Oprah Winfrey
Appearances
Behind the Bastards
Bonus: The Bastards of Oprah
Susan, when you were there, did he, I heard that he actually invites medical doctors from around the world to come up and witness him do these things. Is that correct?
Behind the Bastards
Bonus: The Bastards of Oprah
Dr. Jeffrey Rediger traveled to Brazil also to see John of God's work firsthand. Explain, if you can, the medical risks of surgery without anesthesia or proper sterilization. It doesn't look like he's, like, sterilizing the knife or the probe.
Behind the Bastards
Bonus: The Bastards of Oprah
So have people followed up with these people who've gone through these procedures? Maybe infections came later.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Hello, and thank you for listening to the Oprah podcast. Hello to you watching on YouTube. We are diving into today, healing relationships with our loved ones and the one that matters the most, our relationship with ourselves. It's the ultimate. I want you to welcome with me Dr. Tama Bryant. Can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit?
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Yeah. I could see that hit you and it landed. Is that you realize in that moment that Dr. Tamar was talking that you are grieving the idea that you had of him because who he really was, who he really is, is the guy who betrayed you.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Avery, the fact that he cheated on you with those eyes that match your sweater, I don't even know what to say.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Boy, bye. Okay. That is the truth. Thank you so much, Avery. Thank you. Thank you. Have a great rest of your day. I love the fact that you say it matters of the heart that you have a whole chapter, actually, that experiencing infidelity, which, you know, Avery's been going through and grieving this past two years is really a form of loss. and grief and trauma. That's right.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
It's not just infidelity. Yeah. It's a major thing to be betrayed.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
said on a previous podcast to let them go. And you start the book with this. I love this so much. I come to this work as your facilitator, you say. Someone who has experienced living with a full heart, living a busy life with a neglected heart, going through the deep sea diving of living with a broken heart and tenderly and compassionately healing my heart. Why did you need to
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And the level of betrayal sometimes is so profound that you're just like... Girl, please.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
That's your triumph. Yes, yes. And I really, really, really, it resonated with me and I'm sure a lot of you, too, listening to us, what you said to Avery about you are grieving the man you wanted him to be.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And I think for Avery and for anybody else who's going through this, that to get the truth of it helps the healing of your own heart. Yeah. Yeah. She's going to come through it and going to be stronger and better for whoever shows up next. So Stevie is joining us. Stevie's a wife and mother to a toddler. Hi, Stevie. Hi, Stevie. I heard that you wanted to deepen female relationships in your life.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
heal your own heart. First of all, I want to say thank you, Oprah, for having me.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Wow. Preach this evening. Whoa. The fact that she is questioning it, it's just like you said to Avery before, the fact that you're now thinking about, now maybe I'm ready to be interested in somebody else, means the healing has taken place. Yes. So the fact that you are in this space, isn't that a wow, aha for you?
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
The fact that you're in the space of asking the question means that you are spiritually, emotionally, psychologically getting yourself ready for this season that is yours to come.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Yeah, I'm really excited for you. I'm excited for you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Stevie. I could see that that message from Dr. Tama just blessed you right now. And all of us who were able to witness it feel the blessing.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Yeah, go with it. Go with it. Thank you, Stevie. Thank you. Coming up, Dr. Tama explains why so many of us can get caught up in the distractions in our daily lives, like taking care of kids or building careers or focusing on life's challenges instead of taking care of ourselves and our wellness. Sometimes hard to do, I gotta say. I know so many of us do that, don't we? We'll talk about that next.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
We're learning how to heal our relationships with others and ourselves. Author Dr. Tama Bryant is here and she is just full of wisdom on this episode of the Oprah podcast. We have you did that thing right there. That was that was so excellent. Thank you. We have Nastasha joining us from Chicago. Hey, welcome. Hi. How's Chicago? Where are you?
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I know where that is. And I hear after 15 years of nursing and caring for others that you have now come to a revelation about yourself and the matters of your heart. Tell us what that is. What happened?
