Rachel
Appearances
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Do you have another note card? Not anymore, no. See?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Respect her. I'm actually excited and I'm really happy that I was vulnerable and called the station. Thank you guys.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Hey, thanks for having me.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
It made me feel kind of old, too, though. I mean, I had been in a relationship since college. So, like, 2007, you know what I mean? So, like, I just completely knew for me. And when I got flooded with all these guys,
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
it was exciting it kind of it boosted my ego but it took me about like two and a half weeks to find someone that actually fit all of my criteria and that was jack yeah so you messaged him so he reached out to me okay so i thought that was vulnerable you know what i mean like that's
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Actually about five days. So we started kind of like Sunday, Monday talking. And then that weekend he was free and I was free.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
So we ended up going to dinner. Okay. It was really, really sweet. We met there. So I took an Uber.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
I'm a huge fan of Broad City and I felt like I was in Broad City.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Oh, well, he was just such a gentleman. Like, he was dreamy. He was such a good listener to you guys.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
It did. Because like I said, it was over a decade. And each thing that came up, he seemed to roll with it. And it didn't seem to bother him. I mean, because here's the thing. I was up front with him from the get go. And I told him straightforward that I'm not going to go home with him.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
This was, like, after the first appetizer. Oh. Because I wanted to kind of loosen things up, but I just didn't want to get too loose, if you know what I mean. Okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
He was taken aback, but he said he wasn't expecting anything. So maybe, like you said, it just kind of threw him off or whatever. And I mean, here's the thing. When you talked about bringing out my ex, for the first time, I didn't. I didn't cry, guys. You know, I was. On the date?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Well, I mean, I get teared up whenever I think of Dylan. You know, that's my ex.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
I think maybe that the drinks didn't help, you know?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
I don't think so, no. Like I said, he didn't seem like he was weirded out by it at all. That's good. No, it seems fine.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
No, he was a gentleman, so we did, like, the side hug thing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
I don't know that that's a good sign. It was my first date. Like, I haven't been in a real in-person date in over a decade. Like, give me a break.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Honestly, I'm hoping for the best. There was nothing but positive vibes. So I feel like something happened maybe at his job or family. I don't know. I hope everything's okay. But he's just perfect.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Oh, my God. We had such a great time. I mean, you're such a sweetheart. You just told me that you like, like, you think I'm attractive, you know? Like, I'm trying to be a great communicator. You know what I mean? Like, no gray areas. I thought you would appreciate to know exactly what I want, what I needed. You know, like I'm, I'm not, I'm not trying to play games.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
You said we didn't have any chemistry, but I guarantee that server would have told you different. And to be honest, it's your loss because after date number five, things really open up. Oh.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I have one stipulation. I will give him another chance, but we are not going to a sports game.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Yeah, this is Rachel.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I mean, I do like sports.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Oh, actually, yeah.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I see.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Well, I don't know what to say. We went out to a hockey game and it was okay. It was all right.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I wouldn't say I had so much fun, but it was okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I mean, it's fine. I took an Uber home. It's just the way that Brett... acted he just went a little overboard no not a little he went overboard with what yeah what do you mean Well, okay, so to give you an example, at one point, he was trying to get everyone to do the wave, and it wasn't working. People just weren't having it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
But it wasn't just that. So when nobody did the wave, he stood up, and he actually pointed at these three guys... that were two aisles down, and he told them to man up.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
It was the wave. It was like it was so uncomfortable. He was yelling.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I don't know, because at one point he actually ripped his jersey off and he was running up and down the aisle. And it was like it was so hard to watch. I was so embarrassed.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
i'm embarrassed you're saying he doesn't look good with his shirt off that's not no that's not what i said it was crazy like a crazy person that'd be a huge turn off for me i would not stay no no matter how good the seats is that why you left because you were embarrassed yeah that was a huge part of it before we went to the game it was fine i really liked his personality i liked him as a person
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
But then that side of him, that sports fanatic, it was too much for me. It was a turnoff.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I'm here. I just don't understand how he doesn't think that was overboard. That just tells me that this really is his normal behavior when he goes to a sports game.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
He painted his chest when he ripped his shirt off. He had their logo. Oh, no.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I didn't know what to say. What do I say? It's the first date. It's not like we've been together for months and this is how you suddenly acted. It was the first date. Like, you showed me your true colors. And the amount of times that you've yelled, you suck at the other team and the other fans, like you're borderline a bully.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
It's just a game. It could really hurt people's feelings.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Grant Hilbert - From Farming in a Game to Farming in Real Life
And why are you saying it?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Grant Hilbert - From Farming in a Game to Farming in Real Life
What did you do to it? No, no, no. You know what that's from? Is that from the meat?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Grant Hilbert - From Farming in a Game to Farming in Real Life
This beer's really old.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Grant Hilbert - From Farming in a Game to Farming in Real Life
Gross. Smell it. Smell the salsa. I'm not smelling it. Do it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Grant Hilbert - From Farming in a Game to Farming in Real Life
I don't know if I trust that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Welker Farms & Special Guest Randy from Fieldrows
You might get a little bit of that, too.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Welker Farms & Special Guest Randy from Fieldrows
Who else are you working with?
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Don't call you whores on the daily, I guess. Yeah. That'd be good. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I heard people that swear are smarter, like have a better, like a higher IQ. Really? If they swear more. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
That was on Sunday when TikTok went down. Somebody said something about, for the last 24 hours, when I said I read this somewhere, I legitimately meant it. Because most of the time when you see I read something somewhere, they saw it on TikTok. They didn't actually read it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
No, I don't think so. Majority were just nice people. But I didn't I mean, like none of mine really went viral or anything like that. So I don't I don't think that I had any like negative comments by any means. But I know other people experience that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
They're putting you in a different box and putting you down because they want to feel better about themselves.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Yeah, I don't really ever get on our Twitter. And then that week, I literally got on so many times. I was reading through all the comments. I was like, guys, should we be, like, concerned?
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
You can download Grammarly. I have that on my phone.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
We like to just, like, talk about it all day, every day.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
No, Matt and I like to do everything together. I feel like if he's going out to the farm for chores, I'll usually go with him just because even if I just sit in the truck because it's cold. He called me a fair weather farmer the other day. But yeah, we like to do everything together.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
He tries to sit me down and run me through numbers and stuff like that so I can understand it because I feel like my job is one to work at Farm for Profit and that's my full-time job. But yes, I want to understand what he's doing every day so that way when he has questions or if we're investing in something together,
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Yes, like buying a farm. So, like, I want to have that knowledge, too, just so I can understand what's happening with our finances as well, I guess. But the cattle side of stuff, like, I just enjoy going out and taking pictures of them and hanging out with them.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
That he does the chores and you do the genetics or you have certain spaces that you both... I would say he does a majority of that, but he will ask my opinion on stuff. I got you. He'll do a lot of research and then he'll sit me down and he wants to review the research.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Does he drive out there every week?
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
That would be a tough one.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Yeah, I didn't know that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I'm so excited.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
That sounds so weird.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I think it's both.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Maybe. Maybe.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I don't know. I just did.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I had all of their coats on, actually, as blankets.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
They think that I needed a new sweater because I wear my other one a little too often. So they bought me a new one, which I will say definitely looks like it was picked out by men.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
It's just like a sweater.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I do wear it every day of the week, usually. It sits on my desk chair. That sounds gross that I wear it every day, but it sits on my desk chair. And then when I'm cold at home, I just put it on. So since I work from home, every day, Corey or Tanner or Dave sees me, I'm always wearing the sweater.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
So they started counting how many times I was wearing the sweater and didn't tell me and then eventually told me. That they had sweater watch 2024. Yeah. It's actually a cute sweater though. It's like tan. I wore it when Matt and I got engaged.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
That's exciting. Yeah. I want to meet her.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
I was cold. Is it dirty? So is this the roast of Rachel? This is. This is what they do like every day. So they got me a new sweater, which is also still an ugly beige, but has some added colors to it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
You just, like, put the sock, and you twist your hair around it, and then you pull it up.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Yeah, and then you have floppy ears. Only I did find out last night, because if you're a side sleeper like me, it can kind of get in the way. You can also do them up on top of the top of your head.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
yes you do it the night before yeah because it needs to it needs to like set yeah it sits in there all night so i sleep with it in this is common knowledge guys that's why i said tonight i want to do like my bangs and one right here and then the other two right here i think can we get a picture of that maybe for social media probably curly hair with socks yeah and she puts her sock in her mouth and i hope that's clean just so everybody's aware
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
It's supposed to be super good for your skin. But I also, one of the dermatologists I follow said that it also just like locks everything into your skin. So make sure that your skin is super clean. I think it's kind of like slugging. If you know what slugging is.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
Tallow is rendered beef fat, so you can just like... melt it down, and then you clean it, basically, like, strain it. And then you can put, like, essential oils in it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
But you don't have to have your pilot's license. You just have to take that test. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
8th-Generation Farmer Zoe Kent on Running a Farm & Owning Her Story
All the fixings.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Revolutionizing Ag Equipment: Behind the Scenes with Strobel, Terraplex, and Brandt
Well, I know in the last episode you guys talked a little bit about expansion. So you guys have had a few different stores open up. What do you know about those?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Revolutionizing Ag Equipment: Behind the Scenes with Strobel, Terraplex, and Brandt
Yeah, I feel like we've heard Rodeo's story before of how he came about TerraPlex and we've now heard yours, John. Sue, how did you get involved with the company?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
I'm Rachel Fischbach. I farm in Washington County, Iowa, with my brother Vince. We farm corn and soybeans. I also do a lot of social media with our farming operations. So Iowa Farm Mama, I am on social media for TikTok and Facebook. And then I also have a people of ag media marketing company doing marketing items for area businesses if they need help.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Well, I think technology is growing with the times and keeping farming current with all of other industries that are out there, especially with social media and telling our stories via video.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Yeah. So, I mean, traveling, especially with you guys, you know, seeing the different ag shows out there, there's so much technology in ag that we sitting here in Iowa do not even realize is happening in California or Texas.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
And until you see it firsthand, whether it's in person or video, you don't even know some of those crops have those capabilities or the equipment going with them to do that type of work. And I almost wonder, it's not necessarily that we're behind the eight ball as far as technology goes in agriculture.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
I almost feel sometimes the general public puts farmers in a category that we should be stuck in the 1950s in that farming world where, you know, I like to use the analogy of all the other industries, whether it's medical or the equipment or the different things in our homes, our vehicles, have all evolved throughout the decades, but everyone wants farming to stay in the 1950s era.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
And we have so many different people like yourselves, the professionals out there doing the technology behind all of our GPSing, our equipment that we have running. So, yeah, I think just telling our story that, hey, it's OK for ag to evolve with all the other technology in the world also goes with kind of telling your story and showcasing it to clients.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Well, I would say on two levels. I've got my brother on camera. We talk about our farming on social media a lot. And then my brother and I have only been farming our family ground a couple of years, but it's with older equipment. So retrofitting older equipment with the GPS, the Delta Force, the seed farmers, the different things. So we're really trying to utilize technology.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
things that work for our operation that way.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Well, I really like the spraying drones. I think that is a very interesting way of getting to our crops without damaging them. And then not just in row crop farming, but the different technology being used in livestock barns, the robots, the counting, the different things. for farmers to be able to check on their iPhones to make sure everything is okay for their livestock and barns.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
That has come a long way in the past five, six, 10 years, so.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Yeah, just by utilizing some of the people on social media to talk about your product or showcase your product, they're going to show your product to a completely different audience in some situations. You know, we have people that follow us that have nothing to do with ag or some that watch you because of the similarities that you have in the ag business.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
I just want to ask you a question about the cover crop. So my brother and I have tried doing no-till, but our soils just work better because my brother is an engineer by trade and he loves doing some of these things. Have you noticed a success rate higher in certain soil types? Because we struggled in some of our things.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Well, and can I just expand on that? So, you know, Corey, the Farm Talk friends, the people that are talking about different products on social media, like we feel that we all trust each other. We're friends on a personal level, but... they're not afraid to give their personal opinion or experience with a product.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
Yeah, so I definitely agree with the whole perception thing. You know, everyone wants their everyday life, whether it be medical, you know, the products that they use in their home to be advancing with technology, but they have that persona of an American farmer. You know, that
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
just explaining our processes and how we raise corn, soybeans, pigs, cattle, whatever our products are here in Iowa or across the United States to not, to showcase the A, B, and Cs of why we're doing it and the technology behind it is not scary. So yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
I guess something that I would be concerned about or want to be on the forefront is touching on what Corey said, the technology that you're introducing making sure it works with multiple different brands of equipment. The one thing that is scary to me is I have children that want to farm and the price of equipment has gone up so drastically over the past five years.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
You know, people needing to go to used equipment, making sure that you can explain why your product works with used equipment if it's something that goes into tractors or combines. It doesn't have to be showcased with brand new items all the time because It's really hard for people to afford a lot of the brand new equipment out there today.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
This is my first time today I get to go first. Thanks, Tanner.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Tech-Driven Agriculture: Insights from a Panel of Farmers
I really think making a presence online, social media, is going to just become increasingly more because farmers are going to either continue to grow in size per acre or be smaller farmers. And telling your story just to help put a positive word out there about how farmers do things on their farm is going to be huge.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
Um, I worked at the Tyson's Corner store starting in June of 09 and I transferred to Bethesda in May of 2010.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
Yeah, no, everything seemed fine. I knew that some people had been missing stuff from the back, like out of their bags and everything, but that was all I knew about it was that a couple personal items had been missing. I know maybe a bottle of perfume was gone.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
knives sharp objects anything like that so there's the back room where all that is with the microwave and everything i don't think there's anything sharp back there there is i mean maybe silverware like a butter knife maybe one like bread knife or something like that in the back hallway there are exacto knives um where we cut for cutting the tape from the boxes but that's pretty much it.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
I know we have a toolbox, might have just normal tools like screwdrivers and stuff in it, but that's all I know of. Okay.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
There was no customers in the store. Jane was in the back room doing a restock was what we call it. It's where you print out everything that we sold in like the past hour or since the last one was done. And you bring the stuff out, the merchandise out to the floor. She was in the back doing that.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
A restock report. And Brittany was taping up a box. She was in the fitting room area.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon I Part 2
No, not at all. I said bye to both of them. They both seemed happy. They both seemed fine.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Where's Miss Rachel? Peek-a-boo. Peek-a-boo.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
I'm so excited to learn with you today.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
It's sad that people try to make it controversial when you speak out for children that are facing immeasurable suffering. Silence wasn't a choice for me.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
If you're not going to stand up for them, you might as well come out and say you don't see them like you see our kids.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
I can't imagine how excruciating it would be to not be able to feed her. If you're not going to stand up for these babies and these children, 15,000 killed, the largest cohort of child amputees in modern history. She's a parent.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
I was thinking about switching because honestly, I saw the advertisement that SoFi was doing about 0.5% interest rate for a checking account. And I found that interesting and also a higher interest rate compared to the bank that we have. We're with Wells Fargo and they just make it so convenient. Whereas SoFi, you know, they don't have actual banks anymore.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
So there's very little that I know about strictly online banking. As far as checking accounts go, I do have to admit I have the checking account and the savings account. I opened two accounts. Apparently, I just clicked on savings and I think they automatically enroll you or sign you up for both at the same time.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yeah, with SoFi. And I didn't put any money in it. So these interest rates come with stipulations. So if you read on and like read the fine print, you know, they say, oh, you can get up to $300. for a bonus, for this, for that, and up to, I don't know what they said, 3.8% interest on savings. But then when you read on, they tell you you have to put direct deposit in these accounts.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yeah, so I was just looking into switching because of that reason. And also, I just want to move away from those bigger banks. I have a checking and a savings account, joint savings account with my spouse. And she also has a checking account. And they give us pennies, like literal pennies in our savings account.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
So we just use that savings account kind of to like transfer money between us if we need to pay certain bills. or for me to transfer money into the Ally savings account that has a higher interest rate for our emergency fund. So I just want to get away from Wells Fargo.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yeah, I had one for about six years now for my oldest and just recently opened up a new one for our nine-month-old. I also have a separate account for myself because I'm a teacher. I have to save up money for myself over the summer. when they save up for you through the school or whatever, it's just an escrow and it doesn't earn interest.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
So I figured this is a better option where at least if I'm saving up thousands of dollars for myself over the summer, at least it's earning interest. And yes, I do have to pay taxes on that, but it's better than nothing. So yeah, we have several different accounts now with Ally.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yes.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
No, I mean, right now I just opened the SoFi accounts and they have zero dollars in them. I'm deciding on what to do with that. Do I really want to switch over, like lose my checking account with Wells Fargo and just keep the savings account? Because I looked into it a little bit and SoFi does have a lot of ATMs around, I was afraid of like, how do I take out actual cash?
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Because Ally doesn't offer that, I don't think, or it takes a while for you to get cash money out of those accounts, whereas SoFi sends you a card.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
what are some other cons that I might not be thinking of besides the, the whole, like the actual cash? I mean, there aren't, I don't think there are drive-thrus, um, ATMs. That's the con, um,
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
No, I have not.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yes, definitely.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
I was thinking about just the logistics of it, like automatic payments that I have through my checking in Wells Fargo, about the timing of all that. I think I would probably have to really sit down and make a list of all my payments and do a switch and all the accounts. I just have to make sure I switch everything so that I don't miss a payment because that's definitely not something that I want.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
My credit score is very good right now and I don't want to mess that up because I forgot something. So it's just, I think it's just a lot of steps if I were to completely change over my checking from Wells Fargo to SoFi. It could be a little difficult.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Okay, that was very insightful. Thank you.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
That card would be great to use to buy things with that checking account that I would have with the online bank, as well as taking money out of an ATM. So that's what I was thinking because SoFi has that and Ally, I don't believe, has the card.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Yes, I definitely have a lot to look into now. I've heard about credit unions, but I haven't really done more research on them. So that's something that I'm going to look into as well as I was very adamant about totally closing out my Wells Fargo checking account. But now I think I might have it there just in case.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
I just have to make sure that I know if there's any minimums or any requirements that are needed and that they are met. just in case I don't want to be charged for anything. But I think it is a good idea to keep my bank account open with them because they are a brick and mortar bank.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Hi, thank you.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
I feel good about lowering our debt on credit cards slowly but surely. And we did start some high yield savings accounts for our children. through Ally, which has a really high interest rate, but we're kind of stuck on saving up for our emergency fund. We can't quite get that right, but we keep hitting those snags of actual emergencies. For example, our roof, we had to put in a new roof for that.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
So I think we're struggling with our emergency fund, but I think slowly but surely we're knocking down our credit card debt.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
Right now, I have about three or four thousand and my spouse probably about the same.
NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Michele Norris Shares Kitchen Must-Haves and the Nerds Break Down Switching Banks for Better Rates
I pay off a little bit more than they're asking, sometimes double. We racked up the debt because we were trying to conceive. And unfortunately, you know, the health insurance only covers so much. So our debt has a lot to do with that. But we're done having kids now. So we are paying that down.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I know. I really want somebody to give me a brain scan while you guys are yelling at me like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Merry Christmas! What'd you guys ask Santa for?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What did you ask Santa for?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Nice. I want an espresso machine.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's so cool. Oh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Anthony, I didn't even know that they still made corded headphones. Where do they plug into?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, I guess that's your communication style.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And he never like, we never go anywhere after bedtime. It's not like it's a common thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
We do not have to love it. Try it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You have to look at me, though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Interesting. I have something weird where somebody will pop into my head and then something will happen to that person the day or a couple days after. It's happened to me several times.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, usually something bad.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
She didn't know yet. She hadn't found him yet.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
No, I was just checking on her.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. They live together. OK. Whoa. Back to the children with autism.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
They say that when you have like it like deaf people or blind people, when you are missing a sense.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I wonder if because they don't have that ability to speak, they're able to access that part of their mind easier. Back to your theory about. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Some more than others.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, it is weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
B-b-battery.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I'm scared of nuclear energy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That sounds not true.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, they do that now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
They're doing that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Bill Gates.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Who's that, Fauci?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Lame. My brother just told me this morning a horror story about nuclear energy and now I don't want, I'm not interested.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I don't want to talk about it. It's so scary. All right, I'll tell you. Stop.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
We're on a podcast. This guy, I don't know the names. He just diarrhea-ed this story. I mean, it scared me so bad. This guy was working on a nuclear power plant. And his manager's like, you've got to go pour this substance into the reactor. It's a very famous story, apparently. When he did that... He and three other guys. These atoms visibly collided in the room. Blew light immediately.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And even the guy standing outside was affected. Outside of the thing. The manager. that he used a term that i'm i don't know it's like a something like i'll come up with a word spaghetti you're only supposed to get one spaghetti's worth of nuclear exposure in 10 years it's 10 one is worth 10 years of nuclear spaghetti got it
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
this guy standing over the top got two like 200 years worth of spaghetti and like gonna die right but for some reason they really wanted to like try to keep this guy alive and like artificially so they gave him like they basically changed out all of his organs for like artificial organs and they had like a machine pumping blood manually they keep kept him alive for 83 days his skin was falling off his organs weren't working
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
At day like 50, he dies for four hours, but they resuscitate him to just prolong his life. It's so inhumane.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And then he died.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Horrified.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, you guys are so silly.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, that makes sense.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
When I got here, Andy was starting a fire in the parking lot.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I'm like, is he just being weird? Is anybody recording him at all?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Hold on, everybody.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, please. It's my turn. Let's just go to Anderson. Stop it! Okay. I have a would you rather. Would you rather eat 12 live spiders or spend six weeks in a federal prison?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I'm going to prison.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Six weeks. Still.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I think it's a mixed bag. There's banana spider.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Daddy long legs.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I was on the last episode, though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's 12 of them.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I'm going to get a lot of knitting done in prison.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
No, I know. I don't think I didn't notice that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Maybe I'll do some crocheting because it's just a hook.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You could use pencils.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Six weeks.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I suppose it's different.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I wish Martha Stewart was still there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Did you guys see that she, I know I already talked about this, but you can do ceramics in prison, but you're only allowed to make one thing a month or something. You're like limited to how many ceramics you can make. She convinced them to let her make an entire nativity scene. And she just auctioned off her prison nativity scene and it was immaculate. It was beautiful.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I don't know how much it went for, but I'm like, I have to have that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What did you think? You're anti-documentary. Why did you watch it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, it's going to come on, like, I won't anticipate.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh my gosh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Did you guys watch it? Not yet. When did you watch it? I watched it while you were in Nashville. It was epic because she's just living in this delusion.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
no she uh she yeah when she was like she's like my husband was cheating on me like and they're like didn't you have an affair and she's like i would have called it that wouldn't count that wouldn't count oh you mean the entanglement it was like that like it oh it was just high emotion that's it she just like oh you mean my detour no that was not an affair
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
In June or something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Andrew, are you going to prison? Are you?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Did she go to a real prison? It was fake.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
A real prison?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I know, but I didn't know if it was like a prison.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
She kept calling it like Arberg or something like that. Okay, but anyway. You know him? Do you think she knew? Wait, prison or prison prison?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Do you think she knew that she was insider trading?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Happy birthday, Lily. Thank you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, I agree.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Is that the big word for recon?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
All right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Renaissance?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I really believe them.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Exactly. Like PTO.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What are they doing? Or it's Santa.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Why are we surprised?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You recorded it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Strange.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Only 300 short years later. Where was that at? Germany.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Let's use our imaginations. What do you think?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Alien civilizations living under the Mariana Trench.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's way bigger than what you said too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That could be a rescue helicopter.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Are we talking about your most recent video?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Very good. I'm out here with my dog.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That happened at our house, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Front door, or your side door.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I am anticipating the song.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
How do they find them dogs?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Rach! Come out here, Rach! If you really want it to happen to you, you just have to have a denier with you. That's why. I'm not interested. I do not want to see a UFO. Ever. That's why we saw one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, everybody go to episode five, right? Wow. Episode five.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Wait, what do you mean?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's done?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, censor it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Of course they want to cover it up because we're finding out things that are happening all over the planet that we wouldn't find out from our major media sources. Like what's happening in Europe?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What's happening in Georgia? No one knows. The country.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
There's protests and fighting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
South Korea.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
South Korea.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
He was valedictorian.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I know. He looks like feminine with it, doesn't he? A little bit, yeah. Less emo, more spooky eye.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's not real.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Why would you ever do that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's not true.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, well, because they were using it. They were going to use it in court. They were saying he had this special, they called it, what was it? It was like a highly intelligent pre-planned, what do they call that? Premeditated. Premeditated, but it was like, they said it was operated with high intelligence and high, like he was trained in this way.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And he's like, so he's like, it was a waterproof bag, chill out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And he said they planted it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And he waited there. On an e-bike. They didn't have security?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And then he also works for the e-bike company. Did you see that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Who said that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Or one of the, like...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Delay, deny, depose, or something like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
In the same exact order.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. Obviously, they didn't just. The bullets were laying in that exact order.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. No criminal record. But they someone is speculating that like they're looking at motive and stuff. Right. And a lot of people are saying, like, I bet you he's like he had a child or something that was denied coverage.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I saw he had a spinal cord injury.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, he wasn't working alone. There's no way.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. You guys should have done the 12 Days of Christmas, but alien abduction.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I refuse.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It was a misnomer. I didn't know what you meant.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Welcome to the show. Did I say nature? I meant the butterfly.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
It was quite noticeable, but that wasn't, you know, brought up by anyone for some time because it's just a house. Like it's just a, just a shitty old house. You're not really trying to read in too much to it in a, You know, you sort of think maybe once you've hung some pictures on the wall, maybe that feeling will change.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
I remember my first impression of the place was just that it's really cold and kind of foreboding. And also, it was strangely hard to navigate, which is not something that you really... That's not an impression that a building leaves on you a lot of the time. We were partying and stuff, but I wasn't drunk all the time.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
I'm going to this place in the middle of the day and being like, hang on, didn't I just come into this room? It was hard to find your way around and to remember where you were and to remember how to get to, I don't know, the kitchen or whatever bedroom. It was just kind of a disorienting place. Yeah, and the place, the electrics didn't work.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
So, you know, once you're there at night time, again, this was before, like, advanced mobile phones like we have at the moment that have torches and flashlights and stuff like that. So I don't actually know how the place was lit. Probably a lot of candles, which would have been a bit of a liability, but that's what we were working with. Within a couple of weeks...
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
The flat was relatively established. People had moved in and word started getting around that people were having weird experiences there. And the theme that seemed to be attached to these experiences was that each occurrence involved basically a doppelganger or someone that looked like you or someone that you knew that clearly wasn't them. Quite a destabilizing feeling, occurrence.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
So the first I heard of it was when one of my friends who we'll call Shelly moved in. Her and her boyfriend, Justin, was helping her shift. And they were... Doing a long day of it, they were going, you know, back and forth from their car to Appleby Mansion with boxes and furniture, like back and forth, just over it, you know, moving day, no one really likes.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
And they were just, by the end of it, working independently, trying to get it done and, you know, just... focused on the task at hand. Slogging through, at one point Shelley was out in the car grabbing one of the boxes that she wanted to move in and she turned back to the front door of the house and she saw Justin was there with his back to her.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
So she called out for him for help to lift this heavy box because she was quite a small girl. And he didn't respond. He was just kind of like standing there for a beat or two. Then he walked through the door, through the front door, down the hallway, didn't respond to her. So she heaved the box somehow herself, feeling kind of annoyed with Justin for not helping.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
And when she got to the front door, she saw that he was at the opposite end of the hallway again with his back to her. And she called out again for help. But again, he didn't respond. He just turned left kind of robotically and headed into the lounge and So at this point she's tired and irritated and she called out like, what the fuck, Justin? And from the car behind her, Justin responded, what?
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
So Justin's in the car and she's just seen Justin in the hallway. There was no one else on the property. So no idea what's happening there. And I guess they just got on with the day, but she did mention it to me as something that was kind of like strange and She was like a pretty high stress person anyway.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
So she was freaked out by what had happened because she's not a person that leads with anything sort of spooky in life. But she was like, I knew what I saw. It was definitely Justin, but it wasn't Justin because he was in the car. So how is this possibly happening? And that kind of set the tone for her time at Appleby Mansion as well.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
Like she was definitely on edge and uncomfortable staying there after that, which was hard for her. And that's why this came up because she was needing like support from a friend about what she was going through. You know, these stories were coming from people that weren't, you know, they didn't lead with an interest in the supernatural.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
It was just people that I'd never heard talking about like ghosts or anything spooky, you
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
the vibe was not good there. You know, our energy was great. Like I really enjoyed the people that we were spending time with and like the stuff that we were doing, like people were playing cool music and stuff. And there was just something about the place that, that felt quite intense and quite off.
Savage Lovecast
Savage Lovecast Episode 953
Hello, you beautiful humans. My name is Rachel and I just listened to part one of the anxiety episode. Fascinating. My question is around the link between creativity and anxiety and how the creativity kind of pulls you out of it and calms it. I've seen a big correlation between most talented, creative humans also being
Savage Lovecast
Savage Lovecast Episode 953
extremely anxious or struggling with depression and anxiety and all of those things, and have even seen some artists or singers, when they find more peace in their life, their art really changes or they stop creating altogether, at least at the same level. So I guess my question is, why is that? Is it kind of a chicken or egg thing? And, you know, it seems like the
Savage Lovecast
Savage Lovecast Episode 953
struggle and anxiety fuels some of the most beautiful things that have ever been created. So we just love your thoughts. Thank you.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
But they stopped talking to you. Because you didn't buy their products.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
All right, we got Sam Martinez. And he says, if you're out to dinner at Buca di Beppo and everyone orders wine, but you're sober, you shouldn't have to split the bill, right?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, I agree.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Well, Bucca di Beppo is hard because it is family style. So it's not like everyone gets their own individual entree.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
On the backs of friends.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's not like, oh, I'm ordering my salad and water here. It is a shared. So that is a harder restaurant to divvy up checks.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Okay, because I would say the appetizer, I would say the alcohol is for sure the difference because it is expensive, right?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
They get us other places. But if there's like a spinach dip in the middle of the table.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I thought this was like a, oh, George, you're funny. You talk about money.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I don't know, right?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
That's great.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Like if you're the one like paying for the dinner? Yeah. I mean, I would just tell the waiter, hey, it's all just gonna be on one check. Oh. Yeah, we'll do that. And then I'll say this, on the end of like wanting to be generous, this just happened like last week, And it's like, yeah, we'll treat them. And then the people that fight it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, split it. Oh, split it. You know, like I get it, but I don't know.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
No, no, no. Yeah, yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Totally, totally, totally.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I think that's people.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah. And I think people, that's like their like... Their love language almost. Yeah, it's what they do. Yeah, I love it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yes. Oh my gosh. This company, you guys, I've been wearing the pajamas, been wearing the joggers, been sleeping in the sheets. We have the blankets, everything. And it is fantastic. The quality and the material, y'all, it is what you need for this fall, this winter, this spring. They're the best.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And we have a code in which you get to save some money. George, does that make you happy? Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Because we love it. Love it, love it, love it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Man, that big fur blanket though.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Something else. It's great. It's very, very nice. All right, next. Nicolette.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Nicolette Govan. Govan. Govan. She said, my friend always gives me extravagant birthday and Christmas gifts, but I can't afford to do the same for her.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's fine.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yes, that's right. And I'll be honest, to get birthday gifts from other friends as an adult is always shocking to me.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Do you?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Do you feel like that though? Like I went out to lunch with a bunch of my girlfriends for my birthday and like two of them brought me a gift and I'm like, I just don't expect, I do not expect.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's very fun, but I just, yeah, I just have zero expectation.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Loud and clear.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah. Love it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yep. Yep. All right, Jesse618 says, my work friend says I still owe $25 for a group gift that she put together for our boss, but I never agreed to that.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
That makes sense.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, group gifts for me, because I think about teacher gifts here at work, there's some of these that happen. And it's more convenience for me.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think it's with people that are outside of like a situation that I'm like, why would I get them a gift? Because like, I don't even talk to them or whatever, you know. There's usually something there. I don't know. The group gift.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
We'll make sure to Venmo and get some money after the shoot, George, for you.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, my gosh. Barbara B.?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I think if you're catering in food. Oh. I think a text could be like, hey, we're going to bring in this. What if I buy filet mignon steaks from the grocery store? Yeah, that feels cheaper to me for some reason. I don't know why.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
But if someone's like, I'm having a Christmas party, we all please come. And then they ask you to Venmo them.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally don't.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Always. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I'm with you.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, that's good, George. Glad we're on the same page.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Is this real? This is funny.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Alison Ramsey, my sister-in-law, she answered this. So when you're a Ramsey and someone goes to pay for something, it is like, oh, so sorry about my credit card.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Like, if we all throw our cards in, everyone's like, sorry, Rach, you know.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Don't be upset. Or they'll be like... Avert your eyes. We'll probably get a free flight out of the Southwest. You know, like, they'll always, like... Rub it in. Rub in the points in the airline miles.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
No, yeah. People know me, George.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah. No, but that, yeah, yeah. Why would you need it? Or people that we don't, I mean, our good friends don't do that anymore. But like, if we don't really know the couple and they're like, they think it's a joke.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Like, I remember growing up, going out to dinner with mom and dad and the waiter. This happens a lot. Hope this isn't a credit card.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Keeping us accountable, public.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I think we had that too, yes.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
That's funny. That's really funny.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, that's funny.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Didn't have to be this way.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh my gosh. I love it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, mine is too.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
You know what? I don't even know. How do you know if it is?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
No, hold on, hold on.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
How do I know?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Lock, lock, lock, lock, lock, lock, lock. I am zipped up, y'all. This is great.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And it's like $400 or something, and you're like, what happened?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh my gosh.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I'd say Guest Room.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Charging to stay someone. I mean, the hospitality, I'm reading a John Mark Comer book right now. And like part of it's about hospitality. And that just goes in the face of like, just be a good person and like open your hands and your life to people. And like, that's terrible. I'm going to say that.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, man.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh my God, no way. Are you guys, what part are you staying?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
So great.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
This is easy, Patrice. You just threw me a softball. Oh, I don't work on vacation. I'm so sorry. Oh, no, no, girl.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Okay. Okay. Yes.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's so not a big deal.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
100%.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yep.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Totally.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And you failed. Wow. You threw out the beach aspect. That was hard. The vacation went quick.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
So, like, I feel like vacation, there's a lot of ways to get out of it. But if it's like, hey, do you mind coming to— I think it would be harder to say, I'm going to charge you for it, than to say, oh, my gosh, the kid's schedule's crazy. I don't have time. Like, right? The excuse is more on the time and effort standpoint versus like— I need to be paid for this. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
All right, so listen, some expenses are uncontrollable, right? They're going to happen, which is why you want to create margin with your money because things are going to come up that you may be like, oh, I need to chip in on the gift that's coming or whatever it may be that you don't realize. And so having a budget is so key. So if you have not done a budget, you guys, every dollar,
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
is the best tool to use. So you can actually do a free budget. We'll leave a link in the description, but make sure to do that because it gives you peace of mind when things do come up that you're like, oh yeah, I do actually need to Venmo someone or pay for this thing. you have the margin to do it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, I'd also say communicate, right? The road trip stuff on here, dinners out. Like if there's a thing, you know, and if you're on a tight budget, you're like, nope, I'm not going to be paying for everyone's fillets, right? I'm not going to split a fillet with everyone. then say it out loud and be okay with that.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, that's right too.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It was so wonderful. All right, you guys, it's almost the end of the episode and we close out every episode with Guilty as Charged. And this is where our producer, Kelly, gives us a new Guilty as Charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take a sip.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, but like, it's funny that you would do that because you would just do that because it's funny, not because you were serious, though.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, you're looking at what they're doing. Oh, I did a deep stalk on someone I didn't even know. Are you ready for this? So we were going on this trip. This was like a few years ago to this new place. And you can go on Instagram where people tag photos. Of the place. You know what I mean? Like if they're somewhere and they like take a picture and they tag the- Like a resort.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah. Because I look at those more when we travel versus like what the- Website shows. Yes. Because you get more of the real like, okay.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And one night I just couldn't sleep, y'all. And we were going to this place. I was like, and I looked it up on Instagram. I was like, oh. And I looked at the tags and there was this wedding. Like- Crazy. Over the top? Over the top wedding. And I was like, who are these people? Y'all?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
For about an hour and a half at like one in the morning, I found out every, and I Googled like the dentistry the dad owns. Like, I mean, I like knew everything about this family. I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I thought about it, though. I was like, oh, my gosh. And it scared me for myself of like, wow.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
What do people know about me? That they could like... weasel their way in, right?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
But yeah, I did some, that was my deepest stalking. And I went like in-laws, I mean, I knew everything about this family. Wow. Call me crazy.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Figuring out who those people were.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
If you're a good stalker online, though, there's some people in my life that if I was like, hey, will you find this person? And they know how to do it. They're like the— It's a good skill to have.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Investigator, yep. Wow. All right. It's happened before. I know, y'all. But I don't know why I remember that one, but I do. And I was like, and if I see them? What if you befriend her? Well, no, I couldn't.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Just to make the poster for it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Nope, nope. Just family from South Carolina.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh my gosh. Were you expecting people to donate?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
No, it was so good.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's like really easy.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I love it. Well, you guys, it's closing time. So make sure to leave us a review if you enjoyed this episode. And if you want to hear more crazy financial faux pas, make sure to check out our conversation we had with actually my mom, Sharon Ramsey.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's a good one. And make sure to follow, subscribe, so you don't miss an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Did they know this was an option?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
You came to the party. Yeah, Whitney already sent you an invite. And if you happen to want to donate here after you bought a gift, here's this too.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, this could be good. Okay, before we dive in, do you have any just social pet peeves that come to mind?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I think under, like, for sure under 15 in my book.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, it's not political. So don't worry, you guys. Don't get scared off. But it is. And it has to do with George. That's all I'll say.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And then you could go a little higher, too, if you wanted. But, like, yeah. Like, got you covered. Don't worry. I'll grab the coffee or whatever, you know.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
That's the thing. 15 to 20% is when someone like waits on you for an hour and pours drinks and brings you food and you add more stuff.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Okay, how about this one? Electric car friend to electric car friend. This may be snobby. We went and stayed at a place and it was like this like resort kind of, you know, place and it was nice. And every hotel that we've stayed in, we'll take the Tesla, like, We went to Memphis for weddings. We took the Tesla. Like, we'll take the Tesla.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like within four hours. And almost every hotel or place we've been, they'll like, they have charging stations in the parking lot. This one was a pay thing.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
You had to pay for it.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I know, and I just thought, really? Like, you're trying to make money?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, oh, man, hotel. You could have, like, I don't know. So I thought about that recently, too.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I mean, 600 miles. I mean, yeah.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, okay.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Wow, like a Matlock of today.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, you're very Mary-Kate right now and Ashley.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
If anything, it's like, thank you for taking my air fryer and buying it from me.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Same place. Yeah, that's cheap. That's cheap right there.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
That's funny, actually. The cocktail name fits really well with this episode.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, man.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Hey guys, I'm Rachel.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
McKinsley?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Oh, McKinsley. Calm down.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Okay, now my question would be.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Can I go devil's advocate on this one? Sure. What if Kayla said, oh, shoot, I forgot the gift. I'm so sorry. I'll drop it off later. Right?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And then, so if someone says that to me, and then I don't see it, I could see a day where you're like, oh, hey, I just want to make sure like.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, that it didn't like get like blown away if you left it at the front door or like did you, I don't know.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Could there be that? Could there be that? You know what I will do? I will follow up on gifts nowadays, which is so great. Thank you, technology, that like you can ship gifts to people directly. Yep. So like for weddings or baby showers, and I do that a lot now. And if I don't hear from them, it's not that I need to thank you, but I do follow up like a week later and I'm like, hey, did it come?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Like I wanna make sure you got it because I paid for it, making sure you actually got the gift. So I will do a follow-up text.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I, written cards, I don't like get one and be like, oh, thank God they wrote me a card. Like, I'm like, oh, that's nice. I'm very neutral to them. That was Winston and I's first fight. Did you know this? We were married for eight days or whatever we were. And it was January, duck hunting season or whatever it was. I know it well. And because I probably had a little Sharon. Love you, Sharon.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Had a little Sharon in the back of my head. I'm like, I have to write all these thank you cards for our wedding. And we kind of had a big wedding. A lot of people.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And I was like, I didn't know you, George, 15 years ago. And I remember being like, I'm going to have to get these thank you cards out. And I'm like, gosh, gosh, gosh. And like, I was very overwhelmed. And I remember being like, Winston, will you help me? And he was like, oh, Carson invited me to go duck hunting this weekend.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Okay, so this all started when... I heard about something that went on at Mia, who is George's daughter. Why do you say it accusingly? George's daughter's birthday. But you said that you did something at this party. I'll let you explain to the people.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And I was like, what? And I cried. Y'all, I cried. I was like, is this what marriage is? He's going to choose Carson over me? We're going to do everything. Oh, yeah, y'all. It was like a first, like, how do we... You know, and you look back now. The audacity. Dear God. I was like, Rachel, jeez. Why I felt like this made up expectation of a timeline. Number one. And number two, go hunt.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And they're like, yeah, it would be a different situation today.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I know, right?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
But two weeks in, man. It's like, I don't know.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Is this our life?
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Thank you.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
So yeah, so thank you cards and I'm terrible at them. I'll say that. And my kids. I make the list at the birthday parties of who brought what gift and do we send out thank you cards off that list.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Me too.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, George.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Maybe a wedding. Do you feel like a wedding and a shower maybe is a different level of... There's a formality with weddings that I feel like is there. Yeah, there's something there.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Well, that sounds like actually a great friend.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's great though. Delete Me, y'all, is a fabulous service where you go and you fill out your profile. So you go and you give them some information and then they scour the internet and find your home address, phone numbers, old addresses even, like they will- People you're related to. All around the internet and take your information off. And it is so great because let's be honest, today in 2024,
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Man, our information's everywhere on the internet.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yes. Not as much anymore.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
It's amazing. Check it out.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And I thought it was a joke. And I was like, oh, that's funny, George. Or you did it as a joke. And then I learned later on that afternoon that like, no, no, no. He did this like, it was being serious about it. And I was like, oh my God. My gosh, George Campbell, you are tacky.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
No.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, we don't need that. Okay, how about this? Katie Perez says, I've heard moms charging other moms after playdates because their kids ate some of the family snacks. This actually went viral on, I say Instagram, you may say TikTok.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
And yeah, and this mom was the one charging people. And she's like, can we just normalize like charging? Because like all the supplies and the snacks and all of this. And I was like, oh my gosh, what is this? This is crazy.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't use their water.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Don't do anything.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Can't use anything.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. If you're going out somewhere... And there's like an omission, a movie or something for sure.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
I don't chip in for pizzas. Okay. Yeah. And no one's chipped in for me. Like, I think that's a... Unspoken rule.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah, that is funny, though, because then, like, I'll take a bunch of girls to, like, Sonic or something after school. We've done that. And, like, the moms will Venmo me. And I didn't ask for it, but they will.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
You know, it's funny, though. I had Denise, my sister, over and her family. And we ordered a bunch of pizzas to our house and stuff. And Denise Venmoed me after.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
For the pizza. I know. And I was like, I mean, I think people are just more conscious of that stuff, I guess.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel
Settling the Debate on Your Financial Faux Pas (We’re Divided)
Okay, George, do you feel like MLMs have died out? Because I just don't hear about them as much anymore.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
No, no, no. And he did defend him there. No, he went overboard with the Caitlin Clark, Leary kind of comment, and he admitted later that he was very wrong.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
But he said not, though, Siakam, to his credit.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
McDavid versus Goliath. He's only 6'2", McDavid. People think he's like 6'6". Only. Only. Who thinks he's 6'6"? That's not extraordinarily tall. Fastest, though, at 6'2". He is fast.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Right, and yet he's never won a championship.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
So is basketball. There's five guys on the ice. There's five guys on the wood. If you're an extraordinary basketball player, you lead your team to a championship.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Yeah, he'd be taller on skates, wouldn't he? Yeah. That's how that works, I think.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
I urinated next to Clint Black, the country star. Whoa! How'd that go? He's very short. He was wearing his cowboy hat at the time, and I was still taller then.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Yeah, silly superstition. They blew a 3-0 lead. We were all panicking.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Okay, Connor McDavid is the fastest skater in this series.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
We've been hearing for 10 years now, not five years, not three years, for 10 years, we've been hearing how great Connor McDavid is. He's not a two-way player. And he is. The best two-way player in this series is named Alexander Barkov. Thank you. Okay. McDavid has to win a championship or he can't. You can't keep calling him Jesus and the chosen one and this and that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
It's ridiculous to give the Conn Smythe to a player from a losing team. It's just a mockery.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Hello. You got that right.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
We love that. By the way, Siakam, I thought, gave a very good answer, a very legitimate answer. I like an athlete who's willing to admit, man, we busted our ass. We played hard. They played a little harder. It's not a crime to admit that. So I was there. But how?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Oh, I want to see that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The Billy Hamilton of Hockey
Greg Doyle is very good at what he does. I support him entirely. Is it 1G or 2Gs? Entirely. 2Gs. We don't like that. We don't like that. We don't like the 2Gs.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Hi, Dr. John. How are you?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
So I'll just kind of dive right in. I'll give you a little bit of context first. So my husband and I have been married for going on six years. We have two kids, a two and four year old. And my question is, how do I handle and move forward after losing respect for my husband? Or am I being too prideful and wanting us to be self-sufficient as a couple?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Yeah. I mean, we only dated three months before we got engaged. So things kind of moved quickly. You know, within a year after we got married too, we had our first kids. So, and then it was right in the middle of 2020. So you add all that as well. So yeah, we're, you know, just right in the midst of it all.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
So they have kind of pulled back a lot. I think because just. Full transparency, I have been a lot more closed off towards them just because of the past six years, things that have happened. But basically, just the reason for my call is the financial aspects. They've bailed us out of several financial situations dating back to, like I said, five, six years ago.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Um, and I just felt like he and I should have at least talked about these situations, um, and then work through them together.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Mostly it was, um, I think it was more his dad just kind of jumping in and saying, Hey, we got this. Don't worry about it. Um, and he has a really hard time like backing his parents off to say the least, um,
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Not necessarily rent, but I do think, like, that's kind of the context. And when it's been brought up, they're like, well, we just wanted to help you, and we just love giving, you know, we want to give you a gift, and we don't want you to worry about it. So, like, the first big thing I'll kind of dive into is when our daughter was about six months old, It was like April 2021.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
So kind of getting through everything. We were going to move out of our apartment, found a rental home. And his parents just like jumped in. And it was never a conversation that was had with me. It was just like his dad and him. And they paid for like the entire move, the rental truck, the movers and everything. And I've moved a lot in my life. And I was excited for the move.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
And I was like, hey, great. Like now he and I can come together and figure out the logistics of everything. So I was like, I felt a little like let down that I wasn't even involved in that conversation.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Um, it was pretty much just an argument of how I should accept the gift. I should be grateful for it. Um, and yeah, that was kind of it. It was just, and then it, that was it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Well, that's kind of how I feel.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
No, they don't do that.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
So his parents do pay his cell phone bill and his car insurance still. Oh, good Lord. And I mean, there's I have more examples. So I don't really feel like they hold it over us necessarily forthcomingly. Like they're not saying like, hey, we pay for this. We want you to do this. There have been a couple of times where I don't know, his parents bought a high chair and like a walker for our baby.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
And they were like, well, you never even said thank you. And so why didn't you say thank you? Well, that's a whole other story, but I did say thank you, but I was in the midst of like postpartum depression and anxiety and I was anxious about everything. And they bought our child, like one of those walkers. And I had told his mom like, Oh, I don't want to use those. They scare me.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
And then they went out and bought one anyway. And then they were mad at me for not being grateful for it. So, um, it just, yeah. Like, so tell me, tell me about, tell me about for you growing up.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Yeah, so my dad's job, he worked for a company that, like, worked on resorts and theme parks and just, like, did outlandish, like, waterfalls and rock work and everything. So we moved... Like I said, up from, gosh, zero to about eight, 10. And then we were pretty consistent from 10, when I was 10 on. But yeah, we moved a lot just because my dad was the sole income provider for the home.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
My mom was a stay-at-home mom. I had three brothers. So there were times where money was very tight. But I saw my parents work together to overcome so many obstacles.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
So a little bit of both, I think. Like with my family, I was very much like, you know, with my brothers too, I was kind of the one that was always bossing them around, so to speak. I had one older and two younger, so I was kind of in that middle. So I had no problem within my family to be like that strong, like this is what I'm going to do. I want to do it my way.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
And my daughter is very much that way as well. So I can get a little bit of taste in my own medicine. I think like when I was away from my home, um, sorry, I'm getting emotional because there's something that affects me, but I just feel like I had so many critics. Um, I played sports growing up and I just had softball coachings that would, I feel like try to tear me down. Um, I wasn't very vocal.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
I was pretty quiet and shy. Um, but, And I just feel like I have so many people telling me, like, I guess I wasn't good enough. And then I didn't feel good enough. And it's funny because even his mom has told me, like, I'm a very strong person, but it's taken years to get to this point. And now I feel like since we have kids, I feel like I often have to be their voice.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
And be that strength that I know they're going to need someday.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Thank you.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Two and four.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
I mean, we are both just those new parents, again, middle of pandemic, not sure what to do. We have had multiple conversations, he and I, about the pictures we have, I guess, or more so the picture I had for our marriage, our family, our life. I've talked about how I feel like his parents have overstepped boundaries sometimes, but it's always, for lack of a better term, like my fault.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
There isn't a whole lot of like, well, let's talk about that. Why do you feel that way? It's usually an immediate, no, you're wrong. They just want to help. They love us. And, you know, it's gotten a lot better. Like I said, I still have...
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
I know there's been other things, but his parents will give gifts and things, and I just have learned to accept it, to be grateful for it, to thank them for it. But it's more of the bigger piece is some of the... Bigger, not bigger, but like financial situations, he's like allowing them to continue to cover and pay for.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Follow-Up Call: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
And it just makes me lose respect for him as, you know, quote unquote, the man of the house. I look at him at, you know, he's a husband, he's a father and he's willing to. pass off these, these financial duties, um, to his parents whenever they are, you know, they offer.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
No, this show's doing a whole lot better than the Titanic was doing.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
Our listeners are, our viewers are keeping this show moving right along because they're amazing.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
It's me. All right, this is from Rachel in New Hampshire. And she writes, I want to start out by saying that your show has changed my husband's and my relationship and the way that we're raising our children. We cannot thank you enough for everything that you have taught us. On to my question.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
I am the mother of two young girls who are two weeks and two years old.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
Yes. Since my first was born, I have been uncomfortable with the thought of men changing her diapers, aside from my husband, of course. Recently, my father asked why he had never been asked to babysit. When I told him the reason, he told me that I was wrong for feeling this way and sexist and that I needed to get over it. Oh, jeez. I... Hmm.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
Am I in the wrong for feeling this way or did my father take my feelings too personally?
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
No, I think I agree with all that. I can... And I can also understand from his perspective that would be hard to hear.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
That your daughter, because in this case it was her father, thinks that you would do something. So I can – how he handled it, no, I don't think was correct, telling her she's wrong and –
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
But that would be a horrible thing to hear that you think that I could ever, someone who probably changed her diapers.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
I didn't participate. And the fact that he wants to babysit his grandchildren. Yes. I can see where that would be heartbreaking.
The Dr. John Delony Show
I Caught My Wife Cheating With My Friend
Maybe. Definitely a voodoo doll or two.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
Kidical Mass is a global movement. It was set up to campaign for safer cycling infrastructure for families and kids and to promote cycling as a healthy hobby to have. When I decided to set up Kidical Mass Ellsworth and Redhill, there wasn't a Kidical Mass in Surrey. Earlswood as a space is very green and there's lots of cycling, but the cycling to school is a bit hit and miss.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
It's very difficult, yeah. It's no fault of anybody really, but it's about educating people that perhaps they could cycle if they wanted to. This is a safe space that they could have a go at cycling on the road with their kids. There's some key points in Earlswood specifically that could be...
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
really do with looking at there's a cycle path that sort of ends and then the cycle route national route 21 goes through Ellsworth down a residential road with no designated path historically and back in the day in the Victorian times there was actually a cycle path that went all the way across the ring that we call on Ellsworth Common. What are the numbers today?
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
The official count this morning was 282, but quite a few cyclists joined on the ride. So we're calling it 300.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
Absolutely. I think every time we do it, it just grows and grows. And the more visible we are, the more people talk about it.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
Absolutely. It can be a daunting prospect to try and cycle sometimes with your children on the road. So this is a safe space for them to be able to practice that. And the more people on the bikes, the better. We try to do two every year. So this is our first one of 2024. We will probably do one in sort of September, October. And we try to centre each ride around a local primary school.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
42: Earlswood’s mass cycle ride and Reigate’s Pub In the Park plans… and more
So then it encourages different people to attend. It also helps promote the idea of cycling to school.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Hi, guys. So I basically just lack boundaries and the ability to keep my boundaries and that's got my marriage to a place where my husband's a bit spoiled and i can't get him unspoiled so we i love the self-awareness and honesty yeah it's like i can't drive and my car is in a ditch all right so what uh what do you struggle with boundaries what kind of boundaries do you struggle with
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Um, I would say probably the most major thing is I am a huge people pleaser and I don't like to, I guess, annoy people or bother them. So instead of doing that, I kind of just take everything on myself.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
I would say it would partly be maybe like a lack of self-confidence mixed with bad previous abusive relationships.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
That's true. And I guess I couldn't necessarily pinpoint. I don't recall ever not being like this.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
No, my household, it was kind of, I guess, maybe easy for my parents. Like my mom handled me and my dad handled my brother. It's just us two. So I didn't really get any maybe discipline from my dad. So I just... What did you get from your dad? I guess that's maybe... Okay, so now I am thinking about it a little harder. Yeah.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
My parents have always kind of denied it, but I've always, and other family members and things like that, have always kind of felt like my brother was
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
maybe favored a little bit more at least that's always been my thoughts on it so i felt like he was getting things that i was being told i couldn't have um and things like that so i guess maybe that could be where it stemmed from is like why is he getting it and i'm not well but take a step deeper that's that's a way to intellectualize it but imagine yourself as a seven-year-old little girl when you're just basically a walking nervous system
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Yeah, and I don't think it's that he doesn't like me. I think it's maybe just easier for him. I know, I know.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Um, I, it's mostly just the chores around the house. I get, we don't actually have kids, but, um, we, so we both work full time. So I feel like chores should be split pretty evenly.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Um, you're correct. Beginning at the beginning of our relationship, I would say they were, um, he fell into a depression with his last job. And that I think is where the bulk of it came from is I was depressed. obviously there for him through that. We've gone through that, but during that time, I just ended up taking over everything, and it's never gotten back to the 50-50.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
That's a great question that I'm grappling with.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah. I don't know. I like therapists use the word brainwashing. I've like, just like, I've come to believe that. Yeah. I've somewhere in my subconscious that is like, if a man loves you, he does this and yeah, it's an outdated.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Hmm. Right. No, right. I can't even think of like a specific example, but I know, but you get the logic. I understand what you're saying. Yeah.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I want to get out of my own way. No, I very much want to get out of my own way. I see that I'm in my way.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Right. And I guess I think the thing that's in my way is how do I hold the desire for it, for marriage and that kind of commitment, while also understanding that that is not the thing that gives me ultimate security.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
It's been like a lot emotionally, like every weekend kind of getting into these like spirals together, just kind of emotionally exhausting. And we have been like really trying to work on that. And then this past weekend, it's all kind of come to a bit of a head where we just had like a little thing that kind of just energetically sent us into one of these spirals where
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
What about the logistical aspect of it? I don't know. I feel like there's this thread of combining finances or doing other big things like that. Someday buying a house with someone who you're not married to. I know people do that, of course. It's just like, for me, it's been scary and has extra uncertainty around it.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Like the, you know, legal aspects of like buying a house. And then if you split up, are you buying a house? Same protections. Yeah. Something like that.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Right. And I also don't want to... force him into a future, drag him into my version of the future. If he doesn't fully like, fuck yes, want it.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
that that is the wrong place to seek safety.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I just hope that he'll still choose me. We're kind of at this, we're at a, we're at a real fork in the road right now. Uh, his energy has shifted and I, I've been through breakups before. I can tell.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I hear you. Yeah. Something's different now and I'm not sure if he's going to keep choosing me.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
just felt very like walled off. And I shared with him that, um, I'm just like feeling really defeated and powerless and I don't really know what to do. Um, I feel like I'm putting in like everything I can for this relationship and he, and he agreed.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
yeah i've had that realization recently that i was mothering and pulled back on that and he saw a shift immediately and was like so happy about it and just really gave me a lot of affirmation that like that's how he wants me to show up and when i show up like that he feels so much better and like better about our future and yeah i mean he he didn't go ring shopping because he wanted
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah. Yeah. He went ring shopping to appease me because afraid of losing me.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
And this was just like the first time that he said that he, that we were just feeding, feeling really powerless and defeated, um, about like how to change our dynamic together because we love each other very much or like very, have been very committed.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I want to be the kind of person I believe that I, I mean, I believe that I am someone who's capable of growth. I want to be the person who has that mental flexibility to get out of that rigid mindset that like, this is just what you're supposed to do when you've been together this long and you love each other and you say you're committed, like that this is like the marker of success.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Like I don't want to have that rigid mindset. I want to be our love is bigger than that.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, I remember saying I was so much happier. Like, I didn't even expect how good it would be. Like, moving in together was a really great time.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I think problems started popping up around 18 months. And then like around two years, it started to be at a pace that was like, this doesn't feel good.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
That's so true. Yeah. The timelines has been like the biggest fucking issue. And I think that's why it's all coming to a head now, because like the timeline that we were going to get engaged, just like at this peak where it's so obviously not happening. And I'm just kind of having to like, let go of this thing that I thought had to be there in order to be happy.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
When we moved, when we were moving in, I said multiple times, this to me means that we're on the path to getting married.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
It's helpful to hear it from you. I get a lot of different opinions about this of like, it's okay to have that be the thing that you want.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
That's what our therapist says. It's just a symbol. You have to focus on having the real thing underneath it.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
That's a great question. Could I describe what it looks like a little bit?
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
No, it's the irony is that my parents are married and miserable and I don't know why I'm trying so hard to be stuck to someone.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Right. I'm making a concerted effort to choose to every day. I think I have some deep down fear that maybe I'm broken or something and can't do it, but I want.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, so we're just like get very sensitive to each other's words in certain moments. I've been realizing that I've just been very attached to this idea of like getting married and very much like wanting this particular outcome. I've said that from like the very beginning in early stages of dating that I wanted to get married initially. Like he always kind of like, Like, yeah, that's an option.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Right. yeah been making myself crazy and as opposed and as a result how how often do you have to apologize to him for how you speak to him I think on a or how passive-aggressive issues are you passive-aggressive yeah happens like weekly lately so probably somewhere in there is like a tone thing yeah that's a lot that's a lot It's a lot. Yeah. It's not sustainable. We're very aware of that.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
That's why I think I'm finally at this point of like, I'm desperate to change it. And that maybe is what is, that is the thing that's going to get me to change this mindset is like, I'm on the verge of losing him. And I don't want that. Like, I feel that he's the person I'm supposed to be with.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Well, I want, you know, deeply want to be with.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Physical touch, words of affirmation. I mean, quality time, too.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Work has been tough. And I, I definitely say that. I think what's also, I mean, we probably just even made it through this year because the swings of like, you know, there's these really shitty moments and then like something stabilizes during the week. And I'm like, I'm, I don't have so fucking crazy.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
And then like about a year in started to show some anxiety around that. And then there's been a lot of pressure built up around this idea that like we're going to get engaged this year and had been really driving towards that. And then like the more that that. has been built up when we have these like little things. Like this weekend, it was about like getting dish soap or something.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I mean, I think I can say I'm working on releasing the attachment to this as like the measure of our relationship and my, you know, my worth.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
How do I define full commitment and not feel that he's keeping me at arm's length? Like, but if he doesn't want to get, you know, if he doesn't want to get married.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
No, how do I define full commitment in a way that take marriage out of it so that I don't feel that I'm being kept at arm's length by, you know?
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Just like the energy shifts. I get very anxious. He gets like emotionally withdrawn and it just like feels like we can't connect.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, that was fair. That was a good reality check. And I hate that I have created that.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, like, like, like my tone. So he was like, I'm gonna go to CBS and get this thing. And I said, Oh, can you get dish soap on there too? And he said, text me if we need anything else. And I just like I was in a rush. And I was just like, I don't have like an inventory of what we need. And it was just kind of like that, like,
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I really hope we can... Stick around so I can do that with him.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, he's very, he's open to that kind of thing. Yeah. Let's hopefully we stay together and then we can do that.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
He texted me yesterday that like something about relationship is about rupture and repair. We're in a season of repair. Yeah. His energy has shifted, but that at least is heartening.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah. I've been saying, I've been doing some stuff to try and get my way and yeah, it is time to actually surrender to letting there be uncertainty and
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, it was checking off the next step in the relationship escalator.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I feel like I have to be perfect. Like those little unconscious moments, which I don't want to do. Like I spend a lot of time.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
In order for... like the relationship to move forward for him to feel like it's like, to get it.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah. Like I took that burden comment really personally. I'm like really struggled to like receive that. It was in the context of like, we were, so we did this like couples workshop months ago. And like, there's like this forgiveness conversation template and,
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
And so it was in the context of that where he was like, I need you to like acknowledge how hard this year has been for me and just like how emotionally exhausted it's been. It's felt like a burden at times. And then like, I really took that to heart.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
A good portion, but I think they feed into each other of like feeling exhausted at the end of the weekend, going into Monday, just like depleted to be in the context that he's made the burden comment. He did say like, I don't currently feel this way. I just need to like some acknowledgement of like how much like I've overextended myself.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
And like, you know, we've also been talking a lot about his boundaries of like not telling me that he wasn't really like able to give more.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I mean, I think if I had to guess, he feels like he's like, he's sacrificed kind of some of his own voice. Like I feel like he has been driving towards this engagement as a way to like appease my anxiety. And he's been telling me with his words that that's what he wanted and like things are okay. But I'm realizing in the last few days that like, his behaviors haven't necessarily matched up.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
And that's where my anxiety was coming from of like the inconsistencies in his behavior and his words. And so, you know, when we go ring shopping and then he like pulls back like that, like, why are we there if he's not fully on board? And then that would kind of send like me into some sort of, um, spiral, you know, anxiety, wanting like reassurance, um,
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
It's been weekly for a while. And so we're kind of at this point of like this happened over the weekend and we just started like taking some space right now. I'm going to sleep at a friend's house.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah. Just to get a little more space while we can, before we can come, I want to enter the next conversations we have like more grounded.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I feel like we've just been caught up in each other's energy, you know, like,
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah. So later that day, or I apologized multiple times and just said like, I'm like, I'm sorry. Like that was just, you know, I didn't mean to mean to do that. I'm really sorry.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
He just like kind of struggled to let it go. Later in the day, we went on a walk, not like us, barely talked. And on the way home, I just kind of, that's when I said, like, I feel really defeated and powerless right now of like how to change this. Like, I love you so much. I want to be with you.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
What I'm trying to figure out is what does it look like to have full commitment right now with each other? Because my therapist says that my relationship to the idea of marriage is messed up and that I've been looking for it as a place of safety when the only safety that we have is marriage. commitment to each other and our commitment that like we can grow.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I think I have been hyper-focused on that and I'm realizing.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Totally. So I think I'm deeply afraid that maybe he's hold, that his resistance or the discrepancy in his words and behaviors around marriage is like his deep down, like he's holding me at arm's length and isn't really committed the way he says.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
We saw her for the first time maybe like 18 months in and she kind of said something to this effect. And I was very excited. resistant to giving up the idea of wanting marriage as like a goal for us.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
We went ring shopping and then my boyfriend told me after that the relationship has been a burden.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
Yeah, right. It's the seeking safety in that instead of looking at what I have. It's the thinking that that will solve something in me.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I think he feels like he's giving so much and I'm still not happy because I want that one particular thing.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
I want to have the mental flexibility to see how else we could define full commitment. He has a lot of trauma. His parents have each been divorced three times. So there's a lot of fear there about marriage on his side. So I understand some of his fears. Also, part of it has nothing to do with me.
The Viall Files
E873 Ask Nick - My BF Thinks I’m A Burden
So there's been more that's happened since then. Okay. We are figuring out if we're going to stay together right now. Okay. So that was like a couple of weeks ago. To be fair, the relationship has been a burden on him. He's really overextended himself. With like work and just like giving a lot.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
Good. My name is Rachel. I'm 28. I'm wondering if the guy I'm talking to is a horrible communicator or if he's just not into me.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I'd say I don't really have that much experience dating. I'm a very lazy dater. So I don't know. I can't tell if he just is a bad texter or if he just is a bad texter with me.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
We have good conversations, but he will only respond every couple of days. We'll be having a conversation and then he just won't respond. And then three days later, he'll be like, oh, I'm so sorry. I've just been really busy. Okay.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
We met on Hinge. I think it was either December or November. And we've been out a couple of times. Well, not more than a couple of times. We see each other every, I'd say, two to three weeks.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
Is it just like... Yeah. We've been out to dinner.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
Yeah. So when we first, cause we met on Hinge, right? So you can kind of see what someone is looking for. And like, obviously we talked about that and he is 31. So he's, he's thinking about like starting a family, getting married, like he talks about it. And yeah, we talked about that a lot. Like on our first date, he was asking me questions like, what was your last relationship like?
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
And what would you want from a future partner? Yeah. So it was like a good deep conversation. So I thought it was like kind of going somewhere and yeah, I don't know.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
That was the first day. Yeah. And since then, since then, we just, I don't know. We just like to have fun together. I'm really comfortable with him. We talk about anything.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I'm like queen of circling back to my ex situations. So I don't know a lot of guys that I have talked to in the past will come around again and I'm like, I'm not really talking to anybody. So I just want to entertain it again. And then I don't really go out much. So I don't know how to meet people thus hinge, but
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I should mention, actually, that I have a child from a previous relationship. Oh, okay. That's one of the things I'm afraid of for a relationship is getting into a serious relationship with someone and getting married, having more kids, and then breaking up and having to do it all over again. Like that's like my worst fear with dating right now. So that was really close to that.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I was like in a serious relationship last year and I just like, we weren't connecting like our personality wise, but he was like perfect in every other way. And yeah, I don't know. Like I'm trying to find someone with all the qualities, but also like with me.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I want more siblings for her. And like, I want someone who wants a family. Well, obviously I want someone who wants a family, but yeah, I would like to have children with my next partner.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I only introduced my last boyfriend to my daughter, but we were dating for almost a year. And I don't really want to introduce anyone new to her until I'm like for sure know that they're going to stick around because like she still knows his name, like my ex. And it's like it makes me sad that she like is looking for him sometimes.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
So I don't really want to put her through that in case I like it doesn't work out with the next one.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
Like there's no bad answer. Yeah, I know. I just like, I'm trying to word it right.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I know. I just like, I'm very good at like compartmentalizing my feelings. So like, I, I know that if, if he tells me that he likes me, I'll be like, Oh yay, then let's date. But if he doesn't, I'll completely be okay.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I think I'm just kind of like nervous, like not nervous, but like, I feel like it's so hard to find another person that like, that I'll like all these qualities about. And I'm like, I feel like I'm running out of time again.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
It is. It's just a, yeah, I need to boost my own confidence.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
You're right. That it's not about him. It's about me and I have to set my own. like boundaries in terms of what I want and make sure I'm telling people what I want instead of just going with what they want and just letting things happen.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
I mean, if I don't like the way they look.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
No, not usually. I'm really bad at saying no, honestly.
The Viall Files
E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!
There's no alternative. I'm going to do it.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Good. My name's Rachel. I'm 26 and I'm wondering how I get my boyfriend to care about my feelings.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah, so for context, we dated in high school for six years and then we broke up for about six years. I joined the military and we reconnected over the summer when I was home on vacation. So we are long distance, but with his job, he can come spend like winter months with me. So he was here for three months over the winter.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And during that time, we kind of figured out that we have like vastly different sex drives, whereas he wants to have sex every day and I'd be fine with like two to three times a week. But around the time that we got together, I increased my dose of my antidepressant. And, um, with that, I've noticed that I've like, definitely like, I don't even think about sex. It's not even on my radar.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I know that that's, you know, a problem, um, for sure. So while he was here, we kind of realized that we, you know, this is going to be a told him, you know, this is something that I'm going to work on with my doctor, but it doesn't change overnight.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Um, and I just kind of noticed that during this time, he has been like kind of withdrawing from me, like being different, like not treating me as he used to. And so it was kind of like a point of tension the entire time he was here for the three months he left in January, the night before he left, we went out on a date and
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I asked him, I was like, oh, can you lean in and be sweet and soft towards me until you leave tomorrow? And he was like, are we really going to have this conversation again?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah, it had just been like a topic of conversation, you know, the entire time that he was here with, you know, me going to my doctors and trying to find like a different medication that'll work. And every time that, you know, we would have like a discussion of everything, it always came back to what you he would say to me, you want an emotional connection.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I want a sexual connection and I don't feel like I'm getting what I need. And so in turn, like, you know, understandably, like you're not getting what you need from me. And so it had kind of been like, you know, we talked about it a lot. And it was definitely something that we both knew needed to be worked on. But, you know, my medication, I can only do so much so fast.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And so he said that comment and I let it go because I wanted to have enjoy our last night together. And then a few hours later, we were on the way home and he's driving and I lean into him and I say, you know, like, oh, I just want you to be soft with me. You know, like I miss that side of you. And he kind of, you know, he got upset and he was like, you act like I beat you.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
You act like I mean to you. You act like I'm doing something intentionally to hurt you. And that's not what I'm doing.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And he, and that's, so when we get into like more, you know, more of it, he up until very recently, wouldn't really acknowledge his fault in anything or like his, the fact that he had been treating me differently. He hadn't been the partner that, that I had grown to know him to be. And he didn't really, he wouldn't really acknowledge that. And kind of just made me feel like it was in my head.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So we get home and we don't really say like that conversation didn't go anywhere. I was kind of taken aback because that's not, he's not very confrontational. And so I, Just kind of didn't really know what to say. So we got home and it's, you know, late. So I shower, I get in bed and he just stays out on the couch, which is not normal.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I ask him, I FaceTime him after about an hour and I'm like, hey, are you going to come to bed? And he's like, well, what for? And I was like, what do you mean what for? And he was silent, didn't say anything. So I get upset. I hang up the phone and I just roll over. I go to bed. The next morning we wake up and he's in bed with me and we're just like scrolling on our phones.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I was like, is this really how we're going to spend our last day together? You know, mind you, I'm not going to see him. probably until at least June, possibly August. So this is a long time that we're not going to see each other. What month are we in? January. He left January 10th.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yes, sir. Yes. With his job, he's working. He's a commercial diver.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So yeah. So he, and I live in the desert, so he's, you know, he couldn't even move his job out here. That's another point of conversation in our relationship too. It's like, it's always going to be long distance. Even if I were to move to where he is, he's always out on remote jobs.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So we're both 26 and this time we've, we've only been together since May of last year. Okay. So it's been like eight months.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So when we dated in high school, we dated for six years until I left when I was 19 to join the military. And I lived with him and his mom. So his mom was like my mom. And so I had always stayed in touch with her. So I was visiting her when I was home over the summer. And I saw him for the first time since I left when we were 19. And it was like no time had passed.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And a week later, he was here visiting. And yeah.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah. So he we spend the whole day, his last day in silence. And oh, earlier in the morning when we woke up and I said, you know, is this how we're going to spend our last day? He says, how else would you rather spend it? And I explain, you know, I feel like we're, you know, at least on my end, like we don't feel like our normal selves. I feel like this is I don't want to end our trip this way.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And he said that he didn't really feel like there was anything that we needed to talk about.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right. And I, and I, of course, and I had, that's, I had every intention of, you know, like sucking it up. I want to like, yeah, I get it. Like, you know, I had every intention of doing that, but I, and another thing that we had talked about previous while he was here is like, he wasn't really creating an environment where that was something I wanted to be doing anyways.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Like you're kind of being cold, withdrawn, like medicine aside, you're not really like. making me want to have sex with you anyway.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So he said it's so funny. He said that he he doesn't really feel like we've listened. I mean, I listen to you every week and he doesn't feel like he's ever heard you give bad advice.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So he's like, you know, maybe I'm having blind spots because I'm in it that he can kind of, you know, shed light on or, you know, maybe he says that he kind of feels like you just help people naturally get to where they're kind of already going.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I think so. Yes. I haven't felt that way in the past. I've told him, I'm like, I feel like you think you're perfect. And that like, it's all, you know, because he multiple times has said, like, you're letting your head get away from you. Like, this is just your anxiety. And it feels to me like he's using it as a cop out. Yeah.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So, but I mean, it seems like he's definitely, he's excited to hear what you have to say for sure. Although he was unwilling to get on the call too.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
No, he's not underwater. He is home. We were actually FaceTiming before we got on the call. And I said, well, what if he asked me to call you? And he's like, oh, I know you're doing it. I just won't answer. That's a shame.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I will text him. No. And it's so funny that you say that because I told him, I was like, he's going to want to know why you're not getting on the call if you're so supportive.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right. No. And I completely agree with everything, everything that you said. I feel like for me, like it's, it's beyond the sex of it because I feel like I can get that, you know, taken care of. Like, obviously we're still going to have different drives and that's, you know, like I, I want to have sex more than I'm wanting to have sex right now.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So that's something that I know that we can find a solution to. It's more so for me now, like how he's handled the situation.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Exactly. And he's said things to me since then, because we've kind of talked in circles about it since he left that I'm just like kind of stunned. It doesn't really feel like the person that I thought I was in a relationship with.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I felt I feel currently and at the time that I don't feel like I'm with person that he portrayed to me that he was in the beginning.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
where we at one point we're on facetime um talking about you know the whole situation and i told him i was like i just feel like you don't care and it was a bit of a heightened you know conversation and he was like i don't care like i don't care to talk about this i don't care you know to continue having this conversation and i said well then what's the point like why am i i might as well why is he so you're describing someone who's getting triggered and gets upset and elevates
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And that's the hard thing. He has said that he has a hard time being empathetic and he's never had mental health struggles. So he doesn't know what it's like for the medication to affect you in these ways. And he has a hard time empathizing.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
No. And he, and that's another thing I tried to create in an environment like, okay, well, what about when we're older and maybe you have a hard time, you know, getting it up or what if I'm postpartum and I can't have sex for a while? Like, is this how you're going to treat me in those situations? Yeah. I just, he, you know, was very flippant like that.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I'm not going to not be able to, you know, just arrogant about that. And then said that he would understand because it's postpartum. And I'm like, so if you can understand that, why can't you understand this? Or at least try to give me grace and time to, you know,
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right, and I definitely could agree with that, and I feel like he feels rejected too, which obviously I totally understand, But I feel like I've been so communicative and like it has nothing to do with my feelings for you and my attraction to you. Like I have tried being affectionate in other ways. And, you know, just in the meantime, I have been very verbal.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Like, hey, this is something that I do feel is short term. And it's more so for me now. Like he I ended up sending him a screenshot of I had this album on my phone of like cute things that he had said to me because I was like, you know, I like I had so many pinch me moments in the beginning of our relationship. Like, how is this real life?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And he sent me this one text about how, you know, I haven't had the easiest life. Obviously I was living with people that weren't my parents when I was 14 years old, you know? So he said, you know, I don't want you to ever have to be alone in anything, or I want to be the person that you can come to and be vulnerable with. And we can figure it out together. Like you'll never be alone again.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I sent him that screenshot and I was like, this is what I mean. Like what happened to this? This doesn't feel like the same person. And he literally said to me, it was easy to say those things when it was okay to touch you.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Truly, some of the things he said to me, I've just been like, I mean, I'm just blown away. Like I, you know, I, yeah. And he just keeps making it like it's my mental health.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Exactly. I can totally understand like why he would be feeling that way for me. And kind of like you said, I told him, well, if that's if sex is like the most important thing to you and that is what you're after, you can get that anywhere. Like you don't need to be entertaining a long term relationship where there's going to be the ebbs and the flows to it.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
You can just, you know, you can get that anywhere. And, you know, he says that he's after a long-term relationship and he wants to have a family. He wants to have, you know, a wife and kids. I just don't feel like.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I will say to you, because he is obviously very supportive of me being here, I went over what I was going to talk about. And everything that I'm saying to you, he completely agreed with. He was like, yep, that's... Up until recently, though, he wouldn't really acknowledge that he was treating me different. He just said that he wasn't getting what he needed. So it was harder for him...
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
to connect with me. He, but then on Thursday, I, I, uh, last week I told him that, you know, I'm kind of feel like I'm at the end of my rope. Like, I feel like I'm giving everything that I can and I'm not really getting anything back. And we're just talking in circles. We're not getting anywhere. And that's when he kind of, he says it was a coincidence to me. It feels like he was like, oh shit.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Okay. Let me, you know, but then he was like, all right, let me, you know, I have been treating you differently out of spite because I was feeling rejected. Let me be different. Let me, you know, show up for you. And so for the past five or six days, he's been, you know, like more attentive. I feel like for me, I'm, I'm now scared though, because it's like, okay, who, who really are you?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Is this, is how you have been the past, you know, two months who you are and that's how you handle conflict. And that's how you will continue to handle conflict. Is this just you putting on a show because you want the companionship while you're out there, you want to have someone to text and to feel like you have somebody to come home to. So he feels like now I have walls up, which I do.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I'm scared now that I don't know which part of him I'm going to get if I'm having, you know, if we're going through a hard time.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And so he like often doesn't have phone service and he's just with like five or six dudes.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I appreciate you saying that. It definitely gives me more because that's something else that I've brought to him is that I was like, I feel like the only thing you value in this relationship is sex. And even with him being gone, yes, obviously it's off the table, but he still expects like a certain like
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
you know, he wants the pictures he wants the, and I get it like he's craving that, that part of the relationship and which I was definitely open to and more receptive to, you know, before he came out here and when we were in a better place and now it's just not that kind of right.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And so he, you know, I told him, I was like, I feel like the only thing that you kind of want out of this relationship, appreciate out of the relationship is sex. And I feel like I bring so much more And he's been like, well, like what? And, you know, I obviously have my point of view. Are you saying this now or he said that then? Since he's been gone within the last few weeks.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Thank you. And some of the things he says, I told him just like how you just said to, you know, I'm choosing to be with you just as much as you're choosing to be with me. And it doesn't really feel like you appreciate that because of the things that you're saying and how cold you're being. It feels like you think that you can do anything and I'll still be here. And that's not the case.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Exactly. And I told him, I was like, you, you know, you're attractive. Like you, you know, you can get sex anywhere. Like it doesn't have to be where there's like all, like it doesn't have to be this difficult for you if that's all that you're after. But then he goes back to saying he wants that emotional connection to that relationship.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
It's like, neither are good. And that's what I told him. I was like, you know, this is just, you know, neither are good to be clear for sure. Sorry. Is that, um, you know, this is just you acting out of character because you're upset and even that's not good. Or this is like who you actually are. And then of course, like, that's not the person that I want to be with.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And so now I'm just, we're kind of at a, as he would say, a stalemate. Like I don't, we're, we're just kind of like, you know, now he's trying and I'm scared.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I've definitely had those moments too in these conversations where I have... gotten heated and I say something and then I go back and I'm like, Hey, like, I'm sorry that I got to that point. That was disrespectful. That's not my intention.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
But even in like talking about it earlier today, when, when, you know, we've been in like an okay place and he's putting an effort now, he was like, yeah, that all sounds, you know, that's, that's what happened. And I said like, I'm worried, baby, this is making you kind of look not the best.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And he was like, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's, I said those things like he'd never has once been like, I'm glad he's owned up to it, but I'm just more like,
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And it's leaving me not knowing what to do. Because a little more context, I have a four-year-old son and I spent a long time trying to make that relationship work with his dad when it wasn't a relationship I should have been in. And so I feel like I'm a little bit now that I've seen like, okay, this isn't really some signs of someone that I want to be with.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I feel like I'm more ready to just be like, all right, you know?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And that's like, and that's where I feel like it's, it's necessary. That's like, you can, what do you have if you don't have that? And I told him with this, like, you know, and I don't feel like, yes. Okay. The initial thing that started that all of this is stemming from is that I'm taking medication that is, you know, causing you to have, you know, sexual dysfunction. Yes, that is the problem.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
But now like there's so much outside of it where I told him, I don't, I feel like if I don't show up as my best or in the way that you want me to, you expect me to, it's not enough for you. So then I feel like I have to put on like this. I can't just be, and that's not, it's just, it's so crazy to me how far different we are now.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah. So I'm just, I'm left with, I don't like, I want to give him the, I don't feel like I've given it everything. Like, I feel like this is the first, you know, we've only been together about like eight months. You know, I don't, this is our first kind of hurdle that I would like to see us get over.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And, you know, this is like, you know, the hard times in a relationship is when you get to show how you can show up for your partner. Yeah.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I have it. I haven't read it yet, but I do have it.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I feel really validated right now. Just I, you know, cause it's, yeah, you said that perfectly. I'm just, I'm taking it all in. It's a lot. And I do feel like that is with how we met, right. And his mom, I call her mom, you know, we stayed in touch six years. My son calls her Nana.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So for me, that is something that I would definitely grieve if, you know, we were to go our separate ways is that would be right. Like amazing, but that's definitely not what's holding our relationship together. That's not what we're going to fall back on every day. And I can acknowledge that it is something that I've kind of thought about. I would have to separate myself from that.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I was like, listen, if you were giving me it, yeah, if you were giving me like any kind of like environment where I was like, you know, anything, if you were giving me anything at all, like it would be so much easier for me to lean into that side.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
But even like, I've been down dosing my medication and like within the next month or so, like I should be, you know, like that shouldn't be playing a role anymore. Um, you know, with the, the sex, sexual dysfunction. And I still am not like, I'm just like, it's, I don't enjoy, you know, getting on the phone and having like, we're trying to find the quality time. Like
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
It just always feels so heavy because this is consuming every part of our relationship when we're long distance right now. That shouldn't even be a huge part of it right now. It's stuck in his head.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And that's definitely something that I will bring up to him too. You know, he's eager. I tried getting him on the call, but he's eager to hear what you had to say. So I'm definitely going to let him know that.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
He wanted me to ask, he was like, well, how long am I going to have to wait?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
That's very validating to hear. Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional. It's just, I feel like it's been like made out to be in my head so much, you know? So it's really validating to hear that. Like, I feel like I've, like I've told him, I feel like I've done everything I can. Like, I feel like I'm at the end of my rope. Like, I don't know what else there is for me to do. Um, and you're right.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
It's not really like, it's my problem. It's for his to decide if he wants to show up and be different. And if he doesn't, and he even said last week when we were talking, when he was like, you're right, I've been doing this out of spite. He said, let's not talk about it. Let me be different. And if I'm not like you have your answer.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
But now I'm having a hard time kind of being like vulnerable and letting him because it's like so much has, it's been so much that's happened.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah, but that's the thing, Nick. I feel like he's so prideful that if I were like in his head and I told him this, I said, I just really want you to understand that if I do choose to walk away, it's not me not being able to handle the distance. It's not me, my mental health. It's not that it's that you're not showing up, like you're not giving me what I need.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And then, you know, it's just I feel like he's so prideful that he wouldn't. Let himself.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Um, these are my friends there and I'm close with my parents now. They were both, they're just, uh, they're drug addicts and they're sober now. Um, but I, yeah, yeah. So it's, we have relationships now, but it's not, you know, I've, I've always struggled and he was there, you know, for, for all of that when we were in high school and everything kind of fell apart there.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Um, but I've always just felt like, you know, had a hard time feeling like I'm enough, you know, and it's something I've sorted through in therapy as well, but, um, it's definitely in the forefront now.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And that's something he did bring up to me this morning, you know, because I've been very vocal. Like, listen, I see that you've been trying the past few days and it's I feel like my walls are up. I feel like I'm having a harder time being vulnerable and letting you in. And he's like, well, I need you to tell me. If like, are you going to just do what I've been doing?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And now that I'm trying, are you just like he was like, now are we going to swap roles? Like, what's the point of even continuing that?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right. And that's what I told him. I said, I definitely don't want you to feel like, like you said, tit for tat. It's like, this is me being scared of like, I don't know if who you have been acting like is who you are or if, you know, that was a lapse in character. And obviously I want to give you the opportunity to show up for me how you say that you're going to now. But I'm scared.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I don't know what to believe or how long this possible nice act is going to last. So it's scary for me to people.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
It was easy to say those things when it was okay to touch you.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I guess I haven't considered that he might actually believe those things.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
No, I appreciate that point of view because that's not something that I had, you know, when he's asked me, like when we've talked about like what all I bring to the relationship and what he brings, that's not something that I've really considered.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right. And that's something that, you know, I feel like that question has definitely been more like put onto me what I bring. I will say that I know like he obviously has, you know, financial security, of course he, you know, and when things were going well, he showed up for me in so many ways. Like he, you know, would like make me breakfast every morning.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
We, you know, like do dance classes together. Like we have like, I have so many pinch me moments with the things that he would say to me about how, like, is this like, I can't believe someone's finally showing up for me this way. And, you know, it's, it's felt like it was happening.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
We were connecting so naturally, I guess I haven't flat out asked him what he feels like he brings to the relationship in present day.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So he has said to me that... We've talked about being empathetic. He has said to me that he has a hard time Like that's not his strong suit. And he's literally flat out said, if that's somebody, if you want somebody where that is like, they're coming into it and that's their strong suit. Like, I'm not your person. Like, obviously he's, you know, said that he'll work on it.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right. I think that'll be really beneficial for him when he hears it. I won't tell him beforehand, but when he hears it, I think that that'll be really good.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I feel like that'll definitely give him some perspective hearing your point of view on that. Because I've asked him before, why do you have such a hard time showing empathy or And he says that he has a hard time with it because he thinks that every decision you've made has gotten you to where you are. So why should he feel bad for you about it?
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
He says that like when, and maybe I didn't say it in the best.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Okay. All right. I have the questions written down. I'm going to talk to him after this, and then I'll let him hear the rest from you. But I really appreciate your time and all of your insight and perspective.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I literally asked him, I said, well, what if he tells me to break up with you? And he was like, well, then I don't feel like he's leading you astray. Like it's, yeah, it's astonishing.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Right. Thank you so much. I do feel better. I do. I've been like so excited for this and anxious and I listen to you all the time. I know everybody always says that, but I, yeah, you guys are great. You keep me company on my commute.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Okay. I can do that. That's a good challenge. I can do that.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Okay. I will. Thank you guys so much for everything that you do.
Today, Explained
All eyes back on Gaza
It's sad that people try to make it controversial when you speak out for children that are facing immeasurable suffering.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you all today is very devastating. The details are very difficult to hear. This is one of the worst cases of abuse that I think I have looked into and researching this case was very tough.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
He said that he's seen Judah be bound at the wrists and ankles with duct tape. He said that Judah's arms would typically be forced behind his back. The brother said that he had just had his birthday party that passed Sunday on November 10th. And he said that while the party was going on,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
judo was in the basement that's where he almost always was when he was living with mary and alan he spent all of those months living with his biological parents being bound and beaten inside of a cold dark basement without food without a bathroom and without clothes police then went ahead and spoke with jesse morgan who is alan's brother He told detectives that at 2.23 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
on November 11th, so about 22 minutes before 911 received that call, he started getting messages from Mary saying that she needed help because there was a serious emergency happening. At 2.25 a.m., Mary tried calling Jesse through Facebook Messenger, but he didn't answer. So, Mary sent Jesse another message, which stated, "...I mean, I kind of hate him right now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
I mean, I have every right to, I guess, but I still don't want him to kill himself." You know, I don't need two people gone in one day. Jesse also told the police that he had been over at their house for their birthday party on the 10th, and he said that he hadn't seen Judah. He was told by Mary and Alan that Judah was over at his friend's house that day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
So we have a pretty clear picture of what happened that day. Alan and Mary had been abusing Judah as well as their other children, but it seemed like Judah got the worst of it. So, after finding his tiny, lifeless body on November 11th, Judah was sent off to the medical examiner for an autopsy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
And as if this case couldn't get any worse, what that boy went through in his final moments are horrific. Judah died as a result of blunt force trauma to his head, causing a massive subdural hematoma, basically a brain bleed as a result of trauma to the head. After finding all of this out, of course, Allen was arrested and charged with counts of first-degree murder, five counts of neglect,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
and one count of cruelty to an animal. As police continued their investigation to build a case against Alan, they found that there was actually a surveillance video from inside the home that showed Alan repeatedly punching Judah, holding him up by his neck and dropping him on the floor. And it showed him leaving Judah alone for hours and hours and hours at a time in that cold, dark basement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
The video showed that on October 7th, 2021, Alan punched Judah at least 13 times that day and another 15 times the following day. They also saw him kicking and throwing Judah as well. The surveillance camera then showed Alan carrying the lifeless body from the basement. They then found internet searches on his computer for how to perform CPR on a toddler.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
He loved the movie Cars with his favorite character being Lightning McQueen. However, Judah had a very rough life from the moment he was born. In the days before he was born, the Department of Child Services had received complaints that Judah's older siblings had been abused and neglected by their parents, and upon investigation, it appeared that there was abuse and neglect happening in the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
I don't know the exact day that this happened because, again, they called 911 in November, but all of these incidents are described as happening in October, so I'm not sure how long he had been dead before his body was found, but just based on...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
What I've deduced from this case, I do think that the CPR and the Google searches were probably on November 10th or 11th, and these other incidences happened in October. Either way, like we said earlier, Mary claimed that she never physically harmed Judah. But the surveillance videos showed that on October 6th, she was seen striking him and throwing him to the floor before repeatedly kicking him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
The days after that show the family leaving the house with Judah, leaving him in the basement alone again for hours and hours and hours at a time. So as of September of 2022, Alan has pled guilty to charges of murder and battery. And in exchange for his guilty plea, the charges of neglect and animal cruelty have been dropped. Which I think is ridiculous.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
It's like the abuse and neglect of those other children that suffered didn't really matter to them. And that poor dog, its life doesn't matter to the courts either. In exchange for the plea, the prosecution took life without parole off the table. Instead, Alan was given a sentence of 70 years in prison before he will be considered for parole.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
The judge in this case said that the level of abuse and physical harm that this child went through was enough to say that he deserves the longest possible sentence. Which I guess I'm thankful for that Alan isn't going to get off easy for what he did, but I certainly hope that he never gets out of prison because this case is just...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
ridiculous as for mary her trial and charges took a lot longer she initially pled not guilty and was said to go on trial in september of this year however as of a couple of weeks ago she just had her most recent court appearance in which she accepted responsibility for neglecting judah she has just pleaded guilty to charges of a felony count of neglect that resulted in death
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
as well as domestic battery for incidents involving the other children the judge in this case took the plea under consideration and has set a hearing for november 1st to decide whether to accept the plea and to carry out the sentencing so of course i will let you all know what comes of that now after all of this was found out obviously those in judah's life wanted to know how
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
how this could have possibly happened. It turned out that DCF never once checked on Judah after placing him in the home with his biological parents. Not only that, but they had actually closed his case two months after being placed. So this is a clear case of pure laziness causing the worst possible outcome for a child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
And when he was born, it was found that Judah had very large amounts of THC in his system, so his mother couldn't bring herself to stop smoking weed while she was pregnant. So, Judah's three-year-old brother was removed from the home and he was placed with his maternal grandmother. Judah was then not allowed to return home with his family and was placed into kinship care.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
If the people responsible for protecting this child had done their job, then maybe this adorable little child would be alive today. If those workers had just filed for the parental rights to be terminated, if they had checked on him even one time, even one time after he was placed with them, they would have seen how badly they were all being treated.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
all they had to do was literally knock on the door of mary and alan's house let them open and look past them to see how badly this house was and how badly the conditions that these children were living in and they didn't even do that the people in this case didn't even have to go above and beyond they didn't have to go beyond the expectations they literally just had to do the bare minimum that was listed in their job description and if they just did that took
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
an hour out of their time to check on him at the house after he was placed there, he would still be alive today. And I truly believe that. But they didn't even do that. They weren't just lazy. They did absolutely nothing. They were negligent. They did not do their jobs. As far as I've been able to see, DCS has not publicly commented on this case. And why would they?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They know that they are directly responsible for the death of Judah. They know that they didn't do their jobs. They know that the blood of this four-year-old child is on their hands. Either way, as of right now, Gina has filed for a civil lawsuit against Alan for the death of his child. They blame CPS for their inaction. Obviously, they blame Alan for being a monster.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
But most of all, with the civil lawsuit, Gina just wants an explanation. Why did he treat this sweet, adorable young boy so badly? What is so wrong inside of him that made him think that this was okay? What is so wrong with him that made him look at this four-year-old little child probably begging to be treated just normally and still decide that he doesn't deserve that? People want answers.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
We all want answers. At a sentencing hearing, Alan denied giving a statement of remorse two times. I saw one statement from a judge which said that he blamed it on being a blur and he tried blaming the abuse that he handed out on that baby on everybody else but himself. He will not take accountability for what he did, which makes me...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Judah was placed into the care of his biologically related third cousin, Gina Hullet, and her husband, Phil. Gina had three children of her own, Kyle, Caitlin, and Madison, and she thought that Judah would adjust really well in her home. She knew that she could provide a stable, safe, loving home for Judah to grow up in. Now, there is a difference between being placed into foster care and kinship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
just that much more angry with this case that even the person responsible won't hold himself accountable for what he did. Something good that did come out of this case was Judah's Law, which was passed in early 2022. This law allows unlicensed caregivers the chance to stop a child from being placed with their biological parents if they pose a threat to the child's safety.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Because according to Gina, they wouldn't listen to her or really even take her words seriously when she warned the courts of the glaring red flags that were there. So I hope this new law does make a difference. I hope that some children can be saved. I hope that when these adults do express their concerns, that they're actually listened to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
I hope CPS does some internal review to figure out how this happened, and I hope that they will eventually come out to the public to tell us why and how this happened. But I'm not holding my breath. I don't think that's going to happen with CPS. They dropped the ball. They know they dropped the ball.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
and frankly they're not taking accountability for it nobody's taking accountability for this young child's death and it's that's one of the most infuriating things about this case is the lack of accountability by all people involved but for now that is all of the information that i have on this case
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Again, as I was researching, I had to stop multiple times to assess whether I even could cover this case. I could not believe what this child went through. I can't imagine that there are people out there that are so evil that they will go to these levels to abuse a child. And the biggest question that I have is if they didn't want him. They clearly didn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They clearly did not want this little boy in their home. If they didn't want him so badly, why not just let him stay with a family who will love him? I will never understand. Why do these parents want their children back if they are such an inconvenience to them? Clearly, these parents did not love Judah. They clearly did not want him around. They left him in that basement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
didn't even treat him like a human being. They left him for days and hours at a time. They clearly wanted nothing to do with him. They clearly did not want to raise him. They clearly did not see him as a human. So why did they want him in their home? Why didn't they just let Gina keep him? I will never, never understand. Because if they had just...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Left their shitty ass parenting out of this left their children out of it. They wouldn't be in jail right now Maybe these parents need to think about that next time if you want a little person in your house that you don't freaking like Just let them go back to their foster parents. I I Will never understand. I will never understand How this happened why it happened. It's so frustrating.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
It's so infuriating but I That is where I am going to leave this case. You all know that I can rant on and on about everything wrong in this case and the system, but I can at least be hopeful that maybe there will be some movement. Hopefully, Mary will have to take responsibility for what she did. Again, I will let you all know what happens with that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
There has been a new law passed, and I really hope that this new law makes a big difference, and I really hope it saves the lives of... at least one child. I guess that's the one good thing that came out of this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Foster parents have to have a license that requires specific requirements in order to have a child placed into their care. They're given payments by the government to help take care of that child as well. They have the option to adopt at a certain point, but the goal with foster care is to eventually place the child back with their biological family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
I actually researched it a while ago, maybe three or four weeks ago at this point, but I couldn't bring myself to share this case until now because whatever you can imagine a child could go through for absolutely no reason, this is going to be worse. So if that is something that you are very sensitive to, I would advise that you skip this video for now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
As we know, foster care doesn't always work and although the goal is that there's a very strict criteria and there are a lot of regulations that have to be followed, there are a lot of situations where children end up in homes that are bad, if not worse, from the home that they were taken from. But in a lot of situations, the foster family is amazing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They do their best to care for the child and make them feel welcome and like they're a part of the family. On the other hand, kinship care is legal guardianship by relatives or very close friends of the family. A lot of times, kinships involve grandparents, siblings of the parents, so the child's aunts or uncles.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
A lot of the times, this can be done with or without the involvement of a child welfare agency. They also aren't given any sort of financial assistance for taking a child in. A lot of times, kinship is the preferred choice because they get to stay with their biological or close family. They get to stay in a situation that they may be more familiar with.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They may get to keep contact with their siblings if, let's say, only one child is removed from the home. Either way, while Judah was with Gina and her family, they considered him as one of their own. Judah's older siblings all loved and adored their baby brother. Judah called Gina mommy and Phil daddy. He went on to meet all of his motor milestones right on schedule, some of them being early.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Like I said, he was an intelligent young boy and he was potty trained by the age of two years old. He lived with the Holitz for the next four years of his life. So basically... That was all he knew. Gina and Phil wanted to adopt Judah as his own and over those four years they were told several times that they would be given the chance to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They were promised that eventually Judah would be theirs permanently. While Judah was living with Gina and Phil, Mary Yoder, his biological mother, went on to have two more children. One in October of 2019 and in September of 2020. Both, I believe, were sons. Also, during the course of those four years, Judah had to do home visits with his biological parents.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
But throughout these visits, Gina and Phil saw just how much Judah hated going to these visits. He would cry and ask not to go, and every time, Gina would have to look away and hide how upset she was, knowing that she had no choice but to send him to his biological parents' house. As these visits went on, Judah started telling Gina and Phil about the abuse that he was witnessing in their home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
He said that he saw Alan kick his younger brother down the stairs and said that Alan was hurting him as well. Then, for some ungodly reason, Still haven't been able to figure it out. Alan and Mary were granted overnight visits. And even though Judah was potty trained, he started having accidents in the middle of the night after these overnight visits started happening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Children who are potty trained having sudden bouts of accidents in bed can be a huge sign that something is going on. Whether it be abuse or psychological trauma, it is an indicator that something is going on. Now, while doing these home visits, it was clear that neither Judah's older brother or he should be placed back with his biological family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
I think it's also clear that the other siblings should have been removed from the home as well. But according to Gina, the LaPorte County DCS simply dropped the ball. The county's regional manager told Gina that they were going to be filing a termination on parental rights two different times. Once was in 2019 and the other was in 2020. But this was never done.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
But if you can handle it, I want you to hear the story of this sweet, adorable little boy who is taken from this world way too soon for absolutely no reason. So without any further delay, let's get into it. Judah Morgan was born on June 17th, 2017 in Lepore, Indiana to 21-year-old Mary Yoder and 23-year-old Alan Morgan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
And Gina says that she never got an explanation for why. I've spent a lot of time with this case trying to figure out exactly why.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
how the courts determined that the home in which Alan and Mary lived was suitable for children, why they went forward with home visits and overnight visits and a trial home visit when it was clear that Mary and Alan put no effort forward whatsoever to create a good environment for their children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Even on social media, Mary was posting Facebook posts to say that Alan didn't love her, respect her, or treat her right. There were clearly issues in the family and they weren't even hiding them. There were obvious issues in the relationship that were blatantly obvious for anybody who knew the couple. But somehow, the courts decided to place these children back with Mary and Alan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
By October of 2020, Judah's older brother, who again had been living with his grandparents, was placed back with his biological family. Then in April of 2021, Judah was placed back in the care of Mary and Alan. When the decision was made, Gina and Phil were devastated.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They tried to warn the courts of all of the red flags that they clearly saw, saying that this was not a safe situation for Judah, but they didn't care. Judah was back with Mary and Alan, and after returning home, Mary would not allow Gina to see Judah again. ever again. As you can expect, this placement did not end well at all. Only a few months after his placement at 2.45 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
on November 11th, 2021, the LaPorte County Police Department received a 911 call from Mary Yoder to report that their four-year-old son was unconscious and not breathing. After the officers were dispatched, they were informed that the child had been battered by his father, Alan Morgan. They had received a second call at 2.53 a.m. saying that Alan had lost his temper and hurt the child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
She said that she was scared and she didn't know what to do. Officer Michael Sweet was the first officer to arrive on scene by 2.58 a.m. with other deputies arriving a minute or two later. They initially knocked on the doors and nobody answered. So they made their way in through the unlocked door. Immediately upon entering, police found a four-year-old male lying inside of a bedroom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
He was nude, covered in a blanket, and he had bruises all over his little body, as well as bruises and other red marks on his face, neck, and head. He was also clearly malnourished, and when they checked him for a pulse, he didn't have one. He also noted that the boy was cold to touch, so he had been deceased for quite some time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Officers then went around the home to check and see if there was anyone else there, and they found three additional children, aged seven, two, and one year old. They were alive, so they were taken out of the home and escorted to ambulances for treatment. At that time, they were unable to locate any adults within the home, so all of these young children had just been left alone in the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
It was also clear to law enforcement that both Mary and Alan had been on the run, so they put out a bolo or a be on the lookout for Alan and Mary, as well as their vehicles. When they started looking around the home, they saw that the entire inside of the home was absolutely filthy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
The outside of the home had trash everywhere and on the inside of the home they found clothes everywhere, garbage strewn all around, rotting food, and animal feces all throughout the home. There was also a very strong odor of urine and rotting food. When officers entered the kitchen, they saw that the fridge had a lock on it which prevented anybody from getting inside of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
There were two cats walking around the house as well as a dog that was locked inside of a tiny cage and it was extremely malnourished according to court documents. The crate was filled with feces and urine and the dog's hair was completely matted and dirty. The dog's crate was located near the kitchen, located at the top of the basement stairs. Which, again, just very disturbing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
When Judah was born, he had one older brother who was three years old at the time. Judah was known to be a happy energetic little boy. He loved fruit and popcorn on family movie nights. He was also known to be an intelligent little boy who learned very quickly and loved teaching others about the things that he knew. His family says that only 18 months old, Judah knew his right hand from his left.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
Animal abuse is just... It's just as worse as child abuse and it's awful. This case is awful, but let's keep going. We haven't even gotten into the worst part of this case yet. As investigators made their way into the unfinished basement, they found that it was cold and dark and none of the lights worked.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They found that there were several pieces of silver and camouflage duct tape all around the floor in that basement. They found one piece of duct tape taped together to a small circle shape, only a few inches in diameter, so like a ring shape. They found another small piece of duct tape stuck to a small black sock. Then there was another piece of duct tape stuck to the wall.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
The duct tape was located about one foot off of the floor and was sticking to a 2x4 piece of wood or a stud used for framing a wall. They also found a small training infant sized toilet containing feces and urine. They found a large fluffy blanket in the basement that also had pieces of duct tape stuck to it and the blanket also smelled like urine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
They found small toddler-sized sweatpants, which also smelled like urine. There were also two small pipes and a coaxial cable in the basement near where the blanket, sweatpants, tape, and toilet were all located. As these investigators were looking throughout the house and were finding this horrific scene, other officers were able to locate both Alan and Mary, who were in Knox, Indiana. By 7 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
that morning, they were taken into custody and questioned. Now, Mary was interviewed by detectives and she told them a very disturbing story. It really shed a light on everything that was going on in the house and all of the horrific, awful things that those poor children and pets had been through. Mary said that Alan was very abusive towards all of the children, but especially Judah.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
So, I'm going to tell you some of the things that were going on in the house, but again, they are disturbing. Awful. They're horrific. So Mary said that Alan would send Duda to the basement as punishment for not being potty trained like the other children were. Which, as we stated earlier, Gina said that he was potty trained. So that doesn't seem to be the reason why he was punished.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
So they're either lying or he was having accidents because he was being abused and he was traumatized. Mary said that Alan would bind Judah by using duct tape. He shut off the lights in the basement on purpose so that he could scare him and would purposely withhold food as punishment. Mary said that she would also send Judah down to the basement for punishment while Alan was at work.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
According to Mary, he would be in the basement about three times per week, but she couldn't say how long he would be trapped down there. She did say, though, that there were times that he would be trapped down there for a period of a few days at a time before he would be allowed to come back up and join the rest of the family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
She also said that she would typically send Judah down to the basement naked, so they wanted him as cold and vulnerable as possible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
once he was out of the basement mary would say that if alan told him to go back down if judo refused alan would grab him by the neck and would forcibly carry him down there she said that there wasn't a bed down there but she said that there was a fuzzy blanket to make sure that he was nice and comfy
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
She said that she saw Alan physically abuse and beat Judah and there were times that Mary would try to stop him and apparently say that's enough or leave him alone. She also denied having ever physically abused Judah but she admitted that she didn't do much of anything to stop Alan from abusing him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
He loved wearing hats and smiling big for photos. He loved spending time with his siblings and playing with the family dogs, Thor and Willow, taking them to the park with his family whenever he got a chance. He loved jumping into puddles, riding his bike, and being outdoors. He loved to sing and dance and some of his favorite shows were Paw Patrol, PJ Masks, and The Magic School Bus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
She said that she would leave him in the basement for days at a time and did nothing to comfort him, make Alan stop hurting him, or even, I don't know, maybe let him go back to his foster family since they clearly did not want him in their house. They clearly hated him, but...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
gina was not allowed to see him anymore because she was going to treat him right and they couldn't have that happen for whatever reason then police went ahead and interviewed judah's older brother who was seven years old at the time judah's older brother said that he witnessed mary forcibly take judah down to the basement multiple times
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She WARNED them About his Parents. Then he was MURDERED by them. The Tragic case of Judah Morgan
He said that he has seen Mary do this alone, Alan would do it alone, and there were times that they would bring him down there together. He said that he heard Alan and Mary screaming at each other and at Judah while they were in the basement, and he also heard sounds of physical abuse while he was in the basement as well. He said that he witnessed Alan beating Judah with his hands.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Mother "Butchered" Her Twin Daughters with a Samurai Sword: THE TRAGIC MURDERS OF TORI AND LILY BALL
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Es gab tatsächlich dreieinhalb Stunden lang von dieser Nacht gedreht. Turns out, this is something that Gable did quite often. He actually kept a list of the names and dates of the women that he had slept with. In addition to that, he said that he recorded these interactions with women so that he could have a record of what happened that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Like I said, he said that sometimes he would drink so much that he would forget everything that happened that night. So, his solution to this was to just record everything. alle Interaktionen, die er hatte, damit er sie am nächsten Tag hören kann und herausfinden kann, was passiert ist. Von dieser Nacht habe ich tatsächlich die gesamten drei Stunden ungeschlossener Rekorde gehört.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber als Warina ein Jahr alt war, hat ihre Mutter die Familie in Wellington, New Zealand gewechselt. Als sie gestorben war, hatte Warina mit ihrer Schwester Marisa gelebt. Die beiden hatten ein Zimmer zusammen, aber Warina hatte an der Zeit gesichert, damit sie ein Haus für die beiden kaufen konnte. Warina und Marisa waren sehr nah, aber als sie älter wurden, wurde diese Beziehung immer stärker.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich werde die gesamte Rekorde unten unten posten, wenn du sie alle hören möchtest, weil natürlich Hören sie ihre Stimmen und wie es sich ausgelöst hat, kann dir definitiv mehr Aufmerksamkeit geben, wie es genau passiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich werde einige Teile ihres Gesprächs in diesem Video haben, ich werde es in die Beschreibung schicken, aber es gibt Teile, die Musik gespielt haben für die ersten 30 Minuten ihrer Interaktionen. Ich werde das nicht inkludieren, weil das kopiert wird und wir wollen keine Kopierklammer auf dieses Video haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber ich werde das ganze Ding unten auf der Liste haben, wenn du dich wünschst, das gesamte Video zu hören. Es gibt Teile, die ich dir lesen werde und dann werde ich sie spielen. Es gibt Teile, die ich nicht spielen werde, also bleib mit mir, wenn wir durchgehen. Aber ich werde dich warnen, bevor du das Video klickst, um es für dich zu hören, dass du etwa, ich würde sagen, halbwegs durch das Video,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
hören sie das Geräusch ihres Schreisens und des Fallens aus dem Balkon. Also, wenn das etwas ist, das für dich zu traurig wäre und etwas ist, was du nicht hören willst, dann schlage ich dir vor, nicht zu hören. Ich werde versuchen, diese Teilung in diesem Video auch zu verwenden, weil ich denke, es ist wichtig zu hören, um zu verstehen, wie das ganze Ganze passiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber ich werde dich warnen, wenn das kommt, wenn du diese Teilung des Videos auswählen möchtest. Also, lasst uns in die Gespräche von dieser Nacht beginnen. Die Konversation beginnt um 12.56 Uhr, wenn die Musik spielt. Und dann um 12.57 Uhr hört Gable, dass er sagt, dass er nicht gehen soll, Baby, bitte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Um 1.02 Uhr hört er, dass er Warina fragt, um mit ihm zu schlafen und einen Trinken zu trinken. Er sagt das zweimal, aber Warina sagt, dass sie psychokrank ist und sie nicht testen soll. Sie sprechen darüber, wie er morgen auf Arbeit gehen muss. Und dann sagt sie, dass sie okay mit dem Tod ist. Sie sprachen darüber in Bezug auf Trinken und Schlafen und solche Dinge.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
They also get into a conversation about God and spirituality. She says that she thinks that God is everywhere, but Gable said that there is no God. He said, quote, I don't think there's anything after this. You die and that's it. throw me off the balcony and that's it. Boom. By 1.19 am there are sounds of laughing and hitting in the background.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
It sounds sort of like a playful fight until Warina says, no seriously bro and then Gable says, ow. She says, this is Australia baby, I am a ninja and then a few minutes after that there's more conversation but you can't really hear much of what they're saying. bis um 1.26 Uhr, als Gable sagt, ich sollte dich nach Hause bringen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Gable sagt, stopp, nachdem er das gesagt hat, und ich weiß nicht genau, was sie an diesem Punkt macht, aber er sagt ihr, sie zu stoppen. Er würde später sagen, dass an dieser Zeit in der Rekorde, das war, als Warina ihn schießt, Warina sagt zu diesem Zeitpunkt, oh mein Gott, du bist wie ein Christ. Und dann sagt Warina, sei nicht ein Arschloch für mich.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Um 1.26 Uhr sagt er, ich will dich nicht muskeln lassen. Dann sagt er, relaxe einfach. Ich mag es nicht, mich aufzulösen. Sei einfach nett. Nachdem das alles ein bisschen entspannt ist, haben sie eine normalere Konversation. Um 1.32 Uhr sagt Gable, er will noch einen Trinken. und fragt Warina, um zu ihm zu kommen. Und dann antwortet sie ihm, gute Nacht zu sagen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er fragt Warina, willst du, dass ich dich nach Hause fahre? Und dann sind es nur Geräusche. Und dann, wieder einmal, sagt Warina, gute Nacht zu haben. Gable sagt, nein, bleib einfach die Nacht. Ich werde dich morgen kümmern. Dann gibt es nur mehr Geräusche. Du kannst nicht wirklich hören, was los ist. Und wieder einmal, nach dem, er bittet, Warina nach Hause zu fahren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Warina wurde von ihrer Schwester beschrieben, als sei sie ein Anwesender und ein Verteidiger. Marisa sagte einmal, dass wir meistens nur einander relying haben. Sie sah mich aus und machte sicher, dass ich in Ordnung war. Sie war auch sehr verantwortlich. Sie war eine wunderschöne, intelligente, verehrte Person, die nicht nur meine Schwester war, sondern auch mein bester Freund.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann beginnt die Argumentation und die Dinge starten zu escalieren. Um 1.35 Uhr stoppt die Musik, nachdem sie die ganze Zeit gespielt hat. An diesem Punkt hören wir Warina sich sehr agitieren. Sie sagt, wo ist meine Schwester? Wo ist all mein verdammtes Daten? Wo ist mein iPhone? Gable fragt, ob sie das anrufen will und sie sagt, dass sie es gerne anrufen würde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Um 1.36 Uhr fragt Gable, hey, ich habe nicht gesagt, dass du gehen musstest, ich habe gesagt, dass du mich stoppen musst. Du kannst sie hören, dass sie immer mehr agitiert wird, dass sie nicht sein Handy finden kann. Dann fragt sie, ob sie mich nicht anrufen will, weil ich deinen Mund zerstören werde. Es ist nicht lustig. Er sagt, es ist da und sie sagt, ich brauche es.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er sagt, nein, es ist da, du bekommst es. Und sie sagt, ich werde die Polizei anrufen. Sie gehen weiter und weiter darüber, ihre Telefonnummer zu finden und sie sagt immer, dass sie die Polizei anrufen wird. Wo ist meine Schwester? Das ist deine Tasche, ist es nicht?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann beginnt sie zu sagen, wo ist mein Geld und sagt immer, dass sie die Polizei anrufen wird. Und er fragt, wie genau du die Polizei anrufen wirst, wenn du dein Handy nicht finden kannst. Und sie sagt, genau, du hast es verloren. Sie sagt dann immer, dass er ihr Geld verloren hat. Und dann sagt er, dass sie zu viel zu trinken hatte und dass er ihr nicht so viel zu trinken geben sollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie war ein lustiger Praktiker, der mich und meine Freunde ständig enttäuscht und glücklich gehalten hat. Sie hatte auch eine starke Liebe zu Tieren und sie hat stark für die Rechte von Tieren geantwortet. Sie hat immer verschiedene Artikel online veröffentlicht, um Aufmerksamkeit über Tierverwaltungen zu erheben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
He then tries calling her phone and at this point he says it must be dead and it might be on the balcony. He asks her to calm down and she says no. Gable then talks about how Warina has been beating him up dass sie viel stärker ist, als sie denkt, und dass es nicht cool ist, dass sie ihn aufschlägt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann, an diesem Punkt, scheint es so aus, dass er ihr Handy findet, und dann fragt er sie, um darüber zu reden, und dann haben sie eine normalere Konversation, und die Dinge sind nicht so heiß.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie hat sogar Letter zu dem Parlament geschrieben, um zu versuchen, für diejenigen, die Tiere verletzt haben, schärfere Penalitäten zu kämpfen. Sie hatte immer gewünscht, ein Haus zu haben, wo sie alle ungewöhnlichen Tiere nach Hause bringen kann, damit sie sie kümmern und ihnen das, was sie brauchen, geben kann.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er bittet sie dann, etwas zu essen zu machen, aber sie sagt nein. Er hat wieder gesagt, dass sie ihn aufhören würde und dass er nicht der Typ wäre, den sie aufhören sollte. Dann haben sie eine Konversation über etwas Ungewöhnliches. Sie sagt, dass sie sehr nett ist und dass sie für jeden was tun würde und dass sie jemandem ihre Lebensversorgung geben würde, wenn sie es benötigt hätten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann sprechen sie über griechische Götter und sie fragt ihn, was er von Zeus und Persephone weiß. Dann sagt sie, dass sie nach dem Fenster gehen wird und sich anschauen wird und er sagt, dass sie nicht wegsteigen soll und sie sagt, dass Gott weiß, oder so etwas. Dann sagt er, dass Leute mit weißen Schuhen auf die Tür kommen werden und sie nehmen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie hat gesagt, dass sie auf den Balkon springen wird. Und er sagt, nein, es ist völlig okay. Ich bin überrascht. Mein Vodka hat dir das getan. Dann hörst du den Geräusch von Warina, die etwas aufnimmt. Und Gable sagt, nimm das nicht. Es ist ein echter Rock. Und sie sagt, es ist cool. Dann klingt es, als würde Warina in den Kühlschrank gehen, weil du die Tür schalten kannst.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und dann wispert Gable in sein iPhone, Gott helfe mir, Scheiße. Aber es ist wirklich schwer, diese Partie zu hören.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Außerdem wussten die Leute um sie herum, dass sie ein praktischer Jokers, Unternehmer und aspiring Fotograf war. Sie war jemand, der Adventure liebte und kein Problem hatte, solo zu reisen. Sie war ein bisschen ein Nerd, der Verschwörungstheorien, Schreiben, Spielen, Anime und Hello Kitty liebte. Jetzt, am 29.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie kommt dann zurück und sie sprechen weiter und du hörst den Geräusch von mehr trinken und dann hörst du sie schreien. Dann gibt es den Geräusch von mehr trinken. Dann klingt es so, als ob Warina etwas verbrochen hat oder es war, weil Gable ihr sagt, dass sie sich nicht mehr zurückhalten soll. Warina sagt, kannst du meiner Schwester erzählen, dass ich kein Idiot bin?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und Gable sagt, wenn du versuchst, mich nicht zu töten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
They continue to have a conversation until he says that he's going to sleep and then asks her if she's coming with him. They continue chatting and you can hear the sounds of pouring multiple times. Then they continue talking until there's sounds of rustling around. Und dann hört man sie anfangen, hart zu atmen. Und dann hört man warren grunzen. Man hört Gable schreien, au.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Juli 2014, flog Warina nach Gold Coast, Australien, um ein Gebäude für ihre Freundin Hailey zu besuchen. Sie hat drei Nachts am Gebäuderesort mit ihren Freunden verbracht und sie war bereit, nach Hause zu gehen. Jedoch liebte Warina die Abenteuer, wie ich gesagt habe. Sie war noch nicht fertig, Australien zu besuchen, also hat sie ihre Abenteuer in einer Woche und eine halben Woche gesteigert,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann, um 2.15 Uhr, sagt er, ich dachte, du warst verrückt und ich hatte genug. Das ist verdammte Scheiße. Du bist glücklich, ich habe dich nicht aus meinem Balkon gehackt, du verdammte kleine Psycho-Bitch. Wer zur Hölle denkst du, dass du bist? Sie beginnt, wieder schwer zu atmen und dann sagt er, was, wenn du etwas zu sagen hast, dann sag es.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
und sie hat sich eine Wohnung am Crown Plaza Hotel in Surfers Paradise gekauft, um ihre Verabschiedung zu fortsetzen. Währenddessen hat sie auf den wunderschönen Gold Coast Beachen gehalten, sie ist in den Zoo gegangen, sie hat Skydiving gemacht und sie hat sogar den Q1 gegründet, welcher eines der weltweit höchsten Gebäude ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und sie sagt etwas wie, du bist sexistisch, aber ich kann es nicht genau sagen, was sie sagt, aber das ist, was es mir klingt. And then Gable says, yeah right, I'm the one who's injured and you don't have a goddamn scratch on you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
At 2.16 he says, I thought you were just playing around, but I'm effing sick of this shit. You're a goddamn psycho. I'm going to let you go. I'm going to walk you out of this apartment just the way you are. You're not going to collect any of your belongings. You are just going to walk out and I'm going to slam the door on you. Do you understand? If you pull anything, I'll knock you out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I'll knock you the eff out. Do you understand? Do you understand? And then he says, come on, get up, get the F up. And then you can hear them rustling around. She says, I'm sorry, multiple times. And he says, you don't understand. You don't understand, do you? Multiple times.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Während dieser Zeit hat sie sich mit einem 28-jährigen lokalen Gold Coast Mann, Gable Tostey, zurück und forth gemesselt, via Tinder. Die beiden haben sich für sechs Tage gebeten, bevor sie endlich eine Date auf August 7. treffen. Einige ihrer Bewegungen haben sich auf CCTV-Fotografie befasst, also wenn ich kenne, dass ihre Bewerbungsvideo ihre Bewegungen aufruft, werde ich das auch betonen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann hörst du labertes Atmen von Marina und es ist mehr Rasseln. Und dann hörst du ihn sagen, lass es gehen. Du denkst, du kannst mich schießen und ich werde einfach runterfallen, wie in den Filmen. Lass es gehen, lass es gehen. Dann hörst du mehr labertes Atmen und es klingt, als würde sie für Luft atmen. Und dann, für ein bisschen, geht es ruhig. Dann, wiederum, sagt er, lass es gehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann klingelt etwas und es klingelt, dann ist es ruhig und plötzlich hört man Warina aus. Sie sagt dann nein, nein, nein, nein, nein, mehrere Male. Gable fragt, wer der F du denkst du bist und sie schreit weiter nein. Und er sagt, du willst mich töten, oder? Warum hast du versucht, mich mit dem zu treffen, oder? Und dann sagt er, schütte deine schmutzige Mund. Und dann schreit sie weiter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Nein, nein, nein, nein, nein. Gable sagt, es ist alles auf dem Rekord. Du weißt, dass alles auf dem Rekord ist. Dann hörst du den Geräusch einer Tür, die sich öffnet. Und dann die geschlossene Tür, die sich öffnet. Und sie sagt wieder und wieder, lass mich einfach nach Hause gehen. Lass mich einfach nach Hause gehen. Und er sagte, ich würde, aber du bist eine schlechte Frau.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann hörst du ihn die Tür schließen und es locken. Klar klingt das wie der Punkt, wo sie draußen auf dem Balkon ist. Und dann hörst du sie schreien, nein, wieder, bis ihr Schreien mehr feint wird. und dann ist es komplett sauber. Das ist der Moment, an dem sie aus dem Balkon fällt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich werde die Rekorde dieser Interaktion auswählen, von ihr ausruhen, schreien Nein, ihm diese störenden Dinge zu ihr zu sagen und dann sie aus dem Balkon zu fallen. Also, wenn du das nicht hören willst, schiebe dich um eine Minute und eine halbe vorwärts. Ich werde dir beweisen, dass diese ganze Sache sehr, sehr schwierig zu hören ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
No!
