Lindsey Graham
Appearances
48 Hours
A Tragic Journey
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
48 Hours
A Tragic Journey
And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
48 Hours
A Tragic Journey
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48 Hours
TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
He's the big brother, the father, the uncle. I just want to thank y'all for all the well wishes. I have never seen Spidey in any kind of altercation. I've never seen him raise his voice.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
Get back in your car. Lizzie, it's okay. I'm here now. Josh, get in your car!
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
Picture this. You're transported back in time, witnessing history unfold right before your eyes without any modern-day interruptions. That's the magic of Wondery Plus. Immerse yourself in the stories that shaped our nation with ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and exclusive bonus content.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
Meanwhile, hungry Irish families were being evicted from their small farms and losing their last hope of survival. Because rather than fund relief efforts directly, British officials tried to shift the burden to Irish landowners through taxes. Most of the landowners were wealthy Protestants or Anglo-Irish, and one-third lived outside of Ireland, overseeing their vast properties from abroad.
American History Tellers
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And specifics of the tax law meant that the fewer tenants were on the land, the less the landowners would have to pay. This incentivized mass evictions with one landlord in Roscommon taking advantage of the misery and evicting 1,500 Irish families from his land, pushing them further into helplessness. Many of those evicted from their farms fled into the city seeking relief.
American History Tellers
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In Cork, Father Theobald Matthew struggled to help the refugees who arrived daily to his parish, but his repeated letters to British officials yielded no relief. In one sent directly to Secretary Trevelyan in December 1846, Matthew concluded, "...no understanding can conceive, no tongue express the misery that prevails."
American History Tellers
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But by then, the news of the growing catastrophe was starting to spread beyond Ireland and Britain. Aseneth Nicholson was an American writer, teacher, and advocate from Vermont who had traveled to Ireland two years before the beginning of the Blight.
American History Tellers
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And as the winter of 1846 grew more dire, she witnessed the suffering of the Irish people firsthand and sounded the alarm and dispatches back to American readers.
American History Tellers
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She painted stark, vivid images of suffering from hunger and disease as she traveled the Irish countryside, writing that everywhere, in the mountainous regions, upon the seacoast and in the glens, from Dublin to the extreme south, did I daily meet these facts of hunger and suffering. Death now commenced.
American History Tellers
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The Irish themselves also described the crisis in letters to their family members in the U.S., and soon newspapers picked up on some of the accounts. And then on January 20, 1847, an Irish ship, the Hibernia, arrived in Boston Harbor carrying refugees. Their stories stunned the public and confirmed the harrowing descriptions that had been made out so far.
American History Tellers
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It was now undeniable the Irish people were facing an unprecedented famine. Two weeks later, on February 7, 1847, the new bishop for Boston's Catholic Archdiocese took up the cause in his first pastoral letter, declaring, "...a voice comes to us from across the ocean, a loud cry of her anguish has gone through the world."
American History Tellers
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He urged the public to respond, saying, And as the news spread from Boston and New York to the nation's capital, political leaders began to take up the debate over if and how to respond. The United States was in the midst of a controversial war and bitterly divided over slavery and expansion in the West. But this new crisis demanded attention and would test America's willingness to act.
American History Tellers
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American History Tellers is sponsored by Liquid IV. I'm turning 51 in a few weeks, and there's nothing I can do about that. But I do have control over my overall fitness. And since turning 50, I've lost weight, gained muscle, and have grown to really enjoy the ritual of exercise. But one thing I'm still bad at is drinking enough water.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
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American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
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American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
On February 4, 1847, former Senator Henry Clay stepped before a crowd in New Orleans and issued an urgent call to help the people of Ireland. The 70-year-old Clay described the situation as appalling and heart-rendering and urged Americans to join a generous and magnanimous effort to contribute to the relief of suffering.
American History Tellers
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Clay was a former Secretary of State and presidential nominee and co-founded the National Republican Party and the Whig Party, and even at 70 years old, maintained a prominent influence in national politics. And as far as he was concerned, support for Ireland was not only the moral thing to do, but would help strengthen America's standing and influence abroad.
American History Tellers
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Clay also reminded his fellow Americans that the Irish had stood shoulder to shoulder with them during the Revolutionary War, and that the Irish people, who are now being ravaged by hunger, were bone of our bone and flesh of our flesh. Clay's speech was reprinted in newspapers across the country, achieving his goal of bringing widespread attention to the famine in Ireland.
American History Tellers
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And soon, calls for action picked up momentum, and additional relief meetings took place in Philadelphia, New York, and Boston. There in New England, the abolitionists Harriet Beecher Stowe and William Lloyd Garrison and writers Henry David Thoreau and Emily Dickinson all joined the effort.
American History Tellers
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Even in Scullyville, Oklahoma, members of the Choctaw Nation, who had suffered their own tragedy of starvation just 16 years prior during the Trail of Tears, took up the call and gathered $170 in aid to send to Ireland. In Richmond, Virginia, black congregants of a Baptist church, some of whom were enslaved, also collected funds for the suffering Irish.
American History Tellers
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Then suddenly, the man lunges toward the wagon and tears at the canvas. But a soldier swiftly hits him in the head with his rifle, knocking him to the ground. As he falls, the canvas slips from the wagon, revealing a bed full of grain, vegetables, and oats. Oh, sir, please, these wagons, they could feed us all, keep our children alive. You stop there. Anyone else moves and we will use force.
American History Tellers
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But some of the fiercest advocates were Irish immigrants, who knew firsthand from their families back home how dire the situation had become. And by February 1847, the news was worse than ever, and these Irish immigrants called for greater action from their adopted country of the United States. But the U.S.
American History Tellers
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was one year into a war with Mexico and bitterly divided over the expansion of American territory in the West and the future of slavery. Political parties, state governments, and federal agencies all clashed over whether to take action on the Irish problem when there were so many domestic issues tearing the nation apart.
American History Tellers
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Then, on February 18, 1847, some of Boston's most prominent residents gathered at Faneuil Hall, the same place where Samuel Adams and other patriots met on the eve of the Revolutionary War. Fifty-three-year-old Edward Everett, a Unitarian pastor and the recent ambassador to Great Britain, was the key speaker.
American History Tellers
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Everett was a well-respected and influential orator, and he passionately took up Ireland's plight, calling on those in attendance to make the hall in which he spoke burn with fervor for the cause. The crowd thundered their support as he concluded, I beseech you, what you do, do quickly.
American History Tellers
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In attendance that day was Robert Bennett Forbes, a private ship captain who had retired from the sea after making a fortune in the opium trade in China. He was nearly moved to tears by Everett's speech and became determined to act. Imagine it's February 20th, 1847, in Boston, Massachusetts. You are a ship captain and a merchant from a wealthy Boston family.
American History Tellers
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You trudge through the sleet and ice, bracing your shoulders against the frigid cold. It's been just two days since you attended a meeting at Boston's Faneuil Hall, and since then, you haven't been able to forget the terrible descriptions of suffering in Ireland.
American History Tellers
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Losing two of your own children as newborns nearly destroyed you and your wife with grief, so you can't imagine watching your entire family die from hunger. But you know that's exactly what's happening in Ireland. And maybe you think there's a way you can stop it. You reach the office of your brother, who's a partner in your shipping business.
American History Tellers
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You let yourself in, and without taking your coat off, you sit down across from him, your brow furrowed. Your brother John looks off from his work, confused and concerned. Robert, you look troubled. What's on your mind? Remember when we took that cargo to China in record time? Even though many said it could not be done, or even should not be done. Yes, I recall.
American History Tellers
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I also recall we were nearly swept out to sea, attacked by pirates. I believe you were even put under arrest. Yes, I was. But John, I am captured now by the thoughts of the Irish. My body and soul have not been at rest since the meeting at Faneuil Hall. People in Ireland are suffering. They're dying. Well, it is troubling indeed, but what are we to do about it?
American History Tellers
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I believe we should organize a relief effort, and it must be done quickly. Fine, but who will you get to donate? People in Boston are generous, to be sure, but meeting the needs of an entire nation... That would require raising money on a scale that's not yet been attempted. Yes, but it's not money I'm thinking of. That's what most aid efforts have given.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and experience American history like never before. Imagine it's December 1846 in Cork County, Ireland. You stagger through bare, desolate hills, shivering against bitter cold. You're the mother of five young children and a farmer, or at least you used to be, until all your crops failed in a blight that swept the countryside.
American History Tellers
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But the price of food in England is rising, and the dollar won't go as far. Instead, I believe we should ask people to give food. Many would part with a few bushels of grain rather than open their pocketbook. Oh, but Robert, the food would need to be collected and stored and loaded and then transported. Yes, it will. Your brother looks at you with confusion. You can't be suggesting we do it.
American History Tellers
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You know very well we have no ship in our books fit for that kind of voyage. Perhaps not, but there are Navy ships presently at the docks, nearly ready for use. One could be loaded with food and taken to the suffering people in Ireland. Oh, but wait a moment. In case you forgot, there's a war going on. The military needs those vessels. Surely the Navy can spare one ship for a situation this dire.
American History Tellers
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This cargo is going to the port. But we're starving here, in front of you. You only have yourselves to blame. Blame us all you want, but you have the power to save us. From the port, all this food will cross the ocean, won't it? To Liverpool, yes, and then to the markets in England, as it should. You step closer, holding your frail daughter up for the officer to see. Just a basket, sir.
American History Tellers
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Your brother sits back in his seat and eyes you, his look serious. Okay, well, let's say you can get a vessel and fill it with goods. Who will you get to captain the ship, or should I guess? You can guess, but I'll tell you. It'll be me. Didn't you promise your wife not to take on any more voyages? Your last nearly drove her to a nervous breakdown.
American History Tellers
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She will understand, because, John, this is something I must do. You can see a look of concern on your brother's face, and then it softens. Well, if you're that determined, I can't stop you, can I? You jump to your feet. No, you cannot. I'm going to draft a letter to the mayor's office before the end of the day, so please start getting the paperwork together.
American History Tellers
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Because mark my words, if we have to move heaven and earth, we will see this through. Just days after the meeting in Boston, Robert Forbes drafted a letter to the mayor with an unusual proposal. He wanted to use an American naval ship to bring food and supplies directly to the people of Ireland. And to ensure the success of the mission, Forbes offered to captain the ship himself.
American History Tellers
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Boston's mayor, familiar with Forbes' reputation, forwarded the plan to the governor. And within days, it was brought before Congress and found a receptive audience. Forbes was not alone in his zeal, and soon his proposal was joined by a plan from Kentucky Senator John Crittenden to devote half a million dollars, or one percent of the federal budget, to help the Irish with the famine.
American History Tellers
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This measure cleared the Senate on February 26, but opposition to the bill in the House was shaping up to be formidable. Though most lawmakers recognized the suffering that the Irish were enduring, the extent of the expenditure and the unusual proposal sparked broad criticism. Some argued that Congress could not use public funds to aid a foreign nation.
American History Tellers
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One senator from Virginia vowed to vote against the measure, calling it a perversion of the trust reposed in me under the Constitution of the United States. Others warn that the move, though well-intended, could risk setting a precedent for future conflicts in more unpopular nations.
American History Tellers
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Still others call it hypocrisy, noting that people were also suffering in other countries like Prussia and France, and no aid was headed their way.
American History Tellers
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Senator Crittenden tried to rescue the bill, assuring his fellow senators that the gesture would be a powerful symbol, saying, Can you imagine any spectacle more sublime than that of one nation holding out the hand which is full of plenty to the suffering people of another nation? He insisted that the move would create a common brotherhood that would bind nations together.
American History Tellers
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But his efforts were not enough. The House defeated the funding bill. But supporters believed they had one more chance. Congress was nearing the end of its session, and if they could strip the request for funding and instead focus on Forbes' proposal to use a Navy ship to bring direct aid, they might still have a chance.
American History Tellers
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They made a final push, and on March 3, 1847, Congress approved the measure, along with a similar proposal for an aid ship from New York. Two days later, President James Polk signed off on the deal. Captain Robert Forbes immediately went into action, calling for donations, gathering a private crew, and preparing for voyage. He had chosen the U.S. Navy vessel at the USS Jamestown for the journey.
American History Tellers
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This battleship was more than 150 feet long and rose three decks high. And on the first day of preparations, its cannons were removed and more than 1,000 barrels of food and 20 barrels of clothing were placed on board. Many of the workers who loaded the goods were Irish immigrants themselves and worked around the clock without wages, determined to help their families back home.
American History Tellers
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As these crews readied the Jamestown for departure, Forbes wrote a flurry of letters to officials in London and Ireland, hoping to ease the distribution of aid and speed up the bureaucratic maze of customs once he arrived. British officials met the news of an aid shipment with a mix of relief and anxiety.
American History Tellers
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Just for the children, I beg you. When the man sees the child in your arms, his eyes soften, but then his jaw clenches with resolve. No, ma'am, but you may try the next convoy. By then we will all be dead. I pray that won't be the case. He glances at you one last time, then pushes you aside as the wagons begin to move forward again.
American History Tellers
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They knew that the offer of provisions would lessen the burden of the famine, but it would also shine a light on their inability to successfully deal with a crisis on their own. But despite ambivalence, the British agreed to accept the aid. Now, Forbes knew that the Jamestown would have to be outfitted, caulked, and loaded in record time.
American History Tellers
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Aware that even minor delays might cost lives, Forbes readied for the voyage across the ocean in a race against hunger.
American History Tellers
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By March 1847, Father Theobald Matthew's efforts to fight the rising tide of death and hunger in Cork, Ireland, had left him battling despair and exhaustion. He estimated that there were now more than 10,000 people crowding the city's streets looking for food and shelter, a number that was double that of just one month before. Adding to the misery was a brutally cold winter.
American History Tellers
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Matthew wrote, I am in horror whilst I walk the streets and I return to my besieged dwelling in sadness and hopelessness. His despondency was understandable. Three months earlier, in January of 1847, British lawmakers in London had passed the Temporary Relief Act, finally promising to open soup kitchens in the hardest-hit areas of Ireland. But so far, not a single bowl of soup had been served.
American History Tellers
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Instead, Charles Trevelyan, the Assistant Secretary of Treasury, directed British officials in Ireland to spend weeks building an office, developing tracking cards, and finding ways to deter what he expected would be cheating from the starving Irish recipients of food aid. Trevelyan also insisted on only serving food that was cooked so that the Irish couldn't steal it and sell it later.
American History Tellers
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But as Trevelyan and other British officials stalled, Father Matthew stepped up his own efforts at his parish soup kitchen, relying on donations as well as money from his own savings to feed 5,000 to 6,000 people every week. But still it wasn't enough. Every day, more starving and sick people arrived from the countryside, and Matthew was called to preside over dozens of funerals.
American History Tellers
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During March and April of 1847, he buried as many as 36 bodies a day. This death toll meant that new refugees to Cork awoke to the constant buzz of the lumber mill, where planks for coffins were being cut day and night. These mills also cut lumber for sheds meant to shelter those suffering from a fever that was sweeping through the weakened and malnourished population.
American History Tellers
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But as the soldiers hurry away, a sack falls off the back of one of the wagons. A neighbor picks it up and kindly scoops some oats into your hands. You thank him, knowing that two of his children died last week from hunger and fever. With this kind gesture, you may be spared another day. But without more food, you're all doomed. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
The sawmills also provided wood for the building of more ships for those lucky few who could scrape together funds and were healthy enough to set sail for England, Canada, and the U.S. to flee the misery. All across Ireland, the suffering accelerated, with March 1847 becoming the deadliest month of the entire famine.
American History Tellers
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American writer Asenith Nicholson, who had gathered private donations from New York and was providing what limited aid she could, witnessed the grim scenes from her apartment in Dublin, writing after the fact, "...my bedroom overlooked the burying ground. I often arose to look at it, that some haggard father was bringing a dead child, lashed to his back."
American History Tellers
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leaving him to the mercy of whoever might find it a grave. An English volunteer was shocked to watch people dying like cattle around him and witnessed others clawing the bark from tree trunks to eat or walking along the shoreline like ghosts looking for seaweed to cook. He wrote back to England declaring, "...the whole country is one vast tomb."
American History Tellers
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Across the Atlantic Ocean on March 28, 1847, Captain Robert Bennett Forbes finally departed from Boston Harbor on the American naval ship USS Jamestown. The relief goods on board made the ship so heavy it dropped several feet below the waterline and soon began to leak.
American History Tellers
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But Forbes directed his crew to keep the vessel sailing as fast as possible even as ice began to cover the decks and freezing wind lashed the sails. On April 8, 1847, ten days into the journey, the first fair weather broke over the ocean, and Forbes was able to increase speed.
American History Tellers
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A week later, on April 12, the Jamestown arrived on Ireland's south coast, and the next day, a tug pulled the ship into Cork's inner harbor. When Forbes and the crew of the Jamestown reached Port in the evening, they were stunned to see thousands of people lining the wharves, weeping and cheering. A band played Yankee Doodle and church bells rang out from the hills.
American History Tellers
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It was like nothing Forbes had seen before. Imagine it's April 14th, 1847, in Cork County, Ireland, and you're standing outside the American consul's office in the city.
American History Tellers
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Your eyes are red and your shoulders stooped with exhaustion, but you've taken a rare break from your duties serving your congregants at the parish soup kitchen to play host to an honored guest, an American captain who has recently arrived into the harbor bringing a ship laden with aid.
American History Tellers
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You were nearly brought to tears by the miraculous sight of the ship, and now you're eager to express your gratitude." Captain, it's an honor to welcome you to Cork. Please, follow me inside. You must be exhausted from your journey. Here, take a seat. Everyone is excited to see you. Thank you, Father. I must admit, their enthusiasm is a bit overwhelming. We've seen so much misery.
American History Tellers
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Your arrival, it's like a dream. It's still hard to believe. But certainly, you're the answer to our prayers. "'Well, I wish I could have been here sooner. But I assure you, Father, I've traveled on behalf of the people of America who are determined to help. And we couldn't be more grateful, Captain. But I regret to inform you that the situation still grows worse every day.
American History Tellers
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While you were at sea, our bishop here in Cork died. And right at this moment, the mayor is in bed fighting for his life. Both of them were hoping to greet you in person, but struck by the fever like thousands of others. Well, now that I've arrived, Father, I understand.' I've read reports of this situation, but what I've seen the past few days is far worse than anything I could have imagined.
American History Tellers
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Indeed, it must come as a shock. And there's one more thing I hesitate to bring up, but I feel I must. Well, go on. Distribution will soon become a pressing issue for all of us. Outside of Cork, some have started to request a share of the aid that you've brought, and even demand it. You must understand that the need is great here in the city, enough to consume everything on your ship.
American History Tellers
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But the rest of the country suffers as well. Yes, I see. Well then, let this be but the first of many arrivals to your shore. And let it be a symbol of our friendship and our commitment. You clasp the captain's hands in yours. It's clear that he's still shocked by the reality of the situation here in Cork, but you sense a genuine friendship in his demeanor.
American History Tellers
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Even more than the goods at the port, you realize that the arrival of his ship means that for the first time in months, there is reason to hope. Soon after his arrival in Cork, Captain Forbes met with Father Theobald Matthew at the American consulate. Matthew praised Forbes for the friendship and goodwill that the Americans were displaying.
American History Tellers
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American History Tellers
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The Jamestown brought 800 tons of life-saving food and supplies, including corn, wheat, rice, and meat. But while Matthew and other local officials could see that the aid Forbes had brought was generous, they also knew it would not be enough to meet the needs of all the hungry residents in the areas surrounding the city.
American History Tellers
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Soon disputes erupted about how best to divide the aid among the numerous towns and villages in need, and eventually it was agreed that the food would be taken in boats to coastal villages and divided throughout County Cork. Once the provisions had been unloaded and were bound for needy communities, Forbes knew it was time to return home.
American History Tellers
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On April 22, 1847, the Jamestown departed from Ireland, arriving safely back in Boston three weeks later on May 16th. and Forbes' return was met with jubilation. His journey had proved that Americans, once motivated for a cause, could come together and their government could act quickly to marshal its resources and respond to a crisis.
American History Tellers
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So Forbes' mission was only the beginning of America's response to the Irish famine. For the rest of 1847, 114 more ships left for Ireland, distributing crucial aid to cities and towns throughout the island. And dozens more continued the following year as the famine persisted. Meanwhile, though, British officials continued to stumble.
American History Tellers
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In the summer of 1847, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Charles Trevelyan moved to close all government-funded soup kitchens, despite three million Irish still depending upon them for survival. Once again, he blamed the Irish for their own suffering, saying, It is my opinion that too much has been done for the people.
American History Tellers
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Under such treatment, they have grown worse instead of better, and we must now try to see what individual exertion can do. American writer Asenith Nicholson remained in Ireland until 1848, helping victims of the famine and writing about her experiences.
American History Tellers
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When the time came for her to depart, she declared, Never again will the emaciated fingers of a starving child be linked in supplication for a bit of bread as I pass in the busy street, though the painful visions will forever haunt me. Her book, Annals of the Famine in Ireland, published in New York in 1851, would become the most in-depth documentation of the famine by an American.
American History Tellers
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The Irish famine would continue through the mid-1850s. In the end, more than one-third of the nation perished or emigrated, seeking new lives abroad, with more than half a million arriving in American cities, greatly reshaping the places they settled, including Boston, where Captain Robert Bennett Forbes continued to work as a successful merchant.
American History Tellers
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He considered his role in bringing aid to Ireland one of the most important acts of his life, calling it a great privilege and a beautiful mission, which is to be remembered by us and our children with feelings of satisfaction until time is no more. In 1995, to mark the 150th anniversary of the famine, Ireland's President Mary Robinson visited America and acknowledged the vital aid that the U.S.
American History Tellers
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provided in her country's time of need, calling it a reminder of the hope of solidarity and a shared humanity. From Wondery, this has been a special episode of American History Tellers on the Irish Famine Relief Mission. On the next episode, in 1866, Congress creates six new all-Black Army regiments, and for the first time, Black men have a permanent place in the U.S. military.
American History Tellers
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These men, known as Buffalo Soldiers, are sent west to make way for America's rapid expansion, and will have to fight fierce battles against the elements, American Indian warriors, and the prejudice of their own army. If you like American history tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. If you'd like to learn more about America's response to the Irish famine, we recommend Voyage of Mercy by Stephen Puglio and Black Potatoes, the Story of the Great Irish Famine by Susan Campbell Bartoletti.
American History Tellers
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American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bond. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Dorian Marina, edited and produced by Alita Rosansky, managing producer Desi Blaylock, senior managing producer Callum Plews, senior producer Andy Herman.
American History Tellers
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Executive producers are Jenny Lauer-Beckman, Marsha Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes.
American History Tellers
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And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. On our show, we'll take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped America and Americans. Our values, our struggles, and our dreams. We'll put you in the shoes of everyday people as history was being made.
American History Tellers
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And we'll show you how the events of the times affected them, their families, and affects you now. By the early 1800s, small waves of Irish immigrants had arrived in America, fanning out across the eastern states, establishing communities in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Maine. Over the next 40 years, they put down roots, becoming merchants, laborers, and church leaders.
American History Tellers
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But by 1846, Irish families in America began to hear disturbing reports from their homeland. Winter that year had been cold and harsh, and the all-important potato crop, which most Irish peasants depended upon for survival, was failing for a second year in a row. A blight was ravaging the potato, devastating the countryside and driving desperate families into the cities in search of food.
American History Tellers
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Without an alternative to the potato, famine spread all across Ireland, and in just a few years, more than one million Irish would perish from starvation and disease, while many more would flee their homeland forever. In the midst of this horror and despair, British officials who governed Ireland failed to provide relief. Instead, vital assistance would come from much further away.
American History Tellers
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After hearing news of the blight, sympathetic Americans took up the call and organized relief missions to bring food and supplies across the Atlantic, directly to the shores of Ireland. In March 1847, the first of these voyages departed from Boston, carrying hundreds of barrels of food and aid.
American History Tellers
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Many of the goods were donated by ordinary citizens, farmers, shopkeepers, and immigrants, who all gave generously to help a people an ocean away. But this massive undertaking required unprecedented coordination between the public and the U.S. government and sparked a fierce debate in the nation's capital over the role of government in humanitarian aid for foreign nations.
American History Tellers
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The relief missions that eventually departed would not only serve to strengthen the unique bond between Ireland and the U.S., but set a precedent for America's growing role in the world for many decades to come. This is a special episode of American History Tellers on the Irish Famine Relief Mission, Ship of Hope.
American History Tellers
The Irish Famine Relief Mission | Ship of Hope | 1
In July 1846, Father Theobald Matthew rode by horse from the city of Cork on the southern coast of Ireland to Dublin. Along the way, he felt his spirits lift when he saw fields full of thriving potato plants. The 56-year-old Catholic priest was a tireless advocate for Ireland's poor farmers and a well-known figure in the countryside.
American History Tellers
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Born in Tipperary, just north of Cork, to a family of 12 children, Matthew was ordained when he was 24 and had spent most of his life serving the residents of Cork.
American History Tellers
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Over the years, he developed a reputation for his commitment to his parishioners, learning Gaelic in order to deliver sermons, and keeping his chapel open late at night in order to allow farmers to make confession after their long days in the fields. A decade earlier, when a cholera epidemic swept through Cork, he had administered to the sick and dying, even as the illness spread around him.
American History Tellers
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And when conditions improved, he watched his parishioners return to their fields, struggling to recover their livelihoods on small plots of land. Matthew knew they depended on their crops, especially the potato, to survive. And in recent years, some parts of the country had been hit hard by a blight that wiped out crops and cut into the harvest.
American History Tellers
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All around you, fields are choked by stinking, rotten potato vines destroyed by disease. Hunger is gnawing at your stomach, but your primary concern is your children, who haven't had a decent meal in weeks. You clutch your two-year-old daughter to your thin chest while your older children try to keep up, shuffling along the road. Their blank eyes terrify you.
