How About Tomorrow?
New JavaScript Framework, Does Adam Feel, and a New Story Arc for Dax?
Mon, 21 Oct 2024
Is Adam going to leave Twitter for real this time, new JavaScript frameworks, buying zero.com, is Adam content or just busy, a new story arc for Dax, and Adam needs your help running for local government to save his view.Want to carry on the conversation? Join us in Discord. Or send us an email at [email protected]: The Last AirbenderOne, a React FrameworkZeroReplicacheOpenNextNeighborhood AnalysisTopics:(00:00) - It's been one week... (00:48) - Adam's not gonna come back to Twitter (03:03) - Time inception thoughts (07:00) - Newfound respect for education (13:28) - New JavaScript framework (20:25) - How much should zero.com cost? (24:46) - Is Adam content or busy? (26:29) - Do you always feel something? (28:22) - Would it be nice to be really unaware? (30:37) - NextJS talks self hosting (33:18) - A new story arc for Dax (35:25) - How far in advance do you book flights? (38:07) - Adam's going to run for local government (48:51) - Don't listen to this part if you're a cop (50:58) - JavaScript paintball war idea
I feel like a truck driver, like putting in an extra long haul today. Like the union's going to call about our hours. Like we got to take a break at some point.
You get paid for overtime.
Yeah. So this has been a week since they heard the last one and they have no context anymore. They're like, what are they even talking about? Just as a reminder.
I was thinking we just start completely fresh with a new topic.
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, let's do that. I don't think I'm coming back to Twitter. And it's not like I'm going to Mastodon. I'm not those people. I just literally haven't cared about Twitter for months now. And I don't think it's going to come back. I don't think I'm going to regain that feeling. I mean, I used to be addicted to checking Twitter multiple times a day.
And now I go days without looking at it. And I don't even think about it. When I do open Twitter... I scroll for like 30 seconds and I'm like, there's nothing here I care to see. And that's no offense to you or anybody else on Twitter. But it's just the same stuff that like, I'm not even drawn to like technical discussion anymore or like dev stuff.
There's just nothing that could be said on Twitter that I'd be like excited to open the app for.
Yeah, I've also am like shifting my relationship with it too. And I talked about this a while ago, but... I was like, I wish Twitter had a write only mode and like trying to like, cause to me, it's still like a very useful thing of trying to exercise like ideas I haven't like write them. So I'm like, I never want to give that part up. But I don't really need to be reading. Yeah.
It's like I just don't I just don't want to.
And in the like the hanging out thing, I used to feel like, well, I'm really just here hanging out with everybody. But I feel like I do that elsewhere now. Like we've got Discord, we got Slack or whatever. I mean, I don't do that much either. But there is kind of like lots of other ways to stay connected with people I want to stay connected to. And I just I don't know.
I don't know if Twitter is it for me. Like the memes, nothing really hits the same. It's just not the same anymore.
Magic is gone for you.
It's not the Twitter change. I just changed.
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I feel like I've had this with a few things now and they've all eventually like had a peak. So I kind of knew this isn't like an infinite thing is I always feel the same.
As I'm reflecting, it's like it was like two years. I was on Twitter actively for like two. That's like really not very long. I got a Twitter account. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, yeah. But like it feels like, wow, I can't believe I'm not really going to be active on Twitter. But like it's kind of a blip on the timeline when you think about it.
That's true.
It just feels like it was longer. I don't know. Feels like I was. Yeah. I mean, I've had an account forever.
You can't remember anything before.
Yeah, you're right. That's everything in life. I mean, high school, remember how long it felt like you were in high school. And when you think about four years now, like how minuscule that is in your whole life.
That's true. Yeah. It's kind of wild. I just can't, I just can't get the thought out of my head that it took us 12 years to learn basic math. I saw those before, but just like, it's so mind blowing to me. I'm like 12 years. Like that's as long as I've been professionally programming. I've learned all of everything I know in that time.
It is kind of crazy. I mean, the whole school thing, like just how much time now that I have a child in a school system, not at home homeschooling, like how much time is spent educating our kids? And then, like, ultimately, yeah, when you boil it down, you said math. Like, is that the main thing? Is it basically, like, just so they can understand some math?
Is there anything else we really hope kids... You gotta learn to read and write, for sure. Read and write. I mean, yeah.
Not physically write. Well, that's what I was gonna say.
My son reads books like a machine. He's read all the first, we like limited to the first three Harry Potters, I think age wise, because we read some guides that were like, don't read the fourth one until they're whatever years old. He's read them all at least three times. The third one's the scariest. The Prisoner Azkaban. Is that black, serious black?
Okay, actually, no, hang on. As a kid, I liked the third one the best because Voldemort was not involved and I was super afraid of Voldemort as a child.
Yeah, yeah.
But the third one has like... I don't know.
Is that the serious black one? Because he ends up being like a good guy and I feel like that makes it less scary. Well, spoiler alert.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah.
For anyone who doesn't know that.
For all the nine-year-olds that listen to us.
The Dementor's Kiss and stuff is like really twisted. It's like worse than killing someone, you know? That's interesting. Maybe not to a kid.
Maybe not. I don't know. He's read them all like at least three times.
The second one scared me the most. The second one really scared me.
I don't... Okay, I've never read the books. I got to come out. I've only watched the movies. When you said Dementor's Kiss, I don't even know what that is.
The second one is the... chamber of secrets where all the kids are like everyone in the school is like getting frozen or petrified or whatever yeah right i mean from the movies yeah right it's like really like it's like extremely like uh like racial basically you know they're killing all the non-pure blood people oh the muggles yeah can i say that is that okay to say that um okay yeah
Yeah, I get it. You read, Dax. You're very well read. It's very impressive.
