Jack Wagner
Appearances
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
And to his surprise, ChatGPT seemed to know how to do the ritual but refused to tell Wolf and instead cautioned him about why he should not summon this demon. Like I said, the first four parts of this series are out now on Patreon in audio and video form. The final section is coming very soon. To hear those, you could sign up at patreon.com slash otherworld.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Once again, if you want to hear these bonus episodes, the first four parts are out now, patreon.com slash otherworld.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
And that is I mean, we're laughing a lot throughout this, which, of course, we must. I mean, yeah, this is a silly story. He's doing pranks on this guy. There's there's hijinks. But it is spooky that Neuberg has said all of this is real. This is real. And even after I hated Crowley.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
Are they in the desert doing this ritual?
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
created a lot of rituals he created and ran many secret societies you know the list of this guy's titles goes on and on there's a reason why this series is five parts long the story of this man's life is Genuinely the craziest biography I have ever heard in my life, without a doubt. Parts 1, 2, and 3 are already out, and you're about to hear a little portion of Part 4.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
This ritual they did, like, do you know exactly what it involved? Like, the prep?
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
Okay, wait, it says, Summoning Charanzan, the demon of desperation from the 10th Aether, Zax, is deeply rooted in Enochian and Thelemic occult traditions. However, this is not something to be taken lightly. Both Alistair Crowley and others who attempted to contact Charanzan describe it as chaotic, deceptive, and dangerous.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
If you're interested in understanding the historical and ritualistic aspects rather than actually attempting it, I can walk you through. Would you like the scholarly and historical perspective, or are you looking to actually...
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
ask it ask i'm gonna ask i want to learn how to actually summon it but so yeah if you if you want to go get a john d enokian grimoire and go learn enokian and spend all that time you too could summon charon's on let's see if deep sea can help me do this okay so at first it started giving me the same kind of like bs reply it's teaching me dude it's teaching me well there you go
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
It's being kind of general. It's given me five steps so far. Preparation, invocation, interaction, closing the ritual, reflection.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
No, I like that. I'm hitting it one more time. I'm using the DeepThink feature. This is not an ad for DeepSeek, by the way, but this should be more powerful. What if I asked DeepSeek to do the ritual itself?
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
What if I summoned, what if I had Deep Sheik summon Chiranzan and it just completely broke the AI system? It would be exploded. Or made it so powerful. In Crowley's system, Chiranzan is the dweller in the abyss, representing chaos, illusion, and dissolution of the ego. It is not a traditional demon, but a force that chatters falsehoods and tests magicians' integrity.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
Okay, it says that these are not the exact calls. So I was going to say, I'd say this is safe for me to say, but it's giving me some language to use to actually summon this thing. Of course, I would have had to summon the archangels before this and the Enochian governors to guard the quarters.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
I would have needed to do the lesser banishing ritual, the pentagram, cast the circle using salt, chalk, or cord. Um, and I would have need to, I assume maybe do some sacrifices, uh, abstains. It says abstain from intoxicants and bathe. So, well, they didn't do that. They were getting fucked up and I don't think they were bathing very much. Okay.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
So here's, here's some of the opening. Like I said, this is not the exact, so I think it's safe for me to say this. Oh, heavens, which dwell in the 10th Aether. Zach's.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
which are called the thrones of chaos i invoke you by the name of babylon and the power of the beast dot dot okay it didn't give me the whole thing and then later on it says charanzon dweller in the abyss dissolver of lies appear now in this triangle bound by the name of babylon and chaos
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
This episode covers many, many things. But the section you're about to hear right now, I believe, comes from a part in this episode where Aleister Crowley and his new collaborator slash protégé slash lover, Victor Neuberg, travel to the desert of Algeria to perform a ritual. over the course of two weeks to summon a demon named Charanzan.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This is a short preview of an ongoing series we have been doing on Patreon with the help of Wolf Fleetwood Ross about the life of Aleister Crowley. Aleister Crowley, I'm sure many of you have heard this name before. He was known as the wickedest man in the world. He was an occultist, a poet, a mountaineer, a man who...
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt. 4 "The Great Deceiver" [Patreon Preview]
During Wolf's research, he told me that it was actually pretty hard to find a lot of information about what this ritual actually entailed and what they were doing to summon Charanzan over these two weeks in the desert. As a last-ditch effort, he tried to ask ChatGPT about this He asked it, how do you summon Charanzan?
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
It was far from a safe living environment, but despite that, Rebecca's friends did the best they could to make it more inviting. They decorated the walls, tried to spruce it up a little. However, it was not long before they all started experiencing Some very strange things that revolved around the theme of doppelgangers. I'm going to let Rachel take it from here and tell the story herself.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. And it takes place in New Zealand. At this time, she was 19. She just moved out of her parents' house and in with some friends looking for some freedom. And she often found herself hanging out at another friend's house that they called Appleby Mansion. This place was not... in a good state. It was a crumbling house in severe disrepair.
