Karen Kilgariff
Appearances
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
This is exactly right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
A little bit sometimes depends. We still have that P.O. box, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's pretty great. You guys have been very generous over the years. But if you haven't been generous, you still have a chance. The P.O. Box is My Favorite Murder, Inc. at P.O. Box 39585. LACA 90039.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's fine. Don't worry. It's about something else. It's cute. Don't worry about it. You're like, as if that would be the creepiest thing that's ever happened at a P.O. box. Come on. Grow up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And it also just lets people know that you can have a little wider perspective when you're feeling insecure, when you're feeling like you have self-doubt, that like you have to think about what's gone on in the world for the last couple of thousands of years and how dumb a lot of people have been. And they weren't insecure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So like you can fucking do it too. Get out there with your talent and your brains, please.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Everyone's doing an incredible job. It's very important to have other people help you keep perspective. You can't do it for yourself all the time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Might as well.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, and it's that kind of thing where like when you thought of the idea of people sending in their hometowns, the idea is there's so many people that have like these kinds of connections. It didn't happen to you. It didn't happen in your family, but it happened in a way that affected you. It's like Michelle McNamara in I'll Be Gone in the Dark, where it's like these things happen around us.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And it affects us. And watching how it affects other people affects us. And if you're an empathetic human being, you know, the fact that these senseless murders happen, there is a ripple effect. And that ripple effect matters. And people, there is the tragedy and there's the part that shuts people down entirely. And then there's the part where then people die.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
become detectives, they become forensic scientists, they become victims advocates. Like, you know, the ripple effect isn't sometimes can actually end up doing good, which is a pretty cool thing that I think as this podcast progressed, we started to get a handle on where it went less from the salacious kind of, oh, Ted Bundy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And I mean, there's no better proof of that than web sleuths, people that are online actually doing that work.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
that could actually get cold cases solved like that's real and that is has nothing to do with like the the media aspect of it it's like the people going and trying to help get the job done like the dough network yeah all of that it's incredible it's incredible all right well let's listen to karen's hometown story the murder of poly class
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Distinctive. What if it was like 70s newscast kind of like... That'd be good, right? This just ends...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Check out at shopify.com slash murder, all lowercase, and learn how to create the best retail experiences without complexity. That's shopify.com slash murder. Goodbye. Who's going first this week? I think it's you. Skipper times, come back to us, Skippers. Oh. If it's mine this week, if I go first, I've been, this past week has been quite crazed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, no, no, I can go. But I just want, I just need a little ramp up of, I had plans and schemes about what I was going to do and then realized I needed to do more work uh, like really dig in and do some serious research.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Cause that's the thing is sometimes you go to talk about, so I want to do Ted Bundy because I'm, uh, three quarters of the way through that and rule book, the stranger beside me, which is amazing. There's other people on the Facebook page reading it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Um, so I love that, that we're reading it at the same time, but I, when I do it, it should be comprehensive and not, you know, half ass cause he is, he's pretty much one of the most famous serial killers of our time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'll say what I'm passionate about about Ted Bundy. But no, when I do it, it's going to be a three-hour presentation. Okay. I'll just take a nap. Okay. Just read the book on the podcast. Yes, exactly. In kind of a slow, low voice where people are just like, all right, I was trying to get through my workday, but whatever you feel like doing is fine. Yeah, this podcast has changed. It's a bummer.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I lean back on the couch like a kind of like an old drunk hobo leans on a park bench. Right, Steven? Steven had to put his hand over his mouth. It was that accurate. Because it's so true. He's like, I'm seeing, it's as if my hat is tipped forward. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, so I figured I would go back to my roots. And I'm going to do my hometown murder, which is the most famous murder from my hometown, which is the Pauly Class murder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And the other reason I'm telling this is because not only was it a firsthand experience, I didn't live in my hometown when she was kidnapped. Um, but I lived in San Francisco and I would go home for holidays and I was back and forth all the time. Um, but Polly Klaus's mother is a woman named Eve and Eve was my boss at the last job I had when I lived in Petaluma, which was at...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
The natural fiber children's clothing. Oh my God. Dun, dun, dun. It comes back around. So I actually didn't mean to make that reference, but then I was doing it. I was like, oh, I'm probably doing this on purpose subconsciously. But it was very strange because it's, there's a lot of, a lot of the times we look and we research these stories and,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And it's these places that are like, you know, when we when we talk about like the police messing up an investigation or things, you know, things getting screwed up or whatever. A lot of times it's because it's towns that have never had a crime to that degree, a murder or kidnapping or something where people don't have the experience.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And most of their career as a cop is pulling people over, you know, giving people like DUIs and stuff.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. And people and all police stations are and cops are more connected because of the Internet. Yeah. So that's like that whole East Area Rapist, the Golden State Killer thing where there were, you know, there were police departments who were keeping information from each other because they were the ones that wanted the collar.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That's it's like all of that in the way that, you know, that criminal science is kind of developing because of the Internet. So my hometown is Petaluma, California. And it is one of those towns where when I was growing up there, I think the population was somewhere around 32,000. So it was a small farm town, basically. So the main town itself, there was like the downtown area.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
The east side had like more of like the newer development tract homes and Um, kind of everyone on the East side had like a two story house. Um, but on my side, on the West side, that was out where all the dairy and chicken ranches were. So that's, I grew up five miles outside of town. And, uh, so we basically were, it was the country.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And so when we, like when I was growing up, we didn't have cable. Holy shit. We only had four channels. We only got four channels on our TV and we couldn't get pizza delivered to our house because we live too far out of town. And that was how a lot of kids I knew grew up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. It's it's weird. It's like, you know, we didn't have sidewalks. We didn't have we didn't have streetlights. Holy shit. So at night, I think now they do on the street that I grew up on. But like at the time, like there was when you drove at night out where I grew up, it was pitch black.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's so fun. When I go to my dad's house for like holidays, I get out of the car and I stand in his driveway and they'll be like, come on, crazy. It's stars from like horizon to horizon.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Because Georgia doesn't fuck around with full length anything. You're all about the leg. Yeah, that's true. I do show a lot of leg. Because it's, you know why? That's summer Georgia in full effect. Full effect. Thank you, whoever made that. I did a kind of rude thing. I posted the picture Summer Karen in full effect on my Twitter page.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We can never see stars here. Never. And people that live in like... Oh my God, if you live in like... kansas yeah like somewhere that's like kind of low population and and no light pollution totally Dang. Dang, dude. We used to lay out at nights in the summertime. Our next door neighbor, the Withingtons, had a pool.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And we would sometimes have like a slumber party where we'd all lay in sleeping bags next to their pool. And we would lay on their chaise lounges and look up and there would just be shooting stars all night long. That's all we did was go, there's one, there's one, there's one. It was awesome. That's amazing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So anyway, that's basically the feel of this town. This was the kind of town where, and I think I've told the story before in the show, but like in my town, um, it one time a guy on the street tried to purse snatch a lady's purse and And everyone on the sidewalk chased him up the street. Yes. It's that everyone knows each other. Everyone's from there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
