Detective
Appearances
20/20
True Crime Vault: Overboard
Tom and Jackie Hawks, were in the process of selling the vessel to this other couple, Skylar and Jennifer DeLeon. We ran both of them to figure out, because they were probably or potentially the last people to see the Hawks. When we ran Skylar, we automatically find out that he's got a record.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He had done jail time for an armed burglary, where he broke into a house with a weapon, and he was on probation.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Newport Beach is the dream that a lot of people think of when they think of California.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He said he was Marine Corps Force Recon, which for those who don't know, is one of the elite military forces in the United States military. He got a Marine Corps Force Recon tattoo.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He would explain that he had attended all these classes and all this training and he had, you know, 62 confirmed kills.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We get a search warrant to look at the boat, and they find a bunch of things that are of interest, but they find that, number one, it's messy, so Tom Hawks has not left it that way. and they find a receipt from a Target store.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
It's one of the few places in the United States that you can buy a multi-million dollar home and have a dock ready to accommodate a 50-, 60-, 100-foot yacht. Oh, yeah.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
If I was going to kill somebody, you know, I'd have my clean kit, and it would be bags to get rid of evidence, you know, bleach to wipe down the scene, and maybe if I had a conscience, some Tums to settle my stomach after killing some poor people. Target security was able to pull up that specific purchase of these items.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And I was looking at an obese man, which was not Skyler DeLeon. Now we have another little straw on the camel's back saying, okay, who is this guy? And why is this receipt on this boat? And who is this clown?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They find a receipt from a Target store. And every time you purchase anything from a Target store, You're photographed at the cash register and you're photographed leaving. So we get this photograph of this guy and police trace it back. And it is Steve Henderson, Jennifer's father, who actually made this purchase.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
So Newport detectives go to his house in Long Beach and they say, is this you in this photograph buying these items? We found this receipt on a boat. He immediately says, yeah, my daughter and son-in-law purchased that boat.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He says, they're helping to clean a church right down the street. I think they're there now.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
When I see a family volunteering in a church... I was put at ease a little bit with that, thinking, okay, this is gonna turn out okay. The Hawks are fine. These people will tell us what happened and then we'll be able to locate them and close the case. I was talking to Jennifer and basically said, we're looking for the Hawks. The family's very concerned. And she said, we're really concerned too.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She goes, we've been trying to reach out to them continually since we bought it. They have a lot of property, clothes and stuff on the vessel. We don't know what to do. She was very specific and seemed very genuine in her concern for the hawks and finding them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler says, we purchased it. All the documents were proper. They signed them. We recorded them. I don't know what else to tell you.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We told Skyler that we needed copies of the paperwork. He told us that he had certified notarized paperwork regarding the sale, so the sale was legitimate.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He produces these documents indicating that Skyler and Jennifer had purchased the boat from Tom and Jackie Hawks. There are signatures on it. There are fingerprints on it.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I was shaking my head going, okay, I still can't get a handle on this guy. The following day, he agreed to go to the Newport Beach Police Department where we had him in a proper interview and recorded the interview. Go down and see Scott. We're still in the same position where we were yesterday. These folks are still missing. Family is very concerned, and that's understandable.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Schuyler was very forthright. He was very, very interested in finding where the hawks were. How did you hear about the vessel being
20/20
True Crime Vault: Overboard
Of course, one of the big questions is, well, hey, man, where did you get the money? And he goes, look, as you look into my background, you're going to see I was involved in a burglary. In reality, that was a part of a dope rip. That was a drug ripoff.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
At this point, I already knew Skyler was on probation for an armed burglary, so he's a felon. And now he said, I'm telling you, Sergeant, I want to go straight with my family. I'm a father now. I have another child on the way. So I'm trying to invest this money in a way that I can support them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I go, so you're legitimizing this money that was illegal. And he copped out basically to money laundering.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
You didn't have to. You could have told me, hey, man, you know, I inherited the money. I did whatever. You were very honest with me, and that's all I'm asking for.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I was asking, what kind of container was this money in? Was it loose bills? Was it, you know, all hundreds? They're all $100 bills?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And I just know working narcotics, it was just a mishmash of cash. It was never something where you'd go into a bank vault and see perfectly stacked thousands of dollars in bank wrappers. So that kind of raised a flag. You flashed the cash to them? Yeah. Did you just open the briefcase or did you give it to them?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler was very descriptive on Tom's reaction when he opened the briefcase, and it was full of cash.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
According to Skyler, Tom asked him, is it all here? Skyler kind of giggled at me and said, yep, it's all there. And so they basically said, here's the keys to the yacht. Tom and Jackie drove off in their Honda. And Scott and Jennifer said that was the last time that they saw them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Hey, I'm the captain of this boat. They were talking about buying a home in New Mexico, and we corroborated that from other sources. Tom was interested in that. Skyler, you got nothing to do with his disappearance, right?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And your wife doesn't either? No. Nobody in your family, your dad, nobody, right?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
When you look at the interview, Skyler is leaning over to these detectives, and he is so convincing.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Why is it you guys have power of attorney? This is a big stumbling point for the family. They said that there's no way that their family members would give power of attorney to anybody. Power of attorney, that was a pretty powerful document because what I was looking at was that Tom and Jaggy Hawks had basically gave Skyler DeLeon complete control of their assets, which made absolutely no sense.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jennifer and Skylar walk in, and they have this durable power of attorney. So the bank manager looks at this. It's been properly recorded. Their signatures are on it, it's been properly notarized, and takes one look at it and goes, no way am I giving you access to their accounts.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Go down and see Skyler. I'm going to borrow you for a little bit because I had to go over a few more questions on this thing. Why is it you guys have power of attorney?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Scott had volunteered that he was very experienced in purchasing property there and that he had dual citizenship, he was of Mexican descent, and that he could facilitate a sale. Since he was giving him such a great deal on the yacht, he would help him out get this money. And Scott had proceeded to tell us that Tom was very interested
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We talked to friends and family of Tom and Jackie Ox. Sure enough, Tom had been talking to people about buying a little house in the Sea of Cortez.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Alonzo Machain, his name was there in full print as a witness on this bill of sale. And when I asked Skylar who is Alonzo Machain, he says, oh, he's a friend of mine that I've met, and he's from Mexico. Well, our investigation shows that Alonzo happened to meet Skylar while Skylar was doing jail time.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I'm going to be confident with Alonso because he's also one of the last people to see them, so that helps us. Okay, good. Yeah, that's fine.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They go and they interview Alonso, and Alonso tells essentially the same story. We're there in the parking lot. I watch Skylar hand this money over to this guy. They drive out in their car. The other person they interviewed was Kathleen Harris. Kathleen Harris, she was a professional notary, never been in trouble a day in her life, and she told a very similar story. They were down there.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She watched this transaction. She notarized the documents. We hit a dead end in this investigation. We had a group of people who were all telling the same story. We had no physical evidence of a crime. We had no word from Tom and Jackie Hawks. We had no break in the case at all. Brother, I don't want to keep here anymore. I appreciate you driving down here.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Overboard
I was so relieved. I was overwhelmed and choked up. Please be the Hawks. I want to find them alive. I'm thinking, okay, let's get down it right away. If I was going to kill somebody, you know, I'd have my clean kit, bags to get rid of evidence, bleach to wipe down the scene, and maybe if I had a conscience, some tums to settle my stomach after killing some poor people.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar says, look, I purchased this boat, and I don't know what else to tell you.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We'd been in a dead end for weeks, and we made the decision that we needed to get some media attention to the case.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
But the couple's car was missing. We're splashing the license plate, the vehicle description, the picture of the Hawks everywhere we could.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And what Skyler says is, look, I bought the boat from these people, and last I saw was they were leaving the parking lot with a suitcase full of cash that I paid them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We get a call from a retired couple that lived in San Miguel, Mexico.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
It's right there. And she snapped a photograph of it and sent it to us. And here we are looking at the Hawk's vehicle.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They're speaking in Spanish, but I'm making enough out of what's going on.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And I go... And at that moment, then I just said, ugh. Any possibility that the Hawks were still alive died right there, unfortunately, because as soon as I heard that, I go, yeah.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler had befriended this gentleman's son years earlier. And Skyler was an avid surfer. He would go down and surf, and he would stay with that family.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That family had no idea who that car belonged to or the circumstances.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
This is the big urgency we have right now. These people are still missing. I'm fearful that they're not alive.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Newport detectives wanted to interview him as much as possible because this story was starting to fray around the edges.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
You're saying you have nothing to do with their disappearance? No. You, as far as you know, they're alive?
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And what you've told us so far is the truth regarding you getting money smuggled up here? No.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
One of the first things detectives find is they find Tom and Jackie's laptop.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
The film that was in it was of all the Hawks' adventures out at sea, and then it abruptly ends.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar and Jennifer were using Tom and Jackie's camcorder to record their family Thanksgiving.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
A fellow detective of mine, Jay Short, had found a business card. An LAPD officer named Joe Bahena. He's a detective assigned to Interpol. And basically it's his job whenever there's a crime committed that the Mexican police need to investigate. He's their liaison officer. I was curious to us why Skyler DeLeon had this business card in his property. That's an interesting clue.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Why is your business card in the home of our suspect? And that's when we first heard the name John Jarvie.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
All John Jarvie needs to do is give Skyler $50,000 in cash. And then they'll go down to Mexico, do this big score.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
and they drive down to Mexico, outside of Ensenada. Except John Jarvie didn't come back.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
The other person they interviewed was Kathleen Harris. Kathleen Harris had no criminal background at all. She was a professional notary, never been in trouble a day in her life.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Tom had outfitted this vessel with everything. Inside was beautiful teak. It was immaculate.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
There's no way Kathleen Harris saw Tom and Jackie Hawks. We had interviewed Kathleen Harris, I want to say, four or five times, and she would not come off her story.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
I remember Keith coming out saying, I'm sorry. And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? I go, I think you pushed her. I think we got her. The next call we got was from an attorney representing her saying that she wanted to come in and make a statement.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She'd never met Tom and Jackie Hawks. She was given documents and paid in cash to backdate the documents. And that was one of the most significant breaks we had in the investigation because now we knew Skylar and Jennifer never had that notarized with Tom and Jackie and that that was false.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That was the first domino to fall. Then we started pressuring everybody else because we knew everybody else had lied to us too.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Good morning, Alonzo. Good morning. We just want to know what you know. Alonzo Machain was actually a jailer in the Sioux Beach City Jail where Skyler was serving time, so that's how they meet.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We focused on Alonzo because we thought he would be a weakling too.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He turned himself in and Alonzo Machain took us detail by detail through the conspiracy to murder Tom and Jackie Hawks.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler tells him that he's an international hitman. He gets his contracts out on people and they're all bad people because he'll only kill bad people. He won't kill good people. So he's an assassin with, you know, with a conscience.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
So what does Skyler do to solve that problem? He immediately calls Jennifer and says, you've got to bring Haley down, their one-year-old, and put these people at ease.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That's actually the linchpin in the whole thing. Had it not been for that, Tom and Jackie Hawks would still be alive today.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar realizes if they're going to actually pull this thing off, they need to get a big guy to sign on to this.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
John Fitzgerald Kennedy was an original founding member of the Long Beach Insane Crips. So he became the muscle in this whole scheme.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar and John Kennedy went downstairs with Tom Hawks. Meanwhile, Jackie's in the kitchen, and she hears this ruckus.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He was able to restrain Tom Hawks long enough to get him handcuffed. Meanwhile, it's Alonzo's job to subdue Jackie Hawks.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jackie's here, Alonzo's here, and then that's where Thomas Hawks, Skyler, and Jeff Care are on the bottom. And Jackie hears the commotion, she looks down this way, and this is where Alonzo overpowers her.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
It curves down here to put her at ease. I don't like being down here. It's one of the most poignant things I've ever heard in my career. It's okay, sweetheart. We're going to be together. Where we're going, we're going to be together.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And it looked like somebody went back later and put in an S totally inconsistent with any way she'd ever signed her name. This is a woman who knows that she is going to her death. This is a woman who knows that she is about to be murdered. And she is sending this flare up into the future for somebody to make it right.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler stands up with his smirk, tosses his huge anchor off the side of the boat.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Decides he's going to fish on the way back to Newport Harbor. John F. Kennedy took a beer from the Hawks' fridge.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Once Skylar was arrested, Jennifer was still out of custody. We still really didn't have enough information or evidence against her to prosecute her on much of anything at that point.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We extended immunity to Jennifer. We said, look, Tell us what happened.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
They almost completed each other. Jennifer and Skylar, before they met, hadn't committed any crimes that we're aware of really as individuals. But when they met, it was like fire and gasoline.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
The first person to go on trial was Jennifer DeLeon, and I think that she was still operating under the belief that she could blame Skyler for everything that had happened.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler did not make a move without running it by Jennifer. At every significant event during the murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks, he called Jennifer. They get down to Newport Beach, he calls Jennifer. They get on the boat out to sea, he calls Jennifer. They get out where they tied Tom and Jackie Hawks to that anchor begging for their lives, first thing Skyler did is call Jennifer.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That woman was physically not on the boat during the murders, but she was absolutely on the boat with guidance in spirit.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
And her whole defense was she was terrified of Skylar. She only went along with it because she was afraid that Skylar might kill her too. And she has a gigantic grin on her face, the look of a woman whose financial problems and debt problems are about to be solved, not somebody that's afraid of the man that she's with.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
She was convicted of the murders of Tom and Jackie Hawks and received a sentence of life without possibility of parole.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
During the investigation, there were some points that came up where Schuyler's gender identity was questioned, that he believes he was transgender, and that that was possibly a motive for not only the Jarvee homicide, but the Hawks homicide to facilitate payment for his transgender surgery.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jackie was involved in a motorcycle accident when she was 22 years old and had some internal damage and tragically was unable to have children of her own. When her stepson, Matt, had that baby, she really wanted to play the role of devoted grandmother.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We found actually a receipt where Skylar had paid $500 to a surgeon who specialized in gender reassignment surgery.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
To my surprise, when Skyler's attorney got up, he went to him. large flip chart.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
In my 26-year career as a prosecutor, Skyler DeLeon is the best liar that I've ever seen. For example, he said he was a Marine Corps force recon.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar was convicted of the murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks, and also John Jardy.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skylar DeLeon and John Fitzgerald Kennedy received the death penalty and are on death row. Jennifer DeLeon received two life sentences in her involvement and she's in prison now.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
We decided that a 20-year sentence was appropriate for him, given his cooperation, given his instrumental role in the prosecution of all these other people that were involved in the conspiracy.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Justice was served because these people were found guilty, but it's never a win because Ryan and Matt lost their parents. Mrs. Jarvie lost her son. And now that the governor has taken the death penalty off the table, you know, they're getting three squares a day and living their life. So I have really mixed feelings on that.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
He's receiving hormones on the state tax dollars. I think he's petitioned to have the surgery done. But you shouldn't be rewarded for brutally murdering three people so you can get your way. Any chance they get to
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
this case is probably the one of the few that just sheer evil is involved i was a prosecutor for 26 years this is a case i will personally never forget they're evil personified scariest people i've ever met i had a recurring nightmare for years where schuyler is running and i've got to chase him and tackle him and it's uh one of the most gratifying things in my career to have jury
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
make the right call, and not just once, not just twice, but three times, with Jennifer, with Skylar, and with John Kennedy.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
So after this last Catalina cruise, Tom and Jackie had told Jim Hawks and other people that the sale was going to take place in the next few days.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
That's what they were hoping to do. They believed that they had found a buyer to the boat, that they had essentially gotten the price that they wanted.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Before you sell a vessel, they take a sea trial. They take the vessel out. It's like a test run in a car.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Rocking and rolling on a well-deserved. She left a voicemail. It basically said that Tom and Jackie were out at sea with the purchaser and that she'd get back to them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Patricia Schutz, who they'd put in charge of essentially paying their bills and taking care of their finances while they were down in Mexico. Because during this time, way harder to deal with that from a foreign country, especially on a boat, which may or may not have internet access.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Jeez. Okay, well, this doesn't sound good right now. It became more and more sinister in the fact that nobody heard from them.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
This couple, Tom and Jackie Hawks, had lived on their yacht in Newport, were in the process of selling or sold the vessel to this other couple, Skylar and Jennifer DeLeon.
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True Crime Vault: Overboard
Skyler happens to be a convicted felon. He's on probation. I go, geez. So my first indication, okay, well, this doesn't sound good right now.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
We continued with the investigation and continued to try to have additional conversations with Keyes to learn more.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He told her not to turn the alarm on, that if she tries to do something, he would hear in the police scanner that the police is coming and then he would kill her.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Samantha's talking with him and really trying to engage him in conversation and asking him questions. And she's doing what she should be doing. She's really trying to personalize herself to him. And she's trying to do what she needs to do to get out of that situation.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Yeah, so as soon as I got a phone, I started sending text messages. He needed the phone in order to send the text to Samantha's boyfriend, which would ultimately buy him some time before police are notified that she's missing.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Keys realizes that he does not have her ATM card. And Samantha tells him where it is. And that is when he leaves Samantha and goes back to Samantha's residence and goes into DeWayne's truck and ultimately finds the debit card.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
I was happy when Prosecutor Tyner came in and he allowed us to work on a case and investigate it like we believed it should be.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He's doing all of these things and Samantha is restrained in the shed.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
On June 13, 2017, we attempted to serve a search warrant at Dr. Kaufman's office here.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
I think this is every woman's nightmare of what could happen. And hearing it firsthand from somebody who was doing this was chilling. It was horrifying. It was difficult to listen to.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
That very morning after killing Samantha, he was going on a cruise from New Orleans. He woke up his daughter, got her ready, made sure that their luggage was packed. Then they went to the airport, and then they went to New Orleans, where his girlfriend joined him the next day.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
So this is the house here. The bedroom that April was found was upstairs.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
We knew Dr. Kaufman that there was a point in time that he was inquiring about having her killed.
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True Crime Vault: Family Secrets
We were able to get a witness to cooperate with us this past November. That broke the case.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
When he was on the cruise, he still followed the media attention, and he also saw that there was a big reward fund.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
So he bought an old Polaroid camera in a thrift store. He wanted to make her very much alive. And so he put some makeup on her body because by then there was some discoloration.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
The way that Keyes described what he did to Samantha was, there was no emotion. We're hearing this horrible thing that this girl had to go through, what this young woman had to endure, and he's just telling any old story. And it was during those times he had dismembered Samantha in the shed that he was gradually kind of taking her body out to Matanuska Lake.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He set up a shack and that kind of secured that fishing hole because it looked like just another fishing hole. He used a sled to transport five big garbage bags from his vehicle to that hole in the lake. And he came back on February 21st and February 22nd. I had a parent-teacher conference that day.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
If Keyes had not used that ATM card, I don't know if he would ever have been found. There was just no connection between him and Samantha. But the way he talked about the planning that went into Samantha, it was evident that he had planned this out down to the detail, and it just didn't seem like this was the first time that he had done this.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
I started to wonder very, very early on who else this could have happened to.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
A lot of that evidence would have to be analyzed, like the computer evidence. We were hoping for fingerprints.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
He knew that we had his computer, and he figured that having his computer, we'd be able to find big pieces of evidence.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
We knew that Samantha Koenig is dead. We knew that there is no more hope. It's like my heart was sinking. I felt very emotional and, you know, all kinds of emotions running through the head.
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Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
I think it was obviously difficult for all of us.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
So, you know, I'm standing outside here. The bullet hole is, you know, just about shoulder height there in the wall. A big hole? No, it's just a small bullet hole, about the size of a ballpoint ink pen. Nothing about this area here. I locate this spent shell casing, the first spent shell casing.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
Yes, ma'am. A second shell casing. So now, you know, I've got a second shell casing. Why is it here? Where'd it come from? Obviously, there was a second shot fired.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
We spoke to the family. We spoke to her friends. And everybody kept giving us the name Riley Gall because of their relationship, because they had seen the way that Riley had treated her, the way he had talked to her.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
He didn't say a whole lot. He was just kind of in a daze a little bit. He sat over his girlfriend.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
Person dressed all in black, head to toe, even sunglasses, a hoodie on, face covered, goes to Emma's house, tries to get in, scares her.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
When I first met him at his grandpa's, he might have been a grieving boyfriend. When we got into the interview room and sat down, I felt like there's a dark side. He didn't have a whole lot of passion or concern about it.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
In my opinion, he was emotionless. His interview was probably one of the most disconnected. It almost seemed rehearsed, deliberate. And you began to ask him about the gun. He did not have the gun, didn't know where the gun was, and basically didn't have anything to do with it.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
What if I told you someone told us that they saw you with a gun? What would you think about that? I would wonder if he said that and where they saw him with a gun. Alex McCarty said that you showed him a handgun. Where is the gun? I do not know. You understand that for us? Alex has no reason to lie about something like that. Yeah, but I'm telling you, I don't know where it's at.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
He said that you showed him the gun, you told him that you had it, and you told him that you got it from your granddad. I don't have the gun.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
I knew immediately within minutes of sitting down to talk to him, Riley Gall wasn't going to confess to anything. He wasn't going to do it.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
Do you ever remember having a conversation with Noah about getting fingerprints off a gun? How do you get fingerprints off a gun?
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
If they could help us get what they believe to be the murder weapon back, huge, huge piece of information.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
He was taken into custody. He was cooperative, and he didn't say anything.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
There was gloves and trash bags and tennis shoes, the black tape, some of the black clothing.
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True Crime Vault: Shot in the Dark
I really think that that was the clothes used not only the night of the murder, but I think also that was the clothes that was used the morning of the Man in Black incident.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We were looking for a purse. A section of Tonya Bennett's jeans had been cut away, a fly section. We were looking for that.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
T, like in the initial T for Tonya, Bennett-Goodpeace. That, I thought, was amazing.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
It's beginning to become very bizarre to me.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
She points out exactly where that body had been placed. She couldn't have missed it by 10 feet. I thought, my God, this woman was actually here.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
He agreed to accompany us to a substation located in Wilsonville. At that point, we interviewed John.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Today is Friday, February 16, 1990. Time now is 6.40 p.m. Mr. John Allen Sosnoski John, you realize that this conversation is being recorded? Yes, it is, sir. You understand we're investigating the homicide of Tanya Ann Bennett? Yes, sir.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We'll conclude the interview. Time now is 6.58 p.m.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
engaged in this process in fact she was showering them with calls at all times and kind of escalating the situation over the weekend laverne had contacted me and said that john had told her he may have written that note that was found in the dresser drawer that said t-ben a good piece
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I can't say it is for sure John's. I can't say it isn't John's. But it's a distinct possibility.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
took a polygraph, flunked it. The examiner informs Corson that, in his opinion, John Cisnoski has direct knowledge of the death of Tonya Bennett.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Portland is located in Multnomah County. It's basically northwest Oregon. It's a rather large metropolitan area.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We go and try to talk to Chuck Riley. He says, you're crazy. No, that didn't happen at all.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
No way would I do something like that. Chuck Riley voluntarily says, hey, look, he says, you guys can search my car. Fully cooperative with the examination of the car. It's fully processed. There isn't one item of evidence in there to indicate that Tonya Bennett had ever been in that car. No blood, no hair, nothing.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We were outside in an unmarked van, and we had asked Laverne to try to get John to volunteer information regarding the homicide of Tonya Bennett.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
And he raises his voice and says, I don't know what you're talking about. Are you trying to frame me?
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I have lost a great deal of what has been the seven years.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We'd send this section of jeans down to the crime lab to have them compared to Tanya's jeans that she was wearing when she was found, and it doesn't match.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We confronted Laverne with that fact, and Laverne admitted that she had planted those items in the trunk of the car, trying to convince us that John Cisnoski had been involved in the homicide of Tanya Bennett.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
She stated also that she had met John Ciesnowski at J.B. 's Lounge and brought along a shower curtain. When she pulled into the parking lot, there was a body laying on the pavement.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Now, as Corson and I are proceeding on the Columbia Highway.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We drive past where the body had been deposited. And she says, oh, we've gone too far. Turn around. And we're driving back. She says, this here bugs me. Stop.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
She points out exactly where that body had been placed. She couldn't have missed it by 10 feet. And that absolutely astounded me. I thought, my god, this woman was actually here.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We had enough probable cause to arrest John Sosnovsky and took him into custody and transported him to a booking facility.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
So myself and Detective Corson go out to her condominium. She says, it's correction time.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Then we asked her if she'd be willing to make a statement on tape, and she said yes, she would like to do that.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
They're leaving JB's lounge. John and Tanya are in the car. They're playfully fighting with one another.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
And they drive up to the Columbia Gorge. They get to Vista House, Crown Point, on the scenic highway. He tells Laverne to pull into the parking area.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Laverne says she gets out of the car and she goes to the stairwell and Tonya Bennett's laying there in the stairwell. She's alive.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
He says, draw the rope tight. Laverne says she continues to draw the rope tight and looks away.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
She said Tanya Bennett was moving. Suddenly, Tanya Bennett ceases to move.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Laverne said at that point, they put Tanya Bennett back in the car. They transport her to where her body was located, and then they drive home.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Now, I'm thinking, she's pointed out the dump site. She's confessed to us on tape. She's told her own daughter the same story. Very convincingly. I'm thinking, my God, she is actually involved in this.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I'm told to place her into a holding cell. I said, okay, Laverne, you need to go into that room right there. She turned around and she looked at me and she gave me a hug. I thought, oh my God, I felt like I put my mother in jail.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
You know, the night before the Burns trial was to start, I told Jim, I said, you know, I don't feel right about this. I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I worked for the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office in Portland, Oregon. I retired as a sergeant. In January of 1990, I was working homicide. It was a Monday, of course. Everything was basically routine, you know, for about an hour and then maybe around 9, 9.30 we got notified that a body had been found in Columbia Gorge.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I thought, I thought, he's teasing the police. Like, ha ha ha, here I am, see if you can find me. Look over your shoulder, I might be right behind you. Obviously the guy was mentally ill, to say the least.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I checked my voicemail and I received a telephone message from him, a recording on my answering machine. I was very surprised by it. And you were right.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
It was a female. Her clothing was lifted up above her breasts, and her jeans were down around between her knees and her ankles. And as I got to the body, I could see that she had been severely beaten and that there was a rope around her neck. And she was obviously deceased.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
In March of 1995, I received a telephone call from my supervisor saying that they had recovered a body of a female that was over the embankment on Highway 14. There was no identification on her. We had no idea who she was.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We showed her a photograph to other residents of the area that we were able to identify who she might have been hanging out with.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
This is Detective Joel Ebel, Clark County Sheriff's Office. The date is March 16, 1995.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Yes, she was. Okay, can you tell me a little bit, how'd they get here? In a blue semi-truck.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Well, from an investigative standpoint, we obviously wanted to talk to him. We wanted to find out if he knew what happened to Julie Winningham, because as far as we knew, he was probably the last person to be with her.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
There was nothing there that would have indicated who this person was. There was no identification. The only items that we found were a small red Swiss Army knife and a set of headphones for like a Sony Walkman, which were real popular back then.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
And we flew down ahead of him. We were able to set up there, wait for him to show up.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
The interesting part about it is after we told him that Julie Winningham was killed, he never asked how she died, what happened to her. We spent probably six or seven hours interviewing him in regards to his last contacts with Julie Winningham. He emphatically denied killing her.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
His story was that he had consensual sex with her, so he had no physical evidence. So how do we prove different?
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
A great deal of time elapsed, probably seven or eight days.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Okay, Pete, tell me what happened. Where are you at right now? Right now I'm at the 4D truck stop exit 378 in I-10.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I told him, I said, I think you killed Julie Winningham. You know, all the evidence points in your direction. But he was never hostile. He was never aggressive.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
OK, at this point, what I'm going to do is I'm going to call the local Sheriff's Department and have them come down and contact you, all right?
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I flew down to Arizona with another investigator, and we took him into custody.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
That confession was the key to the whole investigation. Without his confession, we didn't have a case. We couldn't prove that he killed her.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I didn't know anything about the letter. We get back to my office and he wanted to make a phone call. He said, can I call my brother? I said, sure. I said, obviously you're in custody. I can't let you out of my sight. But if you want to use my phone in my office, go right ahead.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Detective Chris Peterson from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office and Keith Hunter Jesperson. Do you want to talk to us about a homicide that occurred in 1990?
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We tried to retrace Tanya Bennett's steps from when she was last seen on the 21st of January.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
She had left her home, according to her mother, and she had some videotapes she was gonna return, and she had her Sony Walkman with her in her purse.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
She walked in just happy-go-lucky and was hugging people. She was there playing pool with two guys. And then later during her shift, why, she noticed that Tonya had left and the two men had gone.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
It wasn't unusual for her to leave the house and not come home for a few days.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
Not only did we go to the B&I Tavern, we went to, oh gosh, I don't know how many bars. There was one down in southeast Portland at 92nd Foster that she liked to go to also.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I call it a diary of cases I worked on. Of course, this is just one year. And it's got a lot of the stuff about Tonya Bennett's homicide in here. There's 800 pages of reports. On this here, it says, follow up on homicide, see file number, blah, blah, blah. So I didn't go into detail. It was the most jumbled up case I've ever seen in my life. I wish I had never drawn it, to be honest with you.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
It was just my turn in the barrel, I guess.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We also canvassed Tanya's neighborhood. That's basic. You go from door to door and ask people, hey, when was the last time you saw Tanya, blah, blah, blah. Uneventful. No fruit there.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
It was the most jumbled up case I've ever seen in my life. It's beginning to become very bizarre to me.
20/20
True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
He was only on probation for DUII. No criminal history other than that.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
We were greeted at the door by Mrs. Pavlenak, And she invited us in. She was very cordial. Offered us coffee. And she struck me as just a really nice older lady. I thought, wow, this is going to be interesting. That was my first impression.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
I found it an odd relationship. Now, why she was attracted to him, I have no idea. Laverne stated that she had been with Sestoski at JB's lounge and she had overheard him tell a man that he had killed a girl and left her body in the gorge and that he had sex with her.
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True Crime Vault: Sincerely, the Happy Face Killer
the police start to zero in on John Sosnovsky.
