Van Lathan
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Nobody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
One other thing with them, they keep, Beal keeps being mentioned in trades as if anyone's trading for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I have Wemby sixth, Davis seventh, Mitchell eighth, Brunson nine, Edwards 10, Curry 11.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
That was our bench. The league is way better now. Number 10, the Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah, I don't want that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think Notre Dame probably has a lot of bulletin board material. People are on Ohio State like crazy. They have a ridiculously talented roster and they're peaking at the right time, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
However, I, despite all of the animus between LSU fans and Notre Dame fans online, I am not ready to say that Freeman and his staff up there in South Bend are not going to find a way to make this game competitive and not have a chance to win this game in the fourth quarter. I think that they will.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So I think what happened with me with Notre Dame was the last game, I think there were a lot of questions answered. Now, we could talk about Penn State and some of the limitations that Penn State has, particularly the explosiveness that they lack in their downfield passing game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But a lot of things that people, a lot of questions, should I say, that people were asking about Notre Dame in the game, which was... If they ever got behind, right, could they play from behind? Did the offense have enough wrinkles? Did they have dynamic enough talent on that side of the ball to get them back into a game where they couldn't play complimentary football, defense?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We're down 14. The game is now over. But they got down 10. They got down 10 and Riley Leonard was even knocked out of the game, which honestly I think kind of worked in Notre Dame's favor a little bit because they weren't really preparing for the backup quarterback to come in there and complete a couple of passes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And they played from behind and they made enough plays in the passing game in that game against a quality quarterback. Not quite as good as Ohio State defense, maybe not, but it's not too, it's pretty comparable. A quality Penn State defense. They made enough plays in the passing game to go win the game. They are facing an uphill battle, but for some reason, I think the game will be competitive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So I think the dynamic is, it depends on which version of college football that you believe in. So if you believe the traditional college football sort of way of doing things that I was brought up on, and I'm sure Joel's brought up on too, which was the most deserving team won the national championship after a full body of work. was examined, then Ohio State's not there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But what I think they were trying to move to by expanding the playoff was to see if they could get to a situation where the best team wins the national championship. And that's on the field. And that means that if you slip up a couple of Saturdays, right, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It doesn't matter because if you have the best roster and you're playing the best at the right time, then you get a chance to prove it on the field.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Now it's not. It's the worst loss that I can remember in that rivalry, but let's not even talk about Ohio State. Let's talk about Notre Dame, that loss at home to Northern Illinois. Right. Right? So that is a disqualifying loss. in most iterations of the old way of doing college football. It is not in this particular day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Or it'll be like when a 9-17 beat an undefeated New England Patriots team. I was trying to be nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I blocked that out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There's a cultural question in Columbus right now, too, with my Ohio State fans. And the question is, it sounds stupid to people who don't understand college football and don't understand the rivalry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But it's a question that's very much on the minds of people up there. And the question is, would you rather beat Michigan or would you rather win a national championship? Now, the answer seems obvious. There's no Ohio State fan right now on the precipice of winning a national championship that's going to say, oh, man, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, this doesn't matter as much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But then, the day after The Michigan loss, the week after the Michigan loss, like when they were talking about Ryan Day, the way that they were talking about Ryan Day, they would have, they'd be lying to you if they'd have told you right now that that wasn't a soul crushing moment, that not even a national championship could completely repair and heal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
He's lost to Michigan four times in a row. Bill, are you familiar with the Bayou Classic? I brought this up on Rosillo's podcast. Shout out to Riggs. But the Bayou Classic... At Southern University, rest in peace, Dad, like, they would rather beat Grambling than win the SWAT. That's a no-brainer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like, it's a one-game Super Bowl that means everything from some people that are traveling from up north in Louisiana down to New Orleans, us making a shorter drive, and it's all on the line right there. And that's just the way college football is. And if you ever get to a point... where Ohio State fans will care even a centella less about beating Michigan, you've lost the whole sport.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I'm just saying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Oh, my God. Are you fucking with me right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So this is bullshit. So it is because LSU was down in the 90s. That's for sure. LSU won the SEC a couple of times in the 80s, which was a hell of a time to win the SEC. The program was pretty good. It was very important. We had a Heisman Trophy winner, all of that stuff. You're talking about Billy Cannon? Yeah, I'm talking about Billy Cannon in 1958 at Mattis, right? We all talk about 58.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Y'all count all them titles from back in the segregated days in Boston, not in the NBA. But what I'm saying is LSU, when we came into college football, was down in the 90s. And the reason why the program was down, I'm not about to do a whole LSU defense, is because a lot of the best players from Louisiana were escaping. Warwick Dunn didn't go to LSU. Cordell Stewart didn't go to LSU.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Some of these people. What happened was Nick Saban was able to reorient. And Jerry DiNardo, to a degree, was able to reorient the position of LSU in Louisiana where we could keep some of the talent back at home. And when that started, we became a perennial power.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Oh, come on. I didn't realize Billy Cannon. I forgot about Billy Cannon. Billy Cannon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
No, what happened was they hired a guy. And this is a cautionary tale for any college program. They hired a guy named Curly Hallman. For most programs, and by the way, we're talking about Bama. It's so interesting that people go, LSU is not Bama. Bama was down for 10 years too. Bama was down, super down. We were kicking Bama's ass every single year until Saban comes to Bama.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The first year Saban was at Bama, Bama loses to UL Monroe. So what I'm saying is any program out there, right, you look at when Bobby Bowden leaves Florida State, what Florida State has to go through until Jimbo Fisher gets there. You look at Texas and Mack Brown. Texas is just getting back. It doesn't matter what color your blood is in college football, if it's blue, if it's red, whatever it is,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You are one bad coaching hire. One bad coaching hire. When we were coming up, Nebraska was an unquestionable blue blood, right? Tommy Frazier, Lawrence Phillips, all of these guys haven't been nationally relevant since. Colorado, you're one bad hire. One bad hire. Two maybe at the most from being in a situation you don't want to be in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We weren't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's not about good, solid program. It's a good, solid program. But what I'm saying is that if you are a program and you represent a culture where football is very important, like it is in Louisiana, it's like live or die in Louisiana. It is whether it's LSU, Southern high school, whatever. you're actually one coaching hire away from being able to harness the power of your state.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
LSU was not in the same conversation with Notre Dame, USC, or historically, and probably still isn't. But I will say, since 2000, you have three national championships. You've played for a fourth national championship. Nobody wants to hear your credentials. You won the SEC. You've had an undefeated senior team. You've had two Heisman Trophy winners. Are you happy with your program? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Are you happy? You sound like a fucking booster. It's like having Buddy Garrity here talking about, am I happy with LSU right now? No, I think we should be doing better. But to me, trajectory matters. And the entire context of where you are matters. And Coach O, who was a great coach in terms of what he was able to get on the field. What a character.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. In terms of, when I say he was a great coach, this is what I mean. If you put together the team that we had in 19 together, you got to at least have the potential to be a great coach, right? And so he wasn't a great long-term guy because he likes to fuck boosters' wives. Allegedly. Whatever. So he wasn't a good long-term guy, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And he left the program in shambles. For what we needed for the time that we had him, he was good. He took what Les Miles couldn't do, undefeated season, all of that stuff. Now, LSU is getting back to the point to where people in South Louisiana are looking for real results from Brian Kelly. And we'll see in the next couple of years if he can deliver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And then what happens to the SEC? What are you talking about? We would have been Alabama. Would you have? Would you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Oh, no, I got actually I was confused. You're saying he went to. So if Nick Saban, what I meant to say is Saban picked Culpepper over Drew Brees because Drew had to search shoulder. What I was saying is I got a little turned around. I was saying is if Saban never leaves LSU, we'd have been Bama. We wouldn't have been Bama with Les Miles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So you're saying if he stays in Miami and he has a lot of success there, then he never comes back. What happens? I mean, look, yeah, for sure. I mean, that's the way things happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
All I'm saying is this. Whatever I've spent my life watching LSU football, I can tell you this. With the talent that is inside of Louisiana, when you look at the guys that we got out there, and y'all can say whatever y'all want to say, right, about LSU, about whatever. People can say whatever. Man, Jamar Chase. Jefferson. Jefferson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