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And it's so interesting you saying that because I noticed this with a lot of my daughter girls who come to school from South Africa to go to college here. Yeah. where achievement becomes the thing. Yes. Achievement becomes their identity. Achievement.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I had one of my daughter girls who's now a doctor at UPenn, but went to Spelman, graduated summa cum laude, got one B and fell apart over one B because the identity was I'm a straight A student. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
That's right. And so what I have found with a number of my girls is that because so much emphasis has been put on the academics and achieving and being success and you're the first in your family and all of that, they're not as good with the relationships because all the energy goes into making yourself the successful person.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. High five yourself. Yeah. I know that hit a nerve right there.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I think what happened here was an opportunity to see yourself from the point of view of what's really been happening with yourself. I really appreciate it when you said you're not bored. You're just not used to ease. Yes. And you think being still means I'm bored because I have to prove, I have to prove, I have to do, I have to show, I have to, you know. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Can I just stop everybody right now? Because I have known you since you were a little girl. That's right. Because Bethel AME Church, y'all, in Baltimore. was the center of our, not just the city, but the spiritual culture for the city. That's right. And when I first moved from my father's house in Nashville and moved to Baltimore, the first thing he said to me was, find yourself a church home.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I'm so glad this is on tape because you're getting so many ahas so quickly that you're not even going to remember everything she said. I can see you're like, okay, what did she just say? What did she? Okay. It's all on tape, so you don't have to write it down. But I can see that it's hitting you. You're like, huh? Huh? Huh? As I said, we got you here. We got you. We got you.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Well, I want to say you already are worthy. You already are worthy. Already. But that you can be open to accept your worthiness. Yes. That's what you want.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
You want to be open to accept your worthiness because you have refused to see your value and your worthiness. And all of this happened in one Zoom call. This is an amazing thing. This is what happened to you today, Nastasia. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Bless you. Lots to think about. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, I think that I think the reason why it's so interesting talking to Nastasha is that she represents so many people in the world.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I think it's also so important, the question that you asked her, what is the story that you told yourself about being a teen mother? Because she's still carrying that. That's right. And still trying to prove to those women who were in the room when she was picking up her child, I'm good enough, I'm worthy enough, I'm valuable enough, all of that.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Was it hard for you to accept that about yourself?
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And Bethel became my church home. And I used to sit in, I used to come to 8 o'clock service. That's right. Because you couldn't get in at 11 o'clock service. I used to drive all the way from Columbia, Maryland. And I would be mesmerized by your father and your mother. Yeah. Yes. And your mother. Thank you.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Yes. Yeah. That's what she's dealing with, too. That's right. Well, Portia's joining us. She's one of nine children, and I hear you shoulder the burden of being the most successful member of your family. Tell us what's going on.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Okay, so we're not talking about little kids here.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
We're talking about grown women. I wanted to establish that, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
So you decide. Stop right there. Stop right there. That nothing will ever be enough if they see you as their resource, because it will it will always be what else you got, what else you got, what else can you do, what else you got. And that's what you're feeling and that's what you're resentful and angry about. But. your past relationships with them has set this expectation.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And so with Dr. Taylor, I'm speaking from experience. I'm a member of this choir, okay? And so you have got to establish that those days are gone. Yes, this is what I used to do. And now this is what I'm willing to do. It is a decision on your part. And people are going to be mad. They're going to be mad. You're not going to get through it without somebody being mad.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
But you're doing this to save yourself and ultimately to save the relationships that are meant to last.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Well, you know what? I suffered from this for so long. I literally have journals filled with the question of what do I owe? What do I owe? And when is it enough? What do I owe? And when is it enough? And can you help her answer that question?
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Did I ever tell you this? That I became a tither at Bethel. It became my stabilizing force, being a 22-year-old girl moving to a city and not knowing anybody. That was not just my church home. It became my home, my community, my people. Wow. It was everything for me.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Do you believe you have the courage now, the courage for the holiness of no?