20/20
Bad Romance: Betrayed
Angel had become associated with a group that loosely operated out of a bookstore called the Mystic Moon. To the police, that opened a Pandora's box of, well, who did she meet there? January 2nd, 2008, there was a call to the Norfolk Police Department. There's a man that wants to talk about the Goyena case.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
We met with him. The man very quickly indicates that he knew Angel. He knew her from the Mystic Moon. And he said he was part of that community where there were some people who were involved in vampirism. He also, disturbingly, implied to the detectives that he may know something about Angel's murder.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
The knife was submitted to the lab. There was no DNA, blood trace, and the knife could not have made the injuries on the bodies. And so once we talked to him and knew that he was not close to the family, I didn't have a problem eliminating him.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
When the forensic investigators were going through the house, one of the things that was of interest was a computer.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
We got the search warrant for the computer, and once we got it to Forensic, that's when we found out.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
On June 24, 2007, David Hoshaw, as the administrator for the computer, changed the password to For Amanda.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
We knew he was roughly 80 miles away at 11 p.m. at night, and he was there at 6 in the morning. That is not physically impossible to drive to Norfolk two hours, commit a brutal homicide, and drive back, but it's unlikely behavior. When you're looking at individuals capable of committing a homicide, David Hoshaw does not jump off the pages.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
But sometimes people that present that way are actually the most dangerous.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
David Hoshaw became like a onion in the case. The more you peeled him back, the more strange information came out.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
He then joined the United States Air Force and was transferred out to Spokane, Washington area.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
Naomi had complained to the United States Air Force about domestic abuse. The 12-year-old girl and her parents cooperated with the United States Air Force. He pled guilty to both indecent acts and assault on the 12-year-old.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
United States Air Force chose not to criminally prosecute him in a court martial, which could have sent him to prison, and administratively discharged him from the Air Force with an other than honorable discharge.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
After Naomi, he got involved with his eventual second wife, who he was married to for a short time.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
and he sees an older woman on the floor, on the rug, next to a phone that appears to have blood on it.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
David didn't seem to have jumped in getting the wedding preparations together.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
She's bugging Hoshaw. Who do you want to invite? And he kept saying, yeah, yeah, I'll get them to you. And David Hoshaw's going back and forth to Michigan.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
Her name was later determined to be Vanda Goina, and she was 74 years of age.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
At the viewing at the funeral home, entire family shows up. Who doesn't show up? David Hoshaw.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
I set up a meeting with the victim's family, and they were adamant that they knew it was David Hoshaw.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
We got two letters that we have a killer taking credit for the double homicide. But we needed evidence that showed that Hoshaw was the only person that could have mailed the letter. This is the envelope of the first letter that was mailed on July 23rd from Curtis Collins processing station in Chicago. We had to try to find something that would put him around Chicago.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
There was a cell call that bounced off a tower within a few miles of where this letter would have had to have been mailed.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
That was really key that we were able to put him between 2.1 and 12.6 miles from that post office.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
August 15th. The second letter is dropped in the mailbox in Gaylord, Michigan. We knew that David Hoshaw took his new girlfriend, Amanda, on a little road trip
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
And David Hoshaw's credit card purchases throughout the trip opened a window because his purchase history was literally a roadmap. There were hotels.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
August 13th and 14th, he was consistently making purchases moving southward on the interstate to the point where he would go through Gaylord on August 15th.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
David Halshaw stepped out. He was handcuffed and escorted out of the house.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
He was transported to the state police barracks. When we walked into that interview room, I expected to get a confession. I was so pumped.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
I know your heart is burdened right now, man. But I guarantee you, once you get it off your chest, you're going to feel a lot better. And then he broke my heart.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
He lawyered up. And I knew he wanted to talk to Amanda, and Amanda had asked to talk to him.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
This was in an interview room in which there was a camera that was discreetly placed. And the detective Malbin advised David Hoshaw of his legal rights.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
He had a right to remain silent. He didn't have to talk to Amanda, especially about the case. He didn't have to answer her.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
Amanda started going off. She picked up the letter. Did they have this letter? So at that point, I knew I had the right person.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
If he had never mailed the letters, there's a very good chance the evidence would never have developed to charge him
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
Come on, Wrexham! With an all-new season. We're going into a really tough division.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
The case was set to be tried for a month. We had about 140 witnesses subpoenaed. We were ready to go. We produced a mannequin and we asked the medical examiner to use knitting needles to demonstrate all of the wounds. It not only shows just the incredible sheer number of stab wounds in this area, but it does clearly show that Angel sustained defensive wounds.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
The doorframe around the front door had not been forced. They fingerprinted all the windows and found no blatant fingerprints on any of the exterior windows of the house, no signs of some sort of forced entry.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
The family members confirm that David Hoshaw is a couple hours away on the Middle Peninsula in Virginia at a Boy Scout week-long camp.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
So we talked to them, gave the alibi, denied committing the murder, and because there's nothing that points to him, he's allowed to leave.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
You don't have a clue, do you? I met the pretty biatch at the beach a few days before I killed her. She had her mother with her. She told me she was getting married in September, but she wanted to have one last fling beforehand. It references Angel and her mother going to the beach.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
About 12.30 or so, I got my knife and did the dirty deed. What a rush. I should have gagged her first because she screamed and woke up her mother. Don't bother checking for prints or DNA. I'm wearing a body suit and gloves. Clearly, it showed a killer that was reveling in what he had done. And then lo and behold, a second letter is received.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
It's mailed from Gaylord, Michigan, which is a small community in the middle of Michigan.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
Both letters and envelopes were forensically checked. No DNA on either of them. We have an extremely psychotic killer who is taking pleasure in taunting the police.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
Nobody is perfect when they commit a murder. There is no such thing as the perfect murder.
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Bad Romance: Betrayed
I knew that this case was going to be difficult. But deep down, I felt that this was a solvable case. It may have taken time, but it was going to be a solvable case.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
Marlon is declared dead at the scene. When fire and rescue go into the room where the female is, she's still breathing. They call air rescue to take her to the closest hospital. They were able to identify her, however, at that time as Tim Juanita Lumpkins. In Miami-Dade County, the Miami-Dade Police Department Homicide Unit handles all homicides.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
This was not a robbery. Somebody meant to kill the person.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
Sergeant Tom Romani was on call, and he took it from there. When you went inside, it was clear that this has been a brutal, brutal homicide. The blood had spattered up to the ceiling, to the walls. There's wood splinters that appear to come from something that whoever it was hit Marlon over the head with. And also there was an unshot shotgun shell that was on the ground near the body.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
It appeared to the police, based on their experience, this was not a robbery. Somebody meant to kill the person. Earl Little was questioned, and he tells them that he had lent Marlin the car, his truck, the night before. There was some party in Miami Beach, and he was coming to get his keys. And when he walked through the parking lot, he saw his truck, which was sort of leaning on its side.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
The case was like all over the place. I mean, TV, radio, they were talking about the case.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
They were good friends in high school. They played basketball a lot together, and they continued that friendship through till the 1990s.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
They said, you all got the wrong person. I said, no, that's not little bitch. I hope they find who did this, and I hope they do. I hope justice prevails.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
The first thing that was suggested was that they call all of the players and bring them in and explain what had happened and see if they knew anything.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
One of the things that came up when talking to the team was that Tim Juanica had been the girlfriend of somebody by the name of LeBron Dennis.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
That gave a direction to this case. So, Detective Romani was at the school, and then somebody told him that LeBron Dennis, whose name had come up when they met with the football players, had showed up at his office.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
Detective Romani had a court reporter come in, and he took a statement from LeBron Dennis asking him, did he know anything about the deaths of these two people? He basically said, I didn't have anything to do with it. I lived with her. I loved her. We have a baby together.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
He said that first he went to a bachelor party at like 1130 at night. Later on, he went down to the same party where Marlon and Tiwanika were. He doesn't see them there. He stays there a while, and then he comes home and goes to sleep.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
So Detective Romani really had no legal basis to keep him based on what he knew. It became important to go around the area at Club Salvation. and see if there were anybody working that may have seen any of them there at that time.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
He was just sitting in the car for hours. He was covering his face so you couldn't see his face. She did notice there was no tag on the back of the car, and she told him he had to leave. He did not leave, so she called the police, and they showed up, and he took off. And then the police left, and he came back again.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
At some point, he started walking away, and she saw him go towards the Ford Explorer. When Marlon and Tim Juanica got into the tow truck and they loaded the car, she noticed that the guy in the gray Nissan at the same time left the area.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
It became clear that the cars were an issue in this case and maybe would lead us to who was the person who had killed Marlon and Tim Juanica.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
The gas station attendant in this case was a very helpful witness. The detectives showed her a picture of LeBron Dennis' car. And she said, no, that's not the car that was there.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
As the investigation continued, the police learned that somebody had set a gray Nissan on fire. That was the same description as the gas station attendant had given them.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
It turned out that it's registered to Watisha Wallace.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
So Watisha Wallace, who's had her car burned, she turned out to be a girlfriend of LeBron Dennis. police became aware that Watisha had burned the car on purpose.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
The police have a line that people can call in if they want to report something about any sort of crime. There was a person who reported to the tip line that LeBron Dennis was responsible for the murders of Tim Wanika and Marlon. And she'd said that we should be talking to Joseph Stewart. Joseph Stewart knew LeBron Dennis.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
When they went to speak to Joseph Stewart, He said that he did not do anything to kill either one of those people. But he did give LeBron a shotgun that belonged to his mother.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
He was able to show them where he threw them down in the sewers. So when the police got their divers to go down there, they found the gun and the duffel bag. That was huge in terms of moving forward with this investigation.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
One of the most important pieces of evidence they found was an unshot shotgun shell that was on the ground near the body.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
It started with Timonica. Came home late the day of Marlon's birthday. That was April 6th. And LeBron got angry with her and lost his temper, and then she moved out. She wasn't going to put up with his anger and how he treated her. And when she left, Marlon got all the boxes and stuff and was taking them to the grandmother, because the grandmother was taking care of the little one.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
It's Marlon, Marlon, Marlon, and he's lost control of himself. He went to Salvation for that party. I think he waited for Marlon to come out. He just couldn't control himself. He slashed the tires. He followed the tow truck and he sees the car, sees the building they get into. So he brought that shotgun. He knew they were on the third floor.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
When I did meet with Charlie, she was very, very upset. I told her, you know, we were gonna have the best lawyers, the best witnesses, but no matter what happens to him, Marlon is still gone.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
On October 28, 1998, the jury came back with a vote of guilty on all charges. Because this was a homicide case where the state was seeking the death penalty, there was a second phase called a penalty phase.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
He jumped up, he was furious, he was screaming. The corrections officers grabbed him.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 3: Marlin Barnes
The morning of April 13th in 1996, the police and Carl Gables received a call from one of the University of Miami students by the name of Earl Little. Earl Little lived with Marlon Barnes.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
When John told us that he had met Jesus and James at the Home Depot, we brought them in just to confirm that John's story was correct.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
You can see on the Home Depot video that they're driving a black Lincoln.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Do you know anything about that would help us in our investigation? Honestly, I've only worked with them for three weeks.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Once Jesus fled and we could not locate him, we needed the public's help.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
We needed Jesus' face out there and let him know that he was a person of interest of killing Laura. If someone could provide us with information, that will help us in locating him.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Rowlett's a bedroom community, a lot of rooftops, a lot of people leave town during the day to work in the city.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Rollitt police released the house on Saturday. And John moved the family right back in the house. You got to remember, Laura's been killed in the kitchen. And the suspect is still at large. And so we found that odd that he never asked for any type of security detail.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
One of the neighbors was there helping clean, and he said, hey, go get her toothbrush. and so they were using her toothbrush to scrub blood out of the grout.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Jim Holland is a legend here in Texas. He got dragged into something that he didn't know f***ing about. I know that. He is an expert at solving cold cases.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
If someone could provide us with information to get him located and returned to Texas.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Jesus had approached multiple people. He said, I'll pay you money if you drive me to kill my boss's wife. And the first and second person turned him down. So I believe that James was brought in at the last minute to drive Jesus to Laura's house to kill her.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
James indicated that John was getting upset with Jesus because it's getting close to the wedding, and I need Laura to be killed before the wedding. Get it done.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
James told us when they were leaving north out of Rowlett that Jesus was throwing his shoes out. He was throwing his hoodie out along the roads. We were able to find one shoe and one hoodie that was still out there flattened out in the grass.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
When we arrived there, the fire department had made entry into the house. And they had backed out of the house because they located a shell casing. We've got one down, shell casing on the floor. We made entry into the house. And began clearing it. Clear.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Jesus had gone out and purchased a car for the sole reason for committing the murder. They brought the new car out, committed the murder, parked the car, got in their black sedan, and drove to the Home Depot. You can see on the Home Depot video that they're driving a black Lincoln.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
The motive here was he wanted to control Laura. He wanted sole custody of the four-year-old daughter. And because he couldn't control Laura, he decided to just eliminate her.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
We located a victim laying face down in the kitchen with a lot of blood around her head. I don't have her information yet.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
After Laura was murdered and John was arrested, then the two older children were returned to their biological fathers.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Inside the master bedroom, there was a safe on the dresser. The door was open, and there was two plastic totes that were turned over on the bed. It didn't look as far as burglary that was interrupted or anything like that. It just didn't look right to me. Can you confirm CID en route? CID is the Criminal Investigations Division, which houses all of our detectives.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
I was pretty certain that this was going to be a major case, and I wanted to get those guys out there as soon as possible.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
I thought I saw an entry wound in her forehead. There was a large police presence and first responder presence at the house. There were several neighbors that started coming out and wanting to know what's going on. As we were securing the scene, I was approached by a male who called me by my first name. In law enforcement, we call each other by last name.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
okay come here come here come here come here but he called me by my first name and kind of took me by surprise and that's when i recognized john macros as the person that was calling me
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
John Makris was a volunteer with the police department in a program called VIPS, and I'd known him over maybe a two-year period. That is all I can tell you, and that's all I know right now. Once I realized it was John's house, that made me start thinking that it was Laura that was down inside the house.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
Okay. We determined that there was no forced entry into the house. So that kind of tightens our circle down a little bit.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
We had to look at Brian, but what we found is that he's deaf in one ear and hearing impaired in the other. And if he's laying on his good ear, then that was the reason why he didn't hear the gunshot. Pretty early on, we eliminated Brian as a suspect.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
At Rowlett, we have a program called VIPS and it's Volunteers in Police Service. They wear a modified volunteer uniform and these are citizens of Rowlett. They help us a lot.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
And I told John that I had confirmation that the deceased person was his fiancee, Laura.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
He stated that it was him, the kids, his mother, and the victim's brother, but he never did say the victim's name.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
That was a huge red flag because maybe he knew a lot more what was going on.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
He told us that morning Laura left with the kids to take them to school. He left at that same time with his mom, and he drove to meet his two construction workers, Jesus and James, at a Home Depot in Dallas.
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Bad Romance: No Tomorrow
It cleared John at that point of the investigation. We knew that John had not committed the murder.
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Unholy Matrimony
What happens on that type of a call is the homicide unit gets a call, the guys come up here from the unit, as well as our technical investigators.
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Unholy Matrimony
Yes, this is the train that comes through to Hatchipee. And we're pulling onto a Goodrick Drive now, which is the one way in and one way out.
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Unholy Matrimony
It is. It absolutely is. That's why I believe that someone who was purposely had to come here or they were lost.
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Unholy Matrimony
As they arrive here, this roll-up door, this large roll-up door, is open. Inside, there is a large work truck. Next to the truck, near the driver's door, there is Robert Lamont. And he's sort of propped up against the truck.
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Unholy Matrimony
When I arrived during the walkthrough, I observed he was laying next to a refrigerator. This photograph here is significant. We found that there was blood spatter on the side of the refrigerator door. There was blood starting to pool underneath his body. We did find an expended bullet that was on the ground just above Rob's head.
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Unholy Matrimony
And they also found the office inside had been sort of ransacked. And they found drawers pulled from a desk. They found binders and shop manuals and things on the floor.
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Unholy Matrimony
So as we begin looking at the crime scene itself and you're finding shot manuals pulled out onto the ground, it's very odd that you can't steal those and trade them. And generally people who commit crimes of murder and things like that are looking for fast money. And we sort of determined that, you know, this looked as though maybe it had been staged.
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Unholy Matrimony
Yes. When detectives contacted Sabrina Limon and informed her that her husband had been, in fact, murdered, her actions and her demeanor was appropriate. I mean, she was crying.
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Unholy Matrimony
We began interviewing his family and friends, and they said that he was a great guy. Everyone that we spoke with said that he was just a fantastic person, and he was sort of the husband that every woman would want. I think we got nothing but praise about him from family and friends.
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Unholy Matrimony
The following day, during daylight hours, we came out and we began canvassing the area. And upon doing so, we found this video surveillance camera right here. And this is the camera that actually captures the only footage we had for that entire day of anyone within this complex.
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Unholy Matrimony
This is the camera that captured the person walking through the complex with an exaggerated limp, walking towards the BNSF location where Rob was found dead.
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Unholy Matrimony
We thought this would be great. There's the potential this is going to actually have footage of the person who committed this crime.
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Unholy Matrimony
why no one had any reason to suspect or know of anyone that wanted robert lamone killed or dead he was well liked by everyone and no one could imagine any reason why someone would want to kill robert
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Unholy Matrimony
Each and every single one of us had the overwhelming opinion that the office within this BNSF railroad complex appears that the crime scene had been staged.
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Unholy Matrimony
When they asked her about her marriage with Rob, she said everything was great. She said there was no extramarital relationships that she was involved in or she was aware that Rob was involved in. And so at that point in time, she wasn't able to provide us any information with respect to who may have killed Rob.
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Unholy Matrimony
We discovered that the gun used in this case was a larger caliber, probably a 44 Magnum or a 45 or possibly larger. So we were looking for, in all likelihood, a handgun of larger caliber.
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Unholy Matrimony
We received a tip that someone went into a local gun store in Tatchby and requested that their firing pin be replaced.
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Unholy Matrimony
Detectives were hopeful that this was possibly a great lead, and this could possibly be the gun that was actually used in Rob's murder.
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Unholy Matrimony
We seized the gun in question, had it examined and had it compared to the bullet that was found at the scene, and we found that the two did not match.
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Unholy Matrimony
So this is a photograph of the truck that Rob was driving that evening during a shift. We were hopeful initially that we might be able to get some video surveillance from, being that many of the trucks are equipped with cameras. But unfortunately, the cameras aren't running 24-7, and they're only recording when they're actually being operated.
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Unholy Matrimony
We began canvassing the area. And upon doing so, we found this video surveillance camera right here.
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Unholy Matrimony
We saw a subject. You couldn't really tell his age. The quality of the video is not the best. And you could see him walking with a limp through the complex. And then towards, once again, where... Down this way. Correct, where the BNSF rail business is located.
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Unholy Matrimony
You could tell that it was a man. I think that was fair to say it was a man. But anything other than that, age, ethnicity, no.
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Unholy Matrimony
The only video we released was the person in the industrial complex. Some of the tips we got led us to a local transient that people believed could have been potentially involved. And we were able to locate that person and ultimately eliminate them as the suspect.
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Unholy Matrimony
Video surveillance footage did in fact show Rob Lamone driving on Goodrick Drive.
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Unholy Matrimony
On the day in question, there was multiple vehicles that were on Goodrick Drive where Rob Lamone was located. We were able to identify each every person driving those vehicles on that day with the exception of a lone motorist on a motorcycle. The video surveillance captured a subject riding his motorcycle eastbound on Goodrick Drive, and then a short time later, he was leaving Goodrick westbound.
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Unholy Matrimony
Robert Lamone's friend contacted us and told us that he received a very odd message left on his cellular phone from a subject whom identified as Jonathan Hearn. He thought what was very odd about the voice message is that Jonathan seemed very apologetic for Rob's death.
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Unholy Matrimony
This is the first time during the investigation that we heard the name Jonathan Hearn.
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Unholy Matrimony
Jason told us that Sabrina was possibly involved with a Redlands fireman by the name of Jonathan Hearn.
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Unholy Matrimony
Jason Pernatine knew Jonathan Hearn due to they're both firefighters and that they used to work with one another, especially when Jonathan was a paramedic on an ambulance crew. So they ran calls together.
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Unholy Matrimony
He knew that Jonathan Hearn actually had possibly a dating or romantic relationship with Sabrina Limon outside of Robert Limon. It was odd and suspicious in the fact that Jonathan called Jason and apologized to him for having this relationship with Sabrina outside of Rob's knowledge.
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Unholy Matrimony
Rob's dead, and this is just odd. This is just very odd behavior from this person.
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Unholy Matrimony
Jonathan Hearn was originally not on our radar whatsoever. When Jason came to us and told us about Sabrina and Jonathan's possible relationship, we immediately started looking into Jonathan to find out if we could make any sort of connection or a link to Rob.
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Unholy Matrimony
So it was told to us that there was the potential that him and his wife had an open relationship, meaning the non-traditional marriage with other people within their small group of friends.
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Unholy Matrimony
We learned that there was possible infatuation that Jonathan had with Sabrina. Jason Bernatine's wife, Kelly, actually called us and told us that Jonathan Hearn was spending quite a bit of time with Sabrina Limon at her home. And Kelly found this very odd.
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Unholy Matrimony
And we began to do some follow-up investigation into this Jonathan Hearn and found that he had a motorcycle registered to him.
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Unholy Matrimony
So from various convenience stores, we began pulling video surveillance footage. And we did find one at the pilot station at a place commonly referred to as Four Corners. Thank you.
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Unholy Matrimony
She was just steadfast. I have no involvement in this. And she didn't really give us much.
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Unholy Matrimony
Detectives in this case believe that Sabrina and Jonathan did conspire to kill Rob. We just had a little bit more work to do in order to allow the district attorney's office to provide us with a warrant to re-arrest Sabrina.
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Unholy Matrimony
We received a phone call from the district attorney's office and said they were contacted by Clayton Campbell, indicating that Jonathan Hearn did in fact wish to testify and provide information.
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Unholy Matrimony
The way she was acting towards us was, I can't believe this. Basically, how dare you? How dare you come and arrest me? I'm not involved in this. I didn't do anything.
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Unholy Matrimony
This looked as though maybe it had been staged. Some drawers were pulled out. Other drawers were not pulled out. It screamed as being a staged crime scene.
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Unholy Matrimony
The Tatchpee Loop was engineered to assist trains in not going too fast as they're coming down the mountains from Mojave into Tatchpee.
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Unholy Matrimony
When they're stopped, it's not uncommon for someone to break into the trains and steal the contents of its cargo.
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Unholy Matrimony
It's on Goodrich Drive, which is a one-way in and a one-way out street. So if you're going to go there, that's going to either be you have a destination or you're lost.
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Dirty Little Secret
Sit and talk to me. I just want to talk about what happened that night. Absolutely. That way we can clear all this up, because I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, as far as Linda and all I'm saying.
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Dirty Little Secret
Like I said, I just wanted to sit and holler at you about one nice thing, you know, to kind of quell everything. If I asked you to take a polygraph test, would you be willing to do so? Okay.
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Dirty Little Secret
How long was that that it took it to progress to him calling a couple times a day?
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Gabby Petito: Her Parents Speak Out
Okay, when was the last time that you saw Brian and Gabriel?
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Gabby Petito: Her Parents Speak Out
The attorney's number? Okay, I would like that, please. I can give it to the detective. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And just to let the detective know, is Gabriel here? No. She's not here. Okay. They said that Gabriel's not here. That's all they're saying, that his son is here, but Gabriel's not. They're not talking.
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Unlucky Numbers
Abraham's cousin, Cedric Edom, reported him missing to our missing persons unit, and that's where the whole investigation started.
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Unlucky Numbers
A lot of people said, well, I don't think he's missing. I think he took his money and wants to get away from all this.
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Unlucky Numbers
and the mother of his child. Centoria, she received a text message saying he was going on vacation and leaving her for another woman.
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Unlucky Numbers
That was one of the biggest hurdles we had in the beginning of the case was nailing down when the last time Not only was Abraham seen, but when someone physically and actually talked to him on the phone. So this case is such a mess that in the beginning, you don't even have a starting point. Every time we would talk to someone, they had heard something different.
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Unlucky Numbers
It just seemed like every story was leading back to Didi Moore. And so we're just like, OK, we've got to talk to Didi Moore because This Lady Didi is associated to every story that we're being told.
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Unlucky Numbers
Her statement was that she talks to him all the time. If we wanted to see him, she would make sure that she brought him to us. So she sends him a text message in front of us and is like, Abraham, call me. Please call me. We wait a little bit and nothing. And she's like, well, I'll call you in the morning. Soon as we hear from him, we'll set up a meeting. So we left.
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Unlucky Numbers
I think we thought that was a real true possibility. Once we put him in, the national database is missing. We got calls from all over the United States, and some of them with super confidence that it was Abraham. It wasn't him, but we had to deal with a lot of that.
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Unlucky Numbers
We certainly hope Abraham's alive and well, and he has successfully hidden himself away. But our investigation doesn't lead us to believe that at this time.
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Unlucky Numbers
Michael Ford lost a lawsuit to him, claimed the winning lottery ticket was his, went all the way to a trial. He's probably pissed off.
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Unlucky Numbers
We actually pulled his phone records to confirm where he was, and he was in Georgia. I mean, we looked at him that hard, but it was more of an elimination thing.
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Unlucky Numbers
She was suspicious, didn't think it sounded like her son, but in the back of her mind, maybe he really does have a cold. Maybe he's really sick.
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Unlucky Numbers
We had that 30-day location tracker on the phone, so we pulled it up and it's at the Lakeland Mall.
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Unlucky Numbers
Abraham didn't have access to a penny of his money. Didi had not only taken over all of his banking accounts, she had transferred money out of the banking accounts.
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Unlucky Numbers
Once we were going deep into the investigation, we tried to find out everything we could about Dee Dee. And we found out, you know, she wasn't who she portrayed herself to be.
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Unlucky Numbers
We were really convinced that Didi definitely had more information. And we wanted to push some buttons with Didi.
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Unlucky Numbers
Abraham's mother called me. And she's like, Detective Clark, Abraham called me and told me Merry Christmas and that he's OK. But she said, it didn't really sound like my son. And I said, what number did that call come from? And she's like, it said private.
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Unlucky Numbers
And then in drives Dee Dee. It's like a gift from God dropped to us. Crazy. We watch her get out, meet with this guy, hand him a wad of cash.
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Unlucky Numbers
They talk for a minute, she gets in her car, and she drives away to the north, and this car with this gentleman in it drives away to the south. So we get behind the car, we're following it, and we're like, let's stop it. We go to stop the car. So I just jump out.
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Unlucky Numbers
I go to the guy and I go, you can either park your car, get in our car and come with us, or we're going to try to put you in prison the rest of your life. And he goes, well, I guess I'm coming with you.
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Unlucky Numbers
We've got to talk to Dee Dee more because everybody is bringing her name up. Whatever story they had, everything just kept circling back.
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Unlucky Numbers
Abraham Shakespeare won $31 million in the Florida lottery going from rags to riches.
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Unlucky Numbers
Pretty simple trick, but it worked good, and it gave us a good recording of the car.
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Unlucky Numbers
Yes, they did. Dee rules is expensive. We're listening as they're in the hotel.
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Unlucky Numbers
So she's dressed in full hospital gown, gloves, face mask, hair so that while she's typing that none of her DNA gets on the paper or gets on the envelope or anything.
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Unlucky Numbers
And we're down there laughing because Greg's like, no, maybe you should say bro instead of brother.
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Unlucky Numbers
He puts it in the mailbox. He leaves. I take the letter out of the mailbox and put it in evidence.
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Unlucky Numbers
He also names Dee Dee Moore as a person of interest. I must tell you, folks, that certainly it is fair to call Dee Dee Moore a person of interest.
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Unlucky Numbers
So immediately, she calls Greg Smith. We've got to do something. Did you see what Sheriff Judd's saying about me?
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Unlucky Numbers
We call a guy named Mike Smith. I mean, he's just a very large, intimidating fella, and one of the best undercover guys I've ever worked with.
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Unlucky Numbers
So we tell Greg, we just want you to tell her that you have a cousin that's going to prison. If there happens to be something wrong with Abe, I bet for the right amount of money he'll take a murder rap.
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Unlucky Numbers
She reacted way more than we expected. She immediately says, I want to meet him. I want to meet him as soon as possible.
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Unlucky Numbers
The meeting is taking place in a undercover vehicle that we had equipped with listening devices and recording devices.
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Unlucky Numbers
And then Mike tells her, wherever the body is, I want to move it because if I'm going to confess to this, I'm going to make it my own. And she brings up, there's a guy named Ronald, a drug dealer,
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Unlucky Numbers
That's the biggest moment of the case. That's where we know 100% he's dead. I mean, for us, couldn't have been a bigger moment than that right there.
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Unlucky Numbers
The next morning, Dee Dee calls Greg and says, we need to meet and make it quick.
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Unlucky Numbers
He goes and meets Dee Dee, and Dee Dee hands him a towel. There's something wrapped in the towel, and she tells him, this is the gun that was used to kill Abraham.
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Unlucky Numbers
She asked him to meet him back at the same spot later in the night. She would show him exactly where the body was.
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Unlucky Numbers
They parked over in this house. We're just kind of on the side of the road with our lights off. She walks Greg right here. There was a 30-foot by 30-foot concrete slab. Concrete slab in the middle of a field. Yeah. And she takes a piece of angle iron and sticks it in the corner of the slab and sticks it down in there and says, dig.
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Unlucky Numbers
I think once we heard that, We both look at each other and go, wow, let's just hope this isn't another Dee Dee spin or scam on things.
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Unlucky Numbers
I'm sure she's thinking that we're arresting Greg for the murder of Abraham. So she's composed and says she wants to come back and talk to us and let us know some things. OK, so you get her in here.
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Unlucky Numbers
She first says, hey, I'm glad y'all got that guy Greg. I think that he's done something to Abraham.
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Unlucky Numbers
And so I let her go on for a few minutes. And I said, look, Dee Dee, I got some bad news for you.
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Unlucky Numbers
I think you know where I'm going with this, Dee Dee. The gig is up. OK? The gig is up. Listen, everything that you've told him, everything you've done, everything is recorded, Dee Dee. Everything is recorded.
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Unlucky Numbers
We talk to him 10 times a day. We know every move you make. We know everything.
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Unlucky Numbers
Didi, you've said so many things, you can't even keep your head straight. Listen, listen. Who shot Abraham? No, no, no. Who shot Abraham? You know who shot him.
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Unlucky Numbers
We've got a 30 by 30, nine inch thick concrete slab that we've got to bust up.
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Unlucky Numbers
You didn't need DNA? I didn't need fingerprints. I didn't need DNA. I mean, of course we did that, but I looked, and there's Abraham.
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Unlucky Numbers
They're saying that I took a gun, put it up, and killed another human being, and I would never, ever do that.
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Unlucky Numbers
A lot of people said, well, I think he took his money and wants to get away from all this.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John. That's a line used by a terrorist in the movie Speed.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The ransom note was a vital piece of evidence. Police need to figure out who wrote it and when.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
And he just said, I have a name. I want you to write it down. And I did. And he said, that's where you start. All but one person on that list is innocent. Then you got your killer.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
According to Arndt, neither John nor Patsy Ramsey seemed to mark it or freak out about it. She says later she found it curious that John Ramsey checked his mail in the kitchen in the middle of the crisis.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The grot that was used in JonBenet's murder also got the attention of investigators because of what it was made of.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
And that was important, but Patsy lived in the house, so those could have been there anyway.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Though the police had spoken to John Ramsey after Jean Benet's body was found, what they really wanted to do was formally interrogate the couple.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Some people who believe Patsy killed her daughter believe it was over bedwetting and then staged it to look like an intruder. The bedwetting theory was a big theory at the time.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The suspect might be out there and be someone who's completely unknown, who has never been on anyone's radar.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Detective Lou Smith was like, whoa. He just said, I have a name. I want you to write it down. Here's the answer in the list he left behind.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Boather DA Alex Hunter brought Lou Smit out of retirement to help solve the Ramsey case.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Lou Smit was my father. He was just known as the detective that solved cases. When he got to a murder scene, he spent time dictating everything he saw, where the sun was in the sky, what the weather conditions were like, what the neighboring houses looked like.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
When he started his investigation, he felt like everybody else did, that it was probably one of the two parents.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
It was within a couple of days after my dad started on the investigation when he had a chance to review pictures, the evidence, that he was already saying, I think that they need to look the other way. He was already noting in his journal that he felt that they needed to look at an intruder.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The first thing that stood out to him was an open window in the basement. There was a suitcase propped up against it.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Also found in the basement by JonBenet's body, a shoe print, a high-tech brand that did not match any of the shoes in the Ramsey's house.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The counterargument is that footprint image could have been inadvertently left by police officers at the scene. But a more disturbing image in Lou Smith's investigation comes from two marks left on JonBenet's face and back.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Smith looked at other murders where a stun gun was known to have been used. He examined photos of a crime victim who had a known stun gun wound.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Patsy was feisty. She was combative, in stark contrast to John Ramsey, who was interrogated by Lou Smit.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
My dad's conclusions after that interview were just firmed up his belief that the Ramseys had nothing to do with this murder.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
being slanted where no other evidence was coming in.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Smith so strongly disagrees with the prosecutor's focus on the Ramseys that he is resigning from the case, saying, the case tells me John and Patsy Ramsey did not kill their daughter.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
He wrote a letter to Alex Hunter telling them that he couldn't be a part of the persecution of these people, is how he termed it.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
My dad may have resigned from the district attorney's office, but he never stopped work on the case. He walked in JonBenet's shoes, and he owed it to her, he felt, to continue his investigation.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Grand jurors arrived at the Boulder County Justice Center this morning and were escorted into the courthouse by sheriff's deputies.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The second focus for the grand jury, according to Jonathan Webb, was the viability of the intruder theory.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
The grand jury was looking at two specific accusations for the Ramseys. Child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime. The grand jury couldn't point the finger at Patsy or John specifically, but they were sure that one of them committed the crime and the other person helped to carry it out. This is 7 News at 5.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
I think deciding not to prosecute the parents for homicide was the right decision. No matter what you believe about the case, it would have been very difficult to get a conviction. Thank you very much.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
What became groundbreaking at the time was a thing called touch DNA. Essentially, when someone touches something, the skin cells they leave behind can be tested.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
This revelation of this new unmatched DNA drove the district attorney to announce they're no longer looking at the family.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
And how many victims is he going to have in the future?
