Dax
Appearances
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Okay, so here's, I thought about this a lot. So anyway, to summarize very quick, I was very rude and very mean. And I hit in some very sensitive spots. Are you apologizing? No, I'm not apologizing. Of course I'm not. Come on. Okay. It's true. I did all of that. And then the clip went to the CEO. The CEO emailed Frank and Jay being like, you know, whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
uh no there's they're not sponsoring open next this is like not a thing that's happening yeah so it's nothing to do with lambda this issue is like over a year old also the person that wrote these docs didn't even know about this partner this like partnership happening until like a week ago and i was like Are you really the person to be like throwing out sponsorship accusations right now?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Like, I know you just kicked the oats to the curb. So now you can say you don't have sponsors, but like we all remember. And guess what? There's a really great video on YouTube about how frustrating it is when someone says, oh, but you're sponsored as a criticism made by the person that you were formerly sponsoring. Yeah. I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I honestly was thinking about messaging being like, can we just do a truce? Like I, at the end of the day, the only conflict here is that I don't really think this stuff is a big deal. And you think next JS and front end is like the biggest thing ever. I, I honestly just want to like, I have this one more announcement I need to do because a new company is going to join up next as well.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I'll just never talk about you guys again. I'm happy to do that because it's just going to a stupid place.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah. And alternate...
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
reaction by Vercel this would have been my reaction right if I'm Vercel I am the best place to deploy Next.js there's really no threat of that that's how I really felt I would have saw this and been like this is awesome these idiots are building adapters for us for free we can now say Next.js has no vendor lock-in look there's like yeah all this support for it and we don't have to do any work and we can like completely dodge that criticism awesome
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Why not?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And including me, I keep telling people, if you're going to use this next year, just use Vercel. Again, one of my personal opinions is that.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
To be fair, I am no better. What do you mean? You have dreams. Sometimes I have a dream about dream ways and I wake up with the emotions and I know they're stupid and don't make sense. But I'm like, the reality is I feel mad at you right now. And that's just because I feel like this thing happened to me. It's going to take me a couple of minutes for it to dissipate.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
yeah it's funny she she like it was funny i was on my phone again dealing with this stupid thing uh and i like look over and i see her open her eyes and she gives me like the nastiest look and she goes i'm mad at you and then she rolls over and she goes and so i was like because of a dream which is like yeah but i'm not ready to talk about it And then she goes back to sleep.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And then she wakes up again. And she's like, okay, I forgive you. And she wakes up again. And she's like, you did it again.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And I was like, I still don't know what I did.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
You've never had a negative dream, period? Or you've never had a negative dream?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
The typical, I'm going to talk to your boss situation. You got fired. I got fired.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I feel like you're all cats. It's hard for me to, I get what you're saying, but in my head, all dogs are boys and all cats are girls. Oh, interesting. Also, I have two cats that are literally girls and a dog that's a boy. So in my head, I'm just like, every single cat in the world is a girl and every single dog in the world is a boy. That's funny. It's hard for me to see past that. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
That's fair.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Oh, well, after, after that accusation that Cloudflare was sponsoring me, Sunil messaged me. I'll give you a dollar. If you tweet what I say, and he goes, PP poopoo. And I was like, all right, sold.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
This would be the first sponsorship deal that I ever get.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Uh-huh.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Oh, yes.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Just opened up a whole new world.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I don't use a Mac.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
You do too. I use my Mac to connect to my Linux machine, which does have Docker running all the time.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
There's no VM. Running all the time means nothing. It's like not doing anything.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And then I quickly messed that one up too. That's what happened. But here's how we perceive it, right? Let's say Apple does like a keynote. They're doing a new launch to do a keynote. We're all on Twitter online being like, oh, look at that guy. He's so stupid. That guy's a dork. This feature is so dumb. It's literally just that. And that's all I was doing. I was just doing that same thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah, I've heard.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
So Cloudflare, they haven't launched it yet, but they have had an internal containers platform for a while. It's getting to the point where it can soon be a publicly available containers platform. And this is really exciting because the reality is the majority of the industry still uses stateful deployments. I love serverless, love all the cool things we can do with it. But it's an uphill battle.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
When that's a thing you're showing people, only one in X number are going to be like, cool, I want to learn more about that. Whereas containers, you're just... selling into an existing habit. So they are launching a containers platform. Why this is really exciting for me is it's going to be one of those really modern container offerings where it's just like, Boots up really quickly.
How About Tomorrow?
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Potentially it like scales to zero. You know, like literally I can spin up another one in 300 milliseconds. Like kind of like fly. Distribute it all around the world. Every single one of their, I think it's like 130. So I'm like over 100 data centers. So fly, but with Cloudflare's network. Yeah, Cloudflare's network and Cloudflare's
How About Tomorrow?
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like they are at massive scale, which means pricing will be decent. Reliability will be decent. Uh, I think right now, if you want that kind of offering, you are looking at like newer companies, uh, or like middleman companies that are wrapping other clouds. So I think it's just going to be really disruptive and combining clouds plus workers, plus durable objects. Sorry. What is it?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Combining containers, plus durable objects, plus workers. Uh, it's, uh, It's going to be a really crazy combo. It makes it feel like a much more complete platform where you can be like, I can run literally anything on here. Uh, yeah. Like I imagine like an elixir distributed cluster.
How About Tomorrow?
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That's like all around the world forming a single cluster, which you probably don't want to do because if there's other reasons you don't want to do that, but like, again, it, it, it,
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
It's just so hard to tell, right? Yeah. So here's what the stock did. It went way too high.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
like way way way way too high during the pandemic like probably one of the stocks that was affected the most and it is now like a third of where nice okay but okay the problem is where it is now could be the correct value so i don't know if you necessarily have an edge in investing right it's not yeah but like there's still a lot of growth ahead of this company like this is a i think so company at the beginning stages of really disrupting
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
It's definitely closer to the big ones. The thing with AWS is they have so many customers, so they're running so many workloads beyond their own. Cloudflare's platform is newer. So most of their usage is their own, like their own usage of it. Okay. So like physically, like they have the infrastructure. Could you explain that? Cloudflare's, most of Cloudflare usage is Cloudflare?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Like, so they basically decided, okay, we're going to build a platform. We're not just like a DDoS company. We're going to build a cloud platform. Building a platform takes a long time. Like I think they're on like year eight or nine, I think. I would generally say it takes 10 years, right? Yeah. So they're close to saying, okay, we have a real platform.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Not that. You mean software platform. I'm talking about like a user-facing offering that you can go and spin up products on. But their core business already involved data centers, servers all around the world. They have done... A lot of things that AWS hasn't. But at the end of the day, in terms of public workloads, AWS has so many, so no one can really compare to them.
How About Tomorrow?
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But there's this perception that I have some kind of business tie to it, which is why this person's not going to... The CEO of this company is not going to email some random person
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
But they're definitely in the category of... Well, one, they're a public company. They're just on a different level compared to these other things in terms of resources. And they are at a crazy scale, which is why their offering can be so cheap. Whereas I would say these other options, like Fly... It's cool because they built their own stuff from day one. It just wraps GCP.
How About Tomorrow?
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Railway also had wrapped GCP. They just announced they're offering their first bare metal stuff. It's in beta now. They announced that two weeks ago. Got it. So again, just like a different category.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah. So they for themselves had to build servers all around the world and make it super programmable so that their engineers can like make configure where the traffic goes and add custom logic. And that's where this whole serverless Cloudflare offering we see comes out of. That's what I mean by their usage is their own.
How About Tomorrow?
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at large scale isn't that crazy but cloudflare if you're like a startup like their their options are just better it's wild how it's such an interesting business because they bet a long time ago that ddos is going to continue to be a problem And you fast forward, it's just like an infinitely growing problem because as time goes on, there's just more devices that are turned on in the world.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
The older they get, the more vulnerabilities they have. And so there's more and more devices available to like do a DDoS. So it's just like this infinitely growing problem. It's like cheaper and cheaper and cheaper to do a DDoS. So they're just like, you like, it's getting to the point where like you have to put something like that in front of whatever you have exposed publicly.
How About Tomorrow?
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being whatever but because there's like you know i have i have a company and i and it kind of does in the same space it feels like inappropriate and we uh so we got that email and we're like oh you know what would we do if we were on the other side of this like if someone was us like what would be our reaction we kind of thought about like what is like the actual conflict here and here's the problem
How About Tomorrow?
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That's why they see that and they see like 30% of that traffic or something crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
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Who and why? I was working on something the other day on my server, and it involved exposing a port externally. And very quickly, just a bunch of requests, just testing for random PHP vulnerabilities, right?
How About Tomorrow?
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It's crazy. It's really wild. It comes from China. Almost all of it is coming from China. I don't think I can say who, but someone was telling me about how their company had a two terabyte per second DDoS system.
How About Tomorrow?
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back in like 2019 or 2020 oh my word that's insane uh it was from the chinese government and it's just normal the chinese government literally just blasts companies and products that you know and use with two terabytes a second of uh of traffic that's crazy and it's like Are they just having fun? Because that one is just... Maybe they're testing capabilities for disrupting stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
In that case, Akamai, I think, was the DDoS protection person and they handled it.
How About Tomorrow?
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Yeah, I had this experience recently because, I don't know if you, you probably didn't see, but I have been exploring video game streaming. Not like streaming video games I play, but like- Like Stadia? Like the Google thing they did? Yes, but like the NVIDIA equivalent.
How About Tomorrow?
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Oh yeah, that's what it's called. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, the idea is, so NVIDIA obviously has their own GPUs. This is actually super cool because like obviously- Do they? They make GPUs?
How About Tomorrow?
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Well, it's cool because they can build this service where like it's running the GPU in the cloud and like sending you the video. They can do it for so cheap because the GPUs are a cost for them. Yeah. But I was like, I tried it out in the past and I was like, OK, but I saw a post being like, what the hell? This stuff is really good now. And I went and tried it.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
So as SST, the company, the product, we actually, especially with V3, we have no opinions. Like whatever you, the user, want to deploy wherever, our role is to help you out. We're not going to be there being like, hey, you should actually use this or like that thing sucks, you should use that. So it's a very neutral position. And that's like how the company is positioned.
How About Tomorrow?
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it is incredible it literally feels like really i have a good gpu locally so i can compare plug-in like turn on my tv plug in like just the cheapest device right that like just streams video connect my controller for yeah it just looks amazing the gpu is better than the one i have here and it's like basically no latency very little just like occasionally you'll get some stutter
How About Tomorrow?
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And I was like, this is wild that I remember using this before. And now we can literally stream like the craziest 4k detail thing here. It's probably related to like, I'm sure Netflix, just like that whole era of like making that all work. I'm sure like, yeah, that just further technology. Yeah. And the video compression and all of that.
How About Tomorrow?
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So then I was like, okay, there's some games that, you know, that aren't in that library that I want to play. Let me try the open source version of this. So I installed something on my computer and again, it works flawlessly.
How About Tomorrow?
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like i can be in any room on my macbook just like pop it open liz's like sitting next to me reading a book i can just play a game and then streaming from my computer and it's all over wi-fi my house is not wired i mean my desktop is wired yeah but my laptop is not wired my my tv device is not wired it's just all over this mesh yeah hero thing that i have
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and it works perfectly so when you say you're looking at is it go beyond just like you're just playing games over it like you're looking into it from like an infrastructure sample or what were you saying at the beginning or you're just just using just personally yeah because i'm like i've always been someone because i like gaming i do less and less of it every year but i still like it uh so i've always had this custom built pc and i run linux yeah
How About Tomorrow?
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yeah and i'm like this is such a hassle to like keep this gpu upgrade it's expensive it's annoying because like yeah gpu's upgrade with other parts of your computer upgrades this whole thing and i'm just past the point in my life where i'm doing it enough where that's worth it but i i love quality so i don't want to give the quality yeah you don't have to
How About Tomorrow?
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It can be in the browser.
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Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
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Oh no. Yeah. So I don't know anything about electronics. That's bad. I'm saying it's just a browser. It's on the day. It's all browser tech. Oh, okay. I think the, the reason I use the app is because, uh, I think they limit Chrome to 1080p. There's some thing that's a little bit... They can't fully control a bitrate or something.
How About Tomorrow?
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So the one I tried is NVIDIA GeForce Now. I think it's GeForce Now. It's $20 a month for the highest tier. It gets you the nicest GPU. $20 a month is... That's like nothing.
How About Tomorrow?
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And I'm sure if you're someone that buys at the right time, sells it at the right time, upgrades at the right time, you're going to beat this, of course. Of course, and if you don't have good internet or your internet's spotty, you're not going to be able to play, but all those trade-offs, whatever, it's such a good deal. That's crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
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Yeah, but the thing is, so there's... So, GeForce Now is just a platform to do this, but then there's other game subscription services, like Microsoft has, like, a monthly $10 a month or whatever, and you get, like, a whole catalog. Mm-hmm. So I just like went and the other cool thing is no downloads. I was like, let me just sign this Microsoft thing.
How About Tomorrow?
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But me as an individual, real human person, I have my preferences. I have my opinions. I think some things are great. I think some things are stupid. And I think people have a hard time, understandably have a hard time, like understanding that these can be
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And I just tried out like 20 different games in like one day. That's crazy. That's like something you can't do, right?
How About Tomorrow?
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Stream it. You don't have to download. They don't have to have a powerful machine. Which already felt kind of crazy that you don't have to go to the store. You can just like...
How About Tomorrow?
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download a game that's crazy download it it's uh it's wild have you seen the microsoft flight simulator 2024 no okay so microsoft flight simulator 2020 was already pretty incredible because it had the whole earth you can literally get in a plane and fly to the whole earth And it was a bunch of AI involved.
How About Tomorrow?
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They just took a lot of data, automatically generated stuff, hand-tweaked more popular places. And it's all one-to-one. So if I took a plane from my local airport and flew it to New York, it would take three hours in the game for me to do. Really? And in 2024...
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is like even crazier like the detail is upped and they do such cool stuff like you're gonna love this okay so they take in in just real time ship data on all the ships in the world you mean like planes are they called ships no no no ships in the ocean what and then they just put them in the game at the exact position they're in so if you're flying over the ocean you look down it's the exact same thing you see
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And they're also ingesting animals.
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Yep. I think they're working on carriers, so you can land on aircraft carriers and stuff. Oh, my word. That's not it. Then they're also ingesting wildlife data of where animals are. And you can literally land a plane anywhere. Not individual animals. By population.
How About Tomorrow?
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two things that are side by side and like they seem conflicting but it's fine i make fun of next.js and think it's the worst thing in the world all the time simultaneously if you come to us trying to play next.js we're gonna bend over backwards to help you right so like yeah it's in conflict but it's fine so i think that's
How About Tomorrow?
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Pigeon number 3043 is right here. But it's an earth simulation, right? But it's generally where they are. So you can land in the savanna and you can get out of the plane and walk around and you'll see... Like giraffes and stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
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Yeah. They're taking it really far where it's like, yeah, it's a flight sim, but it's becoming an Earth sim.
How About Tomorrow?
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And maybe it has a project called Earth 2. And they're doing like a digital Earth.
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It got posted on Hacker News and people were like, oh man, it would be cool if they just released this so we can all just build other cool stuff on it. And I've always had this feeling like some games make really, really cool environments, but it's just used for a single game. I would love to take this world and use it for a different thing.
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Anyway, they have this career mode where you can play as... like a, like a medical rescue helicopter or like a fire, like firefighting helicopter, all this stuff. Um, and I'm like, this is really cool. And it can be rendered in the cloud and stream to you. Oh, and plate.
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It's so technical too, right? It's just like a technical, to build like a simulator, it's very technical engineering oriented. Yeah.
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And so you have to know how to build that simulation and you have to understand the physics of air and how the wind's affected so you can implement it in the game. Oh, sure. It's really, really talented, incredible people that work on it.
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nerds to play on the weekend no i think it's more to it i think it's using like light training stuff yeah um you know my brother's a pilot have i talked about that yeah that's so crazy like it's just to me it's just that's so outside the range of a normal life yeah just fly around every day
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Their whole job is a commute. There's no, like, I commuted and arrived. The commute is a job.
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That creates confusion around interpreting this, but I personally see it as the same way that we'd make fun of any company way outside of our space.
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And it's technically the same thing. He probably perceives it in the same way. But for us, we're like, you are literally going to like another place. Like, how is this happening?
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You're going to get an email from the truck driving CEO for this one.
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You know what the, is an example of this, like being able to get help. And so it's a weird superpower to have. I had, I don't know if you saw this, but I had like, this was a few months ago, I had these like flies in my sink. Like they kept, kept like killing them, but they just kept coming out of like our sink.
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Yeah, out of the drain. And it's a very like common thing apparently, but I'd never had that before.
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And I was like, what? They're really tiny. They're super, super small. And I was like, what the hell? Like, what should we do? We're looking up online, like pour water, hot water down, do this and that. We tried it all. It just, everything just kept coming back.
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And then I posted about it and someone was like, oh yeah, before I was in, before I was a software engineer, I was like a food safety, like his job was to like design how kitchens like stayed clean. And he was like, here's a link to this thing. And it was like some weird phone that he linked me to.
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and then I just took I got it I ordered it and I sprayed it down the down the sink and I was like I don't think I did this right because like some part of it was messed up Next day, completely gone. Really? I don't think I would have ever solved this problem. I think I would have moved out of my house. I think that's what would have happened otherwise. I just immediately fixed it.
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And I don't think I would have found it otherwise.
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No, the bend is what makes it possible, I think. Oh. Because the bend allows for... I forgot, it's like a name of... There's like a name of that...
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piece of the pipe i forgot what it is but i think it leaves like a pocket of air or something so when you run water through there's like technically an area that uh that stays second yeah so i think you'll like get you'll get a bunch of them but eventually they'll like there'll be this area that's just not being hit with water okay interesting yeah but and this here's the craziest part i was looking this up online and i was like and people were saying that
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
yeah oftentimes if you like make it a problem for them they'll move to another drain in your house like through the pipes people are like yeah we got rid of them here but then they popped up over there yeah huh like whack-a-mole you're right that there is this bend and i don't really understand where i thought that kept like water in between i mean we have a garbage disposal it's possible they're like somewhere they were somewhere in the garbage disposal it's hard to hard to tell yeah
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
A lot better. They're a lot better. It's just not 100% effective. It's way better than it used to be. Yeah. And if... The good news is if I'm like in the morning, if I spend five minutes killing them with the, we got a new electric racket and this was way better. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. It's got multiple. The one that you use had a single layer of electricity.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
This has like three layers of electricity. So basically impossible to go through. You can't miss. You can't miss. And it's this really nice pop, which, you know, you experienced. I love the pop. In the morning, if I spend five minutes just getting, there's like these usual locations where they are. If I can spend five minutes getting them, it's like pretty good for the day. They're gone. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
You just got to wear mosquito repellent the next time. We're so stupid for not thinking of that. I was so stupid for not thinking of that. All of us. I didn't even think about that either. Next time.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yes, there's some tickets and they're selling a lot, way more than they did previous year. Nice.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
No, I was looking at the clock.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
No, I have to go in a minute for a meeting that might not even happen. Oh, yeah, yeah. We can get off here.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah, we're going to have someone on next week.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Also, it's not just sponsored by Terminal. According to Verso, it's also sponsored by Cloudflare.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I don't actually know. Probably not. There is not. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
The reality is you're going to have to switch color themes now. I guess so. You're going to have to come over to Tokyo Night. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Like I know I say this about everything. You probably were using it 10 years ago. Yeah, exactly.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I know. I saw it. Where did I see it? Was it? That guy, Fatty. Oh. I'm probably butchering his name. Yeah, I think I know who you're talking about. Yeah. He like just built it all, like all the go tooling, tons of stuff. I think he had it like super long ago.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I'm in a lot of trouble.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Everybody uses Dracula. I've seen Dracula for years, for years and years and years. And at some point I was like, I think I like read it wrong. And I was like, oh, it's Darkula. It's a pun.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I'm all in. There's a paid version.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
This is crazy. No wonder Resend thinks that they can make money selling anything. That's the last one. That's the last one. Okay. It makes me feel better. I did message him and I was like, the last thing I said to him was, yeah, how are things? Prove me wrong.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I mean, the thing is, I didn't, I don't think I like messaged him in a way that he feels good about necessarily, but I did say, you know, okay, prove me wrong. Like, that's really all we can do.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
You know, what's crazy, Adam, that's your perception of it. My perception of it is, man, I need to get to a place where I can like hold back even less and,
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
In reality, if this was like the ideal version of this is Jay got that email and he would reply, WTF, why are you wasting my time with this? And then reply back. Because, and you know why I thought about this? I was like, Frank, send us a screenshot of a Steve Jobs email. Have I seen this? That Steve Jobs Adobe email.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
and it was like way like more clever than what i just said but uh it's just clearly like it's so to the point and there's zero fakeness it's just his exact emotion yeah forward whereas you know the rest of us we qualify and say things in a certain way to make the other person not feel too upset even though it's not it's kind of fake to some yeah yeah uh
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah. And what's crazy is I...
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I'm just saying, Pete, someone could always just hire a hitman. There's always that possibility. Oh, like real trouble.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
still feel all of what you're describing like it's still very difficult for me to be in situations and feel like okay i was like true to myself uh so maybe i could push through maybe there's hope yeah i'm saying even for me it's really hard and i didn't grow up in like an environment that even had any like the midwestern thing you're talking about so yeah it's just it's just hard and there's still a lot done like we are social animals like we're just so you know
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And there's some value to it, of course. I don't think Steve Jobs... I wouldn't literally want to be Steve Jobs in every interaction. The other thing that I'm understanding now is I feel like there's also different flavors of this. So... The Midwest one, I feel like it's avoidant. Like, yeah, it's more of a topic change or like not saying anything. Yes.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I think there's a California version of this, which to me is the Midwest one. I can just like, yeah, the Midwest one is just like, to me, it's like quirky and funny. You know, it's like a funny, funny thing. The California one, I find really weird because it, to me, it's extremely passive aggressive, but they think it's,
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
not transparent like it'll always be like I mean even in this email that we got there's like all these lines in it that are like so clearly like a jab or like making a point but it's like wrapped in this language that's supposed to like you know neutralize it or whatever and to me it's like extremely passive aggressive and very obvious what they're actually trying to say and so it seems like very shady to me but I think people that are from California are like this is us being polite and
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah. So I really don't like that one. That one is tough for me. Yeah. No, I'm with you. Receiving end.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah, so yesterday we posted about... So Cloudflare's... It's been Cloudflare's birthday week. They've been doing a bunch of releases. One of them was they are now very actively supporting Next.js on workers because the workers Node.js compatibility story has gotten much, much better. Okay. So they have got... They are like, okay, we can say we're actively supporting Next.js
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
they messaged us a few weeks ago being like, Hey, we have this adapter. It's working. We think it can make a lot of sense to like put it under the open next like bucket umbrella, which I thought was a good idea. The whole point of open next was instead of these fragmented efforts, let's put it all in one place so that there's some cross pollination, uh,
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
But in the short term, there is actually no cross-pollination. It's just they have their adapter. I did some reworking of our docs so they can put the Cloudflare specific docs in there. And then they publish their adapter to the GitHub repo.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
Yeah, so I think the way it's actually structured is the thing that we built was actually the AWS adapter. So it's now being rehoused as OpenXJS slash AWS. And now they have OpenXJS slash Cloudflare. So there's actually no overlap. There's no overlap.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
yeah well i guess two things so i got in trouble after our episode last week oh right uh where i besmirched the name of a company uh
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
So it's like we manage the AWS one, they manage the Cloudflare one. We have another company that's also gonna be joining in a few weeks. Ooh, can I guess? Or is that like no good?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I'm just going to say it. So we have another one coming. So we announced it yesterday. The response was crazy. Like my post has like 2,000 likes.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
wow that's like lambo video like yeah counts it's wild like people were really excited because there is a lot of pent-up demand to like try out cloudflare and a lot of people use next year so everyone was really really excited unfortunately someone tagged guillermo in the replies being like what's your position on this i of course reply with a joke being like i'm assuming their position is we wish them the best of luck but unintelligible jargon like i just put that in there
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And then we got an essay from top G. Okay. Just saying a bunch of stuff and an intelligible dragon. Yeah. It was just like really defensive.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
normally ignoring usually smart enough to ignore yeah yeah in it he implied some things that I was like I like didn't really take too seriously because I don't know if it was just like in the heat of the moment but he implied like He says the phrase was something like Cloudflare wants to be in this large argument, but basically saying Cloudflare wants to be your host effectively.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And they're spending millions of dollars in marketing to do this, including sponsoring DAX or like partnering with DAX. And I was like, OK, he probably just means that like. they're spending money on marketing and separately, they're just partnering with us. And it was a bunch of back and forth in there. I like made my usual jabs.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And I made another post later that was definitely exceptionally annoying. Then today, the thing that I... The only thing that bothers me about his replies was when he describes this as like a made up problem. He said that we open next is like a made up thing for engagement. Like we work on this thing to get like we say that next year is hard to deploy for engagement and likes.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
I don't like that because I know the people that work on the project and they like they work very hard and they really like next year. Yes. But that makes me feel bad. And that's the one thing I have an issue with. So this morning I posted a screenshot from our open next doc saying, just showing like, Oh, look at this thing that they documented.
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
You know, it's about this pretty complicated thing that can break when you try to self host next and how they like work through it and figure it out. And it's, you know, it's interesting to see that this is a tedious work that they do. I was like, it's not made up. It's like, this is like a real thing. Like this, these are real problems. Uh, we're not doing this for likes. These are,
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
The two people that work on it, we actually don't know who they are. They are GitHub, no profile picture, work super hard on this thing, amazing, that whole situation. Anyway, that point, and again, someone tagged him, Guillermo, being like, is this true? Which is a weird question. It's just like, what do you mean, is this true? Like, you think we like made up this post and we just wrote this?
How About Tomorrow?
Dax Is Definitely Not Sponsored By Cloudflare and Adam is Definitely a Real Human Being
And he replies being like, it's not true. this is probably just a problem with Cloudflare. I had to think of Cloudflare. He was like, it's probably just a problem with Cloudflare, like comma, Dax's new sponsors. I saw this, yeah. Yeah, and I'm just like, okay, so you are definitely suggesting that Cloudflare is paying me to now say bad things about you guys. And I was probably being like,
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Hi, my name is Dax and I'm using a mic. I'm a white person. How bad can it be?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, I guess the reason I brought up drones, it just feels like one of those things that it was like 10 years ago or whatever when people got the first consumer drones. And I just remember thinking like, man, someday they're just going to be flying all over the place. And they're not. So I just wondered like, why? Is it just kind of a novelty? Is there a reason to own one as a person?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like, I want to own one. You know me. I'm like a... I buy a lot of things. I'm a consumer at heart. I don't own one, but I have no reason to own one. That's the only reason I don't.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Programming Twitch streamers?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Okay, cool. Because I feel bad when that kind of thing happens. And then I'm like, is this what always happens? Do I have a reputation? I don't know. Because in different circles, different friendships over my life, I've had that reputation. And I wonder if I've shook it off. And this is rare. I don't know. just started thinking for me hearing this, it's funny.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I mean, for movies, I think. Are you saying for lower budget stuff?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I watched all the Lord of the Rings special footage in high school, and I'm pretty sure they use helicopters. Yeah. Right. Today, would they just do that with drones then, I guess?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like, is there any loss of quality by using a drone? Probably not.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
My small rig thing. Oh, yeah. It's like an iPhone harness thing. So we can just film stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You can quickly reorient it to have different angles and stuff. Oh, nice. And people can see this if they want to go to YouTube, by the way. Our podcast is on YouTube. I don't know if you want to watch us talk.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Wow. Room for an SSD. That's brilliant. That's a small rig thing you said?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Has anyone made like, like a movie, like a bit, like not a big movie, but like a movie with an iPhone.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It's like a, in the theaters movie. Yeah. It's like a hundred million dollars budget, like something.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
What? But here's the funny part, right?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
So it's like, okay. Yeah. It was like guys walking around, hold my phones. Like, yeah, it's not that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like, yeah, I guess because it doesn't have like, I don't know. I don't know a lot about cameras, but like, I feel like how do you get the real depth of field without... Is that just the lens?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
That's where it's weak, right? Because it doesn't have like a shutter and an aperture and all that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Okay. So people have broke it down. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
That's wild. Do they even make like cameras that aren't really nice cameras? Do they make like point and shoots anymore? Is there any reason to buy those? Like I would think there's no market. If your phone has a better camera. I mean, that used to be a thing, you know, like camcorders and cameras that were all like varying price points. I had that growing up. Yeah. Like a digital camera.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It had a little like zoom out lens on it.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Doesn't exist. It's kind of wild. It's kind of wild to imagine like life as an adult now without an iPhone or without just a smartphone, I guess. Can you imagine like navigation? That's the one I always think of. Like when we drive somewhere, there's so many little things.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah. They were simpler times. Hey, we got an election coming up. That's exciting. Yeah. I'm voting for the first time in my whole life. No, you're not. What? Yeah. Yeah. What are you, 20? What are you talking about?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Wait, what? Yeah. I'm sorry. How did I not know this about you? We're 113 episodes in. How did I not know that you're only like recently?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like, how many years in? So, like, 20 years into being here? Yeah, I could have done it a long time ago.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, so it was just more like a formality? It wasn't like you were waiting in line for 20 years? No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. It's like getting a driver's license. The kids who are, like, waiting until they're 17. You're like, what are you thinking? Why aren't you driving? Yeah, it's exactly like that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Did they stick with that, I wonder? Did they abandon that policy? It seems more efficient. Yeah, it's such a formality. But you got to be sworn in as a citizen. I don't think I got sworn in. I was just born.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It sounds kind of cool. It's like a moment where you're like, okay, I'll do it. I'll be a citizen and I'll be a good one.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
non-combatant military duties because i actually don't think they like make you commit to doing military duties yeah military stuff they say like they say you commit to doing at least non-combatant military duty huh there's a little little disclaimer on there were there any you had to think about were there any that you're like oh do i want to do i want to swear to this they're like you have to accept next.js as the best react framework meta framework
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I was going to guess taxes. I thought a moment there, I thought I should get to guess. But that would have been my guess. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah. But America, if you're a citizen, like to not pay U.S. taxes, you just have to renounce your citizenship. Right.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, do they just say, I renounce my citizenship? Or there's like some paperwork probably? What is that from? There's something, is that Arrested Development where? I declare bankruptcy. I declare bankruptcy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael Scott, yeah. I declare bankruptcy. I declare bankruptcy.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
that's how it feels like it should work yeah i renounced it did you hear me uh so you were sworn in i can't believe you've never voted this is all like i like i knew you weren't born here but for some reason i just thought you've always been a citizen i don't know why like why i thought you just got it i don't know this is news to me the timeline of dax and his citizenship.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
So you were a citizen of India.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
But if the other country does recognize, we're fine.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why? It's so funny to me. It's such an American thing to be like, we don't recognize dual citizenship. Like you don't need to, it doesn't matter. Like if the other country does, then like what, you know what I mean?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, nice. Okay. Well, that's good. Just saying community or just kind of talking about past friends. Do you have a hard time... This just came up last night. I was talking with Casey about it. I have a string of very close friendships over my adult life. And even going beyond that, like going back into school, like high school or whatever. I have always had a really close friend and...