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Also, am August 7, um 8.45 Uhr treffen sie sich am Cavill Mall in Surfers Paradise. Bei diesem Zeitpunkt trägt Gable ein schwarzes T-Shirt und leichte Denim-Jeans. Danach sind die beiden in den Surfer's Paradise Tavern Biergarten auf Cavill Avenue gegangen. Kurz danach sind sie an einem lokalen Konvenienten-Store geblieben und haben sich ein 6-Pack Bier gekauft.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Throughout this entire interaction, she screamed no 30 times. But this is not where the recording ends. After this, after she fell, it goes silent. And then you can hear Gable calling someone who turns out to be his lawyer, Bill Potts. But the call goes to voicemail and after this, you can hear more heavy breathing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
And then you can hear him walking around, looking for his keys and then getting dressed. Du hörst ihn dann aus seinem Wohnzimmer gehen und dann in den Elevator gehen. Um 2.49 Uhr nimmt er Fotos von den Fotos, die er mit Warina gemacht hat, und dann stellt er zwei Telefonanrufe zu ihr.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann hörst du ihn draußen laufen und um 3.10 Uhr, wie wir von vorher wissen, hat er das Stück Supreme Pizza bestellt und dann hörst du ihn es essen. Um 3.23 Uhr ruft Gable seinen Vater an, der antwortet. Er sagt, He continues by saying, His dad asks him where he is and then Gable tells him that he's at his apartment. Gable then says,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I like tackled her on my floor inside the building and I never forced her over the balcony. His dad said, I'm sure you wouldn't. And then he says, he'll come and get him. Gable goes on to say, I don't know what the F happened. This is crazy. This is effed up. This is so effed up. I swear to God, I didn't push her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I just chucked her out on the balcony and locked the door because she was beating me up. Then his dad said again that he would come get him and Gable continues giving him directions as to where he is. This conversation continues for a few minutes before Gable realizes that he has Warrenas phone in his pocket.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
After that, he continues talking to his dad about the situation and he says, it's her phone. Yeah, dad, like what happened was we were drinking and we got into bed together.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
kept like I don't know she was beating me up she thought it was funny or something and I just like tackled her in the middle of my apartment and I said that it wasn't funny anymore and blah blah blah then when I let her go the last thing I remember was she was on the balcony and I don't know if she jumped or what I don't know it wasn't my fault it wasn't my goddamn fault
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Nachdem das, hört man nur mehr kleine Gespräche und dann fragt Gable seinen Vater, wann er da sein wird. Um 3.47 Uhr hört man Gable in den Auto kommen und seinen Seelenkopf anziehen. Sein Vater sagte, das Einzige, was wir tun können, ist, seinen Arbeiter Bill Potts zu ringen. You can't do anything else but that. But you need to do it straight away, really. Can you find his number?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Gable says he understands. And then his dad asks if he wants to go to the hospital. And Gable says no. Gable goes on to say, F it. I wish I had cameras in my unit. I tried to call her phone. And then Gables dad says, Don't try to call her phone. und dann sagt er seinem Vater, dass er versucht hat, es zu rufen und dann ging es nur weiter mit voicemail.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann versucht Gable, Warrinas Handy wieder zu rufen und sein Vater fragt ihn, warum er das tut und er sagt, er weiß es nicht. Um 3.51 Uhr sagt Gable, warum passiert mir das immer? Ich habe nicht dafür gefragt, ich habe nichts falsch gemacht, ich habe die Frau einfach übernommen. The more she drank. And then his dad sort of interrupted him and his dad said, Was she jealous or something?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Um 8.58 Uhr fuhren sie zurück zu Gabels Wohnung, wo er in der Avalon Apartment-Bildung wohnte, nur ein paar Kilometer von der Bar. Sie fuhren nach seinem 14. Flur-Apartment durch den Elevator. Nachdem sie in Gabels Wohnung kamen, spielten die beiden Musik, chatten und tranken Gabels Homebrew-Vodka. Durch die Nacht hatte Verena ihre Schwester getextet, um ihr zu wissen, wie der Tag ging.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
And Gable said, Me and her had sex and it was like, The more she drank, the more violent she became for some reason. His dad said, Did she want a serious relationship or something? And Gable says, No, she was like, I know Mai Tai, bla bla bla, I'll beat you up for fun, rah rah rah. And I was like tolerating it for a bit and I went, yeah, stop it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The last thing I remember was I tried holding her down and she ran out onto my balcony. I just hoped I imagined it. Then by 3.51 a.m. Gable calls Warrina's phone again and then he goes on to say, I might have locked her out on the balcony because like there is a lock. I can't remember what I did, but I absolutely did not throw her off of my balcony. I would never do something like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
His dad said once again that they just need to ring up their lawyer, Bill Potts.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann in addition to this recording, as we know, CCTV-Footage caught Gable leaving the apartment. The footage actually showed that after Warina's fall, Gable war in der Abteilungslobby, als die Polizei kam, aber er hatte sich eigentlich hinter einem Polizisten versteckt, um nicht zu sehen zu können.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann, wie wir wissen, ging er um und wanderte für etwa 45 Minuten, bevor sein Vater ihn aufgenommen hat. So, nach dem Hören dieser Audioaufnahmen und dem Sehen der CCTV-Fotos, Police initially believed that Gable became aggressive and he killed Warina by pushing her off of the balcony.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So, by August 15th, 2014 at 10.40 am, police showed up to Gables parents home in the gated community in Gold Coast and he was arrested on charges of murder. After this came out, of course, Gable maintained his innocence and he said that he did not push her therefore he is not criminally responsible for her death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
However, police would ultimately come out and say that even if Gable didn't physically push her off of the balcony, if she died after running onto the balcony to try to get away from Gable, then he still could be charged with murder. There was actually one case that they pointed to for precedent in this case, which supported this murder conviction. Sie bemerkten die 1986-Fälle von Kelly Healy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
In diesem Fall hatte ihre Freundin, Kim Royale, während Kelly einen Schlaf verbracht. Er hat die Tür geöffnet, kam in den Schlaf und begann, sie zu zocken. Offensichtlich versuchte sie, wegzukommen, um seinen Verbrechen zu vermeiden, und sie hat das getan, indem sie auf seinen 6-Floh-Balkon ging.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
However, she ended up falling off of the balcony, a drop over 20 meters, and she did die from her injuries. In this case, even though he didn't physically push her off, he was still found guilty and convicted of murder because she died as a direct result So, because of this, the prosecution in Gables' case felt confident that they had a case against him, even if Gable didn't physically push her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie war wirklich aufgeregt, weil sie dachte, dass Gable genau wie Sam Winchester aus dem Show Supernatural aussieht. Als sie sich verabschiedeten, hielten sich die beiden zusammen. Und an einem Punkt haben die beiden Selfies zusammen gemacht und Warren hat sie auf ihrer Facebook-Page gepostet. Aber wie wir später herausfinden, Das Date ging ziemlich schnell schlecht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Gable stood in front of a judge at his bail hearing in November of 2014, and he was granted bail, and he was let out. But he was ordered to stay with his parents, Und unter diesen Bedingungen war er nicht erlaubt, Alkohol zu trinken oder Tinder zu benutzen, als er vor dem Trial erwartet wurde. Er wurde auch geordert, um zu kümmern.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Als er vor dem Trial erwartet wurde, hat er keine Medieninterviews gemacht und hat sich für die größte Teilen seiner Stille gehalten. Jedoch, etwa eine Woche nach Warinas Fall, hat er sich wieder an die Bodybuilding-Forum eingeladen und gesagt hat, dass er sich versichert hat, nicht in die Details zu gehen, aber alles, was ich sagen soll, ist, dass ich diese Frau absolut nicht verursachen musste,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann, am 10. Dezember 2014, postete Gable einen Brief an den Forum, in dem er wieder einmal beantwortet hat, was er sagt, was passiert ist. and he professed his innocence. Now, pretty soon after this letter was written and posted, it was actually removed and it was kept away from the public for two years until after the trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So, he wrote this letter before trial, but people didn't know about it in the public until after the trial. But to sort of stick to a continuous timeline, I will read the letter now. Before I read it though, I want to say that some of the biggest things that the public had issues with Gabels Verhältnisse nach Warrens Fall waren. Warum ging er in die Feuerwehr? Warum rief er die Polizei nicht an?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Warum schlug er sich von der Polizei aus, als sie zuerst kamen? Warum ging er um die Straße um eine Pizza zu holen? Und warum war er so ruhig und sammelt nach all dem? Es ist ein bisschen ein langer Brief, aber ich werde es dir jetzt lesen. In the letter Gable wrote, quote, I think it's time I spoke out about the events that happened over the last few months.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Those aware will know that I'm referring to the tragic death of Warina Wright. So far I've been silent about the entire thing which has left my hands tied while so many misconceptions and untruths are being circulated in the media and in the public. This has been extraordinarily difficult and I've grown to believe that my silence may have done more harm than good. So, now you can hear it from me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
First off, let me say that the death of Marina was the most tragic and distressing event that I have ever experienced. Knowing I was the last person to be with her, it has left me permanently scarred and not a day passes that I don't wish I could go back in time and prevent it. Ich habe nie gedacht, dass ich so etwas erleben würde. Nor did I have any idea how much it would affect me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Even though I had only known her for a night, I was horrified that this happened to her. I would never wish for it to happen to anybody. While I have not had the chance to meet or speak with Rowena's family, it pains me to think of the loss and suffering that they must be experiencing. My night with Rowena was intended to be relaxed and fun.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Die beiden, die in diesen Wohnungen unter Gable lebten, sagten, dass sie in den frühen Morgenstunden, jetzt im August 8, angefangen haben, zu hören, was ausgedrückte und dann schreiende Geräusche aus dem Wohnzimmer vor ihnen kamen. Sie gingen also auf ihren Balkon und sahen, was vor ihnen war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
She was on holidays and we decided to meet up for drinks after matching and chatting on Tinder. At first we got along great, but as the night continued, her behavior became strange and she became increasingly aggressive. I'm not sure whether she found it amusing, but it was getting out of hand. She kept hitting me, taunting me, throwing my stuff around and trashing my apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
For the last couple of hours with her, most of my efforts were spent trying to placate her in hope that she would calm down. I have always been happy to have girls stay overnight, but eventually her behavior became too overbearing and I decided that I wanted her to leave. I tried to make her leave, but instead of leaving, she grabbed a nearby metal object and tried to swing it at me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
This is where the alleged choking sounds began. I never deliberately choked her or put my hands around her neck. All I did was try to remove the weapon from her. If I wanted to choke her out, then it probably wouldn't have been hard, but I did not do so, as I did not want to hurt her. A less forgiving man could quite conceivably exercise less restraint and retaliated violently.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I did what I did to prevent further physical conflict and de-escalate the situation as best I could. Then in the recording, Gable was heard calling Marina a bad girl, which obviously people found disturbing. To this he said, the bad girl comment was me frustratingly trying to tell her that I already tried to make her leave in response to her claiming that she wanted to go home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
In the heat of the moment and given the fact that I had been drinking all night, eloquence was not my first priority. The struggle took place about two to three meters away from the rear glass doors that led to my balcony. My front door was about 10 meters away and has an automatic closer and locked Das hätte ich dann flicken und dann öffnen müssen, während ich sie ausdrücken wollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Das wäre viel schwieriger gewesen und wäre nicht wirklich eine Option gewesen. Sie draußen zu stellen hätte bedeutet, dass ich sie von mir entfernen könnte und sie durch die Glasdächer halten würde, bis sie sich entzündet oder ich jemanden wie die Sicherheit oder die Polizei anrufen würde, um sie wegzunehmen. In meiner wildesten Vorstellung erwartete ich nie, was als nächstes passieren würde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
After shutting the door, I turned my back and retreated and literally about 10 seconds later when I turned around and looked through the glass, I only briefly for a fraction of a second saw Warina on the other side of the railing before she disappeared out of view. She never tried to get back in, bang on the door or even cry out to me or anyone else. Ja.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I quickly realized that I would be extremely foolish to go back out on that balcony in case she had indeed fallen and someone saw me standing near the edge. When I reached the lobby and I saw flashing emergency lights coming from outside, at this point it dawned on me that something serious had happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
When they looked up, they saw that there was a woman who was standing on the concrete ledge on the outside of the railing of the balcony. So what I mean by that is that there was the balcony and then there's the glass ledge and then she was standing on the outside of that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
i was terrified exhausted intoxicated and quite disoriented and all i wanted to do was get advice i knew if i walked into police i could have been held under suspicion without legal representation a situation nobody wants to be in i resorted to leaving the building and calling my dad it's easy for readers to say what they would have done in hindsight but it's impossible to know how you would react if you weren't there
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The only sensible thing I could think to do at that time was call my lawyer who would know what to do. Of course, the call didn't go through. I did not flee the scene as it has been claimed. I went downstairs to see if I could find out what happened. While I was waiting to meet my dad, I bought a slice of pizza to curb my hunger and anxiety.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
It was the most convenient thing I could find at that hour. Anyone familiar with the area will know that there are pizza venues that sell slices over the counter on every corner. The suggestion that I was casually or leisurely indulged in a meal is absolutely outrageous. I was anything but casual.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I had to eat because I was hungry, anxious and intoxicated and a slice of pizza was the easiest meal that I could find. As soon as I was able to obtain legal advice and representation, I presented myself to the police who examined me later that day. I didn't go home. I didn't sleep. I didn't even shower until that evening when I was released.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
That night, the police seized my phone and my parents' phones where they found the recording. While I did not expect them to seize it, it is completely untrue that I tried to delete it as it proved what happened. Then he addressed why he made this audio recording in the first place. I regularly made audio recordings of my drunk nights on the town in case something happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I kept them for myself, but I didn't need to listen to them 99% of the time. It's so easy to do so using a smartphone and it comes at such a small cost and sometimes these recordings have been invaluable.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I have had minor encounters with the law in the past, including throwing an egg at someone, being involved in a small homemade fake ID racket among me and my friends when we were 18, and a few drunk driving incidences. I'm not defending these actions, but they were not of a malicious nature and I am currently undergoing treatment for my binge drinking issues.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
It has been reported that I supposedly assaulted and abused a police officer early in the year. also a fabrication. The charge was obstruct police and public nuisance for failing to withdraw $10 quickly enough to pay for a rickshaw. I actually had my phone recording during this incident too. Currently, I'm living at my parents' home, settling in.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The couple said that they saw a foot dangling down and it looked like she was trying to climb down, but then she quickly stiffened up and went back to standing on the ledge. As this was happening by 2.20 a.m., they heard the female, who sounded absolutely terrified, repeatedly shouting, ''No, no, no, no, no.'' Und dann, Sekunden später, sahen sie jemanden, der vom Balkon gefallen ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Everything has changed profoundly and I have a long road ahead of me. I know my lawyers might crucify me for writing this, but I feel that I need to speak out as I had no voice so far and have sustained so much abuse having my hands tied.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
As he awaited his murder trial, he pled guilty to these other charges from the drunk driving incident that we discussed earlier, where he had been caught driving upwards of 200 kilometers per hour. Und dafür hat er sechs Monate im Gefängnis verbracht. Die Trial für Mörder begann also im Oktober 2016 an der Brisbane Supreme Court. Und wiederum blieb Gable nicht schuldig für diese Angelegenheiten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Der Berichterstatter war Glenn Cash. Und die Berichterstattung argumentierte, dass Gable nicht unbedingt Waring aus dem Balkon drückte, aber er hat sie bedroht und enttäuscht, bis sie fühlte, dass ihre einzige Wahl war, über den Balkon zu steigen, um ihn zu verletzen. and in doing so, she fell to her death. Thus, this is the reason that Gable is responsible for her death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The jury was told to consider manslaughter or murder when hearing the evidence. Gable was represented by Nick Doerr and Saul Holt. The defense claimed that Warina made her own decision by climbing over the ledge to a certain death als sie über das Balkonrailing steckte. Sie argumentierten, dass Warina gerade oder versuchte, Gable mit einem Metallklang aus einem Teleskop zu schießen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und in diesem Moment, als er aus Selbstverdienung gearbeitet hat, sie auf den Balkon zu drücken, sagte er, dass ihre Entscheidung, über den Balkon zu steigen, nicht rational war und es mit jedem bemerkenswerten Gefahr unabhängig war. So first Gable's neighbors had come forward to talk about what they had heard and seen that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Wie wir vorhin gehört haben, waren diese Nachbarn um 2 Uhr aufgewacht, um zu weinen, zu stürzen und zu schreien. Sie haben darüber gesprochen, wie sie ihre Beine gedrängt haben, sie dann kurz aufgestockt haben und dann fiel sie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Der Nachbar beschrieb, dass er absolute Schmerzen in ihren Augen sah, als sie fiel, und das ist etwas, das er nie aus seinem Kopf bekommen wird, was offensichtlich verständlich ist. Dann hörten die Jury die drei Stunden von dieser Nacht aus. Die Rekorde wurde in mehrere Tage apartiert. Und natürlich haben sie darüber gesprochen, was sie gehört haben, als sie durchgingen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie hörten, dass Warina so viel Alkohol trinkt, dass sie erraten konnte. Sie haben auch gehört, wie Objekte umgebracht wurden und wie sie Gabel verletzt haben. Er kann gehört werden, dass sie sich mehrere Male entschleunigt hat und sie stoppt, ihn zu verletzen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann können wir hören, wie sie aus dem Ausdruck auszutreten, zu argumentieren und frustriert zu werden, sich zu entschleunigen und wieder zu lachen. Und sie tun das ein paar Mal durch die Nacht. Er wird dann ein paar Mal gehört, dass sie fragt, ob sie nach Hause will oder ob sie schlafen will. Dann gibt es eine Zeit, in der er sie zu schlafen fragt und sagt, nicht zu gehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann kann man hören, dass er sich immer frustrierter macht, bis es zu einem fehlenden Argument wird, bis es eskaliert und sie auf den Balkon geschoben wird, bevor sie wegfällt. Dann haben wir gehört, was Gable in Bezug auf seine Aktionen nach ihrem Fall gesagt hat. Er sagte, dass er in einem Zustand von Schock und Angst war. Er hat über seine Probleme mit Alkohol gesprochen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und wie wir vorhin gesehen haben, hat er in der Vergangenheit Posten gemacht, wie er Probleme mit Freunden hatte. und dann wie wir darüber gesprochen haben, dass er mit so vielen Frauen schläft, weil er manchmal unsicher war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Während des Trial kam ein Psychiater namens Dr. Ian Curtis tatsächlich heraus, um zu beurteilen, dass Gable eine, Quote, «partially disabled person» ist, die eine bedingte Fähigkeit hat, mit anderen Menschen emotional zu verbinden. Er sagte, dass Gable wahrscheinlich Asperger-Syndrom hat, das ist ein Begriff, der nicht mehr wirklich genutzt wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Also, das Paar sieht den Fuß nach unten fallen und dann wieder nach oben steigen und dann hört man die Frau schreien, nein, und dann fallen sie. All das geschah in literally Sekunden. Um 2.23 Uhr hat Triple Zero einen Anruf bekommen, um dies zu berichten, aber... Gable ist nicht derjenige, der angerufen hat. Es war die Frau, die beobachtete, als jemand aus dem Apartment über ihr fiel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Im Grunde sagt er, dass er eine eher kleinere Form des Autismus-Spektrums-Verhältnisses hat. Er hat gesagt, dass Gable als eine soziale, emotionale Verleumdungsperson ist. Er hat gesagt, dass es fast unmöglich ist, mit ihm eine klare Beziehung zu schaffen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er hat gesagt, dass Gable keine normale soziale Lebensweise hat und er hat einen schwierigen Zeitraum, sich zu den Verhalten anderer Menschen seiner Art zu adaptieren. Ein weiterer Arzt, Dr. Derek Matthew, He said that Gable has been observed to be of above average intelligence from a very young age, but he struggles with behavioral problems that come in part as a result of his autism diagnosis.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
He said that Gable is marked with obsessive, compulsive and anxiety features and he used this to explain why Gable reacted the way that he did. Why he appeared so unemotional, why he didn't respond to things like a normal person should. Dann hörten die Jury das Testimony von dem medizinischen Bewerber, Dr. Diane Little, der war derjenige, der die Autopsie von Warina durchgeführt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Nun, die Verwaltung argumentierte, dass Gable Warina getötet hat. Es gibt Momente im Audio, die klingeln, schreien und was klingt wie eine Begeisterung. Also, wenn sie getötet wurde, bevor sie auf den Balkon geschoben wurde, könnte das bedeuten, dass sie wirklich Angst vor ihrem Leben hatte. Dr. Little fand also, dass es Beweise von roten Marken auf Warinas Nacken gab,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Das könnte beweisen, dass sie gesträngelt wurde. Aber sie sagte, es könnte auch die Position sein, in der Warrens Körper war, nachdem sie fiel. Sie bezeichnete die Marken als schlecht definierte rote Marken, die nicht unbedingt mit einer anderen Person zu einer manuellen Strängelung verbunden sind, weil es keine Beweise von anderen Muskeln oder Böden gab.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Wiederum denkt sie, dass es möglich ist, dass diese Marken nicht durch Strängelung verursacht wurden, aber durch die Positionierung ihres Körpers, nachdem sie gefällt hat. Aber nach dem Cross-Examination verabschiedete sich Dr. Little, dass es auch noch von ihm herrschte, dass er sie zerstörte. Die Verwaltung beantragte, dass Strängelung nicht immer Marken verlassen, besonders auf der Außenwelt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dr. Little verabschiedete sich, dass es möglich war, dass ihm die Strängelung für die Geräusche von Gasseln und Gurgeln heard in this recording. She said that there is a way that you can restrain someone in a way that causes restriction of blood flow, but it doesn't leave extensive injury. You can do this by using your forearm rather than your hands around someone's neck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
This is a tactic often used by police to restrain a suspect without actually injuring them. Dr. Little also spoke on the condition of the rest of her body. Sie wurde herausgefunden, dass sie über 80 Verletzungen durch ihren Fall hatte. Dr. Little sagte, dass ihre Verletzungen sehr stark waren. Überall über ihrem Körper. Und als sie gefallen war, hatte ihr Körper fast sich über sich hin gedreht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Warina wurde auch zu einem Blut-Alkohol-Niveau von 0,156 gefunden, während ihres Todes, das fast dreimal das legalen Fahrverhältnis ist. Die Jury sahen auch Bilder von Gables Verletzungen, die an dem Tag, an dem er verhaftet wurde, genommen wurden. Er beklagte, dass sie wiederum auf ihn geworfen hat und dass diese Abrasionen dadurch verursacht wurden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Also können wir deutlich sehen, dass Gable eine Abrasion an seinem Arm hat und dann noch eine Markierung auf seinem Bein. Er hatte auch ein paar kleine Schmerzen auf seinem Gesicht. Und zusätzlich sehen wir Bilder von seinem Wohnzimmer, das zeigt, dass Dinge übernommen und umgedreht wurden. Again, all of this supports that there was a struggle.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Als die Polizei kam, fanden sie eine Frau, die lebendig auf dem Boden lag. Sie ist 14 Flügel runtergefallen. Aber an dieser Zeit hatte sie keine Art von Identifikation auf sie, also wusste niemand, wer sie war oder was ihr passiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
But the question here is, was that, was the struggle enough to say that Warina had attacked Gable to the point that he needed to defend himself and push her on the balcony? Or was it enough to say that he strangled her? So with this, the prosecution argued that Gable used excessive force in restraining Warina.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
He said that Gable intended to cause her grievous bodily harm by restricting her breathing, possibly with his forearm. Er argumentierte, dass Warina kleine, dekorative Steine an Gable gedrängt hat, die ihn nicht verletzt haben. Es hat ihn wirklich nur immer mehr verärgert. Dies hat einen gewaltigen Strang erzeugt, wo er sie auf den Boden zurückgelegt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie argumentierten, dass Gable nicht geplant war, Warina zu töten, als er sie auf den Balkon schlug, aber er hätte vorgesehen, was passiert wäre. Therefore, this is an unlawful killing. That being said, the main thing that the prosecution had to prove at that time was that Gable strangled her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Because in order to prove that he meant to cause her great bodily harm, enough for her to fear for her life, they had to prove that he used excessive force when trying to restrain her. Now, it is legal for someone to use some amount of force if the situation calls for it, such as, trying to remove a violent or disorderly person from your property. You can use a reasonable amount of force.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So, if he had restrained her without using excessive force to get her out of his apartment because she was acting a bit erratically and disorderly, that is fine. But if he intended on causing her bodily harm... Das ist ein unrechtliches Gesetz. Die Verteidigung kam zurück und beurteilte die Beurteilung der Ernährung von Warinas Angriffen auf Gable.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie argumentierten, dass er, nachdem sie erneut auf ihn aufgerissen und ihn getötet hat, sie auf den Boden gezogen hat, aus Frustration und um sie zu verhindern, ihn zu verletzen. Er sagte, dass er sie verletzt hat und sie einfach aus seinem Haus ausgerufen hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The defense then played the part of the audio recording where Gable says, I'm going to walk you out of this apartment just the way you are. You're not going to collect any of your belongings. If you try to pull anything, I'll knock you out. I'll knock you the F out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The defense said that it was at this point that Warina had grabbed that metal clamp from the telescope and then tried hitting him with it. der ihm einen großen körperlichen Schaden verursacht hat. Die Verteidigung beantragte, dass Gaple eine vernünftige Kraft verwendet hat, um Warina zu verhindern und die Situation zu deeskalieren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber als die Polizei andere Wohnungen rund um das Gebäude beantwortet hat, begannen mehr und mehr Leute zu beraten, dass sie Geräusche und Argumente gehört haben, die von Gables Wohnung kamen, nur Minuten bevor sie fiel. Also ging die Polizei zu Gables Wohnung, um mit ihm zu sprechen, aber er war nicht da. Stattdessen hat er das Wohnzimmer verlassen, durch den Feuerabschluss herunter zu gehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie beantragten, dass er die Aktionen einer intoxizierten Frau nicht vorsehen konnte, die sich auf seinem Balkon ausgestiegen haben. Am Ende hieß die Verwaltung, dass Warinas Aktionen auf dem Balkon ausgestiegen sind, völlig irrational. Und sie sagten, es sei etwas, das man nur tun würde, wenn man sich für seine Leben fürchtet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
The defense said that yes, Warinas actions were irrational, but it's not because Gable was threatening her. They used this time to point to old scars that were found on Warinas arms and legs, und sie sagten, dass dies Selbstschmerzen waren, also sagten sie, dass es klar war, dass Warina eine mentale Unstabilität war, die irrationale Entscheidungen macht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Nach den Schlussfolgerungen sagte der Gericht, dass sie mehrere Faktoren nachdenken müssen, wenn sie entscheiden, ob Gable verurteilt oder verurteilt wird. Der Gericht sagte dem Gericht, dass Gable verurteilt werden könnte, wenn er unbedeutende physische Kraft verwendet hätte und ob er die Tatsache hatte, dass sie die Tatsache verursacht hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Der Gericht hat auch gesagt, dass Gables Tatsachen nach ihrer Verletzung, z.B. ihn, die Szene zu verlassen und Pizza zu bestellen, nicht relevant waren, ob er schuldig war oder nicht. Denn wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, war das Publikum über diese Tatsachen überrascht und sie sahen sie als Zeichen von Schuld.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber diese Aktionen sind völlig legal, also was wichtig ist, sind die Aktionen, die zu Maureenas Tod führen. Also, nach fünf und einem halben Tagen von Beweis und Testimitierung hörten sie, dass sechs Männer und sechs Frauen in Versuchung geraten sind. Sie haben in erster Linie für sechs Stunden und durch die ganze Zeit
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
They repeatedly asked questions for clarifications on different elements of the case as well as legislation. However, the jury came back to the judge and said that they could not find an agreement. But instead of ending the trial in a hung jury, the judge told them to go back. und versuchen, eine Verdikt zu erreichen. Sie haben drei Tage lang deliberiert.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber bevor sie mit ihrer Verdikt zurückgekommen sind, kam es tatsächlich heraus, dass einer der Anwesenden Instagram-Anwendungen hatte, während des Trial. Sie hatte tatsächlich Kupfen Kaffee auf ihrem Instagram gepostet, um ihren Followern zu erzählen, dass sie ein Anwesender auf Gables Trial war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
An diesem Punkt war das ganze Gericht eine Medienfreundschaft, also war es offensichtlich ein Problem, mit ihren Followern darüber zu sprechen. Saul Holt beantragte tatsächlich eine Missverwaltung, indem er auf Social Media postete, dass seine Posten einer der Gerichtsordnungen verurteilt wurden, auf dem Gericht mit Außerirdischen zu sprechen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber die Verwaltung sagte, dass diese Posten nicht gegen die Regeln gingen, sie gaben keine Informationen oder ihre Follower weren't influencing her decision. The judge denied the defense's request, stating, Unfortunate though it is that she had put this material on a public website, it does not lead to the impression that a fair trial for the defendant has been jeopardized.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I will add that other members of the jury didn't even know about these posts or any of the issues that they caused, so it didn't affect anything on that end. But either way, after three days of deliberation, the jury told the judge that they had reached a unanimous verdict. Sie fanden Gable Tostey nicht schuldig, auf beiden Bezüge von Mord und Mord.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Als das Verdikt ausgesprochen wurde, zeigte Gable keine Emotionen, außer nur, dass er seine Hände knallte. Als er in die Geräte ging, war natürlich die Medien, um ihn Fragen zu stellen. But he remained silent and let his lawyer do the talking for him. His lawyer said, Mr. Toste is very happy with the result.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
He is relieved that this matter is now behind him and he is looking forward to moving on with his life. He thanks all the people who have supported him through this. He realizes just how tragic this has been for many people. An dieser Stelle freue ich mich einfach nur darauf, es hinter ihm zu legen und seinen Zukunft zu überlegen. Vielen Dank."
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
An dieser Zeit war er in verschiedenen Kleidung, als er in seine Wohnzimmer-Bildung vor der Nacht gesehen wurde. An dieser Zeit war er in einem T-Shirt und Jeans. Ich habe ein Video davon irgendwo gesehen, also wenn ich es nicht in dieses Video reinlege, habe ich es verloren. Ich kann das Überwachungsvideo nirgendwo finden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Als Rorinas Familie das Gerichtsgebäude verlassen hat, hat die Familienvorsitzende die Medien für Privatsache gefragt. Sie hat gesagt, dass die Familie einfach nur in Frieden und Frieden bei Hause in Neuseeland griechen möchte. Sie hat gesagt, dass das eine unglaublich traumhafte Situation für alle, die in diesem Fall involviert sind. Let alone the families that have been impacted by this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Maureena Wright's family are still coming to terms with the loss of their daughter and their sister, as well as enduring the anguish of being present here at this trial for the last two weeks. After the trial, Gable has been said to continue to be arrogant and emotionless. He continued to maintain his silence for the most part until he actually did an interview with 60 Minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Once again, he is seen as being unemotional and he's talking about the situation without much remorse. Viele der Fragen, die sie in diesem 60-Minuten-Segment gestellt haben, sind Dinge, die wir bereits in diesem Video besprochen haben. Ich werde also nicht das gesamte 60-Minuten-Interview durchführen, weil viele der Dinge, die bereits angesprochen wurden, habe ich bereits angesprochen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Es wäre also nur redundant und repetitiv an diesem Punkt. Aber es gibt einige Dinge, die wir in diesem Interview besprochen haben, die vorher nicht angesprochen wurden. Er beginnt mit dem Fall, in dem sie wieder und wieder über und über und wieder schreit Nein, bis sie es 33-mal sagt. Obviously a struggle is heard in that moment and she starts begging him to go home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
First he said that when she originally started screaming, this was after she had grabbed that telescope clamp and that is when he tried to remove it from her and that is when he said she started screaming. Again, one of the biggest questions in this case was Warum hat er nicht einfach die vordere Tür ausgelöst, da er viel größer ist als sie und er hat die ganze Kontrolle über sie?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und wir haben das eben vorhin beantwortet, aber er hat im Grunde gesagt, dass man nicht wirklich denken kann, was man im Hinterkopf gemacht hätte. Dann hat er wieder einmal gesagt, dass der Grund dafür, dass er sie nicht aus dem Balkon folgte, als er sah, dass sie nicht mehr da war, war, weil er sie nicht hören konnte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Wiederum hat er darüber gesprochen, wie er nicht auf den Balkon ging, um sie nach unten zu schauen, weil... He was afraid that people would see him and assume that he pushed her. When the interviewer said that this makes him look like an unempathetic and uncaring person, Gable said that at that point, there was nothing else that he could do. If she fell, she fell.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
And there was no way that he could save her. Throughout the interview, I can definitely see why people think that he's unemotional and uncaring, but you can also see how uncomfortable he is. Obviously, it's been several years since the incident, so he's more stoic when talking about it, so... Nehmt das mit, was ihr wollt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Das 60-Minuten-Interview wird unten verlinkt, wenn ihr wollt, dass ihr seht, wie er über sein Körper spricht. Ich denke nicht, dass ich das 60-Minuten-Interview in diesem Video einschalten kann, weil ich mir sicher bin, dass das kopiert wird. Am Ende des Tages, wenn ich mir diesen Fall anschaue, glaube ich, dass es so nach wie vor beschrieben wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich wollte es sehen, ob ich es wieder finden kann, aber ich konnte es nicht an diesem Punkt. Aber wenn ich es während des Editions finde, dann werde ich auch diese Fotos einladen. So, nachdem er seine Wohnung verlassen hatte, ging Gable rund um die Straße für ungefähr 43 Minuten, bis um 3.10 Uhr, als Gable zu einem Pizza-Platz auf Calville Avenue ging und ein Stück Supreme-Pizza bestellt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich denke, dass er wirklich frustriert war und sie auf den Balkon gebracht hat und sie versucht hat, wegzukommen, indem sie runterkommt. Ich denke, in diesem Moment hatte er seine eigene Selbstversorgung im Kopf. Er wusste, dass er dafür verurteilt werden könnte, sodass seine Aktionen danach, denke ich, das reflektieren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich denke nicht, dass es bedeutet, dass er maliös gegen sie gefühlt hat oder dass es bedeutet, dass er sie töten wollte. aber es zeigt, welche Art von Person er am Ende des Tages ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich denke, er sagt viele Dinge über ihn instinktuell, wie wenn er wegfährt und nicht will, dass er über die Ecke schaut, aber ich fühle mich, als würden normale Menschen instinktuell über die Ecke schauen, um sicherzustellen, dass diese Person okay ist. Egal, ich stimme dazu, dass er nicht für Mord verhaftet worden sein sollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich denke, dass er und Morina beide wahrscheinlich sehr intoxiziert waren. Ich denke, dass sie vielleicht witzig auf ihn schlug und Dinge an ihn zog, ohne zu erkennen, dass sie ihn tatsächlich verletzt hat. Ich denke nicht, dass sie ihm auch Schaden verursachen wollte, aber ich denke, dass sie ihm wie ein Spiel verletzt hat und sie hat ihn viel schwieriger verletzt, als sie dachte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Also versuche ich nicht, diesen Aspekt darzustellen. Offensichtlich sollten die Leute nicht miteinander verletzt werden. Sie sollte ihn nicht verletzt haben, nachdem er sie aufhören musste. Aber ich denke, sie war sehr intoxiziert und ich denke nicht, dass sie genau erkannt hat, wie stark sie war, wie er sagte. oder wie hart sie ihn verletzt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich denke, dass Gable, so unbelebt, wie er sich gezeigt hat zu sein, ich denke, dass er die Nacht lang versucht hat, ihre Heimat sicher zu bekommen. Wir hören ihn, dass er sie verlassen soll, dass er ihre Heimat verlassen wird und dass sie dort schlafen kann, aber Und wenn du trank bist und frustriert bist, dann tust du nicht immer so aus wie dein normales Selbst.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich denke, dass Warina an einem Punkt versuchen wollte zu gehen, aber ich denke, dass sie sehr frustriert war, dass sie ihr Handy oder andere persönliche Belohnungen nicht finden konnte. Und ich denke, dass sie an diesem Punkt Gable verurteilt hat. Ich denke, dass es eine ganze Kombination von vielen Dingen gab, die ihr etwas erratisch gemacht haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und ich denke, dass Gable wirklich, wirklich frustriert wurde. I think he pushed her out on the balcony in a moment of rage and frustration, but I don't think he meant to kill her. Now, the basic definition of manslaughter is that your actions caused another person's death without intending to and without forethought.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So obviously we know the example of someone getting behind the wheel of a car, drunk driving and hitting someone. But let's use another example. So let's say you are drunk or you're under the influence of drugs and you still choose to get behind the wheel and drive intoxicated.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Then let's say you swerve so bad into the road or onto the sidewalk that someone feels that they have to jump out of the way. And then let's say in that moment the person jumping out of the way to avoid being hit by you, they are hit by another car. So you didn't mean to kill them. You didn't even hit them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
aber du bist der Grund dafür, dass sie im ersten Moment aus dem Weg geflogen wurden, weil sie von jemand anderem getroffen wurden. In diesem Moment kannst du immer noch verantwortlich sein für die Todeserfahrung. Deine Aktionen, dich zu intoxizieren, dich hinter einem Auto zu schießen und dann fast jemanden zu schießen, So I think this is a very similar situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Gable reacted in a way that without forethought and without intent caused Marina to climb off of the balcony and fall to her death. He knew that she was asking to go home. He knew that she was belligerently drunk, as he stated many times throughout the recording. So I think the argument that he had to have made her fear for her life necessarily...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er saß dort, um seine Pizza zu essen, als er Polizisten und Lichter sahen, die Straßen vor seinem Wohnzimmer. Nachdem das, kam sein Vater, um ihn zu holen, und er ging weg. Wir werden mehr über seine richtigen Bewegungen und was sich mit dieser ganzen Sache in nur ein paar Minuten verbreitet. Egal wie, als Warinas Familie über ihr Tod herausgefunden hat, waren sie offensichtlich enttäuscht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Das funktioniert nicht in dieser Situation, weil ich glaube nicht, dass sie für ihr Leben gefeuert hat, aber ich glaube immer noch, dass seine Aktionen ihr Tod verursachten. Also, das kann in Australien anders sein. Ich komme aus den USA, also ist das nur meine Meinung. Aber ich glaube, dass Gables Aktionen direkt zu Warrens Tod führen. Ich denke also, dass er von Mord verurteilt werden konnte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Wenn es eine Situation gewesen wäre, in der sie vielleicht kämpfen und argumentieren hätten und Gable Worena ausgesprochen hätte, dass sie aus dem Balkon gehen würde und sie auf den Boden unter ihr aufsteigen würde, und wenn sie so fiel, wäre Gable nicht verantwortlich gewesen. Aber ich glaube, in dem Moment, in dem er sie ausgedrückt hat, hat er die Tür geschlossen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und in dem Moment wollte Worena so schlecht nach Hause und sie dachte nicht, dass es einen anderen Weg nach Hause gäbe. So that is why she tried to climb down. So she wanted to go home. She was belligerently drunk and she was on the balcony. She did not think that there was any other way to go about it
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
so she climbed so the distinction for me is that he physically pushed her out and then locked the door after she said that she wanted to go home so she didn't necessarily fear for her life but in that moment she could have thought that climbing down was her only option so obviously i think this Das hätte viel besser gelaufen können. Ich denke nicht, dass es so enden sollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Es musste nicht enden und es sollte definitiv nicht so ausgelaufen sein, wie es war. Es ist einfach alles so unfreundlich für Warina und ihre Familie. Nach dem Trial scheint es sich, dass Gable hauptsächlich zurückging zu seinen alten Wegen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er hat seinen Namen zu Eric Thomas gewechselt und obwohl er gesagt hat, dass er nicht mit so vielen Mädchen verbunden ist, wie er es gewohnt hat und an einem Punkt gesagt hat, dass er nicht wieder auf Tinder zurückkehren wird, hat er wieder auf Tinder zurückgekommen und er trifft noch immer Mädchen online und geht für Verbindungen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Nicht, dass das ein Problem ist, aber für Gable ist es klar, dass es ein Problem ist. He has also been involved in some controversies. In 2018, a girl had apparently matched with him on Tinder and then posted it on social media saying, when you match with Gable Tosty.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
And he did not like this, so he screenshotted it and posted it on Facebook with the caption, when a hoe claims she matched with you just to get attention, gets roasted, then deletes her post.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann hat er einen anderen Post gemacht in Reaktion zu einer jungen Frau, die dieses Jahr Headlines gemacht hatte, als sie darüber sprach, wie sie diesen Mann konfrontiert hat, der sie während eines New Year's Eve Musikfestivals verabschiedet hatte. Sie war in typischer Festivaleinstellung, mit Glitter und Kristallen, um ihre Brüste mit sparklernden Stiefeln zu bewegen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dazu schrieb Gable auf Facebook, zu sagen, But at the same time, cue the outrage, can anyone honestly tell me that this girl wasn't expecting attention by going to a public festival full of crowds of intoxicated people, wearing nothing but glitter on her tits?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
I personally don't have a problem with the way that she wasn't dressed, but I honestly think she was out looking for a fight, because what she did to the guy after wasn't simply self-defense, it was also assault. I think it would only be fair if both the guy as well as glitter tits were charged with the assault.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Hallo alle, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück auf meinem Kanal. Oder wenn ihr neu hier seid, willkommen auf meinem Kanal. Der Fall, den ich für euch heute habe, ist einer, den ich weiß, dass viele Leute unterschiedliche Meinungen darüber haben, aber ich freue mich wirklich darauf, zu hören, was alle über diesen Fall denken.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So clearly, to me, that says that he still has the same view of women, that they are less than him, that they're just objects. Because what can you expect when you wear something revealing in a public place too? You're wearing something revealing in a public place and you expect not to be sexually assaulted? That's just crazy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Sie war nur zwei Tage nach ihrem Tod zu Hause, also jetzt, anstatt zu erwarten, dass sie nach Hause kommt und sich erfreut, sie zu sehen, wurden sie plötzlich mit dem Wunsch, ein Feierabend zu planen und eine Untersuchung durchzuführen. Sie haben den Medien gebeten, um zu helfen, herauszufinden, was passiert ist und um Antworten auf diese unhörbare Tragödie zu bekommen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Clearly he's not the brightest bulb if he already knows that he is all the scrutiny for what happened to Warina and he still chooses to make posts like this. I was also able to find his Facebook and he recently wrote another post saying, LOL at the woman going on a sex strike in protest of the abortion changes in America.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
In anderen Worten, praktizieren sie Abstände, genau wie die Pro-Lifers das schon immer wollten. Klar, er hat nicht gelernt von dem, was passiert ist, und er verfolgt jeden Gedanken von sich selbst auf einem öffentlichen Online-Forum, um alle zu sehen. Für mich scheint es so zu sein, dass er weiter Dinge verfolgt, die kontrovers sind, weil er die Aufmerksamkeit mag.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Andererseits, zumindest in meiner Meinung, Er würde nicht solche Statistiken posten, die für das Publikum gesetzt werden. Du kannst einfach auf sein Facebook gehen und fast alles wird für das Publikum gesetzt. Du musst also nicht mit ihm Freunde sein, um die Dinge zu sehen, die er postet. Ich denke also, dass er die Aufmerksamkeit liebt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Egal wie, ich hoffe, dass er zumindest genug bekannt ist in der Gegend, dass Mädchen wissen, dass sie mit ihm nicht zusammenkommen. Er wird viel Spaß gemacht, wenn Leute ihn auf Tinder sehen. Sie posten Dinge wie, ich hoffe, er hat noch keinen Balkon und solche Sachen. Es scheint, dass die Leute wissen, was er getan hat, oder was er verurteilt hat, oder die Situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich glaube, ich werde nicht sagen, was er getan hat. Leute wissen, was passiert ist, also am Ende des Tages hoffe ich nur, dass das nicht mit jemand anderem passiert. Ich hoffe, dass er zumindest etwas daraus gelernt hat, obwohl es scheint, dass er es nicht getan hat. Hoffentlich hat er es getan, aber das ist alles, was ich dazu sagen kann. Also das ist alles, was ich für heute im Fall habe.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich weiß, dass es viel war. Ich weiß, dass es viel zu übergehen gab, aber ich wollte es nicht übergehen, damit alle ihre Schlussfolgerungen finden können, wenn sie alles wissen, was in diesem Fall passiert ist. I'm really looking forward to hearing what everybody's thoughts are on this very complicated case. Do you think that Gable should have been convicted on murder charges?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Do you think he should have been convicted on manslaughter charges? Or do you think the jury came to the right conclusion? Lasst uns über das und eure anderen Gedanken in den Kommentaren diskutieren. Aber das ist, wo ich das Video beenden werde. Wenn euch dieses Video gefallen hat, dann lasst das Video einen Daumen nach oben und abonniert meinen Kanal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Ich veröffentliche neue Verbrechen- und Geheimdienste-Videos jede Woche. Vergesst nicht, den Notifikationsknopf anzuschalten, damit ihr keine weiteren Videos verpasst. Don't forget to follow me on Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please send those suggestions over to my email at rachelshannoncases at gmail.com.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
With that, I hope you guys have a great week. Stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope to see you next time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Nun war es Zeit, die Polizei zu untersuchen und offiziell herauszufinden, wer dieser Gable Tosty war und wie diese ganze Situation stattfand. Nun, wie gesagt, als die Polizei originalerweise zu Gables Wohnung kam, um ihn zu beantworten, war er nicht zu Hause. At that point, technically, they didn't know who lived there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
But it wasn't long before they figured out that the man who actually lived in that apartment was Gable Tosty. So, by the next morning after Warren's death, police had arrived to Gables' parents' house where he had spent the night and took him in for questioning. He arrived to the police station with his lawyer present and he maintained his right to remain silent almost the entire time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Turns out, Gable was no stranger to police. Back in 2004, Gable and two friends had been caught selling fake IDs for 60 bucks each, making upwards of $30,000 from the entire scheme. For this, they were charged with aggravated forgery and they were given probation and they were made to complete community service. Er hatte auch mehrere Anrufe mit den Polizisten in 2011.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er wurde nach dem Anrufen in den zukünftigen Verkehr gesehen. Der Breathlizer fand, dass er einen Alkohol-Niveau von 0,185 hatte, fast zweimal der legalen Grenze. Dann, im Juli 2014, nur eine Woche und eine halbe bevor er Warina kennengelernt hat, wurde er 150 km pro Stunde auf der Straße gefahren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Als die Polizei ihn gefangen hat und begann, ihn zu folgen und die Lichter aufzunehmen, ging er mit dem Pedal zum Metall und begann, 200 km pro Stunde in eine Runde zu fahren. Er wurde nur aufgehört, als die Spiken geflogen wurden, was ihn gezwungen hat, zu stoppen. Und an dieser Zeit wurde er verhaftet und er blieb eine 0,2.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er wurde auch in der Gemeinschaft bekannt, aber nicht für einen guten Grund. Er wurde aus zwei verschiedenen Nachtclubs in der Surfer's Paradise-Bereich für seine Verhältnisse ausgewählt. Ein Bouncer sagte, dass Gable wirklich schrecklich war. Dann hat Palace einen Online-Bodybuilding-Forum gefunden, den Gable bis 2004 veröffentlicht hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
In diesem Zeitpunkt hat er einfach nur gearbeitet, seine Diät zu strukturieren, um eine perfekte Physik zu schaffen. Und er hat sich sehr darauf konzentriert, Muskeln zu bauen und hübsch zu sehen. Also, die meisten seiner ersten Posts fragen sich über Dinge wie Fettbrennungs-Supplemente. Und einige fragen sich, wie man eine diätfreie Diät kreieren kann.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Aber bevor wir dazu kommen, muss ich ein besonderes Dankeschön an meine Patronen Sosha, Ahmad, Steve, Becky, Afnan, Gemma und Fatima sagen. eurer Unterstützung bedeutet wirklich so viel für mich. Ich wäre definitiv nicht da, wo ich heute bin, ohne eure Unterstützung. Also für das, von der Mitte meines Herzens, danke ich euch so, so sehr für eure Unterstützung.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
However, in later years, by 2010, he started making other posts asking for advice on how to make friends. He saw himself as a loner who had a hard time talking to new people. In one form he wrote, quote, It's difficult to actually make friends without knowing people already, since eventually I have to reveal that I am in fact a hermit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann, das selbe Jahr, hat er angefangen zu schreiben, wie er sich über Frauen traurig fühlte und nicht wirklich wusste, wie man sexuelle Begegnungen mit ihnen initiieren kann, weil er damals nicht so viel Erfahrung mit ihnen hatte. Aber nur eine Woche nach diesem Post, hat er geschrieben, wie er anfing, einen aggressiveren Ansatz zu nehmen, um den Deal in einer Nacht zu beenden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So, er hat das immer mehr und mehr oft gemacht. Er hat mehr oft in Klubs gegangen, Frauen trinken gekauft und sie zu seinem Zuhause zu bitten, um mit ihnen zu schlafen. Only to find another one the day after. Months passed and by December of 2010 he had posted once again saying that he had finally reached a body count of 50 women slept with.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
He went on to say that he only really sleeps with women that he rates a 7 out of 10 or higher. obwohl er gesagt hat, dass die meisten der Frauen, mit denen er mitkommt, mindestens 8,5 sind. Jedes Mal, wenn er mit einer Frau schläft, mit der er weniger wert ist, hat er gesagt, dass sie nicht wert ist, darüber zu sprechen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er hat in einem Postbuch geschrieben, dass er zwei Mädchen heute Abend verabschiedet hat. Der erste war eine 4 aus 10, nicht wert zu erwähnen, sah nicht wie ihre Pics aus und ich konnte es nicht beenden. Er hat auch gesagt, dass ein Bodycount von 50 nichts für ihn ist. Er will 100 Frauen erreichen, um
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dann passen zwei Jahre und im Juni 2012 hat er endlich die hundertste Frau getroffen, also hat er wieder einmal auf dem Bodybuilder Forum geschrieben, dass er einen Mann fragt, der nur 100 Mädchen mitgemacht hat und mit dem er etwas deprimiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Während, wie man erwarten kann, die meisten der Antworten auf diesen Post sind von Leuten, die Hinweise haben, wie man mit so vielen Mädchen anfangen kann. Eine Post schrieb tatsächlich, dass Männer, die mit so vielen Frauen schlafen, typisch unsicher sind, hohe Selbstvertrauen haben und oft narzisstisch sind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So, zu dieser Antwort schrieb er zurück, Eigentlich hast du mich an etwas Pathetisches erkannt. Einer der Hauptgründe, warum ich mit verschiedenen Mädchen schlafen versuche, so oft wie möglich, ist, um meine eigene Selbstvertrauen zu verbessern. Ich hatte viel Schwierigkeiten, Freunde als Kind zu halten, und ich war nie sehr populär. Das war lange hervorragend, aber die Gefühle liegen immer noch.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Wir sehen also diese Seite von ihm, wo er sagt, dass er manchmal mit so vielen Frauen schläft, weil er auf der Innenseite ziemlich unsicher fühlt. Aber als er Tinder im April 2013 entdeckte, war er überrascht. Wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, wurde er damals von einigen Bouncern genannt, und er wurde von einigen anderen Abendclubs verabschiedet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Also, natürlich hat er Tinder gedownloadet, um ein paar Frauen zu finden, die er für einen Abendstand nach Hause bringen könnte. Aber er wurde wirklich frustriert, als er bemerkte, dass die meisten Frauen tatsächlich auf diesen Apps sind, weil sie jemanden zum Date finden wollen. Im September 2013 schrieb er wieder auf seinem Bodybuilding-Forum,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
By 2014 he started to write about how he's getting more and more frustrated with women turning down his advances. In one post he said that there was this girl who wouldn't sleep with him Even after kissing and making out with him. He said that she even went into his bedroom with him, but then refused to sleep with him, even though, you know, she kind of let him on. So what could he have thought?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
So, mit dem gesagt, gehen wir einfach direkt in das Video. Heute werden wir über die Todesgeschichte von Warina Wright diskutieren. Warina Wright war nur 26 Jahre alt, als ihr Leben auf dem 8. August 2014 abrupt beendet wurde. Sie wurde in den Philippinen geboren zu ihrer Mutter Marisa Beth und ihrem Vater Warren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
He said that the obvious logical next step after kissing and making out ist, mit ihnen zu schlafen. Zusammen mit diesem Post auf dem Forum hat er auch ein Bild von dieser Frau gepostet. In einem anderen Post im Juni 2014 hat er ein anderes Post geschrieben, über das, wie er eine Frau nach Hause gebracht hat, die sechs Jahre jünger als er war. Er hat darüber gesprochen, wie sie sehr klein war
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Und als er sie geschluckt hat, hat er sie aufgeholt und sie von dem Balkon reingemacht. Aber an dieser Zeit hat sie sich überrascht und hat gesagt, dass sie mit ihren Eltern nach Hause gehen musste und sie ist weg. Natürlich hat das ihn verärgert. Also hat er in einem anderen Post geschrieben, Quote, Very interesting choice of language there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
In anderen Posten hat er auch angefangen zu schreiben, wie er viel trinken lief, weil es seine soziale Angst entschädigte. Deswegen alle Zeiten, in denen er unter Influenz gefangen wurde und warum er immer wieder den selben Fehler gemacht hat. Er hat geschrieben, dass er manchmal so viel trinken liebt, dass er vergessen würde, was passiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Dies ist etwas, worüber wir später im Video noch viel mehr sprechen werden. Kurz bevor er mit Warina verbunden war, hat er auf der Webseite veröffentlicht, dass er eine Körperzahl von über 150 Frauen erreicht hatte. Also zeigt das natürlich alles, wie er sich um Frauen gefühlt hat, wie er sie behandelt hat und wie er sich für sie beteiligt fühlt, wenn sie mit ihm schlafen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TINDER DATE ENDS IN DEATH: Did Gable Tostee KILL Warriena Wright??
Er hat nie eine Geschichte von Gewalt gehabt. Er hat nie von Frauen berichtet, die gesagt haben, dass er sie getroffen hat oder sie verabschiedet hat. Was bedeutet das für die Nacht, an der Warina gestorben ist? Als die Polizei ihre Untersuchung fortsetzte, bekamen sie Gables Handy und fanden heraus, dass Gable die gesamte Interaktion zwischen ihm und Warina gedreht hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Hello everyone. My name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you guys today is a very recent case, and there's not a lot of information out there about this case. And it's been said that there is a lot of misinformation about this case and rumors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
and they were talking about making plans for Christie's birthday, which was that upcoming week. Kaylee told her mom that she was going to be taking her out for breakfast, lunch, and dinner all on her. She was really excited to celebrate her mother's birthday with her and make it a very special day for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Then, just a few hours before the murders, Kaylee sent her mother a text message with a picture of her and her roommates. Now, of course, with these repeated calls to Jack just after the students got home and around the same time that it's possible that these murders took place, obviously, police looked into Jack.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Police basically said that they can't be certain that he isn't involved, but as far as what I have seen, it doesn't seem like they're really going down that avenue anymore. Kaylee's family also said that they stand behind Jack 100% and they do not believe that he's involved. They had been dating for a few years up to that point.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They had a dog together and then they had just recently broken up and it was said that this was a very amicable breakup between the two of them and that the two remained friends and that there was no bad blood between them. Kaylee's family has said that they will continue to stand behind him because he too is grieving alongside the family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Christie said, quote, Now, at this point, there are no suspects. Obviously, there's no arrests and there's no real motive identified here. but police have said that they have ruled several people out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Those who are ruled out include a man who was seen interacting with Kaylee and Maddie at the food truck that night, the man who gave Kaylee and Maddie a ride home that night, and then the two roommates who were home during the attack, and then the friend who the roommates called over the next morning when they found that one of their roommates had been passed out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
and then they also ruled out Kaylee's ex-boyfriend, Jack. Initially, after these attacks, police came out and said that they don't believe there's any imminent danger to the community at large. However, three days after the killings, police chief James Fry said that they actually can't be sure that there's no threat to the community.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Some of the professors on campus have even said that they think that classes should go back to being remote for the remainder of the semester to keep the students safe. So now I'm going to tell you a little bit about each of the four victims in this case. 21-year-old Kaylee Gonsalves was from Rathdrum, Idaho. She had been set to graduate a semester early in December of that year.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Police say that they consider these murders a crime of passion, but they cannot say for sure. They're also not sure whether the person has fled or if they're still in the area. The one report from police that has been consistent throughout all of this is that they do believe this was a targeted attack.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Police have also said that they followed up on over a thousand tips, interviewed over 150 people, and collected over a hundred pieces of evidence. but we don't know where this has led investigators to this point. They haven't publicly identified any persons of interest or any suspects at this time. So that's pretty much all of the information that we know on this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I know this was a much shorter video than I'm used to putting out and that you guys are used to watching, But I wanted to make sure that I put all of this information out in one place in a way that's easily digestible and a timeline that makes sense for you guys instead of seeing like, you know, different tweets about it and trying to put together the information yourself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I hope that I was able to put all of this information together in a way that makes sense to you guys because I know that I've been trying to follow this case. I've been seeing a lot of tweets about it. seeing articles here and there about it, but some of it doesn't really make sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
And then I've heard a lot of the families saying that, you know, with this lack of information that police are providing, there are rumors that are being spread. So I just wanted to make sure that I get this information out there so that it's all in one place and that hopefully it's as accurate as possible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
And hopefully we can weed out all of the information that's rumors or not true to put out exactly what we need to know about this case. to try to get more eyes on it, and to try to get this case solved as quickly as possible. As of right now, we don't know where investigators are in terms of finding suspects or how close they are to solving this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I just wanted to spread awareness on this case, and of course, as I will with any recent case, I will be keeping you all updated on any information that comes out about this case in the coming weeks.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I personally do think that this could be the case of a targeted attack because of the fact that this intruder walked right past these two roommates who were sleeping on the first floor and they went upstairs and attacked the roommates who were on the higher floors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Not to sound vulgar or anything, but it would have been a lot easier to take care of the first two roommates who were on the first floor rather than going all the way upstairs and risk being caught by the two other roommates who were sleeping in their rooms. So that makes me think that this definitely was a targeted attack against these four individuals.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
But I don't really know how they could have been targeted or why. Because again, it didn't seem like the four of them really did everything together that night. It seemed that Ethan and Zana and Maddie and Kaylee were doing separate things that night. before the four of them eventually returned home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
So I don't know if somebody, you know, followed Kaylee and Madison or Zana and Ethan home, saw that there were two others that were awake in the house and so this person just decided to kill all four of them and maybe they didn't even know about the two roommates sleeping in their rooms on the first floor. Honestly, I have no idea.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I think it's very lucky that they slept through all of this because I genuinely think if they woke up during this and tried to do something about it, that their lives would be at risk too. So I don't think the two roommates are involved. I think it's very possible that especially if they were drinking, they were just in their rooms. I sleep with earplugs in personally.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
So, you know, we don't really know. Maybe someone sleeps with the TV on. So I think it's definitely possible that they could have slept through it. Again, police have ruled them out so I don't want to speculate about them but I honestly don't know what would make someone want to kill four people all in one go and not kill the other people that were in the house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
After graduating, Kaylee planned on moving to Austin, Texas with one of her close friends, Jordan. Kaylee had actually secured a job already at a marketing firm in Texas, and she was so excited to move away from her home state and explore more of the country. Jordan went on to say that Kaylee just wanted an adventure.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
So once again, I do think this was a targeted attack but I have no idea how they identified these four individuals as the people that this person wanted to kill so... I don't want to speculate too much further. I don't want to cause any harm in this case. I do just want to spread awareness about the case, about each person and who they were and try to get this case solved as quickly as possible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
This truly is one of the more horrific crimes that I've seen in a very, very long time. So I'm just hoping to get more eyes on this case and I'm hoping that by putting the information together in this way, makes it make a lot more sense for everybody who watches this video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Hopefully, if anybody lives in the area or goes to that university, maybe seeing their stories and having it all in one place will jog someone's memory if they remember something or encourage someone to come forward if they do know something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I want to remind all of you that when it comes to a murder investigation, any information can be useful information, even if you think that something that you know is totally insignificant. and won't make a difference in the case, it might actually be exactly what the case needed to be solved.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
It might be that tiny little puzzle piece that the case needed to just connect everything together and to make the bigger picture. So please, if you have any information related to this case, please email tipline at ci.moscow.id.us online.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
or call 208-883-7180 so that is all of the information that i have for today's video this is one of those cases where i am very confident that we will get answers within the coming months if not you know within a year I do think this case will have a lot of updates because of how recent it is. So if I hear anything, if I learn anything, you guys will be the first to know.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Make sure you keep up with my Twitter. That is where I post the information the quickest. So if you want to keep up to date on this case or any other case that I'm following, please make sure you go ahead and follow my Twitter because that is where all of that information will be. But either way, that is all I have for today's case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Don't forget to turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. As you can see, I don't always post on my normal Tuesdays, so sometimes I come out with an extra video here and there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
So make sure you have the notifications on so you don't miss out on any of my videos. Make sure you go ahead and follow my Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure to send those suggestions over to my email at rachelshannoncases at gmail.com. With that, I hope you guys have an amazing week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Jordan said that she would suggest super last minute and spontaneous plans, but Kaylee was always down for the adventure. Kaylee had shared a dog with her ex who she was still friends with at the time. We will actually discuss more of her ex in just a few minutes. Kaylee was also in the Alpha Phi sorority and her little described her as quote, Kaylee was someone who was kind to everyone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope to see you next time. Bye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
So I just wanted to jump on here and cover this case and hopefully put things together in a way that makes sense in a timeline that's easy to understand and put forward any information that I think is the most credible and the most reliable so that we can hopefully find answers for these four murders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
She never failed to put a smile on any of our faces and she loved silly pranks, being around her friends and family, her dog Murphy, and traveling. She was always looking for an adventure, whether it was spontaneously booking a trip across the world or a quick road trip. Kaylee was the best big sister I could have asked for.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
She made me feel welcomed and loved when I first joined Alpha Phi and she was the reason I did. She had a contagious laugh. I could always go to her with anything I was struggling with. She made everyone feel included. She was determined like no other. She set her mind to something and had to have slash do it. She was loyal and never talked negatively about anyone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
To live like Kaylee would be the biggest accomplishment as she was the most determined and kind person I knew. She still is all these things and more though she may not be physically here, we know she is watching over all of us and we will miss her and cherish our memories with her every day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
We will continue fighting for justice for these four innocent angels as we know that that is what Kaylee would do. She was a fighter. As your sister, we look forward to seeing your smiling face again someday, Kaylee girl." 21-year-old Madison Mogan went by Maddie, and she was from Cora DeLane. She was majoring in marketing. Maddie's grandmother described that Maddie was always gentle and caring.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
She cared greatly for her long-term friendships and made sure to stay close with her family, including her extended family. Maddie had a boyfriend named Jake who said that she was so, so excited about graduating next year. He said that Maddie was a positive person who brought acts of kindness to others.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Her boyfriend said that he hoped people remembered her for her kindness and the love she showed and the generosity she gave to others. She was also someone who loved adventure and she too was excited to explore the world after graduation. Her boyfriend said, quote, There's no words that I can really describe her, how amazing she was, and how wonderful of a person she was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
20-year-old Zana Kernodle grew up in Idaho, but she spent some time in Arizona in the recent years, which is where her father lived. Her father described that Zana was someone who was never really worried about drama. She was just never really into that. She just liked having fun with her friends and was never really into materialistic things.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
She was always with her friends and just liked having a good time. She was a tough girl who was responsible. She had been helping out her boyfriend Ethan in his own studies, which really impressed her father. Then Ethan Chapin was from Conway, Washington. He was one of a set of triplets who he was really close with.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
It was said that on the day of November 12th, 2022, he spent the majority of his day with his siblings who are also students at the University of Idaho. His mom, Stacy, described him as being the life of the party. He made everyone laugh and he was just the kindest person that you could know. Now, all three girls, Madison, Kaylee, and Zana, all lived at a nearby off-campus residence in Moscow.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
In addition to these three roommates, they also had two additional roommates and the five of them lived in a three-floor, six-bedroom apartment and Ethan, who again was Zana's boyfriend, was visiting them at the time that this all took place.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
This video will cover the recent killings of the four students at the University of Idaho in Moscow, Idaho. The four students involved in this attack include 21-year-old Kaylee Gonsalves, 21-year-old Madison Mogan, 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, and 20-year-old Zanna Cronodal. So, a bit of background information.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Zana and Ethan had been dating for about a year at that point, give or take a couple of months according to her father, and Ethan also was a student at the University of Idaho. The six of these friends all seemed to be pretty close to one another.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
On Instagram, you see that Kaylee posted a picture of all six students together with the caption, one lucky gal to be surrounded by these people every day. It was said on the day of Saturday, November 12th this year, they all went to a football game that afternoon. Then later that night, Ethan and Zana went to a party on campus at the Sigma Chi fraternity at around 8 to 9 p.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I believe this was some sort of formal that they usually do at frats. I was never in a sorority or anything like that, but I know they hold formals and those kind of parties. It's not always just the kind of parties like a house party like you expect. the fraternity. Then Maddie and Kaylee, they went to a bar called the Corner Club at around 11 p.m. and they stayed there until around 1 30 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Then going into the early morning hours of the next day, so November 13th at around 1 41 a.m., Madison and Kaylee stopped at the late night food truck called Grub Truckers. This food truck had been doing a live stream to Twitch, so this live stream is what captured the girls at the truck and ordering their food.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They ordered about $10 worth of carbonara from the truck and they waited about 10 minutes for their food. As they waited, they could be seen chatting with one another as well as with other people surrounding the food truck. as they also waited for their food.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
The manager of the food truck is 26-year-old Joseph Woodall and he said that when he saw the two girls, they didn't seem to be in any sort of danger or distress or concern. After getting their food, Kaylee and Madison then returned back home. It was said that they got their ride home from a private party driver.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
It was originally reported that they used a rideshare service like Uber, but it was changed and is now being reported as a private party driver. So I'm not exactly sure what that means, but that is what's being reported. Then at some point, Ethan and Zana also returned back home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
It was said that the two of them returned home at around 1.45 a.m., but I wasn't able to find any more information about where they went, if anywhere, after this frat party. So I don't know if they spent their entire night at the frat house and they were just hanging out there or if they went to local bars after that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
I thought I saw in one source that they did go to a local bar after this party, but I could be wrong. I think I saw it somewhere. I tried finding it to confirm it and I couldn't find it again. So I could totally be off. So all we know is they went to this frat party at 8 to 9 p.m. And then they returned home at around 1.45 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
These four students were all students who went to the University of Idaho, like I said, and lived in a college town called Moscow. Moscow has a population of around 25,000 people and before these four murders, there had not been any murders recorded in Moscow for more than seven years. So, students on campus said that they felt very safe around the campus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
And I'm not exactly sure where they went, if anywhere, between that time. Then a neighbor's security camera captured Kaylee and Madison returning home at 1.56 a.m. Then on the morning of Sunday, November 13th, One of the roommates on the first floor called another friend asking them to come over after they found one of their roommates on the second floor.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They said that this person had passed out and they weren't waking up. Once this friend arrived at the apartment just before noon, someone who lived in the house called 911 to report that their roommate was not waking up. We don't really know anymore about the 911 call.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
This is all that's been reported, that it was one of the roommates at the house that called and it was just before noon and that it was said that all they saw was that their one roommate was not waking up and they just looked like they were passed out. When police arrived, of course, they went into each one of the six bedrooms that they had in the apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
now like i said this was a three floor apartment with two rooms on each floor the two roommates who lived on the bottom floor were the ones that noticed that one of their roommates on the second floor had been passed out then the two remaining roommates lived on the third floor of the apartment so police went around the apartment looking in all of the different rooms
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
And that is when they found that four victims had been brutally stabbed to death. These four, of course, include Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin, and Zana Kernodle. So that means that the person who killed these four other roommates had snuck past the two roommates on the first floor. And the two roommates who lived on the first floor, they didn't wake up during any of this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They didn't report that they heard any sort of noises. They didn't hear anybody come in. They didn't hear anything suspicious the entire night and they had no idea that their friends had been stabbed to death until that next morning when the police arrived. The police came out and said that these two roommates were out of town on Saturday.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They were out of town separately doing their own things, you know, with their own families or whatever. and then each of them returned back to the home at around 1 a.m. on the 13th, just before the other four roommates returned home from their night out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
All four bodies were obviously sent to the medical examiner for an autopsy, and it appeared that each of the four victims had been stabbed with a large knife. However, investigators were not able to find the murder weapon at the scene. They also found that there was no signs of forced entry into the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
It was said that this was sort of a party house that a lot of people had access to, so there was a lot of people coming in and out all of the time. So I'm sure that's gonna make it a lot more difficult to get DNA and to we know, you know, who was supposed to be here, who wasn't. Was this perpetrator here at one of the parties?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Are these fingerprints, you know, the person who did this or someone who was just here because they were attending a party at this house?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They felt safe walking around at night or leaving their bikes unlocked around campus. However, these murders have shaken up the entire college community. Many who live around campus said that they left the campus and went home for Thanksgiving early because they're afraid that there's still a killer loose on the campus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Now, one of the doors to the home has a keypad that requires an access code in order to unlock the door and access the home. So, it is possible that someone who had previously been there, who knew the access code, just used the access code and got in that way.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Kaylee's sister admitted that they weren't the most private with the access codes, so it is possible that this code was shared with the wrong person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
the house also does have a sliding glass door so that also could have been used to access the home the police are not quite sure at this point where this person gained entry or how and like i said there was no murder weapon found within the home so they have yet to find out what the murder weapon exactly was it is thought to be a big knife but they don't know you know the specifics of this knife and they also don't know where it is so
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
They haven't found it at the home, so it's assumed that the attacker took it with them and who knows where it could be at this point. Police said that it appeared as if at least one victim tried to fight off their attacker, who they believe was Zana. However, it's possible that all of them tried to fight off their attacker.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
None of them showed obvious signs of sexual assault and toxicology reports have yet to be completed. and it was said that they think that all four victims were asleep when they were murdered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Now, people have said that Zana fighting off the attacker the most out of anybody shows that she has a lot of fight in her, and I do agree with that, but I also think that it could mean that, you know, because her boyfriend was over, they most likely were sleeping in the same room in the same bed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
So to me that says that the attacker probably went after Ethan first and then woke Zana up and it kind of gave her enough time to like come to and figure out what was happening and then try to fight back with the attacker and obviously she did end up being murdered and overpowered by this person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
But I think the fact that she did fight off the attacker the most out of anybody, I think that that shows that she was woken up before she was stabbed versus everybody else was initially attacked when they were still asleep. So that is the background information of the events leading up to the murders and then obviously the murders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Now I want to discuss what the police have said in the aftermath and what the investigation has found this far. So first, it showed that in the early morning hours of November 13th, Kaylee had made seven phone calls to her former longtime boyfriend, Jack DeCour, who is also a U of Idaho student, all of these calls went unanswered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
The first call to Jack from Kaylee was made at 2.26 a.m., so about an hour after they were seen at the food truck. Then there are six more calls over the course of 26 minutes from 2.26 a.m. to 2.44 a.m., And then there was a final unanswered call at 2.52 a.m. Then it was shown that Madison had actually called the same number that morning, so to Kaylee's ex-boyfriend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
Others said that they're taking a lot more safety precautions, such as walking only in groups around campus and not going out after dark. A coffee shop on campus said that they've also changed their hours so that all of their employees are off before dark so that they can get home before dark.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO KILLINGS: What we Know so Far
There were three calls made from Maddie to Jack. The first phone call was at 2.44am and then her last phone call to him was also at 2.52am. Kaylee's mother, Christy, also came out to say that she spoke with Kaylee on that Saturday, so November 12th. The two spoke on the phone one time during that day at around 3pm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What Happened to Karlie Guse? // Appeared on the Dr. Phil Show // True Crime Mystery
Hey guys, my name is Rachel and welcome to my channel. So the case that we are going to be going over today is a pretty recent one and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What Happened to Karlie Guse? // Appeared on the Dr. Phil Show // True Crime Mystery
And this was last year's picture.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you guys today is a case that involves the murder of a young woman that is absolutely just so senseless. and the hunt for her killer turned into an international one and what resulted after that is definitely pretty interesting. Let's get into today's case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Several hours after this, he is seen leaving the house once again, this time carrying luggage and driving away. Now, when they entered the home, they found several things that sort of put together a story of what could have happened that night. First, they found that Orlando had written what looked to them to be a suicide note that was written in Spanish.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Translated, it reads, Now, Orlando had passed away for a couple of years by that point, so it intended that Orlando had planned on taking his own life, according to this note. In the basement, they found that there had been four hooks nailed to the top of a doorway with a tie hanging from it. Then below the hooks, there looked to be spots of blood on the floor as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She made everything fun. She was silly and goofy and jumped around and had dance parties. but she was also a hard worker. She would study for tests for days and she would do well on them. Haley was described by her mother as a millennial hippie. She was a free spirit who trusted everyone and was kind to everyone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So investigators believed that these were signs that Orlando had attempted to take his own life by hanging himself, but that he fell and hurt himself. Then once he didn't end up taking his own life, he decided to flee.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
As this was happening, Orlando's roommate had also been searching for Orlando, so he actually ended up calling Orlando's sister, and that is when he found out that Orlando had boarded a flight and that he was headed back home to Nicaragua. Earlier that morning, he had texted his sister saying, "'I'm a disgrace to the family. I did something bad.'"
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So, police found surveillance video from JFK International Airport, which is around a three hours drive away from Brighamton University. On the surveillance video, it looks like Orlando has a bandage on his head, which is most likely from hitting his head after his failed suicide attempt. he hopped on a flight and he did make it to Nicaragua.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Once he got there, his mother picked him up from the airport and then she drove Orlando to the small town that he had grown up in, in the small town of Chinagiga. After a few days being there, it was a pretty small town, so there wasn't really a lot of people, there wasn't really much access to medical care, so his mother drove Orlando about an hour and a half south to the city of Leon,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
where he could get medical attentions for wounds that did appear to be self-inflicted. As this was all going on, obviously, news outlets all over the state of New York and all over the country were reporting on Haley's murder and how this fugitive was now on the run and was thought to have left the country.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So, it was only a few days after Orlando had arrived in Nicaragua that he was actually found and apprehended by the police It was thought that someone probably recognized him at the hospital that he was at and then called police to report it and they came and arrested him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
The day after he was found by police, they held a press conference where they told the world that they had found this missing fugitive. They put him in front of the world for everybody to see. He stood there with police with a big bandage on his forehead. So now police in the U.S. were wondering what happens from here. Now, Orlando did actually have dual citizenship between the U.S. and Nicaragua.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Because of this, Nicaragua had no obligation to extradite him back to the U.S., both countries had the right to hold him so Nicaragua kept him. For the year and a half that followed, Boone County officials were basically under the impression that they would eventually be able to get Orlando back to the U.S. to try him for the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
They were going back and forth with Nicaragua and trying to figure out what the next steps were going to be. It was actually decided that Nicaragua would not be returning Orlando back to the U.S., Instead, he would be tried in Nicaragua. Of course, this really concerned Boone County officials.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
When she started at Binghamton University, she had to work hard to be accepted into their nursing program, but she was accepted. It meant that she would have to be there for an extra year of school, but she didn't mind. She was really excited for her career. All Haley wanted to do was help people, which was evident by her career choice.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
They were wondering how this was going to work and they were hoping that he would get the jail time that he deserved, even if it wasn't in the U.S. In the U.S., he would have been charged with second-degree murder. However, in Nicaragua, he was actually being charged with femicide. In general, femicide is defined by murdering a woman or a girl specifically because she is female.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
However, in Nicaragua, it defines it by going further as saying a crime against a woman from someone who was in a relationship with her. So, because Haley had a relationship with Orlando, his crime fit the bill for femicide. Then, after going back and forth with their government processes, an agreement was made where U.S. officials and U.S. witnesses agreed
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
would be allowed to testify at the Nicaraguan trial via teleconferencing. This took place back in 2019 before COVID happened, so this was before it was normal to hold such serious events over the internet. So, this trial would be held with a Nicaraguan attorney, Nicaraguan judge, no jury, and everything would be up to Nicaraguan law.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So, Boone County officials had absolutely no control over how this trial was going to go. So they did whatever they could to make sure that they put forth every bit of evidence that they could via testifying and facilitating testimony from other witnesses. So the trial for Orlando started on October 1st, 2019. Haley's mother, Karen, she was able to testify via teleconferencing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She talked about how many times that she told her about Orlando's behavior of driving past the house, stalking her, harassing her, and Howie went on to slash her tires. She talked about how everybody warned Haley to stay away from him, but she was a kind and forgiving soul, so she didn't want him to lose everything over the tire incident, like I said earlier.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
But instead of returning this forgiveness, instead of being a kind and compassionate person back towards Haley, he literally took everything away from her, her friends, and her family. Karen went on to say that throughout her entire testimony, anytime she was able to get a glimpse of Orlando, he'd be sitting there smiling, looking really smug, without a care in the world for what he did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
The prosecution also called other witnesses, including Haley's friends and her boyfriend, Kevin, and all of them said much of the same thing. They also talked about the security video that they saw that showed a male and a female walking into the house, but only a male ever came out and this male is assumed to be Orlando.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
They talked about his apparent suicide note where he admitted that he had done something stupid that he didn't think he was capable of and that he was sorry. Then they brought forward the pathologist who performed the autopsy on Haley's body. The medical examiner stated that Haley died as a result of manual strangulation from pressure on her throat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She was an amazing student and got straight A's, and she was looking forward to her future career as a nurse. Now, while attending Binghamton University, Haley met another young man named Kevin. Kevin was also a nursing student and the two headed off very quickly and they quickly began a relationship. However, it seemed that Haley was more interested in having a casual relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
He said that based on his findings, Haley was most likely asleep when she had been strangled. So to me, that says that, you know, this wasn't in the heat of an argument. They weren't arguing and he lost control and strangled her. She was sound asleep and he looked at her just laying there asleep and and he made the decision to take her life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Then, after choking her to death while she was asleep, he just left, leaving and hopping on a flight back home like it was absolutely nothing. The prosecution argued that his motive for killing her was obviously jealousy, If he couldn't have her, then nobody could. So, the defense's job was made pretty difficult because of how much evidence there was. He clearly was the one who did kill her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So, rather than trying to argue that Orlando was innocent or that he wasn't the one who actually killed her, Instead, they said that Orlando's consumption of alcohol caused him to go into a temporary insanity, and because of that, he killed her. And because of his mental state, he is not legally responsible for his own actions.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
The defense called only one witness throughout the entire trial, and this witness was a clinical psychologist named Dr. Ronald Lopez Aguilar. He testified that Orlando told him that they had been heavily drinking that entire night. He said that after drinking, he doesn't remember anything that happened until he woke up the next morning and found her dead.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So what he's basically saying is that, you know, they were drinking a lot. He doesn't remember having any sort of argument. He doesn't even remember what he said to her or what they really did. just that they started drinking and then nothing, no memory of anything, and then he just woke up and she was dead in his bed next to him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
But the prosecution argued that there's pretty much no way to prove that. It's not like there was glasses lying around or bottles lying around the apartment, at least that I know of, to show that the two drank or did any sort of drugs that night. Usually in a case like this, you'd see like a wine bottle sitting out with half drink, you know, wine glasses or fully drink wine glasses, but you'd
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
could tell that they had just been drank and things like that, but there was no evidence of that. There was also nothing to show that he had any sort of mental disorder that could cause him to lose control over his actions. He had no sleep disorder, which could be argued that he was sleepwalking when this happened or something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
There was absolutely nothing to prove what the defense was trying to say. After both sides made their closing arguments, the judge decided to give Haley's mother, Karen, the last word. Karen said, quote, Haley was a beautiful, intelligent, and friendly girl. She was an aspiring nurse and she had her whole life to look forward to. She was and still is my best friend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So thank you for listening to me and letting me speak on behalf of my daughter. So like I said, with this trial, there was no jury. The decision was left solely up to the judge. So she told the court that she would deliberate over a brief recess and that she would come back shortly with her decision.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
This did surprise people because they thought that it would take much longer to deliberate, but it only took an hour and a half of deliberation before the judge came back with her decision. She came back and said that Orlando disposed of Haley simply because he could not accept the fact that she had control over herself and her own body.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She said that she does not stand for violence against women and that men just trying to exert themselves over women is just not going to fly, not in her courtroom. So at the end of the trial, the judge did find Orlando guilty of femicide. Karen was given another chance to address Orlando at the end of the trial. And she said, quote,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
I hope that you get the highest amount of years behind bars because you deserve even more than that. Two weeks later, Orlando had to be sentenced. The judge said that Orlando made the decision to punish Haley for rejecting him. So now she was going to punish him by handing him down the maximum sentence for the crime, which was 30 years.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
According to Kevin, she just wanted to live freely before committing to a long-term serious relationship. She had always had dreams of moving to California and getting a hippie van and just being out on the road and working as a travel nurse. At the time, Haley was also living with her two close friends, Josie and Mishila, in an off-campus apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Obviously, Haley's family says that this does not bring Haley back. but they are very happy with the sentencing. Obviously this entire trial being in another country is really nerve-wracking because you just don't know what to expect. You don't know if they're going to be more lenient. You don't know what kind of rules they have on sentencing. So I can see how that was so nerve-wracking.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
but they said that they are so thankful to see the level of passion that the court had for violence against women. Karen said at the end of the day she is happy that she worked with that judge and she's very happy to see that Orlando will be spending the maximum amount of time allowed behind bars. By February 4th of 2020, Orlando and his attorney stood in front of a judge once again
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
This time, they were requesting an appeal for his conviction as well as a new psychiatric evaluation. Now, he was continuing to speak with the excuse that he didn't remember what he did, but those around him just simply do not believe him. They said that especially with his nursing background and his medical knowledge, he knew exactly what he was doing when he began to strangle Haley.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
The request for a new evaluation was denied immediately, but Orlando's lawyer also argued that he was wrongly charged with femicide and that a 30-year sentence was far too harsh. They said that in the US he likely would have been charged with second degree murder and given a lighter sentence along with a better chance at parole. They said that because this crime took place in the US,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
that they are obligated to follow US guidelines. Now, I am genuinely surprised that the Nicaraguan government was allowed to try him for a murder that didn't even take place in their country. I'm sure that the country has their own rules, but I haven't really seen any reason for why they chose not to extradite him back to the US.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Like, I wonder why they wanted to take the time and the money to try someone for a crime that wasn't even committed in their country. However, I do wonder if Nicaraguan officials were so set on making an example out of a murderer against women that You know, they didn't want him to even get the chance to go back to the US and get a cushier jail cell or a lighter sentence. I genuinely don't know.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
If you guys know more about this, please let me know in the comments because I am really curious. But either way, after reviewing his request for about three weeks, a panel of three judges completely denied Orlando's appeal. He will not be resentenced and he will not be sent back to the US.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
In an article that I read about Nicaraguan prisons, it states that they're pretty much known for overcrowding, lack of safe drinking water, and lack of medical services. They said that the cells are five meters by five meters and that sometimes there's as many as 20 people in one cell. The cells are dirty and there's insects everywhere.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
They are given a bucket of water every day that they have to share with everybody else in their cell. And this water is used for cooking, cleaning, and drinking. They are given two small portions of food per day, mostly rice and beans. And if they want anything extra beyond that, they need to have loved ones bring it for them. So obviously, overall, as a whole, this is a problem.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
It's not okay that human beings are being exposed to such bad conditions, but part of me is happy with the irony of this entire thing. Orlando murdered a woman and he thought that fleeing to Nicaragua would get him out of trouble and completely put this entire thing behind him. Instead, it gave him a longer sentence, more public scrutiny, and worse prison conditions.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Now, in 2016, Kevin had thrown a party at his off-campus apartment, and of course, Haley attended the party. And this is where she met another young man named Orlando Tesero. He was also a nursing student born in Miami, Florida, but he grew up in Nicaragua.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
And now, if he ever does get out of the Nicaraguan prison and if he does ever go back to the U.S., they can just try him again for the same crime since it's not considered double jeopardy since the trial took place in another country.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So really, instead of facing the consequences for his actions like he should have, he was left with the worst possible case scenario for himself because he wanted to run away. And part of me really enjoys that fact.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
I think that that's a big lesson to him and a lot of other people that, you know, if you're going to do something, if you make a really big mistake like this, if you take someone else's life, you just need to face the consequences. You murdered somebody. You took their life away from them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
There's no world that you deserve anything else other than going to prison and never enjoying a day in your life ever again. And that's my opinion. And I think the fact that he was trying to run away from it, the fact that he was trying to run away from consequences for what he did, and he was met with even worse. I'm happy with that. I'll just put it there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
After the trial and the denial of his appeal, the Boone County District Attorney, Steve Cornwell, said, quote, America's legal system does not have a criminal charge like Nicaragua's femicide, but the protection it afforded Haley Anderson in this case was important.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Orlando Tercero, in a cold-blooded manner, choked the life out of a young woman who we believed was probably sleeping and had been drinking. It doesn't get any more sick and depraved than that. preying on somebody who's helpless and completely overpowered them with no chance at all. So I think he puts it pretty perfectly. He took her life away from her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
There was absolutely nothing that she could have done to defend herself because... she was sleeping. She was sleeping and obviously, you know, I don't know to the extent that either of them drank, but we do know that Haley at least did drink. We know that she had that wine night with the girl, so we know that she had alcohol in her system. Maybe they continued drinking. Maybe they were both drunk.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
It doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that Haley's life was taken from her and that she was so helpless. It's not even that she was helpless in the sense that she couldn't like overpower him, but she was literally sleeping and that is just terrifying to think about.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So obviously with all of this, Hailey's family is just left with a big gaping hole in their lives that can never be filled because Hailey was ripped away from them so senselessly and so suddenly. But they have said that they are thankful for how all of this went down and they're very happy to see that Orlando is behind bars and that his appeal was denied very quickly. And I agree.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
I'm so happy that Orlando got caught so quickly and I was so happy to see the level of passion that the court had in relation to violence against women. I'd wish to see more of that here in the US, but at the end of the day, Orlando is right where he belongs. His own actions led him to be in a prison system that seems a lot worse than the US prison system.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Orlando's family was relatively well off with his father being a physician, so it made sense that Orlando would follow in his footsteps into the medical field.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
And I know that there's a lot of problems with the US prison system, but it does seem that at least they have livable conditions in most prisons. I can't speak for all of them, but a lot of them do. Whereas Nicaraguan prison seemed to be pretty unlivable and pretty terrible. So he put himself there. His own actions led him there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
He genuinely didn't have to be there, but he went there on his own accord. So I don't feel bad for him at all.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
now haley had known orlando previously because they did have a couple of classes together but they never really grew an actual friendship until they chatted at kevin's party orlando was the type of guy who worked really hard during the week and then he would relax have some fun have some drinks and party on the weekends and that's pretty much exactly how haley lived her life
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Today, we are going to be discussing the murder of Haley Anderson. Haley Anderson was born May 9th, 1995 in Westbury, Long Island, New York to her parents Karen and Gordon Anderson. She had one younger sister named Maddie. At the time of her death, she had been a fifth-year senior at Binghamton University where she was going to school for a degree in nursing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
they were both very social they loved being with their friends and making new friends and they both were very good at making new friends and they were always the life of the party so the two got along very well after they became friends both haley and kevin would all hang out together with orlando
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
At the same time, Kevin was in a fraternity and he was trying to recruit people to join and he did ask Orlando to join his frat. Kevin also seemed to have a lot in common with Orlando. They were both Hispanic and they were the only two people in the fraternity that could speak Spanish, so it just seemed like it made sense that the two of them would be friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
However, as I stated before, Hailey and Kevin did have a bit of an on-again off-again type of relationship. So during one of their breaks, Hailey and Orlando hooked up a couple of times. But from the very beginning, those around Hailey said that she made it very, very clear to Orlando that she didn't want a serious relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She just wanted the type of thing where it would be casual and that they could hook up. They would still be friends and talk all the time, but that was it. It was not a serious exclusive relationship. According to Orlando's then roommate and best friend, Jesse, the two were known to hang out all the time and they started to seem to develop their own on again, off again type of relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Sometimes they would bicker and argue. Sometimes Hailey would be over all the time and they could be heard laughing hysterically for hours on end and having an amazing time. Then there were other times that they didn't even see each other at all for extended periods of time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
But throughout all of this, they always seemed to have that understanding that they had this friendship together, that they had a very casual sort of, you know, relationship when they would hook up, but that was about it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
It got to a point though that the other guys in the frat had found out about the relationship between Orlando and Haley and they would try to talk Orlando out of hooking up with her because of Kevin and because of how it would look to Kevin since obviously the two of them were friends, the two of them were both friends with Haley and Kevin had already been known to date Haley before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Then, eventually, Haley did tell Orlando that she no longer wanted any sort of romantic relationship with him. She said that they could be friends, but that she wanted to completely cut off any sort of romantic connection with him. After this, of course, Orlando just did not want to let Haley go or take no for an answer. He started coming around to their house all the time completely uninvited.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
According to Josie, Hailey's roommate, he would sometimes just come over to their apartment and would just sit on their porch and smoke a cigarette. They also started to notice that Orlando would just drive by their place all of the time and just sort of look into their apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
At this time, Josie, who again is Hailey's roommate, said that they would just always find him creeping around and she was usually the one who had to go and deal with him. Because Hailey and Orlando had been such close friends, She didn't want to have to be the one to tell him to go away all of the time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So Josie would be the one to go out there and be like, hey Orlando, you can't just be showing up at her place all the time. That's totally inappropriate. Josie would go on to say that Orlando was weirdly possessive over Hailey, even though they weren't even a couple. It was obvious that he wanted a lot more from Hailey than just this little fling.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
He wanted something serious and she just was not giving it to him, so he became obsessed with her. By September 15th, 2017, Hailey had attended a party that Orlando had thrown at his house. When she got there, Orlando found out that the real reason that Hailey didn't want a serious relationship with him was because she had gotten back together with Kevin.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She had worked at a coffee shop on campus called Jasmine's as a barista in the Glenn D. Bartle Library. She had worked there for the past five years and she was set to graduate in May of 2018. She already had a job lined up for her after she was set to graduate at an emergency room in Long Island.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Obviously, this made him very upset that she would dare to choose Kevin over him, so of course he confronted her about it at the party and they were yelling a lot and things got pretty heated between them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
After the verbal altercation though, Orlando tried to smooth things out and he poured everybody shots and was hoping to sort of calm things back down again, but Orlando had already been pretty drunk at that point, so he started throwing up and pretty much had to leave the party. After the party, Kevin went back to Haley's to spend the night there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
That next morning, September 16th, the two had been walking out of Haley's place when they walked past Haley's car and Kevin noticed something odd about her car. When they looked closer, they noticed that all of Haley's tires had been slashed. So, she took a Snapchat video showing the damage and posted it to her story. Immediately, Kevin said that he knew that this was Orlando.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Now, when they confronted Orlando about this entire thing, of course, he denied it and he actually tried blaming the entire thing on Kevin for being the one that really slashed her tires. But Haley did get the police involved. She knew obviously that this wasn't Kevin. She knew that it was Orlando. So the police came over and took a look and they said that this caused over $600 in damage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So even though they knew that Orlando was definitely the one who was responsible, Haley actually declined to press charges. Because of how much the damage had cost, this technically was considered a felony and because of that, Orlando could be kicked out of nursing school and he could possibly be sent back to Nicaragua. So, being the empathetic and kind person that Haley is,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She didn't want him to lose everything over this incident, so she just let it go. After this, of course, Hailey stayed away from Orlando and she avoided seeing or interacting with him very much. But as months passed, Hailey slowly did let Orlando back into her life. Her family and Kevin alike all warned her against this and they told her to stay away from him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
But she really valued the friendship that the two had between them. She thought that he was just a really good friend to her. And she thought that the more time that passed, that things would just go back to normal. But that actually is not what ended up happening. Now, on the evening of March 7th, 2018, Hailey had spent the evening at home with her two roommates.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
They played games together, they drank some wine, and by 1 a.m., they all said goodnight and then went into their separate ways into their own rooms. That next morning on March 8th, when Josie and Mishila both woke up, they noticed that Haley hadn't come out of her room, so they texted her to see if she was awake, but they got no answer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
One of Hailey's best friends, Josie, described Hailey as being the warmest person that you could be around. She said that she didn't know anybody who didn't like Hailey. She had a contagious laugh and Josie said that she was always laughing because Hailey was always laughing. She was a lively, extroverted girl with so many interests and passions.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
However, this was not concerning to them at all at first because Haley loved to sleep in and they were like, who knows how late she could have slept in today. So they just thought that she was sleeping and that there was nothing out of the ordinary and that obviously she would be awake soon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
But as more time passed and they continued texting Haley and no one could get ahold of her, they became more and more concerned. But again, like I said earlier, she liked to go out. She had a lot of friends and she was usually just out and doing her own thing. So her roommates sort of just went about their day on that Thursday just thinking that they would see Hailey later.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
That evening, though, Josie had plans to read her poetry at a local cafe's poetry night, and Hailey had promised Josie that she would attend to watch her read. But when poetry night came and went once again, and Hailey didn't show up, her roommates really started to panic.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
They knew that if Hailey promised to do something, if she told her friends that she would be somewhere, that she would be somewhere. And so, her not showing up was really concerning. As this was going on, Orlando's sister also started to grow worried because she hadn't heard from him in a couple of days either.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She asked the police to do a welfare check at his house, and when they did, they saw that Orlando's car was not there. So it looked to them as if he had just left and was maybe out for a while. So it seemed to them at this time that there was nothing to worry about.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So as the Friday continued and Hailey just was not responding to either Josie or Miss Sheila, they knew that this was very unlike her. She would never go this long with just ignoring everyone's calls and text messages. There was just no way. So they decided to check her location on the Find My iPhone app and it actually showed that she was at Orlando's house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
When they saw this initially, it was almost a relief to them. They thought that they would go over to Orlando's house and just see that they had been sleeping all day and that maybe Hailey just didn't tell anyone she was there because she was
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
upset or embarrassed or wanted to hide the fact that she had hooked up with Orlando again because you can imagine obviously when your friends are telling you to stay away from this guy and you just can't stay away from him and it seems that you know you're always going back to your ex or the person that you you know told that you didn't want a relationship with your friends might you know judge you for it your friends might give you crap for it so it makes sense that at this time they thought that okay Haley's just been there for a couple days she just didn't want to tell us so
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
We're going to find her there and she's, you know, going to be sleeping and it's going to be no issue. But again, of course, they were concerned enough that they did go over to Orlando's house. Now, when they got to Orlando's house, they immediately saw that Orlando's car was missing and to them, This was the first big red flag.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Then they started knocking on the doors to see if anybody was there, but nobody was answering. So this really concerned them. So acting on their concern and worry for Haley, both of the girls entered the house through a window. Josie boosted up Ms. Sheila and then climbed in through the window herself. Then, as they were walking through, Ms.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She loved music and she would often sit with her friends and listen to their other friend, John, play the guitar. One of her other best friends, Brittany, said, quote, She was beautiful inside and out, a beautiful girl. She had this radiant personality and you could throw her in a room with strangers and they'd all be best friends within five minutes because that's just how she was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Sheila was just ahead of Josie, but quickly after entering the house and going into Orlando's room, Ms. Sheila yelled to Josie to call 911 immediately. When Josie asked her what happened, that is when Josie saw what Ms. Sheila just saw. They saw that Haley was laying face up in Orlando's bed and she was nude. At the time, Josie said that she was just sort of in this state of, I guess, shock.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
She said that she couldn't tell if something had happened to Haley. There was no sign of a struggle. There was no blood, but she just had a gut feeling. She just looked really pale and she wasn't moving. She was just laying there. Obviously, when you see your friends come in, you wake up or you say hi to them or something, but she was just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
laying there, so of course they did call 911 to report what they saw. When police had arrived, they saw that it looked as if Haley had been carefully placed in the bed. The blanket was pulled halfway up her body and then her arms were at the sides of her body. When looking closer at her body, she was found to have bruising all over her arms as well as her neck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Upon autopsy, it was found that she had been strangled to death in that room, but at this time, Orlando was nowhere to be found. So now police had the job of figuring out exactly how Haley ended up at Orlando's house and then where Orlando went after that. Luckily, Orlando actually lived in a house that had security cameras on the outside, which did pick up his and Haley's movements.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
So it showed that on the early morning hours of March 8th, Haley and Orlando had walked up to his home at around 3.14 a.m. And of course, she seemed to go in willingly. Then again, seven hours later after that, cameras picked him up going outside and then taking out the trash and then leaving in his car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
THE MURDER THAT CAUSED AN INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT: The SOLVED Case of Haley Anderson
Inside the house, police found a receipt that showed that he purchased Z-Quil and melatonin from a local CVS that same morning. Shortly after this, cameras captured Orlando going back into his home. He then stayed inside for another seven hours. Then he came back outside and then you see him going into the basement of the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. So the case that I have for you guys today is one that is solved, but it does involve the death of a young teenager in a very disturbing way. So if cases involving children make you especially uncomfortable, this is your warning now that this video may not be for you. Today, we are going to be discussing the death of Riley Crossman.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Then he was on Apple Harvest Drive at around noon near a Hernandez store, which is about six miles away from where Riley's body would be found. Then, by 1230 p.m., he was seen traveling west on Tuscarora Pike, then east again at 1246, only two miles away from where Riley's body would be found. Then, he was seen five minutes after this going to a nearby gas station.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
He can be seen on surveillance video from this gas station throwing something away from his toolbox, which was in the bed of his truck. He was then seen running into the store, putting money on the counter, and then running back out to get gas and then leaves the gas station eight minutes later. Then he doesn't return back to work until 2 or 2.30 PM. So clearly he was not where he said he was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
He was going back to her house and then was seen near where her body would later be found the day after she went missing. Then some people who Andy worked with came forward to speak with police. They all said that it was very unusual for him to be driving this truck around. As I said earlier, it belonged to a coworker and that coworker was the one who mainly used this truck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
The coworker would usually pick Andy up for work every day in that truck, but for whatever reason, Andy was the one who was driving around that truck that night and then the next day. Then, Chantel confirmed that Andy usually got around on his bicycle or she drove him in her car. Plus, again, he didn't even have a license, so he wasn't allowed to be driving anyways.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
So, it was, in fact, very unusual for him to be making all of these trips and driving around in this car. Then, another co-worker came out to say that Andy had asked for three construction-grade trash bags before leaving for work on the day that Relly's body was allegedly dumped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Chantel knew that Riley was a very reliable girl, so she asked her to wake her up when she got home from school, and she knew that she was going to. So when Riley got home from school, she woke her mom up and made sure that she was up in time to get ready for her evening shift at her job. After Chantel left for work, Riley went about her evening as normal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Then another former coworker and past employer of Andy's told police about something really weird that happened to him on May 8th. So Andy and this man named Don had not gotten along in the past relating to disagreements with work-related things. However, on May 8th, between the hours of 2 a.m. and 4 a.m., Andy called this guy over and over and over again incessantly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Then he texted him multiple times over and over again saying that he needed somewhere to stay And according to Don, he was very clearly panicked. Don obviously didn't want him staying at his house, so I don't think that he ever let him. But this coworker figured that this might have something to do with Riley being missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Obviously, this is very suspicious behavior for happening the morning before she was reported missing. In addition to this just being very strange behavior, this also contradicted what Andy told police about what he was doing the night that Riley went missing. he told police that he was at home and sleeping at the time until getting up for work the next day and leaving.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
When police asked him about the situation and pointed out that obvious discrepancy, he told police that he was just sick. He told them that he was sick and he just needed more drugs. He said that after he had gotten these drugs and was walking around with them outside, he saw a state police officer parked with their lights on at around 2 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
But police knew that there was absolutely no state officers out at this time. And even if he saw a parked car and maybe thought that someone was inside, they knew that there wasn't anybody inside the cars to have the lights on. So they knew that he was lying about this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
But either way, he told police that the reason that he was so panicked and was trying to get ahold of Don and was trying to stay with him was because he saw this state trooper with the lights on and just didn't want to get caught with the drugs that he had. But again, police knew that this was a lie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Police knew that this was not why he was trying to get into contact with Don because there was no state troopers out at the time. So that was an obvious red flag to say that he was lying. Obviously, this most likely was the time after he may have murdered Riley or maybe it was right before that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Either way, police know that this had something to do with Riley and that it did not necessarily have anything to do with the drugs. So with all of this very damning evidence, right away, police decided that it was enough to arrest and charge Andy McCauley with first degree murder, concealment of a body. and death by child abuse. The trial for Riley's murder started on September 27th, 2021.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
A lot of the evidence that was brought up in trial were things that we discussed earlier, such as his truck being seen, the drywall mud found on Riley's body that matched the one that was in the truck, the screw found near her body that was also found in the truck and his work belt, testimony from the coworkers about the timeline and the surveillance video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
but there was more information that came out by testimony shared at the trial. So first Chantal testified about the night of, and then the day after that it's believed that Riley was killed. Chantal said that when she arrived home from work that day at 10 PM on May 7th, She said that she saw Andy sleeping on the couch or what she said now she knows was fake sleeping.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Riley's maternal grandmother was at home with Riley as well as her two younger brothers until around 7pm. As far as Chantel knew, Riley stayed at home and was just chilling in her room that entire evening. So when Chantel got home at around 10pm that evening and walked past Riley's door and saw that it was shut, she pretty much just figured that she was in her room and didn't think anything of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She said that when she got home he woke up, but she noticed that he was bright-eyed and not groggy-eyed as you would be if you first woke up. She suspects that he was using drugs, specifically cocaine, at this time. Then we know about his strange behavior when she initially told him that Riley was missing, that he went off, went on his bike and kind of disappeared.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Nobody knew where he was until she got home and just saw that he was sleeping on the couch. Then prosecution discussed cell phone data that was found on both Riley and Andy's phone that day. Now, the text messages found that Riley sent out are very uneasy and scary to hear. Now it was a bit confusing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I don't know if these messages were found necessarily on Riley's phone because I believe that they were deleted from her phone after this all happened. So I believe that Andy took her phone and deleted these messages because he probably saw them. So I think these messages were found on Hayden's phone or specifically on his iWatch. At 11.01 p.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
on May 7th, Riley texted her boyfriend telling him that her mom's boyfriend just came into her room. She wrote, quote, Then 12 minutes later, she sent a second and final text message saying, However, at the time, Hayden did not get these messages because unfortunately he was sleeping.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Then as we know, the night that she was murdered or like the night before the morning that she was murdered, Riley and Hayden were on FaceTime. Hayden testified that at trial, the night that they were FaceTiming, Hayden had heard Andy go into her room multiple times. But these times he heard Andy coming into her room asking her if she wanted to do things like dishes for chore money.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
But clearly she was uncomfortable because according to Hayden, Riley asked him to stay muted on FaceTime so that Andy wouldn't hear that they were talking. So to me, this just shows that she was scared of him. She was worried that he might do something to her. So he wanted her to stay on FaceTime, but he didn't want Andy to know that they were FaceTiming.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
They also found out that the morning that Riley went missing at around 3 a.m. on May 7th, they saw that Andy had called Riley's phone several times, but was blocking his phone number by doing star 67. He denied making these calls, but they were recorded. They were on record. He probably deleted them from both of their phones, but
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
You know, the cell phone companies don't lie. The prosecution believes that this night he was making all of these calls to try and check on her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
what she was doing and make sure that she wasn't on facetime with her boyfriend at that time then the prosecution went on to explain the timeline on why they believe andy went to work and then left work after they think that the night before she was suffocated with a pillow hence the blood and saliva being on the different areas of the pillow as well as her bed then they believe that he left her there and then when he went to work
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
He probably wanted to have an alibi, not thinking about the fact that his coworkers might tell on him that he left or thinking about the surveillance video that was going to pick him up. They think that when he went back to the home, he got her body and then disposed of her where she was later found. So that's basically the evidence that the prosecution brought forward.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Again, Chantel really was not feeling well that day, but she couldn't get time off of work to be homesick, so when she got home, she pretty much just fell asleep immediately. Then, according to Hayden, Riley's boyfriend, the two were on FaceTime until around 10.30 p.m. that night. Then, another one of Riley's friends said that they were texting each other until almost midnight that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Yes, there is some forensic evidence, but this is largely a circumstantial case. And there's no real set motive or history of behaviors, at least that I know of, for why he may have wanted to kill Riley. Chantel wasn't really able to point to specific examples of saying, here, this one time Andy did something really weird to her, And this happened and this is why I know he did it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
And that was basically the defense's argument. They don't have a motive, so why would he have wanted to do this? They denied any sort of sexual motive, but the prosecution pointed to just how her body was found. Her shorts were unbuttoned and her underwear was torn and tattered. Her shirt was found with it pulled above her head and she was not wearing a bra at the time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
And again, it was clear just by the way that her clothes were found on her that somebody had redressed her. So I believe that that is the official motive that they argued. Chantal, as well as Andy's own mother, say that they believe that he went into her room that night with the intent to sexually assault her. I think he went in there multiple times while they were on FaceTime to check.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
and see what she was doing and make sure that he could get away with it. Both Chantal and his mother said that he had a tendency to become sexually aggressive when he's on drugs. And he admitted himself that he did do drugs frequently with his drug of choice being cocaine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Prosecution and others believe that the reason that nobody heard anything going on that night, one, was because they were sleeping, but also because he used a pillow to suffocate her and prevent her from making any noise. And I would have to agree. I would have to say that I do believe that he probably went in there with the intent to sexually assault her and that's when he murdered her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
So after only one week of trial, jury went into deliberation. Like I said, the trial was made up of mostly circumstantial evidence, so they deliberated for quite a while. However, at the end of it, Andy McCauley was found guilty on charges of first-degree murder, death by child abuse, as well as concealment of a human body. When the charges were being read, Andy showed absolutely no emotion.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I mean, he didn't show really any emotion throughout the entire trial, so I'm not surprised by this whatsoever. At the sentencing hearing, there was an option to give him mercy where he can get the chance for parole after 15 years. However, thankfully, this was denied.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I think the fact that it was 15 years and then Riley was only 15 years old when her life was ended hit the family extra hard, so they fought against this pretty hard. Why should he get the chance for parole after 15 years if this beautiful life was ended after only 15? Thankfully, he is now facing life in prison without the possibility for parole. So that is where the case now lies.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I feel absolutely heartbroken for Chantel. As far as I've seen, I don't think that she knew that anything was going on. I mean, how could she? She was literally constantly working, just trying to do what she could to make money and raise her children. I'm sure that she knew that Andy did drugs, but a lot of people are put in a situation where they just don't feel that they can do anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I know that there was a phone call released where she just had a feeling that Andy did something, and this was a recorded phone call, and she basically said, all you had to do was just not be a junkie. And that's her words, not mine, but... She knew that something was happening with his drug use and she knows deep down that that is what caused this entire thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
After that, she wasn't on her phone that night until 5.40 a.m., when she tried calling Hayden, but he was sleeping, so he didn't answer. By 7.15 a.m., Chantel woke up and started getting ready for her day. So she went into Riley's room to go and check in on her, but Riley was not in her room. But still, she didn't really think much of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I'm sure she carries a lot of guilt. I'm sure she regrets letting this man who was on drugs into her home. But at the end of the day, the only person who's at fault is Andy McCauley. I don't want anybody sending hate towards Chantel or anybody else involved in this case. I'm also heartbroken for her dad, Lance. He couldn't have done really anything to prevent this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
He lived a half hour away and he just wasn't close enough to know that anything could have been happening. And again, I'm sure he feels immense guilt for this happening in the first place, but of course it's not his fault either. Please don't reach out to any of Riley's family members. They're already suffering enough.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
They're already living through what happened and they don't need a bunch of people on the internet coming towards them and saying that they're at fault, saying that they should have done more to prevent this, saying that they let someone doing drugs into their house. I don't want to hear any of that. Please don't reach out to the family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
I specifically did this case to spread awareness on Riley's death because it just didn't get a lot of exposure. And that's it. That's the reason. Again, please don't reach out to her family unless it's to say kind words. They're already going through enough and they don't need any more stress in their lives.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Riley's school was basically right across the street from their home, and she walked to school every day, and school started at 7.45, so... leaving early to get to school early to socialize a bit before heading to class was pretty normal for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
In addition to this, Hayden was going on a field trip that day so it was pretty normal that Riley would want to show up early to school before he left on the field trip so that they could chat and she could say goodbye. So that day went on pretty much as normal until Chantal had gotten a message from the school saying that Riley hadn't showed up to some of her classes that day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Of course, that did set off some red flags for Chantel, but just as so many parents would think, she thought that maybe she was just playing hooky from class to act out and be a rebellious teen. I also do want to note that some of her teachers had marked her as being in class because they didn't fully take attendance, so it's not like she was missing the full day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Riley Crossman was born December 22, 2003, in Martinsbury, West Virginia, to her parents Chantel Oakley and Lance Crossman. She was described as being absolutely beautiful inside and out with a contagious laugh. She was a natural artist, a talented dancer, and a beautiful singer. She absolutely loved little kids, and they loved her just as much.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
It was more so marked that she just missed a couple of classes. However, by 3.30pm that day, Riley's grandmother, or Chantel's mother, realized that Riley was not at home when she was supposed to be. So she alerted Chantel, who was at work at the time, and Chantel immediately started trying to get a hold of Riley to figure out where she was and what she was doing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
It was really weird that not only was she not home at her normal time, but Riley hadn't texted her mom all day. Riley was always asking her mom if she could hang out with someone after school, whether it was Hayden or friends or go to an after school event or something. She was pretty much always texting her mom at some point throughout the day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
But this day, there was nothing, so Chantel tried texting her. However, these text messages would not deliver, so she tried calling her, but her call went straight to voicemail. She then tried sending another text, but again, this text also would not deliver. So it was either that her phone was dead or it had been turned off for whatever reason.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
This was very unusual for Riley, but still Chantel thought that maybe Riley had a dance rehearsal or something after school that she forgot to text her about. So Chantel asked Riley's grandmother if she could go to the school and see if Riley was anywhere there. So she walked across the street to Berkeley Springs High School to see if she was there
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
and looked around wherever she could think of, but she didn't find Riley anywhere. So at around 5 p.m. that day, Chantel decided to leave work and go to school herself so that she could look around and try to find Riley. When she got there, she noticed that Riley's boyfriend was in the parking lot because he had just returned from the school's field trip.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She went up to him and asked him if he knew where Riley was, but he said that he hadn't talked to her all day because he was on this field trip. So Chantel went inside the school and started walking around and going anywhere that she could think of inside of the school but she could not find Riley anywhere.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
So Chantel returned home to see if maybe Riley had shown up while she was out looking for her, but she hadn't. She went upstairs to her room to see if anything had changed or if she was there, but she wasn't. At that point, Chantel was mixed emotions of upset and scared. Obviously, she would be upset because at that point she thought,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Maybe Riley was just skipping school and going and hanging out with friends and doing rebellious teen things. So she was kind of expecting Riley's gonna come home, I'm gonna be really upset at her, she's gonna be grounded, and all of this will be a big misunderstanding. But then there was also this other part of her that knew just how out of character this was for Riley.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She knew that she wasn't someone to just go out and not say anything to her mother. She knew that Riley could tell her anything that she needed. She knew that she would probably say yes if she wanted to go to something after school. So there was really no reason for Riley to go out, skip class, and not tell her mother where she was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
So of course there was this other part of her that was absolutely terrified and worried about what was going on. However, as more time passed and absolutely nobody had heard from her, she called 911 to report Riley as missing. Also right away, Chantel called Riley's father to let him know that she was missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
At the time, he was at a work thing, so he didn't answer the phone call when she initially called, but when she had called him two times, he knew that something was wrong because he she would never call twice unless it was something very serious.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
He lived about a half hour away from them, so at that point he drove over to Berkeley Springs and on his way on the drive, he tried to get into contact with Riley, but of course, none of his messages or phone calls were going through. He then drove around the very small town of Berkeley Springs and tried asking any teenager that he could spot to see if they knew where Riley was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She was known to be intelligent, caring, and helpful, yet stubborn and about as dramatic as teenage girls come. She spent her time between her parents' houses in Martinsburg and Berkeley Springs, West Virginia, because her parents were divorced. But she spent most of her time in Berkeley Springs living with her mom, and that is where she went to school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
One person did say that they spotted her walking nearby, but the sighting wasn't confirmed and it easily could have been a case of mistaken identity. Nobody who actually knew her had seen her or spoke to her that day or had any idea of where she was. So at that point, everybody knew that this was serious. After this, huge searches were done. Police got involved. They had
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
tons of volunteers, and they tried to search anywhere that they could to try to find Riley. They searched every square inch of the school and the surrounding land around the school. They searched around the neighboring houses and the neighboring communities. During this time, Riley's boyfriend was one of her biggest supporters.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
He was trying to help find her every single waking moment since day one. At that point, nobody had any idea what could have possibly happened to Riley. Riley was only 15 years old at the time, so obviously she didn't have her license and she didn't have her learner's permit or anything, so there was no way that she had access to a car to drive off and go somewhere.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
And again, none of her friends had seen or heard from her all day. So there was really no reason to think that any of them had picked her up. There was really nothing else in her life that could indicate that she wanted to run away. Everybody knew that something was wrong and they were worried that she had been abducted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
They made several pleas to the public to help them find her and get her home safely. But then police went ahead and searched her bedroom and this told a completely different story. In her bedroom, they found small spots of blood on her pillow as well as on her top sheet and on a Victoria's Secret ribbon that was in her room.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
After further testing, these spots of blood came back as being mixtures of blood and saliva and the DNA was a match to Riley's DNA. They also found her wallet as well as her glasses and she could not see without her glasses in her room. So all of these things put together pointed towards her not being a runaway and pointed towards something possibly happening in that bedroom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
They continued searching as much as they possibly could until May 16th, 2019. when their absolute worst fears came to fruition. Police found a body on the 5500 block of the Tuscarora Pike near the top of a mountain in Berkeley County. And right away, just based off of the clothes that she was wearing, police were confident right away that this body belonged to 15-year-old Riley Crossman.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
When she was found, she was laying on a contractor-grade trash bag with a white t-shirt on, long pants, and one shoe, which was untied. Then under the long pants, she was wearing shorts and these shorts were unzipped and unbuttoned and her underwear appeared to be ripped and tattered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
They also found a white chalky substance on her body, which looked like it could have been drywall mud, but they weren't too sure initially. So they sent it off for testing. So of course Riley's body was sent off to the medical examiner for an autopsy. However, I guess her body was so decomposed at that point that they couldn't determine an exact cause of death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She had also been dating a young man named Hayden Lacey for about eight months before she died, And by all accounts, they were super close and they adored each other. Her dad, Lance, said that Hayden is a pretty good kid and he was a positive influence on her. He says that since being with him, she was pulling up her grades and was doing pretty well for herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Now, this really confused me because they found her only eight days after she went missing. So she would have only been dead for eight days at most at that point. Let me know in the comments if you guys know more about the weather conditions in that area of West Virginia at the time. But to me, that seems like really fast decomposition.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
But either way, despite this, they did rule her cause of death as being homicidal violence. I think when making the official ruling there's a lot of other things that go into the cause of death besides like the physiological processes that they find. It's pretty obvious that Riley didn't go up to the area that her body was found herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
It's obvious that she didn't only just put one shoe on her foot or rip apart her underwear. The way that her clothes were put on also looked as if someone else had redressed her because her pants were hiked up really high. So, just based on all of those different aspects, I think that's how they were able to make that ruling even if they couldn't necessarily determine a cause of death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
At this point, of course, her family is absolutely devastated. They had no idea what possibly could have happened or who could have wanted to hurt Riley. So, police immediately started their investigation and asking for tips. Also, of course, police went ahead and questioned everybody who knew Riley.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
With most investigations, or probably all investigations, those closest to the victim, including their family, are the ones that police want to rule out first. That includes Lance, her father, her stepmom, Jessica Bishop, her mother, Chantel, as well as her mom's boyfriend, Andy McCauley.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Everyone in the family who police interviewed told their stories, their accounts of that day, and everybody's story appeared to be consistent. None of them had any red flags or anything else that stood out to them, except for one person, Andy, Chantel's boyfriend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Now, as they were going through their investigation, police received a tip from an eyewitness who saw a green Dodge 2500 work truck with a ladder rack backed into an area between the residence and their shed at 10 a.m. on May 8th. The witness actually noticed this because it was a friend of Andy and Chantel's, and the witness asked Chantel why was the car there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
since they knew that it wasn't Andy's truck and they knew that it wasn't Chantel's truck and they knew that Andy didn't have his license at the time. So it stood out enough to both of them that at the time this witness reported it to police. Then police talked to Chantel about anything else that she noticed about the day that her daughter went missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She said that the day that Riley initially went missing when Andy got home from work She of course told him that Riley was missing and he immediately ran into the house and then ran back out and then got onto his bicycle and drove off saying that he's going out to go ahead and look for Riley. But then as everyone else was out searching that entire day when Chantel got back home from searching,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
She went inside and saw that Andy was just sleeping on the couch while everybody else was out searching, desperately trying to find answers, being absolutely exhausted, but not giving up. Andy was sleeping and this really concerned her. Then when police interviewed Andy, they immediately knew that something was off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
So Tuesday, May 7th, 2019, Riley had gotten home from school at around 3.30 p.m. And when she got home, her mom Chantel was taking a nap on the couch. Chantel worked two jobs, so she was at work while Riley was at school, but she wasn't feeling too well this day, so she asked to go home early from her first job so that she could go ahead and take a nap at home before starting her next job.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
So first, when police asked him where he was on May 8th at the time of 10 AM, he said that he was at his job where he worked as a construction worker and told police that he hadn't left the job site all day. However, after his coworkers had confirmed that he did in fact leave work that day, He later changed his story and said that he actually went off to go buy drugs from someone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
But then he later changed his story again and said that he did actually go home to Riley's home to grab some drugs for himself and a coworker. This coworker thought that he was grabbing drugs for them and maybe was going to visit a girl outside of work. and that's why he thought that he was gone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
The co-worker told police that Andy had left work at 9am and that he didn't show back up to work until around 2 to 30pm. These inconsistencies just did not sit right with police. They soon connected this green truck to being one of Andy's co-workers and a car that he drove in quite frequently. So police went ahead and searched this truck
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
And lo and behold, they found white dried drywall mud inside of the bed of the truck that matched the drywall mud that was found on Riley's body. Additionally, police used cadaver dogs to search around the house and as well as in this truck. And these cadaver dogs did alert the presence of a dead body having been within the bed of the truck at some point.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
Additionally, police found two sheet metal screws that were found on the roadway near where Riley's body was found. Police examined these screws and they found out that they were very specific screws, that they were like unique screws. They weren't just your everyday run of the mill screws. And they came back as being the same screws that were found within this work truck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Riley Crossman Case
as well as screws that were found in Andy's work belt. So Andy told police that he had traveled east on Route 9 to get back to his job site after leaving, but police found surveillance video that showed he was actually traveling back towards Riley's house at 9 to 10 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Hey guys, my name is Rachel and welcome to my channel. So the case that we are going to be going over today is one of those cases that's extremely frustrating and was very easily preventable if the right steps were taken. This case should have been solved so easily if the right steps were taken and Unfortunately, there were so many missteps that she's just never been found to this day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Of course, Mike panicked and him and Deanne's family immediately started passing out missing persons flyers, posting them all over town. Now, while doing this, Mike got a notification that Deanne's credit card was being used at a grocery store called The Trading Company in a small town about 15 miles south of Spokane. Now,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I do want to point out that there has been some mixed reporting on exactly where this grocery store was, whether it was about 15 miles south or five miles south. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but for the details of this story to make sense, I think it makes a little bit more sense if it was 15 miles away and you'll see why in a couple of minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
that type of versatile and resilient type of person. When Deanne was 15 years old, her parents got a divorce that ended in her father moving out of the family home. Not long after that, her brother Carson had left home as well for bootcamp all the way in Texas. So this was an extremely difficult time for Deanne because it seemed as if everything that she knew in her life was changing and leaving.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So anyways, after getting this notification that Deanne's credit card was being used at the trading company, a grocery store, Mike decided not to go to that location and instead waited by her car, assuming that she would be back with her groceries since her cell phone and purse were still in the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, Deanne never showed up to her car and after a few hours of waiting, he decided to actually go to the store himself. When he got there, he looked around for Deanne, but could not find her. He showed Deanne's flyers to an employee who actually said that she looked familiar, but he wasn't sure.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He noticed that the store had a bunch of surveillance cameras, so he asked the employee if he could look at them. The employee asked the manager who agreed and said that they could come back next Saturday to view the tapes. The next day after that, Thursday, November 5th, Deanne was still nowhere to be found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And this is when Mike actually finally decided to call the Spokane Police Department to report Deanne missing. This was 36 hours after the time that she had last been seen alive. Mike was told that they would take down a report and assign a detective to this case. However, Mike said that after he disclosed Deanne's mental health issues, they seemed dismissive and less interested in her case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
There wasn't a sense of urgency for her case since she was an adult who had the right to go missing if she wanted to and there wasn't any sign of foul play and they knew that Deanne had this history of going off the grid during her episodes and they assumed that This was all that this was and they just thought that she would turn up in a couple of hours or days.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Because of the police's disinterest in Deanne's case, Mike decided to go to the media to try and get Deanne's face out there. He wanted to get her story out there, but the weird thing is is that he actually never contacted Deanne's family to tell them about her disappearance. Mike said that he didn't want to alarm the family because of her history of going off the grid.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And you know, if this were one of those times, he didn't want to cause any unnecessary panic for the family. Because of Mike not telling the family, Carson found out that his sister was missing after seeing it on the news, which is a much worse way of finding out than having someone that you know tell you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
As sort of a side note, I do think that it's weird that Mike chose to tell the media and cause an uproar in the media and put her story and face out there, but he didn't think to cause a panic in the family, which
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
wasn't concerned enough to actually tell her family. I just think that that's something that's a little bit strange. So anyways, at first, Carson didn't immediately freak out about his sister's disappearance because this happened before. However, when he called his mother to let him know what was happening, she did immediately freak out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Patricia knew that despite Deanne's history of going off the grid, that this time was different. Now, if Deanne were going to leave for a couple of days, she always contacted her family before doing so. She would never just run off without saying anything first. She would also check in every so often just to let them know that she was okay. She hadn't done either of those things this time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
This time, her disappearance was different.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
now four days after her initial disappearance mike went back to the trading company to review the footage from november 4th when her credit card was used they started going through the footage from around 12 p.m that day and immediately they ended up seeing diane at the checkout counter at the grocery store however what he saw in this footage did not sit right with Mike.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
those around her said that the spunky energetic young woman was a completely different person after all of these changes. However, despite this being extremely hard on Deanne, Deanne's mother described their relationship as them being best friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
When he saw Deanne on the security videos, she seemed to be moving quickly and erratically. She was making strange gestures with her hands and was looking over her shoulder as if she thought someone was following her. What she purchased was also a bit strange. She bought four energy drinks, she bought cigarettes, birthday candles, string cheese, and a bottle of vodka.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
These things were strange because there really weren't any events or birthdays or celebrations coming up that she would be buying these items for. There were also witnesses who saw Deanne that morning who said Deanne was acting erratically. So the grocery store was a part of a strip mall and in that strip mall was a hair salon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
A woman working in the hair salon said that Deanne walked in around 11 30 or 12 that morning acting confused and she said that Deanne was calling her mommy and telling her a story of someone drugging her and kidnapping her. Then there were two other witnesses that saw her a few minutes later. They saw her sitting around the strip mall and just kind of acting strangely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The two women asked her if she needed any help or maybe a ride home, but they said that she was acting argumentative. So the woman thought this was strange. So she actually did call the police over. The police officer arrived around 1245 that afternoon for a wellness check.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
By the time the police officer showed up, an ambulance had also arrived and the EMTs were attempting to help Deanne, but she was refusing help and acting confrontational towards them. When the police officer tried to speak with Deanne, she was also acting confrontational, refusing to give the police officer her name and saying that she had been drugged and assaulted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, the police officer thought that she just seemed drunk and had no signs of physical abuse, so When Deanne just started to walk away from them, the officer just left and did nothing further.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, of course, the family was extremely upset when they found out that this officer did absolutely nothing, but the officer later stated that the state doesn't have any public intoxication laws, and since Deanne seemed able to take care of herself, there wasn't any reason to detain her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, many people are still questioning this because there's no way from what we know from witness statements that she seemed able to take care of herself. She was going around saying that she had been drugged and beaten and was clearly not in the right state of mind. So no one can understand why this officer thought that she was not a danger to herself or anyone else.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
friends it was just the two of them living together in the home so they grew this extremely tight bond when diane was 17 years old her life completely changed when she found out that she was pregnant of course she was extremely nervous for this new life that she now was carrying inside of her but
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, the family continued to search and hand out flyers for Deanne, but they just could not find anything. This was until November 7th, five days after Deanne was last seen, when Mike received a phone call from someone not only claiming to recognize Deanne, but claimed that they had been together the night before she went missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
This man was the same employee at the grocery store that Mike had previously spoken to and who said that he recognized Deanne from the flyer that Mike showed him. The employee said that he thought the woman on the flyer just sort of looked like Deanne, but wasn't actually sure at the time if it was really her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So Mike and his sister decided to meet up with this employee who told them that he had met Deanne when she was walking out of the knitting factory for a cigarette. He said that He went up to talk to Deanne and didn't think there was really anything wrong at first. He offered her a cigarette, she accepted, and they talked.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He initially said that Deanne did come home with him to his apartment, but he had a girlfriend at the time, so nothing sexual had occurred between the two of them. He said the next morning he drove Deanne to the grocery store where he worked so he could run in to buy cigarettes while she waited in the car. He said when he got back to his car, she was nowhere to be found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She had left and stolen his cell phone. He looked around for her for a while, but he just couldn't find her, so he decided to drive home. He said that when he did get home, this is when he noticed that her car keys were in his vehicle. He gave the keys to Mike and said that he didn't know anything about Deanne's whereabouts and didn't know anything about her disappearance.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Mike said that this employee struck him as odd, but when police talked to this man a few days later, They said he said the same story, except this time the employee said that him and Deanne had actually drank and smoked marijuana together the night that they were together. So he did change up the story a little bit, which did not sit right with Mike.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now at this point, Mike had Deanne's car keys, so he went over to her car and unlocked the car and looked through it. He found her purse, her wallet, and her cell phone, but noted that a few credit cards were missing from her wallet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He then took the car and drove it home, which investigators did find odd because of course, now that Mike had driven the car, any evidence or DNA that was in the car was now essentially ruined. Now, after Mike had driven the car home, he was now sitting there thinking about how this story that the employee was telling just didn't seem right.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
was getting increasingly frustrated and wondered if this man could have drugged and kidnapped Deanne. Mike started making some phone calls and him and a few friends actually went to this guy's house and started banging on the door, calling the guy's names and asked to go through his apartment to see if he could find any sign of Deanne.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She was extremely excited and the baby's father, a boy from high school, the two of them were dedicated to providing and working hard for their baby. In July of 1998, Deanne gave birth to a healthy baby boy who she named Hayden. Again, the two were extremely devoted to making a good life for their son, so Deanne decided to move in with Hayden's father and the two spent nine years
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He said he asked, but he really didn't give this guy much of a choice. So he kind of barged in. He went through the apartment. He searched extremely thoroughly, but he found absolutely no sign of Deanne in this guy's apartment. After this, the employee actually left the state of Washington and went back to his home state of Florida to live with his family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Mike was extremely frustrated and confused at this point and spent many hours every night just driving around searching for Deanne. Now, this entire time, police had been investigating behind the scenes but were not making much progress in her case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
initially decided to look at cell phone activity and pings, but nothing came of this because her cell phone was just sitting in her car the entire time. However, police did decide to look into her credit card activity, which made some very interesting findings.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
From Sunday, November 7th through Thursday, November 12th, police found out that Deanne's credit card had been used around Spokane multiple times, mostly at grocery stores and pharmacies. Using this, they were able to gather some security videos and figured out who was using this card.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, they were shocked when they saw that the person using Dan's credit card was not Dan, but a light skinned male who was wearing a black hoodie and a black hat. After watching security video, they found that this man had used the credit card, and then they also saw him walking out of the store with two other people.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
They released images of this man out to the public and immediately received numerous tips identifying this man as Randy Riley. After this initial identification, another tip came through from a woman who claimed to have seen Randy Riley and another man with Deanne on November 4th. near a storage facility called Storage Solutions, which was across the street from the trading company grocery store.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Another woman confirmed this sighting and said that she had actually talked to Deanne and asked her if she was okay after she saw Deanne sitting on the ground when she was with these men. The witness said that Deanne said she was just going through a divorce and was just upset because of that. The witness said that she didn't call police because Deanne seemed to be in the right state of mind and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She didn't seem like she was in any sort of danger. Randy Riley had a minor criminal history and had been arrested before. He seemed to mostly live on the streets but did have a listed address, but when police went to this address, they found out that Randy Riley had actually been evicted from this apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
After all of these sightings and witness testimonies, police put together a timeline which showed that Deanne had walked out of the grocery store after buying all those strange things. She walked over for a little bit to the storage facility, met Riley with the people that he was with, and then they walked into the storage facility.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
They were later seen leaving the storage facility on surveillance footage around 1.30 p.m., The landlord at Riley's listed address said that she saw Riley with Deanne and one other person around 2.30 that same day. The landlord said that Deanne was just laying in the road at the time, just completely out of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Another witness actually confirmed the sighting saying that they also saw Deanne laying in the road and actually went up to her to see if she was okay and Again, Deanne said that she was just having a rough time because she was going through a divorce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The witness did say that Deanne did seem intoxicated, but thought that it wasn't anything too crazy given that she just said that she was having a rough time and going through a divorce, so this witness just left. Now, initially, police couldn't find Randy Riley because he had been evicted from that address and they didn't really know where to look.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
But eventually, police ended up tracking Randy Riley down through his mother who told police where to find him. Police questioned Randy and he told police that he and his friend James had met Deanne near the storage unit
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
trying to make their relationship work for Hayden before the two ultimately split up. This was another devastating hit for Deanne because she had spent so long just trying her hardest to get this relationship to work, but it just didn't work out the way that she wanted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
and they were all drinking together and hanging out when Deanne just gave him her credit cards and told him to go get himself something to eat, and then he claimed to know nothing else about where Deanne was. The whole story of them hanging out and drinking together for a little bit did seem pretty reasonable, but police did not believe the story that Deanne just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
