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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

Elon gets paid, Apple's AI pop, OpenAI revenue rip, Macro debate & Inside Trump Fundraiser

Fri, 14 Jun 2024

Description

(0:00) Bestie intros: bringing up the energy! (8:48) Trump fundraiser recap (23:16) Elon's comp package approved by shareholders (40:12) Apple announces "Apple Intelligence" and ChatGPT deal at WWDC (50:17) OpenAI reportedly hits a $3.4B revenue run rate (1:05:26) Macro debate: State of the US economy? Follow Tim Naki: https://www.instagram.com/tim.naki Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://twitter.com/Jason https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://twitter.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@all_in_tok Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: https://www.instagram.com/tim.naki https://x.com/eoghan/status/1799161733766062545 https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1800979079472288145 https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1797086962626494840 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1801084780035154058 https://x.com/jhall/status/1795794521604718814 https://fortune.com/2024/06/10/elon-musk-pay-package-tesla-lawyers-delaware-chancery-payout-stock-award-56-billion https://companiesmarketcap.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXeOiIDNNek https://x.com/chiefaioffice/status/1801022115426009309 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=%2Fg%2F11khcfz0y2&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fg%2F11khcfz0y2&hl=en https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/outlook/economic-outlook/jobs-report-may-2024 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003 https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2024.06.10%20Letter%20to%20Fed.%20re%20interest%20rates.pdf https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/07/jobs-report-may-2024-us-job-gains-totaled-272000-in-may.html https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSJOL https://x.com/VinnyLingham/status/1801129023168454907 https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1aw5bbb/world_economy_on_nvidias_shoulders https://www.instagram.com/stocktradingmemes/p/C3qer-sSfb0/?img_index=1 https://x.com/jameslavish/status/1801248976911634648 https://x.com/peterfenton/status/1801300735520608529

Audio
Transcription

0.249 - 8.095 David

Nick, these guys are low energy today, you notice that? You know what we need to do? We need to f***ing gamble. Let's do it, Nick. Let's play a f***ing hand of blackjack. Let's get these guys f***ing amped.

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8.255 - 24.168 Nick

Gentlemen, what an absolute pleasure to walk amongst some goddamn greats. Let me see if I can put a bit of pep in your step with a one-time blackjack hand to kickstart one of the greatest podcasts on earth. It is, I can't confirm this is not AI. You did this? We're going to rock and roll proper today.

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24.761 - 29.503 Jason

Let's go. All right. Let's get some action. Is this guy on right now? LFG.

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29.963 - 42.807 Nick

Mate, I'm actually breaking my own rules for you guys. I filmed today's hand, day 14, but I'm going to film tomorrow's hand for you guys right now. It'll roll out.

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42.867 - 48.969 Freeberg

Hold on. Hold on. Wait a minute, Tim. You are a Kiwi living in Calgary. Is that right?

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49.109 - 51.97 Nick

Correct. Yep. Kiwi living in Calgary. Been here since September 2022. The missus and I.

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53.724 - 59.886 Freeberg

That's fantastic. Welcome to my country. I don't live in Canada anymore.

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59.906 - 70.309 Tim

I don't know how I stumbled across you somewhere and I started watching all your videos on Instagram. They were off the hook, man. Congrats. They're awesome. Thank you. So much fun. Where in New Zealand are you from?

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71.148 - 82.204 Nick

From Taranaki, so West Coast, North Island, certainly not somewhere, it's not a holiday destination for certain if you're going there. It's like dairy farming country. It's beautiful, but it's off the beaten path. So, yeah.

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82.284 - 85.008 Freeberg

And how did you choose Calgary of all places in Canada?

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85.515 - 93.122 Nick

Do you know what? We holidayed here, my fiance and I, May 2022. And we thought it was just going to be a holiday then back to the farm.

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94.224 - 111.299 Nick

But I guess we had that COVID cabin fever like the rest of the world and loved our time here so much that we just decided before we even finished the holiday that we cracked on to getting our visas and got back, sold up my livestock and leased the farm back to my parents. And and made the move. And we haven't looked back.

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111.679 - 116.76 Nick

I don't think they'll be seeing me pulling tits on the dairy farm anytime soon. That's colloquial for milking, by the way.

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118.14 - 133.004 David

So lads, what do we want to do here? We want to put 10K and then give it to one of Tim's mates who's stuck or something. How do we do this? We Mr. Beast this? We give 10K to the next time you get coffee if we win? And give it to the barista or something? What should we do?

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133.164 - 136.685 Freeberg

Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do a 10K free roll for Tim and his fans.

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137.321 - 141.204 Nick

Okay, perfect. So now do you want me to add that to my bet for this one?

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141.704 - 144.566 David

Yes, absolutely. We want to be in a 10K sweat with you.

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144.886 - 151.63 Nick

One and done is absolutely the way to go about this. Here we go. First part we've got to do here is pick out a dealer.

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151.65 - 154.052 David

Are these real dealers or are these AI news? We had a debate.

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154.532 - 170.218 Nick

These definitely are real dealers. They're certainly Eastern European as far as I know. I don't know what their quality of life is like. I imagine they're warehoused somewhere and put on the tools. Now, I went with a young lassie today and she rolled bold and asked for me. So I'm going back to the boats because they've been good to me.

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170.578 - 180.847 David

Yeah, pick a book. Pick a book. Somebody who feels blue collar, who wants to work for us. We need somebody who's a worker. And you have over a million followers now watching this craziness.

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181.447 - 189.554 Nick

Yeah, it's gone from 15,000 to 1.3 million in this entire journey. So, yeah, a little bit nonsensical, but... Okay, this looks like a good... He looks like a hot worker.

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189.574 - 190.415 David

What do you think of this guy, Tim?

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190.595 - 209.77 Nick

He's going to work for us. You're going to cop the insult live as I do it. All righty. It is day 15, going to Blackjack and betting $1.73 I've got. We have a $14,000 bet going on the line for me personally, but I actually have some absolute legends with me today. I'm betting for the besties from the All In podcast as well.

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209.79 - 222.721 Nick

They're going to bring the luck, having been rolled, bowled, and arsed by a young lassie yesterday. So $34,000 goes on the line. Oh, no, no, you guys want $10,000, right? Not $20,000? Jeez, I better not take it.

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222.741 - 223.862 David

Yeah, put a stop for $10,000. Put a stop for $10,000.

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224.874 - 237.223 Nick

did. 24,000 is going on the line. Aldela looks like the kind of bloke who stops at red lights playing GTA. We won't hold that again. I will not, if you will. I need to see good cards. Jackets! Jackets!

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238.027 - 265.229 Tim Naki

I can't believe we've just pulled that off. Oh my God. Did that really happen?