American History Tellers
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So when he saw on his way to Dublin that the potato crops appeared healthy and abundant, he was relieved. As he rode through the countryside, he started to compose his next sermon, giving thanks for the blessing. But less than a week later, on August 3rd, during his return trip to Cork, Matthew was shocked to see the same fields blackened by blight.
American History Tellers
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He began to fear the worst, later writing that he beheld with sorrow one wide waste of putrefying vegetation, and saw along the road the wretched people seated on the fences of their decaying gardens, wringing their hands and wailing bitterly against the destruction that had left them foodless.
American History Tellers
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So when he arrived back in Cork, he wasted no time in warning British officials of the emergency, declaring the food of a whole nation has perished. Since 1801, Ireland had been governed directly from London after England abolished the Irish Parliament and put down an attempted rebellion. In the following decades, the Irish had gained some limited rights, such as voting in municipal elections.
American History Tellers
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But in 1846, the English still held firm control over the economic, military, and political affairs, including humanitarian relief. From Father Matthew's view, now that the blight had taken hold, only the resources of the Crown could alleviate the suffering. And after some initial skepticism, newspapers in England began to echo his worry with dire reports.
American History Tellers
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The Times of London observed that crop failure had spread across the entirety of Ireland. From the Giant's Causeway to Cape Clear, from Limerick to Dublin, not a green field is to be seen. And by September 2nd, 1846, the Times concluded that the Irish potato crop had suffered total annihilation. For generations, the potato served Irish farmers as their primary form of sustenance.
American History Tellers
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It was easy to grow and store, and provided good nutrition for poor families who had few other options, helping to grow Ireland's population. But the crop was also vulnerable to disease, especially a black fungus known as the blight, which spread quickly in Ireland's damp weather.
American History Tellers
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So as the winter of 1846 arrived, and conditions in the countryside only grew worse, more hungry and desperate farmers fled to Irish cities along the coast, including Father Matthew's parish in Cork. Daily, he was called to minister to the sick and dying, and to help find housing and food for the starving.
American History Tellers
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He was frustrated that since his initial warning, British officials had taken no action, and he began to fear that catastrophe lay ahead. Imagine it's December 20th, 1846, in London. You're an inspector in England's Treasury Department. But for the last month, you've been in Ireland, where you were sent to review conditions on the ground there.
American History Tellers
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You worked diligently, recording the widespread suffering from the hunger and illness you witnessed, and then reported back. But your reports have failed to spur any action. Now that you've returned to England, you're hoping to change that. As you enter the main offices of the Treasury, you can tell you've caught the staff by surprise.
American History Tellers
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A lavish spread of roasted goose, mince pies, and bottles of wine cover a table in the corner. A clerk recognizes you and invites you to join their holiday party, but you wave him away and head for the door of the office of the Assistant Treasury Secretary, the man you came to see. Mr. Trevelyan, good afternoon, sir. Trevelyan looks up from his desk, surprised and annoyed.
American History Tellers
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"'Ah, I hadn't realized you'd returned. Please, take a seat. That won't be necessary, because I will be brief. I understand you've rejected the calls for relief in Ireland?' "'That's correct.' "'But surely you've received my latest reports. Thousands have already died. Many more are in danger. The bishop has warned that the worst is yet to come.'
American History Tellers
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Yes, I am aware, but I believe your sentimentality is getting in the way of your perspective. My sentimentality, sir? Yes, I don't intend to use the precious funds of Her Majesty's Treasury to aid a foreign people. Well, sir, if we can't aid them directly, might we impose price controls, make food more affordable for the Irish who so desperately need it?
American History Tellers
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You hear wagon wheels draw nearer, and you raise your eyes in hope. Some of your neighbors, just as desperate as you, begin to gather, blocking the narrow road, as three wagons roll toward you, covered in thick canvas sheets and guarded by six British soldiers with rifles. They roll to a stop, and a commander steps forward. You're blocking an official transport carrying the goods of Her Majesty.
American History Tellers
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Disrupt the food market and threaten the financial ruin of our own grain traders? No, I have heard directly from London businessmen who have warned me not to act so rashly. Then simple charity at the very least. Send our excess of flour, our cornmeal. Sir, we are talking about starving families with mothers and children. Trevelyan shifts in his chair. I've heard enough.
American History Tellers
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God has sent this calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, and it must not be mitigated. They must work to rise above their station, earn wages to purchase their own food on the open market. You stand still, stunned by the secretary's position, and you can see that your visit will do no more good. Well, very well. God forgive us for what's to come. You turn and stalk out of the office.
American History Tellers
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You've devoted your career to your service in the British government and are proud of your work, but you feel ashamed that you've been unable to respond to this latest crisis. And now, if there's anything to be done to help the people of Ireland, you understand it must come from somewhere else other than the British government.
American History Tellers
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As conditions in Ireland grew worse, England sent inspectors to monitor the deteriorating conditions. Many of them were shocked at the horrors they found. One inspector, sent to County Sligo in the northwest of Ireland, wrote back to London pleading for action, saying, I assure you that unless something is immediately done, the people will die. Pray do something for them.
American History Tellers
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Let me beg you attend to this. The man who received these reports was Charles Trevelyan, the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the British government and the person in charge of relief for Ireland. Trevelyan had made his name as an efficient and loyal official in the East India Trading Company posted in Delhi, and upon his return to England, he was promoted to the Treasury Department.
American History Tellers
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There, Trevelyan practiced moralism, a popular ideology in Victorian England which insisted on individualism and self-reliance. This belief helped guide his policy of denying direct aid, and instead requiring those in need to sign up for a work program to earn wages.
American History Tellers
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But the pay was low, and many of the projects Irish workers were assigned to turned out to be redundant or wasteful, especially in regions where transportation and trade had ground to a halt because of the crisis. One Irish writer observed, women with infant children could be seen breaking stone for bridges where there was no water, or for roads that led nowhere and benefited no one.
American History Tellers
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Still, Trevelyan refused to budge, going so far as to blame the blight on the Irish's Catholic faith and what he called a lack of initiative. He believed it was Britain's responsibility to foster the transition to modernity and reason, even at the cost of great suffering. And Trevelyan was not alone in this philosophy.
American History Tellers
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Newly elected Prime Minister John Russell supported the position that England should not lend direct assistance to the Irish. In the fall of 1846, Russell feared an economic crisis in Britain due to grain shortages in Europe and a looming trade deficit.
American History Tellers
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He responded to the mounting crisis in Ireland by restricting relief, warning that if the government were to apply the resources of the Treasury for the purchase of food in foreign countries, all trade would be disturbed. As a result, the starving Irish were forced to look on as wagons loaded with produce for export traveled through the countryside protected by armed guards.
American History Tellers
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This food was then taken to English markets and, in some cases, even returned to Ireland to be resold at higher prices. In the midst of this crisis, one limerick merchant recorded more than 387,000 barrels of oats and 46,000 barrels of wheat leaving port destined for England. Desperate residents responded in anger.
American History Tellers
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Clear the road! But no one moves, and you step forward tentatively. Sir, may we know what is in the wagons? Commander fixes a harsh gaze in your direction. Ma'am, this is an official convoy and that is all you need to know. As I said, clear the road. Oh, sir, have mercy on us. Our field is just over that hill, and it's now also where my husband is buried. We've had no harvest this year or last.
American History Tellers
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At a port near Cork, violence erupted as people tried to seize a boat filled with oats. And at Dungarvan, on the southeast coast of Ireland, British soldiers beat back residents who were clamoring for food and shot into a crowd, killing two people and wounding even more. Afterwards, the British sent Navy escorts to safely transport the food out of Ireland.
American History Tellers
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Hey, history buffs, if you can't get enough of the captivating stories we uncover on American History Tellers, you'll love the exclusive experience of Wondery Plus. Dive even deeper into the past with ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and bonus content that brings history to life like never before.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | Suffering in Silence | 4
McCord steps forward and slaps Howard across the face. He stumbles, nearly losing his balance. You steady him and then turn back to McCord, clenching your fists. You feel the heat of the squad's stares.
American History Tellers
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Now, while it was novel for West Point to receive Black cadets, it was absolutely unheard of for these Black cadets to find themselves at West Point. This was a very new environment for them. What was it like? Where did they live? Where did they eat? How was their life on campus?
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McCord reaches into the pocket where he stashed his knife.
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And I would imagine silencing, a tradition of abuse ingrained at West Point, is the least of it. We know that they faced all sorts of different abuse.
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You're about to respond when Howard grabs you by the elbow and steers you away from a cord and out of the shop.
American History Tellers
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You're describing a West Point that is largely at war with itself and the changing times. These Black cadets felt the brunt of this war, of course, but I also wonder what was happening at the top. Those officers and administrators that are able to witness and make decisions, what did they do to perhaps address the racism and attacks on Black cadets?
American History Tellers
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Howard drags you away, and you reluctantly fall into step behind him. But you're already making plans to appeal to your superiors. You feel that if you don't take steps to stand up to bigotry now, your classmates will make the next four years a living nightmare.
American History Tellers
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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and embark on an unparalleled journey through America's most pivotal moments. Imagine it's June 7th, 1870, in West Point, New York. Two weeks have passed since you arrived at the U.S. Military Academy to prepare for your entrance exams.
American History Tellers
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So it very well could be said that James Webster Smith paved the way for Henry O. Flipper and all other Black cadets that followed to be successful in terms of just reducing the amount of abuse and violence to be endured.
American History Tellers
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So, of course, though, we did have the first Black cadet to graduate, Henry O. Flipper, but tell us a little bit about the ones who followed in his footsteps.
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So that was the third graduate, Charles Young, who graduated in 1889. But the fourth graduate... did not graduate into 1936, a large gap.
American History Tellers
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From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers, our history, your story. In the spring of 1870, James Webster Smith and Michael Howard arrived at West Point, New York with the hopes of becoming the first black cadets in the history of the U.S. military academy. They quickly became targets of harassment.
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When then did the fate of Black West Point cadets finally change?
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Lieutenant Colonel Rory McGovern, thank you so much for joining me on American History Tellers. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to be here. That was my conversation with Lieutenant Colonel Rory McGovern. The book that he co-edited, Race, Politics, and Reconstruction, The First Black Cadets at Old West Point, is available now from the University of Virginia Press.
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And a note, the views Lieutenant Colonel McGovern expressed in this interview are his own and do not represent the views or official positions of the United States Military Academy or the United States Army. From Wondery, this is the fourth and final episode of our series on the Buffalo Soldiers for American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
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In our next season, we're bringing you an encore presentation of our series, The Fight for Women's Suffrage. In 1920, the ratification of the 19th Amendment guaranteed all women in America the right to vote. But the battle for women's suffrage began much earlier, in a little church in upstate New York in 1848.
American History Tellers
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To celebrate Women's History Month, we'll trace the story of that 70-year struggle and three generations of activists who risked violence, arrest, and even death for the right to cast a ballot. If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | Suffering in Silence | 4
Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bogg. Music by Lindsey Graham. Voice acting by Ace Anderson. Additional writing by Ellie Stanton.
American History Tellers
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This episode was produced by Polly Stryker and Alita Rozanski. Our senior interview producer is Peter Arcuni. Managing producer, Desi Blaylock. Senior managing producers, Callum Plews. Senior producer, Annie Herman. And executive producers are Jenny Lauer-Veckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
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In June, a white candidate named Robert McCord struck Howard for not moving out of his way as he entered a boot black shop. Howard and Smith reported the incident up the chain of command, but West Point officials concluded that they had exaggerated their claims in an effort to cause trouble.
American History Tellers
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After this and several other incidents, Howard failed his entrance exam and returned home, leaving Smith to enter the academy alone. His time there was marked by isolation, abuse, and injustice.
American History Tellers
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To discuss the integration of West Point during Reconstruction, I'm joined by Lieutenant Colonel Rory McGovern, an associate professor in the Department of History at West Point and the co-author of Race, Politics, and Reconstruction, The First Black Cadets at Old West Point. Lieutenant Colonel Rory McGovern, welcome to American History Tellers. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
American History Tellers
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Let's begin our conversation on June 14th, 1877. It's graduation day at West Point, but it's a special graduation, the graduation of Henry Ossian Flipper. Set the stage for us. What was this day like?
American History Tellers
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Well, let's talk about everything he had been through and go back a few years to when Flipper arrived at West Point in 1873. I guess let's start with what was the state of the Academy in the wake of the Civil War?
American History Tellers
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You and the rest of your squad of prospective cadets are waiting for your turn to have your shoes shined in a crowded boot black shop. You and your roommate, Michael Howard, the only other black candidate, stand in the doorway at the back of the line. Behind you, a white candidate named McCord wanders back and forth on the porch.
American History Tellers
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And how did West Point react to the growing wave of integration in education?
American History Tellers
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Well, let's talk more about these first cadets. How did West Point begin to admit them? Were the criteria for their admission the same for white candidates?
American History Tellers
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You lock eyes with him as he uses a pocket knife to scrape dried mud off his boots. His stare is menacing, but you refuse to avert your gaze. He puts his knife in his pocket and walks towards you, his shoulder slamming into Howard's as he pushes his way into the shop. Move. Howard says nothing. You tap McCord on the shoulder.
American History Tellers
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And you've seen the exam that West Point used at the time. If perhaps West Point knew that Black cadets were coming in, was there any indication at all that these exams or admission procedures at all were changed for these cadets to perhaps root them out?
American History Tellers
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So then at long last, we have our first Black cadet admitted to West Point. This is a long experience and a very difficult one for these men. They have to be nominated, then admitted, and then they have to endure several years of mistreatment and rigorous classes, and then they actually have to graduate. In total, how many completed this gauntlet?
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What did you just say? Howard shakes his head fiercely, silently warning you to be quiet. But you can't help yourself.
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As we explore the triumphs and tragedies that shaped America, we're always striving to paint a vivid, nuanced picture of the past. And with Wondery+, you can experience that vision in its purest form. Enjoy ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and exclusive bonus content that illuminates the human stories behind the history.
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That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition. Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day.
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Because when you feed your pet Hills, you help feed a shelter pet, which makes them healthy, happy, and more adoptable, changing their life forever so they can change yours. Over 14 million shelter pets fed and adopted. Science did that. Visit hillspet.com slash podcast to learn more. So I'm interested in life on the railroad. We know the work was hard and grueling and sometimes dangerous.
American History Tellers
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You think they're going to get in the picture too? How should I know? They'll do whatever they want, I suppose. Well, they ought to be in the picture. They do the most dangerous work and get paid less than us too. I guess go invite them, but you'll lose out on a good spot. Your friend starts climbing up the side of one of the engines, eager to get a more prominent place in the photograph.
American History Tellers
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But what was life like in the camps along the line as it stretched from Sacramento to Utah?
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So it was grueling, grueling work. So it sounds like the Chinese lived a very Chinese life, or as much as they could in a very foreign land. What was their work like? How did it compare to the other white workers?
American History Tellers
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You look back and see the photographer's assistant, ushering the Chinese workers further away from the group. You want to say something, but you're also afraid you'll lose your place. So you scramble up next to your friend, and just as you manage to find your footing, you hear a loud pop and see the flash of a photographer's bolt.
American History Tellers
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You mentioned that the Chinese laborers were good at teamwork and worked well within their gangs. But one thing that was interesting to me that we learned in our series was that Chinese workers not only were good at teamwork— but were perhaps also good teamsters. They went on strike in 1867 to protest the conditions in the Sierras. What did these striking workers want, and did they get it?
American History Tellers
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We've mentioned a few times Summit Camp and Summit Tunnel and how difficult the work there was. You've been there. And while we tried to convey the conditions in our series, there's nothing quite like visiting the site yourself. I'd love for you to give us an idea of what this tunnel is, the scale and scope of it. And why is there a wall between two tunnels called China Wall?
American History Tellers
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American History Tellers
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Now, one of the obvious and unfortunate consequences of the hard work these laborers were performing are accidents and deaths. It's estimated that over a thousand Chinese laborers died building the railroad. But when their bodies could be recovered, what happened to them? They were a long way from home. They were a long way from home.
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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and see American history through a whole new lens. Imagine it's a sunny, warm afternoon on May 10, 1869, and you're standing on the summit of a large hill near Promontory, Utah. You shield your eyes from the midday sun as you and dozens of your fellow railroad workers toast in celebration.
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American History Tellers
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American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
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American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
So far, we've focused our conversation on the Chinese laborers as they worked on the railroad. But in 1869, the work ended. The railroad was completed. What happened to the thousands of Chinese men who had worked so hard to get it done?
American History Tellers
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American History Tellers is sponsored by Audible, whose best of 2024 picks are here. Discover the year's top audiobooks and originals in all your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full-cast production of George Orwell's 1984,
American History Tellers
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We started our conversation with a look at the 1869 photograph of the hammering of the golden spike at Promontory Point. There was another photograph recreating the scene in 2014 from a photographer named Corky Lee. What happened in this rendition?
American History Tellers
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And he wasn't the only one interested in correcting the record in 2014. The U.S. Department of Labor moved to set the record straight as well. What did the federal government do to recognize these Chinese laborers?
American History Tellers
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hard-felt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one, the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hanna and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive title James, or a personal pick of mine, Malcolm Gladwell's latest audiobook, Revenge of the Tipping Point. Find a new favorite and get listening with Audible because there's more to imagine when you listen.
American History Tellers
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Your co-editor of Voices from the Railroad is historian Connie Young-Yu, and she is the descendant of a Chinese railroad worker herself. We have a clip talking about her great-grandfather, Li Wong-Sang, who worked for the Central Pacific Railroad.
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She talks about being asked to speak at the 150th anniversary at Promontory Point in 2019, when the Chinese contribution was finally recognized, as you know. Here it is.
American History Tellers
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Go to audible.com slash tellers and discover all the year's best waiting for you. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. On May 10, 1869, the Transcontinental Railroad was finally completed.
American History Tellers
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I'd love to hear your reflections on what Kai said and just what it meant to you.
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You mentioned earlier the state of disrepair that the more modern concrete snowsheds have fallen into, and I know you are involved in trying to preserve Summit Camp as a whole, adjacent to the tunnels. What would you like to see happen there?
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Now, I don't know how many Chinese Americans view the Transcontinental Railway as this, but it could be seen as their Plymouth Rock. What do you want people to know about the legacy of Chinese railroad workers in America?
American History Tellers
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Suli, thank you so much for joining us on American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
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That was my conversation with Su Li, historian and former executive director of the Chinese Historical Society of America. She's also co-editor with Connie Young Yu of Voices from the Railroad, stories by descendants of Chinese railroad workers. From Wondery, this is the fifth and final episode of our series Transcontinental Railroad for American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
In our next season, we're bringing you an encore presentation of our series on the Boston Molasses Disaster. In 1919, one of America's strangest tragedies struck Boston's busy North End when a giant storage tank holding more than 2 million gallons of molasses collapsed, sending its contents crashing into the city streets.
American History Tellers
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The ordeal left death and destruction in its wake and sparked a contentious court case to determine who was to blame for the tragedy. If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
American History Tellers
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And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode was produced by Polly Stryker and Alita Rozansky. Our senior interview producer is Peter Arcuni. Managing producer, Desi Blaylock.
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Senior managing producer, Callum Plews. Senior producer, Annie Herman. And executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
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Leading figures of both the Union Pacific and Central Pacific Railroad companies gathered at Promontory Summit, Utah, to watch as President of the Central Pacific, Leland Stanford, drove a symbolic golden spike into the final rail of track.
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Also present that day were scores of workers whose labor had made the railroad a reality, including a group of Chinese laborers from the Central Pacific, who had moved the final rail into position before the completion ceremony. Initially hired during a labor shortage, thousands of Chinese men worked under harsh conditions while facing daily discrimination.
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Chinese workers were paid lower wages and assigned the most dangerous tasks, including blasting tunnels through the Sierra Nevada mountains. But they persevered despite these challenges, and their hard work and resilience proved instrumental in completing the railroad. But over the years, their contribution has often been undervalued or overlooked entirely.
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Here with me to discuss recent efforts to recognize Chinese railroad workers' contributions to the transcontinental railroad is Su Li, historian and former executive director of the Chinese Historical Society of America. She's the co-editor with Connie Young Yu of Voices from the Railroad, stories by descendants of Chinese railroad workers. Our conversation is next.
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Sue Lee, welcome to American History Tellers. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. Now, there is this very famous photograph taken at Prominentory Summit, Utah, on May 10th, 1869, the one where the Central Pacific and the Union Pacific lines meet.
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There appear to be plenty of white men there, but it does not look like any of the Chinese workers who labored so hard on the railroad made it into this photo. Is your 2019 book, Voices from the Railroad, perhaps an attempt to correct the record?
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You've just witnessed the ceremonial golden spike being driven into the final rail of the Transcontinental Railroad, and your head is swirling with excitement. You take a swig from a bottle of whiskey and then hand it to your friend standing beside you. He gives you a nod of thanks. You know, while I was breaking my back trying to dig this damn thing, I didn't think this day would ever come.
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In 1969, 50 years before your book came out, there was a centennial ceremony at Promontory Point, Utah, 100 years after the Golden Spike ceremony. And the head of the Chinese Historical Society of America went and was scheduled to deliver a speech. How did that go?
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Of course, your efforts in 2019 are now 150 years old, 50 years further than that first centennial. How did you go about piecing together the history of these workers?
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What do you think was behind the difficulty in finding the details about Chinese laborers?
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Sure glad I was wrong. Me too. For the last two years, it feels like I've done nothing but swing a sledgehammer. But here we are at last. Your friend hands the bottle of whiskey back to you, and you gesture in the direction of a photographer who's setting up his equipment. Well, looks like they're going to try and memorialize the moment with a picture. Maybe we'll get in the paper.
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So it seems like there were quite a few obstacles in the way of finding the true Chinese story of the railroad for you. But I'm interested in what you knew of it before you started this adventure. Your grandfather came to San Francisco himself from China in 1915 and worked in a cigar factory.
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What were you taught at home about the contributions of the Chinese to building the transcontinental railroad? Or what were you taught at school?
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I'm glad you bring up the ancestral villages in China because we say things like Chinese laborers built the railroad, but China is a very large, diverse country. What part of China did many of these workers come from? What would have been like for them to arrive in California and work?
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Well, that would be something. I bet my wife and boy would be so proud. Well, come on, let's make sure we're not left out. You and your friend make your way over to two large locomotive engines that have been positioned facing each other on the track to mark the occasion and squeeze into the crowd surrounding them. Just then, though, you notice a group of Chinese workers standing to the side.
American History Tellers
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Picture this. You're transported back in time, witnessing history unfold right before your eyes without any modern-day interruptions. That's the magic of Wondery Plus. Immerse yourself in the stories that shaped our nation with ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and exclusive bonus content.
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He also knew that with this crash and the death of a passenger, their contract and their dreams of financial success were in peril.
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After learning of his brother Orville's disastrous crash, Wilbur Wright was more determined than ever to prove that their planes were safe and that the deadly crash in Virginia was only a fluke. So within days, he was flying again, climbing into the air every chance he got.
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On December 31st, after flying more than 75 miles in 2 hours and 18 minutes, Wilbur won the 1908 Michelin Cup, a prize worth 20,000 francs, equal roughly to 100,000 U.S. dollars today. This flight, and others he undertook with passengers through late 1908, managed to keep the Wright's reputation intact.
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Wilbur wrote to his sister Catherine how princes and millionaires as thick as fleas come to see him in his airplanes. Encouraged by the reception in Europe, in January of 1909, Catherine and Orville joined Wilbur in France. Still limping from his crash, Orville had to use a cane to walk as the three Wright siblings toured Europe for more of Wilbur's flying demonstrations.
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Well, if I've learned anything in all this, it's that people like you are fickle. One week you call my brother and I frauds, and the next we're heroes. What will it be tomorrow? All I can do is focus on my work. Now, you have a real question, or can I get back to it? Fine, yes. What are you planning to do next to stay ahead of all of the other flyers? Are you worried about competitors?
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Despite the death of Thomas Selfridge months earlier, Wilbur began taking passengers in the air with him, sometimes five or six a day. He also set more records, won more prizes and accolades, and even gave lessons to other French flyers. On February 15th, at a field in the south of France, Wilbur took up his sister Catherine for her first-ever flight.
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She would fly with him two more times in the months ahead, setting a record for flying longer and farther than any American woman. Meanwhile, Orville watched quietly as his brother and sister flew. He told reporters he hoped to fly again soon, but often seemed glum to be sidelined, even as he and his siblings gained wider fame and recognition.
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The Wrights met with millionaires and royalty, including the kings of Spain, England, and Italy. Catherine was amazed that after so many years working alone and in private, her brothers had become celebrities, remarking that, Every time we make a move, the people on the streets stop and stare at us.
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Next, the Wrights visited Rome, where Wilbur made 50 flights, gave rides to more passengers, trained Italian military officers to fly, and gave lectures. One of his passengers was a cameraman who made the first-ever film shot from an airplane.
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As a result of these successful flights, negotiations with French and German buyers continued, and the brothers' flying machine attracted interest from an Italian syndicate, too. While those contracts were being negotiated, though, the Wrights began planning to return to Virginia to complete the trials for the U.S.
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Army Signal Corps, which had granted a one-year contract extension after Orville's crash in 1908. By the time the Wrights returned home in May of 1909, Wilbur had spent more than a year in Europe. During that time, he had flown longer, farther, and faster than any other pilot.
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He and Orville had also come home $200,000 richer, thanks to prize money he'd earned in various flying contests and from preliminary sales of Wright Flyer planes to France.
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On June 10, 1909, after a brief homecoming in Dayton, the Wrights traveled to Washington, D.C., where President Taft, a fellow Ohioan, awarded them Congressional Medals of Honor for what he called their great step in human discovery. A week later, thousands of people visited Dayton for a two-day celebration of the Wright brothers' accomplishments.
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Their father, Bishop Wright, gave an invocation in which he praised his sons for daring to dream of an invention hitherto deemed impracticable, cleaving the air like a bird. After soaking in the praise in Dayton, the brothers traveled back to Washington to complete the flight trials for the Army.
