Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1029 | Paranormal Experts Explore Angels, Demons, Giants & a Creepy Robertson Family Legend
Fri, 24 Jan 2025
Jase starts out a little skeptical of guests Luke Rodgers and Nate Henry, the hosts of “Blurry Creatures,” a podcast that explores the paranormal through the lens of Christianity. But, he’s won over by their down-to-earth, curious, and compassionate approach. Al and Zach are excited to discuss the Bible’s most mysterious stories, and Nate and Luke share what they’ve learned about God, humanity, and the supernatural from their years digging into cryptic tales. Plus, an unsettling Robertson family legend from their grandmother’s struggle with mental illness comes to light. In this episode: Genesis 6, verses 1-4; Genesis 10, verse 8; Deuteronomy 32 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What are the guests' backgrounds in paranormal studies?
I am unashamed. What about you?
How do you accidentally take off your beard?
I was, like, doing the trim, and I was like, oh. You just left it offside of you.
Did I hurt your feelings on the coat thing? Because you immediately took it off. He hasn't worn it since. I thought that was funny.
Did you have a bad coat?
Yeah, I was wearing a coat. I mean, I was like, hey, you're in Louisiana. And I gave him a nugget that's unknown. I was like, I know what you're doing here by this coat that's, like, this thick, but the last time a person froze to death in Louisiana was 1747. He was a pirate. He was a pirate. Probably. I broke him down mentally.
I said, you wore an orange hat, which says I'm scared somebody's going to shoot me. I think we're rolling. I think we're rolling. Well, this is a good start.
Welcome to the Unshamed Podcast. We call it a cold.
Where no plan is a plan. Cold open. Yeah. So we have some friends in from Tennessee, Nashville, and Nashville adjacent.
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Chapter 2: What is the significance of Genesis 6 in the discussion?
You know, we kind of started this podcast trying to marry the paranormal. You know, there's a lot of paranormal stuff, podcasts, talk about UFOs, aliens, Bigfoot, all that stuff.
Oh, wow, y'all are conspiracy theorists.
Well, I don't know. After this episode, maybe not conspiracies, but maybe truths, you know. Exactly. That's what we... And then there was this whole other world of, you know, this theological thread where a lot of guys that...
there wasn't really a marriage of the two, where, you know, there's strange stuff in our Bible, there's strange stuff that people experience, everything, you know, under the sun, and there was just a lot of people who were willing to talk about it on either sides, but no one was really kind of put those things together. We did, and... Really?
We are Christian conspiracy theorists. Well, they would not call themselves conspiracy theorists.
Oh, well, I don't mean that negatively.
Yeah. But they look into the paranormal, which I will say it's interesting because you guys mentioned someone who's been influential in the spiritual side, Michael Heiser. Yeah. Yeah, we bring doctors on the show, and Heizer was one of our- Yeah, you guys have had Tim Mackey on the show.
We had Mike on twice before Mike passed away. Yeah. But we had Heizer on twice. I think, Nate, we've talked about this a lot, but his book, Unseen Realm, which we were talking about yesterday, Zach, that you just read a couple weeks ago, was really like a seminal piece of our show and influence on our show. Because I think what Nate was saying is true. We-
We're just trying to talk about and contextualize a lot of the things that people experience and see. Things we're talking about in mainstream media. We kind of hit it at a crazy time because we're two years into the podcast in 2022, and all of a sudden, Congress is having House Oversight Committees on UAPs, right?
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Chapter 3: How do angels and demons interact with humanity?
It's interesting, because I'm just meeting you guys, but I've been studying and teaching and preaching the Bible, for most of my adult life. And it's so much involving another realm and people that are interacting on this earth back and forth with angels. So it's interesting. People say, oh, I'm about 80. It's like, well, the Bible's full of it because we got angels coming and going.
We got demons. We got a lot of interaction with another realm. So what's so shocking about things we can't really explain and describe?
Right, but that's the paradigm, though, right? This is what we talk about often on the show is that we, you know, the Bible's written to an ancient Near Eastern audience. This is Mike's stick. I mean, this is where he goes, right? And we're 21st century Americans, and we read it like it's written to us, right?
But I think the separation, too, as you do point out, is like we're like post-Enlightenment. Yeah. Cartesian philosophy, academic era, imperial paradigms where we want to measure, it's a scientific thing, and I think sadly in a lot of ways in the church, we sort of, this is just a broad question.
Well, Mike Heiser, he said that the average seminarian graduate only gets two classes on angels and demons. Wow. Class is. Not like a full, just like almost like a lecture. Two lectures.
Yeah, two lectures inside. Yeah. Not two courses.
Not two courses. Yeah, two lectures.
And think about how... many times there's interaction in the scriptures across thousands of years because of Old Testament history and New Testament.
They're everywhere. That's my point. I think we live in a weird way. We've kind of separated the natural from the supernatural in the Western church. That's right. And so this becomes then a paradigm buster to be like, and we talk about in the context of this, what is an extraterrestrial, right? And this is an example. It's something that's not of Earth. So what's an angel then?
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Chapter 4: What is the Robertson family legend shared in the episode?
That was a joke. A buddy of mine sent me this video last night. I will read under the video. This is a security camera. And once I found out y'all were going to be on, I actually called him and said, can I use this? Because this was his message, and I'll show you. It says, explain this. And look, you'll see, yesterday he sent me this. So this is before I knew y'all were coming.