When you look at the talent in the NFL, I'm not talking about guys that just came through. I mean, BTJ. Neighbors and Thomas. I'm talking about guys that are from... Our receiver factory, like Derek Stingley. When you talk about guys that are from our state, if we can recruit our state, we'll be competitive with anyone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You're just seeing now the opportunity for people to get in people's ears and promise things that they can't then deliver on. And the college athlete who is now in a brand new world that's kind of like the wild, wild west with not a lot of protections or structures there to protect them or their family,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It was one of my favorite TV moments in a while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Taking a flyer on him. Could he be like Tyler Algier? What you do know is he has an incredible skill set. He can do a lot of different things on the football field. He might not have all the measurables. I'm sure he'll run like 4'6". 4'6"? Yeah, but he is a football player. He's so competitive. Who's been good since he was probably, what, seven years old? He's always found a way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah, I'm in on that, too. The tape always matters more to me than the measurables. Your tape always matters more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah, but I mean, it was tough yards, but every yard that he got, he had to take it from the defense. So he just, he proved to me what a good back he was by his performance in that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I mean, if he does get drafted high, I mean, a lot of people say, but my thing is this, if you guys, if Will Anderson, Will Anderson, Will Campbell, Homer pick, Will Campbell is still on the board. When you guys are drafting, you guys should take the left tackle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Right. I mean, look, I don't know what the feasibility is of him playing too much going both ways in the NFL from a wear and tear situation. Travis has been injured before. So I don't know what the feasibility is of it. I know if I was him, I would want to play the receiver. If I was him, just for the money. However... It is more money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're going to want him... It's like $30 million a year at least. Yeah. They're probably going to want him to play DB. But if I was him, I would want to find my way to... It's so much fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's the most – it's one of the most embarrassing and shocking college football losses I've seen. Really, maybe, maybe since Michigan lost to Appalachian State – a couple of decades before. You know what I mean? I struggle to explain how that game happened in the way that it did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
With the stakes for Ohio State. With everything that was on the line for Ohio State in terms of what they were playing for structurally in terms of a college football game. but also culturally. Like the fact that they have been getting their asses kicked and Harbaugh was there and this was the time for them to actually win that game 31 to 10. They couldn't fucking do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And not only that, they got fucking manhandled and got their goddamn manhood taken by their arch rivals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I mean, like, they did it on your home field, bro. I'll be honest with you, though. I think that loss catapulted them into a national championship run. It made them mad. They got pissed off. They got embarrassed. They just have not played anywhere nearly like the same team since.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The unbeatable behemoth that we were told Ohio State was going to be this year, they've played that way subsequently to that loss. So that says a lot about their staff and really a lot about their players and their program, to be honest with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You know what? You guys, I'm getting so sick of this conversation, this bleeding heart liberal bullshit that I'm listening to. You guys are talking like it's 2018. Right. I forgot, it's Trump's America now. The unwokenness happens. Yeah. Scramble their brains. Okay? If I see you out there wearing one of those soft helmets, I'm going to start trolling you and your family. Scramble their brains.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's over. We don't have to care anymore. We don't have to care about nothing. The great unwokening? The great unwokening has happened. We don't have to care about nothing. Put Tua right back in the game right now. Put him right back in. I don't care. It's over. I don't have to care no more. No more marches. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Number 23, Philadelphia. They're 15 and 24. That's really awful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Embiid. This is the big thing. 13 games, 389 minutes this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
We want a different way for you to pack it in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Guys, I need to stick around. We have a time machine trade to discuss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
So when I see that, I'm like, this guy's going to retire because he's just over this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Maybe there's truth in both sides.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
A sprinkling of Goodwin?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Oh my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Yeah, right. Just hoping.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Not really.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Okay, give us your worries. Give us your concerns. Because I'm zagging. Oh, you're zagging. Let me hear the zag before I give my concerns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.
Be happy for him. Six-time Super Bowl champion Bill Belichick getting it put on his ass. He's going to have a TikTok.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Remember, Allen Iverson goes out there and has one of the worst performances in the three-point contest that we've ever seen. He laughs about it. He goes, maybe I should have practiced a little bit more. Now with what you're going to take on Twitter and how these guys are looked at, nobody wants to be that guy. That's AI.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That's one of the greatest ever who went out there and wasn't a three-point shooter and ended up with 10 and laughed. He laughed about it. So I just think they take themselves a little bit too seriously. We take ourselves as fans a little bit too seriously as well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Can I ask you this? Is it possible that the basketball nerds have a hand in having ruined the All-Star game as well?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You and I talk a lot about the differing style of basketball that we like. I like seeing a motherfucker get dunked on. I don't not like that. I get it. I think the league misses a Blake Griffin. I think the league misses a DeAndre Jordan at his height. I think the league misses some good old power basketball to get people up out of their seats. You know what I mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I think the fact that we don't have as much of that anymore... doesn't really translate to the all-star game being good. Because what the all-star game then looks like is a regular season NBA game where they're shooting so many threes. But when you have the best players on earth all on the same court, you kind of don't want to see them do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
What you want to see them do is kind of dominate each other. You want to see them get into each other. You want to see all the different styles of basketball that they play clash. The old All-Star game was fun because it would be in a situation where you had the best players and everybody would have their little one-on-one thing. It would be like, okay, this guy's going to go against this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Then KG is going to go against Tim Duncan. Then Karl Malone is going to go against Charles Barkley. You're going to get all of that stuff. But that's not how they play the game anymore anyway. So you're really not going to get that in an all-star game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So that game is the Sunday game or the Saturday?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So I like it. So here's the deal. You still have the rising stars game. Do you have the Rising Stars game? I don't have the Rising Stars game anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
What happens when you get a vet in the consolation against the rising stars game who doesn't want to be there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Let's go. Okay, so the Lakers are the 5C this year, right? Yeah, so they make it. But in the past, you might be looking at a situation where you had a team with LeBron who was in the playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I'm watching it too. Um, in your, uh, revamped all-star game is Victor Wimby. I'm in women. He's playing on Saturday in this one, but it's like, guess what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, it would also lead to something that I think the all-star weekend needs is stakes and hierarchy. Because if you're a top five type of guy, right, and you're playing in that game, not only are you an all-star, but you're almost like a more all-star-y all-star. Because you're playing on a team that's competitive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Those guys are playing harder because they're incentivized.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I get it. So these are the only two things that are going to stop the... the idea from Really Shining. Number one is the NBA is going to want to promote guys like Wimby, whether he's on a winning team or not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. And number two, I guarantee you, you get pushback from a surly vet, from a Steph, from a guy like that who happens to play on the team that's not contending right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Your team wins, you get 250K. So that's your carrot. And then your stick is you can't play in the game next year. You would really be that draconian about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So you 7 o'clock Eastern, right? 7 o'clock Eastern. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
How important to the NBA is All-Star Weekend in your estimation?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Spring training. Spring training's coming back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's particularly bad this year where everyone was talking about the death of the NBA, the whole ratings discussion, the conversation over the product on the court. It was particularly bad this year for them to have a dud of an all-star weekend. They needed to have a good all-star weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, but that's part of it, right? That's part of the criticism. Part of the criticism is about guys like Draymond who are in those positions, who criticize the product of the league. You hear a lot of people talking about the inside NBA guys and all of that. I don't know how real that is. I do know that I personally enjoy not being babied.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I want to hear what people that are that invested into basketball culture actually think about basketball. So it doesn't bother me. I can't see how Draymond shitting on that idea to have the younger guys on Sunday night, how that puts a preconceived notion in people's mind that those guys shouldn't be there on Sunday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