Yes, because I've read Harry Potter like the millions and millions of other people my age.
That JK Rowling, she knew what she was doing. The writing thing though. So my son, big reader, reads a lot, cannot stand writing. He hates it. Like he hates physically writing things out. And he's kind of like perfectionist about it. And like in school, he has to like get a little extra help with writing. And it's like, for what? What are we doing here?
That is not a skill you're going to need in life. If you can spell and type, why learn to write? I don't write with my hands ever.
Yeah, I don't either. Do you agree with this? But a lot of people still do. Liz writes all the time. OK, so there's like some people get joy from physically writing. No, I just like some people are like note takers that like process things that way. So you maintain important to learn in school. I don't I don't know.
I think with some of the classic thing of like it doesn't seem to make sense, but just throwing everything out. You might like. Just miss some value of something. So it's a well-roundedness. I don't think we need to go and do cursive like me growing up. We spent a lot of time learning cursive. We got rid of that, didn't we? Yeah. But being able to write somewhat with your hands is probably useful.
There's a good amount of time you have to learn some stuff every day at school. Writing maybe makes the top whatever five, top five. So it's like might as well do it. It's not that we're trying to kill time. I actually have a newfound respect. I got to go back to an old episode where I was like, public school's dumb. Anybody putting their kid in public school is terrible and blah, blah, blah.
I said a bunch of harsh things and I shouldn't have said those things. Now that I have a kid in school, I have a newfound perspective. He loves going to school. He loves the structure. Our family loves the schedule. As much as we thought it'd be hard to have a 30-minute commute to school and two trips a day to Springfield, it just felt like this could be a lot. Everybody loves it.
It's this whole part of the day, and it brings this structure, this schedule to our day that we didn't have. So he says school is a nine and nine hundred and ninety nine thousandths out of ten. Like he's been team school ever since we put him in school. Yeah. So I have this newfound respect for like, it's OK that he spends a lot of hours out of the home and that he's thriving in that environment.
But then I think like they don't really need that much time to learn what's probably important that they learn, right? I still feel like there's a lot of fluff in a school schedule, and that's okay. But when we boil it down, at the end of his schooling, what do we really care about? I don't care if he memorizes all the world's wars and the battles.
There's stuff that we learned growing up that's like, why? I can Google anything I need to know on that front. If it's facts and trivia, I just don't need... my kids learning that stuff. So what is important? We've had this conversation a lot in my life. Like, what is important? We care about him learning math. That seems important. Yeah, I don't know. It's only a few things.
We want him to be curious. We want him to like, maybe this is like the modern stereotypical parent answer. We want him to like pursue his own interests and have that kind of like agency in life. That's what we hope he gets out of schooling. And I think this school is pretty good. I think like he's going to get some of that. I don't know. Do you have thoughts on that? Is there a vacuum cleaner?
What's going on in your house right now? Zuko, like, destroying things?
There is a vacuum cleaner, and Zuko is destroying something. It doesn't bother me. I just wondered. We had, like, an extra bed of his in here, and it's crazy how much echo reduction it was providing. Our cat peed on it, and so we threw it out. Ooh, yeah.
and she pooped on it also she was very upset once you go okay that's some spite right there yeah so i i've talked to liz about this topic because i'm like okay if you like drill it down it's like read write uh and all the way up to like right before you learn calculus i think that's like stuff that very practical yeah she has this other perspective which is kind of interesting which is
If you step back and you think about like you are the United States, you're trying to like establish a culture and like you want your citizens to care about X, Y, Z things. I think that's where some of the more like fluffy feeling stuff can fall into, like learning history or like reading some of those. Like I hated a lot of the assigned reading that we had.
I loved reading, but I hated the assigned reading. There are like certain values and dynamics that,
that it's just good to know that like okay all citizens of the us have like at least been exposed to some of these things yeah i don't know what exactly those things will be but i think it's easy to not factor like that is a part of school like you want to just make sure that people in this country have like been exposed to similar things or understand understand similar contexts yeah i guess i get that but yeah i don't know what those things would be but i would imagine if you're trying to like think about like what makes a great
united states citizen like you would probably come up with more abstract things to spend time on okay so there's a bit of like just preparing you for society to like be a member of this society there's certain contexts and cultural things that you could get out of school that aren't just like what is the most optimal education yeah yeah like it's uh i mean i i bring up avatar a lot but like there's a lot of stuff in that show that i think is like critical to the
I want to make sure I have the right thing. Avatar is a TV show? Not the movie. There's another thing called Avatar. Oh, a totally different thing?
It's funny. When you said Avatar, you talk about it a lot. I don't remember you ever talking about it. That doesn't mean you never talked about it. I just don't remember. So what is Avatar? I thought we talked about it a lot. Wait, Mindbender? What's it called?
Airbender.
Airbender.
That's Avatar?
Yes.
Avatar, The Last Airbender. Yeah, it's a full name of the show.
Oh, okay. I didn't remember that it was Avatar. I'm thinking like James Cameron, Big Blue People. That's what, when you said Avatar, that's what I thought.
Okay. But in that show, there's like a war going on and you see all these really interesting dynamics that can pop up under a situation where the war is going on that teach you about human nature and like the flaws in it, like flaw thinking, the complexity behind certain things. So...
I don't necessarily think that the average education, the education we had when we learned history, that it was like taught. in a way where that's what we got out of it. I think maybe it, like, boiled down to stupid, like, facts about the war. But I would imagine the reason you generally would want to learn about stuff like wars is to, like, understand those things.
I mean, the thing that I always imagine is, or imagine, remember, early on in that show, there's a situation where there's a town being oppressed by the invading force, and the main characters help out one of the oppressed people. The way they help them out is technically illegal. And the oppressed person turns them in.
