Annie Elise
Appearances
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
We always hear about relationship red flags, right? It's something we always talk about over here on the podcast. The warning signs to avoid, what to look for. But what if we focused more on green flags, the signs of a healthy, supportive relationship?
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Bobby's Baby Powder
Whether it's open communication, feeling safe to be yourself, or having mutual respect, you know, recognizing these green flags, it can be just as important as recognizing the red flags. Therapy can help you identify and nurture those positive traits, not just in others either, but also in yourself.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
It's not just for when things feel overwhelming or stressful, it's about building the skills to create stronger, more fulfilling relationships. And BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy flexible and convenient with access to a network of over 30,000 licensed therapists. And if you ever need to switch, you can do so at any time at no extra cost.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
So discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash AE to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash A-E. So that neighbor wasn't the only person who thought that something weird may have been going on between the two of them. Jennifer's boss at the Denny's diner also said that Derek was just very controlling.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
At one time, he had even tried to convince her to quit her job, all because he didn't want her to work the night shifts. One of Jennifer's co-workers also said that at one point, quote, he wouldn't even let her talk on the phone. He always waited for her outside while she was working. One time, he went storming into the restaurant and he was looking for her, telling her to get outside.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
Jennifer's boss also said that she would come in to work with bruises, and she was announcing that she was finally done, she was going to leave Derek, it was over, all of the things, but then Derek would just come in during one of her shifts. He would make this big show about how sorry he was that he wanted her to take him back. And sadly, she always did.
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And as weird and as socially awkward and honestly arrogant as Derek could be, Jennifer, for whatever reason, still loved him. She wanted to make things work. So that was her life, as near as we can tell.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
But it also wasn't hard for people to figure out that things weren't great in their relationship, not only because of what Jennifer would say and the way she was when she would come into work, but Derek was definitely an oversharer, which I think we've established pretty well by now.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
But his social media was full of all kinds of, like, gripes and complaints, things that he probably should have just kept to himself. And one time, he even wrote some really nasty stuff about Jennifer on Facebook. Now, this was during the first time they were married, before they got divorced, before they got remarried. And they were separated at this time.
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And clearly, Derek was not taking it very well. Because in his post, he went on and on just about how terrible of a person she was. He also didn't change any of his privacy settings so that he would only make this post visible to like, you know, a few trusted friends or family members or anything like that. I mean, it was public. Everyone could see what he wrote.
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All of Jennifer's friends, all of her family, her co-workers, you name it. And Jennifer wasn't the only person that Derek would do this to. Anytime one of his friends or even one of his acquaintances did something that just in the slightest annoyed him or bothered him, he would make this huge public show about how badly he had been wronged, how he was just such a victim.
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And I don't mean like a picture from happier times with a message like, you know, rest in peace, I love you or something like that. I mean a photo of their spouse who was literally alive this morning and then posting an image of the fresh corpse of their spouse. Pretty disturbing, right? Then, a few seconds after that post, they post something else.
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And then came the death threats. One time, Derek even wrote on someone's page that he was going to kill them, just straight up threaten them in a very public setting on a public forum. But according to Derek's post, this threat was justified because, as he put it, quote, they weren't real friends. Which, that absolutely makes no sense. You can't threaten someone whether they are a friend or not.
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It makes no sense, right? But it gets even worse. According to an old friend of Derek's, he once even pulled a gun on a woman at a concert, all because she accidentally spilled a beer near him. Seriously, she spilled a beer, which is, yes, annoying for sure, but clearly it was an accident. She didn't decide to, like, dump it over his head intentionally or even, like, throw it at him.
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But even if it was on purpose, that certainly isn't a life-or-death situation. But still, Derek's reaction to all of this was to draw a gun and aim it directly at her. He also had a long, disturbing history of stalking. He was in an adult softball league, and for whatever reason, he felt like because of that, he needed to keep tabs on all of his teammates. Seriously, on an adult softball league.
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He literally would hide in the bushes at places where he knew they were going to be. Then he would record them in secret, without them noticing, and he would start posting these videos online. Now, I don't know if that could be – I'm not a psychologist, so, guys, I really don't know. But I don't know if that could be considered, like, some type of voyeurism or if that's, like, some sort of fetish.
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But, like – or if it's just creepy and he's just, like, stalking these people because he wants to intimidate them. But adult softball league and you're hiding in the bushes – recording your teammates, not at the game, at private places that they go to, and then you're posting those videos online, that's really unsettling and pretty scary.
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So all to say, Derek was kind of just like a weirdo through and through. And that's why people were so unsure about how to act when he posted that picture of Jennifer and her body on Facebook saying she had died. They were like, is this real? He posts a lot of bizarre stuff all the time. Do we take this at face value? What's really going on here?
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However, given his history of violence against her, plus a whole bunch of other people that he knew, it did seem possible that he might have killed her, and maybe now was bragging about it, like he bragged about everything else in his life. But like I said, it seemed equally likely that this was all maybe a hoax or a prank, because that was also very much the kind of thing that Derek would do.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
Well, ultimately, it wouldn't take long to figure out the truth. Shortly after he put that post on Facebook, Derek and his father went to the police department. And once he was there, Derek confessed to killing Jennifer. Now, unfortunately, the quality of the interrogation, it isn't great, and it's a little bit difficult to hear what Derek is saying.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
But according to him, he says that this whole thing was self-defense. See, Derek said that when Jennifer woke up that morning, she was extremely angry because he didn't wake her up earlier. She had overslept, and because of that, she, according to him, blamed Derek.
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Apparently, they had been planning to spend the day getting some quality time in as a couple, just really, you know, having the day together, enjoying each other's company, and they were even going to watch a movie together. But now, because she overslept, it was too late for that. A big chunk of the morning had passed, and Jennifer had, you know, slept through it.
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This time, it's a status update telling everybody, just proudly announcing they were the ones who killed them. And even more than that, that now they're going to jail. Well, in 2013, this exact scenario happened to the people who knew Derek Medina and Jennifer Alfonso.
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So he says that she was angry at him because she felt like, in general, he didn't value their relationship. that he wasn't doing the work to keep things good and keep things happy between the two of them. And the fact that he let her sleep in so late just seemed like one more piece of evidence to support that idea. Again, according to Derek.
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So according to him, Jennifer was pissed, and he says he was just defending himself. Which I would imagine that his stance was that, you know, if it was so important to Jennifer to get up early that she should have set an alarm. But for whatever reason, they were both angry. And before long, they were fighting. They went back and forth between their bedroom upstairs and the kitchen downstairs.
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And at one point during the fight, according to Derek, she grabbed a tube of mascara and some towels and then threw them at him. So to defend himself, he grabbed a gun. which let me just kind of level set that one more time.
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He says she grabbed a tube of mascara, which to any men listening who don't understand what that looks like or the size of it, it is literally like the length of a ballpoint pen and the width of maybe, I don't know, between a dime and a quarter, depending on the brand. And it's plastic. So grabbing that and some towels, to me at least, doesn't necessarily compute with such a danger
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that you would need to grab a gun to protect yourself. Literally, I could throw my entire phone at me right now that weighs more than mascara. And like, it wouldn't justify grabbing a gun, obviously. And that's such a freaking stupid comparison. But like, I didn't know what else to come up with off at the top of my head. But like, that's what he says.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
She grabbed the towels and the mascara to throw at him, or she did throw them at him. And so he picked up his gun and aimed it at her. Because that math maths, apparently. Now when he did this and picked up the gun, I guess Jennifer didn't really take him seriously. She didn't actually feel threatened, even when she saw that he was now armed.
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So according to what he said in his confession, she started making fun of him, almost kind of like taunting him, being like, you're not going to kill me, you're not going to kill me, like relax, calm down guy. But then she turned her back on him.
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Again, acting almost like she didn't take him seriously, thinking that he was actually a threat to her or that it should be anything for her to be worried about. So she went downstairs and Derek went down after her. However, he says he left the gun upstairs. He actually put it away at this point inside the closet.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
So they made it all the way to the kitchen where then he says Jennifer pulled a knife out on him. Again, this is according to Derek. He said that he struggled with her to get the knife away from her. Then when he did get the knife away from her, he put it inside the kitchen drawer. He was trying to be safe, you know, in theory. But then he did the least safe thing that he could do.
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He went back upstairs and he grabbed his gun again. He said that when he got downstairs again and Jennifer saw that he was once again armed, she began punching him. So again, in a move that to me feels like a huge overreaction, he quote unquote defended himself from her punches by shooting her.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
On August 8th at 11.11 a.m., Derek posted on his Facebook profile saying, quote, I'm going to prison or death sentence for killing my wife. Love you guys. Miss you guys. Take care. Facebook people, you'll see me in the news. I mean, pretty unbelievable, right? And a little like nonchalant.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
Now, that's not to say that if somebody is punching you and attacking you, you shouldn't shoot them in self-defense if the attack is, like, super severe. Of course, I'm not trying to, like, give her a pass because she's a female. But what I mean by that is that, remember, he had boasted and bragged about how he was this professional fighter, he was a professional boxer, all of these things, and...
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Meanwhile, she was kind of more of like this timid, meek woman. So again, I don't know what happened. Like, truthfully, I wasn't there.
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But you would think that if he was like this trained fighter and his wife was kind of just like throwing these punches at him, that he could have either restrained her, gotten away from her, done something to diffuse the situation aside from grabbing a gun and shooting her to try to, quote, protect himself. Again, though, I wasn't there. Those are just my thoughts. I could totally be wrong.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
Tell me what you guys think. Now, according to Derek, Jennifer had been hitting him in the arms and all around the chest area. That's what apparently had him feeling so scared for his life, so frightened that he had no choice but to fatally shoot her at point-blank range. And if you're kind of like me and you're not really buying it, you're not alone.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
The police also felt like this, you know, in shape, buff, fit, adult man, an alleged professional boxer, mind you, should have been able to handle a few slaps from his wife without needing to kill her. So they pushed back on what he was saying, and he kind of then just started flopping back and forth.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
First he said that he wasn't worried that she was going to seriously injure him, but then he said that he actually was worried. Which, mind you, he already had said that when Jennifer threatened him with the knife, he was able to get that knife away from her and put it back inside the kitchen drawer. So it was hard to believe that he really did have any reason to be afraid of her after that.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
He already had disarmed her once while, mind you, she had a weapon with her. He was able to overpower her then, so why wasn't he able to overpower her now that she didn't have a weapon? Now, according to Derek, for a while before this fight, Jennifer had wanted to take her own life.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
Again, according to Derek, he made it sound like that was a factor in why he shot her too, because she was so reckless, she didn't even care who she hurt during the fight. If it was herself or someone else, she wouldn't care, so that's why he did it.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
And he tried to make it sound like she attacked him with the knowledge that she wouldn't stop until she was dead, that she didn't give Derek any choice in the matter. Now, I will say a lot of Jennifer's friends and family members have pushed back against that explanation. They've said that, of course, Jennifer didn't want to die. She was overall a happy person.
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She loved her daughter, and she certainly would never leave her behind. But sadly, there are cases where people do a very good job of hiding their emotional problems. People can be happy and love their family, but still end up taking their own life. But there were a lot of other reasons to not really believe Derek or take him at face value.
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I mean, besides the fact that he was weird and kind of always telling these crazy lies, he had also just shot Jennifer to death. So he had a motive to want to make himself look good in all of that. I mean, besides everything else.
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Derek was also claiming that Jennifer had been abusive toward him while she was still alive, which I gotta say is pretty rich given that she was the one who would show up to work with bruises and was acting scared enough that the neighbors even noticed.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
I mean, if I read that from somebody that I knew very well, I would maybe think that this was all some sort of like weird joke. Maybe they were saying like, oh, my husband or my wife like left the dishes out again or something like that. Like I'm going to jail now because I'm going to kill him or like.
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And of course, when the police asked him if he had any evidence of this alleged past abuse that was against him, Derek couldn't come up with anything. He had never filed any reports in the past, never had taken any photos, and that doesn't necessarily say it did or didn't happen one way or another, But there wasn't any evidence to prove or, you know, bolster his claims.
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So anyway, whatever you believe, Derek made it sound like he had absolutely no choice but to kill Jennifer. He was just in a bad situation. And after he did it, he acted very calm and very collected. Not like how you would expect if this really was, you know, some unforeseeable but sadly necessary moment in self-defense, something that you had to do.
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In fact, he changed into some clean, fresh clothes. He left the condo and walked right out the front door. But there's one other person who we haven't talked about yet in any of this. Jennifer's 10-year-old daughter, Isabel. Because she was there. Today's episode is brought to you by Ollie.
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Even though I get it, like, that's not really that funny because there's unfortunately so much truth in cases that lie beneath that. But, you know, maybe people would see that and think it's a joke, not so serious. But it was clear that Derek was not joking at all. Because then, just a few seconds later, he posted a photo of his wife Jennifer with the caption, "'Rest in peace, Jennifer Alfonso.'"
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise, your true crime bestie, and I am here to break down another case for you. Now, if you've been listening to me for a while, you know what I love more than anything.
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That's code AE50OFF at factormeals.com slash AE50OFF to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Now, this is just awful, but when Derek left the murder scene, he also left Jennifer's 10-year-old daughter, Isabel, home alone. Isabel was home the whole day when her mother was shot to death.
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She was there for the fight, she was there for Jennifer's murder, and then she was there with Jennifer's corpse just lying there and no other adult around. Apparently, before he left, Derek told Isabel to not go downstairs, which sounds to me like the absolute, honestly, like bare minimum that you could do to try to protect her and shield her from that trauma.
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But he said, you know, don't come downstairs. He left and he went to a relative's house. And then when he did that, he told his family what happened. Now again, this was all according to Derek and according to his confession, but I'm going to say right now that the story doesn't really fit the timeline of what we know to be true.
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Bobby's Baby Powder
See, Derek said that he shot Jennifer early that morning at around 7.30 or 8 a.m., but he didn't go to the police station until closer to 11.30. So to hear him tell it, he killed her and he confessed to what he had done to his family right away. But then for whatever reason, it still took three and a half or four hours for him to come clean to the authorities.
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And that whole time, Isabel was still home alone. No one was watching her, nobody was taking care of her, let alone protecting her from the sight of her mother's dead body. Now I do wonder, and this is only speculation, but I think it is worth throwing it out there, But maybe his family didn't believe it when Derek told them what he had done.
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Now, in this photo, she was wearing black leggings, pink socks, and she was kind of like sprawled on the ground with her legs bent underneath her. There was also blood everywhere, and it looked like she had been shot. Even though it would be absurd to post somebody's corpse, I could maybe cut it.
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Maybe they were just as confused by his erratic behavior as everybody else. And it's possible that when he said he had murdered Jennifer, they just kind of shrugged it off as him lying or just another one of his, you know, bizarre moments. Kind of like the exact same reaction all those people had on Facebook.
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And speaking of Facebook, by the time Derek gave his confession, the police knew what he had posted online. They knew he had confessed already to the entire world. And naturally, they wanted to know why he did that. According to Derek, he did this to notify Jennifer's family. He wanted them to know that she was dead and also that he had done it.
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He also wanted to set the record straight and to make sure that the world knew his version of why he committed the murder before the story could be spun in the media.
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Now, I'll just say, I don't think there's ever a good way to tell someone that you have murdered a person that they love, but I could think of about a million different ways that are better than posting a picture of a crime scene on Facebook, along with some, you know, unhinged rant coupled next to it.
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But either way, the police were now in a really weird position, because on one hand, Derek had come into the station, and he had confessed, right? I mean, he straight up admitted that he had killed Jennifer, and he even had shared that proof of it on Facebook. But he was also trying to make it sound like it was self-defense.
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So they knew that if they wanted to know the real story, they needed to go to the crime scene for themselves. They needed to gather evidence. Not to mention that Jennifer's daughter was still there, unattended. So of course, the officers also had to make sure that she was okay and taken care of. So once they got to the condo, the police found Isabel in her room upstairs.
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She was huddled in her bed under a blanket. She told them that she hadn't heard any gunshots, but she did hear her mom and Derek fighting. And then she said she heard some banging in the kitchen afterward. She just assumed that either Derek or Jennifer was maybe throwing something and the noise was the crash of something heavy landing somewhere.
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It hadn't even occurred to her that it could have been a gun. She also said that Derek had told her to stay inside her room, so that's what she had been doing all morning. She listened to him. She never went downstairs. The whole time, those hours that she had been there alone, she just stayed in her room.
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She also hadn't seen anything around the crime scene, which I've got to just say is a blessing. So the police, of course, wanted to keep it that way. They still wanted to protect her from seeing her mom's body. But this was going to be a problem, because they would have to go past the kitchen to get from her bedroom and out the door.
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So one officer stood in the doorway trying to block the scene, while another one wrapped Isabel in a blanket and carried her down the stairs and out of the house. As for the actual scene in the kitchen, it was clear right away that Jennifer had died of multiple gunshot wounds. That right there was pretty clear evidence that this was definitely not self-defense.
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kind of imagine if maybe somebody like passed away in their sleep and so they looked nice and peaceful they were in their bed they were cozy and somebody like posted and said rest in peace even that's kind of weird if I'm going to be honest but like I could maybe give a little bit of leeway to understand that but This was not bad. This was the complete opposite of that.
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I mean, there was no way that Derek was in so much danger that he needed to shoot her multiple times. Several of those wounds were on her left forearm, one was in her chin, and she had another bullet wound near her ribs. It was later determined by the medical examiner that Jennifer was shot at point-blank range,
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and that she had likely been using her arm as a shield before she was shot, which explains the bullet hole in her arm. The investigators also found three guns, ammo, and the knife that Jennifer had supposedly gone after Derek with. So they took all of those items as evidence. And they also found something that would really help them get to the heart of how this murder had happened.
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because they found security camera footage. The good news was that this house had multiple security cameras, not just on the outside, but on the inside too. One camera was pointed toward the front door, and another one filmed the kitchen door and part of the kitchen sink.
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Unfortunately, it was set up to only film a part of the kitchen, not the whole room, so when the police watched the footage, they didn't see the fight that led up to the actual shooting. They did see Jennifer walking around on the first floor starting around 7.30am. She was crying, she grabbed some tissue to wipe her face.
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The assumption is that she was down there midway through the fight, and Derek had said in his confession that the fight had began upstairs and then they went downstairs. And given how upset Jennifer looked in this footage, the police figure that that was true, that Jennifer had a fight with Derek upstairs and then she went downstairs where she was filmed crying.
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At one point, Jennifer walked to the front door and she opened it and then closed it right away. Now, this would have triggered the alarm. So the police's theory was that she opened and closed the door to get his attention because Derek was still upstairs at this time. And I guess Jennifer wanted to keep talking to him.
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So she pretended like she was leaving to get him to come down and confront her. Like if he heard the alarm, he'd be like, no, you're not leaving. I want to still talk to you. And he would run downstairs. So while she was waiting for him to come down, Jennifer then went to the kitchen and started making breakfast and washing some dishes. Eventually, Derek walked in and they started fighting again.
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Derek then went back and forth between upstairs and downstairs again, just like what he said in his confession. He was down in the kitchen, then he left, then he came back again. At one point, Jennifer hit Derek and he went upstairs again. Now, I'm guessing that that's when he grabbed the gun, because when he came down again, that's when he shot Jennifer.
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Which does, again, match with Derek's confession. I mean, sort of. He said that he had to kill Jennifer in self-defense because she was hitting him. And she was hitting him. But not at the moment that he shot her. He removed himself from the situation. He got to safety and went upstairs. But then, that's when he decided to open the closet and get the gun out again.
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I mean, there were so many steps he took. Getting upstairs, opening the closet, taking out the gun, walking back downstairs. At any point, he could have just left. Jennifer didn't follow him up the stairs. He was never in any danger. But still, he coolly, calmly, and purposefully took the gun back downstairs. He walked into the kitchen where Jennifer was, and he shot her over and over again.
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She was literally on the ground, her body kind of like spread out weird, blood everywhere, and it looked very clear as day that she had been shot. And Derek posted this photo in two places. One, his own Facebook page, and then the other on Jennifer's personal page. Now, as you can imagine, everyone who saw this and commented on it was just like in complete shock, disbelief, disgust.
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A little while later after the shooting, the footage also showed Derek walking out the front door wearing a different set of clothes. So that was enough to charge Derek with murder, also with illegally firing a weapon inside a dwelling, and child neglect.
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During his bond hearing, he pled not guilty to the murder and child neglect charges, but he didn't enter a plea for the illegally firing a weapon charge, and he was denied bond. His trial was set for 2015. By that time, Derek still said though that he was innocent, and surprisingly enough, his family stood by him. They said he was innocent too. And was he?
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Was there going to be some sort of Hail Mary that would prove this really was self-defense? He was innocent, and he would get off scot-free? Well, there's still a lot we need to talk about. Okay, I'm just going to be real with you guys. I don't know if you've seen the movie The Substance or if you saw everything that's going on with like Lindsay Lohan's glow up and Christina Aguilera and all that.
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That's S-O-N-O-B-E-L-L-O dot com slash A-E. So Derek's family is standing behind him, and Derek's father made a statement to the news reporters about Derek and Jennifer's marriage, saying, He reported to me that she always beat him up. As a man, he didn't want to tell too many people because it's a manly thing. They're making my son out to be a monster, and it was the other way around.
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She pushed him to the point of insanity. Meanwhile, as you can imagine, Jennifer's family was just in absolute shambles.
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Jennifer's daughter, Isabel, was really struggling as well. I mean, not only was she dealing with the death of her mom, but she also felt a lot of guilt. She blamed herself for listening to Derek when he told her to just stay inside her bedroom.
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Apparently, Isabel thought that it might have been possible to get Jennifer help or even maybe save her life if she had called 911 at some point in those first four hours. And since she didn't do that, she felt like she was partially responsible for her mom's death. And I know, if you're thinking, not at all, not at all, Annie, like, that poor girl, you're right. It's absolutely not logical.
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But she was just 10 years old. That would be a lot for even a grown adult to deal with. So imagine a 10-year-old and, you know, your mother. Of course she's going to be reeling at any possible outcome. And what could I have done? What could I have done differently? It's just heartbreaking. Well, I should say it's heartbreaking to most, not all.
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Because when Derek heard about how Isabel was struggling, his reaction was typically self-centered and self-serving.
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And a lot of people were asking what happened, kind of suggesting that this photo wasn't real. Like, what's going on here? Again, people thought that it was just some very odd, very weird, very insensitive prank.
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In the lead up to his trial, Derek had to appear in court multiple times. And each time that he would show up before the judge, he looked rougher than he had before. He grew out his hair really long. He also had this really long beard. And in one hearing, Derek kept trying to interrupt the judge. It was bad enough that eventually the judge threw him out of the court entirely.
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Derek's trial began in November of 2015, and by this point, he had shaved, he had cut his hair, and he looked a lot more presentable. The prosecution argued that Derek wasn't abused, he didn't act in self-defense, and there was no way that Jennifer could have seriously hurt him or overpowered him. and they argued that Derek killed Jennifer because she was threatening to leave him.
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Once and for all, she was going to be out, and he was not about to let that happen. 25-0.
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So for five hours, this photo was shared over 100 times before Facebook finally stepped in, or maybe it was reported so many times, I'm not really sure, but they eventually took it down and then they also disabled Derek's profile. But still, everybody was just blown away. I mean, everyone was confused, trying to figure out, is it real? What happened? How could all of this happen?
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The defense argued that Derek was not guilty because he had shot Jennifer in self-defense. He was in an abusive relationship, he had been suffering from abuse for years, and now he finally stood up for himself. They claimed that Jennifer was a drug addict who worshipped Satan. Which, I gotta say, so far as out there defenses go, this one is pretty close to the top of the list.
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Now, they did say that they had proof that she used drugs, but they weren't allowed to introduce this, quote, proof into evidence. And as for that supposed Satan worshipping, their main argument for that was that Jennifer was into horror and dark things, and that apparently meant that she was into devil worship. That was it.
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What's going on here? Now see, Derek and Jennifer had been married for a few years at this point. They both lived in South Miami in an area known for, honestly, it's great neighborhoods. They have historic buildings, a lot of parks. It's truly beautiful. And they had met sometime before 2010. Now, at the time that they met, Jennifer was a waitress at the Diner Denny's.
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That was literally all of their evidence, which I could say, if we were going off of that alone, I would say anybody listening to true crime worship Satan, if that's the rule, like if you're into dark things or if you're curious about dark things, but that was it. That's their argument and that's what they were going with.
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They also read from Jennifer's journal to try to show that she was the violent one, that she was the dangerous one. One of the entries that they read, she had written, I love him. I just wish we had a better way of showing it. When we love each other, it's great, but when we hate each other, we hate each other. Derek told me that I'm never happy for him in anything and everything.
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I've had my fair share of crazy bitch moments, like when I thought he was having an affair and he didn't even do anything. I just find myself uncontrollably jealous, like try to murder type of deal. So with that, they were really trying to create this story that Jennifer had violent tendencies.
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But overall, the defense mostly focused on the theory that Jennifer was coming at Derek with a knife, and because of that, he was just acting in self-defense. And in fairness, in one of the CCTV clips from the day of the murder, you can see a glimpse of Jennifer holding a knife in the kitchen. But also you have to remember that she was making breakfast when he came down and confronted her.
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There were plenty of non-dangerous reasons that she would have a kitchen knife while she was preparing food or washing the dishes. Also, Derek said that he took the knife from Jennifer before he killed her. He grabbed the knife, he put it away inside the drawer, then he shot her. And when the police searched the house, they found that knife inside the drawer.
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It wasn't on the floor where it would have been if she maybe had it in her hands and was attacking him when she got shot. Derek also claimed that after he shot Jennifer, she still kept trying to punch him. So because of that, he had to shoot her a few more times. But a medical expert testified that this wasn't even possible.
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The bullet that hit Jennifer's arm would have made it impossible for her to throw a punch. The medical professional also testified that it was highly likely that Jennifer was on her knees in a very submissive defensive position when the shooting occurred. This was based on the trajectory of the bullet and where the gunshot residue ended up settling on her body.
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So they say Derek was standing over Jennifer while she was kneeling, not while she was hitting him. That would also explain why her body was found in this like slumped over position. I mean, imagine if you were on your knees and then you fell backward from that position. You would land pretty similar to how Jennifer's body was positioned when it was found, right?
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Plus, according to one detective who also took the stand, there were no injuries on Derek's body. No sign that he had been in any kind of fight or in any kind of danger. He also said that in the days after Derek's arrest, they found him picking at his skin. It came across like he was almost trying to create injuries so that it would look like Jennifer had hit him or scratched him.
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Derek never testified during the trial, which in total lasted three weeks. Ultimately, the jury found him guilty of second-degree murder, as well as child neglect and illegally firing the gun. During his sentencing hearing, Jennifer's family asked the judge to send Derek to prison for the rest of his life. And Derek, well, of course, he had his thoughts about that.
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You know the one, the Grand Slam. For me, it's Moons Over Miami. But she worked there, and she worked the graveyard shift. And almost every day of the week, Jennifer would be there waiting tables from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m., And let me just tell you, she was a great waitress. I mean, she was always friendly, no matter how tired, how exhausted she was, or how stressed out she was.
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And she had a lot of regulars, people who came in during her shift just to see her, whether they were truck drivers working the night shift, whether they were people who stay out late partying, whatever it was, she definitely had like a core group of regulars. And seriously, these people didn't necessarily go to Denny's for the food, but they went there to see Jennifer.
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In the end, the judge sentenced Derek to life in prison. He will be eligible for parole after 25 years. Then in 2018, Derek tried to appeal based on a few reasons. His first argument had to do with the defense's claim that Jennifer was a drug addict, because you'll remember that they said that they had proof of this alleged addiction, but they weren't allowed to admit it into the court.
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The actual evidence, if you can even call it that, was that two months after Derek's arrest, investigators found a pill bottle full of bath salts. So the argument was that during the fight, when Derek shot her, Jennifer was high on bath salts, and then because of that, it sent her into a violent rage.
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The evidence was considered inadmissible because nobody could prove that these bath salts ever belonged to Jennifer, let alone that she had taken them, especially given that her autopsy showed that there were no drugs in her system at the time of her death. But still, in his appeal, Derek tried to argue that even if Jennifer wasn't on bath salts that day,
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She could have still been on them at other times. She could have been violent and dangerous on other days besides the one when she died. And by refusing to let Derek's lawyers admit those bath salts into evidence, the judge prevented him from being able to demonstrate a pattern of abuse and mistreatment that ultimately led up to the shooting.
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He also supposedly found an expert who claimed that in the security footage of the fight, if you zoomed really close, like super close in, you could see reflections in the stainless steel sink that showed Jennifer attacking him. However, this expert actually wasn't an expert at all. The person had no training and no background that made them seem reliable or trustworthy.
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So, the original decision was fully upheld, and Derek is still in prison today. And whenever he does give an interview, he still says that he is innocent, that he only killed Jennifer in self-defense.
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Now, I've gone into the Reddit threads, and I've seen some other videos and episodes on this case, and there are a lot of conflicting opinions out there. A lot of people think that he really was acting in self-defense and that maybe she was a drug addict, which to me, it just... Those things don't add up. I personally don't believe so. But I am curious to know your thoughts.
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So let me know what you think. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me. I'll be back on the mic with you first thing Thursday morning with headline highlights where we are breaking down everything happening this week in the true crime world. And guys, there is a lot. So make sure to check back on Thursday.
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If you're not following the podcast already, take a quick second, follow along. It's totally free, but that way you will not miss those episodes. All right, guys, thanks again for tuning in. Until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, don't post crazy things on Facebook or pictures of corpses on Facebook, and just be a good human, all right? Seems easy enough, right?
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She was just always happy, always smiling, always telling jokes, and always making people feel comfortable. And one of those regulars who always came in was Derek. Now, he had Jennifer as a waitress one night, and then after that, it was like game over. He just kept going back to see her. And whenever he went to Denny's, he would specifically ask to sit at one of Jennifer's tables.
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And it wasn't just a one-way thing. I mean, she definitely liked seeing him at her work as well. The two of them almost had instant chemistry, so much so that within a few months of meeting one another, they ended up getting married. On their wedding day, Jennifer was 23 years old. She had just had her 23rd birthday a little more than one month earlier, and Derek was 27 years old.
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Now, Jennifer had one daughter from a previous relationship. Her name was Isabel, and her daughter was her absolute pride and joy. I mean, Jennifer doted on her. She was such a great mother.
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You know I love when these criminals are so freaking stupid that they either get caught up because of their Google history, because they're posting on social media and trying to like gloat, maybe they're bragging to a friend. I just love to see it. I love when
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Now, Derek, he didn't have any kids, and unfortunately, from the sound of it, he just didn't have what it took to really step up into Jennifer's life and be a great father and husband like she really needed him to be. So things took a turn for the worse pretty quickly, and the two of them ended up getting divorced in 2012, just a couple of years into their marriage.
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But then a few months later, they actually got married again. Now, I don't know the full details of how all of that happened, but like what factors really made them decide to get a divorce, then get back together, then get married again, you know, right after getting back together. But it does sound like a lot of back and forth.
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Now, I can take an educated guess on what one of those factors was, though, because according to some people, Derek was just a little bit weird. He was constantly posting on Facebook, constantly posting on social media, and just like would not ever let up.
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And I mean, back in 2010, at like the heyday of social media, there were all those people taking photos of like their meals, their plates, every single dish they ate. It was kind of like, this is a brand new thing. We're really excited about it. And everybody was posting everything. I get that. But Derek took it to an extreme.
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On his YouTube channel, he was always uploading videos of himself going out and doing things all over the city. There were videos of him going to Miami Heat basketball games, a few videos of him kickboxing. I mean, just documenting and archiving every moment of his life. He even told people that he was a boxer with a perfect record of 25 wins and no losses.
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He also said that he had gone professional in the boxing space a few years earlier, but I'll be honest, there really isn't a whole lot of evidence out there to back that up. It could be true, or he could have been lying. It's really hard to say.
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But on top of all of that, Derek acted like he was an up-and-coming movie star, and that's because he had appeared in two episodes of the show Burn Notice. Yet, as he appeared in those, he didn't have a speaking part. He was just an extra who was, you know, briefly seen in the background. His name didn't even appear in the credits.
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The first time one of those episodes aired, he ended up posting a video on YouTube saying, quote, Put on USA. I'm coming out on the episode right now. I'm on USA. I'm going to come out soon. This is the episode that I filmed. That's me right there. You saw me? Now, don't get me wrong, okay? There is absolutely zero wrong with being proud of your accomplishments. Certainly not.
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And I can understand where if you're getting a couple parts as an extra, maybe you're like excited that it's going to give you more momentum forward into like some speaking roles, for sure. But this guy, it just to me seemed like he's clearly full of himself. I mean, his accomplishments were yes, fine. Nothing wrong with being on TV or being good at boxing. My husband was a boxer as well.
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Criminals think that they are so smart that they can get away with the perfect crime, that they will never get caught, and then they do something so stupid and so reckless that it really like blows the whole thing up on them. And that's what we're talking about today, particularly with social media coming into the fold. And it's a wild one.
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But he talked everything up like it was much bigger than it really was. And like it was a much bigger deal than it really was. And sure, you could chalk that up to maybe insecurity or lack of self-confidence so he feels like he needs to sell himself, but it kind of ended up becoming a constant thread in his life like that.
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He also had a website called emotionalwriter.com, and there he would complain about the state of the world, and he would act like he was the one who knew all of the answers. He knew how to fix everything. He also presented himself as an expert at communication, and also someone who was apparently really good at giving advice, and that he was practically a marriage counselor.
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Now, I will just say these e-books had the craziest and the longest titles. I'm going to read them for you. One was How I Saved Someone's Life in Marriage and Family Problems Through Communication. Another, If the World Ended Today, How Would You React to Saving the World or Helping the World? Or would it be all over for you?
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Another, just ask yourself why we are living a life full of lies and how I, an emotional writer, made all my professional dreams come true, blocking society's teachings. I'm telling you, these are really long. It's like full statements as a title. Another was, humans who are gifted and can see the supernatural spirit ghost world. We live in called ghost haunted adventures.
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Another, how a judgmental and selfish attitude is destroying the world we live in because the world is vanishing beneath our eyes. And then another, lastly, was attention world, save yourself. Now, like I said, all but that last one, pretty lengthy. It feels more almost like...
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I don't know what another word is for statements, but like it definitely feels more like a thought bubble, not a book title. But, you know, I've never written a book, so what the hell do I know?
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But the intro of one of these books said, quote, My goal is to instruct on how we need to work together as a team and overcome the negative people destroying our world and how we can battle it with those who are destroying our world. In another book, he also wrote about his experiences with, get this, aliens.
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He also said that people needed to work on a time-traveling machine for what he called, quote, an evacuation plan. Now, I'm not sure what's being evacuated, if people are traveling forward or backward in time to get away from something. I mean, honestly, it just kind of sounds a little bizarre and insane to me, but to each their own.
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But he would go on at length about how, according to him, he even once met a couple in New York and he saved that woman from a ghost. And I'm just going to read one last passage for you here about that. But he says, he was with his wife in New York and his wife was attacked by a ghost. She was seeing a ghost and was being taunted and messed with.
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So I'm going to shut up and we are going to just kind of jump right in.
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I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's true, guys. I don't know. That was just one of his many, many, many accomplishments. I mean, again, assuming you take him at his word. But to hear him tell it, Derek was a ghost hunter, a boxer, a TV star, and a quote, emotional writer, whatever the heck that means. He was also a rapper, which I'm not joking, guys. He really was.
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So like I said, overall, a very strange guy. Not a crime, but I wanted to give you guys some context so that you can kind of understand a little bit more about, like, who Derek is as we get into more of, like, the thick of it. So fast forward, and in 2013, he had a real job. I mean, on top of his alleged ghost hunting, emotional writing, all of that stuff.
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But he was working at a condo as a security supervisor. It's not clear how long he worked there, but reports say that Derek was constantly changing jobs because he just could not hold one down. But in spite of all of that, he still managed to buy a condo in March of 2012. He bought that condo for $107,000. And that also became the condo where he lived with Jennifer.
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Now, according to one of their neighbors, Derek was the self-proclaimed neighborhood watch guy. He liked walking around the block, you know, carrying a concealed gun, acting like he was sort of an unofficial security guard. Nobody had asked him to do it, but he kind of just appointed himself to this position. It was almost like he was trying to be this big, tough security guy.
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So needless to say, Derek had a bit of a reputation. Everyone in his neighborhood knew who he was, you know, by his face, if not his name. But when it came to Jennifer, most of the neighbors really knew nothing about her. Derek was the guy who would walk up to anybody and just strike up a conversation.
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And in fact, according to rumor, he was one of those guys who, once you started talking to him, it was really hard to get him to stop talking. But Jennifer was the opposite. She really just kept to herself. One of their neighbors even said, She never spoke to us. She kind of always stayed behind him, and I never saw any kind of confrontations or violence between them.
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But it gave me the impression that there was something going on in their home, that maybe there wasn't a good relationship there. Which obviously, yes, now in hindsight, we know that they were right, but it gets even stranger than that. All right, parents, let's be real.
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Getting kids to eat their greens or even take their vitamins without a fight ensuing, I mean, for me at least, it's nearly impossible. But that's why I love Hya, because their chewable kids' vitamins are actually good for them. They're zero sugar, no weird gummy junk, and they taste great. My little ones, Emmy and Theo, are obsessed.
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They absolutely loved decorating their bottles, too, with the stickers that come in the first order. Like, they could totally make it their own. Emmy made hers ultra pink with, like, Barbie stickers, the whole nines. Theo, his was yellow. He used, like, little robot stickers. And it was just so, so fun. They even put their names on it. And it was just, like, an unexpected win in the whole battle.
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Like, it got them excited about it, right? So if you're tired of begging your kids to eat their veggies, Hiya also just dropped their Kids Daily Greens and Superfoods. It's a chocolate-flavored greens powder that is packed with over 55 whole food ingredients. You just scoop, shake, and sip with milk or non-dairy options, whatever one you prefer. Now, my kids think that it's a treat.
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the lost that i feel okay so i think we can all agree that whenever we go on social media we expect to see photos of you know friends family maybe some influencers some memes maybe a cute little animal here or there but i want you to just for a moment imagine scrolling through your feed and then seeing that one of your family members posted a photo of their dead spouse
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They think it's chocolate milk. And I love knowing that they're getting all the nutrients that they need. So we've worked out a special deal for you. Get 50% off your first order. Just go to hiahealth.com.ae. That's H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash A-E. This deal isn't on their regular site, though, so grab it while you can. Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
Hey everyone, it's Annie Elise. Now, if you're loving serialously, you need to check out the new podcast, Crime House True Crime Stories. Every Monday, you'll go on an in-depth journey through two of the most notorious true crime cases from that week in history, all connected by a common theme.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
From notorious serial killers to chilling disappearances and tragic murders, Crime House True Crime Stories is bringing you the defining events that shaped true crime, both past and present. Whether it's the Manson family murders, the kidnapping of Patty Hearst, or the thrilling escape of a man known as the Last Great Train Robber, these are stories that you don't want to miss.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
Follow Crime House True Crime Stories, a Crime House Studios original now. New episodes drop every Monday. Again, that's Crime House True Crime Stories. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
And now, I'm excited to share an episode of Crime House True Crime Stories with you now. Check out this episode.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
Lights are going up, snow is falling down, there's a feeling of goodwill around town. It could only mean one thing, McRib is here. People throwing parties, ugly sweaters everywhere, stockings hung up by the chimney with care. It could only
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
Like I said, ever since the Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie thing happened last year, I think people are much more quick to have a keen eye and pay attention and report things. But does that mean that sometimes you're looking too closely and making something out of nothing? I don't know. Now let's move into this next story, and this is a difficult one to hear for sure.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
But on Wednesday, December 4th, a man opened fire inside a elementary school called Feather River Adventist School in Northern California.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
The gunman was 56-year-old Glenn Linton, and right before opening fire, he had taken an Uber to this school, and he actually met with the principal to discuss enrolling his grandson at this school. However, it's speculated that that meeting was just a way for Glenn to gain access to the school. It was all a ruse. And according to school administrators, the meeting was very normal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
Glenn was polite. Nothing seemed out of the normal. However, shortly after the meeting ended, gunshots were heard. and Glenn shot two students outside of a classroom. Six-year-old Roman Mendez was shot twice, and five-year-old Elias Wolford was shot once. Then Glenn turned the gun on himself, and he took his own life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
Other students at the school were kept in the school's gym until the buses arrived and then transported them to a nearby church. The boys were immediately taken to the hospital and underwent surgery. They are still alive, but both of them are in critical condition. And as you can imagine, the community is trying to deal with what happened.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
So we're gonna go through all the details of everything we know about Jay-Z. There's also been some updates with the accused assassin of the UnitedHealthcare CEO. A lot of interesting details and a lot of interesting backstory about this guy, if I'm gonna be honest. So we're gonna go through that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
Now, let's talk about the gunman. The gunman, Glenn, apparently had a lot of mental health issues and a very long and lengthy criminal history. He had been charged with things like theft, fraud, forgery, all starting back in the 90s. And in 2003, he was charged with identity theft, and he ended up being sentenced to eight years in prison for that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
He was again convicted of identity theft in 2015 and again in 2016. In 2020, he was arrested and charged with burglary in San Francisco, and he made a court appearance for those charges on November 21st, just weeks before this shooting. At the hearing, he pled not guilty, he was released on bond, and a family member picked him up and brought him back to where he lived in Sacramento.
Serialously with Annie Elise
222: Full Jay-Z Explicit Lawsuit & Details, TikTok Nurse Hannah, CEO Shooter Backstory, Toddler Trapped in Closet and School Shooting
So when the police searched Glenn's home, they found that he had multiple internet searches related to guns, to other explosives, to a lot of disturbing things, and it was quite clear that he was planning some sort of attack using these weapons.
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They also found information that indicated that he targeted the school because it was religious, and that he also had plans to have a similar meeting with a principal at a different school nearby, and that the attack was all in response to the U.S. 's involvement in the Middle East. I mean, who opens fire on a kindergarten class and an elementary school? I don't know the answer to that.
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A monster is all I can think about, but I'm thankful that at this point those boys have survived, and...
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I don't know.
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My heart is just, it's really heavy. It's really scary. The school system is so, so scary. Now let's talk about the UnitedHealthcare update and what's going on here, because it seems like more information has been trickling in day by day. But now even more information has come out regarding the shooting of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson.
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Since the shooting, multiple images of the suspected gunman have been circulating online, and the images are from various security cameras all around New York City. They show the man in a dark jacket, a hoodie, a face mask, and because of the face mask, the majority of his face was obscured, aside from his dark eyes and dark, thick eyebrows.
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However, there was one image of him with the mask pulled down, and this image started circulating, and in fact, it went viral, and it showed a young white male with a sharp nose and a very wide smile. And this image went pretty viral immediately, and there were a lot of lookalikes to this guy too, so...
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There's also this case that so many of you guys have been requesting me to talk about, and you've been tagging me in all of these videos, and it's about... It's this TikTok situation. People are calling it the Nurse Hannah situation. It is very reminiscent of Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt in a way. We have just got so, so much to talk about. So let's actually start with that story now.
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like not to make light of it, but on TikTok, so many people who looked like him were making like spoof videos, almost like their parents yelling at them saying, you can't wear that jacket out of the house, put that backpack off, like don't wear your hood up, like all of these things because these then strangers who were not related were being accused of being this guy because there was such a close resemblance.
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Now, in everything, it was also revealed that the police suspected that the gunman arrived in NYC in late November and then arrived on a bus which originally left from Atlanta. However, it isn't clear if he actually got on the bus in Atlanta or if he got on in another city that was along the bus route. Who really knows? They don't know yet.
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But the police also suspected that he was staying at a hostel in the Upper West Side under a fake name and that he left New York City on a Greyhound bus right after the shooting. Now, it was reported that at the crime scene, police found bullet casings that were engraved with the words deny, defend, and depose.
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It's suspected that these words are a reference to a book that was published in 2010 titled Delay, Deny, Defend, Why Insurance Companies Don't Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It. The book claims that delay, deny, and defend are tactics that health care insurance companies purposefully use to avoid paying insurance claims.
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Police also found a water bottle and a cell phone at the scene, which they believe belonged to the suspect. They also found a backpack that was dumped in Central Park that matched the one that the gunman was wearing in the CCTV footage. The backpack didn't have a gun in it like the police had hoped, but it had a Tommy Hilfiger jacket and a bunch of Monopoly money inside, like the board game money.
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Super weird, right? It's obviously a very strange thing to have in your backpack, especially after committing a crime like this. However, crime analysts believe that the suspect did this so that they could play games with the police.
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and that they may have done this for some sort of political messaging about wealthy individuals and this economy, as though only wealthy can pay for health care and for things like that and don't need the claims to go through. And what are they supposed to pay with? Monopoly money? Things like that.
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So in a surprising turn of events, this Monday, the police detained a 26-year-old man in connection with the shooting. And this man's name is Luigi Maggioni. So, Luigi was arrested in Altoona, Pennsylvania after getting off a Greyhound bus and going into a McDonald's nearby.
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There, a customer actually thought that he looked a lot like the suspect in the photos that the police released, and they notified a McDonald's employee, who then called the police. When he was arrested, he had multiple fake IDs in his possession, including one which matched the name of the suspect that was used at the hostel on the Upper West Side. He also had a 3D printed gun silencer.
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He had what was referred to as a ghost gun, which is just a homemade gun, and this ghost gun was also a 3D printed gun that was capable of shooting the same type of bullets that were found at the crime scene. And he also had a three-page handwritten manifesto where he was criticizing the health insurance industry and corporate America.
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Apparently, he also had $8,000 in cash, $2,000 in foreign currency, his passport, and a Faraday bag. And a Faraday bag is a bag which you can put electronic devices into, and then the bag blocks any electromagnetic signals from entering or exiting the devices. So it's supposed to prevent from data stealing and from hacking.
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Luigi appeared in court in Pennsylvania, and when discussing bail, the prosecution brought up these items, the money, the passport, the bag, and they argued that it seemed like he was trying to flee.
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So again, this is about a TikTok nurse who is now facing child abuse allegations. And when Ruby, Frankie, and Jodi Hildebrandt were arrested for child abuse, I feel like it shocked a lot of people, but for others, it really wasn't a surprise at all.
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However, Luigi, who stayed relatively stoic throughout this entire hearing, said that the money was planted, that he didn't know how it got there, and that the bag wasn't a Faraday bag, it was just a waterproof bag. Now let's talk about Luigi because Luigi was born and raised in Maryland and he had a pretty nice upbringing.
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In 2016, he graduated as the valedictorian from a very prestigious prep school in Baltimore. I believe it was like $40,000 a year to go to that high school. His family is very wealthy. They have a very prominent real estate business in the area too. And so he certainly had a nice upbringing.
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Then in 2020, he graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a bachelor and master's degree in computer science, also a minor in mathematics. His last known address was in Honolulu, Hawaii, and he has no criminal history and he was never even a suspect until his arrest in Pennsylvania.
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So at a court hearing, he mentioned that he had worked as a data engineer for three years up until a year ago. He also said that he has no drug or mental health problems. His family has released a statement saying that they are completely shocked by what he has been alleged of doing. Many of his friends have also come out saying that they just can't believe it.
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To them, he was always friendly, sociable, and, well... Now, Luigi has a fairly prominent online presence. He has a Goodreads account, which is now private, where he posted about the hundreds of books that he's read. And he also posted a really good review for a book that was, like, tied to the Unabomber.
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He posted quite frequently also on X, formerly known as Twitter, all until this summer, when then his post just suddenly stopped. This fall, a few friends of his posted concerning statements on his profile wondering where he went since he just stopped posting so suddenly. And one friend posted, "'Nobody has heard from you in months, and apparently your family is looking for you.'"
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Another posted, "'I don't know if you are okay.'" Now, as people do, they scour the internet, and people have also found a Reddit account that seems to belong to Luigi. However, it hasn't been confirmed. But on this account, the user writes about health issues like back problems, Lyme disease, and brain fog.
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The user also wrote that they are frustrated because of the lack of understanding from doctors, which kind of begs the question, if this account really belongs to him, could this be linked to a motive? Did he have health issues? Did he not receive adequate care? Did he decide to take out his frustrations?
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Ruby had built her social media presence around sharing her family's life, and over the years, viewers were pointing out a ton of different red flags along the way. Red flags, particularly, that hinted at potential abuse, and this was long before her arrest ever even happened. So now, some are starting to wonder if Hannah Hyatt, a Utah-based TikToker, might be following a similar path.
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I've also heard that he lost two grandparents in the 2010s and that maybe the motive could have stemmed from that and what those situations were. So right after Luigi's arrest, a YouTube video was uploaded under an account with Luigi's name. And the video was titled The Truth. And it was very eerie because it began with a countdown and the words, If you see this, I'm already arrested.
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The video ended with one final message. It said, quote, All is scheduled. Be patient. Bye for now. Now, you know that law enforcement, like, swept in on this, right? So the video has now since been deleted. But many people are convinced that this video is all a part of Luigi's plan, whatever that plan may be.
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However, others are saying that the video is a hoax, that it was uploaded by somebody else, which, how could he post that video if he was in police custody? Sure, he could have scheduled the upload, but how could he schedule it for the exact moment that he was going to be arrested? Some other people think that Luigi is part of a team, and that this hit was all planned out by more than one person.
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There are even rumors circulating that Luigi himself told the McDonald's employee to call the police. However, people are then saying that the cops said that this was all a professional hit, and if it was so professional, why would he do something like get caught, especially in a small town like Pennsylvania with all this evidence on him? I don't really personally know what to believe.
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I'm interested to know your thoughts. But Luigi was denied bail, and he's currently being held in a single cell alone at State Correctional Institution in Huntington, Pennsylvania.
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He's charged with one count of murder, two counts of second-degree criminal possession of a weapon, one count of second-degree possession of a forged document, and one count of third-degree criminal possession of a weapon. So like I said, details are breaking every single day, and so I will definitely keep you updated as we learn more. If you can tell, my voice is a little hoarse.
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I'm still a little bit sick, so I'm going to grab a quick water. We're going to hear from today's sponsor, and then I'm going to be back to talk to you about another case and everything going on with Jay-Z. Is it just me or has TV gotten really complicated?
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I'm either endlessly searching for my favorite shows or I'm subscribing to a dozen different streaming services just to make sure that I can watch everything that I love. And I'm not even saving that much money compared to my old cable bill because of all these subscriptions I've signed up for. But thankfully, Philo has changed all of that for me. It's one service and all of the stuff that I need.
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Philo's got current seasons of all of the shows that I can't miss live on networks, like A&E, MTV, Discovery, and TLC. They have classics like The Office, Martin, and Friends, all these classics which I binge and never get sick of. Plus, they have incredible originals on AMC+, from Mad Men to Orphan Black.
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And don't forget their library of more than 75,000 movies and shows, all of which I can save and rewatch anytime for an entire year. So I never miss a minute of shows that I'm obsessed with, like, hello, Gypsy Rose, Life After Lockup on Lifetime, or now my new binge, The Mean Girl Murders. And best of all, with Philo, you get all of this for just $28 a month.
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No contracts, no hassles, just one subscription and a world of entertainment. So go to philo.tv and check it out for a free seven-day trial. That's philo.tv to start watching.
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Now, Hannah, who is commonly referred to as Nurse Hannah, recently went viral after she posted a video that raised a lot of concern about her treatment of her children. Now, I'm going to describe this video in case you haven't seen it. So in this video, Hannah, her husband, and their two-year-old son are in a grocery store.
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Okay guys, so we're going to get into all the Jay-Z stuff in just a minute, but first I want to talk to you about this case that is happening in Indiana. It is so foul, so disturbing, but we have to talk about it. So in Indiana, two parents were arrested after leaving their two-year-old child to die in a locked closet with a space heater that was turned up to the highest setting.
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On November 27th, police responded to a 911 call about a hurt child. They arrived at the apartment of 21-year-old Cynthia Perez and 23-year-old Jace Hershey. Now, the apartment was filthy, disgusting, foul. Trash was everywhere. There were moldy pots that were in the kitchen. Dishes were piled up in the sink. Cockroaches were crawling everywhere.
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Dirty diapers were scattered all throughout the apartment. And while they were going through this apartment... police found a two-year-old little girl dead lying on a soiled mattress in a crib inside a closet. Police noted that this girl's blankets were disgustingly dirty and that there were feces in the corner of the closet.
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Now, when they picked the girl up and looked at her, they noticed how warm her body was, and they also noticed that she had discolored spots on her head, possibly bruises. So the parents told the officers that they put this little girl, this 2-year-old little girl, in her crib at about 7 p.m. the previous night.
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They then said that they put a space heater on in the closet, turning it up to the highest setting, that they closed the door, and that they didn't check on this little girl until 3 p.m. the next day. That is over 12 hours. Like, you're not checking on her for 20 hours? No.
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So, of course, not surprisingly, right, they said that when they found her, she was unresponsive, and that's what made them call 911. Officers said that there was a notable difference in the temperature between the rest of the apartment and that closet that this little girl was literally kept in, held, you know, trapped in.
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The two-year-old is sitting there in the cart, you know, the top of the cart where their legs are sticking through, and the dad goes and grabs something from the freezer section, then walks back toward the cart. As the dad gets closer to the little boy, the boy flinches and then quickly brings his hands to cover his face in what looks to be a defensive position.
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And an autopsy later showed that her internal body temperature was as high as 109.4 degrees. Now, because her internal body temperature was so high, that's what was the cause of her death.
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The couple was taken into police custody where they remain, and they were charged with felony neglect of a dependent resulting in death, which, thank God, because get this, they had two other children, three and five years old. These kids were absolutely insane. covered in lice, just absolutely filthy, and were taken by the Department of Child Services.
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I mean, it's disgusting that one child had to die in all of this in their filth and their neglect, but I'm very happy that the other two were saved because God knows what would have happened to them. It is so disgusting and monsters like this deserve not only just to be, you know, put in prison with the key thrown away, but... Eye for an eye, right? Lock them in a closet. Trap them in the heat.
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That's my opinion. Like, who does something like that to an innocent two-year-old? Locks them in a closet with a space heater for 20 hours? Are you out of your fucking mind? Sorry. Like, it's just insane. Take a deep breath, Annie, okay? Now let's talk about Jay-Z because this is also freaking insane.
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So we're going to go through everything, the lawsuit, the allegations, some interesting social media activity, and make judgments for yourself. As always, this is all alleged. It is just my opinion. It is just based on things that have been published. Do your own research. Come to your own conclusions. Okay, so get this.
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On Sunday, a civil lawsuit dropped accusing Jay-Z of something truly shocking. He's being accused of sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl, all alongside Diddy, at a party after the 2000 MTV Video Music Awards. Which, yes, you heard that right.
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child sexual abuse a 13 year old girl these allegations are insane and the accuser who goes by jane doe in the legal documents is claiming that all of this happened at a celebrity after party following the award show apparently this lawsuit was originally filed against diddy back in october but now as of sunday jay-z whose real name is sean carter has also been named in this too
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The alleged incident took place on September 7, 2000, after the VMAs at Radio City in New York City. And according to Jane Doe, she managed to convince a limo driver to sneak her into a private party that was filled with celebrities. Which, that's crazy in itself, right? But here's where it gets darker.
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She says that once she got inside the limo, she was asked to sign a NDA, a non-disclosure agreement, although she was only 13 years old. She wasn't totally sure what that even was. Then once she got to the party, which she described as wild, full of drug use, including cocaine, a waitress handed her a drink.
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After drinking it, she started feeling, quote, woozy and lightheaded, and she decided to find a bedroom to lie down. That is when she claims things took a horrifying turn. According to the lawsuit, both Jay-Z and Diddy, along with an unnamed female celebrity, who is referred to as Celebrity B in these documents, barged into the bedroom.
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Jane Doe says that she recognized all three of them instantly. Diddy reportedly had a, quote, crazed look in his eyes. He grabbed her and said to her, quote, you're ready to party. She alleges that Jay-Z held her down and raped her, followed by Diddy, all while this female celebrity just stood there and watched.
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So this clip immediately sparked a lot of controversy online. Many viewers interpreted this little boy's reaction as a sign that maybe he has been hit before in the past, arguing, you know, that kids usually don't flinch like that unless there's a reason. Other parents even started posting their own videos to try and prove that his reaction was not normal.
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Jane Doe says that she fought back, and she managed to surprise Diddy when she was fighting back, who, you know, she was fighting back, he hesitated because of this, he, like, was kind of taken aback and surprised that she was fighting so much, and so because of that, she managed to escape, which, that is so terrifying to even imagine, but it also is very reminiscent of the other allegation that that other female had made about how
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She was inside the room. It was remember after on FaceTime, she said that like she knew he was responsible for Tupac's death. And that's in one of my previous episodes on the Diddy stuff. But she says that she was trapped in a bedroom and then she managed to escape too. But here's where it gets like a gray area and really questionable and what has a lot of people talking.
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People are wondering, who is Celebrity B? Who is that female who was complicit and just watched this all go down? Based on the timeline, since it was the year 2000, some people are speculating that it could be somebody like Kim Porter. Some people are also speculating that it could be Beyonce, because that's apparently the year that she met Jay-Z. However, nothing has been confirmed.
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That's all speculation. I just want to be clear. Now, this lawsuit makes Jay-Z the first big name that has been named besides Diddy to at all be directly accused in this storm of lawsuits that have been filed against Diddy. We've all been wondering who's the first name that's going to drop. Will the names ever drop or are we going to get Epstein where no names are ever dropped?
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And there has been a lot of speculation that Jay-Z was involved in all this, but he never was officially named until now. And now his name is the first one. Both men have denied all of the allegations, but the accusations are obviously pretty heavy. Now, Jay-Z even issued a statement, and he's definitely not holding back.
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He called the lawsuit a blackmail attempt, and he slammed the lawyer Tony Busby, who he says sent him a demand letter trying to get him to settle. So Jay-Z was like, no way, this makes me want to expose you even more. He even went so far as to challenge the accuser to file a criminal charge if the allegations are true, saying that anybody who would do something like that deserves to be locked up.
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He also, in a statement, mentioned how heartbreaking it is for his family, especially since his oldest daughter is at an age where her friends might see the news and start asking questions, which I can't even imagine how that conversation would go. But let me read you his exact statement because it is pretty bold and... It has a lot of people on both sides of the fence, so let me just read it.
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My lawyer received a blackmail attempt called a demand letter from a, quote, lawyer named Tony Busby. What he had calculated was the nature of these allegations and the public scrutiny would make me want to settle. No, sir, it had the opposite effect. It made me want to expose you for the fraud that you are in a very public fashion. So no, I will not give you one red penny."
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These allegations are so heinous in nature that I implore you to file a criminal complaint, not a civil one. Whomever would commit such a crime against a minor should be locked away, wouldn't you agree? These alleged victims would deserve real justice if that were the case. This lawyer, who I have done a bit of research on, seems to have a pattern of these types of theatrics.
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They filmed themselves bringing their hands near their kids' face, showing that their kids did not flinch in that same way. Therefore, the little boy and his reaction was concerning. So Hannah posted a response to the backlash, saying that her son's reaction was because her son and her husband are always, quote, playing and trying to scare one another. Take a listen.
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I have no idea how you come to be such a deplorable human, Mr. Busby, but I promise you I have seen your kind many times over. I'm more than prepared to deal with your type." You claim to be a Marine? Marines are known for their valor. You have neither honor nor dignity. My only heartbreak is for my family.
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My wife and I will have to sit our children down, one of whom is at the age where her friends will surely see the press and ask questions about the nature of these crimes, and we will have to explain the cruelty and greed of people. I mourn yet another loss of innocence. You have made a terrible error in judgment, thinking that all, quote, celebrities are the same." I'm not from your world.
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I'm a young man who made it out of the projects of Brooklyn. We don't play these types of games. We have very strict codes and honor. We protect children. You seem to exploit people for your personal gain. Only your network of conspiracy theorists, fake physics, will believe the idiotic claims you have levied against me, that if not for the seriousness surrounding harm to kids, would be laughable.
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I look forward to showing you just how different I am. So obviously a very powerful and bold statement, right? I mean, digging his heels in, which if you're innocent, I understand why. But a lot of people are kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you had that way too prepared, way too quick.
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And like, you're also not like talking really about the victim in all of this and which her experience was, you're talking more about yourself. But to each their own, you know, if I was being accused of something like that and I was innocent, I would probably have a very bold statement as well. But then there's Tony Busby, the lawyer who's also not backing down.
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So in response to, you know, the military digs that Jay-Z gave, he posted this old photo of himself in a military uniform, basically saying that he's been through worse and that he won't let anyone scare his clients into silence. He's claiming that he's going to keep pushing forward because, in his words, sunlight is the best disinfectant, and I am quite certain the sun is coming.
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He also used a caption on the photo saying that he had faced a, quote, coordinated and aggressive effort to stop him from bringing the case forward, saying, quote, But here's where it gets really wild. Beyonce's mom, Tina Knowles, accidentally, or maybe not so accidentally, liked an Instagram post about the allegations.
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It was a post from ABC7 Chicago with the headline, And so because she liked this post, people are freaking out over it. Some people are saying that it might have been a mistake, while others think that maybe Beyonce's mom Tina might not like Jay-Z because of all that cheating scandal that went down with Beyonce. Remember, like,
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The cheating, the Becky with the good hair, the elevator incident where her sister was like wailing on him, all of these things. So who really knows? But as if all of this wasn't enough, singer M.I.A. also has jumped into this conversation. She's the British singer. She's in her 40s now. She had that one like really big hit where I think it was like, yeah, you get high on planes.
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I'm singing them. Those aren't the words like money planes, airplanes, paper. No. God, I am so musically untalented. I'll just have it. You know, it's like something planes, but okay, whatever. You get what I'm saying. If you don't, you can Google it. Sorry, I thought I would know the words and what to sing, but clearly I don't. So anyway, she's jumped into the conversation as well.
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And just days before this lawsuit became public, she made a claim in a video that when she first signed with Jay-Z's label, Roc Nation, he told her she needed to get plastic surgery, which, can you believe that? She says she refused, but she's implying that the plastic surgery is kind of expected for women who are all around him, and she's not holding back.
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She's saying that not only is the first thing he told me to do is get plastic surgery, but she said, I'm not insecure because I would have gotten plastic surgery if I was. She continued saying, so their argument of she's insecure, that's why she needs to effing massage her ego, it fails, it fails, because you turn around and ask, what women do you know who hasn't had plastic surgery around Jay-Z?
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All of them have. I'm the only one who didn't, which already proves the fact that it's not insecurity. So basically, and I know that was kind of hard to follow, but in a nutshell, she's saying all the women who are around Jay-Z, whether they were signed to his label or in his personal life, she's alleging that they've all had to undergo procedures to look a
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whatever, to, I guess that's it, look a certain way. And that she never would, even though he told her she needed to get plastic surgery, she refused. Then they, I guess, were slandering her, apparently, saying she's super insecure, all these things. And she's like, no, if I was insecure, I would have gotten the plastic surgery. Like, look around.
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But it's just like, again, kind of trying to now expose who Jay-Z really is and what he's really like. Which, honestly, this whole thing is just explosive. I mean, the allegations, the speculation, the responses, there is just so much to unpack. And it's hard to know where this is going to go, but it's definitely not going away anytime soon.
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And like I said, this made Jay-Z the first celebrity to be named alongside Diddy in the one of the many myriad of lawsuits that have been filed against Diddy. Both rappers have denied all allegations, but do your own research, form your own conclusions. and we will be following this closely.
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My guess, and I could be wrong, I thought that we probably wouldn't ever really see many names, especially until we got to the trial, but my guess is now that we've seen one, I think the floodgates are going to open. I think we're going to either hear more names, or I think we're going to get a lot more allegations, a lot more details, and I think the Band-Aid has now been ripped off.
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And I don't know what kind of dark secrets and moldy grossness is in the wound that we are uncovering, but I don't think it's going to be good. So we'll see. And I'm curious to know what you guys think. I know we ran a little bit longer today, but there was a lot to go over, guys. So let me know what you think over on the Q&A section on Spotify.
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Let me know what you think in the review section on Apple. As a reminder, if you need even more content to binge and you feel like you're running out of things at the end of your week, Every Friday, we put a bonus episode out on Patreon, and it also is on Apple Podcasts, so you can get access either through Patreon or through Apple Podcasts.
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But it's an extra bonus episode every single week with an exclusive case. Right now, if you sign up, you can get, I think it's like 70 bonus episodes unlocked. And this week, we are talking about a case that is breaking right now in Florida. It is super shady. It's about a guy who goes to the grocery store with his daughters when he comes back. His wife is found inside the house.
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Horrible circumstances. I'm not going to go into the details. And I'll just say what you think is at the surface is not. So we're unpacking everything, but it is an ongoing case and it's breaking right now. So we're talking about that one Friday, but you can also unlock, you know, 70 plus other bonus episodes that we've talked about.
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And you can do that on Patreon, which I will link in the show notes or through Apple Podcasts directly. All right, guys, thanks again for tuning in. Until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, just get divorced instead of cheating or murdering, and just be an all-around good human. Please, please, it's the holidays. Just be a good human. All right, I'm gonna go.
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I need to go rest my voice, but thanks again. Okay.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly.
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So this response, of course, sparked controversy. People were wondering if her explanation was a good one. Did she seem genuine in the video? But then, as the internet will do, people started digging into the past videos that Hannah posted. And when they did, they found a video where she talked about the controversial ways that she parents.
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One of them being that she thinks spanking her child is helpful for them in the long run.
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Now, to many people, this right here clearly explained why her child was flinching. Could it be that, you know, a little, quote, pat on the bum was actually much more than that? And since this video, like I said, people have been finding more and more content from Hannah that is just equally, if I'm honest, as concerning.
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Hannah also gave birth to a second child a few months ago, and one of her first viral moments was when she posted a video saying that she hadn't seen a doctor, even though at that point she had been 25 weeks pregnant.
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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Today's headline highlights, which means we're going through all the breaking headlines this week. Now, as you're probably noticing, we're releasing this on Wednesday instead of Thursday. Headline highlights usually release every Thursday.
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Now look, I'll be honest, everyone approaches pregnancy in their own way, and each journey is unique to whoever the individual is. However, people found it odd that this woman, who happens to be a nurse by the way, chose not to seek health care for her unborn child.
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This also raised concerns about potential risks, like undetected genetic conditions or other health issues that could go unnoticed without proper medical care. Then, after Hannah gave birth to her child, she posted a video when she was about one month postpartum. And in this video, Hannah goes around and starts picking up all of these dirty diapers in her house.
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Now, people on the internet will always find a reason to troll. Whether it's right, wrong, they're always going to find a reason. So a lot of people were really concerned about her having 17 diapers just lying around on the floor, especially since she also had a crawling two-year-old who could easily get into them. People were suggesting that it seemed very unsanitary.
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The whole thing kind of left people with concern, and I understand why it would leave people a little bit grossed out, but also, at the same time, playing devil's advocate, I have been there with a newborn and a two-and-a-half, three-year-old, and if you're overwhelmed and if there's a lot going on, I could understand how, like, you can't get to everything at any given moment and you can't keep things 100% clean all the time.
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And with that being said, a lot of people in the comments were quick to remind everyone that Hannah was postpartum, that it can be a very difficult time. Your hormones are going wild. You're trying to adjust with life with a newborn. And honestly, sometimes things like cleaning do take a backseat just so that you can, you know, survive the day. However, the controversy just continued.
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But the reason we decided to release it a day early is because not only are these cases, of course, so important to talk about, but they are breaking as we speak. So in an effort to stay as up-to-date as possible with the information, we wanted to deliver this news to you as quickly as possible. We have got so much to go over and it's going to probably be on the longer episode length.
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Hannah has shared a bunch of videos about how she and her husband budget their money, what they spend on, what they skip, how they save. She even has given tips for eating out on a budget, like setting a strict limit for each meal, skipping sodas, skipping desserts, and then packing the leftovers to take home. Nothing out of the ordinary, right? Seems really normal.
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Everybody's budgeting, especially when groceries are a kajillion dollars these days. However, what's not normal, and what a lot of people are taking issue with, is that in some of these videos, Hannah and her husband are sitting at a restaurant, each with a full plate, a full meal in front of them, while their two-year-old son has nothing. He's just sitting there watching them eat.
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And in one video, the boy reaches for one of the french fries, and Hannah's husband just flicks his little hand away. In another video, Hannah and her husband are eating a meal inside their car, and once again, their son has nothing to eat.
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And it's obvious that he's hungry in this video, but instead of giving him a full meal, they just offer him a tiny bite of theirs, telling him that that's all he gets before he takes a nap. So in another video, the little boy asks Hannah to share her drink with him. But when she says no, he seems confused and says, you can't share water?
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So people quickly started to speculate that their idea of saving money when dining out might just be skipping full meals for their child altogether. And it left many people wondering if this was really about budgeting, or if maybe this was a signal that there was some sort of neglect happening of their son's basic needs.
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Now, I will go on to say that in that video of them in the car, not only do they say, you know, that's all you're getting until you take a nap, but they almost say or allude to you shouldn't eat before a nap when, in my experience at least, and every kid's different, but kids tend to sleep better when they have a full stomach. But a lot of people were taking issue.
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And things got even more confusing when Hannah posted a video where she said she didn't want to spend $35 on a winter jacket for her son. And this was right after she mentioned that it was only 8 degrees outside, cold enough that a water bottle had frozen in her car, yet she didn't want to spend $35 on a winter jacket for her son. Take a listen.
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So naturally, people started pointing out some inconsistencies here. They found videos of her spending nearly $20 on a sandwich just for herself or dropping $1,500 on hunting gear for her husband. But when it came time to buying a simple $35 jacket for her two-year-old son when it was freezing cold outside, that was apparently too much.
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So you can really go on and on with all the concerning things in her video and dissect them, every single video that is. I mean, in one, her son touches a hot waffle maker that she placed at the edge of the counter. In another, he falls to the floor from a chair and Hannah just seemed annoyed with him in both of those instances rather than concerned.
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And all of these have raised so many red flags that a lot of people started contacting CPS, especially after that video of her son flinching in the grocery store went viral. So if she was willing to post such troubling content online, people were wondering, what was really happening behind closed doors?
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Now this week, People Magazine reported that the Ogden, Utah Police Department, where Hannah lives, does have an open active investigation into her. A detective has been assigned to the case, but there haven't been any details released about the investigation. Some people were saying that Hannah was arrested. However, those rumors were false.
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I'm just going to warn you right now. We are talking all about the bombshell allegations against Jay-Z that he was not only complicit in some of the Diddy stuff, but also he is now being accused of raping a 13-year-old girl. We're going to be going through the entire full lawsuit, the details where they implicate a woman who was in the room watching. I mean, it's horrific.
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Now, since all of this has happened, Hannah has disabled comments on her TikTok. She has also stopped posting videos altogether. However, she still has been sharing content on her YouTube channel. So we'll see what comes with this. Is it just, you know, people on the internet going too far and reading into every little thing? Or is there something bigger at play here?
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in my opinion probably trying to process what was happening in her relationship trying to figure it out but it's clear now that being away from brian even for that short period of time it gave her some clarity she wanted out but then he came back and when he did come back that changed everything because he returned to salt lake city on august 23rd and he rejoined gabby in this van life trip so
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So Gabby checked out of that hotel the very next day on August 24th, right when Brian returned, and then they continued their cross-country journey together. And the documentary makes it painfully obvious that Gabby felt trapped. That's my takeaway from this. And this is something that domestic experts talk about all the time.
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When somebody is in a toxic relationship and when they start thinking about leaving, statistically, that is when it becomes the most dangerous. That is when the abuser feels like they're losing control. And that is when they begin to lash out even more so. So like I said, if she had just had a couple more days on her own before he came back... Maybe things would be different.
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Now let's talk about that unedited footage from Gabby's computer because it definitely tells a very different story. One of the most heartbreaking pieces of this documentary is that raw, unedited footage from Gabby's computer because while her social media painted a very happy, bright, sunshine, happy picture, these private videos show a totally different reality. Gabby was deeply anxious.
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She was constantly apologizing. There's footage of her crying, trying to talk through what's happening, and blaming herself for the fights that she's having with Brian. Now Brian's controlling behavior was way more obvious because there's these clips where he didn't even realize that the camera was still rolling. And he snaps at her, he dismisses her feelings, and he just makes her feel small.
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She also was starting to recognize how toxic the relationship was, and in one journal entry that was shared, she wrote, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. One moment everything is okay, and the next he's so angry and I don't know why. She was afraid. And the more that you watch, the more that you see it. She was scared to leave, but she also knew that she couldn't stay.
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And you start to see too where she's getting a little bit braver to where she snaps at him. Like in one scene, they're recording something and she says to him something, and I'm just paraphrasing here of like, Well, if you knew how to edit, this would be a lot easier. Kind of realizing, like, I'm carrying the brunt work of all of this. This is all falling on my shoulders.
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I needed to turn it on. I needed to jump on here, talk with my true crime besties and break it down for you because you guys like to know all of the details, the deep dives, the, you know, bits and pieces. And I just can't believe that Netflix didn't include this. And they also did a recent 2020 and it wasn't included on that either.
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Not only did I work to save all this money and convert our van for us and help fund this, but now I'm the one starting this YouTube series, starting this content, and you can't even help with editing it. You also can't set things up. You can't even put on a happy face. Just realizing that, like, this loser brings nothing to the table. He's a little twerpy douchebag, and...
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But she still, he had beat her down so much emotionally and mentally that she felt like she couldn't leave. She felt like he was, he did love her and that this was meant to be. So while when this case first happened, we knew that he was shady and that there was something weird going on between them, we all saw the polished version of their life.
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But this docuseries, it forced us to look at the truth. Social media is a highlight reel, masking real danger underneath it. And that's exactly what was happening with Gabby and Brian. Now, I talked earlier about this a little bit. But one of the most important things the documentary highlights is that the most dangerous time for a victim of this type of domestic issue is when they try to leave.
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And that is exactly what happened to Gabby. Because she had reached out to people. She was thinking about leaving. And that is when Brian became even more unpredictable. And experts in this series kind of break it down like this. Abusers thrive on control. When they feel like they're losing it, they start to panic.
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And this is going to become really key because I'm going to share with you what I believe was the catalyst of what made Brian snap. So this panic that they have can oftentimes turn into violence. And this is why so many of these cases turn deadly at the moment that the victim tries to leave because they just snap. It's terrifying, but it's true.
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Gabby was in the most vulnerable position she possibly could have been in. And the system failed her. So let's talk about the boiling point, or what I believe to be the boiling point. So on August 27th, four days after Brian returned from Florida, Gabby and Brian were seen at two locations in Jackson, Wyoming.
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And this is what I believe was the tipping point of everything because at this point, remember, she already had confided in her ex-boyfriend Jackson once that things weren't quite right, that she was feeling a certain type of way. She had a few days away from Brian. She was like, okay, like this isn't right. I'm editing. Then he comes back.
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So it's before she can make any decisions or distance herself. But then a few days later, they go to Jackson, Wyoming. And while they're there, she sends a Snapchat to her ex-boyfriend Jackson saying, oh, this reminds me of you. I'm in Jackson too. Like, you know, whatever the context of that snap was.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Then we see the Mary Piglet's Tex-Mex restaurant because witnesses reported that around 1.11 p.m. the couple was here dining. During their visit, Brian was observed arguing with restaurant staff. Gabby appeared visibly upset. We also saw text messages that she was sending Brian from the bathroom. She was apologizing for his behavior. It was just things were brewing.
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So much so that I was talking to my sister Amy about it and I was like, I'm going to make an episode on this because they didn't include XYZ. And I told her, she's like, what do you mean? Why wouldn't they have included that? That is insane to me. I was like, I know. So here I am. Gabby's case, Gabby Petito's case shook the world when she first went missing back in 2021.
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It's my opinion that he saw that she was in communication with her ex-boyfriend Jackson or had sent that snap and that this is what made him start to spiral. Because shortly after leaving the restaurant at approximately 2.11 p.m., surveillance footage then pictures them entering that Whole Foods.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But when it shows them pull up in the parking lot, you can visibly see Brian get out of the van and slam the door, already angry, already fuming. Then they spend about 15 minutes inside before returning to the van. So as we know, these sightings on August 27th are among the last known instances of Gabby being seen alive in public, and it's also her last known contact with her family.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Now, it's my belief, so let me backtrack a little bit. Again, this is all my belief based on what we've learned and different timestamps we've heard of. It's my belief, whether it was before or right after the Tex-Mex restaurant, that Brian saw that she had sent that snap to her ex, realizing he's losing control of her.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
She probably already at that point too was beginning to pull away because remember she had had those few days to herself. She already was starting to pull away. And it's my belief that she was strangled and killed inside the van shortly after Whole Foods. And then I think he drove with her to the campsite.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Now, the reason why I think that is because all of that went down on the 27th, but she also sent that infamous text message to her mom on the 27th. If you remember, that day she sent a very odd text to her mom, Nicole, and it read, And Stan was a reference to her grandfather. But Gabby never referred to him by his first name. She would call him Grandpa or whatever.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So this text made her mom very suspicious, suspicious that Brian would have been the one to maybe send this message from her phone because he would have been the only one calling him Stan. Now, we don't know exactly what time she sent that text message, or I should say that that text message came from her phone. But unless it was very, very late at night or even the middle of the night,
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I would imagine that it would have been earlier in the day and that Brian wouldn't have risked attention or risked getting caught by texting her mom in the middle of the night. I think that if he was going to send that text, it was probably earlier in the day. He wouldn't want to be like, I don't want her to question why I'm sending a text at 2 a.m. or why Gabby is sending a text at 2 a.m.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So I think it happened earlier on in the day. So that would have meant that the estimated time of death would have been between when she left Whole Foods on the 27th and when that text message was sent on the 27th, which, in my opinion, was probably more likely before 12 a.m. So that's a small window of time, right? Call it 2.30 p.m. to 12 a.m.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And again, I think that something happened in that van on the way to the campsite. Maybe even right when they arrived at the campsite, but I think that the catalyst was seeing something on her phone. And then I think he obviously had access to her phone. We know he did, whether it was passcode protected or whatnot, because he sent the stand text later on that day.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And then it had everybody in even more uproar when it was revealed that her fiance, Brian Laundrie, was the one responsible for her murder.
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And the FBI also determined, of course, that Gabby was killed between August 27th and August 28th. I personally believe it was the 27th. Then, as we know, Gabby's body was discovered on September 19th at the Spread Creek Dispersed Camping Area in Wyoming's Teton National Forest, and the autopsy had concluded that she died of manual strangulation.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Also, that she had been deceased for about three to four weeks before being found. So I think one of the big pictures here, first and foremost, the big learning coming out of this docuseries was the true dynamic and just how controlling Brian was and what a loser he truly was. And I don't mean that jokingly, like honestly, like just a deadbeat loser.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And it shows us more of like what was going on behind the lens. But I think with Gabby's ex-boyfriend Jackson also speaking, We get an insight into Gabby's mind those final days that she was realizing things weren't right. She was trying to detach. She was confiding so much so.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And I could say I've been in unfortunately similar relationships where there is definitely a shift in power and somebody who's very controlling. And I will say when you do start to feel brave in those relationships and feeling prepared to leave and prepared to walk away,
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But now, as I said, Netflix's American Murder, Gabby Petito, it came out and it does give you a much deeper look into what was really going on behind the scenes beyond this Instagram-worthy road trip of photos of van life and all these things because we're seeing uncut footage, we're seeing new pictures, we're hearing new testimony, and it really is a good documentary and gives you a better understanding and a full understanding of the case.
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you get, I don't want to say careless or reckless, but you get more empowered, more emboldened because you are in your mind feeling like you're already going to leave. So there's not a risk necessarily of them finding out and being mad. And I'm doing a really bad job explaining this. So let me just kind of slow down and go back. But
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
While he was in Florida and she was in the hotel alone for those few days, she reached out to Jackson, expressing some concern. She also had talked with family and friends, not about concern, but just she was starting to like be detached and get more confident in herself. Then when Brian's back in town, she still, has the bravery and the courage to send a snap to her ex-boyfriend.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Something that I would imagine she didn't have before because he didn't even hear from Gabby for the first time until Brian was out of town. So now she's feeling braver and she sends him that text saying, I'm in Jackson thinking of you like because Jackson's your name, this and that. Or like it reminds me of you, not thinking of you, but it reminds me of you.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And sends that while she's literally either next to Brian or at least in close proximity to Brian. So I think that is a detail that you could argue is very indicative of the fact that she was detaching. I don't think she would have done that if she wasn't detaching. And that's why I believe that that was the catalyst.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I think he had access to her phone, which I think we can prove he did because whether it was passcode protected or not, he sent a text message from it later. So it's not a far stretch to believe that he was going through her phone, that he was looking through her messages, that he wanted all control over her. Certainly not.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Even if she was outside filming something with the drone, grabbing her phone to look and then seeing that. And I think that's when it all kind of clicked for him. Shit.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
stemming off this moab incident stemming off of being apart when i was at the storage unit now she's reaching out to her ex like maybe he even went back and saw the text thread after seeing the snap history who knows and that's what where it all kind of came to a boiling point i don't think it was some something that was necessarily premeditated
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I think he probably did snap in the moment and he went to hit her again. He put his hands on her and he strangled her because he was panicked and pissed off that she was going to leave him. Even if she hadn't said that she was going to leave him, he probably knew. And keep in mind, that whole span of events was only two weeks.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
The body cam footage to when Gabby was killed was a two-week period, which five of those days, Brian wasn't even in town for. He was in Florida. Actually, six of those days. So if you're talking, it was 15 days total between the two incidents. Six of those days out, there was only nine days that they were together, bookending, between Moab and when Gabby was killed.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Five days after the body cam footage until he left, and then four days once he returned and he killed her. It's just, had there been a little more time, like I said, and it's always easy to look back in hindsight, right? But had he been in Florida with that storage unit a little longer, maybe things would be different. And this documentary isn't just about revisiting a true crime case.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
It's about learning from it because Gabby's story isn't just tragic, but it's a wake-up call. There are so many people in relationships like this, and many people don't make it out. The signs of coercive control, emotional abuse, the isolation, they were all there, but they were very easy to miss, especially when Brian and Gabby's life just looked so perfect from the outside.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So what do you take away? What are the big things? We always talk about generating awareness on this channel and how we can learn from it, how we can identify red flags. So what do we learn? Pay attention to the warning signs. If someone in your life is suddenly isolated, anxious, or constantly apologizing for their partner's behavior, you should check in on them.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And I'm gonna give a personal example here. Not that it's something that I noticed with a friend of mine or a family member, but something that happened to me. I was in a relationship when I was, how old was I? Let's call it 24 years old maybe, give or take, 24 or 25. And it was with someone who I had a history with, who I had been with years earlier and we were trying to give it another shot.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
He was much older than me and he wanted total control over me. And I at first romanticized it. I was like, he just loves me so much. He just, I'm his whole world. Like he just wants to be with me all the time because we're so in love and this and that. And he doesn't want me to see other friends because he wants to be around me. He wants me to only be with him and his friends and this and that.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
As I mentioned, it dives into never-seen footage, text messages, interviews, and it really also, to me, and I'm sure many of you who watched it, it reveals something that is absolutely heartbreaking that we didn't even know before. And that was that Gabby was trying to leave Brian. She knew that things weren't right, and she was scared about how he might react, and she was looking for a way out.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But over time, it got to the point where He wouldn't even let me work, literally. He would not let me go to work. And then when I started working remotely, he and I would bring my laptop to his house. And I would be like, okay, I just need to like have a couple hours. I have a little bit of work to do because I was doing more consulting stuff at that time. He would get mad.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
He wouldn't even let me work on my laptop. And in the rare moment that he would, he would be sitting over me like watching me to where I almost felt –
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
guilty even trying to work when I was near him I felt like I couldn't he anytime like if my phone would go off and I got a text message and I grabbed it not like I was sitting there scrolling but like if I went to respond he'd be like you're always on your phone why are you always on your phone like who are you talking to what's going on to where I would start silencing my phone and like keep it away anytime I would go to his house because he would make me feel like I was doing something wrong like I
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
it was my fault that I shouldn't be talking on my phone. It almost made me feel like, and again, I'm sorry, I'm not, I didn't prepare how I wanted to say this, so I'm not explaining it very thoroughly or clearly, but It's like, it brings me right back there. He made me feel like I genuinely was doing something wrong to where I thought that I was being shady.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I thought that I had to hide things because I was like, oh my God, he's going to get mad at me. What is he going to get mad at me for next? I can't work. I can't do this. And I slowly started to realize how he was isolating me from everybody. He didn't want me working. He didn't want me talking to people. He wouldn't allow me to talk on my phone.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Anytime we went somewhere, he always insisted that he was the one who would drive us, which I thought was like, polite at first, but then I started to realize as time went on, it wasn't it was so that I couldn't leave. And it was it got to be really I don't want to say scary, but very uncomfortable to where I just felt like I was always on edge with him.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And this is very TMI, but so much so that like he would demand when we would be intimate. And I felt like I had no other option but to do that. And like, because I was scared of how he was going to react. And this was more emotional and mental. It didn't get physical with him ever, unfortunately. I have a track record of that too, which is why I talk about true crime. I've learned a lot, guys.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But, um...
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
It gets really scary and so sometimes like for me luckily I was able to identify what was happening and I realized it took me a while but I realized something wasn't right and I ended up just like leaving like he said something to me one day I remember I went to his house and he had a bad day and I had just arrived and it was like two in the afternoon okay and he had had a really bad day and he was proposing ask him I don't even know how you would want to say it
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
insinuating that we needed to be intimate right at that moment I was like bro chill I just got here like and no like I'm not just here to be on demand for you like it was very uncomfortable and he like gasped at me he's like I'm having a really bad day and you don't want to do what will make me feel better you don't want to comfort me you don't want to do that like what the fuck like and made it and then like went outside started smoking a cigarette making me feel like it was my fault to where normally I would have gone back and be like I'm so sorry like you're right I'm being selfish this and that
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But to where I was like, what is happening here? Like he's making me the bad guy in this situation. Like because I don't want to have sex with him right now. Because I just walked in the door and it's 2 p.m. And like he's telling me the reason I need to be having sex with him isn't because I want to. It's because I need to make him feel better. Like it all started clicking.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And I don't know why I'm sharing so much right now. But whatever. Hopefully it helps somebody else who's watching this. And... It clicked for me. And so while he was outside on the patio in the back of the house smoking, I just left. I just got my keys and I left. He started blowing up my phone. Where the fuck are you? What are you doing?
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And I was just like, first of all, nobody has ever made me feel as cheap as you just did right now and as controlled. And I'm done. And that was literally the last time I ever saw him. And it was the best decision I ever made because that relationship was so toxic for a multitude of reasons. And...
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But something that they didn't talk about, was how Brian went home to Florida after that Moab incident. After the Utah incident, the infamous body cam footage, he not only went to the hotel or the shelter place and stayed, but then he went back to Florida. And when he went back to Florida, that is when Gabby started pulling away. And
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
just beyond so sorry my whole point in explaining that is that sometimes you can identify these things within yourself or your own relationship which is great but sometimes you can't until it's too late so if you ever notice that one of your friends or family members is starting to pull away or withdraw or that they're always trying to make excuses for their partner's behavior
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Just check in on them. Also, believe victims when they speak up. Gabby did confide in people, but nobody really fully grasped how much danger she was in. And that's not to their fault at all. She wasn't fully disclosing the severity of it.
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But even if people give you a little bit of information, err on the side of caution, in my opinion, and think that the situation is much bigger than what they're probably sharing. Just like how, what is the truth if people say, what is it? It's like some sort of expression where if guys tell you they've slept with five girls, multiply it by 10.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
If girls tell you they only spent $20 at the mall, multiply it by 10. Like things like that, like inflate it. If they are giving you a little bit, It's safe to assume they're just trying to be discretionary and conservative with what they're sharing, maybe even getting a pulse check on it. So I would say err on the side of caution and assume that things are bigger than what they're saying.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Also, I think it's very important to know that leaving is the most dangerous time. If someone is trying to leave an abusive relationship, they or you need support and you need a safety plan in place. The statistic is something like it takes you seven or eight times to successfully leave. And we also know that statistically, leaving is the most dangerous time to do so.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So all in all, the Netflix series, American Murder, Gabby Petito, it is a tough watch, but it is necessary. It goes beyond just telling us what happened, but it really forces us to see the very deep-rooted layers of abuse, control, and manipulation that ultimately led to Gabby's death. Her story should have ended differently. She should have made it home.
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She should have had the chance to live the life that she dreamed of. But now the best that we can hope to do is make sure that her story helps others, helps other people recognize the warning signs before it's too late. So if you or someone you know is in a toxic or an abusive relationship, please, please reach out for help.
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Resources are available and there are people who will listen because Gabby's story deserves to be more than just another true crime case. It should be a lesson and it should be something that helps prevent this from happening to anybody else.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And I could go on and on and on too about my thoughts about the dirty laundries, the despicable human beings they are, and what they did to Gabby's family when Brian returned home and how freaking vile they are. But I would probably punch the camera if I continue talking about it because it makes me so angry. It makes me... Just I have a visceral reaction of just rage when I think about them.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And I recently did talk on my podcast about all of the conspiracies about if Brian's still alive, if his family helped him, because I know a lot of people are now dredging that back up. So it's only available on the podcast, not YouTube, but you can find it on Apple or on Patreon. It's not or on Patreon. It's not on Spotify, only Apple or Patreon. But we talk a lot about that.
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But they are just the most despicable human beings ever and I hope that they never walk into a single public place for the rest of their lives without eyes just burning into their souls because they are evil. The fact that they could do that to another mother and another family and withhold that information, it is the cruelest thing on the planet in my opinion.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
As I go through this, I'm going to kind of build out my timeline because to me it seems very crystal clear what happened and why this happened and what was the catalyst. But they didn't really go into details about that. And I think that that is very crucial in this.
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So anyway I know that this one was a little bit unpolished. It kind of brings us back to our roots of how we started this channel. So if you've been here since the beginning you understand this is kind of a throwback to those days but I just wanted to jump on here.
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I wanted to share a lot about this and just kind of give you my take on everything and again the purpose of sharing her story and talking about it is to raise awareness. That's all we can do at this point but it's It is such a valuable tool and it is such a good learning lesson for us.
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So I really appreciate you tuning in despite, I'm sure, already being familiar with the story and watching so much content out there. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me, Annie. I appreciate you guys being here.
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If you're not following the podcast yet, make sure you take a quick second, follow it, give us a rating and review if you're listening on Apple. I would greatly appreciate it. And make sure that you are following because I actually have another bonus episode that is going to be dropping either later this week or early next. And it's one more where I covered a case recently.
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I was like, oh, we're not done. I got to drag this guy's ass. I got to show who the real person is, what the real person under the mask that they're putting out there in the public is. So that's coming very soon. All right, guys. Thanks again. And until the next one, please, please, please stay safe. Be nice. Don't kill anyone. And do not join any cults. All right. Bye.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Now what this docuseries also showed us, like so many issues when there is domestic disputes and dangerous situations, the most dangerous time for a victim is when they are trying to leave. And in Gabby's case, that fear was, of course, tragically justified.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So we're going to go through all of the new things that we learned through this docuseries and some of the stuff that I had learned years ago when we were researching this case that they didn't really touch on that, again, make the puzzle not only fit, but... It makes me more angry. It really does because I think that there could have been opportunity to intervene multiple times.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So we'll talk about that. So let's start with more of like the emotional abuse and the control that we didn't really see coming. Before this docuseries, a lot of people only saw the happy road trip version of Gabby and Brian. The Instagram posts, the YouTube vlogs, and everything really did look picture perfect. Piggyback rides, beautiful sceneries, them cooking together, them doing little things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I mean, we all know what you see on social media isn't the true picture, right? But American Murder, Gabby Petito, it kind of flips the script. It showed us what was really happening behind the camera with all of the unedited footage. And through text messages, interviews, and that footage from Gabby's computer, a very different Brian Laundrie starts to come into focus.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
One who was very controlling, very emotionally manipulative, and somebody who was constantly gaslighting Gabby. And here's what the documentary reveals about their dynamic. Brian constantly belittled Gabby. He'd make her feel like she was overreacting or that she was being crazy whenever she expressed concerns, just constantly gaslighting her. He also isolated her.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
She had fewer and fewer people to talk to because Brian was controlling their environment, their finances, how they would spend their time on the road, what destinations they would go to, everything. Even when she was preparing for this road trip, working at Taco Bell, he started to lose control over her and over him trying to isolate her, and so he started to make that a problem.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Like, why are you hanging out with all these deadbeats at Taco Bell, late night hours, this and that, trying to shame her for what she was trying to do, which was earn money to, hello, bankroll his loser ass on this van life trip, but he still didn't like that she wasn't in his grasp, wasn't under his control. He also controlled their social media.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Gabby loved creating the content, but Brian always had a say in how they as a couple and their situation was going to be portrayed. He wanted to keep up appearances. He wanted to look like the good guy, the supportive guy, but we see that he really wasn't that. And he also had a history of getting physical. Now, we saw the body cam footage from Moab, Utah, and... It's infamous footage.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I will play a couple clips here for you, but we saw that footage where we're called after somebody actually saw Brian hitting Gabby in the street.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But in the docuseries, we see even more evidence about how this wasn't just a one-time thing. And this kind of manipulation is classic in abusive relationships, okay? The abuser makes the victim question themselves. They isolate them from any support systems they have. And then they slowly just...
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Break them down until they feel like they can't leave, until they feel like they have nobody else and that it's their fault and that they're only going to be accepted by this person. Now, I want to touch on Moab really quickly. The infamous Moab police body cam incident occurred on August 12th, 2021.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
This was the day that they had received that phone call of somebody witnessing Brian slapping Gabby in the street. And then the police officers spotted their van, pulled them over because they like went onto a median or hit a curb and it looked as though, you know, he was driving erratically. Now, in this body cam footage, Gabby is distraught, just visibly distressed. She's crying.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
She's apologizing repeatedly, all while Brian appears calm, collected. He's even joking with the officers, calling her crazy to them. And this is all despite a witness report saying that Brian had been hitting Gabby. What's going on? Why are you crying?
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So she's apologizing. She's saying how she suffers from anxiety, stress, how sometimes she gets mad at him. And it's really, really upsetting to watch because the officers ultimately categorized Gabby as the aggressor in all of this. And I get that she was the one saying that she was the aggressor, so I understand that. loosely, I'll say that, loosely, how they could come to that conclusion.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
But what they chose to do in that moment was separate the couple for the night. Take no further action, just separate them. Gabby can sleep in the van. Brian's going to go to this hotel slash shelter situation. But this incident has been heavily scrutinized because this was a missed opportunity for intervention. If they labeled her as the aggressor and the...
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Problem in this at the very least they should have arrested her and they they should have taken her into custody which I wish that they would have done because had they done that she would have called her mom and it would have given her mom the opportunity to come and get her to intervene to. get to the bottom of this situation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
At that point, too, I would imagine her mom would have learned about that 911 call, which when they had first notified them or when she first saw the body, they hadn't even known that somebody had called 911 reporting that Brian was slapping her. Now, what's frustrating... And that's why I say this was all loosely how they named her as the aggressor.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Or not loosely that they named her as that, but like had they arrested her, that's the most they could have done. Because in this docuseries now, photos of the marks on her face come out. And you can tell this is a photo she took herself, a selfie. She's wearing the exact same outfit that she was wearing in that body cam footage. This was taken on the same day.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Now, as you can see, this isn't releasing on our regular podcast release schedule. We are releasing this as a bonus episode because after I watched the Gabby Petito documentary on Netflix...
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Clearly it wasn't taken after they were separated. It was taken before. So my question is... Did the police not see these marks? Did they not see how bad they were? I know they saw a little one, but in this photo, she's marked up. Like, so... Were these markings from earlier on in the day? Was this then from just the slapping incident?
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
We don't have a timestamp of when this photo was, but obviously before they were separated, but how could they not see that? First of all, let me backtrack and I know I'm spinning here a little bit. How could they not see that and determine that she was not the primary aggressor? But even if let's say the marks had faded by the time they were pulled over,
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
It shows what the dynamic truly was, and it just makes me so mad because, again, even though she was admitting to being the primary aggressor, which she wasn't, by the way, like, she was just a scared young girl who had been gaslit so much that she thought that she was the problem in all of this, which she wasn't. But anyway, I get it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
She was taking responsibility, and so they said, okay, you know... We're going to put him in the shelter. They should have arrested her. They should have done something more to intervene if they truly thought that Brian was the victim here. Now, I want to talk about what happened after this Moab incident and something that they didn't really touch on much in the docuseries.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Because shortly after this body cam footage and after they were separated, five days after to be exact, Brian flew back to Florida. And this is all according to the family attorney, Stephen Bertolino. Brian flew from Salt Lake City to Tampa, Florida on August 17, 2021.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
The reason he flew back was to obtain some items and close out a storage unit because he wanted to not waste money on the storage unit. He wanted to save money because he and Gabby were contemplating extending their road trip together. So he flew back five days after the Moab incident. Now, during this time, Gabby remained in Utah.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
She stayed at a hotel, the Fairfield Inn and Suites, and this is near Salt Lake City Airport. It was later confirmed by hotel staff as well that she stayed there.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Now, while she was there without Brian for those days, she continued communication with her friends and her family, also confiding in them because it seems like now that she had a little bit of distance from Brian, she was starting to see the light. She was starting to realize that something here just was not right.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Additionally, on August 19th, while he's still in Florida, she posted a video on their YouTube channel, Nomadic Static. This video really documented their travels, but again, only from the rose-colored lens of everything. Just...
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
their perfect trip together and her posting this really did suggest to me at least that she was continuing to focus on their social media presence she really wanted to focus on content creation while he was away and like dive into that because as we know and as we learned from this documentary she was the only one who had any capability of editing he was he couldn't help in anything he couldn't help fund it he couldn't help edit he couldn't help give good vibes he couldn't help be nice like he was just a freaking loser through and through
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
I found myself kind of just like seething with rage, not only at the dirty laundries and what vile, disgusting human trash they are, but because Netflix didn't include a really big key detail that I think is so important to this entire case and really sets up and illustrates the timeline of events and what the catalyst was in all of this. So I knew I needed to get my mic ready.
Serialously with Annie Elise
248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
So she's now on her own here in Utah for a few days, editing, pouring herself into the content creation, talking with friends and family, and starting to realize, like, this is kind of nice with him being away. I'm starting to, like, realize this isn't how I should be treated. And one of the most chilling details in this documentary is an interview that was done with Gabby's ex-boyfriend, Jackson.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
because he says that just days before she was murdered, Gabby told him that she wanted to leave Brian, but that she didn't know how he was going to react, that she was scared. So this again showed that now that there was a little distance, she was thinking about things differently, a little more clearly, you could argue.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
And this interaction that she had with her ex, Jackson, was on August 22nd, just one day before Brian returned. And it makes me really sad and it makes me really mad because had she had just a couple more days before he came back, maybe she would have gathered a little bit more strength.
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248: Why Did Netflix LEAVE THIS OUT About Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie?! | American Murder: Gabby Petito
Maybe she would have been able to have more open conversations and vulnerable conversations with Jackson, with her friends, with Rose, with her parents, to where someone would have known what was really happening. Because at this point, nobody really knew how bad things were. But like I said, during this period, she was still talking to people. She was reaching out to people and
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Colorado Springs detective Nicole Black was the first person to bring up this potential link back in 2022, long before Santino's body was ever found. In April of 2022, the same month that Santino went missing, a woman named Deca Simmons was arrested and charged with the murder of 48-year-old Daximo Ceja. Now, this murder, it was pretty gruesome.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Deca shot him, dismembered his body, and then stored the remains in a freezer before dumping them in a bag somewhere. She was caught up in that case primarily through her DNA and was eventually found guilty, and she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So where does this whole potential serial killer thing come in?
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Well, even after Deca was arrested and found guilty, the investigators in three other cases announced that she was the main suspect for at least three other murders, though those investigations are still ongoing.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
The exact reasons Detective Black linked Santino's case with Deca's aren't fully known, but I would have to guess that it has to do with time, location, and things like that being factors. And it's important to note that Detective Black is the only one who has been talking openly about the potential link.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Even in the most recent updates, the Colorado Springs Police have declined to comment on whether or not they believe the cases are linked due to it being an ongoing investigation, which, here are my thoughts. One, the claim could be completely bogus. We really don't know because we don't know all the details.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
There could be a slew of evidence, or the detectives could have simply thought that it fit because of the timing and the location being right. Two, maybe the detective was onto something, but the investigators don't want to share that information just yet because it could potentially put Santino in a pretty bad light.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
See, when Deca killed her first victim, the motive that was discussed in court was that she caught him talking to a minor. And as the prosecution worded it, Deca had an unrestrained hatred for anybody who would molest a child. Now, of course, Santino was never charged with anything like that. I want to make that extremely clear.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But it does turn out that he did have a pretty lengthy history with law enforcement, ranging from 2013 all the way to 2021.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
some of those cases involved one where he pleaded guilty to felony menacing and an assault charge that was also later dropped so maybe deca considered herself some sort of i don't know vigilante those three other murder victims whose cases she's also a suspect in could have also had you know a similar colorful background and maybe that was the link that put them all together both law enforcement as well as santino's family declined to comment or deny anything because the investigation is still ongoing so
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Who really knows? All I know is that I was not at all expecting how deep and dark this case potentially could be when I clicked on an article about a John Doe being identified. And now the fact that he could be linked to a female serial killer and all of these things, it just is so beyond weird, especially when there's not really a motive at play. I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So I'm just kind of like here to give you the scoop and the skinny on what's going on in the true crime world, because I know, unfortunately, sometimes it's a lot to keep up with. There are a lot of moving parts, right? And today, there is no shortage. We have got so much to talk about. We have updates in the Brian Koberger case, the Idaho 4. You know that horrific murder case.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So I'm curious to know what you guys think. Let me know. But it's one that I'm going to follow up on because, again, it's just it's piqued my curiosity.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Now moving into this next case, this is one that I don't know if you could say it was like ripped out of Gossip Girl or like one of these like bougie boarding school type shows, reality or otherwise, but teachers have now been arrested for throwing an underage rager party. And let me just tell you, all the schools I went to, no teacher was ever throwing us any party.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
I did have some inappropriate teachers. I will say that. None of them who would throw us a party, but I did have one teacher, I'm not going to say his name, who let me literally change my grade. It was in sixth grade. It was like the software where they type in the grades and like it populates your grade. And like we were watching a movie in class one day and he literally let me change my scores.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And when I think back on it now, I think about how creepy that is and how weird it is. Like why would you like favor a young girl in sixth grade and let her do that? And that – That's a whole other host of issues we have to talk about, but never did I have anybody throwing me a party.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Now, I also have to say, as bizarre as this case is, it also is one of those where it's like the world's dumbest criminal TV shows because it is so wild. So on January 24th, 47-year-old Elizabeth Hill Brodigan, who was the principal of Roosevelt Elementary School in Cocoa Beach, Florida...
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
along with 45 year old third grade teacher carly anderson were both arrested for throwing a gigantic party that was filled to the brim with minors you heard that correctly minors now their charges differed a little bit since one of them actually hosted the party at their house and the other one was just there to you know get drunk and provide i don't know moral support i guess who knows but the charges ranged from child neglect contributing to the delinquency of a minor
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
hosting an open house party and delinquency of a minor the party was held on sunday the 19th and i'm assuming since the school had mlk day off that monday that's why it was being held and it was held at elizabeth's house now maybe the most insane part of all of it is that this wasn't just some small trusted group of kids there were apparently 100 kids at this house at one point
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Their ages ranged from 13 years old to 17 years old. And this party even had a theme, which it's like the audacity and irony of it all is just so stupid to me. But the theme was called White Lie. It was the White Lie Party. Now, those parties are typically reserved for colleges, for frats, for sororities, not literal 13-year-olds.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
The whole premise is to show up to the party wearing a white t-shirt with like a blatant lie about yourself written in sharpie on the t-shirt. And just the fact that there was a theme, it shows how much thought and preparation was put into this party.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And as if this isn't already insane enough, the teachers not only hosted the party, but they provided the alcohol and they were even getting drunk with the kids. They were apparently taking all the precautions to not get caught too. They were turning off all of the outside lights at the house so that I guess they wouldn't look, you know, super conspicuous.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
They even had some of the teenagers call in a fake 911 call to try to get cops further away from the house. The call claimed that someone at a local skate park was holding people at gunpoint and that people were even shooting their weapons, which, like, hello, that is such a serious thing to call in. I can't believe it.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
We have updates in that we're going to talk about. There's also new information on the Madalena Kojikari case. And if you're not familiar with that one, it's one that I did a deep dive on. I will link it in the show notes. But there's now unsealed documents that have come out. And so it's like you're taking a more detailed look into this investigation. I'll give you a full recap when we get there.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
that two adults, let alone adults who are well in their 50s or on their way to 50, and both teaching in administrative positions, would recommend doing something like that. I mean, I keep saying it's insane, I know, but honestly, it's the only way I know how to describe it. So obviously, the party got busted, but not before doing its fair share of damage to everybody involved.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
One kid got a DUI at a nearby traffic stop. Another kid was found on the front lawn and needed medical attention because they were so drunk and so blacked out and out of it.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And I don't think that I even need to go on a whole rant of just how irresponsible this all was on the teacher's part and how scary it was for the parents and the family members of the kids to like learn about what was happening, but it is horrifying. Take a listen.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Like did they not think these kinds of things could happen? Clearly they didn't even have rules about not driving or you know were watching to make sure everyone was safe and doing okay. They were probably too busy playing beer pong themselves to even care.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And one of the things I want to know too is if the teachers also wore the white lie t-shirts because I just would be curious to see like how much are they trying to relate to these students and like It just feels so gross to me.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Now the one thing we don't know so far is the connection between the teachers and the kids because both were working at the elementary school and like I said the kids were at least 13 years or older which is awful 100% don't get me wrong but my reason for bringing that up is like maybe one of them or even both of them had kids at the party maybe that was the connection.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
I mean I would think that you would have to have a close connection to someone who wanted the party thrown but to agree to something as stupid as that, but who knows?
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Like, could it have been like, oh, my niece wants to have a party, she goes to the school I teach at or I'm the principal at, let all of her friends come over, we'll host the party, but it still is so irresponsible and reckless and stupid. So, so far, they've both been released on a scarily low bail, Carly's being just $3,000 and Elizabeth being $3,500.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Their teaching careers are no doubt completely over, as they should be, and I can't help but wonder if they really thought the risk was worth the night of partying with a bunch of teenagers. Like, make it make sense. Who wants to party with a bunch of teenagers anyway? Who wants to go to town with a guy in a rowboat? That's a quote my sister and I say to each other all the time.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
It's from Romy and Michelle. But like, who wants to party with a bunch of teenagers anyway, right? Unless you're a creep and like a groomer, but it's disgusting. Now, speaking of like people who I just cannot make sense of and I just like don't understand humanity, this next case is about a landlord who shot their tenant over a thermostat dispute. Literally, that's what happened.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But it's like a missing girl. The parents are super shady. It's a wild one. So there's updates there. We also have a John Doe who was identified as a missing person from 2022 and talks of a potential link to a woman found guilty of murder and a suspect in three other murder cases.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Once again, a crazy case out of Florida. This specific case happened in Westchester, which is about 10 miles from downtown Miami. So on Saturday, January 25th, 37-year-old Adam Anson was arrested and charged with the murder of his rental tenant, 57-year-old Carlos Gonzalez.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
The arrest report stated that Adam went to Carlos' apartment, which is a building next to his house on the same property, and he was holding a gun and banging on the windows, telling Carlos to let him in. Now, the reason for this was apparently because Adam wanted to come inside the apartment and change the thermostat.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
I'm going to just go out on a limb and guess that the utility bill came in and it was higher than Adam would have liked for it to have been. I don't know. I mean, I know that sounds like I'm making a joke out of it, but genuinely, that is my only reasonable guess.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
The arrest report said that Carlos opened the door and let Adam come in, but Adam was still mad at whatever it was that originally set him off. So he began punching Carlos, completely unprovoked, and then dragged him outside to the backyard and shot him multiple times in the head. Which, that literally sounds made up, but that is real. That's what the arrest report says.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And what sounds even more made up is the fact that Adam left Carlos' body in the backyard, went back inside the apartment, changed the thermostat, then decided to go ahead and call the police on himself. Which, I don't know, if it was because of a discrepancy on the utility bill, that bill must have been in like the tens of thousands of dollars.
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237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Not even that that amount would justify killing somebody, but like, what is going on here? This may go down in history as the most insane reaction I have ever heard of. During the initial 911 call, Adam tried to say that Carlos had come after him first, and that he only shot him in self-defense. but I guess this has since been debunked.
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Now, whether that was through evidence or if Adam eventually confessed, I'm not 100% sure. Adam is currently facing charges of second-degree murder and burglary with armed assault or battery. And unfortunately, Carlos was unable to survive his injuries, and he was pronounced dead at the local hospital. It's just wild. I don't get people's reactions sometimes.
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We hear some of the most bizarre things right, and like, this over a thermostat? I don't even know. I'm like, I know I'm staring blankly. I don't even know what to make of this. It is so insane and unhinged to me. Now we're going to take a really, really quick micro nano break to hear from our sponsor. Thank you for understanding sponsors are essential to keeping this podcast free.
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And then we are going to be back to talk all things Brian Koberger, the Idaho four case, Gabby Petito, the documentary and more. So we'll be right back.
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Two elementary school teachers have been arrested for throwing a party for minors, which is like absolutely insane to me. There's also a Florida landlord who shot their tenant over, get this, thermostat disagreement. Mm-hmm, I know, weird, obviously, right? And then also I wanna talk with you about the new documentary that Netflix just announced about Gabby Petito.
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All right, let's talk New Year's goals. Whether it is eating healthier, feeling better, or just being more mindful about what you're putting into your body, everybody makes a goal. Now for me, one thing that I'm focusing on is making better food choices. Yet I don't want to sacrifice the foods that I love because I love myself carbs. I do, through and through.
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But I'm tired of like ordering on DoorDash on Postmates and like just having like ultra unhealthy stuff. So in enters Hero Bread. I have talked to you guys about Hero Bread before because Hero Bread has completely changed the game for me. Their sliced bread, their bagels, their tortillas, their Hawaiian dinner rolls, they're all next level. My kids love them. I love them.
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It's like this fluffy bread that makes the most perfect avocado toast, the perfect PB&J, a warm, gooey grilled cheese that you can put with a cozy soup. quick quesadillas that my kids love, even though they're picky eaters. And the best part of all of it is that it's ultra low in net carbs, has zero grams of sugar, and it's packed with fiber. So you would never guess that it's actually healthy.
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It tastes just as good as traditional bread, actually maybe even fluffier and better. So I said, I've been loving their tortillas, not only for quesadillas for the kids, but also for taco nights. Their bagels are so good in the morning for just quick, easy breakfast before we hit the road.
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And let me just say, while we're on the conversation of that, their four gram net carb bagel is a total game changer. So with Hero Bread, I can actually stick to my goals without feeling like I'm missing out. If you're ready to try it for yourself, Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Just head to hero.co and use code AE at checkout. That's H-E-R-O.C-O with code AE.
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trust me you are going to love it honestly guys the bread you've probably seen it on my instagram stories it is so fluffy so good and the big sleeve of hawaiian rolls that i get from them my kids will like literally chief down in one sitting so you need to check it out and shout out if you don't follow me on instagram you should it's at underscore annie elise okay so let's move into this next case now
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And I want to talk to you about the Gabby Petito Netflix show that is coming out because it's something much shorter, but I do want to touch on it. And I know that it is absolutely just huge news for everybody involved in the true crime world. But just this past Monday on January 27th, Netflix announced the official date for the new and upcoming Gabby Petito docuseries.
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And even people who really aren't into true crime know of the Gabby Petito case, right? But if for some reason you have been living under a rock and have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, here's the much more sped up version of it. In 2021, 22-year-old Gabby Petito went missing while she was on a cross-country road trip in her van with her boyfriend, also rumored fiancé Brian Laundrie.
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So we have got a lot to talk about. And I wanna just mention, so many of you have been like in my DMs asking me to give my take on new updates regarding the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, Ryan Reynolds of it all. I know a lot of you on this podcast and on YouTube are interested, but I also know because it doesn't really fit in our normal true crime conversation,
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She was found shortly after being reported missing, and she was found in the Grand Teton National Park, and she had been strangled to death. A lot came out after her death, and it spiraled pretty much into what I would describe as one of the most well-known true crime cases today. I mean, ranking up there with cases like Chris Watts, the Idaho Four, John Bonnet, those kinds of cases.
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It's like a household name. Everyone has at least heard of her name, even if they know nothing about the case. And a lot of its fame and notoriety had to do with the fact that Gabby had a pretty big following on both Instagram and YouTube. She would document their journeys, and she would share with the world what seemed to be a really happy, loving couple.
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The series is titled American Murder, Gabby Petito, and it's set to be released on February 17th, 2025. Just from the teasers, it seems like we're going to be diving into Gabby and Brian's relationship, also their van life, and of course the infamous body cam footage from right before Gabby's death, and it's split into a three-part docuseries.
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The Netflix press release described what to expect with the series, saying, While taking viewers on a journey through Gabby and Brian's final days together, the series will unveil the tragic reality behind their insta-perfect life, and it will reveal painful moments where their story might have taken a different turn.
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The docuseries also promises never-before-seen footage and exclusive interviews, and I, for one, am very eager to see what this series has to offer or even how it differs from the documentaries that are already out there and have been done about Gabby, but her story is so incredibly powerful and heartbreaking because when we saw that body cam footage in hindsight, it was very clear, at least in my opinion, what the situation was, and
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The fact that they separated them but like Brian I think got off a little too scot-free and had he not I think that the situation would have been handled and ended very differently and it's like you can always Monday morning quarterback. I get that right but it's just so sad and her parents have been so outspoken about Gabby. They have the Gabby Petito Foundation and
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They really have helped so many other families and victims ever since Gabby's passing. And I just hope the dirty laundries never can go anywhere without feeling like everybody's eyes are on them and judging them. And I'm talking about Brian Laundrie's parents because I think they are truly some of the most scum of the earth human beings.
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Roberta and I forget the dad's name, but like I call them the dirty laundries because I think they are dirty and grimy and disgusting. And I just hope that they can never even go into a grocery store without feeling
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feeling the weight of their decisions in protecting their son and people's eyes and judgment staring at them because I think as a parent and as a human what they did to Gabby's family was just horrendous horrible so I just went off on a spiral I know I'm very sorry about that but I'm excited to watch this docuseries let me know if you guys are going to watch it too
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Some people are like, I don't care about this. I don't care about pop culture. It's not on my radar, like leave it to other people. So I do have a lot of thoughts. Okay. And I listened to the six minute voice memo that was leaked earlier this week or not leaked, but released. And I do have a lot of thoughts.
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Now this next case is kind of like a throwback of nostalgia for me a little bit. I don't know if any of you guys ever watched VH1's Mob Wives with like Drita and Renee. Was it Renee? Yeah, I think it was her name is Renee. And like all the Mob Wives. But this is a case that kind of throws back a little bit to that. Because one of the Mob Wives, Natalie, was reported missing but then later found.
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And some people are wondering was this a Hannah Kobayashi 2.0? So like I said, it's definitely a case that caught my eye, especially after all the chaos that we got into with the Hannah Kobayashi case these past few months. Although it's nowhere near as crazy, I'll give you that.
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But 44-year-old Natalie or Nat D, who is better known for her time on season five of the VH1 show Mob Wives, was reported missing on January 21st, 2025. What did she say to Ron?
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Now the reason this immediately stuck out to me so much is because it's extremely reminiscent of the Hannah case, at least in the very beginning before all the crazy things started to come out about Hannah. So let's get into what all has happened so far.
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Natalie's friends and family were very quick to talk to the media, reporting that leading up to her disappearance, she had apparently been acting very weird and just all around not normal or like herself. Concerns for Natalie's whereabouts and overall well-being first started a few weeks ago on January 5th, when she never boarded either one of her separate two flights home to Florida.
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From the jump, there was a lot of confusion. I mean, her family thought that she was in Philadelphia, that she'd be flying home from there, but then after reporting her missing last Tuesday, the police found records of her staying in a hotel in Las Vegas, which I obviously don't need to say is a huge jump away from Philly, where her family thought that she was.
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And a lot of other smaller details, like how they discover this and how long Natalie stayed, where she stayed, or exactly what dates she stayed, they haven't been released. All we know is pretty much the bare minimum.
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One of her close friends, who is only known in the media right now as Ben, claims that four days before she missed her flight, Natalie messaged him on WhatsApp and she was asking for money for a plane ticket from Vegas back to Florida. And that was the flight that she ended up missing on the 5th. So even though her family had no idea that she was ever even in Vegas...
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apparently she had made it clear to her friend that that's where she was it's still not known if she told him why she was there who she was with or anything like that but it shows that she was at least there for multiple weeks before her family even realized it now being in vegas in and of itself was confusing and it was terrifying for her friends and family because it just did not make any sense to them as far as they knew she didn't even know anybody who lived in vegas so
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So I'm trying to figure out what platform I want to do that on, whether it is the podcast, maybe it's a live stream, maybe it's a live stream on Patreon. where we do talk about things more fluidly, I'm not really sure. So if you have any suggestions or requests, definitely let me know. But I just wanted to bring that up to let you know, you know, it is on my radar and I have a lot of feelings.
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It's not like they could just write it off as her going to stay with a friend and, you know, keep things more low-key. They claimed that Natalie also wasn't one to really keep things private. If she was planning on going somewhere, they would know about it. Not to mention, she had told them that she was coming back from Philly, so she had been lying to them about where she was that whole time.
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Why she told Ben the truth and not her family, I don't really know.
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now it's important to note that natalie didn't completely cut off contact with everyone after she missed her flight on the 5th which it was more than likely why there was such a big gap in between then and when she was actually reported missing her mom denise had a really short facetime call with her the week before she reported her missing and denise said that the call all happened just so fast
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She at least saw Natalie's face and heard her talking to know that she was alive, but that didn't immediately mean that she thought that she was both alive and well. Denise said that she was acting, quote, nervous and stressed, and what that entailed exactly, I'm not sure, but you can just tell when your friend or family member is nervous or distressed. I mean, I know the type.
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You can tell when their behavior is off. It's easy to tell when they're not acting right. She also noted that she couldn't tell if she was alone or not. So Denise was asking her all these questions like, where are you? Why didn't you come home? That sort of thing. And instead of answering, Natalie immediately hung up, clearly not wanting to give any solid answers.
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Although we don't know if that was the exact same time that she was staying at the hotel in Vegas, but we do know that it was at least that same week. Now after that weird interaction, Denise kept calling both of her cell phones, but Natalie never answered again. It seemed like her phone had either died or had been shut off, and I'm sure that that made Denise feel even more panicked.
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When asked about how Natalie had been acting in the months leading up to her disappearance, Denise said that she noticed that Natalie had been acting which what she described as a distant. Again, we don't know exactly what that means or really even entails, so did she see her family less, talk to them less? I don't know, but I would assume so.
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On the same day that she was reported missing, the Las Vegas Police Department confirmed that a missing persons report had been taken for Natalie and that a search had begun. But get this though, later that day, Natalie apparently called Denise and told her that she was safe, that everything was fine, not to worry.
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Denise says she claimed that she wasn't hurt or anything like that, but her purse along with her IDs had been stolen. So not long after Denise came forward, the Las Vegas Police Department issued a statement that was pretty short, but basically said cases closed, they're no longer looking for her, all of the things.
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Now I guess some of my initial thoughts are, if her purse was stolen and she had no money and no IDs, how'd she get a hotel room? Why was she in Vegas when her family thought she was in Philly? How did she call so quickly after being reported as missing? Why was she acting weird and not telling Denise where she was if the only issue was that somebody stole her purse?
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All of those questions are ones that I just can't help but continue to wonder about. And there's this complicated line, right, between respecting an adult who has voluntarily gone missing, if you will, and worrying for an adult who maybe is in an unsafe situation or maybe is being controlled.
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I have a lot of opinions about it. But anyway, today we're going through headline highlights. So let's jump into the first one. And it's the case that I mentioned just a few moments ago, Madalina Kojikari, because search warrants have now been unsealed.
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The fact that she was found safe doesn't diminish all the other weird things that were weird enough for her friends and family to make notable to the public either. So while it seems like maybe this was all just one big misunderstanding and she just kind of wanted to, like, have this chill, unplugged vacation that then got ruined by a petty theft crime, it's all still just really weird.
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So I'm curious if more information is going to come out, if this will be the last that we're hearing about it, what the truth really is. Part of me also wondered in my mind, and this is 1000% just me speculating, but even though she's an adult, part of me wondered, was she in Vegas to do some sort of like
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escort work or something like that and that she was embarrassed or shy about it or wanted to keep it private and that's why she didn't tell her family I don't really know so we'll see but it was something that caught my eye so you guys are my best friends and I just wanted to come on here and talk with my best friends about it okay sue me sue me all right now let's talk about Brian Koberger and all of the Idaho 4 updates and what's going on in Idaho as we're all gearing up waiting for this trial to happen
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So recently, there have been some pretty interesting updates when it comes to Brian Koberger's upcoming August 2025 trial. His defense team has definitely been putting in overtime these past few weeks, I will say that much. And on January 23rd, his defense team went before a judge with new motions. And what they were asking for could honestly really make or break the case against him.
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His team claimed that the majority of the evidence against him was from, quote, an unconstitutional genetic investigation process. And they were arguing that it directly went against his Fourth Amendment rights. The evidence that they're referring to specifically came from something that is called Investigative Genetic Genealogy, or IgG.
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But IgG is the same thing that got the Golden State Killer caught all those years later. And to put it in much more simpler terms, it's used whenever DNA is found at a crime scene and when that DNA doesn't match anything in the standard law enforcement database from previous crimes committed.
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So instead, they start going into the genetic databases like 23andMe, AnswerStreamy, youknowyouandme.com, that sort of thing. And in this case, specifically, the IGG was used to find, quote, touch evidence or trace evidence on that knife sheath that was left behind at the crime scene of the Idaho 4 murders. and it was used to find Brian as a possible suspect in the case.
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Now, Madalina Kojikari was a name that began sweeping the headlines after her mother, Diana, reported her as missing on either December 13th or December 15th of 2022. There are conflicting reports on the exact date, but either way, Madalina was just 11 years old at the time.
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His lawyer argued that the IgG evidence then led to a string of other pieces of evidence, which should all be thrown out if the IgG evidence is thrown out. These are things like his DNA being taken from the garbage, his phone records, surveillance of his parents' home. I mean, the list goes on.
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And basically, they have a problem with pretty much everything against him, and they're trying to get it all thrown out. And that wasn't all that they asked for, though.
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His defense team argued that once he was identified as a potential suspect, they believe that law enforcement purposefully omitted crucial evidence when getting the search warrant for his apartment, also the one for his parents' house, his car, his cell phone, and his DNA. Because of that, they want all of that evidence thrown out as well.
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They even went as far as saying that the search warrants were, quote, tainted with police misconduct. The two-day hearing began last Thursday and were partially closed to the public to the judge's fear of information getting back to the potential jurors that are set to be selected in July. Because of that, we don't know a whole lot of the nitty-gritty details of what exactly his team argued.
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At first, the media didn't have any information on what the whole police misconduct argument was all about, but now it's being reported that it has to do with the investigator's interview with the surviving roommate.
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His defense team allegedly claimed that the roommate told the authorities that she had been drinking on the night of the murders, but that law enforcement didn't disclose that crucial information to the judge. They claimed that the surviving roommate's exact statement was, I don't know any of it. Like half this stuff, I don't know if it was a dream or if it's real.
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And there are a lot of things that caused this case to be a big headline, but I would say that the thing that stuck out the most and really turned it into the media sensation that it is today is that Madalena had been missing for an entire three weeks by the time she was reported missing.
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Now, even though the hearing was last week, there hasn't been any announcement as far as what the judge ruling is as of this recording. However, and maybe I'm reading the room wrong, this judge didn't really seem very persuaded by what Brian's defense team was saying. Not really at all. There were times he was like rubbing his face, shaking his head.
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He even literally was laughing out loud at the absurdity of it all.
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And again, maybe I'm just interpreting what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing and it's wrong, I don't know. Even though it's pretty scary to imagine all of this evidence against Brian potentially being thrown out, it is pretty common for these kinds of things to happen pre-trial, so this isn't anything that we haven't seen before.
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His defense is going to do everything possible to get as much as possible thrown out, and I would imagine that between now and August, there will be even more updates like this one. So stay tuned. We don't know what's happening here. I know there are a lot of people who are in like the Brian Koberger is innocent camp. And while I personally don't quite sit there myself, I understand why.
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On top of that, her mother Diana only reported her missing after suspicions had already been raised by her school. She had missed so many days in a row that I don't know if it was the truancy officer or who it was that stepped in, I believe it was, but they were like, we need to lay eyes on Madalena. We need to make sure she's okay. Like, what's going on here?
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So I think we all just have to wait and see how this trial shakes out. But it is a case we have been following very closely for several years. And for those of you who are unfamiliar with this case, although I'm sure most of you have heard about it at least in some capacity by now, I will link the deep dive.
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But it was the horrific quadruple murder of the four Idaho students in the fall a couple of years ago. And it was just...
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absolutely barbaric so whether it's brian or somebody else responsible i just hope that these kids and their families get the justice and they deserve and my personal opinion is that brian is the guy and that they got their guy but i could be wrong we'll see so that's what we've got this week for headline highlights guys i know it was a longer episode than usual but we just had so much to talk about with each other now as a reminder i'll be back on the mic on monday morning with a deep dive into an all new case that's over on the podcast and then later in the week i'll be on youtube
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But if you feel like you need even more content to binge going into your weekend because your favorite creators or podcasters aren't uploading or you've just, you know, you've tapped into everything and you've run out of things to listen to, every single Friday I put out a bonus episode and it's like a mini case deep dive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And you can get access to that either on Patreon, which is patreon.com slash Annie Elise.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
or over on Apple Podcasts and the episode that is coming out this Friday is kind of a wild one where the 911 call blew the whole case wide open but what was so unsettling and unnerving was that the 911 call came from a five-year-old little girl and it just kind of like again blew the case wide open it's incredibly frustrating too because it involves a friend a family it's just disgusting
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So you can take a listen to that. And if you sign up for those bonus episodes that we release every Friday, right now you'll tap into, I think we have like 75 episodes uploaded there right now. So you will have like a library of content to binge. But if that's not your jam and if you don't want to do that, that's totally fine too. I will be back with you on the mic Monday for an all new deep dive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
All right, thank you guys so much for tuning in to today's episode of Headline Highlights. And until I talk with you again, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, just get a divorce, and just be a good human. All right, bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So there really was suspicious activity right from the get-go. Madalena was last seen on November 21st, 2022 on surveillance video when she was getting off the school bus. And in this video, it really doesn't paint any sort of sinister picture. It's her carelessly just getting off the bus, messing with her hair, excited for Thanksgiving break. And
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
It's a video that has now been burned into a lot of people's minds, myself included. And when it comes to this case, the internet sleuths were all coming up with theory after theory. I mean, from Diana purposefully hiding Madalena away, to sex trafficking, to her mom and stepdad basically exchanging her for money. I mean, you name it, the theories were out there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And at the end of the day, this case, it's still unsolved. And a number of theories could hold smaller pieces of the truth for all we know. I mean, who knows? Now, at the time that all of this was really big in the news, Diana and Christopher, Diana's husband and Madalena's stepdad, were both arrested for failing to report Madalena as missing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Diana pleaded guilty and Christopher was found guilty as well. They both have since served their time and have been released, which I have to say, it's so crazy that so much time has already passed since we first started covering this case, so much so that they already are released. But like I said, I have a few videos already up on my YouTube channel where I cover this case in much more depth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So definitely go check those out for the whole deep dive. But there were allegations of like Diana being a mail order bride, about abuse in the house, about him covering for the wife, the wife covering for him. It's really complex. And I go into all of those theories over in the deep dive. But for now, let's get into the more recent updates.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So just recently, some of the search warrants in Madalena's case have finally been unsealed to the public. Now, I want to be clear, this isn't the first time that certain search warrants have been either unsealed or partially unsealed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But this new round of documents that have been released do have some pretty interesting bits of information that just really continue to add to the mystery of it all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
There have been some previous speculations about whether or not Diana had been burning some of Madalena's things after her disappearance, and these new documents shed light onto some of the things that were recovered in the searches of Madalena's home, and it definitely seems like Diana was keen on getting rid of these things, or at least trying to get rid of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Madalena's mattress, some of her clothing, her Halloween costume from that year, and even some family photos were all found in a fire pit outside of their house, half burnt, still salvageable enough to identify what they all were, but still attempted to have been disposed of. However, there was one thing found in that fire pit that did not belong to Madalena.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And the warrant reads that, quote, a carpet from the home's upstairs spare bedroom was also inside the fire pit. Now, I'll be honest, when it says carpet, I'm not sure if they mean it was a literal square that was cut out of the carpet or if maybe they are referring to a smaller area rug or something like that. But either way, it's extremely odd.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
My mind starts going in a million different directions when I think about it. For example, like, was there maybe blood on the carpet and they were trying to dispose of it? Could the upstairs spare bedroom have been some sort of crime scene where they needed to get rid of any possible trace of evidence? Did the detectives find anything else suspicious in that room?
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
I mean, I could go on forever and none of it is good by any means. The warrant also shed some light on what exactly the detectives were looking for when they were checking the house. According to a local news outlet, the detectives swabbed stains in several different areas of the house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
like one of the light switches as well as on the carpet in one of the bedrooms i mean which bedroom it was it wasn't specified whether it was madalina's room or the spare room where that rug or carpet or whatever was in the fire pit came from we don't know but something that was no secret to the public was that both diana and christopher's phones were seized when this case was first happening and these new documents show two really crazy things that were found that i really quickly want to dive into
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
The first one was that one of the phones seized in December of 2022, though it doesn't state which phone, it had a Discord account on it with 37 unread messages. Now, based on the investigation into the account, they believe that the account was Madalena's or, at the very least, was supposed to look like Madalena's.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Now, whether or not that was actually her behind the screen, that's up in the air. But a lot of people are saying, okay, well, what's the big deal about this? Well, let me tell you. Even though Discord is an app that can be completely harmless, the investigators also stated that they believe that they found what could potentially be linked to sexual exploitation of a minor.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
discord is one of those apps where i actually use discord for our private group chat where we're talking about true crime every single day all different cases just like almost as a group chat on your phone but you don't have to give your phone number you just create a screen name like a chat room dating myself back to the aol days
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
so the problem with that is that a lot of people a lot of young people i should say use discord to send things anonymously to be anonymous if they meet somebody on a video game or roblox or whatever it is they exchange discords and i think you can actually even play video games now on discord i'm not sure
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Hey, True Crime Besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialist League. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise, your true crime bestie, here to break down everything that is going on in the true crime world this week.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But basically, it's kind of, it's not untraceable, but it does give you more of like a layered piece of protection. And now they're saying that they think that they found content that could be linked to the sexual exploitation of a minor.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Now, the second thing that I want to go over was that the warrants revealed that after searching Diana's phone, she had apparently paid a priest in Moldova a whopping four grand in the weeks following Madalena's disappearance.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
The payments were split, some before talking with him on a phone call for 10 minutes and then some after, but it almost seemed like a down payment or a deposit for something. Then the final payment came after, which I have to say is just strange, not to mention $4,000 is an insane amount of money for whatever this 10-minute phone call entailed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And to a priest of all people, it's even more strange. I mean, maybe it was some sort of spiritual forgiveness type of thing. I don't know. There were also a lot of rumors that because of the abuse or what the stepdad was involved with in Madalena's disappearance, again, all alleged, just do your own research. Nothing has been proven.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But a lot of people were saying that the reason her mom didn't report her as missing right away is because she is the one who tried to hide Madalena, that she had someone
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
i don't want what's the word i'm looking for like smuggle her out of the country and that she paid a fee to get madalena to safety away from the stepfather is that true again i don't know it's all in the deep dive now maybe one of the biggest takeaways from this resurgence in this case is that the cornelius police specifically deputy chief jennifer thompson told the media that they believe that madalena is still alive now it's one thing for a case to fizzle out and for the detectives to believe there's no chance that a kid is still alive
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
but for investigators to believe that she is still possibly alive when we're now coming up on year three of this thing i mean this is huge it gives this case some much needed hope now there was something else from the announcement that the deputy gave that i want to touch on because it really does tie back into the theories that i mentioned at the beginning and even some of the theories that i talked about you know back in 2023 when i last covered this case
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But she's quoted as saying, quote, Someone is still out there that has the bit of information as to what happened to her and where she is. I think Diana possibly has that information. Diana was officially named a suspect in Madalena's case in July of 2024, even though people were more than suspicious of her long before then.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And even though no other charges have ever been made against her, the investigators have made it very clear that this is not a cold case and that nothing is off the table yet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
As much as I can hope and pray that we will one day have the answers to this case that makes it all finally come together and, you know, make some sense, I can't help but worry that it might be another JonBenet sort of case, where we still will be questioning what the heck happened 15 years from now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Or maybe there will be a huge break in the case and one day we'll be getting an insane Netflix tell-all by Madalena herself. I don't know. It really could go either way. There are just so many elements to this case that don't sit entirely right with me. And if you've been following it, you probably know what I'm talking about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
There's, you know, allegations of drug use, of course, the exploitation, the physical harm inside the home, the fact that there were so many delays in reporting her missing, and then cover-ups, and then this fire pit of...
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
her personal belongings and seemingly evidence outside of the home like it doesn't make sense but then saying that she's still alive or they believe she's still alive i don't really know where to go from here so we are following this case again very closely and i will keep you updated now moving into our next segment john doe has been identified as missing 28 year old and also potentially linked to possible female serial killer
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Now, I want to say from the start that this next case is one that definitely caught my attention because it's a frustrating one. Because even though it seems like we know a whole lot, it's also like we know absolutely nothing. Regardless, I'm curious to see where all of this will go. So let's just get into it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
On January 21st, a John Doe was confirmed as being the remains of a 28-year-old man named Santino Cardella. Santino had been reported missing all the way back in April of 2022. Santino, known as Tino by his close family and friends, was from Colorado Springs, and he was described as living a transient lifestyle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Not much is known about his actual disappearance, like who reported him missing or when he was exactly last seen, but right away the Colorado Springs Police Department made it known that they were looking into a potential foul play situation being involved in this. But again, the exact details as to why are still unknown, and that was almost three years ago.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
So even when I was trying to look up articles on this case from 2022 and 2023, there really wasn't much to work with. I don't know if that was due to lack of information or lack of update, or maybe the investigators have kept it under wraps, hoping they were close to a resolution. I'm not sure.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But in October of 2024, the Colorado Spring Police were tipped off about a property that the tipster felt might have Santino's remains on it. It was in Pueblo, Colorado, which is about a 45-minute drive away from Colorado Springs. So the investigators launched a full-blown search, serving a search warrant for six different parcels of land, and sure enough, there were remains found on the property.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
Again, not a whole lot of details have been shared about this specific tip or even the area where the remains were found. We don't know whose property it was or what the exact details of the tip were, and in fact, the remains weren't even identified as being Santino's until the 21st, which was how the remains were listed as a John Doe for so many months.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
and remember this is someone who had been missing for over two years when the body was finally found so his remains were just that remains it wasn't like his family could come in and just easily verify his body based on what he looked like or what he had been wearing and even though they were able to later identify his body we don't know as of right now what his cause of death or manner of death was
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
And today's episode is Headline Highlights, where if you've been a listener to the podcast for a while, you know Headline Highlights comes out on the podcast every Thursday, on YouTube every Friday, and we break down everything that's going on in a week in the true crime world, whether it's new updates, breaking cases, updates to cases we've been following, whatever it may be.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
We don't even know for sure at this point if they are aware of those things yet, or if they will ever be able to tell. Sometimes, as time passes, depending on how the person died, it could be really difficult to pinpoint an exact cause of death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?
But like I said, his disappearance was always handled as if foul play was possibly involved, so I'm sure that it is still something that they're heavily looking into. So now let's get into how exactly his death might be linked to a potential female serial killer. Because that's a really huge part about this discovery.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
I mean, if the security camera footage wasn't enough, an anonymous witness even came forward with text messages that are apparently from Yolanda where she confesses to the entire thing. And according to the affidavit released, these text messages say, quote, So on March 22nd, the Mexico officials announced that they had found Yolanda and they had her in their custody.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
So she is now in the custody of the U.S. Marshals and she is facing murder charges once again.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Now, this next case is one that is very, very sad and very upsetting, and honestly, it's heartbreaking to even say it out loud. But last Friday, on March 21st, 14-year-old Aniyah Zachary of Baytown, Texas, was fatally shot four times on the playground outside of her apartment complex. And the fact that, quote, fatally shot and playground are even in the same sentence is just a complete nightmare.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And as it turns out, it wasn't like Anaya was shot and killed by some random stranger, or even a full-blown adult for that matter, not that it would make it any better, but her murderer was another classmate. Now, due to the perpetrator being a minor himself, we don't know his name, but we do know that he was 13 years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And like I said, he was in the same class as Anaya, who was only 14 years old. Now, what led to this shooting was that apparently Anaya and this boy, quote, got into it on the bus ride home from school that day. And according to Anaya's godmother, Sonia, who I also believe is her legal guardian, we don't really know what they got into it about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
But apparently, it was something that the boy just was not willing to get over. So this boy then went home knowing exactly what his plans were for Anaya. He dressed in all black, put on a ski mask over his face, and then he grabbed a gun that was apparently pretty easily accessible at home. Then he walked over to Anaya's apartment complex and he shot her four times.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Now, her family knew that Anaya had recently been pretty uncomfortable with another kid at school who had been picking on her, but they didn't know the exact details, or if this was even the same kid. But they most definitely never thought that being bullied at school would end in her murder. Understandably, Anaya's family is not only heartbroken, but very frustrated.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
mainly with this young boy's parents sonia has even made it clear that she forgives the young boy himself but that she does feel like his parents should be held accountable for what happened that day because although they didn't pull the trigger they still failed to keep a destructive lethal weapon away from a 13 year old kid even if he hadn't ended up doing what he did it still is just such a huge risk and safety hazard for him and any other potential kids who are in the home
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
plotted her best friend of five years death, but it didn't really end up how she thought it was going to. It didn't quite land where she thought it would. We're also going to talk about that manhunt that was ongoing in California for who law enforcement declared and deemed as the California Black Widow. She's the one who had already served prison time for killing her previous husband.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Right now, the boy is confirmed to be in police custody, but we don't really have a lot of other information other than that. We don't know what charges he's potentially facing. We don't know if his parents are possibly in any sort of legal situation or legal trouble. It's all still pretty new. The whole thing is just so new.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
insanely tragic and sad and scary especially as a parent and my heart just breaks for Anaya who had her whole life ahead of her and for her family that now has to just somehow reconcile this and grieve and deal with this tragedy and this 13 year old boy I would imagine his life is over too and is it because he didn't know how to regulate his emotions is it because he thought that this was the way out I mean
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
i don't i don't know it's it's really difficult trying to wrap your head around and explain kid on kid violence very similar to the tristan bailey and aiden fucci case she was 13 he was 14 and he stabbed her to death and when i say stabbed her to death i'm talking over a hundred times and with such force that the tip of the blade was stuck in her skull and broke off from the knife
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And that murder was so difficult to make sense of, too, because they were classmates, they were friends, and it's kid-on-kid violence, and for what purpose? He, Aiden, didn't even have a problem with Tristan. They were friendly with each other. I think there was something about he tried to make a move on her and she declined, but he, it was more so the murder happened, it could have been anybody.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
He had given himself 30 days to commit a murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
he that's what he told himself he confided in friends too saying i'm giving myself a 30-day deadline and then i'm gonna murder somebody yet nobody took him seriously even when he role played with his girlfriend at the time and like would come up behind her and choke her and hold a knife to her she didn't believe that he was serious and it turns out he was and he killed tristan and we did a big deep dive on that case and like
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
went into it, which you can find it in the history if you just search my name and Tristan Bailey, Tristan with a Y. But my point in all of that is that when you look at kid-on-kid violence, there's just something so dark about it because...
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
it's innocence on both ends or it should be innocence on both ends and i don't mean innocent sense in the sense of not guilty i mean like true pure innocence childlike and trying to wrap your mind around what would drive someone to do this to another human being but no less another child and a classmate of theirs it's just it's unfathomable it's really difficult to to wrap your mind around
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Now, let's move over, take a little break from violence for a moment, and let's talk about this batshit lunatic crazy woman, Sherry Papini. Because if you're anything like me, and let's just be honest, you probably are if you're listening to this podcast, the name Sherry Papini is just all too familiar.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And recently, she's been back in both at the headlines and in court because she is in an ongoing custody battle over her two children. And honestly, some of her requests are pretty laughable and just like obscene. Now, if for some reason you have no idea who Sherry Papini is, I will give you a super, super quick rundown. But in 2016, she left her home to go outside on a run and she disappeared.
Serialously with Annie Elise
255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Then she got married to a woman, a fire captain, and then she ended up dead. She was on the run for several weeks. She's now been found, and so we're going to talk about all of that. We also are going to talk about a teenage girl who died at the hands of her own classmate, which, like, unfortunately, all these other cases, that case is also gruesome.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Her case immediately blew up in the media. I mean, think Gabby Petito, but even bigger. It was this mother, this blonde haired, beautiful woman, mother of a few kids. Everybody wanted to find out what happened to her. Everybody wanted her to be reunited back with her family. And everybody was, you know,
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fearful of like who took her where is she is she okay then a month later sherry reappeared and not only was she covered in bruises but she had this entire elaborate story of being kidnapped and being continuously beaten during her month-long kidnapping nightmare except the entire thing ended up being a big fat zero a big fake like balloon boy i mean nobody kidnapped her nobody beat her
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She just willingly disappeared for a month and a half, I think it was in total, and inflicted every single injury on herself. It was nuts. I'm talking so much so, and I'm going to use some expressive language here for a moment, be warned. But she wanted to go down. She was from the northern area of California. She went down to Southern California, literally like right in my neck of the woods.
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And she like reunited with her ex and they had this like month long fuck fest where they were like re in love and like hanging out. And then when it was time to go back home, she's like, oh, well, I need to have injuries. I need to make my story believable. So she even went to a freaking hobby lobby.
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and got what like what is it called like a soldering iron like one of those little like thing like a branding type thing and she branded herself and like gave herself bruises like took it to the extremes luckily it was proven to all be fake and she just went off and wanted to gallivant with her ex-boyfriend for a while So she was ultimately sentenced to 18 months in prison.
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And on top of that, her husband, Keith Papini, filed for divorce, which at first he was like defending her. And I think a lot of us saw those interviews and we're kind of like, you can't defend this lady. She's nuts. But then he finally, I think, like saw the light and filed for divorce. And that was back in 2022 when she was sentenced.
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So now she's a free woman, but her story, of course, it still grips people, mainly for its shock value, right? There was even a more recent documentary that came out just last year about Sherry's story. It came out on Hulu, and I believe it was called The Perfect Wife.
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And the documentary ended up being a huge topic of conversation at the custody hearing last Friday, because Kevin, the ex-husband, was also a big part of this documentary. And he claimed that his involvement in this documentary was mainly something like, it was something he went back and forth on for a while, but it was mainly for the sake of his children. That's why he participated.
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He wanted to show the world that despite having this like psychotic mother, the children were doing okay. They were thriving without her. That was why he wanted to participate in this. And to be clear, Keith has now had full custody of the now 10 and 12-year-old this entire time.
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But for whatever reason, Sherry is now wanting to be more involved, and basically just wants to pretend like none of this ever even happened. And her exact request was to seek reunification with one child and increased visitation rights with the other. Now Keith, the dad, understandably has been fighting against this because... Even though what Sherry did was back in 2016, it is very concerning.
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And there's also even more allegations than just this. During the docuseries, Keith shared that over the years, his kids have confided in him and opened up more about their mother, more things that she did or they claim that she did, which these things are truly disgusting.
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Because apparently, the kids told Keith they remembered Sherry allegedly soaking rags full of rubbing alcohol that she would then put inside of a Ziploc bag.
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We're going to talk about Sherry Papini because that lunatic is back in the news, and I didn't think I'd ever be talking about her again, but here I am. And there's a couple other cases I want to talk to you about. I also did drop a one-hour-long deep dive into all of the news of what's been going on in the Idaho 4 case. You know, the brutal quadruple murder that took place in Moscow, Idaho.
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And from there, she would allegedly tie a string around their neck and the bag, sort of like a makeshift necklace almost, so that the alcohol-soaked bag with that rag was just right under their noses, where they would just constantly be inhaling it.
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and these fumes, understandably, would give them these like massive headaches and make them just overall not feel very well, which would then in turn prompt Sherry to take them to the doctor. Think Munchausen's by proxy. And again, this is all alleged, but if it's true, it makes complete sense why Keith is fighting so hard to make sure that Sherry doesn't worm her way back into these kids' lives.
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I mean, she's a danger. She's already proven to be unbalanced. She's proven to be you know, not take regard for her own safety or her, like, her well-being, mental well-being of her own kids by leaving them for a month, all for her own personal disgusting reasons.
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But then if these allegations are true, it's like, not to get dramatic, but could you have another Powell situation on your hands here where it's one of those things where, I'm gonna take the kids with me, and I'm gonna take all of us out.
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I mean, and I'm not trying to be dramatic, but it's like, you can't be too careful with situations like this, especially when there's already a proven track record of, like, instability, right? And her hat kind of being mentally unwell and unstable.
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And there's also the fact that Sherry still isn't being honest about what really happened, which, I gotta say, has to be really concerning as the kids' sole guardian. 🎵
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So in the custody hearing, Sherry apparently really laid into Keith for being part of this documentary. And the court filings claimed that Sherry argued that Keith was, quote, revisiting the past and reopening old wounds rather than focusing on moving forward, all at the expense of our children.
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On top of that, she asked for the court to block her kids from watching this documentary, which I gotta say, that is pretty rich. You think he's living in the past, that he's the one who's putting your kids in emotional turmoil or danger by allowing them or optioning them to watch the documentary?
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Uh, no, you bitch, you bitch left them when they were toddlers so that you could go away for a month to decompress and have sex with your ex-boyfriend. Like, what are you talking about? But now because you have been caught and you live in so much shame, you don't want them to see that documentary? It's not even like she came home and was like, oh my god. I'm so sorry. I can't believe I did this.
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I've had some sort of mental break. I just, you know, being a mom is so hard. I felt like I just needed me time. I didn't know what else to do. I can't believe I even did that. I'm so sorry. No, she came back with this whole elaborate hoax story about even describing the people who kidnapped her, the van that she was in, what happened to her.
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The only reason she got caught was because she got caught. It wasn't her own on her own volition of coming forward or feeling remorse, so the fact that now she wants to protect that secret so that her kids aren't exposed to all of the details? No. Sorry, lady. Like, no. No, no, no, no, no.
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Now, we still don't have any information on how this hearing went as far as what was approved or denied, but I imagine by the time this episode goes up, there probably will be more information out there, but I, for one, am very curious to see how it all plays out.
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Because over the past few weeks, there's been a lot of information that has come out. It started with the 911 call, the transcripts, and the text messages from that morning. But now... As more time has gone on, we also are finding out more about his Amazon history, his Amazon perch history, him being Brian Koberger.
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Now, there are a few more cases I want to talk to you about, especially the one about this couple who adopted the five siblings and like forced them to be their own personal slaves. So we're going to talk about all of that. But first, we are going to take a quick break. So this next case that I want to go over, it is so disgusting and so disturbing and just so horrifying on so many levels.
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However, there is a positive in the situation because there has now been an arrest finally made. So let's dive into it. A little over a month ago on February 3rd, 2025, the Pueblo County Sheriff's Office was contacted about an unconscious elderly woman. At the home was 76-year-old LaVon Hoff, who was unresponsive and looked like she had also been attacked.
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The woman was sadly pronounced dead at the scene, and at first, they weren't really sure what had happened to her. I mean, yes, there was a lot of blood, I mean, a ton of blood, and she definitely hadn't just died peacefully in her sleep or of natural causes, I mean, that was for sure. But she seemingly was all alone in the house.
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Or, at least, she was the only human in the house, because this place was a literal zoo. All around her deceased body, there were several dogs just running loose on the prowl and seemed to be kind of in disarray. But a quick search of the entire home showed that those few dogs were just barely scratching the surface of what was going on inside this house.
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Because inside the rest of the home, there were two dozen dogs of different breeds, different sizes, as well as seven birds that were caged. Let me just do that math for you really quick. Two dozen, 24 dogs running around. 24 dogs running around and seven birds, which I'm like really scared of birds actually. That would freak me the fuck out.
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But it's interesting because LaVon suffered from dementia and in the pretty late stages of it because of this, she was completely dependent on her daughter, 47-year-old Jessica. She needed constant care 24-7. She literally could not do a single thing for herself.
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Now, it turns out that Jessica was living with her mom and had also become her full-time caretaker, which not allowing her mom to wither away in some nursing home sounds somewhat noble. It's not an easy job to be a full-time caretaker. That is until you learn that she was completely neglectful, not only to her mother, but all of those animals that were in her care.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. And you know what time it is, you know what day it is. It's Thursday, so that means headline highlights. We have got so much to talk about this week and what's going on right now in the true crime world.
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So a total of 31 animals were inside that home. Because in addition to those two dozen dogs, it turns out that Jessica had a grand total of 54 dogs and seven birds on this property. That's 61 different animals. 61 animals that she neglected and didn't take care of, in addition to her ill mother.
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So on that particular day, Jessica left her dementia-ridden mother home alone, all so she could go out and run some errands. But while she was gone, her mom was attacked and brutally mauled by all of the dogs inside of her home. That's what ultimately killed her. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine being mauled to death by multiple dogs? I don't know, guys.
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That is really freaking scary to think about and painful, painful, like being ripped apart. So on March 21st, 2025, Jessica was arrested and she was charged with criminal negligence resulting in the death of an at-risk adult. And she was also charged with 54 separate counts of aggravated cruelty to animals.
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We also are learning about the text message and social media activity of the roommates the morning of the murder before they called 911. Their Snapchat activity, Instagram activity, things like that. Some messages before
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The entire thing is just so insane and it's heartbreaking that her mom died, probably not even understanding what was going on or why she was all alone. Now let's talk about this evil couple, this evil, evil couple. And like I said, this is a difficult one to hear, guys. That's why I wanted to put it last. If you gotta pause it or you gotta take a beat, I completely understand.
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So it all started in a town called Sissonville, West Virginia, and this was back in October of 2023. Some concerned neighbors called the authorities with some information that was very, very unsettling. They reported that two teenagers, just 14 and 16 years old, were being locked inside a shed. And when the sheriff's deputies showed up to check it out, what they found inside was just horrifying.
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The shed had no running water, no bathroom, no beds. It had just a dirty sleeping bag, a broken AC unit, a camping toilet, and a cooler with rotting food inside of it. That's all. It was filthy, it was hot, and it smelled awful. But what's even more heartbreaking is that these weren't just two kids.
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They were part of a group of five siblings, all five of them who had been adopted by Jeannie Whitefeather and Donald Lance. And all of them were living in truly inhumane conditions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
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back and forth between the two of them not only from the early morning hours when the murder was taking place or shortly after it took place but then more around eight in the morning before the 911 call was made we of course are going to talk about the now infamous selfie that i'm sure so many of you have seen on your feeds at some point or another over the last week but it's a selfie that brian coberger took of himself in front of a bathroom which seems to not have a shower curtain
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... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...,,, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, Thank you. Thank you. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . en, I Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Many find that interesting because when they searched his apartment, a shower curtain was missing. And in this selfie, he is giving a thumbs up, smiling for the camera, and it was taken at 10.31 a.m. So, about, what, six hours after the murders. Now, the reason that this selfie is now being brought into question, of course, a selfie doesn't prove somebody's guilt, but...
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Thank you.
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The reason they're bringing that in as evidence and they want to bring it into trial is because one of the surviving roommates, Dylan, she, remember, came face-to-face with the intruder and all she could use to describe what this person looked like was their bushy eyebrows. Since then, it appears in some new hearings and court footage and photos that Brian looks more well-groomed, well-kept.
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However, in this selfie picture that he took...
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six hours after the murders he does in my opinion have very bushy eyebrows so the reason they want to bring that in as evidence is to say look this was right after the murders happened this was the state of his eyebrows this is what she can use as like the identifying marker not that that's ever you know 100% rock solid or conclusive but that's the whole reason that the picture is being talked about and entered in
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So anyway, my point in saying that is I did a one-hour deep dive, like dissecting all of the new details, the Snapchats, the social media activity, the purchases, all of that, and also included a lot of the interview from Kaylee Gonzalez's own father, Steve. He has been very outspoken about this.
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He's also been very outspoken about the public and how they have been dragging these roommates through hell the past few years. So we break it all down, talk about all of it. So it's in the feed. It's not only on YouTube, but it's also in the feed here on the podcast. It's like one episode or two episodes back. You can go listen. And gosh, sorry, I know this intro, guys, is so, so long.
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You're like, get to it, Annie. Like, shut up. We don't care. But I just want to also mention that Monday we dropped probably the most unhinged episode that I have done to date. And the reason I say that is because I don't even know how to explain it without you guys seeing it or hearing it.
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But it's like, this man, I couldn't help but, like, laugh out of secondhand embarrassment at this criminal and what he was trying to get away with. And... If you haven't listened to it yet, do yourself a favor and not only listen to the full episode, but go on my social media right now. You can go on Instagram, TikTok, wherever. It's at underscore Annie Elise.
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And look at the clip that I posted because that is a clip of one of his interviews. And it gives you just like a little snacky preview of what this loser creep was up to. And so I basically drag him to hell in the episode and expose all of his stuff. But it's like unbelievable.
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And I was seeing some of your guys' comments over on Spotify and I was like rolling laughing because I was like, I'm so glad that it's not just me who thinks that this guy is just like so deranged and like...
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you know lunatic behavior but anyway let's jump in now into these new cases the reason you're here what we talk about on headline highlights and look I'm going to look at my monitor right now and it says we're already seven minutes in big yikes sorry guys I promise I didn't think that it was going to take me that long but
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I'm talking new cases, updates in cases, Sherry Papini, which is a name I never thought I was going to say again. I mean, we just have a lot to discuss, and there is one case that has been at, like, the forefront of my mind that I not only can't escape, but I can't stop thinking about because it just makes me enraged.
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you know, whatever, maybe it's just more time of us together, you know, just the two of us, we can make, I was, okay, okay, I was gonna sing the we deserve each other from Wicked, but somehow I ended with Will Smith, just the two of us, so I was gonna say, we deserve each other, you and my true crime besties, but then it got turned into just the two of us, Will Smith, I don't know, okay, I'm gonna stop talking, all right, let's start talking with, let's start talking,
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Guys, words are hard. Why is today so hard for me? We are going to start with the case about this nurse in Utah who plotted her best friend's murder. Let's start there.
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So this is the first case that I want to dive into, and it involves a lot of really shady behavior because it centers around a woman who spent years just secretly plotting to try to cash in on her best friend's $1.5 million life insurance policy. And in August of 2024, after secretly plotting for years, she finally made her move.
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But here's the wild part in all of it, because after months of digging, the authorities just recently made an arrest. So let me get into this case and all of the recent updates. Let's go back to August 12th, 2024, because that's when a call came in to 911 from a man who was claiming that his niece was unconscious and that she was struggling to breathe.
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Now, his niece was 38 years old, and her name is Casey Terry. So he explained to the operator that Casey was suffering from some major health issues. But more than that, and more concerning than that, her nurse, and also coincidentally her best friend, 47-year-old Megan Sudwell, had refused to call 911 because of an alleged DNR that Casey had apparently signed.
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And for those of you who might not be familiar with what a DNR is, or you don't watch Grey's Anatomy, it stands for Do Not Resuscitate. And it's a document that a person who is terminally ill can sign, or even not terminally ill, but something that you can put in your healthcare directive, in your will, or in your estate planning, where it basically says that whenever their time comes,
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They don't want any medical professionals to do life-saving measures, to intervene with artificial life, with life-saving measures, with anything like that, that it's their time and just to let it happen. However, in this situation, the first responders still rushed to the scene. And when they got there, nurse best friend Megan would not let them get near Casey to help her.
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She explained to them that Casey had terminal cancer, and again, she had signed that DNR. However, while they were at the scene, one of the paramedics saw a diabetic needle, which to them was a huge red flag almost immediately. So then when they saw that, they pretty much kind of just said, like, screw this. We're taking her to the hospital regardless of what you're saying.
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Like, something is weird. Something weird is going on here, right? And sure enough, once Casey arrived, they noted that she had dangerously low blood sugar levels. According to NBC News, her blood sugar was at a 14, when even just 40 is considered dangerously low. The weird thing, though, is that Casey was not diabetic.
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So the hospital tried doing everything that they possibly could do to save Casey. But sadly, she ended up dying three days later, at just 38 years old. Now, there were a lot of questions surrounding Casey's death, but the autopsy report would later emphasize just how suspicious all of it was.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Like, if you could see my face right now for the audio listeners, I know you can on YouTube. It just makes me so mad, and it's the case of this couple who adopted five black siblings and then literally died.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
It showed that Casey's cause of death was an overdose of promethazine, and it was also noted that the specifics were, quote, "...probable insulin or other drugs." So that in and of itself was huge, right? But it also showed that Casey had never even had cancer. In fact, she didn't have any medical conditions. She was completely healthy.
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And on top of this autopsy report coming back with these, you know, bombshell findings that she had a clear medical history, no cancer, all of these things, it also came back saying there was absolutely no DNR on file anywhere. She never signed a DNR. It was all made up. So what the heck really happened here, right? Something was wrong.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Something wasn't right here because it's like here you have this healthy woman who died at 38 years old. Her best friend and nurse said she signed a DNR and also was a cancer patient. But come to find out, none of that is true. So they started investigating. And the investigators eventually recovered over 28,000 text messages between Megan and Casey.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And when they went through these text messages, what happened became very, very clear. Crystal clear, you could argue. Beginning in December of 2019, Megan, the best friend and the nurse, began convincing Casey that she was very, very sick. Now, I have no idea how Casey was convinced of this, but either way, she was.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And then the texts begin to show that Megan started telling Casey that she would help her die, help her along, help her transition due to this illness. Now, I will say, I saw a post on Casey's Facebook from back in 2020 where she was saying that she was going through chemo.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
So I think there is a lot of backstory that maybe we don't quite know at this given moment, but I think that that's pretty severe and kind of crazy to convince not only a single person that they are affected with cancer, but maybe an entire medical team if she was in fact undergoing chemotherapy, unless she was doing some sort of, you know, private chemo with her best friend.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
She thought it was chemo and it really wasn't. Again, we're still learning a lot of the details. Now, in these text messages, Megan was also apparently very transparent with Casey about the financial troubles that she was finding herself in. She was struggling financially. She was having a lot of issues with that. And she made that very clear in her text messages to her sick best friend.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
turned these siblings into their own personal slaves it is so despicable and so vile they had cameras in the shed they deprived them of like any basic human needs and so i don't know why i've seen a little bit out there about this couple and exposing them
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And, you know, sick with air quotes. So the investigators, when they saw all of these messages, were able to determine a very clear-cut motive. Like, okay, obviously this was financially driven. Now, it's not clear if Megan knows
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
knew that Casey had put her as the life insurance beneficiary on her policy, or if maybe she just assumed that Casey put her as a beneficiary, which would be a really insane thing to do. But regardless, she decided to move forward with her plan. She was going to kill her best friend so that she no longer would be in personal financial ruin.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And that's when she decided she was going to inject her with insulin, which would kill her, and she would then think, in theory, she was going to receive all the money. All the while, her best friend Casey, who was suffering, who thought she was sick, who thought she was dying, thought that her best friend was injecting her, helping her die in a peaceful and dignified way.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
I mean, can you imagine? Now, the reason that this story is back in the headlines now is because just recently on March 20th, 2025, Megan was arrested and charged with first-degree felony aggravated murder. She was also charged with third-degree felony obstruction of justice. And it's also worth mentioning that there was, in fact, no $1.5 million life insurance policy payout for Megan.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
She, for whatever reason, thought she'd get the payout, but she didn't. So the entire five-year plot of hers, the scheming, the manipulating, the convincing of the illnesses, all that was for nothing. For nothing. And now she is being charged with murder. So adios, good riddance, you are scum.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Now let's move into this other case, and we had talked about it over here on Headline Highlights a few weeks ago, and it's who they're dubbing as the Black Widow of California, who has now been caught and arrested. So as a reminder, the California Fire Captain Becky was found fatally stabbed in her own home just weeks after fighting the huge wildfires here in California.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
And the suspicions right away were toward her wife Yolanda, because she wasn't at the crime scene, and the investigators quickly assumed she had fled the country. Which seems like a pretty basic story, right? I mean, the wife gets mad for who knows what, kills her partner, then flees.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
But the crazy thing about this case, especially this one in particular, is that this was now Yolanda's second spouse to have been brutally murdered in their own home. In fact, as I mentioned at the top of this episode, she had already served time in prison from 2004 to 2013 for her husband's year 2000 murder. There were no questions about whether or not she was guilty.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
She literally had been found guilty and served time. Now, allegedly, and I say this allegedly because she hasn't been convicted, but allegedly... This next time around, she wanted to kill her spouse again. She decided to grab a knife, end her spouse's life so savagely, but she didn't want to go to jail this time. She didn't want to serve time.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
So instead, she packed her bags and she fled 45 miles south and went to Mexico. And while the investigators were working with law enforcement officials in Mexico to find Yolanda, they discovered that the home security footage had actually caught Becky's entire murder. On this footage, you can see Yolanda chasing Becky outside on their porch at 8 p.m. the night of the murder on February 17th.
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but I felt the need to come on here and like really call attention to what they did because it is some of the more gruesome house of horror type situations that I personally have ever heard of. So we're going to talk about that case because there is a lot to go over, but I want to warn you it's definitely not an easy one to hear. We also were going to talk about a nurse in Utah who
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Becky was seen heard and screaming, Yolanda, please don't, I don't want to die. Then Becky was seen with blood all down her back, no doubt already suffering from at least one stab wound, and Yolanda was seen with blood on her arms, though we can assume it was more than likely not her blood. And Yolanda's only response, which was caught on camera, was, you should have thought of that before.
