Ryan Knutson
Appearances
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Really, so this time it might be the Democrats that push the government into a shutdown?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Well, Siobhan, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been great to talk to you.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about the judiciary. Okay, so we've been talking about the legislative branch so far, but let's turn to the judicial branch. There have been a number of rulings on the Trump administration's actions recently. Where do things stand and what kind of challenges are the courts posing for the Trump administration?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Are any of these rulings actually stopping the Trump administration's actions? Have you seen anything actually sort of reverse as a result of this?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
All right, so it sounds like the big fireworks are still to come on the judicial front. Let's turn back to the executive branch now. Trump had his first cabinet meeting this week. How would you describe how that went?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
All right, so Molly, let's talk about Congress first. Presidents have always had to work closely with Congress. Some have done it more effectively than others. But tell us about the Congress that Trump is working with.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
There was a moment in the cabinet meeting where Trump turned to everybody in the room and said, is anyone unhappy with Elon? Obviously, this was a rhetorical question. But do you have a sense that there are other cabinet members that are uneasy with what Elon Musk has been doing?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Big surprise. Right now in Washington, it feels like there is just one, and it is named Donald Trump.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Before we go, do you have any questions about what the Trump administration is doing? Email us and let us know. Please send a voice note to thejournal at wsj.com. That's thejournal at wsj.com. Trump 2.0 is part of The Journal, which is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
This episode was produced by Enrique Perez de la Rosa and edited by Catherine Whalen, with help from Lisa Wang. Molly Ball is The Wall Street Journal's senior political correspondent. I'm Ryan Knudson. This episode was engineered by Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed by Peter Leonard. Additional music in this episode by Peter Leonard, Billy Libby, and Bobby Lord.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Fact-checking by Kate Gallagher. Artwork by James Walton. Trump 2.0 will be back with a new episode next Friday morning. I will be off, though, so you'll be in good hands with Kate Linebaugh. See you then.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
So let's talk about arguably the most important person in Congress right now, Republican Speaker Mike Johnson. You published a profile of him recently and spent some time with him. After a year and a half in this role now, how would you say he's settled in?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
But he hasn't just been a placeholder, though. He's actually established himself pretty well in this role. So how would you say he did that?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
So Trump so far has been doing a lot of things by executive orders and not so much by working with Congress in the way that past presidents have. But there is one thing that he has said that he wants out of Congress, which is a big, beautiful bill. What does Trump want in that bill?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
So in this race, it seems like the House is ahead at this point because on Tuesday, Johnson narrowly got a budget resolution passed, which is sort of like a first draft of this big, beautiful bill. And to help us understand what was in that resolution, we have our colleague Siobhan Hughes here who covers Congress.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
And Congress isn't the only branch of government that's been busy. So has the judicial branch. There's also been some court rulings both for and against Trump's agenda.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
So, Siobhan, tell us about this big, beautiful first draft, this budget resolution. What was in it and what wasn't in it?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
So which of these approaches do you think is going to prevail? Well,
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
From the Journal, this is Trump 2.0. I'm Ryan Knudsen.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
It's Friday, February 28th. Coming up, what the other two branches of government are up to. And we had our first cabinet meeting, which was dominated by someone who is not actually in the cabinet. Stay with us.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
This budget resolution, though, I mean, as you were saying, it was the narrowest of margins, 217 to 215 in the House. How much of a victory is that? I mean, is Mike Johnson going to be able to hold this together to actually get this all the way across the finish line and turn it into law eventually? Or does this say that it actually might be more tenuous?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Hmm. I've also been hearing about these town halls where lawmakers have been going back to their districts and getting an earful from their constituents.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Do you think that this will put pressure on Republicans and possibly have an impact on Trump's agenda?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