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
When he got sick with cancer, he knew that his time was limited. And so during that time, he just talked to others about not letting this case die.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
And he just said, I have a name. I want you to write it down. And I did. And he said, that's where you start. You know, we'd be glad to pay that. We don't have that electronic report, so we would need Boulder to send it. After my dad died, you know, a couple of us, our family, and then some of his old homicide partners, we just formed a team.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
He wanted us to take the list that he had and try and keep the case alive.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
That new Netflix documentary, Making News, details how just months after JonBenet's murder, a 12-year-old girl who lived less than two miles from the Ramseys was attacked as she slept in her bed.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
In the search for the killer, investigators chased down countless leads, including a local transient.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
And so investigators also eliminate Helgoth as a person of interest.
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Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
If we keep at it, hopefully we'll finally whittle it down to one person remaining on that list. Do you think you know who the killer is?
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
While DNA science has progressed significantly since the early years of the JonBenet investigation, and investigators can now work with smaller, mixed, and degraded samples, there are still significant hurdles.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
According to the Boulder PD, investigators are utilizing outside labs and experts in the latest technology.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
Patsy Ramsey called 911 at 5.52 a.m. and the first officer from the Boulder Police Department arrives three minutes later at 5.55.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
And that was a mistake on my part. The reason I didn't is because these people were the Ramsey's support system. There was no information at all to indicate the family was involved at that point.
20/20
Forever Young: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey?
You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
20/20
Bad Romance: Doomsday's Bride
Charles had never been violent with anybody. So you kind of start getting a bigger picture of this just doesn't feel right.
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Bad Romance: Doomsday's Bride
The odd part about it was just the complete lack of emotion. It was a very nonchalant. Lori had a big smile on her face. The case like this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. The case is just beginning.
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Bad Romance: Doomsday's Bride
Okay, so you hear the argument, you step out, what's the first thing that you see?
20/20
The Code Breakers
We fast forward to 2012. We're going over the evidence again. The fingerprint that they had found on the phone was in the suspect's blood, and it was still in viable condition to obtain a DNA profile from that. And we enter it into CODIS, and we think, that's going to give us a hit.
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The Code Breakers
Right. There was no forced entry. So our speculation was that it was somebody that she knew or somebody that presented a position of authority that could have garnered that trust to get inside the apartment. All of these questions lasted for years and years. Yes. Yes.
20/20
The Code Breakers
In Kathy's case, we had DNA that was in CODIS, and we had not gotten a match. We'd exhausted the fingerprints, and these things which normally get us a hit did not. So I honestly felt like the genetic genealogy was our only chance for solving this case.
20/20
The Code Breakers
They said, we'll get you a lead back. We're not going to guarantee that it's the lead, but we'll get you a lead.
20/20
The Code Breakers
It was either it was someone that she knew or someone that presented themselves as an officer. It was almost like whispered in the hallways, it could be one of our own.
20/20
The Code Breakers
She was supposed to have plans with her sister and family for lunch. When she didn't respond by phone call, they went by her house and found that her car was still there. Got inside the house with a key.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Mike is so distressed, he immediately runs to a neighboring apartment because he can't bring himself to call the police. Mike does go back into the apartment to find her daughter.
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The Code Breakers
There was a 12-year-old boy and his dad that were staying with some friends that were right next door to Catherine Edwards' townhome. He heard somebody run down the stairs and then a door slam. And a little while later, a car sped off with loud music. There were some other neighbors that heard some loud banging.
20/20
The Code Breakers
It kind of sent a panic through the community. You know, if this can happen to somebody in a really quiet part of town, could it happen to them kind of thing.
20/20
The Code Breakers
But when Brandon presented Othram to me right then and there, I'm like, let's make this happen.
20/20
The Code Breakers
The profilers really believed that whoever it was would return and return to her gravesite. And for years, that was part of our initial rookie training program was, this is Kathy Schwartz's gravesite. If you see somebody at that gravesite, you need to stop and identify them because they could be a prime suspect in the murder.
20/20
The Code Breakers
I remember sitting at the table one night and getting really frustrated trying to map all this out. And she's like, let me help.
20/20
The Code Breakers
I can remember dozing off one night and I wake up and she's got lines going here and lines going there.
20/20
The Code Breakers
And the first one we came across, he was the right age. He went to the same high school with our victim.
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The Code Breakers
There were a lot of similarities in that case that mimicked Katherine Edwards' case. The victim's hands were bound behind her back. She was sexually assaulted.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Correct. They shipped that down here to me. And then once I went through it, I coordinated with our lab here in Texas to see what items would be best to test. And they compared it to the evidence that we had.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We theorize that the assault started in the kitchen because in the kitchen there was passive blood drops on the floor. And then the smearing goes up the stairway to the upstairs bedroom.
20/20
The Code Breakers
I'm not going to say anything. After he makes it outside, you know, that's when we execute the arrest warrant and arrested him.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We got the report back, and they believed it was a family that had lived in Three Rivers. The DNA was male, so this narrowed it down to four brothers. The youngest brother, Barry, and then there was the oldest was Sonny Waters, then John Waters, and then Robert Waters.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Robert Waters was married, had a couple of children, and had been living in Beaufort, South Carolina for quite some time. He was a local business owner and had a plumbing business.
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The Code Breakers
Good, how are you? How can we help you? I'm Sam Smulkin from Three Rivers PD. This is Todd Peters from Michigan State Police. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Can we talk for just a couple minutes? Sure. All right.
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The Code Breakers
And one of the issues we had run into is the Beaufort Police Department did not have the fingerprint live scan machine. So we had to use the traditional ink and paper.
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The Code Breakers
All right. I wanted to tell you, we did submit the print that we did for me earlier. It did match to the one at the crime scene. So at this time, you are under arrest for the murder of Cassie Schwartz. OK? OK. It really surprised me. He did not really react. I feel like he knew when we showed up that morning that the game was up.
20/20
The Code Breakers
Well, let me ask you the obvious question. What about Rob Waters? He came there one time. He came there one time? One time. Okay, do you remember, like, was that close to December? I think so. He knew Robbie Waters had visited the apartment about a month before the murder. We hadn't seen him since grade school. Yeah. Okay, so he just somehow figured out that you guys were living in Riverside.
20/20
The Code Breakers
The plans were already in place. He had waived extradition, so he knew that he was going to be brought back to Michigan.
20/20
The Code Breakers
He had some material that they'd given him in the jail, and it was some devotionals, and the parts that he had ripped out talked about forgiveness and asking for forgiveness.
20/20
The Code Breakers
In the bedroom where Kathy was found is a phone on the bed. The phone cord was cut. but on the phone there was Kathy's fingerprints and then there was also an unknown fingerprint in blood. In 88, obviously, DNA was in its infancy.
20/20
The Code Breakers
You can know the case inside out, but until you see somebody testify and see the raw emotion that's going on, that was raw, raw emotion that they relived on the stand.
20/20
The Code Breakers
There was polygraph examinations that were done with. We were able to verify that he was at work in Sturgis all day long, and there was no way he could have came back to Three Rivers to do it.
20/20
The Code Breakers
So the police department actually rented the apartment for a month after the crime, just so that we could return and continue to look for clues and process. This is one of the first cases where they deployed alternative light sources.
20/20
The Code Breakers
They pick him up for questioning. Troy Schultes admitted that he was the one that wrote on the refrigerator and on the wall in the apartment, but he never admitted to writing it on her thigh.
20/20
The Code Breakers
You know, you look at that and you think, well, that's somebody leaving a calling card behind that they were there.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We had the fingerprints, but we also had a sample of blood that was left behind. We believe because Kathy fought back that whoever the killer was had sustained an injury, and Troy's blood type did not match.
20/20
The Code Breakers
We had fingerprinted and footprinted so many individuals that had been living in Three Rivers at that time, and none of them were a match.
20/20
File M For Murder
We have an individual at the time that could almost identify almost any type of vehicle. He was a big car guy. He said it was a Ford Focus. Like, I like cars, but honestly, wow. We're kind of looking at this several different ways. Is he having problems with a customer with a white Ford Focus?
20/20
File M For Murder
The bad news is that in St. Charles County, there are 1,300 Ford Focuses. In the state of Missouri, there are 5,000.
20/20
File M For Murder
And we looked at that, seeing that they were connected. And in the course of that investigation, we were able to eliminate it from being a part of this case.
20/20
File M For Murder
Police are knee deep in Bob Eidman's murder investigation. And they come upon a really interesting scene. It's an abandoned, crashed white car. And when they tracked down the owner, well, there's a couple of really eye-popping pieces of information.
20/20
File M For Murder
He had bloody clothing on. And he also had one of Robert Eidman's business cards. Why does he have bloody clothing? Is it his blood? Is it Bob's blood? We have some questions we need to answer. This could be it.
20/20
File M For Murder
Travis has what seems like a likely story about why there's blood on a shirt. He said that when he crashed his car, he got a bloody nose. Cops will check out his story, so they're not quite ready to clear him.
20/20
File M For Murder
Now, police turn their attention closer to home, to Bob Eidman's widow, Diane. It is quite routine for police to look at the spouse of someone who's been murdered.
20/20
File M For Murder
When Bob's wife, Diane, was advised that Bob had been murdered in his office, she didn't have a great reaction.
20/20
File M For Murder
I don't want to say it didn't seem like a surprise to her, but she wasn't reacting in a manner that I thought a wife would react when they found her husband shot.
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File M For Murder
Diane wants to go to Bob's parents' home so that she can break the terrible news to them. And during that ride, Diane talks about how she is the manager of the kitchen at the local hospital, and she also offers more information about her beloved husband. She says that there was financial problems.
20/20
File M For Murder
Detective Kaiser continues talking with Diane, and she makes a note that Diane seems incredibly forgetful. She can't remember her own social security number. And then the detective asks her about any existing insurance policies. She was upfront that, yes, I have a life insurance policy through work.
20/20
File M For Murder
Diane initially gave us an answer that she thought they had a couple of small policies, approximately $5,000. Not much, right? Not much.
20/20
File M For Murder
His famous saying was, she's not the person you think she is, and I never knew what that meant.
20/20
File M For Murder
It was an improbable set of circumstances. And to throw into that, the garage door was open about a foot.
20/20
File M For Murder
And the inside garage door leading it from the garage into the house is the only door in the house that did not have a deadbolt.
20/20
File M For Murder
Well, the last note that was found at the scene said, this is for you, Pick, for what you did to me. You know, I made a canvas later on in the neighborhood. No one saw a black male in a black car dressed in all black.
20/20
File M For Murder
Lenore Bolling was charged with the murder of her husband. She pled not guilty. And while she was awaiting trial, she moved in with Bob and Diane.
20/20
File M For Murder
During Diane's initial interview, she was asked if there was any insurance policies. Diane said that she thought there was one policy and she thought it was just a small policy, approximately $5,000.
20/20
File M For Murder
I was contacted by an insurance company and told that there was additional policies for Robert Eidman that we were not made aware of that were quite substantial in size.
20/20
File M For Murder
We did not know if Diane had forgotten to tell us about those policies. Did Diane know about those policies?
20/20
File M For Murder
And as they start looking deeper into Bob Eidman, they make a mind-blowing discovery. This man was leading a double life.
20/20
File M For Murder
And then the commander of the Major K Squad asked me a question that just kind of floored me. I had no idea.
20/20
File M For Murder
How did he feel about you being a policeman? He made fun of me a lot. He did not like that. Wasn't big on police. He got in trouble growing up.
20/20
File M For Murder
At his funeral, my mom was confined to a wheelchair. She was in very poor health. So she goes, how could somebody do this to my boy? I said, Mom, I don't know. I don't know why. She goes, well, I want you to find those people. I want you to kill them. And I said, that's not how this works. You know, I'm a police officer. I can't do something like that. But she was very devastated.
20/20
File M For Murder
And literally three months after his death, she died. She has lost her will to live. It was kind of a rough year, for sure.
20/20
File M For Murder
She never really said a whole lot. She really didn't say a lot about anything. She was pretty quiet.
20/20
File M For Murder
At the time of Robert Eidman's funeral, we set up surveillance and we recorded video of the attendees at the funeral, as well as obtaining the guestbook for the services.
20/20
File M For Murder
Police check out every name on the funeral registry. It takes them nowhere. Meanwhile, it's day four of the Major Crimes Task Force investigation. The clock is ticking, but still no good leads on who killed Bob Eidman.
20/20
File M For Murder
We were striking out. There was no one that could really come up and say, Bob's having a problem with anyone.
20/20
File M For Murder
You know, they put me in an interview room to ask me some questions. I said, you know, I have nothing to hide. You don't have to play these games. You know, ask me whatever you want. And he asked me a question that just kind of floored me. He said, we're trying to find out about your brother's alternative lifestyle. I said, what alternative? He goes, his affairs.
20/20
File M For Murder
You know, I go, you think he's out picking up women? I mean, you know, that just ain't happening. And he said, your brother was gay. I had no idea. We had no idea. We did not know that.
20/20
File M For Murder
While we were analyzing Bob's computers, it was discovered that he was visiting male-on-male websites that were sexual in nature, and he was making contact with some of these places. Sometimes in these murder investigations, as we dig into them, you find a lot about a person's life, their lifestyle.
20/20
File M For Murder
Anytime somebody has a secret and somebody knows it and you're keeping it a secret for a reason, people can use that as leverage to get their way if they want to blackmail you or extort you.
20/20
File M For Murder
They had an intimate relationship. They would rent a hotel room somewhere and visit each other. Automatically, a flag gets raised.
20/20
File M For Murder
It was upsetting. You know, I guess I felt he should have been able to talk to somebody about that. He shouldn't have had to hide that life. He shouldn't have had to lie. Having a relationship and being gay, that's just part of life. And I wish he would have been able to share that with us.
20/20
File M For Murder
Police bring in this secret lover for questioning. They can't help but wonder, would this man have a reason to murder Bob? And what about Diane? Could his existence have set her into a murderous rage?
20/20
File M For Murder
Feelings can run wild with someone. If I can't have you, nobody's going to have you. It gives people motive.
20/20
File M For Murder
It blew my mind when the results came back. It was the golden ticket. This is what we were looking for.
20/20
File M For Murder
It absolutely crossed everybody's mind that this was kind of a copycat murder.
20/20
File M For Murder
She had found out that he was having an affair with another man and that she was very angry about that. They'd had an argument about that.
20/20
File M For Murder
This is one of those bizarre cases where all the evidence seems to be pointing in one direction. Then suddenly, the rug is pulled out from under you, stunning everyone.
20/20
File M For Murder
I was sitting in the same room with the person that shot and killed my brother.
20/20
File M For Murder
A man that loved life, always wanted to have fun, always wanted to enjoy himself. He had a great personality, very funny, you know, very intelligent.
20/20
File M For Murder
Now we've got a whole team of officers from the St. Charles Police Department. They've converged on the scene of Bob Eidman's murder.
20/20
File M For Murder
Robert Ivan's specialty in the insurance company was dealing with high-risk drivers, individuals that could not get insurance through traditional places.
20/20
File M For Murder
This is a huge murder case in a very small town. And with more questions than answers, St. Charles PD needs help, and boy, do they get it. Enter the elite major case squad.
20/20
File M For Murder
20 to 30 detectives will respond, and the only thing they will work on for the next five days is that situation they've been called out on.
20/20
File M For Murder
One of the things that we were not able to recover or locate was Robert Eidman's wallet.
20/20
File M For Murder
We just thought maybe a sample of skin cells could be found inside Bob's pocket.
20/20
File M For Murder
In that video footage, we saw a Ford Focus. We were not able to get a license plate due to the angle of the camera, and we were not able to see who was in the vehicle.
20/20
File M For Murder
Immediately I responded to the area, to the scene. Bob is laying on the floor between the two desks. He's laying on his back and there's a pool of blood around his head.
20/20
File M For Murder
It is quite routine for police to look at the spouse of someone who's been murdered.
20/20
File M For Murder
Bob Eidman had been leading a secret life. And a search of phone records reveals so much more.
20/20
File M For Murder
We found several calls that were coming in and coming out pretty much the same time each day. We discovered that Bob was having an affair.
20/20
File M For Murder
Bob Eidman was shot three times. The first shot was superficial. It was a grazing wound to his chin. The second shot was to his neck, shoulder area, which knocked him down.
20/20
File M For Murder
While doing the search of his home, we located a box the size of a shoe box And it had cards from Bob. It had receipts from when they'd go to dinner or go to a hotel. He was saving it.
20/20
File M For Murder
Feelings can run wild with someone. If I can't have you, nobody's going to have you. It gives people motive.
20/20
File M For Murder
He was on video, and there were numerous people who said, yes, he was here this day. This is the time he clocked in.
20/20
File M For Murder
This was an insurance office and it was a fairly open area. We collected bullet casings, bullets, bullet fragments. We would mark the position, set up little yellow tents called photo markers. We would photograph it. We dusted for fingerprints. You're hoping that maybe you will find one fingerprint that may lead to a particular suspect.
20/20
File M For Murder
Diane Eidman voluntarily submitted to a polygraph and the results came back being inconclusive.
20/20
File M For Murder
When it goes back to our police department at the time, it is frustrating knowing that you didn't solve this case and it just goes on to an active case file to be looked at as further investigative leads come in.
20/20
File M For Murder
When my sergeant came up and asked if I would like to be assigned this investigation, I was overwhelmed. It's one of those things, am I ready to do this? You don't wanna say no, it's an opportunity. I wanted to see this investigation to the end.
20/20
File M For Murder
Don had contacted me and said, I'm starting from scratch. I'm going to take this entire investigation. I'm going to do everything over again. What did that feel like to hear? Well, it was refreshing to, you know, I just felt like there wasn't a lot there.
20/20
File M For Murder
In 2007, I had only been a detective for four years. I was the young guy in the squad.
20/20
File M For Murder
him to feel like there was pressure on him but he met with me a couple times and you know the one time that really struck home is he said hey you're like family and i am going to solve this what motivates me to keep going on this investigation is there's someone or someones who had killed bob eidman bob eidman needs someone to stand in his corner
20/20
File M For Murder
I was off duty and then I was picking up a family member at the airport and Diane was walking my direction.
20/20
File M For Murder
But the surprise of a chance encounter pales in comparison to the shock investigators get when they receive a call from the crime lab. Remember that pocket police cut out of Bob Eidman's pants to send for DNA analysis?
20/20
File M For Murder
It blew my mind when the results came back. It was the golden ticket. This is what we were looking for.
20/20
File M For Murder
And if you don't have a suspect right away, then there's things that take time. So things slowed down, but things did not stop.
20/20
File M For Murder
They had this famous lead about this car that went around the block, and they had it on video. But there were 22 detectives for five days, and they didn't find it.
20/20
File M For Murder
And there's another lingering piece of evidence still out there. That touch DNA taken from Eidman's back pocket, it was sent to the St. Louis Major Crimes Lab.
20/20
File M For Murder
Any time you submitted any kind of DNA information, DNA samples, it was going to be a year or more before you got an answer to it.
20/20
File M For Murder
genetic analyzer that ultimately produces a dna profile but given the cold case backlog it takes several more months for the dna to be processed and when the results come back investigators get a major break that heats up this cold case i developed an unknown male profile
20/20
File M For Murder
I knew once we obtained the DNA profile, the identity of the individual in Bob Eidman's pocket, I knew that was the golden ticket. I knew that was when we were going to be able to close this case.
20/20
File M For Murder
The DNA doesn't match Bob's wife or his secret lover or anyone else the police had been looking into. Instead, it comes back to someone who was never on the investigator's radar.
20/20
File M For Murder
I was very shocked. My mind was not on directing traffic at that time. What did you do then? I started researching Paul White.
20/20
File M For Murder
having served 15 years in prison for robbery. When they got the DNA match, Don had contacted me and said, I'm going to solve this. And I truly believed him. I got to give him a lot of credit. You know, he did a lot of old fashioned work.
20/20
File M For Murder
I wanted him to know right off the bat that we knew he was there. I wanted the truth I wanted to get a confession from Paul.
20/20
File M For Murder
We came to the conclusion that those loud bangs that she heard was the gunshots in Bob's office.
20/20
File M For Murder
What are you thinking when he does that? I'm thinking this is going to be a long interview.
20/20
File M For Murder
There was numerous files on Bob's desk, and there was a file containing Paul White's name.
20/20
File M For Murder
Police quickly worked to gather information about the victim. His name is Bob Eidman. He's 48 years old. He was married for a very long time, had no children, and worked in the insurance industry.
20/20
File M For Murder
What was it doing? I think when Mr. Eidman had seen the car pull up and saw Paul White exiting the vehicle, he was grabbing Sherry's file to be ready so when he came in.
20/20
File M For Murder
We get to the bottom of facts. This is where people have an opportunity to tell us about what they've done and tell us their story.
20/20
File M For Murder
Paul, I believe, was in a little bit of shock. After all these years, two detectives showing up from St. Charles City, he did not expect that to happen that day.
20/20
File M For Murder
I'm thinking to myself, the DNA itself is probably enough to get an arrest warrant, but I didn't want just an arrest warrant. I wanted the truth.
20/20
File M For Murder
I even put a picture down in front of him and asked him, do you know this individual?
20/20
File M For Murder
Eventually he came back around and said, yeah, I thought that was his wife's insurance man.
20/20
File M For Murder
I explained that we were working a homicide investigation, and I explained that his DNA was located in his back pocket.
20/20
File M For Murder
At least 10 or 15 times. He kept saying, there is no way, repeatedly. He did not believe it.
20/20
File M For Murder
with Paul White was I found out that a neighboring law enforcement agency had issued a ticket to Paul White after our homicide in a white Ford Focus.
20/20
File M For Murder
That's right, a white Ford Focus. And remember, that's the very same vehicle make caught on a surveillance camera the day Bob Eidman was murdered.
20/20
File M For Murder
Paul White was a pastor in that vehicle, and the driver was identified via tickets as Cleo Hines.
20/20
File M For Murder
We later learned that Cleo Hines was living with Paul White, and his girlfriend was best friends with Paul White's wife.
20/20
File M For Murder
I was sure of that. I had a couple other officers contact Cleo Hines, and they arrested Cleo Hines and brought him to the St. Charles City Police Department.
20/20
File M For Murder
I was going to take the same approach with Cleo Hines as I did with Paul White. Are you the hardened criminal? Are you a guy that made a mistake? Let's talk about the robbery.
20/20
File M For Murder
I told him we had a positive idea of his vehicle. We had a positive idea of a focus, a white four-door focus.
20/20
File M For Murder
He knew he owned a white four-door Focus. He knew he was involved in this. There was no way that he could fight that.
20/20
File M For Murder
It took a very short time, and Cleo just started talking and talking and talking.
20/20
File M For Murder
A 9mm Glock. The same type of handgun investigators determined was used to murder Bob Eidman. But the question is, who pulled the trigger?
20/20
File M For Murder
And Cleo wanted to give his side of the story to defend himself against whatever Paul might say he did.
20/20
File M For Murder
It's hard to do an interview to get a confession from somebody for a murder. It's really hard to get a confession from somebody for a murder inside prison.
20/20
File M For Murder
White is arrested the next day, and he's charged with robbery and murder and could be facing life in prison. Now, with the pressure turned up so high, will he finally change his story?
20/20
File M For Murder
There was a lot of finger pointing at each other, trying to point the blame to someone else.
20/20
File M For Murder
Paul White offers to help find the murder weapon riding along in handcuffs in the backseat of a squad car.
20/20
File M For Murder
We took Paul White out of the St. Charles County Jail. and had him point out the area where he got rid of the gun. We searched an extensive area far the gun was never able to locate it.
20/20
File M For Murder
Now we have two suspects and two confessions. And with both men pointing the finger at each other, prosecutors are gearing up to put both of them on trial.
20/20
File M For Murder
I was sitting in the same room with the person that shot and killed my brother. And that was pretty hard to be calm. Will Bob Edmund's family finally learn who murdered him?
20/20
File M For Murder
Local reporters have arrived on the scene as well. Those reporters notice that a woman pulls up, and it turns out that she is the now widow of Robert Eidman. Her name is Diane. And Diane approaches the reporters, asking them if they know what's happening. And the reporters are saying that they feel uncomfortable telling her about her husband, so they direct her to the police.
20/20
File M For Murder
As far as any connection between the two men accused of killing Bob Eidman and Bob's widow, Diane, Paul White revealed to investigators that he didn't even know who she was.
20/20
File M For Murder
I met Diane at her place of employment, and I said, Diane, this is over. We have the individuals, and we have the charges on them for killing your husband.
20/20
File M For Murder
I don't believe she was angry at me. There was a lot of stress that just came off Diane. You could almost see it leaving her body as she was shaking and crying. She was very happy that this was over.
20/20
File M For Murder
First up at trial, Paul White, who pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder and first-degree robbery.
20/20
File M For Murder
Really didn't know what to think when I came into trial because I was sitting in the same room with the person that shot and killed my brother. And that was pretty hard.
20/20
File M For Murder
The trial for Paul White lasted three days, which is actually very short for a murder trial in this county.
20/20
File M For Murder
The trial was swift, and so were the deliberations. The jury needed just two and a half hours before delivering a verdict. Paul White, guilty of murder and robbery in the first degree.
20/20
File M For Murder
An Alford plea is a plea in the state of Missouri where an individual will not say, I did it, but there's enough evidence to say I did it.
20/20
File M For Murder
With that plea, Hines is convicted of a lesser crime than White, second-degree murder and first-degree robbery. He received two life terms. But while Hines' sentence offers the possibility of parole, Paul White will never again see the light of day outside a prison.
20/20
File M For Murder
Paul White was sentenced to life without parole in the Missouri Department of Corrections.
20/20
File M For Murder
Yes, we were. She said, I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. You took my best friend. You took my husband away from me.
20/20
File M For Murder
She told the court this in part, I looked over my shoulder for five years afraid, never knowing if the people who killed Bob were coming after me, or did the police really believe that I killed my husband?
20/20
File M For Murder
I do feel like the system worked. The killers were caught. Science prevailed and overwhelmingly provided evidence that got them a conviction. Never again can he come to a Christmas dinner. Never again can we see him for a birthday party. Never again could he and my son talk and have a conversation or a relationship.
20/20
File M For Murder
But Diane said that she hadn't heard from Bob all day, which was odd. And she kept trying to call him and he never answered the office phone. So when she shows up and seen all the police cars, she knew something had happened and she identified herself.
20/20
File M For Murder
Police believe Eidman was working alone when someone walked inside his business, fatally shot him, then took off.
20/20
File M For Murder
Cold-blooded murder is not something St. Charles is known for, and the local cops will probably need some help with what looks like a big investigation. So they appealed to a special group for help.
20/20
File M For Murder
More than 30 detectives with the Major Case Squad are now looking for his killer.
20/20
File M For Murder
This elite major case squad has a very high rate of success. 80% of their cases are solved. But with all this manpower, there's one catch. They only have five days to get the job done. So the clock is ticking.
20/20
File M For Murder
How you doing? We're with the Major Case Squad and we're investigating a homicide that happened here Friday afternoon.
20/20
File M For Murder
Robert Ivan's specialty in the insurance company was dealing with high-risk drivers, individuals that could not get insurance through traditional places, people that had prior traffic violations.
20/20
File M For Murder
He asked me a question that just kind of floored me. He said, we're trying to find out about your brother's lifestyle.
20/20
File M For Murder
There was a drawer in Bob's desk that was locked, and you'd have to use a screwdriver to manipulate the lock to be able to open it.
20/20
File M For Murder
From the top of the roof all through the grass, ditches, sewers, everywhere. We could not find the wallet. Wallet's going to be 90% of the time in a man's back pocket.
20/20
File M For Murder
And to get that wallet out, you would have had the struggle between the wallet and the inside of the pants, which caused some friction. I recommended that we cut the pants pockets out and send them to the crime lab. We just thought maybe a sample of skin cells could be found inside Bob's pocket.
20/20
File M For Murder
When we touch something or brush up against something, some of our DNA is transferred to the other object. If they're located, those skin cells can be broken down into DNA.
20/20
File M For Murder
Yes, sir. It was the first time that I'd ever heard of anybody's pants pockets getting cut out.
20/20
File M For Murder
While one team is feverishly working to gather physical evidence, another team is talking to anyone they can find, talking to family, friends, anything that will help them glean information about Bob Eidman.
20/20
File M For Murder
How would you describe his relationship to authority growing up? Not good. He defied authority with regularity. He had to go to summer school every summer. In fact, my parents tried to bribe him and said, hey, if you can graduate from high school in four years, we'll give you a car. He's like, show me the car first.
20/20
File M For Murder
He kept saying, you know, if I don't make this in the next couple months, I'm not sure. I might go under. Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make it.
20/20
File M For Murder
Think about all that financial stress. At least one person thinks it was taking a terrible toll. I thought he committed suicide.
20/20
File M For Murder
At 10.50 a.m., you see the vehicle drive past the front doors, And four minutes later, you see it drive past the front doors, I believe a little slower, and almost like creeping along, looking for something. Was this driver making sure the coast was clear? It wasn't the greatest picture, I remember that. It's always frustrating when you can't identify the people inside the vehicle.
20/20
Family Lies?
My name is Scott McGregor. In 2013, I was a detective for the Windsor Police Department. Mr. Troklos was found in a bedroom on the upper part of the house, in his bed. We found him that he had been shot three times.
20/20
Family Lies?
You obviously start looking for evidence, and when you can't find spent shell casings, once again you go back to whoever did this, you know, took the time to retrieve those casings and not leave evidence behind. That kind of tells us that the person planned this out, knew to cover their steps, which ultimately makes our investigation harder.
20/20
Family Lies?
When we start any murder investigation, we want to do a timeline. We want to start trying to find out who was with John,
20/20
Family Lies?
We learned that John, the day before, the last person to see him was his grandson, Nathan Carman. We learned that through talking to Nathan, talking to We have to treat everyone as a possible suspect. Family, associates, people who worked in the office, neighbors, anything, anyone could have done this.
20/20
Family Lies?
She was an acquaintance of John, who was going to the casino, staying overnight. The night of the homicide, she confirmed that she had talked to John, but she was kind of quickly dismissed as being involved.
20/20
Family Lies?
He had had an alibi that night. It was confirmed. I think he was actually out of the state at the time. I think we found him in Rhode Island.
20/20
Family Lies?
Windsor, Connecticut, a typical small town. Pretty nice community. You know, not a lot of crime.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
In Delta. Uh-huh. And somebody tried to torch our car. So the car actually got torched in Delta?
20/20
Run, Run, Run
What was the relationship between Alan and Alan Jr. three to four months ago? Same. Same distance?
20/20
Run, Run, Run
He's been completely out of character drastically for the last, since January. It's odd for my dad. You've seen him change his character. And maybe not so much see him change his character, but through her, I can't even get to him.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
I'm like, well, Dad, is your home phone hooked up? He's like, no. I'm like, well, how does anybody get a hold of you? Well, Mary doesn't want you to bother me.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
I don't think he had a clue. But he said he couldn't even stand up. He was so dizzy.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
She's being investigated for a homicide. You don't ever know that she doesn't have a gun. If she sees you and she's scared, knows what's going on, it's a real game out there at that point.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
I was a special agent with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement here in the Jacksonville field office. I got a call from Asa County Sheriff's detectives, and they were investigating a homicide in Colorado.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
They handcuffed her and set her right on the ground. She had a blank expression on her face, like a little bit angry looking almost.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
He was much less involved in my life. He was much more distant. I called him, and when I didn't get to his phone, I called Miriam's phone.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
Thank you for coming down and helping us get to the bottom of this. We appreciate it. It's Miriam, right?
