Lindsey Graham
Appearances
48 Hours
A Tragic Journey
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
48 Hours
A Tragic Journey
And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
48 Hours
A Tragic Journey
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
48 Hours
The "Batman" Intruder
Get back in your car. Lizzie, it's okay. I'm here now. Josh, get in your car!
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
As we explore the triumphs and tragedies that shaped America, we're always striving to paint a vivid, nuanced picture of the past. And with Wondery+, you can experience that vision in its purest form. Enjoy ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and exclusive bonus content that illuminates the human stories behind the history.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Hey, Prime members, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad-free? That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition. Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Because when you feed your pet Hills, you help feed a shelter pet, which makes them healthy, happy, and more adoptable, changing their life forever so they can change yours. Over 14 million shelter pets fed and adopted. Science did that. Visit hillspet.com slash podcast to learn more. So I'm interested in life on the railroad. We know the work was hard and grueling and sometimes dangerous.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You think they're going to get in the picture too? How should I know? They'll do whatever they want, I suppose. Well, they ought to be in the picture. They do the most dangerous work and get paid less than us too. I guess go invite them, but you'll lose out on a good spot. Your friend starts climbing up the side of one of the engines, eager to get a more prominent place in the photograph.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
But what was life like in the camps along the line as it stretched from Sacramento to Utah?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
So it was grueling, grueling work. So it sounds like the Chinese lived a very Chinese life, or as much as they could in a very foreign land. What was their work like? How did it compare to the other white workers?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You look back and see the photographer's assistant, ushering the Chinese workers further away from the group. You want to say something, but you're also afraid you'll lose your place. So you scramble up next to your friend, and just as you manage to find your footing, you hear a loud pop and see the flash of a photographer's bolt.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You mentioned that the Chinese laborers were good at teamwork and worked well within their gangs. But one thing that was interesting to me that we learned in our series was that Chinese workers not only were good at teamwork— but were perhaps also good teamsters. They went on strike in 1867 to protest the conditions in the Sierras. What did these striking workers want, and did they get it?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
We've mentioned a few times Summit Camp and Summit Tunnel and how difficult the work there was. You've been there. And while we tried to convey the conditions in our series, there's nothing quite like visiting the site yourself. I'd love for you to give us an idea of what this tunnel is, the scale and scope of it. And why is there a wall between two tunnels called China Wall?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You smile knowing you managed to make your way into the history books, but you also feel a pang of guilt as you think of everyone who's being left out. Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. You can apply on your iPhone in minutes and start using it right away.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Now, one of the obvious and unfortunate consequences of the hard work these laborers were performing are accidents and deaths. It's estimated that over a thousand Chinese laborers died building the railroad. But when their bodies could be recovered, what happened to them? They were a long way from home. They were a long way from home.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You'll earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including products at Apple like a new iPhone 16 or Apple Watch Ultra. Start holiday shopping for your friends and family today with Apple Card. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
American History Tellers is sponsored by Anytime Fitness. Like many things in life, fitness is not a destination. It's a journey. You don't get fit and quit. Instead, you stay trim to win or maintain to gain or keep lean to being. Sheen? Look, it doesn't have to rhyme to be a good message. You're not just working out, you're investing in yourself.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and see American history through a whole new lens. Imagine it's a sunny, warm afternoon on May 10, 1869, and you're standing on the summit of a large hill near Promontory, Utah. You shield your eyes from the midday sun as you and dozens of your fellow railroad workers toast in celebration.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
And for that, Anytime Fitness has everything you need. The right equipment, easy anytime access to more than 5,000 global locations, and expert coaching to help optimize your personalized training, nutrition, and recovery plans, both in person and in the Anytime Fitness app. So at Anytime Fitness, you get more than machines.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You get a personalized plan, in-gym and in-app coaching support, and a welcoming community. Anytime Fitness is holistic fitness. Get started at AnytimeFitness.com. American History Tellers is sponsored by Legacy Box. Hey, Gen Xers, maybe even some elder millennials, I want to assure you that your childhood is just as important as anyone's.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Sure, it's not digitally captured or uploaded to the cloud, instantly shareable and safely backed up like today's kids. But your memories, your old VHS tapes and home videos, those photos from your fifth birthday party at McDonald's, they're just as meaningful, even if they're sitting in your mom's closet.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
I know my precious memories are meaningful, which is why years ago I digitized them with Legacy Box. and you can too right now during their best sale of the year. It's easy. Send in your Legacy Box filled with your old tapes, films, photos, and audio recordings, then get them back in the cloud or on a thumb drive along with your originals.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
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American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
So far, we've focused our conversation on the Chinese laborers as they worked on the railroad. But in 1869, the work ended. The railroad was completed. What happened to the thousands of Chinese men who had worked so hard to get it done?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
