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Crimeatorium

Part 3: The State of Florida vs Laurie Shaver | The Murder of Michael Shaver

Thu, 19 Dec 2024

Description

Part 3: Laurie Shaver was a Florida woman whose seemingly ordinary life unraveled when authorities uncovered the body of her husband, Michael Shaver, buried in their backyard beneath a concrete slab. Michael, born in New York and just 33 years old at the time, was a Disney employee who disappeared in 2015. For years, Laurie claimed he had simply walked away from their marriage. However, suspicions grew when family and friends reported him missing in 2018, leading investigators to uncover the truth. Laurie Shaver was charged with second-degree murder in connection with her husband's death. This episode presents a condensed version of her trial, edited for clarity and length.The prosecution opening statement begins at about 30 seconds in.Contact:[email protected] Blog for updates and insights:https://crimeatorium.com/blogSupport:Donations are appreciated, if you would like to help support the show, use the link below and buy me a burrito and a Diet Pepsi:http://Ko-fi.com/crimeatoriumFor $3 a month, you can support this show on Patreon, in return you will receive ad free, early, and bonus episodeshttps://www.patreon.com/crimeatoriumIf you like the podcast, please share it on social media and with friends, and take a minute to leave a review for Crimeatorium on Spotify, Podchaser or Apple Podcasts.Music:CO.AG Musichttps://www.youtube.com/@co.agmusic1823Thank you for listening!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/crimeatorium9009/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Audio
Featured in this Episode
Transcription

14.206 - 14.506 Host

Good morning.

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14.526 - 15.967 Host

Can you please introduce yourself to the jury?

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16.367 - 28.652 Host

Good morning. I am Robert Seha. I am the owner and operator of the equestrian facility on the premises of the location that you guys were all talking about in this case, behind.

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31.014 - 49.137 Host

Sorry. When you're talking about you operate that facility, was that a piece of property which was neighbor to the chamber residence? Correct. And through that, did you meet Lori Shaver? Yes. And do you see her in the courtroom today? Can you identify her by something that she's wearing?

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49.418 - 52.239 Host

Yes. Right over here in the black blazer.

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52.46 - 54.201 Host

Did you ever know Michael Shaver?

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55.061 - 64.128 Host

Had you ever met Travis Filmer? I have. Now, when did your business move into that property?

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64.148 - 65.789 Host

2016, operations started to begin.

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66.649 - 67.43 Host

And you remember what month?

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68.427 - 69.348 Host

The summer months.

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70.108 - 77.712 Host

Now, at some point, did you purchase a firearm from Lori Shaver? Yes. And what was the circumstances that that happened?

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78.713 - 85.957 Host

Circumstances where I got a text, would you be interested in a firearm or someone that you know?

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86.377 - 87.418 Host

And who was that text from?

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87.878 - 88.519 Host

Lori Shaver.

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88.679 - 96.927 Host

Okay. And did you express potential interest? Yes. And can you describe the firearm that you missed out on?

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97.227 - 107.575 Host

Yes, it's a pink 38 special with black handle and a little bit of chrome or gray. Did you end up purchasing this weapon? Yes.

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108.476 - 125.919 Host

Now, at some point, law enforcement had come on to the property for a couple of days executing a search warrant. Were you aware or did you ever see that activity? Yes. Do you remember when the purchase of that weapon was in relation to that search?

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127.18 - 134.305 Host

Approximately three months, two to three months beforehand. And did you end up purchasing that weapon?

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134.345 - 144.284 Host

Yes. I'm going to show you what's been previously been marked as States Incident 4, identification. Without taking that out or anything like that, do you recognize that firearm?

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144.324 - 144.804 Host

Yes, I do.

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145.084 - 147.805 Host

Is that the firearm that you purchased from Orange?

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149.085 - 153.086 Host

And the color and other features of it are distinctive to you?

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153.206 - 154.867 Host

The colors match and very distinctive.

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156.227 - 174.86 Host

After that purchase occurred, at some point, did law enforcement come to make contact with you and ask about this firearm? Correct. And at that time, did you turn this firearm over too long? I did. Your Honor, at this time of state move, states exhibit far into evidence that states 26.

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175.801 - 184.467 Host

And we renew our objection. It's not relevant. It's not frugitive to any mature effect in this case. This gun is not that linked to this crime in any form or any manner.

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185.08 - 188.962 Host

All right, the objection is overruled. Estates R will be entered into evidence. Estates number 26.

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189.102 - 219.122 Host

When you purchased this gun, no statements were made from Ms. Shaver indicating that use in any crime or any ill motive purpose, correct? Correct. Do you know if Ms. Shaver had ever sold any other items from her residence? Not to my knowledge. Okay. Now, did there come a time when you contacted Ms. Shaver advising her that you'd seen somebody trespassing on her property? Correct. Okay.

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219.362 - 220.182 Host

Tell us about that.

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220.423 - 224.845 Host

Okay. As stated, we have the... Sidebar, please.

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224.885 - 225.666 Host

Hold on, sir.

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227.167 - 230.909 Host

So, sir, you had seen somebody trespassing upon the property, correct? Correct.

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232.593 - 261.256 Host

uh correct uh i wouldn't possibly say just trespass until we're from the horse i'll get it in perspective we are 10 acres away on the other side i see a human silhouette i don't know at that time if anyone was supposed to be there or not but from the current situation of i believe that lori was off the property no one should be there

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262.111 - 267.054 Host

At that point, I would assume it would be on the terms of trespassing, but not on the terms.

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267.074 - 273.019 Host

So you knew Lori was off the property at that time or away from the residence? Correct. No further questions. Thank you, George.

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273.039 - 277.061 Host

All right. Thank you. State? Just say, when did that happen?

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277.722 - 289.185 Host

I cannot recall. Was it 2019, 2020, 2021? It would be in the realm of... 2018. Okay.

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290.387 - 293.933 Host

So sometime in 2018. But you don't know when?

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294.233 - 298.275 Host

Springtime, possibly around 2018, if I'm recollecting around there.

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299.496 - 316.285 Host

And you didn't see this silhouette carrying anything or doing anything? No. You actually don't even know who this person is? No, no clue, nothing. And you are just assuming that this person was not supposed to be there? Correct. Nothing further than that.

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316.505 - 321.728 Host

Please introduce yourself. My name is Joseph Bray. Where do you work? I own JB Guns.

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322.188 - 323.029 Host

What is J.D. Cox?

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323.329 - 326.052 Host

It's a retail sporting goods firearm business.

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326.512 - 327.113 Host

Where is that one?

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328.073 - 329.274 Host

It's in Bushnell, Florida.

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329.855 - 332.257 Host

And have you ever had an occasion to meet Lori Shaver?

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332.878 - 337.782 Host

I did. I met her at an audio shop in Lake County.

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338.603 - 347.151 Host

And when you were there, did you overhear Ms. Shaver discussing with any other individuals the potential scale of firearms?

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347.785 - 366.137 Host

Yes, the owner of the audio shop, she was talking to him about possibly trading guns for maybe audio work. As an individual that owns a gun shop, was that of interest to you? It was. I sat back and waited for her to quit talking to the owner.

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366.618 - 388.674 Host

And once she walked away from the owner, I went up to him and said, if you're not interested in any of this, I would be interested in possibly asking her about purchasing the firearms. And are you aware whether or not she did in fact sell any of those firearms to the audio shop? I believe she did trade one firearm to the audio shop owner. Did you end up purchasing any firearms from her?

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388.955 - 389.695 Host

I did, yes sir.

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390.036 - 393.559 Host

And how many firearms and what was the price that you paid?

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394.179 - 397.941 Host

I purchased nine in total from her, and I believe we agreed on $1,000.

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397.981 - 400.302 Host

And what kind of firearms did you purchase?

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401.523 - 422.295 Host

There was a little bit of everything. There was an AR-15. There was a few Colt revolvers, older revolvers, Maverick 88 shotgun, an old 410 bolt-action shotgun, an old FN 1900, and there was a Marlin Model 60 and I believe a Winchester 94 revolver.

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423.482 - 429.469 Host

And at some point, did you reach out and tell law enforcement about these firearms that you had purchased?

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430.01 - 444.026 Host

I did, yes, sir. After I saw the news coverage about the missing person, I recognized the house and Ms. Shaver. And I reached out to a friend that worked at Sumter County.

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444.813 - 448.374 Host

And ultimately, did you relay this information to the Lake County Sheriff's Office?

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448.855 - 449.575 Host

I did, yes, sir.

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449.595 - 450.835 Host

Nothing further at this time.

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451.115 - 451.676 Host

Mr. Wiggs?

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453.436 - 458.138 Host

Yes, sir. Mr. Bryant? Was there a male with Ms. Shaver?

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458.218 - 459.038 Host

There was, yes, sir.

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459.478 - 460.079 Host

Tall man?

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460.979 - 461.539 Host

Dark hair?

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462.059 - 466.481 Host

I don't remember his hair color. I just remember a taller, in-shape man with her.

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466.501 - 470.303 Host

Kind of sad? Mm-hmm. Okay. How high? Do you remember?

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470.643 - 473.944 Host

I do not. I just remember he was quite a bit taller than she was.

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474.335 - 475.355 Host

Yeah. Taller than me?

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475.656 - 476.136 Host

What's that, sir?

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476.156 - 476.836 Host

Taller than me?

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477.096 - 477.736 Host

I would say so.

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478.537 - 479.937 Host

Was he introduced to you at all?

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481.077 - 481.738 Host

I don't recall.

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481.758 - 488.96 Host

Okay. Now, do you happen to know whether or not any of these guns were tested by law enforcement?

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490.001 - 491.661 Host

As far as I'm aware, they were not.

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492.081 - 496.123 Host

Okay. Were any of these guns returned to you?

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497.518 - 498.699 Host

What do you mean, returned to me?

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499.079 - 505.123 Host

After law enforcement had done whatever they had to do with them. Did anybody tell you that we don't need these?

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505.244 - 510.527 Host

I had already sold the guns long before law enforcement found out about them.

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510.607 - 517.312 Host

So you had sold them? Yes, sir. Okay, when law enforcement spoke to you. But you recall this mail with Ms. Shaver, correct?

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517.892 - 518.493 Host

I do, yes, sir.

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518.773 - 519.974 Host

Okay, thank you.

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520.454 - 523.797 Host

Mr. Wright, when did you first see Scott's phone, Mr. Shaver?

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525.185 - 535.975 Host

Date-wise, I believe it was December 5th to like the 8th, somewhere right in there.

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536.135 - 540.079 Host

Nothing wrong with that. All right, thank you. Morning. Please introduce yourself to the jury.

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540.319 - 542.861 Host

Hi, my name is Travis. I'm Lori's husband.

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543.782 - 544.963 Host

And are you a convicted felon?

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545.304 - 545.664 Host

Correct.

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545.984 - 547.546 Host

How many times have you been convicted of felony?

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548.046 - 550.669 Host

I have two charges against me. Two convictions. And...

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552.694 - 567.981 Host

Would it help refresh your recollection of that if I showed you your judgment, sir? Sure. So do you remember this case? Yes. Yes. One felony there? Yep. In this case, two felonies.

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568.001 - 569.641 Host

So when I was 18, that was two?