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On June 29th, as senators and military officials gathered to watch, Orville returned to the air for the first time since the terrible crash that resulted in Thomas Selbridge's death. he got off to a shaky start. He had to cut his first flight short due to engine problems, and on his next flight, he made a hard landing, nearly skidding into a tree.
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But finally, after a two-week delay to repair the wings, Orville took off again on July 12th and stayed aloft without incident to the cheers of eager crowds. The brothers stayed in D.C. for another month to make endurance flights and other tests as required by the Army. Orville also again flew with passengers, soaring for more than an hour and at speeds of 40 miles an hour.
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At one point, President Taft sat among the 8,000 spectators. And when the trials ended on July 30th, the Wrights were finally awarded a $30,000 contract from the War Department, which included bonuses for surpassing the Army's minimum requirements. But at the same time, other aviators were making their own advances.
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Well, I think French aviators like Blériot and the Voisin brothers, they've had moderate success, but you said it yourself. When I fly, I am in complete control, and the others are not. In my opinion, no, not yet. I believe it was De La Grange who admitted after watching one of my flights that we are beaten. Yes, but how long can that last?
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On July 25th, while the Wrights were still in D.C., they received word that French aviator Louis Bleriot had flown a monoplane across the English Channel from Calais, France to Dover, England, covering 23 miles of open water. A month later, the first international air races were held in Rheims, France.
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The Wrights declined to participate, so the race was won by American motorcycle racer and aviator Glenn Curtis, who set a new speed record by averaging 46 miles an hour. But rather than celebrate Curtis' accomplishment, the Wright brothers sued him for patent infringement, alleging he had stolen their wing design.
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Wilbur and Orville remained determined to defend their inventions, even if it meant going to battle with fellow aviators. Imagine it's September 28, 1909, on Governor's Island in New York Harbor. You're at a hangar to work on the airplane you're planning to fly over New York City tomorrow. You've just returned from France, where you set a new speed record.
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The press has been comparing your recent success to those of the Wright brothers, which is good news for the company you and your partner recently formed. You have plans to start manufacturing your own airplanes. But when you arrived, you noticed that Wilbur Wright was working in the hangar beside yours.
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Despite the fact that he and his brother recently sued you, you reluctantly walk over to greet him. Well, hello, Wilbur. I knew you'd be flying in this weekend's event, but I didn't expect they'd put our hangars side by side. You reach out to shake Wilbur's hand, but he pulls back. Sorry, my hands are a bit greasy with engine oil. Congratulations on your success at Ream. 46 miles an hour.
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It's quite impressive. 46 and a half, but thank you. Yeah, coming from you, honestly, that means a lot. Well, I'm sure it helped that your plane had the benefit of our patented designs for lateral control. I assume you received the paperwork from our lawyers? Yeah, and I must say, I was surprised you filed two lawsuits against me. You and your brother have come at me with both barrels.
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I had hoped we might work out our differences. We gave you a chance to do that earlier this year. You could have paid us a licensing fee. Those so-called ailerons that you've added to your wings are a blatant infringement on our 1906 patent. Well, that's just simply not true, Orville. We invented our little wings, as we call them, specifically to avoid violating your patent.
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Calling it a different name doesn't change a thing. Our patent covers all techniques that mimic our method of controlling the lateral movement in the air. We call it wing warping, you call it ailerons, but it's the same. And it's our technology. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and let the courts decide.
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You've already sold your first airplane, which means you've already profited from our ideas, and I have no doubt the courts will rule in our favor. When they do, I'll be happy to see your aircraft company go out of business. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have work to do. You watch Orwell turn back to his aircraft. You leave and walk glumly back to your hangar.
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You used to feel a sort of kinship with the Wright brothers, the sense that you were all part of the same rarefied club of flyers. Now, though, you can't help but feel that the Wrights have become obsessed with making money and will go out of their way to crush any perceived competitors.
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In the summer of 1909, the Wright brothers filed the first in a series of lawsuits in the United States and Europe against competitors they believed had infringed on their patented aircraft designs. And these legal battles quickly began to occupy more and more of the Wright brothers' time and energy.
American History Tellers
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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and experience American history like never before. Imagine it's midday on August 21, 1908. You're a pilot and inventor from Dayton, Ohio, but today you're at a horse track five miles outside the French city of Le Mans. Since you started giving flying demonstrations here, the crowds of spectators have steadily grown larger.
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Surely the race for dominance of the skies is still wide open. New airplanes are being designed and built every day. And those inventions had better not infringe on the work my brother and I have already done. We've labored day and night for years, and we'll fight to protect our patented designs. Now, please, if you'll excuse me.
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Their initial target was Glenn Curtis and his partner Augustus Herring, who had formed the Herring-Curtis Company earlier in 1909. They began making airplanes whose wings featured flaps called ailerons designed to control their planes' side-to-side or lateral movement, such as rolling and banking, similar to the wing-warping technique the Wrights had earlier patented.
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The Wrights had been suspicious of Curtis for years. In 1906, the same year they received their patent for wing warming, Curtis had written to them offering to sell them a lightweight engine he'd built. They declined, but when Curtis was in Dayton later that year, they did agree to meet with him.
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During his visit, the Wrights showed him photographs of their earlier airplanes, while he peppered them with technical questions about their wings and engines. Then, in 1909, Wilbur learned about Curtis's new planes and their aileron flaps. He wrote to Curtis and insisted that he pay license fees to the Wrights for the use of their technology.
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But Curtis refused, triggering a legal fight that would last for years. And then, only weeks after the lawsuits were filed, Wilbur and Curtis briefly crossed paths as they prepared to be part of a two-week maritime celebration along New York's Hudson River.
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In an embarrassing turn of events, Curtis was forced to leave the event early when he found his airplane did not have enough power to handle the gusty winds around the harbor. But Wilbur had no such problem. On September 28th, a million people watched Wilbur fly over New York Harbor, around the Statue of Liberty, and up the Hudson River.
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Since he had never flown over water before, he came up with an innovative new feature, mounting a 14-foot canoe under the plane to act as a pontoon in case of a water landing. A month later, the brothers incorporated the Wright Company with offices in New York. Wilbur would serve as president and Orville vice president. Their investors included two of the biggest names in finance, J.P.
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Morgan and Cornelius Vanderbilt. Next, they broke ground on a manufacturing plant in Dayton. And for the first time, the brothers would conduct business somewhere else other than their bicycle shop. They were finally ready to start manufacturing airplanes for customers and making real money. but they remained determined to protect their invention.
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In January of 1910, a judge issued a preliminary ruling in the Wrights' favor in the lawsuit against Glenn Curtis and his company. Curtis appealed, and the case dragged on. But even though they won the first round in court, the Wrights' longtime friend, Octave Chenute, thought it was a mistake for them to have gone after an American hero like Curtis.
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He warned that other flyers might turn against them, and that lawsuits were not in the best interest of aviation. In a letter to Wilbur in early 1910, Chanute wrote, I'm afraid, my friend, that your usually sound judgment has been warped by the desire for great wealth.
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Wilbur tried to repair the strain on their friendship, writing to Chanute to profess, My brother and I do not form many intimate friendships, and I do not lightly give them up. But the rift never fully healed, and Chanute would die later that year at age 78. But all through the personal and legal battles of 1910, the Wrights never stopped flying.
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By now, they'd learned that flying exhibitions were good for business. They also wanted to establish a flight training school. So on May 25th, they invited members of the Aeroplane Club of Dayton and the general public out to Huffman Prairie to see Orville fly. Nearly 3,000 people watched him perform acrobatic moves, including flying to a record altitude of 2,720 feet over half a mile.
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You've never enjoyed the press, but this reporter's questions about competitors touched a nerve. After years of flying without an audience, it makes you uneasy to allow so many people to see your aircraft. Watch to prevent another inventor from copying your innovations. You'd prefer to be back at Kitty Hawk, where you could fly without people watching.
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Spectators then watched Wilbur climb into the passenger seat beside his brother. They had never flown together. Their father had prohibited it, fearful of losing both sons in a crash. But now, seated side by side with Orville at the controls, they flew above their hometown for the first and only time. But there was another first to come.
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The Wright brothers' 82-year-old father, Milton, had agreed to fly. Orville and Milton took off, and as father and son soared 350 feet above Huffman Prairie, the bishop yelled, "'Higher, Orville, higher!' Rites were at the peak of their aviation careers. But soon, the stress of mounting legal battles began to take a toll on Wilbur, and the brothers' longtime partnership risked being torn apart."
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In 1910, Orville and Wilbur Wright's various business endeavors were taking off, and they began training the next generation of pilots. In addition to a training and testing facility at Huffman Prairie, they opened a wintertime flight school in Montgomery, Alabama, and helped establish a U.S. Army flying center in College Park, Maryland.
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They also created the Wright Exhibition Team, whose pilots would perform aerial shows. But over the next year, acrimonious lawsuits and patent fights took up more time and energy. These legal battles limited the brothers' ability to innovate further, and French flyers and airplane manufacturers began to take the lead in the aerospace industry.
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By 1911, European companies were manufacturing aircraft that were safer and faster than the Wright flyers. Over the next several years, the Wrights continued battling for aeronautical supremacy. They would file nine lawsuits in all and were sued themselves three times. They would eventually win every case, but this validation of their contributions came at a steep cost.
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But deep down you know that if you and your brother want to begin selling your flying machines, you have no choice but to keep performing before cheering crowds and dealing with nosy reporters.
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As Wilbur wrote to a friend, when we think what we might have accomplished if we had been able to devote this time to experiments, we feel very sad. In May of 1912, worn down by his constant travels to hearings and meetings with lawyers, Wilbur fell ill during a business trip to Boston. He was soon diagnosed with typhoid fever, the same disease that had afflicted Orville 16 years earlier.
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So Wilbur's brother Orville, his father, and his sister took turns sitting by Wilbur's side, just as he had tended to Orville during his illness when he was young. But despite his family's care, Wilbur died at Holman Dayton on May 30, 1912. He was 45 years old.
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In his diary that day, his father, Bishop Wright, wrote that Wilbur had lived a short life full of consequences, an unfailing intellect, imperturbable temper, great self-reliance, and great modesty. Letters, flowers, and condolences poured into the Wrights' home, and 25,000 people attended Wilbur's viewing. In the background, Orville quietly suffered the loss of his brother and closest friend.
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Bishop Wright wrote that both Orville and Catherine suffered his loss most. They say little. Wilbur's death also left Orville alone to tend to the rising tide of competition to their business and their protracted patent lawsuits. And within two years, disaster would strike. Several Wright planes that had been sold to the U.S. Army crashed, killing the pilots. So by 1913, the U.S.
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military pulled back from doing business with the Wright company, turning instead to French airplanes. One bright spot came in 1914, when a court upheld the earlier verdict against Glenn Curtis. But by 1915, Orville had tired of the whole business. He sold his company, which in 1916 merged with another, founded by aviation pioneer Glenn Martin, to become the Wright-Martin Aircraft Company.
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Seeking to recapture the days when he and his brother worked quietly above their bicycle shop, Orville created a new workshop and laboratory a few blocks from the old one. There, he turned his attention to conducting experiments on airplane parts, including work on an aerial bomb called the Bug that could fly behind enemy lines in warfare, an early version of a drone.
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Then, in April of 1917, Orville's father, Bishop Wright, died at the age of 88. A year later, Orville made his final flight. And after years of supporting her brothers, Katherine Wright married and moved to Kansas City. She would die of pneumonia in 1929. In the decades since their first successful flight at Kitty Hawk, the Wright brothers had revolutionized the art and science of human flight.
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They also inspired future generations of aviators. In 1927, Charles Lindbergh flew his Spirit of St. Louis plane from New York to Paris, becoming the first aviator to cross the Atlantic. When he returned home, he went out of his way to visit Dayton and pay his respects to Orville. As an elder statesman of the aviation community, Orville still made public appearances from time to time.
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And in 1928, he traveled back to Kitty Hawk for the 25th anniversary of Wilbur's first powered flight. He also made an appearance at an aeronautics conference in Washington, D.C. But by 1930, he had become something of a recluse. That didn't stop the press from continuing to seek him out, though. Imagine it's a cloudy September afternoon in 1930.
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You're in the office behind your house on North Broadway in downtown Dayton, Ohio. You wince as another drop of water falls from a leak in the ceiling caused by recent heavy rain. Today you're meeting with a magazine writer who's come to talk about the bygone days of your first flights with Wilbur. The reporter seems surprised you even agreed to meet. And in fact, you're surprised yourself.
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You normally hate to have anything written about you. But this young man was persistent. He still has an eager look in his eye as he peppers you with more questions. So for the last several years, you avoided the spotlight pretty much, dodging cameras and interviews. What made you decide to meet with me? Well, to be honest, I'm not certain. I'm most comfortable in my own company these days.
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Has it always been the case? Is that why you're never married? I guess you could say I was married to my work. My brother, too. By now, you've won every honor imaginable, but with your brother and sister gone, you have no one to share your success with. Don't you want the world to know who you are and what you contributed? I take great pride in what my brother and I achieved.
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I just hate having to talk about it. I guess that's why I never wrote an autobiography or anything. It's like my brother once said, the only birds who talk are parrots. They are not birds of high flight. Well, speaking of high flight, I understand you still have back pain from your crash in 08. That was quite the tumble. Do you think air travel today is safer?
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I think there are still too many accidents. Too many daredevils lose their lives in airplanes. Better pilot training is definitely needed. Okay, interesting. But tell me, what's been the greatest thrill for you all these years? I only ever had one thrill in aviation, when the idea of achieving flight first came to me as a small, sleepless boy.
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The reporter looks surprised as he scribbles this remark in his notebook, your eyes narrow on the small pool of water accumulating in the corner of the room. I'm sorry, I'm suddenly pretty tired, and I think it's time I said goodbye. I also have that leak to attend to, and then some mail I need to sort.
American History Tellers
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As you get up and escort him to the door, you thought you might show the reporter some of the innovations you crafted around the house, but now your back is hurting and you just want to be left alone again. He seems too focused on the past, and that's not someplace you prefer to spend your time these days.
American History Tellers
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As Orville Wright reached his 60s, he mostly withdrew from the aviation community and from the public. Except for attending the unveiling of a Wright Memorial at Kill Devil Hill in 1932, he spent his time at his modest home and office in Dayton. But his contributions to aviation continued to receive recognition and acclaim.
American History Tellers
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In 1939, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt issued a presidential proclamation designating Orville's birthday, August 19th, as National Aviation Day. and an aircraft carrier called the USS Wright was launched in early 1945 in further honor of the brothers. During World War II, Orwell watched as technologically advanced airplanes played a critical and destructive role in the fighting.
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In 1945, U.S. and British pilots executed an air raid on the German city of Dresden, dropping thousands of bombs and killing 25,000 people. Later that year, U.S. aircraft dropped the first atomic weapons on the Japanese cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, killing tens of thousands of civilians.
American History Tellers
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After World War II, Orville expressed regret about the devastation caused by airplanes, especially the bombers, that led to so much death and destruction. He told a writer, "...we dared to hope we had invented something that would bring lasting peace to Earth, but we were wrong." Orville Wright died in 1948 at age 76.
American History Tellers
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He was buried beside his brother, sister, father, and mother in the family plot at Woodland Cemetery in Dayton. The Wright brothers' contributions to human flight remain unmatched, and their legacy would endure. In 1969, when Neil Armstrong, another pioneer from Ohio, set foot on the moon, he carried with him a small piece of wood and fabric from the Wright's 1903 flyer.
American History Tellers
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Another Ohioan, astronaut John Glenn, also took pieces of the Wright Flyer when he returned to space aboard the Space Shuttle in 1998. Yet another tribute to humanity's first steps toward the heavens and to the days when two brothers from Dayton dared to lift an aircraft from the sandy bluffs of North Carolina and soar into the sky.
American History Tellers
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From Wondery, this is Episode 3 of our three-part series on the Wright Brothers from American History Tellers. On the next episode, I speak with historian Lawrence Goldstone, an award-winning author of 28 books, including Birdmen, The Wright Brothers, Glenn Curtis, and The Battle to Control the Skies.
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We'll discuss Orville and Wilbur Wright's fixation with patenting their technology and their relationship to other aviators. If you like American history tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
American History Tellers
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And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. If you'd like to learn more about the Wright Brothers, we recommend The Wright Brothers by David McCullough and Birdmen by Lawrence Goldstone. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Baugh.
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Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Neil Thompson, edited by Doreen Marina, produced by Alita Rozanski. Managing producers are Desi Blaylock and Matt Gant. Senior managing producer, Ryan Moore. Senior producer, Andy Herman. And executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
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From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. By 1908, the Wright brothers had been flying for eight years, having progressed from piloting experimental gliders to engine-powered aircraft.
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But over this time, their desire for secrecy and the refusal to allow photographs of their planes meant that very few people had seen evidence of their achievements. As a result, many in the press and in the scientific and aviation communities remained skeptical, refusing to believe that the Wright brothers had fully conquered the air.
American History Tellers
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But in the summer of 1908, Wilbur Wright amazed crowds with his aerobatic flying demonstrations outside of Le Mans, France. And weeks later, his brother Orville would demonstrate equally impressive flights at a U.S. Army base in Virginia. It seemed that the press in Europe and America were finally convinced of the brothers' history-making achievements.
American History Tellers
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But just as their skeptics were silenced, the Wright brothers would face a deadly crash and a struggle with lawsuits that threatened their legacy. This is Episode 3 of our three-part series on the Wright Brothers, Coming Down to Earth. In June of 1908, the French pilot Léon Delagrange managed to stay aloft in a French-built aircraft for 18 minutes, at the time, a world record.
American History Tellers
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A month later, an American motorcycle racer and aviation enthusiast named Glenn Curtis won a contest sponsored by Scientific American magazine by flying one mile in an aircraft called Junebug. The public and press considered both De La Grange and Curtis' flights great accomplishments and showered the pilots with praise.
American History Tellers
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Orville and Wilbur Wright had already flown further and longer than any of these aviators, soaring dozens of miles at a time and staying aloft for nearly an hour. But because of their obsession with secrecy, few had witnessed their flights and their achievements had largely been kept from the public.
American History Tellers
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That all changed in August 1908, when Wilbur began giving his first-ever flying demonstrations at a field outside Le Mans, France. As Wilbur rose into the sky and gave nearly flawless aerial performances, spectators were shocked at what they witnessed. Until that moment, the French had been convinced that their aviators were the true pioneers of flight.
American History Tellers
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The French balloonist and aviation promoter Ernest Archdeacon had ridiculed the Wright's airplane as a phantom machine and dared them to carry out their experiments in broad daylight. But Wilbur's demonstrations in August and September of 1908 were irrefutable proof that the Wrights were the most accomplished flyers in the world. And those that bore witness were amazed.
American History Tellers
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The press raved about Wilbur Wright and his great white bird, and even Ernest Archdeacon apologized for his previous skepticism, telling a reporter, I feel an intense pleasure in counting myself among the first to make amends for that flagrant injustice. For weeks, Wilbur entertained thousands of spectators in Le Mans.
American History Tellers
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And by late August, crowds had grown so big that Wilbur accepted an invitation from a local military commander and moved to a larger field at an army camp nearby. Hart Berg, the Wright Brothers' sales agent in Europe, even started charging spectators for tickets as more and more people rushed to witness the thrilling flights. And to capitalize further on these successful demonstrations…
American History Tellers
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And the European press, which had previously been skeptical of you and your brother, have become enthusiastic believers. So today you're packing your equipment to move to a larger field the French army has offered. But you know the curious crowds will follow you there too. So too will the eager and demanding press. And in fact, you notice a reporter approaching right now.
American History Tellers
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Wilbur agreed to stay in France through the fall of 1908 to generate more publicity for prospective buyers in Europe. That prevented him from returning home to give flying demonstrations for U.S. Army officials, who were also interested in buying the brothers' aircraft.
American History Tellers
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So Orville would have to make these flights alone, and his first-ever public demonstrations would be in front of large crowds that included military officers, reporters, politicians, scientists, and thousands of other spectators at Fort Myer in Virginia. The flying machine that Orville would use was a rebuilt version of their 1905 model.
American History Tellers
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Unlike earlier Wright machines, which were flown from a prone position, Orville's had two upright seats, one for the pilot and one for a passenger. On September 3rd, Orville nervously took off before a wildly cheering crowd. And at first, his flight looked perfect. But then he veered toward a wooden hangar, dropped quickly, and hit the ground hard.
American History Tellers
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He acknowledged to reporters, it shows I need a good deal of practice. But Orville recovered quickly, and his next few flights featured one record-breaking feat after another. On September 4th, he flew three miles. On September 9th, he circled the field 57 times over the course of an hour, surpassing his brother's feats in France by a large margin.
American History Tellers
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And later that same day, he took a military officer for a ride in the two-seater flying machine, taking another officer up three days later. The New York Times even speculated that President Theodore Roosevelt himself might fly with Orville, although Orville told reporters he didn't think the president should take such chances.
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The public, the press, the United States military, and scientific communities the globe over were all marveling at the brother's success. And so, too, was Orville's father, Milton, who traveled from Dayton to watch his son fly. Imagine it's September 15th, 1908. You've traveled to an army base outside Washington, D.C. to watch your youngest son fly his aircraft.
American History Tellers
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In the last few days, he's performed a number of stunning, record-breaking flights. But today, high winds have him grounded. So you're keeping him company while he works on the engine. He seems anxious and distracted. What's wrong, son? You worried the president is going to walk through the door and demand a ride? I doubt that's going to happen, father. That's just the press speculating.
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Well, what is it then? For starters, I need this machine to reach 40 miles an hour if we want to finalize our contract with the army. I'm getting close, but it's not there yet. Well, like your brother suggested, don't let yourself get pushed into doing anything before you're ready. Your son throws down a wrench in anger.
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But they are pushing me, father, and I've already taken two officers up with me, and now another one, some selfridge, wants a ride. He's a member of the aeronautical board. They're the ones who will decide whether the army will buy our machines, but I feel like I've become a carnival ride. Son, son, what do you know about this selfridge fellow?
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Well, for starters, he belongs to the Aerial Experiment Association. They started up last year with Glenn Curtis and others. Wilbur and I have been worried that they may be trying to steal some of our ideas, infringing on our patents. And I don't trust any of them. I'm convinced this is why Selfridge wants a ride. He's a spy. But maybe he's just curious. I wish it were that simple.
American History Tellers
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You steel yourself for another interruption. Yes, may I help you? I'm with the London Daily Mail. May I ask you a few questions? I suppose so, but please make it quick. I'm busy. Well, thank you. I've been watching you fly the past few days, and it's magical. We've never seen anyone fly a figure eight before. You had complete control. It seemed as though you could stay aloft forever.
American History Tellers
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But the patent you received two years ago should protect you, right? It should. But I still don't trust him. I've heard he makes disparaging comments about me and Wilbur behind our backs, trying to damage our reputation. Well, he's hardly the only one who's been doing that. But then there's the practical aspect of it. He's a big guy, heavier than the other two officers I took up with me.
American History Tellers
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Well, if you want my opinion, I think you've made two successful flights with other passengers, and you should have no problem with this one. I hope you're right. Without his brother by his side, your son seems more edgy and nervous than usual. You have to leave tomorrow for a church conference in Indiana, but you're anxious about leaving Orville on his own under all this pressure.
American History Tellers
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While Wilbur continued to give demonstrations in France, Orville had begun flying at Fort Myer, Virginia for an audience of military officials and civilian spectators. His demonstrations in early September of 1908 quickly became the most celebrated flights in the history of aviation.
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Orville gave one amazing performance after the other, repeatedly breaking records for distance and time in the air. And as thousands cheered and honked car horns, Orville stayed aloft for a full hour at a time, three times longer than any of France's revered aviators. And after reading about his younger brother's achievements, Wilbur called Orville a champion skyscraper.
American History Tellers
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Praise from his brother meant a lot, but Orville's real audience was the five-member review board for the U.S. Army Signal Corps, which would determine whether the Army would buy one of the Wright's machines. In February of 1908, the Wrights had signed a preliminary contract with the Army that would be worth up to $25,000 if they met certain conditions.
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First, they had to demonstrate their aircraft's capabilities before the review board, achieving specific milestones for speed, altitude, and distance, and fly with a passenger. With his brother in France, it was up to Orville to meet the terms of the Army's contract.
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One member of that Army board was Lieutenant Thomas Selfridge, an aviation enthusiast who also belonged to the Aerial Experiment Association that had been founded in the summer of 1907 by the inventor Alexander Graham Bell. It was known as the AEA, or informally as Bell's Boys.
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Members of this group were trying to catch up to the Wright brothers, who continued to worry about competitors stealing their ideas. And amid this tense atmosphere, Selfridge asked Orville to take him for a ride. Orville distrusted Selfridge and his motives, but with an army contract on the line, he was in no position to refuse the request. So just past 5 p.m.
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on September 17th, Orville reluctantly allowed Selfridge to climb into the seat beside him. They took off without incident and made a few circles around the field, reaching 40 miles per hour. But then, as the plane neared Arlington Cemetery, a piece of one of the propellers broke off and severed a tension wire that connected the wing to the tail.
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Orville heard a strange tapping and two loud thumps, and then the plane began to shake. From 125 feet in the air, it tilted into a dive. Orville was unable to pull out, and the plane spiraled, smashing into the ground. Orville later described feeling like a bird shot dead in full flight. Bystanders rushed to pull the bloodied men from the wreckage.
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They were both placed on stretchers and rushed to the hospital. Selfridge died that night of a fractured skull. Orville had survived, but his injuries were serious. He had a fractured leg, dislocated hip, and four broken ribs. Hearing news of the disaster, Orville's sister Catherine rushed to Washington and stayed with her brother for weeks while he recovered.
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You said you had questions? Yes. I wondered if you feel offended by the people who didn't believe you and your brother could fly. You mean people like you in the press? I suppose that's fair, but my paper never mocked or insulted you. We never called you a fake or a bluffer, but we were skeptical, yes. You've proven us all wrong.