So just understand those dynamics and thinking about like, is that person bad? Because they just like screwed people that help them. But then you realize like under these scenarios, like people kind of do these things that, you know, seem bad just because the situation is so crazy.
Yeah.
So kind of understanding things like that, I think is a good education. I guess I don't necessarily know if schools like do that with history, but I can see how you could.
Yeah. Okay. I'll stop dismissing things. That's my nature, is to just dismiss whole categories of things. History, social studies, don't need it. Get out of here.
Yeah. Pivot topics. I was looking at some of the stuff that happened in the past couple of weeks, in tech at least, and there have been a few things. There's a new JavaScript framework.
Are you kidding me?
There actually is. It's actually built on top of Xerox.
I'm sorry. Back up.
It's called one.
It's built on top of zero. What was zero? And is it void zero related? Replicash is a new thing. Oh, Replicash. Right. Okay. Yeah. Which I've been playing with. No relation to void zero.
No. No relation to void zero.
Okay. Or v0.
Okay.
Or v0. Oh, geez. That's another one. What is that? Is that a Vercel thing? That's the product?
Yeah, that's their AI thing.
Yeah. Is that like a big better? We got to circle back to that. Not yet. So one is a new JavaScript framework built on top of Zero. So it's actually good. Replicash, zero, good. Yeah. This new framework also built by the Replicash people or someone else?
No, this is built by Nate. So if you know Tamagui, it's like this CSS library. But the thing with one is he really focused on building, like how far can you push the idea of a single code base that works on native and web?
Okay. All the way down to styling.
It's hard for me to care about.
Or not care. It's hard for me to be excited about these ideas having spent the last few months in this world. I hate this world so much.
This is a React Native side of it, which I don't think... Well, I guess you technically... You have a React Native wrapped web view. Yes. But it does look pretty good. And because it uses Xero, you have like... Like your data just...
across our devices like i can see how for a certain type of product this is going to give a really good experience okay um so that was like making some ways but i think the more for me at least the more interesting part of there is the zero part which uh yeah i'm still really excited about i've been playing with it for the past two weeks what's what's the first thing you're gonna like put out there built with it a radiant
oh yeah nice yeah so we've been working on like switching radiant from repo cache to zero uh is that already i know i've seen the repo but is it okay no it will be soon once we like make that shift yeah and and zero is like officially allowed to be public uh but it's gonna be really cool i think that my long-term bet not bad but like the long-term bet not mine just like the way i understand a bet is uh
I can see how zero just becomes like a standard part of architecture. It's like you have an application server, you have a database, historically you had a cache, but now maybe the cache gets replaced with zero. So people will start to think of it on the same level as Redis. And cloud providers offer like AWS Managed Zero, like a native version for it. Oh, okay.
Yeah. Like AppSync, but good. Sorry.
Yeah, exactly. Like kind of like AppSync, but good. Yeah. So I'm pretty excited and it's, it's looking really good. Obviously love that.
I love the ideas that this brings into, like, I love the idea of not having to build like individual end points for my API and to just have this thing that I can build on top of kind of front end first local first, whatever it's called. I don't know. I love the idea.
The thing that it's, it's revealing to me, it's actually pretty funny. Uh, It makes React nice. Like, I'm using it with Solid, and I'm just like, huh. Oh. React a little more. So I'm understanding historically what has happened. React does not have good state management in it. What are you talking about? There's Redux. Redux is amazing. I'm just kidding.
It does everything native and there's like a clusterfuck of ways to do state management. So whenever you compared React to Solid, you were actually comparing React compared to Solid plus state management. Because Solid has state management built in. Like a really good state management built in. So the gap was massive.
But now you add in zero and zero is like the best state management that's ever existed because it's very queryable, syncs to your server, like syncs to like totally solved the whole question of state. So now if you're comparing React plus zero to solid plus zero, the gap starts to feel a lot narrower. So I'll probably still continue to use solid, but.
It's like the front-end just becomes so stupid now. It really just comes down to styling. Zero plus any front-end framework, all you're spending your time on is CSS, which sounds like hell, but it just means all this other stuff went away. You mean Tailwind.
I know you meant Tailwind there. You said CSS. It's okay.
I thought Tailwind was CSS.
Yeah, basically.
It's been interesting. Front end becomes really, really stupid. It's like a really, really dumb effort now with something like this.
So are there actually things Solid doesn't do very well with the local first or the zero framework approach? Is there something that React has advantages of? I'm struggling to even say a sentence. You know what I'm trying to get at?
Yeah, yeah. I would say technically, yes. I think the idea of React is it diffs your UI. The idea with Solid is it diffs your data. And diffing your UI is inefficient, like all this stuff, but it is simpler in the sense that you're never going to be diffing too much data. It's kind of hard to explain, but the React integration with...
with Xero was a lot simpler and is a lot more straightforward and it kind of avoids all these problems. The solid integration with Xero is going to be a lot more complicated. It's going to be technically better, but it just doesn't feel as like... a natural fit. In the end, they're both going to be the same. I guess it's all going to be technically better performance wise.
But there's a complexity to it that just doesn't exist with React and totally arbitrary. I think this like randomly turned out this way. But yeah, I mean, either way, I think the point here is I'm finally going to be able to look at front end and be like, this is just My brain can be totally off when I'm working on front end. All the annoying stuff is gone.
That sounds really nice. You know how hard it is to Google for one JavaScript framework? And then I was like, oh, well, I'll search for zero. And then it's like everything is just zero JS, like bundle sizes and all this.
It's one stack dot dev.
One stack dot dev. Thank you. OneStack.dev. Is there a webpage for Xero?