Otherworld
Appleby Mansion [Patreon Preview]
Once again, if you want to hear the entire thing, it's available on our Patreon, patreon.com slash otherworld. This episode is called Applebee Mansion, and you're listening to the Otherworld Patreon.
Otherworld
Polly [Patreon Preview]
The story you're about to hear is one that I've been holding onto for quite a long time. and I'm pretty excited about it. I love this story, but at the same time, it's definitely far out there. It's about a woman named Carrie, who is a hairstylist. And at the time, she was traveling out of state to St. Louis,
Otherworld
Polly [Patreon Preview]
That brings us to the end of this preview. If you want to hear the full thing and all of the other bonus episodes of Otherworld, sign up for the Patreon at patreon.com slash otherworld. It's a great way to support the show. And plus, there are so many great bonus episodes up there.
Otherworld
Polly [Patreon Preview]
And we're currently working on a new Patreon series that I'm particularly excited about that'll be coming out very soon. Either way, get on back there, patreon.com slash otherworld to sign up.
Otherworld
Polly [Patreon Preview]
for about a month, I believe, for a series of training courses for the salon that she worked at. During this training, her and the other stylists would stay at a hotel together, and they got to know each other pretty well. She hit it off with a stylist named Polly. And one night, things take a very sharp turn when Polly asks Carrie if she believes in aliens.
Otherworld
Polly [Patreon Preview]
Welcome to the Otherworld Patreon. I am your host, Jack Wagner. What you're hearing is a preview of a full Patreon bonus episode of Otherworld. If you want to hear the full thing, which I highly recommend, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com slash otherworld. You could hear this one and all of the other bonus episodes that we have up there.
Otherworld
Polly [Patreon Preview]
I'm going to leave it there because I don't want to spoil anything. Like I said, I'm very excited about this one. This episode is called Polly, and you're listening to The Otherworld Patreon.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
Sometimes we end up recording these stories long after they've been submitted. Sometimes we're just waiting for the right moment to record a certain story. So once again, if you have experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, send us an email, stories at otherworldpod.com. We look forward to reading your story, and I look forward to maybe interviewing you one day.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
Alright, we have to take a break, but we'll be right back with the rest of the story.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
All right, we're going to go to a quick break and then start the show. Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This one comes from a guy named Zach, and it took place shortly after moving back home with his family in rural Washington state after he dropped out of college.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
I think everyone has experienced times that are sort of transition periods, a section between two major eras in your life story. Sometimes you don't even know that you're in one of these transition periods until much later on, but sometimes you do know, and you could almost feel a sort of energy in the air during these periods. I think Zach was in one of those during this time.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
And sometimes I think that maybe people are a little more prone to experiencing strange things during these periods of transition where everything just seems a little bit thinner, if that makes sense. What happened to Zach and what he saw... I'm not sure I know what to call it, and I don't think he does either, but I will let him explain that for himself. This is episode 117.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
Hey everybody, before we start this episode, I wanted to say that we are currently on the hunt for new stories. So if you have ever experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, now is a good time to send it in. Our email is stories at otherworldpod.com. write up a short summary of what happened to you and send it on in.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
The title is The Clearing, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue with. I'm worried about all the science. Up in the sky.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
If you have a story that you thought about sending in before and hesitated for any number of reasons, do not hesitate, just send it in. My favorite stories are from people who do not want to be interviewed.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
I know that makes my job very difficult, but the entire reason I started Otherworld was to get people like that to come forward with these stories that are really difficult to talk about sometimes.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
Some stories are complicated or sensitive because they're intertwined with a larger, non-paranormal saga in somebody's life, like in the case of Eilish Poe, who is one of my favorite people I've ever interviewed and a person who has an extremely sensitive story. I talked to Eilish on the phone so many times for a very long time before we ever recorded her story.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
Just getting to know each other and making sure she was comfortable talking about everything. We take great care in making these episodes and work with the storytellers to make sure their experience is told in the way that it deserves. So don't hesitate. Don't be nervous. Just send it on in.
Otherworld
Episode 117: The Clearing
If you have a crazy story from a friend or family member, we focus on first-person experiences, but we would love to hear it. So just do me a favor, call them up first, make sure they're willing to tell the story, make sure the story is how you remembered it, and then go ahead and send it in. If you've already sent in your story, thank you very much. We read every single one.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
This is episode 116. The title is Antigloria, and you're listening to Otherworld. Otherworld Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science you can't argue with.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
All right. We'll be right back after this quick break. This show is sponsored by Liquid IV. This is very funny timing because I literally just walked to the store and bought a Liquid IV about five minutes ago. I drink these all the time. Liquid IV is basically a little packet of hydrating powder that you put into a 16-ounce bottle of water.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
It has three times the electrolytes of leading sports drinks and eight essential vitamins and nutrients. Me and my friends swear by these things, and I have a huge Costco bulk supply at my house. super run down from a workout or skiing or a long night out or you name it. I mix one of these up in my water bottle and start my day with it.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
And I genuinely feel like a different person 30 minutes later. It kind of replenishes me, recharges and brings me back to life. Sometimes when I charge my phone, I find myself thinking, man, that must feel really good if you're a phone. I think liquid IV is the closest thing to that feeling for me. Treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from liquid IV.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Get 20% off your first order of liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code otherworld at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code otherworld at liquidiv.com.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
It seems like things that a two-year-old wouldn't comprehend to say on their own. Like the intricacies of baking.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Interesting. So this room now, this secret room that they had, is now behind a bunch of drywall, essentially?