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Despite his life-threatening injuries, Orville's confidence was seemingly unshaken. When a visiting friend asked if the crash had wrecked his nerves, Orville scoffed, "'Nerve? Oh, do you mean will I be afraid to fly again? The only thing I'm afraid of is that I can't get well soon enough to finish those tests next year.'"
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The crash had postponed the Army's decision about whether to buy the Wright's flying machine. But the brothers hoped to be able to continue their demonstrations in 1909, after Orville had recovered. Meanwhile, Wilbur was still in Europe when he learned about his brother's crash. He was devastated and blamed himself for leaving his brother to make the high-stakes demonstrations alone.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Hey, history buffs, if you can't get enough of the captivating stories we uncover on American History Tellers, you'll love the exclusive experience of Wondery Plus. Dive even deeper into the past with ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and bonus content that brings history to life like never before.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
But it wasn't actually just the British government and military command that was operating underground, because the American media was too. How did news from the UK reach the United States?
American History Tellers
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As they led their countries in the fight against fascism, one of the ways Churchill and Roosevelt came to know each other was during the visits Churchill made to the White House. And we have a chapter on the first visit in the book that was inspired by this podcast, The Hidden History of the White House, Power Struggles, Scandals, and Defining Moments.
American History Tellers
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FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. American History Tellers is sponsored by Legacy Box. Hey, Gen Xers, maybe even some elder millennials, I want to assure you that your childhood is just as important as anyone's.
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Sure, it's not digitally captured or uploaded to the cloud, instantly shareable and safely backed up like today's kids, but your memories, your old VHS tapes and home videos, those photos from your fifth birthday party at McDonald's, they're just as meaningful, even if they're sitting in your mom's closet.
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FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
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American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And here with me today to further explore the special relationship between Churchill and Roosevelt is Dan Snow. He spent his career presenting history programs for the BBC and PBS, including an in-depth series on D-Day. We'll discuss how the British dealt with Hitler before the U.S.
American History Tellers
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So with the Japanese attack and Germany declaring war on the U.S. shortly after, America was finally a full participant in the war. But Churchill made this visit—ten rough days at sea, apparently—because he worried that the U.S. might focus its efforts on Japan rather than Germany. So he essentially invited himself to the White House to shore up this special relationship between the U.S.
American History Tellers
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and Britain— And between himself and FDR. But there is this fascinating chapter in the American History Teller's book, The Hidden History of the White House, that does detail Churchill's visit to the White House and these two men's time together, which was rather long, many days and stretching into weeks, full of big dinners and long cocktail hours.
American History Tellers
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Not exactly wartime deprivation, but he was also very political. Their strategy talks went very late into the night, and Churchill, who's always described as a bit of a bulldog of a man, seems to go to great lengths to show deference to Roosevelt.
American History Tellers
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One story I liked was that Churchill apparently took to chauffeuring FDR around in his wheelchair, I guess simultaneously staying very close and intimate while also kind of subordinating himself. Churchill was a man leading a country in need, and he was smart enough to know how to develop a bond.
American History Tellers
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Well, I think Britain was saved. This was the moment that Churchill was hoping for, and though it was a dark hope, but it was the necessary push. for the American nation to get over its isolationism and recognize that the world was on fire and America was needed.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Yeah, well, the trip starts pretty much with a press conference. This is Churchill's introduction to America. And I think he knows that he has an act to play. There's a good scene in the book of this first press conference. The room is filled with both cigar and cigarette smoke, as both leaders were inveterate smokers.
American History Tellers
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But the reporters are clicking their cameras and anxious to get information from FDR and Churchill. And FDR knows that this is his opportunity to sell the British predicament to the American public and wants to show off Churchill to Americans. In fact, he does show him off. He tells Churchill to show himself to the cameras, to the reporters.
American History Tellers
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entry into World War II, Churchill's visit with Roosevelt at the White House, and then the culmination of their efforts, D-Day itself. My conversation with Dan Snow is coming up next. Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. You can apply on your iPhone in minutes and start using it right away.
American History Tellers
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And Churchill, in typical bluster, gets up on a chair and waves his cigar around as cameras click. Then one of the reporters asks Churchill in another humorous moment, Mr. Minister, can you tell us when you think we may lick these boys? And a slightly befuddled Churchill has to be told what the American colloquial lick means. And once he finally grasps it means to defeat,
American History Tellers
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He retorts in a very Churchill way, if we manage it well, then it will only take half as long as if we manage it badly. Right from the start, Churchill is on a charm offensive. He needs to charm Roosevelt. He needs to charm Congress. He needs to charm the press and ultimately the American people.
American History Tellers
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A man of appetites, for sure. But Eleanor, I'm glad you bring her up. She was not especially pleased with her husband because it was only upon Churchill's arrival that she discovered he was visiting. Franklin had told Eleanor that there was a guest coming and that they should prepare for copious amounts of food, cognac and champagne.
American History Tellers
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But for national security, he did not tell his own wife that it was the prime minister who was visiting.
American History Tellers
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Churchill's tastes were peculiar and copious. So he demanded, or I guess requested, that he have a glass of sherry before his breakfast. And for breakfast, he wanted something hot and something cold. And, well, the Americans obliged. They gave him bacon and eggs, certainly more eggs than Churchill was probably accustomed to with rationing back home.
American History Tellers
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Yeah, apparently the president wanted to have a meeting right then, and he was told that Churchill was in the bath, and that didn't bother Franklin. And it didn't bother Churchill either. And I think that says a great deal about the two men, that maybe perhaps FDR was intent on catching Churchill at a fragile moment, but Churchill was intent on turning it to his advantage.
American History Tellers
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He leapt out of the bath, showed his full naked body and said, see, Mr. President, I have nothing to hide.
American History Tellers
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Yeah, I think they had to. The bathroom story is probably indicative of the relationship as a whole. It is one of shared needs and ideals, but one of testing each other's strengths and weaknesses. These are two very strong men leading in dire times, and they need to be absolutely certain that each one of them is trustworthy.
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It's an allegory for their relationship, but I think this is a moment in which these men personify their nations.
American History Tellers
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American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Well, I think as we hinted at, it cemented the special bond between these two leaders. They agreed on a number of crucial strategies. One thing that Churchill did acquiesce to was Roosevelt's demand for a single command center in Washington and having these supreme allied commanders in Europe and Asia, one source of direction for the military operations. And this might have been in response to
American History Tellers
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America's position in World War I, in which her troops fought under British and French command and chafed a bit at it. But I think crucially, Churchill got from FDR what he wanted, a promise that the United States would fight Germany first. Because I think Roosevelt and his military advisors had already determined that Germany was the more dangerous foe with more resources and industrial capacity.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and embark on an unparalleled journey through America's most pivotal moments. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. Every once in a while, American History Tellers gets the chance to talk with someone who loves history as much as we do.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
They spent a lot of time together. Of course, they communicated hundreds, if not thousands of times by letter, telegram, and phone call. These were, by necessity, probably the two closest people on the planet separated by thousands of miles. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition.
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FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
You get a personalized plan, in-gym and in-app coaching support and a welcoming community. Anytime Fitness is holistic fitness. Get started at AnytimeFitness.com. So if Churchill's visit to the White House was perhaps the beginning of the special relationship, it was probably all leading to one shared and daring plan. And that was D-Day. History Hit has covered D-Day in vivid detail.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And I can imagine that this was a plan that went through several iterations. What were Churchill's early thoughts about striking back against Germany?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
American History Tellers is sponsored by Audible, whose best of 2024 picks are here. Discover the year's top audiobooks and originals in all your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full-cast production of George Orwell's 1984,
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FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
One of your history hit episodes goes through the very first 90 minutes of D-Day as if it was in real time. And in preparing for it, you talk to people who were there as the Armada left the British shores as witnesses and combatants. What was the departure scene like as troops headed out to Normandy?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
hard-felt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one, the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hanna and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive title James, or a personal pick of mine, Malcolm Gladwell's latest audiobook, Revenge of the Tipping Point. Find a new favorite and get listening with Audible because there's more to imagine when you listen.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
I'm glad you bring up the German state of readiness, because the success of D-Day pretty much hinged on the element of surprise. Why were the Germans not expecting the Allies to land in Normandy?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So as this operation goes on, minutes turn to hours. I assume it is a tense time with Churchill and Roosevelt in London and Washington, closely monitoring events, but far away from the action. What did Churchill say to the House of Commons?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Go to audible.com slash tellers and discover all the year's best waiting for you. Dan Snow, welcome to American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Well, Roosevelt was. He was a leader of a nation who was actively involved in D-Day just as much as the British, and by this point had committed much of the nation's treasure and their young men to the effort. So he, too, had to face the American public and apprise them of what's going on. He did so via radio. He asked them to join him in prayer, saying about the men fighting on the continent,
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
that they will need thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard, for the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again. And we know that by thy grace and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. So I think he took the same tack, that success is assured.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
The honor is all mine because you are a well-known champion of popular history, and your show, History Hit, covers a wide range of topics, but there's a special focus on the rich history of the UK, as one might imagine. One figure who looms large in the 20th century is Winston Churchill.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
We have been talking about two leaders from 80 years ago, though. While both very smart and cunning men, they face great challenges. It makes me think to ask what lessons we can draw from their relationship that we might apply today in a very different world.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
The lessons of coalition, the strength of coalition is an obvious one. But one of the larger lessons from Churchill and Roosevelt in particular is the importance of relationships, building relationships, understanding what trust means, understanding that loyalty is a give and take, that there are compromises always to be made, that ego is always to be put aside.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
I think from Churchill and Roosevelt and many, many other great leaders, this is the lesson you will always learn.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Dan, this has been an enormous amount of fun, a bit different than we normally do, but I enjoyed it so much. I am a big fan of your history hit podcasts and videos, especially the most recent one I watched on D-Day. Thank you for talking to me today on American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
That was my conversation with historian and broadcaster Dan Snow. Check out his podcast, Dan Snow's History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. From Wondery, this has been a special episode of American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
For more on Churchill's visit to the White House, check out the book inspired by this podcast, The Hidden History of the White House, Power Struggles, Scandals and Defining Moments. You can find more information about the book in our show notes.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So I'd love for you to take us back to the early days of World War II, to May 1940, when Winston Churchill had just become prime minister. What position was Churchill in, and the country, I suppose, at the time?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
On the next episode, we'll be wrapping up our series on the Transcontinental Railroad with an interview with Su Li, historian and former executive director of the Chinese Historical Society of America. She joins me to talk about the experience of Chinese railroad workers, the dangers they faced, and the legacy they left.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode was produced by Polly Stryker and Alita Rozanski. Our senior interview producer is Peter Arcuni. Managing producer, Desi Blalock. Senior managing producer, Callum Clues. Senior producer, Andy Herman.
American History Tellers
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And executive producers are Jenny Lauer-Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Yeah, this projection of confidence does seem to be at odds with reality on the ground. Britain's only allies are occupied nations, and America is reluctant to enter the war. What do you know about this reluctance, this isolationism?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So this period of early and mid-1940s is certainly a fraught one. Churchill comes into office in May, but by July and through October of 1940, the Battle of Britain was raging. Now, this was an attempt by Hitler to control the skies over the UK before an eventual ground invasion. Today, it's kind of remembered, I suppose, as a bit of a David versus Goliath story.
American History Tellers
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But I think it's understood that it's more complicated than that. How so?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And today, it's our good fortune to speak with British historian and TV presenter Dan Snow, host of Dan Snow's History Hit podcast. So much of history is decided by large events, battles, explorations, colonization. But this show tries to also demonstrate the power of relationships in steering history.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Now, this was also a time in the UK known as the Blitz, because along with military targets, increasingly civilian targets were bombed by the Germans. This is a relentless bombardment that went on for nine months, a terrible disruption of ordinary life. But I gather it wasn't all just huddling in shelters or bravely trying to ignore the risks and carry on. This is also a nuanced story.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
The United States and Great Britain have had their share of conflict, first in the American Revolutionary War and again in the War of 1812. But in the centuries since, these two countries enjoy a strong bond. And nowhere has that been more evident than in the friendship and working relationship between President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Prime Minister Winston Churchill.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
During this time of persistent bombardment, Churchill and his staff are forced to keep operations running in reinforced war rooms beneath the streets of London. And I know in one of your episodes, you visit these war rooms. What were they like?
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The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
As we explore the triumphs and tragedies that shaped America, we're always striving to paint a vivid, nuanced picture of the past. And with Wondery+, you can experience that vision in its purest form. Enjoy ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and exclusive bonus content that illuminates the human stories behind the history.
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But they decided not to share it with the press or the public right away. Instead, on January 6, 1904, the Wrights issued a press release to counter the many inaccuracies that had been reported in what they called a fictitious story incorrect in almost every detail.
American History Tellers
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In their release, the brothers described the events of December 17, but also stated, "...we do not feel ready at present to give out any pictures or detailed description of the machine." The brothers had discussed whether or not to share details during the long train ride home from North Carolina.
American History Tellers
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They calculated that they had spent roughly $1,000 building their flying machines and traveling to Kitty Hawk over the years. But the bicycle shop had been struggling. They wanted to turn their flying hobby into a business and find a buyer for their invention.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But to do that, they would need to fly more regularly, stop traveling so far from home to do it, and build a stronger and more reliable aircraft. Their financial future, their reputation, and the future of flight was at stake. American History Tellers is sponsored by Liquid IV. I'm turning 51 in a few weeks, and there's nothing I can do about that. But I do have control over my overall fitness.
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The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But you're not in a hurry because of the Wright brothers, are you? You and Langley have both been following the success of the Wright brothers, who've been flying their homemade gliders off the dunes of North Carolina's Outer Banks. Bicycle makers from Ohio? They've had some luck, yeah. But they're amateurs. It will be well-funded scientists and engineers like you and me that will lead the way.
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The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
In early 1904, weeks after their successful flight at Kitty Hawk, Wilbur and Orville Wright began building a new aircraft, which they would call the Flyer II. They again turned to the manager of their bicycle shop, Charlie Taylor, to build them a new engine. The brothers wanted the new plane to be heavier, sturdier, and more powerful than the prototype they'd left behind at Kitty Hawk.
American History Tellers
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Charlie Taylor would later say that the brothers were always thinking of the next thing to do. They didn't waste much time worrying about the past. And now, in 1904, as Wilbur later put it, they were at a fork in the road. For years, they had divided their time between running the bicycle shop and building and testing their flying machines.
American History Tellers
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But the brothers decided it was time to turn day-to-day management of the bicycle shop over to Charlie Taylor. They also hired a lawyer to help them file a patent that would protect their investment. This lawyer advised the Wrights not to publicly discuss their flying machine with the press or any potential competitors until the patent was granted.
American History Tellers
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This put a strain on the Wrights' relationship with their friend and mentor, Octave Chanute, who encouraged the brothers to give public demonstrations and talks and write articles about their success. But the Wright brothers had resolved to keep their machine under wraps until they had the patent in hand. The brothers also decided to stop traveling to North Carolina.
American History Tellers
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With the success of their machine and its engine-powered propellers, they decided they no longer needed the sandy slopes and gusty winds of Kitty Hawk. Instead, they set out to find a flat, open testing ground closer to home and soon chose a 100-acre cow pasture less than 10 miles northeast of Dayton.
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This field, called Huffman Prairie, was owned by Torrance Huffman, president of Dayton's Fourth National Bank. He agreed to let the Wrights use his pasture, free of charge, as long as they moved his cows and horses into an adjacent field when they flew. But Huffman had his doubts about these flying experiments, telling a nearby farmer, they're fools.
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All right then, Professor. I guess we should go ahead and fly this beast. Langley climbs down a ladder and shoves off in a small boat. You turned your assistant. Fire up the engine. In an instant, the 52-horsepower engine you helped build is humming beautifully. Then you raise your right arm. All right, when I drop my arm, hold the release. Okay, let her go.
American History Tellers
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And what at first seemed like an ideal location did turn out to have some issues. Wilbur and Orville soon discovered that the Huffman Prairie was full of gopher holes. So through the spring of 1904, the brothers spent hours trudging around the field with shovels and scythes, knocking down gopher mounds, then building a shed on the property.
American History Tellers
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By May, they finally had a level runway and were ready to start flying. They found that the plane took off reasonably well on windy days, but they wanted to develop a launch system that would, as Wilbur put it, render us independent of wind. Their solution was to build a 250-foot launch track with a small lip at the end, designed to provide a boost and help the machine lift into the sky.
American History Tellers
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Yet by mid-summer 1904, they were still managing to make only short flights, just a few feet off the ground. Wilbur would later say they'd become a little rusty. Charlie Taylor, who observed these attempts, was convinced the brothers were fearless but also reckless. With each flight he watched, Taylor wondered if it would be their last.
American History Tellers
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But other observers were less impressed by the flights themselves than by the brothers' patient perseverance, their calm faith in ultimate success, and their mutual consideration of each other. The local high school teacher who wrote these words also said the brothers always took turns, and he felt they were getting nearer and nearer to sustained flight.
American History Tellers
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And now that Wilbur and Orville were flying closer to home, their father Milton and sister Catherine began to play a bigger role, often making their way out to Huffman Prairie to watch the brothers in action. Imagine it's August 24th, 1904. Today, you and your father have traveled to visit the field where your brothers have been testing their latest flying machine.
American History Tellers
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You're standing with a group of spectators, including a few newspaper reporters, watching your brothers tool with the aircraft they call the Flyer 2. Your father wanders off to speak with a member of his church, and that's when you notice the man next to you is taking notes in a small notepad. Excuse me, are you a journalist? Yes, managing editor of the Dayton Journal. Are you a subscriber?
American History Tellers
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No, actually, our family prefers the Dayton Daily News. But what brings you here? I teach a writing class twice a week at a school nearby, and I usually stop here after class to watch. Oh, I'm a teacher as well. I teach Latin and English at Steel High. Oh, that's a good school. What brings you here, then? You decide not to let on that you're related to the Wright brothers.
American History Tellers
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Oh, just curious, I suppose. Yeah, I've been hearing about the Wrights ever since the news broke last year. Yes, well, they were very successful in North Carolina. Not so much this summer, I'm afraid. The engine of the Flyer 2 revs up, and you notice your brother Wilbur is taking off.
American History Tellers
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You and the newspaper man both watch as the Flyer 2 accelerates down the track and launches, but only gets about eight feet off the ground. After ten yards of flight, Wilbur lands hard in a spray of dirt and grass. Well, I guess they're still working out the kinks. The newspaper man smirks. Yeah, I feel sorry for them. They seem like decent young men, and they're persistent, I'll give them that.
American History Tellers
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But I'm surprised they keep coming here day after day to waste their time on that ridiculous machine. And why is it ridiculous? You know, you people in the press are always, always ridiculing or ignoring my brothers. Ugh. so you're the sister. I am, and I'm proud to be their sister, because you'll see, someday they'll make you eat your words.
American History Tellers
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Look, miss, I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I hear there's great progress being made in Britain and France. It's clear by comparison your brothers are just hobbyists. They're amateurs. You're about to protest some more, but then you see that your brother Orville is taking a turn in the machine. He rockets down the runway, lifts up into the air, and it's beautiful.
American History Tellers
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You smile smugly at the reporter until a sudden gust of wind kicks up and you watch Orville struggle to maintain control. Your face falls as you realize he's going to crash. Many of the Wright brothers' early flights at Huffman Prairie were only short hops, barely making it off the ground.
American History Tellers
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But on August 13th, Wilbur finally managed to fly a distance of 1,000 feet, the brother's longest flight up to that point. But then, 11 days later, Orville was hit by a gust of wind and crashed at 30 miles an hour while his sister Catherine looked on. He was bruised and badly shaken and couldn't fly for a month.
American History Tellers
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The aerodrome rolls down the 60-foot catapult track, but as soon as it clears the rails, you feel it jerk backwards. Looking up at the dark winter skies, it flips over. A sudden blur of noise and splintering wood. The cold water of the river engulfs you. You're wearing a cork jacket for flotation, but it's snagged on a piece of metal, and the sinking machine is pulling you under.
American History Tellers
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The Wrights had hoped their new engine would be powerful enough to fly without the aid of the steady winds of Kitty Hawk, but they couldn't get the momentum they needed. They knew they would have to think of something else to get them the height and speed to really fly. So they came up with an ingenious solution they called a starting apparatus.
American History Tellers
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Made with tall wooden poles, it used a system of weights, ropes, and pulleys to propel the Flyer 2 down the launch track. By early September, their catapult system was working, and Wilbur was able to make longer flights, even on days with light wind.
American History Tellers
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Then, on September 15th, with Orville still on the sidelines recovering from his recent injuries, Wilbur took off and managed to stay airborne for an astounding half a mile. Five days later, he did even better. He flew his first-ever complete circle, a flight that lasted nearly a mile. Unfortunately, there were no reporters to witness this feat.
American History Tellers
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The press had stopped coming to Huffman Prairie to watch, and only one writer still seemed interested in the Wright brothers' experiments. Amos Root was an eccentric and deeply religious beekeeper from outside Cleveland who wrote essays and travel articles for a beekeeper's trade journal, and in his 60s, he developed an interest in scientific inventions.
American History Tellers
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Root had begun exchanging letters with the Wrights in early 1904, and later that same year started visiting Huffman Prairie. In December, Root got the Wright brothers' permission to publish an article about them in his beekeeper's journal.
American History Tellers
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Root's breathless account of the flights he witnessed at Huffman Prairie became one of the first comprehensive stories about the Wright brothers, describing watching Wilbur fly four complete circles around the field as one of the grandest sights of his life. Root also sent a copy of his story to Scientific American, offering to let them reprint it.
American History Tellers
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But his article was ignored, and the mainstream press continued to shun the Wright brothers, many believing they were merely cranks and could not really be achieving anything of significance.
American History Tellers
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Despite this lack of public recognition, though, the brothers felt confident that the new machine they were building, the Flyer III, would be their first truly reliable aircraft, a machine someone might actually want to buy.
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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and see American history through a whole new lens. Imagine it's late afternoon on December 8th, 1903. You're sitting atop a houseboat on the icy Potomac River, a few miles south of Washington, D.C.
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Although they received some initial interest from the British government, the brothers really hoped to sell their machine to the United States, and in early 1905, they met with a local congressman, Robert Nevin, seeking his advice on how they might promote their Flyer to the U.S. military.
American History Tellers
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Nevin encouraged them to write a letter describing their aircraft, and he'd deliver it to then-Secretary of War and future president, William Howard Taft. But Taft's War Department declined to buy the Wright's machine, stating that it has not yet been brought to the stage of practical operation.
American History Tellers
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Meanwhile, the brothers waited a response to their patent request, and they began to perform longer and more complicated flights, achieving circles and figure eights and increasing their distance from 10 to 15 and then 20 miles. On October 5th, Wilbur circled the pasture 29 times. Later that month, their father was on hand to watch Wilbur make a 24-mile flight, their longest yet.
American History Tellers
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Their achievements during the summer and fall of 1905 at Huffman Prairie further convinced the brothers of the commercial value of their invention. The press was turning around, too. They had all but drifted away in 1904, but now, a year later, began to pay attention again.
American History Tellers
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The Dayton Daily News described witnessing one of the brothers soar away like an eagle, and a correspondent from a German aeronautical journal came to write a series of articles. But by the end of 1905, despite this newfound interest in the press, commercial possibilities seemed to be waning. The interest from the British Army had stalled, and even though the Wrights again wrote to the U.S.
American History Tellers
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War Department stating we do not wish to take this invention abroad, again they were rejected. But then, just days after Christmas, the Wrights received a visit from a French businessman, expressing an interest in buying their Wright Flyer on behalf of the French military.
American History Tellers
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The deal was contingent on the Wrights demonstrating their machine's abilities, but if it went through, they could receive up to a million francs, or 200,000 U.S. dollars, an astounding offer worth around 7 million today. But the brothers remained determined to wait until their patent was approved before giving any official demonstrations to potential buyers.
American History Tellers
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You rip off the jacket and kick toward the surface, swimming through a tangle of wires and wood, then finally into open water. You see Langley's small boat up ahead and begin to swim for it. He reaches out towards you and pulls you aboard. Then Langley throws a blanket over your shivering shoulders. You see the look of shock and disappointment on his face.
American History Tellers
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As a result, the French representatives hesitated. They wanted proof that this machine actually worked the way Wilbur and Orville said it did. But wary of others infringing on their designs, the Wrights refused to give demonstrations until any potential buyer offered a contract first.
American History Tellers
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This hesitancy prompted the Paris Herald to publish an editorial publicly questioning the Wrights' claims, saying, "...the Wrights are in fact either flyers or liars. It is difficult to fly. It is easy to say, we have flown."
American History Tellers
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So with many openly doubting they had a machine capable of actually flying, and lucrative contracts on the line, the two inventors would be forced to become businessmen in order to keep their dream alive.
American History Tellers
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In 1906, the Wright brothers were approached by more potential buyers. But after years spent in isolation trying to build and refine flying machines, they struggled with the business side of aviation. Years earlier, Wilbur had written to his older brother, Loren, that he felt that he and Orville weren't aggressive enough to be good businessmen.
American History Tellers
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He described business as a form of warfare in which each combatant strives to get the business away from his competitors and at the same time keep them from getting what he already has. But by May 1906, the U.S. Patent Office had finally approved the applications the Wrights had filed for three years earlier.
American History Tellers
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They had already received patents in England, France, and Belgium, and were waiting on one in Germany. And with this development, new potential investors began to emerge. A New York firm called Flint & Company, which sold guns, cars, and submarines in Europe, approached the Wrights and offered them $500,000 for the exclusive right to sell their plane outside the U.S.
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For the second time in two months, this machine has failed miserably. You know if you're going to compete with the Wright brothers, you'll need to build a better flying machine, fast. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition. Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Then Germany floated an offer of the same amount for 50 Wright Flyers. These offers, each worth roughly $17 million today, seemed absurd for a pair of bike makers who so far had only built one airplane at a time. Nevertheless, the brothers traveled to New York to negotiate a deal with the head of the Flint company, Charles Flint.
