The Planet Reigate Podcast
49: Our report on the big Harlequin meeting and the Morris Men’s group which may not dance to see 100 years… and more
Thu, 15 Aug 2024
Episode 49 “Our report on the big Harlequin meeting and the Morris Men’s group which may not dance to see 100 years… and more”For Saturday 17th August 2024TIMELINE00:00 - What’s in this episode04:30 - The Good Time Guide: Local places to go and things to do this weekend. 07:35 - GUEST: The East Surrey Morris Men, and one of the last ever dances just ahead of their 100th anniversary. 19:00 - The Planet Reigate area news. Including our special report on the big council meeting about the Harlequin Theatre in Redhill and overall arts provision in the borough.50:25 - Planet Reigate area sport51:40 - Planet Reigate Stars - thanking local heroes. This week from Redhill 52:30 - The Good Time Guide: Local things to do and places to go this coming week. 58:35 - The 60-second Soundscape: before we go, at the end of the show, natural sounds from a place you know. This week from Leigh.If you get value from The Planet Reigate Podcast, please give us value back in return; click here to support us with a small donation: www.buymeacoffee.com/theplanetreigatepodcast or share us with your colleagues. CREDITS:The seven-note Planet Reigate Theme is ©Peter StewartOther music www.Pond5.com:GTG - inspiringaudio Item ID: 116855857NEWS - ThomPie Item ID: 75456323STARS - jwsaudio Item ID: 073206386 SOUNDSCAPE PolkadotFlowersMusic Item ID: 136304431GUITAR - Frogard Item ID: 114324148DRAGON fx https://soundbible.com/ Listen: https://linktr.ee/PlanetReigatePodcastWeb: www.ThePlanetReigatePodcast.comFacebook: www.Facebook.com/ThePlanetReigatePodcastX (Twitter): https://twitter.com/PlanetReigateEmail: [email protected] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
This is the Planet Reigate podcast.
Hello and this is Peter Stewart, episode 49 of the aforementioned podcast across the hills, the high streets and the heats of Reigate, Redhill and Merston, Buckland, Betchworth and Brockham and also the other satellite villages across what we call the Planet Reigate area. And this is how we're reflecting and celebrating our love of life around here this week.
And my guests, I met at a pub in Lye, and the evening involved drinks and sticks and some music. Hmm. Well, they're three members of a local group that's been going for nearly 100 years, but is set to fold before they reach their centenary, losing decades of tradition and social history. Hear from some of the East Surrey Morris men later on in the show.
In the news this week, yeah, audio clips of the councillors at that big Harlequin meeting in the Town Hall. I'll bring you up to date with the fate of that theatre and cinema building. Reigate and Redhill looting the status of Divisional Police HQ. I'll tell you why some staff are moving from Reigate Police Station to Leatherhead.
We bid farewell to the Belfry's oldest and most significant store, which closes its doors for the final time this weekend. New rules about dog walking locally are set to come to force. I'll explain what they are. The local group offering to turn grapes in your garden into authentic English wine.
And if you have a bit of time and you like things that rhyme or singing just for fun, then you could be the one to give your time for free as a Rhyme Time Helper at a local library. Details on the way. And in sport, hear about the Surrey Walking Rugby Festival that's in the area this weekend. I can't believe I did that.
Plus, we have the good time guide, of course, of events across the area across the week ahead. Planet Rygate stars from Red Hill and our 60-second soundscape before we go at the end of the show. Again, from Lye.
This is the Planet Rygate podcast with Peter Stewart.
And you'll find the time that each of those features are on the show in our show notes so you can scooch straight through to that point and also put out social media posts during the week with links that take you straight to specific parts of the show so you can follow us on Twitter, X and Facebook. and Insta to get those.
And don't forget to follow the show in your favourite podcast app so you don't miss an episode. Got a message this week which said, just re-emailing you about your coverage of the Red Hill test route. Yeah, we've been talking about this for a couple of weeks. Local driving instructor Martin brought our attention to the state of some of the roads.
Overgrown hedgerows, missing signs, signs which are... kind of fallen over and actually in the hedgerows, one of which, which was posted on social media by Martin, shows one of the signs showing the speed limit upside down, which is obviously a bit bizarre. He said the speed limit is too fast, the road markings need to be repainted as well.
So we've been following that, and he has had a meeting with Surrey County Council recently and actually driven with them through the roads that he wants to be...
kind of cut back and and and reworked repainted and the re-signed and so on so we've got a bit of success in that neck of the woods and uh david mentioned just emailing you on your coverage of that red hill test route to the lack of signs roads and lack of information generally What a great and very important subject. Been living around here for many years. It doesn't seem to get any better.
Well done to the driving instructor for reaching out. Let's hope to see some changes very soon. David, yeah, absolutely. Thank you for listening and thank you for taking the time and trouble to get in touch with us at hello at theplanetrygatepodcast.com.
Marie's got in touch to say, I think it's a great addition to the area, the Planet Reigate podcast, and for the information and promotion of local businesses and events. And Dave says it's a lot of fun and really looking forward to hearing more of the podcast. Guys, thanks very much indeed for getting in touch. Again, hello at theplanetreigatepodcast.com.
The Good Time Guide. Things to do and places to go on the Planet Reigate podcast.