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Do you ever just, like, predict those? Or you just, like, can imagine this whole thing exists, but you're not going to look into it. You just know it does. Like, I know there are people who compete with, like, how many citizenships they have. I've never heard this before. I'm sure there's a Reddit.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I'm not going to look it up, but it's just kind of fun to think, like, there's a guy that has, like, eight citizenships and he's, like, the record holder. Just, like, the languages. Like, that's very similar to, like, I know two dozen languages.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I do travel a little bit. That was kind of a dumb joke. I used to not. I think I was like 18 before I left the state of Missouri. Isn't that sad?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I'm one of those. You never saw the ocean until... No, I guess I wasn't 18.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
No, that's not true. We went to Florida. I don't know what I'm talking about. I must have just imagined myself as a... He was making up some kind of tragic story for yourself. Yeah. Uh, I definitely have never gone overseas and I've only really gone. Wait, have I gone overseas? I've gone to Mexico. That's not over in a sea. Have I never gone? I've never gone over a sea.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
No, none of them. That's crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
There's DevRel's that go to Europe like every other weekend.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You've been to Canada? Yeah. I've been into the waters of Canada.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
In Buffalo. Oh, like Niagara Falls? Niagara Falls, yes. The waters of Canada.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I've been to Niagara Falls, which is kind of Canada, and I've been to Mexico. So that's it. North America. I've only been to North America.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You were like born in another country. You had to be sworn in as a citizen. That's amazing.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Swim here. You're so cultured.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Was it a disaster?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, TJ, you did not love that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
What did they announce? What kind of new goodies do we have to play with?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, for real? Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Wow. Look at that. Is that more than you've ever given any Open Next contributors? Not to throw any shade, but... Yeah, it's definitely more. I'm just messing. I mean, I believe you, but I'm not trying to, like, shoot you down. You guys are playing nice. You and Vercel sitting in a tree. Who knew?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It's like someone at Vercel was sitting in a meeting with some higher-ups, and they were like, have we tried just being nice to these people? Have we tried that? And everybody was like, huh.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
And then it worked. It's amazing.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
There's like three or four of them that I never thought I wouldn't stay in touch. But it's so hard to like... try to stay in touch or even like want to respond when they try to stay in touch. Cause it just feels like this very heavy thing that like, if I'm going to talk to you at all, are we going to have to have like a really close relationship?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
We're not going to win in a flame war, but what if we're just nice? What if we just work with them?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It's for babies. Oh, it's funny. It's for literal babies. What's it like to be abrasive on the internet? I just couldn't do it. I couldn't be. I mean, like, I can be abrasive, but I couldn't be, like, openly in conflict with something.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Okay. So that reminds me, uh, like how I've not been on Twitter really. And something happened last night. So if this person listens to the podcast, I love you. I don't mean this in a negative way, but someone actually messaged my wife on Instagram, someone that I was close with in the past that I haven't kept in touch with.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Just the whole conversation at the beginning of this where I'm bad at staying in touch. They were concerned about me, and the reason they cited was that I haven't been posting on X. Okay. I just thought that was so funny. Like they're concerned with me because I'm not posting on X. And I just think like, isn't that kind of backward?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like if I were posting a lot on X, I feel like be concerned that I'm too online, but like, I don't know. He doesn't seem like he's doing okay. He's not posting on X. I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I feel like if you were to like chart it, like X, Y axis, the better my life is going, the less you will see me on X. I promise you there's a future where I'm like retired and not doing anything technology related. And I will never literally open the app again. And that's, I think, why I'm not really getting on it these days. It's like, I just have no desire to read any technical anything.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like anything anybody has to say, even you. I mean, I just like, it's not that it's not interesting. I'm sure it's interesting. It just doesn't interest me at all. And that's the only thing I have on Twitter. Like, I don't have any other circles on Twitter that are like other types of content. So when I open Twitter, it's just a bunch of tech stuff. And I just don't care.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like we used to, I say really close, like whatever is really close as I can be to somebody. It just feels like too much effort to even consider the relationship because we used to be close.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I don't know what happened. I still love programming. It's my job. But for some reason, like most of all, maybe this is bad for our podcast. I don't know. Most all tech stuff just doesn't really do it for me anymore. I don't know if it'll come back, but for now...
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It's not even like I'm not interested in the recurring themes or anything. It's just normal stuff that... people would want to share because it's cool. They're working on this thing or this thing is interesting to them. It's just, for some reason, it's really not interesting to me. And I don't know what happened and when.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Because I always imagine there's lots of developers that don't get on Twitter. And they don't read Hacker News. They just like their job, but they don't necessarily... obsess or dive deep on all that's going on in the world of technology. I feel like that's happened to me. And I don't know what that means for like, uh, I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I've peaked.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I was thinking more in terms of like the podcast. Cause I do realize like people might listen to us because they care that we talk about technology. I'm not saying I don't like to talk about technology with you. Cause it is kind of interesting, especially stuff that's not like programming more like, uh, just things that affect my life, like how technology is changing the world around us.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
That stuff's way more interesting to me than like, I don't know, Svelte 5 is out. I'm like, I don't know. What does Svelte 5 do? I just don't care anymore.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
maybe stuff is happening and i just don't care maybe maybe that's what it is maybe there's like there's not enough big changes it's too incremental and i'm just oh wait 12 five coming out that's a literal thing you weren't that wasn't like a made-up example i literally saw that when i opened twitter and it's another example of like i used to care about this stuff i used to like i think i did see that a couple days ago and i just didn't even bother looking into it
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, I have no idea what it is. And we use Svelte, like literally. It's all over the code base. I don't even know what version we use, to be honest. I've become that person.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Completely checked out. I just don't even know what Svelte 5 is. I'm sure it's great.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Does that make you want to build more things, like have more irons in the fire just so you can use your... Because I feel like that's a superpower to get to the place where you're not fiddling with your stack anymore and you're not unhappy with this part of your app development process.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I feel like I'd want to just build all the things if I felt like... I guess you still have to do all the front end and styling and all that part that eats up time and cycles.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Your process, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You're gonna give us a little inside scoop or are you just gonna hold it to yourself?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
We've talked about this before.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Are you going to build it?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
There's SaaS tools, probably.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Have you come up with a name yet? That's the hardest part of any new library or project.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, okay. If you're taking any input on names, have you considered Aragorn? Or what was his sword's name?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Andoril. It's taken in the military space, but I feel like on the consumer side, fair game. And drill. I'll consider it. And drill.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah. That's the thing about like coming up with a name. You have to have a domain that works. It has to sound good and read good and look good. There are like all these facets.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
SEO good. Yeah. There's a lot of, I hate naming things. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. I would have so many projects if naming wasn't hard.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, but then I feel like those just feel so forced to, like... Because there's only so many good sounds left, too. A lot of them aren't taken because they're awful. Like Dorf. School block. It is a new sound. You're right. Maybe just don't. Dorf.io. With a PH at the end. It's like Dorf. That's not supposed to be a sound in English. It's just not one we make.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Are you ever going to do another side project ever again? That's a great question because I have done so good at not having side projects. I don't think I will because... Terminal is a side project. Terminal is a side project. Terminal is kind of my side project. I mean, like... I don't need anything else at this point. I feel like my plate is full and I'm happy with both of them.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
They're so different. So like I could just work on stat muse by itself forever. And then when there is like something that needs to be done on terminal, it's this nice little refreshing like, oh, go Lang. That's fun. Forgot about going. Yeah, no, I think I'm good.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You write so much Go.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, everyone's going to have it? I'm going to have to find a new exclusive one.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I didn't understand it. Like, even seeing you guys talk about it, I still don't really know what you guys were saying.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Okay, so is most of the ghosty effort then in the library or in the front ends?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I love the... Just speaking of side projects, I love, like, Mitchell's path of... like doing this big grand thing like Terraform that's just so like influential in the industry. And then being like, now I'm going to work on a, it was just a Mac terminal emulator and going like all in. And it's like, you just see people who are really good at stuff. They're just going to make good stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like he made, really cool thing. And then he comes along and he's going to make another really cool thing. Like, everything he touches is going to be good.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like, I can't really conceptualize most of these things. And you're like, multiplexer. Nope, that sounds fake. That's made up.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Well, I mean, it's been a week. We skipped a week, so it's kind of like, I haven't talked to you in two weeks. There's that. I am kind of upset that I paused this video. I'm watching Ashton Ginty. He's a running back for Boise State. And I just kept hearing his name. It's one of those deals where it's like, You keep randomly hearing about this person. I mean, I listen to a lot of NFL stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I know, I know, I know. And, like, I kind of know, like, I could have a conversation with someone and be like, yeah, I use Ghosty as an emulator. But I don't really know what that means. I don't know what an emulator really is. I just know I could use Ghosty or I could use iTerm or, you know, Alacrity or whatever. I know what the emulators are, but I don't know why they're called emulators.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Does that make sense?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
CLIs are confusing.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
There's a shell. How's it like an emulator? And yeah, I don't understand all the layers. Why are there so many layers?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, God. Stop.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I'm so confused.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
So that's why they're called emulators. I didn't know this. So it's like they used to be the mainframe terminal. It's like a terminal station, like a place you could walk up to that's got access into the workstation thing. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, wow, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, ANSI codes.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
ANSI codes, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm totally tracking. I'm right with you.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
like any kind of screen right using your graphics capabilities of your computer that's why they're called an emulator an emulator they're emulating that physical terminal okay that's cool yeah that's actually pretty cool yeah and all the clis you start just know how to emit anti anti codes yeah that's it okay and that's what our company does and that's why it's called terminal
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Insert and edit? No.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Wait, what? There's raw mode and normal mode?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
All right. I got to get off here. I got to get my kid off screen time. I'm solo dadding. So if you've been listening to this whole episode, just think my kid's been watching a screen the whole time. I'm a terrible parent. I'm so sorry. Maybe he's watching our last episode. Maybe. That would not be very good for a kid. He would not enjoy that now. He's five. All right. Okay. Whatever. You're fine.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Whatever. Tough crowd. Okay. I'll see you next week. Yeah. All right. See you next. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah. It feels like this graveyard of past relationships, but like they're still alive and you still could like stay in touch kind of, but it just feels like, I don't know, like it's never gonna happen. And I don't know if I want it to happen. Like, I feel like if I was in a room with any one of them, It would immediately be like it used to be, and it would feel... You know what I mean?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
But it's like we don't live near each other, or if we do, we're just living very different lives. Yeah, like you said, if we don't talk every week, it's just very hard to imagine still having... That friendship. I don't know. It's weird. It's kind of weird. Yeah, I think like you, I just never expected it to happen.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I don't know what I expected, but all those people I would have thought I'd be close with forever. And I never would have thought I'd have like a handful of them because I've just been alive long enough. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
That's the weird part. I think that's what I'm really hung up on in the conversation with Casey last night. It's like, it really wouldn't take that much. It's not that much effort. Why don't I put it forward? Because it's really like, it just feels like the easiest thing in the world. And those were valuable relationships I had. But I just continue to not do it and almost actively avoid it.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I don't know. It's interesting.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Just one of those things about getting older, I guess. A lot of bad things about getting older. They say, like, time goes faster the older you get. Have you heard that? I don't want to talk about that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Okay. Well, the one thing I was going to say is it just already feels like it's going so fast. So, like, how can it go faster? Anyway, I'll stop.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
He's a college football player, and he's amazing. And I don't know why that's on our podcast, because it's very random. But you should watch some Ashton Gentry highlights. Running back. He's amazing. He's a running back? Yeah, and running backs. Yeah, running back highlights are always really fun. But running backs in the NFL, it's like whatever. It's just like... You can get a dime a dozen.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
I do remember now, Casey and I have talked about this as an antidote to our kids just disappearing from our lives and it going so fast. It's like... Things like a year feels slow.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
If you can, if you have like a lot of memories and you don't really make memories unless you break out of your normal routine, like basically you have to like have experiences, do things that are different out of the normal. So the more, yeah, like you said, the more you can do that, you have these markers that kind of like stretch back over the year and it slows that year down.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It makes it feel like, I don't know. It's the whole thing. It's, I guess it's just perception and retrospect. It's not really feeling slower in the moment. It's about like, Feeling like, I don't know, you lived a year worthwhile at the end of it, I guess. Not just feeling like, I can't believe it's Christmas again. It's not having that feeling. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
It does feel like a long time ago. And now we got New York. New York. People still don't know what we're doing, right? I know what we're doing, but people don't.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Wait, what?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Five people? How many did we have? Did we have backups?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
And it was two teams of four. Are we on any of the teams? What are we doing? What do I have to do?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I hope that works out. Yeah. Because that's I just saw the list of names. That'd be a bummer.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, I guess it's gone too smoothly to this point.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Just shout out real quick to Liz for being awesome and on top of all the things. She's doing such a good job.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
MVP. When's she going to organize an Ozarkian paintball match? Because that would be a lot of fun. The podcast will have a little sneak peek on that one. They'll know what's coming. When we're like, we're doing an event in the Ozarks, they'll know. There's nothing else we would do here.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You don't really need a good running back. But then every once in a while, there's one of those generational prospects they call him. It's like they change franchises even at the running back position. He looks really good. Anyway, I don't know anything about running back or scouting or whatever. But the highlights are cool. Moving on.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Like, there has to be some kind of... Well, I'm trying to think of precedent. Like, are there ways that the government tries to keep us from killing ourselves accidentally?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
That would be amazing. How funny would that be? There's something about that just remind me of drones. What's going on with drones these days? I feel like drones have been around a long time. And like, has the technology gotten better? Drones. I mean, can you buy really amazing drones now? And are there laws around flying drones? I don't know. I've heard things about that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Aragorn? Okay. Oh, Lord of the Rings. I actually know that.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, his sword is named Anduril. I think I knew that, but you're saying it funny.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
You're saying it like somebody who has only ever read it.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
somehow i don't know i definitely have only i've read return of the king i've mostly watched it i'm sorry i don't i don't have a native middle earth accent well i just couldn't tell if you're saying andrew or andrew andrew andrew i've never said it out loud i think that's the issue yeah i guess why would you why would you say aragorn's sword out loud you know like where would that come up
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
When I say I need like 15, 20 minutes, am I the kind of person that when you hear that, you just immediately think it's going to be 45 minutes? Have I earned that reputation yet? Or do you not think that?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, like synchronized drone shows. So I knew about that. I knew China was doing something at the Olympics several years ago. So I figured, has that made it into consumer stuff? Can I buy a drone show if I want to... Hire somebody to come to a drone show at my event. That's like a thing. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
So it's made it to Miami. It'll be in the Ozarks in about four or five years. Something like that. It could be you. It could be me. Maybe I'll just start a new career as a drone operator.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Oh, they totally would think it was UFOs. I thought Starlink was UFOs when I saw it for the first time. No joke. I was in the shower and I freaked out. I was like, Casey, oh my God, what is this? There's nothing that could be that. It's gotta be. And then we looked it up. Have you seen Starlink at night? Like the big string of them?
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
If you've never heard of that or seen it, it's like, what else could be flying together like that? Like nothing moves that. It's not a plane. It's not planes. I don't think. It's not shooting stars all synchronized together.
How About Tomorrow?
Time Moves Slowly, Friendships Drifting, and Adam Learns Something New About Dax
Yeah, wild. I know drones were really influential in like the Ukraine, Russia conflicts, ongoing conflicts.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I don't know if we should cut this out. I just don't listen to podcasts. So I have no idea if what we're doing is.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I think I flip between those two modes.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Yeah, because if you look at... I mean, if I think about SSD right now, we're definitely in the... So we call it, like, dummy mode. It's, like, it's... Because, like, the phase we're in right now, we don't have to use our brains too much. We spent, like, six months building Ion. And that was, like, a lot of, like, kind of what you're talking about. Like, you know...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. The other thing though, is have you seen, there's this funny thing where there's human made forests and they'll grow and they kind of look, Oh, like, wow, that's pretty impressive. Like we, we made this forest. Then you'll see a side-by-side shot with an actual forest, and it's way more chaotic and crazy. It's hard to replicate that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
focused effort and like you know pushing but now we've like done all the thinking and now every day we wake up there's a bunch of issues we just fix them one by one and they're all like pretty straightforward uh bugs new features whatever and like we don't have to like the order we do them doesn't matter like we're just totally reactive and we just have to do everything and if we do this for six months we'll look back and i'll be like a very polished product with a lot with a lot of stuff so yeah
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It feels more relaxed in that I'm not like having all these existential questions of like, who are we? What are we? What do we want to do? You know?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I feel that shifts. I don't feel like I'm always in.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
That's probably normal. I guess. I think the other thing is, is like, we don't really have releases like that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, it's easy for us because the thing we release is a CLI, which is versioned. So, like, if it's broken, it's fine. Just go back to the previous version.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. So, that's kind of nice. I just finish and I just run one command and it's out. And I don't have to really think about anything. If it breaks, I'll just do another one. So, yeah, it's just different. But... I do think that we do have moments where we're like doing a more like release oriented thing. And it is good because it kind of forces us to go faster than we normally would.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Or like, like there's a good impact of that. I just don't think we can be in like that all the time.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Speaking of relative chill, uh, did you see relative chill at home? Did you see the Amazon return to office thing?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Before, yeah. So I don't know how related it is. I mean, they've been bleeding people for a while, so it might just be a continuation of that. But yeah, I think they said... Officially backed five days in the office and everyone's really angry and there's a lot of discussion going on about it.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Three days in your hub and now you have to be where your team is, which is likely not where you live and you'd have to move.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
15 years now, nobody's telling me where to live at this point. Yeah. I'm totally on the evil side of this. Like everyone's going to hate my thoughts on this.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Is it both? No, I've been annoyed by this forever. And a lot of it is like personal and irrational. But I do think I also have a rational case. Like you, I've worked mostly remote my whole career. A lot of time was as a consultant. I've seen a lot of companies. Almost none of them do remote well. Almost none of them do remote well. That makes sense. I will only ever work for remote companies.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
So I'm willing to, you know, sacrifice the ability to work at a lot of these places that, you know, pay a lot because they require to be in the office. And that's been my position for a long time. Yep. I don't think a company like Amazon that never intended to be remote, that attracted, that kind of offered this opportunity
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
very stable straightforward path of like making a lot of money i can see why them just flipping to remote overnight doesn't work out yeah right like if i'm being totally honest like a lot of these companies like the motivation isn't very high then the relationship is how do i do the least amount of work while still getting what i need and there's like attention and that's like
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
At these big companies, that's kind of how it is. And I think when you go to remote overnight, it just swings really hard in one way.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, it was all because of COVID. And there's like, there's different people at fault for that. Like some of it's a company, some of it's the people that are working there, but like just like the employees. But the arguments that people make of why Amazon is doing this, they're not very good. They're like weird conspiracy theories.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's definitely less robust and stuff like that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I'm sure some of it is because they get to like, it's like a free layoff. It's a way to pare back your workforce, like make some cuts.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
like that i'm not gonna say that's not a case but it's like a random layoff and like yeah being willing to just like randomly lose people is like it's kind of a stretch i think but i'll acknowledge okay maybe that that is there somewhere i've definitely seen the extreme uh conspiracy theories like commercial real estate like somehow they're in cahoots like what would that look like it's like it's not that it's like if that yeah so when people start talking like that i know like
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
You just want you just like got remote for free and you like don't really want to fight for it and you want to have some like thing to complain for. If you really want to work remote and you care about that, quit and go find a place like be good enough to go find a place that is like, hell yeah, we'll hire you.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And this just reverts back to how it used to be, which is I work for a bunch of companies that were not remote. I went and I interviewed and I got them really excited about me. Then I had to negotiate letting me work remote.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And that was hard and annoying. And oftentimes it was a no, but you can still pull it off if like you really care about it. So that's one side. That's like the personal side where I'm just like, I just find the complaints around as annoying. Like you care about it. Like you can make it happen. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Then the other side is. I think Amazon just needs a reset.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I think any kind of big change is probably going to be good for them, especially AWS. If we look back over the last four or five years, I feel like things have been kind of different. They haven't really shipped as much. They really seem to be lagging. There's a lack of cohesion and they're falling behind in a bunch of places. So any kind of reset for them I think would be good.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yes, that means losing a bunch of good people and there's going to be pain in the short term. But I think that will be, I just think that's probably good for them. They probably way over hired during COVID. That was definitely a thing. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. But like, it was also just money was cheap too and free flowing. So like, I'm sure like any decision that, you know, there's a 20% chance of make the decision. It probably turns like an 80% chance. And it just, yeah. Yeah. Bloated everything. And yeah, that's why you have this nice cushy job. It's because of that overhiring. So at some point there's going to be a correction.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Look at this forest. Liz showed me this video yesterday where it was one of those... Oh, day in my life type of things. Um, but I was with this woman in South Africa. I don't know if you saw it, but, uh, it's like her with her like young kids and they live in this like complex. It's like, uh, it's, it's an apartment. It's like an apartment complex. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I have no idea. I just don't know any of the details. I, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Again, I don't know if it was, if it's like, I just don't know. Like there might just be a certain, maybe they just started making money too easily. Like that's also like a weird dynamic that messes this stuff up.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, they're making $100 billion revenue a year. It's still growing. That's pretty outrageous numbers.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, no, but that actually is true. Like why, like they should be leading AI, really. I don't think they need to reorient their whole business around it, but like, yeah, it is weird. They just were completely caught on that. I just don't see them.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, a lot of the big companies. Yeah, I mean, I just don't see them leading in a lot of places in terms of, like, pushing how we do things, like, you know, pushing the bar on that. They're not, like, lowering prices as much as they used to. They're not, like... Didn't they actually raise prices on something? Like, the first time?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I didn't think the first time ever they raised prices on something. I can't remember what it was. Inflation. I'm just, like, not feeling that thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I mean, it's not feeling that thing I'm looking for where I'm like, oh yeah, there's a lot of energy here and they're like pushing and they're thinking about, you know, disrupting their own products and all that. There are like exceptions. I do think there's some stuff coming out that is going to be interesting, but... But it's been a couple of reinvents that were kind of underwhelming.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, exactly. So I just think they need to reset whatever big disruption they need to do is probably good. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's going back to where it used to be, which is if you can get a company really, really excited about you, they'll still let you work remote.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, I think if I explain dynamics, I can actually clearly explain why like, yeah, it's going to be extra hard for a company like Amazon. When we work remote, what that looks like is work infiltrates way more. Oh yeah. Of our, of our life because we don't have clock in clock out. We message each other all kinds of day, like time, like we're working out. Like it just,
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Then they like, they leave and they walk and they're like super happy. Like, Oh, I love living here. Like now this is my day, blah, blah, blah. And they're walking and there's like this paved over, uh, area and they walk to like this cafeteria where they like they're served dinner and it's like this crazy weirdly structured life.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
We really let it take over way more of our life than we normally would. So weirdly for us, working remote means we're like working a lot more and we're more engaged. But that's built on the idea of all of us being extremely motivated because we're this is like our company. Yeah, right.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
100 x more motivated than i tried to explain this to casey the other day i still am having this conversation with casey about how i don't just have a normal job like i have skin in the game i have a stake in everything i work on you know what i mean and it's beyond just like a financial stake it's like it's like it's like a part of identity right yeah oh yeah for sure we have you know hopes and dreams for it outside of financial success so we're extremely motivated so when we work remote it just like it's like supercharges how much
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
you know, it like infiltrates our lives. Now, if you remove the motivation, I think, you have the opposite problem, which is now it's very easy to like not do that, like not really do as much work, you know? So at these, I mean, a side effect of being large is it's really hard to motivate your workforce. So yeah, I can see why they struggle with that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I remember even when I was young, I remember my dad saying that, yeah, if you have someone in the office and they spend 40% of their time working, that's like very good. That's like, you should be really happy with that. And so, yeah, I think it's just accepted. There's just like, there's always going to be, again, this tension of, one party is trying to get as much out of it.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
The other party is trying to get as little, trying to put as little work out there as possible. And like you arrive at some middle ground.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, I mean, whatever it is, like, it's just... There's, like, room for... There's, like, wiggle room for you to, like, do more or less. And I think that's kind of what I'm asking.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Okay. But I think... The difference is there's no one for me to scam, you know, back when I was more in consulting. Yeah, I was playing that game of like, how can I build the most hours with the least amount of work? Of course, it's a natural incentive. Yeah, but it's like eating sugar, scamming the customer.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Like the whole community seems like they take care of everything for you. Like there's like a movie. It plays on designated eat area.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, and that's just a natural state of things. But now, when you're doing your own thing, there's no one to, like... There's no one to, like, pull that on, you know? You're just gonna... You're scamming yourself.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
All that stuff just goes away.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
That's a trade-off. You get to do that and then you lose a bunch of other stuff. But that's kind of why I don't like this whole... It feels entitled for people to be like, no, we should let us work remote. It's like, you're trying to have everything. You can't just be an employee and have the exact type of life you want and just have everything. So true.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And, like, especially, like, I especially don't care because, like, these are engineers at Amazon. Like, you're not... You're making a crazy amount of money for this stuff. And to be, like... Right. To have, like, this, like, weird, like, moral pedestal you were standing on about, like, working remote, like... Yeah, it does get kind of moral, doesn't it?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Also, the company is just made of employees like you that are making these decisions.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, it's exactly. It's there's a movie like that, right? Yeah, exactly. It's like one of those like type of weird movies. And it's, it's just so weird to me that going to, and like the, the dad met them after work at the cafeteria. It's like eating at a cafeteria is,
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. So was it price center to the market? Just for a mortgage will finally go down a little bit.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's so like, to me, it's a lot like, you know how like comedy used to be straightforward. Then like we invented sarcasm. Then we invented like double sarcasm and then triple sarcasm. You know, everything is like so layered now. It feels that way with the market also. It's like bad news is good news, but then no, we go back to good news is good news.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And now we're back to bad, you know, it just keeps slipping because it's like, Yeah. The possibility of a rate cut causes prices to go up because we're excited that money will be cheap again.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Or when it just happens, now the possibility is gone, so everyone's cashing in, so the prices go down. It's just like... But like that can circle, wrap around again. So yeah, the market's just so untethered from events.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I mean, I do, but I don't. All this stuff is just so funny because the technical problem we've had is that our economy is too good. Like that's the problem we've had over the past couple of years. And it's easy for people to like forget that because we always talk about it in a negative way. I never knew that. Could you please explain? It's too good. Well, like, why is inflation high?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's because there's a lot of money. It's because unemployment is low. It's because people are making a lot of money and spending a lot of it, and it's outpacing our supply. Oh, so what's wrong with inflation? Well, if you have an overheated economy, I mean, the problem is, like, you can exhaust... Like, okay, the root problem is we don't have enough stuff. That's the root problem. Oh.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
We don't have enough stuff for the amount of people that can, on paper, afford it. So what the Fed has been trying to do for the past couple of years is actually make our economy worse on purpose by making money less available by like targeting an increase. This is what's so funny. Like the president will always like tell unemployment numbers. I'll be like, oh, unemployment is like every month.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
as a family, as something's just weird about that, you know, it feels like there was something, this is like post-apocalyptic and they were able to survive. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
President's like record low unemployment. But on the flip side, the Fed is like, fuck, it's too low. They're trying to increase it. They're trying to increase unemployment. So, yeah. So the Fed is trying to lower the amount of consumption that's happening so we can have a smoother transition while like these supply gaps are fixed. Okay. And that's the state we've been in.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And it's been exaggerated in tech because, you know, that's where all like the future facing investment goes in. So when the Fed slows down, tries to like make the economy less overheated, the most overheated places have a drastic reaction.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
to consume. Yeah. And it's kind of like climate change. There's like a run, there's like runaway effects and feedback loops and you start to get into hyperinflation, which is like not recoverable.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. So it's, it's weird. So the past couple of years were like, like, you know, jobs with like the tech where like people are making less money and like there's less jobs and it's all this like negative economic sentiment. The actual problem is that it's, uh, it was overheated.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I mean, they're concerned about hyperinflation, which is there's like historical examples of what that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Okay. That was a concern. Yeah. I mean, we did print a lot of money. So we need to like let the economy absorb that slowly. Okay. Yeah. Is it working?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yes, it's surprising. So because you would think I've always felt like interventions were very ineffective or like had second order effects. And it's kind of hard to, you know, intervene in a complex system like this. But it feels like the Fed like kind of.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
orchestrated it pretty well like inflation is now down to where the goals are we didn't have like this runaway thing really again hard to say it was literally exactly what they did but yeah I mean we all feel bad about the tech sector but like what are we comparing it to like comparing it to like a hyperinflated 2020 2021 state wait what do we feel bad about we feel bad about the tech sector I didn't feel bad so I want to know what everyone else feels bad about that I missed no we're like oh there's less jobs and like hmm
