Georgia Hardstark
Appearances
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Also, it makes me think this poor family, like whoever is left standing, it's just like, how much can some people take? Because it's terrible. It's so much.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Oh, no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Oh, don't worry. I'll do the thing you want me to do. Right. Well, if you say that, then. Well, if you say you're going to do the thing I want you to do, then you must be legit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Phew. Thank God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah, keep that in mind if it's really hard to strangle somebody. It's very hard.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Oh, yeah. Everyone's getting real smart about forensics together.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Stay tuned and you can find out why we named it that. And join us today as we take you back to August 18th, 2016. God, the summer of 2016. And now we can all be day one listeners together.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Oh, no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah, and they're guys. That's what I'm saying. It's not fair. No, I know. I'm more and I'm still in the mode of if you're going to live in a cabin in the woods, then pull your gun out anytime someone approaches your home. Yeah. Like, I don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Krav Maga. I don't know. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Let's be as quiet as we can. Yes. Fuck, I screwed it up already. Yes! You want to be quiet? Yes! Yes! That's all I've ever wanted! Oh, God. Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgariff.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Fucked up shit. Did she say it was just her mom? It was her brother and her mom? Her and her brother and her mom. So like he spotted like moms with kids.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
It's the compulsion. And then there's sometimes that thing of like maybe you wanted to get caught. Yes. Well, it surprised me when you said that he cried when he was talking about that first girl.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Guys, there's so much going on in our world.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
There's someone at the door. They're here to hang you up from the highest limb of a tree.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
It's just, it's so dark and so odd. Because I think someone in this story... He was arrested and then someone asked him if he got his murderous tendencies because of what happened to his brother. And he was like, no, I've been fantasizing about murder since I was seven years old.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
All right, are you ready to transition? Always. Because mine, I was watching this documentary this weekend about this guy that I'm going to talk about, and it's very entertaining. Even though he is also a murderer, he is more a con man, which I actually kind of adore. You're like a mobster who won't kill women and children? Yes. And you're like, you know what?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
You know, when you can pick and choose the bad, this is the kind that I like. For the most part. Now, he is a borderline personality, I think, extreme narcissist. They have all kinds of... You know, the psychiatrist talked about what he was in court. But... he basically what it was, he was a guy who grew up in Germany as a very awkward teen in this documentary.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
They talk about, um, how he, when all their friends would go to like the, to the lake every summer, he would always go, but he would be fully dressed up and he would never, they never saw him in a bathing suit. Hitler. That man's name was Mr. Adolf Marie Hitler. Yeah. No, this was, well, he was born Christian Karl Gerhard Schreiter, but he had many names in his long con career.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
He also went by the name Chris Chichester, Chris Crow, Chip Smith, and finally Clark Rockefeller, heir to the Rockefeller family. You know this guy?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So tell me everything. It is here. It's worth getting to the part where Clark Rockefeller or Chris Chichester or Chip Smith or Chris Crow is my favorite because he when he was Chris Crow, he claimed to be a relative of Cameron Crowe. He does all these lies that are just small enough. They're big enough to impress you, but small enough to be believable. Right. And it is masterful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And he's a really legitimately IQ style intelligent person. But he also doesn't really have any morals. So most of the time everything's fine because he's just trying to get money and like work for himself and get what he wants. But...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
For a little while. Yeah. I think the limit's two years that people are happy around this guy. Then he starts getting real irritating. And that's when he gets kicked out of houses, fired from jobs, what have you. But so this is basically how it goes. He grows up as an awkward teen in Germany. He has a group of friends and in the documentary, the friends get interviewed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And what I loved is one of the friends goes, I love that he tricked all those rich Americans. And that part made me go, oh, yeah, that's true. He really did get away with huge, huge lies for a really long time. Yeah. So here's basically how it went.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Um, he also claimed to be, these are all the things he claimed to be an actor, a producer, a director, an art collector, a physicist, a ship's captain, a negotiator of international debt agreements, and an English aristocrat. He was, he did it all. So, um, when he was 17, he met an American couple who had pulled off and asked him for directions, um,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
on the side of the road, and he met them, got their names, and then when he wanted to go to America when he was 17, he used their names on the entrance documents to say that they had invited him there and that he was gonna go live with them. This was a one-off meeting on like the side of the road. And those people are also in this documentary. It's pretty awesome.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So he comes to the United States and he goes to Meriden, Connecticut, and he finds the family of a backpacker he met once on a train in Germany.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I have a hard time talking to people I've known for 20 years.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
OK, so he explains to them that he is from a very wealthy German family and that he is in America like he's a foreign exchange student. And can he stay with them because he's going to be going to the local high school?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
basically he starts going to high school in connecticut and basically his whole thing is he wants to be american he wants to blend in he becomes obsessed with gilligan's island and he starts talking like thurston halberd oh that's cool and when he appears in this documentary that's who he's talking like and it wasn't until i was reading this article where they mentioned this specifically where i started laughing because they don't talk about in the documentary
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
He does talk about it, but they talk about it like it's an inside ego. The the guy who makes the documentary who was friends with him brings it up, but they don't like he the Clark Rockefeller like kind of brushes it off like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he totally sounds like him. But he's talking like this. Oh, my God. That's perfect. And he's basically saying it's the funniest.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But also, it's that thing where I don't like to usually I don't like to listen to killers, especially I never watch anything where the serial killer is talking. I don't give a fuck what that guy has to say. He's evil. This guy's different, though, because he's a con man first and foremost. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
even though, yes, he's a bad person, killer, all of that, but he is a fascinating mind because he was smart enough to, as a teen, con all these people. So he goes to this high school. He decides that he wants to be an actor, so he heads west. But he makes it as far as Wisconsin, and he decides he's going to go to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Um, so once he's there, um, he decides he needs to, he's been in, in the United States long enough where he needs a green card basically needs to become a citizen. So he decides he's going to marry a local 22 year old woman, um, who he explains to her that he, he needs the green card. Cause if he gets sent back to Germany, um, he will have to fight in the Cold War on the Russian front.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Now, if you knew anything about anything, I mean, and I barely know anything about anything, but when I read that, I was like, hey, wait a second, pretty sure the Cold War didn't have a front. Because the Cold War was all about tensions and basically threats. There's no such thing as. There was no Russian front in the Cold War. I mean, there were places to go. There were bad things happening.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Definitely. He if the idea was that he was going to get sent back to like East Berlin and have to spy on his neighbors. Yes. Horrible.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Right. But there was no... The Russian front was from World War II. Yeah. That was a bad place to be. Sure. Anyway, she fell for it and married him. And the next day, he left for California. Bye! So I was like, was she... was she in agreement and fine with it? But then later I read that she filed for divorce in 1992, 11 years later.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Oh, I didn't even think about that. I immediately wrote the story of she was just heartbroken and like pining in Milwaukee for this fabulous European that bailed on her the day after because it said their wedding. So it sounded like it wasn't just the basics like city hall signs and papers. Like they had a wedding. Oh, no. That's sad. A little crazy. Yeah. All right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So he or maybe she is like me and is just bad about paperwork and doesn't get shit done in time. She's like, oh, that's right. I have to get divorced.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I'll do it when I have good reason that she's on Tinder swiping, swiping, swiping. Come on. So. he heads out to California. Now this is, it's so fascinating. He goes to San Marino. Now, I don't know if you've ever been to Huntington gardens. Oh, you're from down here. You know, San Marino is like, so Pasadena is a rich area that very few people I know live in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Cause it's like old money, rich, you know, you have to live out of the city. San Marino is richer than Pasadena. It's the, it's the city nestled up right next to Pasadena where all the mansions are. It's gorgeous. It's crazy. So, This is a guy who's in his early 20s, like college age. He's moving to L.A. to be an actor and he moves to San Marino to get. It doesn't make sense. San Marino.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Well, you know, I've found I I think because I like seeing I'm at that stage where that kind of nostalgia works on me because it's from when I was 10. Yeah. I love the look and feel, but that other stuff took me out of it. Well, and it's really hard to connect. This is, this is kind of like the Stephen King problem and like lost a lot of those things.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I looked it up. It's it was rated more expensive than Beverly Hills and Malibu. Oh, my God. To live in. So it just is nonsensical for like a young actor type to live there. Sure. But that's that's what he was about. He was like a total he was Thurston Howell third and he was trying to go become that person in like a very real way.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So he got... He rented the guest house that was in one of the least nice houses in all of San Marino. There is actually a slightly shabby part, which is just basically not million-dollar homes. And... In one of those houses, a woman named Dee Dee Sohus had a guest house on her property. Dee Dee reportedly was an alcoholic who was always dressed in a housecoat.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Which sounds like, hey, sister, high five. Yeah. And Didi had a son named John, who was five foot five, super into Dungeons and Dragons, Coke bottle glasses, and was married to a woman named Linda, who was six, a six foot tall redhead.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
They are. They are our type of people. Yeah. They lived in like the house adjacent. So it was almost like this little compound. And Clark Rockefeller at the time, his name was, let's see, his name here was Christopher Chichester.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Which is the dumbest made up name of all time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Stacy. Nancy St. Stacy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
That's not as bad as Chris Chichester.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah, throw more Cs in there, you dork. So, okay. So he shows up in San Marino. He's charming everybody. And what he tells them is that not only is he a computer expert, a film producer and a stockbroker, he is also the nephew of Lord Mountbatten. Yeah. So what I kind of do like about this all is all the people that get tricked by this guy are people who are label whores and status whores.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So anyone that's like impressed by impressed by someone talking like Thurston Hell the third and saying I'm I'm related to Lauren Lord Mountbatten. Yeah. where, like, in my family, if you said that, it'd be like, well, go do the dishes. It'd be like, really, Lord Mountbatten? Yeah. Can you go get some more beer out of the downstairs refrigerator? Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But it's a lot of people, and especially that's why he was going to places like San Marino. You go to places where people work in those worlds, and those are the people that are most impressed by...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
know you're all rich well i'm a blue blood well i'm a royal i'm actually royalty yeah there's someone that can come in and beat them at their own game what's more interesting than that so uh the locals said he was a whiz at everything he uh proved especially popular with the women who were very charmed by his royal bloodline and his courtly manners one of the women said he knew everything about everything and he was just fabulous
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So it's not just an act. He's really getting away with it. And he was very, very smart. Sounds like it. So in 1985, tragedy strikes. This is two years after Chris moves into the Sohus' house. Dee Dee's son Jonathan and his wife Linda go missing without a trace.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Chris tells everybody that they told him that they were going to go to Europe. The family got a postcard from France, supposedly from the couple after the disappearance, but its authenticity has been questioned.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
soon after they disappear didi so has disinherited her son who was beloved to her up until that point um the police think that she was convinced that he had abandoned her and after when didi died they found that 180 000 of her estate had been looted her entire state sorry her entire state was worth 180 000 and all of it had been taken oh
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Dungeons and Dragons. I just say that like I mean something by it. Dungeons and Dragons. But we know what we mean. In the late 80s, police pull Christopher Chichester over in Greenwich, Connecticut. He's driving Jonathan Sohus' truck.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
When you get your big, good idea, that's going to freak people out and, and hook people in. And then you try to connect that with kind of believable science or something grounded. It's, it's very difficult to do. So it's like the upside down, right. Is what it was called. Like, but yeah, There was nothing. But the fact that you just kind of entered it through this weird, I mean, spoilers.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Um... The police, he leaves the area before police can interview him. I don't know what that means if he's like, oh, well, thanks, everybody. Thanks for pulling me over. Great to see you. And just drives away. I'm not sure. Or if they meant I come to the neighborhood. Sounds like the neighborhood. Right. It's just weird because if you've got him there and he's driving.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So maybe they just had the information that it was that truck and they didn't put it together till later. Yeah. But I looked it up. Greenwich in the year 2000, Greenwich was the third wealthiest town in Connecticut. So he's just going East Coast. Now he's going to do this on the East Coast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah. So he rents a post office box in Greenwich under the name Christopher C. Crowe. CCC. He loves the C. He does. He literally walked into the Indian Harbor Yacht Club like he owned the place. So this is a rich town that has a yacht club. And he rolled up on in. Here's how he was described. He looked like he walked out of a magazine. He always had his Burberry winter coat.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Burberry umbrella, very fine cotton button down white shirts with CCC monogrammed on the pockets for Christopher Chichester Crow. Always pristine, always perfect.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yep. I do have my button down. K LK shirt on. I'm so hot. Someone else said he's talking to you as if he's smarter, wealthier, more connected, more everything than you, no matter who you are. Fuck you. So he's he's just playing the rich game and beating them at the rich game. Yeah. Because I think Thurston held the third was the richest man on the planet. So if that's who he is, he's right. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So he sleeps with a woman. So basically his inn in Greenwich was this yacht club. He starts sleeping with a woman who ends up getting him this really high-level job in town at a broker-dealer firm. I don't know what that is. I don't either. My eyes were skipping over the part where it got into like finance. But basically a huge finance job. You have to take two tests twice. to do this job.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
One called the series seven and one calls the series 63. There's seven, it's seven hours of questions. Holy shit. And he passed it. What the shit? So he's not, he's a very, very, very intelligent person. So now, you know, the brain that's being applied to conning people, fair, a memorizer, an absorber of personalities and information and the kind of person that will tell you the perfect lie. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
He's Lord Mountbatten's, nephew he's not anybody's son he's there's nothing direct um so all right so he's he stays at this job for two years oh my god but he's super um people don't at first it's interesting that they have this royalty working there after two years they're sick of hearing him talk and it's
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
He did the ultimate wrong move, which was the boss, the guy that hired him, who was the president of the company, wanted to access his own computer. And Chris wouldn't tell him how to do it because he thought, if I'm the only one that knows how to do it and you don't know, I will never get fired. Instead, the guy in charge was like, get the fuck out of here.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And someone else is going to teach me how to get into my computer. Weird. Well, from there, he gets a better job. Oh, my God. So he gets fired from that job, and then he gets hired at a place called Nico. It's another one of these, like, Wall Street jobs. Yeah, Karen, this is not our universe. I'm not interested in it. I don't like it. Nope. I don't care.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But essentially, he does great there, too, for a couple years. But a couple people were on to him—this is all in the documentary— Because he'd ask a question like, have you ever sold one of these? And the guy that he asked the question to is in the documentary who's like, that'd be like asking a dentist, do you know what a bicuspid is? It's one of the basics.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So that guy was like, I was pretty sure something was going on. Yeah. And then, of course, by the end, everyone's just he's bragging and he's, you know, an asshole to everybody. So he gets fired from there. Then he goes to another company, a bigger company. So he gets a better job. Each firing, he just is failing upwards. But this is the job where they finally do a background check, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
If you can walk into it, then why does she have to go into the thing to get into it?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Oh, no, sorry. Two years after he got dismissed from the first place, they finally look him up. They'd run his social security number. And the social security number that he gave was David Berkowitz's The Son of Sam. Shut the fuck up. That is the coolest part. It's amazing. So it's kind of like saying, if you check my shit, go fuck yourself. But no one ever did until after he left.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
yeah okay so holy shit that's cool it's crazy so on this third job someone at the third job finally looks into his background while he still works there and finds out that he is a person of interest in a missing persons case in California how did that guy feel when he saw that I mean probably nervous but stoked yeah excited and then hungry because it was right before lunch who knows
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
um so the greenwich police and the connecticut state police show up at this job but that day christopher chichester no sorry christopher crowe now christopher crowe didn't show up for work that day because he was on to them he knew but he called in to say he needed time off because his parents had been kidnapped in either pakistan or japan oh come on Just say you don't feel well.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Well, and also that's where your lies are getting a bit big. Yeah. Like pick one. Yeah. It's Pakistan. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah. Or you're, yeah, you broke one of your teeth and you're out for a couple days. Your bicuspid. How about your bicuspid? So he disappears from Greenwich, Connecticut. And he reappears in New York City in 1992. And where does he go? Where did John List go when he had to start all over in a new town? Church. Church. Church. Say it with me, church. Church.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
You show up at church with your song and dance. Yeah. And you have a built-in community of people who are going to trust you. Totally. Keep your eyes peeled, churchies. So he rolls up. This is now when he is. I say that as if that's something that's important. This is now when he's become Clark Rockefeller. So he's in New York City and he's introducing himself as a Rockefeller.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Well, but here's the thing. He knows the difference. So he specifies to these people at this church that he is from the Percy Rockefeller side, not John D. John D. is the one. He's crazy rich. Percy still is super rich, but not John D. level. So he he always goes right under. Yeah. You know, he goes in with the claim that's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah. We're still talking millions of dollars. Crazy old American blue blood money. It still would impress people like my mom. He's a Rockefeller. My grandmother used to say like she'd go pick that penny up off the floor. We're not the Rockefeller. Totally. That was like a total grandma saying. Yeah. She also said a lot of racist stuff that I won't repeat. So don't listen to her.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
You know, and it's a valid angle.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
She was a good person at heart. It was just the times. Make America great again. All right. He claimed to have gone to Yale like when he was 14. He had a Yale scarf with the blue stripes. He said he had one of the J-boats from his grandparents, which was a classic 30s sailing yacht. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, don't we all? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I've gone through three episodes in. Okay. Well, when you get to the episode that aired last night. Oh, my God. First of all, I keep falling asleep in front of the TV after watching Night Of and then dreaming about Riz Ahmed all night, which makes me crazy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So basically what he learned is that if you joined private clubs in a big city and they're all like clubs no one's ever even heard of the low dose and stuff like that, where I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm clearly as working class as you can get.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
No, no, we're close. We'll never be asked to. No, they're not going to ask us. I don't think so. But this is where the Vanderbilts and the Whitney's and the Roosevelt's and the Rockefellers, they've all been socializing since the 1800s. So he learns the kind of language of private clubs and those people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And then all of his lies become believable because he's speaking their language, saying the stupid shit that they all say to each other over cucumber sandwiches.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
It's all whispering about cash.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
You got to talk about it. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So... Oh, sorry, I lost my place. And I'm hallucinating from the heat.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
There's nothing you can do. So, oh, I was on the totally wrong page. I tried to do that scrolling thing that I do. All right, so... Okay, so he married in 1995. He marries a woman that he met through St. Thomas Church, this church that he went to. And she was a Harvard MBA who rose to be one of the youngest partners in history at McKinsey. I don't know what that is. Law firm?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
She had a $2 million salary. She was like a legendary businesswoman. Fuck, man. He meets her at church. They hit it off and they get married. He has a way with the ladies. He explains to her that none of his family is going to be at the wedding because there had been an argument and he had disinvited all of them. So he has no family there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But he marries into her family. And they have a child named Ray, which I actually like that name for a girl. Ray. Ray, R-E-I-G-H. Oh, that's cute. He nicknamed her Snooks. Snooks. Which may have been something Thurston Howell III called his wife. Snooks, yeah. He insisted on raising her and educating her himself. Oh. I would love to meet and talk to her. Oh, my God. She's the coolest.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So anyway, they ultimately get divorced and she the wife has to pay him eight hundred thousand dollars in alimony and he won the white there. But she. Sorry, she won the right to raise Ray in London. So in 2008, a court supervised visit in Boston, Rockefeller kidnaps Ray. Oh, no. So she's seven years old. He's meeting up with Ray and the court appointed like social worker, basically.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And he runs up, pushes that woman over, grabs the little girl and jumps into a car and drives away. Oh, no. The social worker actually ran after and grabbed onto the back bumper of the car for like a little bit trying to do something about it. But don't worry. He was he lived for this little girl. He just wanted her in his life. He wasn't going to harm her in any way. I know that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
everyone in this documentary says it like they would never he worshipped her and it and he he she was everything to him and they and he got caught two weeks later okay so the but there was he he had set up a new identity um in baltimore that's where he was going to become chip smith a professional yacht captain and catamaran designer But he got caught immediately. He was in 2009.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
He was convicted and sentenced to four to five years for abducting his daughter and two to three years for the assault on the social worker who did get injured by that SUV driver. That he had waiting. But we'll circle back around now because in 1994, the new owners of the Sohus' house in San Marino were digging to build a new pool. Uh-oh. And they found two bodies.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
That's the biggest kind of crush you can have when you want their DNA.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Deep, deep underneath the ground in the backyard at the Sohus' house. And it was... The family members said the bones matched Jonathan Sohus' general description, but he was adopted. So they couldn't do a family DNA match.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But she's kind of a loser.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But then he finds love in a six-foot redhead. And they're kind of this mismatched couple that are making it happen. And then she thinks he just leaves her.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So forensic evidence showed that the victim, who is Jonathan, had been struck in the head two times with a rounded blunt object, then stabbed six times. Holy shit. His body had been cut into three parts, and the body parts had been put into book bags from the University of Wisconsin. Fuck. And from USC, where Chris...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Clark all these people he had actually sat in on film classes never registered as a student but he used to go to USC and go to classes he just wasn't actually a student and so that circumstantial evidence combined with the fact that he was arrested driving Jonathan's truck in Greenwich basically convicted him of murder sorry there was only one body buried in the backyard they never found Linda Linda
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
That's disgusting. That's a serial killer Valentine. No, that's how I feel about him. I steal that idea from you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Where do you think she is? Well, the police suspect that Clark had an affair with Linda. Oh, no. Because basically he Clark thought he was in with Didi and thought that he was going to get her money and get the house and be in San Marino and like have his life. Yeah. And then Jonathan and Linda were basically what were standing in the way of that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And I think, and he thought, you know, I'll get, this is just this crazy old drunk lady. I'm going to get her to sign everything over to me. And then I'm going to have the life I want. And then Linda and Jonathan are just like, you need to move out of here. And basically that's where it started. So he, the theory is that he tried to break them up as a couple and then he murdered Jonathan. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah, she's dead. Yeah. They just think that he brought the body somewhere else. That's so sad. I believe. Yeah. He was charged with Jonathan's murder. And the trial was in April of 2013. And he was convicted of first degree murder. And he's now in some weird jail, Ironwood Jail in Blythe, California. Wow. Can I see a photo of him? Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Doesn't want kids, so I'll just have one from him with big eyes and like beautiful. You mean after he and I marry and have many of our own?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
It's so funny because when they talk about like that, he's good looking and stuff or that he had a way with the ladies. Nope. Well, let's see. Is he hot? I mean, to each his own. Oh my God, he's like a nerd. Well, and also when you see him talking, it's even worse. He's got no mouth. Because he kind of talks like this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
It's like somebody in a bad mustard commercial where you're like, why would you talk like that?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
yeah like oh no where's his mouth he's just kind of um you know i'm sure he was insecure as a teen sure and all of that plus being really smart you know yeah just made up for i don't see him being a ladies man but good for him it's all in the brains brains brains brains brains brains Brains. We should thank Stephen. Yeah, thank you, Stephen. Our beautiful engineer who gave us microphone stands.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
We usually do it after because stay sexy. Don't get murdered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I recently listened to a podcast about this story. It was like one of those anthology podcasts. It was like a bunch of... It was almost like, here's a bunch of rich crimes or whatever. And then it was this guy is like, he isn't really rich, but it is... So I just recently kind of revisited this and it's just like, God, this is, it's just insane.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So after numerous denied appeals, Clark Rockefeller, quote unquote, was transferred to San Quentin in December of 2016. And so he's there now. He stays busy painting and he's a journalist for the San Quentin News. So with good time credits, he'll be eligible for parole in December of 2029. He'll be 68 years old if he gets paroled then.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And his daughter, Ray, has since changed her name and she lives a private life, which is good for her.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
know each other I would think they do only because aren't the infamous killers like treated slightly differently yeah they're like held separately for some reason or get protection maybe if they might need it I don't know who knows shit I definitely don't know but that's yeah that's that's crazy observation so creepy
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Okay, so this episode was originally titled, as we have said many times, The Fuckword Murder Mystery Show.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yes, we're so quiet and demure. Excuse me, which is what Georgia, she's talking about saying a spoiler without warning and it's like burping without saying excuse me before or after. Which if that's the case, we have burped and burped and burped literally and figuratively all the way through this show. We have never said burp.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I remember people getting mad about that and putting it in like on social media and me kind of in the beginning. They're like, can you please say spoiler alert? And it's just like, yeah, no, like you have to. It's the standing spoiler alert. We're going to ruin it for you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
It's on you. 30 years ago.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Also, I'm like I basically have gone into lockdown until I see Nosferatu. So like that's just that's the life I'm willing to live if I want a totally fresh experience. That's yeah it's on you take some responsibility wait a second there's also Alejandra's suggestion meow meow meow meow which is me doing a theme song for Tweet Corner and it says it's Mimi's theme song as well well you probably
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
just heard it because you just listened to rewind which we fucking appreciate thank you guys for listening it's so nice for you to re-engage and to churn up all of the old stuff and look at it and piece through it with us take what works for you leave the rest like yeah and thanks for being here leave a penny take a penny yeah all of it it's one of those kinds of podcasts let's do it that way so stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye elvis do you want a cookie
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Nancy. Stacey Nancy. Stacey Nancy. It's my favorite actress, Stacey Nancy, from such plays as Hot Fire and Nancy St. Stacey. That's the best stage name of all time. Taking it. Stealing it. My favorite murder with Karen Gilgaro. And Nancy St. Stacey. Oh my God, that's good. I'm so sweaty. Are you looking it up, Stephen? What is it, Stephen? Is the letter P in her first or last name? Penelope.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
uh it's glenn headley glenn headley you said that as if it was on your tongue it was in it was nowhere near glenn headley glenn headley she's such a great actress she is but oh her name stephen ray morris thank you for that but yeah anytime that's um that's like one of those white waspy names i would have never gotten because in my world girls can't be named glenn i've definitely never heard that before yeah
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
That's a family name, I'm sure. I'm sure it is. That's on a crest somewhere. So two thumbs up for The Night Of. Yeah, watch it. We're not talking about Stranger Things anymore.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
I'm going to admit I fell asleep at some point in the later episodes, and I can't remember how it ends.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
That's exactly what he looks like.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Yeah, he looks like if Ben Schwartz got put through a rock and roll machine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
But sorry... She goes back to him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Excuse me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Excuse me. Excuse me. Can I say can I read you my favorite tweet that we've gotten on the My Favorite Murder Twitter? Always. This is Tweet Corner with Karen. Tweet Corner. Welcome. Meow, meow, meow, meow. That's the theme song. Mimi, the unsung cat of the HeartStark household, she sings the theme song to TweetCorner.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Meow, meow, meow, meow. She's totally asleep. Someone on Twitter named Trash Panda IRL. Oh, that's not a real person. Read what her name is. Oh, Tween Sensation. Tween Sensation is her handle. Trash Panda IRL is her, I don't know, account name. I don't know. Trash Panda. And on her Twitter account, sorry, but I just noticed this, her header picture is,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
is a picture of barb and it says in memory of barb see you on the other side that's incredible illustration of barb from stranger things hell yeah trash panda the best way to bring it all around so she tweeted at us and said my dad keeps calling your show the fuck word murder mystery show because he can't remember the name and i cannot stop laughing at that say it again
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
My dad keeps calling your show the fuck word mystery murder mystery show because he can't remember the name. That is so. First of all, I can't. If my dad heard a podcast where girls were saying the F word, he would pull the stereo out of the car and throw it on the highway. I swear, if my dad ever hears this, he's going to call me with such a stern tone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And so I love the fact that Trash Panda IRL's dad is even listening to it at all. I love him. I love him. He sounds like my dad. And I think we might need to change the name of this podcast to the Fuckword Murder Mystery Show.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Hey, Liz, you fight the good fight. You get in there, you do your fucking chemo or however you're taking care of this business and get it taken care of and get it out of you. Yeah. And many years of this stupid bullshit to come. Yeah. Wait, the podcast or cancer? No, none of that. Only the podcast. And then general fun things in life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And you're going to have a great perspective on life. Totally. I actually know many cancer survivors. And the cool part about it is once you get through that, all that bullshit of like, that girl took my brush and now I'm going to try to ruin it. You don't do that shit anymore because you're like... You're like, oh, I understand what loss is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And I understand the gift of life that we have right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Sorry, we curse. Stay strong. We love you. We're thinking of you. Oh, we're back. Thank you, Tween Sensation and your dad for that amazing title suggestion.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
The kids are asleep. You better believe I'm making you a logo. It was the best. It's so good. It looks exactly like it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Maybe it was the newness of the style. And then it truly has been on for seasons and seasons. Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Winona Ryder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
Somebody like that, a young girl with a shaved head who looks like she's in a daze with a bloody nose. Boom, I'm in. Yeah, what is this? I'm hooked. What happened to her? Yeah. All right, well, it's time to get into... Yeah. Oh, God. I know. This is kind of an epic true crime story because it is connected to another true crime story, which is like, those are very rare and horrifying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
And this one is one of the worst. So let's listen to Georgia tell the story of the Yosemite Park killer, Carrie Stainer. I think you're first this week. Am I first? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
You see, every Wednesday we release one of our old shows, but there's a twist. We add all new commentary, updates, insights, everything, the lives we've led, the people we are, the people we've become, the whole story. We give it to you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show
So awful. And this was one of our earliest episodes. We were trying to remember the name of the made-for-TV movie, which is called I Know My Name is Stephen. Yes. And... We we talked about it for way too long. And we're still getting people that are tweeting at us and sending us emails saying it was called. I know my name is Stephen. It's like that happened six months ago.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We still have that P.O. box. And luckily, I don't pick up that mail anymore, if you can believe it. So feel free to go and hang out at the P.O. box. But also send us whatever the fuck you feel like sending us. We get wedding invites. We've gotten maple syrup. We've gotten hot dog earrings, paintings of Stephen. So amazing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like, I have a wall full of paintings of my cats, like, in my office right now. It's just my favorite thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, the explanation I had to give to the guy at the post office to get My Favorite Murder, like, listed. He looked at me very strangely and I had to, you know, get my dimples going to be like, everything's okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
All right. So this is when I first share my grandma Molly's saying bigger dummies than you, which makes me so happy. I was just in an episode of the therapy podcast, Your Mental Breakdown. And I talk about this saying specifically and how much it means to me that it's become part of our lore because it's just like memorializes my grandma. And I love that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And they've accomplished everything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
This isn't the same, but my friend Crystal is a Pilates instructor and I had like this toenail surgery mishap. And, you know, I love my feet. They're so cute. And I was like bitching to her about how my toe is ruined. And she goes, Georgia, have you not seen other people's feet? I see people's feet all the time. She's a plies instructor. I promise yours are still like on top.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And I just stopped caring about the toe thing. Like it really helped me. I forgot that other people have hideous feet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And so even mine, I mean, she really did it for me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. Shame thrives in the shadows, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That's what Brene Brown says. So fucking scream that shit to the ceiling.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And let your friends and your grandma talk you down. So, Karen, this is when you tell your, like, legit, classic, I mean, awful hometown. A true hometown of mine. A true hometown. I mean, I don't know why, like, re-listening and remembering that you worked with Pauly Class's mother, I completely forgot that. I mean, this is such a hometown for you. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
blah blah blah you know 90s attitude that we came up with and then it turned into like this this is real these are human stories yeah and the fact that like for a lot of us these stories have stuck with us in a way that we're not allowed to talk about because we're not involved and we're not You know, it is the victim's story. It is their family. We're not that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We're not trying to say that, like, you know, boohoo us. But, like, they've stuck with us and in our heart in a way that we've never been able to get out because people don't talk about this. And I feel like we've given people a platform to talk about it and still acknowledge that they care about it, even though they're not directly involved.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Hey, do you want a podcast? Hey. Hey. Hi. We need to wait. Start this and end this. That's like... That's clean.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save. Then you can ask them to negotiate for you. They'll deal with customer service.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Instead, it's just me laying down on the love seat. You leaning back on the couch.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Do you want me to go first?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, I like sometimes when you will like pick a part of that story or pick, you know, you don't have to tell him from start to finish, but like, you know, the co-ed murders that he did. Yeah. Like if you pick a thing from it or how Richard Ramirez got caught, I think that was an amazing story on its own.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, girl.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Totally. And it's before the Internet. So you don't really experience. I mean, now we can read about other crimes in other cities ad nauseum.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And I'm leaning on this love seat like Mrs. Roper would on a fucking... If Mrs. Roper went and got some scissors and cut her caftan in half.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. It was just country. That just seems like I can't imagine being that far. Like as someone who grew up literally with like shared walls with other apartments. Oh, yeah. I just can't even imagine living in that much space.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I don't even know what that looks like. I have never seen the stars like that unless I'm camping or something.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, people who aren't in LA or New York or a big city don't... There's no stars because there's so much light pollution that you just can't see.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It wasn't in the middle of nowhere.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No. It seems like such a like what everyone says, like you didn't lock your door. But like, I don't think you did. Right. Until like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Our parents didn't do it because they came from a time when you didn't have to. We do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Wait, so how old was she?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Man, fucking credit gives me so much stress. I know. Like I won't. It's so hard to make sure that everyone gets credit and you don't want them to hate you and stop making shit. That's right. Well, here's the thing. You have... a job that you go to every day. You have dogs, which everyone knows is very stressful. I have no day job. I mean, I work from time to time. You do stuff though. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Holy shit. That's like, that's so crazy that when there's this like, and I've noticed this with hometown murders that are all like my brother's best friend from college or it's always someone, you know. It's not just the hometown murder, the thing that happened in their hometown. It's like a thing that could have been them or they knew the people or they affected them somehow. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So interesting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Anyway. I'm not shaming you. It's just like it's such an interesting fact of your life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I have extreme anxiety, which causes me to constantly do things.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's even scarier that it's just like not... Other circumstances, like she was alone or, you know, her parents weren't home or something.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's just like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Which is great. Mine causes me to constantly not do things. That's interesting. Because you're like, I can't do this right. I'm not even, this is going to suck. I won't do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Wow. Because I don't have perfectionism. So I'm like, let's fucking try this and see what happens. And then we'll learn from our mistakes and we can quit it if it sucks. That's the way to be. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like if you do everything like at a B plus, you know, and no one else does anything else because they think they're going to get a B. Then that rounds up to an A. Then I get a fucking A. Hell yeah, girl. You know what I mean?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. So they... Which is understandable because then he knows where she lives. That's exactly right. The minute he gets let out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Or were you getting that? I thought that's what you meant.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I have to rely on other people's perfection anxieties to just deliver mine. God, that's really smart. Did I tell you? My grandma's saying, bigger dummies than you. Yeah, that's right. You know? It's so good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like every summer. No, I'm picturing places in Orange County and I can make sense of that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
He would think that if he had gotten them. Sorry, am I interrupting you? No, not at all. You would think that if he had not killed her before the cops came, he would have wanted them to know that so he can like taunt them almost. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Look at Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman's dad.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You know, I went out of his mind.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Just try it. And if it sucks, you can just walk away from it. Girl, I'm about it. I mean, you were right about this podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I mean, I want to say good, but at the same time, it's you can't. Can't say that. There's no... Yeah, there's no... Clean conscience. There's no good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
What's it called? I don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Sometimes I get really mad at lawyers. I don't want to start the whole shit talking that we do about cops sometimes because I know it's complicated and you promise to do these things and uphold the law. But sometimes I'm just like... I just don't know how they live with themselves sometimes when they're defending someone who's a monster. Exactly. And doing the best that they can to get them off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I guess it's not. I guess you just want to get them a fair trial.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, Karen, you started crying and I don't think you've ever done that in any of them people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So I feel like it's important and I don't think you should feel bad at all.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Let's just do one and see how it goes. That's my whole motto. Yeah. Let's do one and see how it goes. It's very smart. And now everyone's making these awesome crafts, which, by the way, I gave my fucking P.O. box on the Facebook. Is that a mistake? No, it's a P.O.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
for georgia moses yeah i bet you can find his p.o box pretty easily is that terrible not at all thank you oh georgia moses i'm sorry yeah but i'm all yeah that's fucking bummer i know around i know how do you feel now you know what i'm glad i'm glad i said it do you feel cleansed a little no okay
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. It's a very normal part of life, which I think the reason we're doing that is because we see that and we're freaked out by it and fascinated by it. And we could have a million episodes and not get to half the everyday murders that just happen all the time that you haven't heard about or you haven't, didn't know the details. For real. It's just... Yeah. Yeah. People get fucking murdered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Okay, we're back. I mean, that like close call where he gets... Like, you know, his car gets searched by the cops. There's just no way they could have known. But she wants so bad for her to have been discovered at that moment. It's just like such a fucking tragic detail.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
10 grand to fucking polyclass.org, the Poly Class Foundation.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So should we also donate to the Black and Missing Foundation? Yes. Great idea. Beautiful. Let's go. It's blackandmissinginc.com. So 10 grand to them immediately.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
All right, let's move on to more fucking horribleness, shall we?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm just I don't know why I'm just going to always go with Vince. So anyone who's thinking about beating me up, I'm going my big, tall husband. Who will probably do nothing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
What's your murder? So my murder, okay, like a month and a half or two months ago, we got an email inviting us to the screening of a new documentary called The Witness. And it's a documentary about Kitty Genovese. That's how you say it, right? Kitty Genovese. Um, And we couldn't go. And so the guy sent us a screener to watch. He did? Yeah. You didn't see that? There's like a password and shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, yeah. I'm an email skimmer. Oh, okay. Constantly in trouble for it. That's hilarious. I like read into every single word on the email. I'm like, what do they mean by that?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. I mean, and I was kind of like, OK, whatever about it. This was like a while ago. And finally, I started watching it last night. And it's really fucking good. Oh, awesome. Yeah. The narrator, the guy who's kind of the in the in the shit of it, he's like the dude who you follow is Kitty Genevieve's little brother. Wow. Yeah. In real life. Yes. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
She's the girl that basically everyone is like she was being stabbed. There were 38 witnesses from an apartment building across the street and no one did anything. And it kind of started the whole like the bystander effect bystander effect where nobody you know, the more people watching something, the less likely anyone's going to interview Veen. And it had it had all these like.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
these effects on New York and what's happening to the city and people are horrible. And, you know, this kind of, this kind of awful thing of, of nobody helping. Yeah. It's in like every psych one-on-one. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So, yeah. And so I don't want to spoil the movie cause I think everyone should go see it, but yeah, I'm going to talk about the murder so that people remember what it is and also some of the interesting points from this movie without spoiling it because I don't think I could do that. It's really fucking good. So on March 13th, she finishes her shift at a sports bar.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
She's a bartender and she gets home and parks her car at three in the morning at like a side parking lot, which sucks. And I feel like she immediately saw her killer. Winston Mosley was like hanging out, clearly looking for a victim. Um, so she gets home at like three 15. She parks. Um, it's about a hundred feet from her apartment door.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. So she's walking towards her building. He starts to approach her. She immediately starts running, like knowing something's going on. He overtakes her and stabs her twice right there on the sidewalk, right across the street from this huge apartment building. And so the story is that people came out and looked and no one fucking did anything. But in reality... It's so much murkier than that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
What it sounds like is that most people thought it was a lover's quarrel. They look out the window, but she yells, oh my God, he stabbed me, help me. But most people didn't hear her cry out in the beginning. Most people thought it was a bar brawl or a lover's quarrel. And by the time a lot of people looked out, he was running away. And so she walks around the corner stumbling to her apartment.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And so people see her go around the corner and that's all they saw. And in reality, people did call the police. But back then you just called, you didn't call, there was no 911. And this is part of the reason there is a 911 now is because they needed, they need, you know, you can't just call the police precinct and get people there. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Um, the earliest calls to the police are unclear and weren't given a high priority by them. And it looks like some of them might not have even been logged. Um, one witness said his father called the police after the initial attack and reported that a woman was beat up, but got up and was staggering around. So no one knew she was actually being stabbed. Hmm.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like what? I feel like if I heard that, like this girl who has a true crime podcast put her P.O. box up and got killed. What a fucking idiot. Why did she do that? That's what I would think.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So he fucking runs away when someone yells out the window, let that girl alone. You hear him in the documentary and he's like this salty old man. He's amazing. Let that girl alone. He runs away. She staggers off. He mostly leaves, comes back when he realizes that no cops are coming and finds her again, which is the most fucking terrifying part of this whole story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So you can't, if someone had come out to see how she was and there was a doorman in the apartment building right across the street, if someone had come out you know, maybe they could have helped her, brought her into their house.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Instead, she goes into the doorway of her apartment building, which has one, it's got one outside door and then a locked inside door and she's dying and so she can't get her keys or unlock that door. He fucking comes back and finds her in the stairwell. Just like a fucking deer that had been
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
you know and stabs her more stabs her more they don't mention I haven't finished the documentary yet and they don't mention this and maybe it's just because he can't fucking handle it which is fair but I read that he raped her After he stabbed her? After he, well, she was dying. He raped her. I don't know if they're going to mention in the documentary.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm sure they will because it's a huge part of it. But I heard that in the documentary, it says that he attempted to. So I wonder, and the brother, it's so interesting because he's like, I've never been able to deal with, I haven't known the details of this until recently because I just couldn't handle it. And it seems like it was a really tight-knit family.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I mean, they didn't... I guess the family didn't even go to the trial because they just couldn't even handle it. I bet. You know? Which is like... What's great about this documentary is it feels like this guy is kind of like, the more I know, the closer I'll be to her and I need to find out what happened and know the truth because...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
The truth of that crime now is what everyone wrote about it and what people talk about it in sociology classes and shit, which is turning out not to be true. So, you know, the New York Times article said that it was 38 people who witnessed it and didn't know anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
But the upstairs neighbor looks out into the stairwell, sees her being stabbed, closes the door and calls his girlfriend who said, don't get involved. But then later calls the police. So like, dude, you should feel like shit, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Is it just the lover's quarrel? Do you really want to get involved? It's like... Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Not that I wouldn't get involved in the, not that the woman deserves it because it's a lover's girl, but.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, here's a really interesting, one of the parts of the documentary that I loved is he's interviewing the kid who, And the family never knew that their next door neighbor, who was Kitty's best, like one of her good friends, the soonest she found out what happened, put on her house coat, ran out and held Kitty. until she, until the ambulance came.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And the brother in the documentary was like, I wish my, why didn't my family know that? It would have meant so much to us to know that her friend was there while she died. And so the son is being interviewed, the friend's son, and is like, here's the thing about this neighborhood. A lot of people were Holocaust survivors. And a lot of people in that building were Holocaust survivors. And you don't
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
you don't intervene. You don't stick your nose. You don't, you know, get involved in what might happen within cops and police interrogations. You just fucking leave it alone, which is such a sad thing that you would never think about. Right. You know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. It's, it's, it's gross, but it's hard to, it's hard to argue. So Mosley gets gets caught a couple days later when he's burglarizing a house. He had no prior criminal record and he was married with three children and he got up the night of out of bed where his wife was sleeping to go find a woman to kill.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. But he had actually killed two other women and he had never been caught. And he did a bunch of burglaries as well. Oh, so he is like a burgeoning serial killer. Totally. Absolutely. Let's see. He confessed to 30 to 40 burglaries. A psychiatric examination suggested he was a necrophile. Fuck. And then he said something. He said that his motive was simply he wanted to kill a woman.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That was his motive.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
He looks a lot like Prince and Richard Little had a baby. Richard Little? I'm not Richard Little. Little Richard.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
weird picturing seeing that face standing above me stabbing me because what is the deal what is the deal so all right he confesses um let's see he's a fucking necro so in the 70s he okay so while in prison in the 70s he gets a bachelor of arts in sociology sociology Which is insane. Oh, good. You're not using that for good, dude.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You're using that to understand how you can take advantage of people better.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yep.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And then during his, he was eligible for parole in 84, which is like, what the fuck? And at his first parole hearing, he told the parole board that the notoriety he faced due to his crimes made him a victim stating. Yes, he's the victim for sure. For a victim outside, it's a one time or one hour or one minute affair. But for the person who's caught, it's forever. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. Much sadder. Oh, you get a minute of murder and I have to live the rest of my life in jail.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
shitty behavior. You're correct. And that's why you don't fucking not. That's not the only reason, but that's one of the reasons you don't murder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Have you known people like that where you're like, how do you not see your role in this thing?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's so weird to see those people. And like, I mean, it almost feels like an argument or the blame thing is like a game to win. Yes. And so as soon as they can get you to not blame them. And to take it all on you, which I've fucking done many times with people, they win.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Are you scared you're going to like, if you read that, you'll just like look for that in everyone? I mean, I guess everyone has those traits.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Can I put it in a comic book so Vince doesn't see me reading that and think I'm like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Don't kill Justin Timberlake, you guys.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm thinking it's, it's so easy to like put some of that on people I know. Oh,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Fuck, dude. Read it. I think I over I over accept responsibility for things because I don't I'm trying so hard not to. not to let myself get away with shit?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
There is a certain something about like, even being like, I feel so bad about this thing that happened where it's like, nobody... Why are you making it about you? Right. Not you specifically, but like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I mean, what's a conscience?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Do you feel it?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No one diabolically listens to a podcast. People only like at least medium joyfully listen to podcasts. No one's like... Now we're baiting people. Now people are like, I'm going to show her. There's no like Mr. Burns-esque podcast listeners sitting at his desk going, you know, with his fingers. No. He doesn't listen. Marge listens. Simpsons. This podcast always comes back to the Simpsons.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Hi, welcome. Hi, my therapist was right about you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, mom. Okay. What did I want? What was my... Let's see here. Holocaust survivors.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
None of the witnesses observed the attacks in their entirety because of the layout of the complex was weird. And it seems like she was attacked in two different places. Yeah. And as far as they knew, he ran away and she walked away and they couldn't see her anymore. And she was staggering. I mean, how do you... She only got stabbed twice.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So how do you know you couldn't even see that she was stabbed by the time you run to the window? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So that was... Oh, I see. The initial attack. The witnessable part was two stabs. Right. The initial, like when everyone saw it was two. And then he had a private moment, you know, private in the doorway. So no one actually saw that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. And I just was like, okay. I didn't even watch it. You didn't? No, I'm sure I watched it because I watched every episode of that show. There's also a girls episode where they talk about it. Oh, really? One of the guys is in a play where they reenact the whole thing. But of course, there's a lot of girls drama going on, so they don't really talk about it. But... I love that show.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm not making fun of it. Let's see. So it became known as the bystander effect or the Genevieve's syndrome. But people are now questioning what really fucking happened. So, okay. So everyone go to YouTube and you can watch the trailer. It's called The Witness. And if you go to thewitness-film.com, it's in the theaters right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
If you have an art house theater in your town and it's going to be in a lot of small towns. So it's not like random and then hopefully it'll be on Hulu or something at some point. Yeah. And then it's unlikely that she was able to scream at any point after she got stabbed the first time anyways, because they stabbed her. Because they stabbed her in the lungs.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
That's right. Yeah, they punctured her. He punctured her lung. So after that second stabbing, she probably wasn't screaming anyways. So it's not like a bunch of people ignored that as well. This whole murder is like worst case scenario. Fucking worst. Like she would have died from the initial attack, it sounds like, because he punctured a lung and she died from asphyxiation. But...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And so if the cops had been called and at that point they took her to the hospital and she died, it wouldn't have been the same thing as if he fucking ran away and came back and was like, nobody cares. Yeah. I can continue this. Yeah. That's so awful to think about. Yeah, it's dark. Yeah. But the universal emergency phone number was created after this incident.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And yeah, today it's used all the time. But so yeah, The Witness is the movie. It's by James Solomon. And it's a really fat, like just watch that. I feel like anyone who listens to this podcast will watch this trailer and definitely want to see it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's really good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
heard it that's what i love about it so i hope it's not boring that i did this this case but i just thought it was the stuff that you'd never you never knew about it and i really was it's one of those cases where i was like i've heard that a million times i know about it you fucking totally don't and then to see it from the brother's point of view who also is like kind of a badass dude himself yeah where it happened in the bronx in queens queens yeah people from queens are kind of the greatest
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Lisa totally is a fan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Oh, yeah. You listen to it just for the interviews he does with the people who live around there. They're incredible. The accents are incredible. There's a lot of, there's like a beautiful illustrated element of it that they use as like interstitials or to show what was actually going on with this gorgeous illustration. Wow. Yeah. Very simple line drawings, but it's super beautiful. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Wasn't one like The Downstairs Neighbor might have done it?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Already need a fucking shower.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like the witnesses, man, we got to have a double feature. Yes. I wonder if we could host a double feature. We should email this guy. I feel like we want to do this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I always think of myself as such a lazy person and I'm like constantly berating myself for being lazy. And then like, sometimes I'll have to write a list of things I'm doing to just be like, just look at this store chat.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I was like, why don't we do this? Why don't we do that? We can do this. We can do that. And like sometimes, like when you just got here, you were like, you kind of had a talk, like we had a conversation about something. regarding the podcast and you kind of had to like talk me down from it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Take a deep breath. It's happened my entire life. Yeah. Like I, I have to yawn. I yawn a lot because I have to catch my breath. And so I get so worked up. That's funny that you've noticed it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's so like I've gotten up in the middle of the night and like wrote a blog post about how it like it's you really feel like you're drowning and you can't breathe.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And it's. It's just anxiety. And then that perpetuates itself and you just still can't breathe. And anyways.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Come on, man. Bless their souls. I got an email from a girl that I know today who was like, I just started a new job and I overheard my coworkers saying, oh my God, I'm obsessed with this new podcast. And they were like, me too. And they were like, what's it called? My Favorite Murder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And my friend Kelsey was like, I was trying, I wanted to tell them so bad and brag that I knew you, but it's a new job. And I was like, tell them, look at her raise.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Well, first of all, I love the detail, and I think these are the things we look for now in stories, that this case created the universal emergency phone number, 911, which is just fascinating to me. Okay, this is early on, episode 24. I did not mention when my story took place. When? Yeah. That little detail.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You know what? Smarter people than me have covered this and you should go read and listen to their shit. I am covering their coverage. And I forgot to mention that this took place in 1964.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