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255: Evil Couple Adopts 5 Black Siblings To Be Personal Slaves, BFF Murder Plot, Teenage Murder on the Playground and Sherri Papini is Back
Can you imagine like how evil and callous you have to be for that to be your response? Your spouse is saying, please don't do this. Please don't do this. I don't want to die. And you just look at them and say, you should have thought of that before. I mean, it like sends a chill down my spine. So again, there were absolutely no doubts about who had killed Becky.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, apparently their marriage was a bit on the rocks. So because of that, Taylor decided he was going to take advantage of Valentine's Day and try to repair what was apparently so badly broken in their marriage. He really wanted to woo her. He wanted to bring the spark back. So he had planned a themed night for Deborah, and he called it Bringing Paris to You.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
He decorated their house going all out. He even had their three children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower that could just give it this like cozy Paris type of feel, like really trying to make this romantic gesture. And it sounds beautiful, right? Sounds like a really nice way to spend the night. You see drawings from your children.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It's like the music, the food, whatever else he did to decorate the house. But their night was anything from a fairy tale. Because I guess Debra didn't, like, fall back head over heels in love with him after this whole display. It didn't repair whatever the rift was within their marriage and whatever the separation or, you know, disconnect had been.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But in Taylor's exact words to the police, he said, she just didn't give a shit. That's what he said. So the couple ended up getting into a pretty heated argument. And It stemmed mainly about Taylor confronting Debra for allegedly having an affair with her co-worker. The fight then escalated.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It went from loud to then physical, and we actually know the details of everything because Taylor later confessed to all of it. He claimed that at one point, she punched him, and at another point, he was choking her. And it was a whole messy thing, just back and forth. But apparently, what really set him off was when Debra apparently said to him, "'What are you gonna do? Kill me?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And as I said, spent a lot of time with her this week recording. And so it's been a busy one, but it's also been a busy week in the true crime world because there is so much happening. I mean, there are verdicts happening. There are trials happening. There is a verdict that just came in the other day about the boy who killed his twin sister in his sleep. He was claiming sleepwalking.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
You're going to hurt me and leave our kids with no parents?' And I guess that Taylor was so mad that she questioned him this way and that this question to him seemed more of a challenge than anything else because that's exactly what he did. It like just pissed him off so much that he's like, yeah, that is what I'm going to do.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So he claimed to have gone into the kitchen where he then got what he described as being, quote, a big ass kitchen knife. Then he went back into the room where Debra was. He pinned her down and he started stabbing her over and over again. But get this, right before he began stabbing her, he grabbed her phone and he called the man that he believed that she was cheating on him with.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And this other guy, of course, answered because she was calling him and he heard this entire thing go down. The whole murder. Taylor apparently yelled to him, you know, it's your fucking fault. You want to ruin my marriage. You want to tear my family apart. This is your fault. And all this other guy could hear was Debra screaming, Debra begging for help. Just very, very intense.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Taylor ended up stabbing his wife at least 40 times, which seems just so awful and just unbelievable and incomprehensible. I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. That is true overkill. And you're probably going to want to punch me right now for saying this because I've said it before.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
and I think I say it and reference it anytime we talk about stabbing cases, but 40 times really is like 80 times because it's 80 motions. And I want you to just think about that for a moment and the amount of strength that it would take.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
If you had a pillow in front of you right now, and if you raised your arm up and put it down 40 times, so 80 moves with your arm, I'm doing about 10 right now if you're watching on YouTube and my arm's already tired.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
it and the force that you would have to go through a human body it is it takes in not only an incredible amount of strength but in my opinion in situations like this it's like adrenaline kicks in and takes over and it's that's why a lot of the time these cases are described as crimes of passion overkill because you're just going going going you're so mad the adrenaline's taking over it's like you're not even realizing what's happening like they're probably long dead and
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
a couple stab wounds in there's no need to do 40 but it's almost like you have tunnel vision in that moment so it's just it's hard to wrap your mind around it now even worse is that this entire time the three kids were upstairs asleep in their beds they had no idea that they were going to wake up and essentially lose both of their parents
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, even though he admitted to everything and basically gave a full confession, he's of course now pleading not guilty, which I can't really be too surprised with that. That is a tactic, and I understand. But this kind of goes back, and I'm going to have to rename it, but like to my version of the let them theory of the don't be, like, If she wants to cheat, okay, I guess that is let them.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Let them. Don't kill someone to where now your three children have lost both of their parents. For what? You could have probably just as easily, I get it, it was a jab to your ego. You set up this beautiful night. You're probably heartbroken that she allegedly cheated on you, that she is leaving you maybe. I don't know. But the alternative would be, okay, you get divorced. It sucks.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It's heartbreaking. Okay. eventually i would imagine you would probably move on maybe it would take a few years i don't know but you'd still have your children they would still have you but now because you allowed the anger to come in the resentment the hostility your children are left without either parent And who wins in that situation? Certainly not you, right? I don't know. And I get it.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It's hard to be rational when you're feeling that way and you're in the moment. But there's got to be something. There's got to be something that can like some sort of checks and balances. I don't know. Now let's talk about this other case, about this convicted cannibal who has been granted conditional release. Because this didn't happen very long ago. And cannibals freak me the heck out, okay?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Prosecution was, of course, claiming otherwise, that this was intentional. I think I'm going to do a deep dive on it because when I started looking into it and finding some of the discrepancies in the information, I was like, obviously, there's no question here. Like, what do you mean?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Whether it's Armie Hamner and like what's really happening with there, if he is a cannibal or not, I don't know. Or like Hannibal Lecter or these other cases that I've actually talked about on here where people are eating human things. And I'm not gonna like try to fearmonger for a second, but I'm gonna just tell you, there is like this whole black market dark web for this.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
People are obsessed with the idea of eating other people, consuming somebody else. And It freaks me out and it honestly, it makes me want to vom. It is so disgusting. So I'm going to talk to you about this case and it might piss you off as much as it pisses me off because one of the biggest questions I think I have when I heard about this is like, why? Why?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So last Friday, a man by the name of Tyree Smith, who has been dubbed the Bridgeport cannibal killer, was granted conditional release. And firstly, I just want to go over quickly who this guy is before we get into exactly what this release means, because people do have a lot of thoughts on it.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But Tyree Smith, who was just 34 years old when this case first happened back in 2011, he had some serious issues. And as wild as this case was, the way that it happened was pretty quick and pretty straight to the point. So in 2011, Tyree's cousin saw him coming home one evening and he was carrying a bloody axe with him and chopsticks.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And he had blood smeared all over his clothes, which sounds like a horror movie, right? Like you're watching your cousin come up to you with chopsticks and axe and covered in blood, like disgusting. Now, in most cases, I'd be saying, okay, they tried to play it cool or they tried to hide the bloody axe and they tried to play it off like it was nothing. But that is not what happened here.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Because when Tyree's cousin asked what had happened, what the heck was going on, He told the truth. He simply put it that he had killed a man with his axe, he had ate his brain and his eyeball, and then he went and drank sake in the local cemetery to celebrate. Like, this was all just for fun, I guess. The victim's name was Angel Gonzalez and he was only 35 years old.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
At the time, Angel was homeless and I'm not really sure if that had a direct correlation with why Tyree chose him, but I would imagine that it very well could have been. He had a family who loved him very, very much and his family has also spoken out to this day about just how great he was and how special he was to them. Now, we still don't know the motives.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Apparently, it was just for fun, but he approached Angel and killed him with the axe, then ate his brain, ate one of his eyeballs, and then he, like, just drank sake just to celebrate. Now, due to the nature of the whole thing, Tyree was found not guilty by reason of insanity, which, I gotta say, that tracks because you gotta be, in my opinion, insane to do something like this.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It almost seemed as clear-cut as the Colin Griffith case that we talked about a couple weeks ago where this kid somehow got found not guilty, this 17-year-old kid not guilty of killing his mom, and he had also killed his daddy a year and a half prior. And he's just, you know, gallivanting around Florida completely free and, like, not a care in the world. So, I don't know.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But initially, he was given what was described as a temporary leave status. But I guess that that was later changed after this conditional release. So now, Tyree will be discharged from this hospital that he's been residing at. Yet, apparently, even though he'll be released, he still has to follow some pretty strict supervision rules.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And he still has to go to all of his different mental health appointments. You know, that kind of thing. Like check-ins and make sure that you're still on the straight and narrow. But it's kind of similar in a way, too, to the Slenderman step.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
that we had talked about probably a month ago now, and I know even more when we did the deep dive into the case, but they were also granted a conditional release. So it's not like these people are just set free, they can go roam the streets, they can go on and about their day and do whatever they want, yet they
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
are still a lot more free than some would say that they deserve I mean arguably they don't deserve to be free in my opinion you took the life of somebody else you also desecrated their corpse in my opinion and did some truly foul and heinous things whether you were insane or not at the time I don't agree with conditional release I agree you're still probably a danger and it should be punishment not even like reform or are you a threat to society but you should be punished for what you have done and again that I guess could open up like
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
A whole can of worms on here about the legal system, what's just, what's not. But if this were my family member, I would not be happy with this outcome at all. Now, a forensic psychiatrist even spoke at his hearing, saying the following about him. Quote, He also denied visual hallucinations and a desire to harm others or himself. To quote the director there at the hospital, he is a joy.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
He is considered a support to the other people there. Once he was stable, he was a really calming presence for other patients. Which, okay, like, great, but he still killed someone and ate them. That's not very calming to me. Now, Angel's family, understandably, not only have they been heartbroken from the very moment that he was taken from them...
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But they are not at all happy with how Angel's case has been handled, pretty much from the start, too. I can imagine that none of it really feels like any justice has ever been served.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, I know I very quickly skimmed over that case and all that had happened, but I do want to know your honest thoughts about his release and the opinions there. Do you lean more towards feeling like they should have just locked him up in a jail cell somewhere and then thrown away the key? Or do you side with more of the rehabilitation as being the end goal?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Can an eyeball and brain-eating cannibal really ever change like that psychiatrist claimed? Can they really be a joy and a calming presence for people? I don't know. Even if somebody, and I'm just, I'm gonna go off here for a second, so bear with me.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Even if somebody was fully rehabilitated and changed, and I was a part of group therapy, I was participating in it with them, I knew their struggles, and it seemed like they had, you know, They were struggling with mental health and now they were fine. I don't know that I would ever be calm in the presence of them, knowing what they were capable of, knowing that they had just eaten a human being.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I'm already starting to go off the rails for this episode. I apologize. I need to reel it in. So anyway, we have a lot of stuff to talk about today because there are a lot of new cases and some updates. One of the cases we're talking about is an arrest that has finally been made in a cold case from 2017 where a mom and her eight-month-old baby went missing under very suspicious circumstances.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I don't know. Maybe that's my own hang up and my own issues I have to sort through, but it feels a little weird. Now let's talk about this next case because it takes us to Cincinnati, Ohio. And this next one, unfortunately, is definitely a bit of a downer. Not that other ones aren't, but it is very, very tough.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
because some just hit you extra hard and, you know, make you feel all sorts of different things. And this case, like I said, it's from Cincinnati, Ohio, and it just recently happened on the 20th.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So at around 12.45 a.m., a call from a woman whose name has not been released, this call came into 911, and it reported that her 15-year-old son, whose name has also not been released, had shot his stepfather, who also happened to be the father of two of her other children. He had been shot multiple times, and he was unresponsive.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So in an attempt to keep everybody on the same page here, we're going to call the mom M and the boy B. So when the first responders arrived, they knew that it was a pretty serious scene because the victim had been shot 12 times. And although he was taken to the local hospital, he ended up dying from his injuries.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And even though that description already makes the case seem pretty bad all on its own, the deeper story behind it is much sadder and much darker. The victim's name was Levante Hyde, and like I said, Levante was B's stepfather and also the father of B's two siblings. So the question was, what had led to this horrible murder?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Well, sadly, B felt like he had to take things into his own hands, and he felt like he had to protect his mom, which I know that that might sound a little bit confusing, but stick with me here. Apparently, his stepfather had been not the greatest partner, like, at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And typically, I would use allegedly, but it's really not even allegedly at this point, because Levante had a more than colorful background with law enforcement when it came to assaulting women. In 2017, he was charged with assault and criminal damage. Another time, he was facing charges for biting a woman and damaging a TV.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
He also had damaged a wall and a door at her residence, but these charges were later dropped. So that very same day that B ended up shooting and killing him, Levante had put his hands on his mother.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Apparently, the stepfather and the mother got into an argument while they were driving to the store, and then he started calling her a bunch of just really mean, unnecessary things, telling her she was a whore, telling her she was a hoe, punching her multiple times in the face with a closed fist, I mean, all while still driving.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, what's interesting is the authorities had somehow ended up involved in this incident, and a warrant was even put out for his arrest. The court documents noted that the mother was a victim of Levante's, but for whatever reason, he hadn't been arrested yet. So I guess that's why the son decided to take things into his own hands.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And we still don't know a lot about the actual attack, but the prosecution is arguing that it was premeditated. They are claiming that after the son discovered what the stepfather had done to his mother, he went and found a gun, And he waited for him to come home, knowing all what he was going to do. And like I said, we still don't have a lot of bigger picture detail.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So I'm not sure if the gun was already in the home or if he somehow got it from somewhere else or somebody else. But the story is just really sad all the way around. I mean, of course, murder is never okay. So I am not condoning what this boy did at all. I don't want you to take that the wrong way or what I'm saying the wrong way. But I also can't help but feel a little bit sad for him as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Because maybe it's the protective mom in me coming out. I don't know. But he's 15 years old. He saw his mom being attacked earlier. He saw that the stepfather wasn't being arrested. Probably assumed another attack, if not something worse, was going to happen. And he just wanted to protect his mom. And at 15, he shouldn't have ever even known what it was like to see his mom bruised and beaten.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I don't know, this whole case is just really upsetting, and that's all there really is to it. We will learn more, but... It's really sad because now this mom has to deal with her son most likely going away for quite some time. He has his whole life stripped away from him, which again was his choice. He made the decision to pull that trigger. And it's just sad.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So there's a resolution there. Want to talk to you about it. We also are going to talk about a hit and run, but not just your average hit and run. It was an actual Amazon driver hit and run who literally got out of his truck, saw what he had done, jumped back in his blue Amazon truck or, you know, whatever. I'm just saying that, but delivery truck and then sped off and went away.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It's just really sad because it shouldn't have even ever been a situation that he or his mom were ever in. And so it makes me sad. We are going to take a quick break here from today's sponsor. And then we are going to talk about the Tinder scammers turned serial killer and some more stuff.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialously with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are all having a good week so far. I have been kind of like recording a lot this week.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I have talked to you guys about this before, but it is like a staple now in my website lineup, my online shopping lineup, even my closet lineup. And it is quints because first of all, who doesn't love a little bit of luxury? I know that I do. I love the cashmere of it all. I love the jewelry, all these things. But I also do not love the high price tags that go along with it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And that is why I am obsessed with quints because they are my go-to for these high quality essentials, but at prices that don't make me cry into my purse, okay? They offer timeless pieces too. They offer 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which start at only $50. They offer washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters, even 14 karat gold jewelry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And the best part is that Quince prices everything 50 to 80% lower than similar brands, all without sacrificing quality. I'll be honest, I bought
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
a travel like cashmere little sweat set not sweat set but you know what I mean like top and bottom matching set at Nordstrom about a year and a half ago and I was like this will be perfect for when I'm traveling when I'm flying it'll be great it was expensive it was like 180 dollars and I was like I don't like this but then when I heard about quince about a year ago and heard that they had cashmere I was like let me try this the set is literally the exact same almost the exact same there's like a little seeming detail that's different but it was
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
a fraction of the price. And it's held up so well. I've washed it multiple times. I still wear it every time I travel. So then when I like had faith in it, I started buying more things on Quince. I was like, okay, let me try these coats. Let me try these bed sheets. Let me try this throw blanket. This throw blanket I use every single night.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I will post it tonight on Instagram when I'm at home watching Severance on my couch because it's like cashmere. It's soft. It's amazing. I just went on a coat haul a few weeks ago and bought, and I'm talking about cashmere, but they have so much other stuff, guys. But I bought all these like beautiful coats where it has like the big shawl collar over it. It's belted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
The bed sheets, they're bamboo bed sheets. So comfortable. I told my brother about them and my sister-in-law about them. They ended up buying them all. They have a cabin up in the mountains. They bought them for all the beds there. The quality of all of their stuff is really just so good. Now I'm finding myself doing like hauls from Quince.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And so it was like my sister-in-law, our friends were always texting back and forth, like, you got to get this on Quince before it sells out again. And it's just, if you haven't tried it, you really, really need to. Sorry, I know I went off there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But the way that they're able to do these savings without sacrificing the quality is because they work directly with top factories and they cut out the middleman. So you get those same luxe materials and the same craftsmanship, but at a fraction of the price. And even better, every quince item is made in factories that prioritize safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So like I told you, I personally love all of like their home goods, their cashmere sets, their apparel items, all of those things, whether I'm dressing up or just lounging at home with my throw blanket wrapped around me during severance. I don't know, their pieces always make me just feel effortlessly put together. So give yourself the luxury that you deserve with Quince.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
We also are going to talk about a Valentine's Day massacre. And what I mean by that is like this guy got so pissed off that his partner didn't respond to the way he wanted her to about his gift that he went into like overdrive and stabbed her 40 times. And it is just like sick.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Go to quince.com slash AE for free shipping on your order and for 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash AE to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash AE Okay, guys, so this next case, it's ongoing. It's happening right now. And I'm going to be saying allegedly a lot because of that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But I don't know if it's bad luck or if it's just plain evil because both spouses of this woman have now ended up murdered. So as I said, it's happening right now. So I definitely think that we will be getting some more details and updates in the coming weeks. But it's about a woman who potentially could be a spouse killer, like a black widow, allegedly, of course. So just bear with me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So basically, back in 2000, a woman named Yolanda Marodi, who went by a different last name at the time, brutally stabbed her husband in the chest and ended up killing him. The same day that she stabbed him, she ended up turning herself in. She also had a few knife wounds on her arms. Like, maybe she was going to try and cover the whole thing up and just ended up confessing. I don't really know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But she pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter, and there are some conflicting statements on exactly how long she was sentenced. But spoiler alert, it wasn't very long at all, and she ended up getting out on parole in 2013. So after serving her time, she apparently went back to life as normal. Yolanda even ended up falling in love again and even got married, this time to a woman named Rebecca.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And Rebecca was somebody who was well-known, who was loved, and she was just very respected by a lot of different people. She worked as a firefighter captain, and she even recently helped with the devastating Eaton fires here in LA. However, on February 17th, Rebecca was found dead in her home. And get this, she was found dead with multiple stab wounds on her body.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
The San Diego Sheriff's Office announced on the 21st that Yolanda was the prime suspect in Rebecca's murder, yet they had no idea where she was. They were currently still searching for her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, just days earlier, Yolanda had posted a picture of Rebecca on Valentine's Day, clearly out of, you know, a romantic Valentine's Day gesture or something like that, saying, "'Happy Valentine's Day to my amazing wife. She is an angel to so many.'" Yet, days later, she would end up allegedly stabbing her to death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, since Rebecca's death, her friends and family members have come forward, sharing that the relationship between these two women, it just wasn't healthy. And I don't know, even knowing that, if anybody could have predicted what was to actually come, or maybe they did, given Yolanda's background, but take a listen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
We're also going to talk about this case about a Tinder scammer who not only scammed people, but also turned into a serial killer all through using the dating apps. There is also somebody who is known as the Bridgeport Cannibal who had killed a man back in 2013 and was charged, was arrested, was sentenced. But 2013 is only 12 years ago, right? And get this, he's a cannibal. He's getting released.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Both of Yolanda's marriages ending in her spouses being stabbed to death is already a huge red flag, right? But the fact that as of this recording, she's also nowhere to be found, that's even more damning. I mean, who conveniently just disappears after their wife was just brutally murdered in their home? She's not at home grieving. She's not planning a funeral.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
She basically has guilty written all over her forehead. She's like on the lam, in my opinion, right? So like I said, this is all that we know at the time that I'm recording this, which I honestly hope that by the time this goes live, they have found her. They've arrested her because I want answers, starting with why she allegedly feels the need to stab her partners when she's mad at them.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And also, did she really think that she was going to get away with this? I mean, that's not something that's easily just gonna be explained away. Too many red flags, too many coincidences, right? So we'll see where this goes. Now let's talk about this Tinder scammer turned serial killer because we hear a lot about
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
social media scams online dating scams very rarely do they end in a serial killing but even recently there was a scam what was it was like with deep fakes and AI which is getting out of hand but I don't know if you saw that woman was scammed out of like it's either like 250 grand or 500 grand because she had been talking back and forth with who she thought was Brad Pitt because they deep faked his image and videos or something and she like thought she was helping him with some sort of medical emergency and look not her fault
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
not her fault but i'm just gonna say to you guys right now if brad pitt or a nigerian prince starts dming you asking for money saying that they can't tell anybody else that they're only relying on you and that you're the one to save them they're in love with you but they can't facetime you you can't visit them they can't call you chances are brad pitt's probably not in love with you
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And especially if you're also seeing that simultaneously while he's in the hospital getting transplants or whatever he had said, whoever this fake person said, that he's also walking the red carpet places. Probably not real. He's probably not doing that. He's like, well, yeah, I had to. I just had to save him. It just makes no sense, okay? So don't send money to people. Just don't do it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So like I said, this next case is filled to the brim with like secrecy, with scams, but it doesn't end just there. it really does take scamming to a whole new level. So on February 21st, the U.S.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Attorney's Office in Nevada announced during a press conference that a nearly two-year investigation into a Las Vegas woman who was drugging and scamming all of these elderly men was finally coming to a close. Now, there's a whole backstory to this case, so I'm going to just jump right into it. But from July 2021 to December 2022,
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
43-year-old Aurora Phelps allegedly concocted this like master plan where she was swindling countless elderly men on dating apps, making them believe that they were actually exploring their relationship together, building on love with each other. But then once they actually got together, she would drug them and she would steal from them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And she had countless different accounts on all of the major dating platforms. Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, I mean, you name it. Now, of course, she never actually used her real name. She had at least 10 different known aliases that she used. So I guess she wasn't a complete amateur in this. It was pretty well crafted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But when I say steal, I don't mean she just grabbed $20 from their wallet after she drugged them and then called it a day. She definitely went to the extremes and made her time and efforts worthwhile. Now, exactly what she would do as far as scamming goes, it would really vary from victim to victim. But she carefully curated this, carefully picked them out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Getting released. So... We need to talk about that whole case and then the release and what that means. And then we're going to talk about some spouses who killed their spouses. We're going to talk about a 15-year-old who shot someone in self-defense. I mean, there is just, we've got a lot to go over. So I'm going to shut up now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And I imagined that she wanted to be 100% sure that they actually had something to take before she, like, can put her whole full plan in motion. Once they were drugged to unconsciousness, though, she would access things like their bank accounts, social security, even their retirement accounts. Now luckily, her purchases of all sorts of luxury items were pretty easy to trace back to everything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But get this, one time she even sold one of her victims Apple stock, which was estimated to be worth $3.3 million. She was hoping to kind of send all this stock or sell it all to herself, but thankfully she wasn't able to withdraw that money. But this girl was serious. She was big time. She was like the real deal when it came to scamming. She wasn't just taking shoes or jewelry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Like, she was like in the IT of it all. She was doing the admin work and really stealing from these people. So far, there are 11 known victims in total, and four of them have been involved in the whole court process. However, the police have also said that there definitely could be more, which I would believe wholeheartedly, because when you start doing things like this, you start to get greedy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
You also start to get sloppy a lot of the time, and that could be the reason that she ended up getting caught in the first place. But here's where things went very, very wrong because I'm not sure exactly what she was using to drug these men or if she was just like throwing whatever it was or Benadryl into somebody's food or drink or whatever she was doing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But when you're just being reckless and careless, it leaves room for a lot of things to go wrong. Especially because we're talking about elderly men, and elderly men's bodies aren't like they once were, and they probably were on a slew of other medications as well. So three known victims of hers actually ended up dying due to whatever she gave them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, scamming is bad enough, of course, but now we're talking about Aurora actually technically being a serial killer. So right now, she's in custody in Mexico, which is where she apparently had a second residence, and so that's where she was, and that's where she was arrested, but there are 21 different counts against her.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So I definitely will be curious to keep up with this, especially to see if any more information comes out or if any more victims come forward, anything like that, because... This could have been a whole operation that we have only barely dived into, scratched the surface with. Were other women involved? How deep did this go? Who was supplying the drugs?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
What were the drugs that led to their deaths? What really was happening? How much money in total did she actually steal from these men? It seems very sophisticated to be selling and transferring stocks and doing things like that, accessing retirement accounts, social security accounts. That is sophisticated. Was she doing this as a lone ranger on her own? Or does this go deeper?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So I'm going to follow this. I want to know more. Now that's what we've got this week for headline highlights. But I do want to remind you, aside from the Monday episode and headline highlights on Thursday, we also have our bonus episodes every Friday. There's no interruptions, there's no ads, and those episodes are exclusive to either Apple Podcasts or Patreon.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Right now, I think we have upwards of 75 episodes in the bank, so if you need more content to binge, you can certainly go and binge a lot of it right now going into your weekend, or if your other podcasters aren't updating their shows, or if you just, you know, have run out of things to listen to, there's so much material on there. Last week, we did a case about the worst...
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
serial killer in Thailand she was a best friend who would poison all of her friends and then steal from them I mean it was horrific but we talked about that last week so you can go listen to that right now and then this Friday we are going all in to the Brian Laundrie of it all could he still be alive what's really going on
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I'm going to stop talking and I'm going to just kind of like get right into it because that's what you want me to do anyway, right? But actually, really quick. Sorry, guys. Actually, really quick. I do... I have a question, and I need your feedback. So whether you're listening to the audio version of this or you are watching on YouTube, please comment. Please let me know.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
my personal thoughts on whether he's alive or not, what a lot of the conspiracies are right now that are going out there because of the new documentary that has been released about Gabby Petito. So we're talking about all of that on Friday. So a lot of episodes, about 75 right now or more that you can go binge.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
You can get that access either through Patreon, patreon.com slash Annie Elise or directly on the Apple app. I think right now there's even a discount if you buy a yearly subscription on the Apple app. So check that out. But other than that, I will be back with you, first thing, Monday morning, with a deep dive of a case. And this is a case we've been talking about a lot, guys.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I did the deep dive so you don't have to. After I watched Apple Cider Vinegar, I wanted, and after I watched the new America, or the search for Instagram's worst con artist, once I learned about who Belle Gibson was, I wanted to know everything about her. And We went into it. Way more than what the documentary showed. Way more than what the dramatization showed.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
We are going to talk about all of it. So that is coming up on Monday. And it is a freaking mind-blowing case. So I will be back with you then. Until then, stay safe. Be nice. Don't kill people. Don't be. I know that makes no sense. That's just going to be my new let them theory until I come up with a better one. And don't join any cults. Just be good. Be good. Be good. Be good. Be good.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Maybe that's the new thing. Be good. All right, guys. Thanks so much. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I also set a reminder already in my phone to remind me to put a poll up on Spotify. But I want to know from you, for the sake of organization or clarity, Do you want me to start titling these episodes as headline highlights February week three or whatever we're in? Or do you prefer that I continue doing what I'm doing?
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Because right now the way I'm titling them is I'm putting, you know, a couple words regarding each case or episode. three cases at least in the title. So I would hope that that with then the body of the description saying that it's a headline highlights episode, you guys would be clear on what it is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But I don't know if that's making it more confusing if you don't want to see a title that has a bunch of case names jumbled up in it. And if you'd rather just be like, oh, headline highlights week three, like got it, check. So let me know what you want. Because like I always say, I could like to consider myself a podcaster of the people. I mean that obviously joking. and sarcastic.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But in a real sense of whatever you guys want me to talk about, and how you want me to package things and organize things and deliver things, I want to make sure I'm doing that because I want to make you happy. So let me know what you prefer for titling or if you're like, Annie, I honestly don't even give a shit. I don't know why you're even asking us this.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I had a really special guest in the studio earlier this week and we were recording an episode for a deep dive that's coming up and I think we're going to release it on March 10th, don't quote me on that, but it's a very long episode and it's She is just incredible. She firsthand shares her story of something horrific that happened to her and her family, and she survived it.
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246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It doesn't even matter title it whatever the F you want, like, whatever your vibe is, let me know. Okay, we're friends, we can all just air it out and be honest. Now let's start with this first case. Because as I mentioned, There has been an arrest made in a cold case from 2017, which I know wasn't really that long ago, six years, but it has been a cold case ever since.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And it's a case of a missing mom and her baby. Now, what I'm really excited about is this case is going to start us off on a much brighter and happier note than usual. But on February 17th, a press conference was held regarding a huge announcement from this case that's out of Virginia.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
The case involves a woman named Keir Johnson, who was just 34 years old at the time in 2017, and her then eight-month-old daughter, Chloe. So Keir and Chloe were heading up to go meet with a friend at Buckrow Beach in Virginia. This was on April 30th, 2017.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
However, Keir and her daughter never showed up, which was, of course, immediately a huge red flag, and her whole family and all of her friends were really worrying about what had possibly happened, because these were plans that were made well ahead of time, and Keir was also apparently never somebody who would just, you know, blow off plans.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So then, after wondering why she didn't show up, her family became even more worried when nobody could get in contact with her. Nobody had seen her. Nobody had seen the baby. Nobody could get a hold of her. They were starting to panic. So a week after she was first reported missing, her car was then found abandoned, which we know is never a good sign.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Yet still, nobody had heard or seen from Kier or her daughter. So an Amber Alert was issued after her car was found. However, even that Amber Alert, it didn't really bring any helpful leads in. So eventually, the case just kind of came to a staggering halt. It was like they both had literally just vanished into thin air.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So then fast forward now to, you know, eight years later, and this press conference was being held. So on Valentine's Day, they announced that 46-year-old Carlos Johnson was arrested after he had been pulled over at a traffic stop. And once he was arrested, he was charged with two counts of first-degree murder. Now, this man, Carlos, was Kier's ex-boyfriend and also baby Chloe's biological father.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Apparently, their relationship was just very toxic. On again, off again, off again, on again. And nobody was really surprised, apparently, when he was finally arrested.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, there's still not a whole lot that is known about this case or even the circumstances of Carlos' arrest. However, it has been reported that just a few months before Keir and Khloe went missing, Carlos had been Googling things. and not normal Googles that you and I may have on our phone, but we always say the Google history, it will get you every single time, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And the Google searches that he was making were things like accidental baby death, how much rat poison is needed to kill a human. Pretty specific, pretty coincidental when then a baby vanishes and then another human vanishes. Doesn't seem like just like your standard everyday Google search. And it also is kind of like a tale as old as time, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I will never understand why these people think that Google search history is private or can be deleted or wiped because newsflash or what's that one mean? Newsflash, Dakota Fanning in Uptown Girls. Like your history is always going to be there. It will always be there. So wake up, idiots. Now, to this day, Keir and her baby have still not been found.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
I don't want to tell too much about it. I feel like she should be the one to share her story. You may have seen part of it on her TikTok because it went viral. I think it's over 10 million views or something like that. But we brought her into the studio, flew her out from Canada, and spent a lot of time together this week. And
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
However, they are both sadly assumed to be deceased at this point, which is incredibly sad, a mother with her eight-month-old child. And I will never honestly understand why people do these things, because if you don't want to be in a relationship, just don't be.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
You know how right now that whole let them theory is going viral of like, oh, if they want to like leave you or if they want to do this to you, if your friends want to treat you like crap, just let them. It's the Mel Robbins theory. Here's my theory. If you don't want to be married, don't be. If you don't want to not cheat and be a scumbag, don't be.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
If you don't want to have to murder somebody to get out of a relationship, don't be. Like...
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
it's just crazy to me that people will go to such extremes because you're just too much of a coward to leave the relationship or to do things the right way right and if you don't want the kid if it's not even about the relationship and you don't want the child then don't be involved I mean do your part with child support and I would never say like be a deadbeat parent because I think that's awful but like it's better than being a murdering parent right like just don't be involved be the deadbeat take the heat for that too from all the judgment you get but like
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
it's better than the alternative it's better than murdering your child right so i don't know it just i will never understand it blows my mind it really feels to me like such a simple thing to do but right now carlos's preliminary hearing is scheduled for the end of june so i will definitely be keeping an eye out for any updates that come with this case but i am just glad that kieran chloe can finally and hopefully get the justice that they deserve after a whole eight years of it being a cold case
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And I'm hopeful that this guy, Carlos, now that he's been arrested, maybe he will actually provide some answers as to where their remains are so that their families can grieve properly, so that they can lay them to rest and there can be not closure, but peace within it, if that makes sense.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So now let's move into this Amazon guy because this story, it's unbelievable in the sense that how people think they're gonna get away with things. It just never ceases to amaze me. Even high-speed chases or carjackings or hit and runs, sometimes there's wiggle room to think, okay, maybe they're optimistically like thinking that they're gonna have a chance at getting away with this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But this guy is like such a moron. And let me just talk to you about what went down. So as I said, it was a hit and run. But what's so unique about this situation, too, is that it was an Amazon delivery van and it was someone driving who was still on the clock.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So on Tuesday, February 18th, a 29-year-old woman who has still been unnamed was walking across the street in a pedestrian crosswalk in a neighborhood in Baltimore. Now, this neighborhood, it was also full of shops, full of businesses. So there were literally cameras everywhere. And what happened next? It was caught all on camera.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It was really emotional, really powerful, and just she is such a remarkable woman. And I just can't even begin to wrap my mind around what this girl went through. And I say girl because she was so young at the time when it happened.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
So as the woman was crossing the street, an Amazon delivery van was not seen just hitting her, but also completely running over her with its front wheel. The van then slowed down, clearly realizing that they had hit something, or in this case, someone. And then the woman was run over by the back wheels of the van. making her quite literally run over not once, but twice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And I know I went through that kind of fast, but just thinking, if you're picturing the van driving right now and like going over almost like a speed bump, okay, where the front wheels go over. It wasn't a speed bump though, it was a person. And they start slowing down like, oh, what I just run over.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But instead of stopping, they continue driving at like a somewhat slow of a pace to where the back wheels then go over that same speed bump slash person again. And even if this person thought, okay, I ran over a speed bump or I ran over a lid or a piece of garbage, that's not what happened. The driver knew exactly what happened.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
They knew it wasn't just garbage or a lid or something like that, which how do I know that you're asking? Because the driver is seen on this camera footage getting out of the vehicle, standing right next to this poor woman who he just ran over, who was barely moving herself, and then he gets back into the van and he flees the scene. Thankfully, it wasn't too late at night.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It was only around 9.30pm, so there were plenty of witnesses and other people around who immediately called for help. The victim was rushed to a local hospital where she was treated for her injuries, and thankfully, none of them were life-threatening, which is so crazy to imagine. I don't even know how you survive being ran over twice. twice by a van.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But even more crazy is that the authorities know exactly who this driver is. He's a man, as I mentioned, though we don't know his name, it has yet to be released, but he also has yet to be arrested. So a spokesperson for Amazon did release a statement regarding this entire incident, in which they said, "...we were made aware of this terrible incident.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
The driver in question has been suspended from delivering on our behalf and we're working with his employer and with law enforcement as they investigate." Now, at first, that quote confused me a little bit because I'm like, wait, you're Amazon. He was driving an Amazon delivery van. What do you mean you have to check with his employer or you're cooperating?
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And unfortunately, it wasn't even like, I don't know, not this expression, not like a one-hit wonder, but like it wasn't a one-time occurrence because tragedy just kept happening throughout her life. And now she is around about 40 years old. And It's just a very, very powerful case and story. And so I'm looking forward to sharing that with you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And what do you mean that he's been suspended from delivering on your behalf? But it made a lot of sense once I actually like turned my brain on because I don't know if you know this, but...
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Amazon and a lot of delivery companies, they do have their own drivers who are employed underneath Amazon, but they also hire third-party companies to do their deliveries for them because, as you know, Amazon is such a massive company with prime delivery. It's like, how could you possibly sustain that in-house? So what I gather from this is that, okay, it was one of these third-party drivers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
They had the van. He's been suspended from delivering on Amazon's behalf, but maybe he still is working for this third-party delivery vendor and delivering on other people's behalf. But then it says we're working with his employer and with law enforcement. So, you know, that's what I gather from it. But then again, I'm not a genius. Or maybe I am. I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Now, I would imagine that hopefully by the time this episode comes out, there will have hopefully been some kind of arrest made, especially since they know who was responsible. But I'm just super glad to hear that this woman is okay. And who knows, maybe Amazon will throw her a nice little payout or a nice little settlement as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
Not that that makes up for it, but they certainly have plenty of money to do so. Now let's talk about this Valentine's Day date gone wrong because we talked about something. When was it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
It was a couple weeks ago, I think, about the woman who like met a stranger on the bus and plotted to kill her partner because she was going for a job interview and the partner was basically like, uh, you're not qualified. You're not going to get the job. I don't believe in you. And she's like, oh, I need to plot and kill you because you don't believe in me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
And that's kind of like loosely how this case feels as well. Now, for some people, I feel like Valentine's Day can be full of romance, heartwarming gestures, lovey-dovey, all of those things. For others, it's just another day.
Serialously with Annie Elise
246: Tinder Serial Killer, Valentine’s Day Murder, Fire Captain Stabbing, Cannibal Released, & Deadly Black Widow
But this specific case is pretty insane because it did start off as a seemingly normal, just average couple trying to participate in the whole day of love, day of love, like lovey-dovey hearts and candy and all the things. But then, 34-year-old Taylor Meyer was arrested, and he was charged with brutally murdering his 36-year-old wife, Deborah Meyer. He murdered her on Valentine's Day night.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Toward the end of the interview, the officer made it clear that it was pretty obvious that something seemed fishy about the whole thing due to the location that it happened in, the circumstances, all of those things. Again, this wasn't your typical park where people flocked to. And not to mention, it was late at night in the middle of February. Something wasn't right.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So police decided to hone more in on Juan as one of their main suspects. I mean, it would kind of make sense if they had been together and in touch for a period of, I don't know, five years. There had to have been some very deep feelings going on here. And maybe Juan was ready to be the main man in Stacy's life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And she did tell police that she told Juan about her Valentine's Day plans with Richard at the park. So it seems plausible. Now, Juan worked as a surgical assistant in Stacy's clinic, and he was hired by her, even though he actually didn't have any experience required for the job.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Before he was hired, he had a hotel security job, which is honestly kind of scary considering he was given a medical job with zero medical skills or prior training. But in her interview, she said that she hired him because she felt bad for him. He was a struggling divorced father to multiple kids who needed a good paying job. Not to mention, Stacey had a lot of power with her job.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Though nobody would have ever guessed it, unless they knew the Schechs, that all three boys weren't biologically Richards. But again, you would never know that because of how attentive and close he was with these boys. Now, while it was the first time being married for Richard, it was actually the fifth time being married for Stacy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
She had a big say on who worked there, who got hired, and who didn't. So as more came out during the interview about Juan and the relationship that he and Stacey had, it wasn't just your typical affair. Stacey seemed to be bankrolling Juan's life completely. I mean, first off, she provided shelter for him and his family because he and his family lived in a house that she and Richard owned.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
But it was also more than that. She paid for his phone bills, his truck. She would take him on work trips, but really it was just a trip for them to go to Vegas. And that most recent one happened only a few weeks before Richard was murdered.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And not only all of that, but Stacey also rented an apartment for the sole purpose of having a place for them to hook up, like a secret love shack, a love pad. Now, I don't know how she was hiding all of this from Richard either, because that relationship came with a really hefty monthly price tag, and I feel like that would have been very difficult to keep secret.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
that is very expensive you have his truck he's living in one of your properties so you're not getting the income from that you have a love shack apartment you're using work trips how does that go unnoticed unless richard really was just truly so hands-off with all of the finances so after the police wrapped things up with stacy juan was now the prime suspect
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So at 4am on February 15th, police went to Juan's house, but after knocking for a little bit, nobody was answering the door. So they went around the perimeter of the house, they were knocking, continuing, but again, nobody was coming out. So now they decided they would just try to get in touch with him in the morning at work, where they did, in fact, find him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
But he looked a little different than usual. In the weeks leading up to Richard's murder, Juan had a beard, but then when the police questioned him, he had shaved the beard into a goatee. But either way, he was okay with talking to the police, and he even waived having a lawyer present. He claimed that he had nothing to do with the murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
He also took a polygraph, and the results came back, but they did show as inconclusive. He was questioned for four hours by multiple different detectives, and Juan didn't hide or lie about the relationship that he had with Stacey.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
He even talked about all of the things that she bought for him and claimed that Stacey had told him that her marriage was kind of an open marriage and that her and Richard were allowed to do their own thing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Juan also kind of made it clear that he wasn't really even in love with Stacy, but pretty much just used her for the money, and he fully intended on cutting her loose when he was able to financially. So he wasn't in this for the long haul, and it didn't seem like this was motivated financially.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So then the investigator asked him when she mentioned that she was going to be meeting her husband Richard at that park for Valentine's Day, to which Juan replied Friday after work. But the problem was, this went against what Stacy had said during her interrogation. So then the detective said, To which Juan said,
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Stacy was born in 1971, and she was raised in Florida until she was three years old, and that's when her family moved to Atlanta, Georgia. When she was pretty young, her dad died, and the loss of that was pretty devastating for her, and it was something that she carried with her into her adult years. Now, like I said, Richard wasn't her first go-around at marriage, not by any means.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So he gave his alibi to the police, saying that on the day of the murder, he was out and about with his girlfriend and his son, Anthony. Now, to make things clear, when he mentioned girlfriend, he meant his unnamed ex-wife, who he was attempting to get back together with, albeit while he was still seeing Stacey on the side.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
He went on to say that he was a very light sleeper who always was tossing and turning, and that he ran on about three to four hours of sleep, which really then drew some red flags for the police, being that they were knocking at his door and his windows at 4 a.m., and he didn't answer, which if he claimed to be in bed by 10.30 that evening and only got a usual three, four hours max of sleep and was also a light sleeper, there was really no reason that he wouldn't have been able to hear the knocking at his door and answer the door.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Which to all this, Juan just kind of said, well, hey, you know, I don't know what to tell you because I was in bed all night. Even though the police ran his doorbell 10 plus times, he was saying he was in bed and didn't hear it. Now, things weren't looking very great for Juan because at this point, he hadn't passed the polygraph test.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
The results were partially inconclusive when it came to questions regarding Richard's murder, such as were you present when Richard was shot and did you shoot Richard? But not only that, but he had changed his overall appearance by shaving his beard off. He also didn't answer the door in the middle of the night, even though, to his own admission, he was a light sleeper.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
But he did claim that he was with his ex-wife and some of his kids the night of the murder, that they were doing family stuff. So the best way to figure out whether or not Juan was involved was to corroborate his story with his ex. So she was brought in for questioning, and she talked about how she wasn't Stacy's biggest fan, and how she felt like she and Juan were too close.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
She also said that while she didn't care for Stacy much, she would come around a lot and spend a lot of time with their kids. So that's when the detective revealed to her that Juan had been having an affair with Stacy for quite some time. And although she wasn't happy to hear that, not at all, she also didn't seem very surprised by it either.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Now apparently Juan's ex-wife would stay at home with the kids, so I almost wonder if she knew deep down all along that that's what was going on, but didn't say anything because she knew that Stacy was providing quite a bit financially for her and her family. and maybe that's why she bit her tongue a little bit on Stacey coming around so much and being so heavily involved in her kids' lives.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
I think it also makes sense that that's why they had the little love shack apartment, because they couldn't clearly go to Juan's house that his ex-wife was living in with the children, right? But the key thing that came out of her interview with detectives was whether or not she was able to corroborate where Juan was, when he said he was, what he was doing, who he was with.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So even though Juan had a lot of things stacked against him that really didn't shine the best light on him, At this point, she cooperated the story, so he was free to go. His alibi checked out, and that left detectives really scratching their heads as to who could have possibly killed Richard. It's not like he had any enemies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
With Juan now cleared, police were back at the drawing board as to who the suspect was. All they really had to go off of was the third set of tire marks that were found at the crime scene. But without knowing what type of car had the type of tires that were found, it was almost like finding a needle in a haystack.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So the detectives did a massive deep dive to figure out the make and the model of the car that had been at the scene. Lieutenant Dan Franklin and other officers scoured the internet. They visited local places that sold tires, and they spoke with car dealerships.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And then finally, while visiting a tire store, Lieutenant Franklin and his partner spotted a tire in that store that they knew they were looking for. They knew it had the marks, and it was a Goodyear Integrity tire. But the thing was, figuring out the tire was only a small piece to this puzzle. It's not like Goodyear is some obscure brand of tires, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
She actually got married to her first husband, who was her high school sweetheart, when she was just 17 years old. The two of them eloped, and they didn't have any children together, and their marriage was pretty short-lived because Stacey filed for a divorce just a couple of years later. But in 1991, she got married again.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
It's one of the biggest tire brands in the world. I mean, its net sales in 2021 were $17.5 billion alone. So even though it was great that the detectives were able to find the brand of tires that were there that day, it didn't really help them much in finding out who was driving the car. So Stacey and all of Richard's friends and family all gathered for his memorial service on February 20th.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And Stacey requested that everybody wear their personal favorite color because Richard just had an extreme love for color and all things art, if you remember. All of the pallbearers were Cub Scouts that Richard had mentored, and after the memorial, everybody gathered for a helium balloon launch afterwards, where they wrote their favorite memories and messages to Richard.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
It was truly the perfect ceremony that embodied how special Richard was to so many people and the impact he really had on people's lives. Meanwhile, the police were receiving tips about Richard's murder, but nothing that led to much.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
That was until an IT worker who worked at Stacey's office called something into the police department, unsure of whether or not it was even worth calling in for, but they figured that they were just going to report it anyway. The unnamed IT worker was in charge of cleaning out all of the company's email on a semi-regular basis.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Anything that didn't need to still be in the server, just clear things out. And they noticed that the weekend of Richard's murder, Stacey had cleared all of her accounts from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday emails.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
now obviously that made police very suspicious of stacy and luckily when it comes to most things computer related things are never really deleted and that was also the case for her emails because they had been backed up so the police issued a warrant for her email account and they obtained access to over 4 000 of her emails which went back much further than the friday before richard died
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Now, the majority of them were junk mail or they weren't relevant to the case, but she did have two deleted messages that she had sent to her bank asking for money to be moved from a real estate account that her work had. And get this, the first message to her bank was asking for a very specific amount. Eighty nine hundred and two dollars.
Serialously with Annie Elise
226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And this was just a few weeks before Valentine's Day, which I mean, talk about specific. Why not just eighty nine hundred dollars or nine thousand dollars? The extra two dollars really were throwing me off. But what's really interesting is in the second message, Stacey sent this two days before Richard died and it was asking for eleven hundred dollars. So what in the world did Stacey want?
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And her and her new husband moved back down to Stacy's home state of Florida. And that's where she had her first son, DJ. But having a baby didn't help their already stressful marriage, because they had a lot of stress mainly for finances. And the two of them ended up splitting up when DJ was just one year old. Stacy knew that she wanted a better life for DJ.
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Ten thousand dollars for or ten thousand and two dollars, I should say. Well, it turns out that she wanted that money sent over to somebody named Lenitra Ross. Lenitra and Stacy knew each other well due to the fact that not only did Lenitra work at Stacy's job, but she also rented a house from Stacy.
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So police went directly to this rental home, and they wanted to get to the bottom of all of this, to the bottom of why Lenitra received $10,000 from her work's real estate account through Stacey. And when they arrived, Lenitra seemed pretty undisturbed that officers were showing up to her door asking her about the money transfer.
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She also had a pretty good reason for why Stacey would have transferred that much money to her. She said that it was for home repairs, including a water leak. And she was able to provide receipts for the different types of housework that she had done using that money that was given to her. So she had the receipts to prove it.
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So at the end of the day, this investigation again just hit another dead end. Each time the investigators thought that they were onto something, it wouldn't pan out. All the while, Stacey was going on, living life, not crying, or seeming even a bit upset.
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She was posting on Facebook about what she had been up to lately, and honestly, going through her posts a couple months after everything, you would never guess that her husband had died so recently, no less been murdered in cold blood. I mean, I get that life has to move on, but some of her statuses seemed a little bit strange.
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She seemed more interested in birthday parties, basketball games, and roller derbies over figuring out her husband's murderer, which still hadn't been solved. But something interesting that did come out was that Stacey stood to gain nearly $600,000 from Richard's life insurance policy. And this really made detectives wonder if that could have played into his suspicious death.
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The life insurance will always lead you down one road, guys, every single time without fail. But is that the right road to go down? So just when this case now seemed to be impossible to solve, the police received another pretty credible tip. And this was from somebody in the family, Stacey's cousin, Connie Hearn.
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Connie was a bit younger than Stacey, but the two of them were really close, practically like sisters, and she had been sitting on something pretty big for a while, and she was unsure whether or not to tell the police due to the fact that she was so close with Stacey. Stacey had been put in charge of selling her grandparents Chevrolet Impala, and this was not too long before Richard was murdered.
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Her grandparents needed the money for their around-the-clock care, because remember, they weren't exactly in the best condition. condition. They were aging and they were sick and they needed constant care. And being that Stacey was the planner and the one who usually took charge of the family, she was assigned the task of selling the car for them.
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But when she took over the car, it was apparently gone for a couple of weeks. Then it was back. Then shortly after it was gone again. But her grandparents never received any money. And as time went on, people in the family, Connie especially, were really wanting to know where that money was.
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Because Stacey said that she sold the car for about $14,000, and that's not exactly chump change, so where or what did she spend that money on? So the investigators ran the VIN number on the car, and they ended up finding it at none other than Lenitra's house. And not only that, but it had the exact tires that the investigators knew were at the scene of the crime.
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So she decided that she was going to get an undergraduate degree at Jacksonville University in Florida. That's where she studied nursing and psychology, and she graduated in 1994. Right after she graduated, she used her degree to get a nursing job, where she did pretty well for herself and for a DJ.
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But even so, there wasn't enough evidence to prove that Lenitra was the one who murdered Richard. So Lieutenant Franklin figured out a plan B, one that was going to take a little bit of time. All along, investigators knew that whoever did kill Richard had been waiting for him to arrive at the park, though it wasn't clear how long they were waiting.
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Well, what does anyone do while they are waiting? They usually will pull out their phone, they will start going on apps, they will start scrolling social media, maybe send some text messages, make a call, whatever they can do to pass the time. So Lieutenant Franklin decided to subpoena any and all phone records from the night of Richard's murder, February 14, 2010.
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And he did this through a tower dump. Now, essentially, a tower dump is whenever police or any law enforcement agency collects a ton of cell phone data from specific areas over a certain amount of time. They do this through the cell phone companies that operate in the targeted area through the cell tower.
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And the cell tower in the area near the park serviced four of the big cell phone companies, meaning there were literally endless amounts of records collected. It would have taken investigators months to go through it all. But Lieutenant Franklin had a brilliant idea to shorten the list and shorten it quite a bit.
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So at that point, he felt pretty strongly that Stacey was involved in her husband's murder in one way or another. So he figured that it wasn't a long shot that whoever shot Richard very well might be a contact in Stacey's phone. And what could have been a month or even longer search ended up only being one hour because Lieutenant Franklin found a match.
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One number had made a call from Belton Bridge Park at 8.40 p.m. the night that Stacey found Richard dead at the park. And the contact in her phone who matched the number was listed under Reggie. But he was also known as Mr. Results. But the number that Reggie called from the park wasn't Stacey. So, any guesses on who it could be? Lenitra.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. And today's a little bit different. We've got headline highlights every Thursday, you know that. We do our case deep dives every Monday.
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So at this point, the investigators needed to figure out who Reggie was, why he was calling Lenitra right before Richard's murder, and how he was connected to Stacey in the first place. Well, it turns out that 36-year-old Reggie Coleman knew Stacey because he had held boxing boot camp sessions at her workplace during the employees' lunch breaks.
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And he used to be a semi-pro boxer and was now a personal trainer, hence the name Mr. Results. And Reggie also had an on-and-off-again romantic relationship with Lanitra, and he also had a child with her. He was from the Philadelphia area, but had moved to Georgia after serving time in prison because he had a criminal record.
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But when he moved to Georgia, it was his way of starting fresh, so that's when he started his personal training business, And he also worked with young people who were on the same bad path as he was at that age, really trying to help them turn their lives around. So the phone records went on to reveal that Reggie made another call to Lenitra at 9.40 p.m. And at that point, Richard was dead.
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But she didn't want to be single and alone forever, so she actively dated, and she eventually found herself a third husband in 1997. And either Stacey was just unlucky when it came to love or something else, I don't know, but just after a month and a half, the two of them ended that marriage.
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So it was safe to assume that he was probably calling her to let her know that he was heading back. And just a few minutes after that call, LaNitra texted Stacy. She sent her a text saying, So investigators had a hunch that the text was actually a secret coded message to Stacy to let her know that the job was done and Richard was dead.
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So at that point, the investigators knew that they were dealing with some type of murder-for-hire plot, right? And that all three of the people were somehow involved in this situation. But it was a bit tricky to try and arrange speaking with each individual separately, without one of the others then finding out and then fleeing and running.
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So the investigators attempted to concoct a plan, all in order to prevent that. And they called that plan Operation Tangled Web. So in the meantime, while Operation Tangled Web was deep underway, on May 23rd, Richard's ashes were scattered by parachute alongside his father, Ed, who had died before him.
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The ceremony took place at Briscoe Field in Lawrenceville, Georgia, and Stacey was the one who spread Richard's ashes. Afterwards, she took to Facebook, saying, So police figured out a way to get a hold of each person all at once, and on May 25th, the plan went down. First, officers arrested Reggie at 7.30 a.m. at his house.
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Then they stopped Lenitra at a traffic stop around 9.15 a.m., and they arrested her. And then they got a hold of Stacey while at work. Well, kind of. So get this. When police arrived at her job, one of her coworkers said, Oh, hey, police are here. And Stacey panicked. She ran and locked herself in a room that was only accessible by approved personnel through a keycard. Which, how dumb can you be?
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I mean, did she really think that she could hide out forever in this small room? So not too long after that, she surrendered herself, and she was arrested at 1.15 p.m. Lenitra and Reggie just played completely dumb during their interrogation. Lenitra said that she had no idea why she was there, and Reggie just acted like he had no idea who the victim was or what was going on.
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But Stacey didn't sit on the bench waiting too long, and definitely not when it came to getting back out there and putting herself out there. So she dated shortly after this divorce and even had a pregnancy come from one of her casual flings. This led to the birth of her second son, Keith.
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Stacey, on the other hand, she didn't play dumb. She took a very different route, and she made a very strong accusation against Richard, claiming that her middle child came to her saying, "'You don't know what he does to me when you're not around.'"
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Now, not only would that be horrible and downright unimaginable for any parent to ever hear, but Stacey also told the police that she had been physically harmed in a sexual manner as well as a child. So hearing that and hearing that it was happening to her child too was just too much for her to bear. So she said that she talked to Lenitra about the situation since they were such good friends.
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And while most people in that situation would try to be there for their friend during such a dark time, maybe even suggest calling the police, Lenitra suggested something much more sinister. She said that Reggie could take care of Richard. All for a price. And she claimed that killing people was something that Reggie did to make a little bit of extra money on the side.
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Like it was a casual side hustle or something like, oh yeah, he does this a little bit to just kind of make some cash on the side. What?
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so the three of them all met up at a mexican restaurant for lunch one day to figure out the twisted details reggie said that he would do the whole thing for a flat rate of ten thousand dollars which stacy agreed to but she also told him that she would give him her grandparents impala car and of course lenitra wasn't left out of this deal at all because in exchange for her cooperation and the finder's fee she now received the house that was stacy's without any monthly payments it was now completely hers
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So when everything was all in agreement, all three of them headed to Belton Bridge Park to make sure that the area would work, and that's where they mapped out their game plan. Stacey told Reggie that she wanted the murder to look like a robbery gone bad.
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And as we know, with what really went down, that wasn't the case at all, meaning that Reggie went rogue, just shooting Richard multiple times, then leaving all the valuables behind, which apparently really frustrated Stacey. And then Stacey revealed a devastating bombshell.
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Her son, who went to her saying that Richard had been harming him, told her afterwards that what he meant about the harming wasn't actually physical harm at all, but instead he was frustrated that Richard was more of a strict parent than she was and that he didn't let things slide as easily.
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But then Stacey talked about how she was afraid if her and Richard ever split up that he would get custody of her kids since he was legally one of her two youngest kids' fathers. It's like she couldn't really keep her story or her motive straight at this point and was kind of just spiraling, in my opinion.
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But legally, the police had all they needed to proceed forward, even with Reggie and Lenitra playing dumb. Between all of the hard evidence and Stacey admitting to everything, capital punishment was very possible for her future.
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And the dad seemed to stay out of the picture for the most part because they never really went on to get married or even date for very long. They didn't really stay together. Again, that's why I say it was casual. So even though Stacy's nursing job was pretty good, now that she had two mouths to feed, she knew that she needed something more.
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So she decided to work out a plea deal that if she testified against Lenitra and Reggie during their trials and told the whole story from her point of view, she would avoid lethal injections. And the courts agreed to it. So on May 17, 2012, two years after the arrests were made, Lenitra's trial took place. Unfortunately, the trial wasn't televised, so all I could find were reports from the trial.
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Stacey did go up on the stand to testify about LaNitra's involvement in Richard's death, and the deal that she, LaNitra, and Reggie had all agreed to. Even though up until that point, even two years later, LaNitra was still holding her ground, claiming that she was innocent.
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But Stacey was telling a totally different story, saying that she herself orchestrated the deal between LaNitra and Reggie, testifying, "...I didn't. The jig is up." Then Stacey went into her why, her reasons for hiring Reggie through LaNitra as a hitman.
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She said that Richard and her sons hit it off so well as soon as she brought him around, but then at some point her middle son and Richard started clashing 24-7. And then she testified that same story that she had told the detectives during her interrogation about Richard harming her son, which I don't get since she had already said that her son had exaggerated that story.
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But either way, she went on to discuss how an unnamed family member of hers had harmed her as a child, and that that was the reason that she had so many failed marriages. Basically, that the abuse stuck with her, making it hard for her to ever feel safe and ever feel at ease in a romantic relationship.
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After going through all of the evidence and the testimony, a week later, the jury found Lanitra guilty of first-degree murder, and she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Now, at this point, Reggie had heard about his baby mama sentencing and life in prison,
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And he figured that especially with Stacey as the main witness, there was no way that he was going to be considered not guilty. And he knew that the death sentence was on the table for him and that that was strongly being considered too.
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So a few months later on November 12th, he pleaded guilty to the murder and he was given the sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole so that he would not receive a capital punishment. Stacey had taken her plea deal in agreeing to testify against Reggie and Lenitra a long time ago so that she could avoid the death sentence, but her sentencing was still yet to be determined.
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So investigators decided to look more into why she claimed she killed Richard, being that she literally testified in court about it. Because if that was the case, if Richard really did harm her child, that could have potentially helped her case as far as whether or not she got the possibility of parole.
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So the police decided to go directly to the source, Stacy's son, who she claimed had come to her saying, you don't know what he does to me when you're not around. And when the child spoke to the police, he said that that never happened and that he never said anything like that.
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And she knew that she needed more money since she was the primary caretaker of her children. And luckily for her, she was able to find a great six-figure job where she worked as an office administrator at the Georgia Spine and Neurology Center in DeKalb County. This was on campus of the DeKalb Medical Center, which was a really, really large practice as well.
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Investigators couldn't even find evidence that the conversation between Stacey and her son ever even happened in the first place. Not one saying that he had said Richard was harming him, or even the one of him saying that he was exaggerating. So on December 3rd, Stacey officially pled guilty for what she had done.
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And I mean at this point, she had literally already testified saying, I did it, the jig is up, so there wasn't really anywhere else for her to take this. So now it came down to her sentencing, and the prosecution team believed that Stacey was lying entirely about those abuse claims against Richard, and instead used that as a cover-up for the real reason that she wanted him dead.
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They believed that she just didn't want to have to pay for a divorce, that she didn't want to deal with custody issues, or even have to pay some type of spousal support to him since she made the money in the family. And the judge agreed with the prosecution, so they sentenced her to life in prison without parole.
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Today, Stacey is serving her life sentence without the possibility of parole in Hawkins, Georgia, at Polanski State Prison. And apparently, she still feels very bad about what she did and is working, trying hard to fix her wrongs, like that's even possible. However, she still is sticking to her story about believing that Richard had harmed her child.
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Her family claims that she has now found God, she has earned an associate's degree in biblical studies, and is working toward becoming an ordained minister. She is also working on a children's book for kids who have parents in prison, because apparently she likes to write poems and short stories during her time pondering what she did.
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So, on top of creative writing, Stacey also likes to teach her fellow inmates about their health, regarding risks that they are at. How to protect their health in prison, about their right to proper health care behind bars, all of those things. So safe to say, Stacey seems to be doing just perfectly fine in prison, and hasn't seemed to even make any sort of enemies.
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In fact, it almost seems like she's kind of taken on a leadership role, similar to how she was before she was sentenced to life in prison. Reggie and Lanitra are also serving their life sentences in prison without the possibility of parole. However, there isn't any information or updates with how they are handling prison life.
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Lanitra did try to appeal her sentencing in 2014 due to her and her attorneys thinking that her cell phone records should not have been used for evidence, but her appeal was denied in 2015. Stacy's sons are all adults now, and they all have lives of their own, away from the spotlight.
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It isn't clear if they are still in their mother's life at all, or if they're not, but Richard's family and friends have all had to go on living life without him. Richard filled a space in so many people's lives, from being an amazing dad, a friend, a scout leader, and just a community asset. And Richard's life just being stolen from him was felt by many.
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Stacy's family has voiced their opinion over the years, that although they love her, they are okay with the sentencing, and that they believe that she is where she needs to be, especially because of the fact that Richard was such an amazing person. I mean, this case is just beyond shocking, and honestly, even after going through it all, it still kind of is a little bit of a head-scratcher.
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Richard was truly a good man. He had never harmed so much as a fly. And yet Stacey hired a hitman to murder him because she didn't want to deal with custody issues? I just don't get it. And now, of course, cliche as it is, she has apparently found God. And maybe she did, but this is just a theory. But I kind of think that Stacey just wanted a way to rise up in prison.
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So she had more of an established career. It was something with a little bit more. I don't want to say credibility. What is it? But like a little bit something more. It was like a really large practice, a large campus. It was great. So not only did she help make sure that the office ran smoothly, but she also helped out with surgeries due to her nursing background. And people loved Stacey.
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And what better way than to take on a religious role and get people to confide in you? She was always known to be somebody who liked to be in control, she liked having power, and that kind of thing doesn't really just go away once somebody goes to prison. Not only that, but she also took on a teacher slash mentor type of role, using her medical knowledge to teach female inmates about their health.
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I don't know, it's just a theory, but either way, at the end of the day, Stacey is a cold-hearted, calculated solicitor of murder, period. Not only did she hire a hitman on her innocent husband, but she then went and defamed his name when he wasn't even around to stick up for himself.
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And being that it came out as being a straight-up lie, it's not only so disrespectful to Richard's family and friends, but it just goes to show, even though she didn't physically pull the trigger, she just is a monster. Which is such a shame in so many ways, not only for Richard, but also the fact that Stacey could have used her smarts and hard work ethic for good.
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But instead, she did the unthinkable. I'm curious to know what you guys think about this case too. Are you happy with the sentencing for Stacey, Reggie, and Lenitra? I'm curious if Richard had any idea that Stacey had been cheating on him too. I read some rumors that he did know but wanted to work things out, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.
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I also have a bit of a, I don't know, morbid curiosity to whether or not Stacey will be one of those women who marries in prison. I mean, hey, maybe it'll be, I don't know, lucky number six for her. You never know, especially with someone like her who seems to not be okay with being alone for any long stretch of time.
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Thank you guys so much for tuning in to today's mini bonus episode in lieu of headline highlights. As a reminder, that's also kind of a little sneak preview to all of the bonus episodes that we do every single Friday. As a reminder, if you ever need more content to binge, I put out a bonus episode every single Friday where it's ad-free. And it's a mini deep dive into a case.
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Some of them are current event cases. Some of them are older cases. It really just depends. But you can get access to those if you want, either through Patreon, which is patreon.com slash Annie Elise. Or if you listen on Apple, you can do it directly on the Apple podcast app. So if you sign up right now too, you unlock, I believe it's almost like 70 bonus episodes.
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And then like I said, a new one every single Friday, all ad free. So that's just kind of today's episode is a little sneak preview of what those episodes are like. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. And I will be back on the mic with you first thing Monday morning with an all new deep dive case. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Enjoy your week, your time with your family.
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And I'll talk with you guys very soon. Bye.
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They absolutely just fell in love with her. She did her job really well. She was a go-getter, and she had this amazing personality. In fact, her nickname was Mama Spreadsheet because she liked to be in control of everything, keep track of everything, and just be super thorough and organized. So at this point, she really seemed to have it all.
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I mean, although things started out a little bit rough for her going through three failed marriages at such a young age, she actually was able to pull it together and build her dream life for herself and her boys. She had two healthy and happy little boys. She now had a very well-respected and high-paying career.
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And not only that, but she was also a bit of an entrepreneur because she was a landlord for multiple properties that she owned. But like we hear so many times, even with all of that personal success, at this point in her life, Stacey still felt like her life wasn't really complete. That was until 2001, and that is when she got married to her fourth husband.
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Now the two of them seemed to have a great marriage and even had another child together, Stacey's son Kevin. The family of five was envied by so many people, and they were basically living this suburban dream. It was a happy couple, three amazing kids, a beautiful home with a pool. I mean, there's not much more than anybody could ask for.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
But Stacey then started to feel a bit uneasy about things in her marriage. She filed for divorce in 2004, leaving her yet again a single mother. She kept the house, and she navigated life alone with now three children. But that is where Richard then came into the picture.
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But today, we're going to do a little bonus-esque type episode because it's the day after Christmas. I don't know if you're with your family, if you're having some alone time, if you're running around with chaotic children, whatever it is you're doing. But today, we're going to do a little bonus-esque type episode. But I wanted to jump on and give you a little bit longer of a case.
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See, Stacey and Richard met each other in 2005 when he was a patient at her work and while she was kind of in the throes of her divorce, not exactly ready to be quite back out there yet. But timing wasn't going to matter because when Richard saw her, it was love at first sight.
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And even though she knew that it was very quick to jump into a new relationship, Stacy could not resist Richard, and they became inseparable. He was different from anybody that she had ever met, let alone ever been in a relationship with. Richard grew up and was born in a very stable, loving household in New Jersey, and he was one of three kids.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
He loved all things art-related when he was growing up, and so much so that he got a degree in art from Auburn University in Alabama. And although he didn't have any children of his own, he was an amazing uncle to his seven nieces and nephews, and he just loved kids. He had really cool hobbies that were not just related to art, too. He liked to also be on the open road with his motorcycle.
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He was even a hot air balloonist, which I didn't even know was a thing, but that's super cool. And I don't think that there are many people with that hobby. So it was something that just kind of made him a little bit more magnetic as a person, a little bit...
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quirky a little bit unique and just really magnetic but he was also just a genuinely really great guy too everybody loved him and anybody who befriended him even back in his childhood stayed friends with him well into adulthood that's always a telltale sign too if somebody you meet has friends that they knew from childhood that is definitely a sign of like good character in my opinion
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So in 2007, after living together for a little bit of time at Stacy's home in Snellville, the two of them decided to run off and to elope, and they didn't tell anybody. But luckily, since everybody loved Richard already, nobody was even upset about this secret wedding. In fact, Stacey's family considered him to be the best of all of her husbands, all of the ones that she had ever had.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Not only was he friendly and great, but he was also a stable guy who respected that Stacey had a full-time life and full-time career, full-time motherhood well before him, and that all of that just came as a package deal with her. He didn't just start dating Stacy and then try to keep the kids separate from their relationship.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
He made an active effort to get all of the people involved, all the children. Whether that was taking them out on motorcycle rides with him and Stacy, jet skiing, or something else, he always was happy to include the children on their adventures together. He even became a den leader for the two youngest boys Cub Scout group, something that he and Stacy did together.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And I was going to hold this one back because, I mean, it's not really tis the season. It's more Valentine's Day skewed. But we're going to do it differently this week. We're going to do one single case, a mini deep dive into it, and then we will be back next week with all the headline highlights, everything going on, and go through it from there.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And he wasn't just any old den leader either. He was one of the scouts' favorites because he was so fun, so interactive with the kids. I mean, everything was picture perfect. She was finally getting her happily ever after.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
He was also so close with Stacy's boys that he actually took the initiative to legally adopt Keith and Kevin, since at this point their biological dads weren't really in the picture much. He was a great dad. He was always attentive to what his kids needed or wanted. An example of that is Kevin's favorite movie at the time was Finding Nemo. So Richard painted his room the entire theme of the movie.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Richard was just the total package and truly someone that I think any single mom would hope for in their next partner. But unfortunately, not too long after their wedding, Richard lost his graphic design job. However, since Stacey still had her job, it didn't really affect them too much. Stacy had been making it work on her own salary for so long that she wasn't dependent on Richard's.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So Richard didn't really work after that, and instead he stayed busy taking care of the kids, and that became more of his focus, which then put Stacy in the position as the sole financial provider for the family. On Valentine's Day in 2010, Stacy and Richard planned to meet at Belton Bridge Park in Hall County.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
This is about an hour away from their house, and they were going to meet in the park to exchange their gifts. Now, Baldwin Bridge is a pretty woodsy and remote kind of park. It's great for fishing, for boating, even for walking. So the spot that Stacey and Richard had planned to meet up at was a pretty desolate area.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And they had stumbled upon it one time when they were out on a motorcycle ride, and it kind of became their little space, their little romantic spot, since it wasn't a very popular area of the park. And they even kind of, just to say, used it as a place to like hook up sometimes. I mean, it was like definitely their private little spot.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And apparently that was something that they liked to do at random places that they stumbled on during their motorcycle rides. I guess it just kind of added some sort of element of excitement and secrecy to their relationship. I mean, whatever. Who am I to judge? Not me. So the spot wasn't really a place that you would make plans to go to normally.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
I mean, think of it more or less as like a spot that maybe on a long road trip you would stop so that you could stretch your legs or a place to launch your boat into the water because there wasn't really any pavement for parking spots or lights. It wasn't really meant for much else. But Stacey thought that it would be the perfect place for a romantic and spontaneous date for Valentine's Day.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
With three kids at home, it wasn't exactly easy to get away or do anything too elaborate. So their special spot that they had found seemed like the best option, and Richard was super excited too.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So as the two of them kissed each other goodbye for the day, he expressed how he was looking forward to meeting up and even suggested that the two of them could maybe even get like a little makeout session while they were there. And apparently, Stacey had promised a little bit more than making out. Again, their secret little romp spot.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
But I wanted to just do things a little bit different this week. I hope you all had a great holiday with your family, regardless what holidays you celebrate. Hopefully, even if you're not celebrating, you're having some downtime and some time to focus on yourself or be with your loved ones. And yeah, so let me jump right in.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So later that evening, Stacey was still at work and had spent that weekend snowed in at her grandparents' house, which was an hour and a half away in Cleveland, Georgia. And Richard was there at her grandparents' house making a very special Valentine's Day dinner, not only for her, but for them as well. I mean, honestly, talk about like a true keeper that Richard was.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Stacey's grandparents needed 24-7 medical care, and Richard was just always there to step in for them when needed. I mean, it's truly remarkable. So Stacey was running late, so she called Richard and told him that she couldn't leave until a nurse came to replace her. So she told him, just head to the park without me. I will meet you there.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
I will be right behind you, and I'll be there as soon as I can. So Richard headed out, and Stacey left work a little after 9 p.m., and she headed to their secret meetup spot. This was about 20 minutes away from her job. But when she arrived at 9.30 or so, she made a truly gruesome discovery.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
You see, there in the dark, illuminated by the truck lights that were on due to his door being open, Richard was lying next to his Ford F-250 truck, and he was in a mixture of dirt and blood. He was dead and he had been shot multiple times. So Stacey was absolutely frantic and heartbroken, distraught, shocked, all of the emotions that she could feel. And she immediately called 911.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Shortly after the 911 call, the Hall County police officers showed up to investigate the scene. The whole thing seemed really off, though, due to how desolate this area was. But one thing was very clear. This wasn't a robbery gone bad because nothing had been taken from the scene.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Richard still had his wedding ring on, his wallet was still in the truck, and his $40,000 truck was just sitting there with the keys still in the ignition. It was obvious that nobody was trying to rob Richard. And again, this area was so hard to find. So was this targeted? I mean, it all seemed so random, but Richard was unarmed and he was in the middle of nowhere, yet he had been shot to death.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
And not just one gunshot either that we're talking. He was shot five times. He was shot once in the chest, twice in the abdomen, twice to his face, and authorities believed that at least one of those shots happened when he was still inside the car. But the police, they didn't have a ton to go off of.
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There was no surveillance cameras in the area, there were no fingerprints at the scene of the crime, It also apparently had recently rained in that area, so the ground was very soft and muddy. That was good, though, because it was a major win for the police because they were able to find some track marks, and that was all they had to go on.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
In 2010, 38-year-old Stacy and 46-year-old Richard Sheck seemed like the picture-perfect married couple. They lived in a beautiful home in Snellville, Georgia, with their three children, a 19-year-old named Doug, who went by DJ, a 13-year-old named Keith, and a 7-year-old named Kevin.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
I mean, luckily they did find three sets of tracks, but now it was, okay, what other evidence can we find and how do we put these tracks to use? So one belonged to Richard's truck, one belonged to Stacy's Ford Explorer, and then there was a third set of mystery tracks. Those tracks came in from the park and they could be followed from the road.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So this led police to the realization that whoever was driving that car was there before Richard arrived and then left after he died. Which really makes you wonder, who was just like hanging out in the middle of some random park at night? And again, this wasn't some popular park that was all lit up or had any lights, really. It was pitch black at night.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So I can't imagine many other people were planning to go meet their loved ones to exchange gifts on Valentine's Day in the middle of nowhere. In the pitch dark, like Stacey and Richard were. I mean, what would the chances be for that, right?
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Then, as police were about to wrap things up at the crime scene, Stacey was acting pretty panicky, and she made an unwarranted and downright jaw-dropping confession to the police. She made the arbitrary choice to tell the officers that she had been having an affair with a co-worker named Juan Reyes. And this wasn't some recent affair either. The two of them had been hooking up for years.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
So Stacey was then brought in for questioning, and talked about how yes, her marriage had ups and downs, but nothing too crazy. She then got a little personal at one point, and she started talking about how her and Richold's physical side of their marriage wasn't as great as she would have liked it to be, saying that they only had sex once every few months.
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226: Love, Lies, and Murder: A Valentine’s Day Turned Deadly
Then she was asked more about her affair with Juan, regarding how long it had been going on for, whether or not Richard had ever been suspicious of it, things like that. So Stacey talked about how at some point after the kids graduated, she probably would have officially left Richard for Juan, but she planned on sticking it out until then due to how close her sons were with Richard.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Officers conducted multiple welfare checks after she posted this, of course, because there was a lot of concern. But in the end, nothing ever happened because the police could not legally enter the home. And everything also appeared normal from the outside. So it wasn't like they could just like enter the house and check on things, right?
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So the investigation is still leaving so many unanswered questions. But the police now believe that Shane and Sue participated in what they're calling a collaborative suicide, even though Sue had died before Shane. The motive, though, for Shane's parents' murder is still unknown.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
However, the police said that they are closing the case since they now don't have anyone to charge with the crime, since they're all dead. But even so, I mean, what a devastating case, and it probably does go back to mental health or depression or something of that nature, but I don't know what the motive would be for the murder.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
That doesn't make much sense, and even though they can't charge anyone with a crime, it feels as though, to me at least, there should still be some more investigation done to give
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
his parents family members and friends closure and answers right and it's just chilling knowing that this couple was living with his parents dead bodies in the house and then shane and sue for whatever reason or maybe it was their plan all along but they felt like there was no way out other than taking their own lives it's just i don't know it's another case that kind of just leaves you scratching your head right you don't really know what to make of it
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, I want to start off with this new case that I found very interesting, and a lot of people are talking about it, because it's about a bestselling author who is now facing sexual assault allegations. Okay, so Neil Gaiman is a British bestselling author, and he's known for being one of the most popular comic and fiction authors, like, of this generation.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
All right, now before we continue, we are going to take a quick break, hear from today's sponsors, and thank you guys so much for understanding that sponsors are essential to keeping this podcast free. All right, you know what? The start of a new year always seems like a perfect time for a fresh start, right? We make resolutions to eat better, to exercise more, to break all of our bad habits.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
I wish I knew about PDS debt sooner because I am like a sucker for the point bonuses that sign up for credit cards, the miles, the this, the that. And really, before you know it, it's like the interest rate is killing you. You have all this debt. For me, it was always like I would just avoid it rather than actually address it.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So I wish I knew about this service way, way sooner than I found out about it. So if you guys are looking to kind of make those steps, even though it does feel overwhelming, check out PDS Debt and why not start now? I mean, make this the year that you take control of your debt. Get a free debt analysis right now at pdsdebt.com slash save. It only takes 30 seconds. That's pdsdebt.com slash save.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Find out why over 4,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutrafol for healthier hair. Nutrafol.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com promo code A-E. That's Nutrafol.com promo code A-E. Okay guys, so this next update is about an extremely sad case that happened back in July. We also did talk about it.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
I can't remember if we talked about it on Headline Highlights or if it was one of our Friday bonus episodes. I think it was Headline Highlights. But it was July 29th and three young girls who were on summer vacation were attending a Taylor Swift themed dance and yoga class over in the UK.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
But last week, he made headlines for something very different from the books, the movies, or the TV shows that he's been involved in. because this author is now facing a series of sexual misconduct accusations. Now, if you're not familiar with Neil, he wrote The Sandman and also, what's that other one? It was like, I think it was Tim Burton. Coraline? Coraline?
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
It was supposed to be a beautiful day of, you know, dancing, making friendship bracelets for the girls, and just being Swifties and having fun. But unfortunately, it turned out to be a day of absolute horror and violence.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
18-year-old Axel Rudacubana, who was 17 years old at the time, had planned out a stabbing rampage, and he ended up murdering three young girls, along with trying to kill 10 other people. See, out of nowhere, Axel ran into this building that the yoga and dance class was in and just began stabbing these girls. It was like a frenzy. It was like he was on some sort of rampage or frenzy.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
I don't even know how you can describe it. But the victims were so incredibly young. Their names were 9-year-old Alice Aguiar, 7-year-old Elsie Stancombe, and 6-year-old Bebe King. Now, Axel also stabbed two adults and eight other kids, who were all immediately rushed to the hospital for their injuries. Alice, Elsie, and Bebe unfortunately could not be saved though.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And as you can imagine, the community was absolutely rocked by this attack. I mean, it was just so heartbreaking. People who were getting together just for innocent fun and music and like togetherness. And this monster just came in on this full-blown stabbing frenzy. Taylor Swift and King Charles even met with some of the families after the attack.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And Taylor Swift also posted a message online the day after the attack. It read, The horror of yesterday's attack in Southport is washing over me continuously, and I'm just completely in shock. The loss of life and innocence and the horrendous trauma inflicted on everyone who was there, the families, the first responders, these were just little kids at a dance class.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, Axel pleaded not guilty last month, but prosecutors were obviously determined to put this guy behind bars. But something changed over the course of the few months, and now he has entered a guilty plea, which it'll save families and loved ones and witnesses a lot of pain and trauma by now not having to go through with the trial.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
He pleaded guilty to three counts of murder, ten counts of attempted murder, and he also pleaded guilty to additional charges related to possessing poison. Also, weirdly, for having an Al-Qaeda manual. Aside from pleading guilty, Axel was pretty much refusing to speak. He didn't really say his name, he didn't identify himself, he just responded saying guilty in a very quiet voice.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
He now faces life imprisonment, and at his sentencing, the victim's families and the surviving victims will be present. But the authorities still have no idea what Axel's motive was. I mean, this was a completely senseless and unnecessary act of violence. It should have never happened. And because of him, these three little girls lost their lives in such a devastating way. It's just horrible.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And now thinking what those families have to go through, I mean, just thank God this guy is seeing justice. Now, I want to give you some updates about a case that I covered last week here on Headline Highlights, and that is the murder of Heather Williams in North Carolina.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, when I covered it last week, a lot of information was still missing, so it ended on, I don't know, a bit of a cliffhanger. But just to recap, 25-year-old Heather was last seen on January 4th on Ring camera footage, leaving her house and getting into a gray four-door sedan.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
I'd never watched it personally, so I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce it. But both of those have been turned into a TV series and a movie. However, now, New York Magazine came out with an article that is called, quote, And in this article, it contains the stories of eight different women who talk about their experiences with Neil. Now, the first allegation came to light back in 2023.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Heather looked like she got into this car willingly, but then, after looking at the footage, none of her family or friends recognized this car, so it wasn't anybody that they knew. There were questions about if she had maybe met somebody online, if she was secretly going out to meet them, but nobody really had any concrete answers. But after that night, Heather went missing.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
No one had seen from her, heard from her, or had any idea where she could have been. All they knew was that she had gotten into that car with this unknown person. Now, if you don't remember, Heather also had suffered a car accident and had severe cognitive impairment. She had to take medication every day, and because of this, she was immediately classified as missing and endangered.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Her family then reached out to the media, asking if anyone had any information, you know, any info at all, to just please come forward and help them find Heather. But on January 10th, they unfortunately received heartbreaking news because Heather's body had been found dead in a wooded area. Now, looking at Heather's phone records, her last call that was made went out to an unknown number.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And this number belonged to whoever was driving the car that night that she, you know, got picked up and then went missing. And as some people suspected, it ended up being a man that she met on Facebook. It looked as if Heather was going out on some sort of online date and was just kind of sneaking out to go meet this person.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Originally, police didn't release the name of the driver, which led everyone to believe that he probably was a suspect and there was probably a reason that they weren't releasing his name. And as it turns out, that theory was 100% right because 30-year-old Tyrell Searmans was arrested and charged with first-degree murder.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And let me just say, this guy has some criminal history that is very, very frightening. A former employer of Tyrell said that Tyrell has mental issues and that he should have never been released from his prior conviction.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
The employer said that he hired Tyrell for some construction work, but then he had to fire him after only six months because he just couldn't do his work, he was rude to customers, he was unpredictable, it just was not a good fit. However, what happened next is just insane, because after he got fired, Tyrell kidnapped him. He also beat him up.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
He even shot him, which, thankfully, he survived, but he, like, tried to retaliate so hard on his boss. This guy also said that Tyrell also tried shooting his fiancée, then tried to burn his house on fire while they were still inside of it. I mean... Just absolutely wild and kind of takes, like, retaliation to a whole other level, if I'm being honest.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
But very scary and clearly, you know, unstable in some regard, in my opinion. Now, get this, though. Tyrell only received five years in prison for this attack because he ended up taking a plea deal. So he was cut short, you know? He didn't have to go much longer. The employer, though, said if Tyrell was given the proper sentence the first time, Heather would still be alive.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Not trying to be disrespectful, just being honest. Tyrell was denied bond at his first hearing, and if he's convicted, he faces life in prison or even the death penalty. Heather's sister Mary attended the hearing, and she said, quote, We lost Heather, a daughter and a sister.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And to think that, you know, that a whole 25 years of life can be taken away at the hands of one person, it's just hard to wrap your head around. It's unfathomable. And in an interview, Mary also said that she doesn't blame the justice system for letting Tyrell out of prison. She just solely blames him.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
It specifically came to light on a podcast series that was called Master the Allegations Against Neil Gaiman. And the podcast shared the stories of five different women, and originally these women stayed anonymous or even used fake names to really try and protect their privacy. Yet they were speaking out with their experiences.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
It also just breaks my heart and it's so aggravating that this girl survived a horrific car accident. She was in a coma for months. She had to relearn how to walk, speak, live her life, and basically just start over. I mean, she was such a fighter and such a strong woman and so resilient and came through so much. And then as she gets through all of that, she just is murdered by some scumbag.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
a guy who was known to be a violent, dangerous, and disgusting person and who was just released from prison. It's just so sad.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And some of the initial thoughts, of course, were that when they were first speculating that she had met somebody online was like, okay, this poor girl, she's probably just trying to feel seen, feel like a normal 25-year-old, and this guy just capitalized on that and totally took advantage of that. And it's really scary because it shows you what people can be like who you meet online. It's just...
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
very very it's just unsettling and scary and it makes me worry for humanity and as a parent now let me talk about this next case because this is the one that so many of you have been asking me to cover and it's the case about Naziah Harris so I'm going to give you some backstory and then we're going to talk about what's going on with this case
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, Naziah had first gone missing back on January 9th. She got off her school bus and then never was seen again. However, now Jarvis Butts, a 42-year-old man, has been charged in the murder of 13-year-old Naziah Harris. Jarvis is pleading not guilty, but he's facing charges of murder, criminal sexual conduct, and child sex abuse.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, although he is charged with murder, her body has not been found. As I mentioned, she was last seen on January 9th getting off her bus, but nothing has been found since then. However, Jarvis was allegedly having a relationship with Naziah, and he also has allegedly been sexually assaulting her since 2022.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Apparently, the reason they knew each other and the reason they had a relationship is because he was the father of one of her cousins, so her uncle. Now, Jarvis also has an extensive history of sexual assault with minors. Prosecutors said that Jarvis has also sexually assaulted an 8-year-old family member and a girlfriend's 4-year-old daughter.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So disgusting, too, because apparently when he assaulted the 4-year-old, this 4-year-old caught chlamydia from the assault. absolutely disgusting. And I mean, like, what kind of pervert, disgusting freak does this? Police have said that even though they haven't found Naziah's body yet, there is a lot of evidence supporting that Jarvis is the killer.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And one piece of disturbing evidence was the text messages that were found between the two of them. And let me just say to you right now, these text messages are truly disgusting. These text messages were read out loud in court, and along with these text messages were also nude photos that were being sent back and forth.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And now, over the last couple of years, even more women have come forward really corroborating their stories. And this is just a snippet from the opening of that podcast series, but I want you to take a listen.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
In these texts, which I'm not going to read all of them and put them all on display, but you can Google them, they are very sexually explicit messages. Jarvis is asking for nudes, he's asking for oral sex, and it just paints the picture of like a predator grooming type relationship. Remember, he was 42, she was 13.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
The texts also reveal that Naziah was pregnant and that Jarvis knew that she was pregnant at the time that she went missing. According to his search history, after he found out that Naziah was pregnant, he was looking up terminations, termination pills, even reading about drinking red antifreeze as a method to terminate.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And on the day that Naziah went missing, January 9th, Jarvis was supposed to turn himself into the police on a gun charge that he had. However, that date ended up getting pushed back to February, so because he didn't go to the police station and turn himself in, he instead met up with Naziah. The two of them apparently took a short trip together, and then Jarvis checked into a motel.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
The next day, he was tracked to a river, and the police found the clothing that Naziah was last seen wearing.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Authority said that the clothing looked like there could have been a struggle, and based on this, people believe that Jarvis either didn't want to deal with the baby, so he killed Naziah, or he tried to perform his own sick, twisted termination and ended up killing her, or that he didn't want to get charged with sexual assault, so he couldn't have evidence of that, so he had no choice but to kill Naziah and the child.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. And today is Headline Highlights, which means we are going over everything that is happening this week in the true crime world.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Either way, whatever the situation and truth is, the suggestion is that he was just trying to cover everything up. In court, the judge said to Jarvis, you're the monster in this whole picture. And here's a clip from when the judge sends Jarvis to trial, and it is truly a very difficult listen because you can just hear the disdain in her voice.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Naziah was so young, and she absolutely was failed by those who were supposed to protect her. Her story is one of those that is very difficult to hear, but it needs to be shared because so badly she deserves justice and her unborn child.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Naziah's cousin, Roxy, who didn't live in Detroit with Naziah, said that she wants this story to reach everyone because it's not only happening in Detroit, but it's happening everywhere. She said, Which, I couldn't agree more, 1,000%.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Even though it's really difficult for us to share these stories and hear these stories, it is so important because we need to shine a light on what is really going on out there. And I was talking about this yesterday for some reason with, was it my husband or was it my friend? I can't remember. But I don't know the exact statistic off the top of my head. I'd have to go back and look.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
But it's like a staggering percentage. And again, I don't know that this is accurate, but I'm making it up. But something like 80% or even higher of sexual assaults against children happen with people who are close to the child. Not strangers, not random people walking on the street, but people who are trusted adults, family members, teachers, coaches, friends.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So it's like you just have to always look at things very closely and be on alert. It's sad, but it's the truth. So that is what we have got this week for headline highlights. But as a reminder, Friday, I am doing a mini case deep dive. It's a bonus episode. You can get access to that over on Patreon or over on Apple Podcasts. But this Friday, we'll be talking about the case of Jessica Barnes.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
She's a South Carolina woman who went missing this past August. And this case turned out to be way more complicated than just a missing person's case. It unleashed this whole web of lies. I mean, relationships, polygamy, pregnancies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
this guy who had multiple wives and wasn't telling them that he was married to multiple people then he added a third woman into this like house of whores i mean it's a very very recent case it hasn't been closed the hearings and the trials are still going on but we are talking about everything so you can listen to that this friday right here on apple podcast or over on patreon that's where you can get access i'll link everything in the show notes of this episode and when you sign up you also not only will hear that but you will unlock about 75 extra bonus episodes so
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
If you're ever looking for more content to binge and little mini case deep dives, you can check it out over there. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode with me. I will be back with you first thing Monday morning with an all new deep dive into a case. But until then, please stay safe. Please watch your back. Don't join any cults and just be nice and don't kill people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
All right, guys, thanks for tuning in and I will talk with you soon. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So let me start by saying this. Apparently, Neil has some kind of obsession with BDSM. So some of these women did say that they did end up participating in some of these activities with Neil, but that there was often a lack of consent and that he would use this kind of abuse of power that he had over them. And Neil is a very powerful man.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
He's got lots of money, lots of influence, and with that comes a lot of intimidation. So the allegations take place over several years with all sorts of different women, as I mentioned, and one of the main accusers in this article was a woman named Scarlett Pavolich, and she was a former nanny for Neil and for his ex-wife.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So one day Scarlett apparently was taking a bath in Neil's house, then all of a sudden he just came in, allegedly got into the tub with her, naked, and just started kind of making advances against her. He then asked her to sit on his lap, which she said no to, but from there he escalated and he allegedly sexually assaulted her.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
She went on to say that over time, Neil continuously coerced her into these sexual encounters, and she even said that one time he forced her to perform oral sex on him, and that during that he was so violent with her, if you can imagine what's happening, you know, move in the head and you catch my drift, but that he was so violent with her that she ended up vomiting.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, this next part is very, very gross, but she said that after she threw up, because he was so forceful, he forced her to eat it. Really disgusting, right? Like, forced her to eat her own vomit. Now, another woman came forward named Caroline Walner, and she shared her experience, and her story was very similar to Scarlett's.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Caroline worked as a caretaker in one of Neil's houses, and she said that these sexual encounters kind of became sort of transactional, and she was used to them since she was living there for quite some time.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
However, she said that when it crossed the line for her was when they were lying in bed with Neil's child one night, and Neil reached across his kid, grabbed Caroline's hand, and placed it on his penis. She ended up receiving a $300,000 settlement, all in exchange for signing an NDA and for leaving, you know, the property and no longer having a job. but some really gross accusations.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And one of the cases that we actually are going to be discussing is one that so many of you guys have been leaving in my comments over on YouTube. I've been receiving some DMs, some emails. And it's the case about Naziah Harris. And she's a 13-year-old girl. There's some really disturbing text messages have emerged.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Another woman named Catherine Kendall said that there was one time when she and Neil were in a hotel together, and he climbed on top of her even though she clearly did not want him to. Later, he offered her $60,000 for therapy. And that's not all.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Another woman named Kendra Stout said that she and Neil went on a trip together, and even though she had a health condition and didn't want to have sex with him and was saying no, that he forced himself on her anyway, and she used, you know, rape as the... actual word of what took place.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, Neal and his lawyers have so far denied all of these accusations, calling them, quote, fake and deplorable. But representatives of Neal also said that sexual degradation, bondage, domination, sadism, and masochism may not be everyone's taste, but between consenting adults, BDSM is lawful.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So they're really trying to make the argument that, yes, he was into this BDSM lifestyle, you know, 50 shades of gray and then some, But that, and kind of saying, you know, we know that that might not be everybody's taste, that that might just be certain people's fetishes and kinks, but it doesn't make it illegal. Which, you're right, it certainly doesn't make it illegal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
But it is illegal when somebody says no and they force themselves on them anyway. I mean, that's 100%.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
illegal i think we can all agree on that now with all these allegations coming to light neil's film projects have definitely been affected yet what's interesting is his fans are definitely coming to his defense and i think we're always going to see something like that where women come out they share their story their truths and charges may come you know, you're facing all these accusations.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
It seems like he settled quite a few times as well to try to keep things quiet. But a lot of people are on his side saying that these women are extorting him, that they were willing participants. And mostly that's his fans and people who idolize him who are saying that, but it still is making this very, very messy. So research it, take what you want with it, and we will follow it closely.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, I know in my last couple episodes, I have been saying, you know, or asking, I should say, like, what's in the water in New York City right now? But once again, we are back in New York. This time because a 14-year-old boy named Caleb Rehose was stabbed in New York City while he was walking to school. Just a 14-year-old boy walking to school and was stabbed.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So Caleb was walking on East 138th Street when around 925 a.m., this random man just came up to Caleb, completely unprovoked, and stabbed him twice. And not only just stabbed him, not as though that's okay, but stabbed him in the heart twice. Twice, Caleb then terrified and scared, and just remember, a 14-year-old boy, he called his father right after he was stabbed.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
He told his father that he, quote, couldn't breathe and that he was scared. And his father, unfortunately, this is super haunting and just unimaginable, but after Caleb called him, his father was then forced to listen to his son dying over the phone. Caleb was rushed to the hospital, but unfortunately, the doctors could not save him.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And so many of you guys have just wanted me to talk about it to share what we know, what's going on with it, because it was kind of, you know, a confusing and a little bit of a complex case. So we are going to be talking about that today. We also are going to be talking about updates in the case of the missing girl from North Carolina, which I talked about in last week's headline highlights.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, the big question in all of this, of course, is like, who did this? What kind of monster would do this? Police have now arrested 29-year-old Waldo Mejia, and let me tell you, when you take a closer look into this guy's history, you will think the same exact thing that I did. How on earth was this guy, this creep, this monster, even allowed to be walking the streets?
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
because Waldo has an extensive, extensive history of mental health problems and run-ins with the NYPD. In fact, just days earlier, literally days earlier, Waldo stabbed a man in the arm inside a subway station. And this subway station, guys, was on the same corner where he murdered Caleb. Now, in addition to that, Waldo was also arrested this past November for harassment of his neighbor.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Now, this neighbor caught all of this on their Ring camera footage. And get this, because this footage, if you're not watching this on YouTube, guys, and just listening, I highly encourage you to go watch the YouTube version. But it is so eerie because when Waldo saw that there was a camera there, you see him get angry and then punch the wall.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Minutes later, he starts walking down the stairs toward the camera with a knife and then stabs the camera until it shattered because this was an indoor ring camera that like pointed at the stairs. It is terrifying.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
so eerie and twisted because you're you literally it's like it's almost as though the pov the point of view is like you're the camera right and so it looks like he's walking towards you down the stairs and then he sees the camera and just starts stabbing it so he was arrested for that but then just three days later the neighbor said that waldo was released and then back in this apartment building
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
The neighbor said that sometimes he would not sleep at all when he was thinking about Waldo. That's how terrified he was. At a press conference, police even called Waldo a violent man with a documented history of mental health interactions with the NYPD. I mean, this guy had four prior arrests, and they were all unsealed, and it kind of just goes to show that he clearly was a danger.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
I mean, a danger to society a thousand times, right? Now, on the day that he stabbed Caleb, images of Waldo from security cameras were posted online. And from these images, you can see a police officer actually realizing that he was the same man that was wanted for that stabbing in the subway station just days earlier.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Police then went to his home the night after the stabbing and, of course, arrested him. And when they arrested him, they said that he was wearing the exact same sneakers and pants that he wore during the murder. He also still had a knife on him. They also found a pair of white gloves that Waldo wore during the attack, and they also reported that the knife that he still had was still bloody.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So finally, now, Waldo currently remains in jail with no bond, and he's there on murder, manslaughter, and weapon charges. Meanwhile, Caleb's community, I mean, poor 14-year-old Caleb, they are just, like, reeling. They held a memorial basketball game and a vigil to honor him and to also support his family.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Caleb's cousin, Kayla, said that Caleb had the absolute biggest heart, that he wanted to be a football player, and he just wanted to take care of his family.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Before the basketball game, the community gathered to release balloons that were light blue, which was Caleb's favorite color, and they're just demanding justice for Caleb's murder.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
And don't worry, for those of you who didn't listen to last week, even though you should have, I will give you a little recap of what is going on over there. We're going to talk about some brand new cases that of course broke this week. One case that we're talking about is about a couple who lived with multiple dead bodies in a freezer for months and months and months.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
this lunatic who had a history just comes out of nowhere and stabs him twice in the heart and so scared which again is just so heartbreaking he was so scared that all he knew to do is call his dad and just say i'm hurt i can't breathe and it just it breaks my heart for his whole family and especially for his dad who had to hear that and have that be his last memory of his son it is just incredibly sad
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So I'm hopeful that Waldo is finally held accountable and locked up for, honestly, the rest of his life. Now we're going to move into a very disturbing, unsettling case right now. I want to warn you, if you are eating, you might want to take a break. If you haven't eaten yet... Better. You probably won't want to eat after this, though, but it's very disgusting and disturbing.
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235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So on New Year's Eve in Washington, police entered a home only to find the grizzling sight of an old married couple. They had been murdered and stored in a freezer. But that's not all that they found. In the home, authorities also found this couple's son and his girlfriend, and they were both dead. So, four dead people. And this story is definitely a very chilling mystery.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So, let me kind of back up. So, the older couple's names were William, who was 68 years old, and Eileen, who was 66 years old. They were reportedly killed by multiple stab wounds, and William also suffered from blunt force trauma. Now, their son, Shane, along with his girlfriend, Sue, were also found dead inside the home, as I mentioned. They, however, both died of gunshot wounds.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Shane's death has been confirmed a suicide, but the circumstances of Sue's death are, quote, undetermined. Now, what is confirmed is that Shane was definitely the last person to die out of all four of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Authorities ended up finding this horrific, you know, quadruple dead death scene when they were conducting a welfare check after some family members became worried after not speaking to any of them for a while. And it's not clear which bodies the investigators found first, but it is clear that they were shocked to find four dead family members inside this house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
William and Eileen, Shane's parents, were found in this like leaking, disgusting kitchen freezer. On the outside of the fridge, there were a couple of suspicious notes, which the police realized, you know, were indicators of the parents' dead bodies. But take a listen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
So there were two notes that were found. One read, time of death, July 24th, 545 a.m. And the other one read, time of death, July 24th, 3 p.m. Which is so creepy to me because it sounds like their son literally wrote down the exact time that he murdered them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
I mean, there is definitely a lot for us to talk about today. So get cozy. I don't know if you're driving, if you're at home, if you're cleaning, if you're maybe scrubbing toilets, whatever it is you're doing, you're going to be with me for a minute because we have got a lot to talk about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
Police have said that Shane is, of course, the main suspect in his parents' murders, but they're still unsure if his girlfriend Sue was an accomplice in all of this or if she had anything to do with it. Also, Shane's parents were killed in July, and according to a medical examiner and the notes on the top of the freezer, that means that Shane and Sue were living in this house for six months.
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
while his parents' dead bodies were in that freezer. They were literally living in a house with dead bodies inside of it for half a year. And not just any dead bodies, not that that would make it okay, but his parents. By the looks of it, this is seeming like a case of extremely poor mental health, but not entirely sure because, unfortunately, we've also seen some cases where...
Serialously with Annie Elise
235: 13-year-old Na’Ziyah Harris, Couple Lived with Dead Bodies, Stabbing Frenzy, & Update on Missing Girl in NC
You know, kids, siblings, spouses do live in the house with deceased bodies. One person we talked about last year even drove around in a car for like weeks and weeks with the dead bodies in his car. But anyway, back in November, Sue had posted online that her and Shane were considering suicide. She was very vocal about it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
We can get a group pic after and spots are limited, as I said. So I'll put the link in the description of this episode. So if you do want to join us, you can go ahead and claim your tickets there. But first come, first served. And it's for what time is it? It's gonna be at seven o'clock. So I think arrival time is 630. And then the movie will start at seven. So really excited to meet a
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
especially from back in the live tour days. I just, which I just say that like it was 20 years ago. It was literally last year. But I love just like getting out in the community and meeting you guys face to face and talking about cases and other things. So I'm really excited. This was something that just kind of was pulled together last minute. It wasn't super planned in advance.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So this might be something to watch out for in the pop culture world. And it might turn into the next big scandal if Kanye continues kind of going off this unhinged, derailed wagon where he's like off on like another planet, right? So we're just going to have to wait and see what all happens. But what do you guys think about this?
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, next up, we are going to talk about the influencer who was stabbed on the live stream, the horrific stepmother and stepson situation. And then also we are going to talk about the missing student. But first, we are going to take a quick break. It feels like the last few years there has definitely been a shift out there where we're wanting to all get clean.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And I mean that in terms of like cleaning up our diets, removing harsh chemicals from our homes, things like that. So why are we still relying on outdated remedies for our health? And let me put you on to something better. It's CBDistillery, the highest quality of CBD for sleep, stress, and even post-workout pain relief. And get this, 90% of people report better sleep with CBD, which that's huge.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, personally, my favorite product that I have tried with them is called the Ah Distilled, which is a CBD oil tincture. It's for relief and relaxation. You just put this under your tongue and it just really kind of helps you relax. Just like it says, relax, kind of give you some relief.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So that's why I wish I would have been able to give you guys more notice. But for those of you who can make it tonight, I am really excited. And again, totally free. So I'll put that link in now for today. And I apologize for those of you who are watching this on YouTube. It's obviously now past Thursday. So I apologize that you weren't able to get this notification.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
I like to take that because sometimes I get very tightly wound as I'm sure you can tell in a lot of these episodes. It's been a game changer for me because sometimes I need to just like take a beat, calm down, enjoy life a little bit and like not be so like, you know, like just wound up tight.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So whether it's unwinding after a long day like me or soothing sore muscles, CB Distillery has a plant-based solution that actually works. With over 2 million satisfied customers and a 100% money-back guarantee, you can trust that you're getting the best. So if you're still reaching for remedies straight off, you know, grandma's medicine shelf, maybe it's time for an upgrade.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And right now, you can save 20% with promo code AE at cbdistillery.com. That's cbdistillery.com, promo code AE. cbdistillery.com, not available in Idaho, Iowa, or South Dakota. All right, let's be real. I've talked to you guys about this before, but I feel like I need to talk to you about it again, especially since today my hair is up in a top knot. And that is that thinning hair is frustrating.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
It can creep up slowly or it could hit you all at once. And then before you know it, you're like, if you're like me, you're scanning the mirror, you're wondering if there's anything that actually works, if it's all just fake, fake news. That's exactly where I was because I started losing my hair right in like the, I have no other way to describe this guys, but like the cul-de-sac region. Okay.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So whenever I put my hair in a bun or pull it back, it looks like I have a receding hairline. And I've tried a lot of things, let me just tell you. But when I started using the iRestore Elite, which I had never even heard about that, but then I started trying it and using it, I felt like I finally found a real solution.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
The device is lightweight, it's hands-free, it is so comfortable, so I barely even notice that I'm wearing it. I wear it when I'm binge watching my shows on Peacock, whether it's, you know, The Traders, which is now over, but recently I binged Paradise on Hulu and that was so good.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So like I'll wear it while I'm catching up on a show, sometimes even when I'm answering emails, even when I'm just like editing my videos. I can use the iRestore Elite without any hassle. And the best part is it actually works. That's a big deal. And I also gotta say, I turned my sister Amy onto this too, and she's gonna kill me if she's listening right now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
But the other day I went into her office and she's like, hey, look at my hairline. Look at my hairline. And she like pulled her hair back and she had all these like little new baby hair sprouting. And she's all, that's not breakage, right? That's new hair, right? And I was like analyzing her entire scalp. And it was. It was all new hair, which don't kill me, Amy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
so the iristore elite has more lasers more scalp coverage more power than any other at-home hair regrowth device which means faster better results plus they back it up with a 12-month money-back guarantee so you can try it risk-free so if you're dealing with hair thinning or hair loss don't wait
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
For a limited time, my listeners get $625 off the iRestore Elite when you use promo code AE at iRestoreLaser.com. That's $625 off at iRestoreLaser.com with promo code AE. Give yourself the gift of hair confidence this spring. You deserve it. iRestoreLaser.com, promo code AE. Okay, so now I want to talk with you about this female influencer who was stabbed to death in Japan.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
But all the more reason to listen to the podcast before it goes on YouTube, because then there's no delay in information. You get everything in real time. No. So today is headline highlights, of course. And we are going to talk about everything going on in the true crime world this week. Not everything, I guess, because that would we'd be here forever.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Again, all while on a live stream. And this case may be one of the craziest things that I've heard of when it comes to social media. Because this female influencer in Japan named Eri Sato...
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
she was stabbed to death last wednesday and like i said the whole attack happened while she was on live stream so ari was 22 years old and she has a couple thousand followers so she was on live stream around 9 50 a.m while just walking through a neighborhood in tokyo documenting what she was doing the errands she was running the thing she was grabbing but then all of a sudden people heard her yelling she was yelling help help and then the phone screen went dark
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Hey, True Crime Besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are all having a good week so far that, you know, you got through midweek and you're almost ready for the weekend. I do have an exciting announcement though. If you are somebody who lives in the LA or Orange County area,
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
so people who were watching her live stream of course got scared got super worried so then people started commenting things like somebody help where'd she go is she okay the next thing they knew police and ambulance sirens were heard on the live stream like the whole crime the reaction everything was just happening live which i can't imagine literally hearing somebody's death on your screen when you're just trying to watch something in the morning casually and like
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
watch somebody running errands or grabbing coffee or whatever and then you literally hear and witness a murder it is so chilling so her live stream finally went completely dark and at that point ari was also rushed to the hospital she had suffered more than 30 stab wounds she had been stabbed in the head the neck and the torso after she got to the hospital doctors tried to do everything that they could but unfortunately the damage was too extensive
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Ari was unable to make it. Then, after the attack, photos were posted online from people who were there and witnessed the attack. These photos showed Ari lying on the ground, dead, and covered in blood. Now, at the scene, the police arrested a 42-year-old man named Kenji Takono, and that's when the investigators learned that this attack was, in fact, not a random one.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Kenji and Ari actually had some history. Now, at first, it looked like Aerie was just killed by some crazy fan who was stalking her. But it turns out there was a little bit more to this story. Kenji told the police that he had first met Aerie through her live streams online. He had also met her a few times in person. Then, in 2022, he started loaning her money.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And I'm not really sure the entire story behind it, but apparently they had some sort of understanding, some sort of financial agreement, where Kenji was going to loan her money, and then eventually she would pay him back. So Kenji said that Eri had told him she was in financial trouble, and because of that, he agreed to help her out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So he ended up loaning her a total of 2.2 million yen, which equates to almost $15,000. But then Eri never paid him back. Now Kenji wanted his money back. He apparently even tried to sue her, and she received a court order to pay him back. But even so, she never ended up paying him back. So this, for one reason or another, obviously drove Kenji to some sort of breaking point.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
But some of the big dial ups that I want to share with you and so many of these that you guys have been requesting for more information on. I've been able to do these quick little YouTube shorts or things over on my Instagram story and reels where I'm giving you guys updates about these cases as they're breaking. But it's of course, I'm limited to, you know, 90 seconds or three minutes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So when Eri announced that she was going to go live, she was going to go on her livestream, he drove over 60 miles, 6-0, to get to the same neighborhood that she was in. He ended up being able to track her down by recognizing the buildings that were showing in the back of her livestream, like literally tracking her in real time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Then when he attacked her, he used a survival knife, which is very similar to a K-bar knife, which is kind of one that Brian Koberger allegedly used in the Idaho 4 case. So you can imagine it is like a massive weapon. And he used that and he stabbed her to death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, when he was confronted by the police, they found two knives on him, and he actually didn't even try to run, try to argue, try to cover. He admitted to the entire thing. However, he also told them that he didn't mean to kill her, which I don't really know how that works, okay? Because how do you not... try to kill somebody, yet you stab them over 30 times.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
You stab them in the head, the neck, the stomach, the torso, like 30 times, but you're not trying to kill them? That doesn't really make sense, right? Although I will say we also know that in a lot of these cases when it's a stabbing case and there's that many stab wounds and stab stabbings, like individual stabbings, that it can be considered...
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
either a crime of passion or overkill or something like that. So it's also possible that maybe he didn't mean to kill her. I don't know if that's real or not, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here, guys. But maybe he wanted to just scare her. Or maybe just stab her once. I don't know. Not like that's any better. I don't know why he's saying all this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
But anyway, my point is that like maybe he flew into a blind rage and then this was overkill. It was a crime of passion. But personally, I doubt it. I think that if you're going and approaching somebody, watching them driving 60 miles to where they are, bringing two knives with you, and then you stab them 30 times, for me, I'm going to call premeditated. It ain't Landon for me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So as of right now, Kenji has been arrested, but he hasn't officially been charged with anything yet. However, the authorities did say that they plan to charge him with murder. And I don't know, I think that maybe this is also a case of where this man became just fixated on her, obsessed with her online. We know they met a couple of times in person.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
maybe she was I don't want to say sugar baby but like she maybe she was playing to how cute she is and that she's an influencer and once again she said she was in financial trouble so he felt like there was some sort of parasocial connection and he wanted to help her and then maybe he thought that if he was like saving her from her financial trouble that she would want to be with him that maybe she would start treating him more special and then when he realized that she was just after his money he got pissed and he wanted you know to retaliate
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
I don't know. I guess we'll see what happens in this case as we learn more. There are a lot of different theories and rumors out there, but at the end of the day, whether or not he was scammed or not, murdering somebody, I think we can all agree, is never okay, and he should have known better. He was, what, 45 years old, and she was only 22 years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So, I don't know, not making it right to scam him, of course not, but she was young. She had her whole life ahead of her, and maybe that's a cautionary tale for anybody who you know, is on the influencing life trying to get money out of somebody, maybe this is a good reason why you shouldn't because you never can predict how people are going to react.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now let's talk about this psychotic stepmother who allegedly held her stepson captive for 20 years because this case is wild and it's being described as something literally out of a horror movie. It also takes the idea of an evil stepmother to like a whole other level, but don't get me started on that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So now I'm over here and I want to give you more information on these cases but as a reminder if you want any of like the breaking news information right away and you don't want to wait till a Monday or Thursday episode you can follow me on all platforms at at underscore Annie Elise and you'll be able to keep up to date with all of that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So in February of 2025, a 32-year-old man in Connecticut set his house on fire, but you'll never guess why. Apparently, he lit his bedroom on fire on purpose because he was trying to escape. He was trying to escape his stepmom, who had been holding him hostage in that house for over 20 years.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So the fire and the police department responded to it, and like I said, it all went down in February, but it's all coming to light right now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
which I'm sure we're going to see an episode of Dateline on this in the very near future because 20 years, 20 years, and this kind of goes to a Headline Highlights episode that I recorded and aired, what was it, like, I don't know, four weeks ago maybe, maybe five weeks ago, where I was like, are you guys like me or do I just have intrusive thoughts?
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Because literally when I'm driving in any given place, I'm always looking around the neighborhoods and looking around the buildings being like, I wonder how many people are being held captive right now or are in a tent in the backyard. Or if there's a house that has some boarded up windows, I always start wondering. And I asked people on that episode, I'm like, is that like you? That's me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
That's where my mind goes all the time. Also, if I'm ever in a public area, like a concert or a mall or something like that, I start thinking to myself, like, how many people here have killed somebody? How many people here are pedophiles? How many people? And like, a lot of people were like, oh my God, I'm not alone. I think that way too. But then a lot of people were like, Annie,
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
you have intrusive thoughts it's also could be a form of OCD like you should probably get that checked I was also recording this from my brother's cabin in Big Bear at the time in the mountains and there was no lighting and so people were like speaking of it looks like you're being held hostage right now like are you okay so anyway my point is I feel like I always think about this
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
I always, wherever I am, I'm wondering what's really happening in these homes that I'm seeing. And this, again, is just like a psychotic example that it is happening. It's happening right under our noses. I mean, she held him there allegedly for 20 years. Now, the man's name hasn't been released, but the stepmother's name is Kimberly Sullivan, and she's 56 years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
She allegedly started the abuse and started holding him captive when he was just 11 years old. So this man said that he was constantly locked in that one bedroom almost all day and all night, and he had no heat and no air conditioning. He was also only given a tiny bit of food and water.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
He also didn't have access to a bathroom, so he said that in order to use the bathroom, he connected a bunch of straws together, then hung that out the window so that he could pee through the straw and it would be eliminated outside. which I don't even really understand how that works, but there are a lot of unanswered questions here.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
He also was never taken to the doctors for checkups, never taken to the dentist, so eventually whenever he would eat, sometimes literal pieces of his teeth would just start breaking off in his mouth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
But let me talk to you about some of these cases that we're going to be reviewing together today. First and foremost, we're going to be talking about a case that is coming out of New York City, where once again, somebody was lit on fire. Now, last time we heard about this, it was in the subway, and it was a woman. This time, it's a man, and it was in the middle of Times Square.
Serialously with Annie Elise
253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
He would also have to cut his own hair because he of course never was taken to a barber, and sometimes instead of actually drinking the small amount of water that he was given, he would save it so that he could try to bathe himself. The man said that growing up, he was constantly starving.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
He even said that in grade school, before he was locked away, he would always beg the students for extra food. But then, once he was pulled out of school, after the fourth grade, he was only allowed outside of his room for 15 minutes every single day, and that was in the morning to do some chores.
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Then he would be given two sandwiches for the entire day, that's all he was given to eat, and two glasses of water. He was kept a secret for basically his entire life. And when he was finally rescued, he, as I said, was 32 years old. He was 5'9", and he only weighed 68 pounds. 68 pounds for a 32-year-old man who is standing at 5'9". You can only imagine how emaciated that is, right?
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It is a horrifying thought to think about. Now, the bedroom that he was allegedly kept in was a 9-by-8-foot room on the second floor of the house. But like I said, after 20 years of this, he finally had enough, and on February 17th, he started devising his escape plan. He had a few pieces of paper, he had some hand sanitizer, and he had a lighter.
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So with just using those three things, he was able to set his room on fire. And then once the fire was in full force and started burning, Kimberly woke up and she called 911.
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it was pretty easy to carry him out of the house because like i said he only weighed 68 pounds the police said that he looked dirty his hair was matted and his teeth looked completely rotten and i'm gonna play some body cam footage here from the rescue you can listen to it here of course on the podcast and then if you want to watch the visual you can go check it out on youtube
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But in this audio, you can hear Kimberly and she's shouting about the dog that she's holding. She isn't even really concerned about her stepson. She literally just keeps yelling about her dog, who is already outside of the fire. Meanwhile, her stepson is still trapped inside. So take a listen.
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So we're going to talk about all of that. There's also a case that is breaking all the way over in Tokyo, and it's about a female influencer who was live-streaming
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The stepson immediately told the responding officers that he had started this fire on purpose, and he said that the reason he did that is because he wanted, quote, his freedom. Then, once he was loaded into the ambulance, he began to tell them everything. He told them about the abuse, the lack of food and water, and then he told them about how he started the fire.
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The Waterbury police chief said, quote, this is the worst treatment of humanity that I have ever witnessed. The man was immediately taken to the hospital where he was treated for his injuries along with smoke inhalation. He was also diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and depression.
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Once the police learned about how he had been living, they decided they needed to start an investigation into Kimberly. I mean, obviously. And one of the craziest parts about this whole thing, and the main thing that had the police just completely baffled, is how did this go on for so long without anybody noticing? Well, back when the stepson was enrolled in grade school...
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people actually had been really concerned about him. Kids were telling their parents about how skinny he was, how hungry he was, all of those things. So a welfare check was actually performed in 2005. But apparently, nothing came out of that welfare check.
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Then, after that, in what I would imagine is a panic, his family claimed that the welfare check was harassment, and that the authorities had no right to report them to the state welfare office. So the welfare officers said that they then went to the home, they talked to everybody there, and they said that there was no cause for concern.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
and literally as she had her phone in her hand as she was like this doing selfies walking through Tokyo she was attacked and she was stabbed over 30 times and it was all caught on live stream so we're going to be talking about not only what happened in that case but also the motive behind it and what really was found out after they figured out the connection between her and this man
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After that, the family never spoke to the police, they never had any run-ins with child welfare, nothing happened ever again. Family members also said that Kimberly had isolated her family from everybody else, and they remember thinking that her stepson was very, very skinny, but they didn't see him or the family ever often enough to realize the extent of what was truly going on.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
The boy's biological mother was also said to never be a part of his life. His biological father, who allegedly also was involved in this abuse, he died last year. And after he passed away, the abuse from Kimberly and the confinement allegedly only got worse. So after roughly a month of investigating, Kimberly was finally arrested on March 12th.
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She was charged with assault, kidnapping, unlawful restraint, cruelty to persons, and reckless endangerment. She was being held on a $300,000 bond, which, get this, she posted the next day. And I have to say, that's kind of crazy because she allegedly held this person captive for 20 years, but she wasn't even held in custody for a week?
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Why did they allow her to even have that kind of bond amount? Like, it just makes no sense. Because now it's like, obviously, she's a flight risk, right? I mean, and I get it, you don't have to post the full amount, but you post 10%. So even at 300,000, she had to come up with 30 grand cash. That's enough to try to get a head start and flee, in my opinion.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So I'll never understand it in cases like this. Anytime there is some sort of
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harm and physical harm or sexual harm inflicted and I'm not saying there was sexual harm but like you know what I mean like anything involving a child I think at that point it's like bail bond off the table you are remanded and I know that's where it gets sticky because it's innocent until proven guilty but like I don't know err on the side of caution right who's gonna you got to protect the kid now even though they're an adult
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, as you can imagine, Kimberly and her lawyer are denying all of these charges. They're saying the entire thing is untrue. Kimberly says she's actually shocked to hear about what she's being accused of. And her lawyer said that he looks forward to showing just how false this entire thing is, showing everybody that Kimberly is innocent.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, look, I don't know how somebody can be shocked by these accusations. Clearly, you knew your stepson was upstairs. Clearly you knew what you were feeding him because you were the one delivering the food. Clearly you knew that there was an external lock on the door. So shocked by the accusations? I mean, get a grip.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
It also has been said that she blamed the biological father saying that he was the one who inflicted all this and she just went along with it because she was so scared. Um, okay, maybe that argument holds a little bit of water. But here's the problem. He died a year ago. He died a year ago. So what's your excuse for the rest of the year? Like, it makes no sense.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, as for the stepson, he's currently on the road to healing. But, I mean, honestly, I can't even imagine what he's going through. He was held captive for over 20 years. He was robbed of his childhood completely. He was robbed of his entire 20s. I mean, and just to the extent of what he had to endure, the filth that he had to live in, It's heartbreaking.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And get this, the police said that he set this fire knowing he could possibly die. But he wanted the chance at freedom, and he wanted it so badly that he knew that this was his only way out, even risking his own death.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
There's also some breaking news in the Kanye West and Diddy of it all, which I wasn't really sure if I was going to talk about that, to be quite honest. But you may have seen that there's been some issues with Kim getting involved now. She had trademarked Northwest's name.
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He's currently going through mental health therapy along with physical therapy, and the police have also said how they're supporting him every step of the way, even pitching in to buy him new clothes, books, whatever else helps him adjust. So this is definitely a case that I'm going to keep my eye on.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
I want to watch how this all unfolds in the courtroom and what really goes down because I'm imagining we're probably just skimming the surface right now. I would imagine this goes much, much deeper. So stay tuned for that. Now let's talk about the missing student because this is something that has been all over. Everybody's talking about it.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
As I mentioned in the beginning, people are referring to it as a very similar case to the Natalie Holloway case. And there's been new information that has come out where it does feel like maybe there was foul play involved. Sudiksha Kanaki was a 20-year-old college student who went to spring break in the Dominican Republic. And she's now been missing for about two weeks.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
She was last seen early in the morning on March 6th, and she was walking on the beach. Now, she was on vacation from the University of Pittsburgh, and she was traveling in a group of six girls. But now, the chain of events leading up to her going missing has completely hit the rumor mill.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And let me just tell you, the internet is going into a frenzy over what really happened, especially because a 22-year-old guy was the last person to ever see her alive. So according to the authorities, the night before she went missing, she was seen on security footage out drinking with friends at the local hotel bar. The hotel was the RIU Republica Hotel in Punta Cana.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And at some point during the trip, she met a 22-year-old guy named Joshua Reby. Joshua was also on spring break he was from coming from St.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Cloud State University in Minnesota and he's from Iowa so on this security footage you can kind of see them flirting they're all drinking they're all hanging out and then they're walking and he has his arm around her and it almost feels like okay maybe there was some romance going on maybe they were gonna hook up. We don't really know. So the kids keep drinking. They keep hanging out.
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And then at around 4 a.m., she ends up on the beach with just Joshua. All of the other college kids had left at this point, and I'm guessing they left because maybe the two of them wanted some alone time, you know, a little spring break fling. They're going to go to the beach, have like a romantic night, you know. You know how it is, right? You get swept up. You romanticize it.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Also, after I had put together what I wanted to talk about with that in regards to, you know, the song that's coming out or came out, I should say, there's also a new phone call between Diddy and Kanye while Diddy's been incarcerated. And I don't know.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
So all of the other students arrived back at the hotel at around 6 a.m. Now, I will just say, and this isn't to shame her friends, but one of the biggest rules, and I'm saying this as a reminder, one of the biggest rules between girlfriends is never leave your friend alone, even if you're on vacation, especially if you're on vacation.
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And especially if there's ever alcohol involved, don't ever leave them alone. And again, this isn't to shame her friends or make them feel like they did anything wrong. I just want to use it as a reminder to like, just remind everybody, you can't trust everybody out there, you know, so stick together.
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So Joshua told the police that the two of them were wading out into the water, sort of like waist deep. They were just hanging out, talking, making out a little. But then, all of a sudden, a massive wave came, and it swept the two of them out to sea. They got jumbled around in the ocean for a little while, and they both, of course, took a lot of water in.
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If you've ever been caught under a wave, you probably know what that feels like, right? It's like you're trying to catch your breath, you catch water in because you're not prepared, and you're trying to, like, get your footing. Now, Joshua was a former pool lifeguard, so he said he did his best to get himself and Sudiksha back to safety, back to land, back to the shore.
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And he said that once he got back to knee-high water, that's when he put her down and he started throwing up all of that water that he had swallowed. He told the police, then he just passed out on the beach. And when he woke up, he was actually shocked to see that she was no longer there. He said, "...the last time I saw her, I asked if she was okay. I didn't hear her answer."
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I looked around and I didn't see anyone. I thought that she grabbed her things and left. So he finally went back to the hotel, alone, at around 10 a.m. And at first, police listed Joshua as a witness, then as a person of interest, but never as a suspect.
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And even though he's not being called a suspect and there are no charges of anything against him, he was confined to his hotel room and his passport was confiscated for the investigation. His parents also said that he is fully cooperating with the police, and they want to do everything that they can do to help her family, to help the police get answers, to figure out what happened.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, the other students that were with her before she went missing have also all been questioned, but the investigators have maintained that they believe that none of them are suspects and that no foul play was truly involved. Later on, police found her clothing hanging on a beach chair, but there was still no sign of her.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now, as you can imagine, the rumor mill is running wild, and it's totally possible that foul play wasn't involved. And that's what I thought at first. I thought maybe they were drunk, she drowned, maybe he couldn't bring her back to the shore, but said he did because he didn't want to be implicated in that and thought that it would be easier for his story. I don't really know.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
The call, I have my thoughts about it, so I'm going to share it with you so you can hear it directly, and then it was just released, so I want you to hear it and then tell me what you think. We're also going to, of course, be talking about the evil stepmom, the one who allegedly kept her son captive, her stepson captive, for over 20 years.
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It could just be that this Joshua guy was the last person to have seen her alive before a tragic accident took place. But also, when you have a case like this, you know there are always going to be rumors and theories, and a lot of people online have been accusing Joshua of knowing more than he has shared.
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There also are some different versions of the story that he was telling the investigators, like how at first he told them he went back to the hotel by himself, but then he told them that he passed out on the beach. It was also reported in a Daily Mail article that he does have a girlfriend back at school.
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But I mean, that's Daily Mail, so take it with a grain of salt and do your own research before jumping to conclusions. But he's also 22 years old, so if it was an accidental drowning involving alcohol, this must be traumatic for him too. And there's bound to be some shock and play. And again, maybe they were drinking, they were...
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In the water, they were making out, and the wave hit, and then he panicked because he couldn't rescue her, but they had been drinking, and he didn't want to get in trouble. We don't really know. But his hometown released this statement about Joshua, and in this, they're showing their support for him. They say, "...the Rock Rapids community stands behind and supports Joshua and his family.
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The family moved to town in 2015, and they have been active in various school and community events and organizations. They are well known and loved." Josh has an unwavering devotion to his faith and a genuine kindness towards others. He exemplified the values of compassion, respect, and integrity that are fundamental to our church and our community.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
Now this case is just so incredibly sad because it really is every parent's worst nightmare. These kids were just on a college spring break, hoping to have fun. Everything was going fine. They were trying to have a young, wild night out drinking, watch the sun rise, maybe hook up a little bit. And everything just went completely wrong.
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253: What Truly Happened to Sudiksha Konanki, Influencer Murdered on Livestream, Diddy’s Prison Phone Call and Woman Held Stepson Captive 20 Years
And just imagine, all of a sudden, getting that phone call that your daughter is missing. It's incredibly heartbreaking. So now, after searching for the last two weeks, her parents have asked the authorities to declare their daughter as dead. On Monday, they sent a letter to the authorities in the Dominican Republic asking for, quote, a declaration of death.
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They also sent the request to investigators so that they would close the investigation.
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Which I don't know what you think. Do you think that's too soon? Do you think there's still hope? Do you think that they just think she probably was swept away to sea and they're ready to have closure and move on? I don't know. What do you think? In the letter, the parents acknowledge the idea that there is no foul play, and they say that they do just want closure after this entire thing.
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He was found, he's 5'9", 32 years old, and he weighed only 68 pounds. This is one of those cases where I jumped on Instagram and did like some reels about it and tried to get out as much information as possible. But since then, even more information has come to light. Information about what happened when he was at school, when he was then pulled out of school.
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And I mean, regardless of anything, I just cannot imagine being in this situation at all. Her friends, her family, everybody, they must just be so shocked and devastated and heartbroken. Also, I think it's possible that the parents could know more information than what's been released to the public right now.
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And maybe that's why they're asking for this declaration and for the closure of the investigation. Hopefully, you know, in an effort to kind of quiet down the rumor mill and all the online conversation and chatter. So we don't really know. But we, of course, will continue to watch this and see what happens.
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so that's what we've got this week for headline highlights as a reminder too guys if you missed the monday episode it's a long one it's almost two hours and you may have seen the viral tick tock a few weeks back about this young woman fallon sharing her story about how her mother's stalker broke into their family's home held her hostage her brother hostage her mother hostage her father hostage and then ultimately killed both of her parents in front of her and her siblings
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and they called the police. The dispatcher fell back asleep, and they never came. So she was in this house with the stalker, with then her deceased parents, for hours with her younger brother, and she was only nine years old when this happened.
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Unfortunately, after all of this, both of her brothers suffered from very traumatic PTSD, from just horrific things in their own lives, and they both ended up taking their own lives.
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So it's a very powerful story, and she goes into detail about that night, what happened when he broke in, when they were held in the basement, how at one point the stalker looked at her mother and said, you have to choose who I'm going to kill first, your daughter or your son. It's just a very heartbreaking story.
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And so when I had seen that TikTok of her sharing this, I reached out and offered support, asked her if she wanted to share her story in a more deep dive of a way. And so we flew her out from Canada and she joined me in studio. And so that episode is out now. It was just released this last Monday. But I want to warn you, it is definitely a difficult listen.
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It is very emotionally charged and graphic. So just be warned. And as a reminder, if you need even more content to binge going into your weekend, we put out extra episodes every single Friday on Patreon and on Apple Podcasts. So you can get access either on patreon.com slash Annie Elise or directly through the podcast app on Apple.
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And we right now have a library of upwards of maybe 80 episodes, and there are many deep dives into cases. It's an extra episode, completely ad-free too, so you don't have to like get interrupted.
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And this week we actually talk about this very disturbing story of a kidnapper who would constantly torture these women, who would assault these women, and then this one woman who was held in his garage, or his friend's garage I should say, and and thought that she was going to die, but she escaped. And you might remember even seeing that footage when this case broke.
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So we talk all about this case, and it does not end how you might think. So that comes out this Friday. Other than that, we have a whole library of things. And again, you can get access over on Apple or Patreon. And I think right now over on Apple, we actually gave a massive discount for the annual subscription to this. I think it's like 40% off, maybe even the monthly too.
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some CPS investigations, the welfare checks, different things he had to do for survival while he was locked away. So we're going to go into all of the details that we have learned now in that case.
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So that's only lasting until what? for another week, I believe. So now would be the time to go and activate it. So you can also do a free trial. So go check that out and see if it's for you. And other than that, I will be back with you on Monday with an all new deep dive. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in with me today.
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If you guys are coming tonight, as a reminder, come to the screening event, the movie tonight, it's free. The link will be in the description. It's Nicole Kidman's new movie. So all my Orange County local fam, and I will see you there, but it's first come first serve. So link in the description.
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Alright guys, thanks again and until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, and just stay safe. Alright, bye.
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And then, of course, I want to talk to you about the missing student, the missing student from the University of Pittsburgh, because, as you know, she went missing in the Dominican Republic, and this case... Everybody is referring to it as Natalie Holloway 2.0, and for those of you who are my younger listeners, that might not ring a bell or strike a chord, but there are a lot of comparisons.
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And I will be honest, at first glance, about a week or so ago when I had heard about this case and was following it, I was under the impression that because it was, you know, the middle of the night, they were all drinking, they went to the beach. The clothing was left there on the lounger and his were too.
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I was like, maybe they just were drunk and went swimming and she drowned and he came out and then he panicked and something like that. But now it's way different. They've actually, they're naming suspects that they're talking to. They are holding passports back and it looks like there is something more at play here. So I want to go through all of those new updates too.
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But that was a really long-winded intro. I apologize for that. I'm trying to take things slow. I just had like a massive sneezing attack before I pressed record where it was one of those things where I like ate sneezes in a row. So I'm like trying not to trigger anything in my nostrils here to where I'm going to start sneezing, which sounds so dumb. I know.
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But I'm like, if I just take it slow and I don't talk super fast, maybe I won't have another sneezing attack. And... Whatever, I'll shut up now, and let's just get into this first case, okay? So we're gonna start with the New York case, because if you remember, three months ago, a woman was set on fire in a New York City subway.
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She was sleeping, and this random sicko just came and lit her on fire. Then he just watched as she burned to death. It was so sad, so morbid, so disgusting, and... Now, another person has been set on fire in New York City. This time, it was in the middle of Times Square, which is like the Mecca. You know where Times Square is, right? It's where the ball drops.
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It's where it's so busy, all the lights, all the action, the big tourist spot, which, what is wrong with people, right? Now, it happened on Monday, and it was just before 4 a.m., So police say that they, quote, came across a 45-year-old man who had been lit on fire. The attacker, though, is still unidentified.
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But apparently, he lit this guy on fire, fled, and then he managed to, like, duck away into a nightclub somewhere. Now, the man who was attacked and set on fire reportedly ran about 100 feet all while he was on fire. Then someone finally approached him, used a fire extinguisher on him, and put the fire out. Which, can you just imagine that for a moment?
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You're a police officer, you're walking your early morning beat through Times Square, just trying to get ready, get started for the day. But then, out of the corner of your eye, you literally see somebody running through Times Square on fire. So this victim was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance, and thankfully, the doctors were able to perform miracles on him, and he's now in stable condition.
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And even though the attacker has not been publicly identified, police say that the two of them could have known each other. Because get this, witnesses said that the two of them had spoken at a food cart a little bit before this attack took place. Which you know the food carts in New York, even if you haven't been there, I'm sure you've seen it in the movies.
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It's like the little kebab places or the little hot dog carts, they're right all over the sidewalks in the city. Well, something must have gone very wrong during this conversation with them. Because a little while later, that's when the attacker took something off of the food truck, maybe gasoline, lighter fluid, something like that, I don't know.
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But that's what he used to set the 45-year-old man on fire. The attack also happened just hours before the New York City half marathon was starting. So what's interesting about that is a lot of people were already out really early that morning. They were enjoying themselves.
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The early morning, getting their coffee, reserving their spots on the track of where people run through the city and pass through, which if you've never been to the marathon in New York City, guys, I highly recommend it as a bucket list item. Maybe the half marathon, sure, but I'm talking the full marathon that happens in the fall. It is something I'm not into running. My husband obviously is.
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I have something for you to do tonight if you're looking to like, you know, do something after work or hang out. But basically I've partnered up with Amazon Prime and I'm going to be hosting a screening of Nicole Kidman's new movie Holland at the lot in Newport Beach. And I'm really excited. Tickets are totally free, but of course it's first come, first serve.
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He's somebody who runs these marathons. Me, literally the only marathons I do are Bravo marathons. on TV. But it is such an amazing experience because there's no energy like New York. And I'm not saying that to be like, you know, some stuck up former New Yorker. There really is just a different kind of energy there. And on marathon day, it's just, it's almost indescribable.
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It's like the energy, everybody coming together, everybody supporting runners they don't even know, supporting each other, making signs for the runners, even if they don't personally know somebody in the marathon. And I've never been to Boston Marathon or like
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other majors like that but I would imagine it's a similar vibe and I know I'm getting a little sidetracked here but I just wanted to mention this because there's something about the community and the energy on marathon days and my point in saying that is that this was the half marathon day it was starting so people were already out they were reserving their spots along the road getting their early morning coffee or if you're like me maybe it's a mimosa on marathon day and you
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getting ready. So it's not like it was just, you know, the dead of the night and nobody was around and this person didn't think that anybody was going to be coming around, right? So it was something that definitely shocked everybody.
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There was also a video released of the attack, and in this video, you can see this man with just horrific burns all over his face and body. He's standing shirtless, wrapped in this blue blanket, while he's also being loaded into the ambulance. And Look, you can look up the video online, but PSA, FYI, trigger warning, all the things, the injuries are pretty difficult to look at.
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They're very intense. Now, the investigation is still ongoing, so there are, of course, still a lot of unanswered questions. But my biggest question is, how did these guys know each other? Did they really know each other before they ever even interacted at this food cart with one another?
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Or was it just one of them who pissed the other one off in like some random chance encounter and then it escalated as badly as it did? I don't know. I just don't understand what's wrong with people because how can you just decide to light somebody on fire and in the middle of a public area? Not that it would be okay in private, but you get what I mean.
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I mean, no matter how much somebody pisses you off, you have to be not in the right state of mind to do something like that to somebody. So the police are still trying to comb through all of the security cameras and talk with all of the witnesses trying to find this attacker who maybe they're onto it and they just haven't vocalized it yet, but they haven't publicly been identified.
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But I don't know. What is up with people lighting people on fire? It is just freaking crazy. Now let's go into the new Diddy, Kanye, Kim Kardashian news. And I promise you it will be very, very brief. But not only do I want to talk to you about this song and this trademark issue, but I also want to play for you this new prison call from Diddy and Kanye West. Because, like, I don't know.
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I will put the link if you do want to go and claim some tickets in the description of this podcast episode. But I'm really excited.
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I feel like Diddy... I have my thoughts about him, and I get it. It's all alleged at this point, but I also feel like he's got to get a grip on reality and what the reality of the situation is, but we'll get to that in a second, and I will play that audio for you.
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And I know a lot of you guys might be sick of the Diddy rabbit hole, but this new update does have kind of a weird twist, so I just want to touch on it very quickly. So Kanye West released a new song over the weekend, and it's actually turning into a little bit of a scandal, because here's why.
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The new song is called Lonely Roads Still Go to Sunshine, and the song features not only Diddy, but also Kanye and Kim Kardashian's daughter, North West. Now, North is only 11 years old, so Kim kind of sprung into action and told Kanye she didn't want North to be dragged into any of this mess, which, what kind of mother would, right?
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She even had previously tried to trademark North's name and sent a cease and desist letter to halt this entire song's release. She's like, I don't want my daughter in this. I've trademarked her name. You can't use her name either. Whether you're going to agree with me as a parent or not about having her involved in this,
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The movie doesn't release to the public for about another week and a half, so they've allowed us to rent out the theater there, which the lot is a really cool movie theater in Newport Beach where you can order food, drinks, all of that, but they allowed us to rent the theater out. and I'll be hosting it. And so you guys can come check out Nicole Kidman's new movie, hang out with me.
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legally you can't do it because i trademarked her name and then it got messy because as you know anything pretty much with kanye west these days gets super toxic and super messy so along with the release of the song on x or twitter kanye also posted screenshots of text messages between him and kim the screenshots basically say that kim was trademarking north's name so that he couldn't release the song but then kanye was telling her that if she didn't get rid of the trademark
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He would, quote, go to war. Now, the biggest thing in all of this that Kim wants is for North to just be separated and not involved with all of Kanye's, you know, questionable behavior over the last few months. I mean, for example, when he went on that anti-Semitic rant, then sold t-shirts with swastikas on them.
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Also showing up to the Oscars red carpet, uninvited, and then making his wife strip down naked in front of the cameras. Just some weird, odd behavior. Kanye also went on a social media rant about how Diddy should be released. So I can definitely imagine, mother to mother, just human being to human being, why Kim wouldn't want their 11-year-old daughter associated with all of this, right?
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Now, in other news, sidestepping that, which this is what I wanted to add in, The Shade Room also just dropped some newly obtained audio of Diddy talking to Kanye West, pushing him to get back on the stage and quote, tear down the stadiums.
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Diddy says to Kanye quote, When I get out and I get that fucking freedom, I'm not caring about anything but motherfucking being happy, and I want you to feel that. Now, as we know, he's facing a minimum of 15 years in prison, but he doesn't hold back as he's talking to Kanye. This call goes on for about five minutes. He even says, "...they're definitely trying to end us.
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I'm gonna beat this shit and get next to you." He also talks about what his time has been like since being behind bars, saying, "...it's like being left for dead, and only one person coming to do anything to get you. That's the level of appreciation that I have for you." So I'm going to play the full phone call here for you so that you can get the context, the tone of voice, all of those things.
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But there was other, this one other part, like at the start of the call that kind of gave me pause. And it's probably me just being paranoid and looking into it. But he talks about like how, Diddy talks to Kanye about how he like needs Kanye on the outside still. Like, I need you still on the outside. Almost like he's his soldier in a weird way.
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And again, that could be me way reading into things, but take a listen for yourself. Okay.
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So we will definitely be keeping an eye on Lindsay. We'll see if she follows her bond conditions this time. We'll see what happens. But if you want to go back and re-review the deep dive of this case, I will link it in the show notes for you too.
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So let's talk about the Jay-Z and the Diddy lawsuit and the update that is coming out of this case because it feels like every time we turn around, there is another situation here, right?
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I mean, the Diddy and Jay-Z rabbit hole just continues on, but this new update is a bit of a shock, because if you remember, Jay-Z and Diddy were facing a lawsuit for the alleged rape of a 13-year-old girl from back in the year 2000. However, the attorney who was representing this girl just dismissed this lawsuit last Friday.
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Now, if you don't remember, or maybe if you missed an episode where we talked about this, the 13-year-old girl was attending the MTV Video Music Awards in New York City, at Radio City to be exact. Then apparently as she was exiting, she was trying to get invited to an after party. And one of Diddy's limo drivers kind of scooped her up and decided, you know, you'd be great.
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We should take you to the after party. They would love to have you. So she alleged that at this after party, Jay-Z and Diddy allegedly drugged her drink. Then after that, they raped her, all while a third female celebrity was inside the room watching the entire assault go down. Through this entire lawsuit, the woman has remained anonymous.
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But on Friday, the lawyer said that the lawsuit was voluntarily dismissed with prejudice. And since it was dismissed with prejudice, it means that this suit cannot be refiled and that this anonymous woman cannot sue again.
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It wasn't explicitly said why the lawsuit was dismissed, but I would imagine that it has something to do with a report by NBC where they were talking about the inconsistencies with her story. They wrote that the woman had said that her father picked her up after the assault, but then her father said that he doesn't remember even doing that.
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Then the woman said that she spoke to a certain musician at the party. However, the musician was apparently on tour, not even in New York City at the time of the party. Which I will say, her lawyers argued that victims of sexual assault can lose memories or even have some different time lapses within their memory, which is entirely true.
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Now, some people call him Josef. It's Joseph Fritzl. He was the guy you probably are familiar... There was a movie based off him. He locked his daughter in a basement for over two decades, had multiple children with her. There was a movie made off of this case. It was called Girl in the Basement. And he actually might be getting released from prison. It is unbelievable.
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But Jay-Z's lawyers tried to use these inconsistencies in her story to throw out the lawsuit entirely last month. Which I have to say, whether this was true, whether it was fabricated, whatever the reason is, it is a true statement that victims block trauma out, that their memory may not be exact, that they might have time lapses, and taking into consideration that this was 25 years ago.
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and that the girl was only 13 years old at the time. I understand it's a big life event, allegedly, but also I think it certainly is possible that she doesn't remember all of the details exactly as they happened, not only because of the time that has passed, but her age, and again, the trauma and fight-or-flight mode that your body goes into to block that out and suppress those memories.
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But what do I know? So Jay-Z's attorney further said that the case was dismissed without any settlement or any payment, and he called the allegations false and malicious. Jay-Z's company, Roc Nation, also issued a statement saying that this is a victory. He also said that this issue caused a lot of trauma for Jay-Z, his wife, and his children.
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And I just read too that Jay-Z is actually suing the lawyer, Busby, the one who's been responsible and behind all of these lawsuits for all these Jane Doe's
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and all these victims, that he is suing him for $100 million, claiming that this has not only created such distress for his family, but even has put his life in jeopardy because he claimed that when he went to the Lion King premiere for Blue Ivy's debut, that somebody apparently held him at gunpoint and was threatening his life. I hadn't heard of that. I'm not saying it's not true.
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I just hadn't ever heard of that. I didn't see it in the news. It very well could have happened. I don't follow Lion King news or Premier News or Jay-Z news that much. But he's saying that because of this, he's suing for $100 million because not only, again, was there distress, but he put his life in jeopardy.
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So this whole lawsuit being dropped definitely came as a bit of a shock to everybody, especially the fact that it got tossed out and the girl might not ever see justice now, if that was in fact true. But I will say that although Jay-Z's lawsuit got thrown out, Diddy is still facing dozens and dozens of lawsuits, some that do not seem to be going away anytime soon.
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So with this case being thrown out, Diddy's lawyers are now trying to, of course, use that as leverage, saying, oh, well, yeah, all All the allegations against him are just based on lies just like this one, which I don't know. I'm of the mentality of where there's smoke, there's fire. I think there is a lot of suggested proof indicating that this Diddy thing goes way deep.
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But of course, they're using this as like they're going to use anything they possibly can, right? And they're saying, just like this example, all these other ones are fabricated too. We want all these thrown out, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. In the meantime, Diddy has been locked up in Brooklyn since September 2024, and he's facing racketeering and sex trafficking charges.
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He's been denied bail three times now, too, so he is definitely staying behind bars for now. Now, his trial is set for May 5, 2025, which I can't even believe that it is coming up that quickly. Yet we're not even gonna, we haven't seen Brian Koberger in court for years, right? I don't know. Not that they're the same, obviously, but like this is so fast.
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Now he could be looking at a life sentence if he ends up being convicted. So I'm gonna follow this closely. I will keep you updated and I will follow that trial literally like glue. Now, before we get into this honeymoon murder and this guy trying to flee in the most dumb way I've ever heard, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns.
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So we're going to talk about that case too. Another case that we have talked about briefly, but don't worry, I'll give you the recap.
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Acorns lets you get started with the spare money that you have right now, even if all you have is spare change. And you don't need a ton of time either. You can create your Acorns account and start investing in literally just five minutes. It is so easy. Acorns gives you these small, simple steps to get you and your money on track.
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And it doesn't need to feel overwhelming or like financial wellness is impossible. They make it so, so simple. Basically, Acorns does the hard part so that you can give your money a chance to grow. I am not financially savvy in the least. I always try to be. I read the books. I've listened to the podcast. I try to like figure out how to invest, how to do things like that.
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is Lindsay Shiver it looks like she is going to possibly be released and have given another chance on bail even though in my opinion she screwed up her last chance so badly because they told her not to go on a press tour she went on Good Morning America out of all things so then she was thrown right back in jail in the Bahamas but now it looks like she might be released soon
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But I'll be honest, it always goes over my head. So this has been something that has just changed my experience tremendously because like I said, they do the hard part for you. You don't even have to be super savvy and knowledgeable like I thought you did. So sign up now and join the over 13 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns.
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Head to acorns.com slash AE or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier 1 compensated provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash AE. All right, guys, let's be real.
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How many times have you put on shapewear and immediately regretted it? I mean, not only because it's sometimes it's like impossible to breathe. You have like the squeezing, the rolling down, the absolute panic and struggle to go to the bathroom. I mean, that is my experience every single time. And I'm just going to say I use a household name.
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It rhymes with thanks, but you get where I'm going with that. And then I started seeing honey love all over my TikTok. And I think I've told you already, I switched my bras to Honeylove and they are just like so comfortable. I can't even believe it took me so long. I left my VS days behind me.
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So then when I heard that they had shapewear too, I was like, wait, they've already changed the game with me with my bras. Like I need to try their shapewear because it's so uncomfortable all the time. And I'm not even kidding when I say this has changed the game. I first wore Honeylove for a Spotify event that I went to and I was shocked at just truly how comfortable it was.
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Their superpower short has this amazing targeted compression that just smooths everything out exactly where you want it to be smooth. But it's not, you know, the stiff, can't breathe kind of shapewear. It moves with you. And the flexible boning means that it stays in place. There's no awkward readjusting and pulling and twisting needed. Plus, it's actually cute.
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It's kind of like lingerie inspired. It's like little details that you would want to show off. And for all my ladies listening, you can actually pee in this without a full-blown costume change. It is just... Chefs kiss the best.
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So treat yourself to the most comfortable shapewear on earth and save 20% off site wide at honeylove.com slash AE and use our exclusive link to get 20% off at honeylove.com slash AE. After you purchase, they'll probably ask you to where you heard about them. So please support our show. Tell them that we sent you, but treat yourself to Honeylove because you deserve it.
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Okay, guys, so I'm going to just give you a quick update on Megan Boswell, who was found guilty, the sentencing, all that. And then we're going to talk all about this honeymoon Fiji murder. So the heinous case of Megan Boswell is finally coming to a close. Last week, Megan's trial wrapped up. And not only was she found guilty on all charges, but she was also sentenced to life in prison.
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So last week, I did a little bit of a recap and update about what was going on with her trial. So if you want to check that out, you definitely can. But the trial lasted about a week long. The trial included hours of testimony. And the witnesses spanned from past babysitters, past foster families, friends, families, doctors, police officers, I mean, the whole nine yards.
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And it really was because they wanted to give everybody a full glimpse into who Megan was and also what her behavior was like after Evelyn was reported missing. So Megan faced a total of 19 charges. These included murder, child abuse, tampering with evidence, abuse of a corpse, false reporting, and on and on and on.
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There also has been an update in the Diddy and Jay-Z of it all. Particularly, not only has one of the lawsuits been dropped and dismissed, but there is a new lawsuit for $100 million. But it's not what you think. So we're going to go over that too. We'll talk a little bit about the Megan Boswell trial because I know I've been talking about that on the last couple of episodes.
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So last Wednesday, the lawyers gave their closing arguments, and after four hours of deliberating, the jury found her guilty on every single one of the 19 charges. And right after she was found guilty, the judge gave the jury a very short break, and then they immediately started with the sentencing portion of the trial.
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Now, the important thing to know here is that since Megan was found guilty on all of the charges, she was definitely 100% going to get life in prison. However, the sentencing trial was to see whether or not she would get life in prison without the chance of parole or life in prison with the chance of parole, specifically after serving 51 years.
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Prosecutors argued that even though Megan had a very hard life growing up, that there are tons and tons of people who grow up in bad circumstances, and of course, they don't murder their children. So they argued that she should spend the entirety of her life in prison.
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The defense, on the other hand, asked the jury to show Megan what they were calling grace and love, saying that showing compassion to Megan would allow the community to heal. The defense asked the jury to give Megan the chance of parole, too, because she needs to be shown love, that she's redeemable, that she should have a chance at life.
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Then the deputy district attorney shared his final closing statement. And he said to the jury that they should show Megan Boswell, quote, the same compassion and grace that she showed Evelyn. And he asked the jury to send her away without any chance of parole. So in the end, the jury ended up deciding to give her life in prison with the chance of parole.
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This will be after 51 years, which I got to say, I do not agree.
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She is who I deem Casey Anthony 2.0. She has officially been found guilty. She's been sentenced. So we'll touch on that a bit. And then we're going to talk about this case about a man who was convicted of killing his fiance in Fiji while the two of them were on their honeymoon. I touched on this, I believe it was like a year ago.
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So this sentencing of life in prison is just for her three first-degree murder convictions. The sentences for all the other charges, like the tampering with evidence, the abuse of a corpse, the false reporting, all of those, those will be decided on May 22nd. And then once those are figured out, it'll probably affect how the entirety of her prison sentence ends up being carried out.
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But as of right now, Megan will be put in prison for at least 51 years. And then after time is served, she will get the chance to go for parole. I'm sure that this case has taken such a toll on friends, family involved, even the community.
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And for me personally, I don't feel that 51 years is nearly enough for what she showed was her priority, and that was living a life without Evelyn, in my opinion. But I don't know. I wasn't on the jury, so... Guess she gets to be free after 51 years, which will put her somewhere around, what, 75 years old maybe? A little less? A little shy of that? I can't really do the math.
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So at least the majority of her life she'll be locked up, but in my opinion, there should be no parole offered. I don't know. Those are just my thoughts. So let's talk about this Fiji honeymoon murder because this one is absolutely crazy. Again, not only because of what happened and the course of events that took place, but then when this guy literally tried to flee.
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So I covered this case in the past. I will link it. So for those of you who are not familiar with this case, let me give you a little bit of a breakdown. Bradley and Christy got married in 2022, and Bradley was doing IT for a non-profit organization while Christy was working as a pharmacist at the time. Also, let me just add in, their romance was definitely a bit of a whirlwind one.
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They got married just three months after meeting, so things were definitely moving fast. But, you know, when you know, you know, and they were in love. So after they got married, they headed over to Fiji for their honeymoon, and they were staying in this very exclusive Turtle Island resort, which sounds and looks picture perfect.
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But it definitely was not, because two days after the newlyweds got there, their honeymoon went unbelievably south. So one night, the hotel workers heard Bradley and Christy arguing. However, they didn't think to intervene. All couples argue. There was a lot of drinking involved, things like that. However, the next morning, the couple didn't show up for breakfast or for lunch.
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And let me also just add this in. This resort that they were staying at, it only had 14 couples staying there at a time. So it was definitely very easy to notice that they had missed from breakfast, from then lunchtime. I mean, they had an accounting of all of their guests. So hotel staff decided to go and check on the couple, especially since they had heard them arguing the night before.
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Way more details have come out, and this is so bizarre to me, and I don't want to get ahead of myself, but they go on this extravagant, beautiful honeymoon in Fiji. He not only allegedly murders her, but then he tries to flee in the most ass-backwards way I've ever heard of. So we're going to jump right in to all of it.
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But there is no way that the staff members were prepared for what they were going to find. because when they went inside their room, they found the dead body of Christy, and Bradley was nowhere to be seen. Christy's body had clearly been beaten very badly, and she had horrific blunt force trauma to her head.
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In fact, her body was apparently so severely damaged that she couldn't even be embalmed to be returned to the U.S., And it was rumored that they saw a broken toilet tank lid nearby where her body was, which, you know, I'm talking about not the actual toilet seat cover, but the like big rectangular heavy piece of porcelain that goes on top of the water tank.
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Apparently, allegedly, I'm just going to throw it out there. That is what was used to inflict the blunt force trauma. Took that lid off and just bashed her in the head with it, which you can imagine how forceful that is, right? So they find her body. And then, of course, the question is, OK, well, where's her husband? Where's the newlywed? Where's Bradley after all of this?
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And get this, he actually stole a kayak and then fled to a nearby island after the murder. He ended up being found about 36 hours after Christy's body was discovered. The police said that when he was found, he had blood on him, he had his passport, he had some other things with him, and it clearly just indicated that he was trying to flee.
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And again, in this deep dive that I talked about, there were other things, how people on that island mentioned how he was acting, what he was saying to them. and it's believed that he was 100% trying to get away from all of this. So Bradley was arrested, but then he pleaded not guilty to the charges, and his lawyer said that the prosecutors didn't have sufficient evidence to convict him.
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Bradley's lawyers argued that Bradley did not have any physical injuries, so because of that, how could he have been involved in a fight? And they also argued that he left a lot of his belongings behind at that hotel, so there's no way that he could have been trying to flee Fiji. which I don't really know about that. I think that you just take what you need, like a passport, right?
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I think there was also, and I have to go back and double check, he was very drunk when they found him. And I think that was the initial excuse too, is I'm drunk, I'm blacked out, I didn't even know what I was doing. But obviously you're not going to take a suitcase with you on a kayak if you're trying to flee. You would take what you need to flee, a passport, some money, things like that.
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So even though the defense was fighting this, the judge said that he was satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that Bradley committed this crime. So Bradley's trial lasted eight days, and he was convicted in December of 2024. But then, last Tuesday, he was sentenced to life in prison. So Bradley will have to serve 18 years in prison before he can even be considered for a pardon.
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And he's going to serve this sentence in Fiji, which can you imagine? I mean, first of all, I think this guy deserves to rot. He manipulated her. He abused her. It is a horrific crime. And then he fled. But also, I wish it was life in prison without parole. But what I will say, he does give me, you know, a glimmer of happiness that he's being held in Fiji.
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Because you're not going to have a revolving door of friends and family coming and visiting you all the way over there. Maybe a few from time to time, but certainly not the amount you would have if you were in your hometown, which he's from Tennessee. So imagine if he was in prison in Tennessee, he would have visitors more frequently. He'd actually have some semblance of a life.
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Let's start with this doctor who allegedly has killed 10 people and then tried to cover his tracks by setting fire to all of the residences. So this case actually sounds like it's right out of an episode of Criminal Minds or, I don't know, NCIS or any one of those shows because it truly is wild. But a German doctor who works in Berlin has now been charged with killing 10 of his patients.
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there it's my opinion he really won't except unless people want to like piggyback a vacation on it but then it's like what are you gonna do go visit him in prison and like brag about how you're on like a Fiji vacation and going to the beach maybe I don't know maybe I should do that um maybe I should go brag to him but anyway um yeah I'm just glad that he is away from kind of stripped of any visitors and really stripped of any life because that's what he deserves he took hers he shouldn't have one not eye for an eye but maybe I don't know I'm going off on a tangent I need to reel it in
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All right, guys. Thanks for tuning in with me today for another episode of Headline Highlights. I appreciate you being here. I will be back with you on the mic first thing Monday. All new Deep Dive Into a Case. It is one that is wild and is going to truly blow your mind. It's one that a lot of you guys have been requesting and we have got a lot to talk about. So I will talk with you very soon.
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Until then, stay safe, be nice, don't kill people, and just be a good human. All right. Bye, guys.
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And in half of those cases, like I said, he allegedly tried to start fires to cover up the murders. So this doctor, whose identity hasn't yet been released, first got charged back in August. And this was because the police suspected him of killing four elderly patients. All of them were between 72 and 94 years of age, which we talked about elderly crime before on here, and it just
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It never ceases to amaze me because like what kind of sick person are you to then be like in a position of power like a doctor or a trusted official and then you prey on some of the most vulnerable people. It's just sick. So this doctor, he was 40 years old and he was also a part of a nursing care team.
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And he allegedly killed these four elderly patients in June and July, then tried to set their apartment on fire to cover his tracks, which he didn't really have much success with that, clearly. But then in November, the investigators started to realize the extent of just who they were dealing with, because they connected him to four more patients' deaths.
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And then, just last week, they connected him to another two. So they were able to connect him to all of those murders after going through all of the different patients' files and then cross-referencing their autopsy reports. And that's really when all of the puzzle pieces started to come together.
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And it's not exactly said how he allegedly killed every single one of these patients, but from what the police have shared, it looks like he would give these patients some sort of like lethal mix of medication or drugs. I'm not sure if he would inject them with this dosage or give it to them in pill form or maybe even like
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cough syrup form, but he would somehow give his patients this very deadly dose. Now one of the scariest and the saddest parts of this entire case is that he supposedly had no motive whatsoever for doing any of this. I mean, other than what the investigators are calling, quote, a literal lust for murder. But other than that, no motive.
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Not that we ever see a huge motive in this because a lot of the times we see caretakers, hospital staff kind of, you know, inject the insulin in the IV bags or do these things, especially with elderly patients, and they don't have a motive. It's just more of like a power trip, right? They have the power to play God and do these things.
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And apparently that's what this guy had because as they are calling it, it was a lust for murder. Now, I guess Germany has some stricter privacy laws, so his identity hasn't yet been released, but the prosecutors did say that he has not responded to the charges or made any public statements. So we'll see what happens here. Again, a huge abuse of power, in my opinion.
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It's sick when people prey on the elderly. This does enter serial killer territory, clearly, so we'll see how this all pans out. Now, this next case is the one of Joseph Fritzl. And when I tell you this case has haunted me for years, it is every person's worst nightmare.
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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I am outside of my normal studio today. I am recording in Big Bear, California, actually, because I didn't realize that it's ski week, which means my son has the week off school. So we decided come up here. Let's you know, there's a little bit of snow left from the storm from last week.
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And I feel like any of these stories that we hear about somebody being held captive in a home or in a basement and then being rescued and released are I don't know if it's just me because I cover a lot of true crime. Tell me if you do this too.
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But I swear, every time I'm driving up and down the street, whether it's my neighborhood or a neighborhood I'm not familiar with, or even on vacation, like right now, literally in the mountains, I had this thought yesterday. And I drive past these houses. I'm like, I wonder out of all of these houses, how many of them have somebody held against their will?
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And I don't know if that's, again, just my sick mind because I'm also the kind of person where if I'm in a mall or like a concert, I also think to myself, I wonder how many people attending this have killed somebody. I wonder how many people are pedophiles. Like my mind just goes there, which that can't mean I'm well.
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But anyway, this is one that has haunted me forever, for decades, because it is one of the more barbaric and gruesome ones. So get ready to just be disgusted. Now, for those of you who haven't heard of this case, let me give you a little bit of a breakdown, okay? Because Joseph Fritzl was a man who basically held his, not even basically, he did.
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He held his daughter, Elizabeth, captive in a cellar that he built beneath his home, beneath their home, their family home, and he held her there for years. While she was being held captive in that cellar, he repeatedly raped her, he fathered seven children of hers, and he had convinced everyone in her family and her friends that she had run away from home to join a cult.
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Which, it is just so disgusting. This father kept his own daughter as his personal sex slave and kept her in that cellar for 24 years. Now there's also been some confusion and some talk over the years that a lot of this stemmed from control. that he was a very controlling father. He didn't like her dating. He didn't like her going out. He just wanted complete control, yet she would disobey a lot.
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She wanted to live her life. She also fell in love and wanted to just be, you know, a typical teenage girl. And so because of that, one day he just over, not even overreacted, but it's like a fuse blew. And that's when he dragged her into his cellar of her family home beneath the home and held her there captive, fathering seven children for 24 years.
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As I mentioned, there was even a movie that was based on this case called Girl in the Basement, and it came out back in 2021. So if you want, if you're curious, you should definitely watch it. Do your own research about this guy, and you will see just how truly disgusting and absolutely vile he is.
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Now, how Elizabeth was finally able to manage escaping this 24 years of hell was because one of her daughters, who was a 19-year-old named Kirsten, she became super sick. So Joseph had put Kirsten in an ambulance so that she could go to the hospital, where the nurses and the doctors obviously became very concerned for just how bad this girl's condition was.
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All the while, Joseph pretended to not even know her, saying that he found her, that he was just playing good citizen by bringing her to the hospital, but that he didn't even know her. So because of that, the hospital started broadcasting these messages, asking the missing mother to come forward to help this girl who's at the hospital.
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So Elizabeth started begging Joseph to let her go, to let her be released from this cellar in the basement so that she could go help her daughter, which, for whatever reason, he finally agreed to it.
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So they went to the hospital, and Elizabeth started acting a little bit, not suspicious, but trying to say what was going on without saying what was going on, to give the eyes to the doctor and the hospital staff so that somebody would help her.
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And after making the police promise that she would never, ever have to lay eyes on her father again, she told the investigators and the staff everything about her 24 years as a hostage to her own father.
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We're going to attempt to go skiing today and it'll be their first time taking lessons. So fingers crossed that all goes according to plan. But if you're watching the YouTube version of this, then you see that I'm not in my normal set.
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And Joseph was 73 years old at the time, so I don't know if he was just getting weaker and didn't think that he could keep living this double life any longer and that's why he agreed to let her out, but it wasn't like he let her out and then advertised what had happened and that he was the one responsible.
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She's the one who had the bravery and really went to these people and said, "'This is my father. I've been held captive for over two decades.'" So after Elizabeth finally escaped and told everybody what had happened, Joseph was arrested and he was charged with enslavement, incest, rape, coercion, and false imprisonment of Elizabeth.
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He was also charged with murder by negligence of his infant son because one of their kids had died just days after being born. Now also, just as a side note, I have to say that all of these kids were, yes, technically his children, but also his grandchildren. Just a very gross fact in all of that. So after a four-day trial, Joseph pleaded guilty and he was sentenced to life in prison.
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A motive, though, was never given for any of the things that he did.
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243: Barbaric Fiji Honeymoon Murder, Josef Fritzl Release, Diddy Wins Lawsuit & Doctor Kills 10 Patients
So when he was sentenced to life in prison, he had a minimum of 15 years before he would become eligible for parole. And now those 15 years are up.
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Joseph's lawyers are saying that they will be submitting a parole application in the coming weeks, and they've also said that they are very confident that he will be released, possibly this year or by the next one. His lawyers say that he no longer poses a danger to society due to his age and due to how frail he is since he's now 89 years old.
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But anyway, today we are going over headline highlights and there is so much to talk about today because it is an episode that is full of not only new cases, but also a lot of updates in existing cases. I'll start off by just giving you like a little sneak preview.