American History Tellers is sponsored by Audible, whose best of 2024 picks are here. Discover the year's top audiobooks and originals in all your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full-cast production of George Orwell's 1984,
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
We started our conversation with a look at the 1869 photograph of the hammering of the golden spike at Promontory Point. There was another photograph recreating the scene in 2014 from a photographer named Corky Lee. What happened in this rendition?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
And he wasn't the only one interested in correcting the record in 2014. The U.S. Department of Labor moved to set the record straight as well. What did the federal government do to recognize these Chinese laborers?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
hard-felt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one, the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hanna and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive title James, or a personal pick of mine, Malcolm Gladwell's latest audiobook, Revenge of the Tipping Point. Find a new favorite and get listening with Audible because there's more to imagine when you listen.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Your co-editor of Voices from the Railroad is historian Connie Young-Yu, and she is the descendant of a Chinese railroad worker herself. We have a clip talking about her great-grandfather, Li Wong-Sang, who worked for the Central Pacific Railroad.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
She talks about being asked to speak at the 150th anniversary at Promontory Point in 2019, when the Chinese contribution was finally recognized, as you know. Here it is.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Go to audible.com slash tellers and discover all the year's best waiting for you. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. On May 10, 1869, the Transcontinental Railroad was finally completed.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
I'd love to hear your reflections on what Kai said and just what it meant to you.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You mentioned earlier the state of disrepair that the more modern concrete snowsheds have fallen into, and I know you are involved in trying to preserve Summit Camp as a whole, adjacent to the tunnels. What would you like to see happen there?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Now, I don't know how many Chinese Americans view the Transcontinental Railway as this, but it could be seen as their Plymouth Rock. What do you want people to know about the legacy of Chinese railroad workers in America?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Suli, thank you so much for joining us on American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
That was my conversation with Su Li, historian and former executive director of the Chinese Historical Society of America. She's also co-editor with Connie Young Yu of Voices from the Railroad, stories by descendants of Chinese railroad workers. From Wondery, this is the fifth and final episode of our series Transcontinental Railroad for American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
In our next season, we're bringing you an encore presentation of our series on the Boston Molasses Disaster. In 1919, one of America's strangest tragedies struck Boston's busy North End when a giant storage tank holding more than 2 million gallons of molasses collapsed, sending its contents crashing into the city streets.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
The ordeal left death and destruction in its wake and sparked a contentious court case to determine who was to blame for the tragedy. If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode was produced by Polly Stryker and Alita Rozansky. Our senior interview producer is Peter Arcuni. Managing producer, Desi Blaylock.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Senior managing producer, Callum Plews. Senior producer, Annie Herman. And executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Leading figures of both the Union Pacific and Central Pacific Railroad companies gathered at Promontory Summit, Utah, to watch as President of the Central Pacific, Leland Stanford, drove a symbolic golden spike into the final rail of track.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Also present that day were scores of workers whose labor had made the railroad a reality, including a group of Chinese laborers from the Central Pacific, who had moved the final rail into position before the completion ceremony. Initially hired during a labor shortage, thousands of Chinese men worked under harsh conditions while facing daily discrimination.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Chinese workers were paid lower wages and assigned the most dangerous tasks, including blasting tunnels through the Sierra Nevada mountains. But they persevered despite these challenges, and their hard work and resilience proved instrumental in completing the railroad. But over the years, their contribution has often been undervalued or overlooked entirely.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Here with me to discuss recent efforts to recognize Chinese railroad workers' contributions to the transcontinental railroad is Su Li, historian and former executive director of the Chinese Historical Society of America. She's the co-editor with Connie Young Yu of Voices from the Railroad, stories by descendants of Chinese railroad workers. Our conversation is next.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Sue Lee, welcome to American History Tellers. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. Now, there is this very famous photograph taken at Prominentory Summit, Utah, on May 10th, 1869, the one where the Central Pacific and the Union Pacific lines meet.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
There appear to be plenty of white men there, but it does not look like any of the Chinese workers who labored so hard on the railroad made it into this photo. Is your 2019 book, Voices from the Railroad, perhaps an attempt to correct the record?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
You've just witnessed the ceremonial golden spike being driven into the final rail of the Transcontinental Railroad, and your head is swirling with excitement. You take a swig from a bottle of whiskey and then hand it to your friend standing beside you. He gives you a nod of thanks. You know, while I was breaking my back trying to dig this damn thing, I didn't think this day would ever come.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
In 1969, 50 years before your book came out, there was a centennial ceremony at Promontory Point, Utah, 100 years after the Golden Spike ceremony. And the head of the Chinese Historical Society of America went and was scheduled to deliver a speech. How did that go?