What about something that our friend Charlamagne Tha God said?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That the game is just suffering from it being too close to the Super Bowl, it being too close to so many other gigantic... I was at the Super Bowl in New Orleans that there is no possible way that I was going to be able to make myself get up and go to an all-star game with all those. Right, four days later. Four days later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But what about the idea that as the NFL season kind of stretches out a little bit, that they have to figure out a way to kind of move their game away from the Super Bowl a little bit, or else it's in the halo and the glow of the Super Bowl and the Grammys and the Oscars.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, when you look at the things that they try to do, To me, it always looks like they're trying to appease the players, which I get. Yeah, they're a league that is run essentially by their players. The players have a lot of power in the NBA. They're the face of the league. The league pushes them in a way that a lot of other leagues don't push their players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But it seems as if they're afraid to make the players step out of their comfort zones because. At this point, forget about everything else in the All-Star game. Forget about the game. Forget about all that stuff. If we just hone in on the dunk contest. The dunk contest used to be such an electric event. Like, even more so than the game for me. Such an electric event.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But even if you get... This is another thing. if there's a decade span and you get three good dunk contest events.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
One out of every three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Like we can actually. That's a win for you. Okay. That's a win. Like the years that Nate Robinson won, they weren't spectacular, but people, they were memorable. And then if you get something that you can actually, they were, I mean, cause he.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, but he was some kind of different type of freakish situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Like, how tall do we go? But Wimby wasn't going to be able to get to the point. Dwight was still short enough to where he could take flight. Remember the Superman dunk? He threw the ball in there. It was crazy. It was nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But I mean, in a lot of dunk contests, people jump. Is a human a prop? Could you not jump over a person?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So what I'm saying is something as, and look, there's even cultural conversations around the dunk contest. Like I can watch on Instagram right now like Jordan Klingon and One Foot God and the rest of these dudes that I watch on the internet dunk and do dunks that are so fucking filthy. Bring them on Saturday. Now, that's an interesting thing to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. Yeah, the hockey got me. It was a great watch. It was very intense competition on Saturday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
What's the difference between them and Mack McClellan? He doesn't fucking play. I know, but my thing is I would make the NBA guys dunk against them. I would say, hey, the NBA guys, if you want to, there's guys out there and all they're doing is dunking. All these guys are doing is dunking. They're just dunking, right? But there's a guy, he's like a seventh grade teacher or something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He's like a DJ Clark or something. I think for his name. All they do is dunk. I would make, I would have a dunk contest with those guys. and then make the NBA guys dunk against them. Because when the white boy, Jordan Klingon, or whatever his name is, gets out there and starts shining on Saturday night, they're not going to want to be embarrassed. I will put some stakes on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The three fights got me. I missed the first two fights.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
She's the biggest under 30 star in either sport. In basketball, I think that's kind of an Obama era idea. I don't think people are going to be down for that now. That's going to start a real, real, real, real dialogue.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So as much as we're talking about it, is it just over? I don't think it's over. I think there's real fixes. Is it just over? Because if it wasn't over, this is like, it's kind of like the married couple that goes to... They're in counseling for 20 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. And then I turned it on for the third fight. But then I watched two... groups of players playing at the highest level who absolutely wanted to embarrass each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And now they're trying BDSM. You know what I mean? To kind of figure out their relationship when really what they need is to go out and be back on the market. So you think the all-star weekend's at BDSM stage? I think some of this stuff is really getting into having key parties.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They're playing for something now. So I get what you're saying. We know it's there. You got to pull it out. I know. Well, wow. They're playing for something in that. Yeah. I don't mind your idea. I don't mind your idea because it would be interesting for me. This is the thing. A lot of these things that we're talking about, they make the game interesting for me. And that's important for you. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That's important.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Got to be money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, they kind of, they wanted to get out there and play. I mean, look, think about it, man. If you win $250,000, I mean, that's one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
One night at Onyx for James Harden. I mean, that's a Tuesday at Onyx for Harden. That's great. It's a big win for him. So look, I remember... Baseball, in the past, I remember them, if I'm correct, they went to doing home field advantage for the All-Star game for a while. They stopped that for a while, though, didn't they?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No one cared. No one cared. No one cared in terms of outside of the world of hockey, but they cared.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
There'll always be one. There's just not enough room on the mountaintop for everyone. There'll always be one. The moment that rap beef's in, there's no more hip hop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Fundamentally, you have to have it. Fundamentally, you have to have, like, I hope everybody's paying attention right now to like what Kanye West is doing. Kanye West, like, made it like he had all of these philosophical reasons for hating Drake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
uh during that whole time back in the day when me and kanye were you know uh going back and forth or whatever when we went back to the teams he actually emailed kanye and then he emailed me back and he went through this whole rant and in the middle of the rant he just mentioned drake for no reason this is 2018 he's missing drake for no reason it's like because the radio was playing drink drank ain't talking about nothing i was like this guy must really not like drake but really the reality of it was that the only reason why he had a problem with drake is because drake was on top
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Because Drake was threatening him. And now you see Kanye.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. Kanye's sniffing around a little bit. And he's acting like he wants it with Kendrick now. So there's always going to be that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But there's always going to be this competitive thing in hip hop, just like there is in sports to where some guys are going to want to take with some other guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They were despondent. When they... I learned some stuff. Now, what is it called now? When a power play happens, okay? The power play... And then after the power, when they... When they become even sides. When they become even sides, what is that called? Killing the penalty? They've killed the penalty successfully. They've successfully killed the penalty. Yeah. I heard this term.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, the problem with that is that you're never going to the rap beef you don't have as much control over, right? Because somebody can decide that they're going to diss you for any reason. And once they do, you almost got to say something. Well, if you're on equal footing. If you're on equal footing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Sometimes if you're not on equal footing, sometimes you can let it slide. Some guys don't choose to let it slide. With this one, it's particularly interesting because I'm starting to think that this rap beef is going to do irreparable harm to hip hop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
This is tearing rap apart. Like, it's one thing to... If you have... If you take any of the other beats, right? If you take Jay-Z and Nas, if you take Big and Pac, if you take... Well, Big and Pac both died. Yeah, but not because of no rap beat. That was over some time. No, but... Yeah. But it is... Tied together somehow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, it was like just messing around, but that was really over some other shit. Y'all can go to VladTV.com if y'all want to... He got the whole scoop over there. Vlad got the whole scoop. But... this has become such a flag planting by each side that the seriousness of the allegations, and there's always been serious allegations and like, you know, some hyperbole and all of this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But right now it like says something about you. If you're a Drake fan, it says something about you. If you're a Kendrick fan and it's like, it's this weird hip hop version of the Democrats and the Republicans and the division that we see politically and culturally, like in America, like in music is, And that just means that everybody can't party together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And you have Kendrick who's actually saying it's time to let the party die. And then you got the girls that's going, well, we still want to shake our asses. Is it okay if we shake our ass? And then we don't really know if it's okay. Is it okay if we don't care about some of the social causes and issues that Kendrick cares about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And I personally don't, I think you should care, but there's always been a part of hip hop that was just about the fun. This is casting people in such distinct roles, and it's so vicious. Maybe I'm getting older. I could be getting older.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But this one is so particularly vicious with the fans going at it and really trying to sabotage each other that it feels like it's time for everybody to take their foot off the gas a little bit. Just relax.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Particularly this post-Elon, every... no-holds-barred version of Twitter and social media.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. And so, like, right now, it's getting to the point to where, okay, so... Drake dropped. It came out. It was very successful for them. Wasn't my favorite music in the world. The one Friday, the one that just came out, sexy songs for you, Drake and P and D. Um, wasn't my favorite music in the world. However, you could listen to that and tell that somebody going to like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And it doesn't mean that you have, it doesn't make you a bad person or, uh, it doesn't make you an asshole. If you like Drake and it doesn't make you righteous, uh, If you like Kendrick, like they're they're both two entertainers that that represent and do different things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
When they've successfully killed the penalty, the excitement from the crowd, because they didn't give up any goals during the power play. I was on edge the whole time. I'm watching the power play tick down and I'm like, oh my God, are we going to score? You're getting roped in. I can feel it. I got roped in. It's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And while I probably gravitate a little bit more towards the not don't probably gravitate a little bit more towards what Kendrick does. Yeah, I think he's a very important, very important artist with really something to say and really represent something. I like a lot of Drake records. And I've always liked Drake. And I've always liked listening to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So I just think it's being taken a little too far now. A little too far now. Taking a foot off the gas a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I'll be honest with you. Drake was beaten in this as decisively as I've seen any rapper ever beaten in any movie. Was it like a Foreman Frazier thing? Wasn't a Foreman Frazier because that joint was two rounds. But I would say it was... Pacquiao Marquez 4? See, it's not Mayweather Gotti because Mayweather Gotti was... Ali Cleveland Williams? Oh, hell no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