20/20
Run, Run, Run
Did he have any enemies, any problems with any of his contracting work going on, any disputes? Would he share that with you if he did?
20/20
The After Show: Unholy Matrimony
Sure, so absolutely. The following day, during daylight hours, we came out and began canvassing the area. And upon doing so, we found this video surveillance camera right here. And this is the camera that actually captured the person walking through the complex with an exaggerated limp, walking towards the BNSF. where Rob was found dead.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
Well, I think that Dan Osborne felt that he probably owed the Macs some gratitude. He was an employee for the Mac family. Whether it's poor judgment or not, or whether it's fear or not, he chose to allow Darren to see his daughter. Based on Osborne's story, police rushed to Darren's condo.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
As we looked around the property a little bit closer, we found three droplets of blood in the driveway near the garage door.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
It refers to ending the problem, and then it also referred to certain weapons that he would need to fulfill those plans.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
The shooter's vehicle pulled into the parking garage, drove up to the fifth floor. Moments later, the vehicle made a three-point turn and backed in so that the rear of the vehicle was facing the Mills Lane Justice Center. I think he knew what he set out to do on June 12, and he followed his plan piece by piece.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
Well, I believe it was a calculated explosion of violence. We know that the judge was shot at about 11.05. The video surveillance camera shows the Ford Explorer's rear hatch being closed at 11.05, and the vehicle flees the parking garage immediately.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
It would take some skill, but Darren Mack has an extensive history in hunting, and I believe for somebody with his firearms background, this would be a very reasonable shot.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
The shooter entered the parking garage shortly after 10.30 on June 12th. That vehicle was captured on the video surveillance system inside of the parking garage, which is how we know what time the vehicle arrived and left.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
They conducted several interviews and canvases. However, they were unable to ultimately determine if it was Darren Mack that was at that resort.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
What prompted Darren Mack to surrender? The only thing that I can think is that he was obsessed with exposing what he believed were Judge Weller's injustices.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
A pair of shoes with some blood spatter were in the suitcase. Some other clothing with what appeared to be blood stains were in the suitcase.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
We know that the judge was shot at about 11.05 and the vehicle flees the parking garage immediately.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
The dispatch call came out of a sniper-style shooting at the courthouse shortly after 11-06.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
Heavily armed police quickly made their way through nearby buildings. You're looking up, you're checking buildings. We could at least narrow down the area the shot came from because the bullet went through a glass window.
48 Hours
Deadly Divorce, Part 1
may have realized that that was going to be the last time he'd see his daughter, at least as a free man.
48 Hours
The Cyanide Killer
Are the calcium pills still at home? I'm thinking there's something more here than meets the eye. Would you mind if I followed you back to your home and collected those? No, that'd be great. Not at all? Okay.
48 Hours
The Cyanide Killer
They tell each other they love each other. There are trips taken together. There are flowers sent.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
A lot of the ladies of the church recalled Bob being on and off the phone.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Bradley was seven, and Bradley remembered Daddy being on the phone a lot then.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
He came back to a woman named Mary Gipp. Did you go talk to Mary Gipp? We tried to talk to her, yes.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
She was a smart aleck. I don't know why I did what I did. She was a bitch. Somebody shot?
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
And I hope they find the guy. My job was to keep an eye on him. Soon. To make sure that Mr. Frada didn't try to take off with the kids.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
He said, hey, Larry. I said, Bob. And he goes, am I going to jail today? And I said, not today, Bob. Soon, but not today.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
So Farrah got her hair done, pulled into her garage. It just so happened that when Farrah came home that night and backed into her garage, the neighbors that lived directly across from the garage saw her come home.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
It was horrible to have to have a child come into a courtroom and talk about it, much less see their dad, and he still loved his dad. It was horrible.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Remember how you felt? Relief. Relief that it's done, that it's over, that we did our job, and that the right thing happened.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Listen, when you're a prosecutor, you want to make dang sure you have the right person who's committed a crime. And when I'm convinced that I have and all the evidence points to that person being guilty, I will very aggressively, following the law and following the rules, do everything that I can to make that case strong enough to withstand a conviction and appeal. Yes, I'll do that.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
No. How can you say that all the evidence against Bob Frotta is hearsay evidence when you have those phone records? You have that divorce motivation. You have all those people he solicited. You have the weapon. No, I don't agree.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Bob Frada was nowhere near the murder scene when Fara was shot. He had definite proof to say Bob wasn't there. Bob was at catechism with us.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
How many people use church as their alibi and use their own children as their alibi? Who does that?
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
There was things that he liked to have performed that I don't know if CBS wants to air on prime time.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
She was upset. She was crying. What did she tell you had happened? She was in bed, and a male came into her house, had a mask on, and stunned her with a stun gun. She was terrified.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
I said, Bob, I know what you're up to. It's not going to work. You need to leave her alone.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
I said, Bob, I told you to leave her alone. And he told me I didn't do anything.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Farah Frada, a very pretty lady, her story was pretty tragic once she married Bob. The marriage was in a lot of trouble. A divorce was pending. It was November the 9th, 1994. That was an evening where Farrah had stopped to get her hair cut with no idea about what was going to happen. At the time Farrah was getting her hair cut,
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Well, $1,000 is not unusual. $1,000 in your glove box on the night that your wife is murdered surely raises a lot of suspicion.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
I asked him a question that still sticks out in my mind today, the way he answered it. I said, Bob, what should happen to somebody that kills somebody? He said, they should go to jail forever. I said, what should happen to somebody that has their wife killed? And he told me it depended on the circumstances. What did you make of that? I walked out and I said, he killed her.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Soon. He's just happy-go-lucky. He's cheesing to the camera. He gave all indications that he thought he was going to get away with this murder.
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
Hey, you know anybody kill my wife? I'm trying to get my wife killed. What about some of these people you work with? Think they might be interested?
48 Hours
With God as a Witness
The shooter and the getaway driver were in a car together on the way to Farr's house, and the shooter was going to hide in the backyard. On that same evening, Bob had picked up all three of the kids. It was his night for visitation.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
There were quite a few women that called in to tell us that they had information for us about Dr. Schwartz.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
Dr. Brian Stidham was a man who came to Tucson from Texas, who brought his wife and family here. Dr. Stidham was an eye surgeon.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
Some of the witnesses that came forward had told us that Dr. Schwartz had said that he would not have committed the murder himself, that he would have someone do it for him.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
What's so significant about this is that this store is across the street and just 400 feet north of the murder scene.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
When we came here, we talked to a woman by the name of Jennifer Dainty. She was a clerk in the store at the time. And she described to us a man who had come in that night who was acting very agitated, who was moving very quickly. I was working that night. A gentleman came in wearing scrubs, walked around the store.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
So when he was walking around the store looking over the things, you watch him and see what they're up to. Plus, he used a phone. Nobody ever uses a phone. She described this man as wearing light blue scrubs.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
How did the scrubs work out? And that particular phrase became a very, very important part of this case.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
Dr. Schwartz wanted to have an alibi at the time of the murder. Therefore, we wouldn't be able to pin it on him. So we needed to find Bruce.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
And she immediately picked him out as being the man in scrubs that was in her store the night of the murder.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
Yes. We are putting together a case where we're saying a doctor hired a hitman to kill another doctor.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
This is the residence inn where Mr. Bigger stayed on the night of the murder.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
So we had a lot of concerns about what is this man capable of? What is he willing to do to get out of this?
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
As I was driving to work one day, I received a phone call from a friend of mine. And she said, are you listening to the radio? They're talking about your case. You need to turn on KRQ.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
There was a man by the name of Danny Lopez that Dr. Schwartz had approached.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
The information in Danny Lopez's wallet told me that he had actually tried to hire somebody else to kill Dr. Stidham previous to October of 2004.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
Putting acid in his eyes so that he couldn't see. That he'd be happy if he was six feet under. He said he wanted him dead.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
First of all, we need to know about the victim. We need to know who the victim is, what kind of lifestyle they led, any problems that they had with anybody.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
What I knew was that Dr. Stidham had worked that evening, did not come home. At his regular time, his wife didn't know what had happened to him. And his vehicle, his 1992 Lexus, was missing.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
I didn't do that. If just one of these women would have called the Sheriff's Department, then we could have potentially prevented Dr. Stidham's murder.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
And he helped children. He was a family man. He was just this wonderful human being. His life was cut short.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
She, according to the detectives there at the scene, she had already asked them prior to them even telling her that her husband was dead if he had been shot, if he had died. So that was kind of an unusual response.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
She told them that the only person she could think of, the only person that disliked her husband was a man by the name of Dr. Bradley Schwartz.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
I thought, there's no way. There's no way a doctor is going to hold a grudge for two years and then seemingly out of the blue attack.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
I think it was very, very fast. It didn't give him a moment to react. He wasn't able to fight back.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
There was blood spatter on the exterior of the vehicle. There was blood spatter on the interior of the vehicle as well.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
I received the call around 11 PM. I arrived at the scene at midnight, and there was a dead man lying in the parking lot over here. I'm Jill Murphy, and I was the lead investigator in the Stidham homicide. Dr. Stidham was stabbed 15 times. This was a very violent attack.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
She told us that Dr. Schwartz had confided in her that he hated Dr. Stidham and that he wanted to see Dr. Stidham six feet under.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
Dr. Schwartz was incensed. He was angry. He felt that Dr. Stidham was taking patients. And Dr. Schwartz, he was powerless to do anything about it because he was unable to practice.
48 Hours
An Eye For Murder
It is shocking to find a doctor lying in a dark parking lot so brutally murdered.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
Morale was affected. Every day we walked in and looked at those pictures and it affected every one of us differently every single day. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
And then we reviewed those tapes, looked at all of the license plate numbers, ran all those plates so that we knew who was out there on East Sprague.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
One of our jobs was, in fact, to get to know the women that worked the street and hopefully gain their trust.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
This is basically the area that she was recovered. She had a hot tub cover placed over her.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
you get close to those families and you watch what they go through and you start going through that too you don't give up frustrating as it already was the spokane serial killer case was about to get worse homicide detectives say the woman's head had been covered with a plastic bag
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
As the sheriff, I had to fight the policymakers in this community to make sure that our funding didn't get withdrawn for this investigation before it was done. We will solve this case when we run across the right person.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
We didn't have probable cause to stop and search that car at that time. They might do that in Los Angeles. But the people in this county elected me to protect their constitutional rights.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
They had nothing to lose. If we start putting information out about our case, who are we communicating with? We're communicating with our suspect.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
Nine, ten women would still be alive. Isn't it easy to Monday morning quarterback We look back now at what we've done. We're not saying we didn't make mistakes. Did we cause some women to die as a result of that? I don't think so, and I don't think that's a fair statement.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
This book is about one thing. It's about money. It's about monetary gain for Mr. Fuhrman. You read Mark Fuhrman's book.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
You got a lot of markers. There are a lot of errors. Mark Furman is about Mark Furman.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
It was a whole learning experience for all of us, and many of us have been involved in homicide cases, but this was our first serial killer case.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
Since the beginning of crime, it's been a cat and mouse game. We educate criminals. When we give them something, they learn how to fight what we do. When we come up with fingerprints, they learn to wear gloves. When we come up with DNA, they learn to wear a condom.
48 Hours
Homicide in Spokane
That would be ludicrous. All fairness to Mark Furman, I have all the respect for him that I do any other convicted felon in this community.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
There was confirmatory tests. There were some spots found on the carpet for human blood.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
This was the home of Ramona Croteen and Jeffrey Croteen. And this is the house where we believe Ramona Croteen was killed.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
We have a trail of Ramona's blood from the master bedroom, down the stairs, through the laundry room, and into the garage.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
Everything that Croteen felt that there was blood on, he got either rid of it or changed it, painted it, or threw it out.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
What forensic scientists said, it came from a spontaneous hit where blood shot out.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
Well, Mel Twining then should have said something because he never said nothing. Sue Ziegler's never said nothing. We at Brook Park never heard of that call. Was that Ramona Croteen? No, I believe Ramona Croteen was already dead at that time.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
At that point, we did believe there was a robbery. We did not believe that Ramona Crote arrived home.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
The more we got to know Ramona Croteen's background, it made us more determined to find out who did this. Detective Timothy Robinson, case investigator for the Ramona Croteen death.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
We started hearing the tidbits. We heard about the headboard, and I was like, wow, that's weird.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
That's it. Basically, he refused to cooperate with the police. He never even asked us about his wife.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
Starting to alter things here. He's changing carpet. We had heard he painted the bedrooms. We're gonna check it out. We're curious now too.
48 Hours
Strange Truth
We learned that when they went into that bedroom, there was a six foot section, four foot by six foot cut out and missing, carpet and padding.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Through the years, they focused on Tim Masters. The Hetrick Homicide was opened and closed, went cold. It was Lieutenant Broderick that reopened the case.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
This was a single-minded investigation. There was one man after one suspect.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
She moved her hand and she heard it go zzzz. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Und dann hat sie es zurückgezogen. Sie war so nah dran.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
There was evidence at the crime scene that eliminated Tim Masters and it was not told to the jury.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Ich habe Broderick im Haus gesprochen, weil wir aus der Meister-Bedung geschaut haben.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Als ich fand, dass sie ihn zerstören werden, habe ich es verloren.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Yes. I wanted to watch every one of the tapes seized. Because I thought she could have been there.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 1
Er wurde von dem, was von Hetrick entfernt wurde, fotografiert.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
in the parking lot. He had been wrapped in what appeared to be an electric blanket. And then outside of that was what appeared to be a blue plastic tarp.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
You actually went down in the storm drain? It's an eight foot tall storm drain that's 15 feet below where we are standing right now. And I actually walked that 94 feet looking for any physical evidence. What I found was that this storm drain was clean. I didn't even find gravel or broken glass in here.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
The tire tracks that backed up to this body were the same make, model, and size as the tires that were on the Penske truck that Tracy had rented.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
Tracy had finally made the decision that she was just going to have to kill David. And she shot him while he was sleeping. Then she rented a moving truck and waited until the cover of night to move his body.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
You use a furniture dolly. It would just be a matter of rolling him onto that dolly and strapping him down.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
And she could just sweep him into that storm drain and he would just disappear forever.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
See, now we're getting back into everybody's line that Tracy did. No, that's not what I'm saying.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
Every item purchased by that woman was found in the home when we searched it.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
I'd heard some innuendo from Tracy and her attorneys that somehow there was this large insurance policy. Everything checked out. There was never anything suspicious about Donna's behavior. Almost nothing Tracy told us checked out. Every trail led to Tracy.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
Since David and Tracy lived together, she was our key witness. She was the one we wanted to talk to the most.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
Once we met her, her demeanor was completely not what I expected or not what would be normal under those circumstances.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
The first thing she asked was how did they identify him, which I thought was an extremely suspicious response.
48 Hours
Tracking a Crime
She could never tell the truth during that entire interview. She was evasive, and sometimes she just out and out lied.
48 Hours
Heartbreak in Williamsport
We thought it was unusual that he would have that, so we photographed it.
48 Hours
Heartbreak in Williamsport
As a remembrance. Basically, don't forget. You get personally involved in it.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
I can't think of anything more horrific than a mother using her child. It's... I don't know.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler had recruited a gang member from Long Beach named John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He's with a gang called Insane Crips.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
They were good, loyal friends and they loved each other. You could look up love in the dictionary and you'd see these two people there.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ja, das war es. Sie lebten dort. Es ist fast so, als ob sie für einen kurzen Trip weggegangen wären und zurückgekommen wären. Alles ist in Ordnung, so wie es war, als sie daran lebten. Das ist das Hauptgebäude, wo Thomas und Jackie schliefen.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Jackie hört zuerst eine Verbrechung in der Stadthalle. Und jetzt sieht sie Thomas Hawkes getötet von John Fitzgerald Kennedy und von Skyler de Leon.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Alonso weiß, dass er seinen Teil machen muss. Er beginnt, Jackie zu überwachen, indem er den Taser anzieht. Er überwacht diese arme Frau und legt sie in Hände. Skyler und John Fitzgerald Kennedy verletzten Thomas Hawks und hängten ihn an. Und dann kamen Jacky Hawks nach unten mit Thomas Hawks und sie standen auf ihrem Bett.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler sagte Alonzo, dass er sich ein bisschen Datteln geben würde. Skyler instruierte ihn, Datteln über den Mund und die Augen zu geben. Und er machte das.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Die Papiere sind festgelegt, sie haben einen Inkblatt mitgebracht. Jackie weint natürlich immer noch. Sie kann sich nicht helfen und das ist verständlich. Sie entfernen einen Handtuch und ein wenig von der Tape, damit sie sehen kann, dass der Instruktor ihren Namen signiert. Sie rollen ihre Fingerprinte. Dann beginnt Skyler, verschiedene Fragen zu ihren Accounts zu stellen.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Tom and Jackie had so much fun on the boat, I'm jealous of what they were able to do with that thing. They got to swim with dolphins, whales, pull into ports of call, go to little bars where mariachi bands are playing. They truly had the dream life.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Und er verabschiedet sich von all dem Papier, rollt seine Fingerprinte und gibt ihm die Informationen, die er beantragt hat.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler came up and punched in coordinates, which sent him out to Santa Catalina.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
He hears that chain come, there's no doubt. Because when Skyler gets behind him and starts to, he actually hooks the anchor to the rope. So now this anchor is now attached to these two poor people.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Er wusste sein Bestand, und ich glaube, das ist der Grund, warum er das letzte Mal zurückgegriffen hat. Und er macht im Grunde einen Reverse-Mule-Kick mit seinem Bein und schießt Skyler. Er schießt ihn so stark, dass Skyler sich von seinen Beinen öffnet und auf seine Rückseite landet. John Fitzgerald Kennedy ist dort, wo du bist. Er sieht das, und JFK ist ein großer Mann.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Und er levelt ihn, er schießt ihn. Es schießt Thomas Hawks aus, weil der Schuss so stark und so violent ist.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Talking about this money that he had to launder, he was very at ease telling us this stuff.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
We've got surveillance videos of her smiling ear to ear, you know, trying to basically steal these people's money.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Er hat mich einfach immer gefragt, mit wem ich verhaftet werde. Als ich ihm gesagt habe, dass es Geldlöschung war, konnte ich diesen Eindruck von Erleichterung sehen.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
We found their video camera. The Hawks' video camera. Yes. We found Jackie's laptop computer and then the batteries to Thomas and Jackie's Sprint Nextel phones. On December 16th we get a call from San Miguel Village, Mexico, saying that the Hawks' vehicle is there.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Und dann haben wir herausgefunden, dass das Fahrzeug eine Woche vorher von Skyler verlassen wurde. Er folgte ihm in einem anderen Auto mit seiner Frau Jennifer.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ich habe Matt angerufen und gesagt, ein Boot dieser Größe wird sicherlich zwei Anker haben. Geht mit den Jungs auf die Boote, zählt die Anker, die da sind.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
He is the only one in this investigation that actually had a conscience. And it was that guilty conscience eating at him.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Skyler was looking for the anchor to push them over. Machain also told police about the muscle for the murder.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Es ist fast schwer, die Wahrheit zu erzählen. Nachdem ich zurückblicke, was er tun konnte, erschreckt er mich. Ich wache immer noch auf.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
They tie him up, he called Jennifer. The time they were killed, he made a call to Jennifer. When they were turning back after throwing these poor people off a boat, he made a call to Jennifer.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ich hoffe auf den Todspenalty. Wenn jemand einen Todspenalty verdient, ist es Skyler DeLeon.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Seitdem das Ganze angefangen hat, schaue ich jeden Tag in den Ozean und sage Hi zu Tom und Jackie. Jeden Tag. Ich mache einen Punkt, wo ich sage Hallo zu ihnen beide.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Ich habe die Hebe-Tubes auf diesem Boot. Ich fühle mich einfach nicht zufrieden. Man beginnt zu denken, nur versucht sich zu vorstellen, was sie erleben. Und es ist zu verrückt. Es ist. Die Boote sind unterwegs. Es ist Nachtzeit. Es ist kalt. Sie wissen nicht, was passiert.
48 Hours
Anchors Away
Es macht mich verrückt. Es macht mich so wütend. Und wenn man darüber nachdenkt, muss man sich das aus dem Kopf nehmen, weil es so schrecklich ist.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
It was a muddy day. It was raining. And there was no evidence of any type of a splash mark on the shoes. There was no mud on the shoes. And each one of the shoes were tied with the shoelaces tied on the outside of the shoe as if somebody had put the shoes on Mr. Dorotek.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
I walked into the room and I had seen blood on the ceiling and I saw some blood across the comforter on the bed.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
He had blood on his face. There was blood near the back of his head. And I could see that there was a rope around his neck. What did that say to you? It was obvious to me that it was a homicide.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
How severely? He had extensive fractures to the skull, had lost a tremendous amount of blood, and strangulation was a contributing factor as to the cause of death as well as the bludgeoning.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
There was only one person, in my opinion, that could have done this to Mr. Dorotek, and that was his wife, Jane Dorotek.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
There was no question in our mind that this assault occurred in the master bedroom.
48 Hours
A Deadly Family Secret
It appeared to be the exact same type of rope that was found around his neck.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Everyone had come off the plane and they had not located Piper, Tina, whoever would have been traveling under that name.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Got up around 4.30 the next morning. Didn't get much sleep that night? No, not at all.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We were interested in talking to Piper. Now, certainly we were not ignoring anything that would lead us in a different direction, but at that point, it was a pretty good place to begin.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Knocked on the door, rung the doorbell, looked in the garage. We can see the Jeep Liberty sitting in there. We were probably outside her house for a good 10 to 15 minutes, milling about, peeking in windows and knocking on the door, trying to get someone to come to the door. Never did.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
She did. We got a call from Sergeant Ferguson, who was sitting outside her house. He saw her vehicle leaving the driveway. A vehicle like this one.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I met Piper and thought she was odd until I met her sister and realized that Piper was the least of the two.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
And what turned out was she began to head south on the interstate. We were heading north on the interstate. At some point, we turned around and got in behind her. And the chase was on. We were certainly following her vehicle, hoping to be able to talk to her one-on-one when she stopped.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Absolutely. At one point she made kind of a last minute diversion from one off ramp, well back onto the interstate and of course we're doing the same little serpentine move. And yeah, I think she definitely knew.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
She pulled into a parking spot. I got out of the car, approached hers and introduced myself, introduced the other people around me. She said, come on inside. And we walked into the open door.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I wanted to ask her, who do you think would have done something like this? And that was a good entree into getting her to talk to us.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
And certainly anyone could understand that a mother concerned about her kids and the police were not putting her in touch with the kids. Anybody could understand that that would be an explanation for some of her behavior.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We had a conversation with her. She was fairly on target with where the kids, kids need to be with their mother, those sort of questions. She said, you bring the kids here or something to that effect and then we'll talk again. We ended up getting pretty much ejected from her house.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I think that neither one of them acted in the manner which we would expect family members would normally act when they've learned that a former loved one has been murdered.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
She left a message for me saying that there were two people, a guy named Kevin O'Keefe and a lady named Cheryl Crider, who was a bartender at this volcano, that could put her in the volcano on that Friday night, which would be pretty good because she obviously couldn't be in Richmond at the same time she was there.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I think that neither one of them acted in the manner which we would expect family members would normally act when they've learned that a former loved one has been murdered. Both of them acted oddly, as far as I'm concerned.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
And you've witnessed some of this abuse, either physically or emotionally?
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
In almost all cases, we never use just one sequencing of questions.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Well, it's definitely not your run-of-the-mill case. You have a suspect flying in from out of state, carrying the weapon with them. You have someone using a different identification. You have wigs and makeup and that sort of thing.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I said, it's Fred and he's dead. My pager went off at about 7.30 a.m. I was a man down at Hearth's Blow Lane, which is about three blocks from my home.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I was concerned about the children. I made inquiry. I said, well, has anyone checked on the children? Officer Harry Boyd's children were close friends with the Jablin children. And no one here at that point knew about any children. So I told them immediately there were three children somewhere.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
All three children were asleep in their rooms. We got them out as quickly as possible through another door so they wouldn't come out into this area of the home, of course, and see Fred in the driveway.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
It was tough for all of us. It was just a nightmare to have to do that. They were, of course, very upset. We explained to them that their father had been shot and that we were trying to find out who may have done that. and that they were going to be staying with me and my family until we could make arrangements to get their uncle and the rest of their family here.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We saw the person had come out here wearing a robe, wearing slippers.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I suspect that someone or something drew his attention back this direction as he was walking down to get the paper and that whatever confrontation took place probably happened right here in this area.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Are you speculating that perhaps Fred Javelin actually talked to this person?
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I think, in my mind, I think so. We'll never be able to prove that. There was no one out here to hear anything like that, but I believe so.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
And that would explain, yeah, the bullets entering through the back of the arm and out the forearm. and the other one entering his back and lodging inside his body.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We were trying to find out a little bit about the victim, talking to neighbors, talking to friends and family, and just try to find out if he had any enemies or anyone that would think to do something like this.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Well, I think initially maybe a student that hadn't done well in one of his classes. That comes to mind.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We were trying to get to his office and see if there's anything there that would give us a direction to go to.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
I learned pretty early on that people said, I have no idea who would want to do this to Fred, but have you talked to his ex-wife?
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
In our conversations with some of the neighbors and people in the area, we knew that Piper did have a sister named Tina Roundtree.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We found that Southwest Airlines had a passenger on their manifest with the last name Roundtree. And, in fact, the name on the ticket was Tina Roundtree.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
We did. And they got their people together. And it's getting closer to the point where the plane is going to land down there. So we were trying to explain to them a little bit about our situation and also get them to get to the airport where this plane was going to land to try to identify the person traveling under the ticket Tina Roundtree. So what happened in Houston?
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
Well, the detectives arrived down there, and they had a couple of detectives, a lieutenant that was down there, and several officers. And as they were approaching the gate, my understanding is that the plane was unloading.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
He was a fairly precise individual. He taught at the University of Richmond. It was his regular pattern to get up, make some coffee, come outside, retrieve the newspaper. At 6.30, Fred Jablum went outside in his slippers to go get his newspaper, and he was gunned down in his driveway. My name's Kobe Kelly. I'm a homicide detective with the Henrico County Police.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 1
They're definitely two peas out of the same pod. Tina and Piper are both the same type of person.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
I just thought that's unbelievable. That's just, right away I'm thinking to myself, this is a bunch of crap.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that you're involved in the disappearance of John Altinger. No doubt in my mind at all, Mark. Why?
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
While waiting for the warrant, police began digging deeper into Mark's background. They were interested in speaking with anyone who had worked on House of Cards, enter Chris Huard, whose character meets an untimely bloody end in the film.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
In that vehicle, we found a laptop computer. They pulled off the hard drive a deleted file titled SK Confessions.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
One of the first lines, it says, I am not sure when I decided to become a serial killer, but it was a feeling of pure euphoria.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
It was unbelievable. I just remember reading it all and just was fascinated by this document going, holy mackerel.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
It just doesn't make sense. And when it doesn't make sense, where there's smoke, there's fire.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
I believe your husband's got something to do with it, and it's quite possibly, you know, could be a homicide. I didn't really go into anything more, but I think that was enough. I mean, she was emotional.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
They had been living in, basically sleeping in separate bedrooms. She was basically living on the main floor. He was living in the basement. So there was obviously troubles in paradise there. We knew that.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
We found out that he was telling his wife he was going to work every day. He had no job. He was getting his friends to invest in his alleged movie-making business with his Hollywood connections. And basically, Mark Twitchell was living off their money.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He thought he was way smarter than the police. One of the biggest mistakes I think that he made was he had no idea how we do our job. And that was a huge advantage to us.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
When we got the word that the DNA matched, we briefed our tactical team, our arrest team, and we had officers ready to make the arrest.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
We got an undercover operator to work the internet and pretend he was an investor. He was lured out on the promise to meet this guy at this coffee shop. And when he got about three blocks from his house, the tactical team swooped in on him and took him down. Tough guy Mark Twitchell peed his pants. He was so scared and it was a little taste of his own medicine, I guess.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
As I told you that night, I knew that you were involved in the disappearance at that time of Johnny Altinger. That's changed slightly. I now know that you killed John Altinger.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
No. Well, he knows not to say anything. Talking to his lawyers, he's not going to admit to anything.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
We do believe as investigators that the account written by Mark Twitchell in that SK Confessions is exactly what he did to John Altinger.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
It was just a huge piece of evidence because not only would it verify what was written in SK Confessions, it would also have a living witness. So it was paramount that we find this person.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
I started tearing up while I was down on the ground. And he's deciding that I've got to do something or die. I mean, it's a life and death decision.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
You know, one of the first things we did was check the police records, figuring hopefully someone called the police on this, and we have nothing.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
One of the things they had found was a hockey mask. The SK Confessions talked about how Mark Twitchell had worn this mask when he attacked both victims, but we figured it was something the first victim would key on.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
It was just an unbelievable interview. It had me on the edge of my seat. I'm sitting there going, well, it's like watching a movie on TV going, well, what's going to happen next?
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
How did he kill John? We know that he lured him to the garage in the same way he lured Gilles Tetreault. And then in this case, because he learned from Gilles that the taser didn't work, he hit him over the head with a lead pipe.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
What was the most damning piece of evidence that you discovered? We had, you know, a luminol test done on the floor. Large amounts of blood had been spilled on the floor of the garage. Probably one of the biggest pieces, a piece of tooth that was found inside there.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
Ultimately, Mark Twitchell drove around with it, according to the SK Confessions document. He even talked about driving around with them and pulling up beside people at red lights and looking at them and thinking that they don't know I have a dead body in the trunk of my car.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
In any homicide investigation, you obviously want to bring closure to the family. So not only do you want to make that phone call saying, we got the guy that did this to your loved one, But in this case, we wanted to say to him, look, we found Johnny.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
When you read all the experts' books about these type of individuals is they tend to like the media attention. So we thought, well, maybe if we drive him around and we'll put a camera on him, maybe we'll just take him to places. Because we had no idea where Johnny's remains were at that time.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
So in order to finish the movie, we find the body, take it back to the people, family. Done.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
And we first drove to his parents' house where he had been staying. We actually demanded that he tell us. He wouldn't.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
Look familiar, Mark? Are we parked right on top of the sewer where you dumped the body? Next stop, the scene of the crime.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
So here we are back at the killing garage, the Dexter garage. Bring back any memories? You want to tell us where the body is now? And get this over with?
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
So all these manhole covers were pulled off in this alley. So anytime I'd see one, I always had my flashlight with me and would get out and actually take a look.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
Mark was willing to turn over something to the police. And right away, when I heard about it, I go, he's going to turn over Johnny.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
They had three conditions, though. One was the police couldn't ask him any questions. The second one was no media could be present and no Bill Clark. So I kind of chuckled at that, so I thought I got to him.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
just up here on the left. It's about a block south of his parents' house.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
And he had marked an X. X marks the spot. It took us right to this sewer cover here. We could see what looked like pieces of human torso down there.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
We felt it was just, like I say, without a doubt, the strongest case I've ever gone to court with. But you always go in with a jury trial going, you never know.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He watched his wife testify. He watched his girlfriend testify with just a blank stare on his face, no emotion.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
Yet he's watching the video of me and he starts to puff up and starts to cry. And he turns around to me and he says to me, I'm sorry for lying to you. And then I put my hand up and said, whoa, Mark, you can't talk to me right now. And I just thought, oh, it was so phony. What did you say to Mark Twitchell in court?
