Detective
Appearances
20/20
True Crime Vault: Overboard
Tom and Jackie Hawks, were in the process of selling the vessel to this other couple, Skylar and Jennifer DeLeon. We ran both of them to figure out, because they were probably or potentially the last people to see the Hawks. When we ran Skylar, we automatically find out that he's got a record.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He had done jail time for an armed burglary, where he broke into a house with a weapon, and he was on probation.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Newport Beach is the dream that a lot of people think of when they think of California.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He said he was Marine Corps Force Recon, which for those who don't know, is one of the elite military forces in the United States military. He got a Marine Corps Force Recon tattoo.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He would explain that he had attended all these classes and all this training and he had, you know, 62 confirmed kills.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We get a search warrant to look at the boat, and they find a bunch of things that are of interest, but they find that, number one, it's messy, so Tom Hawks has not left it that way. and they find a receipt from a Target store.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
It's one of the few places in the United States that you can buy a multi-million dollar home and have a dock ready to accommodate a 50-, 60-, 100-foot yacht. Oh, yeah.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
If I was going to kill somebody, you know, I'd have my clean kit, and it would be bags to get rid of evidence, you know, bleach to wipe down the scene, and maybe if I had a conscience, some Tums to settle my stomach after killing some poor people. Target security was able to pull up that specific purchase of these items.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And I was looking at an obese man, which was not Skyler DeLeon. Now we have another little straw on the camel's back saying, okay, who is this guy? And why is this receipt on this boat? And who is this clown?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They find a receipt from a Target store. And every time you purchase anything from a Target store, You're photographed at the cash register and you're photographed leaving. So we get this photograph of this guy and police trace it back. And it is Steve Henderson, Jennifer's father, who actually made this purchase.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
So Newport detectives go to his house in Long Beach and they say, is this you in this photograph buying these items? We found this receipt on a boat. He immediately says, yeah, my daughter and son-in-law purchased that boat.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He says, they're helping to clean a church right down the street. I think they're there now.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
When I see a family volunteering in a church... I was put at ease a little bit with that, thinking, okay, this is gonna turn out okay. The Hawks are fine. These people will tell us what happened and then we'll be able to locate them and close the case. I was talking to Jennifer and basically said, we're looking for the Hawks. The family's very concerned. And she said, we're really concerned too.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She goes, we've been trying to reach out to them continually since we bought it. They have a lot of property, clothes and stuff on the vessel. We don't know what to do. She was very specific and seemed very genuine in her concern for the hawks and finding them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler says, we purchased it. All the documents were proper. They signed them. We recorded them. I don't know what else to tell you.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We told Skyler that we needed copies of the paperwork. He told us that he had certified notarized paperwork regarding the sale, so the sale was legitimate.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He produces these documents indicating that Skyler and Jennifer had purchased the boat from Tom and Jackie Hawks. There are signatures on it. There are fingerprints on it.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I was shaking my head going, okay, I still can't get a handle on this guy. The following day, he agreed to go to the Newport Beach Police Department where we had him in a proper interview and recorded the interview. Go down and see Scott. We're still in the same position where we were yesterday. These folks are still missing. Family is very concerned, and that's understandable.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Schuyler was very forthright. He was very, very interested in finding where the hawks were. How did you hear about the vessel being
20/20
True Crime Vault: Overboard
Of course, one of the big questions is, well, hey, man, where did you get the money? And he goes, look, as you look into my background, you're going to see I was involved in a burglary. In reality, that was a part of a dope rip. That was a drug ripoff.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
At this point, I already knew Skyler was on probation for an armed burglary, so he's a felon. And now he said, I'm telling you, Sergeant, I want to go straight with my family. I'm a father now. I have another child on the way. So I'm trying to invest this money in a way that I can support them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I go, so you're legitimizing this money that was illegal. And he copped out basically to money laundering.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
You didn't have to. You could have told me, hey, man, you know, I inherited the money. I did whatever. You were very honest with me, and that's all I'm asking for.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I was asking, what kind of container was this money in? Was it loose bills? Was it, you know, all hundreds? They're all $100 bills?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And I just know working narcotics, it was just a mishmash of cash. It was never something where you'd go into a bank vault and see perfectly stacked thousands of dollars in bank wrappers. So that kind of raised a flag. You flashed the cash to them? Yeah. Did you just open the briefcase or did you give it to them?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler was very descriptive on Tom's reaction when he opened the briefcase, and it was full of cash.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
According to Skyler, Tom asked him, is it all here? Skyler kind of giggled at me and said, yep, it's all there. And so they basically said, here's the keys to the yacht. Tom and Jackie drove off in their Honda. And Scott and Jennifer said that was the last time that they saw them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Hey, I'm the captain of this boat. They were talking about buying a home in New Mexico, and we corroborated that from other sources. Tom was interested in that. Skyler, you got nothing to do with his disappearance, right?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And your wife doesn't either? No. Nobody in your family, your dad, nobody, right?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
When you look at the interview, Skyler is leaning over to these detectives, and he is so convincing.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Why is it you guys have power of attorney? This is a big stumbling point for the family. They said that there's no way that their family members would give power of attorney to anybody. Power of attorney, that was a pretty powerful document because what I was looking at was that Tom and Jaggy Hawks had basically gave Skyler DeLeon complete control of their assets, which made absolutely no sense.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jennifer and Skylar walk in, and they have this durable power of attorney. So the bank manager looks at this. It's been properly recorded. Their signatures are on it, it's been properly notarized, and takes one look at it and goes, no way am I giving you access to their accounts.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Go down and see Skyler. I'm going to borrow you for a little bit because I had to go over a few more questions on this thing. Why is it you guys have power of attorney?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Scott had volunteered that he was very experienced in purchasing property there and that he had dual citizenship, he was of Mexican descent, and that he could facilitate a sale. Since he was giving him such a great deal on the yacht, he would help him out get this money. And Scott had proceeded to tell us that Tom was very interested
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We talked to friends and family of Tom and Jackie Ox. Sure enough, Tom had been talking to people about buying a little house in the Sea of Cortez.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Alonzo Machain, his name was there in full print as a witness on this bill of sale. And when I asked Skylar who is Alonzo Machain, he says, oh, he's a friend of mine that I've met, and he's from Mexico. Well, our investigation shows that Alonzo happened to meet Skylar while Skylar was doing jail time.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I'm going to be confident with Alonso because he's also one of the last people to see them, so that helps us. Okay, good. Yeah, that's fine.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They go and they interview Alonso, and Alonso tells essentially the same story. We're there in the parking lot. I watch Skylar hand this money over to this guy. They drive out in their car. The other person they interviewed was Kathleen Harris. Kathleen Harris, she was a professional notary, never been in trouble a day in her life, and she told a very similar story. They were down there.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She watched this transaction. She notarized the documents. We hit a dead end in this investigation. We had a group of people who were all telling the same story. We had no physical evidence of a crime. We had no word from Tom and Jackie Hawks. We had no break in the case at all. Brother, I don't want to keep here anymore. I appreciate you driving down here.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Overboard
I was so relieved. I was overwhelmed and choked up. Please be the Hawks. I want to find them alive. I'm thinking, okay, let's get down it right away. If I was going to kill somebody, you know, I'd have my clean kit, bags to get rid of evidence, bleach to wipe down the scene, and maybe if I had a conscience, some tums to settle my stomach after killing some poor people.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar says, look, I purchased this boat, and I don't know what else to tell you.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We'd been in a dead end for weeks, and we made the decision that we needed to get some media attention to the case.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
But the couple's car was missing. We're splashing the license plate, the vehicle description, the picture of the Hawks everywhere we could.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And what Skyler says is, look, I bought the boat from these people, and last I saw was they were leaving the parking lot with a suitcase full of cash that I paid them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We get a call from a retired couple that lived in San Miguel, Mexico.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
It's right there. And she snapped a photograph of it and sent it to us. And here we are looking at the Hawk's vehicle.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They're speaking in Spanish, but I'm making enough out of what's going on.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And I go... And at that moment, then I just said, ugh. Any possibility that the Hawks were still alive died right there, unfortunately, because as soon as I heard that, I go, yeah.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler had befriended this gentleman's son years earlier. And Skyler was an avid surfer. He would go down and surf, and he would stay with that family.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That family had no idea who that car belonged to or the circumstances.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
This is the big urgency we have right now. These people are still missing. I'm fearful that they're not alive.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Newport detectives wanted to interview him as much as possible because this story was starting to fray around the edges.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
You're saying you have nothing to do with their disappearance? No. You, as far as you know, they're alive?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And what you've told us so far is the truth regarding you getting money smuggled up here? No.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
One of the first things detectives find is they find Tom and Jackie's laptop.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
The film that was in it was of all the Hawks' adventures out at sea, and then it abruptly ends.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar and Jennifer were using Tom and Jackie's camcorder to record their family Thanksgiving.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
A fellow detective of mine, Jay Short, had found a business card. An LAPD officer named Joe Bahena. He's a detective assigned to Interpol. And basically it's his job whenever there's a crime committed that the Mexican police need to investigate. He's their liaison officer. I was curious to us why Skyler DeLeon had this business card in his property. That's an interesting clue.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Why is your business card in the home of our suspect? And that's when we first heard the name John Jarvie.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
All John Jarvie needs to do is give Skyler $50,000 in cash. And then they'll go down to Mexico, do this big score.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
and they drive down to Mexico, outside of Ensenada. Except John Jarvie didn't come back.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
The other person they interviewed was Kathleen Harris. Kathleen Harris had no criminal background at all. She was a professional notary, never been in trouble a day in her life.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Tom had outfitted this vessel with everything. Inside was beautiful teak. It was immaculate.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
There's no way Kathleen Harris saw Tom and Jackie Hawks. We had interviewed Kathleen Harris, I want to say, four or five times, and she would not come off her story.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I remember Keith coming out saying, I'm sorry. And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? I go, I think you pushed her. I think we got her. The next call we got was from an attorney representing her saying that she wanted to come in and make a statement.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She'd never met Tom and Jackie Hawks. She was given documents and paid in cash to backdate the documents. And that was one of the most significant breaks we had in the investigation because now we knew Skylar and Jennifer never had that notarized with Tom and Jackie and that that was false.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That was the first domino to fall. Then we started pressuring everybody else because we knew everybody else had lied to us too.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Good morning, Alonzo. Good morning. We just want to know what you know. Alonzo Machain was actually a jailer in the Sioux Beach City Jail where Skyler was serving time, so that's how they meet.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We focused on Alonzo because we thought he would be a weakling too.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He turned himself in and Alonzo Machain took us detail by detail through the conspiracy to murder Tom and Jackie Hawks.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler tells him that he's an international hitman. He gets his contracts out on people and they're all bad people because he'll only kill bad people. He won't kill good people. So he's an assassin with, you know, with a conscience.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
So what does Skyler do to solve that problem? He immediately calls Jennifer and says, you've got to bring Haley down, their one-year-old, and put these people at ease.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That's actually the linchpin in the whole thing. Had it not been for that, Tom and Jackie Hawks would still be alive today.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar realizes if they're going to actually pull this thing off, they need to get a big guy to sign on to this.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
John Fitzgerald Kennedy was an original founding member of the Long Beach Insane Crips. So he became the muscle in this whole scheme.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar and John Kennedy went downstairs with Tom Hawks. Meanwhile, Jackie's in the kitchen, and she hears this ruckus.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He was able to restrain Tom Hawks long enough to get him handcuffed. Meanwhile, it's Alonzo's job to subdue Jackie Hawks.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jackie's here, Alonzo's here, and then that's where Thomas Hawks, Skyler, and Jeff Care are on the bottom. And Jackie hears the commotion, she looks down this way, and this is where Alonzo overpowers her.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
It curves down here to put her at ease. I don't like being down here. It's one of the most poignant things I've ever heard in my career. It's okay, sweetheart. We're going to be together. Where we're going, we're going to be together.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And it looked like somebody went back later and put in an S totally inconsistent with any way she'd ever signed her name. This is a woman who knows that she is going to her death. This is a woman who knows that she is about to be murdered. And she is sending this flare up into the future for somebody to make it right.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler stands up with his smirk, tosses his huge anchor off the side of the boat.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Decides he's going to fish on the way back to Newport Harbor. John F. Kennedy took a beer from the Hawks' fridge.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Once Skylar was arrested, Jennifer was still out of custody. We still really didn't have enough information or evidence against her to prosecute her on much of anything at that point.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We extended immunity to Jennifer. We said, look, Tell us what happened.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They almost completed each other. Jennifer and Skylar, before they met, hadn't committed any crimes that we're aware of really as individuals. But when they met, it was like fire and gasoline.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
The first person to go on trial was Jennifer DeLeon, and I think that she was still operating under the belief that she could blame Skyler for everything that had happened.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler did not make a move without running it by Jennifer. At every significant event during the murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks, he called Jennifer. They get down to Newport Beach, he calls Jennifer. They get on the boat out to sea, he calls Jennifer. They get out where they tied Tom and Jackie Hawks to that anchor begging for their lives, first thing Skyler did is call Jennifer.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That woman was physically not on the boat during the murders, but she was absolutely on the boat with guidance in spirit.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And her whole defense was she was terrified of Skylar. She only went along with it because she was afraid that Skylar might kill her too. And she has a gigantic grin on her face, the look of a woman whose financial problems and debt problems are about to be solved, not somebody that's afraid of the man that she's with.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She was convicted of the murders of Tom and Jackie Hawks and received a sentence of life without possibility of parole.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