If you guys ever want to see a killing machine, go watch Ali versus Cleveland Williams. No, you know what it could be? It could be a Hagler-Hearns. I'll tell you why. So it's a short fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Longer than three rounds. Yeah. A short fight. With a lot of action. With a lot of action. However, at the end of it, Hagler brutalized Tom.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. Hagler brutalized. At the end of it, it was clear. They both went crazy, but it was clear, very clear and decisive who the tougher motherfucker that guy was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I thought, oh, well, yeah, Brockston, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Half hour from Boston. 35 minutes. Brockston. So is that Boston?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, that's why I was so mad. Cause he grew up black in Boston. So he had to, he had to beat. Why did I open myself up to that? Why did I do that? That's why he was so pissed off. That's why he was beating people up like that. That's why he had to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Sugar Ray won the fight. He won the fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He eked it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
This is going to sound so crazy and people wonder about these obsessions I've had. I've watched two different broadcasts of the fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And then I've watched the fight with the sound off as well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And the announcers too. He made a couple of tactical mistakes, but I was doing all of that stuff for a podcast. But he made a couple of tactical mistakes. He came out, I think Hagler came out orthodox in his softball. He tried to box with Leonard a little bit. He made some mistakes in the fight. I do think that had there been a rematch, that Hagler would have fucking destroyed Leonard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
There was no rematch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, I mean, once again, this is Leonard at middleweight. Leonard had come up from 47. But he was smart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Anyway, but look, I get it. Drake lost the rap beef. It's over. He lost decidedly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, this might be the biggest rap beef.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's certainly the biggest rap beef of 12 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I could make an argument, and look, you'd have to get 9th Wonder, you'd have to get Sway, you'd have to get Ebro Charlemagne, all of those guys that live and breathe hip-hop. Um... I can make an argument this is the biggest rap beef ever. I can make an argument this is the biggest one ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Why would you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I get it. And I was there for that one too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I didn't think it was possible, but that's what makes it different to me. So big and pot come out. And remember, there was also some personal stuff that was going on in that beef. Oh yeah. There's some here too, but not quite as much. This seems to be different to me because it's almost more akin to Jay and Nas because this is the culmination of an entire generation of hip hop work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You have two guys that come out roughly around the same time. Drake beats Kendrick by two or three years as far as on the national scene. And then for a decade, A decade plus, they dance around each other. They poke at each other. There's disses on records. There's references on records. There's interviews. There's all of this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But these two guys, along with Cole, are recognized as the two biggest stars of their era. These are the two biggest guys in their era. And then they essentially fight or spar or battle for the kingdom of that era. They battle to decide who's music and who's more influential, who matters more. And there's so much behind it. You're talking 10 years of work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You're talking two different outlooks on hip hop. Like two completely perfect foils. Even down to the fact that one guy represents this long legacy of hip hop that comes from Southern California. from Compton. Think about all of the Compton artists. Post OJLA. All of that stuff, right? And then you have one guy who is an upstart coming from with a new style of hip hop. The grassy high zone Drake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Okay, so certain things culturally expire. Game shows. Game shows. For example, when I was growing up, Gilligan's Island and all of these shows from the 60s and the 70s were still in reruns, but they were still in reruns prominently. I still knew all of these characters. I still was aware of all of this stuff. And then one day, it just gets to a point, nobody cares about Gilligan's Island anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The grassy, all of that stuff, but still has roots in Memphis, right? It's almost like it was, and I don't want to overstate it. It wasn't just a hip hop battle. It was a
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
cultural litmus test in a way which is another reason why i think people are taking it so so seriously it was like a battle to of what the truth of hip-hop and hip-hop culture is so it was very very very high stakes and the song that won was obviously a song that accused drake of a lot of things but the one thing that accused drake of more than anything was not being a part of hip-hop
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And so it just ended up being incredibly high leverage in a way that I don't think that I thought it was going to be. So I can make an argument that like this, because of those reasons, that this is the most consequential one that I can remember.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, it was going to be difficult for, first off, fuck your bitch and the clique you claim to really, really go pop. So it was going to be difficult for that to really, really go pop. But I would say that culturally, Hit Em Up was being played in the club. Like, this is different. This is a number one record.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They weren't going to play Hit Em Up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Here comes Hit Em Up. Here comes Pac. Oh, he's got a lot of red on. But they weren't going to play that. But this one, it went everywhere. And that was also, once again, it was kind of Kendrick saying, you know, not that he hadn't had hit records. It was Kendrick saying, I can make a hit record that dances on your grave. You know him for making the people dance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I can have those same people dancing on your grave. And he did that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Drake is insanely talented. Kendrick takes himself. Kendrick is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He'll never be recreated. He makes more important music. I think the music that he makes is probably a higher difficulty. I don't want to take anything away from Drake's talent, but he's insanely talented. Kendrick, you can't make that many great hits without being talented. Dot is something that we ain't never seen. I mean, and we knew this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He's just, it's almost like he didn't want to, like he's something that we ain't never seen before. To me, to me. And a lot of people would feel that way about other artists, about Drake. Like Kendrick's ability to communicate, but also to be relatable, all of that stuff. He's just different to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He talked about the fact that he's short though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The problem is, is that you'll do that. But the reality is like, then you look thin skin. No, it's an extra thing with Kendrick. Cause Kendrick on one of these records, Kendrick says, uh, it might be on Dodger blue. He says, have you ever ran a fade? They ran three more back to back. If not, then shut the fuck up and keep it wrapped.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And that's basically, he's saying like, if you want to fight, we can fight. You know what I'm saying? If you want to fight, we can fight too. The thing is, with how psychotic we've seen that he is, you just don't know the level that he won't go to. So it's like, the best thing to do is just to rap about it. Just rap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's time to let it go. Kendrick doesn't want to... Kendrick's not letting it go. He doesn't want to make the mistake of orienting his career around training. You won. Get back to pushing the culture forward like you always have. You've done the victory lap. There's no bigger victory lap than the Super Bowl. Get back to doing the same shit you always have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Nobody cares about Three's company anymore. These shows just evaporate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Okay, two pieces of advice. First of all, Tom Hagen, not a wartime conciliar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Maybe Sonny was just a terrible player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
She was the best and I've had them all over the place. Now you get your ass out of here. He doesn't get that movie. What would I tell Drake to do? Number one, the first thing I would say is just remember that you're Drake. Yeah. Okay. Remember that you are literally the artist of the decade for the 2010s. So number one, it's going to be okay. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Take a breath, go to booby trap, chill out for a second. And also remember why people love you. They don't love you because you are the most devastating battle rapper of all time. They don't love you because of that. You already occurred out of one battle. They love you because you make hits. So come back with some fire. Chill and come back with some fire. And I'd say something else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I said this on Higher Learning and Rachel disagreed and the entire audience disagreed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
If I were Drake... if this is possible with Jay-Z running things, right? Because I know they don't have the best relationship. If I were Drake, I would do the Super Bowl next year. Interesting. Yep. If I were Drake, I know it seems like he's coming behind Kendrick, but let me tell you what, if Drake does the Super Bowl next year, let me tell you what can happen. Number one, he can do something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He can answer the Lil Wayne question. Because Lil Wayne wants to do the Super Bowl. Lil Wayne and Drake could do a whole set at the Super Bowl. Then Drake looks like, for the entire South, which...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
likes drake anyway so now this is it's almost like politics you're trying to win the south you're like now it looks like drake is the one who it looks like kendrick took the superbowl stage away from wayne and drake is the one who gave wayne his due you can do the young money thing drake could do a whole superbowl whereas kendrick did a superbowl that was very dedicated to his audience and didn't have some of the hits that he knew before drake could do a whole superbowl of just hits
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It could be just hits. If people are talking about they love hits, Drake could do such a low stakes Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