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570.782 - 572.083 Host

So you have a total of three?

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572.263 - 572.963 Host

Okay, yep.

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573.523 - 574.243 Host

Do you agree with that?

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576.201 - 579.143 Host

Now, you said you're Lori Schieber's husband.

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579.963 - 580.324 Host

Correct.

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580.504 - 581.384 Host

Did you identify her?

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583.045 - 583.826 Host

Lori's right there.

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584.546 - 585.767 Host

And when you see her, is she Savannah?

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586.187 - 586.708 Host

The second.

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588.129 - 590.07 Host

And how did you meet Ms. Schieber?

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590.71 - 605.3 Host

I met Ms. Filmer through my brother. He... He knew her from the gym, and he introduced us at her residence at a get-together that he had put together with his now current wife.

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606.501 - 609.102 Host

And when was that get-together?

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609.222 - 611.903 Host

Late January 2016, I believe.

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612.723 - 617.265 Host

And why did your brother put together a gathering at her house?

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618.225 - 620.966 Host

He said it was something for work, a get-together for work.

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621.667 - 627.474 Host

Were you aware of any time that either your brother or his now wife was looking at this shit?

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628.175 - 628.896 Host

At that time, no.

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629.717 - 630.518 Host

When did they look at it?

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631.976 - 637.7 Host

I think his wife was there. She was there sometime before that, I guess.

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638.22 - 648.148 Host

So she was living there before that time frame in 2016? Correct. When did you and Ms. Shaver start dating?

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648.348 - 650.51 Host

Late May of 2016.

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650.55 - 655.854 Host

So between January and May, what was your relationship at that time?

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655.994 - 656.695 Host

We didn't have one.

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657.175 - 659.817 Host

Did he communicate, text, phone, anything like that to you?

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660.386 - 672.355 Host

We had a few conversations here and there, but I was in a relationship. She made it very clear to me the first night that we met that she was in a relationship. So we just didn't communicate.

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672.696 - 677.66 Host

At the time that you started dating, had she ever told you what her marital status was?

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678 - 678.34 Host

No, sir.

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679.001 - 683.044 Host

Had she ever told you that she was single but she had been previously divorced? No.

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683.843 - 691.187 Host

She told me that she was in a relationship with a gentleman, but at that time never got into any marital status.

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691.228 - 693.169 Host

Do you remember giving a deposition in this case?

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694.069 - 699.853 Host

Do you remember saying anything different about what her representations of her marital status was at that time?

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700.273 - 701.374 Host

At the time that we first met?

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701.394 - 706.477 Host

I was talking about when you started dating her. Did she ever talk about her marital status?

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707.517 - 710.099 Host

Do you remember giving that deposition?

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711.593 - 713.215 Host

I remember having a deposition, correct.

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713.835 - 726.248 Host

We've got to go ahead and refer to page 4, line 25. Do you know any copy of that deposition? Go ahead and read to yourself line 24 and 25.

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728.365 - 730.166 Host

Yeah, that didn't happen at that time.

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730.746 - 732.287 Host

Had she ever told you that she was divorced?

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732.608 - 732.968 Host

Yes, sir.

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732.988 - 743.774 Host

All right. What was her ex-husband's name then? Michael. And what did she tell you about the whereabouts of her ex-husband at that time?

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744.011 - 751.592 Host

She just told me that they were divorced and that he wanted nothing to do with the family, did not know where he was, and he was not around.

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752.573 - 763.875 Host

And had she expressed to you that he left and wasn't having contact with the children? Correct. And how long did you date until you moved into her home?

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763.895 - 765.075 Host

A few months.

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765.775 - 769.656 Host

Do you remember about when you actually moved in, what month that would have been?

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769.696 - 771.116 Host

Probably July, late July.

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773.036 - 775.638 Host

And who all was living at that home at that time?

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776.799 - 780.441 Host

Lori, her two kids, and Becca.

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781.321 - 782.122 Host

And Rebecca is?

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782.182 - 782.602 Host

Rebecca.

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783.102 - 799.413 Host

That would be your brother's girlfriend at the time? Correct. And they're now married? Correct. How long did Rebecca stay living at that home? I don't know. Did she end up moving out around December 31st, 2016?

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800.173 - 801.054 Host

I have no idea.

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802.395 - 812.402 Host

And in December 31st, 2015, did you have some sort of commitment ceremony with Lori?

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812.502 - 814.123 Host

I'm sorry, you just said December 31st, 2015.

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814.183 - 818.626 Host

For correct me, December 31st, 2016.

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818.906 - 819.246 Host

Yes, sir.

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820.447 - 823.389 Host

And when you say commitment ceremony, what is that?

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824.353 - 827.716 Host

Just a commitment to each other under God.

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829.157 - 834.442 Host

And have you had any discussions about why you wouldn't just get legally married at that point?

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834.482 - 834.822 Host

Yes, sir.

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835.302 - 838.965 Host

And why did she tell you that she didn't want to get legally married?

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839.266 - 847.953 Host

Lori, when we were talking about marriage and conversation, told me that she did not want to sign... All right, sidebar, please.

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848.774 - 851.376 Host

Why did she tell you she did not want to get legally married?

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851.934 - 863.977 Host

She told me that due to the extreme trauma abuse of her previous marriage, she did not want to sign a contract with another man that she felt like gives the man to make her property.

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864.397 - 868.258 Host

All right. Do you remember giving a deposition where I asked you a very similar question?

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868.558 - 868.859 Host

Yes, sir.

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869.159 - 874.86 Host

And at that time, you said she didn't want to get married because she had financial issues. 100%. Okay.

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875.6 - 879.781 Host

Not what you just said. No, no. Together with what I just said.

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879.801 - 907.446 Host

All right. I'm going to go ahead and show you that deposition. I'm just going to go ahead and ask you to reference that section where you're talking about that. Yes, sir. And at that time, you did not say anything about the violence. It was about financial issues. I did not. Okay. Now when you're testifying, when your wife is facing murder charges, now your testimony has changed.

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907.686 - 910.711 Host

She was facing murder charges when we had that deposition.

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911.031 - 912.113 Host

But your testimony has changed.

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912.453 - 912.894 Host

It has not.

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915.379 - 945.544 Host

Now, in September of 2016, did you help pour a cement slab in the backyard of the residence where you were now living? I did. And who helped you with that? Lori. Did your brother help you with that as well? No, sir. In order to do that... Did you go and rent a cement mixer from Home Depot? I did. All right. I'm showing you. Show defense. You've been previously demarked with sentences of AA.

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945.564 - 955.108 Host

Do you recognize this receipt? Sure. And is that the receipt for the cement mixer that you rented as a help for this?

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955.148 - 956.048 Host

Yeah, it looked like one. All right.

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956.888 - 962.97 Host

You're all right. This time, the stated move states AA. And to evidence, this states number 27. Any objection? No objection.

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964.784 - 969.825 Host

And can you go ahead and just read out when that was rented?

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970.645 - 972.946 Host

When it was rented? Yes. The date says 9-12-2016.

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972.966 - 990.34 Host

At that commitment ceremony that you referenced in December of 2016, what was Lori wearing? A white dress. Okay. And did someone escort her to where you were?

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991.241 - 993.063 Host

Yes, I'm trying to remember who that was.

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993.223 - 994.143 Host

Was it your grandfather?

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994.744 - 995.685 Host

Yes, sir, there was.

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996.065 - 1018.032 Host

Was there basically some sort of official there doing the proceeding? Correct. For anyone looking at this, this would look like a wedding. 100%. And had you represented to everyone that you were getting buried at that time? No. So no one thought that this was the wedding? No. Showing your witness what had been previously marked as CCC. Do you recognize that photograph?

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1018.112 - 1018.452 Host

Yes, sir.

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1018.512 - 1026.436 Host

Is that a photograph from this commitment ceremony? That is. Is this a true and accurate depiction of the ceremony on that day, December 31st, 2000?

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1027.177 - 1027.557 Host

Yes, sir.

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1027.797 - 1031.959 Host

All right, this time the seat moves CCC into evidence as the next exhibit.

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1033.45 - 1034.09 Host

Any objection?

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1035.391 - 1048.956 Host

Yes, sir. So at the time you were doing this ceremony in this fashion in front of your friends and family, you're saying that you had not represented this as a way.

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1049.976 - 1052.437 Host

That we told everybody it was a ceremony, correct.

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1053.918 - 1065.249 Host

Now, in 2018, law enforcement responds to your call. and eventually skeletal remains are found in your backyard. Do you remember that?

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1066.81 - 1091.077 Host

And at that time, did you ask Ms. Shaver how that body got there? I did not. So this person that you were in this committed relationship with that had told you that her husband had just left, just had no contact with the kids, there's a body found in the backyard, and you don't ask her a single question?

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1091.847 - 1117.346 Host

That's not exactly what happened. Lori called me on the day that the detective showed up at the house. I was at work. I had just gotten off work and she called me sobbing, crying, and I asked her what was wrong. She proceeded to tell me that detectives had shown up at the house and they were asking about Michael. She then told me that they had left. I told her I will be home shortly.

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1117.366 - 1143.236 Host

I worked real close to where we were living and I got home, walked in the house. As soon as I walked in the house, a detective knocked on the door. He proceeded to ask me if I knew anything about Michael. I said, no, I've never met him. I couldn't even tell you what he looked like if you showed me a picture. And which detectives did show me a picture. I was like, okay.

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1143.736 - 1154.922 Host

They just told me, we'll be in touch. And that was that. I walked back in the house. I told Lori, I said, it looks like something serious is going on. You need to get an attorney.

0
💬 0

1155.816 - 1170.461 Host

But specifically, you did not ask her anything about the fact that that body was from the backyard? Correct. Do you remember ever saying that at one point you did ask her about it and she said she had no idea about it?

0
💬 0

1170.842 - 1171.662 Host

No, sir. No.

0
💬 0

1173.663 - 1179.025 Host

After the body was discovered, did you speak with law enforcement?

0
💬 0

1179.645 - 1182.786 Host

I had multiple conversations with law enforcement.

0
💬 0

1183.584 - 1193.87 Host

Did you ever make the statement relaying from Ms. Chambers that it is not that he is missing and it's that he is no longer walking the face of this earth? Have you ever made that statement to law enforcement?

0
💬 0

1194.15 - 1198.973 Host

Thank you for bringing that up because there's a point of clarification. I understand what you're saying.

0
💬 0

1199.033 - 1201.015 Host

Please don't argue. Please answer the question.

0
💬 0

1201.175 - 1201.535 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

1202.175 - 1203.396 Host

I did not make that statement.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1204.597 - 1205.737 Host

You never made that statement to law?

0
💬 0

1205.777 - 1207.338 Host

Not exactly as you're saying it, no.

0
💬 0

1207.739 - 1209.78 Host

Did you ever make that statement to Robert Croker?

0
💬 0

1210.24 - 1211.421 Host

Not as you're saying it, no.

0
💬 0

1211.781 - 1213.022 Host

Who is Robert Croker?

0
💬 0

1213.942 - 1215.623 Host

He's somebody that I have done work for.

0
💬 0

1216.243 - 1217.063 Host

Is he a friend of yours?

0
💬 0

1217.243 - 1217.583 Host

No, sir.