During the investigation, there were some points that came up where Schuyler's gender identity was questioned, that he believes he was transgender, and that that was possibly a motive for not only the Jarvee homicide, but the Hawks homicide to facilitate payment for his transgender surgery.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jackie was involved in a motorcycle accident when she was 22 years old and had some internal damage and tragically was unable to have children of her own. When her stepson, Matt, had that baby, she really wanted to play the role of devoted grandmother.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We found actually a receipt where Skylar had paid $500 to a surgeon who specialized in gender reassignment surgery.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
To my surprise, when Skyler's attorney got up, he went to him. large flip chart.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
In my 26-year career as a prosecutor, Skyler DeLeon is the best liar that I've ever seen. For example, he said he was a Marine Corps force recon.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar was convicted of the murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks, and also John Jardy.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar DeLeon and John Fitzgerald Kennedy received the death penalty and are on death row. Jennifer DeLeon received two life sentences in her involvement and she's in prison now.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We decided that a 20-year sentence was appropriate for him, given his cooperation, given his instrumental role in the prosecution of all these other people that were involved in the conspiracy.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Justice was served because these people were found guilty, but it's never a win because Ryan and Matt lost their parents. Mrs. Jarvie lost her son. And now that the governor has taken the death penalty off the table, you know, they're getting three squares a day and living their life. So I have really mixed feelings on that.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He's receiving hormones on the state tax dollars. I think he's petitioned to have the surgery done. But you shouldn't be rewarded for brutally murdering three people so you can get your way. Any chance they get to
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
this case is probably the one of the few that just sheer evil is involved i was a prosecutor for 26 years this is a case i will personally never forget they're evil personified scariest people i've ever met i had a recurring nightmare for years where schuyler is running and i've got to chase him and tackle him and it's uh one of the most gratifying things in my career to have jury
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
make the right call, and not just once, not just twice, but three times, with Jennifer, with Skylar, and with John Kennedy.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
So after this last Catalina cruise, Tom and Jackie had told Jim Hawks and other people that the sale was going to take place in the next few days.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That's what they were hoping to do. They believed that they had found a buyer to the boat, that they had essentially gotten the price that they wanted.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Before you sell a vessel, they take a sea trial. They take the vessel out. It's like a test run in a car.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Rocking and rolling on a well-deserved. She left a voicemail. It basically said that Tom and Jackie were out at sea with the purchaser and that she'd get back to them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Patricia Schutz, who they'd put in charge of essentially paying their bills and taking care of their finances while they were down in Mexico. Because during this time, way harder to deal with that from a foreign country, especially on a boat, which may or may not have internet access.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jeez. Okay, well, this doesn't sound good right now. It became more and more sinister in the fact that nobody heard from them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
This couple, Tom and Jackie Hawks, had lived on their yacht in Newport, were in the process of selling or sold the vessel to this other couple, Skylar and Jennifer DeLeon.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler happens to be a convicted felon. He's on probation. I go, geez. So my first indication, okay, well, this doesn't sound good right now.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
We continued with the investigation and continued to try to have additional conversations with Keyes to learn more.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He told her not to turn the alarm on, that if she tries to do something, he would hear in the police scanner that the police is coming and then he would kill her.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Samantha's talking with him and really trying to engage him in conversation and asking him questions. And she's doing what she should be doing. She's really trying to personalize herself to him. And she's trying to do what she needs to do to get out of that situation.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Yeah, so as soon as I got a phone, I started sending text messages. He needed the phone in order to send the text to Samantha's boyfriend, which would ultimately buy him some time before police are notified that she's missing.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Keys realizes that he does not have her ATM card. And Samantha tells him where it is. And that is when he leaves Samantha and goes back to Samantha's residence and goes into DeWayne's truck and ultimately finds the debit card.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
I was happy when Prosecutor Tyner came in and he allowed us to work on a case and investigate it like we believed it should be.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He's doing all of these things and Samantha is restrained in the shed.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
On June 13, 2017, we attempted to serve a search warrant at Dr. Kaufman's office here.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
I think this is every woman's nightmare of what could happen. And hearing it firsthand from somebody who was doing this was chilling. It was horrifying. It was difficult to listen to.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
That very morning after killing Samantha, he was going on a cruise from New Orleans. He woke up his daughter, got her ready, made sure that their luggage was packed. Then they went to the airport, and then they went to New Orleans, where his girlfriend joined him the next day.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
So this is the house here. The bedroom that April was found was upstairs.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
We knew Dr. Kaufman that there was a point in time that he was inquiring about having her killed.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
We were able to get a witness to cooperate with us this past November. That broke the case.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
When he was on the cruise, he still followed the media attention, and he also saw that there was a big reward fund.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
So he bought an old Polaroid camera in a thrift store. He wanted to make her very much alive. And so he put some makeup on her body because by then there was some discoloration.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
The way that Keyes described what he did to Samantha was, there was no emotion. We're hearing this horrible thing that this girl had to go through, what this young woman had to endure, and he's just telling any old story. And it was during those times he had dismembered Samantha in the shed that he was gradually kind of taking her body out to Matanuska Lake.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He set up a shack and that kind of secured that fishing hole because it looked like just another fishing hole. He used a sled to transport five big garbage bags from his vehicle to that hole in the lake. And he came back on February 21st and February 22nd. I had a parent-teacher conference that day.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
If Keyes had not used that ATM card, I don't know if he would ever have been found. There was just no connection between him and Samantha. But the way he talked about the planning that went into Samantha, it was evident that he had planned this out down to the detail, and it just didn't seem like this was the first time that he had done this.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
I started to wonder very, very early on who else this could have happened to.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
A lot of that evidence would have to be analyzed, like the computer evidence. We were hoping for fingerprints.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He knew that we had his computer, and he figured that having his computer, we'd be able to find big pieces of evidence.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
We knew that Samantha Koenig is dead. We knew that there is no more hope. It's like my heart was sinking. I felt very emotional and, you know, all kinds of emotions running through the head.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
I think it was obviously difficult for all of us.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
So, you know, I'm standing outside here. The bullet hole is, you know, just about shoulder height there in the wall. A big hole? No, it's just a small bullet hole, about the size of a ballpoint ink pen. Nothing about this area here. I locate this spent shell casing, the first spent shell casing.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
Yes, ma'am. A second shell casing. So now, you know, I've got a second shell casing. Why is it here? Where'd it come from? Obviously, there was a second shot fired.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
We spoke to the family. We spoke to her friends. And everybody kept giving us the name Riley Gall because of their relationship, because they had seen the way that Riley had treated her, the way he had talked to her.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
He didn't say a whole lot. He was just kind of in a daze a little bit. He sat over his girlfriend.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
Person dressed all in black, head to toe, even sunglasses, a hoodie on, face covered, goes to Emma's house, tries to get in, scares her.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
When I first met him at his grandpa's, he might have been a grieving boyfriend. When we got into the interview room and sat down, I felt like there's a dark side. He didn't have a whole lot of passion or concern about it.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
In my opinion, he was emotionless. His interview was probably one of the most disconnected. It almost seemed rehearsed, deliberate. And you began to ask him about the gun. He did not have the gun, didn't know where the gun was, and basically didn't have anything to do with it.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
What if I told you someone told us that they saw you with a gun? What would you think about that? I would wonder if he said that and where they saw him with a gun. Alex McCarty said that you showed him a handgun. Where is the gun? I do not know. You understand that for us? Alex has no reason to lie about something like that. Yeah, but I'm telling you, I don't know where it's at.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
He said that you showed him the gun, you told him that you had it, and you told him that you got it from your granddad. I don't have the gun.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
I knew immediately within minutes of sitting down to talk to him, Riley Gall wasn't going to confess to anything. He wasn't going to do it.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
Do you ever remember having a conversation with Noah about getting fingerprints off a gun? How do you get fingerprints off a gun?
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
If they could help us get what they believe to be the murder weapon back, huge, huge piece of information.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
He was taken into custody. He was cooperative, and he didn't say anything.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
There was gloves and trash bags and tennis shoes, the black tape, some of the black clothing.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
I really think that that was the clothes used not only the night of the murder, but I think also that was the clothes that was used the morning of the Man in Black incident.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
When John told us that he had met Jesus and James at the Home Depot, we brought them in just to confirm that John's story was correct.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
You can see on the Home Depot video that they're driving a black Lincoln.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Do you know anything about that would help us in our investigation? Honestly, I've only worked with them for three weeks.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Once Jesus fled and we could not locate him, we needed the public's help.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
We needed Jesus' face out there and let him know that he was a person of interest of killing Laura. If someone could provide us with information, that will help us in locating him.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Rowlett's a bedroom community, a lot of rooftops, a lot of people leave town during the day to work in the city.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Rollitt police released the house on Saturday. And John moved the family right back in the house. You got to remember, Laura's been killed in the kitchen. And the suspect is still at large. And so we found that odd that he never asked for any type of security detail.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
One of the neighbors was there helping clean, and he said, hey, go get her toothbrush. and so they were using her toothbrush to scrub blood out of the grout.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Jim Holland is a legend here in Texas. He got dragged into something that he didn't know f***ing about. I know that. He is an expert at solving cold cases.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
If someone could provide us with information to get him located and returned to Texas.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Jesus had approached multiple people. He said, I'll pay you money if you drive me to kill my boss's wife. And the first and second person turned him down. So I believe that James was brought in at the last minute to drive Jesus to Laura's house to kill her.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
James indicated that John was getting upset with Jesus because it's getting close to the wedding, and I need Laura to be killed before the wedding. Get it done.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
James told us when they were leaving north out of Rowlett that Jesus was throwing his shoes out. He was throwing his hoodie out along the roads. We were able to find one shoe and one hoodie that was still out there flattened out in the grass.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
When we arrived there, the fire department had made entry into the house. And they had backed out of the house because they located a shell casing. We've got one down, shell casing on the floor. We made entry into the house. And began clearing it. Clear.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Jesus had gone out and purchased a car for the sole reason for committing the murder. They brought the new car out, committed the murder, parked the car, got in their black sedan, and drove to the Home Depot. You can see on the Home Depot video that they're driving a black Lincoln.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
The motive here was he wanted to control Laura. He wanted sole custody of the four-year-old daughter. And because he couldn't control Laura, he decided to just eliminate her.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
We located a victim laying face down in the kitchen with a lot of blood around her head. I don't have her information yet.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
After Laura was murdered and John was arrested, then the two older children were returned to their biological fathers.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Inside the master bedroom, there was a safe on the dresser. The door was open, and there was two plastic totes that were turned over on the bed. It didn't look as far as burglary that was interrupted or anything like that. It just didn't look right to me. Can you confirm CID en route? CID is the Criminal Investigations Division, which houses all of our detectives.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
I was pretty certain that this was going to be a major case, and I wanted to get those guys out there as soon as possible.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
I thought I saw an entry wound in her forehead. There was a large police presence and first responder presence at the house. There were several neighbors that started coming out and wanting to know what's going on. As we were securing the scene, I was approached by a male who called me by my first name. In law enforcement, we call each other by last name.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
okay come here come here come here come here but he called me by my first name and kind of took me by surprise and that's when i recognized john macros as the person that was calling me
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
John Makris was a volunteer with the police department in a program called VIPS, and I'd known him over maybe a two-year period. That is all I can tell you, and that's all I know right now. Once I realized it was John's house, that made me start thinking that it was Laura that was down inside the house.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Okay. We determined that there was no forced entry into the house. So that kind of tightens our circle down a little bit.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
We had to look at Brian, but what we found is that he's deaf in one ear and hearing impaired in the other. And if he's laying on his good ear, then that was the reason why he didn't hear the gunshot. Pretty early on, we eliminated Brian as a suspect.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
At Rowlett, we have a program called VIPS and it's Volunteers in Police Service. They wear a modified volunteer uniform and these are citizens of Rowlett. They help us a lot.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
And I told John that I had confirmation that the deceased person was his fiancee, Laura.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
He stated that it was him, the kids, his mother, and the victim's brother, but he never did say the victim's name.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
That was a huge red flag because maybe he knew a lot more what was going on.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
He told us that morning Laura left with the kids to take them to school. He left at that same time with his mom, and he drove to meet his two construction workers, Jesus and James, at a Home Depot in Dallas.