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But personally, my thoughts are this guy should never see the light of day again. I don't care if, first of all, 15 years is not enough in my opinion, but also I don't care how old you are and because of your age, you're not a danger to society because you're so weak. That doesn't matter.
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The punishment for holding your own daughter captive for over two decades and for fathering children with her and instilling that trauma on her and everything she's had to endure and those kids have had to endure, that in my opinion equals you should be locked up for life. I don't care your age. I don't care how frail you are. It's not about you being a danger to society at this point.
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It's about retribution. It's about payback. It's about making sure that he is held accountable for what he did and what those horrific, vile actions were, right? It just doesn't make sense to me. How he only served 15 years or might only have served 15 years, I'll never know. I think he deserves to rot in prison forever.
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Now, as if all of this wasn't crazy enough, Joseph is so insane that he fully believes that once he is released, he will be greeted with what he is calling fanfare. He legit thinks that people will be so incredibly happy to see that he is out, that he is walking free, and that he has a chance to finish his life outside of prison, which... No. No, bro. I think it is the complete opposite.
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I think that his family, along with the majority of the public, are going to be outraged by this. Who wouldn't be? How is this guy, if he was just walking down the street, I mean, how do you justify that? How do you justify this man being released? I will keep an eye on it. I hope it doesn't go through, but... You know, we have seen crazier things happen, right?
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Now let's talk about this other case because it's a case that we have talked about on this channel. There hasn't been a resolution yet, but it is a very wild one. So I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with it. But Lindsay Shiver, the former beauty queen who was accused of hiring a hitman to kill her husband while they were on vacation, is set to return to the U.S. after being granted bail again.
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243: Barbaric Fiji Honeymoon Murder, Josef Fritzl Release, Diddy Wins Lawsuit & Doctor Kills 10 Patients
So Lindsay is a former beauty queen, and she was married to an ex-NFL player named Robert Shiver. And safe to say, their marriage was on the outs, and they were almost completely estranged at this point, but they were technically still married. So in July of 2023, Lindsay was arrested for an alleged murder-for-hire plot against Robert.
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243: Barbaric Fiji Honeymoon Murder, Josef Fritzl Release, Diddy Wins Lawsuit & Doctor Kills 10 Patients
While in the Bahamas, police ended up finding incriminating text messages between Lindsay and her alleged lover, Terrence Bethel, and also some text messages with the alleged hitman, Farron Newbold Jr. And in these text messages, they were apparently all three talking about this murder plan, how they were going to get away with it, concocting the whole plan.
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But one of these cases is about a doctor who allegedly murdered 10 of his patients, but then tried to cover up every single individual murder by setting a fire to their residence. It's very complicated, very confusing, but we're going to get into that. But honestly, like serial killer, right? We also are going to talk about an update in the infamous case of Joseph Fritzl.
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And according to the police report at the time, Lindsay admitted to sending a text message that said, kill him with a photo of her husband attached to it. Now, all three of them pleaded not guilty to these charges. So then, in December of 2023, Lindsay was actually granted bail at $100,000, and Terrence was also granted bail.
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243: Barbaric Fiji Honeymoon Murder, Josef Fritzl Release, Diddy Wins Lawsuit & Doctor Kills 10 Patients
However, with this bail, there was a certain set of conditions that Lindsay had to follow. This included going back to her home in Georgia, wearing an ankle monitor, returning to the Bahamas for all court hearings, and she had to follow a gag order, meaning she was not allowed to speak publicly about anything regarding the case. But boy, oh boy, did they screw that last one up.
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Because without getting permission from the courts, Lindsay and Terrence spoke to media outlets ad nauseum, and even gave interviews with Good Morning America, where they would just talk about the case. They would give their take, their opinion, and their point of view.
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So, I mean, because of this, obviously, the court revoked their bond, and they were re-arrested after violating the agreements back in October of 2024. But now, recently the judge has changed his mind, and he is reinstating Lindsay's bond back to what it was originally set at. So this means that she is set to be released for a second time.
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This time she'll return back home to Georgia, where she'll just wait until her trial starts. However, her trial date has also been pushed back. It was scheduled for March, but now it is set for August. So nobody really knows why the judge has changed their mind, and why they are giving Lindsay and Terrence another chance at bail. I mean, It beats me. I have no idea.
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If they talked once, I would imagine they would talk again. But Lindsay and Terrence still insist that there was never even a murder plot. They just said that Farron isn't even a hitman, that this was all a joke. She was just frustrated about her ex. So this is all pretty crazy, and it will definitely be interesting to watch this whole thing unfold.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
The one safety net people do feel comfortable with about still having their children go to public school is because they feel like the teachers can be trusted, that the children will be safe with the teachers, and that the only risk is an outside party coming in. However, look at this. This is a clear example that it's one more strike against the school system.
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And I'm not to say like, okay, homeschool all the way. Definitely not. Because again, I don't even homeschool. But it's like, what is going on here? If the children aren't safe from gun violence at school,
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if teachers are abusing them and taping them to desks if some teachers are raping them and grooming them it's like what the fuck is going on in the world sorry I wasn't able to censor myself in time that time but like what is happening and don't get me wrong there are so many good teachers out there I actually have some teachers in my family and they are just like absolutely incredible teachers and
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It takes a certain kind of individual to become a teacher. Like props to all of you. But like what is happening here? And just more even than that it's like the abuse of power in this situation. It makes me absolutely sick. You send your kids off to school hoping they're getting a good education. They're making friends. They're socializing. They're with a trusted adult who's teaching them.
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And then you find out that they taped your son by the neck to a desk for an hour. And that another adult who was a witness to this also co-signed this idea. Like what? Are you out of your freaking minds? This is insane to me. Okay, I need to chant. I need to get myself together. Sorry, guys. I'm going to grab a quick sip of water.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
We're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and talk about like the scum of the earth in America with Diddy, Jay-Z, Hannah Kobayashi in this instance as well, and then these sex trafficking brothers. So we'll be right back. Okay, have you guys heard about LAL? It stands for laser-assisted lipo, and the results are unreal.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I've been looking at some of the before and afters from Soto Bello, and these women look, like, incredible. I mean, I feel like lipo used to be such a bad word, right? Yet, we also are supposed to act like we love every part of our body all the time, which is total bull. I've had two kids, and getting your body back is definitely hard, so I totally get it.
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But I also believe that everybody deserves to feel confident in their own skin. So that's why I want to talk to you guys about Sonobello. It's honestly one of the best kept secrets among celebrities and some influencers even. So many people you have seen have had lipo, whether it's a small touch up or total makeovers.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
And here's the thing, lipo has changed and Sonobello is at the forefront with their laser assisted lipo technology. It removes stubborn fat permanently in areas like your tummy, your thighs, your arms, or even your love handles. And the best part is it's all done in one comfortable visit.
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You can keep eating healthy and working out, keep doing that for sure, but if you want to say goodbye to stubborn fat in just one visit, definitely check them out. And right now, Sonobello is offering their friends and family holiday savings event, which means you'll get the same pricing their family and friends pay. But spots are limited, so don't wait. Schedule your free consultation today.
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And with the Care credit card, you can enjoy flexible financing and convenient monthly payments, so you'll look and feel amazing before the holidays while paying later. Visit sonobello.com to schedule your free consultation now. That's sono, B-E-L-L-O dot com slash A-E. Check it out. You deserve it. Alright, attention parents and grandparents.
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So we're going to talk about all of that along with some new cases. So we're going to be here for a minute. Get comfy. All right, let's start with this case that is coming out of South Carolina. So on December 12th, My Angel Walker was reported missing after she didn't show up to work at the NHC healthcare facility.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
Are you searching for the perfect gift for your kids this holiday season? Give the gift of adventure that will last all year long. A guardian bike. The easiest, safest, and quickest bike for kids to learn on. Kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels are even needed. Now, what sets Guardian Bikes apart? It's designed especially for stability.
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They're low to the ground with a wide wheelbase and ultra-lightweight frames, offering superior control and balance. This design gives young riders the ability to learn in just one day without tears, frustration, the mess. Guardian bikes are the only kids' bikes designed and assembled in a USA factory, ensuring top-notch quality and durability.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
They were also featured on Shark Tank and are the New York Times Wirecutter Top Kids Bike Pick for 2024. So join the hundreds of thousands of happy families by getting a Guardian bike today. Their holiday sales have begun, offering the biggest deal of the year. Save up to 33% on bikes. No code needed.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
Plus, get free shipping and a free bike lock and pump with your first purchase after signing up for their newsletter. So visit GuardianBikes.com to take advantage of these deals and secure your holiday gifts today. Happy riding! All right, I've got myself collected, guys.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So let's start with the whole ditty of it all, because there have been some new ditty updates that have come out, which, I mean, when are they not coming out, right? But just to quickly touch on this, Jennifer Lopez has now been dragged into the Jay-Z part of this scandal. Now originally her name kind of came to the surface when all the Diddy stuff was first exposed right.
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People thought okay she was dating him in the 2000s she was around is that why like she broke up with him. There was also that allegation of like him making her hold a gun after the club that night and then that gun possibly being involved in a shooting all of these things. But the talk of her being involved has somewhat died down over the last several weeks right.
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But now, since this bombshell allegation about Jay-Z, her name is right back at the forefront. Because a photo recently surfaced of J-Lo the night that Diddy and Jay-Z are accused of raping that then 13-year-old girl, and she was not only dating Diddy, but she was by his side throughout the entire night.
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And just a quick recap on this night, it was the MTV Video Music Awards in New York City back in 2000, and this girl, who was just 13 years old at the time, was waiting outside a Radio City music hall to try and get into one of the after parties. She ended up being picked up by a driver who thought she would, quote, fit Diddy's type, and she was taken to the after party.
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So that's where she was allegedly drugged and then assaulted by Diddy and Jay-Z. In that lawsuit as well, as we have covered, there was a third person in that room while this assault was going on. And this third person was a woman who watched the whole thing go down. And in the lawsuit too, this 13-year-old girl, who is an adult now of course,
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
Her family and her loved ones immediately knew that something was off, and it turns out they were absolutely right. Now, My Angel is an 18-year-old girl, and her family reported her missing to the police department, saying that she was last seen in Clinton, South Carolina. Police said that once they started searching, they quickly knew that her disappearance was very suspicious.
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says that when the three of them walked in the room, she immediately recognized all of them. And she immediately recognized the woman because she's a celebrity as well. So as I said, this woman allegedly stood in the room and watched as these two men took turns on this young girl. Now this woman has not officially been named yet.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
Only under like the moniker Celebrity B, I think is the letter they gave her. So people were wondering is it Kim Porter? I think I even heard rumors that it was not Missy Elliott. Mary J. Blige. Some people are wondering Beyonce. But now people are you know doing what they do and scouring the internet. Trying to find any evidence they can to find a face that could have been there that night.
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And recently those new photos have surfaced on the internet. where J-Lo looks like she is in a very heated argument with Diddy in the middle of this party, and who knows if the photo was taken before the alleged assaults or after, I don't really know. Now J-Lo and Diddy did date for two years back in 1999 all the way to 2001, but there have been no mentions of her name in the lawsuit yet.
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I want to be crystal clear on that. There also hasn't been anything pointing to her being the woman in the room, other than her coincidentally being in a relationship with Diddy at the time, and being in this photo. However, the public naming of Jay-Z definitely brings a lot of the spotlight back to her, especially because it shows that she was in fact there that night.
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So my guess is it took a couple months for Jay-Z's name to drop in that lawsuit before it was just filed, you know, anonymously. His name wasn't mentioned. So I have a feeling that more and more names are going to start flowing out. I really do. I mean, countless members of Hollywood, I think, are probably involved in the greater scheme of this entire thing.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
But for this particular lawsuit, I think that that third name will probably come out unless it is like hush hush quietly settled, which could possibly be maybe that's a motive. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but maybe the reason they named Jay-Z in the civil suit is so that the celebrity B person would.
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settle really quickly and shut them up and make them drop it and we know JLo has freaking boatloads of money I actually do have a personal story about JLo where I've always been a big JLo fan until this story um not this one the one I'm going to tell you
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but I've heard from countless people in the industry that she is like a diva, that she is a nightmare, that she is just like thinks she's untouchable and the best of the best. And actually I have two stories for you. So yeah, little, it wasn't planned, but let me just share these two personal stories with you.
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So as you guys know, I used to work in the fashion industry in New York City for many, many years, and I was on the trend forecasting side. So we would work with designers, with buyers, all of those things. So JLo had her custom line at Kohl's at the time, if you remember that. And this story isn't, I wasn't directly involved in. So let me just clarify that right now.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I was told this by my colleague at the time who worked very closely with J-Lo. But anyway, the whole design team was putting together the capsule for J-Lo's line because, spoiler alert, anybody who's a celebrity or a socialite or anybody who has their own apparel line, they don't
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
ever do the designing themselves 99.9% of the time like Lauren Conrad JLo all of the people the way it basically works is we get in a room we design the whole line we pick the fabrics we pick the patterns all of that the colors then we go to a meeting with them we present the line and they pick and choose and cherry pick what they like and maybe a time or two they'll be like oh I really like this dress but I prefer it in this printed fabric that you brought instead and we make a swap but
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Now, in actuality, the search didn't end up even lasting very long because just one day later, my angel's body was found in a burned and charred car. She had also been killed from a gunshot wound.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
They are very, very rarely involved from, you know, on the cutting room floor, or not the cutting room floor, the design floor, whatever. So anyway, my point in saying that is that this design team put together the whole package, and they were going to present it to J-Lo so that she could pick what she wanted, right? Well, it also happened to be her birthday, so... They're in the city.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
They're putting together this whole meeting, and I can't remember the exact time, but I'm just going to say it starts at 2 p.m., or it's scheduled to start. They also research what her favorite bakery is. They wanted to bring a cake in, cupcakes, and it was a very, of course, expensive bakery.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So they get the whole team together to, like, put this amazing conference room together for her with, like, these expensive lavish cakes, like, you know, a whole birthday celebration. So J-Lo arrives not at the scheduled two o'clock start time but literally hours later. I think she was coming in from the Hamptons and she just her time was her time so she didn't really care that she was late.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So she strolls in literally multiple hours later. She doesn't look anyone in the eye. She is rude to everybody. She doesn't say thank you for the cake. They all sing happy birthday. She doesn't say like
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I mean the polite thing in that moment and something to do would be like oh like let's all dig in like you know you guys have been waiting for me like let's cut the cake like we'll go over the designs together like that's just a courteous thing to do I don't know maybe I ask a lot of people but I feel like that's how I would handle the situation she didn't do any of that she doesn't look anybody in the eye apparently and she um
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
is just rude she is short and then she doesn't touch the cupcakes doesn't touch the cake doesn't even take a bite herself and she just looks at her assistant or whoever's with her and says pack all this up for the twins they'll love it which okay I kind of get that but just very cold very rude and like There was more to the story, but anyway, you kind of get the gist of it, right?
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
Just kind of like think she's better than everyone, which maybe she has earned that right. I don't know, but I am a firm believer, especially if you are in the public eye, that you should be nothing more than courteous, like you're less than courteous. You should be overly polite, kind to everybody, because without those people, you wouldn't be where you are, period, the end.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So that was one situation. Then another situation was actually just recently. I was driving to the Spotify party. I had the guy who always helps drive us when we go to the airport or to events. He's amazing. We met him through Uber and then he started his own private business. So we work with him now to give him the business.
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But he was driving us and he had said that they had a pickup the week before and it was J-Lo. And I was like, what was that like? Was she nice? Like I've heard horror stories about her, but I used to always be such a big fan. And he's like, oh no. She was so rude.
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She, first of all, makes you turn off all, you can't have your phone on, you can't have the navigation on, you can't have the radio on, you have to have the AAC at a certain degree. She had a whole separate car just for her luggage. She gets in the car with her assistant, does not say a single word to anybody, no thank you, no this, no that, does not tip.
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at all and I believe it was like multiple hour drive because they were going somewhere far I mean again just kind of like uh it's gross like I get it you're privileged you're a celebrity you have all this money but like where do manners go you know where does being polite go so I know that that was a long-winded story and not to say that that means that she was this third person in this room that watched a sexual assault happen on a 13 year old girl but I'm just saying I don't know if she is the angel that a
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Do those two go hand in hand? No, they're obviously very stark difference, differences between the two of them, but I just wanted to, you know, whatever, throw it out there. So she hasn't made any comments at all whatsoever about anything involving Diddy or their relationship or any of the lawsuits even with just Diddy or now this Jay-Z thing and this new photo that surfaced.
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She hasn't said anything. However, Jay-Z did release a statement through Roc Nation where he called the accusations completely idiotic and, quote, heinous in nature. His lawyers also said that the victim should have to reveal her identity or the entire lawsuit should be dismissed.
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work diligently together to solve this case and bring justice for my angel walker now as for the person who did this he was identified as 19 year old malachi presley it didn't take the police very long to track this guy down either and like we see so many times in so many situations like this according to my angel's family he was none other than the on again off again boyfriend of hers
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which I don't really agree on that right now, especially when there has been so much proof and evidence of witness tampering, conspiracy, corruption, shutting people up. Like, no, I think that her identity absolutely should be protected until she's safeguarded and It either gets settled or, I don't know, the trial with Diddy happens, but, like, I don't know. I don't know what to think about it.
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Tell me what you think because I think, again, we are just, like, skimming the tip of the iceberg right now. I feel like there is a lot more to come in general. Now, let's talk, too, about an update that happened just, I think it was yesterday, actually, about the Long Island serial killer. Because the accused Gilgo Beach serial killer, Rex Heuermann, has now been charged with a seventh murder.
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He's now being charged in the death of a woman named Valerie Mack. Her remains were found 24 years ago. Now, if you're not familiar with Rex, he was a Long Island architect, and he was originally arrested in July of 2023. He's accused of being the notorious Long Island serial killer, so you definitely saw it all over the news. I also did quite a few deep dives into this case.
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I will link it in the show notes. I don't remember if I did a deep dive here on the podcast or if it was only on my YouTube channel, but either way, I will link the episodes for you. So, so far, he had been charged in the murder of six women who had all been found along Long Island. But now that count has, of course, been brought to seven.
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Now, the whole Long Island serial killer of it all has been a case that has had detectives working overtime for over a decade. Valerie's remains were found back in November of 2000, and it was a hunter's dog who found her. Her body was in a black plastic bag. She was wrapped in duct tape, and inside that bag, she was bound and tied with rope.
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Similar to his other victims, she had reportedly been working as an escort in New York City at the time of her murder. Now, originally, Valerie's entire body was not found, which I'm really sorry, but I'm going to get a little bit graphic here for a minute. But both of Valerie's hands were severed, and also one of her legs had been cut off.
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So it took another 10 whole years to find the entirety of her body. Which, that just speaks to the brutality of these murders. Like dismemberment, her binding them using duct tape, rope. And you know what? In that episode that I'm going to link, I also go through his whole journal because...
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Yes, this sick freak had a journal where he literally would write out his fantasies and what he wanted to do to these women. And he would also put together like his how to get away with murder game plan.
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He literally wrote it down and I go through it verbatim where he would say, do this so that I can have what he called quote playtime, like uninterrupted playtime, which is code for like when he's murdering them and sexually assaulting them.
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it this guy is like freaking unhinged and if you haven't seen his face yet google it because knowing the barbaric grotesque stuff that he did and then picturing his face with it it like will send a freaking chill down your spine now going back to this because I know I'm going off on a lot of tangents today guys
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hello, hello, hello! Welcome back to another episode of Headline Highlights here over on Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Now, I feel like I gotta jump right into it today, guys, because there is so much we have to talk about.
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They were able to link Rex to this murder because the investigators found female hair on Valerie's body, and the hair contained DNA that was a match to Rex's wife and his daughter. And this was just another chilling detail in all of this, because Rex's daughter would have only been three or four years old at the time.
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So, I mean, this guy was committing murders and then just going home to his wife and his toddler. It is so sick. They were also able to link Rex to Valerie through evidence on the 350 electronic devices that belonged to him that they seized. On these devices, they found a collection of, you know, horrific, violent torture porn. They found horrific photos, videos, all of it.
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And the collection dates back to 1994. And again, sorry to be very graphic. Just keep it in mind, though. but his collection included tying women up in ropes and then mutilating them. These are also, not coincidentally, the two tortures that were forced onto Valerie.
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Now, I just mentioned that, you know, to-do list, his how to get away with murder diary thing that he kept, that was created in the year 2000, which also coincidentally, or not so coincidentally, is the same year that Valerie was killed.
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So he allegedly shot my angel the night of December 11th. Then he placed her body in the car, and it's still unclear if the car was already burned or if he burned the car after putting her dead body inside. I'm going to think and just believe that it was probably after as a move to destroy evidence, but they haven't really vocalized it one way or another.
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There was also a, quote, supplies section on this document, and it listed things like rope, cord, saws, cutting tools, drain cleaner, I mean, clearly supplies to murder and torture someone. There was also a dump site section on this document, and once again, not a coincidence, a site that was listed was where Valerie's remains were found.
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So this case is just such a long and a twisted one, and I mean so many bodies of women have been found throughout this search, and he hasn't been linked to every single one of them, but he is slowly but surely being linked to some of them. And I mean it did take detectives literally over a decade to even find him, but they have linked seven to him so far.
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So I definitely will keep an eye on this trial, and I will keep you updated. Rex has pleaded not guilty to the six murders that he has so far been charged with, but I do want to just say the victims' names because they do deserve to be heard. They are Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Amber Costello, Jessica Taylor, and Sandra Castilla.
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And now he has also pleaded not guilty to the murder of Valerie Mack. Now let's talk about these real estate bros who were indicted on sex trafficking charges. Because luxury real estate brokers known as the Alexander Brothers have now been indicted on federal sex trafficking charges in New York.
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Oren and Alin are 37-year-old twin brothers, and apparently they also involved in this longtime sex trafficking scheme their older brother, 38-year-old Tal, which, I mean, talk about a family affair, right? Now, officials say that the brothers ran a sex trafficking scheme for over a decade. Allegedly, they had assaulted dozens of women during this time.
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Some of these cases show the brothers had allegations dating all the way back to when they were in high school, too, which, I don't know, that's really scary to think about. Now, Tal and Oren originally got their start in the real estate world at the firm Douglas Elliman. There, they became very well-known moguls in the real estate environment.
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They eventually went on to start their own luxury real estate firm, which they called Official Partners, all while Alon, who was one of the twins, worked for their family's private security firm. So basically, it looked like these guys, I mean, really had it all. They had money, a powerful family, a strong reputation.
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And I mean, just take a look at the kinds of places that these guys lived because all three of these brothers lived in super expensive properties in New York and in Miami. I'm talking skyscrapers in Manhattan, properties in Miami Beach with water access and private docks. I mean, they would use all of this. They would use all of this like glitz and glam to lure women in.
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Then they would promise these women all kinds of luxuries, first-class travel, exclusive events, taking them to all sorts of different locations. They would find their victims in person, on social media, even from dating apps. The brothers would allegedly message them, invite them to a party, maybe even plan a trip, and basically just lure these victims into some sort of disgusting trap.
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Then at these places, they would drug them, sexually assault them, and rape these women. They would sometimes act alone, sometimes together as brothers, or sometimes even allegedly with other men. Allegedly, they would usually drug the women so that they couldn't fight back, or they would physically restrain them and forcibly rape them.
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But Malachi has been arrested and charged with her murder. Now, in addition to Malachi, another 19-year-old was also arrested in connection. Her name is Taylor Kynard. Police say that Taylor is one who helped him get rid of the body and also helped try to cover it up.
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So these guys started assaulting women back in high school, allegedly. Then, as they've gotten older, they've clearly gotten worse. I mean, they were literally handpicking victims for these trips of theirs, and they were able to hide all behind their luxurious and successful mask to do it all.
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One victim remembers being assaulted by the brothers back in 2011 at one of their vacation homes in the Hamptons. She said that she had never met them before that night, but after she was given a glass of wine, she felt sick. She said her memory kind of got hazy after that, but she remembers Tal holding her down and also remembers another man entering the room.
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She also says that she remembers a camcorder being set up. Now, for those of you who are young, a camcorder is a video recording device, okay? Like the ones that are old school that you used to literally hold in your hand. Now, another victim talked about her assault in 2016. Oren apparently gave her a cocktail, and afterward, she felt this strange feeling. She couldn't walk.
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She felt like she couldn't talk. and Alon then took her up to a room to lay her down. The next thing that she remembers is Oren taking off her bathing suit and raping her. The whole time, she could not move, she could not speak, she could not do anything because of that drink that he had given her.
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Prosecutors also said that there was a group chat that was found involving the brothers, along with some other men, where they were planning a trip to Tulum, Mexico. In this group chat, there were messages talking about the cost of flights and also the housing for the women. Texts were also found talking about drugs, specifically drugs, quote, End quote.
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Throughout their careers, they somehow managed to always get away with these assaults. One of their victims tried to come forward, but Tal and Oren reported her for harassment. Another time, they threatened a victim with a defamation lawsuit if she didn't stop telling people that she had been sexually assaulted by them.
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They would just use their money, their power, their, you know, grandstanding to allegedly treat these women like garbage after literally assaulting them. And remember, this is all alleged, guys. They haven't been proven guilty yet, so do your own research.
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Now, an FBI agent testified that there are approximately 40 women who, for the most part, don't even know each other, but who have now made allegations against the brothers. All of their stories are similar, too, that they were lured to this luxurious vacation spot. There, they were drugged and then later raped.
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However, they haven't shared her relationship with Malachi or her relationship with My Angel, so it's all still, you know, a little bit of a mystery of how she was involved. If I had to guess, I would guess she's the new girlfriend, but take a listen.
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The agent also testified that there are photos, videos, and text messages between the brothers that prove these allegations. On Friday, the oldest brother, Tal, was denied bond, even with his family pledging $115 million in real estate holdings to try to secure his release. But the judge said no, said he's a flight risk and he's a danger to the community.
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So basically you can take your $115 million and shove it. Now as for the twins, originally a judge ordered Oren to pay a $3 million bond and Olin to pay a $2 million bond on state charges. But because of the federal charges, they weren't able to be released. So they're being held until the first federal hearing, which has not yet been set. And you know what I have to say to that? Good riddance.
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Like Sia wouldn't want to be you. You think your money can get you out of things. It clearly can't. So if they did do what they are being alleged of doing, I hope that the judge throws away the key. Now let's talk a little bit about Hannah Kobayashi because again, I did that deep dive Monday and the last thing where things stood on the weekend was
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It was that she was refusing to return to the U.S., and her family also made statements that their relationship with the Aunt Loree was fractured, saying they no longer even consider her family. However, since then, as predicted, more updates have come out. So Hannah returned to U.S. soil, and she did so via her lawyer. Her lawyer brought her back, and then she spoke with the authorities.
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But then she gave a statement. And this statement is very, very vague. I'm going to read it verbatim for you. But in it, which is what is setting a lot of people off, is that she says she wants to focus on her healing and her creating. In her statement, she says, quote, I was unaware of everything that was happening in the media while I was away. I'm still processing it all.
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My focus now is on my healing, my peace, and my creativity. I am deeply grateful to my family and to everyone who has shown me kindness and compassion during this time. Now, they still haven't released how exactly she was found. And there were, of course, a lot of conspiracy theories. But this statement has people really rubbed the wrong way.
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Not only because of the wasted resources, but also because of Hannah's poor dad who took his own life because of the grief he was feeling from her being missing. People aren't sure if this was a mental health episode, if this was something for attention, if it really was that love square conversation.
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green card scam so for her to just not give any answers or clarity and just say my focus now is on my healing my peace and my creativity like what the hell is that also her sister sydney posted on facebook this very not cryptic message but because it's pretty pointed but it doesn't say who it's pointed to a lot of people suggest that it's about hannah
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Yet, some people think it is about Aunt Loree, and I'll explain why, but especially because they have come out and said that they no longer consider her family. But in this statement, her sister Sydney says, I feel utterly deceived, betrayed, and consumed by a fury that I can hardly put into words.
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To think that someone I thought I could have trusted with my own life, someone who was supposed to be my family, my own flesh and blood, could set me up like this, orchestrating a situation that costed me somebody I loved. It's beyond devastating.
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The pain isn't just in the loss, but in the realization that the person I thought would always have my back, as I did theirs, was the one who twisted the knife. The anger I feel is overwhelming, knowing that my trust was abused in such a cruel, calculated way.
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It's hard to even look at them without feeling the weight of that betrayal, and it cuts even deeper because they knew the impact their actions would have, yet they did it anyway." So it feels like it could be targeted at Hannah. But again, some people think maybe that post was targeted at Loree because, and I'm just saying, this is all speculation. Again, do your own research.
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But some are suggesting that Loree was somehow involved in this as well, whether it was for the money from the immigration scam or, Whether it was Hannah fleeing because she wanted alone time. The allegation is that Loree knew about it. And that's why she was the first one to make contact with Hannah when Hannah was in Mexico.
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Because, you know, by extension she was a part of it and she was talking and in communication with Hannah. So I don't really know what the truth is. I don't know why else they would write off Loree. And if that statement, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe the statement is about Hannah. But we still don't have answers, right? And that is what is so crazy about this whole thing. Why did she leave?
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Why did she leave for multiple weeks? How did she not know, even if she didn't have a phone, how did she not know what was going on in the media? That her dad took his own life. Like what is the truth about the immigration scam? Her ex-boyfriend was apparently married to her new husband's girlfriend. So it wasn't a love triangle. It was like a love square, an immigration scam love square.
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I don't even know. I don't even know. And if you haven't listened to Monday's Deep Dive, I highly suggest you go back and listen because I break all of it down. Like the weird relationships, the inner workings, it is bizarre. So I don't know what the truth is. I am like so sick of talking about this because I just feel like this woman wasted so many resources.
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I mean, if something else comes out and if she was, I don't want to like doubt anything, but there isn't any indication or statement that there was foul play involved. So I don't even know. Like, What the freak is happening right now? Let me know what you guys think. I am very curious to know. That's all I got today for headline highlights. I know it was a doozy, but we had a lot to talk about.
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So thank you for tuning in. And as a reminder, if you need more content to binge going into this holiday break, Every Friday, I do release the ad-free bonus episodes. You can get access to those either on Patreon, patreon.com slash Annie Elise, or directly through Apple Podcasts.
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And when you sign up right now, you'll unlock almost 70 bonus episodes, and then a new one comes out every single Friday. Again, all ad-free. So you can check that out. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. I will be back on the mic with you first thing Monday morning, an all new deep dive into a case that is actually very recent and going on as we speak. So come back for that.
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And please just stay safe. Take care of yourself. Don't join any cults. Don't kill anybody. Just be a good human. All right. All right. Thanks for dealing with all my rants today. All right. Bye, guys.
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Both Malachi and Taylor were denied bond, and they're being held at a detention center in South Carolina. Malachi's next hearing is currently set for January 31st. So the investigation is ongoing, but there are, of course, a lot of unanswered questions.
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Like, number one, the main one, what on earth led Malachi to hunting my angel down and then shooting her, murdering her, putting her in a car, and burning the car? And also, who is this Taylor girl? Why would she help him try to cover it all up? I get it. Maybe they're young. She's the new girlfriend. She's trying to protect him.
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Kind of also gives me vibes of what is that case that we talked about in 2020? Vanessa Guillen. Remember the Vanessa Guillen case in Fort Hood, Texas? And the guy killed her, put her in the Pelican case, and then his girlfriend Cecily or Cecilia, I think it was Cecily,
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helped him dismember and burn and dispose of the evidence because it's like people think i'm gonna you know we're gonna be bonnie and clyde and i'm gonna help you cover up this murder it is just so so deranged now speaking of my angel she had just recently graduated from high school she also had dreams of becoming a nurse she was from a very close-knit family she was the oldest of two siblings and according to everybody who knew her she was a very smart very bright driven young woman
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She also had, of course, a very big heart, and that's what drove her to want to get into nursing. So while the murderers have, yes, been arrested, my angel's mother said that there's absolutely nothing that could make up for what was taken from her family. She said, quote, It's my brother, my sister. Her father figured. It's everybody around me that's affected. So...
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
She also went on to warn people to please be careful about who they surround themselves with. She urges people to be careful and that if they're experiencing anything wrong or domestic violence or anything like that, to just get out as soon as you can. Seek help. Try to confide in someone. Tell someone. I mean, none of this should have ever happened.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
First of all, if you didn't hear the deep dive that I put out on Monday, it's all about the Hannah Kobayashi case. It was pretty wild. I mean, we went through, of course, all the details, the theories, all the way up through this weekend where now her family members have fractured with the Aunt Loree. They're saying they no longer even consider her family.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
She had her entire life ahead of her, so hopefully the system brings answers and also brings justice for my angel and accountability for these two monsters. Now, speaking of monster, we got to talk about this case that literally just came across my desk yesterday, and it is absolutely heinous.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
A 16-year-old boy in New Mexico allegedly killed his parents and his siblings, and then he called 911 on himself, which... We hear a lot about familicide lately, right? And we've actually, I feel like we've been talking a lot lately about children who are the ones who are family annihilators, killing their whole family. But very rarely do we hear that they call 911 on themselves.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So this all happened this past Saturday. At around 3.30 in the morning, Diego Leyva called the police and confessed to the dispatcher who answered that he had killed his entire family. Now, I know that 911 dispatchers definitely get some crazy calls and some out there calls, but imagine getting that phone call from a teenager just admitting to killing his entire family. I mean, it's truly insane.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So police reported to the home in Bellin, which is just south of Albuquerque, and said that when they got to the house, Diego just walked out of the house with his hands right there in the air and surrendered to the police without fighting at all. He also appeared to be heavily, heavily intoxicated. Like, this kid was very, very drunk.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
When the investigators went inside the house, they found two adults and two teenagers dead. There was his father, Leonardo, his mother, Adriana, and his siblings, Adrian and Alexander. It was just a very sad and very, very violent scene. It looked like they had all died from gunshot wounds, and the police ended up finding a handgun right there on the kitchen table.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So the authorities took Diego to the hospital so they could detox him from all of this alcohol and get some answers, and it turns out he had to stay there for quite a while. After that, he was booked into the Juvenile Justice Center in Albuquerque on Sunday. And really quickly, I want to just like take a pause because I'm so taken aback by how this could even happen. I mean...
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
This kid was very clearly drunk. He also had access to a gun inside his house. But what could possibly lead someone, no matter how drunk you are, to kill your entire family, to shoot your parents and your siblings? I mean, maybe he hadn't even realized what had fully happened until he was completely sobered up, although I would imagine he had to know something in order to call 911.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I would really like to know what that 911 audio sounds like. Was he sounding frantic? Was he sounding cool, calm, and collected? The fact that he was able to call and confess to murder, yet he was so intoxicated, it's just crazy and incredibly, incredibly sad. The investigation is still ongoing, but the entire motive for this quadruple murder is completely unknown.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
One of Diego's former teachers did come forward, and they described this to be just completely out of character for him, which I'm sure everybody in the community is in complete shock, but... I don't know, like, were there any precursors? What could just motivate a drunk teenager to do something like this? I really do wonder what the exact chain of events was leading up to the murder.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
They also were saying that Hannah was refusing to leave Mexico. But now Hannah has spoken out. She has given her first official statement via her lawyer. She also is back on U.S. soil. And we got to talk about that because it's pretty wild. A lot of people, understandably, are very frustrated by what went down with that situation. So we're going to talk about all of that.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I mean, was he drinking maybe in secret and then got caught and decided to retaliate on his parents and then felt like he had no choice but to kill his family? I don't, that sounds even so crazy just saying it out loud.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
But the whole case is incredibly sad because it's another kid killing family members, just like the one we talked about recently with the 15-year-old boy who killed his entire family, except for his one sister who got away, and he tried to blame it on the brother who he also killed. I mean, it's just beyond.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
Now, unfortunately, it's not limited to children who commit familicide and do these horrific things. Because a father in Texas named Pedro Luis Parra Polgar is accused of intentionally setting his house on fire while his three children were still inside. Which, lighting his house on fire with his children inside, he is clearly diabolical, right? Who the freak does that?
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I was going to cuss, but I caught myself, guys. Now, the fire was originally reported on November 6th at their home in Texas, and authorities said that after the fire was started, two of the children, who are both 15 years old, were able to quickly escape. They luckily only suffered minor injuries.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
However, the third child, who is just three years old, was not able to get out of the house by himself. Obviously, a three-year-old. So police quickly responded to the scene, and that's when they heard sounds coming from inside the house. They immediately knew that somebody was trapped inside, and they knew that they had to act very fast.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So they entered through a bedroom window, and thankfully, they were able to get this child out in time. Now, this is the audio from the body cam footage during the rescue. I want you to take a listen. I hear him.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
At the very end of that, you can hear this child, this three-year-old child, crying, which, thank God the police got there in time. Can you imagine the fear, the just, I don't know, the absolute horror that would be going through this young child's mind?
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
They were immediately airlifted to a nearby hospital since he had breathed in, you know, so much smoke, and luckily the hospital was able to treat and release this three-year-old boy. Pedro also suffered major injuries from the fire that he started, which, sorry not sorry, right? You deserve it. Wish there were more.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
He ended up having to stay in the hospital until this past Thursday to recover and then was released. But after he was released from the hospital, he was checked into the Fort Bend County Jail in Texas. He's being charged with three counts of attempted murder, and his bond is set at $2.25 million.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
It's not been shared where the children are staying as of this time, but I hope that they are with a trusted family member or loved one. And according to court records, Pedro is from Venezuela. He's a Venezuelan national. So Immigrations and Customs Enforcements have also filed to detain him. Now, this case just brings up a lot of questions, right?
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I mean, first and foremost, what kind of father does this? The poor children in all of this. Two 15-year-olds and a 3-year-old. I'm so happy that the 15-year-olds were able to get out safely and that the police were able to respond so quickly and save the 3-year-old, but it's just horrible.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
We talk about what that must feel like for, like, betrayal from a family member or a parent and knowing in that moment that they're the ones responsible. What does that do to you trauma-wise, your trust issues, your recovery? It's just horrible. Could this have been a case of mental illness? Was it a father snapping close to the holidays and just didn't want the responsibility of his children?
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
We're going to talk about some new cases that are breaking. We also are going to talk about these brothers who are in real estate and they've been now like accused of sex trafficking. It's a really disgusting and insane situation, but a lot of you have been asking that I talk about it.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I don't know. I'm sure that we will learn more in the coming weeks. Now, I want to talk about another new case that's coming out of New Jersey before we get into, you know, the Diddy and Jay-Z of it all, the Hannah Kobayashi of it all, the brothers in real estate sex trafficking of it all. Because this story is like, honestly, it's haunting. And as a parent, it makes me sick to my stomach.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
It also gives me Jodi Hildebrand vibes. So a teacher in New Jersey is accused of taping a nine-year-old boy to a desk for almost an hour. Which, yes, you heard that right. A teacher, along with the TA, the teacher's aide, watched this entire thing happen.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
They taped not just like his hands to the top of the desks, not as if that would be any better, but they taped this little boy's neck down to the desk. And I guess they did this as some sort of sick form of punishment. So this happened in October, and the teacher was a man named Todd Lewis who worked at Lenox Elementary School.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
He allegedly put masking tape around the back of this nine-year-old little boy's neck and then stuck it to the student's desk for 40 to 50 minutes. The little boy said that the teacher's aide, named Sally Ann, was also inside the room, in the classroom, but she didn't do anything to intervene or stop it.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
So Todd was charged with one count of endangering the welfare of a child, and Sally Ann was charged with abuse and neglect of children. So authorities say that Todd appeared in court on Thursday, but was released under monitoring until his trial. Todd is looking at facing 5 to 10 years in prison, while on the other hand, Sally Ann could face up to 18 months.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
The school district released a statement saying that both of the teachers were placed on leave and they also are banned from the campus, which... Good, but in my opinion, bare minimum.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
The investigation is still ongoing, and the reason for why this boy was even taped to the desk in the first place has not been released, although I am hard-pressed to imagine that there is any excuse that anybody could throw out there that would make this okay or justifiable.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I mean, taping a little boy's head down to a desk, it sounds absurd, and it definitely sounds like an abuse of power by the teacher. Teachers are meant to be trusted with kids, and kids are meant to trust the teachers in return, right?
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
And then we're also going to revisit P. Diddy and Jay-Z and who apparently that celebrity B-A-B-C, I don't remember what letter it was, the female celebrity was in that room. Again, only allegations and speculation, but people, of course, did their digging. They found a lot of old photos from the night in question. They found who was attached to Diddy all night.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
I mean, I feel like not to harp on the school system and everything that goes into, you know, gun control and all that, but what I'm going to say here is there's already such a huge risk factor with children not being homeschooled. I don't homeschool my children.
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224: Real Estate Bros. Sex Ring, Hannah SPEAKS, JLo Celebrity B?, Jodi Hildebrandt 2.0, LISK Update & Killer Teen Confession
You know, I'm not going to go into what I do with my kids and what schools they go to, but the point is a lot of parents are choosing to homeschool their children right now because of the horrific gun violence that has been on the upswing in the country.
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but just imagine how peyton must feel i mean having to deal with so much by just 22 years old at this point and now knowing both her attackers are going to be essentially free that is a terrifying thought and i'm curious to know what you guys think if you think this is the right move Or if you think like, no, she should remain in there for a little while longer.
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I personally obviously have my own opinions. So let me know what you guys think. I'm going to just go grab a quick drink of water. I'll be right back and let's hear from today's sponsors. And as always, thank you for understanding that sponsors are essential to keeping this podcast free. Okay, guys, let's talk about something that we don't often bring up, bloating, because it's the worst, right?
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Even when I'm trying to wear my Spanx, it doesn't really help. I mean, whether it's ruining a date night or just making me feel uncomfortable during my recording sessions or just kind of like leaving me drained, it's something that I used to deal with all the time. But that's when a friend told me about Seed's DS01 Daily Symbiotic, and let me tell you, it has been a total game changer for me.
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DSO-1 is a two-in-one probiotic and prebiotic that is formulated with 24 clinically and scientifically studied strains, all to support your entire body. We're talking gut health, skin health, heart health, immune health, I mean, the works. And what really sold me is that DSO-1 is clinically validated to reduce bloating and improve regularity in just two weeks.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
And after making it a part of my routine, I have noticed such a difference. I feel lighter, less weighed down, and honestly, just like more comfortable in my day-to-day life. I notice like my pants, my sweats, everything I'm wearing, it just fits me better. So fitting it into my routine is so simple too. I take two capsules in the morning with water and then I'm just good to go.
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It's become such an easy wellness step, especially starting the new year. I've even started recommending it to my husband and my sister. So get ahead of the new year with a routine that helps you now by going to seed.com slash serialistly and use code 25serialistly to get 25% off your first month.
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That's 25% off your first month of Seed's DS01 Daily Symbiotic at seed.com slash serialistly, code 25serialistly. Okay, guys, I am so excited to share that today's episode is sponsored by Roe. If you're looking for a faster and more affordable way to reach your weight loss goals, Roe has got you covered.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
I mean, did you know that Roe now offers FDA-approved weight loss vials for half the list price of auto-injector pens? That means achieving results that you can see faster without jumping through insurance hoops or applying savings cards. And here's how it works. First, you'll complete an online medical visit to see if you qualify.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
but really for everybody who is watching this as it's unfolding because they're still not fully contained yet. Yes, some of them have been, but not the major ones. So what I want to do today before I get into the headlines is kind of just give you like topside information about these fires.
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Your Roe-affiliated provider will assess your BMI, your lab results, and your medical history to determine if GLP-1 medications are the right fit for you. And the best part is you can do it all from the comfort of your own home. No doctor's visits, no waiting rooms required, nothing. Once prescribed, patients lose an average of 15% of their weight within a year when paired with diet and exercise.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
This powerful formula from Eli Lilly targets two hormones to curb hunger and delivers results with less nausea. Plus, Ro members receive support throughout the process, so you're never navigating it alone. Join over the 385,000 people who have already chosen Ro to access GLP-1s. Head to ro.co.ae to see if you qualify. That's ro.co.ae.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
And for full safety information about GLP-1 medications, visit ro.co.safety. All right, guys. So now we're back. And I want to just talk to you really quickly about the TikTok ban updates because there has been some breaking news as of this morning. Now, as I'm sure you've heard and you've known for a while, the app TikTok has been facing a potential expiration date of January 19th, 2025. And
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
i think a lot of people who love the app and even small businesses on tick tock and even content creators whose income streams come directly from tick tock have kind of been on the edge of their siege just hoping that something will magically you know reverse the ban and not completely like affect their income and recently there have been some updates on the potential ban so let me just say it's not looking the greatest guys but we might have a glimmer of hope
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
So the ban was all set to go through, like the Supreme Court ruled in favor of it, but then just this week, Senator Markey introduced a bill to extend the deadline for the TikTok ban, and they took it to the Senate floor. In an excerpt from this, it says, "...as the January 19th deadline approaches, TikTok creators and users across the nation are understandably alarmed.
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They are uncertain about the future of the platform, their accounts, and the vibrant online communities that they have cultivated." These communities cannot be replicated on another app. A ban would dismantle a one-of-a-kind informational and cultural ecosystem, silencing millions in the process. The stakes here are high.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
That's why I will soon introduce the Extend the TikTok Deadline Act to extend the deadline by which ByteDance must sell TikTok or face a ban by an additional 270 days. Let me be clear, TikTok has its problems. Like every social media platform, TikTok poses a serious risk to the privacy and mental health of our young people. So I will continue to hold TikTok accountable for such behavior.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
But a TikTok ban would impose serious consequences on millions of Americans who depend on the app for social connections and for their economic livelihood. We cannot allow that to happen. And just in on Tuesday, Congressman Ro Khanna also signed on to this bill. So we don't know what that means. We don't know if it's going to go through.
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I'm not going to go into all of the nitty gritty, but I just want to like level set a little bit of what's been going on because social media, of course, always portrays something as one thing, right? And one of the biggest things I'm seeing right now is, you know, Who cares? It's the celebrities. It's millionaires. They can rebuild.
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But as the clock ticks closer towards the 19th, most users want to know two things. What to expect and if there's any hope that after this most recent information and hearing that maybe there will be an extension.
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Now, first, I want to just mention what to expect, because if the law does go into effect, you're not going to wake up on the 19th and the app is just no longer on your phone and it's completely like wiped off the face of the earth. That's not how it works.
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However, there wouldn't be any more updates to the app and newer users who want to download the app will no longer be able to access it in the app store. And then as time goes on, if your app isn't updating, it basically will become, you know, not usable. So it's going to be a slow process, but you'll still have it for a period of time.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Now, apparently a group called Project Liberty, which was formed by billionaire entrepreneur and former Los Angeles Dodgers owner Frank McCourt, has made an offer to ByteDance, the owners of TikTok, to buy TikTok.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
And although I don't know the exact numbers of what the bid was, I also know that Shark Tank investor Kevin O'Leary, who has been backing the group, stated that he would be willing to pay up to $20 billion for TikTok, calling it a legacy opportunity. which I can't even begin to comprehend that kind of money alone, let alone it being spent on an app, but you do you.
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It sounds like a good deal, apparently. So on top of that, Kevin also added, we don't need the algorithm. We don't want the algorithm. So clearly there's some kind of working plan going on behind the scenes if ByteDance does decide to sell to a bidder.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
And even if ByteDance would decide to sell when it's cutting close to the deadline, the law also allows the president to grant a single 90-day extension if the sale is underway. So really, there seems to be a lot of possibility and possible leeway here in terms of options. It's just whether or not it'll sell if they extend it. I mean, only time will tell. And the clock is definitely ticking.
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But what I did find so funny this week is that there was this Chinese app called RedNote. And it's basically the Chinese version of TikTok, which I thought I had no idea that like China didn't have access to TikTok, especially if we're saying that that's the whole threat. I don't know. It goes over my head.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
But anyway, I was seeing on my TikTok feed that this new, not this new, but this existing Chinese app called Red Note is similar to TikTok and it's where everybody's going. And when I tell you this, TikTok users from the US flocked to this app, guys. It has been hysterical.
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The comment section alone has been like enough to just like bring me so much joy throughout the day because they're all going over there. They're posting their TikToks with like Mandarin subtitles.
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the people over there are posting their own TikTok saying welcome TikTok refugees we welcome all Americans they're posting things from their homework asking for the Americans to help them I mean it is so funny but also kind of like heartwarming in a weird way because you're seeing just like this new community kind of blossom together where these two people like these two countries are coming together and like
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And I just kind of want to remind people that that's not really true. I mean, the land is valued at one thing, but these homes and what those are valued at, that's a whole other thing. Not to mention, like, and again, this is like, you know...
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they're accepting each other and they're being so nice to each other. And I mean, I know it's all because of the satire of it all, but it actually is kind of like nice to see. I even saw a TikTok this morning on regular TikTok, where it talked about how the congressman signed on for that bill. And somebody in the comments, it made me laugh so hard.
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They're like, sorry, can you please put Mandarin subtitles on this? That's my primary language to
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like it's just it's really really funny but i don't know sometimes you got to find humor in the little things right now i know i kind of just derailed and went on something that's not true crime related sorry about that but i feel like i just needed to talk about the ban because so many people are talking about it and because a lot of you found me on tiktok so if it goes away you can find me on instagram or on youtube
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Now let's talk about this new mysterious case coming out of North Carolina, because the family of 25-year-old Heather Williams are begging the public to come forward with any potential information in regards to her mysterious death. So Heather was last seen on ring camera footage on January 4th, 2025 at around 10 p.m.
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She was leaving her family's house and getting into a light-colored four-door sedan with a sunroof, but the car was not familiar to any of her friends or family. She was also last seen wearing gray sweatpants and a dark-colored t-shirt. She hadn't taken any bags with her or anything like she was planning on staying away from home for a while, so they really were upset by seeing this footage.
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And it also was the last footage of the last time Heather was seen alive, because nearly six days went by and Heather was still missing. Now, with every day that Heather still hadn't come back home, her family, of course, grew more and more worried. And even though Heather had gotten into that car willingly,
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her friends and family knew that there was no way that she would ever not come home willingly. So they began fearing and, of course, imagining all of the worst-case scenarios, just hoping and praying that by some miracle she would return home and be unharmed, and that it would all just be one big misunderstanding.
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Her family also stated that Heather was struck by a car in 2015 and that the incident left her with significant cognitive impairment, also a limited vocabulary and limited use of her right leg and arm, causing kind of this pronounced limp, which made her, unfortunately, a much easier target than most. And it was a big part of the reason of why there was such a sense of urgency to find her.
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not applicable to everybody but some of these homes aren't going to even have the opportunity to be built again because of the different permitting issues and zoning and all sorts of different like uh i can't even think the word i'm looking for different like requirements and problems but like that's a whole separate thing in and of itself it's the fact that so many people are displaced
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Now, a missing woman in general is terrifying, but a missing woman with disabilities, that creates a whole other level of fear and worry. There were multiple medications that she needed to take daily, and it would affect her ability to function properly if she didn't take them almost immediately.
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This was also why when the statewide missing persons alert was sent out, she was considered to be a missing and endangered person, not just a missing person. Despite her struggles after the accident, though, her family says that she worked tirelessly to regain as much health as possible and to overall just live a normal life.
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Her sister Mary Williams even described her by saying, Over the years, she's worked really hard. just having a normal life and doing normal things that 25-year-olds do. But she was loving, and she loved her family, and she loved Jesus.
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Her family also warned the public that the car that she was seen getting into may have belonged to somebody that she met online, although they couldn't know for sure. The exact reasoning for why they might believe that, I'm not so sure. But I would imagine that being 25 and trying to live a normal life, Heather probably was interested in online dating and meeting new people.
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which her close family and friends would have probably all known about. But again, I'm not exactly sure. We all know, especially online, people have their secrets. So on January 10th, the local newspaper, The Observer, reported that police had located the car that was seen on the Ring camera footage and that the driver had also been identified.
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I don't know if that information has been given to her family yet. I would imagine it has. I also don't know if it's like strictly confidential for law enforcement only. Who knows? But the same day that that car was found and that driver was identified, The body of a woman was found by the local police, and it was found in a heavily wooded area. The body was later identified as being Heather.
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Her sister made a statement through Facebook after finding out about this tragic news, saying, "'I pray whoever is responsible for this is held accountable and that there is justice for Heather. Our family finds comfort in the love that Heather had for God, and through all of her trials and tribulations, she has never lost faith, and I know we won't lose ours either.'
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I thank God for the years that we had with her. Thank you everyone who has prayed, reached out, and helped us try to find her. Please continue to pray for my parents. Now, other than the area that her body was found in, not a whole lot is like known at the moment about how Heather's body was found.
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Her cause of death, as well as the time of death, is also still yet to be discovered pending her autopsy. The police did, however, immediately begin investigating her death as a homicide. So following the identification of the driver, the police also announced that they did have a person of interest, yet the driver's name still hasn't been released to the public.
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And so far, no arrests have been made either.
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One of the few things we do know about the current investigation is that the police announced that they were able to trace a three-minute phone call made by Heather in the days leading up to her disappearance.
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The update didn't specifically say if it was to the unidentified driver or why this phone call was significant to her case, but reading between the lines, I kind of feel like A points to B points to C. It kind of makes sense. We also learned that the last activity on her phone was at 12 10 a.m. and it was a text message that was sent to her phone.
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Some, yes, are fortunate enough to have family homes or maybe even a second home or afford a hotel, but so many are not. And I've been able to witness that, like being here and seeing the devastation. Now, like I said, let me talk to you just again very, very quickly and give you kind of a breakdown of what's happening right now, where things are at, and, you know, what's going on.
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So it was a little after two hours after Heather was seen getting into that car. It hasn't been shared with the public who that text was from, who wrote it, or what was said.
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Now, I would imagine that since this case is still so fresh, a lot of like really key bits of information probably won't be shared with the public until an official arrest has been made so that they can, you know, really protect the integrity of the case. But despite having a person of interest, Heather's case is still far from being closed.
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And right now, the police, as well as her family, are urging the public to come forward with any potential information surrounding the case. They said, So I'm going to keep tabs on this case, and I will definitely let you know as we hear more. But my initial inkling, and I could be completely wrong, but I would imagine that maybe she was talking to somebody online. They offered to pick her up.
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They were going to go for a date. Maybe she was embarrassed, wanted to keep it a secret, and I would imagine there is some sort of connection with this driver because if not, why not announce that they've ruled them out as a suspect? Why not announce who they were or what the connection was? I mean, something just isn't making sense.
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I would imagine they have the driver, but they probably don't have enough to tie them to Heather's death. Maybe they're still waiting on evidence. They're waiting on like extra CCTV footage, and that's why they're trying to crowdsource. I'm not really sure, but I will keep you updated. Now, this next case is about a man who has been arrested for murdering his 29-year-old girlfriend.
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So let me talk to you a little bit about this case. 29-year-old Shannon Anderson was reported missing by her 40-year-old boyfriend Jonathan Link back on July 30, 2001. Now, when she went missing, there were no signs of forced entry and no signs of a struggle at Shannon's house. So, without much information, the police just started investigating.
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And for weeks, police in this area, which was Kettering, Ohio, they were searching for her, they were hoping for answers, they were trying to find any information possible. But ultimately, their worst fears were confirmed when her decomposed body was discovered on August 16th, a little over two weeks after she was reported missing.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Today is headline highlights, which means we're going through all the breaking cases, all the news, everything happening in the true crime world.
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She was found in a rural area of Ross County, which was over an hour away from where she was last seen. Her body also indicated that there was severe trauma. Shannon was the mother of two daughters, then ages 7 and 9. She was also estranged from her husband. Her cause of death ended up being ruled multiple blunt force trauma to the head. This was according to the prosecutor's office.
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And strangely, her car was later found abandoned in a parking lot at the Atlanta airport. but it wasn't found until October of that year, so months later, which kind of just added a really eerie twist to the case. So without much evidence but the boyfriend who had reported her missing, that's really who became the prime suspect.
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Now back in 2002, the Montgomery County Prosecutor's Office tried to bring the case to a grand jury, but they just didn't have enough evidence at the time to move forward. And although extensive investigative efforts were made at the time of the murder, including evidence collection and even witness interviews, the case went unsolved.
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So for decades, Shannon's family and friends and her children were left without justice or closure. But the investigators didn't give up. And over the years, law enforcement worked tirelessly to re-examine the evidence, to interview new witnesses, and just really build a stronger case. And their persistence? It paid off.
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So the first fires we know broke out on Tuesday, January 7th in the Pacific Palisades. So far, it's estimated that over 23,000 acres have been burned in the Palisades alone, and it still, like I said, isn't contained. I think when I checked this morning, it was a little under 20%.
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Through the investigation, more witnesses were located and interviewed, and new digital forensic evidence was also found and tested. So, on January 13th, 2025, the Montgomery County Prosecutor's Office announced that Jonathan Link has now been indicted on two counts of murder. That was her boyfriend who had reported her missing. This is literally 20 years later. It is crazy.
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So he's sent to be arraigned on January 28th, marking a huge step forward in the pursuit of justice for Shannon.
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And in a statement about the indictment, the prosecuting attorney praised the dedication of the Kettering Police Department and all of the other agencies that were involved, saying, Finally, after nearly a quarter century, this defendant will be held responsible for the murder of Shannon Anderson.
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And the reason I wanted to talk about that is because not only is it great that somebody is finally arrested and justice can be had, but it's a heartbreaking reminder of how long the road to justice really can be. But it's also proof of what can happen when investigators and family and friends refuse to give up.
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So now her children, her family, her friends hopefully will get the answers that they have desperately been waiting for for literally decades. So I like stories like that because it has a happy ending. Okay, guys, that is it for this week's episode of Headline Highlights. Thank you so much for tuning in with me.
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I am going to be back on the mic with you first thing Monday morning with an all new deep dive into a case. It's a wild one. I mean, you have got.
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catfishing you've got love triangles love what's the what's a square quadrants quadruple i don't even know what it is it is so so insane so we're diving into all the nitty gritty bits and pieces of it on monday and as a reminder if you feel like you still need more content to binge you're not quite done with your true crime fix for the week or your podcasters your favorite ones aren't putting out new episodes we put out ad-free bonus episodes every single friday
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So you can get access to that either through Patreon, which is patreon.com slash Annie Elise, or directly on the Apple Podcast app. And when you go there now, you'll unlock about 70 bonus episodes. So you will have a library of content to binge. All right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Be safe. Be nice. Don't kill anybody. Just get a divorce. Don't join any cults.
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And just try to be a good human. We're all doing our best, right? All right. I will be back on the mic with you very soon. Until then, stay safe. Bye.
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Now, the Eaton Fire has also devastated the northern part of Los Angeles, and it has burned a little over 14,000 acres, making it the second biggest fire in the area. So each of these fires grew, and they spread at just such an alarming rate because of our Santa Ana winds, which we get every single year. We always know they're coming. We're prepared for them.
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Why we were not prepared for them, I don't know. But take a listen to just this quick little snip from some of the residents.
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Because there's tomorrow, you know? Now, although the number is just increasing with every single minute that these fires continue raging, the devastation and the economic impact has been estimated to potentially be one that is anywhere from 135 to 150 billion. I mean, a lot of money.
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Also, aside from just the financial aspect of this, the confirmed deaths are currently at 24, though with the amount of people still missing and unaccounted for, that number is unfortunately only expected to rise. And I want to talk to you about a couple of these victims, because one victim that's been confirmed was 32-year-old Rory Sykes.
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Rory was born blind, also with cerebral palsy, and he was widely known for his speeches and really just talking about overcoming his disability. Now, due to his cerebral palsy, his ability to walk was greatly hindered.
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So when his mother, Shelly Sykes, first saw these, you know, cinders and embers from the wildfire nearing their property and then eventually landing on Rory's, you know, part of his estate, he shared, like, the cottage on their estate,
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She did everything that she could do to put them out with their gardening hose, trying to put it out, trying to save things, but as we know, with so many other people as well, it sadly wasn't enough. So she ran into Rory's home, hoping that she could drag him to safety, but with a recently broken arm, she was unable to move him.
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Now Rory knew that if Shelly didn't get out right then, that they would both be killed. So he did what would be such an incredibly difficult decision and thing to vocalize, but he told his mom to leave him and save herself. Which I cannot even begin to imagine the pain and the survivor's guilt that Shelly is probably feeling right now.
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But really quickly, before I get into all of the cases that we're going to be talking about today, I just want to talk about the fires that are happening right now in California. Because one of the biggest and the most prominent headlines in the news right now are, of course, the wildfires. And these fires have caused so much destruction, so much heartbreak, really all across the LA area.
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So I hope someday she's able to have some semblance of peace, but like that is just so incredibly heartbreaking. Other victims that we've learned about so far were Anthony and Justin Mitchell, and Anthony was an amputee who used a wheelchair and took care of his disabled son, Justin. He also was born with cerebral palsy.
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The two of them lived together near the Eaton Fire, and when Anthony's daughter last spoke to him, he had told her, you know, don't worry, we're planning on evacuating, there's nothing to fear. But sadly, they were never able to evacuate. and Anthony's body was found by the bed next to his son.
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Another victim was 85-year-old Annette Rosalie, and she insisted on staying in her Pacific Palisades home with her dog, Greetly, her little canary, Pepper, also with her two parrots and her turtle.
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But she was later found deceased inside the car on her property, which leads me to believe, and this is just me thinking and brainstorming, but I think she was trying to evacuate, but it was too late at that point. And the list, it really just goes on and on. Like I said, there are now 24 victims in total at the time of recording this who have been confirmed.
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And those stories that I just mentioned are just a few of the heartbreaking stories we've learned so far. It's easy to see on Instagram and on TikTok and even YouTube, the images and the videos of the fires taking these homes, seeing all of the celebrities who have lost their property, such as Mel Gibson, Spencer Pratt,
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Paris Hilton, all of these things, but there's also other people aside from celebrities, real people who not only have lost their home, their memories, any sort of financial security that they had, but as I just mentioned, many of them have lost their lives because they were faced with such a difficult decision of, if we both can't get out, one of us should get out.
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The fact that it still is only 20% contained, it is just, I haven't seen anything like it, and it is incredibly heartbreaking. So to any of you listeners who have been impacted in any way, shape or form, please know you're in my thoughts and prayers. I'm with you. I'm thinking about you. I'm hoping to get there this Saturday to, you know, do some boots on the ground volunteering as well.
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I've made some financial donations, but I really want to just like get out there and get my hands on things and help people. So if I see you out there, please come up to me. I just, we got to all pull together and help in any way that we can. Now moving over into more true crime news.
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While there was an element of true crime because of the arson with the fires, let's go into more of like the true crime news because there was a headline that broke last week that literally had my jaw on the ground. And it's about the Slender Man stabbing. I don't know if you are familiar with this case.
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I don't know if you know much about it, but I'm going to give you a little breakdown in a moment. I did do a deep dive on this case a couple years ago, so I will link it in the show notes for you. It's from YouTube. But I am unsettled. Like, to put it mildly, I am unsettled.
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So on January 9th, 2025, a judge ordered the now 22-year-old girl Morgan Geiser, otherwise known as the Slenderman Stabber, you know, in the true crime world, the judge granted a conditional release from her treatment at the Winnebago Mental Health Institute. Now, for some of you, the nickname Slenderman Stabber probably did ring a bell, right?
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But for those of you who aren't familiar, let me give you a very brief overview of that case. So in 2014, Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weier concocted this truly diabolical, horrific plan to lure their classmate Peyton into the woods for what she thought was going to be a harmless game of hide and seek.
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The game, however, ended in Morgan stabbing Peyton 19 times, all while Anissa just stood by watching and cheering her on, encouraging her to continue going. Now, what is so unsettling about this is that all three girls were just 12 years old. They were in the sixth grade when this disgusting attack happened.
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I personally live in California. Luckily, I am a little bit further south from where these fires have, you know, broken out and just taken so much. But
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Now, after this attack happened, which again, I did the deep dive, you can listen to it, it's very unsettling, like when they realize who was responsible and when they uncover all of the details, but it was later learned that the motive behind this attack
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was for Morgan and Anissa to kill someone, sacrifice someone, all so that they could earn the right to be this fictional horror character Slender Man's servants. They were worried and feared that he would harm them and their families if they didn't go through with it. So again, it was almost like some sacrifice to this fictional character.
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And again, that description is just putting it all lightly. So if you're unfamiliar with this case, I highly recommend doing more research into it. I also will link the deep dive because the overall story, as well as the police interviews with Morgan and Anissa in the aftermath of this brutal attack, I mean, it's wild to say the least.
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Now, when I say that those two girls genuinely believed in Slenderman, I mean it. He was definitely real to them. I mean, as real to them as you and me.
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Now, thankfully, Peyton made it out alive. But after the attacks, Morgan and Anissa then just instructed her to lie down while they went and supposedly were going to go get her help. However, she knew after some time had passed that what they promised her was just like a complete and total lie. They weren't getting her help.
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233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
i have friends who have lost their homes who have lost their family members homes tons of friends who have been evacuated and have had to flee and it's just it's really devastating and it's insane when you really think about the amount of destruction and i could be here
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
So she was somehow able to crawl to a nearby bike path nearly five hours after the attack. And when she did that, someone luckily found her and was able to get her help.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
But the fact that she was even able to make it out of this attack alive is honestly a miracle, because of the 19 stab wounds that were across her arms, her legs, her torso, her liver, and her stomach were two of the major organs that were hit. She was stabbed also with a 5-inch long blade.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Miraculously, I mean intervention by God or whoever you believe in, one of the stab wounds missed a major artery by less than a millimeter. It took surgeons over six hours in surgery to repair the damage, but they did, and she's still alive today because of it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
So when all of this was first going down, Morgan initially pleaded guilty to attempted first-degree intentional homicide, but she was later found not guilty by reason of mental defect. So she was sentenced to up to 40 years in a psychiatric facility, and she was sent in 2018 to the Winnebago Mental Health Institute. Shortly after the stabbings, Morgan was then diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Now her doctors for right now, of the current day, stated that she, quote, continues to exhibit symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, also anxiety and autism. But they clarified that she has shown no signs of any suicidal ideation since her 2021 attempt because she had attempted to take her own life a couple years into her stay and sentence.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Now, Anissa, on the other hand, also pleaded guilty to attempted second-degree intentional homicide, but she was later found not guilty also by reason of mental defect. She was sentenced to up to 25 years in a psychiatric institution, but she was later granted release in 2021, and she was ordered to live with her father and wear a GPS ankle monitor.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Now, since June of 2022, Morgan and her legal team have filed four petitions for her release. The first two were withdrawn after the doctor's reports essentially showed, you know, that she was not ready. And the third in April of 2024 was also denied, stating that she still potentially presented a threat to the public. And then, of course, now this fourth petition, it was actually granted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Three different psychologists who worked closely with Morgan at the treatment facility all spoke in favor of her release. stating she had made immense progress. Take a listen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
all day long and going on a rant about the fact that we didn't have water in the hydrants the fact that certain people are evading questions and everything into it but I just feel like there's so much I could say but if you're one of my listeners who has been affected by these fires I just want you to know my heart is with you I am so sorry for everything that you're going through this has been incredibly devastating I know not just for people in California but
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Yes. One doctor informed the court that Morgan had been taken off of her antipsychotic medications in early 2023 and since then had not had any symptoms. Another argued that if she remained contained and began to lose all hope of ever becoming a functioning part of society again, she, quote, may become more dangerous.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Now, my first thought when hearing that was, how can they say she isn't a danger to society, but also say that if she reaches a low point, she could become even more dangerous? I mean, sounds kind of contradictory, right? I don't know. It just worries me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
And I think, too, after three petitions where they say over and over again, you're not ready, can you then learn how to fake being ready so that the fourth petition goes through? Something about this just does not sit right with me. So the county circuit judge Michael Boren stated that her crime was, quote, a brutal, terrible offense, but ultimately felt like she has since grown up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
He also stated that in order for her to be truly rehabilitated, she needs to exist as a part of society. So the judge's final order was for the State Department of Health Services to set up a plan for her to be in a group home, as well as supervise her for his consideration at a hearing within 60 days. Now, Peyton's family, as you can imagine, was not hoping for this outcome.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Prior to the hearing, her family even released a statement saying, More recently, her request was denied. We are confident that the judicial system will make a decision that will ensure the community and my daughter remains safe. So far, there has been no public statement made from either Peyton or her family on the outcome of Morgan's hearing, so we'll just see what comes from that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I don't think it's that easy to just drive on a soccer field, especially a soccer field full of people, and when it's daylight outside. I mean, 5 p.m., I mean, I get it that maybe that's dusk at that point, but like... What? Like, what is the reasoning here? Not that any reasoning would excuse it, obviously, but like, what really happened here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And one key detail in this entire crash is that the car didn't just come up off the curb and then it ended up in a field a few feet away from the curb. This car was driving so fast that it hit a barrier that was surrounding the field, and it completely busted through this barrier.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So like I said, I don't know if this is a possible scenario of texting and driving, drunk driving, or just driving like a complete fucking idiot and losing control. Who knows, but I will be interested to hear more.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And my heart in the meantime, of course, obviously goes out to the parents of the poor kid who passed away because I can't imagine sending my child to soccer practice or just sending them to the field after school or whatever it is, thinking everything would be fine, everything would be okay because, you know, it usually is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
You usually don't have psychopaths driving onto the field and then you just hear this devastating news of what happened. It is like such a freak tragedy and I don't want to say freak accident because we aren't entirely sure of what happened, you know, but... a freak tragedy nonetheless, and it's devastating.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So don't worry, I haven't forgotten that, but we will be doing a solo episode on that very, very soon. I think I'm planning to record it tomorrow. A lot of news came out this week about it too, even more updates, so... We will definitely get to all things Idaho soon. And if you missed it, just a reminder, this last Monday I did a deep dive on Kevin Franke.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now coming off of the heels of that, I do want to kind of go into a situation that has a little bit of positive news, which we don't often get to talk about on here, and that makes me really happy that I get to share this positive news, because we have updates in a 27-year-old cold case.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Just recently, a press release out of New Haven, Connecticut announced that a 27-year-old cold case has officially been closed. I And spoiler alert, it is for an amazing reason. So let me take you back. On October 5th, 1999, an almost two-year-old little girl named Andra Reyes was believed to have been kidnapped from her home in New Haven by her mother, Rosa.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now at the time, she was in the custody of her father, whose name has not been released and is currently being kept from the public. But because of this, right away, the investigators on the case believed that this was a case of non-custodial parent kidnapping and then hiding the child. So a warrant was issued for custodial interference, but both Andra and Rosa were nowhere to be found.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So the belief for many years was that Rosa had taken her daughter to Pueblo, Mexico. Now, why exactly they honed in on this specific area, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe that's where Rosa was from. Maybe that's where she still had family. I don't really know. But despite this theory, neither one of them was ever found.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So for years, her father would travel to Mexico trying to search for his daughter. There were age progression photos that were released every year. There was trying to keep her name in the news all the time. Yet nobody called in with any useful information, not that one tip that could have changed everything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And I'll be honest, it's not uncommon for kidnappings like this when it's a custodial interference case. for them to end very tragically. I mean, think of Susan Powell and what happened with those boys. And we see it time and time again, where it's more of that mentality of like, if I can't have them, no one can. And that's what everybody was beginning to be afraid of.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
That's what they were fearful of, that that same kind of thing would happen in this situation. and it just kind of went quiet. There were no leads, there was no information, and the trail just ran cold. But remember, this was 1999. So in 2023, the case was reopened, but now the case had fresh eyes, and this case was really heavily publicized.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And because of that, eventually a woman came forward, and she was claiming that she was this little girl. She was all grown up now, but... It was her. She recognized herself. The woman even sent messages to the father personally saying, I'm your baby Andra. You know, it's me. I'm all grown up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And I would imagine receiving messages like that as a parent, you're full of a lot of mixed feelings, right? Probably feelings of... hope and excitement and optimism, hoping that this is reality and that you're finally getting answers and that you're reunited, but also a lot of what ifs, like what if this is all fake? What if I'm getting my hopes up?
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
What if this person is a scam artist like we've unfortunately seen happen time and time again in cases like these? So finally, the woman provided her DNA sample. And after it was recently tested with the father's DNA, it came back that it was a match. Now, we don't have a whole lot of information about what happened after they learned this news, but it was a match.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And if you're watching this on YouTube, it released way earlier over on the podcast. So as a reminder, if you want to listen to these episodes before they get released on YouTube, like days before, you can do that on the podcast. Because, you know, YouTube likes to be a thorn in my side and not approve things all the time. But we did a deep dive into Kevin Franke because...
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I mean, she was who she was saying she was. We also know that Andrade does, in fact, currently live in Mexico, but we don't know what her relationship is like with her mother Rosa. The warrant for Rosa's arrest is still active. However, it's only valid in the U.S., and the investigators have reason to believe, of course, that she's also in Mexico.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So I'm sure that she probably will never not only enter the U.S. again because she doesn't want to be arrested, but I would imagine she's trying to lay low even there, even if they can't get her on a warrant there. But it seems at least that there were answers. Not that that makes it right, but at least that it was, in fact, custodial interference.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
We also don't know if Andra and her father are working on their relationship at this point or not. We don't know what the dynamic is and what, you know, what has transpired over the last two decades, what the reasoning was, why she didn't come forward sooner. We don't really know much of anything. And I can imagine that rebuilding that relationship would be a really difficult thing to do, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I mean, from both sides of the coin. I can't imagine one day learning that I have a father that I never knew about. I feel like that feels scary that time is limited. This person is a stranger. What really happened? While on the dad's end of things, I would imagine he probably feels similar. Maybe like happy that his daughter is back, but wanting answers, wanting questions.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And like, that's got to be a major adjustment. So I just hope that everybody in this situation can heal in whatever way makes the most sense for them. And I'm so glad that after all this time, we know that she is alive, she is well, and she has been reunited with her father.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, I want to talk with you guys all about Lori Vallow on Dateline, what's going on with the manner of death and cause of death ruled with Gene Hackman. Also, this new case that everybody's asking me to cover about a teenager named Miranda who was lured on social media and then dismembered by two freaks. So we're going to get into all of that.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But first, we are going to take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. You've heard me talk about Helix before, but I've had my Helix mattress now for about two years, and I can confidently say that it is the best sleep investment that I have ever made. I mean, I'm telling you the truth. From the very first night, I noticed a huge difference. I wasn't tossing and turning.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I wasn't waking up all sweaty and gross. I wasn't having like my normal lower back pain because I'm a side sleeper. And my Oura Ring even showed that I was finally getting consistent deep sleep for like the first time in forever. And it's also not just me who loves it. I might have already told you this, but my mom slept over one night to watch the kids.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And the next morning, she literally said to me, she's like, that was the best sleep that I've had in years. I mean, she was so obsessed that I ended up getting her a Helix mattress as well. And now she won't stop raving about how much better she sleeps. She loves it so much. I also referenced my bed as a moon cloud bed. It's like It is just my haven. It is so comfy.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I have my Helix mattress that is so soft, so comfortable. I have my big fluffy duvet. It's like, oh my gosh, I could literally live inside that bed. And after almost two years, my Helix mattress still feels just as comfortable and supportive as day one. So if you're still waking up exhausted or groggy or sore, it might be time to take the Helix sleep quiz and find your perfect match.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I did that deep dive in Ruby Frankie a few weeks back and after watching the Hulu series and knowing so much about that case, I was left with a really bad taste in my mouth. I was like, feels like this guy is not taking accountability. It's almost as though he's trying to just like absolve himself of having any responsibility related to the treatment of his kids, which I get it.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Plus, with their 100-night risk-free trial, there's no reason not to even try it. Trust me, once you sleep on a Helix, you will never go back. So go to helixsleep.com slash serialistly for their March Madness sale of 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com slash serialistly for 20% off sitewide. helixsleep.com slash serialistly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I feel like we're in the circle of trust, and you can't even begin to imagine how much money I have spent on skincare, beauty products, hair products, all these different things over the years trying to fix issues like dry skin, breakouts, frizzy hair, shedding, even color fading, or my blonde turning yellow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But it turns out, after all those products that I was wasting money on, everything I was trying and buying, I was overlooking the most fundamental step. The water that I shower in. It's so simple. It's so simple. It's like, what's that thing from Zoolander? The files, they're in the computer. Like, hello, we all know how important it is to filter the water we drink.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So why aren't we thinking the same way about the water that we shower in? And that's where Jolie comes in. Now, I originally saw Jolie all over my TikTok feed and I was finally like, okay, let me give this a whirl. Let me try it. And guys, let me just tell you, my hair feels so soft. My skin feels so soft. My breakouts are gone. It's just the best.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Jolie is a beauty wellness company that purifies the water that we shower in so that you have better skin, better hair, and better overall well-being. Their filtered shower head is best in class, removing chlorine and heavy metals that strip the moisture from your skin and also damage your hair. And it's the only clinically tested shower filter out there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And the results, I mean, honestly, they speak for themselves because 81% of people saw less hair shedding, 40% less frizz, and better color retention and a healthier hair surface layer. For me, like I said, I noticed a difference almost immediately. It wasn't just TikTok hype. It was real. I mean, my hair felt softer. My skin wasn't as dry. My blonde didn't look as yellow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And the best part is Jolie doesn't mess with your water pressure. It still feels amazing to shower in. A lot of these shower heads like dwindle it down to where it's just little droplets coming out. And this, it still has amazing pressure. So honestly, if you're investing in your skin and hair, this is the upgrade you didn't even know that you needed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Try it out for yourself and you will never want to shower without it again. Jolie will give you your best skin and hair guaranteed. Head to jolieskinco.com slash AE to try it out for yourself with free shipping. And if you don't like it, you can return your Jolie for a full refund within 60 days. No questions asked.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Again, that's jolieskinco.com slash AE to try it out for yourself with free shipping. Okay, guys, so the next thing that I want to talk with you about is the updates. And we'll be very brief here, but there have been updates in the Gene Hackman cause of death and his wife's cause of death and everything with that situation. Because if you remember, at first they said no suspicion of foul play.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Then they ruled it suspicious. Then it looked as though they had been there for days or weeks. Then there were reports of mummification. So we're finally getting some answers. The investigators believe that on February 11th, his wife Betsy died in the home due to something called hantavirus.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
He wasn't there when everything came to a head and to this boiling point with Jodi and with Ruby. However, he was there for the whole backstory before Jodi even entered the picture. He was seen on camera inflicting these very, in my opinion, harsh punishments against his children, exploiting them, caring more about the paycheck than his own children. Then he disappeared for a year.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, this is apparently an extremely rare disease, and thank God it's rare because, like in this case, it can be very fatal. And those of you who have never heard of this virus, trust me, you're definitely not alone. I was like, what is this? I've never even heard of this. But it's a disease that is spread from rodents that are infected to humans.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So this can be transferred through contaminated urine, feces, even saliva. And on the more extreme side of things, it can also be spread through a bite. Now remember, both of their bodies along with their dog weren't found in the home until February 26th.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So people were wondering, okay, what was the reasoning for the huge lapse in time between when they were saying Betsy died on the 11th and then when their bodies were eventually found? Well, the investigators have claimed that due to Gene's pretty advanced Alzheimer's, he more than likely hadn't even realized that Betsy was dead. Betsy was also his primary caretaker.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So unfortunately, there's a pretty good chance that for days he kind of just wandered around, not even realizing what was going on, maybe not eating, maybe not drinking. And you would think that just by hearing that, that maybe he did die from that starvation or dehydration, especially depending on how advanced his Alzheimer's was and his lack of independence.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
However, his official manner of death was ruled as heart disease, heart disease with complications from his Alzheimer's disease. So both of their causes of deaths were ruled as natural causes. And the investigators came to this conclusion from a kind of shocking piece of evidence, his pacemaker. Due to the data on his pacemaker, they believe that Gene likely died on February 18th. And here's why.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, I've seen a lot of people online who still aren't happy with these answers and people who believe that this is still some sort of big cover up. And I got to be honest, I don't think it goes that deep. I really, really don't. I think this was just a very tragic and sad case. All in all, we're still in the early stages of the investigation, though.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So in the upcoming weeks, we might get more answers or more little breadcrumbs here and there of information to make this whole thing come together. But I think sometimes when really odd things like this happen that just seem so out of the blue or so impossible, people want the answers that make them feel good. And sometimes we don't get that. It's not realistic.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And so I think that's why people are still demanding more information. But regardless of where you stand, I think the one thing we can all agree on is this case is truly a tragedy through and through. And it does make me feel a little bit better, at least, that this wasn't some, you know, well-thought-out, gruesome-type murder case or... Some situation of both of them suffering in a horrible way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I mean, hopefully not at least. Maybe Jean did. I don't know. I hope not. But at least we are starting to gather some sort of resolution. Now, how do I want to queue this up? Now let's talk about Lori Vallow. And you know how much I freaking hate this lady.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And if you follow me on Instagram or TikTok, you know I was having a heyday last week and over the weekend with short forms of Lori from like previews of this Dateline episode. where she says Keith Morrison's name literally like 10,000 times. And in a very narcissistic way of trying to almost like
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
and so I felt like and I'm not you can listen to the episode of course but I just felt like he was trying to get off scot-free and say now how he wants custody of his children how he just wants to do right by them yet in every other sentence in his interviews that he's doing in his like media press campaign tour he's still talking about how Ruby like he loves her and justifying actions and so I wanted to do an episode where I'm like no no no that's kind of like
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I don't know, not manipulate him, maybe manipulate him, but like, okay, Keith, well, what do you think about that, Keith? I don't know, Keith. Who told you that, Keith? I don't know. How old are you, Keith? What do you think? Like, just like, shut the fuck up, lady. Like, honestly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So I was thinking when I was making all of those reels, which you can see them at underscore Annie Elise on both platforms. I was thinking like, okay, these clearly are just like the highlights. Surely she didn't act this unhinged the entire interview.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
guys if you can't see my eyes right now they are very big i'm rolling them so about far back i can see my brain this was the most tough interview i've watched in a long time and i watch a lot of interviews i watch a lot of footage out there she is so unhinged so much so to where like i'll be honest when everything was going on with her and during her trial when we were following it we even had sent our correspondent to attend the trial in person
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I thought, okay, this is all a facade. She clearly is just deranged a little bit and evil to the core, absolutely, but I didn't really think that there was a huge element of her being mentally unwell. I thought, like, okay, she's a lunatic for having these beliefs, but I truly didn't think that there was a chemical imbalance.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
After watching this interview, not to give Lori a pass, but like I'm not so sure. She seemed nutty in this interview. And that's not to like shade anybody who goes through mental health struggles. Not at all. But like she was on a different planet. She truly was.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Unless she really was just trying so hard to sell this version of herself ahead of her new trial that's going to be happening in Arizona for her ex-husband Charles. Or not even her ex-husband. Her former husband Charles. Which I'm getting ahead of myself. So let me kind of break it down. So if you have no idea what I'm talking about, last Friday, Lori Vallow was interviewed on Dateline.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And what she had to say for herself, it was pretty on brand, but it doesn't make it any less insane because this episode was about an hour and a half long. And if you want to see it for yourself, I highly recommend checking it out. But be warned, it is a painful watch. And here's the quick overview. Lori's mannerisms throughout the entire interview are straight up like the Joker.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to this week's episode of Headline Highlights with me, Annie Elise, over here on Serialistly. And guys, we have got so much to talk about today because there have been new cases that are breaking that I have just been flooded with requests asking for me to cover, get my take on it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
That is the best way that I can describe it, truly. I was going to try to sugarcoat it maybe a little bit, but trust me when I say this was an absolute impossible feat. I mean, take a listen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, just from that short little clip, you can already tell that Lori was in this like silly, goofy kind of mood. But that honestly wasn't even close to being the worst of it. It's hard to pick out just one thing, but I think that the most controversial and out there thing that Lori did claim during all of this is that she knows in her heart and soul that she and Chad will both be exonerated.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Which that's a huge claim to say you both are going to be exonerated. And not just saying it like flippantly. Like we'll both be exonerated one day. You guys don't know the truth. She was like saying it with so much conviction. She truly I think believes this. Saying no I've seen it. I've talked to Jesus. He has showed me this. We will be exonerated. Like.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
using her chest and saying this, like really believing it, saying Jesus is still to this day showing her visions, even from prison, and that she just knows because of these visions that she is going to be exonerated because she's seen it. Simple as that. Which I wish I was making this stuff up, guys, but take a listen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I'm very rarely speechless, but this was pretty close to being one of the times that I was speechless because there's so much that I want to say yet so little that I'm able to even find the accurate words for.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Even after this whole discussion about being exonerated in the future, Lori just goes on to confidently list all of the different things that she's going to do with her life once she's exonerated. And guess what one of those things is? Not, you know, be reunited with my weirdo Peter Griffith-looking husband. Not continue to think that I'm one of the 144,000s. Nothing like that. No.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Lay all the cards out on the table, right? I'm going to play original clips from you that you had made public where it's contradicting your statements that you're making now. And let's just like really call it out, Kevin. Let's call it like it is and call out what kind of father you truly were, because this whole little act.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
lori thinks she's gonna be on dancing with the stars like i i'm trying not to laugh like no she thinks she's gonna be on dancing with the stars that she's gonna be exonerated that she's gonna have this warm welcoming with open arms by all the public all of hollywood and they're gonna say You know what, doomsday mom?
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Even though you were convicted of killing your two children in a horrible way, and even though you were also going on trial for killing your husband, and even though there's been death all around you, your brother, your husband's wife, all these, you know what? We don't believe that. We don't believe that. Come put your heels on, girl. Come do the tango with us.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Like, is she out of her fucking mind? King mine? Which the answer to that is obviously yes, right? She's got to be. She's got to be.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So you would think that given her whole religious, whatever you want to call it, I don't know, I lean more towards psychosis, that she would want to do something with her newfound freedom that she thinks is going to happen, like something related to preaching the word of God, starting a new church, I don't know, not going on Dancing with the Stars.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
but she really you know believes it now maybe the most upsetting thing from this entire interview is that pretty much from the very moment that she sat down she just continued to paint a very elaborate picture of her daughter ty lee who by the way was 16 at the time of her murder killing JJ, who, remember, was only seven years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And then she says after Tylee killed JJ, she killed herself, which this isn't exactly new news, she's been saying this, but the fact that she is still sticking with this story is not only insane to me, but so cruel. You are desecrating your daughter's memory.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
by painting her as a murderer and then saying she took her own life out of guilt because of it it's like you can't even let them rest in peace you psychotic fucking bitch like now you're trying to ruin their memory it's so evil and as a mother which you can't even call her a mother at this point right but like i'm not expecting her to have remorse for what she did because i truly think she is evil through and through and i think she believes a lot of this weirdo stuff that she's peddling
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But I'm not even asking her to have remorse. I'm just asking her to shut the fuck up. And I'm sorry that I'm cussing a lot, guys. I know sometimes that happens and I just get carried away. But it's like, just shut up. Stop talking. Nobody wants to hear from you. Zip your mouth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And, like, the fact that you are now going to not only double down on your innocence, but you're going to paint your innocent 16-year-old daughter as the villain, as the murderer of... saying she murdered a seven-year-old. I mean, are you crazy? Or like, do you not have an ounce of humanity or motherly love in you?
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Which I don't even know why I'm getting so worked up because obviously the answer is no, right? Obviously not. There's just no respect whatsoever to her deceased children. It is absolutely sickening. And it's just so heartbreaking that even in their deaths, even with both Chad and Lori in prison and Chad getting the death penalty, These kids just cannot rest in peace.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
which is what I'm calling it and what my opinion is on it, this act that he's putting on, I'm not buying it for a second. I think he is still like a little puppy dog devoted to Ruby. He's waiting for her to be released. I think he's going to allow her around the children as soon as she is released. I think that he's making up excuses along the way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But remember, to Lori, those kids still were the ones who were the problem in all of this. They were the zombies. They were the dark spirits. They were the ones who Lori and Chad perceived as threats.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Keith Morrison described the entire interview like this, and I think it gives a pretty good idea of how it went down for those of you who may not want to sit down and watch the entire thing, but here's what he said. And this is a direct quote. The authorities and the police who investigated this know for a fact that this is not possibly true. For one thing, they died two weeks apart.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So I tried to get her off that narrative and onto some of the issues, some of the things that they knew happened, but she wasn't going there. So it was a very interesting little tennis match that we had, which I'm just thankful that Keith wasn't going to let her fully spew all of her bull because...
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Even though she didn't really seem to care what his opinion was of her or how she was acting, even what the public's opinion is of her, she just still was spewing all of her BS. But he was doing a great job shutting it down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And to Lori, she says all the people who have these opinions about her, the public judgments, everybody who has this perception of who she really is, she says, well, those people, they don't have the full story. She's just misunderstood. They don't know the real her. Which, again, huge eye roll. So much I can see my brain. And maybe this is a hot take, though.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I'm sure most of you will probably agree with me. But I genuinely don't believe that Lori will ever see the error of her ways or regret what she did. I really think that until the day that she dies, she really will believe that everything that has happened— two dead children, two dead spouses, a brother who died, the public hate, all of it—
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
that it was all a necessary part of this lifetime life plan that she and Chad had planned. How they will just meet again in their next life like they apparently had all those other times before, and that this is just, you know, a tiny little chapter in their story. And what's so wild to me is that prison breaks a lot of people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
How many times do we hear of people finding God and reform and rehabilitation, even though I think a lot of that sometimes is bull too. I think it's performative. But we do know that prison does break a lot of people. But clearly, not Lori. If anything, she just seems even more arrogant and more feisty than before.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And as interesting as this interview was, I'm honestly just ready for her to just fade away into the background of everything. I want her to be held accountable, found guilty of Charles' death, which that is going to be happening in April. And maybe we'll cover that. Let me know if you guys want us to cover that trial. I personally am just so freaking done with Lori dipshit Valo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And again, I know I'm like going off on a tangent right now. You can listen to the deep dive on it. But I really wanted to talk through all of that and give specific examples of why I think he's a liar. And why I think he now is just like cowering in the corner when he could have been a much better father. I truly believe so. So anyway, that released on Monday.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
but I feel like honestly I feel like people she doesn't even deserve for people to know her face or her name but if you want me to cover that I will but I hope after that she just like fades and like disintegrates and goes away and we never have to see her crazy face or crazy voice again so good riddance Lori Vallow now let's talk about this case because I think we might end up doing a deep dive into this case it is
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
awful. And when I say awful, I mean awful in like with my gut to the nth degree. I think that was the expression when I was a kid. But so many of you have been tagging me and DMing me and emailing asking me to cover this. And it's just really, really devastating. And it shows you once again, how predators are using social media as a tool to lure people in to
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
bring in the most vulnerable, the most excited, the most optimistic, and use social media almost as their playground for sinister activity. And let me talk about why I'm saying all of that. So this is a case that's coming out of Florida. And like I said, it's pretty infuriating. So on February 24th, 16-year-old Miranda Corsette was reported missing to the local police.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Miranda was homeschooled and she lived with her grandmother. So right away, the investigators were pretty stumped on what could have led to Miranda's disappearance. It wasn't like she was walking to and from school, maybe had a bus stop situation. It wasn't like there was any weird turmoil in the home happening or family arguments or custodial issues. So they were kind of stumped.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
However, pretty early on in the investigation, a tip did come in from somebody who claimed to have been a witness to a possible kidnapping, even a possible homicide, and they believed that the victim was Miranda. And we don't know a whole lot about this tip so far, but it did turn out to be pretty helpful because an arrest quickly followed this tip.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
35-year-old Steven Gress was charged with first-degree murder in relation to Miranda's case, which To be fair, Stephen was actually already under arrest for a separate incident where he had allegedly pointed a harpoon at somebody and then received a charge for aggravated assault. But here's what the investigators believed happened.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
It's believed that Stephen and his partner, Michelle, met Miranda online. And met, really, I'll be honest, it's not really an accurate term because she was more like lured, 100% lured in my opinion, into trusting these awful people. So saying met, it makes it seem like it was okay or maybe even acceptable from the start, and it definitely wasn't.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, some sources say that it was through a social media app. Others are saying that it was through a dating app. So the exact app that was used is a little bit unknown. But either way, it was online. So after messaging Miranda on Valentine's Day, February 14th, Stephen and Michelle convinced Miranda to let them pick her up from her home and take them back to the place that they shared together.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, not a lot is known about that day, but according to Tampa Bay Times, Miranda apparently went back home that night alive and well. But then, the following day, she went back to their place. This time, though, when she went back, she didn't return home, and things got very ugly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
You can go take a listen to that because like I said, he just not sitting right with me. It ain't Landon for me, Kev. So let's jump into what we have to talk about this week. And I want to start with those updates that I mentioned in the Karen Reed retrial case. Now, a lot of people are probably super familiar with this case because I've been talking about it for quite a while now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Apparently, at some point, the couple accused Miranda of stealing a ring, and I guess this theft or this accusation of theft really set them off, because it's believed that over the course of the next seven days... Miranda was held against her will, and she was tortured continuously.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Finally, sometime between February 20th and February 24th, they believe Miranda was killed, and the details are very, very gruesome. Stephen allegedly put a billiard ball in her mouth, like a pool ball, you know, those big, hard, like, I don't even know, ceramic? What are they even made out of? Those really hard balls.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And he put one of these balls into her mouth, making it nearly impossible for her to breathe. Then he wrapped her face in plastic wrap, which ultimately, between the plastic wrap and the billiard ball in her mouth, it ultimately suffocated and killed her. But he wasn't done, because after that, he dismembered her, and then he dumped her remains in a trash can.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, the really unfortunate thing in all of this is they still haven't recovered her body, and they believe that her body might be in a landfill, which would make the recovery, of course, all that more difficult. So like I said, Stephen was already in police custody, so charging him was easy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
There must have been some pretty good evidence involved, some evidence that they aren't making public and we aren't aware of yet since still no body has been found. but maybe there has been an admission or something on his phone, something like that. Now, his partner, Michelle, who is believed to also be involved in the entire thing, she was listed as a wanted person in all of this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And then last Saturday, she decided, you know, jig was up. She wasn't going to try to hide out, I guess. She wanted to just get it over with, and she ended up turning herself in. I mean, she must have known that she could only run for so long, so she was also charged with first-degree murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And while I don't want to point fingers or be super accusatory, my biggest question is why wasn't she filed as a missing person sooner? She was only 16 years old, so a teen being missing for even a day, in my opinion, should be a huge red flag. And as we know, she was missing for way longer than that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And it kind of reminds me a lot of the Naziah Harris case, which you might be familiar with that case. And if you are, you know that there were lots and lots of questions about potential neglect from her caregiver being involved. Which, I get it. As a teen, we all thought it was so annoying for our parents to check in on us or be mindful of where we were every day, every hour, all the time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But as adults, I think now looking back, we can understand that those things were really essential for our well-being. People take advantage of young, innocent, naive teens, and it happens every single day. And I'll be clear, I don't want to make it sound like her grandma was neglectful at all, because that's a pretty big accusation without knowing a lot of information or backstory.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But I am curious why Miranda wasn't reported sooner or what that exact timeline of events looked like. Maybe because the grandma's older, she didn't notice things or maybe she was too lax. I don't really know. But I just find that whole situation very weird and very concerning. And I'd be curious to know what information comes out there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Now, I mentioned this, I think, already, but this case is still breaking. So I think we will be doing a deep dive into this case and a dedicated episode because there is just so much information on it. So check back for that but I at least wanted to bring it up here because so many of you have been asking me to cover it and I wanted to let you know it is on my radar.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But for those of you who maybe aren't as familiar, let me give you just a quick little debrief on the situation. So in 2022, Karen Reed's boyfriend, former Boston police officer John O'Keefe, was found dead outside of a home on a snowy January night. This was after the couple had gone out with friends for a few drinks. They were then going to go to a house party after at a friend's house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I hear you and we are looking into everything. Now before I get going I do want to give a public service announcement because for any of you who are listening to this or maybe even watching this who live in Orange County.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
we are hiring and while i wish that we could hire and have remote jobs and do all that we've tried it it just unfortunately doesn't work so you do need to be local but we are hiring for an in-house graphic designer somebody who knows our brand can do merch designs who is creative who has all the skills with photoshop with canva with this with that so if you think that that's you and you're interested please send us your resume and portfolio or sample work to hello annielise.com the only thing that i ask is before you do that
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
please go onto our website annieelise.com and double check that how we do our graphics, because it is very niche and it's different than a lot of corporate companies, that that aligns with your skill set.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Because sometimes we're getting some applicants who do more of like the corporate branding where it's just newsletters or texts and we do more of like the actual graphic artwork for like merch and for logos and icons and things like that. So that's one position. We also are looking for a junior producer position. And that also is going to be here in-house in our studio where we have everything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And this is somebody who's going to help us with creating episodes, with working closely with us, with editing skills, things like that. And all of these jobs are listed on LinkedIn as well. But for the junior producer position, we are looking for somebody who is professional.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
familiar with premiere pro final cut da vinci whatever editing software knows how to edit knows how to do effects things like that and somebody who just wants to really work closely with us while i'm in the room picking cases that we are going to be covering while we're talking about a lot of these cases with each other while we're developing episodes while we're working with victims families somebody who just really wants to be part of all that
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So if that sounds like you, you can also send your resume to hello at AnnieElise.com. But again, I'm sorry, locals only. It is in office four days a week just because it's really tough to do all of these things remote. It's way better when we can collaborate in person together. Again, that is hello at AnnieElise.com.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Other than that, if you feel like you guys need more content to binge going into your weekend, we do have a library of deep dive episodes that we give to our Patreons and to our Apple subscribers. There's about 75 of those right now. They're all deep dives into single cases. So you can get access to that either through Apple Podcasts on the app or over on Patreon.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Last week, we covered a group of college students who basically wanted to recreate that TV show series to catch a predator with Chris Hansen. They wanted to do that themselves. So they posed online, they lured somebody in and they all started filming it and like reenacted this whole thing and it ended disastrously. I'll just say that. We also talked about Brian Laundrie a couple episodes ago. And
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
the conspiracies about him possibly still being alive and his parents' involvement. Another one that we have talked about is Chloe Jones. She was unfortunately held captive and tortured for days, and she bravely escaped. You may remember seeing the iconic footage and picture of her
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
coming down from like the was it a crawl space or an attic some in the garage where she had like the big black eyes and she was finally rescued so there are just always so many cases to go over and we don't have enough days in the week to publish all of them so again you can get access to that we put a new one out every single friday and that is through patreon or apple podcasts
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Karen didn't end up attending. It was just going to be John. So She dropped him off, she turned around in the car, and then she went back home to their shared home where they were, or maybe it was just his home, I can't remember. But anyway, she didn't stay at the party. So then when people came out of the house the next morning, they found him dead in the snow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
other than that guys that is all we've got for today's episode of headline highlights thank you for tuning in i will be back on the mic with you on monday with a deep dive into a very very important case one that is close to my heart you may have seen it go viral on tick tock a couple of weeks ago i am joined in studio with a very special guest regarding this case so check back monday for that one
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
All right, guys. Thanks again. And until the next one, stay safe. Be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults. And please, please, please stop giving Lori Vallow airtime. She lives ramp free in my head. All right. Bye, guys.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
It was alleged by friends and the prosecution that Karen hit him with the SUV that she was driving and then left him there to die. And even though it sounds pretty clear-cut, it really isn't. Because I would say that the public's opinion on whether or not she's guilty... is still pretty 50-50.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
A lot of people think that, yes, she must have just been drunk, she had a lot to drink, she hit him and then drove away, but then a lot of people, especially the sleuths online, they've been looking at it being like, well, no, due to his height and the damage on the taillight, it wouldn't, like... the impact wouldn't have been the way it was.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
People are saying that there was a fight that actually happened inside the house at the house party that night and that those people are the ones responsible for killing John O'Keefe. And then now they're pitting the blame on Karen.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And the reason they are saying that, too, is there's text message timestamps that come into question where there were apparently Google searches from one of the partygoers' phones at 2.30 in the Things like that. There's also been, I'll just say it, a lot of corruption going on with people who are involved in this case.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Not only law enforcement officers and officials, but it just does not smell right at all. And people are torn on this. And if you want to hear the deep dive, I will link it because we have done so many episodes on this case. But it is a very... It's a very complex case and one that I do feel like a lot of people are divided on. I personally don't even quite know which way I'm leaning.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Actually, I take that back, I do. I think that it's probably more than likely Actually, no, I'm not going to say that because that's going to just cause a lot of trauma. So maybe I'll share my opinion after the trial, the retrial, I should say, happens. But anyway, so last year, Karen went to trial for the first time.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And instead of being found guilty or non-guilty, the entire thing ended in a hung jury. meaning that the jurors could not reach a unanimous decision and it was declared a mistrial.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So her second trial is now set to begin in just a few weeks, April 1st to be exact, and her team has seriously been working overtime on this case because Karen's defense team recently filed a motion to dismiss the entire case, arguing that the prosecution had purposefully withheld critical evidence during the trial, and therefore, because of that, they violated her right to a fair trial.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
We have to, of course, talk about the just like batshit crazy interview that Lori Palow did on Dateline. I watched the entire thing and it was honestly painful. It Y'all know how I feel about Lori Vallow. We also are going to talk about a new case that is breaking where this young teen girl was lured on social media by these disgusting freaks. She ended up being found dismembered.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So what does all this mean exactly? Let me break it down. Her defense team is mainly stuck on video evidence in this case particular, because as we know, the prosecution is claiming that she hit John with the SUV, and that in the process, the taillight was shattered, which I briefly mentioned.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And I will say, he was a pretty big man, so it would definitely make sense that if she hit him with the SUV, there probably would be some damage. But her defense team argues that the taillight was cracked.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
not shattered and that after the investigators took it to the station they're the ones who shattered it before then taking some pieces and leaving them back at the crime scene and trying to like stage the entire scene basically arguing that this whole thing was a setup and there is one really big thing that could very well be what convinces a jury of her possible innocence in all of this
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Because apparently the prosecution failed to provide the first 42 minutes of the SUV being at that station in their custody. That would have shown and proved how the taillight was when it arrived and how it was after the fact. But those 42 minutes of footage are apparently not provided. Just, you know, hidden, so to speak.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So the motion wrote that the missing part of the video when the SUV first arrived is, quote, the most critical and highly contested issue in this case. And honestly, I gotta just be honest, you know, I have to agree.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
I mean, whether or not the taillight was cracked or shattered when it arrived, it could definitely convince me one way or another, or at least, at the bare minimum, create reasonable doubt. And I think that that would be pretty similar for any jury members as well. And my thing is, if what the prosecution is arguing is true... then why not provide that part of the video?
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Why not be fully transparent? It would clear up a lot of things, and it would really make it seem as if everything that the defense is trying to grasp at is just like straws, thin air. I think that it would help the prosecution's case. Unless, of course, there really is something to hide. So like I said, it's pretty 50-50 on whether or not people think Karen is guilty or innocent.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But just recently, one of the jurors from her first trial ended up coming forward, and they alleged that during her first trial, the juror's opinions on that matter, whether she's guilty or innocent, wasn't quite as polarizing as the headlines would have had you believe. Take a listen.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
There have now been two arrests. The story is just absolutely horrible. appalling there's been updates in the gene hackman case and the cause of death and some interesting things there we also have updates in the karen reed retrial and the motion to dismiss a juror also is coming forward another one speaking out so we have got a lot to go over today
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So regardless of where you stand on Karen's guilt or innocence, I think that we can all agree that this trial has pretty much been a complete mess from the very beginning. If the motion to dismiss is denied, we will be seeing the trial, the retrial, begin in just a few weeks, which I, for one, am on the edge of my seat with how all of this is going to play out because it's very divided out there.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And I'm going to probably misquote this exactly because it's been quite a few months, but
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
even when the hung jury and mistrial situation happened for the first trial other jurors had come forward at that point too saying that they unanimously had agreed that she was not guilty of the murder charge or one of the degrees of murder you know again don't quote me here but because of the way that the verdict had to be written or decided on it was all lumped together it wasn't separated
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So that is like the technicality of how there's even a retrial here happening. Because a lot of the jurors are like, well, no, we may have found her guilty on some of the other charges. Again, I can't cite them exactly at this moment. But on the murder charge, we all agreed that she was not guilty. But that doesn't matter because it's all lumped together and she now has to go to a retrial.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And a lot of people think it's a waste of time, resources, money, all of those things. So we will see what happens with Karen Reed. Now, this next case is taking us all the way over across the pond. And I got to say, it is a case that is just insanely heartbreaking, especially as a mom. It just hits even harder, I think, when I read about it, when I researched it and knowing the details of it.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
And also, don't think that I've been sleeping on these Idaho updates coming out because now we have the 911 call. We also have the text that happened that night. I have a lot to say about that, but I'm going to do that on a totally different episode, like a full episode dedicated to that because there is a lot to talk about in what's going on with the Idaho case.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But let's go over to England for a moment, because on Wednesday, March 5th, A very panicked call came into 911 around 4.58 p.m. The caller was stating that a car had driven onto a soccer field that was full of kids playing soccer, which that in and of itself is already such a terrifying thought, right?
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But this caller also told the operator that the car had hit at least two young children who were on the field. So it's basically 5 p.m. All of these kids have been in school all day long, just waiting to be able to run around, see their friends, go to practice, you know, looking forward to their game, just trying to have fun. And then this horrific tragedy occurred.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So the authorities rushed to the scene where they found a 40-year-old man behind the wheel of a black BMW i4. And for whatever reason, I don't know exactly why, but this man's name hasn't been released yet.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
But in light of some of the scarier things that have happened recently in the world, like the New Year's Day truck attack in New Orleans, the authorities have clarified in the press that they do not believe that this was a purposeful attack.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
So sadly, the caller was correct in thinking that two kids were hit, because one of the kids who was hit was only 10 years old, and they were sadly killed as a result of the crash.
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
We don't know yet the name of this kid or even the gender, but the second kid, who has been reported as an 8-year-old little girl, was also hit, and she was taken to the hospital, and thankfully was cleared of having any life-threatening injuries. The man behind the wheel was arrested on what the press release called, quote, "...suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving."
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251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
Which I'm definitely curious to know more about this case, especially what this guy ends up saying was the cause of all of this, if he does even talk at all. I mean, was he drunk? Was he under the influence? Was he just being reckless? Was he texting? Like, what was really going on here if it was not intentional?
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So needless to say, stealing somebody's mail was definitely not the easiest crime to pull off like they thought that it would be. I mean, again, not the biggest crime out there that we've talked about, but I just thought that it was really interesting because I didn't even know.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
I know people steal packages and I know they do things like that, but I didn't know that people will still steal actual letter envelopes. I mean, I know for identity theft and all of those things, yes, but like, and maybe that was the goal in all this to just like have heaps of mail and steal a bunch of people's identities. I don't really even know, but I just thought it was interesting.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So I wanted to mention it. Now let's talk about this case because this is crazy town because a man's paranormal meter that he had, which I didn't even know a lot of people own these, but apparently they do, it apparently scared him into killing his girlfriend. So a few weeks ago, we talked about the Slender Man stabbings and how crazy all of that was in general.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And this next case kind of reminds me a lot of that. Now, being in the true crime world, you hear a lot about motives and excuses and different things for reasonings for crimes. But it's pretty rare that a mythical creature or even the paranormal is the reason for committing a gruesome murder. Yet, here we are. Now, this case originally took place on January 3rd.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
However, it wasn't until more recently when there was a hearing that it really started hitting the major news outlets and getting major headlines. So on January 3rd, 46-year-old Jared Wolfe shot and killed his girlfriend, 46-year-old Jane White. But like I said, his reasoning was way more out there than what we typically hear of.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
There were no cheating allegations, no intense breakups gone wrong, no love triangle, nothing like that. See, that night, Jared and Jane went over to a mutual friend's house. They just were going to go have a casual hangout sesh. Now, at some point, Jared began smoking what he at first claimed was marijuana, but later admitted that he wasn't sure what it was.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So after getting high, Jared, his friends, and Jane all decided that they wanted to kind of whip out his paranormal meter. Maybe check for ghosts, check for, I don't know what else it would be, like paranormal activity, but they thought that that would be fun to do.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now, I'm just assuming that it was maybe like an EMF reader or something like that, kind of meters that people use when they're actually ghost hunting, but whatever it was, Jared put the reader up to a statue that was inside his friend's house, and apparently this reader not only went off, but it was as high as it could possibly go.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
But instead of thinking that, okay, the statue was haunted, or maybe even the house that they were at was haunted, Somehow he came to the conclusion that somebody in that room must be trying to kill him and even worse, eat him. Now that is a sentence I definitely never thought that I would be saying on here.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Like somebody's using their paranormal reader and thinks that somebody's not only trying to kill them, but eat them as well. That being said, I also highly doubt that they were just smoking weed. I would imagine that there was something else laced in there. So after scanning all this, in a complete panic, Jared went outside.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Then when he was outside, he grabbed his gun and started heading back inside, just really trying to prepare and defend himself against this friend or girlfriend that was now a murderous cannibal who was after him. And somehow during all of this, his girlfriend Jane ended up outside. Now, I would assume it was to check on Jared after he had stormed out.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And not just like random strangers or friends, not that that would make it any better, obviously, but his parents. and a year and a half apart, killed his father, allegedly. It was self-defense, as he was saying. Then a year and a half later, killed his mother in self-defense. Yet both circumstances were extremely similar in the sense that he claims they were both chasing him with a knife.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
But unfortunately, when she went out to check on him, that's when he shot her in the chest. By the time someone called the paramedics and they arrived, Jane had already died. Now, the reason that this case is just now being talked about is because on February 5th, a hearing in the case was held and it was wild.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
I mean, the hearing pretty much was to confirm that Jared would in fact stand trial because he's being charged with seven different things overall. I mean, ranging from first-degree murder to third-degree murder, even two counts of aggravated assault. Now, since it's all so fresh, there isn't a trial date that has been announced yet.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
But people are wondering what his defense will be, what exactly he's going to say. Is there any ring camera footage? Is there cell phone footage? What were they smoking? Will her autopsy show anything? Like, is there something below the surface here? Or was he just incredibly high, whether it was laced with... I don't know, meth, fentanyl, things like that.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And then his mind just got the best of him and he thought that his girlfriend was going to kill him and eat him. I don't know. This is why I say, guys, don't do drugs. Just don't do it. It's not worth it. You don't know what's laced with what these days. Just don't do it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
get high on life okay all right now this is another case of a monster parent and I don't know I really wasn't sure if I was going to talk about this one because it is really difficult especially as a parent but we always say the reason we talk about them despite how difficult they are is because it's very important to have the awareness it's important to let their voices continue to be heard and I just want to warn you this next case is extremely hard to hear so huge trigger warning
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So just recently, on February 4th, 2025, 29-year-old Dania Young of Seattle was charged with second-degree murder. This was in the death of her 14-year-old son, and the charge stemmed after an incident that took place back on January 30th. Her 14-year-old son's name was Jameer Robinson. Now, 14-year-old Jameer's cause of death was multiple blunt force trauma.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
It was reported that he also suffered from something called sudden inflammatory response syndrome. And if you're like me, you may not have ever heard of that before. You may not even know what the heck it means, but...
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Apparently, this is when blood is sent to so many different parts of the body, all in an attempt to heal them, that there isn't enough blood left to properly keep the heart pumping and running as it should. So basically, think of that.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
If you have injuries on your hands, your fingers, your toes, your feet, your legs, and all of your blood from your heart is pumping to those places, trying to heal them, trying to repair them, then there's no blood left in your heart to keep it pumping. And that's what this is. That's what sudden inflammatory response syndrome means.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now, this response in his body came after his mother apparently brutally beat him with an extension cord after he allegedly didn't do some chores that she had asked him to do. As you can imagine, she didn't just hit him once, twice, or even three times, but his autopsy report showed that he had 1172 marks on his body.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
i don't think that i've ever heard of a case that has been this brutal or with that many injuries found to a body it is honestly it's just it's hard to even calculate that in your mind and envision it all and with an extension cord i would just imagine that it was continuous whippings after whippings after whippings and this wasn't just some crazy spur of the moment overkill over beating type of situation
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
He also claimed that they were trying to kill him, yet between the gap of when his father died and his mother was killed, or I should say his mother died, that he was telling people that he didn't want to go live with his mother and he didn't want to go home because he would, quote, kill her if he did. It's unbelievable. So you got to go listen if you haven't yet. It is a wild ride.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
because 74 of the injuries were either on his head or face, and 10 to 20 of them were in various stages of healing. So this, of course, indicated that a lot of these injuries were already there before he was attacked this most recent time.
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And even after he stopped yelling for help, stopped moving altogether, stopped fighting back, his mother just continued hitting him until she literally couldn't anymore. His mother even told the investigators that she, quote, lost count of how many times she hit him, which I can imagine after about 100 of those things, 100 hits, you probably would lose count, right? And, I mean, think of that.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
How long does that take someone? If you were taking a cord and hitting a pillow up and down just over and over, how long would it take to get to 1,172?
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quite some time right and in fact it was a long time because this whole thing happened over the span of three hours now the saddest part is that he passed away not long after the medics transported him to the local hospital so he was alive for the majority of this beating and it's so heartbreaking to wonder if possibly if she would have stopped earlier than she had Could he still be alive?
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Probably. He hung on so long. But instead, she decided for whatever reason, whatever sick and twisted reason, that she was going to continue for three hours straight, never lessening the brutal beating until he was finally no longer conscious and just really barely hanging on by a thread. Now, not surprisingly, this wasn't the first time that she had laid hands on him either.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
She claimed to have started hurting him all the way back last November. This was after he came to visit her and was never returned to his sister, who was his legal guardian. So he shouldn't have even been in her home to begin with. And what's maybe worse, if that's even possible, is that her husband, who also is his stepdad, was at the home the entire time.
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He no doubt heard him begging for his life, begging for his mom to stop, his wife to stop. And not only that, but he had physically seen her beat him several times in the past. He knew that these kinds of things were happening, yet he never intervened. He never stepped in and tried to help this 14-year-old little boy who, again, by the way, should never have been in her possession.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So when the investigators asked him why he never stepped in or why he never called the authorities, he simply said, "...my best bet is to mind my own business." In fact, the only time he ever stepped in was that final day when he found her in a complete panic, yelling that she finally had gone too far this time, that her son wasn't waking up. That's the only reason that he decided to call 911.
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Not because he had witnessed these things, not because he knew what was happening to this innocent boy in the home, but because now his wife was in a panic because she was screaming, you know, I've gone too far, I've gone too far, I don't know what to do. So that is what prompted him to make the call. It is so sick and so disgusting.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So thankfully this monster mother's bail has been set to $3 million which she has not been able to post. Her next hearing is set for this week so I guess we'll see if there are any notable updates to come back to in this case to revisit it. I don't really have any information on whether or not the stepdad was arrested either but I really do hope that
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He was, he was charged with like neglect, enabling something because every part of me believes he was equally involved. He could have either stopped it at any point, perhaps in past moments he participated, but for him to just get off scot-free does not sit right with me. So we'll follow this and I'll see what comes out of it.
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Now, before we get into any other cases, we are going to take a quick break here from today's sponsors. And as always, thank you guys for understanding that sponsors are what keeps this podcast free. Okay, so real talk here. I have spent so much money on skincare, on hair products, just all these things over the years trying to fix my dry skin, my frizzy hair, my breakouts, you name it.
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Now, let me move my mic. Sorry, it's kind of off to the side. Okay, so today, like I said, we're going through all of the headlines and we're talking about what's been happening more at a high level this week. And so one of the main things that we're going to discuss is Megan Boswell. She is currently standing trial for the murder of her 15-month-old daughter, Evelyn Boswell, from back in 2020.
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But then it hit me, and I saw it all over my TikTok feed, so I'll thank TikTok for that, but it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was completely ignoring the actual root cause, which was of course the water that I was showering in. We all know how important it is to filter the water we drink, right? Whether you use a Brito, whether you have the machine, whether you drink alkaline, whatever it is.
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But why don't we think the same way about our shower water? Because that's what's going into our body, onto our body. Well, that's where Jolie comes in. It's a filtered showerhead that removes chlorine and heavy metals. So basically all the stuff that is secretly messing with our skin and our hair. And let me just tell you, when I installed Jolie, it was so easy to do.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
You just literally replace your shower head with this one. It totally changed my skin. It was way less dry. My hair was less frizzy and coarse feeling. There was less shedding. And I feel like my blonde actually stays blonde and doesn't get all like yellow and brassy. Plus, it's the only clinically tested filtering shower head that's out there.
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and it still has amazing water pressure, and it looks super sleek. I mean, the design looks super modern, super nice. It's not ugly. It's not some big eyesore. So it's really a win-win. You've probably seen it on your social media feeds too, but I finally tried it, and I'm here to tell you it works, and it is the best.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So if you're tired of spending a fortune on products just to fight the damage that your shower water is actually causing, this is your fix. Jolie will give you your best skin and hair guaranteed. Head to JolieSkinCo.com to try it out with free shipping. And guess what? If you don't love it, you can return it within 60 days for a full refund. No questions asked.
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But trust me, you're not going to want to send this back. You are going to love it. All right, guys, I've talked to you about this before, but I feel like I have to tell you again about my Helix mattress because I genuinely don't know how I ever slept without it. My bed feels like a literal moon cloud.
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Aside from tossing and turning all night, I used to wake up with like weird hip pain and weird back pain because I'm a side sleeper. I also would get too hot. I just like, it wasn't the best. And don't even get me started on when I tracked my sleep on the Oura Ring because my recovery scores, not my actual sleep scores, but my recovery scores were like in the garbage.
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But then I tried Helix and the reason I tried Helix was because it ships so easy in a box and it seemed like it was just like, you know, a no brainer for me. I like things easy. I like things seamless. It wasn't even necessarily about the mattress, although I heard that they were really good. But then when I unboxed it and put that mattress down. It literally changed my life.
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And get this, I think I told you guys before, my mom sometimes will spend the night when she's helping me out with the kids. And she recently spent the night in my bed a couple months ago. And she loved it so much. She's like, oh my gosh, your bed is so comfortable. It's so soft. It's so like fluffy. What is it? And I told her, I was like, oh, it's my Helix mattress. It's this new mattress I got.
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And it has like this like pillow top thing. It's the best. She loved it. So I decided to surprise her with a Helix as well. And she is
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
so so happy and she was like bragging to my brother and my sister about it obviously I'm the best sibling um no but then I told them I was like you guys got to come over too like I'm gonna get everybody hooked on this mattress it literally feels like a moon cloud and the best part about all of it is that Helix mattresses are all personalized to you you take a quick quiz it matches you to the perfect mattress based on how you sleep there's no guessing there's no wrong choices it's so easy and
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And I touched on it a little bit last week, but this chick is a lunatic, okay? She makes Casey Anthony not look like a saint, but actually kind of makes her look like her long-lost sister, if I'm being honest, because they had very similar stories when it all went down. She's with the nannies, Annie the nanny, I was here, it was this person, my mom, my parents did it all, you know, you name it.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And it just works. So if you've been thinking about upgrading your sleep, now is the time. Helix is doing their biggest President's Day sale ever, which you'll get 27% off site-wide plus two free Dream Pillows with your mattress purchase. And if you get a Luxe or an Elite mattress, you also get a free bedding bundle. So two Dream Pillows, a sheet set, and a mattress protector. So don't wait.
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This is exclusive for my listeners and it's better than what you'll find on the site. So go to helixsleep.com slash serialously for the best deal ever. Again, that's helixsleep.com slash serialously. Your best sleep ever is literally one click away, my friends.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Okay, so now we're going to get into this next case that is so bizarre because it's about twins who literally switched places at the scene of a crime. Now, as someone who is very close with her sister, I can confidently say that there's definitely a lot of things that I would do for her. However...
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
there is a pretty fine line between the things that I would do for her and apparently what some other people would do for their siblings, which, sorry, Amy, if you're listening, I'll do anything for you, but not this. Because one thing I'm not going to do is trade places with her at a crime scene, let alone one that ended in the death of two young kids. I mean... You're on your own there, sister.
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Figure it out yourself. But like I said, apparently I'm like the outlier with that option because this case originally happened in September of 2023. And the two people involved were charged around this time last year in February of 2024. But just recently, though, we're seeing a plea deal in the case.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So let's go a bit more into what exactly happened and why this case is being brought back up now in 2025. So on September 25th, 2023, a woman named Samantha Peterson crashed her SUV into this horse-drawn buggy of an Amish family that was heading to school that morning. Samantha was intoxicated, which led to her not seeing that buggy and then crashing into it.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
But this crash wasn't just a little bump or fender bender. It was really bad. Two members of this family, the Miller family, were only 7 and 11 years old, and they both passed away as a result of the crash. One of the horses carrying the buggy also died from its injuries. So, I mean, this was pretty severe.
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That was really, like, I don't want to say, what, a lot of pressure, but, like, high impact to kill a horse? I mean, come on. Now, instead of taking ownership and accountability, Samantha called her identical twin sister, Sarah. Not for support, not for advice, not to, like, figure out what to do. but rather to take the fall for it. Now, for whatever reason, Sarah did just that.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now, I don't know if they really didn't think that anybody would catch on, but they obviously did. And maybe she only agreed to take the blame because she at the time didn't have any clue that two young kids had passed away. Maybe she thought she was just helping her sister get out of getting a DUI charge. Maybe that's what she thought she was helping with.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
But even though they tried to be sneaky, witnesses at the scene immediately noticed the different clothing that each woman was wearing. That was the biggest sign that something really fishy was going on. Now, of course, there's much more to this case, but I'm trying to keep it short and simple.
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But the irony of the whole case is that Samantha really convinced her sister to take the fall so that she wouldn't go to jail. And in the end, both of them ended up in jail. So like I said, this time last year, they both ended up being charged. Samantha, the sister who actually hit the family, was charged with 21 different counts. Two days later, Sarah was charged with 16 different counts.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now let's get into the whole reason why I'm even talking about this case today, because I know it happened back in 2023. But last Tuesday, Sarah did what was probably the smartest thing she could have done, and she took a plea deal.
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She ripped the play right out of Casey Anthony's handbook. And she gave very disturbing interviews when her daughter was missing. I mean, not just disturbing in the sense that she was smiling and kind of smirking throughout them, but also disturbing in the sense that she would, in these interviews, say, well, I know she's missing, but I know who has her. I know exactly who has her.
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Now, the deal seems like a no-brainer to me because in exchange for simply admitting that she took the fall for her sister and that Samantha had begged her that day to say that she was the driver, she only is going to face four years of probation and potentially six months in jail. And this is all because in exchange for that deal, 14 of the 16 counts against her are being dropped.
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Now, although her deal hasn't been formally accepted by a judge, it is scheduled to be accepted on March 31st. And then after that, the sentencing will be held. So I'm not sure whether or not she will get any credit for any time served. I mean, I guess we'll have to wait and see about that for another month or so. I don't know. But as for Samantha, she's still very much on the chopping block.
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Now, many of her charges have been dropped since last year, so the only current charges against her are criminal vehicular homicide, felony criminal operation, driving while impaired, and careless driving, which I say that like, oh, the only charges against her, but that's obviously a lot, and those are obviously very severe.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
But her trial is currently set for July 17th, which will honestly kind of fly by, and it'll be here before we know it. Thank you. Thank you for watching. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. you know I'm going to show you how to do it. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
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And if police aren't going to do their job and go get my daughter, then I'm going to go get her myself. And so the news anchors and the reporters were kind of had their jaw on the floor like, wait, what are you talking about? You know where your daughter is? And then go get her. Or why haven't the police? It's a wild ride. So all to say that she is currently on trial.
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It has been a long awaited several years. So we're going to go through the trial updates because there have been hours and hours and hours of testimony. And I know you don't have time for all that. So I'm here to give you the recap. We also are going to talk about this stolen mail heist, and mail, M-A-I-L, not M-A-L-E. Just want to clarify that.
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Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to show you how to do it.
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But we're going to talk about a stolen mail heist that turned into a 23-mile car chase. Another case we'll be discussing is a man who killed his girlfriend while he was high because, get this, he thought that his girlfriend was going to eat him. Mm-hmm. I know you're probably like well did I hear that right Annie?
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Yeah he thought his girlfriend was going to eat him while he was high so he decided to kill her like that was going to solve the problem. Then we are going to talk about another monster parent in Seattle and what's going on with that situation.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
We also are going to talk about a set of identical twins who literally switched places at a crime scene and the why behind it all is very fascinating and we're going to talk about some updates with some people we've talked about before who have now been charged with murder and we got a lot to talk about.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. You know what time it is. It is Thursday. So that means it is headline highlights, where we are going to break down everything that's going on in the true crime world this week together. And unfortunately, there is no shortage.
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So I'm going to stop talking about what we're going to talk about and I'm just going to talk about what we're going to talk about. So let's start with Megan Boswell. So like I said, this first case is what a lot of you have been waiting for and it's regarding the updates in who I have dubbed the Casey Anthony 2.0 Megan Boswell.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now by the time this episode comes out there will already have been multiple days worth of testimony so what I'm going to try to do is really include the biggest takeaways and the updates in the case but it's definitely going to be more of a shortened version just giving you the high level overview. So the
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Trial really started off with a bang because right away, the prosecution showed over 35 pictures of Evelyn's body. This is her 15-month-old daughter who was killed. And these pictures that they showed were specifically from the day that she was found. And as I briefly touched on this last week, the way that she was found was like beyond disturbing.
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I mean, the use of that word doesn't even do it justice because Evelyn's body was found wrapped with aluminum foil around her head, stuffed in a trash can, and shoved so hard and disposed of in such a way that her back of her head was touching the upper part of her back, if you can understand what I'm talking about. Like fully contorted.
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Imagine raising your head upright out of the sky and just continuing to go all the way until the back of your head touches your back. I mean...
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it's freaking foul now as these pictures were being shown Megan was seen and heard crying the entire time though I'm not very sure if anyone actually felt sorry for her I know I don't but she was definitely putting on this performance of you know this grieving mother
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So it seemed like it started off really strong, but then there was a huge, I'll just call it like a whoopsie on the prosecution's end of things. It all started when the mother of one of Megan's exes, Erica Stanley, was on the stand testifying.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now, at one point, Erica was shown what was supposed to be screenshots between herself and Megan from a text thread dating back all the way to January 8th, 2020. Which, okay, no big deal, right? Well, the problem was that the text messages that were shown were altered. And her defense team clocked it right away, and because of that, they started asking for a mistrial.
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Now that might have sounded a little bit confusing, but basically, her team argued that what was shown to the jury was a note of the communications rather than actual screenshots of the text messages.
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So from what I'm gathering, and if there are any attorneys out there listening, feel free to correct me and tell me if I'm wrong, it's not that that wasn't allowed, although I would think that screenshots would definitely be more accurate and informative.
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But apparently it was the fact that everybody, including her own defense team, thought that it was in fact screenshots of the text thread at first, not just notes on the communication. So the fact that it wasn't made clear that it wasn't a screenshot seemed to be the issue that the defense was taking. And like I said, that's just my interpretation from what the defense was saying.
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I could be wrong about that. But it seemed like even in that last clip that that was a big aspect of why they weren't okay with it. Now, the state attorney general admitted during all of this back and forth that, yeah, what was shown was not an actual screenshot, but the only thing that was changed was the appearance of how it was presented to the court.
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And they even went further to just classify it as simply a, quote, human error. So luckily, despite all of this, the judge kind of said like, nope, we're not doing a mistrial. We're not going to do that at all. But he did warn the prosecution about any other slip ups.
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And he also even clarified to the jury what to expect when shown these messages so that they aren't led to believe something that it isn't just in case.
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Now, he can only defend those things for so long. And even if it was all human error, as they were chalking it up to be, this is still a very big case. I mean, whether or not the public or even myself believes that she's guilty, that doesn't mean that she doesn't get a fair trial where everybody's entitled to a fair trial.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So I would imagine that her defense team is even more ready than before to call out even the slightest of errors just to get a mistrial, to hope for a mistrial. So I just pray that there are no more mistakes made. Now, there have already been many testimonies from law enforcement agencies to friends of Megan's, family members, and so on and so forth.
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And we'd honestly be here all day if we went through each and every one of them. Now, the majority of the testimonies from Megan's family members or friends all had to do with her strange behaviors when Evelyn happened. had disappeared.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
After she was reported missing, Megan was just acting not only bizarre in her behavior and how she was acting, what she was saying, but also her weird excuses for where Evelyn was whenever she was asked. Like I said earlier, at one point, even to a reporter on an interview that was being recorded, she said, I know exactly who has Evelyn.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
There are new cases. There are updates to cases. There are some, honestly, twisted and insane cases, like, truthfully, through and through. So we're going to be together for a minute, but we have got a lot to go over. Now, as a reminder, if you have not listened to Monday's deep dive yet, you got to go back and listen, OK? Because this case was so twisted and diabolical.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And if the police don't do their job, I'm going to go do it for them. So everybody who was testifying that was close to Megan was basically saying like, yeah, she was exhibiting some really odd behavior and weird excuses during the time that Evelyn was reported missing. And that was really concerning across the board.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And one thing that I do want to make sure I mention is that this past Saturday, the jurors were also shown the infamous 2020 interview between Megan and the Sullivan County Police Department. Now, this interview specifically was when Megan had finally admitted that Evelyn was dead, and not just that, but that she knew that she was dead, and this was long before the body was even found.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
Now, there was some back and forth during the pretrial, because her defense team had argued that they wanted to be able to cross-examine an investigator regarding the clips that were to be played for the jurors, and ultimately the judge ruled that it was allowed.
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Her defense team's argument for the cross-examination had been that this would better show Megan's side of the story to the jurors, and I'll be honest, I don't know exactly if that really worked out in their favor, but I guess that's for the jurors to end up deciding, not me, but it seems a little bit murky.
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And the reason I say that it's murky is because I don't really know what Megan's team or Megan herself can come up with to try to combat what they were seeing, the jury was seeing in those clips. I mean, she was clearly saying she knew that her daughter was dead. This was long before the body was found.
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So how the defense is saying, well, wait, we want to cross examine because we want to come at it from Megan's point of view. What other point of view is there, right? I mean, it's pretty clear what she said. It's pretty clear how she acted on all of these different pieces of interview footage out there. So like I said, this was just a very quick update in what's been going on in the trial.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
There have been hours and hours worth of testimony so far, but I just wanted to mention the really big takeaways and what's been going on this past week or so. And if you do want to get caught up with the full case because you aren't familiar or you haven't been following, I will link that episode once again in the show notes so that you can get fully caught up to speed.
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I'm personally just, it's been years, so I am so ready to see baby Evelyn get justice, the justice that she deserves, because it's just so similar again to Casey Anthony. And you guys know my fucking loathing and disdain for Casey Anthony.
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And I really hope that the main difference in these two cases, although they are so similar, is that Evelyn actually gets justice where little Kaylee never got it. So I guess we're just going to have to hope and pray that the jury gets this one right, which, my opinion, if I was on the jury, guilty. Now let's move into this next case.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
It's about the stolen mail scheme that turned into like this wild 23-mile car chase.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
so this one that i wanted to go over i decided to talk with you about it because it honestly doesn't even sound real i mean when you think of car chases you probably think of scenes in movies where somebody just robbed a bank or maybe held people hostage or just something big and really dramatic right well this case began when three people decided that stealing people's mail would just be an easy crime for them to do you know you just swing by people's mailboxes
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grab whatever is in there, and then you like dip out. And hopefully you get something good, whether it's a check or something to do with tax season, I don't really know. Now, at least that's what these people imagined.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
And these three suspects who were later identified as 42-year-old Yervu, 35-year-old Amanda Lazaria, and 30-year-old Sombat Yang, they had managed to steal mail from over 100 different addresses in Clovis, California. So at around 3.30 a.m. on February 5th, they were all out driving around, the three of them, with this stolen mail in the car, just kind of like cruising without a worry in sight.
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But then a local officer noticed that the vehicle and something about it kind of stood out as being a little bit suspicious. I don't know exactly the details there. But for whatever reason, they turned on their lights and sirens and they decided to pull them over to do a quick check just to make sure everything was okay.
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I didn't think that I was going to cover it at all. But then the verdict happened just a couple of weeks ago and not even a couple weeks ago now, like a week ago. And my jaw was on the floor. I cannot believe that this is what the jury came back with. And so I knew I needed to do a deep dive into the case. But it's basically this 17-year-old kid who seemingly has gotten away with murder twice.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
However, given that they had a car full of stolen mail, they decided they weren't going to pull over. So instead, they ended up on a 23-mile car chase. Now, the only thing that managed to stop them was when the highway patrol threw out spikes in front of them to pop their tires.
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241: Twin Sisters Switch Places At Crime Scene, Megan Boswell Mistrial? & BF Shoots GF Thinking She is Going to Eat Him
So once their tires were popped and they all three realized that, you know, continuing to drive away was not going to be an option, they all attempted to run on foot. Ha! as though that was going to work. As you can imagine, they were quickly caught. So they were arrested and they were charged with mail theft, possession of stolen property, burglary tools, and last but not least, conspiracy.
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I'm waiting on a few details, but we have been in touch with Karen's family and apparently it's such a small courtroom that you can't get in like a regular trial. The only way you can get a seat is it's very selective and you have to like get in with a family member or somebody who's a part of the trial. And so we may be going with Karen's family and covering the trial. So stay tuned for that.
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It just, it really irks me. Now let's move into this next case with this 17-year-old teenager who has been charged with killing their parents. Nikita Kasep, a 17-year-old from Waukesha, Wisconsin, has now been charged with killing his 35-year-old mother and his 51-year-old stepfather.
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Now, we don't really know many of the details that led up to the murders, but apparently these murders happened on February 11th. Then, Nikita allegedly lived with his parents, rotting corpses for two entire weeks. Apparently, he kept their bodies right where he had shot and killed them too. Didn't bother moving them, didn't try to hide them, just lived with them as if life was going on as usual.
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Police said that they also found a camera memory card that contained a video of Nikita lighting candles in the office where his stepdad's body was found. Almost like a seance or a ritual, I don't know, but they allege that he recorded this video about a week after he murdered his stepdad. So was it some type of memorial service?
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Again, ritual, I don't really know, but freaking weird and gives me the creeps. And what's even weirder is he was apparently talking to somebody or talking to himself as he was recording this. Because according to the authorities investigating the case, quote, "...the camera is turned facing a chair, and the detective heard the defendant say, quote, "'So you can see him there.
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I can literally see the fucking rotten body there.'" Now, I don't think I need to explain to anybody how next level creepy this is that this kid was literally videotaping his stepfather's decomposing body. Who does that? It's almost like he was using this. I don't even know. Was it like a trophy to him? Did he want to then show people because he was proud?
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I mean, or was he just so detached and callous that it seemed almost like a movie or a prop to him? I don't really know. But what I do know, Something is seriously wrong with him. Who does something like that? And as if that's not grotesque enough, after the murders, Nikita was even texting people from his parents' phones, pretending to be them, like they were still alive.
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He even texted his stepdad's work, telling them, you know, I'm sick, I can't talk on the phone, I'm not going to be coming into the office, really trying to get away with this, it seems. Now, during this texting frenzy or whatever it was, he also texted his stepdad's mother. However, what he didn't know was that she was already becoming increasingly suspicious of these messages.
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To her, she could just tell. The tone, the conversation flow, it just seemed off. So then, on February 28th, His stepdad's mom followed her instincts and called the police. She said, you know, please go perform a welfare check. Something is not sitting right here. I want to know what's going on.
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So deputies rolled up to their house on Cider Hills Drive and the scene that they walked into, guys, it was straight out of a horror movie. There they found his mother and his stepdad and just dead and fully decomposing. Now, I mentioned that the stepfather was in the office, but the police found his mom, Tatiana, buried underneath clothing and blankets in this hallway near the kitchen.
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She had suffered multiple shots to her neck, upper torso, abdomen, and her right wrist, which I would imagine the right wrist was probably a defensive move if I had to guess. Maybe putting her arm up, trying to block it when he raised his gun at her. I don't know. That's just a guess, but it's... haunting.
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other than that what else is going on it's thursday my face is a little bit pink i apologize if you're watching this on youtube and you're like uh annie why is your face so red i went and had micro needling done over the weekend and usually my face bounces back after like 48 hours but it's taking a little bit of time this time around
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And what I do think is interesting too, and maybe it means nothing, but tell me what you guys think, his mom suffered multiple gunshots, while his stepdad, who was in that downstairs office I mentioned, just had a gunshot wound to his head, a single one.
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So did he go after his mother first, and that's why he shot at her so many times, because he didn't know how to be effective, and then he went and killed his stepfather and just was like, I don't want him to fight back, I'm going to do one gunshot wound to the head, or... If it were reversed, was the anger really, you know, pointed towards his mom? And was that why she had multiple shots?
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Like, was it overkill? I don't know. But anyways, as the police discovered these bodies, Nikita was nowhere to be found. Which you might be wondering, okay, well, where the hell was he? He lived with these bodies for weeks. Where was he now? Well, as it turns out, he was halfway across the country. He fully bolted.
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Now, thankfully, he was arrested during a traffic stop in Kansas, and he was arrested the same day that the couple's body was found in that home in Wisconsin, but he was arrested about 850 miles away. He had been driving and fled in his stepdad's VW Atlas, and he even had the family dog with him inside the car.
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When the police pulled him over, they also observed, in plain view, a gun sitting right there on the passenger side floorboard. Police also discovered spent casings, his parents' IDs, cash, and jewelry. So he was, of course, taken into custody. But it doesn't end there, not by a mile, because now is where we really get Lifetime movie, Oxygen movie, Netflix series all rolled into one.
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Because apparently, Nikita had been texting somebody in Russia this entire time, asking to get fake plates, maybe even trying to escape to the Ukraine, which, like, the Ukraine? What? I mean, this kid's not just running. He's really planning an international getaway. Now look, I'm just going to say this and give my hot take on the situation.
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To me, I feel like it leads me to believe at least, I'll say that, that this was premeditated. And the reason I say that is because these records are showing that he's messaging back and forth with his contact in Russia for literally weeks or even months before the murder. So asking questions like, how long will I have to hide before I can move to Ukraine?
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Who's this, quote, contact that he was messaging with? So to me, that indicates that there was a plan being put in place, that there was like all the groundwork being done and like strategy. So it just, again, kind of sends a shiver down my spine that teenagers, teenagers are capable of this kind of violence. I swear guys, you can't make this kind of stuff up.
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So while being held in Kansas, Nikita was originally charged with one count of theft and one count of operating a motor vehicle without the owner's consent. However, he has now also been charged with two counts of first-degree intentional homicide, two counts of hiding a corpse, and two counts of theft of a movable property. So, eight counts in total.
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Which, life hack for all my girlies out there, microneedling has like changed my skin entirely. I feel like I've tried all the different skin cares like retinol, tretinoin, all these things. But I started microneedling, gosh, when was it? I guess late fall. I just had my third or fourth session. And I have noticed such a difference in my skin.
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And the judge in this case had this to say to the defense team.
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His bail was set at $1 million and he could spend a life in prison if convicted. The whole case is just wild and still has so many questions. So my question, as I'm sure you're wondering too, as you're listening to this, is like, what made this kid snap? What was his motive? I mean, there was no fighting, no big blowout. Was he just done with them?
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Did he just want to live an adult life and he didn't want any rules or repercussions or anything like that? I don't know. And then take that out of it. How do you live with these bodies for weeks without cracking, without buckling under pressure, or even having like a psychotic break, right? It just baffles me. And this next case also just really rubs me the wrong way.
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Not that any of these cases ever rub me the right way, obviously. Like, duh, Annie, poor choice of words. But... I just can't wrap my head around this one. There's something I can't understand because now we're going to talk about that stabbing death that I mentioned at the top of this episode about the two college students because this has just completely sent shockwaves all across Italy.
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And let me break it down for you. So, Sarah Campanella and Ilaria Sula were both brutally murdered in two separate incidents last week. And here's the tragic part, as if it's not tragic enough, right? But they were both 22 years old, both college students, and both just killed and disposed of far too young and in such a... evil way. Now let's start with Sarah.
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Sarah, first and foremost, was absolutely gorgeous. I mean, long brown hair, beautiful brown eyes. She was a biomedical student at the University of Messina in Sicily and just had her whole life ahead of her. But she was stabbed and killed in broad daylight, right in the middle of a busy street, just surrounded by tons of witnesses.
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The perpetrator was Stefano Argentino, and he ended up fleeing the scene as soon as he inflicted this horrific bloodbath, and he took the murder weapon with him. However, he was later captured by the police that same night in a nearby town. But according to witnesses, Sarah, as he was trying to attack her, tried to get away.
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She was screaming, stop it, let me go, before ultimately collapsing right then and there. And sadly, Sarah passed away while she was on the way to the hospital. So who was this Stefano guy? Well, according to Italian media, he was a fellow student at the university, and he had been infatuated with Sarah for years.
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The police detention order even states that Stefano was, quote, "...regularly pestering the victim, asking her to go out with him and get to know each other better, and refusing to back down even when she would flat out turn him down." Now, unfortunately, Sarah never went to the police. She never reported him. She just tried to like get him to beat it and back off.
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Her friends even said that she didn't feel like this guy's behavior was particularly threatening or even pathological. She just thought that he was somebody who was persistent and wouldn't give up. She, of course, didn't know that it was going to end like this. You just never really know what somebody is capable of, right? You truly never know.
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And it is so heartbreaking and devastating to think about. And my question, too, is could this have story maybe had a different ending if she had previously reported him to the police? And that's not to victim shame, not at all. It's just when we hear about cases like this, you can't help but wonder, could something have been prevented? Could it have been stopped?
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So even though I'm a little pink right now, I don't have any makeup on. And you can kind of see like basically what it is. And sorry for anybody who's not interested, but I'm going to tell you anyway.
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Then, less than 48 hours later, news of Sarah's horrific murder was pushed out of the headlines by another nightmare that was unfolding. Ilaria Sula was an Albanian student studying at the university in Rome. She was reported missing on March 25th because her roommate stated that she left around 9.30 p.m. and, strangely, she didn't say goodbye, she just vanished. It was odd.
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It was definitely not in her, like, normal behavior. So her parents filed a report right away, and the police started searching for her. Then, fast forward to April 2nd, about a week later, and the police found her body in a suitcase. It had been dumped in a wooded ravine about 25 miles outside of Rome. The suspect is her ex-boyfriend, 23-year-old Mark Sampson.
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Now, according to friends and family, they describe Mark as very calm, very non-violent. Mark lived at home with his parents in what's quote called the African neighborhood of Rome. He had also just graduated as an architect student, but he really seemed to have so much going for him. But ultimately, after the police brought him in for questioning, he ended up point blank confessing to the murder.
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He says he grabbed a knife that had been used at breakfast and then used that knife to stab her three times in the neck. Then he took the knife along with the rags that he used to clean the blood up from his apartment and he threw them in a dumpster near his house.
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basically what it is is it's like a pen that they use it's not filler it's not injections don't worry but it's like a pen that they use and it has a ton of little micro needles at the tip of it hence the name and you can use exomes you can also use like your own plasma with
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And what he did next makes me so sick because he proceeded to put Ilaria's body in a suitcase and wrapped it in cellophane as though nobody was going to notice or find it or like dumping her like she's garbage. Later that same day, he loaded the suitcase containing her body into his car and he drove it to a ravine and then just threw it right in.
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It always makes me so enraged when people just dispose of victims like they're literal garbage. The fact that he just threw her into a ravine like she was trash, like she was nothing and didn't matter. I mean, this girl was beautiful, she was smart, she had so much life ahead of her, and she was just discarded after he stole and snatched her entire life from her. And why?
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Because he got jealous over a text message? Like, get a grip, you twerpy douchebag. Like, it just, it's so senseless in every definition of the word. Now, in the wake of these killings, rallies have been held in this country to denounce femicide and to really demand tougher measures for the government to put in place to protect women.
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Now, in a really unsettling statistic, considering we're only in April, Ilaria is the 10th femicide victim in Italy this year. 10th. It is April, for crying out loud. Like, it is crazy. That means, if you do the math, that it's one woman dead every 10 days. All because some guy got jealous, couldn't deal with a text message, couldn't deal with his feelings, felt he was entitled to date her.
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I mean... It is so unhinged. I mean, not even unhinged, guys. I need a new word. It's just so entitled. Maybe that's the word. Like, the fucking audacity of these creeps, right? This is just absolutely awful, and the victims definitely deserve justice, so I hope that they get that. Now, before we get into the next stories, we are going to take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.
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Today's episode is sponsored by Simply Safe. And with longer daylight hours, you might be like me, spending way more time outside of the house, whether you're running errands, you're going to the park with the kids, maybe staying out later in general. But the extra daylight actually is kind of scary because it gives burglars more opportunity for them to strike and to plan it.
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that's extracted from your blood i don't go that far i just use the exomes and they go over your skin with this pen they numb you first but they go and it takes about 10 minutes maybe 15 they go over your skin with this pen and it like produces collagen it's produced it like triggers your skin to like resurface itself i don't know all the correct terminology obviously um
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FBI crime data even shows that break-ins are more likely happening during the day than at night. Now, I've talked to you about SimpliSafe before, but I wanted to mention them again because this is why I use SimpliSafe. It's a proactive security system that helps stop threats before they happen. I have used SimpliSafe for years now, not only at my house, but also here at my studio.
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And honestly, I don't know how I ever really felt comfortable without it. Whether I'm heading to the studio in the morning or locking up before bed, I know that our home is covered. And I especially love that their cameras are smart enough to recognize suspicious activity when it's happening. There's actually somebody even actually watching this footage and ready to respond if something is off.
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I also have like motion detector lights that like floodlights that flash on people if they're outside, which one time it caught a squirrel and I freaked out a little bit, but I would rather be overprotected than underprotected. Millions of Americans trust SimpliSafe because it's not just about reacting after a break-in, it's about preventing one in the first place.
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Their active guard outdoor protection uses AI-powered cameras and real live monitoring agents who are watching and ready to intervene in real time. So like I said, if somebody's creeping around your property, they'll not only see them, but they will speak with them, flash the spotlight on them, and call the police if needed. And they'll do all that before the person ever sets foot inside.
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There's also no long-term contracts, which I really appreciate, no cancellation fees, and monitoring plans start at just about $1 a day. Plus, there's a 60-day money-back guarantee, so there's really nothing to lose. Visit simplisafe.com to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com slash Annie.
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There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Today's episode is also sponsored by Ancient Nutrition. Now, our bodies are incredible, truly, right? But as we get older, the stuff that keeps us feeling and looking great, like collagen, starts to slow down. But that is where Ancient Nutrition comes in.
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Their multi-collagen advanced lean supplement has now become a part of my daily morning routine, and truthfully, honestly, I can feel the difference. Now, what I love most about it is it's not just any collagen, which if you've taken collagen before, I took the one, I'm not going to say the name, but it was in the blue and white tub. I took it for years and I never noticed a difference.
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I think it was all hype. But what I love most about this one is it's made with 10 types of collagen from real food-based sources. And it's actually powered by clinically studied ingredients that helps with fat metabolism and with lean muscle support. So I mix it in with my drink, my tea, or my juice, whatever I'm drinking that morning, every single morning. It's super easy.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. I am your host, Annie Elise, and I am here to guide you through everything going down this week in true crime. And it's only Thursday, guys, but it is a lot. There is so much happening.
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It actually tastes great too. And over time, I've noticed real benefits. I mean, my joints and hips feel better. My skin is glowing. My hair, it's like softer, feels shinier, just like finally doesn't feel like hay. I don't feel like scarecrow from Wicked.
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But if you're looking for something that supports how you feel on the inside, yet also how you look on the outside, I definitely recommend Ancient Nutrition's Multi-Collagen Advanced Lean. And right now, Ancient Nutrition is offering 25% off your first order when you go to ancientnutrition.com slash AE. That's ancientnutrition.com slash AE for 25% off your first order.
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ancientnutrition.com slash AE. Okay, so this next case is the one that I told you I first heard about a few weeks ago, but I wanted to gather more information before I covered it. And it actually is happening, like, right here in my backyard. And it's the case about the mother who went to Disneyland with her child and then killed her son.
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But what I will say is that my skin has never been clearer. It has never been glowier. And so you do it like every six weeks you can if you want and only for like three times. And then you can, I think, do maintenance maybe, I don't know, once a year. But anyway, I went and got that. So I'm a little, you can hear ASMR. I'm rubbing my cheek right now.
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Saritha Ramaraju is a 48-year-old woman who moved to Virginia after a very nasty divorce. She then flew into California for a custody visit with her 11-year-old son, Yatin. And let me just say, this was supposed to be a very fun visit with her son. Three days at Disneyland, enjoying the Southern California weather, just having a great time.
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Also, I mean, it's worth saying, Disneyland is supposed to be the happiest place on Earth, right? However, on the day that she was supposed to check out of the hotel and then return her son to his dad, everything just went off the rails. That morning, she called 911 on herself and...
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she calmly told the 911 operator that she had just killed her son and that she had also taken pills trying to kill herself. When the cops arrived at the hotel, they found her right there on her phone outside of her hotel room, just calm as can be. And sadly, they found her son, her 11-year-old son, stabbed to death.
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lying right there on the hotel bed, surrounded still by his Disneyland souvenirs and toys that he bought on this fun trip with his mom. Police also recovered a bloody kitchen knife just laying there on the bed, which if you're wondering like I was, what do you mean a bloody kitchen knife? She was staying in a hotel. Well, as it turns out, she bought that knife.
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The day before, she went with her son to a store and bought this kitchen knife, full well knowing what she was going to do. So obviously, this looks like premeditation. I mean, How sick can you possibly be? What kind of mother does this to her own child? And over custody issues? But unfortunately, we have covered so many cases like that. I mean, Susan Powell is one that comes to mind.
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And there's so many where it's like that mentality of, if I can't have you, nobody can. And it's just... Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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It's a little sandpapery because the new skin's turning over. But I love it. I swear by it. So everybody should check it out if you're interested. I don't know. All right, you obviously aren't here because this isn't a skincare podcast, so let me just shut up and get into the cases. Oh, wait. Wouldn't be true anti-podcasting if I didn't get distracted.
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I also, this last weekend, went and saw Crime Junkie. They're on tour. Little public service announcement if you guys ever listen to Crime Junkie. But I went and saw them with my sister Amy, and it was a pretty good show. It was long. It was really long, but it was a great case, good coverage, and... I found it pretty interesting. So that's what I did with my weekend.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think right now tentatively opening statements are scheduled to begin Tuesday. Again, don't quote me on that. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm hearing. So we will keep you definitely updated on that case. And I actually think what I'm going to do, guys, I haven't done live streaming in a hot minute here for like years.
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My husband also is still in Morocco. He's running the MDS marathon. If you haven't heard of that, it is wild. It's six days, 155 miles, completely self-sufficient. You have to carry your water on your back, your food on your back, everything. You can't shower for a week, obviously, because you're in the Sahara Desert.
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And then each night when you sleep, it's under a tent that you share with like six other people. But you have like, and you have like a sleeping mat, but that's it. And so all of the food he brought, it's, I don't know, what would you call it? Like astronaut food, basically, where it's like bagged and that's what he eats. And yeah, no showering. Yeah, I think you have to like
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I think I'm going to live stream the entire Karen retrial. I really do. I mean, I know we will be in the courtroom as well, but there are pool cameras. There are feeds in there. I think that I'm going to live stream it so that all of us can be in the chat together as it's happening, asking questions, talking about the case.
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So if that does start Tuesday, head over to YouTube beginning Tuesday and watch the stream with me. Watch this trial with me and let's talk about it. And we will talk about it in real time. So just as a little note. And again, that's 10 to life over on YouTube. I wish I could stream it on the podcast, but I don't think there's any software that does that yet.
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All right, guys, that is it for this week's episode of Headline Highlights. As I said, I think we are going to go and actually cover Karen's trial in the courtroom. So if you're not following this podcast yet or the YouTube channel, take a second, look on your podcast app, make sure you press the follow button. I think it's in the top right corner.
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same over on YouTube press the subscribe button because we are going to be dropping those episodes probably outside of the normal release schedule and getting you all the updates as they're happening in real time that way too you won't miss any other updates regarding other cases or deep dive episodes and all of that and if you're listening on Apple and have an extra five seconds and want to leave a rating and review I would greatly appreciate it it's a free way to support the podcast and I would love that so
Serialously with Annie Elise
259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
That is it for Headline Highlights. I will be back with you first thing Monday morning with an all-new deep dive. As a reminder, you know there's so much more content to binge if you feel like you're running out of episodes. You can get access to those on Patreon or on Apple Podcasts. We have a library of I think well over 80 now.
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dig a hole and poop in it even there's no toilets obviously so he is finishing up now he's on what is it now it's the I think he has one day left yeah one day left the long stage is that was yesterday and that one is like last year he did it last year too I don't know why he's doing it again this year he's crazy but it's like 27 it took him 27 hours for that long stage but yeah
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extra deep dives that are exclusive to those subscribers so that's where you can get access last week I did an update on the Idaho case I also then the week before talked about the breaking news case of the husband who is accused of trying to push his wife off the cliff in Hawaii and like what really is going down with that case so and then we of course just do other mini deep dives on there too so again you can get access to that either on Patreon or Apple Podcasts
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All right. That's it, guys. I will talk with you again very soon. I'm going to go put like something on my face to cool down this redness a little bit. And I hope you guys have a amazing weekend, a good rest of your week. And I will talk with you again on Monday. All right. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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So that was my weekend. He's still in Morocco running because my husband's an ultra marathon runner, if I haven't told you that. Myself, I haven't run since I think 2019, but you know, God bless him. So that's what's going on in my life. Not that you care, but figured I would just throw it out there. Why not give you a few little personal anecdotes of my life, right?
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So today I'm going to talk with you a little bit about what's happened with Lori Vallow and her opening statements, where things are at with Karen Reid as well. But I want to talk to you about some new cases that are breaking, and they're really unsettling. A lot of these have been also requests coming directly from you guys.
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But we have once again a creepo teacher, who is a special ed teacher at that, who is now being accused of having sex with her 15-year-old student. However, what she's saying and claiming that really happened, you will have to hear it to believe it. It's pretty wild. We're also going to be talking about a 17-year-old teenager who murdered their parents and lived with their rotting bodies for weeks.
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259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
Some college students who were unfortunately stabbed to death only days apart. A mother who killed her son after a trip to Disneyland. This is one of the most
Serialously with Annie Elise
259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
horrific stories I've heard of and I heard about it for the first time a couple weeks ago and I wanted to have more details before we covered it because it's just so unsettling and then we also are going to talk about a very successful realtor who allegedly would trap women and then hold them captive as sex slaves so we're going to talk about all these new cases we're going to talk about Lori talk about Karen maybe I'll throw in some other stuff and now let me just shut up and let's get into it
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259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
Not only are there a ton of new cases that we're following, but Lori Vallow's trial is fully underway. I mean, we had opening statements already. She is representing herself, if you don't know that, which is just beyond me. There's also an interview that came out over the weekend, another one that she gave after the Notorious Dateline one with Keith Morrison.
Serialously with Annie Elise
259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
So I want to start with this special ed teacher who is now accused of having sex with her 15-year-old student. And buckle up, because this one is a roller coaster. Christina Formella is a 30-year-old teacher in Downers Grove, Illinois.
Serialously with Annie Elise
259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
She worked at Downers Grove South High School, where there she taught special ed, she was also a soccer coach for both the boys' and the girls' teams, and was just very well-liked. And on paper, honestly, she had it all. I mean, she's beautiful, she recently married her college sweetheart, She had this great job, and she was also very well respected by all of her colleagues.
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However, like so many cases we discuss, you would never guess what was going on behind the scenes. See, back in December of 2023, Christina was allegedly tutoring a 15-year-old freshman boy before school. He was also on the soccer team that she coached, and she was supposed to be in this position of trust, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
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I mean, she coached him, she was tutoring him, seems like a relatively normal situation. Well, fast forward to March 15th, 2025, and this kid and his mom just like rolled up to the Downers Grove Police Department and dropped a complete bomb. because it turns out this mom had found some very damning text messages on her son's phone.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Text messages that I'm telling you, like, made her stomach turn and drop. These texts were really explicit, like, way inappropriate for a teacher and a 15-year-old student. I mean, we're talking about text messages where Christina is saying stuff like, I love you so much, baby. Even though this morning was short, it was perfect. To which then he texted back saying, I know, baby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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It was so perfect, baby. So perfect. And then she goes on to say to him, i just love having sex with you guys when i tell you the level of cringe that i have from these text messages look i think i'm affectionate and sweet with my husband but i don't even know that i would send him some of these text messages the fact that she is sending this to a 15 year old a 15 year old student It is beyond.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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I mean, honestly, I just, what was this woman thinking? What was she thinking? So of course the police started digging. And when they did, they figured out that not only was Christina allegedly assaulting this kid, but apparently she had done so in one of her tutoring sessions in a classroom. A classroom, like the place where you're supposed to learn algebra.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Not learn, like, about the birds and the bees, right? Well, I guess technically you can, but you get what I mean. Not, like, reenacting it. So the cops, they didn't waste any time. And on March 16th, they pulled Christina over in a traffic stop near her house. There, they confronted her after she pulled into her driveway. Now, her husband was in the car with her, by the way, during all of this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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And they arrested her right then and there. And the cherry on top of this is it was all caught on body cam. And I want you to listen to this body cam footage because it is so unsettling. And you know what? For those of you listening to the podcast version of this, I highly encourage you after you listen to this, go check out the body cam footage that I have on my YouTube channel.
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You need the visual attached with it to really understand just how unhinged this woman is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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where she is just doubling down on everything, that she's the victim in all of this, how this is all happening for a reason, and how she's in jail right now to help save these women and get them through. And it's just like, ugh, gag me, honestly. It's like this self-righteous...
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wannabe martyr in all of this and it just it makes me sick we also have karen reed's trial going on jury being seated that's full steam ahead and i'll just let you guys know right here while we were planning on covering karen reed's trial and giving you guys updates it looks like we're actually possibly going to be in the courtroom now
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Now, I know you're going to probably go watch this on YouTube if you are listening to the podcast version, but let me just describe this. She looks genuinely bewildered, shocked. She keeps asking why she's being arrested, but they don't give her any details about the investigation. And by the time she gets to the station, she's just like crying. She's saying she's going to throw up.
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She can't believe this is happening, which... hi, maybe don't have sex with 15-year-old kids and then you won't be surprised and you won't feel like you need to throw up. Now when the police questioned Christina, guys, like the audacity, you're not even going to believe what she said. She said, quote, oh, I didn't do anything.
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Everybody comes after me because I'm good looking and I'm just a nice person who cared too much about this kid. That was her excuse, which, are you kidding me? That's what you're going to go with? Which, good luck with that. I think you're going to need a better defense than that one.
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But what's interesting is then she totally flipped the script, and she started turning it against this kid, saying, he's a stalker, he got her phone, he sent these text messages to himself so that he could blackmail her.
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I mean, really trying to sell this story, which kind of almost feels like a plot that you would see in a Lifetime movie, but I guess she had nothing to lose at that point, or really everything to lose, so she was going to try anything. But luckily, the cops were not buying this story either.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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So Christina has been charged with one count of criminal sexual assault and two counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse, all of which are felonies, by the way. She was let out of jail with some bond conditions, though, like not going near the school, no contact with anyone under 18. I mean, very important conditions. I think we can all agree.
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She's due back in court on April 14th, and honestly, I am dying to see how this plays out, because is she going to stick to the, you know, I'm too pretty to be guilty defense that she's trying to pull, which is almost like a Lori Vallow reenactment? Will there be more allegations that come out? Will we learn how long this is truly going on and what really happened?
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I definitely will be keeping my eye on this one, so...
Serialously with Annie Elise
259: Teacher Grooms 15 Year Old, Teen Murders His Parents & BDSM Sex Slaves
i'll let you know this whole case is just disgusting through and through and as a parent it's like we already have one massive thing to worry about by sending our children to school right hello i mean it's no secret that there is a lot of violence in schools in this country and it's really scary which is why a lot of people are homeschooling but it's like now you also have to layer on
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And we're being worried that these teachers who are supposed to teach, protect, and, you know, look after your children are actually predators and they're preying on your children. It's just, it makes me so incredibly mad and it's so disheartening, right? It makes you kind of lose hope in society as a whole, which, sorry, I know that's like wah, wah, wah, but... I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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I mean, the amount of force it truly takes to saw and cut someone's limb off, no less their head by the neck. I mean, it is incredibly not only brutal and disgusting and like just like foul, but it takes an incredible amount of strength. And We don't see this often in terms of, how do I want to say this?
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It has been way more than usual, but it's all the same ones that are trending like over and over and over again that I see so many of you guys want me to cover. So this week's episode, it's going to be just like a tiny, tiny bit different than our usual Thursday episodes. We're still going to go through all the headlines and everything going on in the true crime world. Don't get me wrong.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Like, anytime there's a dismemberment of any sort, usually it is when somebody's trying to clean up the crime scene. They're trying to conceal the body. They're going to scatter the body parts. They usually have a day or more to take their time doing this because it is so strenuous. And they'll, you know, sometimes go to a store and buy a hacksaw, different things like that.
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Then they get caught because we find the receipt. All the things. All to say, because I know that was really long-winded, sorry. is that traditionally in most dismemberment cases, it's done as a method of cleanup and it's not rushed and it's not something that happens, you know, very flippantly.
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However, in the cases in which it happens during a murder and something that is immediately done and not something that takes days, what I have seen, and this is just me, I'm not a detective, I'm not an investigator, guys, but from what I've seen in the cases I've covered, it happens in a drug-fueled state.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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And that's the reason that I brought up Taylor's business earlier because she was like super high on meth when she did the same thing. She like decapitated her boyfriend and left his head in a bucket. I think she also, if I'm remembering correctly, like cut off his wiener. I was going to say something else, but that's what it is.
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Um, so the fact that these other two guys who said that Heather was still alive when they left the apartment said that they all were doing drugs together. There's no proof of this. Let me just be clear, but I can't help but wonder, were they doing meth? Were they doing some other sort of hard drug together? Is that what caused this? Not that that would excuse it, of course, but like...
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It's just, again, such a brutal crime and so severe. And like you're going from like zero to 60. I don't know. It's crazy. But anyways, let me just continue because I know I just went off on like a crazy tangent. So I apologize. But anyway, so they searched. They found the weapons that were in this floor mat. They found the clothing. They also find Heather's head in a trash bag.
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And then next up, they searched Craig's apartment, and one of the first things that they found was a pair of shoes that had a reddish-brown substance on them. Now, according to the investigators, Craig had been refusing to give a DNA sample or even a urine sample after he was arrested, so it kind of made him look even more suspicious than he already was.
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The investigation is still ongoing at this point, but Craig is currently facing second-degree murder, first-degree manslaughter, and two counts of contempt of court. However, to my knowledge, he has not admitted to anything. He has not confessed. Everything is still kind of up in the air. Now, speaking about Heather, Heather belonged to a big, tight-knit family. She also has a daughter.
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She has seven siblings. She is close with her parents, and she has a ton of family and friends. Everyone who knew her described her as witty, loving, bright. Her family has set up a GoFundMe to help cover not only the funeral costs, but also costs to help now raise Heather's daughter without her. It is horrible.