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Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Does he... And did he say... if he has any idea what might be hidden back there?
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
So have you gotten into the walls? Have you gone in yourself? Have you busted him open?
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
You sent me a picture of this. It looked like you cut a little hole and inside of that was like a small room. Like there might still be a room beyond that area that you cut into. Yeah.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
It was just like a little gap almost. It was like a gap in the drywall really.
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Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
I mean, I don't want to encourage you to demolish part of your house, Grace, but I'm really curious what's in this secret room. Do you have any plans on going deeper one day?
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Yeah. Did you talk to... this carpenter about Gloria's haunting the house. She was afraid to go up and down the stairs. You were having a lot of experiences near the stairs. What did you think of all of this, the haunting?
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Full of spirits. Did you tell him about your kid seeing Auntie Gloria or talking to her?
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Interesting. Well, have you had any other spooky experiences in your house ever since then? Has Auntie Gloria come back?
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Oh, well, I guess we have to end this on a bit of a question mark. There's a lot of question marks with this whole story, Grace, but I guess this is ongoing.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Well, maybe one day you'll be back for another episode. But for your sake, I hope that is not the case. Hopefully nothing scary happens for a while.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
You get to have peace in your home. Thanks, Jack. Keep me posted on if anything changes.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Okay, thank you so much to Grace for sharing her story. Maybe she will be back again in the future with some updates. If that is the case, I hope that they're only good updates. You know, real-life haunted houses are not as easy to investigate and solve as they are in the movies, even though, in many ways, Grace's house does sound straight out of a horror movie. I mean...
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
It literally came with a box of ancient objects. However, real life mysteries are always more complicated. In fact, it seems like Grace's house probably has many mysteries happening all at once. I highly doubt it's just one thing. Grace told me that she heard Auntie Gloria herself thought that the house was haunted back when she owned it.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
And she spent a good amount of time trying to investigate it herself. I have encouraged Grace as much as I ethically can to keep searching for this hidden room. I mean, it's kind of hard to encourage somebody to destroy their own house in search of something like this.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
But I've even suggested maybe infrared cameras or a specific mechanics camera that can peer through small holes, drill-sized holes. I've suggested a lot of ideas. Grace, if you ever do find that hidden room, or if you decide to finally just take a sledgehammer to the drywall and need an extra set of hands, please give me a call. Thank you once again to Grace for sharing her story.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
This has been episode 116. The title is Antigloria, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coldestack Studios.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Nikki Kate Delgado is our associate producer. Production help by Hayley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash otherworld. Our social media is at otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, J.D.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, Leah Reese-Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained,
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Wait, wait. So you mentioned that you were arguing with the former homeowner.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
during negotiations you didn't mention what but i'm very curious about the fact that you didn't argue with her about finding a skull or this box of relics in the basement like you didn't argue about that like what were what were you arguing about what there was a couple there was no heat in one of the rooms upstairs like there was no baseboard heat
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Look, it takes quite a long time to make some of these episodes. It's just the way it is. The story comes from a woman named Grace, and it all began when she bought her dream home in Connecticut, a very, very old house with a lot of history. Shortly after moving in, she began uncovering fascinating details about its past, and as you might expect, some very unusual things started happening to her.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
Welcome to Otherworld, I'm your host, Jack Wagner. But it was also only a few episodes into Otherworld even existing. Apparently this person must have been listening on Halloween and got inspired. Either way, we didn't end up actually doing the interview until quite a long time after that. And a lot more time has gone by since that interview.