So ridiculous. And also the man who killed Kitty Genovese, Winston Mosley, died in a New York prison in 2016. So fucking recently. He served almost 52 years and was one of the state's longest serving inmates. And it's so terrifying when you when I was telling the story that he was trying to get parole and you're just like, absolutely fucking not, you know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And the word for is F-O-U-R. You know, it's not visual.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We were very tired and working very hard and very surprised that anyone was listening to this fucking podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
All right. So let's see. We could call this episode Obstetrician of T-Shirts because I don't even fucking know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I like that. Plans and schemes. It's so funny. Like way back then, we were like, maybe we'll do video. And it's like, now we have to do video. It's like, it's like required in today's world, today's modern world.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
We're on YouTube and TikTok and fucking Instagram and fucking all the shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, like when this episode recorded, I was 36 and I was like, not yet, video. No, let me be 40 fucking four before I have to be on video. Let's wait a minute.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I want to watch it. I haven't seen it yet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You know, I want to wait until this filler migrates before I get fucking lit from below and fucking on camera. Let's just wait until it's in the wrong places.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It all feels like flashlights under the chin when you're on video.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No one gives a shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No. And I'm learning contouring finally. So I think I'm going to be fine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
England. OK. Yes. Yes. And no. Okay. It just depends. Sometimes I, sometimes. What do you need? What? What do you need? Oh, you know what I loved is the one, I'm not going to remember the name, the one with the woman. Oh yes, that one.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
No, she was a police detective and she was incredible. Oh, Happy Valley.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yes. I loved Happy Valley. And then there was another one. And I was just like, I can't with this. I don't care.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah. I guess it was like about her. I could legitimately see why she was fucked up and sad. Yes. And it wasn't like, just go get a fucking coffee and cheer up. Yes. Or like, you don't have to talk like this. I didn't do those like dramatic bullshit things like. talking in dramatic voices and words that no one would ever fucking say.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Not that I can understand everything that was said on that show because it's just some thick accents. But you watched the second season, right? I don't know if I finished it yet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It's called who to stock at a PO box besides Georgia. Let's talk about it. Michael C. Hall is a good person to stop. Michael C. Hall, for example. I know where he fucking lives, you guys. If you're thinking of killing me at my PO box, let me know and I'll give you Michael C. Hall's address.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I can't wait to see what, like what we start getting though. Like as much as I'm scared of dying, I'm also excited for like presents. For living. Yeah. Yeah. Someone, I don't even want to talk about it yet, but someone's made us lipsticks. What? Like our flavor of lips, like a Karen Kilgariff lipstick and a Georgia Hart lipstick.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Can you even fucking go? I couldn't be more excited. I know. I don't want to talk about it yet because I just want to open the box with you. Should I open before and present to you like I did? However you like to do it. Or should I, should we open the stuff together?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah, we can do either way. I guess I don't know. We can do anything. It might be fun to open it together. Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Like what?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Okay, I'll open it first.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Go hazmat with it. Or we should be open it all on video and post that somewhere. Yeah. Make people pay to watch us open mail. That's a good idea. I mean, why not? Pay to open free shit. Come on. Yeah, we should do it on video.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Plans and schemes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
I'm just a... Conduit? Fueled by too much coffee and Adderall. And the Invisalign. And the Invisalign. I just took out of my mouth because I realized how awful it sounded.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It is. I feel like. And then there's like a string of saliva attached to it. It's real sexy. It's fun. Yeah. So you know what? Someone recently emailed me and said, I listened to your podcast and thank you for talking about depression and anxiety. I have it and I've never done anything. Where do I even start to find a therapist?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
And I was like, so stoked this person wrote me because to me, it's like fucking second nature. I've been doing this since I was 12. So I'm just like, what? And so I gave them psychology today has a great, a great... page, you put in your zip code and it tells you the psychologist in your area. That's how I found my therapist. Yeah. I found most of my therapists through that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
They do have photos on thing. And I've definitely been like, that's it. She looks like a hippie.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
She doesn't know what it's like to just wear all this makeup all the time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Also, Psychology Today is the freaking best magazine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
You should get it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
It is a painful process. Today, we're recapping painfully episode 24, which we named and 20 justice for all. Yeah. Fucking classic. This came out on Thursday, July 7th, 2016. So get ready to defy the laws of space and time because now we're all going to be day one listeners. Okay, let's do it. Let's listen to the intro of episode 24. You want a podcast? Do you want to start a podcast?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All
Personally, yes. My apologies to Olivia Colman. You are a fucking, the queen of queens, literally, and I'm fucking obsessed with you. British Procedurals, yes. It's still Karen's thing, but I support. I'm forcing your hand on that one. You're just being nice. A little bit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Okay, so today we're recapping episode 28, which we named, I 28 His Liver with Some Fava Beans and a Nice Cat. Come on. That has stood the test of time. I agree.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. You got to check your sources, even if the source is like... you know, a major fucking news outlet because, like, where did they get that information from?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Right. Exactly. And then we also talk about the Chandra Levy case and the fact that her, which you covered before in an earlier episode, and that her alleged killer has been released from jail based on new evidence. Oh, you covered it in episode 16 of MFM and Rewind. So listen to that if you want to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. Yeah, I feel fine about the fact that I listen to it. I haven't done it in a while. There were times where like every couple weeks I would listen to the beginning just to be like fact check, like make sure that are we are we doing the right thing? You know, I would listen to my story if it was a story that was really like one of them that I was nervous about getting right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I'd listen and just like reassure myself that it sounded not stupid.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
But more and more I'm not able to listen anymore. to my own fucking voice anymore.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Put the mirror away. Yeah. Move on with your life. Yeah. Do your best.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
okay so now we're going to get into georgia's story this is the durham family murders are you first this week you're first my first are you first uh i think yeah you did um what's your face last week and i think you went first i also don't care who goes first honestly at this moment i have absolutely no idea what happened last week okay you did um little baby karen didn't you
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
what is wrong with us is there a gas leak in my apartment we can't be that stuck up if we can't remember i don't think it's us being stuck up i think it's we have terrible memories yeah i think there's a gas leak in my apartment probably i definitely have a terrible memory any issue so do you want me to go first you want to go first um you go first okay i'm excited about this one because it's fucked up and i also really like finding ones that you don't know and i didn't know i found one that i didn't know purposely where'd you find it read it
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Huzzah. Let's listen to the intro of episode 28. Karen, hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. You pointed at me to talk first tonight. I wanted you to do the, I did it last time, trying to make a start. Oh, hey, this, oh, fuck, I gotta turn my phone off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I might have found like a link on the Facebook page as you do and then just went crazy. Oh, okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Well, I did what I always do and I go into the hometown. I go into our email and look up and like type to find if anyone has ever emailed us about it just so I can add that information in and no one has ever emailed us about this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Who knows where I found it. Okay, this is the Durham family murders. Durham family. Durham. Okay. All right, I'm going to start with the murders. So on February 3rd, 1972, it's a stormy, snowy night in Boone, North Carolina.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And the bodies of Bryce Durham, 51, his wife, Virginia, 44, and their son, Bobby Joe, who was 18, were found crowded side by side, leaning across and into a filled bathtub with their heads under the water, submerged. There's a fucking photo. No. The autopsy established that though rope burns were evident on the necks of all three of the family members...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
The father and son were alive when their heads were forced underwater. Wow, this really just kicked it off, didn't it? I don't know why I started with the fucked up part, but here we go. Well, no, no. I mean, look, you got to hook them in. Because the rest of the story I find amazing, and you'll see why.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
So Virginia had been strangled to death before being plunged headfirst into the tub, but for some reason they still put her in there, or whoever it was. The bodies of Bryce and Virginia also exhibited blunt force trauma. Bryce had a skull fracture and Virginia's nose had been bloodied before her death. and none of the corpses bore defensive wounds. So then I wrote, whodunit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Just typing away in your typewriter. Whodunit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
So Bryce, the father, owned a local successful car dealership, and Bobby Joe was a college student nearby. The Durhams, all three of them, came home together from the car dealership And it was a crazy stormy night. It was super snowy. It was like getting worse and worse. And a neighbor saw that they came home around 9 p.m. So cut to 10 p.m. I wrote. In case I forget. Yep.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Allegedly, the son... Okay, so there's another kid. There's a daughter, Ginny Durham Hall. She was 19. And she lived with her husband, Troy Hall, a little ways away in a trailer. So allegedly, the son-in-law, Troy, arrived home at the trailer and... where he met Ginny and he claimed he spent the entire day at the library from like 5 p.m. till he got home.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
He says he came home to watch the Winter Olympics and they turned the TV on at 10 o'clock and then the TV was on the fritz. So they put on music instead, they say. Then around 10.15, he answers a call at their home. He says that the call was from Virginia, his mother-in-law, and that she was whispering that three men were assaulting the family. And then the line abruptly went dead.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
He claimed he tried to call back the home, but it was busy. So he asked his wife, would your mom play a trick on us? And they kind of thought it was a prank, which is a real fucking funny prank. Mm-hmm. So worried, they decided to check in on the family. Didn't call the cops. Their car wouldn't start, even though he had only been in it like 15 to 20 minutes before.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And they asked the neighbor, Cecil Smart, to drive them. Cecil Small is what I meant. Cecil Small. Small, who's now deceased, was a private investigator. And he drove the couple out to the house. Side note. Cecil was also supposedly at the scene of the Kennedy assassination. What?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It's a telemarketer. Do you mind if I take this?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
According to him, he was passing by the end of the motorcade and he saw a Hispanic man in the crowd with a poorly concealed scoped rifle. He was driven off course by the motorcade and came to an unfamiliar area. So he pulled over in front of the school book depository to ask for directions. And a passerby was heading in the very same direction that he intended to travel.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And thus offered the calm, neatly dressed stranger arrived. And this man, Cecil avowed to his dying day, was Lee Harvey Oswald. Cecil the liar. Cecil's...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. I give them all my social security number and everything over the podcast. Just record it all. Welcome to My Favorite Murderer. This is basically what the podcast is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
But you can also prove that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it. Didn't do it. Yeah. And now that I'm thinking about it. And you're blaming a Hispanic man. Okay. I just put this together and I wasn't going to add this in because I think it's
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
in poor taste but troy says that virginia says that three black men black men yes we're attacking her and i mean i'm sorry but there's a certain from like 1969 yeah but beef and before that's all anyone ever said yeah i think from the 80s yeah you're right it's now you blame it on People do that all the time. Yeah. So I'm kind of putting those things together now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
So they get to the home almost an hour after the panicked call. But they couldn't get up the hill to the home because of the snow. So they left Ginny in the car. And they said, stay here. We're going to run up there. And supposedly they thought three men were in the house, maybe not anymore, attacking. And they left her in the car at the bottom of the hill. That makes no sense. No. Right? No.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Also, I don't like three men. That's rare that that's the actual situation. Right. But how would three people, two of him were like able-bodied men able to be overpowered? without any defensive wounds. It couldn't have been one person unless, you know, some people just comply when there's a gun in their face. Yes. A lot of people do. Yeah. Even though it's the smart thing to do. Right. All right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
So they get up the hill, they get to the house. They entered the home through a broken garage door where they found the place ransacked and the water was still running in the tub that was full of the family. They got, they, they skedaddled, I said. Yeah. which I spelled right, which is weird, and jumped into the car intending to drive off, still not having called the police.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
The car was stuck, so they made it to a neighbor's and they finally called the police. So police suggested the ransacked house seemed like a stage robbery, which I'm wondering, like you hear that all the time. Are they, I want to know if they're ever wrong about that. That it really was ransacked in sincerity.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I feel like there can't be that much, that huge of a difference between a ransacked because it's being burglarized
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Like furniture thrown. Yes. That doesn't need it because there, there's photos of the house that's ransacked and it's like, there's an, there's an Ottoman like thrown onto the couch. Yeah. That there's no, there's no reason I've done that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Can I start out real quick, just by plugging, just for the skippers who skip to the stories, don't miss this. Don't miss this. We have new motherfucking shirts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Why would you stand around throwing shit? Well, here's the fucked up thing about this that proves they're probably right is that there was an envelope full of cash sitting like out on one of the dining room chairs and in the photo of the I'm saying you can see it. They had brought it home because they couldn't make it to the bank after. So it was just sitting there? So it was just sitting there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It wasn't taken.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No. It was a fake. I believe it was a fake ransacking, but I'm just wondering. You hear that all the time. Oh, yeah. I wish we could look at photos. I wish like how the 911 call we wanted to do where like we listen to two that are real and one that isn't.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. That's one that wouldn't give you nightmares.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Can any detectives out there please send us some crime scene photos? Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Stephen wants the Coke. Stephen hates Coke. So they say it seemed like a staged robbery. There was an envelope full of cash and nothing much of value had been taken. And shortly after, the car that the Derms had at the house, which was from the car dealership, was found in an embankment and it seemed like it had been placed there rather than crashed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And in the back was like a pillowcase full of like some silver, you know, some fucking silver. Nothing that... Like utensils? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So something a Rube robber might take. Right. So, I mean, clearly my, clearly the son-in-law, okay, here's the fucking twist. Okay. 40 years later, it's still unsolved. What? Despite all that evidence that clearly points at the son-in-law.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
But what, do they have like motive that the son-in-law? The son-in-law has never been a suspect. Oh. And he's a lawyer now. So, all right. Oh. Here's what I think happened. I think, and Ginny was the sole inheritor, inherited a quarter of a million dollars. Oh, shit. In 70s money.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I love those conversions when they're like, this is how much it is in today's money.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I believed you in the way that when I have to ask you about Roman numerals, you can say anything to me and I would believe you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Okay. So I'll always tell you when I'm lying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
OK, so I just think like he hired a hit some hit man. If a phone call happened, it was the the people at the scene saying it's done and Ginny didn't know about it. And so he said that phone call was actually this thing instead. Right. Or the phone call never happened and she was in on it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It's so official, and I can't wait to see someone. I'm still waiting to run into someone in the wild, like someone I don't know, wearing one of our old shirts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It sounds, I don't know enough about him, but based on those two little details, it's the blaming someone else, which I don't know, it was the CIA that killed Kennedy, right? I mean. And yeah, his getting involved in it and being a private detective, which I feel like you know more about how to commit a crime well. Sure. Than otherwise. Yeah, you see it all the time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
That's a good point. And in addition to that, the family didn't like the son-in-law. They were trying to get her... To leave him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. Yeah. So they were like, against this marriage, why would she call them? And there's so many instances in this whole crime that it's like, why weren't the cops called? Wow. Yeah. Starting with the mother, which probably never happened. So that's why the cops never called. Yeah. And then multiple times with the son-in-law and the daughter weren't called. Right. So- Yeah. Crazy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And then, okay, they're still looking into it. There's a $40,000 reward offered. And someone said, investigator said, in my opinion, Mrs. Durham never made that phone call. When some people come into your house to kill you, they're not going to let you make a phone call. Right. Of course. I speculate, yeah, maybe the call happened, but from a hitman that they hired.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And, okay, I also want to give a shout out to Jodi.com. No, wait. It's called I Did It For Jodi. J-O-D-I-E.com. That is a really cool, like, true crime blog that had a lot of good information.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I've never seen you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
He was. We appreciate it. We don't let anyone in our house unless they're wearing mine or Vince's podcast shirt. That's smart. As a couple, that's a good decision. We're real dicks.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yep.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Facts, you guys. We're strong on facts. We're passionate about a lot of different names. I did it for Jodi.com. Good little true crime blog. That's very cool. I have a lot of cool information. And I fucking went all over the place for this. I was so fascinated by it. I just can't believe... Yeah. He did it. There's just nothing. But they didn't even, he was never even a suspect.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It was a small town? Small town. Only unsolved murder. Wow. Yeah. Is he still like, you said he became a lawyer? He's a lawyer. He's still, they're divorced. She won't now, she now won't cooperate with the cops anymore. She's like, I gave him all the information I could. Huh. Yeah. Was that anticlimactic? Do I ask that every time? I think you do. I really do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Which are the ones I love. I love them. Good mystery.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I mean, that's why I like cold cases because you can imagine that it's more, it's deeper than just the stupidity of someone killing someone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I do. I have actual updates and this case, I would call it solved, but there's still a mystery. So it's kind of like, you know, kind of comforting. So 50 years after the murders in 2022, officials identified the perpetrators of this crime because the case was reopened in 2019 after a man came forward and
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
T-shirt, yes. Hoodie, no. No? It's like when you're working on a movie and you get the show, the movie logo hat. That's right. And once it wraps, you can wear it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
saying that his father once admitted to killing three people in the North Carolina mountains during a thunderstorm. And so the father's name was Billy Sunday Burt, and he was the only suspect still alive, and he gave up the names of his accomplices, which were Bobby Jean Gaddis, Charles David Reed, and someone named Billy Wayne Davis, which is actually the name of a comedian, friend of ours.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Right. So that's kind of fucking crazy, right? That's truly wild.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Not at all.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah, he's married to Aaron Dewey Lennox. And so all of these people were members of the so-called Dixie Mafia, which we've talked about before. Yeah. And so the Dixie Mafia, according to NBC News, is a Georgia-based, loosely organized network believed to have engaged in dozens of violent crimes across the Southeast in the 1960s and the 1970s. So it's the Mafia. It's the South. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
The thing is, Davis confirms that the killing was a contract killing. But the problem is, we don't know who the person who ordered it was and why. So that's kind of a big deal. That's very important. Yeah. And we speculate so much in the story that I'm kind of uncomfortable with it. We do it in a way that we did in the beginning where we didn't think about it. who we were throwing accusations at.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Right. Like, the daughter, the son-in-law. Like, we never said alleged until much later.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Right. And I feel the same way about the JonBenet Ramsey case, where it's just like, How fun is it just to be like, what if it's this? What if it's that? What if it's that? But we're doing it in public. And what if more than likely it's not? Right. And you're just causing more pain and wounds.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Do you think? Definitely. Should we get baseball jacket? Baseball jackets, directors. You can get... I was looking to try to get mugs and stuff. We can get serving trays with the logo on it. Oh, good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And as we say, we were always like working from the place where it was, which was, you know, people claiming on newspapers that fucking Burke Ramsey did it. You know, it's like that was the culture.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And so the son-in-law, Troy, passed away in 2019. It remains unclear if he had any involvement whatsoever. And yeah, that's it. So I don't know if we'll ever know who ordered that hit. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah, at some point. Hey, was your grandpa in the Dixie Mafia? Will you tell us about it at MyFavoriteMurder at Gmail? That has to be a hometown, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah, right. Almost as likely as my grandpa being... All right. So let's listen to Karen's story. This one. This is an epic, classic MFM. It has classic merch that we're going to tell you about, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I mean, it's still like one of the I think it's like up there with Mary Vincent story of like, you know, core memories of stories. In my heart, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So this is Karen's story about the survival of Terry Jo Duperault.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Listen, is it Lifetime? Well, it's like Lifetime.com. They only have them on their website, I think. You're missing out on a great opportunity for a shout out. And instead, Karen's just disappointed. I'm just mad.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. Posters. And we can do shot glasses too, which I feel like. I mean, there's got to be a lot of college kids listening, right? I would hope. What are they doing with their time? I mean, studying? Please. Look at us. We didn't go to college. I mean, we didn't graduate. And look at us now. I mean, I tried, but it sucked. I gave it a shot. It was weird and uncomfortable. Oh, I hated it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Should I wait? I'm going to wait. I have the picture on my phone for you. Everyone go look at the Durham family murder bathtub scene. And then it's not gruesome, except they're all dead. Oh, my God. This little girl.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I really didn't like it. It was triggering for me because I hated high school so much that it just felt like high school.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Huge.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And I just felt lost and empty and alone. Yeah. Community college felt like, oh God, it felt like I was going backwards in time because my school was kind of nice. And then suddenly it was like,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Although I wonder if the not salt water that it was raining down was helpful in some way, like she could drink it or something.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I know what it's like. Okay. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
What are parrotfish? They sound like dicks.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
What did they, what did they? Because. I know, but like how did, oh my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. Remember when they were in the ocean? That was my favorite book in the whole world.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
When his parents got killed by a fucking rhino that escaped from the zoo. Yeah. Hardcore. Maybe that's why I always thought my parents were going to die. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Maybe a pipe. Probably. It smells like a pipe. He smells like a pipe. He'd smell like a pipe. He'd definitely have a big beard. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, this is just our fantasies now. Yes, this is a different podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
And I've been waiting to freak out. With me? For you, yeah. Because I've been seeing that and I'm like, whatever, whatever. Even Vince was like, did you see that? And I'm like, yeah, whatever. But I've been waiting to talk to you about it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Come on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Does that say mentally healthy to you?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Talk about your trauma.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Instagram too. We have an Instagram account and people will be like commenting on a shirt post. Like, did you see this? So here's what I think is going to happen. One of two things. It's going to be the most boring, basic thing he thinks an intruder did it. Or he's totally going to just go ballistic and say it was his mom. I guess I'm guessing it's not the latter. But how cool would that be?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
That is so, I have never heard that before.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. But also a girl surviving in a boat. That's pretty fucking sweet. It's pretty goddamn cinematic. Can I add that none of the hands of the family in the bathtub were tied behind their back? Where were they tied? They weren't tied. So maybe they were unconscious from being strangled.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I just remembered that part. Please. Please.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No, I think they were all strangled. Okay. By, oh, there's like some kind of rope that they got at the house. So it's not like they brought these weapons with them, whoever killed them.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Fuck, you're right. Guys, please don't tell on us. And that was the end of the podcast that they did.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. Well. Go to our Instagram account. Instagram.com slash my favorite murder. Go to Twitter, MyFaveMurder at Twitter.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No, I get it. I appreciate it. It's sweet. The intentions are sweet. Of course. But also, enough.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Oh. I haven't even asked you yet. Yeah. Have I? You're jumping your line. Do you want a cookie? There he goes. Okay, we're back. I still think you won this week.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah, who by all accounts should not have survived that. No. It's a fucking miracle.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
From a movie, just wild. Yeah. What an incredible, incredible survival story. Do you have any updates?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
That's so beautiful and pure because she could have been deathly afraid for the rest of her life of water and the ocean. And that would make perfect sense. But to embrace it as the thing that saved her, not the thing that tormented her, you know, for all those days she was out there is like such an interesting, like, I think we should all take a little something from that. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No, they always do the walk and talk, though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah, and here's what it means to me. I get to make up what it means to me, not the circumstances. Right. Fuck yeah, let's all do that. It's very cool. So when this came out, my dear friend Kat Solin, who's an incredible artist, came up with a rad design. It's a little girl on a raft. It's like a little cartoon drawing, but it's like, it invokes so many emotions, the drawing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
The walk and talk, whenever there's like an interview, that's just a thing. Okay. A walk and talk. Okay. But you think an orchard is a bad sign.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It's such beautiful art. It really is. It's truly my favorite. Yeah, Kat's so good at that. So we're going to sell it for one week only. We're going to bring it back. You can pre-order a limited edition zip hoodie or mug today. and you can get that at exactlyrightstore.com. So run over there and get that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Okay, if we were to name it now based on something we said during the episode, how about My Safe is Behind My Picture? When you were talking about when burglars know where to hide stuff in the home. And you just fucking told everyone, basically. My safe is behind my picture. I could see that on our iTunes, you know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Incredible. And they probably chased those fucking parrot fish away.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
You're not going to be like, and then she hit her over the head in an orchard. You're not going to say that in an orchard.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah, that was another one. Another rewind. We did it. We'll do it again. Why not? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No, stop it. Oh, my God. I didn't even think that's what you meant.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I didn't even know that's what you meant. I thought you were going to like find out what he was saying, but that's, I would know. Don't you want to be there?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No, no, no. So yeah, he definitely asks the hard questions and kind of fucking needles them until they're like, they get nervous and then the real shit comes out. So I think he's better than like a Barbara Walters because she's super soft. For sure. On people. I agree. I can't wait. I'm totally going to watch it, but I'm like everything in life, keeping my expectations low. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
everything should I get a tiny bob that was my 90s hair I want to say we should dress like pageant girls but that seems in bad taste to say right now it does seem like that so I'm not saying it
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I am... I'm never speechless, but I'm speechless about this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
But didn't he also kill... Isn't he suspected of or did kill... Yeah. Rock and roll. Didn't isn't he a suspected of or killed two other people?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It's just that moral dilemma of like, is setting him free just going to
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
What did they find? What did they find? What? Because she wasn't she isn't wasn't she skeletal remains when they found her?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
uh what a wonderful important things we love it i mean i forget my own name i almost did one of yours i was looking up today and i was like i can't find which one um
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
No, my first was JonBenet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I started listening. I want to say just for research purposes and just for quality control, but I listened to episode one from the beginning. But it's really just because I'm fucking full of myself and wanted to hear how funny we are. And I was laughing out. This describes me in a nutshell. I was shopping for vintage clothing, listening to my own podcast, and laughing out loud.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Do you think you were laughing really loud and didn't know it because you had earbuds in? No, because I'm really aware of that. But I was laughing out loud accidentally. Like I couldn't help.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I think you and I text each other on a regular basis.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
It's funny that we're talking about JonBenet Ramsey again. Did you watch the recent documentary on Netflix?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. This is The Cold Case Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey, of course, by Joe Berlinger, who's this like incredible documentary filmmaker. Yes. The thing that – it didn't give me any, like, new insights except for I really don't think the family was involved. I really do at this point, and I feel bad that I ever did. I think it was an intruder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yeah. God. But you're going to feel bad for especially Patsy Ramsey when you watch this. It's like it's fucked up. It's just so fucked up. And I do think that the Boulder police have a lot to fucking answer to based on this documentary. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Well, there is. And it's DNA. And again, the Boulder Police Department has some shit to fucking answer for. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
I would. It's only three episodes. Okay. It's good and it's fucked up. Burke isn't in it because he has not publicly spoken since this interview with Dr. Phil, which you can totally understand why he wouldn't want to. But another one of John Ramsey's sons is in it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti
Yes, it must be true if it's being printed or it's being said by news people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yes. Exactly. And I know that and knows what he's doing, but I can't ignore it. And I can't be like, that's a character because Jason Bateman keeps fucking doing that. Yes, that's right. But it was such a good show that I was able to get past that. Wow. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
His equipment. His general style. His general style. Xavier Morris. Supporting. Of the Purrcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah. No, leave it. Let's get some fucking drama stirred up on these podcasting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
They've never heard of us.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I know some beautiful murder, you know, fucking went and added me. I don't, I wonder if it's still there and said that she hates it. Georgia attended high school and she hated every minute of it. Hey, that was an honor. That was definitely one of those moments in the podcast where I was like, wow, this is like, this is real. This is huge. This is like, cool. It's huge.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah, welcome. Who did I... Still trapped in the basement. Vince, so we have our murderinos that we call people who listen to this podcast. I don't, we didn't make that up. No, we didn't. But that's what people call it. Okay. And Vince said that, so Steven has the per cast about cats. And Vince said that the people who listen should be called perverts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And I was so appreciative of it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
No, because every high school Wikipedia page has people of note who attended every single one of them, including this one, and had like these random like, you know, sports fucking commentator or whatever. Yeah. And I'm like, I think I've reached that. Excuse me. I was on Cooking Channel. Can I please have it, you know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
So, I mean, I bet yours has one, too. Did we ever look it up?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah, this was a big one, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I don't know, though. That's okay. It's like, your high school's, like, low key. And mine is, like, you know. High key? High key. It's in the highest key. Yeah. I think we should post the photo on the when we post this episode on socials of the couch photo of us. One of my favorites.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
What's noticeable in this is your cheekbones. Every time this gets posted, people comment on your cheekbones.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Pat. Those feet. I don't know whose those are on me. Thanks, Dad. I think those are Marty's.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Man, honestly, if fans only, whatever it's called, existed in my 20s, I would have made some serious cash on those feet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
But what are you going to do?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
You got to do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
He said you can have it. Thank you, Vince. He said, go, tell him you can have it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Hey, we're back, Skippers. Hi. Hi, friends. All right. My favorite murder this week is Selena Quintanilla Perez. No. And the reason I'm doing it is that it is audio engineer Stevie Ray Morris of the podcast Favorite Murder Attributes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Were you little when she died? So you didn't know yet?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Did I, Stephen, Quintanilla? Quintanilla.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Oh, Karen, your doorbell phone is ringing. Selena Quintanilla Perez was born on April 16th, 1971 in Lake Jackson, Texas. and was called the Mexican-American Madonna. Oh, I must've known that. I've watched the movie with J.Lo. I haven't seen it. Wonderful piece of art. Gosh, she's beautiful. They were both beautiful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And she was poised to become a crossover success when her death turned her into a legend. Selena's father discovered Selena's quote, perfect timing and pitch and helped his kids form a band. And she was like nine years old when they started performing. Wow. The band, once her parents lost their family restaurant, the band became the family's main source of income and they were in poverty.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And this career, Selena's career just took them out of poverty because they were evicted from their home during the Texas oil bust of 1982. And they moved to Corpus Christi, Texas, which sounds very hot, doesn't it? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Um, that's a total guess. I know. I was like, right. Do I want it?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Is that a big military town? I think it is. Yes. In fact, it has 25 that I have no fucking clue. Let's just talk about Corpus Christi for the rest of this. Um, So then the family band began recording music professionally. And in 1984, when Selena was, I think, 13, the band released its first LP, Selena Los Dinos.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And that's how she got murdered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Hate mail can be sent to Karen Kilgariff. I'm just translating. Karen Kirillov's apartment or house, the address is. So yes, Stephen, you are correct. Selena was a third generation Texan of Mexican descent. So she didn't grow up speaking Spanish. So she didn't know any. But she learned all her songs phonetically. And when her popularity grew, she had to learn it. And she did very quickly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
But it sounds so, the ignorance makes it powerful. That's what it is. Like, cause that's what love does to you. Makes you a stupid idiot. That's right. Okay. Grew in popularity in the year 1987. She won the Tanejo, oh God. Tejano? Tejano Music Award. I like, I was watching videos to get this correctly and I'm just screwing it all up. Tejano Music Award for Female Vocalist of the Year.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And then she landed her first major record deal with Capitol Latin in 1989. So she performed several times at the Houston Astrodome to sold out crowds of more than 60,000 people. And after her death time described her as the embodiment of young, smart, hip, Mexican-American youth from a tight-knit family and a down-to-earth personality, a Madonna without the controversy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Essentially, she was a huge Mexican-American star in her community and was poised to become a mainstream star and that community was... obsessed with her and proud of her and felt like, you know, she was one of their own. Yeah. And she was a big fucking deal. Yeah. And she seemed like a very sweet person.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Cut that out. Don't cut that out. Not sorry. All right. Where am I? Cut to mid 1991. Yolanda Saldivar. She was, so you see all these photos of her and videos of her. She was, when she got arrested, she was 35 years old. What? That's quote unquote my age. She's 35. She looks like a fucking grandma. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yours aren't. And you be quiet because it's my turn. How much I hate TV. Oh, did you watch the last night? I fucking I just I don't. There's a block and I mean to and I haven't. No, the answer is no. Well, then you don't want his DNA inside you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Okay, so 91, Yolanda Saldivar was around 30 and she was an in-home nurse for patients with terminal cancer and just a fan of Tejano music. Just a fucking random woman. She had a history of stealing money from her employers as well as trying to become intertwined with the lives of other performers. And she attended one of Selena's concerts and became a fucking psychotic fan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
With the intent of starting Selena's fan club, she started obsessively calling Selena's father, leaving almost 15 messages until he gave her permission in June of 1991 to be the president of the fan club, which sounds like, okay, you know what? Take this, run with it, do your thing, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
But it's almost like, well, she's being consistent and she wants to run this thing and make us more money. And it's a thing that we haven't started and maybe it'll help her with her. Like, this is what I'm thinking was there. You know what I mean? I'm just saying that's three calls. Totally. In a day. Totally. Totally. Also, like you don't need to have contact with her after that. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
So as president of the fam club, she was responsible for membership benefits, collecting money and promoting Selena. Yeah. All that kind of thing. And she actually didn't meet Selena until December 91, but they became close friends and Yolanda became trusted by her whole family. In 94, she became Selena's assistant and quit her job as a nurse. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. I did not know that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I thought she was just the fan club. No, she became her assistant. She quit her job as a nurse, even though she was making more money as a nurse than she was doing this. Like she was just so obsessed and had posters all over her house and people come over. She would just make them watch Selena videos, talked about nothing else and was just like, kind of like crazy about Selena. Wow. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
That was, I've never heard that laugh before.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Like crazy. And wants them, like has this feeling of like ownership and like. Yeah. And like, no one understands it the way I understand it. It's almost made for me kind of a thing. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
All right. Well then, so in 94, Selena starts opening fashion boutiques. She has two of them opening up. It's called Selena, et cetera. I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't either. Cause she has this crazy style. It's very nineties and very like on point, like, you know, almost Madonna-y, but a little more hip and,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Hoop earrings and red lipstick. Yeah, it's totally pretty fucking sweet. So she's opening these clothing, these fashion stores and asks Saldivar to become the manager of the boutiques. So Saldivar, because of doing this, is authorized to write and cash checks, had access to the bank accounts associated with the fan club and the boutiques.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And Selena gave her an American Express card for the purpose of conducting company business.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Doesn't know that she's the stalker, though. Oh. Oh, yeah. Selina has no idea that she's the stalker. She just thinks she's a good friend of hers. That's like willing to do all this hard work. Yeah, that's like, you know, Selina's in this bubble of becoming famous and touring and all these things. And this person is becoming a trusted confidant and is a huge fan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And clearly is an intelligent woman if she's a nurse. Yeah, totally. Okay. Yeah. And everyone said she was very manipulative and good at, you know, being manipulative. Yeah. 15 calls. That's all I have to say. Yeah. It worked somehow. So within a year, Saldivar had mismanaged the boutiques and they were failing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And then upon investigation, the family finds out that Saldivar had embezzled more than I saw 60,000, but I also saw a hundred thousand dollars and forged checks from both the fan club and the boutiques. But Selena refused to believe it. She was like, no way. That's my friend.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
you
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Like even her father, who was a manager and her husband and brother were like, dude, they were like, dude, probably not like that. Um, but eventually Selena, uh, kind of sees some shit going on and believes it. And the family fires her, tells her not to come near Selena. But Selena still wanted to become friends, stay friends. She was like, you don't work for me anymore, but let's stay friends.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
So at this time, Saldivar purchases a snub-nosed 38 caliber revolver. And here's what I think is the fucked up thing, is 38 caliber hollow point bullets. Then the bullets were designed to cause more extensive injuries than normal bullets.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
which like throws out, later we'll talk about it. So on March 31st in 1995, she convinces Selena to meet you'll not her alone in a days in motel room, promising to restore, just return financial documents that she had stolen and telling Selena that she had to come alone and that she had, that Yolanda had been raped and needed someone to talk to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And this, she has to make up this lie because three other times in the past, like couple of weeks, Yolanda had tried to get her alone and it had been foiled every time. And her husband had come or it had, They had met in a parking lot or something like that. So Yolanda was trying to get her alone. Yeah. So in the hotel room, they kind of fight over the documents.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And as they're doing that, the gun comes out and Selena turns to run and out the door and Saldivar shoots her in the back. as she's running out, severing an artery leading from her heart. And it came out the front of her chest on the other side. So it was kind of like a shoulder shot. And Selena's running towards the motel lobby as she's bleeding.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And Saldivar comes, there was a witness said that she chased after her, pointing the gun at her and calling her a bitch. Selena ran 130 yards to the motel's lobby and collapsed on the floor. And meanwhile, Yolanda's now trying to escape in her car. Um, and it was theorized that she's heading to the recording studio where the rest of Selena's family is to kill them too. That's what they thought.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
But a police officer who was around the corner responded, stopped her and, uh, instead of getting out of the car, she pulls the car into a parking space and gets kind of blocked in, in this parking spot. So she's in her car in a parking spot with a gun won't come out. In the meantime, the motel staff is trying to help Selena.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
An ambulance comes in less than two minutes, but Selena's pronounced dead at one Oh five from loss of blood and cardiac arrest. Yeah. Her last words were, this fucking makes me want to cry. Her last words, Yolanda Saldivar, room 158. Those were her last words, like not tell my family I love them. She was just trying to make sure they knew who did it. Yeah, which makes me so sad.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Britain's own. And he's got the British accent, man. Oh, dude. The like street British accent.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
It's just like the last words out of your mouth are about your killer's name. Well, yeah. I mean, I know, like, I know, like you should get them out, but then I just wish it could then be like, something sweeter. She was only 23 years old. Oh no. Oh no, baby. Well, an autopsy is performed. And this is what I thought when I heard about her running after getting shot. She died of heart failure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Wait, no. We realized Selena's heart fueled by adrenaline. And I think from running pumped all the blood out of her circulatory system. So I feel like if she hadn't run, she either might've gotten shot again by Yolanda, but she, but, or she, The blood might not have. It's those hollow point bullets. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I mean, I don't think you can get shot and it comes out the other side and you can survive that. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Stop it. But he can do any British accent. Well, I guess I only heard, I only heard him speaking in a British accent when he was rapping. So I was like.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I mean, those things are evil. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is so event. So Sal's of ours trying to say, I was trying to say that it was an accident that she was going to kill herself, but it's like, well, why did you buy those bullets then? Yeah. Like you clearly had a motive. Um, so meanwhile, there's a nine hour standoff with Yolanda in which she is in her car with the gun to her head, um,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
hysterically on the phone with the hostage or with the negotiator trying to say that she didn't mean to kill her. She was an accident. She was trying to kill herself and all these other excuses. But ultimately, let's see, she gave herself in and she got arrested. She's tried for first degree murder and claimed that the gun quote accidentally went off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And all these other excuses, but ultimately it didn't work. And the jurors deliberated for less than three hours. And on October 23rd, 1995, they found Saldivar guilty. She's sentenced to life in prison with a possibility of parole in 30 years, which is going to be March 2025. But everyone's like... she is so incredibly hated in Texas, she will be murdered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And she has to be in solitary confinement because of that, because the rest of the- Everybody wants to kill her in jail. Yeah, everyone in jail who was huge Selena fans her whole life wants to fucking murder her. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah. Yeah, so she spends every day, 23 hours a day alone in a nine by six foot cell. Let's see.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
So the case has been described as the most important trial for the Latino population, and it was compared to the OJ Simpson murder trial. It was one of the most publicly followed trials in the history of Texas. Wow. Her posthumous 1995 crossover album, Dreaming of You, debuted at number one on the Billboard charts and became triple platinum. That just gave me chills. I know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
She was the first Hispanic artist to have a predominantly Spanish language album debut and peak at number one.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Well, we remember like in the late, you and I and people of our age will remember in the late 90s, like this huge, this huge Latin pop. And that was like the first time it became mainstream. So Selena's doing this in the early 90s. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
That wasn't that wasn't on on American TV. pop radio. Yeah. Like that was not on there at all. So she was kind of a trailblazer and seemed like a good person and this fucking psycho bitch fan. Like I didn't, I didn't know. I always pictured it differently and it's just like, So fucking tragic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Unwilling.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And they have like gray area morals too. Yeah. Like I don't like, yeah, someone, if I knew a friend embezzled money, I would not trust that person.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Oh, man. No, I want it to be dirty, please.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah. Wow. Keep your hands out of the kitty. That's super weird that I talked about that. It is so weird. Sorry. No, I don't care. It's super like we've never talked about her before. No, not at all. That is super weird. All right. Wow. That was a big story to cover. Do you have updates? Yeah, I do. So Selena's music and legacy, of course, continue to live on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
After her death in 1995, a wax statue of Selena was unveiled at Madame Tussauds Hollywood. And she was inducted into the Texas Women's Hall of Fame at Texas Women's University. Netflix, of course, released Selena, the series. And in 2023, Rolling Stone ranked Selena at number 89 on its list of 200 greatest singers of all time, which is incredible.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And today we're recapping episode 32, which we named just the 32 of us. I thought we were done with the number puns.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Also, Mac released a limited edition Selena makeup line. And it's been 30 years since Selena was murdered, which is crazy that it's been so long. And that means that Yolanda Saldivar is eligible for parole this year. Her file will be reviewed, including letters of support and protest, and a case summary will be prepared for the board voting panel.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Her parole review date is March 30th of this year, 2025, so that's something to keep an eye on. It's such a high-profile case, you know? I can't imagine she's going to be paroled. Not that that's what it's about, but...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Right. But she took advantage of this vulnerable person in a way that was so ugly and then killed her when that person found out about it. It's just so cold-blooded to me and just horrible. Yeah, let's keep an eye on that. And so this is another kind of epic story that you've done that gets brought up a lot. And so let's hear Karen's story about the Zancou chicken murders.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I'll put it on the I'll put it on. We have a new Facebook fan page because some people told us that that's how you're supposed to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Did I talk about your murder yet?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Let's give everyone directions from Zancou chicken to my apartment.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Zancou chicken is so good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And pinks, pinks, hot dogs, that kind of thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I know, and the way it moves, the way everything flows and moves.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
That is us to a T and I'm fucking in love with it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Thanks to everyone who, like there's so many cute drawings of us, even though we berated them last week. They like it. I know. I keep posting them on Instagram. We have an Instagram, My Favorite Murder, and I do them constantly. I like can't stop posting all day. And I feel like I'm getting annoying because there's just so much cool shit to post.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Oh my goodness.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
You're able to, you're able to do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Can I tell you my favorite one from our last episode is...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
you know the part where I go doe a dead body a female dead body someone took a photo of my face and put it over the face in um sound of music sound of music where she's singing on this on the hilltop to all the children and it's just my little face like a perfect photo of me with my mouth open like looking like I'm singing and it says doe it Stephen showing it to Karen right now
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Your son's dying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
So she's gone. And that's the last... How did the house catch on fire? We don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
They are to not give your fucking kids...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I will put that on the Facebook page, too. Oh, that's brilliant.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
She could also be like, you know how some people get mad at someone who's sick because it's easier than the sadness you can feel? Yes. So she might've been mad at him that she had to watch her son die. Yes. And it's easier than... It's a thousand percent easier.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
No, no, no, no, no. No, no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Holy fuck. Are you serious?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
A poor woman after maybe years or maybe however long taking care of her sick husband. Yes. That's fucking stressful as hell. And raising four boys. Who are not doing, who are fuck ups.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
They can do whatever they want. Yeah. So then, then after taking care of her sick, dying husband, then this happens and she has to be in charge of so much shit she didn't expect to be in charge of. Yeah. That poor woman. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah, like, you know, you can't, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right? That's right. If there's a good one. If there's just the 32 of us. It's pretty funny.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Who owns it now?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Me too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Um, I want to, a, my stomach is growling. I know. Are you hungry now? Oh, that's, I want to eat four chickens. I do too. I'm like already thinking about what I'm going to order tomorrow when I go there. Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I hate it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
When your weight fluctuates, it's, you just, and you get photographed for things a lot.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
It's stock. It's totally stock.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
One thing I love about this podcast is I think a lot of people who listen ended up, when they come to LA for a vacation, go to Zancou now and Del Taco. And I'm fucking proud of that. Hell yes. You know, if we've given anyone any good tips, that's one of the best, I think. Go to Zancou.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I know what I look like.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Definitely.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah. Actually, that photo that we took is taken. My first apartment in Hollywood was in Little Armenia.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And it was such a pleasant neighborhood and the shops. And I just, I loved it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
It's called Glendale.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I mean, it's classic. So good. But just to humor us, let's see what we would name it these days based on something we said in the episode. So... I like this one. Consider me wrong again, which I said during Corrections Corner. Like, you know, that could be tattooed on my fucking gravestone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah. Start now. Press play now. Right. Well, thank you for not skipping. We appreciate you guys sticking with it. Even if you did skip in the beginning and maybe don't skip now. Like, cool. Thank you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Every anecdote, every corrections corner. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Well, sorry, not sorry. I'm not a doctor or a medical student. Never say sorry, not sorry. Just don't be sorry. Okay. Yeah. I thought you were berating me for trying to bring that back when you're trying to bring what was it?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Guillain-Barre. Well, so there. Well, consider me wrong again. Consider me always wrong. Correction corner. Correction corner. What else? How are you? What do you want to say?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Stephen, can you take a photo of me lounging hard right now? I'll put it on the vent. Let me fix my sweat. I'm also sweating. That's cool. Sweat lounging. And I got a Mimi cat on the photo. Just happened. Check it on the, well, let's plug our places. Instagram.com slash my favorite murder. Oh, the face. That's like a picture. Finally, a picture of myself I'm not mad about.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Look at those cheekbones, Karen. I wasn't even really sucking them in. My part's a bit off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
That's my entire butt. Also, that's going to end up on that's going to end up on WikiFeet. I promise you. Can I have a WikiFeet page? I mean, look at my feet. They're pretty fucking cute. Let's be honest. You deserve it. Thank you. Yeah, I'm going to own it. You know why? Because I don't have a Wikipedia page. So I'm OK with WikiFeet. So you're going to be fine. Here we go.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
You got to break in somehow. You know what else pisses me off? I'm not going to tell you. Never mind. I am pissed off that my high school, they have like a list of like alumni who have done things not on there. Where's the list? On Wikipedia.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Classic. It's a classic. And now we can all be day one listeners. Okay, here's the intro of episode 32.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Also let everyone know I hate, I hated them all. I hate them all. No, don't put that part in. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
now this is your high school wiki feet page um okay the fan page okay here's this is hilarious so i tried to start the fan page we can't use the word murder in the title because facebook is like we recognize a word that you can't fucking you can't say because you're not you're a grown adult and you know what i mean i'm fine so it's mfm podcast Is the name of the Facebook fan page. Cool.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
So you kind of have to be an insider to know that it's just the initials. It's like winky wink. And then I think that means also that maybe your family and friends won't know that you're part of a murder group. I think that's good. It'll just say MFM. Yeah, I think that's what people are worried about. Until they see the logo. Again, grown adults.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Or send us a photo of all of you listening. Secretly listening. Also, I love that I've been noticing in the Facebook page, I'll look at some comments sometimes late at night and it'll be like, comment, comment, comment. And then someone will comment to someone who already commented and be like, Alex, you're in this group? You're in a murder arena? Like, oh my God, Melissa, I can't believe it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
We're like, we're totally good. Like it's people keep recognizing their friends in there and it's like hilarious.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
This week, girl over there is played by Georgia Hartstark. Georgia Hartstark. Georgia Hartstark. And gee, I love murder, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Well, we're not moving forward right now on this podcast until you fucking do that. Let's relive your nightmares.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
You're going to become the cool one. Exactly. My sister knows what's up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
It was pretty exciting. I think my, I'm scared. I think my dad might start listening to this. Cause what? I thought he was already. I don't think so. Because he was like, I was hanging out with him over the weekend and he was like, tell me about your thing. Like they don't understand that it's a thing. And I was like, oh, it's this thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
And I'm like, well, he doesn't know how to download podcasts. And then he was like, looked at his phone and he like showed me the podcast and he was like this. And I was like, uh-huh. Yeah, no. It's okay. He's cool. He doesn't care about the F word, does he? Oh my God, no. My God, you can't have me as a child and care about the F word. I care about a lot of things, honestly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I think he's happy that I'm alive, survived my own. I am too. I mean, that I'm alive or that you're alive? Both of us. Me too. It was supposed to be a compliment. Oh, thank you. All right, you guys, we're going to get into our favorite murders. Yes. We're going to take a quick pee break. We'll be right back for my favorite murder. Skippers. This is your time to come on home. Come on home.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
Be right back.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I'm so impatient with shows. I can't get through anything. If I get through a series, it should get an Oscar immediately because it's good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
No, but I can think of one that I got through even though I don't like the lead actor and that's how good it was. But this might get us in trouble because it's Ozark.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 32: Just the 32 of Us