There's like there's a bunch of buffer years there. Seinfeld and Friends made it to DVD. And because they made it to DVD, like a DVD release that everybody was like, oh my God, it's coming out on DVD. And they lived a little bit long in syndication on TBS and stuff. They're these kids' version, and it sounds really, really bad, of Gilligan's Island, of these older shows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I'm talking about Nice For What, Hotline Bling, Miss Me. I'm talking about so many joints. I'm talking about all the joints. And it could be hip hop because he could have Gunna and Lil Baby out there if those guys will be on the same stage. He could have Thug out there. He could have literally a Super Bowl full of hits and pop records. And people would like it. And he could leave reasserting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But that's 11 months from now. I know. For that 11 months, you got to, I mean. You do the Will Smith? You chill. You're just gone? You chill. I mean, he already dropped the album, so he's probably going, he's on tour. Ben Simmons thinks he's dead. He's not dead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That could be true, but I don't think it's true, but that a lot of people care less than they did, but even his back catalog. Even his back catalog is enough that Drake will never be out of the public eye.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Also, I'll just say this. Drake, his, his, his support was cratering a little bit before this because Drake had, in my opinion, made some really weird moves. Like the decision to kind of support Tory Lanez and dismay the stallion where, when black women had been the ones that had been supporting Drake and, and like, even when other black men would be like, ah, Drake too soft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I like the way it was black women that held Drake down and really like him. really kept him at the superstar level. And I just remember when he made the decision to make light of Meg getting shot and to outwardly support Tory like that, a lot of women were like, what is he doing? Like, what's the deal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And so a lot of the insulation that he would have had from getting his ass lit up like he did was gone for a lot of different reasons, right? For a lot of the... He had decided for some reason before all of this started to go heal a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They want their own music. But once again, another reason why it was smart that Kendrick did it, the timing. He, he,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
drake was at kind of a little low a lower point he's still making hit records clb for all the dogs all those things still so really well and he hit him when he was down a little bit so we'll see but everybody is okay to like kendrick and drake it's okay van lathan just trying to heal america hey it's okay to put music not like us didn't listen to family matters it's okay to listen to push-ups
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And Euphoria. I listened to Non-Stop this morning when I was walking the dog. It's okay, you guys. You guys can like both guys. It's okay. It's all right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Some of the records are going to get played. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Some of the records are going to get played. It's tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
he's a lot of great huh the guy the Gaza the Gaza he's a he's a real it's tough it would have been nice like six years ago if he just like moved to Australia and just started raising cattle yeah just moved to a different point in his career yeah you know what I don't want to talk about he's an anti-Semite I don't want to piss anybody off it's rough yeah it's it's not great
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So that's their, this is an old TV show. To a kid now, it's Friends, it's Seinfeld. That's their old, it's an old TV show. Yeah. But yeah, so things just, they go and they never announce when they're leaving. They never tell you, oh my God, this is the last year that this is going to be relevant. So it can happen. And the question is, could it happen to, the NBA won't ever culturally expire.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. Not awesome. Not a great, not a great turn of events. It's just like, it's just weird. You can't, you can't, but then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
What about all of the lights though? What about streetlights? What about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
To the All-Star game. Has it happened to All-Star weekend? Has that culturally expired?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's the best all-star game by far.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So funny, as much as we have in common, like the different lives that we've lost. In 2000, I remember hiring somebody from the neighborhood so that I could steal cable. And you were getting the DirecTV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The cable guy literally knocked on our door and was like, hey... I done taken it off again. Don't have him come back. I'm going to have somebody come out here. So, yeah, here's the thing. The last All-Star game might have been 2003. Okay, I can understand that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But was that MJ, Kobe? Kobe has a red jersey on and him and MJ are going back and forth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. However, the weekend endured for a little while longer because there were still such memorable moments from the weekend. There was Blake Griffin jumping over to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. Right. And then there was one of the greatest spectacles we've ever seen from the All-Star game. The Aaron Gordon, Zach Levine dunk contest. We're still having moments where there's still signs of life. It's still kicking. But it hasn't had a pulse now in a while. There hasn't been anything to make you go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
As a matter of fact, the only thing I can think of was Steph Curry versus Sabrina, the shootout that they had. And they didn't do that this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You go against your own, huh?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
interesting well it was a big weekend for the whites it was a gigantic weekend for the whites three point dunk hockey but you became a hockey fan yes huge snl 50 one of the whitest tv events yeah they tried to they tried to make fun of it we know the truth though um but so look there's just no this used to be something to where you saw all these celebrities and all of these people there not because it was a corporate thing which is kind of how it feels now right kind of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. Now it feels like every time you see somebody famous, they're at the meta party or the Pringles event or the whatever. It seemed like before that they just wanted to be there because it was the biggest party of the year or one of them. Yeah. Super Bowl weekend and other things like that. Notwithstanding. But now it is. it all feels forced. None of it feels like fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
None of it feels grounded in basketball culture in any actual way. I actually went on Twitter and I asked what killed all star weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And the variety of answers, it was so wide. But they were also all plausible, which tells me that the NBA has not just one problem with All-Star weekend, but several. There's a player culture problem as far as how they view the All-Star game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They don't want to get embarrassed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Endless highlight feed type of situation, right? There's a top-down NBA problem, some people were saying, with Adam Silver. There's the way we ingest culture. The enabler, Adam Silver? The enabler, Adam Silver. So there's all of these different issues that's going on with the All-Star game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Three-pointers. And not one clear way to fix it. Not one clear way to say, hey, this will bring the magic back to the weak end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They're trying to make the, the all-stars play. And they figure if they put the young guys out there that they won't win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, he's the biggest star in the league. We don't have too many more all-star games to enjoy him. So everybody wants to see him. Everybody just wants to see him out there. It's an odd thing. So, you know, as I try to make myself watch it, like I didn't try to make myself watch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I love basketball. So I'm going to watch NBA players doing cool stuff. We're the audience. There just wasn't NBA players doing cool stuff. That's what the all-star game is about. It's about NBA players doing cool stuff. Even the dunk contest. You have Mack McClellan doing cool stuff. He's kind of not an NBA player, though. So it's still not NBA players doing cool stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He should have won, maybe. He's pretty good. He's pretty good. But so, you know, it's just it's tough, man. Like there was a clip going around of the Thompson brother from up there in Detroit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
flying did you see this clip well I mean those guys are the best athletes probably in the league right now he flew from like the restricted area and dunked the ball it looked almost superhuman and I'm like that kind of energy and stuff is what you see at the dunk contest it used to be one or two stars And then two or three, oh my God, this guy's a crazy athlete guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And that mix of guys was enough to make that night electric. And it's just gone. Now we're hoping that they don't fail. And it just doesn't feel the same anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I would love it. My thing is I would wonder whether or not these guys could take the loss. You know what I go back to? Do you remember when LeBron was adamant about hiding the video of getting poked on at his camp when the Crawford kid? I don't remember that story. Which Crawford kid was it? Oh, it was, it was Jordan Crawford. It was Jordan Crawford. I vaguely remember it. So, oh my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So Jordan Crawford dunks on LeBron at his camp and they hit the video. They like, they deep shadow protocol, Midnight Boys, pew, pew. They deep shadow protocol the video. Wow. And I just remember at that time thinking, this has been made into such a big deal. Getting dunked on is something that happens. Anyone can dunk on anybody. You get caught from behind, you get lobbed, backdoor, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But to me, that vision of yourself as a player and yourself as an entity is the same reason why these guys can't let their hair down a little bit and have fun in an all-star game. Because at an all-star game, for it to be fun, Somebody has to kind of lose. It's competition. It's fun. Somebody's going to lose a three-point contest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
I was as surprised with his fall as I was with Anthony Richardson's rise when he was going through the process because I had watched so much of him. I watched so much of him and I had seen him like never really play competent quarterback at Florida outside of some moments and a couple of games. With Shador, it's completely the opposite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
I expected that the measurables wouldn't be crazy because when you watch him, you think sometimes is he a noodle arm? He obviously isn't hyper twitchy as far as his movement when he decides to run. However, just watching him as a football player, as a football player, he won games and he changed programs when he got to the destinations that he ended up in college football.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Now, a lot of people might say, hey, his record at Colorado was mediocre, and it was. But if you look at what Colorado was before he got there, a lot of that offense is on his shoulders and he always made plays. And he seemed like the kind of guy that you would want at quarterback in terms of the toughness, the ability to make throws in big moments, the ability to make big game-winning drives.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