20/20
Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
It cleared John at that point of the investigation. We knew that John had not committed the murder.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
What happens on that type of a call is the homicide unit gets a call, the guys come up here from the unit, as well as our technical investigators.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Yes, this is the train that comes through to Hatchipee. And we're pulling onto a Goodrick Drive now, which is the one way in and one way out.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
It is. It absolutely is. That's why I believe that someone who was purposely had to come here or they were lost.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
As they arrive here, this roll-up door, this large roll-up door, is open. Inside, there is a large work truck. Next to the truck, near the driver's door, there is Robert Lamont. And he's sort of propped up against the truck.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
When I arrived during the walkthrough, I observed he was laying next to a refrigerator. This photograph here is significant. We found that there was blood spatter on the side of the refrigerator door. There was blood starting to pool underneath his body. We did find an expended bullet that was on the ground just above Rob's head.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
And they also found the office inside had been sort of ransacked. And they found drawers pulled from a desk. They found binders and shop manuals and things on the floor.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
So as we begin looking at the crime scene itself and you're finding shot manuals pulled out onto the ground, it's very odd that you can't steal those and trade them. And generally people who commit crimes of murder and things like that are looking for fast money. And we sort of determined that, you know, this looked as though maybe it had been staged.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Yes. When detectives contacted Sabrina Limon and informed her that her husband had been, in fact, murdered, her actions and her demeanor was appropriate. I mean, she was crying.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We began interviewing his family and friends, and they said that he was a great guy. Everyone that we spoke with said that he was just a fantastic person, and he was sort of the husband that every woman would want. I think we got nothing but praise about him from family and friends.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
The following day, during daylight hours, we came out and we began canvassing the area. And upon doing so, we found this video surveillance camera right here. And this is the camera that actually captures the only footage we had for that entire day of anyone within this complex.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
This is the camera that captured the person walking through the complex with an exaggerated limp, walking towards the BNSF location where Rob was found dead.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We thought this would be great. There's the potential this is going to actually have footage of the person who committed this crime.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
why no one had any reason to suspect or know of anyone that wanted robert lamone killed or dead he was well liked by everyone and no one could imagine any reason why someone would want to kill robert
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Each and every single one of us had the overwhelming opinion that the office within this BNSF railroad complex appears that the crime scene had been staged.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
When they asked her about her marriage with Rob, she said everything was great. She said there was no extramarital relationships that she was involved in or she was aware that Rob was involved in. And so at that point in time, she wasn't able to provide us any information with respect to who may have killed Rob.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We discovered that the gun used in this case was a larger caliber, probably a 44 Magnum or a 45 or possibly larger. So we were looking for, in all likelihood, a handgun of larger caliber.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We received a tip that someone went into a local gun store in Tatchby and requested that their firing pin be replaced.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Detectives were hopeful that this was possibly a great lead, and this could possibly be the gun that was actually used in Rob's murder.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We seized the gun in question, had it examined and had it compared to the bullet that was found at the scene, and we found that the two did not match.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
So this is a photograph of the truck that Rob was driving that evening during a shift. We were hopeful initially that we might be able to get some video surveillance from, being that many of the trucks are equipped with cameras. But unfortunately, the cameras aren't running 24-7, and they're only recording when they're actually being operated.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We began canvassing the area. And upon doing so, we found this video surveillance camera right here.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We saw a subject. You couldn't really tell his age. The quality of the video is not the best. And you could see him walking with a limp through the complex. And then towards, once again, where... Down this way. Correct, where the BNSF rail business is located.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
You could tell that it was a man. I think that was fair to say it was a man. But anything other than that, age, ethnicity, no.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
The only video we released was the person in the industrial complex. Some of the tips we got led us to a local transient that people believed could have been potentially involved. And we were able to locate that person and ultimately eliminate them as the suspect.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Video surveillance footage did in fact show Rob Lamone driving on Goodrick Drive.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
On the day in question, there was multiple vehicles that were on Goodrick Drive where Rob Lamone was located. We were able to identify each every person driving those vehicles on that day with the exception of a lone motorist on a motorcycle. The video surveillance captured a subject riding his motorcycle eastbound on Goodrick Drive, and then a short time later, he was leaving Goodrick westbound.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Robert Lamone's friend contacted us and told us that he received a very odd message left on his cellular phone from a subject whom identified as Jonathan Hearn. He thought what was very odd about the voice message is that Jonathan seemed very apologetic for Rob's death.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
This is the first time during the investigation that we heard the name Jonathan Hearn.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Jason told us that Sabrina was possibly involved with a Redlands fireman by the name of Jonathan Hearn.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Jason Pernatine knew Jonathan Hearn due to they're both firefighters and that they used to work with one another, especially when Jonathan was a paramedic on an ambulance crew. So they ran calls together.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
He knew that Jonathan Hearn actually had possibly a dating or romantic relationship with Sabrina Limon outside of Robert Limon. It was odd and suspicious in the fact that Jonathan called Jason and apologized to him for having this relationship with Sabrina outside of Rob's knowledge.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Rob's dead, and this is just odd. This is just very odd behavior from this person.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Jonathan Hearn was originally not on our radar whatsoever. When Jason came to us and told us about Sabrina and Jonathan's possible relationship, we immediately started looking into Jonathan to find out if we could make any sort of connection or a link to Rob.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
So it was told to us that there was the potential that him and his wife had an open relationship, meaning the non-traditional marriage with other people within their small group of friends.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We learned that there was possible infatuation that Jonathan had with Sabrina. Jason Bernatine's wife, Kelly, actually called us and told us that Jonathan Hearn was spending quite a bit of time with Sabrina Limon at her home. And Kelly found this very odd.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
And we began to do some follow-up investigation into this Jonathan Hearn and found that he had a motorcycle registered to him.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
So from various convenience stores, we began pulling video surveillance footage. And we did find one at the pilot station at a place commonly referred to as Four Corners. Thank you.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
She was just steadfast. I have no involvement in this. And she didn't really give us much.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
Detectives in this case believe that Sabrina and Jonathan did conspire to kill Rob. We just had a little bit more work to do in order to allow the district attorney's office to provide us with a warrant to re-arrest Sabrina.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
We received a phone call from the district attorney's office and said they were contacted by Clayton Campbell, indicating that Jonathan Hearn did in fact wish to testify and provide information.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
The way she was acting towards us was, I can't believe this. Basically, how dare you? How dare you come and arrest me? I'm not involved in this. I didn't do anything.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
This looked as though maybe it had been staged. Some drawers were pulled out. Other drawers were not pulled out. It screamed as being a staged crime scene.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
The Tatchpee Loop was engineered to assist trains in not going too fast as they're coming down the mountains from Mojave into Tatchpee.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
When they're stopped, it's not uncommon for someone to break into the trains and steal the contents of its cargo.
20/20
Unholy Matrimony
It's on Goodrich Drive, which is a one-way in and a one-way out street. So if you're going to go there, that's going to either be you have a destination or you're lost.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We fast forward to 2012. We're going over the evidence again. The fingerprint that they had found on the phone was in the suspect's blood, and it was still in viable condition to obtain a DNA profile from that. And we enter it into CODIS, and we think, that's going to give us a hit.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Right. There was no forced entry. So our speculation was that it was somebody that she knew or somebody that presented a position of authority that could have garnered that trust to get inside the apartment. All of these questions lasted for years and years. Yes. Yes.
20/20
The Code Breakers
In Kathy's case, we had DNA that was in CODIS, and we had not gotten a match. We'd exhausted the fingerprints, and these things which normally get us a hit did not. So I honestly felt like the genetic genealogy was our only chance for solving this case.
20/20
The Code Breakers
They said, we'll get you a lead back. We're not going to guarantee that it's the lead, but we'll get you a lead.
20/20
The Code Breakers
It was either it was someone that she knew or someone that presented themselves as an officer. It was almost like whispered in the hallways, it could be one of our own.
20/20
The Code Breakers
She was supposed to have plans with her sister and family for lunch. When she didn't respond by phone call, they went by her house and found that her car was still there. Got inside the house with a key.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Mike is so distressed, he immediately runs to a neighboring apartment because he can't bring himself to call the police. Mike does go back into the apartment to find her daughter.
20/20
The Code Breakers
There was a 12-year-old boy and his dad that were staying with some friends that were right next door to Catherine Edwards' townhome. He heard somebody run down the stairs and then a door slam. And a little while later, a car sped off with loud music. There were some other neighbors that heard some loud banging.
20/20
The Code Breakers
It kind of sent a panic through the community. You know, if this can happen to somebody in a really quiet part of town, could it happen to them kind of thing.
20/20
The Code Breakers
But when Brandon presented Othram to me right then and there, I'm like, let's make this happen.
20/20
The Code Breakers
The profilers really believed that whoever it was would return and return to her gravesite. And for years, that was part of our initial rookie training program was, this is Kathy Schwartz's gravesite. If you see somebody at that gravesite, you need to stop and identify them because they could be a prime suspect in the murder.
20/20
The Code Breakers
I remember sitting at the table one night and getting really frustrated trying to map all this out. And she's like, let me help.
20/20
The Code Breakers
I can remember dozing off one night and I wake up and she's got lines going here and lines going there.
20/20
The Code Breakers
And the first one we came across, he was the right age. He went to the same high school with our victim.
20/20
The Code Breakers
There were a lot of similarities in that case that mimicked Katherine Edwards' case. The victim's hands were bound behind her back. She was sexually assaulted.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Correct. They shipped that down here to me. And then once I went through it, I coordinated with our lab here in Texas to see what items would be best to test. And they compared it to the evidence that we had.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We theorize that the assault started in the kitchen because in the kitchen there was passive blood drops on the floor. And then the smearing goes up the stairway to the upstairs bedroom.
20/20
The Code Breakers
I'm not going to say anything. After he makes it outside, you know, that's when we execute the arrest warrant and arrested him.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We got the report back, and they believed it was a family that had lived in Three Rivers. The DNA was male, so this narrowed it down to four brothers. The youngest brother, Barry, and then there was the oldest was Sonny Waters, then John Waters, and then Robert Waters.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Robert Waters was married, had a couple of children, and had been living in Beaufort, South Carolina for quite some time. He was a local business owner and had a plumbing business.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Good, how are you? How can we help you? I'm Sam Smulkin from Three Rivers PD. This is Todd Peters from Michigan State Police. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Can we talk for just a couple minutes? Sure. All right.
20/20
The Code Breakers
And one of the issues we had run into is the Beaufort Police Department did not have the fingerprint live scan machine. So we had to use the traditional ink and paper.
20/20
The Code Breakers
All right. I wanted to tell you, we did submit the print that we did for me earlier. It did match to the one at the crime scene. So at this time, you are under arrest for the murder of Cassie Schwartz. OK? OK. It really surprised me. He did not really react. I feel like he knew when we showed up that morning that the game was up.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Well, let me ask you the obvious question. What about Rob Waters? He came there one time. He came there one time? One time. Okay, do you remember, like, was that close to December? I think so. He knew Robbie Waters had visited the apartment about a month before the murder. We hadn't seen him since grade school. Yeah. Okay, so he just somehow figured out that you guys were living in Riverside.
20/20
The Code Breakers
The plans were already in place. He had waived extradition, so he knew that he was going to be brought back to Michigan.
20/20
The Code Breakers
He had some material that they'd given him in the jail, and it was some devotionals, and the parts that he had ripped out talked about forgiveness and asking for forgiveness.
20/20
The Code Breakers
In the bedroom where Kathy was found is a phone on the bed. The phone cord was cut. but on the phone there was Kathy's fingerprints and then there was also an unknown fingerprint in blood. In 88, obviously, DNA was in its infancy.
20/20
The Code Breakers
You can know the case inside out, but until you see somebody testify and see the raw emotion that's going on, that was raw, raw emotion that they relived on the stand.
20/20
The Code Breakers
There was polygraph examinations that were done with. We were able to verify that he was at work in Sturgis all day long, and there was no way he could have came back to Three Rivers to do it.
20/20
The Code Breakers
So the police department actually rented the apartment for a month after the crime, just so that we could return and continue to look for clues and process. This is one of the first cases where they deployed alternative light sources.
20/20
The Code Breakers
They pick him up for questioning. Troy Schultes admitted that he was the one that wrote on the refrigerator and on the wall in the apartment, but he never admitted to writing it on her thigh.
20/20
The Code Breakers
You know, you look at that and you think, well, that's somebody leaving a calling card behind that they were there.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We had the fingerprints, but we also had a sample of blood that was left behind. We believe because Kathy fought back that whoever the killer was had sustained an injury, and Troy's blood type did not match.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We had fingerprinted and footprinted so many individuals that had been living in Three Rivers at that time, and none of them were a match.
20/20
Family Lies?
My name is Scott McGregor. In 2013, I was a detective for the Windsor Police Department. Mr. Troklos was found in a bedroom on the upper part of the house, in his bed. We found him that he had been shot three times.
20/20
Family Lies?
You obviously start looking for evidence, and when you can't find spent shell casings, once again you go back to whoever did this, you know, took the time to retrieve those casings and not leave evidence behind. That kind of tells us that the person planned this out, knew to cover their steps, which ultimately makes our investigation harder.
20/20
Family Lies?
When we start any murder investigation, we want to do a timeline. We want to start trying to find out who was with John,
20/20
Family Lies?
We learned that John, the day before, the last person to see him was his grandson, Nathan Carman. We learned that through talking to Nathan, talking to We have to treat everyone as a possible suspect. Family, associates, people who worked in the office, neighbors, anything, anyone could have done this.
20/20
Family Lies?
She was an acquaintance of John, who was going to the casino, staying overnight. The night of the homicide, she confirmed that she had talked to John, but she was kind of quickly dismissed as being involved.
20/20
Family Lies?