gave him her credit cards to just go and use freely. Police then arrested Randy for second degree identity theft and brought him in for questioning. Now, this time when Randy was asked about how he knew Deanne, he kind of had a little bit of a different story. He said that him and his friend James were moving out after being evicted from his apartment and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
were at the storage facility when they saw Deanne acting drunk and belligerent, but he and James still hung out with her for a couple of hours. He said that they were walking down South Inland Empire Way when Deanne said that she had to go to the bathroom. So as they were walking, Deanne went up a hill and found some bushes to go into so she could use the bathroom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Randy said that his friend James went up into the bushes to check on Deanne and that She came out after going to the bathroom and then they just went their separate ways. He said that the last time he saw her was on the side of this road. He said that he went back to the place where he last saw her the next day, but he didn't see her this time, but they did see her shoes and her coat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So they decided to grab these clothes and then that's when they found her credit cards inside of her coat pockets. I do want to mention as a little bit of a side note that this was the middle of November in Washington where it was pretty cold outside so we don't really know why she would choose to take off her shoes and jacket in the middle of these cold temperatures.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So already at this point it kind of seems like His story just doesn't really make a lot of sense. Now, in the days previous to when they first questioned Randy, police had actually found Deanne's license in downtown Spokane in front of a Sonnenberg's deli and were hopeful that she may still have just been wandering and that's why it was there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, Randy actually admitted to police that he had thrown Deanne's license there to make it look like Deanne was still wandering around. He also said that he got rid of her jacket and shoes but that he didn't know where Deanne was and had nothing to do with her disappearance. Randy was ultimately charged and sentenced to 13 months in jail for identity theft.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So Deanne decided to move back in with her mother and this was around the same time that Deanne's mental health started to take a turn for the worst. At this time, those around her said that she started going through these episodes where she would get into these fits of rage and start yelling and cursing and had all of these aggressive behaviors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, police did decide to go ahead and question James, who was a friend that Randy said that him and Deanne were with on November 4th. Now, when police questioned James, James had a little bit of a different story than Randy. James said that he didn't know anything about Randy taking Deanne's credit cards or clothes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He said that when they were all walking together, Deanne did go up the hill into the bushes to use the bathroom, but that Randy was actually the one that went up to check on her. He said that Randy was in the bushes for about minutes but then came out of the bushes by himself without Deanne.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He said that Randy said that Deanne just wanted to stay where she was in the bushes so they just decided to leave her behind. James said that he had not seen Deanne after she went into these bushes. After comparing the story of Randy and James, they were able to kind of figure out that the location that they were talking about was only about 300 yards away from Deanne's home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Because of this, police launched a search around the area. They used sniffer dogs, helicopters, and they searched on foot. However, there was absolutely no sign of Deanne or anything related to her at all. Because they couldn't really find anything to connect Randy or James to Deanne's disappearance, investigators decided to look into Mike Tibbetts, who was Deanne's fiancé.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, according to Mike, their relationship was perfect and everything was going great. However, others said that their relationship may have not been as amazing as Mike said that it was. Deanne's best friend Amanda and Deanne's son's girlfriend Melanie said that that they had witnessed some fights and arguments between Deanne and Mike in the weeks before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Amanda did show investigators text messages to her from Deanne saying, I'm out. I'm like 99% sure that he drugged me the other night. Anne said that she went to the doctor to get tested for drugs, but the doctor didn't find anything and did not believe her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Amanda said that Dan had wanted to leave Mike for quite a while, and investigators also kind of took note of some of Mike's suspicious behaviors. We know that the night that Deanne went missing, he chose to just kind of stay by his car all night rather than calling police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
When he found out that her credit card was being used at the store, he chose to just kind of wait by her car instead of going out to the store immediately to see her. He chose not to notify Dan's family when she immediately went missing and he didn't call the police right away either. Also, when he got Dan's keys and gained access to her car, he
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
chose to drive it home and look through the car rather than handing the car over to investigators to search it first. He also had refused to hand over Deanne's cell phone and the note that she left the night that she went missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He said that the reasoning for this was basically because these items were important to him and he was afraid that if he gave them to police that he would never get them back. As for Deanne claiming that she had been drugged, Mike said that Deanne had told Mike she believed the neighbors were tainting their water supply with poison and that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She would come out of these episodes and she would feel bad about what she had just done and she would return to the old Deanne and apologize. But then, you know, eventually she would just go back to this other angry person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
An ex-boyfriend was trying to kill her and she even accused Mike of conspiring to kill her along with them. These paranoid behaviors led Mike to believe that she was about to have another episode. And if you remember from before, this was around the same time that Deanne had stopped taking her meds because her new insurance would not cover them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
At the time of her disappearance, Mike said that she'd actually been off of her meds for about a month and a half. Now, some of Mike's decisions and behaviors had been questionable, but a lot of this was starting to make sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, we don't really know for sure if she really had been drugged or if their relationship was as good as Deanne and Mike said or if it was as bad as others believed it may have been. But it does make sense that if she was off her meds that she was going into another manic episode and was growing paranoid of those around her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Because of this and the fact that investigators didn't really have much else on Mike, they really had no reason to suspect him of any wrongdoing. Now, a few months later, Amanda, Deanne's best friend, had received a Facebook message from James, who was one of the very last people to have seen Deanne alive.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
In this message, he seemed extremely frantic and said that he needed to speak with Deanne's family immediately and he would say anything that they needed to know. Carson, Deanne's brother, arranged to speak with James but when they actually did speak, James basically told Carson the same things that he had said before to police. He was being extremely vague and giving no new information.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Carson believes that James was basically just in this state of panic and wanted to admit to something, but then quickly changed his mind. This was incredibly frustrating, but there really was not anything that they could do.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The person that she was turning into was completely different than the Dianne her family had once known and her mother said that at this point her best friend was completely unrecognizable. It got to the point where Deanne would get into these episodes and then would just completely go off the grid for a couple of days just so her family didn't have to see her in this state.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So on February 27th, Deanne's 36th birthday, Amanda organized a new search comprised of old friends, people from their high school, and other volunteers to search around the area that Deanne was last known to be seen with Randy and James.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
But again, absolutely nothing was found. At this point, the case just kind of stops. There has been absolutely no movement in this case and there have been absolutely no more sightings of Deanne, no evidence found, no new suspects, no new leads, and most importantly, no new developments. To this day, we have absolutely no idea what could have happened to Deanne Hastings.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So that's pretty much all we know for this case, so let's just go ahead and get into the theories. The first theory is that Deanne just decided to walk off on her own in the midst of her manic episode. People believe that she was in this mental state and then, you know, after going into the bushes that she may have just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
wandered off, gotten really far from where she was and maybe she's just been in such a confused state that she to this day still has no idea that she is a missing person. Again, we know that Deanne did have a history of going off the grid during her manic episodes. We know that she may have been unhappy in her relationship and maybe even thought that those around her were trying to kill her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And I do think that it's one of those cases that can be solved, but there are just things getting in the way of her being found. So hopefully with spreading awareness and spreading her story, it can get the conversation going and hopefully bring her home someday. So with that being said, today we are going to be talking about the unsolved disappearance of Deanne Hastings.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
People believe that because of this paranoia, She may have just walked off and chose to leave everything behind. It's possible that after walking off that she just went somewhere and has never returned. Many of the signs kind of point to her walking off and leaving on her own. We know that she had just gone off of her medication which seemed to be really the only thing that was helping her and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
In the weeks leading up, she started getting paranoid of everyone around her. When someone's on medication for any sort of mental illness and then they just suddenly stop taking these medications,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
symptoms can be even worse as the body is withdrawing from these drugs we do know that before this she would let everyone know that she was about to have an episode and she was about to go off the grid and would check in with everyone after she did go off the grid but with her symptoms being possibly far worse than they were before Maybe this time she just didn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Maybe her psychosis was getting so bad to the point where she just didn't think to check in or maybe even worse, She didn't check in because she thought those around her wanted to kill her or harm her in some sort of way. This theory definitely makes sense when you look at the timeline as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She was seen on surveillance looking paranoid and buying all of these random things, including alcohol to self-medicate. There were multiple witnesses who said she was saying incoherent things like calling one of them mommy and laying in the middle of the road being argumentative. She was seen wandering around so many different places, so
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She would leave for days at a time, but she usually brought her phone with her. During these episodes, which typically lasted for two to three days, would answer some text messages and usually act extremely apologetically. She would come back from these episodes extremely exhausted and would just come home and sleep for hours and hours and hours. This was the cycle for Deanne for a while.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
It's not unlikely that she could have just wandered off so far, somewhere that nobody has thought to look. Maybe she had wandered off somewhere to where she has no idea where she is and is just part of the homeless community somewhere. She could easily be overlooked if she was homeless, so it makes sense why there had been no recent sightings of her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, the thing that points me away from her just walking off forever is the fact that after the Randy sighting, no one saw her again. If she was going to wander off so far, I definitely think that at least someone would have spotted her before she got too far. She was going up to people and talking to them, so
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I think it's extremely unlikely that after this incident she just didn't talk to anyone else. If she, you know, hitched a ride somewhere and they drove her out really far, I don't understand why this person wouldn't come forward unless they did something to her. Also, these episodes always came to an end at some point. Yes, they could have been even longer after she stopped taking her meds.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Maybe they were more severe too, but... I don't think that here four years later that she would still be in this mental state. I think that she would have gotten out of this mental state at some point and contacted someone. I don't think that she would choose to just cut off all contact with her children forever. It's possible that she stayed in this state, but I don't think that it's very likely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I also want to point out that she left her cell phone, her purse, basically everything behind. I don't think that she would have gotten very far without anyone seeing her and without any sort of resources. And again, I don't think that she would be in this permanent state of psychosis where she just never decided to contact her children ever again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The next theory is basically the same that she was suffering from a paranoid manic episode and wandered off. but that she passed away because of the elements or something else and had just never been found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
If we believe Randy that they just left Deanne on the side of the road, that means that she could have just wandered off in the other direction and gotten completely lost, you know, didn't realize that she was so close to her home. never found her way back and just succumbed to the elements.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
It was an extremely cold day in Washington and we know that her jacket and her shoes were both found where they had supposedly left her. If she was just walking around with no shoes, no coat, just wandering around in these cold temperatures, Maybe she could have gotten hypothermia or succumbed to the elements that way. Maybe she just wandered off into the wilderness and an animal got her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Maybe she had just never been found. Now, I do think that this theory is possible, I guess, but I definitely do not think this is the most likely. Just like in the last theory, I don't think that she would have gotten very far without a single other person seeing her. Again, there were so many witnesses that saw her before this, so you know, maybe someone isn't coming forward.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
But again, I don't know why someone wouldn't come forward if they didn't do anything to her. Plus, there have been so many search efforts for her and it doesn't seem likely that she would have gotten very far.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, we don't know the exacts of where they looked or how far they looked or, you know, really what they did, I guess, but you'd think that if they assumed that she could have walked off somewhere that they would have searched in a large enough area to where they would have found her if she did walk off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I think that's probably one of the main theories in the police's heads that, you know, she walked off so it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't look, you know, in a big enough radius to where, you know, she could have walked off to. And again, I do think that if she just walked off somewhere and was deceased somewhere, I do think that someone would have found her by now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She would go into these intense, angry, and delusional episodes where she would go off the grid and she didn't want anyone seeing how this was going for her. but she would still respond to people. She would still make sure that they knew she was okay, even if she only texted once in a while or she only answered every so often.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So the next main theory is that in the midst of her psychotic episode, someone took advantage of Deanne and did something to her. Within this theory, there are a few people that we can look into. So the first theory is that the employee at the trading company, a grocery store, did something to Deanne.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
we know that he met diane outside of the knitting factory he took her over to his place they drank and smoked and he dropped her off the next day to never see her again and when mike brought the fire to him when she was missing he acted like you know he may recognize her but he wasn't really completely sure, only to later realize, have an epiphany, that he did know her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Then, after Mike came and searched his apartment, he just left and went to Florida. That was extremely odd. Now, this man did say that he just could no longer afford to live in Spokane and had to move back with his family in Florida, which does make sense, but the timing could not be any more suspicious.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, we do know that there have been multiple people who had seen Deanne long after he last claimed to see her. We know that if Deanne was in this psychotic episode, that if he drove up to the grocery store, left her in his car while he went out to go get cigarettes, that she very well could have just gotten out of the car and walked off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
His story does make sense that he met her outside of the knitting factory because we know that her car was parked nearby. We know that she left her purse and her phone in her car, but she did take her ID and her credit cards with her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
we know that he was honest about where he took her the next morning because multiple people saw her at the grocery store the next morning in my opinion it makes sense that he would be nervous to come forward about spending the night with her right away he was probably nervous that people would look at him as a suspect since he had been under the influence and spent the night with this girl who just went missing right after he saw her
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
If he truly had nothing to do with this, I completely understand why he would be scared to come forward. And again, multiple people saw her after the fact, so unless he came back later and did something to her, I just don't think it's very likely. So the next theory is that Mike Tibbetts, Deann's fiance, was involved in her disappearance.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So we know that Mike did have some questionable actions in the hours and days after Deann's disappearance. First, we know that when he couldn't find her, he did not call police right away. Then, when he was able to track her car down, he didn't really do anything except stand there and wait.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Then when he saw that her credit card was being used, he didn't go to the grocery store and he just kind of hoped that she would have come back. He didn't report her to police as missing for 36 hours. Plus we know that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
you know she left a note that mike won't hand over and he won't hand over her phone we know that instead of turning her car over to police to be searched he chose to just drive it home himself ruining any valuable evidence that possibly could have been found and lastly we know that some people close to diane said that their relationship really wasn't as good as they played it out to be
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She would check in and then come home from these episodes just absolutely exhausted and ready to be herself again. Of course, at this point, her and those around her knew that something was very wrong and She was ultimately diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, again, we know that Deanne did have a history of going off the grid. It's very possible that in the beginning, Mike just thought that that's what this was. He may have thought that he shouldn't go chase after her at the grocery store because you know, she may be gone by the time he gets there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And then maybe, you know, if she was going to go to her car that by the time she got to her car that, you know, they would have missed her then. Maybe like he said, he just assumed that she would come back to her car and he didn't want there to be any sort of possibility of him missing her. I do think that that's very possible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Also, Mike said that the note in Dan's phone are the last things that he has of her and he doesn't want the possibility of police not giving it back to him if he does give it to them. He said that there's valuable photos on the phone and that, you know, of course the note is written in her handwriting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
it makes sense that he would want to hold on to those things, especially since the phone, you know, the phone had just been sitting in the car, so there's not really much valuable information that the police can get from it anyways. And, you know, we do know that driving the car can destroy valuable evidence, but... Maybe Mike didn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
It's very possible that he didn't even think about what he was doing and he just wanted to get her car back home. I don't think that he drove the car with intent of destroying evidence. You know, if I put myself into his shoes and I didn't know much about evidence and investigations,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
probably would have driven the car home too and not even given it a second thought we don't know what was going through mike's head at the time so we can't really judge what he was doing as for not reporting her for 36 hours i do think that that's pretty suspicious and i don't understand why he wouldn't report her right away but again she did have these episodes and maybe he didn't want to cause a big panic and you know
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
create chaos if she was just going to return to her car like he thought she would. Now personally I think that if I knew someone that had a history of doing this I would still report them missing especially if They normally checked in and then, you know, didn't check in this time. But I've never been in this situation. Most of us have never been in this situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So we don't know what we would have done for sure. You know, maybe she had a history of these episodes in their relationship where she didn't check in. Maybe, you know, this was a pattern of behaviors that he was used to and he did what he always did. Maybe he didn't want to report it to police right away because he didn't want to be the boy that cried wolf.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, after living with this disorder and having no idea what was going on, Deanne started using other methods to self-medicate, which I think is completely understandable. I mean, Imagine going into these uncontrollable fits of rage and knowing that she was going to hurt those around her, but she just had absolutely no idea how to control it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He didn't want to keep making these reports every time that she went off the grid if they would always result in her just coming back. And then, you know, lo and behold, something happens to her later. He made all these reports before. Now no one wants to, you know, search for her because she always comes back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
In my head, that makes a lot of sense for why he wouldn't want to report her missing to police right away. And as for Dan saying that Mike drugged her, it's very possible that their relationship was not as good as they said it was behind closed doors. But we also know that she was acting extremely paranoid and was getting suspicious of everyone around her and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The doctor even confirmed that she did not have those drugs in her system, especially with the entire timeline of witnesses seeing her and surveillance footage. I just do not think this theory is very likely. The last theory is that, of course, Randy Riley and his friend James did something to Deanne. I definitely think that this is the most likely theory.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
For one, we know that they were the very last people to have known to be seen with Deanne alive We know that Randy had stolen her credit cards. He used them. He threw her license to throw police off and took her jacket and shoes. He also lied and changed his story of what he was doing with Deanne multiple times and James' story didn't even match up with any of the stories he was giving.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Lastly, we know that in a panic, James messaged Amanda and said that he had information, but when he actually spoke to Deanne's brother, changed his mind and didn't give up any new information. To me, that's very telling behavior of someone who was feeling extreme guilt but just doesn't know exactly how to handle the situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Maybe he was feeling this guilt and it changed his mind because he didn't want to get in trouble or maybe he told Randy that he was going to tell everyone and Randy threatened or silenced him. People in this theory believe that they either took advantage of her to rob her and use her credit card, or they actually did something to her and her body has just never been found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I personally think that both possibilities can be very likely. Again, we know that he was using her credit card and threw her license to throw police off. It's very possible that they noticed this girl in a very distorted state and just saw her as someone that they could take advantage of and rob. Maybe when they were in the bushes, Randy took this chance to rob her and he left her there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Maybe when he went to the bushes to try and rob her, she fought back and he harmed her in that way. Or maybe he did something even worse to her in those bushes. Maybe he saw her in this distorted state and wanted to take advantage of her in some other way. Maybe when she was in these bushes, he saw it as a chance to make sexual advances towards her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
James said that, you know, they were in these bushes for 10 minutes. Maybe Randy made sexual advances towards Deanne. She resisted and he harmed her. We know that Randy returned to the scene the next day and just happened to find the jacket and shoes. He said that the reason he was in this area was because he was moving out of his apartment and he was going to the storage unit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
But who just sees a jacket and shoes laying there and just decides to take them, especially if you know that they belong to someone that you were just hanging out with the day before. Maybe the real reason he went back to this location was because he had harmed her and left her there the day before. He knew he had to do something to conceal the evidence, so that's when he did that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So she did what she could, but of course it made everything worse. She did try to get treatment after initially being diagnosed, but absolutely nothing seemed to work. Because of all of these issues that she was facing, Hayden started living with his dad. However, this did not stop Deanne from being extremely involved and a devoted mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Maybe James knew about all of this and just feels so guilty that he wanted to say something but just feels like he can't. Or maybe James helped Randy conceal this whole thing and he knows that if he talks, he will go to jail again. I think the behavior of James is very telling of someone who feels guilty. But there is one thing that kind of points away from this theory, which is that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
You know, police did use the sniffer dogs to search the area. And, you know, this is the area that James and Randy were known to have been with Deanne. However, these sniffer dogs did not alert to anything in the area. However, we don't really know if police are absolutely positive that this is the exact area where they were.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
or if it's just something that they kind of gathered from the information they had. We don't really know if Randy and James pointed them to this specific location or if they just think that this is the location. If it's not the correct location altogether, it's possible that's why the sniffer dogs didn't alert there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Or maybe Randy was lying about the whole situation altogether and they were never in the bushes to begin with. Maybe that's what James was going to tell Carson. Maybe James wanted to tell Carson the real location. In my opinion, this is definitely the most likely theory. Again, we know that they were the last people to have seen her alive.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And there's absolutely nothing we know more about this after that. In my opinion, I think Deanne was suffering from a manic paranoid episode because of her bipolar disorder and someone took advantage of her. I personally think that Randy knows a lot more than what he is saying.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And I think that if he would just come forward and tell the whole truth, I think we would know a lot more about what really happened. I think the night that she went missing, she maybe went to the knitting factory to blow off some steam and let loose for the night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
We know that she was just starting a new chapter in her life by going to cosmetology school and, you know, while exciting, this can be extremely stressful. From someone who suffers from bipolar disorder and is going through a huge life transformation while excited,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
you know recently being off of her medication that can be a mixture leading to a severe manic episode so again maybe she was going to the knitting factory to let loose maybe she spent the night with the man and after smoking and drinking you know the mix of drugs just made things a lot worse we know that she wasn't in the right state of mind when she went to the store she bought vodka you know
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She was seen by multiple witnesses who said that she was clearly intoxicated and acting erratically. I think in the midst of all of this craziness, she was taken advantage of. Even with all of these stressful things in her life, I think she was excited and ready to move forward. I don't think she would choose to go off the grid forever like this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And you know, after working so hard for so many years to fight for her children and her life, It just does not seem very likely to me. This case is extremely frustrating and was very preventable. I think it's so unfortunate that this police officer on the scene did absolutely nothing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The officer said that she just seemed to be intoxicated and because there's no public intoxication laws, she just couldn't do anything. However, Deanne was sitting there being defiant and uncooperative with paramedics She was saying all this about, you know, being drugged and kidnapped, and she was saying all these crazy things to the witnesses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She very clearly was not in the right state of mind, yet this officer just let her go. I personally kind of think that this looks like lazy police work. You know, maybe she didn't want to deal with this drunk and belligerent woman, so she just left the scene and thought, you know, nothing more of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
If this police officer I think would have just done her job, this entire thing could have been avoided. If Randy and James would just come out with everything that they know, we might know exactly what happened to Deanne. There are so many things that could have been done to help Deanne. If her insurance company would have just listened to her doctor instead of just seeing her
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She loved her son very much and very much wanted to stay a part of her son's life. After Hayden moved out of Deanne's home, she decided to move in with her brother in Texas. She and her family agreed that she just needed a fresh start, a little bit of a change in scenery, just something to refresh her mind. This change in scenery had some drastic effects on Deanne's mental health.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
you know, as another number, another dollar sign. They could have just provided her with the medication that she so desperately needed. This may have never happened if the police officer on scene just did her job and helped a woman who was so obviously not in the right state of mind. This may never have happened. And again, if Randy and James would just come forward with everything they know,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I think that we would have known what happened to Deanne a very long time ago. This is probably one of the most frustrating cases I have looked into because Deanne was just trying to do well in her life. She was trying to succeed not only for herself but for her children. I genuinely hope that she's out there somewhere and that she's just waiting to be found. Deanne is 5'4 and 130 pounds.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She had blondish brown hair and has brown eyes. She went missing in the Spokane, Washington area. If you have any information about Dan's case, please contact the Spokane Police Department at 509-456-2233. So what do you guys think happened? Do you think Mike had something to do with this, you know, given his questionable behaviors? Do you think that Randy had something to do with this?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Or do you think that she just wandered somewhere off on her own and either died of exposure or is homeless somewhere? Please let me know what you guys think in the comments below. So if you like this video, please make sure to leave me a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Make sure to follow me on Twitter and Instagram.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
I have those linked in the description box below. Also, if you have any case suggestions, please email them to me at rachelshannoncases at gmail.com. which is also in the description box below. If you do comment your case suggestions, I try to screenshot them, but you know, sometimes I forget or, you know, whatever. So they can be lost extremely easily.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
And you know, when I go back to find them later, I can't because I look through the comments and I just can't find the right one with the case suggestion. So if you do have a case that you would like for me to cover, please make sure to send them to that email address. So with that, I hope you guys have a great week and I hope to see you next time. Bye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She started having fewer episodes. She started coming out of her shell and was becoming this outgoing, kind, and energetic woman she once was. She was starting to feel motivated and started taking care of herself and went back to school to become a nursing assistant. While living in Texas and starting to get her life back together again, she met a man named Randy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Randy and Carson had known each other through boot camp and when the two met, there was an automatic spark between him and Deanne. Randy and Deanne started dating and Carson was extremely excited for them because he knew Randy and he liked how well he treated his sister.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
The relationship moved pretty quickly and after six months of dating, the two moved in together and three months after that, the two got married. Before long, they had two children together, a son and a daughter, and things seemed like they were going extremely well for the family. She was absolutely loving motherhood and was feeling like herself again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, she was still struggling with her disorder and over the years her mental health once again started to spiral. The episodes started creeping back into her life and after nine years of marriage, Randy and Deanne ended up getting a divorce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
These episodes put such a huge strain on every relationship that Deanne was in so this was yet again another extremely devastating thing for Deanne to go through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Deanne Hastings was born February 27th, 1980 in Pahrump, Nevada. She had an older brother named Carson and by all accounts, the two had a great childhood and parents who loved them. Carson and Deanne were best friends growing up. They always spent their time together playing outside, playing in the sandbox, and riding their bikes around neighborhood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now with Randy being in the military, he worried that if he did get deployed that Deanne would be the sole caretaker of the children and with her episodes getting worse and worse, they decided the best thing for Deanne and the children was for them to move back to Spokane, Washington in with her mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, even after moving home, her episodes just got worse and worse and it got to a point where Deanne was experiencing the worst episodes that she had ever faced in her entire life. She decided that she needed even more professional help, so she decided to check herself in to an inpatient treatment facility in Idaho. Her two young children stayed with her mother, Patricia.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Deanne just wanted her life back. She wanted to get whatever help that she needed and work as hard as she can so she can return home and be the mother that her children deserved. Her family was extremely excited for her to receive the extensive help that she needed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She responded extremely well to treatment and when she was done, she actually decided to live on her own for a while before moving back home with her mother and children. She needed to learn how to take care of herself before trying to take care of young children. She did live about an hour away from her children, but she stayed in constant contact with them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
was starting to do very well and was finally on a treatment plan that kept her symptoms under control. She was finally starting to act like her old self again. Her family took notice and everyone around her was extremely relieved to see Deanne taking control of her life again. So as Deanne was starting to get back into her life, she met a man named Mike Tibbetts. She'd
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
had an instant connection with Mike and they started dating. Their relationship took off extremely quickly and things progressed extremely quickly. She was so happy to be in this new relationship and would call her brother and tell him how excited she was and she was ready to be married again and was just absolutely so in love. Their relationship was blossoming and they decided to get engaged.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Also around this time, Deanne decided that she wanted to take her life in a new direction and start pursuing a career that she absolutely loved. She decided to enroll in cosmetology school. She had always had a passion for making others feel beautiful and this was the perfect way to show her creative side. At this point, things were going great for Deanne.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
had great relationships with her children. She was about to start this amazing new career and she had a fiance who she was absolutely head over heels for. Her and Mike were living together and were excited to take this next step in their lives. Mike was working as a project manager for an HVAC company and was able to provide for himself and Deanne as she attended school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now before starting school Deanne actually ended up having to change the bipolar medication that she was on. Her insurance did not cover the medication that she was previously taking despite her doctor being absolutely adamant that these medications were essential to her treatment plan. Her old insurance did cover these medications but she had just recently changed insurances and this new one
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
did not cover these medications. So because of this, she wasn't able to be on any sort of medication anymore. Mike did offer to pay for her medication out of pocket, but that just ended up not happening and she just didn't take her medication anymore.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Now, these medications were so important to her well-being and just stopping medications like this can be absolutely detrimental for your mental health. But she had no other choice, so she just did her best to try and stay positive and keep moving forward. Deanne was set to start cosmetology school on November 3rd, 2015. She woke up that morning fluffy-tailed and ready to go.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
When Deanne was in fourth grade, her and her family moved from Pahrump, Nevada to Spokane, Washington. Deanna was described as empathetic and friendly and outgoing and brilliant and fearless. She did extremely well in school. She got good grades, had a bunch of friends, and adjusted to her move from Nevada to Washington extremely well. She was just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
She went to her first day of cosmetology school at the Glenn Dow Academy and had an amazing first day, so... She was ready to go home and relax for the evening. That night, she invited her son Hayden's girlfriend Melanie over for a girl's night. Melanie and Hayden had been having some trouble in their relationship, so
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Deanne just wanted to hang out with her, do her nails, and have some girl time, which I just think is absolutely adorable. Despite her being only 17, Deanne treated Melanie like her daughter-in-law and said that no matter what, Deanne would always see Melanie as her daughter-in-law. And so while they had their girls night, Mike was working the night shift, which was common for him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
So the girls had the house all to themselves. Melanie had later said that Deanne was completely normal that night. She was happy and positive and was just generally excited about life. So Melanie left the house around 9.30 p.m. that night and Deanne asked Melanie to text her when she got home safely, which she did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
Deanne texted Melanie back saying thanks, that she loved her and would see her soon. At around 10 p.m., she texted her son Hayden that she had a good day at school and she hoped that he was proud of her. She sounded completely normal in this message and absolutely nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, when Mike arrived home from work only about an hour after that, he had gotten home to an empty house with a note left behind that Deanne had written. In this note, she said that she had a good day. She did Melanie's nails and she was just heading to the store, which was only about five miles away from their home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He didn't think much of this at first, but when 1130 rolled around and Deanne still wasn't home, Mike did begin to worry. He couldn't figure out why she was taking so long at the store that was so close to them. At this point, Mike just decided to go out and start looking for Deanne, assuming that she may have just had car trouble or something like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
However, he didn't see her car anywhere, and when he got to the store, it was actually closed. He continued looking, but he could not find her anywhere. At around 2.30 AM, Mike realized that he could actually track Deanne's phone. So he did that and then started following the GPS to her phone's location.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
As he was following her GPS, he entered a bit of a more rough neighborhood in Spokane and around 3am, he finally found Dan's car in a public parking lot across the street from a small concert venue and bar called The Knitting Factory. When he got to the car, he went over to inspect it and started looking around and inside the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He didn't think that anything looked out of the ordinary and thought that she must be nearby. However, after searching for some time around the area, he still could not find Deanne anywhere. He tried calling her cell phone, but he realized that her cell phone was still inside of her purse, which was inside of the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Deanne Hastings?
He didn't have any way to get into the car, so he just decided to wait by the car, hoping that she would return. He waited all night, but she never showed up. At around 8.30am the next morning, so November 4th, Mike decided to call the Glendale Academy to see if Deanne had showed up for class, but he found out that Deanne did not show up for her second day of class.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. Or if you're new here, welcome to my channel. So the case that I have for you guys today is a very difficult case because it's such a tragic and horrifying situation to talk about.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
In another situation, she said that they were in the pantry when Michael became so angry that he grabbed her around the neck and choked her. She said that she was afraid that he was going to stop her from breathing and kill her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
However, sources reported that she did walk back her statement a little bit and she said that she didn't actually lose her breath and she didn't sustain an injury from this. But once again, this really scared her. Then in a third situation, she said that they were in the garage when her father grabbed her by her shoulders and shook her. But once again, she did not have any injury from this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
In this same incident, Macy told investigators that Michael would often belittle and yell at his wife and their mother in front of them. She said that Michael would often call her stupid and lazy. She said that she would defend her mother, but when she did so, that just made Michael get angrier.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She said that sometimes Michael would take Tasha's phone away from her to prevent her from being able to leave the house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
When Michael was interviewed, he denied having abused his daughter or Tasha or any of his other children, though he did admit that there was a misunderstanding where he said that Macy had been mouthy and he admitted to getting angry, maybe even losing his temper, saying that he was struggling with his father's death as well as his brother's divorce. So,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
That was basically his excuse for flying off the wall. Then it was reported that he did admit that he had taken his wife's iPad and her cell phone to check her text messages to see if she had said anything negative about his family. He said that he believed that she was talking to her sister about his sister and his mother, so he wanted to read those text messages.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
After Michael was interviewed and police did a follow-up, Tasha asked the authorities if they thought that the family was in danger, to which the officer said that there's no sign of him growing towards violent behaviors. Later, the police said that this incident didn't meet the criteria for being an assault that charges can actually be filed for.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She went on to get married to her husband, Boyd Earle, and the two of them went on to have seven children of their own. She was described as a dedicated mother who made sure to give her all to each and every one of her children so that each of them all felt like the most important thing in her life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
It was stated though that Tasha told investigators that she didn't necessarily want to press charges against Michael, that she was just hoping that this whole thing served as a wake-up call for him. Of course, people in the media and people in the community were upset that police may have missed the warning signs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
However, they did report that they took the report seriously and did a thorough investigation. They released a statement saying, quote, following the procedures outlined in Utah State Code Title 63G Chapter 2 Government Records Access and Management Act, various news outlets requested information regarding previous incidents with the Haight family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
These records with a redaction of private information were provided to these news outlets. This release has resulted in inquiries as to policy and procedures adhered to by law enforcement in connection with these incidents. The Enoch City Police Department takes each report of child abuse and domestic violence seriously and thoroughly investigates each and every allegation reported.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
In regards specifically to Michael Haight, the Inuk City Police Department received information from the Department of Family and Child Services related to allegations of abuse by Michael Haight. Investigators conducted interviews with Macy Haight, Michael Haight, and Tasha Earl Haight concerning the alleged child abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
These interviews were conducted separately and in accordance with best practices where Macy Haight was interviewed separately at the Iron County Children's Justice Center by individuals with specialized training related to child abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
As a part of the investigative process, the Enoch City Police Department staffs all investigations where a CJC interview is conducted with a multi-interagency team that includes DCFS, the CJC, Victims Advocates, and the Iron County Attorney's Office and others. This was done to provide ongoing support for Tasha Earl Haight and Macy Haight.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Once the investigation was completed by the Enoch City Police Department and DCFS, the Enoch City Police Department communicated with the Iron County Attorney's Office and reviewed the details of the investigation. After this review, it was determined that this case did not meet the elements required by statute for prosecution. A lethality assessment was completed with Tasha Haight.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Her responses to the lethality assessment did not indicate a lethal relationship. So basically what they're saying is that After their thorough investigation, talking to everybody involved, they just did not think that there was any lethality to this. They did not think that a fatal incident like this would have occurred. So that is what we know about this case so far.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She loved traveling, playing the piano, and making quilts, and she was dedicated to her faith at the LDS Church. Tasha Earl Haight was born on January 19, 1982. She graduated from Moab Valley High School in 1999 and then went on to Southern Utah University, graduating in 2004 with a bachelor's degree in child development.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
I am so so sad about this tragedy once again and it definitely should not have happened. My heart hurts for the family and especially those children. I'm really looking forward to hearing more that comes out after this case as a more detailed timeline comes out as well as the autopsy reports. but that is where I'm going to end the case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
It is obviously frustrating that the police couldn't have prevented this. I obviously wish the police could have done more to help Tasha and her family and give them the resources to get out of there if they needed to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
And I just wish that, you know, with this history of abuse and knowing that these violent outbursts had happened, that once she filed for divorce, I just wish something could have been done to protect her. I don't know what she thought was going to happen with this divorce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
We don't know why this divorce was even filed, but if I would assume or I would guess, I would think that it has something to do with these outbursts and with his behaviors that obviously she was getting very, very tired of. so I just wish more could have been done once, you know, something like this was going to happen, once he was going to be, you know, on the receiving end of divorce papers.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
I just wish more could have been done, but I am looking forward to hearing more about the investigation that comes out about this, if he did have any more, like, serious behaviors in the days before this other than just removing all the firearms from the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
I'm really looking forward to hearing anything else that comes out about this, but I'm hoping that they don't just close up this case because of the fact that the perpetrator is dead. I hope that we find out more and I hope that they release more information. So that is where I'm going to end this case and that is where I'm going to end today's video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put a new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Don't forget to turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you go ahead and follow me on Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure to go ahead and fill out the Google form that I have listed down below. With that, I hope you guys have an amazing week. Stay safe, stay healthy. and I hope to see you next time. Bye!
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
The family describes that Tasha loved making homemade fresh bread for her children and she was known for how perfect and delicious her homemade bread was. Tasha was a huge planner, planning everything from talking to her children about what she wanted them to say when she eventually passed away to the day-to-day comings of family life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
But I wanted to come on here and tell you guys about this case because while it's still a very recent case, I wanted to bring this to your attention because this seems to be a huge issue right now. women and children are dying and fathers are killing their families and it's just such an unspeakable tragedy that's happening right now and this case is a very good example of that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Tasha had a very deep love for nature and she grew up with her mother, Gail, passing down the teachings from the LDS church. Because of this, Tasha grew a deep love for her church and she took after her mother in making sure to never miss a scripture lesson. Tasha's siblings described that Tasha was an incredible mother who constantly sacrificed everything for her children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She taught her children kindness, love, service, and dedication to the gospel of the church by living through example. Tasha especially loved her role that she had with serving as president for the young woman group in her local church. She taught so many young girls who really looked up to her and she cherished the time that she got to spend with them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She had so many goals and aspirations in her life, but being the best mother she possibly could was the biggest joy in her life. 17-year-old Macy, the oldest of five children, was born on October 13, 2005. She was known for being a huge help to her mother when it came to raising her four younger siblings.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She always played games with them, helped them with their homework, helped them with their chores, and helped them get ready for bed. She was set to graduate from high school this year, in 2023. She had planned on going to her parents' alma mater, Southern Utah University, working towards a degree in digital marketing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She liked teasing others and her family, but she always reminded others that it was said with love. Her favorite color was yellow and she had always looked forward to becoming a mom someday. She too was active in the church and she had many friends at school. 12-year-old Briley was born on September 28, 2010. She was described as kind, thoughtful, and tender-hearted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She was always thinking of others. She was described as a master at the piano and the cello and she actually memorized all of her musical pieces. She was known to constantly be singing or humming. She wanted to grow up to be a librarian because she absolutely loved reading books. She would literally read all day if she was allowed to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She would always recount her favorite plots and she couldn't wait to tell others the best part of each book so that they could be excited about reading that book too. She loved spending time with her friends and going to church when she wasn't reading or listening to music. Seven-year-old Ammon and Sienna were born on June 21st, 2015. Ammon was described as being a smart, logical young boy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
He was known for loving jokes and riddles. He was imaginative, curious, and he loved to learn about anything that moved. He loved building Legos and had just finished making a Lego model of the Titanic, which he was so excited about getting just that previous Christmas in 2022. His twin, Sienna, was described as having a bright, vivacious personality.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
She loved to take pictures with her camera and put funny filters on them. She was very studious at school, and she loved everything about cats, even dressing up as a cat every year for Halloween. She also loved riddles and jokes, and she had a deep love for her friends and especially her sisters. The youngest, four-year-old Gavin. He was described as having just this most mischievous grin.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
He was rambunctious and he loved to get into trouble and you always had to wonder what kind of trouble he was going to get himself into. He was always coloring all over the walls of the family home. A family member said that there weren't picture frames all over the walls, it was murals that Gavin made.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
They would paint the walls to cover the drawings and he would just draw right over them once again. He loved superheroes. He was very affectionate with family members describing that his hugs were like football tackles. He loved to give and receive tickles and his little smile could just light up your world.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
So with that being said, let's just go ahead and get started with this case. So 40-year-old Tasha Haight was married to a 42-year-old man named Michael Haight who worked as an insurance agent. According to his obituary, which we will discuss more in a few minutes, Tasha and Michael met while attending Southern Utah University, and they became married on May 10, 2003.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Now, from the outside, as you can imagine, the family seemed like your typical small town family. They went to church. They were very devout in their faith. They were active in the community and their children were known around the high school and in the community. However, there was more going on behind the scenes that made it seem that the family wasn't all that it seemed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
By December 21st, Tasha Height filed for divorce. By December 27th, her lawyer served Michael with the divorce papers. We don't know the details of why she filed for divorce or anything like that as those records have been sealed right now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
We do know that per Tasha's reporting at this point, Tasha had never expressed any fear of her husband or made any sort of accusations of being physically abusive or anything like that as far as her lawyer knows, though I will note that her lawyer only really met up with her I think two times before all of this happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
However, there are other things that may have been going on behind the scenes that we will discuss in just a few minutes, but either way, by the morning of January 4th, 2023, Tasha was sent to attend an appointment. I'm not exactly sure what the appointment was, but of course she did not show.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
This was unusual enough for her that the person that she was meeting with actually called the authorities and requested that they do a wellness check for her. However, The officer that arrived to the home, he walked into something that was the absolute worst possible case scenario that someone could walk into.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
I can't even imagine thinking like, oh, she probably just slept or she probably is just out and forgot about the appointment, but walking into what this officer walked into. This officer found that the entire family had been murdered, all by apparent gunshot wounds. Tasha, Macy, Briley, Ammon, Sienna, Gavin, Tasha's mother Gail, and Michael were all dead.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Right away, it was clear to the police that Michael had shot every member of this family before taking his own life. once again we don't know the exact reasons as to why but people have suspected that it could have to do with the fact that tasha just filed for divorce two weeks prior to this of course after finding out about this horrible tragedy the community as a whole were absolutely devastated
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
No one in this small town could wrap their head around how or why something like this could happen. Mayor Jeffrey Chestnut gave a statement saying that Enoch is a very close community. No one wants to leave the area because the people there are so close to one another. He said, quote, Every student at Iron County School District were all affected by the deaths.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Every student knew one another, and so did the staff. They all knew the students. And again, all of these children grew up together because it was such a small, tight-knit community. School officials said that even students in schools that the children did not attend were reeling just because of how many people knew the Haight family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
However, after all of this came out, the community and those on social media were all outraged at the obituary that was posted for Michael. After murdering his entire family, including his mother-in-law, the obituary wrote a long paragraph about how great of a person he was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Initially, it started off by talking about his early life, saying that he loved playing sports like baseball, basketball, and soccer. He was an Eagle Scout who loved doing outdoor activities. They talked about how he was so involved in his church, going to various countries for his missions trips. I'm not going to read all of that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
And together, they welcomed five children. A 17-year-old named Macy, 12-year-old Briley, 7-year-old twins Ammon and Sienna, and 4-year-old Gavin. They all lived in a home in the small town of Enoch, Utah, which has a population of around 8,000 people and is located just outside of Cedar City in southern Utah. The children attended a public school in the Iron County School District.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
I'm just going to summarize it here because I don't think that that part deserves to be told whatsoever. But after that, it gets into the real meat of this monstrosity. It lists each one of the children as well as when the two of them got married. After that, it reads, going on side-by-side rides, doing home improvement projects, sledding, and much more. Michael lived a life of service.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Whether it was serving in the church or in the community, he was willing to help with whatever was needed. Michael owned and operated a successful insurance agency, receiving many awards and honors for his achievements. Many of his clients loved and appreciated the care and attention that he gave to them. Michael recently sold his business to spend more time with his family."
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
And a lot of the comments on his obituary were of past clients and people who knew him outside of his family just talking about how great of a person he was, how, you know, he took so much time and care with their insurance claims and as clients and things like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
And as you can imagine, people were really upset at the fact that people were referring to Michael as a family man who made sure to spend time with his family when he literally murdered all of them. People were upset that his clients were going on there and vouching for him and talking about how great of a person he was, even though he just murdered his entire family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
To me, he lost his status as a family man who loved his family and spent time with them when he murdered all of them. Especially on social media, people were absolutely outspoken about how ridiculous it was that this was even posted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
In response, the website that originally posted it, The Spectrum, apologized for posting it, saying that, you know, it's funeral homes that typically write these obituaries and send them to them to post. It has since been removed, but of course, there are problems. posts of this all over social media. So that's how I was able to read the obituary.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
So now let's talk about the other aspects of this case that shows that this may have been something that was brewing behind the scenes for quite a while. So we know that this family had several guns and they were trained with them to protect themselves. It turned out that two weeks before the murder-suicide, Michael had removed all of the guns from the house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Tasha told family members of this and they aren't exactly sure how she felt about this or what she thought about this. But some friends and family members have said that they think that Michael did this on purpose in order to make it impossible for the family to defend themselves since, you know, Tasha and her mother were very well trained with firearms for personal protection.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
They reported that they had these guns to protect their own lives. Once again, the family said that they didn't know what Tasha thought about the removal of the guns, but it left the family vulnerable. Because the authorities aren't exactly sure how the whole situation took place, they don't know if having the guns would have protected them from Michael.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
However, once again, Gail and Tasha were both trained gun owners, so many people think that they would have survived had they had their own firearms for protection. The fact that this happened literally two weeks before this murder-suicide took place makes me think that, you know, he was finding out about the divorce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
He was served with the papers and then immediately removed the firearms from the home and was planning on a day that he was going to carry out this entire thing. But either way, the family stated, quote, protective firearms were purposely removed from the home prior to the incident because all adults were properly trained to protect human life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
This is the type of loss that will continue to occur in families, communities, and this nation when protective firearms are no longer accessible. They've also said that they want the media focus on their family to be around the loss of life and how precious life is rather than using this for a political matter for, you know, gun control and things like that, which I do understand.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
The school was described as all being close to one another, being described as a place where schools become families. They were also members of the Church of the Latter-day Saints, and the family were very, very devout in their beliefs. Tasha's mother, Gail Earle, was born on May 30, 1944, in Leverkin, Utah, and she was the youngest of seven children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
Nobody wants to see, you know, their tragedy being used politically. I personally wouldn't, whether it be on either side. I wouldn't want to use a tragedy in my life as something political, right? for a party to gain off of. So I do understand that. And so that is all I'm going to say about that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
You guys can say what you want in the comments, but that's where I'm going to leave it out of respect for the family. Then it also came out that in 2020, Michael was actually being investigated for child abuse, though he was never charged. However, it came out that Macy Haight told authorities that her father had been assaultive with her a few times over the past few years.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
With this incident and reporting, both Macy and her mother were interviewed separately from each other and separately from Michael, and he too was interviewed in all of this. Macy reported about three different incidences that had occurred over the course of three years, saying that she was terrified that her father was going to hurt her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Father Murders Family and Obituary Praises him as "Family Man"? THE DEVASTATING HAIGHT FAMILY MURDER
In one incident, she said that they were in the family's piano room where Michael became so angry that he grabbed her by the shoulders and then shook her and then banged her head into a wooden piece along the back of the couch. She wasn't seriously injured with this. She wasn't injured at all, but obviously this left her terrified.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Shocking Case of Ezra McCandless and Alex Woodworth
Und für Quartal 2 sehen wir anhand des Graphen... Hey, hier sind wieder deine Bauchkrämpfe. Mit Schmerzen und Blähungen. Stopp! Ich will mich auf meine Arbeit konzentrieren und nicht auf meine Verdauungsprobleme. Zum Glück hilft Digestopret mit Pfefferminzöl bei ständigen Darmproblemen. Ruhe im Darm, Freiheit im Alltag. Digestopret. Hol dir alle Infos auf digestopret.de.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Shocking Case of Ezra McCandless and Alex Woodworth
Digestopret ist ein zugelassenes pflanzliches Arzneimittel bei Reizdarmbeschwerden. Hallo alle, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück auf meinem Kanal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Hello everybody, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. So the video that I have for you guys today is yet another case that involves intimate partner violence, so if that's a subject that's especially sensitive to you, then this video may not be for you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
And in that moment, police said that they realized that Victoria truly did not understand the extent of what she did to Tawny. Police said that Victoria just kept asking them if Tawny was okay, saying that she didn't mean to hurt her, she just wanted to scare her. She didn't even know how many times she ended up stabbing her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
That next day, Lacey realized that she hadn't heard from Tawny that entire night. So, she called Donna to ask her if Tawny had ever gotten home that night, and that's when she realized that she hadn't. Of course, Donna immediately panicked and asked Lacey what was going on and that is when she told her that she thinks that Victoria did something horrible to Tawny. Shortly after that, by 10 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Now, even though all of the friends were partaking in using the drug, her friends were older than her, therefore they would face a harsher punishment than her. So, Tawny took full responsibility for the entire thing, said that everything belonged to her, so she got charged with possession of a controlled substance,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
on October 18th, police showed up to Donna's house to tell her what happened to Tawny. Now, a lot of the details of what exactly happened has been reported differently depending on the source that you look at.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
So some of these details may be a little bit off, and if you go and research this case yourself, some things might be reported differently than what I'm saying in the video, but I'm sort of just going off of what I've seen the most. So turns out the two had started arguing and gotten into a fight when they were driving along Interstate 15 after dropping off Lacey.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, it's been reported differently, but from what I understand, I think Tawny was driving while Victoria was in the passenger seat. Then their argument started escalating and again, this has been reported differently. Some articles say that they pulled into a parking lot after the argument started escalating while others said that this was happening all as they were driving.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
But either way, this argument turned physical and Tawny slapped Victoria and pulled her hair and Victoria just absolutely lost control. So Victoria took out her four-inch pocket knife and just started stabbing Tani over and over and over again. Upon later autopsy testing, turns out Tani was stabbed a total of 46 times to her hands, her forearms, her face,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
her head, her neck, her chest, and even her ears. Then after stabbing her, it's believed that Victoria moved Tani over to the passenger seat of the car and then drove the car from where they were parked to a different location to a church in Ogden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, I'm not exactly sure because it's been reported differently, so I'm not sure if they went straight to that church parking lot, but what I've seen the most is that they were parked in a different parking lot when the stabbing actually occurred And then after moving Tawny over to the passenger seat, Victoria got in the driver's seat and then drove the car over to this church.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
After she parked at the church, she called her sister Cindy to tell her everything that just happened. Victoria asked her sister to come over to the church that they had gone to growing up at 2484 East Avenue in West Ogden, Utah.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
at first her sister didn't know what to think and she didn't think that she was serious but she quickly realized that there was a lot of urgency behind her voice and she quickly realized that this was serious so she rushed over to the church and saw that tani was dead inside the car And she immediately called 911. So Victoria was taken in and charged with first-degree felony murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
which is a class b misdemeanor so because of this she was sent to 90 days in a juvenile treatment facility this really scared her and her parents because while she was just a normal teenager who maybe got into trouble once in a while just as so many other teens her age do The people that were in the facility with her were much harsher offenders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
At the preliminary hearing, she pled not guilty and had actually threatened to take her own life. So police started gathering their evidence and they built up a pretty solid case against her. So ultimately, Victoria did end up pleading guilty to charges of first-degree murder. When she appeared in court, she said, quote, I understand why they're hurt. I'm hurt as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I have no excuse for what I've done and that's why I pled guilty. I did knock out her tooth, but her family tried to help cover it from Casey. I don't have anything else to say. I'm in the wrong here. I know I'm the monster. A lot of sources that I read left that middle part out, basically only reporting that she pled guilty and called herself a monster.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
But what they don't report is that she just had to slide in that thing about how her family helped cover up for her. So basically they're making her look like that she's so sorry and that she knows she's a monster and she pled guilty and- all of this, but what they didn't report is how she just had to slide in this little thing about how Tawny's family helped cover for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
So to me, that's basically her saying, yeah, she's the monster, she's guilty, but the family is also guilty. I don't know, but I don't think she felt bad, and it's a little bit frustrating that all of the sources that you'll read will basically just say that she pled guilty and called herself the monster. a lot of sources don't even bring up how she originally pled not guilty.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
So that's kind of just a small example of why you need to watch the actual court proceedings for yourself before making a judgment on what people are reporting. But either way, Donna said that during this entire thing, Victoria didn't even look at her. She didn't cry once. She just really didn't seem like she felt bad for any of this. Again,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I personally think that the only reason she pled guilty is because she knew that there was no way she was gonna get out of this. I don't think she pled guilty because she just felt bad. I don't think her conscience was suddenly coming into play when she pled guilty. I definitely think that she just knew she couldn't get out of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
During the victim impact statements, Tawny's aunt said, quote, "'Jealousy is the devil. It will kill. It's Vicky's fault. She stabbed her and killed her.'" Why should she get one free day to be with the trees in the sky when Tawny cannot? Victoria's demeanor throughout this entire thing really hurt Tawny's family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
They could not believe that somebody that they took in, treated as their own, and loved and cared for so much would just turn around and murder Tawny and then go on to show no remorse or emotion at the hearing. It's just absolutely disgraceful. So she was handed a sentence of 16 years to life for the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
The Board of Pardons determined that Victoria would not get a chance for parole until after serving 24 years in prison. Tawny's family continues to talk about just how much regret they have for not doing more to help Tawny.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
donna said that for the longest time it just seems like two girls fighting and bickering and they would always make up even after she suspected that victoria was the one who knocked tani's tooth out she thought that the two had made up and that something like this would never happen again she said that her biggest regret is not seeing this as a sign that victoria is capable of doing so much more casey her father has come out to talk about just how important it is to talk to family members about domestic violence
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
She was with people who sold heroin, had assault charges, and everything in between. She was terrified, and so was her family. But while there, she met a girl named Victoria Mendoza, and the two hit it off immediately. Now, Victoria had her own troubled background, and she had been in and out of juvie more than once. And she did have quite the rough upbringing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
and report things even if they're not 100% sure that something's going on. Even if you just suspect that something might be happening, it's best to try and help the situation rather than just assume that it's nothing. This is something that they had to learn in the hardest way possible. He also came out and said that he regrets not recognizing the red flags sooner.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I know we've been talking about this a lot the past few weeks on my channel, but it's such an important issue to me and it's so important that I talk with you guys about it, so that's why I've been covering these cases. Today we are going to be discussing the murder of Tawny Bard.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, the entire family, including Tawny's parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
all of them loved victoria and none of them thought that she was even capable of doing anything like this to tani and those are the reasons that i wanted to cover this case i know that i've been talking about domestic abuse a lot on this channel for the past few weeks but the more that i look into these cases the more i feel the need to shine a light on these horrific situations the last two cases of domestic violence that i've covered on this channel have involved situations of men hurting women
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Obviously, one of them was more alleged and it wasn't as more physical violence, but a lot of times when we think of these cases, we think of the men being the aggressor. But what people need to realize is that domestic violence can happen in any relationship and anybody can be the perpetrator no matter their gender or sexual orientation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I think it's really important to highlight what Donna said about this. I'm not blaming her whatsoever and I never want her or anybody else to think that she is in any way at fault for any of this. In fact, I think that she's a truly amazing and wonderful woman for taking in Victoria and caring about her so deeply.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
not a lot of parents would do that and that is just so amazing that she went so above and beyond to be so kind and accepting towards a young woman who truly needed it. but i do think it's important to point out what she said about her thinking that this was just two girls fighting. of course to some people that doesn't seem very life-threatening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
i fought with my sisters and even had physical fights with them. we've chased each other around, hit each other, all kinds of stuff. And parents never think that anything else beyond that will happen. But being a female does not mean that you are incapable of violence. And just because a relationship involves two women doesn't mean that there's no possibility of violence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
And that is what I wanted to highlight by doing this video. It's so important to recognize that intimate partner violence can happen to anyone and by anyone, male or female. Yes, it's more common for male to be the abuser, that's just a statistical fact. But if someone is exhibiting signs of domestic abuse, whether they're gay, lesbian, bisexual, or straight, something should be done.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Talk to that person, let them know that you're a safe place for them, and take what they have to say seriously. And if someone does confide in you that they're afraid, you shouldn't just assume that they're gonna leave that person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, I'm not pointing fingers at absolutely anybody in this situation, but just as a general statement, if someone is with somebody and they express that they're afraid, then go on to just stay with that person and post as if everything is normal. Don't assume everything is better just because they stayed. Because again, we know that things like this are a vicious cycle.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
They want people on the outside to think that everything is perfect.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
perfect they want to keep posting everything amazing that happens in their relationship because of course they're not going to post their fights they're not going to post the disturbing things that are going on behind closed doors nobody would and especially if someone is trying to control someone and control the narrative you might think that this is just the most amazing person ever but a lot of times that's exactly what they want you to think
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
So her family moved to the States from Mexico, and they didn't have a lot of money, so they lived in a one-bedroom apartment, and they just barely scraped by. Then, when Victoria was only 10 years old, her father took his own life. So she, in her own words, went a bit crazy and she ran away from home, started getting into fights, which is what led her to be in and out of juvie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Abusers will oftentimes go out of their way to make themselves look like this amazing person to the victim's family and friends to make them think that, hey, this person could never hurt my loved one. They would never do anything to hurt them. So even if I think that there might be some signs, there's probably nothing going on because I just love this person so much.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
That's exactly what they want you to think and that's what they want the victim to think too. They want them to think that everything's going to be better and that if they just stay with them a little bit longer that things will get perfect and that they'll be the perfect partner that they've always wanted. But it always comes to a point where they realize that nothing's going to change.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
They've been trying to convince you of this narrative for so, so long that after nothing changes for enough time, the victim starts realizing that this isn't going to change. I don't want to be stuck in this anymore. And I feel happy when I'm with my friends. I feel accepted when I'm with them. And I don't feel that way with my partner.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I think it's really, really good that Tawny didn't let herself be pulled away from her friends. I think it's really good for her that she still maintained those relationships and especially with her parents.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I think that's really good that she was able to maintain those relationships and that she fought back and that she thought, hey, Victoria, I'm not going to let you take my friends away from me. But unfortunately, I think that's also what caused Victoria to be so jealous. I think that's what caused her to lose complete control.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I think again that she saw her being happy with her friends that day and was really upset with something probably very small that she did and realized that I might not get her back. She is happy and I'm not. And if I can't be happy with Tawny, if Tawny can't only be happy with me, then she's not going to be happy with anybody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, this is just yet another case where the abuser could tell that they were losing control over the victim. And I know I'm gonna get a lot of comments about how Tawny was just as much of an abuser as Victoria because she was heading back. She was fighting back and she was dishing out her own and obviously physical violence is never okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
The times that Tawny hit Victoria, those situations are not okay just because Victoria went and did something worse. But at the end of the day, Tawny is the victim here. I do think that Victoria was very manipulative
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I think she was trying to control Tawny, and Victoria pretty literally inserted herself into Tawny's entire life, made her parents love her, made her friends love her, and I feel like that can be very, very isolating. Even if she's still close with her friends and her family, I think that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Tani might have gotten to a point where she realized everybody loves Victoria and they all see this great thing in her. I should be seeing that too. I don't want to get rid of Victoria if all my friends and family love her so much. I don't want them to have anything against me because... I took Victoria away from them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, this is just me sort of rambling at this point, but I do want to point out just how this entire cycle can go. Tani started to confide in friends what was happening and she started to pull away. So before she had the chance to leave, Victoria ended her life. And again, she made sure that if she couldn't have Tana, nobody could. So that is where I'm going to end today's video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I do apologize for all the rambling I did and trying to you know, dissect the relationship. But I do think that it's very, very important to highlight. I think it's important to highlight in any type of relationship that this type of thing can happen. And I think it's really important to highlight to you these psychological aspects that can go on in these cases as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
She had also been going through a lot of very difficult things when her and Tawny met. She had just found out that her mother had been diagnosed with cancer and she took the news very, very hard, just as anybody would. She was really sad that she was stuck in juvie and couldn't be there for her mother while she was fighting for her life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Because again, a lot of people will question, well, why didn't they just leave this person? Why did they stay for so long, especially after she punched her in the face? That's on her. But I want people to understand that it's so much deeper than that. There's so much going on than what you see on the surface. That is why these things even happen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
That's why this cycle just keeps going for so many people. Again, I know that this video and a couple of my past videos have been really tough to sit through, but they're so important to talk about. I know that I keep bringing up domestic violence. I know I keep reiterating these points to you guys, but I cannot express how important this is to me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I cannot express how important it is for you to keep an eye out for your friends and your loved ones and to make them know that you are a safe place for them and that you will help them if they need it. You don't know just how much you can help someone who's suffering in silence just by being a shoulder to cry on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Now, Victoria sort of took Tawny under her wing and made her feel safe while in the facility. Tawny and Victoria grew extremely close during their time there, and they bonded over their shared love for writing and creating music. So, ultimately, the two did start a relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
At one point, Tawny's mother came to visit her at the juvenile center, and that is when she came out to her mother and was so excited to introduce her to Victoria. Her mother was completely accepting of her, and she was actually really excited that she had met someone in juvie who was sort of protecting her and who she had bonded with. Then, by August of 2010, Tawny was released.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
It was about a month later before Victoria was released in September of 2010. But the two had such a close relationship that during the month that they were apart, they were constantly writing each other love letters. And they promised each other that they would not see anybody else while they were apart. Once Victoria got out, Tawny was so excited to introduce her to everyone in her family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Her father's knee-jerk reaction upon meeting her was a little bit surprised because the two seemed like polar opposites. Tawny was very outgoing and sweet and flirty, while Victoria was more tough and rough around the edges. But very quickly, Victoria grew on Tawny's family, and they took in Victoria with open arms. Everything with them seemed to be going amazingly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Tawny Bard was born on June 17th, 1993 to her parents, Donna Anderson and Casey Bard, and she lived in Holiday, which is right outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. She was described as a very friendly and outgoing person. She had so many friends who absolutely loved her. Her parents described her as being a natural leader and a very hard worker.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Tawny's parents even once said that they loved Victoria so much that they considered her as basically their own daughter. Now, Tani and Victoria were quite literally glued at the hip. They wanted to spend every waking moment together. They would hang out with Tani's friends together, and her friends said that they could just see that the two had such an amazing connection.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
And they seemed like they were always in sync with one another, and they would go out dancing together. They were constantly posting pictures of each other together, and they seemed like they had the most perfect and amazing relationship. But as we hear in so many of these cases, the two did have their problems. They argued. A lot. Victoria had a lot of problems with being jealous and insecure.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
And Tawny had her jealous side as well. The two were very codependent and it seems like Victoria was jealous of basically every other relationship that Tawny had in her life. She was always wondering if Tawny was going to go back to liking guys and was constantly worried about her cheating on her. It seemed like pretty much everybody that Tawny talked to, Victoria was threatened by.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Victoria would see a guy commenting on Tawny's social media and would accuse Tawny of cheating on her with this guy and would always just assume the worst of everybody in Tawny's life. It actually got so bad that Victoria went and cheated on Tawny with one of Tawny's best friends. She just basically said that this was to get back at her for allegedly cheating on her first.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
But I will say that as far as I have seen, I don't think Tawny ever actually cheated. It seemed like Victoria was just so paranoid that she convinced herself that Tawny was cheating that she felt like she had to get back at her. And of course, after finding out that Victoria had cheated, Tawny was absolutely crushed. She was totally heartbroken and actually broke up with her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
But then Victoria had posted a public apology video to her on YouTube. She wanted everybody to know just how sorry she was. She said that she's sorry, that she loves her and would do absolutely anything that it took to get her back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
She had enrolled at the Salt Lake Community College to continue her education and worked at Arnold Machinery in the meantime to make some money and support herself. She worked really hard at her job because she knew that hard work was the only way that she was going to live out her dreams, and she had big aspirations for herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Surprisingly, Tanya saw this and was touched by her apology and she forgave her. So, she took her back. Now, everyone around her was very surprised that she ended up taking her back despite being cheated on. But either way, after this, the two continued their whirlwind romance for a few more years. By June of 2012, Victoria's mother unfortunately lost her battle with cancer and passed away.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, this was incredibly difficult for Victoria to have to deal with and she really didn't have anywhere to go. So Donna, Tawny's mother, took her in and said that she could live with them for however long she needed and she even helped her get a job as a security guard. This was Victoria's first job and Tawny's family was so proud of her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
They actually helped Pei to get some of her more visible tattoos removed and helped her clean up her appearance to get this job. Tawny's dad also went out and bought the uniform that she needed. Tawny's family and friends all loved Victoria and they wanted to do whatever they could to make her feel loved and accepted and welcome and help her become the best version of herself possible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
One day, she wanted to become a famous singer and move to California and watch the palm trees sway in the wind and the ocean waves roll on the sand. Now, Tawny was just like any other teenager, and she liked partying with friends, and she did start experimenting with weed. So, in June of 2010, 17-year-old Tawny had just been driving around and hanging out with friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
The relationship in the family got so close that Victoria even started calling Donna mom. Again, the two were so excited to be so close all the time and to be living together, but behind closed doors, their constant arguing and bickering turned into more physical violence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Victoria became more and more possessive over Tawny and it got to the point where she didn't even want to let Tawny out of her sight. She went as far as hacking into Tawny's messages and social medias to see what she was doing in private. And Tawny was getting so frustrated with all of this that she would fight right back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
The two both seemed to have pretty bad tempers and a lot of their fights would result in both of them hitting each other. Overall, they had a very tumultuous relationship. Donna was aware of all of the fighting and bickering that was going on, but she really didn't know what to do. Donna could see how Victoria was following Tani around and just how unhealthy their relationship was getting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
but Donna just sort of figured that the two were probably just spending too much time together. She thought that once Victoria got working more, once they had spent some time apart, that their relationship would get a lot better, which is totally understandable. I know that a lot of us can probably relate that when you spend too much time with one person day in and day out,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
the fighting becomes more frequent and sometimes you just need some healthy time apart from each other. Spending every waking moment with someone is never good even if you have the most healthy and perfect relationship. Everybody needs a little bit of time apart from each other and going to work and hanging out with friends once in a while is a perfect way to do that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
So again, Donna thought that Victoria getting a job and starting to work was just what they needed and thought that this would make the relationship so much healthier. However, there was one incident where the couple was not at home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
I'm not exactly sure where they were, but the two were hanging out somewhere outside of the home and the two got into an argument and Victoria punched Tawny in the face so hard that her lip was bleeding profusely and she actually knocked one of her teeth out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
When they got home and Tawny looked like she very obviously had just gotten hurt, Donna suspected that Victoria was the one who did this to her, but Tawny begged her not to call police. When her dad Casey found out about this, the two told them that Tawny had just gotten into a fight with other girls. They said that these girls came up to her and then punched her and then just ran off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Again, Donna knew that this probably was Victoria's doing, but I almost feel like they just loved Victoria so much that Even Donna tried convincing herself of this other story. And as far as I know, Casey did not know at any point that Victoria could even have the possibility of being responsible. He had no idea.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
He says that if he knew that this relationship would not have continued, but there's really no way he could have known because nobody told him. Victoria had the family completely convinced, but Tawny's friends actually did know what was going on. She confided in her friends that she was afraid and they thought that she was going to leave her, but she didn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
The two continued posting pictures together and making it look to everybody on the outside that everything between them was just absolutely perfect. So on October 17th, 2014, Tawny and Victoria went over to Ogden, Utah to hang out with some of Tawny's friends, which included Tawny's best friend, Lacey.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
But even as they were all hanging out and trying to have a good time, her friends could tell that there was a bit of tension between Tawny and Victoria. I'm not exactly sure what set her off, but something happened that made Victoria very upset, so she went off into the bathroom and just kind of hung out in there for a while.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
They had been smoking weed that day and had some paraphernalia in the car. Well, as they were driving, they got pulled over by an officer who then smelled the weed in their car and then subsequently searched the car. They ended up finding a bong and weed in the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
According to Lacey, it seemed like Victoria could tell that Tawny was starting to pull away from her. She's very happy when she's with her friends, and to someone who is jealous and possessive as Victoria, that is very threatening. People like her don't want their partner to be happy or close with anybody but them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Victoria seemed to know that she was starting to lose control over Tawny, and she did not like that. So after coming out of the bathroom, Victoria asked Tawny to leave. Tawny was hesitant saying that she was having a good time, but Victoria said that she had work in the morning and that they needed to leave. So they left and they actually did end up driving Lacey home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
Once they dropped Lacey off, the two said their goodbyes. Tawny and Lacey said that they loved each other and the two pulled away to Lacey. This was just a normal day. The two were bickering and fighting just as normal, but this wouldn't end up being a normal day and Lacey would never see her best friend ever again. Shortly after this, by 1 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
on October 18th, Ogden police received a phone call from someone who wanted to report a murder. The caller said that they wanted to report the murder of a girl named Tawny and this caller ended up being Victoria's sister, which I will get more into in just a minute. When police arrived to the scene, they saw Victoria sitting in the driver's seat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
She had blood all over her clothes and her hands and she said that her girlfriend was sitting in the car. Police said that Victoria was very clearly shaken up and panicked. Police asked her if there was a weapon in the car and Victoria admitted that her knife was in the car. When police searched the car, they found that Tawny was inside and she was absolutely covered in blood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Tawnee Baird
It was obvious that something extremely violent had happened inside of that car. And unfortunately, when they examined Tawny, they found that she was already dead and there was nothing that they could do to save her. Of course, they took Victoria in right away and they questioned her about everything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
hello everyone my name is rachel and welcome back to my channel so the case that i have for you guys today is one that i went very back and forth on on whether i wanted to cover it here on my channel it is a solved case and we know everything that happened but i feel that this case was very very sensationalized in the way that it was reported and it kind of made me cringe there is a big aspect of social media in this case which you will see throughout the video but
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
but officers couldn't really make out what was happening in the call and the person wasn't really actually speaking to them. However, as Alexa's call was made, they received other phone calls from other people reporting the same incident at the same location. So what I gather from this is they're just trying to say that Alexa called 911 at the same time that those neighbors were calling 911.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
They also tried figuring out Louisa's communication leading to Alexa's death,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
However, all they really saw, or at least what I saw reported, was that she was in contact with others in the days leading up to the death, but I didn't see anywhere else like what they found, who she spoke to, or if she had complained about Alexa or anything else or said anything that could give them an indication as to why this happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I also saw that they were never able to find Louisa's cell phone. When she was arrested, Louisa told investigators that she had been, quote, doing cocaine with the devil. She also told them that she had taken numerous other drugs as well. She had consumed alcohol, mushrooms, Adderall, weed, and Xanax in the hours before the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She had told investigators that she also had not slept in days at that point. During the interrogation, police say that she was acting very, very strangely. She was making rambling statements about the apocalypse and was reciting the Hail Mary prayer in Spanish over and over and over again. She had also tried several times to fit her entire hand in her mouth.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Investigators who interviewed her said that she admitted to this murder several times throughout the interview but she never gave an explanation for why. There were some parts of the interview where she was acting completely incoherent, but then there were other parts where she was totally with it. She told police that she couldn't even recall parts of the murder or the hours leading up to it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But I will note that investigators said that she did express regrets and remorse for what she had done. Because of all of this, Louisa was charged with second-degree murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Louisa ended up being represented by Radford City's Commonwealth attorney, Chris Rehak, in addition to another lawyer named Blair Howard, who is known for representing other women who commit crimes, one of which being Lorena Bobbitt, who is notoriously known for cutting off her husband's penis and then claiming insanity. of course this lawyer said that due to the combination of
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
All of these drugs that she was taken, in addition to this extreme lack of sleep, she had a psychotic episode where she broke and that's what led to her murdering Alexa. Now, once Louisa was in jail awaiting her preliminary hearing, apparently her behavior was so bizarre that jail staff applied for an emergency custody order.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She played volleyball and loved photography. A friend described her as being a very sweet person with an uplifting personality and a gentle smile. She has two sisters, Emmy and Chloe, who she absolutely adored. Her mother went on to tell this story about how when Alexa was younger, she gave her mother a blue handkerchief and told her to use it when she got scared.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Because of this, she spent a week in a mental health facility and then once returning to jail, She continued trying to shove her entire hand in her mouth and exhibiting some strange behaviors. I've seen a lot reported on these very strange behaviors that she had, but I haven't seen any reported when these behaviors stopped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Because at her first court appearance, she actually waived her right to a preliminary hearing. Her lawyer said that after reviewing the evidence, there is enough probable cause to believe that she was involved in the murder so it's best to just waive the preliminary hearing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Thankfully, Louisa did take responsibility for her actions and she did plead guilty to the second-degree murder of Alexa Cannon. For this, she was sentenced to 40 years in prison with a minimum of 20 years served before being considered for parole. In their plea, they also included that Louisa is not to have any contact with Alexa's family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Chris Rehak said that he worked with Alexa's family to construct this plea deal so that they could be spared of a trial. He released a statement saying quote, this case was extraordinarily unusual and the guilty plea today ends criminal proceedings in this tragic and mysterious event. It was an honor and privilege to represent the life of Alexa Cannon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I worked with her family, who provided thoughtful input and helped to craft the plea agreement terms in which reflect a complex balance of facts, trial options, and proportionality. Perhaps more importantly, the agreement secured a murder conviction, avoided any appeals, and spared Alexa's family and friends the anguish and anxiety of a trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
And based on what we know about this case, I would have to agree. I don't think that there was any way that they were going to prove first-degree murder. I think that would have been too high of a charge to try to obtain. I think second degree murder is the right fit for this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I would have been really upset if they went with like involuntary manslaughter, which is when like your actions cause someone else's death. Obviously it was more than that. I'm glad that they didn't try for insanity plea. I'm really, really happy that Louisa is actually taking responsibility for her actions. Louisa also spoke in the courtroom to apologize for her actions.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She said, quote, there are no words for this tragedy and my heart is filled with sorrow and grief. My heart goes out to the Cannon family. I'm so, so sorry. I take full responsibility for this. Again, I'm so, so sorry for this tragedy. I'd like to thank my parents and friends for being by my side as I'm so thankful. And again, there are no words for this tragedy. Thank you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Her attorney said that there was not a single day that he saw Louisa where she wasn't emotional and very remorseful for her actions. And after listening to her court statements and her apology, I do think that she's sorry. I do think she regrets doing this. That doesn't make this any better.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But honestly, doing these true crime cases and looking into these crimes, it's really nice to see someone actually take responsibility for their actions. Again, I'm so glad that she didn't try to get off on this by claiming the insanity plea. I'm really glad that she looked at what she did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Blue was her favorite color and this was just something so small and sweet that she remembered about Alexa when she was little. Alexa went to Radford University to study psychology and wanted to do whatever she could to help others. In addition to this, she loved everything about music and art and especially interior design. She had a talent for organizing just about anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She knew that she deserved to be in jail for this and she knows that she's the reason that her friend is dead. Again, I don't want to give Louisa too much credit. She viciously murdered Alexa. I do just want to take a moment to point out how horrendous this attack was. It wasn't just that she stabbed her or shot her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She literally stabbed her 30 to 40 times and the reason it's an estimate is probably because they couldn't tell how many times just based on how much she was stabbed and the fact that it was found in her mouth. That is absolutely horrific. That is terrifying. I can't even imagine someone doing that to somebody else. So I don't want to give Louisa any credit, really.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I don't want to give her any credit at all because she's a murderer. but I'm really glad to at least know that she took responsibility for her actions. I personally have no idea what I think could have caused her to have such an intense psychotic break that she kills her roommate like this, but I will say I do agree.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I do think that it is because of the drugs that she was on in addition to the lack of sleep. I think this caused her to act out of character and do this crime. I think maybe she had some
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
severe paranoia or maybe she thought that alexa was after her or maybe she had some really really pent-up anger issues against alexa and for some reason it all came out that one night and was taken out against her maybe there were other things going on in her life that caused her to break and do this it honestly could have been any number of things drugs can do really really weird things to your brain which is why obviously you shouldn't do them
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But if you do, you shouldn't mix them like this and you need to make sure that you're sleeping and that you're being responsible with them. I don't honestly know if I think Louisa is a violent person at her core. I don't know if this is something that she wanted to do. I know, again, that she had some weird behaviors leading up a couple years.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Things in her personality seemed to be changing, but I think that could also be attributed to the drugs that she was taking. I do think that the girls had a lot of love for each other, and I think that something happened that just caused this entire thing to spiral the way it did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Honestly, trying to figure out a reason for all of this seems pretty useless because even Luisa does not know why she did what she did. So beyond that, drugs are bad, obviously. Don't mix them. Do them responsibly. But other than that, that is where I'm going to leave this. So that's pretty much where the case lies. I'm so, so heartbroken for Alexa and her family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
This crime was so random, so horrific, so pointless. The fact that someone can lose their life like this with absolutely no reason and no explanation and nothing causing it really is just So very, very frustrating. Truly. I know we say this about a lot of victims, but truly, Alexa seemed like such a genuine person who just wanted to help others and who truly put others above herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
My heart goes out to her, her family, and everybody else whose life was impacted by Alexa.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
On her first day of school, she had sent her dad a photo of her coordinated outfit, saying that she's so excited to get ready to go for her first day of school. Alexa was also a devout Christian attending Second Presbyterian Church. She went to different service trips with her church and those who attended those trips with her said that she just brought tons of energy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She went on two missions trips to the Dominican Republic and was looking forward to a study abroad experience in Spain so that she could learn and practice her Spanish. Her pastor said, quote, quote, she overcame a good number of challenges in her own life. Alexa was diagnosed with epilepsy at a young age, and she dealt with that issue her whole life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Her condition made school very challenging in so many ways. There was times where she would have seizures during class, which obviously can greatly disrupt your learning. But to add to that, other students in the school would bully her because of her condition. But she moved forward and she lived her life in such a positive way and she didn't let anything get in the way.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
While she was attending Radford University, those around her said that she was very involved in campus organizations and was committed to making Radford an even better university. She was always smiling and encouraging others and putting others above herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
she truly just seemed like such an amazing woman who could absolutely lighten up anybody's life one of alexa's favorite quotes was life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass it's about dancing in the rain and now her family loves that quote because they hold alexa up and in light and love now 20 year old alexa was best friends with a 21 year old girl named louisa cutting
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
whose full name is actually Louisa Einz Tudela Harris Cutting. Louisa is originally from Dallas, Texas before moving to Culpeper, Virginia and attending Culpeper County High School. She also then attended Radford University. She was also known to be a smart and involved student at her school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I feel like a lot of things that were said online are really taken out of context and are used to dramatize and sensationalize the case a lot more than I think it should be. It's a case where there's a lot of clickbaity titles and I can see why a lot of people find it interesting and I can see why so many people spoke on it the way that they did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She spoke fluently in both English and Spanish and was named president of the Radford Latino Student Alliance. Alexa was always so supportive of Louisa and was always posting about her and especially about this accomplishment of her becoming the president. She once wrote on Facebook, So incredibly proud of my best friend Louisa Cutting for becoming Latino Student Alliance president.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I know you're going to be amazing with everything you do. Love you more. In 2016, Alexa and Louisa had originally met online and then they lived across the street from each other in college for about a year. From that point on, they were basically inseparable and they were really close friends and by 2018, they decided to move in together into an off-campus apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
The girls were constantly posting pictures of each other online. always sharing what they were doing, constantly talking about how close they were and how much love they had for one another. In March of 2018, Alexa posted to her Instagram to continue talking about their love for one another.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Alexa wrote, quote, I met this girl two years ago online and somehow we ended up living across from each other for a year. This summer, she was equivalent to my mom in Cancun. and unimaginably she still puts up with me and now we're living together next year. Love you more Lou and everyone pray that we don't kill each other this year.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Louisa commented on the photo saying, love you my love and Alexa wrote back, love you more babe. So this is one of those posts that I feel like a lot of people misinterpreted and sort of sensationalized. A ton of people apparently didn't pay very close attention to who posted this Instagram post because a ton of people commented on the photo saying things like,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
see you were violent and you planned this and you knew this entire thing was gonna happen not realizing that Alexa was actually the one who posted it. So keep that part in mind and also keep in mind that there are a lot of roommates and friends in general who say things like this to each other.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I feel like it's a very common thing especially for siblings to say to one another but if you're living with someone and sharing a space with them you're basically like siblings. My friends for one are constantly joking about that, especially ones that have different living styles. I have a set of friends who were roommates and one was cleaner than the other one.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
One of them did dishes on time and the other one didn't and it drove them both crazy and I'm sure they've said something similar to one another. So I know that for the context of this case, a lot of people look at that post and say, see there, there was her you know, violent behavior, violent past. But I also want you to look at this case and not take anything out of context.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I do understand that there's always a possibility that there was much more going on behind the scenes than we know of, which I will go more into later. But that's just one of those things I want you guys to think about. Think about any time that you've said it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
think about any time that you've joked about it now i don't know the exact photo that she posted for this caption but alexa wrote in another post so guys it's my best friend's birthday so make sure you say happy birthday to her and lou i miss and love you and i'll see you monday and i love you more than life and thank you for being my mom in cancun and making sure that i didn't die and for making sure all my clothes and shoes came back in the room by the end of the night unharmed
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
And thank you for surprising me in the airport, one of the video guys. And being insane with me and not judging me. Love you more, babe." So clearly to me, it seemed like these girls had a pretty good friendship. Alexa supported Louisa through everything it seemed like. And even those around them said that they seemed like the best of friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I even found some podcasts and a couple other videos and just articles in general that covered this case in a way that I just personally didn't really like. But we don't do that on this channel. Call it boring, but here we talk about the victim. We talk about the facts of the case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But now let's talk about another huge aspect in this case. which is the culture around doing drugs and alcohol on college campuses. Alexa was known to sometimes partake in drinking and going to parties at school, and so was Louisa. I think it's safe to say that many people who are in college or graduated from college or went to college in the past
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
maybe found themselves involved in using substances that weren't legal even if they just weren't legal for your age whether it be underage drinking or smoking weed things that are relatively harmless for college students for the most part obviously they can be harmful I don't want anyone to
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
comment saying that i'm encouraging that but some students will find themselves using much more dangerous and illicit drugs whether it be ecstasy molly adderall is a really big one or even harder drugs like cocaine louisa for one found herself drinking a lot and was tweeting all the time about how often she drinks i don't know exactly how much she was drinking or doing drugs
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But some reports say that she was getting to the point where she was smoking pot so often and started using cocaine. It got to the point where it was becoming more of a habit and some of her tweets started to become concerning as well. She wrote in one tweet, who else had some weird visions in their dreams last night?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
We don't know exactly what she was referring to, but knowing what we know now, this could be a little bit concerning. I'm someone that also has some pretty wild dreams, and sometimes they can be completely out of the blue and really confuse me and And I'm like, how did my brain even come up with that? And I'm not a drug user. But for knowing what we know now, this is a little bit concerning.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Then she tweeted, my roommate forgot to pay the gas bill and they won't come and turn it on until Monday. And now there's a snowstorm on the way. Well, thank God I'll be drunk all day. Again, knowing what we know now, this can be a concerning tweet given that she's tweeting about being drunk and tweeting about having issues with her roommate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But just to play devil's advocate here and look on both sides, this might just seem like a concerning tweet knowing what we know, but it also might have just been normal frustration and normal teen bragging about drinking. Again, I know a lot of people who started in college and all they ever want to talk about is drinking and doing drugs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
They want everybody to know that they're going to get drunk and that they're going to be high or do whatever because they think that others will think that they're cool. And I also just wanted to go ahead and say that, yeah, I would be pretty upset if my roommate forgot to pay the gas bill and I had to sit in a freezing cold apartment with a snowstorm coming.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
We talk about what happened and what may have led up to it happening based on the facts and not wild theories or social media posts taken out of context. We respect the victim. We don't make clickbait headlines that disrespect the victim or her life or how she died. We don't make the videos or the titles about the person who committed the crime like so many news outlets do.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Her being frustrated about this is very normal for roommates and it doesn't mean that they had any bad blood between them. Again, I am just trying to be fair in this case and not sensationalize anything because I don't want to point to one specific thing that said there. There was a red flag. That was her problem. planning something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
I just want to make sure that I'm being fair and neutral with everything that we talk about. However, despite wanting to be fair, there is one tweet that she made that I think is very, very concerning. On Twitter, she wrote, I know death is coming, but I still can't wrap my head around it. That was tweeted on January 10th.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
So again, using all of these tweets as a whole, I can see how they're very concerning. They can definitely point to her using drugs at the time, her being in an altered mental state, it can point to a lot of different things. Then on January 20th, Alexa posted to Facebook, quote, I stopped venting and started praying because I don't need sympathy, I need strength.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Again, we don't really know what she's referring to. We don't know if it's even related to this case or related to something completely different that was going on in her life. But again, sounding like a broken record here, I know, but all of these different things put together can create a picture of what may have been going on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
So everything in the relationship between these two seemingly best friends all changed just after sunrise on January 24th, 2019. At around 7 a.m. that morning, neighbors of Alexa and Louisa's heard screaming coming through the walls. Neighbors listened as they heard the arguing and the screaming intensify until they heard someone mention a knife.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
At this point, these neighbors called 911 to report a domestic dispute. By 7.45 a.m., police arrived to Alexa and Luis's apartment at 1208 Clement Street, Apartment G for what they were expecting to be a domestic dispute. They knocked on the door of this apartment and Louisa opened the door and she was covered in blood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
She immediately turned around, put her arms behind her back and said, arrest me. When the officers asked her why and told her to tell them what was going on, she said, I killed her. And then she identified herself and told them that she was Alexa's roommate. When police looked inside, they saw an absolutely horrific scene. The apartment, of course, was also covered in blood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
And right away, they saw Alexa laying dead on the floor after suffering numerous stab wounds and she was found to have a kitchen knife still sticking out of her mouth. After rescue workers arrived, they attempted to resuscitate Alexa, but their attempts were unsuccessful. She was unfortunately pronounced dead at the scene.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
After examining her body further, it was found out that Alexa had been stabbed around 30 to 40 times. Alexa's sudden death absolutely sent a shockwave through her school. Brian Hemphill, the Radford University president, said, quote, This is a tragic moment for our campus community and the Radford community. During this difficult time, we ask that you provide support to your fellow Highlanders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
The days and months to come will also be difficult as we extend our deepest sympathies as well as our thoughts and prayers to the family and loved ones of our student. Staff members at the school and the surrounding businesses said that you could just feel the shock and grief that the students at the school were feeling. No one went out the weekend after this happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Her church held a vigil for her and everybody wore blue because it was her favorite color. Numerous family members, friends, classmates, and fellow churchgoers showed up to support Alexa and to grieve her loss. Alexa's mom even spoke at the vigil and asked that they keep Lisa Cutting and her family in their prayers.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
We only talk about the person as much as we need to. So with all of that being said, let's get into today's case. Today, we are going to be discussing the tragic murder of Alexa Cannon. Alexa Cannon was born July 17, 1998 and grew up in Roanoke, Virginia. She attended Patrick Henry High School in 2016 and was described as being a popular girl and very loved by her peers.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
saying that they need them too at this time, which to me just shows so much strength and compassion and is so brave of them. They held their service in the church and then her parents gathered afterwards to meet everyone, shake hands, and to talk to everybody whose lives were touched by Alexa. Of course, Louisa was immediately arrested for murdering Alexa. She literally admitted to it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
But now police had the duty of trying to figure out what happened. what could have caused this girl to just suddenly decide to murder her best friend? When police searched Louisa and Alexa's they found several items including pills, grinders, and several smoking devices in Louisa's room. They also found a brown chalk-like substance in the kitchen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
Then going back to when they found Alexa's body, they also found her cell phone underneath her left hand. Now, I saw that in the warrants obtained for Alexa and Louisa's cell phone, Alexa had been in contact with others regarding problems that they were having with Louisa in the days leading up to her death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Murder of Alexa Cannon: Killed by her Best Friend
However, I haven't seen stated anywhere who she spoke to, what she complained about, or literally anything else that expands on this. Warrants also showed that Alexa did call 911 on the morning that she was killed. The warrant states that they received a 911 call where they heard someone yelling,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you all today is yet another awful, tragic case that will make you so very sad and frustrated. When you hear the details of what this poor little girl went through, you will be just as angry as I am right now and when I found out about this case. Trust me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So, on the surveillance video, we see them carrying Christina out to the car at 11.16am on August 5th, 2019, and we see that they do not start the car after putting her in. Then we see for the next half hour as Rita and Larry argue on the lawn and then move to the porch to continue arguing until 11 43 a.m. They stay inside for about an hour before Rita comes back out at 12 29 p.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She then gets into the driver's seat of the car, sits there for a minute, then gets back out. She opens the rear door to check on Christina and then shuts the door again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
By 12.30 p.m., she goes back inside.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She stays inside until 1.45 p.m. when her and Larry come back out and start arguing again on the porch. At this point, Christina has been in the car for over two hours. Then they are seen just meandering about until they hug and embrace each other at the doorway of the home before going inside at 2.03pm. It's at this point that Larry and Christina had sex.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
The most common symptoms of cerebral palsy, which is abbreviated to CP, most affect the person's motor development and speech. So the most common type of CP is spastic, which means that the person will have super rigid and stiff muscles and joints. Some have high tone or spasticity all throughout their bodies, while others may have very low tone and are very floppy and weak.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
About an hour later at 3 0 1 PM, they came back outside to the porch to smoke cigarettes and continue talking. By that point, Rita goes to the car to get some cigarettes, but realize that she has locked herself out of the car. By that point, Christina has been in the car for three hours and 47 minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Then Rita and Larry walk around the car multiple times, trying to yank the door handles open to see if the windows are cracked or anything. They spend 10 minutes doing this. Then they wander around in the front yard for a minute before heading in the backyard to go to their shed and get some tools and try to get the door open.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They used a coat hanger to see if they could get the door unlocked, but they were unsuccessful. After being unable to open the car, they sit on the porch for a while and swing together on the porch swing. They do that for another 15-ish minutes until they go back inside at 3.32 p.m. At this point, Christina has been in that car for over four hours.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Then they walk through the house, go to the back, and hop in Larry's truck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They sit there for a few minutes before they finally leave at 3.52pm to drive the 20 minutes to Rita's house in Walterboro. They finally return back at 4.40pm with the spare key. But there is absolutely no urgency here. They sit in their car and talk for another four minutes before even trying to get into the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They didn't get it unlocked at first, so again, they start wandering around the yard and hug and stand there for several minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Then they try rocking the car to see if that does anything, but obviously it didn't. It took them until 4.58 p.m. to figure out how to unlock the car with the spare key. I am not kidding you. It took them that long to unlock the door with the key. So finally, after five hours and 42 minutes in that scorching hot car, they get the door unlocked.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They open the door and you can see that the window on the back seat on the driver's side is rolled up. So based on what we can see of the car, it looks like none of the windows in that car are open. That is when they discover that Christina is dead. You can see them panicking, acting frantically, not knowing what to do after they found her. Then they make that 911 call.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
There are some very mild forms of CP, which will result in things like difficulty with normal gait, such as a super stiff leg on one side. But everything else, including speech and cognition, can be normal. Sometimes it can affect one side of the person's entire body. so they can have a super stiff left leg and a very weak left arm, for example.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Obviously, after seeing the surveillance footage, investigators were shocked and dumbfounded. They clearly had no regard for that little girl in the car. They checked on her one time. They didn't bother to even open a window in that car, let alone turn on the AC. Once Christina's body was found, of course, she was sent off to the medical examiner for an autopsy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
The medical examiner ruled that her cause of death was the result of hyperthermia. Turns out that her body reached over 109.9 degrees, but that is the highest that the thermometer could read, so it's possible that her body temp was even higher than that. While she was in that car, she vomited on herself and then aspirated that vomit into her lungs as she was dying.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
And by the time her body was removed from the car, decomposition had already started. For those of you who don't know, a normal body temperature is about 98 degrees, give or take a degree. This is within safe limits. It is considered hypothermia, so being too cold at 95 degrees. Severe hyperthermia, when you're too hot, is when your body reaches above 104 degrees Fahrenheit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Now, think about the fact that Christina's body was 5 degrees above that. Think of your worst flu or fever that you've ever had in your life, how miserable that is, how you are sweating and uncomfortable and in pain. That is when your body reaches about 101 degrees or if you have a very, very severe fever, it can get as high as 103 degrees.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Only a few degrees can make a huge difference because it sounds like two degrees isn't that big of a deal in your body, but it is. Now imagine your body temperature being 7 degrees hotter than your worst fever that you've ever experienced in your entire life. That is excruciating. And the fact that decomposition had already started not more than an hour or two after her death...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
That shows how freaking hot it truly was. After this, investigators did a study on the car to test the conditions at the same time that Christina was left in the car and tested how hot the car probably got during that time. They determined that the car most likely reached a temperature of 135 degrees Fahrenheit. You probably don't need to be from Arizona to know that 135 degrees is deadly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I'm really trying to hit home for you just how bad this really was. Now, you might be asking, how can two adults be so nonchalant, so irresponsible, so blatantly careless when a 13 year old child is in that car? But it turned out that Rita and Larry were at the tail end of a three day meth bender.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They had been doing meth for three days straight and apparently Rita hadn't slept at all in those three days. Blood tests would later confirm that they did have meth in their systems that were consistent with regular meth abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So mostly based on that surveillance footage that showed them leaving Christina in the car for almost six hours, Larry and Rita were both arrested and charged with conspiracy, murder and causing severe bodily harm. The two pleaded not guilty and their joint trial for murder started on August 29th, 2023. The prosecution argued that Rita and Larry treated Christina like baggage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They argued that they didn't accidentally place her in that car by accident and then just leave her in there. They deliberately put her in that car, leaving her in there for hours, knowing that she couldn't open the door. She couldn't yell for help. She was dependent on them to help her. They argued that her constant need for care was inconvenient for Rita and Larry.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Some people with CP, though, you might not even know it. Meanwhile, a lot of people with CP have what's called spastic quadriplegia, and I think this is what people mostly think of when they think of CP. That means that the person won't be able to move their arms or legs very purposefully. They usually cannot walk, so they rely on a wheelchair.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They couldn't just send Christina off to a friend's house when they wanted to be alone and do whatever they wanted. So they put her somewhere where she wouldn't get in the way. And then they left her there to basically boil to death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
And while their daughter was dying an excruciating death, she was hugging and kissing and having sex with her boyfriend without a care in the world for her 13 year old daughter. Now, the first day of trial, the prosecution called two witnesses to the stand to talk about how Rita normally treated her daughter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
One woman was an 18-year-old aspiring nurse named Lindsay, who Rita had as her teacher in high school. According to Lindsay, Rita thought that Lindsay could gain some healthcare experience by helping her care for Christina. So, on a Friday, the week before Christina's death,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Lindsay agreed to watch Christina on her own, thinking it would just be for a few hours while Rita went on a date with Larry. However, Rita did not return back to care for Christina until two days later on Sunday evening. She said that there was no food in the house and it looked like Christina's bed had bedbugs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She had just left her daughter alone with an 18-year-old who had no experience caring for a child with disabilities for the entire weekend without even so much as checking in. When she finally got back, she explained to Lindsay that Larry had suffered from a bout of food poisoning, so she had to be there for him for those days.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Not like she had a daughter with a disability who needed her a lot more than a grown man with food poisoning did, but I digress.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
At least in my experience, these are the kids that usually don't have meaningful communication or speech. Usually they'll need help with pretty much everything, including feeding, transferring from bed to chair or couch or wherever, using the bathroom. And a lot of times they will have some sort of communication device that helps them portray what they want or need to their caregiver.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
The next witness was a woman named Brittany, who had been a tenant of Rita's. This woman had been paying rent to live in a room in Rita's house, and while living there, there were several times that Brittany would watch Christina when Rita asked her to. But there was one time where Rita asked Brittany to watch Christina, but Brittany told her that she had to work that day, so she couldn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
But Rita was persistent. She told Brittany that she could just take Christina to work with her and leave her in the car with the windows rolled down because apparently she did that all the time. So these two witness accounts tell me a few things. First, that Rita knew good and well that at the very least, if you're going to leave someone in the car, the windows need to be rolled down.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Not that that makes it okay, but it obviously means that she knew that the windows needed to be rolled down because she knew that it could get too hot in that car if not. But second and most significant, this tells me that Rita saw her daughter as an inconvenience who she didn't want to deal with anymore.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
that was what the prosecution was arguing again clearly the house seemed to not be in the best conditions she didn't really have food she apparently had bed bugs on christina's bed and was just trying to pass her off with whoever she could so that she could go out and do whatever she wanted the prosecution also brought forward the medical examiner who testified about how horrific christina's death was
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She had blisters all over her body from the heat. She aspirated her own vomit. She started decomposing and had a ridiculously high body temperature. But the defense for Rita said that this case is not murder. It is a horrible accident that does have consequences. It is a nightmare, but it was an accident, not murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Meanwhile, Larry's defense said that his biggest mistake was getting back together with Rita. That Christina was not his child, so he did not have a legal obligation to care for her. They brought up how there have been other deaths of children who were forgotten in the car and overheated in the same way that Christina did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
And not all of those parents are charged with murder because they are genuine accidents from overtired parents. But I do want to say that a lot of these other accounts are for infants.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So people that just had babies that are still up all night with their children that haven't gotten a lick of sleep in months because their child is keeping them up all night and all of their energy is going towards caring for that child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Again, not an excuse for anybody that leaves their baby in the car, but there are people that genuinely leave their babies in the car by accident and it's because they're overwhelmed, overtired, and genuinely just did not think to get the baby out of the car. This is not the same situation here. This is a 13 year old. She had been caring for this little girl for 13 years.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She's at the point where she's probably sleeping through the night, if not once or twice to get up to care for her. But otherwise Rita probably got plenty of sleep if she wasn't doing meth all the time. Then Rita's daughter Elizabeth testified at the trial. She actually advocated for her mother big time. She said that Rita was devoted to Christina.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Anytime insurance denied an assistive device for Christina, which by the time happens so freaking often, it's absolutely infuriating, but that is a story for a different time. When that would happen, Rita would take up extra jobs like cleaning houses and taking on extra tutoring jobs just to pay for it. She said that Rita loved Christina and she would never do anything to harm her on purpose.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Basically, someone with quadriplegic CP will need round-the-clock care. I'm explaining all of this first so you understand the case a little bit better, but also because a lot of people simply don't know a lot about cerebral palsy. It's not always the people in the wheelchair or with cognitive disabilities.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I have one child that I see in my healthcare job who is totally normal and everything with their cognition, speech, everything. They just have one spastic leg that makes the walking a little bit funky and makes them trip all of the time. But otherwise, this child is a totally typically developing child with speech and everything else.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Let's get into this truly awful case. Today, we're going to be discussing the death of Christina Pangalangan. Christina Pangalangan was born on March 28th, 2006 in Colleton County, South Carolina to Rita Frazier and Raphael Pangalangan, and she had two sisters, Ashley and Elizabeth.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They also brought forward a witness who could testify about the blood tests that Rita and Larry took. They said that technically the amount of meth that they had in their systems could be residual from days prior. It didn't necessarily mean that they had been on meth that very day, but again, they did show levels that are consistent with meth abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So even if they had taken it a few days prior, they probably still could have felt the effects of it days later. That could have affected their sleep, that could have affected how they were thinking that day, that they just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
weren't all there because they were still on meth or whatever or sleep deprived whatever it was they basically tried to argue that they didn't actually take math that day that it was from previous days but to me that doesn't really matter they were still doing math they still exposed christina to math because there were witnesses who said that they did math in the house they did meth around her
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So they clearly were not shy about doing drugs right in front of their daughter and exposing her to meth in that home. Other than that, I didn't see much else that the defense argued or that they could argue. It was basically just that this was an accident and not a purposeful murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I also do want to note that even though Elizabeth advocated for her mom, other siblings and family members sat in the courtroom behind the prosecution to show support for Christina, not Rita. So after three days of evidence and testimony, the jury was sent off for deliberations. And after deliberating for just over two hours, they came back with their verdicts.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They found that Rita and Larry were not guilty of criminal conspiracy, but they found that they were both guilty on the charges of murder and causing great bodily harm. As their verdicts were being read out, Rita was absolutely shocked. She gasped and yelled out, falling over and started sobbing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
As for Christina though, she had spastic quadriplegic CP as well as a seizure disorder. This means that Christina had more severe cognitive and speech difficulties, which made it impossible to communicate via spoken language. She needed to use a wheelchair and did not have a wide range of purposeful movement. And what I mean by purposeful movement is they might...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
At their sentencing hearings, Rita admitted that she was negligent, but she held on to the fact that she did not do this on purpose. In the end, Rita was sentenced to 37 years for murder and another 20 years for the charges of great bodily harm to be served concurrently. Then Larry was sentenced to 32 years for murder, and he was also given a 20-year sentence for great bodily harm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
flail around they might have like writhing movements but they're not going to like reach for a cup if they're thirsty basically they have movement they're not just still all of the time but it's not very purposeful again going to reach for a cup when you're thirsty either way christina was completely dependent she did need a lot of care but by all accounts she was a happy child christina was known to be a loving wonderful soul
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
After the death of this beautiful little girl, the public was understandably outraged. People who knew the family had expressed concern for Christina's safety to the Department of Social Services, who did nothing to provide help or resources to the family. Christina's father, Rafael, said that he was devastated by his daughter's death and he hoped that Rita and Larry would suffer in prison.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
He said that he tried to get DSS to investigate Rita's treatment of Christina, but they never did anything to help. Now, I don't know Rafael personally. I don't know the situation. And I'm sure he is devastated about the death of his daughter. But I do want to say that it doesn't seem like he did much to help care for Christina. It didn't seem like he was really involved in her life at all. So...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I don't know how true it is that he was really trying to get help, trying to get someone to investigate Christina and Rita and how she was treating her, because in my opinion, I think if he cared that much, that he would have actually tried to do something, went in the state, looked for himself. I don't know if he did that. I personally don't think he did, just based on what I've seen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
He totally could have. I totally could be off here, but... It does seem that Rafael didn't really do much to help Christina either. I saw that he had warrants out for his arrest years and years ago for not paying child support, so it didn't seem like he was all that interested in helping care for Christina either, but that's beside the point. He's not the one who killed her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I don't want to sit here and talk smack about him when I don't know him, but I I did just wanna say that. It doesn't seem like either parent really had interest in caring for Christina, which is just awful. But either way, he has filed a lawsuit against DSS for negligence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
He said that he hopes this lawsuit will expose their negligence and incompetence and hopefully prevent similar tragedies from happening to other children. So at the end of this, I do think that Rita and Larry are right where they belong.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I'm happy that they were charged and convicted of murder because to me, I don't know if they put her in that car to kill her or if they just put her in that car without caring what happened to her. But whichever situation you think happened, both are equally as bad if you ask me. They both clearly saw this little girl as nothing but an inconvenience and they did not care what happened to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They clearly just wanted to live their lives carefree and without regard for Christina. And I think that was made very clear by that surveillance video. I am so outraged at these so-called parents that let this happen. I'm disgusted with what Christina went through when she was burning to death inside of that car. This is a death that I wouldn't wish on my absolute worst enemy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She was unique and she was stubborn. She loved Dora the Explorer and Spongebob Squarepants. She loved swimming and always got so excited when she got to watch her cartoons. She was 13 years old and a middle school student at Culleton Middle School at the time of her death. And once again, I know this intro into the case and into Christina and into her diagnosis is very long.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Nobody deserves something so horrific except maybe the parents that did this to her. Because clearly, they still think that their lives are much more important than taking responsibility for the brutal, awful thing that they put their baby through. But that is where this case sits today.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Obviously, I could go on and on about how awful this all is and how heartbroken and angry I am for this little girl. She didn't deserve any of this and I could just go on about how disgusted I am with her parents and how they treated her. But you all know and understand and I'm sure you feel the exact same way. So that is where I am going to end today's video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Thank you all so much for taking the time to listen to Christina's story and for learning a little bit more about cerebral palsy. A lot of you might know that I do work in healthcare. I don't necessarily say exactly what my job is because...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
I don't put too much personal information about myself out there for my own safety, but I do work with children with disabilities every day for my job in healthcare. I work with children of all ages, of all different disabilities, and cerebral palsy is definitely one of the most common that I see and treat, and it's such a misunderstood diagnosis.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Pretty much every disability is not very well understood by the public, but cerebral palsy especially. So I just wanted to share what I know about it, what I see, and just, again, how capable people with cerebral palsy are in all disabilities, but especially, for this case, cerebral palsy. But either way, I want to know what your thoughts are about this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Do you think that Rita and Larry got the right sentence? Do you think that this was an intentional murder or more so neglect that led to death? Let me know your thoughts in the comments below. If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Make sure you turn that notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you follow my Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok account, which are all going to be linked down below. And if you have any case suggestions, please make sure to fill out the Google form, which is also listed down below. With that, I hope you guys have an amazing week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope to see you next time. Bye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
But I just want to make a remark on how underestimated people with disabilities are. A lot of people think that because they can't communicate verbally that they don't want to communicate or that they're not smart or that they don't have feelings. But they are so much more capable than anyone gives them credit for.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
It actually makes me very emotional talking about this because I work with children with disabilities in my healthcare job and you would be so surprised and impressed at what they can do. I know one of my kids that I treat has the same level of disability as Christina and I know their favorite songs, their favorite music, their favorite toys.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They communicate with me in a different way than other children, but they still will tell me when they're mad at me, excited to see me, happy or tired. I can tell them what I want them to do when I see them in a session and they will do it within their limitations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So just as a little message to those of you out there who do or do not know somebody with a disability or if you don't currently and you happen to meet someone with a disability in the future, don't underestimate them. They are so much more capable than you know. They understand a lot more than you know and they feel a lot more than you know now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Christina's mother, Rita, worked as a teacher at the Thunderbolt Career and Technology Center in Culleton County, and during her career as a teacher, she was recognized twice as the county's teacher of the year. At some point, Rita's husband and Christina's father, Rafael, left the family and moved to another state.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
But despite that, Elizabeth, Christina's sister, said that Rita was devoted to continuing to care for Christina. After Rafael left, Rita took on a second job to help pay for her expenses. She helped Christina compete in a Special Olympics competition and took her to Disney. She was even saving up money to buy a wheelchair accessible van to make transport that much easier.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Christina was born with cerebral palsy, which is a congenital disorder that is caused by damage to the brain that can happen before, during, or after birth. In some cases, the child has abnormal brain development in utero. Sometimes it's from a lack of oxygen to the brain during labor and delivery. Those are the two most common causes that I personally have seen in my healthcare job.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
But at some point, it seemed that all of this changed. At the time of the incident, 53-year-old Rita had been in a relationship with 45-year-old Larry King. I don't know exactly how long their relationship was, but either Larry had a very bad influence on Rita or they both got involved in drugs together. I will discuss this more in detail later in the video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So this case starts on August 5th, 2019. It was a hot day reaching temperatures between 88 and 91 degrees Fahrenheit. At 1116 a.m. on that day, Larry carried Christina out to the car that was parked in a shaded area in the front lawn of Larry's home just off of Lowe County Highway. And for the next five hours and 42 minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
she sat in that car, alone, unable to move or open the door to get out or even use her voice to call for help. During that time, according to Larry, him and Rita had gotten into an argument. Then they went inside and had sex, staying inside for almost an hour. After four hours in the car, Larry and Rita went back outside to get some cigarettes from the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
It was at that point that they realized that they were locked out of the car and weren't able to get in. They spent almost 45 minutes trying to figure out how to get into that car, trying to pry the door open and looking around for the keys. They also went to their shed and grabbed some tools to try and break into their car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
They used a coat hanger to try and jimmy it open, but had no luck with that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
so they sat around for a bit waiting to see if they could think of anything until eventually they decided to get into larry's truck headed over to rita's house about a 20 minute drive each way and get a spare key from there to open the car they then returned to the car about an hour after that and by 5 p.m that day again five hours and 42 minutes after she was put in that car
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
they finally were able to get Christina out of that car. But by the time they got to her, she had died. When they picked her up, her skin was hot and blistered and her diaper had been very soiled. She had been left in that car to die, unable to breathe, suffering from extreme temperatures, which caused her to die.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So, after finding her body, Larry called 911 to report that they had put their daughter in the car while they were getting ready to leave. Then they accidentally locked her in the car because they couldn't find the keys. He admitted that she must have been in there for about one or two hours before they were able to get the spare key and get her out of that car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
It can also be caused by infections that cause swelling and inflammation around the brain. either sustained as an infant, or even if the mother gets that kind of infection while pregnant, or it can be caused by a traumatic brain injury sustained as an infant from something like a car accident or physical abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
First responders arrived shortly after the call was made. When they arrived, Christina's body was lying in the grass and Larry was standing outside on the phone with 911 while Rita was inside the house. At that point, attempts were made to save Christina's life, but unfortunately, they were too late. 13-year-old Christina was pronounced dead at the scene.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Now, from the day that police arrived to the scene to question Larry and Rita and the weeks after, their stories would change multiple times. As we heard on that 911 call, Larry says multiple times that the AC was on. He was confident about that. Now, when police got there, the car was turned on and the AC was blowing, but the car was still hot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
So, it's not necessarily a genetic or hereditary condition like a lot of people tend to believe. Obviously, your genes can contribute to it if you already have some genetic mutation that causes abnormal brain development, but it's not a gene that causes CP itself. More so, it can be a gene that causes some other brain development issue that can lead to the child having CP.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
To investigators, that told them that they had just turned that car on right before police arrived. Why? Probably because they knew that the car had been off and he wanted to make it seem like it was left on so that they wouldn't be suspected of killing Christina by leaving her in a hot car on purpose.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Then they tried saying that there had been issues with the AC because obviously they probably realized that the police realized that the car was still hot even with the AC blowing when they first arrived. So they just said that there had been issues with the AC. Then they tried saying that there must have been an issue with the air conditioner.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
That must be why the car was still hot when police arrived. But no, when they turned the car on and left the AC on for the proper amount of time, the car cooled down as expected. There were absolutely no issues with that air conditioner. Then as I just stated, Rita was inside when help originally arrived. Once they got Rita to come out, police spoke with her and got her side of the story.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
She told them that she put Christina in the car, then went inside really quick to grab some cigarettes, but when she came back out, she realized that she had locked herself out of the car with Christina inside. This was a total accident. So right off the bat, they're getting two different stories.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
Larry is over here saying that they knew that they put Christina in the car and left her there, but he swears the AC was on. Whereas Rita was saying that she didn't mean to leave Christina in the car. She just put her in there, went inside to grab her cigarettes before they planned on leaving, only to find that the car was locked.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
But it turns out that their statements actually didn't matter much, if at all, because Larry actually had home surveillance cameras that picked up their every movement that day. And it showed us exactly what we needed to know about that day. So earlier I gave you a bit of a snippet into what was going on while Christina was in that car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
They Left their Disabled Daughter in a Hot Car for 6 HOURS to MURDER her: Cristina Pangalangan
That they placed her in the car, almost six hours passed, and when she was taken out, she was already dead. But when you find out exactly what happened and what they were doing while she was baking in that hot car, oh, it just gets so much worse. Let me take you through a step-by-step narration of what happened on that morning.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Hey guys, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. For today's video, I am going to be doing a solved case that was suggested to me a few weeks ago. Now, when this case was first suggested to me, I didn't actually realize just how ridiculous this situation was until I got pretty deep into my research. I physically could not believe
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
And we take her body out of the bushes and drag it over to her back fence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
I try to get her over, and I can't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Now, in high school, Sarah was really close friends with two guys named Preston Taylor and Liam McAsney. In fact, they were all such good friends that if you saw one of them walking down the hallway, you saw the other two. They ate lunch together. They would put their stuff in each other's lockers and knew each other's locker combinations and knew each other's class schedules.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Liam literally did not have any sort of remorse for what he did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
and watched her struggle and fight for her life as he strangled her, drove with her in her car, then how he struggled to throw her into the river and then was finally able to with some help. He literally did not care that he just took the life of his best friend that he had known since he was a kid. So, obviously, after seeing this videotape, police immediately arrested Liam and Preston.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
When they took the two in, Preston told police pretty much everything and said the same thing that Anthony had already told them. I will mention that at this point, Neither of these guys knew that police had already seen a video confession, so Preston was admitting to what they did without knowing that they already knew.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Preston told police again that they had planned to rob Sarah after she had told them that she had $50,000 to $100,000, but of course, after finding out that it was stashed away in a safe deposit box, they had to come up with a different plan. He said that it was their plan to park her car on the side of the bridge and just make it look like she jumped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Liam even took two trial runs over the bridge in his car and then the two bought walkie-talkies from Walmart to communicate with each other the entire time that this thing went down. However, the walkie-talkies that they had originally bought didn't have enough range, so they had to go back to Walmart and get two new ones.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
When Preston got a call from Liam on December 2nd saying that he was with Sarah, he knew that the plan was about to be executed. After killing Sarah, Liam casually went to work, but he asked Preston to move her body from the downstairs bathroom where he had left her. Liam told him to climb the fence in the backyard getting into Sarah's back door, because the neighbor had a surveillance video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Liam also apparently lost his phone as he was killing his friend, so he politely asked Preston to go ahead and look for his phone. Preston said that he did everything Liam asked of him and after Liam got off of work, they went to Sarah's house and then left with the backpack full of cash. Then, like I mentioned before,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Liam went to go throw the body off of the bridge, but Preston was following close behind to help Liam out when Liam realized that he was not strong enough to throw her over himself. They then went back to Sarah's house to get everything together to bury the money at Sandy Hook. Now, the trial for Sarah's murder started in early 2019.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Preston Taylor pleaded guilty to robbery, conspiracy to commit robbery, disturbing or desecrating human remains, tampering with physical evidence, and two counts of hindering apprehension. He also agreed to testify against Liam in trial. Liam pleaded not guilty and did not testify at all. In the trial, Preston basically told the jury what he had told police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Preston and Sarah even went to their senior prom together and Liam and Preston had been roommates for some time. Now, there was no romantic relationship between any of them. Preston and her just went to prom as friends and as far as I have seen, their wasn't any sort of jealousy going around or unreciprocated feelings or anything like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He said that Liam had had this plan for months and that he, Preston, initially didn't want anything to do with the plan but then eventually gave in. He also showed a lot more remorse for what he had done than Liam and said that he regrets his involvement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Anthony Curry also testified against Liam again, telling the jury what he told police about how Liam had this entire plan six months before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
saying that Preston is a liar and that he's only saying what he's saying to save himself. In regards to the video, he said that Liam only said what he said because he thought that he was auditioning for a movie or throwing out ideas for a movie since Anthony was indeed a filmmaker. But the video was not the only thing that prosecutors had against Liam.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
They presented a walkie-talkie that detectives recovered when Preston was arrested and a matching one that Anthony had said Liam left behind in his car the night that the conversation was recorded. A manager from Walmart was also called in to testify that only two sets of walkie-talkies matching the ones that detectives found
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
were purchased in the Neptune store between October and November of 2016, which matches exactly what Preston had told them. Phone records also show a series of phone calls placed from Sarah's landline in Sarah's house Liam's cell phone around the time that he killed Sarah. Prosecutors basically saying that this was Liam trying to find his phone after the entire thing went down at her house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Phone records also show that Preston called Liam's phone from his own cell phone five times that day, which prosecutors said was Preston trying to find Liam's lost phone in the house. when he was there to move Sarah's body.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Phone records also showed several text messages between Anthony and Liam indicating that the two were planning to meet up on Thanksgiving Day in 2016, which corroborated Anthony's testimony that he was at Liam's house Thanksgiving Day in 2016 when Liam had told him about his entire plan. Now, they were also able to get a hold of the surveillance video from the house across the street from Sarah's.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Now, like I mentioned earlier, Sarah's mother unfortunately died of cancer four years before Sarah died. Well, her mother had actually left behind a shoebox filled with about $25,000 for Sarah, which had actually been stashed in their second home in Avon-by-the-Sea in New Jersey. But her father Michael did not actually know about this money that her mother had left behind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
The same surveillance camera that Liam had specifically told Preston to avoid that showed Liam leaving the house carrying out a bag that prosecutors said was filled with the stolen cash. That same surveillance camera also captured someone in the backyard of Sarah's house shortly after she is thought to be killed, which is thought to have been Preston moving her body.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Later that night, the same camera showed a car's headlights going on and then leaving Sarah's house. Surveillance video from Brennan's steakhouse that day showed Liam arriving to work through the back door one minute late for his shift,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
looking disheveled wiping his brow with his apron a co-worker testified that he was always on time to work never even being a minute late and he always looked really nice and ready to go so prosecutors argued that liam had to rush to work that day after he had killed sarah but the biggest piece of evidence was the cash that caused this entire situation to happen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Preston led detectives to the money that they had buried at Sandy Hook. Detectives said that it contained $9,390 in old rusty bills printed in the 1980s. They were also able to open the safe using the key that they found on Liam's key chain, while the key to Sarah's safe deposit box was found hidden in a vent in the house where Preston and Liam lived.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Now, like I said earlier, Liam had lost his phone at Sarah's house that day and detectives were able to find it in her yard. The thing that I find so disturbing addition to everything else that is completely disturbing about this entire thing is that when they found Liam's phone, they found that the stopwatch on his phone was activated at 4 15 p.m. on December 2nd.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He literally timed himself as he was strangling Sarah to see how long it would take for And that's how he knew that it took him a half hour to kill her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Just think about how absolutely psychotic you have to be to be that collected and calm while you're executing this plan to kill your friend that you're even in a state of mind where you just decide to go ahead and time yourself as you're strangling someone. It's just unreal to me. This entire time, Liam did not say a single thing in court.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
As Michael Stern was testifying, he basically laid out exactly what Liam had done to his family. In court, he said, quote, I was devastated and numb from the shock every day I learned from the detectives that Sarah was murdered. I've had horrific dreams and nightmares. The horrid act of what happened to her body haunts me every day. I will never be able to hug Sarah again."