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
If you believe Mark Twitchell in court, it was Stephen King. But everybody knows it means serial killer confessions.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He talks about how he was creating an urban legend and how he was going to lure Gilles in and Johnny in and there was never any intent to kill him and they were just going to be part of this urban legend and then... It would be about a guy who lured people to a garage and they got away and that was the whole plan.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He actually expected everyone to believe him in court. I had a tough time not getting out of my chair and just going, that's a bunch of crap, you know.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
To me, he's a psychopathic killer that we've taken off the streets of this city. There's no doubt in my mind, or I think any in the investigative team, that he would have kept on killing. We caught him on his first one.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
I think that ultimately his goal was to produce a movie on what he had done. He could sit back while he's producing it and just go, these guys are all acting this out, but in real life, I've actually done it.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
To hear how everything happened, It's like you're watching the movies. You see this stuff happen. And you know it's a movie, but now we have it happening in real life.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
So we talked about it and decided, obviously, our first priority was to try and find John. You know, his red Mazda was missing. He had taken his vehicle, it couldn't be found. So obviously that's what we're going to look for first. Easier to find a car than a person. Based on the emails and they talk about Costa Rica, the officers search all the parking lots at the airport. It's not found.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
Well, John's friends were concerned. His friend even questioned him on the email. You know, be careful. And John said, yeah, well, here's the directions. And if anything happens to me, you'll know where to look.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He learned the garage is rented out to an individual named Mark Twitchell.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
In early October 2008, Jill's Tetro was online on the plentyoffish.com website, which is a dating site.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He had gone to the garage and made some comments about a lock being changed. And, you know, based on what I'd been told, I'm going, okay, this sounds like someone else has been to this garage and tampered with it. Police pry the lock off and in they all went. They have a look around and they see some what looks like blood and Mark Twitchell's explaining, oh no, that's my movie prop.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
We did a film about killing a guy in here and I filmed it all and I've been cleaning it up over the last couple weeks. There were some things that were, you know, raising your spidey sense in this one, going, yeah, this isn't right. Something going on here.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
It's a missing persons case. We don't know what foul plays happened here. We don't have a body. We don't even know if we have a crime.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
He looked pretty comfortable in the interview, and when it was done and I watched, I went, wow, that guy interviewed well.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
Detective Murphy goes, you know, and meets him and talks to him and there's this huge revelation about, oh yeah, I bought a red car off a guy. It's like, I remember getting the phone call at the police station just thinking, holy crap.
48 Hours
Scripting a Murder
So as you know, Mark, we're just here trying to find this John Altinger.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
$3,000, that's a large amount of money, especially what's for her. I mean, she doesn't spend money like that. And it just didn't make sense.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
Mr. Guidry was concerned about Stephanie being missing. Whenever we put forth the question, if Wayne Jr. did something to her in the wildlife management area, what would he have done with her? There was a pause and he said, you know, Wayne did mention this hole that he found out in the middle of the woods.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
Yeah, sure did. He was obviously really concerned about Stephanie. He didn't know where she could be. Did you believe him? Yeah, I did.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
Well, see, we know that that's not true. We knew that something had happened.
48 Hours
A Love Affair Turned Deadly
There were a lot of inconsistencies. You know what happened, so you need to tell us
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Streaming on Paramount+. Everyone who comes into this clinic is a mystery.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
We began discussing the alarm system for the house.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
I see two individuals show up to his front door.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Their bodies are the scene of the crime. Their symptoms and history are clues.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
They're both to blame. Who took more action? It's Nick.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Oh, I knew the case was strong. He had motive. He had opportunity. And he was providing us with our case.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott Davis had... Everything he wanted, all his life, and the one thing he lost, couldn't stand it.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Do I think Scott Davis went there with the intention of killing David Kaufman that night? No, I don't think so. I think he went there with the intention to scare him. Small struggling suit. Scott shot him.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
A lot of physical evidence right there where that fire was at.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
It was as if he was coming by us with a flashing sign saying, follow me.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
The same person that killed David Coffin is going to be the same person that attacked Scott. He wanted to get his story while it was still fresh in his mind.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
He was the only person there who had actually seen an assailant or actually had a conversation with an assailant.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
He said, I didn't shoot him. I didn't shoot David. And what struck you about that statement? I didn't know how David Coffin had died. No one knew.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
The whole story itself, once you started taking it apart, started falling apart, like a house of cards.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Whoever had done this had killed one person and burned a house. Why did he let Scott live? You're going to set a fire to try to burn somebody's house down? You're going to set it on their concrete patio?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We all know what's going to happen when someone gets with a baby. They get frustrated. Happens to everybody.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We think in this situation, the other babies are screaming, crying, whatever. You're taking care of them by yourself. You have Ben in your hands. He starts acting up. And you get mad at him and you throw him on the floor.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Yeah. Where did his head hit on the floor?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
A lot of people might think I made that call.
48 Hours
A Campus Mystery Unraveled
It was just an amazing amount of material. One computer had, I believe, five hard drives in it.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
I hate bullies. I always hated bullies. And criminals are bullies. My pager went off. The text message on the pager was that a police officer had been shot. You know, I knew I had to get to the scene right away. And I knew that responsibility was going to fall heavily on me to make sure that everything got done properly. And as I'm walking up, I'm seeing officers walking away from the scene.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
Some are crying. And all have that, like, stunned look on their face because a police officer just got shot. I felt a lot of pressure. to not make any mistakes. I immediately assigned two detectives to process the crime scene. I needed to assign detectives to take care of those two small kids. I needed to make sure they get with somebody that's going to comfort them.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
These little kids that were there, they were defenseless. Eugenia Stollis was defenseless.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
I sent two detectives to St. Louis University Hospital to interview Nick and Isabella, if possible, so we can get some information, better descriptions or anything else that we can glean to help find these guys.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
I got information that there was a potential suspect that was being admitted to Barnes with an injury to his hand and that he fit the description of one of the people involved in this crime.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
Getting people convicted in court, somebody has to stand up and say, that's the one who did it. I saw him do it. It was very, very important that Nick or Isabella identified them because Rose and Ida Rask could not identify them.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
Isabella's laying in bed. She has IVs attached to her. She has heart monitors attached to her. There's beeping and buzzing of the machines. I was just very, very nervous talking to her, because I admire so much what she did. I told Isabella that we're really confident that we had the people responsible. But I told her, hey, you know what you got to do. You got to point to the guy.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
I show Isabella two sheets. Mario Coleman's on one. Liddell Nathan's on another one.
48 Hours
In The Line of Fire
I think Isabel Lovedina is one of the bravest people I've ever known. It's like somebody jumping on a hand grenade. I mean, she was willing to sacrifice her life for all those people.
48 Hours
Who's There?
When you read it, it's kind of a no-brainer. The suspects are identified. These people did it, and now we've got to prove it.
48 Hours
Who's There?
If she's laying in bed, her head should be here, right? Right. There should be a void. There should be a spot. Where there's no blood? Where there's no blood.
48 Hours
Who's There?
You would think, you would see... at least some blood up in this general area up here toward the top of the nightgown.
48 Hours
Who's There?
If she truly was knocked unconscious for that period of time, she wouldn't have remembered anything.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This is our shot. We wanted to catch her cold. Are you nervous? Yeah, I'm nervous.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This is an upscale neighborhood, a very nice house. She's living a pretty good life here.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Everyone thought that Melinda Rash was a perfect person, a great neighbor, just doing everything right.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Steve and I both thought that she's probably going to say, hey, I left that back in Olathe, you're going to have to talk to my attorneys, something along those lines, but she didn't.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She says that she was awakened by these horrifying sounds of someone striking her husband. She sees a shadowy figure, and she runs to the bathroom.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This is definitely not the same story. What happened to the two black guys that broke in demanding bank keys? What happened to, I think you hit him too hard, you may have killed him? None of that.
48 Hours
Who's There?
I accused her. I said, I know you killed him. Either you killed him or he did. What did she say? Well, I assure you, it wasn't me.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She wanted to please us. She didn't want her neighbors to be talked to about this. I don't think she ever shared with anybody about what happened in 1982.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She said they were friends at first, were friends. Well, later on, as their relationship blossomed, she said that there became an emotional bond between the two of them.
48 Hours
Who's There?
I just don't think she wanted to go there yet. She knew if she said that, then that would implicate her further.
48 Hours
Who's There?
This was a place where people felt that they could get away from the city, raise a family, and live a peaceful life. I think when this happened, it hit home. The people involved in this murder are members of the Nazarene Church and go to the college there. So this kind of rocked their community a lot. I'm Bill Wall. I'm a detective with the Olathe, Kansas Police Department.
48 Hours
Who's There?
There are a lot of murders, but this is intriguing. It's got a bit of a sex appeal to it. We got religion. We got a lover's triangle. We got money. And we felt that it was a case that could be solved. It was 19 years old when we opened it up. When I'm reading through this case file, I think that we got a shot. I mean, eventually, you got to go knock on the door.
48 Hours
Who's There?
First time I heard about that case was maybe in the early 90s. Bill Wall was a young patrol officer at the time. It was always kind of a case that had never been solved, and it was kind of a legend throughout the department.
48 Hours
Who's There?
The crime lab came down, and they had some time, and they wanted to use their DNA expertise. You got any old cold cases? We had one. I'll grab this. You want that?
48 Hours
Who's There?
For us, this is uncharted territory. I mean, we really didn't have a lot of experience in opening up cold cases.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Blood splattered everywhere. It is on pillows, sheets. It is on a comforter, a carpet, the nightstand next to him. It's everywhere. I mean, I think this is a classic case of an overkill.
48 Hours
Who's There?
She's awakened by these sounds of someone beating her husband. And then all of a sudden, she's pulled out of bed and taken downstairs. She hears one intruder say to the next, I think you hit him too hard, you may have killed him.
48 Hours
Who's There?
I'm sure some of those detectives back then were thinking, hey, this is not right. There is something more here.
48 Hours
Who's There?
Some questions came up, and in particular, a question about this person, Mark Mangelsdorf.
48 Hours
Who's There?
There's a lot of people that remember this case that were members of the church, members of our community. They all thought that the suspects had been identified. Why aren't we moving forward?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
She downs it. And was the point of taking it because the two of you were going to have sex? Probably, yeah.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
It looked like there was a horrendous fight. Something awful happened here. Well, her body was a mess.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
She had no blood on her face. But I've seen the pictures of her on the floor in the bathroom. There was definitely bruising and cuts and scrapes. When you saw her at eight o'clock in the morning, which is four hours earlier than when the paramedics arrived, there was no blood, no cuts, no scratches, no scrapes, no bruising on her face anywhere? On her arms, on her legs?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Somebody had beat this girl bad. We were interested in the boyfriend, Brian Rendoni.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
So it's now 11.45. Now I'm freaking out. Now you're freaking out. And you're freaking out because?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
But you weren't on the phone with payroll people in between the time that she didn't react to the hydrogen peroxide and you calling 911, were you?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
It looked like the place might have been gone through and cleaned up, maybe. The dryer was actually cycling. Like someone was doing a load of laundry.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
When we were searching inside, we found bed sheets and pillowcases that belonged to the king-size bed in the master bedroom.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Myself and the sheriff's belief, he dragged her by the hair because we found such big globs of hair in the bedroom.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Oh, absolutely, yes. She did not get in this condition by herself. There were dozens and dozens of wounds all over her body, her knees down to her feet, her elbows down to her hands. Solid, dark, purple bruising.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
These parallel marks, they are wrapped around her legs. How does someone get a mark like this?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
I think he was probably whipping her with some kind of instrument. If she bends her knee, these two patterns line up.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
So you're saying that if she was, I'm going to get down and do this if I can, if she's in this defensive position like this and the leg goes down, that this would match up straight across. Correct. And you think this was whip, hanger?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Abrasions or lacerations on forehead, both eyes, bridge of the nose, upper lower lip, inside the lip, She had bit through her tongue, the right breast is lacerated, bruising on the left, and then really the most bizarre part of it were these double, these parallel lines that were all over her legs. It is an extraordinary amount of bruising and cuts. Would you not agree?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
It seems almost impossible to believe that someone could inflict all of that on themselves.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Is it possible that, yes, there was an altercation, but she still did die of an overdose?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Yeah, I would consider that. But the thing that convinces me and that persuades me that this is a murder is the medical examiner who actually did the autopsy says that all the markers of smothering are present.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
I was a narcotics detective for 22 years. I saw a lot of overdoses. Never saw one where it was violent, where people threw themselves into a closet or where people thrashed themselves up. Never saw it.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
They usually fall down right where they're at and, you know, massive heart attack or their heart just stops or they wake up in the morning not breathing and they're dead.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
You didn't feel that the scratches and lacerations and bruises, et cetera, spoke to that?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Right. It didn't look like it was ransacked like it looked like upstairs. Upstairs was a completely different story.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
I was stunned. I was literally speechless. Actually, I said, okay, stop joking. Really, what did they say? No, not guilty, both counts.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
And sometimes if you have a complex case, it's hard to explain that to 12 people and make them understand what happened.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
When you came around this corner and just took a first glance at this bedroom, What was your impression?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
When you first looked at those pictures, though, I mean, she is covered, literally head to toe.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
There'd been a fight. And as I walked in the bedroom, oh my God, it looked like a bomb went off in the bedroom.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
I think it's a travesty of justice. I firmly believe that he killed her.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
The closet was broken. There were globs of hair on the floor. The bedding was all over the floor. There was a big wet spot on the bed.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Well, Jesus took that word you gave, and that's why I'm here today.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
This would have been where the king size bed is. And there was two large bloodstains, one near the head of the bed and one in the middle of the bed. The doors were off the rails. The center door was actually broken through. What we saw was blood, and there was hundreds of blood spots back and forth, and there were smears.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
So you can tell that the person that was bleeding was moving in a crouched position back and forth against this wall.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
She crawled in here to hide. I believe that he was trying to get her from this side. She'd move to that side. He'd come to this side. She'd move to this side.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
As I walked into the bathroom, there was the victim laying on the floor. She was naked. She was laying on her back. Her eyes were open, and she was staring straight up.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
When I walked in the room, I noticed the boyfriend, Mr. Rendoni, was sitting with his arms on his legs and he had his head down and he was just sitting very quiet, very still. The impression I got that he wasn't upset. There was no emotion. And my God, I mean, even if I had a dead stranger upstairs in my bathroom, I'd be very emotional. I just point blank asked him, what happened?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
He looked up at me. He was not crying again, which I thought was a little strange. And he said, we both use GHB and we were having rough sex.
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Did you tell a cop who was there that morning that the two of you were having rough sex?
48 Hours
The Preacher's Obsession
Why would I lie about that? I have a clean, perfect record. I'm straight arrow. If it's true that they did have rough sex, if it's true that they were under the influence of GHB, sometime during this rough sex, he got too rough with her, and I firmly believe that this is a murder case, and he killed her.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
And she had also had a raincoat pulled up over her face to protect her from the elements, very unlike the other cases.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
She was found fully clothed. She was not a victim of any blunt force trauma.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
She gets into the vehicle with him, expecting to head west. And we've got a certain number of hours where Jane's basically missing. In the early morning hours, March 21, 1969, Jane's body was discovered in the Denton Road Cemetery.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
We had no idea that this person even existed. I've never been involved in a case this encompassing. This is the turtleneck shirt that Jane Mixer was wearing. This is her jumper dress. This case got to me.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
This case had kind of fallen through the cracks. I just didn't feel that we could give up on it. This was tied around her neck as a ligature.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
This is all the evidence that was collected during the investigation.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
These are the pantyhose that were on her body. We took these to the lab. The forensic scientists took the cuttings from the areas that they located with the possible staining and did the DNA analysis.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
It's a picture of the body lying inside the fenced area of the cemetery, covered with a yellow raincoat.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
Jane's case was just too different. The fact that she was placed in that cemetery with her belongings, very unlike the other cases.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
I certainly felt that someone had gotten away with murdering Jane.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
When we arrived there, it was 10.30 in the morning and it was a cold, crisp morning.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
We saw what appeared to be a body of a woman lying underneath some clothing on top of a grave. We first lifted off the uppermost piece of clothing, which was the raincoat. You could very quickly see that she'd been shot in the head. And then around her neck, we could see a nylon hose, so she'd been strangled also.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
Well, it probably grabbed my attention because it was a singular round spot of blood dried. I didn't know what it meant, so I thought, well, we'll find out later.
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
How long can you have young women being killed before the pressures become so great because you as the police can't solve this?
48 Hours
The Mystery of Jane Mixer
One of the first women admitted to the University of Michigan Law School. Very promising future ahead of her, and her life was stolen.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
The real hope was that there'd be some physical evidence. There'd be a fingerprint. There'd be something that we'd come up with that would match up with him. And that just didn't happen.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
What it really comes down to is I'm accountable to God and I'm accountable to Peggy Hetrick.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Well, I believe that I followed the evidence, okay? And the evidence pointed to Tim Masters.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Well, you can find DNA evidence, and it may have an innocent explanation.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
of wanting to hang on to information not knowing its future use has helped tim masters because had i not done that it wouldn't have been able available to be tested peggy hetrick's clothes would have been destroyed everything everything would have been destroyed that may not mean much to tim masters struggling to put together a new life he's got some unlikely new friends
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Hey, if there's evidence out there, let's see it, but there's nobody that's come to me, and I haven't seen yet anybody that can controvert all these facts that point to his guilt.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
That's a position and a strategy they took without a doubt. And it wasn't? Oh, absolutely not. You know, there was no effort to pinpoint just Tim Masters on this case.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
I made detailed, thorough notes, detailed, thorough police reports. My notes were represented inside those police reports.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
Well, I mean, obviously the defense is free to make that argument.
48 Hours
The Peggy Hettrick Case - Part 2
There was no effort to pinpoint just Tim Masters on this case. It just doesn't add up that there was anything other than to just do the best job we could with a case that could have remained unsolved.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Back in 1977, Tony Sirico was an upcoming actor and he knew some of the same people that Krista knew. We know that after Krista was killed, Tony Sirico was sent to her residence to check on the welfare and watch over her roommate for a few days and to make sure that she was okay. According to the roommate, Tony Sirico removed some tapes out of Krista's room never to be seen again.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
That's Tony Sirico right there with the blood, but that's part of a film they were making.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Not exactly. Mr. Sirico told us at first that he didn't even remember the victim. He didn't really know Krista and that he didn't even remember that she had been killed. And then his memory got a little bit better that, yeah, I think I had heard about her being killed, but I didn't really know her that well. I just met her in passing.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We started getting to the point of where he was on that day and asked him those type of questions, and the interview was abruptly stopped by his attorney. And we explained to Mr. Sirico also that he was not, was not a suspect in this investigation. He was considered a witness and someone that we were trying to glean information from.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We don't know if there may have been extortion. A lot of people have told us that there's a diary that's missing.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We believe that he didn't want her reputation soiled, didn't want the information out there about her surreptitiously recording people or even her sexual activities.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
This is another gentleman. We haven't been able to locate. Can't talk to him because he's dead.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
She had a lifestyle that was provocative. She had a lot of upscale friends that were famous, some of them. And then she also had a lot of friends that were on the seedy side of life, if you will, street people.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
It's very interesting to go back and talk to these people because people can't remember what their lies were. They can remember what the truth is.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
The neighborhood that we responded to in 1977 was a pretty upscale neighborhood. I was the lead detective on the case. I think we came in from this direction. We drove in this way.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We found out that she was a party girl. She had come from a party with a girlfriend. She was headed over to see her agent, Sandy Smith. The house looks the same now as it did then, doesn't it? Exactly. This is me right here.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Bringing back some memories? Well, yeah. Yeah. She was bleeding quite profusely there. You could see that she had numerous stab wounds in the chest. Our thoughts then, we had a rage killing, that somebody was really upset with this girl.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Well, the way she was attacked really sticks out. It was violent, a lot of passion involved. She was stabbed 22 times.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He was very flamboyant, very strange. He would do certain things like wearing nothing but a cowboy hat and a gun belt with a six gun on it. And that's the way he walked around the house.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He's a violent kind of guy. He's known to carry guns and knives. We spoke to his ex-wife, deathly afraid of him. Said that he would threaten her.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He was in that other circle of friends, what we call the dark side of her life, the street people, the drug dealers, that would come to these parties.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
They did question Rudy, yes. They questioned him. He denied any involvement. Rudy was the kind of guy that would brag about things that maybe he didn't do just to get some notoriety and to boost his standing with people.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Was he serious? We don't know because the person he bragged to is deceased and so is Rudy, so we can't talk to either one of them anymore.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We've identified people that she was involved with who had other girlfriends, and those girlfriends found out about Christa. There were a couple other females that we believe that she was involved with sexually that were upset because she would be with men.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We were told originally that they were boyfriend, girlfriend. Some come back and say maybe casual dating. Some come back and say, well, that they were a pretty heavy item. I believe that Debbie had a more serious commitment to Blair than Blair did to Debbie.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We interviewed Blair Aronson and he explained to us that he and Krista had spent the night together, were in bed and they got up, were sitting on the edge of the bed and happened to look over and saw Debbie looking through the window waving at him.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Blair and Krista were startled, obviously, by seeing her outside the window, but they laughed about it and she ran away.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
And apparently she was very upset about it at that time. We don't know if she was removed by Frankie Crocker or by Krista herself.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
I don't think I would characterize it as that. I think when somebody is in a violent rage, I think their gender doesn't matter.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
It's obvious to us that she put up quite a fight. And a lot of times in that situation, you're going to find skin cells or blood or something from the other person under the fingernails.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Well, we are requesting from people that we interview, at times we're requesting oral swabs.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We did collect DNA from Debbie Danilo, and it was not her DNA that was under the fingernails.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Tom and I are in agreement. Debbie Danilo is much farther down on the scale as a person of interest in this case now.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Patty and Krista had a relationship, according to more than one person. They had a close sexual relationship and a professional relationship. At some point, they had a falling out with one another, it looks like, according to these people, and was it serious enough for a murder? We don't know that, but we'd like to talk to Patty about that.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Hopefully she's home. Hopefully we can get an interview and maybe collect a sample of her DNA.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
She was in Southern California. We know that. But for some reason, she's denying ever being there in her life. I got a feeling we'll be back to talk to her again. I really do.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Sal Mineo's killer is the same killer that killed Krista Helm. In my own mind, I'm so sure of that, I bet the deed to my house that he is A1 number one suspect.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
The method of operation, the area of operation, was so similar to Sal Mineo's killing. It was almost identical.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
I don't even know what he looked like. They never saw him. Never got the chance to talk to him.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
I think this case has affected me personally more than any I worked. And you're not supposed to get involved. You're supposed to put everything behind and you're neutral. You're just doing a job. But with me anyway, I couldn't put this one to bed.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
He has been in and out of jail since this occurred. He's been arrested for other crimes. We believe we have an idea where he is living. We believe that he's not that far away, and we're going to go talk to him.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
The crime scene where Krista Helm was murdered in 1977, she had left a party in West Hollywood and she was attacked and stabbed numerous times. She was a very good looking girl.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Oh, you're doing fine. She was not against posing in seductive type photos.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
Well, actually, you try and go back in time yourself. I mean, you try and go back and look at it the way it looked that night. When we're talking about is in the middle to late 70s. I know back then it was a lot of the free love, a lot of the... Sex. Sex, drugs. Drugs. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
48 Hours
Hollywood Secrets
We don't know if there may have been extortion or a thought of extortion. That scared me a lot.
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
Well, my question to you is, would you be willing to take a polygraph?
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
The only way that print could have got there, the only way that print could have got there was in the process of the crime. That is the only way. And it's yours.
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
You cannot deny this anymore, okay? Here's the deal. An altercation went down between you and Nona. Listen, listen to me. It went down because she's seen other guys. Listen to me, listen to me, listen to me. You do know. No, I don't. You found out. No, I never found out. And there's an altercation.
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
Yeah. Did that register on you that you could go to the penitentiary for the rest of your life?
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
Do you remember touching that light bulb? No. To this day, I don't remember touching the light bulb. Was he guilty in your mind when you first sat down?
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
But do you know how strange that sounds, that... I mean, that you would take this cell phone because, by your own admission, you're a cheapskate? It's a little ghoulish, I guess.
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
Just to set aside my curiosity tonight, did you hurt her tonight? I wouldn't. to kill myself before I hurt her.
48 Hours
Beauty Queen Betrayal
Give me a timeline of the events that happened last night going into today.
48 Hours
The Imposter
I'm sick of this bull . I've been dealing with this all week. Tell me who you are. Clark Rockefeller. No, you told me you are not Clark Rockefeller. Clark Rockefeller doesn't exist.
48 Hours
The Imposter
Who are you? I can't tell you. Why? I can't tell you. Because you've done something that somebody's looking for you for, right?
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
I think Escondido Police Department acted within the scope of their responsibilities, absolutely.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
I think not being there. So I don't know what they were thinking. So I'm not going to guess.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
on Richard Tewitt and the three boys. I think the pendulum can swing either way.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
Some people just don't want to believe that 14- or 15-year-old kids are capable of killing.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
He says, I'm looking for the girl. And I said, well, there's no girl here. You have no business here. You just need to get out of here.
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
Why would you hypothesize about a situation like that, especially to a seasoned homicide investigator? Why would you do that?
48 Hours
Coerced Confessions
Aaron is a very methodical young man. He knows what he says and why he says it, and he's very, very specific. Aaron tells you that Michael had said he really wants to kill his sister, and Aaron says, I'll help you do it.
48 Hours
Introducing Trained to Kill
The blood on the walls, the blood on the carpet, it told a story of what took place.
48 Hours
Introducing Trained to Kill
I've never seen in my career a case that has as many twists and turns and mysteries as this case with Mark Stover.
48 Hours
Introducing Trained to Kill
His eyes went just crazy. He clenched his hands and fists, and he was just in a shaking rage.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
The video starts expiring. These DVRs, it's a constant. You got to get this evidence before it disappears.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
If we were just investing in Christy and Hilda's alone, very difficult.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Police have arrested three men in connection with the deaths of a model and her friend last month.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Kind of played with the rotation and it worked out exceedingly well.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Pierce says, I hope Ansbach's not up there telling them I gave them drugs and wine.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Got a call at home, apparent overdose. Christy, she was deceased. Hilda was still on life support at that time. I give as much information as I can to the detectives. Jan had put a number of things out on social media, and it spread like wildfire. People recognized this guy right away, and they were urged to call us.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Christy's lying on the couch. It looks like she's on her way to becoming unconscious.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
So he got on his stand and he did his best to try to say everybody was wrong and he was right.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He was apparently the only one telling the truth at the entire trial.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
So Osborne's role was to help get rid of the bodies, first and foremost. He helped carry the girls at first. He helped formulate the plan in terms of what they're going to tell the security guards.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
For a fresh case, it's all on you. There's no... No one else is gonna solve this thing for you. It's you and your partner. That's it.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
I don't think I breathed at all until I heard a guilty on every single one.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
This must be adding up to something that sounds very sketchy to you. Very sketchy, but then you still have to figure out if an actual crime occurred.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
They never give their names, never leave their phone numbers, license plates, anything like that.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
You don't want to form an opinion prior to getting there, but you are kind of mulling over the evidence. You're thinking about it. You're thinking about what questions you want to ask.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
There was a light on in the upstairs where the two men live. So I just went up, knocked on the door. Immediately, the lights go out. You identify yourself? Yes, completely. LAPD, open the door, and then just complete silence.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
So I immediately get a lie. Do you leave? No, I interview Mr. Osborne.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He changes his stories numerous times. At first, there's no girls had been at that location whatsoever. I tell him on the interview, I listen, I know you're lying. It's extremely obvious. You're very nervous.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Two beds had been stripped. There was a washing machine that had been recently used. It was still wet. Is there anything else that stands out to you? There was a safe in his room with baggies, which was indicative of narcotics. He said they're for crafts, for arts and crafts.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He has a pattern. His first step is trying to find his victim. So that could be through a dating app, through online listings, or meeting them at bars or events. When he picks his victim, he goes to step two, which is bragging about himself.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
He needed to introduce himself as a producer, as a doctor, all these different things. He's none of these things. I think he might have been an intern at the time or something at a production company.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
After they take this drink, he goes to step four, which is the sexual assault.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
This makes the case extremely hard. I told Jan early on that this was going to be a near impossible case to prove. Yeah, at first, it's a whodunit. It just became what actually happened. And that's what was the difficulty of this case.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Following that was glass break activations. We believe that's when the bullets started breaking the glass in the house. That's when Ted died. That's when the shots were being fired.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
We were going to do gunshot residue tests on their hands. We then separated them. And at that time, Jackie broke down hysterically. And what did you make of it? That was a major red flag for me. We knew there was something more to this at that point.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Once we get into the apartment, we're going through it. We're finding ammunition.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
One of the shooters advances towards the master bedroom where Corey is.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
We ultimately see cell phone usage in Austin on February 28th, which is just two days before Ted ends up getting killed.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And Jackie's response to the text message was, do they want 50K or not? And she says, we can't afford to pay half before.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
There was also communication between Spencer and Nicholas, where Nicholas was trying to hire him to kill a family.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Spencer didn't want to go along with it, but Nick still pitched the idea.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And this woman still remembered his name. Sergeant, what are the odds of a hit like this on the identity?
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
I know why you're here. That kid who hired somebody to kill his jewelry store parents.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Theodore Shaughnessy was shot dead in his Austin area home by an intruder. Cory Shaughnessy shot back at the intruder and wasn't hurt.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Detective Moore and I interviewed him. He did admit that he had met Nick. He gave us a lot of good information.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Is she innocent? Absolutely not. No, she knew. She knew what he was trying to do. She could have stopped this at any time. I tried to stop him.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Off of the murder of you and Ted? Yes. I'm not defending her by any degree.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Who took more action? It's Nick. You take Nick out of this, you don't have the incident. You take Jackie out?
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Our job ended at the arrest, and there's not a single step further that we can take it.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
It looked as though there was a home invasion and a homeowner was killed.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
He was shot in the head, the back, the thigh, and the buttocks.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Somebody took the screen off, set it next to the window outside,
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
There's a .40 caliber gun box in that drawer. It's missing out of the box.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Our goal was to just try to get as much information as possible.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
She's the only person in the house, and we have her husband who has been shot to death. We know that she owns firearms, so it's obviously an option for us.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
I tell him it looks like somebody came into the home and shot your dad to death. And how did he absorb that news? He asked me, did he suffer? Was that an odd question? It definitely struck me as odd, yes.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Nick and Jackie continuously tried to talk to the media. We asked them to stop and to stay in the scene.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
him going to that side of the house to look specifically at that window, which you can't see from just the front of the house. So for him to know that that was even involved, he did not have that information.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
This was early morning hours. Two shooters enter the Shaughnessy home. They quietly move through the home.