He had had an alibi that night. It was confirmed. I think he was actually out of the state at the time. I think we found him in Rhode Island.
20/20
Family Lies?
Windsor, Connecticut, a typical small town. Pretty nice community. You know, not a lot of crime.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
In Delta. Uh-huh. And somebody tried to torch our car. So the car actually got torched in Delta?
20/20
Run, Run, Run
What was the relationship between Alan and Alan Jr. three to four months ago? Same. Same distance?
20/20
Run, Run, Run
He's been completely out of character drastically for the last, since January. It's odd for my dad. You've seen him change his character. And maybe not so much see him change his character, but through her, I can't even get to him.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
I'm like, well, Dad, is your home phone hooked up? He's like, no. I'm like, well, how does anybody get a hold of you? Well, Mary doesn't want you to bother me.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
I don't think he had a clue. But he said he couldn't even stand up. He was so dizzy.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
She's being investigated for a homicide. You don't ever know that she doesn't have a gun. If she sees you and she's scared, knows what's going on, it's a real game out there at that point.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
I was a special agent with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement here in the Jacksonville field office. I got a call from Asa County Sheriff's detectives, and they were investigating a homicide in Colorado.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
They handcuffed her and set her right on the ground. She had a blank expression on her face, like a little bit angry looking almost.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
He was much less involved in my life. He was much more distant. I called him, and when I didn't get to his phone, I called Miriam's phone.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
Thank you for coming down and helping us get to the bottom of this. We appreciate it. It's Miriam, right?
20/20
Run, Run, Run
Did he have any enemies, any problems with any of his contracting work going on, any disputes? Would he share that with you if he did?
20/20
The After Show: Unholy Matrimony
Sure, so absolutely. The following day, during daylight hours, we came out and began canvassing the area. And upon doing so, we found this video surveillance camera right here. And this is the camera that actually captured the person walking through the complex with an exaggerated limp, walking towards the BNSF. where Rob was found dead.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
Well, I think that Dan Osborne felt that he probably owed the Macs some gratitude. He was an employee for the Mac family. Whether it's poor judgment or not, or whether it's fear or not, he chose to allow Darren to see his daughter. Based on Osborne's story, police rushed to Darren's condo.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
As we looked around the property a little bit closer, we found three droplets of blood in the driveway near the garage door.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
It refers to ending the problem, and then it also referred to certain weapons that he would need to fulfill those plans.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
The shooter's vehicle pulled into the parking garage, drove up to the fifth floor. Moments later, the vehicle made a three-point turn and backed in so that the rear of the vehicle was facing the Mills Lane Justice Center. I think he knew what he set out to do on June 12, and he followed his plan piece by piece.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
Well, I believe it was a calculated explosion of violence. We know that the judge was shot at about 11.05. The video surveillance camera shows the Ford Explorer's rear hatch being closed at 11.05, and the vehicle flees the parking garage immediately.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
It would take some skill, but Darren Mack has an extensive history in hunting, and I believe for somebody with his firearms background, this would be a very reasonable shot.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
The shooter entered the parking garage shortly after 10.30 on June 12th. That vehicle was captured on the video surveillance system inside of the parking garage, which is how we know what time the vehicle arrived and left.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
They conducted several interviews and canvases. However, they were unable to ultimately determine if it was Darren Mack that was at that resort.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
What prompted Darren Mack to surrender? The only thing that I can think is that he was obsessed with exposing what he believed were Judge Weller's injustices.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
A pair of shoes with some blood spatter were in the suitcase. Some other clothing with what appeared to be blood stains were in the suitcase.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
We know that the judge was shot at about 11.05 and the vehicle flees the parking garage immediately.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
The dispatch call came out of a sniper-style shooting at the courthouse shortly after 11-06.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
Heavily armed police quickly made their way through nearby buildings. You're looking up, you're checking buildings. We could at least narrow down the area the shot came from because the bullet went through a glass window.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
may have realized that that was going to be the last time he'd see his daughter, at least as a free man.
48 Hours
The Cyanide Killer
Are the calcium pills still at home? I'm thinking there's something more here than meets the eye. Would you mind if I followed you back to your home and collected those? No, that'd be great. Not at all? Okay.
48 Hours
The Cyanide Killer
They tell each other they love each other. There are trips taken together. There are flowers sent.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
There was confirmatory tests. There were some spots found on the carpet for human blood.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
This was the home of Ramona Croteen and Jeffrey Croteen. And this is the house where we believe Ramona Croteen was killed.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
We have a trail of Ramona's blood from the master bedroom, down the stairs, through the laundry room, and into the garage.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
Everything that Croteen felt that there was blood on, he got either rid of it or changed it, painted it, or threw it out.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
What forensic scientists said, it came from a spontaneous hit where blood shot out.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
Well, Mel Twining then should have said something because he never said nothing. Sue Ziegler's never said nothing. We at Brook Park never heard of that call. Was that Ramona Croteen? No, I believe Ramona Croteen was already dead at that time.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
At that point, we did believe there was a robbery. We did not believe that Ramona Crote arrived home.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
The more we got to know Ramona Croteen's background, it made us more determined to find out who did this. Detective Timothy Robinson, case investigator for the Ramona Croteen death.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
We started hearing the tidbits. We heard about the headboard, and I was like, wow, that's weird.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
That's it. Basically, he refused to cooperate with the police. He never even asked us about his wife.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
Starting to alter things here. He's changing carpet. We had heard he painted the bedrooms. We're gonna check it out. We're curious now too.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
We learned that when they went into that bedroom, there was a six foot section, four foot by six foot cut out and missing, carpet and padding.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Through the years, they focused on Tim Masters. The Hetrick Homicide was opened and closed, went cold. It was Lieutenant Broderick that reopened the case.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
This was a single-minded investigation. There was one man after one suspect.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
She moved her hand and she heard it go zzzz. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Sie war so nah dran.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
There was evidence at the crime scene that eliminated Tim Masters and it was not told to the jury.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Ich habe Broderick im Haus gesprochen, weil wir aus der Meister-Bedung geschaut haben.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Als ich fand, dass sie ihn zerstören werden, habe ich es verloren.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Yes. I wanted to watch every one of the tapes seized. Because I thought she could have been there.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Er wurde von dem, was von Hetrick entfernt wurde, fotografiert.
48 Hours
Heartbreak in Williamsport
We thought it was unusual that he would have that, so we photographed it.
48 Hours
Heartbreak in Williamsport
As a remembrance. Basically, don't forget. You get personally involved in it.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
I can't think of anything more horrific than a mother using her child. It's... I don't know.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler had recruited a gang member from Long Beach named John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He's with a gang called Insane Crips.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
They were good, loyal friends and they loved each other. You could look up love in the dictionary and you'd see these two people there.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ja, das war es. Sie lebten dort. Es ist fast so, als ob sie für einen kurzen Trip weggegangen wären und zurückgekommen wären. Alles ist in Ordnung, so wie es war, als sie daran lebten. Das ist das Hauptgebäude, wo Thomas und Jackie schliefen.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Jackie hört zuerst eine Verbrechung in der Stadthalle. Und jetzt sieht sie Thomas Hawkes getötet von John Fitzgerald Kennedy und von Skyler de Leon.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Alonso weiß, dass er seinen Teil machen muss. Er beginnt, Jackie zu überwachen, indem er den Taser anzieht. Er überwacht diese arme Frau und legt sie in Hände. Skyler und John Fitzgerald Kennedy verletzten Thomas Hawks und hängten ihn an. Und dann kamen Jacky Hawks nach unten mit Thomas Hawks und sie standen auf ihrem Bett.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler sagte Alonzo, dass er sich ein bisschen Datteln geben würde. Skyler instruierte ihn, Datteln über den Mund und die Augen zu geben. Und er machte das.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Die Papiere sind festgelegt, sie haben einen Inkblatt mitgebracht. Jackie weint natürlich immer noch. Sie kann sich nicht helfen und das ist verständlich. Sie entfernen einen Handtuch und ein wenig von der Tape, damit sie sehen kann, dass der Instruktor ihren Namen signiert. Sie rollen ihre Fingerprinte. Dann beginnt Skyler, verschiedene Fragen zu ihren Accounts zu stellen.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Tom and Jackie had so much fun on the boat, I'm jealous of what they were able to do with that thing. They got to swim with dolphins, whales, pull into ports of call, go to little bars where mariachi bands are playing. They truly had the dream life.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Und er verabschiedet sich von all dem Papier, rollt seine Fingerprinte und gibt ihm die Informationen, die er beantragt hat.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler came up and punched in coordinates, which sent him out to Santa Catalina.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
He hears that chain come, there's no doubt. Because when Skyler gets behind him and starts to, he actually hooks the anchor to the rope. So now this anchor is now attached to these two poor people.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Er wusste sein Bestand, und ich glaube, das ist der Grund, warum er das letzte Mal zurückgegriffen hat. Und er macht im Grunde einen Reverse-Mule-Kick mit seinem Bein und schießt Skyler. Er schießt ihn so stark, dass Skyler sich von seinen Beinen öffnet und auf seine Rückseite landet. John Fitzgerald Kennedy ist dort, wo du bist. Er sieht das, und JFK ist ein großer Mann.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Und er levelt ihn, er schießt ihn. Es schießt Thomas Hawks aus, weil der Schuss so stark und so violent ist.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Talking about this money that he had to launder, he was very at ease telling us this stuff.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
We've got surveillance videos of her smiling ear to ear, you know, trying to basically steal these people's money.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Er hat mich einfach immer gefragt, mit wem ich verhaftet werde. Als ich ihm gesagt habe, dass es Geldlöschung war, konnte ich diesen Eindruck von Erleichterung sehen.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
We found their video camera. The Hawks' video camera. Yes. We found Jackie's laptop computer and then the batteries to Thomas and Jackie's Sprint Nextel phones. On December 16th we get a call from San Miguel Village, Mexico, saying that the Hawks' vehicle is there.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Und dann haben wir herausgefunden, dass das Fahrzeug eine Woche vorher von Skyler verlassen wurde. Er folgte ihm in einem anderen Auto mit seiner Frau Jennifer.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ich habe Matt angerufen und gesagt, ein Boot dieser Größe wird sicherlich zwei Anker haben. Geht mit den Jungs auf die Boote, zählt die Anker, die da sind.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
He is the only one in this investigation that actually had a conscience. And it was that guilty conscience eating at him.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler was looking for the anchor to push them over. Machain also told police about the muscle for the murder.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Es ist fast schwer, die Wahrheit zu erzählen. Nachdem ich zurückblicke, was er tun konnte, erschreckt er mich. Ich wache immer noch auf.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
They tie him up, he called Jennifer. The time they were killed, he made a call to Jennifer. When they were turning back after throwing these poor people off a boat, he made a call to Jennifer.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ich hoffe auf den Todspenalty. Wenn jemand einen Todspenalty verdient, ist es Skyler DeLeon.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Seitdem das Ganze angefangen hat, schaue ich jeden Tag in den Ozean und sage Hi zu Tom und Jackie. Jeden Tag. Ich mache einen Punkt, wo ich sage Hallo zu ihnen beide.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ich habe die Hebe-Tubes auf diesem Boot. Ich fühle mich einfach nicht zufrieden. Man beginnt zu denken, nur versucht sich zu vorstellen, was sie erleben. Und es ist zu verrückt. Es ist. Die Boote sind unterwegs. Es ist Nachtzeit. Es ist kalt. Sie wissen nicht, was passiert.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Es macht mich verrückt. Es macht mich so wütend. Und wenn man darüber nachdenkt, muss man sich das aus dem Kopf nehmen, weil es so schrecklich ist.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
It was a muddy day. It was raining. And there was no evidence of any type of a splash mark on the shoes. There was no mud on the shoes. And each one of the shoes were tied with the shoelaces tied on the outside of the shoe as if somebody had put the shoes on Mr. Dorotek.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
I walked into the room and I had seen blood on the ceiling and I saw some blood across the comforter on the bed.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
He had blood on his face. There was blood near the back of his head. And I could see that there was a rope around his neck. What did that say to you? It was obvious to me that it was a homicide.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
How severely? He had extensive fractures to the skull, had lost a tremendous amount of blood, and strangulation was a contributing factor as to the cause of death as well as the bludgeoning.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
There was only one person, in my opinion, that could have done this to Mr. Dorotek, and that was his wife, Jane Dorotek.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
There was no question in our mind that this assault occurred in the master bedroom.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
It appeared to be the exact same type of rope that was found around his neck.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
$3,000, that's a large amount of money, especially what's for her. I mean, she doesn't spend money like that. And it just didn't make sense.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
Mr. Guidry was concerned about Stephanie being missing. Whenever we put forth the question, if Wayne Jr. did something to her in the wildlife management area, what would he have done with her? There was a pause and he said, you know, Wayne did mention this hole that he found out in the middle of the woods.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
Yeah, sure did. He was obviously really concerned about Stephanie. He didn't know where she could be. Did you believe him? Yeah, I did.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
Well, see, we know that that's not true. We knew that something had happened.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
There were a lot of inconsistencies. You know what happened, so you need to tell us
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We all know what's going to happen when someone gets with a baby. They get frustrated. Happens to everybody.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We think in this situation, the other babies are screaming, crying, whatever. You're taking care of them by yourself. You have Ben in your hands. He starts acting up. And you get mad at him and you throw him on the floor.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Yeah. Where did his head hit on the floor?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
A lot of people might think I made that call.