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
This entire time, though, Liam would not even look up at the face of the man whose life he ruined, all because he wanted a little bit of money. Now, I do want to mention that this trial was actually almost thrown out because one of the jurors posted on Facebook, sitting in the jury LMAO, and of course, that is completely inappropriate to say on Facebook, and the court did throw the juror out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
But Liam's defense took this as an opportunity to ask for a new trial, which thankfully he was denied. In February, Liam was found guilty of seven charges of murder, felony murder, conspiracy to commit robbery, robbery, hindering the apprehension of himself, tampering with evidence and disturbing or desecrating human remains.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole plus 10 years. Right away, Liam's attorney tried to fight these charges, but he was denied. Liam still says that he's innocent, and had nothing to do with Sarah's murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Preston Taylor took a plea deal of dropping any murder charges in return for testifying against Liam, but he did plead guilty of first-degree robbery, second-degree conspiracy to commit robbery, and second-degree disturbing or desecrating human remains. Prosecutors sought charges of 10 to 20 years in prison. His trial was in July of 2019 and there were some issues with his trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
When Sarah initially got this money, she had used it to take a few trips to Florida and to Canada and had paid for her dog to get surgery and then bought a new TV for her grandmother. However, her aunt convinced her to put $5,200 into her checking account and then stash the rest of the cash in a safe deposit box in Bradley Beach.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He had basically lied about being sexually abused by his father to gain sympathy for what he did. He almost discredited himself as being a liar when he was the key witness who put Liam away so easily. Of course, Liam's lawyer tried to use this as a way to make a claim that Preston cannot be trusted. But either way, Preston Taylor was sentenced to 18 years behind bars.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
But of course, Preston's attorney was not happy with this charge either and also tried to appeal. claiming that the judge applied aggravating factors saying that there was a high likelihood of Preston offending again. Preston's lawyer said that this was unfair, especially since he was the one who testified against Liam.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
However, Preston had such a huge role in Sarah's murder that the judge basically said that there's no way that he couldn't conclude that Preston would reoffend again. So, that's pretty much all of the information that I have on this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
I know that it was really difficult to listen to because no one wants to believe that their friend, especially one that they've known since childhood, would be willing to do something so heinous just because they came into a large sum of money. These are guys who took advantage of a girl who just wanted to get away from it all and wanted to start a new career, but instead,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
They just selfishly cut her life short for a little bit of money. One of the quotes that I kept seeing in my research was Liam basically talking about how he could live comfortably for a few years, buy a house, and throw house parties with how much money he was going to have.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
So not only did he have the totally wrong idea of how much money he was about to get, but he literally just wanted all of that money so he could throw parties. He thought that being able to have a house and throw parties was more important than his best friend's life. And that is just something that I cannot wrap my head around.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
I am thankful at least that he had people around him who were willing to turn their friend in. Anthony specifically. I mean, he didn't have to turn his friend in. He didn't have to sacrifice this friendship. He didn't have anything to gain whatsoever out of turning in Liam. He didn't even want any sort of praise for doing so. He literally just did it because it's right.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
And he had even said in interviews, like, I don't want praise for this. I don't want anything in return. I don't want money. I just did it because someone lost their life. and I knew that I could help. That is someone that I have a ton of respect for.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
As for Preston, he took part in killing and dumping his best friend, a girl that he brought to prom, just so he could get away with something like $3,000, I think the agreement was. It might have been a little bit more than that, but it was not a lot of money. It is just insane to me what money led these men to do. It was good that he came out to police and told them what he did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Of course, Sarah had told her two closest friends in the whole world about this money that she had gotten. At first, after she told them, they seemed like very supportive friends. Sarah had always had this dream of moving to Canada and pursuing an art career there. And she actually did have plans set in to go through with it. Her family knew about her plans and so did all of her friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Without him, admittedly, it would have been a lot harder to convict Liam and he was an important key witness and it was a good thing that he came out and was willing to speak against his friend. But then he turned around and had to lie about why he was involved in the first place just to gain some sympathy from the jurors or
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
whoever he wanted to gain sympathy from, maybe for a lighter sentence, but he could have caused the entire trial to have to be thrown out because he could have been considered a liar and not a trustful witness. I did see again that Liam's lawyer did try to get this used to say that Preston was not credible, but I don't think anything came of it and hopefully nothing does.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
At the end of the day, we have two selfish young men who decided that the friend that they grew up with and spent a ton of their time with wasn't worth more than a small payout. One of which of these men won't even take responsibility for what he did, which just irks me so much more that he won't even man up and own up to what he did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
I just hope that both of these men are sitting in jail thinking about what they did and the fact that they did all of this to their best friend. and came out with exactly zero dollars to both of their names. I just hope that it eats them alive and not the guilt eats at them every single day. As for Sarah's father, Michael, I can't even imagine what he has had to go through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He lost his wife and then he lost his daughter and his mother is 96 years old and it just seems like he's losing everyone and it's Absolutely heartbreaking and it's not something that he should have ever had to go through. No parent should outlive their child. And especially over money that he didn't even know about.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
I can't even imagine what was running through his head when he found out about all this money that Sarah had that... her friends just decided was more important than her life. My heart goes out to Michael and I hope that he is able to find some way to stay strong through all of this and continue living his life even though the people that he loves the most have been taken from him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
At the time though, it was put on hold because of her grandmother who was 96 years old at the time and there was just sort of a lot going on with her family. But soon, Preston and Liam decided that they wanted to get their hands on this money. They had hashed this whole plan together that they were going to rob Sarah's house and take all of her money.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
They had gone over to her house one night with a pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade and tried to get her drunk enough so that they could just take her money, but it was at this point that she told them that most of the money was actually in that safe deposit box, so there was no way that they could have gotten their hands on the money at that time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
what these awful and disgusting people did to this beautiful young woman for absolutely no reason at all. So, with that being said, let's just get right into today's case. Today, we are going to be discussing the case of Sarah Stern. Sarah Stern was only 19 years old when she was killed on December 2, 2016.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
I guess that the friends had just thought that it was somewhere in her house and that they would be able to just take it without her knowing. After this, they came up with their official plan of how they were going to get their hands on that money. Now, let's fast forward to early December in 2016. At the time, Michael, Sarah's father, was in Florida at Disney World.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
The two had been texting back and forth while he was there, him sending her photos of everything that he was doing and seeing and her responding with how beautiful it all was. However, after a while, Sarah had just stopped replying to all of his messages.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Of course, he was pretty worried, but he didn't really have any reason to panic until his mother, or Sarah's grandmother, called him on December 2nd saying that she hadn't seen Sarah in a while. and Sarah was not returning any of her phone calls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
This was very unlike Sarah to just not reply to either of them and for her just to not be home in a very long time, so he started frantically texting her, hoping to get a response. Here are the text messages that he sent to Sarah. Sarah, where are you? Sarah, are you up? Sarah, what's going on? Grandma's trying to get in touch with you. Why is your phone off? Call me when you get this message.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Call me as soon as you get this message." But even after sending all of these text messages, he got no response. He was completely worried at this point, but that worry grew to a complete panic when in the early morning hours of December 3rd, Sarah's car was found, but she wasn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Just after midnight, an Uber driver was actually driving down a bridge over Shark River between Neptune and Belmar, New Jersey. when he noticed the 1994 Oldsmobile 88 parked on the side of the road. This driver immediately thought that this car looked very out of place, so he immediately reported it to police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
When police arrived, they found no sign of a break-in, no sign of foul play anywhere on or around the car, and the keys of the car were still in the ignition. They looked around for the driver of this abandoned car, but couldn't find anyone. At this point, they had identified the car as belonging to Sarah's grandmother and found out that no one had heard from Sarah since the day before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
So, police thought that she must have just jumped off this bridge and ended her own life. It was the only plausible explanation. Police immediately started their search of the river. They used Coast Guard helicopters and rescue dive teams to search this river extensively. However, they weren't able to find a single thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
This river does have a very intense current that connects out to the Atlantic Ocean, so it wouldn't be hard for a body that ended up in that river to just be swept away. At this point, police decided to go ahead and speak to some of Sarah's closest friends to see what could have been going on in her life. And Liam basically confirmed that she did probably take her own life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He said, quote, I just know that she's been trying to get away, been telling me that she's moving to Canada. He also told police that she had just recently dropped out of community college. she had threatened to take her own life before and that she really didn't get along with her father, that her father was crazy and always stealing her money.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
She was from Neptune City, New Jersey, and she was the only child of her parents, Michael Stern, and her mother, whose name I didn't see mentioned, but had actually passed away from cancer just a few years before Sarah died. Sarah was described as being smart, artistic, loving, and kind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He said that Sarah had continuously spoken about trying to get away for just a few months. He said that Sarah had been talking continuously about just wanting to get away for a few months. They told police about how Sarah's mother had just passed away a few years prior and that she did have a history of attempts in the past.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
She basically had every reason to just want to end things, according to Liam. However, what Liam was telling police contradicted to what I had mentioned earlier. She had told her family members about wanting to move to Canada, but had told them that she was going to put this plan on hold for quite a while because of her grandmother. Her and her dad did not have this
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
crazy, strained relationship that Liam was describing, they were actually very close. She would always post on Instagram about the thoughtful gifts that her father would get her for her birthday. And the two of them were always texting back and forth when they weren't together. And one of the very last texts that she sent him the day before she went missing was, I love you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Now, police had actually found out that Liam and Sarah had been together the day that she went missing. So they returned to speak to Liam again. At this point, Liam recounted his side of what happened that day. Liam told detectives that he had called Sarah that afternoon to ask if she wanted to get something to eat. And then the two went in Sarah's car to the Taco Bell in Neptune.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He said that they later went to a neighbor's house across the street to drop off a bin of items that Sarah had been cleaning out of her house before then returning to her house. Liam then said that he left to go to work at Brennan's Steakhouse in Neptune City. After this, he says he has no idea what happened to Sarah. In the days and weeks after Sarah's disappearance, the searches continued.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
No one had any idea of where she could have gone. Preston and Liam joined in with the search efforts along with her family and other friends. as they combed the entire Jersey Shore searching for any sign of Sarah. Liam and Preston put up flyers they posted all over social media about their missing friend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
They seemed to do everything that they could to get her name and her story out there, but they found nothing. No one could figure out what happened to Sarah and investigators started to lose hope and the investigation started slowing down until people started coming forward with information that shocked everyone involved.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
In January of 2017, a friend of Liam and Preston's, Anthony Curry, came forward to police telling them that Liam McAstonie was the one responsible for taking Sarah's life. Now, I want to mention that this friend Anthony and Liam did have a very close friendship. The two met in high school and became very close, bonding over music, movies, and TV shows. Anthony basically lived at Liam's house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Her friends said that Sarah would always encourage them to be unapologetically yourself and recklessly optimistic. She absolutely loved drawing and painting and was really good at it too. These are some of her drawings that embody her skill for being an artist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Anthony is a filmmaker and Liam would always tell him his ideas for different films that he thought Anthony should make. Now, according to Anthony, the Thanksgiving before Sarah went missing, so only a few weeks before all of this happened, Liam had told Anthony about his plan to kill this girl and throw her over a bridge.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Now, Anthony thought that this was pretty weird, but Liam was always giving him these crazy ideas for different movies, so he didn't think much of it. So, at first, when Anthony found out about Sarah's car being left at the bridge, he didn't really make the connection and didn't think that Liam had anything to do with it. I mean, the two were really close friends and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He didn't think that Liam was capable of any of that, just like most people wouldn't think that their friends are capable of something like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
It was only until Liam started reaching out to Anthony on Snapchat, where he knew that his messages would disappear, asking him if police had spoken to him that he made the connection and realized that Liam had basically spelled out what he was going to do weeks before he actually went through with it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
So after this, police set Anthony up with a way to try and record Liam admitting to what he did. And let me tell you, this worked like a charm. Liam had literally admitted to everything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
He told Anthony that he knew about all of this money that she had, that Sarah basically told him that there was somewhere between $50,000 and $100,000 in that box, and that he had been planning for six months to try and find a way to steal the money. The night that Sarah went missing, he got together with Sarah and hung out just like he said.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
At some point, he convinced Sarah to stop at the bank and take that money out and there were witnesses confirming that they were at the bank. He basically got her to take the money out by saying that they should take all the money out and run off to Canada or California together to start their new lives. After taking all of this money out, they arrived back at Sarah's house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
It was at this point at around 4 30 p.m that Liam admitted that he strangled Sarah for a half hour in her home until she died. He then moved her body into some bushes in the backyard that afternoon. Later that night, him and Preston returned to her home to put her body into the car, drive to the bridge, and tossed Sarah into the shark river.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
One of Sarah's friends recounted that every single year they would count down to July 11th because she always loved getting the free slurpees at 7-11. Her teacher said she was always pulling these little pranks in class and had such potential as an artist. She had always just had this very upbeat personality and was always able to lift up her friends and those around her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
After this, they went back to Sarah's house and cracked open her safe with a screwdriver, but turns out there was a lot less money than he thought. Turns out there was only about $10,000 in that box, and even the money itself was not very useful. It was old, crusty money that was stuck together and not even useful. They made it out with only $7,000, which they buried at Sandy Hook in the safe.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Here is the video of the confession of Liam basically spelling out everything that happened that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED, No Body: The Case Of Sarah Stern
Yeah, you said that he was in Florida.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Es gab niemanden, der an der Arbeit war, also sprach sie zu Jessica und sagte, hey, du solltest nicht so spät hier alleine sein und hat empfohlen, dass vielleicht ihr Freund zu der Gasstation kommt und mit ihr hangt. Als sie das so sagte, ging ein anderer männlicher Kunde zu ihr und sagte, dass die Kunden sich auch auf sie kümmern. Aber das machte Jessica sehr ungeheuer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Als die Anwesenden ihre Körper ausprobierten, merkten sie schnell, was tatsächlich passiert ist. Neben ihrem Körper fanden sie ihre Sonnenbrille, ihre Earphones und ihr Telefon, welches in einem Armband war, alle schön auf der Seite der Straße.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Zu dem Zeitpunkt waren ihr Mann und ihre Kinder aus dem Dorf auf einer Campingreise, also ist nicht genau bekannt, wann das passiert ist oder was genau passiert ist. The time of 6 o'clock was just an estimate from investigators on her time of death, but it could have been before that or it could have been after. There were absolutely no witnesses who saw or heard anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Police started this investigation to the best of their abilities, but quickly the case went cold. Even throughout my time researching, I haven't seen exactly what happened to Rebecca. I don't know if she was out just... running and suddenly got shot in the head, that doesn't seem totally realistic because you'd think that people would have heard gunshots in this community.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
But there is evidence that will come out later that tells us that a lot more may have happened to Rebecca. But either way, for quite a while, police couldn't find any leads or clues to help them figure out who did this to Rebecca. Then on April 16th, 2016, a 16-year-old, who has not been publicly identified, was at a house party with some friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie hat getrunken und ein bisschen Marihuana getrunken, also hatte sie Pläne, eine Freundin zu Hause zu fahren. Aber ich glaube, jemand schlief in der Freundin's Auto und sie schlug die Türen in die Auto, sodass sie nicht eine Reise nach Hause bekommen konnte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie begann also, zu Hause zu gehen, zu einem Relatives Haus zu gehen, als sie ein bisschen verloren war und einfach nur den Green Creek Road in der rüren Region von Lake Township am Abend wanderte. Zuerst kam sie zu einem Mann, der auf seinem Motorrad war und sie fragte ihn, ob sie seinen Telefon nutzen könnte, weil sie verloren war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie hat Google Maps eingeladen, um sie in eine Richtung zu zeigen, in die sie gehen wollte. Und dann fragte sie ihn, ob sie ihre Mutter nennen könnte. Aber bevor sie das konnte, ist ihr Telefon gestorben. Der Biker hat also ihr erzählt, in welche Richtung sie gehen wollte, in die Richtung, in die sie gehen wollte. und er ging auf seinen Weg.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Dann holte ein Mann in einem silbernen Minivan neben ihr auf und fragte, ob sie sein Handy benutzen sollte und sie sagte ja. Und er versuchte, dass sie in sein Auto hinein kommt, um sein Handy zu benutzen, also hat sie es gemacht. Als sie ins Auto kam und versucht hat, das Handy zu benutzen, bemerkte sie, dass dieses Handy nicht funktioniert hat. Es war entweder komplett weg oder tot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
und nachdem sie in den Auto kam, hat dieser Mann die Türen geschlossen. Sie hat ihn gefragt, ob sie aus dem Auto kommen könnte und er hat gesagt nein. Er hat einfach nur nach ihr geschaut, bis er die Türen langsam aufgelöst hat und dann eine Waffe von unter seinem Seil genommen hat, sie hat ihn an die Türen gesetzt und sie wusste an diesem Punkt, dass ihr Leben in Gefahr war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Also hat sie die Türen geschlossen, ist aus seinem noch wachsenden Auto rausgekommen und fuhr so schnell wie sie möglicherweise konnte. Es war an diesem Punkt, dass er die Waffe an diese 16-jährige Mädchen gelegt hat. Als sie rannte, fuhr er aus seinem Van und stand dort und beugte die Waffe an sie. Und sie klingelte an ihm, beugte ihn, bitte tötet mich nicht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie schlug ihren Kopf an und begann zu schütteln. Brenda sagte, dass nachdem dieser Mann so interagiert hat, Jessica nicht mehr ihr normales, glückliches Selbst ist. Sie konnte nur sagen, dass Jessica ungeheuer war und dass etwas falsch war. Sie ging zurück in ihr Auto und stand im Parkzimmer, bis die Gasstation geschlossen war. Sie wollte nur darauf achten, dass Jessica sicher ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Als sie weit genug weg von ihm fuhr, sagte er literally, nur verrückt. Ein leiser Scherz. Aber klar, sie hat weitergerannt. Sie war sauber und blutig. Sie ging so weit, wie sie konnte und endete in einem nahen Haus. Sie schlug auf ihre Tür und fragte sie um Hilfe. Natürlich riefen diese schönen Leute die Polizei, die kurz danach aufhörte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie stellten sie ein und fragten sie, was an der Nacht passiert war. Dann fuhren sie weiter und suchten ein anderes Bewerbungsvideo. Sie identifizierten das Auto, das sie glaubten, dem Anwalt gehörte. Sie zeigten ihr später eine Reihe von Bildern. und sie identifizierte eine dieser Fotos als den Mann, der sie verabschiedet hat. Dieser Mann war 46-jähriger Jeffrey Willis.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Als die Polizei angefangen hat, Jeffrey Willis zu beobachten, haben sie so viel Beweise gefunden. Es scheint, wegen der Aktionen dieser enorm wütenden 16-jährigen Frau, Police found evidence that connected Jeffrey Willis to the murders of both Jessica and Rebecca. I can't express this enough because of this 16-year-old girl's bravery. She was able to get two other unsolved murders solved.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
She is the reason that these families have found justice. Her bravery is what led police to being able to lock up this Sie ist ein furchtbarer Pädophil, den wir in einer Minute beenden werden. Aber es ist wegen ihr. Und ich hoffe, dass sie das weiß. Wir wissen nicht, wer sie ist. Und ich bin froh, dass sie ihren Namen nicht verlassen hat. Aber es ist wegen ihr.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Und ich hoffe wirklich, dass sie es okay macht. Ich hoffe wirklich, dass sie die Hilfe bekommen hat, die sie benötigt hat, um sich von so einem Traum zu retten. Aber ich hoffe, dass sie auch weiß, dass sie Gerechtigkeit für zwei Menschen gefunden hat. Frauen, die ihre Leben verloren haben, sowie möglicherweise Tausende von Kindern, die von Jeffrey Willis verurteilt wurden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Also jetzt gehen wir in die Beweise, die die Polizei gefunden hat, die Jeffrey zu diesen verschiedenen Verbrechen verbunden hat. Also zuerst hatte Jeffrey Willis einen 2006er silbernen Dodge Caravan Minivan. Sie fuhren dann weiter und suchten seinen Minivan und innen fanden sie
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
fünf Syringen, eine mit Insulin, die noch drin ist, Fotos von Frauen, die sich verabschiedet und verabschiedet haben, eine Maske, Badeglocken und einen digitalen Videorekorder. Sie haben auch eine Werkstatt gefunden, die eine kleine Box mit Nitrile-Glocken und Plastik-Baggys enthalten hatte, Handkuffe, eine Verabschiedung, Röhrchen, Batterien und eine Ballgagge mit einem Belt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Unter dem Vorderseite seines Autos haben sie einen 22-Kaliber Pistol gefunden. Eine Packung mit sechs Viagra-Pillen in sie und eine Liste mit ein paar Frauen-Namen und Adressen auf sie und eine Warnkabel. Und ich glaube, es gibt noch mehr Beweise in Bezug auf das. Ich habe so viele verschiedene Dinge auf verschiedenen Gründen und in Artikeln gelistet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Also es kann auch noch mehr sein, was sie gefunden haben. Aber das ist fast eine Liste, die ich von Dingen kompiliert habe, die sie in seinem Auto gefunden haben. Es ist egal, ob es mehr war. Egal. This is disgusting. They also found shell casings in the car that matched the gun that was used to shoot Rebecca. They also found evidence of Rebecca's DNA on various items inside of his toolbox.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Then police went and searched Jeffrey's home and they found even more disturbing evidence. They searched his home computer and they found a lot. First, they found a folder labeled homemade and within this folder, waren über 15.000 Videos von Mädchen an High School Swim-Meets und Water Polo-Meets, alle von denen zoomten in auf ihre privaten Teile.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Diese Videos wurden in einem Nachtsichtfilter gedreht, das es so sah, als ob man diese jungen Mädchen in Swimsuits sehen könnte. He also stood outside of different women and girls windows and took videos of them undressing. They then found several external hard drives, which contained several thousands of other disturbing videos.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
He had a bunch of videos downloaded that showed murders, kidnapping, rapes, child pornography, and und alles dazwischen. Dann wurde eines der vielen Smoking Guns, die ihn mit den anderen Mördern verbunden haben, auch auf seinem Computer gefunden. Die Polizei fand ein Folder namens VIX, welches sie glauben ist kurz für Verbrecher. Innerhalb dieses Folders haben sie mehr Folder gefunden
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Jedes mit Jessica, Rebeccas Initialen und ihren Todesdaten. Diese Schilder enthaltenen Bilder von Jessica und Rebecca sowie ihre Missing-Person-Flyer. In Jessica's Schilder fanden sie auch fotografische Fotos von Frauen, die Jessica ähnelten. Es war also offensichtlich, dass er mit diesen Frauen absolut besessen war und dass er auch mit Kindern beteiligt war. schrecklicher Mann.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Diese Nacht endete mit keinen Problemen und Jessica schloss den Laden um 11.30 Uhr und ging zu ihrer Familie nach Hause. Am 26. April war Jessica wieder alleine am Nachtschiff. Normalerweise schloss die Gasstation um 11.30 Uhr. So, by 10.55 pm, she was starting to clean up the place when a customer walked in. This person just bought a lighter and quickly left.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Alle diese Dinge zusammengebracht haben ihn als den sehr offiziellen Angeklagten für alle drei dieser Verbrechen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber als ob sie mehr Beweise benötigen, ging die Polizei auch und fragte Jeffreys Co-Arbeiter über den Tag, an dem Jessica missging, und sie sagten der Polizei, dass er an der Nacht geplant war, aber er stand nicht für diesen Schiff auf und er stand nicht für seine Schiffe einige Tage nachdem. Also, an diesem Punkt
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
They knew that Jeffrey Willis was responsible for both of these murders, but they still hadn't found Jessica's body. They dug all around his home in search for her body, but they did not find her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
They had also found out about another cabin in Manzanola that belonged to one of Jeffrey's friends and they searched there for Jessica's body as well because he had been spotted there several times by witnesses who even saw him mit einer Schaufel, aber leider, selbst nach der Suche nach diesem Gebiet, konnten sie noch nicht Jessica finden oder irgendetwas mit ihr zu tun.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Also kam die Behandlung nach Rebeccas Mord als erstes und das begann im Oktober 2017. Ich glaube, sie haben das gemacht, weil sie wahrscheinlich versucht haben, Jessica zu behandeln, weil sie noch nicht ihre Körper gefunden hatten. Also, technisch gesagt, gab es noch keine Beweise, dass sie tatsächlich gestorben wäre.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber die Beweise, die in diesem Trial verwendet wurden, waren im Grunde die Dinge, über die wir vorhin gesprochen haben. Alle die inkriminierenden und schrecklichen Dinge, die sie in seinem Auto und auf seinem Computer gefunden haben, sowie die Tatsache, dass ihr DNA auf der Beweise in seinem Auto gefunden wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Jedoch, als Jeffrey den Stand aufgenommen hat, um zu bestätigen, dass er seine Unwissenheit behält, und er hat tatsächlich jemanden als verantwortlich für Rebeccas Mord aufgeführt. Er hat gesagt, dass es sein Cousin Kevin Blum war, der Rebekka tatsächlich getötet hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Kevin Blum war tatsächlich ein ehemaliger Gefängniswirt für das Michigan Department of Corrections, aber offensichtlich wurde er verhaftet, nachdem diese Angelegenheiten herausgekommen sind. But either way, Jeffreys defense was that Kevin was absolutely obsessed with Rebecca. He said that Kevin borrowed his pistol just weeks before Rebecca's murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
He said that Kevin returned the gun back to him later, after Rebecca's murder. und dass er auch ein Paar Glöckchen zurückgebracht hat, die er von Jeffrey ausbauen wollte. Aber die Polizei hatte genug Beweise, um zu zeigen, dass dies nicht der Fall war. Kevins DNA war nicht auf der Waffe und Jeffreys war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Und natürlich wissen wir, dass alle Bilder von ihr auf Jeffreys Computer gefunden wurden, nicht Kevins. Dann hat Kevins Frau den Stand genommen, um zu bestätigen, dass Kevin tatsächlich bei einem Fußballspiel mit ihr war, am Tag, als Rebecca gestorben ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber er ist nicht auf dem Weg, weil er noch ein paar Dinge gemacht hat, die sehr schrecklich waren, die wir in ein bisschen Zeit übergehen werden. Die Verwaltung verwendete auch Beweise aus dem 2016-Kidnappieren sowie Beweise aus Jessicas Mord auf die Behandlung von Rebeccas Mord.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie zeigten, dass er ein furchtbarer Predator war, der auf Frauen und Kinder gebeten hat, und er sollte hinter den Bars stehen. Nach nur zehn Tagen Trial am 2. November 2017, ging die 12-Mitglied-Jury in die Verschuldung. Sie versuchten nur 90 Minuten zu verschulden, bevor sie zurückkamen mit der Verdiktung, dass sie verurteilt war von premeditierter Mord und der Fälschung von einem Feuerarm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
So, die nächste Trial war für die Mord von Jessica Herrenga, die im Mai 2018 begann. Wiederum, eine Menge der Beweise, die sie benutzt haben, waren Beweise, die sie in seinem Auto, seinem Computer und seinem Zuhause gefunden haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich möchte auch zurückgehen zu dem, was ich am Anfang dieses Videos gesagt habe, wie ein Kunde und ein Freund von Jessicas an der Gasstation kommentierte, wie sie nicht alleine arbeiten sollte. Und ein anderer männlicher Kunde interagierte und sagte, Yep, that was Jeffrey Willis. And the woman who saw him testified this at court.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Then, by 11.07 pm, one of Jessica's regular customers, Craig Harpster, went to the gas station pump to get some gas, but the card reader wasn't accepting his card. So he walked into the gas station to pay for his gas with cash. Like I said, he was one of Jessica's regular customers, so he knew when she was working.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
It seems like he had just been hanging out at the gas station to watch her before he actually made the move to kidnap her. And again, throughout the entire trial, Jeffrey maintained his innocence. So Jeffrey's defense tried to put the blame on Dakota, oder vielleicht sagen, dass sie weggegangen ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie haben Dakota sehr hart gepresst und wollten diese Bildung darstellen, dass Jessica weggegangen ist und deshalb ihr Körper noch nie gefunden wurde. Also, ich werde an diesem Punkt bemerken, dass Jessica und Dakota beide ein Heroinproblem hatten und sie waren beide auf Methadon, als Jessica weggegangen ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber ihre Freunde, Familie und Dakota haben alle gesagt, dass ihre Erdächtigkeit ihre Fähigkeiten, eine großartige Mutter zu sein, nicht beeinflusst hat Again, Dakota did testify that they did have a rocky relationship. He did admit that one of their fights became physical and they were struggling to get by. He was unemployed and Jessica was the breadwinner, making all of the money to get them by.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
They were both struggling with a lot of things and it was obvious. It also came out that Jessica may have been in a secret relationship with her drug dealer die gehalten wurde, weil sie einen geheimen zweiten Telefon hatte. Aber Dakota sagte, dass er diese Beziehung oder den Telefon nicht wusste, bis nachdem sie vermisst wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Also ja, sie hatten eine schreckliche Beziehung und ehrlich gesagt, würde ich sagen, dass es mehr als schrecklich war. Es klingt wie eine sehr toxische Beziehung für beide und beide hatten Dinge gemacht, die falsch waren. Also hat die Verteidigung versucht, all das zu beurteilen und zu sagen, dass vielleicht Dakota hat sie verletzt oder vielleicht ist sie von ihrem Leben weggegangen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber Dakota behält, dass sie eine sehr nahe Beziehung mit ihrer Mutter und ihrer Großmutter hatte. und dass sie ihn absolut liebte und ihren Sohn liebte und dass sie ihn niemals überlegen würde, ihn zu verlassen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Wie wir wissen von einer Freundin, die früher in diesem Video gefragt wurde, hatte sie die Möglichkeit, ihr Leben zu verlassen und mit einem Freund zu leben, aber sie hat es nicht genommen. Sie wollte ihren Sohn nicht verlassen. Dann nahmen noch mehr Leute den Stand, um über Jeffrey zu testen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ein Co-Arbeiter von Jeffrey sagte, dass er mehrere Tage nach der Verleumdung von Jessica zurückgekommen war und ein paar Schmerzen an ihm hatte, Und als sie ihn fragte, was all diese Schmerzen angetan haben, sagte er einfach, dass er ein neues, spielbares Puppe zu Hause hatte. Also ist es offensichtlich, dass diese Schmerzen zeigen, dass Jessica einen Kampf vorgelegt hat, als er sie getötet hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Dieser Mitarbeiter bestätigte auch, dass sie am Wochenende des 22. Februar 2013 bemerkte, dass ihr Handgun von ihrem Zuhause verloren war. Sie hat diese Verbindung nicht erst gemacht, aber sie hat gesagt, dass Jeffrey wusste, wo sie ihre Waffe hielt. Und diese Waffe hat sich an die Waffe, die in Jeffreys Auto gefunden wurde. Der gleiche, der mit den Kugeln, die für Rebekah getötet wurden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Hallo alle, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück auf meinem Kanal. Also, heutes Fall ist wahrscheinlich eines der am meisten bedrohlichsten Fälle, die ich jemals auf meinem Kanal besprochen habe. Ich wollte das von Anfang an sagen, weil dieses Fall sehr hart wird und es sehr schwierig wird, zu hören.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Dann hat ein Arzt den Stand genommen, um zu bestätigen, dass die Insulin, die in Jeffreys Auto gefunden wurde. Nun, ich glaube, dass Jeffreys Ex-Wife, ich weiß nicht, ob sie damals verheiratet waren, oder ob sie damals Ex-Wife waren, oder ob sie nach dieser ganzen Sache verheiratet wurden. Aber sie hatte Diabetes, deshalb hatte er all diese Insulin.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Der Arzt sagte, dass das Fast-Acting-Insulin war und dass, wenn man jemanden genug mit injectiert hat, es genug sein würde, um jemanden komplett unkapazifiziert zu lassen. Es würde nur 4-5 Minuten dauern, um jemanden Jessica Größe zu machen, um unkapazifiziert durch die Insulin zu werden. Wie wir später in diesem Video herausfinden werden,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
So when he walked to the register, he was expecting to see Jessica there, but she wasn't. So he started calling around and looking for Jessica, but he got no answer. He walked around the store to try and look for Jessica, but he couldn't. He even walked into the walk-in freezer, expecting to see Jessica in there, but she wasn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Es wird nicht gesagt, dass er sich hinter ihr zurückgezogen hat und sie mit dieser Insulin direkt entdeckt hat. Aber ich denke, es sagt, dass er sie, wenn er sie in den Van gebracht hat, nicht zurückkämpfen konnte, wenn er versucht hat, sie in sein Zuhause zu bringen. Dann haben die Detektiven über Jeffreys Zuhause gesprochen, wo sie glauben, dass er Jessica genommen hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
and killed her hours to days after abducting her. First, he had a padlocked door that entered into the basement and then another padlocked room in the basement. Also in the basement, they found almost a dozen bottles of bleach and cleaner, all of which were empty. They also testified about a crinkled up note that they found in the trash can of the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Handwriting specialists looked at this note and they did confirm that it was in fact Jeffrey's handwriting. The note was divided into three sections with the first section being labeled as kit and listed the following items.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Two handcuffs and keys, restraint bar, hood, in parentheses it says two, two handcuffs and keys, a restraint bar, a hood, two ball gags, a restraint board, a toolbox, locks and keys, gloves, tape,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
ein Waschgerät, ein Vibrator-Bullet, ein Nacken-Restraint, eine Tasche Rubber-Glöcke, eine Vibrator-Tasche, ein Vibrator, zwei Batterien, Kondom, französische Tickler, keine Ahnung, was das ist, neunzehn kleine Zip-Tie, vier Niedel, sieben große, ich weiß nicht, was das unbedingt betrifft, vielleicht große Niedel, ich weiß es nicht. eine Hülle und eine Röhre.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Das waren die Dinge auf dieser ersten Seite der Liste. Eine weitere Seite sagte kleine Kamera, große Kamera, kleine Tripod, große Tripod, Gaskan, Anzeigen, Lübe, Video aus dem Haus, wenn auch, und eine Krobar. Dann gab es eine Seite mit den Kleidern, die Unterhaut, ihre Panties, Hoodie und Schuhe bezeichneten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Die Verwaltung theorisierte, dass diese Liste ein Rape-Kitsch sein sollte und dass er die Items auf dieser Liste verwendet hat, um Jessica sexuell zu verletzen und zu zerstören und es wahrscheinlich zu filmen. Nun, wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, haben sie einen Videorekorder gefunden. Aber ich habe noch nicht gesehen, ob sie Videos gefunden haben von dem, was er Jessica gemacht hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich glaube, das wäre eine große Nachricht gewesen. Aber es klingt so, als ob er alles, was er ihr gemacht hat, gedreht hat. Also, wo er das gemacht hat, muss er es in einem viel besseren Ort gemacht haben, als all diese anderen Folgen. weil, wenn diese Videos existieren, glaube ich nicht, dass die Polizei sie gefunden hat, oder zumindest haben sie diese Informationen noch nicht veröffentlicht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie haben auch Jeffreys Telefonnummer getrackt, die mit der Theorie zusammenhängt, dass er zu der Gasstation ging und Jessica dann zurück nach seinem Haus gebracht hat und sie ermordet und getötet hat. Als die Polizei herausgefunden hat, was genau passiert ist, am Abend, an dem er Jessica genommen hat und sie verabschiedet hat, glauben sie, dass er sich zur Gasstation geholt hat und dann
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
He looked around a bit longer and noticed that Jessica's purse was still behind the counter and the register was left slightly open. He said that he was about to just leave, but he had this gut feeling that something was wrong. So he went ahead and called 911 and police showed up shortly after.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Vielleicht hat er sie mit der Waffe auf den Register gezwungen, weil wir wissen, dass ihre Tasche dort war und der Register offen geblieben war. Vielleicht hat er sie gezwungen und sie in die Rückseite gebracht. Und dann vielleicht hat er sie an den Kopf mit dem Hintern seiner Waffe auf den Register gezwungen, um sie nicht zu verteidigen. Und dann hat er sie in seinen Van gesetzt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Vielleicht hat er sie dann mit der Insulin injiziert. Und dann hat er sie zu seinem Haus gebracht, wo er sie später getötet und getötet hat. Es ist 100% glaubbar, dass er sie getötet hat. Dass er sie viel durchgemacht hat, bevor er sie getötet hat. Sie denken nicht, dass er sie direkt getötet hätte. Das andere, was mit dem Thema zusammenhängt, ist, wenn es um Rebecca geht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich werde sie kurz zurücklesen. Das ist, dass... Natürlich sieht es so aus, als ob er sie gefunden hätte. Er hat sie einfach hochgezogen, sie in den Kopf geschossen und dann weg. Ich denke nicht, dass das der Fall ist. Ich denke, er hat sie in sein Auto genommen und sie dann in ähnliche Weise verurteilt, wie er Jessica verurteilt hat. sie auf den Weg gebracht hat, ohne jemanden zu sehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Denn, wiederum, niemand hat Schüsse gehört. Niemand hat ihn gesehen. Und es wird erlaubt, dass sie auf einen Jog ging. Aber vielleicht war sie nur bereit für einen. Und er hat sie gesehen und hat sie schnell genommen. Ich weiß nicht genau, wie das geschehen ist, aber es gab Beweise von ihrer DNA auf ein paar der Items in seinem Toolbox.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Das macht es also ziemlich offensichtlich, dass er diese Items auf sie benutzt hat und sie auch zerstört hat. As for why he would have just left her body out there, I don't know. I don't know why he would take the steps to hide Jessica's body so well and then not tell anybody where it is just to leave Rebecca out there. Maybe he felt like he was going to get caught. I don't know.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Maybe something happened where he just had to throw her out of his car. I honestly don't know. Aber wir wissen, dass Rebekah gefunden wurde, während sie noch atmet. Also hat er sie nicht sofort getötet. Oder zumindest hat er es versucht und er konnte es nicht. Das sind nur meine Gedanken, die in das Ganze gehen. Ich habe es noch nicht ganz gesehen, wie es beschrieben wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
was sie denken, was mit Rebecca passiert ist. Ich weiß nicht, was sie auf ihrer Autopsie gefunden haben. Ich hätte mich eher darauf interessieren sollen, ehrlich gesagt. Wenn ich etwas anderes über die Bedingungen von Rebeccas Körper finde, werde ich hier eine Stimme machen. Aber sonst ist das nur mein Denkprozess mit beiden dieser Frauenmörder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Jessica's trial ended after only 6 days of testimony and again after 90 minutes of jury deliberation. The jury came back with the verdict of guilty of first degree felony murder and the sexually motivated kidnapping of Jessica Haringa. He was also charged with several counts of child pornography for all of the videos that were found on his computer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich glaube, dass das in einer anderen Trial war, aber ich werde das hier einfach aufhören. Wir müssen nicht mehr über die Beweise einer anderen Trial reden, weil wir bereits wissen, was sie auf seinem Computer gefunden haben. Insofern, als ob Jeffrey verurteilt worden war mit der Verabschiedung der 16-Jährigen, bin ich mir eigentlich nicht sicher.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
So after he was reported missing, the store's manager, Sue Thalet, was also called to the Axon gas station to speak with police. And of course, she also noted that Jessica left behind her purse and left the register open, both of which were very, very strange. She also had a bit of a story to tell police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Die letzten Artikel, die ich an diesem Thema gesehen habe, waren von 2018-2019 und die meisten von ihnen sagten, Es ist immer noch vorgesehen. Ein Trial ist vorgesehen. Sie wissen nicht, ob sie mit Tatsachen durchgehen oder ob sie sie verlassen werden. Also bis jetzt weiß ich nicht, ob er jemals verhaftet wurde, aber es sieht nicht so aus, als wäre er es.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Es ist sehr möglich, dass sie die Tatsachen verlassen, weil sie weiß, dass er für zwei andere Mörder in Gefängnis gehen wird und dass er nicht raus ist. und sie wollte einfach nicht noch ein weiteres Trial durchsetzen, um zu beschreiben, was mit ihr passiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich würde völlig verstehen, wenn sie einfach nicht mehr ins Trial gehen wollte und dort sitze und wieder darüber sprechen würde, was mit ihr passiert ist und dann überprüfen würde. Und, weißt du, als ich die Überprüfung von dieser armen 16-jährigen Mädchen sah, fragten sie ihr viele wirklich furchtbare Fragen wie, weißt du, haben die Drogen und Alkohol dich erinnern.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ist es möglich, dass das nicht wirklich geschehen ist und dass du es einfach machst und solche Sachen. Es war ein bisschen verletzend, aber ich gehe mehr dazu, was Jeffrey gesagt hat, in einer Minute.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber egal, für die Dinge, mit denen er verurteilt wurde, war Jeffrey Willis verurteilt mit Leben im Gefängnis ohne die Möglichkeit des Paroles, also hoffentlich wird er für den Rest seines Lebens hinter den Bars sein. Zweitens möchte ich auch erwähnen, dass Jeffrey durch beide Trialen seine Unwissenheit behauptet hat
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Und er hat wirklich nur Emotionen gezeigt, als er darüber sprach, wie innozent er war. Nichts, als sie beschrieben haben, was mit diesen drei Frauen passiert ist. Er hat nur darum geachtet, seinen eigenen Arsch zu retten und erlaubt zu sein, mit seinen eigenen furchtbaren sexuellen Wünschen gegen Frauen und junge Mädchen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Jetzt, ich hätte es vorhin erwähnt, aber es kam heraus, dass er die Waffe benutzt hat, um sie zu bedrohen, um sie zu schießen. Es war tatsächlich ein Fake Gun. Aber das ist egal. Nichts davon ist egal. Sie wusste es nicht. Es war eine sehr echte Bedrohung. Und das ist wahrscheinlich der einzige Grund, warum er sie nicht schießt. Ich glaube wirklich, dass es, wenn es eine echte Waffe war,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
dass dieser 16-Jährige leider nicht wohnen würde. Also danke Gott, das war nicht ein echter Wurf. Aber er hat einfach gesagt, dass er versucht hat, dieser 16-Jährigen zu helfen. Irgendwie hat er ihr ein Handy gegeben, das nicht funktioniert hat, und hat eine Waffe an sie gelegt und gesagt, dass es nur eine Lüge war. I don't know how someone comes up with this type of thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
He said, I'm reading that in a dramatic way because I feel like that's what he genuinely thinks. I'm truly sorry for this oversight.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
She pointed out that earlier, her and her husband had been out riding motorcycles around the gas station at around 11 p.m. Sie sagten, dass sie an dieser Zeit einen silbernen Chrysler Town & Country Minivan gefunden haben, der hinter der Gasstation fährt, in die Gegend, in die die Semi-Trucks normalerweise fahren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
These four veteran police officers, including Jim Christensen, whom I grew up with in Porterville, knew that the state's ballistic sector was about to perjure himself at the behest of Prosecutor Hilton.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
The court stated, it is a requirement that cannot be deemed to be satisfied.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie wusste, dass der Laden nie so spät geliefert wurde, also ging sie und ihr Mann zurück, um zu sehen, was da los war. Sie sagte, dass sie diesen Mann an der Rückseite des Minivans sahen, und dann die Tür schnell geschlossen und dann wieder geöffnet und dann wieder schnell geschlossen. Nachdem das, sahen sie diesen Minivan wegfahren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Und der Fakt, dass er das sogar sagen kann, der Fakt, dass er sagen kann, dass irgendwie DNA-Evidenz von einer toten Frau in seinem Auto, Kindespornografie, all das auf seinen Computer gestellt wurde, ist das, was er sagt? Ist er sagen, dass die Polizei das auf seinen Computer gestellt hat, um ihn zu versuchen, ihn schlecht zu sehen? Was ist er? Ich weiß nicht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich werde nicht zu viel darüber sprechen, weil ich... Ich habe mich an diesen Kerl gefühlt. Er ist furchtbar. Und ich will nicht mehr über ihn reden. So, jetzt gehen wir zurück zu Jeffreys Cousin, Kevin Blum und wie er versucht hat, einen Mord auf ihn zu beurteilen und versucht hat, ihn verantwortlich zu machen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Also, damals, als die Investition erst angefangen hat, sprach Kevin an die Polizei und sagte, dass Jeffrey ihn tatsächlich gefragt hat, um über seine Haustür zu stoppen und so hat er es getan. Kevin sagte, dass er in den Wohnraum dieses Hauses kam, als er eine Frau sah, die nackt war und auf dem Boden stand, mit ihren Händen und Beinen verabschiedet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Kevin sagte, dass er glaubte, dass diese Frau Jessica war. Er sagte, dass diese Frau einen offiziellen Kopfschmerz hatte und dass Jeffrey ihm erzählte, dass er Jessica folgte und dass er sie in den Kopf gesetzt hat, sie in seinen Van gesetzt hat, sie nach Hause genommen hat und dann sexuell verurteilt und sie verabschiedet hat, was er natürlich nicht so gesagt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
aber dann, dass er sie getötet hat. Kevin hat den Polizisten erzählt, dass er Jeffrey dann entzündet und Jessicas Körper getötet hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Er hat gesagt, dass die beiden ihre Körper in eine Flasche eingepackt haben und dann ihre Körper in ein Gebäude auf Sheridan Road nahe Lake Den Road gebracht haben, wo Jeffrey bereits Schubladen für sie vorbereitet hat und dann sie in ein Loch getötet hat, das Jeffrey bereits vorgedruckt hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Jetzt wieder einmal, sie wussten, dass es schrecklich war, weil sie nicht so spät nach dem Anruf gekommen sind, aber es gab wirklich nichts anderes, was sie tun konnten. Sie sahen diesen Mann nicht, wenn er etwas stehlt oder ein Verbrechen verursacht, also sind sie danach einfach weg.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Nach diesem initialen Anruf, hat er später seine Statements beurteilt und den Polizisten gesagt, dass er diese ganze Sache gemacht hat. Aber am Ende wurde er mit der Anzeige, um Mord zu verurteilen, als auch mit zwei Anzeigen, um die Polizei zu verurteilen. Aber er wurde von der Gefängnis auf Zeit gehalten, die nur 476 Tage war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
was ich glaube, viel zu wenig ist, wenn er nur darüber gesprochen hätte, wo Jessica's Körper versteckt war und den Polizisten erzählt hätte, wo sie war, dann hätten sie sie vielleicht gefunden. Und vielleicht hätte das die Möglichkeit gegeben, Jessica's Familie etwas näher zu bringen. Aber anstattdessen muss er
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
ein seltsamer Idiot und sagt, dass er die Polizei verurteilt hat und er wird wahrscheinlich nie mit dem, was wirklich passiert ist, herauskommen, was, wiederum, wirklich enttäuschend und frustrierend ist. Jessica's Familie ist immer noch da, designt auf den Tag zu warten, an dem sie Jessica nach Hause bringen kann und ihr den richtigen Geburtstag geben kann, den sie verdient.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Nach Rebeccas Behandlung hat Jeffrey Willis nicht mehr zu den Stimmungen von Rebeccas Familie gehört. Am 9. März 2019 hat die Michigan House of Representatives Rebekka Bletsches Gesetz übernommen. Dies benötigt, dass die Anwesenden zu den Stimmungen von Rebeccas Familie hören. Was ich finde, ist eine großartige Regel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich denke, sie müssen genau hören, wie ihre Aktionen die Leben so vieler Menschen beeinflusst haben, außer denjenigen, die er getötet hat. Also bin ich wirklich froh, dass diese Regel tatsächlich geschlossen wurde. Dann, auch am 9. Dezember 2013, brachten Jessica's Eltern eine neue Regel an den Michigan State of Representatives. Diese Regel heißt Jessica's Law.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Und dieses Gesetz braucht es, dass Gasstationen und Convenience-Store zwischen 11 Uhr und 5 Uhr offen sind, Sicherheitssysteme installieren oder zumindest zwei Mitarbeiter gleichzeitig arbeiten. Jedoch ist dieses Gesetz noch nicht so weit durchgeführt, wie ich es gesehen habe.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie beschreibt diesen Mann, als hätte er wildblonde Haare, und sie sagte, dass sie seine Gesichter genug erinnert, um einen Kompositen-Sketcher zu geben. Dann wurde die Polizei über ein Bewerbungsvideo gefragt, aber sie hatten keine an der Gasstation. Die Polizei fing also an, die Gasstation umzuschauen, um zu sehen, ob sie noch mehr Beweise finden können. Und sie haben ein paar Dinge gefunden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Small Business Owners are concerned about the costs of hiring extra people and the cost of building these security systems. Which, I'll just come out right and say it, I think that's ridiculous. I am someone who has a soft spot for small businesses. I do think that there are a lot of certain laws that really, really hurt small businesses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Speziell viele der Betragsregeln und sogar die Minimumwage-Regeln können kleine Unternehmen schaden, wenn sie nicht mit den immer verändernden Regeln und Beträgen und allem anderen, was sie bezahlen müssen, aufhalten. Aber wenn du einen Laden haben willst, der abends offen ist, Du solltest eine Art Sicherheit haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Es ist nicht fair, dass Frauen oder Männer Nachtschiffe komplett alleine arbeiten. Ich arbeitete persönlich in einem Grocery-Store in der Hochschule und sie versagten mir, als ich dort angefangen habe, dass ich nie nach der Nacht rausgehen musste, um die Grocery-Karten, die im Parkplatz waren, zu sammeln. These companies don't care about your safety and it's just... So infuriierend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
So I quit that same day. I waited until right before my shift, which some people might say is like unprofessional or irresponsible, but I waited until right before my shift to call in and say I'm not coming today or ever. Wenn sie die Sicherheit einer 16-jährigen Mädchen so sehr enttäuschen oder die Sicherheit jeder, dann habe ich keine Bedeutung für ihr Scheduling oder ihr Staffing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Denn sie haben ihre Worte verbrannt. Es ist nicht nur so, dass sie mich zu diesem Zeitpunkt schedulen, sondern es ist auch der Fakt, dass sie mir gesagt haben, dass sie nicht gehen werden. Und sie haben literal gesagt, dass wir keine jungen Frauen am Abend alleine draußen haben würden. Das ist einfach nicht etwas, was wir tun. Und dann haben sie es gemacht. Es war verrückt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie haben eine 16-jährige Mädchen direkt verletzt, und ich würde das nicht akzeptieren. Also, das zu wissen, macht mich wirklich traurig, dass wir in 2021 sind. Es gibt so viele Möglichkeiten für Sicherheitsvideos. Die Leute haben sie auf ihren Vorräumen. nur um zu sagen, dass es viel zu teuer ist. Es gibt viele Möglichkeiten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich verstehe, dass viele kleine Unternehmen wirklich mit bestimmten Regeln kämpfen, besonders jetzt. Und es gibt viele Regeln, die es fast unmöglich machen, eine kleine Firma in bestimmten Bereichen des Landes zu halten. Aber wenn du es nicht kannst, zumindest einen zweiten, wahrscheinlich Minimum-Wage-Arbeiter zu bezahlen, um in
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
or install video cameras, then you shouldn't have a business that stays open that late. If you can't afford to keep your employees safe, then you shouldn't have a business that stays open in the middle of the night. Das ist es. Das war es für heute. Ich weiß, das hat mich aufgeregt und aufgeregt und ich habe ein bisschen geredet, aber diese Fälle sind sehr nah und nah an meinem Herzen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Der Fakt, dass dieser Mann so viele schreckliche Dinge auf seinem Computer hatte und dass er so ehrgeizig war, um an den Trial zu kommen und zu sagen, dass er von allem unnötig ist, Es ist einfach verrückt und es zeigt mir einfach, wie schmerzhaft manche Leute sind. Ich denke, es muss mehr Sicherheitsmaßnahmen für Menschen bei der Arbeit geben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Es ist irgendwie verrückt, dass sie nicht schon da sind und dass es nicht mal eine Gesetzgebung gibt, um das zu machen. Ich hoffe wirklich, dass das in der Zukunft passiert. Und ich möchte auch sagen, dass ich verstehe, dass es manchmal nicht einfach ist, einen Job zu bekommen. Aber wenn dein Arbeitstil dich auf Risiko stellt und dich anfühlt, in Gefahr zu sein und dich unsicher zu machen,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie haben also einen Blutstrahl draußen gefunden, in dem Bereich, wo die Liefertrucks normalerweise gingen. in dem gleichen Spot, wo Sue und ihr Mann den Mann mit seinem silbernen Minivan gesehen haben. Natürlich wurde dieses Blut für eine Testung ausgeliefert und kam schlussendlich wieder zurück, als ob es Jessica gehörte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Bitte verabschieden Sie sich von Ihrem Job. Es wird immer noch ein Job geben, den Sie finden können. Und ich weiß, dass es sehr einfach für mich ist, zu sagen, als ich nur 16 war, dass das passiert ist. Aber auch jetzt, wenn ich in einem Job war, das mich sehr unsicher fühlte und sie versuchten, etwas darüber zu tun und mich in Gefahr zu stellen, würde ich nicht bleiben. Also wiederum.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Würdest du etwas Geld verlieren und vielleicht in die Schuld gehen oder in die Verschuldung gehen? Oder einfach mit den Eltern leben? Ich weiß nicht. Würdest du das in Schwierigkeiten haben oder würdest du dein Leben verlieren? Ich würde lieber ein bisschen kämpfen, als mein Leben zu verlieren, weil ich einen Job habe, der mich überhaupt nicht interessiert. Hier gehe ich wieder zum Rampeln.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber egal, ich bin wirklich froh, dass dieser schreckliche Pädophil und Predator hinter den Bars ist. Und ich hoffe sehr, dass er für den Rest seines Lebens da ist. Eine Sache, für die ich mich schuldig fühle, ist, dass Gefühle von Kindesverbrechern und Menschen, die Frauen töten, nicht freundlich genommen werden. Also hoffe ich wirklich, dass er die schwerste Zeit im Gefängnis hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Wenn du weißt, was ich meine. Ich hoffe wirklich, dass er es durchführt. Egal, ich würde gerne deine Gedanken über diesen Fall hören. Jessica's Familie wartet noch auf den Tag, an dem ihr Vaters Körper gefunden wird. so dass sie endlich Bescheid haben können und die Frieden haben können, dass sie weiß, wo sie ist und einen Ort hat, um sie zu wehren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber wirklich dieses Mal, das ist, wo ich heute das Video beenden werde. Wenn dir dieses Video gefallen hat, dann lass dir einen Daumen nach oben und abonniere meinen Kanal. Ich veröffentliche neue Verbrechen und Geheimnisse-Videos jede Woche. Vergesst nicht, den Notifikationsknopf anzuschalten, damit du keine meiner zukünftigen Videos verpasst.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Don't forget to go ahead and follow me on Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure to go ahead and send them over to my email at rachelshannincases at gmail.com. With that, I hope you guys have a great week. Stay safe and stay healthy. And I hope to see you next time. Bye!
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Neben dem Blutschmerz fanden sie auch Teile einer Waffe, die einen Laser-Sight-Batterie-Kopfer und zwei Batterien enthalten. Sie fuhren auch voran und sahen eine Surveillance-Video, um zu sehen, ob sie einen Van mit dieser Beschreibung finden können. Und sie fuhren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie fanden eine Surveillance-Video eines Vans mit dieser Beschreibung, der eine Bar nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Old Homestead-Bar nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exxon-Gasstation nahe der Exx
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber es gibt einfach so viel Informationen, die man übergehen muss, also gehen wir direkt in den Fall. Heute werden wir über die geschlossenen Mörder von Jessica Heringa und Rebecca Bletsch diskutieren. Jessica Haringa wurde am 16. Juli 1987 geboren zu den Eltern Shelly Haringa und Pete Kinkins und sie war die jüngste der drei Töchter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Die Polizei ging dann weiter und startete, alle zu interviewen, die sie können. Und natürlich war ihr erster Anwalt Dakota, Jessicas Freundin. Mit basically every investigation, as you guys know, they pretty much always have to start by looking at who was closest to the victim.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
When police questioned Dakota, he told them that he had been home all evening with their baby and that he didn't even have his own car, so...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
he would have needed a ride to even get to the gas station police did look into his cell phone records and they did confirm that he was in fact home that night so they ruled him out as a suspect for the time being so like i said sue fallot was able to remember what this man looked like enough to give a composite sketch to an artist they released this sketch three days after her disappearance and thousands of people called in with tips however it seems like the man in the sketch just looked like a normal guy that can look like just about anybody so
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
fast jeder blamierte einfach jemanden, den sie wussten, für diesen Mann zu sein, also bekamen sie keine echten Leads aus diesem Sketch. Dann fingen die Polizei weiter und fingen an, Jessica' Freunde mehr aufzuschauen. Nach der Befragung von ihren Freunden, hat die Polizei herausgefunden, dass Jessica viele Männer hatte, die in den Stor kommen und mit ihr verabschieden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Diese Freunde haben bemerkt, dass Jessica eine sehr freundliche und blöde Persönlichkeit hatte und viele Männer es die falsche Art und Weise nehmen und anfangen, für Jessica Gefühle zu entwickeln, die nicht reziprikiert waren. Einer dieser Männer war 37-jähriger Jess Ammerman. Er war ein Plumber, der verheiratet war, aber obwohl er verheiratet war, fiel er absolut in Liebe mit Jessica.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
und er hat den Polizisten verurteilt, dass er an der Nacht, an der Jessica verletzt wurde, um 9.30 Uhr an der Gasstation war, dass er zu ihr liebt und ihr erzählt hat, dass er von seiner Frau verheiratet werden wollte, um mit ihr zu sein. Aber natürlich hat sie ihm nicht gesagt, was er hören wollte, also hat er die Gasstation schmerzhaft verlassen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Er hat gesagt, dass er danach zu einer anderen Parkplatte fuhr und dann seine Frau angerufen hat, um über eine Stunde mit ihr auf dem Telefon zu sprechen. So police looked into local surveillance videos and his cell phone records to confirm what he was saying and they did find out that the story was true. However, police didn't immediately let them off free.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
They went ahead and talked to Jess's wife who said that she did know about the relationship and she was completely fine with it. But police definitely didn't believe her. Für mich ist es seltsam, wenn Späuse immer sagen, oh ja, ich weiß, er hat verletzt. Ich weiß, sie haben Gefühle für jemanden anderen, aber ich bin einfach cool damit. Ich denke nicht, dass das jemals passiert.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Ich denke, wenn jemand, ob er schuldig oder ungewiss ist, sie nicht der Polizei sagen wollen, Ja, er ist ein Verbrecher und ich hasse diese Frau. Aber nur weil du dich über deinen Mann verabschiedet hast, macht dich kein Mörder oder so etwas. Aber es bedeutet auch nicht, dass du cool mit deiner Schwester verbrechen solltest. Du kannst sowohl an deiner Schwester für Verbrechen wütend sein,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
und auch nicht ein Mörder, weil ich einfach nicht denke, dass die Polizei es überhaupt glauben wird, wenn du sagst, oh ja, ich bin total cool mit ihm zu schämen. Für mich, denke ich, macht es dich noch schlimmer. Aber egal, die Polizei hat Jess und seine Frau beide auf Polygraph-Tests gefragt und sie haben geglaubt, aber die Ergebnisse dieser Tests wurden nie öffentlich gemacht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Egal, es sah so aus, als ob es genug Beweise gab, um die Polizei in ihrem Hinterkopf zu halten. aber sie haben nicht wirklich bezeichnet, dass beide ihre Hauptverbrecher sind an dieser Zeit. Jemand anderes, den die Polizei betrachtet hat, wurde Rob Fallett genannt, der Sue Falletts Bruder war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Als sie sterbte, war sie nur 25 Jahre alt und sie hatte einen dreijährigen Sohn namens Zeven, den sie absolut liebte. All she wanted to do was to work hard and create the best life possible for her son. She was also engaged to a man named Dakota, who was Zevens father.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Er hat der Polizei gesagt, dass er auf dem Weg zu einem Fischereit auf 9 Uhr an der Gasstation stoppte, um Zigaretten zu kaufen. Er hat der Polizei verurteilt, dass Jessica vor ihrer Verschmutzung tatsächlich ihm sagte, dass sie nicht glücklich war mit ihrer Heimat. He offered for her to stay with him, but she declined. So of course this made police look a little bit into him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
So they went ahead and checked out his alibi to see if he really was on this fishing trip. And they did find out that he was only in the gas station for a couple of minutes that night. bevor er 40 Meilen zu seiner Fischreise fährt. Also wieder ein weiterer Tod.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Als die Polizei Jessicas Mutter interviewt hat, hat sie ihnen erzählt, dass Jessica einen Journal gehalten hat, also haben sie weitergefunden und diesen Journal gelesen. Und was sie gelesen haben, hat die Polizei zurück in Dakota gesehen, als ein Verbrecher. Sie hat in ihrem Journal geschrieben, dass sie nicht glücklich war mit ihrem Leben mit Dakota.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie hat geschrieben, dass er kontrolliert war und zu einem Zeitpunkt verletzt war. Aber er wurde über das beantwortet und sagte, dass er nie verletzt war gegen sie. Er hat beurteilt, dass sie eine starke Beziehung hatten. Sie kämpften oft. Aber sie waren die Dinge herauszuarbeiten und er hatte keinen Grund, die Mutter seines Kindes zu schaden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Er war sehr kooperativ mit der Investigation als Ganzes und die Polizei hatte nicht wirklich etwas, das ihn verantwortlich machen könnte. Aber Jessicas Familie glaubte seit einiger Zeit stark, dass Dakota verantwortlich war. Sie haben es bekannt gemacht, dass sie ihn nicht liebten. Sie sagten, dass er abusiv, kontrollierend und manipulativ war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Aber wiederum gab es nicht genug Beweise, um ihn als echten Verbrecher anzusehen. Zwei Jahre passen also in diesem Fall ohne irgendein Bewegung. Und die Familie suchte designt Antworten. Ich habe die Facebook-Page der Familie für Jessica gelesen und es war einfach so schmerzhaft. An einem Punkt sagten sie, dass Zeven, Jessica's kleiner Junge,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
was worried that when his mommy came back that she wouldn't recognize him anymore. The family was also posting about how he was growing up into this brilliant, kind, silly, curious, outgoing and happy young man. He is such an adorable little boy and it absolutely breaks my heart that her baby had to start to learn how to live his life without his mother by his side.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Es gab eine andere Frau, die sehr ähnlich zu Jessica aussah. Sie wurde 2014 von einem Mann, der sehr nahe an der Exxon-Gasstation wohnte, verabschiedet. Und die Verletzte wurde nach der Verletzung von diesem Mann getötet und verabschiedet. Aber ihr Fall war überhaupt nicht mit Jessica verbunden, also werde ich nicht weiter in die Details dieses Falles eingehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
However, there was a murder of another young woman who police realized could be connected to Jessica's disappearance. Rebecca Bletsch was born on November 23, 1977 to parents Nicholas and Deborah Winberg. She worked at a nursing home called Sanctuary on Shore as an occupational therapist assistant and she was a basketball coach for middle school girls. She was married to a man named Kevin Bletsch
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie wollte schlussendlich nach der Schule gehen und Accountant werden, aber für die Zeit war sie am Exxon-Gasstation in Norton Shores, Michigan, um Geld zu verdienen und sich und ihre Familie zu unterstützen. Am April 25, 2013 arbeitete Jessica einen Nachtschiff am Exxon-Gasstation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie hatte eine Tochter namens Ellie und eine Großvaterin namens Megan. Sie wurde als sehr freundlich, ausgehend und mit vielen Freunden kennengelernt. Am 29. Juni 2014, um 6 Uhr Uhr, war Jessica nur noch am Joggen, als sie plötzlich drei Mal in den Kopf geschossen wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Um 6.11 Uhr wurde sie von einem Nachbarn gefunden, einem Nachbarn namens Mark Clint, weniger als einen Meilenraum von ihrem Zuhause auf der Automobilstraße in Muskegon County, Michigan. Initial dachte er, dass sie nur ein Verletzter eines Hits und Runs war, und als er sie gefunden hat, war sie noch am Atmen. Also hat er die Polizei angerufen, die kurz nachher angekommen ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Is she unconscious?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Sie hatte viele normale Kunden, die sie wirklich liebten und ihre Firma wirklich genossen und sie würden mit ihr im Gespräch bleiben, wenn sie arbeitete. Eines ihrer normalen Kunden wurde Brenda Nestor genannt. Sie war am Abend an der Gasstation und fühlte sich ein wenig ungeheuer, weil Jessica den Nachtschiff alleine arbeiten musste.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
How a Botched Kidnapping SOLVED 2 Murders: Jessica Heeringa and Rebekah Bletsch
Okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE SYDNEY LOOFE CASE
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you all today is one that is such a crazy case with a lot of different twists and turns and there are a lot of names involved in different ways that each person connects with the next and it's just so wild how all of this turns out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
There he was described as passionate and serious about his work. He had many different interests and he was always writing about the things that he was passionate about. He was a well-respected member of the law faculty at FSU and was known as a prolific scholar in the areas of criminal law and punishment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, there was actually an error made on the dispatcher's end. They misreported the urgency level, basically putting it to a lower urgency, which resulted in a delay in the EMTs arriving to Dan's home. It actually took 19 minutes for help to arrive. When they did finally arrive to the scene, they found that Dan's car was parked in the garage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He was inside, slumped over at the driver's seat with blood all over his head. It was clear from the jump that Dan had suffered from a gunshot wound to his head. He was immediately transferred from the scene to the hospital, but unfortunately, the following day, 41-year-old Dan Markell died from his injuries.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Of course, upon the discovery of Dan's body, police spoke with the people in the community to find out what they heard and saw. They first spoke with the neighbor who called 911 to report the shooting. This neighbor said that he heard the sound of a gunshot, so he immediately looked out of his window and he actually saw a small silver or light colored vehicle that looked like a Prius.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
backing out of Dan's driveway. It was pretty obvious that this Toyota Prius must have had something to do with the shooting since it can't be a coincidence that this car was in the driveway just a moment before a man is shot in his garage. So police went around the area to trace Dan's steps that morning to see if they could find any surveillance footage that could give them any better answers.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So police went around the area to trace Dan's steps that morning to see if they could find any surveillance footage that could give them any better answers. So after dropping the kids off at daycare, as we know, Dan went to Premier for a workout. Well, their parking lot actually had surveillance cameras.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He wrote a few law review articles on different topics, including abolishing the death penalty, as well as a critique piece on using shaming as a form of punishment. Many of his works were published in different university libraries, as well as in the New York Times. He also had a blog where he would write all about all of his different ideas, being referred to as a pioneer of legal blogging.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
And once Dan's car was seen arriving to the parking lot, cameras picked up a silver or light green Toyota Prius entering the parking lot right after Dan parked his car. After Dan went into the gym, the Prius is seen moving around the parking lot to another spot before just sitting in the parking lot while Dan is working out. Nobody is ever seen leaving the Prius during that time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then, when Dan left Premier, the same car was seen following closely behind him, also leaving the gym, driving in the same direction as Dan's car. Then police found additional surveillance cameras that picked up the entrance to Dan's neighborhood. This camera picked up that same Toyota Prius following Dan's car into the neighborhood just before the time of the shooting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, all of this footage was pretty grainy, so it took a while to analyze the footage, but eventually they came to the conclusion that the car was most likely a green or silver 2006 to 2009 Toyota Prius. The car looked to have tinted windows, and they noticed a SunPass transponder in the front. This is a device that allows you to go through toll roads if you're from Illinois like me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It's called an I-Pass. Other states have E-ZPass and so on. So, using this, police looked into the SunPass records of all the cars that were on Alligator Alley and I-75 on the day of the murder. These are the roads that would have been used to get to Dan's home. It turned out that on that day, there was only one Prius that passed through those roads.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
This Prius and the SunPass transponder were both registered to a rental car company based out of Miami, Florida. Using that, police looked at the records of the people who rented a car from them in the days surrounding Dan's murder and and one name that stuck out to them was Luis Rivera. On the form, they listed a second name, listed as the renter's brother, a man named Sigfredo Garcia.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
This car was rented out from July 15th through July 21st, 2014. Each of these rental cars is equipped with a GPS monitor that reports its location to the rental company every 25 hours in case of a theft or non-return. On July 15th, it was located in Bay Village, Florida. By July 18th, it was in the area just around Dan's house in Tallahassee, Florida before it returned to Miami on July 19th.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then police looked into the cell phone records of these two men and they found them to be consistent with the GPS data. It confirmed that these men were in the area of Dan's house on the date and time of the murder. I also want to note that as police were investigating these two men, a witness came forward to report seeing the other men and meeting up with them about a month before the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The witness said that the two men, fitting Luis' and Sigfredo's description, asked him to book a hotel room for the night of July 17, 2014, in his name, so the witness's name, so that neither of the two men would be connected to the motel. The witness reported that he saw Luis holding a silver short barrel revolver when he met him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Turns out that police did find a bullet that matched a revolver at the scene and they found no shell casings at the scene either. Of note, when shooting a gun like a semi-automatic pistol, shell casings will fly off and land on the ground.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then he even co-authored a published book called Privilege of Punish, Criminal Justice and the Challenge of Family Ties. He was known to be someone who was very much passionate about his ideas. And even though he was very stubborn about his way of thinking, he was that way because he thought so deeply and so carefully about what he said and why.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
However, a revolver does not leave any shell casings, so unless someone sticks around the scene to pick up all of the shell casings before they leave, which does not seem to be the case in this case, that led investigators to believe that Dan was shot with a revolver, and it seemed to match the revolver that the witness saw Luis carrying.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, Luis Rivera was apparently a big leader in a notorious Latin Kings gang, which had a strong presence in Miami. So at that time, police made the connection between them and Dan's murder. Now, as I'm saying all of this, it seems like it happened pretty quickly, but it actually took two years to investigate the entire thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
But by May of 2016, both men were arrested in connection to Dan's murder. However, The big question here was why in the world would these men from Miami make a seven-hour drive all the way to North Florida just to kill a man that they had absolutely no connection to? Well, that is a big question that police needed to answer. So let's go back in time just a bit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Of course, after Dan's murder, police immediately took Wendy in for questioning. Of course, the fact that she was going through a very bitter divorce with Dan was obviously a big motive for wanting him dead. In the interview, Wendy seemed very distraught.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She pretty much immediately said that Dan treated her poorly and that she was worried that one of her friends may have done this to him, thinking that this was the right thing to do. I...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then as the interview progressed, she sort of talked about just her life with Dan and talked about the different people that, you know, could have been involved or the different people that knew him or liked him or disliked him. Several hours into the interview, Wendy brought up a man named Jeff who she had been dating.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He was a fellow professor at FSU and the two had been seeing each other for nine months before Dan's death. According to Wendy, Jeff was unhappy with how Dan had treated Wendy in the past. She said that Dan and Jeff were actually cordial anytime they happened to see each other, so there was never any reason for her to think that Jeff or Dan had any issues with one another.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Obviously, Dan isn't going to love seeing his ex-wife's new boyfriend, but other than that, there didn't seem to be any awkwardness. However, She did say that in the days before and after Dan's death, Jeff started to get a bit more jealous and possessive. He accused her of still wanting to talk to Dan and having a relationship with him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He got upset that she deleted text messages off her phone and things like that. Those are behaviors that he had never exhibited before that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
But even so, he was the type of person who encouraged debate and wanted to hear other ideas because he felt that it was important for law professors to discuss the important issues even if they were not the same opinion. Those who knew Dan described that he was the type of guy who loved to bring people together,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, two nights after questioning Wendy, police obviously brought Jeff in for questioning as well. Now, police were able to verify that Jeff had an alibi. He was over 100 miles away at the time of Dan's murder on a business trip, but even so, Jeff was able to provide some useful information to the police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
If you were at a social gathering with Dan, he was the type of guy who would walk right up to you and introduce you to whoever he was talking to at the time. He wanted everybody in any social situation to fit in and partake in the group conversations. He was known to be brilliant and a very upfront and open person. He was never timid or cautious.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It took many hours over the course of three police interviews, but eventually Jeff mentioned to police that Wendy may not have been the person to look at here. He did not think that Wendy had this much resentment towards her ex-husband to want to kill him. But he said that Wendy's brother Charlie and her mother Donna absolutely hated Dan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
And it wasn't like a normal kind of hate, but an obsessive kind. He said that they made it a sort of hobby out of hating Dan. Jeff ended up saying that if they were going to investigate anybody in the family, that they needed to look at Charlie and Donna. Then during another police interview with Wendy, she also mentioned the fact that Donna and Charlie didn't like Dan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Obviously, she didn't think that they hated him enough to kill him, but Wendy mentioned that Charlie once joked about hiring a hitman to kill Dan. But she said that Charlie is always making jokes like that in bad taste. We all know that's always just saying off-the-wall things just to sort of get a rise out of people. So that's sort of what she thought about Charlie saying that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
After joking about hiring a hitman, he said that it would be too expensive so it would just be cheaper to get her a TV as a divorce gift rather than hiring a hitman. But again, Wendy did not think that he would actually have Dan murdered because that's such a huge thing that people don't normally think to do.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So of course, police continued digging and looking around to see if there was any connections between Charlie and Donna and the murder of Dan Markell. So as the investigation continued, they obviously had the two men who they were confident had something to do with the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Their cell phone pings and GPS locations gave away the fact that they had been visiting the area on the day and time of the murder. which was not a coincidence since they drove all the way there from Miami. But at that point in the investigation, they hadn't looked into who these men had been communicating with at the time. So the next step was to look into their cell phone communications.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Police found that Sigfredo Garcia had been in frequent contact with a woman named Catherine McBonwa. Catherine and Sigfredo had two children together and they did live together and they had dated previously, obviously, but the pair was no longer together. So they were living together, but no longer in a relationship. However, at that time, Catherine was in another relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She was dating Charlie Adelson, Wendy's brother. So, they looked at all the communications from Catherine's phone all throughout the month of July. It showed that on July 1st, she and Charlie's phones were pinging from Charlie's residence, most likely meaning that they were together there at the time. Starting at 11 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
that same day, her cell phone showed that she tried contacting her ex, Sigfredo, as many as 48 times. Finally, by 5 p.m., she was able to contact him, and they spoke on the phone for six minutes. Then they found that nine minutes after the phone call between Catherine and Sigfredo ended, Sigfredo called Harvey Adelson, Charlie and Wendy's father, and Donna's husband.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
But this call went to voicemail. For the two hours that followed that day, Catherine contacted Sigfredo over 30 additional times. Catherine then called Harvey again with the first call going to voicemail until he finally answered at 7.44 p.m. They spoke for about four and a half minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He was out there and had no problem letting those around him know exactly what he thought or how he felt about any given topic. He was committed to excellence, expecting only the best from himself and his coworkers, colleagues, and his students. He expected the best from everybody around him. By the time Dan was 33 years old, by February 26th, 2006, he was married to 26-year-old Wendy Adelson.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
By later that evening, it appeared that Catherine and Charlie were no longer in the same vicinity together because they had spoken on the phone for a few minutes. Right after that call between those two, Katherine went back and forth between contacting Sigfredo and Charlie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
After speaking with Katherine multiple times, Charlie then called Harvey, his father, at 9.58pm, but this call did go to voicemail. Throughout the rest of the night, once again, Katherine continued to contact Charlie and Sigfredo back and forth. Finally, by 12.43 a.m. on July 2nd, Charlie got into contact with his father, Harvey, and they spoke for about 12 minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, let's talk about the cell phone data from the day of the actual murder, July 18th, 2014. between 12 and 12.23 a.m. that day. It appeared that both Sigfredo and Luis Rivera had been at a roadway inn in Tallahassee, Florida. Again, that matches with what we know from the witness who placed both of them at a Tallahassee motel. Their location at the hotel was confirmed by cell phone pings.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
During that time, Catherine contacted Sigfredo and then contacted Charlie. By 1230 AM, the GPS shows that the priest heads towards the area of Dan's house. By 1234 AM, Catherine contacts Charlie, and right after that, Charlie contacts his mother, Donna. After speaking with Donna, Charlie calls Catherine again. By 8.09am, Donna contacts Wendy and spoke with her briefly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It's a case where we have most of the answers but not all of them. And there are still so many things that are left out in the open that I'm sure everybody will have their opinions on. And this is still a very much ongoing case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
As we know, from around 8.30am until 11am, Dan is dropping off the kids, going to the gym, and then returned home. At 8.09am that morning, Dan spoke with Wendy briefly, most likely about the kids. As we know, that morning, the Prius is seen following Dan as he does his errands. By 9.12am- Charlie contacts Wendy briefly. By 9.19 a.m., Wendy called Charlie back and they spoke for almost 20 minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
As Sigfredo and Luis are known to be sitting in the parking lot of the Premier Fitness where Dan is working out, at 9.38 a.m., Charlie contacted Donna briefly. By 9.58 a.m., Charlie then contacted Catherine and the two spoke for six minutes. Between 10.07 and 10.09 a.m., Charlie and Catherine call each other back and forth three times, speaking for only a few seconds each time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then, as we know, by 11.02 a.m., a neighbor heard a gunshot and reported seeing Dan in his car looking like he had been hurt. By 11.06 AM, Donna contacted Charlie. We don't know at that time if it was a call or text. By 11.22 AM, Charlie contacted Donna and they spoke for seven minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then at 11.30 and 11.31, Charlie contacted Catherine and they spoke for a total of five and a half minutes between those two calls. Then the day after that, as I mentioned, Wendy was taken into the police station for an interview with investigators.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
During that interrogation, Wendy called Donna to inform her of what happened to Dan and actually asked her to call Charlie and tell him because she didn't want to break the news to him. According to cell phone records, Donna did call Charlie, which went to voicemail, but then Charlie called back shortly after. The two spoke for a total of 12 minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
And right after hanging up with his mother, Charlie called Catherine and they spoke for almost three minutes. Cell phone records indicate that Charlie was not in contact with anybody else after hearing the news of Dan's death. So, after seeing all of the cell phone communication, we see that there seems to be an obvious connection between Donna, Charlie, Catherine, and Sigfredo.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It can't be a coincidence that almost every time after Charlie and Catherine spoke, she called Sigfredo. That could have been chalked up to a coincidence if it only happened on July 1st, but the fact that this happened literally as Dan was being shot by Sigfredo and Louise, and then after they were being questioned about it, that is not a coincidence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Wendy was a third-year law student at the University of Miami at the time. And then after graduating, Dan helped Wendy land a job as a professor at FSU College of Law alongside him. By 2007, the two bought their home in Tallahassee, Florida, and then soon after, the couple would go on to have two sons, Ben and Lincoln.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So the theory was that Charlie and Donna wanted Dan gone. So Charlie spoke with his girlfriend, Catherine, who happened to know a leader of a Latin Kings gang who set up a murder-for-hire plot using Luis and Sigfredo to carry it out. Charlie, Donna, and the rest of the family had all of the money to put this kind of thing in action, so they just had to find the people willing to do it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
But police needed more proof. So after this, the next thing police did was look into the financial records of Catherine Magbanwa. They found that before Dan's death, Catherine was employed at a Miami area dental office. But after the murder, Katherine started receiving checks from Adelston Institute for Aesthetics and Implant Dentistry.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The check started in September of 2014, a few months after the murder, and were always for the amount of $407.58 and each check was signed by Donna. These checks came in every 10 days and continued until January of 2016.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It also showed that in the 12 months leading to the murder, Katherine started making more and more cash deposits, totaling about $15,000, with 10,000 of that being deposited within the prior four months. In the year after Dan's murder, she deposited a total of $44,000 into her bank account. Most of these deposits were made at ATMs and were in increments of $300,000 to $2,000.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
However, police performed surveillance of Catherine to find out what her day-to-day movements were like. It turned out, once again, that Catherine did still live with Sigfredo in a townhouse with their two young children. She would go to work at a dermatology office in Fort Lauderdale during normal business hours during the day and would return home as normal in the evening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Nothing was off about that. However, at no point was she visiting the Adelson dental office. She did not seem to actually work for them. So why was she so frequently receiving checks from them? They also found out that Catherine was driving a 2001 Lexus that was registered to Harvey, Charlie's father, and which was used by Charlie before she got it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She started using the Lexus back in September of 2015. Records show that this car was sold to her for about $1,700, but her bank accounts did not reflect a withdrawal or payment for this amount. So the thought here is that the Adelson family gave her this car and just did the paperwork to make it look like she owned it and she purchased it, but her bank records did not reflect that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
To add to that, police report that according to her Facebook photos, Katherine got a very obvious breast enhancement surgery, which the reason for mentioning that is that this surgery costs a lot of money, over $15,000 in most cases. Looking at all of her income from employment to federal tax returns and anything else on the books, there is no reason why she should be spending that much money
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
and no indication for where that money is even coming from. The thought here is that Donna and Charlie are paying Catherine money and taking care of her after she set the murder for hire plot in motion. But again, just based on her behaviors and bank records, there was no way to actually prove this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
According to those who knew Dan, he was one of the most dedicated fathers you could know. He loved his children and was devoted to his family. However, soon after the children arrived, Wendy reported that things just went very downhill. For Wendy, Dan was an intelligent man with a big heart who loved her and the kids, but he was the safe option for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, as a part of their investigation, in April of 2016, police were able to intercept multiple interactions and phone calls between the people believed to be involved.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, what happened was that an undercover officer approached Donna, basically giving her an article about the murder, saying that he had information about a problem that they had up north, referring to the murder because, again, they lived in South Florida and Dan was murdered in North Florida.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He said that his friend Tato, which was a nickname for Luis, was not being taken care of after what he did for them. He said that Tato told him everything and if they didn't pay $5,000, they were going to do something with the information that they had about them. Because again, this guy was claiming that Tato told them everything and that they were going to expose them for what they did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So during that interaction with the undercover agent, they were able to wiretap the family. After this contact with the undercover agent, officers heard Donna call Charlie, kind of freaking out that somebody had information about them and was asking for money. In their phone calls, they were clearly talking cryptically, saying that they can't discuss the issue over the phone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
After Donna contacted Charlie and told him what was going on, Charlie contacted Catherine to explain the situation to her. He explained that this person, the undercover agent, again, unbeknownst to them, mentioned something about an ex-girlfriend being involved and Charlie wondered if he was referring to Catherine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
After that, Charlie met up with his mother and the two spoke in person, but unfortunately, none of that conversation was heard. After speaking with Donna, Charlie then met up with Catherine and part of this conversation was recorded. Now, it took a while for this audio to be cleared up, but investigators did eventually figure out what was being said.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Catherine is heard asking Charlie what kind of information the man who approached Donna knows. Does he know the murder weapon? Can he describe the suspect? What else does he know about the murder? Charlie then explained that they needed to do whatever they can to stop those people from contacting police if they do know anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He said that maybe he will just pay them off, but they need to make sure that these people do not contact police. Then Charlie said to Katherine that maybe they needed to make a one-time charity payment to the blackmailer, and if not, they would kill him. Apparently, he said, quote, And so help me God, if they F with my family, it's gonna be like F-ing that Nazi shit because this will be done.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
You know what I'm saying? I mean, Katie, I don't care what I spend, okay? I swear to God, Katie. Katie, this person doesn't know. Clearly, as we can see from this conversation, it seems like Charlie is freaking out that somebody knows something damning about them enough for them to want to pay them off. After this meeting, Charlie sets up a time to get dinner with his father, Harvey.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Meanwhile, Catherine and Sigfredo talk multiple times and have multiple arguments. She gave Sigfredo the number that the undercover agent gave Donna and asked him to look into it. She does so with trying to disguise how she's saying it rather than giving a actual full phone number. She makes it seem like she's discussing the cost for something related to the kids schooling.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So the last four digits were like $68.59. So she was like, oh, it costs $68.59. Don't quote me on that, I don't know if those are the exact numbers, but that's kind of how she described it over the phone. Again, talking all cryptically over the phone because they know that this could either be an undercover agent or it could really be a blackmailer who they need to pay off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
As this is happening on April 26th, Charlie is again speaking with Donna, telling her to stop worrying that things are okay and that he is taking care of things. Donna said that she felt better after the conversation. A few days later, on May 4th, the undercover agent texts Donna again, which made her worried again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, the following day, her, Charlie, and Harvey all met up and spoke, but their conversation, unfortunately, was not captured. After this conversation, Charlie called Katherine and asked her how this person could have gotten Donna's phone number. They think that maybe the person found it online.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She never felt a passionate love for him and always felt that he didn't see Wendy as his equal. She said that he tried to show her love in any way he knew how, but after the kids arrived, she realized that he was not the person for her. She felt lonely in her marriage with Dan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
By that same day, Donna and Charlie decided that they were going to pay this person $5,000 to keep them quiet, but they agreed that they needed to be firm enough to let this man know that this was a one-time deal and he was not getting paid again. After that, Donna called the undercover agent saying that she actually knows nothing about the murder of her ex-son-in-law.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The agent pushes her a little bit saying that she knows Catherine and she knows what she did. But again, she denied knowing anything. Then she called Charlie and told him what happened. After that, by April 28th, Charlie actually called the number that his mother gave him. The two spoke again about his problem up north, saying that Tato was not being taken care of.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He demanded payment for Tato for his role and what he did for them. Once again, at first, Charlie denied knowing anything or anyone that he was talking about. But eventually, he said, okay, he was going to figure something out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, by September of 2012, Dan went away on a business trip only to come home to find that his wife of six years had packed up their belongings, took their two toddler-aged boys, and left the home. She had filed for divorce on September 10, 2012, stating that she had been unhappy for quite some time. According to other divorce filings, Dan said that Wendy took everything when she left.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
After that, by May 24th, that is when police finally contacted Sigfredo while he was at work. At the same time, police also tried contacting Catherine, but she would not come out of her house or answer the door. Catherine then called Sigfredo's work to let him know what happened, but Sigfredo's manager answered and told her that Sigfredo was speaking with the feds.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I believe it was at that time that Sigfredo was arrested and police were staking out Catherine, but she wouldn't come out. By the following day, police finally got a warrant and arrested Sigfredo. About a week later, on June 2nd, Luis Rivera was also arrested. Both were charged with first-degree murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, by October of 2016, Luis actually worked with prosecutors to accept a plea deal for his charges. He pleaded guilty to second degree murder in exchange for providing the prosecution with more evidence to get Catherine arrested. At that time, Luis had been charged with an unrelated crime and he was sentenced to 12 years for it. So at that time, he was already in prison.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So in exchange for his guilty plea, he was actually given a 19-year sentence to run concurrently with his 12-year sentence. So he will only be facing an additional seven years in prison for his part in the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Based on the evidence that they were able to obtain, as well as information given to the police by Louise, police finally arrested Catherine McBonwa and charged her with first-degree murder, on October 1st, 2016. By September 25th, 2019, after delay after delay, five years after Dan Markell's murder, the trial for murder began and Katherine and Sigfredo were being tried together.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They were facing charges of first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation of murder. In their opening statements, the prosecution said that they believed Dan Markell was a problem for Wendy Adelson. They had a very tumultuous divorce. They fought about everything, and it was obvious that her family hated him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She wanted him out of the way, so her family had him killed as a desperate desire of the Adelson family to be able to move to South Florida with the boys. They argued that Wendy Adelson hired Catherine, Luis, and Sigfredo to carry out a murder for hire plot to get Dan out of the picture.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They believed that obviously the connection to Catherine was made through Charlie because he was the one dating her. But they believed that Charlie and Donna both took part in paying Catherine out to have this murder organized. They think that Catherine is basically the one who got the two men to do it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
All three worked together to murder their respected lawyer, and it seems that based on when these payments started, they had been planning this for about a year, or at least for about four months, because that's when the payments really picked up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The defense, on the other hand, they said that the prosecution is just desperate to get somebody behind bars for this, and that is why they are trying Catherine. They said that there is no direct evidence linking Catherine to the crime. They said that the people who are directly related to the murder of Dan, the Adelson family, none of them are being charged. Why? Because they don't have a case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The defense also pointed out how the prosecution was heavily relying on testimony from a man who they gave a plea deal to. A man who is a notorious gang leader, who is a convicted murderer, whose words can't be trusted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She took his family's jewelry and his tennis racket and removed thousands of dollars in cash and equities from their bank and investment accounts. She also packed up pretty much everything in the home, including the son's clothes, their toiletries, their beds, and all of the furniture in the home, leaving only a crib as well as Dan and Wendy's mattress lying on the floor in their bedroom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Meanwhile, the prosecution said that giving him a plea deal was a necessary evil that had to be done in order to connect all of the dots in this case and get every person responsible behind bars for their part in this. So, the prosecution talked about all of the evidence that I discussed with you up to this point. How bitter the divorce between Dan and Wendy was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The cell phone evidence that connected Catherine, Luis, Sigfredo, and Charlie. How Charlie was also in contact with his mother and father while all of this was happening. Like I said, Luis Rivera took a plea to testify against Catherine and Sigfredo at the trial. He said that him and Sigfredo made two trips up to Tallahassee. The first time they saw him, they didn't do anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It wasn't until their second trip that he was killed. Now, Luis said that the two rented a car and started heading up north. He said that he went with Sigfredo thinking that they were just going to rob Dan. But he said that halfway through the drive, Sigfredo told Luis that they had to kill this man for some kids. When they got up there, he said that they followed Dan home from the gym.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
And as soon as they pulled up behind him at his house, Sigfredo got out of the car and immediately shot Dan two times in broad daylight. After that, he stated that they were both paid by Catherine for the murder, with his share being $37,000. He said that he never had any direct contact with the Adelson family, only with Catherine, who was acting as the middleman.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, Wendy was actually given immunity in exchange for her testimony at trial, which really annoys me because I do think that she knows a lot more than she says, but either way, according to investigators, it didn't seem to them like she had any involvement or at least any involvement that they could prove.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, in her testimony, she said that she had asked for a divorce long before she actually left Dan. She described how Dan told her that if she divorced him, all she would have is the clothes on her back. So, that is why she left in the way she did. She talked about how she knew Charlie and Donna hated Dan,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
admitting that Donna asked Wendy to offer Dan a million dollars to let the kids move down south. She said that she never actually made that offer to Dan, but it shows that Donna was willing to pay a million dollars to get this problem taken care of. She testified how her brother did joke about hiring a hitman, but she never thought that he was serious.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He was always joking about things like that, but she never took him seriously. She did not think and does not think that Charlie is capable of killing Dan. She was asked if she knew who killed Dan and she said no. She said that after Dan died though, she was scared for her life. She had no idea what was going on. She thought that someone might be after her or her children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She said she was sick and in shock after the death and she said that she had nothing to do with it and it deeply, deeply affected her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
And on that bed, she displayed the papers filing for divorce. She didn't leave an address or any way to contact her. According to Dan, this was just the most brutal way that somebody could have done this. And according to Wendy herself, there was nothing all that extreme that happened in their marriage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So I'm really excited to hear what you all have to say about this case after hearing the details and to honestly see where this case ends up within the next few weeks and months. With that being said, there is a lot to go over. So let's just jump into today's case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
There was a few things that we will get into later, but she overall just didn't feel loved and she wanted out. But her actions of taking everything from him definitely seemed like a huge slap in the face for pretty much no reason. Again, it's not like he did anything extreme. He didn't cheat on her. He didn't abuse her or treat her very badly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
because I'm not guilty. However, her now ex-boyfriend Jeff, who I mentioned earlier, he also testified. He said that he found Wendy's behaviors in the days leading up to the murder to be very weird. He said that their relationship was pretty strained in the weeks leading to the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
But just a few days before the murder, Wendy confided in Jeff that Charlie had looked into buying a hitman to kill Dan. Jeff said that he knows that Wendy has made other comments like this before but this time it didn't feel like a joke. He said it felt serious and very concerning and that his stomach flipped when he heard that. He called Wendy a superficially charming and deeply deceitful person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He said that the week before the murder until the 18th he was going on a business trip so he would be getting back or leaving the day that Dan had been killed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He said that him and Wendy hadn't talked regularly in the weeks before, but just before the murder happened, but just before the murder, suddenly Wendy was asking him questions about his business trip, how long he would be gone, and things like that. He thought that it was weird that she was asking these questions since they hadn't talked much other than that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then he said that he was very surprised when Wendy named him as a potential suspect during their police interview. He said that he thought that Wendy must have forgotten that he was on a business trip that day, but he said the fact that she asked him multiple times when he would be back from his business trip just before the murder...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
To me, it kind of makes it seem like maybe she was planning on pinning this entire thing on him all along, not realizing that he was out of town and that he wasn't even around at the time. Then the prosecution talked about the spike in Catherine Luisa's and Sigfredo's bank accounts in the weeks after the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
In total, $100,000 was paid out by the Adelson family, each of them receiving their cuts. They spoke about the wiretapped conversations they heard and said that it was obvious that they were all talking about trying to cover up a murder. Catherine did end up taking the stand herself. She said that her and Charlie were not in a serious relationship. It was a very casual relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She said that the day after the murder, Charlie called her and told her that his ex-brother-in-law had been in an accident, but he did not tell her any other details. She said that she does believe that Charlie had something to do with Dan's death, but she denies having any involvement herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She just said that he was not the person for her and that they had a loveless marriage. So to me, this just feels like a very big slap in the face for someone who didn't really do anything to deserve it. After this, the couple went through a very bitter divorce process and a tumultuous custody battle for their two sons.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
At the end of this trial, which took about two weeks, the defense and prosecution both made their closing arguments. And after that, the jury of 12 was sent for their deliberations. After 11 hours of deliberation, the jury came back with their decisions. They found that Sigfredo was guilty of first degree murder. However, they were deadlocked when it came to Catherine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
At first, Wendy continuously gave Dan false information about where she took the children. But eventually, Dan did discover that Wendy moved to her parents' house in Coral Springs, Florida, which was way down south in Florida. just over a seven hours drive away from their home in Tallahassee.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Ten jurors felt that she was guilty, while two felt that the state did not prove her involvement beyond a reasonable doubt. So for the time being, Catherine was not convicted. As for Sigfredo, for his first degree murder charge, the prosecution was seeking the death penalty. But after consideration, Sigfredo did receive a sentence of life in prison behind bars without the possibility of parole.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
After the first trial for Catherine ended in a mistrial, she went to trial for a second time in May of 2022. Once again, the same arguments were made for the prosecution and defense. They said that she was the one who hired Luis and Sigfredo to commit the murder because she got paid by the Adelson family, and so did Luis and Sigfredo. Once again, Luis was the star witness at the trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He described what I mentioned earlier about how he followed them home. He described what I mentioned earlier about how they followed Dan home and then shot him in his garage while he was still in his car. He said that after that, he got $37,000, Sigfredo got $40,000, and Catherine got the rest of that $100,000 payout.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The defense said that the prosecution was just cherry picking evidence, leaving out evidence that could point to Catherine's innocence. Again, they said that Luis is a liar, that he was originally facing the death penalty. And now that he got his deal, he will say whatever he can to keep his sentence of only seven additional years for a brutal murder. They said that Luis cannot be trusted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
At this time, Wendy filed a motion with the courts to be able to relocate to South Florida with her children. She said that being in Coral Springs gave her the family support that she needed. She also said that she was offered a position at a South Florida law firm that offered more money and more opportunity for advancement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Katherine also testified at this trial, continuing to deny having anything to do with the murder, saying that the relationship she had with Charlie was nowhere near serious enough for her to be willing to do something like this for him. But again, she's leaving out the fact that she was paid very handsomely and was well taken care of by the Adelson family after coordinating this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The prosecution in this trial said that Charlie was actually the one that masterminded the entire thing. They said that Donna was also involved, which is proven by their constant communication around the time of the murder and after. The two spoke about the murder in code, which was picked up by that wiretapping that I mentioned earlier.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They also talked about how after Dan's murder, the Adelson family quickly took Ben and Lincoln to South Florida and immediately changed their names from Markel to Adelson. Just like that, after Dan died, the Adelson family got exactly what they wanted. They took those boys, they wouldn't allow Dan's parents to see them, and virtually erased Dan from their lives altogether.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So Dan's death benefited them greatly and gave them exactly what they wanted. So how can that just be a coincidence? At the end of this second trial, the jury went in for their deliberations. And this time, the jury did come back with a solid decision. They found that now 38-year-old Catherine McBonwa was guilty of the first-degree murder of Dan Markell.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They said that while she did not pull the trigger, she played a pivotal part as the middleman to lead the shooters to Dan. Without her, the murder would not have taken place.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She was found guilty for charges of first degree murder, solicitation to commit murder, and conspiracy to commit murder. For this, she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She said that she wanted majority custody of the boys, saying that Dan travels too much and never spent much time caring for the boys. but that request to relocate was denied, so Wendy was to stay within the same county as Dan so that he was able to see his own children. Wendy would go on to say that Dan was saying negative things about her to their colleagues at FSU,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
have been found guilty by a jury of that count you are adjudicated guilty and you will be sentenced to a consecutive sentence of 30 years in the department of corrections now like i mentioned earlier this entire time the prosecution alleged that the adelson family specifically donna and charlie were the ones who orchestrated this entire murder for hire plot for the longest time none of them were ever charged with anything related to the murder
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
However, finally by April 21st, 2022, Charlie Adelson was arrested and charged with first degree murder, solicitation and conspiracy. They reported that they found new evidence that gave them enough for an indictment. So remember that footage that I mentioned earlier where Charlie was being blackmailed by this undercover agent.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The agent said that they needed to pay up $5,000 or else they might do something with the information that Toto was giving him. Well, that conversation between Charlie and Catherine at the restaurant was nowhere near clear when they first got it. It took them years, apparently, to clear it up and enhance it enough to hear what they were talking about.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
And shortly before he was arrested, that is when they heard him talking about threatening to kill the blackmailer if he didn't walk away after the payment. Again, their theory is that Charlie and Donna both took part in the plot to hire Catherine and pay her, Sigfredo, and Louise to murder Dan to allow the family to have the kids and take them with them down south.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So, as of right now, Charlie has not yet been convicted of anything and Donna has yet to be charged with anything. In fact, Charlie's trial is just now starting. What we do know so far is that Catherine will actually be testifying against him at trial. So clearly, this whole idea of her having nothing to do with it, that might be thrown out the window.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I am very curious to see what she is going to say now that she has already been convicted. But as of right now, that is where the case sits. I do think I will do an update video with the information we find out from Charlie's trial and what comes of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
As of right now, as of the day I'm recording, the jury selection is still underway and we do have the witness list, so that is how we know about Catherine testifying. But other than that, we will have to wait and see what happens with Charlie's trial. I personally do think that Wendy knew about this. I also think Harvey knew about this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I think the entire family either knew about it or took part in it or took part in the aftermath. I don't think that Charlie and Donna would have just done this behind her back knowing that Wendy would be really upset. I don't know, but I do feel like Wendy had to know.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They could have planned this without her knowledge so that there was no way she could have like said anything to the police to make sure that she never got arrested for this so that the children could stay with their mother. But I do feel like she knew or at least had an idea of what was going on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Again, especially given what Jeff said about her behaviors and the days and weeks before and after the murder. I think that both Harvey, their father, and Donna, their mother, both took part in this. I think they both knew about the entire thing and I think they both took part in paying all three people off after the murder. I do wonder eventually if they will be charged.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I hope they are because I do think that they took part in all of this and I think they know exactly what happened and I think they helped Charlie orchestrate this entire thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
She said that Dan told coworkers that Wendy had mental health issues and that she had stolen money from him. Dan also filed his own motions, one claiming that Wendy's filings are full of falsehoods. He said that Wendy was not being forthcoming about her financial assets, claiming that she underreported her assets by more than $240,000.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
The fact that Charlie was just now charged and is just now going to trial gives me hope that even years and years and years after, actually almost 10 years after the murder, that they are still investigating and still doing things to bring justice to Dan and his family. But with that, that is where I am going to end today's video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Again, as soon as I know more information about any new information that comes out about this case and the trial of Charlie, I will be coming out with an update video within the next few weeks or months. And if there is any new information about Donna or Harvey or anybody else involved in this, you guys will be the first to know.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
But that is where I'm going to end today's video and now I want to know your guys' thoughts. Do you think that the entire family had involvement? Do you think that Wendy knew about this? Do you think that Harvey and Donna both had something to do with it? Or do you think it was just Donna? Or do you think Charlie put all of this together?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Let me know any thoughts that you have in the comments below. If you like this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Don't forget to turn that notification bell to on and make sure you follow my Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. All are going to be linked down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
you
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He also said that she had this old two-carat diamond ring that belonged to his late grandmother, who was a Holocaust survivor, but Wendy had stolen it. He reported that Wendy's rich, affluent parents are helping her with all of the litigations, going on to say that Wendy, quote, helped herself to over $600,000 in cash, liquid equities, and other assets upon separation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Daniel Eric Markell, who went by Dan or Danny, was born in Montreal, Quebec, Canada on October 9th, 1972 to parents Ruth and Paul Markell. He then moved to the U.S. and went to college at Harvard University for his bachelor's degree. He then studied at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel for a fellowship, earning his master's degree in philosophy and politics from Cambridge.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Now, I do want to note that the Adelston family had a dental practice that Wendy's brother Charlie had been running at the time. They also owned several investment properties and Charlie drove a Ferrari. So the family clearly had a lot of money.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
I will go more into the family in just a little bit, but that's sort of a pretext into how much money this family had and why Dan was so upset that Wendy took everything that they had. Then he filed another motion against Wendy's mother, Donna Adelson. In this motion, Dan reported that Donna had been making negative comments about him to his children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He said that Donna would tell their boys that he hated them, that he was stupid, and that he was taking them away from Donna. They would basically come back after visits with her and be like, hey dad, grandma said that you're stupid, or hey dad, grandma said that you're taking us away from her, and things like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Because of this, he requested that Donna not be allowed unsupervised visitation with the boys. The issue was scheduled to be heard in court, but it was delayed time and time again and never ended up happening. And I will tell you why in just a little bit. For the months that followed, the couple went back and forth in court battle after court battle.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They argued everything from finances, family heirlooms, whether they could sign the boys up for soccer, what the boys could eat, how often Dan would get to see them, and where they would go to kindergarten. By July 31, 2013, the divorce was ultimately finalized by a marital settlement agreement without involvement in a court.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
By that time, their agreement was that they shared 50-50 custody of the children and shared parenting guidelines. Dan was also ordered to pay Wendy $841 per month as well as a lump sum of $120,000 since he did get to keep the house. Their investment accounts and other properties were split between the two. However, this agreement did not satisfy Wendy or her family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It turned out that neither Wendy's mother, Donna, nor her brother, Charlie, ever liked Dan. The Adelson family wanted Wendy and the boys to move to Coral Springs no matter what it took. According to emails that were later uncovered, Donna suggested that Wendy offer Dan $1 million to allow the boys to relocate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
They said that Wendy, Charlie, and Donna would all contribute a third to make up the full amount. But Wendy did not offer this to Dan. She didn't think that it was appropriate. Then Donna told Wendy that maybe instead of bribing him, she should threaten Dan that if they didn't move, the boys would be converted to Catholicism. Now, both Dan and Wendy's families were very strict Jewish families.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
So obviously, this would have been a lie, but they knew that Dan would be very upset with this. And they thought that maybe this threat would make Dan more convinced to allow Wendy to take the kids to Coral Springs. Because again... If he didn't allow that, they would be Catholics now instead of being Jewish.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
No idea how they thought this was going to work, but once again, Wendy did not end up making this threat. But this does just go to show how desperate Donna was to get those boys down by her and away from their father. Either way, by July of 2014, Dan was scheduled to spend the week with his boys per the 50-50 agreement made with his ex-wife.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
On the morning of July 18, 2014, Dan drove his two sons to their daycare center about five miles away from his home, dropping them off by 8.50 a.m. After that, Dan went to Premier Health and Fitness Center, starting his workout by around 9.17 a.m., before leaving at 10.38 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
A few minutes later, while driving, at 10.48 a.m., Dan made a phone call, I believe, to a friend, initially to talk about something related to the kids' school. But as he was talking and approaching his home, Dan told the friend that there was a car in his driveway that he didn't recognize.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He then went to Harvard Law School where he earned his Juris Doctorate to practice law. From there he practiced law for a short time as a junior associate at a law firm in Washington DC where he practiced white collar criminal defense. After that he moved to Florida and joined the faculty at Florida State University in 2005 and became a law professor teaching a clinical law class.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
Then the friend heard what sounded like a loud grunt on the phone and then the sound of a muffled conversation in the background as well as what sounded like loud breathing. But Dan was no longer responding. Then the call ended. The friend tried calling Dan back, but he got no answer. Then by 11am, he tried texting Dan to see if he was okay, but once again, he got no answer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
It turned out that Dan wasn't okay. He had been shot in his garage. By 11.02am, a neighbor of Dan's called 911 to report that he heard a gunshot, and so he looked outside to see what was going on, and he saw that his neighbor's driver's side car window had been smashed in, and the man inside looked like he had been hurt because there was blood all over his head.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
TOXIC: Affluent Family Masterminds the Murder of a Respected Lawyer?! THE ADELSON FAM & DAN MARKEL
He said that the car was still running in the driveway with the key in the ignition, and Dan did seem to still be alive because he was moving around in the car, but he wasn't responding to his calls to get his attention.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
lying on the floor of a cell, mumbling to himself with his eyes closed. He refused to talk to him or answer any of his questions. Apparently, he said to his lawyer that he's going to explode, that he can't take it anymore, that he doesn't want to hurt him or anybody else. So, obviously, this can point to him having a severe mental illness that caused
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Some sort of extreme emotional reaction to very difficult things. But a lot of people who commit these heinous crimes have mental illness. And a murder trial is very stressful and it's understandable why someone may have a mental breakdown when they're facing jail and prison for the rest of their life. So they did do a psyche eval, but he was found competent to stand trial, so they continued on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So then members of the family took the stand to testify about the family's long-standing history of mental illness. Philip's grandfather Eduardo described how his late ex-wife had many bouts of mental illness, which led her to having shock therapy in the 1970s.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Now, for a while while the two were married, Eduardo would work night shifts at a restaurant while his wife Joyce would stay at home and take care of the children. He described one incident where he was working his night shift and he came home one random night and found that the kids hadn't been fed and hadn't been taken care of.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie wurde wirklich von allen geliebt, mit denen sie arbeitete, insbesondere von ihren Studenten. Jetzt, am 22. Oktober 2013, begann ein ziemlich normaler Tag für 24-jährige Colleen. Jedoch gab es einen Studierenden in ihrer 8. Mathematik-Klasse, den sie bemerkte, dass sie einen sehr schwierigen Zeitraum hatte. Dieser Studierende war 14-jähriger Philipp Chisholm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He said that he started to slice an orange and make dinner when Joyce, so Phillip's grandmother, After this incident, this is when she started undergoing shock therapy sessions. So, he described that Joyce had been completely normal for basically her entire life until this random moment where she just randomly had a mental breakdown and did something very dramatic by just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
getting up and leaving the family. He then talked about how one of his daughters, so one of Phillip's aunts, also suffered from mental illness. He said that she slowly started to show some of the same symptoms as Joyce and saying that she just couldn't handle anything anymore.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Now, he did concede that none of these other family members who suffered from mental illness had ever done anything violent. But this does show that the family has a long-standing history of being perfectly fine mentally and then going into these
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
random episodes of psychosis it runs in their family so that must be how it happened to philip then a lifelong friend of philips as well as the friend's mother took the stand to talk about philips behaviors growing up they said that philip had always been a very respectful and mild-mannered kid für alle, außer seine Mutter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie sagten, dass er oft sehr schuldig gegen seine Mutter gearbeitet hat und dass es so schlimm wurde, dass die Mutter dieses Freundes Philipp gesagt hat, dass er, wenn er seine Mutter nicht mehr respektiert hat, that he could no longer hang out with her son. But again, the mom did concede that she didn't notice any huge behavioral changes in the weeks leading up to the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So the friend of Philip testified that they would often go out skateboarding, they would go on family vacations together, and they hung out all of the time. But even then, he said that Philip had always been a bit of a shy kid who avoided eye contact and usually just kept to himself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Ein anderer Freund von Philipps, der mit ihm Fußball gespielt hat, sagte, dass es Zeiten gab, in denen Philipp aus seinem Schuh rausgekommen wäre, wenn er Tore gespielt hat, aber dann einfach zurück zu seinem leisen Selbst zurückgekehrt wäre, sich abrufen würde und dann einfach nicht mehr so viel mit Leuten sprechen wollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also, im Grunde genommen, was ich von dem erinnere, ist, dass Philipp immer ein guter, normaler Kind war, But he was just shy and he just kept to himself, which is completely normal. So the defense was trying to argue that Philip was normally this very outgoing and happy and cheerful kid.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But then in the weeks leading up to the murder, there was this shift in behavior, which caused him to act more withdrawn and shy and much unlike himself. Sie sprachen darüber, dass dieser aktuelle Versuch mit seiner Mutter das, was seinen psychotischen Ereignis gestärkt hat. Aber die Testimonien von seinen Freunden und Feiern zeigten das nicht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Von den Artikeln, die ich gesehen habe und von den Videos, die ich gesehen habe, sah es so aus, als ob seine Freunde und Feierinnen versucht hatten, ihn zu verteidigen. But it seemed like they were kind of going against what the defense wanted them to say.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Again, these friends were saying that Philip was happy, that he was a normal kid, but that he was kind of always shy and that he was always pretty withdrawn and that this wasn't anything new for him. So then a psychiatrist also said that he was given antipsychotic meds after his arrest.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Philipp Chisholm hatte ein bisschen eine schwierige Angehörigkeit und war gerade in Massachusetts aus Clarksville, Tennessee. Und Colleen bemerkte, dass er ein ziemlich trauriges Kind war. Seine Eltern hatten vor kurzem einen Divorz durch sein Vaters Unfidelity. Und er war also wirklich mit diesem Thema anstrengend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und er wurde so viel besser und zeigte sich sehr viel Entschuldigung für das, was er Colleens Familie durchgebracht hat. Philipp sagte, dass, wenn er die Geräusche nicht gehört hätte, ihm zu sagen, was er tun soll, er nichts davon machen würde. Das andere, was die Verteidigung versucht hat, war, die Anzeichen für Rape auszunehmen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Die erste Rape-Frage werde ich in einer Minute erzählen, aber die zweite Rape-Frage wurde gemacht, weil der Stick, der in Colleen eingeführt wurde, gefunden wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Was ich gerade zu sagen habe, ist sehr bedrohlich und ich mag es nicht so sehr, dass ihr es nicht hören werdet, aber die Verteidigung sagte, dass der Grund dafür, dass er nicht mit dieser anderen Rape verurteilt werden sollte, war, weil sie wahrscheinlich bereits tot war, als er das gemacht hat. Also wiederum, nicht zu argumentieren, dass er ihr sexuell nicht verurteilt hat,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie haben nur darüber geredet, dass sie bereits tot war, als er es tat. An dieser Zeit, unter der Massachusetts-Law, ist es nicht verurteilt, den Körper eines toten Menschen sexuell zu verurteilen, was für mich absolut unglaublich ist. Es ist völlig verrückt, dass das niemals eine Gesetzgebung war, dass es früher nicht eine Gesetzgebung war. wirklich furchtbar, ehrlich gesagt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also, der Forensikopathologe, der die Autopsie auf Colleens Körper verabschiedet hat, bestätigte, dass sie 16 Mal getötet und in den Mund gestoppt wurde. aber es konnte nicht beurteilt werden, von welchen von diesen sie tatsächlich gestorben ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Aber dann sagte sie, dass es sehr schwierig wäre, jemanden nach der Zerrungung zu beheben, und es gab einen bestimmten Stabwund, der sie dachte, dass das der letzte Schlag war, den wir in einer Minute noch mehr darüber reden werden. Also kam der Forensikopathologen zu der Schlussfolgerung, dass sie wahrscheinlich behebt und dann behebt wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Aber sowieso argumentieren sie, dass er, der die Branche in ihr steckt, ein separates Ereignis war von dem echten Mord, da es seit über 40 Minuten passiert ist, und dass sie vor allem vorher gestorben wäre und dass es keine anderen Beweise von Rape gab. So, he shouldn't be charged.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But then the prosecution argued that he was already raping Colleen in the bathroom before she was actually dead and that the branch was put there because he had actually been interrupted while raping her from this other student.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So, like I said earlier, as all of this was happening, another student walked into the bathroom, but she left right away because she just thought that she walked in on somebody changing. So, this student actually took the stand at trial to talk about what happened with this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So, the student said that at the time she had been wandering the halls of the school looking for cell service on her phone so that she could call her father to come pick her up. She said that she then opened the bathroom door to go inside when she saw somebody's bare butt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er hat sich viele Male in seiner Kindheit bewegt, und er hat sich wieder mit seiner Mutter aus Tennessee bewegt. Er lebt nun in einem Wohnzimmer in seinem Vaters Haus. Er hat also nicht so viel Stabilität in seinem Leben. Als er sich bewegt hat, hat er an der Schule mit dem Fußballteam zusammengearbeitet, weil er den Fußball absolut liebte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
She said that she saw this person leaning over the sink and that she couldn't hear anything and she couldn't see this person's upper half. So, she didn't even realize the gender of this person. Sie stürzte sich kaum in den Schlafzimmer und sobald sie das sah, ging sie einfach nach oben, weil sie einfach dachte, dass jemand etwas verändert hat und sie wollte ihnen Privatsache geben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie war sehr überrascht und überrascht, dass sie später herausfinden konnte, was wirklich passiert ist. Also, wie ich gesagt habe, der Student wusste wirklich nicht, was sie gerade beobachtet hat, aber weil sie reportiert hat, dass ein Bauch über den Sink gelehnt wurde, Das ist offensichtlich, dass das war, als er in der Mitte des Aktes war, dass er Colleen verabschiedet hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und offensichtlich wusste Philip wahrscheinlich, dass jemand auf sie reingeworfen hat und sich überrascht hat, und das war dann, als er stoppte. Also, das ist ein Teil dessen, was die Verwaltung beantragte, warum die Verabschiedung nicht gedroht werden sollte. Wir werden später mehr in Detail über das, was die Verwaltung gesagt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Aber die Verteidigung hat weiterhin gesagt, dass es unklar war, wann die Branche in sie eingeschüttet wurde und dass sie bereits tot war, als es geschehen ist, also sollten die Anzeichen gedroht werden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Das ist also das, was die Verteidigung besagte, dass er in einem Zustand von Psychose war und dann plötzlich zerstörte, als sie Tennessee aufbrach, und das ist es, was ihn dazu gebracht hat, einfach in Überdruck zu gehen, nicht zu wissen, was er gemacht hat, und dann sie zu töten. Dass das ganze Ding in einem Zustand von mentalen Krisen war und dass er nicht wusste, was er gemacht hat,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Therefore, he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions. The prosecution came back and said that Philip was not in fact in the midst of a mental break when this happened. They argued that this entire thing was completely planned out and that his motive was due to a desire for sexual relations with Colleen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
so first the prosecution argued that there was premeditation for this murder surveillance video from the school showed that he showed up to school already carrying a box cutter gloves a ski mask and a change of clothes then he placed all of these items in a separate backpack and then placed it into his locker then surveillance video shows him going into his locker and grabbing this second backpack
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
before going into math class that day. So clearly he went to school prepared with these items, put them in his locker and then went to class bringing these items knowing that he was going in there to hurt Colleen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Then of course they showed the jury all of the surveillance video which included him walking out of the classroom to check the halls and make sure that everything was clear and then following his teacher into the bathroom and then all of the steps to dispose of her body and conceal the crime.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So, all of this showed that not only did he come to school wanting to hurt Colleen, but he knew very well that what he was doing was wrong. The psychiatrist Robert Kinsherff conceded that he may have been emotionally and mentally disturbed. Aber seine Aktionen zeigten, dass er genau wusste, was er machte. Und er wusste, dass das, was er machte, falsch war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also, auch wenn er in den Wochen nach dem Mord in seiner mentalen Gesundheit abgelaufen war, auch wenn jeder in seiner Leben davon beurteilen kann, auch wenn jeder sagen kann, dass seine Verhältnisse in den Wochen nach dem Mord verändert wurden, das ändert nicht den Fakt, dass er diesen Mord geplant hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Aber trotzdem, die Leute, die ihn kennen, sagten, dass er ziemlich traurig war und dass er sich meistens auf sich selbst hielt. und dass er nicht wirklich viele Freunde hatte. Und Colleen bemerkte, dass er mit dem Material in ihrer Klasse kämpfte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He went to school prepared to do this murder, carried it out and then took the steps to conceal it. That shows that he knew very well that what he was doing was wrong. The prosecution also pointed to the condition of Colleens body after she had been dumped in the woods. She was placed in a very sexually demeaning way.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und sie sagten, dass er, die Branche in ihr hineinzuschieben, überkillt wurde, um zusätzliche Schadstoffe an eine Gefängnis, die sich nicht mehr selbst verteidigen könnte. Sie sagten, dass dies eine Bedrohung für seine Gefängnis bedeutete und um zu zeigen, dass er Macht über sie hat. Danach, nach dem Mord, hat er seine Kleidung verändert und sich gekleidet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Wenn er psychotisch und in diesem verrückten mentalen Zustand wäre, hätte er nicht die Vorstellung gehabt, sich aus seinen blutigen Kleidungen zu wechseln und seine Tracks zu schließen. Nach dem Verbrechen ging er zu einem Restaurant um zu essen und dann zum Filmtheater und kaufte ein paar Filmtickets. Währenddessen war er komplett normal und machte sicher, dass er nicht bemerkt wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Wenn er wirklich in einem psychotischen Episode war, hätte er nicht den Rest seines Tages gehen können, komplett normal und normal zu sein. Er hätte nicht so komponiert aussehen können und seine Aktionen komplett kontrollieren können und er hätte von anderen bemerkt werden können. Once he was questioned by police and other psychiatrists, he was fully able to communicate clearly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He was able to distinguish fantasy from reality and he was reserved and guarded during certain aspects of the interviews, taking note to cover up certain details. The prosecution argued that Philip malingered and exaggerated his symptoms to falsely appear more mentally ill than he was to purposely get diagnoses from doctors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
They pointed out that a year prior to the murder, he had taken an IQ test that showed that he was slightly above average intelligence. But then, All of a sudden, the IQ test that he took after the murder shows that he falls well below the first percentile for intelligence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
The psychiatrist argued that in absence of some sort of catastrophic injury to the brain, that this could not happen, this drop in IQ could not happen. unless Philip was purposely faking to skew the results. Another psychiatrist, Nancy Hebben, conducted a widely used personality test that showed that Philip was trying to fake mental illness.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
She said that this test was completely unbiased because it was scored by a computer and that the results of this test led the computer to finding the test invalid. So even if someone wanted to argue that all of these psychiatrists were very biased against Philip because they wanted to get a charge Sie wollten zeigen, dass er nicht krank war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie wollten darauf achten, dass er für sein Verbrechen bezahlt wurde. Selbst wenn man sagen wollte, dass ein Computer nicht lügen kann, ein Computer ist nicht gebiased und ein Computer kann keine Ergebnisse erzielen, ohne dass jemand es verweist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er war also in seiner letzten Zeit im Tag und Colleen hat ihn gefragt, nach der Schule zu bleiben, damit sie mit ihm sprechen konnte und ihm mit seinem Homework helfen konnte. Sie wollte jeden und jeden Studenten akzeptiert und willkommen fühlen. Sie sah also, dass er kämpfte und wollte mit ihm helfen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also gehen wir zurück zu der ganzen Idee der Verteidigung, um den Rape-Anruf wegzunehmen, weil sie offensichtlich bereits tot war, bevor ein Rape-Anruf stattfand. Die Verwaltung argumentierte wieder, dass er in der Tatsache war, Colleen in den Schlafzimmer zu rauchen, bevor der Student in den Schlafzimmer ging und ihn unterruftete.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