0
💬 0

1218.224 - 1220.525 Host

Have you known him for a long time?

0
💬 0

1220.745 - 1223.006 Host

I have known of him for a long time.

0
💬 0

1224.286 - 1225.467 Host

You have no issues with him, though?

0
💬 0

1225.587 - 1225.967 Host

I do not.

0
💬 0

1227.647 - 1239.424 Host

You are now officially married to Ms. Schaefer, correct? Correct. When did that occur? 2020. Do you have any children with her? I do. How many? Two. What are their names?

0
💬 0

1239.744 - 1241.125 Host

Aralyn and Samuel.

0
💬 0

1242.586 - 1251.411 Host

Has your relationship with your brother and your family changed in any way since you started a relationship with Ms. Shane?

0
💬 0

1252.172 - 1255.974 Host

Not since I started a relationship with her since this investigation started.

0
💬 0

1256.653 - 1265.237 Host

Has there ever been a time where Ms. Shaver used your phone to text your brother or she was acting as if she was you?

0
💬 0

1265.817 - 1266.597 Host

Not to my knowledge.

0
💬 0

1266.978 - 1269.999 Host

Have you ever told anyone that she did that?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1273.24 - 1273.981 Host

Nothing further, Ted.

0
💬 0

1274.281 - 1301.913 Host

Mr. Wiggs. Yes, please. Travis, let's start with one of the last issues that the state was asking you, not some statement. The statement was implying you had made some statement possibly that Lori made about willing to stop walking this earth, something of that nature. Tell us the circumstances of any questioning by law enforcement.

0
💬 0

1303.354 - 1329.83 Host

Law enforcement wanted to have an interview with me, and I did not want to speak with them. One of the detectives had told me that if I do not speak with them, I will feel the full force of the United States government. I ended up having a conversation with that detective. I told him that I was working for Mr. Proper and that him and I were sitting on the back of my truck at the time.

0
💬 0

1330.691 - 1345.658 Host

And he asked me, what did I think was going on? And I proceeded to tell him that based on law enforcement's response, I didn't think that this was a welfare check. I didn't think that he was walking around anymore. I see.

0
💬 0

1346.158 - 1361.363 Host

Now, tell me about, did law enforcement come out to the residents and say they were conducting a welfare check? I believe so. Okay. Did you confront or speak with law enforcement in the backyard about their presence and why they were there?

0
💬 0

1362.544 - 1368.97 Host

No. The only time I spoke with law enforcement at the property was the day that they were doing their investigation. Okay.

0
💬 0

1370.372 - 1378.62 Host

Did law enforcement question you in the yard whether or not you saw anything unusual or anything of that nature?

0
💬 0

1379.2 - 1397.497 Host

During the interview, law enforcement asked me if I had ever seen anything unusual. And I pointed a place out in the very back of the yard and said, if I had to point something out, I would say this is, and it was a large mound. It was a large mound of dirt. So I pointed that out.

0
💬 0

1397.637 - 1428.237 Host

The officer had the property pulled up on his phone, Google Earth, and he proceeded to point me towards the fireplace and asked me if there was anything unusual about the fireplace. I said, no. I said, the only thing that I've ever seen unusual is this very large amount of dirt in the back of the property. He then directed me back to the fireplace. And he did that a few times.

0
💬 0

1428.838 - 1432.534 Host

And I just told him, I said, I have no idea what you're talking about. I see.

0
💬 0

1433.214 - 1462.172 Host

Okay. So there was a period of time at which this patio was poured, correct? I'm sorry, say that again? There was a period of time, as the state referenced, about Megs are being rented, you and Lori pouring the patio, correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Now, the state has suggested... that this day to death was, I believe, around 9-12-16. Objection, Your Honor. Okay.

0
💬 0

1464.493 - 1475.258 Host

Sidebar, please. There's an objection. All right. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, a specific date was stated on the record. Please disregard that date. Thank you.

0
💬 0

1475.718 - 1484.329 Host

Thank you, Judge. So law enforcement directs you to this Patio, correct? Yes, sir. You helped lay the patio, correct? Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

1484.529 - 1496.678 Host

Did you see anything unusual as you laid the patio? No. When Lori and I first met the patio slash fireplace that is in question right now, the dirt was already graded out.

0
💬 0

1497.578 - 1526.43 Host

the form of the fireplace was already there so there was concrete concrete bags in one of the sheds that was at the property when i met lori how long had they sat on the property to your knowledge i have no idea they were there several months or what after lori and i met yeah oh it was it was months months Did there appear to be any hurry to lay a patio? No, sir.

0
💬 0

1526.51 - 1553.44 Host

In fact, the only reason why we decided to lay the patio was Isabel, Lori's oldest daughter, her birthday's in September. So we were going to have a large get-together, a birthday party, and the area around the fire pit was all mud. So we decided, well, the concrete's there in the shed. We're going to go ahead and lay that so people don't have to stand in mud during the celebration.

0
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1554.72 - 1579.416 Host

The mixer that you rented, did you use a credit card or cash? I don't remember. It could have been either or. There wasn't any effort to try to conceal your whereabouts, disguise your presence in there, correct? No. Anybody substitute their presence for you? No, sir. Did you ask anybody other than taking care of this personally? No, sir.

0
💬 0

1580.546 - 1586.93 Host

Did you see evidence of any crime within the residence the whole time you were there? Never. One moment, please, Judge.

0
💬 0

1587.03 - 1588.331 Host

Yes, sir. That's all I have.

0
💬 0

1588.411 - 1589.011 Host

Thank you, Judge.

0
💬 0

1589.171 - 1591.253 Host

Thank you, sir. Redirect. Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

1591.273 - 1593.174 Host

Can you please introduce yourself to the jury?

0
💬 0

1593.454 - 1597.557 Host

Robert Bob Proper. I live in Groveland. I'm not sure what all you need.

0
💬 0

1597.897 - 1599.458 Host

Do you know Travis Duller?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1600.479 - 1601.079 Host

And how do you know him?

0
💬 0

1601.559 - 1604.021 Host

Through my church, Real Life Christian Church.

0
💬 0

1605.001 - 1607.363 Host

And how long have you known Mr. Duller?

0
💬 0

1608.802 - 1613.263 Host

Since approximately 2013, 2014, something like that.

0
💬 0

1613.783 - 1615.923 Host

And what is your relationship? A friend.

0
💬 0

1617.564 - 1624.945 Host

I believe in mentoring and try to work with young men. And he's somebody that I met, and we became friends.

0
💬 0

1625.685 - 1634.287 Host

And through that, have you ever met Lori Shaver? Yes. Has there ever been a time frame where you would socialize with Travis Fulmer and Lori Shaver?

0
💬 0

1635.638 - 1647.125 Host

Well, we did have some small group sessions together with other couples. We did financial counseling and some marital-type relationship counseling.

0
💬 0

1647.766 - 1652.369 Host

Did you have any personal knowledge about when their relationship started or when they went in together or anything like that?

0
💬 0

1653.189 - 1654.55 Host

Not specifically, no.

0
💬 0

1654.93 - 1659.813 Host

And has she ever made any representations about what had happened with her prior husband?

0
💬 0

1661.054 - 1663.796 Host

That she was divorced and he was gone.

0
💬 0

1665.507 - 1682.357 Host

At some point, an investigation starts, and law enforcement is at the Shaver property, and the remains of Michael Shaver are found. Did you have any conversations with Travis Filmer about what was going on at that time?

0
💬 0

1684.479 - 1690.002 Host

Not specifically about those actions. My interaction with him was a little bit different than that.

0
💬 0

1690.845 - 1704.991 Host

At any point did he tell you any statements about what Lori said about Kermit? Sidebar, please. Did Mr. Culver make a statement that he said represented the problem?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1706.632 - 1707.112 Host

What was that?

0
💬 0

1708.781 - 1721.354 Host

We were discussing Mr. Shaver's disappearance and he made the statement basically that it wasn't a matter of he was missing, he was no longer walking the earth.

0
💬 0

1722.396 - 1723.136 Host

Nothing further, Judge.

0
💬 0

1723.777 - 1730.064 Host

All right, Mr. Wiggs. Yeah, please to the court. And was that Mr. Filmer's opinion?

0
💬 0

1731.317 - 1732.238 Host

He's the one that told me.

0
💬 0

1732.458 - 1738.601 Host

Yeah. He made some statement to you that, well, maybe he stopped walking this earth, right?

0
💬 0

1739.762 - 1747.506 Host

He told me that it wasn't a matter of missing, that it was a matter of he wasn't walking the earth. That was what he said. That was his statement to me.

0
💬 0

1747.566 - 1749.507 Host

He speculated, right?

0
💬 0

1749.527 - 1750.367 Host

His statement to me.

0
💬 0

1752.148 - 1755.77 Host

It was his statement. Overruled. Please continue. I'm sorry?

0
💬 0

1756.451 - 1760.233 Host

That's what you speculated his thought process was, correct?

0
💬 0

1760.273 - 1760.593 Host

No, sir.

0
💬 0

1761.721 - 1764.765 Host

Did you get any statement in writing from the SAM?

0
💬 0

1765.526 - 1766.267 Host

I had no need to.

0
💬 0

1766.287 - 1768.71 Host

Did you have a counseling session with me?

0
💬 0

1771.574 - 1773.376 Host

I'm not a counselor. I'm a friend.

0
💬 0

1773.396 - 1774.497 Host

Did you do any counseling?

0
💬 0

1775.419 - 1776.26 Host

Not professionally.

0
💬 0

1776.28 - 1778.282 Host

Did you do any prenatal counseling?

0
💬 0

1778.703 - 1779.504 Host

Not professionally.

0
💬 0

1780.24 - 1782.382 Host

Okay. Well, I mean, you don't hold a degree.

0
💬 0

1782.682 - 1783.022 Host

Correct.

0
💬 0

1783.042 - 1786.665 Host

Do you unofficially hold yourself out and give any kind of counseling?

0
💬 0

1787.286 - 1791.829 Host

I routinely meet with young men and older men. I'm doing that tonight.

0
💬 0

1792.37 - 1797.274 Host

Okay. So you do some counseling and some unofficially counseling?

0
💬 0

1797.554 - 1798.635 Host

I would call it mentoring.

0
💬 0

1799.155 - 1805.3 Host

Mentoring. Okay. That's what you call it. But whatever Travis said to you, stop talking to him. All right.

0
💬 0

1806.321 - 1808.683 Host

Just let him know. Just my word. Okay.

0
💬 0

1809.298 - 1838.55 Host

All I'm doing is repeating what he's told me. Okay. I don't know what you mean by that, but I can... One person may watch TFR, are you mad at him? No, I'm not. He says he doesn't. No, I'm overruled.

0
💬 0

1838.99 - 1839.59 Host

Please proceed.

0
💬 0

1839.991 - 1849.378 Host

Somebody may watch TV and see something on TV and interpret it a little different than the person seated next to him, correct?

0
💬 0

1849.538 - 1850.499 Host

Certainly that can happen.

0
💬 0

1851.72 - 1860.698 Host

Thank you very much. Thank you. Redirect. All right, please be seated. All right, sir, I'm going to make a preliminary inquiry. I'll swear you in.