Explain this, last night behind the house. So I thought it was visual, and so I turned it on and nothing happened. And then I realized that it was the sound. So this is the security camera outside their house, and I just want you all to listen. It's pretty long, but at some point you'll hear these noises since you're in the blurred creature. You hear that? Wait for it.
it is that is strange and this is after dark this is uh let's see what what's the location this is 1-12, it was at 9.42 p.m.
And where was this at?
I don't want to tell you where it's at. At the state. Because, well, these guys may be like them crystal ball people, you know, they ask you a bunch of questions. Then they form an opinion. No, I just, based on what you heard.
Diagnose it.
Well, I did ask the guy, and he said, well, don't say where I'm at, because I don't want people...
you know ghostbusters showing up in my yard but now he he contacted a biologist i mean they sent this off and so then i called him back and i was like look i got two blurry creatures and if you want to find out what this is let's just open it up to the public let them listen so there it was and i'll get your take now i realize that's That's just a sound. But I'm going to say this.
I've been in the woods a long time. I've never exactly heard that sound. And I'll tell you, where they live, it is deep woods behind their house. This guy's out in his garage, and he hears this. He goes in. They get a gun. His wife comes out and hears it. She starts screaming, you know, call 911.
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Chapter 5: How does the Blurry Creatures podcast approach paranormal topics?
He was like their in-house theologian for a while, or more or less the in-house doctor for a long time.
Yeah, their CEO came and met with me in Black Mountain, and he was like, you need to read Heiser. And then two other people told me this, and I was like, then someone sent me the book. right before the last trip. And then you're like, okay, maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to read this.
I read it, and what I found to be very profound about it is that he talks in there about the, I think he calls it the Deuteronomy 32 worldview of interpreting the Bible through more of an understanding of this. If you were reading this as a first century Jewish, or even going back to read it as in the worldview in which it was written, not from a Cartesian framework.
How would we read a lot of this? And it was very eye-opening for me, but the interesting part about it was that the entire book, which, Jase, you gotta read it. I told Jase, you need to read this book, because everything we've been teaching on this podcast
And just kind of the eschatological flow of the whole kingdom in the last two chapters of the book, I think, are Kingdom Not Yet Now, which is the title of the podcast I started, by the way, called Not Yet Now. But that's where it ends.
So it's kind of this story of the kingdom of God coming to earth, but it's this whole picture of it through the whole lens of this new framework that I haven't really... had access to before.
And so you have things like the Nephilim that you mentioned in Genesis chapter six, which I knew the story, we've talked about it almost as like a, for me, it's always been kind of like, oh, it's just one of those weird things, but not really a lot of deep theological significance.
But then he ties that into the Tower of Babel, which is, they had to make a name for themselves, which is the same Hebrew word used for men of renown in Genesis six. So his point was the Nephilim came back and they created more Nephilim, or the sons of God came back and entered to the women and they created more Nephilim, which is the Tower of Babel, and that's when the nations were created.
We talk a whole lot on this podcast about God wants to bring the nations up the mountain to worship him. The nations were created in Genesis chapter 11, fast forward to Pentecost, and now the nations are coming back together, and instead of confusing their language, which is what God did in Genesis 11, now he's, Acts 2, he's allowing them to hear each other in their own native tongue.
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Chapter 6: What experiences have shaped the guests' views on the supernatural?
You see it in practical life, though. I've studied with a few people who have said, I'm going to follow Satan, and they've given themselves to that world. which at first when I was younger, I was skeptical. But what I noticed in studying with a few of those people is that whether they thought that was real or not, the consequences of that said decision with me trying to help them was real.
And there was nothing good about their life whatsoever. And unfortunately, some of those people that I studied with ended up taking their own life. And it wasn't because I wasn't trying to help them in every way possible. There was one particular girl who was young in the youth group, and I just made it my ambition because she wore weird stuff, you know, and she was identifying herself as a –
an occult, demonic follower. And I just thought, I was thinking, not on this watch. And the further I got down into it, turned out she had been abused as a kid, and we just befriended her, me and my wife, and really tried to help her.
But the consequences of seeing the crazy things that she would come up with, which I started believing after a while, because I thought, well, you've opened yourself up to something that's really dark, And without getting into all the details, it just made me kind of rethink the reality of this when you see the results of it.
I think that what could be dangerous about it, though, is if you approach the topic as a novelty. I actually think that's not helpful. For me, at least Heiser's work, I just read the book, so I typically am processing real time with you guys here, but I think it has to be connected to the grand story. And I think it is.
I think that the conversation, I think I'm not saying I agree with him on everything. I just started reading him. But I do think that when I read how he even like how he there's so much in the Old Testament that we read through and we just take for granted. There's a lot of instances in the Old Testament, for example, where God will speak about himself in both the first and the third person.
Well, how do you make sense of that? You know what I mean? And I never really dove into that. I've just kind of like, well, and I maybe had like a very weak response to that. But I think when you start to understand this concept of Elohim's versus Yahweh, two different things, you know what I mean? Like it starts to make sense in the divine counsel.
And when Jesus prays, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And you start to see it there. There's a much, there's an orchestrated effort on both the part of God to accomplish what God's going to accomplish. And by the way, he, in the end, wins. But there's also an orchestrated effort by the evil realm that is seeking to destroy what God's trying to accomplish.
And I think it's a lot more comforting to not believe that. But we need to take the demonic realm seriously.
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