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265.249 - 272.073 Nick

Gentlemen, that has really just happened. You've just turned 10 into 25. Holy. Holy cow.

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273.693 - 278.676 Tim Naki

Oh my God. Look at Sax. He's like, we can do this for the whole taping.

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278.716 - 291.114 Jason

That's amazing. Sax is ready for another round. We turned 10 into 25. All right. So are we going to have a separate all in balance? We just keep rolling it every week. Yeah, can you come back next week? This is even rolling.

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291.275 - 293.263 Nick

We just keep rolling every week.

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294.306 - 320.144 David

might have to there's i cannot believe we've just blackjacked that is unbelievable well tim have a good day all right tim you are a legend everybody follow tim on instagram let's get him to 10 million let's get i mean you have a future in broadcasting you are going to make millions you you went from the farmhouse oh yeah literally and here we go now you're going to be running a casino

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320.504 - 329.633 David

I think you should have Tim's blackjack. You should have your own brand. We could build a whole brand on this. Tim.Nacki on Insta. T-I-M dot N-A-K-I.

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329.693 - 336.02 Nick

I wouldn't have to run anything if I could just play one hand of blackjack with you guys and I'd land jack ace every week. That is unbelievable.

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336.04 - 357.094 David

Yeah. And like we said, that 15K we won. That's yours for you and the missus. Go on vacation. No, no, no, no. We said it. We said it. We want you to do something. Go with it. We're already cashed up. You take that 15K. You take the missus out. You get some first class tickets. You meet them up in Italy. And then let's go. That's it. Come to the summit.

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357.114 - 361.235 Nick

How about I go first class to the Orland Summit? Now there's a guy.

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361.255 - 363.876 David

We could play some. Oh, we could have a whole session.

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364.296 - 367.637 Tim

We may or may not have a fun casino night there. So this will be fun.

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367.657 - 379.68 David

Yeah, you got to come to Orland Summit for sure. Yeah, get the misses. Take the 15K. Two first class tickets. Get yourself set up in a nice hotel and we will see you there. All right, everybody. Let's get to the docket. Well done. Tim.

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379.82 - 383.03 Tim

Thank you. Tim, see you later. I appreciate it, guys. That was awesome.

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383.05 - 383.391 Chamath Palihapitiya

That was unreal.

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384.091 - 391.873 Tim

I can't believe they have live dealers standing in a warehouse in front of a webcam. I don't... That is such a... Like, imagine walking into that facility.

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392.673 - 398.075 Freeberg

You're surprised that that facility only has, what, dealers? That's like... I think there's a lot of webcams there.

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398.135 - 406.177 Tim

I think you can choose at the door what you want to do. Deal blockchain! Or whatever else you want to... Whatever else you want to be on a webcam for.

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406.197 - 408.818 Jason

The dealer's probably making a porno in the next room.

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410.559 - 415.384 Chamath

Above the table and below the table. There's two different tapings occurring.

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415.665 - 421.571 Tim Naki

Oh, my God. It's rough.

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421.852 - 425.436 Tim

It's rough, folks. So what happened? You DM'd him? That was so good.

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425.496 - 446.838 David

Yeah, you know what happened was somebody emailed me and they're like, hey, that's my mate that you talked about. He's a big fan of the show. It turns out, you know, this is the thing about influencers now. This is the thing about this micro-celebrity stuff. We all know each other by default, right? Yeah. So he was just slid into the DMs. There's definitely camaraderie. Yeah, that was awesome.

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446.878 - 464.27 David

That's awesome. I'm so glad he won. And, you know, he basically got smashed in his DMs, like a thousand people DMed him. Oh, you're on all in. They're bugging out to you on all in. And so, yeah, I just said, hey, would you do a hand? Would you do your live hand with us? And then I didn't I didn't I wanted to clear with you guys before I put our money on it or whatever.

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464.351 - 466.192 David

But I couldn't do that because I wanted to surprise you.

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466.592 - 470.795 Tim

Yeah, here we are. I did not think that was real when he popped up. I thought it was like a reporter thing.

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471.035 - 483.231 Freeberg

Yeah. All I could think of was, do I look like an ass by saying more? So that I just stay quiet. So more than 10K. I was like, well, you know, start with 50K. Let's just see what happens.

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483.451 - 494.457 Jason

I know. You ever feel like when you like tiptoe into the bet with like a small amount, but you want to do more and then you win and you feel like you actually lost money because if you had made a bigger bet, you would have made more.

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494.497 - 500.281 Freeberg

I feel like I lost 60K. I should have put 50. I would have put 50. I would have won 75.

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500.381 - 501.462 Jason

Instead, we put 10. We won 15. I lost 60.

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501.662 - 501.722 Freeberg

Wow.

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507.298 - 508.92 Jason

We made a Jake Nelson's back. Yeah.

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509 - 509.56 Freeberg

Yeah.

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512.903 - 514.805

Anything going on in your life?

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514.905 - 516.206

Anybody, uh,

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532.95 - 540.657 David

been busy having some adventure, Sax. Seems like you were busy last week. Anything to report from your side of the world?

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540.957 - 559.454 Jason

Well, should we take you guys behind the scenes of a presidential fundraiser? I admit I've never done one before, so it was a new experience for me. When you host a president, it's just a whole different level of preparation. The Secret Service was out like a week before, the President has an amazing advanced team. They work out every detail. They make a map of your house.

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559.474 - 567.06 Jason

They really have to think through everything. The police shut down the street. It's really a very involved process.

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567.481 - 580.012 Tim

By the way, I went to dinner in the city that night. And, you know, I was right by your house. So I drove up the street and they had everything blocked off on like three blocks on both streets, like on both sides of your house.

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580.967 - 599.044 Tim

But there were all these protesters like all throughout San Francisco, like pro-Trump people had driven in from all over NorCal must have been because these were not San Francisco neighbors. Supporters, yeah. And they came in with these like cars and the streets were blocked. It was a total zoo in the city for hours before and after your event.

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599.064 - 606.993 Tim

I actually stayed in the city that night and I heard the people going nuts for hours afterwards. but it definitely like took over. It took over the city.

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607.233 - 621.537 Jason

Yeah. So what's really interesting is that all week, the San Francisco publications had been trying to gin up protesters by writing about that, you know, the president's coming to town and the protesters are going to show up. And in fact, there was almost no anti-Trump protesters.

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621.717 - 633.36 Jason

And then a huge number of pro-Trump demonstrators came out and they were waving flags and cheering along his motorcade as he was coming to the house. So the whole protest thing backfired. Why do you think

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635.416 - 638.759 Tim

Anti-Trump protesters did not show up. What happened?