American History Tellers
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Of course, your efforts in 2019 are now 150 years old, 50 years further than that first centennial. How did you go about piecing together the history of these workers?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
What do you think was behind the difficulty in finding the details about Chinese laborers?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Sure glad I was wrong. Me too. For the last two years, it feels like I've done nothing but swing a sledgehammer. But here we are at last. Your friend hands the bottle of whiskey back to you, and you gesture in the direction of a photographer who's setting up his equipment. Well, looks like they're going to try and memorialize the moment with a picture. Maybe we'll get in the paper.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
So it seems like there were quite a few obstacles in the way of finding the true Chinese story of the railroad for you. But I'm interested in what you knew of it before you started this adventure. Your grandfather came to San Francisco himself from China in 1915 and worked in a cigar factory.
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
What were you taught at home about the contributions of the Chinese to building the transcontinental railroad? Or what were you taught at school?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
I'm glad you bring up the ancestral villages in China because we say things like Chinese laborers built the railroad, but China is a very large, diverse country. What part of China did many of these workers come from? What would have been like for them to arrive in California and work?
American History Tellers
Transcontinental Railroad | The Iron Road | 5
Well, that would be something. I bet my wife and boy would be so proud. Well, come on, let's make sure we're not left out. You and your friend make your way over to two large locomotive engines that have been positioned facing each other on the track to mark the occasion and squeeze into the crowd surrounding them. Just then, though, you notice a group of Chinese workers standing to the side.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Hey, history buffs, if you can't get enough of the captivating stories we uncover on American History Tellers, you'll love the exclusive experience of Wondery Plus. Dive even deeper into the past with ad-free episodes, early access to new seasons, and bonus content that brings history to life like never before.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
But it wasn't actually just the British government and military command that was operating underground, because the American media was too. How did news from the UK reach the United States?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
As they led their countries in the fight against fascism, one of the ways Churchill and Roosevelt came to know each other was during the visits Churchill made to the White House. And we have a chapter on the first visit in the book that was inspired by this podcast, The Hidden History of the White House, Power Struggles, Scandals, and Defining Moments.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Hey, Prime members, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad-free? That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. American History Tellers is sponsored by Legacy Box. Hey, Gen Xers, maybe even some elder millennials, I want to assure you that your childhood is just as important as anyone's.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Sure, it's not digitally captured or uploaded to the cloud, instantly shareable and safely backed up like today's kids, but your memories, your old VHS tapes and home videos, those photos from your fifth birthday party at McDonald's, they're just as meaningful, even if they're sitting in your mom's closet.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
I know my precious memories are meaningful, which is why years ago I digitized them with Legacy Box. and you can too right now during their best sale of the year. It's easy. Send in your Legacy Box filled with your old tapes, films, photos, and audio recordings, then get them back in the cloud or on a thumb drive along with your originals.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
But hurry, because Legacy's best sale of the year won't last long. Visit LegacyBox.com slash Teller for an unreal 65% off during the Legacy Box holiday sales event. With limited quantities ready to ship, this deal will go fast. Shop Legacy Box's lowest prices of the year now at LegacyBox.com. Buy your Legacy Box today. Send it in when you're ready. LegacyBox.com.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And here with me today to further explore the special relationship between Churchill and Roosevelt is Dan Snow. He spent his career presenting history programs for the BBC and PBS, including an in-depth series on D-Day. We'll discuss how the British dealt with Hitler before the U.S.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So with the Japanese attack and Germany declaring war on the U.S. shortly after, America was finally a full participant in the war. But Churchill made this visit—ten rough days at sea, apparently—because he worried that the U.S. might focus its efforts on Japan rather than Germany. So he essentially invited himself to the White House to shore up this special relationship between the U.S.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
and Britain— And between himself and FDR. But there is this fascinating chapter in the American History Teller's book, The Hidden History of the White House, that does detail Churchill's visit to the White House and these two men's time together, which was rather long, many days and stretching into weeks, full of big dinners and long cocktail hours.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Not exactly wartime deprivation, but he was also very political. Their strategy talks went very late into the night, and Churchill, who's always described as a bit of a bulldog of a man, seems to go to great lengths to show deference to Roosevelt.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
One story I liked was that Churchill apparently took to chauffeuring FDR around in his wheelchair, I guess simultaneously staying very close and intimate while also kind of subordinating himself. Churchill was a man leading a country in need, and he was smart enough to know how to develop a bond.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Well, I think Britain was saved. This was the moment that Churchill was hoping for, and though it was a dark hope, but it was the necessary push. for the American nation to get over its isolationism and recognize that the world was on fire and America was needed.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Yeah, well, the trip starts pretty much with a press conference. This is Churchill's introduction to America. And I think he knows that he has an act to play. There's a good scene in the book of this first press conference. The room is filled with both cigar and cigarette smoke, as both leaders were inveterate smokers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