And you have two bites of the cherry to find out. Things to do and places to go because we have, first of all, the Good Time Guide for this weekend, Saturday and Sunday, and then a little bit later on in the show, Monday to Friday, and also next Saturday as well, so you can plan.
a week in advance and of course if you want a mention for your charity or non-profit event always look particularly favourably on those let us know about it fill out the form you'll find on theplanetrygatepodcast.com and if you want more mentions and early mentions to get those early ticket sales then talk to us about one of our Planet Rygate supporters packages email me for more information hello at theplanetrygatepodcast.com
Starting off with Saturday the 17th. Come along to our community jumble sale. Clothes, toys, books, puzzles, crafts. Bring a blanket for your knick-knacks. Cash, I don't understand that. Bring a blanket for your knick-knacks. I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. Anyway, also, they would like to know a little bit more about your ideas on a mural design for the wall in the garden.
So join us and enjoy some light refreshments. They say this is at Observatory Walk Communal Garden. Saturday the 17th, 2 till 4pm, all residents welcome. Yeah, don't forget that blanket. Don't forget your knick-knacks. Take those along as well. Dream Cars Redhill have got a cruise night from 7 o'clock on Saturday. Quote, it's the ultimate step back in time.
Come early and rest overnight at one of the many local hotels, the perfect staycation. Well, actually, we don't need to because we live locally, but this is what's happening. It's going to be a signposted route, and it's from 7 o'clock till late, and it's going to be a leisure drive route all around the kind of holey area.
And if you want some more information about the classics, the hot rods, the lead sleds, the wagons, the cruisers, the flat rods, the corvettes, the Mustangs, and the pickup trucks, it sounds really interesting, doesn't it? Then you can phone 07973 400 245. Their motto is keep it low and keep it slow. Yeah, it's all happening in and around the Redhill area.
Head for RH1 1QA if you want to either take part or see what's going on there. Join us for a night of nostalgia, delicious food and dancing till the early hours at the Noughties Night. This is happening at Reigate Manor on Saturday. And more details from Reigate Manor, of course, for a night of nostalgia, delicious food and dancing till the early hours, they say.
And again, if you would like some more information on any of those, then get in touch with the people I've mentioned or their phone numbers or you can get in contact with me. Hello at theplanetreigatepodcast.com.
The Planet Reigate podcast. Great stories from... Lye.
It's a Monday evening. We're standing outside the Plough pub in Lye and... some people who are joining me who are wearing some rather unusual clothes. I'm joined by the East Surrey Morris Men and this is actually one of their last ever dances.
It's likely to be their very final summer and I've got three gentlemen with me who are first of all going to explain about the Morris Men and what they do and what they're about to perform here outside the plough and
and also tell me a little bit more about their history and the story, and about why they may not be here for next summer, and why that is a terrific shame, because they've got a big anniversary coming up. Phil is the bag man. That means that you're the secretary. You're kind of doing a lot of the admin and so on. That's right, yes.
So, Phil, first of all, tell me about... Thank you very much indeed for inviting me down. Tell me a little bit more about the East Surrey Morris men.
Well the East Surrey Morris Men were formed in 1926. The Morris was in a bad state in the late 19th century and it was saved from extinction really by Cecil Sharp who was a folk music collector. and the English Folk Dance Society was involved in training new people to dance the Morris, having collected the dances from the Cotswold area in particular.
East Surrey Morrismen were formed from the English Folk Dance Society's East Surrey district in 1926. to perform the Morris dances that have been collected. What are Morris dances? What do they signify? What are they for? What's their point? They're not really for anything. They're for enjoyment and they're an artistic expression.
So nothing to do with fertility dances for crops or for anything else? There's no strong evidence for that. I mean, there's some dances that are clearly related to that. So we do a dance called bean setting, for example, where you use the sticks to poke the ground and...
pretending you're planting beans and there are other dances that have got an agricultural context but there isn't really any evidence that it's systematically for fertility It was used in the 19th century. It was mainly a rural tradition by then. And some of the men that were involved would have been collecting money from audiences, as we do today, to top up their income.
It's not really that reason why we collect. We're more for pay for some of our costs. And we also make donations to charity from time to time as well. And how long have you been involved? I joined East Surrey in 1989 and my first dancing out season was the summer of 1990, so 34 years now.
OK, well, let's move on to Robin. You're a relative newcomer, then, by the sound of it, aren't you?
You've just been here for about ten years, isn't it? Yeah, I'm a newbie. What do you get out of it? It's fun. It's social. You come to great settings like this. You make great friends. It's just an expression of joy to me.
I'm going to whisper this, and forgive me for saying it, but you know there's a few people out there that kind of look on Morris Dancers as a little bit unusual, a little bit odd.
Yeah, yeah. Wow, they're the odd ones, really, aren't they? You know, every nation has a version of folk dancing. It's folk dancing, isn't it? You know, it's just inherent. And dancing is one of the most fundamental human traits. You know, wherever you go, anthropologists will tell you, people will dance. And, you know, I think it's a particular point at the moment to think,
the Ukrainian folk dance is supposed to be one of the most difficult in the world and you just think well which would be better for Ukrainians at the moment to be dancing their folk dancing or to be doing what they're doing for me that was very much part of it actually that Just having fun is a very human thing and it's a good thing.
And Phil, you were explaining to me a little bit earlier on about how intricate the dances are with the different beats and things like that. Together with perhaps some of the dances I think have some words or some chants and there's music and there's sticks and there's bells and all sorts of things going on. It's not just kind of dancing or swaying to a disco beat, is it?