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639.399 - 649.627 Jason

I think there's just a big enthusiasm gap. I mean, I think that the pro-Trump people are very enthusiastic and the, let's call pro-Biden or anti-Trump people are just not very motivated right now.

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650.388 - 656.613 David

So it's exhausting to be against Trump for eight years. Like, this has been exhausting. I think they've exhausted folks.

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658.162 - 685.525 Jason

so anyway so owen mccabe who's the founder of intercom he was there and i i think this was actually a good summary because he said that he spoke with a bunch of people and none of them identifies republican all voted or donated democrat in the past that's true for me too now they're backing this guy for his policies on war immigration crypto and more this election is referendum on those issues so owen you know came out appreciate his support but it's true the campaign told us that they had more

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686.125 - 704.537 Jason

first time donors at this event than they've seen before. And that's because a lot of these people hadn't supported Republicans or hadn't supported Trump, and they came out. So we have a few photos and videos here to take you behind the scenes. I think that might be interesting for people. So the first thing to say is that President Trump is extremely charming.

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704.757 - 730.496 Jason

He connects with people in like five seconds. I mean, he meets you and finds something interesting or funny to say. And he's hilarious. I mean, when he spoke, in the living room and he talked extemporaneously for an hour. He's speaking off the cuff. Every speech he gives is different. This is him coming into the living room. He had made just a few notes about topics he wanted to talk about.

0
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731.517 - 740.562 Jason

on a piece of paper, but that was it. It was all completely extemporaneous. No teleprompter, obviously. And he's hilarious. I mean, people don't realize how entertaining he is.

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741.143 - 755.671 David

What were some of the greatest hits? What did he hit on? Did he hit on low pressure from showers? Did he... Because I know he's got like some things he hits on that are relatable. Was it all like... specific crypto topics, tech topics?

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755.711 - 777.62 Jason

Or did he go off and... Well, he did talk crypto. And it was really interesting. At one point in his speech, he called on the Winklevoss brothers who were there. And I'm only mentioning this because it was already reported that they were there. So I don't want to speak out of school. But he said to them, he says, I know you guys created Facebook. He was giving them credit for creating Facebook.

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778.281 - 779.584 David Sacks

I know you actually created it.

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779.604 - 784.759 Jason

Yeah, but he said, but it's okay. I mean, you guys look like models. You were dealt a lot of cards, you know, a lot of cards.

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787.133 - 790.894 David

I mean, they're very good looking. Huge IQ. And I mean, look at him.

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790.934 - 810.621 Jason

Great hair. And so I thought, okay, wow, like he must know the Winkvoss brothers. He must have met them previously. And I found out this is the first time that he had ever met them. So think about the awareness that he has to know that they're in the audience, to see them, point them out, and then have this kind of hilarious routine with them. So he's someone who's very sharp, very on the ball.

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811.704 - 836.371 Jason

very funny. And then his energy level is incredible. So he had started his day at Mar-a-Lago at 3.30 a.m. Pacific time, 6.30 a.m. his time. Then he flew to Arizona, did a Trump rally in Arizona. Then he flew to San Francisco for our event. He spent four hours at our event. He could have left an hour earlier if he wanted to. Then he flew to LA for more events the next day there.

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836.591 - 841.453 Jason

So think about his day and his energy level was just amazing the whole time.

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841.693 - 844.234 David

Chamath, your thoughts before this goes on for an hour?

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845.254 - 882.541 Freeberg

Yeah, I'll give you two observations. The first is that I think that there is a huge gap between how the media tries to portray Donald Trump and what he's like when you meet him in person. And that gap is really wide. And so I would say specifically to Democrats and independents, you really do need to sit in the room and feel what it's like. David is right. He is charismatic.

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882.861 - 905.964 Freeberg

He's intellectually sharp, and he's funny. And when you put that together, he can engage an audience for a long time and be totally extemporaneous. The other thing I would say is that he is very polite and he's kind in a way that was disarming and was not what I expected. And so I felt that I had misjudged him many years in the past.

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906.464 - 936.884 Freeberg

And so I was very glad that I had an opportunity to sit beside him and to actually interact with him one-on-one. It was really, really engaging. And so that's more about the style. And then about the substance, what I would say is, It was not just a pro-America agenda, but it's very clear that he was pro-innovation. So he was really supportive of AI in the details that he talked about.

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937.084 - 967.279 Freeberg

He was very supportive of crypto in those details. And he's very much low regulation, low taxation. And so when you put that together, it does stand very much in contrast with what the alternative is. And so I think that both of those things are a reason why, even if you aren't willing to vote for him, I would encourage everybody to experience what it's like to hear him.

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969.34 - 971.841 David

Freeberg, your thoughts on all this?

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971.861 - 973.482 Tim

I didn't go to this. I didn't go to the event. I don't know.

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973.542 - 976.323 David

No, I know. Just big picture. I want to know why Chamath didn't wear a tie.

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979.104 - 987.727 Jason

Who else is wearing a tie? You don't want the tie? Jamal doesn't need a tie. He's a baller. Do you want to say what Trump said to you when he met Natalie?

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988.007 - 1005.133 Freeberg

So it's us talking and he says, you guys are a really beautiful couple. Uh-oh. And I said, well, thank you. And then he turns to me and he goes, well, you must be really rich. And I started laughing out loud.

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1005.713 - 1011.959 David

Nat thought he was hilarious. Oh, because of the disparity in the looks between you and Nat is what he was sort of implying.

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1012.179 - 1013.3 Tim

You guys sat next to him at dinner.

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1013.781 - 1014.141 Chamath Palihapitiya

Yeah.

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1014.622 - 1019.686 Tim

And was that like an hour just private conversation between the three of you? This is the other thing that he does.

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1019.827 - 1035.295 Freeberg

He actually sits there and he says, you know, folks, I'm happy to continue to talk about whatever you want me to. You feel free to ask me questions. Or... Feel free to just go around the room and just tell me what you think. And what would happen is people would say different things. And then he would start asking questions of other people.

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1035.395 - 1043.88 Freeberg

And the thing becomes almost like this roundtable discussion of topics from we talked about Iran. We talked about foreign policy. We talked about deficit.

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1044.14 - 1047.842 Jason

Crypto regulation, everything. What did he say about deficit and debt?

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1051.857 - 1061.484 Freeberg

Well, he's very much on your side of we have to really figure out how to get spending in order and get the deficit under control.

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1061.755 - 1064.616 Tim

Well, congrats on a sounds like a successful event for you guys.

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1064.656 - 1086.526 David

It sounds like you guys are in the halls of power now, and Trump has flipped his positions on EVs, abortion, and taking away a woman's right to choose. He's flipped his position on TikTok and flipped his position on crypto. I give him a ton of credit. Four flips in a month, and he just sweeps all those votes. It's pretty smart. And for the Democrats who are listening,

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1087.266 - 1098.455 David

You're losers, and you're not listening to people. So you're going to lose the election, and Biden's going to get demolished. Nobody wants to vote for somebody who they think is incognito. That's your bet right now, Jacob.