0
💬 0

1861.158 - 1873.243 Host

Please state and spell your full legal name. My name is Austin James Filmer, A-U-S-T-I-N-J-A-M-E-S-F-I-L-M-E-R. Please raise your right hand.

0
💬 0

1873.343 - 1884.686 Host

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that any testimony you give today shall be the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God? Yes, sir. All right, sir. And are you married? Yes, sir. Who is your wife?

0
💬 0

1884.966 - 1887.326 Host

Rebecca Urbanowski. Okay.

0
💬 0

1888.847 - 1890.607 Host

So Rebecca Urbanowski, not Filmer.

0
💬 0

1891.087 - 1892.468 Host

Correct. She didn't take my last name.

0
💬 0

1892.628 - 1902.102 Host

All right, sir. And... Have you at any time seen your wife, Rebecca Urbanowski, conducting any research regarding this case?

0
💬 0

1902.463 - 1902.803 Host

No, sir.

0
💬 0

1903.324 - 1925.961 Host

Did you see your wife viewing any media concerning this case? No, sir. Have you done any research concerning this case? Have you viewed any media concerning this case? No, sir. Has your wife, Rebecca, spoken to you about conducting any research? In the case? No, sir. Has she spoken to you about commenting, making any comments on social media about the case? No, sir. All right.

0
💬 0

1926.681 - 1929.542 Host

And does the state wish to inquire? No, sir. Okay. Mr. Wiggs?

0
💬 0

1930.062 - 1934.043 Host

No, sir. You know if your wife's looking at any social media?

0
💬 0

1934.323 - 1940.325 Host

No, sir. All right. Is that to the satisfaction of the parties? Yes. All right. Please introduce yourself.

0
💬 0

1940.585 - 1941.545 Host

My name's Austin Filmer.

0
💬 0

1941.966 - 1942.946 Host

You know Travis Filmer?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1943.346 - 1944.006 Host

How do you know him?

0
💬 0

1944.166 - 1944.726 Host

He's my brother.

0
💬 0

1944.746 - 1945.987 Host

Are you older or younger?

0
💬 0

1946.347 - 1946.827 Host

We're twins.

0
💬 0

1947.547 - 1948.327 Host

So are you older or younger?

0
💬 0

1948.527 - 1963.033 Host

I'm four minutes older. All right. Do you know Lori Shaver? I do. And how do you know her? She's married to my brother. You see her in the front room and can you point her out? I do. She's sitting right there. Blonde hair, black jacket, polka dotted blouse.

0
💬 0

1964.173 - 1967.835 Host

Now, when did you first meet the defense?

0
💬 0

1967.975 - 1976.218 Host

I was actually at my place of employment December 2015, I believe. And where do you work? I work at a fitness center in Claremont.

0
💬 0

1976.886 - 1978.928 Host

At the time, what was that fitness center called?

0
💬 0

1979.369 - 1986.777 Host

That was Gold's Gym at the time. And has it changed ownership? Not ownership, but names. What is its current name? Fitness CF.

0
💬 0

1988.163 - 2000.889 Host

Are you married? I am, yes. And what's your wife's name? Rebecca Urbanowski. Did she also work at that same facility at that time frame? Yes, sir, she did. What circumstances did you meet Lori Shaber?

0
💬 0

2001.17 - 2013.135 Host

My position at the time was to do an initial consultation for anyone joining the gym. So she was scheduled to do the first consultation with me, and I conducted the evaluation.

0
💬 0

2013.716 - 2015.837 Host

And approximately when was this?

0
💬 0

2016.797 - 2017.198 Host

December 2015.

0
💬 0

2017.578 - 2027.167 Host

And through that meeting, did your now wife end up becoming involved with a shamer? Yes. And under what capacity was that?

0
💬 0

2027.207 - 2037.496 Host

So again, my job was to do a fitness evaluation and then place the potential client with a personal trainer. And my wife was a personal trainer at the time.

0
💬 0

2038.815 - 2052.62 Host

And did they start basically working together as a client-trainer relationship? Yes, sir. Did they end up becoming friends? Yes. And at a certain point, did Rebecca move into Lori's home?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2053.22 - 2053.82 Host

When was that?

0
💬 0

2054.701 - 2059.943 Host

Not long after. A month or two, maybe? Yeah, not long after.

0
💬 0

2059.963 - 2066.545 Host

So sometime early in 2016? Yes, sir, correct. At any point, did you live at that residence?

0
💬 0

2067.811 - 2073.172 Host

Not per address, but I was there a lot, and I spent a lot of time there.

0
💬 0

2073.852 - 2095.957 Host

And that was because your girlfriend at the time was living there? Yep, correct. And how long was Rebecca living at the Shea Residence? At least six months, at least. At some point, was there something that you believed to be a wedding in December 2016? Yes, sir, correct. Did Rebecca stay living at the home until that time?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2098.226 - 2102.227 Host

How did Travis and Lori end up getting together?

0
💬 0

2102.247 - 2115.991 Host

Through my wife and I. Well, she wasn't my wife at the time, but through my girlfriend and I at the time. My brother and I spent time together. We were together. They were friends and roommates, so we had an outing or two where they were introduced.

0
💬 0

2117.152 - 2123.193 Host

And did there come to be a period of time where your brother and Ms. Shaver started dating?

0
💬 0

2123.593 - 2123.973 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

2124.474 - 2125.434 Host

And when did that start?

0
💬 0

2126.724 - 2129.448 Host

I have to say maybe April, maybe.

0
💬 0

2130.009 - 2131.851 Host

And now we're talking 2016?

0
💬 0

2131.891 - 2132.291 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

2133.253 - 2144.907 Host

During this time frame that your now wife was living over there, was there ever a time that you were over helping pouring a cement slab in and around the fire pit? Yes, sir. And tell me about how that came to be.

0
💬 0

2144.947 - 2160.341 Host

Sure. My brother contacted me, asking me to help him pour concrete around an existing fire, fire pit, I should say. He stated that Lori wanted concrete poured around the fire pit itself. And I told him, sure, I'd help him out.

0
💬 0

2160.901 - 2162.102 Host

And you ever poured a smith's lap?

0
💬 0

2162.202 - 2162.522 Host

No, sir.

0
💬 0

2163.243 - 2163.724 Host

As your brother?

0
💬 0

2165.105 - 2166.026 Host

Not to my knowledge.

0
💬 0

2166.666 - 2168.728 Host

Did you guys have difficulties in pouring?

0
💬 0

2168.908 - 2169.469 Host

Yes, sir, we did.

0
💬 0

2170.345 - 2195.679 Host

Now, after the body was found underneath that slab, did you ever have any conversations with Morty or your brother about that? Not to a large extent. I'm just asking if you had the conversations. Up until that point, had Lori ever said anything about the whereabouts of her previous husband? Not to me directly.

0
💬 0

2196.659 - 2205.584 Host

Were you ever present when Travis was talking to detectives about things Lori had said about the body underneath that slab?

0
💬 0

2205.784 - 2206.464 Host

Yes, sir, I was.

0
💬 0

2207.125 - 2213.268 Host

And what did you hear him say to the detectives about her husband and the body underneath that slab?

0
💬 0

2213.408 - 2214.749 Host

Objection. You're safe.

0
💬 0

2216.747 - 2222.752 Host

Sidebar, please. What did you hear your brother say to the detectives about that?

0
💬 0

2223.212 - 2243.147 Host

So the conversation from the detectives was a conversation that my brother had with another gentleman. And they asked him details of Michael's whereabouts, if he's known anything about their whereabouts. And his reply was something along the lines of he's no longer walking the earth.

0
💬 0

2243.945 - 2250.829 Host

Now, since Lori became involved with your brother, has your relationship with him changed?

0
💬 0

2250.969 - 2251.489 Host

Extremely.

0
💬 0

2252.53 - 2253.51 Host

And how so?

0
💬 0

2254.071 - 2254.711 Host

For the negative.

0
💬 0

2254.731 - 2258.213 Host

Do you have as much contact with him?

0
💬 0

2258.273 - 2263.103 Host

Not nearly as much as we used to. Are you able to visit in that spot? No, I cannot go over there.

0
💬 0

2263.603 - 2270.407 Host

Has there ever been a time that you received text messages from your brother that you thought were unusual?

0
💬 0

2270.827 - 2271.167 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

2271.547 - 2273.268 Host

And why do they seem unusual to you?

0
💬 0

2273.308 - 2286.116 Host

I know the language that my brother and I use when we're speaking to each other. We say things like bro and dude. I have received texts where that language was completely changed. It was more of a direct language than anything.

0
💬 0

2286.976 - 2292.738 Host

And have you ever asked him about those messages and whether or not he sent them?

0
💬 0

2293.018 - 2293.338 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

2293.578 - 2294.999 Host

And what did he tell you about that?

0
💬 0

2295.199 - 2297.879 Host

He told me it was not him and that I was blocked on his phone.

0
💬 0

2298.6 - 2302.241 Host

Has he ever made any statements about Lori making those texts to you?

0
💬 0

2302.541 - 2305.202 Host

He has told me that she blocked me on his phone, yes.

0
💬 0

2305.582 - 2308.703 Host

But as far as the text messages that were unusual?

0
💬 0

2309.303 - 2309.663 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

2311.4 - 2326.614 Host

Sidebar, please. Mr. Filmer, the specific text messages I'm referring to are the ones that you thought were unusual and were out of character for your brother. You ever asked him about the source of those texts? Yes, sir. And what did he tell you?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2330.277 - 2345.606 Host

Now, December 31st, 2016, did you attend a wedding ceremony at the chamber residence? Yes, sir. And who was that between? My brother and Lori. Nothing further, Judge.

0
💬 0

2345.986 - 2346.607 Host

Mr. Wiggs?

0
💬 0

2347.727 - 2359.354 Host

You're talking about an email you received, correct? An email? Yeah, or text. A text, yes. Okay, so you get a text on one day. Your brother denies that he sent it, correct?

0
💬 0

2361.048 - 2361.689 Host

Yes, correct. Okay.

0
💬 0

2361.729 - 2364.81 Host

Do you have a witness to homicide in this case, correct?

0
💬 0

2365.151 - 2365.491 Host

No, sir.

0
💬 0

2365.871 - 2381.981 Host

Okay. You were not present to testify here about any event of violence that may have occurred, correct? Correct. Okay. What you're saying is you got an email on one day and your brother tells you where he's sitting, correct?

0
💬 0

2382.141 - 2383.742 Host

For the questions that were asked, yes.

0
💬 0

2384.402 - 2384.843 Host

Thank you.

0
💬 0

2385.343 - 2385.823 Host

Redirect?

0
💬 0

2386.123 - 2386.403 Host

No, sir.

0
💬 0

2386.423 - 2388.805 Host

Good morning. Can you please introduce yourself to the jury?

0
💬 0

2389.827 - 2396.132 Host

My name is Wilma Nicholas. Yes. He was my neighbor.

0
💬 0

2397.353 - 2400.136 Host

When you say he was your neighbor, where were you living?

0
💬 0

2400.156 - 2401.777 Host

Sandy Pines Road in Claremont.

0
💬 0

2403.118 - 2408.243 Host

Ultimately, when you're referring to being a neighbor, a neighbor to the residence where his body was especially found.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2409.204 - 2415.249 Host

As the neighbor, did you also know Lori Shearer? Yes. I see her in the courtroom and can you identify her by something that she's wearing?