But the reporters are clicking their cameras and anxious to get information from FDR and Churchill. And FDR knows that this is his opportunity to sell the British predicament to the American public and wants to show off Churchill to Americans. In fact, he does show him off. He tells Churchill to show himself to the cameras, to the reporters.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
entry into World War II, Churchill's visit with Roosevelt at the White House, and then the culmination of their efforts, D-Day itself. My conversation with Dan Snow is coming up next. Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. You can apply on your iPhone in minutes and start using it right away.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And Churchill, in typical bluster, gets up on a chair and waves his cigar around as cameras click. Then one of the reporters asks Churchill in another humorous moment, Mr. Minister, can you tell us when you think we may lick these boys? And a slightly befuddled Churchill has to be told what the American colloquial lick means. And once he finally grasps it means to defeat,
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
He retorts in a very Churchill way, if we manage it well, then it will only take half as long as if we manage it badly. Right from the start, Churchill is on a charm offensive. He needs to charm Roosevelt. He needs to charm Congress. He needs to charm the press and ultimately the American people.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
A man of appetites, for sure. But Eleanor, I'm glad you bring her up. She was not especially pleased with her husband because it was only upon Churchill's arrival that she discovered he was visiting. Franklin had told Eleanor that there was a guest coming and that they should prepare for copious amounts of food, cognac and champagne.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
But for national security, he did not tell his own wife that it was the prime minister who was visiting.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Churchill's tastes were peculiar and copious. So he demanded, or I guess requested, that he have a glass of sherry before his breakfast. And for breakfast, he wanted something hot and something cold. And, well, the Americans obliged. They gave him bacon and eggs, certainly more eggs than Churchill was probably accustomed to with rationing back home.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Yeah, apparently the president wanted to have a meeting right then, and he was told that Churchill was in the bath, and that didn't bother Franklin. And it didn't bother Churchill either. And I think that says a great deal about the two men, that maybe perhaps FDR was intent on catching Churchill at a fragile moment, but Churchill was intent on turning it to his advantage.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
He leapt out of the bath, showed his full naked body and said, see, Mr. President, I have nothing to hide.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Yeah, I think they had to. The bathroom story is probably indicative of the relationship as a whole. It is one of shared needs and ideals, but one of testing each other's strengths and weaknesses. These are two very strong men leading in dire times, and they need to be absolutely certain that each one of them is trustworthy.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
It's an allegory for their relationship, but I think this is a moment in which these men personify their nations.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
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American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Well, I think as we hinted at, it cemented the special bond between these two leaders. They agreed on a number of crucial strategies. One thing that Churchill did acquiesce to was Roosevelt's demand for a single command center in Washington and having these supreme allied commanders in Europe and Asia, one source of direction for the military operations. And this might have been in response to
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
America's position in World War I, in which her troops fought under British and French command and chafed a bit at it. But I think crucially, Churchill got from FDR what he wanted, a promise that the United States would fight Germany first. Because I think Roosevelt and his military advisors had already determined that Germany was the more dangerous foe with more resources and industrial capacity.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts and embark on an unparalleled journey through America's most pivotal moments. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. Every once in a while, American History Tellers gets the chance to talk with someone who loves history as much as we do.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
They spent a lot of time together. Of course, they communicated hundreds, if not thousands of times by letter, telegram, and phone call. These were, by necessity, probably the two closest people on the planet separated by thousands of miles. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day. Because when you feed your pet Hills, you help feed a shelter pet, which makes them healthy, happy, and more adoptable, changing their life forever so they can change yours. Over 14 million shelter pets fed and adopted. Science did that. Visit hillspet.com slash podcast to learn more.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
American History Tellers is sponsored by Anytime Fitness. Like many things in life, fitness is not a destination. It's a journey. You don't get fit and quit. Instead, you stay trim to win or maintain to gain or keep lean to being. Sheen? Look, it doesn't have to rhyme to be a good message. You're not just working out, you're investing in yourself.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And for that, Anytime Fitness has everything you need. The right equipment, easy anytime access to more than 5,000 global locations, and expert coaching to help optimize your personalized training, nutrition, and recovery plans, both in person and in the Anytime Fitness app. So at Anytime Fitness, you get more than machines.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
You get a personalized plan, in-gym and in-app coaching support and a welcoming community. Anytime Fitness is holistic fitness. Get started at AnytimeFitness.com. So if Churchill's visit to the White House was perhaps the beginning of the special relationship, it was probably all leading to one shared and daring plan. And that was D-Day. History Hit has covered D-Day in vivid detail.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And I can imagine that this was a plan that went through several iterations. What were Churchill's early thoughts about striking back against Germany?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
American History Tellers is sponsored by Audible, whose best of 2024 picks are here. Discover the year's top audiobooks and originals in all your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full-cast production of George Orwell's 1984,
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
One of your history hit episodes goes through the very first 90 minutes of D-Day as if it was in real time. And in preparing for it, you talk to people who were there as the Armada left the British shores as witnesses and combatants. What was the departure scene like as troops headed out to Normandy?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