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And it's just another case of domestic disputes that it just goes, you know, so, so far crazy. And I hope that this monster gets, you know, accountability, justice, all the things for Heather because this guy is truly disgusting. Now I know I'm kind of like going off the rails a little here. So I'm going to grab a quick drink of water. I'm going to like recompose myself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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But we also are going to talk about two cases that... have a crime element to them, but they're not necessarily like your clear-cut murder cases that we normally talk about. And you'll understand as I get into those, but like, for example, I can't tell you, again, the amount of times that I have been tagged on TikTok or emailed or DMed asking me to cover the Ashley Treviso case.
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We're going to hear from our sponsor and then I'll be back. Today's episode is brought to you by Ollie. Clean, fresh nutrition your dog deserves. Now let me tell you guys about my dog Freckles. He's sweet, he's lovable, but he's also almost as picky of an eater as my two toddlers. So I used to struggle to find food that he would actually enjoy that was, you know, healthy and good for him.
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230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
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is so easy you just take ollie's 30 second quiz and they will create a customized meal plan based on your dog's weight activity level and health needs freckles plan fits him perfectly and ever since we switched he's happier he's more energetic and i just feel so much better and not guilty so since i know he's getting the best nutrition you know so give your pup a fresh start this new year with ollie head to ollie.com tell them all about your dog and use code ae to get 60 off your first box of meals when you subscribe today
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That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash A-E. And don't forget to use code A-E to get 60% off your first box. Plus, with their clean bowl guarantee, if you're not completely satisfied, you will get your money back. Oli.com slash A-E. Okay, guys, we are back. And now I've got to get into this next story because we are going to talk about the Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively of it all.
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And for those of you who, you know, aren't into this story, don't worry. I'm just going to be doing a very topside summary. But for those of you who do want the deep dive and you want me to like do a full episode dedicated to this where I go through like all the text messages, the screenshots, all that stuff, definitely let me know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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So I'm sure that whether you've been following this or not, this lawsuit and complaint has been flooding your social media pages. But let's talk about everything going down between Blake and Justin because there is a lot. Now, just to recap, as you might already know, Blake had been receiving a ton of backlash from that movie, It Ends With Us.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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not just about her acting or the wardrobe in it, but more so because of her what people were calling very rude interviews and sort of her lack of compassion when it came to talking about the film's central message, which is domestic disputes. It is abuse, violence, emotional, all of those things.
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So it seemed, at least on social media, like Blake, during all of this promotion, was more so focused on emphasizing her hair products, the clothing she was wearing, over, you know, the whole part of the movie that really matters, and the film's, you know, central message, which is violence and how to get out of dangerous relationships, and ending the cycle of different forms of abuse.
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Now, of course, we know how social media works, but basically there was this like a whole hate train dumping on Blake Lively. People were pulling old interview clips of her, clips of her being rude during the movie's press tour, things from years back, former press tours of other movies. So again, if you've been following it, you know what I'm talking about.
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So while she was getting all of this hate for the movie It Ends With Us on this press tour, her co-star, Justin Baldoni, was kind of off doing his own press tour, separate from the rest of the cast, and I gotta say, by all appearances, he was, like, killing it.
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He was getting so much praise from the media, and he was placing in his interviews so much emphasis on the issue at hand, the domestic issue that is, you know, again, central to the film, these dangerous relationships, and... So everybody was kind of just like, this guy is so amazing. He's actually promoting this film the right way. He's talking about the serious issues.
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This is like something that's been going on on TikTok. It has gone viral. It is wild. And There is some issues with like CPS and some neglect. So I'm going to just like break it all down for you and you can tell me what you think. But that's one of those cases that wouldn't normally be in our, you know, Thursday, I don't know what you call it, roundup, if you will.
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And the public really took his side in all of this and just further kind of started dumping more and more on Blake. So this is where things started going back and forth, because now it seems Blake and Justin are kind of in like a full on war. And there's multiple legal complaints and lawsuits that are going on. I want to start with Blake.
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So as the whole public was basically on Justin's side, on December 20th, a bomb dropped, and everybody was kind of shocked, myself included. If you follow me on Instagram, at underscore Annie Elise, you know what I'm talking about because I made a few videos.
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But Blake filed a legal complaint against Justin Baldoni and against others, saying that she had been sexually harassed as well as mistreated while she was on the set. And that wasn't all. She also claimed that Justin, along his team, created a very calculated smear campaign all to ruin her reputation.
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Blake said that Justin, who didn't just star but also directed and produced this film, was disturbing, unprofessional, created a hostile work environment. And the complaint, like I said, wasn't just against Justin. It was also against Justin's production company, Wayfair Studios.
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Also named in the complaint is an independent contractor and publicist who allegedly helped in this smear campaign against Blake. So in her complaint, she says, So some specifics. Some of the things that Blake talks about in her complaint are definitely, I have to say, not something that you would ever want to deal with on a movie set. If these allegations were true, I mean, it is pretty wild.
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She alleged that Justin would show her nude videos of women, including his wife, that he would talk about porn and his addiction to that material. He would talk about sex all the time. He allegedly would improvise kissing scenes that were not, like, agreed on in the initial script and what was, you know, signed off on. He allegedly talked about her weight a lot.
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He would speak about Blake's dead father and claim that he was speaking to Blake's dead father. He would allegedly add new sex scenes to the movie where he would require her to, like, fake an orgasm very clearly. And he would ask her, you know, have you ever watched adult content or porn or anything like that? Like, do you know how people orgasm?
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Like, just really, like, some unsettling, like, gross things. Apparently, he also would, like, go into her trailer and just start, like, weeping and crying while they were alone, just making her feel very uncomfortable. And The list goes on, and it is very detailed. So if you want to read her whole 80-page complaint, you definitely can.
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But the gist of it was, like, she had this whole return to work requirement list, which was, I think, 17 things exactly, where it said, no more of this, no more of this, all kind of what I just outlined above. And he signed off on it, the team signed off on it, and then they resumed working together. This was coming back from the strike.
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But also I put a poll out on Instagram about how many of you want me to do a dive or not like a deep dive because I'm not doing a deep dive yet, yet.
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So, I'll be honest, when I first read this, which I was always kind of like, I wasn't on Team Blake or Team Justin, but I thought her promotion of the film was very off-putting, that's just my personal opinion. So then when I saw this complaint, I was like, wow, okay, like, not, does the, the promotion doesn't make sense, well, it kind of does, let me get there, but...
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I was like, this guy seems like scum. And if they're putting this whole return to work restriction saying no more of this, no more of that, and Justin and the team are signing off on it, to me that kind of proves in a sense of like, okay, that was happening on the set. If you're signing that there will be no more of something,
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that's indicative that there was that to begin with right also there were parts in this complaint which outlined that from i think it was from sony pictures but don't quote me on that but there was a strict guideline as to how the film needed to be promoted like and i'm talking so black and white where they went as far as saying you know Don't focus on the abuse. Focus on the survival.
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Focus on the uplifting elements. Focus on going to the movie with your friends. All of these things, which that's, in fairness, how Blake was promoting the film. She was doing what was literally listed black and white, required to do so. So after reading this, a lot of the public, myself included, kind of started to be like, wow, what really is the truth here?
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If this is all real, like, this guy is kind of a dirtbag, right? Because also in the lawsuit were screenshots of text messages about the alleged smear campaign that they were planning against Blake. According to her complaint, Justin's team was using, quote, social manipulation to absolutely destroy Blake's reputation.
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um but like dive into the whole Blake Lively Justin Baldoni of it all again more pop culture but it is criminal there is a complaint and a lawsuit filed there are allegations of sexual harassment and things of that nature so it's not in our normal lineup but so many of you guys have been asking me for my take on it to talk with you about what's going on so two of those cases which we're going to get to are just I want to just give you a little warning you know they're not in the normal lineup of what we typically talk about
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There were screenshots in this complaint which had text messages that talked about, you know, quote, burying Blake, saying how they're capable of ruining her in the public eye, they just can't put it in writing. There was also a screenshot of Justin referencing Hailey Bieber saying, this is what we would need.
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I mean, I guess it was talking about how badly Hailey's reputation had been ruined and he wants to do that to Blake. So anyway, it was like the public tide was starting to really sway in Blake's favor when all this was going down. And like I said, I won't explain the entire 80-page complaint, but you guys get the gist.
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So one day after Blake filed the complaint, the New York Times wrote a story on it, and they titled it, We Can Bury Anyone Inside a Hollywood Smear Machine. In addition to the New York Times article, a lot of celebrities also came forward supporting Blake. Her whole cast from the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants franchise spoke out saying they were standing with Blake.
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Colleen Hoover, the author of the book, It Ends With Us, also came out in support of Blake. So did co-stars from the movie. Jenny Slate came forward. Brandon Skelner, I think that's how you pronounce it, he came forward. So it seemed like the tide was shifting, that it was shifting into Blake's favor. Like Blake was exposing everything, closing in on this whole thing. But then... Boom.
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A bomb drops because Justin counters back, not by making any public comments, but by filing a lawsuit of his own. To be exact, a $250 million lawsuit that he filed against the New York Times. He's suing them for libel and for other claims. Now, his lawsuit goes directly against the majority of the claims that Blake listed in her complaint and also some of the sexual harassment accusations.
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He also, in his lawsuit, brought his own screenshots. The screenshots included text messages between him and Blake, even including one where Blake was inviting Justin to her trailer to discuss parts of the film while she was breastfeeding, which was very interesting because one of her return-to-work line items was, "'No more entering my trailer while I'm breastfeeding or nude.'"
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I'm paraphrasing there. So then he fires back and he's like, here's a text message where you literally say, hey, I'm breastfeeding right now or I'm pumping right now. Come on in. Let's talk about it. So he also was denying the accusations of showing her the adult material, the photos, the videos, all of those things.
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The lawsuit also talks about that smear campaign, the one that looked very clear from the documents that it was, you know, fully like planned and executed. Now, Justin said that when Blake felt like his team was creating a smear campaign on Blake, he felt like Blake was the one doing that to him.
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He even talked about how originally he wasn't even going to be allowed to attend the movie premiere because Blake didn't want him there, and she didn't want anyone from his production company there. He claims that he was, quote, segregated from the entire cast, and he goes on again with, like, kind of a laundry list of things, talking about how...
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She was insistent that she got editing rights on the film, even though that's something that a cast member would never have. But she wanted to have her own director's cut, then so much so that they took it to, what do you call it, focus groups or audiences to have them watch Justin's cut and Blake's cut.
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And while the audience all preferred Justin's cut, she apparently made such a stink about it that hers is the one that got released. She demanded that he be removed from the movie poster, which he is. It's only her on the movie poster. I mean, there were a lot of things. And again, I'm trying to keep it more high level because I know not all of you will be interested in this.
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But if you want the deep dive into this, let me know because it is definitely fascinating. But he was coming with a lot of the receipts. Even putting full screen grabs of text messages where the ones that were shown and, you know, the images in her complaint were kind of not altered, but there were certain like the whole thread wasn't included, where in his he included the whole thread.
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So you had more context to it. So now you can imagine because there was already so much kind of, you know, anger and hate towards Blake before she filed her complaint. now the tide was turning back in Justin's favor and people like, oh, she is really the monster we all thought she was.
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So much so that even just the last couple of days, there have been more allegations coming out where, you know, people are going to sleuth all they want and try to find information. But like Deadpool, which was being filmed simultaneously as it ends with us, Deadpool is the movie that stars her husband, Ryan Reynolds.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. And today we are talking about headline highlights. We have got so much to discuss.
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There's a scene that one scene was left in the movie and one was edited out, but it's now circulating online.
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where there's a character called nice pool and i don't know superhero movies guys i try i go with my husband but i think there's like different multi-universes and like different characters live in these universes so they're all a variation of each other i don't know but anyway this nice pool is
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So let's start with our first case this week. And like I said last week, 2025 has been off to a horrific start because there has been a lot going on and no shortage of just scummy human beings. So let me talk with you about this first situation. And it's about a couple, a tale as old as time, amid a divorce, and it ends horrifically.
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people are suggesting was based on Justin Baldoni because he has a man bun in his hair, which Justin famously had. Ryan Reynolds, as NicePool, makes a comment saying how he's going to have a podcast that is centered around female rights and advocacy that he can monetize, like almost kind of taking a dig, which Justin has a podcast that is similar to that.
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There's a few other things that this Deadpool, NicePool character says where they feel like it really was you know, because Ryan was so heavily involved in writing Deadpool, that he was doing that to, like, jab Justin. There's even a scene in which the Deadpool character talks about how it's so important that there's an intimacy coordinator on set.
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That's literally in the Deadpool movie, where one of Blake's biggest complaints was that there was no intimacy coordinator, and that's why things were so perverse and...
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why there was sexual harassment and all those things which by the way in Justin's counter lawsuit he put a screenshot of a text thread with Blake where he says hey the intimacy coordinator is ready to start where do you want to meet with her this and that and she says oh no I don't need to meet with her like it's fine or something to that degree to where it's like there was proof that there was an intimacy coordinator so like everybody's kind of like going back and forth right and
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It's been a lot to keep up with, and the public opinion just keeps swaying side to side, but social media is just going wild. Justin's lawyer also released a statement saying that Justin will be personally suing Blake very soon. So watching this whole thing play out is definitely going to be interesting.
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I think it's also interesting that I watched the Golden Globes this last weekend, and it seemed like there were two moments in which presenters and award acceptees –
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kind of alluded to the drama one was and i'm sorry please don't come for me i don't know his name i don't know what the film was that one but he's giving his acceptance speech and at the very end he says something again just paraphrasing here to the point of director's cut should always be the cut that goes into theaters and that is released it should always be that way filmmakers have a way of knowing how a film should look be portrayed all of those things
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So people thought that that was a dig at Blake because she was so hell-bent apparently on having her own cut and having editing rights and then getting an editor's credit or a director's credit, I should say. And her version is the one that ultimately got released as well because according to Justin, he didn't want to halt. He felt like the story needed to be told.
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He didn't want to halt production. He didn't want to halt the release. So he just like kind of went with it knowing that like Blake and Ryan are these powerhouses that could literally like
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stall everything destroy everything tie things up with money all those things so that was one instance from the Golden Globes then there was who was it was it it was Mindy Kaling and why do I want to say Kate Hudson I don't think it was Kate Hudson
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But there were two people who were presenting and they also make like a little mention about – I think the first words they say when they were presenting is it begins with us or begins with – or like there was some other context in there. So people are now suggesting, which again, this is just social media. Take it with a grain of salt. But they're suggesting that Hollywood –
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is siding with Justin on this, not Blake and Ryan, and that even more than that, that's the reason why Blake and Ryan didn't even go to the Golden Globes. They were supposed to, but didn't go. So I don't know.
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This is a case where you're definitely going to have to do your own research, read each of their complaints and lawsuits, watch the whole thing play out, and make a decision on who you want to But again, if you want the deep dive, let me know. I know that was very like topical, but I didn't want to keep you here all day. But I definitely can if you want me to.
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So a married couple who were reportedly in the middle of a divorce were found dead in a murder-suicide. 30-year-old Jennifer and 40-year-old Brandon Sheffield were a couple who was living in Mississippi. They also shared two daughters together. However, on December 28th, they were both found dead inside their home.
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All right, so let's move into another headline case. And we were going to talk about it last week, but there was still information pouring in. And so I wanted to wait a little bit. But now we're going to talk about the just absolutely devastating New Year's Day terror attack that killed and injured dozens of people.
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It was early New Year's Day in the French Quarter of New Orleans, and people were celebrating the new year when they were completely shocked when this man just intentionally drove a truck into the crowd. The truck was on some sort of absolute just deadly rampage, and the driver began plowing people, killing at least 14 people. It was a great time.
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The truck drove up to the barriers on Bourbon Street and then started weaving around the barriers, clearly trying to hit as many people as possible. Now, eventually, the driver crashed the truck, and when he got out, he started opening fire on the responding police officers. Then, after a shootout with the police, he was shot and was pronounced dead at the scene.
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Two police officers were also hit by gunfire, but they were treated at the hospital, thankfully. But here's where things get interesting and why I kind of wanted to wait until more information came out, because it still is coming out, but now we have more. But the attacker was identified as 42-year-old Shamsund Dean Jabbar. He was a U.S.
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Army vet who lived in Houston, Texas, and while no terrorist groups have officially come forward claiming responsibility for the attack, he did post several videos saying that he supported ISIS. The FBI is calling it an act of terrorism, but believes that nobody else is involved. And in the truck, police found guns and two IEDs, which are explosive devices.
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They also found a transmitter that was meant to trigger the bombs. So after bomb technicians swept the area, they also found two more IEDs in coolers around the area. Security footage even caught him placing these bombs in these coolers earlier in the evening. He was also wearing body armor to protect himself.
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So because of this, there is a theory that he set those bombs in the coolers so that they would go off at a certain time and create even more destruction, more damage, but that for some reason, the bombs didn't go off. And because of that, that's what prompted him to start driving his truck into the crowd.
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Because one of the biggest questions was why at 3 o'clock in the morning when the streets are now still busy but like way emptier than they would be at midnight, why is he choosing to drive into the crowd?
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So people are suggesting, and again, this is just suggestion, so do your own research, but they're suggesting that he had planted the cooler bombs hoping that that would create the mass destruction, but then after realizing they didn't go off for whatever reason, that they were faulty, whatever happened, that's when he decided the next best thing to cause mass destruction would be
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They were discovered because Jennifer's family had actually called the police asking them to come over and conduct a welfare check. And when they made that call, they also had said that there had been, quote, obvious signs of foul play at the home. I don't know what those signs of foul play were, if maybe they could see something peering through the window.
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FBI investigators also checked out the Airbnb that he was staying in, and they found out that the building had caught on fire, so there's an additional investigation looking into what started that fire. They also searched his home in Houston, and they found more bomb-making materials.
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Now, because so many people were killed, police are still working to perform all of the autopsies and identify all of the victims and, of course, notify all of the families. But a lot of these victims were college students, high school students, fathers, children. So it's just so sad and like, I don't know the word anymore, like defeating, I guess, when you realize that
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14 families are now forced to prepare for funerals. The coroner's office is working to identify all of the victims, but so far the youngest victim that's listed is 18 years old, and the oldest is 63.
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As I said, most of the victims were in their 20s, so it's so sad to think that these people who had their entire lives ahead of them, who were just together celebrating the new year, their lives were lost in a split second. One of the victims was an 18-year-old girl named Nikaira Cheyenne Didot.
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Her mother shared in a post on Facebook, quote, And her mom originally said that she had told her daughter she wasn't allowed to go out, but apparently she snuck out anyway to go have fun on New Year's. Another one of the victims was also 18 years old. His name was Kareem Badawi, and he had just finished his first semester at the University of Alabama.
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Kareem's father gave him permission to go out to New Orleans with his friends so that he could, you know, ring in the New Year, but of course now is devastated not knowing that he was going to lose his son by allowing him to do that. Nicole Perez was a 27-year-old singer mother who was also killed in the attack.
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She had just received a promotion at work, and things were finally looking up for her and her five-year-old son. She was just there, celebrating, ringing in the new year. One of her co-workers remembers speaking to her, and Nicole was saying how excited she was that she was going to go and see the fireworks. Those are just a few of the victims who lost their lives, and there are so many more.
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It's just very, very sad. On Saturday, New Orleans hosted a vigil to mourn all of the lives that were lost, and at the memorial, there are crosses, there are teddy bears, flowers, even a brass band who's playing to pay tribute. Relatives, friends, and family all just held each other and cried.
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It's amazing when you see the love and support of the community come together, but of course nothing can make it up for what's been lost. It's just, it's very devastating. Now I want to talk about Ash Trevino because this is the one I was telling you at the top of this episode everybody has been asking me to cover. And I just want to quickly touch on the enigma of Ashley Trevino.
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I don't know the details, but police say that once they entered the house, they found a truly, truly gruesome scene. It looked like this couple had died from gunshot wounds, but that wasn't all. Brandon appeared to have shot Jennifer before then shooting and taking his own life.
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I won't get down the whole rabbit hole because there really is so much backstory history. And what do the kids say? Lore, I think is the word. It's really hard to keep up. I mean, so much, so much going on. But let's just start by saying this woman is going viral on TikTok right now. and for all of the wrong reasons.
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She's a 35-year-old woman from Texas, and one of her nicknames is actually the Inmate Hopper. So yeah, this woman kind of has made like a little image of herself for dating prisoners. She dates them, she talks to them, she sends them money in prison, and one of these prisoners is actually convicted of murdering teenage girls. And By the way, let me mention, she's a mother.
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She has daughters, daughters that are the same age as the one that this convict supposedly killed. It's just crazy. Now, one of the stories that she went viral for is for saying that she was, quote, dating this guy from prison. Then, the day that he got out, she booked a hotel room for them.
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Now, she apparently had to book a hotel room and couldn't invite him over to her house because she still lives at her parents' house, supposedly. But she booked this hotel room for them, and then a week later, he dumped her. And apparently the reason, I can't help but laugh, but apparently the reason he dumped her was because she didn't look like what he thought she was going to look like.
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I don't know if she was, you know, facetuning herself when she was talking to him when he was in prison or what the situation is, but he went to the hotel room, got with her, and then said, Now, you don't even look like what I thought you were going to look like, so I'm out. Now, she also went viral because she goes on TikTok live all of the time and She acts kind of just insane.
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I mean, sometimes she'll have her, quote, prison boyfriends on speakerphone when she's going live, and she'll say things like they're innocent, she'll make fun of the victims even, and while she's on the phone with her prisoner boyfriend, she also has even gone on live and, like, masturbated on camera, which is... So disgusting and disturbing.
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And if you can see my face right now, you'd see it makes I like look like the emoji that's about to barf. But more than all of that sketchy, weird behavior, Ashley has a long, long history with CPS. Now, this is also something that she openly will talk about in her TikToks.
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There's one video of her even saying, yes, I've had like 20 CPS cases, but they all get dismissed because my kids are in good hands. And if you just type the search Ashley Trevino on TikTok or even on YouTube, you will find videos that go on and on with like just clips of all of her tangents. But here are a
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Now, in a very awful, heartbreaking detail, as if it could not get any worse, it does, because while all of this was going on, one of their young daughters was inside the house. Now, nothing has been released yet about the whereabouts of their daughter since their deaths, but there has been a GoFundMe that was set up to raise funds for both of their children. The goal of the GoFundMe is $15,000.
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230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Now, Ashley's children were apparently not raised by Ashley, but by Ashley's mother. And Ashley will often go on these live streams saying how she's just going to send her daughters to go be watched by her parents so that she can be with all of her prison boyfriends and she can be hooking up with all of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
There's even one video where she's like literally talking on live and she receives a text message from her daughter where her daughter says, Mommy, can I come over tonight and just spend the night with you? And she just starts laughing and then puts the phone down, not even responding to her daughter. It's like, how cruel are you? It's no wonder that the internet is up in arms.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So now, she supposedly is dating a 19-year-old guy. And like I said, it's a lot to keep track of, but this new guy, his name is Santos. And at first, Ashley said that he was 22 years old, but he's actually 19 years old. Now, the two of them have gone back and forth with allegations saying that he...
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
had sexually assaulted her then he came back and said that she's the one who assaulted him and they've kind of done like this series of insane out-of-pocket things where they're blaming each other she's buying him alcohol he's underage she was live streaming while they were all drinking when the police
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
came or was it police or cps i can't even remember now came while she was live streaming because she was serving underage people alcohol it's just wild and like i said there is a whole rabbit hole that comes with ashley i could go on and on about all the things that are coming out about this woman but everybody's main concern is the children of course right the fact that there's been 20 cps cases on her
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
That she's neglecting them on camera and, you know, not concerned at all with actually being a good mother. The fact that she's dating inmates who have allegedly murdered children her own, like the same age as her own children. And then when they get out, she's inviting them to come near her children. It's very, very alarming. She also has allegedly made racist comments.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
She, like I said, has made fun of victims in crimes that her supposed boyfriends have committed. And she just spends all day, every day on these live streams, just sitting there, talking, eating hot Cheetos, not taking care of her daughters. I mean, it's... Weird, weird, weird. So as I said, everything right now is, of course, alleged. She has not been charged with committing any crimes yet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But a lot of the public is concerned for the safety of her kids. And I think that is warranted. I absolutely do. I'm going to keep following this to see if any charges come. But if you, again, kind of like the Blake Lively thing, if you want a deep dive in this, even though I know it's different than our normal content, let me know because I like to give you the content you want.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So let me know what you want. All right, other than that, on Friday, we are putting out another ad-free bonus episode. It is a mini deep dive into a case that is going on right now. It is a current case. It is still being investigated. It's about a toxic relationship, drunk makeup sex. It ends in murder. There's still no body. It's very, very interesting. So we're talking about that Friday.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
You can get access to that either on Apple Podcasts or through Patreon. That's the only two places where it lives. But if you want to do that because you do feel like you need more content to binge, you will unlock about 70 bonus episodes when you do that, when you sign up. So we put one out every single Friday, and right now there's a backlog of about 70. So you will have a
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But here's where things get a little bit interesting. Not that any of these cases are ever clear-cut or you know things are going to happen or can foreshadow them all the time. But Jennifer was very active on social media. And she documented her life as a mom, her life as an aspiring doctor. I mean, was very just kind of transparent and wore her heart on her sleeve via social media.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
plenty of deep dives to listen to and then of course i'll be back on monday with a brand new deep dive into a case that once again it is true crime related but i have been tagged in it over 500 times literally that's not an exaggeration over 500 times so that deep dive that you have all been asking for is coming on monday so don't miss that
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
And if you want to make sure you don't miss any of those things, take a quick second. If you are listening on the podcast app, find the little button in the corner where you can follow the podcast. That way you won't miss any new episodes. Again, it's totally free. And if you are watching this episode on YouTube, since we are putting it on there now, hit subscribe on the channel.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Again, totally free. And that way you will not miss any of these updates or the deep dives that I just mentioned. All right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Be safe. Be nice. Don't kill anybody. Just get a divorce. Don't join any cults. And just try to be a good human. We're all doing our best, right? All right. I will be back on the mic with you very soon. Until then, stay safe. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So much so that just weeks before Brandon allegedly committed this horrific act, Jennifer posted a video on her TikTok. And it wasn't just like any other video that she had posted, but this video was where she once again was wearing her heart on her sleeve and talking about the divorce that she was in. But where we've seen things like this in the past where they are...
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Talking on social media about a divorce that they're in or a toxic relationship and almost kind of giving these warnings like if something happens to me or I don't know what to do or I just want to escape. That's not what this video was. She was, yes, talking about their divorce, but she was praising Brandon. She even called him a, quote, incredible father and incredible co-parent.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
And as a reminder, because this is only the second episode this year of headline highlights, I just wanna give you a quick reminder that we heard from you, we listened to the people, I like to be a podcaster of the people, and so many of you for the last year or so have been asking that I cross post this episode onto YouTube for all my YouTube viewers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
I mean, take a listen to this video.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So in her words, although she was not sharing a reason for the divorce, it seemed to be going very civilly. They were splitting everything equally. They were co-parenting. I mean, so how it played out the way it did, it really was shocking to everybody.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
The chain of events going, you know, from praising him as this co-parent to now an apparent double murder or, well, murder or suicide, you get what I mean. It's kind of hard to wrap your mind around. There are so many unanswered questions that it merely makes you wonder what was truly going on behind the scenes and behind those social media posts in terms of their divorce.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Now, on Jennifer's account, the way that she was talking about their split, she sounded very calm. She sounded sort of at peace with the entire thing. Yes, she was nervous to be out on her own and she worried about finances, but it sounded like there was just a complete zero ill will coming from her end.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Now, I know that everybody only posts what they want people to see on social media, so we might not have been getting, you know, the full picture. I also know that it's possible that the husband could have been acting like a great co-parent and acting like he wasn't upset or bothered and, you know, really there was something brewing under the surface.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But it seems like this whole thing caught everyone by surprise. One of Jennifer's friends also said, "...he's never been a violent person that I was ever aware of. I was with her when they met, and I've always loved him for how much he loved her. So it's definitely hard trying to understand something that we will never be able to."
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So as I said, it kind of looks to family and friends like this was totally just out of left field. And my heart, of course, first and foremost, breaks for these kids because now they are left with no parents and not really a lot of answers either. Now, of course, this investigation is ongoing, so hopefully the truth comes out about what truly went down here.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But it is a little bit different than the traditional blueprint we see in a lot of these cases. I have to say, although I wish there was no murder that took place here, I am happy, even though the daughter was home, that this did not turn into a family annihilator situation because we see that way more than I would ever care to talk about again, but where they take the kids' lives as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So Headline Highlights officially will be out on YouTube every single week. You can, of course, listen to it on the podcast first every Thursday because YouTube likes to be, you know, a thorn in my side and not approve things right away. But so you can listen to it first every Thursday here on Serialistly on any podcast platform you have for, you know, totally free, totally easy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So in one sense, although I'm angry and upset that this senseless murder even had to happen, I am thankful that he didn't choose to kill the children as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
I don't know if that's just me trying to see the silver lining or what but you know I've seen a lot of bad things so I'm happy that at least the kids were spared in that regard although the amount of trauma they're going to have to deal with in their life is just absolutely unbearable.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Now this next case is taking us to New York and I don't know what's in the water in New York or what's in the sewage line or the subway line. I love New York as I used to live there, but I am just saying like, I don't know what's going on there right now because this case kind of reminds me of like, not only everything that's been going on that's wild in New York right now,
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But also, not New York related, but the pizza delivery stabbing that I talked about just last week. Because a woman is being accused of fatally stabbing a postal worker in line at a bodega at like a deli in New York City. And she... stabbed him over a sandwich. Now, here's where this whole altercation is just like crazy town, because 24-year-old Jaya Cruz was at a Harlem deli on January 2nd.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Also at this deli was 36-year-old Ray Hodges. He was the Manhattan USPS employee. Ray was there to grab some lunch, as was she. That's how these delis, bodegas work. You're all in line, you, you know, order your hero, which is sandwich or whatever, and just move along. But according to witnesses, Ray began to order his sandwich, and then Jaya just started yelling at him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
She said it was her turn to order, not his. She even tried to step in front of Ray and order before him. She allegedly then spit in Ray's face, which prompted Ray to kind of retaliate, and he threw a plastic water bottle at her, allegedly. But then she just pulled out a knife and began stabbing him, like, over a sandwich, over ordering a sandwich, which you would be next in line.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Like, I know when people cut, it's frustrating, but, like, come on here. So people around this whole thing were trying to intervene, but unfortunately, it was too late. After stabbing him, Jaya just immediately booked it. She ran out of this deli all the way to her apartment so fast and, like, so frantic that she left the knife behind that she had used to stab him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Police were then called to the deli, where they found Ray with multiple stab wounds all over his chest, his neck, and his arms. He was transported to a hospital, but unfortunately, Ray didn't survive it. Now, in a heartbreaking detail, which you would see this on some of the video news coverage that's out there, but it's like these things always kind of make it feel more real to me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
And I don't know if that's the right way to describe it, but it just kind of makes you realize how short life is and how quick something can happen. Because as he was being transported in the ambulance away from the deli to the hospital, you could see his mail delivery truck just still parked waiting outside the deli.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
He literally thought he was just going to hop out of his truck, walk in, grab a sandwich, then continue his mail route, not at all knowing that he literally was going to be stabbed by this frantic, crazy customer and lose his life. All I'm going to say is he was a nice young man.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But then it'll also be available the following day on YouTube. So just a little, you know, happy new year, happy 2025 to you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
It didn't take long for the police to find Jaya, and they arrested her at her apartment. And when they did, and when they started looking into her history, as it turns out, Jaya actually has a very violent history, specifically with knife violence. See, Jaya has been arrested five times previously in connection with knives.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
One time, she waved a box cutter at somebody when she was in Midtown, and when she did, she shouted, I'm gonna cut him! She also allegedly played a role in a robbery where she used knives to try to take a man's phone and wallet. So I mean, definitely a violent history with knives. Speaking back to Ray, the victim in all this. He's leaving behind family and friends. He was a father of two.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
He was, you know, a great person in the community. He was remembered as a good man, a family man. His brother gave an interview and said, and I quote, Another person also spoke out, a man that Ray delivers mail to, who described Ray as really nice, saying that he went out of his way for the locals.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
And just, again, to think that this man lost his life over a sandwich order, it is insane and so senseless. And Jaya is currently awaiting trial, and she's been charged with murder, so it's unclear if she has taken a plea deal of any kind or if she's even gotten a lawyer yet or if she has a public defender. I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
I just got to say, all you listeners out there have been very active on social media the last couple of weeks because when I tell you the amount of times I have been tagged in certain videos or shorts or TikToks or cases asking for me to talk about them, I have been like blown away.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But this is just another case of something that should never have even happened. and someone who lost their life for really no good reason. So I hope that justice is served and I hope that the loved ones of Ray are finding peace and beginning to heal. Okay, now the next case I want to talk about is truly insane and it kind of gives me Taylor Shabizness vibes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
If you are familiar with that case, if you're not, please do not Google it. It'll make you want to vomit and it will also enrage you. But I did cover it. So you can just search that name and my name and you'll be able to find the episode. But yeah, her last name was Shabizness.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But anyway, this story is crazy because a woman was reportedly telling her friends that her boyfriend was threatening her with a weapon. And then literally one day later, she was found not only dead, but decapitated. So 32-year-old Craig Allen Nichols Jr. was arrested in South Dakota. This was after three women decided they were going to go check up on their girlfriend.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But when they went there, instead of finding her healthy, well, and alive, they found her decapitated. They literally went inside and found her body with no head attached. I mean, can you even freaking imagine? So this all went down on January 2nd, and the victim was Craig's girlfriend, 41-year-old Heather Ann Bowden.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
Now, the day before her friends found her, as I mentioned, she sent a text message to her friends saying that Craig was threatening her with a weapon. Then, after that text was sent, her friends didn't hear from her for about 24 hours. So the three friends talked to each other and decided to go meet up at Heather's apartment and check on her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But nothing prepared them for what they found inside, because that's when they made the horrifying discovery of their friend's body. They immediately called the police, and the full investigation was launched. I mean, right away. Police quickly got security camera footage from her apartment complex. They started looking at footage from the night before.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
They were really trying to figure out what kind of monster could have done this. So as they were scouring this footage, on that camera, there were three men, one of them being Craig. They're seen arriving at Heather's apartment complex. They apparently all did drugs together, and then the two men are seen leaving on camera with Craig staying behind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
But the two men, who were later interviewed, said that Heather was definitely alive when they left her apartment. So as they continue searching all this footage, later on the security camera footage, Craig is seen leaving and coming back to the apartment. And in that footage, he's carrying two trash bags. This is between 2 and 6 a.m., and he makes this trip back and forth several times.
Serialously with Annie Elise
230: TikTok’s Ashley Trevino, GF Found Decapitated, Lively vs Baldoni, Stabbed Over a Sandwich & New Orleans Attack
So then, after searching Heather's apartment, police easily found the trash bag that had Heather's head inside of it. They also found another trash bag with bloody clothing that were labeled as belonging to Craig. Also in the trash bag were three weapons that were wrapped inside a floor mat. Now, I can't even begin to describe the brutality of this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So now he's also being accused of raping a minor, which is very interesting because we also know he groomed Micah from a very young age. So I'm going to talk to you all about the newest updates coming out in that case, but first we are going to take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.
Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So you can really start loving your hair again. I started taking Nutrafol probably eight months ago because like I said, I noticed my hair just, it was shedding a little bit. It wasn't as strong as it used to be. It was between stress, aging, changes in my routine, just honestly life in general.
Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
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Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
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Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And look, everyone's root causes of hair thinning are different, so a one-size-fits-all approach doesn't always cut it. And Nutrafol has multiple formulations tailored to different life stages, such as postpartum and menopause, even different lifestyles, including plant-based diets. So building a hair growth routine is simple.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
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Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Not just that, they had to really put the cherry on top of being an evil, vile human being, and they forced his siblings to also wail on him and beat him up like as if they couldn't get any more disgusting. We're going to talk a little bit about the tragic death of Gene Hackman and some...
Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Okay, I think we can all agree that the human body is an incredible machine. It repairs, it grows, it adapts in ways that we are still learning about, even in 2025. But as we age, myself included, those natural processes, they slow down. It is totally normal, but it also doesn't mean that there's nothing that we can do about it. And that is where Ancient Nutrition comes in.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
They have their multi-collagen advanced lean formula that is designed to help you look and feel your best. I started adding Ancient Nutrition's multi-collagen advanced lean into my morning routine probably about, I don't know, three months ago, I would say now. And I have to say, I just love how convenient it is and how easy it is to incorporate.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Whether it's in my morning tea or a smoothie, it just blends seamlessly and it actually tastes great. Plus, I've even noticed my skin looking healthier and clearer and like brighter. My joints feel better overall. My hip used to hurt a lot when I would wake up and I could just tell I was getting old. So it's a simple step that really makes a big difference in how I feel every day.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Ancient Nutrition's mission is to create high quality supplements that combine the best of ancient wisdom and modern science. Their multi-collagen advanced lean formula contains 10 types of collagen from 10 real food-based sources, plus clinically studied ingredients that promote fat loss, healthy weight management, and lean muscle building. Collagen doesn't just support muscle.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
It can also reduce joint discomfort and improve the look and growth of your skin, hair, and nails. So it's super easy to add to your daily routine. As I said, you just mix it into your coffee, your matcha, your tea, your smoothie, and you are good to go. And right now, Ancient Nutrition is offering 25% off your first order when you go to ancientnutrition.com slash AE.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
That's ancientnutrition.com slash AE for 25% off your first order. ancientnutrition.com slash AE. Okay, so here we go. Let's get into the John Paul Miller of it all. If you guys are familiar with the Micah Miller case, there was recently this little bombshell update that was dropped about her husband, John Paul Miller, because he has been accused of rape.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But before I get into all of that, I do want to give a short recap on Micah Miller for those who are not familiar with it. And I also will link a deep dive into the Micah Miller case in this episode so that if you are intrigued and if this piques your interest, you can go take a listen. But basically, Micah was a woman from North Carolina, and she was found dead in a state park last April.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Her death was ultimately deemed a suicide, but her family was not buying it, and neither was a lot of the public or the media. A lot of people believed that her husband, John Paul Miller, was the cause and root of Micah Miller taking her own life, taking a gun and choosing it, because...
Serialously with Annie Elise
249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
theories and some speculation going on as to what may have been the cause because while there are still not a lot of answers initially they ruled it and said that there was not foul play suspected but now they're questioning and saying they do think that the death is suspicious especially when the dog piece of it is involved so we'll touch on that briefly we also are going to talk about the infamous alexander brothers and we talked again about them a while back not in a
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
He really came into the spotlight when she was found dead because the two of them had been going through a very tumultuous divorce. And many also believed that he was abusing her. He was tracking her. He was controlling her. He was brainwashing her. And there was definitely a lot that was circulating around this guy.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
However, I will say, police have always maintained that Micah's death was a suicide and that there was no solid evidence linking John Paul to her death. But like I said, the relationship, he was accused of grooming her in the church from a very young age, and he actually cheated on his previous wife with Micah while she was young, while she was in the church, while he was grooming her.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So then it was almost as though history was repeating itself, and when Micah I mean, I don't know how else to say it. Aged out, I guess you could say, but got older and he started looking at other people, cheating. He is a narcissist, in my opinion, and he started tracking her. She has allegations and written documentation where she noticed GPS on her car, where he was controlling their finances.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
He was brainwashing her. He was manipulating her. to where she was so fearful of her life, she felt like there was no escape other than to take her own life. So again, I will link the deep dive because it is a very interesting, fascinating case. To me, it kind of gives, what does it give? It gives Barry Morphew meets...
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
drew peterson not to be confused with scott peterson meets i don't know who's another scumbag husband i don't know those are two great examples but it just kind of shows too that he's had like a history of being a creep and a sketchy guy so now even though people haven't really talked much about the micah miller case in the last several months
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Now, an anonymous woman from Indiana recently dropped a complete bombshell because she alleges that John Paul raped her back in 1998 when he was 19 years old and she was only 14 years old. John Paul was reportedly working as a youth church leader at the time of this. And remember, it all goes back to the church, right? I'm not saying with every case, but with JP. It all goes back to the church.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
That's where he met Micah. That's where he started grooming her. All of these things. Now, the complaint also talks about JP's father, as well as the All Nations Cathedral Church and Solid Rock Ministries. Now, JP's father was the one in charge of the church that this girl was attending at the time. And the woman remembers the day that the assault happened very vividly.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
She alleges that JP took her into his father's office, that he immediately started being sexually aggressive, and that when the girl started refusing him, he allegedly took her out to his truck where he then raped her. And this is just a snippet of the woman's attorney describing what happened. So take a listen.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So the complaint says that, quote, behind their religious facade, J.P. Miller and his dad engaged in sexual abuse and predatory conduct, often targeting minors. They used their positions of power to manipulate and exploit vulnerable victims while concealing their actions from the public. The woman is suing for negligence, civil conspiracy, assault and battery and infliction of emotional distress.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So some people, of course, are like, okay, well, why did she wait so long to talk about this? Why did she bring it up now? Why didn't she bring it up earlier? But we have seen so many cases where women have trouble coming forward simply because they're scared that nobody's going to believe them, that they would just rather move forward and forget.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Or, you know, because there was such a power imbalance that the victim thinks they can't come forward. However, in this case, the anonymous woman said that she finally came forward because of another alleged assault in 2023, also an assault by J.P. Miller. She said that in 2023, the two of them ran into each other at Myrtle Beach.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
When she saw John, he leaned in to give her a hug, but then out of nowhere, he stuck his hand down her pants and started touching her genitals. Take a listen.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
you know, buy and sell all sorts of luxury real estate and they have been accused of horrific sexual assaults and like massive amounts. So we are going to talk about some updates going on with them. And there's just a lot we got to go through. So I'm going to shut up. I'm going to put the zipper on my mouth now for a moment and I'm going to get right into it.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And then when the woman confronted him about it, he allegedly tried to defend his actions by using a Bible verse, which give me a motherfucking break right now. Like, I can't. He said, quote, God understands that. I mean, are you for real? Be for real right now.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
You're going to use scripture and Bible verses to excuse you putting your hands down a woman's pants uninvited and say, oh, no man is without sin and consequences. God understands it. It's okay. The audacity of this man.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And this, again, you really gotta go listen to the deep dive, guys, because this just illustrates to me, again, one more nail in his sorry-ass coffin that he is a narcissist, that he thinks he can literally get away with anything.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So this disgusting encounter that she had with him is what finally made her realize what happened to her when she was 14, and I guess it's what finally made her kind of process what all of it was and what it all meant.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The lawsuit alleges that the Millers and other church figures had a pattern of covering up abuse over the years in the church, even going as far as calling it John Paul's sexual playground. Now, in addition to the 2023 assault, the woman's lawyer said that the death of Micah Miller is really what pushed this woman to finally report what happened.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The woman said that Micah's death gave her this deep-rooted feeling of guilt, and she wonders if she had reported JP sooner, if maybe it could have done anything or somehow changed the outcome of what happened to Micah. The woman's lawyer said that her main goal is to bring this to light so that it never happens to another woman again.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The last time we talked about him was November of 2024, and the reason we talked about him was because his house had been raided by the FBI and he was arrested. Now, at that time, police said that he was facing assault charges that were unrelated to Micah's death. He ended up being released on bond, but since then, there have not really been any updates on those assault charges. So far, J.P.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
hasn't responded to these new accusations either, and neither has his attorney or anyone in his family. So, you know, I will definitely be keeping an eye on this for updates. And I want to know what you guys think about this. It's like, again, the expression, if it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck. It's a fucking scumbag J.P. Miller. I mean, honestly, like...
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
How bad of a track record does this guy have to have to realize that he is, like, a skeezy, gross, disgusting human being? I apologize for cussing, but, you know, sometimes I get carried away here. Unfortunately, it's like, I don't know what the exact statute of limitations are, but even with Micah's death, it was ruled a suicide.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
With this, I don't know if he can be prosecuted for the actual sexual assault itself, but it's like, this guy keeps getting away by the skin of his teeth, and... I'm ready for him to just like, you know, have a, in his words, come to Jesus moment and realize that the house of cards are falling down on him because I'm so over this guy. I am so over this guy.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And I want to start with these parents because these parents, as I said, are now facing charges for zip tying their 10 year old child's hands, then forcing siblings to just beat him up. So Let's talk about it. Now, this story is definitely a crazy one. And I honestly cannot even wrap my head around it as a parent, as a human being, as just a normal person.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
He is just, in my opinion, a predator through and through. Now let's talk about some other predators that are on the streets out there, these real estate moguls, the Alexander brothers, because they're now facing even more sexual assault charges. We now have some updates on these real estate mogul brothers, and they're currently facing civil and criminal sexual assault charges.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And they're now in total facing up to 24 lawsuits, but they also are still awaiting trial for federal sex trafficking charges. So investigators in total have spoken to over 60 alleged victims so far. And now the last time we talked about them, it was on a headline highlight episode back in December. And they are just such creeps. But let me give you a recap of what went down with them.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So there are three Alexander brothers. Two of them are twins, Elon, Oren, and an older brother named Tal. They're all in their late 30s. So Tal and Oren worked as top real estate brokers, mostly in New York and in Miami. And then Alon worked with their family's private security firm. Now, if you don't remember, these guys lived a life that is like total luxury through and through.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
I'm talking mansions, private planes, boats, partying, like there's no tomorrow. And look, I'm just going to say it. They probably went to a freak off or two if they were in Miami. Just going to throw it out there. But as it turns out, they would use all of these luxuries that they had at their fingertips to lure women in and then make these women their victims.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
They would drug them, rape them, sex traffic them. They would find these women at parties or on social media and convince them to go on these lavish luxurious trips all around the world or come attend their massive huge parties. But these women would usually show up and just end up getting sexually assaulted.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Investigators also talked about how there were group chats between the brothers, with all of them talking about which drugs they had available, what drugs they could use on these women, like how they could help each other out and like do each other a solid. The brothers would all work together, even with other men, all with the same goal of just being absolute gross sexual predators.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And then when people started taking a closer look, the Alexander brothers had sexual allegations against them going all the way back to high school. These guys were just getting worse and worse and more confident over the years with nobody stopping them.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And if you want a more in-depth explanation of their history and those allegations, you can listen to that Headline Highlights episode, and I will remember to try to link it directly in the show notes of this episode.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
so the brothers are currently all still being held in jail in new york originally they did make bail but then the judge rejected it and they all had to stay locked up due to the severity of all the accusations and of course the fact that these charges are federal and ever since they were first arrested in december more and more women have come forward to share their stories. But that's not all.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The lawsuits that have now been filed are even now naming the brothers' parents, the Alexander family business, Douglas Elliman, which is the real estate firm that the brothers used to work at, and also somebody in the Hamptons who owned a property that they would throw a lot of these parties at.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The lawsuit says that Douglas Elliman, the real estate firm, enabled these brothers to act like this, to let them continue their little sex trafficking ring. The lawsuit went on to say that the executive of Douglas Elliman knew all about what the brothers were doing too, but never intervened. And another main enabler that the lawsuit named was the boys' parents.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Allegedly, his parents were a massive part of the problem in all of this, and the lawsuit said that, "...could not and would not have sex trafficked all of these women without the financial and other resources that were provided by their parents." Which this is crazy if this is true, right?
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But a couple in Indiana are facing child neglect charges. And you truly are going to be shocked when I tell you why. Because police are saying that these parents tied up their 10-year-old son did not feed him, and then literally told his siblings to beat him up, which this is just beyond demented because why are you even parents if you are also using your children to beat up your other children?
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Again, it's all alleged at this point, but alleging that these people in power knew about what was going on and they did nothing. Which, I mean, I guess when you really break it down, it's not all that surprising, especially when you think back to what's going on in Hollywood and how much people are covering up for people there.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. It is Thursday, which means we are doing headline highlights and boy oh boy, do we have a lot to talk about. And don't worry, I've been seeing all the DMs. I appreciate all of you guys checking in on me.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But still, it also doesn't matter if they're your sons, they're your precious little boys. Like, condoning this behavior is gross. But again, it's all just alleged at this point.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Now, just this past week, seven more women have come forward with allegations against the brothers, and they were also all filed in New York, which, let me just tell you, the experiences that these women are sharing, it's just absolutely spine-chilling, to say the least.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
And just a trigger warning here, I am going to share their alleged assaults so that you can understand the true gravity of the situation here. One woman said that in 2017 in Miami, Elan drugged her and tried to force her to have sex with him. This woman said no, telling him that she was on her period.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But when she refused him, he allegedly ripped her tampon out and started forcing her to perform oral sex on him. One woman also said that she attended one of their luxurious Hampton parties and that she was given a drink by one of the twin brothers. She passed out after the drink, and when she woke up, the twins, both of them, were on top of her, taking turns assaulting her.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Weeks later, she says she realized that she was pregnant, and then one of the men who brought her to that party ended up paying for her abortion. A woman named Laura Buck also said that she was assaulted by the brothers in New York in 2010. She went on a dinner date with Tal, the oldest of the brothers, and then after that date, he sexually assaulted her.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Laura also said that the other brother, Oren, and some other man, they watched and they filmed as this entire thing went down. Laura said that the next day she went to the hospital and she also spoke with the police, but they never filed a police report. She even started contacting friends of the Alexander brothers and even reached out to their mother to tell them what happened.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But, surprise, surprise, nothing happened. The lawyer representing Laura said that she literally screamed it from the hilltops, but nobody cared. And these are just a few of the assaults that women have come forward with, and these men are just beyond sick.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So, I would imagine, even though it's all, again, alleged at this point, I would imagine that some of these charges are going to stick because... I don't think this many people, this many lawsuits, just are, you know, trying to target these guys for no reason and that they are without credibility. I doubt it.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The brothers' parents have not released any statements or response to the accusations, and the brothers are all pleading not guilty. Their lawyers have called the lawsuits outrageous and, quote, frankly, ridiculous. They continue to say that the brothers are innocent and that these women coming forward are all just trying to extort them, which only time will tell, but my belief is no, bro.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
I don't think that's the case. I mean, I'm sure this is not the end of hearing about what these brothers have done over the years. I frankly think it's just the beginning. But as of right now, they are staying behind bars and they're set to go to trial early next year. So we'll keep an eye on that for sure.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Now let's talk about the person who I loathe more than anything in the world or anyone in the world. The one who really catapulted me into true crime because I remember exactly where I was when this verdict was read. I remember my blood boiling and my hatred for her has no bounds. If you've guessed it and you guessed Casey Anthony, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, you are right.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
Then tying him up, not giving him food. I mean, it is pure evil. So the couple's names and their ages are 38-year-old Melody Rose Greenwood and 36-year-old Adam John Greenwood. They were arrested last week after they brought their 10-year-old son to the doctor for an exam. And this never ceases to amaze me because in so many of these child abuse cases...
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So many of you know how much I just detest this woman that when you noticed she was joining social media, when I tell you the amount of DMs that I got being like, are you okay? Have you seen this? What do you think? Like I appreciate you checking in on me because you know this woman just like irks my every fiber of my being. So Casey Anthony has joined social media.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
all while claiming to be an advocate. An advocate. Okay. Now, for those of you who don't know, Casey Anthony is the mother who was accused and then acquitted of murdering her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee Anthony, in 2008. Casey was 22 years old at the time, and she was charged because her two-year-old daughter, Kaylee Anthony, was found dead near Casey's parents' home.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
It also took a whole month after not seeing baby Kaylee for somebody to report her as missing. And then she was found dead. And the whole time this was going on, Casey was lying her ass off to the police, lying to the media. She was saying that she worked at Universal Studios. She never did. She was getting, all while Kaylee was missing, she was getting tattoos that say the good life.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
She was getting drunk. She was partying. She was writing bad checks. She was saying that it was Zanny the nanny. who abducted Kaylee. I mean, the list goes on. This woman is just, there needs to be a new word for her. You know what? You know, we take to Siri. Let's go. Here we go. Thesaurus. Siri, what's another word for vile?
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
appalling depraved despicable disgraceful disgusting horrid humiliated i like humiliating i like that i like that siri thank you um what did ariana say in the vanderpump reunion what was it i forget she called tom something
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
demented no wasn't that I can't remember if you remember let me know but it was good and that's what Casey is she's just like a freaking the scum on the toilet on the shit that the fly eats that the fly poops out that then a possum comes and eats and gets rabies from and then the rabies infects
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
you know a bat and then the bat infects the world I don't know she's just disgusting okay sorry I'm going off the rails I'm going off the rails so anyways the reason I'm so mad is not only because what she allegedly did to her daughter but because she was acquitted and like like I said I remember where that where I was when that verdict was read and it's just unbelievable to me
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
During the trial, the defense was saying that Kaylee had drowned in the backyard in the swimming pool of Casey's parents' house, George and Cindy Anthony, and that it wasn't Casey's fault. Casey also has since accused her parents of covering up her daughter's death by burying her body close to their home.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
She also has accused her own father, George, of sexually abusing Kaylee starting from when she was a little kid, and... George has continued to deny this allegation. Prosecutors, on the other hand, had said that Casey used chloroform to poison and kill Kaylee, and then pointed out all of the different lies that she spewed during the investigation.
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But, for whatever reason, in 2011, Casey was very controversially found not guilty. The only thing that she was even found guilty of was lying to the police. And Casey remained relatively quiet for years until she did this stupid ass Peacock documentary a couple years back, which I like just eviscerated her for on my channel.
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Maybe I'll link that to where I like pointed out all of the inconsistencies. But she tried to do this thing where it's like where the truth lies. And it was with Peacock and that's where she spoke out for the first time in like over a decade where she starts blaming her dad once again, where she says she's the victim in all of this and everything.
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we often see that when the abuse just escalates, escalates, escalates, it gets to a point of finally needing intervention from a medical team, from a doctor. So they either take them to the hospital, they take them for a local checkup at the doctor, they do something. And it's like,
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Even thinking about it, it just makes me so mad because this documentary was such a sham, and that's why I just dismantled it one by one. But ever since that documentary, that piece of trash, she has been relatively quiet. Thankfully, we like that. But now, she's decided, for whatever reason, that it's in her best interest to join social media.
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And not just join social media, but do the biggest rebrand I've ever seen in my entire life. Rebranding herself from alleged child baby killer to social legal advocate. I mean... Read the room. So she posted a video on TikTok on March 1st where she reintroduces herself as though she needs to introduce herself to anybody. And she says that she is a, quote, legal advocate.
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And here is the video that she posted. And even if you've heard it, I want you to listen to the whole thing because it is absolutely absurd. It's about three minutes long. You can fast forward if you don't want to listen to the whole thing. But listen to how she says things because I find it very interesting. She even alludes to the fact that she's going to speak out again against her parents.
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this moment is inevitable and why are you now showing concern and taking them to the doctor i believe it's because you need somebody to intervene and save their life because you've gone too far but it's almost like a blueprint for a lot of these cases but anyway these doctors saw that this little boy was extremely skinny so from there the red flag started going off and they accused the parents of neglect and abuse and the doctors immediately reported what they had found to the police
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So one thing that really got me here is when she says, I've been in the legal field since 2011. Actually, technically, Casey, you've been in the legal field since 2008 when you were on trial for murdering your daughter, your toddler daughter, by the way.
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And I also don't understand how she thinks she's going to, quote, advocate for her daughter when she's like, you know, as a legal advocate, I'm realizing that it's important that I also advocate for myself and for my daughter Kaylee. No. Leave Kaylee's name out of your dirty, trashy mouth. How are you advocating for your daughter?
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You are a killer who walked free, in my opinion, and now you're advocating for your victim, your own victim. Are you insane? It's like, I don't even think the word is narcissist at that point. Maybe it is, but there's got to be like something else like compounded narcissism or complex narcissism. Like, you're going to advocate for your own victim? Be for real. Be for real.
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And then she just starts talking about how she's advocating for herself. Like, no. No, no, no, no, no. You are not advocating for yourself. Nobody invited you here. You can't sit with us. Like, get off social media. I also think it is disgusting that she's joining social media where she is going to try to monetize. Because TikTok, you can monetize on. You join the creator's program.
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It's not like you make a ton of money, but you definitely do make money. She also is going to be on, which, by the way, I just started a sub stack. I really enjoy it. Mine is totally free. It's at Annie Elise. You should go over there. It's like where you can post like more newspaper type true crime stuff. So whatever. But she's joining sub stack, which I'm going to be really curious to see.
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See what she's using Substack for. But my point is, both of these platforms are monetized. So you mean to tell me she's now going to make money off these platforms using the story of her murdered child? It is sick. And she also said, quote, Uh, no, nothing was thrust upon you. You are just psycho and despicable. Then saying she's standing up for women's rights, for the LGBTQ community.
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No, I'm sorry. Get out of here. And if you watched the video of this TikTok, which if you haven't, you should after this, but it's my opinion that this was all crafted very strategically, which of course her like long-winded speech was crafted and scripted, no doubt about that, and she probably practiced it a million times, but I'm talking about even the angle.
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So the authorities went to their home to go check on this little boy and follow up on this visit, and that's when they saw that he had seven other siblings. Which, honestly, I'm just glad that this is a case where the family was reported and the cops immediately took it seriously and went and checked up on this child, because there are so many cases and instances where nobody does anything.
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Because in this speech that she gives, she not only talks about being a legal advocate, but she talks about how she wants to advocate for the LGBTQ community and how women's rights and all of that. And her phone doesn't move really during this, which makes me think it's fixed on the dash, which a lot of people do. But her arm is positioned in a way where you can see a tattoo on her bicep area.
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And I can't read what it exactly says, but it definitely looks to me to be a pride tattoo. There's rainbow, there's red text. And I just think that this is one more piece of her trying to flip the script, trying to be strategic to where it's like subtly in view, but not overly obvious. And then she's mentioning that she wants to advocate for this community.
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And I think she's trying to garner sympathy and like I don't even know what the right word is. Like people think oh wow like look she even has a tattoo for it. Like it's just gross. I don't think anything that this woman does is genuine, is believable, or pure. Not at all. She also goes on to say that what happened in 2008 was a curse.
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Like she referenced the death of her own daughter which by the way she probably caused that that was a curse. She says that the hate and the ridicule that she has gotten since then is a curse, which no, no girl, you did it all to yourself. So like I said, she also then loops in how she's starting Substack and that she's going to use TikTok to promote her Substack.
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And Substack is basically a page where there's an email address that she says people can communicate with her about legal matters. It's also where you can post editorial type content, video content.
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live streaming things like that it's just it used to be more used with like newspapers and publications but now influencers and creators are getting on there so again it's free go check it out I'm on substack I even posted there the day that I saw that Casey Anthony joined social media where I just went off because over there I'm able to post in real time too I don't have to worry about like recording editing or anything like that so again you can go check it out but my biggest question in all of this is like
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Who would even want to take legal advice from you? Who is out of their mind enough that they would take legal advice from you? I mean, I guess technically, yes, you did get away with murder. So maybe there's something to it. But I don't think that was your brilliant mind. I think that was your scumbag attorney, Jose Baez. But who knows? I do think it's crazy, though, too.
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Even more than that is the fact that when I checked last, she had 50,000 followers on TikTok. Show your faces. Show your faces. If you are somebody who is following her, go ahead and unsubscribe from me right now because we should not be giving this woman a platform to spew any nonsense. Not at all. So I want to know who these 50,000 people are because you got to go get your head checked.
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I mean, truthfully. It's just so crazy to me that 14 years later, after all of this went down, she's now putting herself back into the public eye, trying to get social media fame, trying to earn money off of it. Again, it seems narcissistic to me, but I don't know. I just can't believe that she would think that this is a good idea.
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And she is getting eviscerated online because she's had to turn her comments off, which, to me, I say, good, good. There was one comment, and I mentioned this in my— I posted on Instagram about this as well, and I mentioned it in that video— which you can follow me on Instagram. Again, I can post real-time updates there. It's the same handle, at underscore Annie Elise.
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But I saw a comment on one of these TikTok videos that I thought kind of made me laugh, but it also was really true. And it said something like, we may be divided as a country right now politically, but at least we're all united in our hatred for Casey Anthony. So to that, I say, united we stand. Like, I think we can all agree on that. So let me know what you guys think about all this.
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So all of the kids at this home were homeschooled, which is another... Telltale sign that we often talk about anytime children are it doesn't mean all the time if they're homeschooled I know a lot of people choose homeschooling for their own reasons which I completely respect and understand but when there also are signs and history or patterns of abuse happening in the home.
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I know we talked about a lot today. It seems like these episodes are getting longer and longer and longer. I also wanted to remind you, if you feel like you ever need more content to binge or you're running out of episodes, every Friday I put out extra exclusive content on Apple and on Patreon. You can get access on either one of those.
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Right now we have a library of about 75 episodes and they're deep dives. They're like, well, I should say they're more mini deep dives, but they're on a single case. It's extra content. Last week, we talked all about Brian Laundrie and the conspiracies about him being alive still, about the documentary that came out about Gabby Petito, all of that stuff.
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The week before that, we talked about this Thailand serial killer, but she was like the best friend serial killer. She would literally like poison her best friends. We talked all about that.
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And then this week, we're talking about a group of college students in Massachusetts who reenacted their own version of the TV show to catch a predator through TikTok and how it ended up being such an epic disaster. How so many people have been like implicated now in this and it's wild. So that one comes out this Friday.
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Other than that, I will be back with you first thing Monday morning with an all new deep dive. And if you didn't listen to the deep dive this last Monday, you definitely should. I mentioned how I watched Apple Cider Vinegar a few weeks ago on Netflix, but how while I was watching it, I was also like simultaneously on Reddit.
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on Google, on social media, trying to find every detail about Belle Gibson that I could. And there was so much that was left out of the Netflix series. Like we always say, right? They never leave it, put it all in. So I did a huge deep dive on Belle on Monday. And you can listen to that right now because it's out. So if you watched Apple Cider Vinegar, you may be interested in that.
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Even if you haven't, you should definitely listen. It's about this influencer who literally fooled everyone and conned millions and millions of dollars. She conned Apple like it's bizarre. So you can go check that out. All right, guys. Other than that, that's all I got for today for Headline Highlights. If you are not following the podcast yet, please take a quick second to do it. It is free.
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It's in whatever podcast app you're listening on. Just follow it so that you don't miss episodes. And as a little surprise, we did release a bonus episode yesterday about Gabby Petito. This is in addition to the one we did last week about Brian Laundrie. But it's about the big major key detail that Netflix left out of this documentary, of this docuseries.
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Why didn't they talk about Brian flying home to Florida after the Moab incident and then flying back to Salt Lake City to be with Gabby? And what transpired in those five or six days? And so I'm talking all about that in that episode. So that was a little bonus upload that we did yesterday.
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But again, follow the podcast so that you don't miss those little bonus episodes because little secret, not so secret. There will be another one next week. So anyways, other than that, if you have an extra 30 seconds and you want to support the podcast for free, you can do that through Apple and leave a rating and review. All right. That's all I got. I'm going to shut up now.
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Have a great rest of your week, guys. I will talk with you again Monday and until the next one. Be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults. Don't go near J.P. Miller and his skeezy ass. And please, please, please do not follow Casey Anthony. All right. Thanks, guys. Bye.
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we oftentimes see that the child, or in this case, all of the children are homeschooled because they don't want teachers seeing anything, any sort of suspicious activity, somebody noticing maybe a bruise, a mark, a behavior change, long sleeves in the summertime, things like that.
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So when they approach this home and they see that all of these children are being homeschooled, and also they see that the dynamic between the entire family was a little off-putting, I'll say, that's when alarm bells really started to go off. So when confronted about their son, they said that he was being punished because he was grounded.
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The mom also said that his diet mostly consisted of canned foods, vegetables and protein. The 10 year old was also not allowed to eat any snacks or have any junk food. Those were the rules. However, what was interesting is that every other sibling in the family was allowed to eat normally.
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The parents let all of these other kids eat snacks, eat junk food, fast food, I mean literally whatever they wanted. They only singled out this one young 10-year-old boy. So then the siblings started talking to the police and sharing, you know, more of the details and not really masking the truth like the parents were trying to mask.
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And the siblings told the police that in addition to being tied up and in addition to the bizarre restrictions on his food, this 10-year-old boy was also forced to stand up against the wall for 10 to 12 hours a day, all because of his behavior.
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If the boy turned around or if he talked at all at any point during this, the parents would then tell his siblings and instruct his siblings that they needed to beat him up as a punishment. The kids also said that one night their parents zip-tied the boy's hands for an entire night. One of the police officers noted in their report that they saw scars and marks on this little boy's wrists.
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And I mean the abuse, it just goes on and on and on. This little boy, he wasn't allowed to play games, he wasn't allowed to watch movies, he wasn't allowed to play video games like the rest of his siblings were. and also these hours that he was just standing up straight against the wall, not moving, his parents would put a towel on top of his head.
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I mean, this is what they claimed to be their form of discipline, which I don't understand what makes a parent treat their child like that. And literally to also instruct his siblings to beat him up and turn them all against him? It is sick. It is like some kind of twisted punishment for all of them, because... Obviously, the kids don't enjoy participating in this either.
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I know Casey Anthony joined social media and... Oh my god, do I have some thoughts. So we are certainly going to talk about that, not only about her joining social media, but her approach to all of it, what I believe she's trying to do very strategically and calculated and gross. And we're going to talk about all of that.
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I just don't understand why they singled out this one particular child so much either. I mean, even if he did have behavioral problems, sure, ground him. Take away his phone. Take away the computer. You don't wail on him. You don't instruct his brothers and sisters to do that. You don't starve him. You don't zip tie his hands. This is just beyond parental intervention and punishment.
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So the mother, Melody, is facing three counts of neglect and Adam is facing two counts. The two of them were released from jail after paying their bond, which infuriates me because Melody's bond was only set at $15,000 while Adam's was set at only $10,000. But the Department of Child Services said that the investigation is ongoing.
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i tried to find information to see if the children were still in their custody but i couldn't find clear information on it although i would assume that they probably have been removed from the custody because anytime there is some sort of investigation with cps usually especially if there are charges the children have been removed from the home but again i couldn't quite get a read on that and get accuracy so i'm hopeful that that's the case but i can't say with certainty which
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is also very alarming considering that they made bail, that their bail amounts were so small, and that they could potentially have access to their children. Although, again, I don't think that they do.
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But cases like this where not only are parents abusive towards their children, but then they turn the entire family against a child, it breaks my heart because this 10-year-old kid, I would imagine, probably assumed a lot of this was his fault, that he deserved it, that He was singled out because something was wrong with him and that his siblings were more loved than him.
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And that is just heartbreaking to try to wrap your mind around. Anybody who just is excluded that way, especially by parents, their loved ones, people who are supposed to protect and love them, it just adds this very unsettling layer on top of all of it.
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Now let's quickly talk about the mysterious death of Gene Hackman, his wife, and their dog, because there have been a lot of questions about this, and I'm not going to go into a crazy amount of detail, but I do want to talk about it because a lot of you have been asking my thoughts on it, and it definitely is a hard story to wrap your head around because it is super mysterious.
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But as I said, famous actor Gene Hackman was found dead last week, and it wasn't just him. His wife and his dog were also found dead, which was crazy because all three of them were found deceased in the home. And first, I just want to mention too how sad this is because I'm sure most of you guys do know who Gene Hackman is, even if the name doesn't ring a bell.
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He's been in movies like The French Connection, The Royal Tenenbaums, Welcome to Mooseport, my personal favorite, Heartbreakers. I don't know if you guys saw that movie. He's the one who has like the smoking and the hacking, and he's the old guy that they try to like, you know,
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con and all that but anyway so he was in all these movies but then in 2004 he just totally disappeared from the Hollywood scene he stopped acting completely and then he moved to New Mexico to live a quiet life with his wife I guess he just wanted to get as far away as possible from that movie star type lifestyle I'm not sure but that's exactly what he and his wife did now his wife who by the way was around 30 years younger than him her name was Betsy Arakawa and she was a classical pianist
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But we also have some more updates to talk about in other cases, as well as some breaking new cases. And one of the other updates that we're going to get to has to do with Micah Miller. You may remember that case from several months back. We talked about it. Don't worry if you don't know what I'm talking about. I will give a recap.
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So the two of them lived a very peaceful and quiet life right outside of Santa Fe. They had a home on about 12 acres of land that was tucked up in the mountains in a gated community and just lived peacefully. Family and friends said that the two of them loved each other very much, that they had a great relationship. They were married for 34 years.
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They said that Betsy took amazing care of Gene as well, despite Gene now being in his 90s. And despite that, they were both still in great shape and they stayed healthy throughout all of those years. They were also really liked and respected in the Santa Fe community.
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But then last Wednesday, the entire world was left shocked when it was announced that Jean, Betsy, and one of their dogs, just one, were discovered in their home dead. The three of them were found by maintenance workers with the front door left open. But the authorities are saying that they could have been dead for days, maybe even weeks before being found.
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Now what's so strange about this is how they were found dead, but in different rooms. And the reason I say that is because initially when we heard this news, I think when they had said, probably not foul play, we all suspected, okay, maybe carbon monoxide poisoning, maybe some other type of poisoning, maybe some sort of drug overdose, to where they were together.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But the fact that they were in different rooms, it does add a little bit of a mysterious layer to that a little bit, because... if it was something that was a freak accident or something of that nature, why weren't they together? And let me talk a little bit more before I get ahead of myself.
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So nothing is really confirmed or set in stone, but the police have said that the circumstances are what they are quoting, suspicious. Suspicious enough to launch an investigation into everything. So far, they've conducted an autopsy and they have searched the entire home, but a specific cause of death has not been determined or shared publicly so far.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
But her husband, John Paul Miller, is now right back in the throes of the spotlight because, once again, he has had some horrible accusations made against him. This time, he is being slapped with a lawsuit by a minor in regards to rape.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
On Jean and Betsy, there were no signs of trauma or bruising, and there were also no immediate signs of foul play, as I said. So, like I said, at first there were theories of the gas leak, maybe carbon monoxide, but there were also no signs of that. There were also some theories about an open pill bottle that was found near Betsy.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
The pill bottle was found open, and the prescription pills were kind of laying scattered around the room. But police later said that these pills were Tylenol, thyroid medication, and also a drug to treat high blood pressure. Certainly not anything like oxycodone or anything alarming. I mean, it's not very likely that all of those pills were the cause of death for all three of them.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
One thing that has been confirmed, though, from the autopsy is that the couple likely died nine days before they were found. Now, a lot of people believe that Gene could have died from natural causes, especially since he had a heart disease and a pacemaker.
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But what's kind of mind-boggling and on everybody's mind is how the wife and dog also passed away at the same time, in the same time frame at least. So police are saying that they're going through all of the cell phone records, the security cameras, the photos, just really any data that they can get their hands on so that they can piece everything together.
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But even if Gene did pass away of old age, natural causes, something to do with his heart and his pacemaker, remember Betsy was 30 years younger than him. And where does the dog come into play with this?
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Some people have suggested maybe it's like the notebook or something like that, that they were so in love, they were together for 34 years, that she couldn't live without him, so she took her own life after he passed away. That's possible. Then could the dog have passed away from starvation, from getting into the pills? I don't know.
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But the community and their close friends are, of course, devastated, and especially their families. Gene's kids said that this definitely came as a shock since, like I said before, he was still, even though he was in his 90s, he was in great physical shape. Betsy and Gene would do yoga, they would go to Pilates, and Gene was even still riding his bike up until a year ago.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So, I mean, it's all just very, very sad. A major loss for the world and for their families for sure. And everybody who has described Gene said he never acted like one of those famous Hollywood actors. One of his best friends even said that he didn't really care about himself. He was just more interested in getting to know other people.
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249: Casey Anthony SPEAKS, JP Miller Accused of Raping Minor, Luxury Real Estate Bros Sex Crimes, and Vile Parents Force Siblings to Beat Up 10 Year Old Son
So the investigation is still ongoing, and this is definitely something I will be keeping an eye on, and hopefully answers can be found. But until then, all we can really do is just send love to Betsy and Gene's friends and family, and hope that everybody is beginning to heal.
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Now I want to talk with you guys about Micah Miller and her husband, John Paul Miller, and the skeezy stuff he's been accused of, how a lot of people have suggested he's responsible for Micah's death. I believe he was as well, indirectly, not a murderer necessarily, but I guess you could call it murder by proxy in a way.
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So, a scumbag I think we can all agree on through and through, and again, I'll give a little more context into the backstory before I dive into all of that, but some other new cases breaking. We have some parents who have now been charged with neglect and abuse of their 10-year-old son, and
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It's just, it's clearly so impulsive, so in the moment, and why did he feel like he needed to be enlisted in this? And why did he offer up to, like, help her? Did he feel like he truly was saving her or rescuing her? It's bizarre. So anyways, Ashley and Scott hop off the bus with this murder plan of theirs that they have hatched, and they walk back to Ashley's house where she and Cody lived.
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And while they were walking, they got to know each other even more. They even stopped at one point to practice shooting Scott's gun. When they finally arrived at Ashley and Cody's home, Scott introduced himself to Cody as Ashley's brother from Texas, saying, hey, it's so nice to meet you, you know, I've heard so much about you.
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But then shortly after that, they shot Cody twice in the head, killing him. Now, the police haven't explicitly said which one of them shot Cody, but the next day, the police discovered Cody's body while they were performing a welfare check. Ashley and Scott, on the other hand, they stole Cody's wallet and they spent the next few days together in the area. But then Scott ditched.
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And if you're watching this on YouTube, then you know you're watching it on Fridays because there's unfortunately a delay because YouTube loves to just be like a thorn in my side and not approve things right away. So it gets released on Fridays over there. But you can always listen to it a day early on the podcast for free wherever you get your podcasts.
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He dipped out and left. And Ashley never saw him again. Which, that's so crazy to me too. It's like, you feel like you care about this girl so much. This stranger that you just met. So much so that you're going to commit murder for her or help her commit a murder. You go to all these lengths. You steal the wallet.
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You guys are like out, you know, Bonnie and Clyde for the next few days doing whatever you're doing. I don't know if they were hooking up or what was going on. But then he just ditches her and ghosts her.
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which I will say probably was for the best, but obviously there was some sort of connection or reasoning for wanting to help her with something so drastic and so final like murder, and then you're just gonna like peace out? I don't know. It's bizarre. So all in all, it definitely didn't take long for the police to look at Ashley as a suspect.
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Investigators interrogated Ashley, and immediately after questioning her, she ended up being arrested and charged with Cody's murder. It was then announced just this past week that she was found guilty of second-degree murder. This was after three weeks of trial. Her sentencing is set to take place on April 4th, and she's facing a maximum sentence of 48 years.
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Now, as for Scott, this mysterious Scott guy, he seemed to just disappear from the murder entirely, right? Well, actually, in 2023, an anonymous woman came forward to the police saying that she had a boyfriend named Michael Stratton. She said that Michael confessed to her that he was this alleged Scott character that was involved in Cody's murder.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So police said that the description that this anonymous woman gave to them was, in fact, almost identical to Ashley's story of what happened on the day of Cody's murder, too. So because of that, it must have been him. However, what's interesting is Scott had actually been arrested for another murder after Cody's death. So when this woman called the police, he was already in custody.
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Scott has not officially been charged with anything in relation to Cody's murder so far. It's kind of unclear what's going to happen with him there, if anything, but we do know that he is still in custody for this other murder that he allegedly is involved with. So again, all very twisted, very mysterious. I will follow it closely and update you when I know more. Now let's move into the next case.
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And we are talking about two of the most diabolical, selfish, narcissistic cult leaders, in my opinion, that we have encountered in the last decade. Even more so, I think. Hmm. Actually, do I want to say more than Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell? Maybe a close tie. Maybe a close tie. Because we're going to be talking about Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie.
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So now that I've kind of gotten all, you know, the admin out of the way, I want to jump right in. And I also want to give a quick note, little disclaimer. I have been getting a lot of feedback, not a lot, but a fair amount of feedback that despite me trying to slow down, I'm a fast talker by nature, that I'm still going a little bit too fast.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And if you know me, you know that I loathe these women so, so much. Okay, so the Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie rabbit hole, it just keeps going and going and going. And if you've been following along with this entire saga, it has been almost a year since Jodi and Ruby were sent to prison. But now, a brand new lawsuit has been filed.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So just to recap, and again, a new fresh deep dive, it is a coming, but you can always go back to the previous one. But to give you a recap, Ruby Frankie was a YouTube family vlogger, and her YouTube channel was called 8 Passengers. She had millions of subscribers, made tons of money, and...
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
advertised you know the traditional family vlogging all of her kids she would expose their most personal and private moments she would exploit them in my opinion it was disgusting and she ended up being convicted of hurting her children and she pled guilty to four counts of the abuse against her children which she ended up receiving four one to 15 year consecutive prison sentences for that and so did Jodi Hildebrandt Ruby's quote business partner mentor lover and
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She was also involved in hurting the children, so much so that one of the children who escaped had escaped from Jodi's house. So she also had pleaded guilty to the same charges and got that same sentence as Ruby. So they're both right now in jail writing out their time.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Now some of the things that Ruby and Jodi would do to Ruby's kids were forcing them to do manual labor, work outside without shoes on,
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
stand outside in the sun for days at a time I think one child was even forced to jump into a cactus bush she would they would deny them food and water and then as we saw and as it escalated they even eventually started restraining them tying them up I mean the list it just goes on and on
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So this new lawsuit has to do with Jodi and her business, and I'm saying business very, very loosely, air quotes and all, but her business called Connections Classroom. So this was like an online coaching platform, and Jodi was the head counselor. All of Jodi's podcasts and teachings pretty much are centered around what they describe empowering parents and children to live in truth.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Which, when you break it down, I'm not even sure what that means, but like I always compare it to, Scientology. If somebody says you need to live in truth or you are a distorted being or, you know, you need to get to your most elevated self, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, run, run, run, and definitely do not give them a single dollar of yours. Again, just my opinion.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Sorry for anybody who's a Scientologist listening, but that's just my vibe. It feels like cult. So this lawsuit was filed by a former client of Jodi's named Michael Tillman, and it says that Jodi used her platform to, one, cheat people out of money, and two, totally sabotage their families and relationships.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Michael said that Connections is a total scam, which, hello, no surprise, but he said it's all made to look like family counseling under the guise of that when really it's like about extortion, about pitting family members against each other, and really, in essence, just about having total control.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So Michael said that he believes that Jodi and Ruby lured people in under the guise of receiving therapy, then seemingly took their money and made them become a part of their crazy cult. And it's not entirely that surprising given what Ruby and Jodi are in prison for, right? So the lawsuit is 150 pages long and Michael is seeking almost $5 million in damages.
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I've had some people even say, I feel like I'm on double speed. I need to slow it down. So I'm really trying to make a concerted effort to like slow it down, pull it back, talk at a more reasonable pace. So I'm going to try my best, but I'm a work in progress. Okay, guys, I am a work in progress. I'm doing my best. So let me talk to you about the headlines we're going over today.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
The lawsuit alleges that Jodi brought people like Ruby into her connection circle and that she would then rely on these people to carry out all of her different therapy techniques, while also, of course, like a pyramid scheme, recruiting new members in. Then once people were roped in, Jodi and her workers would offer them therapy classes or different sessions for like astronomical prices.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And it would always work because Jodi and Ruby would just prey on people in the most vulnerable positions or people who were desperately seeking for help with different mental health issues, different emotional health issues, leaning on religion a lot because they were LDS.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And she would then use this to try to convince her clients to take it a step further, separate from their spouse, really empower what she calls empower, not me, their children by hurting them.
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torturing them manipulating them holding things away from them and she would kind of similar again to Scientology you know how what's the word if Scientologists say you um you have a family member or a friend who doesn't agree with you or that is living you know in a in distortion what do they call that oh a suppressed person so similar to that Jodi would say anybody who falls outside of these walls or these lines they are not living in truth
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So because of that you have to break ties with them you cannot be associated with them which once more let me just say if it is a real religion if it is a real group that is focused on bettering somebody and improving quality of life they will never try to isolate you from family they will never try to isolate you from friends.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Groups like that, like 7M, Scientology, Twin Flames, Connections, people who try to isolate you, it's because they want ultimate control over you. They want to brainwash you. They want to manipulate you. So I could go on and on about cults forever, but the reason I bring that up is I just want to stress to anybody who's listening, if somebody is ever trying to isolate you from your loved ones,
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for a reason other than these loved ones actually physically hurting you for whatever reason, do not listen. I mean, take it with a grain of salt, err on the side of caution because this is their tactic because then you isolate yourself and paint yourself into a corner so much that it feels as though you have nobody else you can rely on but these other members of this organization.
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And that's when you just start getting deeper and deeper and deeper, just like NXIVM2. I mean, again, I could go on and on. So this is what is alleged in the lawsuit. I know I went off on a tangent. I apologize. But he says they would, you know, isolate people, then they would prey on them, they would make them pay insane amount of money for treatment, all of these things.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And it also clearly worked on Ruby, right? I mean, she's a prime example of
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So at Ruby's sentencing, she fully said that she was manipulated to follow Jodi's guidance, and she said that she was wrong to hurt her children, which, if you haven't already heard her statement, I'm gonna play it right here because, while she acts remorseful, a lot of people, myself included, have brought into question the authenticity, and if she's truly being genuine in this, it just sounds a little bit performative.
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But you take a listen and let me know what you think.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
First, we're going to be talking about a case that I thought was not real. I thought it was AI. I thought that there's no possible way this could be reality. because it's about these two parents who literally starved and isolated their daughter for years, all to keep her looking like a little girl forever, like the perfect little ballerina.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So the lawsuit goes on to say that Jodi's antics literally tore apart and broke down families, all while Jodi and Ruby were making, you know, a boatload of money off of everybody. Michael said that he was personally impacted by Jodi's counseling too because his ex-wife sought out Jodi for help.
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Michael said that because of Jodi's teachings, his ex-wife physically abused and endangered their daughter. And according to Michael, his ex-wife is still a devoted follower of Jodi and connections. She doesn't think that she did anything wrong. She also doesn't think that Jodi and Ruby literally being sent to jail and convicted is proof of any wrongdoing.
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This just goes to show how strong the manipulation and the brainwashing can be. And this is even with Ruby herself saying that Jodi's teachings are wrong right there in court. The ex-wife still believes that Jodi is an amazing counselor.
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And then listen to this, and I'm not sure if you remember, but Ruby ended up kicking her husband out of the house, Kevin, because she wanted to keep following Jodi's teachings. Michael said that his ex-wife also kicked him out because he wanted her to stop the abuse, stop the teachings, all of that, but she just would not listen to him or anybody else.
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it just runs so deep and the brainwashing it went so far that in addition to the abuse of the kids jody would also encourage women to beat up their husbands in michael's lawsuit he talks about one instance where his ex-wife's sister was also dragged into jody's cult this woman was convinced that she had to inflict pain on her husband
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So this woman allegedly ripped off her husband's shirt, tried to attack him with a knife. She bruised him. She bit him. I mean, she attacked him. It's insane. So the woman ended up being charged with domestic battery. And that was kind of the end of that. It like was a chapter closed.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
But the reason for this attack, the woman was convinced that by attacking him, it would bring him to, quote, truth. Again, going back to all those buzzwords these cult leaders like to use, if I attack him, if I shake him, it'll bring him back into, out of distortion, into the light, into truth. Or what did Laurie and Vallow, what did Laurie Crazy Vallow say in Chad Dumbbell?
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Like, it would bring them out from being a zombie. Like, get a grip. Get a grip. Now, in response to all of this, Jodi still hasn't really taken any accountability for anything that she's done. I mean, in court, Jodi even said that the things that she was doing, she was doing all out of love. And it sounds like she fully believes that she has not done anything wrong. Take a listen.
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It's honestly disgusting and vile, so we're going to talk about all of that. We also are going to talk about a woman who apparently killed her boyfriend over in Colorado, all because he didn't have faith in her that she would be able to get a job. So because of that, she retaliated and was like, I'll show you. I'm, you know, I can get a job and I can kill you.
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And it just sounds like she fully believes that she hasn't done anything wrong. So I mean, this lawsuit has some pretty shocking details in it, but unfortunately, it's not really coming as that much of a shock to people who've been following this case.
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And it's now going to be in the decisions of the parole board to see just how long Jodi and Ruby will be in prison, which I hope that it is on the longer side of things. I don't think that four years is nearly enough, but that's just my opinion. All right, we are going to take a quick break, hear from today's sponsors of today's episode, and thanks for understanding.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And if you do qualify, people prescribed through Roe lose an average of 15% of their body weight in a year. That's huge. Plus, Roe-affiliated providers are there to help you understand if GLP-1s are right for you or not, so you're never alone in the process. Want to see if you qualify? Go to Roe.co.ae. That's R-O-C-O-A-E.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And if you want full safety info and boxed warnings on GLP-1s, go to Roe.co.safety. Over 385,000 people have already started using Roe to access GLP-1s, so check it out for yourself if you're interested. Roe.co.ae. Okay, so technically I don't have a cat, but my best friend's cat has basically become mine at this point. Anytime I'm over at her place, this cat is like glued to me.
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Probably if I'm being honest, because I'm the one sneaking them all the best treats, which don't tell. But recently I convinced my best friend to upgrade their cat's entire diet to smalls. And let me just tell you, this cat is living their best life now. Smalls is real food, like actual fresh protein-packed recipes with ingredients that you would find in your fridge.
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No weird fillers, no mystery meat, just high-quality meals delivered right to your door. And her cat knows the difference. We did even like a little fun project, a little taste test where we put their old food next to the Smalls, and they went straight for the Smalls. There was zero hesitation.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Since switching, they've also had fewer hairballs, a shinier coat, more energy, and honestly just feels like they're living their best kitty cat life. And they're not alone. 88% of cat owners say that they have seen major health improvements after switching to Smalls.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. And today it is headline highlights. You know what time it is. It is headline highlights, which means we have a lot to talk about.
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I mean, I'm not trying to make light of it, but it's a wild story. There also have been updates in the Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt case, which we talked about this a few weeks ago. We also have done many, many deep dives on the podcast and on my YouTube channel about this case. But there's a new lawsuit that has been pulled into the play here, so we're going to talk about that.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Plus, if your cat somehow isn't obsessed, which trust me, they definitely will be, Smalls offers a risk-free trial and will even refund you. So if you love your cat like I love my besties cat, get them the food that they deserve. Head to Smalls.com and use promo code AE at checkout for 50% off your first order plus free shipping.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
It's the best deal out there, but you have to use my code AE to get it. So one last time, that's Smalls.com promo code AE. Your cat will thank you. All right, so let's talk about Megan Boswell. Megan Boswell, the bane of my existence. Okay, maybe that's a little bit dramatic, but I really don't like her.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So Megan Boswell is a Tennessee woman who has been charged with murdering her 15-month-old daughter, Evelyn, back in 2020. And now, finally, after almost five years, her trial is finally starting. Now first, let me just give you a little recap about what happened with Megan and with her daughter Evelyn. It was February 2020, and Megan's baby went missing.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And when her daughter went missing, a nationwide Amber Alert went out. And as it turns out, no one in Megan's family had seen Evelyn since December of 2019. Yet nobody reported her missing until February of 2020. And it kind of goes a lot deeper than this, which I get into in some of my deep dives. But like she tried to blame it on her boyfriend who was at a military base at the time.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She also tried to then blame it on her mom. And then her mom ended up being arrested for something unrelated. It's like a very tangled web. So let me think. I either will link the deep dive that we did, even though it's kind of outdated, I guess, at this point. It's a couple years ago. Or if you want me to do a fresh deep dive, let me know. And I certainly can.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Because it is a very tangled web of, like, who cast blame, what she said, what really happened, who reported her missing, where Evelyn ended up being found on the property. I mean, it's wild. So one month after Evelyn finally was reported missing, police ended up finding her remains missing. And as I just mentioned, they were on a family member's property.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Authorities believed that baby Evelyn had been suffocated. There are also some very gruesome details in the way that her body was contorted when she was found, as though she literally was just stuffed in a garbage can as she was trash. It's disgusting. Now, since Megan's arrest in 2020, she has been held in the Sullivan County Jail.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Megan's trial started just this last Monday, and right now it's expected to last two to four weeks. They're currently doing jury selection, and Megan is facing a total of 19 charges. Oh, yeah, don't even get me started, actually. I know I just mentioned the web of everything. Her interviews while Evelyn was missing.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She went on air like a Chris Watts, which I know we always reference him, but whatever. But she went on air doing these interviews pleading for Evelyn to come home. It is unnerving when you watch it back. So yeah, maybe we do need a fresh deep dive. So anyway, she's facing a total of 19 charges.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
These charges include murder, child harm, child neglect, tampering with evidence, abusing a corpse, and false reporting to authorities. Because she, like Casey Anthony, it's like she ripped a page out of her playbook, which is lying to anybody who would listen.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So on Monday, they began screening for the potential jury members, but it's not going to be as easy as they thought because of how much media attention this case has gotten over the years. Also, I mean, just the severity of the case, it's going to be really difficult finding somebody who doesn't feel a little biased when they hear that a mother is being charged for murdering her baby daughter.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And I think that I might actually do a new, updated, fresh deep dive on them. The last deep dive I did was about a year ago, and it ended up being three hours long, which I don't think it needs to be that long. I think I can probably...
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
At the beginning of jury selection, the judge said that this jury will be sequestered, which basically means that the jury will be completely isolated from society to make sure that they don't get any sort of influence over them so that they don't hear anything, any, you know, outside sources, none of that.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
During the trial, the jury will be kept in a hotel and they will have little phone and television access. Now get this, apparently a judge ordering to keep a jury isolated hasn't happened in Sullivan County in 15 to 20 years. I mean, it's not entirely surprising given how extreme this case is, but still, it is a pretty bit bold move.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So potential jurors were questioned on Monday, and 22 out of the 40 said that they already did have a lot of knowledge about the case. Some said that they not only knew about the case, but also had already made up their minds about whether Megan was guilty or not. So again, finding a set of unbiased people in terms of this alleged murderer is definitely not going to be an easy task.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
News Channel 11 said that they are going to provide daily coverage of the trial, so I will definitely be keeping an eye out for updates, and if you want that deep dive, for sure let me know. Now let me go into some happy news and I again just cannot even convey how happy this makes me because finally we are going to talk about a major and I mean major update in the case of Ellen Greenberg.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Just to give you a little recap if you're not familiar with this case it was 14 years ago. Ellen Greenberg was a school teacher in Philadelphia. She was only 27 years old. It was January 26, 2011, and at around 6.30 p.m., police got a phone call from Ellen's fiancé, Sam Goldberg. He called 911, and he said, quote, And here is a short snippet of that 911 call.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
trim it back a bit but I think we're going to do another deep dive because there have been updates in the last year and so you know me I like to just like rather than have all these piecemeal episodes that you have to listen to to be fully caught up I like every now and then just doing a fresh full episode where it's like you have all the information from start to finish if you're not familiar with the case so
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Now, as the 911 call goes on, he tells the police that a knife was actually sticking out of Ellen's chest and that she must have fallen on it or stabbed herself. Now, Dr. Marlon Osborne conducted the autopsy, and he immediately wrote down that she had so many stab wounds all over her body. To be exact, she had 20 stab wounds.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She also had bruises all over her body from earlier healing, past healing. Just, I'll leave it at that because it's all, again, alleged at this point if somebody did this to her. But he also wrote down, quote, stabbed by another person, and he deemed it a homicide. However, the Philadelphia police treated this entire investigation as a suicide, which make that make sense, right?
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
20 stab wounds also to the back of your head. And again, when I go through in the deep dive, all of the like red flags about how her lunch was still prepared on the counter, how the swing bar on the lock was closed. how the cousin came over, the fiance's cousin, I should say, came over before, while like all this was happening. It just makes no sense.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And again, this woman had 20 stab wounds and bruises, and her death was classified as a homicide by a medical examiner. So for some extremely odd reason, though, the police were just so set on the fact that Ellen did this to herself. so much so that they didn't even call the apartment a crime scene. It wasn't even closed off.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
By the time the investigators came back the second day to continue the investigation, the apartment had been professionally cleaned, which seems odd, right? What on earth is going on here? Tons and tons of potential evidence was literally scrubbed away.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And then after going back and forth with law enforcement after quite some time, Dr. Osborne ended up switching the cause of death, changing it from homicide to suicide. It was beyond fishy and shady. Now, Ellen's parents absolutely did not accept this suicide claim.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
They wanted to find out the truth about their daughter, and not only find out for themselves, but also let the world know that Ellen did not do this to herself. So over the years, they have found many people who agree with them. This is homicide. This is not her taking her own life. There was also so much evidence of Ellen being killed by somebody else.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Experts said that the crime scene was super suspicious. It looked like Ellen's body had been moved. There was hemorrhaging in her neck, indicating that she had been strangled. Not to mention the 20 stab wounds and bruises.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And I remember one expert even said one of the stab wounds was, I can't, I'm going to paraphrase here, but it was either to a part of the spine or the stem of the brain that would have made her unable to continue the attack on herself. So make that make sense. I also actually, now that I think about it, think there was a couple, was it three? I'd have to go back and look.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
A couple stab wounds that indicated they were post-mortem. Something's not right. Something's not right. I mean, how would anybody even possibly do this to themselves? Take a knife, stab yourself in the front multiple times, and then stab yourself in the back of the head and the neck multiple times? No. So as you can imagine, the media turned to Sam as the number one suspect. He was the fiancé.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
I think I'm going to do that. Stay tuned. Another case that we're talking about today that I have talked with you about ad nauseum on this channel because it is literally ripped from the headlines, Casey Anthony 2.0 is Megan Boswell. Now, I think we first started talking about Megan back in 2020, maybe 2021, but I really think it was 2020. She is the...
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Also because as people were doing some digging, it looked like things weren't as happy and great for the couple that was about to get married. Literally, they were about to get married.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So just last November, he released a statement saying, "...the pathetic and despicable attempts to desecrate my reputation and her privacy by creating a narrative that embraces lies, distortions, and falsehoods in order to avoid the truth." Mental illness is very real and it has many victims, which this just pisses me the heck off because yes, mental health does not discriminate.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
But he so quickly was trying to paint this as a mental health struggle, despite all of the shadiness going around about it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I'm not trying to say it's always the husband or it's always the boyfriend. It's not. But like, I don't know. I'm hard pressed to think that this was Ellen herself.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
However, Sam was never once investigated as a suspect, so this guy maintains that he is totally innocent. But Ellen's parents never stopped fighting for her. After years and years of investigations, lawsuits, and even an online petition, Dr. Osborne, who performed her autopsy, has now said he changed his mind.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Last Friday, there was a major break in the case because Dr. Osborne signed a document that said after reviewing new information, he no longer believes that Ellen killed herself. Which, thanks, Doc, it's a little 14 years too late, but I'm glad it happened finally.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Now, aside from that, which is also some good news, is Ellen's parents had filed two lawsuits against the city of Philadelphia for covering up Ellen's murder and for making it look like this was self-harm. And a judge ruled that they could finally go to trial.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So this new ruling also said that the medical examiners and the homicide detectives, they need to testify in the trial, since the lawsuit is accusing them of putting this whole cover-up together. Ellen's father said, I'm hoping we're going to prove that Ellen did not commit suicide. That's what this is all about. Justice for Ellen.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So get this, on Monday, just before the jury was going to be seated, both sides decided to settle instead of going through with a full trial. The settlement states that the current medical examiner must reopen Ellen's case and review all of the evidence. And then from there, they have to come to their own conclusion about Ellen's death.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
The settlement also will include a certain amount of money for the Greenbergs, however that amount wasn't released. Which, can I just say, this is massive for the Greenbergs. They have been fighting for their daughter for 14 years. I mean, 14 years of never backing down and continuing to speak out for their daughter. It is incredible. And this is what Ellen's mother had to say about everything.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
I will definitely be keeping an eye on this as they reopen this case and evaluate everything. I mean, the current medical examiner will come to a new decision. I hope that decision is the right one. I think the majority of the public can agree what that manner of death should be. But let's just hope that justice is finally served. And I'm so beyond excited for Ellen's parents.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
fucking sorry, excuse my French, worst human being on the planet, in my opinion. Actually, sorry, I'm going to rant a lot today. I take that back. I just watched the new OJ Netflix series, and I wasn't going to because I feel like I know everything there is to know about the OJ case, but I watched it. I highly, highly recommend it to anybody who even thinks they know the OJ case.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And this is just such a great example that despite the roadblocks, despite the discouragement, if you believe something in your heart is not right and you are fighting for justice for a loved one, it may take 14 years, but hopefully that justice will come. It's just one of the very few happy endings to a case that we hear about.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And I know it's not a full happy ending yet because it's still unclear what the ruling will be. But I'm hopeful that it's going in the right direction. And I got to say, I think Sam Goldberg is probably shitting his pants right now. I don't know. Maybe he had no involvement. I don't know. I'm rolling my eyes. I think he did. That's just my opinion. Do your own research.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
But I think he's probably shitting his pants. All right, thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Headline Highlights with me. We've got these every week, so if you want to make sure that you're always in the know of what's going on in true crime, make sure you're following the podcast. It's totally free.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
You can either subscribe here on YouTube, or if you're listening on your podcast app, just go into the corner, follow the show, and that way you will not miss any of these episodes, and you also won't miss any of the deep dives that we do every single Monday into the single cases.
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And as a reminder, if you feel like you even need that extra content to binge, we do put out bonus episodes every single Friday. Right now there's about 75 of them in the library that you can gain access to. And you can get access either on Patreon, which is patreon.com slash Annie Elise, or you can do it directly through the Apple Podcast app.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And this Friday, we are actually talking all about Suzanne Simpson. It is a shady, shady case coming out of Texas. It's all been going down recently this past October. There's new information, new evidence, and it's not looking very good. It's kind of giving Barrymore a few vibes in a weird way. I'm just going to say that much.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And it also involves a five-year-old who had to witness things that no child and no human should ever have to witness. So we are breaking all of that down this Friday. If you need it and you want to binge it, you can find it all where I just said. All right, guys. Thanks again for tuning in. And until the next one, be safe. Don't kill anybody. Don't join any cults.
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If you're going to get a divorce or cheat or something, just get a divorce. Don't cheat. Don't kill. And just be a good human. Just be a good human. All right, guys. That's all I've got. I will talk to you Monday. Bye.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
There were so many details that I either...
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
forgot about that I didn't know about that were like new things that just have surfaced and I think he's the worst person on the planet I always talk about how the reason I got into true crime and my most hated person ever is Casey Anthony I think it is OJ Simpson now I truly do think and I never would have thought that I would have have switched gears like that I always knew he was like you know a murderer most likely but like when you see a
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
the evidence that was not presented in the trial, when you see how he acted in some of his depositions, it's just, it's giving disgusting.
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So, sorry, that's not at all what I meant to talk about right now, but Megan Boswell is a close second because she's a woman who was charged, not even a woman, not a girl, but like a young woman, who was charged with killing her 15-month-old daughter, Evelyn, and her trial is now starting, and the details of this case,
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
massive trigger warning guys it is grotesque and then we're gonna wrap up with some very very happy news that literally just it makes me so happy that I could I honestly am like moved to tears because we've also talked a lot about the Ellen Greenberg case and if you guys have not been familiar with that case you need to get caught up I will link the full episode in this but there has been a major breakthrough and
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
As a reminder, or for those of you who don't know, Ellen was stabbed over 20 times to like the front of her body and the back of her head. Yet, despite all of that, it was ruled as a suicide. And it made absolutely no sense. Nobody thought that it made sense. It was initially ruled a homicide, but then it was changed to a suicide.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And if you're watching the video version of this, you probably can see that my desk right now is complete chaos. I have my laptop, my iPad, I have written notes, paper notes, printouts, because that is how much stuff we are going over today.
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There were also, don't get me started, tons of red flags about the entire situation. She had the lunch that she had fully prepared right there on the counter in the kitchen. We actually spoke with her parents on the most recent episode that we did, which, again, I will link.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And there were so many things that just did not add up to where not only just the evidence and somebody stabbing themselves 20 times and in the back of the head, but also... the door being broken down, her fiance, who, in my opinion, acted a little strangely and had some very interesting connections with people in powerful positions.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So we're going to talk about that because there has been a major new update in that case, literally after 14 years of her parents fighting. It's just unbelievable. But let's start with some parents who are dirtbag humans, okay? And this is the story about the parents who literally starved their ballerina daughter so that they could keep her a little girl forever.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So this story is truly just an insane one and really upsetting to hear, but a mother and a father from Australia were recently found guilty of starving their daughter to keep her looking like a child. The names of the 47-year-old parents along with their daughter have not been released because this girl was a minor when all of this happened.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
But when you hear about how all of this played out, it truly is devastating. The daughter is now 20 years old, but people really began to worry about her all the way back in 2016. Authorities began to look into the family after they had been tipped off about just how sickly this little girl looked. I mean, just to level set, when she was 16 years old, she weighed 60 pounds. 6'0".
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She weighed 60 pounds at 16 years old. My 5-year-old son weighs 47 pounds, okay? It is appalling. Now, this poor girl, she was so frail and so tiny that when she was taken away from her parents by the authorities, she had to go and be checked into a hospital and be put on a feeding tube just so that she could begin recovering.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She was put on that feeding tube for five days, and then she finally was put on a new meal plan, just really trying to bring this emaciated girl back to life almost. Now, the parents also spoke to her, dressed her, and treated her as though she was a preschooler, well into her teenage years as well.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
There's a lot of new cases, but there are also a lot of amazing updates in some existing cases that we've talked about and some really good news in one of them that I'm just so beyond excited to share with you. Now, if you're like, okay, who is this chick? What the heck is she talking about?
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Her dad also admitted to forging her birth certificate over the years, all to make people think that she was younger than she really was. Which it truly is just insane. They were literally doing everything that they could do to keep her a toddler forever. And I will say, I understand that in certain professions or... As an athlete or a dancer or an actress, you age out at a certain point.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So some people will lie about their age or they may try to look younger or dress younger or now with AI do creepy, crazy things to look younger. But this takes this to a diabolical level in my opinion.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
You are basically doing the opposite of that movie Orphan where it's like this little psychotic girl trying to play kid forever and you're trying to make your 16-year-old daughter look like a toddler. It is unbelievable. In addition to all the ways they dressed her, treated her, starved her, all of those things, they also homeschooled her and kept her as isolated as they possibly could.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Other than her ballet classes, she was basically just held hostage by her parents. Now, she, of course, thought that this was all completely normal, which is probably one of the most heartbreaking and devastating details of it all. She had no idea that this was not how parents were supposed to treat their children. She thought that this was normal behavior. She thought that her parents loved her.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And when you really break it down, it was just this very twisted obsession. So over the years, her condition, it just got worse and worse. And when people did see her, they were shocked because they would see how frail she was, how yellow her skin was. that she basically just looked like a skeleton.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Doctors warned the parents that their daughter was very unhealthy and that so much so she was even at risk of death. However, the parents, they just brushed off the comments and they ignored any and all medical advice. The parents also continuously lied to doctors, to other parents, to dance teachers. Anytime somebody would come with a concern about their daughter, they would just lie to them.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Say, no, no, no, everything's fine. You know, everything's okay. We're treating her well. Nothing to worry about. The ballet teachers eventually ended up reaching out to the police because they saw how truly bad the daughter's condition was getting.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
If you're a new listener here, you've never listened to the podcast, or you're just getting familiar with it, let me break it down for you. On my podcast, Serialistly, we do a deep dive every single Monday where I dive into one specific case, you know, I go to the depths of hell researching it, find out all the nitty gritty information you need to know, and then we talk about it.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And I mean, thank God somebody finally spoke up about this little girl, but I can't even imagine being starved and kept on this strict diet for 16 years. This girl was never allowed to have a normal childhood, and she definitely never was allowed to just simply grow up. And what's so sad is, again, that this girl thought this was just completely normal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
The daughter even attended her parents' trial, and she showed her love and support for them. She even wrote a statement that said that she didn't believe that she had been wronged in any type of way. She started sobbing when her parents were eventually found guilty by the jury, too. Which, how horrible is that?
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
It's almost as though this girl, whether you call it brainwashing, Stockholm Syndrome, both, she truly thought her parents loved her. They were treating her well. They had her best interest at heart. So much so that even after a judge and jury find them guilty and say, no, no, no, they did not treat you right. They were in the wrong. She still is hysterically crying, saying, no, they loved me.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
I don't think that I have been wronged in any way. It just goes to show the mental toll that all of this took on her as well, when you even just step aside from the physical toll and emotional toll and all of those things. So on January 31st of 2024, her father was sentenced to six and a half years in jail. The mom was sentenced to five years in jail.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
The whole trial, the parents denied everything, saying that they absolutely did love their daughter, that their daughter was, quote, to them, perfect in every way. But I just can't even wrap my head around the whole thing. Defense attorneys of the parents also said that this happened because the whole family has OCD.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
But how can that cause parents to literally starve their child and keep her completely isolated from the real world for the majority of her entire life? And now this 20-year-old woman must learn to just completely change her life and cope with the outcome and what she's now having to realize.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She has to learn to be healthy, to be by herself, to understand what she truly went through and endured during her childhood. I just cannot even imagine what she's going to go through and what that is.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
realization must be and how devastating that must be and of course you add in the layer that now she's a 20 year old woman without her support system that she's known her whole life or been isolated to I should say her whole life She's alone, trying to figure out the world, trying to figure out how to live, and her parents are the ones who put her in that position. It's inexcusable.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Now, moving into this next case about a woman who kills her boyfriend all because he doubted that she could get a job, okay? This next case is pretty intense, and let's just say it's also a very bizarre lover's quarrel, and it unfortunately ended in murder. So Ashley White, a 29-year-old Colorado woman, has just been found guilty of murdering her 28-year-old boyfriend, Cody.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
She murdered him back in 2020, and apparently she also had a complete stranger help her do it. She enlisted this stranger to help her. So why did she kill her boyfriend? Well, Ashley and Cody were apparently known to have a pretty toxic relationship. However, the root of a lot of their fights was because Ashley just could not seem to hold down a steady job.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So in the months before Cody's death, he apparently made his opinions about Ashley known. He would criticize her a lot. He would say how he thought that she would never get a steady job, that she was kind of a deadbeat. And their fights would just escalate more and more.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
But then on Thursdays, we do headline highlights, which is, hello, what we are here doing today. And in this episode, this is where we talk about everything that's happening right now this week in true crime. new cases, existing cases with updates, old cases that we need to revisit. Anything that's going on in the week, we're talking about it on Thursdays.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And at one point, Ashley got so mad at Cody that she tried to drown and burn his cat, which we all say that if there is somebody hurting animals, that is like a telltale sign of like what's to come, right? What's going to, what that behavior will eventually escalate into most likely.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
The fact that she got so pissed off at her boyfriend when they were having an argument that she grabbed his cat, tried to drown it, and then burn it, What's the movie? Is it single white female? No. What's the one with the bunny in the pot? I don't even know. But psychotic. Truly psychotic. Now Ashley also kept a diary.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
And we know that diaries sometimes will be the key to unfolding and unraveling everything there is to know about somebody's inner thoughts. And in this diary, she documented how angry Cody made her. The journal entries went on and on about her resentment towards Cody, and she even wrote she wished she had never met him.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So fast forward, after all these fightings, all this toxic stuff going back and forth, and in August of 2020, Ashley had a job interview. And she was sure this was going to be the job. This was going to be the one that she was going to get. So after the interview, she took the bus home and she texted Cody. She said, here's how the interview went. I'm really excited about it.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
I think this is going to be the one. But Cody responded by telling her he doubted that she would get the job. And as you can imagine, this definitely pissed Ashley off. So while on this bus ride home, Ashley ended up meeting a man who introduced himself to her as Scott.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
The two of them struck up a conversation, but it wasn't just any ordinary, you know, casual bus conversation of, oh, where are you going? Oh, you had a job interview? How'd it go? It was way more sinister than that. because Ashley started confiding in her newfound friend Scott all about Cody's abusive behavior.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Scott then took it a step further, and he actually asked Ashley, which is so bizarre to me because she was a stranger, but maybe he was, you know, trying to be a good guy. I don't know. But he asked her if her boyfriend had ever raped her. and Ashley alleged that Cody had, in fact, sexually assaulted her.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
So after hearing this, Scott felt like he needed to be, you know, the knight in shining armor or whatever, and he and Ashley hatched a plan to murder Cody.
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239: Casey Anthony 2.0, Parents Force Teen To Be Little Forever, Ellen Greenberg FINALLY Overturned, Cult Moms Lawsuit, & BF Murdered Over Dissing GF
Which is so crazy to me because never in my life have I jumped on a bus or a subway car or any, or in an Uber for that matter, and thought, you know, out of all these conversations that I'm going to strike up because I'm a personal person, it's going to end up in hatching a murder plot. Like, How crazy is that, right? How does it even come up?
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
They tried to do everything that they could. He was taken to a hospital, but he unfortunately was declared dead. He did not make it. Then after he died, Heather was tested for drug use, and she tested positive twice for meth. The little boy also tested positive for meth. And this is just so reckless and senseless, obviously, on this, like, I'm just going to call her a deadbeat mother's behalf.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Like, why are you using drugs in the first place? But even if you are struggling with drug use, why are you leaving things in open containers where your child, your five-year-old child could get into it? In my opinion, he never even stood a chance. I mean, literally, he just went to the refrigerator trying to get a drink. He knew that it tasted weird.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
He spit it out, yet he still ended up ODing on meth. It is just so despicable and incredibly sad. Then once the police went and investigated this actual hotel room where they were living, it didn't stop, because there they found six meth pipes, among many other drugs.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And I don't even know where to begin. I mean, they started the week off with jury selection. A friend of mine was in the courtroom, and there weren't cameras in the courtroom for that piece of it, but she was in the courtroom, and she was texting me, telling me how Lori was challenging all of these things, challenging on the basis of bias, and, like, just...
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And despite all of this, Heather heavily denied using any kind of drugs except mushrooms, as if, you know, that somehow is any better. So as of right now, Heather is being held in Palm Beach County Jail, and her bond was set at $100,000. She might have the possibility of being released on bond as long as she doesn't have any contact with any of the witnesses in this case.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But given their circumstances, I'm not trying to judge. I'm just being honest. I don't know if she'll be able to make bail. We'll see. She also apparently has a daughter. So as if this wasn't horrifying enough, right? So she was a mother of two and she is supposed to be due back in court on April 22nd. So we will see what happens here.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now let's talk about another mother of the year or mother of hell, I guess you could call it. And we're going to revisit that case that we talked about briefly with the mother who held her stepson captive for 20 years, allegedly. And I don't know if you guys remember this, but a couple of episodes ago, we did cover this story.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And he was held hostage in the bedroom for 20 years by his stepmother, allegedly. And now there have been some new updates. But as a quick little recap, the stepmother's name is Kim Sullivan, and she was originally arrested on March 12th after there was about a month-long investigation into alleged abuse of her stepson.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
She allegedly had held him hostage in the second floor bedroom for over 20 years, and the abuse allegedly started from when he was just 11 years old until now when he was rescued at 32 years old. He also, just to level set how bad this abuse was, 32 years old, I believe he's 5'9 in height, and he only weighed 60-something pounds. 68 pounds, I believe, to be exact.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
She only gave him a couple glasses of water a day, two sandwiches a day. He even had to urinate, not using the toilet, but, like, through straws that he linked together and then put out of the window to then, you know, leak into the yard. Just so cruel and so...
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
unhinged so this had gone on for years and years and years she had yanked him out of school in the fourth grade and then started homeschooling him and that's when all this began and it was pure hell he hated it so much so that he finally decided to set fire to his own bedroom as a means to be rescued and escape even telling the police later that he would have rather died than continue with what was going on inside that house so he ended up using a piece of paper some hand sanitizer and
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
lighter to spark this fire and I guess that makes sense because anything with alcohol in it usually tends to spark the fire so I would imagine that the hand sanitizer was the what do you call it not the deterrent what it what would you call it um I can't figure it out but you know what I'm talking about like what would help spark this fire so or spread it.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I don't really know but he wanted to just be free so this is what he did. The fire spread all throughout the house and then it ultimately forced his stepmom Kim to call 9-1-1 and here is that 9-1-1 call for you guys just so that you can hear it one last time. It's very short.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I don't even know what we're going to expect from this trial. I just hope that Charles and his family gets justice at the end of it because this woman is putting everybody through the wringer. Like, it's time to just lay down. It's time to lay down, Lori. So I'm going to break out down everything going on there. There's also some new cases that are honestly just disgusting and horrifying.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
When the authorities arrived, Kim was just standing right out front of the house, holding her dog in her arms, not her stepson, and just standing there, being more concerned about herself and the dog. The police, of course, went inside, and that's when they rescued her son. Now, Kim, who is 57 years old, faces multiple charges, including kidnapping, assault, and you name it.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So far, she has pleaded not guilty to all of the charges, and she also posted bail of $300,000. So now she's apparently just walking free until her court date. She has been ordered to wear an ankle monitor, but she's not under house arrest and nothing like that. They're just monitoring her movements.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now, in a question and sentiment that I fully, completely agree with and understand, the assistant state attorney said that he met with the son. He met with the victim. And the man's first question to him was, quote, why is she out walking around when I was locked up in a room for 20 years? Which, fair question, fair question.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Why she was even allowed bail and given bail, like, I don't understand. Because maybe she's not a danger to society. Maybe you can argue that. Maybe you can argue that she's not a flight risk since she has the ankle monitor. But also, with how much evidence I believe they have gathered against her, I think it's pretty clear that the charges will stick. That she will be convicted of this.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Even though she's saying that it was all the biological father's doing. That she just went along with it. Which, spoiler alert, the biological father died a year ago. So why didn't you set your son free after that then? But I think anytime you grant somebody bail like this, I don't know. It just rubs me the wrong way. And look, I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a judge. I don't make the rules.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But if there's ever... any indication that somebody has abused a child or that they have inflicted some element of torture or cruel and unusual punishment, I think bail should be off the table. I think you err on the side of caution and protect those victims. And I don't know. That's just my opinion.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And maybe you guys are going to disagree and come for me in the comments and be like, Annie, like, you're a psychopath. What are you even talking about? But that's just my opinion. Like, she allegedly abused this kid, who's now an adult, for 20 years, holding him captive in a bedroom. That's worse than solitary confinement, in my opinion, you know? Like, well, I don't know, actually.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Let me think about that. Because solitary, it's like, you literally, I don't know. It's probably, it's the same thing. It's literally, like, the exact same thing, almost. So... I don't know. I just, it really makes me mad. And where is the justice in that? I mean, I know she will go to court one day. There probably will be justice. I would imagine she will be convicted.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But where's the justice for this kid now? Even though he's an adult, I call him a kid because he's been held allegedly since he was a kid. Like, she's allowed to walk free and he was locked in that room for 20 years. How does that at all work? How does that math add up? I don't know. But like I said, Kim, along with her lawyers, are completely denying all these allegations.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And she's saying that it's shocking. It never happened. I never did this. It was all my former husband, his biological father. But no. Okay. Like, get real. Now, of course, one of the big questions in all of this is people are wondering how this could have gone on for as long as it did without anybody noticing.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Family members have said that they did used to worry about him, but his father and his stepmom just really isolated themselves from the rest of the family. They stopped going to family events, birthday parties, holidays, so they didn't really think twice about it. Which I can only imagine for him, he probably felt so forgotten, so alone, right?
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
One has to do with a child who got into his mom's apple juice or apple juice that she left exposed and there was a meth inside of it. Another one has to do with a father who woke up in the middle of the night and the mother was stabbing their four children. I mean, truly evil people. Which, speaking of evil, okay? Remember the stepmom who held her stepson captive for 20 years, allegedly?
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Going years without seeing any of your extended family and nobody coming in to check on you or worry about you or wondering if they've even tried to check on you or worry about you. I would imagine that you would just feel left. and just defeated, deflated.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
However, on March 26th, which was when Kim had her first court hearing, the victim's biological family was seated in the courthouse and they have started speaking out on this situation. Heather Tessman is apparently this man's half-sister.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And she said that she had been searching for her brother for 14 years, that it wasn't until the news came out about him escaping this house of horrors that she finally learned the truth about her brother, what was going on. And now his biological mother also has spoken out, and she has been so incredibly shocked to learn what happened to her son.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Tracy said that she gave up custody of her son when he was just an infant, and that that's when he began living with his father and his stepmother. Tracy said, though, that she never stopped looking for him, that she always wanted to be a part of his life. But she was never able to find him.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Tracy and Heather had no idea just how bad his living situation had become, and to their knowledge, he was just living with his parents. But here's a snippet from an interview with the two of them, and I want you to take a listen.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So as of right now, we are waiting for the stepmother, Kim, to get back in the courtroom and see what happens with these charges. But like I said, she's not currently behind bars. Now the community is, of course, definitely coming together and rallying for this man.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
They are all on his side, and I am hoping that he is able to get justice, that he will have a healthy road to recovery, that he can start to heal from all of this, and it will definitely be a case that we are keeping a close eye on.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
All right, so just when I thought we've had enough of Lori Vallow after that bizarre Dateline interview with Keith Morrison, she's back, which I guess we kind of knew she was going to be back because we knew she was going to be facing these charges in Arizona. But she is back, the infamous doomsday mom, Lori Vallow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I'm saying allegedly because obviously she hasn't been convicted of it. And she, like...
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But just to give you a little background, if you don't know who Lori is, she's a woman who...
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
is a psychopath okay in my opinion she was married five times which fine who cares whatever she has three kids she was a former beauty pageant contestant and then she became this like radicalized lds member thinking that the second coming was coming that she was reading all these books thinking that she was one of the 144 000 who were going to help bring us into the new
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
world what however you would describe it I apologize it's not my exact forte in terms of knowing what all the spiritual terminology and she got like swept up and wrapped up with this loser creep Chad Daybell which honestly google him and you'll understand why I'm describing him that way just look at his stupid sorry face
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
was neurotic and looked crazy and like 20 years of just pure hell well she's been let out on bail she made bail and he's kind of asking now like why is she even allowed out on bail like could it isn't that a flight risk could she possibly be a danger to herself or other people new photos have also been released from the inside of that house which
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But he was also very much of this he wrote books he always talked about how he was the like not a prophet but kind of like that where he had all these conversations with God he told Lori how they had met in previous lives how they were now set out on this mission to bring or be the 144,000 that ushered people into this whole new world. all of these things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And coincidentally, of course, everybody else was the enemy who wasn't Chad or Lori. Their kids were the enemies. Her husband Charles was the enemy. His wife Tammy was the enemy. Everybody else, but they were, you know, the exalted beings. And it's just awful because in all of this, they ended up deeming her two children as what they called zombies. And
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I don't know if I'm getting a little mixed up on the terminology. Did they also call them, I know they called, oh, demons. Demons and zombies. I was going to say suppressed being, but I think that's more Scientology. But very cult-like behavior nonetheless. So Lori was convicted of murdering her two children because that's apparently what you do, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
You think your kid's a zombie and you murder them like a true psycho-sociopath. She was also convicted of conspiring to murder Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife, because Tammy died. Coincidentally, the two of them, Lori and Chad, got married two weeks later. But, uh, spoiler alert, they bought wedding rings on Amazon even before Tammy died.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
It, like, these morons, I mean, I'm glad they left a digital trail, and it took a long time to get justice, but it finally came. She was sentenced to life in prison. Chad was sentenced to the death penalty. Thank God. But now she's back in the courtroom because she also is being charged with conspiring to kill her fourth husband, the husband before Chad, Charles Vallow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now I know that that was a lot. I just threw a lot at you. So let me rewind a little bit to understand exactly how we got here. So by the time that Lori married husband number four, Charles, back in 2006, she had kids from her past marriages. One of them was Tylee Ryan, and then one of them was JJ, who actually was adopted through their family.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And I'm not going to get into all the inner workings, so I think you guys already know everything. So in 2013, after she had been married to Charles for, gosh, what is that, four or five, six, seven years? That's when she met Chad Daybell. And like I said, he was also Mormon. He had these radical beliefs. They focused on reincarnation, the apocalypse, the end of the world, all of these things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And they just immediately fell for each other. clicked and were in love. But then, of course, things started spiraling. Laurie got very, very into all of this doomsday stuff. And in that, her marriage to Charles was starting to fall apart. He was the evil one. She called him by saying that his body had been taken over by a new spirit, Ned, was it Ned Stark or Ned something? Ned Stark.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
No, that's Game of Thrones. But
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
but like had renamed him saying it's not even Charles in your body anymore it's now this new evil spirit and so her Chad and her brother Alex Cox who I believe was more like her henchman in a weird way he like idolized Lori and it was honestly kind of gives Game of Thrones vibes if I'm gonna be real if you know you know but they basically conspired saying Charles needs to you know be killed.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I'll just be honest, they look really, really bad, but you also do have to take into consideration that the house was set fire, so a lot of it I think is fire damage as well, but that doesn't excuse some of the other contents of what's going on in this house. So we just have a lot to talk about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
He can't. We need his life insurance policy. We need he's evil. All of these things. Charles was very scared. He was seen calling the police on body cam footage where he said, like, I'm worried that my wife is going to try and kill me. Here's all the concerning things that she has said to me. All of this is documented. All of it is on record.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And this is a clip I want to play for you where he's speaking about her while they were still married before the divorce was even filed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So then fast forward, and one day in July, Charles went over to pick up his son JJ from Lori's rental home because they were estranged at this point, they had been living apart, she had been in Hawaii for weeks, all of these things, and her brother Alex was at this house. Then a fight broke out between Charles and Alex, allegedly, but it ended in Alex shooting and killing Charles.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Happy Thursday. That feels like a Monday, I swear. I feel like this week has been dragging.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now, Alex claimed that he shot Charles in self-defense and also that he didn't feel bad for shooting him because, remember, Charles was, quote, a zombie, possessed, he was attacking, he was abusive, all of these things. But he claimed self-defense. Now, one of the most telling parts about all this, and again, if you want the full deep dive, guys, go way back.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I'm just trying to give cliff note version. But one of the weirdest things about this is on the day that Charles was killed, Lori is being notified, and she is seen on interrogation and body cam footage, and she's very casual, talking about how she was going to have a pool party, talking about how, oh, I hope the neighbors don't think we're causing a fuss.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Like, nothing that you would expect from a now widow or a grieving wife, former wife, spouse. And just take a listen to this little snippet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I'm going to keep this intro short and sweet, though, because I know sometimes I can ramble, and some of you like it, some of you don't. Actually, sorry, ADHD going off right now. I do have one more announcement.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So now that Charles was out of the picture, that's when she moved to Idaho with Chad, with her two children, and then we know what hellish activities came from that, right? So now we know that she has already been convicted of the murder of her two children and for every, all the horrible things that they did there. Chad as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But now she's also being charged with the death of her husband, Charles, because yes, he was shot by Lori's brother, Alex. But she's being charged with conspiracy to commit that murder. She's also being charged with attempted murder of a man named Brandon Boudreau, who was the ex-husband of Lori's niece. And her niece is also involved in this whole weird cult situation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So the conspiracy to commit murder charges and the attempted murder charges are being tried separately. And Lori, who has denied all of these past charges, is also pleading not guilty to these ones. But the craziest part about all of this is she's representing herself in court. And she, I don't want to say she's done a good job because it hasn't really even kicked off in a big way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But she's definitely a lot smarter than I think I was giving her credit for. Even just kind of her legal jargon and what she's saying. I don't think she's going to convince anyone on the jury. I truly don't. Thank you. Thank you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I am going back on tour I believe it's going to be starting off in July and I'm really excited about this because we are making this a much larger scale tour so we are hitting I think what 23 cities in total and we're still finalizing a lot of them but here let me actually just read off to you some of the cities that are in the mix right now of discussion and you can let me know like
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Like, yeah, yeah, go to that city. Or like, no, Annie, you don't have anybody who listens to you in Charlotte, North Carolina. So we got Boston, New York, Philly, Washington, D.C., Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh, Atlanta, Orlando, Tampa, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Francisco, L.A., Portland, Seattle, San Diego, Phoenix, the U.K., my U.K. peeps.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Thank you. Thank you. a a a a a a a a a a a a a a and Thank you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
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Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. She also didn't clock into work until like 3 p.m. that day. She only stayed for, I think it was under an hour. And she just called, when she got to work, she called her spiritual guru. Then she left. I mean, a lot of weird stuff, which...
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I don't see Canada on here, but we did talk about doing Canada too. So it's not finalized. Dates aren't 100%, but I just wanted to let you know I've seen a lot of comments saying, are you going back out on tour? When's that going to happen? And we are planning it for, I believe, probably June or July. So stay tuned for that.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But let me know in the comments what city and maybe I'll even, maybe I can put, I don't know how I can put a poll up with that many options, but I am curious to see like where the bulk of you guys are. I feel like I know from my analytics, but I always want to know where you guys are at. Where are you guys listening in from? Where are you sneaking in and listening from?
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I actually will link in the show notes of this episode the full deep dive I did on Nicole. And maybe we should do another one soon. Let me know in the comments if you want another one. But I will link that old one. But anyways, apparently she was spotted over the weekend in Montana. Now, it's a very quick video. It's really hard to catch, but she's at a funeral of a family friend, allegedly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So she's walking down the, what would you call, I guess the procession, almost looking like she's exiting. And I don't know if it was a fixed camera that was maybe live streaming the service or if somebody viewing the funeral and the service recorded her for some reason. But you see her walking out and...
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
It hasn't been confirmed that it's her, but of course the sleuths online, they are going wild. And when you pull a side-by-side, at first I didn't know because the person in this video is a little bit heavier than Nicole was, but then again, it also has been what?
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
seven years so she's a little bit heavier she has the same kind of hair but when I like of course did my detective work which you know his internet detective at best but I did screenshots of many pictures of her in the past with screenshots of this side by side to where I was literally doing like the mirror imaging where you layer pictures on top of each other because I wanted to step so psychotic I know but I wanted to see if the attributes were the same and
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And her hairline looks the same. The exact location in which her hair is parted, which isn't on the side, isn't on the middle, but it's somewhere in between. She also kind of has like this little tiny cowlick looking thing. The eyebrow arch. I believe this was Nicole. Now, what's interesting, and I've heard this theory, but I've never put much weight into it.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And I want to be clear, I'm not putting a lot of weight into it now either. But what I did see is a lot of people commenting on these viral videos of her now
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
of this particular video but that has been shared you know everywhere and saying that they believe that she is the mother to chris's child now again that is super sensationalistic or whatever word i'm looking for you know i'm talking about salacious but people say she was pregnant then that's why she went into a lot of people say witness protection just flew off the radar we never heard from her because she was pregnant with his child
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Okay, now I'm really going to shut up for reals. Now, let's start with the father in Sydney, Australia, who woke up in the middle of the night to find his wife stabbing their children. And this just kind of takes night terrors to an entirely new level.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I don't know if that's true. That would mean that she would have now, what, a six-year-old, I would imagine. Six or seven. I don't know if that's true, but it got people talking about it again. And I want to be clear, too. People weren't just making that assertion because of the weight gain. Because obviously, yes, you gain weight when you are pregnant, but she obviously isn't pregnant anymore.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I think that's just... Unfortunately, hey, I'm a woman too. It comes with age. It just happens sometimes. But they were commenting about how they do believe that she fathered Chris's child. Again, I don't know if that's true. Maybe it is. But we know that we have not seen any sight of her. Not a sighting, not a picture, not a video in seven years.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So as you know and can imagine, the internet went wild. Now, for those of you listening to the audio version of this, I will link the video on my Instagram so you can watch it for yourself. My Instagram handle is at underscore Annie Elise. But I don't know. We'll see. Again, let me know if you want a new fresh deep dive into Nicole.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Not necessarily everything that that monster Chris Watts did, but Nicole herself, because there's a lot of weird stuff when you really dig into that woman. But I will link the other existing deep dive for you, too. All right, guys, that's it for this week's headline highlights.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Sorry, I know I was kind of all over the place a little bit there for a minute, but hopefully, you know, I was able to convey the gist of it. I will be back with you on Monday with an all new deep dive into a case. It is a doozy. It's one that I thought I knew all the details about. And then when I really got into it, I realized I didn't. So we have that on Monday.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
We, of course, have our deep dives throughout the week over on our YouTube channel, 10 to Life. And if you ever feel like you need more content and you're running out of things to listen to, we have a whole library right now on Apple Podcasts and on Patreon where you can listen to about 80 extra deep dive episodes that are exclusively there for Apple subscribers or for Patreon members.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But he woke up and he found his 47-year-old wife stabbing their three children as they were asleep, which I don't even know how you respond in a moment like that. I would imagine you just go irate. You freeze. I honestly don't even know. Now this father, he was thinking very quickly on his feet because he jumped into action.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And we've talked about some breaking cases that are going on in the news right now. Like last week, I talked all about the doctor in Hawaii who tried to push his wife off the cliff. He's the anesthesiologist. And not only did he try to take a selfie with her and then push her off the cliff, but then he took a rock and hit her allegedly 10 times in the head with it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
He also tried to inject her with two different syringes. Then he fled on foot. She luckily survived. But I break down that whole case because apparently back in December, he started accusing her of having an affair. Then he started monitoring her text messages, her phone calls, like all sorts of stuff. So that I released last Friday.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
We also have a bunch of other cases with like scam artists, best friends who plotted murders of their best friends, some of the other breaking cases that are out there. So you can go take a listen and you can see all of those titles and what's available on Patreon again or even on the Apple podcast app. All right. Other than that, I am going to sign off.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I am about to go record another deep dive episode for you that I will be airing very soon. And until the next one, guys, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join a cult and like stay away from connections with Jodi Hildebrand for real. All right, guys, take care. I will talk with you soon. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
At first, the detectives say that what woke him up was that he heard his children screaming, which imagine that horror in and of itself, right? But then when he went to investigate, that's when he saw his wife stabbing them. So like I said, he jumped into action, he grabbed the knife away from her, and then he called 911.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now as I said, all three kids were asleep in their bedrooms during this attack, and they are 10 years old, 13 years old, and 16 years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
They all unfortunately suffered stab wounds, and the 10-year-old boy had two stab wounds, while the 13-year-old girl had three stab wounds, and the 16-year-old girl had one stab wound, along with topside, not superficial cuts, but nothing that was like too deeply penetrated. But as if this wasn't so disturbing and heartbreaking already, get this. The 16-year-old girl is a paraplegic.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I don't know if it's just me, I don't know, I've had a busy week and so you would think that with a busy week it would feel like the week is over sooner, but for me I just kind of feel like it's still the beginning of the week, if that makes sense. But Anyway, I'm not here to complain. I'm here to talk with you guys.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Can you even wrap your mind around that? First of all, what kind of mother, father, whomever would do something like that to somebody who literally cannot even defend themselves in any sort of way? But your own child who's sitting there defenseless, who then imagine that fear in her mind when she sees her mother coming at her.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And I know she was asleep, but then obviously she woke up at some point and the father even heard the screaming. But it's like she wakes up and she can't defend herself. And she just is, you know, laying there as a victim waiting, having her mother inflict this on her. It's horrible every way you look at it.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now, thankfully, paramedics were treating all of these kids at the scene, and then they were immediately taken to the hospital where doctors were able to successfully get them into stable condition. Now, when the authorities got to the home at around 5.15 a.m., they realized that the mother had also turned the knife on herself and stabbed herself multiple times.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So the whole thing looked like it was some sort of attempted murder-suicide type of situation, which is really interesting because any time we have seen paramedics
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
cases in which familicide especially when it's the mother's doing and family annihilation very rarely is a weapon like a knife used and I say that because and I don't remember I'd have to look it up I don't remember the exact statistics but I do know that women whether they are going to take their own lives or they plan to take their children's lives and then their own they statistically do not do it in an overly violent way and
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
usually they will either use means of suffocation the bath you know drowning sometimes a gunshot or pills poisoning things like that where it's almost like I think this is not the right expression but it's the only way I know how to describe it but more of like the silent killer right where it's not as gory it's not as violent so now hearing that this is being investigated as a
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
and that she was using a knife on not only her children but herself, that definitely takes this to a different level, in my opinion, of what kind of situation this is and what was really going on in her mind. I don't know. Obviously, I don't know her reasons. I don't know the motive. We are going to talk about some of it in a moment here.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But it's just the reason I say all of this is because it's something that we don't often see. It's usually one of those other more silent, even hands-on, yes, especially with suffocation and drowning, but not as gruesome. So anyways, she attempted to take her own life, but they intervened in time and then she was taken to the hospital to be treated and she's now in stable condition.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So hopefully you're having a better week than I am and getting ready for the weekend. Today, let's see. Today in Headline Highlights, we have got so much to go over. We've got updates in the Ruby Frankie case because Jodi is actually challenging her conviction now. There's talk that she wants to change her plea entirely, which, like, eh.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
As of right now, she has been charged with three counts of grievous bodily harm to a person with the intent to murder. Now, like I said, we are still unclear of the exact motive, but what a lot of people are, of course, wondering is how the heck did this even happen?
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
It was a complete shock to the entire community, and the police also had said that this was the very first time that they've ever responded to this address. They've never gone to this home for any sort of
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
The neighbors also described them as, quote, The detective on this case has also spoken out and said they wish they knew that this family was going through something so that possibly they could have intervened before all of this came to a head and before all of this happened. The neighbors also have said that, yes, the family usually did keep to themselves. They were pretty quiet.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But they also said how they would come over for Christmas and celebrate the holiday. They would bring cookies, chocolates for the kids, and be warm and welcoming. Just nice neighborly stuff. So it seems as though, as of right now, from what we know, it seems like this happened out of nowhere, just baffling and very, very sad.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now, the only detail that the police have released about this attack is that before the stabbing, the mother was allegedly acting erratically. And that is their direct word, erratically. I'm not throwing that out there. So we don't know if that was maybe some sort of mental or psychotic break, if there was something else that she was maybe suffering from with underlying issues. I don't know.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
They didn't really elaborate on what that means. The police also ended up finding the weapon inside the house, which was a bloody kitchen knife. The woman has been refused bail, but she is set to appear in court this week. So the police are taking this case as a potential attempted murder, and we will see where it goes and what we learn.
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257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
And I guess it also kind of just goes to show you really never know what's going on inside somebody else's house, even your neighbors, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
They can be warm, loving, inviting, happy, and you never really know what somebody is struggling with, what is going on inside that house, what might be happening behind those walls that is, you know, like this woman who helped her stepson captive allegedly for 20 years. It's like, and I don't know if that's where I get the intrusive thoughts.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I think I talked about this last week or maybe the week before, but... I don't know if it's normal or not, but it is something that I think about all the time. No matter where I am, if I'm driving down the road or on vacation or even on a flight, something that always enters my mind is how many people in these houses that I'm passing right now are being held against their will?
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
How many people on this plane have killed somebody? How many people on this plane are here with somebody who is sexually abusing them? And I don't think that's healthy at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
like don't get me wrong for even a split second guys I know it's not healthy I'm unfortunately think it's probably more common than I realize which I really hope not because I hope people aren't having those thoughts like me all the time but I did see somebody tell me recently when I mentioned this they're like Annie that's a form of OCD you get intrusive thoughts like you can definitely get on I think they had said you can get on medication or like seek help to correct that which I don't know if it's necessarily to the level where it's like
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
It's, you know, affecting my day to day, but it's, I only bring it up because I mean, it's like, it's something that always is in the back of my mind. And it kind of goes back to this case too. Again, you never know what's going on behind closed doors in somebody's house. And It's a really scary thing to think about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Now let's talk about this other case with this five-year-old boy who drank this apple juice that was apparently laced with meth. Because this is like a worst fear come true. Not that I think my son is ever going to get into like laced meth apple juice. I'm not, you know, smoking meth or have things laying around.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
get a grip lady are you for real right now like be so for real so we gotta talk about that Lori Vallow is back in the news Lori Lori Lori and let me just tell you this woman is honestly like the true definition of batshit crazy in my opinion She's representing herself now in the trial that she's on trial in Arizona for the murder of her ex-husband Charles, or former husband Charles, I should say.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But like it is like a new fear unlocked because it just shows that, I don't know, I don't know, whatever. I'm going to shut up and stop talking. So this case happened in Florida. And like I said, it was a five-year-old little boy and he unfortunately died after this happened. He drank this apple juice that had methamphetamine in it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
The mother in all of this was arrested last week and she's now facing a manslaughter charge. But let's rewind a little bit. So the mother is 37-year-old Heather Opsinks, and she lived in Riviera Beach, which is a city in Florida. She lived actually in the Sands Hotel, which is kind of like a hotel-motel type of area, and that's where she lived with her 5-year-old son.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But apparently one day Heather just left a bottle of juice open in the fridge, and this bottle had methamphetamine in it. Which I don't know if this was intentional and I'm not very well versed in the drug world guys I'll be honest. But from what I do know and from cases I've covered I've never really heard of drug users lacing their own juice or food with drugs.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I feel like usually they're just like smoking it from the pipe or the foil or however whatever drug it is you know using it however is the most potent. So I don't know if this is like something that people do or if maybe this was intentional and she laced juice of all things with the intention of her child taking it. There was, which case was it? Gosh, what was it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
Was it Victoria Martin's in New Mexico? I think that it was. And it was a little girl and her mother was giving her meth. And so, and I don't know, again, I'm just going to be honest guys and take this for what it is. I'm not very well versed in drugs from what
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
My understanding is when you give somebody meth, they are super hyperactive and awake all hours and very high energy, which I don't know why you would want to give a child that, if I'm going to be honest. If anything, I feel like you're trying to get the kids to calm down and go to sleep at a decent hour. But now something is coming back to me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I think that when I covered that case of Victoria Martins, and I believe that's the one it was. I'm pretty confident. I'm like 98% certain.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
I feel like I remember hearing that is it that for children it has the adverse effects I don't know if that's entirely right but almost that it is more of something that calms them down which I could be wrong but my point in all of this and I apologize for the rant is do people just put meth in their juice and put it in the fridge or does it seem like this was something more deliberately done.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
So after this open juice bottle was left in the fridge, the five-year-old was left with a babysitter while Heather was allegedly outside of this hotel room washing a cooler. So the child went into the fridge looking for something to eat or drink and then drank this apple juice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
But he knew that something was wrong because he immediately spit this juice out and complained it to the babysitter saying that it tasted weird. But all of a sudden, the five-year-old then started shivering, sweating, and shaking. Then his head hung down and his body went stiff. The babysitter also noticed that he was very, very cold and that there were rashes forming all over his skin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
He then, and this is very graphic, guys, so I apologize, but he then started throwing up black stuff and having seizure-like symptoms. Then Heather, the mom who was outside washing this cooler, once she noticed what was going on and came back inside, she waited an entire hour for whatever reason before calling 911.
Serialously with Annie Elise
257: Nichol Kessinger, Lori’s Back & Jodi’s Not Guilty?
She waited a full freaking hour after witnessing her son shivering, slumped over, throwing up black stuff, looking like he's having a seizure. and did not call 911 for an entire hour. So the authorities finally got the phone call at around half past five, and in this call, she said that he was no longer breathing. After the paramedics arrived, they tried to treat him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, as of the latest, the victim has been treated for her injuries and is currently in stable condition. Like, thank God. But it's just crazy to me that this even happened because it was just a bad tip. Like, who's going to freak out and do a 14 stab massacre over a freaking tip? It's absurd.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
I guess that's a good reminder, though, for all of you who post me in DoorDash like me, like, always give the 20 or 25%, right? Like, you don't know what kind of, like, lunatics are out there. So Brianna was arrested and she was booked into jail, and she's facing charges of attempted murder, home invasion with a firearm, kidnapping, and aggravated assault. Her bail was set at $55,000.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
The pizza place that she worked for, Marco's Pizza, has released a statement, and they have said that they were completely cooperating with the authorities, that the safety and the well-being of their customer is the top priority, and that they will completely cooperate with this investigation. Now, as for the man who allegedly helped Brianna... He has apparently not yet been identified.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
He's still just out there. Now, in a statement, Melinda, the victim said, "'I am scared, and he knows exactly how my boyfriend looks. He stared at the man for so long with a gun pointed to his head. I want them to get him as soon as possible because they're monsters. They should not be out on the street.'"
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
now if you just kind of imagine that that is terrifying that's always the big scare right and the big fear when you have a home invasion or something like that or if somebody takes your id that they will know how to find you because and that they will retaliate because you can identify them now in this situation imagine the fear of finding out that you're pregnant that you have a five-year-old daughter that you have been in fact attacked and stabbed 14 times by this lunatic and her boyfriend partner whoever he is friend whatever he is
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And that now she's behind bars and he may want to retaliate for that. It's just really, really scary. So I'm hopeful that Brianna flips and like tries to cut a deal and gives up the guy at least so that they're both off the streets. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But again, a good reminder to always be overly generous with tipping.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
I'm not gonna jump and use the word trafficking because I feel like everybody always jumps to that so quickly, but there is definitely something weird here and I'm interested to know what you guys think about all of this. So an Oklahoma woman was arrested because she allegedly left her baby abandoned in this Florida hotel and casino. It was Christmas Eve, okay?
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Okay, I'm going to grab some water because I know I've been talking at super speed. We're going to hear a quick word from today's sponsor and then I will be back. Okay, so you know how I always say I'm all about life balance? Well, let me talk to you about my newest obsession that I just got my latest delivery on, and it is Hero Bread.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Because Hero Bread makes it so much easier to focus on my health goals, especially now in the new year, without giving up on the foods that I love.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Whether it's a warm grilled cheese with soup on a cold day, a everything bagel that's loaded with, you know, avocado, eggs, all of the things, or even just like a burger night with the family, whatever it is, Hero Bread delivers the softest, most fluffy texture that you ever would crave in your life when it comes to bread. and it's all guilt free.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, when I first tried Hero Bread, I was honestly shocked. I think my first time trying it was around 4th of July, but I was so shocked because I was having a hot dog and it was so soft, so fluffy, and it tasted just like my regular favorite bread.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
The other week, I actually ended up using their tortillas to make quesadillas for the kids, and my kids, who are the pickiest eaters on the planet, could not tell the difference. Plus it just fits perfectly into my busy routine because their bread is ultra low in net carbs. It has zero grams of sugar. It's packed with fiber and it's like the best of both worlds. It's delicious and it's nutritious.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
You can even see my unboxing of all of this over on my Instagram page. I put it on my stories because I love, love, love when I get my hero bread delivery and And my husband is obsessed as well. Now their product range is absolutely amazing. They have sliced bread, tortillas, bagels, dinner rolls. I mean, you name it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now I've been loving their bagels for my quick breakfast, like I mentioned, but I also can't wait to try their four gram net carb bagel. So Hero Bread is helping me crush my health goals this year, and they can help you too. Right now, they're offering 10% off your order. Just go to hero.co and use code AE at checkout. That's H-E-R-O.C-O, code AE.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So if your New Year's resolution is to eat healthier without sacrificing flavor, Hero Bread is the way to go. Trust me, you will never miss the sugar or the carbs. All right, guys, I'm back. And now I need to talk to you about this other case that is coming out of Texas because this is kind of wild.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
A Texas woman has been charged with murder after she allegedly shot her husband, lit his truck on fire, then, get this, tried to escape from the scene by paddling away on a kayak. Like, what? What are you even talking about, okay? It's beyond, it feels like a Lifetime movie.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So officials say that they were conducting a welfare check due to the fact that a father hadn't seen his son for quite some time. And when they did that welfare check, that's when they found the body of Tomas Calvera Jr. His body was inside a closet and the authorities say he had been shot in the face.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Then, on that same day, authorities had to report to the scene of a burning vehicle, not knowing that it was at all related. But witnesses told the police that they saw a woman walking away from this burning truck that was on fire.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, the woman was identified as Faith Paige Goines, and Faith was Tomas' common-law wife, which basically means that she lived with him, they were committed to each other. I think that, I don't know what the restrictions are, I'm sorry, not restrictions, requirements are in Texas, but I feel like common law something like seven or ten years, and then you're considered common law.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And a police officer was called into the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Florida, in Hollywood, Florida to be specific. And when he got there, he said that he, quote, observed an infant who was wearing a soiled diaper and just out in the open elements. Now, the exact age of the child has not yet been released. Like I said, there is very few details, but just think about it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So they were committed to each other, and they lived together. However, they weren't legally married. But when the police found Faith, they found her, get this, rowing on a kayak somewhere near that burning truck. Police ended up searching Faith, and when they did, they found that she had several severe burn marks on her body. She also had Tomas' ID on her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, at this point, the police confirmed that the truck that had been burned definitely belonged to Tomas. So clearly, it just was not looking good for Faith. She was then taken in for questioning, and she allegedly confessed to police that she had shot him and then burned his truck. Now, Faith is charged with murder and arson and also causing serious bodily injury or death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
The investigation is ongoing, so obviously there are a lot of unanswered questions, but the main one being, what on earth led Faith to commit alleged murder? It's just crazy. I mean, right now, Faith is awaiting trial, and it's unclear if she's going to enter any plea deals as of yet. We will watch it, but again, like...
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
to shoot your husband or common-law husband in the face, stuff him in a closet, burn his truck because I would imagine you're trying to burn the evidence, and then flee on kayak? Like what are you even talking about? It is just beyond. This next case also has to do with fire and it's a little bit kind of like the New York City fire.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Let me just get into it because I'm going to probably like talk in circles. So it's a little bit similar, like I said, to the NYC subway arson case that we're going to talk about in a minute, but it's in North Carolina and it is a little bit different.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So a young woman in North Carolina was just, you know, casually walking down the street when for some reason, some sick stranger just came up behind her and then all of a sudden doused her in gasoline. And then after that, they set her on fire. Which, this is insane because this guy is literally still unknown.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And for no apparent reason, he just took her by surprise, dumped gasoline on her, and then used his cigarette to start the fire. It's insane.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
The woman was only 20 years old and her name is Ashanti Downey and she was immediately rushed to the emergency room. She has second and third degree burns all down the right side of her body. After that, after being rushed to the emergency room, she was moved to a local burn center where officials said that her burns were critical and the burns covered three quarters of her body.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
However, thankfully they were able to get her in stable condition. After the fire, her mother ended up starting an online fundraiser aiming to raise up to $75,000 because apparently the money she says is going to help the family pay for treatment, for surgeries, for rehab, for all of it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, this is really sad, but Ashanti's 21st birthday was New Year's Day, which she of course had to celebrate while she was recovering from these horrific burn injuries. The police are of course absolutely shocked at what happened, and they haven't released any information about who the attacker could be, what the motivation could have been if it was just a crime of opportunity, or what.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Authorities also say they are still searching for the suspect, for tips, for a lead, for anything. And they say anyone who has any information should come forward and tell the police that if you saw something, if you heard something, no detail is too small. The Harnett County Sheriff said, quote, it could have been domestic related. It could have been a gang initiation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
This baby was left all alone, young enough to be in a diaper, obviously, and nobody was taking care of them. It's pretty unthinkable, right? They also, as we know, babies, I mean, have no way of, like, speaking, protecting themselves, taking care of themselves, so they really are at the mercy of whatever human being discovers them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
We're mystified by what's happened. Which, yeah, me too. I mean, what is wrong with people? You have to be insane to just see a woman, a random woman, walking down the street and think to yourself, hey, I'm going to set this woman on fire. Like, ugh, God. And we're going to talk about New York in just a second here. Now, in this case, thankfully, Ashanti was able to survive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
But still her life is of course changed forever. She has third degree burns all over her body. It's going to take extremely long time for her to recover. And you don't even get into the mental trauma and anguish that this will leave her with. I just can't even imagine. And that kind of takes us right into the case that is coming out of New York.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And a lot of you have been asking me to cover this and it's, it's really scary. I used to live in New York. I know I've mentioned that before, but I lived in New York for like I don't even remember, eight or nine years. I can't remember. But I would take the subway multiple times a day, 10 times a day. And I never felt unsafe.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Honestly, I never felt unsafe on the subway, even though I saw some crazy things. But now like post 2020, it's like a whole different ballgame. Even when I travel back to New York, I'm scared to go on the subway, but that's just me. But anyway, you might've heard about this case last week because it was not only barbaric, but like so heinous that it just went viral everywhere.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And it's one of the craziest things that I think I've ever seen. Like I said, it's similar to the one we just talked about, but unfortunately in this case, the victim did not survive. It's hard to even talk about or think about because it is everything that humanity should not be, but here it is. So a man fatally lit a woman on fire while she was sleeping on a New York City subway train.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
It was December 22nd, and this woman, who the police have not named yet or released all the information about her yet, was sleeping in a train car at the Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue station. As she was sleeping, Sebastian Zepeda got onto the train and then he did something truly sinister and disgusting. He took a lighter and he set this woman's clothing on fire for no reason.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Then this monster took a shirt to fan the flames all to make the fire grow. Then he just sat on a bench and he watched this woman literally burn alive, which is How sick in the head do you have to be to pull something like that, right? And one of the worst parts is that there were witnesses.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
He did this in front of people, but nobody was able to step in and help her, whether they couldn't get to her, whether they were too scared, whether they just didn't want to. I don't know, but it is so scary. Now, in the videos online, which I will warn you are extremely graphic, it's you can see him literally fanning the fire with this t-shirt.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And he's just standing on the platform right outside the door of the subway car watching it all unfold. And there are also people just standing on this platform watching it as well, kind of just like frozen in shock, not really sure what to do. But it's crazy, because it's like he wanted to see his handiwork and wasn't even trying to flee right away.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, someone who worked at the hotel told the officer that they witnessed three unknown men who had dropped this baby off. And not just dropped the baby off, like, on the curb, not like that's okay, obviously, but, like, they apparently had the baby in a stroller, and then they wheeled this stroller to the concierge desk.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Also in the videos, you can see that the woman is completely just like left alone, helpless, then standing upright, burning to death. She was motionless, just standing, holding onto the pole, stuck in pain, burning. It is really very difficult to watch even with everything blurred out. So I just want to warn you, I would not go Googling for these videos. It is a difficult watch.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, these are a couple of videos from witnesses who saw her burn inside that subway car. These are all over the internet. Even though you're not going to see the visuals of this if you're not on YouTube, I just want to give you a little warning. It's even hard to listen to, especially knowing the fact that while this video was being taken, a woman was literally burning to death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
But take a listen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Sebastian is from Guatemala, and he was in the U.S. illegally. According to documents, he was deported back in 2018, but then he reentered the U.S. sometime between then and now. According to the NYPD, his last known address was a Brooklyn homeless shelter for men who were struggling with substance abuse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
The shelter he was staying at has not given any comment and has definitely not given any information on Sebastian either. According to the police, though, Sebastian stayed and he watched this entire thing unfold. Then, he didn't try to flee at any point during this horrific murder. Witnesses also said that he was just, you know, extremely calm the entire time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, the way that he was found was that his picture was captured on body cam footage and also on security camera footage. The image was then posted online. And then later that day, some high schoolers who were riding the train recognized him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So they called the police to say they saw somebody who looked like the suspect, which, I mean, thank God they were able to catch him because who knows if he would have done this to somebody else. I mean, I would imagine he probably would have. So Sebastian was arrested and charged with one count of first degree murder and three counts of second degree murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
He was also charged with one count of first degree arson. Now this is obviously pretty serious in and of itself because that first degree murder charge carries the possibility of life without parole.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Originally, Sebastian pleaded not guilty and he told the police that he drinks a lot of alcohol, that he didn't even know what happened, that like he was confused by everything, you know, you know, tale as old as time, right? But he was trying to say that, you know, blame it on the alcohol. What's that song? Blame it on the alcohol.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
But then when they did that, they just walked away, which what are you talking about? Like three men just dropping a baby off at the front desk or at the bell desk or the concierge desk or whatever it was like, it's really crazy. So then the baby was by themselves there for about 30 minutes until that police officer arrived.
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I don't even know if that's the lyrics, but you know, you guys know I can't sing. So he had a court appearance scheduled for last Friday, but he ended up waiving his appearance and he ended up being indicted on the murder and the arson charges. So now he is scheduled to be arraigned on January 7th.
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Federal officials also said that they will file a request for Sebastian to be turned over to ICE after the criminal case against him comes to a close. But the whole thing, and I think the reason why so many people wanted coverage on this and are talking about it and why it's gone viral is because it truly is mind-boggling, right? I mean, for me, I literally cannot wrap my head around any of it.
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The way he literally just set her on fire and murdered her, watching, cool, calm, collected, not, you know, a care in the world. And then his justification or his excuse is, oh, I drink a lot. I don't know what happened. It's blurry. It's fuzzy. I mean, it's sick. He murdered somebody for no reason, and my opinion, I don't know if you agree is, he probably would have done it again.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, Mayor Eric Adams posted on X, or, you know, formerly Twitter, and he said, quote, this type of depraved behavior has no place in our subways, and we are committed to working hard to ensure that there is swift justice for all victims of violent crime.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
He also said that they are pushing to bring additional federal charges for Sebastian, even though those probably won't add any time to his sentence, but... I would imagine it still is just for the justice of it all, right? I mean, not exactly the way that I thought we would be starting 2025 off. I mean, I know it's a true crime podcast, okay, guys?
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But, like, I thought maybe we wouldn't have the depravity we always have, but we do. We do. People are just sick and twisted and evil. And if this is any indication of how 2025 is going to go, please just watch your back. Watch your back, as always. Anyways, thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Headline Highlights with me, Annie Elise. I appreciate you guys being here.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Headline highlights edition, also 2025 edition. Happy New Year. And here's a little New Year's snacky treat for you guys.
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As a reminder, like I said at the top of the episode, we will now be publishing these on YouTube as well. The YouTube channel is called 10 to Life, so you could check it out over there, but you can always continue listening for free right over here on whatever podcast app you use. All right, guys, thanks so much for tuning in.
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I will be back on the mic with you first thing Monday morning with a deep dive into an all new case. And again, also, I guess as a little reminder, because I know some of you are still on break, whether it's from school, from work, from wherever, if you feel like you're running out of content to binge, because I know a A ton of podcasters just like shut down for the last two weeks.
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I put out, not only have we been putting out the regular content, but we also put out extra bonus episodes every Friday right here on the podcast. Now those are only available on the podcast app, Apple specifically, or you can get access on Patreon, patreon.com slash Annie Elise. but those are bonus episodes. They are ad free right now. If you sign up, you unlock about 75 of them.
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So you will definitely have a lot of stuff to binge, but we put a new one out every Friday on top of that. So even once you catch up on the full 75, you will have a new one every single Friday. So if you be like, you always need more content to binge. You don't just have enough, you know, I'm here to help you out. All right, guys. Thank you again.
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So I don't know what the plan was, why nobody was following these three men, asking them questions, why these three men have this baby. It's very bizarre. So the police officer then said that the baby's mother, a woman named Ruby Verduzco, walked into the casino 15 minutes later. Now, she apparently told the police officer that she had, quote, fought with her baby daddy.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
I will be talking with you on Monday and until then be nice. Don't kill people. Watch your back. Don't join any cults and just stay safe. All right. Thanks guys. Bye.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And then because of that fight, she left the baby with some of her friends for a little while. Which, I'm sorry, but this woman told a police officer that she got into a fight with her, you know, baby daddy, so because of that, she left her child unattended at a casino to deal with this argument.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, another thing is, she couldn't name any of these so-called friends that she left her literal child with. She couldn't name them to the cop. So... It feels not only like a recipe for disaster, of course, but also pretty shady. Like you're saying, even if you are a scum of the earth mother and saying, oh, I left them with my friends because I needed to go deal with my toxic relationship.
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Don't care if they leave them, you know, at a concierge desk or whatever. But then you can't even name the friends that you left your baby with. Like something just isn't working here for me. Now, authorities also said that she appeared to be super, super drunk. Ruby just like reeked of alcohol.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Police say that she was slurring her speech, her breath smelled like a literal mini bar, and that she was just, you know, hammered, wasted, super drunk. Police said that Ruby was, though, able to tell the authorities her baby's name, but she was still too drunk or irresponsible or both to give them the correct date of birth. Kind of feels like Mother of the Year, right?
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
You can't even tell them your baby's birthday, give me a break. So then, as if there's not enough chaos in the mix already, Ruby then calls a man on the phone who she claims is her baby's daddy. Now, his name was never released. However, he did speak with the police on the phone, and he confirmed that he was in fact the father of the child.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
But he said that he was in Oklahoma, pretty far away from Florida, right? So he said that he had no way of getting to the Hard Rock Hotel to pick up his child. He also told the police that they should arrest Ruby and that the state should just take away custody of their baby completely. Which there's a lot to unpack with all of that right now, okay?
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Because first of all, she said that she had an argument with the baby's dad and that's why she left the baby with her friends. But he's in Oklahoma. So was the argument on the phone? And even if it was like the worst argument of all time, you're on the phone. Like, why would that require you to leave your child with friends who you can't even name?
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Not that there's any excuse that would make that, you know, any more justifiable. But then he is in Oklahoma saying, yeah, we got to fight. That is my kid, but she's unfit. So the state should just take custody of the child. which in my opinion, that's a clear indication that he doesn't care about the wellbeing of his baby. She clearly doesn't give a shit about the wellbeing of her baby.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
There we go again. It's just really frustrating. And the police obviously thought that this whole situation was fishy because remember, she had said the whole reason she left the baby at this hotel was because she got in a fight with him and it just didn't make any sense. So not long after that phone call, this baby daddy, who is unnamed at this point,
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
I have been hearing so much feedback from all of you guys over on YouTube asking if I could cross post the headline highlights episodes onto YouTube because I Before it was audio only, you could only listen to it on the podcast.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
called back to tell the police that he was lying, that he actually wasn't in Oklahoma. He was in Orlando. But he said even though he was in Orlando, he told the police officer he, quote, wasn't sure if he could come to the Hard Rock and retrieve his child. Which, what are you talking about? Like, first, why are you lying that you're in a different state?
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Then you call back saying, oh, no, no, I am in the same state. I am in Florida. But I don't know if I can get a ride to the Hard Rock to get my baby. So give the baby to the state. Like, Uber? Cab? I don't care. Hitchhike, my man. Like, figure it out. But again, I think there's something else going on here. Like, the just complete disregard for this baby is next level.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So this baby was literally left helpless at this casino, with the mother being drunk, clearly unable to take care of them. And now you have this supposed father on the phone just leaving the baby high and dry. So... Absolutely mind-boggling. So police then, when all this was, like, unfolding, arrested Ruby since she didn't know where, who with, or how long she had left her own child alone.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So she has been charged with two counts of felony child neglect. Police then called the Florida Department of Children and Families, who ended up taking custody of this baby, but... Like I said, there are still so many unanswered questions. Like, how the heck did this baby get left alone in the first place? Who were these three guys who dropped this baby off?
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Why did they think that the Hard Rock Casino was a good place to drop this baby off at? Was Ruby staying at the hotel? Did the baby just get dropped off there? Was there some sort of, I don't know, like handoff, pass off transaction? I don't know. It is just insane. And disgusting when you think about this baby that was so neglected by the two people who were supposed to look out for them.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
I mean, I hope that whoever these people are, they see justice because this is just absolutely unacceptable to me. Now we're going to move a little bit further across the opposite direction back towards me now in the country and actually out of the country, because now we are going to go near the Mexico and U.S. border. because this feels like it is straight out of a horror movie.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And I am here to officially announce that you asked and I am here delivering starting now, starting right now this week, headline highlights will be posted on YouTube as well. So you can either continue listening to us over on the podcast app, whichever one you use, or you can watch it over on YouTube and on my 10 to life YouTube, but excited about that.
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I'm talking, like, horror movie that's, like, not sci-fi-y, but, like, it's so beyond scary that it doesn't even seem believable. Like, Hills Have Eyes is kind of scary because a dozen skeletons have now been found in secret graves near the U.S.-Mexican border.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And this is crazy because we just covered another story in a recent episode of Headline Highlights where there were 20 human skulls being found on a property in New Mexico. Just feels like why are there so many remains being found, right? So the bodies were found last week in Chihuahua, which is a northern state in Mexico. And this mass grave site was just south of El Paso.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, authorities said that they found 12 bodies in total in 11 secret graves, which that is just insane. I mean, that is a dozen dead bodies in a hidden mass grave. Like, it is absolutely horrifying. They found the first body on the 18th of December. Then, they expanded their search, leading the police to find the other 10 graves.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now, all of the remains are currently unidentified, and everything that has been found so far has been sent to forensics, but there isn't a lot of information. The investigation, of course, is ongoing.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
However, hopefully, with the forensic medical service, they'll be able to figure out what the cause of deaths were, the identities of these people, what happened, maybe start narrowing in on some sort of suspect. I don't know. But... To just kind of level set it statistically, currently there are approximately 120,000 missing people in Mexico.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And because of the insanely high number of missing persons, friends and family usually end up having to search for the victims all by themselves or form like independent search groups. So it hasn't been released how they originally found these bodies or where the victims originally died. But again, it's all part of a continued ongoing investigation.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
remains being found, it literally sends a chill down my spine. It also kind of gives like Yellowstone vibes. I don't know if you guys watch that, but you know how they drop them off at the train station. You get what I'm saying? Where it's like, then somebody like discovers this massive dump site. I don't know. It makes me nervous.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now this other story, okay, we're going to move into the next story. I know I'm going a little quick, but I just have so much to talk with you guys about. I didn't think that this was real. I saw it come up. I can't remember if I saw it come up on my For You page on TikTok or if it was on Instagram, but I thought that it was like a prank at first until I started researching it.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
But I want you to brace yourselves for this next one because it's pretty wild. So a pizza delivery woman in Florida allegedly came back to a delivery site and then she stabbed the customer repeatedly over a bad tip that she received. And it gets worse, okay? If your jaw's on the floor right now, it's about to like sink below the floor, okay?