People like stay there, grow up there, stay there, raise their kids there. There's generations and generations of like ranching people of all kinds of people. So it's cool. It's I feel now I feel lucky when I was growing up. I was like, get me out of here. I want to go to Manhattan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Um, so when this happened, it happened, it was a little house that was on the, uh, a little Walnut Park that was, I think it's Walnut Park. Um, a little park that's in the kind of city center. And it's really cute. My friend, Heidi Peterson's mom actually had a house. So it's basically a park in the center and then the, you know, four streets squaring around. So it wasn't rural.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, they lived downtown Petaluma. Wow. So they lived walking distance. Like the main part of downtown is like Petaluma Boulevard and Western. And that's where like the really old buildings, the old two and three story buildings are. They lived probably 10 blocks from that part of town. So, but still, and this was, this happened in 1993. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But even then, this was the kind of town where people did not lock their front door. Yeah. You just didn't. There was no reason to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It was I think that's also that that's that thing of like people as as we get older and this kind of like 2020 generation grows up. Yes. It's that thing of like now we just know what happens to other people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
as adults because we because we know the possibility right we didn't understand the possibility as much I think yeah but also in these small towns that it just didn't happen there so it wasn't like you're like well we should be careful anyway it'd be like don't be weird like there's no reason So on October 1st, 1993, Polly was having a slumber party with two of her friends.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And Eve was in the front of the house. Her mom was in the front of the house. And somebody came in their back door, walked into her bedroom. And the rumor is that he said, which one of you lives here? Now, I know a bunch of small town rumors about this case and they could completely be bullshit. But I'm basically just telling you this. Oh, I want to hear those.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And then after I did it went, I probably should have found out who made that. Oh, right. I didn't have the name.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
She at the time was 12. Okay. And so were they sleeping already? They were all awake. They were awake and like doing slumber party stuff. And the mom was awake and everything? Yes. Holy shit. Yeah. So he tied the friends up first and put pillowcases over their head. And then he took her out of the house. And he told them to count to a thousand or he'd kill them. Jesus.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So once they heard him go, they got free and then ran to the front of the house and said someone took Polly. Good for them. So the other thing is Dave Anthony, the co-host of The Dollop, my first comedy boyfriend, when we lived in San Francisco, he still worked at the bank in his hometown, which is Novato, the town next to my town.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Going south to San Francisco. And his boss at that bank, his daughter was one of those two girls. Oh, shit. So when this shit kicked off, it was like everyone you knew was affected in some way. Everyone you knew knew a person.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Everyone you knew... Like my sister's best friend, Adrienne, who is basically like my sister too, she pulled out a photo album one time because she also worked at Bio Bottoms. That job was actually really awesome. It was like paid you way more than minimum wage. And we basically just sat there from like six in the morning until two in the afternoon and took calls and took orders.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And so you could actually make kind of a good living and then have the rest of your day done. So she was like a young mother. She worked there with me. She pulled out a photo album one time of there was somebody had a baby shower and everybody was there and Eve brought Polly to that baby shower. So this girl was like, it's that thing where it's not just, oh, a girl from our town. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Everybody knew this family.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, and I think that's also that thing that ties us into it is because like I remember the first time I went home, my sister called me to tell me that it happened. And the first time I went home, I drove... So to get off the freeway, I have to drive up Petaluma Boulevard. And then my parents now live... My dad lives in town.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They finally... Of course, when we graduated from high school and moved out, that's when my parents moved into town and got cable. Okay. And ordered pizza constantly. They didn't have cable until you left for college? No. No, I... My friends would talk about the Brady Bunch. That was like on Channel 44, which was like, oh, that's the San Francisco station that like other people have. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We just had dipshit Gilligan's Island.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, it's so weird. And also because my dad's a fireman, which is this classic move of firemen, which was we have cable in the firehouse. We don't need that shit. So he saw all the terrible stuff that cable provided and he was like, I'm keeping that away from my kids. And yet it didn't make a fucking difference. Look at you now. look at the things I'm talking about and how much I say the F word.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It has no, it had no bearing on your life at all. I think it pushed me the other direction. That's why I'm a Satanist. Just kidding, dad. He's not listening to this. So anyway, what the first time I came home after my sister told me about it, I'm pretty sure it was for Thanksgiving. Um, Or maybe it was somewhere in the middle of November. The entire town, because Polly's favorite color was purple.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
The entire town and every fucking car had a purple bow on it. Like a purple ribbon, like the yellow ribbon for soldiers. There was purple ribbons for waiting for Polly to get found. How long had she been gone by that point? Well, she got kidnapped on October 1st. Wow. And so this was probably three weeks later. It was everywhere. And it was like, it gave me the chills.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
By the time I got to my parents' house, I was crying. Oh, no. It was so heavy. Then my sister, who loves to be this person, started telling me all the stuff that she heard. And apparently, so that happened the night of October 1st. The next day, they had to tell all the kids at Petaluma Junior High because she was in, I believe, seventh grade. Yeah. And she is the beginning of seventh grade.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like if it was October, she'd probably only been in school for a couple months. They made the announcement that she was missing and they had flyers that said, have you seen me? And they said, after school, we want you all in. to hand these out everywhere you can. The kids took the flyers and all got up and left school right that moment and went out into the town. Are you crying? Yep.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
My sister told me that story and I sobbed for like 10 minutes straight because it's like these kids, this was a girl that was their friend. This was the girl they had a crush on. This was like a real person, a human being. That someone just fucking took out of her room. I mean, it's so brazen that it's... It's a nightmare.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Exactly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
How do you protect yourself? You can't blame anything. Yeah, exactly. And, and also that, yeah, it's just, it's every parent's nightmare. It's every kid's nightmare.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So the young, the young children of that class in Petaluma High, Petaluma Junior High, I've always had just this, like the biggest warm spot in my heart for them because also it was just like, we don't give a fuck. Like put us on detention. What are you going to do? We are going to go do everything we can to help find her. Yeah. And how can you sit through the rest of the school day.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I mean, I get it. I mean, I'm sure, you know, but it's just, it was kind of just a beautiful, incredibly sad thing and the whole town took it that way. I mean, everybody, you know, they, so Winona Ryder is from my hometown. Okay. And she... I think she also grew up out in the country like I did. And she went to Petaluma Junior High and Petaluma High School.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And she came back and she made the announcement when they were still looking for her. So they ended up finding her... Or no, they... they ended up like making an arrest near the end of November, the beginning of December. So somewhere in there, like at the end of November, Winona Ryder went on TV and made an announcement at national news saying, this girl's missing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