hard-felt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one, the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hanna and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive title James, or a personal pick of mine, Malcolm Gladwell's latest audiobook, Revenge of the Tipping Point. Find a new favorite and get listening with Audible because there's more to imagine when you listen.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
I'm glad you bring up the German state of readiness, because the success of D-Day pretty much hinged on the element of surprise. Why were the Germans not expecting the Allies to land in Normandy?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So as this operation goes on, minutes turn to hours. I assume it is a tense time with Churchill and Roosevelt in London and Washington, closely monitoring events, but far away from the action. What did Churchill say to the House of Commons?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Go to audible.com slash tellers and discover all the year's best waiting for you. Dan Snow, welcome to American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Well, Roosevelt was. He was a leader of a nation who was actively involved in D-Day just as much as the British, and by this point had committed much of the nation's treasure and their young men to the effort. So he, too, had to face the American public and apprise them of what's going on. He did so via radio. He asked them to join him in prayer, saying about the men fighting on the continent,
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
that they will need thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard, for the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again. And we know that by thy grace and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. So I think he took the same tack, that success is assured.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
The honor is all mine because you are a well-known champion of popular history, and your show, History Hit, covers a wide range of topics, but there's a special focus on the rich history of the UK, as one might imagine. One figure who looms large in the 20th century is Winston Churchill.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
We have been talking about two leaders from 80 years ago, though. While both very smart and cunning men, they face great challenges. It makes me think to ask what lessons we can draw from their relationship that we might apply today in a very different world.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
The lessons of coalition, the strength of coalition is an obvious one. But one of the larger lessons from Churchill and Roosevelt in particular is the importance of relationships, building relationships, understanding what trust means, understanding that loyalty is a give and take, that there are compromises always to be made, that ego is always to be put aside.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
I think from Churchill and Roosevelt and many, many other great leaders, this is the lesson you will always learn.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Dan, this has been an enormous amount of fun, a bit different than we normally do, but I enjoyed it so much. I am a big fan of your history hit podcasts and videos, especially the most recent one I watched on D-Day. Thank you for talking to me today on American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
That was my conversation with historian and broadcaster Dan Snow. Check out his podcast, Dan Snow's History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. From Wondery, this has been a special episode of American History Tellers.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
For more on Churchill's visit to the White House, check out the book inspired by this podcast, The Hidden History of the White House, Power Struggles, Scandals and Defining Moments. You can find more information about the book in our show notes.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So I'd love for you to take us back to the early days of World War II, to May 1940, when Winston Churchill had just become prime minister. What position was Churchill in, and the country, I suppose, at the time?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
On the next episode, we'll be wrapping up our series on the Transcontinental Railroad with an interview with Su Li, historian and former executive director of the Chinese Historical Society of America. She joins me to talk about the experience of Chinese railroad workers, the dangers they faced, and the legacy they left.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode was produced by Polly Stryker and Alita Rozanski. Our senior interview producer is Peter Arcuni. Managing producer, Desi Blalock. Senior managing producer, Callum Clues. Senior producer, Andy Herman.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And executive producers are Jenny Lauer-Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Yeah, this projection of confidence does seem to be at odds with reality on the ground. Britain's only allies are occupied nations, and America is reluctant to enter the war. What do you know about this reluctance, this isolationism?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
So this period of early and mid-1940s is certainly a fraught one. Churchill comes into office in May, but by July and through October of 1940, the Battle of Britain was raging. Now, this was an attempt by Hitler to control the skies over the UK before an eventual ground invasion. Today, it's kind of remembered, I suppose, as a bit of a David versus Goliath story.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
But I think it's understood that it's more complicated than that. How so?
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
And today, it's our good fortune to speak with British historian and TV presenter Dan Snow, host of Dan Snow's History Hit podcast. So much of history is decided by large events, battles, explorations, colonization. But this show tries to also demonstrate the power of relationships in steering history.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
Now, this was also a time in the UK known as the Blitz, because along with military targets, increasingly civilian targets were bombed by the Germans. This is a relentless bombardment that went on for nine months, a terrible disruption of ordinary life. But I gather it wasn't all just huddling in shelters or bravely trying to ignore the risks and carry on. This is also a nuanced story.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
The United States and Great Britain have had their share of conflict, first in the American Revolutionary War and again in the War of 1812. But in the centuries since, these two countries enjoy a strong bond. And nowhere has that been more evident than in the friendship and working relationship between President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Prime Minister Winston Churchill.
American History Tellers
FDR & Churchill: A Friendship For the Ages with History Hit's Dan Snow | 1
During this time of persistent bombardment, Churchill and his staff are forced to keep operations running in reinforced war rooms beneath the streets of London. And I know in one of your episodes, you visit these war rooms. What were they like?