XeroSync. XeroSync.dev? Yeah. Oh, okay. Here's a funny question I have for you. So Xero.com is owned by Google, I think. Zero.com. Really? Yes. And the people working on Xero would like that domain name one day. Yeah. And they were wondering if Google could do them a solid. They said no. They want them to pay fair market value. That's what Google said.
What do you think fair market value for Xero.com is?
Fourletter.com. I feel like... I feel like that's going to be expensive. At least six figures, right?
What's your ballpark?
Is it, I'm going to say 2 million. So isn't that seven figures? That's seven figures. Yeah. I went higher.
Yeah. Okay. So that's what I said too. I said one to 2 million. Yeah. They actually want 500 K for it.
And I'm like, that's not bad.
That's not bad for zero.com.
Like that is like a really good domain. Yeah.
I mean, what's Google care?
This is like going back to last episode, you know, all that time ago when we recorded last episode. When we talked about the, like, how does JK Rowling care at all if they sell more merch at this point? Like, how does Google, who at Google is like, ooh, we could sell this domain for $500,000. Google, trillion dollar, multi-trillion dollar, maybe? I don't know. Where are they at now?
Like, who cares? At this point, why aren't they just like, here's the domain. What does it matter? I don't know.
That's what I thought. Cause like, uh, cause Aaron worked at Google and like, maybe they'll invest in the company at some point. It's just good in the domain, but yeah. Yeah. It's so weird.
It's just hard for me to imagine. I work at Google.
Does big companies, uh, just nerds show up just a bunch of dorks like accounting nerds and they're like we can't just give away property in the house nothing else to focus on besides being like we technically did this the correct way you know yeah i guess so that's annoying yeah uh i i will say the one framework i do love the pool ball as a logo that's that's creative I didn't even notice that.
Wow, that is clever. Oh, and it rotates? Yeah, when you hover over it.
Yeah, I know. I love that it's like a little round mark that they can use as their favicon. It's just one of those things that I think about when I make a website. It's like, what's the favicon going to be?
They nailed it with the little pool ball. And they got the one NPM package.
Like one, like the word one. So NPM install one. That's impressive, right? Yeah.
npm packages are a little less impressive because you can just like email and be like hey i want this and if nobody okay so on twitter uh somebody was like oh i own the zero npm package so i tagged aaron like the ceo of the company that makes uh zero and i was like oh just sell it to him because like this would be really cool if they have the zero package and in my head i'm like
I would maybe give it away for free. It's not a big deal. Maybe $1,000 or $2,000. I think he asked for... After bringing him down, he wants $50,000. I'm like, this is so stupid because this is never going to be liquid ever again. That's the thing with domain names. There's a once-in-a-lifetime moment where someone is willing to pay you for it.
And if you don't make the deal happen, who else is going to show up later?
What leverage does he have? That's interesting.
It's just a freaking NPM package you're not using. Come on.
That's annoying. Is it against the rules to sell an NPM package?
I know other...
other ecosystems are really strict about it because we were trying to get the python sst thing on whatever crap python thing is and i went and read their stuff yeah and like they literally don't give you a way to transfer it to someone else you have to like write to them and explain why and there's like a very narrow set of reasons and ours even ours of someone being like we're not using this package anymore and this company wants to use a name that's not a valid one not a valid one wow
What would be a valid one?
Just it's just like maintainer transfer of the same project. You can't like use it for a new project because they're like really obsessed with keeping intact, like the history of the packages and stuff, not breaking things, which I get.
But I hate name collision stuff. I hate it because it's the first thing I think of when I think of a new project, which, to my credit, haven't thought of a new thing in a long time. Can we step back? When was the last time I was like, I'm going to build this?
a while your spirit is crushed oh no is it i feel like i have kind of like changed in some ways and i'm trying to figure out what it is uh i'm just like kind of cool with like my job and just like doing one thing whoa where did this come from i just to me my my feeling of it just seemed like you're really busy and i've just been occupying your energy yeah but like i'm busy with one thing that i've decided to make the one thing i'm busy with it's like
Normally, even when I'm really busy with something, I still have ideas and the drive to build new things. I don't have that right now.
Maybe that one thing is fulfilling you properly. I don't know.
Yeah. I mean, I'm enjoying just working on my thing every day. And also, it's a season of life. With the stuff we've been going through as a family, it was based on school and all that. Maybe I just don't have a lot of extra... energy to want to put into something.
Yeah.
I don't know. I feel like I've very rarely in my career just had like one thing I was working on. It's always been.
How does it feel? Does it feel good? Yes. I always imagine it would feel really good.
Like it's, but what's weird to me, like it feels good, but it doesn't also like, hasn't really like registered, which is weird to me. Yeah. Feels like nothing. It's like, if I didn't notice, then does it really feel good or does it just not feel, maybe I'm just not feeling right now. Huh? did you know you always are feeling something? This is what Casey says.
I thought like, I'll let you know when I'm feeling something. Cause she's like, you don't really share much about your emotions. And I'm like, yeah, I don't really have any. I'll let you know if I have one. She's like, that's not how it works. You always have emotions. He's just about thinking about it.
Or like, if I'm just, I'm like, I'm like feeling an emotion right now.
Any moment there's some, you have some emotional state, but maybe your emotion is just like, contentness or boredom or not worth registering. It's not like you always have extreme emotions. Do you think this is true? Maybe this isn't a fact.
Maybe she meant it differently. I can see that. That makes sense. It's not like an on-off thing. It's like a...
I thought it was like your default state is like, it's kind of like when they used to think in physics that there was the void and then like there's places where there is stuff and there's places where there isn't like the void of space. And then they learned like, no, there's no such thing. I think I thought it was like the void. It's like the default is you're not feeling anything.
And then there's little moments of your day where you feel things. And that's the thing that was shattered for me.