If you've seen her, we love her. She's part of the community. This is my town. Like all the shit where, you know, I'm sitting in an apartment in San Francisco watching it being like, this is so weird. This is my, this is where I grew up. This is my whole life. And like, and it's everyone going like, yeah, this is, this is our girl. Like we have to find her and someone has to do something.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Exactly. I freeze up. I have perfectionism. And then I'm, yeah, I just go fuck it. I've spent my life saying fuck it, essentially.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So the horrible part of all of it is these, the, the policemen, the Petaluma police actually immediately called in the FBI. They did all that stuff that, uh, we talked, we talked about like, and there's other store Novato, uh, That other murder, that young girl where they just immediately call the FBI like they know they're in over their head. They do the whole missing persons thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But the problem was the night that it happened when the APB went out, it went out on the sheriff's channel, which was channel one. And that night, there was some Sonoma Valley police officers that found... So a woman was babysitting at her boss's house, and she saw a car that was on her boss's private road.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And so she called the police and said, I don't know who this guy is, but there's a car sitting down there stuck in a ditch and someone needs to come. So it was the from from what I saw on Wikipedia, it said Sonoma Valley Police. I'm not sure if that's accurate or what area they were in. Yeah. But it was it was somewhere kind of in the rural part.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Um, cause so it all goes kind of starts going by County. So it might've been Sonoma County sheriff, Sonoma County police, whatever, but they call the police to go out there and the police who went were on channel three. This was before they had united all of the APB channels. So if the APB went out for the sheriff's department, it only went out to the other sheriffs on channel one, I guess.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Now they have it because of this kidnapping and this murder. Um, They changed all of that. So the second an APB goes out in 911, whatever thing like that, everybody hears it on all of those channels. But it wasn't like that then. So these two cops go up and they check this guy out. They don't know. They don't like how he looks. They don't like where he is. They don't.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They're asking him a bunch of questions. He's got an open container. He's clearly been drinking. He's got leaves in his hair. He's got shit on him. And but they searched the car. There's nothing going on. There's nothing in the car. So there's nothing they can do. They told, they really didn't like they just the feel of it, knowing nothing about what was going on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They didn't like him, but they told the, um, and this is going to sound blamey, but it's, it's one of those things where it's like you, it's better to overdo it than not do anything at all. Definitely. Because they told the, uh, property owner, um,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
you need to make a citizen's arrest so we can arrest this guy because we can't... There's nothing that's going on that we can do anything about because this is a private road. It's your property. So you need to come out and say, I want... You're under citizen's arrest and then we can take him away. And the property owner was like, I don't want to do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. So... So they have to let him go. Yeah. But what they did was they did... They basically did every little piece. This is like now the opposite of most of the stories we hear. These cops did every little piece of paperwork they possibly could about this guy. They took his name. They took all the information about his car, where they were, the report and everything. And they filed the thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's called like an F1 file or something like that. And it was the one thing that they could basically do was fill out this... what is it called? It's called an, it doesn't really matter. It's like an F1 card or something like that. That basically says, this was an event that happened that the police got called to that we don't like, but there's nothing we can do, but it happened.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And we want people to know. So they did that immediately. And then when did they find out that that's who that was? Sorry, it was an FI card, a field interrogation card. So they have all his information. They have the car information. And what happened? Sorry, what was the question? That makes sense. So when did they realize who it was?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, okay. So once they left, they don't know. On November 28th, so then it was basically two months later, that same property owner is inspecting her property after loggers partially cleared the property of trees. And she discovers items that make her think that they might have matched those used in the kidnapping. Oh, no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I like this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So the sheriff's department goes out there and they find a torn pair of ballet leggings that match by the FBI crime lab to the other part of the leggings that were taken as evidence the night of the kidnapping. So they basically... The theory is that he had already taken her out of the car and hidden her out in these bushes while and then went back to the car.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Then the cops pull up and he's just like, yeah, you can look at any shit that I want because she's tied up in the bushes over there. They don't know whether or not he when they arrested this guy. So this guy's named Richard Allen Davis. Okay. He is on par with Charles Manson in how many times he has been arrested, been in jail, like the worst record, miles long. He wouldn't tell them anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
He wouldn't tell them the events. Once he confessed that he's the one that killed her... He wouldn't give them details of anything. So they would try to walk him through it and he just wouldn't say what happened or what he did or anything. He just admitted like they had all the enough evidence to bring him to trial. And he basically was like, yeah, I did it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But he didn't he didn't tell them he didn't. They don't know if she was murdered that night. They don't know if he kept her for longer. But she wasn't found. Her body wasn't found there. Her body was found off of the 101 freeway pretty far north up in Cloverfield, which is like it's so weird to like when I you hear all these things like these are the towns where we played basketball.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We played against them in softball in high school. It's like the town you would go to. We would go there on our way to Blue Lake, on our way to vacation. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. So it's just like, you're just thinking as you drive up, it's also rural up there anyway, but as you drive up, you just look out and somewhere off the side of the highway, there was a little girl's body buried.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's really awful. essentially the three strike law was put into place after this case happened because this guy had such an insane record where it was like you can't just get arrested for a ton of terrible shit like 50 times in your life and just keep getting out and keep doing stuff like this he was pretty awful so he admitted to strangling her to death
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's so good and bad at the same time. My grandma's saying was, be quiet now. No. Is she Romanian?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But that's all the information that he would give. I wonder why he wouldn't because he was toying with them.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
He was super weird. So when they when they put him on trial, he did a bunch of weird shit. He flipped off like the jury like he was Mancini in that way where he it was stuff like before they arrested him in my town. There was the rumor was that the father did it. Oh, fuck. And it was because they were like, he owes money for gambling. He's this, he's that. And the father was on TV constantly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
If you remember anything from this case, you remember Mark Kloss being on TV and talking about her. So I think a lot of people in my town, their reaction to that was like, it seems like you're enjoying this. publicity a little too much. Wow. Looking back, that poor guy. Yes. What an awful thing to say. Yeah. Well, that's small town gossip. You know what I mean?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
She was a vampire or something. I'll be quiet now. She was a gypsy. I only saw her once.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Where everyone's looking for the answer. And so it's easy to get a target on your back. Sure. And also, it's one thing to be on the news crying and being like, I need my daughter back. But I don't know. It was easy to kind of put that on him because I think he was a zealot. But I mean, you know, it's that thing of like, we don't know how people grieve. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And he could be the kind of person that's like, I just need to do something with myself. Sure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who's to say how you would act or how it would be. Here's the good news, if any, about any of that. There's a there's now they took the there's this little church that in this weird part of the road where I go to go to my dad's house and
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And they took that and that's now called the Polly Kloss Center for the Performing Arts because she was big into theater and she wanted to be an actress. And that was why it meant so much that Winona Ryder came back and talked about her. It was all very sweet. So they've kind of dedicated that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
to like kids you know making sure kids like I guess have a place to perform and I don't know it's for that part it's very sweet and positive um and the thing about they basically all the things that got fucked up in the beginning of with through communication they actually did stuff about sure yeah that's great like the APB thing and the three strikes law they're like a lot of