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
you know like we people aren't able to make as much money but it's all relative to like this overheated state so yeah i don't know so i i don't know where anything's going i i just feel like whatever state we were in a couple years ago i don't we've had a contraction i don't know if it's going to keep going um i don't see how it gets back to that that state that original again if you're in the top x percent of people in this industry it largely doesn't affect you
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
No, it's just the same old stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
He was like, he was like, DHH was like, man, these YouTube comments are really nice. Usually there's people that, you know, reply calling me a moron. Moron. Moron. That's a good one. Which, you know, that, that wasn't the first time I had a single word tweet that said moron. I searched my history. I'm like, I think I've done this before and I've had a bunch of them.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. And more on reply. It's just the same old. I feel like, uh, there was this funny thing I saw yesterday, which I loved. So, you know how postmark, I don't know if you've been following all this postmark stuff, but they got acquired a bit ago. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
They had like some pretty crazy downtime and it's, it seems like a result of they got acquired and like companies been like stripped down and it's just not a good product anymore. Um, yeah. And the recent CEO like replies, replied to them being like, or like there was some like postmark downtime thing. And the recent CEO replied being like switch over recent blah, blah, blah. And he like links,
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
to something. He's like, just going to drop this here. And then Wes Boss replies being like, well, if you're just going to drop that there, you should also drop this there, which is like all of Resend's downtime issues. Because Resend was like ambulance chasing, basically like being like postmarkers down, use us.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
But then Resend is like a crazy amount of downtime, including stuff they haven't even like officially written up. Like there was one thing from a couple of weeks ago. I have grown to really dislike Resend. Resend and that company in general. They are just yet another company that are just spending stupid amounts of money on stuff that's irrelevant.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And at the end of the day, they're just building yet another wrapper of SES like...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's like you go and you're like, I'm going to found a company. And this is like a very big decision in your life. Like it's your career. You decided it's going to be a venture scale thing. Again, another big decision. If it works out, you're going to spend the next 10 years of your life working on this thing. And you're like, I'm going to build a thing that sends email.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
That's like what you're going to do of all that. And to me, it's just like, What a waste of resources, effort, whatever. And it's just, you know, people have done this before. There's a million email things like, yeah, just because you like wrap it in this fancy design.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
They have this like philosophy page about their, like this like really pretentious designed, like this sort of philosophy on like products and life. And like, we believe that documentation should be good. And we believe that they have a whole section on how they're like,
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. And it's just like, and then it just creates a ton of noise. So the other thing is going back to their downtime, the last downtime was because their AWS account, I'm actually make a quick little short about this later because I've been trying to figure out how to explain this.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
So their last downtime was because their, uh, SES sending got banned in us East one, which gives you the hint that they just have a single AWS account and they put all their customers in there, which is, if you are trying to be an infrastructure provider, I hope you at least understand why you shouldn't just use a single native account for this reason.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
But this brings up like a more root problem, which is, AWS built a one giant system and they solved the multi-tenant problem. You can go sign up for AWS. You can use a bunch of resources. It's okay if somebody else is also using AWS and they use it for something sketchy or they like have a ton of traffic. It doesn't affect you. They have built a multi-tenant system.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It has a lot of work and they solve that problem. Then you have these middlemen come in where they sign up for one AWS account and they put all their customers in it. And all of a sudden, all these problems come back. It's like, I'm assuming their stuff got blocked because one recent customer did something crazy and affected all of them. And they'll spend the next six months
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
like fixing this problem that was already fixed and then write a bunch of blog posts about, Hey, we've solved all this crazy stuff for you. It's like, no, you just, it just was already solved. Like this wasn't a problem. And so much of effort is going into this, this thing is kind of resolving these same problems again.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
They like converted a bunch of... Wait, was this literally like Disney? No. Because Orlando is famously or like Disney has famously these like planned... Oh, really? Back when, like, Walt Disney was still alive, like, they were doing all this crazy stuff. There's parts of Disney World in Florida that are, like, planned. Where you can live there? Yeah, it's, like, designed by Disney.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
The first layer is the layer that God works with.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
What's funny is during this Resend thing earlier, because everyone was looking for postmark alternatives and Resend kept coming up. Again, to me, it's extremely obvious when there's a company in this category. But apparently it's not super obvious. But you know who has a good nose for it is Levels. Because Levels was like, what the fuck?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Like, this just seems like another... He calls it VC pump and dump. Like, he had described it in a bunch of ways. So he has a great nose for it. But the thing that he's wrong about is he always frames it as the VCs are scamming you. No, the VCs are losing money on this too. I guarantee you they are going to, in the end, lose money on all of this. These are not like... Super smart.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
That's the one thing he's wrong about. No one's making money. It's just a waste of resources.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. So that was going on. That's been bugging me. Or it's been... I'm just tired of this same story over and over again.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
There were a lot of comments being like, oh, man. I'm sure a lot of people checked it out that they haven't before. And then they were like, oh, PHP looks like that?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
You don't listen to podcasts.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Okay, so the other thing, oh, what were we just talking about? PHP, Laravel, Lambos. Oh, yeah, so I've been doing a bunch of Elixir. I started streaming it, by the way.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Whatever. You said something about Tailwind, if I recall correctly.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, I'm stuck using Tailwind. So I'm using Elixir and Phoenix and Unlight. I'm trying to use all that stuff for the thing I'm building. But... I had a post yesterday about this. Um, so I've used Elixir for a very long time, so I know how to write Elixir. I'm like very familiar with it.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I've done some pretty like deep things with it, but it's my first time using like the batteries included, like out of the box experience with Phoenix and all that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And man, is it, it is not a good onboarding experience. Like there is just,
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
so much going on it uses like a crazy amount of macros so it's like really hard macros basically let you invent magic in the language basically yeah yeah and it's just like so hard there's like there's just so much thrown at you right away we're just spoiled with next js let's be honest i mean the meta frameworks have really taken it to another level
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
So I'm like, okay, these frameworks, I think they don't have this competitive pressure where they need to really focus on this progressive disclosure thing. So after using it for two days, I'm like, oh, the way to do this is I have to go pick up a book on...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
phoenix in my view and just read it which is fine like i've done that a bunch of times before but that's just not optimized for adoption whereas if you look at something like let's take astro whatever you know they're entering this like hyper competitive market they're way better about like here's like a really small starting point.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
You can kind of get a handle of things and you kind of progressively add stuff and like you kind of grow with it.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Is that the idea? I think that's like my explanation, like to explain the differences. I just think that... We've put in so much work to make it so SST is one file. That was so much work to get it to that point, years of refining and figuring that out. So you can start with a single file and then get more complex over time. And you start...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
a Phoenix app and it's like so many files and that's not even enough. You like start that, then it's like run all these generators to generate even more files. And it's just like, so much thrown at you. And it's so the different, like such a different mindset than what we're like, what we like spend all day thinking about.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
So yeah, I think these frameworks would benefit a lot if they like rethought their process of how can we make this feel like a natural progression where someone can tinker, learn, tinker, learn, as opposed to feeling like, I like learn all this stuff up front and then actually build my thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Cause I'm like, as someone that's like, like has used Elixir a lot, if I'm having a tough time getting through this, like that's, that's a good sign that it needs to be improved.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Do that. I just don't know what the alternative is. If you're doing a, uh, what are we doing in JavaScript?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I just don't do server-rendered JavaScript.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Right? Yeah, and to be honest, I learned all the domain-driven design stuff from Elixir. The Phoenix documentation on context is where I picked up a lot of stuff I do in JavaScript. Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about then. Yeah, I'm okay with the final set of files being large. I think I'm technically okay with that.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I understand there's a lot of capability in there, and that's why it's all there. If you say there's too many files, they're going to say, well, your framework can't do XYZ things, so...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
fine i'll give them that those files are necessary i just want to like get there over time like i want to be like okay i want to do events now and then i start to add the files related to events i don't want it's all like bootstrapped and set up and like kind of confusing me when i'm not interested like 90 of the stuff that's there so to me it's purely an onboarding initial adoption experience thing um
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Whether it's not too many files in there, I think that's kind of subjective because people will argue, well, I need those.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I'm just trying to be inflammatory. I'm just trying to not have annoying people reply to me with annoying thoughts. That's really all it comes down to. People have really stupid surface level replies to things. And if I'm not specific, I will get those. It's inevitable. I get them anyway.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I don't know. Well, I'm, I'm currently thinking about going in one or two directions. Like, yeah, so that's one option we described. But then when I think about like DHH and levels, I'm like, they're like way more reasonable than I am.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I'm like, should I just do that? Like lean in happier?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's crazy when real estate developers go beyond the house and they're like, okay, we got to like make this more attractive. So we're going to build these like businesses and everything is like kind of one cohesive thing. I definitely get the appeal. Like there's definitely like, like a lot of stuff just taken care of for you. But the reason I thought of this was it's like the forest.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, before you go for our event in New York, we need to figure out some stuff with you.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
not not not right now okay me and listen to talk to you a bunch about a few things because there's like the production of it itself is gonna be a little tricky so i just want to like talk through that to make sure that love it we're gonna have some staff at the venue oh staff like a butler like a no a major d i don't know what are staff i don't know no like like like tech people like tech
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, we have a DM with all you guys that nobody's replied to, so...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I don't even think Beacon checks that Slack. So I don't know how we're going to contact him. I don't even know if he's confirmed going. Like, it's going to be a mess.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
As soon as you start doing real things, you have to be a Slack company.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Thanks for the thumbs up and the heart.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Okay. All right. See ya. See ya.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Like when you do a centrally planned thing, it's just going to feel off, like no matter how hard you try. What's interesting is my neighborhood in New York battery park is,
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
it's somewhat of a planned community um more so than like any other part of new york uh because it used to be a landfill it's like the very tip right yeah it's like the tip of yeah okay it used to be a landfill so basically when they would yeah when they would like dig a landfill wow
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
new york city landfill they would dig up like other parts of new york to like build stuff they would just dump everything off the uh like off the coast and like in the hudson and eventually it was so much stuff that they just they like cut they like basically built new land wow by doing this they expanded the land out from digging all this stuff from the center of the island and they cut like a perfect rectangle
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Oh, it's like an actual hat that you buy from a place that makes hats.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
And it like actually like codified it and made it like stable ground. Uh, and then whole, all battery park is on a land lease. So like all the buildings are like taking, they're leasing the land from the government. And it's like the semi plan thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Um, but it's actually, it's, it's, I would say for a plan thing, it came out pretty good, but it has the exact same problem, which all plan things have, which is, uh, it's just brittle. There's, uh, there's not really like the right type of businesses. Like they're kind of in like weird locations.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Like the natural emergence of them didn't pop up where for what it has, like it has really great parks, like right on the water. Like it's, it's super nice in a lot of ways, but it's totally, it feels totally different from the rest of New York where you can just like walk one foot and like run into like a great restaurant or like you can kind of get everything you need at arm's reach.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It just feels like something's like a little off.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, we're going to go to assuming you're coming because you said we're going to New York in November and I'll try to show you a better time.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
We're going to get there. So we're going to probably help us book everything next week. November 15th to the 20th is a plan. 15th to the 20th.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's usually the case, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Well, I ask you what have you been doing because you've basically fallen off the face of the earth. No one has heard from you.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Have you seen those videos? There's, like, there's a few cases of this. It's, like, it'll be someone that just grew a forest in 10 years or something. And have you seen them walk around and plant trees? No. It's really crazy. They'll have, like, a sack full of, like, little saplings.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Does it make, like, you guys use React Native for this?
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
No, not Flutter. Like, before React Native came out, there were all these, like, app development frameworks that were just around the idea of, like, shipping web views. But, like, there's a bunch of them, right? Like, I'm trying to remember. I don't know. I'm blanking on any of the names, but...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
So React Native is more oriented around, oh, we're going to help you build a native app just in a different way. So I can see why maybe doing WebView stuff in there, they just don't care that much about because the whole point of doing React Native is to not do web stuff, I guess. I'm blanking on like, was it like Capacitor? Oh, I have heard of that. There's like a, oh, Ionic.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Ionic is the one I'm trying to remember. Ionic? Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
oh man yes anyway yeah probably a new way to build and ship for mobile oh my word if this is better and easier and i just could have saved a lot of hair great again i don't know anything about this i've never used it but positioning wise it seems more related to like just straight up using a web view yeah i don't know how that relates to literally just pointing to an existing web app
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Which is probably what you're doing, right? You're not even like... Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Or in some cases, the same pages, but... I think that actually would still work because this just injects certain APIs and you can just access them. Yeah, because I feel like if anyone has spent time figuring out the problem that you had, it's these people, which is because they're helping you build, ship a hybrid app or whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
I saw the craziest demo recently.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Okay, I mean, I can't share too much because I'm just going to blow up their...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah, it was a really cool bringing together of several technologies. One of them being React Native for web. The reason being is like, you just want a single code base and you want to deploy the two, three platforms. I think in theory, that's like, I can, I actually really considered it at one point for something.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Why do I know this? And in, like, one motion, they'll, like... they'll do something with some kind of tool and they'll like plant the tree. And then they're doing like one every like couple of seconds.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. But it depends on what you're building. If what you're building. So for you guys, it's like stat muse is like, the golden property. And then this is like, it's like a side thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Probably Snapchat. Right. I don't remember them doing web stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Yeah. Or like they're all equal. I don't know. I can see some productivity stuff being in this case where you're equally expecting people to use it.
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
on the go as at home like i mean this the simplest example is like a shopping list app oh i see that's like you can see how like all three are kind of equal and it's not like you're gonna be doing crazy web stuff yeah okay i just can't imagine leaving behind things like next.js when i could build a website with next.js that's just insane but man i can't wait for you guys to see this this new thing uh
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
Next.js killer confirmed? Is that... No, it's just... I think we're finally just rotating back to stuff that's actually...
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
useful like spa stuff spending four years on yeah i mean it's it's just like a great example of again using this react native for web thing and just having a single code base that works across all three plus a few other things that make it all nice can you give me a hint about who it's who's doing this is it someone we've heard of i've heard of i don't get out much yeah okay yeah i'll tell you after okay that's for the the patreon subscribers no i'm just kidding
How About Tomorrow?
Working Remote, AWS Lags, and Dax Explains the Economy
It's funny. Okay. So you've been working on this app and it sounds like it's been hell. Are you done? Do you feel like you're... I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of other issues that come up.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
You get paid for overtime.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
The thing that it's, it's revealing to me, it's actually pretty funny. Uh, It makes React nice. Like, I'm using it with Solid, and I'm just like, huh. Oh. React a little more. So I'm understanding historically what has happened. React does not have good state management in it. What are you talking about? There's Redux. Redux is amazing. I'm just kidding.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It does everything native and there's like a clusterfuck of ways to do state management. So whenever you compared React to Solid, you were actually comparing React compared to Solid plus state management. Because Solid has state management built in. Like a really good state management built in. So the gap was massive.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
But now you add in zero and zero is like the best state management that's ever existed because it's very queryable, syncs to your server, like syncs to like totally solved the whole question of state. So now if you're comparing React plus zero to solid plus zero, the gap starts to feel a lot narrower. So I'll probably still continue to use solid, but.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's like the front-end just becomes so stupid now. It really just comes down to styling. Zero plus any front-end framework, all you're spending your time on is CSS, which sounds like hell, but it just means all this other stuff went away. You mean Tailwind.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I thought Tailwind was CSS.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's been interesting. Front end becomes really, really stupid. It's like a really, really dumb effort now with something like this.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, yeah. I would say technically, yes. I think the idea of React is it diffs your UI. The idea with Solid is it diffs your data. And diffing your UI is inefficient, like all this stuff, but it is simpler in the sense that you're never going to be diffing too much data. It's kind of hard to explain, but the React integration with...
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
with Xero was a lot simpler and is a lot more straightforward and it kind of avoids all these problems. The solid integration with Xero is going to be a lot more complicated. It's going to be technically better, but it just doesn't feel as like... a natural fit. In the end, they're both going to be the same. I guess it's all going to be technically better performance wise.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's like I just don't I just don't want to.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
But there's a complexity to it that just doesn't exist with React and totally arbitrary. I think this like randomly turned out this way. But yeah, I mean, either way, I think the point here is I'm finally going to be able to look at front end and be like, this is just My brain can be totally off when I'm working on front end. All the annoying stuff is gone.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's one stack dot dev.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
XeroSync. XeroSync.dev? Yeah. Oh, okay. Here's a funny question I have for you. So Xero.com is owned by Google, I think. Zero.com. Really? Yes. And the people working on Xero would like that domain name one day. Yeah. And they were wondering if Google could do them a solid. They said no. They want them to pay fair market value. That's what Google said.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
What do you think fair market value for Xero.com is?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
What's your ballpark?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah. Okay. So that's what I said too. I said one to 2 million. Yeah. They actually want 500 K for it.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That's not bad for zero.com.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I mean, what's Google care?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That's what I thought. Cause like, uh, cause Aaron worked at Google and like, maybe they'll invest in the company at some point. It's just good in the domain, but yeah. Yeah. It's so weird.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Does big companies, uh, just nerds show up just a bunch of dorks like accounting nerds and they're like we can't just give away property in the house nothing else to focus on besides being like we technically did this the correct way you know yeah i guess so that's annoying yeah uh i i will say the one framework i do love the pool ball as a logo that's that's creative I didn't even notice that.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Wow, that is clever. Oh, and it rotates? Yeah, when you hover over it.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
They nailed it with the little pool ball. And they got the one NPM package.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
npm packages are a little less impressive because you can just like email and be like hey i want this and if nobody okay so on twitter uh somebody was like oh i own the zero npm package so i tagged aaron like the ceo of the company that makes uh zero and i was like oh just sell it to him because like this would be really cool if they have the zero package and in my head i'm like
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Magic is gone for you.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I would maybe give it away for free. It's not a big deal. Maybe $1,000 or $2,000. I think he asked for... After bringing him down, he wants $50,000. I'm like, this is so stupid because this is never going to be liquid ever again. That's the thing with domain names. There's a once-in-a-lifetime moment where someone is willing to pay you for it.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And if you don't make the deal happen, who else is going to show up later?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's just a freaking NPM package you're not using. Come on.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I feel like I've had this with a few things now and they've all eventually like had a peak. So I kind of knew this isn't like an infinite thing is I always feel the same.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I know other...
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
other ecosystems are really strict about it because we were trying to get the python sst thing on whatever crap python thing is and i went and read their stuff yeah and like they literally don't give you a way to transfer it to someone else you have to like write to them and explain why and there's like a very narrow set of reasons and ours even ours of someone being like we're not using this package anymore and this company wants to use a name that's not a valid one not a valid one wow
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Just it's just like maintainer transfer of the same project. You can't like use it for a new project because they're like really obsessed with keeping intact, like the history of the packages and stuff, not breaking things, which I get.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Maybe that one thing is fulfilling you properly. I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
How does it feel? Does it feel good? Yes. I always imagine it would feel really good.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Or like, if I'm just, I'm like, I'm like feeling an emotion right now.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Maybe she meant it differently. I can see that. That makes sense. It's not like an on-off thing. It's like a...
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I think I'd probably agree more with your wife. I don't think I ever felt like... I don't feel stuff. And then I do feel stuff to me. I always just felt like, yeah, it's like always going.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Nice, nice words usage.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Maybe you're just stupid.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Not that like we're so smart, but like Liz describes me as very simple.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yes. She also describes me that way.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That's true.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No. Yeah, I know. I guess what you're saying is something different.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Actually, no, I don't. I actually don't. To me, that feels really tragic.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I wouldn't know.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
So it wouldn't be tragic. I do. I do know. So I see like, you know, I do see this like more objective scale of things. Yeah. And it feels really sad to like, you know, live one life and not understand as much as you can.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
maybe i guess yeah i don't really have a lot of anxiety so i'm not like paying the price of that i guess interesting you're just a simple man what does she mean when she says you're a simple you're just simple i think it's like i'm like really like even keel like i like just i'm kind of like the same every day and i don't really have moods as much or i'm pretty straightforward with like things i want in the physical world like you know
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
You can't remember anything before.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
in one of those really modern cube houses. Sorry. That's basic. That's different than simple. These are very different words. Oh, that's different.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Because you're basic, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
We're on two ends of a spectrum. What else happened this past couple? There was another thing I wanted to bring up, but I forgot.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
A 45 minute one. Yeah. And they're being really nice to us all of a sudden.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And then make videos about it. That's actually not what happened. Some of it, I think, is. I think the video series is very... I can see how it connects to each other. But I'm trying to think how much of this I can say because I don't want to get anyone in trouble. Someone did finally reach out after all this time.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That's true. Yeah. It's kind of wild. I just can't, I just can't get the thought out of my head that it took us 12 years to learn basic math. I saw those before, but just like, it's so mind blowing to me. I'm like 12 years. Like that's as long as I've been professionally programming. I've learned all of everything I know in that time.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I was thinking we just start completely fresh with a new topic.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I don't even think it's someone you know.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I'm very skeptical.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No, no relation to us or anyone. Okay, okay. And they were like, Hey, you know, I think he's like, I personally think a lot of the stuff that you guys work on, like makes a lot of sense. And like all this stuff is difficult, like would love to figure out how we can like remove
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
all the like a lot of the hacks that exist in open next like what can we do differently or what can we what can we fix yep uh and i was like great and i like made it clear that like our goal is to like reduce the scope of open text to zero so it just doesn't need to exist anymore yeah like even just them talking to us and us not having reverse engineering everything is like 100x better than
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
current state of things yeah yeah just like clearly there was no actual problem here besides the fact that like you had two options open next exists you can be really upset about it and try to like create a narrative that it's like this evil made up thing or just be like yeah thanks for working on this stuff great thumbs up
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And if that's what they did, this would have just been totally fine, which is, I think, what is happening now. But I think things are headed in a pretty good direction now.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No, in that video, Lee posted he does mention SST and Open Next.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah. And he sent me a message about it.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No, I think they lost something. Oh, okay. They lost a war or the battle. Yes, I think that there was a time when they could literally create any narrative they wanted and they would just post it on Twitter. And you can see that approach suddenly backfiring every single time they try it. And I think this is a good correction.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And now they're now a boring company that just makes a boring product and nobody really... It's not this like noise... energy suck thing that they, they were for a very long time. So to me, I feel like things are now in a good place.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Nice. Okay. They required beating them over and over and burning out people. So they just stopped, uh,
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Book your flight.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Book your flight.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Literally everything. Besides us.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I'm not the only one? I don't think anyone's booked their flight.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
A month in advance is a normal amount of time, Adam.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, well, the reason we need everyone to book is so we can calculate what we spent, so we know what we have left over, so we know how much we can blow on our Airbnb bill.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Oh, it's even worse than you think. It's so much worse than you think. Ready? You've heard of New York Penn Station, right? Sure. New York Penn Station.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's like one of the main train stations in New York that go to like New Jersey, Philadelphia, Connecticut, like everywhere. New York Penn Station. New York Penn Station. Got it. There is a stop in Newark called Newark Penn Station. No. Why would they do that? And do you know how often people get out at the wrong station? They get out right before they get to New York and they're like, shit.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
every single time i'm because people used to have to oh so we had the other situation when people would visit us they don't have to get out at newark penn station and take the path over because the path drops them off right at my apartment no so you're telling them to get off at newark get off at newark not new york it's gonna be confusing new york oh that's and it's always a stressful thing yeah it's so bad so avoidable so dumb new york
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Also, it's doubly stupid because New York itself is not an original name. It's York with the word new in front of it. And they're like, what if we just said it real fast? Newark.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
You gotta preserve the viewshed. That's what the... It's called preserving the viewshed.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
A view shed is a geographical area that's visible from a location. It includes all surrounding points that are in line of sight within that location. So we have friends that own 180 acres in Virginia. And they're very restricted on what they can build because there's laws around preserving the view shed. So it's really beautiful. I wish we had those laws. Yeah. From that area.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
So it's very easy to screw it up. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Not physically write. Well, that's what I was gonna say.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's because preserving the view shed. I've just realized like when you're young, you're like, what the hell are all these wrong with all these people? These NIMBYs, not my backyard people that are like stopping progress. And then you just witness yourself become... Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I don't know. Like you got to represent your own interests, right?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That changes.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
You should show up there with a, with a bomb vest and be like, yeah,
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I can say it too, right? No, no, no. This is great. I'm happy that you made that joke. I just don't know what consequences you're going to pay for it.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Maybe it's worse. I don't know. I think just explaining this more is making it worse. Okay. I should stop. I'm going to stop.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's happening. It's fine. You're not on Twitter. Like if you don't ignore, if you just ignore it, it's basically not true.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Okay, so I have no idea how to play this, but I've been like secondarily involved in some of this, not like very, very loosely. When I lived in New York, there was this extremely convenient pedestrian footbridge that crossed over the road. Uh, I could get to it within a minute of my apartment. I would cross it and the subways were on the other side. So very, very, very convenient. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It turns out this was a temporary bridge they put in place. It wasn't a permanent one, even though it's been around for years. The reason it was temporary was it technically didn't adhere to like ADA stuff. Like it didn't have a ramp. It didn't have an elevator, stuff like that. Uh, so they built this crazy expensive new one that was like a block of
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
down way more inconvenient way way way way more inconvenient for you but they committed to doing it for me and for everybody it like totally changed like the the way that you would travel around this neighborhood like that yeah the dynamics like totally changed like it's not just it wasn't just a little further away from you you mean like it was more inconvenient for everybody
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
for everyone yeah you guys like go through this you have to kind of go through this parking lot it just wasn't like a great situation but they committed to doing it a while ago they spent a bunch of money on it and they're like yeah then we're gonna tear down the old bridge and we're just like just leave the old one also and there's this guy that tried super super super hard
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Okay, actually, no, hang on. As a kid, I liked the third one the best because Voldemort was not involved and I was super afraid of Voldemort as a child.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
uh to make arguments for it and it was funny how far he went he literally sat there and counted the people that crossed like for a day oh interesting yeah he was like he was like basically 50 of them will go to the new bridge 50 the other 50 are probably trying to go north so they'll like go just cross at the intersection on the north side which is a very busy intersection.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It doesn't have a footbridge. Uh, so we're going to see, he's claimed we're going to see an increase in like accidents and potentially death. Wow. Yeah.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
evil person yeah so he like came with all these like crazy crazy arguments ultimately lost because just one of those bureaucratic things of like they committed to this plan and if they don't do this it seems like they wasted millions of dollars on this other yeah thing yeah and that's what it feels like it feels like is anyone in history won something like this like could i actually go in there no there has changed oh really oh
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Okay, so when we're in New York, I'm going to take you guys around this neighborhood. It is like one of the most pleasant places in New York in the world.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
But the third one has like... I don't know.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Oh, and in the world. Yeah, I misspoke. Got it. And the person behind it, Jane Jacobs, wrote a whole book on her old theory on what makes great neighborhoods. But that was almost... That neighborhood was almost destroyed because they were going to build this crazy highway through it. And she organized a ton of... just protest and push back on it. And it worked.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And that neighborhood over the next 50 years actually became, again, turned into this like crazy nice thing. Okay. So not only did it work, she was also right about it. And now her book is like everywhere.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I know these words from being a kid when it's like... Just say they're wrecking havoc on... They're coming into your backyard and they're kicking your children.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And just see if they call me on it.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Just come up with the most plausible lie. The air quality... Do you like kicking children? You've been monitoring the air quality and it's been drastically reduced when these trees were...
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Oh, sorry.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Realistically, I don't think you or I are going to be successful at this, because I think the only way to be successful is to be one of those people with no shame, but to an impressive degree. If you're fighting government bureaucracies, I feel like this is...