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Thank you so much. Thank you, Porsche. When we come back, I'll ask Dr. Tama what it means to live a meaningful life. I want you to think about that question, too. That's next.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Welcome back. I thank you for your company here on the Oprah Podcast. Dr. Tama is about to explain how to be intentional when it comes to healing the relationships in our lives. So you write about the co-creating joy. You say it's an inside job for an individual and a collective job for relationships. It is. Co-create joy with the people you love.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Well, this is the thing. You're a therapist. You're a professor. Yes. You're a minister because you have preached here today. Yeah. How do you describe a life well-lived, a well-lived existence? And what are the guideposts? What does a meaningful life look like when you're operating for matters of the heart? Yes.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Ooh, I'm going to end on that. You are fed even as you pour.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Thank you, Dr. Tamer Bryant for what feels like sacred wisdom. Well, you come at it naturally. Okay. And I thank you to all of my guests today, Natasha and Stevie and Avery and Porsche, um, I so appreciate each of you bringing your whole heart to the conversation about matters of the heart. Dr. Tama's book is called Matters of the Heart, Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And it's available anywhere you buy books. And Dr. Tama reads the audio version herself. Yes. So it's like having an ongoing podcast with you. And those of you who want to, subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss a week. Go well, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
It's different. Yes. It's different. Yeah. But it's there and it's real. She's there. Yeah. So that feels good. In chapter one of Matters of the Heart, you reinforce for us the importance of self-compassion and you define it this way.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
To be compassionate towards yourself means, I love this, you've created space for the fullness of your complex identity and your complicated life, including your fractured heart. The aim is to be able to look at yourself with honesty and appreciation. And the reason why it stopped me in my tracks because I thought, wow, so many people are walking around with fractured hearts.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And the essence of matters of the heart, may I share with you all, is that you got to take care of yourself first. You got to practice compassion for yourself first before you can begin to give it to other people. And what is the best way for people to practice self-compassion, Dr. Tama?
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Let the church say amen. A graduate of Duke University, Dr. Tama Bryant, who goes by Dr. Tama, is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology at Pepperdine University, and an ordained minister. Dr. Tama is the author of three books and is the host of the popular The Homecoming podcast, which raises awareness about mental health.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And then you talk about this overextending yourself results in depletion. I mean, we have seen that over and over and over again, particularly in our community where women have given and given and given and there is nothing left. Nothing. And then don't understand why they are depleted. But you're saying that is the absolute counter opposite of having self-compassion.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
But how do you this is the thing I was reading that I was thinking about all the people who were saying easy for you to say, Oprah, easy for you to say, Dr. Tama, give yourself self-compassion when you are the number one breadwinner, when you are the one taking care of everybody and there's nobody there to take care of you. Where is there room for self-compassion? Right.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
So what should you be pouring? Should you be pouring prayers? Should be pouring, preparing, you know, pouring in silence? What should you be pouring in? Yeah.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Because I think so many and we're speaking to all of you who are just overwhelmed. You're overwhelmed and depleted. Yes. Yes.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I know. I heard another scientist say the sickness often is your body's way of saying, time out, I'm done. I've done. I don't have anything else to give.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Your latest book is called Matters of the Heart, which I was even so touched by the title. Matters of the Heart, Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love. And let me say to all of you who are watching or listening, this book is a treasure. It's a treasure trove of wisdom for any phase of your life. And we have you covered on this episode.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I think one of the things that I really appreciate about Matters of the Heart is that it's not like flipping a switch and all of a sudden you're going to do everything. It's about taking small steps to begin to see yourself differently so that you can then actually know and acknowledge what it is you need to begin to take care of yourself. Because I think so many people...
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
I'm so glad you joined me for this episode of the Oprah podcast. When we come back, Dr. Tama and I talk about how to heal after a betrayal. I think that's an issue so many people can relate to. That's coming up after the break. Thank you for joining us on the Oprah podcast. I am so happy you're here. And I'm back with relationship expert, Dr. Tama Bryant, author of Matters of the Heart.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
And we're about to hear some very personal stories from viewers and listeners who say they are struggling on their path to healing. So let's get to it. I'm so happy that there's so many people here who are interested in the healing process because we heard a lot of people who are in need of improving themselves. Some who are joining us on Zoom today. Avery is one of those people.
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Avery, I hear you're 27. You recently moved to Colorado for a fresh start after experiencing a betrayal, the kind we keep hearing about more and more about. Betrayal leaves you devastated, doesn't it, Dr. Tamer? It's heartbreaking. Can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit?
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You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
You're on the up and up. Okay. What did you want to ask Dr. Tama?
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Phones have revealed a lot of this world. A lot of people got messed up with the phones. Go ahead.