He's getting his ass kicked. But when it was time to measure out and get in front of people, I guess they didn't like what they saw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Like, well, see, this is what I would say about that. I understand what you're saying. I don't want to, you know, Rich is in the NFL now. He just was the example that popped in my head. But like I watched him like legitimately struggle to grasp his offense and to be consistently productive in it. And all year long, there were narratives about whether or not the guy was hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Or what was the reason that he couldn't play? You know, I can't really say that about Jackson Dart. What I can say about Jackson Dart is that there are times in big moments and big games where Jackson Dart wasn't there. And there were weird off games where it seemed like teams kind of had ganged out Kiffin's scheme a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
And they were able to shut down Jackson Dart and render him ineffective. But when you look at the team, Ole Miss' team from last year, they spent a lot of money. Trey Harris was hurt most of the year. That was a guy who probably would have been a first-round pick at receiver. And then Juice Wells, the big transfer, That came in from South Carolina. He didn't work out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
He had a disappointing season. So it wasn't like they had explosion all over the office. They had Ulysses Bentley. They had some other guys in the backfield that were running the ball pretty well. But the team was a little bit off kilter. Dart was shouldering a lot, a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
of the load for them offensively because they weren't really getting separation from their wide receivers and a lot of stuff was going on there. Two things I'll say differently, though. He had a multi, multi-million dollar squad. There were dudes or supposed dudes everywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
The reason why you would say that Shador Sanders, you have to call him clutch, is because Colorado was incapable of dominating anyone. If they were going to win a game, It was normally going to be by six. It was going to be by three. And Shador was going to have to make plays for them to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Yeah. He was going to have to make plays for them to win. And I'm just surprised that no one saw when you talk about the intangibles. A lot of people are talking about, well, he's bad in an interview. He's cocky. He's this. He's that. The intangibles that I saw was a guy who was able to rally his team and get them to really play for him. A guy who stood in there again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Behind one of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen in college football history. Like one of the worst lines I've ever seen. And make plays and deliver throws. And there was a throw in that, not to filibuster or belabor it, there was a throw I specifically remember in the North Dakota State game. Where he gets drilled and the ball comes out and I'm thinking that's a pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
I'm like, oh my God, that's a pick. No, he floated it to Horn. Horn ran under it and I think that he scored. So I just thought that somebody would say that's a guy that I could build an offense around, particularly one of these obviously dumb teams, but... I guess they didn't feel that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Yeah. I would have been into it. I mean, look, at this point, you know, I take Lucifer at quarterback rather than Derek Carr. Like, there are all kinds of people like OJ Simpson could quarterback us. You know what I mean? Kanye West. Like, there are a lot of people that they could put in their quarterback right now that I take over Derek Carr pretty much like anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
But look, there's no doubt that in the right situation, Shador Sanders has what it takes to be successful. What I am not, I'm a guy who watches a lot of college football. Like I watched every snap that Dart took this year. I watched every snap that Sanders took this year, right? I just watch every game possible and especially the teams in the SEC. I have to watch them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
What I can't do is get granular as far as the breakdown of what NFL guys see that makes them go, oh my God, this guy is undraftable. I can only tell you the tape that I saw when they were playing games, actual games on a football field. And on a football field, it seems like Shador Sanders is a winning player. Jackson Dart is a great big strong guy who's incredibly tough, incredibly tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
But I don't know, man. That offense, it's designed to manufacture statistics. it's a simple offense because they go so fast. So there's just a lot of things that Jackson Dart might be asked to do on the next level that I don't think he was asked to do at Ole Miss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
I got drawn into that. I don't know. The cultural story of this one is... is pretty big as well. Like, I saw Dion get at Dan Orlovsky on Twitter. And... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody said that Dan Orlovsky is a hater now because he gave a somewhat... negative opinion about Shador Sanders. And it wasn't really a negative opinion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
He said, if Shador Sanders doesn't go in the first round or if a couple teams pass on him, this will be why these are the things that he needs to work on. And someone comes and says, I didn't know he was a hater. And Dion goes, oh my God, he's a hater. The Dion part of this just cannot be overlooked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
The fact that Dion is such a gigantic personality that maybe there are some people that have been rubbed the wrong way by the entire Colorado apparatus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
And that is the thing that's going to be gnawing at the talking heads for the next couple of days because quarterbacks fall all the time, but this one's going to be seen as a gigantic injustice where it could be just a guy that the NFL scouts don't like or it could be more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
I guess, yeah, I get what you're saying, but I looked at that sort of from a different perspective to where it's a weak quarterback draft. like a weak one, right? And he still fell out of the top, out of the first round. Like we watched a draft where Michael Penix with a really questionable medical, like that guy's a stuck quarterback, don't get me wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
And he ran four or five when he was at the combine, so obviously his legs worked. But we watched him get taken. We watched the JJ McCarthy thing still blows my mind, right? And it's not, I'm not saying that the guy's not good. I'm saying that we're talking about someone that was in a hand the ball off, make a couple plays a game offense, right? Game manager. Game manager.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
He is about to be handed the keys to the kingdom up in Minnesota. All of that stuff together. I know that the team won a lot and that's got to mean something. But I'm saying now, it just seems like it wasn't that Shador Sanders didn't find the right fit in the first round. It seemed like he was radioactive, which it wasn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
But can I ask you a question? Let's say that it's not a fake story. The question is, why is it a story? Why would an anonymous source... You have a bad interview with Shador Sanders. Right. Why are they saying anything? I'm just asking. Yeah. By the way, I'm not casting any type of expression. I'm saying... I'm asking why. Like, you have a bad interview with Shador Sanders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
But it got to a point to where every single fucking thing was so negative. Like, did you hear... that we watched him tie his shoes and it took him fucking five seconds to do the loop-de-loop. Something's wrong with this guy. He's undraftable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
the whole thing. So I'm just, you know, I'm, by the way, I'm not, I'm just saying that this was pretty remarkable for, from a guy. There's that other tweet from Dion where Dion is saying, Hey, my son's going to go top five. It's really like, everyone was saying that he was going to be like a top five draft pick. Some people say, there's this word for three months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
There's one other thing that I looked back at it and I was like, these things didn't help, at least to me. So Kim Ward and Shadur Sanders trained together. And so all throughout the last couple of months, there were all of these training videos of them and they were throwing together. And, you know, Ward would step up and he would throw a couple reps.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
And then Shadur would step up and he would throw a couple reps. And I remember watching both of those guys throw and being like, uh-oh. You know what I mean? Like, don't get me wrong. Shaduha throws a pretty football. I think he's a first-round quarterback. I think he's going to have a successful NFL career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
But the physical difference between the guys was pretty remarkable when you watch both of them throw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
All I can say is that the guy faced some of the best, most talented pass rushers in the entire country. And he didn't hold up. He fucking dominated. He dominated. He didn't, he wasn't a, this is a guy who can hold up at tackle for you. This was a dominating pass blocker. And I'm sorry, man. Actual game shit has to matter. He is a dog. You guys got a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
No, I thought, I thought it was actually more interesting that when he was walking up to the podium to go talk to Goodell, that he completely ignored Brian. Like that, that freaked me out as an LSU fan. I'm wondering, do they fuck with this guy? Like he completely ignored Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly actually went, gave one of these to him. He just, he didn't have any time for coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
For value slash kick ass for the team. I mean, the value picks are pretty obvious here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
That didn't jump out of the tongue. I think the entire time I was surprised that the entire state was surprised that... that they took a tackle. This is not a value pick, but my favorite pick of the entire draft was one that was scripted exactly the way it was supposed to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
It was Ashton Gentry to the Raiders because of all of the excellent players that we've talked about all year long, he is such a fucking dominant football player. He's such a dominant football player and he's going to a team that has some pieces where he's going to really get a chance to produce. I think he's going to have like a flat out awesome rookie year. I'm excited to use him on Madden too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Yeah, yeah. He had the injury, but it's a great pick. A terrorizing player when he's healthy, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Probably not, but if you're there, I take him in front of Carter. Because to me, what's the best case scenario for Carter? That he turns into a Micah Parsons type of player? He's not quite as good as Micah Parsons, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Slightly poor man's Parsons, right? Hunter, though, to me, has the opportunity, particularly if he just decides on one side of the ball, To me, the defensive side of the ball is where I think he needs to be. He could be everything. He could be the next Deion Sanders, Darrell Revis type of player that like locks up a side of the field for a team for X amount of years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
I'm just kidding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
26%.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Oh yeah, please.