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Get started at AnytimeFitness.com. It's December 16th, 1905, at Cardiff Arms Park. The match of the century between Wales and the All Blacks is approaching the full-time whistle. Wales are leading the game by three points to nil, but the All Blacks have the ball, with winger Bob Deans racing for Wales' try line.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
If he scores, the game will be tied, and then the All Blacks will have the opportunity to take a penalty kick to win the match. So as Bob bounds across the turf, the ball clutched under one arm. Behind him, two Welsh players, Teddy Morgan and Rhys Gabe, give chase. But they can't catch Bob Deans, who is now mere feet from the try line.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Realizing that it's now or never, Rhys makes a desperate lunge. His flailing arms wrap around Deans' knees and drags the New Zealander to the ground. The referee blows his whistle, and the crowd cheers. But Bob Deans pops up off the turf and begins a spirited conversation with the referee. Bob insists that the ball went over the line and that a try should be awarded to New Zealand, tying the game.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The referee wavers and looks to his peers. But the official monitoring the touchline disagrees, declaring that Bob Deans did not make it to the try line. Wales has awarded a scrummage deep within their own half, but with a chance to run down the clock. And a few minutes later, the referee blows the final whistle. Wales has beaten the All Blacks and emerged on top in the match of the century.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
It is the first and only occasion that New Zealand will be beaten on their UK tour. And the game will go down as one of the greatest days in the history of Welsh rugby. Three years later, All Blacks player Bob Deans will die from complications from an appendix operation, and he will use his last breath to still insist the referee in Cardiff was mistaken and he should have been awarded the try.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
In 2005, the centennial of the famous match will be celebrated with another game between Wales and the All Blacks in Cardiff. This time, the All Blacks will have their revenge, winning the game by 41 points to three.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
But after this performance, Edwin is convinced that these New Zealand players aren't men at all, but actual animals. Still, as the whistle blows for kickoff, for the first time all morning, Edwin feels nervous. Edwin's nerves are well-founded. Devon will go on to suffer a humiliating defeat to New Zealand, losing the game 55 points to four.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Still, their victory will not diminish the achievement of Tom Williams, Gwynn Nicholls, Teddy Morgan, and the rest of the Welsh team when they defeated the dominant All Blacks on December 16th, 1905. Next, on History Daily, December 17, 1398, the mighty nomadic warlord Timur captures and sacks the Indian city of Delhi, causing the deaths of 100,000 people.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
From Noiser and Airship, this is History Daily. Hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham. Audio editing by Molly Bond. Sound design by Derek Behrens. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by Joe Viner. Produced by Alexander Curry Buckner. Executive producers are Stephen Walters for Airship and Pascal Hughes for Noiser.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
If you like American History Tellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The defeat will cause a sensation, with newspapers around the country proclaiming it a dark day for English rugby. But Devon will not be the last to fall victim to New Zealand, who will go on to win their next 26 matches. Soon, New Zealand's distinctive uniform will earn them a nickname, the All Blacks.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
And their pre-game ceremonial dance, the haka, will strike fear into the hearts of every opposing team they encounter. But the indomitable All Blacks will soon encounter their biggest challenge to date when they play the UK's smallest nation, Wales, in a hotly anticipated clash that will come to be known as the Match of the Century on December 16th, 1905.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. American History Tellers is sponsored by Audible, whose best of 2024 picks are here. Discover the year's top audiobooks and originals in all your favorite genres.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full-cast production of George Orwell's 1984, Hard-felt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hanna and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive title James. Or a personal pick of mine, Malcolm Gladwell's latest audiobook, Revenge of the Tipping Point. Find a new favorite and get listening with Audible because there's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com slash tellers and discover all the year's best waiting for you.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