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Because Brianna Alvelo, who is just 22 years old, delivered an order to the Riviera Motel in Kissimmee, Florida. She had delivered the pizza to a woman named Melinda Arizari. The order was said to have been around roughly $33, but Melinda only had a $50 bill. So that's what she gave for the tip, like 50 to do the whole thing. But Melinda asked Brianna if she could have change to break that 50.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
However, Brianna said she didn't have any change. I don't know if that's true. Maybe she was looking to get the whole tip, which would what be $17. But anyway, after looking for smaller bills, all Melinda could find was $2. So she gave her the $2 as a tip because she wasn't going to give her the full 17. And then I guess she must've paid on her phone on an app.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now we have a lot to talk about today because unfortunately 2025 seems like there's not gonna be any better quality people out there from 2024, still the scum of the earth, disgusting human beings who are doing just like evil vile shit. Sorry for cussing, but I guess that should be a New Year's resolution, right? I need to like clean up my mouth.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
I don't know because she didn't have any other cash. I don't know the story, but basically what I know is that the pizza delivery driver left with $2 as a tip on the $33 pizza order. Now, according to Melinda, Brianna then just rolled her eyes and kind of walked away without saying anything. But take a listen to this.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Now look, I'm sure nobody is a fan of crappy tips, but what happens next in this situation is literally beyond anything I have ever heard. It is just unheard of. That's why I thought this was a prank. Now, I'm not sure how this even escalated the way that it did. But Brianna allegedly came back to the motel shortly after that delivery, but this time she was armed. She also wasn't alone.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
This time she was with a man whose identity has not yet been released, but he was armed with a gun. And Brianna allegedly was armed with a pocket knife. Now, when they got back to the motel, Brianna and this man were dressed in all black. They were also wearing face masks. So they loudly just started pounding on the motel door, waiting for Melinda to answer.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And when Melinda opened the door, they forced themselves inside her motel room. There, inside the room, it was Melinda, her boyfriend, and her five-year-old daughter. They were apparently all there to celebrate a birthday.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So once inside, the man forced the boyfriend to go inside the bathroom and he held him inside this bathroom at gunpoint. Now, while he kept the boyfriend in the bathroom, Brianna went through Melinda's purse, kind of just like rifling through it. She broke the daughter's Nintendo Switch, was like just really trying to wreak havoc and scare everybody who was in that room.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
Anyway, let's talk about this first case that takes us to Florida because this case is pretty wild, okay? A baby was abandoned inside a hard rock casino. And there's a lot of details that haven't really been revealed here, but I'm going to break down like the timeline for you. And there is something very sketchy here. And
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
And in all of this chaos, Melinda was trying desperately to protect her daughter. So she threw her on the bed. She tried to grab her cell phone, but Brianna grabbed the cell phone and then smashed it. Then she allegedly stabbed Melinda all over her body 14 times. The man then came out of the bathroom and he told Brianna it was time for them to go.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
So the two of them just left as if they didn't just do something horrific over a literal pizza delivery tip, okay? And it gets even worse if you can believe that. But speaking about Melinda, she had stab wounds on her chest, her arms, her leg, and stomach, and she also ended up having to get surgery for a ruptured lung.
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228: Mom Left Baby with 3 Men at Casino, Stabbed 14x Over Bad Pizza Tip, 12 Human Remains Found & Woman Kills Husband Then Flees on Kayak
She was immediately rushed to the hospital, but while she was at the hospital getting treated, she also found out she was pregnant. She was a few weeks pregnant to be more specific. So not only did this insane lunatic stab this woman 14 times, but she also stabbed her unborn child. I mean, not literally, but you know what I mean? She was pregnant.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
No footage, no witnesses, no information, and they really wanted to know what happened in those missing minutes. And as the days dragged on, his family really began losing hope. By February 13th, after eight long days of searching, they came to the realization that he probably wasn't going to be coming home. Something probably happened to him.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Like I said, he wasn't the kind of guy who would just disappear without a trace. And deep down, they all knew that something terrible had happened.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So that day, their worst fears were realized because that's when his body was found in Lady Bird Lake. He was fully dressed. He was wearing the exact same clothing that he was wearing the night that he went missing. He had his wallet in his pockets, his phone in his pockets. It was literally like just either was placed in this lake or walked into the lake.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, I will say that his death was connected to a 911 call that was made around the time that Jason decided to head home from the bar on February 5th, around 2 a.m., because a man called 911 around that time saying that he did witness somebody who was stumbling along the pathway along Lady Bird Lake.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The caller also said that this person who was stumbling, they could see them vomiting into the lake before then slipping into the water. The witness rushed to help, but when their efforts failed, they ran to a nearby hotel so they could call 911. All I know is this.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So naturally, all of the locals have been freaking out, right? They think that there's a possible serial killer on the loose. I mean, what other conclusion could you really come to, right? However, the police continue to insist that there is absolutely no reason to panic.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Police arrived at the scene around 2.16am, which was very shortly after that 911 call was placed and very soon after he started his walk home. But when they got there, this person who had supposedly fell into the water was nowhere to be found. There were also no signs of a struggle, no footprints, nothing to suggest that this person had even been there at all.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Fast forward then to when Jason's body was found and the police started connecting the dots. I mean,
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
they claimed okay this man that was referenced in this 911 call that had to be jason that's what makes the most sense case closed right just another terrible unfortunate circumstance of accidental drowning or could the call have been made intentionally to explain away why a body may be found in the lake so the official autopsy report ruled his death as drowning and the medical examiner said that his body was typical of somebody who had been in the water for multiple days there were no significant external or internal injuries
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
His brain, yes, was slightly swollen, but apparently that can happen in drowning cases, so there were absolutely zero signs of foul play. But Jason's family and friends weren't ready to accept that official explanation, because something about it just did not sit right. And when the autopsy report came back, it also revealed a detail that raised major red flags.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
There was partially undigested food in Jason's stomach, which, if Jason was the one seen vomiting near the water into the water, his stomach should have been mostly empty, right? right? He'd also said that the only substance that was found in his system was alcohol. There wasn't anything out of the ordinary. No drugs, no toxins, nothing suspicious.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But still, his family wasn't convinced, so they decided to request a second autopsy. And this time, the second report came back with a new detail. GHB was in Jason's system. And this is the same drug that is commonly referred to as the date rape drug because this drug, it causes confusion, drowsiness, even unconsciousness, especially if it's mixed with alcohol.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And I will say there is this weird movement out there, not movement, but like this weird trend out there where younger kids are dosing themselves with GHB, like a small dose because...
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
They want, you know, it's like the new drug of choice or one of the drugs of choice, but they're doing it in a smaller dose than what a lot of predators will use for the date rape drug, which personally can't wrap my head around it. I don't know why anybody would ever want to dose themselves with GHB. I have been slipped the drug unknowingly before. I was in it at a club in LA.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
In fact, they say that there's no obvious signs of foul play, and that all of these deaths, simply, they're chalking it up to accidental drownings. They basically are saying, you know what? All of these guys, all of these victims, they were out partying, they were drinking heavily, then they accidentally stumbled into the lake, they drown, and that's really all it is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
I may have talked about it on here. And this guy who I thought was my friend gave me a shot and it had GHB in it. And it was the scariest night of my life, hands down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
luckily pretty soon after i consumed it i knew that something was wrong and i had some friends there at the club as well and they like rushed me out and took me home but i was like on the floor of this shower as they were running the shower vomiting all over myself i couldn't stand up i couldn't even like open my eyes it was a nightmare which thank god my friends were there because god only knows what could have happened if you know they hadn't been there and this guy
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
was with me the whole night. But anyway, I do not understand why somebody would willingly dose themselves with that. So anyway, they find GHB in his system. However, the medical examiner had an explanation for this. They said that GHB often occurs naturally in the body after death and that it's all a product of decomposition.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
However, as you can imagine, for Jason's family, this didn't feel like a good enough reason. They were sure that Jason had been drugged while he was at that bar and that likely he was being watched and then attacked while he was on his way home. Today's episode is brought to you by Ollie. That's Ollie, in case you're wondering. And trust me, your dog is going to lose their mind over this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, if you've been around for a while, you know that my dog Freckles is basically the pickiest eater in the house, which is saying a lot because I also have two toddlers. But we've tried everything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
kibble toppers mixing in a little you know this or that and he still just looks at us like you expect me to eat that are you effing for real you expect me to eat that but ollie has been a total game changer for this because it's the first time he's actually excited for mealtime i showed you guys some of the videos on my story because i was laughing so hard my instagram story that is
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
I was loving so hard with just how quickly he ran to the bowl and like devoured this food and just looked at me like, okay, bitch, I'm ready for some more. You know, like he was so into it. I mean, he does his like tail wagging, his full spin, his impatient little hops all around.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
It is so great, not only because he's happy, but also because it's the clean, fresh nutrition that your dog needs with zero fillers or preservatives. Just real whole foods made right here in the U.S., And Ollie makes it super easy too.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
You take a quick 30 second quiz about your pup, things like their weight, their activity level, any health stuff, and they build out a customized meal plan that is perfectly portioned for your dog. Then they send you a starter box with two weeks worth of food and a full transition guide.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So you're not left wondering like, okay, how do I switch this up without them like throwing up or pooping everywhere, upsetting their stomachs, you know the drill. And the food itself, it honestly sounds better than some of the stuff in my own fridge. I'm just going to be real with you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Freckles is obsessed with the fresh beef with sweet potatoes, but they also have things like fresh turkey with blueberries, even fresh lamb with cranberries. And because it's gently cooked and ships fast, there's no need for preservatives. It's just fresh, real food. They also offer three meal plans.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So whether you want to go full fresh or just use it as a topper or mix it in with their fresh baked recipes, you can find what works for your dog and your routine. They also have treats and supplements too because, you know, of course they do. So all I'm just saying is Ollie might be the only member of our house not complaining about dinner these days.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
There's nothing bigger at play here. There's no reason to be scared. But despite these reassurances from the police, the community...
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And knowing that it can add two and a half extra years to our dog's life, that is a no brainer. So give your pup a fresh start this new year by letting them taste test a personalized meal plan with Ollie. Head to ollie.com slash AE, tell them about your dog, and use code AE to get 60% off your first box of meals when you subscribe today. Plus, they offer a clean bowl guarantee on the first box.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So if you're not completely satisfied, you will get your money back. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash A-E and enter code A-E to get 60% off your first box. Start your dog's new year off right with Ollie. So the Austin locals just could not ignore this growing pattern any longer. There were too many deaths in such a short period of time. Similar, you know, circumstances for a lot of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Too many similarities and too few answers. It just didn't seem like a coincidence anymore.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
is scared they are fearful it's not adding up to them i mean maybe you could explain one two maybe call it even three accidental drownings but the amount of bodies that they have been discovering i don't know it gives me a little bit of pause too so people can't help but wonder Is there something else going on that is darker and deeper here? Could there be a serial killer?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And sure enough, exactly one month after Jason went missing, this time on March 5th, 2023, another body was pulled from the water of Lady Bird Lake. This time, it was the body of 40-year-old Clifton Axtell. He was a father of two, and he had been missing since February 25th. And sure enough, he was last seen at a place called Stubbs Barbecue, which was just a few blocks away from 6th Street.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Like the others, details surrounding Clifton's death were pretty scarce, leading a lot of people to just fill in the blanks on their own. And for a while, some people speculated that he might have even taken his own life, possibly jumping off a bridge and doing that. After all, he did, yes, have a history of depression.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
However, just two days before his disappearance, Clifton went to the doctor and explicitly said that he was not experiencing any sort of suicidal thoughts. So was this really that? Did he really take his own life? Once again, his death was just ruled as accidental drowning, and the case was quickly closed. But like clockwork, almost one month later, it happened again.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
On April 1st, the body of a 30-year-old man named Jonathan Honey was pulled from the water near Rainy Street. Now, Jonathan wasn't an Austin local. He was actually from Washington, D.C. He had flown into the city to party with his friends for a bachelor party. And on the night of March 31st, Jonathan and his friends hit Rainy Street.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
They were doing what hundreds of people do every single weekend there. Bar hopping, dancing, drinking, having a great time. And at some point, Jonathan separated from his friends and then decided to go get something to eat at one of the, you know, many food trucks that line up and down that street. That was the last time that anybody saw him alive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
When Jonathan didn't return from getting food, his friends became very worried. But all of their calls, their text messages, they went unanswered. And by the next day, they reported him missing. The search didn't last long, though, because on April 1st, his body was discovered floating in the lake.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And get this, the lake, or the river that flows into the lake, is literally just a couple minutes' walk from the last place that Jonathan was seen. Now, the autopsy, predictably, ruled his death as an accidental drowning, the exact same conclusion that had been reached with all of the other victims. However, I will say that some of the details this time did not fit the usual pattern.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
His tox report showed that he had alcohol in his system, which really wasn't a surprise after a big night out drinking, right? It also showed that he had amphetamines in his system, which was quickly explained away because he also had a prescription for ADHD medication, which contained amphetamines. However, there was something unusual in the tox report.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Hydroxazine, and I'm hoping I'm saying that right. But this hydroxazine isn't this party drug or anything like that that somebody would take recreationally. It's actually found in medications for allergies, anxiety. It's even used as a sleep aid. One of its main side effects causes drowsiness, which we know could impair somebody, especially if it's mixed with alcohol.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, some reports did say that the reason this was found in his system was because he took Zyrtec and he took that for allergies and that that contains a small dose of this. But who really knows? And what really set Jonathan's case apart from the others were his injuries. Because unlike the other victims, Jonathan did have visible contusions.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
one on his left eyelid, another one on the side of his neck. He also had several cuts along his face. And these weren't the kind of injuries that you would expect from somebody who simply tripped and then fell into a body of water. It looked more like injuries that happened from the result of a struggle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Is it the rainy street ripper at Lady Bird Lake? So guys, I'm going to break it all down for you, but hopefully you don't have nightmares because this case definitely might give you some nightmares. So let's jump right in. Buckle up. It is a terrifying one.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So his friends were confused, to say the least, because when Jonathan left to go get food, he was acting completely normal, not overly drunk, not disoriented, nothing like that. So how did he end up in the lake? And more importantly, how did he go from standing in the middle of a street full of people to then drowning in shallow water just blocks away?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
In fact, his death was so unexplainable and caused so much uproar in the community that they decided to start actively investigating his death themselves. People started walking up and down the shorelines of the lake, trying to really understand how could somebody accidentally drown here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
During this, call it community, investigation, many people found that the shoreline was surprisingly shallow in a lot of places, making it even more difficult for people to believe that this full-grown adult could accidentally drown without some other factor being at play here and being involved. And then two more bodies surfaced in 2023.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
On April 15th, the body of 30-year-old Christopher Clark was discovered, and this time it was discovered about two miles away from Rainey Street. And then on June 27th, the body of Moga Degala was found only one mile away from Rainy Street. In both cases, they followed the exact same pattern.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The bodies were found floating in the water, which had very little information released to the public soon after. Cause of death was ultimately ruled accidental drowning and no foul play being involved. But by this point, these were the fifth and sixth bodies that were pulled from this lake in just six months. So was it accidental drowning or was it a dumping ground for a serial killer?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And not to mention all these victims, they were all men all around roughly the same age and just vanishing under very similar circumstances and ultimately all meeting the same fate, dead inside the water. So it's not hard to believe that the city was buzzing with rumors and theories, right? Everybody was trying to sleuth out the details, figure out the truth here, figure out what was going on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
There were theories that were flooding social media, Reddit, Facebook groups, I mean, you name it, saying there was this predator who's out there on the loose. He's lurking around targeting men who are alone, leaving the bars, possibly under the influence, and then a predator who's basically picking that as their perfect target.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So as the city's in uproar, the police decided they needed to release a statement. They wanted to calm everybody down, bring it all down a notch, try to relax everybody, hoping to, you know, shut down the rumors, ease people's fears. And the statement was interesting because it read, The Austin Police Department is aware of speculations regarding recent drownings in Lady Bird Lake.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. The case we're talking about today is one that has been in the works for quite some time because a lot of you guys have been requesting it for well over a year now, maybe even two years.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Although these cases are still under investigation and evidence is being analyzed, at this time, there is no evidence in any of these cases to support allegations of foul play. While each incident has occurred at the lake, the circumstances, exact locations, and demographics surrounding these cases, they vary.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Our investigators approach every case with an open mind and objectively examine all available evidence. We work closely with the Travis County Medical Examiner's Office, which conducts a parallel investigation into all deaths. The medical examiner performs autopsies in each of these types of death investigations.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The results of these autopsies have not revealed any trauma to the bodies nor indication of foul play. One common theme of drownings in Austin this year is the combination of alcohol and easy access to Lady Bird Lake, which has numerous access points. many of these access points can be challenging to see at night.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The parks in which most of these drownings have occurred are park areas that close at 10 p.m. and these occur after the park closes. We advise the public to follow the rules on park closures.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So the statement did put some people at ease. Not everybody. There was definitely still speculation going wild, but it did start to put some people at ease. And for a while, it kind of felt like the nightmare had finally ended because months went by without a single body being found in the lake. So the city began to breathe a little bit again. The rumors started to fade away.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The fear started to dull. But there were still a couple people who were questioning it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Okay, so let me just start by describing Austin. And don't take offense if you live in Austin. This isn't casting shade to anybody. You might actually enjoy this and embrace this. But if Texas was a family, I feel like Austin would kind of be the black sheep in all of it. Almost like that weird cousin who wears, you know, the cowboy boots, the tie-dye shirt, maybe is vegan, who knows.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He hadn't been super drunk. He was 6'3". He was a big guy who could handle his alcohol. On top of that, he had been pacing himself on purpose that night because he knew that it was going to be a long bachelor party weekend, so he didn't want to overdo it on day one and then be out of commission for days and have the worst hangover of all time. So it was definitely confusing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Because despite being the capital city, Austin doesn't fit the traditional Texas mold. So much so that for years, Austin has proudly gone with the slogan, Keep Austin Weird, which for Austin is less of a slogan and more of a way of life. And Austin is a mashup of people. I mean, you're talking football fanatics, foodies, live music lovers, night owls, people who like to party, all of those things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And like I said, just to go back to the GHB conversation and when I was drugged firsthand, it wipes your memory. It truly does. For me, I only remember, it's just like what they had reported. It's fragments. I remember being handed the shot and we were actually, he was like a promoter for the club, which is so embarrassing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So we were, he had like access to all the different areas of the club and we were like in the kitchen part. And maybe it was the office. I honestly can't even remember. It was something like, you know, in the back of the club. And he hands me the clear shot glass with the tequila and now what I know was drugs. And the next thing I remember is being out by one of the like velvet booth type areas.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
I think the club was called Wonderland. I'm almost positive it was. And it was like Alice in Wonderland theme. I remember being out by one of those booths and kind of like looking at my friend AJ and like being like something's wrong. I don't feel right. And then the next memory I have was being back at my friend's apartment on the floor of the shower with the water on vomiting.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And then the next thing I remember was waking up and not really having a memory of what happened. It was like just three little memories from that night. And so for all of these people who are reporting, I don't do drugs. Drugs are my system, but I've never done drugs. I don't remember anything. How did I get here? That is definitely a result of being drugged. That's what it does.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
It wipes your memory. But here, now you have this guy, this 6'3 guy who's intentionally pacing himself, handling his alcohol. He's now been in a coma for weeks. He was beat to a pulp. And the official story was that he just was drunk, super drunk, and accidentally fell off the bridge. But Jeff was not going to buy this story. He knew that this wasn't like him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He wouldn't just get so wasted and so drugged up that he would fall off a fucking bridge. Also, the bridge that they say he fell off of, it wasn't some open ledge. It had high walls, high barriers. It wasn't something that you would just trip over and then fall overboard. And also, remember that 911 call that was made?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The person who was cool, calm, collected, knew exactly what was going on and identified somebody being found. Just like that earlier 911 call when somebody said, oh, I think I see somebody in Lady Bird Lake and quickly gets off. Just too coincidental. right? And where there's smoke, there's fire. And Jeff, too, thought that this was super suspicious.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He said that the spot that he was found at, it wasn't even easy to see from the bridge. So it was almost like this person who called 911 was specifically looking for him, or they knew specifically where he was, because a regular pedestrian walking that bridge would not have had the visibility to see where he was. So how'd they know he was there?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And also, if you're calling 911, let me just ask you personally, if you're calling 911, saying you see a body lying under a bridge or somebody in a lake or somebody not moving, are you cool, calm, and collected? Are you also asking to be anonymous? Probably not. I mean, if you are, I would really like to know your reasoning.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
If it's me, I'm calling 911 and I'm saying, oh my God, there's a body here. I don't know what to do. Do you want me to go near it? Do you want me to try to help them? Do you want me to see if they're alive? My name's Annie. What can I help you with? Like that seems to me at least like the normal course of action and how you would respond.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So Jeff, he theorized and tried to make sense of it, and he's like, what if the person who called 911 was the same person who pushed him off that bridge? What if that same person drugged him? He was convinced by this point that he was targeted. He was a predator's clear-cut target, and possibly even the predator who was the rumored serial killer roaming the streets of Austin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And because Austin originally was attracting artists, misfits, musicians, things of that nature, they've gained a huge popularity over the years. It's kind of become a magnet for tech companies, startups, entrepreneurs, and it's caused hundreds of new people to move there every single day. The population right now sits about a million people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And another man thinks that he may have been a target as well. 21-year-old Christian Pugh vanished after a night out in November of 2019. On the night of November 17th, Christian had been out bar hopping with his friends all along Rainy Street, and everything was going normal, everything was fine. But Christian was last seen around 1.30 a.m.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
It's also become a tourist hotspot, a place where people go to drink, to dance, to listen to music, to party, because they have a pretty good nightlife scene. I mean, two spots in particular that are very popular, 6th Street and Rainy Street. And 6th Street is legendary for its dive bars, its live music, its, you know, chaotic energy at times.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Similar to Jeff, similar to Connor, similar to so many of these people, right around that 1.30, 2 o'clock hour. Christian had gotten separated from his group of friends after that night out on Rainey Street. And just like Jeff and Connor, when his friends tried to text him or call him, there was no response. Now, what ensued for the next couple of days was an ultimate frantic search.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Multiple law enforcement agencies combed the area. They were desperately searching for Christian. And even more weird, when the police checked surveillance footage from the bar where he was last seen, there was absolutely no sign of him leaving. It was almost like he walked into this bar and then just vanished, just ceased to exist at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But 60 hours, 6-0, 60 hours after he disappeared, Christian was finally found. He was found unconscious and barely clinging to life. His body was found deep in the brush along this trail right alongside surrounding Lady Bird Lake. It was hidden under the shadow of one of these bridges, just in the brush, deep in there, hidden away, tucked away.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And in fact, he was so well concealed that it's likely that somebody would have ever found him by accident. His body wasn't found near a busy path where a casual jogger or biker would maybe stumble across it. It was almost like somebody hid him there on purpose, in a place where they thought that nobody would ever look.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
His body was also a mile away, on the opposite side of the lake from where he was last seen. And that kind of just begs the question of, how'd he even get there? When first responders reached his body, Christian was in critical condition, and he had injuries that were so severe that, like the others, he was rushed to the hospital and he was immediately placed in a coma.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And this coma lasted an entire month. Now let me just say, Somebody's body has to be really badly injured to be placed in a medically induced coma.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So now here you have two people, very similar circumstances, who just vanished from their friends and beaten or injured so badly to where they needed to be placed in a medically induced coma at the same area, by the same lake, after partying on the same strip of bars. Again, at what point can you not chalk this up to a coincidence? That is too many similarities. And all of these are men.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
All of these are men who are out partying. Like, there's too many similarities. But once again, the official report from the Austin Police Department said it's nothing more than a tragic accident. Christian had fallen from this bridge by accident, probably was drunk. Case closed. But his injuries, they told a very different story because his body was battered.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He had multiple traumatic injuries, the kind that don't line up with this simple fall off of a bridge. And even if he had fallen off of a bridge, how did he end up then so hidden, so deep in the brush, so far away from where gravity would have naturally taken him if he fell off a bridge? No way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Like, they're saying he fell from a bridge, he was so injured because of the impact of that fall, but then he somehow managed to move himself all the way into this deep, hidden brush? Make that make sense. So Christian's family never accepted that this was just an accident.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
They believed that Christian had been drugged, attacked, and then intentionally thrown from the bridge, then left for dead in this secluded spot where nobody was supposed to find him. And guys, it just gets weirder.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And over time, it earned the nickname Dirty 6th, just due to how it had these rowdy crowds, a lot of college students, just people who were really determined to party and
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, while many people believe that these men just happened to escape the clutches of a serial killer, others believe that this serial killer has been active for much longer than originally believed. After the string of deaths since 2022, police have also started to re-examine older cases and start to look at them with fresh eyes, cases that once did seem like accidents or isolated incidents.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But now, they seem very eerily familiar. For example, the death of Riyad Hamad in 2008. Riyad was a 55-year-old school teacher who was reported missing by his family on April 14, 2008. This was after he didn't return home after going to a nearby pharmacy. Then, two days later, he was found on the south side of Lady Bird Lake, and he had duct tape over his eyes and mouth.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He also had injuries to his face, his body, and his hands and his feet were bound. Despite these concerning circumstances, police ruled this death as a suicide. Which, tell me what person is taking their own life and putting duct tape over their eyes, their mouth, and binding their feet and hands? How does that work? Like, how do you even justify that, right? right?
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
To me, and I'm not trying to like be critical of the police department, but to me it almost seems like the police are more concerned with marketing Austin as this safe, beautiful community where people can go and tourists can come and everybody can have a great time and feel safe. So they're trying to explain away all these deaths rather than look at the writing on the right here?
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
party hard and have a good time and back in the day rainy street was this cute sleepy neighborhood that was filled with little charming bungalow houses but then when zoning laws changed in 2005 people started turning those houses into these really cool unique bars and these nightclubs just very very different from traditional bars so now it's a popular strip of bars clubs lounges and it attracts more of this older crowd compared to the college crowd that goes to 6th street
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Maybe they need to put somebody in undercover? Maybe they need to put more surveillance out there? I don't know, but how do you come to these conclusions? How do you say that that was self-inflicted and somebody's duct taping their eyes and their mouth and binding their hands and feet and also have injuries to their face and body? Like, what? Are you out of your mind?
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And in May 2008, just weeks after Riyadh's mysterious death, another teacher vanished. And of course, this teacher also vanished under eerily similar circumstances. Now, this teacher was a woman, and she had left her house late at night to make a quick run to the grocery store. But when she went to the grocery store, she never returned.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Days passed, and her family grew, obviously, increasingly desperate. They filed missing persons reports. They were putting flyers out. They were pleading for help. They just wanted answers. But then, a few days later, her body was discovered by a group of fishermen. And can you take a guess where it was discovered? Right there in Lady Bird Lake.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But what really stood out wasn't just where she was found, but more so the condition of her body when she was found. Because despite having been missing for only a few days at that point, her body was severely decomposed, far more than what would be expected in such a short amount of time. It just didn't make sense.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Then, fast forward to 2012, and the police found a 21-year-old named Cole Christensen, dead right there in a creek near Lady Bird Lake. His body was found by somebody passing by. Like so many of these cases, the police didn't really conduct much of an investigation. They just said his death wasn't suspicious, and his official cause of death has never even been released.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Then, between February of 2014 and 2016, just a two-year period, five more bodies were found, and these bodies were all belonging to people between 20 years old and 35 years old, and like all the other cases we've talked about, they were out drinking, out with friends, vanished, and then turned up in Lady Bird Lake or near Lady Bird Lake.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Later that same year, 25-year-old Christian White was in Austin attending the Austin City Limits Music Festival. And one night, he got separated from his friends and then, like the others, disappeared. They reported him missing, and his body was found in a river that connected to Lady Bird Lake. His tox report showed a slew of drugs in his system.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
However, an official cause of death was never revealed. And despite the tragic nature of all of these deaths, at the time, there wasn't a clear pattern or link between them. I mean, Austin is a pretty big city with over 40 to 50 homicides a year, so the sheer size of the city really made it difficult to connect these individual deaths to one another.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
It was hard to say whether they were anything more than just random occurrences. But one of the most concerning deaths happened just weeks later. because 25-year-old Martin Gutierrez had recently moved to Austin after graduating from Texas Tech University.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He moved in with his brother Mitchell and with his sister-in-law Whitney. And all three of them supposedly got along great. They loved going out together. So one night, along with a few of their friends, all three of them went out to dinner. And then after dinner, Martin decided to go out with some friends out on Rainey Street.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So they started out at one bar, which I want to say and make it clear, Martin did not have a drink at this bar. Then they went to another bar called Luster Pearl, and at this bar, Martin had exactly one drink. He and his friends then wandered over to another bar called Alibi, and apparently once they got there, Martin was eventually thrown out.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The bouncers at Alibi said that he was behaving very strangely. That was the reason he was thrown out. So because of that, Martin separated from his friends, and then he started heading down South Rainy Street all by himself, alone. Sounds familiar, right? And sure enough, Martin didn't make it home that night and never came home the next day either.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So just a short walk from both of these streets that are both the major popular ones in Austin, there is another local legend, you could say, and that is Lady Bird Lake. Sometimes it's referred to as Town Lake, and it's this stretch of water that's in the heartbeat of downtown Austin, and it actually spans over 460 acres.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
This caused his brother and his sister-in-law to, of course, you know, panic and really start to worry.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
It's taking us to Austin, Texas, and the title of this episode may have already given it away of what case we're talking about today. But it is one of the eeriest and I don't want to say complex, but almost like confusing, maybe one of the most confusing cases out there, because it's one of those cases where there's so many unanswered questions, so many possibilities.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Martin's family reported him as missing, and a large search ensued. Martin's disappearance was all over the news. Flyers were everywhere.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, because this stretch of water goes for so long and it's so large, there are quite a few bridges throughout it, you know, that go over past it where pedestrians can go and walk. And some of them even go there every night to watch the sunset, to watch dusk fall, to just really take in the beautiful scenery.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Finally, after a week of searching, a body was found near the area where Martin was last seen on surveillance footage. His body was in the lake, and he was also wearing the same clothing as the night that he went missing. And like almost all of the other deaths, the medical examiner in this case determined that his cause of death was drowning.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But Martin's family just was not convinced, because he had this very large contusion on the back of his head, and the medical examiner never gave an answer as to what that could have been from, what could have caused it. But in any event, the police closed the case almost as soon as they opened it.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And during the day, people surround the lake and kind of flock to it because there's bike paths, there's hiking trails, people will go on the lake and paddleboard, they'll kayak, just really kind of making it this outdoor playground. So the lake is hugely popular in this city. And the whole area, the trails that go around it, the water itself, it's just constantly full of people.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
His family has been insanely vocal about Martin's death, and they are sure that somebody did something intentionally to hurt him. His sister-in-law Whitney told that same publication, The Daily Dot, "...something I feel very deeply happened to him that night. There was no indication of him trying to hurt himself or commit suicide.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
He wasn't in any secretive groups trying to meet up with secretive people. Something happened to him."
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Needless to say, there's an obvious sense of unease that is just sweeping through the city, still to this day.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
However, in more recent years, the lake has gained a lot of notoriety for darker reasons, scarier reasons, not the fun outdoor playground or where you would go to maybe kayak in the afternoon. Because since 2022, 14 bodies have been pulled out of the water. 14, 1-4, that is a lot of bodies to pull out of a body of water.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
With all the inconsistencies and seemingly incomplete tox reports and medical reports, also pair that with the unexplained injuries, the rushed investigations, I mean, people aren't convinced that these deaths are not connected.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And in a statement to a local newspaper, the police said, "...the Austin Police Department Homicide Unit investigates each death in the city to determine if it is suspicious." Following the initial investigations, a medical examiner does a hands-on body exam to determine if there are any signs of physical injuries.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
The investigation then goes to the tox unit to determine if there is any internal damage. Through this process, one death near Lady Bird Lake in December of 2022 was ruled a homicide. The other deaths in and around Lady Bird Lake are not considered suspicious due to the results of these investigations. But despite this official stance, residents are not convinced.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Some are even convinced that the police might be intentionally withholding information so that they could avoid sparking panic among the tourists. Because remember, Austin's nightlife is a huge tourist destination.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Many also point to the striking similarities between all of the victims, mostly young men in their 20s and 30s, who are just conventionally attractive, have dark features, most of them are out and about on 6th or Rainy Street with friends, and then just disappear. And despite the reassurances from the police, the locals are not backing down.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
People are banding together, encouraging one another to really start taking extra precautions, using the buddy system, not going out alone, staying alert, keeping close to friends.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
More and more bars are also providing drug testing strips to their customers so that if you get a drink or leave your drink to go to the bathroom or somebody buys you a drink, you can test it and actually see if you are being drugged. I gotta say, if the bars are rolling that out and offering that to their customers, first of all, amazing work. I mean, good on you.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But also that tells me that they even suspect that there is probably somebody intentionally drugging people in these bars. In July of 2024, a petition was launched that is called Austin Police Department acknowledged that the Austin drownings may not be accidents. And this petition has already collected thousands of signatures.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But despite the growing public concern, the police have yet to announce any further investigation into these deaths. But the victims' families are also not just taking this lightly. They're demanding action as well. Many of them are convinced that somebody is responsible for the deaths of their loved ones.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And they're even saying, you know what, even if these deaths were accidents, which we don't believe that they are, the police need to step up and fix things, you know, step up their efforts. So with that, and what I mean by that is they're calling for major improvements to the all-around area. They're asking for a fence around the lake.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And if you go back even further before 2022, there's even more victims, which don't worry, I will get into that. So as I said, all of these victims that have been being pulled out of the lake all have similar enough resemblances or circumstances, such as partying at the nearby bars before going missing.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
more lighting, increased police patrol at night, additional cameras on those trails that surround the lakes. I mean, things to where there's more monitoring and more safety precautions put in place.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And while some of these changes have been implemented, a lot of locals feel like it still just isn't enough. They still feel that there's this sense of danger out there and it just continues to linger. A lot of the people believe that Austin is the perfect praying ground. You have people who are going out late night, heavy drinking, visitors who are unfamiliar with the area.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So it almost seems like a perfect place. playground for a predator. Easy targets, easy people, easy way to slip things in their drink. And look, I will be honest, I would say that everybody's pretty split. While a lot of people do suspect there is a serial killer out on the loose, there are a lot of people even in the Austin area who are saying it probably is just accidental drownings.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
I don't think there's a serial killer out there. You know, I think everybody's overreacting. So people are very divided. The But then in April of 2024, a bartender posted a very disturbing account on Reddit. Now, I'll just say this. We don't know what's reliable information on Reddit, right? People can post anything and everything over there.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Despite this, the story quickly gained a lot of attention because according to this post, a customer came into this bar, approached this bartender and just claimed to be the Rainy Street Ripper. And the poster on Reddit described him as a white man in his 40s. He had light brown hair, a muscular build, and he stood at around 5 feet 10 inches.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
the fact that a lot of them are young men, so many similarities that it really has convinced the locals that there is a serial killer out there, somebody who is targeting this particular type of victim. Locals have even dubbed this, you know, phantom, unknown serial killer as the Rainy Street Ripper.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But what was most chilling was the comment that this person allegedly said to this bartender. You know, not just the one of him being the Rainy Street Ripper, but that he claimed he was, quote, killing homos.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, I don't know if a serial killer would randomly just announce that to a bartender, although I have to say most of the bodies and victims being men, not that they've ever been confirmed to be gay or not. Maybe there's something to that if he thinks that they're gay. I don't really know.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But I also don't know if a serial killer is just going to up and like out themselves to a bartender or if like they said it in more of a not joking kind of way, but like, you know, unassuming kind of way. We know that sometimes in these cases, serial killers do get proud and they want to brag. So I don't know. Take it how you want. Do your own research.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And I am interested to hear your thoughts because I don't really know what to think. My guess is that it's probably not real. But like I said, the post did get a lot of traction. And one thing I think we can all agree on, I would at least hope, is that we do need more information to truly see if these deaths are connected. I mean, did they all go to the same bars? Did they have any other injuries?
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Were they all drugged with the same kind of drug? Did the men have anything else in common? Like, are there any connecting factors? Now, weirdly, in all of these circumstances, the police never said why they immediately ruled out foul play in all of these deaths. People also bring up that certain drugs, like GHB for example, can quickly metabolize and not even show up in autopsies.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So how many were drugged that we don't even know about? But again, I want to know what you guys think. Are people making something out of nothing? Are they just seeing what they want to see? Or is there really something deeper going on here? And if you're from Austin, let me know what the community is saying right now, too.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Let me know either on Spotify comments or in the review section on Apple, since that's the best way we can connect. And on Spotify, it's actually cool because I can comment back to you where I can't do that in the review section. But still, it's a way for us to engage. But I'm curious to know what you guys think.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Like I said, this has been one that has been in the works for a while now because so many people have been asking for coverage of this, and I felt like it was finally time. To me, there's just, I always say, where there's smoke, there's fire, and something just doesn't really sit right with me.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
I could understand people being drunk and accidentally falling into the water and drowning, very similar to Riley's strain, although I know a lot of people believe that there was foul play involved in that. So, like, I could definitely see that. But then you layer in the drugs in their system, You add in the injuries, some that had such severe injuries, they were put into a medically induced coma.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
You add in the weird vanishing act from all of them. Something just doesn't feel right here. Not at all. I mean, at best, at best, I would argue that somebody's at least drugging these people and then it's an accident, whether it's falling off the bridge or drowning, but that somebody still is behind it because they're the ones drugging them without their knowledge. But
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
that's the best case scenario worst case scenario is that they're drugged then targeted and then killed right so let me know what you guys think thank you so much for tuning in to another deep dive over here on serialously my usual sign off is something like of don't do this that's related to the case and i don't want to say don't go to austin because i love austin but i will say don't ever leave your drink unattended
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Stay safe. Watch your back. Be nice. Don't kill people. Don't leave your drink unattended. And don't ever accept a drink from a stranger unless it is like not even a bottle of beer that has the cap still on. Just don't. Don't. All right, guys. I'll be back with you on Thursday for Headline Highlights where we break down everything happening this week in the true crime world.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And so I will talk with you then. All right. Thanks for tuning in. And until the next one, like I said, stay safe. Be nice. Don't kill people. And don't accept any drinks from randos. All right. Bye, guys.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, this whole serial killer mentality first started back on Thursday, July 14th, 2022, because it was a super hot summer day. People were out paddleboarding, kayaking. The lake was full of people. People were out walking their dogs, just enjoying the, you know, scenery and the warm weather. And it was in the afternoon around 3 p.m., and everything just felt normal.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Austin was in full-on summer mode. People were enjoying the lake. But then people who were walking around the lake noticed that there was something unusual near 9 East Avenue. It was just around the corner from Rainy Street, that area with all the bars, and they noticed that there was something floating in the water.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Now, at first, they thought that, okay, maybe it's debris, maybe it's something harmless, maybe it's even a kayak turned over or something like that. But then as they got closer, it became way more clear. This was something that definitely was not supposed to be there because this wasn't just something casual that happened to be in the water. It was a body.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Multiple calls came flooding into 911, and within minutes, first responders arrived. Soon after they pulled this body out of the water, it was later identified. It was a 59-year-old man named Ricky Parks, and there wasn't really much known about Ricky, so the police pretty much quickly ruled this as an accidental drowning and then closed the case. You know, nothing to worry about.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
There was no foul play. They ruled that out. It was just kind of case closed. That's that. And for a few months, that really was what everybody thought happened, that it was an accidental drowning and everything stayed quiet. There were no headlines, there was no further explanation for Ricky's death, no new reports, just complete silence.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And like, I hate this word, but a lot of like spooky things surrounding this case to where it's hard to really make sense of it all. And And let me just kind of break it down. So for the past several years, there's been something that has just casting this like dark cloud over Austin, Texas.
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You know, people had moved on and almost forgotten about it. It was almost like his death just faded into the background. But then, December rolled around. And now Austin was settling into winter, not this bitter, harsh, unforgiving kind of winter, but a winter nonetheless. It wasn't these hot summer days.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And because of that, the lively summer energy that once was was kind of faded off, you know, kind of gone. Now it was like nights were getting ending earlier, it was getting darker earlier, people weren't packing the park because it was starting to get a little bit cooler, and it was now much emptier. until all of this just came flooding back because it happened again.
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Another body was found floating in the water. But just like last time, there were no real headlines, no breaking case, no news. The police just kind of said, you know, still, again, no foul play. It was an accidental drowning. This time, though, it was a 25-year-old man named Christopher Gutierrez. But that was that. Case closed. But then, just nine days later, not months later like before...
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Things took a big twist, because the body of Josue Moreno was found near a bridge on the South Lamer Boulevard area of the lake, and unlike the previous cases, his death was not written off as a simple drowning. Unlike the other bodies, he had a gunshot wound to his head, and the investigators also discovered that he had driven his truck off a bridge before then ending up in the water.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So police investigated, and ultimately, they found that Josue was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, that he was shot and killed by a 19-year-old kid named Santiago Peron. They said that he was shot in the early morning hours of December 19th, and when Santiago was found, he said that he shot Josue because he thought that he was somebody else. It was mistaken identity.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Santiago and his friends were trying to meet up with another group at the park, and they had the intent to confront someone who he apparently had a problem with. But then things got a little crazy and both groups fled in their cars. Santiago was trying to shoot at somebody from that rival group, but Josue just happened to drive by right at that moment and got caught in that crossfire.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
So obviously a heartbreaking crime, but by all means, you know, not foul play in the sense that it was intentional. It was more accidental or mistaken identity. And at least this body came with some answers. Now, initially, it was pretty alarming when Josue's body was found because that was the third body in that year.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And despite having more answers than the other two bodies that were found, people did start to get a little bit worried. And their fears only intensified because just days after his body was found, another body turned up. This time, it was 56-year-old Kyle Thornton. His body was found near the Congress Avenue Bridge, which was less than a mile from Rainey Street.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And it all started back in 2022 because bodies of mostly young men just started turning up in a lake that sits right there in the heart of the city. Just one after another after another. And what is interesting, too, is that all of these victims have striking similarities. not just in age, but in what they were doing right before they died.
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256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And like with Ricky Parks and Christopher Gutierrez, there was little information about what happened. The news barely even covered his death, so Austin police quickly just closed the investigation, not really looking into it. Once again, they said that his death was due to an accidental drowning, and no foul play was involved.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But by this point, the pattern was really getting difficult to ignore, especially by the locals, because bodies were turning up in the same body of water, very often near Rainy Street. Investigations were just closed almost as soon as they began, and it made people wonder, is this a coincidence? Or is there something more here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And just when people thought that the circumstances could not get any more unsettling, another body turned up. This time, it was on February 13th, 2023. And this body was 30-year-old Jason John, who he had been missing for eight days before his body was found. Jason had lived in Austin for two years, and despite the relatively short time he had lived in the city,
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
he had grown to absolutely love it. He had a girlfriend, he had tons of friends, he had a dog named Ruffles who was like his little adventurous sidekick, and Jason was the kind of guy who loved the outdoors. He spent his free time outside, rock climbing, hiking, going through the many scenic trails around the city.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But then, one night on February 4th, Jason went out with his friends to Rainy Street. They were going to celebrate a recent promotion, just have fun, unwind, drink a little bit. The night was filled with laughs, with drinks, just all around good vibes, and so much so that it kind of carried through into the early morning hours of February 5th.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
But then finally, at around 2 a.m., Jason decided he was going to call it quits. He was done for the night. and he lived just a 15-minute walk from Rainy Street. And he knew the area like the back of his hand, too, because he spent so much time in the outdoors, so he figured, you know, walking home was really no big deal. But as it turns out, that was the last time that anybody saw him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
When Jason's friends and family didn't hear from him the next day, and his neighbors had realized that his dog Ruffles had been home alone for hours, they knew that something was wrong here, because Jason wasn't the type to just vanish, especially not without checking in or making sure that his dog was okay. So by the afternoon of February 5th, he was officially reported as missing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And this time it was different because what followed in this report was a frantic citywide search. His friends and family flooded the streets with missing persons flyers. They appeared on local news stations. They were really spreading the news of his disappearance all over social media as well, hoping that somebody, anybody had seen him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
And eventually, they managed to uncover security camera footage of Jason walking home that night. And what's interesting is in this video, he appeared completely normal. No signs of distress, no signs of, you know, swaying here or there, being overly intoxicated, just a guy walking home after a night out, something that he had done countless times before.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
Because they all went missing in the same popular, buzzing, nightlife-type area, similar to, you know, you might recall Riley Strain in Nashville, but the, you know, the beat of downtown where everybody's hanging out, partying, drinking, it's popular nightlife, and then they just vanish. And Then, later, of course, turn up in this lake, and it's just happening one after another.
Serialously with Annie Elise
256: Super SCARY! Serial Killer in Austin, TX?! What is REALLY Going on at Lady Bird Lake?
However, then the footage from the last few moments of his walk, the footage that really could have given answers and shed a new light on where he went or what happened to him, that footage was just non-existent. There unfortunately were no cameras in that area of his walk, and so his family was really left to wonder what could have happened. It was the unknown. It unaccounted for minutes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And given what Genevieve had told them about the tension in their relationship with Jasmine, I mean, it seemed pretty fair to question him, right? partner the spouse they've broken up there was turmoil now seems relevant so they went to his home the next day on april 24th and did a welfare check
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
They knocked, they knocked, it was kind of like Groundhog's Day, they were just like knocking but nobody was answering, and that note that Jasmine's mom had left up on the door a few days earlier was still there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And not only that, but the window on the front door was now covered with something, and it looked like it was cellophane, you know that like clear plastic thing that you use to wrap gifts sometimes? And it was the only window in the house that was covered, and it made it absolutely impossible to see inside this house. So they kept on knocking, kept on ringing the doorbell, but nobody answered.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So they just waited. Eventually, one officer noticed that a car's trunk liner was lying over the air conditioner and it was drying out. It was wet and it obviously had been recently cleaned. They also noticed that the garden hose was unwound. So they figured somebody must have used that to rinse down the trunk liner.
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227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But then also remember, it immediately takes you back to when her mom first went to the house and she saw that those sneakers had been washed recently and they were soaking wet. Not a good sign, right? A lot of things that point to a possible cleanup. But the other thing that I think that's really important about this is that the house had not been abandoned.
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227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Somebody had to have been home putting all of this stuff outside and cleaning all of this stuff. It was just a matter of the police getting inside. However, they couldn't do that through a welfare check alone and through this locked door.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I'm not sure Robbie's exact age, but Jasmine was in her early 20s. She was around 23 years old. And she was absolutely beautiful, guys. She had this long, dark hair, dark eyes, full lips, you know, a perfect little button nose with a bunch of freckles on her face. I mean, just truly stunning. Now, being a new parent is, of course, really difficult, no matter what age you are, 100%.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
They couldn't even see through the front door's window, and the rest of the windows were all on the top floors, so it's not easy to see into those from the ground. Except these police officers decided that they were going to get very creative. They ended up calling the fire department, and they brought one of those ladder trucks, so they used that to then go peer into these top floor windows.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But when they did, they didn't see anything. However, almost as soon as that fire truck arrived, the lights downstairs turned on. And finally, Robert opened the front door and he let the police officers come inside. So now they were asking him, in addition to what took you so long, where is Jasmine?
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But it was even tougher for them once they started having some issues in their relationship in addition to being newborn parents. So Robbie began coming home later and later, leaving Jasmine all alone. Then he began coming home drunk, or maybe sometimes even high, and then that escalated, and he began becoming aggressive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It was especially weird that he said Jasmine was more like a roommate than a girlfriend. But in Robert's defense too, apparently there was a chance that they really weren't together at this point.
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227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It's hard for me to say because I've read conflicting things online, but it seems like there was some disagreement around the story that Jasmine had told Genevieve about how she and Robert had broken up and then decided to just be roommates but then got back together, things like that.
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227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It sounds like there's the possibility that they didn't actually get back together at all, that they stayed broken up as roommates, and maybe that Jasmine was just telling Genevieve these stories about getting back together because she was embarrassed, maybe she didn't want to be judged, that she was still living there, maybe she was hoping that she and Robert would reconcile, maybe there was some wishful thinking on her part.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It's unclear. But regardless, the police weren't trying to get to the bottom of the exact nature of Jasmine and Robert's relationship. It was just a welfare check, just a time to see if she was okay. And the officers didn't know, because there was no sign of her or Aliyah in the house at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But they were able to take a closer look at Robert, and they were also able to dig into some of his past, especially given how weird he acted that entire time. It turns out that when Robert and his ex divorced, she claimed that it was due to emotional abuse. She said that Robert neglected her, he gaslit her, he emotionally mistreated her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I'm not sure of the exact date of this incident, but one day Robbie came home and was aggressively asking Jasmine for money. Now, she refused because she didn't know what he was planning to use this money for, and she was, quite frankly, worried, but Robbie would not take no for an answer. He was adamant. He needed this money.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
He would call her crazy all the time, and then towards the end of the relationship, he was also apparently drinking quite a bit. She also reported that Robert had a personal gun and knife collection. And not only that, but that this collection was growing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So the amount of guns that he was buying, combined with his excessive drinking and his anger issues, I mean, it had her pretty worried for her safety and also for her son's safety, which I would say that's for good reason. The police also discovered that Robert's ex had reported him for animal abuse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Robert had taken the dog that they owned together, brought him to a park, and then tied him to a tree without any food or any water. Thankfully, somebody at the park found this dog and they brought him to the Humane Society to be taken care of. Robert was charged with animal abuse and he pled guilty to three of the charges.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Those charges were causing an animal to be in distress, failing to provide an animal with food and water, and also failing to provide an animal with shelter. Now, he didn't go to jail over this, but he did have to pay a fine of $5,000, and he was also banned from owning animals for 10 years, which I didn't even know that that was a thing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I mean, I get that, like, Michael Vick, all of that stuff, but, like, I didn't know that you could be charged for not giving an animal food and water. It makes sense now that I think about it, but I guess I've just never really heard any instances like that. But in any event, and I've never heard that you would be banned from owning animals, because how would you exactly track that? I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So during the divorce hearings, his ex also brought up some very bizarre internet searches that she found on his phone. One was about chaining a dog to a tree and leaving him there, but another search was about a mother and a child dying in a house fire.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So obviously that left her feeling very scared, because if Robert had searched the dog thing and then went through with it, what was to stop him from trying to go through with this next search and hurt her and her son by setting the house on fire or doing something similar?
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So now, given all of this new information and just how weird Robert had been acting, the police decided to return to Robert's home on April 25th. And this time, they arrested him in connection with Jasmine and Aliyah's disappearances. And then they brought him into the station for a formal interrogation. The human body really is amazing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
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Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
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Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So Jasmine, who was now worried about her safety and the safety of her young daughter, told him she would give him that money, but she needed to go upstairs, she needed to get her purse, and then she would bring it back down to him. But instead, she locked herself in the bathroom, and she called the police. Now somehow, Robbie found out what she was doing, and he completely lost his mind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Plus, it has been a game changer for my skin, my hair, my nails. I swear, my hair looks shinier and my nails haven't been this strong in forever. So it's also so easy to add to your day. I just mix it into my morning routine with my tea and it blends in perfectly. There's no clumps, no weird taste. It's just delicious and convenient.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
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Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
He said that on April 17th, they all went on a picnic near Bragg Creek, which is about 30 minutes from Robert's home. Then afterward, they went back to the house. Jasmine sat on the couch in the living room, was watching some TV while Robert apparently was getting ready for a date. Because again, remember, he said that he and Jasmine were just roommates at this point.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
In fact, according to Robert, he had been seeing a different woman for quite a while now. So he said before he left for his date, everything with Jasmine seemed fine. But then, she and Aliyah were gone when he got home later that evening. The investigators were really surprised, though, to hear that Robert was dating other women.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Again, they had heard from Jasmine's family that Robert and Jasmine were a couple, and a fairly serious one, at that. So they contacted the woman that Robert said he went on a date with that night, which we will just call her KJ. And she confirmed that she was with Robert that night. So the police asked her some follow-up questions and KJ said that she and Robert met online in February of 2019.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So we're talking about five months or so after Jasmine and Aliyah moved in with Robert. They went on some dates and he occasionally stayed over at KJ's house, so it wasn't like he was trying to hide the relationship. Except KJ told the police that she had never been to Robert's house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And when she would ask him why she couldn't come to his place, he always said that his room was messy and that he had a roommate. And he apparently told KJ that the only way that they could ever sleep over at his house was if they slept in his car in the garage. And he also described Jasmine as his tenant to KJ, not his girlfriend.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Now, to my mind, that's actually a point in favor of the idea that Jasmine and Robert were still together because he probably didn't want to get caught cheating. So, of course, that's the reason he refused to let KJ come over, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Now, I don't know if the officers were picking up on what I'm picking up when I first heard this, but I do know that even with this, they didn't think that they could prove that he had anything to do with Jasmine and Elias' disappearance. They were still suspicious, but they couldn't hold him for much longer. So Robert was released. However, his car and his cell phone were seized.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
They also got a search warrant for his townhouse and told him that he couldn't go home until they were done going through everything. So they conducted their search over the next couple of days. They also looked at his cell phone data.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And when they did, that's where they saw that on April 23, the day that Jasmine and Aliyah were reported missing, Robert deleted around 30 photos of the two of them. He also deleted a few photos of a gun around the same time. His phone's location data also showed that he was in the Bragg Creek area around the time that Jasmine and Aliyah went missing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Now remember, he said that's where they went to have a picnic, but that was prior to when Jasmine and her daughter went missing. So the police decided they needed to go to this creek area. They needed to check it out. So when they went and searched the area, they found a makeshift fire pit that looked as though it had been recently used.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
He kicked down the bathroom door, he grabbed the phone out of her hands, and was just completely irate. Thankfully though, he didn't attack Jasmine, and pretty soon after he got the door down, he left the house entirely. But when the police arrived, he was absolutely nowhere to be found.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And it wasn't just used to burn charcoal for hot dogs or s'mores or anything like that. In fact, when the police searched the fire pit, they found the seatbelt from a car seat, diapers, toddler shoes that were Aliyah size, parts of children's books, and also a Jungle Book DVD.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
They brought sent dogs to the area, and the dogs alerted in a way that told them that a fire accelerant had been used in that fire pit. And CCTV footage from a local gas station showed Robert filling up his car and then also filling up a gas can and later going through a car wash. On top of that, the search of his home was very strange to say the least.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
The police couldn't get through that front door because it had been barricaded with two long poles. The front window was still covered in that cellophane, and then there were multiple spots on the walls that looked like they had been sanded down and cleaned. They also discovered that the master bedroom had a pin code lock on the door, which, that's not a good sign.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
A lock on the bedroom door, sure, but a pin code lock? Something feels weird here. I don't think it's unfair at all to say that this was strange. It was beyond weird. They also found a plastic hammer that was filled with sand, which I guess it's the kind of hammer that is used to fix dents in cars. I'm not really sure.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But in addition to that, there were also multiple boxes with blue moving blankets. I mean, something just didn't feel right. Now, beforehand, the police had found footage of Robert going back and forth to the garage, so they decided that they needed to search there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And when they did, they spotted a gun safe, and it contained multiple guns, multiple boxes of ammos, I mean, you name it, and in the trash cans in the garage. They found a partially melted firearm part. They also found infant toys, Jasmine's prescription bottles, Jasmine's passport, which had been shredded. I mean, this was looking more like a dump site than a regular trash can.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And that wasn't even the weirdest thing that they found, not at all. There were pieces of bacon scattered all over the house, literally raw strips of bacon, just thrown all over the place. One piece was found draped over the dining room chair, one piece was found in the garage, another was in the room where the furnace was, and then an empty bacon package was just sitting there in the kitchen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And since Jasmine hadn't been harmed physically, they kind of told her that there wasn't really anything that they could do about what happened. Thankfully though, even though they weren't able to do anything in that moment, Jasmine was able to obtain an emergency protection order. However, the protection order ended up being revoked 13 days later.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But you know what wasn't in that house? After all the weird things, the bacon, the everything, there was no sign of Jasmine or Aliyah. Still, the police did feel good about announcing to the public that Robert was their main suspect.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
This was after Jasmine and Robbie said that they were able to come to an agreement, they resolved their situation, they got over their differences, they came to this mutual agreement, they no longer needed this order. A lot of the information surrounding this situation is still very vague, but we do know that Jasmine and Robbie ended up splitting up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And while the police were still searching Robert's home and all of his stuff, reporters tracked him down while he was just kind of out and about running errands or something. And he was not afraid to talk to them. Not at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
you're saying that is not you of course not of course not so why is it who says that they're dead that's crazy i don't know where they are he said that while the police had been searching his home and his car he had just been you know casually hanging out at bars which you can tell by the way that he was talking in my opinion too that he had been drinking
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
According to Robert, that had been his life for the past three days. Everybody thought he was some kind of kidnapper or murderer, and he had lost his job. His friends had all turned on him, he had no money, he had nothing to do all day but just drink each and every day. He also complained that the police had destroyed his house and made a huge mess all over the place.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
He says he hired a lawyer because, according to Robert, he was innocent, and he thought that he needed some help proving that. And that's when someone anonymously came forward to the police. This person was close with Robert, and they said that Robert was known to be a loose cannon and to just behave erratically.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And when they did, Jasmine received custody of Aliyah. So after this, it kind of seems like Robbie and Jasmine were able to maintain, you know, an amicable relationship, co-parenting, and trying to make things just pleasant and peaceful. And like I said, Aliyah was Jasmine's entire life, and so she was absolutely fine with being, you know, the sole caretaker, the protector.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And the investigators believed it because they already had all these weird interactions with him, right? So it was one more little detail and piece of information that made him look very suspicious. But still, there was not enough evidence and not enough information to press any sort of charges on him. So now the police decided to go forward with a new strategy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And on May 5th, two undercover officers approached Robert on the street near his home. When they did, they said, "'You're the dude from the news. You're like a fucking rock star. Oh my gosh, nice to meet you.'" And Robert replied with, "'Hardly. There's nothing good about my effing life right now, I'll tell you that much.'"
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Well, the officers just kept sort of praising him, giving him this ego boost. They said, you know, we think that you're innocent, but you should know one of your neighbors was sneaking around your house while the police were doing their search.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Which, to be clear, that wasn't true at all, but I guess they thought that he would trust them more if they told him some sort of, like, BS story that was trying to help him out or something. So according to these undercover officers, the neighbors had found a bag of evidence, had stolen it, and then had given it to the two of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Then they asked Robert if he wanted to go with them to get a beer, talk over their options, talk about destroying this evidence, which he agreed to. And a few times during this conversation, Robert asked them, hey, are you guys cops? Are you just trying to trick me? But they assured him that they weren't.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So they started telling Robert stories about how they were part of a crime group, like a gang. And naturally, this meant that they had a criminal background. They also went on and on about how terrible cops were, how awful they are, and they started giving Robert advice on how he could really make the police stop suspecting him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And then eventually they asked Robert if he wanted to go to their warehouse where they kept all of their guns. And it was kind of made out to be like this warehouse was like their secret hideout of sorts. But Robert fell for it. He agreed. And they all drove to that warehouse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
There, the undercover officers showed him this arsenal of guns that they had, still trying to gain his trust, still trying to really prove that they were these criminals. And eventually, after seeing that, Robert started opening up. He told them that when he and Jasmine had been dating, he had cheated on her, because according to him, that's what, you know, every single guy does. Every guy cheats.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Which, I don't think that that's true of every single guy, but I'll be honest, I can think of a lot of exceptions, but anyway. So he tells them, we started dating and I was cheating on her. And he claimed that Jasmine wasn't happy in their relationship because of this. She wanted to get married, but he didn't. So he told these officers, Women, man, they always want more, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Tell me when that ever stops with a chick. When does it ever stop? From what I understand, she pretty much even told her family. And then after complaining and talking about cheating and all of this stuff, he just flat out confessed. just confessed to these two men that he just met a few hours earlier.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Now, he didn't exactly say how he killed Jasmine or her daughter, but he did tell them that after killing the two of them, he used his phone to look at what remote areas were nearby. When he did, he settled on Bragg Creek, and then he drove there to scope everything out. However, he says he waited until the very next day to hide the bodies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
When he decided to hide them, he brought them to the woods near Bragg Creek. He hid them, and then he drenched them in gasoline. He didn't burn their bodies, but he did hope that the gasoline would throw off any cadaver dogs from finding them. He also said that he made a makeshift fire pit to burn all of Jasmine and Elias' personal belongings.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
He said he burned things like Elias' car seat, other personal items that belonged to them, all to make it look like Jasmine had really taken her and run away. Then he covered his backseat in mulch, and he also used the mulch to cover the bodies in the woods, and he told these officers, well, mulch is death, right? So it smells like death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Family had always been the most important thing to her. She had also always been very close with her mom, Kim, and her sister, Genevieve. Now, of the three of them, Jasmine was definitely the funny one. I don't know a whole lot about her childhood, but I do know that she love, love, loved pranking her family. And her favorite day of the year, of course, with that, was April Fool's Day.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Now from that, it almost sounds like he thought that the smell of the mulch would again throw off the cadaver dogs, kind of like how he had hoped that the gasoline would also throw them off. But one thing that was pretty consistent for Robert was he was very concerned about these cadaver dogs. That's why he also apparently had all that bacon all over his house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But his thinking wasn't just like, oh, it's this delicious, fatty, meaty treat. These dogs will love it. It will distract them. He actually put a lot of thought into this. Because according to Robert, pork smells similar to human flesh.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So he figured that the bacon wouldn't just throw the dogs off because it was food, he actually thought that it would somehow stop them from detecting Jasmine and Aliyah. And I mean, it sounded so thought out and so carefully planned after all, he went very far to try and cover his ass after these deaths.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So when these undercover officers asked if he had cleaned up his car afterward too, because of all this, all of the mulch, all of everything, Robert replied and said, oh yeah. He also said, it's funny, because they were telling me about my Mercedes, and they pretty much can hook up the computer in the car and know exactly where I've been, but my car, it's just too old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
If it was a 2018, then I would be in jail. So it was almost as though he was gloating. He was explaining all of this, kind of gloating how he was so much smarter than the police. And then after he explained all of it, Robert said that he was going to show the officers where he hid Jasmine and Aliyah's bodies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So they drove to the Bragg Creek area in the middle of the night, and Robert took them to the bodies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It wasn't too far from where that weird fire pit was, and both of the bodies were wrapped in those same blue moving blankets, and they were buried underneath the dirt, sticks, and mulch, which, it's so interesting to me that he was so wanting to brag and boast about what he had done, so much so not only that he just admitted to these strangers, essentially, what he had done,
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But let me show you my handiwork, which we know killers love to revel in the crime and they like often return to the scene of the crime or they keep trophies and things like that. But like to bring somebody else there who's literally a stranger, that's how proud he was, which is really unnerving. Obviously, all of this information was enough for the police to immediately arrest Robert.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
The Calgary Police Department also held a press conference, but they didn't immediately tell the public exactly who was arrested or that they had conducted this undercover investigation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Now, Jasmine was not only funny, she was also incredibly kind. She was the kind of person who would literally give you the shirt off of her back. Her mom also said that she was the type of person who would, quote, take her last two dollars and spend it on you. She was just really generous, really warm, really genuine and kind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Traits that, of course, translated really well into Jasmine being a great mother now. Because on the one hand, she was fun. She loved joking around. But on the other hand, she was so comforting. She was such a loving mother, something that every child needs. I mean, truly such a great balance. So in 2018, after breaking up with Robbie, Jasmine decided to put herself back out there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Eventually, the police department confirmed with DNA evidence that the bodies were Jasmine and her daughter. Jasmine had multiple blunt force head injuries and also a bullet wound on the left side of her head behind her ear. Aliyah also had multiple blunt force injuries to her head, one on each side. She also had one on the back. And she also had a spinal injury.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Both of their deaths were ruled as homicide. So that's why they felt good about going after him for murder charges, rather than something milder like manslaughter. And on May 7th, Robert was officially charged with two counts of second-degree murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
The prosecutors thought about trying to charge him with first-degree murder, but they didn't think that there was enough evidence to prove that Robert had premeditated these killings, so they wanted to just make sure that they would have a strong conviction. And his trial began in October of 2021. He actually pleaded guilty to Jasmine's murder, but he said he did not kill Aliyah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
His defense team argued that on April 17th, Robert picked up Aliyah from daycare and brought her home. Jasmine was gone, so he played with Aliyah. She watched that TV show, The Wiggles. They were all just hanging out. But at one point, she apparently wanted to go to the kitchen, which was upstairs. And as she was walking up the stairs, she fell backward and hit her head.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But he says she got up and she seemed fine, so they ate dinner together, they watched some more TV together, and then Robert put her to bed. Then he went outside and he smoked a cigarette and made himself a drink. Jasmine came home soon after, at around 7, and at 9 p.m. she went upstairs to check on Aliyah and she found that she wasn't breathing and she was unresponsive in her bed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And according to Robert, Jasmine became enraged. Hello, of course, she's a protective mother. So she started yelling at him. She started accusing him of killing Aliyah. But that made him angry. And he says he took that hammer and hit her on the head until she fell to the floor. Then he went and got a gun and he shot her to make sure that she was really dead.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Then he grabbed a blue moving blanket from downstairs and wrapped Jasmine's body up in that blanket. And then he used a towel to clean up all of the blood. He threw the towels away, made himself another drink, and then he fell asleep. Over the next couple of days, he buried their bodies and he burned as many things as possible.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
The autopsy had showed much more serious injuries, though, around Elia's head and spinal cord. It wasn't really in line with a fall on the stairs, and that wasn't all that came out in that report. The medical examiner also found injuries in her genital area, and it suggested that she had been being sexually harmed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And she ended up signing up for a few dating sites, see if she could meet somebody new. And Jasmine caught the eye of a lot of guys, which was not too surprising because, again, she was beyond stunning. But she wasn't all that interested in the guys that were reaching out to her because nobody's really catching her eye. She was particular.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So the prosecutors believed that when Jasmine got home on April 17th, she caught Robert in the act. She freaked out and Robert killed her to stop her from telling anybody what she had found him doing. Then he had no other choice, they think, but to kill Aliyah and make up this story about her falling down the stairs all to cover his tracks.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And I have to say that does go in line with what we have heard from Jasmine's family about Robert always doting on Aliyah, picking her up, cooking for her, doing all these things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Not to say that a good man and a good step-parent can't do that, but maybe he was showing a little bit too much interest in her, especially when the medical examiner did report that there were injuries in her private area consistent with that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So the lawyers thought that it was pretty notable that Robert never denied killing Aliyah either when he was talking to those undercover cops, although now he was making it seem like he didn't kill her on purpose. The idea is that generally people will be very quick to deny killing children because that crime is seen as even more horrific than killing an adult.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So they argued that if Aliyah truly did die in an accident, Robert would have made sure that everybody knew that. In court, the prosecutor said, You didn't once say, I didn't kill the kid, it was an accident. You didn't tell them the story you told this court. Everyone thinks that's one of the worst things you can do.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And you didn't once, not once, take the opportunity to tell these guys that it was all an accident. Now, Robert was the only witness for the defense, and he told that same story that he had been repeating. Aliyah fell down the stairs. She hit her head. She died in her sleep. Then Jasmine discovered her dead daughter. She freaked out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Robert says he didn't call for help because he couldn't find his phone, and that Jasmine just started blaming him for Aliyah's death, and that's when he killed her, which, hello, that is not a good excuse. Especially because Robert did, in fact, have his phone with him. The entire time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And the police knew what time he had killed Jasmine and Aliyah, and they also knew that he was texting his, you know, sidepiece KJ right before then. So this wasn't even a good lie. Robert waived his right to a jury trial, so the judge ended up finding him guilty of second-degree murder for Aliyah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
He said that Robert was not a credible witness, that he couldn't be trusted, and that he had no doubt that Robert had done this on purpose. Specifically, the judge said, "...her injuries were not accidental. He meant to cause Aliyah's death or meant to cause bodily harm to Aliyah, and that was likely what caused her death." So why would he not use his best efforts to find Aliyah help?
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Instead, he went downstairs, made himself a drink, and had a cigarette. Robert was given an automatic life sentence with a chance of parole in 22 years. Jasmine's family was satisfied with Robert's sentence, though, and her mom Kim said, 22 years without eligibility for parole is really good. Obviously, 200 years is not going to bring them back, but we're pleased.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I mean, she didn't want to let just any old kind of random into her life, especially now that she had a daughter. This person had to be worthy in her eyes. Well, eventually, Jasmine did find somebody who met her very high standards. His name was Robert Leeming. Now, when he and Jasmine met, Robert was 34 years old, maybe even a little older, and Jasmine, as a reminder, was still in her mid-20s.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
We feel that justice has been served. Justice for Jasmine and justice for Aliyah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Yeah. Yeah, that's a big relief. In 2022, Robert appealed his conviction. He still said he didn't kill Aliyah, and he said, The point of my argument was that the medical pathologist, the doctor who did the autopsy, could not rule out that there was an accidental fall down the stairs. For example, one that could have caused the injuries to the child's brain that ultimately caused her death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
there was a reasonable alternative that existed. During his trial, the medical examiner did testify it was possible that Aliyah could have just really landed badly on the stairs, and it was possible for her head and spinal injuries to all be from an accident.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But they ultimately ruled that Aliyah's death was the result of a homicide, because if she had fallen down the stairs, she would have also had injuries to her arms and her legs, which she didn't. So, on July 23, 2024, Robert lost his appeal, and his conviction was upheld.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
As for Jasmine and Eli's families, they have been working very hard to spread awareness about domestic disputes and ones that turn violent. They raised $25,000 and gave that money to the Calgary Women's Emergency Shelter.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
They also started a memorial scholarship in Jasmine's name through the charity Gems for Gems, a Calgary-based nonprofit that is committed to empowering women who survived domestic issues like these.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And I'll just say, it always touches me when families and loved ones channel their grief and their anger into helping victims, future victims, whether it's a foundation, an organization, a donation, whatever it is, education, self-defense classes, whatever. To be able to harness all of that, trying to help other people, I think is just incredibly powerful.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And I would imagine that that would also help you a little bit in the grieving process, knowing that they're not dying in vain and that their legacy will continue. So, that being said, thank you for listening to Jasmine and Elias' story. I hope that Robert does not get parole after 22 years.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I think he is the worst of the worst, and I guess they couldn't prove it, but I do wonder why he wasn't charged with any sort of sex crimes against her daughter. If the medical examiner did see the indications of that, but maybe there wasn't enough to prove that, but... I don't know. But to me, I don't know. I think that probably was a motivating factor or something involved in this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So I hope he's not released and I hope he gets the worst possible treatment ever. But that's just me. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me today. I appreciate it. I will be back on the mic with you first thing Thursday morning with headline highlights where we are going through everything that's happening in the true crime world.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So there definitely was an age gap there. I mean, nothing crazy, about 10 years or so, but... An age gap, nonetheless. Robert had been born in the United Kingdom, but he traveled a lot during his childhood because his father worked in the military.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I appreciate you guys sticking through and hearing today's case. I know it wasn't easy. and I will be talking with you guys again soon. Until then, be nice, don't kill people, and just be a good human. Alright, bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So as a result of that, because he was always bouncing from place to place and, you know, all over the place, he had a really difficult time making friends. And that was still an issue in his adult life now. However, he was able to come out of his shell online. He loved meeting new people in chat rooms where he didn't have to be so tightly wound, so...
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Today's case is a wild one, okay? This one has been literal like, I don't know, several, several months in the making. And it's a notorious case in Canada because this guy is being dubbed as the Canadian Chris Watts. There are a lot of twists and turns throughout this case, a lot of details.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
self-conscious almost and that's actually where he met his first wife she was from canada too and when she and robert met she was studying to be a teacher they ended up getting married in 2013 and robert moved to be with her in canada the two of them had a son together but unfortunately the relationship didn't last very long and they decided to call it quits in 2017 just a few years later and robert's now ex has full custody of their son with robert having supervised visitation
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So even though Robert and his Canadian wife were separated, he was able to stay in Canada. He wasn't a citizen by any mean, but he did have what's called permanent residency, and that's because he had a job there. So he stayed and he worked as a mechanic, an HGV mechanic to be specific, which that stands for heavy goods vehicle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
so after his marriage ended robert like jasmine found himself on you know various dating sites and he dated quite a few women before falling for jasmine their relationship started in september of 2018 and then just a month later jasmine and elia moved into robert's home now obviously a month is pretty quick to go from first date to living together especially when there's a child involved
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But other than that one big rush, that one big leap of faith, I guess you could call it, their relationship did seem pretty normal overall. And I think it's worth mentioning that the quick move-in date makes sense from a financial perspective because obviously we all know, especially this day and age or even the recent years,
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Living with a partner can definitely be cheaper when you're splitting the rent. It's not like you need an extra bedroom the way that you would with a roommate, so you're able to split the cost of what normally one person is trying to absorb on their own, not to mention you're having somebody who's around to help out with chores, the grocery shopping, and of course childcare and babysitting.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I mean, it just makes things tremendously more helpful. Now, it doesn't seem like Jasmine was working during this time. She was receiving child support from her ex and she was focusing on taking care of Aliyah full time. And Robert just absolutely loved Aliyah and loved taking care of her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So if Jasmine ever needed to get out of the house or run an errand or needed to do something, Robert was more than willing to watch Aliyah whenever she was gone. He wanted to help. He would cook, he would clean, he would play with her. He was just a great person for Jasmine to be with because he loved her daughter so much, almost as much as she loved her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So like I mentioned previously, Jasmine was pretty close with her family. She met up with her mom and sister pretty often for family dinners. And then once Robert was in the picture, he would join these family dinners as well. Jasmine's family thought that the relationship was really normal, was good, they liked him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
However, her sister Genevieve wasn't really happy with how quickly everything was moving. She had some reservations, some hesitation there. But she saw how well Robert was treating Jasmine and Aliyah, and that's really all that mattered. That's what mattered the absolute most. So one night, Robert, Jasmine, and Aliyah met up with Jasmine's family for dinner. It was April 14th, 2019.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
The dinner was pretty normal, but Genevieve thought that maybe Robert and Jasmine seemed a little bit distant from one another, more than usual. So at the end of the dinner, Jasmine and Genevieve made plans to go meet up for dinner again on April 19th, which was Good Friday. And you know how that goes. It's like you leave and you're like, when should we do this again? I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Let's look at the calendar. Let's set a date. It was that kind of thing. So then the 19th rolls around, but Jasmine never showed up for dinner with her sister. She tried texting and calling Jasmine over and over again, but Jasmine didn't answer. And that was very concerning for a lot of reasons, but mainly because Jasmine would never miss a dinner with her sister.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And she would also never just not reply to her text messages or her phone calls. Genevieve even tried messaging her on Facebook, but all of those messages were marked as undelivered. So it was so concerning that Genevieve went over to Jasmine and Robert's house around 5 p.m. that evening. And when she did, she noticed that the basement light was turned on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So she figured, okay, somebody has to be home, right? The basement light is on. So she knocked on the door, but there was no answer. So she waited. She knocked again. Still nothing. So she rang the doorbell multiple times, and it was like the house was empty. So that definitely didn't make Genevieve feel any better. But eventually, she didn't get an answer, so she left.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I mean, what else was she going to do? And a couple of days later, on April 21st, Jasmine's mom Kim went over to Jasmine and Robert's house. She wanted to check out what was going on. Like Genevieve, Kim hadn't been able to get in contact with Jasmine. And her visit was basically just a repeat of what had happened with Jasmine's sister.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I also want to just kind of put out a trigger warning ahead of time. It is definitely not an easy case to hear. But I'm going to break down everything for you from start to finish. So let's jump right in. In Calgary, Canada, on June 24, 2017, Jasmine Lovett and Robbie Sanderson welcomed their first child into the world, a daughter named Aliyah Lynn Sanderson.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
She was knocking, she was ringing the bell, all of the things, but there was no response. Now, one difference, though, this time around when her mom went there is that before she left, Kim noticed that there were two pairs of sneakers near the front door of the home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It looked like one pair had been recently cleaned, and they were soaking wet, so it looked as though somebody had done, like, a deep clean on them. But anyway, she noticed that and then left. And now it was pretty clear that nobody was going to get a hold of Jasmine the traditional way, through calls or text messages, or even, you know, now in-person visits.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So later that day, Kim taped a note to the front door of the home. It's not clear what that note exactly said, but she put the note on the door, hoping that that would be a way to get in touch with Jasmine, or at the very least, she could track it and see if anybody had read it and pulled it off the door.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So now four days have gone by, and on April 23rd, Jasmine was supposed to meet her mom and sister for another dinner. Now, even though they hadn't been able to get into contact with her, they were still expecting her, or at least hoping that she would show up and, you know, explain what had happened, that this was all just a huge misunderstanding.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
But she didn't turn up at any point during the evening. So they knew that they had to do something, because this was so unlike Jasmine. They were beyond worried at this point. So Genevieve went to the police station to file a missing persons report. And she was really open with the officers because why wouldn't she? I mean, she had nothing to hide.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
She wanted them to have all of the information that they could possibly ever need to find her sister. So she let them search her phone, ask her questions, do anything. Initially, the detectives asked her if Jasmine could have just left on her own, but she assured them she would never, ever do something like that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
She cared about her family way too much to just disappear without a trace, and especially to not answer calls or texts or anything. So they also asked Genevieve if Jasmine's ex, Robbie, could have had something to do with her disappearance. I'm not quite sure how they came to that conclusion or what evidence they were going off of, but I do know that they did decide to rule him out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So Genevieve told the officers that things had been a little bit weird between Jasmine and her current partner, Robert. She had mentioned how she appreciated how loving Robert was toward Jasmine, her daughter, but that their relationship had gotten a little bit weird and kind of seemed a little bit strained.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
And I mentioned before how Genevieve thought that it kind of seemed off at the last family dinner that they all had where the tension was there or the vibes just weren't quite right. There was almost like a little bit of distance between them. But as it turned out, that wasn't all that was going on. And Genevieve knew a lot more about things that had gone down in the past few months, a lot more.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
See, in December of 2018, Jasmine had texted her sister and told her that she and Robert were not in a good place. They had actually broken up, but she said they had made the decision that they were going to continue to live together as roommates. Which, weird, but okay.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
I get that it's not easy to find a place and move out with no warning, especially when there's a toddler involved, but I can't imagine that that would be comfortable. But then, a few weeks later, Jasmine told Genevieve they got back together. They worked out their issues. Jasmine also told Genevieve that she had gotten pregnant. And not only that, but she terminated the pregnancy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It's not entirely clear to me where that part fits into the timeline, if it was part of the reason they broke up or maybe got back together or a separate issue entirely, but obviously it was information that was worth sharing with the police now. Maybe it would lead them somewhere. So a couple of months after that conversation, Jasmine told her sister that she was really stressed about money.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Robbie had given up all of his rights as far as Aliyah was concerned, and that meant he didn't have to pay child support anymore. And it now meant, instead, that Jasmine needed to find a job, and she needed to start supporting both of them. Which has actually kind of worked out well, because, in fact, she told her sister that she was sick of being home all the time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Aliyah was born early in the morning, and she was a very, very tiny baby, but she quickly became her parents' entire world. I mean, that's how it always happens, right? You have this baby, and your whole world just shifts, and nothing else matters but this little baby. Now Jasmine and Robbie, they weren't married at the time, and they were both also pretty young when Aliyah was born.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
She was ready to be around other adults, be productive, and get into working society and, like, talk to other adults, things like that. She even felt jealous whenever Robert got to leave the house every day to go to work. She just unfortunately at this point hadn't managed to find a job yet, so it was stressing her out. So she wanted the job, but she couldn't find one yet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So again, there was very little reason to think that Jasmine would have just taken off when all of the signs prior to that day were looking like she was actually trying to settle down more, get a job, put Ruth's down, things like that. Thankfully, the detectives took Genevieve at her word, and this wasn't some sort of like possible runaway kind of case, nothing like that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
They started searching for Jasmine right away, and in no time at all, they had worked out a timeline of her disappearance. So like I mentioned before, Jasmine and Aliyah were at their family dinner on April 14th. Then they appeared on CCTV footage on April 15th at a local grocery store. Everything on the tape looked normal. Aliyah was in her stroller.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
Jasmine paid for her groceries at self-checkout. Then they left. Then on April 16th, Robert dropped Aliyah off at daycare. This was at 7.12 a.m. Then he went to go pick her up at 4.46 p.m. Now the problem with that was Robert wasn't officially listed on the pickup list for her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
So he had to call Jasmine so that she could give the okay to the daycare employees and they could release Aliyah to go home with Robert. But then after that, Aliyah and Jasmine were never seen or heard from again. However, Jasmine's credit card was used on April 18th to order food delivery.
Serialously with Annie Elise
227: WARNING: Canadian Version of Chris Watts | The Case of Robert Leeming
It wasn't clear whether Jasmine was the one who actually ordered the food or maybe if somebody else got their hands on her card and they're the ones who ordered food. But either way, the police were confident now that Robert was the last person who had spent any time with either of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Their sheets, like their bamboo sheets, are so soft. I have them in my room, I have them in our guest room, and I love them. I'm also already eyeing a few more pieces to just like refresh my wardrobe this year. So upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag. Go to quince.com slash AE for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash AE to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash AE.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
My favorite word lately, I don't know if I would say favorite word, but like mostly used word has been diabolical because I feel like so many of the cases that I've talked about have literally been the true definition of diabolical. Today's case, we need a new word. It is like unhinged, barbaric. brutal, diabolical, psychotic. Like I need a new word. So I don't own a thesaurus.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So the police are inside searching the house and one of the walls in Jerry's home was actually a false wall. That's right, it looked like just a regular wall, but it was actually made specifically to hide something behind it. Now that, in and of itself, is definitely suspicious, right? It wasn't like an actual crafted panic room. It was a faulty wall, like there was something hidden.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
There's no reason that you would literally need to build a secret hiding place in your own house if you weren't, you know, well, hiding something, right? So the police pulled the wall back. And when they did, they found a mattress behind it. And this mattress, it was turned upright. Like, it was also almost like acting like a door. Like, it was also hiding something.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So they, of course, knew they needed to move this mattress. So they tipped over the mattress, and when they did, they found a sealed closet. It was almost like Russian dolls, you know, the kind where it's like you open it and it goes to a smaller doll, then another one and another one, almost like every layer added to another layer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Then finally, behind the false wall, the mattress, inside the sealed closet, covered in clothing and trash, they found a giant wooden box. A wooden box that was about the size of, say, a
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
person now reports describe this box as everything from a military style locker container to just a plain old big box so i have no idea what a locker container is or what it looks like i know the pelican cases but that's about it so i have no idea what makes it military style or military grade i'm thinking maybe like a big trunk that goes at the foot of a bed or something like that but we do know for sure that it was wooden and that it was homemade so basically it was a big wooden chest
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And sure enough, inside that box, when they opened it, the police found John's decomposing body.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now this gets even creepier because as they went further into the house, the police found several of these homemade wooden cadaver style type boxes. They were all parked in the garage. So what was Jerry up to? What kind of person just keeps what are essentially a bunch of homemade coffins on hand, right? So either way, the police were definitely kind of like irked a little bit.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
They were feeling a little suspicious. So as soon as Jerry recovered from her suicide attempt, they arrested her. Now, reports vary on this part because some say a man that she was living with, either her husband or boyfriend, was inside the house and that he was arrested too. But some different reports say that he wasn't there at the time of the search, so it's a little bit unclear.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
But either way, he was eventually brought into the station. And during the questioning, this man said that he helped build the closet and the false wall. I've also read that he even helped build those homemade wooden coffins, all of those wooden boxes. However, with all of that, and even with that admission, he said he had absolutely no idea what Jerry was going to use these wooden boxes for.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I guess I own one on the phone. You know what? Let's do that really quick. Let's do this like group activity together. Hold on. Siri, what's another word for diabolical?
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now, obviously, this was a very unusual situation. But me, personally, I don't know. If somebody asked me to help build this, like, secret compartment in the walls of our house and then had me build these coffin-sized wooden boxes... I'd probably start getting a little bit suspicious if my husband was like, hey, babe, can you help me make this faulty wall and stack a mattress here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And hey, can you make the wooden box for me that's six feet by two feet? Like, I'm not going to do anything with it. I'd be like, huh? Come again? What do you mean? I mean, that's just me. But like... the red flags would for sure be going up. Now, I do know that after all of this, Jerry was being held without bond because the police thought that she was a flight risk.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And the reason why they thought that was because for decades before her son was even found dead inside her house, Jerry had been racking up a long rap sheet, the one that I mentioned earlier. And I hinted at this before, but this criminal history was the main thing that helped the police get the warrant to search her house in the first place.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So now I want to go over everything with you because there's a lot. We are not even at the peak of this like psychotic, unhinged story and case. So buckle up because it is a crazy ride.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now, in order to understand who Jerry was, we're going to go back to the 90s, you know, the days of dial-up, the days of AOL, you know, the skinny little tiny, tiny micro eyebrows and power suits, all of these things. And we're going way, way back. So Jerry's first husband passed away in 1991 when her son, John, was just nine years old. Officially, the death was ruled a suicide.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Jerry told the police that he had shot at her and then he shot himself. But when he died, Jerry collected more than $250,000 in life insurance, which is a lot of money today because think about it, that was back in the 90s. So it was worth even more back then before all the inflation that we've had in the past 33 years.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So let's just say Jerry walked away from her husband's death with a nice chunk of change. And a lot of people who knew her thought that this was no accident, not at all. There was nothing physical to connect her to it, I mean, no hard evidence suggesting that her husband's death was anything other than what she said it was, a suicide. But the people who knew Jerry, like, really knew her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
said that they thought that she might have had something to do with it, especially since she was there at the time of the shooting. I mean, the details, they just felt off. There were also rumors that Jerry might have actually been the one to have killed her husband, or at least played a role in his death. But again, these were just rumors. There was nothing concrete. There was no proof.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Either way, I can only imagine how hard this was on Jerry's son, John. It's hard enough to lose a father that young, and even if the official story was right and it was a suicide, that's a lot for a nine-year-old to deal with and process. So you add in all of these rumors that his mom might have actually been the one who did this and who was responsible and that she committed a murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I can't even imagine how it would feel to grow up with people saying that about your family and, more than that, about your one and only living parent. Now, John had at least two half-siblings, but other than that, his childhood is a little bit of a mystery.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
satanic and mephistophelian okay you have to tell me where you are go to privacy settings we're definitely not doing that messed up a sentiment what'd she say um okay so i kind of like say no i don't like satanic um whatever we're gonna just go with diabolical because the case that we're talking about today it like has scamming going on the run drugs
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
My best guess is that he had a fairly normal life, I mean, other than the weirdness around his dad's death, but his childhood was the sort that didn't make a lot of headlines. And maybe it's overall a good thing that there aren't a whole lot of publicly known details available and information about it, kind of like a no news is good news situation, I don't know, that's just my thought.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now, the reason he probably did have a relatively quiet and normal childhood was probably because Jerry wasn't really a part of his life. Around 1986, when John was just four years old, she had told John's father, basically, that he was going to be a single parent going forward. And then she basically just like peaced out, just left, and was barely in touch with John at all from that time on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Which, yes, sounds very sad, but it was probably, in hindsight, a good thing. Because instead of parenting, Jerry was using drugs, she was getting into legal trouble, she was using a lot of different aliases to stay away from the police, and she was also making money working as a part-time phone sex line operator.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now, you know, back in the days before the internet, it wasn't so easy to find adult videos or graphic content or anything like that. So instead, people would call these phone numbers, they would pay these really expensive fees, and in turn, they would get to talk dirty with women who had these really sexy voices.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And Jerry owned one of those services, meaning she was getting a cut of every single call that everybody made.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And it might all seem ridiculous now, but there was a lot of money in this industry. I mean, they say that sex sells for a reason, right? And Jerry was making enough cash that eventually in 1992, she could quit doing the sex line work entirely and move to Florida. And specifically, she went to the beach town of Boca Raton. Boca is a very quiet, very well manicured, very wealthy town.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I mean, at least it usually is. But at around 1 p.m. on July 13, 1993, the Boca Raton police got a phone call about an angry woman on the side of the road. When the police showed up to the scene, they found Jerry, who was going by the name Jerry Gaither at the time. And she was walking along the highway, just carrying a .38 caliber semi-automatic handgun.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
She was rambling, she was pacing, she seemed pretty volatile. And the cops obviously didn't want to approach her. I mean, she had a weapon, and she definitely didn't seem like she was in the right mental state. So, a standoff began. Then, it lasted for almost two and a half hours, with Jerry kind of just like waving this gun around, threatening to take her own life, acting erratically.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Then finally, the police approached her, and one of the officers managed to pin her to the ground, and once she was down on the ground and not a threat, Jerry handed over to the cops a handwritten note. Now this note read, I hope I don't see her wherever I go. Perhaps nowhere. Maybe heaven.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
my boyfriend allan levy did the actual shooting in bocca told me it was my fault for having a gun around at the time when he was mad at her for selling me pills he told me how to dispose however it took me two or three days to get the nerve to do it sickening tell him not my son christina racy is the girl And then the note was signed, Love, Jerry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now, if you hear all of that and think, okay, I have no idea what Jerry was talking about. What was she going on and on about? You are not alone. Because the police basically read this note and they kind of went like, what the fuck? Like, what is this?
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
people being imprisoned, bodies being hidden in walls of homes. I mean, it is psychotic and unhinged. It really is. So I'm going to shut up now and we are going to jump right in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And it was going to take a lot more research to actually figure out who those people were, what Jerry was trying to say, and what this note alluded to. But because of everything else going on, they arrested Jerry on the charge of carrying a concealed weapon, which, honestly, she wasn't even concealing anything. She had that gun right out there in the open, but whatever.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I mean, I guess they had to hold her on something while they tried to figure out what was going on. And that charge was as good as any other. I mean, at least it would hold her until they figured out what this note meant and what that other possible shooting was. And when the police were investigating...
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
One particular line in that note was super important, the one where Jerry said, Christina Racy is the girl. See, the name Christina Racy, it was familiar to the police officers. Christina had been reported missing just one day earlier, on Monday, July 12th. She usually talked to her mom on the phone every single day, but her mom hadn't heard from her for a while.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And because of that, the mother was worried enough that she reached out to the police. So the police knew Christina was missing, and now they had this letter from Jerry where she talked about Christina by name, also saying that there was a shooting and that she had to, quote, you know, dispose of something. So it wasn't hard to put two and two together.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
It looked like Jerry and this boyfriend that she had mentioned, Alan, might have killed Christina and disposed of her body. Except they didn't do a very good job at it, because Christina was found the very same day that the police arrested Jerry. Her body had been dumped on the side of the road, and it was pretty badly decomposed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I mean, decomposed enough that the police had to identify her using her fingerprints. But she had been shot to death. which again, pretty closely matched what that weird note that she passed to the officer said. Jerry told the police that she had left Christina's body on the side of the road several days after she had been killed, but she blamed her boyfriend, Cella LaVie, for killing Christina.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
She claimed that Christina was her drug dealer, and that she and her boyfriend were buying painkillers from Christina. According to Jerry, her boyfriend had gotten upset when Christina charged them more than what she usually did. In fact, he was so upset, and upset enough, that he shot her, according to Jerry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Then, she said that he left the body in their garage, and he forced Jerry to dispose of it using a big rental truck. Then, he threatened to kill her son John if she didn't cooperate. So a few hours after Jerry gave this statement, the police found her boyfriend and they charged him with murder, just on the strength of, you know, what Jerry had said alone. It seemed like it was adding up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And seriously, the only evidence that they even really had against him was Jerry's testimony. And clearly, you know, if you follow true crime, you can't nail someone with a murder charge based on the accusations coming from somebody who's clearly been acting erratic and seems to maybe have some mental stability issues.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And because of that, it only took them two weeks of investigation before they ended up dropping all the charges against him. It turns out this poor guy had just gotten back from vacation when the news of Christina's death broke out. He found out about it when the rest of the world did. And that rental truck? He had just rented it to move a piano.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So Jerry was the one who had killed this woman herself, and her boyfriend had no clue that she was pointing the finger at him the entire time, until the police came and started asking him questions. Now, luckily for him, he had that rock-solid alibi. Jerry, though? Not so much. She couldn't explain where she was at the time of Christina's murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
She had already admitted to helping dispose of the body, and she had also made those false accusations against her boyfriend, so it was not looking good for her at all. And if she was found guilty of killing Christina, she could get the death penalty. So before her trial got going, Jerry hired a private investigator named Robert Hamilton so that he could help her get off with a lighter sentence.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Except instead of keeping it professional, you know, client investigator and all of that jazz, Jerry and Robert started having an affair, which meant that Robert, of course, couldn't be fair or unbiased when he was investigating her case, and it was bad enough that Jerry's lawyer ended up firing Robert.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Well, in turn, Robert must have wanted to retaliate or do something because Robert turned around and testified against Jerry during her bond hearing. And you might be thinking, okay, maybe he was just pissed about losing his job, but actually, he had a very good reason to side with the prosecution.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
He took the stand and he said that while they were sleeping together, Jerry had looked him right in the eye and asked, don't you know you're sleeping with a murderess? Okay, I feel like I just need to like talk science with you for a moment, guys, because the human body is truly amazing. It can repair and it can grow in ways that still push the limits of science.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
But as we get older, our body's natural healing and building processes slow down. Now, the good news, there's something that you can do about it. And that is where Ancient Nutrition's Multi-Collagen Advanced Lean Supplement comes in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
It is packed with 10 types of collagen from 10 real food-based sources, and it is powered by clinically studied ingredients that promote healthy weight management while also helping to build lean muscle. And it's not just about looking good. Collagen can also help support your joints, improve the look and growth of your skin, your hair, your nails, the works.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So personally, I've been adding Ancient Nutrition's Multi-Collagen Advanced Lean to my morning routine when I have my tea. And I love how easy it is to just work into my daily routine. It dissolves perfectly. I know that I'm giving my body something that it really needs. And right now, Ancient Nutrition is offering 25% off your first order when you go to ancientnutrition.com.ae.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
That's ancientnutrition.com.ae for 25% off your first order. ancientnutrition.com slash AE. It's a new year, so we all have those habits that we are trying to break, right? I mean, whether it's doom scrolling too much, snacking late at night, reaching for things that we know, you know, might not be the best for us. And that is why I am so excited to share Fume with you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Fume is an award-winning flavored air device, and it is all about helping you make better choices while still having something to reach for. Now, let me be clear. Fume isn't a vape. There's no vapor, there's no nicotine, and no batteries to charge.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Instead, it uses a passive diffusion system to draw flavorful air into your mouth with delicious flavors like crisp mint, spearmint, and their new peach blush. Plus, it's designed with high quality materials and even has a very, very satisfying like fidget feature that can help calm stress. And Fume has already helped over 400,000 people take steps toward better habits. And now it's your turn.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So to kick off the new year, Fume's offering double the core flavors. Buy one and they'll send you two. And because you're listening, you can stack that with my code CEREAL to get a free gift with your journey pack. So head to tryfume.com, that's T-R-Y-F-U-M.com, use code CEREAL, or scan the QR code on the screen if you're watching to claim this limited time offer today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
That's tryfume.com code serial. So she's having pillow talk and sex with her private investigator, Robert, and like looks at him and very proudly says like, don't you know you're having sex with a murderess? Like as though that's like some sexy small talk, but I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I mean, imagine laying in bed with someone that you really like and they just stare you down and announce that they've killed somebody. That is so chilling. Up until that point, Robert had been totally convinced of her innocence, too. I mean, you wouldn't have an affair with somebody you thought was a killer, right? Let alone join their defense team.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
But then that comment, it totally creeped him out, and he wanted to get as far away from this whole thing as he possibly could. Apparently, Jerry had also been showering Robert with expensive gifts. I mean, we're talking bougie champagne, a 1984 Jaguar car, all of these like extravagant gifts, all to keep him from talking.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
But I guess he wasn't swayed by the nice booze and the shiny set of wheels because he spilled all the beans in court. He even told the judge that Jerry was too dangerous to be released on bail. So I don't know what the moral of that little dilemma and story is. It's probably never have an affair with your private investigator, or maybe it's don't kill someone, or probably both. I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
But with all of this evidence against her, not to mention Robert's testimony, Jerry was charged with first-degree murder, and her bail was set at $100,000, which, yes, that is a lot of money, but not if you only have to post 10% of it. And apparently, Jerry managed to find some people who would pay the bond, so she got to get out and go free.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
She was supposed to appear in court again in November of 1994, but she didn't show. She just skipped town altogether. And by her skipping town, this kicked off a manhunt that lasted nearly two years. It had three bondsmen, six bounty hunters, and every law enforcement agency imaginable. They were pulling out all the stops to find Jerry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
As it turned out, Jerry was actually really good at avoiding attention and not getting caught. While she was on the run, she had at least five different aliases, and she knew how to cover her tracks. She actually went on the run right after her bond was posted. I mean, right away. She immediately hightailed it out of Florida.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
She went 750 miles north of Boca, right to North Carolina, where her boyfriend at the time, Billy Canada, lived. And yes, this was a separate boyfriend from the one that she had accused of murder. Which, get used to it, because this woman had a lot of boyfriends, guys.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So before her scheduled trial date, Jerry rented a car in Billy's name and she drove back to Boca, basically kind of telling her boyfriend like, hey, thanks for helping me go on the run. I'm leaving now. I'm out, like taking your car. I mean, seriously, she just ditched him. And she got back home and immediately struck up a relationship with somebody new, according to some of the reports.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Now, this person was a 78-year-old man who she was definitely living with as a roommate, but according to some speculation, she was also dating him. His name was Samuel David. And I don't want to speculate on the nature of anyone else's, you know, romantic relationships, but let's just say there's evidence that Jerry was, at the very least, not the best girlfriend.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
and, at the worst, a total complete con artist. That is, besides the fact that she was apparently dating two or three guys all at once. She had a history of seeing guys for just as long as they were willing to give her money or gifts or favors. Then, as soon as the cash dried up or the favors ran dry, she was out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So at about 5.45 p.m. on December 22, 2023, police officers in Gulfport, Mississippi, received a call about a possible missing person. And as you can probably guess, Gulfport is right along the Gulf Coast, and it's a town of about 73,000 people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Like, for example, not only Samuel now giving her money and free stuff, but she also never even returned that rental car that she had gotten in Billy's name, and he had to end up reporting it as stolen. So she was only a few days into this manhunt, and already Jerry was just, like, leaving behind this trail of destruction. Her M.O.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
seemed to be using and then losing anyone who came into contact with her, anyone who stumbled on her path. So Jerry's next court date rolled around, and sure enough, she was nowhere to be found. The next day, a report came in that she had been seen in the Fort Lauderdale area with a friend.
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And this was especially concerning because that friend had actually written Jerry a letter a while back, and it talked about them taking a trip to Europe. So of course, the investigators were now asking themselves if this was all part of the plan, if she was planning on fleeing to Europe with this friend. But the fact of the matter was, Jerry hadn't gone anywhere.
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She was still in Boca, still living with Samuel in his house. It's not clear whether or not Samuel knew that she was this wanted criminal, but I gotta say, I mean, he was 78 years old, so he may have just been a little, like, tuned out and kind of happy to have this roommate slash possible much younger girlfriend for company. I don't know. But whatever their relationship was...
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Not long after he and Jerry got together, Samuel woke up to find $12,000 in cash, a nice fistful of nice jewelry, and a bunch of guns missing. And you know what else was missing? Jerry. She was nowhere to be seen. Then, the previous boyfriend, Billy, got a letter from Jerry.
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It was postmarked for November 9th, and it had been sent from a small town in Florida, and it read, "...I realistically fully expect to be brought back or die." Because of it all, I've turned into a person I do not like. I'm using men, just like they've always used me. Now, this was not the only letter that Jerry had ever sent Billy, although it might have been the strangest one.
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But Billy actually had a whole big box full of notes that he had saved from her, which I don't know if that's because he truly just cared about her so much, and he was like the romantic type, or if maybe he saved them because he wanted to have them forever. protection of some sort? I don't really know.
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But now, whatever the reason was, he wasn't thinking in terms of, you know, keeping these sweet, loving letters from his girlfriend. But instead, he thought that there might be a clue in there. Some hint that Jerry might have dropped about where she was headed next.
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So he got out that box, he opened up the envelopes that were inside, and he discovered that every single letter that he had saved from her had been replaced with a blank piece of paper. And I mean, think on that for a second.
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Before Jerry rented a car in Billy's name and then just took off, she actually spent time going through this box of Billy's, going through these letters she had written him, pulling out every single one, and then putting a blank one back in the same place. Which kind of seems crazy to me because why would somebody do that instead of just destroying the entire box and emptying it?
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It's best known for being close to some of the most beautiful beaches, and it also has a couple of casinos, a handful of motels, but the residential areas are pretty much like low-key. But basically, Gulfport is like a nice little town. It's definitely not a place where you would expect to hear about a violent crime. I mean, nothing crazy really ever happens there. Usually.
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Just like light them all on fire, right? I mean, it just feels like a very extreme length to go to. Really insane to me.
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So from there, the police tried to track her by her credit card charges, and I mean, she was still using the card that was in her name, so she wasn't exactly covering her tracks very well, and it turned out that she was hopping from one swanky upscale hotel to another upscale swanky hotel. And around November 18th, she was seen at a very upscale, expensive place in Palm Beach.
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And when she was there, she was running up quite the tab. She was also cashing checks the entire time. So all to say, she might have been a fugitive on the run, but she definitely was not hurting for money. And you might be thinking, well, it sounds like Jerry wasn't doing much to cover her tracks. She doesn't really seem very nervous. I mean, she was pretty openly traveling around.
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She was using her real name. She was using her credit card, all of those things. Well, for a few months after all of this, she finally did lay low, and the police didn't get any tips. In fact, it took until February 6, 1995, for them to get a tip. And what a tip it was. Jerry was shopping at a department store, and she had left her driver's license there.
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But luckily for Jerry, for some reason, it doesn't look like the cops ever went to that department store to retrieve her license. They didn't even really go there to investigate it further. It seems to me like this could have been, you know, a great opportunity if they had hidden out at the store, waited for Jerry to come back to get her ID. They could have gotten her.
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They could have arrested her. But for whatever reason, when Jerry came back to the store a month later, she got her license back without any trouble whatsoever. Then, a couple of days after that, Jerry ended up being kicked out of a hotel in Fort Lauderdale for drug use. But again, somehow, and I don't know how it's possible, but the cops didn't come after her.
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I mean, there were reports just rolling in, rolling in. People were seeing this woman all over Florida. But the tips were always just somehow too little too late. And a year went by of Jerry living as this free woman and always just staying a step ahead of the police. not because she was some kind of criminal mastermind, but because they just kept dropping the ball.
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They weren't following up on reports or just showing up a little bit too late to catch her. Now, of course, this was big news, and it seemed like everyone was getting in on the hunt for Jerry. I mean, reporters were tracking her every move, bounty hunters got involved, and her family even gave statements to the press.
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Which, speaking of, let's just say Jerry's own relatives weren't exactly standing up for her. They told reporters that she was, quote, slick and shrewd and shady. And her brother, John King, told a local paper that his sister was great at charming people all to get her way. He said, quote, she likes to make money and she knows how to. But she couldn't stay on the run forever.
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Even if, by the time the police finally tracked her down, things got to be even weirder and more violent. It took until June of 1995, but finally, some police in central Florida spotted a Ford Escort rental car that had fake license plates on it.
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They pulled it over, and when they asked the driver for their ID, she didn't have a driver's license, just a receipt for one that she didn't have with her. She also had a birth certificate with her, which was weird, but it was under the name Carol Ann Navarro. So the officers had this Carol person step out of the car.
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Except on that day, which was a Friday, the police were looking for that missing person and they were doing a wellness check at a modest 1,000 square foot home just five miles from the airport. It was on a quiet street near some big trees. It had a chain link fence around it. There were a couple of cars in the driveway and a little short walkway up to the door.
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And when they searched it, they saw a 68-page mail order catalog for fake IDs, which to me is almost funny. I mean, is there anything more incriminating to keep in your car than a literal catalog for fake IDs? Seems super suspicious, right? And sure enough, it turns out that this Carol Ann Navarro person was in fact Jerry. Finally, she had been caught. Not that she was going to go away quietly.
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Not at all. Jerry told the police that she was feeling sick, so because of that, they took her to the nearest hospital, where there, she downed a bottle of cleaning supplies in an attempt to take her own life, just like she eventually would swallow a bunch of pills during that search of her house in 2023.
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Of course, though, as we know, she survived, and she finally had to go to trial and face her charges. She pled guilty to the second-degree murder of Christina Racey. And finally, the story also came out about why she did it, and how.
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Jerry had shot Christina to death at her house in Boca, which she shared with her boyfriend, you'll remember, the guy that she initially tried to frame for this murder. And at first, Jerry said that her boyfriend killed Christina because she was their regular drug dealer and she had overcharged them for some pills that they wanted to buy. And that part was half true.
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We know that the boyfriend didn't shoot Christina. Jerry did. But as near as I can tell, after looking at all the evidence, she was being honest about the motive. She apparently really did kill Christina because she thought that she was being overcharged for the painkillers that she wanted to buy.
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And not that there's ever a good reason to commit murder, I mean, certainly not, but it's shocking to me that the crime was so brutal given how impersonal the reason was. Jerry could have just found somebody else to sell her drugs for cheaper. Why she had to kill her, I don't know. But instead, she shot Christina.
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Then, she stuffed the body into the back of a rental truck and drove around with it in the trunk for a few days, finally dumping the body on the side of the road. I mean, literally, for several days, Christina was decomposing in Jerry's trunk while Jerry was trying to figure out what to do with her remains.
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And I'll never understand that because there have been several cases we've covered where people have just like driven around with the dead body in their car for days, some even as disgusting as it is, months on end. And while I get maybe you're panicking and you're trying to figure out how to cover it up, what if you get pulled over? What about the odor?
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What about the rotting corpse in your car that you're literally just like living with day to day? I will never understand it. So Jerry was eventually sentenced to 17 years in prison. But then two pretty surprising things happened, which took this story in a total different direction.
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It is still technically the start of a new year, and that also means that it is the perfect time to get organized, to set goals, and to prioritize what really matters, especially for me when it comes to my financial wellbeing. And thanks to Rocket Money, my goals feel more achievable than ever. I've talked to you guys about Rocket Money before.
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I got my husband hooked on it as well because Rocket Money helps me see all of my subscriptions in one place. It makes it so easy for me to cancel the ones that I forgot I was even paying for. It helps me lower my bills. It negotiates the new bills for you with your cable company, your phone provider, all of the people that you never want to just call and wait on hold forever and argue with.
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And it was a little run down for sure, I mean, but from the outside, it kind of just looked like a typical single family home. And the police were there to look for John Gaither, a 42-year-old man who hadn't been seen or heard from in about two weeks. Now, standing at 6'1", John was a pretty good-looking guy.
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And Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and build not just your unwanted subscriptions, but they monitor your spending. They also, like I said, help you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. You can sign up for something, forget about it after the trial ends if you're like me, and then suddenly you're being charged month after month.
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I just realized I had a subscription to Fox from literally like six months ago when I wanted to watch a Nancy Grace thing. and then I completely forgot to cancel it. So trust me, I was super shocked to find out just how many subscriptions I wasn't even using.
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Rocket Money not only tracks my spending, but their team can even negotiate bills on my behalf, like I mentioned, so it really saves me money without the hassle. Rocket Money has over 5 million users, and it has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when you're using all of the app's premium features.
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So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash AE today. That's rocketmoney.com slash AE. rocketmoney.com slash AE.
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So the first of the two surprising things that happened in Jerry's story at this point was that she, one, was released in 2003 after serving only seven and a half years of her 17-year sentence, which it's not clear why she got out so early. I mean, letting a criminal out of prison before her sentence was up, especially after her being on the run so long, sounds pretty irresponsible to me.
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But the second surprise is that after being let out, she laid low for 13 years. From 2003 until 2016, she just kind of went under the radar. And during that time, from what I can tell, she actually really focused on fixing things with her family. Now remember, she still had a son, John.
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He was 12 or 13 years old around that time that she had skipped town, but it's hard to say how he felt about all of that. He didn't have much of a relationship with his mom by this point anyway, and the people who were close to Jerry said that she did, though, still love and care about him. But she and John just weren't really in touch.
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And I haven't been able to verify this, and you know what I always say, do your own research and double-check everything, but some people who said that they were close to the family also said that when John was a young adult, in his early 20s or so, he moved to Florida, as in the same state where Jerry was living before she got caught, and also where she kept living after she finished her sentence.
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So I don't know if he came to Florida specifically to find her and reconcile with her, or if maybe it was, I don't know, more of a coincidence, but I do know that at some point afterward, Jerry and John moved into the same house in Mississippi together. So clearly, by that point, they did have some kind of relationship. But then she got tangled up with the law again, this time for selling drugs.
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He was fit, he dressed well, he wore his hair in a buzz cut, and John's neighbors said that he and his family seemed pretty normal. Nobody had noticed anything out of the ordinary recently. He had been acting pretty normal and really just going about his usual routines. So John seemed like he was just this regular guy.
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And I couldn't find anything on this case other than the fact that she served 18 months in prison for it and then was later released in 2017. But that brings us all the way back to January of 2024, with police still searching for her son John and then finding his body in the house that Jerry shared with either her husband or her boyfriend or whoever that was, whatever that relationship was.
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And you know what I think the creepiest part in all of this was? Well, the creepiest part aside from finding a dead body rotting behind a false wall. Remember how John's family members had been receiving letters from John after the day when his stepmom said that he went missing? It turns out that Jerry had been writing and sending his family those letters so that they wouldn't get suspicious.
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The neighbors would see him around the house working on cars, said he was a nice enough guy, like nothing very groundbreaking or anything that would raise the red flag. John was also living with his biological mother, Jerry Israel. And Geri was 66 years old. She was about 5'6". She had blonde hair that went down to her shoulders, really prominent cheekbones that stood out.
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she was posing as her son, the son that she killed. Which, what is it with this woman and her letters? I don't get it. I mean, from the letter she wrote to the police in that handwritten note back in 1993, to the letters that she replaced with blank paper at her boyfriend's house, all the way to the letters she wrote up leading to that manhunt.
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I mean, it just kind of seems to be part of her MO for whatever reason. And it's disturbing to think about because not only had she murdered her own son... but she had it within her to write letters in his voice, his tone, his style, after he was dead. Most parents probably couldn't bear reading or hearing words of their lost child for any period of time after they were gone.
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But Jerry's first priority wasn't mourning. It was making sure that nobody caught on to her scheme. So Jerry was charged with first-degree murder, and right now she's currently waiting for her trial, and she's still sitting in jail in the meantime, which, don't worry, she's not out, thank goodness she can't flee.
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But to get ready for their day in court, the police have been doing extra investigation to try and figure out what actually happened, how Jerry ended up allegedly taking the life of her own son. His autopsy showed that he died of a single gunshot wound, which is in line with her past murder, right?
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But honestly, it's hard to even guess or make a theory about Jerry's motive. The investigators haven't shared any information, and even social media and Reddit, like, you know, all the usual places where you would see, like, and expect to see hot takes, deep theories, little clues, I mean, they're all pretty quiet. The murder is just so bizarre and, quite honestly, baffling.
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And there aren't a lot of photos of Geri out there, but I will say she looks kind of intimidating in all the photos that are out there. I could only find maybe three photos of her actually smiling, and she just seems pretty stern and kind of like no-nonsense.
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It's so impossible to explain that most people aren't even trying to explain it. Now, if I had to take a guess, just this is my personal opinion, again, do your own research, come to your own conclusions, full disclosure, this is just my guess, and I could be wrong, but I think that Jerry killed John over money.
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This is just a theory, and there's no other speculation online to back this up, but just roll with me on it. That's kind of been her MO from the beginning. All of her other crimes were surrounding money. It was all about money. She killed Christina because she didn't want to pay for the drugs. She scammed all of the boyfriends for all that they were worth.
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It was just like money was a common thread. And one detail that really stands out to me, again, just speculating here, but bear with me, is the story that she told the police when they first came over for that welfare check. She told them that John had left town with a bunch of cash to go buy a new car. And it was such a specific story that she made a point of saying that he took cash with him.
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So if someone were to go through John's personal effects, would they find that money missing? Would they find it there? Did Jerry tell that specific cover story to try and explain away where all of John's money went if he did in fact have a large lump sum of cash on him? Did she kill him to rob him or even maybe rob him first and when he caught her, things escalated to a murder?
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I mean, that fits the evidence the best to my mind. I don't know. But that said, I also don't have all the evidence. The investigation is still ongoing, and maybe we'll find something new later on that makes all of this speculation wrong. I don't know. Do your own research. But the other big question to my mind is, what's with all of those other wooden boxes?
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The police still haven't even addressed this. They haven't said if they know what Jerry was planning to use them all for or what the plan was. I mean, I don't think it's too hard to guess and speculate. coffins, right? But Reddit is full of people saying that they're pretty sure that Jerry was planning to kill more people besides John. Which makes sense, right? It's in line.
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You make a ton of body-sized boxes, you end up putting a body in one of them. I mean, clearly the rest of them are for more bodies, right? So was Jerry a budding serial killer hoping to rack up more murders? Or was there some other kind of explanation? Maybe she thought that John's body would be harder to find if she had a house full of identical boxes that were empty. I don't know.
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Maybe, like, the police would open a few of them, find nothing, then stop searching before they made it to the one that actually had her son in it. Clearly, I'm just guessing here because we don't know and we probably won't know until this case goes to trial and the police are willing to share everything they know. But it is a theory.
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Other than that, no other arrests have been made, but police still do have their suspicions about that possible boyfriend, possible husband guy who was living with her. The one who, you know, helped her make that room full of coffin-style boxes. Now, Jerry may not have raised her son, but it's obviously still so disturbing what she allegedly did to him.
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But her neighbors all said that she was a nice woman who was always down for some casual small talk here and there, although I guess for the most part, she pretty much kept to herself. But on that December day, the police were there because they were searching the house because of a welfare check that came in from John's stepmother, Karen.
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And I mean, it's crazy that she had been caught for another incredibly brutal murder a few decades ago, and now she was just kind of roaming free and was let out early. John's whole life sounds like it must have been pretty rough while he was still alive.
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I mean, his mom was absent for most of the time, and it also looks like she wasn't exactly heavily involved even when she was physically there for him, living with him. And even after they reunited when John was older, I can't even imagine what it would be like knowing that your mom, who you were living with, had killed someone.
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Maybe if Jerry had stayed in prison after that first murder, John would still be alive today. We may never know what her motive was in either one of those cases, but of course, there's pretty much no explanation that would ever make it even close to okay. I think we can all agree on that.
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John's death may have been horrific, but I can only hope that his memory lives on with the family that he was close to. And thank goodness for his angel stepmom Karen, who knew something was wrong and that it needed to be investigated further. Because had she just blown it off like the rest of his family, just not taking it seriously, how long would his body have been inside that wall?
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Could Jerry have fled? Would they ever be able to find her? Would they have ever found him? I mean, there's a lot of questions. So I think for me, at least, it's just kind of one more reminder. Always trust your gut, no matter what. It is so important. All right, guys, that's it for today's case. Thank you so much for tuning in with me to another episode of Serialistly.
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As a reminder, if you're not following the podcast yet, it takes two seconds and it's totally free. Whatever app you're listening on, just hit that follow button so that you don't miss future episodes that I post. And if you're watching the YouTube version of this, hit the subscribe button.
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All right, I'll be back on the mic with you first thing on Thursday with an all-new Headline Highlights, breaking down everything going on this week in the true crime world. But until then, stay safe, watch your back, be nice and don't kill people, don't join any cults, and definitely, definitely, definitely do not stuff anyone in any walls.
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All right, guys, until the next one, take care, stay safe, bye.
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Karen had raised John, and she still lived in California where he had grown up. Even though they were in different states now, they usually talked a lot. But beginning around mid-December, about two weeks before this, John had just stopped replying to Karen's phone calls and text messages. So it was pretty weird that he had been radio silent for so long.
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And I mean, after all, we all have social media, cell phones, and email, so it certainly isn't hard to stay in touch with family, you know, anywhere in the country or anywhere in the world for that matter. But here John was, apparently giving Karen the silent treatment completely just out of nowhere.
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Now, because Karen lived out of state, she couldn't just go to John's house and see what was up, right, or try to talk to him. So after more than a week of not hearing from John, she just wanted to make sure that everything was okay. So she ended up reporting him as missing to the police.
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And then that next day, when the detectives didn't have any information or any answers to give her, she also went on Facebook and started asking people for tips and support. She wrote, My stepson, John, is missing. He is 42, 6'1 or so, usually has a shaved head. Last seen in Gulfport, Mississippi, supposedly on his way to Louisiana to buy a car. Please share in hopes to find him.
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Gulfport PD said that they will put him on the national database, but I'm hoping that people on social media will share this post and we will find John. Thank you. Now, I will say, it might seem like an overreaction to call in a wellness check on your adult stepson after only 12 days, especially because other family members said that they had heard from John.
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He had been, I guess, sending them letters, some of which were written after Karen had said she had stopped hearing from him. So it seemed like it was all kind of just a false alarm, right? Maybe just a stepmom getting a little bit too paranoid. Karen even talked to John's biological mother, Jerry, also known as the woman that John was living with.
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And even though Jerry had admitted that she hadn't heard from John for a while, she certainly didn't think that it was necessary to file a missing persons report. So really, it seemed like Karen was the only person who was worried about him.
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And because she didn't have anybody else telling her, you know, that she was right to be so concerned, she kind of just was freaking out by herself, independently, just in this state of panic. Eventually, she decided that, you know, it wouldn't hurt for the police to just start asking around, just make sure that John was okay.
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I mean, the worst that could happen would be to find out that he was fine, that he was just taking some time for himself. Maybe he would feel, sure, a bit annoyed with the cops knocking at his door, a little annoyed with his stepmom for sending in this wellness check, but it seemed worth the risk, I mean, for Karen's peace of mind at least.
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So that's why she requested the wellness check at John's address. And as for that house, well, as soon as the police showed up, they could tell that it looked a little bit odd. Part of it was boarded up, almost like somebody had cut a giant hole in one of the walls without fixing it up afterward. Then there was a bunch of trash in the yard, just scattered everywhere.
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And I'm not trying to be judgy here, I promise. I mean, keeping a house clean and keeping it nice and tidy, it's definitely hard work. But from photos of the place, it just did not look very welcoming. And I've got to imagine that as soon as the police showed up to this address and saw how everything looked, they were probably on alert.
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It just didn't seem like a place where you would want to be looking around, especially after dark. So they knocked on the door. And when they did, his mom, Jerry, answered. But she told the police that her son had taken a whole bunch of cash and just left for Louisiana. Apparently, he was on his way there to buy a new car, which was in line with what everybody else had thought.
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She said that's why he needed all of that money. She said that once he bought the car, had it all paid for, and everything was settled, he was going to come back home safe and sound. I mean, Jerry definitely was not worried at all. But there was one thing that was odd in all of this. because the car that John already had was parked at the house.
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So how was he planning on getting to Louisiana almost a thousand miles away without a car? And yes, it's not illegal for a 42-year-old man to not talk to his mom for a couple of weeks, and it's also not illegal for a 42-year-old man to go buy himself a car, even if he goes with a friend or takes a bus there or, you know, hitchhikes, for all I know, whatever.
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236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So for the police, this wasn't even suspicious, not at all. So they didn't take the report very seriously. That being said, though, they did decide to look at his financial records, see if they could track him down and confirm that he was at the very least okay, you know, alive and well and fine. Except when they did that, they weren't able to track John at all after December 10th.
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because that's when all of his cell phone activity and his credit card activity just stopped. There were no signs that he had ever even made it to Louisiana, and certainly no indication, other than the cash that he had left with, that he had bought a car. So that was a little strange.
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236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
And even though the police still weren't treating his disappearance as this urgent thing, the whole situation was weird enough that they filed a report and added John to the Registry of Missing People, just like they promised his stepmom that they would. But then they left it alone for a little while.
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236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
They probably figured that this whole situation would just iron itself out and John would come, you know, walking back up the driveway within a couple of days. But five days later, on December 27th, it was still radio silence on John's end. So that was the day that the police went back to John's house for a follow-up visit. And when they did, they noticed something odd.
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Jerry's story of what happened to her son in the last few days since he had gone missing... seemed to have changed. Now, unfortunately, the police haven't publicly given any details on exactly how her story changed. You know, what details were inconsistent, nothing like that. All I know for sure is that Jerry was acting untrustworthy. She was throwing up all kinds of red flags.
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The police also described her in one of their reports as, quote, uncooperative. And again, I wish I knew the full details and what specific things she was doing instead of, you know, cooperating, but the full story hasn't been made public yet.
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But whatever Jerry was doing, it was definitely making the police kind of give her a little bit of, like, side-eye, kind of just, like, thinking she's not being totally honest with them. Now, because they lived together, Jerry was probably the last known person to have seen John, right? So she was the only lead that the cops really had to work with.
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But without probable cause and with no warrant, there wasn't really much that they could do. They took note of Jerry's changing stories and, you know, did what they could in that regard.
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But then they headed back to the station to try to come up with something that might actually get them into that house so they could possibly search or find or see something that would give them some sort of indication about what happened to John. And guys, when they got back to the station and started doing some digging, they found plenty.
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Jerry had a very lengthy rap sheet, and I'm going to just put a pin in that for now. Don't worry, I will definitely come back and talk all about her history, all the charges that she has faced in her past, all of that.
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All you really need to know at this point in the story is that Jerry's history was colorful, to say the least, and colorful enough that the police were willing to say, okay, yeah, we have good cause to do more of a search and really try to find John right now.
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236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
So just shy of a month later, on January 18, 2024, at about 10 a.m., some detectives and crime scene techs came back to the house, this time with a warrant. Jerry's neighbors were definitely shocked to see a swarm of cops outside because before this time, Jerry and John had seemed like a pretty normal mother and son.
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You know, they would be outside, they would do yard work together, they would occasionally chat with the neighbors. There was definitely nothing that had given anyone any reason to think that either of these two people would be related to this massive police search. So the detectives went inside the house, and right away, Jerry started freaking out. Just...
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Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly, your favorite true crime podcast with me, Annie Elise. Do I sound like a, I don't know, an auctioneer or something? I don't know. But hi, it's me, Annie, your true crime bestie. I am here to break down another case for you on this early, early morning. And boy, oh boy, okay.
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acting like something terrible was happening. Which, I have to say, that was pretty suspicious on her part, right? I mean, even more suspicious than all the other ridiculous stuff that she had been doing up until this point. But the detectives hadn't even found anything yet, yet she was starting to panic and act a little bit frantic. So far, her place had looked like any ordinary house would.
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But Jerry's behavior, it was setting up all kinds of red flags. Then right away, while the search was actually happening, still going on, she got her hands on a pill bottle. Then she swallowed a handful, a fistful of pills in an attempt to take her own life. Now, the good news is that the detectives realized what was going on and they got her to a hospital. She recovered.
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But this was one more thing in like the already bizarre and erratic behavior to be like, what does this chick have to hide? Like, what is going on here? So she didn't get out of this search the easy way. Not at all. She didn't escape from this investigation by dying, although she clearly wanted to do that. And even with her attempt, the police didn't call off their search of the house. Not at all.
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And guys, what they found inside, it was insane. With the new year comes a new opportunity to refresh and reimagine our style. And let's just be honest guys, there is nothing like starting fresh with a wardrobe that you absolutely love. So this year I am all about finding pieces that feel luxurious, but that also don't break the bank. And that is where Quince comes in.
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236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel
I personally think that everybody needs Quince's cozy Mongolian cashmere sweaters. I own probably like four different ones. I own the sets, I own the v-neck, I own the cardigan, and they start at just $50. They are an absolute steal. They are like butter soft. I've gotten all my friends hooked on them. They are like the best.
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And if you're like me and you're trying to get back and do a workout routine for the new year, their moisture wicking bras and leggings are designed to move with you and keep you comfortable. And the best part is, however you choose to refresh your look this year, Quince's pieces are priced 50-80% less than similar brands.
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They're able to do this by partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the middleman. Then they pass those savings on to us. Plus, they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices, so you can feel good about every purchase. I personally love their cashmere sweater sets, like I mentioned, but I also love their bedding.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And the judge further said that Nicholas would just really try to undermine Brian any chance that he got, that he would completely ruin his family and, even worse, potentially put them in danger. So, wanting to keep his family safe, Brian stopped the adoption process. So at this point, Nicholas is feeling hopeless. Nobody's taking him in. Things aren't going his way.
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He can't find someone to manipulate to get on his side. And in 2008, when he was attending that community college in Ohio, he started really grappling with this, feeling really lonely.
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He was new to the area, he didn't have a lot of friends, so he decided to go on MySpace to meet people, which MySpace is more of like the archaic version of Facebook for those of you who are younger and never used it. But while on MySpace, he met a woman named Mary Grabinski. They started talking online and they became fast friends.
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Now with this new friendship, Mary had a boyfriend and Nicholas really wasn't interested in a relationship. So they really were truly just friends. Then one day in the winter of 2008, they went out for lunch together and it was their first time meeting in person. And Mary was so surprised at how charming, how charismatic Nicholas was. They just hit it off. They had a really great time.
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Nicholas even offered to walk Mary to class that she had later that afternoon. So they leave this lunch spot and start walking to class, which her class was in a basement building on campus, and everything seemed great. They had had such a wonderful afternoon, such a wonderful lunch.
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But once they got into that basement, things took a turn, a very dark turn, because Nicholas started getting very aggressive with Mary, which totally shocked her. I mean, she thought he was so charming, so nice, so charismatic. He seemed so normal. But while they were in the stairwell, Nicholas pushed her up against a wall and he forced his hands up her shirt.
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She told him to stop and to get off of her multiple times, but he didn't stop and she couldn't push him off. She wasn't strong enough. Now, at one point, a few students started coming down the stairs, but once they saw what was going on, they just turned around and left. They didn't want to get involved.
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I mean, maybe they thought that they accidentally came across this couple and that these college kids who were just like going at it and it was consensual. I don't really know. But for whatever reason, they turned around. So because of that, Nicholas just continued assaulting Mary. He pulled her pants down. He started touching himself.
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And eventually, while he was, you know, jerking himself off, he ended up finishing on her. After that, he pulled up his pants, turned around, and he just left. Almost like nothing even happened. Just like casual, calm, just pulled his pants up and then just walked away. Like nothing, like literally, like nothing ever happened.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Mary, on the other hand, she just stood there, frozen in the stairwell in complete shock. She felt numb. She didn't know how to respond. She didn't know what to do. So she just kind of went into autopilot and went to class. She was just going through the motions. And then when she finally left class, when class was over, guess who was standing there waiting for her? Nicholas.
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When he saw Mary, he told her he was sorry, as though some simple apology would suffice for what he had just done. And he begged her not to go to the police. But Mary wasn't having it. She was pissed. She felt violated. So after he left, she did the exact opposite of what he asked. And she went to the police.
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someone who had been born in the United States and was wanted for rape and sexual assault. Now, if what the police were saying was true, then how did this person, whoever they were, become Arthur Knight? And also, how did he get into the UK? And how did he escape the police and go unnoticed for nearly five years? Hey guys, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
All right, you guys, when I first started this podcast and spent hours deep diving into these cases, I didn't think it would mess with my sleep, but oh my God, I was so wrong. After a while, I realized that these cases were keeping me up at night because as you know, some of them are like downright terrifying. And because of that, my brain, it just wouldn't shut off. I'd be lying there at 2 a.m.,
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
replaying every single detail that was about the case every second guessing if I missed anything and if I did finally fall asleep I would wake up just feeling exhausted almost like I hadn't slept at all and that's why I'm so excited to share something that has made a real difference in my life. That's Beam's Dream Powder.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Dream is a healthy nighttime blend packed with science-backed ingredients that is shown to improve sleep so that you can wake up refreshed and ready to take on the day, whether that's going to work or solve in a cold case. And let me just tell you, this stuff works. Unlike the other sleep aids, there's no next day grogginess, no weird side effects, just great restful sleep.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Plus, it actually tastes amazing. Dream is made with a powerful blend of all natural ingredients. reishi, magnesium, l-theanine, apigenin, and melatonin. And Beam has already improved over 17.5 million nights of sleep, helping people all across the country wake up and feel their best. And I can tell you from personal experience, it has been a lifesaver and a game changer for me.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, here's the deal. Beam is giving my listeners their best offer yet, up to 40% off. Try their best-selling dream powder and get up to 40% off for a limited time. Go to shopbeam.com slash Annie Elise and use code Annie Elise at checkout. That's shopbeam.com slash Annie Elise. And remember, use code Annie Elise for up to 40% off. Solve the case of your bad sleep by trying Beam today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, initially, the police told Mary that there wasn't enough evidence to pursue the case. That was until they got Nicholas's side of the story. Because when they talked to Nicholas, Nicholas told a completely different version of what happened. He said that Mary was the aggressor, that she was the one who attacked him. However, the police didn't believe his story.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
His story was a huge red flag to them because just weeks before, Nicholas had actually made the exact same claim about a different woman. It turns out that 15 days before Mary put in her report with the police, another woman had filed a police report. This woman stated that Nicholas also assaulted her.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, her report was not only very similar to Mary's, but when the police went to go talk with Nicholas about it, he again claimed that this woman had been the aggressor. So now, with two very similar stories from two completely different women, the police were looking more closely at Mary's case, taking it more seriously. So Nicholas was charged with sexual imposition and public indecency.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He was found guilty, but he didn't have to serve any jail time. All he had to do was pay a fine and then register on the sex registry for the next 15 years, which to me feels like a very big slap on the wrist. You're not doing any time. You're just paying a fine and getting your name on the registry. Like, what is that about? Especially when you have a track record of this, right?
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, even though there wasn't a lot of justice, in my opinion,
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
at least there was some sort of resolution but nicholas wasn't having it nicholas ended up filing a motion for a retrial based on something that he found on mary's myspace page because on her myspace page she had posted about how she lied about everything that she said everything she alleged that nicholas did to her but mary said no she didn't say that that post wasn't hers now the only proof that nicholas had was a screenshot of this alleged post
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, the reason I chose this case and wanted to talk to you about it is because it is truly the definition of a roller coaster. There are so many twists along the way. There's parts of these interviews, which if you've seen them, you may know what I'm talking about. If you haven't seen them, don't worry. I will play them for you.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
The actual post couldn't be found on Mary's MySpace page. And eventually, at a hearing in February of 2011, a computer forensic expert testified that he was 90% sure that this post was fake. She never made this post. It was doctored. It was fabricated. So that testimony ended up getting Nicholas's motion for a retrial completely dismissed. But Nicholas was still angry.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He still wasn't done with Mary. So after he was found guilty, he started an internet tirade against her. He started becoming really big in these online men's groups and all of these incel groups, which I gotta say is like a huge red flag in and of itself. He was posting frequently, especially on this website called A Voice for Men, which, try to tell me something worse than that.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Sorry for any guys listening, but, like, a collection of, like, angry men who hate women who are posting on all these websites and, like, fueling each other on this. Like, it's so pathetic that I would want to laugh if it weren't so truly dangerous because of what comes out of these groups. I mean, we saw it with Elliot Rodgers. We are seeing it possibly now. We've seen it with a bunch of incels.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
I mean, it can get very scary because they're all just like rage baiting and encouraging each other to do this horrible stuff. So anyway, I know I digressed for a minute. I apologize. But he was constantly writing posts just completely smearing Mary's name. He would post pictures of her. He would post her address. Like really just trying to get this whole hate train against Mary.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, some of the articles that he would write were titled, When Criminal Justice is Criminal, The Nicholas Alevandarian Story, Mary Grabeski's Big Lie, Proof of Mary's Big Lie. Even one that was titled, Evidence of the Sex-Crazed Psychotic Mary, as seen on Facebook. Just like, not letting it go, and really trying to drag this poor girl through the mud.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And get this, by this point, it was a couple of years after Nicholas had assaulted Mary. She had gotten married. She had moved on. She was trying to live her life. But Nicholas was just tormenting her. And obviously, her husband was not down with what was going on. So he ended up posting something online where he just called Nicholas crazy, saying, this guy is a freaking lunatic. He is a loser.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He is an incel, probably. Like, get out of here. Don't believe a thing this guy is saying. But this post upset Nicholas so much that he ended up trying to sue Mary for libel. Luckily, though, that case was thrown out, and Nicholas was the one who ended up paying all of Mary's legal fees, which you can imagine only infuriated him even more.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, throughout this whole process, he ended up being kicked out of his college due to his status as an offender on the registry. which, big surprise, because we know that he's litigious, we know that he loves litigation, so he even tried to sue the college over this, yet that case was dismissed too. So then, after that, Nicholas wrote yet another article.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
This one was called My Personal 9-11, and in this article, he recounted everything that had happened, and he said, whole ordeal, it ruined his life, it ruined his goals, his aspirations, and he really compared Mary's actions to the actions of the people who were responsible for 9-11. 9-11, as in the terrorist attack. And he is comparing Mary, his victim, to those people.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But parts of these interviews where I was literally hysterically laughing. I mean, I lose my mind at one point because it is just so funny, the audacity of some people. And the theatrics and lengths that they will go to to try to convince somebody of something other than the truth. So this case involves this man who everybody thought was truly a good guy. He was well-liked.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
I mean, make it make sense, right? To me, it just seems like, again, a pattern of him thinking that he can sue everybody, that it's everybody else's fault, he's the victim in everything. To me, it seems like it's glaringly obvious that there is like an increased level of narcissism here.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
It's just when people are this unhinged and unwell, it becomes very scary because you don't know what they are truly capable of. And while all of this was going on, Nicholas ended up moving back to Rhode Island.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And just to give you a little bit of the sense of timeline, because I know I've jumped around a little bit, this was when he first started his whole pursuit against DCYF, when he moved back to Rhode Island after this whole Mary thing. He also got married in late 2010, which I gotta say, that marriage was his first marriage.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And then as I mentioned at the top of this episode, he got married again in 2020. And there are very few details about Nicholas's first marriage, who he married, where, how they met, what her name was. I mean, she really may not have known about Nicholas's past at all, so no, you know, shade to her. But what we do know is that this marriage did not have a great start.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Just days after he got married, on November 11, 2010, the Rhode Island police received calls about very loud domestic disturbances, yelling, raised voices coming from the apartment that Nicholas shared with his wife. When the police arrived, they heard the voices of a man and a woman who were arguing inside the apartment. They knocked, and a woman answered the door.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And when the police saw Nicholas's wife, they were immediately concerned because her appearance raised a lot of red flags. She had bruises on her neck, her arms, her right eye was completely swollen, and it looked like she had been beaten pretty severely. But when Nicholas saw the police, he started apologizing to his wife. He asked her to come back inside, trying to, like, backpedal on everything.
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but his wife ignored him, and she told the police that they had gotten into an argument, that Nicholas grabbed her, threw her to the ground, and that when she tried to get out from under him, he hit her in the face. So Nicholas was arrested, and he was very uncooperative with the police. He was
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put into the back of the police car, and as they started driving to the station, Nicholas just kept hitting his head against the bars, you know, the bars that separate the front from the back in a police car.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He just kind of like kept rocking back and forth, hitting his head against them, like throwing this like complete crazy tantrum, and it got so bad that the police officers ended up having to pepper spray him to get him to stop. I mean, a lunatic. In the end, Nicholas was charged with domestic assault, and he pled no contest.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He didn't have to serve any jail time, and his wife ended up filing a restraining order against him and also started the divorce process. However, before the divorce could be finalized, Nicholas kept calling his wife and kept threatening her, which was obviously, hello, a huge violation of that restraining order that was put in place.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And he only ever stopped when the police told him that they were going to have to arrest him if he didn't stop contacting her. Which, I mean, this guy is clearly like a walking red flag, right? I don't understand why they didn't already arrest him. I don't know why he wasn't held before. It just doesn't make any sense.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But nevertheless, he now, I guess, was spooked by the police because he did not want to serve jail time. So he did stop harassing her. And the divorce was finalized in May of 2011. Now, I kind of mentioned already that he jumped around a lot. He went from state to state, not only when he was in foster care and group homes, but kind of throughout his life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Because now, four years after this divorce, Nicholas was back living in Ohio again. He eventually became involved in the Mormon church, and there he met a woman named Catherine Heckendorn. Catherine really liked Nicholas. He seemed sweet. They got along well. Again, he seemed to have like a lot of charisma to him. And before meeting Nicholas, Catherine had been in a very abusive relationship.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He had a great, strong community. He was married. He was educated at all the best places. And he was really trying to make a difference in the world. But as it turns out, the reality was much, much different because it turns out that he may have lied about everything. And even more than that, may have been one of the worst predators that the police were hunting for years. But was that true?
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She was still healing from that relationship. And Nicholas, he seemed kind of like her knight in shining armor. He seemed very understanding of all of that. He acted very supportive of Catherine. They would get coffee together, dinner together. I mean, pretty frequently too. And they eventually started dating.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Nicholas had told her about his past work with the House of Representatives, his advocacy work, his time in college. He also talked about how he graduated from Harvard. And he just came across as this really smart and charming guy. And Catherine felt like there was a lot of mystery around Nicholas too, but like in a good way, good mystery. in a way where she felt like she wanted to know more.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She wanted to know more about him. Now, obviously, Catherine was completely unaware of Nicholas's past, and she also had no idea that he was on the registry. I mean, it wasn't something that he ever was going to bring up. She was also totally unaware why his last marriage had ended.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She knew that he had been married, yes, because Nicholas had told her that himself, but he had said that the divorce was because he and his ex just simply grew apart. That's where he left it. He didn't say anything else. Now, even though Catherine liked Nicholas, initially she wasn't too sure about getting more serious with him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Nicholas had started bringing up marriage, though, very early into their relationship, and Catherine just was not on board. Yet Nicholas just kept badgering her about it. And one day while they were watching TV, he even just randomly proposed as if he was like, just like not reading the room, my guy. And Catherine still wasn't very sure about it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Yet she also always wanted to be a wife, so she was really struggling with what to do. So basically, after all of the months of him badgering her, she broke down. She gave in to Nicholas, and she said that she would marry him. And Nicholas did not want to wait. He wanted to get married right away. Probably because he didn't want her to change her mind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So literally, the very next day, just six months after they met, they went to a courthouse and they got married. This was October of 2015. But then, on the night of their wedding, Nicholas beat Catherine for the very first time. It was almost like a switch had just flipped.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Or like the second that Nicholas got Catherine legally attached to him as his wife, she was like his property and he was able to show who he truly was. And like I said, Catherine wasn't even too sure about marrying Nicholas in the first place. Maybe she knew deep down that something about him was off, but now it was all coming to the surface.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And married life just continued to get worse for Catherine. Nicholas started controlling every single aspect of her life. Who she was friends with, where she went, what she wore. I mean, literally everything. He wouldn't even let her talk to her own family. Just classic narcissistic controlling behavior that we have seen time and time again, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Catherine tried to call the police a few times, but Nicholas usually took her phone away before she could even get through. However, one time she was able to call the police, and this was just a couple of months after they had gotten married. Nicholas had hit her again. Now this time, when the police came to their home, they informed Catherine that Nicholas was on the registry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. In January of 2022, 34-year-old Arthur Knight woke up after being in a three-month-long coma. He was initially placed into this medically induced coma in Glasgow, Scotland, three months earlier because he had a very severe case of COVID-19.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
They warned her that he was this very dangerous man, and they were expressing genuine concern for her safety. They also arrested Nicholas, and they made it clear that they were very frightened of what Nicholas might do next, or how his behavior may escalate. So they urged Catherine to consider leaving him, to be cautious.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
They even suggested that she think about getting a restraining order so that she could protect herself. But Catherine stayed. She even ended up bailing Nicholas out, and some of you might find that detail confusing, but people don't always act their normal selves if they're in an abusive relationship or in an abusive environment.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Catherine was just hoping that things would get better, that he would change, that it would maybe be some sort of wake-up call now that he was finally arrested. Would that be the case? Things didn't get better. They actually got worse. Catherine was forced to stay at home nearly 24-7. She couldn't leave the house. She couldn't have a job. She couldn't spend time with friends.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Or did the police have the wrong guy? So we are going to go through everything. And I promise you, even if you think you know this case, you don't know it. Because we did the deep dive so that you don't have to. And we are going to go over all the details. But warning, buckle up. It's a wild one.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
I mean, she couldn't see her family, nothing. And as I said, Nicholas at this point was controlling not only all aspects of her social life, but also what she wore. And in a lot of these cases that we've talked about, generally, When men are controlling what their partner is wearing, it's because they want them to look more conservative, more covered up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
They don't want them to show too many things. But Nicholas was kind of the opposite. He started forcing her to wear these really short skirts and these tights and this almost uniform type looking outfit. He even started wearing three-piece suits around the house because he thought that it made him look more sophisticated.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So to Catherine, Nicholas really seemed more hyper-focused about appearances than anything else. I mean, everything just seemed to be a show for him. Around this same time, Nicholas also started a non-profit called Community Progress Institute. The goal of this nonprofit was to revitalize the downtown area in Dayton, Ohio. This is where they, of course, lived.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But despite how smart Nicholas thought that he was, he just was not a good businessman. Now, typically, nonprofits rely on a network of very generous people and different organizations that believe in their cause, right? I mean, these supporters donate money. They help fund everything from day-to-day operations to their big-picture goals, right? But Nicholas didn't have a large donor base.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And it's unclear just how many people actually even contributed to his cause. But whatever the number, it clearly was not enough to keep things afloat. So with fundraising falling short, Nicholas had to get creative. He had to find another solution to bring in money. And that solution was Catherine.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Nicholas just happened to discover that Catherine had a personal savings account with quite a bit of money in it. And I think we can all probably see where this is going, right? We know the direction of where this is going to lead. But Nicholas ended up forcing Catherine to give him $10,000, threatening her, saying if she didn't allow him to take this money, he was going to hurt her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And this became a reoccurring mess. The nonprofit just kept running out of money, and Nicholas would then pressure Catherine into bailing him out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Nicholas Rossi was born on July 11th, 1987, and he lived right outside of Providence, Rhode Island. Now, it's worth noting that although he went by Nicholas Rossi, he was originally born as Nicholas Oliverdian. Unfortunately, Nicholas's parents separated when he was pretty young, and his dad, from what I've researched, was allegedly very abusive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And the abuse got so bad that Nicholas's mom ended up getting a restraining order against him, and she went into hiding with Nicholas and with his two younger siblings. His dad ended up spending most of Nicholas's childhood in jail for a variety of crimes. Things like writing fraudulent checks, dealing drugs, even domestic assault.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. But Louise countered that, and she insisted that after moving to the UK, Nicholas continued working in politics to help save children, to help foster children particularly. But of course, wouldn't you know it, she couldn't really provide any proof to back up that claim.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But eventually, Nicholas' mom ended up getting remarried, and then that's when Nicholas took the last name of his stepfather, Rossi. Although I think it is worth mentioning that throughout his life, he would go back and forth a little bit. Sometimes he would use the last name Rossi, but then sometimes he would also use Oliverdian.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So then she was kind of like, okay, okay, okay, well, if you won't name a law after him, can you at least put together a condolence resolution for him? Which you might be wondering, which I was too when I heard that, what the heck is a condolence resolution? Well, basically, it's a way for government officials to show that they care when a prominent person passes away.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
It's a symbolic gesture, more than anything, where they express their sorrow while also giving a nod to the person's contributions to society. So think of it kind of as like a very formal version of a we're sorry for your loss, yet it has a little bit extra recognition that's thrown in there for good measure. And the Rhode Island House of Representatives actually considered doing it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
However, something just felt off because none of the information that Louise was providing seemed credible. Louise also said that she and Nicholas were married with children, but she wouldn't provide any information about their wedding. She couldn't even say what the names of their children were.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, even with this new marriage, and even though things looked promising, unfortunately, Nicholas's mom's marriage didn't last, and eventually the two of them divorced. So being single, his mom struggled and had a really hard time caring for Nicholas and for his two younger siblings.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And the thing that makes this even weirder, if you can believe it, is that Louise couldn't even provide proof of who she was. Nobody who knew Nicholas was aware that he ever had gotten married again. They had never heard of Louise, ever, and Louise didn't provide her full name, her photo, nothing to really show that she was who she said she was, and that she was actually married to Nicholas.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And on top of that, people started suspecting and thinking that Louise sounded an awful lot like Nicholas. The writing styles were suspiciously similar. But is that a red flag, or did they just talk the same way because they were married and she was trying to really, you know, continue his legacy? Who knows?
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But after her efforts with the Rhode Island House of Representatives completely failed, Louise decided to start contacting multiple churches. She was asking them to hold a large memorial mass for Nicholas, just like a big show, a big mass production. No pun intended.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, many of them said no, though it's unclear if they had refused because something felt off or because Nicholas was on the registry and had been a convicted offender and they didn't want to, you know, glorify that in the church. But for whatever reason, finally, months after Nicholas's death, one priest in Rhode Island agreed to this. So Louise was completely thrilled. She called the priest.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She was gushing about how wonderful Nicholas was. She was rattling off this long list of demands for the memorial too. But the call was just odd. Louise's voice, it was high pitched with this like bizarre, almost fake sounding British accent, almost like somebody was using a voice changer. And the priest could not shake the feeling that something was off here.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And it didn't take long for his suspicions to be confirmed. Shortly after his phone call with Luis, the priest received another phone call, but this time it was from the Rhode Island Police Department. And they told him, stop, cancel the memorial. Because according to them, Nicholas was not dead. And the priest was absolutely stunned hearing this information, I mean, who wouldn't be?
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But he of course did what the police requested, and he canceled the memorial service. However, when he called Louise to break the news to her, he didn't have the heart to give her the real reason, so he decided to kind of like whip up some fake little excuse. And not surprisingly, Louise did not take that very well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She fired off a ton of angry emails to the priest, and each one was angrier than the last. And then, Luis started calling all these other churches, trying to arrange for a new memorial. But the police were already one step ahead. They had already contacted all of the local churches, warning them, The message was clear. If Luis calls, do not fall for her sob story. Don't even think about it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She was an alcoholic, she was abusive too, and obviously the situation just was not the best living situation for children. So eventually, she just couldn't provide for herself and her children. And while it isn't entirely clear what happened to Nicholas's siblings, Nicholas ended up going into the foster care system. So he bounced around from home to home, foster parent to foster parent.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, when Luis caught wind that the police doubted Nicolas' death, she ended up turning her anger toward them. She bombarded them with phone calls, ranting about how disrespectful it was to tarnish Nicholas's memory, that these are all outrageous rumors, that they're totally like killing his legacy. And she got so dramatic, and she even insisted again that she witnessed this death for herself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She saw it. She saw him take his last breath. Why weren't they believing her? But the Rhode Island police were not buying it. They actually knew that Nicholas had moved out of the United States a few years before his, you know, quote, death, and they had had some pretty suspicious interactions with him right before his death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
See, around 2018, Rhode Island police discovered that Nicholas hadn't updated his address in the registry. And this was, of course, against the law. So for that, they issued an arrest warrant for him. but they couldn't find him. Nicholas somehow had caught wind that they were looking for him, so he ended up calling them himself. He told them he moved out of the United States.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He was now living in the UK. Therefore, he didn't have to tell them his new address. He insisted that he only had to update his address in the registry if he was living in the United States. And Nicholas wasn't wrong. He even got a lawyer involved, and there was a lot of back and forth. The Rhode Island police even called the U.S.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Marshals, who confirmed that in 2018, Nicholas purchased a one-way ticket to Ireland and he never returned. So in the end, it was determined that Nicholas was right. Because he lived out of the country, he did not have to update his address in the registry. And it was shortly after this entire incident that Nicholas died. But the whole thing was just super fishy, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And when the Rhode Island officials caught wind of his death and also heard that his widow was making this whole spectacle out of it, they decided to dig a little bit deeper. They even ended up reaching out to Interpol to see if they could find some evidence of him passing away. But surprise, surprise, they could not find a single shred of evidence.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So that's when they started calling the churches, warning them, Nicholas wasn't actually dead. You guys need to hold off on any memorial services. This is all a scam. And here's the thing, the police weren't the only people who were skeptical about this. A lot of people had their doubts.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
In fact, a lot of people suspected the whole thing was just this huge elaborate stunt and that Nicholas was alive and well behind the entire thing. And this was mainly because he wasn't exactly known for his honesty or humility. Over the years, he had built this reputation as a master manipulator, somebody who wasn't afraid to twist the truth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So when his death was announced and his obituary started kind of making the rounds, circling around, people didn't just grieve, they started raising their eyebrows. I mean, this whole obituary, it was just so excessively flattering, and it sounded just like Nicholas. So much so that people suspected he may have even written it himself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So that paired with the vague details surrounding his death, it just made the situation very odd. And this is where things do get a little bit twisted and a little bit hard to follow. But the Rhode Island police weren't the only people who were looking into the validity of Nicholas's death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
It turns out that multiple people, all independent of one another, all had reached the same conclusion that Nicholas was likely still alive. And get this, shortly after that situation with not updating his address and all of that stuff, the thing that he had with the Rhode Island police, you know, before his, quote, death, Nicholas had had one last request for his lawyer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And unfortunately, his experience with his foster parents was very similar to what he had experienced with his real parents. He faced abuse, mistreatment, neglect. It just almost seemed like this vicious cycle. And since nothing was working out with the foster parents... Nicholas ended up being placed in a series of group homes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
He wanted to see if there were any warrants out there for his arrest. Which this was a pretty strange request, especially coming from somebody who was always talking about how innocent they were. But nevertheless, his lawyer looked into it, and sure enough, he found that yes, there was another warrant out for Nicholas's arrest. And this time, it was from the FBI.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
The FBI had been investigating Nicholas for credit card fraud. Allegedly, Nicholas had opened about 22 credit cards in the name of his former foster parent, John Lang. and he had racked up almost 200 grand in charges on those cards. So the FBI was trying to pin down Nicholas's exact location. They knew that he was somewhere in the UK, but they couldn't track down exactly where he was.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And they believed that Nicholas was intentionally trying to hide his location by purposefully hiding his IP address. I mean, remember, he was good with computers after all. And then coincidentally, shortly after Nicholas learned that the FBI had a warrant out for him, he just up and mysteriously died, was vanished, wiped off the planet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But like so many other people, the FBI did not believe that his death was real. And in fact, they found that his bank accounts were still active after his death. His IP address was also the one that was associated with all those emails that Luis was sending, all those huge, long-winded emails to reporters. It was an IP address that they knew that Nicholas had used.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And then, as if things could not get even more complicated or confusing, a few months after Nicholas's death, the FBI received a call from the authorities in Utah. And it turns out that they had also been investigating Nicholas. they too had issued a warrant for his arrest in the fall of 2020. And while they were looking for him, that's when they stumbled across that obituary saying that he died.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But they also saw a bunch of the rumors that were swirling around online saying that he actually wasn't dead. So the Utah authorities decided to call the FBI to see what was going on. And what they found out was truly horrifying. So now we're going to Utah, where they had their own independent investigation into Nicholas on their own.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And we're going to go back a couple of years to 2018, because police in Utah started testing old rape kits. And since Nicholas was a convicted sex offender, his DNA was of course in the system. And there was a kit from 2008 that came back as a match to him. Now, as I mentioned earlier, when he was younger, Nicholas bounced around from place to place.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And in 2008, he would have been roughly 20 years old, and he also lived in Utah for a short while. And in September of that year, a woman went to a local hospital and said that she was assaulted by her ex-boyfriend, Nicholas. Nicholas and this woman had met on MySpace, and eventually they started a relationship in the summer of 2008.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Then in 2003, Nicholas was sent to a place in Nebraska called Boys Town. And he said that this experience was truly terrible because according to Nicholas, the other kids in Boys Town beat him up regularly. They taunted him and they just overall made his life completely miserable. So because of that, once again, he moved. He packed up all his things, and he moved to a different group home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
However, this relationship was short-lived, thanks to Nicholas's temper, his abusive behavior, and the fact that he even stole money from her. So she broke it off. But in September, Nicholas apparently lured her to his apartment. He claimed he wanted to repay her for all of the money that he had stolen from her. She, of course, didn't really want to see Nicholas, but she did want her money back.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So she went, reluctantly. And instead of giving her back the money as he promised to do, Nicholas attacked her and raped her. And then he blocked her from leaving. However, I've got to say, she was terrified but extremely brave because in a quick moment when he got distracted by a text message, she seized that opportunity and she escaped.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
She got out of his apartment and she ran directly to the hospital. Once she arrived, she was given a SANE exam and the police were called. However, when the police questioned Nicholas about this attack, he, like so many times in his past, just completely flipped the script, and he made her be the aggressor in his version of the story.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
It almost sounded identical to what happened with Mary and to that other unknown woman before Mary. Which, remember, he also met Mary off Myspace, which is where he met this woman. Now, they didn't have all of those pieces together at the time. They didn't know all of this. So because of the conflicting stories, the case was stalled, and Nicholas's DNA was never taken.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So because of that, this woman's rape kit just sat there, untouched for years, until 10 years later in 2018. And while the U. police were now like hot on Nicholas's trail, they also came across a ton of different dirt on him. Because it turns out that Nicholas's past was littered with allegations of assault, rape, abuse. I mean, this stretched across multiple states.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
The police uncovered numerous old reports going all the way back from 2007 to 2019. And these are all in addition to the cases that we've already talked about. And just to give you a little bit of insight into a few of these cases and some of the examples of what he was doing, in July of 2010 in Rhode Island, one woman had reported that she and Nicholas had just been casually dating.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But then things took a very dark turn when he brought her to his house. He took her phone, he essentially trapped her inside the house, and he started insisting in a really creepy way that she come, like, sit on his lap, kiss him, and he even took it further, threatening to kill himself if she didn't comply.
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Now, she managed to escape after screaming at him, but police later questioned Nicholas after she filed the report, and his excuse to the police was that he had just started treatment for depression, which, according to him, it made his emotions go all over the place.
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And apparently, for the police, that was good enough, that was believable, because any investigation into him was halted, which is truly appalling and, like, unacceptable. Then, in December of 2010, so just a few months later, another woman filed a police report against Nicholas. She said that Nicholas had invited her over to his apartment so that they could have dinner.
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They had dinner together, but then Nicholas tried to have sex with her afterwards. She didn't want to. She rejected his advances, and that of course upset him. So he then locked her in his apartment and prevented her from leaving, and then he forced himself on her.
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Now as if this wasn't bad enough, he also made her give him $200, and then he forced her to take like a video recording, a video of herself saying she wasn't going to pursue any legal action against him, the money that she gave him was because he would need therapy due to her violent actions, and... that she suffered from having a sex addiction. Like, what a complete lunatic this guy was.
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This one was in Florida, and it was called Manatee Palm Youth Services. Now, this went on for years and years, just foster home to foster home to group home to group home. And at 18, he was now in Ohio, living with yet another foster family.
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And in Rhode Island alone, there were six different allegations of assault against him. However, many of the women who filed these complaints ended up dropping the charges or dropping the complaints because they were just too scared of Nicholas. I mean, look at what he did to Mary. He basically tried to, like, do this whole internet smear campaign against her, ruining her life.
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One of his old roommates also had a restraining order against him because Nicholas had physically assaulted him when they lived together. I mean, he stole a lot of his things, too. It was just like he was this repetitive, habitual predator in more ways than one. It wasn't exclusive to women. It wasn't exclusive to sexual assault. It was physical abuse. It was theft. It was just a variety of things.
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Just... A true sense of like narcissistic entitlement. So now that all of these dirty secrets are being exposed and people are cross-sharing information, a lot of people, totally independent of one another, were all coming to the same conclusion. Nicholas was still alive. And get this, it got so extreme that even the people at Wikipedia stepped in.
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Because Nicholas had a Wikipedia page for himself because of the non-profit work, his work in politics, all of those things. So people who worked at like a sub page of Wikipedia, I think it's called like Wikipedia Ocrase or like something like that. I don't know how to pronounce it. But they started noticing that Nicholas's Wikipedia page was being updated after he supposedly died.
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And it was being updated by an account that was owned by Nicholas. And it didn't just stop there. Whoever was updating this account also was trying to replace the real picture of Nicholas and trying to replace it with like some photo of some random guy.
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And as all these rumors continued spreading that he faked his own death, somebody just kept deleting any mention of Nicholas alleging that he faked his own death, just wiping this account clean, just scrubbing it and changing the photo and like starting to really manipulate what this page was all about.
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So now we're back in early 2022, and the FBI is on the case, and they were 99% sure that Nicholas had faked his own death and then he had fled the United States. So they notified international agencies all about Nicholas. They even gave an old mugshot, and they gave pictures of his identifiable tattoos. Then Interpol circulated those pictures around hospitals all throughout the U.K.,
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But despite all this constant moving around where you would think that it would really impact him and maybe even set him back a little bit, people described him as being a total genius. Even a computer whiz, just so intelligent, so smart, and just very bright, and somebody with a bright future. So by his early 20s, Nicholas decided to go to Sinclair Community College in Dayton, Ohio.
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Because remember, that's where Nicholas's last known location was. And now with COVID being a huge issue, because it was at this time, they knew that he might seek care at a hospital, which is exactly what he did. Or remember what Arthur Knight did. Hospitals had been receiving notice about Nicholas, this Nicholas guy that they were trying to look for, all while Arthur was in that coma.
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So after receiving the pictures of Nicholas, hospital staff in Glasgow, Scotland, thought that this man in these photos looked suspiciously like one of their patients named Arthur. Then they saw the pictures of the tattoos, and that is what sealed the deal. Because Arthur Knight had the exact same tattoos in the exact same locations, the same ones that Nicholas Rossi had.
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So the hospital called the police, and the police confirmed that Arthur was Nicholas. And that is right when Arthur woke up from his coma, had police surrounding him, and then was arrested. Which at this point, you're probably thinking, wow, that was a freaking wild ride. But I'm glad that his cover is blown. I'm glad he was finally arrested. Now there's no way out. Like, the jig is up.
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But of course, in true Nicholas Rossi style, he was not going to go down without a fight. So he doubled down on the lie, and he insisted. He was not Nicholas Rossi. He was Arthur Knight. He was an Irish orphan who supposedly had lived in the UK his entire life. There's no way that he was Nicholas Rossi.
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And get this, it gets even better, because Arthur, and I'm saying that with air quotes if you can see me, but Arthur... went so far as to claim that the hospital staff is the one who tattooed him while he was in that coma. Because naturally, right? That's what hospitals do. They tattoo their patients to frame them for crimes that they didn't commit. I mean, get a grip. Like, you are such a loser.
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I can't. But according to him, it once again was all part of this huge nefarious plot that was masterminded by none other than David LeVette, the Utah District County Attorney who had a hand in that testing of that old rape kit that was connected to Nicholas.
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Now Arthur was alleging, he just wants to frame me, he just wants to get his guy so he had the hospital tattoo me so I look like Nicholas, I'm not him. According to Arthur, David was desperately trying to win his re-election, and he knew that by solving some old rape cases, that would really do the trick. So naturally, again, he just decided to frame some random guy from the UK.
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Arthur even claimed that David was a known human trafficker, that he was a child sex abuser, a cannibal, even a murderer. I mean, he literally threw in every possible allegation that he could, trying to like smear this guy. And talk about the most wild conspiracy theory ever. I mean, it just does not make any sense. And this is where things really, in this case, get so comical for me.
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And you're going to hear some of these interviews because if you're like me, especially if you're watching the video version, you're like, what in the actual fuck is happening? Like, what is happening? It's like, it just takes this case from, like, Lifetime movie rollercoaster crazy to, like, Sharknado crazy, okay? Where it's like, it's just not even believable, but it's real life.
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That is what makes this so insane. So nevertheless, Arthur, Arthur air quotes, was arrested, but he was released on bail. And while he was battling the legal system to avoid extradition back to the United States, Arthur went on a huge media campaign with his wife, Miranda. And I mean... huge.
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Because he was having such a struggle with this, they wanted to make sure that he could recover, therefore placing him in this coma. So when he woke up, he was just so excited to be awake, to see his wife Miranda, to be healthy, hoping he's now on the road to recovery. But what he wasn't expecting was to be surrounded by police officers around his hospital bed.
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Which, remember, we talked about Miranda a little bit, who he claimed to have married back in 2011 and said that they had dated for so long. However, it was later uncovered that they actually got married in 2020, just one week after the announcement of Nicholas's death, which, what a coincidence, right?
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Here, he studied literature, sociology, and political science.
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The two of them lived in an apartment near Glasgow University, where Arthur told the neighbors he was a theology professor. And surprise, surprise, he wasn't. But as Arthur and Miranda went on their media campaign tour, he kept insisting he wasn't Nicholas, that this was all a smear job, and that he had never even stepped foot on U.S. soil, ever. I mean, it was wild.
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Yet all the while, he couldn't provide any proof that he was this alleged Irish orphan who was born in the U.K. He couldn't present a birth certificate. He couldn't provide any proof. And he said, that's just because I moved around so much. I lost it all years ago. That's why. I'm a victim in all of this. Now, I gotta say, Arthur had quite a noticeable appearance.
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Now really quickly, I also do want to mention that back when Nicholas was just 14 years old and living in Rhode Island, he did make a lot of political connections, which I know sounds a little bit crazy because he was only 14 years old, but he worked as a house page for the House of Representatives, which basically that position is like a teenager who helps with some of the clerical work, who helps with like running little errands here and there and doing things like that.
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I mean, he looked a little different from Nicholas, to be fair. I will give him that. For one, he was in a wheelchair, and he also wore an oxygen mask all the time, which he claimed was a necessity due to the complications from COVID. He also sported this, like, short, slicked back hair, these big glasses, and he always wore these very elaborate suits and this, like, large gold jewelry.
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However, midway through his media tour, he decided to grow a long beard, claiming it was all part of his conversion to Judaism now. But honestly, everything about his appearance just kind of screamed like, I'm hiding something, I'm trying to change my identity.
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And get this, he also started saying that he was born with the name Nicholas, but that he then later changed it due to bad memories that were associated with that name.
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all the while while still insisting he was an Irish orphan, which if you're trying to pretend you're Arthur and that you're this kid who was born in the UK, you're an Irish orphan, you have all of these health issues, all these things, why are you now coming to the table and saying, well, my real legal name was Nicholas, coincidentally? Like, you are just so freaking stupid.
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So as you can imagine, many people also debated whether or not this Arthur Nicholas guy really needed that oxygen mask that he wore. Because he wore this mask so often and it wasn't even connected to an oxygen tank. And even if there was an oxygen tank on some occasions, it wasn't even turned on most of the time.
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People also suspected that he, of course, didn't need this wheelchair either, that this was all just part of his elaborate, like, new identity. Some people even claimed that they saw him walk perfectly fine without the chair.
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Now here's where we get to the interviews, because during these interviews, some journalists would even confront him with all of these accusations, saying, you know, what do you say to the allegations that you can't even stand up?
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And he would try to stand up, showing that he did need the wheelchair just to like fall back in his wheelchair, which he did stand up like he would hoist himself up out of the wheelchair being like, I can't even stand. I can't even stand. Look at this. And then he would like fall down. But I'm like, bro, you were standing. You were standing just now. Like, what do you mean?
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It's honestly laughable. It was really like he was putting on a show, just not a convincing one. And his accent also on top of it was honestly just as bad as mine just was. It sounded so forced, so unnatural that it was almost painful to listen to. And if you ask me, it sounded completely fake. And I'm not the only one that thought so. Plenty of people picked up on this phony accent.
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But here's where we get to the good stuff, guys, because don't just take my word for it. Listen for yourself and let me know what you think.
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So in doing that work, he met a lot of different lawmakers, he was exposed to different people in the political world, and he just started making a lot of connections. So now, here he was in his early 20s, going to college, getting well educated, he already was what some called a brainiac, and in 2011, he decided to do something with all of his connections.
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And remember, since the hospital had identified him because of his tattoos, many journalists were asking him to see the tattoos. Now, most of the time, he absolutely just refused to lift up his sleeves. He didn't want to show his arms. But in one interview, he did lift up his sleeve slightly, just a little bit where it showed his forearms.
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And what was crazy is the spot where Nicholas Rossi had a tattoo, Arthur's arm was completely blank. There was no tattoo. He even rubbed his arm to show that there was no makeup covering it. So, I mean, it sounded pretty convincing, right?
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Which, normally, yes, it would, but Nicholas's ex-wife Catherine came forward and she said that Nicholas had been in the process of removing his forearm tattoos for years, even while they were still married. And then, a closer look at Arthur's forearms, and it showed that he had the scars that are typically associated with tattoo removal.