I love Jason Bateman. He's a great actor. He just does this thing that drives me crazy. And you'll never not see it again if I tell you. Or he goes, okay, at the end of every sentence.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And so I thought, okay, I guess that was just another car in the neighborhood. It was around 1130 or 12 when they got home and the husband of the couple took me home. Around 2 a.m., my dad... Now that's creepy. Now that's creepy. Around 2 a.m., my dad comes in my room and wakes me up and says that there are two highway patrol officers downstairs and they want to talk to me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Describe my face right now. What the fuck? Georgia's eyes are as wide as they possibly could be and she looks legitimately scared. I'm so excited. My first thought was, oh my God, something happened to one of the kids in their sleep or something like that. They told us that the next door neighbor, Lyle Norman, and then in parentheses, is it okay to give names?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yes, because this is now a case. The next door neighbor, Lyle Norman, of the house I was babysitting at, she means next door to the house she was babysitting at, had just been murdered in his house the same time I was babysitting next door. That wasn't a car door. And asked if I heard or saw anything strange.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Come to find out the man, Lyle, had just been on a cruise and stopped by a bar or casino or something and picked up a guy and brought him home. Sorry, trying to type this with two cats. Right. It's back and forth on my computer. I get it. All right. It doesn't. Anyway, this guy stabbed Lyle, killing him and probably robbed him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And they think he left around the 1030 ish time when I heard the car door thinking it was the couple I was babysitting for. when I turned the front door. Lyle. I'm really glad I didn't go outside and see if it was the couple or not. And I was just so thankful my mom hadn't run into the crazy guy when she went out to her car and that the kids were okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
That was so sad to hear Lyle had been murdered. I think they ended up catching the guy. But if you search Lyle Norman Butler, Missouri, the story should pop up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And then she's got a second one. You want me to read it? Yes. One other quick story. My husband at the time and I and my daughter lived out in the country in an old house in an area where a battle occurred during the Civil War time. And my husband worked nights, so I let my daughter sleep with me in the middle of the night. I hear one of her music boxes fucking playing. That's what she wrote. Nope.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I'm fucking playing. It had been played long enough that it woke me up and I was pretty heavy sleeper back then. I'm flipping out, but laid really still in case it was someone robbing us or something. But then I thought, why would somebody wind up a music box? A minute or two later, I hear something fall on the ground in the other room. I lay awake forever.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Didn't want to leave my daughter alone in bed and had my hand on this heavy lamp in case I needed it to protect me and she with it. The next morning, I slowly walk into the next room where there's a sturdy coat rack that had a shelf above it that had books and heavy flower pot on it. The books were on the ground. The flower pot was still on the shelf.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
There wasn't any way the cat could have gotten on the shelf. And none of us put it there. What? No! I'm going to say ghost. A friend built a house down the road years later and said they walked in their living room one evening and an old woman was sitting in the rocking chair. Bye, Karen. It was nice knowing you. No doubt the area is haunted. Raw chicken, though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
That suddenly took a turn for the... Yeah, raw chicken is... Yeah, I'm not... Maybe it was a cat. Maybe it was a really, really, really smart cat that loved music. Do you know... Go on, sorry. She just ends it by saying, last crazy thing, if you Google people in the 1800s posing with dead bodies, holy shit, that's fucked up. Anyway, take care. Stay safe. Thanks for letting me share. Charlotte.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
She's good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Okay, we're back. No updates on Charlotte's story. Charlotte, if you're listening, that's on you. You should have dropped us a line. Keep us posted now if you have anything else to tell us about your story. We need updates. But thank you, Charlotte, because you are one of the early people that were like, oh, you want a story?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. Any sound stories? What did the sound mean? Okay, now here's George's first hometown from Samantha M., Okay, now you go.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
So wait, so you're starting, you're in fear that people will think it's boring. You're starting mellow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I'm not questioning you. I'm just clarifying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
This episode was originally released on Thursday, July 28th, 2016.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
You know, golden retrievers love to match.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Samantha, that's intense. Although I have to say, I understand what she means by saying you never know what goes on behind closed doors. But I think you had a slight indication. With people who dressed exactly like each other from kindergarten through high school.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Uh, hi, welcome to My Favorite Murderer. That's Karen. I hate that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
If you scar them early, nothing else can hurt them. Right. Because they don't know any different. That's scarred. It was like a mini heaven's gate.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And I just thank God that I was so ignorant.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And just, I thought, well, back then I thought everyone had the life I had. I remember asking my teacher, Ellen Lesher, who was my grammar school teacher and family friend. That's so sad. She put me to bed one night when she was over having dinner with my parents and I wanted her to come and tuck me in. And so she said, She asked me if I had any question I could ask.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
She told me I could ask her anything. She did an AMA with me. She did an analog AMA. And I asked her, I said, there's a little girl in my class. Let's just say her name was Sarah Jane. And I said, why is Sarah Jane's face always dirty? And I was saying it like, cause I thought, you know, she was going to give me some answer. And she said, because she doesn't have anybody to clean it for her.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And as a fourth grader, I, I just started crying in my bed. I had no idea. I had no idea that anybody would live that way. And that, I mean, that's how intensely privileged and like, and, you know, sheltered I was.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Welcome to My Favorite Murderer. Welcome to My Favorite Murderer. Oh, this is so bad. It's, um... It's just uncomfortable to start a podcast. I think anyone listening understands that. Yeah. It's uncomfortable to pretend while you're sitting in your friend's apartment that you suddenly have some kind of official... Right. Like it's as if we're on the radio.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, that's yeah. And kids don't have a choice. Like that's, that's the one good thing. I always make jokes about like, we need to bring bullying back, but I am totally joking in that way that like kids don't kids get attacked. Yeah. by other kids for things that they, that are not their fault. Yeah. And it really sucks because it's a thing they're already suffering by. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I got it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, no, I was, same here. And that's because it's mob rules. You don't want to be the target. You have to make sure someone else stays the target.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. It's, I mean, I was just thinking it's bad. It may get worse on this next one. Yeah. That we go into. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Okay, Karen, you go. Charissa sent us this. It says, hello, ladies. I started listening. I have very sibilant S's. I've noticed this lately on the podcast. You went in the where? This is not close. This is me talking. My S's are very sharp.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
No, no. I think it's because my teeth are floating and moving around in my mouth. That's a creepy. So there's some kind of, like I keep, anyway. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
That I need to get rid of because who gives a fuck at the end of the day?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Hello, ladies. I just started listening to your podcast this week and I haven't gotten all the way through the episodes yet. So I hope this isn't a duplicate. So do I, Carly. Clarissa. Anyway, I have not one, but two hometown murders for you. The first one is just plain horrifying. It happened in a house that is almost directly across the street from me. And the killer was Megan Huntsman.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
She has been charged with killing and hiding six newborn babies in her garage. Oh, fuck. Somehow, and I'm still trying to figure this out, she managed to hide seven pregnancies over a decade. She never went to the hospital. No one knew what was going on. Apparently, she would give birth, strangle or suffocate the baby, wrap bodies in garbage bags, store the box in her garage.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
She left the corpses when she moved away. What in the shit? The police found seven dead babies, but only six had been murdered. The last one was born stillborn. Her husband is the one who found the corpses. Oh, he didn't even know who? He had spent eight years in prison for drugs. And when he got out, he went to the house to clear it out and get it ready for rental.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And he said the garage smelled horrible. And he had a friend help him clean out the garage to figure out where the smell was coming from. What I don't get is the fact that he was there in the house with her during the times those babies were born and subsequently murdered. Well, it doesn't sound like he was if he was in prison for eight years. Whose babies were they?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
well yeah i mean that might be why she had to kill them but jesus christ he claims he had no idea she was pregnant or had babies and the police decided not to charge him with anything she pled guilty to six counts of murder and has been sentenced to life in prison she has three surviving children oh no oh that's the scariest thing i ever read intense therapy immediately and claimed she was too addicted to meth to take care of more isn't it funny how many like
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Anyway, that's my hometown murder story. Hope you enjoyed it. Thanks, Clarissa. Bye. I'm sorry. I keep saying Clarissa. It's Charissa. Charissa with an H. That was intense. That was crazy. Also, she didn't include two stories. It was just one.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
We love you, Charissa. Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates on this case? There actually is one. Megan Huntsman's first parole hearing is slated for April of 2064. Oh, wow. Wow. So I guess keep an eye here? Yeah. Watch this space. Sure. We're going to be so old. Okay, so now we're going to do some back-to-backs.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Georgia's going to tell Leonard's hometown about the killer dentist, and then I tell Cody's hometown.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Hey, Georgia. Karen. What's up, girl? How are you? What's your murdery day been like?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well... Bloomin' Onion? Is that there? Is Bloomin' Onion Outback Steakhouse? Well, because that reminds me the dentist.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
one of us oh this is a good one okay this is from Cody um and the the title the subject line is all the way from Australia hello governor sorry sorry there Cody hi ladies hey ladies I love your podcast in Australia during the 60s we had a lot of child murderers Australia's
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Welcome to My Favorite Murder, the podcast that answers the question, should you talk about murders? The answer is no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
legit with murders I said that to someone recently that was from Australia I was like you guys have a lot of great murders and they were like what they were like goodbye bye on the day Neil Armstrong took a step on the moon well the TV aired a man walking on the moon could be a sound studio could be real life I'm not making any claims this is not that podcast awesome
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Two children, Shane Spiller and Yvonne Toohey, went on a picnic. A man jumped out, grabbed Toohey. Spiller was able to fight him off with a hatchet and run away to get help. Why did he have a hatchet? They were on an axe picnic? I don't know. He was able to describe the car and a navel sticker on the car. It was too late, though, as they had found Toohey's body horrifically murdered. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
The cops then drove to the naval base with Spiller in the car and Spiller ID'd the car. The police entered the naval base and found Derek Percy literally red-handed, washing his bloody clothes. This guy is linked to multiple child murders and he is considered one of Australia's worst serial killers. Holy shit. Derek Percy. Gotta look him up. D-E-R-E-C-K. Anywho, flash forward to 2002. Fate line.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And thousands of kilometers away, whatever that means, thousands of kilometers away, Spiller had been living close to my home in a very small, close-knit community for ages. And he then suddenly disappeared in 2002 and has not been heard of since.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
It's the survivor of those two children. I bet he was fucked up. Yeah. He probably just got discovered there and was like, see you later. Bye. Google search Derek Percy. He is linked to so many child murders. Most notably, he had a notebook with the beach that the three Beaumont siblings went missing at circled.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
It goes nowhere. It's three kids who walk to the beach very close to their house. It's something they did all the time. And it was in the 70s, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I had the same exact feeling about that case where I... I think that podcast that has a girl and two guys... Oh, not generation... I always think it's Generation Y, but it's...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Fuck. I think they're out of Portland. They did a really good one. Yeah. On this, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, sorry guys.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
It's like, what in the, what do you know? It's like a question phrase. And that's why I think it's Generation Y all the time, but it's not. I'll read the rest of this while you look that up. Also, it came out that his mother is an upstanding citizen who destroyed evidence for him. Oh, that mother and son bond. Cute. Parentheses. Fucking douchebag. Love you guys. P.S.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yes, I'm a girl, even though my name sounds like a dude's name. Cody, that was an awesome email.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Very awesome. I love that. Derek, I'm looking up Derek Percy. I'm looking up. That's a really good one.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
You know what? We'll find it by the end. Okay. What if we do that way?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
No, no, I just read it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
No, no, no. I'm laughing because the people on the show say Marcella.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I know. There's been a couple of these where I'm, like, looking back where I'm like, oh, can't we just pull things out of old episodes where we were, like, talking about it once and then putting it aside?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, you know, it's funny is I was looking at that and I was like, that seems familiar. I did it on my favorite weekend when we were in Santa Barbara.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
But remember how fun that my favorite weekend was? It was the coolest.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah, all our friends who agreed to come and take buses everywhere to get from place to place.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Okay, here's next up. Georgia's going to tell Angie's hometown.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, if he didn't like it, he didn't like it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, I mean, he's right. But did they abuse him?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Are you new? Are you new? I mean, I don't know. I just liked it. But also, I really do like, as long as it's new and British. Yeah, you specifically like those. I really do. I think they do crime procedurals great.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
You mean instead of like raping the sister?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. It's you just... Or at least it's not revenge in the story you're telling. It doesn't line up. It doesn't. Fuck, that's intense. Did you find it? I did. It's Thinking Sideways. It's Steve, Devin, and Joe's podcast, Thinking Sideways. It's a really good... If you like... Here's the thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
If you like facts, if you like really well-researched stories and deeply researched stories, this is your podcast, Thinking Sideways.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, it's a really good discussion because it seems like they do it the way we do it where I listen to a couple and it's like people, they ask each other questions as they talk through the case.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I don't know who's who.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll each do one more. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Molly, subject line, axe murders. Yay. Okay, so I literally started listening this morning. The show is amazing. I love true crime. I think you guys are really funny. I wanted to share my hometown murder with you too. So in 1988 in Rochester, Minnesota, that's MN, right? Facts. Oh, facts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
It's the fear that's keeping us from... It's fear. It's all it is. I'm pretty sure MN is... Minnesota. In Rochester, Minnesota. This 16-year-old named David Brum killed his mom, dad, little sister, and little brother. He got in a fight with his dad over the music he listened to. David was a goth kid going to Catholic school. What was he listening to? It was like something stupid.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
We were like, they're not even that good. What was it? 808 State? What the fuck? When no one could find him later on, his friends went to school administration. They in turn called the cops who went into the home, found the dead bodies. They didn't find David until the evening, two miles from the school in a phone booth at the post office, less than a mile from the house I grew up in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I don't like slow. Yeah, they're very slow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Was he just hanging out? It doesn't say. I bet he was dead. I wasn't alive during this time, but my dad called my mom at least a couple times to make sure she was okay during the manhunt. Wait, he was just in the phone booth? I thought he killed himself in the phone booth. No, no, no, no. He was trying to make calls or something. They basically found him there. Okay. So it was a manhunt.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And the last thing in there was it was terrifying. David is still in prison and is eligible for parole in 2041. His brother Joe has passed away in the past couple of years, so he doesn't have any family left. I honestly don't think he'll be released from prison, but stranger things have happened. Sorry this was so long. Wanted to share. Love the show. Molly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
It was not long. No. What is it with these? There's a couple of these kind of stories of like teenage boys trying to deal with all their chemicals outside and in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And I will say as a person growing up in the 80s, boys, at least at my school, got the shit beaten out of them every single day. There were some bullies at my school that were downright terrifying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Oh my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
In addition, what the fuck? Let's vow to never do those voices again. Oh my God, never. Except for our real voices, which sound a lot like that. Which we don't want to admit actually sound exactly like that. I will recommend this, although it is off topic of the direct murder topic. I've been watching Stranger Things. I was just going to bring it up. Really? Love it. Two episodes in. Love it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, it happened to a lot.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. It happened to so many people. I think because my mom had a super rotten childhood herself. She was, she was like, there's, there was never any hitting. Yeah. And there was always like a, you know, discourse, but yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. It looks like it's for tourists.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
You get plowed on wine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I'm sorry. No, it's plied. Well, you're just reading it. Okay. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Originally, I thought... It just makes it sound like she fucked her own mom. Sorry.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
So good. Love it. And as a person who grew up in the 80s, like those houses, it's a new Netflix series. If you haven't seen it called Stranger Things, it's very popular. People are loving it. Winona Ryder is a star. Very proud to see her there. Hometown girl, Winona Ryder. And it's so good. She's great. It's really fun. But that, like the friend Barb...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
But he also has that look on his face like, I'm chill. Everything's chill. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Is she done?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Because here's the good news to the end of that story. Yeah. He was stabbed to death in Folsom Prison. Yay! If anyone's worried, the man who killed four women.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
She, that's so crazy. I know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, man. I'm trying to scan really quickly, but yeah, I don't see anything about clothes. Whoa, that one's good. I'm sweating profusely. I smell kind of bad. Pretty sure. Yeah, I'm definitely sweating. Sorry. I love those. I like those fast ones. I do too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I mean, it's very satisfying to just go, not have to dive and pretend to be an expert on a topic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
There was a couple and we're still going to keep doing these. So if we didn't get to yours, hopefully we'll soon. But there's hundreds. I mean, there's so many. So many. But there's a couple who are like, my mom went on a date with Ted Bundy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yes. There's more than one Ted Bundy date.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Like there's people who are like, I knew Ted Bundy or like he was a friend of the family.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Right. Well, you know, that's the Amityville horror story. Right. That's the, that's the real story behind that. Or at least that's the original story. Right. I mean, it's hard to be the eldest son and whatever that, whatever comes with that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. Yeah. If you have that combined with like, say a weak mom or a mom that lets the dad do whatever he wants.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And doesn't have, you know, any, any kind of handle on anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
We're basically talking through the Amityville Whores. But you're literally talking. Origin story. Yeah. But I mean, we're talking through a thing that we've all seen on 2020 one million times. It's a typical American setup.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Listen, you don't... Listen, I can't solve your problem for you. It's just a podcast, but... Listen to your mothers, Aaron and Georgia. I play the guitar. Girls love shit like that. Yeah. Be Artie. Be Artie. Grow your hair long and just be like, sorry, I'm Artie. Too bad. And then jump on the next train. I know a woman named Artie. So I was like, what are you talking about?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
The first time the main girl's friend Barb from school showed up. Oh my God, Barb is the best. Barb is the best. And Barb's hair, glasses, and clothes. To a person today, you're like, what the fuck?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
What do you think, Elvis? Are we done? Elvis? One day we're going to talk to him and he's going to be like, ladies, let's wrap it up. The gods have spoken.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
There's a Twitter. There's all kinds, of course, the Facebook page. There's all kinds of ways that you can participate. Thank you for listening.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And tell a sister.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Bye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
All right. Well, I mean, there was our brilliant... I feel very proud for some reason of us thinking of doing this episode. Of like all the things that we didn't know and all the things that we were innocent of and just kind of hanging out. I feel like this was great producing on our part.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah, a workaround. A workaround. A fix, a kind of like, it's the same. It's the reason that Guy Branum came on and answered legal questions. That's right, I forgot. Because we, it was like, I was like, I, it is nighttime. There's no way I'm finishing this document and I don't know what to do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah, because if you don't, you'll get left behind. And made fun of. And you can hear everybody on the rest of the maze having the best fucking time without you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
To get to the party that actually isn't there. And you just imagined it. But hey, you got out of the maze. You sure did. Good job. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Let's see. We're going to rename this. If we had to rename this episode from basically just an episode that says what it is. Yeah. Which I, you know, why rename it? But if we had to, the suggestion was when I say listen and judge. Yeah, that's it. Listen and love or listen and judge. That's pretty good. That sounds like us. Yeah, I mean, that's what you guys do. All right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
In the 80s, young girls dressed like they were doing a middle-aged secretary cosplay. Yeah. And I don't know why. It was like, we didn't have a choice.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, that's all we can squeeze out of that old rock. Thank you so much. You guys have been bringing the goods for us and making minisodes and hometown episodes possible for nine years.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
My friend Heidi Lilly, God rest her soul, had a pair of glasses that were tinted pink on the bottom and blue on the top in seventh grade. So it looked like she was wearing blush and eyeshadow and I was obsessed with them.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
A nice high neck, like a ruffle neck collar blouse. Yes. Made of polyester. There were a lot of like matching vests in the early 80s.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yes. Anyway, there were tons of layers. That show was great. It's a great show. Watch that. And I'm sure there's somebody out there that's watched the whole thing and gone, you're a day late and a dollar short. Good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Knock. Tales from the Crypt.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Well, I mean, like it's the reason it got so big and it is what it is, is because like, man, it was just like, what are we looking at? This is such a good idea.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And Winona Ryder coming back. Winona! Hometown hero. Oh, yeah, that's right. She's your hometown girl. Yeah, she is. Love her. This is really funny.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah, I bet. You know? Yeah. I'm sure I was like, ooh, this seems like a bad idea. But what's crazy is Aaron Brown, who helps us produce these Rewind episodes and works a lot on them a lot, and of course Allison, is They tried to find this article. They cannot find it. They're like, we don't understand, but it's not online. Like, we need someone to search it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Things don't disappear from the internet. So what we're thinking is, hey, if you, listener, can find this article we're talking about in this episode and you write in and show it to us, you will win a free sweatshirt of your choosing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
I have one that says sardines on the front of it. That's pretty cool. I cut the bottom off. That's so Gen Z of you. Right? I'm trying to get in there with the 20-year-olds.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
The minisodes are a joy. And I think sometimes people are like, oh, no, I'm just a hardcore true crime listener. And it's like, yeah, but this is adjacent in the perfect way where it starts out as people telling their hometowns. But then we got people to kind of tell us stories about their grandma and about this and about that. And now it is just good stories.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Or like my sister who has never listened to one episode of this podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Let's start. Okay. Start the podcast. Well, you know what we're going to do this week, everybody? Skippers, come back. Very special episode. Today's a very special episode because we have a Gmail inbox filled with hundreds of hometown murders. Hundreds. Hundreds. Hundreds.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
So we've, we decided we're going to dig in as we have been promising to do for a long time and just start reading some of them. So this is a long form hometown murder episode. And it's good because there's a lot of good murders in there. You're just going to get a bunch of minis at once for your buck.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
It's 100 degrees outside. I can't be expected to look on Wikipedia. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Guys, hang in there. Don't give up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Yeah. Last was 2666. Yeah, that's right. 27, that's weird.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Oh, okay. These are your private hometown murders.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Okay. I like to have secrets. You know that about me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Guys, as much as we love doing this podcast... It's not like we're that interested in it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
You can throw stones at glass houses all you want, but you spelled my name right at the top of the article and misspelled it in the middle. So guess what? You can go fuck yourself. Yeah, go fuck yourself.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
And I understand mine are the combinations of R's, F's. It's a question that no one's ever gotten it right. But you see it once and you read it and you're like, that's how you read it. Well, if you're a copy editor and you check it once, you better get the second one.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Bye. That's called biting the hand that feeds you. And so this is how we do it. All right. My first hometown murder is from someone named Charlotte. And she says, hi, George and Karen. I absolutely love the show. I have told my sister about your podcast and she is now a huge fan also. Thank you. Thank you. If you have a sister and you haven't told her yet. Oh, come on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Hello!
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Lee Hardstark, that's going out to you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Instead of being mad at her for chasing you down the hallway and beating you with a brush, Laura Kilgariff all my life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
My sister does not listen to this. And every time she's like, people keep telling me, like she went to her high school reunion. She's like, oh my God, people were telling me they like your podcast, but I don't even understand what you're doing. Like, Like she brings a level of disdain to everything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
This, if you don't know, is our Wednesday episode. It's new. And we recap our old shows. We give you updates on them, new commentary from 10 years later. I mean, you know, the whole thing. It's like a recap show, but you're doing it to yourself. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
No. All we have are you guys who listen and love, hopefully. Thanks, guys. Or listen and judge. I'll take anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Whatever. All right. So she said, many of the things you say are thoughts I have. But nobody to really tell them to, yeah, that would understand in parentheses. So when I first listened to your podcast, I was like, oh my God, there are others out there. That's exactly right, Charlotte. I grew up in a small town of about 4,200 south of Kansas City, Missouri.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
My sister babysat for a wonderful family. And when she went to college, I then filled in for her. So this would have been in 1979 or 1980. I was 13 or 14 years old. Oh, she'd like Stranger Things.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 27: Your Hometown Murder Email Round-Up
Sometimes my mom would come over and visit while I was babysitting, just swing by and say hi, chat for a bit. This particular night, my mom came over and by the time she left to go home, it was dark around 1030 or so. I thought I heard a car door and thinking it was the couple I was babysitting for, I went and turned the front porch light on for them. They didn't come in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
It was a beautiful, glorious time of just being you. Do you think we would have started a podcast if we had known that video would have been was like
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Which I didn't think I would do so late in life. I thought I'd have them all down, you know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
How to stop your face looking like it's fucking falling. What's the trick? I don't know. Bronzer. I think it's bronzer. And then it's also like some kind of weird eyeshadow thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
You know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. Like make shadows if they don't exist, essentially. No, it's been a nightmare. Not a nightmare. It's great. I'm lucky. But I've gotten all my filler dissolved because you can see the bumps on the video. I can totally see everything that's wrong now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
You know us, though. We, you know, we change along with the times. Like, we are with it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I'm literally wearing a shirt that says bullshit on it really big.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No, that was a long-running discussion or topic of discussion in this podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. And then I lost interest. But, you know, Riz Ahmed kept doing it for you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
It was. All right. Well, should we get into your story and also like the reason this episode's called Namaste Sexy? Absolutely. Okay. Let's hear Karen's story from this episode 31 about the Lululemon murderer. Or as I liked to say back then, not on purpose, Lululemon. Here we go. We all love a little luxury. I mean, it's so luxurious.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach. Quince is known for their Mongolian cashmere sweaters starting at $50.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I was scrolling the Quinn site today to order a couple things. I got jeans and some mulberry silk pillowcases. But the word that kept coming to mind when I saw it was classy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Like everything looks classy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash MFM to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash MFM.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And today, we're recapping episode 31, which we named Namaste Sexy. Such a good name. So good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
That is fascinating. I didn't know that. I know. That is definitely not one that I would have...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
For anyone listening who doesn't know, Lululemon is a fucking high-end... Kind of when I see girls wearing yoga pants with a little M and I'm like, oh, you spent a lot of money on yoga pants and didn't buy them a Rite Aid.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. And they have like the like. logo out so you can see them. Oh, hell yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. Instead of hiding your shame, they put it out there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Delete that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I don't give a fucking shit. Okay, great.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Lululemon.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Care about it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
But if you dig deeper, you find about... Yeah, you can't do that and fucking pants you about a target. Come on, man.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
It's like a, what's it called? When you're a hostage and you're like trying to send a message to the outside world.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah, that's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
It bums me out so much to think that what people expect from you when they're not willing to give you any respect at all. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
What's a kitchen party?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Are you fucking... How about for people who can't afford them and are homeless, you fucking assholes?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
You're asking them to exploit themselves. Yeah. Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
How do you feel so far? Fuck, I can't stop. I'm great. How are you?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I remember that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Whoa, start over.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
What does that mean? Okay. So they're promoting being drunk or stoned or having an orgasm so that you can be creative.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Oh, I bet those are worth some money on eBay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
So... Yeah. I have... Yeah. Go on. Just how, you're saying? How? Yeah. But also... But also good for them, but don't shop there. Like, I don't, they can do that. It's fine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
How long would that take to... Hit someone 330 times. And how much rage and how personal.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
How many do you drink? Diet Coke? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I like that every episode now you have to admit, like you have to confess something you do. That's like, because you told us you smoked cigarettes last time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I don't know if I would like, how would you get involved? It just so depends on the situation. You can't expect people to be being, you know, getting murdered. No. If you hear a fight, you're not like, I'm going to go make sure no one's getting murdered. No, not at all.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No, yeah, you should have checked that out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Okay, no, you should have fucking gone over there. I guess I buried the lead on that one. I should have brought that up earlier.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Right. Because it's very, very small. Except don't because your fucking family is going to murder you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I wonder if that's the reason why we're so fascinated with stranger murders. What? The cord? Oh, I think you're... Are you hitting it with real life? Okay. I wonder if that's why we're so fascinated about stranger murders is because they're so rare. Yes. And so they sound like there are a lot more of them, but in actuality...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Oh, what's a good one? What's a good one? What's a fun one? I have adult acne. Okay. That sucks. I can relate to that. Yeah, I don't like that. That's about it. That's all you're willing to give? No, I mean, my life is a fucking op. I have nothing that I hide.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Man, I love when they fucking trap someone like that. Or if you had just said yes, you would not have been a suspect.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. If you're going to hit someone 30, 300 something times and the other person just gets a little. Yeah, that's crazy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And walked around through as if a man was walking through. What an idiot that she didn't grab both the fucking. Oh, because it's like the display pair. Right. Oh, my God. So it's like brilliant and so stupid at the same time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
You can't.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Um,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Gross, disgusting, horrible humanity. Check out this hideousness.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. I thought she just like went in there and shot her. Like, I don't even know any of the details.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I'm sure there are. I want to see them without the body, so I'm not that fucked up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Namaste. Namaste, Karen. Namaste, everybody. Should we end on an om? Well, well, fuck. All right. That's a gruesome and sad one. Horrible. We're back. Karen, do you have any updates?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I'm going to have to work that day, but like they still have to come to the fucking.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Leave me alone. I mean, as someone who's done that job before. Yeah. At Funky Diva and back in 1999, like I know how it goes and I hated every minute of doing it and I hate every minute of it being done to me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
But I bet you better fucking get said hi to, though, like if you're a secret shopper.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
You don't have a huge nose. I think I have a pretty buttony nose.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No one needs help finding anything unless it's like a movie and they're like on a mission to get this one thing. No one needs help finding anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. Like, I don't want to be sped through this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No, totally. That's a long Zen journey that you want to take when you're there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I've noticed, yeah, I have a large jaw in them, which I actually have an undersized jaw, hence my Invisalign. That's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Can you draw us better, please? Draw me. Everything I know is a lot smaller. Listen, if you want to make it onto Instagram.com slash my favorite murder, you got to draw us true to life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Ready for mine?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Okay. Mine is about the tent girl and the dough network.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Do you know them?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No, D-O-E as in like Jane Doe.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Like, doe a dead body. A female dead body. Oh, my God. I had to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
You did it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Did it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Did it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
All right. So on May 17th, 1968, a well digger named Wilbur Riddle was killing time between jobs picking up glass insulators on a dirt road. It was just outside Lexington, Kentucky. So he's scavenging.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
He comes across a large green tarpaulin, and that was commonly used by carnival workers to store the big, like, big top tents in. And inside, he finds the new decomposing body of a young woman. She appeared to be in her teens, and she had been dead for months. They couldn't figure out her exact cause of death, but it was thought that she'd been knocked out with a blow to the head.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And then tied up inside the bag to slowly suffocate. And the way they knew this is that her nails were worn down and broken. Oh, no. As if she had been trying to escape. Nightmare. Yes. She couldn't be identified and became known as the tent girl. Sorry, is 68 you said? Yeah. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
It became a local legend and her grave had a headstone that they had put a sketch of what the police had sketched what she might have looked like. And it said, tent girl found May 17th, 1968 on highway, US Highway 25 North, died about April, like all these weird statistics about her. So it was a place where local teens would visit to cause trouble and to scare each other.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And like on Halloween night, you had to go touch the gravestone and run away and stuff. And so a couple decades later, there's a teenager who moves into town named Todd Matthews. And he hears about the story of Tent Girl by a girl he's got a crush on. Nine months later, he and this girl get married. And it turns out her name is Lori Riddle. Her father was Wilbur Riddle, who found Tent Girl. Ooh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
So Todd Matthews becomes obsessed with the case. And for decades, he's determined to find out the true identity of Tent Girl. Todd's two siblings had died at birth and it really stuck with him. And so he says that he felt like Tent Girl had become his sibling until he could find her real family, which is so fucking sweet. I might cry.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
So when the internet's created, he saves up enough money for... He works low-income jobs, saves up enough money to buy a computer, and then he trolls chat rooms and search engines and missing personal listings, searching for details that match Tent Girl. And he creates a website devoted to finding her identity. And this is before any of the web sleuthing shit is going on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
In his mind, he's just going to email as many people as possible until he finds out who this missing person is. So, Cuts of the Night, January 1998. And Todd has been online for hours looking at random stuff when he comes across a classified ad from a woman who's searching for her missing 24-year-old sister, Barbara Ann Hackman Taylor.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Todd sees the three words, Lexington, 1967, missing, and he knows it's her immediately. So in December 1967, 24-year-old Barbara Ann Hackman was a mother and a waitress. She had married young and then mysteriously disappeared. They thought it was a teenager originally when they found the body missing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I know. I'm embarrassed. Don't be. Go to the Instagram and you'll see a bunch of like we post that shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
But she's actually 24, which is just another reason why cops... It wouldn't have taken someone amateur to find this person because you're looking for a teenager. You're not going to find someone with totally different statistics. Right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
So Matthews arranges to have Tent Girl's body exhumed. And in April 1998, DNA tests prove that Barbara Ann Hackman is Tent Girl.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I know. Wow. The family chooses to have Barbara's remains kept in the original spot with the original headstone. They just added a little stone underneath with her real name, nickname, date of birth, presumed date of death, and the inscription loving mother, grandmother, and sister. I know. She's a grandmother at 24? No, I think she had her daughter and now she's a grandmother. Okay. All right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
So he died before Tent Girl was identified. But Barbara's husband, George Earl Taylor, never filed a missing persons report. And he told Barbara's family that she had left him for another man.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
All right. So you know how she was fucking found in a tarpaulin. Am I saying that right? That was commonly used by carnival workers to store big tents. Guess what George's job was.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yes, he was a carnival worker. He died of cancer in October 1987. And I hope he rots in hell.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. Good. Glad. Fuck yourself. Fuck yourself.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Isn't that crazy? Like, what is what? There's nothing besides like besides fingerprints that could have like made it more of a like, here's who done it. Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I won't. Did they like tie it back to the carnival he was working at?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Those are great questions. I was just excited that they put that together, but gosh, I wish they had done that before he died of cancer.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Can I do a different story? No. I'm kidding. All right. So, so the ending of this is pretty amazing that Todd Matthews goes on to help create the Doe Network, which which I'm obsessed with. It's an online database containing thousands of profiles for unidentified does. Jane and John does and baby does and amateur sleuths try to connect unidentified bodies with missing people. Amazing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Like people who are like nurses and fucking janitors and all these crazy people who like are doing this for free in their free time. Just sit there and try to find matching characteristics to get these people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
found and get them you know so is it like web sleuthing where anyone can do it yeah enter the information they started they started regulating it because i think that a lot of um a lot of police were getting annoyed with all the calls they were getting like i think
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
it's this person I think it's that person so there's like for each each town or each city there's there's like a main person that and it has to go through like a crazy vetting process now so if you're like I think this missing person is this unidentified body they have to like it has to be checked out by like a bunch of people who have been certified by the donut work to do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
But yeah, you can kind of just like look for, it's almost like that game where you, what was the memory one where you turn over a face and you turn it back over and you have to remember where the face is. It's called memory. Thank you. So he also co-founded NAMUS. I think it's supposed to be NAMUS, but there's no E. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And another thing they do is they hire people who draw portraits and stuff just for free. We'll take a dead body and sketch out what the face would look like or take a missing person and sketch out what their face would look like now. Oh. And they all do it for free. Wow. It's pretty amazing. Next place where we give money for the t-shirts? I don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Shit. And that's 2007. Yeah. The National Crime Information Center records nearly 90,000 missing people at any given time. So 40,000 of those unmarked, unidentified people, their websites list 70 successful identity resolutions that the site has assisted with. Oh, that's nice. 36 had occurred within the first five years. And Tent Girl was the first case to be identified by use of the internet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Wow. Isn't that incredible? Todd Matthews. He just like was an obsessive compulsive with this case. And because of that, so many families have been able to find out what happened to their loved ones. And I'm so fascinated with those stories of like, she left home one day and we thought we'd hear from her again and we didn't. And we don't know if she's alive or not.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
She might've just fucking moved on and hated our dad and you know. Right. But then they find, they're like, you know, by the side of the road, this person with this crazy tattoo is found. And why can't we identify this person? And so they put all this stuff in the thing. That's very cool. Yeah. Tent girl. There's a photo of her. It looks a lot like the drawing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Sad, right? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. Yeah. And I've kind of been wanting to do, I've been thinking a lot lately about like, what can I, how can I volunteer my time in some way that we're, this true crime thing we're doing? And I'm like, you know, do I work for, do I go volunteer for women's shelter or something like that? And this is like, I feel like that's what these people are doing is they're like,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
They're not making any money. They have jobs. They don't need them. They just want to help. It's just they're really into these crazy puzzles and piecing these things together and they just do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I like that. So maybe I'll do something like that. And I can't draw, but I can look at tattoos and remember if... they were found on dead bodies or not do it I'm really good at that remembering no I'm not
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
That's a good one. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Well, I guess that's it. Yeah. Thank you for listening. Thank you so much. Can you guys, if you rate, review and subscribe on iTunes, that helps us a lot and we appreciate it. And gosh, it's nice having you guys listen in this podcast. Also, Elvis is sitting right in front of Stephen's face because Stephen gave him a cookie last time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Gee whiz. Gee whiz. Gee willikers, everybody. Thank you. Thanks. And you know what? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Bye. Bye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yes, there are updates. This is one of those cases I love that there is this tragic story and something beautiful comes out of it because of humans and humanity and... You know, caring about causes that have nothing to do with you and just personalizing them. So I love this story. And I love Todd Matthews. And unfortunately, he passed away earlier this year. He was only 53.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And his contributions to the cyber detective community live on through the Doe Network and NamUs. And there's a article you can check out if you want on Vice called The Pioneering Cyber Detective Who Cracked a 30-Year-Old Cold Case by Sammy Carmella that I recommend. And together, the Doe Network and NamUs have resolved over 65,000 missing, unidentified, and unclaimed persons' cases.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Which is incredible. So get involved in that if you're good at sleuthing. I'm not. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Well, we did an Australian murder once. So maybe that's why. Oh, that's right. They like love us for doing that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Well, yeah, like when I had a boring desk job and didn't do anything, I wish I had known about this. Instead, I was just blogging.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
So that doesn't feel as good as like helping find missing people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
That's all. That's my fucking goal in life and my creed, my creed and my motto.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. So no more number puns. Thank God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And so if we're naming this episode today based on something we said in the episode, would it be trailer spoiler? Which Karen jokes she's going to spoil the trailer of the new JonBenét Ramsey docuseries. Don't spoil. You can't even fucking spoil a trailer these days.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No, I hear my gosh is definitely something that has, you know, regularly come out of my mouth. Is that your grandma? Who says that? I don't know. I think it's like quaint and old-timey, and I like it like that. Yeah, it is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Because I don't care about taking God's name in vain, so why would I? Gosh, it's nice. Gosh, it's nice. I guess, you know what? It's like a humbled thing. I'm just humbled. Gosh. Golly. Yeah. Golly gee. Golly gee. Well, gosh, guys, thanks so much for listening. Gosh, I'd pick that title for the show title because I love it. It's nice. It's nice. And so are you guys. And I appreciate you still.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Gosh. Gosh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
He went on a paper route, murdered his fucking family. Blamed his dad, washed his clothes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Oh my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Because I can't sit still.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
That's it. It's perfect. Okay. Yeah, that's the sound. Listen, I have ADD, I think. Right. At least that's what my psychiatrist tells me. Okay. I know. But it's, you know, I'm going to sacrifice that for the podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Thank you. You have a button. And myself. You have a button nose. Thank you. And two eyes made out of coal. We also had, we just ended our last t-shirt sales and we are giving half the money to endthebacklog.org. Nice. How much is that? Do I say? Because what if it's like, that's not what if they're like, well, it was just a one month sale, right? We're sending two grand to endthebacklog.org.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
That's great, right? That's good. It's two more than they fucking had before. I got so freaked out when I posted like, hey, we're going to get 50% to end the backlog because I expected people, this is the opposite of what happened, but I expected people to be like, Only 50%? You're being so greedy. And then all these people are like, that's so incredible. I'm like, oh, okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Like I'm just being hard on myself.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Is there anything else that you love right now? Yeah. Anything going on in the news? We know JonBenet's brother is getting... Oh, did you watch? You and I both looked at each other at the exact same moment. Watching that trailer? That JonBenet docu-series trailer. We have to watch it together. I insist you watch it. Can I tell you something? What? A magazine wants us to do...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
recap every night of it. That's awesome. I know. The trailer gave me freaking chills.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
And then like, oh, when they played the, when she hung up the phone and you can hear her in the background. I still don't hear it. Do you? Have you listened to that? You mean when they say like they reduced all the sound? Yeah. And they hear her say, I'm not talking to you. Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah. I love that child. She can't take, take ownership of the thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
No. Oh, I know someone who worked on it that I dated, so I didn't watch it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Because you're mad. No, he was very nice. I don't want to step on his show.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
When they point it out and they're like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
would they like pause it and be like this thing right here and that thing oh I love that yeah yeah you should watch that show it's pretty good I don't know if it's on anything but okay well um did you catch up on the night of we've only got one episode left I gotta say you're out everyone telling me about stuff about it and talking to other people about it has made me want to watch it less
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Thank you. That actually means a lot to me. But what everyone's telling me about it is like, I don't care about the prison stuff. I want the trial stuff. And from what someone said to me, someone was like, and I'm not gonna take responsibility, but I don't remember who said it was like, listen, I watched Orange is the New Black. I don't need to know what's going on in prison.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Like, so did I. Totally the same. It's totally the same. I just like... I want to know the way that they find out how the investigation goes, how the trial goes. Stuff in prison, I don't care about.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
a prisoner it was a warden um yeah i don't like i know it's living hell and there are many many people in this country that are there yeah and that's awful to me especially people people are there that like oh it was really hard for me to watch him get taken in to get out what's it called when you get processed in yeah because it's like no one gives a shit about you and like
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Immediately are just trash. Yeah. Like the way, you know, when you wait in line at a post office and you get to the next teller and you can tell they've had a hard day and they fucking hate everything. So you can smile and be like, hi, and they can be nice. And so they'll give you a better experience and be happier. Yeah. You can't do that in prison. What am I supposed to do?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Someone made a, I want his DNA inside me. A couple people made it. Someone made a valentine last week, I said. Your serial killer valentine. Yeah. I said, I want his DNA inside me, meaning I want to have his baby because he's so cute that I want like that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
OK, you know what I don't like about I don't like innocent people in prison that people like Larry Singleton deserve to be in prison. Good. Have a fucking horrible time. But innocent people. Oh, my God. That terrifies me. It's horrible.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
I won't not try it. It does disappoint me. I mean, I don't know what happened. Maybe I'll watch the last episode. Is that okay? Can I do that? Hey, it's your life. Jump in, jump out. I don't know. Yeah. Can they please bring the family back on ABC? That's all I ask. Is that all you want this Christmas? That's all I want for Hanukkah Christmas.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy
Basically. I'm first this week, right? Okay, go. Tell me. I think I am. Mine is short too. So take your time. Okay, we are back from the intro. Karen, remember when podcasts used to just be audio and you could wear whatever you want? You could sit however you want.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Okay, we're in. This is fun. So we start opening like gifts from listeners, which I know scared the shit out of me in the very beginning.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
That sounds like me. That sounds like me through and through. Taking precautions, hurting yourself on accident. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
We must know. And actually, so what's really cool about these gifts that we just opened is that at Holly's store, who gave us the H.H. Holmes murder castle puzzle, is still active at hollycardin.com. Yeah, she has a whole empire over there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I think this one is necessary. Also, happy New Year's Day if you're listening on the day that this comes out. It's 2024. It's 2024 now. Five. Five for you. Five. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Because I want to watch it now, though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
In the state fair or the, what's it called? Fairground? World's Fair. World's Fair.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
You know what's so crazy is that when this came out, this episode, TikTok didn't exist. Is that true?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
It's funny how our stories start to sync up at this point, where it's like we both had the same mindset. And so this episode is especially horrible because of that. But I also find it really interesting as I was reading through, it's clear that you and I are understanding how to talk about true crime in a way that we hadn't been taught. May I correct just starting to understand?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
In a way that... We weren't taught and that we were figuring out from listeners' notes and from the way it made us feel. Yes. And so there's a lot of comments here that it's almost like you can hear us feeling out our own empathy. Right. And what it means and what it doesn't excuse, but how to think about empathy. These stories. These stories, yeah. And so it is a different time completely.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And I think you and I are clearly, you know, feeling our way through that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Salacious. You're trying to, you know... Salacious.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Like, the story can be nuanced without taking away the perpetrator's culpability. Right. And you can understand a story and people's motivations in ways without saying that they didn't deserve the punishment or that justice exists and so does empathy. But how do we look at that? And I think we had to do that in a different way for this podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
All right, so let's get into Karen's story, a classic story, one that I can't think about without thinking about you as a child because she truly does look exactly like you. Yeah. This is the story of Mary Bell.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Oh, yes, that's right. Line. Because today we are recapping episode 26, Little Babies We Were. And we named it 2666 because of course we did. Punk rock. Yeah. And it came out originally on Thursday, July 21st, 2016.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
It's the same one from Ghostbusters, first Ghostbusters movie, right? The big, huge cavernous ghosty.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Mary. Anyways. Sorry. It, um, Lisa.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
But I can see that point. I'm not going to argue. I agree.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Okay, but I also want to say another thing about it. Whenever there's like a child molester or a murderer or someone, we talk about their past and we're like, yeah, that sucks. I don't think we were softer on her. I don't either. I think we're always like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah. Whatever. We're just saying it's understandable that this person didn't become a normal member of society.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah. The effect that they killed someone and murdered them and raped and all these horrible things. That's the effect. You know, there's a cause and effect. Yeah. Et cetera.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
68.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Even as a non-17-year-old sex worker that I was, the thought of having a child at 17...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Oh, for fuck's sake.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I was wearing tiny clothes. We were, we talk about in the beginning of this, like the worry that more fireworks are going to happen. Oh, yeah. Because that's Los Angeles, the first... Like a couple weeks before the 4th of July and a couple weeks after in Los Angeles. It's just constant fireworks.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah. You're like, this isn't a safe place.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Oh, my God. Can you what would you do? I'd scream. I'd run screaming. I mean, a little girl, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Someone said they almost got in a car accident because they heard the fireworks from the week before and drove off the road. I thought it was happening in there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
This is what happens when you're a fucking 10-year-old murderer, is that you don't understand.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
smart investigating by the cops that they like figured this shit out pretty quickly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Like you're not even like, we're going to get this guy. It's like, wait a second. You just said this wrong thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Why are you laughing? Psychopath? Because it's me. She's also rubbing her hands together right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
It's just... What's so crazy is the, like... When adults kill, they try really hard to hide it and try to outsmart people. That's what you do. But this little person who, I guess you can argue, didn't understand that either death was permanent or what it meant...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah. No. No. Either way... Facts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
But she also had to be a little bit, like, arrested in her... In... Yes. She couldn't be smart enough. She couldn't have been smarter than a 10-year-old. She just didn't understand right from wrong. Oh, no? You don't think so? Go on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
whole building collapses someone's on some social media site said that they almost got in a car accident when they heard the firework because they thought it was a gunshot oh no i know sorry we were just as scared as you were we were more scared because as loud as it was on the podcast it was fucking 15 times louder in real life yeah i'm not
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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At least.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Okay, wow, we are back. Karen, do you have any updates? I wanted to know, like, where is she now? So bad. No one knows. It's good that we don't. Yes. However, there's this part of me that wants to know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And I feel like psychology in the past like 10 years, at least for myself, is learning that the tools you learned as a child that you had to learn that helped you get through that period were actually helpful. And so in a way, this empathy that Mary Bell was able to turn off completely and have no care about anyone else and not understand other people's feelings was...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And what is it, September? I mean, how much longer? I don't know. So prepare yourself and your dogs, because I'm sure some people's has... They're like, the underjacket's off, but...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
was actually beneficial to her because she was being horribly abused. It just turned into hurting other people as well, you know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah. The tools that you learn to protect yourself, you know, can turn on you and aren't always positive. Right. So...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
That's what everyone's doing. And you think it's who you are. It's your personality. I'm talking about myself at this point about like dissociating. I'm only ever talking about myself. All the time. And that's yours. I'm talking about yourself all the time. It really helps. You don't realize this isn't your personality.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