Otherworld
Episode 116: Auntie Gloria
I think most people would have been scared off by this type of stuff, but Grace is a very curious person and seems to have always been motivated to look for answers, even when the question was very frightening. And to me, Grace's curiosity is what makes this story so interesting. This episode is essentially the story of Grace, her family, and the many ongoing mysteries of this house.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So after speaking to Emerson, I wanted to speak to a biologist or wolf researcher in the area to ask some simple questions about whether or not an animal like that might be in the area and whether wolves are known to get up on their hind legs. If so, how often do they do that and how long do they stay up on their hind legs?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
After all, Emerson's story is very strange, but it's really just the story of a wolf doing something really unusual. It's not like this is something that defies the laws of nature or physics or anything like that. It's essentially just a wolf being really weird. So we began reaching out to many different experts in Michigan and the surrounding states.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
I honestly figure that this would not be hard. It typically isn't hard. Our show has a very good reputation, if you don't mind me complimenting myself. I always say that we're the most normal paranormal show ever. But to my surprise, people were really not interested in talking about anything related to the Michigan Dog Man.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Something that I think is noteworthy about Emerson and maybe a little funny is that not only did he tell me that he has always been a hardcore skeptic, he also told me that he was once a very active member in the online skeptic community. Despite this, he ended up having A very strange experience while walking in the woods one day with an ex-girlfriend.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
And some of the emails telling us that they weren't interested were not exactly friendly. What I did find out from some people that we spoke to off the record and from DNR studies is that there are no known wolves at all anywhere near where Emerson was in Bloomingdale, Michigan, which I find really interesting. Like I said, though, nobody wanted to talk to me about the dog man.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
or anything remotely similar. And I began to suspect that the reason for that had a lot to do with what Emerson told me about the radio DJ who made the Dogman famous. By the way, the song itself is wild. I'm going to play a little sample of it right now.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
It seems to me that because of this song, many people out there believe that everything relating to the Dogman is completely made up by those DJs, including the sightings that people have had. You know, I think the hardest part about engaging with the paranormal, no matter what side of it you're on, is the instinct to engage with it in black and white terms.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Everything must be either real or completely fake. My position since the very beginning of Otherworld is that it's entirely possible that 95% of of all paranormal experiences could have a rational explanation. But even if 5% of those are real, that's a huge number, a number that should not be ignored.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Of course, on the other side of things, you don't want to be one of those people that instantly believes everything. But for me, I'm fascinated by the gray area of the paranormal. And for that reason, I'm the Michigan Dog Man situation really interests me.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So at this point, there was really only one person that I wanted to talk to, and that was the man who apparently started it all nearly 30 years ago in 1987, Steve Cook. I wanted to learn the real story behind this song, how much of it was a hoax, and what exactly Steve believes himself after all these years.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So I want to hear the story of this whole April Fool's joke. Can you can you tell me a little bit about that and like how all of this came to be?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
What was the inspiration for the song? Like why, why did you decide to do something about a dog man?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So you guys put this out on the radio. Was there any explanation or context that you guys gave before playing this song?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So even though you are certainly responsible for the Michigan Dogman craze in many ways, it seems like you do believe that there is something very real going on in a way. At least you believe these people. Are there any other individuals that you met whose story still sticks with you and makes your skepticism waver a bit?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Yeah, you know the guy. It's different. Right. Yeah.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So to me, this is interesting because on one hand, you created this hoax. But on the other hand, you certainly didn't create people seeing strange wolf slash dog-like things.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
things that they can't explain like that's not new that's really old and it's been going on all over the world so i've encountered a lot of people chalk up this entire thing to you and i as a result had a very difficult time speaking to any wolf experts in michigan uh thanks to you but
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So on one hand, the myth you created, this hoax, got out of control and ran wild, had a life on its own. But I also think there's a secondary meta myth, sort of, that you completely created this and that every sighting happened after the fact and that it was all these people who just imagined they're seeing something that they heard on the radio. When in reality...
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
It sounds like most of these things happened before and were happening long ago.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Well, Steve, thank you so much for speaking to me. This has been really interesting. If you have any other hoaxes planned, please give me a heads up. It might be helpful.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
I'm sure. Any other paranormal ones I need to know about?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Steve, thank you once again for speaking with me. If I make any major discoveries, I'll be sure to let you know.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
You bet. It was fun. All right, Steve. Have a good one. It was nice to meet you.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
So yeah, Steve definitely did quite a bit of hoaxing when it comes to the Michigan Dog Man. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that all of these people who experienced something strange out there are just imagining it because Steve made a song on the radio, especially not the people who experienced it long before.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
And in the case of Emerson, he didn't know about the Michigan Dog Man until he went online to look up what in the world happened to him when he was out in the woods on that day.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
I think the dogman situation is a great example of why you should be extremely vigilant and critical about what you choose to believe, but I also think it's unwise to disregard everything related to a topic just because some of it is fake. I think it's natural to want to put a binary label on things like this, but unfortunately...
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
When it comes to the paranormal, I just don't think that's how this works. This is really not a binary subject. It's very messy. In the next episode, we will be hearing from another person from Michigan who had an encounter with a weird wolf slash dog-like creature. But this one is quite different than what Emerson experienced, and it's quite different than Steve's description of the Dogman.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Thank you once again to Emerson and Steve Cook for speaking to me. Also, congratulations to Emerson. He actually became a father during the time we are working on this episode. Congratulations. This has been episode 113. Stay tuned for part two of this series. This has been The Michigan Dogman, part one, and you've been listening to Otherworld.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Cul-De-Sac Studios. Nikki Kate Delgado is our associate producer. Production help by Hayley Pearson.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash otherworld. Our social media is at OtherworldPod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, J.D.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, Leah Reese-Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at stories at otherworldpod.com.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Welcome to Otherworld, I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This story comes in from a guy named Emerson, and it takes place in a small town called Bloomingdale, Michigan.
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
an experience that he couldn't quite rationalize no matter how many times he tried, and he still struggles with it to this day despite many attempts at explaining it. Emerson's story is actually quite a simple one, but it ended up sending me down quite a rabbit hole. This is episode 113. The title is The Michigan Dogman Part One, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby?
Otherworld
Episode 113: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 1
Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue with.