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1098.475 - 1101.018 Tim

Jacob, you think Biden's getting demolished, right? That's your thought?

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1101.258 - 1113.167 David

I mean, did you see the video that came out this week where he was at some event, and it looked like a Mitch McConnell moment, right, where he was kind of frozen? He was like stuck. And so I don't want to make it like elder abuse, and I know...

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1114.028 - 1123.799 Freeberg

It's not elder abuse to be honest about what you're observing, especially when it comes to the most powerful role in America.

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1123.819 - 1125.581 David

Yeah, he's got to bow out.

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1125.821 - 1132.448 Tim

538 just put out their election forecast showing 51% chance of Biden winning, 48% chance of Trump winning as of two minutes ago.

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1136.592 - 1139.334 David

Who knows? I think it's all going to be determined by the debates.

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1139.654 - 1160.027 Jason

Sacks, you were going to say? Well, I just think what other job in America could Biden even be qualified for? What would you hire him to do? Is there any mental job you would hire him to do? Is there any physical job you would hire him to do? Would you hire him to be your babysitter? I mean, I don't think there's any job in America that anybody would hire him to do. Except for maybe president.

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1160.087 - 1172.294 Jason

It's kind of crazy. And this is where the Democratic Party is in shambles. We should have the highest standards for the mental acuity, sharpness, and energy level of our president. It's the most demanding job in the world.

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1172.314 - 1190.503 David

We need a cognitive test. But the Democrats need to just look deeply in the mirror and say, hey, you're fielding a candidate that nobody's going to vote for. That's the problem here. And there's not enough anti-Trump sentiment. And Trump's a genius at flipping his position to get huge swaths of voters. And so you're going to get demolished if you don't hot swap them.

0
💬 0

1190.843 - 1196.61 David

I guarantee you a hot swap is coming. I predicted the Trump TV flip, and I predict it now.

0
💬 0

1197.311 - 1216.62 Freeberg

I think you're right about maybe some of the issues where folks will get much more precise on these issues. But I actually think what's happening is that this is really going to be about Trump versus Kamala Harris. I don't think Biden is going to step down at all, but I do think there's a chance that non-trivial chance that Biden wins.

0
💬 0

1217.12 - 1232.913 Freeberg

And if he does, I don't think he's going to make it four years. And so then the real question is, do folks want Kamala? And have they had a chance to really figure out whether they want to vote for her or not? I think that's really where it's going to come down to. It's really Trump versus Kamala Harris.

0
💬 0

1233.193 - 1246.797 David

And if you frame it as that, Chamath, then it's even a bigger trouncing, right? Like if you put Biden, if you put Kamala against Trump, then what would the, it would be an even bigger shellacking, yeah? In your mind?

0
💬 0

1247.964 - 1273.798 Freeberg

I just think that without saying anything bad about Kamala, because I don't know much about her, is really what I would say is I don't know much about her. And so you can't have somebody who gets into that role accidentally. I think we have to give both President Trump and President Biden a lot of credit, which is they stood in the eye of the hurricane and withstood all the pressure and won.

0
💬 0

1275.211 - 1303.107 Freeberg

And he who wins that way deserves to be the president of the United States. She hasn't withstood that. And so I think that it's pretty unfair for a lot of voters if there is a bait and switch. And so I think that you have to look at both of these two candidates and assign a reasonable probability that both of them make it to the finish line.

0
💬 0

1303.747 - 1309.891 Freeberg

And from at least what I saw up close, I think it's a much higher probability that Donald Trump does than President Biden does.

0
💬 0

1310.051 - 1325.625 David

And listen, Biden hasn't made it to the finish line of his first term. It's obvious to everybody he's in cognitive decline. You put up a candidate who's in cognitive decline, you're going to lose. even against, you know, Trump, who people really don't like. These are the two most unpopular candidates of our lifetime.

0
💬 0

1325.845 - 1328.306 Jason

I'm not sure about that. I don't think it's true that people don't like Trump.

0
💬 0

1328.567 - 1345.155 David

I think that- Oh, he's got a core, but yeah, no, people, the Republicans, including yourself, were looking for a different candidate just months ago. You said Trump was not your preferred candidate and you were all in on DeSantis. So let's not pretend like he was your preferred candidate. He's the remaining candidate.

0
💬 0

1345.335 - 1352.258 Jason

So you're- Yeah, but I think it's wrong to say that There's not enthusiasm and love for Trump. We saw it on the streets. We saw it in that room.

0
💬 0

1352.558 - 1353.158 David

There's some, yeah.

0
💬 0

1353.258 - 1372.542 Jason

Do you see Logan Paul meeting with Trump four years ago? He was for Biden. Now he's for Trump. Have you ever seen Trump walk into a UFC event? They go nuts for him. I'm just saying there's a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of love out there for Trump, a lot of excitement. I don't see any of that for Biden. There are people who don't like Trump and that drives some support for Biden.

0
💬 0

1372.642 - 1376.683 Jason

But if you look at enthusiasm and excitement, it's all on the Trump side.

0
💬 0

1377.27 - 1401.057 David

In this, we are in total agreement. Yes, there is no enthusiasm to put somebody in cognitive decline in the White House. All right, listen, we gotta get to the docket. We could talk for hours about Biden, Biden, Biden, Trump, Trump, Trump, and we will. It's gonna be a continuing topic, but let's get to a very full docket here. Breaking news, last night, Tesla shareholders have backed their guy.

0
💬 0

1401.597 - 1427.283 David

Yes, there was two important votes, measures, that Tesla just had taken with their shareholders. The first was approving Elon's pay package, the $56 billion pay package that was voided by a Delaware judge. We talked about that on episode 164 back in February. And then moving Tesla's incorporation from Delaware to Texas. This is also major.

0
💬 0

1427.303 - 1449.315 David

Remember, we talked last week about the Texas Stock Exchange. Here's the two charts. massive overwhelming support. There were some notable people who dissented. I think Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund and CalPERS were two of the ones who were voting against it. Tesla share price popped 6% on the news. You don't want to lose Elon at Tesla. That would be really bad.

0
💬 0

1449.455 - 1457.281 David

So your thoughts, Chamath, on this vote and maybe the move and what that represents.

0
💬 0

1457.781 - 1491.813 Freeberg

It's kind of odd that we're in this crazy place. Same here. When that original package was unveiled, there was a lot of people, including me, who thought, there's no way he's going to hit this. It's just way too aggressive, and it requires so many things to go right. And so I think in part, that's why three quarters of the Tesla shareholders approved it then. 73% is not squeaking over the line.