You don't think marine biology is a fucking coping mechanism too? I think it is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Mine is also a child murder. Is it really? Yeah. Man, this is the wrong episode for parents. It is very weird. That's crazy. It's very weird. But this is a parental murder. And this one has stuck with me. I've read about it for a long time because there's a photograph of the little girl who gets killed. Oh, you're not. Oh, you're saying the child is murdered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Do you hear that? Yes. It sounds like thunder. My fucking downstairs neighbor plays some video game. World of Warcraft. Call of Duty. Yes. Call of Duty. Yeah. It's just. So if you hear that, I'm sorry. So Lisa Steinberg, this poor little angel baby. Yeah. And that's the one. Oh, my God. It's heartbreaking. This is the worst story. Okay. Sorry. It's okay. No, you're right. I'm breathing. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So it's in 1981, 45-year-old Hedda Nussbaum and 46-year-old Joel Steinberg, who was a defense attorney who sometimes handled adoption cases. Joel was. They took custody of an infant girl. They named Lisa and they illegally adopted her. The child's birth mother had paid Steinberg, the attorney, a $500 legal fee to place the child with a Roman Catholic family. But they just kept her instead.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I know. I know that well. I put a collar on my cat once and came back and it was like, here's what I think of it. Yeah. Get fucked yourself. Get fucked. I mean, I wouldn't want a fucking collar. I mean, I guess I did when I was 14 and thought I was punk. I wore a collar. I mean, that was the 90s, right? It was. Wasn't it? It was all about cat collars and shit back then. Yeah. Punk, fake punk rock.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
They were Jewish. I don't know. I don't think that matters. But they, whatever. Anyways. So this Hedda and Joel were a well-educated, they were upper class people. New York couple. They lived in Greenwich Village in New York City. At school, Lisa's teachers said she was bright and friendly, but they worried about her arriving at school with bruises and chunks of hair missing from her head.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And she would tell them that her little brother, who was also a younger, adopted child, had hit her. And none of them had ever made reports of abuse before. Which changed a lot of stuff in the system. So there's a photo from Halloween the day before this big incident happens that one of the teachers took of Lisa. And it's just a photo of her at her desk. It's Halloween.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
All the other children are dressed up. And she's wearing her normal clothes. And she's just kind of staring off with this sad face. Like an empty sad face. And the next day... On November 1st, 1987, Hedda, the mother, calls the police to report that her daughter had choked on food. That's what she said.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And when the police arrived, they found six-year-old Lisa Steinberg unconscious, and she had multiple bruises on her body, and the mother, Hedda, claimed that she had fallen a lot lately on her roller skates. So, according to initial reports, on November 1st, At around 7 p.m., Joel Steinberg had somehow rendered Lisa unconscious with severe blows to the head.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And what Hedda later said as the reasoning was that Lisa wanted to go to dinner with her father, but he did not want to take her. And then he inflicted the head injury because she wouldn't stop bugging him about wanting to go to dinner. But before he left the apartment, Lisa was unconscious. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So he left and the mother, Hedda, was alone with the kid who was dying for roughly 10 hours, failing to notify police or medical personnel. Joel left and came back many times. They were freebasing cocaine sometimes together because they were also like weird drug addicts. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And she says she didn't, Hedda said she didn't call authorities because she believed that Joel had supernatural healing powers. And she was waiting for him to come home and fix her.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
No, don't. So around 6 a.m. the next morning, Lisa stopped breathing. And shortly after, Steinberg called 911 at Nussbaum's urging. Lisa died four days later in the hospital, and it was determined the cause of death was a head injury apparently inflicted by what they say was a rubber-headed hammer. Holy shit. I know. It's heartbreaking. The St.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Vincent doctors, this is according to Joyce Johnson, who wrote a book called What Lisa Knew, the doctor showed a, quote, map of pain on her body. Ugh. I know. This poor little thing, man. I wish I... They also, let's see, the house was filthy and contained large quantities of cocaine and other drugs. And the couple was arrested on child abuse charges.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Totally. I still have mine. It still smells like... like um victoria's secret uh apple spray apple body spray no oh no you mean sorrow yeah yep it still smells like ecstasy yeah uh hey how are you how was your week what's going on hi um i've just been working oh this is my favorite murder oh guys listen i mean i figure if you press play on this you probably know that
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
New York law stated at the time that if one parent beats a child and the other stays silent about it, each is equally guilty. That's good. I know. But Hedda was, I mean, is it because is that giving any understanding to the To the other parent who didn't do it, who was probably abused as well and victimized. True, true, true. We don't know. But here's the difference.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So Hedda was later found to have been abused by Joel throughout their relationship. She suffered from nine broken ribs, a broken jaw and a broken nose. And if you look at photos of her at this trial and right after this happened, this person is fucking disfigured. Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Like this person's that she had to get cartilage from her, quote, good ear taken out to reconstruct her nose, which had collapsed because he'd punched her so many times.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So she wasn't prosecuted due to the belief that years of abuse had rendered her incompetent at the time of the murder. And that makes sense. Yeah. And yeah, let's we'll talk about.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
fucking culpability man instead she was sent to a psychiatric hospital in exchange for her testimony against joel had it was not prosecuted and joel was charged with first degree manslaughter so the trial okay go ahead why not why not murder i don't know i don't need it okay Oh, you know why?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Because later it was said that if Hedda had called the ambulance at that moment, Lisa would have survived for sure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
What's around us right now? Seafoam green wall.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
What do you feel under your hand?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
it was unbelievable. She wrote a book about, uh, she does like, uh, talks and, uh, about being abused, abusive relationships. And she wrote a book about, about it that I didn't really want to include because I don't want to make this about. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we, you know, I'm not, she wrote a book.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
When, when she met him, I mean, This is the problem is I've never been... It's not a problem. This is great. I've never been in an abusive relationship before. So I don't know the fucking... The head games and the way you have to... Rationalize things. Rationalize things in your head because this person you care about...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
you know, is doing these things and you want them to believe that they, that they have no control over that. They're not doing it on purpose, that they would never hurt you. Otherwise your whole fucking world is just shattered and that's right. Insane. And on top of that, they're using strong, they're freebasing at this point. I mean, freebasing cocaine is like, you're, you're doing crack.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
You're a crackhead. You're a psychopath. Yeah. Okay. And there was also some weird, like, cult stuff, and they had been convincing her that she, like, mind games with her, that she had been sleeping around and had been hypnotized, and there was just some very fucked up mind games with this guy, Joel. Ugh. So... So, all right. So the trial.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So this is actually the first trial which made New York, which turned New York into the 44th state to allow television cameras in the courtroom. Oh, hell yeah. And this was like fucking watched. Like people tuned in constantly for this. So during the trial, they said that Lisa's injuries were severe, but she would have almost certainly survived if given prompt medical treatment.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So this is probably why he had manslaughter. So... The jury wanted to convict Steinberg on the more serious charge of second degree murder, but they couldn't because, so they could only convict him of the, of the second, of the second most serious charge, which is first degree manslaughter. So the judge then sentenced him to the maximum penalty then available.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Guess, guess what, guess how long that is, Karen?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Eight and one third to 25 years in prison. And he's a lawyer, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So on two occasions, so Steinberg served his time. On two occasions, he was denied discretionary parole because he never expressed any remorse for the killing. He never said he was, he hit her. He was always an argument that something must have happened with Hedda. Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
But on June 30th, 2004, he was paroled under the state's, quote, good time law, meaning he did good time. He was a good inmate. Congratulations.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
All right. Okay. It mandates the release of inmates who exhibit good behavior while incarcerated after having served as little as two thirds of the maximum possible sentence. After his release, he moved to Harlem. And he works in the construction industry. He continues to maintain his innocence.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
But there was this really great New York Magazine article where this journalist, I don't have his name, was like, clearly like this guy's full of shit. He was interviewing his attorney, who's like just a fucking dick lick motherfucker. Excuse me. Why now? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Why, excuse myself?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Something about dick lick motherfucker was a little more extreme. That was one step too far. Weirdly, that's something I say on the regular. Dick lick motherfucker. Learn it. In the magazine article, he like needled Joel and finally Steinberg finally admitted that he, quote, pushed his daughter a little, quote, with the soft pad, you know, on your palm. He finally kind of gave in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
because the whole article they were trying to, the lawyer was trying to make it seem like Joel was the victim of this like media slander to make, had to look innocent and him look guilty. And it's like, just what a piece of shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
In 2003, Steinberg was ordered to pay Lisa's biological mother, the one who gave her up for adoption, 15 million for the quote, heinous outrageous crime of murdering Lisa. Which I'm a little bit like, Do you deserve that money? No, but still, I like the idea he has to pay. And then but then a civil suit Hedda was wanted to collect three point six million from Joel for eight years of beating.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
She said she endured and the permanent disfigurement she has suffered, which at that point I'm a little like this child died. You need to walk the fuck away. Yeah. Or am I being insensitive to abuse victims?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
The thing about it is, is like you were an adult in this relationship as mind fucked as you were, as victimized as you were. You stayed in it. You chose to stay in it until. this awful thing happened. If that hadn't happened, you would have stayed in it and the children would have still been abused. It's just so happens that, that Lisa died, that you got out of it. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And there's so many examples, I'm sure listeners too, who have figured out a way to get out of abusive relationships and how fucking difficult it is and awful it is, but you fucking do it. And that's your choice as an adult. OK, we're back.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah, it's hard to listen to us talk about and debate even with ourselves and our own conscience, like who deserves what and why as you know, when it comes to justice and reparations. And, you know, it's just such a different it's such a different mindset back in 2016 than it is today.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Totally. And you know what's interesting to me about this is I am in the middle of J.C. Dugard's memoir, A Stolen Life. And it is harrowing and difficult and mirrors this story in a lot of ways and is really, even now in 2025, opening my eyes to the abuse that victims endure. And J.C. just goes through this thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
That is mind-blowing and I will never understand and you can never understand unless you've been through it. And just the space you need to leave open for people who have been in abusive relationships and that just the understanding that you will never understand. Yes. So I'm trying to wrap my brain around that and looking at the story from that angle as well.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
It was really eye-opening to me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah, it's not. I guess the secret is not to try or care or care. Yeah, that's true. Here's a good segue into the presents we just got. I'm holding a cold beer to the stab wound that I gave myself.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
frustrating that's a huge part of the story is like in her mind it's like no one cared yeah no one was looking and it was just it was just a peek over the fence away because they didn't realize that the backyard went on further than it did right there's like a false just where she was being kept yep yeah yeah wow that's incredible i mean be the nosy neighbor you guys
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I have a couple case updates. The baby from the story, baby Mitchell, Lisa's adopted younger brother, was returned to his birth mom. He was given a new name, and he eventually graduated with honors from his high school, earned a college degree, got married, and pursued a career in banking. So...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Thank God for that. Thank God. Around the time Joel was being released from prison, which fucking Jesus Christ, Hedda Nussbaum changed her name and moved out of New York so he wouldn't be able to find her. Her exact whereabouts are unknown. And, you know, you heard us talking about abusive relationships.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So if you or anyone you know is struggling to leave an abusive partner, we wanted to give you a few resources.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And their website is thehotline.org, where you can find resources and also get involved in supporting survivors, either through volunteering or, hey, donation. Oh, we do those? Shall we? Let's please. $10,000 to thehotline.org, the National Domestic Violence Hotline.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
We ended it on donation and a Happy New Year. That's right. Hey, Happy New Year, everybody. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
It's one of those things, and this happens to me a lot, where I'm glad it happened because it's worth it. Like I run into stuff all the time and like do dumb shit. And I'm like, I'm so glad that that happened. Yes. That's humor and life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah. Why? The majority of my bruises I don't remember getting. And it's not because I'm constantly drunk. I'm not. You're not. And I mean, when I'm drunk, I'm smooth as shit, too. Like, I'm good. I'm much better in person when I'm drunk than...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah, I like I think I like understand moments so much better and understand people and get.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I might do this. I might trace over the handwriting later. It's so satisfying. Have you ever tried that?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah, she wanted to be a scientist. She's basically, if you guys have seen the documentary, The Nutshell Studies, where this woman way back when really wanted to be a doctor or a nurse and she wasn't allowed to because of her family. I think she was a rich, I think she was from a wealthy family. So instead she started to make detailed miniature models of composite crime scenes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
So she just made miniature crime scenes so that cops could study them without screwing up the crime scene. And she's just had this huge effect on crime. crime scene procedure and she's incredible. I love Candace. Um, you can get these at smut punks. It's S M U T P U N X.com. And she's going to make, she makes other buttons and stuff that she just makes shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
And I haven't seen a fucking zine in real life in so long. I know. No, I never did. I made a zine for, um, It's like a tribute to Ray Bradbury and delight combined.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
That's what I liked when I was 16. So seeing a zine is like exciting. It's very cool. And I think you should, I think we should all support zines.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
You gotta watch it. It's great. Candice, thank you. Thank you so much.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I'm so excited. I kind of like I kind of begged Karen for it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
That's right. And you can get this at... Where can you get her? The puzzle? Yeah, wait, wait, wait. Okay. You can get... HollyCarden.com. So it's H-O-L-L-Y-C-A-R-D-E-N. And I think she's going to start just making true crime puzzles. That's amazing. I cannot wait to make this. I'll take photos.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I know. I am not.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
Yeah, I think they want a shout out, which they absolutely.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
That's why it wasn't a bomb, because I feel like they wouldn't go to the trouble of making it pleasant.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
It was a bomb. Oh, my God. I didn't think that. Yeah, that's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
A lot of them are named, like have quotes from the podcast. There's a fucking lip balm called Elvis Want a Cookie. And once we got excited and exclaimed that when we saw it, Elvis lost his fucking mind because he thought he was getting one. So I had to give him one. Yeah, we kept saying Elvis...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
i won't say it again i know he's right here uh but yeah there's i mean our names are on he on lip balms this is this is right up my alley so she's gonna make them she just wanted us to get the first ones which is so fucking cool yeah um so you can go to the the base element at etsy yeah and buy murderino and non-murderino you guys we can have our own makeup line
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 26: Twenty Six Six Six
I really fucking lost my shit this last week. I talked to her about it. I got some pepper spray. The reality is it's not going to fucking, I mean, what are the chances that's going to happen? It's not.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Look at our... Look at our gift shelf. Oh, my God. I kind of just want to do this for the rest of the show. This is pretty fun. Okay, here's the next one. Unveil, Karen. Oh, my God. This is a precious moment. Oh, my God. What is it called? Statue. What is it? Yes, Precious Moments. Figurines of you and I as precious moments. Dolls, this is insane. This is from Lindsay Cook.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It says, Lindsay's hobby is altered moments, which is taking old precious moments, figurines, and transforming them into fun new characters, bringing new life And fresh perspective. Holy. I have a hot dog behind my back.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I have pigtails and a tiny hot dog behind my back. And there are crows on the top. And we're standing next to a tree with SSDGM carved in it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
She can't believe it. Oh, here's some pictures from the original. Oh, so she took them and like turned them into us somehow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah, it's like a sad beige Precious Moment statue from your grandma's house that she turned into...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
this beautiful thing you guys god that's funny so talented i'm incredible impressed i can't wait to see the rest of them say their name again sorry it's lindsay cook and we'll be posting this this is so freaking cool it's so good all of them now like this is next level thank you guys so much we'll be doing more of these we're gonna have a live stream like this could be its own episode it's so cool this is this is legendary it's so clever this is unbelievable wow
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yes, that looks so... What an array of beautiful, talented pieces. I am blown away. Like, my face is warm.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Can I start with a really embarrassing corrections corner that I've been now waiting two weeks? Yes, please.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah. But it's going to happen. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Because we have to always have electronic Lazy Susan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
We got it. We have to put it to use or it's a waste of money.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Let's not waste exactly right funds.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
All right. All right. Thanks, Alejandra.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That was super fun. Well, thank you guys so much. That was incredible. Unbelievable. Real quick, before we get to the ERM highlights and our stories, we want to talk about donations.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That's like so embarrassing. Sounds on point. Remember when I covered the British murder a couple of weeks back and I was like, this lieutenant's first name is Sept. What a cool name. It was superintendent. Damn it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah, it was definitely one of those look for the helpers moments.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That was so beautiful. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So that's what people were doing, you know, during the days after and during this catastrophe. But of course, people are still doing stuff and we want to add to that. So we're going to donate $10,000 to the Los Angeles Regional Food Bank. The food bank works with hundreds of partner agencies across Los Angeles County to provide food assistance to those who have been affected by the wildfires.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So we just wanted to add a little to that. I have like three giant bags of clothes that I'm waiting to donate until people want vintage dresses. Yeah. Because I don't think that's the first thing you want when you're.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So the coming months, look out for those vintage dresses everywhere.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
We do. And we have some exciting news. The first episode of our brand new film podcast, Dear Movies, I Love You, is out now. And you can finally listen for yourselves and understand why we are so in love with this podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It would mean a lot to us if you guys could follow that, could subscribe to their episodes, could get a little heart going on that. Yeah. Five stars. Whatever it is, it really helps and we appreciate it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's just like family fun for everybody. Dear movies, I love you. And speaking of amazing guests, this week on Do You Need a Ride, actor and comedian Sam Pancake. Oh. I love Sam. Hops in the passenger seat. One of the greats of our time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
And speaking of books, Kate's brand new book, The Sinners All Bow, two authors, one murder, and the real Hester Prynne is out now. Kate Winkler Dawson, The most prolific person I've ever met in my life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
We are. She's so talented.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
The idea was shame. So you wouldn't share it. So no one knew how big the problem was. No one knew that they had other people they could connect to who are also going through it. You kept quiet. And when these things come out in public, it's not our fucking shame. Yeah. You know? Yes. Okay. So what was the movie called? I'm going to tell you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's almost, it's soap opera-y, it's not very realistic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Appreciate it very much. 100% need to know, but not harshly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
They didn't shy away from getting in your face.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Super intense. Did you think his name was spelled S? How was it? S-U-P-T.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah. The only way to get out of your house, too, is to marry someone, you know? Was back then.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Shouldn't there be a period? Just didn't get it. Just went right over that head of mine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Just for our own clarity. Superintendent mom. Well, I wanted to get that out of the way now that we're back from a little.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's so calculated.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Nobody.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Most of nobody. Nobody. But we've been gone. This is our first episode, like officially back in the studio with a normal episode since the fucking bananas fires that happened in Los Angeles.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
You can just go do that. It's like we're keeping it from you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
In a way that's just like, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
This reminds me, this TV show Made with Margaret Qualley does a really good job of showcasing like the just why didn't you just leave or why did you go back? It's just really the nuance and subtleties in it. It does a really great job of that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It was really crazy to find that question you get asked on podcasts all the time. What would you and I've even asked on podcasts to other people, what would you grab in a fire? Right. And I because I we weren't in the evacuation zone. We were like. Like right below it. And so, and you could smell the smoke. It was really strong.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Wow. I mean, how fucking desperate do you have to be that that is your best option? Yeah. That's all you can do. Yeah. That's all you could do. Not just leave. There's no just leaving.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Jesus.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
No one's going to fucking help you. No one's going to do anything to stop it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
The electricity had gone out and I was just, that's just one of my nightmares. My whole life is like, I pictured how I would do it, especially with three cats. Yeah. In an emergency. In the dark. In the dark. Right. And so we did it and... I mean, thankfully, our house, it didn't it did never reach our house, but it was, you know, very close. Yeah. And so sad.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Because financial abuse is such a great way to control someone. It's just you control everything. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Those lawyers were good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's almost like that verdict was for all the women that came before her who didn't escape or who were the ones who were killed. Yes. It's like that verdict is the message of no more. Right. You know? Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
How beautiful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Like there's everyone you know. If you don't think you know anyone that has gone through this, then they're keeping it a secret. They're not telling you. That's all it is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah. I don't feel embarrassed at all. It's like I kind of actually am like proud that I handled myself in a really, you know, I yelled at Vince a little bit to hurry up. But otherwise, it all went well, you know, and it is like. Really honest today. Not yelled, but you know what I mean. Sure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
No, as soon as you, I was like, as soon as she says the name of the made for TV movie, I'll know what she's talking about. I never heard of it. God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Incredible. Great job. Thank you for telling that important story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Okay. Change gears? Yeah. So I think people change.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Okay. Well, we're going to do it. And I'm going to tell you what I think might be the oldest story we've done. Maybe. No, you did a really old one once.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
No. This is older. Are you about to tell me a Bible story? I'm going to tell you a biblical fucking story. No, I'm not. But we are going to go back to the early days.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
of the roman empire is that the earliest like gladiator it's pretty early yeah it's pretty early and it does sound like something straight out of game of thrones and actually was probably a likely source of inspiration for george rr martin this is the story of a woman that what you're gonna guess i don't know i'm just yeah i'm ready for it this is the story of a woman some people describe as history's first documented serial killer
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
This is the story of Locusta, the poisoner of Rome. Yes. Yes. You ready for her? Yes, please. Okay, let's do it. So there are very limited primary sources about Locusta. She's only briefly mentioned in Surviving Histories of Rome. Of course, it's just like everyone's moved on from her. Yes. They're over it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Right. Well, but the main sources for the story were an episode of an adorable podcast called History for Weirdos, which is super lovely. It's this married couple. They're very smart. And an article from All That's Interesting by Genevieve Carlton. So we don't know much about LaCosta's early life. We know she was born in Gaul, G-A-U-L.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
This is the region of the Roman Empire that overlaps with modern day France and Belgium. Like, you knew that, though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Don't even try.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
She's born sometime around 14 AD. And of course, you know this as well, either at the end of the reign of Augustus or the beginning of the reign of- Tiberius.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It was so scary. And yeah, there's, you know, Altadena was such a darling town. I know so many people there. There's someone in our back house staying there because they lost their entire house. So there is dislike.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So congratulations.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I mean, it feels good. Yeah, you should be happy for yourself. Okay. So these two men were Rome's first and second emperors. You didn't do the whole first syllable. No. I wouldn't have gotten Tiberius if I had heard Tiberius. Isn't it I, Claudius? Brent just found that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
There we go. And before them, Rome had been a republic. We're not going to get into the weeds about Rome. Can we not? Yes, we cannot for sure. I'd really rather not.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
But stop it, because we're not getting into the weeds. I'm totally done. Essentially, though, the empire emerged after a series of civil wars to stabilize the republic. Julius Caesar, your BFF, a senator, tried to seize power and install himself as a dictator, which is why he was famously assassinated.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
But Augustus, the first emperor, was his nephew, and he eventually overpowered the senators who had conspired against Caesar. So this is where we are now. Okay. So right around this time, this is where Locusta ends up in the city of Rome. She's a young woman. And I looked at the like one or two drawings of her that I don't know what time period they're from. They could be modern.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
guilt like that for sure but my cousins are from Pacific Palisades and earlier that day they were part of that crew who had to leave their car behind and just run down this like down and I was just like I don't want to be that I don't want to be I don't want to evacuate when I'm told to evacuate with everyone else. That's one of my other worst nightmares is like sitting in evacuation traffic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
They could be old. But I cast her as Jessica Chastain. Just for fun. Interesting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That's just my was my immediate thought. Got it. And it's likely that she had been enslaved or brought there as a captive of Julius Caesar's campaign in Gaul. So had the campaign where she's from and she ends up there. So it's probably brought over for slavery purposes. Yeah. Somehow during her upbringing, she learned a huge amount about herbs, plants and poison making.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
But there's no record of how it's likely that this knowledge would have been passed down within her family as it was. And this period Locusta is born into, the end of the Republic and the beginning of the Empire, is the beginning of what's actually a pretty great fucking time to be a Roman citizen. It sounds pretty sweet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's where they get the saying bread and circuses, which I've never heard before, but Ali thankfully put in here. Yeah. And you're nodding like you've heard of it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That's what it says here. The emperors keep the people happy by providing free food and entertainment, including the gladiators. And then they
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
fuck off and do their own thing and then we all fight about like the kim kardashian of gladiators right and we're all over here they got more food and circuses than i did and how dare that person doesn't deserve as many circuses because they're lower than me and i'm yeah and then we fight with each other and ignore the fucking oligarchs and the billionaires don't pay taxes and the billionaires don't pay taxes and corporations run the fucking country yeah
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
What? Where are we?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Okay, I guess. So this is where kind of the beginning of the opulent, technologically advanced city of Rome, the expanding empire around it. It's good to be fucking wealthy in Rome at this time. But of course, at this point in time, it's not good to be a person living in one of the areas Rome is conquering.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
But within the city of Rome, even an average Roman citizen, life's pretty stable and conditions are comfortable, you know, comparatively.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
In the 70s. Yes. This period of time is called the Pax Romana and it will last about 200 years. And then the empire will decline and fall. And after that, it's the Dark Ages. Super fun. And then it's lights out for Europe until the Renaissance. Yeah. So that's where we're at right now. It's like time of wine and roses.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
This is around when the movie Gladiator takes place. Gladiator's a little later, but around this time. But while normal people are enjoying themselves, the ruling class is still constantly full of infighting, jockeying for power, and assassinating one another. kind of their thing. This presents an opportunity for a girl from Gaul with a deep knowledge of plants and poisons.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
You got to use what you know. Also, why don't we know it anymore?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
All the sorcery plant fucking recipes. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So in her early career in Rome, Locusta works with two other women to make poisons for wealthy clients. The three of them are often referred to as sorceresses. Locusta becomes independently wealthy for doing this. Fucking get it, girl. She would have used hashtag boss bitch if she had Instagram. Do it. You know? Locusta makes a name for herself.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Graffiti. Somehow. But I can't read. She makes a name for herself. She's hired by members of Rome's elite to help them carry out assassinations in their various power struggles. And by 54 AD, when she's about 40 years old, she's been arrested and convicted on multiple occasions. However, her powerful clients get her off every time. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
We don't know about all the poisons Locusta uses, unfortunately. Those are secrets now. But records show that she used belladonna or deadly nightshade, as well as arsenic and a litany of other poisons. I think you'd have to imagine Sally from The Night Before Christmas. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just a skinny, pale girl that's like, I like to combine things. Little of this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Are your cousins okay? Some lost houses, some didn't. It's just so... Everyone knows someone who lost houses. It's fucking... But that trauma, that...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
And it sounds like she also knows how to create new poisons from different combinations. So she's fucking smart.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
They don't make it themselves. I just realized that. Yeah. Poisoners. Yeah. So by this point, we're on Rome's fourth emperor, Claudius. Augustus, the first emperor, had essentially consolidated power and set Rome on this path to growth and conquest. And then there were two other emperors until Claudius.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Claudius marries his niece, a woman named Agrippina, who had already been married, like, oh, my God, drama, and whose first husband had died, possibly by poisoning. Agrippina has a son from that previous marriage, his name Agrippina. Do you want to try to guess? Yeah. You don't have to. No pressure. Does it start with an L?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
You're going to know the name. And so you're going to think, I wish I had known. Oh. Nero. Oh, yeah. Okay. So Nero obviously doesn't really have a particularly strong claim to the Roman throne because he's the son of the second wife. You know what I mean? Yeah. But Agrippina is like, but let's change that. I'm the new wife, or I'm the wife. Let me figure this out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Agrippina convinces Claudius to change his will, making her son Nero the heir to the throne. This is in spite of Claudius having a biological son. And after Claudius changes his will, Agrippina wants to make sure that he doesn't have time in life to change it back. You know what I'm saying? So she turns to Locusta, who by this time is well known among Roman elites.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Agrippina and Locusta wait for a day when Claudius's most loyal servant has the day off. They had days off back then. That's nice. They poison a dish of mushrooms, which is Claudius's favorite food. And it's unclear if the mushrooms themselves are poisonous or if she applies poison to the mushrooms. We don't know how she sauteed and sautéed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Other people say he was actually poisoned by belladonna brewed into a tea. Regardless, the story goes that Claudius gets sick. His doctor comes to see him. And I don't know why every single doctor who went to see any patient ever back then wasn't first like, you're being poisoned.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Like kind of should be number one. Number two is like gout or whatever. You know, I don't know. What did they get? The doctor gives Claudius a feather to stick down his throat to induce vomiting. That's doctors then. I mean, that's it also. But that's how they did it in the vomitorium. Right, right, right. But the feather has been coated in more poison.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
And we don't know if Agrippina did this or if the doctor was involved. However... They're locking it down.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Claudius dies. Okay. After Claudius dies, Agrippina, who hired Locusta, has Locusta jailed for the poisoning, which seems like a bad idea because you just talk, right? And you're like, oh, I didn't do this on my own. Right. I don't get it. It's a weird move, clearly like a paranoia move.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Because also it's all going to be down to her, obviously. Totally. Yeah. Like get rid of the evidence, but like the evidence can talk. But this doesn't matter because her son Nero quickly frees her because he also needs her help. Yeah. So Claudius's biological son is a man named... Give me the first letter. B. R. Britannicus.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
No, I'm not gonna. He's named this because the Romans had recently expanded the empire to Britain around his time of birth. I don't know, Britannicus. My name's Georgia. What am I gonna say about that?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I can't. You can't. I truly can't. Britannicus still has a powerful claim to the Roman throne. Sadly, he's only 13 years old when his pops dies. In 55 AD, Nero pardons Locusta and quickly hires her to kill 13-year-old Britannicus, which is like, just send him to a fucking island.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah. I bet you have this experience too. Fucking huge shout out to Vince's retired fire chief brother, Russ. He was so on it texting us from Michigan with all the insider info. It was so incredible. Like, and you have fire, your dad was a firefighter, obviously. That was incredible.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's so much killing. He wants her to make his death appear to be of natural causes at 13. Locusta attempts to poison him with arsenic, but it doesn't work. And Nero has her flogged for this. I don't think that's the best idea. Has locustiflog? Yeah. Oh, okay. But they try again. Nero throws a dinner party. Wine is served. The Romans would serve their wine diluted with water, blah, blah, blah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Basically, before Britannicus takes a sip of his wine, his taster, who's specifically there to test for poison, takes a sip, says it's fine. And then Britannicus is like, oh, top me off with that kind of water. It turns out that water was the poison. Okay. So the tester didn't drink it again. Britannicus drinks it. It's probably belladonna. And the thing is, Britannicus has epilepsy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
The other people at the dinner party know this. So when he basically stops being able to speak, Nero's like, oh, he's just having a seizure, which is like, again, let's start with poisoning.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Britannicus is brought to another room to recover, but it's where he ultimately suffocates and dies at 13. According to lore, the poison Locusta used was known by the Romans to turn a victim's skin red. And Britannicus is buried very quickly after his murder. This is so Game of Thrones.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Right. With his face painted with a white chalk to hide his red skin. Yeah. People just aren't really paying attention, I feel like, back then.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Well, right. There's poisoners everywhere. There's poisoners. That's the fucking king or whatever. And you're just like, that's not for me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
But then someone's coming for you too. Yeah. You know? That's right. You can't poison everyone who will ever poison you. I know. Or something. But just because he has that chalk on his face, just before his burial, it starts to rain, showing the red skin under the white chalk. So it's immediately known throughout Rome that Britannicus has been poisoned. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
There's also probably like a no snitching on, you know, Nero policy going on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Absolutely. Yeah. Like, just keep your mouth shut. Nero rewards Locusta for securing the throne for him. He pays her, he gives her land, and he ultimately tasks her with opening up a school to teach other people to be poisoners. It's like a happy ending. Yeah, that is really positive. Yeah. He also grants her immunity for all future crimes. Does that sound familiar?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Not in the least. Anyway, fast forward. Immunity. Some accounts say that LaCosta is given enslaved people and prisoners to test her poisons on. That's just a rumor. And this is where the idea comes from that she is the first known serial killer. Which is so funny, like you don't think about, like you think of serial killer as a recent thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
And some people say at this point, she just starts poisoning people because she enjoys it. Sounds like she's good at it, you know? Not just as a hired assassin. We don't know much about what else happens to Locusta for about 15 years until she's in her mid-50s. During this time, Nero has made a lot of enemies.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
In fact, during this time period, Nero actually murders his own mother, who fucking put him in the throne. Yeah. Like, thanks a lot. Just ungrateful. Yeah. Little bastard. Totally. In 68 AD, Nero is unseated by a man named Galba and is forced to flee Rome.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Let's all get the fuck out of here. We've got to get out of Rome. And Nero dies by suicide shortly after this. The new emperor, your best friend Galba, overturns Locusta's immunity because that can be done as well. Yes, we've heard. And this comes as part of a purge of all of Nero's closest advisors. So for 15 fucking years, Locusta was living the good life. Yeah. And, you know, nothing lasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
No, it doesn't. Time is a construct. The pendulum swings and swings. Flat circle. Galba accuses Locusta of killing more than 400 people and sentences her to death. So she is executed, although it's not known exactly how. There are two legends. The story always begins with her being marched through the streets of Rome in chains. Shame. All of Game of Thrones.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yep. Some say she is then strangled or burnt or a combination of the two. Public executions are common in Rome and often take place during gladiator games. Like there's that entertainment and circus that you wanted. In addition to burning, other methods of execution include crucifixion, which seems like it's reserved for special circumstances, as well as exposure to wild beasts. That's a hell no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I mean, they're all hell no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Well, anyway, that's the end of Locusta's story as we know it, which there isn't a ton. Let's get Jessica Chastain on the line and fucking get an exactly right pictures. Fucking movie out here.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I'm telling you, history for weirdos. They clearly went to school. Unlike us. Should I go there first? Yeah. They know what they're talking about. They're good explainers. They're good explainers. And they like have... off the top of their mind in a way that I don't understand. Because they studied. Because they studied and probably didn't drink themselves into oblivion in their 30s.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Time away from drinking. All of that. The disinterest. Yeah. And I'm fine with that. We're not all supposed to be the same.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I really am. And that is everything we know about the woman who was possibly the first serial killer, Locusta, Poisoner of Rome.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
There's a whole time period. Thousands and thousands of years. Thousands of years ago. Okay. Well, good. I'm glad you like that. Yeah, that was great. Thanks. Wonderful. All right. Well, we did it. We got some beautiful. This has been a like huge, well-rounded episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Except the ADHD because we were born with it, baby.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So appreciative.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Ceramicists artists for our ninth anniversary. Including Emily, a.k.a. Pottery Mama. Missy, a.k.a. Young Yenta. Sam Riegel with that beautiful mug. And Lindsay Cook with the altered moments. figurine. So good. I've just been like talking to you this whole time and listening to you with these beautiful things behind your head and I'm so distracted and I keep just going, oh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Definitely. We're interior designers.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That's my specialty.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Just like the early days when Georgia would go to her post office box. And they'd be like, what's murder? They'd get mad about the word murder. I'm being like, listen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murderer. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
In the midst of the inauguration. It just felt like the end of the fucking world. And it still does.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah, something like that. Something around there. And we were going to do a whole live stream and we had asked you guys for the ninth anniversary gift, which is ceramics. And a couple of you delivered ceramics. Yeah. Not many. Just kidding. We got so much fucking ceramics. Boxes. Boxes upon boxes. Photos, tags on... Some people were like, I want to send it to you, but it cost me $500 to send it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Right. Like, just so much awesome stuff.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
And what it's going to be. Yes. Because we're still going to do it. We're just kind of recalibrating right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
So important. Everyone, one of the most important moments in a person's life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
And I can't, we haven't seen a single piece. I haven't. You might have accidentally because it's near your office.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
There's a reason that was covered. So we haven't seen any of this. The incredible team at Exactly Right have been going through the boxes. And you can hear them diabolically laughing or just cracking up every time they see one. So there's one on our table right now. It's covered up. If you want to go to YouTube, you can see it. Or I'm sure we'll put it on our socials.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
That's the future. But until then, you have to listen to us explain things. In detail. In detail. And probably get some things incorrect.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Okay. Did you ever think that you would be in a place in your life where you could just ask for an electronic Lazy Susan and have it fucking delivered? I dreamed. That is like boss bitch. It's high fucking level. Lean in to the Lazy Susan. Okay, I haven't seen it yet, so I'm going to do it right now. Okay. Oh, Alondra's going to press play on the Lazy Susan to move.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Here we go. One, two, three. Oh, my God. This is... Okay. It's a coffee French press with two beautiful ceramic cups. But it is not... I thought it was supposed to be funny. I thought these were all going to be funny. This is fucking gorgeous. It's gorgeous.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Wow. Wow. Instagram handle at pottery underscore mama.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Does that disqualify?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
This is so beautiful. I have been wanting a French press.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
This is gorgeous. And I love that Emily points out that they're made with food safe clay and glazes because that's like, you know, my fucking thing now, like all my vintage kitchenware turns out. It's filled with lead. And I can't use any of it. This is... This is beautiful. Okay, let's go on to our next piece of ceramics.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Oh, it's going towards you. It's slowly. Don't push the Susan. You'll see it. Don't push Susan. It is a gorgeous like plate platter with a beautiful painting of a hot dog on it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
I don't know, but it's like they're furnishing exactly right studios with art. We kind of got away with something here where it's like, we don't have to go to HomeGoods. That's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Yeah, I was hoping there'd be hot dog art. It is the right size for like double hot dogs.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Salt and vinegar.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
hello and welcome to my favorite murder that's georgia hartstark that's karen kilgariff and this is my favorite murder did we say that part already i think that's part of it but it's always good to remind people i heard double introing your podcast yeah shoot you up to the top that's the new like what all the you know influencers are doing uh-huh it's just like double cleansing with korean skin care
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It's oval. Wow. Beautiful. Okay. Let's do the next one. Thank you kindly. Thank you, Yanyanta. This next one is from artist Sam Bregel. Instagram handle at Sam Bregel. It's B-R-I-E-G-E-L. And they say about this, we haven't seen it yet. I refer to this style of mug as my quilted twist mug. I chose crows for Georgia and included my favorite MFM quote on these mugs.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It is made from translucent porcelain and is meant to be used and enjoyed. Thank you for all that you do. Love, Sam. Here we go. Big reveal. Sam. I'm sorry. What? What? That's fucking art. Why am I so shocked? Because I think what I would have done is made a hot dog ceramic thing that you can't tell what it was. My mind would have looked so bad. Look at that crow. That is gorgeous.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
It says, this is terrible. Keep going. It's a red, yellow, and black mug with quilted texture. Those are almost like Danish modern things. Yes, designs. Designs. I have never seen something so beautiful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
465 - You’re Kidding Yourself, Supt
Oh my God, that's incredible. That's Sam Riegel. Thank you so much.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
they just ended a critically acclaimed four-year run on the podcast, I Saw What You Did.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It's called Dear Movies, I Love You. Please welcome Millie DeCherico and Casey O'Brien.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You know, I think that's so true. That's why Mulholland Drive is one of my favorite movies of all time is because the first time I watched it, I was like, there's no plot. I don't get it. Totally. Like there's no, you know, it's just a movie. There's no plot. And then I watched it again and I was like, holy fuck.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Like the way it blew my mind that when I could finally follow the plot, blew it so hard that nothing has ever lived up to that again.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I have so much to say. It's like everything clicks together all of a sudden. I love it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It's it spums me out. not as a huge movie person, but just like having a weirdo in the world is like really comforting, you know, like Paul Rubens kind of a thing where it's like, it's comforting to know there are people out there doing whatever the fuck they want to do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Casey, are you so excited to finally get some fucking attention in this podcasting world? No longer a producer.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You respect that the other person's wrong, essentially. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Yes. Yes. A hundred percent.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Can I ask you guys a question? You guys are all moviegoers. I don't go to the theater. And I've always wondered this. Are you supposed to finish your snacks before the movie starts? That always blew my mind. It's like, you have to save it and you're supposed to eat it before, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You mean like in the 15 minutes of trailers and stuff? Yeah. And then everyone stops eating when the movie starts. So I feel self-conscious chewing loudly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It seems like everyone else has art finishes there. I don't know if it was like a rule that I just didn't fucking know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I saw him at the Beverly Center. You got to go to the mall, too. Oh, gosh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You guys, do you have a favorite movie theater moment now that we're talking about them? Besides finishing all the amazing food?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You can't do that. That's an 80s trick.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
This is what I think every movie's like. That's why I don't. It's always firecrackers. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
No, you can't do that. I'm sorry. I'm angry.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
That hurt.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It's not going to be the same for sure. It'd be amazing if it was, though. Same time? One, two, three. Twins. A Fish Called Wanda.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Why is that? Twins. For some reason, that's the one with Schwarzenegger.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Yes, I was the right age and every other weekend at my dad's house, my single dad, and so we would have to rent a VCR from They're from the video store. We're going to do that. And so we just fucking love that movie and watch the shit out of it. I'm sure it's so inappropriate for children.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Both these movies are posing for the cover. Yeah. Like, they're not, like, take a clip from the movie. Right. They're, like, the cast. Yes. They're posing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
But like very poorly to these weird like it looks like a Hallmark movie poster.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
But it's like a big budget movie. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
And your sibling can't. You guys have to agree on it. Yeah. That's the worst part.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Well, you know, my sister and I snuck into the X rated. We pushed the curtain aside and ran into the X rated video store section. Yes. When no one was looking. How was it? I, I, we were, I read about this in our book. I was like, you have, I was so overwhelmed. I'm like, you have to look at one and you have to pay attention.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You have to like focus on it or you're not going to see anything, you know? Cause I was so overwhelmed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It's like circle, circle, circle. And I was like, just look at something. And so I looked at it. It was called naked with shoes on. And it blew my mind. Interesting. She had, like, LA-geared tennis shoes and, like, scrunched socks and was, like, clearly naked everywhere else. Naked with shoes on. I was like, oh, my God, that's a thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Like, I didn't realize adults were, like, into it naked with shoes on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I love it so much. And I tried to look it up and I can't find it. Like it might not exist in real life. It might just exist in my mind. I want to ask one last question. Do you guys have a dream guest? David Lynch, RIP. That would have been amazing. But do either of you have a dream guest?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I mean, it was an easy hell yes when we heard the pitch. It was just like, fucking absolutely. I can't wait to see what you guys do. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I love them. That's exciting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It's so great. Dear Movies, I Love You launches on January 28th and new episodes will air every Tuesday.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Bye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
And what I love about that too is, I mean, it kind of reminds me of our podcast and even though true crime has nothing to do with what you guys are doing, but it's finding your people too, who can talk about this one movie for hours, even if they don't like it with you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
And, you know, yeah, like the two of you found each other and then your audience and your listeners are going to be like, absolutely, or no, you're wrong, but you're still connecting in a way that's hard to do these days. It feels like everyone's just kind of having these... you know, superficial connections.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
But if you have this, like, interest that you're so passionate about, you can really connect with people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It was, it was amazing writing it down right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
It's like showing grief the way it really is, which is so hard for anyone to like do if you don't understand.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I'm saying how did I miss that as if I haven't missed every single fucking movie that has come out in the past.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
You know what I am? I'm a, I find a movie I like and I watch it 40 times and there's no other, and I don't watch any other movies. It's not like, I love this director. I'm gonna watch all their movies. I don't do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
that's not so deep and like you have to understand the meaning of but it'll get you to those other movies that then you then you can appreciate because you you know what i mean yeah like what do they call them like um gateway gateway gateway drugs yeah yeah um well i guess i have a question how do you feel about subtitles because for some people that's a big hurdle I don't mind it. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
I think the gateway part, though, for the masses, there shouldn't be, though. Maybe one out of three, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
464 - Dear Movies, I Love You
Whatever's needed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Oh, no. So here we fucking go. Yeah, here we go. We're talking about the Boston PD and specifically the Canton PD and the Stoughton PD. PD. And so, I mean, I can't even begin to tell you all the shit that's going on with them right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Karen Reed. So what we're talking about is the fact that recently the citizens of Canton voted in favor of an independent third party audit of their police department, which Because they didn't have faith in them because shit is going on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And one of those things that's going on is the trial of this woman named Karen Reed for the alleged murder or accidental car accident death of her boyfriend who was also in the PD.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
But as you know, it just sounds it's shits blowing up. It's wild. And there's a really great two part article in Vanity Fair called Karen Reed tells her story part one and two. That'll tell you everything about it. That's really good. And this happened a couple of years before Karen Reed, the Karen Reed case has come to light.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
A lot of people think that because of the investigation into what's going on with Karen Reed, this case has resurfaced to the FBI agents who are investigating Karen Reed's story, and there's some red flags here.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Exactly. God. Yeah. So, in fact, lots of people knew this information that this police detective was her boyfriend. Sandra had told friends and coworkers that she was pregnant and that he was the father. She had described the situation as tense. The officer's name is Matthew Farwell, and he's 35 years old. and Sandra is 23.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
At this point, we should make it clear Matthew was charged with Sandra's murder this past August, more than three years after all this happens, but he has not been convicted, so just to let you know. Sandra's aunt and cousin both immediately tell investigators that they believe Matthew should be questioned, because this is suspicious.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Yeah, something like that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
It takes two days after Sandra's body is discovered for investigators to look at the security footage from the lobby of her apartment, two days. So the footage initially shows Sandra coming home to her apartment on Monday and just kind of, you know, doing some errands in and out of the apartment building. And in this footage, Sandra's wearing the clothing she is later found in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And so this confirms the medical examiner's timeline and makes it even more specific. Sandra died on Monday, February 1st. And this is further corroborated by the health data on her iPhone because it records her last steps at 9.40 p.m. that night.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Which I find so interesting that they can just track that now. Kind of creepy. Yeah, totally. The security footage then also shows a man authorities have confirmed to be Matthew Farwell, the police officer, in a hooded jacket and like a COVID mask, arriving at the lobby at 9.08 p.m.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
He gets in the elevator and then is seen leaving the building at 9.43 p.m., three minutes after Sandra's phone records her last steps. Hmm. Let's back up a little to the troubling part of the story where Sandra Birchmore first meets Matthew Farwell. This would have been when Sandra joined the Police Explorers program in 2010. Oh, no. When she was just 13 years old. And Matthew was 24 years old.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
So about Matthew, after dropping out of high school, he joined the military and then got a job with the Wellesley Police Department. And over the first two years of Sandra being in the Explorers program, Matthew took a special interest in her and would spend time helping her with her homework, both at the program and outside of it at the public library.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
During this time period, Matthew moved from the Wellesley Police Department to the Stoughton Police Department, but he had worked with the Stoughton Explorers Program the whole time. So he's in this Explorers Program. From an outside perspective, at the time, Matthew's interest in Sandra would look like the program was working as intended, setting vulnerable kids up with police mentors.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Federal prosecutors now say that Matthew spent the first two years of the program grooming Sandra. Starting in April of 2013, when Sandra was 15 and Matthew was 27, federal prosecutors now allege that Matthew began sexually abusing Sandra. This would have been one month before Matthew got married to his now wife and was going on at the time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
I'm glad you told me beforehand. I got to practice.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
This period is often described as the relationship, quote, becoming sexual or, quote, crossing a line, but because of the age difference, and if it happened the way federal prosecutors say it did, It's sexual abuse is what we're explaining. Yeah. Matthew will later admit that he and Sandra had a relationship, but he claims it started after Sandra became an adult.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And the bulk of the evidence for the federal charges, which say the relationship began when Sandra was underage, is based on extensive text messages between Matthew and Sandra. Right. It's a little hard to refute. Yeah. It appears the earliest messages available are from 2019, but in them, Matthew seems to back up the prosecutor's timeline.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
And in one text, he says, and it's like creepy and flirtatious, that he would have started the physical relationship when she was even younger than 15. This relationship continued consistently for the next seven years. But it gets even darker than just Matthew using his position of power to groom and abuse Sandra, allegedly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Because the evidence points to this being a bigger problem within the Explorers program. Sometime around 2017, once Sandra was about 18, federal prosecutors say that two other men who worked for the Stoughton Police Department also had physical relationships with her. With Sandra? Mm-hmm. One was Matthew Farwell's twin brother, who was also a police officer.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
All three men were aware of this dynamic between themselves and Sandra. So the men would also sometimes see Sandra while they were supposed to be on duty. Sandra had joined the Explorers program as a vulnerable girl without stable adult relationships.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
According to both federal prosecutors and the Stoughton Police Department's own internal investigation, the men she met in this program used this in order to exploit her. Over the course of 2020, when Sandra is 22 and 23, Matthew's texts to her also become increasingly creepy and violent in tone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
No, no, no. So we're going to do just one story each. No, that's how we do it with every episode. One story per episode. Today's my day. So as you guys know, we're doing our holiday tradition where we make donations throughout the month of December.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
In their exchanges, they would talk about how he would perform certain sex acts as, quote, punishment for what he deemed bad behavior on Sandra's part. Throughout 2020, Sandra becomes fixated on the idea of having a baby with Matthew. They would fight more and more often, and she essentially presents this as an ultimatum.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
If they have a baby, she won't reveal the relationship to his wife and to higher-ups at the police department. Sandra at this point has confided in multiple friends about what's going on with her relationship with Matthew. One of them urges her not to have a baby with Matthew and told her, quote, trying so hard to get pregnant, she was going to get herself killed, end quote.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
At the end of 2020, Matthew eventually agrees to have the baby. And according to text messages, their text messages that have been released in the federal indictment, in the process of the agreement, he also negotiates with her about getting to enact violent fantasies. And those texts are very disturbing. I'm not going to repeat them. In December of 2020, Sandra finds out that she's pregnant.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
459 - We’re Both Skiing
Even though Matthew had seemingly agreed to have the baby, he doesn't react well to the news. He texts Sandra, quote, I have literally nothing to say right now. How far are you? End quote. And Sandra writes back, quote, regardless of how far, we're keeping it. End quote.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She also writes that she will insist that he sign the birth certificate, and that's partly because she didn't have her birth father's signature on her birth certificate, and, you know, that upset her.