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Good things came out of that. It's amazing. But also Richard Allen Davis actually had to get put into solitary because he was getting beaten up so much. So God bless like that jailhouse justice. Like they couldn't they couldn't wait to beat this man up for killing this girl.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But they actually... And he's on death row. He got the death sentence. So he's still alive now? He's still alive because California doesn't ever really execute anybody. So it's just... It's people sitting on death row. But his lawyers actually tried to say... They tried... They have tried to get... Where is this part?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They basically tried to say that it's torturing him by making him wait to find out when he's going to be executed. Oh, please. They tried to make that argument that it's like... What do you call that? It's called the inhumane...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Something along those lines. When I read the paragraph, I was just like, you got to be fucking kidding. Who would actually have the balls to say that out loud?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, let's walk away from it. No, no. Like, just try it. Why don't we try it?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. It must be hard. I would never want to be a lawyer. No. Oh, cruel and unusual pun. There it is. Yeah. That's the one we were looking for. Wow. Yeah. That's sad. So that's mine. I actually had a lot of guilt for not doing this story earlier because it's my real hometown murder because I knew it was really a part of my life. But then also it feels bad to talk about.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I actually hesitated in saying her mom's name because I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to do anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I don't think I have either.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Okay. Also, there was, this is, there was another little girl that got killed in my town that no one talks about because she was Black. Her name's Georgia Moses. And that story is really sad and awful. I'll do it a different time. But that actually gets brought up a lot in tandem with Poly Class because it's like, Poly Class was a beautiful little girl who was like, you know, she was...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, she wasn't blonde, but she was. Let's say she was blonde. But it's that thing of like, you know, the press loves like a beautiful little martyr like that. Yeah. And then when it's a story of a girl who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and had all the worst in her life and then was just murdered, like just thrown away. No one talks about it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Except for Tom Waits, who lives in my town, who lives way out in the country, wrote a song.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No. I just think it's like, you know what? It's all around us. That's kind of the thing that I feel like keeps coming up on this podcast. It's like, this isn't special. No, I know. It happens. The people that it happens to are and it's a full on tragedy. in ways that you can't even take in. But it happens constantly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
box. I know, but man. What do you think? Someone's going to go stand by the P.O. box and wait for you? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's the whole point of P.O. Boxes is there's someone that works there. And if someone's just start standing by a P.O. Box, they're like, hey. Right. Hey, weirdo with the kitchen knife, get the fuck out of here.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So horrible. So horrible. Yeah. I mean, everything about this story is horrible, obviously. There are a few updates on this case. In May of this year, Richard Allen Davis's attorneys argued that his death sentence should be recalled because of recent changes to California sentencing laws. A California judge rejected the resentencing bid, and Davis is still on death row.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And the Poly Class Foundation, a national nonprofit focused on recovering missing children and promoting child safety policies, has assisted, to this date, 10,000 families in locating their missing children. That's incredible. If you want to donate to the Poly Class Foundation or learn more about them, please go to poly.org. The name Polly, P-O-L-L-Y, K-L-A-A-S.org.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Make a little donation to Poly Class Foundation. That'd be amazing. Let's do it. I would love that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you. Oh, also, I talk about this. There was a kind of a parallel case that I brought up in this story, which is is the murder of Georgia Lee Moses, which is, I believe, still a cold case. And Georgia Lee Moses was a young black girl. I think she was 13 years old or 12 years old. And she was found.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I mean, I've already you've heard me say it if you just listen to that clip, but it didn't get really any coverage.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. We had Derrica and Natalie Wilson on the podcast. I mean, when was that? Was that like two years ago? That was during the pandemic, for sure. Oh, my God. But they were amazing. We got to talk to them about this foundation, about the work that they do. I believe there was an HBO podcast. docu-series about them. Definitely go watch that. Incredible.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Okay, now it's time for Georgia's story, and she tells the legendary story of the murder of Kitty Genovese. This podcast is sponsored in part by Midi Health.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Right now, they're offering Prove hormone test kits free to the first 200 My Favorite Murder listeners who sign up for a MIDI virtual visit like Georgia clearly did.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And yes, MIDI health services are covered by most major insurers.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I just saw that invitation and I was like, it was a big long thing about being invited, but there were no details where I was like, what time? Like where? Yeah. What? And then I just kind of gave up after that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
This is like now we're opposite seas again. This is where I'm brave, where I would just be like, Come at me. Give it your best. I'm terrified. I know, but who cares? I mean, you could take a nice swing at somebody. What a stupid way to die, though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I wouldn't. P.O. Box is like the most vague. Like if it's a city, you don't even know if the person lives in that city. You just got the P.O. Box. And also this is Los Angeles. There's so many people here. So like I almost want to say millions.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, that's so understandable. I don't know how people deal with that when they find out the details of horrible things that happened to their... Like those next of kin. I mean, it's awful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. It's like... But also it's New York City. I know. It's that thing where, yeah, you don't... What are you going to go out there and who knows what's actually happening?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But it makes sense in that city setting. Yeah. Like anything can happen and you just don't know. Yeah. Right. You put your life at risk for a stranger who could turn around and be like, get the fuck out of here. Totally. You don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, those are people that are like, I've had plenty of trouble. I I'm not doing it anymore. Right. You mind your fucking business.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
sounds fucking right i dare say that sounds right okay all right and also no offense but there's better p.o boxes to stand next to everything was great up until you just said that and now i'm dummies than you so sad there's so many better dummies in this town oh no thank you don't be sad i meant that in the complimentary way is there one No. But I mean, Justin Timberlake lives here somewhere.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
What?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, it's pretty sick. I have to say, I've seen a picture of that guy. He has very plucked eyebrows.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Where am I? Oh, no. No, that's exactly right. He looks like a drag queen at the end of her shit. Like washed it all off, is ready to just, you know. High cheekbones. High cheekbones, very plucked eyebrows or something. Like a cat-like face. Yes. Oh, God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That is Ted Bundy action. Ted Bundy was a psychology major. Son of a bitch.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And they know...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Much sadder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, you know what? How about you put your super sociological mind to that and say, then maybe don't stab people and you won't be so deeply victimized by your fucking shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, that's this is the Brock Turner thing of like this. This drunken girl is ruining my whole future. It's like no rapist. Yeah. You ruined your future. Yeah. You did it, dummy. Like it's they it's that it's very psychopathic. It's like you skip over the thing you did that made things happen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, yeah. I asked that because I'm sure you... I have stopped participating with people like that for that very reason. If you cannot admit your own fault in your life, that the behavior that you bring to the table is the thing that affects and creates... The situation around you, if it's always other people, then you have a major problem.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You have to read the book, The Sociopath Next Door. Yeah. Because I think the numbers are, it's one in four people are sociopaths. And those people have no conscience. Everything is a power game to them. All they want to do is beat you and they will beat you In terms of money, in terms of sex, in terms of status. That's all they care about. And they don't have empathy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So you're constantly left going, I would never do this. But it's like, yeah, that's right. Because this person is nothing like you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You should look for it in everyone. You should because then you know when you're being mind fucked, you'll go, oh my God, that's, oh, now I realize why I'm so, like you need to know that information. Yeah, okay. You need to be able to spot a sociopath. I think that should be taught in high schools.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That's what I'm saying. Okay. That's what I mean.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