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Now, at one point during this whole media circus and him trying to prove that he's Arthur, he's not Nicholas, he even agreed to get on a video interview call with Brian Coogan. And Brian is that same guy, that adult who had debated adopting 14-year-old Nicholas Rossi years and years ago. So during this interview, Brian mentioned a scar that Nicholas had above one of his eyebrows.
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And sure enough, Arthur confirmed, oh, yeah, yeah, I have the same scar, but it's all just a coincidence. And then when the conversation about Nicholas's tattoos came up, Arthur became very, very quiet, just wouldn't show his arms, wouldn't say anything. And then he abruptly ended the call.
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And more so, he decided to do something to rectify all of his past childhood experience and his horrible experience with DCYF, with foster homes, with group homes, with all of those things. So he decided to use all of his connections, all of his exposure and experience, and he decided to sue DCYF. Now, a lot of these connections that he had in the political world
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The media campaign was so public, so insane. And Arthur was so dramatic during these interviews that, again, it was to the point of just being laughable. He would fall over. And I got to say, as I'm playing this, I'm trying to clear up the audio as best as I can. But they are a little bit difficult to hear because he's wearing an oxygen mask during these interviews.
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But I've seen a comparison online for those of you who are listening to audio only and can't watch the videos. And people describe him as looking a lot like Cartman from South Park. The little short, big round head, big round body guy that kind of like can't really walk. It's so fucked up. It's so accurate. And I'm sorry, it is. I mean, this guy deserves to be shamed.
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I encourage you to watch these videos though after listening to the audio because they are insane. This is one where he like falls over being like, look, I can't stand up. I can't stand up yet. He's standing up and then his wife... whoever this person is, like pushes him back down in the wheelchair to be like, bro, quit it. You're like, the jig is up. You got to fuck down. Like, it's unbelievable.
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But listen to this.
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It was such a media frenzy, guys, and it caught so many people's attention that even more and more people started coming out of the woodwork to talk about their experiences with Nicholas. or better yet, with Arthur. And it turns out that even Arthur, this new concocted personality, also had multiple sexual allegations against him in the UK.
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Just more evidence of the similarities between Nicholas and Arthur. Then, a Canadian woman came forward with another story about Arthur. Apparently, in the spring of 2020, she was looking for somebody to help her promote her vegan lifestyle brand. And she found Arthur on a freelance website, and she was really impressed by his resume.
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were actually who pushed him to take this leap and to sue DCYF. These lawmakers knew what Nicholas went through when he was in foster care, and so they felt like he would really be the great poster child for reform with DCYF. So Nicholas took to the media, and he told his story to anybody who would listen. He was claiming some pretty horrific things.
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He claimed he was a Harvard grad, which, remember, side note, this contradicts his claim that he never stepped foot on U.S. soil. He claimed that he had a lot of experience in PR and in marketing, and that he was also, get this, an international lawyer. Which I gotta say, that is a very impressive resume, if it were real. So she hired Arthur, who ended up, of course, doing literally nothing.
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Like, zero zilch, nothing. She paid him, but he always had excuses as to why he wasn't producing results. Either he was in the hospital, his wife was in the hospital, his dog was in the hospital, his other dog was in the hospital, all until he ran out of people to be in the hospital.
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Now, at one point, she actually thought that Arthur was trying to steal her business because he was asking her for a lot of personal information, her banking information, her passport information, and eventually she just cut off all communication with him and with any business access that he had because she didn't trust him.
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She ended up paying him in total $40,000 over the course of their working relationship, and he produced nothing for her. But after she cut him off, Arthur did the exact same thing that Nicholas had done to Mary. He went right on his personal website and he started smearing her name. He started saying her company was a fraud. She was a terrible boss. Her products weren't even vegan.
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Just trying to destroy her credibility.
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And then more women came forward, saying both Arthur and Nicholas had assaulted them. It didn't matter if it was the United States or the UK. I mean, the allegations were just pouring in. And while all of this was going on, Scottish law enforcement was working to extradite Arthur to the United States. Arthur wasn't making it easy, though.
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He would miss court hearings, he would constantly fire lawyers, he would claim he couldn't make the hearings because he was too sick, and in the summer of 2022, he ended up being admitted to the hospital before one of his hearings. However, he was arrested at that hospital after he threatened and attacked the hospital staff.
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He was fined 400 euros and multiple doctors testified that Arthur was faking all of his illnesses. Also, that he didn't have any sort of problem that would cause him to use oxygen or need a wheelchair. So following this incident, he was placed in jail. And in the summer of 2022, a judge required him to submit his DNA and fingerprints so that he could prove his identity.
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in November of 2022, in a surprise to absolutely no one, it was released that Arthur's fingerprints and Arthur's DNA matched that of Nicholas Rossi. Arthur Knight was in fact Nicholas. I mean, this guy, I mean, I gotta give him credit, right? Like he's got a lot of balls on him to like pull this off or try to even pull this off. I never would have the strength or willpower to do that.
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He was saying that while he was in foster care, he was abused and beaten daily, not only by his foster parents, but also the other foster kids. He alleged that in 2002, DCYF couldn't even find him a home. So because of that, they ended up putting him in a program where he spent days in just this like sterile DCYF building.
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But still, another year passed until Nicholas was finally extradited back to the United States. This was in December of 2023. He was being tried for two rape cases in Utah, and he was booked into a Utah County jail in January of 2024. And even though his literal DNA was a match for Nicholas, this guy still tried to say that he wasn't Nicholas. He was Arthur. He's the victim. He's framed.
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It's not him.
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And when he went to court, he even insisted that the judge call him Arthur, even throwing temper tantrums over it. But the judge was obviously like, uh, no, I'm not gonna do that, I'm not gonna call you Arthur, you're literally Nicholas, so that's what I'm gonna call you. And for a while, Nicholas said that he was going to defend himself in court, which... Thank you.
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where he slept at nights in a homeless shelter, he wasn't allowed to go to school, and really he just painted this picture of truly a terrible life.
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... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...... CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG CG, C, C, C, C, C, C, C, C, C, C,B. CG. CG. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. B Let's go.
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He said this life was so terrible too because kids would steal his stuff, they would threaten him, they would assault him, and honestly, if all of this was true, it's really no wonder that Nicholas was trying to reform DCYF because no child should ever have to live in any of those conditions or go through any sort of torment like that.
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Now, Nicholas also claimed that he knew a ton of what he called inside information about DCYF. And he said that that's the real reason that they sent him out of the state so many times. He said that they were scared that he was going to reveal way too much to the public.
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Now, Arthur had absolutely no idea why the police were there to see him. He hadn't done anything wrong. He was a normal guy. I mean, yes, he had a bit of a rough upbringing. He was from Dublin, Ireland, and he was orphaned at a very young age. But other than that, he didn't have much of a past.
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So because of that, they retaliated and they prohibited him from contacting any friends, family members, lawyers, or really anybody who could help him.
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Except as you can imagine, the Rhode Island DCYF denied all of it. They said Nicholas was a liar. There wasn't any abuse at all. Yet despite that, Nicholas still had a lot of lawmakers backing him, encouraging him to push for change. And he also gained a lot of media attention and public support.
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But despite having all these people's support, even with the well-known government officials, Nicholas wasn't totally successful with his lawsuit. However, the two of them did end up reaching a settlement agreement, and the details about the agreement are a little bit unclear.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
There are some reports that DCYF paid Nicholas $70,000, while others say that the lawsuit ended up being dismissed because DCYF waived a large amount of medical debt that Nicholas had, some amount like upwards of $200,000. So unclear, but settled nonetheless. And still, throughout the whole process, DCYF denied all of Nicholas's allegations.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
I mean, a speeding ticket here and there, but nothing that would warrant the police coming into his hospital room and surrounding his bed when he just woke up from this three-month-long coma. He looked at his wife Miranda, who he initially started dating back in 2011—they got married in 2020— And he had a look of confusion on his face. What was going on? Why were they here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And we've seen in many other cases that I've covered that child welfare agencies do drop the ball sometimes, I mean, in terrible ways that bring so much harm to children. But the more that people started looking into Nicholas and Nicholas's claims, the more that they wondered how truthful he was with his allegations. and also in a lot of other things.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Because as it turns out, Nicholas wasn't just this innocent whiz kid who had everything and everyone working against him and he was just this perpetual victim, but Nicholas was known to be a very difficult kid.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
When he was suing DCYF, he made it sound like he was the one who had to move around so much because the reason stemming and rooted in him having so much abuse, all these other people just hurting him, inflicting harm on him, stealing from him, just again, a perpetual victim. But as it turns out, the reason that Nicholas had to move around so much was because his behavior caused a lot of problems.
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254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
At an early age, Nicholas was diagnosed with behavior and mental health issues. And he was always hitting his mom, his siblings, his grandma, even kids at school. And whenever somebody tried to intervene and help and solve this problem, he would just yell at them. Sometimes he would even spit at them. So he was just a lot to handle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And his behavior escalated and got so bad that he ended up being placed in a psychiatric unit at a hospital. And while he was there, the doctors diagnosed him with attention deficit disorder and also narcissistic personality disorder. But then, like we were seeing with so many cycles before, his behavior just continued to escalate.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
It got worse, it got worse, it got so bad, he was threatening and physically attacking staff and other people at the hospital. So because of that, he ended up being thrown out. So in that instance, he went right back home. But then he started causing issues all over again.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
And he ended up causing so much discord in his home that DCYF took him away from his home because he was the one creating an unsafe living environment for his siblings. And this was all before his mother surrendered him to the foster care system. So clearly a very heavy pattern of this that stems back to a very young age.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Now, remember how I mentioned that people did refer to Nicholas as this computer whiz, this genius? Well, apparently some of that was true to a certain degree because Nicholas knew how smart he was and he also knew how to use that to his advantage. He was a known liar. He was a known manipulator and he would threaten people to do whatever it was that he wanted them to do.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
For example, when he was working as a page in the state house as a teenager, he ended up growing close with one of Rhode Island's representatives named Brian Coogan. Brian slowly got to know Nicholas, and he was familiar with the fact that he had had a, you know, somewhat turbulent home life, to say the least.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
So Brian felt really bad for Nicholas, and he was impressed with all the work that Nicholas did as the house page. He was hardworking, he was, you know, attentive, he would get things done despite all that he was going through, So when Nicholas came to Brian and asked him if he would adopt him, Brian really wanted to say yes. And in fact, he even started the adoption process.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
But then he stopped almost as soon as he began. Because a judge warned Brian that adopting Nicholas just would not be a good idea. Brian was already married. He already had kids of his own. And the judge said that by bringing Nicholas into his home, it would completely turn things upside down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Did they have the wrong person? I mean, surely he had to have done something terrible to warrant the police officers coming bedside at his hospital. But he hadn't done anything. And you know what? Maybe Arthur Knight really hadn't done anything wrong. But the police insisted that this person lying there in that hospital bed, it wasn't Arthur at all. They said he was somebody else.
Serialously with Annie Elise
254: The Cringy and UNHINGED Case of Nicholas Rossi: From Most Wanted to Most Embarrassing
Yet Brian was under the impression that Nicholas was the one getting beat up constantly while he was in the foster care system. However, it turned out that that wasn't true. And the judge, of course, couldn't give exact details of what Nicholas had done, but he did say that he had evidence that Nicholas wasn't the one getting beaten up. Instead, he was the one doing the beating.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It is the Ruby Frankie Jodi Hildebrand case. They are the two people, alleged cult leaders. Ruby was a huge, huge YouTube star. She was a family vlogger. She had millions of followers, made tons of money. They were, again, as I said, like cult leaders together, cult members, allegedly. and they were arrested and charged with horrific crimes against Ruby's children.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So that is our gift. At the time, both of these children were under 10 years old. And based on footage that Ruby posted of them, they just seemed like normal kids. There were videos like this where Ruby was seen harshly scolding R for simply leaving his socks outside and being made to do push-ups.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Even though just these few examples seem harsh enough, really the most extreme punishments were directed at Chad. In many videos, Chad's parents would embarrass him by reading his text messages out loud at the dinner table and making him discuss things that should have been kept private.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
However, it was during 2020 when Chad was sent away that people started becoming ever more concerned with Ruby and Kevin's parenting. During the time that he was away, Ruby never explained why Chad was gone. But it was discovered that they had sent him away to a controversial wilderness camp for troubled teenagers.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
These types of camps have been heavily scrutinized in recent years after people came out with horror stories of mistreatment, abuse, and even torture. But even after Chad returned home, he was still forced to sleep on a beanbag in the middle of the living room, and he had his bed and his bedroom completely taken away for seven months.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, since all of this has come out, there have been quite a few updates along the way. Ruby's children have spoken out, one child wrote a book, her husband has spoken out because the question that was on everybody's mind is like, okay, where the hell was this guy this whole time? Why did he allow this to happen? Because
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
All of these examples and more caused there to be several reports by concerned viewers to DCFS and even a petition with nearly 18,000 signatures calling for an investigation into Kevin and Ruby for the alleged harm toward their children. However, at the time, all the reports were claimed to have been unfounded.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It seemed like there was an even bigger spotlight on the Frankies and on their parenting, and their videos started becoming more and more sporadic. They went from posting every day to every other day, and then just stopped being on a regular schedule altogether. After this, Ruby attempted to start a clothing company called RubyDoo, but it ended up being largely unsuccessful.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
By 2022, there were no new videos being posted to the 8 Passengers channel, but Ruby wasn't gone from the internet or YouTube completely. After her unsuccessful clothing line, Ruby began attending life coach and therapy sessions with a company called Connections, and then she eventually started making appearances on the business's YouTube channel.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
called Connections Classroom with the founder, Jody Hildebrandt. Jody was briefly mentioned in the video where Chad discussed his wilderness camp punishment and the loss of his bed privileges, and he referred to her as his therapist.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So why was Ruby developing a relationship with a woman who previously had her son as a client? Well, it turns out that Jodi wasn't only Chad's therapist at one point, but that Ruby and Kevin sought help from her as well when they were having problems in their marriage.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
54-year-old Jodi Hildebrandt is a quote-unquote therapist who, like the Franke family, is from Utah and is a member of the LDS Church. She was married for a short time in the 90s and had two children before she divorced, and she has been single ever since.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
spoiler alert, he ended up moving out of the home and kind of just like, in my opinion, like wrote his kids off in a sense to where he wasn't really concerned with what was happening to them behind closed doors. But I'll get into that later. And there have been more updates because now there's allegations stemming from one of Ruby's children's recent books, not recent, but only book,
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
In 2009, Jodi was placed on a list of recommended therapists for people in the LDS Church to seek help for various issues, like marriage counseling and addiction counseling. Specifically, the LDS church views and viewing no matter how often as an addiction that needs repentance and therapy.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
However, several clients who received services from Jodi claimed that she would relay their personal business discussed during therapy with church officials. One of these allegations was actually proven and her license ended up being put on probation for 18 months.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So after the 8 Passengers YouTube channel video started fizzling out, Ruby became a life coach and listed as a certified mental fitness trainer for Jodi's Connections company.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It seemed like Ruby and Jodi were very like-minded individuals because when she began appearing in videos on the channel, a lot of the messages were very reminiscent of how she already was in the past, just much more extreme.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
website jodyhildebrandt.com thoroughly explains what connections is and what it strives to do for its clients it says that the core teachings of connections is that for a person to achieve a true connection with another human being they must not be in distortion distortion is something that jody came up with referring to people being addicted to something like work shopping games sleep
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Social media, driving, receiving compliments, exercise, eating, drugs, alcohol, sex, hobbies, or even their spouse. Really anything. Distortion can also be living in shame and denial, knowing that you are not enough, being codependent in your relationships, living in lust, being overly sexually attracted to your spouse, and controlling and manipulating others.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Literally, you could find the definition to fit almost any single situation, which my guess and my suspicion is that was her goal, because then you could tap into a client who is experiencing anything. Jodi explains that everyone is in distortion to some degree, but that she can help you to overcome distortion and live in truth.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Jodi teaches that there are three core principles which must be developed in order to truly connect with anyone and to avoid distortion. She says that boundaries need to be set to distance yourself from people in distortion so you are not drawn in with them. The three core principles of connections are impeccable honesty, rigorous personal responsibility, and humility.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She encourages clients to refer family members to join the program so that they can also experience true connection. Jodi teaches that the truth and the three principles are the only way to true happiness in relationships. Members of the group develop a bond by sharing vulnerable experiences with each other and validating each other's experiences.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
As they continue these patterns, they distance themselves from their families. Family and friends are confused about this new term, distortion, and a whole slew of other new terminology taught by Jodi as the only and absolute way to connect. They are then encouraged to attend classes so they too can learn how to not be in distortion.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
where she's alleging what we have long suspected, that Ruby and Jodi were in fact lovers together. And the reason that that piece of information is important in the context before I go into everything is because Jodi was somebody who was very adamant against same-sex relationships. And in one of my very early interviews, episodes about Jodi.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
If their friends or family ask questions or raise concerns about the teachings, the student often immediately makes a phone call to their connections support group to avoid being drawn in to that distortion themselves. If the family and friends don't learn these new skills for connection, they will be cut off in the relationship for being in distortion.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
In addition to the Connections 101 classes, members attend group or weekly meetings with Jodi and other students to discuss in a more intimate setting how they were in distortion the previous week. The revenue from these group and connections classes that Jodi has made was conservatively estimated to exceed $30,000 a month.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, the other concerning component is that Jodi heavily weaves in her teachings and her truths with the teachings of the LDS church. Cough, cough, Lori Vallow. Like how Christians capitalize pronouns referring to God. In Connections, truth is capitalized as if to signify that her truth is the same or just as important as God himself.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So the connection's truths in regards to relationship also carried over into parenthood as well. And Ruby has even blatantly stated that she loves these truths more than her own children. And she doesn't love her children unconditionally. Which, let's just say, I think most of us could already tell. I love principals.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It's just so disturbing to hear someone literally say those words and talk about these made-up truths as if they are God. Ruby and Jodi would discuss all sorts of topics, but I think the ones pertaining to children and parenting disturbed people the most. If an adult wants to do culty stuff, believe whatever they want, do a bunch of nonsense, that is fine.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But it's when children have ideas and toxic behavior forced on them that it becomes a bigger issue. They don't have a choice. They aren't able to just leave.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I don't, I'm probably going to butcher this expression, but what's that expression like? Doth protests too much or however it goes. I don't know how it goes. Don't come for me later. But I kind of said that in my episode. I was like, why is she so against men? Why does she have this burning hatred towards men? Is it because she has some sort of passive aggressiveness because she is upset?
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Okay, so I think I've told you guys before that I'm trying to really make this year my healthy year. I'm trying to focus on wellness, on eating right. I've been obsessed with finding ways to eat healthier, but without feeling like I'm missing out because I'll be honest, I love carbs, I love sandwiches, I love quesadillas, all that good stuff.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But that is exactly why Hero Bread has been like such a game changer in the space of food for me. I've talked to you about them before, too, because I honestly can't get enough. They've also been a life hack for me with my kids. And let me just explain it because I want you to imagine for a moment making like the perfect breakfast sandwich. You know what I'm talking about.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Not a McMuffin, none of that. I mean, even though those are good. But like fluffy eggs, crispy bacon, melty good cheese on like a soft, chewy bagel. But one that only has four net carbs, zero grams of sugar, and 19 grams of protein. That is what Hero Bread does.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Or picture yourself rolling up, you know, Taco Tuesday, making the best tacos ever with tortillas that won't completely destroy you or your goals. It is insane how good this stuff is. I think I told you too, I get their Hawaiian rolls because my daughter, Emmy, I don't know what happened, but she is just like obsessed with Hawaiian rolls.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I swear, she can chief an entire sleeve in like two sittings. And so when I saw that Hero Bread makes these, I was like, oh, 100% we're getting them because I can't keep doing like, you know, the other ones. Like this is like actually okay for her.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And I was so skeptical at first too, because let's be honest, anything that is advertised as healthy, especially when it's bread, it usually tastes like cardboard. But Hero Bread, it is soft. It is fluffy. And honestly, if you didn't tell me that it was low carb, I would never even know. And my kids don't even know. and they're the pickiest eaters ever.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And the fact that they have everything, sliced bread, tortillas, bagels, even those dinner rolls or Hawaiian rolls, I mean, it means that I never have to give up on my favorite foods or my kids' favorite foods. So if you've been trying to eat better, but you refuse to give up the good stuff and you want stuff that tastes...
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
like the good stuff you need to try hero bread and right now they're giving you 10 off just go to hero.co and use code ae at checkout trust me you will not regret it i think i have also posted like my hero bread hauls on my stories over on instagram so if you want to actually see this stuff for yourself go check it out again that's hero.co and use code ae for 10 off
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
This is Connections According to Jodi.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So that was a clip from the Eternal Core Conference in April of 2020. In this, Jodi describes how she got to this belief system.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Jodi grew up as the sixth of seven children, and she described her parents as emotionally shut down, and that she didn't realize that as a child, but she does now, saying, and I quote, they were emotionally completely not available for me or for any of the other children, and so chaos went on in our house a lot, and none of us were really allowed to emote other than to get angry.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So she learned how to be really nice, kind, helpful, gracious.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Because a lot of the time she would like,
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
tell some of the men that she was counseling underneath her what I believe is a cult saying how they had addictions to adult material how they weren't good men how the wife should leave them she always took the wife side which is fine if you want to always take the woman's side whatever but all of those things mixed together I was like something else is going on here like why does she try to wedge her way in between all these couples and always paint the man as like some deviant and
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It's like, tell me more. The other principles to live with include characters of truth, humbleness, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, or else you are disconnected and you manifest control, aggression, and anxiety. She goes on to say that she's learned that the only thing she can control are her thoughts, feelings, and behavioral choices, and that she cannot control anything else.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And then she uses an example where she talks about a parent-child relationship. Oh, I wish I could control them.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
which means distorting the truth. So by controlling others, that is distortion or distortion of truth. And then she says that each and every one of us is responsible for learning these principles for ourselves.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And then if you have charge over anyone else, such as children, grandchildren, clients, et cetera, you have a responsibility to teach them these principles too, so that they too can be released from distortion. Okay. Now this next part is actually particularly interesting because of how Jodi says that God told her about distortion.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Every single one of us goes into distortion. On August 30th, 2023, a man called 911 after a little boy showed up at his doorstep hungry and thirsty. The little boy who identified himself as R said that he came from Jodi. For this man and his wife to realize that R needed help and he needed it fast. So that's when they called 911.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Come to find out with this new kind of revelation, and it hasn't been 100% confirmed, but when I read the passages to you, I mean, it is all but confirmed. There were things in the book written about how like they would have all these candles in the rooms together, how Ruby would emerge from the bedroom all like steamy and sweaty. And I mean, reading between the lines,
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, as the police were coming into the neighborhood, they were stopped by Jodi in her car, who said that she was out looking for a boy. So the police told her that they were out looking for a boy as well, that same boy. And Jodi was basically like, oh, okay, I'll wait at my house.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Then once they got to Jodi's neighbor's house and actually laid eyes on R, it was beyond clear that he needed help and he needed it quickly. They began cutting the duct tape off of his legs and they moved him into the ambulance. The smell of flesh was all that the officers could smell, and the wounds, far beyond what most had ever seen, was all that they could see.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
When an officer asked R how he got those wounds, R told him that they were caused by ropes that Jody and his mom Ruby had put on him. He also told the officer that they would put cayenne pepper and honey on those wounds as a dressing.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And guys, some of the pictures that were taken of the children's injuries when they were at the hospital are so, so graphic that everybody's been blurring them out, even mainstream media, even 2020, everybody, because they are truly horrific. So I'm gonna describe them, but I'm not gonna show them because I don't think they need to be out there personally.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
You can see where the restraints were on the ankles and you can see the skin on the legs are completely chapped
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
it's raw you can start to see muscle below it it is like it has literally disintegrated the skin you can see the shoulder blades sticking out of r completely as though he is so malnourished and underweight it looks like literal wings coming out of his back that's how much they are protruding
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
and then there is a wrist wound where to me it almost looks like a burn even though I know it's not maybe partially a rope burn but it's like a slit a thick a not even a slit a slit's the wrong word guys a gash on his wrist and it's so deep that you can see muscle you can see tissue you can see fat and it is like gosh I want to say it's like an inch wide something like it is so deep
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
horrific when i saw it for the first time i'm not exaggerating guys i did start gagging it is so awful and this is what this boy had all over his body when he was brave enough to run away from jody's house he is honestly a freaking hero in my eyes so as r was taken to the hospital the focus now was shifting to finding the other two sisters which are said were still in the house
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, you know, I'm not really sure what Jodi thought was going to happen in this moment, but boy was she acting surprised and like nothing was going on when the police arrived.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It's what we all suspected, I think, for so long. And I think that it has now been validated. So that's just a little bit of the backstory. But the reason I say that is because there have been a lot of updates along the way, even though I have talked about this case before. So my most recent update episode came out probably, I don't know, maybe six or eight weeks ago.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So Jodi told the police that Ruby was on her way back from Springville, which was where she actually lived and happened to be four hours away. She said that there was only one other child in the house. So she stood outside on the phone with her attorney while the police searched her house thoroughly.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And it seemed like she was more concerned about her attorney missing his flight and also some Airbnb guests being freaked out than she was about what was actually happening.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Yes.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
There's a little girl.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And yes, you heard that right, guys. Apparently, there were Airbnb guests staying inside this home while all of this was going on. While R and E were being held and tortured while guests were staying in the home. I mean, it is bizarre. She also appeared to be crying during some of the search. According to R, he had two sisters in the house, but the police were only able to find one child.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She was hiding inside a closet in the bathroom. Now, initially, it seemed like they thought that the child was a boy. But after talking to R while he was at the hospital, they learned that he actually had a little sister whose name was E. And her head had been shaved. That's why there was a mistake where they thought that it was a little boy at first.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And it was just a mini bonus episode. It was right after the book was released. And I just wanted to give you guys the takeaways of what came out of that book. What were the big revelations? What did we learn?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And R had told the police that he hadn't seen her in over a month. Now, when they approached E, E was super scared and she would not come out of this closet. While she was in the closet, different medics and officers tried their best to support her and let her know that she was safe. They were officers. They were there to help.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She requested pizza, so they brought her a personal sized pizza and also a drink. She ate all of that and she was still hungry. So then they ordered a large pizza and she went on to eat two slices of that. They continued trying to get E to come out of the closet so that she could go to the hospital to be looked at, to be treated, to see what was going on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But she told them she was worried that Jodi didn't want her to go to the hospital. And she also said that she was scared that they would give her vaccines and that, quote, vaccines kill you. But finally, nearly after six hours after that 911 call had been made, they were finally able to convince E to go to the hospital.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And a lot of people responded to that episode asking for the deep dive because they either had no idea what this case was all about or they didn't know the full context of the case and how deep it really went, all the way stemming back to the YouTube days, why Ruby was kind of almost canceled by the public because of the content she was putting on YouTube, where she would share not only the most intimate details about her life, her family's life, her children's life,
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
During the time that they were trying to convince E to go to the hospital, Ruby had shown up at the house, and they placed her in handcuffs. Now, what's so weird about this is she didn't seem phased at all about what was happening with her children. She seemed more like she was annoyed and irritated more than anything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So eventually, both Ruby and Jodi were taken into the police station for further questioning. During that, Jodi tried to manipulate the police.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And Ruby, well, she completely refused to speak at all, which, yes, technically it is her right, but she literally didn't even answer if she had children or not. She just went mute, would not speak.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Thank you. Once the news of the arrest spread, a lot of people were wondering how exactly we got here. Lastly, how did this overly strict but seemingly somewhat normal mom, who despite her controversial parenting decisions, never really had any indicators that she would physically torture her kids? So how did she allow this to happen? And how the heck did we get here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Also, how in the world did these women think that they could ever get away with this? Did Ruby's husband, Kevin, buy into this as well? And speaking of Kevin, you might be wondering where the hell he was when all of this was happening and also what his reaction was after Ruby and Jodi's arrest. Well, he was interviewed. Listen to this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But she would also share her methods of punishment, the husband's methods of punishment, how they would treat their children, not giving them food when they wanted food or forgot their food when they went to school, ripping a door off the hinges, making a child sleep on a beanbag for months at a time. I mean, the list goes on and on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So as she was like just putting all of this content out there for the world to see, which I'm going to play for you a lot of those clips. the public who was consuming this, who was following her, which she had millions of followers, remember, was kind of like, what is happening here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And it just over time continued to escalate, get worse and worse and worse until then they kind of just went off the radar. They stopped posting. They stopped uploading. And that's something we talk about in a lot of cases regarding children in a little bit different of a sense. We always talk about
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
After being interviewed, Kevin was never charged, but still the question of course remained, was he going to sympathize with Ruby or was he going to stick by his children?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
All right, you guys are my besties, so I'm going to get a little vulnerable with you for a minute and maybe a little bit TMI, but I feel like there should be no shame in this because I want to talk about something that so many of us have to deal with, but we either don't always realize it or we don't want to talk about it, and that's hormone imbalance.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I'm talking about the things like unexplained weight fluctuations, constant stress, low energy, bloating, low libido, acne, just feeling off, not feeling like yourself. I started going through it a little under a year ago and I was trying everything. I was trying like the, what are they? The NAD injections.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
When kids are going to school, okay, when they're in elementary school or middle school, whatever it is, and they start having a lot of absences and then a lot of unexcused absences. And there's no reason as to why they're not going to school. But then they slowly get removed from school. Then they're homeschooled. Then they stop showing up for homeschool classes or online courses.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I actually got a pellet like put in my ass guys that had hormones to try to like get me regulated because all my levels were way out of whack. I think my testosterone level was like at a seven and it should have been way, way higher. But anyway, my point is, it's not our fault. The number of hormone disruptions in our environment and our diets is just wild, and 80% of women are affected by it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So I was so excited when I got the opportunity to partner with O Positive because I started using flow endocrine superfood, and I love it. It's a daily superfood drink that supports your endocrine system, which is basically like your body's hormone control center that helps control hormonal imbalance, all the healthy good stuff, all those things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I mean, think greens plus multivitamins plus hormone balance all in one. It also helps with cortisol levels, gut health, weight management, and even stress response. all in this delicious strawberry lemonade drink. And honestly, I felt the difference way faster than I expected, and truthfully, way more than any of those pellets ever did for me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Personally, my opinion, I'm not a doctor, but I think it's a scam. This was such a difference compared to that. So if you're tired of feeling sluggish, bloated, or just not yourself, this is your sign to take control of your health. Take proactive care of your health and head to opositive.com slash AE or enter AE at checkout so that you get 25% off your first purchase.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
That's O-P-O-S-I-T-I-V dot com slash AE for 25% off. Trust me, you are going to feel so much better. Let's kill the stigma, guys. I go through it. If you're going through it, check out opositive.com slash AE.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And then they're withdrawing from school. Then the neighbors don't see them. It's almost like you can see this pattern. And it's this blueprint, in my opinion, of abuse where you slowly start pulling the children out of not even the public eye like it was for Ruby's case, but out of anyone's line of sight.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Because you don't want to risk or jeopardize being found out, being exposed, somebody seeing a bruise, somebody asking a question, somebody noticing that the child... doesn't quite have the light behind their eyes anymore. So you pull them away from any opportunity where you could be exposed. And that is what happened with Ruby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
They stopped posting, they shut the channel down, even though people were already kind of canceling her in a loose way. And then it went almost dark. That's also when the husband, Kevin, moved out. That's when Jodi moved in with Ruby. They were bouncing back and forth between Ruby's house, Jodi's house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Jodi at her mega mansion had this underground banks-type cellar vault situation where she literally held these children captive. And I say that all alleged. Do your own research. When you see what I show you, you're probably going to come to the same conclusion, but, you know, I want to cover my ass here a little bit, so I'll show you and you come to your own conclusion yourself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But the few people in their lives who didn't support Ruby from the get-go were her oldest daughter Sherry and Ruby's sisters. In fact, Sherry had been trying to get her siblings taken away well before R ever escaped. And Sherry was the reason people had even started to find out that something was going down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So she had made an Instagram story that said, quote, And in that, there was a picture that showed a police officer holding a gun on the sidewalk outside of their Springville home. And then over the next couple of days, she kept posting. In the first post, she said, quote, Today has been a big day. Me and my family are so glad justice is being served.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
We've been trying to tell the police and CPS for years about this, and we're so glad they finally decided to step up. Now it was obvious that Kevin was not happy about Sherry speaking out, and that the two of them had a very strained relationship. And two days after Ruby's arrest, Kevin was actually trying to get his own daughter Sherry arrested for burglary.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Sherry had gone to their family house, and she had taken his, Ruby's, and Chad's passports, MacBook computers, journals, and she ended up giving everything over to the police, who then gave it back to Kevin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But when he picked up the stuff from the police, he made it clear that he wanted his own daughter arrested for burglary, which just further seemed to show his support towards Ruby and not the children. She was trying to show evidence. She was trying to help her siblings. He was trying to keep it hush-hush.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And what I think is really interesting about this, too, is in one of the first conversations that Kevin and Ruby had after Ruby was arrested, one of the things that she asks Kevin is, do you think the police are going to try to talk to Sherry? As if they knew that Sherry would blow the lid off of this whole thing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Within a few days of the arrests, there was a shelter hearing in juvenile court regarding Ruby and Kevin's four minor children. It was a hearing to determine who the children should be placed with. And according to witnesses and reporters, during this hearing, Ruby made some extremely, extremely disturbing allegations against her son R.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Ruby accused him of inappropriately touching other children, including E, and even said that he encouraged her to touch other children as well. She said that he disguised this behavior as a, quote, padding game, and said that he confessed to touching 20 different people, including neighbors and various family members. She also claimed that he is addicted to potty.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
and that he has been viewing it since the age of three. So when this allegation came out, of course, a lot of people started wondering, you know, if this alleged touching has been going on for years and for so long, and there are so many victims, why didn't she as the parent get her child help or report it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
You know, instead of having her friend tie the kids up in the basement and starve them and abuse them. Also, many people have pointed out that if a child is looking at explicit content from the age of three, then that is a parent issue, not a child issue.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
No three-year-old knows how to search those topics, and if they happened upon them by accident at three years old, they wouldn't even have any idea what was going on. Now other people have wondered... Why a three-year-old would even be left alone with any type of device long enough to be able to intentionally view that kind of content?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But anyway, sorry, this was such a long-winded intro. My whole point in saying all of that is that so many of you requested the deep dive for whatever reason or another. So today, what I want to do is I want to go through the entire case.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It doesn't make any sense, especially when you consider that Ruby pretty much stuck a camera in her children's faces from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep. So when was R supposedly able to do all of this?
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Others have also pointed out that Kevin and Ruby had cameras like nest surveillance cameras all over their house for security and to also capture candid moments to then use on their channel. So surely, if he was compulsively looking at all of this from the age of three, they would have known.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Not to mention her other children have had their doors, bedrooms, beds, and entire lives taken away for much less. Or was this yet another thing that Jodi, quote, helped R realize? Then, in November of 2023, Kevin filed for divorce.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Initially, Kevin's attorney, Randy Kester, said that Kevin refuses to sling mud and point fingers, this after the accusations that were made that he could have saved his children. His attorney spoke out on multiple news outlets to give Kevin's side of the story.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Start to finish, their rise to fame, what first happened, when people noticed things, why he moved out, the cult, the allegations, the arrests, the sentencing, the book, the lesbian allegations, all of it. Because you know I'm a fan of having things in one solid place so you don't have to listen to 500 different episodes to piece it all together. So that's what I'm here to do.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
In mid-December, Ruby pled guilty. As a part of her plea deal, she would be required to plead guilty to four of the six counts of child abuse. She also would be required to testify against Jodi and spend one to 15 years in prison for each of those four counts. A little over a week after she did plead guilty, Jodi ended up taking the exact same plea deal as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So what exactly did they plead guilty to? So according to court documents, RF was forced to do physical tasks for hours and days at a time. This included wall sits, carrying boxes full of books up and down stairs, and working outside. Eventually, RF was forced to do outside labor without shoes and in the summer heat. He was to stand in the direct sunlight for several days.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
He was forced to remain outside at all hours of the day and night for extended periods of time. These actions resulted in repeated and serious sunburns with blisters and sloughing skin. RF was denied water for several of the days that he was required to remain in the summer heat too, and then he was punished when he secretly, quote, secretly, consumed water.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
He was denied sufficient food, and when given food, he was given very plain meals such as rice and chicken, while others in the house ate regular and more flavorful meals. He was isolated from other people and denied all forms of entertainment, including books, notebooks, and electronics. And it gets worse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
After he attempted to run away the first time in July, his hands and feet were regularly bound. The bindings included being tied to his mother, Ruby, and also to weights. Now, many times the bindings included using two sets of handcuffs— one on his wrists and one on his ankles.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
At times, he would be lying on his stomach, and ropes were used to tie the two sets of handcuffs together so that his arms and lower legs were lifted off the ground, which, from my understanding, it means that he was essentially hogtied with handcuffs. It is absolutely barbaric and disgusting.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
The bindings also caused injuries to his wrists and his ankles where the handcuffs had cut through the skin and actually damaged the muscle tissue. These injuries were treated with homeopathic remedies and then covered with duct tape. Then, the bindings were placed on top of the duct tape.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I'm here to pull it all together for you so you can be fully caught up. And another big reason why I wanted to do this episode, in addition to the request for the deep dive, is because Hulu came out with a documentary that released on February 27th, and it was about Ruby Frankie, and it was called The Devil in the Family.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Specific instances of abuse that was committed by Ruby herself against her son included kicking him while she was wearing boots, holding his head underwater, and cutting off oxygen by placing her hands over his mouth and nose. The abuse began in May, and it escalated throughout the summer months.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Additionally, Ruby and Jodi regularly sought to indoctrinate Ara and convinced him that he was evil and possessed, and also that he needed to willingly be obedient to avoid punishments. I mean, sick, sick, sick. Now, for her younger child, who is going by the initials in this document, E.F.,
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
In addition to also being bound and tied, she was subjected to the same treatment as her brother, with the tasks, the water, being outside, and not getting any food. She was also repeatedly told that she was evil and possessed, and that the punishments were necessary for her to be obedient and to repent.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And these things were being done to her all in order to help her, again, according to Ruby and Jodi. EF was convinced, too, that she was evil and that she needed to go through these things in order for her to repent. It's heartbreaking. She was forced to work outside in the heat barefoot, and she was also forced to run barefoot on dirt roads for extended periods of time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Her feet were repeatedly injured and she was repeatedly sunburned. When examined on August 30th when the arrests first happened, these wounds were apparent by scabs, blisters, and sloughing skin. It is so cruel, so disgusting, and guilty or not, whether she's accepting responsibility or not, it is inexcusable. It is absolutely barbaric.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So when the police searched Jodi's house, they collected a shit ton of evidence. First off, they took photos of everything in the house. And when you see the photos of the house, it is very, very eerie. The house barely looks lived in. It's almost like 80% of the house was just completely empty. Now, it is a 9,000 square foot home, so it's a lot of space to fill.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
But still, it also makes sense now when you think of the Airbnb guests who were staying there at the same time that these kids were literally being held captive. It was a lot of space. They could have been on an entirely different side of the house. Now some of these photos throughout the house also showed a few different wound stations.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And I cover a lot of documentaries or docuseries or dramatizations, and one of the common things we always talk about is how so much information is left out. And I think that that's for a couple reasons. I think, one, it's very difficult to fit all of that information into a one-hour episode.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now what I mean by this is there were like little makeshift setups where there were these huge bowls full of cayenne pepper, honey, this like mixture that they had made, gauze, saran wrap, and band-aids.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
there were ropes shackles and duct tape all around the house which were obviously used to tie the kids up there were also pictures of the weights that were used to tie the kids down and many of the ropes and the shackles were found in what looks to be a panic room it's an underground concrete garage type basement area
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
And the door to gain access to it is this huge lock that almost looks like a large safe kind of, almost like a bank safe. Like it's this huge safe door that is literally the size of a normal door. It's crazy. And inside there, there was a small mattress, a toilet, a microwave, and a sink. Then probably worst of all was the discovery of Ruby's journal entries.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly. It's me, Annie Elise, your true crime BFF, and I am here to break down another case for you. We are going into a super big deep dive today, so I just want you all to get ready.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, I went through the journal entries. It was over 60 pages, guys, and I'm not even sure she was being truthful in there about everything that she was accusing the kids of doing because she does accuse them of doing a lot in these entries, but she admitted to some pretty insane things throughout it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
A lot of the journal was redacted for the protection of the children, but what is available and what was distributed was enough to make anybody nauseous. And I'm going to take you through just a couple of the journal entries that stuck out to me. On July 1, she wrote, quote, R is to stay outside, sleep outside, only come in to go to the bathroom and shower.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
On July 9, the day before R's birthday, she wrote, quote, R turns 12 tomorrow. I never envisioned him being 12 and still pooping and peeing himself. Satanic choices lead one to becoming destitute even in the most affluential homes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Which, no, Ruby, usually if a child is pooping and peeing himself, it is caused by, I don't know, maybe something you're doing, like starvation, like abuse, like all of these other things. So then the next day she writes about R not knowing that it's his birthday. And then she calls him a compulsive liar. And she says, quote,
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I think, too, a lot of these big networks are worried of litigation, and they can't really come on the mic as casually as I can saying allegedly this and my opinion that and tell you all of the things that they want to share with you but can't because they want to protect themselves from litigation in a bigger sense because they're a big network. Not saying I'm welcoming litigation. I'm not.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Then she talks about how E is better behaved with Jodi, and says that she gave her a pixie haircut and adds in, quote, On that same day, she admits in her journal that she told R to stand in the sun with his sun hat and that he said no, so she pushed him into the sun. When he came out of the sun, she pushed him back in with a cactus poker.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She said, quote, when I poke his back to get in the sun, R doesn't even flinch. I poke him in the neck. He is in a trance and doesn't appear to feel anything. Jodi taps him on the cheeks to wake him up. She talks about how her and Jodi both pushed him into the pool and then alluded to him having the devil inside of him. And she performed some sort of weird ass ritual on him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She put her hand over his mouth and his nose and told him, quote, The devil lies and says I am hurting you, abusing you. But R, what am I really doing? R responded and said, You are putting oxygen on me to help me breathe. She mentioned multiple times how he would steal food and also water. Ruby also said that R mentioned that he wanted to go to jail and that he worshipped the devil.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I thought it was interesting that she followed it up with, quote, R doesn't actually know what jail means. He has no comprehension of what throwing your life away means, quote. Which, I mean, isn't that exactly what Ruby did? It's a little ironic, right? So she would talk to R as if he had a demon inside of him, saying things like, quote, Give your demon friend a message for me. I will not rest.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I will not stop. I will not leave. I will fight him until the day you die. She would also tease him about how she slept in a very soft bed while he slept on the hard ground. Mother of the year, right guys? Now, at one point, E thought that she was going to get to eat. But then Ruby told her that she would not eat for a third day because she had, quote, hardened her heart.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Ruby wrote that E flipped out and laid on the floor all day saying things like, my mom starves me and calls it fasting, and my mom won't lift two fingers and bring me food because all she does is lay on the bed and eat brownies. And because she did that, Ruby said that she cut more hair off of E and then, quote, doused her in the dog wash.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
When E said that she wanted to run away, Jodi told her that she had no idea what was waiting for her if she did. Then she talks about how her and Jodi, or G-Joe, as she calls her throughout the journal, were planning on moving to the desert where the kids could, quote, work. She said that before moving, she would let E come and sit in the pantry, and she would have R sit on the patio in the shade.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Then, right when they would think that they got what they wanted and they would start to relax... She would write, quote, pop, we will drop them like hot potatoes out in the desert. She also wrote about the day that she completely shaved E's head. E had been walking up and down the stairs with boxes, and at one point she slipped.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Ruby thought that she had fake slipped, so she put her in the dog wash. She shaved her head, and then she made her go back to carrying the boxes. When E complained that it was hot outside, Ruby told her that hell would be much hotter, so either get used to it or start changing. She also wrote about how one night when she experienced a, quote, miracle.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She wrote, quote, Last night God gave me a miracle that I absolutely will never forget. I went to bed around 12.10 a.m., E on the floor next to my bed, and R on the patio outside of my sliding glass window. She goes on to say how she woke up in the middle of the night and noticed that R had run away.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
That's why I keep saying allegedly, but you get what I'm saying. So a lot of the times when we cover cases like that, I do want to jump on here and say, hey, Here's the whole story. Here's all the details. They just skimmed the surface, and that's true of the Hulu documentary as well. So that's why we're here today. We also did that recently.
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She says she woke Jodi up and they went out to go find him, jumping in their cars and, quote, racing the sun, racing the devil to find him. And finally, they did find him. This illustrates that he had tried to run away multiple times before finally being successful, which, I just have to say, that requires an insane amount of bravery.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Then in her journal, she says, Now guys, if this is not a dead ringer for Lori Vallow, I don't know what is, and... Truthfully, I've said it before, but I'm going to say it again. It is my belief that had R not escaped, had E not been rescued, there is no doubt in my mind that these children would not have survived.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
There really is no doubt in my mind, and I don't think that they would maybe have ever even been found because of the vast amount of desert out there. I don't know, but it sends a chill down my spine when I think about it. Thank God. Thank God he escaped. Now, after he escaped that one night, Ruby began tying ropes to him at night so that he couldn't leave.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Another form of punishment that they used was taking the kids to the local cemetery to pull weeds and pick up trash. Ruby wrote that they would make them go barefoot to increase the discomfort and to also decrease the chance of them running away.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She admitted that it was full of huge sagebrush, pokies, thorns, and even broken glass, and at one point, the owner of the cemetery came and told Ruby that she was trespassing and had to get off of her land. So then Ruby took the kids, and she and Jodi explained that the woman was in distortion.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Because of course, as soon as somebody's not agreeing with what you want to do, they're obviously in distortion, right? Now at one point, R was crying because his feet were so swollen from standing. Ruby told him, quote, when your soul is dying, no one cares about your feet.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
A couple of days later, when R, quote, wasn't manipulating and told Ruby that he wanted to change, Ruby told him, no, that's not true. You didn't manipulate because you weren't uncomfortable. Now, reading this journal was absolutely insane because Ruby was just such a freaking hypocrite as she yelled at her kids for manipulating her, but then manipulated them.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Anything R and E did was never good enough. And Jodi and Ruby would just continue to convince the kids that they sold their souls to the devil. Ruby even wrote about putting on a pair of boots and going into the room that he was locked in at one point and kicking him, saying, You want me to help you? No. You want me to feed you? No. You want me to shower and provide for you? No.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I don't know if any of you guys have watched Apple Cider Vinegar on Netflix. It's the Belle Gibson story. It's very much Anna Delvey in the sense that there was like a ton of scamming going on, but she actually was an influencer who was scamming the wellness community. She faked terminal brain cancer.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
She wrote about how he would respond to the different discipline measures of cold water, cactus poking, and whipping him with towels. And then after that, she moved to whipping E and R both with a belt. There was also another detail that Ruby talked about throughout a lot of her journal entries that literally sends chills down my spine even thinking of it.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Ruby talks about her and Jodi's plan to buy land in Arizona. In one entry she says, Jodi and Jay are going on a trip to look at property in Arizona. I have some cash in the bank, so if the property is right, we can move on financing immediately. We decided that the escalation of the kids is not manageable here and now. R is now sitting, angry and defiant. E is lying on the floor.
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We will bring them in. R and I will clean up out in the desert as he has pooped himself. Then in another entry, Ruby talked about the land again and said, kids need a good kick from a horse and a cactus to run into. Can you imagine saying this about your children, about any children? It is so awful.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, in one of Ruby's jail calls with Kevin, she said that she had cash for the kids' schooling, not so that she could go buy land in Arizona that she could use to torture the children on. Towards the end of the journal entries, right before her arrest, she mentioned that A and Jodi were in Tucson looking at a property with 500 acres.
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Then she wrote that J, who had been staying back in their Springville home, seemingly by herself, went to go visit Jodi for a week. When Ruby took her back to Springville, she said that her, Jay, A, and Pam packed up 20 boxes from the house and put them into a storage unit, and that A then gave two weeks notice at her work.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now guys, this was just a couple days before R fled and before the arrest happened. So I couldn't help but think about how if R hadn't escaped that day, they likely would have moved to Arizona, maybe even on 500 acres. And like I said earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that we would have had another Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell situation on our hands.
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She came out with, like, a cookbook, a book, an app, all of these things, and she was exposed as a fraud. So I had never heard of her. I had seen a couple of her, like, off-the-wall batshit crazy 60 Minutes interviews from Australia, but I had never heard of her. And so I watched Apple Cider Vinegar, and I'm like, oh, no, I need to do the deep dive. I still have so many questions.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
The journal entries were essentially just one sick confession after another. Then I started thinking about Kevin freaking out about the journals that Sherry took, because remember he freaked out and wanted to charge her with burglary when she took all of that stuff from the house? What was in those journals? Was it more confessions?
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Did they show a timeline of things beginning to escalate over time? Was he worried that if the police read them, then he would be implicated and be in trouble as well? I mean, and again, in that moment, your first instinct as a parent should be your children's well-being. So you shouldn't be trying to charge your daughter with burglary for trying to help her siblings.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
You should be the one trying to help your own children, my man. Like, give me a break. Which kind of just cements my other point, because in one of Kevin's very first interviews, when he was first told that his kids had been rescued and that they had wounds that were aligned with torture, Before even asking how the children were, he asked about Ruby.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
He was more concerned with his wife after hearing literally point blank that his one son had run away, that he was asking for help, that he was malnourished, that he was emaciated, all of these things. And his concern was Ruby, which it really makes you ask the question, how much did Kevin really know was going on?
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Because that definitely doesn't seem in line with a statement of a parent who is in shock and hearing those allegations for the first time. So Jodi and Ruby were sentenced to their four counts of aggravated child abuse in February of 2024. Okay, let's talk about sleep because honestly, it is something I struggle with.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I have talked to you guys about that for well over a year now, whether it's tossing and turning, waking up in the middle of the night, not being able to fall back asleep, or just feeling completely exhausted even after eight hours. And I know that I'm not alone in this. I am somebody where if I wake up in the middle of the night, it is game over.
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I'm staring at my ceiling, I'm thinking about my whole to-do list for the next day, and I'm never getting back to sleep.
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but that's why i am so excited to talk about beam's dream powder a science-backed healthy hot cocoa for sleep and this product has single-handedly changed the way i sleep for the better that is why i talk to you guys about it all the time because i could not even believe in a product more than this one and i have tried a lot of sleep aids before but they usually leave me feeling groggy the next day like low energy just kind of sluggish which is not ideal but beam it's totally different
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Other sleep aids can cause next-day grogginess, but Beam contains a powerful all-natural blend of reishi, magnesium, aptogen, and melatonin, all to help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed. And the best part is it is delicious. They have flavors like sea salt caramel, brownie batter, vanilla chai, and of course the OG cinnamon cocoa. All totally guilt-free.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
It is zero grams of sugar. It is 15 calories. It literally tastes like hot chocolate. I am obsessed. So if you've been looking for a way to actually enjoy winding down at night and wake up feeling good, you need to try this. And if you want to try Beam's best-selling dream powder, get up to 40% off for a limited time when you go to shopbeam.com slash annieelise and use code annieelise at checkout.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
That's shopbeam.com slash Annie Elise and use code Annie Elise for up to 40% off. Trust me, this is going to change your sleep game like tenfold.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I want to know so much more. But we're here to talk about Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt. rant today and everything starting back in, I believe it was 2015, starting all the way back at the beginning and where we are now. So I apologize again for the long winded intro. Let's dive right in.
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In 2015, Ruby Frankie and her husband, Kevin Frankie, decided to start a family vlog channel called Eight Passengers on YouTube. This was to showcase their life with six kids.
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Now, some of the children are adults now and of legal age, so I will use their names, but I'm going to use initials through the remainder of the episode for those who are minor still so that it can protect their identities and anonymity. So their six children are Sherry, Chad,
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, if you thought that Ruby and Jodi being sentenced would have kept their names and faces out of the mainstream media for good, you are incredibly wrong. Because one of the more positive reasons that they have still been in the media is all due to Ruby's oldest daughter, Sherry, and her releasing a book. And I mentioned it at the top of this episode, but this book was like a complete tell-all.
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And I've actually done a summary of the book itself, as mentioned, which I gotta say, she seriously blew this out of the water. And if you're into reading, you should definitely check it out, or at the very least, go check out that episode. I'll link it in the show notes. So without completely rehashing it all, I will say that the book was filled to the brim with...
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A, J, R, and E. At that time, family vlogging channels were extremely popular on YouTube, and after only two years, the Frankie family channel, called 8 Passengers, skyrocketed to 1 million subscribers. The family's channel, run primarily by Ruby, focused on the everyday tasks of a stay-at-home mom, like cooking meals, getting kids ready for school, going on outings, vacations, and to church.
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Pretty insane details, and also a behind-the-scenes look into what was going on in the Frankie household during that time. But one of the more significant things that Sherry alluded to was Ruby and Jodi being lovers, and like I said, I think everyone already assumed that, I mean, to be fair, but the fact that she basically confirmed it was pretty insane.
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Now, Sherry has also been very, very busy because on top of writing her book, she has also been extremely active in political spaces, and I cannot commend her hard work enough.
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Last October, she even testified in front of Utah lawmakers, arguing that there is no such thing as ethical family vlogging, and that her and her siblings' trauma and lives are a perfect example of that, a perfect illustration of that.
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The 8 Passengers channel became one of the growing number of LDS or Mormon family vlogs, which gave LDS stay-at-home moms a way to earn money while taking care of their children and running a household. Unlike some channels who kept their religion more private, the Frankies were always outspoken about their religious beliefs.
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absolutely baffles me because we see that there are regulations with child actors in Hollywood, right? I mean, you have to put a percentage of their pay, if not all of their pay, away in a separate account so that you can't just access those funds as a parent and that it goes to them.
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Yet family vlogging is kind of like the Wild West because there literally can be a child who still is in your stomach that you are exploiting by vlogging about it, sharing your experience, making money off of that child before they're even born, and that child
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hasn't consented they don't know that they're being broadcast to millions of people they're not getting paid or compensated in any way for that not to mention the safety aspect of this because a lot of these family vlogging channels have children who are in elementary school middle school even high school and they are such public figures that they are recognized everywhere they go
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And that, of course, is extremely dangerous when you take into consideration the parasocial relationships and how these people on the internet think that they know you, that they know your child, and some, in some very dangerous situations, become fixated on them. The child didn't consent to that.
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The child, you know, had no say in that, especially when they started doing this at such a young age and then feel almost obligated as though it's their responsibility to continue doing that so that their family can put food on the table. I hope you have a lousy day at school.
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What are you crying at? What's your problem? And a perfect example and illustration of that is Ruby's children. They had no say of when the cameras were on or off. They had no say of if their most intimate, private details were going to be shared, their text messages shared, them starting their periods for the first time.
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All of these very personal, private, and pivotal moments in their lives just shared with the public. And they had no say in that. So I have to just say, Sherry's work is just absolutely commendable, incredible, and so brave, and so like right on the money. Like that is what needs to happen. There needs to be regulations put in place.
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She's really doing the work to make sure that no other kids have to suffer the way that she and her siblings did. Sherry's crying.
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In the early days of their channel, they attracted a loyal following of subscribers who found their content to be relatable and to be entertaining. And at their peak, they had a following of 2.5 million subscribers. Sponsors flocked to the 8 Passengers channel as well, as you can imagine, utilizing the demographic of moms to advertise all sorts of household products.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, something else that Sherry touched on in her book was her relationship with her dad, Kevin. And I think that a lot of people, when it comes to Kevin, are back and forth with him, understandably, because he was an active participant in the, not even the early days, but in the majority of while all this first started coming to a head. And then he just kind of like backpedaled out of it, right?
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And allowed Ruby to have free reign. And to this day, he still has not been charged with anything. And like I said, people either agree with that or they don't.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, Sherry briefly mentioned toward the end of her book that she was rebuilding her relationship with Kevin and that he was actively fighting for custody of her younger siblings who are still in the custody of the state, which I'll get into more of that shortly here. But that leads us into what exactly Kevin has been up to himself, because it's a huge question that everybody wants to know.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, even though after that initial arrest, it seemed almost like Kevin was still kind of brainwashed and under the spell of the Connections cult type way. You could argue that. Some people don't believe it. But even though it seemed like that to some, it seems like since then, he has been able to undo a lot of that.
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But something I will say is when the arrest first went down, he was still all in on Ruby, all in on all of that because I believe it was Sherry, and don't quote me on this, but I believe it was Sherry. It was Sherry. She went back to the house to get the hard drives, the passports, all of these things because she didn't want anybody covering things up. She didn't want people hiding evidence.
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And he got so upset about that that he tried to have her arrested and charged for, it wasn't burglary or breaking and entering. Maybe it was just burglary. But something to that effect where she was only doing that to try to save and protect her siblings. Yet he was citing with Ruby that he was actually going after his own daughter.
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So like I said, she has said that they are trying to rebuild their relationship. And I don't know if that's because he was still actively brainwashed at that moment and now has slowly like began to unravel all of that. I have my own opinions, but it is something worth noting. And Sherry has forgiven him.
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She is actively working on rebuilding that relationship, which I cannot imagine is an easy thing to do.
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Like I mentioned a bit ago, Kevin has been part of an ongoing court battle and this whole court process has been kept out of the public, which I have to say is probably a good thing.
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I'm just hoping that one day these poor kids can live a seemingly normal life and that Kevin has truly healed and that he's ready to, you know, be a dad and take on the trauma and the PTSD that those kids no doubt have. And speaking of the kids, we have received a small update about how they're doing and their condition.
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However, after the infamous ad apocalypse on YouTube, videos featuring content for children were demonetized, and sponsors like this became crucial to the financial success of family vlog channels. Now, Ruby has said herself that sponsorships during this time earned their channel millions of dollars.
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And I've got to say, I am very happy with this update because it goes to their overall health. Since they're all still minors, roughly between ages 11 and 17, I'm not going to say their names, and a lot of the information has been kept private. However, the lead prosecutor over the case updated last year that R and E
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are doing a lot better, stating, quote, I don't even know how long it will take to undo all of that trauma that they have been through, but the fact that they are what he is saying, light years ahead, that is just absolutely amazing, and I don't think there's anything better that any of us could hope for.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, in late January of 2025, Jodi was back in court, this time because somebody filed a lawsuit against her. And this lawsuit comes from a former client of Jodi's named Michael Tillman. Michael is suing both Jodi and Ruby, actually, for racketeering and fraud because of their whole business with connections. Cult connections.
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And the whole lawsuit is claiming that despite being behind bars, Jodi and Ruby, Connections is still thriving. Not only are they continuing to do business with existing members, but they're actually actively recruiting new members, as alarming as that is.
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And more than that, this lawsuit also alleges that they believe that current existing members, regardless how long they've been within Connections, are are physically harming children, just like Ruby and Jodi had done as well. Basically saying, the activity and the core issues here, it's still going on. They're not stopping. Jodi still believes all of this.
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She's still actively recruiting people and they're continuing to push this just insane message that this is the way you should parent and that this is the way you should treat your children, punish your children. It's just, if that still is going on and if people have not seen the light yet about connections, heaven help you. I don't know what else to tell you.
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so if all of that is true this could be huge hello and welcome to connections we're so glad you're with us when i first started getting to know you she's like anger is my favorite emotion i'm like i don't know what i'm dealing with here now michael's involvement with jody ruby and connections all began in 2015 because he and his wife had started going to Jodi for marriage counseling.
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And he essentially says that Jodi and her, you know, wacko teachings created this huge rift in his marriage, which ultimately resulted in their divorce and a very nasty custody battle of their daughter. And that's kind of Jodi's MO, right? I talked about it a little bit at the beginning of this episode.
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But she liked to fracture marriages and relationships and always paint the man as the bad guy and work her way in, like weasel her way in. And that is what Michael is alleging here. That's exactly what she did, apparently. Now, what I will say is Michael's ex-wife and representatives for both Jodi and Ruby have declined to comment on this.
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But I, for one, am extremely curious to see where this lawsuit goes and what other information we may learn from it. And I especially want to know if Connections is still active because I feel like that is such a huge concern for public safety, for children's safety.
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So I hope it's shut down if it's not, or I hope somebody does shut it down because clearly it has a track record of being reckless and very dangerous. Now, I know that this was a big episode, OK? And I appreciate you for sticking with me. But again, I just felt like there was so much to cover. And I'm sure we'll be back here in another six months with more updates, maybe another deep dive.
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After seeing the success that could be garnered by family vlogging, all of Ruby's siblings started their own successful YouTube channels as well. Now, most YouTubers experience some level of criticism. Let's be real, I know I have. And oftentimes, viewers with genuine concerns do get labeled as haters or trolls.
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244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I'm not sure. But I wanted to at least give you all of the information on this case, especially if you're new to the case or maybe you just watched the documentary and you wanted to learn more. I just really wanted it to be in one spot. So I hope you found it helpful. Other than that, guys, thank you so much for tuning in today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
I will be back on the mic with you on Thursday with headline highlights where we talk everything every Thursday about what's breaking in the true crime world. New cases, old cases, existing cases, everything true crime related every Thursday. So thank you guys so much for being here.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
If you want to make sure you don't miss any future episodes or bonus episodes that we drop, take a quick second, whatever podcast app you're listening on, just follow the show. It's totally free, but that way it'll be like in your podcast queue on your phone so that you don't miss these. All right. Thank you guys again. And until the next one, please do not join any cults. Do not kill people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Be a good person and stay the heck away from connections. Honestly, that's like the best advice I could give. All right, guys. Thanks so much. And I will talk with you soon. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Now, since the beginning of the 8 Passengers channel, they have had their fair share of haters due to the type of content that Ruby and Kevin were choosing to post about their children.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Ruby, who was the primary filmer and editor of the videos, included not only the fun, happy, and memorable milestones that you would think, but she also posted embarrassing moments, punishments, medical information, and details about the children's schooling.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Many people thought that the Frankies were invading their children's privacy, and commenters often voiced their concerns that their whole lives being online could eventually negatively affect their mental health.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
There were even times when Ruby would use her children for the sponsorship portions of the videos, even going as far as making her children talk about using overnight diapers for wetting the bed after they were already in elementary school.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Ruby and other channels have put intimate moments online for viewers as well, such as the girls' first time shaving their legs, bra shopping, going on dates, going to the doctor, and even being sick on the bathroom floor. However, it wasn't just the amount of content that was concerning the eight passengers' viewers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Over time, especially as some of the children were getting older, Ruby and Kevin began discussing their parenting styles and forms of punishments.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
more and more there are countless examples of punishments and consequences that ruby and kevin came up with for the children but some of them became more disturbing than others for example one of the most viral videos of eight passengers was when ruby received a text message from her then six-year-old daughter's kindergarten teacher the teacher told ruby that he had forgotten her lunch and asked if she could bring her lunch to the school and this was ruby's response
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Whatever it is you're doing, whether you have got a long commute ahead of you, you're cleaning at home, you're running errands, whatever it is, I just want to give you a little warning. You're going to be with me for a minute, all right, Bestie? We are going to be with each other for a minute because we are going to go over everything in this case. Now, I've talked about this case before.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
So some people, of course, believed that this wasn't even a natural consequence and was just plain cruel. An adult who forgets their lunch at home would have the option of then going and buying a lunch, going home to get a lunch or asking someone to bring them a lunch if they wanted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
a child with no money and who has no other option but to ask their parent or their teacher for help, which, after all, is what parents are for, then that's how she responds. However, this wasn't the only instance that Ruby used food as some sort of form of punishment. I'm only going to say it one more time, and then you're going to lose the privilege to eat dinner.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
Viewers who consistently tuned into the 8 Passengers channel started to notice a pattern that Ruby and Kevin's oldest son, Chad, and the two youngest children became more or less labeled the problem children of the family.
Serialously with Annie Elise
244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family
they seemed to always receive the harshest punishments many of which went viral as well in one of these videos ruby and kevin sat down to talk with their viewers about a decision that they had made due to them being what they quote as selfish and not humble they told the children that for christmas instead of receiving gifts they would be receiving the gift of truth and love because knowing people these days i don't know if people gonna
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And right now, Wildgrain is offering Cerealistly listeners $30 off their first box, plus free croissants in every box. Yes, free croissants. Can I get an amen? Just go to wildgrain.com slash AE to start your subscription or use promo code AE at checkout. That's wildgrain.com slash AE. Trust me, this will make your weekly meals so much easier and way more delicious.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Now, let me set the tone for you, okay? Picture this. You're walking into your garage one night, whether you're coming home from work, from school, whatever it is. And up until now, you've had, you know, a pretty normal day. You're just arriving home. But then a few moments later, out of nowhere, you notice that somebody else is in the garage with you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Angela was heading back to the condo on the evening of June 24th, 2016. As she later told the police, she was walking into the garage, you know, the garage for the condo that Michelle had bought with Ian, and somebody was inside waiting and attacked her. According to Angela, she didn't recognize the man that was in the garage with her. She had never seen him before.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But even though there was no connection, no bad blood between them, no beef whatsoever, the attack that he inflicted on her was brutal. I mean, she was lucky to get away. So afterwards, right away she called the police, and when they got there, that's when they saw that Angela had clearly been through something pretty horrific.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
She had visible marks on her face, cuts on her skin, she had other injuries that made it clear that she had been through some kind of struggle. And let's also not forget, Angela was pregnant, not just pregnant, but carrying twins. The cops also said that there was bruising around her eyes, marks on her neck, and cuts on her chest, so it was clear that this was a serious attack.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And to all appearances, Angela was lucky to be alive and not more seriously injured. So the police didn't waste any time once they saw the scene and saw Angela's injuries. And in a surprise to no one, they zeroed in right away on Michelle. She had a motive. She had a history with Ian. They already had those bizarre, threatening emails that had come from her. So she was arrested.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But by the next day, thanks to her parents, she was able to post a $10,000 bond and get out of jail. And guess what? When she got out, those emails picked up again. But this time, some of them weren't signed by Michelle. They were signed by somebody named Jason. Now, apparently, Jason Rayburn was Angela's ex-boyfriend from a couple of years earlier.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
He was a state highway patrol officer who lived on the East Coast, and they had met at a bar before sort of jumping into a super quick relationship. So it was a little odd now for some guy from years ago who had nothing to do with any of this to get involved in this situation and start sending these emails.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So was he jealous and was he wanting to frame Angela's new husband's previous girlfriend hoping that it would like cause a wedge between Angela and Ian and he could work his way back in? Or was it Michelle who was now spooked and knowing that they're on her trail and she was looking for a scapegoat and so she quickly googled whoever Angela's ex-boyfriend was?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
The weird thing was, these new messages all had the same tone and similar wording to those from Michelle's account that were sent earlier. So right away, Angela was like, no, these aren't actually from Jason. It made more sense that someone, namely Michelle, was impersonating this Jason guy to cover their tracks. And then, three weeks after Michelle's arrest, another Craigslist ad went up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Once again, it asked for someone to come to Angela's house to attack her, and it said that no matter how much she fought back, Angela did not want them to stop what they were doing and to keep going through with the fantasy. And as it turns out, someone did actually respond to this new ad, and they showed up to attack Angela. It was a 17-year-old boy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Now, the good news was Angela spotted him right away while he was still outside in the yard, and she called the police immediately. So they were able to come stop him before he did anything. And of course, this 17-year-old kid, he had no idea that these ads that had been posted were posted by somebody else or that he was like caught up in this messed up situation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And they are there because they are planning to attack you. That's what happened to Angela Diaz in 2016 in her home in Anaheim, California, which, not for nothing, that's where I went to high school. It's like a stone throw away from where I live, and it makes this whole case all the more eerier. So she arrives home and gets in the garage and notices that somebody's there to attack her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I couldn't find any record either of him being charged with anything. And I'm guessing he wasn't because he was a minor. I don't know. But also, so far as he knew, he wasn't doing anything wrong. He was just responding to this like kinky Craigslist ad.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
However, I've got to imagine that this whole situation might have like spooked him a little bit and might have left him feeling like in the future he would have to be a lot more careful about who he's trying to hook up with or what kind of ads he's answering on the internet. I mean, I hope so at least.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So after this, the very next day on July 14th, Michelle was once again arrested for attempted sexual assault. Now, even though Michelle hadn't attacked Angela herself, the evidence told a pretty clear story. She was the one who set everything into motion. She was responsible for the attempt, even though it was a 17-year-old kid who was doing her dirty work for her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
The police also claimed that she posed a serious threat to public safety, especially with Angela being pregnant with twins. They weren't taking any chances, and I don't blame them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So now with charges like that, Michelle's bail was set at $1 million, and that's not exactly the kind of money you can just pull out of your back pocket, right? Even with help from your parents. So obviously, the hope now was that she was going to finally leave Angela and Ian alone for good.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
If she couldn't get out of jail, she couldn't post any more disturbing ads online, she couldn't email them, and hopefully everything would get under control. But still, even after all of the emails and all of the Craigslist posts and now two arrests, Michelle still said she was innocent, completely innocent.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
According to her, she never sent Angela a single email, not a threatening one or otherwise. She had no reason to talk to her at all. Apparently, Michelle's family thought she was innocent too, and they wanted to do what they could do to help her, but they didn't really have many options, so they gave her a choice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
They said, we can either bail you out, or you can get a really good lawyer, but we can't afford to do both. And meanwhile, the media coverage was just shredding Michelle to pieces. So Michelle knew that a short-term solution like getting out on bail wouldn't help. Even if she paid the bond amount and got out, everybody hated her and she still was going to have to face the court system.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And like I said, the public had turned on her. Everybody thought she was this criminal mastermind who was setting up her ex's new wife to be attacked in a sexual way. There was no way that she was going to be able to live a normal life with that hanging over her head. So she made the decision.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
She told her parents to skip the bail and to get a lawyer instead, which I have to say was probably a smart move on her part considering how serious these charges were. Now, as a random side note, Michelle was lucky and did not get a scary cellmate. In fact, she was staying with an elderly woman who she became very close with over time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Now, after she called the cops and they came to help her, they found her covered in bruises. She had cuts and scratches all over her neck. She had been very badly beaten. And that was just the beginning. Angela told the police that somebody had in fact been harassing her for months. They had been posting ads posing as her online, claiming that she had some sort of rape fantasy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
The woman was in jail on kidnapping charges, and I wish I knew more about her backstory, but that's really all I know. But all to say that it makes sense that Michelle was making friends, making connections on the inside, because it looked like she was going to be in there for a long time. Meanwhile, the police were about to learn... A lot more about Angela.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Now let's talk about Angela's ex, Jason. You'll remember, he was also apparently sending her weird emails. He was the one who lived on the East Coast, but then after the first arrest, the email started being signed from him, even though they were in the same tone as Michelle's emails. and Angela was also pretty sure that those emails were not from him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So when she and Jason had been dating, it started out like a lot of relationships. They realized that they had a lot in common, and things moved very, very fast. But to be fair, there was a reason for things to move so fast between them, because Angela didn't feel like she had any time to waste.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Early on, not long after they started dating, Angela confided in Jason that she had been diagnosed with cervical cancer. She was very sick, and she was not in a state to take care of herself. So because of that, she and Jason decided to move in together.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It wasn't necessarily a case where they said, hey, we've been together for a while, let's take things to the next level, but it was more of a situation where Angela literally couldn't be on her own anymore. So this new guy who really cared about her decided to step up. And I mean, Jason actually seemed like a really nice guy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
He even had a special needs son, which that would have been a lot of work for him to take on even without Angela in the picture, but he made room for her in his life as well. Now, right before her treatments were supposed to get started, Angela made the brave decision to shave her head herself. And according to her friend at the time, someone named Mary,
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Angela tried to be this happy, upbeat person that she had been before because she didn't want this serious illness now getting in the way of that or stopping her from living her best life. So she decided, you know, I'm gonna just take things into my own hands. I'm not gonna wait for the medication to make my hair fall out. I'm gonna shave my head myself and I'm gonna kick cancer's ass, basically.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But here's where things started to get weird. Even though she was in the middle of chemo, which can be so incredibly intense and hard on your body, Angela didn't seem to be making the kind of lifestyle changes that you might expect. She was still drinking wine, she was eating sugary foods, she had none of that loss of appetite or severe fatigue that people usually go through.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And of course, everyone's body is different, and people are allowed to process things however they need. So even though Mary thought it was odd, she didn't want to say anything or risk coming across as overly critical of Angela. I mean, her friend had cancer after all. But then one day, when Angela and Mary were hanging out, Angela said something totally out of left field.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It was a complete bombshell. Angela said that Jason had been abusing her. Now, something about that statement didn't sit right with Mary. I'm not sure what exactly it was that tipped her off and had her feeling like she couldn't believe Angela. Especially because the sad truth is there are a lot of guys who seem nice in public but are violent and dangerous behind closed doors.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But for whatever reason, she kind of had a little bit of pause and hesitation with this. It doesn't sound like there was anything specific in Angela's story that was automatically a red flag, but between the alleged violence and the fact that Angela didn't act the way that Mary would expect a cancer patient to act...
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Mary was starting to wonder if, for some reason, Angela wasn't being totally honest with her about what was going on in her life. Certain pieces of the puzzle just weren't fitting. It also didn't help that not long after Angela shaved her head, her hair began growing back, and it was growing back super quickly. Now, I am absolutely not a cancer expert, okay?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But I googled this to check, I fact-checked it a little bit, and apparently it usually doesn't grow back until after chemo ends. Sometimes it can even take up to 12 months or more. It's even possible for hair to look different when it comes back in, you know, thinner, straighter. patchy or that sort of thing. But Angela's came back in much faster than it normally would.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So basically, this other person online had made these fake posts and had invited strangers to come to her home and assault her. And the men who were there to attack her would believe that all of this was just totally consensual, that they were helping her, you know, live out this kinky fantasy that she had.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And it also looked the exact same as it had before she had shaved it. And I'm not saying it's impossible, but it was all kind of starting to be this bigger pattern with everything else. And it was notable. It was weird. And Mary wasn't the only person who was starting to second guess what Angela had told her. Jason was also starting to pick up on some things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
The biggest one being that Angela never asked him to drive her to the doctor's appointments or to pick her up afterward. He would have been happy to do it, and since they lived together, it made more logical sense for Jason to do that than for Angela to reach out to some friend or someone else. And of course, it's not like she would have been able to get herself home from chemo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
i mean she was feeling exhausted or nauseous right but never not once in their entire relationship did angela ever have jason take her to or from the doctor now when mary was having these doubts about angela she sort of just let them nag at her she didn't act on her suspicions but jason he took things to another level once he was doubting on what angela was telling him and
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Frankly, he kind of took them to a pretty intense degree. But I guess when you have big doubts, you've got to make big moves to address them. I don't know. But he reached out to a friend and told them the date of Angela's next appointment, the date she was scheduled to go in and receive chemo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And then he asked that friend to stake out Angela's house all day, see when she left, who she left with, what was really happening. And guess what? Angela never left the house that day. All right, let's talk about sleep because if you're like me, you know just how precious it is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And I gotta tell you, a while back, I felt like I was really struggling because even though I would sleep really well, I would wake up in the morning and my hips would hurt, my back would hurt, and I was like, is my mattress too firm? Is it too soft? I had all these aches and pains, but Like the true procrastinator I am, it took me forever to do something about it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But then everything changed when I switched over to a Helix mattress. I took their sleep quiz, and then it matched me with the perfect mattress for my body and for my sleep style. And ever since then, guys, I'm telling you, it has been life-changing. I wake up refreshed. I have no more back pain. I even noticed that my sleep score on my Oura Ring improved.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
My mom also spent the night not too long ago to watch my kids with me and she slept in my bed and she was like, oh my God, this mattress, it feels like a moon cloud. It's so comfortable. So I got her on it and then I ended up shipping her a Helix mattress too because it's just that amazing. I have the Sunset Luxe and it honestly is like, Like I said, life changing. It is so soft.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It feels just like a pillowy cloud every time I get in bed and it's the best. So if you've been thinking about upgrading your sleep, now is definitely the time because Helix is having their Martin Luther King sale where you will get 25% off site-wide plus two free dream pillows with your mattress purchase. Just go to helixsleep.com slash serialistly to grab this amazing deal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Now, as wild as all of that sounds, Angela knew exactly who was behind all of this, who had been setting her up, making these fake posts online, everything. She also knew why they were doing it. But to explain how she knew all of this, we need to talk a little bit about Angela, who she is and how she got here. Now, Angela was friendly and she was very well put together and worked as a lawyer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
That's helixsleep.com slash serialously. H-E-L-I-X sleep.com slash serialously. 25% off site wide plus two free pillows. Trust me, your future well-rested self will thank you. So as soon as Jason's friend told him that Angela had not left the house, she had not gone to that cancer appointment, he was even more confused. I'm not sure what he had been expecting his friend to say.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I mean, if maybe he thought that Angela had been going to these appointments, but a friend was driving her or something. But either way, Jason was totally shocked to learn that apparently the treatments weren't happening at all. Now, when Angela was supposed to be getting chemo, she would always send Jason these photos of what was happening, you know, like her hooked up to IVs, things like that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But these were always photos of her arm or a piece of the equipment, something like that. Her face never showed up in any of these photos. So now he did some Googling, probably some reverse Google image searching, and as it turned out, those photos of Angela were not of Angela.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
She had been stealing other people's pictures, going to different websites or strangers' social media accounts, and then sending those photos to Jason to make him think that it was her who was receiving the treatment for cancer. And I think the evidence is clear now that she wasn't being treated for anything. She didn't have cancer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So Jason and Mary finally sat down and compared notes with each other. And that's when everything really started falling apart. Because you may remember how I told you that when Jason and Angela started dating, she told him that she was a lawyer. Well, Mary worked with Angela, and she knew Angela's job title. And while it was true she did, yes, work at a law firm, it wasn't as a lawyer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
She was a paralegal. And there's nothing wrong, of course, with being a paralegal, certainly not, but it was just one more lie, one more lie to add to this massive stack of other lies that Angela had been telling both Jason and Mary this entire time. So next, Jason and Mary went to finally confront Angela with what they knew— And when they did, Angela doubled down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
She swore, of course I have cancer. What are you even talking about? She even told them that they could call her mom and ask her and that she would show them the papers that she had from all of her different doctor's visits. But Jason and Mary did not take the bait.
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234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And I also wonder if she had maybe forged some doctor's notes or if she had lied to her mom and that's why she offered that specific evidence so quickly. I don't know. But whatever the case, Mary knew better than to let Angela kind of set the agenda and tell her what was what.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist League. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are doing well today. It is like so windy outside right now. I'm wearing my sweatshirt. I'm like freezing cold, even though I have nothing to complain about. It's like 60 degrees here. I'm being such a baby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So instead, Mary asked her if she could see her chemo port, which is this small kind of little catheter-type thing that lets the chemo drugs get right into your body. But Angela refused to show it. Of course she wouldn't, because it should be pretty clear now that she didn't even have one. She didn't have cancer. So that's how Jason learned that Angela was a liar.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And it should be no surprise that the two of them broke up. And then after that, she eventually got together with Ian. But speaking of Ian… Ian, her new husband, was about to drop a bombshell himself. Because on September 30th, 2016, while Michelle was still in jail and while Angela was fearing for her life, everything changed.
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Because that's when Ian finally sat down with the police and offered to clear everything up. He said he was ready to tell the truth. He was going to tell them everything. And Ian told the investigators that he believed that his wife, Angela, was actually framing his ex, Michelle. Which, yes, you heard that right.
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The guy walked into the Anaheim police station and was like, I think my wife is behind all of this. And then he kind of just like unloaded a massive list of lies that Angela had allegedly told him. First being her pregnancy with twins. It was total fake news. Apparently, she was never pregnant at all.
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Apparently, Angela even showed him a sonogram, but then later, Ian found out that she had bought it off of Etsy for like less than $10. And he said that when he figured that out, he was totally done with her. He even annulled the marriage since they had been married for less than a year.
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And get this, that wasn't even the biggest lie that Angela had ever told him about herself, which we will get into in a moment. And like I said, guys, just when you think the twists are done coming, they are not, because we have still got a ways to go.
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She came across like one of those people who, you know, as soon as you meet them, you want to get to know them. You want to be around them all the time. and Angela was married to a man named Ian Diaz. Now, Ian was a deputy U.S. Marshal, which is a very serious job, okay?
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Now, on the day that Ian came in and said that Angela had framed Michelle, the police didn't know yet about Angela's past with Jason and that entire fake cancer thing. But now they knew that she had been faking a pregnancy. So with that, they kind of unraveled a whole knot of lies. It wasn't just the framing or the pregnancy or the cancer.
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Angela had lied about basically every single thing that had ever happened to her. And I wish that I was exaggerating, I truly do, but for her whole life, Angela had been constantly saying things that weren't true. She told people that she had certain jobs when she wasn't working at all. She told people she had a law degree, which she never got.
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And when the police ended up getting a search warrant to check out her devices... things got even crazier. Angela had apparently been sending these threatening emails to herself the entire time using a VPN to try and cover her tracks, which a VPN is, it's kind of like a tool that makes it look like you're accessing the internet from a different location, hiding your actual IP address.
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It's meant to protect privacy, but in this case, Angela was using it to make it look like she was someone else, Michelle, and that Michelle was the one sending those crazy emails.
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This was all just insane. There was no other word for it. I mean, truly just insane. So after Ian turned Angela in, Michelle was finally released from jail. However, by that time, she had already spent nearly three months behind bars. Three whole months of her life that she lost because of Angela's just crazy vendetta against her.
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Because as it turns out, Angela had been Googling the movie Gone Girl. I mean, you know the one. The one about a woman who fakes her own death and then frames her husband for it. It's not exactly the same story as what happened between Angela and Michelle, but the broad strokes were the same in everything.
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I mean, it means that he was responsible for things like enforcing federal laws, tracking down fugitives, handling all sorts of high-stakes situations. It definitely wasn't your normal average 9-to-5 job. It came with a lot of pressure and also a lot of risk, and it definitely isn't a job for the faint of heart. So when Ian met Angela, they hit it off right away.
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And remember the time that she claimed that she was attacked in the garage and then called the police who showed up and found her with bruises and scratches and marks? Well, yeah, it turns out that whole thing was fake too. Angela had staged the entire thing. Remember when Angela supposedly got attacked that first time?
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She said that somebody jumped her in her garage and that she managed to get away... you know, by the skin of her teeth, and she called the police, and she was covered in all those cuts and bruises when she got there. Well, it turns out she really did fake that attack. And when she did that, she forgot to keep in mind that there were security cameras all over the condo.
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Now, the police didn't check them at first. I mean, they believed Angela's report, and they didn't think to question it. But now, after her husband Ian gave that statement and said that she had been lying about everything, they decided to go back and review that footage. There was no sign of anyone coming in or out of the house except for Angela.
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No one broke in, no one tried to assault her, and the police didn't actually see how she got all of those injuries either, but their assumption was that she had done it to herself. Now, the second time around, when the 17-year-old boy showed up, that probably was real. He was an actual person. And the police talked to him. He was on the security cameras, all of those things.
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But the officials knew that the only reason he came to the house is because he had seen that Craigslist ad. He thought that Angela wanted to hook up with him. And as we now know, Angela did, in fact, lure him in, even if later she said that it was something that Michelle had done to her. It was really her who set that trap. It's also worth noting that this teenager never laid a hand on Angela.
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She saw him approaching before he even got anywhere near the house, and then that's when she called 911, and that's when the cops got there, he was still in the yard, and that's when they started talking to him. So he had never even made it inside. So she was never in any real danger from him whatsoever. Now with all of these lies kind of like coming to the surface, the biggest question was, why?
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What the hell was Angela's motive for all of this? Well, when the police searched Angela's computer, they found two word documents. One was titled The Angela Diaz Story, and the other was Daughters of God, The Angela Diaz Story. And these two documents, guys, they were movie pitches. As in, she wanted to have her own Lifetime movie.
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She literally staged all of this, sent another woman to jail, all of this complex craziness so that she could be famous. Now, guys, that's not the twist I was talking about either. Just you wait, because we're going to get there. Now, in all fairness, aside from the Lifetime movie, it does sound like she did have one other motive. It's still not a good motive.
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I mean, what would be in this awful situation? But it was at least a little bit more understandable, something a little easier to wrap your head around. And it all stemmed from that dispute between Michelle and Ian over that condo, the condo that Michelle had purchased. Ian was desperate to stay in it, but he couldn't afford to.
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The terms that they had settled in court also meant that Ian would have to pay the entire outstanding mortgage, the amount that hadn't been paid off yet. And he'd also have to pay Michelle back for some of what she already paid. But if Michelle was in jail or, say, in prison, she couldn't come after him for any of that money.
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So once Ian and Angela were then living in that condo together, they kind of both were in agreement that they didn't want to lose their home or move out. So because of that, the natural conclusion to them was they needed to get rid of Michelle, which is why Angela pulled off what she thought was going to be the perfect crime.
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At the time, he was living in a condo that he owned in Anaheim, and things between them moved super quickly. I mean, just a month after they began dating, they ended up getting engaged, and before you know it, Angela had moved in with him into that condo. Then they got married and they started building their lives together.
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Instead, after months of police investigations, the truth finally caught up to her. So on January 6th, 2017, Angela was arrested and finally charged with 10 felony charges and 22 misdemeanor charges, including a kidnapping charge.
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Later that year, Angela went to court, and she eventually pleaded guilty to all of it. And somehow, get this, she was only sentenced to five years. That's right, five years. I truly do not get that. And that was in 2017, if you remember, which means that the five years have gone by, and this woman is now out there and free, the mastermind behind this whole thing.
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And the fact that she lived in Anaheim freaks me out. Don't come for me, Angela. Don't come for me.
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And from the outside, it looked like they were just your typical couple with big dreams for their future. And Angela's dreams were coming true. I mean, soon after moving in with Ian, she ended up finding out that she was pregnant. Not only that, but she was expecting twins. Life could not be better.
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Well, that's not exactly the end of the story because it is not nearly the end of what was really going down in this situation. All right, this is for all my restless people out there who have aches and pains, who can't sleep, who just have so much stress.
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And it's not just sleep. They have plant-based solutions that help with stress, mood and focus, even pain after exercise, all made with high quality, clean ingredients. Now, personally, I love their CBD oil because it's a clean and natural way to relax after like one of my very busy, very hectic, very psychotic days. And I always wake up feeling refreshed and ready to take on the day.
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So it's been a total game changer for me. And look, I know there is a lot of CBD out there, but I trust CB Distillery for their commitment to quality. That's why they have over 2 million satisfied customers and offer a 100% money back guarantee. And I've got a 20% discount to get you started. Visit cbdistillery.com and use code AE for 20% off. That's cbdistillery.com code AE. cbdistillery.com.
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So what about Angela's former husband, Ian? Well, the police and Michelle both think that he knew way more than what he let on when he went to the investigators and turned on Angela and turned on his wife. In fact, to all appearances, he was in on the scheme right up until he turned on his wife.
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Remember earlier how I said that Michelle thought that somebody hacked her email to send those threatening emails to Angela? Well, it turns out she was half right. The truth was that Ian had created new email accounts in Michelle's name. And then he was the one who sent those emails to Angela for Angela to receive.
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And this is how crazy this case is, because apparently he and Angela even created an email account which they claimed Michelle had created to impersonate Ian. So in reality, it was Ian impersonating Michelle impersonating him. I mean, it's like you need a Venn diagram and like a flowchart to keep track of all of this. And get this, Ian was also the one who posted on Craigslist.
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So just when it seemed like everything was falling into place for Angela and for Ian, things started getting a little weird. And it all started with some weird emails. And when I say they were getting weird emails, that actually might be understating it.
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All of those ads asking men to come over and attack his wife, his pregnant wife, he was the one posting those. So in 2023, he was also sentenced to over 10 years for cyberstalking, conspiracy to commit cyberstalking, perjury, and obstruction of justice. Which, I gotta just say, the fact that he got a bigger sentence than Angela, she only got five years, I don't know if that really equates.
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I don't know how I feel about that, and I'm curious to know your thoughts. But honestly, it probably shouldn't be all that surprising that Ian was in on this, especially when you hear about his history with Michelle and what their relationship was like before they broke up, because the details are disgusting. Now, at first, it seemed pretty good, kind of like dreamy, actually.
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Just after a couple of dates, they were apparently in love with each other. Eventually, Ian proposed to Michelle, and to do it, he took her to New York City. He got down on one knee right in front of Rockefeller Center in front of that Christmas tree. I mean, just insanely beautiful, insanely romantic.
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Then they moved in together, as we know, and sometime after that in 2014, Ian started to get a little weird, kind of controlling, at least according to Michelle. She claimed that he started asking her to dress differently. as in wear more revealing clothing. Apparently Ian had a thing for crop tops and he wanted Michelle to wear crop tops more often.
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Then he wanted her to get her belly button pierced. And it's not like this was a case where Michelle had already been thinking about getting a piercing or toying with the idea, and then he encouraged her to do it because it's what she ultimately wanted. No. Michelle, in her own words, was a self-proclaimed goody two-shoes. She wasn't into body piercings.
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But Ian wanted her to make this one very specific change to her body because it was something that he says he would like. So things were kind of getting a little weird. And then after a while, Michelle started to get this odd feeling that Ian might be tracking her. I guess he was sending her these messages asking her why she wasn't home on time for something or where she was or things like that.
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Even if she was literally only running a couple of minutes late, there would really be no reason he would even know that she was late somewhere. It's not like she was a late person and that that person would have been reaching out to Ian asking where Michelle was. It wasn't anything like that. There was really only one way for Ian to have so much information on where she was going and when.
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And in Michelle's mind, Ian had to be tracking her somehow. But that's not even the worst of it. Not by a long shot. Apparently, Ian had a fetish where he thought that it would be hot if Michelle had sex with random men. Men that she didn't even know. And that was not Michelle's jam. She didn't want to do it.
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And I'm just going to read some of these out loud because I don't think that you really get the full impact unless you hear the actual words from these emails. So here's part of one. I hope you are scared of death tomorrow. Be prepared. Don't sleep. Be watchful of the daughters of God. We will steal your child and we will watch as it dies. He is using you for everything. Don't you see this?
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But even after she told Ian no and that she was very clear in the fact that she didn't want to do it, He just kept asking her, kept pursuing it, sort of pushing her boundaries. And it became very high pressure, and the message was clear. He didn't care about what she was comfortable with. He only cared about what he wanted.
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Well, on Valentine's Day in 2014, literally on Valentine's Day, things changed. See, Michelle had a really bad cold that day, and she was taking all sorts of medicine to try and get it under control. And I'm sure a lot of us have been there, right? You're on the strong stuff. It affects your judgment. It affects your thinking.
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There's a reason you're not supposed to operate heavy machinery when you're drinking cough syrup. There's also a reason why they sell it behind the counter now. And Michelle was kind of in this sort of cloudy mental state. And once again, Ian asked her to have sex with a stranger and to let him watch.
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And even though Michelle felt like literal garbage and the last thing that she wanted to do was just hook up with some other guy, she was also sort of worn out and tired from constantly shutting Ian down and constantly telling him no. So this time she was like, okay, sure, we'll do it. Well, Ian did not waste any time at all.
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He didn't even want to give Michelle a chance to get over her cold and sober up from all that cough medicine and change her mind. So that very same day, he posted on Craigslist, which, God, this guy loves using Craigslist, right? So he found someone who would let him live out his fantasy. And he gave this guy his address and made all of the plans about when this guy should come over.
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Then, before the guy could even come over and, you know, do his thing, Ian gave Michelle three shots of whiskey. Maybe he tried to convince her that it would help her relax, maybe take the edge off of her nerves, I don't know. But it's important to remember that Michelle drank the whiskey while she was already woozy and out of it because of the cough medicine.
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So when she added alcohol to the mix, she definitely felt like she was not in a position where she could consent. Not that Ian cared at all. He even set up cameras in the bedroom so that he could record the entire hookup and rewatch it later. I mean, so that he could get to relive this whole fucked up situation over and over again. Truly gross. And it was messed up. I mean, no question there.
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Because Michelle had already made it crystal clear to him that she didn't even want to do this in the first place. It just wasn't her thing. But Ian had ignored her boundaries and had pushed her when she was sick, when she was vulnerable, when she was impaired, and...
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Not only just like getting her to do it, but then going so far as to wanting to record it so that it was something that he could revisit and rewatch over and over again. So once the stranger was done with her, they had had sex, had it all on tape, you know, all the things, Michelle felt sick to her stomach.
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She eventually went back to Ian and told him that for her, it wasn't this dirty, naughty, fantasy, fetish thing like it was for him. For her, she felt like she was a victim of a sexual attack. Which, I gotta say, yeah, she was. She was drugged. She was out of it. She certainly didn't give enthusiastic consent.
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But when faced with the reality of what he had done, do you think that Ian was apologetic? No, of course not. When Michelle told him how she felt, Ian became angry. He lashed out at her for even daring to feel violated.
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Which to me, I don't know the inner workings of their relationship exactly, just what Michelle has alleged and what he was doing in terms of tracking her and then the sex with random men, the Craigslist posting, all of those things. But to me, it seems pretty indicative of escalation. And who knows where things could have gone had Michelle stayed. But
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Luckily, it should be no surprise that after all this, the relationship eventually broke down. So that's when they broke up, and that's when they ended up fighting in court over the condo. Then, after that settlement, Ian emailed Michelle one time, telling her that he needed to see her, but he wouldn't say why. All he would say was that he wanted her to come see him at the condo.
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He is obsessed with me. I am his treasure princess. You are nothing. Watch your back tomorrow. Now, as if that's not unsettling and unnerving enough, right? The person who sent these also attached really sick photos to the emails. I mean, I'm talking stuff of like women with their heads chopped off, being cut off, being sexually assaulted, aborted babies. I mean, very disturbing graphic images.
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But something about this email kind of set off all of the alarm bells in Michelle's head. She had this gut feeling that if she went to the condo and went alone and nobody else knew that she was there with Ian, that something bad would happen to her.
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So she ignored the invitation, and she still couldn't shake the feeling that Ian had some kind of violent intention against her, that he wanted to hurt her. So she basically uprooted her entire life to put as much distance between herself and Ian as possible. She quit her job, she dropped out of the college program that she had been attending, and then she moved in with her parents.
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I mean, she was not the obsessive ex that just couldn't let go like Ian and Angela had made her out to be. She was the one who wanted to get away from her obsessive ex. So then, after that, came the harassing emails, the supposed Craigslist ads targeting Angela. I mean, this poor, poor woman. Nothing Michelle did was enough to keep her crazy, possessive, predatory ex away.
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And you can tell that this all had a huge impact on Michelle. I mean, I can't imagine anyone being okay after living through something like that. But she also spoke about how all of this made her feel in her victim impact statement. She said, "...he purposefully deprived me of sleep, raped me, because yes, let's just call non-consensual sex what it is."
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He stalked and spied on me, devalued and triangulated me, harassed me and scared me, and pushed me beyond the limits of my sanity. I was left with complex post-traumatic stress disorder that was so severe it caused deeply frightening and confusing disassociative episodes.
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something that had never happened to me before dating Mr. Diaz, and something that thankfully hasn't happened since 2016 when this ordeal occurred. And then, as if what he had done to my mind was not enough, he would turn around and he would use it against me to paint me as crazy and unhinged. What a classic move for an abuser, right?
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I still remember the day we were in his car driving to Los Angeles and he told me about R3s or Romeos in jail. These were the rapists and the sex offenders. He described their conditions to me, not able to be outside or run, urinating and defecating without privacy, hated by the other inmates for what they had done. He asked me how I would feel about it if I were in that situation.
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That would be my worst nightmare, I told him. Not being able to run free outside, having people believe I had done something so horrible. Yes, the condo was at the center of Ian's attempt to frame me for sexual assault, but you've seen the video footage, Your Honor. This man did not just want the condo. He wanted to ruin my entire life. I mean, what a complete psychopath. Am I right?
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And after all of this, I really hope that Michelle is doing okay, because what she went through was unreal. In late 2018, she filed a lawsuit against the city of Anaheim and also a few of its police officers, because according to her, they should have seen right from the get-go that she was being framed.
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They should have never believed, not even for one second, that she had sent even one of those emails or that she had made those posts on Craigslist. According to Michelle, her innocence was obvious from the very beginning.
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Now, in law enforcement's defense, some of the emails that Michelle sent Ian right after their breakup, where she sounded intense and used religious imagery, those were from her. We talked about them near the beginning of this episode, and Michelle says, sure, she used more forceful language in those emails than she normally would, but the fake emails had a completely different tone.
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And let's talk about the Craigslist posts, the ones about Angela's supposed fantasy. When you post on Craigslist, you have to give an email address, and the email that the poster used in several of these ads was Ian's. It wasn't Michelle's.
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So you get the picture. This was for sure scary and unsettling. And I've also got to imagine that anytime someone sends that unhinged of an email, It's natural for your first question to be like, how can somebody even say something like this? Who would send this? Like, what is wrong with this person? Yet, that wasn't a question that Angela or Ian were asking.
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They were also posted from Ian's home address, the IP address, which the police would have known if they had bothered to look into the IP address of those emails, or if they had asked Craigslist for their records about who had put those ads up. But the investigators didn't even bother to look that far.
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They just took Angela and Ian at their word, and they said Michelle was the one who was doing everything. And you'll remember that Michelle got arrested after that first supposed attack against Angela. Well, while Michelle was still in jail, and while her phone was literally in police possession, Angela got another threatening email that she said was from Michelle.
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There was also a new ad that was posted on Craigslist during that time. Now, obviously, Michelle didn't have any way of sending that stuff from a jail cell when her phone was literally with the police officers investigating the case. But once again, the police just believed Angela when she said that Michelle was still harassing her, even though it was literally impossible for Michelle to do that.
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234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I mean, Angela and Ian did a terrible job of covering their tracks, and it's honestly a little bit funny, or it would be if this story wasn't so disturbing. But they went to the effort of setting up a VPN, crafting this huge elaborate lie, and then they were emailing themselves and posting on Craigslist while Michelle was behind bars, literally incapable of doing anything to them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It makes no sense.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It was a stupid move that truthfully should have gotten them caught. And it did, eventually, but not until after Michelle had sat in jail for close to three months for a crime that she didn't commit. And that's a big part of why she filed her lawsuit. In April of 2021, the suit was settled out of court. Michelle and the city of Anaheim both agreed to keep the details of the settlement under wraps.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But I gotta say, after all that she went through and some pretty clear missteps from the police, my hope is that she came away with plenty of cash. I mean, she deserves it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
The Anaheim Police Department didn't really take a ton of ownership for their wrongdoing here, but they did release a statement that said, we believe our actions were appropriate based on the evidence that was known to us at the time. In addition, it was the persistent efforts of the detectives who ultimately uncovered the truth that led to Michelle's exoneration.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Which I gotta just say, uh, no, it was actually not the detectives and their persistent efforts that led to the whole, like, you know, conclusion and drumroll, everybody knows what the truth is. It was Ian giving them Angela right there on a silver platter, turning on his wife, probably trying to save himself, but like, that's what cracked this whole case wide open. not your persistent work.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It was him literally coming to you saying, I'm ready to tell you the truth. It was Angela. And that's what untangled everything. I mean, give me a break. I don't know. I know that this one was for sure a wild one today. So I know it got a little confusing there for a minute, but I appreciate you sticking with me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I am just thankful that Michelle is away from these two nut jobs and hopefully happy, living safe, living, you know, her best version of her life. But the fact that Angela is already out and the fact that Ian will be out in just a couple of years, that scares me. They are like two diabolical humans to me. And who knows if they'll end up getting back together or if they'll just prey on new people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Because the moment that they got that very first email, they knew exactly who they were from. Later on, they told the police that they were positive that those letters came from a woman named Michelle Hadley. And Michelle was Ian's ex. Now, on the surface, Michelle seemed pretty normal. She had a good job, and at one point, she even worked at Disneyland, which is kind of cool, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Maybe Angela already has. I don't know. But it's literally in my backyard here. And that kind of freaks me out a little bit. So thank you guys so much for tuning in. I will be back on the mic with you on Thursday where we are going to go through all of the headlines of what's going on this week in the true crime world.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And then I'll be back on the mic with you Monday morning with an all new deep dive into a case. So thank you so much for tuning in until the next one. Stay safe. Do not use Craigslist. Just don't do it. And I don't know. Don't lie. Don't be a psychopath. That's all I got. That's all I got, guys. All right. Take care and stay safe. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I mean, apparently Ian loved going to Disney, so that was a major plus for him when they had been together. But it seemed like she had, like, a relatively normal life. Now, before Michelle and Ian began dating, Michelle had been in another serious relationship. She had actually been married to her high school sweetheart. It, for whatever reason, didn't work out, and they ended up getting divorced.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And it had hit Michelle pretty hard. But she also knew that she was still young. She had a lot of time ahead of her, you know, to have another shot at love and meet her soulmate and her, you know, next person that she was going to be with. So then Michelle met Ian, and they hit it off. But they decided to take things pretty slowly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
But anyway, I'm just like in my comfies and I am... I don't even know what to say. This case, I don't even know how to tee it up because I thought I knew where it was going, okay, when I was researching it. And like, even though there were a couple twists along the way, I was like, okay, I like to consider myself like a true crime sleuth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I mean, they first met in 2013, and it was a little while before they decided to move in together. And in 2015, two years later after they met, they took the next step of buying a condo together in Anaheim. And remember earlier when I said that Ian was living in a condo when he met his now wife, Angela? It was the same condo, the one that he had bought with Michelle, his ex.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And here's where things get interesting. Michelle paid the entire down payment herself. She fronted all of the money for their condo, while Ian didn't pay a single dime. It's also worth mentioning that Michelle was a little bit younger than Ian. She was in her late 20s when they met, while he was 34 or 35 years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Yet despite that age gap, their relationship seemed to be going really well, at least for a little while. But eventually they broke up. And when I tell you this was not a clean break, it was not a clean break. In fact, it got downright ugly. And one of the biggest issues was that condo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Even though Michelle had paid the whole down payment herself and had fronted all of that money, the problem was both of their names were on the deed, on the title. And that meant that Ian was the legal owner as well. So now they were in this really messy fight over who was going to get this condo. Eventually, they ended up settling the issue in court in 2015. And the decision?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It was that Ian could stay in the condo, but he had to pay Michelle back some of what she had chipped in already. And if he ever sold it, he was going to have to split the profits with Michelle, which I have to say, that obviously seems fair. So when all was said and done with the court case, Ian and Michelle went their separate ways.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Now, for most people, that would probably be the end of it, right? But that's not how it worked out with the two of them at all. See, after the breakup, it was like Michelle had completely changed her entire personality. She turned into a whole different person.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Before she had met Ian, Michelle's friends and family had seen her as this, like, super happy person, the type of person who saw the world through an Instagram filter. Just everything was perfect and nothing could go wrong. But now, the rose-colored glasses were gone. Happy, cheerful, optimistic Michelle was nowhere to be found. Needless to say, she was not taking this breakup well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
She was feeling burned by the whole situation. Like, she had fronted all of this money for the condo. He now was getting to live in it, and she would only get profits from it if he ever sold it. She also was now, like, separated from this guy. I mean, it felt like her world was falling apart. And this once optimistic woman was now pretty pessimistic about life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And I guess you could even argue downright angry. So at one point, Michelle had sent Ian a couple of emails just to let him know how she was feeling and also what she hoped would happen to him. Now these were some very strongly worded emails, and they also kind of had this odd-sounding religious undertone to them that was really intense, which, let me read them to you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Your sins are many, including defiling me and my family with your wicked and evil sexual acts. Again, like, kind of bizarre and would definitely make me pause and be like, what's going on? Who would write something like this? But as for Ian, he was kind of just left scratching his head when he got these, feeling like, what the heck does our mortgage have to do with the Bible?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Like, I can foreshadow who it's going to be or who's involved in this. When I tell you that...
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And these emails didn't stop there. Here's another one. Your end will come and you will relinquish the keys to the earth. Earth is mine and the title deed to earth belongs to me. There will be no resolution outside of court unless you are willing to bow before the Lord your God. If you are not, then prepare yourself, Satan. So let it be written. So let it be done.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Please explain to your real estate attorney that God's law is above all laws. Prepare yourself and prepare your armies. I'm just going to say this. I mean, different strokes for different folks, but it has given me some like serious Lori Vallow vibes a little bit in those emails that she used to send to Charles Vallow in the early days before he was killed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I mean, everybody has their own religious practices, which is great and fine and good. But when things get so extreme and there's like this sense of like radicalism, it gets a little, I don't know, it's a little uncomfy to me at least, just personally. I don't know. What would you, how would you react if you received one of these emails?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
at like when I had my big aha moment I was like yeah see I knew it I had a feeling then there was like this whole other twist that came out from like a hard left and I was like what like what people are truly capable of this like it it blows your mind it and it's gonna blow your mind and I as soon as I was researching I was like I need to talk about this case with my true crime besties I need someone to talk about this with besides my sister because it is truly insane and
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
So eventually, it just became all too much for Ian, which I totally get, okay? So he went to the police, and he also confronted Michelle directly, telling her that he was now going to get the authorities involved. He had even sent the police copies of her emails, and he had also sent them to the U.S. Marshal Service, where I'm sure he had a lot of connections since he worked there, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
He also said he was going to work on taking out a restraining order against her. But as all of this was happening, then his new wife, Angela, was also starting to get these emails. However, these emails weren't from Michelle. These emails were from a bunch of different guys who said that they were responding to a Craigslist ad that she had posted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
The ads were super explicit and said that Angela was looking for men to come to her house and let her live out a rape fantasy. And these posts were basically an invitation for men to come over and force themselves on her, to ignore her if she ever said no or tried to fight back. I mean, truly just awful. Every woman's worst nightmare, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And according to these ads, if she said no, it didn't really mean no. It was all part of her fantasy. Now, obviously, this wasn't really a fantasy that she had at all. And I can only imagine what that would feel like being in a situation like that, seeing that there are Craigslist ads posted that look to be from you where you're saying, come to my house, here's my address. If I say no, don't stop.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I mean, that is terrifying. You would always be watching your back and being on alert, right? And this was like the last straw for Ian and Angela. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I mean, after that, they went back to the Anaheim Police Department and they finished the last few steps that they needed to get that restraining order against Michelle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And in June of 2016, it was luckily granted. Now, for those of you who don't know, when you get a restraining order, the police do have to notify the person who the restraining order is against. Because, again, how can they know not to come within a certain distance of you unless they're notified? So a few officers reached out to Michelle to tell her what had happened.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And here's where things started to get very interesting. Because her reaction wasn't exactly what you would expect. She claimed that she didn't send any threatening emails. Yeah, she admitted that some of the emails looked like they were coming from her main email account, but she insisted that she wasn't the one writing them. In fact, she seemed totally shocked at the language in them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Michelle also said that she had started getting those login alerts from Google, you know the kind where they pop up on your phone if somebody's trying to access your account from a new device? And she said that she was getting these alerts like somebody was trying to hack into her account. She said the same thing about those Craigslist posts.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Apparently, someone had used her email address to put at least one of those posts up. And we know that whoever did also used Angela's email address at some point, since she was getting responses directly to her inbox. But someone had put one of those ads up using Michelle's address too.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And I don't know if any of you guys have ever posted anything on Craigslist, but basically when you do, if you sign up for something or sign up to do a post or whatever, you get this automatic confirmation email.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And to hear Michelle tell it, she just signed into her email one day and saw this automatic reply saying that she had gone onto Craigslist and asked men to assault Angela as part of this, like, greater fantasy. And according to Michelle, she said that that was really upsetting and very disturbing because she hadn't done anything like that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Apparently, she even reported the posts and straight up told the people who were working at Craigslist, "'I didn't write that.'" So at this point, the police had heard two different sides to this story. Ian and Angela said that it was Michelle who was sending them these intense, threatening emails. But meanwhile, Michelle was like, wait, wait, wait, hang on a second. That's not me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Somebody is out there pretending to be me. Now, from the sound of it, the police didn't really believe her story about being hacked or being impersonated online, not for like a single second. I mean, I'll be honest, how many times have I covered a case where someone gets caught harassing someone and then later pretends it was somebody else who broke into their account, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
It's the number one go-to excuse for all kinds of, like, creepy, nasty people. So the police didn't listen to her excuses, and they pretty much didn't give her the time of day. They just said, this restraining order is going to stay in place, and now you've been formally notified. So that's that. Stay away from them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And the hopes in these kinds of situations is always that once you file a restraining order, the person who has been harassing you will kind of like back off, right? They'll be a little bit spooked. You've put them on notice, they know that you know what they're doing, and you're not going to take it anymore. I mean, in theory, that's what we hope happens.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
And for a month or so, that's how Ian and Angela felt. They didn't get any more disturbing emails, they didn't hear from Michelle at all. But then, that's when things took a seriously terrifying turn. This episode of Cerealistly is brought to you by Wild Grain. All right, besties, I gotta tell you, you know I love my carbs. You know I love my sandwiches.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
Like, my death row meal is actually a turkey sandwich. That's not a lie. It's totally true. Like, I love my carbs. And I have to tell you, I am officially obsessed because Wild Grain is the first Bake From Frozen subscription box for artisanal breads, pastries, even pastas. And everything is super high quality, and it's customizable to your preferences. So personally, I've tried like everything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
234: Obsessive Love Triangle with Insane Twist | The Bizarre Case of Michelle Hadley
I've tried their croissants, their sourdough bread, their fresh pasta. And let me just say, they taste like something straight from a bakery, not my kitchen. And the best part, it's all ready in under 25 minutes, all from frozen. So there's no mess, no cleanup, just delicious carbs whenever you want them. And I always want them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So I go to this video that I keep being tagged in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Yeah, you're young. I would imagine they're protecting you and what you're exposed to. And a nine-year-old isn't going to know something is dangerous or sketchy or that something bad is happening unless they're made aware of that. And I would imagine they weren't making you aware of that, of course.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And why weren't the weapons seized? Was it because it's a hunting community and it wasn't a threat? They just did not act on it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
But because he was never formally charged with that or convicted, they probably couldn't use that to then further bolster this case, I would imagine. Right. And just for all of our U.S. listeners, RCMP, and you might know more about this, but from my preliminary research, It's basically your federal government that also does sometime act locally. So for us, it would be like our FBI.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
However, they occasionally will act locally as well because it's a small town. So that's how it works.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Yeah. So he's released on bail. They don't seize his weapons, and he's basically effectively just out to continue to wreak havoc and stalk whomever he wants, make threats, and not having any sort of reprimand to that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
A piece of paper saying, stay back, stay away, which we know those are not always the most useful tool. It's great to have it documented, but the only reason it's good to have it documented is for when something severe happens. It doesn't prevent the something severe from ever happening.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
is not gonna protect you no of course not of course not you would hope that law enforcement would be the ones to step in and take those precautionary measures such as seizing the weapons doing something keeping him locked up and i would imagine too even if there was a restraining order in place or whatever that was you were in such a small community so how does somebody even abide by that because he lived very close to you as well correct yeah
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Oh yeah, so just by living proximity alone, he'd be violating whatever restraining order was in place.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
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Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
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Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Wink, wink, you probably are listening and know who I'm talking about you, especially whenever they were stressed out or even, you know... out socially late at night, but I told them about Fume. I let them try the ones that I have, and it has been a game changer for them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
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Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And now it's your turn. And to kick off the new year, use our code CEREAL to get a free gift with your journey pack. Head to tryfume.com. That's tryfum.com. Use code CEREAL and you can claim this limited time offer. That's again, tryfume.com slash CEREAL and use promo code CEREAL to kick your bad habit today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And what was the community saying to that? I mean, that would be, I would imagine, I would be fearful if I ever heard somebody say that. And I would, of course, go to your mother, to your father and warn them. But again, I understand that even if you go to the police with that, it's idle threats. It's nothing that is tangible to arrest somebody. But what was the community's response to that?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
The moment I saw this, I was immediately moved because not only what this girl had to endure and watching her mother and father die and be killed by a stalker who was also a family friend of sorts. This guy grew up with her father. They were best friends. They were childhood friends.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So then to have that level of betrayal on top of it and being a young child and being frightened and then sitting with your deceased parents for hours waiting for the police to show up. The amount of trauma that somebody would endure after that. She has done so much advocacy work. She is so incredibly brave. She was really trying to
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And what would the goal of mediation even be in that moment?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Oh, so she wanted to see did this woman look like her? Was he there to kill her?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Well, I would hope so, yeah. It sounds like stalking was a clear problem if two people were killed in the same week. Right, three. Well, yes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
use her experience to platform better causes and champion other people. So when I saw this video, I was, as I said, immediately moved. I contacted her immediately and basically said, Oh my gosh, your story is so powerful. I am so sorry for what you've had to go through, what your family endured. I would love to talk with you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And your brother was only 17? Mm-hmm.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
The note was written on from your brother on behalf of the stalker. Yes. Okay.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Just the two of them?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
All while you all were still asleep upstairs? Yeah. And how old were your parents when this was happening?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
I would love to give you the opportunity to share your story on my platform. where you hopefully will reach a wider audience where you can affect change where all these goals and things that you want to accomplish can be had. And so we had been talking back and forth for a little bit and she is here now. We flew her out from Canada. She is here with me in Orange County in studio today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And that was at approximately 2.30 a.m. ?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And I really want you to hear from this case from her point of view. It would be so easy for me to share it with you. I have researched it and I have all of the details, but it's not as impactful in my opinion, unless you hear it directly from her, from her firsthand experience. So I am very excited because today I have Fallon Farinacci joining me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
But there was something against the door.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
How how long do you think and I would imagine
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And she is going to talk us through that horrific night, the events that led up to it, and what unfortunately happened even after that nightmare that she and her siblings had to endure.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
From where your brother had left.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And how many calls at this point have been put in? There was the one from your brother. Yeah. Then...
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
so without further ado let's bring in fallon hi fallon thank you so much for joining me today i am really excited to have you here i already mentioned in the intro i saw the viral tick tock i'm not even kidding i haven't even told you this yet i think i was tagged over a thousand times in this oh my god and so i was incredibly moved the second i saw it and i'm just so excited to speak with you in person i'm so happy you're here thank you for coming out thank you um i'm
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And this is at 2.30.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So they were in they were in route, but it was just a ride.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Maybe she was speaking in code. She didn't want him to know that she was trying to get help. So she's like, that's fine. We'll talk in the morning, of course.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
gonna cry right away don't do that it just means a lot thank you no i'm so glad you're here and i'm glad you're having a good time and away from the cold weather so that's good um so what i would love to do is just start at the beginning a little bit i want you to feel as though you can be the one in charge of this telling your story sharing what you're comfortable with and i would love to start more of just your childhood if you could tell me about that and then we can just slowly move in to the times of what happened
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Hold on. I want to just make sure I'm understanding this right. Five hours after he's entered the home now, their priority is evacuating the streets nearby before even making entry into your home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Right.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialist League. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you are ready for a deep dive today, but I also want to give you a little bit of a warning. It's going to be an emotional one. Now, this episode isn't the same format as our normal deep dives.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And this is still around 6, 6.30 in the morning. Yeah, this is in 6.30. Six. Okay.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And how many calls have been made at this point? Several.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Yeah exactly you're reminding him that we're in here and yeah you're drawing attention to it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Now, I keep going back to the timeline, I know, but I guess I'm just trying to really understand here and reconcile it. Are there no 24-7 emergency services nearby, or is it that things are closed down? Like, how is it taking eight hours at this point from when he first made entry into your home for anyone to even come and try to enter?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
When you have a nine-year-old calling multiple times saying, we need ambulances, something's wrong with my dad, there's somebody in here with a gun, and when you have a 17-year-old also saying that, how does anybody equate that to children not being in danger, to anybody not being in danger? That makes absolutely no sense.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
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Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
perks or unlimited perks it somehow always cost me more in the long run and I finally had enough and I switched to mint mobile and I've talked to you about that before because let me just tell you first of all my wallet has never been happier but the process was so so easy I mean honestly I was on the phone I think for maybe five minutes it was so easy and I transferred my number
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
That's high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, all on the nation's largest 5G network. And the best part, like I said, is you can bring your own phone, you can keep your number, and you switch, which is basically like painless. It was so easy. So if you're sick of throwing money away on overpriced wireless, this is your sign.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
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Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
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Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Did they keep you and your brother together or did they separate you?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
What was that moment like?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
The best. Yeah. Man, sorry. I can't imagine. I'm very close with my siblings, and I think that's why, when I heard your story, it just affected me so deeply, because I can't imagine what you went through, and I'm so sorry that you had to experience that. Thank you. You guys were all just so failed as a family.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Yeah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
I'm so sorry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
No, you weren't there. We tried to get you to come there and you weren't. So how are you going to tell me right now?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
What is it like growing up with such a small community? I grew up in what I thought was a small community. It certainly doesn't compare to the size of yours. So I always thought everybody... knew everything about me, that I knew everything about everybody else. What was that like growing up in a community of 300 people?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Great. Well, so then to walk me through, so you're young, you're growing up there. What you had described as, you know, a normal childhood, a normal life. What age were you when you were first introduced to your mother stalker as a family friend even before you knew he was dangerous?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
no well what was that like i'm curious going through your teenage years and dating all the way up to meeting your husband where did you look at relationships differently did you look for red flags and things because you saw the behavior of your mom's stalker and how dangerous situations could become or do you think that you were so young that you didn't carry the weight of that in regards to intimate relationships with you
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
yeah i didn't carry it like that at all um with me um no not it didn't affect anything yeah that's fantastic because i would imagine had you done that it would maybe i like i have my own for another episode my own issues with trust issues and things from my childhood that made me definitely struggle with finding a partner and dating the right people and i think it's so easy and something we don't talk about enough of like
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
the trauma just lives on and it manifests in different ways and it can impact you in different ways. So to hear that it did not hinder you from meeting your person is, that's such a blessing in all of this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Well, and they already had a fractured relationship.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Well, I would imagine, too, if she, it's all strategy, right? But I would imagine that if she's giving you what you want as a young girl, like, or a young teenager, you can live with your best friend. You can move back there. It's almost that she's getting in your good graces so that you think of her as the best. Like, she would never do anything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Or once the shoe drops and you do find out that, like, well, she let me go live with my friend. She loves me. Like, it's all. Yeah. Manipulation. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And is that what you would equate to like what we would call a civil suit here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Were they just looking into it, they're investigating to figure out if there was misconduct, if something was done incorrectly along the way?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Right. Wait, like, why are you blaming her? What more could she have done? She wrote the letter. She reached out to them. She was scared. All of the things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Well, but it's also like the argument could be even if in a perfect scenario they made entry early on, there weren't all these calls, even if it couldn't change the outcome of the deaths, it certainly could change the outcome of the trauma that you and your siblings went through. Absolutely.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
What you witnessed, what you had to sit through, the memories you have, what lives with you for so many years after that. And I don't know what you're comfortable sharing, but I would like to ask you about that because if we're speaking about trauma, your brothers, of course, carried a great deal of weight with them as well. Right.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And can you walk me through with your first brother when he passed away, how old were you and what, whatever events you're comfortable sharing with both of them? Yeah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Should be a standard no matter what. That's ridiculous.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
There's a million what ifs, though, and you can't torture yourself. A hundred percent. Because that weight does not fall on you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
I can understand that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
A great dad.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Let's talk about something that most of us don't really think about until it starts causing us problem and like shoves its way into our life. And that is our endocrine system. It's basically the command center for hormone balance, controlling everything from energy levels and metabolism to mood to digestion to even skin health.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
But thanks to stress, diet and environmental toxins, 80% of women experience hormone imbalances without even realizing it. And if you're like me until it like shoves its way in your life and you're like, what the heck is happening to my body? But that is where flow endocrine superfood comes in because it's more than just a greens powder or multivitamin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
It's actually a must have daily superfood drink that's formulated specifically for women's hormone health. It's packed with over 30 premium ingredients and Flow supports healthy cortisol levels, weight management, energy, gut health, and overall hormonal balance. And unlike those chalky green powders, it actually tastes amazing. I mean, hello, strawberry lemonade. It is so yum, bomb.com.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So if you've been dealing with fatigue, stress, overload, stubborn weight changes, or digestive issues, and if you're like me, I definitely am having that stubborn weight loss and digestive problem as I'm getting older, your hormones might be the culprit behind all of that. And flow gives your body what it needs to function optimally, also naturally, and every single day.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So if you're tired of feeling off, it's time to give your endocrine system the support that it deserves. Try Flow Endocrine Superfood and start feeling like you again. Take proactive care of your health and head to opositive.com slash AE or enter AE at checkout for 25% off your first purchase. That's O-P-O-S-I-T-I-V dot com slash AE for 25% off. Because I had.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
That's really sweet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Yeah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
It was... Well, to have such good friends like that and a support system is a testament to you and who you are truly. I mean that sincerely.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Oh my gosh, that's incredible. That's amazing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So it's still there. Guys, scoop it all in. Go. Don't take it down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Aside from your advocacy work and sharing your story in hopes to evoke change and fundraise and make a difference, have you found it to be any sort of healing for you through sharing it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
i'm taking something away and then i'm leaving the story behind and he was like no no you have to stop thinking that you are leaving you're leaving something behind for other people yeah and i think to your point it's it's amazing that you are resilient enough to continue sharing your story and like dig deep and share what's of course uncomfortable and traumatic but
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
To echo what you already told, I want you to know, too, that when people hear your story, they will learn from it and apply it to their own lives. There will be something, whether it's a small detail or a new value or something they look at differently in their life once they hear your story. So aside from just self-healing, it is helping other people, even if it's indirectly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
And so I hope you know that, truly. Thank you. So you're working on a lot of things. You have a lot of stuff going on at any given moment. I know after this, you're going to LA and you've got things going on. So what is it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Is there anything you want to leave the listeners with in terms of not only where they can find you on socials to follow all of your projects closely and hear more of your story, but any details or any statistics or anything you want them to know?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Absolutely. I'm very happy that you have found who sounds to be an amazing husband and have good kids and have some happiness in your life because I think that that's so incredibly important because even just in resharing your story too, you're dealing with the weight of it every single day.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So to have that outlet of somebody who is so supportive and just loves you for you and you have a family, I think that is just so incredible and I'm really happy for you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
We'll link it here in the show too, just so that it's an easy click. Thank you. Of course, of course. Well, I want to thank you again for joining today and for sharing your story because I know it's never easy each time. So I really appreciate it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
express to you how grateful i am for this space that means a lot well and thank you to all of you guys for listening i know it's definitely a longer episode today but we had so much important stuff to go over i'll be back with you on thursday thank you guys for tuning in check all of the links out below and we'll be back soon all right bye thank you
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
It is definitely going to be a long episode, but we have a very special guest joining us for this episode today. And here's the reason why. Let me backtrack a little bit and let you know why I chose this case that we're talking about today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
No.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
But it's funny how those things... They just have a way of sticking. Yeah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
who knows with trauma right so so your so your mother's stalker was a family friend a childhood friend of your father's correct so but not a close enough family friend that you would ever say he was like an uncle to us or he was close he was just around it was a tight-knit community came to dinner every now and then but no core memories or big things that stand out
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
But just so small and tight knit that, of course, you're going to be friendly and know everybody. Yeah.
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
So at what point, to your knowledge, did things then start transitioning? He, of course, was an alcoholic, as you're saying. He was a bit of a bully in the town and had to get back on the straight and narrow. But when was the behavior shift where it went from him being friendly to people to then becoming fixated on your mother?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
As you know, I get a lot of case recommendations, case requests, suggestions, all of that, whether it's through our website, through email, DM, comments, whatever it may be. Well, a couple of weeks ago, when I tell you the amount of times that I was tagged in this TikTok video, I'm talking like well into over 1,000 times. My notifications were just going crazy. I'm like, what is going on?
Serialously with Annie Elise
252: The Viral TikTok of a Stalker & Family Massacre... Now She's Telling It All | Fallon Farinacci
Now, what had been happening up until this catalyst of events of the birthday? Do you are you familiar? Or do you know, looking back? Or have you heard any information about what that dynamic was like? Had he been just fixated on her did was there altercations with your dad trying to be like, hey, you need to back off like and I know your mom was setting boundaries. What did that look
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, if you take those text messages at face value, it sounds like maybe Hannah had been scammed, that somebody tricked her into handing over some money, right? Maybe got access to her information online, something. So, of course, her friends and her relatives were all asking Hannah for more information. What happened? Who did this? How could they help? All of the things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But Hannah just kept dodging their questions. not really offering any real information. In fact, as the day went on, her story changed in even weirder ways. She texted her aunt about going through a spiritual awakening, and then later on, she even mentioned something about being, quote, intercepted in a metro train. Now, I'm going to be honest right now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Nobody knows how to make sense of any of that. To this day, no one actually knows what she was trying to say in some of those messages. I've seen some speculation online, but since it's speculation, I can't really say how legit it truly is or isn't. But some people have tried to tie all of these text messages together to see if they are related somehow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
For example, one theory that I've heard was that Hannah had made those Venmo payments because she was paying for a psychic reading or a tarot session, you know, card reading, something that might be spiritual or related to a spiritual awakening. But then they're suggesting, or this theory, I should say, suggests that the person she paid might have ripped her off or scammed her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
there's allegations of foul play i mean there's a lot of different stuff to go over and if you haven't guessed by now today we are doing a mega deep dive into the case of hannah kobayashi and again just when you think there haven't been any updates it seems like there are and i'm going to be really curious to know from you guys what you think along the way because
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It's all vague, which makes sense because a lot of this is guesswork and not much is based on concrete information. but it is a theory. But then, in one of Hannah's text messages, she wrote, I'm just really scared, love, and the Redwoods if calling me, and I know I'm meant to be there. I'm being guided there, like you have before. I risk my freedom if this goes the wrong way for me, hun.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now that text message in and of itself felt a little bit off, right? It didn't really quite make a lot of sense. It felt a little not the most comfy. But there was one thing about that text that particularly felt especially off. They all felt off in a lot of ways. Again, don't get me wrong, but I do want to highlight this one thing in particular. So when she was texting,
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Hannah apparently didn't usually call people hun. It just wasn't a term that she used very often. Sometimes in conversation, she would say it out loud, but there's a difference between using a certain word when you're talking versus taking the time to sit down and type it out, letter by letter, you know, H-U-N, hun. Hannah didn't usually do that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She would say hun verbally, but she usually did not text it. And Hannah didn't just type hun in that one particular text message. She was saying it over and over again. She was typing it to a whole bunch of different people. So again, the language that she was using was setting off red flags, making people wonder if maybe somebody else was impersonating her, messaging people on her behalf.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Or maybe there was even some hidden messages that she was trying to get across. Now, on top of all of that, her friends and family said that Hannah usually used emojis all the time. It was constant with her. But in those weird handful of texts that she sent on the 11th, she didn't use a single emoji. Not one.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And it kind of, I get it, it sounds like grasping for straws when you first hear it, but if you really do sit back and think about the people that you text on a daily basis, pretty much everyone has a certain way of communicating, right? Certain quirks, certain way that they sound, whether they use abbreviations or punctuations, capital letters, complete sentences, all of those different things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
You know how your loved ones and those people closest to you type in text. You can tell if they are talking to you in a normal way or not. And everyone who knew Hannah agreed that she was not being her normal self. There was nothing normal about this entire situation. And that was all well and good before she ghosted everybody and went completely silent.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And it didn't matter who was calling or texting. Beginning around the afternoon of the 11th, she didn't pick up or reply to anyone, and her phone pinged for the very last time at LAX. It was almost like somebody just shut it off. So after this, her family reported her missing, and the police jumped right into their investigation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
One early theory was that Hannah was maybe dead or even badly hurt and being held hostage somewhere. Again, the text from her phone just didn't sound like something that she would have sent. So it was reasonable to wonder if somebody had done something to her and now they were impersonating her from her phone. But here's the thing. Hannah was seen that day.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She was alive and well when she was spotted, too. See, she showed up on surveillance camera that was at a metro station in downtown LA. And she was also not too far from the Crypto.com arena. And when she was spotted, she wasn't alone. Now, as for who she was with, at first, the police wouldn't say.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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They didn't even announce whether it was a man or a woman at first, and they definitely didn't announce what they looked like. And needless to say, they were so secretive that, of course, the rumors went flying, and everybody was coming up with their own theories. Most people figured that there were a couple of possibilities here. One idea was that Hannah was fine.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
i would imagine at this point by now everybody is aware of this case to some degree maybe you've seen it on your social media maybe you've seen a news article maybe you've seen it on youtube however again like i said as we like really went into the trenches of it there's something weird here. There's something weird going on, in my opinion. So I want to lay it all out for you.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She was just out sightseeing, living her best life, doing whatever, you know, sparked joy for her. Sure, she was sending some very weird texts, but that could have been because she was too focused on her time in LA and having too much fun to be overly worried about getting, you know, all of her wording right or her normal punctuation or sending the perfectly crafted message.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But another possibility, though... one that the majority ran with, was that Hannah was really in trouble. Maybe the person that she was with was monitoring Hannah's conversation.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, they could have made it hard for her to come right out and ask for help, but she might have been trying to slip in little clues here and there into her conversations to signal to the people who knew her the best that things were not okay. saying things like hun, not using emojis, hoping that somebody might read between the lines.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, I've also seen some speculation that her companion maybe coached her on what to say. So the reason that the messages didn't sound like Hannah were because they weren't crafted from Hannah, meaning even if she was the one physically pushing the buttons and typing out the words, that somebody else might have been dictating it. word for word, everything that she had to say.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Those second two possibilities also sound a lot more likely when you keep in mind that some of the LAPD officers showed that Metro security camera footage to her family. And later, when they described that footage to the press, they said that Hannah did not look well.
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Unfortunately, they didn't get into detail about what exactly it was about her appearance that made them so alarmed and so worried, but the point is, they were upset, and they were getting as much press attention as they could to try and raise awareness. And really, it worked, because around this time, Hannah's case was a huge news story. There were theories all over the internet.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Everybody had a take on what was going on with her. And I'm going to take a moment to share some of these theories because I do think that they're important to the overall story and worth covering. Now, of course, anytime I dive into speculation like this, you know what I say, do your own research. Don't believe things just because I repeat them.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And I'm not necessarily endorsing any of these ideas either, but I just want to present these ideas to you so that you can make your own conclusions. So one theory was that Hannah was trafficked, and I feel like you actually hear that one a lot. Almost any time that somebody goes missing, people jump to the idea of being trafficked.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But in this case, the evidence actually did fit a bit with the idea of trafficking. She had texted about giving all of her money away to somebody that she loved, so maybe a predator groomed her into thinking that they were in love, thinking they had something real. And then the person took her money and her phone and made sure that she couldn't get away and abducted her.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, another theory that I've read is that she went to Los Angeles to join a cult. And again, that did fit with the text messages that she had sent about having that spiritual awakening. That's like the trigger word for every cult, right? It's like that's the entry fee is spiritual awakening, it seems like.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, again, these are just rumors, which I haven't been able to verify, but she was following some... Some sketchy Instagram accounts. I'll leave it at that. Sketchy. These accounts were like Twin Flames types accounts, and they existed to sort of promote certain viewpoints, to lure people in. And if you know anything about me, you know that I do not believe in the Twin Flames nonsense.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I believe in having a soulmate, sure. The Twin Flames cult stuff, I do not believe in for a second. And if you haven't watched the documentary on escaping Twin Flames, I highly recommend that you do so. But also, I did a full episode breaking this down. My sister joined me on it, so I'll link that in the show notes.
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And I will do a brief recap of, you know, what the situation is. But then I want to lay out for you everything that we found and all of the different theories out there too. And I want you to come to your conclusions and let me know what you think.
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But to me, it feels like another guy and his now wife, I believe, who are just trying to extort people for money. All they care about is money, showing their flashy cars, their flashy money. Of course, in order to participate, you have to give a percentage of all of your earnings to them. It feels very Scientology-esque.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It's not like elk, but instead of promising you, what do Scientologists even promise? I'm blanking. It's like the divine future or spiritual enlightenment. They're promising you the love of your life.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
a soulmate so much so that they do make some people change genders too it's pretty wild so I digress but let me just I want to throw that out there so she was following some of these types of accounts which is very concerning in and of itself to me now Somebody else said that she was catfished, that Hannah missed her flight and then stayed in LA for somebody who just never even existed.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And then things just got worse from there. So I mean, the theories just went on and on. Some of them were super wild, super off the wall and outlandish. But some did seem possible. So either way, to recap, Hannah was texting people and seen on surveillance footage on the 11th. And then after that, there was a huge search.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Everyone was looking for Hannah, hoping that she would turn up safe and sound. Her parents flew to LA, they started putting up flyers, they hung them all over the city, and they got to be very involved with the search. And the search lasted for two weeks. And during that time, nobody could find her.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
there was no sign of her anywhere not only did nobody find hannah but they also didn't find any new evidence i mean besides the surveillance video and the text that i already covered there was not a single clue about what might have happened to her so a lot of people who knew hannah and loved her started speaking up there was a huge push to get her name and her face in the news they wanted to raise awareness they wanted to make sure that everyone was watching out for her now even though a lot of people were speaking up
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There were three people in particular who were very central in a lot of this coverage. They kept showing up in interviews and in social media posts. I mean, and everywhere else, for that matter. They were just everywhere, all the time. These people were her sister Sydney, her dad Ryan, and her aunt Loree. Her family even made a Facebook account that was dedicated to finding Hannah.
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And that's where they shared all of their updates. And let me just say, this page did numbers.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
i mean everyone was so fascinated how could people not be i'm not going to repeat myself by rehashing the same points over and over again guys don't worry but for real hannah's disappearance was so weird and so impossible to explain so of course any kind of mystery like that draws people in but unfortunately with that and we see this sometimes with true crime cases that are really buzzy some people don't approach the situation with respect
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Some people want to treat a disappearance like this almost like a game, if you will. So some people even began attacking Hannah's family, picking apart their news reports, their appearances, every little bit and piece that they would say, just saying a lot of really hurtful and, quite honestly, unfair things, trying to get attention, trying to get clicks, trying to show their own unique theory.
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For example, her dad Ryan and her aunt Loree gave a particular interview on November 21st. In this interview, like in any missing person's case, the interviewer was asking basic questions about Hannah, what she was like, what she loved, what her interests were. And throughout the interview, her dad, Ryan, continuously used the past tense when he was referring to her.
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You know, saying things like, Hannah was like this, or she was like that, instead of saying she is like this, she is like that.
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Now, this drove people absolutely nuts. They were all, of course, suggesting that the reason he was using the past tense was because he must have known that she was dead, or even worse, that he had something to do with it. Like, he killed her or he had her killed. And for what it's worth, I'm just going to say, I don't think that this is exactly a slam dunk piece of evidence, not by any stretch.
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Sometimes that's just how people talk. You might say something like, oh, I haven't talked to that friend in...
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
10 years or so but she was really nice okay just because you're saying she was really nice doesn't mean she's dead right you might also say i used to hang out with this guy and he was so cool it doesn't mean that that person is missing or that that person is dead it's just a normal way of speaking so the point in all of that is that hannah's family was getting a lot of hate and it just really did not seem fair
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But they also didn't take a lot of time to try and defend themselves or try and set the record straight because, quite honestly, that just wasn't their main priority. They wanted Hannah to come home safe and sound. But sadly, with each day that passed, that felt less and less likely. which I can imagine how terrible it would be to worry about a loved one, be terrified for their well-being.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And then on top of that, as they become internet famous, you see all of these online theories about what awful things might have happened to them online. It's horrible. So it probably wasn't helpful or encouraging to be surrounded by all of that negativity all the time. But what else could they do? They weren't going to give up on Hannah.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Then on November 24th, there was a huge update in Hannah's case. But unfortunately, it didn't have anything to actually do with Hannah or her whereabouts. Instead, on that day, every headline in every newspaper was all about how her father, Ryan, had been found dead near LAX, that same airport where Hannah missed her connecting flight.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, before her case went viral and everybody was talking about it, Hannah Kobayashi seemed like a normal 30-year-old woman. She lived in Maui, Hawaii, and she was trying to build a career in photography. Now, while she wasn't super well-established yet, she was definitely an up-and-comer, and she had a great future ahead of her. So to all appearances, Hannah seemed happy.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, the initial coverage didn't exactly say what his cause of death was, how he was found, nothing. All of these articles were just saying the same thing, the big idea that Ryan was dead and that he had been found near LAX. That was really it.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So, with no hard evidence or clear details on what had actually happened, I'm sure you can guess what happened next, the rumors and the conspiracy theories, they started flying. Some people were speculating that he was killed by whoever hurt or took Hannah. Maybe he got too close to the truth. Maybe he was on their trail, on their scent. And because of that, he was killed over it.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So because of all of these theories, eventually the LAPD had to come forward and share the truth. And the truth was that Ryan had taken his own life. He jumped off a parking structure near the LAX airport sometime around 4 a.m. on the 24th.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, even with this information now being released and being made public, a lot of people had their hot takes on the situation. Out of respect for the family, I'm not going to be covering them, mostly because they are ridiculous, and I don't think that there's anything to gain from putting those theories out there.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, they're already out there if you want to look, so I guess if you really want to know, you can just go hit up Google, but there are some wild theories. But here's what I do know. Hannah's dad, Ryan, and she didn't have the strongest relationship. He admitted to that during the searches. There were long periods of time where they weren't even in contact with one another.
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And then once she went missing, that was all really difficult on him. I mean, a child's disappearance would be difficult for any parent to go through, of course.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But now, add on this feeling of regret, a sense that you only had a small, precious amount of time left with your daughter, and then you spent that time fighting and not speaking, and now, you might never not even have a chance to rebuild a stronger relationship. I can definitely see how that might have made him start feeling hopeless.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And there's one quote that he gave in an interview that I personally have not been able to get out of my head. He said, I wasn't too close with her growing up. We hadn't had contact for a while. I'm just trying to make up. I'm trying to get her back. That's my main focus. Her aunt, Loree, also described Ryan and Hannah's relationship in a separate interview. Take a listen.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
This was just gut-wrenching, and I feel so much for the Kobayashi family, because to lose one loved one to a disappearance, and then for another relative to take his own life, it's beyond words. But for their part, they tried to keep the focus where they felt like it mattered. They knew that if Ryan was still around, he would want Hannah to be found.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She had a good relationship with her family. She had good friends. She had gone through a breakup recently, which we know that that's never easy. It's never a good time to go through a breakup. But other than that, things were okay. Plus, the breakup was amicable. I mean, as much as a breakup ever can be amicable, right?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So while it was too late to help Ryan, there was still a chance that Hannah might be out there alive. So everyone kept doing what they had been doing. The police were running their investigations. The family members were speaking out. The police weren't releasing many updates, so I don't know exactly what they were looking at or what they had found, but I hope that it was helpful.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And in the meantime, the keyboard detectives, they were riled up, still throwing out their theories and still pointing fingers, still making accusations, but still trying to raise awareness. So at least that part was good in all of it. Now, when I say that Hannah's disappearance went viral, I truly mean it.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
As I said in the beginning of this episode, I would really be shocked if any of you clicked on this podcast or the video version of it without at least knowing a tiny bit about this case. Heck, even Dog the Bounty Hunter weighed in on this and got involved in the discourse that was going on. Because get this, he and Hannah were actually distant family friends.
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So everything is continuing to go viral. It feels like things are finally coming to a swell. And then finally the investigators got one of the biggest breaks that they had been waiting for. They identified the person who Hannah was with on that surveillance video. Okay, tell me if this sounds familiar.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
You sign up for a streaming service to watch the one show that everybody's talking about, cough cough Yellowstone, and then months later you realize you're still paying for it, even though you finished the show ages ago. Been there, right? That is exactly why I got Rocket Money, because it has been a total game changer for me.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Rocket Money is this amazing personal finance app that lets you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and even helps you lower your bills. So it's honestly like having a financial assistant right in your pocket. I love that it shows me all my subscriptions in one place. I had no idea how many I wasn't even using anymore. And canceling them? So easy.
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But the point is, there were no big red flags or anything that was seriously wrong in Hannah's life. Not at all. It seemed like she was working on healing from that breakup, moving on, doing all of the things that brought her joy in life. And all to say she felt like a pretty normal 30-year-old, like I said before.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So I don't know about you, but I'm all about finding ways to make my health journey more convenient and less stressful. And that's why I'm excited to share Ro with you. If you've been curious about medications like Ozempic or Wegovy, but you aren't sure if you qualify or if your insurance covers them, Ro is here to help.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Prescription only. Now, the police still haven't come out publicly and said who this person was, who was with Hannah in that Metro security video. So for ordinary people like you and me, it's impossible to say who Hannah was with during the last day that she was seen in LA. But we do know a little bit more about this person than we did before. First of all, we know that it was a man.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
We also know that once he was identified, this guy cooperated fully with the investigation. He went in, he gave a statement, he swore up and down that he had absolutely nothing to do with Hannah going missing. And whatever his alibi was, it was good enough that the police accepted it. They don't think that he played any role in her disappearance.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But unfortunately, that's all we know about this guy right now. Nobody has come forward to explain what this guy was doing with Hannah or who he was. Nobody has said if they were spending the day together or if he just happened to be next to her for a brief period of time while she was spotted on camera. There's a lot that we don't know, and I think that is all done intentionally and on purpose.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I think that the police are keeping a lot of the information pretty close to their chests. Either way, from what I can tell, this guy has been completely cleared. Now, the next big update came a few days later on November 26th, and let me just say, this one was a huge twist.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She had a lot going on in her life, plenty of things to help her feel connected to her friends and her life. She had no reason to run away or want to abandon everything. And so far as everyone could tell, she also didn't seem to be in any kind of trouble or danger either. So that's where things stood on November 8th, 2024. On that day, Hannah was planning to fly from Maui to New York City.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
This was a humongous shift in terms of how the police were now viewing the case and how they were going to be investigating it. Because that day, the board of police commissioners met, and the investigators gave an update saying that they believed Hannah had missed her connecting flight on purpose.
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Meaning they didn't think that she was just delayed, that she missed her boarding announcement by accident. They think that this was intentional. They also said that they didn't think that anyone or anything helped keep her from making it to New York, that it was all done on her own accord. They thought that her plan from the beginning was to always get stranded in LA.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, unfortunately, they didn't explain how they came to that conclusion. They didn't say if they found some new evidence or if maybe they were just looking at the fact that she was sightseeing, texting people, and seemingly fine, and then drew a conclusion based on that. But either way, if the police are right about missing her flight on purpose, there is a lot to unpack there.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
A lot to figure out. Because a lot of people were wondering why she would even do that. What was she hoping to gain by skipping that flight to New York? I mean, if she just wanted to visit Los Angeles, she definitely could have done that.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She didn't need to go through all of the hoops of booking a job in New York, then missing her flight, missing the gig, lying to her parents, acting like she was trying to rebook a new flight. It just didn't make much sense. She was a grown 30-year-old woman. She could have just said, I want to stay in LA, or I'm going to LA.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So on top of that, the police were also taking a big risk with this new announcement. Because some people might hear that she stayed in LA on purpose and figure that that meant that she wasn't in any kind of trouble at all. And if she wasn't abducted or if she wasn't forced to stay in the city, then maybe her case wasn't a high priority.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Maybe people would stop looking for her because it would seem that it wasn't as important to find her as quickly. Maybe she was just a runaway who wanted to be left alone. Well, Hannah's family didn't want her case to just fall through the cracks, so they stayed extremely active online. They kept giving interviews. They kept releasing new updates.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And then the biggest update came on December 2nd, 2024. That was the date of a huge press conference where the LAPD announced that Hannah had officially been classified as a voluntary missing person. Meaning, like I said before, it didn't sound like anyone had done anything to Hannah, or at least the police didn't think that anybody had.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, of course, they had already said that she had stayed in LA on purpose. But now, by saying that she was a voluntary missing person, they were also saying that they thought that the entire disappearance was voluntary. It's not like she intentionally skipped her flight and then something bad happened to her.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Instead, to hear the police tell it, they just thought that Hannah was out of contact because she wanted to be out of contact. Now, as for how they came to this conclusion? Well, it turns out that on November 11th, Hannah was at Union Station. Union Station is a huge travel hub in LA. Most of the metro, subway trains, and buses all have stops there.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
There's also a Greyhound bus and Amtrak stops that go out of there. So if you want to get from Los Angeles to just about anywhere else and you're not flying or driving, you're probably going to be stopping through Union Station. Now, when Hannah was spotted, she was wearing a sweatsuit and she had a pink suitcase with her.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, I also think it's worth mentioning that this sighting was late in the day. It was late afternoon. It was after she had sent her last few text messages to her friends and family members, meaning that she was still a free person. She was still alive, still okay, after she ghosted everyone.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And while she was at Union Station, she bought a bus ticket that was going to get her to the Mexican border. It would get her all the way to southern San Diego, as far as you can go while you're still technically in the United States. She paid for this ticket with all cash, almost like she was hoping that nobody would be able to track this purchase.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Then, the next morning, at about 6.10 a.m., she took the bus out of town. Unfortunately, weeks had passed between the time that Hannah took the bus and when the police realized that's what she had done. So by the time that they realized that they needed to get to the border to try to find Hannah, it was already too late.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She had booked a photography gig in New York, and she also had some relatives who lived in the area that she was planning to visit with. She also made a little bucket list of sorts of what she planned to do while she was in New York. So this trip was going to be a blend of work and, you know, vacation, a little bit of both. It was a time to see her family, but also a time to make some money.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
The investigators learned that all the way back on November 12th, witnesses had seen her walking into Mexico on foot. That was 12 days before her dad took his own life. Now, there was a surveillance video of her that was filmed at 12.13 p.m., and in that clip, she was clearly alone. Nobody was forcing her along. Nobody was kidnapping her. Hannah didn't seem injured or harmed.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She also still had her luggage with her. She had that pink suitcase that she had flown with all the way from Hawaii to L.A., then it traveled to New York and back to her in L.A. I mean, she had picked it up, and it was with her now. So clearly, this was enough for the police to believe that this was a voluntary disappearance. they still thought that she left willingly.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
at participating mcdonald's for a limited time hey true crime besties welcome back to an all-new episode of serial asleep Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And apparently, they didn't only base this conclusion on the fact that she walked across the border on her own, but also on a comment that she had made at some point before the disappearance. Unfortunately, I don't know when Hannah said this or who she said it to, and I don't know the exact context, but I do know that she said that she wanted to, quote, "...disconnect from the world."
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So from the sound of it, that's exactly what she did. She ditched her phone at LAX because it was found there later, she cut off all of her loved ones, she disconnected about as much as it was possible to do, and then she left the country. She left behind very worried friends, family members, all who had no idea why she would ever do this or if she would ever come back home.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So all of this sounds like, okay, the case is all said and done, right? She left on her own. She didn't want to be found. That's that. Well, Hannah's family doesn't seem to think so. After this press conference, the internet was going crazy. The announcement didn't discourage people or calm things down. In fact, the opposite was true.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Hannah's sister, Sydney, said in an interview that the whole family still believes that she was being controlled when she crossed the border. They don't believe that she willingly just walked into Mexico, leaving her whole life behind her like it was nothing.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, Hannah was also planning on traveling to New York with that ex-boyfriend that I mentioned. Now, as I mentioned earlier, they had an amicable breakup, so it wasn't really like that weird that they were traveling together.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Yes, she was trying to move on from him, but they didn't want to waste and lose all of the money that they had, you know, spent on this pre-booked trip that they were planning to take. So their plan was that they would fly to New York together, and then once they got to New York, they would go their separate ways.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They have been saying since day one that Hannah loved her life. She loved her friends. She loved her family. She loved social media. She loved being on her phone. She never would have given everything up without a word of explanation. She never would have wanted something like this. And even if she did want to do that, she was too considerate to just take off like that.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Up until this, everyone who knew Hannah had also known that she was just such a caring person. She would never in a million years put her family through this kind of pain and heartache, especially not her dad, who you'll remember, took his own life during this search.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So assuming Hannah is who everyone believes that she is, and she hasn't been hiding some deep, dark side of herself for her whole life, she wouldn't let this happen. she would have come forward and explained what was going on by now. I mean, that is, according to her family, if she had any say in the matter.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And if anything, the fact that she still hadn't reached out after her father Ryan's death, it just proved that something weird was going on with her. And one possible theory, a possible explanation, came from an article that was published in Los Angeles Magazine. This article was published on December 4th, and the article was called, Which I bet you can guess what this author's theory was.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Because according to this article, Hannah's mother actually found some kind of documents a short while before she went missing. And these documents showed that she was married and that she had recently had a wedding with an Argentinian man. Have you noticed how the days are getting shorter, but somehow your to-do list keeps getting longer? Just me? Not sure, but it definitely is.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Hannah would go visit with her family, she would do that photography gig that she booked, and then her ex-boyfriend would go do whatever he was going to do, sightsee, vacation, whatever it was. So the flight that Hannah and her ex-boyfriend had booked, it was going from Maui to New York, but it had a layover in Los Angeles, particularly at LAX. Now, here's where things get really weird.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Everything is just packed with flavor. And don't even get me started on their gourmet plus options because the truffle butter filet mignon, I mean, it is so good. It's like having a restaurant quality meal without the takeout prices. Factor also saves me so much time. There's no shopping, no prep, no mess.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So I can focus on important things, especially during these shorter, busier days as we prep for the holidays. I recently got hooked on their pressed juices. I grab one every single time I leave my house. I just pull it out of the refrigerator and it just like makes me feel like I'm being so much more healthy. It makes my gut feel all good and not to get TMI, but you know what I mean?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But like, it's just, I love it. It's like a staple in my morning now. So if you're ready to make life easier and stay fueled this season, head to factormeals.com slash 50AE and use code 50AE to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. That's factormeals.com slash 50AE and code 50AE for 50% off and free shipping. Trust me, you will thank me later.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, I know, stay with me, it sounds pretty out there, very Lifetime movie-esque, and this all could just be another conspiracy theory, but it was published in a legit magazine, meaning there must be or should be some sort of evidence to back this up, at least the fact that the mom found the wedding certificate or license or whatever material she did find.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, it couldn't all be completely made up and out of thin air. So anyway, as the theory went, Hannah's new husband was a man named Alan Kokoske. And allegedly, when Hannah missed her flight from LA to New York, somebody else was on that plane. not just her ex-boyfriend, but Alan and Alan's girlfriend.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It's said that when Hannah missed her connecting flight, Alan stayed in LA with her, all while his girlfriend and Hannah's ex went on to complete the trip to New York. But according to this article, Hannah and Alan's wedding wasn't the result of some sort of secret whirlwind romance. Instead, Alan was allegedly scamming her.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now unfortunately, the LA Magazine article is pretty vague about how that scam actually worked. It talked about it as both an immigration scam, but also a financial scam, but it didn't get into the details. So reading between the lines here, it sounds to me like Alan maybe married Hannah in order to get U.S.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
citizenship, you know, by being married to a citizen, or maybe to get her money, or both, who knows. And then somehow, this plot involved him getting to Los Angeles with Hannah, and then her walking across the border into Mexico. which I don't know. I don't know how that works or how that comes into play. Those pieces don't totally add up for me. It could be true.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Maybe Hannah did get married, and maybe that did have something to do with her motives for going missing. Or maybe Alan or somebody else was involved in this alleged scam and did something to her. But it's all hard to say given what we actually do and don't know. I think that if Hannah did get married, That must be pretty easy to verify and find out.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Hannah and the ex made it to LA. They made it there safely. They landed, they spent some time at the airport waiting for the connecting flight, what was going to take them to New York. But when it was time to board the other plane, that's what the ex did, but not Hannah. He scanned his ticket, he got on, he found his seat, he was like ready to go. But Hannah never did.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
There should be a paper trail, a wedding license, a certificate, all of those things. But of course, the question of whether she's married or not isn't necessarily the biggest question we need answered here. There's also the question of how deep people even should be digging.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
At what point do we decide that Hannah's okay, and we should just respect her privacy, and that she did all of this willingly? Or when do we decide to listen to her parents versus the police and suspect that she is in some real trouble here. I mean, could she have been scammed by this Allen guy and his girlfriend?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
If all four of them were on the flight, the ex-boyfriend, Hannah, Allen, the Allen's girlfriend, that's a pretty big coincidence, right? To all be on the same flight? That seems like it was done intentionally. So does the ex-boyfriend know anything about this? Maybe he has shared things with the police and they just haven't publicly announced that yet because the investigation is ongoing.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They haven't, to my knowledge, announced that the investigation is a officially closed. Maybe it is based on their statement. I don't know. Or was Alan and his girlfriend like tricking Hannah and scamming her? Did Hannah know that there was a girlfriend involved? Did she even know that she was on the flight? Was she in secret and then she found out at the connecting flight? I don't know.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Something is very, very weird. Or could it have been, and I'm just like going here, this is definitely a conspiracy theory here, but my mind is just like in a lifetime movie cycle right now. At the connecting flight when they all deplaned in LA, when they were waiting to get on the next flight, could Hannah have seen Alan with his girlfriend? Maybe a secret.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
kiss maybe they were talking maybe she realized everything was fake and maybe she was so embarrassed that she was scammed that she wanted to get away to mexico could that be why she sent those text messages saying i was scammed i had a spiritual awakening somebody i thought i loved it was identity theft it was all those things did the girlfriend steal hannah's identity i don't know but there's something if there's truth to what this article is saying about hannah's mom discovering that she was secretly married to alan and that alan had a
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
There's something else weird here. I feel like until Hannah just outright comes out and says on video, I'm okay, I'm alive, I just wanted to get the heck away from everybody, I mean, the theories are gonna swirl, the questions are still there, and still her family has no peace. And layer in the other horrific layer of her dad, right? Whatever reason she had for leaving, going to Mexico,
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now her trying to grapple with the fact that her father was so distraught by her disappearance that he took his own life. Maybe that's why she left him. No, because that was 12 days after. So that wouldn't be why she left him. So it's very interesting. Now this is all incredibly mysterious and confusing, right? Nobody seems to be able to make heads or tails of What really happened here?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
What's the situation? And in another twist that kind of shocked everybody, just last week, literally the day after I originally recorded this, her mom and sister released a statement through their attorney saying they found Hannah. They said,
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She never got on the flight from Los Angeles to New York. However, she did text her family though. After the flight took off, she texted them to say that she missed her boarding call, that she missed her flight, which, you know, that's happened to me more times than I care to admit.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
This past month has been an unimaginable ordeal for our family, and we kindly ask for privacy as we take the time to heal and process everything that we have been through. We want to express our heartfelt thanks to everyone who supported us during this difficult time. Your kindness and concern have meant the world to us.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, apparently, Hannah even spoke to a member of the family and told them that she was, in fact, safe. People are wondering, was this conversation in person? Was it a phone call? Was it a text message? Was it truly Hannah? And an LAPD spokesperson said, Okay, now, although Hannah has been found,
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
There is now an article, too, that has come out from the Daily Mail where they're alleging they know the real reason why she disappeared and what this whole thing was about. And it does go back to the secret marriage. So in this article from Daily Mail, and I'm going to just read it because they are the source and, you know... And they're the ones making these allegations.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But they say that not only was it due to this secret marriage, but that it was actually all part of a bigger plan. And it was a green card immigration scam. Saying that on that same flight, not only was she on that flight with her ex-boyfriend, but as I mentioned, she was also on it with her husband, this new husband, Alan.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
In addition to that, it was Alan's girlfriend, Mary Ann, who also, get this, is married to Hannah's ex-boyfriend. You're hearing that right, which let me just break that down again because I know it's like very, very messy and I don't have a flow chart.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But it's basically, it was Hannah and her ex-boyfriend on this flight, Hannah's new husband, Alan, plus Hannah's ex-boyfriend's wife, Mary Ann, who also happens to be dating Alan. So it's kind of like this, not even love triangle, but this messy love square, which it begs the question, was everybody in on this and was it a double kind of immigration scam?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But they are alleging in this article that the only reason they were even on this plane together and taking this trip and doing this marriage and all of the things was So apparently they're saying, and I'm quoting here, The ruse of their sham marriage was already in the works after they tied the knot in October.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Sometimes I'm like either in the lounge or I'm at the restaurant and I'm eating and I'm just like not paying attention and then I miss it. I mean, obviously, I know that's really irresponsible, but it happens, guys. So I'm also guessing because her and her ex were, you know, not together anymore, maybe he wasn't watching out for her.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Pictures of the ceremony were shown to Hannah's colleagues at the Up and Smoke smoke shop in Maui where she worked.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They also say that she had a list once they got to New York where they were going to take photos in front of the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty, Central Park, all to further prove that they were married, that they're in love, and hopefully persuade the immigration officials. But what's weird about all of this is that a co-worker of Hannah's said there was no secret here.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She told us about her plans. They had planned to hop on this trip the last minute because it presented an opportunity for photos of, you know, their, quote, romantic vacation, again, to further persuade the immigration officials.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But her colleagues also said that Hannah had mixed feelings about going on this trip, feeling not only both excited about checking off a location that was on her bucket list, but also frustrated that she was going to have to share a flight with her ex-boyfriend. But again, if you're all in on this plan together, which who knows if they were, why would that frustrate you?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It also still doesn't make a whole lot of sense as to why she disappeared. Why didn't she get on the connecting flight?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Did she get cold feet, and is that what those text messages meant, that she was a part of some sort of scam, that somebody had committed identity theft because maybe she didn't want to get caught for that, that she had this, quote, spiritual awakening because she now realized what she was doing was wrong, yet that doesn't explain why she went to Mexico.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It also doesn't explain why she didn't reach out to her family, her dad, or anything like that. So there still are just a lot of questions about this. It still isn't really making a whole lot of sense.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
However, I also will say this, that ever since her family came out with that statement about her being found and them wanting privacy, they also have said that anybody who donated to their GoFundMe, they would allow refunds up until December 18th. which their online fundraiser on GoFundMe raised over $47,000.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So they said not only are they turning off donations, but that any donor who wants a refund can submit a claim by December 18th and that it'll be honored. Her family also has now spoken out just this last weekend saying that Hannah is refusing to return home from Mexico, that she is not going back to Maui.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Although I can't imagine that once he was seated on the plane, he didn't text her to be like, hey, you coming? Because I would imagine their seats were next to each other. Who knows? I don't know. But in any event, she texted her family and said, hey, I missed the boarding call. I missed my flight. I'm going to catch the next one.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They also are saying, her sister and her mom, they've said they haven't even physically seen Hannah. They have spoken with her on the phone, but they say, quote, we do not have actual proof of where she is, other than she is somewhere in Mexico. But they say that she does not want to return home. They also are talking about the Aunt Loree, who has been very involved in this, of course, as well.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And what's interesting is they're actually saying now that they don't even consider Loree as family. saying that they were kind of criticizing the statement that her aunt gave about Hannah being missing and how she handled the media, so they say they no longer consider her family.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And the direct quote was, "...there were many occasions when my mother and I requested that Loree respect our feelings and tone down her posts and interviews. Our priority was finding Hannah, not creating a media circus." So I don't know what's going on here. I don't know why she's still in Mexico. Her family physically has not seen her, yet she refuses to come home.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Is there still something weird going on? Like, what's the truth here? A lot of people still have questions. Like, is this really the end? What still caused her to leave? Was this, like some have suggested, a Sherry Papini, Carly Russell type situation? Was this something else? When did she talk to the family member? Was it in person? Is she still with somebody else in Mexico?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They just are saying, okay, we found her. We want privacy. But people are kind of like, okay, well, what happened? And look, I don't know what the truth is. I am hopeful for Hannah's sake that... This was just her leaving, whether it's mental health struggles or something else, that there was nothing like foul play or nefarious here.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But I will say, this should serve, if it was at all, for attention, for whatever selfish reason, Sherry, Papini, Elk, whatever it is.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
If it was that, which I'm not saying it is, I don't think it is one way or another, but if it is, it should serve as a cautionary tale for anybody who is thinking of pulling a stunt like that in the future because you want attention or because you just want a few days alone or whatever it is. Look at the fallout.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Not only look at the fallout because of the wasted resources, the public concern, the worry. Look at the fallout with her dad. He was so distraught and devastated by this that he took his own life.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
The flight took off, and she told her family that she was just going to sleep at the airport overnight and then hopefully fly to New York the next morning. I mean, not the most fun plan. If you've ever stayed at an airport overnight, you know that it is literally the worst. But Hannah was a 30-year-old woman. She was responsible. I mean, she could handle that kind of thing.
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So I think sometimes people, again, like Sherry or like Carly Russell, they do these things thinking it's either going to get me attention or it's just because I selfishly want a few days away and I don't know what else to say except that I was abducted or that something happened. But they're not taking it a step further to think, okay, Who am I affecting in the ripple of all of this?