It's a bit more complicated than that. No, no, no. And we pride ourselves on the quality and the standard of the dance. So most of the dancers are in sets, usually six, sometimes eight. And when you're dancing in a set, obviously one of the points of that is that you're trying to be as consistent as you can with the other people in the set.
You're moving relative to other people, but also you're trying to do the same thing. So if you're doing a particular movement, you're trying to synchronise it so you're all landing on the same foot at the same time, for example. And it takes a lot of training to do that. We do practice in the winter.
Even though we've got quite a good big repertoire, we occasionally learn new dances still, even now. But these are new dances to you. They're not new new dances, I would guess. Most of them are new dances to us. Occasionally they're new dances that someone's made them up.
All of this intricate footwork and so on is good for the brain. It's good for the cognition and so on, isn't it?
Absolutely, yeah, definitely. Coordination. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And balance is very good. Yes, good for that.
mentioned the music a few moments ago keith is also with us you kind of hold everything together in a certain way don't you because you're the man with the music in a way it's more difficult as time goes on but um i first picked up an accordion 67 years ago and i seemed to like it i danced at the time but then after a while i gave up in 74 and just played music
There are two other essentials that go with music. There's the dancing and there's the song. So you put the three together and you've got a damn good evening. Yeah.
But I suppose with the music, that could be written down in a way that the dances couldn't be written down.
It could be, but it tends not to be. I mean, I've learned an awful lot of Morris tunes just by ear, literally by ear. There is a book now which has kind of solidified the Morris music, but it wasn't that way before.
But also I suppose that it's almost part of the charm of the whole Morris tradition, is it, that... Different villages would have different variations of dances and would adapt and change.
We specialise in two or three traditions which kind of suit us. We love it.
That's the main thing. We love it. But unfortunately, Robin, not enough people love it. I mean, Phil hinted at this earlier on in his, I think, very first answer when he said, when the Surrey Morris men started up, that actually you're nearing 100 years, but you may not quite get there.
2026 would have been our 100th year. We were really hoping to get there, but with declining health and people moving on and that, sadly we've had to accept this will probably be the last year that we dance.
Why is it that people don't want to join Morris groups anymore?
When I joined, first of all, in the sort of late 60s or 70s more, there was a sort of revival of it. It was quite a trendy thing to do, you know, and I think a lot of us would have joined at a similar time.
I think also people don't like to join groups and have a time when they have to actually turn up. You'll see the same thing, you know, rugby club that I belong to used to have five teams, it's now got one, and that's not unusual. Brass bands...
I guess there's so many more calls on people's time now.
Yeah, there's going to the shops on a Saturday. There are an awful lot of stag nights. They've become stag weekends.
Yeah, and years ago when shops weren't open on a Sunday, people were looking for something else to do and this would have fitted in.
So many other things to do, that's it. And phones, you know, technology has changed the way we live so much. And in a way, you know, that's one of the nice things about Morris dancing is it keeps you very earthed. It's a very natural thing to do. It's a world away from that technology. But not a lot of people, especially younger people, appreciate that.
And yet you would have thought that people like history and provenance of food and getting back to nature and the green thing. Morris dancing would kind of fit in with that, wouldn't you think?
Yeah, and there are areas of Morris dancing that I think are still growing and are still going on. You know, Border Morris particularly, which is quite, how would you describe Border Morris? It's a lot more boisterous than what we do, isn't it?
Noisiness and flash. Energy rather than gracefulness.
And a lot of mixed sides now. I mean, it used to be a long time ago it was virtually all male. Much more social.
Well, I do notice that yours is a male side. I mean, East Surrey Morris men kind of gives that away. So if you invited women, would that help you get over that finishing post for 100 years?
We've got a female musician. We have got no problem with women joining. It's just that they don't particularly want to because we are a... A gang of males, really, aren't we? But the side we're with tonight are very mixed.
What is in your repertoire tonight, Keith? Is it you that chooses?
The squire chooses, and then he says, play this, and I go, well, I haven't done that for ages, but I'll have a try.
The first dance we're going to do is a dance called Flowing Bowl from the Adderbury tradition, which is a stick dance. We've got a field town dance called Dearest Dickie on the schedule. If we've got eight dancers that can do it this evening, we might do Vandals of Hammerwich, which is a dance from the city of Litchfield. Or if we haven't, we'll do the Upton on Seven Stick dance.
There's quite a few that about six dancers will do. And of course, we've got our colleagues from Rampant Rooster who will also be doing something. I've no idea what they'll do.
Based over in Dorking, usually, they were telling me earlier.
Are there any kind of traditional Surrey dances or... Not that have been recorded. There were certainly dances in Surrey, but they've never been written down, so they've been lost.
Well, gentlemen, thank you ever so much for your time. You can get back to your beers before... That's kind of sustenance, isn't it? It's going to be thirsty work in the next few minutes. And we're going to record what it is that you're doing and some of your music, and we'll play that a little bit later on at the end of the show in our 60-second soundscape here on the Planet Reigate podcast.
Really good evening down there a few weeks ago at the Plough Inn light. Now, if you want to get involved, if you want to know more about the East Surrey Morrismen, if you're thinking to yourself, it would be a great shame, wouldn't it, to see all those traditions being lost. ESMM for eastsurreymorrismen.org.uk or bagman at esmm.org.uk on email. or 07951759647.
It's the traditions, it's the culture and so on. And also think what that kind of group could bring to your pub. It's a bit of an attraction. Also to your village green, your fair, your fate, whatever it happens to be. Just think about how sad it would be to lose them on events like Midsummer's Day and events such as that. Can we join together? Can we help them make it to at least 100 years?