The Oprah Podcast
You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want
Whatever you're going through, Dr. Tama talks about how to set better boundaries, forgiving without receiving an apology. Yes. I'm going to say that again. Forgiving without receiving an apology. Don't we all want to know how to do that? Investing deeper in your current relationships and releasing those in your life who just are not healthy for you to let them, as Mel Robba
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
This episode of The Oprah Podcast is presented by Ulta Beauty. The possibilities are beautiful. It is a joy to be with you here on The Oprah Podcast, and I know your time means a lot to you, so I think it's just so special for me that you all are listening or watching on YouTube. Lots of people... Have Valentine's Day on their minds this week.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Well, you got the best expert here to help you.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Esther sees beyond the stories we tell ourselves. How did you know that? You don't even know her. And she's here to offer her unflinching truths. Say that again. Foreplay starts. At the end of the previous orgasm. So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. I'm so happy.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
You're one of the people who is speaking the truth to families and people in relationships in a way, I think, that resonates profoundly and is actually changing the way people see themselves in their lives and relationships. So power to you for doing that in the world. Thank you. I try. And may I tell you, I don't know how I discovered these cards.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I love what you said about where do you want to go? And I saw something in your eyes. Where do you want to go and what do you want to experience in this sexual encounter that it's not just about the act? Did that resonate with you, Christina?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
That's why women are reluctant. Like if we have a conversation about it, we're going to talk about it. It's going to make you want more of it. And I'm just trying to have a conversation about it. That's what you're saying, Christina. Yes. Yes.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I actually don't even remember how, but I actually ordered these on Amazon for myself. I got them for myself and then I love them so much. I send them out to friends because this is what happens when people come for dinner and Or come over for an evening and not everybody knows everybody.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Because you know cuddling is going to lead you to something else. But a lot of women feel this. A lot of women say this all the time. I just want to cuddle. And you're reluctant to even initiate cuddling because you know it's going to lead to another whole thing.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
You desire her and she desires you. Yes. I hope this has been helpful. Some things to talk about. Think about. Thank you. Best microphones yet. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Next up is Jen, a married mom from Philadelphia. Jen wrote to us about what she called her past baggage. How is that impacting you? What did you want to say, Tess?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
What I found is that if you go through the cards and you pull out the cards and you make sure that the sexy cards are not there, children are there. And then I have a thing where everybody pulls a card and then I have them do another card and then another card. We do rounds of people pulling cards. So you have a whole stack of cards. So you don't just get one card. You get to choose from that card.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Wow. I could cry over that. That resonates really powerfully with me. I heard that. Did you hear it, Jen? Absolutely.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I received it for sure. Oh my God, that was so good.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
The question that you want to answer. And we go around and around. And it is so... Storytelling night. It's storytelling. It becomes storytelling. And it becomes an opportunity for people to express things and say things. I mean, I've learned things about my godchildren that I did not know. And so where should we begin?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I thought that was really powerful. How did you know that? You don't even know her.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
So you're holding on to that, still protecting yourself. Yes.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
That's how you stay in control. Oh, that resonated with me.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And now you're the one who brought up the universe. And so the universe has put you in this position so you can do exactly what Esther was just saying. You can lean back into it. You can lean into him and you can allow. I love those two terms that you used for her. Lean and allow.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Jan, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And for matching the walls in the house, for wearing the blouse that matches the chair that matches the wall. I mean, really, the decor is perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Erica from Texas has been married for 32 years. She has three adult children, and now she's starting to have some doubts Are you about your marriage? Tell us why.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Which is, I know, based on your podcast, you've been doing that popular podcast for a few years now. It. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, which is just a perfect title. I love it. And so where... It's how I start many sessions, you know.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
exploration for creativity for things that are the opposite of i'm taking care of my mom my three children my husband i've been doing it i'm the only daughter i'm the child it's you know my responsibility my duty and you know what's so interesting when you watch this makes me want to cheer up When she asked you, what was your wish? What happened to your face?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And what makes me want to tear up is I know nobody's asked you that. Nobody's asked you that. What do you really want?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I saw it in your eyes, and I know Esther saw it in your eyes. You were like, because you said, me? What? For myself. For myself? Because nobody's asked you that, and you haven't asked you that. You haven't asked you that.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Do you have a thought about what that would be? Have you even thought about that?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Yes. And I love this question. I just pulled these for us today. Something I wish I had been told as a child. What would that be for you? Something I wish I'd been told as a child.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I could see you get that, Erika. I could see you get that. So let's start there.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Yes, I can see that landed. Yes. Yes, it did. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Thank you. Thank you, Erica. Thank you so much. After this break, Esther shares the one thing you can do today to feel more alive in all of your relationships. Don't you want to know what that is? Stay with us. Our friends at Ulta Beauty want to help you honor your bestie in a big way. Share why they're so special in a post, tag your bestie and at Ulta Beauty.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Ulta is going to pay the joy forward with a chance to receive a surprise and delight beauty experience. I so appreciate you taking the time to join us on the Oprah podcast. We're back with more profound truths about love and relationships from Esther Perel. Barbara was married for 20 years to a man she describes as emotionally abusive. Can you tell us briefly what happened? Hi, Barb. Hello.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Was there an affair?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Thank you, Barbara. Thank you. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you very much. One of your most well-known quotes I like so much is this one, that the quality of our relationships determines the quality of our lives. Yes. When did you know this to be true?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And did she ever?
