Sandro Ambuehl

That's Sandro Ambul, an economist at the University of Zurich. They think, if anything, about moral repugnance because that puts limits on what can be traded in markets.

That's Sandro Ambul, an economist at the University of Zurich. They think, if anything, about moral repugnance because that puts limits on what can be traded in markets.

For instance, it limits how much you can pay people to participate in medical trials or surrogate motherhood or human egg donation and so forth. There's limits on the incentives that you can provide for these kind of transactions. But is it true that incentives lead to worse decision making? We have all these laws that are based on this hunch.

For instance, it limits how much you can pay people to participate in medical trials or surrogate motherhood or human egg donation and so forth. There's limits on the incentives that you can provide for these kind of transactions. But is it true that incentives lead to worse decision making? We have all these laws that are based on this hunch.

Laws against, for instance, compensating kidney donors or even offering compensation for breast milk? It's something that is empirically testable, but hasn't been empirically tested. So that's the main question that I want to answer it.

Laws against, for instance, compensating kidney donors or even offering compensation for breast milk? It's something that is empirically testable, but hasn't been empirically tested. So that's the main question that I want to answer it.

He used college students, of course, as his research subjects. The way the experiment works is people made decisions in five rounds, and each round was associated with one species of insect.

He used college students, of course, as his research subjects. The way the experiment works is people made decisions in five rounds, and each round was associated with one species of insect.

House crickets, field crickets, and maybe the most disgusting ones are mole crickets. They are really nasty. In the beginning, I brought buckets and tissues because I was afraid that somebody might throw up. It turns out that didn't happen.

House crickets, field crickets, and maybe the most disgusting ones are mole crickets. They are really nasty. In the beginning, I brought buckets and tissues because I was afraid that somebody might throw up. It turns out that didn't happen.

In one experiment, for instance, there's two groups of people. If you're in the first group, you'll learn that you're going to be given $3 if you decide to eat five mealworms. If you're in the second group, you'll learn that you're going to be given $30 if you agree to eat five mealworms.

In one experiment, for instance, there's two groups of people. If you're in the first group, you'll learn that you're going to be given $3 if you decide to eat five mealworms. If you're in the second group, you'll learn that you're going to be given $30 if you agree to eat five mealworms.

Now, after you learn how much money you're given, but before you make a decision, you can choose between two videos to watch to inform yourself about what eating these things is going to be like. One video is called Why You May Want to Eat Insects. The other video is called Why You May Not Want to Eat Insects.

Now, after you learn how much money you're given, but before you make a decision, you can choose between two videos to watch to inform yourself about what eating these things is going to be like. One video is called Why You May Want to Eat Insects. The other video is called Why You May Not Want to Eat Insects.

So these are really large scorpions. They're like as big as your hand. And it takes about $200 to $300 to make college students eat those or to make some college students eat those. In the interest of scientific equity, Ambul ate one of these scorpions himself. Take a plastic spoon, put a small shrimp on it, season it with some motor oil, and then eat everything, including the spoon.

So these are really large scorpions. They're like as big as your hand. And it takes about $200 to $300 to make college students eat those or to make some college students eat those. In the interest of scientific equity, Ambul ate one of these scorpions himself. Take a plastic spoon, put a small shrimp on it, season it with some motor oil, and then eat everything, including the spoon.

I brought buckets and tissues. I was afraid that somebody might throw up. We look into what psychologists call the mere exposure effect.

I brought buckets and tissues. I was afraid that somebody might throw up. We look into what psychologists call the mere exposure effect.

That's about what eating a scorpion is like. What was Ambul trying to learn with this kind of experiment? I wanted to know if I offer incentives to somebody, what do I do with their quality of decision making?

That's about what eating a scorpion is like. What was Ambul trying to learn with this kind of experiment? I wanted to know if I offer incentives to somebody, what do I do with their quality of decision making?

What I'm interested in is whether if I pay people a larger amount of money, are they going to be more interested in watching the positive video than the negative video? And it turns out the answer to that question is yes.

What I'm interested in is whether if I pay people a larger amount of money, are they going to be more interested in watching the positive video than the negative video? And it turns out the answer to that question is yes.