0
💬 0

1491.873 - 1518.06 Freeberg

It's not 50% plus a vote. It's a super majority. And that excluded Kimball and Elon shares. Exactly. And then I think you have this very dangerous form of judicial activism, which essentially ignored the will of the shareholders to and tried to create some administrative ruling that threw up this big question mark.

0
💬 0

1518.501 - 1542.916 Freeberg

So then in typical Elon style, he's like, great, we're just going to get them to vote it again. And then yet again, it passes and it looks like it's going to pass by around 73%. But the problem now is that it's still not clear what happens. I think that there's still some question marks where this may not nullify the judge's decision. It may actually create more question marks.

0
💬 0

1543.956 - 1554.54 Freeberg

So hopefully this gets sorted out. He should get this stock. He never should have, or these options, he never should have had them taken away. And so I just hope this thing, it becomes a nothing burger.

0
💬 0

1555.54 - 1578.208 David

Saks, you have thoughts on this outcome? Is it surprising to you? Not surprising? And then I think the jurisdiction thing is bigger than maybe people are thinking because Delaware has been the standard for incorporating companies, but Elon is putting his companies in Nevada and Texas. We saw the stock exchange last week getting back to move to Texas.

0
💬 0

1578.228 - 1584.054 David

This does seem like there's something about jurisdiction in the water. What are your thoughts, Sax?

0
💬 0

1584.895 - 1608.774 Jason

Well, I think it's ironic that the winning margin, 73%, is the same margin by which shareholders approved his comp package back in 2018. So again, they got 73% voted for this 2018. Now they voted to re-approve it by the same margin. And the reason why they had to do it is because this activist judge in Delaware avoided it on the grounds that somehow the original shareholder vote wasn't valid.

0
💬 0

1609.574 - 1629.872 Jason

And I think this is interesting that the margin didn't change because it shows that shareholders aren't ingrates. Elon delivered what he promised, and now shareholders are ingrates. upholding their end of the bargain. And certainly they didn't have to take that position. There were different groups like CalSTRS who basically took the position, what have you done for me lately?

0
💬 0

1630.412 - 1648.822 Jason

Yeah, you delivered, but we don't have to pay you because of the judge, so we're not going to pay you. And I think shareholders wisely approved the package because I think there was some chance that if they reneged, that Elon could leave the company. And I still think he's absolutely vital to all the innovation that's gonna come in the future from Tesla.

0
💬 0

1648.842 - 1676.333 Jason

And you see this, the stock is ripping on the news. It's up about 3% today in a down market. So clearly the market thinks that securing Elon's future at the company was the right decision and shareholders did the right thing. In terms of the downstream effect on this, like you said, it raises the specter of Delaware being an activist state. That's not why anyone incorporates in Delaware.

0
💬 0

1676.393 - 1693.671 Jason

The reason why you incorporate in Delaware is because you think it makes you subject to an extremely predictable body of corporate law that's been tested and become bulletproof over many, many decades. And now all of a sudden, you have to worry that maybe a judge will set aside

0
💬 0

1694.747 - 1708.413 Jason

a shareholder vote for reasons that seem incredibly specious, especially in light of the fact that the shareholders just re-approved it. So obviously the shareholders didn't think they needed your protection and they voted to reverse you.

0
💬 0

1708.893 - 1731.762 Jason

And moreover, Tesla could still be subject to paying the legal fees of these trial lawyers who've asked for literally billions of dollars in legal fees that the judge still has to rule on. So imagine this, imagine that the shareholder vote gets set aside by the judge, it then gets re-approved by shareholders, but the trial lawyers who brought this nuisance suit can now get billions of dollars.

0
💬 0

1731.902 - 1738.324 Jason

If that happens, I mean, Delaware can kind of kiss its status as the premier corporate law state away.

0
💬 0

1739.004 - 1754.378 David

Freedberg, is this a John Galt moment? Is this where capitalism, socialism, and the state collide and people now start thinking, hmm, maybe we need to create a new jurisdiction, a new framework?

0
💬 0

1754.978 - 1777.214 Tim

That's a good question. I think it's a good example for capitalism. And I think it should shine the light on how other CEOs are getting compensated at public companies where there's typically a multi-million dollar or multi-deca-million dollar pay package that has no dependency on the performance of the business. You can make tens of millions of dollars a year and not drive shareholder value.

0
💬 0

1778.326 - 1800.596 Tim

And I think that the way that this deal was structured, where Elon effectively got 10% of the company for 10Xing the stock, should be an example that other boards should actively consider when considering both candidates and their appetite for this sort of a package and their compensation packages themselves.

0
💬 0

1801.076 - 1813.02 Tim

The way executive comp typically works at the board level at public companies is you hire these comp consultants. And the comp consultants come in and they use comparables. which basically means let's do what everyone else does.

0
💬 0

1813.66 - 1839.738 Tim

And so you have this self-reinforcing system of compensation and benefits for CEOs that bumps up a little bit every year that ultimately has some degree of ownership in the stock, but fundamentally has very little downside. And Elon had no guarantees in his pay package when he got this comp package originally in 2018. And he got 10% of the company if he 10X the stock, which is what he did.

0
💬 0

1840.678 - 1858.408 Tim

I really think that it is worth having this become the kind of beacon for all boards to consider. And it seems like shareholders in aggregate are applauding the concept. And look, Elon is a special guy and he gets special treatment. But I think that it moves the needle and should move the needle a little bit

0
💬 0

1859.068 - 1865.851 Tim

for other CEOs and other boards to stand up and say, we should think about something that looks a lot more like this than what we typically do.

0
💬 0

1866.331 - 1878.357 Tim

And I think you would find a very different cast of people showing up to become CEOs and to drive performance out of these businesses and a lot more risky and aggressive behavior than what I think you would typically see in big companies that are in maintenance mode.

0
💬 0

1878.877 - 1885.62 Freeberg

What do you guys think of the organizations that initially voted yes and now voted no.

0
💬 0

1885.78 - 1891.582 Tim

They basically are saying, look, I mean, if you think about it, you're a big public company. I don't know what ISS recommended. This is institutional shareholder services.

0
💬 0

1891.962 - 1893.563 Freeberg

They recommended no both times.