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It makes sense that this is how she thinks she should start a family because there's nothing else that's ever...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash MFM to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. Sandra's text messages show that in January of 2021, Sandra writes to a friend saying that Matthew had basically pushed her down to the ground when she showed him the ultrasound photo, saying, quote, that's not my child, end quote.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And if you'd like to join us in donating to this very important cause, go to their website at thetrevorproject.org.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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At the end of January, Matthew texts Sandra to ask if he can come over. When he comes, he asks for a key to her apartment in case he needs to be there during the pregnancy. And he's generally acting much nicer to her than he has in the previous months. But also on that visit, she tells her friends that Matthew inspects her bedroom closet and her bathroom.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And she texts her friend about it because it's so strange. But also she says he seems like he's coming around because, you know, for the key and everything. Right. Then on February 1st, 2021 is the day of the snowstorm. When Sandra gets home early from work, she does those mundane things I talked about. Matthew texts asking to swing by at 9.08.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He enters the building at 9.14, which means he was close by, and leaves at 9.43, locking Sandra's door behind him with the key he had asked her to make. And then this is so disturbing. So based on the clothes he's wearing in the footage from the lobby, he goes seemingly directly or in the same clothes to the hospital where his wife is giving birth to their third child.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Again, Sandra's family and friends are suspicious of the suicide ruling by the medical examiner. And when they bring up Matthew Farwell's name to the investigators, and when he's seen on Sandra's building security footage, a state police detective, but who's also a former Stoughton officer, interviews him. Which is like, maybe not, dude. Maybe some conflict of interest there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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The interview is super brief. It takes place in a parking lot, so it's totally informal. It's obviously, like, just almost seems like, you know, let's get this over with and blow this off. Firewall describes a recent casual relationship with Sandra and admits he did visit her the night she died and that they had a brief argument. And he says that he had ended their relationship that night.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And he denies being the father of Sandra's child, says, like, we haven't had sex in months. A week later on February 9th, Matthew turns his phone over to state troopers. They say they look through it and they say they don't find anything noteworthy in it. So either he deleted the text and they didn't look any further into it or they just didn't look into it. Right. We don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But while all this is going on, multiple people are telling higher-ups at the Stoughton Police Department about Sandra's relationship with Matthew and the involvement of Matthew's twin brother and the deputy chief, the one who ran the Explorers program. So people are talking because this is fucking suspicious as shit, you know?
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Do you want to do some highlights from our podcast network, Exactly Right Media?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's like clear to anyone, especially those involved.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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or basic understanding of like detective work.
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Yeah. At this point, Stoughton has its first ever female police chief, a woman named Donna McNamara, and thankfully she launches an internal affairs investigation. So this internal affairs investigation finds significant evidence backing up all of the allegations.
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It also uncovers the thousands of text messages between Sandra and Matthew, which the state troopers, for whatever reason, were unable to recover. Oh, there they are. So the results of the internal affairs investigation are made public in September of 2022.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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At a press conference, Chief McNamara says Sandra was quote, failed by, manipulated by, and used by people of authority that she admired and trusted right up until her final days. The admiration led her to form relationships with men who were willing to take advantage of her, end quote. And she had also tried to join the military as well.
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The information uncovered by this internal affairs investigation shows that the deputy chief who ran the Explorers program also acted inappropriately with other girls in the program. And it finds the timeline of Matthew Farwell's relationship with Sandra meant that he committed statutory rape. He is placed on leave that same month, but nobody presses charges for years. That is 2022.
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So then in May of 2024, the Marshall Project, which does investigative reporting about the criminal justice system, runs a story about widespread grooming and abuse in the Police Explorers program across the country. And it also discusses Sandra's death.
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And so at the time the article is published, the reporters find about 200 complaints of misconduct in the nationwide program, and more have since come out. So this development and others bring much more attention to Sandra's death, and many people join a movement to pressure the Norfolk County District Attorney to build a criminal case against Matthew.
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So on Wednesday, August 24th, 2024, this past August, Matthew Farwell is indicted on federal charges of murder. At this point, he's no longer employed by the Stoughton police, but it's the first time anyone has brought any charges against him. And it's the first time much of the evidence from his texts with Sandra and Sandra's other online activity is released to the public.
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So people are pissed and it's like kind of goes all the way to the top situation. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And if you want the latest on your favorite podcasts on Exactly Right Media, follow us for updates on shows like This Podcast Will Kill You and Buried Bones. Our handle is at exactlyright on all social media platforms. Please give us a follow. It just kind of helps with metrics and shit, you know.
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For an innocent girl to be murdered, that's fine with you. That's an okay trade-off to protect this person. Right. And this institution. The federal investigation also uncovers overlooked forensic evidence. A pathologist from the FBI finds that Sandra had injuries that would be inconsistent with the way her body was found.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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There's a fracture in her hyoid bone, which any fucking true crime amateur knows is from strangulation, right? Yeah, can be.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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However... That's true. And it also does happen when you, when a person's been hanged from the ceiling, not from a sitting position. It's never happened when someone's hanged from a seating position. Wow. So it's actually has no place here at all. It points otherwise. If she had been hanging from, you know, the ceiling, then it would have been a different story. Got it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So additionally, the FBI investigation reexamines photos from Sandra's apartment taken by either Canton police or state troopers on the day her body was found. And in the photos, Sandra's flamingo necklace, the one that was found broken on the floor by her family, is clearly visible.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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The broken chain is hanging off of her neck, and the pendant is resting on her stomach, as in she was wearing it when this happened. Mm-hmm. It slid off. It got ripped off somehow because it's broken. Oh, got it. So how would that happen without a struggle? Right. So somehow this necklace migrated from her body to the floor while investigators were on the scene. They didn't collect it as evidence.
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They just left it behind, which is like, why wouldn't you? It's because it's, this is evidence that like points to A struggle, you know? Yeah. Or they're just, they're actually not even looking that closely. Right. They already have said this is suicide. Let's move on. Right. Totally. So far, no state or county charges have been filed against Matthew.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So the FBI has made their evidence available to those agencies. Sandra's loved ones and thousands of people who never knew her in life continue to pressure the DA to rectify the mistakes that local law enforcement made on this case and to bring their own charges.
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You know, you can't help but wonder what good Sandra Birchmore could have done if she had been able to follow her actual dreams of being in law enforcement. And maybe she would have mentored a new generation of at-risk kids who dreamed of being in law enforcement and, you know, had become the good cops we need so badly.
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On the day of the federal indictment, one of Sandra's friends told reporters, quote, Sandra, we can't bring you back, but we're fighting for you, end quote. And that is the story of the alleged murder of Sandra Birchmore. Wow.
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It's like a little Christmas Hanukkah present for us and for those podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. Like you're pulling a thread, a loose thread and the whole fucking thing falls apart. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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All right. So that's this week. You go next week.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So we're here with you. We're hoping you're having a good holiday season and it's not too insane. Make sure to go tandem skiing with your loved ones.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Do you get angry as you unwrap your presents, knowing that whatever's underneath will probably be disappointing and your loved ones have failed you yet again? If the answer's yes, you might need therapy, my friend. Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, makes getting the help you need easy, accessible, and affordable.
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There's a lot of money booth stories. A lot of fun stuff. It does feel like a little like camaraderie spot, the minisodes, where it's like we're a little, we're in like a club, you know? And everyone's just like telling their fun stories and fucked up stories too. So they're still there. It's all there. Fun stories to each other. It's all there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Once you meet your therapy goals, or if you want to cancel for any reason, Talkspace will provide you with a prorated refund for unused time. Guys, let's start 2025 with an appointment for therapy. Please. Can we do this? You know why? The people who cause you to need therapy will not go to therapy. Ever. I'm sorry. It's true.
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You need to learn how to deal with your emotions and their issues instead of begging them to go deal with their issues because they won't. I promise.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com slash MFM and enter promo code SPACE80. You'll get $80 off your first month and show support for our show. That's Talkspace.com slash MFM and enter promo code SPACE80. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And managing those payments is a breeze. In just a few clicks, you'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, Afterpay, and more.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Goodbye. All right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. This one's a hardcore one. Okay. And just a kind of heads up, this case is still currently playing out in the courts. So it's a really interesting one to follow. And if we were in England, we wouldn't be able to talk about this right now. We know that now in the UK. We know that now. Mm-mm.
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So this is a tragic and really honestly infuriating story that I had somehow never heard about, even though it was going on right over in Boston. As I said, it's still playing out in courts. And I checked on our Gmail and we only had a couple of mentions of it by murderinos, which I was really surprised about because you guys were always emailing us like, you should cover this case.
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And have you heard of this? So that was surprising. So I'm glad we're covering it. This is the story of the death of Sandra Birchmore. And just a note and a warning, this story involves grooming of a teenager for sexual assault and discusses suicide. So just a warning there.
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So the main sources I use for this story are an article in Boston Magazine called The Betrayal of Sandra Birchmore by Michelle McPhee. I highly recommend this article. It's really incredible. And I also use reporting from the Boston Globe and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.
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Okay, so it's February of 2021, pretty recently, and Sandra Birchmore is a 23-year-old woman living in Canton, Massachusetts. It's a Boston suburb, like it's on the outskirts of Boston, but it's like part of that Boston community. And Sandra has her own little apartment and new job teaching as an assistant at a local school. So it's been a hard fight for her to get to this place.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Growing up, Sandra had struggled both academically and socially in school. Her teachers say that she acted like a kid who couldn't get enough attention at home, which kind of made her act out, but not in a bad way, like kind of just wanting attention from the teachers, but that also made her a target for bullies. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She would try to hang out with the teachers a lot, clearly just craving attention and validation from adults. And because of this, she was often isolated from her peers, which is really sad. Sandra had grown up without a father. Her last name, Birchmore, comes from her mother's late husband who died before Sandra was born, so who wasn't her father. And she actually never knew her biological father.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Sandra's mother sounds like she did her best under very tough circumstances, but their relationship is often strained, and Sandra isn't always closely looked after. One of the most important people in her life is a grandfather figure. He's like an older family friend who actually acted like her grandfather.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And he's a decorated Army veteran, and he fosters in Sandra from a young age a deep admiration for law enforcement. and makes her want to go into that field. When she's 12 or 13 years old, I'm not totally clear on that, Sandra's mother enrolls her in the police explorer's program in their hometown of Stoughton, Massachusetts. Obviously spelled in a way I would have said wrong if the phonetic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That's all of Massachusetts City.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, so it's Stoughton. This is a program run by the Boy Scouts, now called Scouting America, with local police departments where children become junior police cadets and learn about police work. Sandra had begged to join this program, and her mother finally makes it happen when she's 13. And during this time in the Explorers, Sandra does better academically.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She finds some community and friendship in the program, and it seems like she really flourishes by finally getting to do this. So around the time Sandra graduates from high school, Sandra's mother writes a letter to the deputy police chief who runs the Explorers program, thanking him for its impact on Sandra's life. It's clearly made a difference.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Tragically, Sandra's mother dies shortly after this. Oh, God. I know. Losing the only parent in her life leaves Sandra unmoored, of course, and vulnerable. Sandra's two aunts move in with her to support her, but their relationship is kind of tense and strained, and it takes her a few years to find her footing. But by late 2020, Sandra is in a much better place. She's in community college.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She's made some very close friends with other young women there. Her aunts, cousins, friends, and coworkers consistently describe her as relentlessly positive, even in the toughest circumstances. She's also very talkative and upbeat. In fact, a lot of people would classify her as a bit of an overshare, which is like, Hi, welcome. Hi. Yes. To me. To me.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She will often tell her new coworkers everything that's going on in her life, even if it's the first time they've had a conversation, which I fucking do too. It's a way to, it's like a bid to get connection, you know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That kind of feeling. Rather than us spending a bunch of time together and realizing we don't like each other. Let me tell you what's wrong with me now. So you can walk away if you want to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's like over vulnerability in a way that it's, That isn't authentic somehow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. And I'm in charge of it. Totally, that makes absolute sense. Sandra is a redhead with a ton of freckles, sweet little face. She looks younger than she is her whole life in these pictures I've seen of her. So all this oversharing she's doing includes some exciting news. At the very end of 2020, Sandra finds out she's pregnant. Her friends say she's absolutely thrilled about it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She's only a few weeks along, but she's already shopping for baby items and scheduling doctor's appointments. And she's told quite a few people Because that's the way she is. And she's excited. And she has plans to announce the pregnancy on Valentine's Day, according to her text with friends. She's planning a gender reveal.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She even already asked a friend to watch her two cats when she has to go deliver the baby in the hospital, which is months away. So she is excited about this and planning for it. Yeah. So on February 4th, 2021, when Sandra fails to show up for work, her colleagues are concerned and they call the police for a wellness check. So that day is a Thursday.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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On the previous Monday, there had been a heavy snowstorm and school had been dismissed early. So it sounds like school is back in session on Tuesday and Wednesday, but for whatever reason, no one checks in until Thursday. When Canton police arrive at Sandra's apartment, there's no answer at the door. The door is locked, but they see her car in the parking lot covered in snow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That right there is Georgia Hardstark. Hello, that's me. And that right there is Karen Kilgariff. Goodbye. See ya later. She's not participating and she refuses to talk to you. She stormed out. She's really mad. What did you guys say to her? Jesus.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So they assume she's there. They get a key from the building management and they let themselves in. So when they get to Sandra's bedroom, and here just the warning is the description of a death rule to be suicide, they find her body and the immediate impression is that she has died by suicide. It appears she has hanged herself in a seated position from the door to her bedroom closet. Oh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, it's very distressing. Sandra's two cats are in the apartment and they're fine, but it appears she made no arrangements for their care. If she was planning to take her own life, you know, she had made plans for months in advance when the baby was born. Why wouldn't she have done it then? As well, right? Right. And also, why would she be making plans months in advance?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And this is just one of the many details the Canton police overlooks in their initial investigation into Sandra's death. The police call in help from state troopers and emergency medical personnel also report to the scene, although Sandra is already dead. A state trooper notes that there appears to be no sign of foul play, and the medical examiner also rules the death a suicide.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He says that Sandra had died several days earlier. So Sandra's aunt, a woman named Darlene Smith, is named as the emergency contact on Sandra's lease. And so when she gets the horrific news about her niece, she's immediately suspicious and knows shit's not adding up. Yeah. She calls her other niece, Sandra's cousin, a woman named Barbara Wright, who totally agrees as well.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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These two grieving women are tasked with cleaning out Sandra's apartment in the days immediately following her death. And this is what they find. Sandra had been in the middle of doing laundry when she supposedly took her own life. She had a load going in the dryer and a load in the washing machine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She had sent text messages back and forth with a few different friends about random everyday things. And on the evening she died, she had scheduled an OB appointment. So, you know, crazy. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. No, the math's not mathing, as they say.
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When going through the apartment, they find a homemade sign that says, congratulations, we're going to be parents, assumably to whoever the father was. It's written in elaborate script with magic markers, has glitter and animal stickers on it. Clearly she's excited about this. They find an ultrasound photo decorated with more glitter. They find Sandra's necklace, which she always wore.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's a gold chain with a flamingo pendant and it's found on the floor and the chain is broken and it's next to like a clump of hair. Mm-hmm. As if they had been pulled, you know. And the police either never saw it or simply never explained it away. Because it's left behind. Right. Both Barbara and Denise knew that Sandra had a boyfriend and that he was a police detective and that he was married.
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Coming to ABC and Hulu. Amanda Riley was a mother, wife, speaker at her church, and then she got diagnosed with cancer. A beloved young Christian woman fighting a battle undeserved.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He learns that she's been seeing other clients and he's basically like, that's that. So yet again, Peg is alone in the world. But unlike last time, She now has her own way of making money. So she keeps working and she keeps partying at pubs and looking for new Johns to keep herself afloat. And one day she meets a well-to-do man she identifies as a Mr. Leeson. It's Neom's great-great-grandfather.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
463 - We Are Never Brief
Lisa, Liam, Lisa. Not Liam. Liam. Liam. So Mr. Leeson becomes infatuated with Peg. And so he moves her into his lavish country estate in Kildare. Okay. You're right. Things are looking up. He makes her feel like royalty. And because he does all this for her, she sees fewer and fewer clients. Okay. And this kind of helps her maintain the image that she's just keeping herself only for Mr. Leeson.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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At one point, she even takes his last name, going by either Peg or Margaret Leeson. But she is not in love with him. She, like many of us, has fallen in love with Dublin's nightlife. That's what she's really about. She's grateful, of course, for everything this man's done for her. ¶¶
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She's a businesswoman now, and she's sick of the double standard that women have to remain chaste while men can just go out and do whatever they want. When she expresses this to Mr. Leeson, he proposes to her, hoping that marriage will set Peg straight, but she turns him down. And she'll later write... Yikes. Okay. Mm-hmm. And then I wrote, Sounds like Peg's been on my side of TikTok.
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But like having this opinion, especially writing about it in the 18th century, being bold enough and like brave enough to put it on paper is revolutionary. She is truly a badass. Totally. Which is like kind of the result of tragedy. Like when you go through bad shit, yes, it's hard. Yes, there's trauma. And also... Your spine gets real thick. You get real brave. Resilience is a motherfucker.
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I bet you are. Are? Question mark? Press play, I hope. Yeah. You know you started it. Yeah. You started it. Yeah. We're going to finish it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. So, of course, when Peg turns down Mr. Leeson's marriage proposal, their business relationship ends, too. And so Peg goes back to her old routine, trying to see as many Johns, you know, as she wants, basically earning her own money and partying in Dublin. And then... She ends up meeting a John that is named Buck Lawless.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Which is hot. And old Buck becomes one of Peg's regulars. But she actually soon finds herself falling head over heels for him.
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And it's actually the real thing this time. In the initial bliss of their relationship, Peg remains faithful to Buck and she stops sex work altogether. But her past is too much for Buck to handle emotionally. He starts getting jealous anytime he sees Peg even talking to another man. which then leads to bickering, which turns into intense fighting. And soon Buck starts physically abusing Peg.
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And it doesn't stop even after he knows she is pregnant with his baby. And at one point he beats her so badly that she has a miscarriage. Oh my God. But she stays with him because this is kind of what she knows, right? And she ends up getting pregnant with him again. So it's just seems like she is in another impossible situation with a man.
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But luck strikes when Buck Lawless, who is seeking new financial opportunities, decides to set out for America. And so he leaves her. And suddenly she's free from his tyrannical reign and she's left with their daughter and to live the life she wants to live. Buck has promised that he's going to send money once he gets to America. No money ever comes.
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So she goes back to the one thing she can depend on, sex work. Yeah. But now Peg isn't just looking for a stable income. She wants a higher income. So this is now the mid 1770s. And she, Peg and her friend and fellow sex worker, Sally Hayes, decide to team up and start their own high end brothel. Okay.
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So instead of settling for cheap rent in a poorer neighborhood to work out of, the women pull all their funds together and spring for a nice place in a wealthy neighborhood. Similar care is taken in selecting the other ladies who will be working there. They all must be beautiful, well-dressed, have enough of an education to carry on a conversation about either art or politics or music.
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When Johns visit the house, they're served champagne and treated to a full night of partying and entertainment. So Peg and Sally are offering a much more complete experience rather than just cheap, fast sex. And their brothel immediately gains a reputation among Dublin's wealthy men for being a cut above. And business starts booming. And Pig and Sally spend their money like crazy.
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I mean, not to immediately get in your face, listener, but we have spoiled you over the years of doing these 25 fucking minute intros just to entertain ourselves.
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They buy themselves the finest clothes, the best food, all the drinks. They party together almost every single night and they have the time of their lives. And then Pig gets a surprise. Buck Lawless returns from America. And like any toxic ex, he reaches out and asks her to come visit him in Cork. She refuses at first, but she still has feelings for Buck.
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He was, I can't say her first true love, but, like, she did love him. So Sally convinces her just to go see him, and she says she'll go along for protection. So the two women get to Cork, and Peg decides she and Sally should take advantage of Buck the way he took advantage of her. So they start partying in Cork on Buck's dime. Mm-hmm. And they do it for a while, like a couple weeks.
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But Peg's taste for revenge softens, and soon she and Buck rekindle their relationship. And by the time Peg returns to Dublin, she is again pregnant with Buck's child. Oh, no. So now she's feeling like things are back on track. She's running a successful business. She has a boyfriend named Buck Lawless. But in keeping with the unfortunate cycles of Peg's life, trouble is right around the corner.
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And this is awful. In November of 1779, a gang of seven college boys calling themselves the, quote, pinking dindies break into Peg's home and rape and beat her mercilessly. Oh my God. And her two-year-old daughter watches in horror as her mom is incapacitated by this monstrous gang of men. Peg survives the ordeal, but the baby she was pregnant with does not.
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But most podcasts just start. But sometimes we need to do just a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what we're going to do today. And I... We'll tell you right now a story that I think you're going to like. It's about a badass 18th century sex worker from Dublin, Ireland, who challenged both gender norms and social norms at a time when doing so was completely unheard of.
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And soon after, her two-year-old daughter dies, too. Oh, my God. And in her memoirs, Peg attributes her toddler's death to shock. Oh. Horrifying. How much can one fucking person? Right? That's just awful. And yet, Peg does not crumble where she absolutely could have and maybe should have. Instead, she decides to sue these men. Yes. Which is like unheard of.
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Like this single woman like out there alone and she basically sues them. The head of the gang tells her to drop the lawsuit or he'll kill her.
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But she will not be intimidated. She presses on. She wins the case. So the perpetrators don't only land in jail, but once their sentences are served, they're banished from Dublin. Nice. Yeah. And so as Peg is kind of going through all that, Buck Lawless is making a plan to move to London. And he tells Peg he wants her to come with him. Peg loves the life she's built for herself in Dublin.
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She doesn't want to leave it or her business. She certainly doesn't want to go to London. But Buck pushes her saying she needs a fresh start after all the things that she has suffered. So she finally gives in. She moves to London to be with the man she loves and to recover. And once she gets there, she finds out Buck has been sleeping with another woman. Buck.
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So of course she's angry, but she's also resilient and she's determined to make the most of her time in London. She finds British people to be uptight and too concerned with pleasing local nobility. And this is kind of a running thing in Peg's life. She doesn't like these like upper class men. And probably for great reason.
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I mean, those men, these rich men around her have failed her, have beaten her, have used her, whatever. So she kind of was like... It's so funny. So she's a rebel. She decides to have some fun. One afternoon, she sees the Prince of Wales in a tailor shop customizing a fancy waistcoat. So she goes in after him, orders the same waistcoat, and then gives it to her shoemaker. Nice.
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So she's basically like, oh, you think you're the one that only... Now there's two of those dresses on the red carpet. Hell yeah. And then later on, she's riding in her carriage down the street and the prince, the same prince, comes riding along.
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And I guess the thing they did was like everyone knowing it was the prince of Wales would clear off the street like a fire truck so he can have the street all to himself. Yeah. not Pig, she rides right along next to him and makes it clear to him that she considers him to be just another person like anybody else. Love it. But very quickly, Pig gets bored of London.
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So she goes back to Dublin and she gets back into her brothel business with Sally. She's finally back in her element. She runs the business. She's partying with her friends. But then like really quickly and out of the blue, she marries a man named Barry Yelverton. And Barry Yelverton isn't just any guy. He's the son of a baron, and he is insanely rich.
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So marrying him means that now people have to refer to Peg as, quote, the Right Honorable Mrs. Yelverton. Yeah, they do.
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Right Honorable. Right Honorable. So this is kind of like... The perfect middle finger to anybody who has disrespected her for being a sex worker, for all the shit she's gone through. And clearly she's doing it for the money. Sadly, Barry actually has feelings for Peg. She just wants the status. She just kind of wants, she's basically like, don't hate the player, hate the game.
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From the number one smash hit podcast.
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And it's all a game. So let's do this thing. Yeah. They actually go through with the wedding. But very soon after, Barry's father goes to Peg and says, I will pay you off to get out of here. Wow. And she's like, sounds good to me and gets paid off and leaves. Poor Barry. You know, Barry was one goofy motherfucker.
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This is the story of Irish courtesan Peg Plunkett. Peg, yes. Get ready. Main sources used for today's story are an article published on a WordPress blog called F. Yeah History by a writer named Natasha Tidd. And the article is called The Brilliant and Ballsy Life of Ireland's Favorite Courtesan, Peg Plunkett.
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He's like, what are you doing?
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He got played. He got worked. By his wife and father. Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, it's the 1790s. Peg figures it's time to retire. She has spent around 30 years in the courtesan business, both as a sex worker and as a brothel madam. She's amassed enough money to live comfortably for the rest of her life. Wow. Or so she thinks. Uh-oh.
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A large portion of her retirement funds are IOUs left by the wealthy former clients themselves.
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that she had credit so basically everything on credit they did it on credit and she assumed that they would pay because she knows they have money but when she goes and tries to collect on them they won't pay yeah and this is bad news for her because she's already bought a beautiful country house outside of dublin in the city of blackrock And she bought it on credit, obviously.
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So now all the money she is owed is not coming in. Her debt catches up to her. And before she knows it, she's thrown in prison for failing to make house payments. But life will not get Peg Plunkett down. No, it won't. It just won't. She's a warrior. So as she's sitting in prison, she realizes there's one thing that she still has on her side, and it's the truth.
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As a courtesan, her discretion was a huge asset in the success of her business. But now she has no reason to keep quiet about her decades of salacious interludes with the noblemen who will not pay her now.
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That's right. She's been a person who has been made to suffer by that concept of reputations all her life. So she's like, fine, let's do the reputation thing.
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So she writes to all the men and she's, I think, fair about this where it's like it's blackmail, but she's basically saying she's writing to all of them and saying, you owe me money and I plan to release an intimately detailed tell all book about my life. So the way you keep your name out of this book is you pay me what you owe me. Yeah. Yeah.
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Some of them take her seriously and hand over the money. Others doubt her, suspecting either she's bluffing or she couldn't even write a book if she wanted to. And those men that doubted her lose big time because Peg publishes not just one, but three tell-all memoirs about... About her life.
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And in every one, she publishes the names of the politicians, military personnel, clergymen, and, you know, like fancy royal guys.
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It's like such a brilliant idea. And it's such a like, oh, yeah, fuck all this shit. Like, why would I ever go along with this idea of that? I'm supposed to be the one. Right.
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Keep those secrets. And it's like, oh, you're a scumbag that not only. Right. You know, like cheats on your wife for all the reasons that you think it's bad that you're getting caught going to a sex worker.
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Why would I keep that secret? You don't even pay your bills.
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So the first volume comes out in 1795. It is a massive hit. Of course, the people of Ireland cannot, cannot... Stop. It's selling out. People can't wait to get their hands on what is basically the hottest piece of gossip of their lifetimes.
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And also another source is an article from the Women's Museum of Ireland website entitled Peg Plunkett, Brothel Madam. And that article was written by Karen Moynihan. And the rest of our sources are in our show notes. All right. So Margaret Plunkett, who goes by the nickname Peg, plays it close to the chest about the details of her life overall.
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I know the money Peg earns from the sales of this book is more than enough to pay off her debts to get her out of prison. But the success is so massive. She figures why stop there. Her second volume of memoirs comes out a year later in 1796, and it does just as well as the first. So, of course, Peg decides to write a third book.
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But before it hits the shelves in 1797, Peg Plunkett passes away at around 70 years old. We'll never know because you never would admit how old she was.
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It seems like it for, yeah, when I would guess median age was like around 50 or 60. I don't know. All three volumes of Peg's memoirs are in the public domain and are available to read online for free. Mm-hmm. Historian Julie Peekman has also compiled a condensed version of the tell-all with her own analysis and commentary called Peg Plunkett Memoirs of a Whore.
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While Peg's story is filled with tragedy, it's one that completely upends the expectations of an 18th century, quote, fallen woman. Mm-hmm. Because Peg took the time to write her own story in her own voice, it gave her the chance to humanize her plight and honor her own brilliance and fortitude on her own terms. And that is the story of Irish courtesan, Peg Plunkett. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
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Also imagine if like a man wrote her story and how it would turn out. It's like that idea of women actually being the ones to do it so that it's preserved the way they get to represent themselves.
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Yeah, really good.
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So basically, there's a real good ending that I won't spoil, but she is the reason we know so much about her life. But of course, she doesn't basically tell anybody her exact date of birth or exactly how old she is, anything like that. She controls the narrative. In a very empowering and mysterious way in terms of her age. So we don't know the exact year of her birth.
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This has been an Exactly Right production.
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Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
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This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.
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Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
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It's believed to be sometime between 1727 and 1742. But her memoirs do give some insight into her upbringing. She was born to a pair of first cousins. She's one of eight surviving children out of... 22. Holy shit. Yeah. That's how we like to do it, the Irish. Eight out of 22. And eight surviving, which is like the grief of losing more than half of your children is just like... Yeah.
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How did people do it back then? So... Peg grows up as a witty, fun-loving girl in Westmeath in the Irish countryside. It's the time of famine, but her father is a wealthy landowner, so Peg actually gets to enjoy a nice life and gets a good education.
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She is expected, of course, to find a suitable husband, was a stable job, move out of the family home, and then with her husband, raise some children and build a her own family. Not a particularly exciting plan to Peg. She's not necessarily all that into it, but she has watched her two older sisters follow this path. It doesn't seem that bad.
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Hey, we have some exciting podcast news. That's right. You might remember that a few weeks ago we had to say goodbye to our beloved movie podcast, I Saw What You Did.
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So she accepts the trajectory basically because she doesn't have any other choice. That's what it was for women. But all that changes after a fever infects her family. Peg manages to avoid infection, so her father sends her to live with an uncle until everyone hopefully recovers. But by the time she returns, the illness has taken both her mother and her older brother.
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And her grief-stricken father is left in shambles. He is too emotionally and mentally unwell to care for his family, so he appoints his next oldest son, Christopher, to become the head of the household. But where Peg's father was a kind and respectable man, Christopher is a power-hungry monster.
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So instead of using the family's money to take care of his siblings or for the dowries his unwed sisters need to find prospective husbands, he just spends it all on himself. He indulges in fancy clothing, food, drink, all of it. And then at home, he is a tyrant, especially to Peg and her sisters, who are now forced to do all the household work.
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When any man tries to ask for one of their hands in marriages, Christopher shuts them down. He keeps the dowry money for himself. And also he wants to keep the sisters in his home basically to be his servants.
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So one day, Peg goes to visit a friend, and when she comes home, she finds all the doors locked. And this is Christopher's way of punishing her for leaving. He leaves her outside, stranded in the cold and rain for an hour before letting her back in. So finally, one of Peg's sisters runs off to Dublin where she meets a man who's willing to marry her without a dowry.
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And so teenage Peg is desperate to escape Christopher. So she runs off to join her sister in the city. She absolutely loves Dublin, spends all her time out and about flirting with the local lads. And soon the proposals start rolling in for Peg. Men are lining up to be with her, but she needs Christopher's permission. Fuck that fucking dick. And she needs the dowry money. He refuses.
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He forces Peg to come home to Westmeath, and he's not happy that she left in the first place. He doesn't like that she started her own life. He begins to beat her. Mm-hmm. He whips her constantly, covering her in bruises, so she manages to escape again. She nearly elopes with a man behind her brother's back, even though that man is already engaged to another woman.
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But before they can seal the deal, Christopher and two of his friends break into the inn where Peg and her fiancé are staying, and they're armed with guns. They scare off the fiancé, and they drag Peg back home to Westmeath. where Christopher gives her yet another terrible beating. Shit.
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He is so abusive to Peg and her younger sister, but where Peg is rebellious and tries to escape, her sister has a harder time avoiding feelings of despair and hopelessness about the situation. She falls into a deep depression, she stops eating, and she eventually dies of malnutrition. Oh, my God. Yeah.
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So, yes, horrible situation, like in a horrible turn where it's like you grow up in one way and then all of a sudden it all just goes so dark. Yeah.
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And now on their new show, they'll be talking about the latest blockbusters, cult classics, and everything in between. They're going to have guests. They're going to play games. They're going to chop it up.
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Yeah. I mean, chances are, knowing how we Irish do it, he's just an alcoholic and he just kind of like can't be in the real world.
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That's an assumption on my part. I don't know what Peg's father was really doing. Allegedly, allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly, alcoholism is a disease. Okay. After her sister's death, Peg gets the worst beating of her life. She's whipped so badly, she vomits blood and loses consciousness. It takes three months of bedridden recovery. But she survives.
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And once she does, she decides she's getting away from her abusive brother once and for all. Yeah. She convinces her father, who, as we just said, is still letting Christopher run the household. But she does convince her father to give her enough money to pay for a carriage ride back to Dublin.
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And when she gets to Dublin, she moves back in with her married sister and she slowly regains her health and her confidence and her enthusiasm for life. She's still traumatized and in a fragile state, so when her brother-in-law introduces her to his friend, who she, in her memoirs, identifies as a Mr. Dardis, Peg is easily swept up in his kindness.
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He sympathizes with all the hardships she's been through, and of course that makes her swoon, and the two begin a romance. Mm-hmm. What do you think is going to happen next? I'm good. Peg makes a very risky 18th century decision. She decides to have sex with Mr. Dardis. Before marriage? Yep. But she's sure he's going to marry her. So she isn't concerned about ruining her reputation.
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She's basically been led along to believe this is like Both of them are in this together. So she does. And then she discovers she's pregnant. And when she tells him, she now knows, now we have to get married. But suddenly Mr. Dardis has cold feet. When she tells him he's ruined her reputation, he agrees to put her up in a brothel so she can deliver the baby in secret. Oh, my God. So she agrees.
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She continues to see him. He comes to the brothel to see her. But of course, she's like holed up there. She can't leave. So she's very unhappy there and very anxious. And she's isolated from her family and friends. So now Peg's sister starts to wonder where she is. And then the word gets out that Peg had Dardis's baby. So before Peg gets a chance to explain everything, her sister disowns her.
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And after you listen to the trailer, head over to the Dear Movies I Love You feed and click follow so you don't miss the world premiere on January 28th.
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Because it's all about reputation in the 1700s. This is like just bad fucking bad cloud. It's bad vibes. Bad vibes, bad cloud. So not only is Peg's sister disgusted by the fact that Peg had sex out of wedlock, which so did Mr. Dardis.