OK, let's turn our attention now to our new sequence and a big night on Thursday night for the Harlequin at what was called an extraordinary council meeting. Now, essentially, the council has decided to defer detailed plans for the future of the theatre complex and indeed a whole arts provision in our borough, likely until January next year.
They say that's because a structural survey on rack concrete in the building says Thank you very much. That was agreed to, but there'll be more detailed discussions on the way forward, as I say, early next year.
Now, essentially, the aerated concrete rack was found in the building a year ago, which closed it, and that's put pay to anything happening there, either council-run or community groups and schools and so on.
There have been a few pop-up events at the Belfry and also the Castle Grounds in Reigate and the Panto in Memorial Park, but certainly for the pantomime, not another one of those this Christmas. Now... Coming up now, some of what was said in that council meeting on Thursday night, including some answers to these questions like, why don't we know more about the problem yet?
Why is there no insurance? And if there is, why don't we know more about what's being paid, by who and when? Why can't there be a new theatre as fast as a temporary one was built in Dartford? Why wasn't the Harlequins rack problem sorted as fast as the one next door at the library? and more. Here's our special report, exclusive to the Planet Reigate podcast.
Well, first, Councillor Victor Levansky, the Deputy Leader and Executive Member for Finance and Assets, brought us up to date with the progress of examination of the building.
Officers met with representatives of the head leaseholder on the 7th of August 2024. At this meeting, plans for further survey work were discussed. and work is being undertaken to refine those plans, including the timelines for the required survey work.
The date for this survey work has yet to be confirmed, though please be assured that members and officers are working to secure this date confirmation as soon as possible.
And on other possible buildings which are being looked at to house the theatre or arts provision in the area.
Work to explore these options is already underway, including firstly exploring the feasibility of creating a new theatre in the soon-to-be-vacant M&S unit in the Belfry, looking at the type of cultural offer that the Harlequin could provide in another Redhill town centre unit, potentially in the Rise. And thirdly, considering the potential to work in partnership with another organisation
such as a school, to create a medium-term cultural offering using an existing space part-time.
Conservative councillor Rich Michalowski said that the town should stay at the heart of culture in the borough.
Redhill, by its virtue of its central position and accessibility, continues to be the ideal location for such an offering. I feel for those who have worked at the Harlequin, through absolutely no fault of their own, they'll be the most impacted should we support the recommended option.
Tonight, the role of this executive is to focus on what is in the best interests of the borough, which includes Redhill, and I trust that's what we will do.
Council leader Richard Bigg said that local people will be invited to take part in the decision-making process over the next several months, including an event in October, the date and location of which is yet to be decided.
It's important that we find ways of keeping you informed of progress, but also we really need to understand, while we've got this opportunity, what we do going forward and we want your input on that. And that's why that October engagement session has been done. It may be an evening, it may be over a weekend, we're still working on it.
But we want as many people as possible to come and tell us what they feel the future of live theatre arts culture in our borough would be.
And as part of that process to involve local people, he urged residents to write to Westminster.
I'd urge every member of the public to write to the government and the Arts Council to ask them for funding, because the more funding we can pull together, we know we're going to need money. There is no question. It's going to cost money.
And the council leader was heckled as he continued to explain what the situation was.
Myself and all the executive have been pushing for the survey. We want to know what we're dealing with and what the cost implications are. I think it's well understood... Sorry. Sorry. We've been pushing for the survey. We obviously haven't got a survey yet. As soon as we've got... Sorry, if you keep in track, I will have to ask you to be quiet, please, while I'm speaking. Please.
What the cost implications are. I think it's well understood that we are not the owners of the theatre and that we lease it from the owners. This has necessitated discussions as to who and how should pay for both surveys and ultimately the work to rectify the issue. The motion that was put forward in July wasn't costed.
And therefore, rather than rejecting the motion, as stated in the papers, I'm proposing that we defer it until we have that information for better and more meaningful discussion about the motion when that information is available. And that will be both the survey and the business case. And I'm therefore recommending that Recommendation 5 on the paper is reworded
to defer the council motion of July 23rd 2024 until the appropriate information is available as set out in paragraphs 24 to 29 of the report.
And Richard Biggs said now was a good time to think about the long-term future needs of any theatre or performing arts space in the borough.
We actually have an opportunity now to evaluate what we need for the next 40 years and how we provide that. We have more and more groups looking for dance studios, rehearsal space, as well as businesses looking for conference venues. Now seems to me to be the time to discuss how we deliver this. That's why we have the consultation event in October.
We want to provide the best we can for all our residents. It's important all the way through this process that we do everything we can to ensure a long-term future for live theatre and the performing arts, whilst obviously ensuring value for money for all our residents across the borough.
Now, there has been suggestions of following what Dartford Council did in a similar situation when Rack was found in the Orchard Theatre there, and they set up a temporary theatre to replace the main building. Council leader Richard Bigg saying that situation is rather different from the one they face here in Redhill.
Firstly, they wholly own the theatre. They also have a contractual obligation to the providers of all their events in the theatre. Their part of the contract is to provide a space. To meet that obligation, the cost of their temporary theatre was £2.7 million. Work has started on repairing the roof.
It's a fairly simple roof structure and therefore has made the job easier and they're planning to complete the work sometime nearer the end of 2025. The planned works and upgrade to the Orchard Theatre have been planned for a number of years and had already been budgeted for within the council's budget. The cost of the works to the Orchard Theatre is between £10 and £11 million.