From Noiser and Airship, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is History Daily. History is made every day. On this podcast, every day, we tell the true stories of the people and events that shaped our world. Today is December 16, 1905, Rugby Union's Match of the Century. It's October 19th, 1905, in Gloucester, in the English Midlands, one month after New Zealand's victory in Devon.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Spectators crowd the stadium where the local Gloucester rugby club is about to take on the visiting New Zealanders. Low-lying fog shrouds the pitch as both sets of players assume formation. Gloucester in their traditional red and white stripes, New Zealand in their distinctive black.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Edwin Cox, Devon's captain, leads his teammates in a passing drill. The hundreds of spectators who have come to watch today's clash all expect Devon to win, and the crowd's confidence has rubbed off on the players. Edwin notices that morale is high among his teammates as they throw the ball around, laughing and joking, as if getting ready for a friendly Sunday game in the park.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Children in the crowd stand on tiptoes to catch a glimpse of the famous visiting team, now commonly known as the All Blacks. Before the game starts, the All Blacks perform their traditional ceremonial routine, known as the haka. The captain emits a guttural war cry in the Maori language, the indigenous tongue of New Zealand.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The players respond by making a series of rhythmic hand gestures and frightening facial expressions designed to intimidate and unnerve their opponents. The Gloucester players watch in bemused silence, unsure what to make of the strange display. But once the haka is over, the referee blows his whistle and the game begins. The All Blacks receive the ball first and immediately are on the attack.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
They ship the ball out wide to their winger, Duncan McGregor, who dashes for the try line and scores with fewer than 10 seconds on the clock. The crowd cheers, even the Gloucester fans, who have to applaud such remarkable athletic prowess. Among the impressed onlookers is Tom Williams. Tom used to be a player himself. Now he's an administrator for the Welsh Rugby Union.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
In two months, Wales are due to play the All Blacks in Cardiff in the final match of the New Zealand team's UK tour. This will be the All Blacks' toughest challenge yet. In Wales, rugby is more a religion than a sport. Though it is the smallest of the four nations that make up the UK, Wales has traditionally produced some of the finest rugby players.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Still, in spite of their talent, the Welsh players are often discriminated against by the supporters of other British teams. Wales is a country of miners and farmers. In England, Ireland, and Scotland, rugby is traditionally reserved for the privileged elites. But in Wales, rugby cuts through the class system.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welsh players have been conditioned by years of hard physical labor, and this shows on the rugby field. The national team hasn't lost a home game in six years, and in this regard, the Welsh players are kindred spirits to the All Blacks, many of whom also come from poor farming stock or descended from working-class migrants from the British Isles.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
So as Tom watches the All Blacks run riot in Gloucester, he removes a leather notebook from his pocket and jots down a few observations. Tom is here to size up the opposing team and devise a plan that could help Wales win. By the time the game ends, the All Blacks have cruised to a 44-0 victory. Tom walks back to the train station in a daze. He now fully grasps the scale of the challenge ahead.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
If Wales are going to beat the All Blacks, they're going to have to be at their very best. A few days later, Tom visits the Welsh team's training facility in Cardiff. Two senior players, Teddy Morgan and Dickie Owen, are smoking their pipes on the sideline. Tom shakes the players' hands and then fills them in on his trip to Gloucester.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welshman listened closely as Tom describes the speed, power, and aggression of the All Blacks. Tom also mentions the unorthodox formation used by the New Zealanders. It's a highly attacking lineup with more speedy backs than slower, heavier-built forwards. Dickie Owen, a wiry scrum half with a twinkle in his eye, nods.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Then he rubs his hands together and says, well, let's play them at their own game. Together, Tom, Teddy, and Dickie begin devising a new set of tactics. Like the All Blacks, they overload their back line, filling the pitch with fast attacking players. Over the course of the next few weeks, they work on perfecting this new formation.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Edwin glances over at the opposing team. He doesn't know what to make of these New Zealanders. Physically, they're an odd-looking bunch, burly and scruffy, like a pack of farmhands. In England, rugby is a gentleman's sport, and these hooligans would look more at home in a boxing ring than on a rugby pitch. Even their uniform is strange, entirely black, as if they're on their way to a funeral.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
They put in grueling hours of training until their limbs ache and their skin and clothes are caked in mud. In the meantime, the All Blacks continue their campaign around the UK, winning every game by increasingly wide margins. So as the game in Cardiff approaches, anticipation will reach a fever pitch.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
By the time match day arrives, the press will already build the clash as the match of the century. Nobody will expect Wales to win. And as Tom Williams makes his way to the game, even he will find himself wondering if their preparations will pay off or if Wales will simply become the All Blacks' latest victim. Hey, Prime members, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad-free?