48 Hours
Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Sometimes people will get information from crosstalk with detectives or law enforcement. And so I didn't automatically
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
Please swear from the testimony you're about to give in the matter of minutes.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
They had gone ice fishing and had dinner at her house, and then he left her house around 8.30 that night.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
She remembers hearing the gunshots, but she thought there was a good five or ten minutes after he'd left to when she heard the gunshots. So she didn't think he was anywhere near the area and didn't think twice about him potentially being involved in any way.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
That night? Yes. We had a little bit, but there wasn't a lot to go on.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
A fourth incident occurred on February 6th. It's another residence. It was occupied, but nobody was hurt inside. There were five rounds that were shot into. It was occupied. Fortunately, nobody was hit. The residents were struck multiple times by gunfire. Nobody was injured. Patrol officers located one .45 caliber, located in multiple casings, .45 caliber.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Two incidents that happened in North Haven the night before and then earlier that morning.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
The common denominator was the caliber of the gun that was used. It's 45 caliber casings that were located at all four of those scenes. And in the last two shootings, there was a description of a dark colored SUV.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
There's a very good chance. the vehicle matched. And the items that were left behind at the Arby's restaurant, it included a .45 caliber handgun, and that matched the casings that were at the scene.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
The first thing I want to know is who he is and if there's any connection between him and Kevin. I see that he has a Facebook page.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
There was not much activity at all. His last post was back in 2016, and he had a few photos with some other students, but that was it.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Yes, that was the first time we got the connection between him and MIT. So I check his friends list to see if Kevin is in there.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Now we have a connection. I got in contact with her. She explained that they had met at MIT back in 2019, and they were more associates than friends.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
No. She said that they never dated. They never had any romantic relationship. The last time she spoke with him was May of 2020. He reached out to her through Facebook Messenger to congratulate her on graduating. He asked to FaceTime with her, and she politely declined it.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
She was, and that's when I told her that he was a person of interest in this. And she was completely shocked. He was barely a part of her life, and why he would have been involved with this in any way.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
On February 6th at around 8.30 p.m., we get the report of a person shot at Lawrence and Nickel Street in New Haven. That person was later identified as Kevin Jong and was pronounced deceased on the scene. We located eight .45 caliber shell casings. There were a few 911 callers that saw a dark-colored SUV flee the area.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
The last things that she had posted were the engagement between her and Kevin.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Yes. It did seem like there was a secret obsession of Pan's going on behind the scenes that Kevin wasn't aware of and that Zion wasn't aware of.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Yeah, he did his best to mislead us. And now we knew that, yes, this wasn't a random incident out there, that he was targeted.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Kevin's body, he was laying on his right side. His feet were on the stop line here, and his head was towards the first line of the crosswalk. And then we see the casings. There's a shell casing by the bottom of the S and a few feet from the P. And then there were six more spread out by the first crosswalk line. We could see gunshot wounds to his upper body and to his head.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Yes. We'll use Facebook as a tool to try and get a little background on an individual who they're friends with.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
The patrol officers had already been out there canvassing the area. They were knocking on doors looking for anyone that might have seen anything or heard anything. The crime scene detectives were starting to locate all the shell casings.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
What we could see were gunshot wounds to his upper body and to his head. And you could see stippling on the left side of his head.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
About 100 feet down the street... There was a Prius just parked in the middle of the road with its hazards on.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
There was an impression that was left on the back bumper that looked like a license plate holder.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
When they look out, they see a Prius come to a stop and put its hazards on. They see a dark-colored SUV pull up behind it and then reverse back towards the intersection. They see the operator of the Prius walk out. and approached the SUV, most likely to see how they were, exchange insurance information.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
When the operator gets to the black SUV, they hear a round of gunshots, and they see the muzzle flash from the gun from the driver's side of the SUV.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
When she looks outside, she sees a subject wearing all black standing over another individual who's laying on the ground. She hears another round of gunshots, and she can see the muzzle flash from the gun as he's firing.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
There's a little bit more to it. It seems a little bit more personal when you have someone that's laying on the ground and not moving. What would cause someone to continue firing at them?
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
We hear the collision between the two cars. And then that's when you see Kevin's Prius pull into frame and the SUV pulls up behind him and then reverses out of frame. You see Kevin exit his vehicle and then walk out of frame to approach the SUV. You then hear two gunshots, a scream, and then six more gunshots.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Unfortunately not. You could kind of get the idea of the potential make and model of it with the taillights, but you couldn't discern any identifying features.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
We had detectives in the bureau looking into each of the incidents to see if there's any more of a connection to link them.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
When the casings are sent to the lab, they all came back as matches to the casings found at the homicide.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
It could have been a road rage incident that turned a little too violent.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
And if he was specifically targeted, what could have happened in his life to drive someone to do this?
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
You want to be direct and upfront and make it clear, as horrific as it is for them. So we explained to her that he was shot and killed in the area of Lawrence and Nickel Street in New Haven.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
The first shooting occurs on December 11, 2020, at Huntington Street in New Haven. There's a report of five gunshots in the area. The residence was struck multiple times. The house was occupied, but nobody was hit. When police responded, they located multiple .45 caliber shell casings at the scene. There's a second shooting that occurs January 15th, 2021. The third shooting occurred February 5th.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
It was just the two of them, and he was actually supporting her. She told us that he was a grad student at Yale University and was in the Army National Guard.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They had it on a speakerphone, so Scott and Mary Kate, the daughter, were both heard on the 911 call.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
I would describe him as emotionless. He never acted as though Suzanne was even his wife. He talked about what a good manager she was and how she kept their business flowing. But he never once mentioned that she was a good mother or that he loved her.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They were both there. There was a fight. There was a fight, and he killed his wife.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yes, and he started stressing out and started sweating, and he became more defensive.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
There was one in particular where she had some pretty strong words towards Scott.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
She was making some kind of noise just from the compressions, but I think she was already dead.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Suzanne apparently was one of the few women who was involved in this forum. She kind of threw out that if Donald Trump won the presidential nomination that she would post a picture of her bare breasts.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yes. If it's something that's building up in him, some kind of anger or jealousy about what his wife's doing online without him.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We get notified by our sergeant to come out to a house and begin a death investigation.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He wasn't able to collect because that death certificate was ruled as a homicide.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Every day that went by, he felt a little bit more at ease, I think.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They met through Facebook. He was infatuated with her.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Well, as soon as you go into the front door, the stairwell was right off to your left. Suzanne was right there. She had a blanket covering her body.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We could see the other things laying around, like this stainless steel soup pot, a purse, an empty medication bottle.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Mary Catherine testified that she saw the dogs pulling at the scarf around her neck, and none of that came up during trial. the day we interviewed her the first time.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Well, I know that she was still close with her father.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
And then the scarf was a little bit further down away from her. The deputy coroner, during her preliminary body exam of Suzanne, the injuries weren't consistent with somebody falling down the stairs.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
I think the first day, there was mention of dogs maybe pulling on a scarf.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We didn't get the impression that it was any kind of violent pulling.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He had plenty of time from when he applied pressure to Suzanne's neck till she died to stop what he was doing. He still did it. I was a little disappointed that it was a second degree
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
I'd like to think so. Probably all of us would like to think so, that we could just figure it out as soon as we walk in Sherlock Holmes style.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
To us, he was a victim. We were going to a house where two kids and a husband just lost their wife and mother.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Is it a steep stairway? Yeah, it's pretty high. I believe it was 13 and a half feet from the floor to the top of the stairs.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Suzanne had injuries to pretty much her whole body. Her face was all bruised up. Her back was bruised up. Both arms and legs had bruising and abrasions.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
They definitely stood out, especially that steel puck. It almost looked like it was placed there. It wasn't upside down or leaning against anything. We had to figure out why those things were there.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He was just kind of going with the flow. How cooperative was he? Oh, very. Everything we asked of him, he gave us. He signed a consent form that gave us permission to search his house.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Suzanne had a history of migraines. They were typically debilitating, requiring a dark room, quiet, and bed rest. And she had been suffering from a migraine that weekend.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Sometimes she carried around a bowl in order to have it near her bedside in case she threw up in the middle of the night.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
According to Scott, everything was fine. They had a good relationship.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Saturday night, she was on the couch. Eric came down to see her, check on her, make sure she was okay.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It was Mary Catherine's idea for Suzanne to spend the night in that room. It was clean, according to Mary Catherine, and done up like a little hotel suite for Suzanne to convalesce in there.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
And what did he tell you he heard? Well, he heard loud voices arguing, but he didn't describe hearing any physical confrontation.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Well, again, that's one more piece of data that we're going to collect. It doesn't mean one way or the other that it was a murder, but that's definitely an avenue that we would have to pursue.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
That was Mary Catherine's scarf. It was found in the same room as Suzanne's body. But the scarf wasn't on her body. When we arrived, it was not. Mary Catherine told us that she had to remove the scarf, and she did that not to impede mom's breathing.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Especially with the ligature mark across her neck, it just didn't make sense.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Could have caught on a banister. Sure, I suppose so, but we didn't have any evidence of that.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
No, nobody described hearing a fall down the stairs or if Suzanne had been carrying that stainless steel pot. No one heard that bounce down the stairs or land on the tile floor. There was no evidence on the stairs of someone going down, like broken ballast or anything like that.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It was a warm day, even though it was November. But when we spoke with Scott and during the whole time we were in the house doing our investigation, he was wearing a beanie over his head. And he said that he slept with it because it was cold.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Tallaga was a new community. It's kind of considered a sleepy little town. Nice place to work, nice place to live.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
We discovered that Scott had some injuries. He had a cut up here on his forehead. and on his arm he had a bruise.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
He didn't know where it came from. He was unaware of it.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It didn't really make sense. Why would Suzanne take the time to make the bed in the middle of the night?
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Once you arrest somebody, that starts processes that you can't stop. Besides the blood in the bedroom, we didn't really have enough evidence of a fight occurring. So at the end of the day, there wasn't enough probable cause legally to arrest him.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
It's not something they want to rush into. It's not something they want to make a rash judgment on. The doctor wanted to examine the whole case more clearly.
48 Hours
The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
None of their immediate neighbors knew anything about the family. Eventually we contacted whoever we could out of their contact list to try and find out more.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
John Bonnet got up, and somebody in that house, legally, lawfully in that house, one of the three of you, also happens to be up, or gets up because she makes noise. There's some discussion or something happens. There's an accident. You're on down the wrong path, buddy. Somebody accidentally or somebody gets upset over bed wetting. That's one of the things that's been proposed.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
That would be John Bonnet's room right here on the second level.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
It wasn't uncommon for JonBenet and Burke to ride their bicycles around the alleyway.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
Today's date is... Today's date is June 23rd, 1998. June 28th, 1998.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
speculation by a lot of people that maybe you didn't know anything about the murder maybe questioning john is lou smith a homicide detective them working for the boulder da's office it's preposterous patsy loves both her children dearly but frankly she and john bonnet were
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
If I told you right now that we have trace evidence that appears to link you to the death of John Bonnet,
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
And I'm not talking, you know, somebody's guess or some rumor or some story.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
What have you heard about pineapple? Well, we were asked, you know, did JonBenet eat pineapple because apparently it was found in her system. I think part of the question was what did she eat when she got home. I'm sure she didn't because she was absolutely sound asleep.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
Okay, but let's go back to your line of reasoning here. If they weren't, no...
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
If they're not yours and they're not John's, then they would be somebody else's. Right. But now I'm telling you they're not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the two of you.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
You know, sometimes the simplest, most obscure little thing can be so significant.
48 Hours
The Search for Jon Benet's Killer
Remember that? I remember that, but I'm not here to prove my innocence. I'm here to find a killer in my daughter.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
I look at him and I'm like, you know, Russell, I don't want a child to find Aaron out there somewhere, come across something like that. I said, can you take us to Aaron? He didn't beat an eye. He's just like, yeah, I'll take you to him.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
We load Russell up. He's actually sitting in the seat that you're sitting in now. OK. We got him handcuffed in front. He's basically telling us, okay, turn right, turn left.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Do you see the body right away? You could see the tarp. You couldn't see any portion of the body. Right here in this green tarp.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
So this is a aluminum bat. This coloration, you can see it's red here. This is all blood.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
And he demonstrated for us in the interview room how hard he swung it down on Aaron's head. I went over the shoulder the first time, and then I started going up above my head. I mean, there were five distinct blows to his head.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Absolutely. Time is always of the essence, you know. The only information I had was from the patrol officers and what Sierra was able to tell us on scene.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
I fractured his skull, caved his skull into his brain. I'm really sorry.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
We found several murder plans. And they actually had plan A, plan B. There were multiple plans. And I think, ultimately, they come up with the bat.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
She's pushing it all. She wants to be with Gavin. She wants to be out from underneath the authority of her father.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
She is very manipulative. From me watching that entire interview, she lied. Is it Ellie?
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
And what do you say to Gavin? I said I'm ready when you are. Okay, what did you mean by that?
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
I was certain she had heard the assault, but she hadn't realized that. Thank God she didn't walk out and interrupt this thing. I was very terrified. Based on what she had seen at the house, she knew somebody wasn't okay. She went over to the couch. She felt something wet, and when she pulled her hand up, it was covered in blood. I just was in like a state of shock.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
We can't go to Aaron and ask Aaron, were you abusing your daughter? We may never know the truth. If she told her mom, did she tell her mom ahead of time?
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Have you thought about having a conversation with your mom about that? No. I'm horrified to even talk about it. Who have you talked to about your dad masturbating?
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
she had said that ellie had woken her up and she said she was leaving and that she was leaving because mom and dad were abusive before reynolds could say anything the eight-year-old gave her opinion on the matter and she told me my mom and dad were not abusive
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Sierra could not locate her father, Aaron, and her teenage sister, Ellie. We treated it as a missing person serious assault until we know otherwise. Everyone was out looking. There was also a potential that this was what we could refer to as a no-body homicide. And those cases are always tough to work.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
I think you got to look at it two ways. Maybe she thought she was pregnant, or maybe she's using that to influence Gavin to kill her dad.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
But with your wishing to remain silent, it's really difficult to kind of get to the bottom of all of that.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Yeah. I mean, there's no law against it. So we gave her breaks. There was times where she laid on the floor and slept.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
He was saying that she needed to be sure to say that her dad was abusing her. And he was telling her, we're going to take this to a jury and we're gonna win the jury over. And the way to do that is to cry. Make sure you cry.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
I don't, I wouldn't agree with that. Ellie is absolutely just as responsible as Gavin, except Gavin was the one that took and held the bat in his hands.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
I go back and forth. The mastermind of it I initially thought was Ellie. Then reading the letters from Gavin that he wrote to Ellie, telling her what she needed to say, then I started to think maybe Gavin was the mastermind of all of this. I go back and forth.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Because without her, this wouldn't have happened. Without Gavin, this wouldn't have happened. I doubt without Russell it could have happened.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
It's mind-blowing that that little girl I interviewed is now a grown-up. The fact that she's joining the National Guard lets me know she didn't let this, you know, derail her life.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
We didn't know at that particular time whether this was a missing person case or a kidnapping. We just didn't know.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
In my mind, I automatically assumed that the 15-year-old daughter was the victim of a homicide.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Probably one of the most interesting, heinous crimes I've seen in my career.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Sierra wasn't, like, outright crying, but you could tell she was worried. Who was she worried about? Her dad and Ellie.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
She heard her dad yell the F word. She heard dragging. She heard things being moved. After that, it was completely silent. Did she have any idea what was going on at the time? No. She was frightened enough to stay in her room until she felt like it was okay to come out.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Sierra insinuated this was a little bit of a forbidden love. Dad had forbade Ellie from seeing Gavin.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Once we have a name, Gavin McFarlane, now we got a picture. Now we know who we're looking for.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
We started getting cell phone tower hits up in the East Medford area.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
We could see there was blood on the outside of the bumper that had been dripping down. When this trunk is opened up, there is large amounts of blood. I mean, it is soaked into the carpet.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
Ellie, Gavin, and Russell are separated, detained, and transported to the Medford Police Department for questioning.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
And so everybody is really concerned because we actually don't know where your dad is right now.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
He's a talker. Very, very talkative. So I kind of knew he would have a hard time keeping his mouth shut.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
He told us that he was trying to help get Ellie out of a bad situation.
48 Hours
First Love, Then Murder
So the next thing I tell him is, look, Russell, we got detectives out there right now pulling video from every house, the alleys. So if this ain't the truth, you need to be truthful with me right now. And he looks me square in the eyes and he says, well, 95% of it's the truth and there's 5% of it's a lie. So I'm thinking automatically, well, what's the lie here?
48 Hours
The Day My Mother Never Came Home
No, I don't. I don't believe Reggie did that. My brother's not a murderer. He's not.
48 Hours
The Day My Mother Never Came Home
This call is not private. It will be recorded and may be monitored.
48 Hours
The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Do you think you got a fair trial? No, of course not. Of course not.
48 Hours
The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Did anybody come over? Did anybody leave? Everybody stayed home that night?
48 Hours
The Day My Mother Never Came Home
I just can't imagine what it's like as a six-year-old to have to sit there
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're not going anywhere until we get the facts here.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
The reason that we were called in in this incident is because Ben's skull was fractured. What we need to know right now is if this was done by accident, Or did somebody intentionally hurt him?
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're talking a skull fracture. There's sometimes accidents happen and I mean, they're unavoidable.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
You didn't come to work that day with the intent of hurting anybody.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
There's no way, no way that that would have caused that traumatic of an injury. All you need to do is tell us the truth and we're done.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Show us how angry you were and show us what happened, and let's just get this over with and move on.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
I'm going to tell you something right now. This is very specific. This is going to leave a specific mark.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We think in this situation the other babies are screaming, crying.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
He starts acting up and you get mad at him and you throw him on the floor. You throw on the floor? Yeah.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're on the phone right now. We're trying to get this done as quickly as possible.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
I have a good idea that you've seen what happened or you were involved with what happened because you were the only one in the room at the onset of this.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
You're there. It's not like there were 50 people in that room with you.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
We're not going anywhere until we get the facts here.
48 Hours
A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
He starts acting up, and you get mad at him, and you throw him on the floor. You throw him on the floor?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Samuel, how are you? I'm all right. My name is Cindy. I'm a detective here, and this is my partner.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
I was looking and I found what I think are horseshoes and pants. I didn't touch anything. I made sure not to touch anything.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
There's also like just a weird thing in the water, but I don't, it doesn't look like there's anything under it.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
That's it. See, that's not how people disappear. Getting out of a car and walking away is not how people disappear. People disappear by getting picked up by somebody they've never met before. So what do you think happened to her?
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
I'm just coming to you today. No polygraph or nothing, okay? It's just you and me. And overnight, I'm thinking and I'm thinking and I'm thinking... How do you get yourself in this situation?
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 4 - Horse and Buggy
I talked to the lead detective for that taxi cab thing.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 4 - Horse and Buggy
And he told me that they had the dogs out, and the dogs, like, lost the scent at an abandoned house. Like, they were that close.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 4 - Horse and Buggy
She had been shot twice in the head and in the back.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 4 - Horse and Buggy
So when she was killed in a wealthy neighborhood... She had been shot twice in the head and in the back behind the heart.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 4 - Horse and Buggy
So when she was killed in a wealthy neighborhood... She had been shot twice in the head and in the back, behind the heart.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 4 - Horse and Buggy
And I just really always wanted to be able to come back to you and say, all right, this is it. This is who did it. And there's going to be charges and your name will be officially cleared. And I just sort of wanted to say I'm sorry that I didn't get there.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
This nail was part of that bomb. Every nail has a serial number. Like a gun. We traced it to the manufacturer. What hardware store it was sold to. A hardware store two blocks from your apartment. We have the receipt. You bought those nails.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
You bought those nails. You knew I would find you. It was only a matter of time. Mickey talks about how I found him at a cheap hotel. He talks about how he ran. Like a rat into Gotham's sewers. He talks about trying to hide from one demon. Only to find another.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
Solomon Grundy, one of Gotham's lost souls. Solomon Grundy, born on a Monday. Solomon Grundy would have pounded Mickey into a pulp. Solomon, I have no quarrel with you. Born on a Monday. I only came for the man who disturbed your privacy. That man.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
Mickey talks about how Grundy would have hurt me. If I wasn't forced to hurt him first. Solomon Grundy was innocent of this whole affair. Reminding me how deep the Romans' roots have dug into this city.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
I can't believe that. I won't believe that. And neither should you.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
He's scared. Not of you. Not of me. But of someone very powerful. We've only begun to learn the truth.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
The Roman's penthouse. He prepares Thanksgiving dinner with his son, Alberto. A little sugar.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
Thanksgiving night in Gotham City. On last Halloween night, someone blew up Harvey and Gilda Dent's home. That someone is Mickey the Mink Sullivan. Mickey runs a small-time operation called The Irish. Donny Boy Sullivan, his older brother, Jimmy Slick, Dapper Kevin, Willie two times. We have all of them downstairs in a holding cell. Except Mickey. Harvey Dent is dead. We know you did it, Mickey.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
Gotham City Police Department. The cell where we're holding the Irish.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
We interrogate them all. Next, it's Jimmy Slick.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
Five confessions, including Mickey. Rehearsed. Clean. Whatever the Roman is paying them, he's getting his money's worth. Bring Mickey back up.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
Harvey was wrong. They made bail in less than an hour.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
I watched from above as the Irish leave jail in a stretch limo. The Dents spend Thanksgiving together at Gotham City Memorial. Gilda Dent's still recovering from her burn wounds. It's okay, honey. Gordon went home late. Barbara and his baby James went to bed hours ago. Thanksgiving dinner is cold.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
And in the Gotham sewers, I shared Thanksgiving with someone very special.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
As I finished my patrol past the Astoria Towers Hotel, I couldn't help but wonder with the Roman's grip getting tighter on Gotham City. Will there be anything to be thankful for in the coming year? Little did I know that inside, a celebration was going to come to an abrupt end.
DC High Volume: Batman
Batman: The Long Halloween - Chapter 2
But we also know you're nothing but a little fish. And the only thing little fish are good for is catching bigger fish.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
Police start asking about the private area in the back of the store, the little kitchenette where staff hang out on break, make coffee, that sort of thing.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
Is there anybody talking to each other or like any signs of problems?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
So, I mean, the purpose is like, if we do find anything, we're going to get your DNA so that way we can eliminate it. So we don't submit it to a national database.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Yes, you did, yeah. It was self-inflicted. They're perfectly parallel. They're superficial scratches. Your pants were pulled down when this happened. The cuts don't match up with the cuts in your pants. It's obvious. It's a classic case of self-inflicted wounds. I know about the thefts. I know that Jaina found clothing in your bag. No, she didn't. And that you'd been suspected of stealing.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Okay, then who did kill her? Because there were not two guys in there.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Was there someone else with you that forced you back into the store for whatever reason? No. Is that what happened?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
That you were walking down to the metro and somebody accosted you and forced you into the store and forced you to call Jaina to get her back to rob him? No. Okay. Then who killed her?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
And then you put the shoes back in there. I think that, like, you need help.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
And I'm very, very concerned for you. I think you need help. These guys give you the keys... tell you to go move her car. Okay? A cop goes by and you don't flag him down. You get in the car and you drive off and park it and then come back so that they can kill you. Come on. Come on.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Yes, I did. No. Nobody in the world is going to believe this story. No one. He doesn't believe it. My boss doesn't believe it. When I tell your brother and your sister, they ain't going to believe it. And your mother and your father, they're going to say, bullshit. This did not happen. I'll tell you something else. Chris already doesn't believe it.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Remember when we were over the house on Mondays? And he said, I'm going to talk to you. And we went outside. You know what he told us? Or what he asked us? Why is this girl dead and my sister is still alive? What kind of sense does that make? I don't know. Okay. He knows that something's shaky.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
When I talk to Chris and with Marissa and we start getting into your background, we're going to probably find out that there are some psychological or emotional problems. I don't have any problems. Well, you do now.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Why don't you then step by step by step walk me through it, okay? You go back to the store, okay? And were they standing by the front door waiting for you or in the back or what?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
You're walking from the store. to the car, and you see a cop car going by, and you said that, like, you passed a couple of people.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Okay. And you got in the car and you drove off. Okay. People would probably ask, well, why didn't you just keep on going and not go back, you know?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Okay. But then couldn't you, like, go get a cop or something like that and tell them that these guys are in the store?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Did they say why they wanted you to move the car? I didn't say why. Because, I mean, it doesn't make sense.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
What about your forehead? Had that started bleeding yet, or did that happen after you got back to the store? It did. I had blood on my face. Okay. And how many people do you think that you passed?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
When you were walking to the car or after you had parked the car, walking back? Okay. Did they kind of look at you funny or anything like that? You know, like, whoa, what's she doing all bloody? What did they say?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
They took at you funny, like, again, you know, like, it is Bethesda, black girl with blood all over.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Brittany, comes a point sometimes when We have to break down and get everything off of our chests, okay? I know this has really been rough for you as far as like, I'm sure that you have been going absolutely nuts for these past couple of days as far as what the cops have found out, what the cops have figured out.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Oh, I can only imagine. You know, you have got to be going absolutely nuts with worry, with fear. You got to be. You got to be. And you got to tell us what really happened.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Now, what you've done is you've concocted an incredible story that doesn't make any doggone sense.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
Listen to me, okay? I've been doing this. I've been a cop for over 30 years. I've been working homicide for damn near 25 years. And I've seen a lot of stuff. And I've heard a lot of tales. And I've seen a lot of people, good and bad. And sometimes people get into situations way over their heads. And it's like, what the hell am I going to do now? You know, how do I explain this?
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 3
What the hell am I going to do now? I guess we can start off with the injuries that you have. They're self-inflicted. Yeah, they're self-inflicted. You did this to yourself.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
I do remember him crying when he started to shed some tears over the fact that how could anyone possibly think that he could hurt anyone, let alone his best friend, Ron Platt.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
She was very, very calm, very determined, and stood there and gave it like it was. And we knew what she could say. We knew what she'd already told us. And it was a matter of her getting that out in court.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
The foreman stands up and the clerk asks, you know, have you got to a verdict that you're all agreed on? Yes, we have.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
And then it's like kind of everything's crossed and then the foreman says guilty and that's it. Yeah. You can't whoop and holler, can you? But you can inside. They all pretty stiff upper lip and all, isn't it? But yeah, we didn't get a party that night. We weren't going to let that go without a party.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
When you think about it logically, how we've got from there to there is unbelievable. Unbelievable. And it truly is. If you really think about it, you just think, how did we do that? And I keep going on about luck, but, you know, yeah, everything we touched turned to gold.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
I think she'd seen the light, hadn't she? She'd been under his spell for so many years. Once that spell was broken and he was taken away from her... I think then she became aware of how wrong everything was and how manipulative he was. And yeah, I think she made that conscious decision to step out from him and say, look, this is it. This is the end of me being ruled by him.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
We were all delighted with how she managed to stand up to it. Just the fact that she had the courage to stand up and fight against their father after what he put her through, I thought it was fabulous.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
She was able to really display to the court the motive behind it, the fact that he saw this as an opportunity. She kind of explained to the jury, the court, how they benefited him. And the jury, I think, were able to see and form, yeah, that is a good motive to kind of, to get them out the country. And Ron couldn't explain to the court. And Elaine, she was able to speak on Ron's behalf.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
and explain to the court exactly why Ron had to be disposed of, if you like. And it was quite compelling, yeah.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E7: Plausible, Intelligent and Ruthless | Sea of Lies
He's listening to this scenario all coming together, and he's probably thinking at that point, I really am in trouble here.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
What do you think was the trigger that led you in this direction?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
I know it's in your other statement too. Could you just briefly describe that again?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
You had come in initially just to come today for the purpose of kind of just getting a little bit of background on
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
And since you were here, I thought it would be a good idea for me, since I wasn't involved, obviously, in the original statement, if I was in Ottawa, that I could just maybe just
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
I'm Detective Yarmuluk, badge number 813. We're in 55 Division in the interview room. And I am with, could you just state your name for the camera?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
So then you're at Eastern Commerce. When did you meet up or have a relationship is the wrong word. When did you have dealings with Mr. Walker?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
So now you had intercourse. How did that come about? Like, how did he... did he convince you at any time? Did you say stop? I want, I don't want to do with this.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
Okay. Okay. So now you had, uh, the first time you had intercourse was in Belleville in the hotel room. Yes. Um, it was at one time there in Belleville.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
Okay. So then obviously now you're the, the band trip is over or everybody comes back to Toronto. Okay. So when was the next time, uh, um, You had some kind of interaction with him?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
This is being videotaped and audiotaped. Do you have no problem with that? No, not at all.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
You've come in today from Ottawa in relation to an occurrence. It's a historical sexual assault. Is that right?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S31 E3: Seeking justice | The Banned Teacher
Oh, really? Okay. Okay. So then you provided a statement, and I have reviewed that statement.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
On the morning of the 31st, I came to work at Chelmsford, but I took a slight detour, quite a detour actually, and came this way, driving down from Danbury into Wood and Water to see if there was any sign of life at the house.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
came up here. I think I turned into the lane, saw the car was on the drive and backed out again and looked for somewhere to sit and wait. The trees were bare and I got a reasonable view.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
I saw a taxi going down the lane, going past them, and he went down and then came back and stopped somewhere between the two. From this angle, I couldn't see which house he'd stopped in front of. Couldn't see which house he'd actually gone to.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
So I had to take a chance that he'd actually picked up at Little London Farmhouse rather than Little London House.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
Lots of things were going through my mind at this point. Have I done the right thing? But having committed to it, you've got to see these things through.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
At this point, I know there's a passenger in the taxi, but I can't see who it is. And I'm taking the chance that it is our man.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
They said that the armed response vehicle was near, was making its way to me. I do remember pulling out of here sharply to stay close to them. You can lose them very quickly.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 E3: A Dream State | Sea of Lies
Do you remember me, Mr. Davis? Oh, yes. Yes, I remember you. I'm arresting you on suspicion of the murder of Ronald Platt.