I also understand there's been some comparisons between the library and the theatre. Whilst there was some rack in the library, I understand in a plant room, the construction of the library ceiling is fundamentally different to that required for an auditorium roof, and the cost implications, again, are different.
It's also worth mentioning that Surrey had also budgeted for refurbishment, similar to Dartford, and therefore already had money available within existing agreed budgets.
I will continue to do everything I can to ensure we secure the very best provision for arts and culture, for live theatre, for performers, for musicians and for backstage technicians, not just for the medium term, but long into the future.
I would ask everyone here to take part in that process to form the future and make sure the youth of the future have got lots of opportunities within this borough.
Well, as you would expect, other councillors were given an opportunity to speak as well. Here's Andrew Proudfoot of the Greens.
Continued closure of the Harlequin represents a massive generational cultural loss to the community. shutting down opportunities for our youth to find their passion and lifetime interest for the stage, for dance, for music. Just as we need to protect our green space and playing fields used for football, rugby and athletics, we need the harlequin.
We know very well these arts are life transforming for the development of children and they are also life transforming for adults and they enhance our collective happiness and well-being. The Harlequin Theatre is no dreary enterprise, but it is a jewel in the crown for the arts. It fulfills a major role in this community.
We need to cherish its contribution to our happy lives and not carve at the restitution of its unlucky structural history. The Harlequin had been on track to break even after carefully thought-out refurbishment. Other council theatres blighted with rack since September 2023 have been refurbished and subsequently reopened.
Eleven months on, this council has still not done the essential intrusive rack survey or even got ahead with planning for our future theatre provision. And what of all the important interim plans for facilities to bridge those months of construction works? Furthermore, this paper proposes cuts to the Harlequin's professional staff
and add yet more to the mountain of difficulties faced by the arts in this borough.
I think it is right that it is deferred, so it's considered at the same time as the business case. But my concern is this. The motion was asking us to look to the long term, have vision and a strategy, not to commit reserves and money, to actually have a vision. Vision means going beyond what you think you can achieve and then working out ways of getting there, rather than starting by looking...
in your pockets to see how much money you have and then deciding whether you want to walk forward at all. I think we need to have that long-term perspective and let it guide our decisions here today.
That's why I think it's unfortunate that the proposal is to defer the motion and that we aren't able to consider the relevant parts of it, the parts that relate to the agenda today, such as the interim facilities, which appear to be only continuing for the next few months, while the business case in January is not looking to start things until the medium term next year.
Jonathan Essex, also of the Green Party. So, if the pop-up in the Belfry does stop, could there be a longer-term plan for the theatre in the shopping centre?
As you know, the pop-up has got to close, and we're not sure exactly when that will be. It's under... different circumstances and unfortunately not able to be discussed at the moment, but I've had with Councillor Michalowski a meeting with the belfry to find what other opportunities we can use when that one closes.
So we have started those discussions and hopefully that gives us some opportunities with the belfry working together.
Mark Smith is a Labour councillor. He asked everyone to remember the staff who may lose their jobs.
You can replace equipment and you can replace a roof, but you can't replace the people who know how that building works and how things slot together. I'm really concerned that any sort of medium or long-term option that is put in place, any of these options here, won't work without the people. And I don't believe that this council has exhausted all available options or avenues of discussion.
Conservative councillor Sam Walsh also said that now is an opportunity to have a refreshed offer for the arts for the whole area.
What do our residents want in the short term, the medium term and definitely in the long term? Because actually something... that is important to the cultural hub of Reigate and Banstead is Redhill and the Harlequin, whatever form it may take.
So it would be very useful to understand what that definition of short to medium term is so we can actually ensure that we factor in the thought process, the decision making is there for everybody.
And here's the council leader again.
The medium-term plan will be a plan based on not having access to the theatre and having access to the theatre. We've got to have both of those because at some point in that medium term, but long term, we may well need a much bigger theatre. We may well not need a cinema. We may well need more dance studios, more performance space, more art gallery space. All of those things we may need.
in the future, in the long term. And that's a lot more. But they need to be started, as Councillor Terry asked me earlier, they need to be started at the same time, those conversations, so that we can provide and we can adapt while that medium term's going on. And that's what I expect us to be doing.
So what is the situation with the building? What do we know? Michael Blacker is from the Conservatives. He was answered by the council leader.
We still haven't had a report... on the extent and what in the nature is of the rack of concrete. Is it in planks? Is it in situ? We don't know. We're rather putting the cart before the horse by trying to get rid of all our staff without actually knowing what we're going to have to do to the building to put it right and how... Sorry, Chairman, and how long it's going to take.
And I think, to me, if I was in charge of the building, that would have been the first thing I would have done, find out what's wrong and how long it's going to take and how much it's going to cost. And I think that's what ought to be done. APPLAUSE
As we explained at the beginning, when you don't own the building, it's always more complicated because there's costs involved. If you're living in a rented flat and there's a major problem, you don't go and pay for it. You ask the landlord to pay for it. And those sort of conversations have to go on. So I am going to actually turn to our head of property, Dan Jones.
We know a lot of information. about the rack panelling in the Harlequin. There's complexities around the plant and equipment in which some of that rack supports the roof covering also the atrium as well. The issue partly is because it's very difficult to inspect every single panel given the size and nature of the building.
And secondly, obviously the complexities around the ownership and responsibilities and that's what we're working towards at the moment is securing that intrusive survey, which will take us to the next level. But it's not that we don't know the extent of the rack or the extent of the issue. It's defining that with the actual head leaseholder.