The Rewatchables
‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
There are small things in the movie that just make you, that make this character one of the most lovable characters on the screen. Like, when he's in practice and he starts cooking... And he starts jumping up and down. And they're like, calm down, Mr. Farnsworth. But he's got his entire world back. This is all he wants to do.
The Rewatchables
‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This entire movie is happening because the backup quarterback has been promised the starting role. And he cannot get over that. And he's willing to come back from the dead or do whatever he has to do and on the way finds love. It really is an absurd premise. That shouldn't work but for the Charmed Elite.
The Rewatchables
‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And also just about what a good dude can undo. They're telling him that the porpoises... are being threatened by... We're being sued by a guy named Porpoise. We're being sued by a guy named Porpoise. And all of a sudden, which we'll talk about this later, I love scenes with every man in boardrooms. In big meeting rooms. Like Dave. I was going to say Dave.
The Rewatchables
‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
200 million and we're gonna make people feel better about their cars yeah and that's gonna cost 50 million you know he goes i don't want to tell some kid yeah they have to sleep in their car right so that somebody else feels better about their car do you want to tell him that no mr president i'm like get his motherfucking ass yeah i'm like get him dave um and so you know you just love the guy so much you want him to win the super bowl by the end of the movie well julie christie
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But it was kind of just like a delightful, whimsical, metaphysical heaven movie, which they had a lot of back then. There was this one. There was The Heavenly Kid. There was Oh God and Oh God Book Two. A lot of movies that dealt with death and angels and God and stuff. They don't really do that much of those anymore. All culminating in Highway to Heaven with Michael Landon.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Okay. She's, you know, she's maybe like out of that.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Maybe foreign Hall of Fame. Okay. Like Monica Bellucci.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Type of Monica Bellucci wing of the Hall of Fame.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Judi Dench. Judi, young Helen Mirren. Like Excalibur. Yeah.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Real quick. For a guy who was as suave as him, he got cupped a lot. What do you mean? Oh, in movies? Well, no. She went with Donald Sutherland, which I saw. And then he very famously got cucked when Axl Rose... Can you really say he got cucked if he's taken down... Oh, with Stephanie Seymour? Stephanie Seymour. And that was a big deal. And that, to me, was a big story about the end of Beatty.
The Rewatchables
‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Because Beatty was still the... And then Axl Rose comes along...
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Glass is half full CR right here.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Highway to Heaven with Michael Landon, which is a whole cultural phenomenon. But it was just one of my favorite movies when I was a kid.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's beautiful. His life looks like... If you are 14... his life looks like the greatest life ever. He's by himself. He's working out. He's making a liver and weight shake. It's like a version of Rosillo. It's 78 Rosillo. It's 78 Rosillo. It's like he's working out. He's grinding tape, talking to football coaches, biking around.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
As he's watching Ahmed Thompson tape. Coach is coming over. He's talking to him.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, and then he gets the opportunity of his life and then things go bad. That's our inciting incident.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Can I give you the most pre-two fact about Julie Christie ever? I just popped up. You also just wanted to say pre-two. Pre-two. I like that, Bill. I gotta be honest with you. I don't think I made it up. She was a contender for the role of Honey Rider in the first James Bond film, Dr. No. But producer Craig's guy, Albert R. Broccoli, broccoli?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Broccoli. Broccoli. Reportedly thought that her breasts were too small. So she didn't get the role.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
That's a pre-two motherfucking.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Because he probably said that to somebody in like an interview with like some magazine. 60s. 60s. Yeah.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Astounding. I looked at this, and this is a spot of ignorance of which I have many. I looked at this as one of my cute, quirky childhood movies for almost the entire time.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Something like that. It was astounding how well received it was critically.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Could have done that on a Monday, Max? Also, the rare trainer that has input on who's going to start on Sunday. We have that coming up. But no, this is how I know him. I mean, this movie was essentially how I know him. This and Verdict, yeah. This and Verdict, and then Carbon Copy later on, and all that stuff.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
People just knew how to do it back then, man. People want to have fun at the movies.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
People knew how to make movies back then.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
As much as people... As much as people hate... There's been some hate here at The Ringer on Philo Beto and Every Which Way But Loose. Who hates that movie? I can't remember who I was talking to. It might have been Sean. It might have been Criterion Collection himself. Oh, I should have figured.
The Rewatchables
‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And a very serious period.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
By the way, interesting thing with the title sequence. We don't come in with any zany music or anything like that. We come in silence. Heaven can wait across the screen. Which, like, you'd have thought, like, with the tone of the rest of the movie, that they would have got you ready for it. But no, they want to get you into the world.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like a serious guy's life who actually is a serious football player.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You can watch this movie and tell, because when I'm watching the film, I'm thinking to myself, okay, who could play this role? Is this a role that Mark Harmon... I guess he wasn't acting yet. He's probably still at UCLA around this time. But who else could have played this role, obviously? But when you watch him drop back, he's dropping back, ball up, elbow slotted.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He knows that he knows how to throw the football, and he wants enough passes for him to actually have some film and some tape. I have that written down. Warren Beatty thinks he's the man.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But you know what else is in the movie very subtly? The jargon. Like, they want you to hear him get out that terminology.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like, you could tell that, at least from him, like, he had played some ball before. He's given out the route combinations to the receivers, and they want you to hear all of that and go, what does that mean?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I feel like they just did that because you know the guy who plays Reacher now there was a picture of him at a Cubs game and everybody was like oh my god Allen Richen or whatever he is definitely Reacher because if that motherfucker is just walking around looking that angry dressed up like Reacher the whole time they're definitely shooting Reacher when he's in the stands of the Cubs game I guess they still do it every now and again
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The light fixture in the mirror. He comes right into the room where they are, and they're alerted to the fact that he's still alive, but the gag that they did right before they tried to kill him is the same gag that they go back to, which means his character doesn't care, which means you're okay to not care. Just move on from it.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
A porn actor would have been fun. But they're trying to show him people. Okay, so let's do this. They're trying to show him people that...