0
💬 0

1894.143 - 1914.113 Tim

Right, and so ISS basically is what a lot of big public fund managers will follow when they make their votes. And so if I'm a shareholder... That's not what I'm asking. No, no, I know what I'm saying. But let's say that I'm BlackRock or I'm a shareholder. I'm not going to put BlackRock. Some big shareholder, Tesla stock. Why would I vote to give away 10% of the company

0
💬 0

1914.966 - 1940.419 David

when i don't have to yeah very simple because he would leave uh morals and ethics matter and you want to do the right thing and you want to incentivize capitalism to operate properly and want to incentivize the people who take on the burden of running these companies and the people who voted against it i think people should just make a list of those individuals chamar and they should not do business with that because if somebody is going to double cross you

0
💬 0

1941.179 - 1946.323 David

They've shown you who they are. These are people who double cross them. They got the benefit. And then they stabbed him in the back.

0
💬 0

1946.763 - 1952.547 Jason

Make a list. That's exactly what they did. That's exactly what they did. It's worse if they voted yes the first time and then they voted no.

0
💬 0

1952.587 - 1953.768 Freeberg

No, I'm saying.

0
💬 0

1953.788 - 1960.312 Jason

Then maybe you're just against the deal. But if you're yes, no, then that's a renege.

0
💬 0

1960.552 - 1961.513 David

Then you're a true scumbag.

0
💬 0

1961.853 - 1979.602 Freeberg

You're a scumbag. Is that public anywhere who did that? Yeah, there are a bunch of folks that said that they, you know, I think it was CalPERS that voted yes. And then when they were on trying to explain, they were like, tap that dancing and like corporate jargon. But really what they are scumbags, Jason, you're right, they are morally and ethically void, and they're reneging.

0
💬 0

1980.202 - 1986.332 Freeberg

And this is the one rule in business you're not allowed to do. And the people that do that are these penny-pinching scumbags.

0
💬 0

1986.552 - 1993.155 David

I'm not saying a blacklist, but I would say making a list of people who maybe you want to consider not doing business with is how I would frame it.

0
💬 0

1993.535 - 1999.418 Jason

These are people who- They're public market investors, not private investors. They buy the stock on the open market, so they don't have to worry.

0
💬 0

1999.598 - 2004.121 Tim

I mean, I think the question is, what are the chances that Elon leaves the company if he didn't get the pay package?

0
💬 0

2004.261 - 2008.383 Jason

The chances are probably- I think that was a risk, and I think that made people think about it.

0
💬 0

2008.843 - 2030.069 Freeberg

Yeah, non-zero possibility. You made an agreement with somebody and you shook their hand. Why does he care whether he would have left or not left? You have to do the right thing. You have to do the right thing. You promised the guy X amount of money for doing Y amount of things. He did the Y things. And then you had a judge come over the top because of somebody who owned 10 shares.

0
💬 0

2030.59 - 2046.763 Freeberg

And all I'm saying is if you don't have the intellectual... intelligence to look past that and say, wait a minute, we just paid the guy to do this work. And now we're going to renege. They're gaming the system. I just think that like, how can anyone who is capable of doing a job sign up for a pay package?

0
💬 0

2047.343 - 2063.274 Freeberg

How could anyone and the people that will sign up are these like middling corpo people who will accomplish nothing and will run these companies in ways that then speaks to organizations that have just proven themselves to be totally unreliable.

0
💬 0

2064.134 - 2078.254 Tim

The irony of the thing is that these folks thought that they were getting a 10% free roll when they voted no. And the reality is that by him getting the pay package, the certainty of him sticking around at the company caused the stock to go up by 10%.

0
💬 0

2079.568 - 2088.994 Tim

So they actually had the calculus wrong that if they had gotten their way, the stock would have declined by more than the 10% free roll they thought they were getting. This is, I think, the main point.

0
💬 0

2089.215 - 2105.786 David

And 10% being the ownership of the company that he gets. Yeah. The pay package was laughed at on CNBC by all the experts. There is no way for him to hit this stuff. If he does hit it, he's getting a fraction of the value of it. And this is why stock is such a valuable device. If employees get stock,

0
💬 0

2106.266 - 2123.635 David

and the CEO gets stock and everybody in between and retail investors get it and endowments get it and your retirement account gets it, everybody rose in the right direction. Is it perfect? No, people can buy back their stock. They can do a little gaming on the margins, but it is the most pure system we have. Everybody has a share of the company.

0
💬 0

2124.116 - 2146.143 David

So if you're a socialist, you should actually kind of appreciate how stock works that everybody has a chance to buy it, everybody has a chance to participate. This is the model we should be using for all CEOs, they should all get a massive package. If the stock goes up into the right. It's so obvious. And this was so unfair. Let's see this flipper. I want to see their explanation.

0
💬 0

2147.484 - 2150.104 David Sacks

compensation is commensurate with the performance of the company.

0
💬 0

2150.124 - 2151.205

Did you vote for it in 2018?

0
💬 0

2153.359 - 2157.383 David Sacks

I believe we did vote for it in 2018. But this is about long-term value creation.

0
💬 0

2157.403 - 2159.545

Hold on, hold on. But do you believe you were duped in 2018?

0
💬 0

2160.946 - 2164.329 David Sacks

No. I believe we used the information we had available and made the best choice.

0
💬 0

2164.73 - 2184.108

Okay, so here's what I find so interesting about this particular choice. 73%, I believe, of the shareholders voted in favor of it in 2018. A judge has said that shareholders were not informed properly. If you talk to most shareholders, by the way, especially big shareholders, they say, we understood completely what we were doing, and we were on board with this.

0
💬 0

2184.909 - 2208.136

Now that this almost opportunity has arrived on your doorstep to actually rethink this, if you will, there's a view that, oh, maybe we're not getting the value we thought we should. You thought you should get it, but he's worked, by the way, under the assumption that he was hitting the numbers and dealing with the contract.

0
💬 0

2209.797 - 2218.465

If I told you that you were being paid a certain amount of money in 2018, and then I called you and said, actually, you know what, we're not going to give you that money anymore, what would you do?

0
💬 0

2218.485 - 2224.57 David Sacks

That's a great question. I would go to my board. I would talk with my board.

0
💬 0

2226.472 - 2230.855 David

This woman is so smug. What is her name? Karen Frost? I don't think she's smug.

0
💬 0

2230.995 - 2252.056 Freeberg

Sorry, Marshy Frost. Oh, sorry. I thought it was Karen Frost. I think like this is emblematic of the kind of person who is incapable of actually doing the right thing. And there's a lot of these people that run a lot of these organizations that I mean, What kind of an answer is that? I mean, it was a non-answer. That's why I said it was smug. Let me just ask each of you.

0
💬 0

2252.756 - 2259.999 Freeberg

You've all started companies. Some of you are still running companies. Would you take money from her and CalPERS after that statement? Hard no for me.

0
💬 0

2260.68 - 2264.482 Jason

But remember, she's not investing in private companies. She's buying stock on the open market.

0
💬 0

2265.162 - 2270.464 Freeberg

No, no, no. CalPERS announced that they're an LP and they're starting to do directs.