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
For anyone who doesn't know that.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
The Dementor's Kiss and stuff is like really twisted. It's like worse than killing someone, you know? That's interesting. Maybe not to a kid.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's got to be really annoying. It's got to be super, super, super annoying.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Put up a really embarrassing billboard on your property that faces where this new development would be. Something pornographic and horrible.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
This is what it takes. You're fighting against a developer who's going to make millions and millions and millions from this.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
At least a couple of millions they're going to make.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I mean, I have the same, I mean, I complain about my neighborhood in the same way. So if you remember my backyard, on the other side, it has been this giant empty lot. The whole time I've been here in Miami, it's been a big empty lot. And we looked it up the other day and when it was sold, it was sold with diagrams of like a giant apartment building, like huge. And I'm like, is that the plan?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Oh, no. Because if that's the plan, there's going to be a huge apartment building just overlooking my backyard.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Where I'm just, like, walking around in my underwear all the time.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I, like, I'm going to increase that to, like, make it more annoying for the people that, yeah. So, like, the only way I stop this is to, like, play dirty, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
The second one scared me the most. The second one really scared me.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, like, dump radioactive material over the fence into the other side or something. Oh, jeez.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
uh let's try the bomb vest thing i'm telling you i think okay so here's another thing i don't know if i told you about this i'm gonna say it publicly now which means i probably can never do it because it's incriminating uh next door to me is a more reasonably sized apartment building and they have like a parking lot and the parking lot is like basically neighboring my backyard at some point they complained that it was too dark in the parking lot and they needed like lights
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
But for some reason, the response to this was to go crazy overboard and set up these gigantic floodlights that are on all the time. And one of them shoots a beam of light right into these two big double doors in my bedroom that are glass, through there into my bedroom. It doesn't really bother me. We have blinds and it's not the worst thing, but it would be better if that wasn't there.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
uh we're friends with someone that lives in that building because he brings his dog over sometimes and he was like yeah just wait till it's dark and take a bb gun and shoot out the thing oh you're saying you haven't done it
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
it would be so yeah it would be so easy because like there's a gap in my fence where i can just go prone oh wow shoot i wish you would and film it it's just one of these things where i'm like there's no way they're ever gonna replace it like there's no way they're gonna like be like oh because there's other lights in the parking lot that you know are fine they don't need this one interesting
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
The second one is the... chamber of secrets where all the kids are like everyone in the school is like getting frozen or petrified or whatever yeah right i mean from the movies yeah right it's like really like it's like extremely like uh like racial basically you know they're killing all the non-pure blood people oh the muggles yeah can i say that is that okay to say that um okay yeah
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Liz's dad has a BB gun. He uses all the time to kill iguanas.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
He shoots them out of their trees. Yeah.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
getting good at hitting small things with a bb gun that sounds fun yeah yeah yeah so i just imagine like this like tactical operation where i'm like really stealthy and i like yeah you're in like a ghillie suit and you're laying in your bushes aiming a little bb gun through the fence or like go on the roof of my house yeah yeah go prone yeah
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No, we haven't talked about it.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That's a great idea. That would be so fun. So in New York, there is a place that we've gone to more than once, which is... You said something, but... It is like this crazy warehouse they set up to be like really creepy, like these little tunnels, corridors, and it's really hard to see. It's dark, not a lot of lighting. And it's, so it's laser tags, not paintball.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I think I paintball in another area, but it's laser. But the thing here is they hire actors to play zombies. Oh my word. Yeah. And so there's different modes. It can be like you against zombies when you shoot them like their shit lights up and they like fall down. Yeah. This is New York. There are a lot of
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
they get into actors do they get into it like yeah so we played this version this was for my friends my friend got married and we went here for his life you know sounds like a good time i mean and so the mode we played was it was two it was like two teams right it's like one you're playing the other team laser tag the third team is the zombies that are attacking everyone okay and
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
every round we were like up the intensity up it up it up it up it up it by the you're telling them to yeah yeah they were just grabbing us just slamming us against the wall and stuff it was so fun it was so good like you're living a zombie movie they make these crazy noises and like it's like really really intense oh man the thing that's
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
interesting is i remember the first time we went where it was just like us versus zombies it was really scary for like the first minute yeah and then something and and what's interesting is it's only happened to some people uh something flipped only the psychopaths
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
yeah yeah so they put everyone's brains where it just was not scary at all and it was just so like you were just focused on the the mission like the scariness of it just like dissipated you were just like the adrenaline kicked in and you were just like in the zone you were gonna kill those yeah yeah just like a soldier in battle yeah so i felt good about that i was like okay if i am in a situation that's stressful like it's gonna be scary but like it'll flip and i'll yeah the adrenaline will kick in yeah yeah what's the first some people didn't kick in bullet whizzes by it didn't kick in
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
they just went panic mode and started hiding yeah they were kind of like behind us the whole time um yeah it's super fun and there was these funny situations where like i walked into a room and i saw oh because the mode where you get to zombies you're also it's also an escape room at the same time you're trying to solve a puzzle there's like you have to discover these like clues and find things combining those two things that's fun
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, I saw my friend looking in a barrel. I walked over to look in a barrel, and I turned around, and I was trying to see what else was there. But it wasn't my friend. It was a zombie pretending to look in a barrel. And he turned around and started to grab me, and it was pretty... What a cool job.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
And they like, don't, they're not like, Oh, I hate this. I have to do this. Cause you know, I'm like kind of do be an actor or whatever, but they're like, they get super into it. Yeah. Yeah. They have to make sure that one's a great time. Yeah. So that with a GoPro. Ooh. Yeah. Okay. Could be pretty fun.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yes, because I've read Harry Potter like the millions and millions of other people my age.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, I don't either. Do you agree with this? But a lot of people still do. Liz writes all the time. OK, so there's like some people get joy from physically writing. No, I just like some people are like note takers that like process things that way. So you maintain important to learn in school. I don't I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I think with some of the classic thing of like it doesn't seem to make sense, but just throwing everything out. You might like. Just miss some value of something. So it's a well-roundedness. I don't think we need to go and do cursive like me growing up. We spent a lot of time learning cursive. We got rid of that, didn't we? Yeah. But being able to write somewhat with your hands is probably useful.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
There is a vacuum cleaner, and Zuko is destroying something. It doesn't bother me. I just wondered. We had, like, an extra bed of his in here, and it's crazy how much echo reduction it was providing. Our cat peed on it, and so we threw it out. Ooh, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
and she pooped on it also she was very upset once you go okay that's some spite right there yeah so i i've talked to liz about this topic because i'm like okay if you like drill it down it's like read write uh and all the way up to like right before you learn calculus i think that's like stuff that very practical yeah she has this other perspective which is kind of interesting which is
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
If you step back and you think about like you are the United States, you're trying to like establish a culture and like you want your citizens to care about X, Y, Z things. I think that's where some of the more like fluffy feeling stuff can fall into, like learning history or like reading some of those. Like I hated a lot of the assigned reading that we had.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I loved reading, but I hated the assigned reading. There are like certain values and dynamics that,
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
that it's just good to know that like okay all citizens of the us have like at least been exposed to some of these things yeah i don't know what exactly those things will be but i think it's easy to not factor like that is a part of school like you want to just make sure that people in this country have like been exposed to similar things or understand understand similar contexts yeah i guess i get that but yeah i don't know what those things would be but i would imagine if you're trying to like think about like what makes a great
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I want to make sure I have the right thing. Avatar is a TV show? Not the movie. There's another thing called Avatar. Oh, a totally different thing?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Airbender.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
That's Avatar?
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Avatar, The Last Airbender. Yeah, it's a full name of the show.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Okay. But in that show, there's like a war going on and you see all these really interesting dynamics that can pop up under a situation where the war is going on that teach you about human nature and like the flaws in it, like flaw thinking, the complexity behind certain things. So...
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I don't necessarily think that the average education, the education we had when we learned history, that it was like taught. in a way where that's what we got out of it. I think maybe it, like, boiled down to stupid, like, facts about the war. But I would imagine the reason you generally would want to learn about stuff like wars is to, like, understand those things.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I mean, the thing that I always imagine is, or imagine, remember, early on in that show, there's a situation where there's a town being oppressed by the invading force, and the main characters help out one of the oppressed people. The way they help them out is technically illegal. And the oppressed person turns them in.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
So just understand those dynamics and thinking about like, is that person bad? Because they just like screwed people that help them. But then you realize like under these scenarios, like people kind of do these things that, you know, seem bad just because the situation is so crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
So kind of understanding things like that, I think is a good education. I guess I don't necessarily know if schools like do that with history, but I can see how you could.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah. Pivot topics. I was looking at some of the stuff that happened in the past couple of weeks, in tech at least, and there have been a few things. There's a new JavaScript framework.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
There actually is. It's actually built on top of Xerox.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's called one.
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New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No. No relation to void zero.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, that's their AI thing.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
No, this is built by Nate. So if you know Tamagui, it's like this CSS library. But the thing with one is he really focused on building, like how far can you push the idea of a single code base that works on native and web?
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
It's hard for me to care about.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
This is a React Native side of it, which I don't think... Well, I guess you technically... You have a React Native wrapped web view. Yes. But it does look pretty good. And because it uses Xero, you have like... Like your data just...
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
across our devices like i can see how for a certain type of product this is going to give a really good experience okay um so that was like making some ways but i think the more for me at least the more interesting part of there is the zero part which uh yeah i'm still really excited about i've been playing with it for the past two weeks what's what's the first thing you're gonna like put out there built with it a radiant
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, I've also am like shifting my relationship with it too. And I talked about this a while ago, but... I was like, I wish Twitter had a write only mode and like trying to like, cause to me, it's still like a very useful thing of trying to exercise like ideas I haven't like write them. So I'm like, I never want to give that part up. But I don't really need to be reading. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
oh yeah nice yeah so we've been working on like switching radiant from repo cache to zero uh is that already i know i've seen the repo but is it okay no it will be soon once we like make that shift yeah and and zero is like officially allowed to be public uh but it's gonna be really cool i think that my long-term bet not bad but like the long-term bet not mine just like the way i understand a bet is uh
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
I can see how zero just becomes like a standard part of architecture. It's like you have an application server, you have a database, historically you had a cache, but now maybe the cache gets replaced with zero. So people will start to think of it on the same level as Redis. And cloud providers offer like AWS Managed Zero, like a native version for it. Oh, okay.
How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Yeah, exactly. Like kind of like AppSync, but good. Yeah. So I'm pretty excited and it's, it's looking really good. Obviously love that.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
So back then, this was... I know what you're going to say. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah, exactly. It's like, then they're going to have clear plus plus or something. And it's like, cause I've also even seen the TSA pre-check. Like, I mean that one, they check you less. So it's always going to move faster. I've seen a lot of people.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. And then sometimes like the airport's busy and they redirect everyone to the same way.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I mean, I think it sounds good. I don't know. Okay. Well, I'll keep trying. Yeah. Clear still feels worth. It's definitely, like, on the cusp of, like... It's maybe only saving you a handful of minutes, but it still feels like it's not completely useless, but there have been times where... You get to feel super pretentious.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm better than all of you. I don't feel good in those situations. I feel like... any moment some that like the wealth gap in America is going to reach some breaking point. And then my people are going to burst out that line and like murder me. That's how I feel.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I think society always needs to be at this perfect tension zone. And then it like, it recorrects through situations like that. Uh, yeah, I think there was a lot of thoughts about, about like the murder and it being like good or bad. Like obviously murder is like a moral and like, it's a bad thing. But I think the interesting part is like all rules of society are,
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It's like a Karen category of person. But I feel like it's more specific than that. A couple of days ago, I got two issues open being like, do not use JWTs. They're insecure. And there's a second one that was like, do not use local storage. They're insecure. And this person just like linked a bunch of like random ass security articles.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
they're all like enforced by violence effectively. Like the reason I don't go and murder someone is because the government is like, I will violently take you and put you in a box. If you do that, I think the like equilibrium we reach is if society is generally doing well enough, that threat of that government violence keeps most people in check.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
If the government gets too oppressive, what happens is that threat is what, Not that bad compared to the day-to-day conditions. And you will have these situations happen where people make that trade-off. They're like, I'm just going to commit violence because stuff is so bad that I'm not really afraid of the punishment. And you see this a lot with rioting. I think this topic comes up a lot.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
They're like, it's bad to loot. We all agree. It's bad to smash open a store and steal stuff. You're not doing anything for a cause. You're not like... it's just like you being selfish in that moment. But from a systemic point of view, like it's almost good that some percentage of people do that because it's like a feedback mechanism to the government.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Like you can't, if you like start to like go over the line, like, yes, we have a democracy, but like, even in democracy, the governments can go over the line and things you'd have to deal with all these random things happening, like someone murdering someone or someone, you know, looting stores. So on an individual level, it's like, yeah, like that's a wrong thing to do.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
But from like a system, from a system point of view, like it's all like enforced through violence in some way.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
not CEOs in general, just they're like, it's clear that the state of our healthcare system is continuing to degrade. And yeah, it's just like, I think people struggle to hold both things in their head. Myself included. It's like, it's wrong to murder someone a hundred percent. Like I'm not endorsing the murder at all. And like that person who did that should go to jail.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
That doesn't mean that like, everything's fine. Like, Oh yeah. Right. You know, that was technically wrong. So everything's fine. It just means that what we should look at is, wow, stuff is getting so bad that we're getting these types of things popping up where someone is not afraid of going to jail for life to like, you know, push forward this cause.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And that's the type of stuff that like, I think it does serve as a data point to the whole system. And, I'm sure like every healthcare CEO is like really freaked out now. Oh yeah. Oh sure. If I was a CEO or involved in an insurance company at all, I would be really freaked out. And like how far I push might be tempered a little bit now.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm worried about that. Copycat stuff happens all the time, and that would be pretty bad.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
yeah and their view of things is so binary and whenever it comes to like i found this anytime you get in the category of like compliance or security or everything people are so proud to like know the know a rule they're so proud to know a rule you shouldn't do this and then whenever some situation comes up there's like blanket apply the rule uh the rule says you shouldn't do this
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I think historically, that's been the pattern. It's been a ruling class and everyone else. And there's been moments where... everyone else had it good enough that they weren't willing to literally risk their lives to kill the ruling class. And as soon as that equilibrium is, is breaks, like that's kind of what happens.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And I think the reason America is really, really successful is because it's a democracy where at least you feel, even if things aren't great, at least you feel like you have some amount of control over, uh,
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
who the leader is and just that feeling is enough to prevent these like rebellious moments which leads to stability which leads to a good system so it's not literally the fact that like we're electing good leaders it's just a fact that we're not dealing with this cycle of like bad leader, rebel group comes up, you know, kills bad leader. Now the rebel leader is a leader.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And then he also becomes bad. And then it just like loops over and over and over.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. I mean, it just comes down to quality of life. Like if people's quality of life is good, that's just always a mitigating factor. Like they're willing to deal with, okay, stuff isn't perfect, but you know, I have a pretty decent life. I'm not going to throw it all away to go after this.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
the answer is just it's like it's not really what people say it's what people do um so you always have two forces you're gonna have i mean both forces are always trying to get as there's a you know people more in power than people less in power and both sides are trying to get away with as much as possible and we land at some point and the reality is this quality of life compared to like 100 years ago is like outrageous even though it sucks in a lot of ways like
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
it like, you know, tempers people a ton. It's different when you're like, literally don't have any food and you like live outside, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
So by and large, like how many people can you imagine literally being like, I'm going to go like commit terrorism effectively? Yeah. I mean, I don't know about everything, so I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I say, OK, like imagine how bad it would have to be for like a significant group of people to be like, yeah, I'm willing to risk myself, my family, everything around you. Yeah. For this type of thing. I'm not saying it can't happen, but and the point is like when it does happen in these situations, it's like a data point back into the system.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I mean, who's to say, depending on if somebody else won. But a lot of those people are like, people love role playing also. It's actually just the same as this person submitting this PR. Yeah. Really, it's the exact same psychology. Really?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
They have this identity and they just want to live in this fantasy where they... I feel like submitting a PR is a little different than walking around with a rifle. I feel like there's a different psychology there. I'm saying it's the same exact thing. Really? It's all like an identity thing, right? They're actually romanticizing a civil war, effectively.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
So he, you know, he wrote this thing about JWTs not being valid and they're like, you should never use them. But security is not like that. And compliance is also not like that. Anyone that actually works in these spaces knows that there's always a spectrum of insecure to extremely secure.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It's not really about... No one is pushed to the point of like... the thing I was talking about before, actually throwing it all away, they're kind of fantasizing about the concept of we could do a civil war. I would be one of the people that rebels.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah, I think it can go both ways. I think some of those are just... like stupid escalations. Some of them, but I'm not going to say all, like I'm sure maybe some of them are just someone was pushed to a point where they're like, I don't care. This is, I'm like not gonna, you know, I'm down to throw it all away. But yeah, I do think that civil war thing is like a little like,
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
there's like a weird romantic the people when people talk about it it's like really romantic uh so i it's to me it doesn't feel like it's coming from a weird thing to be yeah i mean that's a funny thing like being a romantic person you can do this in like so many different aspects of life so it's not like what people would imagine oh the type of person that's romantic is like this but uh
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
A lot of very stereotypically... If you imagine a stereotype of someone that's walking around with a rifle thinking about Civil War, you have a stereotype image of their head. That person is often a very romantic person. They tend to romanticize the way life works and the way things are.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I think from knowing you, I would say you're probably not a very romantic person. Yeah, I'm not. I just said that.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm saying I think your assessment is correct. It's not like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see what you're saying.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And then you pick somewhere on that spectrum that balances the security aspect of what you're trying to do with, there's always a good product trade-off. Okay. Yeah. So he wrote this in like, as it was a binary thing and he, It's wrong because I want to kind of appeal to authority. Like every single, like a bunch of office of service companies uses the exact same model.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I don't know. It's... And again, just... Are you a romantic person? Yeah, I think so. Oh, interesting. I tend to fantasize a lot and like view things in very like dramatic like...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
movie like ways um and again i just to be clear when i say romantic it's not like related to like you know a relationship yeah not just relationship it kind of like permeates everything like it's yeah exactly you have a romantic view of the world and of life yeah So I would say definitely, I'm not like the most, but it's like clear that I am to some degree. Yeah. Um, I feel like I'm dramatic.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It's different than dramatic though. Right. I think that's close. I think if you're dramatic, it's oftentimes can be, if you feel like you're dramatic, then you probably can be romantic. Also, I feel like it's very close to each other. Okay. Okay. Do you ever view normal situations? Normal ish. Like, um,
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, let's say you're starting a company and it is going up against an incumbent. Let's say you're starting a very disruptive... It's going against Starbucks. Something like that. Yeah, like...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
do you picture this are you someone that just like are just like yeah yeah we're starting again you kind of look at it in a clear-cut straightforward way or do parts of you imagine this like really like epic battle between you being tiny against this giant thing and it feels like this i don't even think i had considered that either of my startups has any competitors that's funny
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. I mean, they're pretty weird startups. I'm talking about a hypothetical item.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I just, I wouldn't even... No, I think, I don't think, yeah. I think for stat music... I got distracted, didn't I?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
That was not the point, but... I'm just trying to think of scenarios that you might be able to imagine. But yeah, I mean, it just sounds like you're not. But like, why do you feel like you need to learn it? It's just like a random property of a person, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And there is a very specific trade-off and very specific design you'd use to minimize the downsides of it, which is exactly what we did. We didn't factor that in at all, just linked a bunch of stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
brain chemistry did Liz tell you about this philosopher that she's super into he's like I'm gonna say philosopher but he's like just a modern day person he's still alive writing I forgot his name I think he might be Korean I forgot I forgot what it is but what you're saying reminded me because as she mentioned to me the other day Adam really needs to read his stuff and you're not gonna like it but I think it is the perfect explanation of everything that you're going through really
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Please send it to me. Let me ask her right now. Yeah. What is that philosopher guy?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I just don't call her. I think we talked about this before. I don't like saying people's names.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It's not that I just for some reason I try to avoid. I don't know what it is. The thing about it feels weird. Like, does he have any pet names for you? I don't know if pet names is a weird way to put this. Any nicknames? Because I guess we don't.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah, so if you set, the problem with JWTs is the upside is you can verify JWT without calling another server. So it's really efficient. Like there's a bunch of good reasons for that. But that exact property, it makes it so someone can't revoke them. So if someone is like, oh, there's James who was leaked, I need to revoke it. Other systems are still going to keep validating it.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, I don't know where to post this because Chris needs to see it too. I'm just going to post it in a DM with him.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I've only ever heard what Liz explained to me. Like what she's read his stuff and she's like told me what he's about. I personally feel like I have been saying all this for a long time. So I'm like, hey, why did you give me credit for it?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Well, I mean, obviously, I've like casually thought about this here and there. This person obviously went way deeper and probably expresses it in like a much more clear, convincing way. Yeah, yeah, sure. So his whole thing is about how much we have nothing to focus on. So we introspect infinitely. And it sounds like a very cliche, very cliche thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
But the way he expressed it and the way the points that he makes are very good. And it's like a very well, well thought out process of it. It's kind of what I was talking about earlier. A quality of life is actually extremely, extremely high. And there is just infinite things in the world to introspect and microanalyze every little thing about yourself. And that in itself is the torture.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I mean, it's like, it's not that, it's just like a, again, a spectrum, right? There's like, a lot of these problems are actually there. You know, there are things that, it's not like it's completely fake, but oftentimes, like, we're actually feeding it by trying to understand and solve it. And it doesn't have to go to the extreme of us literally being starving. There's just like...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
you know, we've just hit this weird threshold of just stuff, displacing other stuff. And then new stuff is like just pulling you deeper and deeper and deeper into, into this kind of thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
They don't know that you flagged it as bad. And if you try to design some kind of system to make them check a database first, then you've effectively... lost all the benefits of a JWT. So what you do is you set the JWT expiration to be really low, like five minutes, and then you also issue a refresh token, and the refresh token is not a JWT.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
everything. And it's like, I think it's a very good analysis of what's going on. Okay. And the reason I said, you know, people aren't going to like it is because it's not, it's like people are looking for the answer, but the answer is like, stop asking the question, looking for the answer.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. Uh, but, uh, yeah. So I think it's a, like I said, I feel like we just are so focused on ourselves. Like we're like peak, uh, Me, what is my life? What are my feelings? What should I be eating? How should I be living? It's just so crazy. And I think that's a lot of reasons why people are struggling in a lot of ways.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. But what's funny is this guy's entire point is people don't know how to build relationships. So in both those scenarios, you are. It's like it's even if you're alone. you're still feeling a bit of a relationship. So he kind of diagnosed that as being the root.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And you might not be introspecting in the same way as you are now, but you probably are living a very self-focused life and it might manifest in different ways. So I think his root thing is all about we just don't know how to have normal relationships.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm sure there, I'm sure there is, but I think with a lot of this stuff, it's like alternatives, things I could do with my time. We just have these habits and ways of looking at things. By the way, I say we, uh, I just mean like just,
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
That's something that has to be sent to a server to get a new access token.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
world in general everyone struggles with it in different different points um i've told you before i reached a point where i'm like i'm done like i'm like fully baked uh and all those instincts kind of kind of went away but yeah i think i think just really understanding what he's saying and like really buying it and like having that realization is probably what what fixes things i don't think there's like here's what you'll be doing instead it's just uh
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
kind of admitting that this is what's actually going on. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I don't know. I'm sure there's like YouTube stuff on him. And I don't know. Like I said, I haven't actually consumed any of his stuff. It's just stuff that I've been told by Liz. But she thinks he's very, very good.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
yes just like everyone else and like it's changed over time and she's has done that less um yeah like i said everyone's just at a different point yeah um but like i said the world is built to teach you to literally do that all the time yeah like the world is always telling you that you should be doing this yeah and people you want to feel like you're not impacted by that but we literally all are yeah okay
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Is blue sky better? Your vibe on Twitter is like...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
for the most part except when you like start to like apologize a bunch but a lot of the times you just post something and just it just feels so it just feels like you just do not care about anyone which is great i think that's a great i mean i don't care about anyone on twitter but like what part do you feel is bad for you i think it's the consuming stuff i think it's when i start scrolling because like it's right only twitter's right only i know that's the problem like
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, so the root thing is here, the access token is sent to random places. It's sent to APIs, it's sent to other people. The refresh token is never sent anywhere except to the authorization server. So that like moves, that flies around less. So it's theoretically, you know, less exposed. So we had that model.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I feel like it should be a thing. Someone should do that with Blue Sky since you can't actually build stuff like that. Well, actually, no. You can do write-only Twitter if you do it through Buffer or something. Oh, okay. One of those apps. Okay, so for me, I want... Here's what I want. And maybe I'll actually take the time to do this. I want a thing that lets me write and see replies.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm okay reading replies to my stuff. But I think I'm the same where I kind of agree with you. I just don't want to read.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Oh, you have control over that already. You don't have self-control. That's all of us, right? We have a way to control. How do I do that? We could just follow a small set of people and just look at the following tab. But we all don't do that because we don't have self-control.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Every day it's going to be like a Russian roulette.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It's going to be really random. That's a slap in the face.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I have the perfect solution for you. You say every day you're going to unfollow five people randomly, but it's not random. You just pick. But you say it's random. That's a perfect cover.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It doesn't have to be 30. It just has to be, just unfollow people's stuff that you don't like seeing. It's that simple.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
That way, you know, if you revoke someone's refresh token, they can keep accessing the system for five minutes. But after five minutes, like their access token will expire and they'll fail to refresh a new one. So we did that design. They didn't factor that in at all. So I literally was like, I explained that, and then I said, I understand that this is going to be a continuous problem.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I feel like I don't see that much annoying stuff on Twitter.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. OK, so before you tap. Yes, I'm saying my following tab. I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I look at my for you tab also because I don't have any self-control like anyone else.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
i need to really badly do a rant perfect do it that's what this is for that's what this podcast is i like was writing out a tweet and i was like like a really ranty tweet and i was like holding myself back so i was like i should probably just like rant about this on the on the podcast um let's go so we released open off beta uh last week or not last week damn it's only been it's not monday it's only been a week
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I know. Annoyed really hard. Yeah. I definitely do, but it's mostly the people replying to me. Like dumb people control that too.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah, come up with something. How's the API stuff going?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
No, it's not because the whole point is, yeah, we can do a one-off thing, but we're just never going to maintain this stuff well. Yeah, that's true. It's not automatic.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah, we've learned this lesson in SST enough times where we're like, it just has to be as automatically generated as possible. Otherwise, there's drift and you never fix it.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
This is a security-related thing, so people are going to come in with these dumbass binary statements around this stuff and confuse people because people don't know. People are going to see that, and they're going to be like, oh, does that mean it's not secure? So I wrote...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah, just for our podcast viewers because this isn't public information. You just leaked all of it, Adam. I'm sorry. Yeah, we're going to make our API public and we think it's funny for Adam to spend a lot of time making it like a really high quality documentation site with a sandbox and, you know, just... Make it feel like a real product, except it's just to order coffee programmatically.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And we want to have people... We're going to have a contest to see who can come up with the craziest place to integrate this thing. What's the craziest place you can order coffee from? And the winner gets free coffee for life.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. So we're building it out and it's going to be, you know, We're going to have SDKs in various languages too. Yeah. We're talking today. Did you see my message about the Java and Kotlin one? No. We're going to have a Java SDK.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
For enterprise coffee ordering. Everything costs 10 times as much if you order the Java SDK because you're enterprise.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm sure TJ will hand build an OCaml one because I don't think our partner generates OCaml SDKs.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm sure he'll throw it into Telescope. I'm sure he'll do a bunch of... Oh, yeah. Telescope. That'd be good.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
SDK is going to be on every single computing device on the planet.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
This is the first issue of this, so I'm not going to do anything off of this, but I'm updating your code of conduct being like, if you are here to report a security issue, and I put it in quotes, security issue, you must report it in these terms. You need to say, I see that the design is A. And it was probably chosen because it has these benefits and it has these downsides.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
We're definitely going to do that. I shared the idea with a few people that were not even that technical and they thought it was so funny. So that just makes me... Really motivated to make it happen.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
now it's fine yeah it's a real company but it's a funny idea it is funny i wonder if we can pull it off like could we raise like a million dollars that'd be so funny and oh the best thing to do oh my god this is such a good idea i don't know if this would actually screw us over but if we could get a single investor to do a price round a billion dollar valuation
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
But like, you know, they only invest like 10K or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A tiny percentage. I think there's some signals of this at some point. I know they had some crazy valuation.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. But like legally, like they get a 409A done and everything. But like... Does that screw us later?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
A down round only matters if we gave liquidation preferences to that investor, I think.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, we have to do that. That's really funny. Terminal is now a billion dollars. I love it so much. We get TechCrunch to cover it.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay. Cool. Well, hopefully you can get it all done today.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
What did you do? I don't think it's going to be that bad because what I did was... Was it mostly infra stuff? I actually just checked out the infra folder from your branch to avoid merge conflicts.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
So that folder is identical. Did you jump into the core or any of the other packages? I added a new core folder, but that's not going to conflict. I don't think your merge is going to be that bad. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I don't know anything. No, it's fine. We're definitely going to promote them that we're using stainless. I added them to our Slack, by the way.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, I'm sure there's like five more annoying PRs for me to go look at in the time of this.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Have fun with that. After that person replied to me all angry. We'll see. All right. All right. See ya. See ya.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And here's how it's currently mitigated. But I think it doesn't go far enough. If you don't phrase it like that, I'm just going to flat out close the issue because you're not here to actually contribute. You're just here to like... get someone on some kind of rule. So I find that extremely annoying. So I wrote this code of conduct. It's only two things I put in there. I was like, it's two points.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It says reporting security issues. I say like, if it's a security issue, like, you know, don't post it publicly message me. And if we don't respond in some amount of time, then you can just go disclose it publicly in case there's like some kind of hold exploit. Yeah. Then number two, I wrote reporting security issues in quotations. And I was like,
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
You're likely reporting a not really a security issue. Like, you know, please phrase it in this way so we know that you've actually done your research. Yeah. So I wrote that. Okay, great. I think this problem is solved. And today I wake up. I get another PR. Fix code of conduct. It's a title PR. And it's like in this PR message, it says the code of conduct is very bad.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It should not be used for these type of things. And then they copy pasted just like some generic as code of conduct. Like, we think you should be a good person. Like, please do not like discriminate someone by their gender. It's all that dumbass legal crap that is just infiltrating every single corner of the world of just people being like, please be a good person.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And then they list out like all these things. really shallow stupid ways of what a good person is like oh man what the fuck does this have to do with an authentication library like i deleted the thing that i the actual thing that's going to come up that stuff that i wrote and they submitted this pr and beyond this just being really stupid like me not liking the actual approach like
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
What the hell is wrong with people? You have no history with this project. I don't even think you're a user of this project. You haven't contributed any code. You haven't contributed any examples. You are literally a random person who just drove by and was like, I have an opinion on how this project should be run. He's a random ass person, like no tied to the project at all.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
So I was like, yeah, this is so fucking annoying. And this is the type of stuff in open source that like never gets talked about. The cliche thing is like, uh, like overly demanding user, which like I said, is annoying, but at least they're like using your thing and like giving you data points on how to like fix stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
This is just people being bored and being like, I'm going to insert myself into this and teach other people how to be a good person. And I just can't stand it.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And it's been really cool. We've gotten like a lot of really great PRs, like a crazy amount of PR. Like every day I wake up to like five or six PRs that are definitely mergeable. And it's really great because that's kind of what we hoped for. Like we wanted to build a shell of something and the power of open source is to like cover the, like a long tail list of something.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. It's just like, what's all that's going on here is you're trying to like make yourself look like a good person and you are wasting people's times. Like it is really, really frustrating.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
No, recycling is, I mean, assuming it's that thing where we just set up this whole fake system to make ourselves feel better, and it just all goes into traffic. Yeah, I think that's true.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
It's a very, very tiny percentage of it actually gets recycled. And then we have this complicated ass system of recycling. And it probably has like a big financial cost.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Like a lot of it just gets dumped into landfills in other countries.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I was in this video. Through proper channels or just like a company randomly trying to dispose of waste and there's no like enforcement of.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I just don't understand how we can produce so much of it. Everything is covered in plastic. I'm imagining, okay, how much oil does this take? Is it one drop of oil you can stretch it into a bag? Is that how it works? How are we producing so much of it? And this is the cheapest...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
container and i think about how like you know i don't know back in i don't know when pre-plastic era was like but whenever i watch like madman or like a show that takes place in the 60s like it's just not anywhere and everything just looks so nice like everything just looks so much better i know i do wish it didn't exist i mean
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
And the community is actually doing that and helping us there, which is awesome. But I think it's general enough of a project that I'm getting like a much wider audience of people that are like looking at it. And so I'm attracting some of these like very annoying open source type situations. Uh, so it's not what people might imagine. It's not the person demanding a future.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Everything's so shitty and plastic. Except for Legos.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Well, I was just thinking like, what if we made out of wood?