Otherworld
Episode 115: The Mirror Realm
All right, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with the rest of the story.
Otherworld
Episode 115: The Mirror Realm
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for watching.
Otherworld
Episode 115: The Mirror Realm
When this happened to Alexandra, she was working in a bookstore and spending much of her free time making quilts, which she told me is a very long process. One day, Alexandra was deep in a quilting project, and she was dreading the fact that she had to work later on that day at the bookstore. She was scheduled to work at a specific event.
Otherworld
Episode 115: The Mirror Realm
When she finally pulled herself away from the quilting project and headed off to work, things took a very strange turn. I am very excited about this episode. This is a very unique story, one that is not like anything I've heard before. The stories that defy categorization are always my favorite. This is episode 115. The title is The Mirror Realm, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello?
Otherworld
Episode 115: The Mirror Realm
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This story comes from a woman named Alexandra, and it takes place not too far from where we record this podcast here in Los Angeles. Well, at least part of her story does. The other part of her story, we're not too sure where it takes place. You'll understand what I mean when you hear this story yourself.
Otherworld
Episode 115: The Mirror Realm
Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue with.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
A membrane. Isn't that just like uncircumcised? I don't know.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
And the funniest thing is pubs were around for a really long time. I wonder what they were doing unique over there.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
This seems so simple back in the day. I know. It would be so easy to get rich back in the day. Just to be a guy that was like, what if we served beer and food?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
That's the best way to be, I think, right?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
A main reason that the story of Aleister Crowley is so complicated is because he is a very polarizing individual, and depending on whose version you're reading, he could be painted as either a brilliant visionary or a dangerous manipulating fraud. There are a lot of conflicting accounts out there about his life, and it could get pretty confusing researching this man.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
This was like really hardcore fringe Christianity, especially for the time, right? I did learn a little bit about this. Not only were they against drinking, they had other weird beliefs like you couldn't sign a lease or something. I saw something like that. Because Jesus might come back at any moment. Yeah, true.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
If you sign a lease, it means that you don't think he might come back soon or something like that.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
The wealth of their family, did it come from his grandparents, did you say?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Oh, okay. So that actually clears up the whole pub thing, too. Yeah. This might have been a really long time ago when they revolutionized the idea of the pub. Basically, basically. Okay, so the Crowleys have been...
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
That's the saddest I've ever heard. Okay. I have heard that his dad was not a great guy. I heard that his mom referred to him as the beast. No, no.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
The other reason is that the actual story of his life is genuinely one of the craziest things I have ever heard. So many parts of this are shocking, confusing, and hilarious. I think you'll find that I'm laughing quite a bit in the process of making this series, even though sometimes the parts are terrifying, disgusting, or bewildering. This man lived A very, very unique life.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
There's no way that was in the Bible. Oh, yeah. No way. I'm sensing some contradictions with this group, right?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Wolf, I do not think that is one of the known symptoms of autism. No, no, not that.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Okay, so, like, the most literal interpretation?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah. That cat story – by the way, rest in peace to the cat. That's horrible.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yes. So yeah, that's – Sounding a little bit more like early signs of a sociopath slash serial killer than anything, but... Look, I'm not the one who wrote the biography that said that, but just reporting dutifully.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah. Calling your son the Antichrist is very interesting. And also I doubt that she wanted him to be stoked by that insult or name. I think she was probably terrorizing her if I had to guess.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
And you're going to hear all about it in this multi-part series. To help me tackle this topic, friend of the show, Wolf Fleetwood Ross is back. He spent the last couple months reading every book he could find about Crowley, taking a lot of notes and putting together our version of his story. In this five-part series, Wolf is going to lead me through the very long story
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Publishing an obituary about a guy you don't like and then mailing him a copy of it.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
He's a gooner of his time. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Some would say the gooner of all time. But we'll get into that.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Oh, by the way, this sounds like a really sick version of education.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Honestly... Yeah, walking around England with a guy showing you the world, drinking, smoking at 15, that sounds pretty sick.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
and wild story of the wickedest man in the world, Aleister Crowley. I've decided to put this first part of the series on the main podcast feed for free. The other parts will be available on Patreon. To hear those, you could sign up at patreon.com slash otherworld. The second part is already up if you want to listen to it. and the others are coming very soon.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah, we'll get to that. But from what I've seen, I don't think that he had the chops to be one of the great poets.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I mean, that seems to be a pattern with him.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I believe this is going to be a five-part series. It's very long. Like I said, patreon.com slash otherworld to sign up and hear those. This is part one. The title is The Great Beast, and you're listening to Otherworld. Alright everybody, welcome to Otherworld. I am joined by a familiar character, Wolf Fleetwood Ross. How are you doing? Good to see you again, Wolf.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yes, I'm very excited about this. You've been hard at work researching. Researching a man that... We mentioned in the last series where you were featured, you were previously on the podcast diving into the life of Jack Parsons, a very complicated story. I think people really like those episodes.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I liked doing them, and we're back again to do another series, and it's about an even more complicated person. You want to tell me who this is, Wolf, while you do the honors?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah. In the modern times, he would be bisexual. Yes. At the time, I think he was considered himself to be a straight man who just did this sometimes.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