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Oh, that was the day where people were so uncomfortable.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
You know, you've counseled so many thousands of people throughout the world and heard their stories and challenges and relationships. And I'm wondering what you have concluded is the basis for a well-lived life.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And I know that for some people that brings up thoughts of romance and lack of romance. But my guest is renowned, renowned as a relationship therapist, an expert. She studies it. She knows it in her spirit, in her heart, in her brain. Esther Perel says all of our relationships with our family, with our friends, even our neighbors have a real impact on our most intimate relationships.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
That's why I thought the advice that you were giving to Christina and Stefan and to her particularly about her own arousal and eroticism was so poignant because I think for so many people, they think eroticism is only about sex.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Yeah. My answer to that... What would you say? I would say, I wish I had been told that I was loved. Yes. Because I don't... I never, ever heard... I love you or had the feeling of you are loved as a child.
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The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
So not. So not.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
That is why the importance of the erotic is so essential. I love that. I love that you're able to do that for people. I so appreciate that you were able to come here to be a part of the Oprah podcast. Astaire's podcast is called Where Should We Begin? And where should we begin? A game of stories is available on her website, astaireperral.com.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
So thank you to my guests, all of you for asking your thoughtful questions to Erica and Jen and Christina and Stefan and Barbara. Thank you all. A very special thanks to our friends at Ulta Beauty for sponsoring today's episode. Go well, everybody. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I know so many people get so much out of your podcast. Why did you decide to do the podcast? And what was your hope and greatest intention for it?
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Even if it's not your story, you can see yourself in the other story. I hear that you now think that modern romance is going through some kind of change or makeover. What's going on out there? What's changed?
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Oh, into me see.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
That's where we are.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
But when you were saying that, I remember early on in my relationship with Stedman, Maya Angelou, my advisor and friend, a wise woman, was saying, do not, your life is a whole pie. Mm-hmm. Your life is made up of a whole pie, much of what you're just saying about a village. And so do not expect one person to represent everything that the pie is supposed to represent. Totally agree.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
So based upon what you just said, everybody expects your partner now to really be what the realm of the divine used to be in people's lives. Isn't that too much? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
So welcome to the Tea House.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Because you don't fulfill all of those things, I'm going to eliminate you from my life because you are not perfect.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And then that person's not going to be able to do it either. So what is your advice to someone who's listening who may be feeling...
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist and bestselling author who's been counseling couples for over three decades.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Oh, I love that you can have a thousand friends on social media and no one to feed your cat.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
You end up feeling emptier.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Emptier. And you teach a course on turning conflict into connection. Yeah. And I've always wanted to know, why does it seem that couples fight over and over about the same thing?
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
It's not about the straw.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
I think her greatest gift is her intuitive insight into the human heart and mind. She really blows me away. Wow, I could cry over that. That resonates really powerfully with me. I heard that. Did you hear it, Jen? Absolutely. Her hit podcast, Where Should We Begin, is a must-listen for anybody looking to better understand the complexities of relationships.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
You're not my soft place to fall.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
Time for a break, y'all. Up next, Esther's critical advice for busy couples looking to get that spark back in the bedroom. I know that's so common, so you don't want to miss what she says. We'll be back. It's that time of year when we celebrate love, not just romantic love, but also the special connections we share with our best friends.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And what I know for sure is that real friendships bring joy to your life. So now our friends at Ulta Beauty want to help you honor your bestie in a big way. Listen to this. Let's start a ripple effect of joy together. Post about your bestie. Tag them and at Ulta Beauty. Share why they're so special to you.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
And when you do, Ulta is going to pay the joy forward with a chance to receive a surprise and delight Ulta Beauty experience. The possibilities are beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to be with me here. We're back with Esther Perel, host of the hugely popular Where Should We Begin podcast. We're talking about love and relationships of all kinds. Let's get back to it.