One thing that some people in these town halls have been bringing up is this idea that the president is overstepping his authority and that Congress is sort of getting steamrolled by all these executive orders. So how does Mike Johnson, as the Speaker of the House, see these separation of powers questions that have been coming up in the Trump administration?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
Did you know that there are three branches of government?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Big, Beautiful Bill
One more question for you, Siobhan, before we let you go. There is this big bill that Trump wants, which is all about, you know, the budget. But there's also this other important thing that Congress has to do, which is fund the government, right?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
All right. Now, our favorite segment, we have a question from one of our listeners.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
He's going to win. All right, great. Thanks so much for your time, Jess. Really appreciate it. You bet. All right, last question for you, Molly, before I let you go. We talked last week about the dilemma Democrats are in over a potential government shutdown. Ultimately, Chuck Schumer and a handful of other Senate Democrats decided to join Republicans and vote to keep the government open.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
There has been a ton of blowback from other Democrats who... very, very strongly disagreed with that decision and felt like it was time to take off the gloves, fight hard, leave it all out on the court, to use another basketball metaphor. What's your take on what's happening here?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
And to help us understand what's going on, we're joined by our colleague Jess Braven, who covers the Supreme Court. Hey, Jess, thanks for being here.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
There are calls now for Chuck Schumer to lose his job over this. Do you think that might happen?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
So what's the next point of leverage that the Democrats have on the horizon, if any?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
All right, Molly, the buzzer has sounded. The game is over. We have won and we're moving on to the next round.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Wait, over like the Supreme Court chamber, like there's a basketball court up there?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Before we go, do you have any questions about what the Trump administration is doing? Email us and let us know. Please send a voice note to thejournalatwsj.com. That's thejournalatwsj.com. Trump 2.0 is part of The Journal, which is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
This episode was produced by Enrique Perez de la Rosa and edited by Catherine Whalen, with help from Tatiana Zamis. Molly Ball is The Wall Street Journal's senior political correspondent. I'm Ryan Knudson. This episode was engineered by Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed by Peter Leonard. Fact-checking by Kate Gallagher. Artwork by James Walton.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Trump 2.0 will be back with a new episode next Friday morning. Until then, good luck with your brackets and go Ducks.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
I want to see Donald Trump play basketball one-on-one against John Roberts, the Chief Justice, and then we'll see who gets to decide.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
All right, well, I could talk about basketball all day, but it's time to get serious. We started out by talking about this statement from Chief Justice John Roberts, where he effectively said, rebuked President Trump after Trump on Truth Social called a judge a left-wing lunatic and said that he should be impeached for ruling against the administration's latest deportation efforts.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Jess, can you just bring us up to speed here? What is the series of events that led us to the Chief Justice putting out this statement?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Right. Okay. The court. Yeah. The Supreme Court. The judicial branch. There is a lot going on there too right now.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
So after the judge issued this order, what happened next?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
So there's two things about this case that are significant. One is the fact that it ultimately led to the statement from the chief justice. But then also that the Trump administration seems like they may have ignored potentially a court order here. How significant is that second aspect of it?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Did you see this statement from the chief justice?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
So after that little spat, Trump went on Truth Social and heavily criticized the judge, as we've been talking about. He said nobody voted for him. He said it was crooked. He said it was a troublemaker. And he said the judge should be impeached.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
And that's when Roberts issued this statement that said, and I will just read it out loud, "...for more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision. The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose."