Serialously with Annie Elise
267: Parking Lot Horror, Teen Hides Dead Baby, & Jello Shot Scandal
One of the first words from the detective was, if she would have been in a place five minutes before or five minutes after, this would have never happened. It literally was a random act. That's what's so sickening.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia, like a lot of 18-year-old girls, she wanted to be independent, and that led to a lot of altercations at home as her home life was trying to balance her independence with her being a responsible young adult. And things got a little bit tumultuous with her mother, and eventually she left the house.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jared grew up in this rural community of Fairburn, and he knew a lot of people in the area.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
At some point, he entered military school, and he intended to go into the Coast Guard.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We ended up putting out a bolo for De'Asia.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia said she had just legitimately just asked for a ride from Ms. Abad.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I think Detective Jackson pretty quickly, summarily dismissed the plausibility of that version of events. He says, I'm gonna leave the room and I'm gonna come back and give you a second bite of the apple.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He came in to talk to the police proactively, and he just says, saw her on the news, don't know anything else. I'm not involved in this.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He denies essentially any involvement or even having seen her recently.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia told us, she was looking for a way out of living on the street and this repeated cycle of sleeping in the night watchman's car, spending all day at the shopping center, and then doing it all over again. Jared told her, you bring the car to me and I will take care of the rest.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
DeAsia said that she pulled out an airsoft pistol that Jared had given her for the purpose of stealing a car or for protection.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Meanwhile, while this is going on, Jared has emerged from the wood line, and he smashed the driver's glass window. So while he beats the glass with a baseball bat, the victim crawls over the passenger seat and ends up outside the car.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She was begging and pleading for her life. She talked about Christmas just being a few days away and the fact that she had a young granddaughter, and she just wanted to make it to Christmas to see her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They could have left her there. Maybe someone would have driven by and seen and been able to render aid. Instead, they put her body in the trunk of her own car.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He asked his dispatcher to try to contact the owner of the vehicle to see if perhaps the vehicle was stolen overnight and she just hadn't woken up to discover it yet.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We do believe that De'Asia, you know, actively participated in the violence that night and certainly helped load Tony Abad's body into the trunk of her own car. So she was more than just like a getaway driver.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Even if they intended to just carjack Miss Abad, the fact that they so egregiously and aggressively bludgeoned her, that speaks to a level of violence that leaves only one conclusion, that the moment that they arrived on that road, they intended to kill her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The following day, a warrant is issued for Jared's arrest, and the police are looking for him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We really can't go to trial solely alone on the accusation of a co-conspirator.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I think there's some variation in what De'Asia thought was going to happen and what Jared planned to do. But I do think that De'Asia was 100% along for the ride once that decision was made.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
This was Christmas Eve, and once they located that address, the police went there and he was taken into custody without incident.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So it's interesting that he came in to talk to the police proactively, and then the day following, he's arrested, and now he's mum. He's got nothing to say to the police.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
What we found was a significant amount of communication with DeAsia on December 21st, which was the night of the murder. They spoke somewhere between FaceTime calls and voice calls, somewhere in the neighborhood of six and a half hours on December 21st. So a significant amount of time.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So for Jared to come in after the fact and say, you know, this is just someone that I have a casual relationship with, I don't know her well, the phone records are telling a vastly different story.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Arguably the most important evidence that we found in Jared's phone was when we looked at the web history.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
When I overlaid Jared's web search history with the Fulton County Police CAD record for the discovery of Ms. Abad's car, what we found was in the minutes that preceded the discovery of her body, he was searching for essentially a woman found in the trunk of a car in Fairburn.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
My best analysis when it comes to motive of Jared Kemp and De'Asia Page in this murder I believe that DeAsia was an immature, impressionable young lady that was homeless and desperate. And she was doing partly what she wanted to do and part what others had convinced her to do.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I believe that when Jared was waiting in that wood line on Church Street after directing DeAsia to drive down that dirt road with a victim in a car, he was driven by a motivation to kill.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She had significant injuries to her head and her face, so she was severely beaten to death.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There was a significant amount of blood inside the trunk of the car to possibly suggest that she still could have been alive inside the trunk of that car before she was discovered.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We discovered her body in the trunk of the car.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
It's just kind of an off-the-beaten-path type of roadway. And as you drive down that road, you kind of feel like you're driving towards a dead end or the middle of nowhere.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
This is four days before Christmas. It's cold outside. This is the South Atlanta winter, and you have a young lady asking for help getting a ride. I'm sure when Toni walked out of her job that night, she really just saw the face of one of her children when they were 18, and they needed help.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The video surveillance showed this young lady pacing back and forth in front of the two entrances and exits to the supermarket.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: De'Asia Page and Jared Kemp (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The video surveillance showed this young lady pacing back and forth.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Even when you can't see, you know where the 9 and the 1 go on the telephone. That didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The medical examiner's report indicated that she was killed from a crushing blow to the throat, which crushed larynx. She can no longer breathe, swallow. She is gasping and choking. It's a horrible way to die.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So many times there's a family violence situation, a sudden rage, a fight, something happens and it turns into a homicide. And then the killer tries to set up the scene to match his story. We believe that Jack Gray possibly was involved in it. To obtain some of this evidence, I was required to write search warrants.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
And in the search warrant, I was required to name a suspect and why we wanted the warrant. And in these affidavits, I named, of course, Jack Coswell.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Karen Koslow had a trust fund that was considerable, around $4 million.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They had at some point in time gone to some counseling.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
It was going to be a considerable investment.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Paula and Christy and Salter came to the office with their attorney and we talked to them.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She had no idea about whether it would have been a robbery or something, but she suspected that because everybody loved her dad and her stepmom.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Brian and Christy were just members of the same social circle. They knew each other from young people that they hung out with and such.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There was never a point in time when we had decided to arrest Jack Koslow. There was never a point in time where anybody said, we need to arrest him, let's get a warrant to arrest him. He was a suspicious person that we had to clear.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He said, I really need to talk to you. I know what happened. I asked him where he was, and he gave me an address. And I said, I'll be right there. And I jumped in the car and drove out there and met him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He sat there with me and told me about Jeffrey Dillingham, how this guy had come to him and confess to him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Paul Carrillo gave us a backpack, which contained several items. We got Jack Koslow's wallet, which had his ID and business card, a bulletproof vest.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He had gone into the house with Brian Salter.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jeffrey Dillingham, I was curious about his criminal history and found out very quickly he'd never been arrested for anything. Salter, that guy was so weak acting, I didn't think that guy could do anything to anybody.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They were supposed to kill both Karen and Jack Koslow. When I questioned him about how he hit Karen, as she was on the floor, she rolled over on her side, and at one point, he struck her in the throat with the crowbar, which is consistent with what the medical examiner's report showed.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
At some point in time, Brian Salter then takes the knife they find and uses it to cut Jack's throat and Karen Koslow's throat so severely it almost severs your head. He talked about these things with seemingly no remorse.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I personally arrested both of them. I put Brian in the car with me and another detective transporting Christie from that location straight up to our homicide office.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I received a call about four o'clock in the morning and I was told that there was a Signal 11 stabbing.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
She could draw out a map, which she did, of the interior of the residence, show them exactly where they slipped.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They were concerned that Jack had firearms there in the house that, according to Christy, kept them up there in the bedroom.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jeffrey Dillingham has the pry bar, and he starts striking both Jack and Karen Koslow.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
I went in and sat down with her and I told her, you need to tell me the truth, everything you know.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Christy Koslow admitted she hated Karen and came to hate her dad. She became tearful and stated that She resented Karen Koslow for taking her father away from her mother Paula.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
During the course of the investigation, I had acquired a copy of Karen Koslow's will. Karen Koslow had expressly eliminated Christy Koslow from receiving any money in the event of her death. So this plan to kill and to murder her parents was really for nothing. Jack was both angry and sad about
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He did say that Jack was articulate in talking to him and telling him. Some people came into the house, and I think Karen may be dead.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Christy being involved in this, he was furious that she could do something like this and arrange this and take his wife away and destroy his life like she had done.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We proceeded up the stairs to the master bedroom. The victim's body was the first thing that my eyes went to. She was partially clothed and lying face down on the floor at the foot of the bed.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He worked his way up to a management position and was very well liked.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Christy was in the care of Paula, but visited and stayed with Jack and Karen a lot. She grew into her teens. She went to a nice school, was paid for by Jack.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jack was quite bloody. His face was covered in blood, his hair matted with blood, blood on his hands. He was swollen. He seemed very groggy, maybe somewhat even incoherent. He was transported to Terrace Hospital.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We noticed bloody handprints on the back of her t-shirt indicating that maybe she had been moved. Somebody with bloody hands had grabbed her and either rolled her over or drug her or moved her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
When the body was turned over, we could see this horrendous cut to the throat. Her throat was cut severely to the point that I remember thinking it almost decapitated her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
We saw a buck knife lying on the floor. It was open still, had a very ornate handle, and was covered in blood. We were obviously suspicious that that might be one of the murder weapons.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There was a rack in there that held several firearms. And drawers that were open, shotgun shells on the floor, blood everywhere in there. Obviously, somebody was going through and looking for something in this closet.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
The gate had been pried open. It appeared to be a pry bar because you could see the points of the pry bar embedded into the wood. And there was a little piece of what looked like a latex glove that had been torn off. We saw that the back door had also been pried open using what looked like the same tool.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
So there was more going on than just a robbery or home invasion. The entire crime scene was very confusing.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jack had been talking, but he seemed to be in a confused state about what had happened. He seems very groggy and very confused.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
hands were swollen. There were little angular marks that looked to me and everybody else remarkably like the night watch.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
There were some that believed that this was a staged crime scene.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He went to bed, and then was later awakened back. What he described was noise downstairs.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
Jack said these two men kicked open the door and That's when they ordered him down on the floor and carrying down on the floor.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
They started beating him with a heavy object.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
BONUS: Kristi Koslow and Brian Salter (Snapped: Killer Couples)
He checked on Karen and couldn't get her to wake up. He grabbed the phone. and was trying to dial 911, but because of all the blood in his eyes, he couldn't see.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
There's a figure dressed all in black that runs very quickly up the driveway.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
The murder happened at 2.30, and they realized that that fit into the timeline of when the van was gone, when the murder happened, and when the van returned to the workplace.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
When they look at the footage, it's not Bridget that's leaving the building, it's Catherine who's leaving the building, and she's using Bridget's key card.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
By tracking the pings, they know that she left work shortly after 1230.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
During the confrontation call, Bridget expresses her great concern about the fact that the police think that she may have been in on this. And Catherine doesn't seem too concerned.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
Police called in the Arizona Department of Child Safety. They took custody of the little baby.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Kathryn Sinkevitch
There's a figure dressed all in black that runs very quickly up the driveway.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
I'm thinking, and now you're deleting messages. So how do we know what's going on? Are you involved now?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We get the cell phone and notice that he had made several phone calls to this one number.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
None of the GPS coordinates put him anywhere near where she lived.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We also learned that some of her text messages had been deleted, was a little suspicious at first.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The timeline and text messages that she was getting from him matched exactly with what she had told us.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We know that one of the last messages that were sent says he's with Tiffany. When we get the cell phone information from his cell phone carrier, we had noticed that he had made several phone calls to this one number, and that phone number came back to a Tiffany. We made contact with her and learned her side of the story.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We had asked her, you know, one of the last messages that were sent says he's with Tiffany. She's like, I don't really know why. It wasn't me that sent that message.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
She actually lived down in Naples, a little far away, and none of the GPS coordinates put him anywhere near where Tiffany lived. There was no connection, we believe what she was saying, and we didn't have anything to say differently at this point.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
following the breadcrumbs that they're leaving behind from the GPS locations. They lead us to this house.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
That's when mom had told us about the girlfriend and gave us her information. Mom's talking and we're looking into both of them. I'm sending all this information to our analyst. Hey, start researching this person because this is his girlfriend and see what we can get on her.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
As we're talking with Nathan's mom, I'm really intrigued by this area by the side of the house. It's a freshly dug dirt area. It just looked very awkward and very out of place. Now I'm like, okay, so now this is really involved. Now we've really got something here.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The most important evidence that we found in the house was the shovels and wheelbarrow that had dirt still on them.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The dirt on the shovels and the wheelbarrow matched the dirt that was found in the dug-up area and also the same dirt that was found inside Matthew's vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Nathan's mom calls him and says, I have two deputies here. They want to meet with you and talk to you. You're meeting with them tonight.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Aria kept saying because of her fear for herself and her unborn child and for Nathan's safety because this guy pulled the gun out and said, I'm going to kill you. She felt like this was the only safe thing that she could do.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
I'm listening to her tell this story. There was no, like, sense of remorse or guilt whatsoever. I thought, there's no way that this is the true story.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Nathan pretty much gives us the same story to the details of the song being played. And then Matthew points the gun at him and he punches the gun out of his hand. And he said, like, all of a sudden, I just heard this, like, gunshot.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
They said after they had killed him, they decided to dig this grave right next to the house, which is the area that I had noticed earlier. Where was everybody when you were digging the hole? His parents were sleeping. Was it too hard over there and that's why you didn't finish that?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
It didn't really work out. It was, like, not deep enough, and it was very, very obvious. They ended up going back out there that next night, and then they decided, we need to move this.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
It wasn't until like later we decided to burn him. Once they buried him, they were like searching how to get rid of the body. And so they decide, oh, well, it says burn the body. So a couple of days later, they go out there and unbury him again and light his body on fire.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
They're sitting there realizing how bad burning flesh smells. So they ended up, you know, putting out the fire and then burying him again. At this point, we didn't know where Matthew was. So we'd asked Aria if she'd be willing to show us.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Right there? And that's where you guys dug out? And then you guys placed him in there? So you're saying that his body was burned a little bit?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Once we had booked her in, that's when they had made her do a pregnancy test and learned that she wasn't actually pregnant. She was never pregnant. I think it was just part of her story that she wanted to fabricate to make it seem like she was so scared for her life.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The gun was not found originally. They ended up interviewing Nate again later on after he'd already been sentenced to prison. And he told them they tossed the gun into the river and the dive team went out there and ended up finding the gun out there in the river. The attorney that we worked with for the state, you know, basically presented all this to Aria.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
Still to this day, try to ask myself, like, what really happened? I wish we had Matthew's side, but unfortunately we don't.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The lady that called in, she said basically she walks this same path every day. After several days of seeing the vehicle there, she thought maybe it was stolen. Deputies were sent to kind of figure out what was going on with it.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
There's this hole in the windshield with some tape over it. After looking at it, they realize that there's a bullet hole in the windshield.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
You could see blood all over inside the vehicle. There's a crime that's obviously occurred. Is it Matthew? Is he the victim or is he the suspect here? And who does all this blood belong to?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
So at this point, they're doing fingerprints, photographing all over the vehicle, inside and outside of it. We noticed blood on the back bumper of the vehicle and drag marks on the back bumper. I'm like, okay, somebody's in there.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
What I could see on the bumper definitely shows that somebody had been placed in the vehicle or drug out of the vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
We opened it just to make sure. However, Matthew was not located in the vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
The blood that was located both inside the trunk area, inside the passenger compartment, and what I could see on the bumper definitely shows that somebody had been killed inside that vehicle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Aria Armstead
You could see blood all over inside the vehicle. Somebody had been killed inside that vehicle. Who does all this blood belong to?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
That's what we had, but it was an accident, and that was really all. I was pulled away for different investigations.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
There was a small life insurance policy, I say small, like $25,000 or something, but nothing of any real major importance.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Murray said, as far as they were concerned, Elaine Whitty had went on an extended vacation. She was traveling alone and was going to the West Coast and making various stops in between. She had no schedule or anything like that. Nobody could pinpoint where she was.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, hello, Marie, remember me? I'm back. And she almost fainted.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It was Marie Witte that made the call and it went to Beverly Shores Police Department.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Skip Pierce came to me and said, we've got this lady. Her name's Malaine Whitty. She's missing. No one had seen her. No one had talked to her. No one knew where she was.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I began to realize that I had dealt with these people in the past and that these were the same people her son had tripped and shot her husband in the head. You know, I think we've got a problem.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It could have well been just an accidental shooting. But again, when the gun went off, it shot downward into the head, which made it really much more suspicious. If he had tripped, the bullet would have come in more of a direct angle.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, hello, Marie, remember me? I'm back. And she almost fainted. I said, Marie, I'm here about Elaine Puddy. We're trying to find her. And she's on a trip. And she stammered and stuttered. And I said, can we come in and sit down?
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
She just simply said, if I hear from her, I'll let you know. But my concern is Marie didn't have a clue where she was gone to. She's been gone two or three months here, and that's not normal.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I asked her where Marie was. Where's Marie staying now? She said, well, she and Butch are going out to California and see Eric.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
My worst nightmares were coming true. From my standpoint as an investigator, there was no question in my mind that Elaine was not with us anymore, that she was gone.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marcy appears to be a very nice older lady. What I want to do is put pressure on Marcy. You can tell that she knew more. I kept contact with her, and the more I talked to her, the more I could get from her. And I finally said, what's going on? And I said, I'll go after anyone who was involved in this whole thing, and I'll lock them up.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It was on a Friday. I called and talked to her and she said, Boyd, Elaine's dead. And I said, okay, I'll be right over.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, well, where's she at? Where's the body? She says, there is no body. She said, we've got rid of the body.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Paul had been apparently asleep on the couch when he was shot in the head.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marie Witte's mother, Marcy O'Donnell, was saying Marie and Butch had got rid of the body, had cut it up and had dismembered it and got rid of the body.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marcy O'Donnell told us that Marie was writing these checks and authoring the checks and copying Elaine's signature.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It is a mammoth landfill for the entire city of San Diego. And that's where all the refuse comes in.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
They had tried to kill her by first giving her drugs and keeping her in a room that was cold with the windows open, hoping that she would die naturally.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Elaine was on to the fact that Marie was forging her checks.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
First, they started out giving him rat poison. He gets sick, and they go to hospital. Of course, he goes to hospital. He gets better. So then they went and got arsenic to bleed. That just made him have an awful headache, and he'd sleep on the couch.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
She said, you got to do it now. Eric was given a choice, either strangle him or to shoot him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
He had to do it now because mom's going to really be mad now when she comes home and he didn't do it. And that's when he took the gun and shot his dad.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Essentially, Marie had told our investigator that her son Eric had a gun, had a .357 Magnum, and it had tripped. And it had went off and shot her husband in the head.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
No one had seen her. No one had talked to her. No one knew where she was.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I began to realize that I had dealt with these people in the past. It went from a missing persons to something more serious.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It was not a well-kept house at all, by any stretch of the imagination. It wasn't impossible for what they said to have happened, someone tripping, so you keep an open mind.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
It appeared he'd been shot in the top of the head, in sort of a downward angle. And if he had tripped, the bullet would have come in more of a direct angle as opposed to a downward angle. I didn't think it was an accident. I didn't know what it was yet.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
Marie didn't want me talking to Eric. She said, I think we need an attorney. And I said, that's your priority. That's fine. People do that, but it's a little flag waving there that says this is not normal.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
His dad was asleep on the couch. He came in the room and talked to his dad about the gun, how it worked. He said he had tripped on the rug and that he had fallen forward and this has happened. The gun accidentally went off and shot him in the head.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
My question to him was, why are you taking a gun, loaded gun, to your dad? And he said that he wanted to see about the safety mechanism or something. I said, did you have the gun cocked? And he said he didn't think so. And that was a big red flag to me because it takes quite a bit of pull to be able to shoot a double action .357. There is a trigger pull to it.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
But at that point in time, the attorney stopped me from questioning him.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
She would answer a question if I asked her something, but other than that, she didn't volunteer anything. She tried to be very quiet around me. I told Marie and told the attorney, you'll see me again someday because he's getting by with this and he'll do it again. So trust me, you're going to see me again.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Hilma Marie Witte
I said, well, where's she at? Where's the body? She says there is no body.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
The relationship was there to take advantage of Bud Phillips and take advantage of his finances.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We're three hours from Lubbock, Texas to the north, and to the south we got San Antonio.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We gathered not only the ice cream, but other items within the house that could contain strychnine.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
Once it got closer to the property being sold, it kind of fell through because it was really not a way for her to prove up that she was the actual owner.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They had seen a subject come out of residence, screaming, yelling, and then shortly thereafter, the subject collapsed.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
What they suspected is the relationship was there only to take advantage of Bud Phillips and take advantage of his finances. She tried to sell some property that didn't belong to her. So again, what they suspect is the money could have been the motive.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We basically have to prove that she was there at the residence prior to his death, link her to the strychnine, and link her to the ice cream.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
Mr. Phillips' residence was at a corner of an intersection. One elderly lady across the street told me I happened to be looking in between 8 and 8.30.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
We could place her at the scene of the crime within 20 to 30 minutes of the death. That was too much of a coincidence for us.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
She realized that he had stopped breathing. At that point, we had dispatched medical personnel from the fire department to respond to the scene.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
He was transported by ambulance to our trauma one hospital here in San Angelo.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They had seen a subject come out of residence screaming, yelling.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They've lived together for a period of time. They consider themselves husband and wife, but not legally married.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
A male subject that age, it's highly likely that he could have had a heart attack or some other medical episode.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
They just didn't believe that was an authentic letter admitting to the crime and then the suicide afterwards.
Snapped: Women Who Murder
Purdie Clark
Mr. Phillips and Purdy Clark lived together, and they considered each other husband and wife, but not legally married. They were more than a dating relationship.
Sword and Scale
Episode 285
Okay, so is this the same day that you found the computer and all that stuff?
Sword and Scale
Episode 285
Eric, I understand that you had a relationship with a woman within the last month. Can you give me her name, please?
Sword and Scale
Episode 285
Okay. Um, and tell me that you said there was no event and you guys just grew apart. Okay. But did you just continue to live together?
Sword and Scale
Episode 285
And did the two of you communicate during the time that you were in jail? Nope. She didn't come visit you or anything like that?
Sword and Scale
Episode 285
So you got out of jail the first or second week of December, and then what happened?
Sword and Scale
Episode 285
Before. Before Christmas. Alright, so for a week you tried to salvage the relationship?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Though Nate was adamant about this, the text messages suggested otherwise. So detectives pressed him. It made sense that he'd use a texting app to make these final plans if Nate was the reason for Ellie's disappearance.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Have you ever used a texting app? Again, you're not in any trouble. Here's what you gotta remember. I'm looking for this girl. Everyone's looking for this girl. You're looking for this girl. I'm looking for this girl. Y'all just got to remember that we do investigations before we come talking. Sure. So some of these questions I'm asking you, I kind of know the answers to. Yeah.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Okay. So would it surprise you if I told you that you were using a text app at some point to communicate with her? Kick? Maybe text now? Do you have to have text now? I know you're going to text me, any of that. So you had no plans to meet up with her over the weekend before she went missing? No. Okay.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
What I'm dealing with is I'm dealing with a lot of social media and a lot of apps that hide who people are with me. And I'm not quite sure that some of the stuff you're telling me is completely accurate at this point. I think you've had more contact with her text-wise. But, you know, I don't know that for a fact.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
As the interview went on, detectives noticed that Nate seemed to be trying to steer the conversation. It seemed like he wanted to shift the blame onto someone else.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
These text apps, if you will, they give you a number. So when we see them, they start popping up as numbers. You with me? Yeah. What do you think happened to her? I mean, you know her better than I do.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Were you guys ever more than friends? You ever slept with her? Because, I mean, there's nothing wrong with her. Yeah, no, no. There's a lot of indications that she was, you know, free with herself, which is fine.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
So, this Michael Strauss guy was the next person to be hunted down. But in the meantime, the police plan to take Nate's phone in for evaluation. The next time they saw him, they had a search warrant in hand.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
We get lied to all the time. We definitely know quite a bit about the iOS system as well. And we have resources to show us that if an app's been deleted or not. We have resources to show us deleted information from a phone. But is there any way we could arrange a time today to download certain information off of your phone within this timeframe to verify that what you're telling us is true?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Is that something that you would even consider? Sure. No, I understand. I understand. And that's well within your right. And I respect you for knowing your rights. What I would have to tell you, though, is that I do have a warrant to take your phone. But I've been totally upfront with you. I'm not lying to you. The reason that I gave you is totally honest. Someone is trying to use what I believe.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Someone is trying to use a number. Someone is trying to use a number associated with you?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Why is this cop trying to give away their game plan? Why is he acting like the suspect's defense attorney? I mean, I'm all for citizens having rights, but do we really need to handhold and spoon-feed suspects their only possible defense strategy? It's almost like he's saying, hey dummy, say that you didn't have your phone on you. Say you gave it to a buddy or something.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Despite these detectives seemingly really wanting to give the suspect some helpful legal tips during the interrogation, their actual job now required them to gather information on this new lead, Michael Strauss. To better understand him, they reached out to someone who had known Michael for years. his neighbor.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
This kid, also in his early 20s, had grown up next to the Strauss family for over 15 years and was close friends with Michael's brother. But Michael? Not so much.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
What the neighbor says next would become crucial information for detectives once they had Michael Strauss in an interrogation room.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
New faces and old acquaintances. Some days, you barely know half the people you're with. You smoke, of course. You dance, you draw. And for a few hours, you let the music drown everything out. You're a free spirit. But eventually, the music fades, the lights go off, and you're back in your bedroom. feeling that ache of deep loneliness that you just can't shake.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
This flashing incident wasn't just a strange rumor. It was a documented crime. Michael Strauss had been convicted of jerking off in a grocery store parking lot, an act that landed him a year of probation. To Michael's neighbor, it was just another odd chapter in his long history of strange behavior. But for detectives, it was something they'd tuck away in the back of their minds.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
And yet, despite his oddities, Michael could come across as completely ordinary, at least on the surface.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
When the time came to bring Michael in for questioning, they already knew what to expect. A man who couldn't resist spinning stories. Pretty quickly, though, detectives realized that Michael's neighbor had not been exaggerating.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
The plan was just to let Michael talk. Detectives wanted to get to know this strange guy with long dreadlocks piled on top of his head. They wanted to make a false connection, making him feel like he could trust them. You can't. You can't, by the way. You can't trust cops. This was the same approach they took with everyone they interviewed in this case.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
If they scared anyone away, they could lose a potential lead. And Ellie may never be found.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Your room is a mess, littered with sketches, collages, and little scraps of ideas that don't quite come together. You feel like an artist, but you live like a homeless person. The faint scent of weed lingers in the air, mingling with the smell of incense. Probably a few hints of patchouli as well. Gale, your gecko, is asleep in her tank. You write little reminders to love yourself and keep going.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
This was a psychological chess match, and the detectives were the only ones who could see the board.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
So according to Michael, following someone around with a camera is harassment. Got it. I wonder how Scarlett Johansson feels about that.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
I always carry a camera, a seemingly innocent comment. But I'm sure by now you can see exactly what these detectives were doing. They weren't just making small talk. They were laying out the groundwork, connecting Michael's words to pieces of Ellie's case that we already know. The voyeuristic videos, the terrifying, intimate knowledge her stalker had of her life.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
But while suspicion mounted against Michael, there was still another loose end to tie up. Nate Peters. Detectives had taken his phone in for evaluation, and now they were ready to return it, having learned some surprising information.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
And then on, let's see, on May 28th, She texts you and says something, or excuse me, someone else is calling themselves Nate Peters and is texting me. It's confusing, LOL. And then you reply with surprise. I think you say WTF. And then she responds that the subject is sending her a phone reviews of another female. asking if it's her, meaning asking if it's Ellie.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
So my question is, is that we know that not only did Ellie text you, but she also, I think, called you a few times. Was there a follow-up conversation or a follow-up phone call saying who that might have been? trying, purporting to be you. Do you remember that conversation, though? No, not at all.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
I mean, somebody has to, even when you feel like you don't matter, which is becoming a more frequent occurrence. You scrawl big letters into a bullet journal, filling page after page after page.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Yeah, if you want to look at it, it's, so if you go to your text messages from her, You have to scroll him, obviously, all the way back to 2017, but you'll... Oh, from... Okay. Yeah, it's 2017. It's a while ago. When you guys were still kicking it.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
So that's probably why... And that's why it's kind of important, because, man, if someone's trying to be you all the way back to 2017... We want to know who it is. We want to know who it is. What the... Crazy, I know, right? That's why I'm saying, man, it's kind of spooky stuff.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Ah, now I get it. He's tricking him. Wait, he tricked me. I take it back. This guy's really good. At this point, detectives were pretty certain Michael Strauss had been the one not only stalking Ellie using anonymous phone numbers, but also the one posing as Nate Peters. So they start by explaining Ellie's story to Michael.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
They tell him about the night she received the creepy video of herself shot through the window.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
This is just how things are. You try not to think about it, but it's there. This feeling that you're not worthy of happiness or love. That somehow everyone you meet will leave you in the end. Weird. I thought I was the only one who felt that. It starts in January. One cold night, you're mindlessly scrolling, checking messages. You're used to chatting with people you know.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
It is spooky stuff, isn't it? We like spooky stuff around here, don't we? Sassholes. Hello! Happy Thursday! Welcome to your favorite podcast, Sword and Scale. Season 12, episode 295. The show that reveals that the worst monsters are real! Well, if you haven't checked out Zordon Scale TV, you know, I don't know what to tell you. We got one out right now that's pretty intense.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Either someone extraordinarily dedicated to the ruse was creeping on Michael, or you could live in reality and choose to believe that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. Michael's life had become a shadow of Ellie's, spent watching, waiting, and anonymously weaving himself into her world. Michael Strauss... And his doctor, Michael Strauss, had planned this whole thing.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
random party friends, the guy from last week's smoke session, etc. But then a message comes in from someone new. A guy named Kun Joe. Who the hell is Kun Joe? You don't know him, but you're curious. So you accept his Facebook friend request and start chatting. At first, there's nothing out of the ordinary.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
As the hours dragged on, it became painfully clear. Coaxing Michael Strauss into a single honest answer was like pulling teeth. Every lie they unraveled seemed to take an eternity and... They hadn't even broached the serious questions yet. The ones that could take this from an interrogation to a real confession.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
You're used to people hitting you up out of nowhere like this, so you don't think much of it. A few days later, after some casual banter with this guy, he sends you another message. This one makes your heart skip a beat.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Detectives had spent hours dancing around Michael Strauss' lies, playing a slow game of psychological chess. Every question, every comment, every seemingly innocuous detail was meticulously designed to chip away at his defense. Despite the mounting suspicion, Ellie was still missing. For her friends and family, the clock was ticking.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
The groundwork had been laid in his interrogation, and now it was time to confront the truth head on. Detectives started to introduce more and more of the damning evidence they had gathered. Ellie Weick went missing on July 29th, 2018, but her phone turned on for a brief moment on July 31st. It turned on just long enough to ping off a cell phone tower.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
At this point, the conversation cools down, and the two detectives leave for a minute to grab some water. Michael is only alone for a short time, but as soon as the door closes, he's talking to himself.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
When the detective comes back into the room, they propose that Michael take a polygraph test. They're still very cautious with their wording, and they reassure him that he's not a suspect. They even tell him confidentially that they know he'll pass the test, reassuring him. They just need to clear him. Get it out of the way, you know?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Of course, they want to push this investigation as far as possible before he fully realizes he's in deep shit and finally asks for a lawyer, like he should have done to begin with. Kind of shocking he hasn't realized it yet, right? But, like I always say, criminals are dumb. That's why they're criminals.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
After this message is a screenshot of your address, this person knows exactly where you live.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Back in January of the same year, a woman in Mason, Ohio, reported to police that a guy wearing a hoodie grabbed her from behind while she was jogging alone. She screamed and he let her go. Why would Michael be researching this specific case?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
What does that mean? That's what you're thinking, at least. A few days go by and more messages come through.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Yeah, Michael, we already know you're a giant perv. The point they're trying to make is that you searched for information on this local jogger attack, and then you opened up a new tab and started masturbating to porn. Immediately afterwards. You get it?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Your stomach turns. He's included a photo. It's a collage of your own selfies overlaid with a sea of penises. Does this person know that you like to do collages? Is this their twisted way of turning something you enjoy into something disturbing? The next message isn't from Kunjo. It's from a random text me number.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
I'm not a self-proclaimed behavioral analyst by any stretch, but I understand that people do stuff, and people do stuff for dumb reasons.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
I don't think, once again, I don't think it's a good sign, but I don't think that's good at all.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Along with her driver's license and a lock of Ellie's hair, detectives found a small pink stone. All this was inside a little tin deep inside of a crate in Michael's basement bedroom. His super secret stash where nobody will ever find it, you know? It was sandwiched between old art portfolios. Ooh, I guess the cops will never find it there, huh, Michael? What an idiot.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
As they looked over the case evidence, they noticed the same pink stone hanging around Ellie's neck in an old selfie. But they couldn't get him to admit to anything. Not wanting to scare him out of another interview... They took his phone for analysis, took his DNA, and told him that they'd talk to him again when he came to pick it up.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
When the next day came, a cruiser showed up to Michael's house and arrested him for stalking.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Who could be doing this? And why? Could it be someone you knew at another time in your life? Could it be someone you've never met? They're obviously dedicated to the con because the creepy messages don't let up. It's April now and you're sitting at your dining room table with a big poster board laid out in front of you. As you meticulously glue and place each new image, you get another message.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Then Michael finally starts to open up. He explains that, get this, he makes porn movies in his free time. And that Ellie apparently wanted to star in one of his porn films for payment. That's what he says they plan to do the night they met up. You know, the night that she thought she'd be hanging out with Nate Peters.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Even just as it felt like they'd get a confession from him, it was just another dead end again. Michael claimed that when the police first came to his house to ask about Ellie, he had destroyed the SD card holding their quote-unquote consensual sex tape, complete with handcuffs, strangling, and, oh yeah, a bag over Ellie's head, according to Michael himself.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
It's the same text me number. But this time, they've sent something new. Something much scarier. You don't want to look, but you can't help yourself, can you? The video opens, and your heart sinks. It's you right there, sitting at your dining room table. The camera is low, like the voyeur was crouched just outside the patio furniture, filming you through the window.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
He describes this snuff torture porn video that he planned to sell and the details of what he admits he did to Ellie add to the case another dark coincidence, he says. After hours upon hours of painstaking interrogation, even without a full confession, Michael had revealed enough cracks in his story for detectives to piece together a detailed picture.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
August 24th, 2018 was the date of Michael's last BCI interrogation, and on the same day, Ellie's body was located in a ditch near the corner of a farming field. She was found within a quarter of a mile of Michael's house. Her shallow grave was concealed by shrubbery, with a barbed wire fence dividing it from the rest of the field. A square shovel was discovered nearby.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Ellie's remains, mostly skeletonized, told a story that was heartbreaking. And horrifying. Wrapped in a bed sheet and a purple blanket, her arms and legs were bound with duct tape, and a bag had been tied over her head. The cord was also entangled with her body. The coroner determined her cause of death to be asphyxiation, so it's possible this was the murder weapon.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Though Michael hadn't spelled it out, he'd said enough. Enough to lead detectives to Ellie and charge him with her murder. Meanwhile, as law enforcement swarmed the field, gathering evidence and preparing for the removal of Ellie's body, a bright rainbow stretched across the sky. above the crime scene. Everyone noticed it. People cried and took photos.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
29-year-old Michael Strauss eventually pleaded guilty to all his crimes. His sentencing brought to light the horrific reality of her final moments, something that her family had not understood up until that point. During his sentencing, Strauss appeared in court with two black eyes, the work of his fellow inmates.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
The judge handed down a maximum sentence, 15 years to life for murder, plus an additional two and a half years for stalking and abuse of a corpse, with no possibility of parole for at least 17 and a half years. Strauss will spend the better part of his life behind bars. On the day Ellie's family laid her to rest, something remarkable happened.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
As mourners gathered at the church to say their final goodbyes, a bright neon rainbow stretched across the sky. It was just like the one that appeared the day her body was found. For Ellie's family and friends, these rainbows became a symbol of light piercing through unimaginable darkness. Her mother described them as a sign, a reminder of Ellie's enduring presence, even in her absence.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Ellie's story is one of loss, but also of resilience. In her journal, she wrote about her struggles, her fears, her dreams. Though her life was cut tragically short, her words remain a testament to her spirit. Don't ignore your gut. Or red flags, she wrote. You can sense evil. Stay in tune with your senses.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
It's a lesson for all of us to trust our instincts, to protect one another, and to remember even in the shadows of the darkest storm, you may find a rainbow. Well, that's AI Mike signing off. Can you believe some idiots online think this is AI? They think I'm AI? Like, how fucking dumb do you have to be? AI would never be allowed to say all the shit I say.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
But, uh, there's no shortage of stupid in the world, so there's that. Speaking of stupid, go check out our stupid merch at store.swordandscale.com. And if you haven't signed up for Plus, well, it's how we pay for all this stuff. So if you like this stuff being around in the universe, then, you know, throw in a couple bucks and help support it. Otherwise, it may not be here tomorrow.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
We could make money like every other podcast, but we don't want to push shitty products on you via advertising that you probably shouldn't be buying anyway. So we have to do some filtering around here and that, you know, lowers our revenue and that makes it hard for us to pay our employees and our bills.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
So this is an extra long guilt trip to tell you that if you've been enjoying Sword and Scale for the last X number of years for free, maybe throw in 10 bucks this month. You know, it's not a lot to ask. 10 bucks is not a lot to ask for years of entertainment. And then you can listen to all the back catalog and cancel at the end of the month like you always do anyway. All right.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
I guess that's my sales pitch. I'm not really good at sales. I'm more a podcast guy. I'm moderately good at that. So I guess I'm rambling at this point. So if you want to support us, head on over to swordandskill.com. Join plus. See you next week. Stay safe.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
You feel your heart pounding in your throat as you replay the video again and again. You look at the angle and the way the camera dips slightly as if the person holding it was crouching. They were there. Right there. Only feet away from you. And you never even knew it. That's it. This isn't someone just being weird. This is dangerous. This is someone making unwanted contact.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
You close the tab and click the phone icon, frantically punching in 911. You tell them everything. The messages, the video, how it feels like you're being hunted. They listen, and you file a report, but it doesn't make you feel much better, does it? So you grab your journal and you start writing.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
She wrote it, but it wasn't enough. She still felt the weight of the anonymous voyeur pressing down on her every day.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
For Ellie, the fear wasn't just in the messages or the video. It was in everything. The way she thought about herself. She felt like no one could help. She felt completely alone. And the truth was, she was alone. No one was taking her seriously.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
The cop who filed the official statement was supposed to be in charge of Ellie's case, but he failed to log important evidence, and the whole thing was on a path to nowhere. Some cops are better than others, I guess. In the middle of this, Ellie was still looking for connection. Something to hold onto in the chaos. She was talking to a lot of people.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Some of them were guys she liked, but nothing was panning out the way she'd hoped. That's when Nate Peters texted her. Nate Peters wasn't a close friend, but they'd hung out before. They'd smoked together, they'd gone to a few of the same parties. He was familiar. And in this moment, familiar felt safe.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
For Ellie, these conversations were a small escape. Over the next few weeks, they kept in touch, and by late July, they were making plans to meet up and rekindle their friendship.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
And you might want to take a look if you're interested in the true crime genre. Because these things are... It takes a lot out of me to make one of these episodes. It really does. I mean... Wow. Wow. Imagine you're 23, living in a small town in godforsaken Ohio. Life here isn't exactly exciting, so you chase excitement wherever you can. Parties, festivals, raves. Do they still do raves?