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And she was a teenager. So she kind of didn't know. Like she was like, this is romantic love. Totally. But her sister's also horrified. Peg lived in a brothel during her pregnancy. So Peg tries to go visit her sister to hash things out and beg her for her forgiveness. But her sister calls her a, quote, vile wretch and slams the door in her face.
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So, of course, Peg's completely destroyed by her sister's rejection. It's like, if it weren't for Mr. Dardis and the baby, Peg would be completely alone in the world. But shortly after this, the baby passes away. So now Mr. Dardis feels absolutely no obligation to take care of Peg anymore, and he kicks her out of his house. God.
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Penniless and homeless, Pig finds the cheapest boarding room possible and moves in. And with no means of income, she's left selling her own belongings piece by piece until she says, quote, she's reduced nearly to nakedness, end quote. Oh, my God. And then here's another quote from her memoirs. Pig writes, quote, I remained in that boarding room till I had nothing but what covered me.
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Not one single article wherewith to change what I wore. And for eight days had lived only on one pound of hung beef and a few potatoes using the water in which they were boiled as the only deluder of my wretched, scanty meals. So now she's desperate again. and she does the unthinkable. She returns to her family home and begs her abusive brother to take her back. Oh, man.
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But her destroyed reputation precedes her, and her horrible, controlling brother refuses to let her back in the house. And with nowhere left to go, she has to turn around and walk back to Dublin. Jesus. So on this long walk back from the country into the city, Peg runs into two men who offer her a meal and tea. She declines them at first. She's very wary of their intentions.
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She's been through this now. She's a little wiser. But then when she runs into them a second time, she decides to take them up on their offer. They lead her to a tea house and they introduce her to a wealthy wine seller named Mr. Thomas Caulfield. Mr. Caulfield takes an immediate interest in Peg. She's really pretty, by the way. There's like an etching I can show you.
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And she's like, it just makes me sad. It's like she didn't have anybody in her early teens, in her adolescence to kind of be like, hey, keep an eye out for this. Right. Do this. Wait for that. Right. No guidance. Right. So Mr. Caulfield takes immediate interest in Peg.
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He asks her all about her life while she's eating her hot meal, and he's shocked to hear about the conditions in which Peg has been living. He wants to see where she lives to see if she's really telling the truth about this tragic situation. She agrees to show him, and they start walking to Peg's boarding room. On the way, Mr. Caulfield, quote, slips two guinea into Peg's bosom.
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And he tells her that if she indeed is as poor as she says she is, he'll take care of her, protect her, and personally see that she never goes hungry again.
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Yeah. Of course, from our vantage point, it's clear Mr. Caulfield is going to take advantage of Peg, but she's Peg's young, she's in dire straits. And this is what she later says in her memoirs, quote, "...there are many virtues which when carried beyond their due bounds degenerate into vices. One of those is gratitude."
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The miseries I'd undergone were present to my mind, and he had promised he would screen me from their future approach. All these thoughts rushed at once into my mind, awakened my sincerest acknowledgements, and I esteemed it but a grateful return to promise all he requested. So that's just a fancy way of Higgs saying that she just decided to exchange sex for financial support from a man. Mm-hmm.
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And why shouldn't she? She's already been taken advantage of by Mr. Dardis, suffered the miscarriage of their child, was discarded by him. Has nowhere to go. Yeah. She has been rejected by her own shitty abusive family. She's literally has nothing to lose. She's in her 20s. So she's like, why wouldn't I? Yeah. So she hooks up with Mr. Caulfield. She gets pregnant. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He vows to continue taking care of her and the baby, even after he marries a different woman. He actually sticks to this promise, though. He provides for Peg and their son, but now Peg is considered a quote-unquote fallen woman. So she spends her nights visiting Dublin's many taverns and music halls.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
463 - We Are Never Brief
She meets other quote-unquote fallen women, and they teach her the ropes of becoming a professional high-end sex worker. And just like that, Peg starts making her own income on top of the financial support that she's getting from Mr. Caulfield. But in a tragic echo of her past, this baby that she has with Mr. Caulfield also passes away. And when that baby dies, Mr. Caulfield cuts her off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Oh, yeah. We did that. We had like a wash, like the L.A. River kind of a thing going, which still isn't romantic, unfortunately.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I really can tell you're 29. You have high hopes every year for Valentine's Day. Yeah. You know, and then you just are like, it's not going to it's not going to happen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Like nothing is like, don't do that. It's like kind of part of your profession in a way.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Holy shit. Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I met a dude on Valentine's Day, and I do think our relationship lasted longer than it needed to because of that. Like, somehow it was, like, kismet, and, like, somehow it was, like, meant to be because we met on Valentine's Day. However, if we had met on, like, February 16th, I would have been, like, a year in. I would have been like, this isn't working. That's fine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
No, not from the Krays. No, you don't say that to the Krays.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
to the drawing board on that one, if we could. See, West End. Does barn mean something else in British 50s than now?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Instead, it was three years in. That didn't need to happen. You know who you are.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Right. Like Tom Hardy. I don't know what he played. He played them in the movie.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
It's like if Alan Rickman had been a boxer. Yes. And was terrifying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Oh, yeah, we do. Like what? What do we do? Oh, yeah. We have a little announcement to make. Speaking of hearts. Hey. And relationships. And relationships. Oh, my God. We want to give you guys some exciting news. On February 5th, we announced our new partnership with iHeartRadio. It came out in the public. Yay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah. Like weirdly progressive.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I don't know why I'm expecting like a gangster to be like, I didn't like it. It's like, no, of course he fucking felt bad. He didn't give a shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
La, la, la, la, la. Ariana Grande.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So new beginnings. Exciting. Positive relationship vibes. Yeah. That's what we're all about as adults. Yeah. This little company that could exactly write media of ours, you know, we're just, we're doing it and we're trying it and we're pushing it and we're following through. Yeah. As one should in relationships. As you should.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah, and to play both of them, that's got to be a challenge. It's cool.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
But, you know, it's still the little engine that could as far as, you know, podcast networks go. And we hope that in the next year or two, we get to bring you guys some really fucking awesome new podcasts. That's always the name of the game. New, exciting ones that we like freak out when we hear pitched to us. And so that's the whole point of this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Wow. Can I just sit or do I have to actually walk like on a treadmill?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Like virtual means I can virtually walk too or I have to walk.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I just have the best idea right now. So like you get a treadmill and it has like the walking tours of like the like beautiful or the walking hikes and the mountains and the forest and all the beautiful hikes you can take. Yes. Why aren't there like ghost tour treadmill walks? Yes. And like, you know, Jack the Ripper, like neighborhood treadmill walks.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So that your heart rate keeps going up and keeps going up. Oh, my God. Brought to you by my favorite murder. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
That was so good. Thank you. Good job. Thank you. Thank you, Tom Hardy. You've done it again. You have. It's all Tom Hardy's fault and we appreciate it. That's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
All right, well, here's one that a lot of people are going to be mad at me about, that I'm mad at me about. Okay. Because the timing is bad, and it's a bad story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
This is the Civil War. It's something that is a lot of us who have anxiety. It's on our minds right now. Even though this is a story from over 45 years ago. This is the story of the deadliest aviation accident in history. I know. Alejandra called me last week and was like, are you sure you want to cover this? And I'm like, let's just do it. But let's talk about what's happening currently, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
You know? Yep. So we don't shy away here, except sometimes we do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
This story is wild because it's a story of chance. Like, so many little things, human error, the weather, like, things you could not control, all lining up in such a way that this one event occurred. And it results in a tragedy that ultimately claims the lives of 583 people. I know. This disaster also led to some major changes in the way international aviation works.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
That said, safety experts have been warning for years that there are still gaps in the systems and that another tragedy is likely. Their warnings have only just recently come to fruition in the recent American Airlines crash in Washington, D.C. We'll talk about the end. This is the story of the Tenerife airport disaster. Do you know it? Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Did you watch the Nova episode called The Deadliest Plane Crash? It's like I survived. What year was it from? It's 2006. It feels old. I may have. Yeah, yeah. I bet you did because it totally reads like an I survived episode. Okay. And it's so hard to watch. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. That was the main source I used when I watched it and cried.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
But then I was like, Vince, I shouldn't do this this week, right? And he was like, I'm not worried about it. And I'm like, oh, it's just us who have anxiety. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah, in a car accident. Cars are less safe than airplanes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah. And I think that we also feel some kind of control when it comes to stepping into our bathtub or getting into a car. We at least have a little bit of control over what's happening. And in an airplane, you give it all up. And so it's scary.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah, carry a beta blocker. You don't have to take it, but just like knowing that it's in my purse does help sometimes. Okay. Also, we're getting on a plane next month, you and I, so sorry about that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Someone's flying right now and they're like, I'm just going to listen until I can't anymore. Yeah. Jessica, stay with us. You've got this. Okay. So let's talk about the Canary Islands. They're a chain of seven islands off the coast of northwestern Africa, as you know. However, they're Spanish territories. This is clearly a bit contentious with everybody.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
There have been several movements for independence over the years with disputes of who controls some of the waters around the islands. Regardless, we're not getting to that today. The islands are a hugely popular tourist destination. You've heard of them, right? I have because there was those murders. Oh, that's right. Yeah, recently. Regardless, so the islands are sunny. They're tropical.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
It probably is. What are you doing for Valentine's Day, everyone? Hey, what do you like about Valentine's Day?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
It's tropical weather pretty much year round. And they are home to hundreds of beach resorts and water parks. A beautiful place to go. When you hear British people talking about a sun holiday, they're probably talking about the Canary Islands. Like they go there a lot. So here we are on the island of Gran Canaria on March 27th, 1977. It's shortly after 1 p.m.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
at the Gran Canaria Airport, which is the main airport servicing the island. So it's a pretty sizable island and airport. And a bomb explodes in the departures area. Oh. So this is just one of those little moments. It has nothing to do with the plane crash that's going to happen later. It's just a chance thing that leads to the next thing, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
A group called the Canary Islands Separatist Movement takes credit for the explosion, injures eight people, and the group threatens that there will be a second explosion that day. So that's the first thing that happens. The airport's evacuated, obviously, and all flights that are scheduled to land there are diverted, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Most of them are diverted to the much smaller Los Rodeos Airport on the neighboring island of Tenerife. And it's about a 25 minute flight between the two islands. Los Rodeos has only a single runway. It's very small. One large taxiway and four much smaller taxiways branching off of that. So it's like the Burbank Airport compared to like LAX. Right. You know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And it's not designed to accommodate the number of aircraft that have now been diverted there because of this unexpected explosion. Also, it's a Sunday, and so there are only two air traffic controllers on duty at this smaller airport. So among the flights that have been diverted to Los Rodeos are Pan Am Flight 1736, which flew out of LAX. Yeah. You know all this. Do you know this one?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
No, no, no. I don't know. I don't know like that. OK.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Totally. So it had flown out of LAX, made a refueling stop at JFK in New York, and then the other flight was KLM flight 4805. That one originated in Amsterdam, and that was a charter flight for a tour company called the Holland International Travel Group. So both planes are, as you just said, Boeing 747s. Mm-hmm.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
They all gave me a dopamine hit looking at all the beautiful presents we got. And these also gave the same thing. Yes. Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
the first wide-body plane designed for commercial travel to be considered a jumbo jet. And they have a distinctive upper deck as well, which we don't have anymore, right, upper decks?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Huge jumbo jets. So, like, those were the only two jumbo jets that went to Tenerife that day. Everything else was smaller, but, you know, they weren't supposed to be there. Right. The pilot of the KLM flight, the Dutch flight, is Jacob van Zanten. He is one of the most senior pilots at KLM. In fact, he is the airline's chief pilot and is in charge of training new pilots.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
He's like the best of the best, this kind of older senior pilot. He's so well regarded in the industry that he is featured prominently in KLM's advertising. Like when they show like, these are the people who fly you. It's like, this guy is like... Did you get to see a picture of him? Yeah. He's like a, you know, older, gray, zaddy type. Nice. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
No extra words because there's just like, yeah. Because they're like, logic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah. Yeah. There's no chitchat. You're totally right. So he's he's definitely that guy. However, if we're wrong about that, write in pilots. Let us know if we're wrong. But I will say about this guy, though, and you'll like this. He everyone says he's a warm and friendly guy. Oh, great. And that he insisted his co-workers call him by his first name instead of addressing him as captain.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So like he's fucking down to earth. Chill. Chill. Good at what he does. Maybe he'll tell you about that one time he saw a UFO. The weird thing on this guy. Yes, like he's so likable. Okay. And the first officer, co-pilot, he's pretty green and he's currently being trained by Captain Van Zanten. And almost everyone on that flight is Dutch. Many of them are families going on vacation.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And among the Dutch passengers are several tour guides who are from the Netherlands originally, but now most live on the Canary Islands. And they're coming with the group to the Canary Islands. Among them is a young woman in her 20s named Robina van Lanschot. Both flights land at Los Rodeos around 2 p.m. You know, they'd been diverted, as I keep telling you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
The passengers from the Dutch KLM flight are allowed off the plane and into the airport while they wait, which is kind of crowded, but at least they get off the plane. And it's here that Robina makes a split-second decision. See, her boyfriend, like newish boyfriend, lives on Tenerife, where they had to land, where they were diverted. So she decides to stay on the island and go see him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
She's close friends with the other two Dutch tour guides on the flight. She tries to convince them to, like, come with her. We'll make a night out of it. We'll have some fun. But they've already made plans to see friends on Gran Canaria. And so they're like, we're just going to wait till we're allowed to get back on the plane and go back to the island.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Like, they want to get this whole trip over with. Yeah. So the passengers on the Pan Am flight from L.A., they have to stay on the plane, unfortunately. Nearly all of them had departed from Los Angeles and they had already made that stop in New York. So at this point, they've all been traveling for about 12 hours. You know, probably really shitty conditions back in the 70s. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Lots of cigarettes. Lots of smoking. Lots of cigarette smoke. They're anxious to complete this final 25-minute leg of their trip. They're like, can we get this over with? Among these passengers is a 27-year-old woman named Joni Holt. Joni is a former police officer and has a three-year-old daughter back home in San Diego. She's divorced and in a relatively new relationship with a man named Jack.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And she and Jack are about to go on this trip of a lifetime together in this new relationship they're in. They're going on a two-week cruise through the Mediterranean. And actually a large proportion of the passengers on that flight are supposed to go on the same cruise. It's scheduled to leave from Gran Canaria and make stops in the Canary Islands, Morocco, Sicily, Athens.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Like everyone is just ready for this flight to be over so they can move on with their lives. Yeah. So Joni and her boyfriend have splurged on first-class tickets for the flight, and the luxurious Pan Am 747 has a first-class bar area on the upper deck. Wow. That upper deck you love. At this point on the journey, Joni and her boyfriend have befriended their seatmates, something I don't ever do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Well, Alex Whitney on Instagram said that I thought this was the craziest merch drop for a second. Wow. Which music ATT said, need the microphone pipe. Oh, my God. And like, how great would that be if that was our new merch is just a line of pipes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
No, God no. You shouldn't. Once they've been diverted to Tenerife, some of those seatmates invite them upstairs to the lounge to hang out. But Joni and Jack decide to stay downstairs in their seats. They're just like, they want to be where they're supposed to be when the flight's supposed to take off. Like they're ready to freaking go. Yeah. So they don't go upstairs to the bar.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Remember that flight to Australia that had a bar in it? You won't remember that, but Vince and I remember that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Yeah. Yeah. So First Class has a dedicated crew, and among them on the Pan Am flight are best friends Suzanne Donovan and Joan Jackson. These two young women try to coordinate so that they work on the same flights together. That's how much they enjoy each other's company. So...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
At about 5 p.m., the Grand Canaria Airport has been secured and reopened, and so flights are allowed to begin taking off for that 25-minute journey. Now, the two air traffic controllers are going to have to play a game of Tetris to move all these unexpected planes around to give them space to take off down that one small runway that they have.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Then, at the same time, one of these other fucking bits of chance happens. A thick fog begins to roll in. I know. Fucking fog. The airport is 2,000 feet above sea level, which you know means it's prone to thick cloud cover at times. And there's another issue. The center lights on the runway aren't working. Crucial.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
At this point, everyone has been stranded at Los Rodeos for about three hours. They're anxious to get into the air. In addition to this, the Dutch KLM crew is in danger of timing out, which basically means that everyone working that flight would have to stay a certain amount of hours at that airport before they're allowed to fly again. And there's not room for that on the island.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
They're all fucking over it. They just kind of are in a hurry in a way they wouldn't be normally. And so because of this, maybe not everyone is thinking every step through. The air traffic controllers instruct the KLM flight to taxi to the end of the runway. And then they're supposed to wait for the Pan Am flight to follow behind it and get behind it to take off after it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
All the other planes at the airport are on the taxi or a holding area because these are the two big planes. But there's interference and the radio transmissions aren't clear. There's also the language barrier issue. All of the communications are being done in English, but the air traffic controllers and the KLM pilots don't have a standard aviation-centered knowledge of the language.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
The air traffic controller's first language is Spanish. The KLM flight crew's first language is Dutch. And so the two groups are just not working with a standardized aviation English vocabulary, just the limited amount of English that they both happen to know. So obviously things are going to get mixed up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
The Dutch-speaking pilots on the KLM flight taxi to the end of the runway, as they're supposed to, and then Captain Van Zanten says, okay, we are at takeoff. And then the air traffic controllers say, OK, standby for takeoff. I will call you. But because of the radio interference, only the OK is audible in the KLM cockpit. So no one had actually given the KLM flight clearance to take off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
But Captain Van Zanten must have misunderstood as he initiates takeoff. He basically goes down the runway. They have to do a U-turn. And they're supposed to wait for the other flight to go down and go behind it. But it's still driving down the runway. Right. They're like basically facing each other. The transmissions are choppy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And in the Pan Am flight that's still taxiing down the runway, they don't hear everything, but they still say, quote, we're still taxiing down the runway. But this transmission overlaps with one from air traffic control. And in the KLM cockpit, they only hear high-pitched noise as their plane barrels directly at the Pan Am flight, which they can't see through that dense fog.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So it's just barreling towards this other plane. Yeah. While all this is going on, the passengers in first class on the Pan Am flight, they're kind of aware of what's going on. Joni remembers feeling nervous about the maneuvering that they had to do around the KLM flight. She remembers that her boyfriend joked, quote, don't worry, if they hit us, you won't feel a thing, end quote.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Murderino weed would be great.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
But the KLM crew does hear the next transmission when the tower tells the Pan Am crew to report when they're clear. And so one member of the KLM crew then asks over the radio while they're at full speed taking off if this means they're not clear already. Like, clearly in that cockpit as well, there was some confusion. Like, with everybody.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Are you saying we're not clear? Right. And the captain, who's like... thinks we're clear and taking off is like old school seasoned captain. So like questioning him is probably like not something most people do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So that clearly was his way of being like, this isn't right. So then the Pan Am flight comes into view of the KLM flight that's trying to take off. And the last recording recovered from the KLM cockpit is Captain Van Zant crying out as he tries to pull up and take off to avoid hitting the Pan Am flight. So he just like fucking tries so hard to pull up. But
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
They had just gotten a bunch of fuel on the plane, too, which made it heavier. There are about eight seconds when the two planes are visible to each other. And in those eight seconds, the captain of the Pan Am flight named Victor Grubbs says, quote, God damn it, that son of a bitch is coming. And he tries to steer his plane off the runway to get it out of the way.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So, sorry, they're both taking off at each other, essentially? The Dutch flight is taking off quickly in the direction of the Los Angeles flight. That's just taxiing and coming slowly forward. Okay. Yeah. So they're both coming towards each other. And then the Dutch flight is actually going really fast and trying to take off. Oh, my God. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Despite the KLM flight trying to pull up and the Pan Am flight trying to veer away, it's no use. The KLM flight just gets off the ground, but slices right through the upper deck of the Pan Am flight, resulting in an instant explosion. I know. The KLM flight remains airborne for a few seconds before crashing to the ground in a fireball.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
There are no survivors from the KLM flight, which had 248 people aboard. Wow. So meanwhile, at first, Pan Am First Officer Robert Bragg doesn't think their flight has been extensively damaged. They're the one who got hit that we're taxiing because all he could feel was a bit of shaking. And then he realizes that all the windows in the cockpit are gone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And in this model of 747, the cockpit is on the upper level. So Robert turns around in a seat and sees the tail of the airplane, meaning the entire top part of the plane had just been sliced right off.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I know. Just turns around and like he can see the tail of the plane from the cockpit. He says, quote, we had 28 people in the upstairs lounge. The lounge was no longer in the plane. It was just a big hole there. End quote. That's the lounge that Joanie and her boyfriend had considered going up to, but instead had stayed in their seats.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So Joni had felt the plane veer to the left before the impact. And the next thing she remembers is this horrific scene of devastation around her and destruction. There's debris and small fires everywhere in the cabin. But next to her, her boyfriend Jack is also still alive. They're both injured, but not horrifically so.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And together they climb over the debris to a hole where one of the plane's doors used to be. And 747s are high off the ground. It's about a 12-foot jump from the door to the ground. And a man is already down there telling Joni that he'll catch her. So she is able to jump from that hole to the ground.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
And meanwhile, Jack starts to help a flight attendant get other passengers to this door to get off of the plane.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
At some point, terrifyingly, part of the plane collapses, but this actually makes the jump lower, so it's easier to get people to the ground. So they help get people off of the plane, which is incredible. And eventually, Jack also gets off the plane and is reunited with Joanie. I know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Among those who have also survived the impact are best friends Suzanne and Joan, and they both instruct the people who can make it to the door to leave everything behind, and they help them get off of the burning plane, and eventually they have no choice but to get off as well.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Once on the ground, Joan, the flight attendant, thinks they are going to walk around the plane and find more survivors who have exited through the doors, but that doesn't happen. Some passengers do manage to get out over one of the wings of the plane, but the majority of the people on the flight are either killed on impact or suffocate in the fire.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Of those on the Pan Am flight, 331 people die and only 61 survive.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
However, 61 survivors, I mean, miraculous.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
You can smell the cigarette smoke that comes with them. You can go to Instagram and check out all of the beautiful ceramics that have come. And then stay tuned in the future for more of that stuff because we have to. We have to. There's so much.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
You probably got your purse with you because you just are like, just totally in shock.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
So in the aftermath, large memorial services for both flights are held. The Dutch service for the KLM flight is held in a hangar to accommodate more than 300 caskets, which is, I guess, staggering to see them all together. And those who died in the Pan Am flight are buried in Westminster, California. Wow. The only person who should have been on that KLM flight who does survive is Robina.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Remember the tour guide who stayed behind on Tenerife to see her boyfriend? At that point, the two had only known each other for four months, but they go on to get married. And in that 2006 Nova documentary, they say they've never separated since that day. She's like, love saved my life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I know. Yeah. And in 2007, a memorial to the crash and its 583 victims is dedicated at the airport in Tenerife. So this tragedy leaves the aviation industry reeling and leads to major changes. Across all major airports and international airlines, there's now a standard protocol for simple, universal English phrases. No air traffic controllers can use words like okay or Roger.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Those words are not used anymore.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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No one says the word takeoff unless permission for takeoff is being given. Pilots and air traffic controllers only use the word departure before that. So because they're like, like hold for takeoff, you don't say that anymore. It's like you can't say the word takeoff until you're, because that's kind of what happened is it just got a little confused. The misunderstanding. Right. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So you won't hear that word unless it's allowed. Well, flying is still statistically very safe, as you and I know. Just a few weeks ago, we saw the first accident involving a major U.S. carrier in 16 years. This came after several close calls. In 2023, in the span of a few weeks, there were three near misses on American runways with planes almost colliding. I know, I hate it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Safety experts had cautioned that these misses should be taken as a warning to address issues like understaffing among air traffic controllers and modernizing warning systems. Unfortunately, these issues have not been addressed completely enough. And on January 30th, just this past month, a Black Hawk helicopter collided with an American Airlines flight that was landing at D.C. 's Reagan Airport.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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67 people were killed. There were no survivors, as we know. And in fact, while the victims of the crash were still being pulled from the Potomac, Trump blamed diversity hiring in the air traffic control industry for the crash. And look, yes, we can totally get into politics here. I'm obviously no expert, but it's important to bring this stuff up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And I'll just quote an ex-user named Amoney Resists, who said, quote, "...on your second day, you, one, fired the head of the Transportation Security Administration." Two, fired the entire Aviation Security Advisory Committee. Three, froze hiring of all air traffic controllers. Four, fired 100 top FAA security officers. End quote.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Now, many argue that these changes wouldn't have led to such immediate consequences that would have affected this crash that happened on the 30th. And at the time, the air traffic controller was filling in for a coworker and doing a job that was usually performed by two people. Which, of course, points to the above understaffing issues. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But you can't argue that they more than likely will eventually affect those things.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
Right. And, you know, however, there are things you can put into place that like, you know, looks out for those things. let's call them acts of God or whatever or misunderstandings or misinformation or security issues or communication issues.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Insists on putting out weird because it can't just be good. No, it has to be weird. And I'm just reading the three that we have listed here. And I'm terrified. Yeah, I don't like the words that are going together. And I don't like the feeling of my mouth already. Well, you're going to have to eat five of each. Let's try it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, like that's the little bright piece of it that we can look at is that she wanted to see him so bad and she went and ran into his arms and... Never left. Never left.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Oh, there's no happy ending sometimes, and that's okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
No, thank you. Okay, let's do it. Alejandra, bring it in. Thank you. Oh, my God. That's so cute.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Okay. The one I'm most scared of are these ones. The Krabby Patty gummies. It's just candy. It's not... Isn't the Krabby Patty crab? No. Okay. It's just gummies. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. I can handle it. It's like a little hamburger gummy thing, which I always thought was cute. I was sad that like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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hamburger gummies and pizza gummies that just look like that you know those like didn't take off until I was older yeah like just a little too old to like buy them for myself and so I feel like I missed out a little bit but here they are hey nine-year-old Georgia get in here tastes a little bit like lipstick you can't eat it like a traditional hamburger
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, it's just candy. It's just delicious gummies. All right. This looks like a piece of mac and cheese. It smells like gummy. Is that mac and cheese flavored gummy? I think it is. I'm trying to dig in there. It tastes like a sandbox, like a huge sandbox. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's a little bit like macaroni, like just plain macaroni without the cheese. Maybe. You know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I think you're right. I think it's weird that I really want to save these cute little plastic tubs that they both came in for future use just in case you need them for something in the future.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I don't know. It's got a kick. It looks like a red velvet cupcake. It's got chocolate vibes and spicy, which I don't fucking mind. You like it? I kind of, I don't like it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She had to check her notes on that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I bet there's someone who would love Tabasco cupcakes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
467 - Nipper & The Hat
I have a podcast recommendation. What is it? It's a true crime podcast called... Beers with Queers. Have you heard of it? No. It's an LGBTQIA plus related true crime podcast. And they have two episodes where they do an interview with the Trans Doe Task Force. Oh, cool. Which I think is so important. It's episode 116 and 117. So I just wanted to mention those and check that podcast out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Beers with Queers. Beers with Queers. The hosts, Jordi and Brad, are so, so funny. And it's just a great true crime podcast. So make sure you check that out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's real. We all do.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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chip out he's legendary in the comedy community truly and so are you for loving our podcast enough that you would tell people in a brand new class that you would take we appreciate you not trusting authority though and being like mr pope no you don't like we get that yes we get that like um immediate what's the word distrust yeah totally support that right that like snap judgment of like bullshit
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And it wasn't just any party, by the way. It was Chris Fairbank's 50th birthday party. That's right. It was so fun. So good. Everyone who was anyone was there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Happy birthday. Okay. ERM highlights real quick. Let's do it. We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Wow. And then over on Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, Roz slides down the banister to welcome the comedian Rosebud Baker. They discuss a haunted Toys R Us, spirit babies, and a wild encounter with a medium at a comedy club.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's just got everything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then there's a lot we don't know these days. I think you and I would be the first to admit. Mm-hmm. But one thing we can all agree on is that there's never been a worse time than now. That's true. So in honor of that, we're relaunching the This Is Terrible Keep Going design, this time in navy blue with white lettering.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So grab your unisex shirt, a ladies tee, a zip hoodie, whatever you want, because really it is terrible right now and we absolutely need everyone to keep going. Yes, please keep going. Please. Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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No. The ravine. It's like the least romantic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Don't fucking tell me D-Lite is a one-hit wonder. I know every fucking word to every album. Now, that's what I have to sing if you start talking about D-Lite. This has gotten personal. So the town has that charming, sleepy vibe to it and outside the bustle of London. So it's the last place, of course, that one would think something dark would happen, except if you're in a true crime.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then you expect it. You absolutely know. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Not new to you. We've already done an episode in 2025, except we recorded that way back in the olden days. Yeah. 25 years ago in 2024. Yeah. For us, it was last year. Yeah. We tricked you. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. We're back after a fucking month-long vacay. Oh, my God. Senses are overloaded. It's very intense in here. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Don't light up a room. Don't make everyone smile. David Lynch knows this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And you know it as a listener. Yeah. So but back in August of 1981, that peaceful facade was shattered when a well-liked, friendly local shopkeeper was found brutally murdered in the back of her convenience store. What followed was a case that went cold for 40 years until a then teenage girl came forward with a shocking admission and the whole case unraveled.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Well, this is the story of the murder of Carol Morgan. The main sources I use for this story are remarks from the judge from the eventual sentencing in this case and reporting from the BBC, of course, and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So we're in 1981 and Carol and Alan are a couple who met in a support group for divorced people and got married four years later.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Carol's 36. Alan is a younger man at 31. Hot.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's also so funny, like, and this is like, you know, when we're always like in today's money, that would be whatever. It's also like in today's age, 31 is actually 45. Right. You know what I mean? Yes. And they do look like this typical British couple. She's got this pretty like feathery blonde bob. He's got this weird Caesar cut and looks kind of sketch, you know, but very British.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And like 36 and 31 is like actually in your late 40s and in England in the 80s. Yeah, all of us. All of us. I mean, not a pretty time. So together they're raising two kids, Dean, who's 14, and Jane, who's 12. And the kids are from Carol's previous marriage. And for the past year and a half, the Morgans have owned and operated a little corner store in a residential neighborhood.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's described interchangeably as a convenience store and a newsstand. So I think it's like that, but British. So kind of the like place where you buy a newspaper or candy or cigarettes, just kind of like a pop in little British, you know, grocer, green grocer.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, maybe. Maybe. But more newspapers. Right. So I can't breathe in this fucking dress. So the family lives in the apartment above the shop. Carol is well-liked in the village and is known for being kind and helpful around the shop. And she's often described as a absolutely devoted mother to her two children. So here we are. It's a Thursday night, August 13th, 1981.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That evening, Alan had taken the teens to a double feature movie in nearby Luton. Now, the three of them going to see a movie is actually unusual in itself. This stepdad taking the two, a 12 and 14 year old to see this movie is weird because Alan didn't really spend a lot of time with the kids when Carol wasn't around. In fact, the family didn't do much together afterwards.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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at all anymore especially because there's tension in the marriage but for some reason that night they go to a double feature and things seem fine they get back to the shop around 10 45 pm when they come back alan sends the kids up to the apartment while he goes into the shop When he goes in, he sees that it's a mess and merchandise is scattered everywhere, almost like there's been a robbery.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He proceeds to the storeroom in the back, and there he's met with the horrifying discovery of Carol's body. She's lying in a pool of blood. Her body had been savagely attacked with what investigators will later believe to be either a machete or a cleaver or an axe. Horrible. I know. She's been struck between 10 and 15 times. It's completely savage.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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The main investigator later says it was quote, the worst attack I've seen on a human being. Yeah. The perpetrator had also robbed the store of 500 pounds, which in today's money would be worse, I guess.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Right. And actually, it's also weird because the cash wasn't stolen from the register. It was stolen from a hard to find drawer in the shop's back office, which to me actually isn't that weird. Like if someone were threatening her, like, where's the money? I want more like you're going to lead them to it. You know, yeah, yeah.
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It's like one of those things where they're always like, it's weird because it wasn't forced entry. So they must have known their perpetrator. But it's like people answer the fucking door all the time. And then people kick their way. You know, it's just OK. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, then the killer also steals 105 packs of cigarettes.
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Psycho. Totally. Like having the wherewithal to then go about your business speaks to how evil you are. Absolutely. So Detective Superintendent Brian Prickett of the local police is put on the case and investigators quickly hear from multiple witnesses that a young man with light brown hair, who's about five feet, six inches tall, was seen near the shop on the evening of Carol's murder.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And there's a composite sketch drawn. Witnesses say he was seen clutching two plastic shopping bags to his chest or probably with the cigarettes. They say the man left in a station wagon that was parked outside the shop. The police obviously quickly confirmed that Allen couldn't have committed the murders. His alibi is completely solid because he was at the movies, weirdly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But as the investigation goes on, Alan, of course, starts to look suspicious. As it turns out, Alan had a pretty shady side. A lot of people in the neighborhood have had bad interactions with him, and they hear from multiple people that he has a reputation of saying offensive things, particularly to women, and that he's known to be a bit of a bully.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Neighbors who live near the shop and where the Morgans live say that Alan is known to have had several relationships with other women. It's like a well-known fact about town. Alan himself tells the police of his own volition that he has been in a relationship with another woman for some time. Just tells them that. Oh. In fact, everyone knows about this relationship.
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It's with a woman named Margaret, and not long before Carol's murder, Margaret's husband had gone into the shop to confront Alan about it. Alan and Carol's marriage had been very strained because of this, because Carol knew about the affair. But the month before she died, she had told her uncle that she and Alan were trying to give things another shot.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So it doesn't take long for rumors to start to circulate that Alan had something to do with his wife's death. And this is just so absurd. There is this news footage of him being interviewed outside the shop in the months following the murder. And in it, Alan addresses these rumors. It's so fucking absurd. The reporter's like, you know, why are people saying stuff about you? What are they saying?
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And he says, quote, to be offhand that I killed my wife. But as the police know, and as you yourselves know, well, I was in Luton taking the kids to the pictures, end quote. And he's just like totally casual about it as if he's talking about like a robbery. Yeah. And not the brutal murder of his wife. Right. Saying like, I'm not a suspect. He's making sure to really get it out there. Right.
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Everyone knows that. Yeah. And then when asked why people think he killed his wife, he says, I was happy-go-lucky, I suppose, like afterwards. I was a bit of a womanizer, but that's all. I didn't profit from it, end quote. And when asked how Carol's death has affected him, this is the fucking craziest. Alan says, quote, affect me?
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Well, I closed the business for seven weeks while the police were investigating it. I lost a lot of stock I had to throw out and I've had to sell the business at a loss. End quote. That's how the murder has affected him.
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Like you don't even know to pretend to cry. I'm not saying that that's OK and that should happen. But everyone else knows like this is how you're like just do these little things. Yeah. At least pretend. Right. But. When you're that far gone, you don't even understand that pretending is necessary.
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Totally. That's a good point. So then the investigators look into the couple's finances and they find that the shop hadn't been doing great.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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The foot traffic in the area isn't very heavy and the margins at a store like that are very tight, you know, and the couple had recently bounced a check to one of their suppliers and they had looked into selling the shop and opening in another location, which Carol had wanted to do after she found out about the affair to get a fresh start.
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Okay. So that's a big fucking loan. It's a big loan. They still owe too much on the shop to sell it and open a different store. And the loan is tied to, say it with me, life insurance policies on both Alan and Carol. If either of them were to die, proceeds from their life insurance would pay off the loan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I mean, it's just so ugly. Yeah, it is. It is. And there's more. Police find out that in the days leading up to Carol's murder, Alan had made several large cash withdrawals from his bank account. He had also ordered an unusually large amount of cigarettes for the store. Oh. Yeah. Almost like I can pay you in the cash that's in the drawer in the back and in cigarettes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And his strange behavior, of course, doesn't go unnoticed, especially when in sharp contrast to Alan's reaction, an anonymous person from the community who's described simply as a businessman, puts up a 5,000 pound reward for information leading to the capture and conviction of Carol's killer.
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And he says it's because, quote, our town shouldn't have to live in fear of a maniac like this, end quote. So it's just a concerned citizen who's uncomfortable with a murder like this, you know, going unsolved in his town. Yeah. And he fucking cares more.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Unfortunately, this financial information that they were struggling about the life insurance, about the loan, all of that stuff is never revealed to the public or to Alan himself. They never told him they knew that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And their reasoning was that they were hoping that by giving Alan a sense of confidence, he would slip up and reveal more either to them or the media or like brag to friends or some shit. But it doesn't happen. But they still don't release that information, which I don't know to me. Sounds like important information to give to potential witnesses that like know them. You know what I mean?
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So, yeah, he never gives up any information. And Alan winds up marrying Margaret, the woman he was having an affair with. And the two of them and the two children move out of town to the north of England. They all move away as a family. So that's the state of affairs from 1983 on. Every two years, the case had come up for review. Witnesses had been re-interviewed.
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The evidence is looked over again. Detective Prickett says that the case is a thorn in his side and he is desperate to see it solved. And then finally, in 2018, Detective Prickett is officially retired and a new set of eyes get on this case. That's when Detective Supt Foster, his name is Supt. Spell it. S-U-P-T. Okay. I mean, it's kind of a badass name, right? I don't mind it.
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He takes over as the head of the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, and Hetfordshire Cold Case Review Team. And one of his first jobs is just reviewing this big 40-year-old unsolved case of the murder of Carol Morgan. Yeah. So police circle back to all the witnesses. They go back and check all these notes. And they come across now a 60-year-old woman named Jane Bunting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So Jane was only 17 years old at the time of the murder. And she was friendly with Margaret, who was the woman that Alan was having an affair with and eventually married. It seems like maybe Margaret was like a mentor kind of to Jane. And when they interview her, Jane says, quote, I've been waiting for you to come see me for 40 years.
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And she has a shocking revelation. Jane tells police that one night in the months leading up to Carol's murder, she had run into Alan at a local watering hole called the Dolphin Pub. She says that evening, Alan asked her if her ex-boyfriend might know anyone who he could hire to murder his wife. And she was horrified by that. Then you're like, why didn't she go to the police?
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You know, but her reasoning for never going forward are complicated and they're understandable from the point of view of a 17 year old in a way, because she says that over the decades, she kind of figured that the police, if they truly suspected Alan, he would have been arrested already.
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So she didn't think he was a suspect and never they didn't make it seem like he was a suspect because they didn't give any information out about the financial misdeeds. So that's like if she had known that. maybe she would have put it together and come forward.
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Well, the other reason is that she stayed silent out of a feeling of misplaced loyalty to Margaret. Which I think is like, I love the cases where it's like, it's a cold case for so long and people's loyalties change. And that's how a lot of those things get solved. People come forward, which I think is great.
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It also just speaks to like, I know that it's important to keep evidence like a secret and, you know, so only the killer knows. But eventually if it's cold and nothing's happening, you've got to give out more information. Maybe someone will have, you know, something to say. Yeah.
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After Jane's revelation and with all the other evidence they had gathered against Alan, in 2019, both Alan and Margaret are charged with conspiring to murder Carol. Margaret is found not guilty. But in June of 2024, at the age of 74, Alan is convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Wow. Yeah. Finally, Alan's conviction didn't bring the closure everyone had hoped for.
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Carol's family was torn apart. This is so awful. After their mother's death and moving away with their step-parents, Carol's kids each write letters to Carol's parents saying they have new lives and that they don't want to be in contact anymore. And of course, Carol's parents are devastated. They lost their daughter and now their grandchildren.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And they will always believe that the kids didn't write the letters of their own violation.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Right, they're the connection you have. Yeah. And Carol's kids, now adults in their 50s, still struggled with the truth about their stepfather. Dean says that after he hears about the charges, he called Alan, who assured him it's all a big misunderstanding. Dean kind of pushes back. And then Dean says, quote, the argument became heated and he put the phone down on me, meaning he hung up on him.
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while he was trying to get to the bottom of his mother's murder. And then he says, we have not spoken since, end quote. In 2024, at her stepfather's sentencing, Jane, who was 12 at the time of her mother's murder, gave a heart-wrenching victim impact statement in court saying, quote, the man I spent my entire life calling dad lied to me for my entire life.
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Oh, it's all shimmery and shiny and silky.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It has been an incredibly distressing and confusing period of my life that has made me doubt everything I knew about my mother and my step-parents, end quote. While Alan is now in prison, there are still, of course, unanswered questions. He's never revealed any information that could lead to the identification and arrest of the man that he hired to murder his wife.
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And that person's identity remains a mystery, although, of course, police are still looking into it. The town of Leighton Buzzard still remembers the murder of Carol Morgan. It was a small town, and the murder was something that haunted the community for the 40 years it went unsolved. Yeah, I bet. The case might have been closed, but the mystery surrounding it remains, as does the pain it caused.
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Leighton Buzzard, for all its charm, will never forget what happened that night. And that is the story of the murder of Carol Morgan. Wow.
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Our first live show in fucking 10 years or whatever is coming at you from Dubai. From his hair salon.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then what happens when a small town, you know, police force who haven't investigated a lot of murders try to do that.
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Yeah. Yeah, it's all circumstantial.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, for real.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Us getting our hair done. Get ready. I want extensions, like real for real Mormon fucking TikTok mom extensions.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Living my fucking dream life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, like I get the stealing cars and having some fun, but like looking for trouble.
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Looking for trouble. Got it.
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Oh, my God. Mom talk.
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And it's like fucking the baby mama over, too, because that's 30 months of not having that second income. Yes, that's right.
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Okay. I have two things I wrote down because I was like, you're going to forget this by the time vacation's over. Okay. Recommendations. And I bet you've already watched it. Okay. Vince and I binged the fuck out of Ripley. Did you watch it? Which one was that? How's your neck? I actually threw my back out. Did you? The reason I did that is because this dress is so fucking tight. Seriously.
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It's almost like they say the crime doesn't fit the punishment. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. That's what it meant.
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It just like barely fits, which is fine.
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Right. That key thing is brilliant. He could be a prop maker. Make him a spy. I bet he'd be a great spy.
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There's not a moment to breathe in this dress. There's not a millimeter of a moment for me to breathe out in this dress. It's kind of acting as a truss. It is acting as a truss. Acting as. I guess.
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I mean, it's almost like your sanity depends on you plotting something. It's like whether or not it could happen or would happen or is absolutely possible at all. You're going to go nuts if you don't have like aren't able to put your brain in a certain direction and train it on something like that.
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Because you're gonna get somewhere with them and maybe not to the place that you're like fucking dreaming of, but it's gonna be a couple steps ahead at least. You might get yourself a true crime podcast. Dream big, everyone. Dream big. It's pretty goddamn great.
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I mean, kind of fuck people over.
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This is like... Yeah, I'm obsessed with this.
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Underwear with pockets? Come on.
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Around there. If you go to our social media or our YouTube, you can see the dress. Oh, yes. Look at her. Look at her go with all her colors and her patterns. It barely fits. This is what Jan Brady wore to the winter formal. Ripley is the one with amazing Andrew Scott, the hot priest. Oh, dude. And it's based on like the, what's the called, Ripley.
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Yes. If it had been any longer. They would have had time to like, you know. To be like, is that a nail file?
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It's almost like the adrenaline made them not think it through. And by then he could have picked up one of the guns that they had dropped and have a real gun.
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So he knows it's coming.
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The birds are circling.
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Thank you. That's what we're not. That's the one word that doesn't get thrown around a lot here at My Favorite Murder. It's so beautiful.
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And then they have the best sex anyone has ever had in the history of sex. Can you imagine where it's like... Like he has to be in awe of her. He fucking better be.
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It's so incredible.
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No, she's like, that's the sexiest thing I've ever heard in my life.
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Have two people been more perfect for each other.
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Definitely. It's so fucking good. You won't believe your eyes. It's incredible. So we binged that. And then I have a book recommendation that I'm so in love with and so excited to talk about. It's an audio book. Okay. Philomena Kunk.
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It's good, good.
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People manipulate you into making your own decision really easily sometimes.
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It didn't work the first time.
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Everyone make that money. Yeah. Make that autobiography money. Tell your helicopter lesson story. Tell your story before someone fucking tells it for you. Yeah, you might as well. Yeah, it's called Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered.
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That's the Frenchest quote I've ever fucking heard in my life.
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Wow. That was something else. That was fun. Flirty. French. French.
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So I don't remember how we're ending this now. Do you? Well, we can just end it like that. We could. Do you want to do one of these? Let's do one. So we asked you guys... So you do remember. Your last week. No, it says it at the top of this page. Your last week are like five weeks ago. We asked you instead of what are you even doing right now?
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We asked you what you're excited for and what you want to manifest in 2025. Did we use the word manifest? Probably. Sounds like us. So let's just each do one. You guys sent us a bunch and we fucking love that. Thank you so much. You can keep sending them because maybe we'll keep doing these.
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So the incredible Philomena Kunk played by the incredible comedian Diane Morgan is Philomena Kunk has come out with an audio book called The World According to Kunk. And it's a history of the world. Yes. It is so fucking hilarious that I scared the cats laughing so loud when I was listening to it. Yes. It's just so joyous. I can't recommend it enough.
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And I'm going to tell my sister to join. She's a photographer, professional photographer.
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Oh, is that what it was?
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Okay. Mine is from our email and the title is 2025. She's so cute. It says, hello, today's my birthday and I just listened to you ask what I'm excited for in 2025. According to the ever decreasing life expectancy in women, I am halfway through this life. Wow. And I'm oddly pumped. Usually sad about my age. It hit me today. All the years I've lived, I get to live that same amount.
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And then it says plus some fingers crossed emoji. It's so true. I love it.
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I don't know, but I get it because like I'm 44 and it's like if I live to be like 90, I still have another full lifetime to live.