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
The plastic thing is crazy. But yeah, just this whole... All the towers we build to make ourselves feel better in a not real way. Just so much of that.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I'm just kidding. Okay. So yeah, Well, I think what people point to is when they run tests, people often get through like when they like test them without telling them and they try to say something, they often get through. But I think there is an aspect to it stopping stuff that from before someone even tries. Right.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Exactly. Like, I think a lot of stuff is, like, opportunistic when you see that there's a very specific gap, you're, like, more willing to try it. So if it was just, like, a chill process, like, there might just be more people that are going to try. So it might just stop stuff from happening before they do.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Just, like, having a lock on a gate, even if it's not, like, literally locked and someone walks by, like, that'll probably prevent someone from... They can just unlock it and get in if they want to, but it probably stops a bunch of opportunistic things from happening.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Perot is a good guess because that applies to like literally everything in the world.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, so my issue with the TSA, and this is changing, because have you seen those new machines? Those crazy, like, circular, sleek, white ones? It looks like a jet engine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
I actually don't care about that. Like I'm like, I'm, I don't find that annoying. Like someone, I know that annoys some people and they're like, you don't pay for this. But for us, it's like a little bit different. Uh, I get like, Man, I've been struggling. The reason I didn't post a tweet is because I'm struggling to find the right insult for this type of person. Like, it's like a Karen.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Okay, so my issue historically with the TSA is every time you show up, it's a random process. It's like, today we're doing laptops in bag. It's fine. Don't take out your laptops. Okay, next week we're doing laptops out of bag. I think it's all just related to how busy they are. And I'm just like, I don't care if this is a complicated process. Just...
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
tell me like i want to know what it is so i can just do it every time instead of being like what this time do i take off my shoes do i take off my jacket uh you have to say pre No, I don't. Really? I just, I just, I typically don't, I just typically, it's not, I don't like flying. I just don't travel much. So I just never felt worth it.
How About Tomorrow?
Open Source Security Theater
Yeah. That said, I traveled a lot this year, so it kind of would have been worth it, but it's really worth it. Yeah. That, but that said, these new machines are great because don't have to do anything to drop your bag in, go same thing every single time. So whenever I'm flying it in New York, which has this and some terminals in Miami have this too. Great process. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I knew it. I knew it. I love them so much. I knew it. I'm not even kidding. No one would know to ask that question, but I knew to ask that question because I know you.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And then there's, like... I don't know if this is... I don't know if where you are is popular enough for this to be a thing, but... there's a type of nanny you're talking about. Then there's like more professional ones that are like trained in certain ways. So people, and obviously there's like a price difference there. Yeah, sure.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And then there's like the local daycare, which we can walk to, which to me sounds fun, especially when the kid is like not an infant because there's like other kids and stuff. But yeah, again, how expensive is it? Is it full? Is there like a wait list? Like all that stuff. People talk about how impossible it is. And in New York,
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
this was like so crazy all this stuff was just like so crazy so impossible like so difficult
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
We think he's going to enjoy school. Yeah, it's a short-term thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. The other option that exists here, which, again, I don't know how... Maybe this is an everywhere thing, but...
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
If you look up daycares on Google maps in Miami, you'll just come across just like normal looking houses because it's pretty normal for like one person in the neighborhood, just like kind of start a business where they just take a bunch of kids and it'll just be like, they'll have like five or six kids at a time and it's just at their house. And it's like, you know, on the next street.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Um, and obviously is probably more affordable than. Yeah. Some of the other options.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, I know. I like saw you guys in the call and I was like, I'm going to come, I'm going to join here. And they're just going to, it's just going to be like in some place that I don't even, I can't even imagine.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's nice. That's what I was telling Liz. I was like, I feel better if they're just... Again, assuming they're not old enough where like they would even interact with their kids, especially when they're like infants or whatever. Right. I was like, it feels better if someone's at our house versus us dropping them off somewhere foreign.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
You know, it's so crazy that we don't even want to talk about it to anyone besides our cron members. So we're, we have a lot of really weird, crazy ideas. We need to pull people to do it with. Uh, so yeah, like if you're a cron member as boy, we're going to, that's the first place we're going to go for that stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So if you want to support us, if you want to help us do some of the weird stuff we do, please subscribe. And we're going to keep saying this every episode.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
cross-pollination happening but i want to feel like they can like do stuff without us having to be a bottleneck to their stuff does that make sense yeah yeah i gotcha and i think the way i always look at this stuff is uh i feel like companies always fall into these like two distinct phases where there's an initial phase where
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
you have all these crazy ideas that you want to do, but you just can't do them in this initial phase. Yeah. Then you hit some kind of milestone where then you can now start doing a lot of things that was kind of the point of even starting the company in the first place. But that like sometimes takes like years and sometimes companies like never even get there.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Um, so to me, I feel like we're like in that initial phase, I don't think we're far from being out of it. Uh, But it's going to feel uncomfortable whenever we have these like really exciting things because we don't really have a mechanism to. There's so much foundation to lay before we can do that.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
you're saying maybe there's just this phase we're in and eventually we get into a phase where more of these kind of things that we dream up and want to do actually happen yeah yeah i don't think we're that far from it there's just some stuff that uh we need to set up and it's funny to think like it's it's always easy to forget because we're always focused on the next thing and we like forget of all the things that have added up already yeah like we don't think at all about our
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
coffee purchases at all yeah it just happens it's like totally that was like that used to be something that was like such a focus and good point uh every single week we were like trying to make that happen and now we like don't even think about it at all so i think eventually some of the stuff we're working on now we'll get there and then you know we'll have more leverage to do some of these bigger things uh yeah it's gonna be uncomfortable it's over there
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
but did what i said does it make any sense to you like yeah that makes total sense yeah i think the way you described just like the leanings of the people make sense and people yeah i think not being able to make the stuff they want to make happen is uh is not good
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
run stuff through the company or something like how does that make sense i feel like there's like a a disconnect where they can't just do those things and i don't know what it is so like i think what you're describing is the idea is born and then nothing ever happens after and part of that is because maybe they like literally can't make it happen uh that's half of it but i think the other half is actually just a little bit of uh i don't know what the right word here is but
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
it's the same dynamic where everybody in the planet, not everybody, but every engineer in the planet has ideas for like side projects or whatever. And like such a small fraction of people, uh, get it to happen because it's very easy to underestimate, like all this other invisible stuff around these things that you need to do.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And then when you start doing it, you're like suddenly become aware of it. And then your motivation just, or you get distracted or it goes, it goes away. So yeah, like that muscle, I think it's just a little weaker with them because they just, this is like not something that they've done a lot.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. Yeah. And this just comes down to like, uh, like for a high performing team, everyone has to understand everything. There's like just no way around that. Um, so if you don't like really know how. the details of what it looks like from having the idea to making it happen. You just don't build up the sense around that. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I haven't thought about this at all. So I haven't like, yeah, I haven't like been able to. I haven't done anything to help that.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I want to unlock us to do more of the crazy things. I'm of two minds. So one is what I just described, like the best team, every single person does everything. Like they just know how to do everything. And that's just always going to be the best, but it's not realistic to take any group of people and have that situation come out because we have some advantages.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's not like, like there's some upsides to, to the different people on the team that like are very specific. Yeah. And the thing I'm describing is not very specific. It's a very general way of doing things. So the other, other part of me thinks, okay, like maybe we need to build a way to make it so they don't explicitly don't need to like know anything, you know, anything else about the process.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So yeah, I'm not sure. Like, I just need to think about it and understand. Um, Like, I guess I haven't thought about it too much, but that's fine. Yeah. If we just get better at some of the common logistical stuff that always happens whenever we do something and it's just kind of like something that's not. It doesn't feel like going from zero every single time. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, my productivity wasn't great. It wasn't at zero because I do like the two weeks where everything is kind of quiet because I can do a bunch of stuff without like every day I wake up and the first thing I do is go through our support channel. And I don't like doing that. So it's just this like every day starts off on a negative. In a lot of ways, it's just like hard to get started.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Then it's possible that like they don't even need to know much and it's kind of all enabled. Yeah. The other thing is like literally if we just have, if we just make enough money to hire one person that is like basically full time, that kind of just serves as like the solution to a lot of this stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a bunch of stuff. But I think ultimately you're identifying... a problem correctly. I just don't know exactly what to do about it yet. What the solutions are. Yeah. Okay. That's fair.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I mean, that's that, that, that has to be the foundational thing. Cause that's the only thing that is available that we can like, like, like, like I said, we don't even think about our week to week coffee sales anymore. Yeah. It just happens.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. Whereas an events thing is never going to really get there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We just haven't like tapped. There's like so much untapped stuff here. Oh, man.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's so funny. Cause when we were describing the idea during the meeting, I had like an image of it in my head. And then like an hour later, David designed it and posted it. And I was just laughing. Cause I was like, this looks nothing like what I imagined. And it's like a thousand times better than anything I could have even
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
That's so funny.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I think that's it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I was going to tell you some... I've been doing a lot more YouTube. Oh, you have? I've seen some of your YouTube. Yeah, so we've been... That's like... a bunch of stuff with like the actual, like I see itself has gotten to a good place. So now like we're reallocating effort to marketing YouTube side. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of funny. I'm like, all right, this is going to sound really arrogant.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And those two weeks, you know, it's not like I know there's not much going on and no one's going to like interrupt me in the middle of the day and stuff. So it's a special two weeks every year. But I wasn't that productive either.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So prepare, prepare yourself. No one is surprised.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
okay we're gonna do youtube seriously let's try to like max out what we can get out of it i looked at a bunch of other company youtube trying to like figure out like okay what's the bar like what's possible looking at other like tech individual youtubers in our space um i was looking at their numbers and i was like okay let's set some goals for ourselves let's get to a place where
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
for like an educational type video we put out, get 10,000 views in a week. That's like, from what I saw, I was like, that seems like a decent goal. Everyone always talks about how hard YouTube is and even getting there would probably be pretty difficult. The first video we did got 25,000 in two days. Look at you. In two days.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And I'm kind of like looking at this and I'm like, so I started watching a lot more YouTube in the past month. Not like in our space, just like in general. I've been trying to like reduce, like reallocate like what I'm watching and doing more YouTube so I understand it better.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And I like, and I see a bunch of people that I like and I watch their stuff and it is so, so much better from every like micro, like the obviously production quality, but also like every single word they say in the video is like perfect. Whereas for me, I feel like 30% of the words in my video were correct and like, you know, it's like, I'm definitely right at the beginning.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But, like, it's already doing better than what everyone kind of makes it out to be. I feel like YouTubers are always like, this is so hard. Like, it's so hard to be a YouTuber and get views. And, like, it's just such a grind. There's, like, talking about all this stuff. I'm like, okay, maybe I just had one lucky video and, like, the rest are going to suck.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But, like, I've made two since and they've all crossed that initial goal that I thought was going to take us a year to get to. It just feels a little bit like... This is too easy. No, I'm more commenting about the attitude from the YouTubers of being like... Oh, I see. I kind of wonder, are you just making it so you have less competition? Because everyone talks about it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
A lot of people are like, oh, I'm kind of interested in this, but it sounds really hard. It's like gatekeeping. Is that what that's called? I don't know if that's what it is, but it might be subconscious, but I'm like... I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, so we see two gaps. So one gap is within the AWS space, there's just... So for example, we made an Aurora verse RDS video. So I searched up on YouTube. Okay. Aurora verse RDS. Classic question that like everyone has, like what the hell do you need to do? One video that I thought was kind of okay. Like, okay. Uh, everything else was like just nonsense. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But there was really just one result for that. So we're like, okay, there just isn't a lot of stuff in this space. Yeah. So, uh, When we make videos like that, and we have infinite ideas there because there's just so much stuff we can do, we don't expect those to go that big because we are focusing on some audience. But to be fair, we have like... It's not like we're starting from zero.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
We have a community that like, yeah, we'll drive stuff there. But, you know, most of the views are that from there are coming from like 80 plus percent of the views on those videos are coming from people discovering it from within YouTube. We're not driving them from Twitter or anywhere else.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And then but then I also we make a bunch of those. I'm like rough with the ratio that roughly have is for every four of those I make. Then I'll make one of these other kind of videos, which is trying to come up with stuff that's as broad as possible. So the first video I made was just on Go. I was just like talking about my things around Go. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And that one did like I would say that one did probably two or three times better than our AWS stuff, which makes sense. It's a bigger audience. Yeah. And when I made that video, I was watching it. I was excited for the idea. Then I made it and I was like. man, this isn't that good. And I was kind of not super excited about putting it out.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But then, like I said, it did pretty well compared to what I'm seeing out there. In my head, 50,000 views was like, if you're going to get 50,000 views on a video, you're super legit to the point where you can get sponsored. It's like a big deal. But I feel like we're maybe a year away from that. It doesn't feel unattainable.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, I think what I've found is... I don't know how to position these videos so that they're, they're stuff that a broad audience would actually try to watch. So the Aurora versus RDS one. So that was my, that was me experimenting with, okay, let me just like hardcore do like a very explicit, this is an AWS video. Obviously like you might even find it from searching about this topic.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Um, but I feel like not that many people, even if the video is good, there's not that many people are even gonna like go watch that. I don't know why. I can see how it doesn't feel appealing. Whereas I can definitely explain some AWS stuff in a much broader way where a lot of people do watch. And the AWS part is almost like a Trojan horse to explain this bigger topic. But yeah, I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. I could sense it. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I just think there's not a lot of... It's very common, but I think there's not a lot of interest in people...
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. But I also think you're right in that it is a giant population. And I feel like once we crack something like those videos might end up being much bigger. Yeah. Like there's no reason why they shouldn't be 10 times bigger.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
No, the issue here is they don't have access to our AWS account. That's actually the problem.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
If they're just working on the SSH app... That requires two variables. So it's really nice because we don't have to like think about it, but they could also we can just say like make a dot end file with pointed to like the dev API server and the DevOps server or whatever, whatever it needs. I've got to what the two are. And they can just go run it with just node or whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
No, they can just call.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. Go the language. Run it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Uh, yeah, it is. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I mean, we think about this at, we think about this at SC all the time because it's like, uh,
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
new user general new user problem like someone wants to try sst but then but they don't but if they're set up but they don't have an account there's like a whole set of things there yeah i mean it's against there's something to think about like i think there's a way where we can make them because if you think about the components like we could make it run all locally
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Okay. I wake up.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
and i walk outside in my underwear and it's 50 degrees and that is not a good feeling okay so then i walk back inside and i'm like okay let me like put on clothes i guess i guess ridiculous and then i'm like what do i even wear it's like oh i guess i have to wear i'm wearing this like i don't even know what to call it like i don't even remember what these clothes are called anymore they're called pants backs those are pants i'm talking about well yes pants yeah but not pants
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I mean, if we care about this, we can rework our architecture to like optimize for this a little bit. So for radiant, I did do that. So I like, I'm not using, I'm using like almost no AWS specific services. Like it's just a container for the backend. Um, So it can run like very simply locally, like even if it's SSD dev, like I just bring up local commands for the most part. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So, yeah, we can, like, if there's something we care about, we can rework it. I even built, there's another thing I've been working on, is what I worked on over the break a little bit, is our next open library, open event. So this is, like, a durable workflow async event thing that just depends on your database.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So if we start using that kind of stuff, then like, yeah, there's no dependency on some of these more AWS specific things.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So we can just swap that to a container.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Not even with Docker, just run it. But our database, oh, database is PlanetScale. You'd have to bring up MySQL locally, yeah. Okay, bring up MySQL locally, yeah. So I want to understand better, like, I don't expect anyone to work on the backend.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
If that's the case, then we just need to make that a little bit easier. Yeah. It shouldn't require too much rework.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And if they have something that they do want to do like that, they should be good enough to submit a PR without ever having running the app. Just sight unseen.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
If you can't do that, it's unlikely your PR would have ever been good enough for us to merge. Good point.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
ChatGPT did add projects, yeah. Okay. I remember when I switched to Claude, that was, like, right when they added the projects feature. And then it was a huge deal.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I do that with with all of our database schemas, because then I can just ask it for like any time I need or like have an analytics question, I can be like, oh, how many users did X, Y, Z things and it just puts out a SQL query.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And it gives you SQL queries. Yeah. I actually just give it the drizzle definition so it can understand all of that.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
That's what I want to talk about. So there's... So I have a few thoughts about this. So one, someone linked me to a CLI tool called Glimpse. It was made by someone on Twitter. I forgot. He works on Dingboard. It's a simple CLI where you just do Glimpse and then a folder.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And then this is like, this isn't like a sweater. Looks like a sweater, yeah. It's a sweatshirt, maybe? It's a sweatshirt.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And then it will scan all the files and organize and understand the file tree, everything, and just put something in your clipboard that you can paste right to any LLM. And then you can ask your question. So it'll tell the LLM, here's the file structure, here's each file, and it makes sure that it'll cap it if you're exceeding the token amount and stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So that's one thing to help smooth that out a little. But here's actually what I think should exist. There is a file system API in the browser. So instead of us having to upload files to this project's concept... Mm-hmm.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
should just be able to share a folder yes we give permissions for this app to access this folder so it can read and write to it that way when i'm asking the lm like hey fix xyz things you can just write those changes yes to the file and i can go back in my editor and it's right there it's not like going through git or anything no right so i think that's like a really cool workflow that i actually what were you saying about the browser though what
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
There is an API in the browser for a user to share a folder. A folder, yes. With an app. And the app could read the contents of the folder. So it can use that and load context in XYZ, whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Put on a sweatshirt, go outside, because you don't have to blow bubbles for Zuko. And my feet are freezing because I don't want to put on shoes. And then, like, my plastic grass is very cold.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, that would smooth out the kinkiness a ton.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And I did see one app that had that. With all these things, it's just like they build this giant solution for the company they want to build. And all of it is, like, roughly wrong. But then they'll have, like, one feature where they, like, really nailed it that nobody else has. And so I saw that in one of these products.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I tried really hard to make it work.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
that's why I think, so that's, what's great about dev. So I think, I think about this two different approaches. There is Devin, which is, I think if I'm going to, if I was to build a company in this space, like, I think that's a right thing to try to go for. Cause Devin is basically saying, you don't need to change anything about Devin. anything that you're doing. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
We're trying to build something that looks like a human. So if you already set up to collaborate with another human, this can work for you. None of your workflow changes, like they submit a PR. And the second thing is it's unsupervised. So you give it a task and it's supposed to come back hours later. You're not going back and forth with it every like 30 seconds like you are today.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But I think that's great. The reason I churn from it is the results just aren't good enough where it still feels like I have to Watch it and get feedback very, very frequently. So I think the raw power just isn't there. But in terms of the shape of the product, I think it's really great. Do you think that can coexist?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So that's very uncomfortable. Okay, whatever. Then I come inside, start my day. I'm sitting in my room. I don't have a heater in my house. Oh, yeah. In Miami, I guess you wouldn't. It's actually I think I might have a heater. I just don't. I've never tried. I don't know where it is or where the buttons are. I think if I turned up my temperature, I think the heater would kick on, actually.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Well, I think if that exists, that throws into question so much because. That thing is scalable. You can spin up a thousand of them if you want. Good point. The other thing we're talking about today, which is more like help me as an individual be more efficient. Yeah, you can improve that, but you can't horizontally scale that because it's still depending on you, the person. Yeah, sure.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So I think if Devin crossed that bar, it's a high bar, potentially impossible. So they might not ever cross it, which is why there's this other class of bets, which is let's just make... Let's augment like the human. And I feel like this category is like the product execution here is like horrible. Because it's what you're saying. It's like so clunky. They make you massively shift your workflow.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, exactly. So like, yeah, just make it so. That's why I'm excited about going to the file system, because that is a true common thing that exists across the board. So I would like to see something like Bolt or there's another one we're looking at, I guess, or Lovable, I think it's called. What are these? I've never heard of these. It's like, you've tried V0, I'm assuming. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So Cloud is like a general purpose LLM.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Whereas these are like more focused around code.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So theoretically, the product experience around the LLM should be like better than using a general purpose thing like Cloud. Yeah. But what they're lacking is they just... Because it's not this unsupervised thing, I'm like needing to go back and forth with it, which is the point. You need to make that back and forth process like very seamless. And they don't, for some reason, do that.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
There's so many different ways you can go for it. Devin's the big bet and the rest are incremental.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But I don't know. It's weird. It's weird to use a heater. So now I'm sitting here and I've always had this problem where my hands get really cold. Like my hands are just this blood just does not make it to my extremities. There's something called like Raynaud's or something.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I don't know. I don't know if it's that crazy, but it's definitely extremely disruptive. We kind of rethink what our jobs are.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
In that case.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
you can create a course for yourself effectively to get up to speed on any obscure thing. I mean, I think it just massively lowers the risk around attempting any feature. And it's so clear that the SC multiplexer and SC tunnel Both are like really useful, good features that are like maybe core of ST now. Neither would have existed pre-LLM. We wouldn't have even tried it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It would have felt like too weird or crazy of an idea to take a risk on. Because we would have felt like I probably wouldn't have been able to put it off.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, OpenAuth also kind of falls in this category because previous iterations of it, I always hit a wall of like very obscure questions. It'll always be something like,
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
When was our last recording?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
why shouldn't i use a jwt for the refresh token or like why can't i use an identity token for authorization it was like very specific and nobody has like clearly spelled it out but interrogating an lm i was able to like really understand a bunch of things that were kind of eluding me for for years another thing is like yeah if i sat down and i'm like the next two weeks of my life i'm just gonna like master
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
author, whatever, I'm going to understand the spec, I'm sure I would have been able to do it. But this let me casually acquire that experience, that knowledge, while working on other stuff, just here and there. And eventually hit a tipping point where I was like, okay, now I fully get it and I can go do it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
This feels similar to... I remember... Like earlier in my career, my process for learning a new thing, I can remember this very clearly. I was like, I need to use RabbitMQ. I need to learn RabbitMQ. So my approach was I would just keep Googling until I acquired like 10 to 15 articles that like roughly covered everything I had a question on. And it was like this process.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. So right now my hands are ice cold. Yeah. But that's what I'm dealing with. And it's it's really sad for me. It's probably the most tragic thing going on in the world right now. Weather related. Oh, my word.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, a process that took a bunch of whatever. And then I realized like I'm just building a shitty book.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
if i just buy the rabbit mq book like the rabbit mq book and just read it that's just someone that pre-compiled all of that stuff for me um and then since then whenever i had like when i was definitely going into like a new thing i would just buy the book on it and just read the whole thing and i could skip this whole let me like kind of scrounge around for for the information and i feel like
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
lms are kind of similar in that you can just ask it about a topic and it just like pre-researches everything for you don't have to like go like look up all this stuff like when i was working on multiplexer like you know what are all the different ansi codes that exist and like what are the common ones and what are the ones that are special that determine like
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I would have to expect someone to have documented that exact question, but LLM could just pull that up for me on demand.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And even going back, like I would even say that multiplexer thing was the first thing I did that was so heavily LLM assisted that I didn't even do it right. Like I was still using some of my old habits of being like, I got to find something
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
a library that someone implemented that kind of has what i want and i'll go from there yeah and that's what the current multiplexer is it's something i found that's like kind of working and then i use lm to like add all the stuff that i needed but looking back i should just gave up that first thing i should have been like i can just implement this from scratch because the lm would have made it really easy
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, my ordering was all wrong. I tried to find it. Then I used LM to help me understand what this kind of thing even does. Then I filled in the gaps. But I could have just had LM explain to me everything about how terminal stuff works up front, then implemented it, and then I would have been in a better place. And that's probably what I'll do for a V2 of it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Like, we're not building React apps. I struggle with this because I, like... I can't tell if I'm just heavily in some weird bias because I'm looking at a bunch of things and I'm like, wow, a TUI just like, there's so many things that could be a TUI and aren't, and it would be such a good, compelling experience. But I can't tell if it's a bias or not. But I'll give you an example of this.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So someone tweeted yesterday, just try SST. Wow, it's so great, except... it sucks that I have to like go set secrets one by one. And like, it's such an annoying process. And I agree. It is like a very annoying thing. When you add a new secret, you have to like do, or you make a new stage and you have like five secrets to the thing. It's like a pain in the ass. And obviously I'm like, Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
it's just the resistance wears quickly, like whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
SST secret should just open a TUI that just shows you all the secrets and then it helps you type it in and like makes it very easy. And that would be a fantastic experience. But like, am I just being biased? So like doing everything from the terminal or like, is this truly a good experience? And what it like composes so well, right?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Like we have that standalone SST secret UI that's just for setting secrets. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
and then sc dev that just becomes a tab oh in your ssc in your dev yeah in your mate your what's it called thing multiplexer yeah multiplexer yeah so like every feature can be it's like it can be a pure cli command sd secret set xy or it can then be a 2e or it can be embedded in ssc dev and i'm like this feels so compelling to me
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And to me, once I have that kind of thing, I'm never going to want to use something else. At the same time, I tweeted the other day that pissed off everyone. I don't know if you saw that. People got so mad at this. I was like... Oh, I didn't see it. It makes me sad that people use a VS Code terminal. Oh, I saw that tweet. I swear.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
The reason I posted that is because when people use SSD dev in the VS Code terminal, there's a whole set of things that are buggy and don't work. So for me, I'm just like... man, it sucks that they don't get like the full nice experience out of it. And people, I would say understandably interpreted it as you suck for using the VS code terminal, which is fine interpreted that way.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But then the number of comments I got replied being super pissed is the part where I'm like, you're just an idiot. Like you went so far your way to get to like really be bothered by this. So on that hand, and a lot of people replied being like, I don't get it. Like that's just where you like start getting
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
You'd be wearing shorts.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
your program like why would i like what do you mean so then i explained like my issue is that it's not that like integrated terminal in your editor makes a lot of sense i get it i just wish it was better and they're like what do you mean better like how could it be better like all i do is run like basic commands there i run npm start or whatever yeah or like you know uh it's just where you like do git commit so yeah part of me wonders like am i just making this up or is it that if i built good experiences then people would be like
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
This is going to last two weeks. I have to deal with this for two whole weeks and then it'll be warm again.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
more people would actually use it. I can't tell which way.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I mean, I, I just, I like don't really, when people, the thing I can feel confident about is at the end of the day, you have to bring up your backend and you have to bring up your front end. I would say at minimum, you're dealing with that if you're a typical web developer. That means you need two things. Even if you're using VS Code, you need two tabs or two whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
This is, first couple of weeks in January is always like this.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And to me, I feel like that is maybe a good sign that this stuff is useful because I think anyone can understand how a multiplexer makes that nicer.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
yeah and once you have multiplexer you can see how adding more things in there makes it nicer you can see how yeah bring up everything at once makes it nicer oh i love the ssc dev experience i mean i've gotten so used to it now and then aaron's been doing his thing which is like the exact same thing and he's done a really good job i don't know if you've seen the stuff he's worked on what is it it's like the same thing as that solo solo oh aaron francis i'm not gonna lie i was like trying to figure out who you're talking about there's a lot of i love you out there
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's not related to us. Like he like built it totally independently running across the exact same problem and like landed on like very similar solutions. And his implementation is very good. Like we're going to, we're probably going to steal a bunch of ideas.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's the same thing as SCDev, just for the Laravel world. So it understands your Laravel app, brings up your front end, Laravel. It'll put your logs in a separate tab. He has this really cool feature, which I think I'm going to steal. He has something called dump in PHP. It's effectively a special log command. It's like you use it only when you're debugging. he pulls those out into its own tab.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Nice. So I was like, oh, it would be cool if I like, if you did console log something, it wouldn't show up in the main functions tab in SCTab because that's like a mess. It got pulled out into a separate tab. So if you're like debugging something, You can see, like, a less noisy tab with just, like, your debug statements. That sounds nice.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
He also made it a horizontal thing at the top, which I considered at first, but I was like, well, you're going to run out of space. But then he made it scrollable.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's a multiplexer, yeah. It's like a specialized TMUX. That's what SCDev is. That's what Xero is. That's what Solo is. And TurboPack also has the same thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I actually was going to post about this today. So Prime made a... It was funny. I remember there was like this week where he was like, should I just like write this in Rust? Or should I just kind of go back to writing Rust for this thing? And then everyone in the chat was like convincing him to do it. So he was like, fine, I'm going to do it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And a day later, he made a video of being like, I'm done with Rust. And I watched the video and, you know, it was like a really good, reasonable video. It wasn't like, Rust sucks. You shouldn't use it. It was just like...
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
he's used it a bunch he's been in that phase where he loved it he's been in the phase where he like was really enamored by some of the ideas about it and now he's in the phase where he feels like you know it's just really really really really heavy for what he's getting out of it and um he's just like not super happy with where it actually ends up practically I think it's very reasonable.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And he's like, I just want something simpler that is still low level, that feels better. And he's like, I'm just not having fun writing this anymore. It's like the parts that I enjoy it don't make up for the parts that are painful. So I was like, this is very reasonable. And that was also my same feelings around Rust, which is why I don't really use it for anything anymore.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I mean, if you're okay risking death from freezing, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But people got really mad about it. And people are just saying... The reason I was thinking about it is I saw a comment being like, he doesn't understand Rust. That's why he's saying this. He doesn't understand it. He's not really a Rust user. I'm just like... No, the stuff he brought up is, like, you can't get to there unless you've, like, been through the whole journey.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So, clearly, like, he does. But, yeah, people are upset for whatever reason.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
He definitely created a lot of interest.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, and I'm sure that there's like genuine cases where someone wouldn't have heard about it if not for that. And they ended up using it in a very good situation. Like I think about my years with Elixir that were so formative to like me understanding distributed systems and like just so much impact, like functional part of a bunch of stuff that impacted me.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And it was because it just showed up on Hacker News like three times in one week. And I was like, okay, now I have to look into it. So I'm sure that like definitely happened.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
We've been off for two weeks.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
That's what's going on with that. And he's, like, looking into Zig now. And I've been looking into Zig a bunch, too, just coincidentally, in the past couple months. And, yeah. I think the one thing you can make fun of Prime before, which is what everyone should focus on, is he falls in love very quickly and tells everyone that they should fall in love, too. Yeah. And then he, like...