So what did this tell Ambulance? This result looks like incentives are causing bad decisions. But if you're an economist, as Ambul is, these are, in fact, good decisions. How so? If I offer you very little for doing something you might not like, well, what you want to make sure is that you don't say yes by mistake. You're okay with saying no because there's not much to gain.

So what did this tell Ambulance? This result looks like incentives are causing bad decisions. But if you're an economist, as Ambul is, these are, in fact, good decisions. How so? If I offer you very little for doing something you might not like, well, what you want to make sure is that you don't say yes by mistake. You're okay with saying no because there's not much to gain.

Now, if I offer you a lot of money, saying no by mistake all of a sudden is quite expensive. And so you become more interested in learning about the upsides rather than the downsides of the transaction.

Now, if I offer you a lot of money, saying no by mistake all of a sudden is quite expensive. And so you become more interested in learning about the upsides rather than the downsides of the transaction.

In psychology, there's this phenomenon called the mirror exposure effect. And what it says is just as you are exposed to something over longer and longer time periods, you start liking it. And Ambul had noticed as he ran his insect experiments that the mirror exposure effect was working on him. So I was sitting there for a large number of hours putting insects into little plastic containers.

In psychology, there's this phenomenon called the mirror exposure effect. And what it says is just as you are exposed to something over longer and longer time periods, you start liking it. And Ambul had noticed as he ran his insect experiments that the mirror exposure effect was working on him. So I was sitting there for a large number of hours putting insects into little plastic containers.

I started snacking voluntarily on the house crickets.

I started snacking voluntarily on the house crickets.

Have you heard about the insect cheeses? That, again, is the economist Sandro Ambul. There's two somewhat well-known insect cheeses. And I think Sicily, they eat what's called Casamarzu. Actually, it's Sardinia where they eat Casamarzu. Which is cheese that they let sit and then flies come and lay their eggs into the cheese.

Have you heard about the insect cheeses? That, again, is the economist Sandro Ambul. There's two somewhat well-known insect cheeses. And I think Sicily, they eat what's called Casamarzu. Actually, it's Sardinia where they eat Casamarzu. Which is cheese that they let sit and then flies come and lay their eggs into the cheese.

And then you have the maggots crawling around and people eat that cheese with the maggots. In some parts of Germany, meanwhile? The Germans have mite cheese. So they have living mites in the cheese.

And then you have the maggots crawling around and people eat that cheese with the maggots. In some parts of Germany, meanwhile? The Germans have mite cheese. So they have living mites in the cheese.

are often fed? It's chicken litter. So the feces of chicken are processed and are then fed to cattle. And then you eat the cattle that have been fed on chicken.

are often fed? It's chicken litter. So the feces of chicken are processed and are then fed to cattle. And then you eat the cattle that have been fed on chicken.

I mean, judging from my own reaction and the reaction of many people I have seen, I do think it's going to be very, very hard to convince even a sizable minority of the population to consume insects on a regular basis.

I mean, judging from my own reaction and the reaction of many people I have seen, I do think it's going to be very, very hard to convince even a sizable minority of the population to consume insects on a regular basis.

I mean, they're not as disgusting as you'd think, but they're just not very good. I think it's much more likely that everybody would become a vegetarian than it is that people would start eating insects on a broad scale. But I do need to say, I think sushi was at a similar point in the US a couple of decades ago.

I mean, they're not as disgusting as you'd think, but they're just not very good. I think it's much more likely that everybody would become a vegetarian than it is that people would start eating insects on a broad scale. But I do need to say, I think sushi was at a similar point in the US a couple of decades ago.

And can you incentivize someone to look past their disgust? The way the experiment works is people made decisions in five rounds, and each round was associated with one species of insect. That's coming up after the break. I'm Stephen Dubner, and this is Freakonomics Radio.

And can you incentivize someone to look past their disgust? The way the experiment works is people made decisions in five rounds, and each round was associated with one species of insect. That's coming up after the break. I'm Stephen Dubner, and this is Freakonomics Radio.

In California, you cannot eat horse, whereas in many European countries, you have horse butcheries.

In California, you cannot eat horse, whereas in many European countries, you have horse butcheries.