They said that they believe that Colleen did not receive the final stab wound that actually killed her when she was in the bathroom, but that this actually took place in the woods. They believe that while she was barely alive, that she was alive in the recycling bin as she was being dragged into the woods.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So first they pointed out to the lack of blood that was on Philip's shirt once he initially left the bathroom to go and get the recycling bin. Sie sagten auch, dass es nicht viel Blut im Recyclingzimmer drin war. Das einzige Blut, das an diesem Punkt, nachdem sie in den Waschzimmer getötet wurde, blutig war, war Philipps Klappe, die er anhatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Das zeigt also, dass Philipp sie getötet hat, sie in den Waschzimmer gestabelt hat aber dass die letzte Stabwunde, die sie tatsächlich getötet hat, noch nicht stattgefunden hat. Die letzte Stabwunde, die sie glauben, dass sie eigentlich Colleen getötet hat, war die, die ihr Gehirn genug zerstörte, um eine der Vertebrae zu knicken.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Das würde die perfüge Blutung, die sie nur einmal sah, als sie außerhalb des Recyclingzimmers war, verursachen. Das zeigt also, dass diese letzte Blutung wahrscheinlich nachdem sie bereits in den Wäldern war. Und das zeigt, dass sie lebendig war. They also pointed out that Philip was in the woods for over 25 minutes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
They said that after Philip emerged from the woods, it was at that point that he was actually covered in blood. They said that he took her into the woods to finish what he started and that he continued raping her and then finished off durch sexuell mit der Branche zu verurteilen und sie dann so zu verurteilen, wie er es gemacht hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie sagten also, dass sie völlig lebendig war, als sie in die Wälder genommen wurde und dass der letzte Schlag da draußen gemacht wurde. All das, um zu sagen, dass die Rape-Frage nicht gedroht werden sollte, weil sie noch lebendig war, als sie verabschiedet wurde und möglicherweise, als die Branche in sie eingeschüttet wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Ich denke, es ist dumm, dass sie in den ersten Moment diesen Argument machen mussten. Er hat sie verabschiedet. Sie wissen das. Und die Tatsache, dass sie versuchen, zu argumentieren, dass sie wahrscheinlich tot war, als das passiert ist, Er sollte nicht verurteilt werden mit Rape.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Das ist schrecklich, schrecklich, wie ich es vorhin gesagt habe, aber es ist etwas, was passiert ist und es ist etwas, das ich überlegen wollte, um sicherzustellen, dass wir alle Informationen in diesem Fall wissen. Aber entweder Art und Weise, nachdem er Colleen ermordet hat, wie wir auf der Überwachungsvideo gesehen haben, ging er über und begann einfach mit einem Klassenkollegen zu sprechen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Als sie mit ihm gesprochen haben, sprachen die beiden ursprünglich über etwas, das mit China zu tun hatte. Und alles sah perfekt gut aus. Aber dann brachte sie seinen berühmten Weg aus Tennessee. Ich weiß nicht genau, worüber sie gesprochen haben, aber ich glaube, sie brachte es, weil sie versucht hat, mit ihm zu verbinden und ihm zu fragen, wie sein Leben zu Hause war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und an diesem Punkt war er völlig normal. Anscheinend hatten sie eine völlig normale Konversation. Wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, hat er ihnen gesagt, nicht in die Schule zu gehen, aber anscheinend hatten sie auch Pläne für den Wochenende gemacht und hatten einfach eine völlig normale Konversation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also war es offensichtlich, dass er sowohl keine Enttäuschung und keine Emotionen hatte an diesem Punkt, als auch er wirklich versucht hat, das, was er gerade getan hat, zu öffnen. Oder beides. Das ist also fast das Gleiche, was beide Seiten im Trial für diesen Fall besprochen haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Zuerst hat die Verteidigung gesagt, dass er in der Mitte eines psychotischen Ausbruchs war und dass er keine Ahnung hatte, was er machte, während die Verwaltung sagte, dass das ganze Ding geplant war. und dass er an diesem Tag mit einem schrecklichen, schrecklichen Ziel zur Schule ging.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er hatte geplant, diese Tatsachen zu machen und sie auszuüben, weil er sexuelle Beziehungen mit seinem Lehrer wollte. Nach etwa vier Wochen von den beiden Seiten zu hören, sind 17 Anwesende am 15. Dezember 2015 ausgeliefert worden. They actually deliberated for over 10 hours over the course of two days before delivering their verdict.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
They found him guilty of first degree felony murder, armed robbery for stealing her credit card and underwear, and one count of aggravated rape. He was found not guilty of the second charge of aggravated rape of the tree branch because the jury did decide that she was dead at the time that her body was taken into the woods. As the verdict was read, Philip showed absolutely no emotion.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Now it's a little bit confusing because he did face the charges as an adult and he received a sentence of 15 to 25 years to life for the murder and then 40 years for the robbery and then 40 years for the rape, all of which are being served concurrently. It's confusing because he is up for parole in 15 to 25 years for the murder, but he faced 15
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
40 Jahre für die anderen Anzeigen, was mir keinen Sinn macht, aber dadurch wird er wahrscheinlich nicht mehr im Parol sein, bis er in seinen 50ern ist. Nun, wie gesagt, ist es ein bisschen verwirrend, denn obwohl er die Anzeigen als Alter beantragt hat, ist der Grund dafür, dass er 15-25 Jahre für den Mord verhaftet wird, weil
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Ich weiß es nicht, aber egal, nachdem sie Tennessee brachte, wurde Philip visuell verletzt und ungeheuer. Colleen hat es nicht sofort bemerkt, aber sobald sie es gemacht hat, hat sie versucht, das Thema so schnell wie möglich zu verändern, aber es hat nicht funktioniert. Er war bereits ziemlich überrascht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
The law in Massachusetts actually says that the court cannot sentence juveniles 17 or younger to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So I don't really quite understand that. I don't understand how he was able to be charged as an adult, but he couldn't be sentenced as an adult. I don't fully understand that. Maybe it's just...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er wurde für die anderen Anzeichen verhaftet und nicht für den Mord. Das könnte mir Sinn machen. Ich weiß es nicht wirklich, aber wenn ihr mehr darüber wisst, dann lasst es mich wissen, weil es mir ein bisschen nervig ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Natürlich ist er in der Gefängnis keine Veränderung für das, was Colleens Familie tragisch verloren hat, aber zumindest wissen sie, dass der Monster, der für diesen fischeren Mord verantwortlich ist, hinter den Bars ist. Und ich hoffe wirklich, dass er nie verurteilt wird. Nur weil er die Möglichkeit hat, verurteilt zu werden, bedeutet das nicht, dass er garantiert verurteilt wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also hoffe ich einfach, dass er den Rest seines Lebens im Gefängnis bleibt. Aber auch so, auch mit der Überzeugung, dass ihre Tochter Mörder war, waren ihre Eltern noch so viele unantwortliche Fragen übrig. Mit der größten Frage, wie konnte das in einer Schule passieren, ohne dass jemand es bemerkt hat? Und das ist eine wirklich gute Frage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Als ich all diese Überwachungsvideos gesehen habe, und du hattest vielleicht die gleichen Gedanken, wie du die Überwachungsvideos gesehen hast, aber ich dachte, es war verrückt, wie lange er einfach die Hallen der Schule nach der Schule aufgehängt hat, ohne dass jemand etwas gesagt hat. Ich war in der Hochschule um die gleiche Zeit, als das passiert ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und ich erinnere mich, als ich in der Hochschule war, wenn ich alleine aufgehängt habe, vor allem in den Nachwuchszeiten, wurde ich von so vielen Mitarbeiterinnen und Mitarbeitern verabschiedet, die mich gefragt haben, was ich tue. Selbst wenn ich in den Nachwuchssport involviert war, würde ich in den Nachwuchszeiten zu lange in den Hallen stehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also, ihn zu sehen, dass mehrere Leute in den Hallen laufen, vor allem mit einem Recyclingkasten, ohne dass jemand etwas sagt, Das ist wirklich seltsam für mich. Daher haben Colleens Eltern eine falsche Todesstufe verabschiedet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Die Stufe bezeichnete, dass es unverantwortlich war, dass niemand in der Schule seine offiziellen, offiziellen Verhältnisse bemerkt hat, als er um die Schule ging, nach Stunden für fast eine Stunde. Sie bemerkten auch, dass niemand die Überwachungsvideos, die auf einem Live-Monitor auf der Schule gefilmt wurden, monitorierte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
It was also known that after the murder, the janitors were literally called to clean up blood in the bathroom, but police were not called. Nobody knew anything about anything until hours later when the parents of Philip and Colleen reported them missing. The cleaning company completely cleaned the blood out of the bathroom, getting rid of
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
so viel potenzielles forensisches Beweis und nichts zu den Polizisten zu berichten. Also wurde die Kleidungsfirma, die für die Schule arbeitete, auch in diesem Schuh genannt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Nun, ein anderer Student, der sie damals nahe hatte, hat ihn wirklich überrascht und niemand weiß genau, was ihn so überrascht hat, aber es wird gedacht, dass er wahrscheinlich nur über seine Eltern' recenten Verabschiedung und ihre Erinnerung an Tennessee denkt. hat diese negativen Gefühle aufgebracht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Nun, viele Leute können sagen, dass es nicht wirklich egal ist, dass sie all diese Beweise gekleidet haben, weil er von dem Mord sowieso verurteilt wurde, aber ich denke, dass es eine große Sache ist und dass dies in der Trial sehr helfen könnte, um genau zu wissen, wann Colleen verurteilt wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Wenn es nicht so viel Blut gab, dass sie Bilder davon hatten und es dem Jury zeigen konnten, dann hätten sie wissen können, dass sie nicht in diesem Wohnzimmer getötet wurde und dass es eher so ist, dass sie in den Wäldern getötet wurde. Und vielleicht hätten sie ihn für Rape verurteilt, wenn sie nur beobachten konnten, wie viel Blut im Wohnzimmer drin war, um zu sehen, ob sie noch lebendig war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
War da viel Blut drin? War da nicht viel Blut drin? Das hätte in diesem Trial viel geholfen. Viele von euch werden sich fragen, weshalb das so wichtig ist. Warum machen sie das? Jemand hat das Blut gekleidet, also was? Er ist immer noch hinter den Bars. Aber ich denke, dass das in diesem Trial viel geholfen hätte. Und ich denke, dass das sehr wichtige Beweise war, das gekleidet wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und ich denke, es ist wirklich seltsam, dass man in ein Bad geht und Blut sieht, auch wenn es nicht viel ist. Auch wenn jemand sich getötet hat. Auch wenn man denkt, oh, jemand hat sich wahrscheinlich ziemlich schlecht getötet. Selbst wenn du das siehst, solltest du etwas sagen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Ein Kind hat sich wahrscheinlich in die Toilette geholt und sich enttäuscht oder getötet oder von jemand anderem verletzt. Es gibt wirklich keinen Grund, dass Blut in einer Toilette in der Schule sein sollte. Und ich denke, dass sie die Polizei nicht angerufen haben, ist sehr unverantwortlich. Jedoch wurde die Kleidungskompanie nicht von etwas in dieser Schuhe verurteilt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie standen auf dem Grund, dass, Quote, Es wird nicht beurteilt, dass eine der Anwesenden, die Chisholms Angriff beurteilt hat, während Colleen noch da war oder die schreckliche Blutkriegsszene beobachtet hat. Aufgrund dessen hat der Gericht beurteilt, dass diese Verletzung die Familie verursacht hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie haben auch herausgefunden, dass die Kleinfirma der Ritzer-Familie keine Anwesung an die Ritzer-Familie verdient hatte, die sie legal für irgendetwas verweigern würde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But the wrongful death suit against the security at the school was allowed to stand because of, quote, the negligent design and implementation of the security system as a whole was a substantial contributing factor in causing Colleens death. But I have not heard anything else about where this suit went.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
I don't know how long these type of things are supposed to take, but I haven't really seen anything about this stated within the past couple of years. But I have seen that the family is using Colleens death to do something good for their community. They have set up the Colleen E. Ritzer Memorial Scholarship, which benefits graduating high school seniors who reside in Andover and Danvers,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
die in eine Ausbildung in einer vierjährigen Universität gehen, was ich einfach so cool finde. Am Ende des Tages, nachdem ich all die Beweise gehört habe, stimme ich vollständig mit dem Argument der Verwaltung. Ich denke, er wusste genau, was er machte, er wusste, dass es falsch war und die Beweise zeigen das. Ich denke, es ist offensichtlich, dass er sich emotional und mentale zerstört fühlt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Viel von dem, was nach dieser initialen Konversation passiert ist, wurde tatsächlich auf dem Schulverwaltungsvideo gefilmt. Um 2.45 Uhr hat Colleen aus ihrem Klassenzimmer rausgehauen und ihren Weg in die Wälder Richtung der Frauenbäckerei geführt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er ging durch viele Dinge, die sehr schwierig sind. und seine Leben waren nicht unbedingt einfach. Aber in meiner Meinung ist jeder, der Mörder verurteilt hat, etwas mit ihm mentalt falsch. Ich denke, es ist eine dumme Argumentation, zu sagen, oh, jemand war mentalt krank und sie konnten ihre Aktionen nicht kontrollieren und deshalb sollten sie nicht für den Mörder verantwortlich sein.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
I don't think that anybody who is mentally healthy and mentally well is gonna go on to murder somebody. It's a given. That just doesn't happen. Literally almost anybody who commits a murder has at least something mentally wrong with them. So using that argument is really stupid in my opinion. Maybe I'm too harsh about all this. I don't know. Let me know what you guys think.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But to me, I think it's just a dumb argument. I do understand if somebody didn't know right from wrong, but this question of whether he knew what he was doing was right or wrong is obvious. Er hat die offenen Schritte genommen, um zu beobachten, was er gemacht hat. Er hat sichergestellt, dass niemand ihn gesehen hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Das zeigt in und für sich, dass er wusste, dass das, was er gemacht hat, falsch war. Also, das sind fast alle meine Gedanken auf diesen Fall. Ich weiß, dass das ein sehr störendes Fall war. Es war sehr schwierig zu hören. Aber... Das scheint der Trend der letzten Videos zu sein. Es sind alle sehr schwierige Fälle gewesen. Alle sehr traurige und zerstörerende Fälle.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Aber das bedeutet nicht, dass sie nicht gesprochen werden sollten, weil Colleen eine wunderschöne Seele war. Sie war ein wunderschöner Mensch. Sie hatte so viel Potenzial. Mein Herz geht absolut an alle von Colleens Familie, Freunde und alle von ihren Studenten, die die Ehre gehabt haben, in einer ihrer Klassen zu sein. Seine Schüler liebten sie absolut.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie hat so viele Leben bereitet und ihr Tod hat so viele Menschen beeinflusst. Sie hatte so viel Potenzial, um so viele Leben zu helfen. Es schadet mir einfach, dass sie verurteilt wurde, weil sie versucht hat, jemandem zu helfen. Sie ging aus ihrem Weg, um Philipp zu helfen und er hat sie bezahlt, indem er ihr Leben genommen hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Dann kann Philipp gesehen werden, als er in die Wälder geht, ein bisschen herumschaut und einen Moment wandert und dann zurück in den Klassenzimmer geht. An diesem Punkt berichtet ein anderer Student, dass er sich mit ihm gesprochen hat, aber genau das, was er gesagt hat, nicht gehört hat. Er ging dann wieder zurück in den Wohnraum, dieses Mal mit einer Hütte über seinem Kopf.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Es ist furchtbar und ich bin wirklich froh, dass er hinter den Bars ist, weil Besonders wegen diesem anderen Angriff, den er gegen diese andere Frau gemacht hat. Es ist offensichtlich, dass er das immer noch tun würde, wenn er aus der Gefängnisverwaltung gegangen wäre.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Dann fing er an, in die gleiche Toilette zu gehen wie Colleen und holte ein Paar Glöckchen aus seinen Händen. Er ist gesehen, in die gleiche Toilette zu gehen wie Colleen und legte dann das Paar Glöckchen an. In der Toilette schlug ein anderer Student ein, aber sie beobachteten, dass sie gerade jemanden verändern wollten, also ging dieser andere Student weg.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Um 3.07 Uhr ist er gesehen, die Toilette mit der Hütte noch auf seinem Kopf zu lassen. He then went down the hall and down a few flights of stairs and then outside into the parking lot where he can be seen running. And then he came back inside by 3.09 wearing a white t-shirt, again still running through the halls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Hallo alle, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück auf meinem Kanal. Der Fall, den ich euch heute habe, wurde von euch beantragt und nach mehr darüber nachzusehen, kann ich definitiv sehen, warum. Es ist ein sehr störendes Fall und es ist ein geschlossenes Fall, aber zu wissen, wie alles passieren konnte, ist so frustrierend und unglaublich.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He then went back into the classroom and came out once again at 3.11, now wearing a red sweatshirt over his head, carrying what looks like three bags, one being a lunchbox and the others being backpacks, and then he went downstairs. He then came back upstairs without the bags and again is just running through the halls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He then can be seen walking through the hall with a recycling bin and returned back to the bathroom by 3.16. At this point he had put on a black ski mask. He then came out of the bathroom at 3.22, this time wearing his white t-shirt and a black mask while pulling the recycling bin. He then goes into an elevator and goes outside, still with the recycling bin.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He can be seen bringing the recycling bin around the school and this entire time he can be seen walking past several people who don't interact with him. Then he can be seen entering the school again wearing his white t-shirt and now without the recycling bin and he appears to be barefoot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er geht dann wieder ins Bad um 4.02 Uhr und wechselt sich in einen schwarzen Hoodie und Schuhe, mit einem weißen Nike Backpack und ist immer noch sauber. Er wird dann in der Parkplatte gesehen, als er mit einem anderen Studenten gesprochen hat und diese Studenten scheinen auch sauber zu sein.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Wir finden später heraus, dass das einige seiner Teamleute auf dem Fußballteam sind und er sagt ihnen, nicht in die Schule zu gehen. Er spricht mit dem Studenten für ein paar Minuten, bevor er weggeht. Am 4.24 Uhr sieht er sich wieder in Schuhen an und trägt den schwarzen Hoodie. Er kommt wieder in die Schule und kann die Hallen sehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Irgendwann nimmt er dann einen anderen Backpack, einen roten Nike-Backpack, und trägt ihn mit seinem weißen Backpack. Er geht dann auf die Steine und durch die Hallen, und um 4.30 Uhr verlässt er endlich die Schule. Wie gesagt, Colleen lebte noch zu Hause während ihres Todes. So both of them. Thomas und Peggy gingen an die Danvers-Polizeistation, um Colleen verurteilt zu werden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Um die gleiche Zeit verurteilte Philipps Mutter, dass er verurteilt wurde, nachdem er nicht in seiner normalen Zeit zur Fußballpraxis kam. Aber in erster Linie hat die Polizei die beiden nicht verbunden. Sie haben angefangen, beide als zwei verschiedene Fälle zu suchen. Aber dann, um 12.30 Uhr am 23. Oktober, fanden die Polizei Philipp auf der Seite der Straße auf einer nahen Straße.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So police pulled over and they stopped him. He was carrying a backpack at the time and so police decided to search it. Inside of the backpack police found a box cutter that was absolutely covered in blood and when police asked Philip where this blood came from, he simply stated, the girl. Also inside of his backpack they found Colleens credit card as well as her underwear.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So immediately police arrested him and charged him with murder. Before that point, police had been searching for Colleen everywhere. But after finding Phillip, they knew that they were now searching for a body. And they actually ended up finding her very quickly. She was found in a wooded area right by the school and her body was in horrific condition. She had very clearly been violently attacked.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie wurde mit ihrem Shirt nach oben gefangen und sie war nackt unter ihrem Hals. Seine Beine hatten sich in einer sexuellen Art und Weise verbreitet und ein Bäckchen hatte sich innerhalb ihres Halses eingestellt. Sie haben auch eine Note nahe ihres Körpers gefunden, die schrieb, dass sie euch alle hassen. Nahe ihres Körpers haben sie einen Recyclingkasten gefunden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Heute werden wir über den brutalen Mord von Colleen Ritzer diskutieren. Pauline Ritzer wurde am 13. Mai 1989 geboren zu den Eltern Thomas und Peggy Ritzer in Lawrence, Massachusetts, und sie war die älteste von zwei Brüdern, Laura und Daniel. Sie wurde als eine intelligente, talentierte Frau growing up beschrieben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Und innerhalb des Recyclingzimmern haben sie ein Paar Glöckchen gefunden, die in Blut gesäubert wurden. Es scheint, dass Philip Colleen in den Waschzimmer gefolgt hat und sie dann 16 Mal verurteilt hat, indem er ihr den Mund geschlagen hat. Und dann hat er sie verurteilt. Nun, wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, hat ein Student auf sie eingewandert, als all das stattfand.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But the student immediately left because she just assumed that somebody was changing. Then, after being interrupted, he went out and got the recycling bin and then put her body into it and then took her to the wooded area where he dumped her body on the ground and then sexually violated her once again with this tree branch.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Dann wissen wir, dass er natürlich Zeit verbracht hat, all seine Dinge zu sammeln und seine Kleidung zu verändern. Dann wissen wir natürlich, dass er ihr Unterhaut und ihre Kreditkarte verkauft hat. Und dann ist er weg und hat sich Fastfood und einen Filmticket mit Colleens Kreditkarte gekauft.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Also, wie gesagt, Philipp wurde verhaftet und verurteilt mit Colleens Mord, weil es offensichtlich war, dass er sie getötet hat. Sie sahen das Schulverwaltungsvideo und konnten sehr schnell genau auswählen, was passiert ist. Nachdem er mit dem Mord verhaftet wurde, wollte die Verwaltung ihn als Adult verhaftet. Aber ich glaube, als er vor dem Trial aufwuchs, war er an einem Jugendlager.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But while in this facility he committed yet another heinous crime against another woman. In 2014 he attacked a 28-year-old staff member at the facility that he was staying at. He sat and watched her and waited for the perfect moment when nobody was watching.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He watched her as she walked into the locker room and then followed her in there and took off his shoes to make sure that she did not hear him coming behind her. He then got up behind her, surprised her, slammed her against a wall sie zerstörte, sie zerstörte und sie mit einem Pencil zerstörte. Glücklicherweise hörte ein weiterer Mitarbeiter, was nahe war, also riefen sie in, um sie zu retten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Glücklicherweise endete sie in Ordnung. Er wurde verurteilt für diese Tatsache, aber es war nicht erlaubt, in seinem zukünftigen Mordverfahren eingeladen zu werden. Offenbar war das so, weil es nicht verbunden war, es brauchte nicht eingeladen zu werden, da der Jurist nur einen Job hatte, was to hear the details of Colleens murder and then decide if Philip was guilty of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
But thankfully he was tried and found guilty of this attack in a later trial. At the pre-trial hearing for Colleens murder, Philips defense attorney tried everything that he could to get certain pieces of evidence thrown out before the trial date. First they said that when police saw Philip walking on the side of the road the morning after or the night of the murder,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie hatten keine juristische Wahrnehmung, ihn zu stoppen und ihn zu suchen. Sie sagten, dass alle Beweise, die sie an der Nacht gefunden haben, sowie alle Statements, die er gemacht hat, nicht wahr sein sollten, weil sie seine Vierteländerrechte für ihn verurteilen und ihn für keinen Grund suchen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Als sie ihn gefunden haben, wussten sie nicht, dass er in irgendeiner Weise mit Colleen verbunden war. Die Verteidigung beantragte, dass die Polizei Philippe zu einem späteren Zeitpunkt aufhören könnte, after finding evidence that actually connected him to Colleens murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
However, the officers came back and said that they had no choice but to stop him because of their role as community caretakers. They saw him walking alone in the dark along a narrow stretch of highway in the middle of the night. That is a very dangerous thing to be doing, so police argued that it was their job to stop him and at the very least check on him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie ging zur Hochschule an der Andover-Hochschule, dann ging sie an der Assumption College zur Schule, um Lehrer zu werden. Sie war in ihrem zweiten Jahr als Mathematiker an der Danverser Hochschule, an der Zeit ihres Todes. Sie wurde als eine so glückliche junge Frau beschrieben, die ihre Familie, ihre Freunde und ihre Schüler absolut liebte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
They said that it would have been very irresponsible if they saw him to just ihn an der Zeit des Nachts in der Gegend, in der er war, zu lassen. Und der Gericht verabschiedete sich mit der Polizei. Er verabschiedete sich, dass es sehr unverantwortlich gewesen wäre, wenn diese Polizisten nur einen jungen Mann gesehen hätten,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
alleine in der Dunkelheit zu laufen und ihn einfach weg zu lassen, ohne ihn zu beobachten. Wiederum, sie wussten an diesem Punkt nicht, dass er in irgendeiner Weise mit Colleen verbunden war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie sahen ihn und dachten einfach nur, dass er ein junger Mann war, der vielleicht Probleme hatte, von dem sie nicht wussten, warum er sich alleine in der Mitte der Nacht verliebt hatte, und sie waren besorgt. Aber dann, als sie herausgefunden haben, wer es war, haben sie herausgefunden, dass es eine vermisste Person war, die an der gleichen Nacht vermisst wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So of course, all of that evidence was allowed to be used in court. There were other things that they tried arguing, such as saying that Philip didn't fully understand his Fifth Amendment right to stay silent during the police interrogation. They said that since he was only 14 years old, that he was intimidated by police and didn't fully understand what was going on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He didn't understand that he had the right not to answer questions if he didn't want to. But again, police pointed to his calm demeanor and the way that he composed himself during the police interviews. He knew exactly what he did. He would even correct officers on what he says actually happened when police were going over what they thought happened that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
He chose to disclose certain things while choosing to hide others. The way he spoke and the content of what he said made it very clear dass er vollständig verstanden hat, was er getan hat und dass er alles verstanden hat, was da los war. Also begann der Trial für Colleens Mord am 16. November 2015 und an diesem Punkt war Philip 16 Jahre alt und wurde als Kind getötet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Er wurde mit Mord in der ersten Klasse, zwei Rappen und Verbrechen verurteilt. Natürlich wusste jeder, dass Philip Colleen verurteilt hatte. Es gab keine Argumente darüber. Es war offensichtlich. Also, die Entscheidung der Verteidigung war es, eine Argumentation darüber zu kommen, warum das geschehen ist und warum Philip nicht verantwortlich für seine Aktionen war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Die Verteidigung machte die Argumentation, dass Philip von einer schweren mentalen Krankheit leidet und dass er in einem Zustand von Psychose war, als er Colleen ermordet hat. Therefore he is not criminally responsible for his actions. So first the defense brought forward a bunch of Philips family and friends to speak on his character.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
They all described him as a well-behaved, normal, kind young boy who became mehr und mehr zurückgezogen und ruhig in den Wochen nach Colleens Mord. Sie brachten auch einen Psychiater namens Dr. Richard Dudley vor, der den Stand nahm, um über Philipps Psychose zu sprechen. Er argumentierte, dass Philipp seit 10 Jahren auf dem Schizophrenie-Spektrum war,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie lebte damals noch zuhause und arbeitete auch bei Salem State College, um ihr Grad zu erreichen. Sie liebte das Lehren und wollte das Beste für ihre Arbeit, was sie konnte. Sie machte oft Zeit, um ihre Studenten ein-zu-ein zu helfen und würde sogar nach Stunden nach der Schule bleiben, um ihnen zu helfen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
und dass etwas ihn auf einen psychotischen Ereignis und den Mord von Colleen beeinträchtigte. Er sagte, dass Philipp Gerüchte hörte, die ihn beantragten, diese Aufgabe auszuüben. Er sagte, dass Philipp wirklich glaubte, dass er ein Ninja war an der Zeit des Mordes und das ist der Grund, warum er das gemacht hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Ein anderer Psychiater, ein Experte in Kindheitspsychose namens Dr. Devere, bestätigte, dass Kindheitspsychose in Familien funktionieren kann. and go undiagnosed before an acute episode happens. She said that if a child is exhibiting some weird behaviors, adults may not notice it and just pass off these weird behaviors as weird teen behavior.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
She said that teens with psychosis may hear voices and just put on headphones and always want to be listening to music to drown these voices out. She said that kids oftentimes start having unusual ideas and beliefs that just don't make sense and have a lot of bizarre thoughts. But again, she said that a lot of adults just passen diese als ein Kind, das eine Phase durchgeht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Ein Kind mit Schizophrenie kann also bis weit zu spät und undiagnostiziert werden. Sie sagte, dass ein psychotischer Ereignis von absolut nichts getriggert werden kann, oder es kann von einer riesigen Lebenstransition getriggert werden, die das Kind über die Ecke drücken kann.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
Sie sagte, dass einige akute Ereignisse passieren, in denen das Kind niemandem über die Symptome erzählt, die sie erleben, insbesondere die Hörer. Es wird also nichts getan, bis etwas Großartiges wie das passiert. The defense also pointed to an incident that happened in court while the trial was happening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE COLLEEN RITZER CASE / CAUGHT ON SURVEILLANCE
So the trial actually had to be put on hold at some point because Philip had a mental breakdown in court. He was subsequently put into a holding cell during their recess, but once he was in there, he refused to leave and he was having a complete meltdown. The judge came over to his cell to see what was happening and saw that Philip was just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Yes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She was married to a man named Ron, and together the couple went on to have two daughters, Kaylin, who was born on March 12, 2004, and Madison, who was born in September of 2007. And of course, Judy loved her daughters. She called them the colors of her heart. Judy made sure to always make sure that her daughters felt loved and cared for.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
But even after screaming for help and asking him to stop, saying that she would just come with him if he stopped, he didn't listen. He reached into his pocket, grabbed his lighter, and set her on fire. She made it clear that he was in a state of anger. He looked evil. He didn't want to make up with her, and it wasn't an accident. He was malicious, evil, and purposeful.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Then she described how it felt to be set on fire. She said it felt like a thousand needles all penetrating her body at one time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
During cross-examination, of course, Michael's attorney brought up her own drug use history, how there were several times that Michael accused Judy of stealing things, of trying to take her own life, and things like that. But she said that none of those things were true, that he made all of those things up just to have more control over her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
They also talked about the day of the incident and Michael's attorney brought up that Judy had been on drugs at the time that this entire incident took place. Then Michael's attorney basically asked why she didn't run away from the time that he poured gas on her during the 30 seconds while he walked away and grabbed the lighter and came back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
she basically explained that 30 seconds goes by a lot faster than you think she was just trying to get the gas off of her at that time she had an issue with her shoe so that also made it hard for her to stand back up at the time because as he was pouring gas on her she like fell over and was either sitting or lying and it made it hard to get back up after he had done that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
However, while Judy was pregnant with Madison, Ron cheated on Judy and the relationship between Judy and Ron fell apart. And from there, of course, they broke up. Now, when Judy was younger, she had been diagnosed with ovarian cancer, which she did beat the first time and she went into remission. However, by 2006, unfortunately, the cancer returned.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
and she said that she really didn't want to run away. She just wanted to plead with Michael. She didn't run away because she was pleading with him to just let her come back in the truck, that she would come with him if he didn't hurt her anymore. That's basically how and why it happened the way it did. So, Judy gave her deposition in January of 2017, and unfortunately, less than five months later,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
On June 27th, 2017, Judy passed away from her injuries and immediately Michael was charged with her murder. When she gave her deposition, she was asked what she wanted to happen to Michael if she were to die from her injuries. and she said that she wanted Michael to be charged with murder and she wanted him to face a life sentence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So by July of 2018, Michael Slager pleaded guilty to charges of murder and as part of the plea agreement, he was sentenced to life in prison. Judy didn't want Michael to face the same fate as her. She wanted Michael to spend his life in jail, and she hoped that he would become a better person, which is such a brave and selfless way to look at it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
I promise I would not have that same forgiveness in my heart if someone did something like this to me. Absolutely no way. So she was just very strong and she wanted to forgive him and she wanted him to become a better person after what he did to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Also, before Judy died, her daughters and her mother said that Judy's very last words were telling her daughters that she loved them and to always remember that they are the colors of her heart. Throughout all of this, as I mentioned earlier, Judy's daughters and her family worked hard to push for tougher legislation in Ohio for assaults that leave the victim permanently disfigured.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
And on September 7th, 2017, Judy's law was enacted into Ohio law. This law increases the prison sentence for people who intentionally disfigure another person in their attack.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Another interesting thing to this case was that investigators were talking about how it was a very unique opportunity for them to be able to speak with the murder victim and get her side of things and have her tell her story. And again, tell them exactly what she wanted to happen to Michael because obviously in most murder cases, the person is already deceased by the time police get there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So they said this was a very unique and amazing opportunity to be able to speak with the victim and get her thoughts and tell her story about everything that happened before she ultimately passed away from her injuries. And I think that that's pretty incredible as well. So that is all I have for today's video. And of course, Judy is such an inspiration for so many reasons.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She literally went through so much in her life through the cancer, through addiction, and yet she still found the power and strength to stand up for herself, for her children, and other victims like her. She even wanted what was best for Michael after what he did to her, which truly goes to show what kind of person she is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
This is such a sad and disgusting case with a very, very sad ending, but I wanted to make sure that I told you all Judy's incredible story Again, everything that happened is horrible, but I'm so happy that she lived to tell her story and that she lived to make sure that people knew this was not an accident, that Michael was pure evil, and that she suffered greatly because of what he did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
But that is all I have for today's video and now I want to know what you guys think. Do you think that Michael deserved to be forgiven by Judy and do you think that he should have faced the death penalty or do you think life in prison is enough of a sentence for him? Let me know this and any other thoughts that you have in the comments below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Make sure you go ahead and check out the links that I have down below. One of them is the website for Judy's Foundation, so make sure to go ahead and check that page out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
After the cancer came back, the doctors performed a full hysterectomy on Judy, but that just led to more and more issues. Judy began to struggle with opioid abuse to deal with all of the pain that she was suffering from that surgery, which unfortunately was a very common occurrence during that time due to the overprescription of opioid drugs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
make sure you go ahead and follow me on twitter and instagram both will be linked down below as well and if you have absolutely any case suggestions please make sure to go ahead and fill out the google form that i have listed down below as well with that i hope you guys have an amazing week stay safe stay healthy and i hope to see you next time bye
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
It got to the point that her insurance stopped covering the opioids that she relied on. So unfortunately, she ended up turning to street drugs and that got her hooked on heroin. Through that though, her family worked hard to support her, help her raise her children, and do whatever they could to help her recover from her addiction.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you all today is one that is truly an incredible case. The amount of courage and power this woman showed after going through literally the worst thing imaginable is truly amazing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
After a while, she did start to get back up on her feet and she started to make really great progress. She had her own apartment, she was clean, she had gone to rehab, and she had been getting income via disability paychecks that she got due to her cancer and other issues, as well as her mother helping out with her bills.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
But by 2014, it was also around this time that a man named Michael Slager reached out to Judy via Facebook, and the two quickly connected. Now, Michael and Judy had already known each other previously. Michael knew Ron and their other group of friends and she had hung out with him and, you know, Ron and the other friends before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So, they knew each other and after years of not seeing each other or talking, Michael reached out to Judy and they reconnected. They went on their first date and after that, the pair became almost inseparable. And during that time, Judy also slipped back into her addiction. What she didn't know about Michael at the time was that he had a long criminal history.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
He had passed criminal offenses for theft, stalking, domestic abuse, rape, battery, assault, breaking and entering, and child endangerment. She didn't know that she was bringing such a dangerous man into her life and into her family. The relationship between Michael and Judy was a very toxic one. The first incident that police got involved with was in May of 2015.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
The two would get into really aggressive verbal fights and Judy would either scream or she would fight back or she would leave. And Michael was typically the one who would call 911 on Judy to report these incidences.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So what would happen sometimes is like the two would fight and Judy would lock herself in her room to get away from him or she would scream back or try to fight back in any way that she could.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
However, after call after call, eventually adding up to over 30 different incident calls, police got the feeling that Michael was calling the police so often as a way to control Judy and scare her into submission.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
They believed that he used this as a way to basically say, like, the cops are on my side, they know that you're abusive, you're gonna get in trouble if, you know, we keep fighting like this, etc. Also, while the two dated, Michael would supply Judy with the drugs that she was taking, even though he did not use any drugs himself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So to me, that says that basically he liked that she was dependent on drugs, which therefore made her more dependent on him since he was the one who was getting the drugs for her. So if she was dependent on the drugs, he was the one that was always getting them for her, keeping her addicted, keeping her coming back for more. that also kept her coming back to Michael because she needed him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
It's overall a very sad and devastating case, but I'm really looking forward to telling you all about the story of Judy Malinowski. Judy Malinowski was born on August 26th, 1983, being the firstborn to her parents. Judy was overall known as being from a loving family with a happy childhood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Things got so bad in the relationship between them to the point that Bonnie, Judy's mother, tried several times to get Judy out of the relationship. But every time she tried, Judy said that she was scared. She was scared of what would happen if she left Michael. She said that Michael had threatened her life on several occasions if she did try to leave.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
and she did try to get help from the police on a few occasions. One time, she recalls calling the police and asking them for help, but it seemed that even though she told the police that she was afraid that Michael was going to kill her, they didn't seem all that concerned at the time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
The vibe that Bonnie and the rest of Judy's family got from the police was that they just thought of Judy as this past junkie. That she got herself into drugs and that it was her own problem to deal with. That, you know, she was into drugs and that this is what's really causing her issues. The family felt that the police just did not take Judy seriously during this time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
However, by August of 2015, that is when Judy finally decided that the best thing for her was to get away. She decided to go to rehab, not only to recover from her addiction, but to also get away from Michael. So on August 2nd, 2015, Michael agreed to drive her to rehab. But when she got to the rehab facility, she decided that she wasn't ready.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
This rehab facility allowed her to bring cigarettes with her and she didn't have any at the time, so she wanted to go to the store and get some cigarettes to bring with her to rehab. But she also wanted to talk to her family beforehand and let them know everything that was going on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
But as they were driving from the rehab facility to the gas station, the two kept arguing and fighting and fighting and fighting. So by the time they got to the gas station to get the cigarettes, things got very heated. Michael went inside of the Speedway gas station to get the cigarettes while Judy ran to the back of the Speedway to get some time to herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
But Michael came out and kind of drove around to the back and found her in the back of the Speedway. And at that time, Michael got out of the truck and the argument got much more intense. Witnesses report that Judy splashed her soda on Michael, so Michael responded by going back to his truck, getting a canister of gasoline, and pouring it on Judy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Then Michael was seen returning to his car where he grabbed a lighter. It's been reported that he either grabbed the lighter out of his car or he grabbed it out of his pocket, but he did return to the car and come back a few seconds later. Then he went over to Judy and he set her on fire.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Witnesses frantically called 911 after witnessing this and it showed that Michael literally sat there and watched as Judy burned alive. And the way that she lit and immediately ignited into roaring flames. Onlookers knew that this was something terrible. It didn't look like anything close to an accident.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She had a younger brother named Patrick and a sister named Danielle, who she absolutely doted on and adored, and she was absolutely beautiful. Growing up, she won several beauty pageants, including being crowned Miss New Albany and Homecoming Queen at her high school, New Albany High School, in 2001. After graduating from high school, Judy went on to Ohio State University.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
By the time officers arrived and spoke with Michael, he originally tried telling them that the whole thing was an accident. He said that Judy was getting gas when a little bit splashed on her. Then she caught fire when she was using a lighter to try to light a cigarette. But officers could tell that this isn't even close to what happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Her entire body was on fire and it was so hot that her clothes had been melting off. It was just horrible. So then, Michael changed his story. He admitted that the two were fighting, and Judy splashed her soda on him, so he responded by splashing her with gas from a container that he had in the car, but he said that things actually calmed down.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So, she pulled out a cigarette, and he went to go light it for her, And that is when she caught on fire. But police quickly found a surveillance video from a nearby bank that clearly showed him pouring gas on Judy and then going to his car and then lighting her on fire. And of course, when questioning the witnesses, they confirmed that it looked like he purposely set Judy on fire.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So immediately, Judy was sent to the hospital where she was not expected to survive. They expected her to live for a couple hours or a couple of days, but not anything beyond that. She had third and fourth degree burns on over 90% of her body, which is just horrific.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She underwent over 50 different surgeries and procedures, including several infections that started, multiple fevers, dressing changes for all of the burns, which can be excruciatingly painful. She had to get skin graft surgeries, reconstruction surgeries, many of which did fail. She lost all of her hair. She lost several fingers and she lost her ears.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She laid in a coma for weeks and throughout her stay, she coded many times requiring life-saving measures. She struggled to breathe. She couldn't move her body and if she did, she had excruciating pain. But through all of this, Judy fought. She fought like hell with her children and her family surrounding her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Even when she was in a coma, her family said that she grit her teeth and she was determined to survive so that she could tell her story. At the same time, Michael was arrested and charged with aggravated arson and felony assault.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Again, because Judy survived, he knew that Judy would be able to testify at his trial and he knew that seeing Judy in the condition she was in and hearing the words of what she suffered would make a jury even more motivated to put him behind bars for as long as they could. So he pled no contest to the charges and for this he was sentenced to 11 years behind bars.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
That was the maximum amount of time that someone could be charged with this type of sentence. But of course, given that he was only going to serve 11 years, was just heartbreaking to Judy's family. Judy suffered constant pain. She was permanently disfigured. She would never be the same. From her hospital bed, Judy wanted to live so that she could make the changes that she wanted to see.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She wanted the laws around this type of charge to be changed. At the same time as Judy clung to life, her condition started to get worse. But she spoke with investigators and it was clear that Judy had a clear memory of what happened and she wanted to speak her truth.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Judy was known as being a beautiful person on the inside and out. She was known for her special ability to love all people unconditionally without judgment. She was passionate and loving with a free spirit and a quick wit. She was someone that could always make those around her smile and feel good.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So after almost a year and a half, she started to wean off of her pain medications, which happened over the duration of a few weeks, enduring even more pain and suffering just so she could prove that she was in the right state of mind to tell her story.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She knew that there was a possibility that she might die, and with that, she wanted to testify against Michael in the inevitable murder trial that would come after she died. So she did. When speaking about the events of that day, she spoke clearly and forcefully. She was questioned by the prosecution as well as cross-examined by Michael's lawyer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
When speaking about that day, she said that Michael had been taking her to this rehab center where she was supposed to check in, but like I said, she decided at that time that she didn't want to go right then and there. She decided that before committing herself, she wanted to talk to her daughters and her mother about the whole thing,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So they left rehab and stopped at a gas station, that's Speedway. When they got to the gas station again, Judy wanted to pick up more cigarettes since she was allowed to bring them to rehab and she was completely out of cigarettes at that time. That is important to note that she literally had zero cigarettes. She didn't have any left and that is why she wanted to go to the gas station to get more.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
But throughout the entire car ride, the two were arguing. So when Michael went inside the speedway to get the cigarettes, Judy got out of the car and again went behind the speedway by herself to get some space. But when Michael got out of the gas station, obviously he saw that Judy was no longer in the truck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
So he got in the truck and then pulled around to the back of the gas station to follow her. That is when he found her behind the Safeway and he pulled up next to her and demanded that she get into the truck. Michael got out of the car and the two argued for quite some time and Judy admits that she threw the cup of pop at Michael, which splashed all over him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
Again, she said that she threw the entire cup at him and everything spilled on him, not just like splashing it out at him. So, Michael ran around to the other side of the truck, grabbed the big canister of gas and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
poured gas all over her body he started at her head poured some down her throat and then he covered the rest of her body judy said that as he was pouring the gasoline he looked like pure evil he didn't look like this was a joke he wasn't doing this in a playful way if there even is a playful way to do this he looked evil he would not respond to her screams or her cries for help
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
He just wanted to do whatever he could to her while screaming at her and insulting her the entire time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
She was Burned Alive, Then Testified at her OWN Trial: The Harrowing Story of Judy Malinowski
She was known to put others needs before her own and was just overall the light in the lives of those who knew her. Judy's mother said that Judy always just wanted to have a simple, nice life. She wanted to live in a nice house in a normal neighborhood, and she wanted two children. And it seemed that she was starting to live the life that she had always wanted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. So the case that I have for you guys today is one that I am very conflicted on. I could see how people believe both sides and I definitely think that you guys are going to have very strong beliefs about this case on both sides. But as with any case, please make sure to be respectful in the comments.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
She said that, yes, her and Charlie had gotten into an argument, but she would not go into further detail. Then another friend, Vanessa, who I briefly mentioned at the beginning of this video, recalled a day where Nicole and her were going to a Spurs game. As they were driving to the arena, Charlie called Nicole and asked to speak to Vanessa.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
He basically said to Vanessa that she's lucky that he's letting her go because he doesn't trust her. Vanessa sort of just played along with this because she was just happy at that point that Nicole was coming with. But either way, Nicole was absolutely humiliated by this phone call. Then the same day after the game, Nicole and Vanessa went to a music club and restaurant called The Pearl.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
While they were there, Charlie started calling Nicole's phone over and over and over again. This was making Nicole visibly upset. Charlie found out her location and told her to come home right that second. She didn't even get to finish her drink before she had to get up and leave. Vanessa tried telling Nicole that this behavior is not normal, it's not okay, and it's emotional abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Nicole was an absolute daddy's girl when she was younger. Her dad worked for a construction company out of San Antonio, but when Nicole was only seven years old, her father died of a heroin overdose just two days before Christmas in 1988. Of course, this absolutely devastated Nicole and her mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But despite this, Nicole left and went home anyways. Vanessa also recalls another time at their home that made her feel very uncomfortable. There was one time that Charlie became very, very, very upset because someone had dropped a pepperoni on the floor and he went off and yelled at Nicole about it, saying that one of her daughters dropped it and ordered her to pick it up immediately.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Then there was this other time that Vanessa was over and the TV's sound system wasn't working. And Charlie, once again, got really, really upset and just started blaming Nicole's daughters for all of the problems. Vanessa got the impression that Charlie was controlling and basically just told Nicole what to do.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Vanessa flat out told Nicole that she doesn't like Charlie and she does not like the way that he treats her. But Nicole said that she's a guest in Charlie's house It's his house, not hers, so she has to follow the rules. She assured Vanessa that everything was perfectly fine in her relationship, but all of these events made Vanessa so uncomfortable that she never went back to their house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Vanessa said that the longer their relationship continued, the more withdrawn she became. Her friends started seeing a lot less of her and she was becoming much more quiet. Vanessa said that it's not normal at all for Nicole to be shut down like that. She's normal, a very social, outgoing, and bubbly person. So this was very out of character for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Then another friend named Monica recalls a different time in July of 2017. that Nicole and Charlie were at a hotel celebrating their one-year anniversary in Galveston, Texas. At this hotel, I'm not sure exactly where in the hotel that they were, but they started arguing and it seemed like it got pretty bad because Charlie was asked to leave the hotel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Charlie then started arguing with the security guards who then escorted him up to their hotel room and told him to get his things before making him leave. Well, according to Monica, Charlie took all of his belongings as well as Nicole's belongings, including her cell phone with him, just leaving her stranded by herself at this hotel in a weird city that she wasn't familiar with.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And by weird, I mean weird to her, not that Galveston is a weird place, just that it's not normal for her. She hadn't really been there and she didn't know the area. So Nicole got a taxi over to Monica's house where she told her everything that just happened. She was crying and shaking and she was so upset and embarrassed over the entire thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Again, he literally just left her alone, stranded all by herself with no care in the world. This was really disturbing that he did this. It clearly shows that he did not care what happened to her. He didn't have any regard for how she was going to get home or contact anybody. Clearly, he took her cell phone so that she didn't have any way to contact anybody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
After this, Nicole went on to describe her mother as a functional alcoholic who drank over the years to numb the pain from the loss of her husband. Nicole went on to become a young mother, giving birth to her first son, Skylar, when she was 15 years old. She dropped out of high school her junior year, later going on to obtain her GED.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
not sure if he took her wallet as well she probably had the wallet on her now that i think of it but clearly he did this out of spite and he wanted to just make her life difficult so she told monica that she was going to break up with charlie but as so many people in these situations do she got back together with charlie as soon as she got back to san antonio so these are the different accounts told by nicole's friends
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
i don't think that they've ever been necessarily confirmed by police but they do show a very concerning pattern for nicole and charlie's relationship these stories seem so specific that it's hard to believe that somebody could just make something like this up the fbi has gotten involved in this case and they've said that they have so many questions that they need to be answered
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
before they can just call Nicole a murderer. She's not alive to defend herself. Neither are her daughters. She's not alive to say what was really going on or what really happened. So I think it's great that law enforcement and everybody in this case is not just jumping the gun to calling her a murderer because, again, she's not there to defend herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And it's easy for so many people to just be like, oh, well, obviously this is what happened and throw the word murderer around and just say that she murdered her children. So I'm really glad that they aren't doing that in this case. So a nonprofit called Project Absentees got involved with the case to help out with the investigation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
This nonprofit was created by retired FBI agents to create a bridge between families like Nicole's and law enforcement. They said that they feel like something can be gained from them looking into the evidence And Sheriff Salazar, who's in charge of the case, said that he agrees and that he would love to see if there's anything new that they can shed a light on in the investigation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
One of these retired FBI agents, Taletta Copeland, said, quote, In my 17 years experience as an FBI agent, there are some questions that need to be answered. There's evidence that needs to be collected before Nicole is ever called the murderer. I can't tell you passionately enough. Nicole, in my opinion, is not a murderer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I will go on record saying that she's not a murderer and there's evidence out there that needs to be further analyzed before this case is closed. So just hearing that shows me that there must be so much evidence that we just don't know about. So many things that they are looking into that shows that this isn't all that it seems and that Nicole did not take the lives of her two children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Police also came out and said that figuring out the GPS data in Charlie's car and his activity on his cell phone is going to be a huge step in solving this case. They said that they're not just looking into the cell phone pings, but into geofencing. They want to know when a certain app is used at a certain time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
For example, if someone is using Google Maps at a certain time, they would like to know where and when. Again, the reason they want this is because they want to piece together who was where on the night that this happened. If they found out that maybe he wasn't at home or that he was at home, that can tell a huge difference, obviously, as to what really may have happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
When she was 16 years old, she married Skylar's father, James, but they divorced a year later. By the time Nicole was 20 years old, her mother died unexpectedly the day after Christmas. Again, this was absolutely devastating. Her mother left behind Nicole's 13-year-old brother, so now she had the responsibility not only of taking care of her own baby, but her younger brother as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
However, Sheriff Salazar has also come out and said that at this time, Charlie Wheeler is not a suspect. He's just a person of interest. But there's also several other persons of interest at this time. Charlie is being represented by three lawyers, who came out to the public and asked them not to jump to conclusions.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
They said that they think that it's regrettable that this young man is being demonized. They said that he's not a violent criminal and has no violent record whatsoever. I also do want to be fair in this case, and there have been people who have come out and spoken in support of Charlie and said that their relationship wasn't actually as bad as Nicole's friends are making it out to be.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I do want to say that of course her friends are going to come to bat for her. Not that I don't believe them because honestly I do and...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I'm just gonna come out right and say that and that I do believe that but at the same time you have to understand that supporters of their friend or their family who don't want to believe that she was capable of this, of course they're gonna say that she's a good person and that their relationship was really bad and they're going to be really focused on these red flags that they saw.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Again, not in any way am I saying that I don't believe them because again I do but I do just want to put that out there. Charlie's mother has come out and said that Charlie is absolutely crushed by the shootings. She said that he is grieving and people seeing him as a suspect is just adding to the grief that they're facing. She said that he loved Nicole and that he loved those girls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
His mother said, quote, there's no way that we even saw this coming at all. My son is heartbreaking and he can't even mourn. He can't do anything because he's got a target on his back. A lot of Charlie's friends have also come out to say that he's a really good guy and He loved those girls and he would never hurt them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I will say that maybe I'm missing something but these obviously are a lot more of generalized statements than what we heard from Nicole's friends so I just wanted to point that out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
It's a lot easier to say that someone is a good person generally and oh he loved the girls and oh you know he had a great life and they had a great relationship than to come out with very specific details about things that have happened and a
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Their relationship like Nicole's friends had again It's harder to come up with a lie like an extravagant lie about this whole situation Just to put a target on his back than it is to say. Oh, he's a good person Everyone thinks that their friends and families are good people So I do just want to come out and say that not saying that they're wrong not saying that Charlie is not a good person and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
but i'm just saying it's a lot easier to be like oh yeah my friend he's a great guy than it is to come up with this huge story about something that happened that made you very concerned now i do want to mention that according to the fathers of alexa and london charlie has never once reached out to them to give his condolences in fact no one in the wheeler family attended the visitation or memorial services that they had for nicole and the girls
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But then on the other hand, Charlie's lawyer came out and said that Alexa's father actually wrote him a letter telling him not to attend because for obvious reasons. So there's a gray area with that. Again, my thoughts. I think it's understandable if he doesn't necessarily go, especially if he was asked not to. Obviously, he doesn't want to create any more waves.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
He doesn't want to create any more drama in this entire situation. So I can see why he wouldn't be going there. to these things especially if her family already suspects him of being involved it's better to just stay away and let them grieve and let them deal with it if he isn't involved obviously if he is involved there's a whole nother you know, side to that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
At this time, Nicole just held a bunch of different low-paying jobs just trying to make money and keep the food on the table for her son and her brother. Also around when she was 20 years old, she got married to another man named Carlos, and by 2002, their daughter Alexa was born. Carlos was a Marine, so the family had lived in Hawaii for a period of time before the couple got a divorce in 2006.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But that's just my thoughts on that. I don't think him not going to those things, especially if he truly was asked not to, I don't think that in and of itself points to his guilt. So there are a lot of thoughts around this case and how this entire thing could have happened. I don't want to believe that Nicole is capable of killing her daughters or herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But I do want to be fair in this case, like I said multiple times, so I do want to talk about a couple of things that are a little bit concerning in relation to Nicole. Again, she's deceased, she can't defend herself, but everybody has their baggage, everybody has, you know, things that they've done that maybe they regret, so...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I'm not talking about it for any other reason other than to just sort of put more information to this case and make things make sense. So Nicole did have a little bit of a history of domestic violence. In 2014, she was living with her then boyfriend when she was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault. According to Nicole, the two had been fighting when he dragged her out of the house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
At the time of this report, when she was talking to police, She did appear pretty intoxicated, but she wasn't acting erratically or out of line. When speaking with police, she said that she was upset because she was out and she called her boyfriend and asked him for a ride, but he said no.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
When she got home and looked at his phone though, she saw that he was talking to another woman, so she struck him in the face with an open hand. She did admit to the officer that she hit him first. When Palais looked at the boyfriend, he did have a bruise on his left eye and he had an abrasion on his knee. He told the officer that he tackled Nicole to the ground because she kept hitting him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
A year later, however, the assault charge was dropped because of the boyfriend's lack of cooperation with police and the investigation so as we can see she had a little bit of a side to her that lost her temper sometimes and maybe things got a bit out of control but i will say we don't know the full story here and obviously the charges were dropped for a reason so just keep that in mind as well
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
by no means does that mean that she had any sort of temper against her two girls. I will say that there's never been anything in connection with her girls that says that she's neglectful or abusive. And I know there's been some things that actually came out when she was a lot younger, when she was around 16 years old or a little bit older when she was a new mom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But after that, in her adult life, at least for 10 years before she died, nothing has ever come out about her either. from friends or families or reports saying that she had any sort of temper or had any negative things being done against her children. And other than this, I haven't seen any other reports of domestic abuse or anything like that against another boyfriend or anything like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Again, I'm not trying to defend Nicole. Obviously, it's not okay to hit anybody. It's not okay to be involved in domestic abuse and being the abuser.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
but we don't know the full story and maybe i'm giving a little bit too much credit for her but we don't know what the boyfriend had done to her we don't know if he had a history of him being violent towards her or cheating or whatever it very well could have been that nicole just lost her temper and smacked him
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And that's as simple as that, that she lost her temper and that everything was her fault. Again, I know I'm kind of rambling, but I don't want anyone in the comments saying that I'm giving her too much credit or that, you know, I'm not taking this seriously because it is serious. But again, the reason I'm talking about it is just sort of to piece this entire thing together.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So that being said, I understand that if Nicole and Charlie had gotten into an argument that maybe she could have spun out of control and did something horrific to Charlie. But to me, it literally makes no sense that she would target her girls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
That same year, she went on to get her cosmetology license and started working as a hairstylist. She really started to pick herself back up and she started to flourish in her role as a mother. She admitted that she had a rough time when she was younger, which is absolutely understandable, but the more she got, the more she matured and learned how to take care of herself and her children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Now, if we're talking in terms of theories and how this entire situation could have happened, the only thing to me that could come close to explaining Nicole wanting to take the lives of her daughter is if she genuinely felt that she had no way to escape the abuse from Charlie, so she took the lives of her daughters and her own to sort of protect them and herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But that doesn't really hold much water to me either because she was building a business and as far as I've seen, she continued working as a hairstylist when living with Charlie. So she was making money. It's not like she quit her job and just gave up her life to start living with Charlie. She was still working and being independent and building her own business.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So her feeling trapped in his home with no way out, doesn't really make sense for this situation. Also both Alexa and London's fathers were both very involved in their lives so honestly she could have had them stay with their dads if really there was nowhere else for them to go.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Now again just to be fair and see both sides of this situation I will say that we don't know a lot about Nicole's relationship with their fathers. Maybe she was afraid to tell them because she was afraid that they would try to get full custody of them and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Take them away from her so she didn't want to lose them that way by telling them that something was going on So again, I will say that we don't know the situation if you know she was so afraid like if I tell the father of my children that There's abuse going on they're not going to want them to return back to me. They're not going to want them around me anymore.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So I can definitely see that if she didn't want to tell them that that would be why. But again, she loved her daughters. She wanted what was best for them. And I couldn't see her choosing to take their lives over just losing them by sending them with their fathers. Plus again, we know that she was looking at apartments. She had somewhere to go. She may have even been planning to go there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So I don't see why she would make this permanent decision when she had a way out and she had plans for a way out. The other thought that I had is that maybe if Charlie had convinced her that her daughters are causing all of these problems, we know from Vanessa that he would constantly blame her daughters for very minor things and then blow it out of proportion.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Maybe she felt so strongly that even if they left, that he was going to find them and hurt them and she wanted to stop that from happening. I don't really know. Even just saying this out loud is making me doubt it and it just... doesn't feel right, and it just doesn't really make sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I do want to note that in the wrongful death suit filed by London's dad, he states that Charlie is responsible for the entire thing because he left the house after the argument, leaving his gun there, knowing that Nicole was in a very emotional and panicked state. So basically in this suit, he's admitting that she's the one who took the lives of her daughter and herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Basically just saying that he's responsible because he left her alone in this emotional and not mentally stable state. I don't know if I believe that he believes that this is really what happened or if he's trying to file this wrongful death suit to get more information out of Charlie because Charlie has not really spoken to anybody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
He won't share any information, so to me, just from what I've gathered, it kind of seems like he's more so just trying to get more information out of him in a courtroom where, you know, he can't lie. rather than him actually believing that she took her own life and her daughter's lives. I think that they just think that they need to do something to find answers from Charlie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So the other theory in this case, of course, is that Charlie is responsible. I think that these 911 calls that were made and dropped and the interviews from Nicole's friends all make this a very strong possibility. And in addition to that, I think the fact that she was literally looking at apartments to move soon is too much of a coincidence to ignore.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
When she moved back to San Antonio, she met a man named Hector and went on to have another daughter named London in 2008. The two never got married, but shared custody of her when they broke up. So, at the time of her death, Skylar was 22 years old, Alexa was 16 years old, and London was 10 years old.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I think that if he found out that she was planning to move out, that he may have felt that he was starting to lose control and maybe he acted out of anger. I think that it's possible that he wanted to stop them from leaving because he wanted the ultimate control over them. I think that this makes sense given that he has this history of blowing up and blaming the girls for things.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Maybe he just wanted to control them and mold them into who he wanted them to be, the perfect people for him. And once he realized that he was losing control, he took his anger out on all of them. Or maybe he could tell that Nicole was pulling away. Or maybe this argument was because Nicole broke up with them and maybe he blamed her daughters for their relationship failing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
There's any number of reasons why Charlie could have wanted to harm the girls. but I think control is a huge factor. It's not a case of a couple who is married and has kids together and the man wants out of the relationship because he's cheating and he just doesn't want this life anymore. Obviously, that's a case that we see far too often, I don't think that that's what's happening here.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
She could have moved herself out and took the girls with her if he didn't want them there. He had no strings attached. He didn't have to pay child support. He didn't have to pay alimony. There was nothing that he was going to be responsible for if she left. The only thing that makes sense to me of why he would want to get rid of them in this way is control.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
If I can't have you and you're not going to listen to me, then no one can have you. I do think that it's telling that he himself said that they had this argument before she left. Usually, at least to me, that's a pretty big red flag indicating that something went wrong. Normally, when someone tells a lie, there's a little bit of truth to it and it's sort of creating the lie around this small truth.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
so I do think there was a fight that night and maybe something more happened. Another thought that comes to mind is maybe he didn't necessarily want to kill the girls, but think about it. Who are really the only people who can give information about what was really going on in Nicole and Charlie's relationship? Nicole and the two girls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
If he wanted to kill Nicole, he knows that the girls could have told police that he was abusive or shed light on anything else that was going on into that house. Even if he did it at a time that the girls weren't home and wouldn't witness anything or hear anything, they can still talk to police about his behaviors and his demeanor in that house throughout the relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I just wanna say, I think it's much more credible if the girls came forward to police and told them that he was abusive than her friends. Do I believe the friends? Again, Yes, but they only got a snapshot of the relationship. If I want to be fair to Charlie and give him the benefit of the doubt, we can say that maybe they just had a rough spot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I'm covering this case to help spread awareness and help figure out what really happened in this case. This is not intended to spread hate or negativity against anybody involved, so please, if you have any negative comments, please keep them to yourself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Clearly, she had a very rough upbringing, but that didn't stop her from picking herself back up and becoming the best version of herself possible. Those who knew Nicole described her as being vivacious, energetic, and strong. She absolutely loved her job as a hairstylist. She was also working to build a watch and jewelry business called Kiva De Cole with two close friends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Maybe they were having a couple of really hard days when the other friends saw them and they made up and everything was fine. Maybe it wasn't this bad all the time. Maybe they were going through things that were really stressful and they were acting in ways that just weren't normal and weren't representative of their relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I know that me and my boyfriend have had moments where we're arguing in front of my friends and it's really uncomfortable for everybody else, but I know that it's just in that moment that, you know, something's going on, something's stressful and we're not acting in a way that's normal. I know that I've seen my friends in their relationships
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
argue or say something snarky or just act in a way that made me a little bit uncomfortable. But I know, again, that they're going through something that, you know, they're moving or they're starting a new job or just something really stressful that isn't indicative of their overall relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So again, your friends don't really get a full picture of your relationship and everything else that's going on unless they live with you. But who would know about their day to day lives and everything that happened all the time? Alexa and London. So not to discredit the friends at all, but I do think that it's just more credible if the girls were to say something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I mean, I am more inclined to say that I think that if someone is willing to act a certain way towards their significant other in front of friends or family, and especially if there's multiple accounts of it, I think that the way that that person acts when nobody is watching is probably much worse. That's why I don't want anybody to think that I'm giving Charlie too much credit here because
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I don't think that his behavior in particular is indicative of a bad day. I think that he was probably acting much worse towards her behind closed doors, but I'm explaining all of this for the sake of argument because I think that this is what both sides could argue and it could be a valid point. If this case ever went to trial and they were trying to use the accounts of the friends,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
this is an argument that they could make. The only thing that makes me question this entire thing and Tarly's involvement is the fact that police have not really found any evidence supporting his involvement. Did they test his hands for gunshot residue? Have they gotten information from his cell phone or car yet? If he's responsible, why isn't there really any evidence of it?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
The one thing I do want to mention now is that by the time police got there, they were cold and rigid, according to the police report. That means that they most likely died the night before. So if Charlie is honest in that he left at 10 PM that night and he came back and called police at 9 AM the next day, that's 11 hours that they could have been dead before police got to them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
That's a lot of time for Charlie to clean himself up, maybe get rid of the gunshot residue on his hands get rid of any bloody clothing or any other evidence on his body, get rid of footprints or anything else that can possibly point towards him. Am I saying for sure that he did this and that this is how it went down? No, I'm just saying that it's possible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Another thing that I think adds to this lack of evidence is that she lived with him in his home. His DNA is going to be all over all three of them, whether he's guilty or not, just by touching the same things as he has from sitting on his couch and everything like that. So I don't think DNA evidence is going to be helpful in this case at all.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And again, he had a lot of time to make things look a certain way. Again, I'm not saying that he did for sure, but if he wanted to, he certainly had the time to. But other than that, we are just left with speculation. We can't say one way or another and I don't want to sit here and speculate too long or blame anybody for anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
She was absolutely beautiful and often attracted people by her looks, but she also attracted people by her positive energy and good vibe. One of her favorite things to do was to get together with family around the holidays for food, fun, and games. She was so proud to be a mother of three and her life revolved around her kids and building the best future for them that she could.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Do I want to believe that a mother is capable of harming her children, especially after showing absolutely no signs of being an abusive or neglectful mother? No, of course I don't. But we also can't sit here and blame any one person with this lack of evidence. So that is where I'm going to leave this case. I can sit here and speculate all day about the possible scenarios.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Trust me, I could probably make like a three hour video if I did that. And obviously I did talk about some of the different possibilities, but I want to hold myself to a higher standard where I don't talk about anything unless I have something that I can find that supports it. So anything that I brought up is based on the timeline or interviews or evidence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Beyond that, I don't want to speculate any further. I don't want to throw anyone else's name into this. I don't want to say that someone is for sure responsible. I can give my opinions on this. But again, at the end of the day, remember that everybody is innocent until proven guilty. There's a lot more evidence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
That's behind the scenes that we don't see that we have no idea what it is We have no idea if police are looking in a completely different direction We have no idea what's going on beyond what they've shared with us So I just want you to remember that before you go out and accuse anybody of anything But I am really looking forward to hearing what you all think about this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And I'm also looking forward to seeing what comes out about this case in the coming months. There has not been pretty much any movement on this case in the past year or so. So hopefully something happens soon and we will find out more about what really happened. My heart goes out to Nicole and her two beautiful daughters, Alexa and London.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
They seemed like such wonderful girls who were going to go on to live forever full, amazing, fulfilled lives. I also feel for Skylar who just lost his mother and his two sisters in one day and he's just left with so many questions and very few answers. I hope that he's able to go out and live his life the best way that he can while also trying to figure out what really happened to his family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But either way, that is where I am going to end today's video. Thank you for taking the time to listen to Nicole, Alexa, and London's story. If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up. and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Don't forget to turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss any of my future videos. Also, don't forget to go ahead and check out Sundance now and use code Rachel for 30 days for free. Don't forget to go ahead and follow my Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure to go ahead and send those suggestions over to rachelshannoncases at gmail.com. With that, I hope you guys have a great week. Stay safe and stay healthy, and I hope to see you next time. Bye!
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Alexa Montes, Nicole's second oldest child but her oldest daughter, was a cheerleader at Clark High School and spent her free time volunteering at the local church. Her father described her as just being an awesome, very caring and giving person. He said that he heard people at her school tell him that she would literally give other people her own lunch money if they needed it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
After high school, Alexa had plans to enroll in college at Texas A&M and wanted to study to become an obstetrician. Then we have 10-year-old London Brubiscus. She was a fifth grader at Leon Springs Elementary School. She was described by her dad as being vibrant, kind, and well-liked. She liked animals and singing and someday wanted to audition for America's Got Talent.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Her father said that London was his everything and she was what fueled him to keep going. At the time, Nicole's son, Skyler, was out and living on his own. He was 22 years old, so he was just sort of doing his own thing. But Nicole and her two daughters lived with her boyfriend, Charlie Wheeler.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So Nicole and Charlie met after he noticed her on Instagram and decided to send her a message and shoot his shot. They met for the first time in the summer of 2016. The day that they met, Nicole had a business meeting at the La Cantara Resort, so she invited him over there to meet up with her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
One of Nicole's friends and business partners, Vanessa, was also at the resort the day that Nicole and Charlie met. She said that Charlie was courteous, respectful, and self-assured. Charlie was six years younger than Nicole, and he definitely chased her down and made it very clear that he was interested in her from the get-go, according to Vanessa.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I usually don't feel the need to make these kind of comments, but after one of my recent videos, a lot of people reached out to members of the family and made baseless and wild accusations and I was really disappointed. I know that it's a very, very small amount of you guys that do that, but it happened and it made me really, really upset.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
At the time, Nicole had been divorced twice, as we know, but she'd also just gotten out of relationship with another man who she had lived with for many years. But despite this, Charlie and Nicole's relationship took off very quickly. They seemed so happy together, and early on, Nicole even featured Charlie and herself in a promotional video for her jewelry brand.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
In the video, the couple looks so happy. They look like they're just in this wonderful honeymoon phase, cuddling, kissing, smiling, and looking deeply into each other's eyes. So now let's talk a little bit more about Charlie Wheeler because his background is a pretty stark contrast to how Nicole grew up. Charlie grew up in Fredericksburg, Texas in a nice home with married parents.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
He went to Fredericksburg High School for two years before his parents pulled him out to homeschool him. He then went on to Schreiner University, where he attended less than a year. He grew up in the world of rodeo, with his dad being a team roper and his mom being a horse trainer and barrel racer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So Charlie himself went on to compete in the rodeo for three years, starting when he was 18 years old. He then used his winnings from his time in the rodeo and started a security gate company called On The Go, But when he was 24 years old, he sold the company. By 2011, he started an oil field services company called OTG Services. By 2014, his company grew and he had 140 employees.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But by late 2016, the company stopped operations. He then went on to work with his father on ranching, oil, and gas projects. I also want to note that within the past 10 or so years, he has had a few run-ins with the law. Most of these involved DUI, DWI, or public intoxication charges, but from what I've seen, I think the DUI charges were all dropped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
He's also been pulled over many times for speeding, one time he was even going 74 miles per hour in a 45 zone. By April of 2017, Charlie purchased a 4,500 square foot, $1 million house in a gated community in Angua Springs Ranch in San Antonio. For the time being, Nicole and her two daughters lived in an apartment together, but after a few years of dating Charlie,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Nicole, Alex, and London all moved in with him into his home. Alex and London lived in the home during the weekdays while staying with their fathers on the weekends. Together, they seemed like they were living a very luxurious lifestyle. In addition to this $1 million home, Charlie owned a Maserati and a Range Rover. Nicole was known to keep a very tidy, clean home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
One of Nicole's friends went on to say that Nicole was just looking for a stable living situation and a stable relationship. That's what you look for when you get older and that's exactly what Nicole seemed like she had and what she really wanted. By all accounts, the two seemed to have a great relationship and it seemed like the perfect stable relationship that she was longing for at first.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Nicole and her daughters occasionally saw Charlie's family as well. They would go to his family's house for holidays and they would attend Bible studies together. According to Charlie, him and his family let Nicole and the girls into their home and into their hearts. However, everything changed on the morning of January 10th, 2019. Now, according to Charlie, on the evening of January 9th,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
him and Nicole had gotten into a pretty big argument. Now, I don't know if this reason for the argument has ever been reported on. I couldn't find it anywhere, but apparently this argument was pretty bad because Charlie says that after this argument, he left the home at around 10 p.m. that night to go sleep at a relative's house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Some of you may know the video that I'm talking about, some of you may not, but I ended up having to delete over 200 comments just because of the negativity that was being spread. So this is just a reminder that no matter how you feel about anybody involved in this case or any case, please don't reach out to anybody involved unless it's to say kind words of support.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
He said that that night he tried reaching out to Nicole and the girls multiple times, as well as other people, but they would not return his calls. He returned home the next morning, and what he walked into was an absolutely horrific scene.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
When he walked onto the second floor of his home, he found the bodies of 37-year-old Nicole, 16-year-old Alexa, and 10-year-old London all laying face down in the hallway, laying next to one another. Their bodies were found with pools of blood all around them and there was blood smeared all over the floors and all over the walls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Of course, right away, Charlie dialed 911 and reported that there was a suicide in his home. Police arrived shortly after at around 9 a.m. Right away when they arrived, they saw Charlie on the front lawn of the home crying and acting hysterical. However, right away, police noted that he didn't appear to have any tears in his eyes or on his face.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Upon entering the home and inspecting, police did find Nicole and her two daughters dead on the second floor of the home. Nicole was found with a single gunshot wound to her head. Alexa also died from a single gunshot wound to the head, while London died of a gunshot wound to her head and her neck. By the time police arrived on the scene, the bodies were cold and rigid to the touch.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And next to Nicole's body, police noted there was a handgun on the floor. When police came back outside from inspecting the home, they saw Charlie across the street hugging someone. He was then placed in their patrol car and questioned, which is standard practice when someone is present at a crime scene.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
This is when he told police the story about him leaving that night after the two got into an argument. Again, he told police that all night he was trying to contact the three as well as others, but nobody would answer him. And I don't think it's been released ever who these other people were that he was trying to contact that he's talking about.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Police then took his phone and his wallet and he was transported to the police station for further questioning. But other than what I just stated now, I don't really know anything else about what he said to police about what happened. Of course, an autopsy was done on all three bodies. And the medical examiner ruled Alexa and London's deaths as homicides while ruling Nicole's death as a suicide.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
They also determined that the two girls died before Nicole did. So the assumption here that they're making and what they basically ruled was that Nicole took the lives of her two young daughters before taking her own life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
I will note, however, that the medical examiner has declined to make the full report or the results of the toxicology screen public because they said that releasing this information could interfere with the ongoing investigation. Obviously, this news devastated everybody who knew Nicole, Alexa, and London.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Not only were they having to deal with the fact that they were all dead, but nobody around Nicole believed that she had the capability of taking the lives of herself and her children. She was making so many plans for her future. She had just enrolled London in singing classes and she was excitingly expecting a visit from her son that weekend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Friends and family of Nicole say that she was so very proud of her daughters and who they were growing up to be. Her brother said that it's crazy for anybody to think that she could kill her two daughters.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar announced that they are investigating the case but stated that calling someone a murderer of their own children is the worst thing that you could ever accuse someone of. Everybody's so confused on what really happened. All people want to do is mourn the lives lost and remember them for all of the amazing people that they were.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
And please, with any case, any true crime video, think before you comment. Let's get into today's case. Today, we are going to be discussing the deaths of Nicole Olson, Alexa Montez, and London Brubiscus. Nicole Olson was born May 27, 1981, to her parents Rick Carl and McSheryl Olson, and by all accounts, Nicole had a pretty rough time growing up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Alexa's boyfriend at the time made an absolutely heartbreaking post on Twitter about Alexa. He wrote, quote,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
on january 10th 2019 a part of me was taken through thick and thin it was us against the world now i have to face this world alone i know that you will be my guardian angel and guide me through it alexa denise montes you will be my forever and always i love you obviously having to accept that a mother shot her two daughters and then herself is very difficult and nobody would want to believe that nicole is capable of any of this but it's not just that it's
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
simply hard to believe. There is some evidence that may point to all of this not being what it seems. It came out that five total phone calls were made from Nicole's phone the night that this happened. Apparently, the first phone call was made to Charlie's mother, who did not answer the phone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
The remaining four calls were made to 911, but three of the calls were disconnected before the dispatcher could even answer. One of the calls was connected to a dispatcher, but Salazar has not released the details of this phone call. But they did say that these calls were too short for them to locate where the person was calling from.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Salazar said, quote, What we found was that while we did know that there was a disconnected phone call from that number, We don't know where that number is calling from. So all we know is that we have a drop call from that cell phone number. Normal protocols is to call that phone number back. But if we don't know exactly where the phone is located, then we don't know where to dispatch to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
The way the system works was that it just was not engaged long enough for us to be able to attach a GPS positioning to that phone call. There was also more information that came out that led investigators to believe that she was getting ready to leave Charlie's house and maybe even start a new life with the girls just before their deaths.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
Investigators found an email on Nicole's computer that she got the day that they believe she died. This email was from the Grand Dominion Apartments about six miles away from Charlie's home. The email was basically sent to reach out to them to see how the apartment search was going and also stated, I have a three-bedroom floor plan available that you loved for your move-in time frame.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
So beyond this in terms of investigative information and confirmed information, That's pretty much all we have. I know that there's probably a ton of information going on behind the scenes that we just don't know about because this is still an ongoing case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
What REALLY Happened to Nichol Olsen, Alexa Montez, and London Bribiescas?
But there have been some interviews with friends and others who knew Nicole that shed a bit of a light on how things were going with Charlie and Nicole's relationship. So one friend reported that in May of 2017, Nicole showed up for a video shoot for Cava de Cole and she had a bruised eye, but she was trying to wear makeup to cover it up. She insisted to everybody who asked that she was fine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the case that I have for you all today is a little bit of a complex case with a ton of different people involved. So it will be a longer video and there will be a lot to discuss. So this case involves the deaths unfortunately of many different individuals who are all connected within a family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then, Kenneth Roden was found to have been shot one time in the right eye. Gary Roden was found to have been shot three times in the head, being described as being in close range, while Chris Sr. actually had the worst injuries. He had injuries that indicated that he fought with his attacker, and he ended up being shot nine times to his head, torso, and arms.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
The medical examiner believes that Gary and Chris Sr. were actually murdered at around 11 p.m. on Thursday, April 21st, the night before their bodies were found. Most family members were thought to have been killed while they were sleeping, with a few exceptions that I will discuss later, in an execution-style shooting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They were all thought to have been killed in the middle of the night starting late April 21st going into April 22nd, 2016. Now, most of the forensic evidence and blood evidence that police focused on was the evidence found in Gary and Chris Sr. 's property.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
at the home that gary and chris senior lived in it was on a larger property in a rural area around the trailer there were several cars a lot of land a semi truck and a shed within the home of gary and chris senior investigators found patterns of blood spatter and stains all throughout the trailer
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
including on the ceilings they believed that blood evidence showed that at least one of the bodies believed to be chris senior's was originally shot in the living room and then moved for a final time to the bedroom where they were ultimately found
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
blood evidence also showed multiple shoe prints where someone tracked blood all throughout the trailer including near a path of blood which showed that the person was walking along the path as they dragged the body from the living room to the kitchen and then to the bedroom then they said that they found bullet holes within the door frame that leads into the trailer and in the walls of the trailer which made investigators believe
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
that the door was probably open when someone started, which made investigators believe that the door was probably open when someone started firing from the door area on the front porch. Then they found several bullets or bullet fragments within the living room bedroom on the front porch and then one in the kitchen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then, despite Bobby Joe saying that the recliner in the living room had been moved, investigators said that they found no other evidence of a struggle within the home. They found no knocked over furniture, no displaced photos or wall hangings. They also swabbed for DNA from the doorknob of the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I know the names are going to get confusing, but bear with me. I will call the Hannahs by their middle names as well so you can differentiate the two of them. So Frankie had a three-year-old son who was born to another woman, and then Hannah Hazel and Frankie, they had a six-month-old baby boy of their own. Both children lived with them and they were present at the time of the incident.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Various areas of blood pooling or spatter, items of clothing found within the home, as well as the bullets that they found. But none of that DNA came back with a hit. Then on a different building at the property, police found a door with the handle broken off. So that door was now like stuck open. Above the door on the outside, there was a wall-mounted surveillance camera.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They saw that the cables from this camera led inside of this building, which were attached to other cameras, which were also supposed to be connected to some sort of recording device to store the data from what the cameras had picked up. But police found that all of the wires were unhooked and there was no recording device.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, it looked like whoever broke in and entered knew about this camera and to avoid being captured on film, they took the recording device. Police did take DNA from several other areas outside of the main trailer, such as these cords, the cameras, a Mountain Dew bottle that they had found, as well as cigarette butts that were found outside.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
but all of the DNA that they found was just coming back as belonging to the victims. They were not able to identify a perpetrator with any of this DNA. Then, upon searching the property around the trailer, investigators discovered three sites spread among four locations, which police described as marijuana grow operations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They said that they found a sophisticated marijuana grow site across the three properties that investigators said was obvious that they were growing to sell. They weren't just growing marijuana in a garden in their home for their own personal use.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
it was clear that they were involved in some sort of criminal activity and that they were selling this marijuana so the first theory that investigators pondered was whether these killings could be related to a drug cartel did the family have cartel connections that they needed to look into was there an issue with drug dealing gone wrong here they weren't totally sure of what to make of this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They did find evidence that made them believe that there may have been more than one shooter involved in this, once again, due to the different type of bullets and bullet casings found at the crime scenes and within the victims. But by October of 2016, police announced that they no longer believed that this was any sort of cartel-style killing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
This was like an execution-style killing, and again, with the marijuana grow, they thought that this was a possibility for a few months there. But now they believed that whoever was responsible, that they were locals to the area. They said that the killers had to be familiar with the land around the properties as well as the properties themselves. based on the evidence that they found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But after announcing this, months passed and police seemed like they just weren't getting anywhere. They couldn't find any usable DNA evidence. They had all of this blood evidence and bullet casings and they literally had this entire scene that told a story of exactly what happened. They literally had four different crime scenes to work with
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
but they just weren't getting anywhere and people in this small rural area were getting antsy. Police warned that the people that did this were still out there and because they didn't have a motive, they wanted people to remain vigilant and keep on the lookout to make sure that they weren't the next ones victimized.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But by June of 2017, police went to the public to ask them for information about any sort of interactions, conversations, dealings, or transactions that they may have had with four different members of the Wagner family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I will discuss more of that later. But Hannah Hazel was described as a doting mother to her six-month-old baby and she described Frankie Roden as the love of her life. 19-year-old Hannah Mae Roden worked as a CNA and she was on her way to graduating high school in May of 2016.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
The members of this family mentioned by police were 47-year-old George Wagner III, who went by Billy, his wife, 48-year-old Angela Wagner, and their two children, 27-year-old George Wagner IV and 26-year-old Edward Wagner, who went by Jake. As I briefly mentioned before, Jake Wagner is the father of Hannah Mae Roden's daughter, Sophie,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And at the time, they were going through a custody battle for Sophie. Police asked the public for information regarding any interactions with the members of this family, specifically regarding information on vehicles, firearms, and ammunition. Now, a little bit more about Jake and Hannah Mae's relationship. Hannah Mae met Jake when she was 13 years old, and Jake was 18 years old.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, already, red flag city. A legal adult preying on a 13-year-old girl. You can argue with me all you want, but an 18-year-old with a 13-year-old is wrong. And it is grooming, in my opinion, and in a lot of opinions. I think that that is absolutely wrong, and that is... Not okay. But either way, by the time Hannah Mae was 15 years old, she was pregnant with Sophie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Shortly after Sophie was born, Hannah Mae and Jake did break up. Family members of Hannah's allege that there was abuse happening from Jake to Hannah during their relationship. There is a little bit of proof to this, but obviously Jake denies this. Then it turned out that there were questions regarding the paternity of Hannah's newborn, Kylie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, as we know, Hannah Hazel Gilley is the fiancé of Frankie Roden, Hannah Mae's brother. But Hannah Hazel's brother, Charlie Gilley, also dated Hannah Mae Roden. So he said that there was basically a 50-50 chance that Kylie belonged to him, while Jake Wagner said that there was a 50-50 chance that Kylie belonged to him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Both men took paternity tests and it came back that Charlie Gilley is Kylie's biological father. According to court documents, the Rodin family said that the Wagner family tried to get Hannah Mae to sign away her parental rights of Sophie to Jake just weeks before her murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then, 19 days before the murders, Jake's maternal grandmother, Rita Newcomb, she allegedly forged a custody document in the case. During the whole custody battle, Jake alleged that Sophie was being abused during the times that she was with her mother. Now, the family originally lived on a property on Peterson Road in Peebles, Ohio, located about 15 miles away from where the Rodens all lived.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But after the murders took place, the entire family up and left, moving all the way to Alaska. They said that they were very close with the Roden family. They saw Hannah as a daughter and Chris Sr. as a brother. They said that they were all just devastated from the murders and they moved away because they're trying to move on from all of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But as the investigation continued with the Wagners, police discovered that the custody battle between Jake and Hannah Mae was even more intense than they originally thought. Going back all the way to November of 2013, Jake was insistent on Hannah moving in with his family and raising Sophie with him and his family, but she refused.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
She had two daughters of her own, a two-year-old daughter named Sophia, who was born to a man named Jake Wagner, who she was battling for custody at the time that all of this took place. Then she also had a five-day-old infant named Kylie, who did live with her. We will discuss the fathers of both of these children later in the video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Hannah saw Jake trying to get her to live with him and his family as a way to control her. Jake wrote in one text, quote, Hannah, I'm telling you right now to make a choice and make it now. If you do this, it's over. I'll take Sophie and if I have to by force. I love you with all my heart. If you love me and Sophie, you will make the right choice. I want you to live with me and Sophie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
That don't mean that we have to stay at my house all the time, but she will live wherever I am. He told Hannah that he's not trying to control her, that he wanted to build a house and that he needs a job. He said that he's not living with Hannah and her brother because quote, at least no one at my house would hurt a baby or you. So I'm living at my place till I build a house with Sophie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
You can live with me. If someone freaks out, we will leave and come back when it's calmed down. These types of conversations continued over the next two years with Hannah continuously refusing to live with Jake and his family. By March of 2015, Hannah texted Jake saying, I don't want to be with you. You hurt me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
It was alleged that Jake had threatened Hannah, chased her, and strangled her at one point. It was thought that he even threatened to kill her, saying that he would, quote, put her body where it would never be found. After that, that is when the couple split up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
jake tried to get hannah to sign papers which would mean that she would split custody with him jake and his brother george for whatever reason but she refused to sign these papers she wrote in one facebook message to a friend in december of 2015 saying they will have to kill me first regarding him having full custody of their daughter others who knew the wagner family described them as a very close family who lived together their entire lives
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They worked together, they were homeschooled together, and they commingled their money together and voted as a group over everything. Now, like I said about a year before the murders in June of 2017, that is when police asked the public for help with information regarding the Wagner family. but they didn't name them suspects or anything like that at that time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
However, by November 13th, 2018, police announced that they finally had made arrests in connection to the horrific murders. Police announced that they actually arrested six members of the Wagner family, all for their alleged connection to the Rodin family murders, which was eventually being called the Pike County Massacre.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They released the indictments, which charged four members of the Wagner family, including 47-year-old Billy Wagner, 48-year-old Angela Wagner, 27-year-old George Wagner IV, and 26-year-old Jake Wagner on charges of aggravated murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then they arrested 66-year-old Rita Newcomb, Angela's mother, and 77-year-old Frederico Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, with charges of obstructing justice and perjury. Police alleged that the family all worked together to murder the members of the Rodin family all over this custody battle with Sophie. Police allege that Jake became obsessed with having custody of Sophie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
It got to the point where he just wanted full control over Sophie and Hannah and he would not see it any other way. That is what is being alleged here. It was said that the entire family talked about the plan. They all voted on it together and ultimately decided to carry it out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Police showed that Angela actually hacked into Hannah's Facebook account, which showed the message that Hannah sent to another family friend, which said that the Wagners would have to kill her before she would ever relinquish custody of her daughter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Hannah Mae was described as a loving mother to her two daughters, and she did whatever she could to care for them to the best of her ability. 16-year-old Chris Roden Jr. was a freshman at Piketon High School. He had just recently gotten his driver's license, and again, Hannah Mae, her five-day-old infant, Kylie, Chris Jr., and Dana all lived together in one trailer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
It showed that Angela had actually been like hacking into their accounts and reading their messages and saying what they were doing for quite some time before she even saw that message. It was alleged that after that, that is when there was this family vote.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then the family spent the next four months methodically planning out the executions of eight family members so they could all guarantee that the Wagner family would get custody of Sophie. Based on that, police were able to obtain a search warrant for the Wagner property.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Based on their findings, police alleged that each different family member played a different role in the plan to murder the rodents.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They said that Angela went to the store to get her son's new athletic shoes to wear during the killings, probably so that they could get rid of them and not be connected to any of their current shoes that they owned, so that should they leave footprints, which as we know they did, You know, they weren't able to track down the shoe prints or whatever they thought would come out of buying new shoes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But police were able to track down the shoes that Angela bought from Walmart. And they did match those shoe prints to the prints that they found in the blood within the home. So I don't believe that they were able to find the shoes that they actually wore to like physically see them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But they were able to go to that Walmart, find out what shoes they bought, and those were a match to the prints that were found within the Rodin's properties. George Wagner also bought a new truck that they would specifically only use on the night of the murders so that they could avoid detection. And so like the truck wouldn't be connected to a truck that they were already known to have.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So like if people in the community saw them driving this truck, let's say at like 1 a.m. after committing the murders, That no one could be like an eyewitness and be like, hey, I saw the Wagner's truck driving on this road at this time and that was suspicious. That's why they bought this brand new truck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So the family started by tracking and studying all of the habits and movements and routines that each member of the Rodin family had. and they studied the layouts of their homes and surrounding properties. The sons had also bought guns and practiced shooting them to see if the shots could be heard from a distance, and if so, how far away the shots could be heard.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, police were able to search the trees around their property, and they found several trees with bullet fragments in them, which matched the bullets that were found at the rodents' homes. Then, in March of 2016, the month before the murders, Jake went and bought silencer parts to build silencers to use during the killings, which again he did use.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They bought ammo, magazine clips, brass catchers, and even a bug detector to prepare for the murders. They studied any surveillance that the properties had, including the pets at the home, the video surveillance, and they tampered with home security systems and even cut their phone lines.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then police found three different weapons within the Wagner home that the family attempted to cut into pieces and burn before ultimately burying them in cement within five gallon buckets that they then hid in the pond behind their property. A special firearms examiner was able to extract the pieces of these guns out of the buckets. He reconstructed them and tested them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
The casings from these guns did match the shell casings that were found at the home. Then police found out that Jake and George both hid in the truck together on the night of the murders while they allege that Billy went into the home of Chris Roden Sr. Apparently, Billy went into Chris' home under the guise of doing some sort of drug deal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Then when, you know, the family got there, Chris was obviously expecting to only see Billy there. But instead, Jake, George, and Billy all ambushed him after hiding out in the truck. So, using all of that evidence, police were able to make arrests. Now, the Wagner family had actually moved back to the continental U.S. in 2018.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
44-year-old Kenneth Roden was Christopher Sr. 's brother. He loved motorcycles and he was described as a large husky bear of a man. He woke up at 4 30 a.m every single day and traveled to Columbus, Ohio each day to work his job at a utility company. He lived in a camper located at 799 Left Fork Road about 15 minutes away from where Christopher Roden Sr. and the rest of the family lived.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, by November 13th, 2018, the six members of the Wagner family suspected of involvement, they were all arrested. By November 28th, 2018, George entered a plea of not guilty, and in December of 2018, Billy also pled not guilty. Each man was being charged with 22 different charges. In June of 2019, the state decided to drop the charges against Billy's mother, Frederica.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They originally alleged that she had lied to a grand jury after it's believed that she hid two bulletproof vests that they think were worn by the Wagners as they murdered the rodents that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Frederica said in her statement that she actually bought these vests after the murders to protect her family, but police couldn't find any proof of the purchase from Amazon, which is where she said she originally bought them. But eventually, she was able to provide receipts from eBay, which is where she actually bought them, which did confirm that she bought them after the rodents had died.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So these charges were dropped. Then, as I mentioned, Rita Newcomb was also arrested. She was being charged with perjury, obstruction of justice, and forgery. She was accused of forging and notarizing custody documents for Jake, but the state used handwriting analysis to prove that she was the one who signed Hannah's name.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
For this, she did enter a plea deal with the prosecution in December of 2019. The other family members remained behind bars, maintaining their silence for two and a half years. During those years, Jake and his mother adamantly denied involvement in the killings, expressing grief and sorrow for the loss of the Rodin family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They said over and over and over again that all they wanted was for the real murderers to be caught. They said that the rodents were their friends, that Chris Sr. and Billy were like brothers, and that Hannah Mae was like a daughter to Angela. That was before they broke their silence in April of 2021, which came as a huge shock to everybody involved.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
At that time, both Jake and Angela offered a statement in which prosecutors cannot use for any future criminal proceedings. It can only be used at the trial for the other family members that are involved. In exchange for this, Jake pled guilty to all 23 charges that he was being charged with, and he agreed to testify against his other family members.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
He agreed to testify as long as his brother and dad would not face the death penalty if they were convicted. So, Jake told the prosecutors that he was responsible for five of the eight murders, but he did plead guilty to involvement with all eight murders. He was able to corroborate evidence, leading prosecutors to the truck that George had purchased to be used solely on the night of the murders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
He also led them to the guns that I discussed they found earlier that were within these, you know, cement blocks. In addition to the eight counts of murder, he also pled guilty to the following...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
felony conspiracy, aggravated burglary, unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance, tampering with evidence, forgery, unauthorized use of property, interception of wire and oral communications, obstruction of justice, engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity, unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, Hannah Mae Roden, who was 13 years old when the relationship began,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I'm very thankful that he was charged with this. Because of all of these charges, he was sentenced to eight consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole. Then in September of 2021, prosecutors dropped the eight murder charges against Angela, saying that she was at home with her two grandchildren at the time when the murders were committed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So instead, she pled guilty to charges of conspiracy, aggravated burglary, tampering with evidence, forgery, unauthorized use of property, and unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance. In exchange for her guilty plea, Angela was sentenced to 30 years behind bars. and she will have to testify against her family members at trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, the trial for murder for George IV started on September 12, 2022. The prosecutors talked in detail about all of the things that the Wagner family were involved with together before the murders. They had various criminal enterprises, including drug dealing, small and large-scale theft, arson, metal scrapping, and gun sales. All of the members of the Wagner family worked on this together. Then,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Now, Dana Manley Roden's sister, Bobbie Jo Manley, she was a good friend to the entire family. Chris Sr. had been helping Bobbie Jo out because she didn't have a job or any money at the time, so Chris Sr. paid Bobbie Jo to come over to their property at 4077 Union Hill Road. to help feed their dogs and chickens that they had.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They all worked together on another crime, murdering the Rodin family. They wanted to gain sole custody of Sophie. In the trial, Jake testified in a very matter-of-fact way. He said that he felt like he had no choice but to kill Hannah.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
He said that after killing Hannah, they had to kill her brother and her father as well as her uncle because Billy Wagner feared that these men would get revenge on them for Hannah's death. The other victims were killed for the sole reason that they happened to be home and they would be witnesses to the crimes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Jake said that after assembling the gun silencers, buying a phone jammer, earlier I said they cut the phone lines, but I mean like they made it impossible for them to like use their phones while they were there. They also got a bug detector to see if like, you know, there was any bugs in the house to make sure that they wouldn't be caught on video or I guess audio.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So I'm going to start the video with explaining how these individuals in this case connect and who each victim is. Let's start with the Rodin family. So 40-year-old Christopher Rodin Sr. worked as a laborer at Big Bear Lake Family Resort in Lucasville, Ohio. He shared a trailer home with his cousin, 38-year-old Gary Rodin. Gary Roden was described as being Christopher Sr. 's best friend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And then they also hacked into their social media accounts. Jake, his brother George, and their father Billy all drove to Chris Sr. 's home where they began killing them. Jake said that the plan was for George to kill Chris Sr. with a rifle, but when they got there, he would not fire. So Jake grabbed the gun and he fired instead.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Jake went on to say that he killed five of the victims with a .22 Walther Colt 1911 handgun, while his father, Billy, killed three family members with a .40 caliber Glock. He said that George actually did not kill anybody. The prosecution argued, though, that even if George did not physically kill anybody, he still was complicit in the planning, execution, and cover-up of the murders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And Ohio law dictates that complicity does make him guilty in these killings. George actually took the witness stand himself and he said that he did not have any knowledge of the murders before, during, or after the killings. He said that if his family asked him to be involved with such a thing, he would never do it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
He was involved with theft, but he would never think that his family is capable of something like murder, especially of eight people. Of course, the prosecution discussed all of the evidence that we discussed earlier, the bullets, the shoe prints, the, you know, hacking, the messages, the truck, the guns, all of that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
The trial for murder lasted almost three months and after that, the jury finally went in for their deliberations. The jury deliberated for less than a day before they came back with their verdict. They found George Wagner IV guilty on all 22 charges, including the eight charges of aggravated murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
For this, he was given life in prison without the possibility of parole, as well as 81 years for the firearm charges to be served consecutively.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Yes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
They lived on a pretty big property and they took care of different animals and they had a lot of different things going on. So she helped out with that. So on the day of Friday, April 22nd, 2016, that is exactly what she was doing when she stopped over at Chris Sr. and Gary's trailer home. However, on this day, what she discovered was absolutely shocking and completely unexpected.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
After the sentencing, several family members and friends of the Rodens all took the stand to make their statements about just how senseless of a crime this was and how it destroyed their entire family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
As for Billy Wagner, his trial is actually not expected to start until early 2024. But as of right now, he has maintained his innocence. So I guess we will have to wait and see what comes of the trial, but I am expecting the same outcome, especially given that Jake pointed to him as being like the one who pulled the trigger for three of the murders.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So that is all of the information that we have on this case at this point. I do know that the three small children involved in all of this have been given to family members. And for the sake of their privacy, I don't think police have announced who they are with, but they assured the public that those children are safe and happy with the environment that they are now in.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But either way, I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on this case. I think it's crazy just how much planning went into this murder only for it to be executed so sloppily. I think that the whole idea that this entire murder of eight people was over a custody agreement is just insane, but I can definitely see how that's the actual motive. Like, I don't think that there's some...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Other secret motive here, I do think that Jake was obsessed with getting custody of Sophie and he just wanted to control everything in his life. And I think the family just supported him for whatever reason and they felt that he deserved custody for whatever reason. Obviously, the family is going to believe their own family members.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So I think that if Jake was telling his parents and other family members that like Hannah and the Rodin family are abusing Sophie, that they would believe him and that maybe they really thought that... Sophie being in her custody was going to harm her or maybe they just really wanted this control but I cannot understand how the entire family was just on board with this entire thing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
It's definitely one of those cases that we hear of like madness of the entire family of one person going mad and the rest of them just sort of follow suit. And with this, I know that they said that the rest of Hannah's family was just collateral that, you know, Hannah was the target, but they killed her brother and her father and her uncle because they didn't want them to get revenge.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
When she arrived to Chris's property, she was immediately thrown off because she saw that the dogs which belonged inside, they were left outside. Then she noticed that Chris's truck was still in the driveway, which was weird because he was supposed to be at work at this time. But by 7.49 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But I also think that if there was a family member still living and they were caught for being involved, that one of the rodents would have been the one to get custody of Sophie. So I honestly think that that is another reason why they chose to kill
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
all of them except the children because really if they can sneak in in the middle of the night and not be detected until the next morning when someone finds the body there was absolutely no reason to kill any of the other members of the family I mean obviously there was no reason to kill them in the first place
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
but I honestly don't think that they killed like Hannah, Hazel, and Frankie because they were afraid of being caught.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I genuinely think that they went out of their way to go to all of these different properties to kill every member of the family because they knew that there was a possibility that they could be caught and if they were caught that the rodents would obviously have custody of Sophie and the other child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I think it's sick that Jake, who at one point literally thought that the five-day-old infant was his, literally shot that baby's mother in front of that baby and just left her there in the mother's blood. And I do believe that the children suffered from ruptured eardrums because of the blasts, and I'm sure that they will be traumatized for the rest of their lives even at five days old.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
You can't just live through something like that and be okay. Like, I don't think she will specifically remember it, even if nobody tells her that her parents were murdered in the way that they were, but I guarantee that for her entire life, she will just know in the back of her head that something happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
There are actually studies to show that if children are traumatized even at that young, it leaves permanent scars on them for the rest of their lives, even if they have no idea why. which honestly can even be more frustrating if you just know like, or you're a certain way or you have mental health issues because you went through something and you have no idea what you went through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I can imagine how that's like literally so frustrating. She might not know for sure that she was even there when her mother was killed, but she will have trauma and so will that six-month-old and so will that three-year-old. They did not deserve to lose their parents and watch them be murdered right in front of their faces.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And if Hannah really was breastfeeding her child at the time that she was murdered, that just takes this entire thing to a whole nother level of deranged. Again, I don't think there was any reason for Jake to go after Hannah's brother and his fiancé. That part is just sick to me. All of this is just horrible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
I honestly think that it's clear that Jake is just a controlling little douche who just wanted control over Sophie and Hannah and that's it. I think that's why this entire thing happened. It's insane, again, that the entire family, including those old women, were just okay with murdering an entire family because I know that Frederica and Rita knew. They had to know. They knew.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And I don't know if they were involved in the planning or any of the cover-up, They probably weren't, but they knew. I know for a fact that they knew. Even if they say they didn't, I know they knew. It's just so sick. The entire case is really horrible and despicable, but now I honestly want to know what you guys think.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
on that day, Bobby called 911 to report that she had just found her brother-in-law, Chris Sr., and his cousin, Gary, lying on the floor dead in the back rooms of their trailer. Now, when she initially walked into the trailer, she found blood by the front door. In the living room, she found that the recliner had been moved and she found that the rug had been bunched up and there was blood on it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
What do you think of Jake taking a plea deal and testifying against his family? What do you think about the same with Angela? What do you think about them dropping the murder charges against Angela? Do you think that George should have been convicted of murder even if he didn't pull the trigger? And how do you think Billy's trial is going to go?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And then they found a trail of blood that led to the back of the trailer, which is where the bedrooms were located. So she went into the bedrooms of the trailer and that is when she found the bodies of her brother-in-law and his cousin. They were lying on the floor of one of the bedrooms with their bodies being covered by a comforter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
There was blood absolutely everywhere and to her it looked like somebody had beaten the crap out of them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
As Bobby Joe had just discovered the bodies of her brother-in-law and his cousin, Bobby Joe and Dana's brother, James Manley, I guess he happened to pull up to the home to check on Bobby Joe since she had been gone for a while and he knew that she would be there because, again, she went there every morning to feed the livestock.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Gary was helping Christopher with some alcohol and drug issues, and the trailer that they lived in was located at 4077 Union Hill Road. Christopher Sr. 's ex-wife is 37-year-old Dana Manley Roden. She worked as a nursing assistant at Hillside Skill Nursing Rehabilitation Center in Peebles, Ohio, which the center is actually now closed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But just as he got there, he saw Bobby Joe jump in her truck and drive away. He said that he could tell just by the way that she drove her truck that something horrible had happened, so he immediately got back into his vehicle and followed behind her. So, Bobby Joe, with James following behind, went over to the other trailer at 3122 Union Hill Road to tell them what happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
But when they got there, they knocked on the door and Frankie's three-year-old son was the one who answered the door. Immediately, the little boy told Bobby Joe that daddy has a lot of blood. So, she went inside and into the bedrooms. Frankie and his fiancee, Hannah Hazel, were found lying in their beds, covered in blood, with their six-month-old infant lying in between them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And thankfully, the baby boy was not harmed, but he was covered in the blood of his parents. And thankfully, again, the three-year-old boy also was not harmed. After finding the bodies of their nephew and soon-to-be niece, as well as their brother-in-law and his cousin, Bobby Joe and James hopped back in their trucks to go over to Dana's trailer to now tell her what happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
When they got there, they found that the door had already been opened. They called Dana's name, but they got no response. They said that they then walked straight back to Dana's room, past Hannah Mae and Chris Jr. 's room, and that is when they found that Dana's room was dark, and they couldn't tell whether Dana was in her room asleep or not.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So, James went over to her bed and felt around the bed for Dana, and when he felt her, he started to pat her and roll her over to wake her up, but she was not moving. He tried to pull the pillow out from under his head, but it was stuck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
At that point, James said that he pretty much just turned around and left the room because he knew that his sister was dead because the pillow was stuck under her head and she was not moving. He didn't see her physically at that time, but I imagine if you feel someone and they feel like they're not living, you probably don't want to turn the light on to see that person dead in their bed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
So that's kind of what he said happened there. As James was walking out of the home, he did hear cries coming from five-day-old Kylie, but he couldn't bring himself to look around the trailer anymore. So he left the property and then went home to get his wife and then returned back to the trailer to go get Kylie out of the home again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
but James and his wife just could not get themselves to go back inside of that trailer, not knowing what happened, but knowing that Dana seemed to be like she was dead. So they actually flagged down the police who were on their way to the other properties after those bodies had been found and after they had called 911. And that is when they got the police to come over, the police went inside,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And they found that not only was Dana dead, but so were Chris Jr. and Hannah Mae. All of them were lying in their beds, absolutely covered in blood. And Hannah's five-day-old infant, Kylie, was in bed next to her mom with her diaper soaked in Hannah's blood. Then, like I said earlier, Hannah Mae's three-year-old daughter, Sophie, was also unharmed because she was not at the trailer at the time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
she was in custody of her father at this time. Then, after finding the bodies of these seven different family members, James just had a feeling that this might not have gone well for the entire Roden family, so James went over to Kenneth's trailer, again located 15 minutes away at 799 Left Fork Road, to go ahead and check on him. And by 1 26 p.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
She and Christopher had three children together, 20-year-old Clarence Roden, who went by Frankie, 19-year-old Hannah Mae Roden, and 16-year-old Chris Roden Jr. Dana, Hannah, and Chris Jr. all lived together in a trailer at 3122 Union Hill Road, which is just over a mile and a half away from where Chris Sr. and Gary lived.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
that same day, 911 received another call to report that an eighth body had been found. Kenneth had also been found dead in his trailer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
All right. Of course, police were dispatched to these four trailers to investigate exactly what was going on here. When investigating inside the trailer of Hannah, Hazel, and Frankie, they determined that neither the front door nor the back door had any signs of damage or forced entry.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Inside the home, the TV was still on, the nightlight was still on, and there were clothes and toys spread all throughout the trailer. Then they found that there was moss growing on the outside of the sliding glass door on the side of the trailer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
that moss did look like it had been disturbed beneath the window then there looked to be grass found on top of an air conditioning unit located right below the window outside and there was a knife jammed into the window frame as well however there was a lot of clutter and items right in front of the window including like a little nursery for chicks with lights and then a bunch of like nursery stuff all around and then just other random items with clutter
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
so this made it seem like if someone had stepped through the window to enter the home it seems like some of these items would have been disturbed but they weren't so it kind of seems like either they didn't climb through the window to gain entry into the home
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Or if they did climb through that window to gain entry, they knew those items were there and they knew to work around them as to not disturb them. Then the bodies of Frankie and Hannah Hazel were found lying in their beds with apparent gunshot wounds to their heads and no other apparent injuries.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Autopsies would later discover that Frankie was shot three times in his head, which appeared to be made at intermediate distance, meaning it seemed to be within three feet away. And then Hannah Hazel was shot five times in her face and head at close range, between three inches and three feet away.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Hannah Hazel appeared to have blood smears on her chest and other swipe marks on her body, which investigators said... was from the baby moving around and trying to climb on her mother after she had been shot which is just devastating.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Meanwhile, Frankie and his fiance, they lived in a separate trailer of their own nearby Chris Sr. 20-year-old Frankie worked at a local sawmill and occasionally he worked with his dad at Big Bear Lake Family Resort. He was an avid hunter and fisherman and he loved going to the demolition derby. Frankie was engaged to a 20-year-old named Hannah Hazel Gilley.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Hannah Hazel was also found wearing a nursing bra that was unclipped on one side which told investigators that she may have been nursing her baby when she was shot to death. Once their bodies were removed from the home and sent to the medical examiner's office, Investigators found five different cartridge casings from a rim strike bullet in or near the bed where they were shot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
And on those bullets, they saw the letters REM stamped on the end, meaning that they were Remington brand bullets.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
Across the room near the bedroom door, they found another bullet on the ground, but this was still a live, unfired round, which had markings that showed that it belonged to a different brand, meaning that there was more than one gun used in this crime, or at least present at this crime.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Rhoden Family Massacre // A Family Plots to MURDER Another ENTIRE Family?!