American History Tellers
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But before an agreement could be reached, the Flint company's European representative insisted that one or both brothers come to Europe to meet with potential buyers in Germany and France. It was decided that Wilbur would make the journey by himself, so in April, shortly after his 40th birthday, Wilbur traveled to Paris. The French viewed Wilbur as a bit of an oddity.
American History Tellers
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He didn't smoke or drink and showed little interest in women. And he faced tough questions from potential buyers in France, who also insisted that the rights demonstrate their plain before any deal be struck. But Wilbur was encouraged by all the interest being shown in their flying machine.
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As he traveled to assorted meetings that summer, he reported to Orville by letter, the pot is beginning to boil pretty lively. In late July, Orville joined Wilbur in Paris. But their father, Bishop Wright, wrote to his sons warning them to avoid the temptations the city offered.
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Orville wrote back to jokingly reassure him that they'd been well-behaved, saying, "'We have been in a lot of the big churches and haven't gotten drunk yet.'" While in Europe, the brothers met with more prospective buyers in France and Germany, but by November, they still had not secured a deal.
American History Tellers
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Finally, they decided it was time to go back home, and confident that they'd return and finalize a sale in the new year, they left their Flyer III in its crates inside the Customs House west of Paris. In late 1906, Orville and Wilbur were by no means the only people in the flying machine game. They had stiff competition.
American History Tellers
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Aviators in France had made their own progress, developing dual- and single-wing planes powered by engines and propellers. And unlike the Wright brothers, these pilots often flew in public before large crowds. French-Brazilian aviator Alberto Santos Dumont had given public demonstrations making short hops in one 700-foot-long flight outside Paris, becoming an aviation hero in France.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
And in late 1907, just before the Wright brothers left Europe, Orville had joined a crowd outside Paris to watch cycling champion Henri Farman fly a dual-wing aircraft a distance of almost 5,000 feet, nearly making a complete circle. Meanwhile, the Wright brothers had yet to give any official public demonstration and many people remained skeptical.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But in 1908, the brothers finally got an offer from the U.S. War Department of $25,000 for one flyer machine. And a month later, the brothers signed an agreement with a French company. But again, both the French and the U.S. buyers insisted on a public demonstration first.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
By this point, the brothers hadn't flown since late 1905, years prior, so they traveled back to Kitty Hawk for some much-needed practice. They had a newly built flyer, similar to the one sitting in crates in France, but this one included a few modifications.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Instead of being controlled by a pilot lying prone on the lower wing, this flyer had two upright seats side by side, and soon enough, this model was ready for its debut. On May 6, 1908, the press descended on Kitty Hawk to witness Wilbur flying with a first-ever passenger, a local lifeguard sitting in the seat beside him.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Collier's magazine would soon publish a photograph of the Wrights in flight, the first picture to ever be shared publicly of their machine in action. The brothers had finally proved to remaining skeptics in the US that their aircraft actually flew.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Now Wilbur headed back to Europe to prepare for more demonstrations, knowing that the future of the company and the brothers' reputation rested on his success. Imagine it's 6 o'clock on July 4th, 1908.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
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American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
You're a car manufacturer and aviation enthusiast in Le Mans, France, and for two weeks you've been watching Wilbur Wright reassemble his Flyer III machine, which has been in storage for the past year. You've let Wright use a warehouse next to your car factory so he can work in private, away from curious newsmen.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
You've also loaned him one of your factory workers, but Wright doesn't speak French and mostly prefers to do all the work himself. You've been amazed at his work ethic and meticulous focus. Tonight, he's got the engine mounted, and in a few weeks, he's scheduled to give flying demonstrations.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
The European public will finally get their first look at the Wright Brothers machine in action, and now it has two seats you've been secretly hoping for a ride. Ah, Wilbur. I don't suppose you'd let a big man like me fly with you, would you? Oh, I'm afraid not. I want to make these first flights alone. Maybe later. Sure. Yeah, I just know I'm happy to help.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
What I really need help with is keeping those reporters away. I didn't ask them to come here. They're just being protective of French flyers. They're dubious about what you and your brother have done. Yeah, what is it they call us? Blufour. Well, in a few weeks, we'll show them we're not bluffing.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Suddenly, the room fills with the roar of the engine, much louder than the engines on your factory's automobiles.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
You watch as Wilbur adjusts a radiator hose on the engine. Suddenly, the hose breaks loose and shoots a jet of steaming water scalding Wilbur's arm and chest. You rush over and help him to the ground, then get up to grab a first aid kit. Wilbur, Wilbur, stay still. This is a vial of picric acid. We keep it on hand for burns. It will help, but it will also hurt.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
You dab the acid on his red and blistered left arm, then wrap the burn in a bandage. We need to get you to a doctor. I think you're right, but just make sure no French reporters see me. They'll have a field day. I will try to make sure they don't hear anything about it.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
You're relieved that Wilbur wasn't more badly hurt, but still you can't help but wonder, with these burns, will he be able to fly? When Wilbur returned to Europe in 1908 to finally give his first flying demonstrations on the continent, he was shocked to find his flyer, which had been in storage since the previous year, badly damaged.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Pieces were cracked or missing, the wings torn, the radiator smashed. Custom agents had opened the crates and damaged the parts. But despite this apparent sabotage, he found others who were keen to show their support. Léon Bollet, a wealthy automobile manufacturer, offered Wilbur workshop space to reassemble his aircraft.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But in late July, while testing the engine, a radiator hose broke and sprayed Wilbur with scalding water, badly burning his arm and chest. Bollé treated Wilbur's wounds, but it took weeks for his arm to heal. By August 4th, he was not quite fully recovered, but his flyer was in good enough shape to be moved.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
In the middle of the night, to avoid any press attention, Bollé helped Wilbur tow the aircraft to a racetrack five miles outside the town of Le Mans. For weeks, Wilbur had been followed everywhere by reporters. Some found him and his work habits amusing, and still more had nicknamed him V.A. Barrett or Old Oil Can.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
He lived up to this name when impatient reporters kept asking him when he would fly, and he snapped, I did not ask you to come here. I shall go when I'm ready. Wilbur was, in fact, eager to begin flying, but bad weather during the first few days of August kept him grounded. Then, on August 8th, he announced, Gentlemen, I'm going to fly.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
There was a brief delay when the press complained about Wilbur's insistence that no photographs be taken. But by six o'clock that evening, he and the press were ready. Wilbur turned his cap backwards, started the engine, then climbed into the left-side seat. Spectators observed that Wilbur wore no special pilot's helmet or jacket. just his regular gray suit and starched, high-collar shirt.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Minutes later, he pulled a cord that released a weight that catapulted him and his aircraft down the launch track. The Flyer 3 became airborne. At first, it seemed headed straight for a row of tall poplar trees, but at the last moment, Wilbur pulled up and banked to the left, making a graceful turn before swooping back around toward the crowded grandstand.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
As cheers arose, he made another banked turn and sailed back to where he started, landing just 50 feet from the launch spot. He had stayed in the air for a minute and 45 seconds, covering just under two miles. Stunned spectators were amazed at his control of the aircraft and his ability to make banked turns and to land so gently.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
They erupted in cheers and rushed onto the field, waving hats in the air. French aviator Louis Blériot was in the crowd and declared that a new era of mechanical flight has commenced. Over the next few days, Wilbur made a series of technically challenging flights before large crowds, including figure eights, demonstrating his skills as a pilot and the capability of his flying machine.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
The press went wild. Some reporters actually cheered and shouted, This man has conquered the air, and he is not a bluffer. Rapturous headlines appeared, declaring it a triumph of aviation and a marvelous performance. European skepticism has dissipated. And for old oil can, Wilbur's testy demeanor was softened a bit by the rapturous response. He now smiled at reporters and was even seen whistling.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
He wrote to his sister, Catherine, "'I cannot even take a bath without having a hundred or two people peeking at me.'" But while Wilbur was celebrating his successful flights in Europe, Orville was preparing to give his own demonstration for U.S. military officials in Virginia.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Wilbur wrote to his brother, advising Orville to avoid all unnecessary personal risk, further cautioning him to not let yourself be forced into doing anything before you are ready. These were wise words, and Orville took them to heart. But still, a violent crash and a high-profile casualty would threaten to destroy everything the Wright brothers had built.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
From Wondery, this is episode two of our three-part series, The Wright Brothers, from American History Tellers. In our next episode, an accident in Virginia casts doubt on the Wright Brothers' success. They find further headwinds in patent fights and lawsuits. And a million spectators show up in New York Harbor to witness a thrilling flight.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
If you like American history tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
If you'd like to learn more about the Wright Brothers, we recommend The Wright Brothers by David McCullough and Birdmen by Lawrence Coldstone. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
This episode is written by Neil Thompson, edited by Dorian Marina, produced by Alita Rosansky, managing producers Desi Blaylock and Matt Gant, senior managing producer Ryan Moore, senior producer Annie Herman. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. Through the end of the 19th century, daring inventors had made progress in the pursuit of human flight by developing balloons, kites, and gliders that soared through the sky.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But by the early 1900s, the challenge had become creating a self-propelled machine that could be controlled in the air by a pilot. At Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, Wilbur and Orville Wright had flown their gliders longer and farther than any other pilots, but trying to keep the details of their flights and their flying machine largely under wraps.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Meanwhile, in Europe, other inventors and adventurers were launching their own experimental aircraft, often in full view of the public. And elsewhere in the United States, a highly publicized and well-funded machine known as the Aerodrome, built by Samuel Langley of the Smithsonian Institution, was making headlines.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But in 1903, Langley's $70,000 Aerodrome crashed into the Potomac River, nearly taking its pilot with it. Just days later, the Wright Brothers would make history. This is Episode 2 of our three-part series on the Wright Brothers, Flyers or Liars.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
By early 1903, Wilbur Wright and his younger brother Orville had begun working on a new glider, which they planned to test at Kitty Hawk later that same year. But it was going to be different from the gliders they'd flown the previous three years at North Carolina's Outer Banks.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Instead of being carried by the strength of the wind alone, it would have propellers that were powered by a gasoline engine. The brothers knew that if it succeeded, they'd become the first inventors to achieve motorized, heavier-than-air flight. But first, they needed a powerful, lightweight engine.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
In January of 1903, the Wrights began contacting automobile makers, but none of them could provide an engine that could be mounted onto the wing of a glider. Then they got some unexpected help. Several years earlier, the brothers had hired Charlie Taylor, a farm mechanic from Illinois, to help around their bicycle shop.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
When the brothers started traveling to North Carolina for their glider experiments, Charlie Taylor stayed in Dayton to help the Wright sister, Catherine, run the bike shop. But Catherine did not appreciate the help. She thought Taylor was an insufferable know-it-all and would write to complain to her brothers that Taylor, who she called the hired man, was making her too weary for words.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But it was Taylor who came to the Wright's rescue after they failed to find a suitable engine by offering to build a small four-cylinder engine from scratch. Using tools the brothers had amassed in their workshop, including a drill press and metal lathe, Taylor managed to craft a noisy, smoky, 150-pound gas-powered motor that could deliver eight horsepower.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Taylor had provided the Wrights an engine, but now the brothers had to design and craft something entirely new to them, propellers, which would spin like fans and carry their glider into the air. But the challenge of crafting the propellers became the source of argument between the brothers.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
You're a mechanic and test pilot, and you're about to climb into the cockpit of an experimental flying machine called the Aerodrome, the brainchild of your boss, Samuel Langley, of the Smithsonian Institution. You previously tried to launch the steel-framed bird with its 48-foot wingspan back in October. But back then, it dove straight into the river.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Charlie Taylor and Sister Catherine Wright witnessed many loud and heated exchanges between Orville and Wilbur. At one point, Catherine threatened her brothers, if you don't stop arguing, I'll leave home. But the brothers kept at it, arguing constantly while they studied boat propellers and conducted research at the Dayton Library.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
By the summer of 1903, they had crafted two eight-foot propellers made of hand-shaved spruce. These propellers would be mounted behind the wings of their glider and were designed to spin in opposite directions, one clockwise, one counterclockwise, propelled by engine-driven chains. The brothers were growing confident that their engine and propellers would work.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
So that same summer, when the Wrights' friend and supporter, Octave Chenute, invited Wilbur to give a talk to the Western Society of Engineers, Wilbur chose not to mention their work on a powered glider. He wanted to make sure it worked first, before telling other inventors, because the Wright brothers knew they weren't the only ones working toward the first powered flight.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
For years, Samuel Langley, an astrophysicist and engineer at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, had been experimenting with motorized gliders. By 1903, Langley and his team had built a large, multi-winged machine with a 52-horsepower engine that he dubbed the Aerodrome.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
On October 7, 1903, Langley watched as his test pilot and engineer, Charles Manley, took the controls and attempted to launch the aerodrome into the sky above the Potomac River outside Washington. Unfortunately, the machine instantly crashed into the river. Two months later, on December 8, Manley tried again, but with the same result.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
This time, though, Manley nearly drowned in the wreckage, and Langley was ridiculed in the press for his costly failures. By that time, the Wrights were back at Kitty Hawk. They had spent the entire fall working out kinks in their new machine, but experienced setbacks. The engine kept breaking, and at one point Orville had to travel back to Dayton to get more parts.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
He was on his way back to Kitty Hawk when he learned about Langley's latest crash. But rather than join in ridiculing Langley, Wilbur and Orville defended their competitor, crediting Langley for his moral courage and for advancing the progress of aviation and influencing their own work.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Langley would die three years later, humiliated by his failures, and Wilbur would decry the shameful treatment of him by the press. And perhaps to avoid their own mistreatment in the press, the Wright brothers continued making their test flights in the remote dunes outside Kitty Hawk, far from the reporters and photographers whose news stories had mocked Langley.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But they did want evidence of their success. So they purchased a state-of-the-art camera that captured images on 5-by-7-inch glass plates and brought it with them to Kitty Hawk in order to take photos of their test flights. And by mid-December, after a stormy October and a snowy November, they were finally ready to launch in their new Flyer.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
At 600 pounds, it was more than 10 times heavier than the glider they'd tested in 1900. But as in years past, they still planned to drag it up to the top of the high dunes known as Kill Devil Hills. But they couldn't carry the heavy glider themselves. So they enlisted the help of three lifeguards from the Kill Devil Hills Lifesaving Station. Imagine it's 10 a.m. on December 17th, 1903.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
So today, you're hoping the engine you built will propel the aerodrome into the sky and into the record books. But unfortunately, the wind has kicked up. I'm not sure about this wind, boss. Maybe we'd be safer to postpone. No, with this cold, if we wait any longer, the river might ice over completely. And maybe we should wait till spring. Not a chance.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
It's a freezing cold morning on the sandy bluffs above Kitty Hawk, and you and two other men from Kill Devil Hill's life-saving station have just helped the Wright brothers carry their 600-pound glider up the big hill. Now you're hanging around, eager to see them take it out for a spin. Orville approaches you. Thanks for your help today. We finally got the new engine working.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
We flipped a coin, and I'll be the one to fly first, but we need someone to take a photograph. We want solid evidence of our first powered flight. I was hoping you might know how to operate a camera. I think you may be asking the wrong crew. I've never even seen a camera. Any of you? You turn to the other lifeguards who just shrugged. Well, it's not as difficult as it might sound. Let me show you.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Orville leads you to the camera, a leather-covered box on top of a wooden tripod near the end of the launch track. Now, this camera works by capturing images on glass slides that fit into the back here. What do I do? Pretty simple. When I get into the air, all you need to do is squeeze this bulb here.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
The bulb sends a pulse of air that opens the shutter for a split second, and the image gets captured on the glass plate. That's it? Just squeeze the bulb? That's it. It's all set up and aimed in the right direction. Just wait until I've left the launch track and gained some altitude. You give the contraption a once-over and decide to give it a shot. Well, seems simple.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
I guess I'm ready when you are. You take the bull from Orville and watch him walk uphill to the top of the launch track. You're excited to be helping the brothers at what could be an important moment in history, but you're also nervous. You don't know about this camera business and you hope you don't miss the shot. You watch the brothers start the engine and shake hands.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Orville makes some adjustments and then climbs aboard and lays flat on the lower wing. He then yells out to you.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
In an instant, Orville is sliding down the track while Wilbur runs alongside. It's thrilling and terrifying because suddenly Orville is in the air. And that's when you remember to squeeze the shutter bolt. You just hope you weren't too late. At 10.35 a.m.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
on December 17, 1903, at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, Orville Wright pulled a rope that released the machine named Flyer down its 60-foot launch track. Wilbur held the end of one wing and ran alongside his brother, keeping the machine steady as it slid into a strong headwind. As Orville reached the end of the track, he pulled on the rudder and the machine lifted.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
It rose, then dipped, rose, then dipped again, then a wing hit the sand and it landed hard. John T. Daniels, the lifeguard they enlisted to take a photograph, cheered and clapped along with his companions. Orville had traveled just 120 feet, but the 12-second journey would stand as the first controlled, powered flight in history.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Afterward, Orville rushed over to Daniels to ask if he got the photograph. Daniels had been so excited he said he wasn't sure, and the glass plate couldn't be developed until the brothers got back to their darkroom in Dayton in a few weeks.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
Wanting to be certain they captured evidence of their achievement, Orville loaded the camera again, and the brothers made three more flights, this time operating the camera themselves. Wilbur made the longest flight that day, covering 852 feet in 59 seconds.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
I've spent four years and $50,000 of public funding on this. Plus another $20,000 I raised myself. The investors and the public want to see something. You look out at the crowds lining the shore and boats filled with the journalists, scientists, and military officers Langley invited. So it's now or never? Yeah. If we wait until spring, the funding will have dried up entirely. We have to fly now.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
At one point, lifeguard John Daniels was helping drag the aircraft back uphill for another flight when a gust of wind caught it and tossed him and the plane. Daniels got tangled in the machine but escaped without serious injury. In his diary that night, Orwell wrote, his escape was miraculous as he was in with the engine and chains.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But for Daniel, he would later boast that he had survived the world's first plane crash. The flyer, however, was ruined and would never lift off again. At the end of the day, Orville and Wilbur walked four miles to the Kitty Hawk weather station to send a telegram to their father. In abbreviated language, it read, Success. Four flights Thursday. Inform Press. Home for Christmas.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
At home in Dayton, Bishop Wright received the telegram from his sons and showed it to his daughter, Catherine. They were so excited, they rushed to send their own telegram to Octave Chanute. Meanwhile, a telegraph operator in Norfolk, Virginia, intercepted the Wright brothers' telegram and passed it on to a reporter friend at the local newspaper, the Virginian Pilot.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
The next day, a front-page story appeared beneath a headline that declared, Flying machine soars three miles in teeth of high wind over sand hills and high waves at Kitty Hawk. This story was then picked up by the Associated Press and appeared in dozens of newspapers across the country, though it was filled with inaccuracies which infuriated the Wright brothers.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
But despite the reporters' fabrications, the story's first line rang true. The problem of aerial navigation without the use of a balloon has been solved at last. After their achievement, the Wrights returned to Ohio in late December.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Fliers or Liars | 2
They hoped to be able to see the photos they had taken, but they discovered that the water pipes at home had frozen, which prevented them from developing the glass plate negatives. When they were finally able to print the photographs in early January, they found that the images they had taken themselves were blurred, but the picture snapped by lifeguard John Daniels was perfect.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Picture this. You're transported back in time, witnessing history unfold right before your eyes without any modern-day interruptions. That's the magic of Wondery Plus. Immerse yourself in the stories that shaped our nation with ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and exclusive bonus content.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
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American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
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American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
In the summer of 1866, Army recruiters swept through American cities with the goal of filling the ranks of six newly created all-Black regiments. The four infantry regiments organized quickly by drawing from the large pool of Civil War veterans.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
However, finding recruits for the new cavalry regiments would prove more difficult because very few Black men had served in the cavalry during the Civil War. The Army also needed to be able to find officers to command these new regiments, and for the cavalry, General Ulysses S. Grant had two veteran officers in mind. He recommended that Colonel Edward Hatch lead the 9th U.S.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Cavalry and that Colonel Benjamin H. Grierson command the 10th. Hatch was a blonde, blue-eyed native of Maine who served as a colonel of the 2nd Iowa Cavalry. He survived a bullet wound in his lung in battle in Moscow, Tennessee, and later he was lauded for his bravery and aggression, spearheading the cavalry advance at the Battle of Nashville.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Off the battlefield, his personable nature earned him the trust and admiration of his troops. But Benjamin Grierson was an unlikely cavalry commander. When he was eight years old, a horse kicked him in the face, leaving him with a large scar across his cheek and a strong dislike of horses.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
When the Civil War began, he left his job as a small-town music teacher in Illinois and sought a commission as an infantry officer. Instead, he was appointed as a major in the cavalry. Despite his initial disappointment, though, Grierson threw himself into the challenge.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
He poured over books on battle tactics to make up for his lack of military education, and he soon turned his recruits into first-rate cavalrymen. In the spring of 1863, he led a daring 600-mile raid through the heart of Mississippi to divert Confederate attention from Grant's attack on Vicksburg. General William Tecumseh Sherman praised the raid as the most brilliant expedition of the war.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
John glances at the bag slung around your shoulders and looks down at the ground and kicks the frozen dirt lost in thought. Finally, he meets your gaze and nods.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Afterwards, Grierson was promoted to the rank of Brigadier General, and his portrait was published on the cover of Harper's Weekly. During the war, he also developed a respect for the combat capabilities of black men.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Following the siege of Port Hudson, Louisiana, in the summer of 1863, Grierson wrote to his wife Alice, declaring that the good fighting qualities of Negroes had been settled beyond a doubt. His high regard for black soldiers made him the ideal man to lead the 10th Cavalry.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
After accepting his appointment, Grierson established headquarters at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, while Hatch went to work in Greenville, Louisiana. Next, both men turned their attention to the problem of filling the officer ranks of their regiments. but they soon discovered that there were few experienced officers who were willing to command black troops.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Brevet Major General Eugene Carr declined a commission, insisting that black men could not make good soldiers, and accepted a lower rank so he could serve with a white regiment. And the young rising star George Custer, who went on to lead troops against Native Americans in the controversial Battle of Little Bighorn, refused Hatch's offer to serve as a second-in-command.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Instead, he took the same position with the all-white 7th Cavalry. And recruitment was not just difficult for officers. Even in New Orleans, Louisiana, where large numbers of Black Civil War veterans lived, recruiters for the 9th Cavalry faced an uphill battle in the fall of 1866. The previous summer, a white mob attacked dozens of Black protesters peacefully marching for voting rights.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
At least 50 Black residents were killed, many of them war veterans. Only months later, the city was still reeling from the violence, and white hostility to Black men in uniform persisted. But despite white resistance, recruiters managed to enlist roughly 800 men into the 9th Cavalry. One of those men was 19-year-old Emanuel Stantz, who became one of the first to enroll in October 1866.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Although he was born into slavery, he could read and write, which made him an attractive recruit, despite his five-foot stature. His literacy also helped him quickly rise through the ranks of non-commissioned officers, and within a few months, he would be appointed sergeant. Army service was an appealing prospect for men like Stantz.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
In the aftermath of the war, Black Southerners faced violence, discrimination, and high unemployment. The military offered food, shelter, and steady pay. Thirteen dollars a month was a meager wage, but it was the same offered to white soldiers and more than they could expect to earn as civilians.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Army service also offered Black men an opportunity to prove their manhood in a society that had largely devalued their worth. But despite the promises of military life, the 9th Cavalry's early experiences were anything but ideal. In Orleans, the new recruits were crammed into a poorly ventilated former cotton packing plant, even as a cholera epidemic raged through the city.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
Nearly 40 recruits died that fall, while others simply gave up and fled. Meanwhile in Kansas, Benjamin Grierson faced his own challenges organizing the 10th Cavalry and training his new recruits. Though many enlistees joined the military to escape discrimination and civilian life, they would soon find that prejudice had followed them into the Army ranks.
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Imagine it's a Sunday morning in June 1867 at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. You're an Army colonel and commander of the 10th U.S. Cavalry Regiment. As is custom, all units in the garrison are parading today. The summer sun beats down on you as you lead your recruits in formation on the fort's dusty parade ground.
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Your men snap to attention. Their newfound precision and discipline fills you with pride. But just as you're about to order them to march, Major General William Hoffman enters your peripheral vision. He strives towards you, a familiar scowl etched on his face.
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You step forward to wrap your arms around him. You can't let him know that you're just as scared as he is. But you can't just waste away on this plantation. You have to be your own man, even if it means risking your life. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition. Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day.
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You meet his gaze, willing yourself to maintain your composure as you face another argument with the commander of the fort.
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A hot surge of frustration rises in your chest. You've had enough.
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Hoffman takes a step towards you, his face taut with anger.
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Without waiting for a response, you turn on your heel to face your regiment.
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You watch your men march with fierce satisfaction. You're more determined than ever to get your unit away from Fort Leavenworth and away from Hoffman's bigotry. You need to get them into the field as soon as possible, to somewhere they can serve with the dignity befitting soldiers of the United States Army.
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When the 10th Cavalry organized at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, the fort's openly racist commander, Major General William Hoffman, made it his mission to make the black soldiers' experience as miserable as possible. He denied the black recruits adequate equipment, leveled petty charges against them, and ordered them to stay 10 to 15 yards from white troops at all times.
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He also quartered them in low grounds susceptible to flooding. Before long, several recruits were hospitalized with pneumonia. Grierson did what he could to fight back against such blatant discrimination, instructing his company commanders to avoid using the term colored in reports and emphasizing that they were simply the 10th Cavalry Regiment.
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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and experience American history like never before. Imagine it's dawn on Christmas Day, 1866, in Williamson County, Tennessee. You ease the door of your cabin closed and gingerly step onto the frosty ground, hoping you don't wake anyone inside.