I think I'd probably agree more with your wife. I don't think I ever felt like... I don't feel stuff. And then I do feel stuff to me. I always just felt like, yeah, it's like always going.
And sometimes it like spikes or like, you know, it's very encouraging to me because it means at any given time I can work on thinking about what am I feeling right now? Like there is some feeling there to like archeological dig find.
Nice, nice words usage.
Yeah. I don't think I have a lot of like emotional depth or like, I don't know. Variety.
Maybe you're just stupid.
Maybe. I'm just simple. I'm just a simple. Do you ever wonder what it'd be like to just be really simple, like really unintelligent? Would life just be so much better?
Not that like we're so smart, but like Liz describes me as very simple.
Describes you as very simple, a very silly boy and very simple.
Yes. She also describes me that way.
But like you're intelligent. So simple in the way that like, I don't know, there's probably something profound about your being simple, but you're not like unintelligent.
No. Yeah, I know. I guess what you're saying is something different.
Yeah. Now I want to know more about what she means by you being simple. But do you ever think like it'd be nice to just be really like unaware of all the things I'm aware of?
Actually, no, I don't. I actually don't. To me, that feels really tragic.
But you wouldn't know. There's a lot of simple people out there. They don't know.
I wouldn't know.
Yeah.
So it wouldn't be tragic. I do. I do know. So I see like, you know, I do see this like more objective scale of things. Yeah. And it feels really sad to like, you know, live one life and not understand as much as you can.
But I feel like I'd have a lot less anxiety. I feel like a lot of my anxieties are that I know too much.
maybe i guess yeah i don't really have a lot of anxiety so i'm not like paying the price of that i guess interesting you're just a simple man what does she mean when she says you're a simple you're just simple i think it's like i'm like really like even keel like i like just i'm kind of like the same every day and i don't really have moods as much or i'm pretty straightforward with like things i want in the physical world like you know
money yeah same cars i've got you figured out yeah i'm just easily contented i think also easily contented interesting money in cars apparently yeah yeah the dream house in the dream neighborhood with the white tesla oh no you're a simple man
in one of those really modern cube houses. Sorry. That's basic. That's different than simple. These are very different words. Oh, that's different.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you see how I got him confused a little bit?
Because you're basic, yeah.
I am kind of basic. It's interesting.
We're on two ends of a spectrum. What else happened this past couple? There was another thing I wanted to bring up, but I forgot.
I have one thing I want to bring up because I got on Twitter just to have something to talk about. I feel like I have nothing to say on this podcast if I don't check Twitter real quick. Looks like Next.js is really going for the look how easy it is to self-host. Next.js. They've got like a whole video series they're doing, I think.
A 45 minute one. Yeah. And they're being really nice to us all of a sudden.
Oh, really? They've just had like a strategy. Can you just, oh, to be a fly on the wall. You know, they were in a little meeting and they're like, okay, let's try this. Let's try being really nice to everybody that's been jerks. And also let's try to do some videos. Let's make some content. Lee, could you head up making some content on how easy it is to self-host next?
Maybe we should make it easy too. I wonder if they said that in the meeting. Like maybe we should actually make it easy to self-host.
And then make videos about it. That's actually not what happened. Some of it, I think, is. I think the video series is very... I can see how it connects to each other. But I'm trying to think how much of this I can say because I don't want to get anyone in trouble. Someone did finally reach out after all this time.
Interesting. Can I guess? I'm not going to guess. I know who it was.
I don't even think it's someone you know.
I'm connected. I know people. I have a guess. Okay, it's the one person I know at Vercel. I'm not going to say. I doubt it. Can you message me the guess?
I'm very skeptical.
Let me just message. Okay, done. No, no, no. I wonder if anyone could tell what I typed.
No, no relation to us or anyone. Okay, okay. And they were like, Hey, you know, I think he's like, I personally think a lot of the stuff that you guys work on, like makes a lot of sense. And like all this stuff is difficult, like would love to figure out how we can like remove
all the like a lot of the hacks that exist in open next like what can we do differently or what can we what can we fix yep uh and i was like great and i like made it clear that like our goal is to like reduce the scope of open text to zero so it just doesn't need to exist anymore yeah like even just them talking to us and us not having reverse engineering everything is like 100x better than
current state of things yeah yeah just like clearly there was no actual problem here besides the fact that like you had two options open next exists you can be really upset about it and try to like create a narrative that it's like this evil made up thing or just be like yeah thanks for working on this stuff great thumbs up
And if that's what they did, this would have just been totally fine, which is, I think, what is happening now. But I think things are headed in a pretty good direction now.
Yeah.
About the warm fuzzies between DAX and Vercel. I started to say SST and Vercel, but it's not. It's DAX and Vercel. Because SST never had a problem with Vercel.
No, in that video, Lee posted he does mention SST and Open Next.
Oh, nice. Like, In good terms.
Yeah. And he sent me a message about it.
It was like, look at you guys. We're going to find something new to talk about. If you guys are all just like buddies now, we're not buddies. Well, I mean, that was too far, but not buddies. You're you're on good terms. You're really trying on good terms. Oh, okay. You just trying to spice neutral. Oh, sure. Yeah. Always. Yeah.
I guess neither side can be too upset about the hostility that has ensued on Twitter because it's good for both sides. There's no such thing as bad attention or something. No, there is. No such thing as bad publicity. No, that's not true.
No, I think they lost something. Oh, okay. They lost a war or the battle. Yes, I think that there was a time when they could literally create any narrative they wanted and they would just post it on Twitter. And you can see that approach suddenly backfiring every single time they try it. And I think this is a good correction.
And now they're now a boring company that just makes a boring product and nobody really... It's not this like noise... energy suck thing that they, they were for a very long time. So to me, I feel like things are now in a good place.