After the autopsy, investigators determined that Hannah Hazel and Frankie had been shot with a .22 caliber gun, both at relatively close range. Then, the other autopsies for Dana found that she was shot five times in her head, Hannah Mae was found shot two times in her head, and Chris Roden Jr. had been shot four times to his head, with two shots being to the very top of his head.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Eli loved to sit on his dad's shoulders, wanting to be up there whenever he could. Others described that there was just this special bond between Tori and Eli, where you knew that they just belonged together. Eli wurde mit Townes-Brock-Syndrom geboren, welches ein rarer Genetisches Verhältnis ist, das mehrere verschiedene Teile seines Körpers beeinflusst.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Und auch binnen Tagen des Besuches konnte sie nicht sogar auf ihr bestes Verhalten reagieren. Der literal erste Tag, an dem Eli mit seiner Mutter heimgeschickt wurde, CPS got an email from the school which said that Jalissa was driving recklessly when she dropped off and picked up Eli.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
In the email, one school staff member wrote, Another teacher in 6th grade watched Jalissa come pick up Eli and she said that the way mom pulled in, the amount of speed and recklessness that she was driving gave her a huge pit in her stomach and made it hard for her to feel comfortable sending Eli off with mom. Teachers who don't know Eli or his story are all addressing large concerns.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Dann, zehn Tage später, am 30. Dezember, schrieb der verabschiedete Verteidigte an, dass er die Trial-Home-Versuche beenden muss. Damals wusste der Verteidigte über Jalissa, die die Schwesterfamilie beschloss, und sie sagte auch, dass Jalissa ständig anrufte, um die Besuche mit Elias Vater zu verabschieden. Dann, als die Besuche zwischen Eli und seinem Vater nicht verabschiedet wurden,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Jalissa verabschiedete sich für einen weiteren Versuch, sich gegen Tori zu schützen, und sagte, dass er sie und Eli physisch verabschiedet hatte. Während des E-Mails mit den Anwesenden der Anwesenden schrieb The Guardian, Quote, Ich fühle mich so, als müssten wir die Reise nach Hause verabschieden, weil sie mir nicht stabil erscheint, und das riskiert Eli.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Dies sind die gleichen Gedanken über ihre mentale Gesundheit, die dieses Fall mitgebracht hat, und es hat nicht verbessert. Am gleichen Tag, am 30. Dezember, am gleichen Tag, als dieses E-Mail veröffentlicht wurde, Beth hatte eine andere zerstörende Interaktion mit Jalissa. Jalissa war auf dem Telefon, um Beth über die Verteidigungsordnung zu erzählen, die sie gegen Tory gefordert hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Und Beth hat Jalissa gesagt, dass das Staat keine Sorgen über Tory hatte. Als sie das hörten, wurde Jalissa enttäuscht und hängte mit Beth zusammen. Then, by January 19th, when another social worker stopped by to drop Eli off after the visit with his father, Jalissa slammed the door in the social worker's face and would not let her look inside of the apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
This case worker also emailed with Beth Denner, saying, "...I think Jalissa thinks she has Eli back with no strings attached. Last week she grabbed my arm and this week when I dropped Eli off, she slammed the door in my face."
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
A few days after this email, on February 2nd, this case worker emailed Beth again, saying, Well, it's good to know that Jalissa remains consistent with slamming the door in my face. She opens the door enough so Eli can get in, then slam. She does not want me looking in her apartment, that's for sure.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
That same month, Jalissa missed even more parenting classes to the point that she was kicked out again by mid-January. Dann hat CPI gemerkt, dass Julissa ihnen über ihr Mental-Health-Programm lügen wollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Sie hat CPS geemailt und gesagt, dass sie ihr Programm aufgehört hat und keine Hilfen mehr benötigte, aber der Programmleiter hat auch zu CPS gesprochen und ihnen gesagt, dass das einfach nicht wahr war. Sie sagten auch, dass sie nicht glaubten, dass Jalissa mit ihren Therapeuten wahrhaft war und dass sie immer neue Therapeuten suchte, die ihre ganze Geschichte nicht wussten. Auch mit all dem.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Es kann an Körperschäden führen, an schweren Hörverlusten, an Augenabnormalitäten, an Herzschlägen, an Fußabnormalitäten und an genitalen Malfunktionen. Die Auswirkungen dieses Verhältnisses sind von Person zu Person groß, und ca. 10% derjenigen mit diesem Verhältnis haben auch eine leichte Lernuntersuchung bemerkt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Auch mit diesen E-Mails, diesen Verletzungen, den Lügen, dem schrecklichen Fahren. All of the other red flags. Beth Denner did not think that there were any issues. In an email, she wrote, "...despite the ongoing concerns regarding Ms. Thaler's behavior, the county reunified her with her son for a trial home visit on December 20th, 2021.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
There is no current indication that her son is physically unsafe in her care." Sie hat Eli regelmäßig zu Doktoren- und täglichen Therapien eingeladen. Dann hat Beth entschieden, dass sie nach zwei Monaten normaler Drogenprüfung, sie von den randomen Drogenprüfungen entfernt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Also, ich glaube, zwei Monate nach Jahren und Jahren und Jahren und Jahren und Jahren und Jahren von Drogenverbrechen ist genug, um zu beweisen, dass sie gut ist. Und nach dem Verlangen ihrer echten Drogen- und Therapie-Vereinigungen. Sie ist in Ordnung. Zwei Monate sauber. Du bist gut. Du bist gut zu gehen. Laut Beth. By February, Eli's behaviors started to change.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
His teachers began to notice that this one happy, sweet, energetic, loving young boy started to become aggressive. And he even lashed out and punched another boy at school. The teacher was concerned, so she emailed Beth with the concern. She wrote, quote, I asked each student to give me an example of someone being mean to them on the playground or in school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Eli proceeded to tell me that his mom pushes him. Other students seemed shocked by this example. We then discussed the importance of telling a trusted adult like a teacher or a principal if an adult is hurting you. To this, Beth responded, I appreciate the update and it's interesting that he would make that statement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
It's not something that CPS would take as maltreatment report to assess, unfortunately. However, I do want you to keep documenting everything. That same month, Eli's therapist emailed Beth to let her know that Julissa had become confrontational with the therapist and when that happened, Eli became scared and hid in the cabinet from his mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Then, in early March, there was yet another report from Eli's school. In this email, it was said that Eli told the teacher, my mom is hurting me. The teacher asked what she was doing, to which Eli said that she grabbed his wrists and squeezed him hard. There is no record of any response, so it seemed that CPS did nothing. By that same month in March, Tory filed for custody of his son.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
After he did that, of course, Jalissa filed for another order of protection against Tory. She was saying the same accusations that Beth and other CPS workers had acknowledged they believed were false. After this, Beth wrote to Jennifer Jackson saying, She's so mentally ill. Ugh. I think the second we close, it's just going to be report after report of false abuse allegations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
She's starting the process already. Yet still, Beth and Jennifer still requested to a judge that they close the case. Beth Denner wrote to the judge, "...the kid has been going to school. She cooperated with a visit for dad last weekend. Kiddo is still going to therapy. That's basically what she's required to do at this point."
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Eli's court-appointed guardian emailed Beth Denner, saying, "...I'm submitting a report that will say my concerns about closing the case yet, realizing that the concerns don't rise to the level of child protection matter." Dann ist es auf den Gericht zu entscheiden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Ich kann es einfach nicht zu Ende sagen, ohne auf den Rekord zu gehen, diese Fragen zu beantworten, wie sie seine mentale Gesundheit beeinflusst. Dann haben sie eine Beratung am 30. März für die Behandlung. Und bei der Beratung hat Eli's legaler Berater den Gerichten erzählt, dass Jalissa versucht hat, Eli zu isolieren, dass sie versucht hat, ihn von einer Besuchung mit seinem Vater zu vermeiden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Some people with the disorder may suffer greatly from the symptoms, but most people will go on to live a normal, fulfilled life with a normal life expectancy. Because of his condition, Eli wore hearing aids, he had flat feet and some of his toes overlapped. und er musste regelmäßige Check-Ups durch sein ganzes Leben gehen, um die Progression seiner Behinderung zu beobachten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
and that she was filing these false abuse allegations. She stated straight out that Eli is not safe in his mother's care. The judge acknowledged that Jalissa was doing everything in her power to prevent Tori from having visitation or parenting time. He stated that he is concerned with her behaviors here and he denied CPS's request to close the case. Then he scheduled another hearing for May.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Now, I guess in Minnesota, when there is a child protection case open, the state won't look into custody requests from parents. So because of this, the state put Tories custody request on hold until the protection case was closed. So during this time, the state only considers whether or not Eli is safe to return home with Julissa, not necessarily who the best parent is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
So at that point, some people were trying to say that they should get the case closed, damit sie den Prozess starten können, um Eli mit seinem Vater zu treffen. Danach, bevor das nächste Gespräch stattfand, sah es aus, als ob Beth Denner wirklich müde war, mit Jalissa zu handeln. Und für mich, glaube ich, war sie lange zu müde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
The fact that Beth knew how mentally unstable Jalissa was, yet she said that she's still meeting the requirements for having Eli, that says to me that she just wanted the case to be over so that she could stop dealing with it. Egal wie, in einem E-Mail hat Beth einem anderen Mitarbeiter erzählt, dass sie, wenn sie Eli von Jalissa holen will, einfach einen Fett holen wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Also hat ein anderer Mitarbeiter namens Amy beschlossen, Eli zu holen. Als sie ihn holte, sagte sie, dass Eli scharfe Kreise unter seinen Augen hatte. He looked dirty and he looked like he hadn't showered in days. Eli told Amy that he had been up the entire night before, that he had been driving around in the car all night with his mom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
The same day that Amy was picking Eli up, Josie, Torys then girlfriend, texted Amy and asked her if she had picked up Eli. Hi, this is Josie. Were you able to pick him up? Amy said, I've got him in my car. I'm about to leave their apartment, so I'll be in Hudson in an hour. Josie said, thank you. Amy said, they pulled up in a car. Eli said, they were driving around all night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Josy said, I bet she lost her apartment. You'll report that to Beth, right? Amy said, definitely. Josy said, I parked by the welcome sign for McDonald's. I do have to run in and use the restroom quickly in case I'm not in the car. Amy said, okay, we just pulled in two. Josy said, any chance she told you when the last time she gave him his medicine was or what she gave him?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Amy said, no, she didn't say. I'm assuming you're talking about the Tylenol. She just stated that if he gets a fever to give him some. I'm going to assume she hadn't given him any unless Eli said differently. She seemed so disorganized and disheveled. It took her a bit to gather up what few things from her car that I gave you. I've never seen Eli look this way before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
I can call or text her if you'd like and ask. Josie said, I haven't either. And she said, no, it's fine. I was just wondering what she was giving him. He just seemed out of it a little himself. Not sure if it's because she gave him cough medicine or something or he's really tired. I'm just not sure. He doesn't have a fever or complains, so I'm not planning on giving him anything anytime soon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Amy said, I'm sure if they've been sleeping in her car for a few nights or driving around, as Eli said, it could have just been pure exhaustion from that. I can't imagine what she's putting that child through right now. God knows what she may have given him. I sent Beth Denner and the GAL an email of what I saw this morning and what Eli reported to me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Aber egal, welche Schwierigkeiten er erfasste, hat nichts ihn von dem glücklichen, energetischen Junge, der er immer war, gehalten. Er liebte es, Bubblen zu schlagen, auf dem Park zu schwimmen und jeden Dienstagabend gingen Eli und Tori zu Carbons Pizzeria und Eli bekam eine riesige Platte von Mehlballen, die er liebte. Eli hatte auch nur letztens gelernt, mit seinem Vater zu fischen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Josie said, this whole situation breaks my heart for Eli and Tori. Thank you. We won't quit fighting for Eli. Amy said, breaks my heart too. He deserves a good life with the two of you. I will do anything I can to help you guys. Josie said, I just don't understand why this has gone on so long. Laws need to change. Amy said, Josie said, Josie said,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Ehrlich gesagt, wollen wir nur, dass dieser Chip-Case geschlossen wird, damit wir mit der Behandlung im Familiengericht umgehen können, wo jemand tatsächlich das Beste für Eli machen kann. Amy sagte, das ist wahrscheinlich das Beste an diesem Punkt, weil die Macht, die auf der Chip-Seite ist, nichts macht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Ich bete, dass Tori endlich Behandlung bekommen kann, wenn der Fall in den Familiengericht geht. Letztendlich, wie enttäuschend ist das, dass andere Sozialarbeiter, die Beth kennen und mit ihr interagieren, literally sagen, dass sie nur schlau ist.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Either way, after this conversation, Amy emailed Beth and Eli's guardian saying, quote, Eli reported to me this morning that he and mom had spent the night driving around. When I questioned it and asked him about it, he told me that they did not sleep at the apartment, but that they were just driving around all night. Neither the Guardian nor Beth informed the courts of this new information.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
The two of them had filed a request to close the case together and by May 10th the case was closed by a judge. So it does seem at this point that people did want the case closed so that family courts could deal with it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
But it seemed that the courts were just dragging their feet on all of this because by May 20th, 10 days after the case had closed and 5 months into the trial home visit, everything came to a head. It seems that 10 days is a long time for him to stay in her custody. So I don't know what was happening with the courts, but clearly... It took a long time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
But on this day, May 20th, police were conducting a routine traffic stop to a Chevrolet Impala that they found driving with one of the front tires missing. It was just driving on the right rim of the car. So, when the officers stopped the car, they found that Julissa was the one driving. At this point, she was clearly disheveled and she was acting abnormally.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Officers noted that not only was the front tire of the car missing, but the back window of the car was broken as well and there appeared to be blood on Julissa's hand, face and in her hair. And then officers also noted a shotgun shell as well as a spent shell casing in the car. Then they noticed what looked to be blood inside of the car and a bullet hole in the back seat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
When she was asked about the blood on her body, She told the officers that all of that blood was there from removing a tampon. Then, when officers pressed her about what was all over the back seat, she said that she had just purchased deer meat from an unknown butcher overnight and then returned to see her AA sponsor that next morning. None of it makes sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
But either way, due to the state of the car, the police felt that they had a reasonable suspicion to search the car and obviously determined that it was not safe to drive. So officers tried to have Julissa detained while they searched the car, but she became impatient and uncooperative and she refused to sit in the back of the police car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Tori sagte, dass er originally einen kleinen Fischboden für Eli bekommen hat, aber anstattdessen hat er versucht, seinen Vater einen größeren zu benutzen, also hat er es versucht und er hat es auf seinen ersten Kasten bekommen. He caught more fish than Tory did. He was a natural. Eli attended Shirley Kelly Primary School in Mound, Minnesota. There he was popular with the other kids.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
So they sent her home while they took in the car to search it. Und nach der Suche nach dem Trunk des Autos, fanden die Polizei den Körper eines jungen Jungs, der zu Tod geschossen wurde, mit einem Blanket und einer Waffe, die auch im Trunk des Autos war. Dann, in der Rückseite des Autos, fanden sie mehr Blut und was sich als Gehirnmatter aussah. All throughout the backseat of the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
So when police went to Julissa's apartment, of course, by the time they got there, she was gone. So police entered her home and found that the washing machine was running and in that washing machine police found the clothes that Julissa had been wearing at the time of the traffic stop. At that point, police knew that she had to be on foot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
They found surveillance video from her apartment, which showed her leaving the apartment with her boyfriend while carrying a backpack with her. So they were able to quickly track her down and they stopped her and arrested her. When they found her on foot, she appeared to have blood and what looked like brain matter in her hair.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
After questioning some witnesses in that area, one citizen reported seeing Julissa and her car stop at a gas station right before this traffic stop. And it said that it looked like she was parked near the dumpsters. So police went and searched in that dumpster that was at the gas station. And inside they found a backpack, blood, bones and what appeared to be brain matter all in that dumpster.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
From that dumpster police were able to track the movements of the car using the tracks that the damage from the rim, from driving on the rim of the car left on the road. It literally left tracks for where she went. Nach dem Fahrrad fahren, haben die Arbeiter mehrere verschiedene Bereiche gefunden, wo sie Blut und Gehirnmatter in verschiedenen Trashcans und Dumpstern entfernt haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
In einem Dumpster fand die Polizei ein Kindesbooster-Seat, das in Blut gefüllt war, und es sah so aus, als hätte das Booster-Seat eine bemerkenswerte Schadensersatz erhoben, die anscheinend mit einem Blast aus einem Schottengewehr abhängig war. After that, police went ahead and questioned a close friend of Julissas.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
This friend told the officers that within the past week, Julissa had suddenly become interested in learning how to use a gun. So, Julissa went to the store to purchase a shotgun and over the next two days, they went to the gun range together. Dann hat ein Anwesender an der lokalen Sporting-Gut-Store den Polizisten berichtet, dass Jalissa am 19.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Mai Angehörige für Schellen, die das größte Loch in etwas schlagen würden, gefragt haben. Dann hat sie 40 Runden von dieser Schotten-Ammunition gekauft. Dann, natürlich, nachdem sie den Körper in der Ecke des Autos gefunden hat, wurde der Körper an den Mediziner für eine Autopsie gesendet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
And of course, it was confirmed that the body belonged to sweet, loving, energetic, adorable six-year-old Eli Hart. The autopsy found that Eli had been shot to his head and torso many times, up to nine times. He had been shot nine times. Natürlich war es klar, dass Jalissa diejenige war, die ihr sechsjähriges Kind neunmal erschossen und ihn ermordet hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Sie wurde also verhaftet und mit zweitgrößtem Mord verhaftet und sie wurde in die Gefängnis genommen, als die Polizei ihre Untersuchung weitergab. Jedoch, als die Polizei ihre Untersuchung weitergab, fanden sie Beweise darauf, dass dies tatsächlich ein deutlich geplanter, premeditierter Mord war. Nach der Suche über Jalissas Internet-Search-Historie, fanden die Polizei mehrere Interesse-Searches.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
These included how to keep a child away from another parent with visitation, how to fake AM insurance claim, car damage, does a doctor's note prevent a child from parent visitation, how to fake being home to the cops, most powerful knockout drug, how much whiskey to give a baby, how much blood can a six-year-old lose, qualifying accidental deaths. Most expensive life insurance for child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
He loved being social with the other children. He loved talking and playing with the other kids. He was very outgoing and he had tons of friends who adored him. Eli loved seeing fire trucks and he had dreams of someday becoming a firefighter. Die Beziehung zwischen Elias Eltern, Tori und Julissa war eine zerstörerische. Julissa selbst hatte eine ziemlich scharfe Geschichte von Anfang an.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
How much does life insurance pay for dead child? How to keep a child home from school for a month. Child life insurance policy. Qualifying accidental deaths. Does life insurance cover drowning? How to commit crime and blame child. What length is allowed to saw off a shotgun barrel? Direction to gun clubs shooting ranges. So, these are all of the internet searches that she made.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
It also turned out that Julissa attempted to take out five different life insurance policies in Eli's name. With all of the evidence that we discussed earlier with the custody battles, the struggles with drugs and mental health, the clear evidence of abuse and neglect, the blood, gun, and the body in the car,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
The Google searches, everything put together, clearly this was first degree premeditated murder. So, the trial for murder started in February of 2023, and Jalissa was being charged with first degree murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Of course, the prosecution basically argued that there was a financial motive for the murder, as well as simply trying to keep Eli away from his father for the simple reason of her being a vindictive piece of human garbage. They didn't say that, I'm saying that, but they might as well have said that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
The defense basically just said that she didn't murder her son, that she loved her son and that she had absolutely no reason to murder him. They talked about how Julissa was planning a future with Eli, that she even planned to take him to Disneyland soon. Oh my goodness, Disneyland. She could not have done it. They were going to Disney soon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
When asked about the Google searches, the defense tried to claim that she was actually trying to get Eli to donate his blood to the Red Cross, which could explain the question about how much blood a six-year-old can lose, as if the Red Cross doesn't know that when he goes to donate. She needs to make sure they don't take all this blood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
But honestly, I don't think they have much of an explanation for anything else. The defense basically said, yeah, Julissa is guilty of something. Etwas, aber nicht mit dem, mit dem sie verurteilt wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Elias Vater hat den Stand genommen, um zu sprechen, wie viel Eli es für ihn bedeutet, dass alles, was Jalissa versucht hat, war, seinen Sohn von ihr wegzunehmen, für absolut keinen Grund, dass jederzeit er versucht hat, die Behandlung zu bekommen, die er so hart versucht hat, dass sie nur einen Befehl gegen ihn verurteilen würde, um jede und alle Beratungen zu verhindern.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
And after the case was finally closed and maybe he would finally be considered for custody, she took the first chance that she got to murder her son in the most horrific and brutal way imaginable. The one person that this child should absolutely trust the most. She ripped his life away from him by shooting him over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
War das furchtbar? Weil das neunmal war. Das waren so viele Male, wie sie ihren Sohn erschossen hat. Neunmal. Eine große Schotten, die nahe an der Grenze war, war nicht genug. Sie brauchte neunmal, um das sechsjährige Baby abzulösen. Sie wollte wissen, was das größte Loch in etwas schießen kann, und das war nicht genug. Sie brauchte es achtmal mehrmals nach dem Schießen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
That's what she did to her son. So, at the end of the trial, just recently, by May 20th of 2023, the jury went off for their deliberations, and of course, they found Julissa guilty in the first-degree murder of Eli Hart.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
After sentencing, multiple family members took the stand to talk about just how much this death has affected them, how CPS had failed them so many times, and they did so, as Julissa sat there, wiping her tears away, as if she felt bad for everything
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Laut Gerichtsschriften hat Julissa angefangen, Alkohol zu benutzen, als sie 13 war, und sie hatte seit 14 Jahren eine missbrauchbare Adderall-Preskripte. Und um die gleiche Zeit begann sie, Weide zu trinken. Dann, als sie 16 war, begann sie, Opioide zu verbreiten. Als sie 20 war, begann sie, Benzodiazepine zu benutzen. Und als sie 21 war, begann sie, LSD fast täglich zu benutzen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
At her sentencing hearing, she was given the sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. Then she was given a moment to speak after receiving her sentence. And she said, I'm innocent. F you all. You're all garbage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Während dieser Zeit wurde sie auch mit zwei Persönlichkeitsverletzungen und einem Verbrechungsverletzungsverletzungen behandelt. I'm not exactly sure how long Julissa and Tori were together or if they were ever actually together before having Eli or after having him. But what we do know is that Julissa's mental health and drug abuse did not improve after Eli was born.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Sehr klassisch. Sehr klassisches Verhalten von jemandem, der das Körper ihres Kindes in ihrem Auto hatte. Ja, du bist unnötig. Nachdem Tore eine 75.000-Dollar-Fallschutz-Losung gegen die Dakota County Social Services verurteilt hat, um Eli zu seiner Mutter zurückzukehren, nachdem er Red Flag, nach Red Flag, nach Red Flag, nach Red Flag ignorierte,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Und ich weiß noch nicht wirklich den Status dieses Verbrechens, aber ich hoffe sicherlich, dass er deutlich mehr als 75.000 Dollar gewonnen hat, weil er viel, viel mehr verdient als das.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Die Tatsache, dass all diese massiven, glänzenden roten Flaggen, dass sie blödsinnig nicht getan hat, was sie tun sollte, die Drogen-Tests zu ignorieren, aus der Parenting-Klasse ausgeschlagen zu werden, nicht in ihre Therapie-Sessionen zu gehen, all diese Dinge, die Tatsache, dass all das nur ignoriert wurde, ist nicht nur furchtbar, sondern es ist furchtbar.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Du kannst literally see Beth just getting tired of dealing with Julissa and instead of using that to realize that Eli needs to be with his dad, with his foster parents or someone else, literally anyone else in the world, she said, let me just get this case closed ASAP. Let's just get this boy back with his abusive, neglectful, piece of shit mother so I don't have to deal with her anymore.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
This six-year-old little boy can deal with the craziness and abuse. Shame on you, Beth Denner. Shame on you. I hope everybody who granted this low-life garbage custody lays awake in bed every single night knowing that they murdered this sweet, loving young boy. They did this. Everybody who allowed Jalissa to stay with Eli is responsible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
And my heart just breaks for the people in this case who did try. Who did try to help this sweet little boy. My heart breaks for his father and his soon to be stepmother. The people who truly cared for him. They lost everything. Alles. Sie haben alles verloren, als sie Eli in der schrecklichsten und brutalsten Weise verloren haben, die sie möglicherweise verloren hätten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
When Eli was only a year and a half old, Child Protective Services got a report that Julissa had been delusional and despondent. Als sie antworteten, fanden sie, dass Julissa fasziniert war, dass ein Fisch ihren Sohn attackieren wollte. Aber nach diesem Video hat sie sich für ihre mentale Gesundheit verabschiedet. Also hat CPS den Fall geschlossen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Natürlich müssen die Regeln ändern. Es sollte nicht nur darum gehen, ob er okay ist, mit seiner Mutter zu sein. Es sollte immer darum gehen, wer der beste Fitt für das Kind ist. Nicht nur, ob er zurückgehen kann zu ihrem verletzten, verletzten Vater. It should always be about what is best for the child, not what is best for the parent.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
And if the parent is showing clear signs that they're just disregarding everything that they're supposed to be doing, two months of being clean is not enough. It should be a year. It should be a year of consistency, not...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Neun Monate oder zehn Monate lang, wo man die falsche Sache ständig macht und dann zwei Monate, wo man etwas macht, was relativ gut ist, um zu entscheiden, dass das Kind jetzt einfach mit diesem Vater zurückgehen muss. Es ist absolut schrecklich und es macht absolut keinen Sinn und es ist absolut furchtbar. Aber das ist alles, was ich für den Fall habe.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Offensichtlich wird mir dieses Fall gefeuert und ich kann nur hier sitzen und über die Unrechtlichkeiten in diesem Fall für Stunden sprechen. But I know that all of you get it. I know that you guys are just as angry as I am. I know that you're just as heartbroken as I am. And I know that we all agree that it should have never happened this way.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
And that everybody who was complicit in this is guilty. And I hope there's more done. I hope there are charges brought against the people who are responsible for this young boy being in the custody of his mother. I hope something is done. I hope something is done. And I will let you all know if something is done. But for now, that is where the case sits.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
So that's where I'm going to leave the case for now. Again, I could just sit here for hours just ranting and raving about how horrible this whole case is, how I'm happy this mother is locked up for life. I hope she's having a horrible, horrible time in prison. I hope she is... von anderen Müttern verletzt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Ich hoffe, sie kriegt den Brunnen der absolut schlimmsten möglichen Situation für jeden Gefangenen. Keine Schande daran. Sie muss nicht die gleiche Luft wie jemand anderes auf dieser Erde atmen, nachdem sie es ihrem kleinen Sohn für wirklich keinen Grund getan hat, außer nur, um ihn vom Vater wegzuhalten. Und ich denke, darum hat sie es getan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Und ich denke, Lebensversicherung war ein zweiter Vorteil. Aber sie hat nicht mal die Lebensversicherung bekommen. Also war es klar, sie wollte ihn vom Vater weghalten. Und Es ist nur, ich habe gesagt, dass ich nicht darüber reden würde, aber hier bin ich. Also, ich werde es da beenden. Das Herz geht an Eli und alle, die ihn liebten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Hallo alle, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück zu einem anderen True Crime Video. Also, der Fall, den ich für euch heute habe, ist einer, der euch angreifen wird. Es wird euren Blut erhitzen, weil das, was passiert ist, niemals passieren sollte. Es sollte niemals so gehen, wie es war und wir werden sehen, wie schlimm dieses Kind verletzt wurde. Und es ist furchtbar.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Das sollte nicht geschehen und ich werde euch alle aufmerksam machen, wenn etwas anderes von diesem Fall kommt, in Bezug auf Anforderungen oder etwas anderes, das mit den Arbeitern, die in diesem Fall involviert waren, gemacht wird. Aber das ist, wo ich heute das Video beenden werde. Wenn dir dieses Video gefallen hat, dann lass dir bitte einen Daumen nach oben und abonniere meinen Kanal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Ich veröffentliche neue Verbrechen und Geheimnisse-Videos jede Woche. Don't forget to go ahead and turn that notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you follow me on Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Bye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
In 2019 hat sie Tori verurteilt, dass sie eine Bombe in ihrem Auto geplant hat. Als sie das beurteilt hat, haben die Polizei eine Wasserbottel voller Zähne gefunden. Aber das war genug, um Jalissa gegen Tori eine Verabschiedung anzunehmen. Das machte es so, dass er sie nicht mehr kontaktieren konnte. Aber dadurch wurde sie auch von Eli einzigartig verabschiedet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Von 2020 bis 2021 hat Jalissa mehrere weitere psychische Veränderungen erlebt, um Eli mit den Folgen zu verletzen. In October of 2020, law enforcement was called to her resident after she got locked out of her own place. When they got there, they found that she appeared to be unstable, so they questioned her ability to take care of her son.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
They took Jalissa into the hospital and placed her on a 72-hour hold after finding that she was in a state of delusion at the time. Then, when the officers entered the home to look around, At this time they found that there were raw eggs broken and smeared all throughout the floor. There was food all around the main floor that was in various states of rotting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
There had been a fence that was disassembled and just sitting there lying on the kitchen floor. The home was an absolute mess and filled with clutter and the officer noted that he couldn't even find Eli's clothes or his shoes and he was naked when police arrived. Then in early 2021 police responded to yet another call. This time Jalissa was found to be having paranoid delusions and hallucinations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
She said that she was hearing voices that were telling her to kill herself. When police arrived, they found that Eli once again was in a state of neglect. Eli at the time had been covered in cuts, his hair was matted and he didn't have his hearing aids. Finally, After this call, the state took five-year-old Eli away from the home and placed him into foster care.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
By January of 2021, Eli was placed into the care of Julissa's cousin Steven Kronberg and his wife Nikita. Once again at this home, Eli stayed true to himself. His caregivers reported that despite his struggles and seeing his mom go through these mental breakdowns and being neglected, living in horrific conditions, he was still this sweet, energetic, loving little boy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
During the time that Eli was staying with this family, obviously Jalissa needed to work to get better so that she could be deemed mentally healthy enough to care for her young son. She needed to get mental health treatment, be able to provide a clean and stable home environment, and she needed to prove that she could be clean of the drugs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
During this time, Tori was also trying to get custody of Eli, but the state wouldn't consider him for housing at that time. Er musste auch die Parenting-Evaluations, Mental-Health-Check-Ins und Drogen-Tests durchführen. Keiner dieser Tests kam mit irgendwelchen Sorgen zurück.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Aber trotzdem, trotz all dessen, sah es sich so aus, als ob Torrey nichts falsch gemacht hätte und sich besser arbeiten würde. Er wurde trotzdem nicht in Behandlung gehalten. Over the year that followed, Jalissa did everything in her power to try to get Eli back and to prevent Tori from having custody of him in any way that she could.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
She would constantly tell authorities and her caseworkers that Tori was trying to hurt her and Eli. But at the same time, she was arrested for stealing drugs from a health clinic and she tested positive for drugs such as Methadone and Oxycontin.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Es ist ein wirklich, wirklich furchtbarer Fall. Und ich vertreibe diese Art von Fällen nicht, weil sie so schwer zu sprechen sind. Aber gleichzeitig müssen diese Fälle immer noch diskutiert werden, weil sie so bedrohlich sind. So without any further delay, let's just get into the case because there is a lot to discuss here. Eli Hart was born to Tori Hart and Julissa Thaler.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Es wurde herausgefunden, dass sie vier verschiedene Male innerhalb von vier Monaten gewechselt wurde, weil sie von den Landwirten aus all diesen verschiedenen Orten ausgewandert wurde, weil sie von den Landwirten ausgewandert wurde, weil sie von den Landwirten ausgewandert wurde, weil sie von den Landwirten ausgewandert wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Sie war auch nicht aufgrund des gesetzlichen Behandlungsverfahrens, der im Oktober 2021 vollständig das Behandlungsverfahren stoppte. Und sie wurde tatsächlich aus der Parenting-Klasse ausgewählt, in der sie war, wegen ihres disruptiven Verhaltens. Auch während des gesamten Jahres hat Jalissa weiter Behandlungen gegen Tori gemacht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Aber während dieser Zeit, während er im Pflegehaus war, waren Both Jalissa und Tori mit Eli zu besuchen. Und während dieser Zeit begann ein Fortschritt. Zuerst erzählte Eli den Arbeiter, dass Jalissa nicht glücklich war. Er erzählte ihnen, dass Jalissa ihm, Eli, erzählt hat, dass sie aus Mountain Dew und Zigaretten überlebt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Er sagte, dass seine Mutter traurig und traurig ist und dass es für sie nicht recht ist. dass sie nicht schlafen kann. Sie kann essen, weil sie so traurig und traurig ist. Also sagt sie all das zu ihrem fünf- oder sechsjährigen kleinen Junge, dass sie traurig ist, dass sie nicht isst, dass sie nicht schläft, weil sie traurig ist. Klingt wie ihr Problem, nicht für ihr Kind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Dann, während einer anderen Besuch, hat Jalissa ihre Fingerknöpfe in eine Hand des Sozialverwaltungsstaffes gelegt und dann Garbage an sie gegeben. Dann, in einer Besuchung eine Woche danach, sagte der gleiche Sozialarbeiter, dass Jalissa straight-up Eli für Stunden an einem Zeitpunkt ignorierte und einfach komplett ausgerichtet aussah.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
In diesem Fall sagte der Sozialarbeiter, dass Eli mit einem Spielzeug spielte und er seine Mutter begann, ihm zu helfen, weil das Spielzeug nicht funktionierte. Er hat Jalissa immer lauter und lauter gefragt, um Hilfe, aber seine Mutter hat einfach nicht zu ihm geantwortet. Sie stand einfach direkt vor ihm, bemerkte nicht mal, dass er da war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Dann, nach einigen Minuten, hat sie ihn mit dem Spielzeug geholfen und ist dann wieder zurückgegangen, in den Raum zu schauen. Während der Besuche mit Tori sah Eli glücklich aus. He was seeming to grow a very special bond with his father.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Eli mentioned nothing to the caseworkers about any sort of abuse or neglect or anything that could point towards him being abusive or anything towards him or Julissa. Der Anwalt wusste damals, dass Jalissa all diese verschiedenen Angelegenheiten gegen Tori gemacht hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
In Minnesota, wenn es um diese Behandlungskämpfe geht und die Pflege und all das, haben die Eltern im Grunde eine Jahr, um zurück auf den Weg zu kommen, um das Kind zurückzuholen, oder sie werden permanent in ein anderes Zuhause gesetzt. So, by November of 2021, it seemed that Jalissa was finally just starting to clean up her act and was starting to meet parts of the plan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
During the time before this, she only had supervised visits, so now she was starting to have unsupervised visits with Eli, and during these visits, she always picked him up on time. Sie hat es zu Elias Therapieabläufe auf der Zeit gemacht und würde ihn immer wieder an seinem Vater-Vateres Zuhause in der Zeit auch wiederholen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Sie hat wieder Drogen-Testungen gestartet und hat sich während dieses gesamten Tages negativ getestet. Nun, der Anwalt, der Elias Fall verabschiedet hat, eine Frau namens Beth Denner, fühlte, dass sie, obwohl sie damals besser war, diese Verhältnisse nicht aufhalten könnte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Aber wegen ihres Prozesses, glaube ich, fühlte Beth, dass es gut gewesen wäre, zumindest eine unabhängige Heimreise zu beurteilen. Also bedeutet das, er würde ein paar Wochen lang mit ihr leben, während die Großeltern natürlich weiterhin Kustodien hatten. Als ich diese Entscheidung hörte, waren andere Menschen in Elis Leben sehr beschäftigt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Tori and the foster parents emailed with Beth, expressing their concern for Eli's well-being. In part, the email reads, We are just gonna forget every single bad thing that she's done these last 10 months? I guess there's not much I can do but keep my doors open for him when he will return. Because everyone in the family sees him returning to foster care if he is returned to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Beth sagte also, dass sie basically warned Alyssa, that if things didn't go well with the home visit, that they were going to place Eli with Tory and file for a transfer of custody. When pondering this idea, Beth had emailed with Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Jackson asking basically what are the requirements for them to end a trial home visit and transfer custody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Eli was described by those who knew him as the sweetest kid who was kind, compassionate and loving. Everyone who met the six-year-old little boy immediately fell in love with him. He was always happy, full of energy, full of questions, talkative and was very inquisitive. He loved to play with Matchbox cars and was just recently learning how to fish.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
In the email, Jennifer Jackson replied saying that the home visit may end in order to protect the child's health, safety or welfare. It does not need to rise to the level of endangerment. So she continued by saying, if mom shows she cannot consistently meet his needs by missing appointments, school, etc., then we will consider ending the trial home visit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
We can also consider ending the trial home visit if mom does not make her appointments and it directly affects Eli's health, safety or welfare. And I do like a backup plan with dad. So, the judge signed off on this trial home visit, which was set to start on December 22nd, which was a few weeks out at that point and it would be during his school break so that Eli wouldn't have to miss school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
During the time before the trial home visit though, Eli was allowed overnight visits with his mom. But after one of these overnight visits, Julissa was driving dangerously over 20 miles over the speed limit when she was dropping Eli back off at the foster home. This, of course, really scared Eli and he was sobbing as he got out of the car with his mom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
So because of this incident, Stephen emailed the caseworker, Beth, saying again, quote, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the decision to do this home trial. The reason Eli was taken from the home was due to mom's mental health and her mental health has not improved at all. If anything, I would say it has declined. Then, on another night, Stephen woke up at around 3 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
to find that Julissa and her roommate had driven to the home, parked outside, and were watching the home with binoculars. They had been sitting there for hours, just watching the house. So, Stephen called 911 and tried to go outside to confront Julissa, but just as he got out of the car, she drove off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Once again, Nikita, Stephens' wife, emailed Beth Denner, saying that she was scared for her family's safety. Beth replied, saying that she would get the family a restraining order banning her from having contact with them, but apparently these behaviors did not raise a red flag for Julissa being mentally unwell in general. fühlte Beth trotzdem, dass Eli mit seiner Mutter nach Hause gehen sollte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
"F**k you, I'm Innocent": Mother Murders her Son by Shooting him 9 TIMES!! The Case of Eli Hart
Und anstatt Jalissa für dieses überraschende Verhalten zu verurteilen, entscheidete Beth, dass das beste Kurs der Aktion war, Eli mit Jalissa zwei Tage zu früh nach Hause zu bringen. So, instead of punishing... Jalissa für ihr Verhalten, hat sie Eli verurteilt, ihn mit seiner Mutter heimzuschicken, die klar nicht mental fit war, um ihn zu kümmern.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. So the case that I have for you guys today is one that went unsolved for 10 years until literally last month when new information came out that finally solved this cold case. This is definitely a frustrating case to listen to because it could have been solved long before it was,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
After these searches, when police went and questioned Joel again, he did say that he had looked Kara up and that he did intend on meeting up with Kara that night and the two had communicated a lot, but they didn't end up seeing each other. He even said that at some point that night, they had decided on a separate meeting location at a nearby Waffle House but they didn't end up meeting here either.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
He admitted to police that he had used escort services several times and that he was heavily involved in drug use. He said that he was once married, but these issues with drugs as well as the fact that he was using escort services had ended the marriage. Police did try to contact his ex-wife, Christina Palmer, for an interview, but they could not reach her for the time being.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So after this, there wasn't much more movement in the case and there were a few different theories going around as to what could have happened to Kara. So the first theory was that she was involved in prostitution and that she was under a pimp.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
but at some point she decided that she didn't want a pimp anymore and she wanted to go off on her own and not be under a pimp the thought was that maybe she was trying to separate from this pimp and that he got really angry and killed her because of that the other thought going along with this was that maybe she owed her pimp money obviously we know that she didn't have much money at the time and was eating her roommate's food to survive
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
so clearly she was not in the best financial situation so the thought in this theory is that maybe Kara owed her pimp a lot of money that she could not afford to pay back so he got angry and killed her because of this for revenge or whatever other reasons the other theory was that maybe she had met up with the wrong person while she was doing these escort services
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
and that she was kidnapped and then put into human trafficking there was a lot of people who thought that it was very possible that Kara was still alive because there were a lot of public sightings of her whether it be on different websites or in public places that that could show that she was still alive but she was being controlled by whoever was trafficking her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
These were pretty much the main thoughts of what had happened to Kara for almost a decade. I also will note that at this time, for about 10 years, these cell phone records and this meeting up with Joel and all that had not been released. So people really had no information to go off of. People really just thought that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
She disappeared and they had no idea that she, you know, had actually met up with this specific person that night. I don't even know if they knew about this ad or released this ad right away. All people really knew was that she was involved in escort services and then she disappeared.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
It wasn't until almost 10 years later that police would finally be able to get the information that they really needed to finally solve this case. and bring justice to Kara and her family. So at this time, police were actually able to locate Joel's ex-wife, Christina, residing in Virginia. The FBI was asked to contact her and assist in conducting an interview with her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Kara actually ended up using heroin at this time. So Kara's parents ended up enrolling her in different alternative schools for the remainder of her high school career. She ended up really liking the school called Life Skills of Colorado Springs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
By February 1st, 2022, so very recently, FBI Special Agents Brandon Pree and Michael Willis were able to speak with Christina, who finally agreed to give them an interview and give them the information that they had been looking for. In this interview, Christina told the FBI agents that Joel's father had died in November of 2014 and that after he died,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Joel had asked Christina to go back out with her and go for a ride with her in his new truck. She agreed and during that ride, Joel told her that he needed to tell her something. She told the FBI that Joel had told her that he had hired an escort and that while they were having sex in his car, He accidentally strangled her until she died.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
He then allegedly told Christina that he took the girl's body to his parents' property where he buried her on an old horse grave in garbage bags and with lime. Joel told Christina that he felt really guilty. He felt responsible for his father's death because Joel had actually told his father that, you know, he did this to the escort. who did turn out to be Kara.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Christina told the FBI that she actually did believe that both of his parents knew exactly what happened and that they were both trying to cover for him. So basically what he's saying is that he told his parents what he did and that his father actually felt pretty bad, felt really guilty or whatever it was for trying to keep this secret.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
And maybe I don't really know exactly how he died, but maybe he had a heart attack or a stroke. or some sort of death that, you know, could have been caused by such immense stress.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
And again, this is probably why Betty led the searchers around and was basically telling them not to search these horse graves, which honestly is just pretty sick to me that all of these people withheld this information for 10 years. I don't wanna sound too judgmental because I am happy that Christina finally came forward with this information, but I don't understand why it took so long.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
because the program was set up in a way that allowed her to work at her own pace she ended up graduating from this school before getting a job as a waitress for the time being but her real dream was to become a model she was beautiful and outgoing and this seemed to be a career that could really suit her by the summer of 2012 kara's parents ended up moving to chicago illinois
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Literally eight years, after Joel told her that he murdered somebody. She didn't come forward either. She didn't voluntarily contact the police or contact the FBI to try to tell them what she knew. The FBI had to track her down and had to ask her for an interview. I really don't understand why she didn't say anything for this long time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They weren't even married anymore, so she had nothing to protect. And then for his parents, at least his mom, to deliberately steer the searchers in the wrong direction is absolutely sick. I don't want to say too much about his father because he is deceased and he can't stand up for himself or speak for himself. but his mother clearly knew.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Joel's mother literally had a dead human body on her property and she was just cool with it to try and protect their disgusting predator son. But police are also to blame for this. They should have excavated the sites whether they were told to skip it or not.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
I'm sure Betty seems like a nice lady, the type mom that, you know, bakes you cookies and gives the police officers lemonade to help them with their searches or whatever, but Clearly parents are willing to do a lot to cover up for their children. That was a bad judgment call on the police's end to just assume that this mother was going to help them and not her son.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So by February 7th, 2022 at around 6 52 AM, Joel was taken into custody on an unrelated warrant. He then agreed to speak with two detectives who interviewed him with regards to Kara's case. To these two detectives, he again admitted that he did know Kara and that he had spoken with her, but denied ever meeting up with her or being responsible for her death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
However, these detectives went in with a new tactic. The detectives asked him to identify where these horses had been buried on his parents' properties over the years. They showed Joel an aerial view of this property using Google Maps and asked him to point out these different areas. So he pointed out a couple of different areas on the property,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
but when he was asked about one specific spot that the search team had specifically labeled GPR Site 3, he said that it was a dry patch with a high spot, but there was nothing buried there. So then these two detectives also went and questioned Joel's mother, Betty. They also asked her to point to the different areas where the horses had been buried on their property.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They then pointed her to the spot labeled GPR Site 3, and asked her what was there. Betty told detectives that this site was the burial spot of her favorite horse, Milo. So that same day on February 7th, 2022, police went back to Joel's parents' property at 6995 Burgress Road and searched the area where the GPR Site 3 had previously been identified.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
As they excavated about three feet deep, they discovered a black plastic garbage bag. Upon inspection, they did find human remains within this garbage bag. These remains were thought, of course, to belong to then 19-year-old Kara Nichols. According to an affidavit that would later be filed, police summarized that they believe that on the night of October 9th, 2012,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Joel arranged to pick up Kara near her Mission Road house due to the fact that Kara only did out calls because she did not have a license or a vehicle or any other means of transportation. Sometime after Joel had picked her up, he strangled Kara until she died. Joel then transported her to his parents' property on the route that we discussed earlier.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
After getting to the property, her phone goes dead, most likely because Joel shut it off. He then buried her on his parents' property and then everything happened just as we discussed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Kara moved with them initially, but during this time, she did continue using drugs. So her parents enrolled her in a drug treatment program in Chicago, but this unfortunately didn't last very long because she had been kicked out after refusing to follow the rules. She did go back home to live with her parents in Chicago, but ultimately made the decision to move back to Colorado Springs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Going back to the spot that Betty had pointed police to in the area that was across the street that she said it was an area that Joel had access to, I almost wonder if she was originally buried there and then moved to the actual property and then buried over the horse grave there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
I don't know if Joel had just buried her there and then told his parents and then they're like, no, don't bury her there. Bury her on the horse grave. No one will ever find her that way. But then again, I don't imagine that his mom, who was clearly just trying to save him,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
would point them to an actual spot where her body once was because again seeing the fact that there was a grave there makes it pretty obvious that he may have buried someone there so i don't know what her reasoning was for you know pointing out this site obviously it probably was to throw them off so that they would see this burial site and say hey she might have been moved here i wonder where she is now or something like that but it still doesn't really make sense to me because
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
that's kind of pointing them towards Joel and not away from him so I don't really know what her reasoning was behind that I don't know if she even knew that this other like kind of human grave was there and she you know was just trying to throw them off I don't really know the reasoning for that but I do think that it's a little bit strange and I wish we knew why because yeah if she's trying to throw them off why would she point them in the direction that a human was once buried that doesn't really make any sense to me but either way after the discovery of Kara's remains
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
police swiftly arrested 46-year-old Joel Hollendorfer in connection with Kara Nichols' murder. He initially was charged with second-degree murder as well as tampering with evidence. During this initial hearing, his bond was raised from $500,000 to a million dollars. He was also deemed a flight risk and was ordered to surrender his passport.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
But then in a following hearing, his charges were up to first-degree murder based on the results of the autopsy, which I don't believe have been publicly released yet. His bond of a million dollars was also revoked, so there's no way he's going to be able to leave prison on bond. Now, obviously, we have to wonder if Joel went there with the intention to kill Kara.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
or if he truly went there for her escort services and then things got out of control and he strangled her. However, me personally, just based off of the information that we know, I do think that he went there with the intent to kill her. Knowing the timeline and the cell phone pings and just How fast this entire thing happened makes me think that he went there and then killed her pretty quickly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
There just doesn't seem to be any time for him to pick her up and then the two somehow get into an argument and then the two are engaging in sexual relations and then he accidentally strangles her. I just don't see how that would have happened in such a short period of time. Plus, they found something on the autopsy that made them up the charges to first degree murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So it must have been pretty damning. For those of you who don't know the difference, second degree murder is basically if you get really angry and you kill someone in the heat of the moment. So there is that intent to kill someone, but it wasn't planned or premeditated. First degree murder is when it was planned and premeditated. So you planned it out,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
you thought of how you were going to kill someone and then you executed it. So there must have been something in that autopsy that showed that he went there with the intention to kill her. So that is really intriguing to me and I'm really curious as to what it is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Of course, I will be following up on this case and if there is more information released on the autopsy results, I will be sharing that with all of you. And of course, once this trial happens, I will also keep you guys up to date on any new information that comes out. After the discovery of Kara's remains, her family came out with the following statement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
This definitely was not something that her parents wanted or were really okay with, They were actually very against this, but she legally was an adult at this point, so there really was nothing that they could do to prevent her from moving back. So she did ultimately move back to Colorado Springs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
It is with profound sadness and a heavy heart that we share that we were informed yesterday by authorities that our beautiful daughter's remains were found and our suspect has been arrested in the case. We are writing to express our sincere gratitude and appreciation for all of those who tirelessly gave time, money, attention, and assistance to Finding Cara over the past 10 years.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Due to the unremitting support and help from the National Women's Coalition Against Violence and Exploitation the past decade, they will continue to be by our family's side, manage this page, and be a voice for Cara as we seek justice in this case. The family spokeswoman, Michelle Bart of the National Women's Coalition Against Violence and Exploitation, also came out with a statement of her own.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
She said, quote, "'To have to write this breaks my heart. After almost 10 years, we have hoped the outcome would be different, but here we are. Cara was a daughter, sister, niece, and friend to many. Cara's life mattered in 2012 and still matters in 2022.'" Our work is not over. It's now time to see the person or people responsible for her death are brought to justice.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
We will be advocating that no matter how the defense tries to spin Kara's character. We will remind the world she was an innocent person who, no matter her lifestyle choices, she never deserved to leave us like she did. Let us remember, no matter the circumstances, Kara did nothing wrong to deserve this ending.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
She went on to say that Joel isn't the only one who should be facing charges for Kara's death. She claimed that prosecutors believe that Joel's mother, Betty, had a questionable knowledge and involvement in Kara's death. She's also upset that the people investigating this case knew about these cell phone records and the property for over a decade, but didn't do anything further to prosecute Joel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Which I agree with. The fact that they knew about these cell phone pings back in 2014 and didn't do anything further after, you know, not even excavating any of the sites that the dogs hit on is really lazy and it's really disturbing and it's really heart-wrenching, honestly. So that is where the case stands as of right now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
I'm really looking forward to seeing if anything about Joel or anything else about this crime comes out in the trial. The only really thing that we know about Joel is that he did have a criminal history of domestic violence against his ex-wife. But otherwise, we don't really know anything else about him, his family dynamic, or anything else.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So we'll just have to wait for the trial to see what comes out about all of this. My heart breaks for Kara's family who clearly loved and cared about her so very much. I can't even imagine the heartbreak knowing that police had so much information for so many years Yet, they just sat on it and didn't do anything with it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
But I'm glad that we finally have some sort of closure and the family has the answers that they've been looking for for so long. Today, we are going to be discussing the solved case of Kara Nichols. Kara Nichols was born on May 20th, 1993 to her parents Paul and Julia Nichols in Colorado Springs, Colorado. She grew up in Colorado Springs with her older brother named Terrence and a younger sister.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Plus, her brother Terrence was still living in Colorado Springs, so she would still be close to him, so she still would have family in the area. The two were very close. They were in contact with each other pretty much every single day. So Kara's parents knew that she probably still would be safe out in Colorado Springs because she did have her brother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They just let this predator walk free and live his life for 10 whole years while their daughter was in the ground buried in a horse grave. This entire thing just breaks my heart, but I'm at least happy that they now finally have the answers that they've needed. They're now able to put Kara to rest and feel comfortable knowing that the man responsible for her murder is now behind bars.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
And hopefully, he will never see the light of day ever again. As with any case that I cover that's like this one where the victim was involved in these lifestyle choices, please no hate or judgment towards Kara. As we saw in these other quotes and statements, they understand what Kara was doing. They understand that she was doing these escort services.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They understand that she was doing things that were dangerous. She was meeting up with strange men who she didn't know. The family understands these. We understand them. We all know that what she was doing put her at this risk, but that does not mean that she deserved for her life to end. She was only 19 years old.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
If we are all judged based on the decisions that we made when we were 19 years old, then none of us would look in a really good light because we do things that are risky. We do things that looking back, weren't a great idea. Not all of us are involved in, you know, escort services or things like this. But still, let's not judge a 19-year-old for her decisions.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
She clearly didn't know exactly where she wanted to go in her life. She was just trying to make money. She was just trying to make ends meet and clearly didn't quite understand the implications of being involved in this type of work.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
After moving back to Colorado Springs, Kara ended up moving into a house with three other men. Of course, at first, this definitely seemed like something she should not be doing. Her mother was initially very against this as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
But I guess sort of after getting to know these men better, Julia's concerns were put to rest and she wasn't too worried about her being roommates with these men anymore. She thought that these men seemed nice and they seemed completely harmless.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
and before anybody wants to make snap decisions or be judgmental i've actually had four male roommates in my life i've had a time where it was me and two male roommates all men who i was not dating and they were all amazing different guys who i definitely would be roommates with again who i'm very close friends with so it's not always a bad idea to have male roommates especially if they're great guys who you know so again i'm just bringing this up so people don't go
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
straight to that and say, well, this is something that definitely she should not have done because who are we to say? While living back in Colorado Springs, Kara seemed to be doing it pretty well for herself. She was trying to get back to her old waitressing job and was starting to build her modeling portfolio and was starting to look more into different modeling jobs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
She started uploading headshots into the Modeling Mayhem website to hopefully get into contact with someone who could get her into some more modeling work. This website is basically built so that you can upload your pictures and then get into contact with different photographers and other professional staff to help jumpstart your modeling career.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
But while doing all of this, Kara did fall into some pretty severe financial issues and started to rely on her roommates and started borrowing food from them. So on October 9th, 2012, Kara told one of her roommates that she had landed a modeling gig in Denver. Now, Kara did not have her driver's license, so she had to rely on others to drive her around and take her where she needed to be.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So that night, she told her roommate that a friend was actually going to pick her up and drive her to this modeling gig. So she left, and a few minutes later, the roommate looked outside and saw a dark-colored sedan driving away from their house. The roommate, of course, assumed that this was the friend who was coming to pick up Kara for her modeling gig.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
That same night, at around 11 45 p.m., Kara got into contact with her brother Terrence to let him know about her modeling gig in Denver. But after this, she didn't get back into contact with him the rest of the night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Then, by the time October 10th came around, Terrence assumed that he would have heard back from Kara about how things went with this modeling gig and, you know, just to hear about her night. but she did not get back into contact with him. So later that day on October 10th, he tried calling his sister, but his calls were just going straight to voicemail.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
That obviously means that she either turned off her phone or her phone had died. This was very odd to him because like I said, the two were in contact with each other pretty much every single day. So then by October 11th, when Terrence still had not heard from Kara, he grew more and more concerned, so he decided to pay her roommates a visit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
When he got there, Kara's roommates told him that they had not seen Kara since the night of October 9th, the same night of this modeling gig. They said that she hadn't been home that night and that none of them had seen or heard from her. So Terrance went in her room to look around and he immediately noticed Kara's cell phone charger, her laptop, her professional makeup case,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
her purse, her ID, and $300 worth of cash were all still in her bedroom. This absolutely sent Terrence into a panic because he knew that she would not have left these items behind if she were planning on being gone for more than a day. Plus, he noticed that she had not been active at all on any of her social medias since the last time that he had contacted her and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Kara was described as being very social, having a lot of friends, and was very close with her family. She was known to love art and took private lessons in school to improve her drawing skills. She was so very talented, winning several awards in different community and school art competitions. She loved drawing sketches of models in beautiful gowns and dresses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
This was very out of character for her. So Terrence went ahead and got into contact with the El Paso Sheriff's Office to report Kara as a missing person. And of course, right away, police responded by saying that Kara is an adult. She's allowed to be missing. If she wanted to cut off her family and wanted to stay away for as long as she wanted, she's allowed to do so.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
But her family knew that this was not Kara. They knew that her not being in contact with anybody, and especially her not being active at all on social media, meant that she definitely was in some sort of danger. So Julia and Paul flew out to Colorado Springs to start their searches for Kara. When they got to her house, her parents also saw all of the personal belongings that Kara had left behind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Again, they knew that she would not leave these items behind on purpose. So her parents went back to the police to put pressure on them and to get them to take her disappearance more seriously. So after this, police finally opened their investigation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
After turning to the public for more information on Kara's disappearance and sort of digging through the internet, police discovered that Kara had actually been online and was advertising escort services for quite some time. When police found this out, the fact that she was doing escort services was the same time that Kara's parents found out as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Kara's parents had no idea, but she had been doing this for the past two years, so since she was 17 years old, so that she could make money to fund her drug use. They also found out that some of the modeling gigs that she had been involved with were actually covers for her doing escort services.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Of course, this was information that the family was unsure of of whether they wanted to release it publicly. They didn't want the public to view her any differently and they didn't want public interest in her case to decline. I actually saw a lot of different websites and articles talk about how, you know, their reservations totally hindered this entire case, slowed any tips that may come in,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
and i saw one article where the author was basically bashing the parents for not wanting to come out with this information saying, oh they think that their daughter's an angel when she's really not and they needed to tell the public about this but as we see in so many cases, the second that the public finds out that someone may have been a sex worker
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
suddenly the public doesn't care about them anymore. so i think they're totally justified in their reservations and not really knowing how to process and how to release this information. Plus, knowing how this case went down, I don't think it would have made a difference.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So they did ultimately release this information to the public, but just as they feared, public interest in Kara's case quickly declined. News outlets no longer wanted to interview Kara's parents, and the public just didn't seem as interested in helping find her. By November of 2012, police announced that they wanted to speak with two women who were believed to have been last seen with Kara.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They were both described as having brown hair, with one of them being seen with her on the day that she disappeared. Police said that these two women are not considered suspects, just persons of interest who they believe have valuable information about Kara's disappearance. One woman was thought to be involved in, you know, this whole world of escorting with Kara, but
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
However, once Kara hit her teen years, she started to act out. When she was 13 years old, she was arrested for shoplifting and was sentenced to community service. She went on to attend Rampart High School initially, but she was not handling school well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
That information was never released, you know, the connection between these two. But the other woman was thought to be someone that Kara was friends with, so they did end up releasing a photo of this woman. They did this in hopes of getting new tips and leads, and it did work.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
more people started to call in with more information police said that they followed up on any lead that they could and any tip that they got but this didn't really lead them to anything more tips were called in in the months following but none of them really panned out Kara was thought to have been spotted numerous times
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
One witness saw that she saw her pictures on an escort site based out of Las Vegas, but these pictures didn't end up being her. Another witness called in saying that he saw a man with Kara and the girl appeared to be scared and uncomfortable, but after looking more into this tip, it turned out just to be a man and his girlfriend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So, based on all of these tips that were coming in that just weren't really panning out, this case was at a standstill for quite some time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
In May, the initial detective on her case, Sheriff Cliff Porter, admitted in a publicly released recording that he didn't spend too much time looking into Kara's case and admitted that he cut corners and ignored clues that could have led them to solving Kara's case. Kara's parents subsequently released a statement saying just how upset this recording made them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They said that they were very upset about how many tips were going unnoticed and uninvestigated. They were very, very upset that the sheriff's office just didn't seem to care about her case whatsoever. So ultimately, a new investigator was assigned to Kara's case who was finally able to give this case the momentum that it needed and finally start making connections.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So after more digging, by February of 2013, police had actually found an ad that Kara had posted on October 29th, 2012 at 728 p.m. The ad was titled, Sexy New Blonde in Town 21, with a name listed that was not Kara's, and included a photo of Kara wearing some lingerie with her phone number listed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
So using this, Kara went ahead and looked into Kara's cell phone records to see who she had been in contact with on the night that she disappeared. Police found out that there were a total of eight phone calls placed with one person on October 9th, between the hours of 9.58 p.m. and 11.08 p.m., and then her phone was last used at 11.59 p.m. before all activity stopped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
When she was around 16 years old during her sophomore year of high school, her dog actually passed away, which had a really big effect on her mental health. she went into a very deep depression and started going to counseling. She was prescribed medication for her mental health struggles, but she did not like taking them because they had some pretty severe side effects.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
But for the time being, again, police did not know who this phone number belonged to. But by Wednesday, May 8th of that same year, the detective that had been assigned to Kara's case received a phone call from a man who said that the phone number who had been in contact with Kara that night belonged to him. This man identified himself as being Joel Hollendorfer, who was 38 years old at the time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
He admitted to police that he was seeking escort services on the night of October 9th, 2012, so he responded to Kara's ad. He admitted that the two had spoken and called each other several times that night,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
but he said that he was looking for an in call where he would go to the girl's location but the girl that he had been speaking to only did out calls where she comes to his location so he told police that the two of them did not end up meeting up that night so then police went ahead and used Kara's cell phone pings to track where she had traveled on the night of October 9th because again we know that she wasn't home all night we know that a friend or somebody had picked her up that night to go to this modeling gig or as we
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
you know, now no, probably an escort service. police were actually able to come up with a pretty detailed timeline of where she went on the night that she disappeared. they were able to determine that she had left her home on 6710 mission road in colorado springs at around 11 16 pm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
she then took galley road to peterson road and then headed south until she reached highway 24 and then went eastbound. she then got off highway 24 and turned northbound onto mark shuffle road. then continued north until reaching Woodman Road, and then turned westbound. She continued west until reaching Black Forest Road.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
She took this road north until reaching Vollmer Road, and then continued on Vollmer until turning east onto Burgress Road. Then, after driving on Burgress Road for about 60 seconds, her phone stopped pinging. So, using all of this information from her cell phone, police were able to determine the location that she had stopped and visited that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They found out that Joel Hollendorfer actually had 9665 Burgress Road as his parents' address. So again, he clearly lived there and she had literally driven to this area and then her cell phone stopped pinging in this exact area. So, using this, police were able to obtain a search warrant to search this property, which was executed on October 15th, 2014.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
These searches were done by multiple agencies. They used cadaver dogs as well as ground penetrating radar. Joel's mother, Betty, had actually walked the area with the members of the searches and pointed out several locations where horses and other animals had been buried on the property for the past 30 years. since they purchased this house in 1985.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
While police did notice that there were several areas of ground that had been disturbed and dogs did hit on several areas, these sites were not excavated because again, they were thought to just be animal burial sites. Then when searchers didn't find anything on this property,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
It was also thought that she could have been suffering from bipolar and possibly a borderline personality disorder. Around the same time, unfortunately, Kara started experimenting with different drugs. Again, it seemed to be one of those situations where she was just in so much emotional turmoil that she felt that using drugs was the only way to numb the pain.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
Betty suggested to police that they search a property that Joel had access to which was across the street located at 11660 Green Acres Lane. Police got into contact with the owners of this property who did give them permission to search. This search warrant was executed on October 22nd They used four cadaver dogs and put them at the four corners of the 20-acre property and then released them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED AFTER 10 YEARS: The Kara Nichols Case
They saw that all four dogs had traveled to one location, which appeared to be the site of a shallow grave. So, of course, this site was excavated. When they dug, they saw that there were roots that had been dug up at the site and the hole looked to be just about the size of a human body. but there was no body found in this grave.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
But still, Erin kept custody of the children, though Angie could visit them for six hours a week. By November of 2014, Gracie told her mother that her father was still sexually abusing her. Over the course of the next few months, now going into 2015, Gracie told her mother more and more about the abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie sagte, dass es Zeiten gab, in denen sie sehr, sehr schlau werden würde und sie nichts erinnern würde, bis sie in ihrem Vaters Bett wach würde. Sie wach würde mit ihren Beinen und ihren privaten Teilen brennen, aber sie könnte nie erinnern, warum. There was also a time where Gracie found time to FaceTime her mother without Aaron noticing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
And when doing so, she showed her mom that she had a bunch of bruises on her inner thighs, but she couldn't remember how exactly she got them. Aaron told Gracie that this was a rash from her swimming suit, but she knew that this just was not true.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Andere Angelegenheiten, die sie gesagt hat, waren, dass wenn sie und Grant mit Aaron fahren und einer von ihnen etwas gesagt hat, was Aaron erschreckt, dass er wirklich schnell anfangen würde, um sie zu erschrecken. Er würde ihnen auch sagen, dass ihr Mothers Haus nicht sicher ist. Und an einem Punkt... He told them that Angie was actually dead and they believed it for years.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Now, during this time, Aaron had received a trust fund worth over a million dollars from an aunt who had passed away. He had been receiving payments of about $100,000 per month for several months at this point. However, by April of 2015, Aaron reported to the police that Angie was not paying child support, so she was arrested.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I mention this trust fund because he clearly was making enough money so that she didn't have to pay child support. He clearly had enough to take care of his children, but he still called the police, so... Sie hat das als Threat genommen, sich ruhig zu halten über das Verbrechen, über das sie sich jetzt herausgefunden hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angie hat die folgenden drei Jahre nur versucht, Aaron zu beheben, ruhig zu bleiben und für sie und ihre Kinder zu kämpfen. Sie hat die Leute in der Gefängnisverwaltung weitergeleitet, um ihnen zu sagen, dass sie für sie und ihre Kinder gefährlich ist. Sie hat mehrere Mitglieder ihrer Kirche kontaktiert. Sie hat DCS kontaktiert und sogar Mitglieder ihrer Schule, der Grace Christian Academy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angie hat herausgefunden, dass Aaron auch andere junge Studenten in ihrer Hochschule grümmt und sie hat versucht, den Mitarbeiterinnen und Mitarbeitern darüber zu erzählen, aber sie haben ihr immer nur ausgesprochen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Im August 2018 sind Grant und Gracie weggegangen von der Wohnung, in der sie mit Aaron zum ersten Mal gelebt haben, aber Aaron hat schnell die Polizei angerufen und die beiden verabschiedet und sie zurückgebracht zu Aaron. Aaron specifically requested that the police drive them back to his house so that they would be scared and that they would learn their lesson never to disobey him ever again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie ging weiter, um ihr Bachelor und dann ihr Doktorat in der Pharmazie zu bekommen. Danach hat sie ihr eigenes Zuhause gekauft und war auf dem Weg, um eine erfüllende, tolle Leben zu leben und eine tolle Karriere zu haben. Aber in 2001 wurde Angie wieder mit einem Mann, den sie aus der Highschool kannte, kennengelernt. Ein Mann namens Aaron Solomon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
By the weekend of August 17th and 18th, 2018, Grant had a baseball tournament in North Carolina. At the same time, Angie had also filed for an emergency custody hearing, citing dependent neglect and abuse against Aaron. That weekend, Grant stayed at the tournament, but Gracie and Aaron had to return back to Tennessee for the custody hearing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
As they were driving back to Tennessee from North Carolina, Aaron booked a hotel room to stay the night, which only had one bed, even though Gracie had protested this and asked her dad specifically to get one with two beds. Gracie said that that night they had to share that bed. Und an dieser Nacht hat Aaron sie verabschiedet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Danach, als sie an die Gerichtssitzung gingen, hat Gracie dem Gericht gesagt, was ihr Vater ihr an dieser heutigen Nacht getan hat. Sie hat alles beschrieben, was in großem Detail geschehen ist. Und Gracie beschreibt, dass ihr Vorsitzender in ihr Gesicht kam und versuchte, ihr zu erzählen, dass sie nicht wirklich erinnert war, was sie gedacht hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Er hat ihr erzählt, dass ihr Vater nichts mit ihr gemacht hat und dass sie etwas erinnert, was einfach nicht geschehen ist. Wieder einmal beurteilt die Familie alle Verletzungen, die die Kinder verursacht haben. Grant hat auch einen Brief zu den Gerichten geschrieben über die Verletzungen, die er von seinem Vater beurteilt hat. Grant sagte, dass er von seinem Vater furchtbar war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sein Vater restriktierte sein Essen, restriktierte, wenn er den Kühlschrank benutzen konnte. Er ermutigte ihn, ihn fettig zu nennen und ihn ständig für Baseball zu arbeiten, ohne Abbrüche. Grant sagte, dass Aaron ihn nur als Reflexion seiner eigenen Parenting-Exzellenz interessierte, die man durch Grants Baseball-Talente sehen konnte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He said that his dad would lie about his mom, saying that she was mentally ill, but it wasn't true. He said that he had proof that she wasn't mentally ill, but the courts just would not listen. He said that him and Gracie both want to be with their mom, and that every moment that they're with their father... They are terrified.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
But at the end of it, Williamson County Circuit Court Judge Deanna Johnson dismissed the petition once again, saying that it was filed without merit. She also ruled that Angie could not file any further civil lawsuits against Aaron for a period of six years. Sie glaubte einfach nicht, was Gracie sagte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Und sie glaubte nicht, was Angie sagte und dachte, dass Angie all diese Motionen verabschiedet hat, um an Aaron zurückzukommen, für irgendeinen Grund. Gracie wurde mit ihrem Vater zurückgeschickt, um nach North Carolina zu fahren, um ihren Bruder zu holen. Als das geschehen ist, war sie nach diesem Geschehen visuell erschrocken. Visuell erschrocken, aber niemand hat geholfen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Nun, ich möchte bemerken, dass Aaron in der gleichen Kirche wie viele hohe Mitglieder ihres Gerichtssystems in ihrer Stadt in Tennessee geht, insbesondere ihr Gouverneur Bill Lee. They all attended Grace Chapel Church. Aaron had been going there for several years and his children, Gracie and Grant, went to the school within the same building.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Aaron war damals Sport-Anchor für WSMV4, die NBC News Affiliate für Nashville, Tennessee. Die beiden begannen schnell eine Beziehung und nur sechs Wochen später wurde Angie mit Grant verheiratet, der am 13. Juni 2002 geboren wurde. Nachdem das, fühlte sie, dass sie wirklich keine Wahl hatte, sondern Aaron zu verheiraten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
They were separate entities, but they were all in the same building and people at the church and at the school all sort of subscribed to the same ideologies. People at the church all thought that Aaron was a good guy who goes to church, gives back and is a great father.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Und es scheint, dass durch all diese Gerichtssitzungen, insbesondere diese hier, es gesagt wurde, dass es einen aufwändigen Bias mit all diesen verschiedenen Leuten durch die Gefängnisverwaltung, die Gerichte und die Regierungen gibt, die alle gezwungen sind, Aaron zu glauben, weil sie alle in der gleichen Kirche besuchen. therefore have the same ideologies.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Then, in this specific case, to add to that, it was said that Judge Johnson had spoken with the pastor of their church shortly before the ruling, so Angie thinks that there's some sort of bias there as well. I will speak more on this later in the video, but it's thought that this entire time, the courts and law enforcement and all of these people just thought that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angie war da draußen, um zu versuchen, an ihren Mann zurückzukommen, dass sie all diese Dinge verabschiedet hat, nur um ihn schlecht zu sehen. Und sie glaubten Aaron, weil, obwohl ihre Kinder auch diese Dinge beurteilen, er in die Kirche ging, also muss er ein guter Kerl sein.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
By May of that year, Gracie was actually set to live with a family friend under DCS care, but her father was still allowed some sort of custody. There was a picture of Grant and a friend, I believe, celebrating in court that they no longer had to live with their father, but this was very short-lived because he still had more custody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
This whole time, throughout this entire thing, Gracie had also tried speaking with staff members at her high school, Grace Christian Academy, about the abuse that her father was putting her through. However, in one day at school, the principal called Gracie into the office for a meeting, where they advised her to stop talking about the abuse in order to save her reputation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
But after finding this out, Grant had had enough. He said that he was going to stop going to school until he got a meeting with the principal. Once that meeting was granted, once again... He says, or Angie says, that they justified their actions that they were just trying to protect Gracie's reputation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Gracie also tried talking about all of this to a school counselor, but once again, nothing was done. Grant also went to the school's pastor and tried to tell him about the abuse, but once again, nobody did anything. All of this is alleged by Angie, but all of these stories came out from Gracie and Grant who told their mother about this, that...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Nobody was doing anything, despite them telling everybody that they could. All of the trusted adults that they thought they could trust, nobody was doing anything about it. So, I will once again get more into this later in the video, but that is what they allege. Then, finally, we get to the part of this case where everything comes to a head.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Am Morgen am Montag, Juli 20, 2020, hat 18-jähriger Grant eine Stunde zur Schule gefahren an der Grace Christian Academy für Baseball. An diesem Punkt, glaube ich, lebten sie mit einem Familienfreund, deshalb lebten sie so weit weg. Aber es ist wichtig zu bemerken, dass er eine Stunde gefahren hat. Am Morgen kam er in den Park und begann, sich für seine Praxis zu vorbereiten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie sagte, dass ihre Eltern sie zu verheiratet haben, Aaron zu verheiraten, sodass ihr Baby einen Vater hätte, obwohl sie auf ihr eigenes Leben vollständig einen Grant gegründet hatte. Egal, sie wurde verheiratet, nachdem sie in einer Beziehung für etwa zwei Monate war. Dann, vier Jahre später, am 17. Oktober 2006, Angie hat ihr zweites Kind geboren, eine Tochter namens Gracie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Aber nur 15 Minuten vor der Praxis wurde Grant von seinem eigenen Fahrzeug getroffen und er wurde getötet. Und es gab einen Anwesenden zu diesem Verbrechen und bis jetzt, ihr hättet es vermutet, es war Aaron. Aaron war der einzige Anwesende zu Grants gewohntem furchtbares Tod. Also, um 8.44 Uhr am gleichen Tag, rief Aaron 911 aus dem Parkzimmer, um den Verbrechen zu beurteilen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He initially said that Grant had parked his truck at his practice location at the Ward Performance Center Institute in Gallatin, Tennessee. He said that he parked his own car and was actually looking at his phone when he noticed that Grant's truck was no longer parked next to him. After that, he heard a loud crash.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He said that he then watched the truck as it started to roll back down the hill and into the ditch, hitting Grant and dragging him with the truck. When the police arrived and took his statement, he told the police at this point that he saw Grant get out of the truck, go around the truck to go to the bed of the truck and grab his baseball gear out of the bed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Dann hat er gesagt, dass er sah, dass der Truck anfängt, sich zu bewegen, und dann hat er Grant getroffen und hat Grant gedrängt und geht wieder einmal in den Dach, den Grant unterhalb des Autos in diesem Dach getroffen. In dem Anruf hat Aaron gesagt, dass es drei andere Menschen gab, die den Anruf beurteilt haben, aber es wurde nie wieder nach dem Anruf gebracht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Er hat gesagt, ich habe drei Leute hier, aber er hat später berichtet, dass er die einzige Person war, die diesen Anruf beurteilt hat. I will play this 911 call now and I'm really looking forward to hearing what all of you think about it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Als sie groß war, war Grant beschrieben als ein ehrgeiziger, talentierter junger Junge. Er war nahe seiner Mutter und besonders seiner kleinen Schwester Gracie. Er sah sich als einen Verteidiger seiner kleinen Schwester und seiner Mutter. He started playing baseball when he was only four years old and the baseball field was basically his sanctuary.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Personally, in this 911 call, I think he sounds really calm. He keeps saying that Grant is trapped, but he never actually went over to the truck and looked under it to see that he was actually trapped. There was a witness at the scene who saw things like after the
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
incident happened nobody actually saw the truck rolling over grant but there was someone who came out and saw that aaron was on the phone with the dispatchers and the witness said that he saw aaron you know standing on the top of the hill looking down at aaron from the top of the hill and that he never actually went over to the truck to see if he was really trapped or if he could you know pull him out or anything like that that is what this other witness said he said that aaron was just pacing back and forth as he was on this 911 call
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So, that's all to say that, you know, this witness basically told us his behaviors and his mannerisms during the call. And once again, he didn't actually go over to Grant to try to help him or to see if he was really stuck under there. He just sort of watched from afar. To me, in the call, he sounds very calm and collected.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He grew into a talented baseball pitcher who was being recruited by Division I schools when he was in high school. He was popular in school and he was described as a very loyal friend. However, pretty much immediately after Angie and Aaron had Grant, the relationship between them became very, very tumultuous. She reported that throughout this entire time, Aaron had many violent outbursts.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Not frantic at all like you'd expect for someone who just witnessed this truck roll over and trap his son. Once again, we can't really judge anybody based on how they respond to tragedy or how they respond to certain situations. But you'd expect a little bit more urgency in his voice, at least in my opinion. Again, you guys let me know what you hear and what you think.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
But that's just my thoughts on this call so far. Ich denke nicht, dass das richtig klingt. Ambulanzen kamen kurz nach diesem Anruf. Laut den Polizeireporten, als sie dort kamen, hatte Grant seinen Rücken unterhalb des Fronten des Fahrzeuges. Und er war zwischen den Reifen, also waren die Reifen nicht wirklich auf seine Körpergewicht. He was bleeding from his scalp, his nose and his ears.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He was initially unresponsive when they found him, but he was still breathing at the time, though he was barely alive. Paramedics removed him from the bottom of the truck, put him into the ambulance and began CPR. However, by the time they reached the hospital at 9.30 a.m., he was pronounced dead.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
According to the hospital staff, he was found to have one laceration on the back of his skull, which had been bleeding. Then he had three bruises, one to his jaw, one to his left hip and the other near his right thigh. He did have a head injury, but his cause of death was determined to be a cardiac arrest.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The police took down Aaron's report and he met with them at the hospital where Grant was and he was given paperwork to fill out. Aaron verabschiedete sich von der Autopsie von Grant und er verabschiedete sich von der Donation seiner Organe. Das Papier wurde geöffnet, bevor Angie ins Krankenhaus kam und sie wurde nicht in diese Entscheidungen berücksichtigt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angie sagte, dass das sie wirklich frustrierte, weil sie vielleicht eine Autopsie oder so wollen würde, aber auch, weil sie sagte, dass viele der Organe von Grant perfekt verwendbar waren. dass sie getötet werden könnten, um andere Menschen Leben zu retten. Aber Aaron hat entschieden, dass er die Organe nicht betreuen würde. Und das war nicht etwas, mit dem Angie verabschiedet wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Aber egal, sobald dieser Fall geöffnet wurde, hat die Polizei den Fall geschlossen und sie sind weitergegangen. Sein Tod wurde beschlossen. Ein furchtbarer Tod. Aber es gibt vieles in dieser ganzen Situation, das einfach nicht richtig sitzt mit Angie, Gracie oder ihren Unterstützern. Und ich kann absolut sehen, warum.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Zuerst, die Geschichte, dass er durch den Gras unter dem Fahrrad gedrängt wurde, macht einfach keinen Sinn mit den Verletzungen, die er verursacht hat. Er hatte nur eine Lacerierung auf der Rückseite seines Herzens und drei andere Schmerzen, wie ich gesagt habe, auf seinem Bein, seinen Hüften und seinen Hüften. Das war es.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Er hatte keine Schrauben, keine Schrecken, keine Marken, die von der Verpackung über den Boden, Steinen und Gras gedrückt wurden. Dann wissen wir, dass der Auto eine Stunde lang gedreht wurde, um an der Praxis zu kommen. Bis zu diesem Punkt würde der Auto heiß sein. Er war lange nicht da, bevor er von der Fahrt getroffen wurde, also würde der Auto immer noch heiß sein.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Yet there are no burn marks on his body. There's no sign of blood or burn marks or even scuff marks on the asphalt. There was no blood on the asphalt where he most likely would have hit his head and sustained the head injury that he was bleeding from. There was absolutely no blood anywhere on the asphalt. Here is a figure that shows Gran's height compared to the truck.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He was manipulative and did whatever he could to keep her under his control. He cheated on her numerous times as well during all of this. By 2008, Angie allegedly found out that not only was Aaron involved in multiple affairs, but she alleges that he was grooming several underage girls and hiring sex workers. By 2011 it was said that Aaron willingly stepped down from his job as a sports anchor.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Er ist 6'3 und er wurde offensichtlich auf und über von der Fahrt gedrängt, wurde untergepinnt, obwohl es berichtet wurde, dass das Gewicht der Reifen nie auf ihm war. Wenn er von der Fahrt gedrängt wurde und untergebracht wurde, würde man erwarten, dass er sich auf seinen Rücken, seinen Nacken und den Vordergrund seines Abdomins schmerzt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Dann, wenn es ihn aufgedrückt hat, würdest du erwarten, dass das ist, wo er zurückfallen würde und seinen Kopf schießen würde. Es würde nicht mehr passieren, weil, wiederum, die blöde Kraft ist, was ihn zurückfallen würde. Und er hat seinen Kopf getroffen. Und noch einmal, es gibt keine Marken oder Blut auf dem Asphalt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Du würdest erwarten, dass er von einem Kopfschmerz blutete, von dem die Hände viel bluten. Wenn du jemals jemanden gesehen hast, der mit einem kleinen Schmerz auf seinem Kopf blutet, ist es wie ein Dribbeln. Und sie sehen aus, als hätten sie einen schrecklichen, schrecklichen Schmerz.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Auch wenn es vielleicht nur ein Schmerz ist, der ziemlich schlecht ist, aber es wird nicht etwas sein, das lebensbedrohlich ist. Wenn er einen Schuss an die Rückseite von seinem Kopf bekommen hat, erwartest du, dass es Blutmarken gibt. Du würdest erwarten, dass es über den Asphalt gedrückt wird oder zumindest einen Punkt Blut, aber es gab nichts.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Dann haben wir dieses Bild der Schuhe, die Granton war, als all das stattfand. Sie sind völlig sauber. Es gibt keine Schmerzen oder Schmerzen auf seinen Schuhen oder Socken, auch wenn sein Körper verurteilt wurde durch Steine, Gras und Schmerzen. Dann haben wir die Fotos aus der Szene. Die Geschichte, wiederum, ist, dass das Auto in der Parkplatte begonnen hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
über dem Gras, das wir hier sehen, und dann endete er in der Strecke mit den Reifen auf der Wand, während er Grant's Körper drückte. Jedoch, als die EMTs kamen, fand Grant unter seinem Truck, mit seinem Körper gegenüber der Front des Trucks und seinem Kopf Richtung Gebäude.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So, if he were backed up into and dragged, he would have been hit and he would have fallen back with his head pointed towards the road. There's absolutely no way he would have fallen the other direction. So, if this is the building and this is the road and this is the way the truck is backing up, und das ist Grant, wäre er in diese Richtung gefallen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Also, wenn das sein Kopf ist, wäre es in Richtung der Straße. Aber er wurde mit seinem Kopf in Richtung des Gebäudes gefunden, also in der völlig anderen Richtung. Ich könnte definitiv sehen, wie er sich vor dem Fahrzeug gedrängt hätte, wenn das wirklich die Situation war, in der das geschehen ist. Ich könnte sehen, dass, wenn er unter dem Fahrzeug gedrängt wurde, er sich vor dem Fahrzeug nahm,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Das Teil kann ich sehen. Aber irgendwie, während er gedrängt wurde, hat dieser 6,3-Futter-Body einen kompletten 180-Turn und endete irgendwie in der völlig anderen Richtung, als wenn er getroffen wurde. Wieder einmal, um euch zu zeigen, wie verrückt das ist. People are trying to say that Grant fell this way, was dragged under the truck, and at some point during all of it, he went like this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
His body completely turned the opposite way and was found dead. Eine komplette 180, von wo er gefallen ist und wie er getroffen wurde. Das ergibt absolut keinen Sinn. Dann wieder einmal, wenn wir uns die Szenenfotos anschauen, gibt es keine Fahrradstrecke durch das Gras. Das Gras steht immer noch und sieht unverletzt aus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Egal, an welchem Angle du siehst, sieht das Gras so aus, als hätte es nicht durchgeführt worden, auch wenn ein Körper durchgeführt wurde. Then we see that there are tire marks on the sidewalk leading to the ditch. The tire marks are a clear indication that the car had driven forward onto the sidewalk.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
again there are no tire marks in the parking lot where allegedly he was dragged there's no scuff marks on the asphalt in the parking lot once again where he was allegedly dragged but there are on the sidewalks that showed that the car drove forward then they found that grant's glasses were up on the sidewalk grant always wore his glasses and he could not see without them so clearly at some point
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Er stand auf der Straße und hat seine Gläser entlassen, oder sie wurden von ihm ausgeschlagen, oder jemand hat seine Gläser von ihm genommen und ihn auf die Straße gesetzt, für irgendeinen Grund. Sie waren nicht in der Parkplatte, wo Grant allgemein von dem Auto getroffen wurde. Wieder einmal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Wenn Grant hier in der Parkplatte ist und er zurückfällt und seine Gläser auf jeden Fall wegfallen, wäre es so, als ob er fallen würde. Es macht keinen Sinn, dass seine Gläser auf ihn bleiben würden, das ganze Zeit, als er gedrängt wird, und dann, nachdem er unter dem Auto gepinnt ist, seine Gläser irgendwie aus seinem Gesicht fliegen und auf die Straße landen. Make it make sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Then we see that there is a bloody rock found next to the front driver's side door in that ditch. The one injury that Grant had where he was bleeding was when he suffered blunt force trauma to the head. Yet, as we said, there's no blood on that pavement, only on the rock in this ditch. Hatte er also seinen Kopf auf diesem Stein geschlagen, wo deutlich Blut gefunden wurde?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angi beurteilt jedoch, dass er nach unabhängigem Inhalt auf seinem Computer und Telefon verabschiedet wurde. 2014 wurde er Finanzvorsitzender für die Investitionsmanagementfirma Merrill Lynch. Durch all die Verbrechen und Probleme, die Angi beurteilt hat, hat Angi gesagt, dass sie Therapie versucht hat, aber sie hat gesagt, dass Aaron ihr keine Privatsache gegeben hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Oder hat er seinen Kopf auf dem Boden geschlagen, wie Aaron gesagt hat? Dann, wenn dieser Truck den ganzen Weg nach oben zurückgeleitet hat, erwartest du einen großen Schaden an dem Truck. Als ich diese Fotos zuerst gesehen habe, nachdem ich die Geschichte gehört habe, war das etwas, das mich sofort beeindruckt hat, als ich die Fotos gesehen habe, ohne etwas anderes zu lesen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Das Auto sieht völlig gut aus. Das Einzige, was mit dem Auto falsch ist, ist, dass der Bumper, der Rückbumper, ein wenig verletzt ist, aber das ist es. Laut Experten ist der Rückbumper auf einem Toyota Tacoma einfach brechbar. Das ist das Einzige, was die Verkäufer dieses Fahrzeugs verurteilen, dass der Rückbomber nur bei kleinen Verlusten zubereitet wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Als die EMTs an die Szene kamen, haben sie sofort einen Jack benutzt, um das Fahrzeug hochzulassen und Grants Körper von unten heraus zu bekommen. Der Jack hätte den Rückbomber mit der Wand in Kontakt bringen können und das hätte diesen sehr kleinen Schaden verursacht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Once again, the story is that it backed up all the way across the parking lot, slammed into that ditch so hard that it kept going up the other side of the ditch. It doesn't just happen that easily. You see how deep that ditch is. It's not just going to go in and slowly go back on the other side. It's going to go in, slam on the ground and come up before...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
It actually ends up on the other side of the sidewalk. It's not just going to do it gently to cause no damage. There would have been a lot more damage to that car if this was the story of it backing up and going into that ditch and ending up the way that it did. I think that the story that is being told would have caused a hell of a lot more damage to that car than we see today.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So, das ist alles, was mit der Szene falsch ist. Dann noch etwas dazu. Nach diesem Unfall wurde der Truck zurück nach Aaron's Driveway, wo es bis zum nächsten Jahr gehalten wurde. Im Februar 2021 hat Angie herausgefunden, dass dieser Truck in Nashville zu einem Schmuckhaus eingeladen wurde. Das Bild des Fahrzeuges zeigt, wie der Fahrzeug nach dem Angriff aussieht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Es gab fast keinen Schaden an dem Fahrzeug und definitiv nichts, was es ermutigen würde, es zu zerstören. Glücklicherweise konnte Angie den Fahrzeug aufhalten und nach einer Forensik-Erkennung wurde herausgefunden, dass der Angriff nicht so wie Aaron es beschrieben hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I don't know the details of that, I don't know the details of the forensic examination or who actually performed it, but that is the conclusion that Angie said that they came to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Yet through all of this history of domestic violence allegations, his son dying, his daughter claiming to be raped and abused, and the scene just not adding up, the car being found not to be consistent with the story, Grant's injuries not being consistent with the story, The Gallatin Police Department will not open up an investigation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The family believes that there is foul play at the hands of Aaron. Grant had literally just freshly turned 18, literally a month before this, and he had always stuck up for Gracie and always had full intention of doing whatever he could to protect her. Now that he was 18, he was an adult and maybe now he'd be taken more seriously in the courts and in the church.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The family thought that Aaron drove the truck over the sidewalk where Grant may have been standing and hit Grant so that he fell back and hit his head on this rock and then left the car there over him, killing Grant. All to kill Grant and stop him from exposing Aaron for the abuser that he allegedly is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He would try to come with and listen in on the sessions and he wouldn't really let her be alone for any extended amount of time. Eventually, after a few sessions with the therapist, Erin joined the therapy sessions with her. And Angie said that she was diagnosed with PTSD from all of the abuse that she had suffered all throughout her life, including when she was a child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
If you look at the scene and Grant's injuries and everything else that I told you, try to explain both scenarios in your head. Just intuitively, which one makes more sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Him being dragged across the parking lot, his whole body completely turning around and suffering no scratches, burns, bruises, and him being trapped under the car even though the tires were not pinning him under, and him dying of cardiac arrest.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Or being terrified that his dad hit him with his own truck, being struck on the sidewalk, falling in the direction that he was found, hitting his head on a rock which was found to have blood on it, and then dying of cardiac arrest because he was terrified of his abusive father. Which one makes more sense to you?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to say that the first one makes more sense than the second one. So, by May 12th of 2021, 14-year-old Gracie decided not to allow these secrets and lies to go on any further. She posted an 18-minute long video to YouTube, where she alleges everything that happened to her from the time that she was a child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I will try to put in as many clips of this as I can, so long as I don't have any copyright issues. If I can't include it in the video, of course, it will be listed down below. She states that her father is a liar, a manipulator, and violent. He has tried to kill her mom. He has hurt her. und sie glaubt, dass Aaron Grant getötet hat und sie töten wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie sagte, dass sie für die vorherigen zwei Jahre vor dem Tod von Grant Grenzen mit ihm gesetzt hat, nachdem sie mit ihm zur Therapie gegangen sind, und er hat sich eigentlich meistens mit ihnen befasst. Der Verbrechen hat sich fast alle beendet. Aber nach dem Tod war es gleich wieder da, wo es war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Gracie sagte, dass Aaron einfach an ihrem Haus aufsteht und rein kommt, um sie zu schütteln oder ihre Haare zu bewegen. Er versucht ständig, sie mit ihm nach seinem Haus zu bringen, He will find her friends and take videos of them and send them to Gracie. She said that they do have a restraining order in place, but he's not listening. He's still showing up to the school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He's still trying to get back into contact with her and she just has not been able to catch a break from him. After this video was posted, the court bench-ordered Gracie into DCF custody due to fear of psychological harm. Angie said that this is something that's pretty much completely unprecedented. Even though all she wanted was to live with her mother, to get away from her abusive father.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
und um Gerechtigkeit für ihren Bruder zu bekommen. Es gibt auch ein anderes Video auf diesem YouTube-Kanal von einem Freund von Gracies, der auch viele Dinge beurteilt, die sie weiß, die Gracie durchgeführt hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Es gibt auch ein anderes YouTube-Page, das heißt Justice for Grant, glaube ich, wo sie im Grunde die Szene und alles in verschiedenen Videos durchführen, um alle Ungleichheiten zu beurteilen, Natürlich werden beide von ihnen auch unten aufgelistet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Nachdem das Video veröffentlicht wurde, hat Aaron eine Beurteilung gegen Angie und eine Gruppe von Gracys Freunden verabschiedet, die behaupten, dass alle Beurteilungen, die Gracie in diesem Video gemacht hat, völlig falsch sind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He claimed that after several attempts at defaming Aaron in the courts, Angie took to social media to extort Aaron into giving up his custody and raising money for herself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Hallo alle, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück zu einem anderen True Crime Video. Oder wenn ihr neu hier seid, willkommen zu meinem Kanal. Also, der Fall, den ich für euch alle habe, ist heute ein ganz wichtiger. Es wird euch schreien wollen und es ist so bedrohlich, alles zu hören, was in diesem Fall passiert ist und nichts gemacht wurde und noch heute nichts gemacht wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I read the lawsuit and everything in this video that I discussed all the way from the abuse allegations from Gracie and Grant to him being diagnosed as a sex addict and a narcissist and him being fired from his sports anchor job for having inappropriate things on his computer. He said that every single bit of that information is false.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
And allegedly, Erin was diagnosed with narcissism and sex addiction. Some reports say that even though he was abusive all throughout the relationship, it was said that after Gracie was born, there was even a bigger shift. Aaron seemed angry all of the time, especially towards Grant and Angie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So that is why at the beginning of the video I made that disclaimer that all of this is alleged once again for legal purposes. None of this is true. It's all alleged based on information that I was able to find on public platforms. None of this is absolutely true. It's alleged by people involved. And Aaron claims that all of this is false.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
false angie and her team filed an appeal to this under the pretense that they have their rights to free speech and aaron did end up withdrawing his lawsuit but as of last year 2022 it is said that his legal team is planning to refile the lawsuit at a federal level so as far as i've seen this is all the information that i know about this part of the case i believe gracie is still in dcs custody and it seems like nothing
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Das betrifft die Kirche und die Schulen, die Gracie besucht hat. Nun, die Schule sagt, dass sie eigentlich keine Ahnung hatte über die Verbrechungen. Aber auf der Website der Freiheit für Gracie
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Es gibt Bildschirme von veröffentlichten Gesprächen, in denen sie beurteilt hat, dass mehrere Menschen in der Kirche, Kirche und Schule alle zu Beratungen verabschiedet haben und dass, weißt du, das ist, wo sie sagten, dass sie über die Verbrechungen von Verbrechen gesprochen haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie haben all die Dinge verurteilt, die ich in diesem Video erwähnt habe, aber es gibt Informationen, die vielleicht beurteilen können, dass sie über die Verbrechen wussten. Wenn du mehr von diesen spezifischen Bildschirmen und spezifischen Gesprächen sehen möchtest,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Klickt auf die Zeitung von der Website Freedom for Gracie und ihr seht eine sehr, sehr detaillierte Zeitung und alle Recherchen für alles, was wir in diesem Video besprochen haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Ich fühle mich, dass es ein bisschen überraschend wäre, wenn ich die Informationen durchging und dann auch eine Section hatte, in der ich die Gespräche gelesen habe und all diese verschiedenen Menschen genannt habe und über all die Recherchen gesprochen habe.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Ich gebe dir einfach die Informationen und wenn du alles konfirmieren möchtest und du willst, dass du es doppelt schaust und du willst, dass du das, was ich dir gesagt habe, schaust, gehen sie auf ihre Website und posten alle verschiedenen E-Mails und erklären sie in viel größerem Detail als ich. Egal wie, alle diese Leute verurteilen, dass sie alles über diese Angelegenheiten wussten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie verurteilen, dass sie sie ignorierten und sie verurteilen, dass sie es überhaupt wirklich wussten. Also... Das ist, wo es gerade ist. Wie gesagt, alle diese verschiedenen Menschen und Entitäten sagen, dass sie nicht wissen, was die Angelegenheiten sind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie sagen, dass sie nie über die Angelegenheiten erzählt wurden und sie verabschiedeten sich, dass sie nichts über diese Unaktion oder so gesagt haben. Sie sagten, dass nichts davon wahr ist. Sie haben auch offensichtlich verurteilt, dass sie alle zu einem anderen gesprochen haben und dass sie alle, weißt du, Aaron glauben, nur weil er in ihrer Kirche lebt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie haben all diese Angelegenheiten verurteilt. As of right now, both Gracie and her mother are both fighting for Gracie's freedom. The fact that she is still under DCS care and is still having to fight to get away from her abuser and be with her mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So, there is a whole website dedicated to this case, like I said, which details every single step in the timeline from when Angie met Aaron until now. There's a page that details the scene of Grant's death, all of the police and hospital reports, those involved in ignoring their cries for help, and information about who each person is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Dann, im Anfang von Januar 2013, ging 5-jährige kleine Gracie zu ihrer Mutter mit einigen furchtbaren Angelegenheiten. Also, für einen Zeitraum vorher würde Aaron Angie nicht anbieten, Gracie Träume zu geben, nur er könnte ihr Träume geben. Dann begann Angie zu bemerken, dass Gracie sehr überrascht werden würde und sich nicht aufs Bad nehmen würde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So if you want to find out more about this case and you want to look at everything for yourself, please make sure you go ahead and check out that website. It's a great website. I'm so impressed with whoever set it up. It's all encompassing and has everything that you need to know about this case. So if you do want more information about this case, go ahead and check out that website.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Es gibt auch eine Instagram-Page und eine GoFundMe, die noch aktiv ist. Das Geld aus der GoFundMe wird Gracie in ihren legalen Kämpfen unterstützen, als sie mit den Gerichtssystemen und DCS kämpft, um für sich und ihren Bruder Gerechtigkeit zu bekommen. If you do have anything to donate, please consider donating to her GoFundMe, which of course will be listed down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
There is also a change.org petition that is so, so close to hitting that 10,000 signatures, so please take a moment and sign the petition. It's petitioning for police to start investigating Grant's death based on the information that was initially ignored and overlooked in this investigation. So please go ahead and sign that and let people know that you still want this case investigated.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
But as of right now, that is all I know about this case. I am very, very, very, very frustrated about how all of this went down and is still going down. I don't know what I think about the courts and the school and the church all covering for Aaron. I personally believe that through all of this I don't think that they believed that he was abusive.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I think that Aaron had all of them convinced that the children are covering for their mom because she is mentally ill and is just trying to do whatever they can to make Aaron look as bad as possible. I don't want to believe that all of these people knew about the abuse and believe that he is an abuser and are still covering for him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I personally think that Aaron just has all of these people convinced that Angie is a liar and that his children are too. I personally think that Aaron has made Angie look crazy enough, crazy enough to these people to make them actually believe that she is suicidal, that she just wants to make Aaron look as bad as possible and that she wants her children in her own custody so that she can...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Gehen wir zurück zu Aaron. Ich denke persönlich, dass alle Menschen das geglaubt haben, weil sie Aaron persönlich wussten. Aber ich sehe ehrlich gesagt keinen Grund für Gracie, diese Dinge einfach zu machen. Es gibt keinen Grund, sich da draußen zu stellen, wie sie es gemacht hat und die verrückten Dinge zu diskutieren, die sie brav genug war, uns zu erzählen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Es ist schrecklich, zu denken, dass eine 14-jährige Mädchen ihre Freunde und ihre Mutter alle einfach da draußen gehen und all diese Dinge sagen, nur um den Zweck zu zerstören, jemanden zu vertrauen. Die Leute in den Gerichten, die unabhängig sind und keine Haut im Spiel haben, bestätigten, dass Angie wahrscheinlich verabschiedet worden war und so waren ihre Kinder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
People whose jobs it is to give only the facts on what they have found in their patients and using their degree and their medical expertise to come up with a conclusion. Those are the people that testified for Angie.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The fact that the courts believed the one person who had the most to lose and the most to gain, Aaron, over medical professionals who pretty much had no skin in the game other than protecting their patients, is just beyond me. The fact that you're going to believe someone who clearly is biased, obviously,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
No matter how good of a person you are, you're going to be biased and wanting your children and wanting to do whatever is best for yourself over the other person. So the fact that the courts are believing this person and people who are biased and not the people who are unbiased and it is their job to be unbiased.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
unfortunately i do think that gracie is the victim of horrible horrible abuse and a horrible system that is in place and that she truly has suffered from all of this i believe everything that she's told us and i think that we all need to be out there fighting for justice for her i also personally believe that grants death was not as aaron described it
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Und es war nicht, bis Gracie zu ihrer Mutter ging, mit diesen furchtbaren Angelegenheiten, dass Angie tatsächlich herausfinden würde, warum. Ohne sie direkt zu beurteilen, weil es sehr, sehr bedrohlich ist. Gracie hat ihrer Mutter gesagt, dass ihr Vater sie während des Badetimes sexual abgab, indem sie Soap verwendete. inside of her and that he was really, really hurting her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Ich weiß nicht, ob es eine prämeditierte Art von Sache war. Die Szene und die Tatsache, dass es dort war, wo es viele Anwesende sein könnte, und die Tatsache, dass es im breiten Sonnenschein war, macht mich daran zu denken, dass es mehr eine Art von Zeit der Heizung war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Ich denke, dass Aaron Grant dort kennengelernt hat, weil Gracie früher in ihrem Video sagte, dass Aaron an jeden von Grants Fußballspielen gehen würde, um ihn zu sehen und sicherzustellen, dass er es gut macht. Ich denke, dass Aaron und sein Vater vielleicht in Grants Fahrrad reingekommen sind, um vielleicht eine Konversation zu haben oder so etwas.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Vielleicht wollte Aaron mit Grant sprechen, oder vielleicht hat Grant seinem Vater gesagt, dass er in den Fahrrad reinkommen soll, damit sie eine persönliche Konversation haben können, um ihn zu beurteilen. Aber ich denke, dass es sowieso zu einem gewissen Zeitpunkt in dieser ganzen Sache, ich denke, dass es eine Argumentation gab.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Ich denke, dass Grant, weil er wieder frisch 18 Jahre alt wurde, literally einen Monat vorher, dass Grant seinem Vater gesagt hat, dass er ihn auslösen würde. now that people are going to take him seriously.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I think that if they had this conversation in the truck, maybe Aaron lashed out and tried to physically hurt Grant or something like that or said something that just really upset Grant and Grant got out of the truck and maybe his dad chased him down with the truck or something like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I don't know for sure, but I think somehow in all of this, Grant got out of the truck and Aaron was still driving. Again, we don't know exactly how, because Aaron's really the only person that knows how this went down. But I think that Grant at some point ended up on the sidewalk. Then Aaron was on the road and drove over the sidewalk and hit Grant head on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
um ihn in den Dach zu fallen und so getötet zu werden. Wir wissen die Details nicht. Wir wissen nicht genau, wie oder warum. Aber ich glaube, Aaron wurde auf dieser Wand getroffen und ich glaube, das war, wie er getötet wurde. Alle Beweise beweisen darauf, dass das der Fall war. Und alle Beweise beweisen direkt weg von der Situation, die Aaron beschrieben hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The fact that the scene was how it was and nothing matches up and again with all of these other accusations, it is insane to me that the police will not reopen this investigation. I don't know if they're also buddies with Aaron somehow or if they're lazy and they just don't think that there's enough to open a case or whatever.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Aber es gibt so, so, so viel zu zeigen, dass etwas anderes hier passiert. Und es muss weiter geschaut werden. Ich möchte, dass die Leute in dieser Stadt wissen, dass wir immer noch von Gracie und Grant kümmern. Die Leute da draußen müssen wissen, dass sie Unterstützer haben, die sich um das, was in diesem Fall passiert, kümmern.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Also bitte, wenn Sie diesen Fall folgen wollen und Angie und ihre Kinder unterstützen wollen, Folgt auf der Instagram-Page der Freedom for Gracie, schreibt eine Petition, abonniert ihre GoFundMe und schaut ihre Website. Lasst sie wissen, dass wir sie hören. Lasst sie wissen, dass wir sie unterstützen. Aber egal, das ist, wo ich heute das Video beenden werde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Und ich möchte wirklich, wirklich hören, was ihr auf dieses Thema denkt. Was denkt ihr über die Angelegenheiten, die Gracie gestattet hat? Do you think that Aaron truly is the abuser that his family says he is? What do you think about the church and the courts involvement in all of this? What do you think about Grant's death?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Do you think this is an accident or do you think there is more to this or do you think that it's exactly how Aaron stated it? Let me know all of your thoughts in the comments down below. But either way, if you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angie confronted Aaron about this and allegedly, now I'm going to be saying allegedly throughout pretty much the whole video, but either way, allegedly he did admit to Angie that it was true. But apparently he told Angie that if she told anybody about it, that he was going to take her children away from her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Don't forget to go ahead and turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you go ahead and follow my Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure to go ahead and send those suggestions over to my Google Doc, which will be listed down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
With that, I hope you guys have an amazing week. Stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope to see you next time. Bye!
