Emily Kimmins
Appearances
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So when you say insects, the first thing I want to know is what kind of insects. And the second thing I want to know is, do you have to see the insect? Can the insect be hidden?
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
My name is Emily Kimmons, and I'm the senior manager of the sensory and consumer science team for Kraft Heinz.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So I'm in charge of the taste test for any new innovations that are coming out across all the brands in U.S. and Canada.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
We can only ask our professional tasters to work for two hours because even though we use them as analytical instruments, they really are just human. So if you ask them to taste more than, let's say, 10 to 12 macaroni and cheeses in a two-hour period, it all starts to taste the same. And then we'll do outside consumer panels in the evening. All we ask consumers to do is react. Just do you like it?
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Consumers need something physical to touch and taste and hold on to to tell you what they like and what they don't like. And the more different things you can give them, the richer your information is going to be.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Because it's usually only about 10% that ends up making it out on the market. They may be really good ideas, but there's something that gets in the way. There's ingredients that aren't available. It's just too expensive to manufacture it. There's consumers that are really interested, but not enough consumers to really make it make sense as a business.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So when you say insects, the first thing I want to know is what kind of insects. And the second thing I want to know is do you have to see the insect? Can the insect be hidden? What form is the insect in? Maybe a worm can look happy and be, you know, maybe worms are okay, but cockroaches, never okay. And is it cricket flour or am I eating a physical big old cricket? All of those things matter.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
And it also matters what we're used to. So depending on where you live in the world, eating insects might be completely fine. Already part of my diet. No big deal. Give me some more insects.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
If we're talking U.S. and Canada, yeah, the biggest concern is the ick factor. You need to understand how you can overcome the ickiness of the thought behind I'm going to be eating some insects. That's the biggest thing. We have to make sure we can get it into people's mouths before they can judge whether they actually like it or don't like it.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
One of the biggest tricks that we have is blending familiar with unfamiliar. So if you can blend it with something that they already know, they already like, you have a better chance of getting new flavors into their repertoire, like new fruits combined with strawberries. You'll see strawberry kiwi. You see strawberry goji berries, strawberry acai berry.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Well, I like strawberries, so I'm willing to try whatever the other new thing is as long as it's still with strawberries.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So there are classic consumers that say, don't touch my product. I love it. I want it exactly the way it is. I want it the same every time I get it everywhere in the world.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
That's a Heinz ketchup. I want Heinz ketchup to always taste the same. It's familiar. It's comforting. It's trusting.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Then you have other consumers that might be more adventurous. Even Philadelphia cream cheese. They might be more adventurous consumers. They're dipping stuff in it. Cricket cream cheese. It could be a thing.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
I think for the general food world, it's probably about a five because there are people in the world that eat it. It is available. There are products that I can buy on the Internet right now. It's not that inconceivable. I think for Kraft Heinz, it would be a little bit harder. I think it would be at least a seven. But still possible. Yeah, it's still possible. You're not wasting your time.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
If you use a different language, too, like, oh, this came from Japan, like edamame. You know, those are soybeans. Well, it's edamame. It sounds fancy. I think that might be a actually brilliant way to do it. Make it sound exotic. Make it sound adventurous. Insect in Japanese, by the way, is kanchu. It sounds great. A kanchu brownie sounds delicious.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
When in doubt, cover it with chocolate. It always helps.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
I have my great-grandmother's recipe book, and there's a whole section on squirrels. And I would never think of making squirrel or serving it to my children today, but my mother and grandmother ate it all the time.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
I mean, no one thinks of kiwi or mango as being this very unusual food, but 50 years ago, they seemed very odd and very scary. So will crickets and millworms and things like that eventually become mainstream? Partly, if they taste good.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Things tend to start in restaurants first and then filter their way down from fine dining to casual restaurants to fast food and then end up in retail. There's always going to be adventurous people that are willing to try lots of different things. And then if it tastes good and they're willing to say, hey, try this, it tastes good.