That's good. That's what you really hated was the amount of, yeah, it's the only thing I really hated air that was sucked out of the room. Yeah.
Nice. Okay. They required beating them over and over and burning out people. So they just stopped, uh,
posting yeah but i think it yeah it's just funny how it's ended up playing out well maybe that's why i'm not on twitter anymore maybe that was the only thing that was keeping me around is that kind of drama and the fun there's still drama that happens but you know yeah it just feel kind of played out played out uh i'm gonna see you in new york soon right is that this month no it's next month
I got to book my airfare.
Book your flight.
I'm sorry. No, I will.
Book your flight.
I'm going to. Even my wife is telling me to book my flight because her mom's going to come into town while I'm gone, but she wants to wait until I book flights so she knows when to come in. And I don't even know what dates. I think Liz told me. Liz did such a good job of sending all the details and I have not done my part.
Literally everything. Besides us.
Oh, really?
I'm not the only one? I don't think anyone's booked their flight.
Oh, nice. I mean, it is next month, to be fair. Like, I don't know if I've ever booked a flight a month in advance.
A month in advance is a normal amount of time, Adam.
I think like three weeks is my, like, that's when I generally would be like, okay, if I don't do it now, tickets are going to get expensive.
Yeah, well, the reason we need everyone to book is so we can calculate what we spent, so we know what we have left over, so we know how much we can blow on our Airbnb bill.
yeah where does everybody book flights these days since google shut down google flights oh google flights is not shut down okay don't do it really on this podcast do it oh okay i'll do it later i just started wondering like what the price is i remember yeah i remember i started to do this and i was like which airport isn't one of them's not closer to everything we're doing than the others it literally doesn't matter it literally doesn't matter into new jersey or new york and both are fine either airport in new york or newark in new jersey is fine
Okay. Why did they do that? Why did they name a city right next to New York, Newark?
Oh, it's even worse than you think. It's so much worse than you think. Ready? You've heard of New York Penn Station, right? Sure. New York Penn Station.
I think so.
It's like one of the main train stations in New York that go to like New Jersey, Philadelphia, Connecticut, like everywhere. New York Penn Station. New York Penn Station. Got it. There is a stop in Newark called Newark Penn Station. No. Why would they do that? And do you know how often people get out at the wrong station? They get out right before they get to New York and they're like, shit.
Just think of the billions in lost productivity from that stupid name choice.
every single time i'm because people used to have to oh so we had the other situation when people would visit us they don't have to get out at newark penn station and take the path over because the path drops them off right at my apartment no so you're telling them to get off at newark get off at newark not new york it's gonna be confusing new york oh that's and it's always a stressful thing yeah it's so bad so avoidable so dumb new york
Also, it's doubly stupid because New York itself is not an original name. It's York with the word new in front of it. And they're like, what if we just said it real fast? Newark.
Newark. And that's. Yeah. Oh, my word. That reminds me. I want to get involved in local city government. Not like I want to run for office or something. I'm just considering. I'm considering going to a town hall or city hall meeting. We got this notice in the mail. Okay. I own property in a place where there are large men can own property. No, stop it.
There are, like, large chunks of agricultural land around my neighborhood because it's in the middle of nowhere. I like that. In fact, two of these chunks are my, like, kitchen window view and then, like, the other side of our house.
You gotta preserve the viewshed. That's what the... It's called preserving the viewshed.
Oh, that's the... Okay, so this is a trope that, like... When you're in your upper 30s and you own a home on a lot in a neighborhood, you're like, don't build any more houses. I like my view because that's how I feel right now.
A view shed is a geographical area that's visible from a location. It includes all surrounding points that are in line of sight within that location. So we have friends that own 180 acres in Virginia. And they're very restricted on what they can build because there's laws around preserving the view shed. So it's really beautiful. I wish we had those laws. Yeah. From that area.
So it's very easy to screw it up. Yeah.
Well, there's two big chunks of like 30 and 40 acre land that are agricultural right now. And they're trying to develop on them. Well, one of them they are developing. They just started cutting down trees. And the view out our kitchen window is completely different. It's just like sky now. And it was all trees. It's so sad. It's like all these...
hundred-year-old oaks, just giant trees, this huge forest, and they're just cutting it all down. And I'm so upset. And I'm like, oh, those trees, they're not going to be there. I thought they would be there forever. And then it's like, well, I guess I live in a neighborhood where they did that just 20 years earlier. So it's like...
I can't be mad that they're going to put more houses in a place where they put houses so I can live here. I can be mad.
It's because preserving the view shed. I've just realized like when you're young, you're like, what the hell are all these wrong with all these people? These NIMBYs, not my backyard people that are like stopping progress. And then you just witness yourself become... Yeah.
So you're saying it's okay to be a NIMBY.
I don't know. Like you got to represent your own interests, right?
Yeah. And we're able to go to this town, this meeting and like vote on whether they can plot this other chunk of land as residential. It's this developer that wants to build a whole neighborhood. They want to like use our little private neighborhood road. It's not private. It's actually a public road. But like right now we live in a neighborhood where there's no through traffic.
The road that comes in, it's a city street.
That changes.
It's going to change. The street right now just goes into our neighborhood. There's no reason anyone else would be on the street, but they want to like plug it in and it'll be like, we get traffic from all over the place. It's just like stuff I don't want to happen. So I'm going to maybe go to the meeting and be like, listen, I would like this to not happen.
I don't know what grounds I have to stand on. Like, just don't do it, please. Cause it'll make me sad. Like, what can I say?
You should show up there with a, with a bomb vest and be like, yeah,
I thought I was about to get real advice. And then you just, you went there. Maybe you could come and wear a bomb. It'd be a little more realistic. I don't know. You're, you're brown. Sorry. That was so racist. I got to not say things like that. Okay. Chris, I'll let you decide my fate. You might cut that out. I'm sorry. You say you're brown all the time.