0
💬 0

2415.988 - 2419.911 Host

She's sitting over at the defendant table wearing a black blazer.

0
💬 0

2420.411 - 2424.154 Host

How long did you live next door to the Shavers?

0
💬 0

2424.814 - 2426.536 Host

The entire time that they lived there.

0
💬 0

2427.416 - 2428.137 Host

You were there first?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2429.058 - 2430.839 Host

When did they first move in?

0
💬 0

2430.859 - 2436.503 Host

In 2014. What kind of neighborhood is it? It's rural, country, farm.

0
💬 0

2436.923 - 2449.305 Host

Now, I'm going to go ahead and show... Photograph number one from States Exhibit 15. Do you recognize this property?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2450.745 - 2452.326 Host

Okay. And what property is this?

0
💬 0

2453.186 - 2454.447 Host

That's the Shaver property.

0
💬 0

2454.807 - 2461.069 Host

Can you just step down and point without touching on the screen where your property is in relation to that?

0
💬 0

2461.449 - 2470.226 Host

Wharton. This is my house. This was a tech room, passport, garage, and a barn.

0
💬 0

2471.087 - 2473.829 Host

Is there any sort of fence or anything like that between the two properties?

0
💬 0

2473.849 - 2476.31 Host

It's a cattle fence that's just wire.

0
💬 0

2476.93 - 2479.752 Host

So it's nothing that will prevent you from seeing anything?

0
💬 0

2479.772 - 2480.273 Host

No. All right.

0
💬 0

2480.693 - 2485.095 Host

Go ahead and have a seat. Thank you. Now, would you ever socialize with them?

0
💬 0

2485.776 - 2487.097 Host

Yes, in the beginning we did.

0
💬 0

2487.898 - 2493.462 Host

Was there a period of time in 2014 that Michael Shaver moved out of the home?

0
💬 0

2494.642 - 2495.903 Host

Several periods of time.

0
💬 0

2495.923 - 2499.406 Host

And when did he move back in the home?

0
💬 0

2499.866 - 2509.852 Host

Well, he was gone periodically. Whenever there would be a dispute, she would have him leave, and then she would bring him back. So it was multiple times.

0
💬 0

2510.353 - 2514.736 Host

When was the last time that he moved?

0
💬 0

2516.849 - 2518.51 Host

It was 2015 in the summer.

0
💬 0

2518.53 - 2526.156 Host

Now, did you see as a neighbor or any of the times that you socialized Michael interacting with his children?

0
💬 0

2527.016 - 2528.357 Host

Yes, sometimes, yeah.

0
💬 0

2528.838 - 2530.659 Host

When you would see it, how was he?

0
💬 0

2531.299 - 2533.221 Host

Very loving, patient, calm.

0
💬 0

2533.973 - 2539.22 Host

Have you ever seen him do anything for the kids in the backyard? Yes. What types of things did he do?

0
💬 0

2539.32 - 2546.931 Host

Well, he built a barn. He built a chicken coop, I think a bunny hutch. He was working on a duck pond.

0
💬 0

2547.291 - 2549.515 Host

When did that construction start?

0
💬 0

2550.174 - 2551.855 Host

It was in the summer, I believe, of 2015.

0
💬 0

2552.275 - 2558.539 Host

And when we were talking about pushing in the duck pond, what type of work had been done on that?

0
💬 0

2558.799 - 2567.404 Host

He had dug an area. It wasn't very deep. He was pretty meticulous, too, with everything that he did there. So it was very neat and tidy.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2577.638 - 2578.058 Host

Right here.

0
💬 0

2578.418 - 2586.721 Host

Okay. Now, eventually, was there a period of time where it changed from a hole of a duck pond to something else? Yes. And what was that?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2597.765 - 2615.381 Host

Thank you. Now, have you seen or spoken to Michael Shaver since November of 2013? No, I have not. When did you first notice that the hole, well, that the area that was supposed to be a duck pond had been filled in with a fire?

0
💬 0

2616.262 - 2618.984 Host

It would have been around in the spring of 2016, maybe early part of the year.

0
💬 0

2623.931 - 2651.905 Host

Now, between the time frame in November of 2015, where you left, saw, or spoke with Michael Schaefer, and when you noticed that that fire pit started being put in, did you spell anything unusual in the proximity of your home, the neighborhood, things of that nature? Yes. In this rural setting, are there time frames where there are dead animals, cattle, horses, things of that nature?

0
💬 0

2652.384 - 2672.484 Host

Once in a while, my neighbor behind me had cattle, and probably in 2007, 6, 7, a cow died on her pasture. She didn't bury it. She just left it there. So whenever the wind blew up to my house, it was horrible. It was disgusting. So I was very familiar with that smell.

0
💬 0

2672.825 - 2673.745 Host

Very distinctive smell.

0
💬 0

2673.786 - 2674.767 Host

You don't forget it.

0
💬 0

2675.427 - 2687.052 Host

Now, in that timeframe between November of 2015 and when the fire pit started being installed, was there a timeframe that you smelled that this thing would smell again?

0
💬 0

2687.132 - 2688.092 Host

Yes, I did.

0
💬 0

2688.832 - 2697.916 Host

Now, based on your prior experiences in the neighborhood with the livestock and cattle, did that cause an immediate concern?

0
💬 0

2698.587 - 2711.6 Host

Yes. Actually, my son and I were on the back porch, and we were talking, and I had been smelling it, but he had just come, and he wrinkled his nose and said, Do you smell that? And I said, Yeah.

0
💬 0

2711.96 - 2717.806 Host

But nothing rose from the level of he felt that he felt alone because of the other livestock or anything?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2718.887 - 2728.817 Host

At some point... That area that was being used as a fire pit, I have a cement slab put in. Yes. And you remember when that was?

0
💬 0

2729.818 - 2741.41 Host

It was around in 2016. I believe there's two layers of cement that was done. The first one I think was in the beginning of the year.

0
💬 0

2744.091 - 2773.505 Host

springtime and then later on in the year during the summer i know it was an area that they actually launched fireworks off of during the fourth of july so i believe it was covered by then nothing further judge mr wiggs yes please yes sir sam you testified that you had smelled the dead cow in that area correct many years ago yes okay and the

0
💬 0

2774.435 - 2776.377 Host

Shavers also had pigs, correct?

0
💬 0

2776.757 - 2777.518 Host

Not at that time.

0
💬 0

2777.959 - 2779.72 Host

Well, tell me what time it was.

0
💬 0

2781.142 - 2785.686 Host

Pigs came in probably later in 2016, I think.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2786.367 - 2795.176 Host

I think there was one pot-bellied pig that was in and out of the house, and I'm not sure exactly when that arrived.

0
💬 0

2795.436 - 2797.658 Host

Okay. That never happened.

0
💬 0

2799.289 - 2802.51 Host

Yes. Not dinner. Yeah, we did.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2806.791 - 2824.396 Host

I didn't go to their house to have dinner. We had invited them over to our place for, it was an Easter barbecue cookout, and I'd made Easter baskets for the two kids and my grandson, and they went and hunted eggs that day. Not inside the house, no.

0
💬 0

2824.416 - 2837.537 Host

In fact, looking at this photo... This is your house, right? Correct. And there's not a clear line of sight between your house and this fire pit, is there?

0
💬 0

2837.637 - 2838.217 Host

Yes, there is.

0
💬 0

2838.837 - 2855.475 Host

There's a clear line of sight? Yes. Can we look at that and see a clear line of sight? Yes. Okay. Now, you don't go to the Shaber residence, correct? Correct. Yeah, I'd been to it several times. Did you sit down with Ms. Shaver on occasion to have tea, sit there and talk to her?

0
💬 0

2855.555 - 2861.319 Host

Not having tea, but I do recall I did go one time and sat and had quite a lengthy conversation with her.

0
💬 0

2863.28 - 2865.142 Host

Was that complaining about the pigs?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2865.802 - 2870.806 Host

Did you ever complain to Ms. Shaver about any of the animals?

0
💬 0

2871.246 - 2873.127 Host

No, not to her, no.

0
💬 0

2873.427 - 2875.189 Host

Did they ever kill a pig over there?

0
💬 0

2875.959 - 2879.442 Host

I don't know. They had animals that died frequently over there.

0
💬 0

2879.622 - 2884.345 Host

Okay. So they had animals on the property. They had some pigs, correct?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2885.586 - 2889.549 Host

Okay. And there was a neighbor behind y'all with horses, correct?

0
💬 0

2890.169 - 2895.573 Host

They came in 2016 and started a horse farm back there.

0
💬 0

2895.593 - 2902.638 Host

Okay. So we had horses in the area, a lady with a cow that died. We had the shavers next door with some pigs, correct?

0
💬 0

2903.499 - 2905.2 Host

There were not pigs there at the time.

0
💬 0

2905.808 - 2930.96 Host

okay okay so do you know the date of death of michael shaver no okay so when you say at the time you don't know when michael shaver died do you i do know there was a period of time in 2015 and there weren't pigs there at that time they have any rabbits or other animals they did have rabbits and i believe that came a little later

0
💬 0

2931.9 - 2937.344 Host

And you said this was, when did you detect, or when was the patio put in?

0
💬 0

2939.925 - 2947.51 Host

I believe some cement was poured sometime around in the spring of 2016. I did not see it being poured.

0
💬 0

2947.71 - 2952.874 Host

So you never saw it pour. We see there's not really a clear line of sight from your house, correct?

0
💬 0

2953.234 - 2953.934 Host

Yes, there is.

0
💬 0

2954.595 - 2956.836 Host

Okay. One moment.

0
💬 0

2957.396 - 2957.697 Host

Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

2958.197 - 2959.518 Host

That's all I have. Thank you, Judge.

0
💬 0

2959.758 - 2961.159 Host

All right. Thank you. Redirect?

0
💬 0

2962.219 - 2969.001 Host

Nicholas, can you explain to the jury why you're saying you have a clear way outside over here?

0
💬 0

2969.301 - 2981.805 Host

Well, in the back, on the backside of my house, I had a really large deck porch. And from there, I could see directly over. Also, as I mentioned, it was a carport, which was completely open all the way through.

0
💬 0

2981.825 - 2988.242 Host

Nothing further, Chuck. All right. When you please introduce yourself to the jury.

0
💬 0

2988.703 - 2993.967 Host

My name is Megan Cleek. Where do you work now? I'm working for the University of Maryland Global Campus.

0
💬 0

2994.268 - 2995.028 Host

What do you do for that?

0
💬 0

2995.489 - 2996.45 Host

I'm a student advisor.

0
💬 0

2997.03 - 2998.131 Host

Where did you work before that?

0
💬 0

2998.912 - 3004.477 Host

Before that, I worked with the Maryland State Police as a member of the firearms section of their crime laboratory.

0
💬 0

3004.957 - 3006.639 Host

What did you do for their crime lab?

0
💬 0

3007.253 - 3018.236 Host

The possession of a firearms examiner within a crime laboratory is responsible for the receipt, evaluation, examination of evidence specific to firearms examination.

0
💬 0

3018.256 - 3028.119 Host

Were you provided some evidence in this case of State of Florida v. Lori Shaver? Yes, I was. Evidently, were you provided a firearm?