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
At this time, Angie was starting to see her own therapist, a therapist named Dr. Reed, to try and come up with a plan to try to get away from Aaron. She started taking notes on her phone of the different incidences and emailing back and forth with her therapist to confirm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
This whole time I want to note that Gracie alleges that her grandparents or Angie's parents knew about the abuse coming from Aaron, but they continued to support him for one reason or another. And we will see more of that in just a minute. I just wanted to put that out there so when I mention what I'm going to mention next, it kind of makes more sense to you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
By May of 2013 things would come to even a worse level than they ever had been before. Now, before this Angie, Grant and Gracie all started to sleep together in the master bedroom without their father. They would also go in the master bedroom and lock themselves away whenever Aaron would have these angry outbursts. An diesem Tag, am 9.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Mai 2013, passierte das gleiche, wo er einen wütenden Ausbruch hatte und alle versuchten, sich von ihm zu entfernen, also nahm Angie sich selbst und die Kinder von Aaron in den Master-Bedroom. Aber an einem Punkt während all dessen, rief Aaron Angie in den Schlafzimmer, wo er sie verurteilt hat, an der Seite des Kopfes, und dann begann, sie zu streicheln. mit einem Hairdryer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Als all das geschah, schlug Grant in und beobachtete seinen Vater, der seine Mutter zerstörte. Er konnte also einsteigen und Aaron von der Tatsache, Angie zu töten, stoppen. Angie konnte in diesem Moment aus dem Haus rauskommen, aber weder Angie noch Grant gaben jemals eine Nachricht. Angie sagte, dass sie zu Angst hatte, es selbst zu beurteilen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Und sie sagte Grant auch nicht, dass sie jemandem erzählen soll, weil sie für seine Sicherheit auch Angst hatte. Aber es kam heraus, dass Aaron tatsächlich 911 angerufen hat, um dieses Verhalten zu beurteilen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Angie sagte, dass ihre Eltern mit Aaron gesprochen haben und das war, als sie 9-1-1 angerufen haben, um zu berichten, dass Angie ihr eigenes Leben versucht hat, sich mit dem Blutdreher-Kord zu befassen. Angie hat gesagt, dass Aaron und Angies Eltern sie ins Krankenhaus gebracht haben und sich bei dem Parthenon Centennial Hospital behandelt haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
There is so little coverage on this case that besides their own family talking about it, I haven't really seen any reports on this case at all. So I wanted to make sure I made this video, talk about this case so that everybody knows what happened and maybe with enough push, if we make enough waves, that something may happen in this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie hat sich mit der Geschichte befasst, dass Angie einfach sehr psychisch krank ist und sie versucht hat, sich selbst zu töten. Sobald sie mit dem Arzt alleine kommen konnte, hat Angie dem Arzt gesagt, dass diese Geschichte einfach nicht wahr ist. Sie hat gesagt, dass sie nicht versucht hat, ihr eigenes Leben zu nehmen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie erklärte, dass Aaron sehr verletzt war und dass er sie an der Nacht versuchte, sie zu töten. Sie hat also die Nacht im Krankenhaus geblieben und wurde berücksichtigt, dass sie einen Befehl gegen Aaron bekommen. Und sie hat ihn bekommen. Aber als sie am 11. Mai nach Hause kam, fand Angie, dass das Haus komplett leer war. Aaron und die Kinder waren alle weg.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Sie hat versucht, ihre Eltern, Aarons Eltern und Aaron zu kontaktieren. None of which would answer her repeated phone calls. The following day on May 12th, it was Mother's Day. So she was hoping that, you know, he was going to bring home the children on this day, at least to see her on Mother's Day. So she waited. But the next thing she knows, instead of Aaron and the children showing up,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The police show up at her house. It turned out that Aaron called 911 once again and told the police that Angie was suicidal. But the police here did not think that there was any sign whatsoever that she actually was suicidal. They agreed that she probably was in an abusive relationship and they left without taking any further action.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Now I'm going to read the medical report from the night that Angie spent at the hospital. It reads, These mental health records indicated that Dr. Solomon was seen at Centennial Medical Center for suicidal ideation. The record indicated that her stay was less than 24 hours.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Die psychische Bewertung beurteilte, dass Dr. Salomon von den Paramedikern gebracht wurde und mit ihrem Mann und ihren Eltern mitgebracht wurde. Die Note beurteilte, dass die Mitarbeiterin sie aus Aufmerksamkeit verabschiedet hat, trotz der verwirklichenden Präsentation von Verbrechen gegen einen Verbrechen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Die Note beurteilte, dass Dr. Salomon wahrscheinlich in einer verbrechlichen Beziehung mit ihrem Mann war. It also indicated that she was likely mistreated as a child by her parents. The admitting physician, Michael Murphy, MD, according to the chart, spoke with Dr. Salomon's outpatient psychiatrist, who stated that the plan was for Dr. Salomon to move out of the house and obtain a divorce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The chart indicated that the outpatient psychiatrist confirmed that the patient has not had a previous suicide attempt. The admitting physician documented that it does not appear that there is any evidence that the patient tried to hang herself. and I do not believe that she is in an acute mood state that would lead to suicide.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
She was admitted with the diagnosis of major depression in remission and given a global assessment of functioning score of 65. In the hospital course of the discharge summary, it was noted that the patient was telling the truth about the situation and she was in a risky situation with her husband, who appeared to possibly be volatile and violent, although this was uncertain.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The patient's parents also appeared to be unreliable sources of information. It was noted that Dr. Salomon was calm and cooperative with the assessment and admission process. The chart indicated that Dr. Salomon was not started on new medication. She was discharged on the same outpatient medication schedule.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
I do want to say as a disclaimer, everything I say in this video is alleged. None of it is confirmed. It is all my opinion or information that I found on a public website or articles. None of it is pure fact, nor am I stating it as such. I am simply using my platform to deliver information that has been alleged by the people involved in this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
So clearly, as we can see from her admitting doctors note, there was no concern for her having any sort of suicidal ideation or actions at any point. There was no concern that she was a harm to herself or anybody else around her. Klar ist die Note, dass sie in einer verletzten Situation sein könnte und dass weder ihr Mann noch ihre Eltern vertrauensvolle Anwesende seien.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
An diesem Punkt hatte Angie bereits eine Verzweiflung gegen Aaron bekommen. Aber die Tage sind übergegangen und sie hat noch nicht gehört, was von ihm oder seinen Kindern passiert ist. Sie hat immer noch die Polizei anrufen lassen, aber es scheint nicht so zu sein, dass sie viel davon tun wollten an diesem Punkt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
It actually turned out that while Angie was staying overnight at the hospital, Aaron had filed for divorce and filed an order of protection against Angie for himself and his children. And I believe it was at this point that Aaron was granted full custody of Gracie and Grant.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
For the following months, Grant and Gracie were stuck with their father while Angie fought as hard as she possibly could to get them back. Gracie would go on to say that neither of them wanted to live with Aaron. He was strict and they were in a constant state of fear due to his psychological and physical abuse. He also was strict on their diet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He allowed no sugar and I believe they could only eat meat and vegetables. A friend of Grant's said that during the first year that he lived with his father, he noticed that Grant was losing a lot of weight. He became noticeably skinny and frail and he actually lost 25 pounds that year. There was even one incident where Aaron and Grant were driving with obviously Aaron driving the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
And Grant tried to escape by jumping out of the moving car. But Aaron had grabbed Grant by the wrist so hard that Grant thought that he broke his wrist. And Gracie would go on to say that even years and years later, she noticed that Grant would often like hold his wrist, the same wrist that Aaron had grabbed, so it's very possible that he actually injured him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The hearing for divorce took place on June 21st, 2013, appearing before Judge Philip E. Smith. Aaron was represented by two attorneys named David Scott and Michael Parsley, and Angie was represented by Joni Aberthany. At the hearing, Aaron got Angie's father to testify against her and he also got Angie's sister to make a statement against her as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
However, medical experts who examined Angie testified for her, saying that they believed based on their evidence, saying that she is not suicidal, she did not try to kill herself and she is in fact the victim of domestic abuse. However, at the end of the hearing, Judge Smith ruled in Aaron's favor.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
For the following six months, Angie contacted her counselor more and more to figure out what to do now. And again, she was doing anything that she could to document any sort of abuse, neglect and manipulation that Aaron had done to them. By 2014, the courts finally allowed Angie two hours of supervised visits per week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Aaron hat Angie endlich mit den Kindern besucht und sie hat bemerkt, dass ihre Kinder nicht gut aussehen. Grant hat wieder viel Gewicht verloren und sie hat bemerkt, dass Gracies Augen riesige schwarze Taschen unter ihnen hatten. Clearly, these children were suffering, they were tired, and the physical signs were clearly there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The courts told Angie that she couldn't have any actual parenting time with her children until she got a full psychiatric evaluation, which she did. The report said that there is ample evidence that Angie is a fully capable parent. The report reads, quote, There is no data to indicate that Dr. Solomon is at risk of harming her children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
Mit all dem gesagt, werden wir heute über den Tod von Grant Solomon und den abhängigen Verbrechen von Gracie Solomon sprechen. Dieser Fall beginnt mit der Mutter von Grant und Gracie, Angie. Angie wuchs in einem Haus, das weniger als ideal war. Doch durch das konnte sie überleben. Sie ist auf Basketball gewachsen und hatte eine wunderschöne Stimme.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
The collateral sources, her self-report and the report of her husband, contain no information that suggests she might be abusive, neglectful or harmful to the children. Then Dr. Reed, the psychiatrist who had been evaluating and treating Angie for years,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
FATHER K*LLS SON & ABUSES DAUGHTER AND STILL WALKS FREE?! The Case of Grant and Gracie Solomon
He told the courts that her prognosis is excellent and that Erin has manipulated the courts into thinking that her mental health was a lot worse than it actually was. He told the courts that the children had made multiple comments, both of them about the abuse that they had suffered at the hands of Erin.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video. So the video that I have for you guys today is one of the most tragic random acts of violence that I've pretty much ever covered in a case. I know I say that all of these cases are absolutely so frustrating, but this one is very frustrating for a different reason.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Sia remembers that her and her younger brother just got done picking up food from Benihana when she got a call from one of Bella's friends. The friend asked if she had talked to her sister lately, saying maybe she should try and call her, and obviously she did. but she wasn't able to get a hold of her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
However, after 10 years after this amicable divorce, they did get married once again for five years before they divorced once again for good. Bella and Lucia, who actually goes by Sia, described their childhoods as being pretty hectic just because of all the fighting and arguing that was happening within their household.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Then Sia actually checked the location on Bella's phone, which showed that she was still at Darian's apartment. Then another friend contacted Sia again saying that she should probably contact Darian's family. Then they sent her a link to an article that talked about a couple being shot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
One person died and one person was gravely injured and this took place in the same neighborhood that obviously Sia knew Bella lived. At that point, Sia just happened to be next door to the Target that her mother was actually at and her mother was at the Target buying Bella her birthday present. So she called her mom to go meet her at Denver Health, which of course she did.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
All they knew at this point was that there was a shooting in their neighborhood and that one person was dead and one person survived and was in the hospital. They didn't know who was who, but obviously Bella's family was hoping to find her at the hospital, but that is when they found out that it was actually Darian who was in surgery.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
At this point, Sia, Anna, and now Joshua, they all went over to the crime scene where Bella had been shot. They knew at that point that this probably did not end well for her and that she probably was the one who had been killed. It was said in one article that I found that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
that Bella's mother had seen an article which had an overhead view of the crime scene and the body was covered up by a tarp but her feet were sticking out and Anna immediately recognized the pedicure that Bella had gotten for her birthday so she knew that it was Bella.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
At that point, police did contact Bella's family but obviously she had already heard about it from these articles that were sent to her immediately so she already knew at that time. By the time the family arrived to the scene, obviously police were all around and it was blocked off with tape and the police had to confirm to the family the horrible news that Bella had been shot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
But police also had the duty of keeping the neighborhood safe. Neighbors remember police officers running through the streets warning residents that there may be an active shooter in the area and urging them to stay inside. I do also want to take this moment to tell you that Rocco is okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
At this point in a lot of the articles, I was also wondering if he was shot and as far as I've seen, I don't think he was injured in any way. It was said that after the shooting, a neighbor found him wandering nearby, so he was okay and I believe he still is okay to this day. At this point, police had received numerous reports about someone open firing and then fleeing the scene.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
One neighbor reports that she heard 12 shots one after the other that day. The police, like I just said, at this point, they believed that the shooter may still be in the area and that there may have been a risk to the community. But police also said that they received multiple calls from neighbors who reported that they saw the shooter flee in a car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They both felt like they had to mature very quickly because of the issues that their family was facing. Then Anna went on to have Bella's half-brother, Jacob. For the time being, when Bella was a teenager, she lived with her mother, her sister, and her half-brother. Bella was described by others as being a free spirit. She was extremely independent and was a woman who just could not be chained.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
And another caller, who we will discuss in just a few minutes, they reported that he was headed towards the mountains. They also gave a description of the man's car, which was a black Mercedes Benz with a Colorado license plate. Less than an hour later, a man in a car with the same description was pulled over after he tried blowing through a red light.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I did see it reported that way, but I also saw that they knew who the suspect was and they pinged his phone to the area. I'm not exactly sure which report is true. Basically, all the reports said that he was pulled over. Didn't really say how they tracked him down, but these are the two different ways that I've heard it reported.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Either way, when the man was stopped, the officer walked up to the car and he noticed that on the passenger side floorboard, was a rifle with a high capacity magazine as well as a Glock 17 handgun. Of course, this officer quickly realized that this was the man who had just shot and killed an innocent young woman and gravely injured an innocent young man.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
After searching the rest of this man's car, he was also found to have a gun bell as well as several other high-capacity magazines as well. So, this man turned out to be 36-year-old Michael Close. Upon investigation, it turned out that Michael Close was in his apartment when he shot both Bella and Darian with an AK-47 rifle.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Of course, he initially tried denying this, but surveillance video actually caught him opening the blinds to his apartment and firing out of the window at the same time that both of these people were killed. At his apartment, it was also found that there were six shell casings inside of the apartment and 18 more shell casings on the ground just outside of his window.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So this confirmed that he opened fire and shot 24 times in quick succession. So police arrested and charged Michael Close with one count of first degree murder, two counts of attempted murder, and two counts of assault. His trial for murder started in March of 2021, and he pled not guilty due to reason of insanity. Now, his defense claimed that Michael's abusive childhood, a personality disorder,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
and a history of mental health issues, that is what is to blame for the shooting. They explained that Michael had been abused as a child until his biological father gave up custody of him when he was 17 years old. After that, he was legally adopted by another couple. As a teenager, he suffered with severe depression and had one instance of attempting to take his own life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
At this time, he was diagnosed with a personality disorder, which I haven't been able to find exactly which personality disorder, but he was diagnosed with that as well as depression, but he did not want to get treatment for it. However, Michael had no criminal history and no history of any kind of violence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They described that in the months and weeks leading up to the shootings, the tension in Michael's life was just building and things just were not going well for Michael. By January of 2020, Michael had just broken up with his long-term girlfriend of five years. After that, he lost his jobs of working at a bar and then at a marijuana dispensary because of the pandemic.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He also used working out as a way to release tension, but when the gyms closed down because of the pandemic, he lost his ability to work out, which also was devastating for him. Then on the night of June 9th, 2020, his ex-girlfriend had paid him a visit. They had been drinking alcohol for the majority of the night, but all they did was argue that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She was sympathetic, open-minded, kind, loving, and smart.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Then on the morning of June 10th, he texted the same ex and told her that his dogs had just been attacked by another dog at the dog park. During this call, he said that he planned to execute this dog's owner with a gun or a knife. The owners of the dog involved in this alleged attack were not Bella or Darian. Neither of them had any connection or anything to do with that incident.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She was a forgetful girl coming home three times each morning before actually leaving the house for the day, which definitely reminds me of myself just going to the car, realizing that you forgot something and then coming back and getting that one thing and then going out again and being like, okay, I forgot the next thing, going back and getting it before you actually get to leave for the day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So, it was said that after Michael heard the way that Darian was speaking to the dog, he became enraged. He then yelled out to the couple and then went and grabbed his AK-47 from another room. That is when he returned back to the window and then opened fire, shooting off 24 rounds, one after another.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Then after the shooting, he actually called his ex-girlfriend crying and was apologizing over and over and over again. He admitted that he had just killed two people. She tried telling him to turn himself in, but he kept saying that he was afraid to. He was saying that he was going to drive over to the mountains to kill himself and then asked her to take care of his dogs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So this report of him fleeing the scene and driving off to the mountains, that was the ex-girlfriend calling the police. Then after this phone call, Michael got into his SUV and then drove west before he got pulled over. The ex-girlfriend said that he had every intention of taking his life after that shooting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She also said that Michael was not mentally stable on the morning of the shooting and he hadn't been mentally stable for pretty much the majority of the time that she knew him. She said that he had a long history of abusing drugs like cocaine, molly, mushrooms, ketamine, and ecstasy, and he had been sober for three years until he recently started drinking again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
It also came out that a friend of Michael's received a text from him where he said that he was angry with a couple and their dog that morning. Then Michael called the same friend that morning saying, dude, I really effed up really effing bad. There's no going back from this now. Now in the initial reports of the shooting, it was stated that the gun used in this attack was an AR-15.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
But as we know, it was actually an AK-47 with a large capacity magazine, which is actually illegal in Colorado. So I don't believe an AK is illegal in Colorado, but I do think the large capacity magazines, that's what's illegal in Colorado.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Now, this gun was actually registered to a man named Daniel Politica, the same friend who Michael had texted that morning about being angry and saying that he's effed. Daniel was the owner of a company called Tyrant Arms LLC, a local gun shop.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Now, I saw that this gun shop wasn't up and operating at the time of this shooting, so I don't know if it had been closed down or if it was sort of just an idea that was still being built and that it wasn't, you know, in fruition yet, but that's basically what he owned. He owned a local gun shop, but he also worked as a sergeant with the Denver Police Department.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
It turned out that after Daniel had heard about this shooting involving Michael and an AK-47, He went around his house searching for the AK-47 and that's when he realized that it was missing. That is when he realized that Michael had stolen his gun without Daniel's knowledge or permission when visiting his house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She was also described as someone who would help anyone who needed it without a second thought. She and her family attended a local Christian church and they would often host family dinners with their extended family almost every week. Bella was in the Girl Scouts growing up as well as gymnastics.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
After discovering this, of course, he reported it to the police, but this wasn't reported until about 10 to 12 days after the shooting. Daniel would later say that him and other friends had been very worried about Michael's mental health and that they were trying to get him to go see a therapist. Some friends said that he confided in them that he had been sexually abused as a child.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Other friends said that he confided in them that when he was 12, he was sent to a mental institution because he had thoughts of harming himself. but the friends never thought that Michael would harm anybody else except himself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
After receiving these messages from Michael that day, Daniel said that he was actually going to get him help that same day, but of course he didn't get the chance to because he shot two people. So at trial, Michael's defense tried to argue that Mike had suffered a mental break that day and He was disassociated. He was out of his head. He didn't consider anything else at that time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He didn't even know what he was doing when he shot Bella and Darian. However, the prosecution argued that this was a rage-motivated mission for respect. They said that Michael was sane during the shooting, that he just acted on a long boiling rage because he felt disrespected in other areas of his life. He was just stewing with anger and he wanted to take it out on somebody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I also want to note that there actually was surveillance video at the dog park where Michael claimed his dog was attacked at and there was no evidence of his dog being attacked. In fact, there was no evidence of him ever being at that dog park that morning at all. It also showed that this text was sent to the friend about 10 minutes before the shooting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So it seemed like this was some sort of excuse or plan or justification for his anger. So after hearing both sides, which again presented pretty much all of the evidence that I just discussed here, both sides rested and now it was up to the jury to make their decision. At the end, the jury deliberated for less than a day before coming back with their verdict.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They found Michael Close guilty on one count of first-degree murder with the qualifier of extreme indifference, two counts of attempted first-degree murder, and two counts of first-degree assault. Because of this, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. As a result of Bella's murder and Darian's attempted murder,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She attended Cherry Creek High School and while there, she continued gymnastics and was on the cheerleading team. She loved doing modeling and posing for some local photographers and designers in Denver. She also loved doing her makeup and coming up with new, unique looks. She always had a dream of studying fashion.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Anna pushed to have a new law passed in Colorado, and in April of 2021, the bill called the Isabella Act was passed into Colorado law. This bill states that anybody who owns a firearm that is lost or stolen must report it to the police within five days. So my hope is that, you know, this law will make gun owners more responsible as to where their guns are.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
As somebody who doesn't have, you know, a ton of guns, I don't have an armory, you know, I have a couple of different weapons, but I definitely don't have a lot. I've definitely misplaced it before, but I know that if I misplace it, I need to find it because if I don't and somebody else does, that could end very badly for me. I am very responsible.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I don't want anybody to take that as like, I just am willy-nilly with my guns. I actually will tell you the situation. I brought one with me when I was going on a long hike by myself. I had it in my backpack that I carry with me on my hikes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I came home, I put the backpack down, and then I sort of forgot about it for a couple days, and then I realized that, you know, my gun was missing, and then I knew it was in the backpack, but in that moment, I was like, oh my gosh, it was sitting in my backpack, which was still in my apartment, but I was like, I cannot do that, and obviously after that, I make sure I put it exactly back where it was,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I put it where I know it's going to be at all times. But that is a moment where I realized that I was not being the most responsible with my guns. It was sitting in a backpack. It wasn't locked away in the safe that I keep it in. And so if something were to happen where someone came in and maybe took the backpack, that could have ended poorly for me because it wasn't by where it normally is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
it was somewhere else in my backpack. So that's just a situation where I do understand how it easily can be misplaced, but it also showed me like a swift kick in the butt that I need to be way more responsible when I take my gun out of my house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So once again, the reason I'm telling that story is because my hope is that with this new law, that people who own more than one gun and use them and take them different places or if you have like a room with a bunch of guns in it, or if you have guns around the house, that you regularly check to make sure that those guns are there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Whether you have people over, whether you have kids, especially if their friends are coming over, if anybody finds
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
a gun in your house and takes it and you don't know about it that's still on you so the fact that daniel didn't know that his gun was stolen i still think that that's on him he should have stored it better which we will get more into in literally like just a minute but it's his responsibility to keep track of his gun so while i do understand that it wasn't his fault that the shooting took place
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
he should have been a lot more responsible with how he stored his guns. That being said, Bella's father Joshua as well as Darian, they worked together to file a civil suit against Daniel Politica stating that Daniel needs to be held accountable. They stated that Daniel failed to responsibly and securely store his AK-47 that was used in the shooting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
However, she wanted to get a degree in something more practical after high school, so she went on to study accounting at the Metropolitan State University of Denver. In high school, Bella didn't really date much. She had a couple of boyfriends here and there, but nothing was ever all that serious. That was until she met a man named Darian Simon when she was 20 years old.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So, they claimed in the suit that Daniel, as well as his company, Tyrant Arms LLC, were negligent in allowing Michael to have access to the gun.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
It's stated that they have a, quote, common law duty to exercise proper care in the purchase, storage, sharing, selling, maintenance, supervision of weapons and ammunition that are purchased, including a weapon such as an AK-47 and the ammunition used to fire at Isabella Thales and Darian Simon. As a result, the suit claims that the defendants, quote, The document goes on to argue, quote,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
But before we get into it, I need to take a moment to say a huge thank you to my patrons, Nay, MB, McD, Lana, Brooke, Nicole, and Sandy. Thank you all so, so very much for your support. It's because of you guys and the rest of the Patreon family that I'm able to keep doing what I love and keep spreading awareness about these very important cases.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Plaintiffs suffered injuries, damages, and losses, including but not limited to economic, non-economic, and impairment damages such as permanent physical impairment, emotional distress, loss of enjoyment of life, and great mental and physical pain and suffering. They don't understand why it took Daniel so long to report his gun as missing and they think that there may be more to this story.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
In response, Daniel explained that him and Michael had been close friends for several years, meeting for the first time when they were in high school. In early 2020, Michael was living in a home owned by Daniel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He said that when Michael was staying at his house, in exchange for being allowed to stay there, Michael would help him pack all of his stuff up and then send to another home that Daniel was moving into. He explained that he kept the AK-47 for personal protection and that it had nothing to do with his job. So it wasn't a police department issued gun. It was his own personal gun.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He said that he kept this gun in a gap between the master closet as well as a wall. He said that he believed that this gun was actually stolen from the closet months before the shooting took place when Michael was at his house and helping him pack. He said that he never actually got around to checking for the gun because he never ended up unpacking the majority of his stuff.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Like I said earlier, in the initial reportings of the shooting, it stated that the gun used in the crime was an AR-15. So when he saw these reports, he didn't look for his AK because he didn't think it was related. Like I said, they were reporting that it was an AR-15 for a week or two.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So it wasn't until, you know, a week or two later that reports started coming out with Michael's identity saying that an AK was used. that Daniel actually thought to search for it. So he's explaining that that is why it took the 10 to 12 days to report the gun as stolen because the initial reportings were saying that it was an AR-15, not an AK-47.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So, you know, that's why he didn't think to look for it. So obviously that's not an excuse for Daniel at all. He should have known where all of his guns are in the first place, but it does go to show how important accurate reporting is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
that some people might think it was a small detail like, oh, we assumed it was an AR-15 because it was a rifle and, you know, those are the scary guns that everybody knows about, so we're just going to report it as that. But it was important that it was accurately reported and it wasn't. So the fact that they specifically said it was an AR-15 and not a, you know, long barrel rifle...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Darian Simon was six years older than her, and he too had similar experiences in terms of growing up in a bit of a tumultuous household, not having the best example of what a good relationship is supposed to look like. Darian was a photographer and the co-founder of a clothing company called Be A Good Person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Which would be the more general term because if you don't know what the gun is exactly, you would just say a rifle or a pistol or whatever the type of gun is instead of saying the specific name. That's just sort of my bias coming out. I think that a lot of times people assume it's an AR-15 because that's a popular gun that is well known. So, again, I think that is why...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
accurate reporting is very important because again I think if he did report this gun as missing much earlier obviously it wouldn't have changed the outcome but it could have made things go a lot quicker. So that is all I know about the civil suit as far as I've seen. I don't know if we know the results of the civil suit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
If you know please let me know because I looked it up and I haven't seen it reported anywhere that specifically states the results whether it was settled whether you know, either party lost or won or whatever. So if you know, please leave that in the comments below. But otherwise, it may still be ongoing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Then the last thing that I want to mention about this case is that in August of 2022, a park bench in the Ballpark neighborhood was dedicated as a memorial to Bella. It reads, The bench is located near a wall which has a mural of Isabella. Her mother, Anna, stated, quote, This is her home. I'm hoping it'll be named Bella Joy Gardens. There's nurture in nature.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
We always had plants around the house and Isabella was starting to garden with her boyfriend, Darian. There is now an Instagram page dedicated to the Bella Joy Gardens and you can see that their mission is to support others who have faced violence and continue to keep Bella's memory alive.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I also want to mention that Darian has a GoFundMe page to help raise money for his ongoing medical expenses for all of the care that he needs. I don't know if this is an active page, but I have seen that recently people have donated. I'm going to donate some of the money from this video to his medical expenses because
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
You shouldn't have to go through that alone and all of the things that he's gone through. Hopefully, you know, money shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully, he can get all of the care that he needs. So if you do have any extra money, please go ahead and donate it to help out with his medical expenses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Darian is also out there just spreading awareness on gun violence and also working to keep Bella's memory alive. It's truly amazing to see what he's doing and just how strong of a person he is. I can't even begin to fathom just how tragic this case is. When I say that she was murdered so senselessly and so randomly for absolutely no reason, This case fits that definition perfectly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She literally was just existing in the same space as a man who felt like he had no control over his life and felt that everybody else was to blame for it. I truly cannot comprehend what this has been like for Darian or the rest of Bella's family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
The two initially met through mutual friends and their relationship started off as the two just being friends. They were in a talking stage for most of 2019 and they weren't ready to accept the other as being an exclusive couple. The two were dating other people, but finally, Darian officially asked Bella to be his girlfriend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
All I can hope at this point is that the family has found peace in creating a new law that can hopefully enact some change and by keeping her memory alive with this park bench and this beautiful mural and these gardens. So that is all I have for today's case. As with all of these cases, my heart truly goes out to Bella's family, Darian, and everybody else who loved Bella.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
She seemed like such a strong young woman who literally did absolutely nothing wrong to cause this tragedy. She truly was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But either way, that is where I'm going to end today's video. And now I want to hear your guys' thoughts. What do you think about the new law that passed? What do you think about Daniel's story as to how Michael got a hold of his gun?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
What do you think of Michael's mental state? Please let me know any thoughts that you have on this case in the comments below. If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Don't forget to go ahead to turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Don't forget to go ahead and follow my Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure you go ahead and use the Google form, which I have listed down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I have found that to be a much more streamlined way of taking case suggestions. So once again, if you have a case that you would like to see covered on this channel, make sure you use my Google form down below. With that, I hope you guys have an amazing week. Stay safe, stay healthy. And I hope to see you next time. Bye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He said something like, I think this is super cute and actually a very accurate representation of dating in this day and age. Either way, once they officially started dating, things progressed really well for them. They would tell others that the relationship that they had between the two of them was different than anybody else they had dated before.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
When they were together, they both felt safe and comfortable. They said that neither of them had to put up walls when they were with the other one, even though they had built up these walls in previous relationships due to their family histories. But that wasn't how it was with the two of them. When they would have disagreements, they figured out ways to work through it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
There's also a bunch of pictures of Bella modeling for Be A Good Person, so it seemed like they did a lot of things together and she modeled for him and did work for him and they seemed like a power couple. Now, at this time, Bella was living at home with her mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
However, it was reported that the two of them had this argument that sort of put a strain on the relationship that Bella had with her mother. We don't know exactly what was the cause of this argument or what was said, but it was said that this argument ended with Bella's mother telling her that she needed to move out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So because of this, Bella moved out and moved in with Darian into his new apartment in Denver's ballpark district with his dog Rocco, a sweet loving 85 pound pit bull. It was a new residential development in the area that was still under construction near the Coors baseball field.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So, by June of 2020, Bella was about to turn 21, and her sister Sia, whose birthday was also in June, she was about to turn 19. So, by June 7th of 2020, the two threw a joint birthday party together on the rooftop of a local restaurant. They had an absolutely beautiful cake that was so beautiful that nobody wanted to cut into it, so Bella took it home still fully intact,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
The next day, she sent her mother a picture of her eating a slice of the cake for breakfast the next day. Then on that same day, June 8th, she made her last post to Instagram. It was a photo of herself and two friends where she talked about the protests for the recent death of George Floyd with a message to her followers to donate, advocate, and stay safe.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
On Monday, June 10th, Bella and Darian slept in that morning. She was freshly 21, as her birthday was just the day prior. She had plans to meet up with her mother that day for brunch, where her mother planned on giving her her actual birthday present that day. Bella had always borrowed her mother's designer shoes, so her mother bought her her own pair of designer shoes for her 21st birthday.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So once again, from the very bottom of my heart, thank you all so, so much for what you do and for your support. Okay, so with all of that being said, let's get into today's case. Today, we are going to be discussing the devastating murder of Isabella Thallus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So, when they went to brunch, that was the plan for Anna to give Bella the gift that she had bought her. Now, Darian also didn't have too many plans for that day other than just staying home and playing video games with a friend. That same day at around 11.40 a.m., Darian grabbed his dog Rocco's leash, put on some flip-flops, and headed towards the door to take his pup on a walk.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Now, with this being right in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic, Bella was honestly just looking for any opportunity that she could to get out of the house and do something. So she told Darian that she wanted to come along for the walk that day, so she did. So they left the apartment and walked down the street with Bella holding on to Rocco's leash.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They then headed to a spot of dirt that was nearby, located right next to some construction that was in the area where a lot of people in the neighborhood were known to bring their dogs. Once they got to that patch of dirt, Darian took a few steps away from Rocco and Bella to go sit in some nearby shade.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
and then Bella stood on a low brick retention wall while holding Rocco's leash and encouraging him to go potty. At this point the entire week, it seems like Rocco may have had an upset stomach or something. He did have a command to poop and he usually followed it, but he hadn't gone poop in a couple of days, so they were really trying to get him to go.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I've been in the same situation where I know that my dog really needs to go and we don't really have the time to let her go all day. So I'm like, come on, let's go potty. Let's go, Willow. Come on, let's get it done. And maybe...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I've sounded rude to my dog when I'm saying that because you can get a little bit frustrated, but that situation has definitely happened to me many times, and I'm sure it's happened to you guys tons of times too if you have a dog. However, as they were doing this, as they were trying to encourage Rocco to go potty,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Darian recalls hearing a voice coming from the building that they were standing next to saying, hey, are you gonna train that effing dog or are you gonna yell at it? At this point, Darian sort of just ignored the comment. He said that he really couldn't see who it was in the window, so he didn't really want to yell back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He kind of held himself back because he didn't want to escalate something into an argument that really didn't matter at that time, so... In his head, he said that he was just sort of thinking, who is this guy and why is he so hostile?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Basically, he was thinking in his head, what is this guy's problem without actually like yelling back something rude to him because again, he didn't want to cause too much of an argument. So he looked over at where the voice was coming from and he noticed that there was a man standing in a window that was pretty much completely dark on the first floor of a nearby building.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Isabella Joy Thallus, who went by the nickname Bella, was born June 9th, 1999 in Denver, Colorado to her parents, Anna Hernandez Thallus and Joshua Thallus, and she had two siblings, a sister named Lucia and a brother named Jacob. Now, Anna and Joshua, Bella's parents, they were high school sweethearts.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He said that he wasn't sure at this time if it was like an apartment building or some sort of office building or something like that. All he knew was that some dude was just standing there in the dark yelling to him about his dog.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He realized that maybe Rocco was going potty in the lawn of this apartment building, but obviously they're gonna pick it up, so there shouldn't have really been any issue. So Darian yelled something back to the man saying, "'My dog is trained fine. I've had him for four years.'" After this, Darian stood up and walked over to Bella. He said that he sort of had a bad feeling about this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He didn't really want anything to happen, so he wanted to leave the situation. So he got over and sort of motioned to Bella to walk away from there with him. But as he motioned to walk away and they started to sort of, you know, turn to leave, Darian looked back at the window and this time he saw the man more clearly.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He saw that a man was standing there at the window and he was pointing the barrel of a rifle right at them. Again, this was a totally random person that neither Bella or Darian knew. It was completely out of the blue. They didn't ever do anything to this man in the past that they knew of. They had never seen him before or anything like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So at that point, Darian recalls saying, are you pointing something at me? At that point, Darian thought that maybe he was just pointing a pellet gun at them or something like that. He really didn't know what to make of the situation. But that unfortunately is not what it was. So as Darian went down to pick up Rocco's poop before leaving, all of a sudden, one after the other,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
This man opened fire. Darian stood there as he heard shots ringing out one after the other over and over and over again. Then he saw Bella collapse to the ground and as she was doing that, he could feel bullets whizzing by his body. He turned around to run away from the scene, but that is when he also fell to the ground.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
As he was falling, he was trying to do whatever it was that he could to get away from the man who was shooting at them from the window, but he could no longer walk. His leg just stopped working, so he started crawling. He actually made it about 20 feet through gaps in two different fences before his body just sort of gave out and he could no longer move.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He said that in this moment, he remembers just... laying on the ground, having no idea what was going on. And as he was lying on the ground, he was just, you know, staring out at the ground in front of him. He kept telling himself that this was just a horrible dream and that he was going to wake up from it soon. But he actually had been shot at that point.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They were married when she was 18 years old and he was 19 years old, and soon after, they welcomed their first daughter, Bella. Two years later, they had Lucia, and then after the birth of her sister, Anna and Joshua actually got a divorce due to issues that they were both dealing with that they just didn't think were healthy to be having in a household with children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
one time to his buttock and one time to his leg. Darian said that he actually remembers laying there and seeing people just walking right by him and not helping him as he was laying there bleeding, unable to move until somebody finally came to help. This was actually a man that was a neighbor of Darian's.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I don't think they knew each other, but this was a man who was nearby and he heard the shots go off, so obviously he was wondering what was going on. This man had also just completed EMT training six months before, so he knew exactly what to do. So he grabbed a belt from a nearby construction worker and he tied it around Darian's thigh to create a tourniquet. and this saved Darian's life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I believe it was about a half hour or so, it might have been sooner, but around a half hour after Darian was shot, an ambulance arrived.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Now, when Darian and Bella went on the walk, neither of them had their phones with them, so Darian wasn't able to call 911 right after this happened, so people around the neighborhood who heard the shots being fired, they were the ones who were calling into the police with these reports. In the initial reports to the police, all people knew was that they heard shots being fired.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They didn't know that two people had been shot. So I'm assuming that the police reports of someone actually being shot weren't made until either this EMT came to help or somebody who saw the EMT helping Darian. So I'm assuming that's why it took so long for help to get to Darian. But at this point, as Darian was laying there, He had no idea what had happened to Bella.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
So once help arrived, obviously he was put into an ambulance, given pain medications and sedatives, and eventually they arrived to the Denver Health Medical Center. He needed surgery immediately to repair the damage that he had suffered. The gunshot wound to his leg completely fractured his femur.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
He required multiple surgeries to repair his femur, including a metal rod that was placed into his thigh to hold the bone together. But after multiple surgeries and a long ICU stay, he did survive. He would later go on to say that after talking to several medical professionals, first responders, and police officers, They all told him that it's a miracle that he survived.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
They said that even five to ten years ago, they didn't have the medical advances that we have now. So at that time, if this had happened that long ago, they probably would have had to completely amputate his entire right leg. But he was able to keep his leg and he was able to walk.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
I actually saw that a little over a year after his initial surgeries, after this metal rod was initially placed, this metal rod had actually snapped in half. He had to undergo his fifth surgery to put the metal rod back in place that kept his femur together.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Isabella Thallas // MURDERED FOR WALKING HER DOG?
Then after that, he needed two more additional surgeries to clean up different parts of his femur and then remove a temporary bone graft that had been placed. Now, as all of this was happening with Darian, seeing Bella fall to the ground and Darian being saved and sent to the hospital, Bella's family had no idea what had just happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
I have a long story, but I don't have enough time to tell you all of it. We would be here probably all week. There's so much information to tell. I was involuntarily checked into Fletcher Allen Healthcare Psych Ward six weeks ago. The day after I found out, my husband murdered my 14-year-old son on my daughter's birthday, and then he hung himself. He strangled my son to death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Just that experience alone is more than any mother should ever have to bear. I'd never wish it upon anyone. The next day, I had a lot of friends in court. I had a regular therapy appointment. I figured it would probably be a logical thing to do, to actually go to that therapy appointment. So I made the choice to go. I arrived at the appointment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
There were two security guards outside of my doctor's office. I go in. Not only was there my therapist, there was the director of a program there. There was another doctor. They had all made the decision before I even arrived that they were going to check me in, check me into the mental health facility, a woman that just experienced the hell of her life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
That night, I lived through the fires of hell. just dealing with what I dealt through. And I may not be crying right now because I have cried so many tears in the psych ward by myself for five and a half weeks, locked up. My family turned against me. They're sitting in the room right now. I didn't even have the support of my own sisters and brothers.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Instead, they wanted me to be locked up and put on medication. So here I am, stuck on CHEP6, the acute ward of Fletcher Allen Healthcare. behind four walls. I had patients throw chairs at me. I had a woman sit outside of my room who was mentally ill and needed more help than she was getting. She swore words that I can't even repeat in this room.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
For 24 hours straight, I finally got back to stop by telling the doctor for the third time that it was killing me. One night, I walked the halls because I couldn't sleep at night because I had nightmares about how my son was murdered. I would wake up all night long, and then I'd get in trouble by the doctors for not sleeping all night. But would you sleep having nightmares about that?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Would you want to go to sleep? No. But they gave me shit over it every day, saying, you're not sleeping, you need to take more drugs. They put me on strong antipsychotics. I know I only have 30 seconds left. But the bottom line is no one should have to endure the death of their son, the death of their husband, and then put into that situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Only when I decided and determined, thanks to the help of Lindsay Owen, the attorney for disability rights of Vermont, she showed up. She saved me that day. She showed me what my rights were and then I started standing up to the doctors. And I started telling them off. They didn't know whether to kick me out or to lock me up forever. Well, guess what? I fought for my rights and I'm out of there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
And no one should ever have to endure what I've gone through. It has been hell. And I will not stop fighting this fight because no one should ever have to deal with this . Thank you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. Now today's case is yet another case that is definitely going to frustrate you and infuriate you. The way that everything in this case was able to happen is just unbelievable and this was definitely a difficult one to research. Today, we are going to be discussing the murder of Shanna Grice.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I'm very frustrated talking about it. It's really, really getting to me and this entire time I can just feel so angry and so upset for Shanna. And I'm sure you guys are too, but...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
that's why i'm kind of getting worked up if you can't tell because it's just that frustrating to me so by mid-august shanna finally decided to meet up with michael at a local hotel they had spent a few hours together and apparently they came to the mutual decision that the relationship was officially over and that she was going to be with ash she left feeling satisfied and thought that maybe just maybe all of this was finally over but she was wrong
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Michael had apparently called a friend right after this and expressed that he was depressed after being dumped and he told the friend that Shanna was gonna pay for what she did. After this, Michael had sent Shanna a formal legal letter demanding that she pay him back a debt of $250 for the money that he had spent on her throughout their relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He wanted the money back for all of the dinners, dates, perfumes, and other gifts that he had bought for Shanna. But he would not end up getting his debt, I guess, that she owed him. Now, the night of August 24th, 2016, Ash had slept over at Shanna's house, but he had to leave for work that next morning on August 25th at around 7 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He said that the two had woken up, that they kissed, and that he said goodbye and left for work, closing the door and Shanna locking it behind him. The two had plans for that evening to meet up after each of them got off of work, They also had plans to attend a family member's wedding that following day. However, that morning on August 25th, Shanna did not show up for her work shift.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
This was very out of the ordinary for Shanna. She was usually very timely and reliable. So about three hours into her shift, Her manager at the grocery store called Ash to see if he knew where she was and right away Ash knew that something had to be wrong. So Ash immediately called his dad Ian to see if he could go to Shanna's house to see if she was okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Also as soon as this happened, Ash also jumped into his van and headed over to her house as fast as he could. I assume at this point that he had called his dad because he probably was just able to get to her house a lot quicker than he was. When Ian got to the house at around 9 45 a.m.,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So the timeline with the relationship is a little bit confusing because it was a secret relationship, so I'm not exactly sure of who knew what and when. But as far as I've seen, I believe this relationship went on without Ash's knowledge until April of 2016, and that is when she officially broke up with Ash to be with Michael.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
he immediately saw smoke coming from the house and the fire alarms were blaring when he walked closer there was a bloody footprint on the front porch then when he entered the home he saw that there had been a small fire started within the house then he went over to shanna's bedroom door and he actually was not able to open the door because it had been wedged shut with a piece of cardboard so after trying to push the door open and was unable to
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He went back outside for some air because again, the house was on fire. He then went back in and pushed it even harder and finally made it inside of Shanna's room. And to his absolute shock and horror, he found Shanna laying on the bed covered in blood. she had been murdered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
At the time, her roommates had also left for their jobs, so of course, Ian immediately called police, who showed up shortly after. They came over and taped off the scene, and forensic investigators then entered the home to take a look at the scene. They determined that she had been murdered, of course, in her bedroom that morning and then whoever did it had moved her body to the bed afterwards.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
They also determined that the fire was most likely purposely started by the perpetrator after pouring petrol all over her room. They also found that her bank card was missing. Of course, after this, Shanna's body was sent to the medical examiner for an autopsy. The medical examiner determined that her throat had been slit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
She had a deep wound in her neck, which measured about 10 centimeters in length. Of course, police started interviewing everybody in Shanna's life. This included her boyfriend, Ash, who did confirm that he had been questioned by police. They also questioned Michael Lane, of course, who had a very interesting story to tell.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So initially when police questioned him, he did not admit right away that he had gone to Shanna's house that morning. He told police that he'd actually left his house at around 8am that morning to go to work, but police confronted him with CCTV footage that showed him walking near Shanna's house at 7.29 that morning. His car was also seen driving in the same area between 7.36 and 8.12am.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Now, the medical examiner had ruled that her time of death was sometime between 7.30 and 8am. Shanna had received a text message to her phone from a friend at 7.42am that morning, but she had never opened it. Police say that this is most likely because she was deceased at the time, so that is why she wasn't able to open the text.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So, when Michael was confronted with all of this evidence that clearly showed him near Shanna's house near the time of her murder, He admitted that he was at her house that morning, but he maintained that he had nothing to do with her murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So his story was that he drove his car past her house that morning and he saw that her car was still in the driveway, which he thought was weird because he knew that she should have been at work. So he went to her house and noticed that the front door was half open.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
so he entered the house and he saw that her bedroom door was also left half open this is when he saw her body in her room slumped up against the bed still wearing her nightgown and there was blood all over her body the floor and the bed he said that he could tell that she was dead
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
But Shanna quickly realized that she had made a huge mistake by breaking up with Ash to be with Michael. So by July of 2016, she had broken it off with Michael and asked Ash to take her back, And he did. But during the course of Shanna and Michael's relationship, as well as after Shanna broke it off with Michael, Michael exhibited some very disturbing and controlling behaviors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He also added that he didn't see a fire and he didn't see any sign of petrol being poured anywhere in the house at that time. But instead of calling 999, which for US viewers is England's version of 911, he left and went over to a McColl's convenience store to go and get a lottery ticket. When he was asked by police why he left and didn't call, he said that he had just never seen a dead body
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He said that he was scared. He said he was in shock and just didn't know what to do. He said that he got scared that if he stood there for too long in the house, that police would show up and that they would think that he was responsible for the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So then after getting his lottery ticket from the convenience store, he returned home without mentioning anything about this to his family because apparently this didn't seem to be very important information to share with anybody. He apparently had just found his ex-girlfriend who he was absolutely obsessed with
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
dead in her room and he didn't think to mention it to anybody he then took a shower when he got home and then scratched off his lottery ticket to see if he was a lucky boy that day but apparently this is when he noticed that there was blood on his white shoes which had gotten there not because he murdered her but because he had just stumbled upon her body but by that point he started to hear police sirens so he panicked and instead of turning himself in or doing anything he decided to hide his shoes outside on the road
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
and then he also hid his shirt in a panic after all of this, he then went to the dentist to get some work done i'm laughing because it's just so casual how he went about all of this and he was just expecting everybody to believe him so then after this, after his dental work because he had to get that done
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
police finally arrested him and that is when he was questioned before he was ultimately charged with shanna's murder crazy i didn't know that murdering your partner counted as doing something wrong against them because she did choose to date him she did send him kissing emojis so i didn't know that you couldn't murder them i didn't know he would get arrested for that honestly i'm i'm surprised i'm very surprised i thought that since they were dating
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
At the beginning of their relationship, he would always try to publicly show his affection despite knowing that, you know, she wanted to keep this secret. So he would send her flowers at work and make a big thing out of it even after she asked him not to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
that he could do whatever he wanted, right? That's what they said earlier. It turned out that the night before the murder, Michael had went to a local supermarket and he was caught on CCTV footage buying some petrol. Then on the morning of the murder, on August 25th, 2016, Michael went over to Shanna's house and then waited outside until he saw Ash and her two roommates leave.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Once he knew that she was alone, he then entered her house and then took a knife from her kitchen and used that to slit Shanna's throat. He then used the petrol that he bought the night before and attempted to burn down the house and destroy all of the evidence, which obviously he did not do very well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He then took her debit card and walked out of her house and then another CCTV camera picked him up walking towards an ATM and then it showed him withdrawing $60 from her bank account. So the trial for Shanna's murder started in March of 2017 and Michael entered a plea of not guilty.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He was being represented by defense attorney Simon Russell Flint who argued that the two had a very consensual relationship and there was no evidence of any violence towards Shanna. But the prosecution argued that Michael was obsessed with Shanna and this showed through his eight months of continuously stalking her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
They argued that when she officially broke up with him, she made it clear that she was not going to be getting back together with him, and that at that time, he could not handle it, and he decided that if he couldn't have Shanna, that nobody could. So obviously, we know about all of these endless reports that Shanna had made to police on the numerous instances of stalking and harassment,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
but the prosecution brought forward even more evidence that pointed towards him being responsible. So the prosecution told the jury about how Shanna's blood was found on Michael's shoes and his shirt, which again, he admitted to hiding in his initial interview. Police did end up recovering those discarded items five days later, but the rest of the clothes, I guess, were not recovered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I'm not sure exactly what happened to them. Either way, the prosecution showed the jury the bloody footprint that was found on the front porch and showed that it had matched the shoes that Michael had been wearing that day. The jury was then shown the video of Michael walking up to the ATM and using Shanna's card because we all know the smartest criminals are going to
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
She did report this to her manager at work because she thought that this was inappropriate for him to be sending her gifts while she was at work. But in addition to this, Michael continuously stalked Shanna literally every single day, which started way back in February of 2016, which she did continuously report to police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
take their credit card and use it right after. Literally makes no sense, but thank goodness Michael is very, very stupid. Either way, the footage showed him trying to withdraw $250 because apparently, again, we know that she owed him. She owed him that much. But the account only had $60, so that is all he was able to withdraw. He got two $20 bills and then two $10 bills.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Of course, he tried saying that the person in the video was not him. He did say that he knew her pin at one point, but he said that he doesn't know it anymore. But once again, he was confronted with the evidence that police had literally found the $60 in Michael's car in the same exact bills had been withdrawn from the ATM.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So it would have been a hell of a coincidence if someone who looked exactly like Michael stole Michael's dead ex-girlfriend's debit card and then used it to get the same exact amount of money as Michael did in these same exact bills. Then when Michael was confronted with the fact that he did in fact buy petrol on the night before Shanna's murder, he said that this was just a coincidence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He claimed that he had actually bought the petrol because he was considering killing himself because he was depressed after his grandfather became ill. So to me, I think he was just trying to get sympathy, trying to show he's depressed. He's the one that should get sympathy. He's the one that's trying to kill himself. Didn't work.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So Michael's defense came back and argued that Michael was just an easy target for police and that they considered him a suspect before a proper investigation could even take place. The defense also questioned why his DNA had apparently not been found on the knife that was used to kill Shanna.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
His defense also argued that Shanna was only making these reports of stalking and harassment to hide the fact that she was continuing the secret relationship with Michael. The defense talked about how Michael loved and adored Shanna. He said that if you read the text messages between them, you can see just how much they adored and cared for one another.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He went on to say that these complaints of stalking have been exaggerated and blown out of proportion, which is literally exactly what Shanna's worst fear was when she was making these reports. However, after all of this came out with Shanna and her being murdered, it was actually discovered that surprisingly, to everybody's shock and surprise, again being sarcastic,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Michael had a very long history of violence, harassment, and stalking against other women. In fact, there had been a total of 12 other women who came out to talk about their experiences with Michael. There were women who said that they had dated Michael and that during their relationships, he was very controlling and manipulative.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Then there were other women who didn't actually date Michael, but they said that he was very persistent and tried to get them to date him and that he would send unsolicited explicit pictures of himself to them. There were other women who they said that he would just continuously harass them until they finally agreed to sleep with him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He would go to these women's houses and loiter around just like he did with Shanna. One woman in particular came forward to speak with the media about her very long history of harassment over the course of almost 10 years with Michael. She explained that the first time that she had met Michael was when she was only 10 years old and Michael was 17 years old.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
She was attending a camp at a community center that year where he was working and I guess helping out with activities. At first, she said that he seemed pretty normal, but quickly started showing some very strange and concerning behaviors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So in her first report, she stated that Michael had been hiding outside of her house and then slashed the tires on her car. Michael had also keyed Ash's car and then left a note on his car saying, Dear Ash, Shanna will always cheat on you. Happy New Year. So she reported this to police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
When they would have these campfires in the evenings, she would sit there and she would notice that he was staring at her the entire time out of the corner of her eye. Then whenever they would go on field trips at this community center, he would always offer to give her rides, like personally, like just drive her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Then after this, nothing happened for about two years until she was almost 13 years old and he was about 19 years old. At this point, she started seeing him driving in front of her home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Once again, she didn't think too too much of this until he started waiting outside of her home and he would drive up and offer her rides but she would always say no and this was something that happened multiple times. By the time she was 16 years old, he would send her messages on Facebook and continuously ask her if she wanted to drink with him and go on rides with him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
This really creeped her out so she said no and then she blocked him on Facebook but then six months later, she got a friend request from him on Snapchat And this came along with the message that said, he's sorry for freaking her out. Then after that, he started sending her messages, asking her to sleep with him for money. Obviously she said no, and she was really freaked out by this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Shanna Grice was 19 years old when her life was needlessly ended on August 25th, 2016. She grew up in Portsdale near Sussex in England. She was the only child to her parents, Sharon and Richard. She was described as being incredibly kind-hearted, always going out of her way to help others.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
But then he started sending her pictures on Snapchat of her own home with the caption, I can see you. She said that there would be times that after getting these messages, she would look out of her window and she would see him sitting there in his van outside of her home. Once again, this really freaked her out and she blocked him, but that didn't stop him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He made a new Snapchat and added her again and once again apologized. By the time she had gotten an actual boyfriend, she started getting messages from Michael saying that she shouldn't be with him, her boyfriend, that she should be with him, Michael.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He would talk about how lucky her boyfriend was for, you know, being with her and it got to the point that he was so obsessive that she was afraid to even leave her house because she knew that he lived close to her. Once again, she emphasized that she was not interested in him and that she had a boyfriend and finally these messages stopped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
she didn't report this over the years because just like so many women she was afraid of not being believed plus all of this started when she was only 10 years old so for the first like five years of this happening she probably didn't even really realize that she could report this obviously when you're that young you kind of don't think hey i'm gonna report this to police you just think this is weird i'm just gonna stop talking to this person i feel like
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
It probably just didn't cross her mind at the time to report this. But then in addition to this, obviously we can see that his behaviors did cross so many lines Technically, police probably wouldn't have been able to do anything. I don't think anything was technically illegal, so they probably wouldn't have done anything to begin with.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So then the officer who took down this initial report of the stalking, he also spoke with the HR manager at Shanna's work and this person did express concerns for Shanna's safety. So her work pretty much knew that Michael was being weird around her and that he was showing these concerning behaviors towards her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
This woman has come out and said that she wishes that she had come forward with this story earlier, and she said that maybe this would have stopped him from doing, you know, what he did to Shanna, but rest assured, it probably wouldn't have. They didn't take anything that Shanna had to say seriously, so I highly doubt this would have been taken seriously either.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
he probably would have been given a verbal warning and told to stay away and, you know, find someone else to talk to. So it was and still is very clear to everybody that Michael had a very long history of stalking and harassing women from the time that he was a teenager. He was and still is an insecure little boy who just couldn't take no for an answer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So for whatever reason, he clung on to Shanna with his claws and when she broke it off with him, he decided that the only reasonable action to take was to take her life. Rather than just finding someone else to stalk and harass, he killed her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
so after weeks of hearing all of the evidence that was brought up in court, the jury went into deliberation on march 22nd 2017. they came back with a verdict of guilty for the murder of shanna grace and he was sentenced to a minimum of 25 years in prison.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
after his sentencing, judge nicholas green said to michael quote, you have robbed shanna of her life and you have caused grief untold to her family and friends This was a cold-hearted murder. I have not detected in you any appreciation of the devastation that you have caused, nor have I detected remorse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Insofar as I have detected emotion in you, it has been at a determination to do all that you can to protect yourself and you have been the one person that you have felt sorry for."
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
He also had some words for the officers who handled Chana's reports of the stalking, and he said, quote, There was seemingly no appreciation on the part of those investigating that a young woman in a sexual relationship with a man could at one and the same time be vulnerable and at risk for serious harm. The police jumped to conclusion and Shanna was stereotyped.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
When further incidents of stalking occurred, Shanna did not complain to the police because she felt that her complaints would not be taken seriously. Michael Lane felt that if he continued with his obsessive stalking behavior, it was most unlikely that police would do anything to stop him. And he did continue even though he had been warned by police to keep away from Shanna.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Then her mother Sharon and her stepdad said in a statement to court,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
we're very relieved that the man who had killed our precious shanna our only child will serve a long and deserved present sentence we brought shanna up to respect authority and to always respect the law we firmly believe that shanna would be alive today if sussex police had acted to protect shanna on the many occasions that she complained about lane
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
rather than issuing her with a fine for wasting police time. Our daughter took her concerns to police and instead was treated as a criminal. I could not have stated it better myself. So after it all came out about how not seriously Shanna's reports of stalking were taken, the case was investigated by an independent office for police conduct.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
The HR manager also told police that she had spoken to Michael about these concerns as well. However, at this time, police said that there technically wasn't enough evidence to actually charge him with anything, so they ended up just giving him a verbal warning. But to everyone's shock and surprise, this verbal warning did not work. If you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
They later announced that one officer would be facing gross misconduct charges. Trevor Godfrey was found guilty of misconduct for insufficiently questioning Michael after he broke into Shanna's house. However, by the time this officer would have even faced these charges, he had already resigned from his position. So because of this, no further disciplinary action was taken against him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
They also recommended management advice and further training for the six other employees who were involved in these complaints. The IOPC regional director, Sarah Green said, quote, these circumstances surrounding her murder have understandably led to concerns being raised about how the Sussex police handle such situations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I would like to offer reassurance that we have made a number of quick time learning recommendations that the force has accepted, and we will make further statutory recommendations to improve how police handle reports of domestic abuse. P.C. Godfrey has been found to have committed misconduct for failing in his duties and responsibilities towards Shanna.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
and for acting unfairly towards her by not further exploring the context of her relationship with Mr. Lane and by effectively reaching a conclusion without making a proper inquiry. Those close to Shanna have testified that his actions affected her confidence in police and may have prevented her from reporting Lane's continued harassment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So it is nice to see that there is some action being taken against the officer who ignored Shanna, but it's still frustrating that he wasn't even on the force by the time these charges came.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I also saw that even after these disciplinary charges, Trevor Godfrey stuck to his guns and basically said, you know, these messages showed that there probably wasn't any stalking and harassment, so I don't even really think he learned anything. I still think that he's sticking to what he originally did and he's not really accepting any fault.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
i'm glad that they're saying that they're implementing changes in the police force and i really hope that it's made officers think twice about their actions in these situations but it's still so hard to believe how badly her case was mishandled in the first place i literally could not believe it as i was reading it and i'm sure you guys have noticed this is probably the most upset that i've gotten
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
while talking about a case in a very long time. it's frustrating to see just how much you can report to police and not be taken seriously. it's absolutely terrifying to see that there are cases out there of women who are just continuously reporting the same thing to police and that they're doing absolutely nothing until she ended up dead. and obviously,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
that's when they have to do something, right? That's when a lot of these cases happen. A lot of these cases, the victim is ignored until they are found dead. And that's terrifying. And it really, really makes me feel for anybody who's going through something similar to Shanna. It makes me really feel for stalking victims who are not being believed. I think things need to be done
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
way sooner, obviously. That's obvious. Something needs to be done to every police force, though, to show that these victims should be believed. I would even go as far as saying that even if Shanna was making false police reports, it's better to be safe than sorry. fully investigate it, fully do something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
And when these continued reports were happening and when Michael literally admitted that, yeah, I broke into her house. Yeah, I watched her sleep. Yeah, I slashed her tires. Yeah, you know, all of these things were happening and other witnesses were saying like, hey, I literally saw him Pull her hair.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I saw how bad this argument was when her roommates were talking about how bad things were getting. When Michael's friend called to say that he said, you know, she's going to pay for what she did. Something should have been done. Something should have been done from the very beginning, from February. But she literally made so many reports from the months of February all the way until August.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
By the evening of March 24th, 2016, Shanna had returned home from work with Michael following her close behind. At this point, Michael had placed a tracking device on her car, which obviously Shanna did not know about. But either way, once Shanna got home on this day, I believe she was talking on the phone, but he followed Shanna into her house, which obviously caused an argument between them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
That is such a long time. for no one to do anything and it's just unbelievable and obviously my heart absolutely goes out to Shanna, her family, Ash, and everybody else who knew and loved her. I know a lot of you might cast some judgment on Shanna but she was just so young and she was just trying to figure out what she wanted in life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Her parents lost their only child and they've been through enough so please Only nice and encouraging comments down below towards the family. I truly believe that she continued her relationship with Michael because of how controlling and manipulative he was and how scared she was of him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I feel so sorry that Ash had to go through all of this and just when he thought things were finally going to calm down, things went completely out of control. It's absolutely devastating and it's just so frustrating at how preventable this case was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Michael then chased her out of the house during this argument and then pulled the phone out of her hand, pulling her hair while doing so. The fight between them was bad enough that a car that was driving by had stopped to ask Shanna if she was okay and then picked her up from her house and drove her over to Ash's house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
This assault was then reported to police and Michael was arrested on suspicion of assault. The next day, police showed up to Shanna's house where she was with Ash and his family because they had all been over just providing her comfort and support after this entire assault happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So going against their good practice guidelines, so basically something that they're not supposed to do, the officer went ahead and interviewed Shanna while she was still in front of Ash and his family. In this interview, Shanna told police that she had been friends with Michael, but she was not involved in a romantic relationship with him, which obviously we know is not true at this time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So, like I stated earlier, at this time, Ash did not know about the relationship yet, so obviously she didn't want to admit it in front of him and his family. And that's exactly why police are not supposed to interview her in front of anybody else.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
They're supposed to take her to her own area and interview her privately so that she feels comfortable and safe saying everything that happened in the situation. But either way, during this interview, she expressed to police about these other instances of stalking and then how that same day, He followed her home and pulled her hair.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Police went ahead and then questioned Michael separately, who did tell police that the two of them did have an on-again and off-again relationship. He admitted to following her, but denied assaulting her. And then to prove to the officer that he did have this relationship with Shanna, he showed the officer the text messages that the two had between them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
And obviously, this did show that they had a relationship. Police then went back and questioned Shanna about this entire thing, and she did admit that she had been romantically involved with Michael. But she continued to emphasize his stalking, harassment, and the physical assault by pulling her hair that he had put her through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
She had been a student at Grove Park School and then had been living in a home in Brighton with three of her friends at the time of her murder. Her friends described her as the mom of the group. She would always make sure that her friends were taken care of Her parents described her as lively and vivacious, and she was always social and always wanted to be friends with pretty much everybody.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Rather than being somebody that Shanna could feel comfortable reporting to, rather than holding Michael accountable for his actions and protecting this young woman who clearly was being stalked and harassed. Because Shanna had a relationship with Michael and didn't want to admit it, I guess this entire thing of stalking and assault just didn't count.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Because we know that there's no possible way that someone in a relationship could possibly be stalked and harassed and assaulted by their partner. It's just impossible, right? So Michael did not get in trouble for the assault. In fact, Shanna was issued a fixed penalty notice. Basically, they charged her and fined her with filing a false police report and for wasting police time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
And she had to pay them $90 all because the officer had read the messages between them and they had kissing emojis. I'm literally not kidding you. I wish I was. But this officer literally said that because he read the messages and they had kissing emojis, there is no possible way that this could have been a real case of stalking and harassment. So even though Michael had pulled her hair
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
stalked her, hid outside of her house, slashed her tires, and vandalized Ash's car. None of that mattered because they sent kissing emojis to each other. It didn't count as harassment because they were nice to each other and Shanna continued texting him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Even though he did all of these things, it doesn't matter because again, we know that there's no possible way a boyfriend could ever hurt his girlfriend. There's no possible way he could be a creepy stalker. No way, because you know what? Hey, look, she sent him kissing emojis. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for his actions because she sent him Kissing emojis.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
That's literally what the excuse was. I'm not kidding. So after this, Shanna had finally decided that she had enough of Michael, so she quit her job, citing Michael as the reason why. But shortly after she quit her job, Michael also quit. However, like I mentioned earlier, Michael had already placed a tracker on Shanna's car, so even though they did not work together, he continued to follow her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So I don't know the whole story behind why she continued to see him on and off, but she did, as I stated earlier. Like I said earlier, she broke it off with Ash that April and continued saying Michael.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Again, we don't exactly know why, but from the looks of it, from what I've been able to see, it honestly seemed like she was scared of him and she was afraid to see what would happen if she did break up with him. Clearly, Michael did not like the fact that Shanna was also seeing Ash, clearly by the note and by the fact that he had vandalized his car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So to me, it seems like that's why she continued seeing him. Obviously, he was very controlling, manipulative, and very scary. He was a very scary person to deal with. But what we do know is that after Shanna was given this fine by the police, you know, literally penalized for reporting a crime,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Shanna's roommate said that she was really disheartened and she felt hopeless about the fact that nobody believed her. She was very, very frustrated. She was worried that because of what happened, that everything that she told police now would just look like a lie because she had this fine on her record. So to me, it was pretty obvious that the stalking and harassment did not stop.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
I just think she stopped reporting the multiple, multiple incidents because she was scared about not being believed. so there were no reports being made in the following months. But as I stated before, she did end up breaking up with Michael officially in July and she got back together with Ash.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
On July 8th, Shanna had Michael come over so that he could collect his personal belongings and basically get all the stuff out of her house. But what she didn't know is that while doing so, Michael had stolen her house key. Then that next morning on July 9th at around 6am, while Shanna was still sleeping,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
When she was in high school, she started dating a 20-year-old boy named Ash who worked as a carpenter. The two had a pretty serious relationship, even talking about having kids and talking about what they were going to name them. The two had dated for about three years, but they did have a pretty on-again, off-again type of relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
michael had entered shanna's home using her house key and then went into her bedroom and stood there just watching her sleep for about a minute or two or at least he thought that he was watching her sleep she had actually heard michael enter the house and walk up the stairs and then enter her room and she was really scared
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So Shanna pulled over the covers over her face and pretended to keep sleeping. She sat there, terrified, just listening to him stand there and breathe. Then she heard him say, quote, I wanted to see you and I knew you wouldn't let me in. I'm just not right in the head. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it. She continued to pretend to be asleep until she finally heard him leave.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
When she heard that he left, she got up and looked outside of her window and saw him walking back to his car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
so throughout the entire time of shanna reporting michael to police they basically just kept telling her that they didn't technically have proof that he was stalking her so that's why they weren't able to actually arrest him well before reporting her to police for him breaking into her house and watching her sleep she decided to call him and confront him about this and recorded the phone call as proof and so one question that's really bugging me why did you take the key in the first place
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
After the phone call at the same day, Shannon did report Michael to the police. They were broken up at this point, so police had literally no excuses for not taking her seriously because now they weren't in a relationship anymore. So I guess now he is able to stalk and harass her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
When she reported him, she continued to emphasize just how terrified of him that she was and how uncomfortable this entire thing made her. As this was going on, Michael showed back up to Shanna's house to return the key, but by the time he got there, police had already arrived. So Michael was once again arrested and interviewed about this incident.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
By the time Shanna was 18 years old in the summer of 2015, she got her first real job as a receptionist at the Brighton Fire Alarms Company. She was actually really excited about this job because it was a respectable job that would look good on her resume, and it also allowed her to start saving up the money that she would need in order to have her dream wedding with her boyfriend, Ash.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Michael admitted that he stupidly took the key and he expressed regret for taking it. But once again, rather than being charged for stalking and harassment, breaking and entering literally anything, he was charged with theft. And that's it. So once again, rather than actually being charged with stalking and harassment, or at least breaking and entering, he was charged with theft.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
And that's literally it. When later questioned, the officer said that he went with the lesser charges of theft because he was able to prove the theft because he had the tangible key. But obviously this isn't a very high charge. So Michael was not in jail for long before he was just released. But thankfully, Thank goodness police gave him yet another warning to stop stalking Shanna.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
because we all know that worked the first million times that they did so. After this, Shanna and her roommates changed all of the locks in the house and they just started to be more cautious and making sure that they kept everything locked up at all times. Then by July 10th, Shanna went to police with more reports of harassment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So she told police that she was receiving a series of multiple phone calls from unknown numbers and then when she would answer, there would just be heavy breathing on the other line. She told police that she was very scared and worried She gave police the phone number that had been calling her, which she didn't recognize, but the police were able to trace it back to a landline number. Guess what?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
To everyone's shock and surprise, it was traced back to Michael's address. So clearly, Michael Lane was the one calling and harassing her. What a surprise. Now, at this time, Shanna had started a new job at a grocery store called Palmer and Harvey as a cashier. But working a job separate from Michael, obviously, did not stop him from following her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
At this point, she did start to notice his car following very closely behind her. Then, Anytime she would go out with friends to like restaurants or pubs, he would just show up and happen to be there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So it turned out that this entire time that Michael had this tracker on Shanna's car, he would show up back up after dark every 10 days to change the battery on the tracker so that he could continue to follow her whenever he wanted. So she then called police on July 12th to report that she was now being followed by Michael to and from work. After this though, the police did take in the report,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
but you are not going to believe this but somehow michael was labeled as a low risk for harmful behavior by police this reasoning apparently was because of his lack of threatening behavior so do you want to know what happened when she made this like millionth report nothing Nothing was done. She wasn't taken seriously. They refused to help her and they did absolutely nothing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
They sent her a letter in the mail telling her that no further action was going to be taken on her case. There was a point that Shanna realized that police were not going to keep her safe. They were not going to protect her. Her reports were absolutely useless. No matter how many times she called, no matter how many reports that she made, no matter what she did, nothing was going to be done.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
However, while she was working at Brighton Fire Alarms Company, she met a 26-year-old man named Michael Lane. He was a mechanic at the same company and he introduced himself to her and the two started talking. Reportedly, there was an instant connection between the two of them and Shanna started a secret relationship with him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
So she started to rely on her family and friends to keep her safe. She told her family and friends that if they hadn't heard from her in more than a few hours, that something probably happened to her. She continued to get phone calls. He continued following her. He continued lurking around her house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Devastating Murder of Shana Grice // FINED FOR REPORTING HER STALKER??
Her friends and her roommates urged her to keep notifying police, but clearly by the several times that she had already done so, they did absolutely nothing. She was worried that police would accuse her once again of blowing the entire thing out of proportion. If you can't tell, this is a very frustrating case for me. I literally could not believe how this entire thing played out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Because of that, Shonda started putting locks on the pantry and freezer and fridge. Starting in January of 2022, just after the stroke, Timothy was no longer to leave the house at all. Again, he was homeschooled, so he also didn't go to school. The only time he was allowed outside was to walk their dog behind the house in the backyard so that nobody could see him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
There were also physical punishments that he had to endure outside. If he got in trouble, he would have to run up and down the stairs outside as fast as he could. And if he didn't go fast enough, Paul would have to chase closely behind him to make him go faster. The investigators also asked Paul about all of the cameras that were found in the home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
According to Paul, those cameras were used to basically surveil Timothy 24-7. Now, Shonda and Paul worked almost opposite schedules. Shonda worked during the day, basically 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., while Paul worked from about 4 p.m. to close at Applebee's. So, there was almost always someone available to monitor what Timothy was doing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Someone was pretty much always home with him to dole out the punishments. There were also some cameras in the home that had two-way speakers, so if Shonda was at work and wanted Paul to do something to Timothy, she could speak via the cameras and watch as he did it, providing feedback as she saw fit. If Shonda wasn't able to watch the cameras, such as when she was busy at work,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Paul sollte die Kameras anschauen und immer darauf achten, was Timothy gemacht hat. Einer der Gründe für diese Kameras war, dass Timothy in der Klosse in diesem Wohnzimmer gezwungen wurde. Wie gesagt, gab es in der Klosse in diesem Wohnzimmer nur einen blauen Tarp.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Der Tarp war da, weil, laut Shonda und Paul, Timothy Probleme mit Verletzungen hatte und seine Beine und Blätter nicht kontrollieren konnte. Also war der Tarp da, damit er die Flügel nicht zerstören würde, glaube ich. I also want to note that the only thing Timothy was allowed to wear were those adult diapers. No clothes, nothing besides the diaper. He was completely naked otherwise.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But if Timothy did want to use the restroom not in the diaper, apparently Shonda timed how long he was allowed to use the bathroom. He was allowed one minute to pee and two minutes to poop. If he took any longer than that, Shonda would stop him. So to me, it doesn't seem like he had issues controlling his ball and bladder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
It seemed that either he was stopped in the middle of going, so he had to finish somehow, or he was too scared to ask, or they simply wouldn't allow him to, so after hours and hours and hours of holding it, he had to go eventually. Trotz der Tatsache, dass Timothy auch ein Bett in diesem gemeinsamen Bereich hatte, war er gezwungen, in diesem Kloset zu schlafen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Wie gesagt, es gab einen Motionssensor auf der Tür, der ein Geräusch machen würde, wenn er versuchen würde, zu gehen, sowie eine Kamera, die an dieser Tür vorbeigeht, um Timothy zu beobachten. Paul also said that often times when he was in that closet, he was forced to kneel down, face the wall and put his hands on his head, forced to stay in that position for several hours at a time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel Shannon and welcome to another true crime video. Nun, das ist wahrscheinlich einer der schlimmsten Fälle, die ich je hier auf meinem Kanal besprochen habe. Die Dinge, die Timothy durchgeführt hat, sind horrend. Und wenn du lernst, wie es alles passieren konnte, wirst du deinen Stomach schmerzen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
In addition to that, Timothy was often forced to wear zip ties or handcuffs. Or, Paul said, sometimes they would force Timothy to wear gloves. Both to restrict his movement. Then he even wore a motion sensor that they attached to a belt lube, which detected any amount of movement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So if Timothy as much as moved his arms while in his punishment, the detectors would sense it and would alert Shonda or Paul as well as make a loud beeping sound. According to Paul, just like many other children with autism, Timothy had sensory processing disorder, which included an extreme sensitivity to sound.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So a lot of times children with autism might have big reactions or meltdowns to sounds that don't typically bother neurotypical people. Things like fireworks, microwave beeping, loud music, construction, things like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Of course, Shonda knew that Timothy was sensitive to sound, so she made sure that those sensors were as loud as possible to make sure that Timothy wouldn't move and if he did, he would suffer. Their goal was to make Timothy as uncomfortable as possible. He wasn't allowed to be stuck in that closet sitting or lying down.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He had to be on his knees or standing perfectly still or he had to do wall sits as physical punishment. He also wasn't allowed to rest. In one text message sent from Shonda to Paul, she wrote, She continued, Feel free to dump some cold water on him. I honestly don't care if you get a little rough with him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Again, he was restricted food, but it got to the point where Shonda just completely stopped feeding him. The only time he was allowed to eat was when he was in trouble and he was forced to eat bread that was covered in hot sauce. And only when he ate the entire piece of bread was he allowed to eat a normal piece of bread, a plain piece of bread. Sometimes when he got in trouble,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Er würde Hot Sauce direkt in seinen Mund geben. Und, wenn das nicht schlecht klingt, haben sie keinen normalen Hot Sauce benutzt. Sie haben einen gekauft, der zwei der weltweit heißesten Pfeffer enthält, den Trinidad Skorpion und den Carolina Reaper. Auf der Seite des Bottles schreibt es, By April of 2022, investigators found text messages where Paul texted his mother
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
that Timothy went into the trash can and got a hold of some crust to a bun from a burger and ate that crust. In response, Shonda told Paul to make him throw it up because he wasn't allowed to be eating.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
According to Paul, he shoved his finger to the back of Timothy's throat and tried to force him to throw up, but I believe at that time he didn't actually throw up, so he had to do it multiple more times. But nothing came up. This wasn't the only time that Shonda ordered Paul to make Timothy throw up. This was something that happened four or five times, according to Paul.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Another form of punishment, according to Paul, was that they would force Timothy to take ice baths. Sie füllen den Kühlschrank mit dem kaltesten Wasser, das möglich ist, das aus dem Kühlschrank kommt. Dann bekommen sie alle Eis aus der Eismaschine und füllen den Kühlschrank so voll wie möglich. Normalerweise machen sie ihn in diesem kaltes Eis für 30 Minuten auf einmal sitzen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
According to Paul, when he did this, Shonda would watch on the camera that was in the bathroom. He said that Shonda ordered him to watch Timothy in that ice bath the entire 30 minutes to make sure that he couldn't get comfortable. He wasn't allowed to rest his head on the bathtub. He wasn't allowed to just sit still. Er musste in den schlimmsten Positionen sein, die möglich sind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Und Paul musste sicher machen, dass Timothy das Wasser nicht heiß machen würde, um das Wasser wärmer und komfortabler zu machen. Er musste kühlen und er musste sitzen, in einer Weise, die für ihn schmerzhaft war. Was für mich ein weiteres Level von psychotisch ist. Der Fakt, dass du dieses Kind in einem Eisbad für 30 Minuten zu Beginn sitzt, ist brutal.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Und dann, um das noch zu sagen, kann er nicht mal in ihm aufstehen. Er kann nicht seinen Kopf aufstehen. Er kann nicht sitzen, wie ein normaler Mensch in einem Bathtub wäre. Er musste entweder an seiner Seite sitzen, oder seine Beine da drin haben, oder einfach in einer Position sitzen, die sie wussten, dass es für ihn schmerzhaft wäre.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
It just adds another element to this that is very, very disturbing. By June 13th, investigators found more text messages that Paul sent to Shonda. In the text, Paul sent his mother a photo of Timothy, saying that he was getting concerned about how skinny Timothy was getting. Again, he was not allowed to eat. He was really only allowed to eat bread with hot sauce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Also nur eine Warnung für diejenigen von euch, die Fälle, die Kinder betreffen, nicht umsetzen können. Diese Fälle sind schrecklich und werden schwer zu hören sein. Also, wenn du damit bereits sensibel bist, dann ist dieses Video nicht für dich.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He was getting absolutely no nutrients. Paul hat seiner Mutter gesagt, vielleicht sollten wir Timothy etwas essen lassen. An diesem Tag hat sie ihm gesagt, dass er ihm einen Peanut Butter Sandwich und nichts anderes machen soll. Aber Paul hat gesagt, dass er ihm das Sandwich und auch einige Eier mit Käse auf dem Sandwich gemacht hat, weil er wieder sah, wie dünn und unnahrlich Timothy hatte. Am 5.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Juni 2022 erinnert Paul, dass seine Mutter ihm erzählt hat, Timothy um 2 Uhr aufzuwachen. Normalerweise war es ziemlich einfach, Timothy aufzuwachen. But on this day in particular, Timothy was just not waking up. So Paul started yelling and screaming to get Timothy up. But when that didn't work, Shonda allegedly told Paul to wake Timothy up with an ice bath.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Paul musste Timothée aus dem Schlauch, in dem er war, ausdrehen und ihn in das Eisbett legen. Als er in das Eisbett ging, war Timothée noch nicht aufgewacht, also sagte Shonda Paul, eine Pizza-Rolle aufzuheben und es auf Timothées Gesicht zu legen, um zu sehen, ob er darauf reagiert. Natürlich war hier der Gedanke, dass er, wenn er starb, auf das Essen reagiert, das vor ihm vorgelegt wird.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Timothée reagierte auf die Pizza-Rolle, Aber Paul sagte, dass er die Pizzarolle weggezogen hat und es ihm nicht geben würde, weil Shonda Timothy nicht wirklich essen wollte. Sie wollte nur, dass er enttäuscht wird, um ihn aufzuwachen. Nachdem das, laut Textmessagen, nach dem Eisbathen und dem Enttäuschen mit der Pizzarolle, Shonda Paul getextet hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
saying that she wondered what it would feel like if he poured hot sauce directly on Timothy's genitals. The text reads, quote, I wonder how it would feel to have the hot sauce on your private parts. I'm not saying touch him there, not at all, but dripping a little bit there, is that horrible? But according to Paul, that was too far for him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He would not comply with that, so he didn't end up dropping hot sauce on Timothy like that. Now, like I said, Timothy was woken up at 2pm that day and was immediately put into the ice bath.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Aber trotz dessen, wie komfortabel dieses Video sein wird, trotz dessen, wie schwer es ist, die Details zu hören, muss die Geschichte von Timothy erzählt werden. So, mit dem gesagt, gehen wir in den Fall. Das ist die Geschichte von Timothy. Timothy R. Ferguson wurde am 6. August 2006 mit seiner Mutter, Shonda van der Ark, geboren und mit seinem Vater, Eric Ferguson.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
On that particular day, Paul actually had to work, but he wasn't able to go at his normal time, which was 4pm, because the tire on his bike was flat, so he had to wait for his mom to get home to drive him to work, which happened just after 6 p.m. She picked him up and drove Paul to work, returning back home afterwards.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
By around 11.30 p.m., Shonda texted Paul, saying that Timothy was still in that ice bath. So, Timothy was in that ice bath, naked, unable to move, on the brink of starvation, no food that entire time, for nine hours. Paul didn't return home until 1 a.m. that morning, now going into July 6th. When he got home, Paul said that he didn't see Timothy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
It doesn't appear that he was still in the bath at that time because he didn't see him in the bathroom, but he didn't know exactly where he was because he didn't check on him. Most likely, he was in the closet that he was forced to sleep in. Am Morgen des 6. Juli sagte Paul, dass er früh aufstehen musste, um wieder an der Arbeit zu gehen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Kurz nach dem Aufstehen sagte Paul, dass es damals war, als Shonda ihm informierte, dass Timothy nicht mehr atmet. Paul fand dann Timothy, der noch in der Klappe liegend war, nichts zu tragen, aber einen älteren Schlauch, unverantwortlich und nicht zu atmen. Laut Paul wollte er sofort 9-1-1 anrufen, um zu informieren, was passiert ist, aber Shonda sagte, dass sie noch nicht 9-1-1 anrufen wollten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Also laut Paul und nach dem Zuschauen der Kameras, die im Wohnzimmer waren, waren sie sehr freundlich, nachdem sie Timothys Körper gefunden haben. Apparell hat Paul CPR versucht, aber es hat nicht funktioniert. Nachdem das, haben Paul und Shonda Kleidung auf Timothys lebenslosen Körper gelegt. Sie haben eine Hütte und ein Paar von Pauls Jeans und eine Stiefel gelegt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie hatten nicht genug Kleidung für Timothy, damit er sich in seine eigenen Kleidung befindet. Sie haben Timothy dann von der Klosthalle in den offenen Basementflur mit den Kleidungen angezogen, bevor sie die Geschichte über 911 erzählen würden. Shonda sagte Paul, dass er den Polizisten erzählen wollte, dass Timothy auf einer Hungerstrecke war.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Nach dem Vertrauen, hat Paul 911 angerufen, um zu informieren, was passiert ist. Es gab also fast 20 Minuten, bis Paul seine Bruders totes Körper gesehen hat, bis sie 911 angerufen haben. Nachdem die Polizei aufgerufen hat und die Beweise aus der Szene gekriegt hat und Timothys Körper entfernt hat, wurden sie, laut Paul, in der Haustür für ein bisschen allein.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Police left, so they weren't actively monitoring Shonda and Paul. It was at that time, according to Paul, that Shonda started getting to work to get rid of the evidence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
She threw away the vibration detectors that they had used to torture Timothy and discarded one of the cameras that police didn't confiscate, breaking the memory chip in that camera into four pieces so they could never see what was on it. So, I know that was a lot to hear.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But this is everything that Paul claims poor Timothy went through in the six to seven months that he was with Shonda after Adam left the home. According to Paul, it was all at the direction of his mother Shonda. But clearly, Paul was just as much a part of the abuse as Shonda was. So because of this, Paul was arrested and charged with first degree child abuse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Now, as the preparations for trial were taking place, Shonda was claiming that she suffered from severe mental ailments that prevented her from understanding what she did. She claimed that she suffered from ADHD, sensory processing disorder, OCD, as well as PTSD from her husband's stroke. At the time, Shonda also had a service dog that she kept because she had blood sugar issues.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Timothy hatte vier Brüder insgesamt. Nun, ich glaube, es gibt einige andere Brüder da draußen. Es gibt mehr Großbrüder. But the ones that they talk about the most are these four. So he had an older brother named Paul who was 19 years old and he had a younger brother who was seven at the time who was only referred to as G in court.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
The dog would alert her anytime she had dangerously low blood sugar. However, because of this, she stated that she would have episodes of blacking out and not remembering things. I will come back to this more in just a minute, but that is what she claimed. So she tried to say that she was not competent to stand trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But after undergoing psychiatric evaluations, they came back determining that Shonda was perfectly capable of going to trial. She understood the charges against her and was able to participate in her own defense. Meanwhile, Paul actually pleaded guilty to charges of child abuse and he agreed to testify against his mother about what she and him put Timothy through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
The trial for premeditated murder started in December of 2023. The prosecution laid out everything that Shonda had done to torture and abuse Timothy for months until his death on July 6th, 2022. She starved him, forced him to take ice baths,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Only allowed him to eat hot sauce on bread, made him run and do wall sits and sit in very uncomfortable positions for prolonged periods of time as forms of punishment. She put motion sensors on doors and the pantry and locks on the fridge and freezer. She shackled his legs and zip-tied his hands so he physically couldn't move. He couldn't wear clothes, only a diaper.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He wasn't allowed to use the bathroom. He wasn't allowed to sleep in a bed. He was trapped in a tiny closet for most of his day and night. Not only that, but she had cameras in the bathroom and the bedroom and all around the house. So even when she wasn't home, she could sit there and watch Timothy suffering at every moment of the day. She couldn't get enough.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
If she wasn't home to torture him, she told Paul what to do and sat at work and watched it happen again. Like a sick psychopath. The prosecution brought forward the officers who responded to the scene.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
They talked about all of the evidence that they found around the house, including the cameras, motion sensors, the tarp in the closet, the state that the house was in, which, like I said, was dirty and smelled like urine and feces. They also had Paul take the stand where he outlined everything that Timothy went through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He says everything in a very matter-of-fact way, reiterating repeatedly that everything he did was at the direction of Shonda. I'm sure his lawyers pounded that into his head to make sure that he said that anytime he had the opportunity to. When he was asked why he would take part in abusing his brother, even if it was at the direction of his mother...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He said that he isn't diagnosed, but he described his situation as being like Stockholm Syndrome. He said that he had a desire to find a role model. He had low self-esteem, so he would do anything to make his role model proud.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He acknowledged that he knew it wasn't an excuse, but he now realizes what he did was wrong and is happy he can reflect on his actions and learn from them so he can correct them. I will show clips of Paul's testimony from the trial. I won't make you sit through him detailing every bit of what Timothy went through,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He also had another sister and a brother who I believe lived with their father for most of their lives. According to Timothy's mother, he was actually diagnosed with autism, ADHD, bipolar disorder and sensory processing disorder. He was also said to have motor impairments such as lack of coordination as well as speech issues. I don't know the specifics of the speech and motor impairment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Denn ich weiß, dass ich es einmal durchsitzen konnte, als ich dir sagte, dass es genug war. Ich habe sein gesamtes Testimonial geschaut und es war sehr schwierig, durchsitzen zu können. Es gab Zeiten, in denen er seemed to have trouble remembering what he was wanting to say. But I also wonder if it was because, you know, he wanted to say things a certain way.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He wanted to make sure that he remembered certain details that his lawyers thought he should say. Things like that. Again, you can see him like sort of forgetting or trying to recall things accurately or at least how he wants to be telling them. But either way, throughout his testimony, I actually had to stop and close my laptop about 30 minutes through because it was just a lot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But watching him talk and the way he answers questions and the way he describes the situations is very interesting. So I will give you a look into his testimony.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I don't know if they were symptoms of his autism. I would assume they were, but they could have been separate diagnoses. Either way, according to Shonda, he had high functioning autism, so he was at grade level in school. And even though he had trouble concentrating, he was able to keep up with his academics. Timothy was known to have a very rough start to his very short life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
No. In the trial, they also brought forward the medical examiner, who testified about how Timothy died and the extent of neglect that Timothy's body showed he clearly went through. Again, he weighed only 69 pounds, which is about half of what he should have weighed at his size. According to Paul, when Timothy arrived to live with them, he said that Timothy was actually a bit chubby.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So it's not like Eric wasn't feeding him or that he was just really skinny. We all know someone who has a ridiculously fast metabolism and are skinny like to the bones no matter how much they eat. That was not the case for Timothy. He was starved, which is how he got so thin. He was also forced to sit in an ice bath for 9 plus hours while having zero body fat to insulate him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
His malnutrition, along with that ice bath, caused his death. This is 100% Shondas fault. He wasn't on a hunger strike. He didn't choose to sit in the ice bath. This is all 100% Shondas doing. The next thing they brought up in court were the videos that they found on those cameras. The video I'm about to describe to you is very disturbing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Back in 2012, when his family was living in Oklahoma, his mother Shonda was accused of child abuse. I believe at this time Timothy was living with both Shonda as well as his biological father Eric. The investigation into these claims resulting in CPS recommending that Shondas parental rights be terminated.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So disturbing that they didn't even show it at trial because of how upsetting it is. They only describe it and I will too. Just in case you had any other questions regarding whether or not Shonda acted with malice. So, the video is taken from the morning before Timothy is reported dead to police. I'm not sure how many hours. I don't know if it was in the middle of the night or if it was...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
eine Stunde oder so vorher, aber egal, in dem Video kannst du Shonda in den Schlauch platzieren und es ausbreiten. Du siehst dann Shonda, Timothy mit seinen Armen in den Schlauch und auf die Schlaufe drücken. Ich vermute, dass das war, nachdem er ihn aus dem Eisbad entfernt hat. Seine Augen sind aufgeräumt, aber er ist meistens unverantwortlich.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Er weint ein wenig, aber außerdem bewegt er sich nicht oder macht keine Geräusche. Sein Aussehen ist beschrieben als anstrengend. Er hat keine Schuhe oder Schuhe, nur die Schuhe. Du konntest also seine Beine sehen, die von dessen, wie schmutzig er war, ausdrücken. Du konntest seinen Bein sehen, du konntest seine Schulter sehen, sogar seine Hüfte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
In dem Video sagen die Offiziere, dass er kurze, scharfe Atemzüge aus seinem Mund nimmt, ähnlich wie ein Fisch aus Wasser atmet. So, Shonda klammert Timothys Mund auf und sagt ihm, dass er nicht so atmen muss. Sie hält seinen Mund auf für einige Zeit, bevor ich glaube, er beginnt zu atmen aus seinem Nase.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie wird dann von Timothys gehört, siehst du, du hast nicht so atmen müssen, du bist ein Dummy. Dann sagt sie, du bist pathetisch, aber ich wusste das bereits, als sie ihn in den Klosthaus drückt. Sie hat dann Timothy gesagt, dass er ihr die größte Entschuldigung in der Welt verdient hat. Sie verlässt ihn dann in dieser Schlaufe, die nur nach 15 Minuten zurückkehrt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Während dieser Zeit seht ihr, dass er langsam atmet und schlussendlich aufhört. Das ist, wenn es glaubt wird, dass Timothy gestorben ist. Also, das zeigt einfach, wie furchtbar ein Monster ist. Sie ist es wirklich. Nicht nur negliert Shonda ihn und zerstört ihn, sondern sie genießt es klar. Sie geht klar aus ihrem Weg, um ihn zu beliten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Selbst wenn er am Brink des Todes ist, ist es ihr nicht wichtig. Sie will ihn immer noch zerstören, so viel sie kann. Und sie will ihn beobachten. Sie will ihn sehen, als er langsam stirbt, als er leidet, als er Probleme mit dem Atmen hat. Sie will alles sehen. Die Verteidigung, auf der anderen Seite, sie sagten, dass Shonda den Schaden ihrer Aktionen nicht verstanden hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie wusste, dass sie Timothy verurteilt hatte, aber sie wusste nicht, wie schlimm sie ihn verletzt hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Despite being intelligent enough to go to law school and pass the bar and understand laws and how the laws work, she didn't understand the ultimate consequences of those individual acts of punishment, even though she had a great understanding of other people committing crime and what would happen to them. Sie hat es einfach nicht verstanden. Das Trial war schwer zu beobachten.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
However, Shonda ended up agreeing to relinquish custody to avoid a permanent termination of her parental rights. From there, Shonda apparently moved from place to place pretty frequently, having 18 different addresses spanning multiple states between 2012 and 2021. In 2016, Shonda went to Liberty University, where she earned her bachelor's degree in paralegal studies.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Es war ein schwieriges Mal, weil das Zuschauen von Shonda und dessen, wie sie durch das gesamte Ding reagiert hat, einfach so frustrierend und zerstörerisch war. Im Grunde genommen, waren Shondas Antworten auf die Beweise fast so, dass sie sie nicht erinnert hat. Sie hatte riesige Schmerzen in ihrer Erinnerung, fast jederzeit, wenn sie ihre Verletzungen erhielt haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
As they read text messages where Shonda is clearly instructing Paul to torture Timothy, she apparently had a panic attack and had to leave court and didn't have to come in the day after. I'm sure listening to that was uncomfortable, but I don't think she should have been allowed to leave. There were certain parts where Shonda didn't have to sit there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
There was an entire day where she didn't have to go. And I think that that is ridiculous. I think she should have been forced to sit and listen to everything Everything she put her poor son through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
When she was present, such as when Paul was testifying, you could see her just sitting there with a smug look on her face, shaking her head when he was talking about all of the awful things that she did. The date is 2-18-2022.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Dann, bei der Behandlung, hat Shonda den Stand in ihrer eigenen Verteidigung genommen. Ich habe auch alle ihre Testimonyen gesehen, die online vorhanden waren. Und die Art, wie sie spricht, ist auch bedrohlich. Sie sagt alles in einer sehr verteidigenden Art. Sie hat Beispiele für fast alles. Sie ist unemotional, sie ist sehr nachhaltig und nimmt keine Verantwortung für irgendwas.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Everything is someone else's fault, whether it be her ex-husband or Paul or Timothy himself for acting out and being bad. In Shondas Testimony, she started by telling the courts how Timothy came to be in her care. Like I said, he was with Eric until he was dropped off with her in May of 2021.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But by January of 2022, Adam had a stroke, leaving Shonda to be solely responsible for providing for the family. Shonda sagte, dass sie an dieser Zeit finanziell anstrengend war, was ich nicht glaubte, dass sie das war. Sie lebten Paycheck zu Paycheck, manchmal sogar nicht in der Lage, die Karten zu verdienen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Wie gesagt, Paul arbeitete auch part-time und helfte so viel wie er konnte, aber die meisten der finanziellen Verantwortung lag an Shonda. Sie bekam auch keine Kindertagesstatt von Eric, weil er noch zwei von ihren Kindern mit ihm lebte, also gab es nicht wirklich einen Grund, dass er sie bezahlen musste.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
By 2021, after moving around four years, Shonda finally settled in North Shores, Michigan. By 2018, Shonda went to one of Michigan's top law schools, Western Michigan University Cooley Law School, on scholarship. She got 100% of her tuition covered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Es wurde auch gesagt, dass Shonda nicht Timothy zum Arzt bringen konnte, weil der Lack an Papier war. When Eric handed Timothy over, Shonda said that he arrived with a big bag of medications. She mentioned that she didn't like how the medications made Timothy act, saying that he was basically a zombie when he was on them. So she didn't want to give them to him,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Aber egal, ob sie es ihm geben wollte oder nicht, hat sie auch gesagt, dass sie ihm keine Medikamente geben oder sie nicht erfüllen konnte, weil sie ihn nicht zum Arzt bringen konnte. Sie konnte Timothy auch nicht zur Schule bringen, weil es nicht genug Papier gab, weshalb er auf einem Tablet nachgebildet wurde.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Im Grunde war es Erics Schuld, dass Timothy nicht zur Schule ging, seine Medikamente nicht bekam und nicht zum Arzt ging. Es ist Erics Schuld, dass Shonda Timothy nichts geben musste, um ein funktionierendes Kind zu werden. Shonda hat dann angefangen zu sprechen, wie schlimm Timothys Verhalten war. Timothy hatte Probleme, sich an Dinge zu beschäftigen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie sagte, dass wenn Eric ihn überholt hat, sagte Timothys Großmutter, dass sie die ganze Nacht aufstehen würde, um sicherzustellen, dass Timothy keine Probleme hatte, nur schlafen zu lassen, als er in der Schule war. Timothy liebte auch, Dinge zu entfernen, wie Batterien und solche Dinge. Ihr anderer Sohn, wiederum genannt als G. in der Behandlung, hatte auch einige behaviorale Probleme.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Es war ein Sicherheitsproblem für beide von ihnen. Deshalb sagte Shonda, dass sie Motionsensoren und Videos in der Wohnung verwendet hat, um sicherzustellen, dass sie nicht nur Timothy, sondern auch G. monitorieren konnte. Sie wollte nur, dass alle sicher bleiben. Timothy war auch offensichtlich in den Backofen geschnitten und das Essen, das nicht sein war, genommen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie sagte, dass es einmal war, als Shonda einen 2-Pound-Sack von Chicken Nuggets gekauft hat und sie in den Friseur gesetzt hat. Sie ging zu Arbeit eines Tages, aber als sie nach Hause kam, hatte Timothy den ganzen Sack Nuggets gegessen. Er hat sie nicht sogar aufgewärmt, also waren sie immer noch gefroren, als er sie gegessen hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
It was because of things like that that Shonda started monitoring the pantry and the fridge to keep Timothy safe. She also addressed the hot sauce thing, where she was only allowing him to eat bread covered in hot sauce or having it directly poured into his mouth. She acknowledged that it was a punishment, yet in the same breath, she said that Timothy actually liked spicy foods.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He loved the hottest of the hot when it came to spiciness. Sie hat auch gesagt, dass sie nicht wusste, wie heiß der Hot Sauce eigentlich war, weil sie es nicht probiert hat. Sie mag nicht scharfe Füße und sie wollte keinen verletzten Mund, wenn sie es probiert hat.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Währenddessen war sie einer der sieben Rezipienten, die den Leadership Achievement Award erhielt, der den Lehrstunden, die konsistente, komprehensive und effektive Leidenschaft in einer Vielfalt von Kapazitäten bieten. Bis 2021 hat sie von der Lehrstunde mit Honoren graduiert. and subsequently passed her bar exam.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Also, anstatt es selbst zu probieren, hat sie es aufs Brot für ihn gebraten und es in seinen Mund gebraten und sogar auf seine Genitalien gebraten wollen. Das klingt nicht nach jemandem, der leckere Essen genießt. Natürlich kenne ich es nicht. Natürlich denke ich nicht an Timmy, der Sensorprobleme hat, wie leckere Essen. Entschuldigung, ich kenne es nicht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Ein weiterer von Timothys Verhalten war, dass er die Alarmen, die alle durch die Hausaufgabe, in der Mitte der Nacht oder durch die ganze Nacht, aufgerufen hätte, um die Familie wach zu halten. Also, diese Verletzungen, über die wir gesprochen haben, wo sie Timothy nicht schlafen oder sich komfortabel machen würde, das war wegen dessen, dass er die Familie wach machte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Es war ein Geruch seiner eigenen Medizin. Was ich auch nicht glaube, weil wir wissen, dass Timothy die lauten Geräusche nicht mag. Also warum hätte er die Geräusche aufgeräumt? I think he wasn't purposely setting them off. I think he was just trying to get food and that's when the alarms were going off. Or he was trying to get out of the closet and that's when the alarms were going off.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Or he simply tried moving his body and that's what set the alarms off. I don't think he was purposely doing it. Das ist eine persönliche Notwendigkeit. Ich glaube nicht, dass Timothy Verhältnisse hatte. Ich verurteile nichts davon. Ich denke, Timothy hatte wahrscheinlich einige Verhältnisse.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Das ist der Grund, warum Kinder mit Diagnosen wie ADHD und Autismus in Therapie gehen, wie in der Occupational Therapie, um die richtigen selbstregulierenden Verhältnisse zu lernen. Such as when to eat, what to eat, how to respond to emotions. But instead of being kind and gentle and getting Timothy the help that he needed, she decided to punish him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
In my opinion, I do think that as a response to his behaviors, Shonda wanted to make Timothy suffer as much as possible. I think that with Adam around, Timothy was either a little bit more in check or Adam was able to help out with his behaviors and, you know, make it a little bit easier on Shonda.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But as soon as he left, either Timothy started to act out more because that's what kids do when there's only one parent in the house. Sometimes they think they can get away with more. Either that or Shonda just... wanted to abuse him the entire time and wouldn't do it in front of Adam because he would either stop her or think she's a horrible person, which she is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So as soon as Adam left, that is when everything happened. And again, she was sick of his behaviors. So she just starved Timothy. As a part of the cross-examination during Shonda's testimony, she was made to read a text conversation where she ordered Paul to wake Timothy up and give him hot sauce, where she told Paul to give Timothy multiple ice baths. where she told Paul not to feed Timothy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
To every text message, every instance of abuse, she simply said that she didn't remember. She blacked out. However, to other random things, she suddenly had perfect memory. For example, there was one text conversation that she noticed took place at around 6pm on one random evening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Somehow, she did not remember the entire text conversation, but she remembered very clearly that she was at a baseball game for her 7-year-old that day during the text conversation that she didn't remember. In another instance, they talked about Timothys weight. The attorney misspoke when he said Timothy weighed 106 pounds and immediately Shonda corrected him, saying it was 104 pounds.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
After that, Shonda started working as a law clerk for two different circuit court judges in Western Michigan. As Shonda was working hard and succeeding in her personal life, Timothy was living with his father, Eric. By May of 2021, Timothy and his father also moved to North Shores, Michigan. I'm not sure if Eric stayed in the area or moved away right away.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Crazy how she had such perfect memory of his weight, but didn't remember the texts that accompanied them. She had random blackouts that were perfectly timed with every text, every act of abuse. But other things, she had amazing, spectacular memory, very, very detailed memory of random things that most people would not remember.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
There was one part of this cross-examination where she talked about how well she took care of these tomato and cucumber plants that she got for Mother's Day. And the attorney made a little comment saying, the plants never miss a feeding, do they? Of course, the defense objected to this, but this was just a small thing in the trial that I thought was so juicy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I love that this attorney has absolutely no problem calling Shonda out on her absolute bullshit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I believe that Shonda was originally from Alabama before she and the family lived in Oklahoma. So I'm not sure where Eric falls in all of that or if he was close by Michigan. My assumption was that he was not close and that he either went back to Oklahoma or somewhere else. You will see why I assume that in just a few minutes, but I don't think it's ever like overtly stated in any of this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
In der nächsten Teil von Shandas Cross-Examination sprechen sie über einige der Verletzungen, die sie Timothy gegeben hat. Einige von denen hat sie gesagt, dass sie natürlich nicht erinnert ist. Eine davon sagt, dass sie Timothy in der Mitte der Nacht als Verletzung für ihn gehalten hat, um sie mit diesen Sensoren wach zu lassen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
However, by May of 2021, Eric asked Shonda if Timothy could go back to living with her. It is reported differently, depending on what source you look at and who you ask. Honestly, again, this part of the case isn't totally clear. Eric hat noch nie darüber gesprochen, also wissen wir nicht von seiner Seite.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie spricht auch über den Text, den sie von Paul bekommen hat, in dem er ihr ein Foto von Timothy sendet, der krank und unter Gewicht aussieht. Sie hat ihm gesagt, ihm etwas Brot zu geben. And she claimed that she didn't actually mind that Paul gave Timothy more than just bread, claiming that she just didn't think to tell Paul to give him something else.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
She said bread because that's the one thing she thought of, but she's actually happy that he also made him some eggs that day. Sie behauptet auch, dass sie ihn am Abend vor seinem Tod ernährt hat und ihm ein warmes Schlafzimmer gedreht hat, um ihn sich zu fühlen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
In Bezug auf das, zeigte die Behörde Shonda ein Bild, wie Timothy sich vor und nach seinem Tod angesehen hat, wie zerstört und ermächtigt Timothy war. In Bezug darauf, schlug Shonda auf und begann zu weinen. Dieser Clip wird dich wahrscheinlich emotional machen, zumindest habe ich das gemacht.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Die Mutter, die Timothy durch so horrifische Verbrechen und Zerstörung verursacht hat, konnte nicht einmal darauf achten, was sie gemacht hat. Ich denke, dass ihre emotionale Antwort wahr war, weil sie sich nicht in meiner Meinung herausgezogen hat. Sie hat sich nicht für etwas geäußert.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I think this was a genuine reaction and just seeing that reaction kind of solidifies to me how horrible it truly must have been for Timothy. Obviously, hearing everything he went through is horrific, but to me, her reaction to those photos makes everything feel much more real. And the way the attorney presented those photos is just gold. He knows exactly what he's doing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Aber laut Shonda hat sie gesagt, dass Eric eines Tages zu ihr gerufen hat und gesagt hat, dass Timothée zu viel zu behandeln geworden sei. Er war ausgewogen und hat seine Knöpfe gedrückt, sodass er gesagt hat, dass er Timothée nicht mehr kümmern kann. Also hat Shonda sich entschieden, Timothée zurückzunehmen und für ihn zu kümmern.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Shonda also claimed at the trial that most of the abuse was actually Paul's idea. She said that Paul was the one who purchased the ankle shackles with his Amazon account. He also was the one who bought the hot sauce. He picked it out and said specifically that it would be a good punishment for Timothy. He was the one that gave her that idea for the hot sauce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So again, in May of 2021, Timothy was now living with Shonda, his older brother Paul, his younger brother again who is only referred to as G, as well as Shondas new husband Adam. Once with Shonda, however, there were never any legal arrangements made to hand custody over to Shonda.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie hat den Blut auf ihren Sohn für alles gelegt. Wir können von den Textmessagen sehen, dass das nicht der Fall ist, dass Shonda Paul so viele schreckliche Dinge anruft. Aber auch wenn es alles Pauls Idee war, ist es immer noch Shondas Verantwortung, Timothy sicher zu halten. Wenn sie wusste, dass Paul Timothy verabschiedet hat, ist es ihre Verantwortung, einen Stopp zu machen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Aber sie hat es nicht gemacht. Warum? Weil sie der Verabschiedete war. Basically, to summarize Shondas excuses for the horrific treatment of her son, she said that she was barely functioning herself. She had her own mental health struggles and she had low blood sugar, requiring a service dog to help her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
She said that she was barely even functioning, blacking out all the time, having missing bits of memory. When asked how she could possibly not know that Timothy was as bad as he was, Sie hat gesagt, das ist die erste echte Sache, die Shonda die ganze Reise gesagt hat. Sie ist ein Verlust. Sie ist ein Verlust als menschlicher Mensch. Sie ist ein Verlust von Raum und ein Verlust von Atem.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Und sie muss keine Mutter werden und sie wird nie werden. Nach fast einer Woche Behandlung und Verteidigung haben beide ihre Schlussfolgerungen gemacht. Die Verteidigung hat gesagt, dass Shonda einen Verbrecher ist, der ihren 15-jährigen Sohn verurteilt hat, um ihn zu verurteilen. Sie wusste genau, was sie machte. Sie wusste, dass er einen langweiligen, schmerzhaften Tod erlebte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie wusste, dass er gestorben war. Sie wusste, dass er sterben würde. At some point in time, Shonda stopped seeing him as a human. She treated him like a prisoner in his own home. She killed him. She starved him to death. And she knew exactly what she was doing. Not only that, but she enjoyed it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Again, the defense argued that Shonda, an intelligent law school grad, didn't know the consequences of her own actions. She didn't know that she was harming Timothy. So the death was just an unfortunate accident. After both sides made their closing arguments, the jury was sent off for deliberations and after deliberating for just a few hours, they came back with their verdict.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
They found that Shonda Vanderaark is guilty for the first degree intentional murder of her son, Timothy Ferguson, as well as for first degree child abuse. Unfortunately, we don't know Shondas reaction because she didn't even have to sit there and face her verdict. Wegen ihrer psychischen Probleme konnte sie aussteigen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
According to Shonda, she asked Eric for certain documents to help her have actual custody, but he wouldn't provide those documents. Sie hat auch gesagt, dass sie versucht hat, Timothy zur öffentlichen Schule zu gehen, aber weil sie nicht die richtigen Dokumente hatte, konnte sie das nicht. Wegen dessen hat Shonda ihn für ein Home-Schooling-Programm eingeladen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I am assuming or I'm at least hoping that Shonda is sentenced to life in prison. She deserves nothing less. She is a subhuman piece of trash and she makes me wish that the death penalty was legal in Michigan, which as far as I understand it is not. But I really, really, really hope she has a horrible, horrible time in jail and I'm sure she will.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Ich bin mehr interessiert, wie Paul verurteilt wird. Ich freue mich auch wirklich darauf, zu hören, wie die Gerichte und wie ihr euch über Pauls Aufmerksamkeit in all dem fühlt. Jetzt für mich. Ich denke, dass Paul zu einer gewissen Art schlecht fühlt.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I don't know if he wanted to take part in the abuse, but from what we saw, there were times that Paul was frustrated with Timothy and other times where Paul expressed concerns to his mom and refused to do certain things. There were times that he was told to do things to Timothy and he didn't listen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
We also know that for some of the abuse that he did partake in, Shonda was watching through those cameras and talking to him as he did it. So there wasn't much way around doing as she said. As I stated, Paul did seem very frustrated with Timothy and I do think there was a lot of resentment there. Do I think he took pleasure in the abuse?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Ich kann es ehrlich nicht sagen, aber ich werde sagen, dass Paul sehr einfach manipuliert scheint. Und ich denke, dass das Sehen seiner Mutter für Timothy Schmerzen führte, führte auch seine Schmerzen für ihn. Lass mich erklären. Hast du jemals jemanden gehabt, den dein bester Freund absolut hasst, aber zuerst nicht ganz weißt, warum?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Ja, sie waren wirklich furchtbar, aber die Anzahl der Schmerzen, die dein Freund hatte, war erst etwas seltsam. But then you constantly hear the friend complaining about that person, how rude or annoying they are, all the bad things that they've ever done, etc. And all of a sudden you find yourself hating that person too.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Like my best friend hates this person and even though I don't have any beef with them, all of a sudden everything they do annoys me. I know I have. If one of my best friends constantly talks shit about someone they don't like, it's not long before I'm like, yeah, I hate them too.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
And it's literally because you've convinced yourself that they are all the things that your friend described them to be. But imagine that is your life every single day. Shonda telling Paul all of these awful things about Timothy. It happens slowly but surely getting worse and worse. It starts off by Shonda saying Timothy is bad. He gets into things. He steals food he isn't supposed to have.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He doesn't deserve snacks. He already ate enough. That grows into punishments for bad behavior. That might not actually be that bad, but to them is the worst thing that you could possibly do. He doesn't deserve to play. He doesn't deserve to be outside. He doesn't deserve to move, because if he does, he will get into things. He doesn't deserve clothes or a bed, because he will ruin them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He doesn't deserve privacy because he will do something naughty if he's left alone. He doesn't deserve food because if he eats, he will just be bad again. I know that what Paul did is horrible. It's unexcusable. He is an adult and he didn't have to live with his mother. He could have reported what she was doing to the police. He could have prevented Timothy's death and he didn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Wir kommen darauf später im Video zurück. Auf der Außenwelt sah es aus, als hätte Timothy keine Probleme, in sein neues Leben zu überwachen. Ja, es wäre schwer, aber er war zurück zu Hause mit seiner Mutter, die ihre zwei anderen Kinder mit ihrem neuen Mann betreut hatte. Seit diesen 2012-Angelegenheiten gab es keine anderen Probleme. Sie war in ihrem persönlichen Leben erfolgreich.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
So no, I don't have any sympathy for Paul going to jail. I actually think he got a much lighter charge than he deserves. Something in relation to Timothy's death I think is more appropriate. But I don't necessarily think that he did this to Timothy because he wanted to. If Shonda wasn't there, I don't think most of this or any of it would have happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
We have seen cases before where children are forced to abuse their siblings completely against their will and it severely damages them psychologically. However, there have also been people who abuse their siblings because they don't like them and they don't feel bad at all. I don't think we can say for certain what I think the situation here with Paul is.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
But again, he could have done so much to stop it. He was 19. He wasn't 12. He wasn't 14. He wasn't 16. He was an adult. He could have said no. He could have stopped it. But he didn't. Again, what I'm arguing or discussing here is not whether or not he's responsible for his actions or whether or not he deserves jail time or whether or not he even should go to jail for the murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Because all of those things, I think he should. I think he is responsible for what he did. I do agree with his charges, but I also think he should have gotten more and I hope he gets the maximum time in jail that he can. But what I'm wondering is whether or not he wanted to abuse his brother. Because I think that he did feel that Timothy deserved it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
And I think he was willingly participating for most of it. Again though, there were glimpses of times where Paul felt horrible about what he was doing. And again, he didn't take part in certain things. But again... He did take part in most of it, so I am glad that he's being charged. But now I want to know what you guys think.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Do you think that Paul wanted to abuse his brother or do you think he was manipulated by his mother? I think Shonda is a narcissist. She is a monster who clearly took pleasure in watching her son suffer. She clearly had abused her children long before any of this happened and so I'm also frustrated with Eric for dropping him off into a home where he knew that Shonda was abusive in the past.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He didn't seem to check in, he didn't seem to really care what happened to Timothy at all. So I do think he is partially to blame for this as well. And I do hope investigators are looking into that aspect of this. I don't know if there's any charges that can be brought with this, but I do hope that something happens with this whole area of the case. Denn Eric ist in allem nicht völlig unangenehm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Beide, die Verteidigungsanwältin und die Verwaltung, sagten, dass dies der schwierigste Fall war, den sie jemals vorgeschlagen haben. Die Details, die Fotos, die Fakten in diesem Fall waren literally the worst that some of these seasoned attorneys have ever seen. And I can't say I disagree. This may be the worst case that I've covered on this channel.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Obviously, Timothy did not deserve any of this. He deserved parents who loved him, who were willing to take him to therapies and get him treatments for his behaviors, rather than just punishing him for things that he can't control. But now all we can do is hear Timothy's story, make his name known and hope that his story can inspire others to do better. But that is all I have for today's case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Kinder mit Behinderungen. Kinder mit Behinderungen verdienen Eltern und Anwesende, die ihre Verhältnisse für das, was sie sind, sehen. Symptome ihrer Behinderung. So viele Kinder mit Behinderungen erleben die Welt so anders als die Rest der Bevölkerung.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
I know it was a long one. I know that it's a horrible one to sit through. I know hearing the details is absolutely horrific. I'm sure a lot of you, if not most of you, had to watch this video in pieces because it is a lot to sit down and take in all at one time. I know I had to break it up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
This case actually took me a few weeks to research, not just because I had to sit through all the trials and watch it and it is such a recent case. So I wanted to wait until we had the verdict, but also because it's just a traumatic one. But of course, Timothy's story needs to be told. He deserves justice and I hope that the jury gives both Shonda and Paul the punishments that they deserve.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie war klar intelligent und arbeitslos. Also gab es keinen Grund, zu denken, dass Shonda nur eine kapable, kompetente Mutter war. Was aber hinter den Szenen stattfand, war absolut horrifisch. Verrücktheit über das, was jeder sich vorstellen konnte, das ein Kind durchgehen könnte. Um 6.37 Uhr am Morgen des 6.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Which, as I'm saying that, won't happen because I think Shonda deserves starvation and hot sauce to the eyes. But that's just me. I have faith that the other prisoners won't treat her well. I'm very hopeful of that and I think she will have a horrible time in prison. But after hearing all of the details, I'm so curious to hear what you all think of this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
How much of this do you think was Paul's fault? Do you think that he also should have gotten murder charges? What do you think about his father just apparently dropping Timothy off? Do you think he could have done more? Let's discuss this and any other comments that you have down below. If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Don't forget to turn that notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you follow my Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. All will be linked down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Juli 2022 erhielt die Nordsteuerische Polizei eine Anrufung von Timothys älteren Bruder Paul, die berichtet hat, dass sie Timothy in der Wohnung totgefunden haben. Als die Polizei herrschte, gingen sie nach unten in den Wohnzimmer, wo sie den 15-jährigen Timothy Ferguson auf dem Boden totgefunden haben.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Initially, Shonda told officers that Timothy had been injured after falling off the top bunk in the bed that he was sleeping in. However, when officers assessed the scene and found Timothy's body, they knew that there was so much more going on than Shonda was letting on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
When they first entered the home, the police found that 7-year-old child running around, as well as Paul in the home, Timothy's older brother. Neither of them had any signs of abuse or neglect or anything like that. Both of them had seemed to have at least been treated decently.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
However, when examining Timothy's body, they found that he was wearing a sweatshirt, as well as a pair of jeans that looked to be way too big for him, as well as an adult diaper. Er sah extrem missbraucht aus, hatte absolut kein Fett oder Muskel auf seinem Körper. Die ersten Antworten beantworteten, dass er Haut und Beine hatte. In Wahrheit, damals, war 15-jähriger Timothy nur 69 Pfund.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Wir werden in wenigen Minuten mehr über Timothys Situation zurückkommen. In the home, investigators found that there were motion-activated cameras all throughout the home and there were locks on the freezer and fridge as well as an alarm on the pantry. Then, when police went into the basement, as soon as they got in there, they said that there was an overwhelming smell of feces and urine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
They described that Timothy's bed was in the common area of the basement, so that was his makeshift bedroom. In that bedroom there were cameras everywhere with a camera facing his bed and another camera under Timothy's bed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
This camera was described as facing the floor, like pretty much being turned over under the bed, so it couldn't see anything, but it could definitely hear what was going on because it was still turned on. Sie fanden auch einen Tisch im Wohnzimmer und in diesem Tisch entdeckten Anwesende ein Paar Metallbein-Schachteln, die gleichen Schachteln, die auf Gefühle verwendet werden.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Die beiden anderen Kinder hatten auch ihre eigenen Wohnzimmer im Wohnzimmer, aber sie hatten ihre eigenen Bereiche mit Türen. Now initially this made sense because Timothy came to live with them after the other two children were already there. So it wasn't a big deal that his bedroom was in the common area.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Sie hören Dinge anders, fühlen Dinge anders und manchmal kann die Welt extrem überwältigend sein, schädelnde oder unerwartete Verhältnisse zu verursachen. But for those children, they don't just need harsher punishment. They need somebody who will understand them and teach them strategies for how to cope, how to handle their emotions and self-regulate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
By the way, when I do refer to Timothy's siblings as children, I know that Paul is not a child. He was 19 at the time. But for the sake of the video and the fact that he was a child of Shonda, I'm just going to call them the kids unless I'm specifically referring to Paul in which obviously I will call him sein Name.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Egal wie, in diesem Wohnzimmer gab es auch eine Kamera, die sich gegen die Tür des siebjährigen Kindes in dem Wohnzimmer befindet. Und dann gab es auch ein Schlafzimmer im Wohnzimmer. Und in diesem Schlafzimmer gab es auch eine motion-sensorene Kamera.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Die Anwesenden beschreiben, dass sie, wenn sie in das Schlafzimmer schlug, die Kamera schlug und sich gegen sie bewegte und sie folgte, als sie durchgingen. Sie beschreiben auch, dass es in diesem Wohnzimmer verdammt dreckig war. Es gab dreckige ältere Schuhe überall auf dem Boden, von dort kam der Stink. Es gab auch keinen Schlafzimmer auf der Tüte und auf dem Sink war eine Schale von Hot Sauce.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Dann gab es in diesem Wohnzimmer ein kleines Gebäude unter den Stühlen, das eine Tür hatte, die sich in einen kleinen Schlauch öffnete. In that closet there was an alarm on the door that would go off if it was opened and there was a blue tarp and cardboard box lying on the floor in that closet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Right away, just based on the state that Timothy was found in, as well as those red flags within the home, obviously police knew that there was much more going on here, so they started their investigation. Zuerst haben sie Shonda gefragt, warum Timothy so schwer untergewachsen war. Und sie hat gesagt, dass Timothy drei Wochen vor seinem Tod einen Hungerstrike hatte.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Er hat nicht gegessen, obwohl sie versucht haben, ihn zu essen. According to Shonda, like I mentioned earlier, she had been living in the home with her two other kids as well as her husband, Adam. Timothy had joined the family back in May of 2021. However, by January of 2022, Adam actually suffered from a stroke, which left him unable to get his way around the house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
He couldn't go up and down the stairs, he couldn't really take care of himself, so he needed a lot of help with his day-to-day living. Also, Adam hat sich damals aus dem Haus ausgewählt und mit seinen Eltern eingeladen, damit sie ihm mit seinen neuen Bedürfnissen helfen konnten. Ich glaube, er war damals in Florida.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Es war dann, als der Schmerz stattfand, laut Shonda, dass Timothy anfing, sich auszuwählen und sich zu essen zu lassen. Sie sagte, dass er fast nichts für die zwei Wochen vor seinem Tod gegessen hat, aber sie gab ihm etwas Toast am Abend vor seinem Tod. In der Zwischenzeit, als Shonda über ihren Sohn gestorben wurde, wurde Timothys Körper an den Mediziner für eine Autopsie gesendet.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Der Mediziner fand, dass Timothy absolut ermächtigt war. Er stand fünf Fuß acht Inch alt, das ist nur die gewünschte Höhe für einen 15-jährigen Jungen. However, again, he weighed only 69 pounds. That is almost half the normal weight for a boy his height and age. Let that sink in. That is how underweight Timothy was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
His body had broken down so badly from the starvation that his muscles had wasted away and his ligaments were detaching from the bone. Based on this, of course, Shonda was arrested and charged with her son's murder as well as on child abuse charges.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Someone who will teach them kindly and patiently what behaviors are acceptable and what behaviors are not. Because children aren't just born with coping mechanisms. They aren't born with the ability to understand the world around them. Unfortunately, Timothy Ferguson was robbed of that. Unfortunately, Timothy Ferguson was robbed of that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Nach weiteren Untersuchungen entdeckte die Polizei tatsächlich Textmessungen zwischen Shonda und ihrem 19-jährigen Sohn Paul, die zeigen, dass er sehr viel in der Verbrechung und Zerstörung seines 15-jährigen Bruders beteiligt war. Ein paar Tage nachdem Shonda verhaftet und beurteilt wurde, brachten die Polizei Paul in die Station, um ihn zu beurteilen.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
und was Paul zu sagen hatte, war bemerkenswert, um es so zu sagen. Nun, bevor wir in das, was Paul zu sagen hatte, über alles sprechen, möchte ich jetzt bemerken, dass, basierend auf den Textmessagen zwischen Paul und Shonda, es klar war, dass Paul mit seinem Bruder frustriert war. Er grew sick of his behaviors, even saying in one text message, I'm ready to kill Timothy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
In other messages the two of them both accused Timothy of faking his special needs.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Als sie darüber sprachen, wie sie Timothy verurteilt haben, was ich in einer Minute beschreiben werde, hat Paul seine Mutter geschrieben, dass er immer noch dumm versucht hat, aber ich werde dir morgen noch mehr erzählen, während ich dich zur Arbeit bringe, wie viele verschiedene Wege ich beweisen kann, dass er verurteilt hat. Er tut es immer noch, aber es ist außergewöhnlich.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
WICKED: "Mother" From HELL Tortures and Starves Her Disabled Son to Death: Shanda Vander Ark
Also, meiner Meinung nach, denke ich, dass Paul frustriert war, Timothy zu haben und nicht unbedingt mag, mit ihm zu handeln. But according to Paul, most of the abuse and punishments were at the direction of his mother. So Paul told investigators that Timothy had started sneaking into the pantry and taking food that he didn't need, such as sweets and other snacks.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Hello everyone, my name is Rachel and welcome back to another true crime video.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Well, they sent the DNA off for testing through CODIS and by November 17th, they got a match. This match belonged to a 21-year-old man named Jalen Watson. Jalen had just gotten out of prison on August 6th after completing a sentence for burglary, and he was on parole at that time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then, going through Facebook searches, they also found that Jalen was associated with a 24-year-old man named Deano Gordon, who was also on parole for burglary. Then, they used their phone numbers to look through the location data on the morning of November 10th. That morning, both phone numbers pinged off of towers that followed the sequence of the robberies.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