studying up on him Vince is not a sociopath I know he's not oh you just don't want him to see you yeah paying attention to it yeah or like being like why are you reading that say I'm doing it for you baby yeah this is for this is for the marriage should I say I'm a sociopath I think our cats are sociopaths one in four. I mean, if we had one more person in this room, it would be one of us.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I was just going to say go kill him, but that's not okay. The people who kill are not influenceable by these podcasts. They're not going to be like with their murder kit under the passenger seat and then be like, you know what, girls? You show me the way.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, also because sometimes people just piss you off. So it's like calling someone a sociopath is very satisfying. Yeah. Like, well, this makes sense. But I do know people who after being friends with them for a while and then being like, I cannot be friends with you anymore. You are like you're basically a vampire. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Then when you when you pull away and then you read this book, you go, holy shit. Yeah. I mean, there's like a step by step thing where it's like, is this a person who would never cop to anything? Is this a person who only ever wanted to take more for themselves? It's like it's a very clear kind of defining thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yes. Well, part of it, I do the exact same thing. And for me, part of it is an ego problem because I think the world revolves around me 100%. So I like the idea of people of like, oh my God, this person is doing this and that. Like it adds to my egomania of like, everybody's thinking of me all the time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
it's better to let it go. Like the healthier thing is to be like, maybe I had 50% of that. Maybe I had 0% of that. Like, but look at it, learn from it, move on and let it go. But to sit around and be like, Oh, I was so bad that time. It's like, yeah, you're just thinking of yourself and not thinking of other people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm a sociopath. Are you? I'm in video right now. One in three, one in three, including Elvis. It's me. But what if it's me? No, it's not me. Well, do you have a conscience?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, I'm totally... Guilt. I mean, we got that covered. Yeah. Steven. Guilty.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Could you answer some questions for me as I, let me just pull this book out of my back pocket.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
See, I remember that story from psychology class that she got stabbed like 35 times. She got stabbed a lot more once he came back. Oh, okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So terrible. That's so nightmarish. There's a crime to remember about Kitty Genovese.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And it's such a classic case. I feel like even if you've never been interested in true crime, you've heard the Kitty Genovese story. It's like prerequisite in college and stuff. But I guess it's an interesting thing to be like, yeah, you know, this thing that you've heard about your whole life. It's not the way you heard it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I haven't seen this movie, but I also recommend the Crime to Remember episode about her, Kitty Genovese, because they put out some other alternate theories that are very interesting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Lisa's on that Facebook page. NPR for sure. Oh, I saw, can I recommend a Netflix series that I watched all of in one day? Always, always, always. Oh, Olive. This is from our new section, Olives. Olives time. Olives always. All of you. It's called Marcella or Marcella. They pronounce it because they're British. So they'll do a fancy pronunciation that baffles me as I've already proven.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. They don't they didn't seem convinced he did it. But I did none of that information that he'd already killed two other women was in there. They focused a lot on how racist the NYPD was back then. And so that they basically would grab up black people, black men. Yeah. And just be like, were you in the neighborhood? It's you. It sounds like way different than it is today. Oh, so, so different.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Um, I would just like to say because I saw a documentary. Is yours done? Sure. Yeah, no, totally. Oh, okay. No, it totally is. Well, I just saw this. I'm going to bring yours to an end so I can recommend my documentary that isn't true crime. But well, it is because it's crime. Yeah. It's called Tickled.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And it is unbelievably amazing because it starts out there about this online tickling competition, tickling league, professional tickling league, I think it's called.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yes. Except for it's not what you think. It's not some weird like, can you believe these people exist? It goes into the craziest, darkest, scariest fucking thing. And it's this one New Zealand reporter who went looking into it because he's basically a human interest reporter for the local news. He got in too deep. he immediately started getting threatened.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And so instead of being like, whoops, better close this up, he starts investigating. And it's amazing. And interestingly enough, and not to talk about them all the time, but our friends, The Dollop, who did a very, very popular episode about these tickling competitions, uh, Very early on, like this guy did this New Zealand reporter did the story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They Dave and Gareth got sent the story, I think, by people in Australia or New Zealand saying, you guys have to talk about this. It's crazy. And so then they did that episode of the dollop was super popular. And it's actually featured in the documentary. Shut up. Yes. They have audio clips of the dollop talking about this. He's made it. And it's the very beginning of the movie.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then it goes into like... He's like... He basically is like, yeah, I thought this was this kooky, crazy thing. And then I started researching it. And it is...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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edge of your seat it was one of those things we saw at the sunset sundance whatever theater and there was only like 10 15 people in the theater and a bunch of us were all sitting in one row which was kind of funny like basically there was like nine people in one row and then like four people outside of our row yeah but by the end we were all talking to each other it was one of those like so upsetting and like oh my god what's happening what channel is it on i want to watch it
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Uh, no, it's a movie. It's a documentary movie that's in like art house theaters right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Everything is okay. Yeah. No, you're doing a lot of stuff. I liked when we were watching The Simpsons and we were on the same episode and then you were like, we've got to watch episode five together and live tweet it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I couldn't breathe. I get it though. Yeah. You get, I can tell when you're excited or like there's a lot going on because you're, it, it almost looks like you're slowly drowning and you're trying to tell me something before you go under. It's kind of what it's like.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You have to think about breathing more. Yeah. Because that's what yawning is about. Yawning is about low oxygen levels. Yeah. And you have to like your body goes take this take as much oxygen as in as you can.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. So a lot of great ideas, guys. A lot of great. Oh, there was someone that made my favorite piece of art that got made on the that got posted on the Facebook page last week is someone did a half.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
freehand drawing that was a picture of the forest that said um get a job make it buy your own shit stay out of the forest but but with these banners or did you see that yeah it's so beautifully done and it was someone who said their friend did it but they're not they don't want to be on the right
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's with Anna Friel. It's super good. It's a female homicide detective who's all screwed up, as all the good ones are. They're always screwed up. I watched the whole season, which I think was eight episodes, maybe more, in a day. And it was so good. And there's a couple people on the Facebook page who have recommended it. What's it called? Marcella is how it's spelled. Did you watch it, Steven?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
She's like, I'm going to hold it for four more days and then drop the bomb. And be like, guess what?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It makes me happy that a lot of people say they feel like we're best friends. Totally. Not with each other.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Bye. Okay, we're back. Are there case updates on a story this old? Yes, actually.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
A journalist would have caught that, you know, the who, where, when, what, how, you know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