I can say it too, right? No, no, no. This is great. I'm happy that you made that joke. I just don't know what consequences you're going to pay for it.
I'm going to pay for it for sure. I mean, if it were like 2002, you know, right after 9-11, like... maybe it would have been worse. Is it worse later?
Maybe it's worse. I don't know. I think just explaining this more is making it worse. Okay. I should stop. I'm going to stop.
I'm getting a cramp, like a muscle cramp. And I wonder if it's like anxiety over getting canceled. I can just feel it.
It's happening. It's fine. You're not on Twitter. Like if you don't ignore, if you just ignore it, it's basically not true.
Actually, I will get no consequence. I will have no consequences. It's the tree in the forest thing. Speaking of trees and forest, what do I say? Like if I go to like, literally, I want to go to this meeting. I'm an adult. I'm trying to learn how to be like an adult. You know what I mean? Like adults who are like, I'm going to the city hall meeting. What do you say?
What could I actually say that would be like, not just, I think the trees are pretty and I don't want them to go away.
Okay, so I have no idea how to play this, but I've been like secondarily involved in some of this, not like very, very loosely. When I lived in New York, there was this extremely convenient pedestrian footbridge that crossed over the road. Uh, I could get to it within a minute of my apartment. I would cross it and the subways were on the other side. So very, very, very convenient. Yeah.
It turns out this was a temporary bridge they put in place. It wasn't a permanent one, even though it's been around for years. The reason it was temporary was it technically didn't adhere to like ADA stuff. Like it didn't have a ramp. It didn't have an elevator, stuff like that. Uh, so they built this crazy expensive new one that was like a block of
down way more inconvenient way way way way more inconvenient for you but they committed to doing it for me and for everybody it like totally changed like the the way that you would travel around this neighborhood like that yeah the dynamics like totally changed like it's not just it wasn't just a little further away from you you mean like it was more inconvenient for everybody
for everyone yeah you guys like go through this you have to kind of go through this parking lot it just wasn't like a great situation but they committed to doing it a while ago they spent a bunch of money on it and they're like yeah then we're gonna tear down the old bridge and we're just like just leave the old one also and there's this guy that tried super super super hard
uh to make arguments for it and it was funny how far he went he literally sat there and counted the people that crossed like for a day oh interesting yeah he was like he was like basically 50 of them will go to the new bridge 50 the other 50 are probably trying to go north so they'll like go just cross at the intersection on the north side which is a very busy intersection.
It doesn't have a footbridge. Uh, so we're going to see, he's claimed we're going to see an increase in like accidents and potentially death. Wow. Yeah.
So then he's basically being like, you're killing people. Are you okay? If you're cool killing people, then yeah, go ahead and tear down the bridge.
evil person yeah so he like came with all these like crazy crazy arguments ultimately lost because just one of those bureaucratic things of like they committed to this plan and if they don't do this it seems like they wasted millions of dollars on this other yeah thing yeah and that's what it feels like it feels like is anyone in history won something like this like could i actually go in there no there has changed oh really oh
Okay, so when we're in New York, I'm going to take you guys around this neighborhood. It is like one of the most pleasant places in New York in the world.
Wait, wait, wait. One of the most pleasant places in New York in the world? I don't understand that sentence.
Oh, and in the world. Yeah, I misspoke. Got it. And the person behind it, Jane Jacobs, wrote a whole book on her old theory on what makes great neighborhoods. But that was almost... That neighborhood was almost destroyed because they were going to build this crazy highway through it. And she organized a ton of... just protest and push back on it. And it worked.
And that neighborhood over the next 50 years actually became, again, turned into this like crazy nice thing. Okay. So not only did it work, she was also right about it. And now her book is like everywhere.
So I don't feel like I have as much of an argument. Like in my case, there's not like, yeah, it's really tough. It's literally just the view. And there is like a lot of wildlife. So all these woods that they're going to get rid of, we used to have deer all over the place. And I feel like there's nowhere for them to be now.
Like they would go between those woods and like the wooded areas between our homes and And I feel like when all that's gone, it's like habitat destruction.
I know these words from being a kid when it's like... Just say they're wrecking havoc on... They're coming into your backyard and they're kicking your children.
Yeah, just lie about it. Okay.
And just see if they call me on it.
Play dirty.
Just come up with the most plausible lie. The air quality... Do you like kicking children? You've been monitoring the air quality and it's been drastically reduced when these trees were...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just flash a little meter of some sort that I'm holding. It's gone up to 26 parts per million, okay? Listen, this used to be 24.
Realistically, I don't think you or I are going to be successful at this, because I think the only way to be successful is to be one of those people with no shame, but to an impressive degree. If you're fighting government bureaucracies, I feel like this is...
You're the people that make a scene. You end up on YouTube because somebody records it. But you get your way, maybe.
It's got to be really annoying. It's got to be super, super, super annoying.
Yeah, I can't do that. I don't like conflict.
Put up a really embarrassing billboard on your property that faces where this new development would be. Something pornographic and horrible.
Oh, no. Okay. Yeah, I'm not going to do that. I'll try the bomb thing. We'll try that.
This is what it takes. You're fighting against a developer who's going to make millions and millions and millions from this.
Well, it's the Ozarks, so...
At least a couple of millions they're going to make.
Maybe, yeah, I don't know. Like per house, right? I'm assuming. They'll probably make more than anyone selling a domain to Google will, but probably not as much as, yeah.
I mean, I have the same, I mean, I complain about my neighborhood in the same way. So if you remember my backyard, on the other side, it has been this giant empty lot. The whole time I've been here in Miami, it's been a big empty lot. And we looked it up the other day and when it was sold, it was sold with diagrams of like a giant apartment building, like huge. And I'm like, is that the plan?