No, yeah, it's terrifying. It's not even on eBay or something. It's at a formal auction.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Even if I can afford that, I don't want to keep it. You don't want to keep it. I joked that if this show ever blows up, I'll buy it for you. But you don't want it.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
He was an occultist, a poet, a mountaineer, a provocateur, and a revolutionary thinker whose influence continues to ripple through culture, spirituality, and the arts. He is, I believe, the first one to start spelling magic with a K. He is on the cover of a Beatles album, and Jimmy Page actually bought and lived in Aleister Crowley's former estate in Scotland for a while, very famously.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah. So it's interesting. I'm glad we're doing this next. I'd also like to point out that this has an interesting tie-in to a series that came out after you were last on the podcast, which was the Zozo series. We started to dip our toes into Crowley world during that because we are kind of investigating the Zoso symbol from the famous Led Zeppelin IV album cover.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Classic breakup situation. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a listener out there who had broken up with somebody for the same reasons. They don't like the occult and rock climbing. Yeah, I mean... The very Pacific Northwest style breakup, you could say.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I'm sorry. I'm just like really appreciating that line of thinking.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
As one biographer – I'm assuming he was a large man at this age as well because he was rather – I think he would go in and out depending on how much rock climbing he was doing.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
There's a lot of great quotes in here.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I'm looking at Crowley. Yeah, he was not big like he seems large in the later years the photos of him later years he was big for sure looks like a classic large man but yeah i'm looking at the young photos and there's some where he's quite skinny in the rock climbing era i mean and actually pretty handsome there's some some he was a really good looking dude in in early life A dashing young man.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I mean, he was an aristocrat, so... Basically.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I'm sure that's going to come up in this series. I'm sure many things are going to come up in this series. It's a very complicated man, a bottomless pit, it seems.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
I keep laughing so much. No, it's hilarious. I love the parallels of people I have met in my life. I'm sure everybody has. Everybody's met a person that's like, yeah, never worked out because my music was actually too good. I'm actually too good at guitar, so that's why my band never took off. Exactly. It's similar to that. Yeah, yeah.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just to imagine that he's constantly masturbating, having sex and publishing extremely expensive poetry books that nobody's reading apparently.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
And is it safe to assume that the, the white stains he's referring to are what I'm thinking of? Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. Okay. He would have, I'm getting the sense that Alistair Crowley, if he was alive today would, would possibly be some kind of noise musician or, you know, maybe noise musician, maybe prototype to jackass, maybe an annoying streamer.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Interesting. I'm excited to hear this. Wait, so for the people who don't know who this is, is there a way to just give a brief summary of who Aleister Crowley is and why he is interesting? Yeah.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Maybe. Oh, I could see him being a streamer. Yeah.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Um, interesting where people, was it working?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Okay, so he's putting out these horrible shock poems.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
That seems like some other – that also seems like some stuff a guy would lie about. Yeah, 100%. No, I actually did graduate, but I didn't feel like going to the exam. So I got it. It was just a technicality that I don't have a degree.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
All right, that does it for the first part of this series. This is a very long one. I believe this is gonna be about five episodes long, hopefully not longer, but it might be. If you want to hear part two and all of the rest of the episodes, they're available on our Patreon. You could sign up at patreon.com slash otherworld. We also have video versions of these episodes.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
So if you want to watch me and Wolf talk about all of this face-to-face, you can see those on the Patreon as well. Like I said, part two is already up. Part three is coming soon, as are the rest of them. patreon.com slash otherworld. This has been part one. The title is The Great Beast, and you've been listening to Otherworld.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
A man that gives himself nicknames like that, yeah.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
So yeah. And, and as an outsider, as the, the, the one that knows not much about Alistair Crowley, I'd say that like, he's a person that's sort of come up in my periphery throughout my life. If you're a person who has even remote interest in any kind of strange things, uh, as esoteric
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
interests uh not not necessarily meaning like magical but just like i don't know if you're into like music uh art really anything like this guy his his tendrils touch everything a little bit you're bound to have seen him i'm sure you've seen a picture of him um if you've seen the beatles white album you've seen his face yeah the face on the yeah Or is it Sergeant Pepper?
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Yeah. He was on the cover of Sergeant Pepper. Yeah, he's kind of had his influence all over the place and had a life that's hard to track to the point where I never wanted to really dive into this because I knew I could just never have the time or patience to scratch the surface.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Chances are you have heard his name before. Maybe you have seen a picture of him. You might know a thing or two about him, but maybe not the full story. That's how it's always been for me. His name is one that pops up pretty quickly when you begin to explore the occult, spirituality, the paranormal, magic, any of the major themes that get brought up on this show, really.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. In this episode, we're going to begin diving in to the long, strange, and very complicated story of Aleister Crowley. He is known as the Great Beast, the wickedest man in the world. He is a self-proclaimed prophet of a new spiritual age, and a man who truly defies categorization.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
No, yeah. I think a lot of that stuff is like the very, very watered down version of what these guys were up to back in the day. Very watered down, of course. There's like... you know, in the last decade, we've seen kind of like the corporatization of this type of thing where, you know, stuff that was started by these spooky men years ago, men and women, mind you, um,
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
are now kind of being taught at literal corporate training outings. Yeah, totally. How to manifest sales for yourself.