48 Hours
A Campus Mystery Unraveled
It was just an amazing amount of material. One computer had, I believe, five hard drives in it.
48 Hours
Who's There?
When you read it, it's kind of a no-brainer. The suspects are identified. These people did it, and now we've got to prove it.
48 Hours
Who's There?
If she's laying in bed, her head should be here, right? Right. There should be a void. There should be a spot. Where there's no blood? Where there's no blood.
48 Hours
Who's There?
You would think, you would see... at least some blood up in this general area up here toward the top of the nightgown.
48 Hours
Who's There?
If she truly was knocked unconscious for that period of time, she wouldn't have remembered anything.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This is our shot. We wanted to catch her cold. Are you nervous? Yeah, I'm nervous.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This is an upscale neighborhood, a very nice house. She's living a pretty good life here.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Everyone thought that Melinda Rash was a perfect person, a great neighbor, just doing everything right.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Steve and I both thought that she's probably going to say, hey, I left that back in Olathe, you're going to have to talk to my attorneys, something along those lines, but she didn't.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She says that she was awakened by these horrifying sounds of someone striking her husband. She sees a shadowy figure, and she runs to the bathroom.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This is definitely not the same story. What happened to the two black guys that broke in demanding bank keys? What happened to, I think you hit him too hard, you may have killed him? None of that.
48 Hours
Who's There?
I accused her. I said, I know you killed him. Either you killed him or he did. What did she say? Well, I assure you, it wasn't me.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She wanted to please us. She didn't want her neighbors to be talked to about this. I don't think she ever shared with anybody about what happened in 1982.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She said they were friends at first, were friends. Well, later on, as their relationship blossomed, she said that there became an emotional bond between the two of them.
48 Hours
Who's There?
I just don't think she wanted to go there yet. She knew if she said that, then that would implicate her further.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This was a place where people felt that they could get away from the city, raise a family, and live a peaceful life. I think when this happened, it hit home. The people involved in this murder are members of the Nazarene Church and go to the college there. So this kind of rocked their community a lot. I'm Bill Wall. I'm a detective with the Olathe, Kansas Police Department.
48 Hours
Who's There?
There are a lot of murders, but this is intriguing. It's got a bit of a sex appeal to it. We got religion. We got a lover's triangle. We got money. And we felt that it was a case that could be solved. It was 19 years old when we opened it up. When I'm reading through this case file, I think that we got a shot. I mean, eventually, you got to go knock on the door.
48 Hours
Who's There?
First time I heard about that case was maybe in the early 90s. Bill Wall was a young patrol officer at the time. It was always kind of a case that had never been solved, and it was kind of a legend throughout the department.
48 Hours
Who's There?
The crime lab came down, and they had some time, and they wanted to use their DNA expertise. You got any old cold cases? We had one. I'll grab this. You want that?
48 Hours
Who's There?
For us, this is uncharted territory. I mean, we really didn't have a lot of experience in opening up cold cases.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Blood splattered everywhere. It is on pillows, sheets. It is on a comforter, a carpet, the nightstand next to him. It's everywhere. I mean, I think this is a classic case of an overkill.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She's awakened by these sounds of someone beating her husband. And then all of a sudden, she's pulled out of bed and taken downstairs. She hears one intruder say to the next, I think you hit him too hard, you may have killed him.
48 Hours
Who's There?
I'm sure some of those detectives back then were thinking, hey, this is not right. There is something more here.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Some questions came up, and in particular, a question about this person, Mark Mangelsdorf.
48 Hours
Who's There?
There's a lot of people that remember this case that were members of the church, members of our community. They all thought that the suspects had been identified. Why aren't we moving forward?
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
And she had also had a raincoat pulled up over her face to protect her from the elements, very unlike the other cases.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
She was found fully clothed. She was not a victim of any blunt force trauma.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
She gets into the vehicle with him, expecting to head west. And we've got a certain number of hours where Jane's basically missing. In the early morning hours, March 21, 1969, Jane's body was discovered in the Denton Road Cemetery.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
We had no idea that this person even existed. I've never been involved in a case this encompassing. This is the turtleneck shirt that Jane Mixer was wearing. This is her jumper dress. This case got to me.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
This case had kind of fallen through the cracks. I just didn't feel that we could give up on it. This was tied around her neck as a ligature.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
This is all the evidence that was collected during the investigation.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
These are the pantyhose that were on her body. We took these to the lab. The forensic scientists took the cuttings from the areas that they located with the possible staining and did the DNA analysis.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
It's a picture of the body lying inside the fenced area of the cemetery, covered with a yellow raincoat.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
Jane's case was just too different. The fact that she was placed in that cemetery with her belongings, very unlike the other cases.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
I certainly felt that someone had gotten away with murdering Jane.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
When we arrived there, it was 10.30 in the morning and it was a cold, crisp morning.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
We saw what appeared to be a body of a woman lying underneath some clothing on top of a grave. We first lifted off the uppermost piece of clothing, which was the raincoat. You could very quickly see that she'd been shot in the head. And then around her neck, we could see a nylon hose, so she'd been strangled also.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
Well, it probably grabbed my attention because it was a singular round spot of blood dried. I didn't know what it meant, so I thought, well, we'll find out later.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
How long can you have young women being killed before the pressures become so great because you as the police can't solve this?
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
One of the first women admitted to the University of Michigan Law School. Very promising future ahead of her, and her life was stolen.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
The real hope was that there'd be some physical evidence. There'd be a fingerprint. There'd be something that we'd come up with that would match up with him. And that just didn't happen.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
What it really comes down to is I'm accountable to God and I'm accountable to Peggy Hetrick.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Well, I believe that I followed the evidence, okay? And the evidence pointed to Tim Masters.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Well, you can find DNA evidence, and it may have an innocent explanation.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
of wanting to hang on to information not knowing its future use has helped tim masters because had i not done that it wouldn't have been able available to be tested peggy hetrick's clothes would have been destroyed everything everything would have been destroyed that may not mean much to tim masters struggling to put together a new life he's got some unlikely new friends
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Hey, if there's evidence out there, let's see it, but there's nobody that's come to me, and I haven't seen yet anybody that can controvert all these facts that point to his guilt.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
That's a position and a strategy they took without a doubt. And it wasn't? Oh, absolutely not. You know, there was no effort to pinpoint just Tim Masters on this case.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
I made detailed, thorough notes, detailed, thorough police reports. My notes were represented inside those police reports.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Well, I mean, obviously the defense is free to make that argument.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
There was no effort to pinpoint just Tim Masters on this case. It just doesn't add up that there was anything other than to just do the best job we could with a case that could have remained unsolved.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Back in 1977, Tony Sirico was an upcoming actor and he knew some of the same people that Krista knew. We know that after Krista was killed, Tony Sirico was sent to her residence to check on the welfare and watch over her roommate for a few days and to make sure that she was okay. According to the roommate, Tony Sirico removed some tapes out of Krista's room never to be seen again.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
That's Tony Sirico right there with the blood, but that's part of a film they were making.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Not exactly. Mr. Sirico told us at first that he didn't even remember the victim. He didn't really know Krista and that he didn't even remember that she had been killed. And then his memory got a little bit better that, yeah, I think I had heard about her being killed, but I didn't really know her that well. I just met her in passing.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We started getting to the point of where he was on that day and asked him those type of questions, and the interview was abruptly stopped by his attorney. And we explained to Mr. Sirico also that he was not, was not a suspect in this investigation. He was considered a witness and someone that we were trying to glean information from.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We don't know if there may have been extortion. A lot of people have told us that there's a diary that's missing.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We believe that he didn't want her reputation soiled, didn't want the information out there about her surreptitiously recording people or even her sexual activities.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
This is another gentleman. We haven't been able to locate. Can't talk to him because he's dead.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
She had a lifestyle that was provocative. She had a lot of upscale friends that were famous, some of them. And then she also had a lot of friends that were on the seedy side of life, if you will, street people.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
It's very interesting to go back and talk to these people because people can't remember what their lies were. They can remember what the truth is.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
The neighborhood that we responded to in 1977 was a pretty upscale neighborhood. I was the lead detective on the case. I think we came in from this direction. We drove in this way.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We found out that she was a party girl. She had come from a party with a girlfriend. She was headed over to see her agent, Sandy Smith. The house looks the same now as it did then, doesn't it? Exactly. This is me right here.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Bringing back some memories? Well, yeah. Yeah. She was bleeding quite profusely there. You could see that she had numerous stab wounds in the chest. Our thoughts then, we had a rage killing, that somebody was really upset with this girl.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Well, the way she was attacked really sticks out. It was violent, a lot of passion involved. She was stabbed 22 times.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He was very flamboyant, very strange. He would do certain things like wearing nothing but a cowboy hat and a gun belt with a six gun on it. And that's the way he walked around the house.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He's a violent kind of guy. He's known to carry guns and knives. We spoke to his ex-wife, deathly afraid of him. Said that he would threaten her.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He was in that other circle of friends, what we call the dark side of her life, the street people, the drug dealers, that would come to these parties.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
They did question Rudy, yes. They questioned him. He denied any involvement. Rudy was the kind of guy that would brag about things that maybe he didn't do just to get some notoriety and to boost his standing with people.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Was he serious? We don't know because the person he bragged to is deceased and so is Rudy, so we can't talk to either one of them anymore.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We've identified people that she was involved with who had other girlfriends, and those girlfriends found out about Christa. There were a couple other females that we believe that she was involved with sexually that were upset because she would be with men.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We were told originally that they were boyfriend, girlfriend. Some come back and say maybe casual dating. Some come back and say, well, that they were a pretty heavy item. I believe that Debbie had a more serious commitment to Blair than Blair did to Debbie.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We interviewed Blair Aronson and he explained to us that he and Krista had spent the night together, were in bed and they got up, were sitting on the edge of the bed and happened to look over and saw Debbie looking through the window waving at him.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Blair and Krista were startled, obviously, by seeing her outside the window, but they laughed about it and she ran away.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
And apparently she was very upset about it at that time. We don't know if she was removed by Frankie Crocker or by Krista herself.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
I don't think I would characterize it as that. I think when somebody is in a violent rage, I think their gender doesn't matter.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
It's obvious to us that she put up quite a fight. And a lot of times in that situation, you're going to find skin cells or blood or something from the other person under the fingernails.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Well, we are requesting from people that we interview, at times we're requesting oral swabs.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We did collect DNA from Debbie Danilo, and it was not her DNA that was under the fingernails.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Tom and I are in agreement. Debbie Danilo is much farther down on the scale as a person of interest in this case now.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Patty and Krista had a relationship, according to more than one person. They had a close sexual relationship and a professional relationship. At some point, they had a falling out with one another, it looks like, according to these people, and was it serious enough for a murder? We don't know that, but we'd like to talk to Patty about that.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Hopefully she's home. Hopefully we can get an interview and maybe collect a sample of her DNA.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
She was in Southern California. We know that. But for some reason, she's denying ever being there in her life. I got a feeling we'll be back to talk to her again. I really do.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Sal Mineo's killer is the same killer that killed Krista Helm. In my own mind, I'm so sure of that, I bet the deed to my house that he is A1 number one suspect.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
The method of operation, the area of operation, was so similar to Sal Mineo's killing. It was almost identical.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
I don't even know what he looked like. They never saw him. Never got the chance to talk to him.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
I think this case has affected me personally more than any I worked. And you're not supposed to get involved. You're supposed to put everything behind and you're neutral. You're just doing a job. But with me anyway, I couldn't put this one to bed.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He has been in and out of jail since this occurred. He's been arrested for other crimes. We believe we have an idea where he is living. We believe that he's not that far away, and we're going to go talk to him.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
The crime scene where Krista Helm was murdered in 1977, she had left a party in West Hollywood and she was attacked and stabbed numerous times. She was a very good looking girl.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Oh, you're doing fine. She was not against posing in seductive type photos.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Well, actually, you try and go back in time yourself. I mean, you try and go back and look at it the way it looked that night. When we're talking about is in the middle to late 70s. I know back then it was a lot of the free love, a lot of the... Sex. Sex, drugs. Drugs. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We don't know if there may have been extortion or a thought of extortion. That scared me a lot.
48 Hours
The Imposter
I'm sick of this bull . I've been dealing with this all week. Tell me who you are. Clark Rockefeller. No, you told me you are not Clark Rockefeller. Clark Rockefeller doesn't exist.
48 Hours
The Imposter
Who are you? I can't tell you. Why? I can't tell you. Because you've done something that somebody's looking for you for, right?
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
I think Escondido Police Department acted within the scope of their responsibilities, absolutely.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
I think not being there. So I don't know what they were thinking. So I'm not going to guess.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
on Richard Tewitt and the three boys. I think the pendulum can swing either way.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
Some people just don't want to believe that 14- or 15-year-old kids are capable of killing.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
He says, I'm looking for the girl. And I said, well, there's no girl here. You have no business here. You just need to get out of here.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
Why would you hypothesize about a situation like that, especially to a seasoned homicide investigator? Why would you do that?