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. American History Tellers is sponsored by Legacy Box.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Hey, Gen Xers, maybe even some elder millennials, I want to assure you that your childhood is just as important as anyone's.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Sure, it's not digitally captured or uploaded to the cloud, instantly shareable and safely backed up like today's kids, but your memories, your old VHS tapes and home videos, those photos from your fifth birthday party at McDonald's, they're just as meaningful, even if they're sitting in your mom's closet.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
It's December 16th, 1905, the day Wales plays the All Blacks. Tom Williams sits on a tram as it rattles through Cardiff, trying to calm the butterflies in his stomach. The Welsh rugby administrator has spent the last two months anxiously preparing for this occasion. But now that it's here, Tom is plagued by nerves and self-doubt. There are reasons to be optimistic.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welsh team has developed a new formation that Tom hopes will counterbalance the unorthodox attacking style of the All Blacks. They also received a considerable morale boost when legendary former player Gwyn Nicholls came out of retirement last month and agreed to captain the Wales team. Still, Tom cannot allay his fears.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The main source of concern is not the match itself, but the pre-game ceremonial routine that has become a hallmark of the All Blacks' performances. The haka, as the ritual is known, fires up the New Zealand players and strikes fear into the hearts of the opposing team.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Tom suspects that if whales are going to have a chance of winning today, they will need to find a way to respond to this intimidation. Tom looks out at the foggy streets as the tram trundles through the Cardiff city center. He spots the Welsh flag fluttering above the town hall, and the sight of the Welsh dragon makes Tom's spirits soar.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Edwin strokes his mustache, his eyebrow arched disapprovingly. The referee calls over to the two captains. It's time to start the game. The English side is awarded kickoff, and Edwin and his teammates take formation across the pitch. But rather than prepare to receive the ball, the New Zealanders form a line in the center of the field.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Suddenly, an idea dawns on him, the perfect response to the All Blacks' haka. When Tom reached Cardiff's Arms Park, the stadium where the match is to be played, he heads straight to the Welsh locker room. He bounces into the room and greets the lads with a cheerful wave and then pulls aside Captain Gwynne Nicholls.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Tom suggests to Gwynne that after the All Blacks perform the haka, they should respond by singing the Welsh national anthem. Gwyn cocks his head to one side. National anthems are sung at official state occasions, not sporting games. But Tom is insistent, telling Gwyn that it would generate the kind of atmosphere needed to beat the All Blacks.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Eventually, the captain agrees, but tells Tom he's no singer. If anyone should lead the rendition, it's Teddy Morgan, the strongest baritone in the team. Tom smiles and says, okay then, lads, let's give these boys a proper Welsh welcome. Just after 2 p.m., the players take to the field. The stadium is packed. More than 40,000 spectators have come to watch this hotly anticipated match.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
It's September 16th, 1905, on a rugby pitch in Devon in southern England. Two teams are warming up before a big game. At one end of the field, dressed in green and white striped jerseys, is Devon Rugby Club, one of the best sides in England. At the other end is the national team of New Zealand, who just arrived in the UK for their first ever European tour.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Outside the ground, people climb trees and gateposts to get a glimpse of the action. But despite the impressive turnout, the mood among the Welsh fans is subdued. Like the players, they are full of foreboding, intimidated by the All Blacks' peerless record of 26 games unbeaten. Before kickoff, the New Zealanders line up for the haka.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
The Welsh players and fans fall into respectful silence as the All Blacks perform their now famous pre-game ceremony. But once the haka is over, the game does not immediately begin. Instead, the Welsh prepare for a performance of their own. Teddy Morgan glances across at Tom Williams on the sideline, who gives him an encouraging nod.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Tom inhales deeply and then begins a rousing rendition of the Welsh national anthem, Old Land of My Fathers. It isn't long before the crowd joins in, filling the stadium with noise. Tom watches the faces of the All Blacks as they stare into this wall of sound and detects a trace of nervousness in the visitors' demeanor, a vulnerable chink in their armor.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
This is the first time that a national anthem has ever been performed at a sporting occasion, and the effect is palpable. The Welsh players and fans are fired up, patriotic adrenaline flooding through their veins. And when the referee blows his whistle to start the game, the momentum is with wails from the start. Tom Williams watches from the sidelines, anxiously biting his nails.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
He notices how poor the All Blacks are playing, but in spite of this, Wales can't seize the advantage. After 20 minutes, the score is still 0-0. Suddenly, though, the ball comes loose from the pack. Welsh player Dickie Owen collects it and throws a cross-field pass to teammate Cliff Pritchard, who offloads the ball to Teddy Morgan. Teddy then shows his speed.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
He dodges several tackles and sprints the length of the field, bundling the ball over the line to be the first to score a try in the match. The crowd erupts in jubilation, but Tom knows it's too early to celebrate. There is still a long way to go. As the game goes on, the All Blacks will regain their composure and start playing with their usual confidence.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
They stare down the English players, widening their eyes and baring their teeth. Then to Edwin's astonishment, the New Zealanders start to perform a ceremonial battle dance, slapping their arms and torsos and flickering their tongues from their mouths like wild beasts. It's a strange and unsettling spectacle. Edwin shakes his head. Rugby is a civilized game for men of proper breeding.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Suddenly, the Welsh will find themselves on the back foot, and with just a few minutes left on the clock, the All Blacks will try to put in a last-ditch effort to preserve their unbeaten record and break Welsh hearts. American History Tellers is sponsored by Hills Pet Nutrition. Every shelter pet deserves a second chance, and you're making it possible for thousands of them every day.
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History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
Because when you feed your pet Hills, you help feed a shelter pet, which makes them healthy, happy, and more adoptable, changing their life forever so they can change yours. Over 14 million shelter pets fed and adopted. Science did that. Visit hillspet.com slash podcast to learn more. American History Tellers is sponsored by Anytime Fitness.
American History Tellers
History Daily: Rugby Union’s “Match of the Century”
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Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
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