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
In the early morning of July 28, 2018, when they both knew Ellie's mom wouldn't be around, Nate suggested they hang out. Ellie agreed.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Ellie left her house that night, unaware that everything was about to change. The streets were dark and empty, just like her life had felt for the last few months. It was late, and she was tired. Tired of being scared and tired of feeling alone. There, in the stillness of the air, she convinced herself that this was just another hangout. That Nate was just a friend.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
The alarm bells in her head fell silent. She didn't know at the time that sometimes the familiar can hide the greatest danger. Sometimes trusting the wrong person can be a fatal mistake. At just 23 years old, Ellie Weick was a free-spirited soul, trying to navigate the loneliness and uncertainty of young adulthood in Westchester, Ohio. You know, the entertainment hub of the U.S. Just kidding.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Don't ever go to Ohio. It sucks. Anywho, Ellie longed for connection, filling her days with art, journaling, and fleeting friendships. But beneath her vibrant exterior was a growing sense of fear. For months, Ellie had been targeted by an anonymous stalker. Unsettling messages had escalated to invasive voyeuristic videos. Her world, once chaotic but manageable, was becoming dangerous.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Despite making a report to the police, Ellie's cries for help went unanswered. Her journal entries reveal the depth of her fear and isolation. Still, Ellie tried to move forward, clinging to hope that familiarity could bring comfort. When an old friend, Nate Peters, reached out, Ellie hoped she'd find that comfort. On July 28th, 2018, the two made plans to meet up.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
After sending the text messages that arranged their meeting, Ellie was never heard from again. At first, her absence didn't raise alarms. It wasn't unusual for her to disappear for a day or two. She was, after all, a so-called free spirit and had a tendency to drift between friend groups.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
But when Ellie's mom returned home on August 1st after spending a few days with her boyfriend, she couldn't reach her daughter. The house was eerily quiet. Ellie's car had not moved, and she wasn't answering the phone. That's when her mom made a call to the Westchester police. The investigation began slowly. Ellie's lifestyle made it hard to pin down where she might have gone.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
And at first, the police treated her disappearance like a young adult who'd simply walked away. Apparently, none of the detectives working the case thought to connect the stalking report to her disappearance. But Ellie's friends reminded them, offering up text messages where Ellie had told them each separately about her stalker.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
Police began pouring through Ellie's phone records and buried within them was a name. And now we're going to play a little game called Am I Smarter Than the Average Sasshole? Can you guess what name it was? I mean, we've only mentioned one and it wasn't Leroy Jenkins. It was Nate Peters. Nate had been in contact with Ellie just hours before she vanished. Naturally, he was the best place to start.
Sword and Scale
Episode 295
You go by Nate, by the way? Yeah. How'd you meet her? Everybody seems to meet this girl at concerts or camping.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Okay, so this happened in June. Yeah. You all had this argument. You wanted your stuff back. Yep. And she gave you the stuff back. She gave me the stuff back.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
When you say messed up, what does that mean? She's drunk. She's intoxicated. Did she drink a bunch? Yeah, Sliv drinks a lot.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
You willing to give us a DNA swab, you know, just a swab of your mouth? A swab of my mouth? Yeah, we just take a swab and take a sample. DNA sample. You willing to do that? Well, you want to prove that you're not involved in this anyway. No, I'm not involved. So if you're not involved in this, then you have to... I get them, so I'm not left... We call it exclusionary. Yeah.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
It's exclusionary. That's basically all it is. Are you willing to do that? Yeah, I'll do it.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Well, we just want more detail about really that week, you know, your relationship with Antonio and also you knew the victim. Is that right?
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Celia came on board while y'all were dating or seeing each other or whatever?
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Well, you don't seem like the jealous type. You don't seem like it to me, but I don't know. I mean, under different circumstances. You're not really looking to get something serious, are you?
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Not being faithful to her. Yeah. And did you ever know him? Did he ever say anything about hurting her in any way? No.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
And we need you to be completely truthful with us. Okay. Do you know who killed Celina?
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
He had a mixture of his and yours, but they were able to separate it out to identify the person.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
I mean, that you all had sex, and then, you know, he just basically cleaned up with that a little bit himself, and your DNA would be on there, too. It doesn't take much.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Do you realize how serious this is? I understand how serious this is. You really understand how serious this is? Yes.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
And to get somebody in handcuffs, to get them arrested is, that means you have to have evidence. We have evidence. Okay, we have evidence that You didn't stay in his apartment the whole night. You were in the car, so that is car. We have evidence that you bought gas up in Stark, wearing that blue jacket that's on the search warrant. We have more than just that shot of just the back shot of you.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Honestly, I don't think you killed Selena. I didn't. Okay? Okay? But I believe Antonio told you what happened. And maybe it was an accident. I don't know what it was. Maybe he never intended her to die. That's fine.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
And then you came over, and then, like, what you do for Antonio is everything.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Well, you're there for Antonio. You're there for Antonio, regardless of what you do and what you don't do. You're there for Antonio. And he asked you... Basically, he puts you in a really bad jam, in my opinion, of how it went down. I could be wrong, but based on our conversations, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he puts you in a really bad spot.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
What, that Tony is down there? Yeah, I mean, if I don't see nothing... We can prove that he's down the hall. I'll bet you my paycheck on it.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Can you peek through the window? Do you want to see him in handcuffs? I don't want to see him. I know y'all got him.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
You need me to throw more out here for you? We know you left with Tony. We know you went up there. We know you went to the convenience store. We know you bought the gas for $2. We know you were in the same car. We know you answered the telephone when Selena's new boyfriend called and said she's asleep. And then he said, he said, she'll call you tomorrow.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
All right, like I said, we'll have a deputy transport you. Where is he at? The deputy?
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
He can't see you. We're not going to let him see you. We're not going to go ahead and transport you. And he won't see you leave. He's in a whole other room. No, I said something. Am I...
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
It's a matter of degrees. You know what degrees is? It's a matter of if you intentionally hurt somebody or you don't intentionally, it just happened or it's accidental. That all plays a part in how things can happen. It is murder you're talking about. Well, it is.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
She'd have to go in the apartment and get the car keys to drive it over to your house with the body in the trunk.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
Mike, you're here on your own free will. You're here, you know, basically as a witness. We're investigating the death of Celia.
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
And we'd just like to know, you know, start from the beginning, where'd you meet her?
Sword and Scale
Episode 284
When's the last time? And I'm going to ask you some personal questions. It's just the way it is. This is serious. When's the last time you all slept together?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Hey, are you Aiden? Hey, I'm Detective Police Officer with the Sheriff's Office. We're trying to figure out where Christian's at. And I'm not trying to get you in trouble or anything like that. Obviously, I'm more concerned now about her safety and what she's doing and where she could be hanging out. You're telling him that there may be another path that he's maybe staying at? Or she's staying at?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
So why did she do that, though? Was she, like... Were y'all talking about, like... She's a... Other classmates had mentioned this elusive 21, 22-year-old guy, too.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
When you're done over there, bring the canines over to Leith Hall and North Durban to get a scent from over here. Yeah. Yeah, he's with me in the car. Okay, bye.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Take his phone for now. We're going to be holding on to your phones, all right, buddy?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Your message to Dream Girl says they took my phone. I'm using Siri and I love you. Bye. Ready to send it?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Your message to Dream Girl says, I'm talking through the glass, I cannot see your text. Ready to send it?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
So obviously we're here because went missing. Um, and we're trying to figure out where she could be at. And I just want to ask you some questions about like the last time you had maybe seen her or, you know, what's been going on with her or anything like that. Um, from your knowledge, when was the last time you saw her talk?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Yeah, have you tried calling her or texting her or anything like that? Have you had any luck? Yeah, I've called her a few times, but it just gets straight to placement. Okay. Has this ever happened with her before that you're aware of? No. No? No. You've never heard of her sneaking out until today or? No. Okay.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Sam. Sam. Okay. Sam. Sam. What? Please just be honest with me. I don't think you're not being honest, but somebody just sent me a message, and it said that Lena didn't tell the police everything that she knows. Sam, does Lena know anything else? If she doesn't know anything, can you get it out of her?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
You know, you don't speak until Andy comes. You don't have to speak in the cop car. You don't have to speak anywhere until your attorney comes, which is Andy.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
So you did not have to speak in none of the cop cars. You had to speak anywhere until he was present. You just say, I'm not speaking to my attorneys here. That was it.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
No, she's dead. That's why this is very important. It's all on you right now.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
This is very serious, Aiden. You can't act like, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't know. You can't, and you can't say nothing.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Now we have people wanting to burn our house down and our car down. Because of that Snapchat thing you did. It's all over. You're all over the internet and everywhere.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Did you tell him anything different in the cop car that we don't want? You think she got picked up by him?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Like you think she got picked up after that? She just kept walking? Do you know if she turned the other direction or if she was just still walking behind you?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
I didn't say anything. I understand. I was just asking when you told them.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
This is no joke. This is your whole life. Your whole life. And ours. And ours. And your brother's and sister. Did she really grab you and you just really pushed her, or was that...? No, she did.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
And... How did she show you the jeans, or did she say anything while she was showing you the jeans?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
This is when they report you. Yes. Everything you said was recorded. The other room was not.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
Yes. They're gonna search my house first. And if there's any kind of thing that links, I doubt he's going to go home, Jason.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
So nothing out of, like, mess with your mind to do anything you were supposed to?
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
At some point in time, the defendant in our investigation, Aiden Fuji, was transported to the Duval County Jail, and he was placed somewhere in the vicinity of you, correct? Yes, sir. Okay, and where were you located at whenever Aiden Fuji was transported and housed in the Jacksonville County Jail? I mean, I've lost any information. Eye block segregation.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
So if you could explain to me kind of how these cells are arranged or situated. Okay. That's it.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
I have none of that. Okay. Before Aiden Fucci was transported and housed in the Jacksonville County Jail, did you have any knowledge of this case that we're investigating in St. Johns County? No, sir. Okay. So how did you become aware of this investigation that we're working in St. Johns County? Aiden Fucci told me.
Sword and Scale
Episode 288
And then you came back over here and that's when law enforcement started to show up, correct?
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
As Dick mentioned, we're here, you know, helping out with the investigation and trying to figure out what happened with Ms. Graber. What do you think happened to her?
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
That's what we've heard. We'd like her to just stop and leave. And when you say she's very routine, what do you know about her that would indicate that she's very routine?
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
Do you know of anybody out there that would have a serious gripe with Ms. Graber that may want to hurt her in some way?
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
No, not for just... If you smash a window and... If you go inside and start messing around, that could be an issue, but... For a high schooler, that's pretty... Yeah, that would look good. So tell me this. Is there any... Can you think of any reason why somebody might say you were involved? Uh, because we butt heads in class. Okay.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
But like with a little bit more specifically, like anybody might say like, Hey, listen, I know for a fact he was involved. Not, I think he was.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
I get why you came in here and you spent the first 45 minutes avoiding certain things, because they're very, very uncomfortable to talk with, okay? But even in this new version of it that you're telling me where you were out there and you actually saw Miss Graber. I saw her pull up. You saw her pull up and then you decided, oh, I don't want to be a part of this.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
That doesn't, I don't buy that for a second. Not for a second. She pulled up and I knew. Here's why. Can I tell you why that doesn't shake out? Sure. Because for 45 minutes you were in here saying, no Chautauqua, barely any Germany, nowhere but my house. Then all of a sudden that confronts you with the fact of something that you already knew was true. And then your story changes, but not enough.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
Okay, like I said, we have a lot of people working on this. I can tell in your eyes that you have regrets. Okay? But the lies and the falsehoods and half-truths don't show a person who's remorseful about what they did.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
We're right back to where we started. You understand, Chayden, you understand how that doesn't shake out, okay? And as I told you, we have other people putting you a lot deeper involved in this than what you're explaining, okay? Basically, what we're trying to figure out is whether you're the ringleader...
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
With all the interviews being conducted and all the surveillance footage reviewed, there was one person who could either get Chayden off the hook or completely drown him.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
I'm glad you're here because we certainly have a lot of things that we kind of need to hash out and whatnot. I've got some questions that I'd certainly like to discuss with Jeremy if possible. But because he's a minor, we need to go through you, okay? I'm sure at the conclusion of any questions that I have, I'm sure he'll have some questions for me.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
But ultimately, that's completely up to the two of you whether you'd want to speak any further with me and hear what I have to say.
Sword and Scale
Episode 287
So at this point, and I'll be upfront and honest with you, at this point, human remains have been located. Okay? Those human remains have not been positively identified as this grave or But due to a lot of different circumstances, we feel this is a murder investigation.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
I want to make sure you fully understand. Anytime there is a serious injury, we're there. And you're a lawyer, so I assume that you understand all the... You're here voluntarily, so for me to ask you questions about what happened tonight, I'm just trying to get enough information to determine what's going on.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
Mark was the only source of information, and being a lawyer himself, the cops knew he wouldn't be talking with them unless he had nothing to do with this. I mean, why would he?
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
Mark's theory was that Sherry got out of the bath, slipped, fell, and hit her head.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
All right. So no discussion with her about having more children? Absolutely not.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
Try to relax and that way I can clearly understand what you're saying. It sounded like you said that she had concerns that he was going to kill her.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
I believe she was killed in the master bathroom of her home. I believe that she received multiple injuries to her upper back and neck and head through a physical altercation. Also, her nose and upper lip were injured. I believe she succumbed to those injuries and her body was staged in the master bathroom for police to find.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
Well, my theory, and if the prosecutors are okay with me giving my theory, is that the linear injuries on her back and upper neck and head were probably a result of being forcefully thrown against the tile ledge at the back of the bathtub. Okay. The blood that was visible to me on that night was diluted with water and appeared to me like maybe a head that was already bloody had been placed there.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
I found out later that not only had he pushed the thought or tried to convey clearly the dangerous situation in the bathroom with the ledge and how he had pointed it out before and he knew that this ledge was going to hurt somebody at some point. He passed that along to other people as long as me.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
I felt like when I found out that this was included in his conversations to almost everybody, that that was an indicator that there was more to the story than just slip and fall that he had portrayed for me. and hit her head on that ledge, the ledge would have caused the bleeding to start, but her head would already be gone. It would be down on the floor.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
So that's why I would expect more blood on the floor than I was, I wouldn't even expect to see much or any blood on the ledge itself.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
There was a lot of blood that just wasn't at the scene, and I did notice that, and I did make that statement in my first or second supplement to the case, is that there was just not enough blood on the floor to account for the stains and for the injuries. But I wasn't fully aware of the injuries at that point. You have to understand that I never saw the body until the autopsy.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
And that was after the fact. So I gained more information and more suspicion and more knowledge about her injuries after the fact that let me know that this top where there was no blood visible should be checked or examined.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
I found it odd that two people took a bath and their clothes were downstairs in the washer.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
Yeah, the soap especially was odd because the soap container was found in a tipped-over position on the floor. And I think you probably got the gist from our experiment that if you... If you knocked over a bottle of soap, the soap would be emanating from the area where the container is.
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
The officers that were first on scene, and from my recollection, there was visible blue soap on top of the bath mat. throughout the throughout the scene that I don't believe it would have been possible for the soap to emanate from the area where the bottle was on top of the to get up onto the
Sword and Scale
Episode 294
And I don't think that the amount of soap that was missing is physically possible from turning that container over. So if you knock over a container of blue soap, it's only going to drain to the area where the lip of the spout is. It won't drain an inch and a half, two inches below that spout because gravity won't allow it to flow upwards and out of the bottle.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
She immediately went to her. She was cold. She was not breathing. She was screaming for Lisa to come and help. Jan was able to get the phone and call 911. Lisa still was not coming. Of course, first responders, you know, the police officers were there first and then medics and realized, of course, at that point that Robin had been killed.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
And one of the, she had asked something about, what about Lisa? You know, why, where is she? She didn't realize Lisa also had been killed.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
Let me just make sure that I understand. You're currently in custody at the Lee County Jail for some allegations with your son, is that correct? Yes, ma'am. Okay. I am not here to talk with you at all about that. I would like to talk with you about a couple other cases that your name has come up in that you might have some information and might be able to help us with.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
The reason that I ask about Lorraine or Lori is because you and she appeared to have a home not far from the hospital here in Cape Coral years back. I remember living in Cape Coral. This is the first time I've been here. You've got a couple of addresses here in the Cape.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
Well, back in 1990, we had a pretty big case here in Cape Coral where somebody broke into an apartment. And I was hoping that you could maybe talk to me about what you remember about that apartment complex. If you saw anybody suspicious, if you were ever around there, if you could help me with that. Do you have a picture of the, does that look familiar to you at all? No. Nothing at all.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
And that's all old stuff, so I mean, it's not like, you know, and we're not in Illinois, so it's not like I'm going to charge you with it. I'm just asking kind of, you know, how your brain worked and how you did things.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
I know that's what she keeps saying, and I'm sure that you do have some memory issues. I think that you're also trying to play that card right now.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
Her name is Robin. She's not just a little girl. Her name is Robin. Okay. Robin was a sweet, wonderful girl. Alright.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
I'm not implying anything. I'm telling you. I'm saying that you know Robin. I don't know Robin. You've seen her. You've met her. I don't know these girls.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
Do you remember being swabbed by the detective that you had a long conversation with, that you told him what happened between you and your son? I'm not getting into that. But that you talked to him about what happened between you and your son, that you talked to him about your accident, the settlement, the house that you bought, all kinds of those details.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
And you remember him swabbing with a big, long Q-tip the inside of your mouth?
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
Okay, because that is procedure. All right. Do you understand how DNA works? No. Do you know what DNA is?
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
You have no clue at all? No, ma'am. Okay, so DNA to you could mean really just about anything. Okay, just explain what DNA is. What is your understanding of DNA? I don't have any understanding of DNA. What is DNA? I don't know.
Sword and Scale
Episode 293
So when you were swapped, when they took your DNA, that went to a database. All right. And your DNA was found on my crime scene from a previous, you know, back in 1990. So this is the time, Joe, that I need for you to really take a nice deep breath and realize it's time for the lies to stop. It's time for the saying, I don't remember, I don't recall.
Sword and Scale
Episode 292
Okay, so then when you read the text messages, and I just want to understand, you felt sad, but what else did you feel when you saw her saying sweetie?
Sword and Scale
Episode 281
When I got inside, there didn't appear to be any ransacking in the living room area. We walked back into the hallway, which runs north and south between the garage and then the master bedroom, which was on the south side of the house. And I noticed lying in the hallway... in a supine or face up position was a white female victim who was bleeding.
Sword and Scale
Episode 281
Her head was closest to the entryway to the master bedroom and she was lying on the tiled floor between what would later be identified as a music room and then the bathroom. And then as I walked out toward the garage on the north side of that hallway, there was an African-American male who was lying on his right side against the refrigerator in that garage area.
Sword and Scale
Episode 281
So who knew you were going out this evening? I'm calling my fellow. All right, what I want to do is just take a tape statement, see if we can get all this transcribed and have a further report.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Do you know, have you seen the news or anything recently in the past week or so? You know what's going on in that area? Yeah. So then you know why I'm asking all these questions? I know. Are you familiar with the girl that went missing? I do not know anything. You don't know her? When you were over there working or anything, did you ever see her?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Some females passing out flyers. So nothing about her looks familiar. You don't know her? Not at all. You have no information as to her whereabouts or what happened to her? What's the next thing that you heard about what was going on over there?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Well, if I was to tell you that we found your DNA inside the house in the upstairs, would that surprise you? Probably through the kitchen, maybe. I can tell you that we didn't find your DNA in the kitchen. That's not the room that we found your DNA in. That's the reason I'm asking you if you went into any other part of the house. You know your DNA is on file. Yeah, yeah.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
The kitchen isn't where we found it because there was nothing in the kitchen. The kitchen was empty. The dining room was where we found your DNA. Do you want to think about whether or not you were in that room at all? than how to explain your DNA and actually your print in the dining room.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Did you find anything in any of the other rooms that you guys took or touched?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Yeah, and I understand that. Getting back to her now, now that we've got the house down pat, you've never met her, you've never seen her before, you didn't recognize her when you saw the flyer?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
She's not a friend of yours or somebody that you talked to on the street when you were working on the street?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Well, sure, she's a 14-year-old girl. I can understand that. So then my next question would be, can you explain how your DNA, your semen, would have ended up inside her? I don't know anything about that. You don't know anything about that?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Okay, you weren't over there. Then I've got to wonder how your semen could have ended up inside of her. So now we have your DNA inside the house. We have your fingerprints inside the house. And now, now we have your DNA inside of her.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
there's going to be more things that are going to come up once they're finished testing it. So I'm asking you this now, you can get in front of this, straighten this out, tell your side of the story, or you can just let us assume whatever we want to. It's up to you, all right? You want to explain to us what happened?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
How did you meet her? How did you get to talking to her? Did you see her before that day?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Never? Well, then how did you get talking to her? Tell us what happened.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
So why don't you just tell us how you came upon Aliana, that's her name, how you came upon her, how you got to talking to her. How did that come about? What happened? It's crazy. What did you say? It's crazy.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
So you're telling me there was more than just you there? Is that what you're saying, Chris?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Well, you were there on Wednesday night. She wasn't picked up until Thursday morning.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
I'm just wondering if you had any conversation with her and if she talked to you at all? No, I never talked to her. Was she crying, emotional? No, she wasn't crying, no.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
You gave the condom to somebody. Well, there's only two other guys there, so who did you give it to?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
So your DNA on the condom wrapper that was in the living room would explain? It was on my hands. You touched it, you opened it, and then you handed the open condom to the other guy? I got to go because it's about time for me to go to work.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
There's only one problem with your story, Chris. The footprints in the house. There's only one set. They're yours. There's only one set. There's only one set.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
I'm not lying to you. I can show you the pictures. There's only one set of footprints in there.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
I believe that you were high on drugs. I believe that you were out of your mind. I can believe that point. But I don't believe that two unknown strangers that you've never met before in your life bring you to this house that you've already been to a couple of times. Just decide to go to the same house that you've already been to. And then you leave.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
And surprisingly, in a matter of 10 minutes, they find her, bring her into the house, get her naked, and then you return. It doesn't match up, Chris. So you're like halfway there. You're halfway to accepting responsibility, but you're still trying to blame other people.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Don't do that. Please don't do that. The prints that you left behind were bloody prints. They could only have gotten bloody if she was bloody. Do you understand what I'm saying? You couldn't have just jacked off on her and then left and she was fine if you had bloody prints left in the dining room.
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Did you have those tools with you when you went to the house? Was that something you were carrying around? No. Whose backpack is that?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
Yeah, Chris, there's just one more question that we have for you as far as that's concerned because I can see this is uncomfortable for you. I appreciate you telling us what happened, but there's one thing that's not. I've got to get it out because I swear. After you dragged Aliana into that bedroom, there's evidence that you then did something to her before you left. Do you recall that?
Sword and Scale
Episode 290
I mean, I was... There's indications based on the condition of the room that you then cut her one more time, at least. Do you recall that?
The Excerpt
Coming Soon: Untested
The thought of, what if we had to do this again? I mean, that was too much to even think about. I said, he's going to do it again, and it's going to be worse.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Did you just say, no, I'm not going to park there. I'm going to drive up to your home. This really sounds bizarre.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Simple as that. Simple as that. Do you believe that Linda Updike is involved in this?
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
I believe that she knows more than what she's saying and what she's telling.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
How would Michael Oakes know that Mark Stover always wore a hat and wore an overcoat driving a car? Through Linda.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Linda was his basis of information. Linda had knowledge. She had direct knowledge. You know, she was married to Mark. She knew him best.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
She won't sit down and talk to you? She won't sit down and talk to us. She's lawyered up? She's lawyered up.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
So what are you telling me? You shot Mark Stover in self-defense?
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
This is not a case of self-defense. This is a case of cold-blooded murder.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Did you set out on the morning of October 28th, 2009 to murder Mark Stover?
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
We were a small department, and we only have five detectives.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Michael Oakes says he walked right up the front door.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
He knocks on the door. Mark Stover answers the door.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Mark Stover comes around the corner.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Where you're standing right there, right now. He says, Mark Stover came around the corner, fired one shot.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
We have him on surveillance tape at a local Walmart store here in Mount Vernon at approximately 5.30 in the morning. What did he buy? Michael Oakes bought anchor line, anchor weights. He bought camo pants, camo sweatshirt, and a backpack.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Camouflage clothing. Camouflage, yes. Kind of an odd, eclectic bunch of stuff, isn't it? Yes.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
I believe that he bought those items to dispose of Mark's body.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
The reason he bought those is that he knew Mark Stover had his dog, Ding, and that Ding was trained as a protection dog.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Michael Oakes' car arrives in the area of Mark Stover's house sometime between 6.30 and 7 a.m. in the morning. It would still be dark.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
I think he came up the right-hand side of this driveway right here. You can see the tree lines, fence lines. He could have easy concealment. It's dark out. I think as he's in the area of the kennels right here, the dogs are barking. They sense someone or something on the property. Mark was probably alerted to the dogs barking at the kennel, sensed something was wrong.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
And I think the dog was shot right away. Ding starts to yelp. Mark hears Ding yelping. Mark comes out, probably on the carport door porch there, or maybe out in the driveway. where Michael Oakes encounters Mark Stover.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
I believe Mark Stover was probably shot just right in this area where we're standing right here. It's the first time. I think he was shot several times. And the first time he was shot, he probably started to retreat back to his residence.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
It's too unbelievable that he could get shot in the vest, lunge at Stover, grab his hand, twist it, and shoot Stover and take him down, he's gonna back up or he's going to grab his chest as a normal reaction of somebody being shot. But he doesn't even say that. He says he immediately goes into a defensive mode and grabs Mark Stover's hand and gun, twists, shoots, fires, Mark Stover falls.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
What made you think it was Mark?
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
That was huge. They had no idea what was going on. They just happened to see two vehicles parked behind the Grange.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
It's a rugged two-lane highway that leads through very rural areas of Okanagan and Skagit County.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Put Up or Shut Up
Mark Stover's blood is in your vehicle. How did it get there?
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Who Was The Hunter & Who Was The Hunted? | Trained to Kill
It's a beautiful love. In my opinion, it's legendary.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Who Was The Hunter & Who Was The Hunted? | Trained to Kill
I can only describe it as evil. something horrible, something terrible.
Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard
Who Was The Hunter & Who Was The Hunted? | Trained to Kill
His eyes went just crazy. He clenched his hands and fists, and he was just in a shaking rage.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
2016. Completing a missing persons report. Hi there.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Oh, okay.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Hi. I'm here for a missing persons report. What's going on?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
So before you even got down to the sardine can, he text you that she just stormed off south on Maple Street. What was she mad about?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Were you guys drinking?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Yeah.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Did you see her walking?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Is it normal for her to sleep off being angry at you somewhere else? Is that normal?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
She told you where she was at, but she was definitely upset at that time, thinking maybe she saw you talking to somebody?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
That she was upset with you?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Fitbit Helped Solve This Murder?! The Case of Nicole VanderHeyden
Can I see the text? Why is she calling you abusive?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I know.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Well, you had two of them up there for a last-minute lunch date, right?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Well, I mean, you went up there. You're sitting with them. You have friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Oh, are you saying that you think maybe one of your friends would have done something like this?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I don't know. That's why you're here, and that's why we're talking.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Did he ever meet Danny?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Had Jeff ever been to your former house on Trescott?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Would he have any reason to go there?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Does he know where?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Or, you know, what, what was the most recent time from now? Um, the most recent pastime, that you had this discussion about the trials and tribulations of your ex-husband and so forth with Jeff? It was all the time. All the time. Okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
HEARTLESS: Mother POISONS Her Baby with FENTANYL to "Relax More"
Any further questions?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
HEARTLESS: Mother POISONS Her Baby with FENTANYL to "Relax More"
Is there any more questions, officer, detective?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
HEARTLESS: Mother POISONS Her Baby with FENTANYL to "Relax More"
So why did COF tell me hypoxic cardiac arrest?