That's Sandro Ambul, an economist at the University of Zurich. They think, if anything, about moral repugnance because that puts limits on what can be traded in markets.

For instance, it limits how much you can pay people to participate in medical trials or surrogate motherhood or human egg donation and so forth. There's limits on the incentives that you can provide for these kind of transactions. But is it true that incentives lead to worse decision making? We have all these laws that are based on this hunch.

Laws against, for instance, compensating kidney donors or even offering compensation for breast milk? It's something that is empirically testable, but hasn't been empirically tested. So that's the main question that I want to answer it.

He used college students, of course, as his research subjects. The way the experiment works is people made decisions in five rounds, and each round was associated with one species of insect.

House crickets, field crickets, and maybe the most disgusting ones are mole crickets. They are really nasty. In the beginning, I brought buckets and tissues because I was afraid that somebody might throw up. It turns out that didn't happen.

In one experiment, for instance, there's two groups of people. If you're in the first group, you'll learn that you're going to be given $3 if you decide to eat five mealworms. If you're in the second group, you'll learn that you're going to be given $30 if you agree to eat five mealworms.

Now, after you learn how much money you're given, but before you make a decision, you can choose between two videos to watch to inform yourself about what eating these things is going to be like. One video is called Why You May Want to Eat Insects. The other video is called Why You May Not Want to Eat Insects.

So these are really large scorpions. They're like as big as your hand. And it takes about $200 to $300 to make college students eat those or to make some college students eat those. In the interest of scientific equity, Ambul ate one of these scorpions himself. Take a plastic spoon, put a small shrimp on it, season it with some motor oil, and then eat everything, including the spoon.

I brought buckets and tissues. I was afraid that somebody might throw up. We look into what psychologists call the mere exposure effect.

That's about what eating a scorpion is like. What was Ambul trying to learn with this kind of experiment? I wanted to know if I offer incentives to somebody, what do I do with their quality of decision making?

What I'm interested in is whether if I pay people a larger amount of money, are they going to be more interested in watching the positive video than the negative video? And it turns out the answer to that question is yes.

So what did this tell Ambulance? This result looks like incentives are causing bad decisions. But if you're an economist, as Ambul is, these are, in fact, good decisions. How so? If I offer you very little for doing something you might not like, well, what you want to make sure is that you don't say yes by mistake. You're okay with saying no because there's not much to gain.

Now, if I offer you a lot of money, saying no by mistake all of a sudden is quite expensive. And so you become more interested in learning about the upsides rather than the downsides of the transaction.

In psychology, there's this phenomenon called the mirror exposure effect. And what it says is just as you are exposed to something over longer and longer time periods, you start liking it. And Ambul had noticed as he ran his insect experiments that the mirror exposure effect was working on him. So I was sitting there for a large number of hours putting insects into little plastic containers.

I started snacking voluntarily on the house crickets.

Have you heard about the insect cheeses? That, again, is the economist Sandro Ambul. There's two somewhat well-known insect cheeses. And I think Sicily, they eat what's called Casamarzu. Actually, it's Sardinia where they eat Casamarzu. Which is cheese that they let sit and then flies come and lay their eggs into the cheese.

And then you have the maggots crawling around and people eat that cheese with the maggots. In some parts of Germany, meanwhile? The Germans have mite cheese. So they have living mites in the cheese.

are often fed? It's chicken litter. So the feces of chicken are processed and are then fed to cattle. And then you eat the cattle that have been fed on chicken.

I mean, judging from my own reaction and the reaction of many people I have seen, I do think it's going to be very, very hard to convince even a sizable minority of the population to consume insects on a regular basis.

I mean, they're not as disgusting as you'd think, but they're just not very good. I think it's much more likely that everybody would become a vegetarian than it is that people would start eating insects on a broad scale. But I do need to say, I think sushi was at a similar point in the US a couple of decades ago.

And can you incentivize someone to look past their disgust? The way the experiment works is people made decisions in five rounds, and each round was associated with one species of insect. That's coming up after the break. I'm Stephen Dubner, and this is Freakonomics Radio.

In California, you cannot eat horse, whereas in many European countries, you have horse butcheries.