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
maybe falls out of love.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's like, exactly. He does that very fast. Well, TJ made a really funny meme today. He, he used that grim Reaper meme, the one where it goes into each thing. Yeah. It's prime, like killing each language with his love for it. And then it'll hate for it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
No, hurricanes are easy. Hurricane is not a problem at all. We have fortresses here that are impenetrable. We're good. Okay, but here's another detail. So I got kicked out of the kitchen because, you know, I've been making two steaks every single day. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Full of urine. Just urine everywhere.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Whatever. Are your toilet seats heated?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I knew it. I knew it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
No one would know to ask that question, but I knew to ask that question because I know you.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. So my toilet seats are never cold except for this week. So this week I have cold toilet seats. Yeah. That 50 degree toilet seat.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Frank was telling me to buy a heater for my room. And I'm like, I don't think it's worth it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I just really want I want like just a heat lamp over my keyboard. So my hands are just keep your hands.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
See ya.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
we don't have a hood like a range hood yeah so i've just been blasting like smoke into my kitchen for like three months and it's just been covering everything with like a thin layer of something like i don't know i don't know what yeah i kicked out of the kitchen so now i have an outdoor setup i got a propane tank and a burner outside oh no you have to go outside in the cold now i have to cook and like i put my hands over i put my hand over the fire while it cooks to stay warm
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
That's not true. We talked yesterday. We had a recurring meeting yesterday.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So, guys, I'm really struggling out here. This is the hardest anyone's ever struggled ever.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Probably. Yeah. I have to do that to eat my ribeyes.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I rationed myself. I want to tweet even more about meat. I want to tweet about it twice a day, but I restrict myself twice a week. Just an alt account.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It just felt like this random thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Nobody wants to manage that kind of stuff. How have you been?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Okay, we can't talk about it yet, but... I do not even understand how Adam is doing this thing. It's like, it's so weird and crazy. And I'm like looking at it and using it. I'm just like, I don't understand how this is even possible.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I think this might top coffee over SSH. This might top it.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah. This might top it. Even dumber. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, I'll allow it in this case. There's mitigating circumstances that mitigate my hate of meetings. So...
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So I have a bunch of questions about this because I don't know if you saw AJ posted a tweet cause he's looking for daycare for his new baby. That's like probably six months older. So now, um, And in Boston, which is like probably, I think he was saying is maybe the most expensive place in the world for daycare. It's like $3,800 a month. Wow.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And that's for, that's for daycare where you like leave them with a bunch of, you know, it's not like an individual person is taking care.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
I was going to ask like, so I'm like, what? So I was like, I should probably look into this and understand these costs. Not that, like, I think you're just, you're just stuck paying for it. There's like, no, there's no really way to wiggle out of it. But yeah, I had the same thought. I was like, that seems like you just have a full-time person. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
The person that you hired, like, are they considered full-time or is it like a part-time thing?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
But in your situation specifically, is that, is it a full-time thing?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
It's like not anyone's primary thing. So it's easy for it to flip.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, that's not too crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
No, I think we'll have every week. I don't think everyone has to make it every week, but sure. Yeah. Yeah. For example, I didn't make it yesterday. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
And you're an older woman.
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
So they're basically, they're in the house all day or they're like taking him out somewhere or how is it?
How About Tomorrow?
Miami is Cold, Adam's All in on AI, Dax Cracks YouTube, and Kids Are Expensive
Yeah, I get it. Yeah. So, yeah, we were talking about this too. And it's, uh, Yeah, we have some options because we have a lot of family. Must be nice. And... But, like, you know, we have this whole thing where Liz is very unsure how confident she is in taking that option. Yeah, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
can you hear me okay i'm getting some like stuttery i don't know if it's my internet i was trying to find it might be your inner voice my inner voice that's causing you to sound stuttery like i have low bandwidth yeah interesting You looked very deep in thought. I was. You were eating your necklace. It was the whole thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I'm pretending to be something with anybody. But yeah, it's like repulsive to me. Like the feeling of like hiding makes me kind of want to vomit.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So like at this point moving forward, if I'm someone who plays video games or not, if I played that specific video game or not, she's going to know and everyone's going to know and it's going to be healthy and I'm not going to be in the shadows feeling like I can't just be myself with my own life. Anyway, that much has changed. I know today something flipped.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, it's going to feel it's every interaction still feels hard to not think about what she how she perceives me because that's been ingrained over a long period of time. But yeah, I've got to I've got to get past that. I've got to be able to make decisions without fear of how she views it.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
If I think it's a good decision to make or it's a stupid decision and I make a mistake, but like I can live with that. Knowing at least I was honest.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. Anyway. Wow. Can you tell me your embarrassing thing? I need some, I need some light. Okay. Are you ready for this? Yeah. Oh man. I'm trying. Actually, I really want to kind of like guess, but I'll never guess. So it's okay. Just go ahead.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Whoa. Dax, Mr. Senior Dev, have you tweeted about this yet?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I am going to post about it, but... You're still trying to figure out how you're going to rectify the situation? No, no, no. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, it was Tuesday night. It's always on Tuesday. I just learned that. I voted like a hundred times. Sorry.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, I guess I know people, people that are close to me that have had issues in life, mental health or otherwise, that have done a lot of things publicly. And... I don't know. You can, you know, when things are really bad and you're struggling, it's easy enough to like find solace in the anonymous internet, not the anonymous internet, but there's just like, say what's on your mind.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I was going to say, there's that to kind of safeguard that. I guess that works with imports too, not just new resources.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. Something like this, whenever something like this happens, there's always multiple things like multiple failure points that had to go wrong. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's like so many little things. I mean, you just call that too. And then, I don't know, surely like the order you did things or whatever the deploys, it's always like just the perfect storm.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
And it happens even to Dax, even Dax deletes the prod DB. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
This was for the SSC console?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You would have been the one flagging the EBS volume.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You're talking about from PlantScale? Yeah, I was going to say, I think texting the CEO and the CTO being at his house, that's pretty good support. It's probably atypical.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So they've got a 24-7 staff, I guess.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
And then, I don't know, everyone views you a little differently because you're struggling. There's a lot of stigma about mental health in America. Let's talk about that. I'm just kidding. That's not what I'm here to talk about. So, okay. Where do I want to begin? I really do struggle here because I don't know if it were just me and you talking and this wasn't going to be a podcast.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Thanks, Sam. Let's give a little free promo. You know, if you're looking for a database service and you're tired of dealing with backups and all these things, choose PlanetScale.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
This would be so easy. It's low-hanging fruit, Dax. It's like a low-hanging idea. You just literally need a visual, like a stamp.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, AI-generated. Even better, yeah. But it just needs to be something they can put a little link in their readme, and it's like, Dax approved.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I think that's got legs. Just give it a shot. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I like that thing instead.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That would be a lot of that. What else has been going on? I missed everything the last two weeks. We posted that video. I saw the video today. Oh, you posted it. Cause I saw it before it was posted. That's right. People.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I got the inside scoop. All I had to do was lose everything in my life and hit rock bottom. And Dax was like, this will cheer you up. So if you could do that, if you could just lose everything, Dax might give you a little, little preview of the video. Yeah. Did you hear me?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Adam, could you stop having a crisis so I can send you this video?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
This is not a good moment, but I need to send it to you.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That was my only... You're really into this idea. You're really into the iPhone cinematography thing.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, but there's a little bit of shirtless snacks in this video.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Obviously, the conversation would be different. Normally, I like to just have the conversation as naturally as possible where I don't think about what I'm saying. I'm probably going to think a little bit about what I say on this episode. OK, so I've had a tough couple of weeks, week. I don't know. Also, yeah, I just I don't want to make this whole episode about this. This just feels weird.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Um, so I bought like, it goes back before, before this video. I mean, like you've been showing me like your rig and all this, like you've kind of got this set up and I get it. I'm excited about not having big hunky cameras. Anyway, go ahead.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Even the low light, like the outdoor scene. Also, shout out, Liz. I can see you in the reflection of the door. Good work on the camera work. Nice. I mean, I should have known it wasn't Zuko. Like, of course it was Liz. Yeah. Were you at all afraid you were going to drop the... Were you ever afraid you were going to drop the laptop? Or did you drop the laptop?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I wondered how much you had practiced.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
High confidence. Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I've got a still frame of it right now, and it looks like the laptop looks fake because it's in motion. I don't know. Just the way it's balancing on your face, it looks like it's floating above your hand, like levitating, and it's glowing. It's very funny. I'm going to send you this frame. It's funny.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like that the audio is just from the phone mic. Like when you're sitting in that chair, it's picking you up well enough just over the phone mic.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's still a mystery, right? People don't know what we're doing yet.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
TBD. Yeah. Still day by day.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's weird. There's so many things that are weird. It's weird in the sense that you're just dying over there.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. Okay, we'll talk through that. Yeah, I would love to hang out. I mean, I would love to be with you guys for a bit. That sounds very refreshing, given all the current events. Yeah. Some hangout time. And obviously, I'm excited about the event and what we're doing. It's very exciting. Oh, did you say iPhone 16?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I think I have a 15. There's a new one? When did that happen?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So three mics, huh? When did they come out? Is this like recent?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It was new when you got it? Like it just came out? Yeah, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I used to like watch all the Apple events and WWDC and like all this stuff and know exactly when every new device was coming out. And now I've gone years and I don't even know half the time what number my phone is. But I do remember recently I broke my phone and had to take it to the place and it was a 15. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Great story. Great story.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Well, there's more to the story, but I'm not going to share it for the sake of others. Yeah. It actually could be a pretty good story, but sometimes you sacrifice the content for the people, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
What? No. Is it the Aflac goose? That's like a commercial. That's a goose, right?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I feel like you're describing Aflac commercials and calling it a meme. That's my guess.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Does he say Aflac? Because that's the Aflac duck.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, yeah, yeah. I've seen this. What's in the jacket? What's in the jacket?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That's what everyone wants to know right now. Did I make it clear that that was the interesting part of the story? How my phone broke? Did I make that clear? I don't know. It's clear now. How'd your phone break? Anyway, let's move on. That's funny. I don't get, I don't get what's in the jacket. If I'm being honest, like I don't get this specific version of the meme.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I get that. This is like the meme template, but whoever made this one, the what's in the jacket, I don't get it because I think it's a goose down jacket.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, I see. Is that what it is?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
They can talk.com. Interesting.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, we have a new president or an old president. Oh, that's true. We have a new president-elect. I mean, the politics happened. Do we want to touch this with a 10-foot pole or do we want to just skate on by? I want to talk a little bit about Guillermo's tweet. Let's do it. Oh, I saw this. And I'm like the most disconnected I've ever been. And I even saw this. Yeah, I got to say, I don't get it.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I don't get why people freaked out about someone congratulating the new president. I feel like that's a thing people do every single time there's a new president. And people who everyone respects, if Obama does it, everybody's like, cool, love that guy. But why did people freak out that Guillermo did it? I don't understand it. I get it if you don't like Next.js.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
The caching policies drive you crazy. But really, I don't understand it. I don't get it.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Would you say it's been the toughest week of your life? Or maybe not.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I was just going to get real spicy and say, it's just childish. You just look like a child on the internet. If you're like, shame on you. What are you talking about? I don't get it. I'm not a Trump supporter, but I don't get like, you said the name Trump. What a loser. What is that attitude? I just don't understand it.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
hours that led to difficult sleep and then i woke up and then everything was resolved by then but uh okay so it's just it's just embarrassing for me particularly it's embarrassing so i'm so excited okay we'll we'll do my thing first and then we'll come that'll be the comedic relief uh yeah okay i'm not gonna beat around it just like i'm gonna get into some stuff it's this is our podcast i like we can talk about what we want and it'd be weird for me i like i
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So you actually think the response, the people getting upset about it, that they have valid criticism?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I guess that's my thing. I guess it's just this formality in my mind that people congratulate the incoming president, not like... I didn't read it as Guillermo like endorsing or saying, I think I am on board with everything this person stands for. It was just like, I think the fitting in thing makes perfect sense because it just felt like a kind of tweet you see from like Tim Cook.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like, congratulations, Mr. President.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, that's exactly how I viewed it. And then for people to like, it just feels a little virtue signally when people are like, shame on you. And I don't know, it's probably some of my friends. I'm sorry if there happens to be a Venn diagram of people that listen to this show that are my friend that also tweeted in response to Top G. I'm sorry. I don't dislike you or I'm not... I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I'm just walking back all my spicy. Just forget all the spicy. I said, you're fine. It's fine. I just don't, I don't really get the, uh, I don't know. I'm going to flame somebody. Cause they said, congratulations, president Trump.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Come on, Trump.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
They need your help.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Definitely outside normal. I also feel like it's not going to get any better over the next 20 years. I just feel like...
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
normal that ship sailed a long time ago like our our political sphere is so far from normal at this point i mean i think like that like the democrats are just gonna keep losing because they're trying to play like normal games and at some point they gotta learn the lesson though and it's not just a normal thing for me so jay posted a bunch about this uh they didn't just lose
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
As you'll hear, one thing I'm really focused on moving forward is being okay with being myself and just having a life where I'm the same to everybody and I'm not pretending ever to be something. So we basically would just have to cancel the podcast if I didn't talk about this stuff because there's no way I'd be able to get on here and not just be fake and pretend to I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Well, now I feel like you need to say it because I mean, it's probably not obvious to me.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Do you just not know? Do you not know how to pronounce Kamala? Cause I don't either. Kamala Harris. That's the one.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I know, I didn't know that you had this tie until like the day of the election. That's so cool.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I mean, it sucks to lose, but it's so cool that you have that tie to a losing politician.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
My problem with the Democrats is way more like Grug Bane. You're probably on the hoodie guy and I'm on the far left of the Grug meme or whatever, the bell curve. Mine is just like, they're going against a party that's like... It's like a religion for them. I mean, in some cases, it literally is a religion for them. But they're so passionate about their candidate.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's like they would die for their candidate. And then on the Democrat side, they're just like, well, guys, here's logic and reason and why we should do this this way. And it's like there's no passion. There's no just being fired up about it.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
They got the passionate people. They just don't have anybody else.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That's like two of those three things. What's the Maslow's like hierarchy or whatever. That's a couple of the big ones. right?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Who was the VP candidate? Was he a, he was a governor from somewhere.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
All this stuff isn't going on. So this had to happen. I'm sorry if you're a listener and you're just like, I don't want to hear about Next.js because I'm a big Vercel fanboy. I'm sorry because this is going to be a little different. Yeah, so Casey and I, my wife Casey of 15 years, have been on the precipice of... ending our relationship for a week. So we were separated.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Shouldn't they like, I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
had one from Georgia or Pennsylvania or is that retrospect?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
They just kind of got swept across the board. Like four years ago, it was like Georgia. Yeah. Turns out really important. Was that four years ago? Yeah. This time, not so much.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That should be like a crazy wake up call. That's a big slap in the face for sure. I don't know how Biden became president. That's kind of wild, actually. Maybe that's also revisionist history. Like maybe he didn't seem so old and decrepit when he ran, but yeah, I'm pretty simple. Are you old and decrepit? I'm out. Sorry.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That was a rough situation all the way around because like, I remember when the talk was like, they could never remove Biden. He's never going to step out. Like, this is just what they're stuck with. And then when it did finally shift. Yeah. It's like, how do you prepare that late in the game?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Biden did everything different because the support, but like also, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
No, I hear you on the consecutive terms thing. In fact, I think I heard it on like a 538 podcast. They talked about the trend. It's like, it's what you said, the attention span, but it's also the like distrust and authority. It's like basically every incumbent government, everyone's like, nah, you're not it. Like we don't trust you and you had a chance and you failed.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
they're really trying to go for the win like if you're like i need to win i need to figure out what to do to win yeah you would do almost nothing that they did uh i just wish they would focus on on winning more go for more of them yeah it seems like a good strategy i mean really if you're to focus on winning i feel like if you're gonna focus on something you should probably be winning i don't know uh i just went like 15 seconds without without saying anything that was just for fun uh
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, I think like more of a boom busty kind of like I play fantasy football and you have players that like they're going to get you nine points and it's not going to be exciting and you're kind of going to hate that they're on your team, but like whatever, they're going to get you your nine points. And then there's people that could get you 25 points or they're probably going to get zero.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Are you saying like when you say go for the win, is it like get somebody like that who's kind of polarizing and like a a big swing and a miss kind of potential, but could be a home run.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Isn't that a song? I think I made that one. Did I make that one up?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That is a song. It's like an old, old song. I think. Was it really musical today? I know. I keep singing. Uh, maybe that's my new identity. I'm going to be a singer. Maybe you're in a good mood. Maybe. It's kind of crazy given the last 24 hours.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
This is very, it's going to get very confusing. It's like the friends, uh, Ross and Rachel stuff. We were on a break and then we were separated and then we were maybe closer than ever. And then yesterday was very close to looking like it was over, over, over divorce over. And then today we're Once again, the best it's been. I can feel you right now.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
politics too like it's very advanced now yeah that's a great analogy actually uh it's like in the 50s you could be a professional football player and you're like smoking cigars at halftime and you're like drinking a can of beer and then you go back out after the first half now it's like elite, elite nutrition. Everything is perfect to hone those little tiny advantages. That's dead on.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Well, even like you look at the Olympics that come around every four years, like the swimmers, they all have the like perfect swimmer body. Like they're proportioned to be an Olympic athlete. Like you can't just be born with like long legs and suddenly you're going to be an Olympic swimmer. You have to have the like giant upper body, tiny little like dolphin legs or whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like everything now, it's like it gets more and more refined and more competitive. And yeah, you're right. That's how politics should be. Like you got to get up to that level of challenge if you're the Democratic Party and you got to say, this isn't the 50s anymore. How do we compete at this elite level? That's a great call.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
A lot of people talk about, I feel like as a layman that doesn't really get into political science, a lot of people talk about the Democrats being like bad at elections, but they win sometimes, right? Yeah. I mean, Biden. Who was it before that, I guess?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Obama, right. Before that, Bill Clinton. Clinton.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, there's been some Democratic wins.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. He kind of had the wider appeal. He could appeal to people that were a little more in the middle.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I don't know. I'm pretty sure we don't have any boomer listeners. I'm pretty sure. I don't think they listen to podcasts, if I'm being honest. What about your mom? I don't think she listens. I don't know. Mom, do you listen to this? Let me know in the comments. Like and subscribe, please. I don't actually think my parents listen. No, I don't think boomers know what podcasts are even.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I don't think it's like on their radar. They listen to like Sirius XM. They have like satellite radio. They don't listen to podcasts.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Actually. I don't think about how old there are. There are so many people in their seventies, eighties that are voting that like, uh, We are basically a different species. I mean, like, we have nothing in common with that generation at this point. Like, they're far removed from our modern society, right? Like, is that ageist? I don't know if I'm being a horrible... I mean, it's just a reality.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Just like you're so in the dark because we didn't, we haven't talked since yesterday. And yesterday was the, we haven't, we haven't talked since eight hours ago. I know. And eight hours ago was the worst it's been. Oh man. Okay. Maybe we don't want to spend that long on this.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
yeah i don't think about like the gap in ages you got 18 year olds voting and then you got 75 year olds voting kind of weird actually like to think that that group of people yeah would all come to like a common solution and for me it's less about the voting and more about the literally being an office thing oh that that is nuts to me there should be an age limit if we still have this problem like 75 year old people running for president
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Again, in 10 or 20 years, that 75-year-old person is not that weird compared to... It's more of our peers than... Or at least less of a gap. That's an interesting thought experiment.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Do you get really dry this time of year? I guess Miami's really wet. Do you ever get dry?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I'm looking at the shine in your head right now. That's funny.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Okay. Well, I have to like slather, uh, like lip balm on my lips. Cause they're cracking like the corners of my lips. Like I can't open my mouth very wide. I remember that.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You got that in New York or something?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I don't want to be racist. That's a terrible way to start a sentence because it's like sure that you're going to say something racist after that.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Well, I don't want to like jump to conclusions, but I know like different color skin has different properties. And I just wondered like when you lived in New York, you see you, you do get dry skin. You don't really burn sunburn except for that one time. So I just didn't know if like, I don't know, your skin is just naturally moister than mine and it just never gets dry.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Just from being in Miami. Where you're from in India, is it... Like a warm tropical climate? Like what kind of climate?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Got that little slice of home.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Uh, maybe. Oh, I think I'm flooding with good memories right now. Yes.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's very similar to Rollercoaster Tycoon.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I do remember this. That's you.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You're in your correct habitat.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Had you had that thought before or did that one just click?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Maybe I can just kind of give you the rundown and then like, if there's something good that comes out of it and we can hit on it, but at least I've acknowledged it. Uh, yeah, basically I just, I hid from my wife. I just haven't been myself in some ways and like things that I was holding onto since like college. Yeah. I mean, I've, okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That's too funny. Can we, we got to get the guy. I'm sure he's done a lot of podcasts. The guy that made roller coaster tycoon and assembly. That's like a legendary story at this point, isn't it? I want to hear from him. I want to hang out with that guy. Who is he? I wonder how old he is.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. Mr. Tycoon. Right.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Who are like the legend? Like we got to have more people. Sorry. I know you're just, I just blew right past that joke. Sorry. We got to have more people on the podcast and I don't know who people would want to hear from. I mean, I can think of people I'd like to hang out with. I don't know if you're a listener of the show and you want to like email us at something, something at tomorrow.fm.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Shoot us an email. Let us know somebody you'd like to have on.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Are you breaking up with me?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
What type of guests? Oh, like famous people?
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, I don't want to interview. I want to hang out. That's a good point.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like when we had Pocock on and we're just hanging out. It's like just peers that are at the same kind of stage of career just talking. That's perfect.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's kind of dumb, disingenuous reasons that I would want to have well accomplished people. It's just for numbies, you know, it's just like, I want downloads. No, I just want somebody whose people are going to see the name and be like, oh, man, I got to listen to that. But if it was just about the enjoying the show, you're right.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I played a video game in college that I failed out of college over and then hid that game from her subsequently a few times in our marriage and This last time, it's just whenever I get really stressed. Basically, when there's a lot of stress in my life, I fall back to this thing. And it's not a thing I felt I could share with her. And it was just rough. I hurt her a lot.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I mean, I enjoyed listening to DHH talk straight 90 minutes without getting a breath in. That was fun. But if I'm being honest, the Pocock thing, people who... I mean, even having Taylor and Ryan on, they're people that are in our... They're definitely more accomplished. They're more accomplished, but they're in our stage of career. They're not retired. They're not like...
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
on Mount Rushmore or whatever.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. Yeah.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So let's, let's just have, yeah, let's just have peers on. We need to just have the whole terminal crew on. We've never done that. Right. Just like have us all five. I guess it'd be really hard to have five of us on.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It'd just be fun. I mean, it'd just be like, whatever. It's maybe it's a train wreck, but people listen. Yeah.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I guess we should get off here. I have no idea how long it's been. Cause my thing is broken. I hope it recorded. How come you don't have to pee?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I'm a new man. I no longer have to pee. Think of all the productivity.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I actually think there could be something to that. I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor. I can't rule it out. It's possible. Or maybe you were nervously drinking water. Maybe.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I think it's a simpler explanation that we're recording at a weird time today. And this is not the time of day I pee constantly. I pee a lot in the morning right after coffee. Like, I drink coffee and then I have to pee every 20 minutes for like three hours. And then I'm good. Like, all afternoon I haven't drank anything. So... Has it been an hour? How long have we been talking?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I have no idea because I have to get my boys off screen time.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I think I've heard. Sorry. I think I've heard her say theories like this where she's like, I have a theory. I can hear her doing that.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I love this.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Is it just romantic relationships or just friendships, everything?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Just to be reminded of the smell. Yeah, just to like, you know. it's funny. We don't like, uh, Casey's pretty sensitive to like fragrances, like chemical fragrances. And we don't wear like cologne or perfume. All of our cleaners, we just use like, okay. Yeah. We just use like a vinegar for cleaning solution.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like we try to like, so when somebody comes over and they've got like a lot of perfume on or something, it's like, it's in the house for a couple of days. And it just like, It's very stark when you're not used to it.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
In the process, we've learned a lot about each other. I think in some ways, we've grown closer through all of it. And yeah, I'm really optimistic now. So... I was really optimistic a week ago and then we almost got divorced yesterday, but I'm really optimistic now. So I think things are better. We want to work through it. We want to do the work. We've got therapists.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's really interesting perfume and cologne. Did you wear cologne like growing up, like in high school? I did, for sure.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
High school boys. Is there a weirder subgroup than high school boys? I feel like that is the... So embarrassing. ...strangest. It's the most embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for high school boys right now, whoever they are. I don't even know them.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Well, actually... Yes, they have the broccoli haircut. Have you seen this? Okay. Like I go to my gym and there'll be like eight people there and six of them are 18 year old boys with that haircut. It's insane. I don't know if it just hit the Ozarks late. When did everyone get curly hair? I don't know. They have to be like perming it or something. They're doing this on purpose.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
There's no way that many kids have curly hair. I'm just, I'm convinced they're all going in perms and then they shave the sides. It looks ridiculous. I don't know how to like reach out to that generation and just shake them and say, listen, it's not good. It's not a good haircut.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Ours were the frosted tips. I had like the blonde frosted pointy. You had the blonde frosted? Oh, yeah.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, yeah, the rooster thing. That was our generation, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's funny.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You could have had the broccoli cut.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Man, I really, I wish I didn't have to just put a hat on all the time. I'm going to shave it eventually because I just never want to fix my hair. So your hair is the dream. Like just shave it and never had to fix it. I guess you have to shave it.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
We've got all the things, the resources we need to figure out why we had these barriers between us. And I think we're going to make it. We want to work through it and we want to be together while we work through it. So we're not even really separated now. That's the progress. We're back together and I think we're on the right track. Okay, that's all.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Well, you look good bald, so I feel like it would be a waste to ruin that for the rest of your life.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
He was like, you have a head that looks good shaved.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, so you never have to shave again.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, my word. Where do you live, Bex? It's not real. This is...
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, man, that does sound. Yeah, I wish they could make it where your hair like I want my beard to just stay the length that it gets and then like not grow. Can they do that? It'd probably be really bad for you if they could. They'd have to like radiation or something. I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That's so funny. I didn't do my hair today. Just, I don't know. It's like, I got to do my hair, Casey. I'll be right back. I mean, that's, I guess. No, I guess that's what it is. Is that weird? I'm not someone that understands this world. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's just like, it sounds like what my grandma did to her hair. She'd like do up her hair. I feel like the bald is really good on you. The only thing I would say you could add, have you considered being Jewish? Have you considered like converting to Judaism? Yeah, because I think the little cap on your bald head would be amazing. I think they'll look good. Just give it a whirl.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That is really great.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You got the beard and everything. Just try one on. If you like it, you can always just do the Jewish thing. Can you become Jewish or is it only if you're born in a certain place? I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Oh, interesting. I hope I didn't just offend people. I feel like there's certain things, if I just say certain words, I'm not sure. I'm so uncultured that I just don't even know. So I'm sorry. I love all people. All people are great.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I think it looks best on bald people. I think some people... You don't have to be bald to wear a yarmulke, right? It's not just bald people. Okay, I'm going to stop offending people.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Maybe it's not.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You think that's what they invented the yarmulke for?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
That's interesting. Interesting theory. I have a theory. Okay.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. So everyone like on the political spectrum, like if you're on the right or the left, you should all be offended. Feel bad.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Uh, okay. I think my boy's got extra screen time. You're welcome. Podcast listeners.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Do you want to know what they watch? Well, actually I'm blanking. It's like every combination of two animals. It's like shark dog and like,
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
tiger boy I don't know it's like so many how many shows you remember when we were kids and we watched like Saturday morning cartoons and it was like Power Rangers or this other thing this I was talking about this other day there's so many shows that I watched and I found like I didn't like the aesthetics like it made me uncomfortable but I watched because it was the only thing the only thing
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, we had to learn a little perseverance. Now our kids have hundreds of different shows they could watch. It's insane. Netflix just cranks out the cartoons. I feel like they can make them even easier than like live action stuff. Yeah, there's so much stuff on there. It overwhelms me. I mean, I feel that way about normal Netflix. Just like... spending 15 minutes at the beginning.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, because I think I realized the value is in acknowledging it and not just pretending for the rest of the podcast. Yeah, I know. So it's like, I don't need to go through the whole story. You guys don't need to hear about when I was 16. We don't have to go back to the beginning. It's fine.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's like, what are we going to watch? And you just never feel good about it. There's something there. Figure that out. I don't know. I feel like they could figure that out.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, I mean, it is a form of entertainment. They do the little preview even, like they start playing stuff. You can kind of get a little taste of a lot of stuff. Yeah. All right. Uh, cool. I don't know. Uh, I think I forgot that we don't know how to end episodes, so I can hear my child screaming. I'm going to go. Okay. Bye.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
You mean like struggles, things that define you? Or what shit is it that you speak of? It's always so weird when I say a curse word because it just comes out of my mouth so unnaturally. What shit is it you speak of, Jax?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Did you kind of hear me, like, on your shoulder? Dax.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
It's the ghost of Adam haunting you. This is not an episode I thought we would record. I mean, like... Not what we're going to talk about. I don't even know what we're going to talk about. I just mean, it's not an episode like today. I kind of thought I was going to need another week and things fell into place at the last minute. So here we are.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah. And I think some of the things you've said to me, and then I had coffee with my brother this morning, I think all of the inputs I've gotten helps triangulate some thoughts. And it's some of what you're speaking to, like the big problem between me and Casey is, It does feel weird to do this on a podcast, I guess. Like, this is so... I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
This is like... You're getting the real inside baseball. You're getting stuff that... I mean, Casey, you're probably... Casey's gonna listen to this, I'm sure. I hope I didn't misrepresent anything that we're talking about here. And she's open to me talking about this on the podcast, by the way. I guess, like...
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
one of the things that I feel like broke today in our conversation that kind of like broke in the right way, like toward the right thing, uh, is related to some of the feedback you've given me that just realizing how much of my last decade with Casey, since we've had kids and things got stressful has been spent.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like I've been twisting myself internally into this pretzel trying to just make her happy, but in like superficial ways, like ways that I think are just like the low hanging fruit ways to make her happy. Uh, Like, I've done so much to try and like... Just be, it's the hero. I mean, it's, I have this hero complex, the hero role or whatever hero child.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I don't know if anyone digs into psychology or has had someone tell them they have this. Well, we have it together. We are the hero children. Basically just like have to put all things together and make it look really good and feel really good for everybody on the surface level. I've just, I've had that.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
And it drives so many of my decisions with Casey and it to the point of being unhappy and not even really being self-aware enough to know how unhappy I was. some of that stuff. Yeah. It's the blaming myself. It's all of it. It's all very related. And Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't work. We both acknowledge this marriage doesn't make sense if we can't fix those things.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So it's still a long road of becoming these new people that we need to be to have a healthy relationship. We kind of both agree that just what we've had is no good. I mean, there was good. No good is the wrong term because there literally was a lot of good. We got two amazing little boys. There's plenty of good, but we want to start over. We want like...
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
to just forget everything, all of the trauma and the pain and the things that we've created. We got to start on a new foundation. So anyway, that's me and my life and the crumbling walls around me. I just made that a song. It's not even a song. I don't know. I was uncomfortable. Okay. So I started singing.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Like getting a dog or something? What do you mean?