Green councillor Victoria Chester next. She cut to the chase with a series of questions.
Is it explicitly stated in any documents relating to the terms of the lease, rental or some such element that Reigate and Banstead cannot take action without recourse to Aviva, their management agents or any other third party? If there are concerns about Reigate and Banstead initiating survey works themselves independently in terms of admitting any potential liabilities or some such,
is there not a way that this could be addressed with the correct legal approach? Ideally, we want to retain a positive, constructive relationship with these other partners involved in this business relationship, but surely not to the extent that absolutely no progress is made at all.
If we are truly being held back by external partners or other factors beyond our control, and not just failing ourselves to progress things of our own accord, then surely this is something the public should know about. I would like to know if the council has undertaken any investigations into the potential cost of works.
so that we have some idea of the financial implications of any actions we may now take. National studies suggest that every pound spent in the theatre results in approximately £1.60 expenditure in the locality.
So I'd be interested to know what sort of figure this would result in if the Harlequins' most recent successful statistics, for example, from early 2022-23, were maybe brought into this equation, how much actually I'll be losing out by not having the theatre operating.
Thank you. The business that it brings in to Redhill, £618 per £1,000 of ticket sales. So for Redhill, that's £618,000 of business that is potentially affected. What that figure doesn't take into account is the additional business that the rise with the light has brought into Redhill. So it's a little bit of a different balance.
Green councillor Joel Gabriel also had some pertinent questions.
Why is there no transparency over the extent to which we've had such conversations with the insurers to understand the extent to which we've tried to organize a survey and so on and so forth? I feel that we've been told it's very complicated and it's not trivial because landowners and leasing and insurance and so on. But could we have some transparency over that going forward, please?
It was said that issues regarding ownership of the building, discussion with landlords, liabilities of different parties and insurance, all subject to some intricate and private discussions, and that the council lawyers are involved. Jonathan Essex again now. He wanted reassurance that the decisions won't be deferred again come the new year.
We live in hope now that a business...
plan or a business case comes back in january that lives up to our expectations but when it arrives it then needs a further strategy or a further action plan down the line and that leads to a further thing which needs a further thing and so on and he added that there was a danger of having a perfect solution at some time in the future rather than a less good solution that was happening now it feels that we're dancing around the difference between the perfect and the good
You, Leda, have talked about the aspirations of five years plus of having the perfect theatre. On the other end of the spectrum, those in the arts want a theatre they can use, a good theatre now. We want a good plan, not necessarily a perfect plan, and many might prefer a good plan soon rather than a perfect plan now. in the long term.
So, again, the council has decided to defer detailed plans for the future of the theatre complex and arts and culture provision in Reigate and Banstead Borough, likely until January next year. I heard this from Richard Biggs, council leader, through to the Planet Reigate podcast late Thursday. It was a difficult decision, but sometimes that's what we have to do.
I will continue to reiterate our long-term ambitions as well as our short-term measures to ensure we do everything we can for arts and live theatre. So, again, that appraisal there, courtesy of the Planet Reigate podcast. OK, let's continue with other stories in the news. Well, talking about rack, that's caused the closure of Reigate's police station as well.
As you know, it's partway there between Reigate and Red Hill. But it's not just a police station. It's also a divisional HQ for Surrey Police for Tangeridge, Reigate and Banstead, Mole Valley, Epsom and Ewell boroughs. A custody suite, cells in other words, were transferred to a separate larger unit in Salford several years ago.
And after Rack was discovered at the Reigate base nearly a year ago, staff were moved to Causden and then to the fire base at Ray Park Inn. in April of this year. Now, okay, put that on hold for one moment and I'll tell you another thread and then I'll join both of these threads together. So, Surrey Police HQ is at Guildford.
It's in an old manor house over there and it's been added to and developed in a bit of a ramshackle way without buildings. Really, really poor parking there.
mount brown now in 2018 it was announced that surrey police hq would move from gilford to leatherhead and they bought a building there's just kind of around the back of the of the railway station there but then they cancelled that decision in 2021 and decided to develop the gilford base after all and try to sell the leatherhead building but until now they haven't been able to
So, and here those two threads come together. Guess where the new East Surrey Divisional HQ is going to be? Well, Surrey Police say they did look at redeveloping Reigate Police Station and also a possible Eastern Divisional HQ, possibly in Redhill.
But instead, they're going to keep part of the Leatherhead building for the four boroughs instead for the divisional HQ with about 400 members of staff, although they still have to get planning permission from Mole Valley Council. And they've called that location the heart of East Surrey. There have been a couple of mentions on Facebook groups over the course of the past week or so about how
Leatherhead can possibly be the heart of East Surrey, but let's put that to one side. But they do say, Surrey Police, they will, quote, Lisa Townsend is Police and Crime Commissioner for Surrey. She's quoted as saying, So, where does that leave Reigate and Redhill and Merston as far as day-to-day policing goes? Well, the statement says...
As part of the force's commitment to having a physical policing presence in every borough and district, safer neighbourhood teams will operate out of new sites to be identified in Epsom and Ewell, Reigate and Banstead and Tandridge.
also Mole Valley as well, because obviously we cover Buckland, Betchworth, Brockham, which are in Mole Valley, but of course they are that bit closer to Leatherhead, although, yeah, not a huge amount closer. Quote, there will be a minimum of one front counter facility per division, enabling members of the public to access police services.