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223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Who might be so distraught of my disappearance that they might take their own life? It's not just a few-day break for me. You are doing some permanent damage. And again, I am not at all suggesting that that's what happened here with Hannah. We don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But if it is that, and if now they just want to wipe their hands clean and say, okay, we're settling this privately, our family's been through something... I just think that that's something to consider for other people who may think that they want to take that path in the future, like the Sherry Papinis and Carly Russells of the world. That's just, you know, my soapbox statement for today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They're still not giving any answers, though, as to what this is, what really happened. So it doesn't seem like it was something mentally health related.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
if this marriage square scam triangle situation thing is true but like what is really going on here and again you layer in the fact of everything that happened with her dad it's just what's going on what is going on and where is her you know husband fake husband alan whoever he is his girlfriend Are they answering questions? What's going on with her ex-boyfriend?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Has he been arrested as part of this scam? Like, what is actually happening here? I am very confused. So I want to know your thoughts. And all to say, even if this case is technically closed, and even if Hannah did disappear voluntarily, there are still a lot of questions that do not have clear answers. There's a lot that we don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So I think it's safe to say that Hannah's story is far from over. But let me know what you think. Let me know in the Q&A section on Spotify. Maybe I'll put up a poll saying, do you think this was voluntary or not? Let me know in the Apple review section on Apple. You can just leave a review and let me know in the commentary area what you think. Please put five stars if you do leave a review.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But... I don't know. I have a lot of questions. So I'm definitely interested to hear what you think. And of course, if you are watching the video version of this on YouTube, let me know in the comment section over there. If you have no idea that I even have a YouTube, I do. It is called 10, like the number, to life, almost like a death sentence or a prison sentence, 20 to life, but 10 to life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
There we have all of these episodes in a video format version where you can see photos, see the videos, see videos of me on the mic talking about this case. And then I have a whole plethora of other cases. I usually
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
release an additional two episodes over on youtube true crime episodes on youtube every week so check that out if you haven't yet all right guys thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode to hear the hannah kobayashi story so let me know what you think all right guys until the next one stay safe don't join any cults don't definitely don't join twin flames um don't disappear always tell your friends and family where you are and just try to watch your back
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
She could problem solve and figure it out. Except the next day came around, and Hannah didn't book a new flight, and she didn't head off to New York. In fact, she was texting her family and now making these very weird comments about how she was now sightseeing around LA. She even named the specific places that she wanted to visit while she was sightseeing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Okay, I think that's all the PSAs I've got for you today. I'll be back on the mic with you first thing Thursday morning with headline highlights where we are breaking down everything going on this week in the true crime world. The new news with Jay-Z, all of the updates happening with that, with the lawsuit. updates with the CEO.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, so many updates going on this week and some brand new cases as well. So tune into that on Thursday. And just to make sure that you don't miss it, take a moment, hit subscribe to this podcast or follow or whatever the verbiage is so that you, it's free, but so that you don't miss those episodes. That was really long winded. I'm going to sign off. All right. Until next time. Bye guys.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Particularly, she wanted to go downtown, and then she also wanted to go to, it's a pretty well-known famous high-end outdoor mall, which we call The Grove. Now, in and of itself, it's not unusual to go and see these things, especially during a trip to LA. A lot of people go to the Grove, a lot of people want to see downtown, even though, FYI, I would highly advise against it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It is super dangerous right now. But maybe she was just in LA for, you know, a while and decided, hey, while I'm here, rather than sit at the airport, I'm going to go check some things out that are nearby. But you also have to remember with that, that Hannah wasn't here for a trip to LA. She was supposed to be getting to New York, not only to see her family, but for work.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And weirdly, Hannah didn't sound like she actually wanted to get to New York. There was no sense of urgency in her text messages. Nothing about trying to find a flight with a seat in it, nothing about trying to problem solve and seem a little chaotic trying to get there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, it would be one thing if she said something like, okay, so I talked to a gate agent and the next flight isn't available for another day or two, so I decided here's what I'm going to do. Instead of staying at the airport, I'm going to enjoy my time here while I can. Something like that, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But there was no indication or any kind of sign that she was even working on rescheduling that flight. It was more like she just wandered out of the airport without even trying to get her trip back on course. Now that was a big deal. Because remember, she really wanted to make a name for herself as a photographer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So the more time that she spent in LA, the more she was now at risk of missing that job that she booked in New York. It was a huge opportunity for her to just walk away from. Not to mention how it could hurt her reputation if she just blew off her client with no advance notice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, I've covered a lot of missing persons cases before, and if you're like me, you might be thinking, okay, well, what if Hannah isn't the one who sent those messages about going sightseeing and going to the Grove and just hanging out in LA? What if somebody got her phone and was sending text messages on her behalf posing as Hannah? What if somebody else had access to her phone?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, they definitely could have pretended to be her, right? We've seen that happen more times than I can count. But the good news is that we know for a fact that Hannah did actually go to the Grove. Specifically, she went there on the 9th. She went into a bookstore, she showed up on their surveillance cameras, and she even signed up for their newsletter.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I hope you are ready for like a deep dive today because this case is very complex and like there are a lot of twists and theories and conspiracies and at first I wasn't going to cover this case, I couldn't quite figure out what was going on, but then as we were researching it, it was like there were so many different
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Then, over the course of that same day, she ended up making two different transactions on Venmo. Now, the other users on Venmo were not people that her family knew at all. They didn't recognize the names of the people, they didn't recognize any of their information, yet Hannah was sending and receiving money from them. At 6.25 p.m., Hannah sent some money to a woman named Veronica Almendarez.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Now, in the field where Venmo asks you what the money is for, where you can put a little note or a memo, Hannah sent two emojis, a box and a bow and arrow. Then, a little less than an hour later, at 7.19 p.m., Hannah also sent money to a man named Jonathan Taylor. Now, this time, the memo description box just read, reading. So this is weird, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I mean, we can all agree that this was pretty confusing. She skipped her flight. She decided to hang out in LA for whatever reason. She was not really focused on getting to that work gig that she had in New York. And now she was sending money to random people who her family didn't even know. But it got even weirder than that on the next day on the 10th.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
See, that day, Hannah apparently went to some kind of event at the Nike store in the Grove. And we know that based on two things. First, somebody else who was also at this event posted a video of all of the people who were there. And for a split second, Hannah showed up in the clip.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
On top of that, she also started posting pictures from this event on her Instagram account. So it was definitely weird and kind of odd that you would spend a two-day layover, but maybe she figured, hey, while I'm here, might as well not get to New York early. I've never been to LA. I don't know if she has or not. I'm just saying, let me go sightsee. Let me go take things in. I get it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Maybe there's some explanation there. So then the day after that Nike event on the 11th, Hannah told her family that she was finally flying to New York. She had booked a flight. She made all the arrangements. She was going to finish this trip that she had originally planned. And sure enough, she headed to the LA airport, LAX.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But instead of actually booking a flight to New York like she indicated she was going to do and, you know, head across the country, instead, Hannah was asking the employees if she could pick up her bag. See, way back on the 8th, when she first missed that connecting flight, Hannah had also lost her pink suitcase. It had made it all the way to New York, even though she didn't.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Then the airport flew the bag all the way back to LA since she never got on the plane to go to New York. So Hannah picked it up when she came back to the airport on the 11th. And this was now basically the complete opposite of what she told her family she was going to do.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Instead of flying to New York, she now picked up her things, grabbed her suitcase and all of her belongings so that she could spend more time in California. And if you're thinking that she must have had a good excuse for all of this, think again. Because that same day, she sent a few very bizarre text messages that didn't make any kind of sense. And then she stopped contact altogether.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
You know that the holidays are always such a special time for me because I love finding the perfect gift. Something meaningful that really says, I care about you. So this year, I wanted to go beyond just socks, underwear, and stuff to give my husband. And I wanted to do something that he would actually enjoy and use.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
so i decided to get him omaha steaks and let me just tell you he is obsessed okay omaha steaks makes it so easy to deliver comfort and joy with their curated gift packages their quality is unmatched too every steak is hand selected by master butchers it's aged for maximum tenderness and flash frozen at peak flavor so it's truly next level Now I recently ordered the filet mignons.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
things and i hate this expression but i'm going to just say it there were so many different layers as you peeled back the onion i mean there's allegations of joining a cult and being scammed through that through twin flames there's allegations of a secret marriage between a man and this woman and he had a wife the whole time or a girlfriend the whole time who helped him do this scam on hannah
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
They are USDA certified tender and oh my gosh, they practically melt in your mouth. My husband grilled them with just a little salt and pepper and he could not stop raving. Plus their sides like the scalloped potatoes are like chef's kiss. It's not just steak, it's like an experience. So if you're looking for a gift that is thoughtful and delicious, Omaha Steaks has you covered.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And right now, you can get 50% off site-wide at omahasteaks.com. Plus, you'll get an extra $30 off when you use my promo code AE at checkout. Minimum purchase may apply. But seriously, give the gift of comfort. Enjoy this holiday season with Omaha Steaks. That's 50% off at omahasteaks.com, plus $30 off with promo code AE. Your friends and family will thank you. Trust me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Hey everyone, it's Annie here. And I just want to let you in on something that has truly been a game changer in my life lately. And I'm talking about my new Helix mattress. You know, we all talk about the importance of sleep, but it's not until you're actually getting great sleep that you realize how much it can impact, well, everything. So let me take you into my figurative bedroom for a minute.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
But before Helix, I was struggling with staying comfortable throughout the night. I'd wake up with back pain, hip pain, or I would lose a full night of sleep tossing and turning, and I'd feel like I never even slept. But with Helix, that all changed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I took their quick sleep quiz, and based on my preferences, Helix matched me with a mattress that was designed just for me, and they really got it right. So I've had my Helix now for I think two years it is. And honestly, my sleep quality has skyrocketed. I even checked my aura ring, which you guys know I wear, and the data doesn't lie.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I'm getting deeper sleep and my restlessness has dropped dramatically. Plus, I'm finally waking up feeling refreshed without any aches and pains. I also got my mom hooked on this. She spent the night one night over Thanksgiving and she's like, oh my God, this bed, it feels like a cloud. So I got her a Helix and she loves it. So if you're in the market for better sleep, now's the time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Helix is offering a deal of 25% off site-wide and two free Dream Pillows with any mattress purchase. And if you go with a Lux or Elite model, they're throwing in a free bedding bundle, two Dream Pillows, a sheet set, and a mattress protector. Just go to helixsleep.com slash serialistly to take advantage. Trust me, you deserve this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
It has made such a huge difference for me, and I think you're going to love it too. So before Hannah cut off contact with her family, she sent a few bizarre texts to the people that she knew. And when I say bizarre, I really do mean it, okay? Nobody was able to make heads or tails of what she was saying.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
In one text to a friend, she wrote, "'Deep hackers wiped my identity, stole all of my funds, and have had me on a mindfuck since Friday.'" Another one said, "'I got tricked pretty much into giving all of my funds away for someone that I thought I loved.'"
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And to give you a sense of how serious they were, at one point, the detectives even set up roadblocks, and they would stop any driver who happened to come through. They would show them a photo of Amber, they would ask if they had seen this girl, or in general, if they had seen anything suspicious in the area recently. They would just try to get answers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
other officers went up to the kids who lived in the neighborhood to see if they had any information too not just information about amber specifically but they wanted to know where different children would like to go where they all hung out where the secret spots were were there any places they would sneak off to in order to get away from their parents anywhere that amber might have run away to or where her kidnapper might have run away to you know if she had been maybe taken by an older kid or even a teenager i mean seriously they were looking at every single possibility
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
There was no scenario that was too out there or too wild for them to explore. But no matter where they looked or who they talked to, they found nothing. Eventually, they brought in the FBI to help them investigate. And if there's one silver lining to this whole situation, it's that kidnapping is a federal crime.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
So even though the police still didn't know for sure if Amber was kidnapped or not, their suspicions were strong enough that they could ask for extra help. They could bring in the big guys, the big team, right? So the FBI agents and the police worked together to set up a system that would manage all of the hundreds of tips that were pouring in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
In December of 1997, the people of Oklahoma City were feeling very festive, very excited for the holidays. Kids were counting down the days until the holiday break, parents were busy wrapping gifts and presents, and families were, of course, putting up all of their holiday decorations. Now, at that time, a little girl, 10-year-old Amber Renee Barker, lived in the city with her mom.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And I mean, when you have that many officers out there, cars pulling cars over, chatting up the local kids, doing all the things, you do end up with a ton of information you need to vet through. The issue was that they didn't know how much of that information was relevant or useful. So the next step was to sift through everything, figure out what was important, sort everything out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Well, as the saying goes, quantity doesn't always equal quality. Because even though there were hundreds of tips flooding in, the investigation was going nowhere. Everyone in Oklahoma City, especially in the area where Amber lived, they had their eyes peeled, but nothing was happening.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
They all agreed that they would report anything that they saw or anything that they noticed, no matter how small or how significant it might have felt, but they still ended up with nothing. That is until the night of the 20th. And to give you a sense of the timeline, that still is just two days after Amber went missing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And that's when the police got a phone call from a woman who said that she found a single shoe that looked like it belonged to a young child. Now, when Amber had gone missing, she had been wearing dark pants, a cream long-sleeved shirt with a brown collar, and No Excuses sneakers. The shoe that the woman had seen was also a No Excuses sneaker, and it was also the right color and size.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
So when the police went and recovered this shoe and showed it to Amber's mom, Bonnie, she said right away that it was Amber's. It had to be. The shoe was found 20 blocks south of Amber's house and 13 miles from Denniston Park, that park where all the kids hang out. also where Amber's bike had been found.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And once the police found the first shoe there, they began searching the area to see if they could find any other clues around, which was a good call, because they ended up finding a lot. At around 9 a.m., the investigator saw a second shoe, the other half of this pair. It was a few blocks away from where the first shoe had been found.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Then, at around 1.40 p.m., the same day, her beige shirt was found in some bushes. After that, they found a sock. And then, one of Amber's sisters found a silver ring on the side of a street. It was the same style and same size as a ring that Amber wore all the time. So basically, these items were scattered all over, several blocks apart from one another, yet all in the same neighborhood.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
It was almost like a trail of breadcrumbs leading towards something, something bigger. Now Amber's pants, underwear, and her other sock were never found. But the evidence from the items that were found was extremely troubling, because her sweater had vomit on it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And inside the vomit, the police found something that they believed could be semen, but they couldn't confirm that that's what it was for sure, which, more on that in a second. I do have to say, though, that this detail is especially disturbing if it's true.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Because if Amber was vomiting, and if her throw-up had semen inside of it, then that tells you a little bit about what might have happened to her after she was kidnapped. And it tells you what sick, horrible things her abductor subjected this young, innocent 10-year-old girl to. One of her shoes also had a tiny speck of blood on it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
The investigators wanted to look at the DNA in the blood, but the sample, unfortunately, was too small. There just wasn't enough of it there for them to get anything useful out of it. However, the material that may have been semen was a little bit more helpful. Again, there wasn't enough of it to get any solid DNA, but the police now knew something important.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And even though Oklahoma City was pretty big, Amber and her mom had a home in the cozy, close-knit neighborhood just northwest of downtown. It was kind of the place where the neighbors all knew one another, the kids all played outside until the streetlights came on. You know the vibe, right? Now, Amber had a big family with a bunch of brothers and sisters.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
that amber's abductor and kidnapper most likely was a male they also believed that her kidnapper almost certainly assaulted her in a sexual way after abducting her there were also blue fibers on amber's sweater and this was important because amber's older sister debbie had an ex who drove a silver mitsubishi with a blue interior the carpet was blue the seats were blue even the dashboard was blue and this ex was 24 year old daniel smith
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And I know what you guys might be thinking. Uh, that's a bit of a stretch. I mean, a lot of people have blue seats or blue carpet on their cars, so how does the presence of blue fibers tell the police enough to make them take a closer look at the ex-boyfriend Daniel? Well, Daniel wasn't just some random guy who Debbie had a fling with for a week or two or something like that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
They were very serious. They actually had a common-law marriage because of how long they were together. They also lived together and had a daughter together. In spite of all of that, though, their relationship was rocky, and that's putting it mildly, actually. Daniel and Debbie fought all the time, non-stop. And Debbie didn't feel comfortable or safe around Daniel sometimes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
So at one point, she actually ran away to get away from him. She took her daughter and she went all the way to Oregon to stay with some other family members. She didn't tell Daniel where she was because she didn't want him tracking her down. Now, on the day that Amber went missing, Daniel was at Bonnie's house trying to find Debbie and his daughter.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
He was also there when Amber called her mom to say that she was about to head home at 5.45 p.m. And when the police first questioned him, he admitted that he was there and he heard this phone call. And then, right after that call, he hopped in his car and he drove off. Pretty suspicious timing, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Well, according to Daniel, his decision to leave right after that phone call right then and there had absolutely nothing to do with Amber. His main focus was on finding Debbie and finding his daughter. Remember, they had left to go stay with family in Oregon. Now, at that time, he had been at Bonnie's house for long enough to confirm that they were not there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
So he says it was time for him to leave, to look somewhere new, and to move on to the next place. But eventually, according to Daniel, he realized that he wasn't going to make any progress that night. He wasn't going to track Debbie down. So to unwind, he went to a club and he had a beer. Then, once he had blown off some steam, he said he got a second wind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
So he headed out to keep the search going. For Debbie, not Amber. The problem is that the police were never able to verify this story. They couldn't find anyone who was willing to come forward and say that they were with Daniel or that they had talked to him around that time or had even seen him at that nightclub. Nobody who could clear him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
There was absolutely nobody who could confirm that Daniel went to that bar or had a beer there. And it's not the most damning situation, I will admit. If you're driving all over town trying to find your ex or trying to find out which of your ex's friends they might be staying with, you're probably going to spend a lot of alone time in the car.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
You're not going to have a lot of eyewitnesses around to vouch for your whereabouts. And if you're also at a bar where nobody really knows you or recognizes you, how likely are the people really going to remember your face and be able to tell the police that you were there? If Daniel's testimony was true, it makes sense that he would have a hard time confirming his alibi.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
But now you add in the blue fibers on Amber's clothing, and it just didn't look good. But here's where it gets weird and kind of confusing. See, Amber's mom, Bonnie, claimed that Daniel wasn't at the house when Amber first called her. She said that Daniel left several hours before the phone call.
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She was the youngest in the family, in part because her parents got a divorce while her mother was pregnant. So they split up before she was born, which also, fun fact, she was born on Valentine's Day in 1987. She mostly lived with her mom, Bonnie, and the two of them were very, very close.
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So it's not like he heard her on the phone and then he hopped into his car and seized that chance to go kidnap and hurt Amber. It didn't even sound like he had any way of knowing that Amber would be out on the street at that time. But someone else was at the house who also said that Daniel was there when Amber called. His name was Joseph Bishop.
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Joseph was in his late teens and he was dating Brandy, another one of Amber's sisters. Anyway, Joseph was at the house too, and he told the police that Daniel was definitely home when Amber called home. Not only that, but he was confident that Daniel overheard the phone call. He also said that Daniel left immediately after Bonnie hung up.
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And according to Joseph, generally, when Daniel left Bonnie's house, he would turn east and head back home. But this time, he went west, the same direction that Amber was coming from, the direction of her friend's house. Joseph was eventually given a polygraph test, and he passed, so the police had absolutely no reason to believe that he was lying.
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But at what point do all of the coincidences here start to add up, and... You know, the expression where there's smoke, there's fire comes into play. Because Daniel was going in the same direction of Amber. There were blue fibers that were found on her clothing. He had blue fibers in his car. What about the confusion over whether Daniel was even at the house at the time?
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I mean, why would Brandy say he wasn't there, but Joseph said he was, and Joseph passed the poly? Was Bonnie possibly just distraught over her missing daughter, not remembering these crucial, critical details of that day? Or is it suspicious that Joseph is pointing fingers? Now, as if all of that isn't enough, Daniel also had a very troubling history.
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Just one month before Amber's disappearance, there was a domestic disturbance at the home where he lived with Amber's sister, Debbie. And because the disturbance was so intense, somebody called the police. Debbie told the officers that Daniel had hit her after she refused to have sex with him. Daniel wasn't arrested, however, he was given a citation. Now, if you think that's bad, get this.
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In 1995, he had been convicted of an attempted kidnapping. So again, I think you can tell from that alone why the police thought that those blue strands on Amber's clothing, it was definitely worth taking a closer look at it, right? And that's before I even tell you about the details about the attempted second kidnapping of his. Yes, second. Okay, confession time.
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I don't have a cat, but I have thought about getting a cat, and my best friend has a cat, that's why, and I feel like her cat is basically part of the family at this point, and every time that she visits or I visit, this cat literally acts like a celebrity.
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Now, Amber, being a young 10-year-old kid, she was afraid of the dark, and because of that, she refused to sleep in her own bedroom. Instead, almost every single night, she and Bonnie would watch a movie together in the living room, and then they would fall asleep on the couch together. Amber was also close with her dad, Robert. She was a bit of a tomboy. She liked to work on cars with her dad.
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I mean, demanding attention, and of course, you know, eating only the best food, and that's why I have to recommend Smalls to my best friend, and let me tell you, it has been a total game changer. Small's cat food is made with protein-packed recipes and preservative-free ingredients that you'll find in your own fridge.
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It's delivered right to your door, and even Cats.com named it the best overall cat food. Since switching to Small's, my best friend's cat has like this softer fur, fewer hairballs, way more energy, plus their litter box, it's like way less smelly if I'm being honest, and that's kind of why I've actually even considered getting a cat.
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And her cat's favorite flavor is the turkey recipe, and I swear they actually get excited when they hear the food bag now, truly. Smalls started in 2017 when a couple of guys just home-cooked fresh cat food for their friends, and now they have served millions of meals to cats across the U.S. and for good reason.
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Other cat food brands fill their products with weird preservatives and byproducts, but Smalls keeps it simple and fresh, exactly what our little furry family friends deserve. So what are you waiting for? Give your cat or your family member's cat or your best friend's cat the food they deserve. Head to Smalls.com and use promo code AE for 50% off your first order plus free shipping.
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That's Smalls.com with promo code AE. One more time, Smalls.com, promo code AE for 50% off and free shipping. I'll admit it, the beginning of 2024 was rough when it came to sleep. Most nights, I would just lie there tossing and turning, staring at the ceiling, hoping that I would eventually doze off. And then, when I finally did, I would wake up feeling like I barely slept at all. The worst part?
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It wasn't just about being tired. It was affecting everything. My focus was all over the place, I felt irritable, and honestly, even small tasks, it just kind of felt like climbing a mountain. That's why I'm so excited to share what changed everything for me. Beam's Dream Powder. This stuff is a game changer.
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It's a science-backed healthy nighttime blend that actually has been clinically shown to improve sleep. And let me tell you, it works. Since I started using Dream, my sleep has been incredible. No more restless nights. I fall asleep faster, stay asleep. I wake up feeling refreshed, not groggy like with other sleep aids. It's a total win.
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I've also gotten like all my family members hooked on it, my friends, my colleagues at work, literally at least at minimum 50 people probably. Now the secret is the ingredients because they have a natural blend of all sorts of different things like magnesium, melatonin, L-theanine, and it helps you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up ready to go. Plus it is delicious.
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My favorite flavor is anything that is like chocolate related because it's like this cozy little treat right before bed and it makes me not feel like I need to eat dessert. So it is great. And now that it's 2025, I am determined to keep this momentum going. Dream has been a staple in my nightly routine, and I feel so much better because of it.
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So if you've been struggling with sleep, this is your sign to try it. Right now, you can get up to 40% off Beam's best-selling Dream Powder for a limited time. Just go to shopbeam.com slash Annie Elise and use code Annie Elise at checkout. That's shopbeam.com slash Annie Elise and use code Annie Elise for up to 40% off. Sweet dreams.
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It was really something that they bonded over. And the two of them talked about Amber learning how to weld when she got a little bit older. She was also very artistic. She was making pictures with spray paint. Her favorite colors to use were blue and green. I mean, she just had so many amazing characteristics about her.
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So Daniel Smith, the shady partner of Amber's older sister, Debbie, had been convicted once before of attempted kidnapping. See, one night, a woman was leaving a club in downtown Oklahoma City. She was walking toward her car when a man jumped out from where he had been hiding. He crouched over near the driver's side door of her car, just kind of waiting for her to come out.
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Well now, as this woman got closer, the guy attacked her. He was able to get her keys away from her, and then he opened the front door of her car. He tried to shove this woman inside, and even grabbed her by the throat, choking her. It isn't clear exactly what happened after that, but somehow this woman did get away.
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She called the police, and they eventually learned that this man who had attacked her, Blitz attacked her at that, was Daniel, so they arrested him. And the woman was positive that Daniel was trying to sexually assault her as well, but Daniel claimed that he just wanted to steal her car.
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I mean, not the best defense in the world, because car theft is also not a good look, but I can see how maybe he thought that that was a better defense than admitting that he was committing, you know, a violent crime. But since he did claim that this was an attempted theft, he was only charged with robbery at first. Eventually, though, the charge was upgraded to kidnapping.
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Then at one of Daniel's court hearings, a bouncer from the club testified against him. But as soon as this guy was done giving his statement, Daniel stood up right there in court, in front of the judge and jury and everybody else, and he said, as soon as I get out, you're a dead man. So after that, Daniel was also charged with intimidating a witness.
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Which, honestly, what did he really expect to happen in that moment? I mean, how did he realistically think that this would all play out for him? To literally threaten a witness in front of everyone, including a judge. I mean, not the brightest move. Now let's just say, Daniel does not sound like the brightest crayon in the box, okay? But he did do one smart thing.
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He took a plea bargain, and he pled guilty to attacking this woman. And in exchange, he received a five-year deferred prison sentence. So basically, this meant that if Daniel could be on his best behavior and not commit any more crimes and followed certain rules that the judge gave him... he could avoid going to prison. So Daniel was sent to this sort of boot camp for only four months.
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Specifically, it was the William S. Key Correctional Center for Young Adults. And actually, he did well there. He followed the rules, he did all the things that he needed to do, all so he could avoid going to prison. In fact, Daniel even went back to school.
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He had dropped out when he was 15 years old, so he never got his high school diploma, but at the correctional center, he was able to take classes and get his GED. So it really did seem like he was turning things around, like he was back on the right track and living a better life. And when the judge saw how well he was doing, he felt for him, especially given Daniel's background.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are all having a good start to your week so far, had a good weekend. We are going to dive right into today's case. It's actually one that came from TikTok.
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because apparently he had a very rough and difficult childhood. He had been in the foster system since he was just six years old. He had also abused drugs, and he had a pretty bad drinking problem. But that was all changing now. Daniel was doing good enough that the judge decided he needed some encouragement. He needed to see that his good work was paying off.
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Now, at 10 years old, Amber was in the fourth grade, and she was definitely a bit of a teacher's pet. She was very responsible, she always followed all of the rules, and her favorite task that she especially loved was being a hall monitor, which I didn't even know that those things existed, okay? I thought that was just something from, like, sitcoms or movies. But she loved to do it.
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So that is when the judge decided to drop those witness intimidation charges from the trial. And after that, Daniel was just put on probation. He still had to attend weekly AA meetings and regular counseling sessions. He also had to find a job, not necessarily a full-time job, but a job, at least part-time work. And he was meeting with his parole officer regularly.
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But as far as that was concerned, he was a free man. And of course, like I mentioned before, he was with Debbie. They were common-law married, even though they had never had a wedding. So because of that, it should really go without saying that he saw Amber quite a bit. She was his wife's sister, after all. I mean, they were a part of each other's lives.
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Well, as it turned out, Amber didn't like Daniel. And I mean, she really didn't like him. I mentioned before that Amber could be very shy with people that she didn't know very well, right? But eventually, more times than not, she would warm up. But that's not at all what was going on here. Amber was literally afraid of Daniel.
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She was outspoken about it too, and she would tell anyone who would listen that she was afraid of him, and more than that, afraid of one thing in particular. She was afraid that he would take her away from her home one day. On the day before Amber disappeared, she told her dad Robert and her brother Eddie that she was scared of Daniel.
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Apparently not too long ago, he tried to shove her into his car. So this wasn't some sort of idle fear or paranoia. She had a reason to be scared of him. She also said that she had managed to get away from him and ran inside the house. But either way, she was very reasonably not comfortable around Daniel. She didn't know if or when he would try something like that with her again.
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That same day, she also had a conversation with her mom where she said that she had seen Daniel driving by their house. She thought that he was there to look for her, to keep tabs on her, to get a sense of when she was home, what her schedule was like, all of the weird stalkery things that people do. Which, how awful is that?
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I mean, first and foremost, for any 10-year-old girl to be afraid of somebody in general, but a 10-year-old innocent girl to be afraid of their sister's boyfriend slash husband, somebody who is so personally involved and intertwined in your life, that is extremely terrifying.
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And I'm just speculating, but I do have to wonder if this might have been the reason that Amber went to her friend's house in the first place.
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I mean, I know that she and her friend hung out a lot, and it's not like she needed, you know, a big solid excuse to go and see her friend, but I also have to imagine that if she was feeling unsafe in her own home, and like maybe this creep was always watching her, maybe she just wanted to get away from him.
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She might have wanted to go somewhere where she felt a little more secure and like she had a little bit more privacy. I even wonder if you could go a step further, maybe, and speculate that it might have been part of the reason that she didn't like sleeping alone. Maybe it wasn't fear of the dark.
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Maybe she might have also been worried, rightly, as it may have turned out, that if she was alone in her room with nobody watching her, Daniel might come in and do something to her. So all to say, there were a lot of reasons and...
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past experiences to warrant finding daniel suspicious he had all the red flags you could think of so the police brought him in for an interrogation they asked him all their questions but they didn't find a smoking gun now he didn't say anything to let them clear him but he also didn't break down and confess or say anything to implicate himself either
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And whenever anybody asked Amber about what she wanted to do when she grew up, she would just tell them she already knew. She wanted to be a veterinarian. She loved animals. Now, Amber could be shy and she could be quiet, but she would also open up to people that she knew a little bit better, like her family and friends. She liked spending time with her friends after school.
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They asked if he would come back though and take a polygraph test with the FBI, and Daniel agreed. But then, the day that the lie detector test was scheduled to happen, he just never showed up. Now on top of that, he also missed his AA meeting, which that was a parole violation. So this was now enough for the police to bring Daniel in.
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They didn't officially name him a suspect, but they did send some squad cars out and officers to find him to take him back to the station. The problem was, they couldn't find him anywhere. There was absolutely no trace of where he had gone. Finally, on the night of Sunday, December 21st, Daniel's car was found. It was abandoned at a local gas station, but Daniel was nowhere around it.
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The police searched his car, but they didn't find much. They did find some brown hair near the passenger side door, which I'll say right there, the police never publicly confirmed whose hair it was, but given that Amber also had brown hair, it felt like it was another clue, another red flag. The next morning on Monday, December 22nd, the search for Daniel continued.
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A neighborhood watch group was helping the police scan the neighborhood looking for him too, and in the early morning hours, they found Daniel. He was in a park less than one mile from where his car had been found. The problem was, he was dead. And it was clear that it was by his own hand. Which that also is one more, you know, red flag of suspicion in this whole case, right?
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Was he so guilty and so nervous that he was going to get caught that he just suddenly decided to kill himself? And unfortunately, that stalled the investigation into finding Amber. Even with the police and the FBI working through Christmas, working through the new year, they weren't able to find anything about what had happened to her.
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Like everyone else, Amber's mother Bonnie had felt hopeful at first when Amber was first declared missing. Bonnie felt confident that Amber would be found, that she would get home, she'd be safe and sound.
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She prayed that Amber would just walk in the front door at any minute, that she would see all the presents under the tree, that her eyes would light up and they could celebrate Amber's favorite holiday together, that they would, you know, have a happy Christmas and everything would go back to normal. But instead, Bonnie now had to learn to live with this whole new definition of normal.
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And it was made much worse by Daniel for him taking his own life and taking whatever information he might have known with him. There were so many unknowns. The police didn't even name Daniel as a suspect, which is very frustrating because I already ran through all of the evidence against him. The timing of his death also certainly sounds suspicious. I mean, that's a red flag in on its own, right?
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But from the sound of it, even with all of those clues, all of those leads, those like weird circumstances and coincidences, It wasn't quite enough for the police to publicly come out and say that he did it, or that he even had something to do with it, or that the disappearance was solved. I mean, nothing.
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On the weekends, she would go to the local park with them. She'd ride bikes around the neighborhood with them. I mean, just really wholesome things. So Thursday, December 18th, was a relatively normal day. Amber woke up, she got dressed, she ate breakfast, and she went off to school. Afterwards, she got home and she hopped on her bike like she always did. A blue 10-speed bicycle.
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Time went on, and every couple of years, the authorities would release age-progressed photos of Amber. They would ask if anybody had seen her. Occasionally, tips would come in here or there with people saying that Amber is alive, that she's living in different areas in the United States, you know, all of the tips that we always hear. But none of those tips panned out.
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But that is not the end of the story. Starting with, in 2007, Amber's father, Robert, died. And six years later, in 2013, her sister, Brandy, also passed away. And the circumstances around her death were a little suspicious. A month before her death, Brandy moved from Oklahoma City to a smaller town in Oklahoma to be with her boyfriend. And this guy, I'm sorry to say, was bad news.
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Soon after Brandy moved, her boyfriend just left her. Like, she literally had uprooted her whole life. She went to a place where she had no family, no friends, no job, all for this guy, and he just, like, booked it, ghosted her, and peaced out. I don't know the full context here. I mean, maybe the relationship was already rocky, and Brandy only moved with him as a last-ditch effort to save it.
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Maybe she did something that was a red flag or a deal-breaker for him after she moved in with him. I don't know. Or maybe he was just this massive asshole. I don't know the full situation. There's a lot of possibilities. But what I do know is that Brandy moved to be with this guy, and now they were broken up and she had nowhere to live.
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She also was unemployed and didn't have the money to rent her own apartment. So instead, she ended up living in a trailer. The man who owned the trailer and who usually lived there was in the hospital, and I'm guessing that she must have gotten a good deal on rent or something, maybe it was even free, I don't know, but the point is she was staying there rather than letting it sit around empty.
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Then sometime in the summer of 2013, a bunch of huge storms, which included tornadoes, hit the area where Brandy was living. And then one morning, Brandy was found in a ditch, 20 feet from her trailer. Her clothes were also all scattered all around her on the ground.
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She rode a few miles north to go see a friend over at their house. And keep in mind, Amber made this trip all the time. It took her maybe 10 minutes to get to the friend's house. That's it. And this was somebody that she knew and hung out with most days after school too. So again, everything was just normal and very routine that day.
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The ditch was full of water, and the police ruled that Brandy must have gotten caught in one of those storms, and then she had drowned because of it. But a lot of people did not agree with their findings. 2025 is finally here, and let's be real, who actually sticks to their New Year's resolutions, right?
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Skip the gym memberships you'll never use, the impossible diets you might hear about, all the unrealistic goals, and this year, let's make a resolution you can stick to. Saving serious money with Mint Mobile. I made the switch, and wow, let me tell you, compared to my old provider, Cough Cough Sprint, you suck, Mint Mobile is a total game changer.
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I used to dread those shocking monthly bills, but with Mint, I am paying way less, like half of what I used to, yet I still get premium service. And right now, Mint Mobile is dropping a huge savings for the new year. You can get any three-month plan for just $15 a month. That even includes their unlimited plan.
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So yeah, $15 a month for unlimited talk, text, and high-speed data on the nation's largest 5G network. Plus, let me just tell you, switching was so easy. You can bring your current phone and number with you. You don't have to switch any of that. There's no hassle. There's no headaches. You just sign up online and they will ship your new plan right to your door for free.
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So ditch the overpriced nonsense and join the smart wireless movement with Mint Mobile. New customers can get half off an unlimited plan until February 2nd. So that's three months of service for just 15 bucks a month. Head to mintmobile.com slash AE to grab this deal. That's mintmobile.com slash AE. Forty five dollars upfront payment required equivalent to fifteen dollars a month.
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New customers on first three month plan only speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See MintMobile.com for details. Apparently, according to the gossip, there wasn't even a storm the night when Brandy died.
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On top of that, her body had a really bad head injury, and it didn't seem like the sort of injury that you would get from hitting a piece of, you know, flying debris that was being blown around in the wind. It seemed much more serious. Now, that didn't automatically mean that Brandy died due to foul play, because apparently she also had a history of drug use.
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So one theory is that she got high, that she wandered out of her trailer, and then she passed out, hit her head, and either overdosed or drowned in that ditch that was filled with water. If that's the case, maybe the police were trying to protect her reputation when they say that she died in a storm. You know, it was a polite lie so that they wouldn't be speaking ill of the dead.
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Debbie, her sister, has said that she believed that theory. But even as she was saying that, you know, going to reporters and saying that she thought it was an overdose, she also made a point of saying that Brandy's ex was really bad news. Apparently, about a month before her death, this ex had attacked Brandy. He allegedly had beaten her up and he had cut her throat.
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So this led some people to think that maybe he or somebody else murdered Brandy and then got away with it because of her past history with drug use and the fact that she lived in this tornado county and all of these, you know, coincidences that could explain it away. And sadly, the tragedies don't stop there. A year after Brandy died, Bonnie also passed away. That's Amber's mother.
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Another thing that was normal was that Amber's mom, Bonnie, had a rule. Be home before sunset. Like I said, Amber was pretty responsible. She was a big rule follower. So usually there weren't any issues around this rule. She had to be home by sunset, and she always was. Except that day, by 5.45, it was already dark, and Amber still wasn't home.
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She died from natural causes. She died without any concrete answers about the real cause of death for both Brandy or Amber. But up until her death, Bonnie always maintained that Daniel did something to Amber. Specifically, Bonnie thought that Daniel killed her. Although it was hard for Bonnie to admit that because in one interview, she said that she never wanted to give up hope.
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She never wanted to let go of the possibility that maybe someday Amber would come back home. You know, come in the door and she would be fine. But as the years went by, that looked less and less likely. Even Bonnie had to admit that if Amber was alive out there somewhere, that she would have found a way to get in touch with her by now. She would have gotten in touch with the family eventually.
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Even if she was being held hostage or something horrible like that, she believes that she could have figured out a way to either get out or get the message out. And the fact that she didn't seemed like confirmation that Amber sadly was deceased.
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But not everybody agrees with Bonnie's take, because you'll remember that Daniel was common-law married to Amber's sister Debbie, and that the two of them had a daughter together. Well, almost any time that Debbie gave any kind of interview, she would say that she believed that Daniel was innocent, that he had nothing to do with Amber's disappearance.
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Debbie also claims that she knows who did it, and that she's told the police that. but she has never come out with a name. All she'll say is that the real kidnapper got away with it, and that the real kidnapper is still alive today. Now, as for the suspicious timing around Daniel's death by suicide, well, according to Debbie, he didn't actually die at his own hand. He didn't take his own life.
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According to Debbie, the person who hurt Amber also murdered Daniel, and this person had staged his death to make it look like he had killed himself. Which, okay, if it goes really deep, let me just put my tinfoil hat on and get conspiracy theory here for a minute. I could see that maybe happening. Maybe in a Lifetime movie. Not really real life. Possible. I don't know.
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But there also is kind of this weird, and I'm just going to be very clear here, this is just speculation. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this is true. But there also is some weird undercurrent here of like, what's their names? Carla Homolka vibes. You remember the couple in Canada and she allowed her boyfriend to like rape her younger sister and then they murdered her.
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It was like this whole thing and he went on to like have this killing spree. I'm not saying that her sister is involved, but there are a lot of people out there as I was going into this deep, dark hole on this case that feel like there's some sort of weird cover-up happening here and that she's a little too stand-by her man. Maybe she's doing that because he's innocent.
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Maybe he didn't really take his own life. But there's something, you know, that doesn't sit right with a lot of people with this. And there have also been a few more recent developments here, and they're worth touching on. In 2015, the police announced that they were collecting DNA from an Oklahoma County inmate.
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He went by a few different names, but most of my sources call him Forrest Rice, so that's the name I'm going to be using. Well, as it turns out, Forrest was best friends with Daniel. And Daniel was with him on the day that he died, the day that he killed himself. You know, unless you believe Debbie's claim that actually Daniel was murdered.
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Allegedly, Forrest and Daniel were also hanging out on the evening when Amber disappeared. And the following day. Which I do find interesting, because the police said that nobody could verify Daniel's alibi. And make of this what you will, but Forrest's story also contradicts Daniel's alibi. Daniel said he was looking for Debbie all over town, and then he stopped for a beer, right?
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That was really unusual, because Amber just didn't miss curfew. But right when Bonnie was starting to get worried and wonder what was going on, she got a phone call. And it was from Amber. Amber told her that she was still over at her friend's house. She was very, very apologetic because she knew that she had broken a rule, something that she never did.
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But he didn't say that he was at Forrest's house all night. Now maybe there's a way to reconcile all of that, like Daniel went to Forrest's house while he was looking for Debbie, and then it was late enough for him to stop searching and just stay there. Maybe Forrest was with him looking for Debbie. Maybe there was time for Daniel to hurt Amber, then go to Forrest's house afterward.
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Or maybe Forrest is lying. I mean, there are a lot of possibilities. But here's where things get complicated. The police have always been very clear, very firm, that they don't believe that Forrest took Amber or that he killed her. They don't even consider him a suspect.
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In an interview, one spokesperson for the police department said that they just wanted to question Forrest because they thought that he might have some sort of information, which reading between the lines, and this is just speculation, but I wonder if the detectives think that Daniel did it, but they can't prove it.
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And with Daniel dead, it's not like they can just pull him into an interrogation room and try to get a confession out of him. So instead, maybe they're trying to go for the next best thing. Talking to Daniel's best friends. Try to see if any of them know more than what they've been saying. And in fact, the police spokesperson implied that pretty strongly in their interview.
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They definitely made it sound like the police were only even looking at Forrest because of what he maybe knew about the real guilty parties. Except if that was true, if that was really what they had in mind, then why do the DNA testing on Forrest? Well, there are two things that are worth keeping in mind here.
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The first is that even though the police didn't have the technology to get DNA from what was possibly semen back in 1997, technology has come a long way since then. By 2015, the police had recovered partial DNA from that material they found inside her vomit. There wasn't enough of it to identify any one single individual, though, but there was enough for them to at least start ruling people out.
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If someone had a sample that was close to that partial DNA, they could be a suspect. If they weren't close, they could be ruled out. So I could see the police officers maybe doing these kinds of, you know, DNA comparisons as a matter of like due diligence and staying course with the investigation.
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Anyone they talked to, even if they weren't a major suspect, they might give a sample just to be safe. But to me, the more compelling reason that the police would need Forrest's DNA was if they thought that there was a chance that that might put him at the scene of a crime.
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It doesn't seem like they would spend the money and the laboratory's time and resources after so many years unless they really thought that there would be a chance that there was a match here. So then you throw that into it, and it doesn't really fit the whole, you know, we just think that he knows something narrative that the police were putting out there. Who knows?
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I mean, there probably is more to the story, but nobody's talking. Nobody's really saying what is going on here. Either way, the investigators compared Forrest's DNA to the semen that was found on Amber's sweater, and also to the blood that was on her shoe. But to this day, they haven't confirmed whether or not it was a match.
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She just said that she had lost track of time. She wasn't hurt. She wasn't in danger. There was nothing to worry about. She just simply lost track of time. Now she did sound really freaked out, but mostly because she thought that she was going to be in trouble for getting home so late. But Bonnie assured her daughter that everything would be okay.
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They also haven't publicly cleared him or named him as a suspect, so make of that what you will. I will say, though, that like Daniel, Forrest wasn't really a great guy. He had many charges against him, including things like assault, battery, and even cooking meth.
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Now, there's one last person who I want to touch on here. Joseph. Because you'll remember, he was dating Brandy back in 1997, and he was at Bonnie's house for some reason the day that Amber went missing. He's the one who said that Daniel was there for that phone call from Amber to Bonnie. And then he said that Daniel left the house right after Bonnie was done with the phone call.
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Even though, remember, Bonnie had remembered it differently, and she said that Daniel hadn't been there for that phone call. And I think that this is pretty interesting, because in the years after Amber's disappearance and after Daniel's death, the police treated Joseph like a person of interest. I don't really know why.
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I don't know if there was some sort of evidence that maybe made him look guilty or what, or if it really just does come down to the timing of that phone call and the fact that Joseph overheard it. But they did treat him like a person of interest. It's possible that there's some other information that hasn't been made public, something that maybe makes Joseph look guilty.
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She wasn't going to punish her, especially because this was just like a one-time thing. She knew Amber was a good kid. She had never done anything like this before. So she just told her, you know, just get home safely. So Amber said that she was going to leave right away and bike straight home. Again, she sounded a little worried, but not in a way that was like a huge red flag for Bonnie.
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But what I do know is that the police have definitely been treating him suspicious and keeping an eye out on him. For his part, Joseph makes it sound like he doesn't even know why they are suspicious of him at all. According to him, he's innocent. There's absolutely no reason for him to be treated this way.
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Now, of course, different reporters and different people in the media have asked the police why they were even talking to Joseph, what kind of statement they wanted to make. And the investigators said basically the same thing about Joseph that they had said about Forrest earlier. He wasn't a suspect, but maybe he knew something, and the police wanted to know what he knew.
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Like I mentioned before when we were talking about the police questioning Forrest, it does sound to me like there is more to it than that. So I'm not sure how much we can take the police for at face value here. They might be keeping some of the parts of the investigation quiet and saying things that aren't totally true.
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That does happen because they don't want to ruin the integrity of the investigation. But the point is, that's kind of where we're at with this case. And that's why so many people are outraged on TikTok and why I was like tagged in literally this video a thousand times, because to this day, Amber has never been found. Not alive, not dead, nothing.
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The police also have never publicly named a suspect. However, the police have always been very, very careful to say that the case is not closed and that it's not cold. They're still investigating and they're still digging. Every few years, a new team will come on board.
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They will review everything, you know, hoping that maybe a fresh set of eyes can find something that all of those earlier investigations missed. But so far, nothing has come out of those reviews. No huge breaks. Or at least, no breaks that they have announced to the public anyway.
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It is possible that there are new directions and avenues of the investigation behind the scenes, maybe ones that we don't know about, and I really do hope that that's the case because I hope that Amber can get justice soon and her surviving family members, those who have survived. If Amber is alive today, that would mean she's 37 years old.
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it sounded more like amber was just nervous because she had never ridden alone in the dark before it was going to be a new experience for her and not one that she was completely thrilled about remember she was scared of the dark well bonnie was in full like understanding mom mode so on top of telling amber that she wasn't angry and that she wouldn't be getting into any trouble
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Now for the people watching on YouTube, I'm putting her age progression photo up now, and if you have seen her, please do call in and say what you know. It might seem hopeless given how many years have gone by, but Amber's body has never been found. There's also no proof out there that she is in fact dead. So just in case, keep your eyes open. If you see something, say something.
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And even when it feels unlikely, let's just all together have a little bit of hope that maybe, maybe this story might have some sort of closure for Amber's surviving family. I think that's why it's going so viral online too. Everybody wants answers. So please do your part in that too. Share a link to this episode. Share a link to this video. Put it in your group chat, on your social media.
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on TikTok, wherever you want to put it. I don't copyright strike, don't worry. I just want these cases spread so that awareness is made and like hopefully some tips come in and answers can be found and people can figure out what really happened to Amber. And what do you think happened to Amber? Let me know if you're watching on YouTube. Let me know in the comment section.
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But if you're listening to the podcast version, let me know either in the Q&A section on Spotify or in the Apple review section. But what do you think happened? Do you think it was clear cut that it was Daniel that... He attacked Amber as some sort of retaliation against Debbie since she fled with their child.
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Do you think that it was Joseph who was the other kid, the older teenage boy that was in the house, and that he was pointing the finger at Daniel because he's the one who's responsible? Could it have been a stranger? I mean, the blue fibers... You know, most seats, I don't remember in 1997 if it was mostly leather or cloth, but like it feels like that's kind of a big tell, right?
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Blue fibers, blue fibers. I don't know. What do you guys think? In any event, thank you guys so much for hearing Amber's story today. And I think we're a far cry from where we were in 1997. I used to be able to ride my, I would actually be, Amber would be the same age as me. I was born in 87 as well, which is a very scary thought to think about.
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But I remember I used to be able to just like ride my bike and go play with the neighbor kids until the streetlights came on. And unfortunately, it feels like we live in a day and age now where you just can't do that anymore. There's not that same sense of innocence or freedom. So...
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please just be careful with your kids your loved ones if you're young yourself be extra cautious even if you're not young hell be extra cautious because there are so many predators out there some of them live closer than you think too some of them are closer than you think so please just always watch your back all right guys thank you so much for tuning into another episode until the next one stay safe be nice don't kill people don't join any cults and just always watch your back all right bye
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Bonnie also told Amber not to be so worried about getting home. She said it was a quick trip. She had biked this same route a million times before during the day, so everything would be alright. Just be calm, you'll be fine, I'll see you soon. So then they told each other their goodbyes, they said that they would see each other soon, and they hung up.
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Now, given that the bike ride was only about 10 minutes, Amber should have been home around 6 p.m. or so. So when 6.10 rolled around, Bonnie started getting worried. But she tried not to freak out too much. I mean, maybe Amber didn't leave for home immediately after hanging up the phone. Maybe she stopped to say bye to her friend. Maybe she went to use the bathroom.
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And the reason I say it came from TikTok is because when I tell you how many times I was tagged in this video and in this story literally in the hundreds maybe even thousands it was like a tsunami of mentions and tags and dms over the weekend of everyone like wanting me to talk about this case so did some research wanted to see is there enough information what value could we add to it
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Maybe she got a quick drink of water. Who knows? I mean, there were a lot of perfectly valid, legitimate reasons for her not to be home yet. So Bonnie waited for five more minutes. Then ten more minutes. But by 6.30, there was still no sign of Amber. And it was late enough now that Bonnie knew that it wasn't some ordinary delay. Something was wrong.
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So she got in her car and she drove toward that friend's house. And the whole time, she was looking at all of the roads, all of the sidewalks, just looking for her daughter on her blue bike. But unfortunately, she didn't see any sign of her. So the next step was for Bonnie to call everybody that she knew.
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Amber's friends, her family, people from the school, literally anyone that she could think of. Her hope was that someone had seen Amber and knew what had happened to her. But the only person who admitted to seeing Amber that day was the friend that Amber had been visiting with. And they told Bonnie that Amber did leave right away after they were done talking on the phone.
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There was no bathroom break. There was no long goodbye. None of the things that she was thinking could have been a possibility. The friend even said that they had watched Amber get onto her bike and start heading down the street toward home. So she had definitely been on her way a while ago. Needless to say, this situation did not sound good.
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I mean, all the signs pointed to Amber being in trouble. So that's when Bonnie picked up the phone, dialed 911, and reported her 10-year-old daughter as missing. Right away, the police sprang into action. I mean, they had every reason to take this report seriously right off the bat. First of all, Amber had never run away before. She didn't have some sort of history of taking off.
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She also had no reason to just suddenly run away now. She got along with her family. She got good grades. She hadn't ever complained about bullying or a boyfriend or anything like that. And sometimes, unfortunately, in these cases, you do see the police kind of dragging their feet a little bit, right? Not taking the disappearance seriously right away. But that was not the case here.
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They immediately understood that this was a very big deal, and they did everything that they could do to try and track Amber down. They started by canvassing the neighborhood, questioning neighbors, searching for anyone who might have seen Amber or heard anything unusual. But all of their initial investigations went nowhere. Nobody had seen her.
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In fact, they wondered if that was one of the key issues. Visibility. Meaning that literally people were not able to see Amber at night here. Specifically, the police theorized early on that maybe this wasn't even a crime at all. That maybe Amber had been hit by a car on her way home. This all just somehow was some horrific, tragic accident. There were a few problems, though, with this theory.
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I mean, she wasn't in any of the local hospitals. She hadn't been found hurt or dead at the side of a road, either. I mean, not yet, anyway. But their theory was that maybe a driver might have run her over by accident, then panicked, and because of that, disposed of her body and her bike somewhere. But that theory didn't hold up for long.
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Because the next morning, at around 10.30 a.m., Amber's bike was found. It was found lying against a tree in Denniston Park, just a few blocks from both her and her friend's house. And the bike? It was in great shape. There was no dents, no scrapes, no other damage that might suggest that it was in some sort of car accident.
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Now, as for the question of how that bike ended up there, well, most of the kids in the neighborhood apparently liked playing in this park. And Amber was no different. It was a go-to spot for her. She hung out there all the time. So with a bike being found there, the new theory was that maybe Amber stopped at this park on her way home from her friend's house.
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Maybe she wanted to take a break, catch her breath during this long ride home even though it was only 10 minutes. Or maybe she spotted some friends and decided to hang out and play with them for a while. But then, think about it. Amber had already called her mom, apologized for being late, and said that she was nervous about riding home in the dark.
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So if she was really that nervous to make that 10-minute bike ride straight home, would she really go off course to hang out at the park after dark? It didn't add up. Either way, the police kept the bike to do some more investigating and to try to learn more. The next step was to raise awareness, to make sure that people knew that Amber was missing.
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They were asking for tips, they were asking for leads, everything. They went on the news, they printed flyers, and they stood on the streets asking anyone who happened to pass if they had heard or seen anything weird in the neighborhood. The hope was that maybe somebody might have seen Amber while they were driving home, because she did disappear right around 6 p.m.
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So maybe somebody who didn't even know Amber or know anything about her case might have spotted her when they were driving past. They might have been coming home from work, and they might not have thought anything about it at the time. They might not have even realized that they had any information that the police were interested in hearing.
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And now here we are. We are talking about it. And it's the case of Amber Barker. It's a 10-year-old little girl who went missing in Oklahoma in 1997. And the details will literally leave your jaw on the floor. So I'm going to jump right in.
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So now, the police were going out to everyone else, saying basically, yes, we do want to hear from you, tell us what you know. And keep in mind, with all of this going on, it had still been less than 24 hours since Amber had gone missing. And during that day, on day two, Amber's family was handing out flyers everywhere.
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And during that, they started talking to one man who said that he thought he had seen Amber on the day of her disappearance, that he thought he saw her at around 5.25 p.m.
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he described the girl that he had seen and it did sound exactly like amber a fair-skinned five foot tall girl with long dark hair and bangs and the girl he saw even had a blue bike according to this man there was also a boy with this girl the boy was selling candy and amber was talking to him so that all sounded pretty compelling maybe it could have been a lead maybe it could have been a sign
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Except Amber wasn't missing at 5.25pm when that man saw this little girl. Remember, she was still at her friend's house. We know that she hadn't left yet because she called her mom from her friend's phone, and her friend also confirmed that Amber didn't leave to head home until much later.
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So the best guess that anybody could come up with was that the man had seen a different little girl who just happened to look just like Amber. It was the kind of neighborhood with a lot of families and kids, so it made sense.
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And since this man didn't actually know Amber, it definitely would be easy for him to confuse her with a different little girl who had maybe been out on the street at that same time. So the police ruled the tip out, thinking it had nothing to do with Amber. And with that sighting ruled out, they didn't have a whole lot of other leads or theories to go off of.
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But that fact in and of itself told them something. If Amber wasn't seen by any of her friends, and if she wasn't in a car accident, that really only left one final possibility. The possibility that no parent ever wants to consider. It was looking more and more likely that Amber was kidnapped. You know how life gets so busy that you forget all about the little things that you've signed up for?
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That was me. Rocket Money found a few subscriptions that I completely forgot that I was paying for, and one of them had even doubled in price without me ever even noticing. So not only did they flag it for me, but they also canceled it with just a few taps. It saved me so much hassle.
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232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
rocket money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions it also monitors your spending and even helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings with rocket money i can see all of my subscriptions in one place i can know exactly where my money is going and i can cancel the ones that i don't need anymore plus their dashboard gives me a clear view of my spending across all of my accounts so i can create a personalized budget that actually works for me
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
And get this, Rocket Money will even negotiate lower bills for you. They handle customer service so that you don't have to. I mean, how amazing is that? So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash AE today. That's rocketmoney.com slash AE. One more time, rocketmoney.com slash AE.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
I have spent so much money on skincare and hair care products over the years, trying to tackle acne, frizz, even just keeping my hair color vibrant. But recently, I realized that I was completely overlooking one major factor. And this was thanks to TikTok and all these viral videos that I saw. And that is the water that I shower in. It is so obvious now.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Just like we filter the water we drink, why wouldn't we filter the water that we shower in? Jolie is a beauty wellness company that purifies the water that we shower in for better skin, better hair, and overall well-being. Their filtered showerhead is clinically proven to make a difference, reducing hair shedding in 81% of people and cutting frizz by 40%, even helping maintain hair color.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
The secret? Jolie removes harmful chlorine and heavy metals from your water, which are known to cause damage to your hair and your skin. And while it's doing all of that, Jolie still delivers strong water pressure and fits any shower with its sleek, universal design. I love their shower head. After I saw it on TikTok and like got suckered in, I got my sister on it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
I've noticed such a difference in my hair. I mean, truly, it's softer, feels cleaner. It's the best. Jolie will give you your best skin and hair guaranteed. Head to JolieSkinCo.com to try it out for yourself with free shipping. And if you don't love it, return it within 60 days for a full refund. No questions asked. That's JolieSkinCo.com.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Nobody could find any sign of Amber Barker anywhere, even though the police searches were incredibly intense. They were looking for her everywhere, and Bonnie was pleading for help.
Serialously with Annie Elise
232: The Darkest Ride: Terror Lurking in the Bushes | The Disappearance of Amber Barker
Sadly, by this time, investigators were seriously considering the possibility that Amber might have been dead. So their searches now weren't limited to only areas where a girl who was alive might turn up, like parks and friends' houses. They were also looking in all the places where somebody might dispose of a body. like storm drains. They also had divers looking in nearby creeks and rivers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Asleep. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Now, as I'm sure a lot of you probably already know, especially the ones who have been following this case for years now, a new three-part docuseries titled Devil in the Family, The Fall of Ruby Frankie, was recently released on Hulu.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
That is what some people don't even earn in a year, yet they were earning that monthly. So at this point, it's like greed just is tunnel vision. And it's like, we don't care about our kids. We don't care about anything. We need to keep churning out this content because now there's no glass ceiling and we can earn as much as we can possibly make by however much content we put out.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So just like that, he completely changed his tune.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And now that he saw the money and the amount of money that they had the potential to earn, he went from being, you know, slightly annoyed that Ruby had a camera out and was documenting every single moment, every single interaction, to now making sure that they always caught every single thing that they could on camera and that they could always interject it into their latest vlog.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Okay, listen, if you're anything like me, then you definitely struggle with figuring out what you're going to eat every day. I know for me, especially when I'm using DoorDash or Postmates, which I try my best not to do, I'm just like a creature of habit and I don't even want to think about what else to eat. So I just will order the same thing over and over again.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
even if it's not what I'm craving, if it's not what I want. And I also am just so over the fast food. I'm over the delivery fees, all of that that comes with it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I've talked to you guys about it before, but when I discovered Factor, it was like, I hate the word game changer, but it was almost like a light bulb went off in my head because I've been using it, you need to try it, and it is seriously the easiest way to eat well without any of the effort. The meals come fresh, fully cooked, and they're ready to heat in just two minutes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So there's no grocery shopping, no meal prep, no dishes. It's perfect for busy days when I don't have time to think about food, but I still want something that is actually good for me and not just running to my apps. There are also so many options, calorie smart, protein plus, keto, so you can stick to your goals without getting bored.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And let me just tell you, okay, the other day while I was here in the office, because I am like stocked here in the office with Factor, their shredded chicken taco bowl, I am obsessed. And their chimichurri salmon, it is like 10 out of 10, so fresh, so good.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Plus, they even have smoothies and snacks, so you can grab something quick without reaching for like junk food or like for me, the Cheez-Its, things like that. A little life hack for you too. They're chocolate shakes. I live and die by these. I go through them so fast. Every time I order a restock, I honestly am gone. They're gone within like five days because I grab them every morning.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
They are so good. It's basically like having a personal chef, but without the crazy price tag. So if you're trying to eat better this year, this is definitely it. Just try it once and you will be hooked. Eat smart with Factor. Get started at factormeals.com slash factorpodcast and use code factorpodcast to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
That's code factorpodcast at factormeals.com slash factorpodcast to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. There was another moment in this documentary where I kind of scratched my head almost because Kevin never says or admits that they shouldn't have exploited their kids online for money.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He never really even says that he believes what they were doing was harmful, which it's like, how can you not come to that conclusion at this point unless you are just so beyond dense that you can't even have a thought that's clear in your mind? But during one of the episodes, he even had the freaking audacity to bring up the fact that
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
if there was anything to do with Chad in the episode, or Chad in the thumbnail, or the video title, that that would perform better when it came to views.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And that is sick, because that tells me that they were watching the analytics, they were gauging the performance, and they knew what child performed better over the other, and then they would cherry-pick that child out and exploit them even further, because they knew that that's what the audience wanted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And speaking of Chad, people would all the time, very often, comment how he was so handsome, how people wanted to marry him, how they had a crush on him. And keep in mind, Chad was a minor during all of this at the time, so it is beyond gross and just disgusting.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But instead of Ruby or Kevin stepping in and seeing that these comments, this behavior, this fixation and interest on their minor son was gross or predatory... They used that knowledge to their advantage. They used that information to exploit him. In this, Kevin even mentioned that Ruby specifically exploited Chad for views.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And the interviewer then chimed in and asked if he felt like he had also exploited Chad in all of this. To which finally he did say, absolutely. Who are you texting?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
What I will say is that something about that specific scene didn't exactly sit right with me personally. Maybe it was his tone of voice. Maybe it was his facial expressions. I'm not really sure. But to me, he really just did not seem sorry for it. It did not land. It did not seem authentic to me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
In my own personal opinion, it sounded very much like he was just kind of admitting like, yeah, absolutely, to almost like a business model or something so topical and surfacy, something that they had followed for years, not something as serious as the exploitation of their own son who was a minor.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And this just seemed so different than the solid open stance that Sherry takes against family vlogging and all of the hard and amazing work that she has been doing to raise awareness about how harmful it is. for any family vlogging channel, and just how hurtful it is to all of the kids, even pre-Jodi and pre-all of her batshit crazy teachings.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I also did an episode a couple of weeks back where I did a deep dive into this, where we talked all about, you know, the documentary, still some things that the documentary didn't show, just the overall story of Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt. And I would say that this documentary wasn't necessarily a look into anything super new or anything revolutionary or groundbreaking.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But in the documentary, Kevin just didn't say much about that topic specifically. And it made me wonder, does he regret it? Does he see what he did was wrong? Does he wish that his children were not left vulnerable and exposed to millions of people on the internet?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, in an effort to be as unbiased as possible and give you the full story, you know, both aligned with what I think and not, after this documentary was filmed, Kevin did end up speaking up about his thoughts and opinions on the family vlogging space. And it seems he does have some regrets and also some negative feelings towards it. So that was most recently on February 18th, 2025.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now that video alone is probably going to have a lot of different opinions, and I'm honestly curious to know your thoughts on this. Do you feel like it was too little too late, or that he's only sorry because he's been caught? Do you think that he is now trying to save a face because he knows that the public probably is not going to receive what he was peddling before so warmly?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Or do you stand more on the side of better late than never, like I'm glad he finally figured it out, we're all capable of growing, we're all capable of educating ourselves on topics that maybe we once in the past felt strongly about. As a parent, I just don't really personally allow for that kind of grace. I think that you know when you are being a good parent or not from the get-go.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I don't think that that needs to necessarily be something you should be educated on over time, that you need to grow from being a parent who exploits your child and uses them for money, but maybe I'm too harsh. I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Nothing that really wasn't already known before, but it was definitely now a new look into certain perspectives. And what I mean by that is certain perspectives that maybe we haven't heard much of up until this point. And although there were a few interviews in this documentary, such as interviews from neighbors, police officers, and so forth... The main focus was really on the children.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I'll be honest, it's just really hard for me to ever take things that he says seriously, especially things like he said in that last clip, but then also saying things like what he says in this next clip, where it sounds like he's almost justifying the abuse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I think what a lot of people have issues with when it comes to Kevin, myself included, is that just because he wasn't present during that year where Ruby was really losing her mind, starting to spiral and physically abusing the youngest two children, it doesn't mean that he wasn't there or present for other very questionable behavior and very, very questionable parenting choices.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I'll go to the most well-known example, and I'm sure you're already going to guess what it is here, but this is when Chad, their son, had his bed taken away from him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Here's another example. When their youngest daughter would continuously go hungry at school because she would forget to pack her own lunch. As a reminder, a six-year-old child.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, yes, Jodi was in the picture at this point. At least she was for that Chad incident. I'm not 100% sure about the lunch situation. So, sure, you could argue that the weird connections, ideologies, and the cultish mindset was already starting to settle in and that it was starting to take root.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But regardless, these were parenting moves that Kevin was still present for, that he co-signed on, he enabled, he greenlit it, like he hadn't left the house yet. So he was okay with this behavior. And that's why it enrages me that he's now trying to get a pass. In a recent interview that Chad and Kevin did with People Magazine, Kevin even actually brought up the time that Chad didn't have a bed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But instead of actually taking accountability or just simply saying like, you know, I really shouldn't have allowed that. That was a big mistake in hindsight. I can't believe I ever let that happen. He just blamed the entire thing on Jody.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
The main focus was on Sherry, Chad, Kevin, and Chad and Kevin, Chad the son and Kevin being the father, they really were at the forefront of this. Within the first few minutes of the very first episode, we hear a background voice stating that ever since the arrest, Kevin has been trying to clear his name.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now look, I don't think that anybody is denying that at some point Jodi instructed him and Ruby to do these things, especially when it came to Chad, since she was technically his therapist. But the problem lies with not just jumping in, not saying, you know, this doesn't feel right, this isn't something that I'm comfortable with doing to my kid, this doesn't feel good, I'm not going to do this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Just because your therapist tells you to take your child's bed away, it doesn't mean that you should do it. Just like the age-old saying, if somebody tells you to jump off a bridge, are you going to do it? If a therapist tells you to torture or to ridicule your child, are you going to do it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
At what point do you man up as a parent and as a f***ing man, sorry, excuse my cussing, and realize and say, no, I'm not going to do that. I would never treat my child like that. especially if Kevin was so against it at the time as he claims. It's not like she was in their home pointing a gun at them, forcing them to do this. They did this of their own volition. They made these choices.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
They executed these horrific actions. When you become a parent, it is your duty to step up and advocate for your child, not to inflict harm on them and exploit them. And it's like these children, in my opinion, they were failed every step of the way. both of these parents, equally damaging. I don't care if Ruby is the one that was there for more of the physical stuff and when that all went down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
In my opinion, Kevin, he is just as responsible. If you're not going to stand up and make sure that your kids are protected and safe and happy and healthy, who will? Who do you expect to advocate for your child? Surely not nut job Jodi. Now, when this specific incident was brought up in the documentary,
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Kevin described at the time feeling persecuted for his parenting style, feeling persecuted for his religious beliefs. And his exact words to the viewers, apparently very harsh reactions to the video, were, We saw it as an innocent religious family that's being attacked unjustly by cancel culture. And cancel culture is winning. Those were his exact words. His exact words. Like... Give me a break.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And when he said that, that really got me thinking because Kevin Franke is an extremely polarizing topic. We all know this. I think we can all agree on this, especially if you've been following the case.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
You're sad fishing. You are not taking accountability. You're pointing the finger at everybody else. Like, it enrages me. Now remember, those were the things that were going on in his mind at the time. So the interviewer even asked if he felt now that the people's reactions were justified. And his response? Sure. That's it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Not, yeah, you know what, they were justified, and I wish that I had listened at the time, and in hindsight, I wish I could have gone back, and I would have listened. They were right, and I should have... It should have been more eye-opening to me, and that they were seeing something that I, unfortunately, at the time, couldn't see or refused to see. But instead, he just says, sure.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Sure, they were justified. Like... Like, so casual, so casual, like it's not a big deal. So very similarly to the topic of family vlogging in general, my question with that is, does he actually regret any of it? Or does he just know what people want him to say? I mean, this is for each and every one of you to decide.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, there is one more thing I want to mention about Kevin pre-leaving the house. I have a lot more to mention, but this is about Kevin before he left the house, and it really stuck out to me. At the end of the first episode, there's a very interesting conversation that is brought up about whether or not Kevin ever actually saw Ruby physically or verbally abuse any of the children in their home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And he straight up said, "...I had no idea that this is what was going on in my family." That is a direct quote.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I'll be honest, it's going to be a little bit hard for me to not get angry or share my opinion about that because right after he said this, the clip then jumped to Sherry where she says that she tried to help her brother Chad whenever he would get in trouble or whenever he got hit and that she would try to help him as best as she could.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And she said that sometimes all she knew that she could do was get him toilet paper if his nose was bleeding and that she could just offer him comfort and be there for him. Another time, she said that she helped him clean his blood off of a wall after a very intense beating. And remember, this was all before Jodi ever moved in, pre-Kevin not seeing his kids for a year.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Most people either feel very sorry for him and their hearts are, you know, bleeding for him because they see him as a victim in all of this and they feel like he was just as much a victim as the children.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So it was well before the younger kids had apparently turned into demons who were possessed, and way before Kevin, Sherry, and Chad were all kicked out of the house. So I find it pretty damn hard to believe that
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
his oldest daughter, who is, of course, obviously much younger than him, that she remembers multiple instances of having to intervene and step in and clean blood off of the walls and blood off of her brother's face or comfort her brother and remembers all of these surroundings in vivid detail, yet he had no idea that any of it was going on. The math ain't mathin'. It does not equate.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It doesn't make sense. He can also be heard in the background of videos where Ruby is yelling and where she's being just incredibly harsh toward her kids. Yet, he claims, he had no idea that any of this was going on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He was there during the times that Ruby would post parenting tips and different parenting guides that are incredibly concerning, yet he apparently had no idea that these things were going on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But then others can't stand him and others think that he should have been punished because not only was he an active participant in what I believe to be like the crescendo of all of the allegations and what they were convicted of, He stood, he enabled it. He stood right alongside his wife and he thought that those methods were okay. He co-signed them. He enabled her. He was right there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So this is something that he has seemed willing to die on that hill about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Again, that's for you to decide. This is just my opinion, and maybe you really do believe that he has somehow had no idea about any of this as it was going on, and that's totally fine. Maybe I'm just more skeptical because it just doesn't make sense to me. How could you not know?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I think it's way more likely that you knew and you were a witness to this, but your bank account was growing, and so you chose to look the other way. That's my personal opinion. I think that The content was good enough. The paychecks were good enough. So why stop it? That's my opinion.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
All right, I have to put you on to my latest obsession, and maybe not latest because I think I've talked to you guys about it before, but you know I am obsessed with mobile games, with decompressing, with all of those things, and June's Journey is like my jam. It's this super fun hidden object mystery game that I cannot stop playing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
You are basically solving puzzles while you're uncovering like this really like juicy 1920s mystery. The scenes are all so detailed, so pretty, plus you get to renovate your own estate as you go, which is like a fun little bonus, but
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But what I love about it is even when I'm turning off from my day-to-day of talking about true crime, there's still like a little detective work behind the scenes through this game. There's still strategy and that's what I really like. So I usually play whenever I need a break because it's the perfect way to unwind while still keeping my brain engaged.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And the best part, there is always something new happening with different events, different challenges. It just keeps things interesting. You can even team up with others for competitions if you want. So seriously, if you love a good mystery or if you just need a fun way to relax, you have to try June's Journey.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It's free to download, so just click the link in the description and check it out for yourself. Again, that is June's Journey. So now we're caught up to when the 8 Passengers YouTube channel was created. But I want to get us to when Jodi became more heavily involved in the Frankie family dynamic.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Because the documentary and even the interviews that Kevin did within this documentary really start to point to this huge shift, describing it as almost a pre- and post-cancellation for that Chad video. And instead of taking constructive criticism or feedback from their viewers after a lot of people saw this huge issue with how Chad was being treated, they just kind of doubled down on all of this.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
They treated this criticism as people who just didn't understand, who didn't agree with their parenting methods, and who just didn't understand that this was the right approach, although it was super harsh. Kevin included.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So now that he's coming in after the fact, after Ruby and Jodi have been charged, it just doesn't really sit right with me. Because it's like, okay, now that they've been charged and convicted, you're sweeping in and saying, oh, I love Ruby, but I'm so glad she's not here anymore. The kids are laughing again. They're smiling again. I just want custody of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And instead of stepping away from Jodi or lessening her therapy sessions with Chad until they could decide on a different route of treatment, Jodi's involvement just increased. Chad was seeing her multiple times a week, and Kevin was also at the same time attending this men's group session every week with Jodi.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And Ruby, of course, well, we know she was just turning in and morphing into this little, like, Jodi Hildebrandt prodigy, just terrifying, this little evil culty dictator. And these men's group sessions were just yet another time when Kevin was actively molding himself to whatever Ruby wanted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He said that Jodi would praise him in front of all of the other men and that he knew that the praise would get back to Ruby and so he loved the idea that he just wanted to be a perfect little puppy dog on his best behavior, listening to Jodi, wagging his tail, doing everything she said because, ooh, if I do everything I say, I'll get a treat and Jodi will go tell Ruby that I was a good doggie.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So I want to make sure that Ruby knows I'm a good doggy. And, like, I know that that sounds so cringe and juvenile, but, like, that's literally what this was. He is such a sad sack of garbage, in my opinion. Like, grow a backbone. Grow a ball sack. Be a man. Like, this is so embarrassing. And...
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It would be even more pathetic than embarrassing if it wasn't so dangerous and what he allowed, in my opinion, to go on and go down in that house. So he said that during this time in particular, while he was doing these little, you know, men's sessions, barking at every single need that Jodi and Ruby were throwing at him, his relationship with Ruby, of course, just grew stronger.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She was finally seeing him the way he always wanted her to. He was finally getting the accolades and the attention of beautiful Ruby, you know, perfect Ruby on a pedestal. The validation that he was receiving from Jodi and Ruby both, that was his literal drive for attending these men's sessions and for getting more involved in connections.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I'm going to fight for custody as though you're their savior. When, no bro, actually, you participated. You were a willing participant in this for years. And you co-signed her. You enabled her all the way up until when Ruby was arrested and one of the children went to go get
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So, he got deeper and deeper into the cult that is connections.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
The documentary talked a lot about how Jodi and her teachings had all of the typical characteristics of a cult too, which definitely wasn't really unknown before this documentary came out, but I think we all have long suspected it was a cult, but it was nice to hear from some of the people that were on the other side of things, you know, closely working within connections as well.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
One member even said in the documentary that she really believed at the time that Jodi was God. Feels very reminiscent of Chad Daybell, doesn't it? And Chad even said basically the exact same thing in a newer interview with Good Morning America.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I mean, it's hard to not say that that is a cult through and through, especially with that kind of information. Jodi was incredibly convincing. She made you feel like you were doing the right thing, and she encouraged you to isolate yourself from anybody who didn't agree with the teachings or those way because, you know, as Scientologists say, I think it's you're a suppressed being.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She said that you are... living in distortion or in untruth or whatever she said it's like this perfect cult-like mentality concoction just the perfect recipe to isolate somebody and to cut them off from everyone now skipping ahead a little bit i want to talk about the moment that kevin decided to leave because this is another really huge part in this entire story
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
We're already familiar with all the things that happened in between, right? Jodi got possessed. She moved in with them. Ruby started sleeping with Jodi to apparently keep the demons away. She would come out of the room, you know, under a love spell, candles lit, sweaty, hair a mess, just... you know, awful. And I'm going to use my words really carefully here.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But me saying that he decided to leave is pretty purposeful. He did choose to leave. Yes, Ruby told him he needed to pack his bags. He needed to go. He needed to get out. But he's an adult. He's the husband. He's the father. He had free will. At any moment, he could have said, Ruby, you're insane if you think that I'm going to move out of this house that we bought together.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
You're insane if you think I'm going to leave the children. You're insane if you think I'm going to stop talking to them. He could have decided that it was the last straw and that he was going to be done with them and actually be a parent, but he didn't. He chose not to.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He chose, once again, wag his little tail, put it between his legs, do whatever boss lady Ruby wants him to do because he always wants to be in her good graces. And I feel more sympathy for Chad and Sherry being excommunicated from the family because they were still basically kids themselves. Nothing that was happening to them or that had ever happened to them was ever of their own free will.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
passports hard drives and things from the house to seize and give to the police he tried to actually file charges against his own child for i don't remember if it was burglary robbery or something within that realm because they were trying to take that because they were going against ruby so like now for you to come out and be like
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
They had no choice in who their parents were. They weren't able to just be like, screw this, this is crazy, I'm out. They didn't have the same luxuries that Kevin did. And Kevin was the adult. He should have made those decisions. Tough decisions? Sure. It wouldn't be very tough for me, but let's chalk it up to, okay, maybe it was a tough decision to make.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
That is what you have to do when you are a grown-up, Kevin. You have to make the tough decisions to protect your children. So Kevin had the choice, and he made his choice.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He did what Ruby said, and this is despite a very heartbreaking moment, which he described, where one of his younger children was sobbing in his arms, hugging him, pleading with their eyes because they were fearful that if they used their words and verbalized their fear that they would get in trouble. So sobbing and pleading with their eyes not to do this, not to leave them. and he left anyway.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Even when he was out of Ruby's watchful eye and now living on his own, he still chose to ignore Sherry and Chad, who he knew were out on their own as well. It wasn't like they were locked up with Ruby and he couldn't contact them. He just chose not to.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
When Sherry tried to talk to him and when she tried to reach out, he blocked her with seemingly no second thoughts, no remorse, no question about it, just blocked, blocking my own kids. And that's not even under the direction of Ruby anymore. That is a independent choice that he made.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, I know I sound like a broken record and I need to, like, get it together, but I cannot even just for a second imagine putting myself in Kevin's shoes and doing the things that he did. It is baffling to me. And I'm not the most perfect person in the world. Trust me, I'm not.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But the idea of blocking one of my children when they're trying to get in touch with me and not talk to them, not reach out, not make sure they're okay, it makes me sick to my stomach. His children were excommunicated from their family. alone in the world, lost, scared, trying to figure out who loved them, who cared about them, who was there to help them, and he blocked her. It makes me sick.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So Kevin mentioned in the documentary that even though he was sad about this, and even though he didn't, quote, love the idea of it, he did it because he was terrified of Ruby asking for a divorce. So once again, you will cut off your children because you're scared of Ruby, because you don't want precious Ruby to not be in love with you anymore.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It's like you are the biggest twerpy, nothing bag of just garbage in the world. Like again, I've said it before, grow a backbone. Like you're so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing and pathetic. He just completely put his trust in Ruby and Jodi. And those are words that have come from his own deadbeat mouth.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
oh yeah, the kids are just so much happier now with me and we're rebuilding and this and that. Just because you weren't there when the arrest went down does not, in my opinion, make you any less responsible. So my point in this follow-up episode...
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Again, molding himself to who Ruby wanted him to be. She didn't want him to be the husband who questioned her authority or undermined her rules and her boundaries. She didn't want him to have his own feelings or opinions on how they parented, how they shared their children. She wanted a husband who obeyed her. So he just did that. He became that.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, obviously, I think it's clear where my feelings lie with all of this, but I am trying to be as fair as possible. So there was a moment in the documentary that Kevin did admit that he does feel guilty for leaving his kids behind like that because he knows that he was, as in his words, he said, quote, their last line of defense.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Which, am I glad that he admitted to that and hopefully truly does feel that way? Of course. Does that kind of seem like the bare minimum in the grand scheme of things when you find out that you could have avoided and saved your children from being literally starved, duct-taped, and chained to walls because they were, quote, demons in your wife's eyes? I don't really know about that.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Towards the end of the documentary, there was a point when Kevin talked about the moment that his eyes were finally opened to the fact that he was in a cult, that he had been brainwashed, and that what happened to his kids really actually happened.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I want to go over that quickly because it leads into something to this day that has stuck with me and has been one of my bigger issues that I take up with Kevin. Sometime after Ruby and Jodi's arrest, Chad and Kevin had apparently began texting back and forth.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Chad had basically reached out saying he saw the news, he was confused, he didn't know who to talk to, he was trying to get some clarity as to what was going on. So Kevin told him that he was going to go over to the house that following day to check things out and for Chad to meet him there so that they could talk.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, even though I don't know the exact day that this happened, it was after the arrests, and that is key. This was after Kevin had heard the conditions that his kids were living in and all of the things that they had faced. It was after he had full knowledge of the situation. And he describes that before he stepped foot into that house, he didn't really believe any of it.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Just like when people were commenting about Chad and all of those things, he felt like the police were setting him up or that it was all fake or it was orchestrated or whatever. But he claimed that when he saw that the house was a complete mess inside, the gears in his brain started turning.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He was slowly realizing, walking room to room, that none of that correlated with the Ruby that he was picturing in his mind. Then one of the neighbors, a couple that they had come to know and like since living in that neighborhood, they came over. And they ended up staying up with Kevin for six hours, answering any and all of his questions, just giving him all of the details.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It's going to be all about Kevin and we are going to drag his ass because I want to show the clear contradictions from what he is saying now to what his behavior, his documented behavior was in the past and how he truly did enable this.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So at this point, it's like he's armed with information from the neighbors. He's seeing the house. He's hearing from the police different things. He has a full comprehensive picture of what was going on in that house and just how bad this had become. These neighbors even described what the kids were like after he left.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
They told him about all of the times that they called CPS when the kids were seen in the window, seemingly left home alone for days on end. And it again was apparently after talking with them that he had this great revelation of everything. However, let's not forget what happened two days after Ruby's arrest. Because Sherry had gone back into the home and she had taken a bunch of electronics.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She took passports, electronics. But when Kevin found out about this, he tried to have Sherry arrested for burglary. According to the incident report, Sherry had taken three tablets, three cell phones, three cameras, written journals from the family members, and three passports. Now, I've always held the belief that Sherry was probably doing this to protect her siblings. I truly believe that.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She is the only one who has denounced what Ruby has done from basically the get-go. So I think that she was probably terrified that Kevin hadn't changed and that she knew deep down that he would probably do whatever it took to protect Ruby. Hiding these tablets, hiding the hard drives, hiding passports, whatever it may be.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Maybe she was worried that he was even going to wipe the devices of any possible evidence of abuse throughout the years. I don't know. But despite everything that Sherry went through, she always had her siblings' best interest in mind. And at the end of the day, all she wanted to do was prove that they were never truly safe in Ruby's care.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Kevin, on the other hand, had only proved to her time and time again that he would follow Ruby's request no matter what they were, no questions asked. It was Ruby, Ruby, Ruby. So Sherry did end up having to return all of that property. but no charges were ever brought against her. And watching the body cam footage of Kevin angry that his daughter wasn't going to get arrested? No. No.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
No charges were ever brought against her, which, good, there shouldn't have been charges. He never should have tried to have her arrested for burglary.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He co-signed it, but now he's backpedaling and acting as though he's the children's savior because he doesn't, of course, want to be thrown in prison like Ruby and Jodi. But it's disgusting. And I know there are, like I said, a lot of different opinions about Kevin. This is my opinion. I'm sure you have your own as well. But I want to dive into Kevin a little bit deeper.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She was trying to help her siblings, the kids that he never did help, even despite having a full picture of what had happened to them, which, again, makes me question how authentic he's being now with his remorse and, you know, trying to say he wants all the kids in his custody. I think it's more of a saving face thing, and I think it's because he... thinks it will make Ruby happy.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I say this because watching the body cam footage of Kevin getting angry that his daughter Sherry wasn't going to get arrested, to this day, this footage still makes me angry.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I feel like I'm going to get mad all over again. She is your daughter. She is the only one in your family who is trying to protect your children. All right, let's talk about something that has been a total game changer for so many people, GLP-1s for weight loss.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And as a row sponsor, I have to just tell you about what they're offering because it is next level, and I feel like it is just a hack for anybody who qualifies or is interested in GLP-1s.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Plus, Roe makes the whole process super easy. You can complete the consultation from home. There's no doctor's visits, no waiting rooms required. It is just so simple. So if you've been thinking about starting your weight loss journey, Roe might be the answer. Over 385,000 people have already chosen it. So click the link in the description and see if it's the right one for you.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So go to roe.co.ae to see if you qualify. That's ro.co.ae. Go to ro.co.safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP-1 medications. 15% weight loss is based on a study in non-diabetics with obesity or with overweight with a weight-related condition on a 5 mg of medication and when paired with diet and exercise.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Half the list price when compared to auto-injector pens and when paying cash without applying insurance or savings cards. So my biggest unanswered question is that I really am curious when this, you know, no pun intended, when this come-to-Jesus moment happened for Kevin.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Because if he's claiming the day after the arrest that he realized his wrongdoings, but then the following day he was still actively trying to protect Ruby and was yet again choosing her over his own children, then I'm calling bullshit. I'm calling bullshit on the entire story.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I want to talk about all of his questionable life choices. And I also want to talk about his involvement with the 8 Passengers YouTube channel. That channel that Ruby had started that was their rise to fame. Millions of dollars. Millions of subscribers. All...
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Or maybe the incident with Sherry happened, and then a day or two later, Kevin had this come-to-Jesus moment and realized all of his wrongdoings. I don't really know. It would make a lot more sense, I guess, if that were the timeline, but it's of course not something that is being talked about or publicized.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But it's something that's been stuck in my mind for the last year or so, and it isn't leaving anytime soon. Regardless of the timeline, though, this specific incident has always been a massive red flag to me, because it is such a raw moment that clearly shows Kevin's feelings post-arrest.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
No matter what day it ended up being, it doesn't matter to me, it's post-arrest, and you are still choosing Ruby over your children. It's also a moment when all of those excuses of not knowing what was going on in the house, not knowing how they were being treated, you know, not knowing what was going on while you were out of the house for a year, all those excuses evaporate in my mind.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Because now you do know. You do know what was going on, and you're still choosing the wrong road ahead. Like, you're still choosing to protect Ruby. So there's not a whole lot for him to lean back on. He was made aware in graphic detail of why Ruby was arrested and why he couldn't just pick up the kids and go home.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But he was still seemingly protecting her, even when he was told that his son was found emaciated. He... still was protecting her. The contrast in general between Sherry and Kevin is one that has to be noted because Sherry didn't care what crap Jodi was spitting and spewing. She didn't care that Ruby told her not to contact any of her family members.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She was working with the neighbors constantly just to get an idea of how her siblings were doing. She was calling CPS time and time again. She was trying to get in contact with both Kevin, with Chad, hoping that they would feel the same way that she felt, that they needed to intervene and help the rest of the kids. But she was blocked by her own dad.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She was in the exact same situation that Kevin had been. She had been just as involved with Ruby and Jodi. Jodi was her therapist at one time too. None of that mattered though. She knew the difference between right and wrong, and she loved her siblings so much that she didn't care Who got pissed off in the process? She was going to do the right thing.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I'm not at all saying that Kevin doesn't love his children. But why was it possible for Sherry to do all of this and not Kevin? I think maybe he does love them in some ass-backwards way, but I think he loves Ruby more. 100% I think that. And that is, arguably, if he loves his children authentically and genuinely at all.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
while exploiting their children humiliating their children and also then even abusing their children so we are going to talk about all of that we're going to talk about his connection with connections the freaking alleged cult i'm going to say alleged but hello if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a freaking cult and he's
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Kevin has even felt the need to comment on people's criticism, but it still doesn't really answer my question.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, the very end of the documentary, it directly ties into Kevin's recent media presence, as well as his feelings on everything that is happening in general. During the last few minutes of the series, Chad, Sherry, and Kevin are all seen separately holding what I would assume to be a producer's phone.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And on this phone, it has an old video of the family where things seemed not as scripted as they normally were. It seemed more authentic. And just like in the beginning when they all had something different to say about when Ruby changed, their reactions were all different here too. Sherry said she doesn't care about how many times Ruby reaches out or what she even does in life.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She will never talk to her again. That ship has 100% sailed for Sherry, and I applaud and commend her for that. Chad's reaction was similar, but with a little bit more nostalgia mixed in. He said that he missed those happy times way, way back and missed having a mother figure in general.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And you could tell that he knows that the Ruby that he remembers from when he was a small kid is not the same Ruby who was in jail. And then there's Kevin's reaction, and his reaction was something else, because his exact words were, "...the actions she did are atrocious, but I still feel a longing. I miss her.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It is easy for the world to hate that woman, and so many people want me to join in that chorus, and I cannot turn off all of those other memories." Which, I could say, I could lie to you and say I'm surprised, and I can't believe he said something like that and had the audacity to say that, but I'm really not surprised. It really doesn't shock me. He has 100% stood on still loving Ruby.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
His connection with connections and how he co-signed that as well and thought Jodi was great too and practiced the principles and all of those other things. And we're going to talk about then his absence when everything escalated with Ruby and Jodi and what he was doing. Why were you away from your kids for a year?
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Allegedly, though, not agreeing with her or the things that she's done, but still loving her.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And I'm honestly glad that Kevin brought that up because a lot of people have this conspiracy theory that this is all just for show. People are questioning whether or not Kevin is actually being truthful when he says he doesn't want Ruby back in his life or his kids' lives.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And for the sake of those poor kids, I really hope and pray to literally whatever higher power is listening that he is telling the truth and that if she is released, he will not allow her back in their lives. Because remember, her sentence could be as little as four years. It hasn't been determined yet.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So my gut feeling, and I really hope I'm wrong, if she is released that early, which I don't think she will be, but if she is, I think he would a thousand percent allow her back.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I think he would bring her back around the kids in no time at all, even if she, and let's just say, even if she was changed and saw the light and no longer was a threat, wasn't going to hurt her children, no longer had contact with Jodi. And he's like, you know, come back into the fold, come back into the family. I think he would do that.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
despite whatever post-traumatic stress that inflicted or caused his children. Surely to be closely involved with her again or living under the same roof as her would be traumatic and scary, but I don't think he would even give that a second thought.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I don't think he would care because if Ruby wants to be back in the house, Ruby's going to be back in the house and he wants to do whatever he can to make her happy.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Like I've mentioned in my other videos and other episodes covering the most recent updates with this case, Sherry wrote in her book that she is working on her relationship with her dad Kevin, and I just hope for her sake that continuing her relationship with him is her moving forward and healing her, not holding her back, not trying to cater to what he needs, especially since their truths are just so much different from one another.
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250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Especially knowing the kind of conflict and the kind of methods and punishing methods and... It's just, how can you even call yourself a father, honestly? And I'm sorry, but if you're a Kevin Frankie stan, this episode probably isn't for you because we are here today to drag him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I mean, I guess smacking and slapping a six-year-old and that being considered criminal, I guess it just really depends on the person you ask as far as Kevin is concerned. I thought it was black and white, but apparently not to him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I'm sorry. A story of love? A story of hope? Are you out of your mind? What are you even talking about? This is not a story of love. This is nothing even coming close to a story of love. And I'm honestly just curious to hear where you guys stand on everything. Do you think that having to live with his choices is punishment enough for Kevin?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Or are you somebody who feels like Kevin just got away with way too much, that he hasn't taken a shred of accountability, and that he hasn't had any repercussions for his role that he played in all of this? Some people have been quick to forgive, but some of us just aren't so sure yet. Myself included here. I think that this is all performative. That is what my gut tells me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe this is genuine because his whole track record has a history of showing him choosing Ruby over everybody else, him being performative, him making these choices, being complicit, co-signing, endorsing it, enabling it. I think now he's just scared because it's public. It's out there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He doesn't want the public backlash and he doesn't want to be like tied in with Ruby and Jodi because obviously they're so hated by the world. What do you think? I don't know. Are we in agreement on this or am I like on my own island over here just being like this guy is the scum of the earth and still needs to grow a sack of balls? I don't know. Let me know what you guys think.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
If there are any more updates in this case, I will be sure to keep you updated. But I just after my last episode, I had to come on here and do this because I saw there were a lot of you in the comments who said,
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
have a very similar mentality about this whole situation like me when it comes to kevin and so i felt you know we he deserves his own episode we got to really show all the inconsistencies and really outline it what was his role even though now he's trying to pretend that he wasn't involved and that you know he didn't know what was going on like no bro i'm gonna call your bluff and i'm gonna put it out there and i'm gonna show everybody you did know you were complicit you co-signed it and like you're gross so i don't know let me know what you guys think
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me. I will be back with you very, very soon with a brand new episode. If you're not following the podcast yet, make sure you take two seconds to do that so you don't miss these updates as I drop them. And if you are watching this on YouTube, take a second, subscribe to the YouTube channel.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
That way you will not miss the video version of these updates. All right, thank you guys so much for tuning in. Until the next one, say it with me. Don't join a cult. Be nice. Don't kill people. And definitely, definitely, definitely do not join connections. All right, guys. Thanks so much. Bye.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, although this episode is going to be strictly Kevin-based, I will bring up a couple of points regarding other family members and other dynamics just because it helps illustrate the story as a whole, just so that, you know, it's not super disjointed and you can understand where we're going. Now, of course, Kevin, he was his own person before ever meeting Ruby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But for the purpose of this video, I really want to start with when he and Ruby first met, because truthfully, that's when all of this started. So let's jump right in. If you've read their daughter Sherry's book or even listened to the episode that I did covering this book, you know that Sherry had a lot to say about her parents' relationship.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She described that her mother, Ruby, in her opinion, was just way more hyper-focused on finding a man, a man who checked all of the right boxes, all of her personal boxes, rather than actually genuinely looking for true love. She literally had a checklist of all of these things that had to be checked off in order for her to find her potential partner, you know? Were they willing to get married?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Check. Would they be open to having as many children as she ever dreamed of? Check. Were they close to God? Were they in the LDS faith? Check, check, check. I mean, a literal checks and balances. Now Kevin himself really validated all of this in that documentary, but he also kind of had this whole new behind-the-scenes type look into it, if you will.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He claimed that when it came time to winning Ruby and then standing out against all of these other potential suitors, that he cheated, that he rigged the game, that he thought it was some type of board game or, I don't know, some kind of competition, and that he cheated so that he would come out on top.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
See, apparently Ruby had this handwritten poster that was hidden in her closet, and this poster had columns of all of the different men that she was talking to or the people that she was dating, and their names were all written down horizontally at the top, and then vertically down the side she wrote everything that she was looking for in a husband, just again, all of her check boxes and checks and balances, and then as each man checked off those boxes, she would just fill them in, basically keeping track of who was doing what, which...
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Look, everybody does their own methods, whether you're online dating, whether you're in-person dating, whether you want to have a freaking pros and cons list, a Venn diagram, whatever it is. This to me doesn't exactly read authentic love. But, you know, who am I to judge? Maybe I need to make a diorama or something. So as Kevin is talking about all of this,
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He even claimed that somehow he saw this poster and that he studied it, that he memorized this poster like it was life or death, pretty much molding himself into this perfect person that Ruby had been looking for her whole life. Red flag, okay? First of all, mega red flag. Like, how about, what's that song? Be yourself, be yourself, be yourself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Like, this guy, he's crafting himself into who he thinks Ruby, not even who he thinks, but who Ruby wants as a partner. Now, not only is that a red flag because you're changing yourself, but it's a huge red flag because it's showing you are fixated on Ruby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
You are willing to change yourself, change your personality, change your hobbies, your dreams, your aspirations, everything, so that you can be with Ruby, which... Case in point, look where it got us. You allowed and participated and endorsed and co-signed and all of these things that Ruby wanted to do that were dangerous to your own flesh and blood, all because Ruby was endgame. She was the goal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
You wanted her no matter what, and you were willing to, quite frankly, do anything. You were willing to do anything to your own children to be with Ruby. So this moment where he's trying to be this yes man for Ruby, it really does end up being this huge foreshadowing moment of seemingly their entire adult lives together. So of course he's checking off all these boxes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
So they quickly get engaged, they get married, and then right away they start having children. And something that I think is really important to note here from this documentary itself is that it seems like there are still a lot of varying feelings from Kevin, Chad, and Sherry when it comes to Ruby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
specifically when it comes to the old Ruby and then the, hypothetically speaking, new version of Ruby where she turned into this awful, evil person. A lot of people on the outside looking in think that maybe it was YouTube and maybe it was the fame and the money that began to corrupt Ruby, while some people think that it was when she got involved with Jodi and with all of Jodi's insane teachings.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But what's interesting is that even her family members, the people who were around Ruby the most, cannot really agree on one specific thing. And to be fair, each person's feelings are valid. It could be either one of those things. So it's their own version of events and, really, their own truth. Now, Sherry's feelings are very clear-cut.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She has always believed that Ruby was not a good person or a good mother. Not at all. And her earliest memories of Ruby are even of her yelling at her and smacking her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She even specifically said in this documentary that she believes that Jodi only set off the things that were already deeply rooted inside Ruby's heart. Which I kind of imagine that almost as like a ticking time bomb. That it's just been years, just somebody, something waiting and waiting for something to come along and just set it off. And that's how Sherry describes it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Then there's Ruby's son Chad. And it seems like maybe he still holds some kind of soft spot for her deep down. You can tell that he seemed slightly more wary than Sherry. I mean, just not quite as angry or resentful as her. He mentioned in the first episode that Ruby, quote, was always a good mom until she just kind of wasn't, which is clearly very different than from what Sherry had felt.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She felt like Ruby was born and bred evil. Now, of course, Chad did get into the rougher times where their relationship was strained, but it seems like he didn't even really start to have those negative feelings toward his mom until her YouTube became a full-time job and really the priority in the home. That took the focus over everything. It was YouTube or nothing, and...
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
It's almost as though every decision she made was reliant on what the outcome was going to be with YouTube. So that's when he started feeling like his life was scripted and like he just was never in control of anything. And that's also when he started acting out, both at school and at home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
And then lastly, there's good old Kevin, because he's a lot harder to read, as you will see and hear in this video, because it really does seem like he's always choosing his words very carefully, very crafted whenever it comes to, you know, bashing or I guess not bashing Ruby. And it's almost like he always has Ruby still in the back of his mind. Still, how's she going to respond to this?
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Am I saying too much? Once she gets released, will she be with me if I speak too freely? Something like that. And again, this is strictly my take on things based on what I'm seeing and what I know so deeply about the case. So maybe I'm totally wrong. You tell me if you come to that same conclusion. So this sort of leads us to the creation of the 8 Passengers YouTube channel.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Because Kevin claimed that when Ruby first started picking up the camera and documenting every single thing in their house, in their lives, and turning it into content, that he was really uncomfortable with it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
But what's crazy is he wasn't uncomfortable because she was documenting the private moments like a child getting their period or a child being punished or a child having their door ripped off their hinges. No, he wasn't uncomfortable with the children's faces being shown or all of their personal moments and thoughts and behaviors being exploited.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He was just uncomfortable because he said it was, quote, awkward for him. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry it was awkward for you, Kevin. I'm sorry that it was awkward for you. So Ruby could put on this mask, honestly kind of like a trained actress, where she knew the lines that she wanted everyone in her house to say. She knew where she wanted them to all be standing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
She knew how she wanted them to be dressed, how they should act. But Kevin, he said, you know, for me it was difficult because I'm not a natural at that. I'm not able to have that vision, at least not in the way that Ruby was.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
He says that he would forget his lines, he would forget when he was supposed to interject in conversations and jump in the scene, and that he just couldn't quite figure it out. He says, even the times where I did remember that I needed to jump in the scene and say something, it just sounded too scripted. It sounded fake. It wasn't like a natural flow in the conversation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Yet, he still sat next to Ruby, just smiling for the camera, trying to do whatever it was she wanted. Which again, this just ties back into that poster that was inside Ruby's closet. He knew what she wanted. He molded himself to fit it. No questions asked, he was going to do whatever Ruby wanted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, interestingly enough, Kevin admitted during the first episode of this series that after he saw the paychecks that were coming in and that they were increasingly getting bigger and bigger, he just wanted more. He saw green. All he saw was money in his eyes. He just wanted more of that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
250: Kevin Franke: “This is A Story of Love” | Is He Still Protecting Ruby Franke?!
Now, their first check was only around $85, but month after month, those numbers just started doubling, then tripling, then quadrupling, and then I don't even know what the next word is, but you get what I mean, just snowballing and just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And he then says that sometimes they would bring in as much as six figures a month. Can you imagine six figures a month?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
$15 y no estás sacrificando nada, todavía obtienes datos de alta velocidad, un límite de conversaciones y textos, todo en la gran red de 5G de la nación, quiero decir, es literalmente lo mismo, si no mejor y simplemente mucho más barato porque, ya sabes, es mejor, así que la parte mejor de todo esto también y lo que siempre ha sido tan asombroso para mí cuando pensé en cambiar de carriera es que puedes mantener tu teléfono, puedes mantener tu número de teléfono y
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
And you can literally cut your wireless bill down and you don't have to deal with any shady contracts, no sneaky up charges, none of that. It is so easy. It took me literally like five minutes on the phone. It was so simple. So if you're ready to say, you know, bye bye to overpriced wireless plans and shocking monthly bills, Mint Mobile has got your back.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Right now, get three months of premium wireless service for just $15 a month. So if you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans now at mintmobile.com.ae. That's mintmobile.com.ae. Because saving money, it never goes out of style. Now, upfront payment of $45 for three months, 5G plan required. It's equivalent to $15 per month.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
pero también porque un tribunal acabó de dar su verdicto y la gente está absolutamente enojada. Siento, sabes, no quiero dar ningún spoiler, así que no importa, desagraden lo que acabo de decir, pero involucra dos incidentes muy similares en dos diferentes estados en menos de un año y medio aparte.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
New customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options are available. Taxes and fees are extra. See Mint Mobile for details. So about seven months after his father died, this was now on September 11th, 2023, an official from Colin's school called the police to conduct a mental health check at Colin and Catherine's house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
That morning, Colin had told a school employee that he and his mother had gotten into an argument before school, and according to Colin, Catherine said that she was going to kill him and then kill herself. Then, she supposedly told Colin to take a gun that she had and to kill her with it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, obviamente, esto fue súper preocupante, así que un policía fue a su casa para hablar con Katherine, pero ella dijo que la historia que Colin le contó no era verdadera. Ella dijo que esa mañana, sí, se hicieron una gran lucha, pero fue porque Colin no estaba haciendo bien en la escuela. Estaba fallando en todas sus clases, así que por eso su mamá tomó sus AirPods como una penitencia.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Catherine then said Colin was very angry about that, fuming even, and because of that he must have made up the entire story about the gun all as a means to get back at her. Now, I don't know if Colin admitted to lying at that point, but I am thinking that he probably did, because after the police officer talked with Catherine, Colin ended up being baker-acted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, hemos hablado de esto un par de veces en diferentes episodios, pero en Florida, el Acto Baker es una ley que se centra en ofrecer servicios de salud mental de emergencia a alguien que está en necesidad de él. Así que bajo esta ley, la gente puede ser admitida involuntariamente a una institución de salud mental si se encuentra que puede ser un peligro para sí misma o para alguien otro.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y todo está clasificado bajo el Acto Baker. Así que después de que los policías visitaron la casa de la familia, fue determinado que Colin era o una amenaza para él mismo o una amenaza para otras personas. Así que fue llevado a una instalación de salud mental y terminó quedándose allí por unos días.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, mientras estaba allí, su madre, Catherine, contactó a varias instalaciones de salud mental en todo el estado. realmente tratando de encontrar el correcto que le ofrecería ayuda a Colin a largo plazo. Ella sabía que necesitaba más ayuda, sabía que había algo bajo la superficie y que quería ayudar a su hijo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Especialmente porque aparentemente Colin estaba viendo a un terapeuta mucho antes de que Baker actuara. Pero a un punto Colin amenazó a este terapeuta diciendo que le mataría si alguna vez lo diagnosticara con algo. Sin embargo, a pesar de las amenazas y a pesar de su reacción, El terapeuta todavía diagnosticó a Colin con PTSD y también un disordio de personalidad.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que después de ser actuado como Baker, Colin solo era obligado a estar en la oficina de salud mental original por un tiempo muy corto. Después de ocho días, él era esperado a irse a casa. Pero antes de irse, Colin aparentemente le dijo a los empleados que no quería irse, que iba a tomar su propia vida o matarlo si tenía que irse a casa. Y entiendan esto, él específicamente dijo...
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
que le diría, por ejemplo, quitarlos del coche o dispararlos. También dijo, he hecho esto antes a mi papá, sé que puedo hacerlo de nuevo. Ahora, esa declaración es muy alarmante, porque recuerda, su papá fue asesinado en una moción de defensa de sí mismo de Colin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que ahora, para que él se pregunte sobre esto y diga, no quiero ir a casa, si tengo que ir a casa, voy a tomar mi propia vida, voy a matarte también, he hecho esto antes, lo hice a mi papá, sé que puedo hacerlo de nuevo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y en cada caso, la gente está emocionada y realmente agotada por la manera en que las autoridades han manejado las cosas. Así que es una cosa wilda y probablemente voy a poner un poll en el final de este episodio para saber qué piensas. Porque como dije, la gente está tan disgustada y enojada ahora mismo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Eso me parece que no es alguien que está vocalizando que están capaces de protegerse o matar en defensa de sí mismos, pero casi me parece que es alguien que está bromeando que han asesinado antes y diciendo que sé que puedo hacerlo de nuevo en términos de que sé que puedo salir de ahí de nuevo. De nuevo, esa es solo mi opinión, podría estar totalmente equivocada.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero suficiente para decir que no volvió a casa ese día, fue actuado de nuevo por Baker. Ahora, su mamá, Catherine, terminó encontrando otra instalación para ir a que estaba más cerca de su casa, y pasó alrededor de dos meses allí.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
En un momento, Catherine le dijo a alguien en la instalación, «No creo que pueda volver a casa, porque no me siento seguro con él volviendo a casa y diciendo estas cosas». Y no es claro a quién le dijo esto, si era un terapeuta, un policía o tal vez algún otro miembro del equipo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero no puedo imaginar lo asombroso que debe ser la idea de vivir con alguien que está activamente diciendo a otras personas que te van a matar. Pero eventualmente, Colin fue enviado de vuelta a casa. Y las cosas solo se hicieron peor de ahí, porque solo dos meses después de que él se inició a actuar como Baker, ahora en noviembre de 2023, Colin fue arrestado por violencia doméstica.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Esto fue después de tirar el cabello de su mamá y desnudarla en el cabello. La policía, por supuesto, se llamó después de este incidente y, a nadie de sorpresa, cuando llegaron, Colin trató de aclarar que esto era todo un acto de defensa de sí misma.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Sabía que tenía que hablar de esto con ustedes porque yo misma, y lo verás hacia el final, como... se siente muy reminiscente de otro caso que hemos hablado múltiples veces aquí, así que déjame entrar de inmediato. Siento que necesitas saber la historia detallada. Necesitas saber todos los detalles, incluso si estás familiar con este caso ya desde el título.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y yo le dije, no tienes una elección. Tienes que volver a casa.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Hay mucho más debajo de la superficie cuando realmente empezamos a hacer nuestra investigación, así que déjame entrar de inmediato. Ella piensa que estoy
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Lo dijiste en el coche, pero no ahí con ella. Así que esta vez, porque alguien más estaba ahí para ver lo que pasó, es decir, la abuela de Colin, Colin fue arrestado y encargado de asesinato doméstico. Ahora, antes de que saliera de la custodia de su madre, Colin dijo a los policías que no iba a entrar en un coche con ella. Una vez más, dijo que si va a ir a casa, va a matar a su mamá.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y por cualquier razón, no sé cómo se dice, pero todavía podía ir a casa con ella, a pesar de que él hiciera estas amenazas. Sin embargo, sus comentarios le dieron otra visita a la policía. ¿Estás bien? Sí. ¿Qué está pasando? Bueno...
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Esto es solo de él agarrándome con su pie y estampándome mientras estaba en el cuarto.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que Colin todavía decía que esto era todo defensa de sí mismo, pero los policías lo retiraron de nuevo, pero antes de que se fuera, su mamá lo confrontó mientras estaba sentado dentro del carro de patrulla. ¿Le dijiste a ellos en la cárcel que me ibas a matar?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Si no hacemos algo, no lo haremos. Si no hacemos algo, no lo haremos.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
de nuevo, él y su mamá habían entrado en un argumento sobre algo, ya sabes, algo u otro, ya sea él en su teléfono, sus AirPods, lo que sea, sus grados, y esta vez, en lugar de herirla, entró en su coche y se fue a casa de su abuela en Auburndale, Florida, que es alrededor de dos horas de distancia de donde vivía con su mamá en Port Charlotte.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, la razón por la que fue allí es porque sabía que su abuela no estaba en casa, estaba en su otra casa en la Florida Keys, así que sabía que tenía todo el lugar a sí mismo. Ahora, su mamá, Catherine, sabía dónde estaba Colin, sabía dónde iba, pero todavía reportó su muerte a la policía de Port Charlotte.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
La abuela de Colin también llamó a la policía y les dijo, mira, aunque no estoy en mi casa en Auburndale y aunque estoy en la Florida Keys, todavía no me siento seguro con Colin en mi casa. Como, tienes que ir a encontrarlo, tienes que llevárselo a casa. Así que dos días después de que Colin se fue, los oficiales lo encontraron en Auburndale.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Fue convertido en el Departamento de Niños y Familias y le iban a traer a su madre en Port Charlotte. Pero, de nuevo, como en Clockwork, imagínate lo que dijo antes de que se volviera a su madre. Dijo que iba a matarla, y esta vez dijo que usaría cualquier fuerza necesaria para hacerlo. Pero, a pesar de todo eso, Colin todavía estaba reunido con su madre. All right, let's be real.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que el sábado 8 de septiembre de 2024, el 17 años Colin Griffith llamó al 911 justo después de las 6 de la mañana. Estaba en la casa de su abuela en Auburndale, Florida, y cuando llamó, le dijo al operador del 911 que él y su mamá habían llegado a un gran lucho. Claimó que su mamá, 39 años Catherine Griffith, le había chasado alrededor de la casa con un cuchillo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
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Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
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Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
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Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
¡Gracias! ¡Gracias! ¡Gracias!
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
También fue acusado de asesinato y fue acusado de violar su orden de contacto no violento. La justicia estatal anunció después si o no se encargarían de Colin como adulto.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
También le dijeron que la policía estaba en su camino. Así que Colin estaba en pánico y hizo lo que el operador le dijo hacer, pero también dijo, en cuanto a detener la herida, que su mamá había sido llenada de todo su sangre, así que no estaba herida, como que todo el sangre se sale, es o clorado, es llenado, no se sale más. Pero aún así, el operador le dijo que continuara con el CPR.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, desde que todo esto ha sucedido, la policía de Lincoln County en Oklahoma ha dicho que están dispuestos a mirar de nuevo en el caso de Colin, especialmente si reciben alguna evidencia para indicar que la muerte de Charles no fue un accidente, que no fue una defensa de sí misma, que esto fue un asesinato calculado. Así que Colin fue denigrado y quedó en la cárcel.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y después de su arresto, entró en una plega de no ser culpable. But before his trial, his attorney filed a motion requesting to exclude any information regarding his father's death. They didn't want any of that information or any of those details getting entered into Colin's trial for his mother's death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
They claimed that his dad's death wasn't relevant, so there should be no mention of it at the trial for Catherine's death. Ahora, en esta moción, el abogado de Colin también incluyó información que era claramente la versión de Colin de los eventos de lo que sucedió. Claiman que no salió. Su mamá lo tiró de la casa el 6 de septiembre.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que, con corazón y llorando, llamó a su abuela para ver si podía ir a la casa de ella, a la que ella le dijo sí. Así que lo hizo. Fue y quedó en la casa de su abuela. Y cuando Catherine vino a conseguirlo, dice que los dos lucharon y luego, entiendan esto, Ella es la que se ha atado a sí misma.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
La moción establece que Colin llamó al 911 con estrés y llorando, y diría que él se sentía decepcionado en el llamamiento, pero todos los primeros respondientes que llegaron a la escena aclararon que Colin era el exacto opuesto de estrés. Entonces, ¿qué era realmente cierto aquí? ¿Fue parte de eso una performance? ¿Era mentiroso? Sabemos que su defensa tiene que venir con algo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Entonces, la fecha de testigo de Colin fue de 29 de enero de 2025. Y en las reuniones pre-trial, los abogados de Colin realmente estaban tratando de obtener algunas de las mensajes de texto de Colin y Catherine excluidas de la evidencia.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
¡Hola, bestias de True Crime! Bienvenidos de nuevo a un nuevo episodio de Serialously.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y el detective principal, Danny Peters, testificó en una reunión sobre esos mensajes de texto, por qué eran importantes y por qué la gente estaba tratando de obtenerlos excluidos. Específicamente, él señaló un mensaje de texto que fue enviado por Catherine el día en que ella fue asesinada.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
En ella, supuestamente le dijo a Colin que tenía que irse a casa a las 10 de la mañana, o si no, iba a lanzar fotos de cámara de teléfono. Ahora, esta fotografía supuestamente mostró a Colin admitiendo a múltiples personas que no solo mató a su padre, sino que todo estaba planeado. No fue una defensa de sí misma, sino un asesinato intencional, completo con un cover-up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
En otra mensaje de Katherine a su madre, ella dijo algo similar. Si Colin no volviera a casa, iba a lanzar esta fotografía. Luego, en una conversación entre Katherine y su padre, Robert, Robert afirmó que tenía una grabación donde Colin supuestamente confió en matar a su padre. Pero aquí está la cosa. El detective Peters afirmó que no han sido capaces de encontrar ninguna de esas evidencias.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
No hay cámaras de teléfono que muestren la confesión de Colin, no hay grabación en el teléfono de Robert donde Colin admite matar a su padre. Pero Robert, su abuelo, se reunió con los detectives y hizo una declaración que Colin le dijo que planeó y asesinó a su padre por propósito.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que solo días después de que el detective principal testificara en la reunión pre-trial, los abogados de Colin trataron de tener algunas de esas mensajes de texto expuestos como evidencia. Y su argumento? Claimaron que Catherine había descubierto ciertas cosas sobre Colin, todo por acercarse a sus mensajes personales.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, no es exactamente claro qué estaba dentro de esos mensajes, pero los jurados dijeron que Catherine no tenía derecho a leerlos en primer lugar porque era una gran violación de la privacidad de Colin. Y porque ella podría haber encontrado algo incriminante en esos mensajes de texto y luego enviarlos a otros, querían que esos textos estuvieran completamente excluidos de la evidencia.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Sin embargo, parecía que se detenía en algún punto. Durante el llamamiento empezó a expresarse un poco de pánico y confusión, así que cuando llegaron los oficiales de la policía, realmente esperaban encontrar a un niño de 17 años que era simplemente inconsolable. Quiero decir, él justificó que su mamá accidentemente se tapó en el pecho y se huyó. Pero Colin no era inconsolable. Ni siquiera.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero, por supuesto, la juzgación tuvo un tomo diferente. Arreglaron que no, no, no, esto no fue una violación de la privacidad en absoluto. Catherine era la madre de Colin. Y los padres, en los ojos de la juzgación, tienen ciertos privilegios cuando se trata de supervisar a sus hijos. Así que para ellos, era solo una mamá haciendo su trabajo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
No fue esta invasión de la privacidad como la defensa estaba tratando de hacer. Lo que tengo que concluir con eso. Si eres un niño minoritario, Entonces, en la misma reunión, el juez contempló si debería mencionar que Colin mató a su padre.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, esto no significa que el crimen no sería mencionado en absoluto, pero el juez pensó que tal vez el nombre de Charles no debería ser mencionado, tal vez no debería ser mencionado que él era el padre de Colin. Así que si el crimen salió, iba a ser más general, como, bueno, sí, Colin estaba involucrado en un asesinato de defensa en Oklahoma. Pero no hay otros detalles aparte de eso.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
El juez también señaló que todo lo que ocurrió con Charles no podría ser súper relevante para el caso con Catherine. Y la lógica aquí es que incluso si Colin mató a su padre de manera intencional, no significa automáticamente que mató a su madre de manera intencional. Y no estoy diciendo que estoy totalmente de acuerdo, pero ese es el argumento que estaban haciendo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero estoy seguro de que algo que te ha cruzado la mente o algo que estás pensando, que también he pensado, es ¿qué si Colin se sentía amenazado por su mamá diciendo que iba a lanzar la evidencia de su confesión? La grabación, la fotografía de la cámara de teléfono, todo eso. Eso podría haber sido fácilmente su motivo por matar a ella.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Si ella iba a robar su secreto, podría haber sentido que tenía que matarla para protegerse. Así que si la justicia pudiera demostrar que las amenazas de Catherine eran lo que realmente empujó a Colin a la frontera, entonces el juez dijo que podría haber mencionado en su trial que Colin también mató a su padre, Charles.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero, corta historia, el juez decidió que el nombre de Charles no podía ser presentado durante el trial. La única cosa que podía ser mencionada fue que Colin estaba involucrado en un asesinato. Si alguien trajera a Charles por nombre, podrían ser acusados de contempo de justicia. Y luego el trial también sería declarado como un mistrial. Y esto sentía como un gran golpe a la justicia, al público.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Quiero decir, no estás dando al juzgado la completa imagen de lo que pasó aquí. Aunque lo entiendo, en muchos casos, no solo este, no es necesario traer información de antiguos crímenes o otras circunstancias porque no es relevante al crimen por el que estás en tránsito. Así que el tránsito de Collins oficialmente comenzó el 29 de enero de 2025. Y no fue como esperabas.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Siento que muchos de mis escuchadores aquí son mujeres, pero sé que hay algunos hombres aquí también. Y lo que voy a hablar contigo ahora es inclusivo para todos ustedes. No es solo un problema de chicas, es un problema para todos. Siento que todos deberían amar su cabello. Pero veámoslo de nuevo. Puede ser muy difícil cuando estás tratando de recortar o recortar. Y lo sé porque he estado ahí.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y por eso comencé a usar Nutrafol. Lo he escuchado, lo he escuchado a la gente gritar. Lo vi en mis redes sociales. Empecé a usarlo y, honestamente, me gustaría que empezara más pronto.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Nutrafol toma un enfoque de todo el cuerpo para la salud de los cabellos, trabajando desde el interior hacia afuera, así que realmente alcanza las causas principales de la retención, como el estrés, los hormonas, el crecimiento, la nutrición, incluso el estilo de vida.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y déjame decirte, después de quedarme con él, he notado menos aburrimiento, más fortalezas, y mi cabello simplemente se ve y se siente más saludable en general. Y lo que amo es que Nutrafol es un producto formulado por un médico y 100% sin drogas. Así que está hecha con ingredientes limpios de alta calidad que apoyan el ciclo de crecimiento natural de tu cabello.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y en un estudio clínico, 86% de las mujeres reportaron crecimiento de cabello mejorado después de seis meses. 86%. Construir una rutina de crecimiento de cabello es tan fácil porque Nutrafol lo envía directamente a tu puerta. No se necesita una prescripción. Y si te suscribes, puedes gastar hasta 20%.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Además, tienes acceso a consultas de médicos naturopáticos gratis y una asociación de meditación en el espacio de cabeza, que, vamos a ser honestos, me siento que, especialmente escuchando a True Crime, podríamos usar una meditación cada vez más. So if you're ready to take control of your hair health, start your journey today with Nutrafol.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Fue en realidad lo contrario. Estuvo tranquilo, estuvo genial, colectivo, sin preocuparse. Y todo esto a pesar del hecho de que estaba cubierto de sangre de su mamá. Parecía que no le importaba. Incluso si su mamá estaba aún dentro de la casa con él, ella todavía estaba llorando de esta herida profunda que tenía en su pecho. Quiero decir, esto era obviamente una circunstancia muy grave.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
And for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering $10 off your first month's subscription, plus free shipping, if you go to Nutrafol.com and use promo code AE. That's Nutrafol, promo code AE. Don't wait, give your hair the support that it deserves. El 8 de septiembre del año pasado.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que fue muy extraño, por decir lo menos. Y las cosas se volvieron más extrañas, porque cuando la policía le preguntó a Colin lo que había pasado, su respuesta era, quote, sé mis derechos, quiero un abogado. No diría nada más a la policía, no le diría más información sobre lo que pasó, no les diría más detalles sobre lo que pasó durante su lucha, era simplemente extremadamente incooperativo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Durante el juicio, la justicia realmente pintó esta imagen de Colin siendo este niño extremadamente desagradable. Que su mamá estaba constantemente comprando cosas bonitas para él, vacaciones divertidas, comprándole estos consoles de videojuegos. Y como si tuviera esta suministrada de Starbucks, realmente nunca quería nada.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y dicen que si ella alguna vez amenazó a tomar esas cosas, bueno, es cuando Colin lo perdería completamente y comienza a amenazarla. También trajeron varios testigos para apoyar su aclamación de que Colin tenía una historia de ser violento.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Uno de ellos fue el diputado Alexander Sharpe, el oficial que respondió a esa llamada de violencia doméstica que le llevó al arresto de Colin en noviembre de 2023. Según el diputado Sharpe, cuando llegó a la escena, Colin estaba totalmente tranquilo y totalmente recogido, casi como si nada hubiera ocurrido.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Mientras tanto, Catherine estaba visiblemente aburrida y incluso tenía marcas en su estómago desde donde Colin la había golpeado. Colin, por otro lado, aclamó que Catherine era la que le golpeó en la cara primero. Así que dice que debido a eso, necesita a ella en el cabello para defenderse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero el juez Sharp tuvo un duro momento en creer en esta historia porque Colin no tenía ni un solo marco en él. No hubo bruja, ni rojo, ni hueso, nada que rechazara su versión de los eventos. Otros testigos que testificaron por la consecución eran oficiales que trabajaban en la instalación donde Colin fue acto de Baker.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Una detectiva testificó que incluso escuchó a Colin hacer varias declaraciones sobre querer dañar o matar a su madre. Incluso dijo que preferiría estar en una cárcel de psicólogos, en la cárcel o en la cárcel de psicólogos, en vez de vivir con Catherine.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Continuó que Colin era una persona muy manipuladora, que se volvió furiosa cualquier vez que alguien le dijera no, pero también sabía cómo ser respetuoso con las personas correctas. como su abuela, que frecuentemente le traía cosas mientras estaba en esa instalación. Otro testigo, el corporal Joel Amor, testificó que Colin le dijo que tenía dos personas diferentes, Colin 1 y Colin 2.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Colin 1 estaba solo tratando de sobrevivir y pasar cada día. Pero Colin II, él era una historia completamente diferente. Colin II haría cualquier cosa para proteger a Colin I, incluyendo matar a su madre. Sin embargo, en otra ocasión, ella recordó a Colin diciendo que Colin I probablemente mataría a su madre también.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
El padre de Catherine, el abuelo de Colin, Robert, también tomó el puesto, y él testificó que recordó a Colin diciendo múltiples veces que iba a dañar a su madre.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Un niño de 17 años, con su madre ahora con una herida en su nariz. Así que, como se puede imaginar, la policía estaba bastante sospechosa de él. Quiero decir, por una cosa, como dije, él estaba demasiado calmo. Simplemente no parecía importar lo que sucedió en absoluto.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
No, me dijiste que le ibas a llamar. Me dijiste que ibas a llamar a tu vecino o yo a la policía. ¿Quieres que la policía venga?
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240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Luego, la fotografía captura a Catherine en el teléfono con su mamá.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y también, más allá de eso, que si esto era realmente un accidente, ¿por qué le pediría inmediatamente a un abogado que sabía sus derechos? Solo suena como si, no sé, estuviera preparándose para este exacto momento. Así que la policía entrevistó a sus vecinos en el área.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y uno de ellos dijo que alrededor de dos horas antes de que Colin llamara al 911, así que alrededor de las 4.30 pm, vieron a Colin y su mamá discutiendo. Y en un momento, dicen que vieron a Colin agarrándola por el cabello. Ahora, el vecino que lo vio, Nancy Jones, dijo que todo empezó cuando Colin estaba en la casa a sí mismo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Al final de esta fotografía, Catherine se fue a su casa para encontrar a Colin. Y esta fotografía fue la última fotografía de su escena viva. Detective Peters luego le dio mensajes de texto entre Colin y Catherine, que terminaron extrayendo de su teléfono.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
En estas mensajes, Catherine repetidamente le dijo a Colin que iba a cerrar su teléfono, que iba a cancelar su insurrección de coche, que iba a vender su coche... and that she was going to pull him out of school. In one message, she wrote, But unfortunately, Catherine's dad never sent those recordings, and Catherine never did follow through with any of those threats.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
So then it was the defense's turn to present their case. And they argued that the prosecution was just making a case out of emotions, not facts. They argued that Catherine was volatile. She was the one who was manipulative. She was the one who lied. And she was the one who created this tumultuous home environment for Colin. They argued that Colin didn't leave their home in September.
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240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
He had to leave. Because Catherine kicked him out. They also argued that Colin never pulled his mom by the hair outside of his grandma's home. En lugar, su versión de los eventos fue que Catherine se levantó a la casa para conseguir a Colin y comenzó a gritarle a él.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que para evitar hacer una escena, Colin le pidió que estuviera tranquila y luego la guía dentro del armario, donde pudieran tener más de una conversación privada y no traer tanta atención a sí mismos. However, the neighbor who witnessed this whole altercation testified that Colin did not just gently grab her arm and guide her inside.
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240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
He violently pulled her by the hair while Catherine was telling Colin, let me go. Now Catherine's mom testified too, but she testified for the defense. Ella estaba básicamente en total apoyo de Colin. Y esto fue realmente sorprendente para mí, porque supuestamente, recuerda, ella hizo las declaraciones en el pasado en las que expresó que estaba asustada de Colin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y incluso escuchaste a ella antes llamando a BS sobre su versión de los eventos, pero ahora aquí ella estaba testificando por él. Ahora, diré que eso podría ser porque ella realmente creyó en Colin y creyó que esto era accidental y que Catherine lo hizo a sí misma. O podría ser que ella era su abuela. Ella se sentía perdida por él. Ahora no tenía más padre ni madre. Ella ama a su abuelo.
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240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Su mamá Catherine llegó alrededor de las 4 pm y Colin vino y la encontró afuera. Nancy le dijo a los oficiales que abrió la puerta y había algunos argumentos. No sé exactamente qué eran las palabras porque estaba sentada en mi frente, pero la próxima cosa que sé es que él la agarra y la agarra dentro. Solo la agarró. Parecía que la agarró por el cabello.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ella quiere protegerlo. Tal vez era como ella simplemente estando en denuncia y queriendo salvarlo y protegerlo. Así que en su testimonio, ella testificó que Catherine era impredecible. Colen's grandmother also claimed that Catherine lied often, about a lot of things. She even claimed that Catherine lied once about being sexually assaulted.
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240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
And on top of that, she testified that she even witnessed Catherine handing Colin a gun and telling him to shoot her with it. She said that she beat him with a belt, made him do push-ups, made him hold a weight over his head while he ran in place. Just a lot of horrific behavior for a mother to... ...push onto her son.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
However, on the flip side, she also said that one time Colin took a knife from her house, and on that same day, Catherine called her expressing her fear of Colin.
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240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
She also recalled a time where all three of them went out to dinner at a restaurant, and Catherine had said that she was going to take Colin's Xbox away, his video game console, and Colin tried to get into a fight with her right there at the restaurant. He actually tried to get her to fight him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y solo suena como una relación muy volátil entre ambos, y tal vez ambos necesitan ayuda, no lo sé, pero parece que definitivamente hubo un comportamiento tóxico. Entonces, mientras la defensa continúa con su caso, en un truco muy asombroso, la defensa declaró que la muerte de Katherine era en realidad un caso de, quote, suicidio por hijo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, su argumento fue que Colin y Katherine sí, se hicieron una lucha, pero ella fue la que agarró el cuchillo primero. Y según ellos, lo hizo con propósito. Dijeron que Catherine sabía exactamente lo que estaba haciendo. Esto era parte de su comportamiento. Ella era manipulativa.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ella quería empujar a Colin a una rabia, sabiendo que iba a escalarse en un lucho muerto que le dejaría muerto y que le haría parecer culpable de tomar el fallo. Casi como una chica perdida, pero entre una madre y un hijo. Y si piensas que ese argumento funcionaría en un juzgado, bueno, escucha.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
El argumento de suicidio por hijo funcionó. El trial terminó el 4 de febrero y el 5 de febrero de 2025, el juzgado encontró a Colin no culpable. No culpable en todas las cargas. El juzgado que encontró a Colin no culpable hoy fue un hombre. Los demás eran mujeres. La abuela y la abuela de Griffith estaban en el tribunal hoy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Now, when this verdict came in, I've got to tell you, people were outraged. When I tell you, I have not seen a single comment or statement from anybody saying that they think the jury got this right. Everybody is in just complete shock and disbelief.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
And the majority of people, the general consensus, especially that this happened in Florida, is that this feels like it's Casey Anthony all over again. La gente está confundida. Es como, ¿qué diablos está pasando aquí? ¿Qué está pasando en Florida? ¿Cómo podría algún jurado encontrarlo no culpable?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y ella dijo que su madre, Catherine, estaba gritando a él para dejarla ir. Fue realmente un día triste.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y algunas personas incluso lo están tomando más allá, prediciendo que probablemente va a matar a su abuela. Porque él solo tiene 17 años. 17 años. Ambos de sus padres están muertos. Imagino que ahora sí, va a vivir con su abuela. ¿Y qué pasa cuando ella toma su Xbox? ¿Qué pasa cuando ella toma su teléfono y cuando él no va a correr toda la lluvia en esa casa? ¿Qué va a pasar?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
En mi opinión, este niño está claramente distorsionado. Tiene muchos problemas. No tienes dos padres que acaban muertos coincidentemente en un año y medio. ¿Cuándo en la Tierra hemos visto algo así suceder? No mencionando que la gente está enojada por el hecho de que el juez no se había hecho privado de la información sobre el padre de Colin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
La gente está diciendo, y de nuevo entiendo por qué podría haber tenido que ser excluido, pero la gente está diciendo que si el juez sabía que era su padre quien fue asesinado en defensa de sí mismo un año antes o un año y medio antes, probablemente eso hubiera afectado mucho su decisión.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y tal vez esa sea la razón por la que no fue traído al tribunal, pero de nuevo, imagino que cualquier persona que está en el tribunal, que ahora está mirando el caso completo como un todo, junto con su papá, que también está en el tribunal, imagino que la mayoría de ellos tienen que estar agotándose, diciendo, ¡Holy shit! ¿Qué hemos hecho? ¿Qué hemos hecho?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
¿Hemos dejado a un asesino y le hemos dado el reino libre para matarlo de nuevo? Grady Judd, el sheriff de Polk County, donde todo pasó, incluso lanzó una declaración en la que expresó su desconfianza. That investigation is ongoing. So like I said, as soon as we got the verdict in this case, I knew I had to come and talk with you guys about it. My personal opinion, they got it way wrong.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
They got it way wrong. This kid who has been diagnosed with PTSD, with personality disorder, who self-admittedly told a therapist, there's two versions of me, colon 1 and colon 2. This kid who...
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
mató a su padre en lo que él llama defensa de sí mismo, yo diría que probablemente no, pero luego continuó a amenazar a su mamá por meses y meses y meses entre la muerte de su padre y la muerte de su madre, amenazas documentadas, actos de Baker documentados. And the jury thinks he's innocent? That he's not guilty? That they couldn't prove that this wasn't self-defense?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
He was safely away from his mom. She comes to collect him so that he doesn't violate his probation. And not for nothing. He's a 17-year-old kid. She's within all of her rights to go and pick her son's grimy little ass up from his grandma's house. Of course. Así que, debido a eso, está asustado. No tiene más casa para sí mismo. Su mamá está tratando de instalar reglas sobre él.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que, un lucho sucede. Él hace lo que sabe y lo que puede hacer mejor. Lo que aparentemente ha hablado sobre en las grabaciones, también. Él podría salir de ahí. Se ha matado una vez. Podría hacerlo de nuevo. Y él hace eso. Él mata a su madre. Le toma un cuchillo. Lo plunga en su nariz. Y él afirma su defensa.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Again, all my opinion, all my speculation, do your own research, he has been proven not guilty. I don't think they got it right, just like I think the jury did not get Casey Anthony right, just like the jury did not get OJ Simpson right. And anytime this happens, it is just so frustrating because you can't help but wonder who's their next victim going to be.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
If they got away with it, clearly at 17 years old, he's got to be feeling pretty dang confident that he's gotten two murders under his belt and gotten away with it. Entonces, ¿quién es el siguiente?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Yo diría que es seguro que es la abuela, y odio decir eso, y realmente espero que sea malo, pero si él va y termina viviendo con ella, y si ella le da incluso el mínimo poco de resistencia, ¿crees que él va a tomar eso de sentarse? ¿No lo tomó de su papá? ¿No lo tomó de su mamá? ¿Crees que lo va a tomar de su pequeña abuela, que tenía los ojos rosados y cree que es inocente? ¡No puede ser!
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
O se va a convertir en una situación en la que ella realmente está asustada de él y le deja que haga todo lo que quiera. No hay reglas, no hay curfew, no hay obligaciones, nada. O, y estoy simplemente gritando aquí mientras las cosas van, si él termina siendo el beneficio ahora porque sus padres están muertos, su abuela, lo que sea incluido en eso...
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
¿Se convierte en un maldito porque claramente no tiene mucho impulso o regulación para que luego matara a su abuela porque quiere la herencia? Quiere el dinero. Quiero decir, hay un millón de opciones diferentes en la mesa aquí. Pero diría que en mi alma no creo que hayamos escuchado el último de Colin Griffith. Y eso es un pensamiento asombroso.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que les dije a ustedes en el final de este episodio... I'm going to put a poll over on Spotify. I wish Apple had a polling section. They don't, though, and YouTube doesn't either. But I will put the poll on Spotify. If you were on the jury, how would you have voted? Would you have voted guilty or not guilty? ¿Y por qué? Y no necesitas darme una explicación muy larga.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, incluso si este incidente ocurrió en la casa de la abuela de Colin, su abuela no estaba en casa. Ella estaba en su otra casa en la Florida Keys y no vio nada. Sin embargo, ella dejó a los oficiales saber que ella parecía estar asustada por Colin. Ella también dijo que tenía un pasado muy preocupante.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Solo me pregunto, ¿es culpable o no culpable? Y si quieres dar una explicación, por favor, hazlo. Y ya que no tenemos la opción de votar en Apple o YouTube, déjame saber en la sección de comentarios en YouTube y tú puedes dejarme saber en la sección de revisión en Apple. Estoy simplemente emocionada.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Cuando estaba viendo que ocurriera este trial, lo vi jugar en la televisión de la corte todos los días aquí en mi estudio y estábamos siguiendo. Estoy confundida. No puedo creer que esto es donde llegamos. Y todo el mundo está en shock. Quiero decir, esto es asombroso.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y cuando ves su pequeño grito en el tribunal cuando el verdicto fue leído, es un niño de adolescencia diabólico que solo se fue con dos asesinatos. Dos asesinatos, no incluso al mismo tiempo, donde era como, oh, nos encontraron no culpables en ambos. Dos tiempos separados. Quiero decir, al menos la investigación todavía está en marcha en el muerte de su padre.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que tal vez las cargas vienen con eso, pero... Espero, porque sí, técnicamente no fue encontrado sin culpabilidad, simplemente no lo encargaron con todo eso, así que veremos qué pasa con eso y tal vez se mantendrá en cuenta y ese será su karma y la justicia para su madre también, pero creo que debemos esperar y ver.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que gracias a todos por estar atentos a este episodio, es un episodio infuriante y sé que probablemente dejará a mucha gente. Pero este es uno de esos casos donde realmente intentas hacer sentido de cómo alguien podría llegar a esto. Y lo siento, no estoy tratando de juzgar. Yo creo en nuestro sistema de justicia, pero a veces no lo hacen bien. A veces simplemente no lo hacen bien.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y no creo que lo hayan hecho bien aquí. Y solo espero que su abuela se mantenga segura durante el resto de su vida, pero veremos. Bueno, chicos, muchas gracias por estar atentos. Volveré a estar en el micrófono con ustedes el viernes con todo lo que se está rompiendo esta semana en el mundo del crimen real.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Nuestro episodio de Highlights se publica el viernes, se publica en YouTube el viernes, así que te veré de nuevo para eso. Oh, y como noticia, vi mucho de tu feedback sobre que me querían hablar más de Justin Baldoni y Blake Lively.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
aunque también recibí un poco de feedback de la comunidad de YouTube que quieren que me quede más con el enfoque en el crimen real, así que traté de reunirme en el medio. Mi hermana y yo, si ustedes conocen a Amy, ella ha estado aquí antes, es una entusiasta del crimen real como yo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Hicimos un live stream juntos donde hablamos todo sobre la saga de Justin y Blake, todo lo que está pasando, nuestras opiniones. I didn't really have anything prepared so the live stream did get a little bit wild but it was cool because we had the live chat feature going.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
So many of you guys were chiming in with your thoughts with what your opinions are and we just talked through the whole thing together. So we did do that live stream. It's available over on Patreon. You can also see the live chat once you get access to it. So I will link that in the show notes or you can go to patreon.com slash Annie Elise. You can check out the live stream there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
I also have uploaded the audio version of that live stream and Aquí en Apple, bajo la tienda de suscripción, en caso, ya sabes, quieras ese contenido extra bonus. Bien, chicos, muchas gracias por estar atentos. Y hasta el próximo, por favor, sed bien, no matéis a la gente, cuídense, y solo estén seguros. Bien, adiós.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y eso es ponerlo de forma milde, porque una vez que todos aprendieron más sobre Colin, fue claro por qué. Fue claro por qué no solo tenía un pasado preocupante, sino por qué ella estaba asustada de él. Porque resulta que no fue la primera vez que alguien cerca de él se había dañado mientras estaban solos con él.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Mira, en febrero 14 de 2023, así que hace un año y medio antes de que toda esta situación ocurriera, la policía de Lincoln County, Oklahoma, también recibió una llamada de teléfono de Colin. Él tenía solo 15 años en ese momento, y llamó al 911 diciendo que su padre, Charles, había estado chocándolo alrededor de la casa con un cuchillo. Suena familiar, ¿verdad?
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
¡Hola a todos! Bienvenidos de nuevo a un nuevo episodio de Serialistly conmigo, Annie Elyse. Ok chicos, ahora sé que hablo con ustedes todo el tiempo y hablamos de cómo somos BFFs del crimen de verdad, cómo me gusta simplemente romper cosas con ustedes, hablar sobre cosas. Ni siquiera sé dónde empezar con este caso.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Bueno, Colin dijo que su papá lo rodeó en una habitación. Así que debido a eso, Colin no tenía otra opción que agarrar una arma que estaba cerca. Supongo que era conveniente dentro de la alcance de los brazos, no lo sé. Pero agarró la arma y luego disparó a su papá dos veces. Una vez en la cabeza y otra vez en el pecho.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Cuando los oficiales policiales llegaron, Charles, su padre, estaba mucho perdido. Él estaba por cierto ya muerto. Pero Colin aclamó que esto era todo defensa de sí mismo. Sin embargo, los policías no estaban tan seguros. Y no hay mucha información sobre este incidente, pero básicamente los policías aclamaban que la evidencia en la escena no correspondía bastante con la historia de Colin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y estoy pensando todo este incidente en mi cabeza, ¿vale? Pero Charles y Colin están luchando sobre algo, no sé, cosas de los padres de adolescentes, quién sabe. Charles agarra un cuchillo, luego empieza a perseguir a Colin alrededor de la casa, cubre a Colin dentro de una habitación, o cualquier tipo de habitación que sea,
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
una habitación que justo sucede de tener una arma cargada dentro de los brazos y Colin es capaz de agarrar la arma y disparar a su padre, no una vez, pero dos veces, justo en la cabeza y justo en el pecho, quiero decir, perfecto objetivo. No sé sobre ti, pero algo sobre esa historia simplemente no me agrada.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que los oficiales en ese momento trataron de cuestionar a Colin para que pudieran obtener una mejor imagen de lo que realmente sucedió, porque como dije, las cosas no estaban realmente agregando y no estaban agregando para los oficiales policiales tampoco. Pero Colin no les hablaba. Casi inmediatamente le pidió a un abogado, contrató a un abogado y refugió hablar con la policía.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
De nuevo, suena bastante familiar, ¿verdad? Bueno, Colin fue arrestado por el incidente y fue colocado en la cárcel. Sin embargo, su mamá pagó su bono de $50,000 y se dejó de la cárcel. Esto fue todo en la condición de que, por supuesto, tenía que estar en arrestación de casa, tenía que usar un monitor de pies y ellos iban a monitorear todos sus movimientos.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Así que los policías de Oklahoma estaban bastante seguros de que todo esto no era una defensa de sí mismos. Sin embargo, no pudieron encontrar suficiente evidencia para demostrar que no era así. Así que en el final, ninguna de las cargas contra Colin fueron derrotadas en marzo de 2023. Y luego fue enviado a Port Charlotte, Florida, para ir a vivir con su madre.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, resulta que Colin y su madre no habían vivido juntos por bastante tiempo. Los detalles sobre la relación entre Charles y Catherine no son completamente claros, pero algunas cosas que Catherine ha publicado en los medios sociales indican un poco que su relación no fue buena y, posiblemente, incluso abusiva. Los dos se separaron alrededor de 2019.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y eso es cuando Colin realmente fue a vivir con su papá en Oklahoma. Y parece que no estaba realmente en contacto con su mamá después de la muda a Oklahoma. Pero, de nuevo, los detalles no son completamente claros. Pero de todas maneras, después de su arresto en Oklahoma, Colin aclamó que su vida con su padre había básicamente sido un diablo vivo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Mucho así que Colin había confiado en su madre que su papá lo secó en la casa durante más de 1,000 días, todo porque Colin había salido a él como gay. Así que debido a eso, su papá se retiró y lo secó dentro de la casa durante, para ser exactos, 1,041 días. Dijo que su papá no lo dejaría ir a la escuela, no lo dejaría hablar con otras personas, no lo dejaría tener ninguna semblancia de vida.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Voy a ser honesta, al principio no estaba realmente segura de si iba a cubrirlo porque era interesante, pero había algunos detalles desconocidos, era un poco inclinante.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Solo estaba secado en la casa. Solo le daban una comida al día. Y, finalmente, las cosas escalaron. Fue muy tóxico entre los dos. Y, por supuesto, ya sabemos lo que sucedió después. Pero, desafortunadamente, cuando Colin volvió a vivir con su madre, las cosas no eran más fáciles. Ahora, desde el lado exterior, definitivamente no parecía así. Katherine publicó mucho en Instagram y Facebook.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y parece que ella podría haber tenido otros hijos aparte de Colin, pero ella siempre publicaba solo sobre Colin. Y, de nuevo, si solo miras las redes sociales de Katherine, Es como si ella y Colin tuvieran una gran vida. Catherine siempre estaba sonriendo en sus imágenes. Siempre tenía una captura positiva y elevadora que se le atendía. Ella también era profesora.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Y en uno de sus publicaciones, incluía una foto de una nota que un estudiante le dio a ella. The note said, So, aside from all of that, Catherine and Colin were also always going to the beach together, always going on vacations together. They were going on cruises, going to Disney World, Universal Studios, Washington, D.C. I mean, you name it. It looked like it was...
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero solo la semana pasada, algo tan asombroso sucedió en este caso que yo sabía, ok, es una barra de no-holds, no sé si esa es la expresión, creo que es, como, yo estaba como, necesito saltar el micrófono, necesito hablar de este caso porque está molestando mi mente, es un caso que todos estamos hablando ahora mismo y, honestamente, no es solo porque se cayó,
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
una madre y un hijo finalmente se unen después de años de no tener tiempo de calidad juntos y realmente reconstruir y reparar su relación y simplemente disfrutar de la compañía de los dos. Catherine incluso tuvo a Colin un nuevo Volkswagen Jetta.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ella estaba siempre saliendo de su camino para hacer lo que pudiera para él, conseguirle algo que le hiciera su vida más fácil para él y simplemente ser una mamá muy buena. Pero como sabemos, las redes sociales solo muestran una parte de la historia. Y las cosas detrás de las escenas eran mucho más duras, por decir lo menos. Today's episode is sponsored by Liquid IV.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Okay, I'm going to keep it real with all of you because I feel like we're like in the circle of trust, you know, you're my true crime BFFs, but this year I'm actually trying to stick to my new rituals, whether that's waking up earlier and not hitting my alarm a million times on my phone or making sure that I'm staying hydrated all day long. And that's where Liquid IV comes in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Now, whether you're doing it to start the year strong, I mean, do it your way, but make sure that you're staying hydrated while you do it. And you can do that with extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Ahora, ya os he hablado de ellos antes, pero Liquid IV es aportado por Live Hydroscience, lo que significa que solo un plato y 16 onzas de agua, te hidratan mejor que la agua sola, con tres veces los electrolitos de la bebida principal de deportes. Además, tiene ocho vitaminas y nutrientes esenciales. Y mi nuevo go-to es su limonada de hidratación, sugerente, sin azúcar.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Tiene este balance perfecto de frescas de azúcares, este kick citrusy, y es tan, tan bueno. Ellos también, el paquete, chicos, es tan conveniente.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Siempre tengo un par de paquetes en mi bolsa, ya sea para días largos en los que estoy grabando y necesito rehidratarme y, como, tener mis cordas vocales bien, ya sea viajando, tal vez, ya sabes, mañana después de una noche fuera cuando no me siento lo mejor y necesito, como, tostar algo en mi botella de agua, wink, wink, entiendes lo que quiero decir.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Pero es no GMO, es vegano, gluten free, dairy free y soy free. Así que no hay nada raro en él, es simplemente hidratación genial. Así que hagámoslo. Abraza tu ritual con hidratación extraordinaria de Liquid IV. Obtenga 20% de tu primer orden cuando vayas a liquidiv.com y usas el código AE en la ventana. Es 20% de tu orden cuando compras hidratación mejor hoy usando el código AE en liquidiv.com.
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
bien, no sé sobre todos ustedes, siento que me van a acordar conmigo en este, pero me gusta mantener mi dinero donde puedo verlo, desgraciadamente, los cargadores tradicionales grandes de wireless parecen que me gustan mantener mi dinero también, quiero decir, después de años de pagar billes de wireless ridículas que estaban llenos de, ya sabes cómo es, como tarifas bogus, percos gratis que en realidad terminan gastando más en el largo plazo, finalmente dije, estoy terminado, he tenido suficiente y
Serialously with Annie Elise
240: Did a Florida Teen Get Away With Murder - TWICE?! The OUTRAGEOUS Case of Collin Griffith
Voy a decirlo. Comienza con un S, termina con un int. Estaba sobre, sobre, sobre. Así que cambié a Mint Mobile. Y déjenme decirles que los salarios han sido increíbles. Pensé que era un gimmick. De verdad no lo es. Mint Mobile ofrece planes de wireless premium que empiezan a $15 al mes. ¿Lo escucharon bien?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Aber zuerst einmal, Andrew, er lebte eine halbe Welt entfernt in den Vereinigten Staaten, er war nirgendwo nahe Hongkong. Außerdem hatte er auch einige Probleme seiner eigenen, einige Probleme, die ihn viel zu beschäftigt haben, um sich mit Robert zu kümmern. Siehst du, Andrew hatte immer ein bisschen Interesse daran, Shortcuts zu nehmen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Du weißt, die Art, du weißt, die Art, die Art, die Art, die Art, die Art. Und im Grunde genommen, wenn es jemals eine Situation gab, in der es so sah, als ob er einen einfachen Geld machen könnte, war Andrew alles drin. Aber obwohl Andrew, du weißt, alle Geld, Geld, Geld, alle Zeit, hatte er auch eine andere Seite, eine Familienseite. Er hatte eine Frau namens Hayley und zwei Kinder mit ihr.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Jetzt sprechen wir über Hayley, weil sie auch sehr erfolgreich war. Sie passt so gut mit dieser ganzen Kissel-Familie ein, die sich um sich drückt, das Beste macht, das Beste macht. So viel so, dass sie eigentlich ein Olympia-Level-Skier war an einem Punkt. Sie hat auch ein bisschen Zeit als Stockanalystin gearbeitet, bevor sie verabredet wurde.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Hayley war einfach super klug und kam aus dem selben Welt, aus dem die Kissel-Brüder kamen. Ein Welt voll von alten Familienmoneyn. And remember earlier how I said that Nancy, Roberts' wife, was a lot like Andrew? Well, Hayley was basically the complete polar opposite of Nancy. She was very poised, very reserved, very quiet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And whenever she was out in public, people would just kind of take notice of her true elegance, her demeanor. She wasn't ever flashy or showy like Nancy was. She didn't spend a lot of money. She just was very, what's the word, you know, proper and old money but classy and nice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And it's funny how the brothers, you know, total personality opposites, sort of ended up marrying the female versions of each other, right? I mean, it's kind of interesting. It's almost like they did like wife swap or something. And you know what? Now that I really do think about it, there was a Lifetime movie about this case, about these brothers. And you know who played Andrew?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
John Stamos, Uncle Jesse. I totally remember it now, although I don't remember the name.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So back in 2002, you know, one year before Robert had completely just vanished, Andrew and Hayley had owned a beautiful unit in one of the best buildings in New York. And they totally loved living there. This was like glitz, glamour, had every single fixture and furnishing you could imagine. I mean, this place was just luxurious. It was top tier.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And after being there for a while, they decided that they loved it so much that owning just one unit, it wasn't enough for them. So they went ahead and they bought two more units in the same building. Then they knocked it all down and they combined all three of them into this like one super-sized, beautiful, gigantic home. They absolutely loved it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Not only the finishes, the furnishings, all of that, but again, just the building itself. So as time went on, Andrew even became more involved in the building's operations. At one point, he was even elected treasurer of the co-op board, which, let's be honest, it kind of seemed like a really great fit. I mean, this guy knew money.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Es gibt Elemente von extremen, extremen Wachstum, Verletzungen, Verhandlungen, ich meine, Brüder kämpfen, all diese Sachen. Und wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, und ich denke, ich bin es, ich denke, es gab sogar einen Lifetime-Film darüber. Ich muss es überprüfen. Ich bin ziemlich positiv, dass es da war. Aber anyway.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He had worked with the top firms out there, like I mentioned, Merrill Lynch, you know, investment banking, all of the things. So everybody had figured that if he had gotten himself that rich... that he would also surely be able to handle all of the business finances, right? I mean, it was a no-brainer. However, when Andrew got into this position, something just sort of shifted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He didn't just see it as a responsibility. He also saw it as an opportunity. See, being the treasurer meant that he now had control over how the HOA fees from the residents were being spent. You know, when you pay into an HOA, if you're in a community, it goes to lawn maintenance, gate, upkeep, whatever it may be, paint possibly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So now that he was the treasurer, he was able to really make those decisions. What are all of these HOA payments going toward? And I don't know the exact payment for his building, but I will say the HOAs in New York
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
are insane and every it varies area to area right state to state but let me just kind of level set for a minute so i think right now in california where i live i think my hoa is i want to say maybe like 200 a month okay maybe 300 and that no i think it's 200 or maybe it's two and some change i don't know it's something between two and three i don't know the exact number but anyway that goes towards like the things i just mentioned you know upkeep this and that all the little things that go into an hoa
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
However, when I lived in New York, I wasn't paying an HOA because I didn't own in New York because it feels like impossible to own there. It's so expensive. However, the building I was renting in, I just got curious one day and I was like, what would it cost to buy one of these units?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
First of all, the apartment I was living in, it was going to cost me like $2 million to buy it, which, hi, hello, couldn't afford that. But then I looked at the HOA fees. The HOA on top of the mortgage was $1,700 a month. This was also back in 2019. I looked recently and it was like $2,700 a month. Also das ist Geld, das ist wie ein Rentenbetrag oder ein Kreditbetrag auf sich selbst, richtig?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Also es ist viel Geld in New York, einfach in diese HOAs zu gehen. Und weil du es auch denkst, ohne dass du im U-State lebst oder in einem Brownstone lebst, sind es fast nur Gebäude, in denen Menschen leben. Diese wirklich schönen Apartementen, aber Gebäude. Also es ist so viel Geld, einfach durch die HOA gefunnelt.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And the reason I wanted to bring all of that up is to just kind of remind you, as I'm talking about this, how much opportunity that was. Because now Andrew was controlling all of the HOA that comes in every single month, all those fees. And not only that, but he was also responsible for how it's going to be distributed, where it's going to go, what they're going to use that money for.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So it's a lot of money and it's a lot of responsibility. Even though that was a long-winded explanation, you get what I mean. So now he had a lot of freedom in how he managed things, what contractors he would hire, what he would pay for. And with power comes great responsibility, right? And this is where things started getting a little bit shady.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
It was one that always just like piqued my curiosity because it had all of the elements of just insanity and also kind of like making yourself question like, who would ever do this when you literally have the entire world at your fingertips, the means to do anything you want in the world. And it's just wild. I feel like some of those are... Er hat Geld verdient.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Okay, so real talk, if you're tired of playing the what's for dinner game every single night, especially when you're already juggling a million things, which same, HelloFresh is seriously the life hack you didn't even know that you need. It totally takes the stress out of dinner.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
No last minute grocery runs, no scrolling Pinterest for a recipe that you'll end up giving up on halfway through if you're anything like me. You just check your fridge and boom, dinner is basically done for you. And get this, Sie haben über 50 vollständige, ohne Fuss-Maschinen, die du jede Woche auswählen kannst.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Also egal, ob du etwas Leckeres, etwas Leckeres oder etwas ein bisschen anderes möchtest, du hast Optionen. Ich liebe es, dass du es jede Woche mischen kannst und es nie mühsam fühlt. Außerdem, wenn du jemals in einem seriösen Zeit-Krunch bist, was, wiederum, das gleiche ist. HelloFresh hat diese neuen, vorbereiteten Maschinen, die in 3 Minuten literally bereit sind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Es ist wie all die Qualität, die man erwarten würde, aber nichts von dem Zimt, nichts von den Dichtern, dem Arbeit, dem Gedanken, alles davon. Du wäschst es einfach auf und isst es. Also egal, ob du auf quick meals, minimal cleanup oder einfach nicht darüber nachdenken musst, was für ein Abendessen ist, HelloFresh beinhaltet alles. Deshalb ist es namens America's No. 1 Meal Kit.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So get up to 10 free meals and a free high-protein item for life at hellofresh.com. One item per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as a discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to hellofresh.com. That's hellofresh.com.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Okay, wenn ihr jemals die Label auf eure Kinder Vitaminen gewechselt habt und gemerkt habt, dass sie einfach nur Kälte sind, die eine Multivitamin-Label hat, dann seid ihr nicht alleine. Denn einige davon, nachdem ich ein bisschen Forschung gemacht habe, haben bis zu zwei Teelöffel Zucker. Was so wild zu denken ist, wenn du denkst, dass du dein Kind das jeden Tag gibst, richtig?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Das ist viel Zucker. So that's why I was really excited to try Haya for the first time a few months back. It's a chewable vitamin that is made just for kids, but without the sugar, without the gummy junk, yet somehow it still tastes really good. Even picky eaters don't put up a fight, which honestly shocked me. And yes, you know, I'm nosy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
You know, I like to do things and like do my research and do diligence. So I did taste one just because I wanted to see what I was giving my kids. And it's kind of like Zitrusig, aber wirklich mild. Es ist nicht schockierend, wie ich erwartet habe. Außerdem bekommen die Kinder diese hübsche reutilisierbare Flasche mit ihrer ersten Bestellung.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Es kommt mit Stickern, damit sie es so dekorieren können, wie sie es wollen. Und meine Kinder lieben das. Sie haben es sehr ernst genommen. Es war fast wie eine Kompetition. Emmys waren pink, es gab Barbie-Sticker überall und sie liebt es. Also haben wir einen besonderen Deal mit Hiya für ihre bestsellernden Kinder-Vitamin. HiaHealth.com slash A-E.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So from the sound of things, Andrew had a lot of control as treasurer over how everything went down. And nobody really paid attention to what he was doing. They trusted him. They thought that he would make the right decisions. You know, why wouldn't he? He built incredible wealth on his own. Surely he knows how to manage money. So because nobody was paying close attention...