0
💬 0

3028.839 - 3029.439 Host

Yes, I was.

0
💬 0

3029.499 - 3032.12 Host

Were you provided a fired projectile?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3033.38 - 3039.086 Host

Schilling has put in reviews that states it's evidence 46. Do you recognize that item?

0
💬 0

3040.406 - 3040.906 Host

Yes, I do.

0
💬 0

3041.947 - 3043.467 Host

Is that firearm currently unloaded?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3044.708 - 3049.21 Host

Can you describe to the jury, and if you could show it to the jury as you're describing it, describe the firearm.

0
💬 0

3050.01 - 3059.454 Host

This is one .38 Special Caliber Cobra Enterprises Model Shadow 5-shot revolver.

0
💬 0

3060.233 - 3061.434 Host

Did you examine that firearm?

0
💬 0

3061.714 - 3062.254 Host

Yes, I did.

0
💬 0

3062.274 - 3066.956 Host

Is that firearm considered a single or double action firearm?

0
💬 0

3067.437 - 3069.558 Host

This is a double action only firearm.

0
💬 0

3070.798 - 3074.54 Host

Does it require more effort to fire a double action firearm?

0
💬 0

3075.38 - 3084.685 Host

It does require a longer or more aggressive trigger pull. It requires both the cocking of the hammer and the releasing of the firing mechanism.

0
💬 0

3085.105 - 3086.466 Host

What's meant by the term turner pull?

0
💬 0

3087.165 - 3093.487 Host

Trigger pull would be the weight that is required to pull the trigger fully to the rear, cocking and releasing the firing mechanism.

0
💬 0

3094.787 - 3104.23 Host

When you examine this firearm, did you perform any kind of a trigger pull analysis? I did not. At the time, did Florida Department of Law Enforcement do that type of testing?

0
💬 0

3104.87 - 3107.731 Host

It would not have been required on this particular examination.

0
💬 0

3109.132 - 3113.053 Host

What did you do with that firearm to begin your examination of it?

0
💬 0

3114.275 - 3130.34 Host

The first step in the process of examining a firearm is to evaluate its design and its function. This is for safety purposes. So I documented the make, the model, the caliber of the firearm. I also documented how it would function.

0
💬 0

3130.36 - 3131.921 Host

What were your results of that?

0
💬 0

3132.83 - 3144.137 Host

That's where I determined, again, that this is a Cobra Enterprises firearm. It's a model shadow. It's a double action only function. It has a cylinder that holds five cartridges.

0
💬 0

3144.157 - 3145.298 Host

Did you test fire it?

0
💬 0

3145.678 - 3146.418 Host

I did, yes.

0
💬 0

3146.638 - 3148.94 Host

What's your purpose in actually firing the gun?

0
💬 0

3149.631 - 3166.854 Host

The purpose of firing the firearm in the laboratory is one, to determine its function. The second is to create known test fires. These are known exemplars, bullets and cartridge cases that I know because I processed the firearm to have been fired in and from this specific firearm.

0
💬 0

3166.874 - 3170.015 Host

Did the firearm function as it should when you fired it?

0
💬 0

3170.315 - 3170.735 Host

Yes, it did.

0
💬 0

3170.755 - 3177.177 Host

I'm assuming when you fire the gun and retrieve those test fires, you fire it into like a water canister of some sort?

0
💬 0

3177.677 - 3179.257 Host

Yes, it's a large tank of water.

0
💬 0

3180.874 - 3188.997 Host

Are you then able to take those fired projectiles and compare them to other projectiles provided to you by law enforcement?

0
💬 0

3189.717 - 3200.301 Host

Yes. Creating known test fires allows me to compare unknown bullets in cartridge cases to, again, exemplars that I know to have been fired from a specific firearm.

0
💬 0

3200.621 - 3201.802 Host

Did you do that in this case?

0
💬 0

3202.022 - 3202.582 Host

Yes, I did.

0
💬 0

3203.002 - 3207.624 Host

What kind of markings are left on a projectile after it's fired out of the gun?

0
💬 0

3208.459 - 3236.792 Host

The class characteristic markings that are left on a projectile as the result of firing would be the land and groove impressions. These are the helical grooves inside the barrel of a firearm that produce the spin to a bullet, much like we throw a football with a spin, a bullet is fired with a spin. These helical grooves have a certain number, a certain direction, and a certain width.

0
💬 0

3237.452 - 3261.309 Host

And those direction, width, and number will differ between firearms. There are also individual characteristics that are transferred to a bullet during the firing process. These are called striations. They're resultant of the manufacturing process in that those helical grooves are cut by a tool into the barrel of a firearm. They're unique to that firearm.

0
💬 0

3261.749 - 3266.673 Host

You also provided a projectile recovered from the stall of Michael Shaver.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3268.684 - 3273.547 Host

You know, he wasn't introduced into the United States until he was 20. Do you recognize that item first?

0
💬 0

3274.448 - 3275.028 Host

Yes, I do.

0
💬 0

3275.048 - 3280.611 Host

Did you examine that projectile recovered from the skull that he just looked at?

0
💬 0

3280.851 - 3281.372 Host

Yes, I did.

0
💬 0

3281.392 - 3286.214 Host

Can you describe to the jury what condition that projectile was in when you first looked at it?

0
💬 0

3287.055 - 3295.82 Host

The projectile was in very rough condition, both its shape and material that was surrounding the projectile upon its receipt.

0
💬 0

3296.477 - 3324.611 Host

Because of the condition of that projectile, and if you consider that projectile was located in the ground for some period of time, could that affect the markings left on that projectile by the firearm that fired? Yes. Despite the damage... the damaged condition of that projectile, were you able to determine the caliber of projectile or caliber class of the projectile?

0
💬 0

3324.811 - 3325.391 Host

Yes, I was.

0
💬 0

3325.972 - 3327.793 Host

What is my caliber or caliber class?

0
💬 0

3328.313 - 3332.135 Host

The caliber was determined to be 38 caliber class.

0
💬 0

3333.815 - 3343.3 Host

Did you examine that damaged projectile to determine whether or not it couldn't have been fired from the firearm we looked at earlier, that pink and black Cobra revolver?

0
💬 0

3344.102 - 3352.15 Host

Yes, the class characteristics present on the fired bullet and the class characteristics of the firearm agreed.

0
💬 0

3352.17 - 3365.383 Host

Am I correct that all of the other characteristics of the gun in the bullet are consistent? You just can't say that that specific tool was fired from that gun because of the lack of individual characteristics. That is true.

0
💬 0

3366.101 - 3377.269 Host

Bottom line, the projectile could have been fired from that gun based on the consistency of all those different things we talked about, and you can't say scientifically if it actually was. That's correct. Thank you so much. I have no other questions.

0
💬 0

3377.289 - 3378.57 Host

All right. Thank you. Mr. Wiggs.

0
💬 0

3380.491 - 3390.238 Host

Mr. Buxman started off at, at your testimony, you had received a projectile from...

0
💬 0

3393.726 - 3397.908 Host

The projectile is transferred to me from the evidence section of the laboratory.

0
💬 0

3397.928 - 3424.599 Host

The comparison of individual characteristics was inconclusive, correct? So that's a good summation. There was no connection between that gun there and the projectile that was delivered to you, correct?

0
💬 0

3426.061 - 3435.17 Host

The examination resulted in the conclusion that all class characteristics were in agreement. The result of the individual comparison was inconclusive.

0
💬 0

3435.791 - 3439.675 Host

How many guns fit into that class?

0
💬 0

3441.311 - 3443.871 Host

Thousands of guns, if not tens of thousands, correct.

0
💬 0

3444.272 - 3452.253 Host

We were talking about double action, single action by firearms. Did you fire the projectile sample?

0
💬 0

3453.173 - 3455.413 Host

I was responsible for firing the test fires.

0
💬 0

3455.734 - 3463.395 Host

Okay. What's the advantage, the amount of force that's required on that gun to discharge a projectile?

0
💬 0

3464.115 - 3466.295 Host

The trigger pull on this firearm was not measured.

0
💬 0

3466.856 - 3469.336 Host

Okay. Any specific reason?

0
💬 0

3469.958 - 3473.821 Host

That was not part of the policy or procedure for an examination of this type.

0
💬 0

3474.281 - 3477.984 Host

Did law enforcement ever contact you at any time and request it?

0
💬 0

3478.365 - 3478.865 Host

They did not.

0
💬 0

3480.586 - 3483.969 Host

State Attorney's Office ever contact you and request that?

0
💬 0

3484.67 - 3487.672 Host

The State Attorney's Office would not contact me directly.

0
💬 0

3487.932 - 3495.418 Host

Okay. When you have a double action pistol as well, you can pull the hammer back and lock it, correct? Correct.

0
💬 0

3497.054 - 3499.436 Host

Not in a double action only firearm, no.

0
💬 0

3499.776 - 3505.04 Host

Okay. Can you pull the hammer back, lock it, and then discharge it by the trigger?

0
💬 0

3505.36 - 3507.322 Host

In a double action only firearm, no.

0
💬 0

3507.702 - 3509.163 Host

Okay. Single action?

0
💬 0

3510.484 - 3515.908 Host

In a single action firearm, a hammer can be pulled back and locked into position.

0
💬 0

3515.928 - 3520.472 Host

Okay. And then it can be released by a separate trigger pull, correct?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3521.172 - 3531.272 Host

Okay. So once the hammer is locked back, Does it require less force on the trigger on that type of car?

0
💬 0

3531.932 - 3567.475 Host

That is a question that could not be answered because the trigger pull of this double action only firearm was not measured. And I do not know the trigger pull of a single action. One could or could not be heavier than the other. I would not be qualified to answer that question. Approximately 15 years in firearms examination. I don't know anything about a child pulling a trigger.

0
💬 0

3567.495 - 3572.48 Host

I don't have any further questions. Thank you, Judge. All right, redirect.

0
💬 0

3573.961 - 3576.884 Host

Good morning.

0
💬 0

3576.944 - 3577.845 Host

I am Tara Mitchell.

0
💬 0

3578.766 - 3579.587 Host

What do you do for a living?

0
💬 0

3580.706 - 3586.089 Host

I currently work with mental behavior at Livestream.

0
💬 0

3587.109 - 3588.55 Host

Prior to that, where did you work?

0
💬 0

3589.23 - 3592.552 Host

I was the manager at Mariner Finance.

0
💬 0

3593.172 - 3594.813 Host

What did Mariner Finance do?

0
💬 0

3595.993 - 3599.015 Host

We did personal secured and unsecured loans.

0
💬 0

3599.495 - 3600.415 Host

How long did you work there?

0
💬 0

3601.096 - 3601.636 Host

Nine years.

0
💬 0

3601.656 - 3608.059 Host

I want to direct your attention back to November 2015. Were you working at Mariner Financial at the same capacity then?

0
💬 0

3609.071 - 3611.772 Host

At that particular time, I was an assistant manager.

0
💬 0

3611.792 - 3617.314 Host

Did Mariner Financial extend a loan to Michael Shaver in November of 2015?

0
💬 0

3617.955 - 3632.481 Host

At that time, we had mailers that came out from the corporate office, and they were sent out to several different people in several different cities.