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Yeah, I am. I am lucky. Turns out. And then it says, with people I am choosing in a place I love with a clear mind and heart. That's the best part. You don't have to go through childhood again. Yes, that's right. You get to be informed this time. Right. So it says, I recently joined a group of 200 plus black American women.
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We get together and chat and share resources, suggest doctors and safe practices. We are calling ourselves the 92% and the support is out of this world. Nice. It's a beautiful place to be and a loud reminder that we haven't met everyone we will love. Oh, nice. How lucky are we to be growing old? Thank you for helping us learn and grow. Hello, 2025. May she do us right. Amen.
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Much love and strength, Kiana.
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That was the energy we're looking for. That was it. What about you? What are you manifesting in 2025, everyone? Send us fucking a message. Yeah.
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We've done enough girl bossing and bad bitching and hustling and scaredy cat stuff, right? Yes.
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Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
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Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
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Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
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Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
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I love the way he does comedy. Yeah, he's fucking hilarious. Also, like, how exciting is it to see fucking Nikki Glaser absolutely fucking killing it? Same with her. She's the exact same person on stage as she is in fucking person. Yes. She's so lovely. I'm so excited.
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Yay for her. Very cool. I don't know. Like, we're coming up on nine years and doing this podcast. No. You're shaking your head. No.
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I mean, you're not wrong. There has been a bus run over feeling to it. And I am a very changed person. And it has been, I did check myself into a mental health facility a couple years back because it was so bus hitting me. Yeah.
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Yeah. So that's been a total change. We're about to like kind of step into a new chapter, one would say. Yes. With this podcast and the network as far as like our new home.
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So we've been independent the past year and it's been...
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Right. Which fucking feels terrible and sucks. So what I really hope for this moment after this year of being independent is that we and I think what's going to happen with this new company and it's the reason we are going to go with them is that we respect them and it seems like they respect us. And I keep reading things about like the podcast industry is changing.
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Look at the numbers then compared to now. But really what's changing is that we're kind of going back to our roots. And what that means is that this podcast network that means so much to us, this podcast itself and our listeners are who we're doing this for. And I'm excited to get back to normalcy a little bit. Okay, so look, here's the point. We are excited for the future.
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Mm-hmm. And then over on everyone's favorite car-based podcast, Do You Need a Ride, comedian Sabrina Jaliz hops in the car to talk to Karen and Chris about life, hope, and ayahuasca, baby.
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And then also it's a new year and there are new ways to die on this podcast. We'll kill you. One of my faves. For example, this week, Aaron and Aaron start a two part series on. what thing that fucking plagues me forever, fucking allergies. Allergies. Like, I never am not without a fucking disgusting tissue. It's so irritating.
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All right, I'm first. Okay. Cintra Trust. Cintra Trust. And sit up straight and tell us a story. Because story time is about to begin. Are you ready to hear a story? Yes, I am. Okay. Well, we're going to start in the town called Leeton Buzzard. What? Guess where it is. Texas. England. Oh. Leeton Buzzard. Like, what is that even? I think it's Leighton, Georgia.
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Hello and welcome loudly to my favorite murder.
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Leighton Buzzard. It's just like how in England some places are like Remington Spa. You know, like spa, what?
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I mean, they're precious. And this town is super picturesque. It's a little town in Bedfordshire, England. What? What? Just picture us, but a huge buzzard is constantly circling overhead. They're known for their buzzards. It's right outside of London, north of London. It's between Oxford and Cambridge, in case you know where either of those two fucking places are.
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I went to both and just commuted back and forth. Oh, when you went to boarding school for the summer?
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At Oxford. Well, then you know that it's got those cute cobbled streets. Everything is made of brick. It's really darling. There's cute pubs, local shops. It's just a small, chill town. And it's actually such a small town that when I looked for local celebrities to tell you about, the only one I recognized was the 1980s pop band Kajagoogoo. Yes. They're from... Leighton Buzzard?
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They're from Leighton Buzzard. They're the ones, they had the 1983 hit single, Too Shy.
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Which is now going to be stuck in your head. Go.
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So they're, but they're from there.
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Anyways, this is not a movie podcast. This is not that movie podcast or any movie podcast. And then this week on That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, Cara and Lisa cover an episode from season five entitled Manic. Hey.
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And Nick Terry has done it again with a brand new episode of MFM Animated. It's called Sleep German, which is inspired by Minisoad 320. Head over to YouTube.com slash Exactly Right Media. Please subscribe while you're there to check it out. And remember, the dream man won't get you if we stick together.
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Well, yeah. I mean, that's great. Come to Instagram. We're a happy family here.
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So this year, we are dedicating the money from the black and white MFM logo pin to World Central Kitchen, Of course, founded in 2010 by Chef Jose Andres, World Central Kitchen is the first to the front lines providing meals in response to humanitarian, climate, and community crises.
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To donate or learn about other ways you can help World Central Kitchen, go to their website, wck.org. We're really excited to support them. It's like, you know, such an incredible cause.
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When you're buying your here's the thing, fuck everyone mug, throw in a black and white pin. Get a pin going. Hey, put it on your leather jacket. Okay, this is one I'm excited to do. It's a big one. And it's really interesting. You know how when we go on tour, we go to a city and on stage, before we tell a story, we would be like, Clearwater, Florida, what are you doing?
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Admonish them because they have so many fucking murders to choose from. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, if we ever go to this place, we're going to admonish them. Because this takes place in Adelaide, Australia. Oh, oh. Is it in Adelaide, Texas? I think so. Yeah. Because Australia can go head to head with the U.S. when it comes to terrifying murdered and disappeared children, unfortunately.
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There's the Mr. Cruel abductions and murder that I covered in episode 124. Of course, the Beaumont children, which I'll mention later. And then there's this one. This is a haunting 50-year-old unsolved case about two children in Australia who were abducted from a sports stadium.
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This is the story of the Adelaide Oval Abductions, which I hadn't heard of, but I think everyone in Australia knows about. I haven't heard of it either.
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Yeah. But there's a lot of suspects. Okay. Okay? And, like, a lot of other cold cases that, like... Link them.
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Okay. I originally found this on the Crime Stoppers South Australia website. The main source I use for the story is episode 163 of the Australian true crime podcast that we all know and love, Casefile. Casefile. First of all, did the Casefile host ever come forward and be like, it's me? Nope. Still anonymous as far as I know. That's so Australian and cool. So cool.
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Like, I don't want all the accolades. And meanwhile, we're like, Put us in the magazine. I've never said those words.
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No, but everyone wants someone new and exciting. We're all bored of each other over there. Okay. So I immediately have to post bikini pics because I don't know. Okay, can I tell you the last thing I posted? What? A slow motion reel of Vince taking a chicken pot pie that he made me on Friday night and upending it on a plate and handing it to me. Oh. With some dirty song playing in the background.
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Times Square has seen us a few times. And that's like not on us, you know.
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It's very serious. Yeah, definitely. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So Adelaide is South Australia's capital. It's known by some to be a beautiful coastal cosmopolitan town with a small town feel.
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And it's also known by other people, including a lot of murderinos who emailed us about this case as the murder capital of Australia or the serial killer capital of Australia. Like lots of dark shit has happened here. Yeah. So here we are. It's August 25th, 1973.
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And we're at a sports stadium called the Adelaide Oval for an Australian football match between the North Adelaide Roosters and the Norwood... You want to guess what they're called? Huckleberries. Huckleberries. No, that's not right, but the Norwood Redlegs would also have been hilarious, but true. Oh. The Redlegs. Yeah.
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So, we're not going to get into it, but Australian football is also known as footy. It looks similar to rugby slash American football. There's just... Who cares?
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Okay, fine. Then the rules are different. It's played on an oval-shaped field similar to a cricket field, which means nothing to me. It's a smallish stadium. It looks like a college football stadium. So, like... Yeah, exactly. And it's the 1970s. So most of the space is standing room only. So spectators arrive early and they don't give up their spots like you would at a parade.
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Like even if you go to the bathroom, you're going to lose your spot. So they get there early and they stick where they're at.
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There's also grandstands on the west side of the stadium where people can sit. And that's where Les and Kathleen Ratcliffe are sitting with their two children, David, who's 13, and Joanne, who is 11, on that August day in 1973. Here we are. The family are huge Red Legs fans, and they come to nearly every game.
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There are a lot of regulars in the crowd, and the Ratclips soon connect with a woman named Rita Huckle, one of their friends who they see often at the games. And that day, Rita has brought her granddaughter along to this game. She's a four-year-old named Kirstie Gordon, and it's the first time she's ever brought her granddaughter to a game.
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So the game begins at 2.10 and even though there's an age gap between Joanne, who's 11, and Kirstie, who's four, they immediately take a liking to each other. Remember when you were like a preteen and a little kid thought you were the coolest?
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And it just made you feel so good and like, you know, like babysitting. Yeah.
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Yeah. I mean, to this day, if a little kid likes me, I feel like special. Yeah. You know?
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So I think it was kind of that sort of thing. So they spend like most of the game playing together. Australian football games are played in four quarters and between the two halves, there's a longer break. And so Joanne, her parents totally trust her. She's a very mature 11 year old.
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And she's been to tons of games at the stadium before, so they let her go back and forth to the bathroom on her own, but only during the beginning of the quarters, not during the halftime when there's the big rush. Like, they have a sense of, you know, their 11-year-old in a crowd, and they're careful.
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So during the first quarter, Kirstie needs to go to the bathroom, and the Ratcliffs and Kirstie's grandma, Rita, agree to let Joanne take her. The bathroom's about 300 feet away from their seats in a concourse area under the grandstand. They go to the bathroom. They come back. It all goes well. No big deal. And they continue to play while their families watch the game.
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Like that's all it is there. We're having fun. With a kind of let's get it on feel to it. Kind of like pop that, you know, everybody pop that. You know, that one like this, which I want to sing so bad. And as I was walking to the office, I was like wanting to sing that song. And I was like, that's actionable. Don't sing that to your co-worker. Even in the parking lot, it's questionable. Totally.
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So then about 3.45 in the third quarter of the game, Kirstie needs to go to the bathroom again. And there's still plenty of time before the break to go between quarters, so the families, you know, let the two girls go. This time, though, after 20 minutes, they're still not back yet.
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Joanne's father, Les, goes down to the concourse to look for the girls, thinking they're probably playing somewhere between the seats in the bathroom, but he doesn't see them. He asks a woman to go in the ladies' room to call for the girls. They're not in there. And about 12,000 people have come to the game that day.
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But also, the stadium always opens the gates during the last quarter, so people from the general public who don't have tickets can enter for free and just watch the end of the game. And because it's a close match, a lot of people show up that day. And the beginning of the fourth quarter sees a huge, like, chaotic influx of people in and around the stadium.
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Like, we went to that football game, soccer game in England. It's chaotic.
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Yeah. Like, being a little kid there, just, yeah. So even though the girls haven't been missing for very long, they're both very responsible and trustworthy. So the adults are already alarmed and springing into action. And this is actually kind of rare for the 1970s, right? Completely. They'd be like in trouble and angry at them or just not even know that they were gone for that long.
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20 minutes and they're worried.
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So that's great. Yeah. So frantic Kathleen, who is 11 year old Joanne's mom, she goes to an office in the stadium and immediately is like, can you make an announcement for the girls to come back to their seat? And the administrator overseeing the match refuses, saying the stadium has a policy against making mid game announcements because it could disrupt the game.
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He recommends she talk to the police and sends her off. Although right back in his office, hanging out with him is a police officer. He doesn't even bother.
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Yeah. Like that's how flippant he was. Go back to your seat. I'm sure I'm sure they'll show up. Yeah. Right there. The Radcliffs and Grandma Rita spend the rest of the game looking for the girls. When the game ends at about 4.45, they return to the office and ask again that an announcement be made. This time, the administrator makes the announcement.
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He says over the PA system, quote, Joanne Radcliffe in Adelaide Oval, come back to your mother and father. End quote. Like no details. Not only is this wording of the announcement super unhelpful, at this point, everyone is leaving the stadium in mass. And so all the noise from that completely drowns out the announcement. There's no emergency to it either. Right.
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Did you ever get an announcement called at the grocery store on you by your mom?
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You weren't her first rodeo. She was like, I know how this goes.
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Yeah, that's right. The family searches the whole stadium and then they call the police. They the police are about 10 minutes after the game ends. But at that point, almost all the spectators leave. and potential witnesses have left.
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Just all the missed opportunities to actually get ahead of this. Yeah. But the police do, thankfully, take it seriously. Immediately, they set up roadblocks in the areas surrounding the stadium. You know, everyone's pretty much left. And they begin an extensive search for the girls. Yeah.
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Meanwhile, Rita, the grandmother of Kirstie, now has to call Kirstie's parents, who are out of town, along with their two-year-old daughter, Catherine, and say, like, your daughter, your four-year-old daughter's missing from me taking her to the game. Like, how... Horrible. Horrible.
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Oh, it's fucking it's two live crew. Yeah.
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So Kirstie's parents, Greg and Christine Gordon, immediately head back to Adelaide, which is about a three-hour drive. All night, searchers comb Adelaide and boats pass on the nearby river torrents with searchlights, and they turn up absolutely nothing. The next morning, the search continues. Police search the riverbank, divers search the river, and the river is even partially drained.
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Meanwhile, as he aids in the search for his daughter, Joanne's father, Les, breaks down and passes out from grief. And no trace of the girls is found. The story becomes national news unless Joanne's father, he's really big and the whole family's like really big about getting the word out, public statements. They're just like devastated, obviously, and like don't ever give up.
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The song is called Pop That Pussy. That's the fucking name of it. So I'm not.
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And the story becomes national news. Descriptions of the girls are widely circulated throughout Australia. Police put out a call for information. And that's when a horrible narrative begins to emerge. So... A 13-year-old boy named Anthony Kilmartin had been working at the stadium on the day the girls were there. He was selling concessions in the crowd.
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At the beginning of the third quarter, he saw what he sure was the girls come down the grandstand steps toward the ground level. Anthony then went into the concourse under the grandstands and saw the girls again on their way to the bathroom. This time, he thinks he saw them being followed by a man. Now, why would he remember this, you know, ordinary moment? It's because of what happens next.
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He sees the man bend down and pick up four-year-old Kirstie. And then Joanne, 11-year-old Joanne, immediately reacts badly to this. He says Joanne starts chasing the man, grabbing at his coat and kicking him in the shins, just fighting him. The man calls Joanne a bitch and tells her to go away. And they scuffle. And while he's still holding Kirstie, the man's glasses get knocked off.
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Yeah. Hey, speaking of rap, have you watched the Martha Stewart documentary? Not yet. I kind of was meh about it, and then I watched it. And then you were not. And then it was, like, very interesting.
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And when he bends down to pick them up, he also grabs Joanne by the arm and pulls her along as well. They all exit through the stadium's southern gate with Joanne still trying to fight this man off. And Anthony, it's 1973. Anthony's 13 years old. He thinks he just saw a father trying to get his daughters to leave when they don't want to.
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And this is one of the things we talk about all the time is like, don't mind your own business. Now we know. Don't mind your business. Go figure out what's going on. If you're wrong, then you apologize and walk away. If you're not, great.
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I know you feel so awkward, like, butting into people's business, especially when there's an angry person in the mix, you know? Not you, people in general. But, like, you'll never regret.
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Yeah. That's so funny. I'm a butt-in person as well. You're not going to be surprised, but Janet, my mom, is a butt-in person.
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But I definitely have made Vince uncomfortable before by being a butt-in person. Sure. That's not how you act. That's not what you do. Right. But you never know.
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When you get told don't get involved, it's like you're already involved. Yeah. So see it out to the end. I mean. Carry pepper spray everywhere you go.
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Can we have best friends necklaces that say confrontation friend on it? You're my best confrontation friend.
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You need to be my wingman for the confrontation. Right. So this kid for the rest of his life, you know, has to live with knowing this. He witnessed. Yeah. He was traumatized by what he witnessed. But he didn't know. Yeah. So he yeah.
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So he believes he had just seen a father whom he describes as a lanky man wearing glasses and a wide brimmed hat arguing with his two daughters who like maybe just didn't want to leave the game early. And he just goes about his day. He forgets about the whole thing until he hears about the girl's disappearance.
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And once this kid Anthony reports this to the police, Joanne's family confirms that this is exactly how their 11-year-old daughter would react. She is known to be protective of other kids. She once hit another kid with a wooden plank because he was bullying her brother.
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The first influencer, they're saying, and it's so true.
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And they're adamant that she wouldn't have left Kirstie behind if something bad was happening to her. You know, it's just your heart goes out. It's horrible and heartbreaking.
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In addition, Kirstie's parents say that their little girl is exceptionally shy and would never willingly go off with some stranger. You know, so it all adds up that this is an abduction. Yeah. So there's also this story, another witness, a man named Ken Wooling, is at the stadium, is the stadium's assistant curator.
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He says at the end of the third quarter at about 4 p.m., he saw two girls he believed to have been Joanne and Kirstie outside the stadium. There's this whole thing about like there were these stray kittens and some kids were trying to coax out the kittens and there's this weird guy around them. The timelines don't totally add up. We think Anthony's story is 100% true.
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This one, if you piece it in time-wise, it makes sense, but only if it happened before what Anthony saw. So it's possible as well. Police put out a composite sketch of this man and, of course, asked that he come forward so he can be eliminated, but nobody does. Police put out a call for tips, and more than 400 people come forward.
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And there's a lot more details in the case file episode about witnesses and possible sightings, but I'm not going to go into all of them. There are some credible tips, including a few people who saw a man with a similar description with two little girls. There's also a ransom call to the family that's believed to be a hoax and is never traced.
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A $5,000 reward is announced for information leading to the recovery of the girls. In today's dollars, that would be worth about... $5,000 Australian dollars in the 70s? Uh-huh.
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28 grand for two missing little girls who have been abducted from a stadium, potentially. The public is a little like, what the fuck? That's really low over this. Right. So that's partly because of what I'm going to tell you next. So there's this brazen daytime kidnapping in a very public place. It's obviously terrifying for the public. Right. Which is why it's partly such a big deal.
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It's like it's not it's just so brazen. Right. You know, but it's also alarming in the fact that it's not unfamiliar because there's a recent case in the area that still looms large in everyone's mind. And people wonder if there's a connection.
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About 10 years earlier, on January 26, 1966, three siblings had disappeared from a town celebration in a public park beach area in Glenelg, Australia, which is just outside of Adelaide, very close. This is the Beaumont children. We never put out an episode about this case, but I'm sure one of us covered it when we were Australia touring.
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Yeah. And it comes up a lot. It's come up recently because there's always new leads. Again, it's a cold case. So this happened about 10 years before the girls were kidnapped from the stadium. So the Beaumont children, it was Jane, who was nine, Arna, who was seven, and Grant Beaumont, who was four. Mm-hmm.
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Hello, and welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's a Georgia Hartster. And that's a Karen Kilgariff. And this is how you make them. Have you seen, I don't know how we even talked about this yet, the fucking Husky who has an Italian accent. Oh my God, nothing has brought me more joy in my life than that guy.
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The children were playing with him and appear to be relaxed and enjoying themselves like maybe they knew him and were seen walking away together from the beach. No big deal. But they were never seen again and their disappearance has never been solved. And people have always believed that these two cases are linked. And Case File covers the Beaumont children in episode 100 of Case File.
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Over the years, multiple men, a disturbing amount of whom have been convicted of other crimes against children in the area and Australia in general, have emerged as possible suspects in this case. And a lot are tied to the Beaumont abductions as well.
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There's a group of men known by the media as the family who are thought to be involved in a pedophile ring during the 70s and 80s who are responsible for the kidnapping and sexual abuse of a number of teenage boys and young men. This is a fucking disturbing case. Case file covers it in episode 166. There's so many gruesome details. I'm clearly not going to get into it.
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That's what the whole thing is about. And it's also like a little disturbing because she's clearly like a little bit of an automaton. What is the word? Robot? Yeah. A little robotic. Sure. A little like... Sociopathy kind of like because you have to be in that business or to get where she is in this world. Yes.
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Only one of those men from the pedophile ring has ever been tried and convicted for these crimes or even their name brought up in the media. This man named Bevan Spencer Von Einem was sentenced in 1984 for the murder of a 15-year-old boy named Richard Kelvin who had been abducted near his home in Adelaide.
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This man is now considered a suspected serial killer and his name comes up in connection with the Adelaide Oval abductions, mostly because of the testimony against him by an anonymous informant. And this anonymous informant was like part of this ring and still gave this information. So it's not just like, I don't know, it seems more credible because of that. Well, right. Yeah. Yeah.
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And this anonymous informant says that Bevan Spencer von Einem once boasted to him that he had taken the children and dumped the bodies in bushland south of Adelaide. These allegations have never been sustained, but this dude is pure fucking evil and it's a very disturbing case. Yeah. In 1999, a man named Arthur Stanley Brown is charged in another awful cold case.
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On the 26th of August, 1970, which is just three years before the abductions in the stadium, sisters Judith, who was seven, and Susan McKay, who was five, disappeared from a suburb of Townsville, Queensland, less than 10 minutes after leaving their home, and were later found murdered two days later.
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This man was not convicted because of a hung jury and was not given a new trial because he was in his 90s by the time he was charged. Remember, it happened in 1970 and he wasn't arrested until 1999. So they considered him too senile to stand trial, although some people think he was faking it. Now, this occurred in 1970, three years before the abductions of Joanne and Kirstie.
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These locations aren't close. However, he bears a resemblance to the descriptions of the man in the wide brim hat. And he's also considered a prime suspect for the Beaumont children disappearance. A witness from that day near the stadium identified him much later as the man, which is, you know, not very reliable. But he's a potential suspect.
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And then Joanne's little sister, Susie Wilkinson, she believes that it was a different third suspect. This is a man named Stanley Arthur Hart, and he's known as a pedophile. He lives in the area. He's a devoted supporter of the North Adelaide Football Club, which is one of the two teams playing Adelaide Oval on the day of the abduction. So it's very likely he was there.
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Seven years before they were taken, he had been charged with six sex offenses against an 11-year-old girl. In 2009, his own grandson gave a written confession saying that he and his grandfather were at Adelaide Oval on the days the girls disappeared. But he was three or four years old on the day of the game at the stadium.
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And when he wrote this confession in 2009, he was in prison for charges for crimes against children. Oh. And so authorities initially dismissed these claims, but private investigators for the Gordon and Ratcliffe families take them very seriously. This man, the grandfather, died in 1999.
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And in the late 2000s, private investigators searched a property in a rural area about two hours north of Adelaide that belonged to the grandfather. following a hand-drawn map that this grandson had provided to them. Like, he was adamant that this was his grandfather. This map leads the investigators to an underground tunnel which contains two steel barrels. They call the police in.
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But it's also super impressive because she's a badass and has like taken some hits and just got back up, you know. She's still growing those tulips seasonally. It's interesting. You should watch it. As a CEO yourself, an entrepreneur, I think there's some parts... And someone heading to jail, for sure. Right, for insider trading.
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The police return to the site. They determine that the barrels had traces of blood in them. Some reports also claim that the investigators found a scrapbook with newspaper clippings about the abduction. as well as children's clothing. It's just all this shit that you're like, test it, test it, test it. It hasn't been tested fully. It doesn't make any sense.
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That's exactly what it is. And then the other thing is that Anthony Kilmartin, the 13-year-old concession worker, he sees a photo of this man, the grandfather, and and the hat he used to wear, which they also find at his house. And he believes it's an exact match of the man he saw at the game that day, which seems a little more credible to me since it seems like it'll be burned into his memory.
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Absolutely. You know what I mean? Yeah. Back in 1974, after the disappearance of the girls, both the Ratcliffs and the Gordons welcome baby girls into their families. So Joanne, her little sister Susie, who they never got to meet, She goes on to be one of the biggest champions for solving this case, and she still is. She continues to push for answers today.
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She's about 50 now, and she is the last living member of Joanne's immediate family. She is determined to see the case solved. The family moved out of Adelaide in the 80s, and Susie says, quote, to the very day we left, Mom would leave the front light on in the hope one day Jo would come home. My niece now leaves her front light on.
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It's just something that's carried on through generations, end quote. And Susie actually runs an organization called Leave a Light On, and they advocate for missing persons and their loved ones. I know. In a recent Women's Weekly article, Susie said that she thinks about her sister's bravery often. And she says, quote, people forget that she was only 11.
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She was given the responsibility of looking after Kirstie and she stuck by that even if it meant sacrificing herself. Oh, God. I know. Little Kirstie, four-year-old Kirstie's parents, they've been generally less public over the years, but they do speak to the press occasionally. Kirstie's mom, Christine, said in 2017, quote, What is closure? Do you need to have a body?
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Do you need to have a funeral? Do you need to bring her home? To us, she is home because she is here with us. End quote. And that is the heartbreaking story of the Adelaide Oval Abductions. I think it could be solved.
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Definitely. There's actually a GoFundMe being run by an investigative journalist to have those barrels tested more thoroughly that you can go check out. And yeah, police haven't thoroughly tested those barrels. It's just wild. Yeah.
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I do think you'll identify with some parts of it.
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Yeah. Sorry for another cold case.
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Definitely. I mean, they're just cold cases are just the stories we tell that haven't gotten their answer yet. It's not that that's it. The end of the story. It's an unsolved mystery. Like it's just still waiting for the last puzzle piece. And so maybe when we tell these stories, people will pay more attention and it can happen.
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That's the important piece. I mean, I wonder why we have such differing opinions about them. Like, I won't even start a puzzle because I don't care about finishing it. You have to finish a puzzle.
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I'd rather think about the puzzle, puzzle over the puzzle, and then watch TV. I don't care.
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That's why I want to tell the cold case stories. It's because I'm like, Karen, my friend, you're interested in this too. Like, let's... Put these pieces together. Let's like, you know, make our eyes all soft and see where the last piece goes. We could do this.
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I don't know.
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Something I should know.
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Are you watching that show, that new show with Betty Gilpin? I did watch it. But so the show is American Primeval.
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No, no, you covered that on an episode. Right. I remember it.
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Not live, yeah.
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It's never good when they name it after children.
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That's not fair.
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We need that access to information on all platforms and from all places so that we can then make a decision for ourselves. Yes. And you're worried about that not being available to everyone.
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No, it feels like the place is just going to melt around them. Yeah, yeah.
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I never thought about that. Like the snow, you can inhale it. Yeah. I never thought about that.
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Right. And that was Jesus.
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And she, like, wakes up still alive.
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Yeah. Dark. Well, we're here waiting for you on Instagram with open arms and a chicken pot pie.
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Oh, my God.
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I don't get a lot of bikini content. That's not what I follow. And that's not what's offered to me.
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No, everything I post is like chicken pot pie adjacent. It's not. It's not. Or like dog and cat stuff. Okay. It's not like that. Okay. It's like, you know, when you're in fifth grade and you think the sixth graders are super cool. And then like you become an adult and meet one of those sixth graders. You're like, that person was, I don't know where this is going. Oh. But we're the fifth.
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Are they going to shut that one down, too?
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Or who are they going to put in charge of that one, you suppose?
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Fucking Cruella de Vil. Can we please have a government? Could competency be the name of the game?
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You're asking too many.
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Do you want to just talk about fifth grade? Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. I don't know.
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Got it, girl.
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Do you know what I mean? You're like, wow, that person is so much cooler than me. And then like with TikTok and then you meet them later in life. You're like, why did I put that person on a pedestal? Everything was great here in fifth grade. Yeah. I don't.
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Yes. Thank you for your service.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Tell your sister-in-law and your fucking mom that we appreciate you here.
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Yeah. Thank you for the ceramics. We love it. Forever. Thank you for listening and being a part of this craziness. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
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Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
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Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
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Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
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Yeah, it made me feel inadequate. Whereas with Instagram, I was like, I can talk to the phone in front of my mirror and it's fine. I don't need filters. Right. I mean, I need filters, but I don't use filters.
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They're borderline. They're like, it's parrots, which I watch so many videos of them talking to. They literally are talking. And huskies. If you haven't seen it, just Google Italian husky.
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uh should we do some ceramics oh my god yes your face is lit up yes so last week because we asked you guys for ceramics for our ninth anniversary anniversary gift yeah we we showcased some on the podcast it was a huge hit we have so many more we're gonna do a video hopefully soon but in the meantime we wanted to just like do a couple more really quickly because apparently you guys freaking loved it yeah everyone's just thrilled so
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And we bought a fucking electric Lazy Susan. That can't go to waste.
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Yeah. Go to the exactly right YouTube page. And check it out. Okay, I'll read it to you while you do it. Yeah, this is from an artist named Cassandra. Her IG handle, her Instagram handle is Westerwald Pottery, W-E-S-T-E-R-W-A-L-D. She and her husband.
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Forget it. She and her husband run Westworld Pottery, which her dad started in 1975. Whoa. Second generation pottery. I know. Her dad was a ceramics professor and pottery expert. This is going to be fucking good. And he passed away in 2022 after a battle with COVID. And she says, quote, I hope you enjoy the anniversary crock and the mugs.
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I know my dad would be getting an absolute kick out of my favorite murder being stamped onto one of his pots.
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That is fucking ridiculous. This is the real deal. This stoneware is hand-thrown, decorated, and glazed at 2,250 degrees Fahrenheit. Glaze is lead-free, microwave, and dishwasher safe. Oh, so it's these it's a beautiful like crock, like a jug kind of a thing with this gorgeous like what would you call that? It's very vintage. This floral design. Yes. Beautiful blue floral design.
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This is the most, this is my new mug.
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Okay. It's covered up with a cloth, with a silk cloth, and we're going to rip it off. It's a little phallic shaped under that claw.
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Oh, no. It's beautiful. Wait, is it a? Oh, my God. It's a microphone pot bong pipe. Look. Oh, my God.
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That's so clever. That is brilliant. It's a microphone and you can smoke pot out of it after you record the podcast.
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Do you want to read this one? Okay, I'll read this one. Okay. This is from an artist named Chris Shima. Instagram handle Shima, S-H-I-M-A, Shima Ceramics. Chris says, my company consists of myself and my assistant, Jareden, and we almost exclusively listen to MFM in the studio. Ooh. And then it's, then let's do it.
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It says, I make sculptural mugs by hand, meaning I sculpt an original by hand, make a plaster mold of it, and then cast slip mugs from it. Wow. I hadn't looked up yet. As an homage to MFM, I made these stay out of the forest skull mugs. Happy ninth anniversary. These gorgeous skulls.
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Karen, I think... All the big meetings you take from now on, you need to be casually sipping.
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Like all the people that we fucking dealt with that you need to talk to out of a skull mug.
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That's beautiful. Have you seen Martha Stewart's series? You could. Chris Shima, Shima Ceramics. Incredible work.
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Stay out of the forest.
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Because we said please.
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I can't wait to do an actual... like a live stream that we were going to do, and show the rest of them. Oh, yeah. There's still time to send yours in, you guys, if you're like, shit, I didn't finish in time.
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It's like a hometown. It can be fucking anything you want at this point. It can. You decide. You choose. Yeah. Okay. No rules. Beautiful. Thank you, Alejandra. Alejandra. Amazing job. All right.
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Yeah. I want to know about that because, like, when I was younger, I was like, I have a manic pixie dream girl. And now that I'm older, I'm like... Take your medication.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's a terrible, it's a terrible trope.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Or like these character, these female characters that are made to service the males. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. So here's what's going on with the scene. The driver's side mirror on the car is bent backwards. Jodi's belongings are scattered on the ground. Like there's a pair of red pumps that have essentially fallen off her feet, a pair of earrings, a can of hairspray and her hair dryer. I remember she probably had her like go bag with her to get ready at work.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So she was probably on her way to her car to go to work to finish getting ready. And something happened outside of her car. On the ground, investigators also find the key to Jodi's car. It appears to be slightly bent. And on the ground near the car, investigators find what looks like drag marks, like these little indentations that look like someone's being dragged.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And investigators also find one partial handprint on the outside of the car. And I mean, so there's a lot of scenes that you hear about that don't give any clues as to what happened, which really delays someone getting searched for. And I think that all this evidence there is almost this lucky thing because they know immediately something's wrong.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Like I've been reading about JC Dugard's abduction and it's just gone without a trace, nothing left behind. And that's just almost worse because you have nothing to go on. Yeah. But here you have evidence to go on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. It had to be between this time and this time. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think everyone who's obsessed with this case is like, for me personally, it's like the answer is somewhere in here, in this little area and window of time. Yeah. So the apartment complex where she lives, you know where the parking lot is, is a group of two-story, mid-century type buildings.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Three neighbors from the complex said that they heard a scream at about 4.30 a.m. Of course, no one called the police. One witness reports that they specifically heard a woman scream, leave me alone. Do you like, do you have what I have where it's like, I thought I heard one gunshot, but I don't know. And so you don't call the police. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And it's like, I don't, it doesn't sound, I mean, this is LA. So some people are like, what are you fucking talking about? Every once in a while you hear a gunshot in LA.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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In your neighborhood. For sure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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If I heard a woman scream in the middle of the night, though, I think then I would.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. Like that hometown we read recently where the dad like caught her and ran inside and fucking caught. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that Vince and I, if we were fucking woken up at four in the morning by a woman screaming, would fucking take care of shit and call the police. Take some action. Take some action and also call the police. Yeah. Yeah. You know, don't mind your own business.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That's like rule number one.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So, curiously, another witness who lives across the hall from Jodi says she heard a commotion outside Jodi's apartment the night before. She says she heard a man banging on Jodi's door saying, open the door. I know you're in there. But... That said, this person tells this story like weeks or months later, not immediately after Jodi's disappearance.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So it's hard to like really pin down exactly what happened. So while police are still at Jodi's building, a friend of Jodi's comes over and says that he believes he was the last person to have seen her. This man's name is John. I'm not going to say his last name, but it's, you know, all over the internet. And he's older than Jodi. He's 49, so like 20 years older than her.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But the two really do seem to be close friends. He had recently thrown a surprise party for her 27th birthday. And the night before she disappeared, he says she had gone to his house to watch a home video from that party. There's actually a problem, though, with this sequence of events. And here's another camp that believes that this guy fucking totally did it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So the day before Jodi disappeared, she had played in a charity golf tournament. That tournament was followed by dinner at the country club. And Jodi had been at that dinner. Multiple people report that she had left dinner at 8 p.m. But John maintains that she came over after the dinner to watch the video. The video is about 15 minutes long.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But investigators know that Jodi made a long distance phone call from her apartment at 8.24 p.m. So this timeline doesn't add up, right? Jodi wouldn't have had time to get to John's from the dinner, watch the video, and then drive home in time to place the call. So it's just this weird discrepancy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That was his story that she came over. Yeah. And that is the actual timeline. So it's like, I don't know if they confronted him or not, but they're like, you know, this doesn't add up, which to me is like super suspicious. Right. But why would he offer that info if it wasn't true? That's the question. Because he's trying to hide something. Right. But John makes himself available to the police.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Okay, I'll get on that. We're recording this before the new year, so I can get on that and do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He's generally very cooperative and other friends of theirs confirm that they were just friends. There was nothing weird going on. But of course, the relationship raises eyebrows. And John goes on multiple local news segments in the wake of Jodi's disappearance, you know, talking about her saying something. He had nothing to do with it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He tells police and local news media that he had been asleep when Jodi was abducted, which is understandable. It's four in the morning. And a friend of his says that she went on a walk with him that morning from 630 to 830 a.m. Is it weird that I'm like, well, I could see them being friends if they were both in AA because that's that's the only time you meet like older people, I feel like. AA.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Honestly, like, yeah, you've been in the program for a long time. Like, let's hang out. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. In another TV interview, John mentions that he named his boat after Jodi. Hmm. It's unclear whether he did this before or after her disappearance. It's not after. It's not after.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But someone who would kill someone and doesn't understand how things look would think that it's like a way to be like, see, I'm honoring her memory. Like, look how normal this is. Yeah. I don't think they'd understand how, and I agree, it's fucking creepy. I feel like either way, it's creepy. What are you doing?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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We're tricking you. We're here to trick you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He's, of course, treated as a person of interest for years. He's taken two polygraphs and police will not discuss whether or not he passed. He says that he did. And Jodi actually kept a journal and she mentions him in it often. And she writes about having fun with him on a recent water skiing trip and has nothing negative to say about him. But I don't fucking tell the truth in my journal. Do you?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I don't have a fucking journal. I have a once in a while journal when I feel like it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Exactly. That's why I don't fucking sell them anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I'll write like thoughts that I have at the moment, but I won't write like details and secrets, you know?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Not recording stuff that happened. Just getting whatever thought is in my head out, but no details. Got it. So if you read it, it might not make any sense to you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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For me, and I'm betting for you too, growing up with a sibling means that you don't write jack shit in a fucking diary or they're going to read it and make fun of you and hold it over your head for the rest of your life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Did she start reading?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Well, I've had a fucking energy drink that hasn't hit me yet. So you better chug that thing. Is it a Celsius? No, no. It's just like one of those shots. Please put your finger up like this when it hits. Not the like good kind of like medicinal fuck you up takes years off your life kind. And I love those. It's like one of the like juice juices with caffeine. Oh, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Okay, we're back in. So they call the state troopers. The police call the state troopers in to come help the Mason City Police to look for Jodi, which we always like. They bring in dogs and search a nearby river. There's also like park grounds across the street from her apartment building. It seems like maybe campers hang out there. Maybe also people party there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And also like if she has a stalker, it's a good vantage point to like watch from. You know what I mean? Yeah. No sign of Jodi is found, though, in that park area. And inside Jodi's apartment, police noticed two things. There are two wine glasses by the sink, and the toilet seat is up in Jodi's bathroom, which would suggest a male guest would have been over. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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This leads, of course, people to wonder if a man had been in her apartment the night before she disappeared. I've also read somewhere that there were beer bottles by the dumpster outside as if someone was hanging out waiting around, but I can't find anything further on that. And no further evidence is found.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And it sounds like the glasses aren't tested for DNA, or if they are, there's no unaccounted for male DNA. It's an open case, so they haven't really said, but you'd think that they would let us know if that was the case. So people point out that Jodi is a local celebrity. And so that might've been a factor in her disappearance. It is a small town.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And I think the newscaster is like a big deal there, right? Yeah. It would be a huge deal. Yeah. There's no fucking online influencers. There's no online. It's like, this is, these are the celebrities.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. So Mason City is very small in other parts of the country. We would call it a town. It's not, you know, a city. And Jodi lived life like a regular person, even though people started their mornings with her every single day. So it's not unheard of for TV news personalities to have stalkers. In fact, obviously it's very common.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And Jodi was a young woman who lived by herself in a small apartment complex without any kind of special security. She was listed in the phone book. And so it probably wouldn't be hard for someone to figure out where she lived. No security. You go to the news station, you wait till she comes out, you follow her home. I mean, yeah, kind of terrifying. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So the current lead investigator on the case says that the stalker angle doesn't add up for him. And remember, Jodi was late for work the day she disappeared. So on a normal day, she would have walked out the door at three in the morning. So a stalker waiting for her would have had to stay outside her apartment building for a whole extra hour to grab her on the day she disappeared.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And the investigator doesn't think that that's likely. And I hate to contradict him, but... Yeah, he's wrong. If he knew she had to be at work...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's like today's the day I'm going to do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then the other thing people think about is that if she did have someone over the night before and she was being stalked, that might've upset the stalker enough to wait for her and attack her. Yeah, that makes sense. So that kind of is an angle I really think is strong. So nine months before she went missing in October of 1994, Jodi made a police report saying that she had been out jogging.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She was being followed by someone driving a white truck. And the night before Jodi disappeared, a neighbor reported seeing an unfamiliar white van in her building's parking lot. Don't like that. Some people also say that she was going to change her phone number because she was getting nasty calls from someone. And there's one other angle that people always wonder about.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I mean, this is kind of loose for me, but Jodi had been covering the growing issue of drug use in the Midwest. Some people think that she was possibly killed by people who didn't want her to keep reporting on it. But I mean, she was not an investigative journalist. I can't imagine she was like breaking any rules.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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crazy news that like gangs were worried about her sharing you know what i mean it's all after the fact kind of stuff that already happened yeah right so that that seems unlikely to me so two years after jody disappears in 1997 a serial rapist is arrested and ultimately convicted and this man lived in mason city about a block or two away from the tv studio where jody worked oh
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, police look into him in connection with Jody based on an account from a jailhouse informant, but they ultimately rule him out, which I'm like, based on what? Because it must've been, it had to be like, he was out of town that day or something to rule him out, you know? Right. It's pretty crazy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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There's another man from nearby Minnesota who has a record of sexual assaults going back to the 1970s. He was known to spend time in Mason City. He owned a white van, not unlike the one that the witness had seen in Jody's apartment building's parking lot. And this man's ex-wife actually says that he had a special interest in Jody. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And two witnesses who have had conversations with this man say that he bragged to them about being involved in her disappearance. So I just want to know how close they were looked at. And like, can we do it again, please? There are private investigators. There's, you know, regular investigators on this. You'd have to think that they looked as much as they could into these people.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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You know that they looked into that person. Right. Right. And that does happen all the time. Yeah. And it's, and they had nothing to do with it. Right. In 2004, police served this guy with a search warrant for his finger and palm prints. And the officer who executed this warrant says that this man became irate when presented with the search warrant, but he had to comply. He was never charged.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Police say they've cleared him. In June of 2001, Jodi's family makes the awful decision to declare her legally dead. But no one has given up on finding out what happened to her. In 2003, a group of journalists form a website called findjodi.com. And this group is still extremely active. So for journalists, this case hits home.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Because it's a big community made up of some people who knew Jodi personally, but also other journalists who didn't know her. And this just hit them. It seems so... Yeah. It's one of their own. One of their own. Yeah. Yeah. So this is another crazy little like breadcrumb to throw in there. In early June 2008...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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84 photocopied pages of Jodi's personal journal were anonymously mailed to a local newspaper. The original journal had been in the possession of the former Mason City police chief. So who sent this? Well, it turns out the sender was identified as the wife of the former Mason City police chief.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He had taken, you know, copies of this home or the journal. I don't know which. And she sent them maybe in a bid to like try to fucking get this solved. You know, it's just weird. It's just a weird violation. Maybe she was hoping that someone would glean some information off of it. You know, it's been it had been 13 years. So is there anything in it that like helps people or it furthers anything?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It doesn't seem like it. No. I mean, maybe. Yeah. Who knows? It is that thing where like they keep stuff secret so that only the killer knows, but eventually if there's no leads at all, you've gotta put some information out there to try to get some leads. So in 2017, John, the older friend guy who named his boat after Jodi is subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury for a second time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Don't do that, everyone. Listen, we're from the 90s. We're allowed to crush pills up and snort them. We've done that. We did it for you. It burns. Don't do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Like they're on this guy. He gives finger and palm prints and a DNA sample. The results of that grand jury proceeding is sealed, but I feel like it happened in 2017. If they had anything on him, he would have been indicted by now, right? Yeah, it seems like it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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John recently gave a statement saying he has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and he has reiterated that he had nothing to do with Jodi's disappearance.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I think he showed up that day when they were searching, when they like went to the crime scene. He kind of inserted himself, you know, which we always in true crime. That's a red flag. But he does. He did think he was the last person to see her the night before.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. Where he's driving by and it's his friend's apartment building and something's going on in there. Yeah. Right. So it could be totally innocent. That's why I'm not saying his last name because who the fuck knows. Right. Right. And like, if we find out what happened in this whole time, this guy's been hounded and had nothing to do with it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's just like, this sudden violent act to me, it either seems like a stalker or a crime of opportunity. Like someone, some nefarious person was there maybe breaking into cars or like peeping Tom. And at 4 a.m. she happens to come out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Like, I know you, I know I've seen you leave me alone because you won't leave me alone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Tips still come in all the time on this case. Most recently, just this past October that we just had, investigators got an anonymous tip about possible human remains on a farm in Winstead, Minnesota. And it was known that like it was about Jodi. So people were like excited that something was finally going to happen in this case. It turns out that the bones were just farm animal remains.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But, you know, it did once again stir up interest in the case. The Find Jodi group still maintains billboards around Mason City asking for people to come forward with tips about this case. They get tips regularly and they run down all of them hoping to finally solve this almost 30 year mystery. God. I know. Jodi's sister, Joanne, says, quote, I don't like the word closure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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You're not going to close something. We're always going to think about Jodi. We're always going to miss her, end quote. And that is the story of the disappearance of Jodi, who's in truth. That is so crazy. That's just one of the ones that like holds space in my mind at all times, you know? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Shoes, the shoes left behind. Bent key. I know. I know. you know, whenever there's a crime in the immediate area or even larger, it's like, does this match? It kind of reminds me of the Springfield three who just disappeared out of nowhere as well. It's just so like, did you do them? I did that one. Well, Andrew just told me episode 95. Good to know. But that was 200 years ago.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So that was in 1999 that I did that. It's 2025 now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Because the investigators haven't been able to find anything. So like, why not have more people put their eyes on it? 30 years later, it's like.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, like her phone records. Was there someone calling her and saying weird things? Like, it sucks that like, you know, we have GPS tracking now, which is so great. But back then, there's just like nothing to go on. Wow. That's my story. We'll go back to two stories very soon.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. And it does fucking happen. It happens all the time. It does.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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No lights. Something happened.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. Yeah. Those cases just give me the chills. And I think there's probably so many missing person cases that can be attributed to that. And there are like a lot more companies and people now who are taking that seriously. You know, the town doesn't have the money to use that equipment on the lakes, but these individuals are. And I think that's amazing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Totally. Should we go back to, what are we doing now? Fucking hoorays. Do we do, what are you even doing right now? Should we do a new one for 2025? Yes, we should start a new one. What's your, what does nine mean again?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So what should we have people tell us? Like, what are you excited about this year, maybe? What's your power number? Tell us what your power number is and then you have to get a tattoo of it. Hashtag four. Hashtag 22. Let's do what are you excited? What are you even excited about this year? What are you even excited about in 2025? That can be a new question.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Why don't we answer it since we obviously don't have any emails from it yet.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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We truly can't.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And you can manifest something too. Make something up that like, that's going to be the year that I get another dog or whatever.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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What's yours going to be?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Let's see. In 2025, I'm going to become proficient in gardening.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to like read Gardening for Dummies. I'm going to not stop watering plants. Okay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I'm excited for that. Yeah. I'm going to do that this year. I'm going to be a responsible adult who doesn't kill plants. That's good. And who cultivates a beautiful garden that I'm proud of. Great. What are you even going to do in 2025? Let us know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. Yeah. No. No. You refuse? I will not. No. It's my brand. I made it. You didn't know that I started a lentil company.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Allie Elkin.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That's correct.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yep. All things vegan. Is it working yet? Am I awake? It's weird to go from nap to energy drink to podcasting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Okay. Okay. You'll know. It'll be me. It'll be like the real me. There she is. There she is. There's the reason she needs. social breaks because she just gives it all. Into that microphone. So we're still on break this episode, which means only one story today, but I'll make it powerful. I promise.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I'm kind of like the epitome of the number nine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I'm the nine. It's me. So we hope everyone had a good holiday and a good New Year, New Year's Eve.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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All that spaghetti I ate for dinner. It's gone. The girls told me to eat the spaghetti and that's gone. They made me the lentil spaghetti and now it's back. Heartstruck brand lentil spaghetti sure is, sure comes up gross.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I would not be eating this if I was you. Seriously?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Some of the desserts are like fucking incredible. You'd never know. Yeah. You could never tell the difference. I'd only accidentally eat it or buy it. I wouldn't do it on purpose. You wouldn't seek it out? No. Okay. Okay. We have a couple Exactly Right Media highlights. This is our podcast network, Exactly Right Media. And here's some highlights.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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There is a lot of action. And if you have a moment, please go follow us on social media. Our handle is at exactly right on all platforms. And you can get updates on all of our podcasts, including I Said No Gifts and Ghosted by Roz Hernandez.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. Next time you're like in a waiting room and you're like, I don't know, I'm so sick of Instagram or whatever. Just go to your podcast app and give that little heart a tap on your favorite podcast because it really does make a difference.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I guess rate reviewing and subscribing is kind of like our like semi-annual report or what's it called when you get like. That's right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yes. Think of it as a performance review. And like, it doesn't really matter, but also it does matter. They can use it to fire you in the future if it's not good. So like we need a positive performance review in the form of rate review and subscribe.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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That's right. With a fist raised. Rate, review, and subscribe.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