American History Tellers
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He also protested to his department headquarters, demanding fair and equal treatment for his men. He affirmed, "...colored troops will hold their place in the Army of the United States as long as the government lasts." But Grierson was still desperate to escape Fort Leavenworth and requested a transfer for his regiment.
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In the meantime, he busied his soldiers with rigorous training in horseback riding, marching, and marksmanship. Then, in the spring and summer of 1867, the 9th and 10th Cavalries would head west to serve in the Great Plains and in the mountains and deserts of New Mexico and Arizona.
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The soldiers would be tasked with supporting westward expansion by building roads and telegraph lines, protecting settlers and railroad construction crews, and escorting U.S. mail carriers. But above all else, they would be charged with subduing the American Indians who stood in the way of this westward expansion. For centuries, Indians of the Great Plains were free and independent.
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They roamed the prairies, hunting buffalo for meat and hide. But by the middle of the 19th century, white settlers had threatened their way of life by introducing diseases, devastating foraging grounds, contaminating water sources, and running off buffalo herds.
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Nevertheless, tens of thousands of Indians insisted on remaining free rather than agreeing to live on reservations at the mercy of white men. For their resistance to white settlement, the U.S. government considered them hostile. But conflict with Indian tribes was not the only reason for sending black soldiers west. The politics of reconstruction also came into play.
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Army officials hoped that by keeping black soldiers away from the South, they could reduce tensions. So in March 1867, Emanuel Stantz and the other soldiers of the 9th Cavalry left Louisiana for Fort Davis in West Texas. But during their travels, the soldiers quickly discovered they would be fighting a war on two fronts, one against the Indians and one with their own army.
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The soldiers were accompanied by Lieutenant Edward Hale, a white company commander who quickly gained a reputation as a sadistic bigot. In April, the regiment arrived at San Pedro Springs, outside San Antonio. While there, Hale ordered several black soldiers to be hung by their wrists from tree limbs for responding too slowly to his orders.
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When the black sergeant, Harrison Bradford, protested, an argument escalated into gunfire that killed Bradford and a lieutenant. As a result of this incident, several black soldiers were court-martialed while Hale got off with only a reprimand.
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So, before they even arrived at their final post, the 9th Cavalry was stained by accusations of mutiny, and soon they would face the challenge of guarding hundreds of miles of one of the most turbulent frontiers in American history. In July, the 9th Cavalry finally arrived at Fort Davis, a dilapidated army outpost named after Jefferson Davis, who was Secretary of War when the fort was constructed.
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It was nestled in a mile-high desert canyon in west Texas near the Mexican border, roughly 200 miles southeast of El Paso. But there at Fort Davis, their main duty was to defend 600 miles of the meandering Rio Grande frontier and a vast region in West Texas. Water was often scarce, and temperatures ranged from over 100 degrees in summer to below freezing in winter.
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Displaced Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Indians who had refused to settle on reservations roamed the area. Indian warriors, Mexican bandits, and white cattle thieves found a haven in the thick brush along the Rio Grande, and they had brought the area to a state of near-anarchy. The 9th Cavalrymen would quickly discover that keeping at peace was nearly impossible.
American History Tellers
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And conditions were no less difficult for the soldiers of the 10th Cavalry, stationed nearly 900 miles to the north. They would soon find themselves plunged into the thick of a raging struggle for control of the southern plains. One small unit would enter the fray in a surprise attack, and threatened to turn into a massacre.
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In the summer of 1867, Colonel Benjamin Grierson and the men of the 10th Cavalry left the misery of Fort Leavenworth behind after receiving transfer orders. They traveled more than 100 miles west to their new headquarters of Fort Riley, Kansas. From there, three companies were stationed to the south in what was then Indian Territory in present-day Oklahoma.
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To lead a commission with broad powers to find the perpetrators, a respected former president, played by Robert De Niro, is called out of retirement, only to discover that he may be losing his grip on the truth and possibly even reality.
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The rest were posted along the Kansas Pacific Railroad, then under construction in central Kansas. But soon, the rookie soldiers would face their first test from Southern Plains Indians determined to make a stand. Since the 1840s, the Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapaho had faced increasing pressure from white settlement.
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These settlers had brought livestock to the region that spread disease among the free-roaming buffalo and depleted their forage. The Army's 1864 massacre of hundreds of unarmed Cheyenne near Sand Creek, Colorado, had also ignited armed conflict across the southern plains, and construction of the transcontinental railroad deepened Native resentment.
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And in April 1867, an army campaign to subdue hostile tribes only worsened the situation, sparking a full-scale war throughout much of the region. A black infantry commander wrote to the Army and Navy Journal that summer, declaring, This is the beginning of the great and last Indian struggle for his existence.
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So in early August 1867, the soldiers of the 10th Cavalry were ordered to find a group of Cheyenne warriors who had attacked a railroad construction crew. Thirty soldiers tracked them down at the Saline River in central Kansas, where they suddenly found themselves surrounded by 400 warriors.
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The outnumbered soldiers, who had not yet experienced major combat, dismounted and maneuvered themselves into a hollow square around their horses. Maintaining this position, they began marching back to their fort while fending off attacks from all sides.
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After six hours of battle, the Cheyenne finally retreated, and the 10th had suffered their first combat death, Sergeant William Christie, but the rest survived. Their white captain declared, It is the greatest wonder in the world that my command escaped being massacred. He applauded his soldiers' devotion to duty and coolness under fire.
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By the end of the summer of 1867, the 10th Cavalry had shed their rookie status, and soon Plains Indians began referring to them as Buffalo Soldiers. While the origin of this nickname is disputed, many believe the Cheyenne were the first to use it, likening black soldiers to bison, either due to their curly hair or because of their ferocity in battle.
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Zero Days stars Robert De Niro in his first-ever television series, alongside Angela Bassett, Jesse Plemons, Connie Britton, Matthew Modine, Lizzie Kaplan, and Joan Allen. Watch Zero Day on February 20th, only on Netflix. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers, our history, your story.
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The cavalrymen did not initially adopt the name, but they would later come to embrace it, including the image of a buffalo on their regimental crest as a symbol of pride. The name Buffalo Soldiers eventually became synonymous with all the black regiments formed in 1866.
American History Tellers
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But wherever the term came from, after a summer of violence, the Buffalo Soldiers were relieved that the fall of 1867 brought a fragile peace to the Southern Plains. In October, the U.S. government signed the Medicine Lodge Treaty with the Southern Plains tribes. The Comanche and Kiowa tribes were allotted a 3 million acre reservation in Indian Territory.
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In exchange for agreeing to settle on this reservation, the U.S. government promised to provide the tribes with food, supplies, and protection. But in the end, Congress failed to release the funds needed to live up to the treaty's promises, and by the next summer of 1868, there was renewed violence in the plains, prompting one of the most harrowing episodes of the Indian Wars.
American History Tellers
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Imagine it's the morning of September 25th, 1868. For eight days, you and dozens of other scouts under the command of Major George Forsythe have been trapped on a sandbar in Colorado's Arikari River following an attack by hundreds of Cheyenne warriors. You lie in the sand, trying to ignore the throbbing pain in your broken leg. It's swollen now and twisted awkwardly beneath you.
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Your friend Thomas crouches beside you. His lips are cracked and his face is sunken and covered in grime. He holds out a chunk of shriveled horse meat.
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Your stomach churns and you shake your head.
American History Tellers
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You nibble on the meat, its taste bitter and metallic, but you force yourself to chew. The throat is dry, and it takes everything in you to swallow it down.
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You look over to the ditch where your commanding officer Major Forsythe lies dying.
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Suddenly, you hear galloping horses, and your heart starts to race.
American History Tellers
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Thomas looks past you, and a grin spreads over his face. You follow his gaze where a group of black cavalrymen are galloping down the hillside.
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Shock and relief wash over you as the soldiers approach the river. You never expected to be overjoyed by the sight of black men in uniform, but one day longer and you may not have survived. On the morning of September 17, 1868, a large group of Cheyenne warriors attacked 48 white civilian scouts under the command of Major George Forsythe.
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Taking cover on a small, brushy sandbar in the Erickery River in eastern Colorado, the scouts fended off repeated charges until the warriors finally departed that night. Six men were killed and 15 wounded, and the remainder were stuck on the island without rations or medical supplies in the middle of hostile territory. But two scouts managed to slip away that night.
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For nearly five days, they wandered some 85 miles before encountering two black soldiers riding out from Fort Wallace in Kansas. The black troopers raced to alert their superior officer, Captain Lewis H. Carpenter, who quickly set out on a rescue mission with a company of 10th Cavalrymen. Three days later, the soldiers discovered a gruesome scene.
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When they approached the island in the Arikari River, the stench of death lingered in the air. Fifty dead horses formed a ring around the survivors who had been without food or water, surviving on decaying horse meat for more than eight days. Their wounds were infested with maggots, and Major George Forsyth was badly wounded, lying in a hole in the sand.
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Much to the relief of the surviving men, the 10th Cavalry troops had brought a wagon of food and supplies. They pitched tents, separated the dead from the wounded, and fed the survivors. Forsyth and his men knew that without the 10th Cavalry's rescue efforts, they would have perished.
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Black soldier Reuben Waller reflected that in the aftermath of the rescue, the White Scouts sure treated us Black soldiers right for what we had done for them. And it wouldn't be their last act of heroism.
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The 10th Cavalry came to the rescue again in mid-October, when 500 Sioux and Cheyenne warriors attacked while the Buffalo soldiers were escorting Major General Eugene Carr to his command on Beaver Creek. Carpenter's men quickly formed a defensive position and repelled the attackers with no losses on their side.
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In both incidents that fall, the 10th Cavalry had come to the rescue of white officers who had previously doubted their abilities. General Philip Sheridan personally commended the black soldiers and recommended Carpenter for a Medal of Honor. But white officers were not the only ones to receive the Medal of Honor for their bravery on the frontier.
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In Texas, the 9th Cavalry's Emanuel Stantz logged more than 630 miles of hard riding, scouting, and escorting in 1869. At the end of that year, he and other members of the 9th Cavalry's F Troop were moved to Fort McCavitt, nearly 300 miles further west.
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And on May 20, 1870, the officer in charge of F Troop learned that Apache Indians had abducted two white children four days earlier about 40 miles east. He sent Stance with a 10-man detachment to Kickapoo Springs to search for the children and apprehend the kidnappers. On the way, Stantz and his men encountered a band of Indians threatening a wagon train. He described what happened next.
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I immediately attacked by charging them. They tried hard to make a stand, but I set the Spencer rifles to talking and whistling about their ears so lively that they broke in confusion and fled to the hills. Although Stantz failed to recapture the abducted children, he had bravely defended the wagon train and recovered several stolen horses.
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As a result, Stantz's commander recommended him for a Congressional Medal of Honor, the nation's highest recognition. On July 24, 1870, the medal was presented in front of the entire garrison at Fort McCavitt.
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Stantz later reflected on his pride that day, declaring that he would cherish the gift as a thing of priceless value and endeavor by my future conduct to merit the high honor conferred upon me. He was the first Black soldier to receive a Medal of Honor in the post-Civil War period. By 1870, Buffalo Soldiers had proved their mettle in the most challenging of circumstances.
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On our show, we'll take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped America and Americans, our values, our struggles, and our dreams. We'll put you in the shoes of everyday people as history was being made. And we'll show you how the events of the times affected them, their families, and affects you now.
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But resistance remained to Black men leading within the commissioned officers' ranks. And soon, the nation's premier officer training school would become a new front in the Buffalo Soldiers' long battle for equality and justice. From Wondery, this is episode one of our three-part series, Buffalo Soldiers from American History Tellers.
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In the next episode, James Webster Smith becomes the first black cadet in the 70-year history of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. And in the desolate Staked Plains of West Texas, a routine scouting mission turns deadly. If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. Voice acting by Ace Anderson.
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This episode is written by Ellie Stanton. Edited by Dorian Marina. Produced by Alita Rosansky. Managing producer Desi Blaylock. Senior managing producer Callum Flues. Senior producer Andy Herman. And executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marsha Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
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On Christmas Day, 1866, a 19-year-old former slave named George Jordan traveled to Nashville to enlist in a new all-Black Army regiment. It was the start of a 30-year career as a professional soldier. In the Army, Jordan learned to read and write, rose to the rank of sergeant, and eventually received the nation's highest military honor.
American History Tellers
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Jordan joined one of six new black regiments created by Congress in 1866. For the first time in American history, black men had a permanent place in the U.S. military. Most were stationed in isolated posts on the frontier, charged with making the West safer settlement.
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In scorching deserts and frozen plains, black soldiers built roads, laid telegraph lines, mapped thousands of square miles, and protected railroad crews and settlers. But opening the West meant fighting and displacing the Native Americans the U.S. government deemed a threat to white settlement.
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For decades, black soldiers helped the United States wage war against Native tribes in a series of conflicts known as the Indian Wars. The Native Americans they fought dubbed them Buffalo Soldiers. During a time of intense racial turmoil in the South, service in the Army provided Black men with a steady income, education, and a chance to claim equal status as American citizens.
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But while fighting Indians on the battlefield, many Buffalo soldiers also fought prejudice within the Army. Their legacy of service is a reminder of the complicated relationship of Black soldiers to their government and to the Native people they helped suppress. This is Episode 1 in our three-part series on the Buffalo Soldiers, The Brass Letters.
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On July 6, 1863, America's leading abolitionist Frederick Douglass stood before a packed audience in Philadelphia's National Hall and delivered a rousing call to arms.
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He declared, Once we let the black man get upon his person the brass letters, U.S., let him get an eagle on his button and a musket on his shoulder and bullets in his pocket, there is no power on earth which can deny that he has earned the right to citizenship. By then, America was more than two years into the Civil War.
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President Abraham Lincoln had finally issued the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing enslaved people in the Confederate States and authorizing the enlistment of black men into the Union Army. But the idea of arming black men was controversial in both the South and the North.
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Black soldiers had fought in the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, but they had never served in the regular army, and they were banned from state militias. And even as Union army losses mounted, Lincoln and his advisors were reluctant to allow black men to take up arms. But as the Civil War dragged on and the death toll climbed, sentiment began to change.
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Over time, President Lincoln's desire to end the conflict outweighed his fears of any public backlash. So, in the wake of the Emancipation Proclamation, thousands of Black men rushed to join the Union ranks. In total, roughly 180,000 Black men served in segregated regiments known as the United States Colored Troops, or USCT.
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Christmas is the one day a year that your mother sleeps in, and the last thing you want is to have to explain yourself. But as you reach the edge of the yard, a noise stops you in your tracks. You turn around to see your younger brother, John, rubbing his eyes as he emerges from the cabin.
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They believed, as Frederick Douglass did, that Army service would help them lay claim to full citizenship once the war was won. Over the next two years, USCT soldiers fought bravely in some of the war's most brutal battles, and 16 Black soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor for their valor in combat, the nation's highest military recognition.
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By the war's end in April 1865, 40,000 Black men had died to save the Union, end slavery, and seek their own freedom and citizenship. But there were early signs that the path to citizenship would not be straightforward. In May 1865, nearly a quarter of a million Union soldiers paraded through Washington, D.C. in a celebratory Grand Review.
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The victorious Union Army marched proudly from the Capitol to the White House, past thousands of cheering, flag-waving spectators. And in the days that followed, most of the soldiers would muster out of the Army and return to civilian life. But the troops who marched down Pennsylvania Avenue that day were nearly all white.
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The black soldiers who helped carry the Union to victory were nowhere to be seen because most of them were still on active duty across the South. They would soon find themselves waging a new war. Imagine it's June 1865 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It's a hot, humid evening, and your uniform clings to your skin.
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You're a sergeant in the United States Colored Troops, charged with keeping the peace in Baton Rouge in the aftermath of the war. After a long day on patrol, you and five soldiers in your unit walk into a small bar tucked away on a dusty side street. You blink, your eyes adjusting to the dim light inside. The other patrons stare at you as you and your fellow soldiers step up to the bar.
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Six beers, please. The bartender, a white man in his fifties, looks up from the glass he's cleaning. He narrows his eyes.
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You take a deep breath, willing yourself to keep your cool.
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He slams a glass down on the bar and the room falls silent.
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The bar erupts in applause. Your men shift uneasily beside you and your muscles tense.
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The bartender's hands grip the edge of the bar, his knuckles going white, and his gaze full of venom.
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Before you can react, the bartender throws down his rag and storms around the bar coming straight for you. You glance around the room. All eyes are on you, but no one moves to help. You and your fellow soldiers are on your own. While most white soldiers mustered out of the army and made their way home, the majority of USCT soldiers remained on active duty.
American History Tellers
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Some 120,000 of them were still stationed in the South even after the war ended. Many of them had enlisted in 1863 for three-year terms, and their white officers deemed their terms incomplete. But the Army also kept the black soldiers in service for practical reasons. Army officials knew that most of the soldiers were former slaves who faced an uncertain future once they mustered out.
American History Tellers
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The New York Times explained, they would be in great measure helpless and friendless wanderers were they disbanded en masse as our white troops have been. So for the time being, tens of thousands of black soldiers remained on duty in the South. They were tasked with maintaining order, defending the Union victory, and protecting the freedom of former slaves.
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But many white Southerners refused to accept the presence of thousands of armed black men in uniform. White Southerners taunted and harassed the black soldiers they met in the street. And they did everything they could to damage their reputations.
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In Texas and Louisiana, white civilians went so far as to don blackface and disguise themselves as USCT troops before committing crimes against other whites. Even in border states like Kentucky, white legislators petitioned federal officials to replace the black soldiers with white ones.
American History Tellers
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General-in-Chief Ulysses S. Grant expressed his own concerns, describing the need to avoid unnecessary irritation and the demoralization of labor in those states. He also feared for the safety of black soldiers if they continued serving in the South. And as time went on, clashes between white Southerners and black occupation troops only became increasingly common.
American History Tellers
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In May 1866, a group of soldiers in Memphis who had recently mustered out of the USCT got into an argument with white police officers. Crowds gathered on the scene, and the argument escalated into gunfire that ignited violence across the city. After three days, 46 black people and two white people had been killed, and five black women had been raped.
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Dozens of black homes, schools, churches, and businesses were burned. The New York Times placed part of the blame on the behavior of the USCT soldiers, declaring, Since the muster out, they have frequented whiskey shops and been guilty of excesses and disorderly conduct.
American History Tellers
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This tension and violence between black soldiers and white civilians made the long-term future of black men in the Army uncertain. By the spring of 1866, a year had passed since the end of the Civil War, and most USCT regiments had been disbanded. Now the debate turned to the question of whether black men would have a permanent place in the regular peacetime Army, and resistance was fierce.
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Some Democratic legislators used racist arguments to insist that Black men were inherently unfit to serve. Other opponents pointed to recent evidence of animosity between white civilians and Black soldiers, arguing that enlisting Black soldiers would be contrary to the goal of restoring peace and harmony after the war. Delaware Senator Willard Salisbury Sr.
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declared, If you were to send Negro regiments into the community in which I live to brandish their swords, pistols, and guns, their very presence would be a stench in the nostrils of the people.
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Republican Senator Benjamin Wade responded to Salisbury, declaring, If it is necessary to station troops anywhere to keep the peace in this nation, I do not care how obnoxious they are to those who undertake to stir up sedition. Most Republican politicians wholeheartedly supported Black enlistment, pointing to Black soldiers' strong record of service in the Civil War.
American History Tellers
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And those lawmakers were well aware of the reliability of black soldiers during the war. Senator Wade insisted that black soldiers would be less likely to desert their posts than their white counterparts because of the lack of employment opportunities for black men outside the Army.
American History Tellers
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In the end, the Republican majority in Congress prevailed, and on July 28, 1866, Congress passed the Army Reorganization Act, authorizing the creation of 30 new Army regiments. This included six new segregated regiments of Black troops, two cavalry regiments, the 9th and 10th, and four infantry regiments that within three years would be consolidated into two, the 24th and the 25th.
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For the rest of the century, Black soldiers would make up roughly 10% of the U.S. Army, the total size of which hovered around 25,000 to 30,000 troops, down from 1 million at the end of the Civil War.
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Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
But legislators knew that many Black soldiers would be illiterate former slaves, so a key provision of the new law mandated that a chaplain be assigned to each regiment tasked with educating the soldiers in reading, writing, and math so that they could handle paperwork and read and write messages.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
And it was widely understood that the new regiments would be led by white commissioned officers, following the precedent set by the USCT regiments during the Civil War. Many white Americans opposed the idea of black men serving as commissioned officers, especially if they would have authority over white soldiers.
American History Tellers
Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
But despite the new law's limitations, it was a turning point in the history of the U.S. Army. And soon, white officers would turn to the task of recruiting black soldiers for their regiments. Thousands of black men would heed the call to arms, seeking a new pathway to equality and full American citizenship. American History Tellers is sponsored by Liquid IV.