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
It became really easy for him to order some work that needed to be done in the building and then skim a little bit off the top for himself. For example, at one point, the building needed to have its lobby and hallways renovated.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And Andrew was the one who was collecting all the quotes for different parts of the renovations, you know, looking at the different contractors, deciding who to hire, all of those different elements that go into it. And after he got all of that information together, he said that the total renovation would cost about $1 million.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Das war etwas, das er nicht kontrollieren konnte. Weil sie nicht überleben wird.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Das ist ein ziemlich heftiger Preistag für eine Halle und ein Lobby, oder? Aber hier ist das Ding. Sobald das Werk fertig war, waren die Leute, die in diesem Gebäude lebten, überhaupt nicht beeindruckt. Sie hatten eine bestimmte Idee in ihren Gedanken, wie eine 1-Millionen-Dollar-Renovation aussehen würde, wie eine 1-Millionen-Dollar-Halle aussehen würde.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, es sollte so aussehen wie Florida-Selbstern-Marble, das echte 14-Karat-Gold innen drin, oder? Ich meine, das ist so teuer. Und was alle schauten, sah einfach nur teuer aus. So they were all wondering how in the hell this renovation could have possibly cost as much as Andrew said that it did. Yet still they trusted him. I mean, after all, he also lived in the building, just like them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He certainly didn't want to live in some crappy, cheap looking building. Plus, he was their neighbor, maybe even their friend, so why would he ever lie to them? So nobody questioned it. And he got away with it. And that hallway and lobby project was just one scam that he ran, one of the many.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I mean, Andrew was doing this over and over again with all kinds of different work projects in the building. And get this, over the course of his time as the co-op board treasurer, Andrew managed to steal millions, multiple millions, because he basically stole from every single project that he worked on. There wasn't a single renovation or a single repair that he handled in an honest way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He always skimmed money off the top. Jetzt, was so verrückt ist für mich in all dem, und vielleicht ist es nur eine Illustration, wie viel Geld es in New York gibt, aber wie kann jemand es schaffen, mehrere Millionen Dollar zu skimmen, ohne dass jemand es bemerkt? Das ist so verrückt für mich.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, das ist wie ein Leben, in dem ich leben möchte, in dem ich nicht bemerken kann, dass Geld verpasst wird. Kannst du dir das vorstellen? Ja. Can you imagine? Which that's what like honestly kills me about these cases that we talk about. Because it's like you literally had everything in the world you could possibly want. And I say that loosely. Everybody has issues, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Money doesn't buy happiness. But like that's a lot of money. I think that could buy a lot of happiness for somebody. So to throw it all away, it's just, I never will understand it. Nun, was ich sagen werde, ist, dass eventuell, obwohl es lange gedauert hat, das Board bemerkt hat, dass es etwas Geld fehlt. Und sie endeten, alles zurück zu Andrew zu tracken.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Und wenn sie es gemacht haben, hat er sich einfach aufgeregt. Aber er hat sie auch gebeten, nicht an die Polizei zu gehen. Er hat gesagt, du weißt, ich bin sorry, ich habe eine Familie. Du kannst mir das nicht tun. Wir sind Freunde. Ich bin so sorry. Ich verspreche, ich werde es zurückzahlen. Ich war einfach in einem Bind. Es wird nie wieder passieren.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And because he was begging and pulling the friend card and acting so sorry and remorseful, it's pretty wild, but it worked. The board actually agreed not to press charges against Andrew. They agreed to just let him off the hook as long as he eventually paid the money back. So, that's what he did.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So I know that that was a lot about Andrew and we were talking about Roberts vanishing act, but I do think it's important to cover all of the background just so that you can get true context as to who we're talking about. And it shows you what Andrew was truly up to. He wasn't exactly an honest or ethical person, but he also had never done anything violent.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So that takes us back full circle as to why he was not a suspect in his brother Roberts disappearance. Und noch mehr als das, als sein jüngerer Bruder Robert verletzt wurde, war die Überzeugung, dass Andrew nur zu beschäftigt war mit seinen eigenen finanziellen Problemen, um mit der Verlustung nichts zu tun zu haben.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Stattdessen begannen die Polizei ihre Investitionen am letzten Ort, an dem Robert gesehen wurde, seinem Wohnzimmer. Und sofort bemerkten sie, dass etwas falsch war. Es gab diesen seltsamen, fast sauren Geruch, der super, super intensiv war. But as they kept looking through the apartment, nothing particularly alarming jumped out at them. At least, not right away.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I apologize for that. But let me just rewind and take us all back to more of our time, like of our youth, our childhood, our teenage years. Because if you ever grew up with either a sibling, maybe a cousin, or even somebody who was just close in age to you and you were with all the time, You probably know what I'm talking about when I say that sometimes there was an element of rivalry, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But it's helpful to keep in mind that the search actually did take a really long time, which honestly probably shouldn't be that surprising, because I talked about how luxurious this apartment complex was, right? I mean, it was massive. Aufgrund all der anderen glamourösen Features, die darin waren, gab es auch eine Menge zusätzlicher Versorgung.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Weißt du, eine Menge Raum, insbesondere eine zusätzliche Versorgung, irgendwo anders, völlig in dem Gebäude. Also natürlich, weil das so war, wollte die Polizei auch das Gebäude suchen. Und sie wollten sehen, was sie finden konnten, wenn etwas drin war. Nun, wie es sich herausstellt, sahen sie sofort Boxen von Dingen, die so aussehen, als ob sie zu Robert gehören könnten. Fast Dinge wie Kleidung.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Aber sie hatten Blut über ihnen. And remember the smell that those officers had noticed inside their apartment? Well, there was that same odor in this new area. The only difference was, it was ten times worse in this area. The place just reeked.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So finally, after the police sorted through the stuff in the bloodstained boxes, they noticed that there was a rolled up rug, like a rolled up carpet style rug in the back corner. And I'm sure a lot of people's minds are going to a worst case kind of direction right now. We know this is not a good sign.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
If you've got a bad odor, a rolled up rug, pretty safe bet that there's a body inside of it, right? And sure enough, when the cops pulled that carpet out and unrolled it, Roberts body was stuffed inside. And not only that, it looked like he had been dead for days.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Even more, his skull was completely bashed in, which, let's just be real, that would have taken some effort, because Robert was a pretty big guy. So whoever had done this to him, it had to be somebody who was incredibly strong. It was also very clear that this was intentional.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He didn't say, you know, trip and fall and hit his head badly and then somebody tried to cover it up because it was an accident. In fact, even before the police were able to order an autopsy, they could just tell by looking at his head injuries that he had been bludgeoned to death. Aber die Frage in allem war natürlich, wer hätte das getan? Wer würde Robert tot machen wollen?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Eine frühere Theorie war, dass Robert an einem gewissen Zeitpunkt in irgendeinem Schaden befasst wurde. Ich meine, die Geschäftsentscheidungen, die er gemacht hatte, waren alle für Millionen und Millionen von Dollar. So it was all very high risk, high reward, that kind of situation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So if, say, Robert somewhere along the way maybe pissed off the wrong person or lost too much money and somebody was angry about that, could they have decided to take matters into their own hands? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time where we've heard a story where business matters became personal very, very quickly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Another similar theory was that maybe Robert had gotten mixed up in the wrong crowd. Because again, he was dealing with huge amounts of money, I mean millions of dollars. So when you're making these power moves, it's not hard or difficult to get wrapped up in different shady groups or even possibly organized crime groups.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He did have ties back to New York and Jersey as well, so was there some sort of connection there? So the next theory that went was kind of like, you know, even if Robert hadn't lost anybody's money and he did everything exactly right, He might have just been involved with the wrong sort of people. And because of that, it could have just put a target on his back.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So basically, there were a ton of possibilities. It really was endless. And this next part might be pretty shocking to hear. But just two hours after his body was found, at 2.41 a.m. on November 7, 2003, the police arrested his wife Nancy for his murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Und wenn du dich fragst, okay, wie konnte die Polizei diesen Fall so schnell lösen, nach, weißt du, 120 Minuten, in denen sie keine Ahnung hatten, wie er verschwunden war, wer verantwortlich war, was wirklich in einer echten Befugnis enthalten war, dann ist es so, dass Nancy, seine Frau, einen wirklich schrecklichen Job gemacht hat, um ihre Träume zu öffnen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Not just sibling rivalry, but just even with your peers, where it's who's going to race to the finish line and get there first. I know with my son and my daughter, it's always, you know, me first, me first, this and that. And there's just like, you know, a little bit of healthy competition.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, klar, sie hatte absolut keine Ahnung, was sie machte, wenn es darum kam, mit dem Mord wegzukommen. Was, du weißt es, ich liebe es, wenn das passiert. Now remember that weird smell that I mentioned inside the apartment, not even the storage area, but inside the actual unit? Well, it turns out that Nancy had been sleeping in the same bed as Roberts corpse for days after he was killed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Literally right there in bed with his body sleeping next to him. And remember that shopping trip that she went on to, you know, cope with him disappearing and him missing because shopping was how she always dealt with her stress? Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And it's kind of natural, especially when you're younger, whether it's your sibling, your best friend or your cousin or whomever it is. It seems like that's something that everybody goes through a little bit in their childhood, but the common thread in all of it is that it's never, never ending. You know, you grow up, you grow out of it, and you kind of move on from that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Although sometimes when you get older, if you're somebody where those little games don't stop, they could sort of shift a little bit. Where maybe all of a sudden it's not about who can run to the end of the block the fastest or who is the first to call shotgun and sit in the front seat, but it's more on a larger scale.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
You know, who's doing better in life, who got into the better college, who has the bigger house, who earns the most money, whose Instagram has the most followers or shows the most picture-perfect family. Those kinds of things, where you're constantly comparing yourself to that close person in your life. Now like I said, obviously this isn't how it works for everyone.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 was that Nancy was also making plans. Nancy wasn't satisfied to just divorce Robert to leave him and then go live and ride off into the sunset with Michael in the trailer park. She wasn't about to give up the life of luxury. But from what I can tell, she also had no idea about what Robert was even up to.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Not all family or close friend relationships are full of rivalry or any sort of competition. Some people really do just get along with their siblings and their close friends. But so far as Andrew and Robert Kissel were concerned, their whole relationship really was about competition and truly about trying to outdo one another.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
She had no idea that he found out or that he was planning to divorce her. Yet she was already thinking two steps ahead, being like, I want to leave him, but I don't want to leave my financial situation. Und das ist der Grund, warum alle glauben, dass das der echte Grund für all das war, dass sie mit Michael sein wollte, aber sie wollte alle Roberts Geld behalten.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Und das ist der Grund, warum manche Leute glauben, dass sie ihn über ihr getötet hat. Manche sogar suggerierten, dass diese Schmerzen und diese Marken auf ihrem Körper, als sie zum Arzt ging, nicht von sich selbst, sondern von ihrem Freund Michael waren, um es so zu machen, als ob sie wirklich gebattert und verabschiedet gewesen wäre.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So it took almost two years for Nancy to go to trial for Roberts murder. It happened in 2005 and it was headline news all over Asia, particularly in Hong Kong, where the murder had happened. And looking back, it was basically like their version of the Idaho murders or even the Chris Watts case, right, to what that is in the United States.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now, when they were growing up, Andrew and Robert both spent some time in Saddle River, New Jersey, which, that's a high-income and very peaceful area, which is only about 25 miles outside of New York City. They also had a younger sister named Jane, and their father, he was a successful businessman.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I mean, every single new development, it was in the papers, it was on the news, it was... Wherever you could see it, not really social media at the time, but you get it, any outlet that could talk about it was talking about it. And it was all that anybody in the public was talking about too. Now by the time the trial started, Nancy had completely changed her look.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
She was now dressing super modest, she dyed her hair to be darker, she was wearing glasses. It felt very much like a page from the Jodi Arias case. And I don't remember thinking back to it now, who came first, Nancy or Jodi. But remember, Jodi did this too. She dyed her hair dark. She put on the glasses. She started speaking in like a very quiet, meek type way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So maybe Nancy wanted to be less recognizable. Maybe she wanted to look like a humble wife instead of the type who was a party woman, wealthy, wearing designer. Ich glaube, es hat mit den Leuten in Hongkong zu tun. Es war ein Blick auf eine Welt, die sie nicht gewohnt haben.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now, even though she pleaded not guilty, when her cross-examination started, Nancy admitted point blank that she had killed her husband. At first, it was shocking, but it also made sense because she was claiming self-defense, which fit with that visit that she had made to the doctor about Robert allegedly hitting her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
According to Nancy's testimony, Robert was this alcoholic, this rage-fueled drug addict, and he had abused her for years, including sexually assaulting her, but she painted him in a very negative light.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Sie schlägt raus. Sie kann es nicht erinnern. According to her, she wasn't trying to kill him back then when she did that, but she was worried about the way that he was acting around the children. She says he was aggressive. And Nancy claimed that by drugging him, it really was the only way and the only thing that she could think of to get him to just like chill out and behave better.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He always pushed the two of them to be as great as they could possibly be, you know, great at everything they did. Kind of almost like a Menendez Brothers-type dynamic, if you get what I'm saying, like, less all the sexual assault allegations, of course, but... aber er hat sie wirklich zum absoluten Top-Tier bestmöglichen. Und manche sagen, dass er sie sogar ein bisschen zu viel gedrückt hat.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
She also said that she did the same thing at one point while they were living in Hong Kong. But then after that, she ended up dumping out the bottle and never even thought about it again. Except, of course, you know, for the night that she ended up, you know, murdering him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But even with that story and honestly quite a bunch of people who were on her side and believed her, it only took the jury eight hours to reach their decision. Nancy was guilty and her sentence was life in prison. But this was far from over. Now, after Roberts' murder and with Nancy now in prison for the rest of her life, their kids needed a place to live, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So after the trial ended in 2005, Roberts' brother Andrew and his wife Haley took all of these kids in with no questions asked. I mean, obviously they would do anything for their nieces and nephews. And it also probably didn't hurt that they were going to be inheriting Roberts' entire estate, which, by the way, was worth 18 million dollars.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now, in theory, you would think that Andrew and Haley wouldn't care at all about his brother's money. Even with Andrew's history of scamming, he wouldn't want to steal from his own brother and his own brother's children, right? Especially after Robert was brutally murdered. Right? Well, as it turns out, the money that Andrew had taken from his building's co-op, it was just the tip of the iceberg.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
The whole time that he had been doing his supposed real estate work, you know, supposedly making tons of money with these brilliant business deals... He was actually ripping people off. He filed multiple mortgages and remortgages on huge properties, forging signatures saying that his loans were paid off when they definitely weren't. And then he just shuffled the money around to fund his next scam.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
One of Andrews scams included going to multiple banks and getting mortgages on the same property at all of them. So each bank thought that they were the only one giving him the money. But actually he was collecting a bunch of different loans all at once. And while that's super illegal, it was a lot easier to pull off in the mid 2000s than it would be today.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Back then banks didn't have the same fraud alert systems that they do now. And honestly it sounds like they weren't really looking too hard either because they wanted his business so badly they just kind of made it work. But the crazy thing is, Andrew kept doing this over and over and making, or I guess I should say stealing, millions of dollars in the process.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He did this so many times and on such massive properties. So much so that this money was really starting to stack up. And he was able to get away with all of it because he basically dressed well, he knew the right people. Remember, he knew how to like grease the elbows and talk to people and be super charming. So they all assumed that they could just trust him. But eventually, he got caught.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Because he got sloppy. Actually, he was kind of always sloppy, it just took a while for somebody to finally take notice. But it turns out that Andrew was using the same notary signature stamp on the paperwork for every single one of these mortgage deals. And it said that the notary was a notary in Connecticut.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So at first, no one really noticed, because, you know, using the same notary isn't that weird if you're doing all of your deals in the same area. But Andrew wasn't. He was operating in a bunch of different states, some of which were nowhere near Connecticut.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And eventually, some of his business partners started to wonder why he would go all the way to Connecticut just to notarize their documents when he could take care of it with somebody who was local. And it was actually a real estate lawyer who noticed something fishy for the very first time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
She was going through some of his paperwork, just kind of like rifling through, when she noticed the same notary stamp just popping up again and again. So because of that, she decided to dig a little bit deeper. And as it turned out, Andrew had never gone to a notary at all, not even this fake Connecticut one.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
It turns out he had stolen the stamp from the actual notary and then he had been using it to make all of these fake documents look legit.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Aber ihr wisst, wie es ist, richtig? Eltern wollen das Beste für ihre Kinder. Und wenn du in einer extrem hohen Wachstumssituation bist, manchmal fahren diese Eltern ihre Kinder ein bisschen schwerer, wollen sie nicht nur die Erfolge ihrer Eltern entfernen, sondern auch einen Namen für sich selbst nennen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Haley und Andrews Beziehung machte sich nicht so gut, und es sah so aus, als ob Haley sich auswählen wollte. Sie hatte sich an Andrews Lügen und Schämen gewöhnt, und dadurch war das ein riesiger Schaden an Andrew. Seine mentale Gesundheit war ein ziemlich großes Schaden. Es sah so aus, als ob er zerbrochen, zerstört wurde, und es war fast so, als ob die Wälder ihn endlich auf ihn schließen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Und erinnert ihr euch an das ganze Wachstumsfraud-Schema? Es war so schlimm, dass die FBI mit dem Thema involviert wurde. And they had all of the evidence that they needed to prove exactly what he was doing. So, he was officially charged with 25 million dollars worth of fraud in three different states. There was no escape. There was no getting away from these consequences this time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So, Andrew accepted a plea deal that would have him serve 8 to 10 years in prison. However, he never made it to court to formally offer the plea. Because just a few days before he was supposed to show up on April 3rd, Andrew was found dead inside his own home. He had been stabbed to death and he was left behind in a pool of his own blood. Okay, so let me just say this up front.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I did not expect a mattress to make this big of a difference in my life. But I have talked to you about Helix before. I started my Helix journey, when was it? Gosh, I think it was like 2021, maybe 2022. But our Helix has totally changed sleeping for me. It's just like a moon cloud. It's even changed sleeping for my mom. You may have remembered me telling you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Meine Mutter schlief eine Nacht über, um die Kinder zu sehen. Sie liebte das Kühlschrank. Wir haben ihr Helix gekauft. Sie liebt es. Meine Schwester war gerade für den Weihnachtsabend mit den Kindern. Sie liebte es auch. Also es ist etwas, was jetzt ein Stapel in unserem Haus ist. Bevor wir unser Helix gekauft haben, habe ich mit allem geredet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So the point is that in all of that, and whether it was too harsh or not, the father's lessons always stuck with the brothers. They were never okay just saying that they had done something good enough or that it was all right or okay. They always felt like they could do better and they always felt like they should have done more too.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, das Schmerzen in der Mitte der Nacht, das Tönen und Drehen. Ich würde auf meinen Hüften weh aufwachen, weil es nicht die richtige Menge von Stabilität oder Leckerheit war. Und lasst mich nicht damit anfangen, den Motionstransfer zu machen. Wenn Jeremiah so viel überrollt ist, würde es fühlen, ich bin gar nicht verrückt, er wird mich für das hassen, wie ein Mini-Earthquake.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Aber ich habe es einfach nie gemacht. Ich habe immer aufwachen und wechseln gemacht. Also habe ich den Helix-Sleep-Quiz genommen und mich mit dem Helix-Sunset-Lux ausgetauscht. Und es hat sich für mich gemacht. Ich schwöre, es fühlt sich so an, als ob es nur für meinen Körper geschaffen wurde. And now don't wake up sweaty anymore. I don't feel every single little move that Jeremiah makes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I am well rested. It's like my moon cloud. Even my sleep scores have gone up. And look, I've always been a morning person. I like waking up, getting out of bed, getting my day started. Now all I want to do is lay in my comfy moon cloud, watch Desperate Housewives and not leave my bed. I just want to rot all day. So, I know I can't do that, but I'm telling you, that is how comfortable it is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
We've now had our Helix, like I said, for quite a few years, and it's one of those upgrades that you don't even realize that you need until you have it. It's now a staple in our house. It is a must-have. So if you're waking up sore, tired, or just not feeling rested, I cannot recommend it enough. Sleep really is everything and Helix finally got it right.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So go to helixsleep.com slash serialesleep for 20% off site-wide. That's helixsleep.com slash serialesleep for 20% off site-wide. helixsleep.com slash serialesleep. So Andrew was now found inside his home, stabbed to death. His body was found by some movers that he and his wife Haley had hired. They were supposed to move out of their home that day and be out for good.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And the movers were supposed to pack up the last few things that were still inside. But instead, they found Andrew in his basement, tied up with zip ties and duct tape and, of course, stabbed multiple times. The scene was insanely messy and just violent, which made it seem very personal. It was clear that this wasn't some sort of random break-in gone wrong. Aber wer würde ihn tot wollen?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Nun, es gibt ein paar Theorien. Die erste war, dass Andrew sein eigenes Leben genommen hätte und es dann als Mörder ausgedreht hätte. Ich meine, er war definitiv nicht in einem guten Ort, emotional oder mentale, als er gestorben ist. Definitiv nicht. Er war fast in die Gefängnis. Und außerdem hat er sein gesamtes adultes Leben versucht, sich zu sehen wie ein Erfolg, als ob er super erfolgreich war.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And now he was completely exposed as a fraud. So maybe that left him feeling like he had no good options except to die. Except of course it's pretty hard to stab yourself to death multiple times. At a certain point you would be hurt enough or you would hit the wrong artery enough that you would have lost enough blood that you wouldn't be able to keep driving the knife in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, ohne dass du Ellen Greenberg bist und Leute denken, dass sie das gemacht hat, was das ist, wenn du das nicht gehört hast, dann linke ich es in den Show Notes, aber Leute glauben tatsächlich, dass es ein Suizid ist, was mir verrückt ist.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Aber was ich damit meine, ist, wenn du dich mehrere Male stürzt, dann wirst du zu weich, um zu bleiben, oder du wirst etwas treffen, was dich verletzen wird oder eine große Blutverschmutzung erzeugen, etwas. So that, not to mention the fact that his hands were zip-tied together, literally, I mean, it would have been absolutely almost impossible for Andrew to kill himself this specific way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Sie wollten auch immer mehr, was, muss ich sagen, ziemlich ironisch ist, wenn du wirklich zurückstehst und darüber nachdenkst, weil Robert und Andrew ziemlich reich geworden sind, wie ich schon erwähnt habe. Sie wollten nie wirklich für etwas in der Leben. Sie brauchten nicht mehr Geld, um dieses stabile und komfortable Leben zu leben. Sie hatten es bereits.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Not unless, of course, he had help. So another thought and another theory was that Andrew might have taken out a hit on himself, had other people do it, but he was still the one responsible for the plan of it all. Because again, maybe he didn't want to go to prison, maybe he didn't want to face the music, maybe he didn't see any other way out except for death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But also, most likely because he didn't want his children to know that he had died at his own hands. So people think he arranged his murder, basically all for his family's peace of mind. Some people also suggested that it could have been almost like an Aaron Hernandez type situation, where he wanted to, and this is all alleged with Aaron, but where...
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Andrew might have wanted to stage it as a murder rather than him being the one who planned it so that the financial element would be protected so that his family would get the life insurance policy that they would still be financially taken care of. So it seemed to make sense and the cops entertained that theory for a while. But ultimately they just felt like it wasn't right.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
It sounded way too elaborate. And frankly, even if that theory was true and Andrew had gotten himself murdered, that is still a crime. It's not like you get a get out of jail free card for somebody murdering you if you hire someone to kill you. Like it just doesn't make sense. So either way, whatever the motive was, this case, it still needed to be solved.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Especially because with all of the people that Andrew had ripped off over the years, the suspect list, it was very long.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Die Mob.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
The investigation went on for years. But in 2008, the police finally zeroed in on a suspect in Andrews' murder. It began with a routine search, since the investigators didn't have any real leads to go off of. They were kind of just like looking at his friends, his family members, his employees, everyone. And at one point, they searched the home of his chauffeur.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
His chauffeur's name was Carlos Trujillo. Now, this search was about a year after the murder, so around 2007. And when they searched, the investigators didn't find anything very interesting or notable. I mean, at least nothing that stuck out as notable at first. They did, however, find a credit card that was not in Carlos' name. It was for somebody else. Their name was Aminta Trujillo.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Doch sie fühlten sich immer noch, für irgendeinen Grund, als ob sie genug hatten. Sie waren nicht reich genug. Sie waren nicht genügend respektiert. Die Leute, die sie kannten, waren nicht genug beeindruckt. They also felt like they had to be in competition with one another. Sure, Andrew and Robert loved each other, but Andrew always wanted to be better than Robert.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Nun, zu Beginn hat das keine roten Flaggen gesetzt. Ich meine, diese Aminta-Frau, wer auch immer sie war, hatte den gleichen Nachnamen wie Carlos. Also vielleicht war es ein Familienmitglied, eine Schwester, wer weiß wirklich.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, es ist ein bisschen seltsam für ihn, eine Kreditkarte für jemand anderen zu haben, ja, aber vielleicht haben sie es ihm gelohnt, es hinterlassen, vielleicht ist es aus ihrer Karte gefallen, wer weiß. Whatever the story may be, not a huge red flag.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So the police basically wrote up their report saying that they hadn't found anything interesting, but they also did mention Amintas name in their report, saying that the credit card was found at Carlos' house and they didn't know who she was. Seemed like no big deal. Except then, more weeks and months went by. And still, they didn't have any breaks in the case.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
They still had no idea who murdered Andrew. And with literally no other leads to go off of, the police decided to start following up on some of the more out there theories, the long shot theories. And this ended up being a good idea, because Amita was, which let me just get this right, she was Carlos' cousins half sister. Carlos' Cousin was named Leonard, and Leonard was Aminta's half brother.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So anyway, the police brought Aminta in for questioning, and right off the bat, she was very nervous. She definitely seemed like she had something to hide. She didn't know what the interrogation was about yet, and the investigators hadn't said a word to her about Andrew's murder, but it was obvious that she was nervous, and she felt like she needed to get something off of her chest.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So the investigators asked Aminta if she knew why they wanted to talk to her. And at first she was sort of like, well, it's because we're involved with the cartels, right? Which, no, that's not right. So eventually the police let her know that they wanted to know who had killed Andrew. And it was almost like this huge weight was just lifted off her shoulders.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
She seemed way more relaxed, way more comfortable. And she told the police very kind of casually and calmly like, oh yeah, of course, my half-brother Leonard had killed Andrew. along with Carlos and another of Carlos' cousin, Jair.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Which was a bizarre revelation in and of itself, because whatever this family was apparently doing with the cartels, it was serious enough and violent enough that in Amintas mind, one single murder was like small time. Like, oh yeah, let me just tell you, let me just get it off my chest. And she was nervous about something completely unrelated.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
It's almost as though she thought she was getting off easy by admitting to this like one smaller, more minor crime, which I can only imagine what had her so nervous at the start of that interrogation in comparison. And I don't want to go near that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So as it turned out, this family had all been pretty heavily involved with Andrews scams and all of his, you know, scheming and pyramid scheming, whatever it was. Sie hatten seine Geld für ihn gebraucht.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Und als die Behörden Andrew beurteilt haben und dann, als er seinen Deal verabschiedet hat, hat das Carlos und die anderen Menschen, die involviert waren, wirklich nervös gemacht, als ob er auf sie fliegen würde und einige Namen teilen würde. Mehr konkret, waren sie froh, dass nicht nur Andrew sie nennen würde, sondern sie als Kollegen nennen würde und dann würden sie alle auch verhaftet werden.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And Robert always wanted to be better than Andrew. And this wasn't limited. This was at everything. Now, Andrew was the oldest, and it's safe to assume that he especially felt a lot of pressure to be the best, and, you know, to always really succeed and be the top brother. He didn't want his little brother to be showing him up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So, rather than risk going to jail for financial crimes, they decided to commit a much more serious crime, and they decided to murder Andrew. Carlos was charged with both murder and attempted murder, but he was acquitted of the murder charge. Apparently, the jury just did not think there was enough hard evidence to prove that Carlos was the one who did it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But the attempted murder charge, it didn't go so smoothly. The jury was deadlocked, unable to reach a decision. So the judge had to declare a mistrial on that count. In the end, Carlos decided to take a deal. He pleaded guilty to the attempted murder charge and he was sentenced to six years in prison minus time served. Once he served his time, he was deported back to his home country in Colombia.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now as for the cousin Leonard, he took a plea deal. He admitted to manslaughter and conspiracy to commit murder. He also agreed to testify against Carlos. So for all of that, he was sentenced to 20 years in prison. It's not entirely clear to me what happened with the other cousin. I've done a lot of research and I don't see any sign that he was ever taken to court or convicted of anything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So I don't know if that means that the police ended up deciding that maybe they didn't have a strong enough case against him. Or if maybe there was some other factor at play there. I don't know. But either way, now you have these two brothers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
who had always competed against each other their whole lives, but who really, arguably, had everything at their fingertips, but now they were both murdered by people who they knew and people who they trusted. Now going back to Robert and his wife Nancy, she is still in prison, but she has certainly tried to file every appeal that she can think of.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Her lawyers argued that her trial was unfair because, according to them, there were issues with how the evidence was handled and the jury didn't get the full picture. And in 2010, after five years in prison, Nancy managed to actually get her conviction overturned on an appeal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
The court ruled that there had been procedural errors in her original trial, and that gave her a chance at a retrial in 2011. During the retrial, the arguments were basically the same.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Nancy and her lawyers still said that she had killed Robert in self-defense, and the prosecution still said that she was just greedy, that she wanted to get out of this marriage while still getting her hands on Roberts' money. Once again, the jury found Nancy guilty of murder. So, she was sentenced to life in prison for a second time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And here's what her mom and her stepdad had to say after the sentencing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now get this. Apparently, for years after the murder, Nancy stayed in touch with Michael, the electrician, the handyman, the man that she had this affair with. Every single day, she would write to him. And these letters were multiple pages long. Sometimes five full pages of just like love letters to him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But the thing is, stuff didn't come as easily for him as it did for Robert. And sometimes it felt like Andrew could work twice as hard and for twice as long, just for Robert to then come in and do better than him, without even breaking a sweat over it. Robert war natürlich auch charmant.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Which, I can't imagine what was going on in prison that was worth writing five pages over, but she did it. Every single day. Eventually Michael started seeing somebody new though and then he got married, but that didn't stop these letters from coming through. It was almost like Nancy was obsessive and also, if I'm being honest, kind of a little out of touch with reality.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I've done quite a bit of research and I haven't seen anything about her being diagnosed with any kind of mental health condition.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But between what went on with her and Michael and the comment that her mother made in that interview about needing mental health treatment, I do wonder if through all of this maybe Nancy was dealing with some type of issues around, you know, delusion or some other problem. I don't know. Maybe I'm also reading too much into a few details. I don't know. It's hard to say.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Whatever was going on with Nancy, though. It is wild to think about murder striking the same family twice. For completely unrelated reasons. I mean, what an absolute tragedy. Now, the good news is, is that from what I can tell in my research, Robert's kids are okay. Apparently, the one surviving sibling, Jane, got custody of them after Andrew's murder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And ever since then, they have been living what I hope is a very quiet, safe and happy life, you know, away from all of this trauma and all of this violence. The Kissel Family's Murder Story is a brutal reminder that you never know what is happening behind closed doors, even in what can seem to be the most perfect lives. It's all Instagram filter, social media these days, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So you never know what truly is happening. And more than that, you never know what's real. You don't know if somebody has it made. You don't know if they're super happy in their marriage. You don't know what struggles somebody is facing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So even though it can be really easy for us to compare our lives to other people, whether it's a family member, a friend or a stranger on the internet, this is just a reminder that you don't really know the full picture. And chances are in a lot of the situations you are probably way better off than a lot of the people that you're idolizing. So just take what you see with a grain of salt.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
The wealth, the success, the insane houses. It didn't protect Andrew and Robert from the super dark realities of greed and betrayal. It doesn't really protect anybody ever, right? So I don't know. Food for thought, guys. That's me on my soapbox for my little outro there. Just don't compare yourself to other people because you never really know what the reality is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Alright guys, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode with me. I'm going to go watch that Lifetime movie because I know I've already seen it, but I want to watch it again now. I just want to watch it back. And who's the actress that's in it? Who is it? You know, I think I'm probably wrong, but I want to say it's the girl from Bridesmaids. Why can't I think of her name? The brunette one.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
What's her name in Bridesmaids? You know, the one who's like super prim and proper and who, oh, I can't think of her name. I think that's her. I think I'm wrong actually. No, I think it's the girl from The Craft, now that I think about Bis zum nächsten Mal. Just get a divorce. Be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults. And just be a good human. Alright. Alright. Bye guys.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, er war charismatisch, er war witzig, er wusste, wie man mit Leuten sprechen kann, wie man, was sagen sie, wie man die Beine grüßt oder wie man die Räder grüßt. Ich weiß nicht, was die Ausprägung ist, du weißt, was ich meine. Aber er wusste immer, wie man Leute aufruft und ihre guten Gräser und die Räder grüßt. Das ist, was ich meine. Ist das, was ich meine? Ich weiß nicht.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Aber er war einfach wirklich gut, mit Leuten zu sprechen. Er war gut beim Skieren. Er war einfach charmant und witzig und wirklich alles, was Andrew fühlte, als ob er es nicht hatte.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And he didn't have all of his ducks in a row like his little brother did. However, he did have one thing going for him. Like I mentioned before, he was older than Robert and by a couple of years. So this meant that while Robert was still in school, Andrew was able to get a head start in life. He was able to start his own business.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And maybe by doing that, he could make his fortune before Robert even had a chance to get going, get off the ground floor. And he did start a few businesses, in fact. Bis er seine echte Anmeldung gefunden hat, die Realität war. Jetzt, direkt aus dem Rücken, konnte er alle seine Familienwerte und Verbindungen nutzen, um direkt in den tiefen Ende zu fahren.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Er musste nicht seinen Weg von kleinen Verkaufsräumen auf große Verkaufsräume arbeiten. Ich meine, er begann praktisch direkt am Top, direkt. Er kaufte und verkaufte diese riesigen Gebäude auf dem Ostkosten. Ich meine, nennen Sie es Nepotismus, wenn Sie wollen, oder nur Familienverbindungen. Ich weiß nicht.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But he definitely wasn't starting with like fixer uppers or foreclosures or doing anything like that. Like he went right out of the gate strong. And on the surface, it seemed like he was really good at it and really enjoyed it. He was making money hand over fist to all appearances and just like crushing it. Now as for Robert, he wound up in investment banking.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
He also worked for top tier companies like Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, just kind of a lot of big heavy players in the space as well. And his job, it took him all over the world, visiting a bunch of different countries. So much so that at one point he and his wife Nancy ended up settling down in Hong Kong. And their place in Hong Kong was gorgeous. They lived there with their kids.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
This place had three pools. It was just like they had a staff. It was just like magnificent. They were living life in every single possible luxury that you could ever imagine. Now let's talk about his wife Nancy, okay? Nancy was a beautiful blonde bombshell and she really liked to party. She also really enjoyed the finer things in life, obviously.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
And I gotta say, this is kind of ironic, but personality-wise, Nancy was a lot like Robert's older brother Andrew. Almost kind of like she was the female version of him. For example, both Andrew and Nancy wanted to be professional artists. However, it didn't really work out for either one of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So because of that, that's when Andrew got into the real estate development, when he started, you know, going off and buying all the high rises and doing his thing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now for Nancy, professional artistry didn't work out for her either, but instead of harnessing that and going into her own business, she kind of found a new focus, which was living the high life, enjoying her husband's money, just kind of living all the luxuries that she possibly could. And when I say living the life of luxury, I truly, truly mean it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Her husband Robert was making over $3 million per year in bonuses alone. Nicht sogar seinen Salar, Leute. Nur in Bonussen. Also, sie hatten klar viel Geld, um zu spenden, um zu brennen, um Dinge zu kaufen. Also, ja, mit dem war wirklich nichts falsch, mit Nancy ein bisschen Shopping zu genießen, jedes Mal und dann. Ich meine, sie konnten es sicherlich verdienen. Und es war nicht nur das Geld.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Ich meine, jeder, der sie kannte, sogar ihre nahesten Freunde, akzeptierten, dass Robert und Nancy einfach eine fantastische, liebende und tolle Beziehung haben. Sie spielten viel Qualitätszeit zusammen. Sie gingen auf Dates auf dem Golfkurs. Sie gingen zusammen in den Gesundheitsclub. Sie gingen in diese entspannenden Roman-Baths zusammen.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Hey True Crime Besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist League. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly, with me, your true crime bestie, Annie Elise.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Sie sind wirklich als beste Freunde und als Mann und Frau verbunden.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So everything seemed perfect for them. However, there was one little problem, one tiny little hang-up that Nancy and Robert didn't really see eye to eye on. And that was the fact that he traveled a lot. He just was not home very often, and Nancy did not like that. And it wasn't just these business trips that were bothering her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
It was also these 16-hour days at the office, these endless meetings, the late nights, you know, all of the things. Which, it does suck to be in a relationship with someone who you hardly ever see. I'm sure, yes, the money is nice and I'm sure you can't bring in that type of money either if you're not working and hustling and, you know, having all these endless meetings and working long hours.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But at a certain point, you're making more than you're ever going to be able to spend anyway, right? So that big paycheck can sort of feel like it's just not worth it anymore. You're losing quality time with your wife, your kids, your family. What are the true priorities?
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now, even with all of those drawbacks, Nancy still stuck it out. And it sounds to me, which I'm just speculating, but I think it is a safe thing to guess here. But to me, it seems like maybe Nancy realized that with marriage, sometimes you have to take the good with the bad, right? You have to make some sacrifices and in exchange you get other things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Für sie, obwohl Robert nicht so viel da war, wie sie ihn wollte, war es wert, mit ihm zu sprechen, weil sie den lavischen Lebensstil lebten konnte. Sie konnte alles und alles kaufen, was sie wollte. Und im Allgemeinen war die Beziehung und die Dynamik immer noch ziemlich gut. Das war natürlich bis 2003, weil das war, als alles verändert wurde.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
In November of that year, Robert did something completely unexpected. He just vanished. This man, who usually spent every single minute, every waking hour at the office, just suddenly wasn't coming into work. He wasn't calling his family. He just was like a ghost. He wasn't answering his phone. He missed important meetings. He blew off his lunch appointments. I mean, literally, he just vanished.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Nancy could not make heads or tails of it. She told her closest friends that yes, they had had a terrible fight, but she said she didn't really want to dive into all of the details. She wanted to keep that a little bit private, which to be fair, Nancy had always been pretty private about their marriage. So it wasn't all that surprising that she wanted to keep things vague.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
But she also didn't think that this fight was something that was so severe that he would just disappear over it. She didn't know what to do. She didn't know if she was overreacting, if he would turn up or what was going on. So she decided not to even tell her kids the full truth of what was happening. In fact, she acted like everything was completely normal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
She kept the household running smoothly. She and her staff, her house staff, just kind of went about their usual routines. You know, school, playdates, clubs, sports, the works. And over time it almost kind of started to become and look like she almost couldn't care less that Robert had gone missing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Or at the very least, I mean, maybe she was just trying to keep up appearances and didn't want her friends knowing how worried she was. But it started to seem a little bit off.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
So Robert was off doing whatever he was doing, wherever he was, and Nancy was coping. And one of her favorite ways to deal with stress, which was no surprise to pretty much anyone, it was shopping. So Nancy, like she always did, grabbed her credit cards, grabbed her purse, and she hit the stores.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Jetzt werde ich sagen, dass nachdem Robert ein paar Tage weg war, dankbar war Nancy in Hongkong zur Polizei. Sie endete, ihn als missbraucht zu informieren, weil sie wusste, dass nach ein paar Tagen etwas nicht ganz richtig war. Also sofort wurde die Polizei eine Untersuchung eröffnet.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
They looked at Andrew's life, his business, his friends, I mean anyone who might have a reason to either threaten him or hurt him. And they also were really thinking about whether or not someone had kidnapped or killed Andrew, but also about whether he may have not just disappeared voluntarily. Maybe he was having an affair. Maybe he made a bad investment and he was running away from that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
Now, the case we're talking about today, I don't want to say, hmm, I don't want to say that it's a throwback one, but I've never talked about it on this channel, on my podcast, on my YouTube channel, I've never talked about it anywhere. And it's one that I remember when I was first getting into true crime, I was really curious about, because I
Serialously with Annie Elise
258: Rich Brothers, Affairs, and a Bloodbath | The Kissel Brothers
I mean, the possibilities felt endless. Which also meant that the list of suspects was endless. If he did not disappear voluntarily, it really could have been anybody involved. However, one person that they definitely did not suspect was his brother Andrew. Ich meine, sicher, ja, sie hatten ihre Tensionen in den letzten Jahren, all diese Brüder-Rivalität, die ich vorhin erwähnt habe.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And as time went on, Alyssa became very worried that eventually Andrew would escalate, that he might go from attacking her verbally to attacking her physically. Now, apparently this wasn't just some sort of idle fear for Alyssa. Andrew hadn't done anything to physically harm her yet, but she was still genuinely afraid of him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
There was something about him, about the way that he was talking, the way that he was acting. It told her that it was really only a matter of time before he became violent. Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, guys, as we step into 2025, what do you want your story to be? Every year it gives us 365 blank pages to fill in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So maybe this is the year for a plot twist, or maybe it's time to finally write a chapter that you've been putting off. Life's not about making resolutions that fade by February. It's about stepping up and becoming the author of your own life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And therapy can really be like your editorial partner, helping you revise old chapters, tackle challenges, and guide you to the meaningful story that you deserve. So whether you're looking to learn new coping skills, set boundaries, or just grow into the best version of yourself, therapy can be a game changer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
BetterHelp makes it easy with online therapy that's affordable and accessible to over 5 million people around the world. With more than 30,000 credentialed therapists, you can find the right match for you and even switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So write your story with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash AE to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
H-E-L-P dot com slash A-E. All right. Hey there. For all my parents out there, you know how challenging it can be to get your kids to eat healthy, especially when it comes to vegetables. Well, I recently tried Haya's kids vitamins and I was so impressed by how different they are from the usual, you know, gummy junky vitamins because a lot of typical children's vitamins are just like candy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
They are packed with sugar, chemicals and additives. But Haya is a game changer. It's sugar-free, gummy-free, and full of the good stuff that your kids need so that they can grow strong and healthy. Now, my kids absolutely love the taste, which is huge because, I'll be honest, they're very picky eaters. They always run for the dino nuggets.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So I was also really excited to see that Haya was created with the help of pediatricians and nutritional experts. It has 12 organic fruits and veggies, and it's loaded with 15 essential vitamins and minerals like vitamin D, B12, zinc, and folate. All of these nutrients support things like immunity, energy, mood, and even brain function.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So basically, it's the full body nourishment that every kid needs. Plus, Hya is non-GMO. It's vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, and everything else that you could want. I even love that it is tested for safety in GMP-compliant labs. Also, are you tired of trying to battle your kids getting them to eat their greens? Well, now Ohio has a new product, the Kids Daily Greens Plus Superfoods.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
It's a chocolate-flavored greens powder that packs 55-plus whole food ingredients for brain power, digestion, and development. Just scoop, shake, and sip. It is so easy, delicious, and it's actually fun for the kids. And we've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best-selling children's vitamins. Get 50% off your first order if you just go to hayahealth.com.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
That's H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H.com. And give your kids the nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. So now fast forward back to when Alyssa was murdered in broad daylight at work, just right in front of everyone. It was really easy to see why her mom Teresa was so sure that Andrew was the one behind it. She even told the police about a confrontation that she personally had had with him.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
because apparently one day before the murder, it was one of Andrew's custody days with Willow. He was watching her, and while Teresa was talking to Andrew, he was acting very angry and almost erratic in a way. It was scary enough that Teresa was worried that he was going to hurt Willow, his own daughter.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Now, during that conversation, Andrew also told Teresa that he would, quote, do anything to get custody of the child, and there was nothing Alyssa could do to stop him. Which, think on that statement, from just a day earlier, he would do anything, and now here Alyssa was dead. It seems pretty clear, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Now, it's also worth mentioning that Teresa wasn't the only one who was suspicious of Andrew. Pretty much everyone was coming forward to the police to say that they thought that he was incredibly shady, and that he probably did have something to do with the murder. I'm talking Alyssa's friends, members of her family, even at least one co-worker came forward with these concerns.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And it's not like the police were just going off of witness statements and nothing else. They were also digging into Alyssa's history. They were looking at different official records. They were looking at everything they possibly could. And all of that evidence, it told a pretty clear story that did not look good for Andrew.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Right before Alyssa's death, she and Andrew had been fighting over custody again. They were in and out of court all the time. It was very stressful, of course, but also incredibly expensive because lawyers taking time off work, I mean, you know, it ain't cheap. So along the way, Alyssa had even set up a GoFundMe to help cover some of her legal fees.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
I mean, it was definitely rough, to say the least. Now, in the GoFundMe's description, Alyssa wrote, Since she has been born, her father has taken me to court several times in an attempt to take her away from me. At the beginning of August, he took it upon himself to keep her from me.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Yes. So on October 2 2020, people were just starting out their day in Carlton, Texas. And you know how your morning routine goes, right? Everybody has their own specific routine. You either are doing your coffee, your tea, maybe you're getting a workout in whatever it is, you're just kind of going through the motions to get your day started.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
He would not open the door per the court order, and I went over a week without seeing my one-year-old baby girl when I'm her primary parent. It has also been made clear that this man will do whatever it takes to cut me out of the picture, and I'm worried that what is coming next will be worse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So let's unpack all of that just a little bit here. Let's explore it because it was clear that Andrew's behavior was getting more extreme, right? He wasn't just calling her names and sending her these nasty text messages. He was stalking Alyssa. And just like she had been afraid of, he was now escalating past verbal harassment. He was escalating into scarier, more violent behavior.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Or at least, that's what she thought. I mean, sometimes it can be hard to prove something like this, and it can be tempting to second guess yourself. You might start to wonder, is this person actually stalking me? Is this just a coincidence that they tend to pop up at the same places that I go to a lot? Am I overthinking it? Am I being paranoid?
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
I mean, if you do have a lot of hobbies in common, and if you live in similar neighborhoods, it is possible that you could just happen to bump into somebody over and over again without it being on purpose. But here's what we do know. Andrew was always showing up, wherever she was.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
One time, Alyssa went to a bar in downtown Dallas with some of her friends, and Dallas, as you know, is a huge city with a ton of bars, so the odds of running into somebody completely by chance? Kind of slim. But there he was, right there, at the exact same bar that Alyssa was at. It was creepy, to say the least. And things like that just kept happening.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Alyssa would go somewhere and then suddenly, poof, Andrew would just show up. And again, she might have started by trying to act like maybe it was a coincidence or maybe it was something that she didn't have to worry about too much. But as time went on, she started feeling paranoid. She was always looking over her shoulder.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
At one point, she even started texting her friends different things like, do you see anyone around you? Or lock the doors behind you? Now by this time, Alyssa was living with her new boyfriend Ben, and Andrew wasn't supposed to know a lot of the details about where she was staying, where her place was, nothing. She just didn't feel safe with him having access to that information.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
well at 9 a.m here everyone was going through their routines driving to work grabbing coffee heading to school the usual stuff now the people living at the green tree apartment complex were doing the exact same thing some of them were heading out while others like the employees were just clocking in as they walked through the door of the main building's front door it was a friday and like everybody else the workers were hoping for just a super easy day before the weekend kind of you know mentally clocking out already a little bit
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So imagine her shock when she went into one of those many custody hearings, and Andrew right there just told the judge her address. Right there in the courtroom, he just announced that he knew exactly where she lived. In Alyssa's mind, there was only one way that Andrew could have known that information.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
He must have been watching her, he must have been following her, and he must have seen her go home one evening and just stalked her. Then, just a month before her death, Alyssa was at her work when the police showed up and they asked to search her car. They claimed that they had gotten a tip from somebody named Frank Morrow who said Alyssa was selling drugs out of the trunk of her car.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Meanwhile, Alyssa was totally confused, but she let them search it anyway. I mean, she wasn't selling drugs, she had nothing to hide, so she figured they could just look around, confirm that she wasn't doing anything wrong, and they would clear everything up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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But to her shock, they ended up finding bags of weed, cocaine, and a gun with a serial number scratched off of it, all in the wheel well of her car. I mean, that is diabolical. That takes some very careful planning, right? Luckily, Alyssa wasn't arrested, but she could have been. However, I guess the police could tell that she was genuinely surprised and confused to see all of these things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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So maybe they figured, okay, this was a setup. This tip was intentional. They wanted to get her caught. She also kept swearing up and down that she had never seen those drugs before, that she had never seen that gun before, she had no idea how any of it got there, and she must have come across pretty genuine because they believed her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And I mean, in fairness, it would be very easy to tamper with the wheel well of somebody's car. Now, if you don't know your way around cars like me, it took me some investigating to figure out exactly what this was, but it's a place where the wheel attaches to the body of the car. It's on the outside, so you don't need a key, you don't need any way of opening the doors to get to it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
It's pretty accessible. So literally, anybody could walk up to a parked car on the street and just stick whatever they want in its wheel well. Not to mention, it would also be a weird place for Alyssa to be stashing a gun and drugs if she was actually selling them, because it's not a very secure location.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So Alyssa straight up told the officers she believed that Andrew might have been the one who planted these drugs and this gun inside her car. And it was a tip that they determined was worth looking into. So the police reviewed Andrew's record, his history, all of the things. But at the end of the day, there wasn't any hard evidence one way or another.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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No way to know if Andrew had planted all of this stuff, or even conversely, if Alyssa was guilty, or if maybe there was some sort of third person involved in all of this. So since they couldn't sort everything out, the police just sort of dropped the investigation right there. Now, I would imagine that had to be so incredibly frustrating for Alyssa, because again, Andrew was escalating.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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He was getting scarier. He was apparently trying to literally frame her for a crime that she didn't commit. And she couldn't do anything about it because she had no proof. Then there was another time when Holly and Andrew refused to hand Willow back to Alyssa. Alyssa and her mom Teresa drove over to their house and...
Serialously with Annie Elise
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When they arrived, they saw the fiancé Holly riding in a golf cart with Willow just sitting on her lap. So Alyssa stopped the car, her mom Teresa jumped out, grabbed Willow from Holly, and they just took off. Holly was clearly upset by all of this, though, and in fact, she immediately called the police. Yet, she told a version of the story that was pretty self-serving.
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I mean, she had kept Willow when she didn't have a legal right to see her, right? When it was Alyssa's day. But of course, that's not at all what she told the officers. In fact, she claimed that Alyssa's mom, Teresa, had assaulted her. She said, quote, she literally attacked me from behind.
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So the police went over to Andrew's house so that they could talk to Holly, but they didn't buy her version of events. Not at all. Holly showed them a scratch that was on her chest, which she said, you know, was from Teresa. She claimed it was from the assault, but it looked really minor and potentially even self-inflicted.
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So they took her statement, but they didn't buy what she was selling, and they just left. Again, there was no follow-up, though, no arrest. It was the second time when Alyssa felt like she was being framed for a crime that she didn't commit, and the police did absolutely nothing about it. Needless to say, everyone who knew Alyssa thought that Andrew was just bad news.
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Ben, her new boyfriend, even told the police that Andrew was, quote, overly obsessed with Alyssa. Which, in fact, that actually might be understating it. Because after Alyssa's murder, the police searched her car and they found a hidden GPS tracker inside of it. As in, someone was keeping tabs on her, seeing everywhere that she went.
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One of the employees drove into work, parked in her usual spot, and it felt like just another normal day. At least, at first it did. She was the assistant manager, a 24-year-old woman named Alyssa Burkett. But before Alyssa could even get out of her car, a man who was dressed in all black got out of the car that was parked next to her, walked right up to her driver's side window,
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When the officers talked to Ben about it, he said that he found that same kind of tracker on his car as well. Unfortunately, these trackers didn't have any serial numbers. They also didn't have any tags or any way for anyone to figure out who had bought them, who had put them there. But, I mean, come on. The writing's on the wall, right? It was pretty obvious who was responsible here. Andrew.
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But there was one problem in all of this, a huge one, an issue that could make it almost impossible to arrest or charge Andrew with the murder. The witnesses all saw the murderer, and they all saw that he was a black man, and Andrew was white. There's no way it could have been Andrew. It could have been possible that if it's hard to get a good look at somebody, you could make a mistake like that.
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But multiple witnesses, everybody who saw it, everyone agreed. Also, Alyssa was shot and stabbed in broad daylight. There wasn't any opportunity for obstructed vision or shadowing or darkness or anything like that. Everybody had very clear-cut vision and saw this person. Still, though, given Andrew's past history of being threatening and scary, they couldn't completely rule him out either.
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So the police decided that the best move was to gather more evidence, try to see if there was a way to make all of these pieces fit together. So they kept an eye on Andrew's house, which was about 30 miles from where Alyssa worked. And within just three hours of the murder, no time at all basically, they had some officers stationed on his block, just keeping an eye on everything.
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And those officers watched as Andrew, Holly, and Little Willow all piled into his white Ford F-150 and hit the road. Now, this really stood out for one particular reason, because Andrew didn't have a front license plate, and that's required by law in Texas. So the police did what the police are gonna do. They pulled him over.
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They were acting like they just wanted to talk to him about the license plate, but of course, they were also hoping to get a sense of his mental state. See if he was nervous, evasive, you know, a little bit spooked. Just sort of take his temperature on the entire situation. Well, Andrew... was almost eerily calm.
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There was no sign at all that he was even remotely stressed or worried about anything. He was also very cooperative, and each time the police asked him a question, he answered it very politely. There were no red flags. There was nothing to suggest that he even had the slightest idea that Alyssa was even dead, let alone that he might have been the one responsible for the murder.
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So clearly, there was nothing that came out of that traffic stop that was useful in terms of solving her murder. The police certainly couldn't arrest him right then and there. But while he was pulled over at the side of the road answering their questions, the officers did get some important news. They had just gotten a search warrant that was approved.
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Teams were now headed to Andrew's house to search it. they also had permission to go through his truck as well. So the police officer on duty confiscated the truck, right? They also told him that he couldn't go home because it was being searched. And they were basically kind of like, hey, guess you have nowhere to go, no way to get around it, good luck anyway, just figure it out.
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And I'd almost feel sorry for this guy, like he was being intentionally targeted unfairly, if it weren't for the fact that it was looking increasingly likely that Andrew was guilty. Because when the teams were going through Andrew's house... They hit the absolute jackpot. Namely, the officers found proof that Andrew had framed Alyssa for selling drugs out of her car.
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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. If you are brand new, checking out this podcast for the very first time, first and foremost, let me just say welcome. So happy to have you here. If you are a returning listener, I hope you are having a great week.
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It was exactly what she had suspected, and now they knew that she was right. See, they found an envelope with notes scratched and scribbled all over it. And the notes? Oh, nothing major, just casual references to Alyssa, her car, her license plate number, and, wait for it, drugs. And in the corner, there was also a name. Frank Morrow.
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took out a gun, and shot her through the window. Then this attacker just bolted, completely took off, and somehow Alyssa managed to still get out of her car through all of this, even though literally the left side of her face had almost been completely blown off. It was definitely a struggle for her to stay on her feet, as I'm sure you can imagine.
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which you'll remember that Frank Morrow was that person who called the police to drop that tip about her selling drugs out of the car. So one theory now was that Frank Morrow didn't exist, that someone, probably maybe Andrew, maybe a friend of his, whoever, was given instructions to make this call, to pretend to be this Frank character and leave this false tip.
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The police also found three different phones, one of which was a prepaid burner phone. And when they looked at the Google search history on one of these phones, they found a ton of awful, very incriminating search terms. One of the most damning being the best way to remove gunpowder residue from hands. Eh, I've never searched that.
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I don't know if you guys have, but doesn't really sound like a typical search, especially if coincidentally just hours earlier, the mother of your child was shot. Probably too big of a coincidence, right? Now, another phone had a script that was written in the Notes app.
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And it was almost word for word identical to what this Frank Morrow guy had said when he called the police to report Alyssa for selling drugs. Then, there was also the charger that they found. A charger that matched the specific kind of GPS tracker that they found on Alyssa's car. They also found a gun silencer that matched the gun that Alyssa was shot with.
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I mean, truly, all of the pieces were falling together now. It was like there was one giant red, flashing red arrow just pointing right at Andrew. When the police searched his truck, they also found a serrated kitchen knife, a flathead screwdriver, and a bunch of pieces of a boot. It looked like somebody had cut this boot up. I mean, and these pieces reeked of bleach.
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But the most damning find was absolutely jaw-dropping. Hey everyone, you guys know what it's like. Every year we have all of those new, big, huge New Year's resolutions. We wanna go to the gym more, we wanna eat healthier, maybe even read more books. But sticking to those goals, especially by the time February rolls around, it's always the hardest part, at least it is for me.
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And for me personally, I have been guilty of starting with like very high hopes only for things like, you know, cook at home more or save money to just fizzle out pretty much immediately. But imagine if some of those resolutions were automatic. Well, that's where Acorns comes in. This episode is sponsored by Acorns, and Acorns makes it super easy to start saving and investing automatically.
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Plus, you get a diversified portfolio that's tailored to your goals. So it's like having a financial partner, but without all the stress. So if you're ready to make your financial wellness a little more automatic this year, Head to acorns.com.ae or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. That's acorns.com.ae. Full disclaimer, paid non-client endorsement.
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Compensation provides incentive to work positively. Promote Acorns. Tier 1 compensation provided. Investing involves RISC, Acorns Advisor LLC, and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com.ae. The other thing that the police discovered when they searched Andrew's truck was, get this, a makeup brush and several bottles of Maybelline Fit Me Foundation.
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But she made her way to the front of the building. The whole time, she was doing everything that she could do to get attention. She wanted to get somebody to notice her, to come, to help her. She started banging on the windows of the building. I mean, literally, she was just right outside of the building where so many of her friends worked.
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Now, Maybelline Fit Me Foundation, for any men who are listening to this podcast, it is a brand, obviously, by Maybelline, and it's a liquid foundation. So you have a makeup brush and liquid foundation. And get this,
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it was a dark shade of brown which did not match andrew or holly's skin tone it was fair to think that maybe sure either one of them could have used it to darken their skin but there were also burned makeup wipes that were smeared with that same shade of foundation so let's connect the dots there for a minute because they found all of this evidence and also all of the witnesses reported seeing this murder and reporting that it was a black man
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but now the police were searching andrew's car and they found dark colored makeup makeup brushes and makeup wipes all inside of it it seemed pretty clear that andrew most likely killed alyssa while he was wearing blackface that he had put on this makeup all to disguise his race probably hoping that it would help throw the police off his trail and that he would get away with this which
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It almost did. And I've got to say, I haven't seen something like that in a case before, where somebody full-on tries to disguise their race. I've heard about lying about seeing a certain race during an attack, but never going to this length.
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But I also got to say, if you're going to go to these lengths and you're literally going to try and disguise your race, how are you such a moron that you're still leaving all of this evidence behind, right? Like you are so calculated and smart and thoughtful, yet you have Google history, you have three phones, you have the charger for the GPS tracker. It's like you're so sloppy.
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But like I will say, we love to see it. Now, they were finally beginning to put all these pieces of this puzzle together, right? But there was still one piece left, the getaway car. The witnesses said that the killer drove off in a black SUV, but Andrew was driving a white Ford F-150.
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Sure enough, when the investigators looked at the security cameras nearby to double-check and confirm that it was a black SUV, they did verify it. They were also able to find the car's make, model, and license plate number. They also were able to work out the escape route that the killer took to get away. So just one day after Alyssa's murder, they tracked this car down.
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She was seconds away from getting help, getting the help that she needed. But apparently, somebody else had something else in mind. Because the attacker came back. And this time, he took out a knife and he stabbed her, over and over and over again. Then, once Alyssa was now finally too hurt to do anything or to get away, he turned around, he climbed back into a black SUV, and he left.
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And wouldn't you know it, it was parked just about one mile away from Andrew's house. There was even a walking path that went straight from his house to this SUV. I mean, this idiot, this sloppy man literally parked his getaway car in a convenient spot for him, which how stupid can you be? Not that I'm complaining, but still, it truly does boggle my mind.
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Police even found security camera footage that showed somebody parking the car and then running away. This all happened about 30 minutes after Alyssa's murder. Now, as it turns out, the car was registered to a woman. But she told the police that she had sold the car way back on September 26th.
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She had met the buyer through Craigslist, and all she knew about him was that he was a man who drove a silver van. The woman also said that this man was white, that he stood about six feet tall, and that it was really difficult to get a good look at his face. She said he was wearing a baseball hat.
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Since this was still in the early days of COVID, when people were trying to be careful, he also was wearing a face mask as well. But he ended up paying $2,000 for this SUV. All in cash, of course, so it couldn't be tracked. And then after the woman gave him the title, he got in and drove off. It was simple as that.
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So to recap, a man fitting Andrew's description bought this SUV just one week before Alyssa's murder. And all of Andrew's neighbors also said that they noticed this exact same black SUV parking in their neighborhood for the past week. Which, again, it just is hilarious to me that he went to such lengths to cover his trail when he was buying the car to...
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covering his race, and then he just parked the car, literally right there at his house, for everybody to see. So with all of this information, the police got a warrant to search the black SUV. And inside of it, they discovered a fake beard that had specks of brown foundation and blood on it. There was also blood spattered all over the interior. I mean, it was just everywhere.
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So they sent the beard and blood off for DNA testing, and when it came back, the beard showed that it was Andrew's DNA, and the blood was Alyssa's. Now, not that I think that the police needed a ton of additional evidence at this point, because everything they already had was telling, you know, a very compelling story already, but this sort of just sealed the deal.
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It was very clear to everyone that Andrew was the killer. It was also pretty clear what the motive was, the motive that I touched on already once before. He wanted custody of Willow. He wanted her all to himself. And just a few days before the shooting and the stabbing on September 30th, Alyssa had won primary custody of Willow, which is apparently something that Andrew just could not accept.
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So instead, he killed her. He murdered the mother of his child just because he decided that what he wanted out of his life and what she wanted were as incompatible, that he deserved to have Willow 100% of the time, that his wants mattered more than her life. So the next step was to arrest Andrew, and the good news is that the police didn't have to look very long or very hard to find him.
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He actually turned himself in on October 5th. He just walked right into the station with his fiancée Holly at his side, and she even agreed to do an interrogation while she was there. So in this interrogation, Holly told the police that Andrew had been with her on the morning that Alyssa died. That was his alibi.
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She claimed that they were at home, they were looking after Willow, and Andrew never even left her side. On the surface, it sounded like a solid alibi. But the evidence that the police had found didn't exactly back up her story.
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Now, even though Alyssa was seriously injured, she was still clinging to life somehow. Barely, but somehow miraculously was. Her breathing was shallow, it was difficult, and it was very clear that she was in critical condition. So as soon as her co-worker saw what was happening, they of course ran over and they rushed to help her.
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I find it hard to believe. The police were worried that Andrew was a flight risk. They thought that he might even flee the country, and I'm not sure exactly why they thought that, given that he had voluntarily surrendered. But for whatever reason, they believed that, and they decided to set his bail at a whopping $1 million. Now that's shocking, of course.
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But even more shocking, someone ended up coming through with this money. Just after two weeks, he got out of jail on bond.
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Well, the police weren't only worried about Andrew skipping town. They were also worried about Willow's safety. They thought that he might try to hurt his daughter if he was looking down, you know, the long hallway of life in prison or worse. And again, I'm not sure exactly what these concerns were based on. It sounds to me like Andrew did love Willow.
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I mean, his whole motive for the murder was that he wanted full custody, but we've also seen in many situations, unfortunately, when somebody's
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back feels like they're being pressed against a wall that any rational thinking tends to go out the window and maybe there was something going on that i'm not aware of but the point is the police had some serious concerns so they decided to arrest andrew another time this time on new charges cyber stalking resulting in death so with those new charges andrew had to stay in jail with no chance of release until his trial
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At first, Andrew planned to plead not guilty to everything. He was arguing that he didn't kill Alyssa, and in fact, he didn't even have any motive to hurt her. Weird argument, I know, especially in light of the fact that Alyssa got primary custody on September 30th, but Andrew and his lawyers tried to argue that this was only part of the story. It wasn't the whole truth.
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According to them, Andrew and Alyssa didn't even have a formal legally binding custody hearing on September 30th. It was just a simple phone call in which Alyssa and Andrew worked everything out together amicably. They agreed that Alyssa would be the primary caretaker. They also agreed that Alyssa's mother, Teresa, would also help out with some of the child care.
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So to hear Andrew tell it, the police had just completely misunderstood everything. They thought that the custody agreements were these contentious, heated things, but in reality, they weren't. There was no cause for Andrew to even be upset, no less murdering somebody over it. And that was Andrew's stance for about the next year and a half. He was innocent.
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But then, in June of 2022, Andrew shocked everybody by accepting a plea deal. And with that, he was going to also offer a full confession. And in this confession, he admitted to everything. That he had bought the black SUV, that he put on that dark makeup, that he shot and stabbed Alyssa to death. I mean, all of it. But according to Andrew, none of it was his idea.
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Some tried their best to provide first aid, while one of them called 911.
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He wasn't the mastermind behind this murder, not even close. Everything had been planned. Everything had been meticulously worked out by his accomplice. This is for all my girlies out there. I feel like I need to share my new secret life hack with you and a way to really kick off 2025 with a resolution that you'll actually stick to. And that is ditching uncomfortable bras for good.
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If you're like me and you get tired of ripping off your bra the second you get home, you need to try Honeylove. I have been literally hearing about Honeylove for years, and I always had my staple nude bra. I'm not going to say where it's from, but I'm sure you can guess, Cough Cough VS, and it was painful, like uncomfortable.
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I don't know why I never got a new one, but then I tried Honeylove, and I'm not kidding, guys. It's the only thing I will wear now. Their wireless bras combine comfort, support, and style, and they combine it so well that you might even forget that you're wearing a bra altogether. So like I said, I've tried them.
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I am never going back and I never ever at the end of the day feel like I need to get this bra off of me immediately. The crossover bra is my go-to. It's supportive, it's smooth, and there is no underwires digging in.
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Honeylove bras fit all shapes and sizes too and their back smoothing design helps eliminate like those bulges that stick out where you can, you know, like see them in your t-shirt sometimes. Plus they even have shapewear and leggings that are so comfy and so supportive. Seriously, once you try them guys, I'm telling you, you will not go back.
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So treat yourself to the most comfortable bra on earth and save 20% off site wide at honeylove.com slash AE. That's honeylove.com slash AE for 20% off. After your purchase, let them know I sent you because that's going to help the podcast. And I want to know how many of you guys are trying Honeylove and loving it like I am. So start the new year with confidence. Thanks to Honeylove.
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Again, that's honeylove.com slash AE for 20% off. In his confession, Andrew described one person as being the absolute mastermind behind this entire murder plot against Alyssa. And surprise, surprise, you probably guessed it, that someone was none other than Holly, his newish girlfriend turned fiance, lunatic partner in all of this.
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Now remember earlier when I said that Holly and Alyssa got along great, that they were committed to having a positive co-parenting relationship? Well, that's how it looked from the outside. It sounds like the only thing that these two women were ever on the same page with was that they didn't want to air out their dirty laundry. Because in truth, they hated each other.
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But they did a good enough job of playing nice and pretending to get along that almost nobody knew the real story. And get this. Holly actually had Alyssa saved in her phone under the name Cunt Baby Mama. I mean, definitely not the kind of nickname that you would expect of somebody that you were on good terms with, right?
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And whenever Holly would talk to Andrew about Alyssa in their text message exchanges, she wasn't a whole lot nicer. She was always calling Alyssa a bitch, saying she was fat, that she was ugly, that she was a terrible mom. I mean, just these really low blow nasty things.
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And honestly, I think anyone in general who attacks somebody over their appearances, no less a woman attacking another woman over their appearances, it tells you something about them too, right? I mean, talk about zero class. Now, apparently, Holly was also one of those people who just could not be single. She always had to have a partner, always have a boyfriend, always have a guy by her side.
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And as the police started combing through the scene, that's when they found a knife sheath, but there was no gun and there was no actual knife. But it looked as if the murderer had left the sheath behind. Very Brian Koberger-esque, right? Allegedly, allegedly. Now, since there wasn't much hard evidence here, the investigators really had to rely on the witness statements.
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If she broke up with someone, she'd instantly be on the hunt, literally just looking for somebody new. And whenever she was with someone, the rumor went that she was always very manipulative, that she was very good at getting her partners to do exactly what she wanted. And ultimately, what she wanted in the grand scheme of things was a house, a husband, a child, and a white picket fence.
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She basically wanted it all. So then Andrew came into the picture, and when Holly started dating him, she got a lot of those things that she had been looking for. The boyfriend who proposed, who was about to become the husband, the nice house. He even had a child already in all of this. Willow. But the problem was, Holly didn't want to share. She didn't want to be the stepmother.
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She didn't want Willow part of the time. She wanted to be Willow's only mom, her only mother figure. She wanted Alyssa out of the picture. Now, you'll remember that for years after their breakup, Alyssa and Andrew were pretty much on good terms. I mean, so far as custody was concerned anyway. They had worked out terms that were good for both of them, I mean, they were both cooperative.
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In fact, Andrew never even started fighting hard for full custody, or going all in on harassing Alyssa until after he had gotten together with Holly. And from the sounds of things, that's because Holly was the one pushing him and pressuring him to go for full custody. She was trying to drive a wedge between him and his ex, and to get Alyssa just out of the picture entirely.
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Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this at all in order to give Andrew a pass. I mean, not at all. He was a grown-ass man. He could have definitely told Holly no at any point in time. He definitely is at fault for listening to her and letting her get away with all of this crap that she had been pulling. But also, she was just horrible.
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She even did things like talk Andrew into hiring a private investigator to tail Alyssa. Apparently, she had convinced him that this investigator would find some sort of smoking gun and then they would be awarded full custody. That they would catch Alyssa doing something bad and then Andrew and Holly could use that information to get Willow away from her.
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But surprise, surprise, that plan went absolutely nowhere. Because the private investigator did not find a single thing. Alyssa wasn't involved in anything shady. And the fact that Holly was so convinced that she had to have some sort of deep, dark secret in all of this? I mean, if you're asking me, it was probably projection.
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I think Holly's the one who had, like, some deep-seated, rooted issues here. So Holly's next big idea was to plant the drugs in Alyssa's car. And she was actually the one who physically did it. She got her hands on all of these substances, this gun, the scraped off serial number, everything, and she put them in Alyssa's car all by herself.
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Then, after she was done, she snapped a photo of Alyssa's car and her license plate and sent it to Andrew, making sure that he had all of the, quote, you know, evidence to back up this fake tip that this fictitious Frank Morrow person was going to call in. Holly was also the one who came up with that entire plan when they kept Willow longer than they should have.
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Then she lied and said that Alyssa's mom, Teresa, had assaulted her. She also made a false report against Alyssa that she was driving dangerously. But again, it was all a lie. I mean, everything was just complete BS. And none of those tactics worked. She just could not get Alyssa in trouble, not the way that she wanted to. She couldn't intimidate her or drive her off.
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Now, this was bad news because for the most part, each witness had only seen small bits and pieces of what had actually happened. Nobody could tell the full story in detail. So instead, everything was just kind of chaotic and horrifying.
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But even after she failed and failed and failed again, Holly was not willing to back off.
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So you might be thinking at this point, okay, Holly had to be some kind of master manipulator, right? I mean, how do you convince a good man to commit a murder? What kind of expert mind games was she playing in all of this? Well, the answer is that her quote unquote manipulations weren't even that masterful. Literally, she told Andrew that he had to kill Alyssa to prove that he was a man.
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That was it. That's all she said. It was like she was this 12-year-old girl picking on somebody on the playground, saying, you have to do this if you want to prove that you're a man. But for whatever reason, it worked. She was like, you'll do what I do if you want to prove that you deserve me. And Andrew went along with it.
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In one text message to Andrew, Holly wrote, I don't want anyone who is a pussy to some lowlife or a pushover. I want a man who protects his woman and child before anyone else and doesn't give two Fs otherwise. In another text, she said, Your baby mama owns you. You choose to be, I don't know, for a lack of a better term, submissive to her. I don't have, want, or need any bullshit from anyone.
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So the big theme that I'm taking away from all of this is that Holly was a nightmare. And also Andrew was a nightmare too, because again, he's the one who agreed to murder his ex all because Holly was like trolling him into doing it. And it makes me wonder, would he have done something like this if Holly was never even in the picture? Was he just looking for an excuse to kill someone?
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Or was he actually that weak-willed that he would literally just go along with about anything that anybody said to him or suggested to him? It's beyond me. I mean, who jumps from point A to Z so fast for really no reason at all but your fiancé who sucks, by the way, trying to force your hand into doing it? Because according to Andrew, the entire plan was all Holly's brainchild.
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I mean, every twisted detail. She was the one who suggested buying that black SUV, the one who suggested putting together a race disguise, grabbing makeup to alter his appearance, ultimately ambushing Alyssa at her work. It was all Holly.
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The police were able to determine and figure out, though, that a medium-built black man had stepped out of this black SUV and had shot Alyssa, stabbed her, and then took off. The other thing that everybody agreed on was the entire attack happened very, very fast. It was way too fast for anybody to even make sense of what was going on or to get Alyssa help until it was unfortunately far too late.
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About a month before the murder, Holly and Andrew went to a sporting goods store, and that's where they bought the all-black outfit that Andrew wore when he killed Alyssa. Then, Holly bought the dark foundation at a local drugstore. They went together when they bought the bullets and the knife that would ultimately kill Alyssa, so they didn't do everything separately.
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And shortly before the day of the murder, Holly went off on a vacation to Mexico. But that didn't stop her at all from micromanaging every single detail from far away. She sent Andrew a text saying, I hope you handle it. I'm not coming home to bullshit. It would be a whole different conversation if I felt like you're a ride or die. If not, then I don't know.
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And then, once he did it, once Alyssa was dead, she wanted to know everything, every sordid detail, every gory detail. According to Andrew, she even asked him to describe the crime in graphic detail to her. And get this, not just describe it as if that's not bad enough, describe it while they were having sex. What a sick freak, right? Like, what a disgusting, sick psychopath.
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Now, Holly gave her first interview to the police back in October of 2020, that same day when Andrew was arrested. And that day, she acted like she had no clue what was going on, like she was just this innocent bystander in all of this. But then, after that interrogation, guess what she Googled? Because the Google will get you every single time.
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She Googled, can I be brought to court if I have a psychiatrist note? Also, can I be subpoenaed to jail if I have a mental issue? So again, it really sounds to me like she was just looking for an excuse, looking for a way out, a way to avoid responsibility for what we know she was in fact involved in.
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So in May of 2023, after Andrew pled guilty and shared all of this information with the police, he ended up being sentenced to 43 years in prison. But of course, now they had to bring Holly to justice, which was easier said than done, because by the time Andrew got around to spilling the beans and pointing the finger at her, Holly had left the state.
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See, way back in 2020, when Andrew was first arrested, Holly had been staying with his mom. The two of them became very, very close. Andrew's mom believed that her son was innocent in all of this, and Holly played along, acting like she thought he was innocent as well, so they really supported each other and leaned on one another.
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And when the news came out that Andrew was being released on bond, his mother and Holly were both thrilled to go back to, you know, some semblance of a normal life. Except then, Andrew came home. Only for Holly to just straight up disappear. She skipped town. She never talked to either Andrew or his mom ever again. Which...
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Let's be real, it's pretty bizarre behavior for somebody who claimed to be so devoted to Andrew and to Willow, right? He had to commit this murder to prove that he was man enough for her, that he was a quote, ride or die, and then she took off the second he was back? It turns out that Holly had fled back to Michigan, which is where she was originally from.
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There, she of course wasted no time at all in starting all over, starting fresh. New condo, new boyfriend, new job. She basically hit the reset button on her entire life. And honestly, it was like she couldn't pack up and move on fast enough. She was also living basically like this woman of mystery. She didn't ever mention her past. Nothing about Andrew, nothing about Alyssa or Willow. None of it.
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she didn't even tell her new boyfriend anything about what her life had been like in texas which is pretty wild i mean i wonder if maybe she told him a cover story or if he just never thought to ask about it i don't know but either way holly couldn't stay on the run forever and in june of 2023 while she was enjoying a vacation in the dominican republic probably thinking that she was getting away with all of it she wasn't because right when she got back to the us and landed the miami international airport she got the surprise of her life
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Now, there wasn't a whole lot to go off of, obviously. But right off the bat, the investigators were putting together an early theory. Namely, that this entire attack and murder was personal. They figured that Alyssa knew the man who had killed her. The idea was that this couldn't be some sort of random act of violence, because stabbing is so personal.
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Holly's trial was in April of 2024, and during it, she pled not guilty to all charges, which, of course. The trial itself lasted for seven days, and then the jury only took 90 minutes to reach a verdict. They found Holly guilty on all counts. She was sentenced to two full life sentences with no chance of parole.
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Which, I gotta say, that's pretty crazy that she was given a longer sentence than Andrew. I would imagine it had something to do with his plea deal, but if you'll remember, he only got 43 years in prison. She got two full life sentences with no parole. Is that because she was the mastermind, or is it because she made them all go through with the trial and didn't take a plea deal? I don't know.
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Sadly, even though Alyssa had justice, that won't ever give her family peace. Everyone who knew her misses her every single day, still. Her mother, Teresa, is now raising Willow. And she and other relatives say that Willow is a lot like Alyssa in a lot of different ways. She's a fun-loving girl, a free spirit, and incredibly strong. They do what they can to keep Alyssa's memory alive.
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They want to be strong. They want to be there for Willow now that Alyssa can't be there at all.
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Who's that for? For your mommy? Yeah. It's again one of those cases that's just so incredibly heartbreaking but also so senseless because a lot of times when we talk about a situation like this where a spouse or former spouse kills the other parent so that they can have full custody of the child, even though it's incredibly selfish,
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There seems to be that underlying motive that it's for the child. It's because they want full custody. It's because they love their child that, you know, selfishly, that's the reason. But that's not even the reason in this case.
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In this case, it seems like Andrew killed Alyssa not for Willow, not because he wanted full custody, but because of his batshit crazy fiancee, Holly, because she wanted full custody.
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So when you think about that and you step back, as a parent in his position, how much could you really love your daughter if you're willing to murder her own mother, not even for her because you want her, but for your fiancé? It feels very detached and impersonal to me. That's the best word I can use to describe it.
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It's just like, usually you would say, okay, they think it's the best decision because they want to be with their kid 100% of the time. That's not even the case here. There's no justifying it, not that there ever is, but like, there's not even an explanation for it because he did this all for Holly.
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And now, poor Willow, who at one point in time before Holly entered the scene, was living a happy life. She had two parents, they split custody of her, they co-parented well, they got along. And now, because of this monster who inserted herself into their lives, she doesn't have her mom, she also doesn't have her father, and she has to grow up knowing what really happened here. It's horrible.
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The attacker during a stabbing needs to be incredibly close in proximity to their victim, looking them in the eyes oftentimes, you know, right up, right up close and personal. So to pull something like that off... There usually needs to be a strong sense of rage or emotion. It's not something that you usually will do with a complete stranger, especially if it's something premeditated.
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It is horrible. So it's not really applicable in this situation. But you know that what I always say, I always say, just get a divorce, which I know that doesn't apply here because they had split already anyway. But what I will just say is, think of the children. Maybe that's the new tagline. Think of the children.
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Think of what your actions will do to your child and the ripple effect that it'll have on them. Even if you're not going to be selfless enough to think of
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the in-laws the parents the friends the co-workers think about your child and think about what your actions will do to them and further what your actions will do to them if you end up getting caught for that too like it's just it's so selfish and it's very disheartening so I'm happy that Willow is with Alyssa's side of the family and that they are raising her and loving her and
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getting her you know to be this strong independent woman that they want her to be but it's still it's just it's so senseless thank you guys so much for tuning in today and hearing Alyssa's story again I think it serves as a reminder too that you can't trust everyone and if you have kids and you start dating somebody new guard yourself and your child with your life because you never know who somebody really is on the other side of things truly you don't
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Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I'll be back on the mic with you first thing Thursday morning with an all new headline highlights where we are going through everything happening in the true crime world this week. New cases, updates in cases, everything. So make sure if you're not following the podcast yet, you take a quick second. It's totally free. Follow the podcast.
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That way you will not miss any of those episodes. And if you have an extra 30 seconds and you're enjoying this podcast, please leave a rating and review over on Spotify or Apple. Let me know what you're liking about the podcast. If there's any case recommendations or requests that you have, it's the best way for me to see feedback from you guys in that section.
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So if you have an extra 30 seconds, please go do that. If not, no worries. All right, guys. Thanks again for tuning in. And until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults. Stay safe. Get a divorce. And think of your children. All right. Bye.
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Generally, there will be a different weapon of choice unless, again, there is just like that deep-seated, rooted rage to where you want to use a knife.
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Another thing, which I've mentioned this in previous episodes and when we've talked about cases that have involved stabbing, is when somebody is stabbed multiple times, not only does that usually have the markings of a personal attack, but generally it also requires an incredible amount of strength, which is oftentimes why it's classified as a crime of passion in some cases.
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You know what today is all about, right? Because on Mondays, we do the case deep dives. And boy, oh boy, do I have a case for you today. Because It's one where it's like there is such detailed deception and plotting, but also a lot of crazy twists throughout.
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Because stabbing motions... if say somebody is stabbed five times, it's really 10 motions because it's the up and down of it all. And if you just even were to do that with a pillow at home, which I'm not advising that you do, but I'm just giving an example, it takes an incredible amount of strength to go up and down several times.
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So alas to say that a lot of the times when there is a stabbing case in particular and a stabbing homicide, they look closer to home because it usually is, you know, has some sort of crime of passion weaved in or personal element to it. And the police in this situation with this specific case got some confirmation of that theory pretty early on.
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It happened when Alyssa's mom, Teresa, got the kind of phone call that no parent ever wants to receive. And the person who called her didn't even tell her everything. Basically, her phone rang and somebody told her she needed to get to the Green Tree apartment complex immediately because her daughter had been very badly hurt. That's what they said, that Alyssa was hurt. Nothing else.
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They definitely didn't say that she was dead. But still, Teresa, of course, headed over there in a rush. She wanted to see her daughter. She was also so hopeful that Alyssa would be okay, that she wasn't hurt that badly. And she didn't even consider the possibility that Alyssa might actually be dead, because that was way too terrible to even imagine.
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So, as you can imagine, she was not at all prepared for the scene that she drove up to. A full-on murder scene, with her daughter already passed away. I personally cannot even imagine how Teresa was able to function after seeing something like that. However, in some kind of miracle, she was still speaking clearly. She still had her composure about her.
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She was even able to talk to the police and give them some very important key information. Specifically, Teresa told the investigators that she agreed with their theory and their conclusions. She agreed this was personal. It wasn't random. And in fact, she thought that she already knew exactly who had done this to Alyssa. Her ex-boyfriend, Andrew Beard.
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Alyssa and Andrew had met for the first time about two years earlier. They first connected on a dating app back when she was just 22 years old, and he was a little bit older. He was in his early 30s or so. And that age gap might sound like some sort of, you know, red flag to some people, but the good news is that Alyssa wasn't really looking for anything too serious.
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She was just kind of dating, dating to date, and see if anything really sparked her interest. Keep in mind, she was still in college, so she really just wanted to keep things fun and keep it casual.
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andrew though he was in a totally different place in his life he had a solid job at a tool company he owned a nice house heck he even owned a freaking plane so it kind of made you wonder what was this guy doing with this young college girl i mean sure age doesn't mean everything and sometimes you hit it off with somebody who's much younger in a different place in life but she was still in college while he seemed very established very successful
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Like to where as I was researching it and going through, I was like my jaw was literally on the floor at three separate parts because I swear I thought I knew where it was going. I thought I knew what happened, who was responsible, everything. And then it was like, you know, one turn after another. So we have got a lot to get into today.
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But somehow the magic must have worked because they ended up together anyway. Now their relationship wasn't exactly this grand love story. It was more of this like chill, no strings attached, casual kind of dating, that kind of thing. You know, a few dates here and there, maybe a couple of hookups along the way, but really no plans to take it any further.
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That is until life threw them a massive curveball because Alyssa found out that she was pregnant. So suddenly their casual relationship, it was about to get a lot more complicated. And to put it simply, Alyssa began freaking out. This was not what she wanted at this point in her life. It wasn't like anything that she had been wanting or even looking for. It was a complete surprise.
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But then she found out that she was having a baby girl. And it was almost like in that moment, something clicked into place, both emotionally and mentally. Instead of being afraid and upset about this pregnancy, now she was getting really excited. She was actually looking forward to being a mom.
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And she knew that she was strong and driven, the sort of person who didn't let anything stand in her way or set her back. So even though this was something that she hadn't planned at all, something that she might have never even chosen for herself, she decided to look at this pregnancy and this baby coming as a blessing and a new chapter in her life.
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So on July 23rd, 2019, Alyssa welcomed her beautiful baby daughter Willow Ann into the world. By then, she and Andrew had already gone their separate ways, but they did agree that they were going to split custody so that they could co-parent. Alyssa had primary custody and then Andrew spent a few days a week with the baby as well.
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Now Alyssa was all about being a great mom and really setting a good example for Willow. So she wanted to make sure that she worked incredibly hard to give the life that she wanted to give to her daughter. She dreamed of becoming a lawyer herself, so she ended up going back to school part-time to do that. She also started working at the Green Tree apartment complex.
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On top of all of that, she also began dating a new guy named Ben Irwin. He was incredibly loving, supportive, and truly just exactly what Alyssa needed as she was now juggling everything that was going on in her life, between classes, work, parenting, all of the different things. But everything was going well. Things between the two of them, it was a healthy balance. They were happy.
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Alyssa's dreams were falling into place in this moment. So things were going really smoothly for a while for Alyssa. That is until they weren't. See, in April of 2020, Andrew, her ex, started seriously dating somebody named Holly Elkins. Their relationship moved very, very fast.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
I mean, they spent their first weekend together in late April, and they were engaged just a month later, which, talk about a whirlwind, right? Again, I get it. Love is love, but that feels very, very fast. Very Chloe and Lamar, if you get the reference.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And I know sometimes when people get serious that quickly, it can sometimes cause a red flag or a warning sign, like, is there some sort of element of love bombing? Is there some sort of manipulation? But all in all, the relationship seemed good. Andrew and Holly seemed to be in a good place.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
But again, just as a reminder for those of you who are new here, the way I break down these cases, I just want to deliver these cases in a format as if I'm talking to, you know, my best friend over a cocktail or over a coffee and in a more relatable, digestible sort of way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Like maybe they were the exception to that kind of rule or mentality that you hear about when relationships move too fast. Now the good news in all of this also is that to all appearances, Holly and Alyssa got along very well. And that was incredibly important because Alyssa and Andrew were still sharing custody of their daughter. So Holly was now about to of course become the new stepmom.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
She was going to be very involved in Willow's life. It also meant that she was going to be very involved in Alyssa's life. So the fact that the two of them hit it off and things were going great between them and they all had a healthy dynamic, that was incredibly important and really good.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
Now Holly was all about this whole co-parenting and healthy dynamic because one time she even texted Alyssa and said, "...I look forward to having a super healthy relationship with you and Ben." Alyssa replied, So it sounds promising, right? I mean, these co-parenting situations usually can get pretty complicated, and maybe not usually, but often.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
especially when new partners start getting involved. It's almost like having, you know, too many chefs in the kitchen. Things can get a little bit messy and very quickly fast. Everybody has their own opinions on things. But from the sounds of things going by these text messages, Holly and Alyssa were committed to making it work. But as we know, unfortunately, good intentions aren't always enough.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And over time, things started to unravel a little bit. Andrew began feeling like, since he had a stable job and a house, that he could offer Willow a more secure life. So now he wanted primary custody. Now obviously that created a lot of tension between him and Alyssa. They just could not see eye to eye and they were constantly arguing about the custody arrangements.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
And that's very unfortunate because that kind of tension and ongoing fighting definitely is never good for the child involved. And it's interesting because even though Alyssa and Andrew were arguing about what was best for Willow, she was the one being torn apart in the middle in all of this. That's who the arguments were bad for, for Willow.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So eventually they realized that they needed to put Willow first. So they agreed to work out a compromise, even if it wasn't exactly what either one of them wanted. It was going to be better than the back and forth. And what's that expression with a compromise? If you make a healthy compromise and a good compromise, neither party leaves happy because you both give enough.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
But anyway, the resolution was that they were going to split custody of Willow 50-50. It wasn't perfect by any means, but at least it was a step forward in the right direction. So thankfully, things started to settle down once they reached that agreement. It was almost like a weight had been lifted, and for the first time in a while, there was a bit of peace between everybody.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
So we try to kind of keep out, you know, the sterile aspect of it that sometimes you can see, you know, on documentaries and things like that and really just kind of talk about it as though I'm talking about this case with a friend. So Again, let's, you know, today's case is wild, so I'm going to shut up now, okay? And let's just jump right in.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
But of course, you're listening to this episode, so you know that peace did not last long. Before too long, Andrew was back to thinking that he deserved full custody of Willow. And instead of working it out like an adult, you know, having a calm conversation, he became pretty mean.
Serialously with Annie Elise
229: Twisted Obsession: How a Love Triangle Turned Deadly | The Murder of Alyssa Burkett
In fact, he started verbally harassing Alyssa, always making these, like, little cutting comments about her, about her choices, really trying to tear her down and, quite honestly, just make her feel like shit. Now, verbal harassment on its own is never okay, but couple that with something else, it can get incredibly dangerous.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, based on the news that Belle had a tumor on her heart, Belle claimed that chemotherapy was inevitable. She was going to have to have it no matter what. It was the only option she really had at that point. So to prepare for it, she started cutting her hair. She was bracing herself for the day that it was all going to fall out and she was going to have to shave her head.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And her posts became more frequent and more dramatic, just detailing every single setback and this new diagnosis. Yet, despite this supposed rapid decline... Belle made another life change in July of 2009. Once again, she packed up and she relocated, this time to Melbourne, a city that is known for its very vibrant art scene, its very diverse culture, and just a complete new place for her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It was another fresh start for Belle and another chance to, quite honestly, reinvent herself. So this tough, outspoken skater girl that was dark hair, tattoos, piercings, that girl just sort of started to fade away. now making room for a different version of herself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Instead of the girl who just announced that she was shaving her head for chemotherapy, she arrived now in Melbourne with this long blonde hair, fully intact. She kind of went into this more preppy, very polished, even boho-esque kind of image.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
than other podcasts do or other documentaries do or shows to where it really feels digestible and like you're talking with a friend. So if this is your first time listening to an episode and you enjoy it by the end of this, please follow the podcast so that you don't miss future episodes. And thank you for joining in any event and listening to today's episode.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
just a complete stark difference from who she was before and who she portrayed herself to be and there belle also settled into a new life she socialized she built new relationships and she embraced this next chapter of her life and it was during this period that she also entered a new relationship with a young guy named nate corbett who also soon became the father of her child because yes despite all the dire health struggles everything that bell talked about online
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
she experienced a very smooth and complication-free pregnancy. And in 2010, she gave birth to her son, Oliver. And while stepping into motherhood was, yes, a significant shift in her life, her relationship with Nate was very short-lived. The two of them were always arguing back and forth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Nate wasn't really ready to take on the responsibility of fatherhood or have a child, so they ended up parting ways soon after Oliver was born. And they chose just to co-parent together instead. Now, by then, Belle's health took another dramatic turn. Despite the fact that she was seemingly okay and healthy and well during her pregnancy, Belle's condition started deteriorating rapidly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
By this point, she had transitioned from posting on that skateboarding forum to now posting on Facebook and giving all of her updates there. She also claimed that she had been diagnosed with a stage 2 malignant brain tumor. She also told her followers that she met with a cancer specialist who told her that she only had four months to live. That was it. So now she was preparing for the end.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But Belle was not going to give up, and she really presented herself as a fighter, determined to defy the odds. At first, she said that she was following conventional medical advice, undergoing chemotherapy all in an effort to prolong her life. However, after just two months, she claimed that she was getting frustrated with the lack of progress.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She wasn't seeing the results that she wanted to see. So she told this very moving story. that she had passed out in front of the Melbourne hospital after receiving treatment, and when she woke up, she had an epiphany. If she only had a few weeks left to live, she wasn't going to live them like this. So, against her doctor's recommendations, she decided to reject modern medicine.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She declared she didn't even trust modern medicine anymore. She didn't trust the conventional ways, and she wanted to heal herself through alternative therapies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So she committed to a whole food, mostly plant-based diet, and she fully embraced the Gerson therapy, which is a very controversial regimen that claimed to detoxify the body and restore health through very strict diet changes, such as juicing, nutritional supplements, even frequent coffee enemas, which, you heard that right, shoving coffee up your butt and giving yourself an enema.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, Gerson therapy was developed in the 1920s by a German physician named Max Gerson. It promoted the idea that chronic illnesses and chronic diseases, including cancer, could all be reversed by flooding the body with nutrients. Nutrients that come from organic fruits, from vegetables, while you're also simultaneously eliminating toxins through relentless detoxification methods.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, as I said, ever since I watched this show on Netflix, I have been wanting to do the deep dive. I've talked about it a little bit, so you might know where I'm going with it. But it's apple cider vinegar and all things Belle Gibson.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
one of the most infamous being those coffee enemas. And again, those are just as it sounds, so look it up at your own risk. But anyway, advocates of this approach believe that cancer is a symptom of a quote, disease of the whole body, and that detoxifying through diet really can reverse the illness.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So Belle said online that this alternative regimen was working wonders, that her cancer was rapidly disappearing. And her story really became this testament to the power of natural healing, just drawing in all of these different supporters who saw her as living proof that doing an alternative path to recovery, it was not only possible, but it also worked.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But there was something strange about how Belle handled her illness. While she poured her heart out online, detailing every supposed struggle, she rarely, if ever, spoke about it with her close friends and family. In her personal life, cancer was not a frequent topic of conversation. She wasn't seeking support from those around her, nor did she even appear physically ill.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Yet on the internet, it was a completely different story. And Bell didn't just talk about her health online, she built an entire online identity around it. She even launched a blog and a public Facebook page, sharing every intimate and painful detail of her battle with cancer. She chronicled the ups, the downs, the struggles of single motherhood, her commitment to holistic healing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And I gotta say, it was a very compelling narrative. It truly was. Here was this young, beautiful, single mother fighting back against terminal brain cancer with nothing but just her sheer will and willpower and natural remedies, juicing, eating healthy. It was unbelievable. She wasn't just surviving either. She was thriving in all of this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I mean, it's no wonder that her story resonated so deeply with her audience, which at this point was just snowballing and growing. I mean, the amount of followers that she was getting from sharing her story, it was massive. Now, amidst all of this, Belle also attempted to launch an organic baby clothing line.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
However, the venture did not take off for whatever reason, but the failure definitely did not slow her down. So instead, she decided, you know what, I'm not going to try launching this product. Instead, I'm going to work what's already working, and I'm going to pivot everything and focus solely on social media. By 2012, she created an Instagram account under the handle Healing Belle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And on this Instagram account, she curated this space to really document every step about her health journey. She would post pictures of her passion for holistic health, pictures of recipes, of food that she was consuming, everything that she claimed was attributed to her miraculous and amazing recovery.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
and in her first post she wrote i have been healing a severe and malignant tumor cancer for the past few years with natural medicine gerson therapy and foods it's working for me and i am grateful to be here sharing this journey her message was simple yet it was also extremely powerful it was change your life one meal at a time that became her personal mantra and also a slogan that just fit perfectly into like the booming wellness industry
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Her audience exploded when this happened. She was no longer just this voice in the online health space. She was now quickly becoming one of the most influential figures in Australia's wellness community. During this time, Belle also entered into a relationship with Clive Rothwell. He is an older man and also an IT professional.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And while the details about their relationship are a little fuzzy, a little unclear, Clive played a significant role in her life. Not only did he help care for her son Oliver, but some believe that he also might have assisted in building her online presence.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I mean, Belle had no known expertise in web development or social media strategy, yet her brand was growing at this like extremely rapid pace. So it seemed like she had to be getting help from somewhere, and this older IT professional man, I mean... The math, maths, right? It feels like it fits. So as her platform expanded, so did the extreme nature of her claims.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It was almost like she had to like one up the ante every time or one up the ante, up the ante every time to where it was like, not that she was plateauing, but she wanted to keep the growth happening. So she didn't just talk about her diet anymore. she also started weaving in a very complex narrative about her health.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She claimed it to have seizures, brain swelling, difficulty walking, that she suffered from vision and memory problems. And at one point, she even claimed that she had ringworm, but that she decided to drink apple cider vinegar to help cure it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And almost immediately, she said this remedy, it was like she unlocked some piece of genius within her because when she drank the apple cider vinegar, this worm crept crawled out of her stomach into her mouth and she pulled it out. That's not how it works. That's not how it works. And I know that's totally disgusting.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But like I said, it's also super misguided because ringworm isn't actually caused by a physical worm. It's a fungus. But still, she went on. She also claimed to have suffered a stroke, and she attributed that to getting the cervical cancer vaccine. And this just drew in more and more people, people who truly distrusted mainstream medicine.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
They were looking for people who felt the same and a place to validate their skepticism and also validate that there is a natural way of healing. So Belle had positioned herself as this polarizing yet very compelling figure. She wasn't just some influencer peddling wellness tips. She was somebody who lived through it, healed herself after being told she only had four months to live.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now she had the answers that the doctors didn't. So as her online presence exploded, Belle realized she now had the opportunity to do more than just blog about her experiences. She wanted to turn her platform into something tangible, something that would truly solidify her influence in the health and wellness space. So by 2013, she came up with the idea for The Whole Pantry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
The Whole Pantry is a mobile app, and it would serve as her hub for her entire health philosophy, the recipes, the documenting, helping others, you name it. It wasn't just about documenting her journey anymore. It was about sharing the tools that had supposedly really saved her life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
The Whole Pantry was designed as a sleek, minimalist app that offered plant-based recipes. It also offered lifestyle tips, motivational content that centered around healing through food, and Bell marketed it as a holistic wellness guide, a resource for those looking to reclaim their health naturally.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
The same meals that she credited with curing her cancer were now accessible to her followers, to anybody who wanted it, reinforcing the idea that they too could heal themselves. If only they followed her lead. So in August 2013, Belle launched the Whole Pantry app. And it was successful almost immediately. I mean, within the first month, the app was downloaded around 200,000 times.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
By the end of the year, the app had earned the title of Apple's best food and drink app of 2013. And this is what she wanted. This is really what solidified her place in the booming health and wellness industry. Her followers were already devoted, but now they were treating her word like gospel. But the contrast between Belle and the content that she posted was also striking to certain people.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Because here was this young, healthy-looking woman sharing photos of smoothie bowls, raw vegan meals, you know, all these healthy organic fruits, all while claiming to be in the battle of her life with cancer. But still, people flocked to her social media pages and to the app. They left her heartfelt comments about how they were dealing with their own struggles.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, if you've been on Netflix lately, you might have seen Apple Cider Vinegar already, which is the show about Belle. And it's this woman who really built her empire entirely on health, wellness, and this massive, massive lie. Now, there is some truth to the show, but it's also a dramatization. So, as we always talk about, there's a lot more to the story.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
They were also cancer survivors and they were battling it. And Belle fully embraced this role as, I don't even know how you describe it, almost like a public healer. She didn't just offer support. She also was giving direct health advice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She would respond with recommendations that ranged from daily coffee enemas, shots of apple cider vinegar, warm water with lemon, and then even these all day long repeated juice cleanses. She tried to make it seem simple. Detox the body, nourish yourself with whole foods, and if you do that, you can overcome anything. The success of the whole pantry was nothing short of amazing either.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Overnight, Belle's life was completely transformed. She was generating hundreds of thousands of dollars from her app and from her social media platforms. Making so much money had such a heavy influence. But the financial success of it all, it wasn't her only goal. She was determined to help others.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So with all of this money, the way she wanted to help others was by making a commitment to donate most of her profits to charity, all with the intention of using her platform to help those in need.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
and she supported a lot of causes things that dealt with empowering young women who were experiencing poverty all the way to non-profits for asylum seekers i mean you name it she there were a lot of different causes but one story stuck a particularly personal cord
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Shortly after launching her app, Bell met a couple whose young son, just seven years old, Joshua Schwartz, he had been diagnosed with a rare, untreatable brain cancer at the age of five years old. So Bell felt an immediate connection to Joshua's struggle. She believed that his battle, it really mirrored her own. And she empathized deeply with his family's pain.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She wanted to be a support system for them. She wanted to help Joshua. So being motivated by this connection, Belle then went to Instagram, and she announced that she was going to donate 100% of the week's profits from the whole pantry, all to help the Schwartz family, help them in their efforts to get medicine to help Joshua.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And in a heartfelt caption, she wrote, Josh has a similar malignant, inoperable brain tumor to the one that I have. From the greatest ache and pains in my heart, I feel this little boy's journey and story. I want to help them find a medicine or a holistic happy miracle."
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So this combination of entrepreneurial success and passionate philanthropy not only solidified Bell's status in the wellness community, But it also painted a picture of a woman who was determined to overcome personal adversity, while also extending just whatever lifeline she could to others who were in need.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She claimed to have given over $300,000 to charity, and her narrative inspired so many supporters to help as well. And in the wake of all of this success, her rising fame opened up a new opportunity. Because in 2014, she signed a book deal with Penguin. And by November of that year, she launched a cookbook bearing the same name as her app, The Whole Pantry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, this wasn't just a collection of recipes. It was actually meant to be a full roadmap for natural healing and also serve as a memoir of her personal transformation. The cookbook promised readers an inside look at the plant-based meals that she credited with turning her life around, and it also gave them a guide to embracing a holistic lifestyle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And the preface of Bell's book was all about her upbringing. She recalled how she had a difficult childhood that was marked by early responsibility being thrown into adulthood early on, this tale of survival. And she wrote, Because mom was so ill, she needed a lot of help. I remember being six years old and cooking dinner for the first time, standing on a chair to reach the stove.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And I don't know, for whatever reason it is, documentaries sometimes, whether it's for legal reasons or because they have to fit a lot in in a short amount of time, they don't go into all of the details. And if you're anything like me, anytime I'm watching a dateline, a documentary, a series, I'm on my phone. I'm Googling it. I'm looking on Reddit.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I didn't understand the ritual of food. Cooking was just a survival tool to me, a job, a way out of doing the dishes. Nutrition was drinking fruit juice, which, by the way, has more sugar than Coca-Cola, and also eating more than a stomach could handle, leading me to be severely overweight in my preteen years. I moved out of the home when I was 12 years young, changing my life forever.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It was a year of many firsts. In my new home, I had a vegetable garden, and for the first time, I found out what real food was, how it grew, and the importance of nurturing a garden. I was empowering myself to save my own life through nutrition, patience, determination, and love.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So as you can imagine, Belle's success with her cookbook and with her app not only propelled her brand forward, but it also earned her significant industry recognition. Cosmo Magazine awarded her the Fun Fearless Female Social Media Award, and Elle Magazine also published a feature about Belle titled The Most Inspiring Woman You've Met This Year.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Both were a testament to her growing influence and the impact that she was making in the wellness community. And around that same time, Apple also reached out with very exciting news. They were preparing to launch the Apple Watch in 2015, and they announced that Belle's app was going to be one of the first apps that was automatically downloaded on the watch.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So this integration not only underscored the popularity of her app and what really it meant and how impactful it was, but it also marked a turning point in Belle's career, kind of just like catapulting her into the tech world, into this new realm of mainstream recognition. No longer was she this isolated Australian wellness guru. She was now on a massive global scale, partnering with Apple.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I mean, this was huge. And with all of this success, she found herself living a life and a lifestyle, I could say, that people only dreamed of. While she continued to donate a ton of her money to different charities, different organizations that were important to her, she also used her newfound wealth to buy a lot of luxuries in her life. She purchased designer clothing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She moved into this very lavish apartment. She seemed to acquire anything that she ever wanted with ease. No struggle in the world. And to many, it was inspiring. Like, look at this poor girl from a rough background who worked tirelessly to defy the odds, and she pulled herself up by her bootstraps. She's so successful now. She's rich. She's famous. She has everything. She's healthy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I'm looking at their social medias because I want to know everything. Everything below the line. And I swear, after all this research, I feel like I know Belle Gibson better than she probably knows herself, okay? I feel like I just am in her head, and I don't know. It's probably not healthy. I'm probably not well. But I just like to know every single detail.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Yet behind all of that glittery success and the everything on the surface, the facade that was out there, there started to be some doubts that started creeping in. People who were starting to question the authenticity of some of Belle's claims. Question one, when you lose weight, does the stubborn fat stay in your problem areas? And question two, do your body's problem areas run in your family?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It's not about willpower. You've willed yourself through years of brutal diets and 5 a.m. workouts, and you're still frustrated. And if it's not about willpower, it's likely genetics. And the doctors at Sono Bello have two questions to help determine if your body's problem areas are genetic.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Wherever you have stubborn, diet-resistant fat and inches, Sono Bello's micro laser fat removal technology removes it for good. all in one comfortable visit. Those stubborn inches around your tummy are gone. Muffin tops, side fat, gone. Thigh, arm, or back fat, gone. Even saggy, loose skin, gone. Permanently.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
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Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
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Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
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Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
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Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
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Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
That's betterhelp.com.ae. critics started questioning the validity of Bell's health story. And prominent cancer researchers also publicly challenged her holistic approach, arguing that there was no scientific basis for curing a malignant brain tumor through a diet of fruits, veggies, and coffee enemas.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
However, whenever anybody would just voice skepticism, her supporters just kind of all came out, rallied to her defense. We've seen that, right? On YouTube, podcasts, wherever it may be. When the trolls come out, the army comes full force and like counteracts them. They would dismiss all of these critics saying, they're just agents of big pharma. They don't even know what they're talking about.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So as I said, some of it was covered in apple cider vinegar. There also has been a new documentary that came out that was called The Search for Instagram's Worst Con Artist. That touched on it a little bit, but it mostly included the infamous 60 Minutes interview with her and kind of regurgitated certain details. It really didn't do a deep dive. So I'm here to do the deep dive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Her unconventional methods, they were working. They're the true path to healing. Look at her. She's a walking example of it. But adding fuel to the fire were also the contradictions in her public statements.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
On one hand, her cookbook proclaimed that she had been stable for two years with no growth of cancer, yet around the same time that her book was released, she also wrote on social media that her cancer was spreading. So which was it?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She wrote, "...with frustration and ache in my heart, it hurts me to find space tonight to let you all know with love and strength that I have been diagnosed with a third and fourth cancer." One is secondary and the other is primary. I have cancer in my blood, spleen, brain, uterus, and liver. I am hurting. So this was a huge inconsistency, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I mean, if her methods worked so well, why was she getting worse? Why was it spreading? So it cast a lot of doubt on whether or not her approach really was working, whether or not she was somebody who could be trusted. And the controversy surrounding her wasn't also without real-world consequences, because Some followers who were desperate for a cure, they abandoned conventional methods.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
They abandoned modern medicine and just started following her recommendations. One woman, Kylie Willey, recounted how she even delayed standard treatment for her leukemia just so that she could follow Bell's advice. And as a result, she nearly lost her life. Because once she started following Belle's advice, Kylie didn't get better. She got much, much worse.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Thankfully, she abandoned Belle's methods almost as quickly as she started them. And then she went back to receiving treatment recommended by her doctor. So thankfully, she recovered. But she wondered what may have happened if she continued to follow Belle's advice.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
People also wondered why Belle would invest so much time, so much money, so much effort into building this app and writing a book if she truly believed that she was dying. There were so many questions. I mean, why wasn't she more terrified upon learning that she was pregnant, given her supposed terminal diagnosis?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And why did she describe her brain tumor as stage two, when brain cancers are typically classified by grades rather than stages? So in the midst of, like, her rising fame, her luxurious lifestyle, all of these things, these contradictions and these controversies began to ruin the trust of some of Belle's loyal followers.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
While some of her supporters remained, yes, like, fiercely loyal, other people also started noticing a pattern of inconsistency. And that started calling into question the claims that she had built this entire business, this entire career and empire on. And these suspicions were not limited to the medical community and to Belle's supporters.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
close friends were also starting to question Belle's claims. One friend even started noticing that whenever Belle said that she was going to doctor's appointments and she claimed that these appointments were cancer related, she was actually going to appointments for cosmetic procedures like Botox or getting veneers, which is obviously much different than going to a cancer treatment facility.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
If you're just like walking into an injector, it makes no sense. And by early 2015, Chanel, one of Bell's closest friends, had begun to suspect that something was off with Bell's claims about having cancer. Chanel and Bell had met back in 2012 or 2013, when Chanel, then a journalist intern, was assigned to interview Bell.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I'm here to go over all of it, also to go through what's fact, what's fiction, what got left out, and... The biggest question, who the hell is the real Belle Gibson? Will the real Belle Gibson please stand up? Belle wasn't just another influencer. She was the face of the early Instagram wellness movement.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Their initial connection grew very quickly, and soon they became very close friends. However, over time, small red flags began to accumulate. For instance, Belle once asked Chanel to cook meals for the Schwartz family. Remember Joshua, the little boy who had cancer, the family that she claimed to be supporting because their young son was battling brain cancer?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So Chanel, always eager to help, had spent two full days preparing a huge batch of very nutritious meals, things for this family, believing these meals were meant for the Schwartz family. It was going to help them, it was one less thing for them to think about, and it would really, you know, be a nice thing to do.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
However, during a visit to Belle's home, Chanel was very surprised when she found that these meals were all still packed away in Belle's refrigerator, untouched, never delivered. So it became painfully clear that Belle had misled her at some point along the way, using this guise of charity to convince Chanel to cook while secretly then keeping the food for herself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And her suspicions only got worse because things weren't aligning with somebody who was fighting a terminal illness.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Belle was often seen drinking, doing drugs, eating junk food, even spending a lot of time in tanning beds, which is a lifestyle that is completely different, not only from someone who is a cancer patient and what you would expect them to be doing, but so different from the lifestyle that she was portraying on social media, the public persona she was putting out there.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now the tipping point for all of this came one night at a birthday party for Belle's son, Oliver. Because as the event started to wind down, something truly crazy happened. Belle just collapsed right there on the floor. She started convulsing. Saliva was coming out of her mouth. Her body was shaking uncontrollably. It was extremely scary.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Chanel started screaming for an ambulance, but she saw Belle then abruptly, when she started screaming for the ambulance, like snap back to normal. And dismissed the entire incident saying, I don't want Western medicine interfering. I'm supposed to be healing naturally. Don't call anybody. I'm fine. I'm fine.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But it was almost like that jolt of where Bell kind of snapped out of this seizure or whatever you would call it only happened when Chanel was going to call an ambulance.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She was the poster child for clean eating, for alternative healing, and most shockingly, the idea that nutrition alone had cured her terminal cancer. So at the height of her fame, Belle Gibson was like everywhere. She was praised as this wellness guru, this best-selling author. She was a living testament to the power of clean eating. But then, as it so often does, it all came crashing down.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
so she was completely disturbed by this and she started questioning whether belle was kind of mimicking the symptoms of cancer patients all to make her illness feel more genuine to sell her story to make it feel more real then after witnessing belle at a bar one night taking shots ripping shots chanel started confiding in mutual friends being like something's up here something doesn't feel right she was sharing her doubts with them she was just
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
kind of being like, this doesn't track, this isn't making sense. And a lot of them were also starting to wonder if Belle's stories were true. So that very night, the group of friends decided they were going to confront Belle at her apartment. Chanel very quickly, just bluntly said, hey, are you sick? Tell me, yes or no, are you sick? But Belle's reply was extremely vague and very defensive.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She just simply replied saying, of course I am.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And as the conversation continued, she just grew more and more defensive. She insisted that she truly did have cancer, yet every response she was giving, it just made the group doubt her more. And Chanel was urging Belle, just come clean. You don't even realize how much harm you're causing. You just need to tell the truth. But Belle refused to admit that she was lying.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So Chanel, feeling like Belle's lies could mislead others, she decided she was going to take further action. She reached out to lawyers, law enforcement, and even investigative journalists, all of which initially said they couldn't help her. But word of Chanel's concerns eventually reached two reporters from a publication called The Age.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Using the information provided by Chanel and a few other people who were close to Belle, they then began investigating Belle's story, ultimately uncovering mounting evidence that suggested Belle had fabricated her entire diagnosis. However, it was really hard to prove that Belle was lying about her medical stuff and having cancer because they wouldn't have immediate access to her medical files.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But then the light bulb kind of went off to where they're like, okay, well, if she's lying about her medical diagnosis, what else could she be lying about? So one of the first lies that they uncovered was her age.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Belle had long maintained an image of maturity that didn't quite match her background, but remember, she also said that she had to grow up very early, that she, like, was thrown into adulthood. She even claimed to have had her son when she was 20 years old, when, in fact, records later showed that she was only 17 years old at the time.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So it seemed like she deliberately made herself older to sound more credible.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And then, after these reporters started speaking to former friends of Bell's, all of these stories started coming out about how she would have this reputation for embellishing stories or lying or making things up all before her wellness career took off, that she would lie for attention constantly, and then she just, you know, boom, made it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
One friend even recounted an incident where Belle faked a heart attack. While others said, yeah, and sometimes she would also show up to school with her arm in a sling, pretending she had broken it. She also told people she was a test tube baby. Anything to give her, you know, a little edge, a little bit of tension.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
This woman who claimed to have healed herself through diet and lifestyle had in fact fabricated everything. The whole thing was a lie. There was no cancer. There was no miraculous recovery. It was just a huge web of lies. and lies that were inspired by the truth, but somebody else's truth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And it got to the point where nobody believed her and everybody was like, okay, sure, Belle, okay. Like, it's no weight in her stories anymore. But the biggest issue turned out to be her claims about the charity. Remember, Bell often bragged about donating huge chunks of her profits.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She even said that she had given away $300,000 to nearly 20 different causes, causes like maternal health care, human rights, community projects, even direct support for families who were in crisis. But when these reporters dug deeper, they found almost no evidence that any of this money had ever gone to the intended charities.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And many of the organizations that Bell had mentioned weren't even aware that they were being used to boost her image. And records only showed donations totaling around $7,000 over the course of several years, nowhere near the amount that she had claimed. And one case that really stood out, of course, was the Schwartz family, little Joshua. Belle had written about their son in her cookbook.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She had described him as this little man after her own heart, talking about how they had this unintimidated friendship and how she could relate to him so much. She even had organized fundraising for this family. But when the journalists reached out to them, They said they had never even received a dime from Belle, that they didn't even know that she was raising money for them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And Joshua's mom also said, you know, Belle was asking us a lot of questions about Joshua's diagnosis, details about it, almost like she was trying to gather that information to then use it as her own story for her own health. The whole thing was starting to unravel. So in March of 2015, The Age published an article and it laid out all of these discrepancies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It highlighted Belle's fake age, her sketchy charity claims, her friends casting doubt and painting her as having a reputation as a liar. And this had a huge response from the community. It went viral. Suddenly, every single claim that Belle had ever made, whether it's about her health, about her donations, it was all under serious scrutiny.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
After the article, even the institutions that had once backed Bell began to rethink their support. Penguin, the publisher of her cookbook, eventually revealed that they never found any evidence to back up Bell's claim that she had cancer. They simply had just taken her word for it. I mean, after all, who would ever lie about something so serious?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Cosmo, the magazine behind that award, also later admitted they never actually fact-checked Bell's claims. At first, they defended her, claiming that the award was determined by reader votes and that Bell won fair and square, but as backlash just continued to mount and brew, then they started feeling the pressure, and they ended up pulling back and rescinding the award from Bell.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And around that same time, Elle magazine, that magazine that published the in-depth story about Belle, they disclosed that shortly after their article went live, they received an anonymous email. This email read, It has come to my attention that you have published a story about a girl I have known my whole life. Her name is Belle Gibson, creator of the Whole Pantry app and book.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So before Belle became the face of the wellness movement, before the cookbook deals, before the social media fame, she was just Annabelle Natalie Gibson. She was born on October 8, 1991, in Lawceston, Tasmania, Australia. Now Belle's childhood, I gotta be honest, it's somewhat of a mystery, and a lot of details do still remain unknown. and her early years largely are undocumented as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
and she's also the so-called terminal cancer patient. Unfortunately, there are a few things that you might need to know before you consider publishing more about this woman. She is a compulsive liar. In fact, she got so tangled in her own web of lies living in Brisbane that she moved to Melbourne to start a new life of lies, the cancer lie, this time. For one, this girl isn't 26 years old.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She was born in 1991, class of 08, at Wynnum High School in Queensland. My younger brother was in her class. Secondly, she never had nor does she currently have any form of cancer. Where's the proof? I've known Belle since her childhood, and I'm close with her mother, and she has always had a problem with fabricating stories from nothing on a regular basis.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It's one thing to act as if she can cure her cancer by eating organic, which simply isn't true, but to give false hope to people who are actually fighting cancer is nothing short of evil. You must be aware of this before you publish stories about this woman. She is selling her fake sob story in order to profit from her app and her book sales.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a master manipulator. Sincerely, sick of seeing her lies published. Now, the magazine said that they didn't believe this email at first. But then, after that article from The Age was released, they were starting to wonder if this anonymous person who wrote this letter was in fact telling the truth.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So, facing mounting backlash and growing scrutiny, Bell began to backpedal, started to change her story. Sort of. I don't know about you guys, but I've told you, I think before, getting my kids to eat all of their veggies and don't even get me started on vitamins because most of them are just basically candy in disguise. They are loaded with sugar, weird gummy junk, additives, all of those things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
That's why I was so excited to find Haya, a super powered chewable vitamin made just for kids with zero sugar and all of the nutrients that they actually need. Now, Haya is made with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies, plus 15 essential vitamins and minerals, all to support things like immunity, brain function, and energy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So basically, all the good stuff that kids need to grow strong and healthy. And the best part? My kids actually love them. Even Theo, who is honestly so picky, he gets so excited to take his vitamin every morning.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
plus when your first order arrives your kids get to decorate their own bottle with stickers with like colors it makes it way more fun and it just gets them involved and if you're still struggling to get enough greens into your kids diet high as new kids daily greens plus superfoods is a game changer it's a chocolate flavored greens powder that is packed with 55 whole food ingredients that support brain power digestion and overall development just scoop shake and sip whether with milk or a non-dairy alternative
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And then boom, they're like getting their greens without the arguments, without the fight, without them being like, ew, it's green. And that's what my kids do. So if you're tired of reading labels and worrying about what's actually in your kids' vitamins, give Haya a try. Your kids and their health will thank you.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And we've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best-selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order. And to claim this deal, you must go to hayahelp.com. This deal is not available on their regular website. So go to h-i-y-a-h-e-a-l-t-h dot com slash a-e to get your kids the full body nourishment that they need to grow into healthy adults. highhealth.com slash a-e
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
One of Belle's first moves when she started backpedaling was to claim that a 2013 fundraising event had actually been an app launch party. So in other words, she was trying to say the event wasn't some attempt to raise money that never went to charity, no. It was, you know, a launch party. It was to celebrate. However, the invitation for the event told a very different story.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It clearly listed three charities on it. one that was dedicated to building schools in Sierra Leone, another supporting mothers and their babies in developing countries, and a third aiming at helping a critically ill five-year-old receive life-saving treatments overseas.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
What we do know comes mostly from her own words, but what we know about that and from her own words, it paints kind of this picture of just instability and constant chaos. Belle grew up in Brisbane, Australia, and she claimed that her father was absent for most of her life, leaving her mother Natalie to really shoulder the weight of their family's challenges, which there were a lot of them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
The invitation even included a link to a website that's titled The Whole Pantry Community and Charity Celebrations, which stated that ticket sale proceeds would go towards four charities that the community was passionate about. There was also another campaign in May of 2014 claiming that the proceeds from app sales would be donated to two charities.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But, shocker, as it turns out, neither charity ever received a single cent from Bell's company. Yet still, she tried to argue that these events, they were not fundraising events at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, when these simple explanations didn't put people at ease and calm people down, and when the scrutiny continued, you know, not even circulating, but actually growing, she decided to turn to social media to fight back.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And she urged her followers to attack the journalists who were exposing her, accusing them of knowingly contributing to the blatant attacking and bullying of myself and my family. That's a direct quote. But even now, this aggressive stance, it wasn't going to combat the mounting evidence against her, right?
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So in a desperate attempt to cover her tracks, Bell began erasing her digital footprint entirely. She deleted posts that referenced her illness. She deleted posts that referenced her charity work. She removed comments questioning her claims, and she wiped out most of her posts from 2010 to 2012.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Her whole Pantry Facebook page and Twitter account also vanished, and thousands of photos disappeared from her personal and professional Instagram profiles. This frantic cleanup, of course, only deepened suspicions, though, that her carefully curated story was just entirely built on a web of deception, and now she wanted to eliminate any trace of it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She wanted to clean it up like it never happened, so people wouldn't have the proof or couldn't start piecing together the puzzle pieces of this whole elaborate lie. Then there was also an account that was under the name Harry Gibson, and it was aggressively attacking anybody who dared to question Bell's claims.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Investigator reporters very quickly determined that this Harry Gibson was none other than Belle herself, which, I gotta say, if you're gonna use a pseudonym to try to, like, pretend to be somebody else to defend yourself, maybe don't use the same last name that you have. Right? Like, maybe that's a way to start. I don't know.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So as more journalists began exposing her story, Belle's desperation became evident.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
in one particularly aggressive move she reached out directly to a reporter and she accused them of pushing people to the brink of suicide with the stories about her saying you're writing such terrible things about me it's making other people suicidal it's making them want to kill themselves you need to stop which this was just another reminder that she would go to any lengths to defend her narrative but under this mounting pressure
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Bell eventually had to address the controversy over all of her charitable contributions. She admitted that the donations that she had promised were in fact delayed, but that it was because of poor record keeping and cash flow problems. It wasn't at all because she was planning on keeping this money for herself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She blamed disappointing sales and miscalculated profits for the setbacks, insisting that the money was still earmarked for donation. The whole pantry's business page even released an official statement saying,
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
TWP's new business management and accounts team are working through the workload of bringing the accounts and businesses up to date, and all charities have been openly communicated with, and they are aware of our intentions to uphold this financial support when the necessary keeping of the business are finalized.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, I'll be honest, that kind of makes sense to me, but it also kind of feels like a word salad. But okay, at least she was addressing it and making a statement, right? But there was still public outrage. People were pissed, and things continued to unravel for Bell. A few months after that first article, she finally agreed to do an interview with Australian Woman's Weekly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And Belle has described a childhood where she herself really acted as a caretaker from a remarkably young age, starting at just five years old. In Belle's version of events, she was the one who was holding everything together, the glue of the family, helping care for her mother, who suffered from MS. She cared for her younger brother, who was autistic. She was the matriarch of the family.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And, I gotta be honest, she thought this was a strategic move, but it was a decision that only ended up hurting her more in the long run. Because in that interview, Bell admitted that the stories that she had spun about her cancer were all fake. Well, not all of them, but at least the recent claims of her being diagnosed with a third and fourth cancer and it spreading.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Yet even as she admitted that these stories were untrue, she maintained that her alternative therapies had been her lifeline in fighting what she once claimed was an aggressive brain tumor for five years. She said, "...none of it's true. I don't want forgiveness. I just think speaking out was the responsible thing to do."
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She went on to explain that there was a point where she truly believed she had cancer, but that the lack of clear answers from her doctors led her to start theorizing on her own. She tried to explain her actions away too by saying, if I don't have an answer, then I will sort of come up with one. It's easy to do when you're left in the dark.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, the most surprising thing about this interview was that Bell showed absolutely zero remorse for lying. Instead, she attributed her lies and her fabrications all back to her troubled childhood, to her rough upbringing. She really blamed her estranged mother for leaving her and for making her fend for herself starting at the age of five.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Yet this explanation, which I believe was carefully curated to evoke sympathy, it fell flat for a lot of people. And it felt like a really bad justification for such a horrible lie. So shortly after this interview... Belle then appeared on 60 Minutes Australia in what would become one of the most infamous interviews of her entire career. In this interview, she looked clean, refreshed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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She had this huge hot pink lip gloss and hot pink turtleneck sweater on, which I honestly, I'm going to tell you, I thought about wearing a hot pink turtleneck for this episode. I don't own one though, but I was like, that'd be so funny if I just like dress like her. I don't know, just because she looks like such a freaking try-hard.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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But anyway, it seemed like she was doing this to portray herself as super polished and also to, like, distract people a little bit, if that makes sense. I don't know. But in this interview, she tried to make every excuse possible to defend why she lied about everything. Everything from her early claims of those heart issues to then those later claims of brain cancer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
No.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
They also didn't have a lot of money, and her mom was also always apparently dating questionable people. So because of that, Belle said, you know, I really had to step into this role. I had to take care of my mother, my, you know, unwell brother. I had to do everything. We didn't have a lot of money. I had to figure things out at just such a young age.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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you're not now instead of providing clarification this interview it just caused more confusion because this time she claimed that she had been wrongfully diagnosed with cancer that a german alternative medicine practitioner back in 2009 is the one who diagnosed her with brain cancer and that it was a misdiagnosis so she can't be held responsible for this and according to this new story she truly did believe that she was dying and she underwent this german's quote magnetic therapy
Serialously with Annie Elise
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mistakingly thinking that it was a form of radiation treatment that was meant to cure her cancer. When she was pressed by the interviewer to name the doctor who misdiagnosed her, she couldn't provide a name, though. Instead, she maintained, I've not been intentionally untruthful. I have been openly speaking about what was my reality.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Like, I'm the one who carried that weight on my shoulders. And by the time Belle reached elementary school, she pretty much claimed that she was essentially a mini-adult, that she was navigating life with responsibilities that would be overwhelming to actual grown-ups, to real adults.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Which, I'm going to say that again, because it is very smart and very carefully worded. I've not been intentionally untruthful. I've been openly speaking about what was my reality. Kind of creating this loophole to say, even though I didn't have cancer, it was my reality at the time that I did. I thought that I did, so I can't be held responsible for this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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To where the accountability doesn't quite fall on her. From an outsider's point of view, it certainly does, but just very careful with the words that she's using. Bell also admitted that by 2011, she realized that this German doctor had misdiagnosed her. Yet she still claimed that something was wrong. She just didn't know what. So she insisted that she was still trying to make sense of everything.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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She was still trying to figure out what was happening with her body. She was seeking treatment from conventional medical professionals. She was struggling to define her own symptoms. She was just trying to figure it out. So then when she was asked by this interviewer directly, did you have cancer? She hesitated a little bit. But then she replied, I really, really hope not.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And eventually this interview just went off the rails and got so ridiculous, Belle couldn't even give a straight answer to the most simplest of questions.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She was in charge of everything from helping her mother move around, to managing her brother's behaviors, helping him with school, getting dinner on the table, you name it. On top of that, she was also making her own lunches, she was cleaning the house, doing the grocery shopping, she was arranging medical appointments for both her mom and her brother.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I mean, word salad, but also so roundabout and Looney Tune. It's just bizarre to me. So as the controversy deepened, the fallout happened pretty quickly. Apple, who was once super excited and eager to feature her app on their brand new Apple Watch, they announced that not only are they not featuring her app on the watch, they're removing her app from the entire lineup, the entire thing.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And not long after that, her cookbook was pulled from shelves, her publishing company dropped her altogether. It was like everything, the house of cards, it was all starting to fall. And in the midst of all this unraveling, even more voices started emerging, shedding light on the many, many layers of Belle's deception. And one of the most striking revelations came from her own family.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Belle's own stepfather stepped forward to tell a very different story. He admitted that her childhood, yes, had been far from easy, and Belle did indeed leave home around the age of 12, but instead of disappearing and bouncing from friend house to friend house and couch surfing, she moved in with an older male neighbor, a man who lived just down the street from her mother.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Which, I have to say, that is really crazy. What kind of mother, in their right mind, would allow their 12-year-old daughter to move out and go live with an older adult male who has no relation to the family. I mean, I don't want to speculate, but I can only imagine what probably went on in that house. It can't be good.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, Belle's mother later spoke out, too, offering a very different account of Belle's childhood. When it came to Belle's claims about her childhood, her mom said, quote, What a lot of rubbish. Belle never cared for me. Her brother is not autistic, and she's barely done a minute's housework in her entire life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I've practically worked myself into an early grave to give that girl everything that she wanted in life." And adding to this mounting evidence against Belle and all of her claims, her brother Nick also broke his silence in an interview. He confirmed he was not autistic, and he also expressed genuine confusion over why Belle would have described him that way.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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She even claimed that she was a huge advocate for her brother, asking doctors to focus on his diet and to focus on holistic methods of healing, all to help his autism. Now, I don't know how she did this at just five years old, long before her peers even learned how to ride a bike without training wheels or even tie their shoes, but she claimed that she did it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
He recalled that he and Belle had been close when they were younger, but then as they grew older, he noticed a disturbing shift in her behavior.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So with family members coming forward, friends speaking out, cracks in her story widening, I mean, it was only a matter of time until House of Belle was going to be, like, just rubble, right? And by May of 2016, Consumer Affairs announced that they were seeking legal action against Belle.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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This legal action was for making false claims about a terminal brain cancer diagnosis and for, of course, fabricating charity donations. So as legal action ramped up, the case against Bell eventually reached the federal courts. And the courts gave her a fine that totaled to $410,000. The $410,000 divides differently.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Some of it was for that one week of whole pantry sales that was supposed to go towards the family. Other was for not donating proceeds from the app's launch. Another was from a fundraising event. But in total, everything came up to $410,000. Meanwhile, Penguin Books, who had published her cookbook without, you know, verifying her claims, was also forced to pay a fine of $30,000.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, they paid this fine almost immediately because they just wanted to completely distance themselves from Belle, which I don't blame them for that. And by March of 2017, the Federal Court of Australia delivered its final ruling. There was no evidence that Belle ever had cancer, and her claims about curing it with natural remedies, they were entirely false.
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Yet, the judge noted that Bell appeared to have acted out of delusion rather than with criminal intent. The judge said, quote, She played on the empathy and generosity of the Australian community. Her pitch overwhelmingly used groups likely to evoke sympathy because of their vulnerabilities. Young girls, asylum seekers, and young children.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And she says that because of it, she was overwhelmed. So Belle left her family home at the age of 12 years old. She moved around a lot, crashing on friends' couches, staying with neighbors, never truly having a stable place to call home. Now, after a brief stint in a local high school, she ended up dropping out at around the ninth grade.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, by 2019, Bell didn't pay any of her fines, still hadn't paid a single cent, so she was ordered to appear in court or face jail time. And when she finally showed up to court later that year, I gotta say the balls of this woman because she was wearing a brand new dress, $400 St. Laurent sunglasses, all while claiming she had no money and that's why she couldn't pay these fines.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And her financial statements did paint, I will say, a pretty grim picture. She was nearly $170,000 in debt and she only had $5,000 to her name. However, we also know when people are that savvy and when they want to, they can hide money elsewhere. They can park it in different places and you can look like you have no money.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But what made this situation even more confusing was that by this point, Belle had also relocated to the United States because she wanted to get away from all the criticism that was back home in Australia. So now she was living in LA, and she was living in a very lavish home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Her son was attending a private school, her partner Clive sent them on an extravagant vacation to Africa, so like, clearly this chick still had money. Reports even revealed that between 2017 and 2019, Belle spent nearly $90,000 on designer clothing, on makeup, and accessories. So, hardly the habits of somebody who is facing severe financial distress or ruin.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But like I said, you can park your money if you're smart enough, and you can make it look like you have no money.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She later claimed that she didn't drop out of school, though, that she just started to homeschool herself, but there was really not a whole lot of evidence to back that up. Then, in late 2008, when she was 17 years old, she decided to make a pretty bold move.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Another hot topic was Gibson's choice of wardrobe. So in 2020, with no resolution in sight, the sheriff's office in Australia decided to take action. They ended up raiding her property, and when they did that, they seized belongings of hers that would cover the amount of fines that she still owed, which also, thanks to accumulating interest, she now owed over half a million dollars.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But even with this raid by the sheriff's office, Bell's financial situation remained unresolved. By 2021, she still hadn't paid off any of her fines, and by May 21st of that year, the authorities ended up raiding her home once again. But to this day, Belle still has not paid her fines. And that to me just shows she has no remorse for what she's done. Not even trying to be remorseful.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She doesn't care. And that also takes me back to, I think this was done with criminal intent, even though the judge ruled it as delusion. No, this is calculated. This is gross. This is like, I don't like it. It feels disgusting. At this point, she also pretty much vanished from the public eye. She briefly reappeared in 2020, sparking a fresh wave of controversy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Videos emerged showing her claiming that she had now been adopted by a local Ethiopian community. And she even appeared in a video referring to Ethiopia as quote, being back home.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She packed her bags, and she headed to the complete opposite side of Australia, 45 hours away from the place that she grew up, now in the city of Perth. There, she was all alone. She didn't have any family. She didn't have any friends. She didn't have a solid plan for how she was going to get by. But she made it happen. And Belle had, I will say, this naturally charming personality.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Sleep with one eye open. She insisted on being called Sabon too, and she appeared in these videos attending community events, weddings, meetings, and just casual neighborhood barbecues. It was almost like she was now, once again, embracing an entirely new identity.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
However, this community's warm welcome, it was short-lived, because once these videos circulated, all of these concerned locals began receiving messages from outsiders warning them about Belle, about her lies, her notorious past, her history of using people. So the community, already kind of confused about where Belle came from, they grew increasingly suspicious.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Initially, the group's leader had assumed that Belle might simply be a girlfriend or a relative of one of the members. But then, as time went on, Belle's behavior raised even more red flags, because she started asking community members questions about their personal financial situations.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So these questions, combined with the warnings from outsiders, convinced this Ethiopian community that something just was not right here with Belle. So in a move to protect their group, the leaders expelled Belle. They barred her from any future events. They were like, no, get out of here, good riddance.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Soon after that, her relationship with Clive also started to unravel, though the full details, they remain a little bit unknown. Clive has been by her side through all of the ups and downs, living with her, supporting her, even raising her son, their son, Oliver, together.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Some people theorized that he was well aware of the inconsistencies in Belle's story, but that he chose to overlook them, just happy to ride the coattails of all of her success. while others believe that his deep bond that he shares with Oliver is what led him to suppress his doubts, all in order to maintain stability for the family and for Oliver, who he treats as his own son.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, even as the layers of her personal life and her lies and everything she did, the deception, even as those layers are peeled back, the true motivations behind Belle's elaborate web of lies, it's still a mystery, right? What did she do this for? Why did she lie? I personally think it was for attention,
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And then when she started realizing she could get even more attention with a book, with this and that, and started to see the influx of money, I think then it became more financially motivated. But I don't think that it stems from that. I don't think the root was for money. I think it truly was for attention and maybe even acceptance, which is kind of sad, but...
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She was friendly. She had a way of just making people feel seen and feel validated. She used that charisma, too, to her advantage. She even landed a job at a call center for a private insurance company when she was young and trying to, like, make her way now in Perth. And she did well for herself.
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Also kind of desperado and like certainly not a good enough excuse to do what she had done. Now some people believe that her entire act was an attempt to emulate another Australian wellness creator named Jess.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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Jess had already made a name for herself by documenting her own battle with cancer and also by, you know, speaking out in support of alternative therapies like Gerson therapy and coffee enemas and all of that. Now, although it wasn't brain cancer, unlike Belle, Jess actually faced a rare aggressive form of skin cancer, which even led doctors to recommend amputating her arm.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But Jess chose to fight back with alternative treatments, and she shared every raw detail of her journey online, even announcing that her mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer and was following the same treatment plan as she was. It's in therapy, but it's a
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She succeeded in her position, and she started befriending all of her coworkers, really using that charm, that wit, almost that sob story, too, of her childhood to lure people in. And in her free time, Belle became heavily involved in the local skateboarding community.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Eventually, Jess's mom passed away in 2013. And after her mom died, Jess began to realize that her holistic treatments just were not working. So then she tried to seek conventional medical care, but unfortunately it was too late. The cancer had spread throughout her entire body and it could no longer respond to treatment. So Jess herself passed away in 2015.
Serialously with Annie Elise
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around seven years after she was initially diagnosed with cancer. So there are reports that Belle even showed up to Jess's funeral, even though she was never invited. But Belle always tried to make it seem like to the outside world that she was good friends with Jess. Yet, they didn't know each other very well at all.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
They just happened to run in the same internet circles, the same wellness circles. And at the funeral, in true Belle fashion, she tried to make it all about herself. She was wailing, she was crying so loudly, so much, that people couldn't even concentrate on the service that was happening. A lot of people think that all of her outrageous lies are basically, like I said, just a cry for attention.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Friends have always said that she was an attention seeker, even from a very young age, and that if she was never the center of conversation, she would just come up with, like, crazy stories and crazy lies to stay in the spotlight.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Some even suggested that she might suffer from having Munchausen's, which basically is when somebody deliberately exaggerates or makes up symptoms to get sympathy or makes themselves sick. In the end, whether it was an attempt to copy Jess because of the...
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
attention Jess was getting and the accolades that Jess was getting or just this constant need for validation or I don't know something maybe even deeper. The real reasons behind Belle's elaborate lies and this hoax still remain unclear. And like I said that Netflix show Apple Cider Vinegar it doesn't always clear things up. It kind of invents characters and storylines for the show that are like
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
true-ish, but not all true. And they don't really match reality. There are lists online of all the differences between the show and what actually happened, which you can look up. But one example is that in Apple Cider Vinegar, there is a character who is loosely depicted and based on Jess, the actual young woman who died from cancer.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
It isn't clear whether this was something that she was always interested in, if that was something she liked to do and, you know, skate, or whether she ever actually even skated herself or just hung out with people who did it, but the people involved in that community became her main core group of friends.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And her family is not happy with how in the Netflix dramatization, this character is depicted as sort of like this jealous rival with Belle. There was never any jealousy like that. There was never any sort of rivalry. So again, they base it loosely on a story, but then they exaggerate certain storylines to enhance the interest, the production value, all of those things.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And Chanel, the friend who initially confronted Belle about her lies and called her out and then even went to the press and to law enforcement about these lies, she has issues with the show as well.
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So I guess that kind of brings a bigger question into play here. And I'm curious to know what your thoughts are. Is it okay for a true crime drama to change a few details here and there or exaggerate certain things to make it more compelling of a story? Or is that just adding another layer of confusion and lies on top of a story that's already about lies and deception?
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Because then the viewer takes it at face value and thinks it's all true. I don't know. I also want to know what you think. What do you think Belle's true motive was in all of this? And she still hasn't paid any fines. Was her punishment enough? Probably not because she didn't even pay anything. She wasn't even punished.
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She was punished on a piece of paper, but like there was no punishment because she hasn't paid her fine. So did she learn her lesson? I don't think so. She once again changed her identity and morphed into somebody else in Ethiopia. Like what's going on? What is going on? I don't know. I'm still diving into this because like I think it's only a matter of time before Belle speaks out.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And as for Belle, her interest in skateboarding followed her into her online world, her new orbit, her online persona. She even became an active member of the website Skateboard.com, where... She carefully just curated and crafted this whole new rebellious identity. Up until then, Belle was your typical normal-looking teenager.
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And you know what I would love? I'm just thinking of this now. I don't know how much people pay for interviews. I think I remember hearing that the 60 Minutes interview, they paid her like $70,000 or something like that for that train wreck of an interview. I bet you big networks have a lot of money at their disposal. Like maybe not this amount of money, but how awesome would it be?
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And this is maybe a call to action. So if you agree with me on this, share this episode and tag these people. But what if like Good Morning America came out and said, you know what? Belle, we are going to pay you $410,000. All of the money that you owe in these fines to pay back these promises, to do all this stuff, we're going to pay you that if you come on and do an interview with us right now.
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Clear all this up. Let's talk. And we'll pay that.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
or even better we'll pay you 100 grand to do the interview and we'll also pay all of your fines for you directly so that you can be absolved and free of this whole headache just come do an interview now that i say that out loud i get that it might be controversial because she shouldn't be paid for just speaking she should have to like do the hard labor the hard work to pay that money back and like feel it so maybe that's actually a terrible idea now that i think about it and sit with it
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But I don't know. At least then there would be like some sort of retribution. At least the people who are wronged would be made whole. But yeah, I get where that actually doesn't teach her a lesson. But I just really want her to do another interview. I want, I would love to talk to her directly. I doubt she would ever come on here. But Belle, if you're listening.
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come chat if you are back in la i'm a stone throw away i'm an hour away come in girl i have a lot of questions um but i'm sure that we will hear from her soon on some sort of platform kind of like we ended up hearing from anna delvey again i i just feel like she's too much of a narcissist to let all of these things come out about her and continue coming out about her and not try to like combat them i could be wrong but that's my opinion so let me know what you guys think
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All right, thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode, the whole deep dive on Belle Gibson. If you are a brand new listener and you've never listened to us before, take a moment, follow the podcast so that you don't miss anything. Every Thursday, we also release an episode called Headline Highlights where we go through everything going on in the true crime world.
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So you can tune back in for that. And we also have bonus episodes if you need more content to binge. But yeah, thank you guys so much for listening. Until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't scam people. Don't join any cults. And just try to be a good person. Alright? Thanks guys. Bye.
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She had light eyes, blonde hair, but then she decided she needed to make a change. She dyed her hair black, she got piercings, she also got multiple tattoos, and it was almost like she wanted to become this whole new person and leave her previous life just completely behind her. Now, on this skateboarding form, Belle found a space where she felt like she could finally be whoever she wanted to be.
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She filled her posts with profanity, with crude humor, and would have these very candid discussions about partying and dating, just fully immersing herself in this online community. But between jokes, she would also start sharing a little bit more about her vulnerability, about personal things regarding herself.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are having a good start to your day because we have got a lot to talk about today. I have been like reeling wanting to talk about this case with you guys. I've been researching ad nauseum, so many details and there's so much to talk about.
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Things like how she dreamed about going to school one day to study marketing and business, or how she was drawn to the idea of building something for herself, crafting a brand, and really making an impact.
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And it was almost like that form message board situation was like her first testing ground, a place where she could experiment with different personas, gauge reactions, and learn how to shape a story that people would really want to follow. She basically learned how to capture the attention and make people care about her. So this form was almost like an early version of social media for her.
Serialously with Annie Elise
247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And as she spent more time on the site, her posts grew increasingly personal. She started sharing more details about her life, and she just had this level of openness that made this form feel less like an online message board and more like a personal blog. Then by May 2009, her posts took a pretty drastic turn. Pretty dramatic turn, I should say.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Because what started as just casual discussions about skateboarding, nightlife, partying, things like that, they all shifted to something much more serious. Because Bell started posting about some pretty alarming health issues, claiming she had suffered a stroke, she was now dealing with severe heart problems and problems that required her to have multiple surgeries.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And Bell's posts did not go unnoticed. I mean, the more that she shared about her health struggles, the more people on this forum started paying attention to her. Many of them had formed genuine bonds with her too, and they truly cared about what she was going through. Then, on May 5th, her post took a particularly alarming turn. She claimed that she had to be rushed into emergency surgery.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Her post was brief, but it was pretty dramatic, and this caused a flood of responses from all these worried members and friends of hers. The post read, I have fluid around my heart that needed to be drained or else my heart would have stopped pumping blood and I would have died. I need to get a valve replaced, but I can't afford it yet. So everybody was panicked. Everybody was worried.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
But then just two weeks later, Belle escalated her story. She now told people on this form that she was heading back to the hospital, this time for her third heart surgery. Now, this announcement started to raise some eyebrows because didn't she just say that she couldn't afford surgery 15 days ago, but yet now she's going into her third surgery? How is this tracking?
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
How is she affording multiple surgeries in such a short time? But many people didn't really question it. They kind of set their doubts aside. They responded with words of encouragement, with words of concern, support, and they wanted to be there for Belle. A day later, on May 21, Belle returned to the forum with an update. According to her, the surgery had not gone as expected.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
She claimed that she temporarily died on the operating table all before doctors miraculously revived her. Her post read, "...the doctor comes in and tells me that the draining failed and I went into cardiac arrest and I died for just under three minutes. I have the most intense bruising from the paddles when they electrocuted me back to consciousness.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I went straight into a coma situation for six hours and I just woke up crying for my iPhone." They're amazing. I'm sitting up already and I am a miracle. And Bell's health claims did not slow down there. They only intensified. Eventually, she told this form, her new online group of peers and friends, she told them her condition was worsening.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Before we get into that, if you are a brand new listener and you have never checked out this podcast, you know, and this is your first time listening, let me give you a little breakdown of what it is we do here. My name is Annie.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Now, she was saying that she had a tumor on her heart and it was time to prepare for the inevitable. She was terminal. All right, if you guys know my dog Freckles, you know that he is the pickiest eater ever. I swear, finding a food that he actually likes has honestly been harder than feeding my two toddlers. But once we tried Ollie, it totally was like Freckles' favorite thing in the world.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
He devoured it. Tail wagging, bowl licking, I mean, asking me, where's the rest with his little face? He was like a whole new level of obsessed. Now, Ollie is fresh, clean nutrition that is made just for your pup. It also has five protein first recipes that they absolutely will flip over. It's like recipes like fresh beef with sweet potatoes or fresh turkey with blueberries.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
There's also no harmful fillers, no preservatives, just real whole food, gently cooked and perfectly portioned to keep your dog happy and healthy. In fact, a fresh food diet like this has been proven to extend your pup's life by two and a half years, which Who doesn't want more time with their furry best friend, right? I know I do.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
And I've showed you guys the food on my Instagram too, like showing you when I put it into the bowl and Freckles literally just like attack the bowl and eat it and inhale it. But he truly loves it. And getting started is so easy. You just take a quick quiz about your pup and then Ollie will customize the perfect meal plan.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
You'll get a starter box with two weeks worth of food, plus a guide to transition them smoothly. And with flexible plans, whether you want full fresh meals, fresh toppers, or a mix, Ollie makes it simple to give your dog the very best. So if your pup is as picky as mine, or you just want to give them the nutrition that they deserve, check out Ollie today.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
I like to consider myself like a true crime bestie of yours trying to break down these cases with you as though I'm talking with my best friend or my sister over a cocktail or coffee and just talk through these things together. Do deep dives, talk about the rabbit holes, talk about what's on social media, theories, all of those different things, and just break it down in less of a clinical way
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
Your dog will thank you, probably with a million puppy kisses, which is amazing, but give your pup a fresh start this year by letting them taste a personalized meal plan with Ollie. Head to ollie.com slash AE, tell them all about your dog, and use code AE to get 60% off your first box of meals when you subscribe today. Plus, they offer a clean bowl guarantee on the first box.
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247: Exposing The Truth About Belle Gibson & Netflix’s ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’
So if you're not completely satisfied, you will get your money back. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash A-E and enter code A-E to get 60% off your first box. Start your dog's new year off right with Ollie.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
But that leads us to what we're talking about today. Because Sherry, Frankie, Ruby's daughter, the oldest one who has been so outspoken since all of this has happened, she wrote a book, a memoir called The House of My Mother, A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. And like I said, it is extremely powerful.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
This book truly was so well written from the timeline that the events were laid out in all the way to the details that Sherry chose to share. and even the important takeaways that she made sure to include, like some of the dicier laws that affected her being able to get help for her siblings or for family vlog channels in general.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
The book is called The House of My Mother, A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. And I mean, I just gotta say, the amount of bravery that it would take to write something like this, and I would hope and imagine the healing element as well, it is truly incredible. So a lot of people are asking for my take on her book because in this book, she...
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, one really important thing that stood out to me above all was that from the very beginning to end, Sherry's main goal in this book was to write her experience, her story. And even though she shared some simple facts about her younger siblings, like, for example, them being isolated from the outside world and their family and
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Being left alone in the care of Ruby and Jodi, she made sure to never tell their story for them. She wanted to make sure that she didn't exploit them in the process of writing her book like Ruby had really exploited them all of those years.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
In fact, besides her brother Chad, who was still her younger brother but was closer to her in age and living on his own out of the house when Ruby was arrested, the younger siblings' names aren't even mentioned once throughout the entirety of the book.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
That's why I also didn't reference their names earlier when I was talking about certain situations that had happened and certain forms of punishment that Ruby had inflicted.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, just from the clarification at the end of the book, I knew that this was going to be a good one because the first part of the book touched on both Ruby and Kevin's childhood experiences and what truly led them to end up together. Sherry described how growing up, Ruby's number one goal was to always get married and have a house full of children.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
mainly because of the LDS church that they were raised in, not necessarily because it was genuinely what she wanted out of life, but more so what she thought was the right thing to do as a Mormon woman. Sherry even describes the concepts of love and marriage from Ruby's mindset when she became of age and how it was to simply obtain a husband and kids, not for love itself or to actually be in love.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She described her as having, quote, an audition for husbands, going from guy to guy until she essentially found someone who was, one, part of the LDS faith, and two, was willing to have a ton of children. So when she finally met Kevin, according to Sherry, it wasn't this moment of like, he's the one, he's perfect. It was more so, you know, he checks all the right boxes.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now they met when they were both only 18 years old, and they were engaged after two weeks of dating, and they were married three months after meeting each other. And then came all six of the kids. seemingly one after another. Sherry consistently shared stories of her childhood, reminding the readers too that Ruby simply wasn't a good mom to her ever.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
It wasn't as if all of Sherry's life she was this doting, loving mom who then just got swept up and swept away in whatever the heck Jodi was preaching. No, not at all. She even shared a story of being five years old and being forced to play the piano like Ruby always had played herself, and that she had been being smacked on the arm or even getting her ear tugged if she didn't cooperate.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
But it wasn't simply just about cooperation. Sherry revealed that it was the earliest time that she could remember that she eternally realized that with Ruby, you not only had to say okay and do as she told you to do, but you had to do it enthusiastically. A frown, a groan, or an eye roll, it would get you smacked. And further, if you were punished, you were not allowed to cry about it.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Which is when she really learned to essentially put a mask on around Ruby and present her as the kind of kid that she wanted her and her siblings to be. It was also at five years old that she recalled ever feeling anxiety for the first time, simply by just being at home. She wrote that her unexplainable stomach aches were really just her anxious thoughts that were manifesting inside her body.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
puts a lot of the puzzle pieces together about the dynamic between Ruby and Jodi. She also shares her firsthand account of what went down in that house, what it was like living with Ruby Franke. And so not only are we going to just do a quick recap for those of you who don't know or are unfamiliar with this situation in this case,
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Though she wouldn't learn until later in life when she had the correct names or tools to even self-diagnose something like that. It's also important to note that with each cry for help to her mom about, you know, having an upset stomach when she was feeling all of this, Ruby would just invalidate her, telling her that she was fine, that nothing was wrong with her.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And at first, Ruby was a mommy blogger, like I said. She was posting things like family baking recipes, little things like that, because during that time, blogs were all the rage. It wasn't video blogs yet, so it wasn't vlogs. It was just like actual online text and some photos.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And something that I found interesting was the topic of conversation centered around the belief and teaching in the LDS faith to really document your life so that generations can look back at it almost as like a teaching sort of way. Sherry relates this belief to the fact that even today, so many family vlogging channels are people in the LDS church.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Of course, one thing doesn't necessarily correlate with the other, but the numbers are pretty staggering. I mean, just this past year, we saw the TV show The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, and it was an absolute hit. People love to see behind the scenes and behind the curtain of the lives that are so different from their own.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, for the Franke family, in the beginning, this form of documentation was kind of like required journal time. Sherry remembered Ruby going room to room at bedtime making sure that everyone was writing in their journals. Then it moved on to Ruby documenting on her blog, and eventually the channel which we know as 8 Passengers.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
It wasn't until much later after Ruby's sisters started posting to YouTube and she saw how well people responded to that sort of thing that she decided to start a channel of her own. And thus, 8 Passengers was born on January 8th, 2015. Now, the ironic thing about that was that Ruby would later go on to disown all of her sisters and completely cut all of them off from her life.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
But that's just a little tidbit I felt like I needed to share, and I'm not trying to digress from the story, but it's important. itself is already pretty well covered and talked about, so I'm not going to really go into detail about the little things surrounding it.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
But as you can imagine, Sherry spoke about how embarrassing and how awkward it was to pretty much go through puberty with a camera just constantly in her face. Every moment was captured. Every moment was directed. She described Ruby as being like a Hollywood producer, telling them to do certain things or look a certain way while they were filming.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And like I mentioned earlier, because Sherry knew that it was in her best interest to listen, she did. Ruby's Hollywood production skills ended up paying off too, because in just six months, the channel was monetized, which is when she then began taking things even further and even more serious, because she now realized she could make money.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So it took on this whole other level of intrusiveness after seeing the checks that were starting to come in and the money that could be made. She remodeled everything in their life to look aesthetically pleasing, to look good on camera. She bribed her kids with money or with being able to use the eight passengers credit card as a tax write-off for whatever it is they wanted.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And constant vlogging became such a new normal in their lives. So much so that Sherry was able to differentiate between Ruby not filming and Ruby filming when she would have her, quote, vlog voice on, before she ever even would see a camera to confirm. She would just know by the tone of Ruby's voice, oh, she's recording right now, we're on vlog, versus, oh no, here's her real voice.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
But then I'm going to go through the biggest key takeaways in this book. And there are quite a few because I went through the entire book. And like I said, it's a very, very powerful and empowering book. So I would suggest all of you, if you haven't picked up a copy or downloaded the audiobook, definitely do so.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, all the while, behind the scenes and behind the camera, she was using such cruel forms of punishment that would just get worse and worse over the years. In one story, Sherry shared that her brother Chad had taken scissors at a young age and clipped a small piece of her hair.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So as a punishment, Ruby cut his hair with an awful streak of bald right down the middle so that it was sticking out in all these different directions just to make it look terrible. Her goal was to humiliate him, knowing that that in itself would be like the perfect punishment. And as Sherry grew older, her mental health worsened.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She experienced anxiety, depression, panic attacks, and even at times she had thoughts of taking her own life. And maybe one of the saddest things about it was that Sherry said that even simply imagining no longer being alive would bring her this short-lived but overwhelming sense of peace.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Even more upsetting was that even after Sherry gained the courage to open up about all of these struggles, she wasn't taken seriously. I mean, not by Ruby at least. Her dad Kevin wanted her to get into therapy and wanted to help her, but Ruby said she didn't need therapy. So Sherry described her and her brother Chad being very different about their ways of coping. Sherry internalized everything.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Chad, on the other hand, acted out. And in typical narcissist fashion, Ruby saw him because of this as a troubled, deviant, and delinquent kid. She never sat back to wonder why he was doing the things that he was doing. And that is when Jodi came into the picture. According to Sherry, Ruby was just so distraught that her son had turned out the way he did, and she was desperate.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
It wasn't until after a recommendation came from a family friend for a licensed clinical mental health counselor within the LDS community that Ruby just suddenly had this change of heart about therapy. Now it was okay. So Chad started seeing Jodi regularly, and eventually Sherry would too. She talked about how from the beginning she was skeptical,
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She looked her up, she saw some bad reviews and saw people talking about her breaking up marriages and also her getting her license suspended, but none of what she had to say really ever mattered. None of it was a red flag for Ruby. The thousands of dollars that Jodi would charge people to come to her seminars and so on and so forth, that wasn't a red flag either.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And as Jodi taught, she had been chosen by God, and therefore was quote, the truth, and anyone who had something negative to say about her was simply fighting the truth. Feels very cult leader, doesn't it? So from there, Ruby began to be more enthralled with Jodi and her teachings, and that resulted in her becoming a life coach through Jodi's teachings and philosophies, through connections.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And Sherry described there being a very interesting switch in Ruby after Jodi and her teachings came into their lives. On one hand, Ruby seemed happier. She yelled less, she wasn't so easily angry. But on the other hand, her punishments became much crueler and more physically challenging as well.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And not only these key takeaways, but she really starts to shed light on the true relationship between Ruby and Jodi. And that, as a lot of people suspected, it seems as though they were romantically and physically involved with each other. So we are going to go through everything. I mean, all of it. But let me give you guys kind of just the brief rundown of this.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
It was almost as if she was happier and less visibly stressed because she genuinely started believing that the way she was acting and how she was now treating her kids was like, okay, and it was normal. So why even be bothered by it? Like it almost as though she was getting some sort of validation. Now, of course, her cruel punishments couldn't go undiscovered forever.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Ruby and the eight passengers' first ever scandal that really was the catalyst of what was to come was an infamous video where Chad slipped in that he had been sleeping on a beanbag for seven and a half months as a punishment.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And this is what really got the ball rolling on seeing this family and their constant vlogging habits as not this angelic and perfect family, but maybe more so one that was putting on a show and hiding things. CPS even got involved after all of the backlash that they got. However, no abuse was ever found and things kind of just went back to normal.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So after graduating high school and barely being 18 years old, Sherry ended up in a sticky situation that she never specifically labeled as being groomed, but I feel like one could arguably use that verbiage. This man was higher up in the church, he was married, and he was in his 40s. He would take advantage of her at her weakest moments, like in the middle of a panic attack, for example.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
He preyed on her knowing that she had nobody to talk to and knowing that she didn't feel comfortable at home. He would lure her in by reminding her that he was always going to be there for her and that he cared about her so much. He constantly ignored her request to not flirt with her, and the whole thing was just off-putting and gross. But it went on for a while.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So much, in fact, in Sherry's life that once she got a really solid therapist, you know, behind Ruby's back and paid for by the church, she was finally able to remove him from her life. Of course, she faced repercussions for her confession to the bishop, though.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Her temple recommendation was temporarily taken away, which is a huge deal in the LDS church, and the man, get this, faced not a single repercussion. Big surprise, right? Now, this was when Sherry claimed she lost trust and faith, run by men like the one taking advantage of her, but she never lost faith in God himself.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Ever since Ruby first hired Jodi to help with Chad, Jodi was a constant part of their life that only just got worse and worse. And finally, two weeks before Sherry was set to attend her freshman year at BYU, Ruby and Kevin came to her with the information that Jodi was moving into their house, more specifically, into Sherry's bedroom. And the reason for this?
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Jodi was being plagued by demons and she needed protection. I mean, insert mega eye roll, right? She would allegedly act weird and act like she was in a trance state at times, claiming to be under a spiritual attack. Then other times, she was spouting off about the end of times, which Ruby herself began preparing for. Ruby spent seemingly every waking minute with Jodi.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Kevin quickly was shoved to the side, only allowed to enter Jodi's room with permission. And other times, they would make him leave the house, and again, he could only come back to the house with their permission. Now then, here comes the juicy part. Sherry detailed that one night while she was sleeping on the couch before heading off to college, she saw Ruby sneaking out of Jodi's room.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
It was late at night, and she said that she was going back into her and Kevin's room with what she described as a very mischievous look on her face. It was clear that she was trying to sneak in there, and after seeing that, she knew deep down that something sexual was going on between Ruby and Jodi.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And then, as I mentioned, I've covered this case extensively for the last few years. So you can certainly go back and check out my deep dives. And I will link all of that in the show notes.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Another time, after leaving for college and coming back home to grab a few things, she walked into her old room, aka Jodi's new room, and she saw candles lit everywhere. She also saw massage oil and this overall like sensual aura kind of set up. She described what she saw as being quote, someone else's honeymoon suite. And the only thing missing was roses on the bed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So that was what pretty much confirmed to her that Jodi and Ruby were in a relationship. And no matter how they were defining it, because remember, keep in mind, they were both very openly homophobic and preaching about how sinful it was. And in addition to the, you know, romantic setup,
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Sherry also discovered a journal entry of Ruby's where she was frustrated about having to cater to Jodi's needs for, quote, physical affection without getting anything in return. It just feels weird, right? And then there was the fact that Ruby ended up moving out of Kevin's room and into Jodi's room, which, I mean, clearly something's going on here.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And Kevin was so brainwashed by both of them that he didn't care. And eventually, when they convinced him to spend at least a year away from the family with no contact, all so that he would have to, quote, heal himself and take Chad with him, he agreed. So this is when things seemed to be at its peak worst for many different reasons.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
The first being that by at this point, Sherry was estranged from Ruby. They argued constantly, with Ruby always making herself a victim, and in turn, Ruby using the younger siblings like pawns. She wasn't allowed to see them, she wasn't allowed to talk to them, and Ruby constantly reminded her that her siblings were scared of her or just didn't like her anymore.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
It was like Ruby knew what would hurt Sherry the most, and she went for the jugular every single time. And since she wasn't allowed to see Kevin and Chad since they weren't in the home, the younger siblings were left with Ruby, Jodi, and their insane teachings.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Neighbors would watch Ruby's house and constantly check in with Sherry to let her know how her siblings were doing, but eventually things got even scarier. They reported that Ruby left them home alone for five days while she was off with Jodi, four hours away. Four hours away from the home that she eventually moved back into. Then she took them out of school completely. She got rid of the dog.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She began packing boxes like she was moving and hoping that nobody would ever really find them. This whole time, Sherry did everything in her power to help her siblings. She called DCFS, she called them a number of times, only for the case to be closed with the same excuses as before.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Quote, According to Sherry, this was due to the newer free-range parenting laws that were signed in 2018 that essentially redefined what neglect was and made it nearly impossible for people like her to step in without an overwhelming amount of proof. Still, though, she continued calling in, and eventually some neighbors joined in as well.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And with each passing day, Sherry feared the absolute worst, especially once the whole Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case came to light. She feared that her siblings would end up just like JJ and Tylee. So eventually, the story went down as we know it, and the police raided Ruby's home and later arrested her and Jodi. Now again, I'm not going to go into the details of the horrific
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
her behavior and what Sherry's siblings endured because neither did she, and you can look that up on your own if you want. But her story ends with Ruby and Jodi being sentenced. Her siblings were in DCFS custody and her dad finally started to come out of his trance and brainwash that he had been in for so long.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Although a lot of people have criticism when it comes to Kevin and whether or not he was involved and could have put a stop to it sooner. Personally, I believe he could have. But Sherry wrote it like he was a victim too. Albeit that she did admit that he turned a blind eye and let things slide for many years.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now despite all of that, she added that she, Kevin, and Chad were all in therapy working on not only themselves individually, but their relationship with one another. And that had always been hindered because of Ruby. Kevin even moved back into the house and was working on himself to one day get custody of his kids back.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, right before this book had come out, which it just came out last week, Sherry had posted to Instagram announcing her engagement. And she also said that this is going to be the last time she speaks about her story. She says, "'I'm excited to share that I'm engaged. However, for me, this is the end of me sharing my private life.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
I've had my voice and agency taken for so long, and now I'm putting my foot down. I'm not going to talk about my wedding, my future husband, or future kids.' I'll continue to advocate for kids who didn't have a voice, so you'll still be seeing me, don't worry, but this is closure for me. I'm moving on with my life, and that is true freedom and joy.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Please respect my privacy and the privacy of my future family, and don't speculate or pry. This is my wish and my gift to my family. So like I said, I highly encourage you guys purchase the book, read it for yourself.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
I just wanted to give you guys like the high level takeaways, but the amount of strength and bravery is just unbelievable, especially for being, you know, she's a grownup, but like, she still is such a young woman. So I will link all of the deep dives into the show notes so that you can go back and listen because there are so many details about this case, guys.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Like I'm talking about Kevin and what really went down with him and Ruby when then after the arrest, he tried to file charges against his child because she had the passports and things like that. It's very, very messy. But I really wanted the focus of today's episode to be on the book and about Sherry's point of view and the big takeaways from that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So you can go back to the deep dive or if you want, just let me know and I'll do a whole like full deep dive start to finish. So it's all in one episode. Just let me know what you prefer. In any event, let's just continue to, you know, keep Sherry, her siblings and our thoughts, our prayers. Let's hope that they all begin to heal.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And, personally, I hope that Ruby and Jodi are in there way longer than the minimum of four years. I mean, they deserve it. The stuff that they put these kids through, like, Jodi literally had a safe in the bottom of her house that was, like, where she held them hostage, essentially. It's just horrific. So, they deserve the absolute worst, in my opinion.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Thank you guys so much for tuning into another episode. I will keep you updated if anything else does come from this case, but I don't expect it to. I think this was like a good closure for Sherry and go check out her book. I will also link that in the show notes. All right, thank you guys again. And until the next one, stay safe.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt became infamous figures after they were arrested in September, 2023. They were arrested for charges of aggravated child and both of the women were known for their online presence, but their personal lives and their professional practices started to reveal some very troubling behavior that quite honestly led to public outrage.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So let's start with Ruby Frankie and who she is because she was like this YouTube mega star, this mommy vlogger. You've probably heard about her at some point, even if you don't know all the details. And she really rose to fame as the matriarch of this like family focused YouTube channel called Eight Passengers.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She launched that YouTube channel in 2015, and I believe they went over like 3 million followers in that time. So the channel featured Ruby, her husband Kevin, and their six children. And what they focused on primarily was their strict Mormon lifestyle and their parenting practices. So over the years, as I mentioned, 8 Passengers amassed millions of followers.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
I mean, earning Ruby sponsorships, recognition, just so much money. However, of course, with that, as the channel grew in popularity, Ruby's parenting style started to come under fire. Because she really advocated for a strict household, this authoritarian approach, and... she oftentimes would be very transparent and vocal with her thoughts on how this should be achieved.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And it was very concerning to the viewers. I mean, just a couple examples include denying her young son food for extended periods of time, all as a form of punishment. There was one instance where at four years old, her child forgot to bring their packed lunch to school. And because of that, when the teacher called saying, is it okay to feed them? She said, no, don't feed them.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
They need to learn that they need to be responsible. Like things like that with like, I could be misspeaking. I'm sorry, four or six years old. I can't remember the exact age. Again, it's been a couple of years. Another example was forcing her child to sleep on a beanbag for months on end for behavioral correction.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
removing all privacy, removing the door from the hinges, publicly shaming her children for what she perceived as wrongdoings. I mean, the list went on and on. And these practices really sparked accusations of abuse from viewers. And it led to a pretty sharp decline in her fan base by 2021. Ruby defended her methods.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She claimed that they instilled discipline, resilience, that this was the way and the teachings that she had learned would be the most effective. But then, as people were calling her out and even making complaints and filing complaints to CPS, her fan base, like I said, just started to decline. And that's when she kind of started going off the radar.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now today's case is one that I wasn't really planning to cover, but a lot of you guys have been sending me emails and sending me requests asking me for my take on what's going on in this situation because we dove a lot into this case over the last couple of years and it's the case of Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt. Now, if you're not fully caught up on it, don't worry.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And that's also when Jodi Hildebrandt enters the scene a little bit more. Now, Jodi Hildebrandt was a licensed therapist who founded a company called Connections, Connections with an X. And Connections is a counseling service that claimed to help individuals achieve personal accountability and emotional clarity.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, if you're like me, anybody who kind of like has some sort of flowery language like that, it feels very cult-like, right? It's like spiritual enlightenment, enlightened being, all of these things. And that was no different with Connections. I'm not saying it was a cult, just my personal opinion. that it was very cultish and a lot of people were also recognizing that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, one of the main reasons for that is Jodi's methods were very controversial. She promoted such an extreme interpretation of morality, often blending Mormon principles within her counseling. So Jodi began collaborating with Ruby after Ruby's YouTube channel started facing all of that backlash.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Then together, they sort of teamed up to be this dynamic duo where they ran these workshops, these classes, all through connections. And they would preach a very rigid and very, I don't know if I would say punitive, probably like parenting philosophy, just a very like sharp and not a lot of people were aligned. But unfortunately, some people were.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now this collaboration became a platform for Ruby to really continue advocating her extreme views, despite all of the criticism that she was receiving. So people were starting to notice this.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
They were wondering what was the real dynamic going on with Jodi and Ruby, because as I mentioned, Ruby was married to Kevin, but at one point Jodi moved in to Ruby's home and then Kevin moved out, and people were just kind of wondering, like, what's really going on here?
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Social media also started shutting down at that point for Ruby, and so nobody was really able to see the condition of the children, what their spirits were, what their health was, their wellbeing, and everybody was just a little confused. But then a turning point came in September of 2023 when Ruby and Jodi were arrested.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, the reason they were arrested was because Ruby's 12-year-old son escaped from Jodi's home in Utah. Now, when the boy showed up on his neighbor's doorstep, I do not encourage you to Google that image and that video. It is heartbreaking, and it is something that will stick with you forever. But he was emaciated. He had visible injuries to him.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
He had duct tape wounds on his ankles, on his wrists. Also, there were signs of severe malnutrition. And... It was incredibly heartbreaking. And these, again, it's a visual that will literally never leave your mind. So he ran to a neighbor's house begging for food, for water, and for them to call 911. So when 911 shows up and they talk with this boy and they go over to Jodi's house and kind of
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
storm the castle which that footage you do need to see because jody on the body cam she's like flustered she has no idea what's happening she didn't even realize that he had gotten out but when they're searching her house they discover another child in a very similar condition inside jody's home and investigators revealed that ruby had left her children in jody's care for an extended period of time and really exposing them to horribly abusive conditions
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Now, like I said, that's very top line. So if you want the deep dive into all of it, I will definitely link those. But I just wanted you to kind of know a little bit of the backstory for where we're going now. So prosecutors ended up charging Ruby and Jodi with six different counts of felony charges. And the charges were supported by the children's physical injuries and their malnourishment.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
Testimony from Ruby's oldest daughter, Sherry, who had long accused her mother of horrific behavior, and evidence of extreme discipline and isolation methods that were prompted by Jodi and Ruby. Ruby's husband, Kevin Franke, was not immediately charged because he reportedly had been estranged from Ruby.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
I'm going to give a quick overview of what's going on with that case. But the reason why so many people are reaching out and asking me to talk about the updates, talk about some of the new revelations that have come out and share my thoughts on certain things is because Ruby's daughter, Sherry Frankie, has come out recently with her own book, which I just have to say, It's truly incredible.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
As I mentioned, he had moved out of the house, and according to him, he was unaware of what was really going on.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
However, his role in the family dynamic and knowledge of Ruby's parenting methods did spark public debate because people were saying, hey, look, when they had the YouTube channel and she was so vocal about all these issues and her parenting styles, he was right there alongside of her, agreeing with her. Like, he is not innocent in this in any regard. He could have definitely put a stop to it.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So once they were arrested and charged, Ruby's children were placed in state custody following the arrest, and Sherry Franke, Ruby's oldest daughter, took to social media to really celebrate the arrest, claiming that justice was finally being served. She had previously distanced herself from her family, and she had also hinted at those kinds of conditions that were happening inside the house.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
And the public response, I mean, it was overwhelmingly critical. Ruby and Jodi's parenting philosophies and the connections program were completely just like labeled and marked as harmful, manipulative, cultish, all of the things. And former fans of the 8 Passengers YouTube channel started even expressing guilt for not recognizing the signs of this horrific abuse earlier.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
while others demanded systemic changes to protect children in similar situations, and finally, hopefully, an end to family vlogging. So when the investigation started going into Jodi Hildebrandt, it revealed that her connections counseling had a history of harming clients, and that kind of puts it mildly.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
I mean, former patients accused Jodi of isolating individuals from their families by labeling their loved ones as, quote, toxic, using shame and different fear-based tactics to enforce compliance, preaching misogynistic and overly rigid ideals. And again, it just very much seems aligned with a cult. And she also was bashing anybody who... came to her or confided in her that they were gay.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
She was saying, that's not the way, this and that. And a lot of people thought it was because she was closeted and that it was like one of those thou protest too much situations. But Ruby's partnership with Jodi amplified all of these toxic principles, really creating a dangerous environment for any vulnerable individuals, including Ruby's children.
Serialously with Annie Elise
231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So ultimately Ruby was sentenced to four, one to 15 year terms in prison. And this kind of ended the whole saga. And Jodi was also sentenced to the same prison term, four different one to 15 year prison terms. And both women are serving their sentences consecutively. But according to Utah law, the maximum aggregate sentence for consecutive terms is 30 years.
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231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"
So ultimately the Utah board of pardons and parole will determine how long Ruby and Jodi will be held in prison for. We don't really know what that is because obviously four different sentences of one to 15 years, that's a pretty wide stretch, right? It could either be four years or it could be 60 years, but we know that it can't go above 30. So we'll see what that is.