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
This is what we thought a week ago when this all went down. We thought, okay, we need to separate. We need to start new habits. And that separation will help us break out of the current cycle. We did some things. I mean, I've been sleeping in the basement.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
among other things uh we changed up our schedule we created like a more strict schedule that gives us both the time that we just didn't have because we sort of like both i think we both just kind of like we're the martyr and like trying to sacrifice ourselves to just make sure the other one was getting what they need but like we're both unhappy and we both feel like we never have time on the schedule that's like our time so we kind of like created that we did some things anyway we did some things
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
And now I feel like we've decided the separation, it wasn't helping because it was already, like we were falling back into the same patterns anyway. So we're kind of like, F it. Let's just actually be together while we figure this out because I don't think what we did was helping. Now, a therapist might tell us, you need to do X, Y, Z. And we'd be very open to that.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
I think we just both now after a week and how much up and down pain there's been, we just want to figure out how we can do it, but also be together because we feel like we need, we need something. We need that from each other, I guess. I'm probably misrepresenting all this. I'm so sorry, Casey. That was probably terrible. I don't know. I said the wrong thing. One thing that's stuck in my head.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Hey, look, you're doing the thing. You're doing the thing you just said. I'm blaming myself.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
We're about to skip a few weeks. Who knows how many weeks. Actually, you know what? This has been like the toughest week.
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Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
Yeah, I think that's when I said superficially making her happy. I know I'm not genuinely creating real happiness or joy or anything. It's just creating... a comfort for today. Let's just feel comfortable in this moment. So yeah, I recognize that's... I got to get rid of that. The one thing I am... The thing I'm hanging on to in my mind just today, so not...
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
creating a bunch of different life habits to try and shake up the brain. But I'm just thinking I'm very hung up or very concentrated on the idea of one day at a time. That's so cliche, but I literally need to have a constant check-in with Casey right now to, to just make sure we don't slip into patterns.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
of my life uh that's pretty easy to say even not even like close and i'm actually really proud of me for not like melting down publicly i didn't have any like serious thought did i did i tweet anything that was just like irreparable damage to my reputation or something i don't think so I think I managed. Oh, did I? Am I forgetting? I would forget something like that.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
So one thing that's changed dramatically just today is I do feel like I can tell her everything. And I have started telling her everything that I felt like I had to hide before. Something has flipped for me that like, I'm going to be myself. 100%.
How About Tomorrow?
Offending Everyone by Sharing Tough Moments, The Video, and Politics
And if that means she doesn't want to be with me, then that's better than this life we've built over 15 years where I'm just going to hide the things that I think she doesn't want and try and be the thing she does want. That is gone. I will not do that anymore. And I think that's the main place it shows up is with Casey. I don't want to do that with anybody. I don't want to feel like...
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Adam couldn't make it today. He did this really fun thing where he was like, oh, I can't make it on Thursdays anymore. Can we reschedule to Wednesday? And then I rescheduled to Wednesday and he goes, okay, cool. Can't make it then either.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
there's like great infrastructure as code tools out there like Terraform. But again, the same trade-off, it's more configgy. So if you have like conditionals or loops, it looks a little weird and it looks nothing like the rest of your code. So bringing a lot of stuff into JavaScript is really nice because you immediately get all the return complete stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Like everyone needs to do conditionals and loops, no matter what type of thing you're building, like you're eventually gonna need that. And two, everybody knows it. I think the part that we've seen is tricky is even though we've given you the ability to do like a normal programming language, you should still like kind of chill out with it.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Like you shouldn't like, you should still kind of treat it like it's config. You shouldn't like, Like, we see people in their infrastructure stuff with SST. They build, like, these crazy abstractions and, like, they build all these packages that are reusable and all this stuff. And it gets really far away from something that really should kind of be like config.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
So, yeah, it's just that, like, you give people more power and it's good. But, you know, you got to make sure that they don't create the same mess that often happens everywhere else.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Oh yeah, that's a huge thing. That's kind of what I mean by it takes you out of it. With normal code, there's just such a history with it. We all know how to write it. There's all this stuff we collectively learn over time on how to collaborate on it, how to test it, how to make it reproducible. There's so much knowledge there, and I think a lot of...
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
tools try to like remove code uh and replace it with something else and there's some benefits of that but like you're throwing away like such a deep understanding and also tooling like editors are so tuned to like some of these popular languages um and just having all that stuff work out of the box for everyone is uh is quite nice the other thing i wanted to talk about was um you said it's been seven years as working on this uh
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, I just want to highlight how long something like this takes. I think people conflate this idea of you need to build something, get it out there, and get feedback. That's good, but they kind of conflate that with... And then it all works out really fast also, but like this stuff takes a long time and it takes like commitment to doing some of this stuff. So yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
How, how has it been just, you know, it's been, it's been quite a while. You've been seeing this and working on it.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
That's what it seems like. And we're just going to go with it. He really, we talk about this all the time. He hates conflict and he hates people, this type of situation. So it would bug him a lot if... that's the conclusion you came to. So that would actually be great.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the best parts about working on something that takes a long time. Like you said, you get less than a year than you thought, but then in five years, you're just like, what the hell? And I think it's because...
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
stuff compounds and it's like so hard to really imagine the power of that it's i'm sure you think about you know where you guys were like seven years ago and like how difficult it was to do anything and then now you're just like what were we doing back then like why are we going so slowly you can't even like understand how much things have compounded how much easier it's gotten uh like for us when we went from the v2 to v3
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
that was after several years of like, kind of like rotating around the space and like understanding it, like not really getting the primitives exactly right. Then I think we got the primitives right. And just in the past six months, like we've done so much more than we've basically done in the entire history of the company. Cause everything now is set up for us to go do. And this stuff is,
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
just takes a long time um yeah i was surprised at the gpu stuff too i'm like uh like i was kind of surprised how fast all the ai stuff came together um given that like crazy i mean all the is has been really crazy so um but yeah i mean that must be the result of like all the work before then
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, that's something we should talk about. I think that was maybe one of the more I mean, you guys said it for Friday, so, you know, is what the containers platform stuff was one of the bigger surprises, I guess. Because it now puts Cloudflare. In a completely different zone, I think for a while.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
everyone was kind of able to understand it as this is like a new way of building things. And if you like agree with this new way or that you want to commit to this new way, then you can go build with Cloudflare stuff. But then introduction of containers means almost any kind of way of building can work. So we did a similar shift to where we started really serverless focused.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And there is like a large growing number of very big, serious companies that build that way.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
but it is an uphill battle and that you're trying to like change the habits or like here's like a new way of doing things here you go learn all this stuff and you agree with it and you go do it uh and we shifted to now like we've done that for a while so like there wasn't much to do there anymore and now we started to support container stuff more and it's a totally different experience it's like
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
There's no one to like explain anything. There's nothing to explain. There's nothing to teach. It's just this is the way most the world operates and they just like use it and they get it. And it's much, much less of a battle. So I think it's going to be interesting to see when Cloudflare containers comes out. I think something similar will happen, obviously, on a much larger scale.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I think the main it's more like if it just feels different. So what feels different about it is I suddenly feel like I'm talking to a thousand X more people. And I think that's just what happens when you break into a bigger market. I realized before I felt like I was talking to a lot of people. There's a lot of people that build stuff in a serverless way.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I didn't really feel like, you know, it was necessarily small. But the reality is the people that want to deploy containers, it's just so much bigger and it's hard to even fathom. And we're seeing people from other communities that have nothing to do with JavaScript. They're putting stuff together. Someone's working on a Laravel setup with SST and our container stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And that's just so outside the range of... anything that we generally think about so yeah the surprise has just been like wow there's like a lot of people out there i feel like now we're finally seeing like everyone and our whole thing has always been progressive disclosure which is we don't want you to have to like
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I am so bad at keeping anything quiet. Like when I'm excited about something, I just, I mean, you guys see what I'm like on Twitter. I just start posting about it right away. So like, I'll make like 3% progress on something and I'll just want to announce it already. So yeah, it's like hard just keeping things under wraps because I'm sure it's really exciting.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
learn so much up front or like change it we want to give you an incremental path to using our stuff uh and over time we need to design a progressive disclosure thing where like you start to learn the things that are useful to know and you start to get more advanced and you start to use other things that you necessarily didn't know coming in uh and i kind of see containers in the same way i think based on probably some of your team and based on that blog post i think probably similar where
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Doing a container option means it's a no-brainer for a lot of people. Existing workload, existing way of doing things, they can just go use it.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
But now they also have the ability to pull in these other serverless things here and there, which even for me, I'm working on something right now that is going to be container-based, but I need to be able to spin up a lot of headless browsers, and that makes way more sense to do in a serverless way.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
So like being able to mix the two and giving people the ability to do that, I think, you know, over time we've just realized like the more options we give people, like it's just, but we'll start to do funny things with it that you don't, that you don't imagine. I think you'll, you'll see that too.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I think you'll see people mixing containers and durable objects and all that stuff together in really unexpected ways.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
It's a very long detailed article, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
it's a lot more actually interesting and opens up more stuff than people think yeah it's funny when i told frank uh about the cloudflare container stuff the first thing he asked was uh oh can we run cicd there because we we have a cicd product and it's like it's weird like ci is such a commodity but it's annoyingly difficult in a lot of ways because uh there's just these funny traffic patterns with it too like sometimes because of uh the panda bot or whatever like the github thing
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
It has a schedule and it'll like end up triggering a bunch of our customers CI stuff. So we'll just get like a burst of a bunch of jobs randomly and being able to like one CI needs to run anything because people can do literally anything in their CI. You have no idea what they're going to put in there. So you can only use compute. That's like very flexible. But like.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
making sure you have capacity to handle like peak versus you know what your average load is uh especially when it's not predictable yeah it sucks we actually ended up deciding for like the next version the more newer version of our product we run ci inside the end users accounts at least for aws because just trying to manage like a centralized ci service it's just so much so much work um but yeah something like this would be super helpful because there's not a lot of options for
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
on-demand containers that you can just that can kind of like run anything yeah there's yeah so i think there's gonna be a lot of use cases that it opens up and again i agree with you that doing all these cool like next-gen stuff does require rethinking how you build things and adopting a new architecture and a lot of that is service related i think a lot of discussion never even gets that far it gets stuck on like really basic things like pricing or like do you need scale it's kind of the tired things we see all the time but
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
That's not really the reason I even shifted there. It's funny. I think the thing you said about Kubernetes reminded me of this. So for a long time, anytime I built something, I would just get generic compute and I would throw Kubernetes on it and then schedule everything through there. That's how I built everything. And what was nice about it was I never have to learn anything new.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Like I knew that I can throw anywhere, whether it's AWS, GCP, whatever. Then I joined this team. And for the first time in my career, because I'd always worked either on my own companies or early stage,
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
had a dedicated devops person so it wasn't my job to figure that out cool totally fine with that uh and i was looking at what he was doing and he was using uh aws ecs fargate which is like a managed container offering so you're not doing any of the work just you just have a container and you pay for it and i asked him like this is like three times as expensive why are we like why are we doing this versus the thing that i've always done
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And he said something to me that like totally changed the way that I looked at everything. And I felt so stupid for not thinking about it this way. He was like, so at the time we were actually building out a payment processing system. So we had to go through all of the compliance stuff for it. He was like,
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, you're talking, he was like, you're basically describing like a $15 a month per container versus like a $45 a month container situation. In the $45 a month container situation, we get to go tell all the compliance people that we don't have access to the servers. And that is literally worth like tens of thousands of dollars.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
So like not have to be like, here's how we're hardening, like that whole thing. Right. Um, so that, like you said, like comparing the five hour VPS thing, it's not really about the little cost of the compute. It's about.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
security questionnaires you get when you go what talk to like a big enterprise company it's about like the compliance stuff being able to say like i don't have access to any of that stuff like eliminates so many of the questions so much of the burden and that it felt silly for me to like bring up like a 30 difference you know in the face of that um yeah ever since then that's when i start to open my mind to okay like if i do more serverless stuff
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
All of these problems I've been dealing with my whole career suddenly got. And there's a lot of things like that that go away that I don't think get talked about a lot.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, it's funny because I think, I guess now that you say it like that, this maybe is more common than I imagined because AWS has their re-invent thing once a year, but it's become such a common thing for everything to get announced beforehand. There's a good term for it. It's called pre-invent. Everyone's like, oh, pre-invent season is here.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, and the other thing is, and you talked about this a little bit earlier, when your team size grows, it's just always a negative thing. There's benefits to it, but there's always a permanent negative thing when there's just more people involved.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
So sometimes for me, I'm like, even if it's cheaper to hire people to do it ourselves, the fact that we can keep our team smaller, that's worth some kind of crazy intangible amount. Yeah, I saw this at my last company where... we did something where it made us a lot more money. We like in-house something that made this again, this payment thing, it made us like a crazy amount of money.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And like on paper, it like made total sense. And nobody would really think like, of course, like everyone would just, of course we should do that. Like we're making all this money. but it like grew the organization. Like we needed to bring in people on the engineering side, which meant we needed more people in the recruiting side, which meant we need people, more people on the HR side.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And that's when you hear about everything before the actual launch. So I guess, yeah, I guess everyone is just the same. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And then, then we needed like more data engineers to handle this stuff. And again, it was all extremely profitable to do, but it kind of permanently changed the culture of the company. And I always wonder, it's not like we would have been sitting there doing nothing. We would have been working on something else instead.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And I kind of wonder if we could have worked on something that was a lot more differentiated. Um, But yeah, it's hard to see past the direct, this is technically more expensive than if we in-house it. There's a lot of these intangible things that come up.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
The closer it gets, the harder it is to keep shut.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, and this stuff is so complicated because there are ways to... If you have a very traditional application and then you move it to the cloud, you're going to look at what you're getting and you're going to be like, this sucks, this is a scam. It kind of is. You're just paying for regular servers, but like... 10x more.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And your applications are very traditional applications that can literally run anywhere. So why would you pick to run in the cloud? So I totally get that perspective. I also get the perspective that not all serverless is the same. There's a lot of stuff that has... been serverless and is like really out in the world as like, this is a service way to do it.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
That doesn't have a lot of benefits of being serverless in terms of like the cost being basically super cheap or the capabilities being really powerful. And so people have an impression of what serverless is that isn't necessarily like
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
accurate representation of it so um yeah i still really even though with our shift to like working on stuff outside of serverless and and i think same for you for all of you uh i still like believe in that model and there's just so many problems that now that i'm doing it i'm building something that's in a container way again i'm like i just saw this problem an hour it's like okay this thing can get like a burst of requests
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And then that's just going to overwhelm the whole system and nothing's going to work. And like I'm remembering that was like 80 percent of my work. People always talk about scale where they're like, oh, yeah, you got to keep scaling things up and up and up. A lot of times my work was like, how do I slow shit down so it doesn't overwhelm the system?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And shifting the serverless like made that possible.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
like kind of go away and now i'm like back dealing with it again so yeah it's what you said like people are used to the reality is you can get good at anything like whatever technology you're using there's stuff that is particularly good at there's stuff that's bad at you spend enough time with it you're gonna get good at mitigating bad parts and taking advantage of the good parts so
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
That's true of everything. So I get why if you're used to something, it doesn't feel that bad because you've gotten good at using it. But you can get good at using a new thing too.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. It's funny. It's funny you bring up Apple because I was thinking about them, too. I have this weird I had this weird thought the other day where I'm like, Man, I don't know anyone that works for Apple. And that's not exactly true. Like, I have here and there run into people that work there. But I feel like people join there and they just disappear into a void.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, and I think the other interesting thing, I mean, you have this perspective, I have this perspective too. We just see a lot of companies building in all sorts of ways. So in a lot of discussions, people describe like these horrible scenarios of like, it just makes it seem like this stuff can never work out. But like every day we see, you know, thousands of companies that,
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
are on their own making their own like rational decisions for whatever makes sense for them choosing to build in a certain way and it just works uh and it works particularly well again building it in all sorts of forms so you just kind of get less i guess for me it's just like the way people this stuff is described you feel so exaggerated because like
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
they're just people doing this every single day and they like never, they're never like introspecting. Like, is this right? Like, is this great? Like there's not thinking about that stuff. They're like, it's just never comes up. Yeah. It's hard to like get a sense for that when you just are seeing the discussions around these things. How's New York?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I know it's getting fall time, which was my wife's favorite time of year, but I think it's a lot of people's favorite time of year.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. It's funny because I'm such a little like... I'm like a little baby with this stuff where I'm like the moment it gets a little cold, all I can think about is that means winter is coming. So I could just never enjoy fall because to me it was like a impending doom. It was like a sign impending. Exactly. That's all I could think about. I'm like, it's coming. It's coming again.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
It's going to be horrible. But most people, I think, know how to enjoy it. People love fall in New York.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. My favorite part of New York was I had this like crystal clear image in my head because I feel like it literally happens this way every single year. You'll be the winter and all of a sudden one day you leave. It's like nice. You leave work and it feels like some AI generated scene because it's like everyone's walking around happy, eating ice cream.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
There's like people skateboarding and everyone's like it's like 4 p.m. and everyone's kind of already out of work. And so the most idyllic scene you could possibly imagine has happened every single year. And I like clearly can remember that.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And, like, you just don't know anyone that works there. You never hear about a single thing. So, yeah, how do they pull that off when they're, like, also one of the biggest companies in the world?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, I know. It's a, yeah, I think that's a nice thing about having seasons. There's like these rhythms to it. Now that I've been in Miami for two years, I guess maybe two and a half years or so, It's funny because it feels very different. It just feels like one continuous sense of existence. There are seasons, but I don't really perceive them that much. And it feels totally different.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
It almost feels like time is frozen. And there's things I like about it, but I can see how it might drive people kind of crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
yeah oh yeah the produce stuff is i mean yeah i think we still have like seasonal eating here too but uh is it weird to eat i i don't know pumpkin soup when it's like 85 90 degrees okay this is what i was gonna bring up this is the this is the weirdest thing for me uh because i grew up in the northeast from the ages of 5 to 30 basically within the northeast
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, it's I don't know. I definitely couldn't work there because I'd be like, guys, look, look at this thing. Yeah, I think both strategies work because obviously you get the big single day impact when you're quiet. But then a lot of these things, especially developer tools like People might get... I think it's different than you see an iPhone and you're like, I'm going to buy it.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And there's this permanent thing in my head of it's Christmas time. It's snowy. People put up Christmas trees. You put up wreaths and it feels a certain way in Miami. Guess what? They do all the same stuff. They put up wreaths, but it's like 90 degrees and it just looks like I think aesthetically it just looks it just feels wrong.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I think innately you look at like all those green like Christmassy plants and stuff and it's
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
just does not make sense and i wish people here would stop like my wife says uh the northeast has like a monopoly on like holidays basically like the whole country like orients towards like the northeast version of of the holiday where i'm like this makes no sense like this this looks off like even seems to christmas like like the red banners and all that, it just feels totally wrong.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And I feel like we should just come up with our own thing that's totally different. It just feels off.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I know, it's horrible. And then like in fall, people were like, where Flano? And I'm like, you are melting in that. Like, that's just not the right thing. But yeah, it just somehow the Northeast has that influence over.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, exactly. I was going to bring up the same thing. I met someone from South Africa who worked with me and he was like, oh yeah, Christmas, like watermelon and barbecue. And I'm like, what are you talking about? That just sounds insane. But yeah, it's all flipped.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
just like I to be honest I still like refuse like my brain like understands it's real like the same way I understand that dinosaurs are real but like I'm just like no they can't have really like it just I don't it doesn't really make sense in my head I feel like I need to go there and be there to understand it and that means like our summer holiday I guess our summer holidays are I guess like specific to the U.S.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. So today we have Rita joining us. Rita works at Cloudflare and Cloudflare just had their birthday week last week where they announced a bunch of really cool stuff. And we've been friendly for like a while now. And this is kind of overdue to hop on here and have a little chat. So how's it going? How are you doing? Are you tired from all the birthday week stuff?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
like uh 4th of July but yeah then their summer holidays are like cold
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
really weird i feel like this is not talked about that much like half of the world is on the opposite schedule and we never talk about it yeah we're very northern hemisphere centric yeah we're like it's getting so cold and meanwhile the other side of the world it's like oh yeah we're looking forward to summer well it's wild you're gonna be out here in a Next month. So November 18th.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. I haven't been cold in a very long time. Like physically, I haven't felt the feeling of cold.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
So my experience in New York was so I lived there for 10 years. The first five or six years, I was just like, I'm just going to layer up. I'm just going to layer. And that's how I'm going to deal with the cold. I'm going to keep layering. And it just never layered well. And I was basically like freezing the whole time. And then finally, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to give in.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
You see it, you're going to buy it. Whereas developer tools, you see it and you might think it's cool, but you're already working on something that you're not going to drop everything and switch to it. So I think the transaction times are longer. So just... like having stuff trickled out and staying on top of people's mind, I think, uh, does make a lot more sense for, for dev stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I'm buying one of these crazy expensive, like meant for traversing. I don't know, like the North Pole, South Pole, whatever, jackets.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, exactly. So I went to that company, Arcteryx. I don't even know how you pronounce it. And what's cool about their stuff is that it's pretty lightweight. I bought it and I was like, oh, this is why I was so miserable the whole time. I can literally wear a t-shirt and put that thing on and I'm good. Like I'm good for the whole winter. It's such a good jacket. So I have that somewhere.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I don't think November is cold enough to justify that, but I'm probably going to wear it just because I don't want to feel cold at all.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
it's uh it's just like i just didn't know basically most of the time i lived there maybe like seven percent of time i lived there i just didn't know how to dress properly for the weather so i got i got that jacket and i also got one of those uh those crazy hats that made with the raccoon fur look like that and they're called heaters you you have to bring that out here for sure
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I'm going to bring everything. That's like that was like my setup. And once I had that, I was like, I am never going to be cold again. It's a solved problem. Like you have the technology to be warm. You've got to commit to it. Also, it's like so worth it, too, that the jacket was like,
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
thousand dollars which seems like a lot but i use it for five years it still looks brand new and it basically you know like saves my ass for half the year so yeah i i was thinking there must be some comparison there to be made with like servers and serverless and like amortizing it over the cost part yeah yeah a lot of life is just biting the bullet and just doing it my yeah like
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Liz refused to make this shift because the reality is, is like the thing I hated about the winter is it's just so bulky. Like everyone's just so bulky. Like everyone's like wearing all this stuff and like you go inside and everyone's like taking off layers and like piling it on something.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, exactly. And so for her, she's like, none of those jackets are like cute. So for her, she was just like very much resisting that. And she was just always cold. So that's a challenge.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
everyone gets to see your outfit you look cute because it's not hidden under you know your tundra jacket so yeah yeah and then in the winter i would just i would literally i've gone like 10 days without leaving my apartment and stuff i would just hide inside so it's not the i think just was not the environment for me but you know i do miss it i think uh i'm excited to be back there and November.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I was back. Oh, yeah. When I met you for the first time, that was my first time back. And you might have experiences like this, too. I was walking around and I just like these flood of memories come back. Like I walk down streets and I like remember all these like random things from years ago. And it was a really crazy experience. That was my first time going somewhere where I used to live.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And it sounds like you've lived in a bunch of places. So you might have. I mean, when you were when you were in San Francisco, you probably had a similar experience. That was my first time. And I was like, felt really crazy. Like I never had something like that.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I think it's okay.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
person then and yeah you just kind of become that person again in a way or yeah yep exactly it's a very out of body feeling yeah it was also kind of overwhelming i was like after two days i was just like i kind of want to leave like this is uh this is too much because that's the only place i'd ever lived you know so it was like a lot of very intense uh but i am excited to to be back in November.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I think you'll probably, you're coming to our, our event we're doing, right?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I think what we're going to do is we're not going to say anything, uh, but we're going to be building stuff for it live two days before. So whoever joined is what you were saying before. Like if you're paying attention, you're going to know what we're doing. Um, but yeah,
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
I don't want to officially announce it because during the event, I want to start off with a series of misdirections where it seems like I'm just going to tell you one of them. I'm sure a bunch of people aren't listening to this. I want to start off the event and I want to thank everyone for coming.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
And I want to be like, okay, today we're here to discuss the caching differences between Next.js 14 and Next.js 15. I'm going to pull up a slide deck that has like 200 slides. I'm going to start like going into it.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
so we want to like you know just throw people off but uh yeah i'm looking forward to it me too it's gonna be awesome yeah all right well thank you for joining today this is fun yeah we're all super excited about everything you're working i haven't dug into any of it yet but i'm gonna do that tomorrow today or tomorrow most likely um have a whole list of things to go through and i'll probably do it on stream again nice yeah so much of our team tuned into your last stream and we're all like
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Cool. All right. Well, thanks for joining.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yep.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, it's funny. I think no matter how much progress we make, whenever we launch something and someone actually uses it, I'm always like, Really? Like, you actually used it? Like, it's always surprising, you know, that you get, like, people building real stuff. And, yeah, it's always surprising how far people go with it in such a short time.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Especially with stuff that, you know, like I said, we, like, we're, like, very public with everything we build. So even when stuff isn't ready, we'll see people grab it and, like, take it kind of, like, way too far. Like, maybe more far than I would say, like, you should even be doing right now. But, yeah, there's always people that'll do that. It's super motivating to see.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. It's like if you put something into API, someone will use it and become a permanent thing, like no matter what, even if you don't attend to. Yeah, I don't. There's a name for it. I'm blanking on it, too.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah, I know all the laws. I just never remember the names. They're all familiar, but yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Yeah. Okay, so you've been... So how long have you been at Cloudflare again?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
That is so crazy. Okay, so I guess eight years ago... There's obviously been this... effort from Cloudflare to build, you know, like a Cloudflare platform for people to build applications on. That probably started around eight years ago? Like, when did that really start?
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
yeah the being able to like program your cdn thing it's it's interesting the way you described it because we basically saw the exact same thing on the aws side we had you know we're helping people deploy all these things behind a cdn and they kept being like well i want to do this if the user it speaks this language or i want to do this if they're from this country and i want to like redirect them in this place and it just becomes
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
it's funny how like a whole computing platform came out of that need until it makes total sense. Cause there's just infinite custom logic people want to apply. And yeah, it was the same thing. Like, you know, initially it was just, you had patterns and you can like send them different places and like, maybe like rewrite the header somewhat.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Uh, they eventually did add like a computing thing, but it's, it's so hilariously limited. It, um, You can run logic when a request comes in, but it can only run for one millisecond. It has one millisecond runtime limit. And it's like a, you already know this, but I'm forgetting the engine. It's not like, it's like a very slim down. It's not like Node.js or like worker D or anything.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
It's like pure JavaScript, like no other APIs, nothing. And even that like unlocked a lot, but yeah, it's just not enough. You need like a full thing eventually.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
Nice. Yeah. So when you all plan something like this, how long of an effort is it? Is it like...
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
yeah and you can't change this is a huge issue we can't change the origin so if we want complex you can change the path you can't change the origin so if you want like to build like a complex routing logic you just can't do that yeah and for the longest time they kept directing people to lambda edge but that runs like, after the CDN. Like, you can't change a lot of things.
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
So a lot of this stuff feels like they stumble into a problem and they, like, do a quick reactionary thing. The thing you brought up with VCL is funny because I think this pattern shows up in a lot of places. There's something called VTL, which is a...
How About Tomorrow?