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Molly, do you have any sense of whether or not there's an appetite in Congress for impeaching Judge Boasberg or any other judges?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
I'll put this question to either of you, but do you think the Trump administration has a goal? Do you think there's something specific that the Trump administration wants to see? Like, only the Supreme Court can rule, or like, what's the thing that they want out of this question?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Is there a showdown coming between the executive branch and the judiciary?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
As a legal matter, there is a legitimate argument out there about national injunctions, right? That maybe a federal judge in Texas or San Francisco or wherever shouldn't be able to tell the federal government to stop doing something.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
From The Journal, this is Trump 2.0. I'm Ryan Knudsen.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
Okay, we are going to take a quick timeout. And when we come back, we'll talk about how the Supreme Court's immunity ruling for the president last year is impacting things today. And we'll also do a pulse check on the Democrats. The other thing that the Trump administration has been doing in the realm of the legal system is going after individual law firms.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
It's Friday, March 21st. Coming up, a breakdown of our March Madness brackets. Just kidding. We're going to talk about the Trump administration's friction with the courts. Go Ducks, though. All right, so we're going to talk about the highest court in the land, the Supreme Court, and the rest of the judicial system.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
There was this order against Perkins Coie, another one against Paul Weiss that effectively made it impossible for those firms to interact with the federal government. What is the justification, Jess, for these actions? And what impact is it having on the legal system?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: A Showdown With the Judiciary
These orders got blocked by a judge, at least for now, but is it having a chilling effect on the legal profession or other law firms?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
All right, Molly, before I let you go, I've got one more question. On Wednesday, Trump posted on his media platform, Truth Social, long live the king, referring to himself. This was alongside an announcement that he's going to revoke a Biden era approval of congestion pricing in New York City.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
And then the White House posted an image of Trump wearing a crown that said the same thing, long live the king. Do you think that Trump is just trolling? Or is this a reflection of how he actually sees himself?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
And then there's also this post that he made on social media where he said, he who saves his country does not violate any law, which seems to be sort of part of the same theme.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
We also seem to be making this argument that like that some of these laws that he is accused of flouting, specifically I'm thinking of shutting down government agencies without congressional approval, are that the laws themselves are anti-American or they're part of the problem. And so he is the solution coming in and sort of getting rid of them or saying like these shouldn't apply to me.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
You know, you just spun the globe, put your finger on it. It just so happened to be the place where all the news is right now. Because this week, diplomats from the U.S. and Russia met to negotiate on the future of the war in Ukraine, which was something that the Biden administration was not willing to do without Ukraine at the table.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
So to help us understand this shift in what's been going on with Ukraine, we brought in our colleague Alex Ward, who covers national security. Hi, Alex. Hey, how are you?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Well, thanks so much for your time, Molly. Really appreciate it.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Before we go, do you have any questions about what the Trump administration is doing? Email us and let us know. Please send a voice note to thejournalatwsj.com. That's thejournalatwsj.com. Trump 2.0 is part of The Journal, which is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
This episode was produced by Enrique Perez de la Rosa and edited by Katherine Whalen, with help from Pierce Singey. Molly Ball is The Wall Street Journal's senior political correspondent. I'm Ryan Knudson. This episode was engineered by Griffin Tanner. Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed by Peter Leonard. Additional music in this episode by Katherine Anderson and Emma Munger.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Fact-checking by Kate Gallagher. Artwork by James Walton. Trump 2.0 will be back with a new episode next Friday morning. See you then.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
So Alex, how would you describe how the U.S. government's position is changing on Russia and Ukraine under the Trump administration?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
So regardless of whether Ukraine wants these negotiations or not, these negotiations are now taking place between the U.S. and the Russians. There was a meeting this week in Saudi Arabia. As these negotiations get underway, what's the Trump administration's position compared to the Biden administration's?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
There is another big shift, though, which is in the way Trump is talking about this conflict, and specifically the way he's talking about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. After Trump's phone call with Putin, Trump said that Zelensky was a dictator, he said there should be new elections in Ukraine, and he accused Ukraine of starting the war. What do you make of that?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
But the Trump administration is willing to do without Ukraine at the table, which marks a pretty big shift in how the U.S. deals with Russia.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