How happy about that are you?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
I know. Isn't it weird when you're like, I got to record today.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
You've made a podcast. Five stars. It's a great hobby, if you can get it. So, okay. So I am doing a classic cold case. You know, that's my obsession. Your passion. And this one specifically is a cold case that many people are obsessed with. And it's still being actively investigated. Up until recently, there was even a little break. And this is one of Iowa's biggest unsolved mysteries.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
This is the story about a young TV news anchor who disappeared in 1995. This is the story of Jodi, who's in truth. You know what I'm talking about? No, I've never heard this. You'll know when I start to tell you because it's like one of those ones that are like... how hasn't this not been solved, but also how is there such a small amount of evidence?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
And so everyone's able to like put their own theories on it. There's groups of people who have certain theories. There's like people fighting each other about whose theory is right. So I have mine. I want to hear yours at the end of this. I'll fight everybody.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
And so I'm ready for that. So the main source I used for the story is an episode of 2020 called Gone at Dawn. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. And if you've watched any of these true crime shows, you've seen this case probably. Okay. So this is the weird part of the story. It's four in the morning on June 27, 1995. We're in Mason City, Iowa.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
Mason City is a small city of about 29,000 people. It's up by Iowa's northern border with Minnesota, about halfway between Minneapolis and Des Moines. So it's like a smaller town outside of the big cities.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
You think I wrote this? This is fucking Allie. This is fucking my researcher, Allie Elkin, giving me details. I didn't fucking know that. I went on a map and I was like, wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
Perfect. So here we are for most people in Mason city. It's the middle of the night. It's 4am. Like who is at that early, but for 27 year old Jody, who's in truth, it's time to wake up and get ready for work. because she is an anchor for the morning show on the local TV network, KIMT TV. She's a newscaster.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
And she's supposed to be getting into the office at this point to prepare for the show, do her hair and makeup, get ready to go on at 6 a.m. So, ouch, oh my God, who chooses that life? I would just be fired immediately. So difficult.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
So that you can get your full night's sleep. Sure. There's no insomnia. You're not allowed to have insomnia, which causes my worst insomnia when I can't, I'm not allowed to have insomnia, you know? Yeah. The pressure's on. Yeah. Like go to sleep right now. Yeah. You have to be very disciplined, like reliable, obviously person.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
But then, see, this story reminds me that it's still nighttime and the creeps are still out. Like, I guess this time of night is a really, is like when people break into cars a lot. Like there's still nefarious shit going on and you think, well, it's my morning, so everything's fine, but it's like still dark out and it's deceiving, you know? Yeah, middle of the night in a lot of ways.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
Like, I don't think you're as alert because it's your morning, but it's really dark out still. So Jodi's originally from Long Prairie, Minnesota. She's been working as an anchor at the TV network for two years, though she's only lived in Mason City for a relatively short time. Jodi has lots of friends. She's bubbly. She's social.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
She's outgoing, as I think you kind of have to be to be a female newscaster, it seems like. Yeah, I think that would be part of your makeup. Yeah, it's like you and the head of the sales team, like you guys are all like... Yeah. To have this personality that I've always been like, how do you do that? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
I made cupcakes. When did you fucking make cupcakes? I know. She's pretty much exactly what you'd imagine a young TV news anchor to be. She's got this like kind of blonde bob. She looks to me like a cross between Belinda Carlyle because she's also got the like 90s, you know, kind of big teased bob cut. She looks a little bit like Britney Spears as well. So cute dimples, like really beautiful.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
Exactly what you'd think of. And so the problem right now at 4 a.m. is that Jodi isn't at work yet as she should be. So the show's producer, a woman named Amy Coons, calls Jodi at her apartment. The two women both have to be at the studio well before fucking crack of dawn. So they have an agreement to call each other by 4 a.m.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
if one of them isn't at work to kind of watch each other's back and make sure no one's overslept. Nice. So here's where our story differs from every other story we tell that begins this way. Jodi actually picks up the phone. Oh. And Amy's call has woken her up when she's supposed to be at work. So Jodi asks what time it is. Amy tells her and Jodi, you know, scrambles.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
She says, I'll be right there and hangs up. And it should take Jodi about 10 minutes to get to the studio. She has like a bag that she brings. She'll do her hair and makeup while she prepares for the show. So she's running late, but she still has time to scramble and get there. But at 4.30, Jodi still isn't at work. Amy calls again, and this time she gets Jodi's answering machine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
And at 5 a.m., Amy calls one more time, still gets no answer. And at this point, Amy is scrambling to put together a show without Jodi, but it's not on her mind that something is wrong. She just figures she fell back to sleep. She had woken her up the first time. Amy winds up going on for Jodi when the morning show starts at 6 a.m., and when the news director gets into the office at 7 a.m.,
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
It's 2025. That's your daughter. That's Karen Kilgariff. It's 2025. It's 2025. Is that a good number?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
And the staff tells him Jodi never showed up. He immediately calls the police and asks to go check on her. So when the police get to Jodi's apartment, they first check inside. Nothing seems amiss. But when they go back outside to look at her car, which is a red Mazda Miata, which is so cute for a young working woman to have, you know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
It's still in its parking spot, but there are signs of a struggle. And there are some photos from this. And it's just like... chilling.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
461 - Heed This Advice
I've seen some shit. It's Totally. And like, even if she had like fallen back to sleep when Amy called her by 7am, she'd probably have been awake by then and freaking out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Coming to ABC and Hulu. Amanda Riley was a mother, wife, speaker at her church.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
no choice you will not stop filling up our email box with these stories that we love that we love okay the subject line of this one is marshmallow explosion great and then it just says sort of hometown and it starts salutations etc so this is being written by a spider named charlotte ready
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Don't you think they're in there trying to pick off the lonely people or the people who are having a bad Christmas somehow?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Extra cynical, in my opinion.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I love those people. You mean factually provable, but you're still going to go ahead and deny it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I'm the front office manager and I had a very difficult childhood with very critical parents. And so at this point, one more mistake would feel like it would break me in two. Therefore, that number is correct that you see that is not correct on paper. Oh, God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
It's literally the new post-truth world we live in now where people are just like, that didn't happen. And you're just like, well, okay, I guess it's whatever you say. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Yeah. It's a real solve. Sometimes the solve is not in fighting, but in agreeing. It's like, fine. Fine. I work for your doctor's office and I'm the worst employee of all time. The subject line of this email is Albert Einstein was my third man. Hmm. Hello, long-time listener, long-time emailer, just waiting for my big break. Hey. It's happening.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
You all recently did an episode about third-man syndrome, something I'd never heard of but definitely experienced in my youth. And then it says in parentheses, a long time ago. Sigh. Oh, God. Which is not a lot. Ugh. My God. Did you ever take chemistry? Fuck no. Dude, I fucking attempted chemistry.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Because I had this idea of myself of like, I should be like more of an honor student in junior year. I tried to take chemistry and literally it took me like three weeks. And I like, I think the first semester I got an F and then I was just like, okay, I'm dropping this class. I never been qualified to be able to sign up for it. So no.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Just listen to the recent-ish episode about the Sun Valley Mall disaster, and it jogged a memory of what I guess can be called my non-murder hometown, also from the 80s. I kind of love that idea. Yeah. Do you have a story of some crazy shit that happened in your hometown?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Above her bed, she had a huge poster of Albert Einstein sticking his tongue out. You know the one. After a long night of underage drinking, I passed out in her bed and had the most vivid dream of my life. I was sitting in a classroom as Albert Einstein stood at a chalkboard repeating the phrase, the answer is always neutral, in a thick German accent.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I attributed the dream to seeing her poster as I fell into a deep, drunk sleep. Later that day, me, my sister, and her boyfriend began the 90-mile drive back to my hometown. She drove. He rode shotgun. I sat quietly in the back, fighting the urge to puke. About halfway through our drive on a busy highway, my sister's face and body began to contort. She was having a grand mal seizure. Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
My fucking God. He frantically grabbed the gear shift and put the car in neutral, allowing us to gradually slow down and drift to the shoulder before pulling the emergency brake. Oh, my fucking God. Incredible. I waited a long time to tell her about my dream as this experience was incredibly traumatic for her. Yes, yes, it is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
She struggled with epilepsy for most of her young life, but has now been seizure-free for 10 years. Yay. She completed her degree and now works as a chemist in the top of her field. Yay, women in STEM. I can't help but think that good old Albert was looking out for a fellow scientist like some kind of nerd guardian angel. Oh, I love it. Stay sexy and skip the boons, Emily.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I mean, it feels like all of those, like, what's just an incredible, unbelievable story that happened to you? Yeah, like a crazy coincidence. It's like there's a Reddit thread of like, what's something that happened to you that no one would believe?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Don't let children sell you stuff as a favor to the administration. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
You don't have to have even witnessed it. You can just say, this is the crazy thing that happened in my hometown.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
We admire you too for your accomplishments, your child-rearing range, and a third thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Yes. There's a lot of adults writing in to go, hey, when I was a kid, listen, this fucked up stupid thing that an adult did where it's like, great. Good. Yes. Yes. The children must know. Yeah. All right. We've done it. All right. Send us your stories, guys. Yes. Thank you for all your wonderful and delightful stories. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
From the number one smash hit podcast. It was only a matter of time until Amanda's whole world came tumbling down.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I went for it. Okay. There are disagreements over exactly how the fire that led to the explosion started, as well as what exactly caused the explosions themselves, but it seems to have been some combination of a natural gas leak, spark welding, and a highly volatile rocket fuel component stored at the site. Let's get that rocket fuel separately. in that separate area. In the desert.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
The explosions also triggered an explosion at the next door marshmallow factory, which given I was five years old when this took place is pretty much the only thing I remember. Yeah. I texted my mom, Nancy, about the disaster. And since she didn't have a squishy child's brain when we lived in Vegas in 85, she had a bit more to say. The rocket factory was in Henderson in a neighborhood.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
No one knew it was there until it exploded.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Just a real low key, like I said, David's bridles on the outside, but inside they're mattress firm. Yeah. That's unfair. And then it says right next to it was a marshmallow factory. We went up and looked at it the day after and there were puffs of marshmallow all over the cacti and men in white suits looking for radiation. That smelled so good. Smelled so good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
But Nancy's pulling her child right up to the curb being like, let's get in here and see marshmallows and radiation. Stop. Smell the radiation. When it happened, you were with your father at the post office, and the two of you felt the explosion, and the post office window waved back and forth. Whoa. I love this. Your mom reminding you of what happened. I was teaching.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
The force of the explosion knocked plants off the top of the lockers in my classroom, and it felt like I had been kicked in the back.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Crazy. I was the one who was responsible for going outside and making sure all the kids got in because we knew something was coming our way, but we didn't know how bad it was going to be. As teachers, we were making preparations for keeping the children overnight until we got word that it wasn't anything lethal and the buses would be coming for the children.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Not only nothing lethal, what's coming is the children's greatest dream. Exploding marshmallow. A 10-foot wave of marshmallow fluff.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
But just a little, it's kind of just a bit of spice. Yeah. Seasoning. So yeah. Stay sexy and don't store volatile chemicals next to marshmallow factories, Jen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Secretly. I can't. And then you're like, we had rocket fuel welding sparks and we had five-year-olds lighting matches. That was in one room. Right. And then over here, it's like, please.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
We're rocket fuel disruptors.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Did you have AIM or like, did you have this service? I had AIM, yeah. Could they know who you were or how old you were or anything like that? I didn't have any of this. I was like, I was drunk in a gutter at this point in my life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Enough info that I have a stomach ache right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
The predator had his eyes all the way open. It wasn't like, oh, she catfished me. I thought she was 25. Right. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Chloe, I don't know if the word enjoyed would be the one I would use for having heard that story because it was a bit of a nail biter. But God bless your dad and your very adult 11-year-old brain that's like, okay, I need to let people know. Like really a perfect 11-year-old for the early 80s. Totally. The subject line of this email is my childhood balloon hobby.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
It says, hello to the beautiful team of MFM and Exactly Right. I love everything you do. You guys have been a huge part of my weekly routine since I was 16 years old. Aww. And then in parentheses it says, I was the teenager you guys were yelling at for being a younger listener. Hey. Hi.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
No, I can just, but I'm watching her when you stop petting her, slap you with her paw. Full claws, full claws out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
She's full claws and she'll bite if I don't do it. Okay. Yeah. She's like, we are doing something. I don't care about your podcast. Anyways, I was listening to episode 451 and was reminded of my own balloon endeavors as a child and had to write in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I have always been the type of person to pick up a random, oh, I guess episode 451 was Lawn Chair Larry, the man who flew in his weather balloons, flew in a lawn chair. Definitely. And survived and lived to tell the tale. Epic. It's a good one. Hi. Me too. Wow. I love that. Right? I didn't even like think of that as a thing you could learn, but yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I know they were, this is a crafty person that thought this up. They were like, I'm not doing the usual hook rugs or whatever. Hook rugs, that's the most 70s thing I've ever said in my life. While searching our craft closet, what? Yeah, sign me up for that. Why don't I have that? I mean, I'm so furious right now on behalf of my inner nine-year-old.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
While searching our craft closet, it came across... Our version of a fucking craft closet was like me looking through old photo albums of my parents. Just being like, I wonder who these people are. Just nothing interesting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
And a big F you. Okay. So sorry. Back to the email. Okay. While searching our craft closet, I came across a bag of those skinny balloons, a hand pump, an instruction book on how to make balloon animals. I have no idea where the book or supplies came from, but I made it my mom's problem all summer long.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Imagine trying to enjoy your summer evening, and all you hear in the distance is the high-pitched sound of balloons squeaking together for hours on end with the occasional pop. Oh, my God. The hand pump did end up going missing one day, and I was unable to find it, thus ending my early beginnings to being a child clown.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
I'm pretty sure my mom hid it, but only after I had already made 40 balloon animals that summer. Holy shit. Wow. What do you like? Do you like rhinoceroses? Yeah. Want a snake? Okay. Thank you for everything you do and being there when things got tough. You guys have been with me through two graduations, the pandemic and the strike as I was a fresh film grad when it all went down.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Stay sexy and don't let your kids pick up clown hobbies.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Well, yeah, because I wonder if it's like, they're strategizing behind the scenes. Yeah. That's what you're saying. Yeah. Like have something ready for them. Something interesting, but that they can kind of discover. Yeah. I mean, God, that'd be amazing parenting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
Really? I got really into collecting Mrs. Grossman stickers, which were those like heart teddy bear. I really got into them, and then I tried to sell them at school, and people were like, we don't need this. We already have our own. Sticky stickers. I got a box for Christmas, and I was like, you can buy them through me. People were like, we don't know what you're talking about.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 416
See, Karen, you were into merch from a very early age.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Mimi the supermodel with her tiny, tiny mouth.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
It's like nobody cared. Yeah, they weren't paying attention. They were just like, oh, you have to, we're just going to real quick make this easy for ourselves and put you in a room somewhere and not look into this. Totally. And like literally it was like an 11 year old that on his own without his mom or anybody doing the work, he had to make sure he never ate a peanut.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
So he literally like, what's in this? I don't know. I'm not like it was sad. Anyway, he made it. I'm a peanut peanut allergy truther. And I'm here to say. Okay. I'm not going to read you the subject line. It just starts, Hello, all. I appreciate all the work you and the entire company does. Nice. Well, that's all the emotion I can handle based on my German family upbringing. I appreciate that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Nice one. So it says, Let's get into the story. This last holiday trip home, I heard a casual story from my dad. While watching a crime show with him, he mentioned that the FBI interviewed him once, leading me to immediately ask for the details.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Back in the 80s, my dad was a nurse anesthetist, which is a specialized nurse who sedates or induces general anesthesia for medical procedures. To make extra money, he would pick up shifts at a Chicago abortion clinic on the weekends. Well, this clinic happened to be run by the Chicago mob, specifically Anthony Tony Centraccio.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Okay. Mostly, my dad would keep to himself and do his work, so this wasn't a problem. Occasionally, he would be offered jewelry to buy while working there, which he politely declined. Okay. You need this bracelet or you want a bracelet? Wow. During this time, the FBI came to our house and asked him about his work, the clinic, who owned it, and were particularly interested in Tony Centraccio. Sure.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
My dad states that he was relatively vague about his responses, like likely a smart decision. The FBI also asked about the jewelry being offered, which my dad replied he never bought because, quote, it wasn't his style. Yeah. Then instead of keeping this interview to himself, he told the mob members at the clinic that he had been interviewed. So smart.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. Self-report. Yeah. When working alongside or with the mob, please self-report.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Thankfully, he didn't know anything of value for the mom to care about it. My dad is in his early 70s now, and he still volunteers his time in service at abortion clinics. He considers it one of the ways he can give back in this questionable time, and it's a reminder that abortion rights are human rights.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
He is the reason both my sister and I are in the medical field and is always proud to label himself a girl dad. Aww. I hope this makes at least one person smile while reading, even if it does not make it on the podcast. Stay sexy and don't buy jewelry with mop ties. Rachel.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
And it's important. It's important work that has been politicized and weirdly religiousized in a way that is actually neither smart or accurate or good for our culture.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
And I love Italians, of course.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yeah. Right? It's a discussion that you would probably want to be having.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
You better call her and reset that plan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Feel it in your body. Oh, my God. It's a tightness in the throat and the chest. It is. And it kind of, we all come in and go out alone. And it is hard. But there's more maybe. But there's more to it. I think they just proved it, these two. Why am I so far back away from the microphone?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Like there's a that was a little bit of a there's proof of that humans can do more. If twins can do it, that means eventually regular people will be able to do it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
But it's also that thing of like what a lucky thing that it actually worked. And that there was a little more time, especially knowing that she had kids. She said, Mariah Carey, stop yelling at me. Like, what the fuck? So she, that's a good tip of like, maybe you can bug people out of comas. Just irritate them.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
I think so. I do. I think people can do it now. Like, did you listen to the telepathy tapes? That podcast?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
I keep seeing clips on TikTok, and it's basically like the clips are amazing, but it almost feels like it's about a documentary. So I'm like, oh, I need to actually just sit down and listen to this podcast. So I'm recommending it blind based on TikTok.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
But it's like basically studies where the theory is kids with different kinds of autism have the ability to have telepathic connection with their caretaker. Ooh. So if they're nonverbal, they can still communicate.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
That's amazing. Yeah, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
I do. Okay. The subject line of this email is, parents' house home phone number was one digit off from the funeral home. Hello. Oh, no. We had the dentist. We had the dentist one. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. Hello, all. Long time listener. First time writing in. I've been waiting for years to have a good hometown story to share.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
And after hearing Minnesota 416 about the girl whose home phone was mistaken for a doctor's office, I knew it was finally my time. I grew up in a small town in Ohio in the early 2000s. During this time, a new funeral home opened in town and their phone number was just one digit off from my parents' home phone. For years, we got calls from people trying to reach the funeral home.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
It happened so often that my parents changed their answering machine message to clarify. If you're trying to call the funeral home, you've dialed the wrong number.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
It's like the worst moment to be in charge of like that kind of executive function. Yes, exactly. At first, my mom did her best to explain the mistake to the callers, but it wasn't easy. Many people insisted they had the right number. She ended up as an unofficial unpaid secretary for the funeral home, taking messages and calling them herself to pass them along. That
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
The funeral home thought it was funny and even told her, if anyone ever calls for a body pickup, let us know right away. We got all kinds of calls, an elderly woman crying about her husband's headstone, questions about visiting hours and more. My mom had the hardest time convincing people they'd call the private residence. One time, the owner of the funeral home himself popped up on our caller ID.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
My mom answered hello and was immediately met with him yelling, that's not how you answer the phone. We're a professional business. Use the business name. Oh, my God. He must have been joking. That's psychotic. And then she said without missing a beat, if you're so professional, shouldn't you know your own phone number? You called a private residence.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
He quickly apologized and hung up, clearly mortified. So he did mean it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
I literally would have typed up an invoice for my time and then been like, oh, if you're going to yell at me like I'm in your employee, you can pay me like an employee.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Okay. Over the years, the calls happen less and less. And thankfully, my parents haven't received one in a long time. Say sexy and double check the number before you hit call. Jess S. Oh, that's good. Do you think things like that happen less and less?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yeah. Like the number is blue in Google, whatever.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yes, it is. It's like, hey, remember only 40 years ago, but that also is so long ago. It's 190 years ago.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yeah, something that's like family friendly, either raunchy or just interesting. Like, do you have a memory about your family's landline? Like the phone that hung in the kitchen before everybody had their own individual phone. Totally. There was so much fighting at my house about get off the phone. I'm not paying for that phone call.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
And then when Pacific Bell did their like 1986 update and there was call waiting and there was call forwarding. I love that you remember. what year that like, it was so exciting. It was, it was epic. Cause then you could, no one could tell you get off the phone because there's call waiting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yes. Do all that and then stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
This has been an Exactly Right production.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
It wasn't though. It really wasn't. No one ever called anyone unless you had to. Totally. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Nice one, Virginia. Like that turned quick. That just like... Yeah, because in my mind, like talking about walking across that school, it was just like empty school, wind is blowing. You know what I mean? The loneliest thing in the world is like an empty school. Totally.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yeah. These brave teenagers are like, nope. They're not standing by. No, it's the best. Yeah. That's really wild. Very lovely. But also it's the kind of thing where it's like stuff like that happens to people. And then she's like that she's attributing his need for like to keep people safe. And that and that is how bad things bring about good things.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Like it's like now he is maybe over vigilant, but then that care and concern benefits all these people in his life. Absolutely. Okay. I'm not going to read you the subject line. So. It just starts, hey, Karen Georgia, and assorted animals all jump right into it. My dad's family moved around a lot when he was younger due to my grandpa's job with the military.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
One of the places they lived when he was a little older was the Caribbean, where my dad got a job on a sailboat and became friends with the owner. Fast forward about 15 years, and my parents wanted to take their three young kids on vacation. Since they're cheapskates, they decided to take us down to Belize. Those fucking cheapskates. That doesn't sound cheap.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
No. We literally went to the same lake every year. Don't be crazy. And it was a drive. It was a three-hour drive, and we drove it there and back every time. A country in Central America where my dad's friend was now living, to stay with him and his wife for a couple weeks.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
On one of our last days in the country, my parents took my older brother and I on a tour of Monkey River, where we were supposed to be able to see crocodiles and manatees. For reference, the tour consisted of only my family and a tour guide in a little boat floating down a river and up the shore of the jungle."
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
I guess manatees were a really big selling feature on these tours because as our time slot was running out, our tour guide really seemed intent on finding us a manatee to take pictures of. Finally, he spotted one in the distance. However, as our little boat got closer and closer to the manatee, it became clear that it was in fact not a manatee in the water. Oh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
but a man floating face down next to a boogie board. He was wearing a green and blue wetsuit and he was still strapped to his board at his wrist. Given that he had drowned in a kind of remote area in the jungle, we were the first ones to find him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yeah. It says this was a while ago and I don't fully remember what the tour guide said to my parents since I was paying attention to the corpse right beside our boat. But I'm pretty sure that the tour guide knew who the man was and said that he'd been diving for oysters. Oh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
At the time, the police in Belize were pretty corrupt and had a reputation for arresting tourists for crimes they didn't commit in order to elicit bribes. So the guide told my parents not to mention the body to anyone and that he would take care of it. Wow. Cue my parents having to explain two very important concepts to their six- and eight-year-old children. Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Death and that snitches get stitches. Yeah. To this day, I get super stressed when going through customs since my parents absolutely forbade us from talking to any customs agent, a six-year-old and an eight-year-old.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Yes. The stakes go wildly high. Yeah. So our parents absolutely forbade us from talking to any customs agent when trying to leave Belize. Yes. I also refused to swim in the ocean for the next couple of years because although my mom had said the man had probably passed away from a heart attack, six-year-old me knew deep down that it was sharks that had gotten him.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Sure, sharks or a giant clam that opened and enclosed. You know, that's always... Snap. That was my big concern. Really? When I was young. A giant clam. I saw it in some... Weird 70s children's thing where it's like a real life swimmer and a real sized up clam. I can picture it. Yeah. Well, my mom has taken my brothers and I on lots of sketchy vacations since then.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Most involved her flying us across the Atlantic Ocean by herself to stay for months at a time with strangers she met on the Internet. What? And then in parentheses it says, my mom is not a murder, you know. And then it says that was probably one of the most memorable. Oh, basically. So aside from that, that was probably one of the most memorable trips we've been on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Thanks for making this great podcast and giving me something to do instead of studying for my college finals. Oh, no. And then it says you've definitely knocked my GPA down a point or two, to which I will say you've definitely knocked your GPA down a point or two. Hit stop. It's not that good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Which is fun. Yeah. Oh, you know what? I feel like the file folder just opened and it was that one where the girl got the kit of like sparkle of glitter. No, it was balloon animals. Fucking balloon animals. Wasn't there a sparkle one, too, where it was just like sparkles?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Anyway. Yes. Balloon animals was recent.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
Drooling. Mimi did a real good poke-up from the bottom of the Zoom screen. Like...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
The noise was there and that's all that matters. Exactly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
I really like that. Isn't that lovely? Also, it's just, like, so funny for kids these days where, like, literally you cannot be near peanuts. And, like, the peanut allergy thing that came up, which is important and good. I'm not trying to be one of those people who's like, nobody was allergic to peanuts before. Right. I love when comics make those generalizations. I'm like, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 420
My next door neighbor who I was just talking about, he had such a bad peanut allergy. Like he had to have an EpiPen at all times or his throat would close and he would die.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah, but a GPS isn't going to steer you. You know what I mean? Correct. Like, I don't think learning DPS would have helped at all. I think maybe something, staying on the ground might have been a better decision. Walking. How about a long walk to raise money?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
How many times, like, how many decades apart do we need to learn this lesson? It shouldn't be that close.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Look away. Like, oh, no, this isn't good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Okay. We were both on the other sides of the... I don't think mine's right, though. I just think it's funny. That would be very funny. Today you asked for family drama, and I come from two large Catholic families and started thinking through all the family lore and shenanigans. Could I tell you the story about dangling my little cousin down the second floor laundry chute? Oh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Your best friends and then you fucking hate each other more than you've ever hated anyone. Yeah. And then your best friends the next day.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Did you see that one? Like there's like a TikTok video of like the older sister. She's probably like 10 telling her little sister exactly how to ask her for what she wants. Yeah. And it's, you know, and at the end, no, you may not. I'm that little sister. I'm so triggered by that as a little sister.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Please, may I not? No, you may not. No, you may not.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Let's face it, we take way too many photos every year, but how often do we get a chance to show them off? With Oriframes, it's ridiculously easy to share your favorite pictures with the ones you love. They allow users to curate and share their photos and memories with loved ones, making it a personal and meaningful gift.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Or about the island my family used to own in Pittsburgh until they squandered away all of their money and it was seized by the government? Yeah. Nope, it has to be the bloody handprint on my grandparents' basement wall. Oh, shit. When I was growing up, my grandparents lived in a split-level home, read lots of stairs, and the lowest level was a cement basement.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It's the cutest. And your niece with a sunset. That's so sweet. I love that. Save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carver matte frames by using promo code MFM at checkout. That's A-U-R-A frames.com promo code MFM. This deal is exclusive to our listeners, so get yours now in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions apply. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
This is called an absolute child hero. Yes. Hi, it's me, the child hero. It's me. For the past 24 years, I've had a thin white box in the bottom of my jewelry box. Inside is a bronze medal attached to a red, white, and blue ribbon fastened to a pin. You're welcome. George Washington's bust is under the words, Good Citizenship Award.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
In 2000, I was given this medal, interviewed by a local news station and got my name in the paper. This is a story of how I helped to save my teacher's life. Holy shit. I love this. I remember watching a movie about penguins. All desks were pushed to the sides in my second grade classroom and all the kids were sitting huddled together under the TV in the dark. Picture it. Ugh. Ugh.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I slowly and quietly got closer to her until I could see her eyes were closed. My heart was beating so fast and my chest felt on fire. I decided I needed to tell the most in-charge adult in the school, the principal, Mr. Johnson. I remember running down the hallway to get there. I made it breathlessly to the front office. The secretary asked, what do you need?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I responded, Miss Hill is sleeping on the floor and she won't wake up. She stood up, opened Mr. Johnson's office door behind her and repeated what I said. Like a superhero, he popped up and started running. When he got there, he turned on all the lights, scared the shit out of my second grade class, and immediately started performing CPR.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
The paramedics were called and all kids were ushered into another room for the rest of the day. I went home and did my homework as usual, not sharing the events of the day with anyone.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It wasn't until Mr. Johnson called my mom that night and told her what I did that I realized it was important. I remember my mom with her ear to the phone, tears streaming down her face, just staring at me. It turns out Miss Hill suffered cardiac arrest at the age of 50. Oh, no. Due to the quick action of Mr. Johnson and the paramedics, she made a full recovery.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
If she had gone without CPR for two minutes more, she would have had permanent brain damage.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Yeah. Miss Hill was in the hospital for the rest of the school year and retired that summer. She never taught, nor did I ever see her again. I would, however, get called down to the attendance office every year on the anniversary of the event. Miss Hill sent me letters from when I was eight to 18, thanking me for saving her life. The last letter I received was when I was a senior in high school.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I was down there one day, probably trying to find their grumpy cat, Mo, when I noticed something on one of the cement walls. I looked a little closer and thought it faintly looked like a brownish-colored handprint, obviously faded with time. Later that day in the car, I asked my dad, hey, is there a handprint on the basement wall at grandma's house? Oh, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Miss Hill. Miss Hill writes her letters. She keeps up with her letters. That's lovely. The best part of the story, I did some light stalking while composing this email. Miss Hill is still alive, a beautiful woman in her mid-70s. Her social media is filled with pictures of her children and six grandchildren. Come on. Well, that's how I peaked at seven years old.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Thank you both for creating the podcast that created this community. At the same time, this little girl helped to save a life. Finding a dead body was on her bucket list and CSI was her favorite show. Yeah, girl. I knew I wasn't the only weirdo. No. Stay sexy and look for the helpers, even the tiny ones. Bailey, she, her. Bailey.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Right, like I'm opening with this thing I have.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
It's all going to work. Maybe that was the first fucking instance of your badassery. And for the rest of your life now, you've been on this trajectory. You're just doing it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
What the fuck? Oh, because it was like heavy? Could squirt a baby.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
That's from when your great grandmother died. What? Yep. Here's the story. Oh. Oh, no. She fell and hit her head. At some point, she touched her bloody head and then touched the wall, leaving the infamous bloody handprint. It is exact. Yes, it is exactly what you think it's going to be. Jesus Christ.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. My toes hurt thinking about that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And there's still good memories, even though they're tainted by this thing. It sucks. By loss. You can still share them with people and feel them and feel good about them instead of just feeling... Sad. That's really sweet. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I wanted her to see it. It makes me think of my brother because he would never have done that. Asher. My sister would have been like, get out of the sandpit. This is our sandpit. What a sweetheart. I know. All right. Well, thank you guys for listening to The Hometowns. Please send yours in, whatever it is, at MyFavoriteMurder at Gmail. Try to make us cry. That'll be the new request. Dare you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I will cry. That's easy, though.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Don't do that. Also, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
She did not die there on the floor, but she was not found until the morning and was taken to the hospital where she died later.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Why am I doing this story is a question I'm asking myself right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I mean, the hamper remains to this day, I think, is the point that all our families are fucking morbid and weird and we just go along with it like everything's fine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Rinsing, painting over it. Thanks for all you do and share. This podcast has dramatically impacted the way I see the world and myself. And though my husband is not a listener, he doesn't need to be because I literally retell him every single episode. Stay sexy and dig deep for those family stories because everyone's got them. Yeah, that's true. Beth. Beth, good point.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I think that's the point is like everyone has a bloody handprint from their great grandmother in the basement wall.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Okay. You know, I'm going to stick, I am sticking with it. I am, what is it, sticking by my.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
There were so many episodes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Having no idea what was happening, but there was a fucking tidal wave happening. But now we're doing rewind episodes, so you can listen to those instead of going back to the first 100. You can listen to the rewind episodes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
I was like, what's my brain telling my mouth that I said 843? This is our podcast and nothing has changed from the first 100 to now. It's also the 100. It's actually not that different from when it was in the beginning.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
That's why I prefer deliveries from Home Chef.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And Home Ship has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs, so you don't have to worry about what to make ahead of time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Not only is it convenient, but it's economical, too. Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Article makes furniture shopping a breeze with its carefully selected styles from mid-century modern to boho and everything in between. No more endless scrolling, just beautiful options that suit your taste.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
And Article provides fast and affordable shipping across the US and Canada. You get to choose your delivery time, and they'll keep you in the loop with updates along the way.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
So we have a little back house that we let guests stay in, friends stay in when they want to. And recently a good friend of mine wanted to stay back there and none of my friends had stayed back there, only Vincent. So I kind of hadn't done anything to it because I don't care, but I wanted to impress her. Where did I go? Freaking article.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
So like, for example, there was just a like a plain mattress on wheels back there, you know, that I didn't care about. Then I saw this Calabria bed. It's gorgeous. It's like simple, but it adds so much style. I threw
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Give us the benefit of the doubt. Now go. Okay. Now that we've just berated them. They like it. This is called Family Drama, Bloody Handprint. Hi. Day seven listener here, a longtime dreamer of writing a hometown, but I never felt I had the right story. Wait, wait, wait. I don't know. Episode seven or day seven? Like seven days after we released the first episode? I don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Okay, this one's called The Balloon Priest. Yep, you read that right. He would be friends with Lawn Chair Larry. That's the whole subject line. Hi, Karen, Georgia, an MFM team. I have a hometown that will match Karen's story for Lawn Chair Larry, and it comes all the way from Brazil. The Balloon Priest, a tale equal parts inspiring, bizarre, and undeniably tragic.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
The year was 2008, and on April 20th, Father Adelir Antonio de Carli, or as he became known, the balloon priest, took flight from a city in the south of Brazil attached to 1,000 helium balloons. Father Adelir's mission wasn't just about grabbing attention. He had a purpose in mind.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
His goal was to raise funds for a rest area and chapel for truck drivers where they could take a break from the road, recharge, and find spiritual comfort. Sorry. That's so specific. I know. It's for like, maybe it's a cultural thing. I don't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
But how about let's think about the truck drivers. They're also hungry. Yeah. And tired. And they needed spiritual comfort. But to accomplish this, he decided to break the record for cluster ballooning and make it all the way to the state where his brother lived. It was both audacious and outrageous. People couldn't look away.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Adelier even went through jungle survival courses, parachute training, and packed a GPS parachute and five days worth of food and water. On what? Are they about to tell us? I don't know. Packed on his back? I guess so. The only problem, he didn't know how to use the GPS.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
After taking off and reaching a dizzying 19,000 feet, and it says way higher than planned, he was heard frantically saying, quote, I need to figure out this GPS or no one will know where I am, end quote. It was a detail only our priest could overlook, but to his credit, he tried valiantly to reach the Coast Guard before his phone battery died.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
Unfortunately, by the time he called in his position, he was far off course, swept out over the ocean. Oh, no. Despite efforts by the Navy, Air Force, and even a plane rented by his family, hope faded. Months later, in July 2008, the lower half of a body was found floating off the coast of Rio de Janeiro, 522 miles away from where he took flight.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 414
DNA tests confirmed it was Father Adelier closing this chapter in his remarkable journey. Cool. God, that's sad. And then it says, jump to 2013. A pop country duo drops a dancing track that skyrockets to the top of the Brazilian charts and has everybody dancing to it in nightclubs and social events. I am going to leave you with some of the lyrics from that song. The sun is blazing. It's past noon.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 417
Snitches getting stitches? Oh, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 417
Jungle Jim. I get it. Jungle Jim. Jungle Jim.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 417
Hello. And welcome. To my favorite murder. The mini-sode. Yep. Yep. You agree? I think I think so.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
What does Nicole do now, I wonder? It's just such a vast array of life experience. Yeah. It's fascinating.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
My last one is short. It's called My Klepto Dad. A very, very short read. After the mini-sale with the klepto-grandma, remember there was a grandma who kept fucking putting shit in her purse, I am officially joining the Finally I Have Something to Write In About Club.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
In the first 10 years of my life, I received various trinkets from my dad, things from shops, airplanes, anywhere and everywhere, and he always told me that the ladies gave them to him. The ladies. I was really fond of these nice ladies until I got older and realized that all this stuff was stolen. Oh, no.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
We have many, many airplane blankets, various sets of airplane spoons, and other random items from the ladies. Yeah. Love you. Blah, blah, blah. Aggie from Hungary.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Bad bitch Mimi. Wait, have you worn that one before? I've worn the cookie one. All right. Do you want to go first? Sure. Hardcore classic hometown. This is called My Dad Was a Detective in the Crimes Against Persons Unit. Classic hometown with family connection. Three minute read. Okay. Hey, gang. I'm a day three listener, but an OG murderino, and I adore you all. Let's jump in.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
There's no reason for a fucking two-year-old to travel for a wedding.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Oh, God.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Yes, I want my fucking Cuisinart back.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Jesus wants me to have my fucking Cuisinart back.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
In my hometown of Fort Collins, Colorado, my dad was a detective in the Crimes Against Persons Unit. Murders, kidnapping, assaults, you name it, he responded to it. I could write you a lot of emails. I recently realized I've been professionally interrogated my whole life, but he also let me read old case files in middle school, so there were perks, too. On to the story. Right?
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Oh, God, I love family drama.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
No. Attending is a favor. And then don't expect gifts. I've gotten you three gifts already.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Oh, I love her.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Your aunt's probably fun to party with, though.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Have you seen those videos from like the holidays where they're like, they go around the room and say, hey, if you were bringing someone new to the family gathering, who would you warn them about? And everyone says one person. It's always the one person.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Yep, it's Jen. That's the energy it gave me.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
The one who doesn't get believe in vaccinations. Right. I'm going to guess no. What's there to believe in? It exists, and whether or not you believe in it.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
It doesn't need you believing in it. Okay. Hey, send us your stories at MyFavoriteMurder at Gmail. Hey, choir that we love to preach to.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Thanks for listening.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Tell us about the person that you would warn other people about if they came to your family party and tell us why. Yeah. Everything about like what they've done. Yes. All the things they've ruined. Like lightheartedly.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Late at night on September 9th, 1998, the police were called about a domestic dispute involving 23-year-old Nicole Holm and her boyfriend. Her boyfriend was arrested for an outstanding traffic violation. Nicole didn't have a working phone and went knocking on doors at her apartment complex for a phone to contact help to bail her boyfriend out of jail.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Okay. We got to hear those stories. Yeah. And also stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Goodbye.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
While doing so, Nicole encountered 25-year-old Tibis Kenep. The two were seen together at a convenience store where Nicole may have gone for help. That evening, Nicole was found brutally attacked, sexually assaulted, stabbed and murdered in her apartment. Like what an insane just series of events. While frantically filling the scene, Kenneth was pulled over by, you guessed it, my dad. Oh, wow.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
He had been called for backup as Kenneth was acting suspicious and sweating profusely. There was a gold chain hanging out of his pocket. The police ran Kenneth's ID and took a photo, but because Nicole's body had yet to be found, there was no crime to tie him to or known reason not to let him go. Right. Kenneth fled immediately, and the trail went cold when his car was last found in New Mexico.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
As a prime suspect, he eventually appeared on an episode of America's Most Wanted. Fast forward nine months. A lady who employed Kenneth at a pizzeria in a tiny town in Livingston, Guatemala, became suspicious of him, possibly because of the notable tattoo that spelled out fear on his knuckles.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
It was 1999, so though she struggled to find Internet access, when she did, she did verify Kenneth's identity on the FBI website and called the U.S. Embassy in Guatemala.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Although I can't find her name, I consider that woman a hero. According to my dad, Kenneth had hitchhiked there, no air travel or official transportation. That is approximately a 45-hour drive. Oh, wow. And it says, which in 2024 time is still 45 hours. Kenneth was extradited back to Colorado. My dad was the co-lead investigator on the case at the time.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
With Kenneth's DNA at the crime scene, graphic police interrogations, and the gold chain noted by the police during the traffic stop suspected to be Nicole's necklace, the self-described sicko was convicted of first-degree sexual assault and first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole. He later died by suicide in prison.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Stay sexy, trust your gut, and check the FBI Most Wanted list. A. Wow, eh?
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
It's a listener.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Yeah, that's not it.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Yeah, it did.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Shoes in the crawl space would be like... Large amount of anything is bad, but shoes is like definitely on that list. Hidden shoes. Why don't those people have their shoes anymore?
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Data and science are two words that like I don't wouldn't don't cross my mind. And she's studying science. Both of them.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
The other red flag for me is that I don't think people should have personal fireplaces. I think there should be a community fireplace in the living room. Right. But I don't trust anyone else with like a bedroom fireplace.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
No, but they're just like going to put it out properly. Oh, right.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Or like going to fall asleep and forget that there's, I just don't trust personal fireplaces.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
It's a community thing that we can all remember. Please. In case someone forgets.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
accidentally uncovered my in-laws family secret at my first Christmas with their family. Let's get to it. I married into a pretty traditional and religious family. Our first year married, I decided to be creative and make my husband's grandmother a beautiful family tree. I got photos of everyone and tracked down dates of birth and wedding dates to put together the family tree.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
There were a few dates I wasn't sure of, like the date of my husband's grandparents' wedding. On Christmas Day, I was running around asking relatives to fill in the missing date for me. Everyone seemed back and forth on the grandparents' wedding date. Was it 1969 or 1968? The confusing factor was that they were married in December.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Everyone agreed it must have been December 1968 because my husband's father was born in July 1970. And babies aren't born at less than seven months, big and beautiful with no complications, especially in the 60s. Except you know where this is going.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Later that day, we found an actual newspaper clipping of their wedding announcement stating that they were indeed married December 1969 and my father-in-law was born July 1970. Everyone looked at each other with glances saying, oh my gosh. It seems very likely that his grandmother was pregnant on their wedding day.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
My husband and I still talk about how I unknowingly uncovered a family secret I love, like just so nosy without knowing it. First holiday. Just fucking coming and shredding that pit.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
The new element you have to deal with in this family. That's right. It's just like clear the dance floor, everyone. We're talking about it.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
My husband and I still talk about how I had known the Uncovered Family Secret just three months after joining his family. Because the math is just a little too close, if you ask us. If you're wondering what his grandmother thought about all of this, she played the I'm just as surprised and confused as you card, which is totally her right and pretty badass in its own way. Always do that. Yeah.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Play the confused grandma your entire life.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Don't get too much Botox here because you always want to be furrowing your brow. Truly, realistically furrowing. Yeah. I loved her since I never knew my own grandparents very well. She was a young widow and one time a real life cult leader tried to date slash marry her in the 80s. But that's a story for another time. Please send it. Such a good cliffhanger.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Stay sexy and maybe toss out the newspaper evidence. Emily.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
And don't bring it up, especially like in the 60s. I feel like that was just pretty par for the course.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Yes. I forgot what we did. Hometown, mini, that's Karen, that's Georgia.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
Yeah.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
That's my out. I can't eat in silence.
The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Day 33: Locusts, Darkness, and Death of the Firstborn (2025)
In studio, I mean. Is it? Off Zoom. Take to your camera. I wore something. Is it? Could it be? I wonder. I wore something special. For the occasion. Oh.