All right. Well, that was it. That was the boiled down version of this episode. So now we'll talk about what we could have entitled it instead of 20 Justice for All.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yes, this is an auditory situation that we were doing written jokes, like page jokes for. Lots of mistakes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We meant very well. We did. We still do. And we still do. And also, that's the thing. We'll say it again and again. We're just people doing a podcast. That's all. Yep. That's all. Yep. That's it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Gotta compete. Gotta get out there. Gotta do podcasts on video.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's fun to be middle-aged on fucking all those websites.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm going to dig my 11 lines down a little deeper. I want to have way more stress and then see what that does to my old face.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I totally you should watch it. I've never heard of it. It's really good. And it's like, I mean, do you like do you like those kinds of procedurals like a Luther or a. What what country of origin?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's tough. But also what we have to remember is no one gives a shit anymore.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No one gives a single shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Can't wait until I'm sitting across from Kim Kardashian. What a joy. Okay. Thanks, everybody, for listening back then. Now, were you there? Are you here now? Oh, my God. That's so nice of you. Thank you. You must be so patient. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Was she dead?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's I just don't know. Maybe you need yours more character driven. Like Happy Valley is almost more about her family. Yeah. Her trying to deal with just her shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, it's the best.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, no, no. That's just my recommendation. There was like one lone person was like, did anybody watch this? It's so good. So I found that on the Facebook page. I was like, I did. I loved it. There's maybe there were two people actually, sorry. But I just wanted to tell more people if people liked, British procedurals like a Luther or a... I don't know. Dexter? Was that good? I did not like Dexter.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Never saw it. It was super cheesy. It's a different type of procedural because it was very heavy-handed. It was also narrated, which I almost always hate. Oh, interesting. Was it like CSIE? It was, actually. But yes, it was CSIE. But Michael C. Hall is awesome. He's from Six Feet Under. Oh, yeah, of course. He's great. And it's like the storylines are interesting because it's serial killer stuff.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But there was just a lot of like. I don't know, and it didn't do it the way I like it. I went to his house on Fourth of July once. Really? Yeah, that's now this is a we'll call this this area is called Celebrity Center.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Good. Throw him under the bus. Or give, why don't you have your mail sent to his mailbox? Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I have a feeling you have a very specific way you like to do a male situation. Well, I mean, yeah, probably things in general. Like, do you like to have it be a surprise? Remember last time I was afraid moths were going to come out? That's like a thing. I like a surprise, but probably because I knew you knew everything about it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And they never snow. What if we open it and then we have to fake our response? Because we're not that stoked on it? Or like, you know, I used to work at Bio Bottoms, which is a children's natural fiber clothing company in my hometown. And the returns department... Bio Bottoms? It was called Bio Bottoms. They made a shit ton of money. I bet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But the returns department used to come and tell us weird shit that they got.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I mean, as much as it would be fun to do that live. No, let's do it live. If we got, we should get like corners, like goggles, the full suit, gloves. Hazmat.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This, and you may know this already, but this is our Wednesday episode where we travel back in time to recap old episodes of this podcast. Then we return to the present. It is a very painful process.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Here I go again with my fucking... Plans and schemes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You're the architect of this high-rise building that we're living in. No. We do this together.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I actually get great joy from watching you take your Invisalign out of your mouth. Because it looks like it's three times bigger than your mouth as you take it out. So it's an event.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And I love my therapist. I've been with her for like 12 years. Yeah, really? Wow. Yeah. And that's, it was one day, I think I tried one other person because I told my friend who was a therapist, so I couldn't go to her. So she's like, just tell me what you want. I'll recommend. And I said, I need to talk to somebody that looks like Olympia Dukakis. Well, that was a mistake.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You can't do it that way. No. You can't cast it in your mind and pretend you're going to go act out scenes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Right. I don't want to go to her. I don't want to go into a cloud of pot to talk about my problem.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I don't want someone who keeps interrupting my good stories. There are stories of Woodstock and the doors. Yeah. No, that psychology today. Yeah. Yeah. Is this shit that website?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So in case you're too scared to ask. Don't be scared. Everyone's in therapy. And everyone needs to be in therapy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, it's good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's all about understanding yourself. Yeah, sure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Okay, we're back. Georgia, would you like to apologize to British Procedurals right now? Or Olivia Colman personally?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
This is exactly right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Oh, is that where that case? Oh my God. What's that woman's name?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Oh my God. All you said was hello and welcome. This is a special episode. Is that what you're going to say?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yeah. There's about eight red flags, and you just started telling me this story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
We're on vacation, you guys. We're not even here. This is fake if you're hearing us. We're somewhere else skiing. We're skiing. Are you skiing? Yeah, we're both skiing on the same set of skis. That's how we go on vacation.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Get ready. That's our vacation. Yeah. So we're on vacation. So this is a short episode and we will be back soon, but we don't ever want to leave you entirely. God forbid we do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Well, and it feels like—and this is obviously, I have no idea, but just hearing the details of what you've told me—
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
from the outside it's like she is trying to get the thing that she never had build the thing she never had with a person who does not want to give it to her and not only never intended to give it to her but who has been the last person she should be trying to do that with but obviously if she's been groomed since she was in junior high yeah
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Then she actually doesn't really know anything about... She wouldn't be able to, but then she's also been completely under the influence of this grown man. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
It's so tragic. And it's also the reason they say a lot of times pedophiles groom children who are at risk because there are those voices aren't there to tell them that or defend them or anything. It's just it's it's a tragedy on top of a tragedy. Totally. Do you ever wish cats could talk? Absolutely not. It would be nothing but insults and gaslighting. Oh my God, that would be so cute though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And today we're donating $10,000 to the Trevor Project. The Trevor Project aims to end suicide among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning young people and to ensure those young people see a bright future for themselves.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yeah, and with Quince, you can give yourself quality luxury essentials without the hefty price tag.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Karen, let's talk about your sweater. I'm literally wearing a Quince sweater right now. It is the Mongolian cashmere sweater. Cashmere sweaters used to be a thing my mom gave us one every year at Christmas. And it's like precious, you know, wrapped in tissue paper of like, be careful. And, you know, this was like this precious thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
The idea that you can get yourself a cashmere sweater for 50 bucks and have like this beautiful staple in your wardrobe is one of the many beautiful things about Quince. I love this brand.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Look at me. I'm acting like it's Christmas morning over here.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Go to quince.com slash MFM for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And if money isn't the thing you can give right now, they also have volunteer opportunities where you can work as a virtual volunteer to support young people to help them navigate tough times and prevent suicide.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Especially people that have some sort of a conscience or some sort of an ethical center. Right, right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Also basic, like human decency. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
You know, we're all on vacation. There aren't that many highlights, but we just want to tell you some important stuff. Like for example, the good news that the Exactly Right Store now has gift cards and they're the perfect last minute gift. So grab yours now at exactlyrightstore.com.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Oaths and duties to protect and serve really is kind of the banner. That's the banner statement where just like it's it's gone so insane with policing in America. It's just so out of control. It is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
That's, like, it's the act itself, the potential of that being true and, like, whatever the trial is going to result in. But then also just the overall corruption of, like, so you would actually protect something this craven. You would actually... You would actually participate in it and you would make sure it gets to keep happening. That's just like, that's horrifying on so many levels.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