It seems like President Trump is pushing for the war to end, but he's doing a lot of the pushing against Ukraine. And he wants the war to end, even if that means giving in to Russia on some of its demands.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Molly, could this strategy cost Trump politically in any way if the Trump administration resolves this conflict by giving in to some or many of Russia's demands?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Let's talk about how Europe is responding to all this. Alex, last week you attended the Munich Security Conference in Germany, which is this major annual convention of European security experts. And Vice President J.D. Vance gave this big speech that seemed to reframe America's relationship with Europe.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Should anyone be surprised about this based on the way Trump talked about Ukraine and the rest of the world during the campaign?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Where does Europe go from here? What options does it have?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
A lot to talk about today, as always. From The Journal, this is Trump 2.0. I'm Ryan Knudson.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
So, Alex, how would you describe what the new world order is then under Trump and Trump's worldview?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
— Molly, how long do you think this shift will last? Or will it just change again if a Democrat wins the White House in 2028?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
It's Friday, February 21st. Coming up, President Trump wants to end the war in Ukraine. So how is he going to do it? And what will that mean for the rest of Europe? All right, so we spent the last few weeks talking mostly about President Trump's efforts to cut the federal government. We've been talking about Elon Musk and Doge and USAID. But now the focus has really shifted overseas to Ukraine.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk some more with Alex about Russia and the deeper meaning behind Trump's long live the king post. So stick around. All right, Molly, Alex, as you know, we love listener questions on this show. And we've got one from William Green in Brooklyn that happens to be about Russia.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
Do this meaning crack down on immigration, stop policing, speech online, as Vance was alluding to in Munich.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: Shaking Up Europe
All right, Alex, thanks so much for your time. Yeah, thanks for having me. Sorry I talked so much.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Well, so if his arrest and deportation is legally questionable, why do it? What is the message that the Trump administration is trying to send?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
This week, Trump officials also moved to cut about half of the staff of the Department of Education, about 1,500 employees. And Trump is expected to sign an executive order soon that fully dismantles the agency. Why? What is the argument for getting rid of this agency?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
But the Trump administration isn't saying that they're going to get rid of that stuff, right? They just want to break those sort of narrower and more essential functions into different pieces and put them under different agencies.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
And so far, is this the economy that voters were expecting?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
If Republicans have been talking about this for so long, why hasn't it ever been done before?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
All right. Last question for you, Molly, before we say goodbye. We talked about this in our last few episodes, the showdown over a government shutdown. Democrats have been trying to use the threat of a shutdown to win some concessions out of Republicans. But yesterday they threw in the towel and said they would support a Republican bill to keep the government open.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
What had Democrats been hoping to get out of this? And what does it say that they've decided not to let the government shut down?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
What does that say about the calculation the Democrats made?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
All right, Molly. Well, thanks so much, as always, for your time.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
As always, before we go, do you have any questions about what the Trump administration is doing? Please send us a voice recording to thejournalatwsj.com. That's thejournalatwsj.com. Trump 2.0 is part of The Journal, which is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. This episode was produced by Alan Rodriguez-Espinosa and edited by Catherine Whalen.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
From the journal This Is Trump 2.0, I'm Ryan Knudsen.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Molly Ball is The Wall Street Journal's senior political correspondent. I'm Ryan Knudsen. This episode was engineered by Griffin Tanner. Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed by Peter Leonard. Additional music in this episode by Bobby Lord and Emma Munger. Fact-checking by Kate Gallagher. Artwork by James Walton. Trump 2.0 will be back with a new episode next Friday. See you then.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
It's Friday, March 14th. Coming up, Trump was supposed to be great for the economy. So why is the economy looking so scared? Plus, a Columbia student gets arrested and the Democrats dilemma over a government shutdown. Stay with us.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
How much has Trump accomplished in his first 50 days compared to how much most presidents accomplished in the first 100? Has he set a new land speed record?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
All right, so we are going to talk about the economy today. And to help us understand what is happening in the economy, we've brought in one of the best economic reporters out there, our colleague Nick Timros, who covers the Federal Reserve.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Well, if you look at the stock market and listen to what businesses are signaling right now, it would seem that a lot of people are afraid that it is not going to go well because the S&P 500 closed in correction territory yesterday, meaning it's down more than 10% from its recent high. Companies are projecting weaker sales, and you're hearing lots more talk about a recession.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