Oh, no. Because if that's the plan, there's going to be a huge apartment building just overlooking my backyard.
Yeah, just, like, looking into your windows.
Where I'm just, like, walking around in my underwear all the time.
I mean, yeah, you should probably not do that anyway, but, yeah. No, I don't care about that.
I, like, I'm going to increase that to, like, make it more annoying for the people that, yeah. So, like, the only way I stop this is to, like, play dirty, you know?
Okay.
Yeah, like, dump radioactive material over the fence into the other side or something. Oh, jeez.
uh let's try the bomb vest thing i'm telling you i think okay so here's another thing i don't know if i told you about this i'm gonna say it publicly now which means i probably can never do it because it's incriminating uh next door to me is a more reasonably sized apartment building and they have like a parking lot and the parking lot is like basically neighboring my backyard at some point they complained that it was too dark in the parking lot and they needed like lights
But for some reason, the response to this was to go crazy overboard and set up these gigantic floodlights that are on all the time. And one of them shoots a beam of light right into these two big double doors in my bedroom that are glass, through there into my bedroom. It doesn't really bother me. We have blinds and it's not the worst thing, but it would be better if that wasn't there.
uh we're friends with someone that lives in that building because he brings his dog over sometimes and he was like yeah just wait till it's dark and take a bb gun and shoot out the thing oh you're saying you haven't done it
it would be so yeah it would be so easy because like there's a gap in my fence where i can just go prone oh wow shoot i wish you would and film it it's just one of these things where i'm like there's no way they're ever gonna replace it like there's no way they're gonna like be like oh because there's other lights in the parking lot that you know are fine they don't need this one interesting
Yeah. It's also just kind of like sounds fun. I mean, like a reason to have a BB gun and to use it.
Liz's dad has a BB gun. He uses all the time to kill iguanas.
Really?
He shoots them out of their trees. Yeah.
Wow. That sounds kind of fun too. Like just, I mean, not killing animals. I'm a vegan, but like the idea of like the target practice of it, like,
getting good at hitting small things with a bb gun that sounds fun yeah yeah yeah so i just imagine like this like tactical operation where i'm like really stealthy and i like yeah you're in like a ghillie suit and you're laying in your bushes aiming a little bb gun through the fence or like go on the roof of my house yeah yeah go prone yeah
I want to go paintballing. Can we organize a paintballing thing? Because that just sounds so fun. Like first person paintball. Can we do like a stream? And we film it all? And where we all have cameras. Have we talked about this? I feel like we've talked about this.
No, we haven't talked about it.
It was a great idea. Come to the Ozarks. We'll do a paintball, like a JavaScript paintball war and get all the framework authors. But we all have like GoPros and you can see like our gun. So it looks like Goldeneye, like first person video game. And we're paintballing each other. Let's do it.
That's a great idea. That would be so fun. So in New York, there is a place that we've gone to more than once, which is... You said something, but... It is like this crazy warehouse they set up to be like really creepy, like these little tunnels, corridors, and it's really hard to see. It's dark, not a lot of lighting. And it's, so it's laser tags, not paintball.
I think I paintball in another area, but it's laser. But the thing here is they hire actors to play zombies. Oh my word. Yeah. And so there's different modes. It can be like you against zombies when you shoot them like their shit lights up and they like fall down. Yeah. This is New York. There are a lot of
they get into actors do they get into it like yeah so we played this version this was for my friends my friend got married and we went here for his life you know sounds like a good time i mean and so the mode we played was it was two it was like two teams right it's like one you're playing the other team laser tag the third team is the zombies that are attacking everyone okay and
every round we were like up the intensity up it up it up it up it up it by the you're telling them to yeah yeah they were just grabbing us just slamming us against the wall and stuff it was so fun it was so good like you're living a zombie movie they make these crazy noises and like it's like really really intense oh man the thing that's
interesting is i remember the first time we went where it was just like us versus zombies it was really scary for like the first minute yeah and then something and and what's interesting is it's only happened to some people uh something flipped only the psychopaths
yeah yeah so they put everyone's brains where it just was not scary at all and it was just so like you were just focused on the the mission like the scariness of it just like dissipated you were just like the adrenaline kicked in and you were just like in the zone you were gonna kill those yeah yeah just like a soldier in battle yeah so i felt good about that i was like okay if i am in a situation that's stressful like it's gonna be scary but like it'll flip and i'll yeah the adrenaline will kick in yeah yeah what's the first some people didn't kick in bullet whizzes by it didn't kick in
they just went panic mode and started hiding yeah they were kind of like behind us the whole time um yeah it's super fun and there was these funny situations where like i walked into a room and i saw oh because the mode where you get to zombies you're also it's also an escape room at the same time you're trying to solve a puzzle there's like you have to discover these like clues and find things combining those two things that's fun
Yeah, I saw my friend looking in a barrel. I walked over to look in a barrel, and I turned around, and I was trying to see what else was there. But it wasn't my friend. It was a zombie pretending to look in a barrel. And he turned around and started to grab me, and it was pretty... What a cool job.
You're trying to get jobs acting in a commercial or something, and then on the weekends, you're like, I'm going to go be a zombie. I'm going to put my all into it.
And they like, don't, they're not like, Oh, I hate this. I have to do this. Cause you know, I'm like kind of do be an actor or whatever, but they're like, they get super into it. Yeah. Yeah. They have to make sure that one's a great time. Yeah. So that with a GoPro. Ooh. Yeah. Okay. Could be pretty fun.
Let's do it. Okay. I got to pee. We just got to be done. Cause I got to pee. It just happens. I'm sorry. Bingo. Somebody just got bingo. All right. See ya. See ya.