It’s a powerful biological response that has preserved our species for millennia. But now it may be keeping us from pursuing strategies that would improve the environment, the economy, even our own health. So is it time to dial down our disgust reflex? You can help fix things — as Stephen Dubner does in this 2021 episode — by chowing down on some delicious insects. SOURCES:Paul Rozin, professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania.Val Curtis, late disgustologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.Sandro Ambuehl, economist at the University of Zurich.Emily Kimmins, R&D lead for the sensory and consumer-science team for Kraft Heinz.Iliana Sermeno, former chef at The Black Ant. RESOURCES:“Stink Bugs Could Add Cilantro Flavor to Red Wine,” by Alex Berezow (Live Science, 2017).“Edible insects: Future Prospects for Food and Feed Security,” by the F.A.O. (United Nations, 2013).“I Hate to Break it to You, but You Already Eat Bugs,” by Kyle Hill (Scientific American, 2013).“Five Banned Foods and One That Maybe Should Be,” by Leah Binkovitz (Smithsonian Magazine, 2012).“Effects of Different Types of Antismoking Ads on Reducing Disparities in Smoking Cessation Among Socioeconomic Subgroups,” by Sarah J. Durkin, Lois Biener, and Melanie A. Wakefield (American Journal of Public Health, 2009).“Flesh Trade,” by Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt (The New York Times, 2006).“Feeding Poultry Litter to Beef Cattle,” by Jay Daniel and K.C. Olson (University of Missouri, 2005). EXTRAS:"Why Does Everyone Hate Rats?" by Freakonomics Radio (2025).
Chapter 1: Why revisit the topic of disgust?
Hey there, it's Stephen Dubner. We just finished publishing our series on rats, which reminded me of an episode from the archives that I thought you might like to hear. You will understand within the first few seconds why I was reminded of this episode. It was first published in early 2021, although we began making this episode in early 2020 and put it aside when the pandemic struck.
Anyway, we have updated facts and figures as necessary. I hope you enjoy it. As always, thanks for listening. If you sat down at my kitchen table and I put an insect in front of you, maybe a cricket or a grasshopper, would you eat it? If you answered no, and I'm guessing you did, then why not? Your answer likely has something to do with disgust.
But have you ever wondered why eating an insect is disgusting? You ever wondered why disgust exists? And what else do you find disgusting? Are there any universal disgusts?
Fecal material, for example, is inherently disgusting. Every person on the planet, with a few strange exceptions, finds fecal material something they want to stay away from.
But once you get past poop, absolutes are hard to find.
There are enormous variations in disgust.
Consider, for instance, the animals we eat and don't eat.
I'm a massive dog lover, but I would eat dog out of curiosity.
In California, you cannot eat horse, whereas in many European countries, you have horse butcheries.
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Chapter 2: What are the universal triggers of disgust?
So you're saying that that ych or blech or whatever is literally a pre-vomit sound, yes?
Yes, and everybody would understand it wherever you were in the world.
But beyond the physical expressions of disgust, there is an emotional component, which goes beyond the things we put in our mouths.
So my definition of disgust is a system that evolved in the first place to help us avoid parasites and pathogens. But when you've got a system like that, that is so useful, and we use the same neurons to detect social disgust and moral disgust as we do to detect pathogen disgust, I think it's reasonable to call it the same thing.
That area is not as well-defined, and so there's a big discussion now in moral psychology of the extent to which disgust is really a moral emotion.
When someone says that they are, quote, disgusted by another person's actions, something they consider immoral or unethical, maybe cruel, is that something that you consider disgust, an extension of the food disgust, or is it more, in your view, metaphorical?
Well, that's the big issue, whether it's metaphorical use of disgust or it's actual disgust. And one critical issue there is whether the same brain area is involved, for which there is some evidence, and also whether some of the other features of disgust, even a little sense of nausea, is involved.
It does seem that when moral violations are called disgusting, they often have a bodily component to them, like an axe murderer, not a bank robber.
But what if I say I'm disgusted by the actions of, let's say, a politician? What he did disgusts me. I can't imagine there's actual nausea attached to that, for instance.
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Chapter 3: Who are the experts studying disgust?
Thank you.
So do you personally feel it's your mission to make insect eating more acceptable, or you just happen to land here?
Yes. I do like grasshoppers. You go through Mexico streets, and you can grab a pound of grasshoppers and eat it while you walk. It's healthier than chips and stuff like that.
Is there any advice you could give generally on the idea of making insects more palatable to people?
So when they come for a first time, I would try to give them the croquettes. It's a little bit more soft. They're delicious. They have cheese, a more similar taste. Then if they want to feel more adventurous, I will send like a whole dish of croquettes or grasshoppers. I try to push it a little bit at a time.
Our thing right now is black soldier flies. Black soldier fly larvae are the best because they are, it's not that they taste better, but they have a short life cycle. They're great for the future.
So you'll take the ants and the grasshoppers and the ant-flecked guacamole home? Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much, and it was a great meal.
Oh, yeah, sure, thank you.
All right, if I come back, I'll bring you some black soldier flags. I have 10 pounds of them because that's the smallest amount I could get.
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