And even President Trump, in an interview on Sunday, wouldn't rule out that a recession was possible.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Can you lay out as best as you can what Trump is trying to achieve with all these policy experiments and what is he trying to transition America toward?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Aside from the uncertainty, is there something about the policies themselves that business leaders and economists are concerned about?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Are there different kinds of recessions? Like the worry during the Biden administration was that the Federal Reserve might cause a recession by raising interest rates too high for too long. But now the concern about a recession seems to be driven by the tariffs.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
All right, Molly, we have made it past the halfway point.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Well, I want to get your take on this. Given how important the economy is historically for presidents and all politicians, really, how unusual is it to see a president and Donald Trump acknowledging that, yeah, we might go through a period of pain. I can't rule out the possibility of a recession. What do you make of Trump kind of leaning into this uncertainty?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
The unique power of Trump to shape the narrative, though, might only go so far because there was a poll out this week from CNN that found that 56% of the public now disapproves of his handling of the economy, which is the first time this poll has ever found a majority of voters disapproving of Trump on the economy.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
I'm curious what you've been hearing from the business community, from business leaders, about how they're reacting to all this.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Well, all of this action is starting to create a reaction in the stock market and the broader economy, which is the main thing that I wanted to talk about today. But first of all, can you just remind us how important was the economy to Trump's presidential campaign and ultimate re-election?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
I want to bring in a question from one of our listeners, Charles Park. who, when we got this question, my first thought was, I know exactly who I want to ask this of, and it is Nick Timros, and you are here, so here we go.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Are they right? So what do you think of this, Nick? Can cutting government spending help ease inflation?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
All right. Before we let you go, Nick, one last question. Let's just cut to the chase. Is there going to be a recession? Yes or no?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
All right. Well, Nick, thank you so much for your time.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
Okay, we're going to take a short break. Don't go anywhere. Something else that's making headlines this week, Molly, is the arrest of a Columbia student, Mahmoud Khalil. Khalil was one of the students that was leading the pro-Palestine protests on Columbia's campus last year, and he often spoke with the media about ending the war in Gaza. The students are here.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Uncertainty Economy
They are holding their grounds until they get what they want, which is divestment from the Israeli occupation. So Khalil is a legal resident. He has a green card. So first, I'm just curious to know, what is the legal argument that the Trump administration is making for why he can be deported?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
This week, Donald Trump signed an executive order that put a pause on enforcing the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which is a law that prohibits U.S. companies from bribing foreign officials to gain or retain business. What's the Trump administration's rationale for doing this?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
How have people in Washington reacted to this change?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Trump also issued a pardon for former governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, who'd been convicted of corruption charges about 15 years ago. And then Trump's Justice Department also pushed to drop corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams, who'd been fighting those charges. How do you see these two actions fitting into Trump's vision for the justice system?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
I should point out that the Justice Department said that it's, quote, "...not offering to exchange dismissal of a criminal case for Adams' assistance on immigration enforcement." At the same time, we have seen the Trump administration redeploy resources to focus on immigration enforcement first and foremost across the country.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
I'm good. So today I want to talk about Doge. Last year when Elon Musk started talking about the Department of Government Efficiency or Doge, I wasn't sure how big of a deal it would actually be because it almost seemed like it was a joke at first. I mean, you know, it's named after a dog meme.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
All right, so finally, we've got a question from a listener from Noah in my hometown of Portland, Oregon. He wants to know what you, Molly, think about Trump's comments about taking over new territories, like making Canada the 51st state, renaming the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, buying Greenland and taking over Gaza.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
And Google Maps, if you live in the U.S., it now says Gulf of America.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Also because to say Mexico has not gone along with this change, they're still calling it. So it's not sort of an internationally recognized name at this point.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