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
Aaron is a very methodical young man. He knows what he says and why he says it, and he's very, very specific. Aaron tells you that Michael had said he really wants to kill his sister, and Aaron says, I'll help you do it.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
The video starts expiring. These DVRs, it's a constant. You got to get this evidence before it disappears.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
If we were just investing in Christy and Hilda's alone, very difficult.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Police have arrested three men in connection with the deaths of a model and her friend last month.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Kind of played with the rotation and it worked out exceedingly well.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Pierce says, I hope Ansbach's not up there telling them I gave them drugs and wine.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Got a call at home, apparent overdose. Christy, she was deceased. Hilda was still on life support at that time. I give as much information as I can to the detectives. Jan had put a number of things out on social media, and it spread like wildfire. People recognized this guy right away, and they were urged to call us.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Christy's lying on the couch. It looks like she's on her way to becoming unconscious.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
So he got on his stand and he did his best to try to say everybody was wrong and he was right.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He was apparently the only one telling the truth at the entire trial.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
So Osborne's role was to help get rid of the bodies, first and foremost. He helped carry the girls at first. He helped formulate the plan in terms of what they're going to tell the security guards.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
For a fresh case, it's all on you. There's no... No one else is gonna solve this thing for you. It's you and your partner. That's it.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
I don't think I breathed at all until I heard a guilty on every single one.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
This must be adding up to something that sounds very sketchy to you. Very sketchy, but then you still have to figure out if an actual crime occurred.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
They never give their names, never leave their phone numbers, license plates, anything like that.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
You don't want to form an opinion prior to getting there, but you are kind of mulling over the evidence. You're thinking about it. You're thinking about what questions you want to ask.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
There was a light on in the upstairs where the two men live. So I just went up, knocked on the door. Immediately, the lights go out. You identify yourself? Yes, completely. LAPD, open the door, and then just complete silence.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
So I immediately get a lie. Do you leave? No, I interview Mr. Osborne.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He changes his stories numerous times. At first, there's no girls had been at that location whatsoever. I tell him on the interview, I listen, I know you're lying. It's extremely obvious. You're very nervous.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Two beds had been stripped. There was a washing machine that had been recently used. It was still wet. Is there anything else that stands out to you? There was a safe in his room with baggies, which was indicative of narcotics. He said they're for crafts, for arts and crafts.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He has a pattern. His first step is trying to find his victim. So that could be through a dating app, through online listings, or meeting them at bars or events. When he picks his victim, he goes to step two, which is bragging about himself.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He needed to introduce himself as a producer, as a doctor, all these different things. He's none of these things. I think he might have been an intern at the time or something at a production company.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
After they take this drink, he goes to step four, which is the sexual assault.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
This makes the case extremely hard. I told Jan early on that this was going to be a near impossible case to prove. Yeah, at first, it's a whodunit. It just became what actually happened. And that's what was the difficulty of this case.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Following that was glass break activations. We believe that's when the bullets started breaking the glass in the house. That's when Ted died. That's when the shots were being fired.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
We were going to do gunshot residue tests on their hands. We then separated them. And at that time, Jackie broke down hysterically. And what did you make of it? That was a major red flag for me. We knew there was something more to this at that point.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Once we get into the apartment, we're going through it. We're finding ammunition.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
One of the shooters advances towards the master bedroom where Corey is.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
We ultimately see cell phone usage in Austin on February 28th, which is just two days before Ted ends up getting killed.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And Jackie's response to the text message was, do they want 50K or not? And she says, we can't afford to pay half before.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
There was also communication between Spencer and Nicholas, where Nicholas was trying to hire him to kill a family.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Spencer didn't want to go along with it, but Nick still pitched the idea.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And this woman still remembered his name. Sergeant, what are the odds of a hit like this on the identity?
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
I know why you're here. That kid who hired somebody to kill his jewelry store parents.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Theodore Shaughnessy was shot dead in his Austin area home by an intruder. Cory Shaughnessy shot back at the intruder and wasn't hurt.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Detective Moore and I interviewed him. He did admit that he had met Nick. He gave us a lot of good information.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Is she innocent? Absolutely not. No, she knew. She knew what he was trying to do. She could have stopped this at any time. I tried to stop him.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Off of the murder of you and Ted? Yes. I'm not defending her by any degree.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Who took more action? It's Nick. You take Nick out of this, you don't have the incident. You take Jackie out?
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Our job ended at the arrest, and there's not a single step further that we can take it.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
It looked as though there was a home invasion and a homeowner was killed.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
He was shot in the head, the back, the thigh, and the buttocks.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Somebody took the screen off, set it next to the window outside,
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
There's a .40 caliber gun box in that drawer. It's missing out of the box.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Our goal was to just try to get as much information as possible.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
She's the only person in the house, and we have her husband who has been shot to death. We know that she owns firearms, so it's obviously an option for us.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
I tell him it looks like somebody came into the home and shot your dad to death. And how did he absorb that news? He asked me, did he suffer? Was that an odd question? It definitely struck me as odd, yes.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Nick and Jackie continuously tried to talk to the media. We asked them to stop and to stay in the scene.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
him going to that side of the house to look specifically at that window, which you can't see from just the front of the house. So for him to know that that was even involved, he did not have that information.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
This was early morning hours. Two shooters enter the Shaughnessy home. They quietly move through the home.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Sometimes people will get information from crosstalk with detectives or law enforcement. And so I didn't automatically
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They had it on a speakerphone, so Scott and Mary Kate, the daughter, were both heard on the 911 call.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
I would describe him as emotionless. He never acted as though Suzanne was even his wife. He talked about what a good manager she was and how she kept their business flowing. But he never once mentioned that she was a good mother or that he loved her.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They were both there. There was a fight. There was a fight, and he killed his wife.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yes, and he started stressing out and started sweating, and he became more defensive.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
There was one in particular where she had some pretty strong words towards Scott.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
She was making some kind of noise just from the compressions, but I think she was already dead.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Suzanne apparently was one of the few women who was involved in this forum. She kind of threw out that if Donald Trump won the presidential nomination that she would post a picture of her bare breasts.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yes. If it's something that's building up in him, some kind of anger or jealousy about what his wife's doing online without him.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We get notified by our sergeant to come out to a house and begin a death investigation.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He wasn't able to collect because that death certificate was ruled as a homicide.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Every day that went by, he felt a little bit more at ease, I think.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They met through Facebook. He was infatuated with her.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Well, as soon as you go into the front door, the stairwell was right off to your left. Suzanne was right there. She had a blanket covering her body.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We could see the other things laying around, like this stainless steel soup pot, a purse, an empty medication bottle.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Mary Catherine testified that she saw the dogs pulling at the scarf around her neck, and none of that came up during trial. the day we interviewed her the first time.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Well, I know that she was still close with her father.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
And then the scarf was a little bit further down away from her. The deputy coroner, during her preliminary body exam of Suzanne, the injuries weren't consistent with somebody falling down the stairs.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
I think the first day, there was mention of dogs maybe pulling on a scarf.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We didn't get the impression that it was any kind of violent pulling.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He had plenty of time from when he applied pressure to Suzanne's neck till she died to stop what he was doing. He still did it. I was a little disappointed that it was a second degree
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
I'd like to think so. Probably all of us would like to think so, that we could just figure it out as soon as we walk in Sherlock Holmes style.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
To us, he was a victim. We were going to a house where two kids and a husband just lost their wife and mother.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Is it a steep stairway? Yeah, it's pretty high. I believe it was 13 and a half feet from the floor to the top of the stairs.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Suzanne had injuries to pretty much her whole body. Her face was all bruised up. Her back was bruised up. Both arms and legs had bruising and abrasions.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They definitely stood out, especially that steel puck. It almost looked like it was placed there. It wasn't upside down or leaning against anything. We had to figure out why those things were there.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He was just kind of going with the flow. How cooperative was he? Oh, very. Everything we asked of him, he gave us. He signed a consent form that gave us permission to search his house.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Suzanne had a history of migraines. They were typically debilitating, requiring a dark room, quiet, and bed rest. And she had been suffering from a migraine that weekend.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Sometimes she carried around a bowl in order to have it near her bedside in case she threw up in the middle of the night.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
According to Scott, everything was fine. They had a good relationship.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Saturday night, she was on the couch. Eric came down to see her, check on her, make sure she was okay.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It was Mary Catherine's idea for Suzanne to spend the night in that room. It was clean, according to Mary Catherine, and done up like a little hotel suite for Suzanne to convalesce in there.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
And what did he tell you he heard? Well, he heard loud voices arguing, but he didn't describe hearing any physical confrontation.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Well, again, that's one more piece of data that we're going to collect. It doesn't mean one way or the other that it was a murder, but that's definitely an avenue that we would have to pursue.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
That was Mary Catherine's scarf. It was found in the same room as Suzanne's body. But the scarf wasn't on her body. When we arrived, it was not. Mary Catherine told us that she had to remove the scarf, and she did that not to impede mom's breathing.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Especially with the ligature mark across her neck, it just didn't make sense.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Could have caught on a banister. Sure, I suppose so, but we didn't have any evidence of that.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
No, nobody described hearing a fall down the stairs or if Suzanne had been carrying that stainless steel pot. No one heard that bounce down the stairs or land on the tile floor. There was no evidence on the stairs of someone going down, like broken ballast or anything like that.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It was a warm day, even though it was November. But when we spoke with Scott and during the whole time we were in the house doing our investigation, he was wearing a beanie over his head. And he said that he slept with it because it was cold.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Tallaga was a new community. It's kind of considered a sleepy little town. Nice place to work, nice place to live.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We discovered that Scott had some injuries. He had a cut up here on his forehead. and on his arm he had a bruise.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He didn't know where it came from. He was unaware of it.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It didn't really make sense. Why would Suzanne take the time to make the bed in the middle of the night?
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Once you arrest somebody, that starts processes that you can't stop. Besides the blood in the bedroom, we didn't really have enough evidence of a fight occurring. So at the end of the day, there wasn't enough probable cause legally to arrest him.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It's not something they want to rush into. It's not something they want to make a rash judgment on. The doctor wanted to examine the whole case more clearly.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
None of their immediate neighbors knew anything about the family. Eventually we contacted whoever we could out of their contact list to try and find out more.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're not going anywhere until we get the facts here.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
The reason that we were called in in this incident is because Ben's skull was fractured. What we need to know right now is if this was done by accident, Or did somebody intentionally hurt him?
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're talking a skull fracture. There's sometimes accidents happen and I mean, they're unavoidable.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
You didn't come to work that day with the intent of hurting anybody.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
There's no way, no way that that would have caused that traumatic of an injury. All you need to do is tell us the truth and we're done.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Show us how angry you were and show us what happened, and let's just get this over with and move on.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
I'm going to tell you something right now. This is very specific. This is going to leave a specific mark.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We think in this situation the other babies are screaming, crying.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
He starts acting up and you get mad at him and you throw him on the floor. You throw on the floor? Yeah.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're on the phone right now. We're trying to get this done as quickly as possible.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
I have a good idea that you've seen what happened or you were involved with what happened because you were the only one in the room at the onset of this.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
You're there. It's not like there were 50 people in that room with you.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're not going anywhere until we get the facts here.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
He starts acting up, and you get mad at him, and you throw him on the floor. You throw him on the floor?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Samuel, how are you? I'm all right. My name is Cindy. I'm a detective here, and this is my partner.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
I was looking and I found what I think are horseshoes and pants. I didn't touch anything. I made sure not to touch anything.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
There's also like just a weird thing in the water, but I don't, it doesn't look like there's anything under it.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
That's it. See, that's not how people disappear. Getting out of a car and walking away is not how people disappear. People disappear by getting picked up by somebody they've never met before. So what do you think happened to her?