While locations will be reviewed, there will be no fewer than we currently provide, and therefore no reduction in service. It's not immediately obvious what that means. Will there be a front counter for police officers somewhere in Reigate, Redhill, Merstham? It gives the impression there will be. Where is that likely to be?
Well, it doesn't sound as though it's going to be the current Reigate base, so where could it be instead? Some police are already, as I mentioned earlier, at Ray Park, but that's not really easy for people to get to. But then why do you need... to go and visit a police station. It's very, very rare, isn't it? What would you need to do?
Show a driving license or report for some misdemeanor or maybe hand in some lost property? But then it's always reassuring to know there is actually a base that you can drive past and you can see
Isn't it?
It's that kind of visible policing. And it's good to see police coming in and out in cars or on foot or whatever to patrol the local area. So where is that likely to be is the first question that I would raise. And the second question I would raise is what then is going to happen to police? The Reigate Police Station building and that whole site is going to be redeveloped. Who owns it?
Well, presumably Surrey Police. Presumably they don't rent it. So what's going to happen to that? Is it going to be houses? Is it going to be flats? Is it going to be something else? A couple of people have posted on Facebook over the course of the last week, well, maybe it could be the site of a new school, because there is a certain school in Reigate that's looking for a new base, potentially.
So could it be there? Maybe, possibly, perhaps. And also, as we've been mentioning on the Planet Reigate podcast over the course of the last several weeks, Marks & Spencer's, which is closing in Red Hills, Belfry this weekend, is also looking for a new base, they have said already, for a larger food hall only, somewhere in the Rye Gate, Red Hill area. Could it be there?
If it's not Marks & Spencer's, could it be a supermarket? Or is it more likely, as I mentioned earlier, to be flats? We don't know. There were some suggestions on social that that building is listed. I've checked and it's not. So what is going to happen to Reigate Police Station, both the site and also their front desk facilities?
We'll keep an eye over this developing story and keep you updated on the Planet Reigate podcast. Well, as I mentioned there, bear a thought for those at Marks & Spencer's in Redhill, where the last day of trading is Saturday. The store has been at the Belfry since it opened, but a decision was made by M&S head office to close down all medium-sized stores.
That's despite the store in Redhill having increased footfall, as the overall Belfry does as well. And that bucks the national trend. The nearby store in Crawley has also closed. As I mentioned, it is understood, however, that M&S, which has that small food hall in Reigate, is looking for a site for a larger food hall somewhere in the Redhill-Reigate area.
And again, our thoughts with the Redhill team, whose last day of trading is this coming weekend. Local dog walkers will be limited to four dogs only. That in Rygate and Bandstead, down from six. It's after a survey by local people. New play areas in Westvale Park in Hawley will be dog exclusion areas, so no dogs at all there.
The area of Earlswood Lakes, where dogs will need to be kept on a lead, is going to be extended to include the grassed area to the west of the lower lake, up to the footpath leading from the car park. Yeah, if you can picture that, that kind of makes sense, doesn't it?
Dog PSPO's give the police and council powers to issue fixed penalty notices to anyone responsible for a dog that they reasonably believe is in breach of the PSPO. So be aware of that. Local dog walkers limited from six down to four in Reigate and Banstead Borough. And also, let's talk about another open space, Somerset Road. Meadvale Play Area is due to be refurbished from September 24th.
They're looking to change the surfacing to a seamless rubber granule surface, a surface which provides better cushioning and helps reduce injuries from falls. So look out for that being closed in September. Do you have grape vines growing in your garden? Do you want to turn them into delicious English wine?
Well, if you've got grapes potentially rotting in your garden each year and you want to turn them into quaffable vineyard-quality wine, then you can get in touch with the Secret Walled Vineyard. They say after last year's success at making a white and rosé wine from grapes donated from local gardens, we plan to do it all over again. So if you haven't got in touch with them already...
then please do. Next summer you could be drinking vineyard-quality wine made from your very own grapes. For more details, secretwalledvineyard.co.uk. And they're based in the South Nutfield, Redhill area. Mention this at the start of the show. Merstham Library is looking for Rhyme Time volunteers. If you like helping children learn new things and enjoy singing for fun.
And available on Fridays, 10.15 to 11.15 in the morning. They say they've got the volunteering role just for you. You can go to surreycc.gov.uk slash libraries slash volunteering for more information on that one.
Woodlands Lettings, connecting landlords with tenants for over 20 years. If you have a property to let, pop into our office on Station Road by the Belfry Main entrance for a coffee and a chat, or call 01737 372 797.
Still to come in this week's edition of the Planet Rygate podcast, we celebrate local heroes with our weekly Planet Rygate Star Award. And before we go, at the end of the show, a natural sound from a place you know. And we scooch back to the plough pub in Lye. where, of course, we hear from the East Surrey Morris men in one of their last ever performances. But first, here's this week's sport.
And Old Rygation Rugby Club are playing host this weekend to the Surrey Walking Rugby Festival. Yeah, they're hosting it this Sunday. It's a festival celebrating rugby and friendship, young and old, ladies and gentlemen, playing together with spirit, skill and sportsmanship, or sportswoman sportsmanship. There'll be live music, food stalls and a local brewery. They say, see you there.
Details, oldrigationrfc.com. All the details there for the Surrey Walking Rugby Festival in Reigate this Sunday.