0
💬 0

2271.105 - 2271.825 Jason

Oh, okay. I didn't know that.

0
💬 0

2272.247 - 2275.17 David

Yeah, they're trying to catch up. They've been behind on venture.

0
💬 0

2275.31 - 2290.687 Jason

Let's call this whole thing what it is. It was a heist. You had these trial lawyers. They find a name plaintiff who's got nine shares. And on a contingency fee basis, they go after Elon's pay package. What are they looking for? $5.6 billion.

0
💬 0

2293.129 - 2295.572 David

How does a lawyer make $5 billion? How is that possible?

0
💬 0

2295.612 - 2315.452 Jason

That's what motivated this whole thing. They don't care about Tesla. They don't care about the company. They don't care about shareholders. They're looking for a giant multi-billion dollar contingency fee payment. And they took their shot. And they found a Delaware judge to basically agree with them even though shareholders approved it. And then shareholders re-approved it.

0
💬 0

2315.853 - 2327.462 Jason

So my question is, how much are these trial lawyers gonna get? Is a judge gonna award them billions of dollars for what was clearly now a mistake to avoid a pay package that shareholders wanted to stick with?

0
💬 0

2328.443 - 2346.207 Jason

If they award these lawyers billions of dollars, which is what they're seeking, no one's gonna wanna do business in Delaware anymore because it subjects you to these stick-up heists by trial lawyers. So I think that's going to be the next big shooter drop is what do these trial lawyers get awarded?

0
💬 0

2346.267 - 2349.451 Freeberg

Well, what are they going to get paid? Because they also wanted to get paid in Tesla shares.

0
💬 0

2350.693 - 2357.761 Jason

No, I'm serious. Here's an idea. Buy the shares yourself. Yeah, they said, we don't like your management of the company, but we want to be paid in your shares.

0
💬 0

2359.09 - 2364.714 Chamath

Yeah, by the way, they got their shares and then they voted to give Elon the next pay package. So it's just a full on grift.

0
💬 0

2365.534 - 2371.639 Jason

They secured the bag. But Delaware is supposed to protect corporations against this grift. That's why people incorporate there.

0
💬 0

2371.699 - 2392.351 David

When people ask, why does Delaware have this special place that everybody decided Delaware would incorporate? It was because it was predictable. Lawyers felt this was the most predictable jurisdiction that would be the most shareholder-friendly, most shareholder-thoughtful, whatever word you want to use. They would defend the shareholders, and here we are.

0
💬 0

2392.711 - 2402.696 Freeberg

The last company I started, 8090, we incorporated in Nevada, and I just re-domiciled a couple of other companies that I own into Nevada as well.

0
💬 0

2403.316 - 2423.75 David

It's becoming a trend. We're having very big discussions about this in the startup community of where to domicile your company, and more to come on this one. Okay, let's keep moving. Apple had a huge announcement this week, Apple has entered the chat, they announced Apple intelligence, get it AI. And they have included a chat GPT integration from open AI.

0
💬 0

2425.526 - 2449.014 David

This was really, I think, impressive in many ways because people thought Apple was far behind. It was a banger of a demo. A lot of un-Apple-like future-looking demos. So none of these demos that we're going to show are coming to your phone this week. They were really, I think, playing catch-up with Microsoft, and it worked. Stock is up 10%. They added about 300 billion in market cap.

0
💬 0

2449.054 - 2476.331 David

Now the top three market cap companies are all driven specifically by the perception that AI is going to be the next technological wave. Microsoft, Apple, and Nvidia all cruising around about $3.2 trillion. And this top three keeps flipping back and forth. Apple had past Microsoft and Market Cap. Here's the features. I'll just give you a quick overview of what we're seeing.

0
💬 0

2476.852 - 2493.738 David

It's added Grammarly-like features. Great product, Grammarly. I'm not an investor, but they added the ability to proof, get grammar help. AI will transcribe and summarize phone calls with permission, obviously double opt-in. It will prioritize notifications and iMessage and email that are super important. You can do smart replies.

0
💬 0

2493.758 - 2514.484 David

A company where an investor in Superhuman already does this kind of stuff. And they're bringing AI to Siri. And this is going to be the big win in my mind. You're going to be able to say things like you want to order something in DoorDash or Uber Eats or Instacart. And the AI Siri will be able to dip down into apps.

0
💬 0

2514.504 - 2534.835 David

They're building a whole app AI interface, much like the Rabbit device CEO talked about doing. And I think this means that Apple is going to win the AI consumer. There is a deal with ChatGPT that I'll get your feedback on, gentlemen, in a moment. According to sources, Apple is not paying OpenAI. It's a non-exclusive deal. ChatGPT can be swapped out.

0
💬 0

2535.255 - 2554.948 David

Apple is also talking to Google about a similar deal. Obviously, it doesn't take a genius to predict that Apple is going to auction off the LLM integration, I think, to the highest bidder. They did that with the search deal. Google pays Apple $20 billion to be the default search engine. That's about 5% of Apple's annual revenue, if you didn't know. And it's all profit, right?

0
💬 0

2555.008 - 2563.592 David

So this is a huge profit moment. I'm going to pause there for a second before I get into more of this and just get your general reaction, Chamath.

0
💬 0

2564.833 - 2594.262 Freeberg

I think you nailed it right at the beginning. The thing that I was struck by the most in this is we went from a phase where in the Steve Jobs era, These events were because you were about to unveil a product that was done and shipping as of that day. And then at some point we transitioned to they are talking about products that they intend to release within a year.

0
💬 0

2595.638 - 2613.446 Freeberg

Now we've shifted to the part where they're talking about software integrations from a third party that will happen in a year. So if you just look at it sequentially, it's a little disappointing in that sense, because for a company this big, it's really not much of anything. You can't really touch it and feel it.

0
💬 0

2614.707 - 2638.632 Freeberg

And it's going to take a year before we really know what the totality of all of this is. Meanwhile, The economics of the chat GPT deal were leaked, and there's no money on either side. So, I don't know, it's a little bit of like, it's really not much of anything, to be honest, because there's nothing we can actually play with and experience.

0
💬 0

2639.133 - 2660.173 David

Freebird, your thoughts on the vision here, at least? And to Chamath's point, Apple used to release dope stuff. fully baked, ready to go. And now we are increasingly see them talking about what's coming next year or at some point. Do you think Apple's going to win the consumer? Do you think Apple's falling behind? Should they have built their own LLM by this point?

0
💬 0

2660.646 - 2679.718 Tim

I'm not sure I think what they have shown is more of a glimpse into the future of hardware, where for the last two decades or so, hardware has mostly been a portal to access the internet and use the internet through apps or through the browser. And hardware has done a good job of enabling that.