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
I'm just coming to you today. No polygraph or nothing, okay? It's just you and me. And overnight, I'm thinking and I'm thinking and I'm thinking... How do you get yourself in this situation?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
Police start asking about the private area in the back of the store, the little kitchenette where staff hang out on break, make coffee, that sort of thing.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
Is there anybody talking to each other or like any signs of problems?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
So, I mean, the purpose is like, if we do find anything, we're going to get your DNA so that way we can eliminate it. So we don't submit it to a national database.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Yes, you did, yeah. It was self-inflicted. They're perfectly parallel. They're superficial scratches. Your pants were pulled down when this happened. The cuts don't match up with the cuts in your pants. It's obvious. It's a classic case of self-inflicted wounds. I know about the thefts. I know that Jaina found clothing in your bag. No, she didn't. And that you'd been suspected of stealing.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Okay, then who did kill her? Because there were not two guys in there.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Was there someone else with you that forced you back into the store for whatever reason? No. Is that what happened?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
That you were walking down to the metro and somebody accosted you and forced you into the store and forced you to call Jaina to get her back to rob him? No. Okay. Then who killed her?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
And then you put the shoes back in there. I think that, like, you need help.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
And I'm very, very concerned for you. I think you need help. These guys give you the keys... tell you to go move her car. Okay? A cop goes by and you don't flag him down. You get in the car and you drive off and park it and then come back so that they can kill you. Come on. Come on.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Yes, I did. No. Nobody in the world is going to believe this story. No one. He doesn't believe it. My boss doesn't believe it. When I tell your brother and your sister, they ain't going to believe it. And your mother and your father, they're going to say, bullshit. This did not happen. I'll tell you something else. Chris already doesn't believe it.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Remember when we were over the house on Mondays? And he said, I'm going to talk to you. And we went outside. You know what he told us? Or what he asked us? Why is this girl dead and my sister is still alive? What kind of sense does that make? I don't know. Okay. He knows that something's shaky.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
When I talk to Chris and with Marissa and we start getting into your background, we're going to probably find out that there are some psychological or emotional problems. I don't have any problems. Well, you do now.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Why don't you then step by step by step walk me through it, okay? You go back to the store, okay? And were they standing by the front door waiting for you or in the back or what?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
You're walking from the store. to the car, and you see a cop car going by, and you said that, like, you passed a couple of people.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Okay. And you got in the car and you drove off. Okay. People would probably ask, well, why didn't you just keep on going and not go back, you know?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Okay. But then couldn't you, like, go get a cop or something like that and tell them that these guys are in the store?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Did they say why they wanted you to move the car? I didn't say why. Because, I mean, it doesn't make sense.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
What about your forehead? Had that started bleeding yet, or did that happen after you got back to the store? It did. I had blood on my face. Okay. And how many people do you think that you passed?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
When you were walking to the car or after you had parked the car, walking back? Okay. Did they kind of look at you funny or anything like that? You know, like, whoa, what's she doing all bloody? What did they say?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
They took at you funny, like, again, you know, like, it is Bethesda, black girl with blood all over.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Brittany, comes a point sometimes when We have to break down and get everything off of our chests, okay? I know this has really been rough for you as far as like, I'm sure that you have been going absolutely nuts for these past couple of days as far as what the cops have found out, what the cops have figured out.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Oh, I can only imagine. You know, you have got to be going absolutely nuts with worry, with fear. You got to be. You got to be. And you got to tell us what really happened.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Now, what you've done is you've concocted an incredible story that doesn't make any doggone sense.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Listen to me, okay? I've been doing this. I've been a cop for over 30 years. I've been working homicide for damn near 25 years. And I've seen a lot of stuff. And I've heard a lot of tales. And I've seen a lot of people, good and bad. And sometimes people get into situations way over their heads. And it's like, what the hell am I going to do now? You know, how do I explain this?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
What the hell am I going to do now? I guess we can start off with the injuries that you have. They're self-inflicted. Yeah, they're self-inflicted. You did this to yourself.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
I do remember him crying when he started to shed some tears over the fact that how could anyone possibly think that he could hurt anyone, let alone his best friend, Ron Platt.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
She was very, very calm, very determined, and stood there and gave it like it was. And we knew what she could say. We knew what she'd already told us. And it was a matter of her getting that out in court.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
The foreman stands up and the clerk asks, you know, have you got to a verdict that you're all agreed on? Yes, we have.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
And then it's like kind of everything's crossed and then the foreman says guilty and that's it. Yeah. You can't whoop and holler, can you? But you can inside. They all pretty stiff upper lip and all, isn't it? But yeah, we didn't get a party that night. We weren't going to let that go without a party.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
When you think about it logically, how we've got from there to there is unbelievable. Unbelievable. And it truly is. If you really think about it, you just think, how did we do that? And I keep going on about luck, but, you know, yeah, everything we touched turned to gold.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
I think she'd seen the light, hadn't she? She'd been under his spell for so many years. Once that spell was broken and he was taken away from her... I think then she became aware of how wrong everything was and how manipulative he was. And yeah, I think she made that conscious decision to step out from him and say, look, this is it. This is the end of me being ruled by him.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
We were all delighted with how she managed to stand up to it. Just the fact that she had the courage to stand up and fight against their father after what he put her through, I thought it was fabulous.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
She was able to really display to the court the motive behind it, the fact that he saw this as an opportunity. She kind of explained to the jury, the court, how they benefited him. And the jury, I think, were able to see and form, yeah, that is a good motive to kind of, to get them out the country. And Ron couldn't explain to the court. And Elaine, she was able to speak on Ron's behalf.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
and explain to the court exactly why Ron had to be disposed of, if you like. And it was quite compelling, yeah.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
He's listening to this scenario all coming together, and he's probably thinking at that point, I really am in trouble here.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
On the morning of the 31st, I came to work at Chelmsford, but I took a slight detour, quite a detour actually, and came this way, driving down from Danbury into Wood and Water to see if there was any sign of life at the house.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
came up here. I think I turned into the lane, saw the car was on the drive and backed out again and looked for somewhere to sit and wait. The trees were bare and I got a reasonable view.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
I saw a taxi going down the lane, going past them, and he went down and then came back and stopped somewhere between the two. From this angle, I couldn't see which house he'd stopped in front of. Couldn't see which house he'd actually gone to.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
So I had to take a chance that he'd actually picked up at Little London Farmhouse rather than Little London House.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
Lots of things were going through my mind at this point. Have I done the right thing? But having committed to it, you've got to see these things through.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
At this point, I know there's a passenger in the taxi, but I can't see who it is. And I'm taking the chance that it is our man.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
They said that the armed response vehicle was near, was making its way to me. I do remember pulling out of here sharply to stay close to them. You can lose them very quickly.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
Do you remember me, Mr. Davis? Oh, yes. Yes, I remember you. I'm arresting you on suspicion of the murder of Ronald Platt.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia, like a lot of 18-year-old girls, she wanted to be independent, and that led to a lot of altercations at home as her home life was trying to balance her independence with her being a responsible young adult. And things got a little bit tumultuous with her mother, and eventually she left the house.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jared grew up in this rural community of Fairburn, and he knew a lot of people in the area.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
At some point, he entered military school, and he intended to go into the Coast Guard.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We ended up putting out a bolo for De'Asia.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia said she had just legitimately just asked for a ride from Ms. Abad.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I think Detective Jackson pretty quickly, summarily dismissed the plausibility of that version of events. He says, I'm gonna leave the room and I'm gonna come back and give you a second bite of the apple.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He came in to talk to the police proactively, and he just says, saw her on the news, don't know anything else. I'm not involved in this.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He denies essentially any involvement or even having seen her recently.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia told us, she was looking for a way out of living on the street and this repeated cycle of sleeping in the night watchman's car, spending all day at the shopping center, and then doing it all over again. Jared told her, you bring the car to me and I will take care of the rest.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia said that she pulled out an airsoft pistol that Jared had given her for the purpose of stealing a car or for protection.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Meanwhile, while this is going on, Jared has emerged from the wood line, and he smashed the driver's glass window. So while he beats the glass with a baseball bat, the victim crawls over the passenger seat and ends up outside the car.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She was begging and pleading for her life. She talked about Christmas just being a few days away and the fact that she had a young granddaughter, and she just wanted to make it to Christmas to see her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They could have left her there. Maybe someone would have driven by and seen and been able to render aid. Instead, they put her body in the trunk of her own car.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He asked his dispatcher to try to contact the owner of the vehicle to see if perhaps the vehicle was stolen overnight and she just hadn't woken up to discover it yet.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We do believe that De'Asia, you know, actively participated in the violence that night and certainly helped load Tony Abad's body into the trunk of her own car. So she was more than just like a getaway driver.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Even if they intended to just carjack Miss Abad, the fact that they so egregiously and aggressively bludgeoned her, that speaks to a level of violence that leaves only one conclusion, that the moment that they arrived on that road, they intended to kill her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The following day, a warrant is issued for Jared's arrest, and the police are looking for him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We really can't go to trial solely alone on the accusation of a co-conspirator.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I think there's some variation in what De'Asia thought was going to happen and what Jared planned to do. But I do think that De'Asia was 100% along for the ride once that decision was made.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
This was Christmas Eve, and once they located that address, the police went there and he was taken into custody without incident.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So it's interesting that he came in to talk to the police proactively, and then the day following, he's arrested, and now he's mum. He's got nothing to say to the police.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
What we found was a significant amount of communication with DeAsia on December 21st, which was the night of the murder. They spoke somewhere between FaceTime calls and voice calls, somewhere in the neighborhood of six and a half hours on December 21st. So a significant amount of time.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So for Jared to come in after the fact and say, you know, this is just someone that I have a casual relationship with, I don't know her well, the phone records are telling a vastly different story.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Arguably the most important evidence that we found in Jared's phone was when we looked at the web history.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
When I overlaid Jared's web search history with the Fulton County Police CAD record for the discovery of Ms. Abad's car, what we found was in the minutes that preceded the discovery of her body, he was searching for essentially a woman found in the trunk of a car in Fairburn.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
My best analysis when it comes to motive of Jared Kemp and De'Asia Page in this murder I believe that DeAsia was an immature, impressionable young lady that was homeless and desperate. And she was doing partly what she wanted to do and part what others had convinced her to do.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I believe that when Jared was waiting in that wood line on Church Street after directing DeAsia to drive down that dirt road with a victim in a car, he was driven by a motivation to kill.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She had significant injuries to her head and her face, so she was severely beaten to death.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There was a significant amount of blood inside the trunk of the car to possibly suggest that she still could have been alive inside the trunk of that car before she was discovered.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We discovered her body in the trunk of the car.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
It's just kind of an off-the-beaten-path type of roadway. And as you drive down that road, you kind of feel like you're driving towards a dead end or the middle of nowhere.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
This is four days before Christmas. It's cold outside. This is the South Atlanta winter, and you have a young lady asking for help getting a ride. I'm sure when Toni walked out of her job that night, she really just saw the face of one of her children when they were 18, and they needed help.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The video surveillance showed this young lady pacing back and forth in front of the two entrances and exits to the supermarket.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The video surveillance showed this young lady pacing back and forth.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Even when you can't see, you know where the 9 and the 1 go on the telephone. That didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The medical examiner's report indicated that she was killed from a crushing blow to the throat, which crushed larynx. She can no longer breathe, swallow. She is gasping and choking. It's a horrible way to die.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So many times there's a family violence situation, a sudden rage, a fight, something happens and it turns into a homicide. And then the killer tries to set up the scene to match his story. We believe that Jack Gray possibly was involved in it. To obtain some of this evidence, I was required to write search warrants.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
And in the search warrant, I was required to name a suspect and why we wanted the warrant. And in these affidavits, I named, of course, Jack Coswell.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Karen Koslow had a trust fund that was considerable, around $4 million.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They had at some point in time gone to some counseling.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
It was going to be a considerable investment.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Paula and Christy and Salter came to the office with their attorney and we talked to them.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She had no idea about whether it would have been a robbery or something, but she suspected that because everybody loved her dad and her stepmom.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Brian and Christy were just members of the same social circle. They knew each other from young people that they hung out with and such.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There was never a point in time when we had decided to arrest Jack Koslow. There was never a point in time where anybody said, we need to arrest him, let's get a warrant to arrest him. He was a suspicious person that we had to clear.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He said, I really need to talk to you. I know what happened. I asked him where he was, and he gave me an address. And I said, I'll be right there. And I jumped in the car and drove out there and met him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He sat there with me and told me about Jeffrey Dillingham, how this guy had come to him and confess to him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Paul Carrillo gave us a backpack, which contained several items. We got Jack Koslow's wallet, which had his ID and business card, a bulletproof vest.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He had gone into the house with Brian Salter.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jeffrey Dillingham, I was curious about his criminal history and found out very quickly he'd never been arrested for anything. Salter, that guy was so weak acting, I didn't think that guy could do anything to anybody.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They were supposed to kill both Karen and Jack Koslow. When I questioned him about how he hit Karen, as she was on the floor, she rolled over on her side, and at one point, he struck her in the throat with the crowbar, which is consistent with what the medical examiner's report showed.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
At some point in time, Brian Salter then takes the knife they find and uses it to cut Jack's throat and Karen Koslow's throat so severely it almost severs your head. He talked about these things with seemingly no remorse.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I personally arrested both of them. I put Brian in the car with me and another detective transporting Christie from that location straight up to our homicide office.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I received a call about four o'clock in the morning and I was told that there was a Signal 11 stabbing.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She could draw out a map, which she did, of the interior of the residence, show them exactly where they slipped.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They were concerned that Jack had firearms there in the house that, according to Christy, kept them up there in the bedroom.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jeffrey Dillingham has the pry bar, and he starts striking both Jack and Karen Koslow.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I went in and sat down with her and I told her, you need to tell me the truth, everything you know.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Christy Koslow admitted she hated Karen and came to hate her dad. She became tearful and stated that She resented Karen Koslow for taking her father away from her mother Paula.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