0
💬 0

3633.464 - 3638.698 Host

Can you explain to the jury kind of how that worked? Were they just kind of sent unsolicited to people's residences?

0
💬 0

3640.2 - 3656.63 Host

Not totally sure as to how corporate determined as to who they were going to send it to, but it would have something to do with their credit. And we call them LBMs, which is the loan by mail. And so they would send them out to different people.

0
💬 0

3657.05 - 3665.355 Host

So this is not a situation where somebody comes to your financial institution and says, hey, I need a loan. This is a financial institution reaching out to people to say, hey, I need a loan.

0
💬 0

3666.155 - 3672.379 Host

Absolutely, and it made it look really good because they gave you a certain amount and all it required you to do was fill out some information on the back.

0
💬 0

3673.679 - 3695.392 Host

Your Honor, this time the state would move into evidence states exhibit DD, as in dog, as states exhibit 29 as a business record certification and notice has been provided. Any objection? Using the process that you just described was a loan extended to Michael Shamer via mail.

0
💬 0

3695.908 - 3696.749 Host

Yes, it was.

0
💬 0

3698.47 - 3701.852 Host

And how, in what form would that loan have been extended?

0
💬 0

3703.013 - 3719.045 Host

A check was mailed directly to an address that was attached to his social, and that's all it would require for them to do is fill the information out on the back and submit it to a bank or deposit it.

0
💬 0

3720.103 - 3726.567 Host

So a check is sent to Michael Shaver's residence in the mail with basically a loan check.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3727.767 - 3735.151 Host

Describe the process. How would somebody accept that loan or accept the money in that check when it was mailed to them?

0
💬 0

3735.792 - 3742.956 Host

They would be required to sign it on their telephone number as to how they could be reached.

0
💬 0

3743.703 - 3759.161 Host

I want to show you what that is. It's a 30. And do you recognize the check that I'm showing you? Absolutely. All right. If, say, someone doesn't pay that loan back or misses payments, does the bank... have a log to show the attempts the bank made to collect that money?

0
💬 0

3759.361 - 3765.184 Host

Absolutely. From the moment it is cashed, within 72 hours, we have to make contact with them.

0
💬 0

3765.505 - 3768.426 Host

And is that what these documents are contained in this exhibit at 630?

0
💬 0

3768.606 - 3769.227 Host

Absolutely.

0
💬 0

3769.247 - 3770.067 Host

Do you recognize them?

0
💬 0

3771.088 - 3771.648 Host

Absolutely.

0
💬 0

3771.748 - 3773.209 Host

Okay. Are they accurate?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3783.764 - 3788.546 Host

And to what address was that check sent?

0
💬 0

3789.446 - 3793.067 Host

9850 Sandy Pines Road, Claremont, Florida, 34711.

0
💬 0

3793.427 - 3796.268 Host

When was that check mailed out to Michael Shaver's address?

0
💬 0

3796.968 - 3799.869 Host

It had to be mailed before 11-30-2015.

0
💬 0

3803.582 - 3812.794 Host

What was done with that check to signify that the loan was accepted by whoever filled out this information at the back of the check?

0
💬 0

3813.054 - 3827.248 Host

Because there are signatures on the back of the check and phone numbers listed with the date. And what was the phone number listed on the back of the check?

0
💬 0

3827.268 - 3833.554 Host

352-431-5121 Was there a date written on the back of the check signifying when it was accepted?

0
💬 0

3834.034 - 3834.675 Host

Absolutely.

0
💬 0

3834.915 - 3848.611 Host

What date was that? 12-11-15 Would that information have been filled in by whoever received the check at the address? Absolutely. That's not information filled out by you or by the bank?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3849.933 - 3855.7 Host

Does the filling out of that information on the back of the check signify an acceptance of the loan?

0
💬 0

3856.121 - 3856.742 Host

Absolutely.

0
💬 0

3858.146 - 3861.632 Host

Did Michael Shaver have any in an account with Meritor Financial or anything?

0
💬 0

3862.633 - 3863.936 Host

Not until he cashed his check.

0
💬 0

3864.316 - 3872.61 Host

What were the terms of the repayment of this loan? For instance, if the loan was accepted, what would be the monthly payments that you make?

0
💬 0

3873.52 - 3874.781 Host

30 monthly payments of $122.89.

0
💬 0

3875.201 - 3894.234 Host

Were any of the monthly payments made in this case regarding this loan extended to Michael Shaver? Absolutely not. All right. Was there ever any personal or phone contact from Michael Shaver to the Mariner Financial Institution regarding the repayment of this loan?

0
💬 0

3894.854 - 3895.695 Host

Absolutely not.

0
💬 0

3896.075 - 3902.059 Host

What was done to try to reach Michael Shaver from Mariner Financial to get this loan paid off him?

0
💬 0

3903.635 - 3916.781 Host

First, it's solicitation calls to have them to come in, but we never made contact. And after 30 days being delinquent, it goes into collections, and we start collection calls on a daily basis.

0
💬 0

3917.281 - 3919.422 Host

What do you mean by a solicitation call was made?

0
💬 0

3919.702 - 3945.991 Host

when lbms the loans by mails are sent out there's really no real contact with the customer other than what is written on the back of the check so to make it more of a personal we solicit an extra 500 for coming into the bank and signing up to come over onto a mariner paper where so we're able to have better access and we'll know a little bit more about the client

0
💬 0

3946.431 - 3951.315 Host

Okay. So you reach out to the person who accepted the loan and say, hey, why don't you come on into our bank?

0
💬 0

3951.915 - 3954.337 Host

According to the number that they put on the back of the check.

0
💬 0

3954.517 - 3961.662 Host

Okay. When is that done in relation to the acceptance of the loan and you getting information that the loan has been accepted?

0
💬 0

3962.694 - 3974.465 Host

Within 24 to 72 hours, we're notified that a check has been cashed. So it automatically appears in our system of new loan by mails.

0
💬 0

3974.805 - 3977.988 Host

That when you reach out for these solicitations, they come into our bank.

0
💬 0

3978.268 - 3978.949 Host

That is correct.

0
💬 0

3979.98 - 3987.826 Host

Was that done in this case? Absolutely. Was any response received by the bank from Michael Shaver?

0
💬 0

3988.106 - 3990.708 Host

There were no answering of the phone calls.

0
💬 0

3991.169 - 4002.277 Host

When the time for the first payment came due, you had already indicated that no payment was made. What did the bank do or you do to try to make contact with Michael Shaver?

0
💬 0

4003.098 - 4015.171 Host

We started reaching out with the number that was on the back. We will use pre... websites where we can look up to try to find if there's any other numbers that's attached to the name.

0
💬 0

4015.191 - 4021.536 Host

Did the bank continue to try to reach out to Michael Shaver for a lengthy period of time?

0
💬 0

4021.616 - 4024.498 Host

Oh, absolutely. It doesn't charge off until 180 days.

0
💬 0

4024.518 - 4027.561 Host

What do you mean by charge off?

0
💬 0

4028.086 - 4031.027 Host

We have no payments, so unfortunately.

0
💬 0

4031.607 - 4032.447 Host

Did I ask you this?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4033.168 - 4043.251 Host

Okay. Let me direct your attention specifically to February 17, 2015. Did you specifically try to call the no front rooms listed on the back of the check?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4044.311 - 4045.372 Host

What happened when you did that?

0
💬 0

4046.012 - 4051.514 Host

A female answered the phone and stated she had just gotten that particular phone that Friday before.

0
💬 0

4053.243 - 4059.746 Host

Basically indicating, I don't know what you're talking about. This is the wrong number. Absolutely. Did you have any personal knowledge as far as who you were speaking with?

0
💬 0

4060.126 - 4061.167 Host

I had no idea.

0
💬 0

4061.747 - 4070.611 Host

Was the loan eventually turned over to collections when the payments weren't made? Yes, it was. It's within the Mariner financial system, but it's turned over to a different department?

0
💬 0

4070.951 - 4073.393 Host

At that time, after 180, it goes to a higher level.

0
💬 0

4074.693 - 4080.476 Host

Did anyone by the name of Lori Shaver ever contact Mariner Financial about this loan?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4081.756 - 4092.024 Host

If that would have happened, would there have been notes in your... Absolutely. Did you eventually speak with a Sergeant Tammy Dale from the Lake County Sheriff's Office?

0
💬 0

4092.224 - 4092.784 Host

Yes, I did.

0
💬 0

4093.185 - 4097.468 Host

Once you spoke with Sergeant Dale, what was ultimately done with this loan?

0
💬 0

4098.749 - 4100.11 Host

It eventually charged off.

0
💬 0

4100.931 - 4101.671 Host

Meaning the bank?

0
💬 0

4102.512 - 4107.276 Host

The bank. We could no longer do any more collections on it because in our local level.

0
💬 0

4108.336 - 4110.078 Host

Thank you, ma'am. Thanks.

0
💬 0

4110.711 - 4117.215 Host

Did the law enforcement take that check from him? No, the check is given to the bank.

0
💬 0

4117.235 - 4122.298 Host

Okay, but I mean, did law enforcement get a copy of that check?

0
💬 0

4122.318 - 4123.658 Host

We do have access to it.

0
💬 0

4123.898 - 4128.141 Host

Well, then that's when they have access to it. Did they come by and request a copy of the check?

0
💬 0

4129.239 - 4133.902 Host

I cannot determine at this particular time if they requested it at that time or not.

0
💬 0

4134.382 - 4145.409 Host

Okay. You don't know that fact, all right. And did you have any video of the man in the back who sucked your child up or anything like that?

0
💬 0

4145.449 - 4148.051 Host

Because it's a loan by mail, they never enter our office.

0
💬 0

4148.731 - 4151.773 Host

So nobody came down to the back to your personal office, right?

0
💬 0

4152.253 - 4153.674 Host

That is absolutely correct.

0
💬 0

4153.694 - 4159.878 Host

Do you help the law enforcement after it took a copy of the check to do any kind of handwriting analysis?

0
💬 0

4160.618 - 4161.979 Host

That's beyond my knowledge.

0
💬 0

4162.799 - 4163.08 Host

Thank you.

0
💬 0

4163.44 - 4167.582 Host

All right, did he redirect? No, Your Honor, as you can see. Can you please enter?

0
💬 0

4168.023 - 4169.083 Host

I'm Vanessa Townsend.

0
💬 0

4169.764 - 4170.964 Host

And do you know what Jeremy tells you?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4171.565 - 4172.465 Host

How do you know?

0
💬 0

4173.006 - 4173.786 Host

He's my husband.

0
💬 0

4174.386 - 4175.147 Host

When did you get married?

0
💬 0

4176.228 - 4176.548 Host

April 12, 2008.

0
💬 0

4177.688 - 4179.63 Host

And you have children together?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4180.35 - 4181.171 Host

How many?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4188.239 - 4189.58 Host

In 2016, where were you working?

0
💬 0

4190.081 - 4191.082 Host

Pine Ridge Elementary.

0
💬 0

4191.722 - 4193.584 Host

And what was your position there?

0
💬 0

4193.844 - 4194.324 Host

A teacher.