The Oprah Podcast
The 3 Things EVERY Human Wants with Esther Perel | The Oprah Podcast
We have guests who are joining us on Zoom that I think a lot of you are going to relate to. So let's jump in. Christina and Stefan are in Atlanta. And I hear that you two are very much in love and you're raising three beautiful boys, four, six and nearly eight. Okay, where should we begin? What's going on? Hi, guys.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Hi, I am so glad that you all are here with me. Welcome to the Oprah Podcast. They are as controversial as they are fascinating, and I know many of you are really curious as I am. So let's hop right into this question. Can psychedelic drugs like psilocybin, also known as magic mushrooms, MDMA, also known as ecstasy, and even LSD, can they heal?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And you told my team about this guy named Bob Parsons, who is a Vietnam veteran. and a business mogul who founded the internet tech company GoDaddy. Y'all remember GoDaddy? Bob is Zooming in. Bob, welcome to the Oprah podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Oh, my goodness. Well, I don't have a beer, but hello, Bob.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Well, thank you, because I'm so interested in knowing what was your PTSD like for you before you had a psychedelic experience? Tell us how you were tormented by it.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Before we begin, I just want to say this. This conversation is not intended to offer medical advice. Psychedelics remain illegal in most states. So I urge you to consult your own health care professional before considering any kind of treatment. So I read your book back in 2018, How to Change Your Mind. And when it was first published, it was really, I would have to say, eye-opening.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And I just want to say this was at a time when nobody was talking about this. Nobody was saying, oh, you know, you're probably suffering from depression or PTSD. You just had to figure it out yourself. And your family and everybody around you is like, what has happened to this guy?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Could you feel that there was something wrong with you, Bob? Could you feel that whatever this is, it's not normal or not right? Absolutely. Had you tried other therapy before?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
From these four experiences. So what happened during the experience? Did you see yourself differently? Did you experience the trauma? Did you relive the experience? What actually happened? Can you tell us?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So, Bob, can I ask you this? One of the things Michael shared with us is that in one of his experiences, he came away with this feeling that love is everything. Did it open you up to experience love, loving, being loved differently?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So you and your wife, Renee, now have donated millions, I understand, to research, even funding a center on psychedelic healing at Mount Sinai in New York. What are you hoping for?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I was surprised that you, Michael Pollan, who had done all of these wonderful books about food and the omnivore's dilemma and what we should be eating, had now stepped into another realm of the plant world.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So, Bob, can I ask you, do you continue to try various forms of psychedelics or other drugs? Or was that experience that four days enough for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah. That's why you and Renee have created the center.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Thank you, Bob, for joining us and sharing that story. And maybe one day we'll have that beer.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
A shot and a beer. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you, Bob. The best to you and Renee. The brilliant Michael Pollan is here with me on the Oprah Podcast, and we're about to meet a father and daughter who've used psychedelics for different reasons to help unlock childhood trauma and to help ease symptoms of OCD.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And I found it eye-opening and challenging for me because I'll admit that I have had and continue to have preconceived notions and judgments around psychedelics. And at the time, I didn't think our culture or I, for that matter, was ready for this conversation. I thought, whoa, that's really... This is really bold of Michael to do this in 2018, which at the time it was.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You may be hearing a lot these days about the use of psychedelics to help heal mental trauma. And that's why I thought this would be a very interesting conversation for the Oprah podcast. We heard from viewers and listeners who have questions for bestselling author Michael Pollan, who's with us today, who wrote one of the definitive books on this topic. Let's meet Dave and his daughter, Reagan.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
They are Zooming in from Utah. Dave, you say psychedelics help you unlock childhood trauma and even is giving you a greater sense of purpose. Tell us, how is that so? That is so interesting.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So can I ask you this? Can I ask you this? Because I don't know anybody who or maybe I do know somebody who's done it, but I've never asked this question. Are you you're able to ask questions and people can ask you questions while you're doing it. You're conscious enough to be able to do that.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You can hear what other people are saying. So I always thought it was like you're off into your own world and you're having your trip and then you're not a part of whatever this world is.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
That the setting and the... So important. Setting is so important.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Reagan, you're nodding. Did you have a similar experience? I heard you tried just for fun and then it turned out to be more than that.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
But now I've noticed, and I think... You are the reason for part of this shift. I've seen, first of all, more articles about it, more stories about it, more people who have engaged with the experience of psychedelics. And I think something is happening in the culture. Would you agree?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
What was the substance? Was it? It was mushrooms.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Any questions you have for Michael? Here's your chance. Absolutely.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
That's a light bulb moment right there.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
It's the same thing.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