Email hello at theplanetreigatepodcast.com Find out more at theplanetrigatepodcast.com. Leave a text or voice message on WhatsApp 07917 874572 and leave a review on your favorite podcast app. Support us at buymeacoffee.com slash theplanetrigatepodcast. Planet Reigate stars, thanking local heroes who are out of this world.
And thank you so much for listening to this week's edition of the Planet Reigate podcast. Our archive shows are at theplanetreigatepodcast.com. this week to Red Hill. And Nicola writes, two amazing girls stopped to help a man who was having a medical emergency in Red Hill Town Centre.
Not many people would have cared enough, nor be prepared to mess up their evening plans to stay and make sure he was properly cared for. We need more people like you in this world, so if that was you, then congratulations. And thank you. You're the recipient of this week's Planet Rygate Star Award.
The Good Time Guide. Things to do and places to go on the Planet Reigate podcast.
Have you ever thought about having a podcast for your charity or cause or business or interest? Well, my audio production and presentation experience may be able to help you. So get in touch if you'd like to talk to me about podcast production. Hello at theplanetreigatepodcast.com. OK, let's move swiftly to The Good Time Guide Part 2.
Things to do and places to go over the next six days, Monday through to next Saturday as well. So we'll start off on Monday the 19th of August. And Merstham Football Club have their summer holiday course for boys and girls aged 4 to 14. It starts on the 19th, goes through to the 23rd, and then week two is the 27th of August through to the 30th at Merstham Football Club on Weldon Way.
Nine in the morning till three in the afternoon. More information, info at mersthamfc.com. On Tuesday, there's another summer holiday event happening, organised by the Stage Studio in Reigate. First of all, they've got a TikTok street dance workshop, which sounds a whole load of fun. I don't think it's my age group, to be fair. In fact, the age group is 10 plus. Oh, I am over 10, to be fair.
It starts on Tuesday the 20th, 11.30 to 2.30. Yeah, TikTok street dance workshop. I know a lot of young people will be interested in that. 20 pound a person. Get ready to groove and learn the latest TikTok dance moves in this energetic workshop. Perfect for budding dancers and TikTok enthusiasts. Well, as you know, I am in a bit of a health kick at the moment.
So, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, all the rest of it. You know, my new slimline frame. I could. No. OK. All right. There's also got a Pokemon workshop on the 21st between 11.30 and 2.30 for 5 to 12-year-olds. Join us for a Pokemon adventure filled with games, crafts, and exciting activities. A must-attend for all Pokemon fans.
And also on the 22nd, let's give you all of these together, yeah, 11.30 to 2.30, 5 to 12-year-old, £20 person, dive into the world of Descendants. with a workshop full of dancing, acting and creative crafts. A fantastic experience for all Disney enthusiasts. It's all happening at Focus House, Bell Street in Reigate. More details, thestagestudioreigate.com.
Also, I should tell you about what's happening at the Archway Theatre in Hawley. Our friends down there are presenting their new production, Rhythm of Life, will take the audience on a journey through existence, showcasing the universal human experience through various musical theatre songs, including hits from the best of Broadway and the West End as well. This sounds different, doesn't it?
Our talented cast, made up of children and adults, will be singing their hearts out as they navigate the audience through the trials and tribulations of life, from childhood, self-discovery and love to heartbreak. Oh, heartbreak. Self-doubt and loss.
This relatable family show will have you tapping your feet, smiling and clapping, possibly wiping a tear, but most of all, it'll leave you feeling nostalgic, happy and uplifted. And I should say... The Planet Reigate podcast is pleased and proud to be official media partner with the Archway Theatre in Hawley.
For more information and booking details, go to archwaytheatre.com or phone 0333 666 3366. And if you would like to be official media partners with us and us with you, then get in touch. Hello at theplanetrigatepodcast.com. You get more exposure and also you get exposure which happens earlier than just the usual five or seven days ahead of the event as well.
And also you get the little jingle as well. Let's move on to Thursday, August the 22nd. The Art Society Reigate says they bring people together through a shared curiosity in the arts. Meetings begin at two o'clock on Thursday, August the 22nd. Reigate Park Church, Park Lane East. And this coming week, the life and works of Marina Abramovich. She's become a hotly debated artist.
Many only know a little of this incredible woman. And so the lecture this week is an amazing opportunity to learn more about Marina Abramovich. In 2023, the Royal Academy hosted her first ever UK exhibition. So find out a bit more about the woman and her work at that event organised by the Art Society in Reigate at Park Church on Thursday from two o'clock in the afternoon.
Next Saturday, East Surrey Walkers Group have got an event. Meet at Marjorie Wood National Trust Car Park. Charge of £4 is payable by phone, unless you're a National Trust member. You walk across Banstead Heath to Walton-on-the-Hill, back through Mogador. No styles, but liable to be very muddy in places, particularly if we've had heavy rain.
circular walk starting time at 10 estimated finish time 12 30 we rarely cross over the m25 but marjorie wood is just a hop skip and a jump away isn't it from our core planet reigate area robert is going to be leading it all if you've got any questions or concerns you can ask him about them 07 967 002 126
And don't forget, if you run a local group or a charity or you've got an event which is upcoming, then tell me all about it and I'll tell the rest of the Planet Reigate area. And if you ever need a host for an event, an award ceremony or even a carol concert, yes, I know that time of year is coming up, get in touch and I'll be happy to meet and discuss how I can help as well.
The email is the same, hello at theplanetreigatepodcast.com.
The 60 Second Soundscape. Local natural sounds uninterrupted.
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The Planet Reigate podcast was produced and presented by Peter Stewart.