0
💬 0

4194.885 - 4206.514 Host

Did you work there the whole school year of 2015, 2016? Correct. And in 2016, while you were at work, did you receive an unexpected delivery?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4212.139 - 4217.363 Host

Sidebar, please. Please proceed. Did you receive an unexpected delivery?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4218.384 - 4219.424 Host

And what was that delivery?

0
💬 0

4219.985 - 4220.365 Host

Flowers.

0
💬 0

4221.406 - 4223.007 Host

And those flowers come with a car?

0
💬 0

4223.287 - 4223.627 Host

They did.

0
💬 0

4224.088 - 4229.231 Host

Your Honor, may I approach? Yes, sir. Showing what fence was previously marked as a specific tee.

0
💬 0

4229.291 - 4234.415 Host

Judge, we have filed a motion with respect to this. Please approach.

0
💬 0

4237.006 - 4268.667 Host

I'm going to go ahead and ask that you cut along the top here and just take a look at the card that is inside. It is. It is. I did. All right.

0
💬 0

4268.767 - 4273.15 Host

Objection is overruled. State's T will be entered in the evidence of state's number 30.

0
💬 0

4273.23 - 4278.554 Host

The car that came with those flowers, did that include a message?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4280.215 - 4283.277 Host

And then you go ahead and read that message to the jury.

0
💬 0

4283.997 - 4284.918 Host

That's okay.

0
💬 0

4287.014 - 4288.675 Host

Ms. Dow says it's a difficult day for you.

0
💬 0

4289.096 - 4300.225 Host

It is. It says roses are red, violets are blue, my wife is a whore, your husband is too. Sorry about this. Check your Facebook message. We need to talk. Mike.

0
💬 0

4300.765 - 4310.152 Host

Now, up until this point, have you ever had any interactions with this particular Mike or a Michael Shaver?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4311.801 - 4335.026 Host

Up until this point, had you noticed any messages from a Facebook profile identified as Michael Shaver prior to receiving those flowers? No. Up until this point, did you have any knowledge or that your husband was potentially having an affair?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4337.705 - 4341.347 Host

When did you receive that card and those flowers?

0
💬 0

4342.748 - 4344.909 Host

In April, April 11th, 2016.

0
💬 0

4345.49 - 4362.259 Host

And the time frame leading up to you receiving those flowers, was there ever any time that your husband was sleeping anywhere other than the home, which would have given you concerns that he was having some sort of actuarial affair?

0
💬 0

4362.579 - 4363.3 Host

Sleeping elsewhere?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4364.42 - 4366.502 Host

So you always came home at night, he was always around?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4368.01 - 4374.357 Host

After you received that card, did you in fact go, well, did you have a Facebook profile at that point?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4375.778 - 4398.101 Host

And after receiving that card and that message, did you go onto your Facebook profile and realize that there had been, you know, a friend request or some sort of messages from Michael Shamer's Facebook account? I did. And once you saw that request had come in and those messages had come in, what did you do specifically as it relates to FaceTime?

0
💬 0

4400.002 - 4403.865 Host

I contacted the person back.

0
💬 0

4404.485 - 4407.547 Host

Did you accept this friend request to be able to look at these messages?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4409.007 - 4422.54 Host

And did you go through the messages that had been sent to you up until the point that you had received those files? Yes. I'm going to go ahead and show defense. States exhibit EE.

0
💬 0

4424.401 - 4427.682 Host

Who can escape? All right, sidebar.

0
💬 0

4427.702 - 4428.162 Host

Come on up.

0
💬 0

4428.382 - 4436.345 Host

I'm showing you states EE.

0
💬 0

4443.663 - 4445.084 Host

Do you recognize that thumb drive?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4445.865 - 4447.165 Host

What does that thumb drive contain?

0
💬 0

4447.726 - 4450.588 Host

The messages from the Facebook account.

0
💬 0

4451.408 - 4465.818 Host

And did that contain all the messages that you received from Michael Shaver's Facebook account, including any screenshots, screenshots of text messages, these Facebook messages we're referring to here, along with photographs that may have been sent to you?

0
💬 0

4466.559 - 4467.5 Host

Yes, to my knowledge.

0
💬 0

4467.72 - 4472.143 Host

And how do you recognize that that is what is contained on that thumb drive?

0
💬 0

4473.101 - 4474.322 Host

I dated and initialed it.

0
💬 0

4475.282 - 4482.987 Host

And you reviewed that information before doing so? Correct. Your Honor, at this time, the statement states EE into evidence at, I believe, number 31.

0
💬 0

4484.627 - 4489.39 Host

Yes, sir. Objection is overruled. States EE will be admitted into evidence at states number 31.

0
💬 0

4489.43 - 4499.496 Host

Now, I want to start with the actual Facebook messages you received from Michael Shaver's account. Showing defense states FF.

0
💬 0

4500.256 - 4503.73 Host

Judge said objection. Yes, sir.

0
💬 0

4504.49 - 4507.272 Host

Mr. Price, the objection is overruled.

0
💬 0

4507.812 - 4514.095 Host

Showing you with the previous report, the six documents. What are those documents?

0
💬 0

4516.617 - 4519.578 Host

The messages I received through Facebook account.

0
💬 0

4530.925 - 4531.245 Host

Correct.

0
💬 0

4532.66 - 4544.53 Host

And those are actually also contained on the thumb drive that we just talked about, this is a pretty valid version of that. Right. Bureau, at this time, states FF into evidence as states exhibit number 32.

0
💬 0

4545.01 - 4549.354 Host

Over defense objection, states FF will be admitted into evidence.

0
💬 0

4550.194 - 4563.718 Host

Now, I'm going to go ahead and start publishing some of these, looking at the blue numbers on top, page 2447. Is that where the first message that you would ever see from the Michael Shamer Facebook?

0
💬 0

4564.238 - 4564.818 Host

That's correct.

0
💬 0

4565.878 - 4570.76 Host

And first of all, what was the date of that message?

0
💬 0

4570.82 - 4572.06 Host

February 25th, 2016.

0
💬 0

4573.08 - 4575.081 Host

And what was the content of that message?

0
💬 0

4576.451 - 4588.88 Host

Hello, Vanessa. I know you don't know me, but I keep sending you a friend request because I really need to talk with you about something important. I am not a creep. I promise. I'm looking to confirm some information concerning my wife.

0
💬 0

4589.281 - 4611.348 Host

Now, moving on into page 2446. Are there messages in 2447? We will start on page 2447. Did you receive any sort of follow-up message there on April 5th of 2007? The message there for April 5th, what is that statement?

0
💬 0

4611.888 - 4620.494 Host

So April 5th, 2016, it says, I don't think you are seeing my messages. I just sent you something. Hope you contact me when you receive.

0
💬 0

4621.909 - 4629.611 Host

And moving on to the seeing page, is there a message then from April 9, 2016? April 9, 2016, please contact me at 352-801-0941.

0
💬 0

4629.651 - 4633.432 Host

And what is the next message that you receive after getting that phone call? April 11, 2016.

0
💬 0

4643.802 - 4645.162 Host

And what is that message?

0
💬 0

4645.362 - 4652.184 Host

I received multiple. It says, your special delivery is to arrive today. Hope to finally hear back from you.

0
💬 0

4652.504 - 4657.945 Host

The special delivery message, was that close in time to when you received the flowers?

0
💬 0

4658.885 - 4659.225 Host

That is.

0
💬 0

4660.005 - 4660.846 Host

Is that that same day?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4662.526 - 4671.528 Host

After you accepted the friend request, did you start communicating with this Facebook profile identified as Michael Schaefer?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4674.032 - 4683.716 Host

And in the course of that, did you receive any sort of screenshots of text messages between your husband and Lori Shafer?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4684.316 - 4690.339 Host

Did you also receive photographs that showed your husband with Ms. Shafer?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4691.359 - 4698.582 Host

The phone number that was placed in that Facebook record, did you reach out and contact that individual?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4699.903 - 4700.823 Host

And how did you do so?

0
💬 0

4701.664 - 4702.444 Host

I tried to call it.

0
💬 0

4703.097 - 4704.538 Host

Did that person ever answer the phone?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4705.179 - 4707.241 Host

So after asking you to call, they never picked up?

0
💬 0

4707.461 - 4708.762 Host

Correct. They texted me back.

0
💬 0

4709.783 - 4715.168 Host

And were you ever able to talk on the phone with the person that had given you that phone number?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4715.768 - 4723.935 Host

I'm sure I do. It's been previously been marked as state's exhibit GG. Do you recognize the state?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4725.717 - 4727.198 Host

And what is state's GG?

0
💬 0

4728.119 - 4728.819 Host

Text message.

0
💬 0

4729.645 - 4735.513 Host

And is that the text message that you reached out or received back from that phone number you just stated?

0
💬 0

4735.813 - 4737.035 Host

That's the one I received back.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4744.4 - 4748.141 Host

33. Objection is overruled.

0
💬 0

4748.761 - 4756.624 Host

Now, also during the period of time that this was going on, did you obtain Lori Shaver's phone number?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4757.624 - 4760.665 Host

Did you reach out and send a text to that number?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

4761.725 - 4764.446 Host

Did you correspond with Ms. Shaver through that phone?

0
💬 0

4765.712 - 4767.954 Host

I texted, but I never received a message back.

0
💬 0

4768.414 - 4781.045 Host

I am showing what's previously been marked for identification as States 4RR. How did you get Lori Shaver's phone number? Was it included in the screenshots on the text messages that you received?

0
💬 0

4781.646 - 4786.99 Host

I don't remember if it was text message or Facebook, but it was given to me through one of those two.

0
💬 0

4787.01 - 4791.314 Host

I'm showing you what's been previously been marked for identification as States 4RR.

0
💬 0

4793.195 - 4793.856 Host

Yes, I do.

0
💬 0

4795.117 - 4805.961 Host

And is that a screenshot of text that you sent to Lori Shaver's phone? That's correct. You're right. This time the statement seeks RRR into evidence of states number 34. Any objection?

0
💬 0

4806.181 - 4812.363 Host

All right. Over defense's objection, states RRR will be admitted into evidence of states number 34.

0
💬 0

4814.824 - 4827.156 Host

During the time frame that you were corresponding with... The individual utilizing the Michael Shaver Facebook account, did they encourage you to get a divorce?

0
💬 0

4827.376 - 4827.976 Host

Yes, they did.

0
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4827.996 - 4832.259 Host

Did they make any offers to you in relation to that?

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4833.24 - 4834.261 Host

I don't know what you mean, offers.

0
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4834.341 - 4838.824 Host

I'm sorry. Did they bring out matters of a divorce attorney?

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4839.365 - 4840.886 Host

Yes, they did. They recommended one.

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4842.423 - 4849.146 Host

Now, ultimately, when you got this information, did you confront your husband about it?

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0
💬 0

4850.567 - 4857.35 Host

At that time, did you both decide to stay together, married, and in the relationship?

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4857.79 - 4858.15 Host

We did.

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4858.77 - 4862.112 Host

When did that process and that period of time begin?

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4862.332 - 4863.572 Host

For the end of April, May.

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4866.073 - 4882.298 Host

And after that period of time, was there ever instances where Mr. Townsend left and found an unknown without the police to say that you weren't aware of her in that time frame? No. No further questions at this time? All right, Mr. Wicks? I don't have any questions. Thank you, Judge.

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