All stemming from the same thing.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Dave, did you have a question?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And I think the word spiritual always hangs people up too. I mean, I got so much criticism back in the 80s and 90s and early aughts by just using the word spirit on broadcast television. I think the word consciousness is a better word. I think consciousness, the altering- Sounds more scientific. Yeah, sounds more scientific. And that is actually what is happening in the spiritual experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And, you know, in one way- Would you say you were part of that change though? Because when you wrote this book, you know- Yeah, it was pretty fringe.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You're elevating, enhancing, opening your consciousness to experience life and yourself differently. That's what I think.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
That's why I don't think we're here yet. We're certainly not here yet. Because like everything, once people start using it, it's just like the, you know, anti-obesity drugs. Then people create their own, you know, pharmacies for making the anti-obesity drugs. And people are doing it, you know, on the side. And it's not... you know, authorized and stuff.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And I think it's dangerous for people to have these kind of explorations without a guide.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You need somebody who knows what they're doing to help you.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Especially if you're a person who has demons. Yeah. And you're taking it because you know you have demons.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
That is my favorite phrase on earth. I want to cry right now because anytime there is a challenge in my life, that is the first question that I ask. What are you here to teach me? What is this for? Or if I'm in the middle of a bad dream, I'll say, okay, what are you here to teach me?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah. It's not even just curiosity. It's like, I want to know what it is so I can get out of it.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Well, thank you all. You all sharing here today has really been informative for all of us. Thank you so much. Yeah, wonderful to meet you. Wonderful to meet you, Dave and Reagan. Thank you. Good luck. So you hear a lot about microdosing. If the Oprah show was still on, we'd be doing shows, I think, on microdosing moms and parents. There are a lot of them.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Microdosing moms and parents in the suburbs having shroom parties. What is your take on that? What is that, microdosing?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
How to Change Your Mind is such a perfect title, too.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I love that. It's what it's about. What the new science of psychedelics teaches us about consciousness, dying, addiction, depression, and transcendence. I thought, well, if it does all that, I'm gonna read this book.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Natalie's joining us from California. Natalie, I hear you turn to psychedelics to cope with grief. How did that go for you? How did that work out for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Oh, thank you for that, Natalie. Thank you. Thank you. So I hear you. What's your question?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I think one of the things that Michael emphasizes in the book is that the ego and who you believe yourself to be are not identical. They're not. And that separation, that is the biggest thing that happens with most people, I think.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And so your question was about what is the advice for going deeper in the journey? Is that the question?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah, thank you, Natalie. Thank you. And thanks to your kids who squealed when they heard you talking to Michael. I have not heard that before. Give them my best. Thank you. One of my favorite questions to ask on this podcast is coming up. We're going to talk to Michael Pollan about what it means for him to live a well-lived life. He always makes you see things in a new way.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You'll want to hear his answer next.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Was this Roland Griffith's article? Yes, Roland Griffith, who I interviewed in his last dying days.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Thank you for listening to us today to The Oprah Podcast. Welcome back to our conversation on psychedelics with Michael Pollan. In the book, you write that you had, you quote, you say, some kind of spiritual experience. Do you think that there... Obviously, I'm just asking the question, but I already know the answer.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
There is a difference between a religious spiritual experience and one induced by a drug's chemical impact on the brain. And that's the first question. And does the spiritual experience depend upon what your religious belief is or is not?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I was going to say, how could you be that when you're so connected to plants?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
mental trauma, or even help people reach a transcendent, transformational spiritual experience. Joining me, the man who's an expert on all of this, Michael Pollan. Great to see you again, Michael. Great to see you too, Oprah. Once again, Michael Pollan is at the forefront of a revelatory national conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So darn true.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And I think we have to explain what ego is because until 2008, I always thought that ego was, you know, you were being arrogant or you were, you know, overly self-assured. Now I know it's that voice in the head that is constantly going, we all have it.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
It's constantly, it's a, you know, a gajillion thoughts a day judging and it's measuring and it's, yeah, it's that part of you that is separate from the real you. And it's important to us.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Do you think it's possible that we can reach these same levels of revelations and consciousness and understandings about our connection to the universe, to ourselves and to each other without psychedelics? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And he was so calm about the experience of dying, yes. And so you read Roland Griffith's article.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And if you've got anxiety, you can't even sit still long enough to do it.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You know, I'm really grateful to be able to talk to you today because, first of all, you're so smart. And you've written so many books about what our society is collectively about.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