During the course of the investigation, I had acquired a copy of Karen Koslow's will. Karen Koslow had expressly eliminated Christy Koslow from receiving any money in the event of her death. So this plan to kill and to murder her parents was really for nothing. Jack was both angry and sad about
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He did say that Jack was articulate in talking to him and telling him. Some people came into the house, and I think Karen may be dead.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Christy being involved in this, he was furious that she could do something like this and arrange this and take his wife away and destroy his life like she had done.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We proceeded up the stairs to the master bedroom. The victim's body was the first thing that my eyes went to. She was partially clothed and lying face down on the floor at the foot of the bed.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He worked his way up to a management position and was very well liked.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Christy was in the care of Paula, but visited and stayed with Jack and Karen a lot. She grew into her teens. She went to a nice school, was paid for by Jack.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jack was quite bloody. His face was covered in blood, his hair matted with blood, blood on his hands. He was swollen. He seemed very groggy, maybe somewhat even incoherent. He was transported to Terrace Hospital.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We noticed bloody handprints on the back of her t-shirt indicating that maybe she had been moved. Somebody with bloody hands had grabbed her and either rolled her over or drug her or moved her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
When the body was turned over, we could see this horrendous cut to the throat. Her throat was cut severely to the point that I remember thinking it almost decapitated her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We saw a buck knife lying on the floor. It was open still, had a very ornate handle, and was covered in blood. We were obviously suspicious that that might be one of the murder weapons.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There was a rack in there that held several firearms. And drawers that were open, shotgun shells on the floor, blood everywhere in there. Obviously, somebody was going through and looking for something in this closet.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The gate had been pried open. It appeared to be a pry bar because you could see the points of the pry bar embedded into the wood. And there was a little piece of what looked like a latex glove that had been torn off. We saw that the back door had also been pried open using what looked like the same tool.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So there was more going on than just a robbery or home invasion. The entire crime scene was very confusing.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jack had been talking, but he seemed to be in a confused state about what had happened. He seems very groggy and very confused.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
hands were swollen. There were little angular marks that looked to me and everybody else remarkably like the night watch.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There were some that believed that this was a staged crime scene.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He went to bed, and then was later awakened back. What he described was noise downstairs.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jack said these two men kicked open the door and That's when they ordered him down on the floor and carrying down on the floor.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They started beating him with a heavy object.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He checked on Karen and couldn't get her to wake up. He grabbed the phone. and was trying to dial 911, but because of all the blood in his eyes, he couldn't see.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
There's a figure dressed all in black that runs very quickly up the driveway.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
The murder happened at 2.30, and they realized that that fit into the timeline of when the van was gone, when the murder happened, and when the van returned to the workplace.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
When they look at the footage, it's not Bridget that's leaving the building, it's Catherine who's leaving the building, and she's using Bridget's key card.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
By tracking the pings, they know that she left work shortly after 1230.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
During the confrontation call, Bridget expresses her great concern about the fact that the police think that she may have been in on this. And Catherine doesn't seem too concerned.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
Police called in the Arizona Department of Child Safety. They took custody of the little baby.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
There's a figure dressed all in black that runs very quickly up the driveway.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
I'm thinking, and now you're deleting messages. So how do we know what's going on? Are you involved now?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We get the cell phone and notice that he had made several phone calls to this one number.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
None of the GPS coordinates put him anywhere near where she lived.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We also learned that some of her text messages had been deleted, was a little suspicious at first.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The timeline and text messages that she was getting from him matched exactly with what she had told us.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We know that one of the last messages that were sent says he's with Tiffany. When we get the cell phone information from his cell phone carrier, we had noticed that he had made several phone calls to this one number, and that phone number came back to a Tiffany. We made contact with her and learned her side of the story.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We had asked her, you know, one of the last messages that were sent says he's with Tiffany. She's like, I don't really know why. It wasn't me that sent that message.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
She actually lived down in Naples, a little far away, and none of the GPS coordinates put him anywhere near where Tiffany lived. There was no connection, we believe what she was saying, and we didn't have anything to say differently at this point.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
following the breadcrumbs that they're leaving behind from the GPS locations. They lead us to this house.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
That's when mom had told us about the girlfriend and gave us her information. Mom's talking and we're looking into both of them. I'm sending all this information to our analyst. Hey, start researching this person because this is his girlfriend and see what we can get on her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
As we're talking with Nathan's mom, I'm really intrigued by this area by the side of the house. It's a freshly dug dirt area. It just looked very awkward and very out of place. Now I'm like, okay, so now this is really involved. Now we've really got something here.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The most important evidence that we found in the house was the shovels and wheelbarrow that had dirt still on them.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The dirt on the shovels and the wheelbarrow matched the dirt that was found in the dug-up area and also the same dirt that was found inside Matthew's vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Nathan's mom calls him and says, I have two deputies here. They want to meet with you and talk to you. You're meeting with them tonight.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Aria kept saying because of her fear for herself and her unborn child and for Nathan's safety because this guy pulled the gun out and said, I'm going to kill you. She felt like this was the only safe thing that she could do.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
I'm listening to her tell this story. There was no, like, sense of remorse or guilt whatsoever. I thought, there's no way that this is the true story.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Nathan pretty much gives us the same story to the details of the song being played. And then Matthew points the gun at him and he punches the gun out of his hand. And he said, like, all of a sudden, I just heard this, like, gunshot.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
They said after they had killed him, they decided to dig this grave right next to the house, which is the area that I had noticed earlier. Where was everybody when you were digging the hole? His parents were sleeping. Was it too hard over there and that's why you didn't finish that?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
It didn't really work out. It was, like, not deep enough, and it was very, very obvious. They ended up going back out there that next night, and then they decided, we need to move this.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
It wasn't until like later we decided to burn him. Once they buried him, they were like searching how to get rid of the body. And so they decide, oh, well, it says burn the body. So a couple of days later, they go out there and unbury him again and light his body on fire.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
They're sitting there realizing how bad burning flesh smells. So they ended up, you know, putting out the fire and then burying him again. At this point, we didn't know where Matthew was. So we'd asked Aria if she'd be willing to show us.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Right there? And that's where you guys dug out? And then you guys placed him in there? So you're saying that his body was burned a little bit?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Once we had booked her in, that's when they had made her do a pregnancy test and learned that she wasn't actually pregnant. She was never pregnant. I think it was just part of her story that she wanted to fabricate to make it seem like she was so scared for her life.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The gun was not found originally. They ended up interviewing Nate again later on after he'd already been sentenced to prison. And he told them they tossed the gun into the river and the dive team went out there and ended up finding the gun out there in the river. The attorney that we worked with for the state, you know, basically presented all this to Aria.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Still to this day, try to ask myself, like, what really happened? I wish we had Matthew's side, but unfortunately we don't.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The lady that called in, she said basically she walks this same path every day. After several days of seeing the vehicle there, she thought maybe it was stolen. Deputies were sent to kind of figure out what was going on with it.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
There's this hole in the windshield with some tape over it. After looking at it, they realize that there's a bullet hole in the windshield.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
You could see blood all over inside the vehicle. There's a crime that's obviously occurred. Is it Matthew? Is he the victim or is he the suspect here? And who does all this blood belong to?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
So at this point, they're doing fingerprints, photographing all over the vehicle, inside and outside of it. We noticed blood on the back bumper of the vehicle and drag marks on the back bumper. I'm like, okay, somebody's in there.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
What I could see on the bumper definitely shows that somebody had been placed in the vehicle or drug out of the vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We opened it just to make sure. However, Matthew was not located in the vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The blood that was located both inside the trunk area, inside the passenger compartment, and what I could see on the bumper definitely shows that somebody had been killed inside that vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
You could see blood all over inside the vehicle. Somebody had been killed inside that vehicle. Who does all this blood belong to?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
That's what we had, but it was an accident, and that was really all. I was pulled away for different investigations.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
There was a small life insurance policy, I say small, like $25,000 or something, but nothing of any real major importance.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Murray said, as far as they were concerned, Elaine Whitty had went on an extended vacation. She was traveling alone and was going to the West Coast and making various stops in between. She had no schedule or anything like that. Nobody could pinpoint where she was.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, hello, Marie, remember me? I'm back. And she almost fainted.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It was Marie Witte that made the call and it went to Beverly Shores Police Department.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Skip Pierce came to me and said, we've got this lady. Her name's Malaine Whitty. She's missing. No one had seen her. No one had talked to her. No one knew where she was.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I began to realize that I had dealt with these people in the past and that these were the same people her son had tripped and shot her husband in the head. You know, I think we've got a problem.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It could have well been just an accidental shooting. But again, when the gun went off, it shot downward into the head, which made it really much more suspicious. If he had tripped, the bullet would have come in more of a direct angle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, hello, Marie, remember me? I'm back. And she almost fainted. I said, Marie, I'm here about Elaine Puddy. We're trying to find her. And she's on a trip. And she stammered and stuttered. And I said, can we come in and sit down?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
She just simply said, if I hear from her, I'll let you know. But my concern is Marie didn't have a clue where she was gone to. She's been gone two or three months here, and that's not normal.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I asked her where Marie was. Where's Marie staying now? She said, well, she and Butch are going out to California and see Eric.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
My worst nightmares were coming true. From my standpoint as an investigator, there was no question in my mind that Elaine was not with us anymore, that she was gone.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marcy appears to be a very nice older lady. What I want to do is put pressure on Marcy. You can tell that she knew more. I kept contact with her, and the more I talked to her, the more I could get from her. And I finally said, what's going on? And I said, I'll go after anyone who was involved in this whole thing, and I'll lock them up.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It was on a Friday. I called and talked to her and she said, Boyd, Elaine's dead. And I said, okay, I'll be right over.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, well, where's she at? Where's the body? She says, there is no body. She said, we've got rid of the body.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Paul had been apparently asleep on the couch when he was shot in the head.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marie Witte's mother, Marcy O'Donnell, was saying Marie and Butch had got rid of the body, had cut it up and had dismembered it and got rid of the body.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marcy O'Donnell told us that Marie was writing these checks and authoring the checks and copying Elaine's signature.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It is a mammoth landfill for the entire city of San Diego. And that's where all the refuse comes in.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
They had tried to kill her by first giving her drugs and keeping her in a room that was cold with the windows open, hoping that she would die naturally.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Elaine was on to the fact that Marie was forging her checks.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
First, they started out giving him rat poison. He gets sick, and they go to hospital. Of course, he goes to hospital. He gets better. So then they went and got arsenic to bleed. That just made him have an awful headache, and he'd sleep on the couch.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
She said, you got to do it now. Eric was given a choice, either strangle him or to shoot him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
He had to do it now because mom's going to really be mad now when she comes home and he didn't do it. And that's when he took the gun and shot his dad.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Essentially, Marie had told our investigator that her son Eric had a gun, had a .357 Magnum, and it had tripped. And it had went off and shot her husband in the head.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
No one had seen her. No one had talked to her. No one knew where she was.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I began to realize that I had dealt with these people in the past. It went from a missing persons to something more serious.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It was not a well-kept house at all, by any stretch of the imagination. It wasn't impossible for what they said to have happened, someone tripping, so you keep an open mind.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It appeared he'd been shot in the top of the head, in sort of a downward angle. And if he had tripped, the bullet would have come in more of a direct angle as opposed to a downward angle. I didn't think it was an accident. I didn't know what it was yet.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marie didn't want me talking to Eric. She said, I think we need an attorney. And I said, that's your priority. That's fine. People do that, but it's a little flag waving there that says this is not normal.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
His dad was asleep on the couch. He came in the room and talked to his dad about the gun, how it worked. He said he had tripped on the rug and that he had fallen forward and this has happened. The gun accidentally went off and shot him in the head.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
My question to him was, why are you taking a gun, loaded gun, to your dad? And he said that he wanted to see about the safety mechanism or something. I said, did you have the gun cocked? And he said he didn't think so. And that was a big red flag to me because it takes quite a bit of pull to be able to shoot a double action .357. There is a trigger pull to it.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
But at that point in time, the attorney stopped me from questioning him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
She would answer a question if I asked her something, but other than that, she didn't volunteer anything. She tried to be very quiet around me. I told Marie and told the attorney, you'll see me again someday because he's getting by with this and he'll do it again. So trust me, you're going to see me again.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, well, where's she at? Where's the body? She says there is no body.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
The relationship was there to take advantage of Bud Phillips and take advantage of his finances.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We're three hours from Lubbock, Texas to the north, and to the south we got San Antonio.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We gathered not only the ice cream, but other items within the house that could contain strychnine.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
Once it got closer to the property being sold, it kind of fell through because it was really not a way for her to prove up that she was the actual owner.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They had seen a subject come out of residence, screaming, yelling, and then shortly thereafter, the subject collapsed.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
What they suspected is the relationship was there only to take advantage of Bud Phillips and take advantage of his finances. She tried to sell some property that didn't belong to her. So again, what they suspect is the money could have been the motive.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We basically have to prove that she was there at the residence prior to his death, link her to the strychnine, and link her to the ice cream.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
Mr. Phillips' residence was at a corner of an intersection. One elderly lady across the street told me I happened to be looking in between 8 and 8.30.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We could place her at the scene of the crime within 20 to 30 minutes of the death. That was too much of a coincidence for us.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
She realized that he had stopped breathing. At that point, we had dispatched medical personnel from the fire department to respond to the scene.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
He was transported by ambulance to our trauma one hospital here in San Angelo.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They had seen a subject come out of residence screaming, yelling.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They've lived together for a period of time. They consider themselves husband and wife, but not legally married.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
A male subject that age, it's highly likely that he could have had a heart attack or some other medical episode.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They just didn't believe that was an authentic letter admitting to the crime and then the suicide afterwards.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
Mr. Phillips and Purdy Clark lived together, and they considered each other husband and wife, but not legally married. They were more than a dating relationship.