I think Paul Hull's one time talked about how it's a very easy bone to break. So it isn't immediately proof.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yes, and if you're loving the podcast here on Exactly Right, then we beg you to go rate, review, and follow wherever you like to listen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
I mean, I, so I remember seeing like an article about that, I think when that first broke of like, this is like this controversy. And the reason like it sticks in my mind is because you're saying that the program she joined was from Boy Scouts of America. Yeah. Which, if you have ever seen Leave No Trace, which is a documentary about the Boy Scouts of America, it is harrowing and hair-raising.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
It's a program that almost encourages pedophiles and people who have ill intent toward children. Yeah. And the idea that then they're going through and it's like, we're going to take this and now implement it through policing. Yeah. The people who seem to have ultimate authority over everybody all the time. Like, what a nightmare. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And then like, not without oversight, but with oversight by those predators. By their, yes, the same people. Yeah. Wow. That's going to be kind of fascinating to see how that case turns out. It is that thing of like once you kind of pull, pick up that rock and like let the sunshine come through, it's like at least gives people hope for like if one thing gets exposed, then the exposure spreads.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Right. But also all year round. So Valentine's, Easter, whatever. We're going to keep asking for this present.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
But God, these are like, these ones are bad. It's, you know, we don't want to sit on here and talk about anything like we know anything. But like, this is what this podcast is, is us consuming media and going, wow, as an average American, what in the hell is going on? Well, great job. Thank you. So, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yeah, we'll just keep our vacation promise to you. Hey, we're gone now. We're skiing at the moment, but... Tandem skiing. We still want to tell you all of the horrible things that are happening in the world so that you can have a good holiday.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yes. And also, if you need a palate cleanser and we don't have the one we normally build in, go over to the Minnesota's because there's some real joyful shit happening over there. Real fun time stories, real good stories about people's grandmas and their trash dads and those games where you step into a cabinet and money gets blown all around you. What's it called? Money? A money grab?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
A money booth. Money booth. Money booth.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yeah. And you know, in the meantime, we'll see you when we get back. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
This episode was mixed by Liana Squilacci.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Talkspace provides personalized treatment for individuals, couples, the LGBTQIA plus community, veterans, and teens.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
It seems like you're talking about something specific, Georgia. Mom! As a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com slash MFM and enter promo code SPACE80.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Thank you so much for having me. By putting online courses, videos, and memberships behind a paywall, you can earn revenue with one-time fees or subscriptions.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Are you going to tell me a story?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
There's a G in there, you know? All kinds of G's and H's and T's.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yes, completely. And I think it also is, I feel like I was reading recently that, Yeah, it's a coping mechanism that we learn early and that, just like you're saying, is a bit for connection, but also I think there's a little bit of a, I'm just thinking of how I do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Where it is that kind of thing of like, this is, like, get to know me and then if you don't like it, then you can go. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And yeah. And if you don't like any of this, then, then great. We're all on the same page. It's kind of like that. Like it's also, that's very controlling. It's kind of trying to say, I can't deal with the basic back and forth nuance of a normal adult relationship. I have to run it this way where it's like, throw it on the table. If you don't like it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Well, it's I think it's from maybe past transgressions where vulnerability has been a bad idea for you. And so you just don't want it to happen again. So you're like, fine, here's here's how we're going to run it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Exactly. Exactly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I'm just staggered at it was 2008. Yeah. So it's like this idea, there were people nearby and there was computers nearby and things that could have helped this. Like a GPS. Just learn it. That was like me getting that fucking car and then getting into it and being like, I don't know how to drive this car.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It sounds like literally I've been listening for seven days and I've dreamed of writing an email forever.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah, exactly. Let's keep it on the ground. And also, I think with Lawn Chair Larry's story, it's just like, do we all need to be told often that you can't control balloons? Right. And they just go, if you get a bunch.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I don't know. Like, 2008 seems like we're due. Hey, everybody, if you have some sort of plan to get a bunch of balloons. Well, there's Balloon Boy. Remember? Balloon Boy was fake, though. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. That was... That was tragic, actually, because that was weird stage parents putting their child at the center or something. It was.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I feel like the way America reacted to Balloon Boy, it was all like, oh, no, look away. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah. It's very sad. Oh, anyway, you interrupted my great announcement. What? Hey, if you were thinking of raising money or just going on a trip with balloons, don't do it. You won't be able to control them. Okay. This is our public service announcement. Don't do it. Fucking the end. Listen. Okay. We'll work on that public service announcement. We'll do another one next year that's more effective.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Okay. This is funny sibling story. Hey, ladies. Love what you do. I'm the youngest of three daughters, and growing up, I always wanted to do whatever my sisters were doing. It was hard for them because I was so much younger, and they really wanted nothing to do with me. My oldest sister, Kaylee, came up with a game for us to play. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
for us to play together that was a good compromise for everyone called Servant and Princess. From the title, you can probably guess how it went. Kaylee would be the princess and I would be the servant doing whatever she asked me to do. In return, I would get a quarter as a reward for all my work. I loved this game and I would ask her to play it with me as often as she would allow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
If her friends came over, even better for me because I got to play with the big kids and would have more princesses to serve. That's so sweet. I look back and laugh at how funny and brilliant she was for coming up with this game where she got catered to all day. Yeah. And I felt included and loved the time I got to spend with her. Now that we're all grown up, we're very close.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And I feel lucky to have her as a sister, even though we didn't really get along for the first 18 years of my life. Isn't that every sister story?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah. And then it just says, thanks for all that you do, Tori. That's cute.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I mean, and my big sister sent it to me. Yeah. Like this is my favorite. And I, the second, because I knew, you know, it's coming. Say, please may I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Fuck that girl. And she makes her do it a couple times and keeps adjusting it. Do it perfectly. Fuck. Okay. Little sisters. It's so fucking hard. It's the funniest. And also, they're always going to do that to you over and over. Right. And then it's like, oh, the youngest ones are always so wild. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
These frames were ranked as the number one digital picture frame by Wirecutter, and here's why. They're incredibly easy to set up, update, and enjoy. Oriframes features a high-resolution display showcasing photos in vivid detail. Users can also update their frames from anywhere using the Aura app, making it convenient to add new memories.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Plus, you can preload them with photos and a gift message, making it personal right out of the box. I gotta say, I went home for Thanksgiving, visited my dad, and that Aura frame is sitting on the counter facing him in the living room.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
So he's watching football in his lazy boy recliner, but he can look right over here and it's like, my niece when she was five years old, my niece when she was two years old, my niece when she was just born. A picture from the 70s. My niece, you know, at the prom.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And the principal and the secretary, they were just like, thanks so much, buddy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Oh, my God. Thank God for this kid's little bladder, for Bailey's little bladder. And also just for hauling ass, like understanding. Don't stand there in freeze mode. Yeah. This is something's off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
First of all, gorgeous intro of that email. Yes, like the structure of that story. Just to like, clearly you're way ahead of the other second graders.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Let me tell you why I have it. The declaration, though, of like, it's me, the child hero. It's me. It's so good. But also interesting. You didn't peak at seven years old, Bailey.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