Rita Kozlov on Building In Public, Cloudflare's Birthday Week, and How Long Software Actually Takes
same concept in aw i mean it's i think the velocity template language or something um but aw supports in a bunch of places where instead of like writing code you can write these config things and like you said it's very i think it's very expressive but not like really that expressive and almost nobody knows how to use it and the upside is it's like it's quote unquote just config the downside is like nobody knows how to use it it like looks different than the rest of your code it takes you entirely out of like the mindset you have when you're working on other stuff and our son that's seaside
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
You're sick of it. This is our last episode ever. We're not going to do this podcast anymore. Adam doesn't want to talk to me.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
You know what's definitely on other podcasts? It's the whole DeepSeek thing from this past week.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's not really practical. I mean, it's like a reduced version of the model, and it's very slow, and the hardware requirements are pretty crazy. So no, you can't.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Is it commercialized in any way? There's like a hosted one from the company, but it's in China, so people feel sketched out by that. But then it's been re-hosted because open source has been re-hosted by a bunch of providers that you're familiar with. Like Cloudflare, I think, has a version of it.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
There's been a few others. I don't think it's good. Oh, really? Well, it's like not better than anything else. It's just a... recreation of what's already there.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I don't believe any... I mean, it's just like... None of the information about it is true.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I just heard it's cheap. They're claiming they did... They're claiming they trained the model for $5.5 million, which is like... a crazy uh man like several orders of magnitude less than what OpenAI's models costs. Everyone was like dunking in OpenAI.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So the reason, it's very noisy. There is true interesting things that they did. Like, so you can't take that away from them. Like, it's impressive. But that doesn't mean what they're saying about how it was done is true either. The numbers are just like way too much of a lie. Like, there's no way that one, they're that low. Two, there's a lot of reasons for them to make it up. Right.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Liz's friend is having an engagement party. So we're going for that. And then I'm going to visit AJ while I'm there. Nice. We're going to hang out on Friday.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Well, China's not allowed to have certain DPs. What? Because of the export.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Because of the export controls.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
On paper, NVIDIA is not allowed to export... certain levels of GPUs to China.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yes.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So they can't be like, hey, here's exactly what we use if they're using a bunch of stuff they're not supposed to have. So that like throws a bunch of punch into this.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, yeah. We banned exports of GPUs above certain capability. Okay? Okay.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
There's another interesting fact that someone pointed out recently that Singapore is 20% of NVIDIA's revenue.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Singapore is like a very small island nation in that area.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So it's China adjacent. Why would they be 20% of NVIDIA's revenue? That's a little weird.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
These export controls practically are just not...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
effective like it's like how do you exactly we're talking about earlier like there's always going to be a way if you're sufficiently motivated to to get these things um and of course there's something around it i could just buy a bunch of them and take them to china there's no one at china in china at china there's no one at china that's gonna stop me bringing them in right it's just that america is supposed to not the u.s is telling nvidia you can't do this um
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And the other thing I was thinking about was like, man, what a deal of the century. You could just be the dude in Singapore smuggling this stuff, adding a 20% whatever. And that's like, it's like 20% fee on like $20 billion of GPUs. Like that's, that is crazy. That is really wild.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So the point is there's like so many reasons why one, they wouldn't say to like, well, sorry, one, they couldn't say what they actually did. And two, like, there's a lot of reasons to just, and that's what they always do. They always like lie about the price of things to like create, uh, just competitive noise in the market. Yeah. It's a good strategy. It works.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
If you literally put the paper into DeepSeek and talk to it about it, you would learn more than just listening to people talking about it. Yeah, probably.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
He is a listener. I'm sure he'll hear this.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
They talked about their techniques, and their techniques are interesting and novel, so you can't take that away from them. But then they separately claim that we use these techniques on this hardware. to achieve this outcome. But there's so many ways to lie about that.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Not until after we hang out. That's true.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
The thing is, if you... Okay, let's say someone told you that, hey, I can... run a SQL query that filters a trillion rows in half a second. right? You, as someone that understands this stuff, you're like, I'm not even going to waste my time reproducing that because that makes no sense. Okay. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, I mean, just because it's such a hyped space, it's so hard to tell what's real and what's not. And also, the noise comes on both sides. So remember that we're saying novel because it's been published publicly. We don't know that OpenAI already ran across this and is using it to develop their stuff, the techniques in there.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So this might not even be a surprise to them as much as be, oh, they like independently came across the same techniques and they know that, yeah, it's not causing like a thousand X decrease in draining costs. But then the other noises, and so now, and this is a part where I'm like, okay, this could be noise from the other side, but I did think about this when it came out.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I just listened to talk about whatever you want. Good.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
OpenAI is claiming that they have proof that DeepSeq was trained on outputs of their models or of like some maybe potentially like unauthorized access to stuff from OpenAI. Okay. And there's like some like, again, this doesn't mean anything, but like.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
like the pseudoscience part of this is people were able to get DeepSeek to reply and make the exact same mistakes that O1 makes, which seems like maybe it's a coincidence. Maybe it means something. But yeah, the point here is like, it's just such a crazy hype space with a ton of money that there's like zero ability to draw any kind of, this is what's happening right now in the moment.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's just impossible for situations like this.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
You know how Sam Altman is. He just did the whole, like, generic, wow, it's really impressive, and I'm invigorated by the competition. You know, just like the fucking, he, to be honest, ChatDBT is more human than Sam Altman already. Yeah. Did you see what Claude did to me yesterday? No, what? Did you tweet about it or something? I can't believe it did this.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So I was trying to deal with, again, bringing it all back down to earth. I was trying to insert something into a Postgres database. And of course, on conflict, you want to do an update operation. Of course. I'm used to my SQL where you can just say on any conflict, do this operation. But on PostgreSQL, it specifies like, oh, when this conflicts, do that. When that conflicts, do this.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But I was like, OK, can I just on conflict on anything? Is that possible? And Claude, in a single reply, writes out, hey, yeah, you can do this. And then it writes out the query. And then right after it does that, it continues writing, being like, just kidding. That syntax doesn't exist. What? It said just kidding? Oh, my God. This tweet has 5,000 likes. I didn't even notice. What?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
that's hilarious yeah what it's funny because we're so used to these models being quirky but like think about this in a traditional product like imagine you have a product and you have a button and the button is like click here to do something useful and you click it and it pops up being like just kidding we don't do that like that that would be so ridiculous to actually ship something that did that yeah uh like that's something the terminal would do
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
but this is like in in claude and to be honest something i just i've just been annoyed with claude more and more for the past couple weeks and this to me was like same this is like the final straw where i'm like you're straight up just joking right now like i i'm gonna actually consider i think i'm gonna stop paying for it i'm gonna re i need to like reassess what i'm paying for yeah uh yeah because i just keep signing up for them and then it's like it's easy to forget what
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
That's what I was wondering. Is that the case? And the more you use it, the more you understand the boundaries, like...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Is it just a feeling? Yeah, I'm on the side that it's just a feeling. I mean, I think I would doubt that it's that clear cut. Like they must constantly be optimizing or like playing with the amount of compute they're allocating to inference. And there's like ways to like kind of make it more efficient for you to run.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
They have to balance it. There's no way that on day one of releasing something, they nailed it and they never have to tweak that. I would be surprised if... there's not any thing where they explicitly know that, oh yeah, we did this because we made this trade-off. But I do agree that it must be a psychology thing as well, because if I really think about it, the thing that's not static is...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I'm trying to use this stuff more and more. And it's really hard to keep track. You know, it's that thing where, like, everyone's like, oh, yeah, I know what I eat every day. And, like, you know, like, I know I eat this many calories or whatever. But then you make them write it down. You realize, like, it's so different with people's, like, perception of how much they eat or what they eat is.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So I think it's kind of similar where I know that I'm using it, trying to use it more and more aggressively. And I know over time, as I get more comfortable with it or, like, becomes more and more of my workflow, I'm definitely pushing the boundaries of it more. That just happens with any tool. So it's hard to say that that's not a factor.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
We've moved on.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
By the way, it just straight up smells like fire in my house right now. So I hope I'm not burning down. Yeah, that's not great. I think it's because Liz turned on the heater and like, you know, how's in Florida? You're not really supposed to use the heater.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
They still allocate most of their stuff to training, not to inference.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Okay. Yeah, I mean, it just makes sense because why when... If you don't win the model battle, the inference, the fact that people are using your product is kind of irrelevant. So it doesn't make sense to over-allocate there.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I mean, in the end to me so far, and I felt this from the beginning, this feels like the worst part of the sack to be in. It is the most difficult and the most expensive and it is the most like commodified. So yeah, I mean, I think the thing that people point out with deep seek is like, It's impressive to create something as good as open AI stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's totally realistic to assume making a model that's 1% better than open AI stuff costs like $50 billion. Like that's like totally realistic. And that's like an argument in favor of being like, this is why open AI will, you know, it's not really a threat to them.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Simultaneously, it's also like condemning this entire business because it's just like if it's going to take that much capital to make these marginal improvements and it's like a crazy competitive space where the costs are being driven to zero and all these companies are competing. Yeah, it's just... I don't know. To me, it never made sense.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
If I was an investor, this is not the part of... And I want to bet on this AI thing. This just feels like the worst place to put your money. It's so intense. So capital intensive, right? Yeah. When I see that, I'm like, I need to invest in someone that benefits from... having access to cheap AI models, not the people building the cheap AI models. And yeah, like VC Twitter, like it's funny.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
They just go on these little things. And currently they're on this, they've swung back and forth. And currently they're all saying, oh yeah, like the application layers where you're going to make a lot of money. But like, you know, a couple of weeks ago they were saying the opposite. But I do, that does make more sense to me. Again, it's not,
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I'm not taking the moonshot bet because the moonshot bet is you invest in open AI and they eliminate the whole economy, which I get. And I like bets like that. It's just for me, this one is not the one that that would go for. Yeah, there's something like less crazy is probably going to be the outcome.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
One last thing on this. Yeah. I did come across something today. Do you remember Mistral?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Okay, so... Where'd that go? They're like, this is maybe the worst company fundraise of all time because... They raised, like, $150 million on, like, a $300 million valuation or something. What? Like, gave up half the company? Yeah, so they, like, gave up half their company. And, like, that is nowhere near enough money to, like, play in this game.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, exactly. Oh, jeez. What the fuck are they going to do? I mean, maybe they're like a French company and maybe it's just like they're just going to serve the French market because I guess the company's there.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
That's possible. But again, like you just get away with it if you need any more money.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
If you need one million more dollars, like what? What deal are you going to make?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I desperately want that not to be the case. And I think in a lot of ways, it's unlikely that there's nothing out there. But man, given just the size of the universe, when I say nothing out there, I mean, even if there is, it's not in our... perceivable universe or whatever. And like, you know, the galaxies are separating faster and faster over time. Right. So like, there's no way we'd ever reach.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah. So it just feels like, I don't know. It feels like a, I just get like a much, I get like a negative feeling. feeling towards that whole thing. It feels like so impossible and unlikely, but again, not based on science, just based off of how I feel.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Because there's new space being created in between them.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
If you map that to velocity, I guess.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's like if I magically created...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
The Anthropic CEO seems solid. Like I don't get a sketchy vibe from him. He was always trying to like, I feel like he's trying to be really practical with how he talks about all this stuff, which is pretty different for most people in this space. So yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But if it's moving faster... Yeah, unless you, like, do something crazy, like you violate or, like, you have a completely new model that, like, just... Yeah, it just totally breaks that. But, yeah, outside of that, you know, speaking, quote-unquote, practically, whatever that means in this space, like, yeah, maybe our galaxy is explorable.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And, man, like, even that just feels like... I can see there being nothing there.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's like... How long stuff has been around for.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
this is all just like different answers to the Fermi paradox thing. But to me, I find the problem with the Fermi paradox, which is just to reiterate, it's a given the size, the age of the universe, we'd expect it to be like full of life, even how like long stuff has been around and given how much there is. And there isn't. So then you ask, okay, what are some explanations of that?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And there's a lot of good explanations. That's a problem. There's so many good explanations and they could all be true, but the result of all of them, is that life is exceedingly rare and you're unlikely to intersect with it. So that's what kind of bums me about this concept.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It bums you out because it would be nice to like... I don't want to die, but if I'm going to die, it's because of an alien invasion. I'm kind of down for that because at least I learned something deeply important for a few seconds before I get wiped out.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
interesting okay yeah like i don't want to die in like car accident like it's done oh yeah no that's terrible like yeah like i want like if i'm gonna die at least give me some crazy existential moment okay yeah what's your like top three ways to die what would be i'm sorry yeah yeah no i got you existential dread and etc etc okay anyway so
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
No, I told you something that you can't repeat. Oh, yeah. It's not public information yet.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, so the way I look at it is there's a new capability. Again, this is, I would categorize it in two categories. There is the boring parts is what we're talking about now. And this is the bet that society will continue to be roughly the same. And this isn't like a...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
know truly disruptive like a totally disruptive thing um you're speaking to like the bolt-on thing or you're speaking to like the commodity of like foundation you're just talking about like building a traditional product but thinking through ai that's like a not very bold like way of looking at all this so part of me like doesn't want to engage with that because like i said i don't i don't believe so far in that it's like much bigger bet
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
but i believe generally that's where you should put your attention and things that kind of fall in that category that said let's say this this ends up you know not being that crazy thing and this is a way this is the direction things go so right now we're in the era of there's a new thing and nobody knows how to build good ux around it right there if you imagine when like the iphone came out
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
pull to swipe or sorry, pull to refresh. Oh yeah. Someone had to come up with that. And the moment they did, it was so obvious. I think we're like in that phase where almost every single product that added AI is just a stupid ass little button that's on top of other shit. And it's just kind of getting in your way and you're always accidentally clicking on.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So that's just like, that's the era we're in. But at some point we'll see stuff that is like, oh, obviously. And I think we're actually already starting to see some of that stuff. Have you seen this Granola AI product? No. Okay, so I think it's a brilliant example of what you're talking about, rethinking products from an AI lens. And they did it in a way that is very well executed.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's not the first thing you would think of, right? But they were like, okay, problem existed forever. how do we make people who take notes for meetings, how do we make that easier? Boring problem, been around forever, years of products that do that. Bunch of AI products that do that, right?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
There's a bunch of AI products that are like, I'm Bob the AI and I'm a bot and I've joined your Zoom call and I'm here to take notes. And it's just like, Weird, totally unnatural, not relating to your current habits thing at all. Weird social norms around it. Like it's just not a good way to introduce this idea to people. So what this product does is it runs on your Mac.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
it records all the audio from your, um, your meeting. Yeah. From anything that's happening. So we're like, we're also in this era where like no one's doing like direct integrations anymore. Cause AI can just handle a like raw input. So if you can record audio from your Mac, you now support every single app.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
The box, right? Yeah. This shows up in a bunch of different places. Uh, when people are putting AI products, uh, It's totally invisible and it's totally out of your way. They give you a typical notepad you take notes on. Okay. You take your shitty little notes, you know, you comments here and there, whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
When the meeting is done, AI will go through your notes and augment them with what it knows about the meeting. So if you're like, oh, priority, it knows what you were talking about. saying this is a priority and it'll like make your notes much nicer and just like a one-step process. So it doesn't feel like an AI product. It just feels like a magically good product.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I take notes with the same habits that I've had forever. And then at the end, I just get much better notes than I would do with any other app. And I think this is kind of what you're talking about where they're re-imagining it and they've done it in a way where it's not like, you need to chat with my AI bot, right? It's like totally invisible. Super smart.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So I think we'll start to see products that they are technically powered by AI, but it's invisible. The only way you can tell is the outcome or the quality of the product is much higher just because all of these structuring unstructured data problems are like effectively solved now.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I do think, though, that people should be aware that this isn't a reset to, like, 2010. Because in 2010... What was 2010? Like, you know, it was a similar situation. Like, nothing was built and there was, like, all these opportunities to build these pretty, like, basic, straightforward applications.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Just, like... More internet, more web, more capability of like SaaS, like was kind of created in that era, all that stuff. Gotcha. In that time, you were shifting people from not using computers to using computers to solve this problem. So as much as it feels like, oh, we're in a reset and there's always a new opportunity, it's not the same because you can't just deliver an MVP. Oh, sure.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
You can deliver an MVP in 2010. But if you want to build a new email AI product, you need to build something as good as superhuman, as a floor. And then you can do...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Innovative, right?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Okay. It's still going to be quite hard just because the bar is very high to get something to switch from something that just out of all the normal app features are pretty exhaustive and work pretty well. That said, that side of things has also just gotten easier to do as well. But yeah, I am feeling this with Radiant because yeah, categorizing financial transactions was very, very difficult.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
like prior to AI. And now it can do like a really good job. Even like a shitty thing I implemented, I like was able to go through my stuff with like, and I've done this for years, right? Like I manage all my business transactions. I've gone through every single one of them for years and years. And just having AI do a first pass and then me doing a second pass, it's much better.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And this is just the beginning of all this stuff. But we still have to build like the entirety of a straightforward app. And you have to do that while the incumbent fails to do the new thing, which I think will happen. It's just, you know, not as easy as it seems.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
That's a good example of something that works because those table stakes scope is really small. And they benefit from this new dynamic of not having to do 100 integrations with every single, like we support Zoom, we support Google Meet, we support whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, so let's say you're like, I mean, let's say we're not actually doing this, but for Radiant, there's 5,000 financial accounts that we need to support for all the various places people have their data. We could just send AI to go like,
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
visit the site for you and like figure out how to pull out your information instead of like mainly doing integration with which is each thing because i can operate at like a like one level down like it doesn't need an api a developer needs an api like an ai agent like in theory doesn't need one so you can kind of like give it a general set of instructions that'll work on any raw input so anywhere where you like needed all these like nice clean integrations that you can probably make do with
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
a much messier unsanctioned integration. Interesting.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
The other side of this, though, is if you look at a lot of these products like granola, like there was the other one that I forgot the name of it. It records everything. It takes a good screenshot every three seconds and then like has AI index it. And you can ask it like, hey, what was that thing I read the other day about whatever?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So you see how all of these things are native apps at the OS level. It just brings up the question like, isn't Microsoft and Apple just going to bake these in?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, if you think about this stuff, we're getting these one-off solutions that people come up with, but at the end of the day, if it was just integrated at the OS level, it would just work everywhere and kind of be just a lot more awesome.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
apple intelligence should do that stuff if it ever actually does anything sucks apple intelligence sucks but in theory this doesn't even work yet like i don't even think they did they like turn it off because it was like doing bad things i've had it for a while and i have not used it once i think somehow it's made things even worse i feel like i used it even less now than i used to I don't know.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, we'll see. But I will say this. This type of thinking is new for me where I'm like, see how I described a very clearly good opportunity. And then the ideal, which would be like, you know, Apple, Microsoft integrating, but that ideal might be 10 years away. So there's still plenty of time to make money, you know, successful in that time. Yeah. But I've like shifted to like not.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
If I can see the ideal and it's not aligned with what I'm doing, I just don't want to work on it. It just feels bad to me now. Even if it's 10 years, you just don't want to invest in that idea. Yeah, I want to have a real shot of... building the ultimate thing. Even if that means, even if the opportunity is great, otherwise.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I'm just saying. I was the only one that remembered the meeting. Yeah, that's true. That's the funny part. There was no meeting. We have weekly Wednesday meetings and I was like, oh, I can't make it. So I posted at 2.30 when we have the meeting. Hey guys, I can't make the meeting. And nobody else said anything. The meeting didn't happen. So everyone missed it.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I was the only one that actually remembered that it was supposed to happen.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's funny. There's something else I wanted to talk about. It's totally unrelated to all this.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
yes uh i posted a video last week or was it earlier this week no it was it was on sunday post on sunday best video i've ever made in terms of oh really views yeah i gotta check out the sst youtube a video again i think it's it's really not the execution of the video i think we're just picking like some pretty good topics what's your handle i did it i did it just
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
What? Really?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I mean, I guess.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
You don't have to look it up. I'll just tell you.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, it was. I think a lot of people were waiting for it, which is why I think it did pretty well. So this is our best performing video ever, which we're really happy about. I love the title. I don't use my computer. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah. So YouTube comments. Let's talk about YouTube comments real quick. Oh, yeah. For me personally, this is where I experienced just like. the dumbest of all humanity. I think it is really wild that people like I've been on Twitter a long time. Of course, I get dumb, annoying comments there, but YouTube somehow just consistently tops it. It surfaces persona that I run into a lot on the Internet.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And to me, it's like a very miserable persona. It's a persona of someone that thinks that every single thing they interact with is a scam somehow. Like they're like, they're so eager to be like, I think what's driving them is they want to feel like they're smart and they like picked up on something that everyone else is falling for.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But they're so desperate for that moment that every single thing that they perceive, they like project onto it that, oh, this is like a scam somehow. Yeah. So a bunch of people were just like, this is an ad or like, They were talking about how, like, I only do this because it's free. Because I mentioned that my server that I use now is sponsored. But, like, I've been doing this for years now.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
ReliableSite, yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But, like, I literally was paying for it before I got that deal. Mm-hmm. And also in the video, I outline how you can start really small and the entry price for this. Again, people love saying $5 VPS. It's just a $5 VPS. Realistically, maybe more like 15 for something that's decent, but reasonable price.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But everyone was just like, as soon as their brains work together, like, oh, this is the angle. A bunch of comments were around talking about how like, I was trying to trick them into doing this because it's expensive.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And I'm just like, how, like, how do you go through life like this? Like everything must be so miserable if you're just perceiving it as like every person you interact with is trying to rip you off somehow, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
That's funny. What's even at the top right now? I think one of those is probably at the top.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I don't really understand the lower levels because what is... Does he talk about what practically is the difference between that and someone publishing a book? that has instructions on how to make smallpox?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's not free, but like... It's not free?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
You have to pay for... It's not crazy. Yeah, it's not that expensive. I just assumed it was free. It's just so miserable for me going... Yeah, this is like another point of... for me, which is being very dramatic. Just dress around my editor. I really like NeoVim and it is truly incredibly productive. But this cursor style of thing, if it continues to get better...
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
That's just going to be the most productive thing. But it doesn't address the parts that I particularly find annoying. I hate the clunkiness and the slowness of VS Code and navigating and stuff. And yes, you're doing all that less with this type of thing, but it's not taking it to zero. I don't see why NeoVim would get something that's equivalent. I've seen the current effort for it.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And I go visit the GitHub and I read it once a week. And I'm just like, this just doesn't feel like... it's going to be good. And there's so much setup involved.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I don't mind switching editors. I just wish the foundation that this new stuff was built on was not VS Code because VS Code sucks. That said, I think Zed Will probably, because they're in this hyper-competitive mode. Wait, you think they will what? I think their AI stuff will get as good as Cursor's, if not better.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
They have to be.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Right? Yeah, no, it's, it's true. Like they have a tough battle because they, okay. It kind of goes in two directions on one hand, like, yeah, it was way faster to ship cursor by building on VS code. On the other hand, I've just found as I get older, that doing the more extreme thing always ends up having a good benefit that you can't predict. So them going ground up, building a new editor,
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
way harder all the ship fast mindset would be like that's a waste of time just focus on the part that differentiates ai part but i can see how
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
integrate upcoming lms your workflow generate transform analyze code so and cursor is not a lot of features it's like a really small set of features to be honest i've never played with it i'm literally setting it up right now but yeah so i'm like okay that gives me some hope because maybe the editor experience won't suck but then it's not in the terminal anymore so then my whole setup
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
is now like a lot more confusing. Like I like having everything in a single terminal and switching between it.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Whenever I try to use it, it's like a slow piece of shit and the Vim emulation is like really bad.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Given the stakes, it's like, if you're someone that's like, oh, I want to, like, unleash smallpox on the world, but I'm too dumb, and I can't figure it out. You know what I mean? It's such an ambitious goal, so it just... Like, to be that ambitious but, like, not just figure it out without AI, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, to me it feels bad to use.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It just doesn't feel good to use. That's really all it comes down to for me. Okay, okay.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Here we go. Yeah. Zed does have this. They have their own remote protocol thing, so I could continue to effectively host Zed on my server, even though the front end of it is running on my machine. That's cool. But again, then I have to like... have like a separate terminal window, unless my terminals run inside of Zed.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
No, use Cursor and use Zed. And then go fix your NeoVim. Yeah, I need to fix my NeoVim.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Introducing Zed AI. This was, like, in August. They're definitely stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Let's go. I had this thought the other day. I was like, if you're, like, a VC-funded company... You've probably shifted towards AI. If you look at everyone's websites, no matter how random it is, they seem to really focus on AI. Most of them just took their existing slogan and added and AI to it. Wait, is that literally what Zed did? Maybe. Yeah, with humans and AI. And AI.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I saw something the other day, and I was like, yeah, I'm looking at Terso's website, and at the bottom now they have unlimited databases, personalized scale, supercharge, which, you know, probably was there before your LLM applications. So there's like that. Okay. We've all observed this, you know, whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But then I think about, okay, there's VC funding companies at this stage that had not done this at all. The guys that see hasn't done this, but like ignoring us, um, And I'm like, what is that like? I'm like, yeah, like Bun didn't go and add like the best way to run JavaScript for humans and AI, you know? That's a good point. I'm not making fun of Zed because with Zed it actually makes sense.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But a lot of just general purpose things have now added and AI to it. So I'm like, how are they thinking about this stuff? Like they're just in a way like heads down ignoring it. I'm sure they're not actually, but like, you know, their strategy is heads down ignoring it. Yeah. Oh, what?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
All right, this is probably a coincidence, but I went to Bunsite, and they have a used buy section, and one of them is Midjourney. Oh, so they also kind of... Maybe that's their, like... That's their little tip. It's just a coincidence.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Terminal uses it. Let's go. I... I think I might be the number one bun user. You might be. I think I'm the number one bun user because I use it everywhere.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I cannot stop talking about how good their product execution is. It is so good. Yeah, they're incredible. Every single time they put out a feature, I've been like, And I don't get it. And then fast forward three weeks later, I'm using it. Like it just like invisibly just snuck into every little piece. So we're launching a new update in the SD console.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
We have this workflow section that's the config where you can like set up your CI steps. And before we didn't let that be configured. So most people don't have to. The defaults make sense. But if you want to configure it. We were like, okay, how do we like let you run shell scripts, but like in JavaScript and have your own JavaScript conditionals. And we're like, okay, fuck it.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
We're just going to drop bun shell in there. So now the config is just like your workflow is just bun shell. And they already figured out all of that stuff. So really great product execution. Amazing.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yep. Yep. Yep. Cool. All right.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
No one believes you.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Okay, no, that's fine. You can go. You don't want to talk to me. It's fine.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
This is our last episode ever. We're not going to do this podcast anymore. Stop it. Adam doesn't want to talk to me.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I think this is where I would disagree with the way all these people think about it, because I feel like they look at it from this really academic point of view, which is. I have like raw horsepower intelligence and I have. you know, trained knowledge in something. And that's what gives me capability.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
But in the real world, especially when it comes to violent stuff like that, none of that matters. It's all about motivation. Like if someone is really motivated, they will figure this stuff out. It's not like the thing that was blocking them was just like, oh, I'm not smart enough. You know, it's not really what the issue is.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I will agree that like a lot of crimes happen because they're more convenient and this would make certain things more convenient. I kind of see that point, but yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, it could be fast. I mean, it was taking the current form, right? If you're someone that is trying to go from not knowing how to do this to knowing how to do this, what does North Korea have? They have motivation, for sure. This is probably like their top priority. They have enough funding to... Figure it out. So given enough time, they will. There's like no stopping that. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah. And the situation, it was kind of crazy. It was right as a plane was landing and it was a Blackhawk helicopter that was like in the air, right over the ground in the airport.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Do certain tools help them do that faster? Definitely. The same way that Microsoft Excel probably helps them figure out stuff faster.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So I get why this feels like really specific, but... If you're talking about that level of impact in the harm space, we should see the equivalent level of impact for people trying to do anything good, right? So I'm not like, I want to cure cancer. And I'm not like suddenly as a random person any closer to doing that. Yeah. So yeah, I think that side of it is a little overstated.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I think they're kind of like... I think they're just kind of in this bubble. That's kind of a little bit like, like feeding this narrative into itself. So like, yeah, that's why the whole safety thing, I don't, I don't fully get it. Like every technology makes certain things more convenient.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's a lot more convenient to produce firearms today than it was a hundred years ago, like much crazier firearms. And yeah, you have to think about it, but I don't, I just don't see that happening.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
acquisition of knowledge being the place that people get stuck it's it's usually that the u.s and like all the countries try to have a crazy strict control over the raw material need to make a nuclear weapon that's probably where the bottleneck is and even that you know the countries work around there's always someone that's against the u.s that has access and
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Yeah, I feel like this detail is kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I'm good. It's finally kind of warming up again. Like I went outside with no pants on today, which is good, but I'm still wearing, you know,
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
then yeah what's the problem i don't know yeah it's just funny because it's it's such a virtual thing it's like something that like you imagine someone going to a store and buying a physical hammer and like smashing your head in that's like so so real whereas like this is just entirely in the virtual space and it's just it's hard to imagine that uh you know it just feels like They have a point.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
It's not that knowledge isn't harmful or dangerous, but just compared to just physical... Buying a vehicle and ramming it through a crowd is just so much more effective than anything that's bottlenecked by your knowledge.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Even if it's not its own agenda, if there is some system that's not controlled by AI and now there's a whole set of new vectors of, well, how can someone manipulate this system? Just because it's hard enough for us to create security around deterministic systems. This is like a not deterministic system.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So you never know if there's a certain set of words in the right order will make it ignore all the safeguards you put in place. So that to me is like a very practical application of AI safety. And that's not even like about the AI being capable, it's actually a flaw with it being not very capable that it can be like reprogrammed by accident in these little ways.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
So I get that side of things for sure.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
He looks at space.
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
That's funny. That's pretty cool. I think there's something else. There's some clips of some other thing I was watching that was somewhat similar. So did you talk about what... What is like the primary thing they're looking for? Is it, are they looking for like Dyson spheres? Like what are they looking for?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Did you just say you didn't remember knowing what that was? Do you mean like you forgot you knew about it?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
And then they remind you that you did actually know about what it is?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
I would look for screens. I would look for... Wait, screens?
How About Tomorrow?
How Dangerous Can AI Get, Dax is Down on DeepSeak, and AI First App Development
Well, I'm going to Boston, so I have to like go and pack. Oh, no. All my like just heavy clothes from New York and my like mountaineering jacket. That's funny.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
This episode of How About Tomorrow is brought to you by Dax getting stuffed in the basketball game.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And also by Terminal Coffee, which you can order at terminal.shop. And while we cannot confirm nor deny that the coffee contains the sweat of Prime... We can confirm that it does contain the tears of Dax, as evidenced by him getting stuffed in the basketball game. Be sure to get amazing tasting coffee that's ethically sourced through your command line at terminal.shop. Now back to the show.
The Commercial Break
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What is... Dax, are you... Tracking all our cars on Carvana Value Tracker? On all our devices? Yes, Kristen, yes I am. Well, I've been looking for my phone for... In Dax's domain, we see all. So we always know what our cars are worth.
The Commercial Break
TCB Infomercial: Des Bishop
All of them. Value surge! Truck's up 3.9%! That's a great offer. I know. Sell? Sell. Track your car's value with Carvana Value Tracker today.
The Commercial Break
TCB... A Show About Friendship!
What is... Dax, are you... Tracking all our cars on Carvana Value Tracker? On all our devices? Yes, Kristen, yes I am. Well, I've been looking for my phone for... In Dax's domain, we see all. So we always know what our cars are worth.
The Commercial Break
TCB... A Show About Friendship!
All of them. Value surge! Truck's up 3.9%! That's a great offer. I know. Sell? Sell. Track your car's value with Carvana Value Tracker today.
The Commercial Break
TCB... A Show About Friendship!
So when you say suck it, what are you telling somebody?
The Commercial Break
Trippin' With TCB
What is... Dax, are you... Tracking all our cars on Carvana Value Tracker? On all our devices? Yes, Kristen, yes I am. Well, I've been looking for my phone for... In Dax's domain, we see all. So we always know what our cars are worth.
The Commercial Break
Trippin' With TCB
All of them. Value surge. Truck's up 3.9%. That's a great offer. I know. Sell? Sell. Track your car's value with Carvana Value Tracker today.
The Commercial Break
Trippin' With TCB
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof like Aloe, Allbirds, or Skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand, and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling and for shoppers buying simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify.
The Commercial Break
Trippin' With TCB
Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not-so-secret secret, with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going.
The Commercial Break
Trippin' With TCB
So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell whenever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout experience as business powerhouses like Allo, Allbirds, and Skims.
The Commercial Break
Trippin' With TCB
Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash odyssey podcast, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash odyssey podcast to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash odyssey podcast.
Watch What Crappens
#2713 RHOP S9E17: RHOPooptomac
What is... Dax, are you... Tracking all our cars on Carvana Value Tracker? On all our devices? Yes, Kristen, yes I am. Well, I've been looking for my phone for... In Dax's domain, we see all. So we always know what our cars are worth. All of them? All of them. Value surge! Truck's up 3.9%! That's a great offer. I know. Sell? Sell. Track your car's value with Carvana Value Tracker today.