0
💬 0

2680.098 - 2699.465 Tim

But I think we're now going to see a much more tighter coupling, where the hardware becomes more valuable, and it's less of this kind of funnel for apps to flow through and data to flow through, but the hardware actually becomes the value creator. And you see a much more tighter integration in the hardware OS and the AI or the software that enables you to do lots of things.

0
💬 0

2699.485 - 2715.049 Tim

You're no longer just gonna use the hardware to access an app to do something. So a lot of the companies that are app developers are likely gonna end up becoming services developers that enable that hardware AI to do something for you. And this coupling between hardware and software, because of the way AI works,

0
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2715.709 - 2735.719 Tim

is I think becoming more apparent, not just in consumer devices, but we see it in the data center and in the enterprise stack as well. You know, we've seen that obviously there's this tight integration between the chip and the software stack that Grok built. There's a tight integration between Google's TPU stack and then the ML instances and the tools that you can use in Google Cloud.

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2736.579 - 2753.877 Tim

that are optimized for use on that TPU hardware. Nvidia's got a big effort, obviously, in continuing to build out their software stack that sits on top of their hardware and works in a more coupled way. And then Google has this ability to kind of realize, I think, a similar outcome with Pixel phones, which is a pretty sizable opportunity for them.

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2753.897 - 2774.264 Tim

And then all of the hardware manufacturers can probably grab more value now as they build their own AI into their OS. And you start to see more of this value realized by the hardware companies. So I think that there's this really interesting shift where we've all thought about hardware as being this like commodity where there's some degree of like improvement or innovation made over time.

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2774.685 - 2787.034 Tim

But now it seems like a lot of value might actually get captured by hardware companies in all points in the value stack. So it's an interesting moment. And I think that this just shines a light on that trend that I think is going to play out over the next couple of years.

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2787.515 - 2811.292 David

It's clear sacks that right now, to enable these features, you're going to have to have a pretty solid device They announced here at the keynote at WWDC that you need to have an M1 chip or better, iPhone 15 or better. So, and having all this local data is a huge advantage for Apple. They've got your messages, your phone, your calendar, your photos.

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2812.293 - 2828.517 David

your app behavior, the data inside of your wallet, all of this gives them a huge, huge advantage. So I guess the question is, do you think this renews the Apple franchise and people start upgrading their phones again to get all these new features, David Sachs?

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2829.258 - 2849.287 Jason

Well, the market definitely thinks so because Apple was up big on this news. And even if it was largely vaporware at this point, the market definitely liked where they were going. And frankly, Apple did exactly what I said they should do last week, which was to reinvent Siri as an LLM with the capability to reach into apps as an agent and take actions on the user's behalf.

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2849.648 - 2867.115 Jason

That's what they effectively announced. However, Apple took a shortcut to get here. They partnered with OpenAI, and this is something that I don't think they've ever really done before at the operating system level. Apple is famous for being vertically integrated, for being a walled garden, for being end-to-end.

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2867.135 - 2886.281 Jason

They control everything from the chips to the hardware to the operating system, and they don't let anybody else in until you're at the App Store layer. This is allowing somebody in beneath the level of the App Store. This is allowing someone... Open AI to get access to your data and to control your apps at the operating system level.

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2886.962 - 2908.868 Jason

And I think Elon pointed out, wait a second, what are the privacy implications here? And I think there are major privacy implications. There's simply no way that you're going to allow an AI on your phone to take all these actions on your behalf without giving that model substantial amounts of user data. And that is a huge change for Apple. Remember, Apple in the past

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2909.781 - 2924.153 Jason

has been the advocate for consumer privacy. There's a whole issue of the San Bernardino terrorist, where the FBI went to Apple and said, we want you to give us backdoor access to their phone, and Apple refused to do it and went to court to defend user privacy.

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2924.873 - 2943.116 Jason

And furthermore, one of Apple's defenses to the arguments, the antitrust arguments for allowing sideloading and allowing other apps to get access to parts of the operating system, as they've always said, we can't do this because it would jeopardize user privacy and user security. Well, here they are opening themselves up

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2944.062 - 2956.867 Jason

to open AI in a very deep and fundamental way in order to accelerate the development of these features. In other words, they took the shortcut. They could have developed the LLM themselves. They could have developed the AI themselves, but they chose not to do that.

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2956.987 - 2968.071 Jason

And I think this is going to open Pandora's box for Apple because, again, they've proven that they can open up the operating system to a third party now. And who knows what the privacy implications of this are going to be.

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2968.351 - 2990.801 David

It turns out Apple has addressed this head on. They hear the concerns and much like when you share a photo or you share your location, it's going to ask you over and over again, do you want to let this app do this? So they're aware that this is an issue. They brought up privacy every single time, but people don't trust open AI and they do trust Apple. So this is strange bedfellows to be sure.

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2990.821 - 2991.441 David

Chamath, your thoughts.

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2992.625 - 3008.309 Freeberg

I think that Apple really cares about privacy when they're trying to hurt a company they don't like, i.e. Meta. And they're willing to figure out a way to work around it when it's a company that they clearly support, OpenAI.

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3008.869 - 3031.714 David

Yeah. Well, when you're behind, you know, you behave differently than when you're ahead and you have your monopoly. Freeberg, you wanted to add anything here before we move on to the next story? Okay. In related news, OpenAI... has hit a run rate, and this is kind of stunning, of $3.4 billion. That means they've roughly doubled their monthly revenue in the past six months or so.

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3032.454 - 3051.679 David

These are not official numbers. OpenAI is denying them. But here's a chart that somebody put together based on all the different leaks and approximations of what OpenAI is making. The reason this makes no sense, this chart, and it shows a year, and then it shows a month, a month, a month, a month, is because there's been different leaks at different points in time.

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3052.139 - 3065.242 David

But just to normalize this, in 2022, for all of 2022, before... They really had a lot of customers, 28 million, and now on a $3.4 billion run rate. Again, it's a pretty stunning number if it's true.

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3065.322 - 3070.464 Freeberg

You can do apples to apples here because 2023 Jan is 200 million. That means that June is 300 million if they're on a $3.6 billion run rate. Yeah.

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3075.425 - 3093.217 David

And so if we were to even look at the number of people who work there, 770, if you put that at 500,000 a person, some engineers getting a couple of million, some people maybe getting less, they're probably only got a half billion dollars in salaries a year. Who knows what they're spending on the infrastructure for this?

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3094.474 - 3115.088 David

If you were to do evaluation on this, everybody knows they sold a bunch of shares in secondary at around 80 billion, which means they're trading at, if these numbers are true, 25 times for revenue, which is close to what Nvidia is trading at right now. Obviously, they're two very different businesses. So your thoughts on this as a SaaS company?

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