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Buffalo Soldiers | The Brass Letters | 1
I'm turning 51 in a few weeks, and there's nothing I can do about that. But I do have control over my overall fitness. And since turning 50, I've lost weight, gained muscle, and have grown to really enjoy the ritual of exercise. But one thing I'm still bad at is drinking enough water. My wife can drink gallons, but me, there are days I realize I've only had coffee.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Winston Churchill rises from his seat to the sound of raucous cheering from more than 2,000 politicians, military officers, and government officials who are crammed into the House of Commons and the Canadian Parliament. But they are not the only people who will soon hear Churchill speak.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Banks of microphones are arranged on the table, transmitting the British Prime Minister's words through a loudspeaker to crowds gathered outside on Ottawa's Parliament Hill and through the radio to millions more listening at home. Churchill is here in Canada today to celebrate Britain's survival of the Blitz and galvanize support for the ongoing war against Germany and the Axis powers.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Twenty-three days ago, a surprise Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor dragged the United States into the Second World War. Churchill immediately recognized the importance of his new ally and her abundance of wealth and manpower. Within a week, he boarded a warship and took a perilous journey across the Atlantic to confer with President Roosevelt.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
He bellows that France must not surrender, and in response, another French general at the table insists that they have no choice. Hearing this, Churchill rises from his seat and raises his voice even further, loudly announcing that Britain will never surrender. In response, General Weygand rises as well. He looks Churchill in the eyes, and with a sneer, says that his plan to fight on is a fantasy.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
But while in North America, Churchill took a side trip to Canada to thank the Canadian people for their support during the dark days when Britain was at risk of invasion. And Churchill would take this moment as an opportunity to settle an old score against the French generals who predicted Britain's demise.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Churchill begins by telling the Canadians that he is grateful for all they have done to help Britain in her war with Germany. And he recalls what General Maxime Weygand told him during a council of war shortly before the French surrender.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
But as Churchill explains, Britain did not quit. She kept fighting. Pilots took to the skies during the Battle of Britain, and civilians stood firm under the onslaught of the Blitz. Given these facts, Churchill offers a cutting response to General Weygand.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Churchill goes on to say that Britain, with the support of her allies from North America, will now go on the offensive and take the fight to Germany. It will be another long and hard-fought two and a half years before Allied troops land on the beaches of Normandy during D-Day in June of 1944.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
By then, it will be clear that the tide of the war had turned and Germany's dreams of conquest will be dashed. A result that many thought inconceivable at the beginning of the conflict, but celebrated as inevitable in Churchill's famous speech to the Canadian Parliament on December 30th, 1941. Next on History Daily, December 31st, 1935.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. From Noiser and Airship, this is History Daily, hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham. Audio editing by Molly Bach. Sound design by Derek Behrens. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by Scott Reeves.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Executive producers are Stephen Walters for Airship and Pascal Hughes for Noiser. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
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History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
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History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Germany will conquer France, and when they do, the Brits will be next. In three weeks, he says, Britain will have her neck wrung like a chicken. Winston Churchill left this council of war and flew back to London with a heavy heart. He knew that the French were on the verge of capitulating to their German invaders.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
But Churchill was determined to prove General Weygand wrong by ensuring that Britain did not fall to the Nazis as well. Over the next 18 months, Churchill will lead Britain through a dark period when a German invasion was a very real possibility. Initially, the German Air Force will take to the skies, trying to destroy the Royal Air Force in what's known as the Battle of Britain.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and see American history through a whole new lens. It's June 11th, 1940, in the Chateau des Muguets, a mansion 100 miles south of Paris, one month after German troops invaded France in the beginning of World War II. British Prime Minister Winston Churchill sits at the head of a conference table.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Later, the Nazis will bomb civilians in an unrelenting campaign called the Blitz. In the end, Britain will survive these threats, and Churchill will deliver a famous rebuttal to General Vigin during a rousing speech to the Canadian Parliament on December 30, 1941.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day. Because when you feed your pet Hills, you help feed a shelter pet, which makes them healthy, happy, and more adoptable. changing their life forever so they can change yours. Over 15 million shelter pets fed and adopted. Science did that. Visit hillspet.com slash podcast to learn more.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
From Noiser and Airship, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is History Daily. History is made every day. On this podcast, every day, we tell the true stories of the people and events that shaped our world. Today is December 30th, 1941. Winston Churchill's Some Chicken Speech. It's nearing the end of September 1940, two months after the Battle of Britain began.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
In the skies over southern England, 20-year-old pilot officer Bob Foster nudges his control stick and glances at the two aircraft flying alongside his plane. He wants to make sure he does not drift out of this three-plane formation of British Hurricane fighters. Then he turns and looks out the cockpit window, scanning the skies for the enemy aircraft his squadron has been sent to intercept.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Foster is nervous, but excited. He's been flying combat missions for less than a month, and although he's been involved in a few dogfights, he has yet to shoot down an enemy plane. Today, he might just get his chance.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
After the French surrendered to Germany three months ago, Adolf Hitler and his generals quickly turned their attention to Britain, the last major power in Europe to remain in the war. The German air force, known as the Luftwaffe, began an onslaught from above, hoping to destroy the Royal Air Force, or RAF.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Once they were neutralized, Hitler planned to send German troops across the English Channel to invade Britain. But British fighter pilots did not give up without a fight. They flew several missions a day, aiming to intercept German bombers and their fighter escorts before they could destroy British airfields and radar stations.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Now, pilot officer Foster hopes to break up another enemy raiding party. But there's a problem. He can't find them. as Foster scans the horizon for signs of the enemy planes. A voice over the radio barks in order to break, break, break. Foster doesn't hesitate. He immediately turns his stick and pulls away from the other two planes.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
It doesn't take Foster long to see why he was ordered to break formation. Right behind them are three enemy fighters. Foster recognizes their shape as Messerschmitt 109s. These German fighter planes are faster and can climb quicker than Foster's Hurricane. and they are attacking from behind, where fighters are most vulnerable.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Foster turns tightly, trying to shake the enemy aircraft off his tail, but his stomach sinks as he hears a muffled explosion and sees the plane of one of his compatriots on fire and dropping out of the sky like a flaming stone. Foster keeps an eye on the blazing wreck as it falls, and he doesn't see a parachute before it drops into the sea. Foster completes his tight turn and then levels out.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
When he checks the skies around him, he realizes he's alone. His mid-air evasive maneuvers helped him escape from the German 109s, which he assumes scarpered off as quickly as they appeared. But he has also lost the third plane of his formation. Foster searches the skies again, and this time spots a dot in the distance. It's a plane flying steady and level.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Foster thinks it must be the other hurricane, so he grips his control stick, picks up speed, and tries to catch up. He hopes the two fighters can land together to report the sad loss of their comrade. But as he gets closer to the other aircraft, Foster realizes something isn't right. He squints and tries to focus on the shape of its tail.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
He takes a sip from a cup of tea and silently stares down the British and French officers seated around him. But the moment of quiet is interrupted by the sound of fighter planes flying overhead. Churchill puts down his cup of tea and addresses the war council before him.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
And when he sees it, he realizes it's not a hurricane, but an enemy 109, one of the planes that had attacked him. But Foster notices something else, too. As he closes in, the 109 does not make any attempt to alter its course, which means the German pilot has no idea he's being followed. Foster peers through his gun sight, putting the enemy plane in the center.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
His thumb rests on the firing button that controls the eight machine guns ranged along his wings. He closes in just a little bit tighter, then presses his thumb down and the guns let loose. Foster's heart leaps as smoke pours out of the 109's engine. The enemy plane's nose drops, then sinks into a vertical dive.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Foster feels little contrition as he sees the wings shear off the plane, sending it spiraling to the ground. Then he turns for his home airfield, pleased that he's finally achieved his first kill in the Battle of Britain. The Nazis' attempt to take Britain might have succeeded were it not for the bravery of British and Allied airmen like Pilot Officer Foster.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Eventually, the Nazis give up trying to overcome the stubborn resistance of the RAF. Winston Churchill will pay tribute to the pilots who fended them off, saying, "...never was so much owed by so many to so few." But victory in the Battle of Britain comes at a price. More than 1,500 British and Allied pilots are killed. But their sacrifice will force the German high command to pivot.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Unable to secure dominance in the skies, the Nazis will shelve their plans for an invasion. Instead, the Nazis will try to bomb Britain's civilian population into submission in a terror campaign known as the Blitz.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
He doesn't mince words, saying that if the French army does not muster a defense of their country, France will fall into the clutches of the Nazis. Churchill clamps a cigar between his teeth and lights up. As he blows smoke across the table, he demands to know how the French generals plan to launch a successful counterattack. For a few awkward moments, the generals squirm, looking uncomfortable.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
It's midnight on December 29th, 1940, three months after the Battle of Britain ends. 27-year-old volunteer firefighter Leonard Rosamond hops out of a fire truck that's just parked on Shoe Lane, a street in the center of London. Although the sky is pitch black, Leonard has no trouble seeing his way because a fire blazes in a tall building along the street.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Leonard unrolls a hose and grips it tightly before shouting to a colleague to turn the water on. For Leonard, this is his routine. Nearly every day for the last month and a half, Leonard has been battling fires started by bombs dropped by German aircraft. After the Luftwaffe failed to destroy the RAF in the Battle of Britain, Adolf Hitler ordered his airmen to change their strategy.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Rather than knocking out Britain's air force in advance of an invasion, he decided to bomb the British people until they gave up and demanded a ceasefire. Six weeks ago, the Luftwaffe began nighttime bombing raids on towns and cities all across Britain. The Blitz, as it's known, aims to demolish factories, leave civilians homeless, and destroy critical infrastructure.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
But firefighters like Leonard are determined to minimize the damage and keep Britain in the war. Facing the blaze, Leonard steadies his feet and tightens his grip on the hose. He feels it tense and buck as water shoots out the end. A second firefighter runs to assist Leonard, and together they aim the water through the shattered windows of the blazing building.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Here in the center of the city, most civilians spend the night sheltering in the underground train stations deep beneath the streets. But even though the building is likely empty, Leonard knows that the fire might quickly spread if he doesn't put it out. Leonard's arms and shoulders begin to ache under the weight of the water gushing forth from the hose.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
But he and his colleague fight through the pain and continue spraying the building until they're able to stop the flames from spreading. But they can't seem to extinguish the fire. After a few minutes, a senior firefighter signals to Leonard to let another man take his place on the hose, and Leonard is grateful for the break.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
His arms and back ache, but after only a few moments rest, Leonard is eager to get back to dousing the blaze. He's instructed to set up a second hose in a different location, hoping to fight the flames on two fronts. Leonard nods and walks toward the fire engine to make preparations. but an ominous cracking sound makes him stop.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Leonard turns to see the top half of the blazing building begin to topple forward as its front wall collapses. For a split second, the wall seems to hang in midair, and it crashes down to the street right on top of the two firefighters where Leonard was just standing moments ago. Leonard rushes over to dig his comrades out of the hot rubble, but he already knows their fate.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
There's no way they could have survived the wall's collapse. Eight hours later, Leonard walks down Shoe Lane as dawn begins to break, the sun's light streaking through smoke, still billowing from the now-extinguished fire. But Leonard has a heavy heart.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
In a few hours' time, the Luftwaffe bombing raids will begin again, and Leonard will have to resume his firefighting duties, but this time without two of his colleagues, whose bodies are still buried beneath the rubble. Leonard looks around at the bustling street. Now that the air raid is over, a new day is beginning, and everyday life resumes in London.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Men in smart suits walk to their offices, stepping around debris on the sidewalk. A milkman wanders along with his crate, whistling a tune. Leonard even sees a young mother pushing a stroller down the middle of the street, its wheels bouncing over fallen bricks. As she passes Leonard, he hears her talking to her baby, pointing at the pristine white dome of St.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
until General Maxime Weygand clears his throat. Weygand says there's no way France can stop the Nazis, and they should ask for a ceasefire. Many generals in the room nod and make known their approval of surrender, but Churchill is livid. He slams his hands down on the table, shocking the room into silence again.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
Paul's Cathedral, saying, Look at that. They can bomb London all they want, but they'll never burn St. Paul's. Leonard can't help but smile. The deaths of two firefighters is a tragedy. But Leonard knows that his work is making a difference. Londoners are carrying on and living as normal a life as possible. Hitler's plan to bomb Britain into submission is failing.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
And the devastation of the Blitz does not lead to calls from British civilians to end the war. If anything, it makes them more determined. Britons will hold out over months of nightly attacks until the German high command is forced to change strategy once again, focusing instead on attacking naval convoys in what is known as the Battle of the Atlantic.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Winston Churchill’s Famous “Some Chicken” Speech
And with the immediate threat of defeat over, Winston Churchill will travel to North America to celebrate his nation's perseverance in a speech to Canadian Parliament that will survive the ages.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
It's January 27, 1944, in the Field of Mars, a large square in the center of Leningrad, 872 days after the siege began. 49-year-old Soviet General Leonid Govorov raises his saber high above his head. He holds it there, enjoying the sense of anticipation that ripples through the vast crowd of men before him. The siege of Leningrad is over and the city is free.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Eighteen months ago, General Govorov was appointed commander of the Soviet forces in Leningrad. He launched a number of offensives on the Germans surrounding the city, and bit by bit, he seized and widened corridors through enemy lines to allow more supplies through. Then, only two weeks ago, General Gavirov stepped up his campaign.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
He ordered a wider counterattack that pushed the Germans and their allies away from Leningrad, finally lifting the siege of the city after more than two years. Although the Soviet attack continues to push the enemy away from Leningrad, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin has declared that the siege is over, and General Gavirov has returned to Leningrad to lead the city's celebrations.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
The general slowly lowers his uplifted saber, and 324 guns lined up in neat rows fire simultaneously. For the first time in years, the people of Leningrad don't run for cover when they hear the sound of artillery. Instead, the crowd cheers to loud explosions. It's soon followed by another, and another, and in total, the guns fire 24 volleys.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
And as this artillery rings out in celebration, the guns on Soviet warships offshore open fire too. A few church bells join in, although there aren't many that have survived the German bombardment. Instead, Leningrad is a scene of devastation.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Few buildings have survived unscathed, and no one knows for certain how many Soviet citizens and soldiers have been killed or died of sickness and starvation during the long months of the German assault. The siege of Leningrad will be remembered as one of the most brutal battles of a brutal war. But the city's successful resistance will also become a symbol of Soviet defiance.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Nearly 3 million people will be left trapped inside the city, and they'll remain there for almost 900 days. More than a million soldiers and civilians will die, and Leningrad will be reduced to ash and rubble before the longest siege of World War II finally comes to an end on January 27, 1944. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
In his symphony, inspired by the city, composer Dmitri Shostakovich promised that after all Leningrad's suffering, victory would one day come, and he was right. Eventually, Red Army soldiers will advance more than 1,000 miles to the German capital of Berlin, where they will bring an end to Adolf Hitler's Nazi regime, 15 months after the siege of Leningrad ended on January 27, 1944.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Next on History Daily, January 28th, 1069. The death of the Earl of Northumbria leads William the Conqueror to unleash a terrible vengeance on the people of Northern England. From Noiser and Airship, this is History Daily. Hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham. Audio editing by Mohamed Shazi. Sound design by Molly Bond. Music by Throne.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
This episode is written and researched by Owen Long. Edited by Scott Reeves. Managing producer, Emily Burke. Executive producers are William Simpson for Airship and Pascal Hughes for Noiser. If you like American history tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day. Because when you feed your pet Hills, you help feed a shelter pet, which makes them healthy, happy, and more adoptable, changing their life forever so they can change yours. Over 15 million shelter pets fed and adopted. Science did that. Visit hillspet.com slash podcast to learn more.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
From Noiser and Airship, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is History Daily. History is made every day. On this podcast, every day, we tell the true stories of the people and events that shaped our world. Today is January 27th, 1944, the end of the siege of Leningrad. It's August 9, 1942, at the Grand Philharmonia Hall in Leningrad, almost a year into the siege of the city.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Backstage, 35-year-old orchestra conductor Carl Eliasberg paces nervously, his three-piece suit flapping loosely around his emaciated body. Carl is preparing for the most important performance of his life, but the constant artillery fire outside is making it difficult to focus.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
When German leader Adolf Hitler ordered his generals to invade the USSR in 1941, he confidently predicted a speedy victory. German intelligence suggested that the Soviet Red Army was poorly armed and would not be able to mobilize in time to repel the Germans. But after its initial advance, the German offensive was slowed by unexpectedly fierce resistance.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
When the invasion extended into winter, Hitler was forced to rethink Germany's military strategy. Rather than seek a quick victory, he instead vowed to burn the USSR to the ground, and there was no place he wanted to destroy more than Leningrad, the birthplace of Bolshevism, named after the father of the revolution, Vladimir Lenin. And by 1941, Leningrad was surrounded.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
A month ago, Nazi Germany broke its non-aggression pact with the USSR and attacked Russia with the biggest invasion force in the history of warfare. Since then, German forces have advanced rapidly. Now, Leningrad is under attack, and Maria is risking her life to evacuate the children in her care before the Germans cut off all escape routes from the city.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
During the winter, the Soviets could resupply Leningrad through a single route known as the Road of Life, a dangerous crossing across a frozen lake. But now that it's summer, the lake has thawed, and Leningrad is completely cut off from the outside world. Stocks of medicine are dwindling, food stores are nearly depleted, and no one is sure how much longer the city will hold.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Facing the prospect of starvation or annihilation, the people of Leningrad are in need of a morale boost, so orchestra conductor Karl hopes that a rousing concert will be a welcome distraction. During the first weeks of the German invasion, composer Dmitri Shostakovich began writing a symphony he titled Leningrad.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
As a resident of the city, he continued composing his music even as bombs fell around him. And although the symphony was completed outside Leningrad, the work came to symbolize the resistance of the Soviet people, so authorities decided to perform it inside the besieged city itself. The sheet music was flown in covertly by night and presented to Leningrad's most famous orchestra.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Speakers were then installed in the streets to allow all citizens to listen in, and now Carl is ready to lead his musicians in the most remarkable performance he's ever given. But it will only work if the shelling stops so that people can actually hear it. Carl peers out of a window, careful to stand back in case the glass suddenly shatters.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
But he realizes it's not German artillery going off, it's Soviet guns that are firing. Despite the shortage of ammunition, Soviet generals have authorized a special attack designed to silence the Germans for just this one evening.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
As the time of the performance approaches, the Soviet guns stop firing, and since the Germans are pinned down in their bunkers by the onslaught, they aren't in a position to return fire on Leningrad, so the city is suddenly and miraculously quiet. Karl hurries into the auditorium. Leningrad officials, politicians, and military officers are waiting for him in the tiered seating.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
But Carl is thinking more about the far larger audience of ordinary people outside. He smiles at his nervous musicians. And just like the city, the orchestra is a shadow of its former self. Almost half of Carl's musicians are gone, evacuated, starved to death, or killed by enemy artillery. The empty chairs scattered across the stage are a bitter reminder of what all of them have lost.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Karl takes a deep breath. Then he raises his baton, lowers it softly, and his ragtag orchestra of starved and traumatized musicians begins to play. The 90-minute symphony is composed of four movements—war, reminiscence, home expanses, and victory. The early acts reflect the horror of the siege, while the later movements promise a Soviet triumph to come.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Outside, the streets are filled with the music, and the people of Leningrad listen intently— They know the symbolism of the performance, and they're proud of their stubborn resistance. Rather than falling to the German army as Hitler predicted, the Nazis remain outside the city, frustrated at a stalemate and terrified of the coming winter.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
When the performance is over, Karl lowers his baton and turns to accept the applause of the audience. His orchestra's music will act as a ray of hope across the besieged city, but darker days will follow.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
The German assault will continue for almost six months more, and thousands will die before the Soviet army will finally stage a daring counter-assault in the hope of breaking the relentless siege and bringing relief to the people of Leningrad. American History Tellers is sponsored by Liquid IV. I'm turning 51 in a few weeks, and there's nothing I can do about that.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
But I do have control over my overall fitness. And since turning 50, I've lost weight, gained muscle, and have grown to really enjoy the ritual of exercise. But one thing I'm still bad at is drinking enough water. My wife can drink gallons, but me, there are days I realize I've only had coffee. So it's time to add hydration to my ritual, and I'm looking forward to my shipment from Liquid IV.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
A bomb lands at the other end of the street, and the children throw themselves to the ground. Maria urges them back to their feet again. They're too exposed to enemy fire out in the open. Maria decides they must get to the train station, so they have to keep moving. But as the children get up, another plane roars overhead.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
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History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
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American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
It's early on February 10th, 1943, just outside the Russian town of Krasny Bor, 17 months after the siege of Leningrad began. The sun has not yet risen, meaning that 46-year-old Soviet Lieutenant General Vladimir Zviridov must squint through the darkness at his enemy.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Though he can't yet make them out, General Zviridov knows that there are Spanish volunteers allied with the Germans entrenched between his own forces and Krasny Bor. The town lies 12 miles southeast of the center of Leningrad, on the main road to the Soviet capital Moscow.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
The Spanish troops defending it are dug in deep, but General Zviridov has been tasked with capturing the town and punching a hole in the enemy forces which have been strangling Leningrad for a year and a half. Since the siege began, the people of Leningrad have relied on small supplies of food and medicine, sneaked through enemy lines.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Bullets shatter the windows in a nearby apartment block, and the children scream. But Maria can see the train station entrance now. It isn't far. Picking up one small child who's sobbing uncontrollably, she hurries the others along the street as fast as she can. Finally, they run into the train station's cavernous lobby. It's packed with people also desperate to escape the city.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Initially, the Road of Life across the frozen lake was the only route in for aid. But recently, a Soviet attack opened up another corridor. At five miles wide, this new route was big enough to build a railroad through it, but the trains were still in range of enemy artillery. Every attempt to reach Leningrad was fraught with danger, and many lives were lost running the gauntlet of enemy guns.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
So a few days ago, General Sviridov was told to widen the corridor by capturing the town of Krasny Bor. If he fails, he knows that hundreds of thousands more Soviet civilians and soldiers will die of starvation, and the Germans may finally achieve their goal of breaking the will of the defenders of Leningrad.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
But if General Sviridov succeeds, the Soviet army may be able to put the German invaders on the back foot and begin the liberation of Leningrad. As the sun rises, General Sviridov orders his men to begin the attack. A thousand guns fire simultaneously, catching the Spanish by surprise. Dirt, ice, and rubble fly into the air as the ground is ripped apart by explosions.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Through his binoculars, General Sviridov watches as hundreds of Spanish troops are cut down by the relentless Soviet barrage. But the Spanish volunteers are zealous believers in the fascist cause, and they don't retreat. So after two hours of non-stop shelling, General Sviridov orders a frontal assault. There are only 6,000 Spanish soldiers against his nearly 40,000 Soviet troops and 30 tanks.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
But the Red Army has been weakened by months of limited rations, and General Sviridov knows the Spanish will put up a fierce resistance. The Soviet soldiers approach the Spanish defenses in tanks, on foot, and on skis, and they have to fight for every yard of their advance. The Spanish soldiers sprint from their foxholes and trenches, launching grenades and Molotov cocktails.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
They form choke points to slow the advance and spring deadly ambushes from hidden bunkers. The casualties are horrific. But eventually, the sheer weight of numbers on the Red Army's side win the day. General Spiridov's men fight their way through the defenses and into the town of Krasny Bor.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
By the time they do, the sun is high in the sky, and the destruction wrought by the Soviet artillery is plain to see. Spanish soldiers lie in the rubble, wounded and dying. Medics scramble among the wreckage, carrying the injured away to a makeshift hospital. But General Sviridov isn't prepared to show mercy.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Just as Adolf Hitler is willing to destroy Leningrad to teach the Soviet people a lesson, so General Sviridov is willing to annihilate the enemy forces at Krasny Bar to complete his mission. He lifts a radio to his mouth and orders his artillery to bombard the town's hospital and his snipers to target the medics.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
After hours of fighting, only a handful of Spanish soldiers remain alive inside Krasny Bor. Soviet tanks then proceed to their main objective, the town's train station, where the last Spanish defenders are soon killed.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
When General Sviridov finally walks through the rubble and into the train station, his officers tell him that the attack has cost them nearly 10,000 men, but the town is back in Soviet hands. This battle of Krasny Bor will go down in history as one of the most vicious battles of World War II. The Soviet victory there will be less decisive than expected, though.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
It's late summer 1941 in Leningrad, the second largest city in the Soviet Union. A school teacher named Maria hurries a group of young children through the streets. Overhead, German fire planes swoop low, spewing machine gun fire. Maria has the children stick close to the brick walls of the buildings lining the street, desperately trying to find safety.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Although the Soviets have broken through German lines, elsewhere the enemy will respond by digging in even deeper. The deadly siege of Leningrad will continue, and it will take another, even more brutal assault a year later to finally liberate the city.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The End of the Siege of Leningrad
Maria knows the children with her are more protected here than out on the streets, but she also knows they won't truly be safe until they've escaped Leningrad. It will take several more weeks for the German forces to finally cut off the last safe route out of Leningrad. But after that, there will be no escape.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Left humiliated and weakened, the country fractures into warring factions, and eventually Europeans will take advantage of this power vacuum. The British will come, and India will be subjugated under their colonial rule for more than a century.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But not even the British Empire will expand its reach over Asia as far as Nadir Shah did, the shepherd who became a king of kings and master of a continent after he won victory at the Battle of Karnal on February 24, 1739. Next on History Daily, February 25th, 1964, a young Muhammad Ali defeats Sonny Liston to become heavyweight champion of the world.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
From Noiser and Airship, this is History Daily. Hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham. Audio editing by Mohamed Shazi. Sound design by Molly Bond. Supervising sound designer, Matthew Filler. Music by Thrun. This episode is written and researched by Owen Paul Nichols. Edited by William Simpson. Managing producer, Emily Burke.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Executive producers are William Simpson for Airship and Pascal Hughes for Noiser. If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
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American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Join Wondery+, in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, and embark on an unparalleled journey through America's most pivotal moments. From Noiser and Airship, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is History Daily. History is made every day. On this podcast every day, we tell the true stories of the people and events that shaped our world. Today is February 24th, 1739, the Battle of Carnal.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
It's 1722 in the province of Khorasan in northeast Persia, 14 years after Nadir Kohli killed his first wolf. Now 24 years old, Nadir perches on a high mountain bluff and peers down into the valley below. An army is on the march. The shimmering column of men and metal kicks up a cloud of dust as it snakes its way through the valley, heading west.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Nadir turns to the man next to him and barks a short command. They need to hide before they're spotted. Nadir is now far more than just the son of a shepherd. His doting father died when Nadir was 13 years old, leaving him with the responsibility of caring for his mother and his siblings. To support his family, the teenage Nadir joined a gang of bandits.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But despite his young age, he was stronger and smarter than the other thieves in the gang, and it wasn't too long before he took charge. Under his leadership, the gang has grown into an army of 2,000 men, and Nadir is now recognized as a powerful warlord in the region. Persia, though, is in turmoil.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
The army Nadir watches from the hills is a group of Afghan rebels from the east, and they are marching toward the Persian capital. Nadir watches and makes careful note of the rebels' strength, but he does nothing to intervene. He doesn't have the men to stop such a mighty army, not yet.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
The Afghan rebels continue their march to the Persian capital and soon overthrow the ruling Shah there to seize the throne for themselves. But this power struggle has left Persia weakened, and that vulnerability is soon exploited by the country's enemies. Armies invade from Russia in the north and the Ottoman Empire in the west.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Mid the chaos, Tomas, the son of the deposed Shah, escapes the clutches of the Afghans and flees to Khorasan. There, he begs Nadir for help. Nadir has no great love for Tomas, but he doesn't have much sympathy for the Afghan rebels either. And he knows that if he can help Tomas win back the throne, then he will be a powerful figure in the new regime. So he agrees to join forces.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Less than 100 feet away, a wolf feasts on the entrails of a fat-tailed sheep. Nadir looks over at his father, and his father nods. This is the animal they've been hunting. For days, this wolf has been picking off the family's flock of sheep one by one. Now they've finally found the predator, and Nadir's father wants him to take the shot.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But the Afghan rebels are a formidable enemy. Predominantly fighting on horseback, they have a highly mobile and effective army that has defeated all threats to their rule so far. But Nader has a plan. Gunpowder has been used in combat in Asia since at least the 11th century.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But the use of muskets and cannon on the battlefield is still rare, with widespread belief that there is more honor in fighting with swords. Nadir, however, cares more about victory than honor. He invests heavily in the latest artillery and muskets and carefully trains his soldiers how to use the weapons properly.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
So when the battle comes, it is a clash between different fighting philosophies as much as different armies. The Afghans are fast-moving and ferocious. In contrast, Nadir's men are cautious and controlled, firing and moving as units in highly disciplined ranks. Their greater organization eventually pays off with victory over the men on horseback.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Following this defeat of the Afghan rebels, Tamas takes back the Persian throne. And as reward for his support, he appoints Nadir as governor of the eastern provinces and offers him the hand of his sister in marriage. Just as he hoped, Nadir is now one of the most powerful men in the land.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
He follows up his military success against the Afghans by leading armies to reclaim Persian lands in the west and north. These territories were seized by Persia's enemies during the Afghan rebellion. But now Persia wants them back, and quickly, Nader wins a string of victories and steadily reclaims the land that was lost.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But his successes on the battlefield makes the new Shah, Tamas, increasingly wary of Nadir. For his part, Nadir considers the new Shah a weak man and quickly grows frustrated with his rule. So that in 1732, he runs out of patience and rises up against Temasp. He installs Temasp's infant son as the new Shah, but no one is in any doubt about where the true power lies in Persia.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But even having to pull puppet strings is soon too much for Nadir. Just a few years later, he sends the boy king into exile and claims the throne for himself. As the unchallenged Shah of Persia, Nader will look beyond the borders of his kingdom for fresh conquests, and soon his gaze will turn to India and the great wealth of the mighty Mughal Empire.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
It's Nadir's birthday, and now that he's 10 years old, his father thinks he's old enough for the responsibility. With his bow and arrow in his hands, Nadir slowly and silently rises to his feet. One wrong move, and the animal could flee. Taking a final, calming breath, Nadir takes aim and lets loose. The wolf flinches in pain before slumping to the ground.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
It's February 24th, 1739, at the Parisian encampment near Karnal in northern India, three years after Nadir Kohli became Nadir Shah, ruler of Persia. In his tent, 41-year-old Nadir Shah looks over a table of maps and charts as he and three of his most senior commanders make their plans for a coming battle.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Since he seized the throne, Nadir Shah has been devoted to one task, expanding the Persian Empire. He's already retaken the lands previously lost to the Ottomans and the Russians, and he's conquered the last strongholds held by the Afghan rebels who once threatened all of Persia. Now he's come to India.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But when Nadir Shah first crossed the border, he told representatives of the Mughal Empire that rules here that he was simply pursuing the last Afghan rebels who had fled into India. But his true objective soon became clear, as his men ransacked and pillaged their way south. Nadir Shah had launched a war of conquest, believing that India's vast wealth is there for the taking.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But in response, the Mughal emperor, Mohammad Shah, raised a vast army and marched north to face him. But his army was so big that it couldn't move quickly, and it traveled just 70 miles from Delhi by the time the advancing Persians intercepted it. Now, Nadir and his generals finalized their plans for battle. On paper, the Persians are no match for the Mughal army.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
The Mughals are in a strong position. Encamped across a river, they outnumber the invaders by as many as six to one. But poor odds have never stopped Nadir before. He wants to divide the Mughal forces and lure the enemy into battle at a time and place of his choosing. And luckily for Nadir, he knows that the Mughals are already divided.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Commanders in charge of different parts of the army have little trust in each other, and Muhammad Shah is not strong enough a leader to manage his generals' differences. Hoping to take advantage of this acrimony, Nadir I orders a few cavalry units forward. They launch an attack on an isolated Mughal baggage train.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
This prompts an immediate response from the general in charge, and the Persian cavalry beats a hasty retreat, but it's all a ruse. Nadir wants a portion of the Mughal army to cross the river and follow his cavalry, and the Mughals oblige. As one Mughal general leads his men forward, back in their camp, indecision reigns.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Muhammad Shah wants to throw the bulk of his men forward in support of his general's attack, but the other commanders are not convinced. Eventually, it's decided that just another 8,000 men will be pushed forward to reinforce the attack across the river. But they fail to join up with the original thrust, which by now has raced ahead in pursuit of the Persian cavalry luring the Mughals into a trap.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
When the retreating horsemen reach the safety of their main battle lines, the Persian infantry unleashes a volley of musket and cannon fire that devastates the pursuing Mughal forces. Meanwhile, Nadir dispatches some of his best troops to meet the 8,000 Mughal reinforcements still coming up behind.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Once again, Nadir's plan is to lure them into an ambush, and once again the Mughals fall right into the trap, marching straight into a chokepoint in a small village where Nadir himself waits with artillery. The results of the ambush are devastating. The Mughal war elephants suffer especially badly.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Although terrifying when they're on the charge, elephants prove an easy target for Persian artillery. And in the face of overwhelming cannon fire, the creatures scatter in terror and their riders crash to the ground as all discipline in the Mughal lines disintegrates. Confusion and despair spread through the ranks and thousands are killed in the chaos.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Nadir smiles with relief as his father jumps to his feet to congratulate him. It's a clean shot right through the heart. Nadir Kohli's father has always been certain that his boy is special. When Nadir was young, his father was told by a fortune teller that his son was destined for greatness, that one day he would not just be a king, but a king of kings.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
From the safety of his camp on the other side of the river, the Mughal leader Muhammad Shah can hear the barrage of Persian gunfire and the screams of elephants. With many of his best troops lost and morale among the survivors collapsing, it's clear to him that the battle is lost.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Nadir Shah's triumph at Karnal will soon lead him to march on Delhi to claim the Indian capital for the Persian Empire. But this battle will have more than just an immediate impact on the region. The defeat of the Mughal Empire will fragment the entire Indian subcontinent and leave it vulnerable to invaders from much farther afield.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
It's the morning of August 6, 1708, in the province of Khorasan in northeast Persia. Clutching a bow at his side, 10-year-old Nadir Kohli scurries up a hill in the footsteps of his father. Reaching the top first, his father holds out a hand in warning, and Nadir freezes. His father points silently down the other side of the hill.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
It's March 20th, 1739, in Delhi, capital of the Mughal Empire, almost a month after the Battle of Karnal. Nadir Shah rides through the palace gates at the head of his triumphant Persian army. Among his entourage are a hundred captured war elephants, as well as a far more valuable prize, the Mughal leader himself, Muhammad Shah.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Following his defeat at Karnal, Muhammad Shah had no choice but to negotiate with the Persians. Nadir spared his life, but the once mighty Mughals are now just a vassal state of the Persian Empire. Nadir Shah now rules over a domain that stretches 2,000 miles from the Black Sea to the heart of India.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
This latest addition to his empire is the wealthiest yet, and Nadir wastes no time in seizing its riches. After he is installed in the palace, he immediately sends out his troops to begin the looting. But the people of India resist their new Persian ruler. Rioting soon breaks out in Delhi in opposition to the regime.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Bhadir slaughters those who rise up against him, but the violence convinces him that there is no future for the Persians in India. He decides to leave the country and take its vast wealth with him. So, two months after arriving in Delhi, he loads up his treasure onto thousands of camels, horses, and elephants and leads his army of conquerors out of India.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
Nadir's father does not live long enough to see it, but the soothsayer will be proved right. Nadir will be a king and then an emperor, and almost all of Asia will be at his command after he wins a stunning victory at the Battle of Karnal on February 24th, 1739. You're listening ad-free on Wondery+.