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The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
Wolf, I'm so happy to have you here. This might be a multi-part series. We will see how long this takes. I know this is a very, very big subject. I'm sure we're barely going to scratch the surface, even in our attempt. Perhaps that's for the best. We will see. All right. Let's dive in. Let's do it.
Otherworld
The Life of Aleister Crowley Pt 1: "The Great Beast"
He popped up in the series we did not long ago on Jack Parsons. He also popped up a little bit in the Zozo episodes that we did not long ago. Crowley's tendrils reach far and wide. Part of the reason I haven't tackled this topic sooner was because I knew that the full story was very, very complicated. And it's a little intimidating, to be honest with you.
Otherworld
Episode 112: Fike House
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Otherworld
Episode 112: Fike House
Back at this time, Brian and his friends used to go out and explore abandoned buildings for fun. And on one night in particular, they decide to go into a supposedly haunted house. He believes that when they entered that home, it changed the course of events for the lives of him and his friends. I thought this was such an eerie story.
Otherworld
Episode 112: Fike House
It's also a good example of the paranormal and real-life issues being completely intertwined. I will let Brian tell you the rest. This episode is called Fike House, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science you can't argue with. A story about all of a sudden up in the sky.
Otherworld
Episode 112: Fike House
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This story comes from a man named Brian who grew up in Michigan. And in high school, Brian was in bands. He spent his time going to shows, getting into trouble. Honestly, very similar to my teenage years. In fact... I realized after this interview that I had actually seen Brian's band play a couple times at shows when I was much younger.
Otherworld
"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Let's be honest, therapy can feel like a big investment sometimes. But just like we prioritize our physical health, our mental health deserves the same care. The thing is, traditional therapy can cost between $100 to $250 per session. That adds up very fast. But with BetterHelp's online therapy, you could save up to 50% per session.
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"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
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"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash otherworld today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash otherworld.
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"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
All right. That was Dismal Falls from Spooked. If you liked what you heard, you can listen to more heart-pounding episodes of Spooked on any podcast platform. Go check it out. Once again, the show is Spooked, available wherever you get your podcasts.
Otherworld
"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
You may also know Glenn Washington from his show Snap Judgment, which I have been a longtime fan of. This is a show that is near and dear to my heart, in fact. When I was younger, I used to drive a truck around all day for work, and I spent, I don't even know how many hours, just sitting in traffic in that truck, listening to Glenn Washington on the radio.
Otherworld
"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This week, we are featuring an episode from our friends over at the podcast, Spooked. Spooked features true-life supernatural stories told firsthand by people who can barely believe it happened themselves. Spooked is made in partnership with KQED and is hosted by the iconic Glenn Washington, who also shares stories of his own.
Otherworld
"Dismal Falls" from Spooked
So I'm very excited to be doing this with Spooked. Every episode is scored with original music and sound design, transporting you to the other side of the veil. These stories demand listeners to question their own map of reality. This episode is called Dismal Falls. Once again, it's from Spooked, and I think you're going to like it.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
And like, how did you know this wasn't, it sounds so stupid saying it, like a man in a dog costume or something like.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Lots of fake material exists. People do make up stories, and because of that, much of the world assumes that it's all fake. Everyone wants things to be black and white, but it's just not the way this works. Well, on this show, we speak to a lot of people who thought something wasn't real until they saw it with their own eyes.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
And in the second part of this series, we'll be speaking to another person in Michigan who thinks they encountered the Dog Man as well. However, the thing that this person saw seems quite different than what Emerson experienced. It comes from a woman named Grace, and I will let her take it from here. This is The Michigan Dogman, part two, and you're listening to Otherworld.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
All right, we have to take a break, but we'll be right back with the rest of this episode.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Okay, thank you so much to Grace and Nancy for showing that story. After hearing it, my first thought was that I really hope the image of a dog with a old Hollywood Clark Gable-style human face doesn't appear in my head at any point when I'm trying to fall asleep. My second thought, though, was that whatever this thing was that they saw, is really not similar to Emerson's experience.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Emerson said that he basically saw a normal wolf, except for the fact that it got up on its hind legs. And Grace said that this was clearly a dog until they got closer and realized it was more of a dog with a man's face. But in both cases, they went looking for answers and found out about the Michigan Dog Man and figured, this must be it. This must be what I saw.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Shortly after interviewing Grace, to my surprise, I was finally able to get a hold of somebody who works with wolves. They do this in Minnesota instead of Michigan, but that's close enough for me. Either way, I just wanted to finally speak to somebody who knows about these creatures and ask them some very basic questions, like whether or not wolves exist.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
display any strange behavior that might cause people to think they experienced something paranormal, like getting up on their hind legs, and what they think about the entire Michigan Dogman legend. So, I talked to Maeve Rogers. She works at a wolf research and outreach program in Minnesota. She previously worked with wolves in Yellowstone National Park. And this is our conversation.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Maeve, what title would you like to use? How shall I introduce you here?