All right, Molly, well, thank you so much for your time.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Before we go, do you have any questions about what the Trump administration is doing? Email us and let us know. Please send a voice note to thejournalatwsj.com. That's thejournalatwsj.com. Trump 2.0 is part of The Journal, which is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
This episode was produced by Enrique Perez de la Rosa and edited by Catherine Whalen, with help from Tatiana Zamise. Molly Ball is The Wall Street Journal's senior political correspondent. I'm Ryan Knudson. This episode was engineered by Nathan Singapak. Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed by Peter Leonard. Additional music in this episode by Peter Leonard, Nathan Singapak, and So Wiley.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Fact-checking by Kate Gallagher. Artwork by James Walton. Trump 2.0 will be back with a new episode next Friday morning. See you then.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
All right, I want to start with this appearance Elon Musk made in the Oval Office alongside President Trump on Tuesday. Or I should say Elon Musk and his four-year-old son, X. This is X, and he's a great guy, high IQ.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Musk did most of the talking, and this was really the first time he had taken any questions from reporters about the work he's doing with Doge.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
And his overall message seemed to be that he was finding all these instances of corruption and government waste and that Doge was getting rid of the bureaucracy and restoring democracy.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
I tell you, gravitas can be difficult sometimes. So I want to bring in our colleague Tim Higgins, who arguably knows Elon Musk better than anyone at The Wall Street Journal. Tim, you've covered Elon for how many years now? Ten?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
It's been many years. Several years. Multiple years. You've written a book about the early days of Tesla, and you're at a column right now for The Wall Street Journal that's mostly about Elon Musk. So thank you for joining us. Thank you. So Tim, I said earlier how surprised I was about how big of a deal Doge has become, but...
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Does what's happening right now and the way Elon Musk is going about it surprise you, given what you know about him?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
But less than a month into Trump's presidency, Doge and Elon Musk have actually been one of the most significant forces in the Trump administration.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
And the way he's known to run things, as he would put it, is pretty hardcore. He's known for thinking big, but also making drastic cuts and being disruptive and also being pretty tough on his employees.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Is that going to be the new name for the United States of America? Like UXA or something?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
This is not a company. I mean, the U.S. government, of course, is not a company that he owns. I mean, he's a, what is this technical status, a quasi-government employee at this point? Special government employee, I think is the term. Special government employee.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
But like, how will this, the Silicon Valley strategy of just sort of moving fast and breaking things, is that going to translate to government in the same way that it does when he's the sole owner of a company that he, you know, has taken private? Yeah.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Musk has been making a lot of claims about the kind of wasteful spending that Doge is finding. And they've been posting these screenshots on X of line items that they say look suspicious. But there doesn't actually seem to be that much detail about what the money is actually being used for. So what do you make of that and the way Musk is communicating what Doge is doing?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Musk is certainly creating the appearance of momentum, but how successful do you think his effort will ultimately be in shrinking the size of the federal government?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
Molly Ball, senior political correspondent. How are you?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
A mystery that we will try to solve. From the Journal, this is Trump 2.0. I'm Ryan Knutson.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
It is kind of the Elon Musk strategy that was deployed, especially at SpaceX and at Tesla. It's like, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, get rid of everything that you possibly can. And then if the rocket ship blows up, okay, add that one thing back. And it seems like he's applying that same kind of strategy at the federal government.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
One of the things that I found interesting during this press event with Musk and Trump in the Oval Office was that almost every time Trump chimed in, it was to criticize the judges that were issuing rulings that are slowing things down.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
It's Friday, February 14th. Coming up, Doge. It used to be just a meme, and now it's taking apart the federal government. We'll also talk about the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, the mayor of New York, Canada, Greenland, Gaza. Stay tuned.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
I want to talk about the relationship between Donald Trump and Elon Musk. The other day, Elon Musk posted on X, I love Donald Trump as much as a straight man can love another man. I mean, happy Valentine's Day right there. Yeah, I wonder if they exchanged cards. But Tim, what do you make of the relationship between them?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
I mean, Musk has not had to deal with someone as powerful as the president in any of his companies before.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: The Musk-Trump Bromance
All right, cool. Thanks so much, Tim. We really appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you. We are going to take a short break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about stopping corruption laws, the ones that prevent American companies from bribing foreign officials.