American History Tellers
History Daily: The Battle of Karnal
But despite arriving back in his homeland a conqueror, Nadir will prove an increasingly unpopular leader. He will grow paranoid and cruel. And in 1747, eight years after his triumph in India, he will be assassinated by his own troops. The Mughal Empire doesn't fare much better. They never recover from Nadir Shah's invasion.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Get started at AnytimeFitness.com. It's December 16th, 1905, at Cardiff Arms Park. The match of the century between Wales and the All Blacks is approaching the full-time whistle. Wales are leading the game by three points to nil, but the All Blacks have the ball, with winger Bob Deans racing for Wales' try line.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
If he scores, the game will be tied, and then the All Blacks will have the opportunity to take a penalty kick to win the match. So as Bob bounds across the turf, the ball clutched under one arm. Behind him, two Welsh players, Teddy Morgan and Rhys Gabe, give chase. But they can't catch Bob Deans, who is now mere feet from the try line.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Realizing that it's now or never, Rhys makes a desperate lunge. His flailing arms wrap around Deans' knees and drags the New Zealander to the ground. The referee blows his whistle, and the crowd cheers. But Bob Deans pops up off the turf and begins a spirited conversation with the referee. Bob insists that the ball went over the line and that a try should be awarded to New Zealand, tying the game.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The referee wavers and looks to his peers. But the official monitoring the touchline disagrees, declaring that Bob Deans did not make it to the try line. Wales has awarded a scrummage deep within their own half, but with a chance to run down the clock. And a few minutes later, the referee blows the final whistle. Wales has beaten the All Blacks and emerged on top in the match of the century.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
It is the first and only occasion that New Zealand will be beaten on their UK tour. And the game will go down as one of the greatest days in the history of Welsh rugby. Three years later, All Blacks player Bob Deans will die from complications from an appendix operation, and he will use his last breath to still insist the referee in Cardiff was mistaken and he should have been awarded the try.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
In 2005, the centennial of the famous match will be celebrated with another game between Wales and the All Blacks in Cardiff. This time, the All Blacks will have their revenge, winning the game by 41 points to three.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
But after this performance, Edwin is convinced that these New Zealand players aren't men at all, but actual animals. Still, as the whistle blows for kickoff, for the first time all morning, Edwin feels nervous. Edwin's nerves are well-founded. Devon will go on to suffer a humiliating defeat to New Zealand, losing the game 55 points to four.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Still, their victory will not diminish the achievement of Tom Williams, Gwynn Nicholls, Teddy Morgan, and the rest of the Welsh team when they defeated the dominant All Blacks on December 16th, 1905. Next, on History Daily, December 17, 1398, the mighty nomadic warlord Timur captures and sacks the Indian city of Delhi, causing the deaths of 100,000 people.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
From Noiser and Airship, this is History Daily. Hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham. Audio editing by Molly Bond. Sound design by Derek Behrens. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by Joe Viner. Produced by Alexander Curry Buckner. Executive producers are Stephen Walters for Airship and Pascal Hughes for Noiser.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The defeat will cause a sensation, with newspapers around the country proclaiming it a dark day for English rugby. But Devon will not be the last to fall victim to New Zealand, who will go on to win their next 26 matches. Soon, New Zealand's distinctive uniform will earn them a nickname, the All Blacks.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
And their pre-game ceremonial dance, the haka, will strike fear into the hearts of every opposing team they encounter. But the indomitable All Blacks will soon encounter their biggest challenge to date when they play the UK's smallest nation, Wales, in a hotly anticipated clash that will come to be known as the Match of the Century on December 16th, 1905.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
From Noiser and Airship, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is History Daily. History is made every day. On this podcast, every day, we tell the true stories of the people and events that shaped our world. Today is December 16, 1905, Rugby Union's Match of the Century. It's October 19th, 1905, in Gloucester, in the English Midlands, one month after New Zealand's victory in Devon.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Spectators crowd the stadium where the local Gloucester rugby club is about to take on the visiting New Zealanders. Low-lying fog shrouds the pitch as both sets of players assume formation. Gloucester in their traditional red and white stripes, New Zealand in their distinctive black.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Edwin Cox, Devon's captain, leads his teammates in a passing drill. The hundreds of spectators who have come to watch today's clash all expect Devon to win, and the crowd's confidence has rubbed off on the players. Edwin notices that morale is high among his teammates as they throw the ball around, laughing and joking, as if getting ready for a friendly Sunday game in the park.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Children in the crowd stand on tiptoes to catch a glimpse of the famous visiting team, now commonly known as the All Blacks. Before the game starts, the All Blacks perform their traditional ceremonial routine, known as the haka. The captain emits a guttural war cry in the Maori language, the indigenous tongue of New Zealand.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The players respond by making a series of rhythmic hand gestures and frightening facial expressions designed to intimidate and unnerve their opponents. The Gloucester players watch in bemused silence, unsure what to make of the strange display. But once the haka is over, the referee blows his whistle and the game begins. The All Blacks receive the ball first and immediately are on the attack.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
They ship the ball out wide to their winger, Duncan McGregor, who dashes for the try line and scores with fewer than 10 seconds on the clock. The crowd cheers, even the Gloucester fans, who have to applaud such remarkable athletic prowess. Among the impressed onlookers is Tom Williams. Tom used to be a player himself. Now he's an administrator for the Welsh Rugby Union.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
In two months, Wales are due to play the All Blacks in Cardiff in the final match of the New Zealand team's UK tour. This will be the All Blacks' toughest challenge yet. In Wales, rugby is more a religion than a sport. Though it is the smallest of the four nations that make up the UK, Wales has traditionally produced some of the finest rugby players.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Still, in spite of their talent, the Welsh players are often discriminated against by the supporters of other British teams. Wales is a country of miners and farmers. In England, Ireland, and Scotland, rugby is traditionally reserved for the privileged elites. But in Wales, rugby cuts through the class system.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welsh players have been conditioned by years of hard physical labor, and this shows on the rugby field. The national team hasn't lost a home game in six years, and in this regard, the Welsh players are kindred spirits to the All Blacks, many of whom also come from poor farming stock or descended from working-class migrants from the British Isles.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
So as Tom watches the All Blacks run riot in Gloucester, he removes a leather notebook from his pocket and jots down a few observations. Tom is here to size up the opposing team and devise a plan that could help Wales win. By the time the game ends, the All Blacks have cruised to a 44-0 victory. Tom walks back to the train station in a daze. He now fully grasps the scale of the challenge ahead.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
If Wales are going to beat the All Blacks, they're going to have to be at their very best. A few days later, Tom visits the Welsh team's training facility in Cardiff. Two senior players, Teddy Morgan and Dickie Owen, are smoking their pipes on the sideline. Tom shakes the players' hands and then fills them in on his trip to Gloucester.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welshman listened closely as Tom describes the speed, power, and aggression of the All Blacks. Tom also mentions the unorthodox formation used by the New Zealanders. It's a highly attacking lineup with more speedy backs than slower, heavier-built forwards. Dickie Owen, a wiry scrum half with a twinkle in his eye, nods.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Then he rubs his hands together and says, well, let's play them at their own game. Together, Tom, Teddy, and Dickie begin devising a new set of tactics. Like the All Blacks, they overload their back line, filling the pitch with fast attacking players. Over the course of the next few weeks, they work on perfecting this new formation.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Edwin glances over at the opposing team. He doesn't know what to make of these New Zealanders. Physically, they're an odd-looking bunch, burly and scruffy, like a pack of farmhands. In England, rugby is a gentleman's sport, and these hooligans would look more at home in a boxing ring than on a rugby pitch. Even their uniform is strange, entirely black, as if they're on their way to a funeral.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
They put in grueling hours of training until their limbs ache and their skin and clothes are caked in mud. In the meantime, the All Blacks continue their campaign around the UK, winning every game by increasingly wide margins. So as the game in Cardiff approaches, anticipation will reach a fever pitch.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
By the time match day arrives, the press will already build the clash as the match of the century. Nobody will expect Wales to win. And as Tom Williams makes his way to the game, even he will find himself wondering if their preparations will pay off or if Wales will simply become the All Blacks' latest victim. Hey, Prime members, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad-free?
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. American History Tellers is sponsored by Legacy Box.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Hey, Gen Xers, maybe even some elder millennials, I want to assure you that your childhood is just as important as anyone's.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
It's December 16th, 1905, the day Wales plays the All Blacks. Tom Williams sits on a tram as it rattles through Cardiff, trying to calm the butterflies in his stomach. The Welsh rugby administrator has spent the last two months anxiously preparing for this occasion. But now that it's here, Tom is plagued by nerves and self-doubt. There are reasons to be optimistic.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welsh team has developed a new formation that Tom hopes will counterbalance the unorthodox attacking style of the All Blacks. They also received a considerable morale boost when legendary former player Gwyn Nicholls came out of retirement last month and agreed to captain the Wales team. Still, Tom cannot allay his fears.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The main source of concern is not the match itself, but the pre-game ceremonial routine that has become a hallmark of the All Blacks' performances. The haka, as the ritual is known, fires up the New Zealand players and strikes fear into the hearts of the opposing team.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Tom suspects that if whales are going to have a chance of winning today, they will need to find a way to respond to this intimidation. Tom looks out at the foggy streets as the tram trundles through the Cardiff city center. He spots the Welsh flag fluttering above the town hall, and the sight of the Welsh dragon makes Tom's spirits soar.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Edwin strokes his mustache, his eyebrow arched disapprovingly. The referee calls over to the two captains. It's time to start the game. The English side is awarded kickoff, and Edwin and his teammates take formation across the pitch. But rather than prepare to receive the ball, the New Zealanders form a line in the center of the field.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Suddenly, an idea dawns on him, the perfect response to the All Blacks' haka. When Tom reached Cardiff's Arms Park, the stadium where the match is to be played, he heads straight to the Welsh locker room. He bounces into the room and greets the lads with a cheerful wave and then pulls aside Captain Gwynne Nicholls.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Tom suggests to Gwynne that after the All Blacks perform the haka, they should respond by singing the Welsh national anthem. Gwyn cocks his head to one side. National anthems are sung at official state occasions, not sporting games. But Tom is insistent, telling Gwyn that it would generate the kind of atmosphere needed to beat the All Blacks.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Eventually, the captain agrees, but tells Tom he's no singer. If anyone should lead the rendition, it's Teddy Morgan, the strongest baritone in the team. Tom smiles and says, okay then, lads, let's give these boys a proper Welsh welcome. Just after 2 p.m., the players take to the field. The stadium is packed. More than 40,000 spectators have come to watch this hotly anticipated match.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
It's September 16th, 1905, on a rugby pitch in Devon in southern England. Two teams are warming up before a big game. At one end of the field, dressed in green and white striped jerseys, is Devon Rugby Club, one of the best sides in England. At the other end is the national team of New Zealand, who just arrived in the UK for their first ever European tour.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Outside the ground, people climb trees and gateposts to get a glimpse of the action. But despite the impressive turnout, the mood among the Welsh fans is subdued. Like the players, they are full of foreboding, intimidated by the All Blacks' peerless record of 26 games unbeaten. Before kickoff, the New Zealanders line up for the haka.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welsh players and fans fall into respectful silence as the All Blacks perform their now famous pre-game ceremony. But once the haka is over, the game does not immediately begin. Instead, the Welsh prepare for a performance of their own. Teddy Morgan glances across at Tom Williams on the sideline, who gives him an encouraging nod.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Tom inhales deeply and then begins a rousing rendition of the Welsh national anthem, Old Land of My Fathers. It isn't long before the crowd joins in, filling the stadium with noise. Tom watches the faces of the All Blacks as they stare into this wall of sound and detects a trace of nervousness in the visitors' demeanor, a vulnerable chink in their armor.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
This is the first time that a national anthem has ever been performed at a sporting occasion, and the effect is palpable. The Welsh players and fans are fired up, patriotic adrenaline flooding through their veins. And when the referee blows his whistle to start the game, the momentum is with wails from the start. Tom Williams watches from the sidelines, anxiously biting his nails.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
He notices how poor the All Blacks are playing, but in spite of this, Wales can't seize the advantage. After 20 minutes, the score is still 0-0. Suddenly, though, the ball comes loose from the pack. Welsh player Dickie Owen collects it and throws a cross-field pass to teammate Cliff Pritchard, who offloads the ball to Teddy Morgan. Teddy then shows his speed.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
He dodges several tackles and sprints the length of the field, bundling the ball over the line to be the first to score a try in the match. The crowd erupts in jubilation, but Tom knows it's too early to celebrate. There is still a long way to go. As the game goes on, the All Blacks will regain their composure and start playing with their usual confidence.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
They stare down the English players, widening their eyes and baring their teeth. Then to Edwin's astonishment, the New Zealanders start to perform a ceremonial battle dance, slapping their arms and torsos and flickering their tongues from their mouths like wild beasts. It's a strange and unsettling spectacle. Edwin shakes his head. Rugby is a civilized game for men of proper breeding.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Suddenly, the Welsh will find themselves on the back foot, and with just a few minutes left on the clock, the All Blacks will try to put in a last-ditch effort to preserve their unbeaten record and break Welsh hearts. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition. Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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IHIP News
The USA Has OFFICIALLY Aligned with The Axis of Evil
Ik heb me nooit meer trots op de voorzitter geweest. Ik was heel trots op J.D. Vance, die voor ons land stond. We willen helpvol zijn. Wat ik in de Oval Office zag, was ontspannend. En ik weet niet of we nog eens bezig kunnen zijn met Zelensky. Hij hoeft echter te resigneren en iemand over te sturen met wie we bezig kunnen zijn, of hij moet veranderen.
Morbid
Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)
Hey, weirdos. I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe.
Morbid
Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)
From the company's negligence to the victim's harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history. And the Boston Molasses Disaster is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American History Tellers.
Morbid
Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)
We take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped our nation and show you how our history affected them, their families, and affects you today. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both American History Tellers and Morbid early and ad-free.
Morbid
Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)
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Morbid
Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.
Morbid
Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)
I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Hey, weirdos. I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
From the company's negligence to the victim's harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an end Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both American History Tellers and Morbid early and ad-free. Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Hey, weirdos. I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
From the company's negligence to the victims' harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history. And the Boston Molasses Disaster is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American History Tellers.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
We take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped our nation and show you how our history affected them, their families, and affects you today. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both American History Tellers and Morbid early and ad-free.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And there's Morbid, the hit podcast that's a lighthearted nightmare. With Wondery+, you get access to exclusive bonus content too, allowing you to dive deeper into the cases you love. Like in Suspect, where an ordinary Halloween party turned into a terrifying murder mystery and left its mark on the community. This case is one of those rollercoaster rides where it's like, no, he did it for sure.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
No, for sure he did it. Each story is crafted to keep you enthralled, revealing the complexities and motivations behind every crime. Subscribe to Wondery Plus on the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. Unlock the door to a world of true crime like never before. With Wondery Plus, the best true crime stories are always at your fingertips.
Morbid
Episode 655: The Sinking of the USS Indianapolis
Hey, weirdos. I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe.
Morbid
Episode 655: The Sinking of the USS Indianapolis
From the company's negligence to the victim's harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history. And the Boston Molasses Disaster is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American History Tellers.
Morbid
Episode 655: The Sinking of the USS Indianapolis
We take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped our nation and show you how our history affected them, their families, and affects you today. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both American History Tellers and Morbid early and ad-free.
Morbid
Episode 655: The Sinking of the USS Indianapolis
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Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
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Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
REDACTED: Declassified Mysteries with Luke Lamana
Death of Che
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, host of Wondery's Business Movers. In our latest series, media mogul Ted Turner launches a 24-hour channel dedicated solely to breaking news. But CNN doesn't just shake up the television industry. It transforms journalism, politics, and culture in America forever. Listen to Business Movers, Making the News on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
In the 1950s, America was glued to its television screens, watching contestants battle it out for big money on quiz shows like 21 and The $64,000 Question. But behind the scenes, producers were feeding answers to the most popular contestants to keep audiences hooked. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, quiz shows dominate 1950s TV until a disgruntled contestant blows the whistle and reveals that the shows are rigged. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
You can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Teresa Kohnle
In the 1950s, America was glued to its television screens, watching contestants battle it out for big money on quiz shows like 21 and The $64,000 Question. But behind the scenes, producers were feeding answers to the most popular contestants to keep audiences hooked. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Teresa Kohnle
history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, quiz shows dominate 1950s TV until a disgruntled contestant blows the whistle and reveals that the shows are rigged. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Teresa Kohnle
You can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Judy Naylor
You can join Wondery Plus on the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. In the 1950s, America was glued to its television screens, watching contestants battle it out for big money on quiz shows like 21 and the $64,000 question. But behind the scenes, producers were feeding answers to the most popular contestants to keep audiences hooked.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Judy Naylor
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, quiz shows dominate 1950s TV until a disgruntled contestant blows the whistle and reveals that the shows are rigged.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Judy Naylor
Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2149 - Trump-Zelenskyy Meeting GOES TOTALLY NUCLEAR
is absolute, utter disaster. The question for me is, is he redeemable in the eyes of Americans? Most Americans witnessing what they saw today would not want Zelensky to be their business partner, and Zelensky felt like he needed to bait Trump in the Oval Office. J.D. was awesome. This is a missed opportunity, and the question for me, for the Ukrainian people,
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2149 - Trump-Zelenskyy Meeting GOES TOTALLY NUCLEAR
I don't know if Zelensky can ever get you to where you want to go with the United States. Either he dramatically changes or you need to get somebody new.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Saving The Border in One Month
I told him this morning, I told him, don't take the bait. Don't let the media or anybody else get you into an argument with President Trump. What he's doing today is resetting the relationship. You should be grateful. Now, whether or not we can put this back together, I don't know. But Zelensky's going to be on your network tonight.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Saving The Border in One Month
For him, I would profusely apologize to the way he treated our president and the vice president and the Oval Office and show a little bit of gratitude for what the American people have done.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Whiplash on Federal Spending
Well, technically, yeah, but he has the authority to do it. So I'm not losing a whole lot of sleep that he wants to change the personnel out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
President Trump, handled it in a fashion that if i'm china i'm iran i'm any would-be adversary i'd be worried about right now he gave a master class and how to stand up for america okay so what we saw here's lindsey graham again what do you want to see happen next Well, I don't know what's gonna happen next. I don't know if you can repair the damage.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
I don't know if you can ever do a deal with Zelinski anymore. Listen, did you see a guy that you felt good about going into business with? And I've been a fan. I've met him more times than I can count. But today showed just poor judgment, showed lack of control, Now, what I want him to do, I guess, is just to say, I screwed up big time for my country and for the U.S. relationship.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
And if I had it all do over again, I'd done it differently. I'm sorry. If he can't say that, then Ukraine, you either need to send us somebody new we can deal with or just accept the consequences.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
I told President Trump, I said, there's two ways to look at this. Your interaction with Zelenskyy was maybe the best television I've ever seen. But it's deeper than that. The world is now watching how Trump behaves and acts when he's pressed. I thought he stood up for America, that we're a good people, we wanna help you, but we're gonna be respected.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
So I think Moscow's probably more afraid of Trump than ever. Hope the Chinese are, and I hope the Iranians are. As to Zelensky and Ukraine, to the Ukrainian people, America wants to help you. The way the meeting went today, you made it almost impossible to help you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
I just think there's no way the president could have signed that deal, given the way he and J.D. and our country were treated. I don't know if you can put it back together. I don't know if you can repair the damage.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
And I've busted my ass to try to help Ukraine to make sure we help them win a war that would get this war over in a way that we don't have further aggression, and Donald Trump's the man to do it. I told him this morning, I told him, don't take the bait. Don't let the media or anybody else get you into a argument with President Trump. What he's doing today is resetting the relationship.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News Loses It After Trump Oval Office Meltdown
You should be grateful. Now, whether or not we can put this back together, I don't know. But Zelensky is going to be on your network tonight. If I were him, I would profusely apologize to the way he treated our president and the vice president and the Oval Office and show a little bit of gratitude for what the American people have done.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Alexander Vindman on Trump Ukraine Disaster
I told President Trump, I said, there's two ways to look at this. Your interaction with Zelensky was maybe the best television I've ever seen, but it's deeper than that. The world is now watching how Trump behaves and acts when he's pressed. I thought he stood up for America, that we're a good people, we want to help you. But we're going to be respected.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Alexander Vindman on Trump Ukraine Disaster
So I think Moscow is probably more afraid of Trump than ever. Hope the Chinese are, and I hope the Iranians are. As to Zelensky and Ukraine, to the Ukrainian people, America wants to help you. The way the meeting went today, you made it almost impossible to help you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
GOP Leaders CRASH AND BURN on Weekend Shows
Yeah, I think, you know, he should have done that, but... The question is, is it okay for him to put people in place that he thinks can carry out his agenda? Yeah. He won the election. What do you expect him to do, just leave everybody in place in Washington before he got elected? This makes perfect sense to me. Get new people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
GOP Leaders CRASH AND BURN on Weekend Shows
He feels like the government hasn't worked very well for the American people. These watchdog folks did a pretty lousy job. He wants some new eyes on Washington, and that makes sense to me.
The Rachel Maddow Show
'Who's that good for?': Maddow connects the dots on Donald Trump's behavior toward Russia
I want to tell you and your people, you're the ally I've been hoping for all my life. Not one American has died defending Ukraine. You've taken our weapons and you've kicked their ass. And I'm very proud to have you as our ally.