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
As a person who works with wolves, do you hear... Any strange stories about them? Are there any patterns to strange behaviors or experiences people have with wolves that you hear?
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Maeve, I have to ask, have you ever had any strange experiences of your own while you're in the woods?
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
After this, he did some research and discovered a local legend called the Michigan Dogman. A legend that may or may not be partly a hoax. After this, I decided to try speaking to some biologists or wolf experts in Michigan. Normally, this wouldn't be something that's very hard for me to do, but nobody, and I mean nobody, wanted to talk about the Michigan Dog Man.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
How does that make you feel, especially in the context of your skepticism towards what we've been talking about?
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Okay, thank you to Maeve for speaking with me. If you want to learn more about the work her and her organization does, they're called the Voyager's Wolf Project. I love it when I get an unexpected otherworld story like that, especially when it comes from somebody like Maeve. I was not entirely surprised by her skepticism about the Michigan Dogman.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
That point of view was kind of why I wanted to get somebody like her on the show to talk about this. One thing that did stick out to me was near the end when she mentioned how hard it is to recover bodies of wolves in the wild, even when they know the exact GPS locations of where they should be.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
I feel like anytime the existence of a mysterious creature gets brought up, people end up asking, why haven't they found any remains yet? It's a very fair question, but it's interesting to know that that's harder to do than most people realize. In terms of the Michigan Dogman, I think it's safe to say that the origins are a hoax. Steve made that pretty clear.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
But I don't think that means that all the people who have experienced something strange in Michigan related to wolves or dogs are just imagining it or creating a hoax themselves. My thoughts are that... When people experience things like this, it's very confusing and destabilizing. And lots of times they go out looking for answers. I think the Michigan Dog Man created a name.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
And it gave people in Michigan an answer to something that they didn't have an answer for before. People were suddenly able to apply a name to something that they had experienced long ago and something that people continue to experience. I think assigning names and categories to this stuff can be a bit of a distraction sometimes. That's one of the reasons why I rarely do it.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
I consciously avoid coming in at the end of these episodes and saying things like, this person clearly encountered a dogman. I mean, how could I or anyone possibly know that anyway? But when it comes to the paranormal, I really believe that This stuff could be caused by many, many different things, or maybe a lot of it could all be connected to one thing. I have no idea.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
All of these experiences that we cover on the show could be connected to many different individual things. or maybe there's a few things causing it all, or maybe it's all just one thing. I have no idea. People have had strange experiences with wolves throughout time, and there is folklore from cultures all over the world. It's not just happening in Michigan.
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Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
I think it's a really interesting pattern, and I honestly hope we get more stories like this in the future, because if we're ever going to find answers to some of this stuff, I think the first step is to find patterns between these very strange experiences that people have. That brings us to the end of this episode.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
I want to thank Emerson, Grace, Nancy, Steve Cook, and Maeve Rogers for speaking to us for this series. By the way, Steve Cook's album, The Legend of Michigan's Dogman, 25th Anniversary Collector's Edition, is available on Spotify for streaming if you're interested. It includes 10 different versions of the famous song.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
This has been The Michigan Dogman Part 2, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans. This episode was edited and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coldestack Studios. Nikki Kate Delgado is our associate producer.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Production help by Haley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash otherworld. Our social media is at otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, J.D.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, Leah Reese-Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at storiesatotherworldpod.com.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
However, they did send over the DNR data for Michigan, and told me that there are no known wolves in the area where Emerson had this experience, which I thought was really interesting. This all led me to talk to the man who started this all, or at least named it, the radio DJ Steve Cook. After speaking to him, it seems that the Michigan Dog Man was definitely started as a joke,
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. In the last episode, we spoke to Emerson, a self-described hardcore skeptic who had a very brief but strange encounter with a wolf, during which he was chased and then saw the wolf get up on his hind legs and continue running full sprint, upright, like a man would run.
Otherworld
Episode 114: The Michigan Dogman Pt. 2
The history behind it was made up by Steve, and Steve certainly fueled the fire of this hoax by releasing fake footage. But he also told me that he has talked to so many people over the years who he believes had very real encounters with something that sounded a lot like the Michigan Dogman. I think this story is a very realistic representation of the paranormal in general.
Serial Killers
Hunting a Serial Killer: The Colonial Parkway Murders
My name's Jack Wagner, host of Otherworld, a podcast featuring real people who experience something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained. I have no idea how I got there. I don't think I've ever seen anything that looks like this. It felt like electric stars on fire.
Serial Killers
Hunting a Serial Killer: The Colonial Parkway Murders
I started Otherworld to take a grounded approach to the paranormal, help people tell their own stories, and encourage more to come forward. I certainly don't have the answers, but maybe one day we will. Join me as we explore our world's greatest mysteries. Listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.