At the time of the first robbery, starting at 4.40 a.m., their phone pinged off of the tower nearest that first home. Same thing with the second robbery and for the time that Amanda was believed to have been murdered, which was at 6.25 a.m. Then the pings followed where the stolen debit card was used. First, at 6.39 AM, it showed their phones pinging to the closest tower to that ATM.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So, when they got married, of course they had some things that they needed to work through, such as how to communicate with one another. They did go to counseling for this, and things seemed to be going really great for them. Amanda was described as being an amazing person with a huge heart. She was someone who brought joy to her family. Her mother described that Amanda was a gift from day one.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then at 6.54 AM, their phones pinged closest to the ATM where someone successfully took out $400. Then if you think back to that person that other witnesses saw walking around that same morning in the neighborhood, Their phones also indicate that they were in that same area around that same time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then police looked at who Jalen was communicating with that morning, and they found another phone number that belonged to an 18-year-old teenager named Larry Taylor Jr. Larry Taylor also had a criminal history, including misdemeanor charges of public nudity and indecency after he exposed himself to a woman in a parking lot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So then police went and found out a number that Jalen had once given his parole board and that number belonged to his sister. Police went ahead and spoke with the sister who told police that Jalen, Deanna, and Larry were all at her apartment on the night before the burglaries. She told the police that the three of them left her home at 3.30 a.m. the morning of November 10th.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
In her closet, police found a black vest, which the sister said belonged to her boyfriend, but Jalen liked to wear it as well. Then she said that on the morning of November 10th, one of these three was wearing that dark vest, which, as we heard from before, is consistent with something that a man was seen wearing by a witness.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then the sister gave police a 9mm pistol that either Jalen or Diano had brought to her apartment and left under her bed. Then police found another witness who provided them information as a confidential informant, so we don't know the identity of this person, but this person told the police that Larry, Jalen, and Diano left the apartment that morning while Larry was carrying his .38 revolver.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
The informant said that he was possibly wearing a dark vest at the same time. This person described how Larry climbed into that first apartment where they stole the woman's phone and her car keys while she was asleep. The men found out that they were on video, so that is when they disabled the cameras.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
After taking the phone and the car, the CI said that Larry actually said that he wanted to kill the woman because he was seen on camera But the person said that Jalen and Deanna convinced Larry to leave. So they all left together in the Sebring. According to the CI, they wanted more money, so they drove to a nearby subdivision where they broke into the next home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
The three men all entered this home this time and stole all of the items that we discussed earlier. But after that, the group decided that they still wanted more. So according to the CI, the group went to Amanda's home on foot. The CI said that only Larry and Jalen went inside while Deanna waited in the Sebring, which was parked in the driveway.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
a short time later apparently jalen came out to the car and told diano that larry just busted a woman's mouth with a gun he said that jalen tried to get larry to leave but larry went outside and threw some debit cards in the car and i guess he went back inside of the home then jalen and diano left to go to different atms before they got that four hundred dollars
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
After that, Jalen and Diano considered leaving Larry at the house, but Larry said that he would kill the woman if they left him. So they went back to the house to pick up Larry before they drove to the other neighborhood to drop off the car where it was later found. After that, the three met up at another apartment, I believe either where his sister lived, but I'm not 100% sure.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
It could have been somewhere else. either way that was where larry had told diano and jalen that he had actually murdered the woman that they were robbing he told them that the woman charged at him so he shot her somewhere in her upper body so that he wouldn't be scratched then he said that when she fell down after he shot her He leaned over her body and shot her in the back of the head.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
She said that Amanda never gave her any trouble growing up or when she was an adult. Those who knew Davey said that Amanda was the piece of Davey that had been missing. She literally completed him. Amanda and Davey were absolutely devoted to their faith. After getting married, Devi and Amanda lived in South Carolina, where Devi worked as an assistant pastor at New Spring Church.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He said that he then leaned over further, looked at her face, and watched her bleed. I guess he wanted to confirm that she died or something like that, but that is just a whole nother really messed up aspect to this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Of course, the cell phone data pings all show where these men were at the times of the robberies and the murder, but the CI was able to tell investigators pretty much exactly how this whole thing went down and was able to say who at least claimed to have been the one who pulled the trigger.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So, Larry ended up being charged with 13 charges, including murder, burglary, criminal confinement while armed with a deadly weapon, and robbery resulting in serious bodily injury. Jalen faced 10 charges of murder, burglary, robbery resulting in serious bodily injury and auto theft. Deanna was also charged with burglary and theft and he was later charged with murder as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then it came out that Larry was also allegedly involved with the shooting death of another man. The body of 27-year-old Rolando Gonzalez Hernandez was found next to his car at his apartment complex after he had been shot in the head. Witnesses told authorities that Larry admitted to them that he robbed and shot someone at the apartment complex where Rolando was later found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He told the witnesses that he, quote, robbed and shot a Mexican and found $10 in his wallet. That took place on November 4th, a week before Amanda was murdered. Then he allegedly told another witness that he broke into the home of another woman and raped her at gunpoint. Now, with Amanda's murder, as we know, she was found half nude with her underwear next to her and her shirt pulled up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
However, according to investigators, they said that they couldn't find any conclusive evidence of her actually being raped or sexually assaulted, so they weren't able to charge him with anything relating to sexually assaulting Amanda. But after all of that, Jalen also faced charges for two murders now.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
rape for the other woman who he admitted to, and the burglaries of the other homes on the morning of November 10th. The process of getting the plea deals, getting to the trial, all of that actually took quite a while. But after two years, two to three years, I believe, D'Anno and Jalen ended up taking plea deals in exchange for testifying against Larry at his bench trial.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
And for that, the charges of murders were dropped for them. So Jalen was handed a sentence of 29 years in prison, while Deanna was sentenced to 30 years. Larry's first trial for Amanda's murder didn't take place until December of 2021.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
During this trial, I guess his defense attorney successfully argued to not tell the jury about Amanda's unborn baby, which I really don't understand since a baby died because of his actions and initially he was charged for that death, but... I guess not. I guess it's not relevant. But either way, during that first trial, jurors actually found out that she was pregnant when she was killed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So the judge ordered a mistrial, I guess because it would make the jury more sympathetic, which they should be. They should be because he took the life of a woman and a baby, but that's a whole nother conversation. The second trial took place in June of 2022.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
However, this trial was also declared as a mistrial because apparently several jurors found out about the first mistrial and they had been discussing that information with one another. So then finally, the third trial for Amanda's murder took place in October of 2022. The evidence they relied on was the testimony from Deanna and Jalen, the cell phone data, and other witness accounts.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
By 2012, they went on to move back to Indianapolis, where they opened the Resonant Church, which was a church tailored to young people. They talked a lot of relationship advice, conflict resolution, and things like that. Soon after getting married, the couple went on to have their first son, Weston. Amanda was described as being a doting, dedicated mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
And by September of 2022, a verdict was reached. Larry Taylor was found guilty of murder, one level one felony burglary, two level four felony burglaries, and two counts of theft, criminal confinement, auto theft, and carrying a handgun without a license. To this, he was sentenced to 86 years behind bars.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
And I do believe that Larry was not ever convicted of the other murder and rape as far as I have been able to see. I don't think he ever went to trial. I don't know if they're just not able to find enough evidence beside the witness testimony, which if that's all they do have, then I can see why it's difficult to take it to trial. But
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
As far as I know, he's only in jail for the things related to those other burglaries as well as to Amanda's murder. That is normally where I would end most cases. However, with this case, some people think that there is more to this case than a situation of a random home invasion that ended in murder. Some people think that Davey is suspicious and that he may even have some sort of involvement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Some people even think that he ordered the execution of his wife. Now I will discuss some of the information that has led people to this conclusion. First, a lot of people think that just after Amanda's death, Davey sort of jumped on the opportunity to make money off of the tragedy, to capitalize off of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
A lot of the information that I will tell you is either rumored or circumstantial and any allegations are just alleged. That is what I want to say from the get-go in case I forget to say it throughout. None of this, or at least most of it, is not confirmed. Just allegations or rumors. But with that, let's talk about it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So the first thing that people from Amanda's family have said is that just two months before Amanda's murder, Davey took out a sizable life insurance policy on her. So the amount of time that he had to wait before it took effect was eight weeks. And almost right after it took effect, Davey got that life insurance policy and he benefited from it big time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Now, some people might say it was because she was pregnant with their second child. So... They took out the insurance policy right after they found out that she was pregnant again. That could be possible, but it also was right before this murder, right before she died, so that's a really big red flag to a lot of people.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Another thing that people find odd is some of the statements that he made after the murder. Now, I will get more into this later, but Davey runs a blog, a podcast, and all different forms of media. He has a website. He writes posts about his own life, advice columns, and everything about faith and things like that. He puts on sermons. He does different talks.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He, you know, goes on tours, things like that. So the first statement that he made was just hours after Amanda's death. It reads, quote, It's impossible to communicate all of the emotions my heart has been forced to process. My wife was such a beautiful, gracious, loving woman of God. I have not only lost my ministry partner and my support, but also my very best friend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
There is no way to prepare yourself for circumstances like these. As deeply as I am hurting, I'm hopeful and confident that good things will come of this. I rest in the truth of Romans 8 28 that God works all things together for the good of people who love him and who are called according to his purpose. Amanda made it her life's calling to love and serve everyone she knew.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
She was nurturing, loving, and she loved cuddling with her baby boy. Soon after that, when Weston was about nine months old, Amanda became pregnant with their second child. However, everything in their lives changed in the worst possible way on November 10th, 2015. According to Davey, he left the home that he shared with his wife at around 6 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Even more, she has made it her life's mission to see as many people as possible come to know Jesus as their personal savior. I know that in her death and legacy, even more people will come to a saving faith in Christ. Some people are disturbed by the fact that he said the best is yet to come literal hours after his wife's murder. Then he started with the saying, nothing is wasted.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
And again, that was said just hours after her death. Then at her funeral, he kept tweeting out the hashtag NothingIsWasted, literally as her body is being lowered into the ground, he's trying to get a hashtag trending on Twitter. Then just days after her funeral, Davey legally registered the domain name NothingIsWasted and branded her tombstone with that quote.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Now he has a podcast, book, website, and all different things with that name. So a lot of people question, how did he have the headspace? And in fact, why would he even have the headspace to start branding his wife's death literal hours after it happened? Then there's another blog post where he makes a statement about the morning that he found his wife murdered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
This post is dated April 14th, 2016, so just a few months after the murder. In part, it reads, quote, On November 10th, everything changed. It was a normal Tuesday morning. I woke up at around 4.30 a.m., read my Bible for a bit, grabbed my gym clothes, and headed out for a workout. When I returned home to shower, I walked into a reality I'd never wish on anyone.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
My home had been broken into and Amanda was lying on the floor unconscious with three gunshot wounds, one to the head. I don't really know how anyone is expected to process a moment like that. I suppose I'll attempt to explain more one day on this blog, but for now, the only way I can describe it is everything seemed to be a slow motion blur as all my worst fears became reality.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I called 911 as soon as I could and the paramedics rushed Amanda to the hospital. The next 24 hours were a waiting game to see if the swelling in her brain would subside and give us any hope of her survival. Mid-morning on November 11th, the doctors informed me that there was no brain activity and that she would not recover.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I know it seems I'm writing all of this very matter-of-factly, as if it doesn't carry with it a slew of emotions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'll spend future posts reflecting on those first 24 hours and the days thereafter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
All I can tell you now is from that moment, a countless number of people have wrapped their arms around Weston and me and have lovingly walked us through these past five months. You truly cannot go through a tragedy like this alone. A lot of people read that and feel that the way it's written sounds a bit narcissistic. The way it was written seems to be a little bit distant to some.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
It seems like something someone would write if they were years and years and years away from the tragedy. but it is still a very fresh wound. The other thing people point to is that in his statement, he feels the need to explain why he went home after the gym. It's strange because there shouldn't be an explanation for why he came home. It's his home and he was done working out, so he came home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
that morning to go work out at the LA Fitness while Amanda stayed home and asleep. He said that when he left, he left the front door unlocked as he normally did when he left for the gym in the morning. He did his workout and then left the gym about an hour later at 7.10 a.m., As he was driving home, he said that he was talking on the phone with a friend.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Some people think that this is sort of a way to anticipate a question as to why he was home, so he had a reason rather than just trying to say that he came home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
if he had some sort of involvement that would be his reason for coming home and wanting to conveniently find her instead he came up with the story that he needed to be home for the shower that he wasn't just coming home because he wanted to that there was a reason that he was in that place at that time was because he needed to shower whereas normally if you were totally innocent and you just happened to find your significant other dead on the floor
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
that you wouldn't really need an explanation for why you came home, just that you were there. Some also point out how he refers to his home as my home rather than our home. There is a distancing between himself and Amanda in that moment. With such a close relationship as marriage, there's a lot of us and we and basically everything. But to him, this is his home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So, does that show that he had some sort of negative feelings towards Amanda when he found her? Does that mean that he felt that it was his home and that she was just living in it? Or is it just like an innocent sort of statement that he made? Then he also mentions nothing about his unborn child in this post.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He only talks about his concern for Amanda, but he does not show any concern for hoping that his unborn child will survive. A lot of people will criticize that, but out of everything that I am talking about with this post in specific, that is something that really stuck out to me. He didn't say, you know, the next 24 hours we're waiting to see if, you know, Amanda and our baby would survive.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
It was just if Amanda would survive as if he didn't even pay any attention to the unborn child that was in her womb at the time. that does stand out a lot to me. Then some people point out the fact that he wrote, I called 911 as soon as I could. Some people argue that this is persuasive language, that he is trying to convince the reader that if there was a delay in him calling 911,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
that it's something that he couldn't have prevented, that he called 911 as soon as he could. Some people think that it's not necessary to include that. They think that an innocent person would just mention that they called 911 without trying to persuade the reader that there may have been some justified delay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
When it comes to his involvement, we sort of picked apart the different things that could point towards that in terms of, you know, him possibly being narcissistic and making these strange statements. But there is a couple of other things. So, next. Only about a year after the murder, Davey decided to write a book about the situation called...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Nothing is wasted, the thing that he branded almost immediately after her death. He said that he is writing about his pain through the tragedy and the trials and the entire process. He said that he planned to release the book after the two-year anniversary date of Amanda's death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
some people just find it very suspicious that immediately after her death and literally within a year that he's already trying to profit so greatly off of his wife's murder then people question his story from that morning so those who knew the family say that on a normal day Davey actually always left for the gym at 5 30 a.m he said himself that morning that he woke up at 4 30 but on this day he didn't leave for the gym until six
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So, why was he delayed this morning? It didn't seem like he woke up any later than he normally did. What was he doing between that time? Then the family said that his workouts are usually longer than an hour, but on this day, it was only 45 minutes. Like I said earlier, he left the house at 6 and left the gym by 7, so it was about an hour span of time, but that doesn't include driving time, so...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
his workout was about 45 minutes rather than an hour then he sort of rushed home only to sit on the phone in his driveway for almost an hour people have said i don't know if this is totally confirmed but it was said that he got out of the car multiple times while talking on the phone and looked in the window so some people have questioned why he needed to stay in the car for the call in the first place why didn't he go inside did he not want his wife to hear what was on this call
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
When he got home at around 7.30 a.m., he was still on the phone with this friend. He sat in the driveway, so in his car in the driveway, talking on the phone, saying that he didn't want to go inside and wake Amanda and Weston up by talking, so he stayed in the car and talked on the phone. He finally entered his home at around 8.20 a.m. after the conversation was over.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Or did he know that she was being murdered and he wanted to make sure that he waited enough time for them to leave or waited enough time so that she would actually be dead or waited for enough time for the other neighbors to call 911 if he knew about those robberies? Why did he wait so long in the car?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Now, he claimed that he stayed on the phone in the driveway for so long because he didn't want to wake up his son or wife. But those who knew the both of them said that there's no way that Amanda and the baby would have still been asleep at 8 a.m. And Davey knew that. He knew that they would have been awake after 7 a.m. when he got home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
There was no reason to think that he would have woken them up if he came in the house and was talking on the phone. I also believe that they had a two-story house, so it doesn't really make sense that he would be talking so loudly that he would wake them up. And if he was worried about that, he could have just talked a little bit quieter. So why did he stay in the car on the phone for so long?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
The other aspect of this case is that the family actually has a dog. They have a boxer. So a boxer, the dog breed. The family said that the driveway to the house is actually pretty short. So you would have been able to hear a dog barking from where he was in his car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
If Amanda was murdered by a man who broke into their home, their dog would have been barking like crazy, just like any other dog would. Even if the intruder locked the dog in another room or something like that, it would still be barking its head off. But there's never any mention of the dog anywhere. Even the men that broke into the house, as far as I know, never mentioned the dog being inside.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So was the dog let out before he left for the gym? Conveniently so that, you know, the dog wouldn't alert Amanda. Why would the intruders choose a house with a dog anyways? When they broke in, you'd think that the dog would start barking and that they might either leave or maybe they did put the dog outside.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But in my opinion, a lot of people would be deterred from a dog being inside, especially because that would alert the owner right away. Why risk going into a house with a large dog that's barking at you just to steal some things when you could easily just leave and go to a different house that doesn't have a dog?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then, like I just said, the other weird thing is that if he heard the dog barking, which according to those who knew the house and the layout, he should have heard the dog barking. How can he claim that he didn't hear it or did he just ignore the dog barking for that long while he was on the phone? Both of those situations look pretty bad for him and I don't really know how he could explain that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then at the trial, reporters who were live tweeting the trial stated that Jalen was changing his story. Like I said, he was testifying at the trial against Larry about him being the murderer. So when he was testifying, first he said that Larry killed Amanda to stop her from lunging at him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But in another story, he said that Larry was trying to rape her and she was fighting him off, so he murdered her. The family thinks it's strange as well that if there was such a violent altercation with him trying to rape her, that there was no DNA on her body that matched Larry. they think that the reason for the changing stories might be because they're hiding something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
If they were hired to kill her, then obviously they would have to come up with some other reason for killing her. Some people even think that all of these other burglaries were sort of set up to make it look like this was just a random attack, when in reality, the entire thing was planned so that, you know, Devi would never be suspected. That, you know, oh, these people...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
However, when he walked through the front door, he saw that 28-year-old Amanda was laying face down on the living room floor. She was partially nude with her underwear next to her and her shirt pulled up over her head as if someone was trying to take it off of her. and she was lying in a pool of blood.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
burglarized all of these other houses and then ended with amanda and murdered her so that's clearly how this entire thing happened but some people questioned why amanda was the only one harmed out of all of these different people that they burglarized again he is suspected of killing that other man and raping the other woman but those are not confirmed and he was never actually convicted for those charges so as far as we know amanda is the only person that he harmed while robbing them so why her
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
We don't really know. Then in yet another disturbing coincidence, just a few days before the murder, Davey did a sermon with a fake gun where he shot someone on stage multiple times. This was to illustrate shooting worries away by worshiping. He then posted it on the church's website just a few days after burying Amanda.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So the case that I have for you all today is one that is technically solved but a lot of people think that there is more to this story than what we see at the surface. There is a lot to go over so I'm really looking forward to hearing what everybody's thoughts are on this case after hearing the details but with that being said let's just jump right into it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Now, if this was just a weird coincidence that happened days before that he had this sermon and, you know, it was just a weird coincidence that his wife was murdered just a few days after, I get that. But the fact that he still posted the video of the sermon on the website after his wife was brutally murdered by being shot three times, that is just tone deaf at best and suspicious at worst.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So, some people think that Davey knew about the three men who were known to be involved in gang activity together. Investigators at one point, I believe, admitted that that they thought that Davey may have known more than he was letting on about gang activity in the area because he had always claimed that he thought the area was super safe and that he never saw this coming.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But investigators believe, again, this is just alleged, I'm not... sure if this is absolutely confirmed, but I have seen that investigators believe that he knew a little bit more about the gang activity in the area. Some internet sleuths found three friends on Facebook that D'Anno and Davey actually had in common, so there was some sort of connection there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Of course, he immediately worried about the well-being of their 15-month-old son, Weston, so he ran upstairs to his room, and thankfully, Davey found Weston still in his crib, completely unharmed. Immediately, he called 911 to report that his wife had been harmed. When police arrived to the scene, Amanda was still alive, but barely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
One of these friends was someone who Davey knew through the church, so maybe he did know D'Anno and he reached out to him and his gang to shoot his wife.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
that is sort of the whole like conspiracy here that he somehow had this connection with diano that he knew about the gang activity he knew about these three people who did crimes together and he reached out to them to hire them to kill his wife for whatever reason and that he just downplayed how much he knew about the gay activity to sort of cover that up
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But then, people have to wonder, why would he want his wife murdered? They seem to have a wonderful relationship, nothing seemed to be going wrong, investigators didn't seem to find anything. Why would he want her murdered? So, one thing I haven't brought up yet is the fact that two years after the murder, Davey got remarried.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He said that he made himself wait one year until after Amanda's death to date again, and that is when he met his new wife, Christy. He said that Christy had started attending his church in October of 2016.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He said that months later, the two had a conversation where he found out that her stepdad actually lives near the home that he used to share with Amanda, but also that her stepdad is one of the prison chaplains who regularly spoke with the men that killed Amanda. He said that from there, he knew that God placed Christie in his life for a reason and that is when they began a relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They went on to get married and I believe they now have a daughter together. However, there have been some people who have worked together to sort of put information together to see if there really is anything to Davey wanting to murder his wife. So during one of the posts made to the Resonant Church website, Davey and Amanda talk about the struggles in their relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They talk about certain aspects of their dysfunctional relationship and Davey's sex drive. He said in this video that the two of them fight pretty often and he said things like he makes Amanda have sex with him before dinner so that his sex drive doesn't get in the way of him concentrating on dinner conversations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Others posted to a blog that Amanda confided in other members of her church group that Davey was actually physically abusive towards her. That he humiliated her and was physically and verbally abusive towards her. Then some people found connections between Christy and Davey before Amanda's death. So... I'm not blaming him for getting married two years after the death, even dating a year after it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Everybody has their own amount of time to grieve. But it did turn out that both Christy and Davey went to the same LA Fitness at the same time actually for several years before the murder. So some have speculated that they actually knew each other before. before he claims they met at the church. So the reasons here could be, one, that he got this huge insurance benefit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Two, that he no longer wanted to be with Amanda, but he is a very, very religious person who is also a pastor, and he knew that if he got divorced, it would be very heavily frowned upon by those he preaches to. That could be a career ender for him. Then if he met Christy and fell for her, but obviously couldn't cheat on his wife...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
he might have killed her instead so that he could eventually end up with Christy. So those are the three possible motives here. I don't know how much investigators actually looked into him. I can't honestly say if there was evidence or not to prove any of this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
This is all just speculation that I gathered from different blog posts and postings from those who knew Amanda and Davey and also just other weird things that I was able to find through his own posts, his own words, and things like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They tried their resuscitation efforts and they took her to the hospital. Also, upon arriving to the scene, police noticed that Amanda's credit cards and wallet were on the floor. Her purse was on the kitchen counter, but they also found a Swisher Sweet cigar package on the counter as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Something else that is very, very strange and concerning about Davey is that all throughout this entire thing, he says things like, I wouldn't trade what happened for the world, which to me is really messed up. Like, you wouldn't trade your wife being brutally murdered and possibly raped. There are a lot of people who would have traded a lot for that to have never happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He has tried really, really hard to turn this tragedy into a positive thing that could enact change, but for some people, that has just gone way too far. I think the fact that he acted so very quickly to capitalize off of his wife's death
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
is very concerning the fact that he's always saying that this is a positive thing in his life that it you know makes positive change that she was just someone who God chose to sacrifice her life for the better of others I think all of that is really strange and I think a mourning husband wouldn't say things like that they would be angry I'm not saying that
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They wouldn't try to find reason in all of this. They probably absolutely would. But the fact that he so very quickly after her murder just turned it into something he could make money off of, to me, that is very, very concerning. To me, someone who is guilty, someone who wants to make others more convinced that her death was for something, that it was for the greater good or something like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
someone who's trying to convince everybody else of that, in my opinion, is trying to feel better about themselves. And that's just me. But I think that if like, if I did something horrible like that, and I really wanted other people to think like, it was these men, I forgive them. They did a horrible thing, but Amanda's death brought better things to the world. It brought better change.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I would want people to believe that because then if I really did come out to be me, maybe people wouldn't be so harsh on me. That's just what I think. So that is all the information that I have, but there is a lot more out there. I did try my best to only include information that I at least found relatively credible, but again, a lot of it is just speculation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I try to be empathetic towards how people react in a traumatic situation. So when someone says, oh, they didn't cry enough, they didn't seem like sad enough, they were stoic, they, you know, were hysterical, they weren't hysterical enough. I try not to judge people based off of those behaviors because everybody, everybody reacts differently to trauma, no matter who you are, everybody's different.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So I try not to put too much weight into that when I'm sort of deciding if I think someone could be involved. I personally think that with this case, it is possible that Davey had some sort of involvement. I do think that there are a lot of strange things about that morning, parts of the story that just don't make sense, and parts of his behavior that are really concerning.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
David said that this was not something that should have been in the house because neither of them smoked and especially not cigars. They also noticed that a decorative lamp had also been knocked over in the living room right next to where Amanda was found. Again, like I said, Amanda was still alive when she was found. She was 12 weeks pregnant at this time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But I do also think it's possible that Davey is a narcissist. Now that may be harsh and I don't throw around that word. I know a lot of people will throw around the word narcissist. I personally do not. But I think it is fitting for this situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
No matter how good of a person you are or how strong your faith is, the way he acted in the days and even the hours after his wife is murdered is a little bit appalling. Even if he didn't have any involvement, I think that this happened and he immediately saw it as something that happened to him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
him something that people could look at him and feel sorry for him for something that he could use for his teachings I think that in his head it switched from something that was traumatic that he was going through that happened to the love of his life to something that he could benefit from really quick disturbingly quick
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
The fact that he branded his wife's grave with his new business is honestly kind of sickening to me. It shows a lot of those aspects of just being a narcissist and trying to make things and turn it into your own story. I know that there isn't a lot of evidence. There's pretty much no concrete evidence to say that he was involved in any way.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He absolutely could just be the victim of losing his spouse to a horrible, horrible tragedy. But his behaviors will never not give me the ick and I think that there is a reasonable suspicion here.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
The one thing that really stands out to me though about this entire thing, whether Davey is involved, whether I think he's involved, is the fact that three men went to jail for this and I don't think any of them had ever brought up knowing Davey.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
A huge part in this whole, you know, Davey contacting Deanna and getting three of them to kill Amanda thing was because the three of them were basically best friends. They saw each other as family. So they did this together. I feel like they would have turned on Davey much quicker than Deanna and Jalen would have turned on Larry if they truly were hired to kill Amanda.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
unless they weren't all in on it, but I still have a feeling like someone would have said something. If I was hired to kill someone and I got caught and I saw the person who hired me living his best life, making a bunch of money, getting remarried, all of that, I'd say something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
but that might just be just me but you know maybe someday these men will say something too if they truly were hired for this but to me i just feel like at some point they would have had their own best interest in mind so if they really were hired for this i feel like they would have said anything to get a shorter sentence and they would have put the blame on davey very quickly
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I don't think three men would have gone to jail pretty much almost for life. Even the two that were just convicted of burglary, they most likely won't get out of jail until their 50s. So personally, I wouldn't go to jail for that long without spilling the tea on who else was involved. I wouldn't go to jail for somebody else even if I was a terrible person who murdered people.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I wouldn't go to jail for someone else. I would let it know immediately that I got caught but this person is also involved. I would want them to go down with me. So the fact that they've never mentioned knowing Davey or him being a part of any of this, that's a pretty big factor for the side of like Davey was not involved. But that's just me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Either way, that is all of the information that I have for today's video. Davey is still very active on his blog. He has a lot of posts about the situation and his life since. So if you're interested in reading those, his website will be linked down below. I read a couple of them. They're very long and some of them, again, are just a little bit tone deaf in my opinion.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
And even though there was never an official test done, Davey said that they were so sure that the baby would have been a girl. They said that they were going to name her Everett or Evie for short. Either way, Amanda was rushed to the hospital and placed on life support to hopefully save the life of Amanda and her unborn baby.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But either way, there are a lot of other Facebook groups for discussing this case at greater lengths, a lot of blog posts about different things that are suspicious, about people sort of breaking down Davey's statements and looking for basically problems or things to be suspicious about and things that he's said. So again, those will be listed down below if you want to read them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
but i'm really looking forward to hearing what all of your guys's thoughts are on this case do you think that davey was involved if so why or do you think this truly was just a random act of violence and amanda was unfortunately the victim of it let me know this and any other thoughts and theories you have in the comments below if you liked this video please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel i put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Don't forget to go ahead and turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you go ahead and follow me on Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure to go ahead and fill out the Google form that I have listed down below as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
However, that next day on November 11th, she was taken off life support and she died and so did her unborn child. When Davey initially called 911, he reported that she had a head wound because he actually thought that she had been struck in the head with something. However, upon autopsy examination, it was found that Amanda had been shot three times.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
One time to her lower left arm, once in her upper back, and then one shot to the back of her head. Her manner of death was ruled a homicide and her cause of death was determined to be the result of a gunshot wound to the back of her head. Her autopsy also found that she had scratches to her left cheek, her lip had been split, and one of her lower teeth had been knocked out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
After finding Amanda's body, of course, the police went ahead and searched the home for evidence. They took DNA swabs of the blood that was found around Amanda's body and other areas from Amanda's body, including under her fingernails and then also areas around the house. They found change lying on the floor.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They found a roll of duct tape and earphones lying on the floor in the living room near where Amanda was found. They also found a bullet at the scene, including one bullet hole at the base of the stairs and then a lead bullet under the stairs. They also found two bullets in Amanda, one in her upper arm, so in her bicep area, and then one in her head when they completed the autopsy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They found that the caliber was either a 38 or a 9 millimeter and they found no shell casings at the scene, which could be indicative of a revolver being used. Then police found Amanda's cell phone in her bedroom and they noticed that she had gotten an email at 7.53 a.m. from Chase Bank to alert her that her Chase debit card had alerted them to suspicious activity.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
someone had used her card to withdraw money from an ATM. When investigators looked through her credit and debit cards in her wallet, they found that the Chase card was missing, indicating that it had been stolen. This raised a red flag for investigators because, as it turned out that morning, two other people in the same area that Amanda and Davey had lived in
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Today we are going to be discussing the tragic murder of Amanda Blackburn. Amanda Blackburn was born on July 31st, 1987 in Muskegon, Michigan. She started schooling in Indianapolis, Indiana before she moved to Akur, Indiana in 1995 with her family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
called 911 to report burglaries that same morning. So, by 5.23 a.m. on November 10th, a neighbor called 911 to report a burglary at her apartment. In this report, the neighbor stated that she woke up at 4.30 a.m. to realize that her cell phone was missing from her bedroom.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
When she got up, she saw that the sliding glass door to her apartment was open and all of the plants in her apartment were knocked over. She noticed that her Apple MacBook laptop was missing and so were her purse and her keys. Then she noticed that her car was missing from the apartment parking lot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
When police responded to the call, they looked at the surveillance camera from the apartment's interior of the building, which took still shots of someone entering the residence. They saw shots of three people entering the apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Two of them were definitely seen entering while they think the third one may have stood outside of the door of the apartment or he may have entered but they just didn't see it on the still shot. They also found that the robbers made entry into the apartment by cutting the screen on the porch and then opening the sliding glass door.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then, the robbers disabled the camera during the actual robbery itself. Then, by 8.17am on November 10th, another neighbor, now one who lived on the same street as Amanda and Davey, they called 911 to also report a burglary. This neighbor also had security camera footage, but the camera had been disabled at 5.36am.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
This robber also made entry by cutting the screen on the porch and then somehow unlocking the deadbolt on the sliding glass door. And for this robbery, these robbers went ham. They took four televisions, a MacBook Pro, a Tiffany Pearl necklace, a pink woman's sweatshirt, a universal AT&T remote controller, a bag of oranges, and bedsheets. Don't know why they took all of those things.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
But investigators also noted that it appeared that the robbers drank beer and wine in the house and left those empty bottles in the home. Then they exited the house through the front door. Now, I believe the woman in this situation was not home at the time of the robbery because it was said that when she returned home, she noticed that the front door was unlocked.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
So I think that's why they were able to sort of spend so much time in the apartment and chill and drink beer and steal all of those things. This is a little bit off topic, but it always just gets me when robbers will just stay in one place for a long time to chill.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
She went on to graduate from Alkurt Christian Academy in 2006, then went on to Pensacola Christian College in Pensacola, Florida, graduating with her associate's degree in 2008. Then Amanda went on to meet a man named Davey Blackburn. She actually met him on a blind date that was set up by a mutual friend where they went to go see a Christian band called Hawk Nelson.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
When I was in high school, right after I'd gotten my own car, my house got broken into and my mom always left her purse on the kitchen table with her car keys in it. So they came in and took her car keys and stole her car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
At the time, I had my car, a 1999 Nissan Altima, and I had always had my keys in my room, so my car luckily was not stolen, but I was not the most responsible, so sometimes I left my car door unlocked with my wallet inside.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I actually had two wallets, so again, I was in high school at the time, so this wallet just had all of like my gift cards and things like that, half of which were empty or had like two bucks left on them, and then my real debit card and my ID and my cash were all kept in a different wallet in my purse, which I always had with me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
I guess all the gift cards and stuff that I collected over time just didn't fit in my wallet, so I had it in a different wallet in the car. I don't know. Anyways, after my mom discovered that her car was stolen, I went in my car and found that the front driver's seat had been reclined all the way back, so someone was laying in the driver's seat of my car,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
and then my wallet had clearly been opened and rifled through but again all my gift cards were pretty much empty so anything that they took they really didn't get much off of me but the thing that got me was that i found orange cracker crumbs all over my seat
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
so i always kept those orange peanut butter crackers in my car because i always wanted a snack i still do them the same way i always could use a snack but those were gone and the wrapper was still there and there were crumbs everywhere so the same dude who stole my mom's car also went in my car laid down went through my wallet and then ate my crackers while chilling in the car
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then they proceeded to take my mom's car. It's just a crazy story and it always just gets me when thieves and robbers just like, I'm gonna rob this place, but I'm also gonna chill. I'm gonna take my time, I'm gonna eat some snacks, I'm gonna drink some beer, drink some wine, and then I'll leave. It's just the audacity. But anyways, let's get back to the case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
After these 911 calls were made, the next emergency call was to report that Amanda had been seriously injured and was laying on the living room floor. So police went around the neighborhood to ask the different residents if they had seen any suspicious behavior that day, and they did find a few who had. So one neighbor reported that just before 7 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
that morning, they saw a male dressed in all black with a hoodie over his head walking in front of her house.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
another witness described saying the same thing seeing him walking down the street talking loudly on the phone but this witness said that he had a t-shirt pulled up over his face then by 7 10 a.m another witness saw a late model chrysler sebring drive up and stop next to the man the man then got into the car in the front passenger seat before the car backed into a driveway and drove away
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
This car and the man getting in were captured on this neighbor's surveillance camera. Then another witness came forward to the police to tell them that she was laying in bed that morning and sometime between 6.40 and 6.45 a.m. she heard what sounded like two shots and then a woman screaming.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then the police did go to the local LA Fitness to confirm whether or not Davey was there when he said he was and they did confirm that his alibi checked out. By November 11th, police were alerted to reports of finding the stolen Chrysler Sebring. I actually don't remember if I mentioned it earlier, but the first neighbor who woke up and saw that her car was missing, it was this car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
It was the Chrysler Sebring. I believe that it was located on the side of the road nearby where the car was stolen from, about pretty close to where Amanda's home was. Police took the car and with the owner's permission, they went ahead and searched it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
And by August 1st, 2008, the couple got married. Before getting married, the two of them had been dating long distance for a few years, and they were really only able to spend time together for bouts of about three weeks at a time. They went to different colleges at the time, so they really only got to see one another on school breaks.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They found that there was an ATM receipt on the front passenger side floor, which showed a denied attempt at taking out a $500 transaction at 6.36am on November 10th. The last four digits of the card used on the ATM receipt matched Amanda's stolen debit card. So it seemed that Amanda was harmed almost immediately after Davey left for the gym that morning because again,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They had already broken in and taken her debit cards and went to the ATM about a half hour after he left. So they must have broken in pretty soon after he left. Either way, in the car, they also found a pink woman's sweater on the floor on the driver's side, which was confirmed to belong to the woman who reported a pink sweater being missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
They found that universal AT&T remote in the trunk of the car as well. And then they found a green men's XXL sweatshirt, a bed sheet, and a bag of oranges in the trunk as well. DNA swabs were taken from the sweater as well as from various areas inside of the car.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
Then using the information of the location of the ATM that Amanda's debit card was used at, police went to that ATM and got video surveillance from it. On the video, they saw someone who appeared to be driving a silver Chrysler Sebring. They saw the person go up to the ATM with a pink shirt wrapped around his face and then wearing a white hoodie on his head.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED? The Tragic Murder of Amanda Blackburn // WAS IT REALLY HER HUSBAND?!
He was also wearing a dark colored vest. The footage showed the failed attempt at taking out $500 again at 6.36 a.m., But then another ATM located nearby shows the same person successfully taking out $400 from the account at 6.54 a.m. Now, like I said, police had taken DNA from the pink sweater that the woman reported missing that morning.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Hey guys, my name is Rachel and welcome back to my channel. So today's video was suggested to me by one of my Patreons, Michael. Thank you Michael for bringing this case to my attention. This is yet another one of those very tragic cases that so many people seem to have so many differing opinions on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
The same day, police are out on the streets of College Avenue and 11th Street stopping cars to see if anyone passing by had any information. The following days produced several more searches with thousands of volunteers, more media appearances, and more investigation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
By June 15th, police released an image of a white van caught by Lauren's apartment security cameras that was seen driving in the area the night that she went missing around the time that she was last seen. Again, tips absolutely poured in, but nothing actually came of it. And eventually, police said that they found the truck and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
know searched it for evidence but found nothing related to the case turns out it was just some guy that was driving to work around the same area around the same time on june 19th police searched the woods southwest of martinville after two witnesses reported smelling a foul odor but once again nothing came of the search by late june daily searches and police briefings started to fizzle out.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
By this point, police had already interviewed the men that Lauren was with the night that she went missing, they heard from the families, they conducted polygraph tests, followed numerous leads, conducted a thorough timeline, and had multiple persons of interest, but... Lauren was not found.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now as police were doing their searches, putting together different timelines, conducting their investigations, they came up with a bunch of different theories surrounding the friends that she was with that night and her boyfriend. So now I'm going to go over the information and speculation surrounding them. Many believe that these friends know a lot more than what they are saying.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
They also refused to take polygraph tests administered by the Bloomington police, which does make them look pretty bad, but these men's representatives said that they really just don't trust the Bloomington police and they were fully willing to participate in FBI-administered polygraph tests and they have spoken to them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
And like I said, I know at least David took the FBI-administered polygraph tests. I think the other men had too, but I didn't really see that anywhere. This is when the huge argument came out about whether Lauren had regularly used drugs or not. Lauren's family believed that due to the level of intoxication that she was at, her friends must have slipped something into her drink that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, her boyfriend and her friends all claimed that she regularly used drugs and that the night that she went missing was no different. Jessie's parents even went as far as saying as when she was at camp to Wanda, she was asked to leave because of how heavily she was using.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, I don't want to take anyone's side or speak on anything that I don't know about or anything like that, but I do just want to say that if Lauren was doing drugs, her parents probably didn't know about it and would be under the impression that she has never done anything like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She attended IU and was studying textiles and merchandising and she was very active in the Jewish community at her school. She even spent her spring break over in Israel just planting trees, which is pretty cool.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Again, I don't want to speak about anything I don't know about and I'm not saying that she was a terrible person who was hiding all of this information and all of this partying and the secret life from her parents, but a lot of college students or young people in general will find themselves involved in too much partying maybe or
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
you know taking drugs or doing things that their parents wouldn't be happy with so they just don't tell their parents so they put up this you know persona that they're just in college they don't really go to parties and they just kind of hang out and they don't really do anything bad so again i don't really know anything about lauren's family dynamics or anything like that and they very well possibly could have been the type of family that told each other everything
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
and maybe she had told her parents about everything that she did and that didn't include using very many drugs, but again, it's possible that she did. She did have this partying and substance-using side to her that her parents just didn't know about. On the other hand, I will concede that Lauren's friends also could have been saying this as a cop-out if something really did happen to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
They could have just been making this up and saying, okay, yeah, she really did use all these drugs because, you know, something happened to her that night, we did something to her, and we just don't want to take responsibility for it. That's always possible. But as we go more through this video, we will kind of see both sides of it and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
can come to a conclusion for yourself now when jesse was being questioned by police he claimed that lauren had actually been using coke the night that she went missing in addition to the alcohol that she was drinking like i mentioned earlier lauren had a pretty severe heart condition that can be exacerbated by substance use so the combination of these drugs
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
could have been a very deadly mixture for Lauren that night. Many people believe that this is what caused her death and that one of the men that she was with that night was with her when this happened, so maybe he got rid of her body to avoid being charged with anything or get in trouble with anything.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, like I mentioned earlier, police did gain search warrants to search Lauren's apartment after she went missing. And during one of these searches, police actually did find a small bag with coconut in her room. It was also reported that Lauren was arrested nine months prior to her disappearance in September of 2010 for public intoxication and consumption of illegal substances.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Right after Lauren's disappearance, Lauren's mother received a letter from a mother of a young girl who went to school with Lauren who said that her daughter had always been jealous of Lauren because she was more popular than her until college when they both attended Indiana University.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So it is very possible that the night she disappeared, she very well could have been using. Now, like I said, a lot of attention and speculation has been placed on Jesse and the men that Lauren was with the night that she went missing, particularly Jay Rosenbaum, Corey Rossman, and Mike Beth. Now, it was reported that Jesse and Lauren had actually spoken early in the afternoon on June 2nd.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She had apparently told Jesse that she wasn't going out that night and that she just planned on staying home. Like I mentioned earlier, Jesse had also decided to stay in that night and was just watching basketball all night until he went to bed at 2.30 a.m. and this was corroborated by his roommate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I also want to mention that Jesse was very active in the searches for Lauren before his parents came to Indiana to pick him up and bring him back to Port Washington, New York, which is where he was from. Corey Rossman also claimed to have no idea what happened to Lauren that night, saying that he was not the last person to have seen her and cannot say where she went that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Some have looked at Corey as being uncooperative with police during the investigation, but he denies this, saying simply that he just can't remember what happened that night due to losing his memory after being punched in the face. Now, Lauren's parents then filed a civil suit against Corey, Mike, and Jay for negligence,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
saying that they gave Lauren alcohol after she was already very clearly intoxicated and that they did not do what they should have done to ensure that she got home safely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, this case was dismissed against all three men in the years following, saying unfortunately that it's unclear what happened to Lauren and there isn't necessarily enough evidence to suggest that what happened to her was directly a result of negligence on their end. So of course, no charges have been filed against any of these men.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
In the years following, Lauren's parents claim that police have not been cooperative with them and haven't been providing them with any of the information that they find. They believe that police have more photos and surveillance videos that show Lauren that they will not release.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
despite admitting themselves that this is one of those cases that is really important when it comes to spreading information and that photos and videos are crucial to the investigation. However, police say that they're being very informative and upfront with the family despite what the family is claiming.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She said that when her daughter was struggling, Lauren always went out of her way to help her and this is when that girl realized just how selfless and caring Lauren is. She knew that Lauren had a big heart and would do pretty much anything for anyone. She had these big dreams and was just such an amazing and caring and kind young woman.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So at this point in the investigation, the biggest theory is that Lauren may have been involved with drugs that night. She possibly died of an overdose or as a result of her heart condition and that the friends that she was with were scared and didn't want to be responsible for her death.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, four years after Lauren's disappearance, on April 24th, 2015, the body of another young woman was found in very, very terrible condition. This woman was Hannah Wilson. This caused the investigation to take a whole new turn and made investigators believe that they could have been connected. Now, I'm going to pause and get into Hannah's story.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She is a victim and even though this video isn't directly about her, Her story deserves to be told. Hannah Wilson was originally from Fisher, Indiana. After graduating high school, she went on to attend Indiana University to study psychology and was a part of the Gamma Phi Beta sorority at school. She was a senior at the time of her death and was just looking forward to graduation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She even had a job lined up for her before continuing her education at grad school. In the days before her last college exam, she actually went home to visit her sick cat. When leaving her home to go back to school, she kissed her mother goodbye, who told her to be safe as she drove home and she went on her way. Hannah went on and completely aced her exam and just wanted to go out and celebrate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She and her sorority sisters hung out and partied at their house before Hannah went off on her own to meet with some old friends who had already graduated at the Hilton Garden Inn Hotel in Bloomington before going out and heading out to Kilroy's Sports Bar. However, by the time Hannah got to sports, her friends got concerned that she had already been drinking too much and she needed to go home.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
of course she wanted to stay but eventually agreed to just go home and call it a night her friends put hannah in a cab and paid him to drop her off at her home the taxi dropped her off at the intersection right by her house and he watched her walk off this was the very last time that hannah was seen alive at around 1am hannah's roommate actually heard the house's door open but never heard it close
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
It was also found that her phone had connected to the house's wi-fi only a few minutes later. So she did end up making it to the house, but it's unknown why she decided to leave and it's also unknown what actually happened to Hannah in the hours following. That morning, Hannah's roommate woke up to find that the house's door was wide open and found Hannah's purse and cell phone laying on her bed
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
but couldn't find Hannah anywhere. Immediately, her roommate reported her missing. And immediately, Bloomington police contacted Hannah's mother who started heading over right away. But unfortunately, just hours later in that same morning at around 8.34 a.m. on April 24th, an unidentified body was found in a grassy area about 18 miles outside of Bloomington.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, before we get into the night of Lauren's disappearance, I want to point out that Lauren actually did have a heart condition called Long QT Syndrome. which is a disorder of the heart's electrical activity that causes sudden arrhythmias where the heart beats very fast and erratically, which can cause fainting, seizures, or even sudden death if the heart is unable to return to a normal rhythm.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
She had been found to have died from blunt force trauma to the head and was found with no purse and no ID, but at her feet was a cell phone with a bright red case. At first, they thought that this cell phone could help identify who this woman was, but after further investigation, this phone was found to not even belong to this woman.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
This was incredibly strange, but police kind of suspected that this woman was probably Hannah. After Hannah's mother arrived to the police station, Police showed her images of Hannah, and sure enough, she positively identified her as being Hannah. But thankfully, because of this phone that was left at this scene, Hannah would receive justice almost right away.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Police were able to connect this phone to 50-year-old Daniel Messel, a single Bloomington man who was the employee of a print shop. Turns out, Daniel had an extensive history of violence against women, including jail time for hitting his grandmother over the head with a 2x4. A real stand-up guy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
When police arrived at Daniel's home, they found his gray Kia Sportage completely packed with bags, and police actually caught Daniel walking out of his home with another clear garbage bag that was full of bloody clothes. and his car was just chock full of evidence pointing directly against him in relation to Hannah.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
About a year later, Daniel Messel went to court, and he maintained his innocence the entire time. His defense stated that he did cross paths with Hannah that night, but said that police failed to look into any other suspects because all they happened to find was bloody clothes and a car full of evidence. But, you know. tunnel vision.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
During the trial, they were trying to figure out just how Messel's and Hannah's paths could have crossed. Hannah's friend said that she didn't know Daniel Messel, didn't know where she would have gone after getting home that night, and has no idea how their paths could have possibly crossed that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, video surveillance was presented that shows Daniel out with his friends at a bar that night and shows him leaving at around 12 a.m. Around the same time that Hannah was known to have gone home, a cab was seen on surveillance driving down the street and was about to drop her off. But just as the cab was seen driving down the street, Daniel Nessel's car was seen following right behind.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Investigators believed that he could have spotted Hannah at the bar, you know, looking vulnerable and decided to follow her cab. They believe that when she got home, she went inside and maybe realized that she had lost her ID or dropped it or something on the ground. They believe that maybe she went back outside to look for it and this is when Daniel Messel actually came up to her
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
you know, possibly offered to help maybe drive her back to the bar or whatever it might be and this is when he took her. Blood evidence in the car shows that he may have knocked her out in the car and then tried to drive around Bloomingdale into a remote cavernous area but As he was driving, he realized that the bridge that he needed to cross to get to this area was closed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
This is when it's believed that Hannah actually woke up, tried to fight her captor back and escape. This is when investigators believe that he may have just randomly pulled over wherever he was as she was trying to fight back dragged her out of her car, and killed her where her body was found only a few hours later.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Because of the intense altercation and with him probably just trying to get out as fast as possible without anyone seeing him, he dropped his phone where it was found later, which would be the key to finding out exactly who was responsible. This trial ended in a guilty verdict for first-degree murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now why a lot of people think that this relates to Lauren's case is that as the trial was going on, other women around campus started coming out and saying that they had been stalked and harassed by a man who they believe to have been Daniel Messel. One woman actually came out with sexual assault allegations against Messel and after conducting DNA testing, he was found guilty of that crime.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
It can be triggered by exercise, stress, or the use of drugs and alcohol. Clearly, this is a very scary heart condition and the night Lauren went missing, she was under the influence. I also want to mention that there is a debate between Lauren's family and friends
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So this leads many people to speculate. could he be connected to numerous other missing persons or violent crimes? and again this is where the theory comes together that lauren spears and Hannah Wilson's cases are actually connected. Both were absolutely beautiful young Indianiversity students who had been pretty heavily intoxicated the night that they went missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Both were in the same eight block radius the night that they were out. Additionally, an old cellmate of Messel's, David Hayden, actually sent a letter stating that he actually took part in helping Messel move Lauren's body. He gave a description of Lauren's outfit from that night and how exactly he partook in doing so. But, of course, Messel denied knowing David Hayden or Lauren at all.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Those investigating Lauren's case have named Messel as a person of interest, but have not come forward on whether they actually think he's involved or not. There's no actual evidence linking Messel to Lauren's case. and obviously there's no body to go off of. So at this point, that's pretty much all of the information in this case, so now I'm going to get into the theories in this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
And it's one of those cases where a beautiful young woman was taken from us way too soon, yet there are people out there who want to blame her for what happened to her. So if you are someone who is going to be in the comments and talk negatively about the victim and just sit there and blame her for doing something that pretty much everyone else has done, including you, the person that is going to
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So of course, the probably biggest theory is the theory that one of Lauren's friends was responsible for her disappearance or that one of them possibly covered up an accident that could have happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Within this theory, there's a number of possibilities of who exactly was involved and how, so I'm going to do my best to kind of be thorough and run through each person and how they could have been involved in each scenario. So, we know about Lauren's health condition and how drugs and alcohol may have a very negative and deadly impact on it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
While we don't know exactly what she consumed that night, I think it's pretty clear that Lauren was intoxicated by at least something and probably could have had heart issues or, you know, it's always possible that she could have died in a different way. Maybe she fell and hit her head at some point or maybe she overdosed on whatever she was taking. Maybe one of her friends hurt her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So the first of these friends that I want to talk about is Corey. Now, Cory's the one who Lauren spent most of her night with. There were several instances where they were alone together. He's the one that was with her most of the night and we know that he wasn't being the most careful with her as he knew that she was extremely intoxicated.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
on whether she regularly used substances and obviously I can't speak for whether she did or not but either way she was a college student who probably did party a lot just like so many other college students just like myself just like a lot of people watching this video do or used to do so a lot of people want to blame her for you know using you know whatever she was using and for going out for her disappearance but
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
We know that he got into a fight, maybe even because he was being too aggressive towards Lauren. So it's possible that when the two were together that she either passed away from a heart condition or maybe something happened to her when he was maybe making a move on her and he was rejected. We don't know if he had any sort of feelings towards Lauren
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
We don't know if, you know, there was any sort of relationship between them. As far as I know, it was totally platonic, but he totally could have had feelings for her that she didn't reciprocate and that made him upset enough to harm her. But in my personal opinion, I don't think that this is very likely at all. First of all,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Corey was also very heavily intoxicated and according to his roommate Mike, he was stumbling everywhere and needed help even just getting into his own bed. So it's not very likely that he could have done something to Lauren and hid her very well if he was this intoxicated. Also, we have to imagine if Corey was involved, then Mike and probably Jay would have been involved as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
It's possible that when Mike called Jay that it was because of something a lot more serious than Lauren just needing to come over and needing someone to take care of her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, it's been quite a number of years since all of this happened, and if all three men were involved in either covering up an accident or covering up Corey hurting her, then I really think that something would have been said by now. They were all just drunk college kids.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I don't personally think that they would be able to cover up all of this and then hide her so well that she's never found again and then be able to work together to cover all of this up and never give each other up through all these years despite all of the accusations and media attention and people looking at them. If people were looking directly at Corey,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
and he knew that his friends were helping him cover this up or if people were looking directly at either of the other two men I guarantee that at some point one of them would have cracked and you know gave away the other one I don't think that they were so close because
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I mean, when it comes to going to jail for someone or when it comes to being scrutinized in the media over someone, I don't think there's pretty much anyone who's close enough with their friends who would just take that and ruin their life to cover up what their other friend did. I don't know. It's always possible, but I just don't think that it's very likely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
The next theory within this theory is that Jay was responsible for, again, either covering up an accident or doing something to her. He admittedly was the very last person to see Lauren alive as she was walking away. There are also questions on why he chose not to walk her home and just let her walk home alone at night knowing
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
that she had no shoes possibly knowing that she didn't have her wallet no keys and was very very very heavily intoxicated is it possible that he made all of this up to cover for himself i feel like if he was the one responsible then he must have done it alone because you know using the same logic from before i just don't think that if they all knew that jay
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
their friend who, I don't know again how close they are, but did something horrible to their other friend that they would just all equally take the fall for it and no one would say anything. Or another possibility comes from the fact that we know that Jay was having people over that night and there still could have been people that were over at Jay's house when Lauren got there that night.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Is it possible that any of the friends who we don't even, you know, know their names of have done something or maybe they helped Jay cover everything up? Again, I don't know how possible this all is. We don't even know for sure 100% fact if Jace still had people over at his house by that point, but we don't know. I also want to mention that in terms of him just being irresponsible and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
letting Lauren walk home alone, I imagine that he and all of the other guys were probably very heavily intoxicated themselves. Maybe they were just really trying to get Lauren to just stay there because, you know, that would be the easiest way to watch her and make sure that she was being safe and Lauren just didn't want to listen to them. Maybe she just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Again, I want to remind everyone that you probably went out just as much as Lauren or any other college student in some point in your life and it is incredibly unfair to just assume that because she was intoxicated that she's somehow responsible for what happened to her. So now we are going to get into the timeline of the night that Lauren went missing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
didn't want to stay at any other houses, she just wanted to go back to her own place where she was comfortable and maybe the guys just got really frustrated with her and just let her leave. They were also probably so intoxicated themselves that they just didn't realize and didn't think about the fact that she could potentially be putting herself into danger by leaving. I will say that if
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
You know, the timeline is exactly how it's presented to us and these men are being 100% honest. I think that knowing that they let her walk home alone and then she came up to be missing, they probably feel so guilty about letting her just walk off and are probably replaying that moment in their head every single day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
They let their friend just go off on her own, never to be seen again, and I can't even imagine how guilty they must be feeling if, again, everything is exactly how they said it was and they just let their friend walk off into possible danger. They probably feel really bad about it. and for the fact that people are pointing the fingers directly at them, that probably doesn't help.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
But again, for this theory, I do think that it's possible that they could have had something to do with it, but I just don't think that of everything we know, that this is the most likely scenario. So one of the more popular theories, and one that in my opinion makes a lot more sense than the friends having something to do with it, is that Jesse, Lauren's boyfriend, could have been involved.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
First of all, we know that Lauren told Jesse that she wasn't really going to be going out that night but ended up going out anyways. We know that Jesse just stayed in that night and went to bed around 2 30, which is corroborated by his roommate. We also know that Lauren was out spending a lot of time with a bunch of other guys being under the influence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, we don't know a lot about the relationship in general or how he felt about those guys or, you know, how the two were doing in that night in specific. Maybe last second she did let Jesse know the plans for the night and he was totally cool with it. Maybe he knew the guys and trusted them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I know I hang out with a lot of guys from my class and they're totally cool guys and my boyfriend knows that they're totally cool guys and he doesn't mind when I go out and hang out with them. He knows these guys and he trusts them and they're really quality people So it's not a problem that I would go and hang out with them without my boyfriend being present.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So it could have been the same situation. Or if we look at it from the other side and think maybe he wasn't cool with it. Maybe he was super jealous or upset that she lied about her plans, didn't update him, and was just hanging out with a bunch of other dudes. I could see why he could be jealous if she said, oh, I'm not going to go hang out this night and then ended up hanging out with guys.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
It kind of makes it seem like, you know, maybe she wasn't letting him know on purpose or something like that. I could see how that could be running through a jealous boyfriend's head. Maybe he was jealous and did something to her out of rage and anger. He could have just told his roommate he was going to bed at 2.30 to
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
create an alibi for himself and then snuck out of the house and went and confronted Lauren. It's not unheard of that situations like this can happen. And unfortunately it happens all the time. Maybe he was waiting for her near her apartment after she left Jay's and that's when he took the opportunity to hurt her and just hit her extremely well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, the timeline has been compiled from a combination of witness statements and from surveillance around the area now the night of june 3rd 2011 lauren decided to go out with some of her friends in downtown bloomington wearing a white tank top a white shirt and black pants with her was her friend david ron another student at iu who was from manhattan new york
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Out of every individual that we have gone over, I think Jesse is the one with the most motive to have harmed her and probably the one with the most opportunity to have harmed her. Plus, doing my research, it seems like Jesse's parents are completely taking
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
his side and kind of almost disrespecting lauren as a person after she went missing as we saw earlier jesse's mother has no problem going out and talking about how much of a problem child and how much of a drug problem lauren had how she was a wild young girl how it's unfortunate that she just succumbed to this heart condition his mother did say that in front of the media basically saying
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
it's unfortunate that she succumbed to her heart condition, basically stating it as fact.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
That does strike me as very odd and it could indicate that they just didn't like Lauren so they don't really care what their son did to her, but at the same time, if you have all these people accusing your son of something he genuinely didn't do, then I could just see how his mother would automatically go straight into defense mode.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So again, just like with the other theories, I do think that it could be possible he does have the most motive in my opinion from what we know, but I just don't know how logistically possible it could have been. When it comes to the theory of something accidentally happening to Lauren in terms of her heart condition or maybe her falling and hitting her head or something like that,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
and her friends just scrambling to cover it up and hide her body. I just don't know if I believe that. First of all, it's their friend. It's not just some random person who was in their house who maybe wasn't supposed to be there and they had no idea that they had a heart condition and that they just didn't really care about this person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
i mean we can't say for sure if her friends knew about her heart condition or how close they were or if they were good quality people or if they cared about her but we can assume that you know her friends probably did know about her heart condition and if they were friends i mean you care about your friends so they probably did care about her if she just
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
passed out and didn't seem okay, why wouldn't they have just called an ambulance?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I get that they wouldn't want to get in trouble if they had drugs on them, but it would have been a hell of a lot easier to hide their drugs or take her body to one of their apartments that wasn't having a party at it or have just taken her out into the hallway for paramedics to pick her up than hiding an entire body.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I don't see why they would go through all of this trouble just to hide an entire body. and risk their entire lives by you know trying to cover it up than to just try and hide the drugs and accept the much less severe consequences if those were found if they did get caught with the drugs after
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
you know, the paramedics took Lauren, they probably would have spent a very minuscule amount of time in jail or have just gotten a fine. I don't see why they would risk their entire lives over something as minuscule as, you know, finding some drugs in their apartment. Again, it's much much easier to hide some drugs than to hide an entire body no matter how small and petite she was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
And as for hurting her, I don't know if that's very likely either because if one of them hurt her, I feel like someone would have said something again. This is their friend and no matter how close I am to my friends, if I found out that a mutual friend of mine killed another mutual friend or did something that resulted in her dying or did something that even harmed her in any way,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
The two went to five NorthTown townhomes, which is just a few blocks away from their apartment building in Smallwood Plaza. So Lauren and her friend both lived at Smallwood Plaza, and they obviously lived in different apartments, so I do just want to make sure I say that. So anyways, they headed over to Jay Rosenbaum's apartment and met Corey Rossman, who was Jay's neighbor.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
i would not hesitate to let someone know i don't care if it was my best friend and they hurt you know a third friend it doesn't matter i would let someone know i just don't think that this much time would have passed without anyone saying anything if one of these friends is responsible
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So the next main theory is that a stranger did this to Lauren and of course there are multiple theories within this theory as well. So of course it's possible that someone completely unknown saw Lauren walking home, saw and knew that she was very inebriated and took advantage of her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
We know that there is a witness who saw someone with her description being picked up and thrown over someone's shoulder and even if they mixed up their time, there is another witness who heard a scream around the same time frame that we know she was last seen. It's very possible that the scream that this witness heard was the sound of Lauren being taken.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Of course, the other theory within this theory is that Daniel Massell is responsible. We know that he had a history of stalking around Indiana University and harassing women. We know that he is very capable of killing another woman because we know that he did and was probably only caught because he hit an unexpected roadblock on the way and Hannah woke up and fought him back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
We also know that despite the mountains of evidence against him, just short of him being caught in the act itself, he won't admit that he did this to Hannah. So just because he's in jail for one murder doesn't suddenly mean that he's going to admit to every other crime that he's
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
done either of these theories of a stranger being responsible or daniel messel being responsible i think these are more likely than the friends being involved unfortunately i don't think that lauren is alive any longer and i think that whoever did this tour had experience of this type of thing and has done it a lot and has gotten away with it a lot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I don't necessarily know if I think that it was messal and there is a lot pointing in that direction, but it could have very well been just another super creepy man that went around the university stalking young women. So this is where I want to take a minute and talk about just how unsafe college campuses can be and how we need to do a much better job of taking care of each other.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I say this in every single video that I post about this type of case, but it's true. There are absolutely no circumstances in which we should be letting women, or men for that matter, walk alone at night, especially if they're intoxicated. We can do better.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
The obvious answer here is to demand that college campuses make their, you know, campuses a lot more safe, but clearly so many universities, including the one that I graduated from, have decades-long history of women and men going missing off of their campuses or turning out murdered and no one says anything and no one does anything to get it changed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So we need to take that step in keeping each other safe. Never let your friend go home alone in hell. If you see anyone else,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
even if it's a random person call them an uber or a lyft or do something don't just stand idly by and watch people as they stumble home alone or you know even sleep on the sidewalk alone like that's so dangerous do what you can to protect yourself and your friends because this simply shouldn't be allowed to happen and so many young people who are supposed to go on to do amazing things
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
are just being stripped away from that by disgusting, creepy men who think that they have a right to a woman's body and her life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now at around 1230 a.m., David left five NorthTown townhomes and returned to his own apartment,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
We can't blame young college students for wanting to go out and having fun and experiencing life because, as I've said multiple times throughout this video, you, yourself, and anyone else who is going to comment about this being Lauren's fault has probably done the same exact thing and made it home safely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Most of us have had too much to drink or been out partying in their college life or even beyond their college life or even before their college life in high school and have made it home safely. And we don't think about that. We don't think that this could have ended badly for me because I went home alone or because...
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I, you know, talked to random people that I didn't know or because, you know, I wasn't with my friends or, you know, even if you saw a friend go home alone, you don't think about, wow, they could have just been harmed because most of us get home safely. But for those who don't, it's not their fault. It's not their fault for doing exactly what every single other person does.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
while lauren stayed at jay's apartment david stayed at his own apartment until around 11 a.m the next day which is confirmed by surveillance footage and an fbi administered polygraph test that he took after all of this happened which we will get more into later but i do just want to say that he was pretty much at home the rest of the night so lauren left this party and walked a few blocks over to kilroy's sports bar at around 1 46 a.m and she showed a fake id to get in
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
And it's not their fault for other creepy men or women who decide that they for some reason are entitled to someone else's life. It's not their fault. So that is all I'm going to say about that before I just go on a tangent and start repeating myself. And that is pretty much all I have for possible theories.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Like I said, I think that it's most likely that a stranger took Lauren and did something to her. I don't think that it's the most likely scenario that her friends are involved. And I honestly feel for them if they really didn't have anything to do with this. Imagine you go out with your friend, you let them go off in their own direction and they turn out missing or for that matter, murdered.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Then on top of that, the media just goes out and berates you and constantly blames you for your mistakes. They probably are living with this guilt every single day of their lives, and there's nothing that they can possibly do but hope that one day she receives justice. Imagine letting your friend go off on their own and they didn't get home safely.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
And then imagine on top of that, people come at you and blame you. Just put yourself into their shoes. Obviously, that is if they're not responsible. We can't say that for sure, but I think I just don't think that it's very likely that they are involved. But either way, that is where I'm going to end this video. And now I want to know what you guys think.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I know that this is a huge case that so many people talk about, but I'm really curious to see what you guys think because I've seen so many different theories online. Do you guys think that something happened to Lauren at the hands of her friends or her boyfriend, Jesse Wolf? Or do you think some sort of accident happened?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Do you think that it was Daniel Messel or do you think that it was some other random psycho? Please let me know in the comments. But either way, if you like this video, please make sure to give this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Don't forget to follow my Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Also, if you wish to help support my channel, my Patreon is also linked below. If you have absolutely any case suggestions, please feel free to email them to me at rachelshanacases at gmail.com. Every single case that I cover is a suggestion directly from you guys or my Patreons. So feel free to send those right over. With that, I hope you guys have a great week and I hope to see you next time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Kilroy Sports Bar is more commonly known just as sports by the people who are around there and is frequently visited by Indiana University college students. It has multiple floors, loud music, and a large outdoor patio, and it's just a good time for young people to party and hang out. Now, it's not really known who Lauren showed up with initially or if she even showed up with anyone in general.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I don't know why it seems to be so unclear, but either way, what we do know is that around 2.27 a.m., Lauren and Corey left sports together. So we can either assume that maybe she got there just before him and just got in by herself or that she had initially gone there with Corey, but we don't know either way. So I do assume though that she probably did go in with Corey.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, when leaving, Lauren actually left behind her phone and her shoes at the bar and just walked around barefoot the rest of the night. So obviously many people believe that she was just so intoxicated that she walked around barefoot and just forgot her phone because of that. I will also point out that because she forgot her phone, it was impossible to track her down based on cell phone pings.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
After leaving sports, Lauren and Corey walked two blocks to the Smallwood apartment complex, Lauren's apartment complex, and arrived there at around 2.30 a.m. The two got on the elevator and rode on it up to her fifth floor apartment. But before actually reaching Lauren's apartment, Corey was punched in the face. This punch apparently left him pretty disoriented and bruised up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
It later came out that Corey could have sustained a concussion from the punch. and couldn't really remember the fight or what really happened after it. So we don't really have confirmed details on who was the one that actually punched Corey, but many people think that it was another Indiana University student named Zach Oakes.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
you know, make this type of comment, then you will be hidden from this channel because I'm just not going to accept that. I'm sick of people commenting that, oh, she did this so it's her fault for, you know, what other people did to her. Absolutely not. I will not accept that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Apparently, Zach noticed that Lauren was very intoxicated and asked her if she was okay, and Corey was just kind of like, she's okay, I got it. Zach then apparently told Corey to take Lauren home because she
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
didn't seem to be all there and Corey said something mean or inappropriate apparently and we don't really know what he said but either way whatever he said caused Zach allegedly to punch Corey. Again we don't really know if this is 100% accurate. We don't know if it really was Zach who was the one that really punched Corey. We don't know if Corey was being belligerent
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Or inappropriate towards Lauren. And that's why he punched him. It honestly could have been the other way around. Maybe Zach was being weird towards Lauren. And Corey said something. So Zach punched him in the face. I don't know. We don't know 100% what really went down. Of course both sides are going to make themselves known.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
seemed better, and again, Corey said he doesn't really remember the fight. Now, it has been reported that this altercation took place outside of Lauren's apartment in the hallway. We don't know if this is true for sure. It does seem like the most likely place that this happened, but what we do know is that Lauren and Corey actually left the apartment after all of this happened.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Then, at around 2.48 a.m., Lauren was seen walking into an alleyway between College Ave and Morton Street.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
then at 2 51 a.m surveillance video picks up lauren leaving the alleyway into an empty lot by five north town townhomes police later said that lauren was seen on surveillance video somewhere between her apartment and the exit of this alleyway and that she was seen with someone who police have not released the identity of it was also found that lauren's keys and her purse were left in this alleyway but
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
It didn't seem that Lauren was in any sort of panic or distress at the time when she was exiting the alley. Then, later that night, Lauren ended up at Cory's apartment where he lived with his roommate Mike Beth. Apparently, Mike did not go out that night and decided to stay in so that he could work on some papers that were due the next day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
According to Mike, Cory got home and was very intoxicated and was stumbling around and vomited on the floor as he was walking into his room. so Mike helped him into his bed. After he helped Corey into his bed, the story becomes a little bit unclear. In one version of the story, Mike says that Lauren had actually left by the time he got back downstairs from Corey's room.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
But either way, this is a case that we can learn from and use as an example of why we need to do a better job at taking care of our friends and our loved ones. With that being said, let's just get right into today's case. Today we are going to be discussing the unsolved disappearance of Lauren Spierer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, in another story he said that Lauren was still there when he got there and he tried to convince her just to stay the night at their place because she was so heavily intoxicated that it would have been dangerous for her to go and walk home by herself. But she refused and said that she did just want to walk home by herself. So we don't really know which story is true.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
But what we do know is that at 3.38 a.m., Mike called Jay Rosenbaum, the friend that they had hung out with earlier and who was their neighbor. On this phone call, Mike told Jay that, you know, Lauren was really drunk and that she was just trying to get Mike to have more drinks with her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So he asked Jay if Lauren could come over to his place so that he could keep an eye on her and make sure that she was safe. When Lauren got to Jay's apartment, he noticed that Lauren had a bruise under her eye, but she couldn't explain how she got it. Then, at around 4 15 a.m., Jay had made two phone calls.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
First, he called David Roan, the friend who had initially went over to Jay's house around midnight that night with Lauren. This makes sense that he would try to get a hold of David if he was trying to get Lauren to go back home, Maybe he was trying to get David to come over and pick up Lauren and walk with her home so that she was safe because, you know, they lived in the same apartment complex.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
But either way, David did not answer his phone, so Jay called another friend who also didn't answer. Then at about 4.30 a.m., Lauren told Jay that she just wanted to go home and sleep in her own apartment, so she left.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
The very last place that Jay reported seeing Lauren was on the intersection of 11th Street and College Avenue, heading down College Avenue, wearing her white tank top, black leggings, and was still barefoot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
So I don't know for sure if he walked with her, you know, halfway to see if she was okay and then turned around once she looked fine, or if he just watched her from the window until he couldn't see her anymore. It was reported in most sources that he just watched her from the window to make sure she was going in the right direction. But we don't know for sure.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
I saw a lot of places that said that, you know, this is the last place he saw her and didn't say why he saw her or how, like, if he was walking, like I said. But I think that he probably... just was watching from the window.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, we can't necessarily blame him for not walking with her all the way home, even though most of us can agree that even if she hadn't gone missing, even if this entire thing never happened, he definitely should have and it did turn out to be a giant mistake because after this, She was never seen again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, I want to go back a little bit in the timeline and tell you about a sighting that happened before Lauren went back to Corey and Mike's apartment. At around 3.38 a.m. at 10th Street and College Avenue, a witness claimed to have seen an unknown man throwing an intoxicated woman who matched Lauren's description. over his shoulder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Lauren Spierer was born January 17, 1991 in Scarsdale, Westchester County, New York to her parents Charlene and Robert Spierer. Her family described her as being intelligent and caring. Before Lauren graduated high school in 2009, she had spent summer camps in the mountains of Hansdale, Pennsylvania at Camp Tawanda.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
However, this sighting has not been confirmed and surveillance footage failed to show this as well. But a private investigator hired by Lauren's parents stated that he also interviewed the witness and thinks that it could have been Lauren but that the witness just could have had the time wrong and that could be why it doesn't seem to be all that accurate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Another unconfirmed but very scary story came from a homeless man who reportedly heard a woman screaming near where Lauren was last seen around 4 35 a.m. We don't know exactly who this man is who made the claim, but apparently police tracked it down to a well-known local named Franklin Road Dog Crawford. Unfortunately, though, just a few days after Lauren went missing,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
this man had actually passed away. If the timeline is correct and what this man said was true, I think it is unfortunately very possible that this could have been Lauren. This fits the timeline almost too perfectly and was in the same exact location that Lauren was walking home alone, very intoxicated. Hearing this information honestly just sent a complete shiver down my spine.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Now, early in the afternoon after Lauren went missing, her boyfriend, Jesse Wolf, was trying to get a hold of Lauren by repeatedly texting and calling her. However, an employee at sports contacted Jesse to let him know that Lauren had left her phone at the bar. After this, Jesse reached out to Lauren's roommate, Hadar Tamir, to meet up with him on campus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Her roommate gave Jesse the spare key so that he could go into their apartment and check on Lauren. Now, like I mentioned earlier, Jesse and Lauren had met at that camp in Pennsylvania. He lived in a house off campus just north of campus, and the night Lauren went missing, he had apparently just chilled at home and went to bed at around 2.30 a.m.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
around 4 30 p.m on june 3rd lauren's friends officially reported her missing to the bloomingdale police department after they did so lauren's sister rebecca called their parents to let them know that lauren is missing they then called jesse who was already at the police station at the time immediately robert and charlene started calling hospitals and different clinics in bloomingdale to see if anyone had seen
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
Lauren. Soon after this, they headed over to Indiana University. The days and weeks following the disappearance consisted of extensive searches, tips, news coverage and press conferences. On June 7th, Lauren's story appeared on Good Morning America and CBS News. Police got a search warrant on Lauren's apartment building and requested surveillance from multiple different places.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
On June 8th, police divers searched Lake Monroe based on a credible tip that had come in, but it didn't end up finding anything useful. On June 9th, Lauren's family put up a $100,000 reward for any information leading to Lauren's safe return.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
After this, tips came flooding in and this is when police learned of the altercation between Corey Rossman and the other young man outside of Lauren's apartment the night that she went missing. By June 10th, police announced that they had 10 persons of interest and Corey Rossman and Mike Beth both submitted to DNA tests that day.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
Where Is Lauren Spierer?
This is where she met a bunch of new friends, one of which being Jay Rosenbaum and her boyfriend Jesse Wolf. Both of those names will be important later on in the video, so just remember them. But either way, this camp is where her and her friends decided that they wanted to go to Indiana University.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Passing this exam would help him get a job in information technology. He said that if this didn't work out, he wanted to learn how to fix heating and cooling systems and get a job in that area. Also, as we know, Melvin has a small child who he was apparently trying to get custody of this time as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So, by all accounts, it looked like, yeah, he might have had trouble with using drugs occasionally, maybe he was trying to meet different women through dating apps, but otherwise, he was doing great for himself. He was studying, going to school, trying to get a job. So again, as we know, he was released from prison shortly before he met Lauren,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
and had all of these other things going on that lauren had no idea about until she did this research into him. of course finding out all of this just left a knot in her stomach and she was ready to finally end things with him. she returned back to campus on october 9th but she was supposed to attend a wedding with him that evening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
she called alex to tell her about everything that she had found out and that she wanted to break up with him but she couldn't just text him and never see him again because she actually let him borrow her car for the week while she was home for break.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Alex told Lauren that she definitely should not be going to that wedding, that she needed to go somewhere in public with Melvin and end things that way. So again, it seemed like Alex just wanted what was best for her friend and she was trying to tell Lauren different things to try and keep her safe, which
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
i really admire alex for but as lauren would later tell alex she actually found out that while she was talking on the phone with alex and talking about how she wanted to end things with melvin he was actually standing outside of her apartment and he was crouched below her bedroom window watching her and listening to her as soon as she hung up the phone he busted into her bedroom to confront her about what she had just said to alex
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
He said, how dare she talk about the relationship with someone else? So Lauren used that as an opportunity to confront him about his criminal record. She told him about how she knew about his real age, his real name, his status as a registered sex offender. And she broke up with him right then and there. But Melvin told Lauren that he actually didn't do anything that he was sent to jail for.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
When she was little, she could be found climbing trees and climbing walls. Lauren absolutely loved animals and volunteered at the Whitman County Humane Society helping to socialize cats so they would be easier to find homes. She also had two cats of her own, Fuzzy and Victory, who she adored. She also spent her time volunteering at the YMCA and for the Special Olympics.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
He said that he was framed by a girl at a frat party. He said that the girl in question was actually 17 years old and not 13 years old, and he did not do anything wrong. He said that apparently she just accused him of this for the fun of it. and he said that he only pled guilty to these charges because he had to, which I don't really know what that means, but okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Lauren did not buy any of this, though. She wasn't as naive as he might have thought that she was, and she tried to make him leave, but he wouldn't. According to Alex, every time she tried to get him to leave, he would force himself on her sexually. This happened several times throughout the night according to Alex and he did end up spending the night there.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So by that next day, October 10th, Lauren told Melvin that she had track practice that day and so she had to leave. So Melvin said okay and he left but he actually took Lauren's car with him so that he could run some errands. But after Melvin left, she realized that she didn't have track practice like she thought she did
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So she stayed home and called Alex on the phone to tell her everything that had happened that previous night. She told her about how he busted into her room, about her breaking up with him, and about how he forced himself on her multiple times throughout the night. Then later that day, Lauren started receiving mysterious text messages from numbers that she did not recognize.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
The first message was from a random number and it said, why'd you break up with the big guy? He really loves you. After this message, she got yet another message from another number,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This text message was supposedly from a friend of Melvin's who said that he was actually going to be the one who was dropping her car back off to her, not Melvin, because Melvin could not stand to look at her after this breakup. So after telling her mother about this, Jill, Lauren's mother,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
decided to call the campus dispatch to request that a security officer actually go and get Lauren's car for her. She said that she was really worried because Lauren had recently broken up with Melvin and because of his criminal record and all that, she didn't want him to hurt her when she met up with him to get her car back.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
The assumption was that it wasn't actually Melvin's friends that was trying to arrange to pick up the car, that it was actually Melvin from a fake number. So they basically arranged for the car to be left at the stadium, at the university stadium, And then she had a security officer go pick up the car for her and this car was picked up without any problem.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But Lauren continued to get these mysterious text messages from numbers that she didn't recognize. She received one text saying, go kill yourself. And then two days later, she got another message from another number telling her that Melvin was actually dead, that he killed himself because of Lauren, and this phone number asked her if she would be attending Melvin's funeral.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But she noticed that all of these texts had the same type of grammar and spelling errors that Melvin usually used, so she knew that it was him sending all of these text messages from fake numbers. He had also posted on social media, which Lauren saw, so she knew that Melvin was not dead. But then, Melvin had actually texted Lauren from a number that Lauren knew, so his real number,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
And Lauren told him about these strange text messages that she was getting. So Melvin asked her to send him screenshots of all of these messages so that he could get to the bottom of trying to figure out who was sending these text messages to her. But either way, Lauren also got into contact with University Police to report these messages.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She sent them screenshots and showed them all of the evidence that she had at that time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She was described by some as quiet, but her parents would say that more accurately, she chose her words carefully. She loved being with friends, she loved dancing, singing karaoke, and she even did stand-up comedy from time to time. She was one of those girls who, yeah, she was shy, but once you got to know her, she was a fun ball of energy to be around. Lauren was also a devout Christian.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But even still, Lauren continued to receive concerning text messages from random numbers. By October 13th of 2018, Lauren received text messages from a number saying that if she did not pay them, that they were going to release compromising explicit photos of her. This person was demanding $1,000 to delete these pictures of her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She grew up attending Community Congressional United Church of Christ, and in college, she attended Capital Church in Salt Lake City.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
One of the pictures that was threatening to be released was actually one that Lauren knew that she took with Melvin, so she pretty much knew that this was still Melvin who was texting her. She was panicked at this point because she had worked so hard to achieve everything in her life. She was about to graduate and she didn't want pictures like this of her, like,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
circulating around and ruining her reputation, so she did go ahead and Venmo the $1,000 to Melvin, even though the account that she sent it to was not technically under Melvin's name. It's pretty much assumed that it was him at this point.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She reached out to campus police once again to report this as well and provided them with screenshots, and she also inquired about the original report that she had made.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
she was also a member of the fellowship of christian athletes at the university of utah lauren was known to be an incredible athlete when she was eight years old she entered her first junior olympic association track meet and set the junior olympic records in high jump long jump and 400 meter run when she was nine years old she qualified for nationals and competed in high jump hurdles and multi-events
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
earning USA Track and Field All-American 19 times and setting several records, 12 of which still stand. As she competed at the national level, she made friendships with so many different athletes across the country, their families, and different coaches from all over.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So I believe this original report that she made, she did go down to the station and speak with an officer who took down her information. According to Alex, who went with her, the officer didn't even take her into an interview room to question her further about this situation that was going on.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Alex said that once Lauren told the officer Melvin's name, the officer looked him up and basically said that he seems like a nice guy who didn't have a criminal record besides a parking ticket. They would later find out that this officer actually found a student at the university with the same name who didn't have a record, so it wasn't even the right person.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But apparently after this, after the officer was like, no, he doesn't actually have a criminal record, Lauren was like, no. He does have a criminal record and she showed the officer how much of a record he actually had. But still, the officer didn't really seem to think that Melvin was much of an immediate danger to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
He even suggested that maybe somebody else hacked Melvin's phones and they were the one that were making these threats. But then apparently he did take down this report and then contacted the on-call detective who coordinated the steps to have a police supervisor, you know, gain further information and question Lauren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But days passed before detectives would look into the evidence that she provided and get back into contact with Lauren. During this time, Lauren was getting very anxious and upset at the fact that they were taking so long to get back to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She went ahead and contacted the Salt Lake City Police to see if they could help her, but they told her that this extortion case was actually covered under the university's police jurisdiction, so they routed her back to them and told her that there was nothing that they could do to help her. By October 19th, so several days had passed at this point, Lauren called the Salt Lake City Police again
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
saying that she had been working with the university police, but nothing was being done and she was continuing to get these harassing phone calls and text messages. She told police that she was concerned that the person who was harassing her seemed to know about the police involvement and what the police were doing with her case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But once again, Salt Lake City police told her that she would have to go back to the campus police and figure this out with them. Hi. Hi.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
hello everyone my name is rachel and welcome back to my channel so the video that i have for you guys today is one that i know is going to frustrate every single one of you to your wit's end i would have to say that this is one of the most frustrating and blatant cases of a murder that easily could have been prevented had police just listened to a young woman who was screaming and begging for help a case where lauren and her friends and her family did everything right
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
By the time she entered high school as a freshman, she was the Washington State high school champion in high jump, and she placed second in 100 meter hurdles. By the time her junior year came around, she trained at Spire Institute and attended Andrews Osborne Academy in Ohio, before returning to Pullman to finish off her senior year of high school.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So finally, that same day on October 19th, an officer from the university finally called her back to ask her more about the situation, and this is when they finally actually opened a case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Apparently, the reason that this took so long was because the detective that was assigned to her case was on vacation at this time, so no one else was tasked with investigating this case, so nobody was looking at it this entire time. Either way, in this call with the detective, Lauren told him about how she had been dating Melvin, she gave details into their relationship,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
and she said about how they broke up and she said that she believes that the person who is extorting her was Melvin because like I said earlier, the pictures that were being threatened to release were pictures that she took with Melvin and only he had access to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
At the 2015 Washington State High School Meet, she qualified in four events, scoring in three, and helping her team place third overall in the state. She also set the Pullman High record for the 100-meter hurdles and placed ninth at the US Junior Championships in the Hypathlon that year.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
During this phone call, she also told the officer that she had received a call from an unfamiliar number who was continuing to make these threats. She said that she knew the caller was Melvin because she recognized his voice. The officer asked if there was any threats of violence during this call and she said there was not.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So during this call, the officer basically explained to her that they were going to have to get subpoenas and other evidence in order to proceed with this case and that this is a process that can take quite some time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
The officer said that because these extortion threats were coming from different phone numbers using different names and multiple bank accounts, they were not able to confirm that Melvin was the one responsible for the extortion. So this is where they left the case and they told her that if she got any more harassing calls or texts to get back into contact with them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Then by October 22nd, surprise, surprise, Lauren received even more alarming text messages. She got a text from somebody who is claiming to be the deputy chief of campus police and was asking her to go to the police station. The text read, I plan on calling you, but I'm in a meeting at the moment. Can you go to the station as soon as possible? There's something I need for you to see.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
I will go over the details when you get here. But Lauren was still very suspicious of this. She knew that it was possible that the person was actually not an officer and that maybe this could be an attempt at trying to lure her out of her apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Once again, she contacted the campus police to report this and they told her that none of them there texted her and they told her not to respond to this text message. Of course, Lauren knew that this was Melvin, so she called Alex to tell her what happened and confirmed to her that she did report this to the police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
We would later find out that even though she was reporting a real crime impersonating a police officer, no one did anything except for telling her to ignore this text message. That same day, on October 22nd, Melvin had snuck into Lauren's apartment building at around 3pm and just sat there and waited for her in her apartment lobby.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She was out in classes until about 8.20pm when she arrived back in the parking lot at her campus apartment where she was met with Melvin. At this time, she was on the phone talking to her mother, It just so happened that at this time, Jill had put Lauren on speakerphone so that she could hear her dad and that he could talk to her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
They were all just having a normal conversation when all of a sudden, out of the blue, Lauren's parents heard her scream no, and then the line went dead. To them, it sounded like she had just been grabbed. Right away, after they heard this, of course, they were really concerned and panicked, so Lauren's dad, Matt, contacted the campus police.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Lauren went on to graduate from Pullman High School with honors and accepted a track and field scholarship at the University of Utah to compete in the Pac-12 Conference. There she competed in multi events and high jump. She earned a Pac-12 honorable mention, an MPSF All Academic Awards at her school, and is 10th on the all-time performance list for her high school and the university pentathlon.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Police were immediately dispatched to the area who saw that Lauren's backpack and her phone were on the ground. It was thought that she had these items and then she was grabbed and that is when she dropped her stuff. Initially, police did not find Lauren in that parking lot. However, ultimately police discovered Lauren's body in the back of the car that was parked in the parking lot.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Those around Lauren were amazed with her work ethic in the classroom, weight room, and on the track. She never complained, even when things got really tough, even if the weather was bad, or any other time. and she truly blossomed in college. She was incredibly smart and her professors, classmates, teammates, and coaches all loved and admired her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She had already been deceased at that point after suffering multiple gunshot wounds. But Melvin was nowhere to be found. At that point, police were confident that Melvin was responsible for the shooting with a gun that he borrowed from a friend. So they knew this because of how many reports she had made that they had ignored.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
They concluded that Melvin had driven this car onto campus, confronted Lauren in the parking lot, and then grabbed her and then put her in the back of this car and then shot her multiple times. It was discovered that after the shooting, Melvin had gotten into contact with a woman that he had met on a dating site to come and pick him up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So I'm not exactly sure where she picked him up from, clearly not from where he just shot somebody, but he was picked up from the campus. Either way, this woman picked him up, the two went to dinner, and then he went over to this woman's house and then took a shower. After this, this woman dropped Melvin back off at a coffee shop.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
That same night, police put a picture out of Melvin on the news to see if anybody in the public could help in identifying him. And I believe it was the same woman who had just dropped him off who called police and told them that she did recognize Melvin. So no, this was not a woman who was an accomplice. It wasn't someone who knew about the shooting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She had just picked up Melvin because she had been dating him. She had known him, the two just went on a date according to what she thought. She didn't know any of this was going on, so as soon as she saw that his picture was on the news, she reported him to police. This woman called police shortly after midnight, now on October 23rd.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Police then spotted him walking along the road because he didn't have a car, so he couldn't have gotten very far after this woman dropped him off. And so they followed Melvin before he entered into a Trinity AME church. As police followed him in though, Melvin saw them and took his own life by shooting himself. So that's how this all ends.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
After doing absolutely nothing about this young woman who called police over 20 times, worried about one specific man who was on parole with a significant criminal history. He killed her before taking his own life and before having to accept responsibility for what he did. He took the coward's way out. I know a lot of people are upset when I say things like that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
I'm not saying that suicide in general is taking the coward's way out, but I think that if you commit a heinous crime like this and then you take your own life before you're able to accept responsibility, that is the coward's way out. This is one of the most heartbreaking cases that I've ever had to look into.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So it seems to me that all of these text messages were attempts to try to get her to come out of her apartment so that he could kill her, but she wasn't falling for it. He wasn't as naive and stupid as he probably thought that she was. So he just decided that he was just gonna wait for her at her apartment until he got the opportunity.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
It actually later came out that after checking the campus security videos, Melvin had visited this campus parking lot over three times over the course of three days, and it showed him walking around searching for Lauren before the shooting actually occurred. After all of this happened, more reports came out about even more missteps that were taken throughout this entire situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So like I mentioned earlier, Lauren's friends went to the campus housing officials to report that this man had been coming onto campus, that they were concerned that he was being abusive and that he talked about bringing a gun onto campus. They expressed to the housing staff that they were scared for Lauren and saying that they are afraid that this man is going to hurt her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
However, even though Lauren was very accomplished and an amazing athlete, she was always very humble and didn't always give herself much credit.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Housing staff agreed to file a report with campus safety but they never did, apparently because their system was down. So no one thought to do it after the system was back up because apparently this case of a young woman being harassed and was, you know, in danger of being harmed, that, you know, wasn't in their minds enough to remember to make this report later.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Campus housing did briefly look into the case, but they were more so concerned with whether Melvin was breaking the rules rather than trying to figure out if Lauren was safe. The housing staff came to the conclusion that they weren't going to do anything because they didn't want to overstep. They said that this was an apparently consensual relationship and that no further action was necessary.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This was because, of course, Lauren was inviting him onto campus, but this was even though Lauren's friends literally said that they are afraid that she is being controlled and that they're afraid for her safety and that they believe that this man is bringing a gun onto campus.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Then over the course of 10 days, Lauren called campus police multiple times with reports of threats, harassment, told them about the breakup, and told them all of these behaviors after they broke up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
When the reporters from her hometown would write about her accomplishments in the local newspaper and would interview her for comments, she would always deflect focus away from her and would talk about how amazing her teammates were and how supportive her family is. Lauren was also a very gifted writer, winning awards all throughout her time in school for writing.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This is absolutely ridiculous because if the housing staff had literally just made this report, reported it to campus safety, reported it to police that these friends are coming, just to be aware, not actually making a report, but just making police aware of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
And then when Lauren was calling with these threats and harassment, maybe they would have made the connection that they should do something about this. It's also ridiculous because if they would have just taken the time to look this man up, then they would have discovered that he is a felon and even owning a firearm is against the law.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
and could be counted as a parole violation, and it could have sent him back to jail. But it came out that the detectives, I believe it was the campus housing or was the campus police, I'm not sure which one, but no one ever ran a background check on him, and apparently they didn't even know how to do so. So by November 2nd, 2018, the university president, Ruth Watkins, said,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
that she had asked an independent investigator to look at the actions taken by law enforcement and other individuals in this case leading up to Lauren's murder. By December 9th, the result of this review found that there were multiple times that these individuals missed out on opportunities to help Lauren.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
They included the fact that Lauren had reported Melvin to housing officials and this information was never passed on, as we already know. Then they pointed out the fact that while this detective that was on Lauren's case was on vacation, They should have been assigned to another officer, but it was not.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She went on to say that their department is understaffed and she said that they need to hire a victim's advocate and that they need to train these police officers in dating violence. However, she did say that she did not believe that any action by University Police could have prevented Lauren's murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
However, a second review later said that if University Police had been in contact with Melvin's parole officer, maybe this could have been prevented, and I agree. Melvin had his parole officer thinking that he was trying to better himself, that he was done with prison, that he was working towards a new job and a new life,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
yet he broke his parole by having a dating app, talking to a woman with a child, he didn't attend therapy, and he didn't meet up with his parole officer when he was supposed to, but apparently these violations are minor. But if his officer had found out that a young woman was making all of these reports of stalking, harassments, and threats made against her at the hands of Melvin,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
maybe this parole officer could have done something. The police department also came out and said that one of the reasons that his status as a felon was missed so many times was because his driver's license was never entered into the system that they use to see if someone's a felon. So when the campus looked up his driver's license, apparently it just did not come up that he was on parole,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Which I do understand. I understand how that could have been missed. But somehow, Lauren was able to figure out who this man was just by using Google. She didn't have access to this system. She didn't put in his driver's license number. She just looked him up by Google. So I cannot wrap my head around how no one in this case bothered to take the five minutes to look deeper into who this man was.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She was a model student athlete, earning herself a 3.77 GPA and was in the process of applying to graduate school to start in 2019. She wanted to eventually graduate and find a job in public relations or academic advising. and she wanted to move somewhere warm, maybe somewhere like San Diego.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
because if someone would have just taken the time to do that, then maybe someone would have figured out who this man really was, who Lauren was really dealing with, knowing that this person was much more dangerous than most people thought, and then maybe someone would have done something to prevent her murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Yet another thing that was disturbing about this case that I want to mention is that one of the detectives that was originally on Lauren's case, Miguel Duras, was fired from his new position with the Logan Police Department. He had actually downloaded explicit photos of Lauren that she had shared with police as evidence.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
He downloaded them to his personal cell phone and showed them to at least one male coworker, bragging to him that he got to view these images whenever he wanted to. This just makes you feel great, doesn't it? Knowing that if you're being harassed and threatened and you share the evidence with the police officers,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
that some disgusting pervert in a badge can download these images and view them for his own personal pleasure. It's disgusting. After this came out, it was obvious how many mistakes were made, and the family did not agree with the university's conclusion that police could not have done anything to prevent her murder.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
The family ended up suing the university because of just how badly this case was mishandled, and they pointed out the very severe missteps that were taken.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
The school initially came back to this lawsuit and said that because Melvin was not a University of Utah student, and that Lauren had willingly invited him onto campus, that they had no duty to protect Lauren against his advances and his harassment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
her family argued that they did have the duty to protect their student regardless of who their attacker was which let me just pause for a minute to let you digest that the university originally claimed that because the attacker wasn't their student that even though the person being attacked was their student and even though she called the salt lake city police multiple times and was told that this is the university's problem they said that they did not have the duty to protect her
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So if the university didn't have the duty to protect her and the Salt Lake City Police didn't have the duty to protect her, who did? If students cannot feel comfortable going on college campuses being protected from disgusting perverts who enter their campus, who is going to protect them? That was just such a disgusting statement that really did not sit right with me, as you guys can tell.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
It really bothered me reading that, but other students came out and said that they also had reported instances of harassment to the police who did absolutely nothing. This happened over the course of several years, so apparently this seems to be a theme at the University of Utah. But by October of 2020, the school settled the case and they were ordered to pay $10.5 million to the McCluskey family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
After they settled, the University of Utah's president, Ruth Watkins, came out with a statement saying that they deeply regret and they acknowledge that they did not handle Lauren's case as they should have They said that they failed Lauren and her family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Her graduation date was nearing and so her senior year of college, she really started to flourish in her confidence and her sociability. She spent much of her life with her head down, concentrated on her goals and going on a very straight edge path. However, her senior year, it seemed that her upcoming graduation put her in really good spirits.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So this was in stark contrast with their original statement, which basically said that there wasn't much that they could have done to prevent her murder. And I am glad that they did ultimately have to take responsibility for the mistakes that happened in this case. Lauren's family came out publicly and said that they absolutely do not want to benefit financially from this situation.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
they said that every single penny that they receive will go towards the lauren mccluskey foundation the family set up the lauren mccluskey foundation with the mission of supporting charitable work in multiple areas according to the foundation's website they want to help fund research and education programs as well as resources to improve safety on college campuses additionally they wish to provide financial assistance for student and youth track and field athletes
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
They also want to put money towards animal welfare, helping support animal shelters and programs, all in Lauren's honor. So far, the Lauren McCluskey Foundation has done so many things. They've sponsored 10 local young athletes to help them participate in the Learn by Doing Clinic in Spokane, Washington.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This clinic provides informative, hands-on track experiences aimed at allowing coaches and high school athletes to learn from some of the country's top athletes and coaches. They also added a 400 square foot addition to the Whitman County Humane Society in Pullman
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
which allowed them to install eight modern kennels, which allowed them to double the numbers of kittens and cats that can be housed there. They named this addition the Lauren McCluskey's Cat Wing. They also helped pass the Campus Safety Act, which aims to implement provisions to help improve campus safety and provide additional training at institutes of higher education.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This was signed into law in March of 2019,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
they also established the lauren mccluskey memorial athletic scholarship at the university of idaho because lauren had practiced at their facilities for many years growing up and even spent her winter breaks there during college they have done so many more amazing things and if you want to find out more about their accomplishments and the work that they're doing and their missions or if you want to donate
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
make sure you visit the Lauren McCluskey Foundation's website, which of course will be linked down below. The McCluskey family has also come out to acknowledge the positive changing that they're happy to be seeing around the University of Utah campus. One of these changes is Lauren's promise.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This is basically a promise that professors can make by putting a statement on their college syllabuses to let students know that somebody is listening, that somebody is going to believe them, and then help steer them in the right direction and provide them with the resources that they need. Matt McCluskey is proud that Lauren's Promise has not just become statewide, but nationwide.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Professors from over 30 universities across the country have accepted Lauren's Promise to let their students know on their syllabus that somebody is listening. The Lauren McCluskey Foundation also has stickers that you can get through their website that say, I made Lauren's Promise. I will listen and believe you if someone's threatening you.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
You can go to their website and it says that they will mail you a sticker for free while supplies last. So if any of you are teachers or you're in a position to help others and want to make them know that you are listening, I encourage you to join the many people across the country who are taking on Lauren's Promise
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She was looking forward to being done with the pressures that came with school. The deadline, the papers, the studying. She started going out to downtown Salt Lake with her friends, even going to karaoke nights and getting up on that stage and singing in front of a room full of her friends and strangers. She was building her confidence and she was excited for what the future held.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
and taking the very easy step to help others and let them know that you are listening. I always say how amazing it is to see the families of these victims making such a difference for other people in these situations. It's so amazing when families use these unspeakable tragedies that they have had to go through and make something so positive out of it.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Lauren's family has done so much not only to help other victims, but to help animals and other young students who want to run track and field just like Lauren did. I am so, so very impressed by them and I am so amazed with the work that they have been able to accomplish. But either way, that is where I'm going to end today's case. I know this was a tough one.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
I know that this was a lot to take in and to listen to, but I hope that this case can give some insight into how these cases are handled. I hope this teaches people that these cases need to be taken seriously You do not need to wait until it's too late to help someone that is being stalked and harassed.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Lauren was such a beautiful, bright young woman who did everything in her power to prevent this from happening. She had supportive friends. She had supportive family. She got the police involved. She got the campus involved. She did everything that she could to prevent this, yet somehow, This is how it ended for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
I'm upset that Melvin decided to take his own life rather than being a man and facing the consequences for his actions. I'm glad that he's not alive anymore to harm any more women or anybody else, but now he doesn't have to take responsibility for anything that he's done, and that is very, very upsetting.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Of course, my heart goes out to Lauren and her family and her friends and her classmates and everybody else who loved and cared about her. But either way, that is where I'm going to end today's video. You guys know that I can rant on and on and on about the injustices in this case, but you already know. You already see them.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
If you liked this video, please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up. And subscribe to my channel. I put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week. Don't forget to go ahead and turn the notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos. Make sure you go ahead and head over to GlassesUSA.com for 65% off of your first pair of glasses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Make sure you go ahead and follow my Twitter and Instagram. Both will be linked down below. And if you have absolutely any case suggestions, please make sure you send those suggestions over to my email at RachelShannonCases at gmail.com. With that, I hope you guys have a great week. Stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope to see you next time. Bye!
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Lauren and her mother Jill were incredibly close even when she went off to college. The two would speak every single day, sometimes multiple times per day, about everything, whether it was about Lauren's workload or boys or track. Naturally, Jill was a worried mother.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She only wanted what was the best for her daughter, and being so close to one another, Jill got a really good look into what Lauren's life was like.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
she was 21 years old she was beautiful and she was driven but she never really spent too much time dating she had a couple of short-term boyfriends but nothing was ever serious she had her goals she was so focused and she had dreams of one day becoming an olympian However, during Lauren's senior year, she met a 28-year-old man who introduced himself as Sean.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So one night, Lauren and her roommate at the time, Alex, decided to go to downtown Salt Lake to a bar called the London Belle. This is where she met Sean, who worked there as a bouncer. He was tall and muscular, and he definitely looked the role of a bouncer, and something about him caught Lauren's eye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
When they got into the bar that night, Lauren could tell that Sean would often come over to their table and sort of check in on them every now and then, and she could just kind of tell that Sean was into her. So that night, she decided to write down her phone number on a napkin, and she gave it to Sean as they were leaving the bar.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
this was definitely a move that lauren would not have normally done but again it was her senior year and she was starting to be more confident later the next day sean had texted lauren and she was really excited about a date that they had set up later that same day at the rock climbing gym on the first date he bought her a bouquet of roses he took her out for dinner and he even wanted her to meet his friends so that he could show off his beautiful date after this date lauren called her mom jill in excitement
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
They did everything that you're supposed to do in a case like this, but nothing was done. There were so, so many missteps in this case that led to a bright, beautiful, amazing young woman being murdered for absolutely no reason. I have been so stuck on this case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
she gushed on the phone about how handsome he was, how sweet and gentlemanly he was. So Sean told Lauren that he actually was not from Salt Lake or Utah, he grew up in New York, and he was actually only working part-time as a bouncer so that he could pay for his associate's degree in computer science at Salt Lake Community College.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Now, Jill, Lauren's mother, was a little bit off-put at the fact that Sean was 28 years old, so he was a bit older than Lauren, who was only 21. But Lauren had always been pretty mature for her age, so Jill was not surprised that she was kind of into older and more mature men.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
As the two started dating, Lauren's roommate and her very close friend Alex was very excited for her, and they seemed like a really good couple at first. He would take her out for dates, he would get her flowers all the time, and he seemed like the perfect gentleman. But very quickly, Alex started to notice some things that were a bit strange about their relationship.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
One thing was that Sean stayed the night in Lauren's campus apartment room almost every single night. She couldn't understand how Lauren, a 5'9 athlete and a much larger, taller, more muscular man, could be comfortable sleeping in her twin-size student apartment bed. She also sort of wondered why Sean was over at Lauren's place so much. She thought, doesn't he have his own place?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
However, at this time, I could definitely see how this wouldn't necessarily be weird. When people start dating, I feel like it's totally natural to just want to spend every waking moment together, even if that means kind of more uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. So that isn't the most bizarre thing ever.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
but it is a bit weird if they were really only going to Lauren's place and never over to his place. But then, only a week into their relationship, Alex started to notice some very concerning behaviors in their relationship. Lauren would say some things to Alex that sort of stood out to her and made her feel that maybe Sean was a bit controlling.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Lauren would say things like, he told me to wear a jeans and t-shirt, or he told her that it was okay if she invited her friends to the bar, which of course Alex questioned why she would need his permission to bring her friends to the bar in the first place. She also noticed that she would rush over to her phone to reply to his text message to avoid replying too late.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
It even got to the point that if Lauren was driving, she would ask Alex to reply to him on her phone so that she wouldn't take too long to reply. even though she was driving. She would be anxious about being late to their dates and would rush to get ready to make sure she got there on time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
I've been looking into it for quite some time now, and I have to say that this is one of the biggest misjustices that I've ever experienced. encountered in a case that I have covered on this channel. Be ready to be angry, be ready to be frustrated, and be ready to wish that something more would have been done in this case to prevent this from happening.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Alex noticed that he didn't want her to go out without him because he was afraid that she would talk to other men. If he called her, Alex could hear him starting out most phone calls with, where are you? What are you doing? And who are you with? So Alex started asking Lauren about this. She was getting worried for her friend and she wanted to make sure that she was okay.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She started telling Lauren that these behaviors are not normal. They're controlling. But Lauren pretty much just told Alex that Sean had been cheated on in previous relationships and he was just really worried. He had some trust issues, but their relationship was still very new. Lauren reassured Alex that once they got to know each other better, once they established their relationship and
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
you know, establish their boundaries and all that, that things were going to get a lot better. So Alex did not push it too much. Alex would later say that she knew about situations where, you know, men would try to cut off their girlfriends from their other friends if they got an idea that their friends were starting to catch on to their bad behaviors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Alex wanted to make sure that Lauren always had someone that she could always go to and always count on and she didn't want to risk a situation where Lauren would be cut off from Alex, so Alex didn't push the issue too much farther. However, over the course of the next few weeks, Alex started to notice even more concerning things. Lauren's appearance started to change.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
There were pretty frequent times where Sean would ask Lauren to come pick him up late at night from his job. So of course, doing this made Lauren really tired, She was up late at night doing all these things for Sean when she had her own things to worry about during the day, and Alex started to notice this.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But Alex also noticed that Lauren was losing a little bit of weight, her face looked pale, and her eyes were starting to look glassy. Alex was constantly asking Lauren if something was wrong, if everything with Sean was okay. but even only a few weeks into their relationship, Lauren refused to say anything negative about Sean. That was just her personality.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She didn't have anything negative to say about anybody. Other friends of Lauren started to notice these concerning behaviors in her relationship, so they actually went to the campus housing staff to tell them that they were worried about Lauren and that they were concerned that this man was staying at her apartment way too often.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
They also mentioned to the camping housing staff that Sean had mentioned a few times that he was bringing a gun on campus, and of course, this really concerned her friends. They notified the campus safety of this as well, but for the time being, nothing was done. By fall break of that year, on October 5th, Lauren went back home to Pullman for the week to spend some time with her family.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
At that point, she decided to do some online research about the guy that she was dating, and this is when she found out the very disturbing truth about the man that she had been dating. She found out that his name, Sean, actually was not his real name at all, and he had been lying about his name this entire time. His name was actually Melvin Rowland.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So now, with all of that being said, let's get into today's case. Today, we are going to be discussing the murder of Lauren McCloskey. Laura and Jennifer McCluskey was born on February 12th, 1997 in Berkeley, California to Matt and Jill McCluskey and she had a little brother named Ryan.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She also found out that he was not 28 years old. He was actually 37 years old. And, turns out, Melvin was actually a registered sex offender. So now let's talk more about the man that Lauren was really dating. So Melvin Rowland was in fact born in New York and he was adopted when he was an infant.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
He was described as having a good childhood with no real problems until he was about 15 years old when his adoptive parents passed away. After this, he was placed in a group home until he was about 17 years old and then went to a private school in Colorado for the time being.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
When he was 20 years old, he moved to Utah and started taking classes at the Salt Lake Community College and was working as a CNA or a certified nursing assistant. By 2004, he was charged with enticing a minor over the internet and forcible sexual abuse. He had tried a 13 year old girl that he had met on the internet to have sex with him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Apparently there was a situation where he did the same thing with two other underage girls. And for this, he was sentenced to one to 15 years in prison. He was originally granted parole in 2012, and he was out for two months. In the meantime, he violated his parole four times.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This included failing to meet with his probation officer, failing to participate in his required therapy, possession of pornography, and another violation in relation to his status as a sex offender. I believe this other violation was that he didn't notify a job or something like that about his status as being a sex offender.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Then after that, he was sent back to prison and he stayed there for about a year. By 2013, he was granted another parole and he managed to stay out for two and a half years before once again violating his parole four times and was sent back to prison. These four violations were similar to his previous violations, not going to therapy, not meeting with his probation officer, having pornography,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
And this time he was not supposed to have any access to the internet and he did not listen. In prison, he completed sexual offender therapy and he received a satisfactory grade from his therapist. So once again, he was released from prison in April of 2018. And he told the parole board that this time he was changed. He said that he knew he violated his parole before,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
But he had a child now, and even though he did have issues with his child's mother, having a family had changed him for the better. He said that he had a terrible experience in jail and he did not want to go back. He said that he was willing to work towards bettering himself, attending therapy, and working towards a career.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
His conditions for parole this time was that he could not have any internet access without the parole board's permission, which clearly that worked pretty well last time. he couldn't have any social media accounts, and he had to complete a sex offender program. When he was released, he was labeled a moderate risk offender, which required monthly visits from his parole officer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
When she was a year old, she and her family moved to Pullman, Washington in August of 1998 where her parents started working as professors at Washington State University and with Jill teaching economics and Matt teaching physics. Lauren was described as being very bright from a young age. She was very active, athletic, and fearless.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
From the months of April to October, Melvin had these six visits with his parole officers, and his officers found out about two parole violations. In May of 2018, his parole officer found out that he was messaging different women, you know, texting them on his phone, and one of these women had a five-year-old daughter.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
So first, he was not allowed to speak to anybody who had children unless it was within his family, or if he had permission from the parole board. He admitted to them that the way he had met these women is that he was on different dating sites, which he didn't know counted as social media, but it did. So this too broke his parole.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
His officer gave him a verbal warning and said that he was not allowed on any social media. Then in August of 2018, he tested positive for marijuana, which was also against his parole. Once again, he was given a verbal warning and he was told to talk about this in his next therapy visit. During this time, Melvin was staying in a room at the Homan Hotel near 300 South and Rio Grande Street.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This hotel caters to former inmates, sex offenders, and homeless individuals who just need somewhere to stay. This hotel would often let people stay there for free in exchange for volunteer work or helping maintaining the building. His parole officer also noted that he was studying really hard and was going to school to become a Cisco certified network assistant.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: The Case of Lori Hacking // A Lie to Die For
Hey Leute, mein Name ist Rachel und willkommen zurück auf meinem Kanal.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Hello, you beautiful humans. My name is Rachel and I just listened to part one of the anxiety episode. Fascinating. My question is around the link between creativity and anxiety and how the creativity kind of pulls you out of it and calms it. I've seen a big correlation between most talented, creative humans also being
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
extremely anxious or struggling with depression and anxiety and all of those things, and have even seen some artists or singers, when they find more peace in their life, their art really changes or they stop creating altogether, at least at the same level. So I guess my question is, why is that? Is it kind of a chicken or egg thing? And, you know, it seems like the
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
struggle and anxiety fuel some of the most beautiful things that have ever been created. So we just love your thoughts. Thank you.
What Happened to Talina Zar
The Mattress - Talina Zar E4
I'd literally just talked to her a couple of days before in Messenger and she was fine.
What Happened to Talina Zar
The Mattress - Talina Zar E4
We had talked about COVID. She didn't seem particularly worried about it. She didn't seem to be, like...
What Happened to Talina Zar
The Mattress - Talina Zar E4
And at the time when I read it, I'm like, that just sounds weird. That doesn't sound like Talena.
What Happened to Talina Zar
The Mattress - Talina Zar E4
Everybody's, you know, reaching out to each other. And it's like, has anybody seen Talena? Has anybody here heard from Talena? And there was nothing, nothing. And people reached out to Corey. Have you heard from her? And Corey was just like blowing it off and stuff. No, she's sick. She's up in the woods and whatnot. And the whole situation was just weird.
What Happened to Talina Zar
The Mattress - Talina Zar E4
But COVID was starting to ramp up and people were starting to get sick and stuff right around that time. And, you know, we all tried for several weeks to reach out to Corey and Talena and stuff and just never heard anything.