Val Curtis
Appearances
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
And you see stains of something indeterminate on the pounded yam. And then you see her feeding a piece of it to her child. And there's this real moment as moms watch this ad. They realize basically that the feces that she was dealing with in the toilet have actually got into the mouths of the kids. So it's a really powerful disgust message.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
This is one of the most effective handwashing campaigns ever. The rates of handwashing more than doubled, and they were still high several years after the campaign.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
You already do eat insects. You're allowed to have five insect legs in a Hershey bar. I've heard that. Yeah, look it up.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So insects are one of the types of things that we tend to find disgusting in as much as how closely they're connected with disease.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
In Uganda, we used to eat the flying ants that flew out once a year and we'd catch them and fry them. They don't really have much disease connection. And once you fried them and salted them and you're having them with a few beers, the wriggly, sticky, gooey nature of insects is rather forgotten. So basically, people will eat insects that don't have too strong a connection with disease.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
And the more you can distance them from a connection with disease, the more likely they are to eat them.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So people who are very high on the disgust scale often have comorbidities with other sorts of neuroticisms. So we found, for example, that people who are high on disgust are also high on sex disgust, and that makes it very hard to make a lasting bond in a relationship.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
I work on hygiene, sanitation and water at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
There are very few disgustologists in the world. Surprisingly, there are not hordes of people screaming to study the science of disgust. But there are a growing number. And what got you into the disgust racket? It was a long journey, but there was a eureka moment that got me traveling this route.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So I've been working on trying to understand behaviors that made people sick, mostly in developing countries. trying to understand why people were hygienic or weren't hygienic. For example, we'd done interviews in lots of different countries and I was asking people, so when would you wash your hands? And they would say, well, when they feel sticky and disgusting.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
And I go, well, what do you mean disgusting? And I kept coming up with these lists of things that people all around the world found disgusting. And it was a motley collection of things. I couldn't figure out what connected that all together. But then a colleague asked me to explain the cause of a strange parasitic disease. And I looked it up in a book about communicable diseases.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
And suddenly I realized all these things that people found disgusting were sitting in the index to this book. And I'm going, hang on, vomit, people find that disgusting. It makes you sick. Fallen hairs, people find that disgusting. Well, it's a cause of ringworm, food that's gone off that can cause typhoid, can cause diarrheal diseases.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
And the more I looked into it, the more I realized that there was a very obvious pattern here, that the things that everyone around the world seem to regard as disgusting. They were all things that might harbor parasites and pathogens and so might make us sick.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So being an evolutionarily minded sort of person, I saw that this was basically an adaptation, something we have in our brain to make us behave in ways that avoid us getting sick.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
It turns out there are different categories of things that might make us sick that we find disgusting. Six categories. There's disgust about hygiene. There's disgust related to certain types of animals and insects. There's disgust related to sex. Disgust related to people who are atypical in their appearance. deformed or not normal tends to unfortunately evoke a sense of disgust.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
If you meet somebody with a lesion, with an infected wound, people do tend to find that disgusting. Types of food, particularly food that smells funny or has gone off. So those are the six disgust categories.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So I've got a collection of the words from all over the world, and it's quite surprising how many use this onomatopoeic brr or ych or ug. It does seem to be almost a universal language. It's to do with the gorge rising. It's to do with this idea that your body is preparing itself for the ingestion of something that might make it sick.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Yes, and everybody would understand it wherever you were in the world.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So my definition of disgust is a system that evolved in the first place to help us avoid parasites and pathogens. But when you've got a system like that, that is so useful, and we use the same neurons to detect social disgust and moral disgust as we do to detect pathogen disgust, I think it's reasonable to call it the same thing.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Fecal material, for example, is inherently disgusting. Every person on the planet, with a few strange exceptions, finds fecal material something they want to stay away from.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So disgust is but one of a functional set of motives that make us do the things that were good for our ancestors. And they're there in all of us all the time and they drive a huge amount of what we do. And it's very poorly recognized that that is the complete and necessary set of motives you need to be a human being.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
Our motives compete for our attention at every moment. And the one which is the strongest is the one that's going to win. So if it's been a long time since you've had a, what am I allowed to say on the radio?
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So if it's a long time since you've had a shag, you're going to be much more likely to be attracted by the somewhat smelly, greasy hunk who's proposing himself to you than if you had a good one the day before. So it's not your level of disgust that's going up and down. It's the trade-off that you're making that's going up and down.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
If you haven't eaten for weeks the sandwich that has got mold on it, you might scrape the mold off, but you're going to eat it.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
This is one of the most effective handwashing campaigns ever.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
So globally, some of the biggest killers are infectious diseases.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
We've been working in programs all over the world trying to get people to wash their hands.
Freakonomics Radio
EXTRA: The Downside of Disgust (Update)
We use disgust to promote hand hygiene in Ghana. We did it not by talking about germs, not by talking about disease, but by making a very attractive little video where a rather well-dressed but typical Ghanaian woman came out of the toilet and you notice that she doesn't wash her hands. And then she prepares food for her kids. And you see her kneading this pounded yam.