wrestling with and I'm wondering actually I was at a seminar this summer and the head of Stanford was talking about a class that they were going to start there and the class was going to be called what does it mean to have a well lived life and I thought wow I would love to teach that class I'd love to teach that class and be a part of that class and so I love that as a question what do you when you
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
With all the things that you now know as you sit here about to enter a new decade, come on in, the water's fine. It's going to be all right. What to you defines a well-lived life?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And for some people, it seems to be the tool that helps you open the door.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You see your parents as the trees. Yeah. Listen, you wrote that so vividly. I see your parents as the trees, okay? Well, thank you. Michael's book, How to Change Your Mind, as well as all of his other thought-provoking books are available wherever you buy your books. So thank you to all of our guests for Zooming in here with us with your own fascinating experiences on psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
The fact that Bob lived for 49 years. And I love that line, Bob, when you said, and I finally came home. I finally came home. I thank you all for listening. And it's my hope that these conversations help to inform and enhance your life in some way. You know, I've always tried to go through life with a curious open mind. So I thank you all for taking the time to spend your time with us here today.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
He's a renowned researcher of psychedelics at Johns Hopkins.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And be sure if you can to subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube. That is, if you don't want to miss an episode. And follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Go well. Bye for now. How to change your mind. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
because he wrote this paper on the mystical and spiritual experience of it all, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So some people are drawn, we know, to psychedelics because they are suffering from mental illness or mental trauma, not mental illness, mental trauma. Because I think if you're suffering from mental illness, a lot of people shouldn't take it if you are.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So some are spiritual seekers, Some are suffering from mental traumas and others are just looking for this experience or seem to be doing it for fun.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
But in every single instance, isn't it about changing consciousness?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So if you're using it for therapy, as a lot of people now are.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
It's a guided experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So were you reluctant to take, I mean, you were, you know, pretty straight, straightforward guy. I was terrified. Were you reluctant to take them yourself?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I would be afraid of having a psychotic break. Yeah. I would be afraid of losing my mind. I was. And not getting it back.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You were. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Okay, so tell us about the time you tell about experiencing your parents in the trees.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I said, oh, Michael is really tripping. But the realization that you had seemed pretty solid. And I am, Michael, I mean, it made me so curious because I'm surrounded by trees. I love trees. I think I have some, something is going on with me and trees. I don't know what it is. So your experience, tell everybody what that was.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
What does it even look like?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
But the thing about psychedelics- Do you feel it or experience it in a way that you didn't know before?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Psychedelics, once demonized as a dangerous counterculture threat, are being reexamined as a possible tool for treatment for anxiety, depression, addiction, PTSD, and for spiritual transcendence.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And does that conviction stay with you after the experience?
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
It feels like a knowing. Exactly.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah. Tell us about the... When I'm specifically asking about the parents, the father was the tree and the mother was the tree and they're both... Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I come in the gate and I say hello to all the trees. I go, I'm back, tell everybody I'm home.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
I was so struck by that because I think I'm not conscious enough to know, but I know that there is a oneness. There's a connection with all of nature. I just don't know what it is yet. So the plants aren't speaking to me, but I know that there is life there. I know that there is something going on that is deeper than what we can see.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
And it's what most people think they are.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
You're the space between the voice and the thoughts. And when you can separate that, which I can do in meditation and there's an awareness of- It's very similar in meditation.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
But it sounds like psychedelics is a higher level of the deepest of the meditations.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Michael's best known for his blockbuster books about food, like The Omnivore's Dilemma and Cooked. But his groundbreaking 2018 work, How to Change Your Mind, created an opening for a new way to think about psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Yeah. Eckhart Tolle talks about that in A New Earth a lot. I'm with bestselling author Michael Pollan, and we're about to hear from all kinds of people who are using psychedelics to heal from mental trauma, including a war veteran who suffered for decades from PTSD.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I am here with bestselling author Michael Pollan, who is at the forefront of research and reporting on the benefits and concerns people have about taking psychedelics. A reminder, this conversation is not intended in any way to be medical advice. You will want to and must talk to your own health care provider if you're interested in taking psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Can Psychedelics Heal Mental Trauma? With Harvard Professor Michael Pollan
So, you know, a lot of the new research, y'all, on psychedelics started with treating veterans who were suffering from chronic PTSD. This is where the real breakthroughs are, I think. And for decades, it seemed that no treatment worked. And then there were a lot of practitioners who started seeing real relief for patients using psychedelics.