You just do the kind of work that goes unappreciated all the time, which is you are a logical, level-headed thinker that probably is like, oh, if you leave the dinner plans for your group of friends to that person, they'll go where they want to go, which doesn't have the right seating. Right. You take over and you're like, here we go. This is where we're going.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah. You're the day-to-day, level-headed, don't panic second grader that's grown into, I'm assuming, a beautiful young woman. Eye of the tiger, really. Right? Congratulations. I wish I had a little ribbon.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
A little ribbon medal? Was George Washington's bus on it? Did I say busts? No. Bus? George Washington bussing on it? Bussing. Okay. I'm last. I got a look just now from Karen. That means someone's going to cry? Okay. Someone. Kid Pastimes Playing in the Sand, A Strange Brother Edition. Hello from the hellscape that is the end of 2024. Hi. Hi. No one's going to save us but ourselves.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Create genuine community. Find your support system. I'm reading an email right now, just so you know. I'm reading from the first paragraph of this email. They're opening up fucking hard and fast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
strong they're coming in saying exactly what needs to be heard create genuine community find your support system give what you can and as the ever fabulous divine said be twice as gay do twice as many crimes Fuck yes. I love it. What an opening. Yeah. You asked us for stories of what we did growing up to pass the time. My older brother is two and a half years older than me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
He would have a toy gun and I'd have my water baby. And then in parentheses it says, a plastic baby filled with water.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
No, I think it was like a... Well, he had a water gun. Oh, a water gun. Sorry, my assumption was that she would use that baby to squirt water. But I think now that I reread it, you're right. It's just a toy gun. It's not a water gun toy gun. Let's keep going and I'll help you out. Okay. And sometimes the Terminator would hang out with the Barbies in Rainbow Valley.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And then that says, the stairs when a crystal in the window cascaded rainbows all over the carpet. But my favorite thing we did was play in the sand patio out back. My dad was supposed to make my mom a flagstone patio, and he finally hired someone to do it only 40-some years after he promised. Consequently, we had a huge sand pit. We would dig a complex riverbed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
We stacked wooden logs for the spout. of the water hose as our water fell. Once the stream was ready, my brother would run to the side of the house to turn on the water. He'd run back as fast as he could so we could watch our creation come to life. Once we even brought crawdads, we got at a real stream to put in ours, only for them to burrow deep in the sand and never be found.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yep. Good luck in your sandpit, children. My only sibling, my brother and I drifted apart as drugs took over his life as a teenager. Now addicted and living on the streets, I haven't spoken to him in a long time. Writing in, I'm struck by what an amazing person he was. Most brothers would send the little sister to turn on the water. He wanted me to see it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Thank you for reminiscing playing stream with me as I can't do it with him. Be gay, do crimes. Anonymous. She, her. Anonymous. Come on. That's a sweet one. Here's the thing. Because seriously, the beginning of that email is so smart and good and strong. Yeah. And it's like, and this is, I think, those kinds of memories and things are truly like the glue inside.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I feel like those kinds of reminding, even when there's loss, there's beauty. That's why you miss him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And it's the idea, like, it's a great email anyway, but the idea of that they get to understand that that's what their brother did for them is so beautiful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Make us, well, you know what it is? Make Georgia cry. It's easy to make me cry. Make Georgia cry. Yeah, do it. I dare you. Good luck. Nothing, nothing sad about animals. No, no, no. I feel like we have to make rules now. No, everyone knows that. Do it. We mean poignant crying, not like, oh, my God. Don't call me names. Oh, my God. Please don't bully Georgia through email.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
That's the way to get her. Don't do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
This has been an Exactly Right production.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
That's just a straight up tragedy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Let's see if they have a point. Let's see if we're going to get somewhere.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Right. What would have been the problem with going down and rinsing that handprint off?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah, that for some reason no one is taking care of. Yeah, and that you have to ask about before they'll tell you about it. They'll let you as a child wander down into a darkened basement and discover it yourself. Right. And not be like, we want to keep that there as a remembrance or anything. It's just like, hey, go find it. It's like write a passage.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
You're standing by it? I'm standing by it. Nice. Stand by your email. Yeah. I mean, I like it. Yeah. It's a very good point. It is. It's a little Brene Brown of like that idea that we're all supposed to be ashamed because we're not perfect. Right. When in fact. We all have. We all have all these things. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
The subject line of this email is, you fucking debunked my hometown legend, question mark, exclamation point. And it says, hi there, KNG. This is usually the part when someone says long-time listener, first-time writer. However, I'm breaking the mold. I started listening to MFM in February 2024 and have been breezing through multiple episodes a day.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Shout out to my friend Maria for getting me hooked and to Karen for recommending I skip the first 100 episodes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I don't remember that. Because it was back when we were fucking just blabbing, saying all kinds of horrifying shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
There were so many episodes. In the beginning, it was just two gals recording a hang.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
No, not even close. In episode 463. There's no way I am that off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
You're just in the fourth 100. Right. Okay. In episode 453, Karen covers the Hammond, Indiana circus train crash and mentions showman's rest at Woodlawn Cemetery, where the victims of the crash were buried. Woodlawn Cemetery is in my small hometown of Forest Park, Illinois.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I've been considering writing in this hometown ever since I started listening, but the story I grew up hearing is a bit different. The town legend originally stated that the crash happened in Forest Park and that the only victims were four circus elephants. In Forest Home Cemetery in Forest Park, there are four large hills at each corner of the cemetery.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
The legend had it that the hills were actually the graves of those elephants. Oh. You're saying legend. I'm saying, was it your uncle who was just kind of like bored and telling you a story? Legendary uncle? So the most legendary uncle of Forest Park, Illinois. My new screenplay. The story seemed so far-fetched that even hearing it as a first grader, it never really made sense.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I was thrilled to hear the real facts of the story in the latest spooky Halloween episode and felt an immense sense of pride knowing that there was at least some truth to our small town's legend. Forest Park is a blue-collar village just outside of Chicago that is only two square miles and is the home of three cemeteries.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Part of the legend is that Forest Park held the world's record for the highest ratio of dead people to alive people. But I'll leave that to you two experts to debunk. Daily City. Daily City or Colma, right? Yeah. Which is the real, I mean, all cemeteries. What if we got really competitive with Illinois where we're like, I think that belongs to coma. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Thank you both so much for being real as shit all the time. We can't help it. It's a crutch for you. You've inspired me to start therapy and become sober all in nine months of listening. Oh, my God. It's taken me nine years and I'm fucking only doing one of those things. Also, this is bullshit. Like, this sounds like someone, it's like, write in this email to make them feel better.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It's really changed my life. Double thumbs up. Yep. You are both very special to me. And I can't wait to see where the next year of listening takes me. And then it parentheses, it says more than likely to the first 100 episodes. Stay sexy and check your hometown facts and dead to a live ratios. Raelynn Sheher. Raelynn, I feel touched. I'm truly touched. I feel that was touching. I feel touched.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It's funny because we keep on making jokes, right? But we shouldn't when people are being touching with us. It's because we can't handle vulnerability. It doesn't feel great. Humor, cover it all up. With humor. You know, I've been rethinking Santa. He breaks into your house, he steals your cookies, and he vanishes until next year.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It could be. And also, I know that truck drivers are exhausted all the time and actually probably really need that. But it's like usually orphans in a far away. Children are hungry.