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He's also a convincing every man playing football.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Murr poked your leg. I was thinking about that. What would be the thing that you would say to somebody to let them know unequivocally that it was you? Not like your wife or something like that.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Like somebody that's in your life like that. Like, you know, they had there was the cracking of the neck.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Playing of the flute. Like if you're trying to convince me that it's me.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Right, which you have to be able to charisma yourself in and out of that as well. There's just not a lot of guys out there or stars out there. We look at movies, I think, in a different way now that you could give them a movie and go, if you're good in this, the movie works.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Craig, I'll be honest with you. We need to do more work. There's absolutely nothing that you and another body could do to convince me that you were you.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It has to be a core memory. It has to be something like, think about what he tells him. Do you and I have a core memory? There are things we could do.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It was the weirdest fucking thing. So listen, so listen.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So listen, it's the weirdest fucking thing, bro. It's the weirdest thing.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It was just like, I was like, hey, sorry. So he's telling the story and he goes, we have caddies. And I'm looking at him because I'm listening to the story. And he turns around and he goes, yeah, we need to have caddies. I'm like, I don't give a fuck about that. There you go. That's your core memory now. Remember a time you fucked up the caddies? The weird bagger van shit? Yeah.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
67 million for the Rams?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It was only supposed to be 19.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Could he start at point? Like Mark Zuckerberg, not Mark Zuckerberg. So I'll just go ahead and do it now. Number one, I got Jerry Jones. What? I want to see Jerry Collins. Like 40 years ago. No, now. Playing football? I want to see Jerry play offensive line for Arkansas. Okay, he was the captain. I want to see Jerry Jones protect Dak. Jimmy Dolan, James Dolan, we'll call him Jimmy. He's playing.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You and him get along. And, like, I'd have him. Brunson is on the bench. I want Jimmy running the point. 5'10", also his band, J.D. and the Straight Shot, they could play at halftime. Magic Johnson, owner in two different sports.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So either I want to see Magic play, hit cleanup for the Dodgers, Or I want to see Magic as a pass-catching tight end for the Commanders.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I was having such a good time. Donald Sterling.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Power forward for the Clippers. I want to see him play against Isaiah Stewart and Draymond Green in a game with no fouls or flavors where every point he scores, it costs them $50,000. I just want to see physical basketball for him. That's it. That's my list of owners.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You think Missoula could play, like, meaningful minutes?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Okay. What about Jason Kidd?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
They probably could use it.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Chauncey Billups, maybe. Because it looks like he could still give you some minutes.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You got disregarded. For God's sake. He's trying to... Man. Grodin is fucking cooking in this movie.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I don't know if it's held up. It definitely holds up.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Not to get too far off the movie, but you know why the movie holds up? To me, that's obviously people are going to say Fletch and obviously The Vacation, but Chevy... is so perfect in that role as the good-looking, tall, curmudgeonly... But it's like a fuck-up first husband guy. It is, but he's perfectly cast in that opposite of her too.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You've been known to cry during sad movies. Oh, yeah, I cry. So I didn't cry during this one, but I cry in movies. The scene where Joe is trying to appeal to him. Where Max is trying to appeal to him. Where Max is trying to appeal to him is legitimately sad. It's so heartbreaking.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's like legitimately the jubilation that you feel when he's able to convince him that he actually is his friend is then completely disintegrated by the fact that he then has to lose that friend again. Yes.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Hey, look, just do me one favor. Look at me. Just... Look at me.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And, like, to me, the acting that's done in the movie, so much of it is on that character to be like, oh, my God, I got my buddy back. Let's get him to the Super Bowl. He wins the Super Bowl. They actually have a moment where, hey, it's you again. And then he's gone again forever. Dies right in front of his eyes, basically. And the only thing he has left is the saxophone.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Still hadn't got over it. But... Burt Reynolds is interesting because you dial... Obviously, the football stuff would be amazing, right? He'd almost be too good. Almost be too good at the football stuff like he was in The Longest Yard. But Warren Beatty de-pretties himself in this movie. He seems... He's legitimately one of the hunkiest, dreamiest, best-looking guys ever.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So my most rewatchable scene is actually the scene where he's convincing him.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, that's like the delightful scene. But I also want to give some love to the boardroom.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The boardroom is just so much fun.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He's... he's functionally the most ignorant guy in the room, but then he's actually the smartest guy in the room in human compassion.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Right. Yeah. So it's like all of that stuff. Just fantastic.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, it just means he's, that's, it means nothing that he's the quarterback.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You could make an argument that if this movie were remade, that it wouldn't be, his motivation wouldn't be to start the Super Bowl. Sure. That his motivation would be monetary in some way.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
it would be like to own the rams yeah there's no football game you know i mean the mood the motivation would be like i need to continue to play because i need to get this much money or get i need to build a new football stadium in la what's your most 1977 thing it's that okay no i'm saying the fact that he was like a that he i was i wrote that like playing being a quarterback for the rams didn't mean anything all right i have some runners-ups okay
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But he plays it so goofily and with so much heart that you believe that he is the dude that is on the outside of everything that is glitzy and glamoury and full of money.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I know. Yeah. I actually had that in What's Aged the Worst, and I guess it could have aged the worst or the best, depending on how you look at it. $19 million.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He is the darker version of Warren Beatty. Warren Beatty is the lighter version of him. Did he ever play a role like this that was kind of like this delightful? You always had that little thing with him.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Almost to the point that in Bugsy... Nobody says butt cheeks anymore.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
They are, like, fucking inside of the house. They're living together inside of the house while she's married to somebody else.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like, it's just so funny. Him hiding in the curtain. Kind of reminds me of, like, the side relationship in Who's Harry Crumb?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Just on the cuff just now? Yeah.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Who's Harry Crumb? Great movie.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I gotta be honest with you. Look, I am anti-dick riding and I never will do it. I could have just made that up, but that's not a thing that I do. But I would be... remiss if I didn't give you props. You just made that up. Now, if I read this in Vanity Fair somewhere or something like that, I'm going to be furious.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The popularity of backup quarterbacks. Oh, yeah. This team is in a Super Bowl run. Yeah. And they're changing quarterbacks.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like going back and forth in a Super Bowl run. Another one.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
but yeah people are eating animal organs yeah raw meat everything like that I didn't even know whey protein powder was a thing in 1977 and he had like a bunch of mushroom I didn't realize that to the point to where it's already I would have thought that maybe they had whey protein that you could but he's it's like being so I mean it looks like now they had steroids in the late 70s too yeah we didn't know about it but they had a lot of them yeah just saying environmental causes oh yeah
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This movie is like literally one of the first movies that I can remember that was talking about this stuff is in what you're doing. We're being displaced the whole night. There are environmental costs.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like literally an asshole rich guy. An asshole rich guy who...
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Come on. He's such an asshole that he's walking around in a sailor outfit.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The cool looking plane.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It'd be so funny, Jomie trying to convince me that he's Bill. I know. No, I love the selfie. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oh, that's how I would fucking know.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
If you knew all of that stuff, all of the... Van, Van, Van. I'll tell you right now. Galactus. Bill would not know this. Mon Mothma moves, moving her money around. That was like, nah, it's you, Joe.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
What was the character we just did? I think I had one for that. Oh, I wanted to say something real quick. My favorite shot is, I think it's a weirdly moving shot when they go black out of the tunnel. And then they come out to the little speck of light. Because it's like, literally, everything goes black. He's gone. But then it's like, no, he's still here. And it comes out and he's right there.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's an awesome shot. I love that every time I see the movie.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
That's right. What if somebody else has inhabited Tua's body? We're watching George Blanda.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Jared's numbers. They are saying that Jared is completing an astounding 60% of his passes with a whopping 18 touchdowns. Oh. Like, fucking Jared is Derek Carr.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It might have been, but that as being like an incredible stat line, that's aged the worst.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So would you say Jared had? Since he was completing 6% of his passes, 18 TDs. But look, I mean, I know Dan Fowles was playing at this time, right? So there are some guys that are chucking it all around. Are there not? Or am I fucking completely off base? I don't know.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I have some really, really dark history. You ever heard of urban renewal? Yeah.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I just need more info. I'm about to turn Bill onto some shit. A people's history of Pagelson. We about to get a new pod.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So when I'm first getting an idea of who Warren Beatty is, it's he's dating Madonna. She's the biggest thing in the world. It's heaven can wait. And it's... A little while after that, it's Dick Tracy.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You could look at this as a horror movie, as a guy who's being tortured over and over and over again by God for some reason. Think about this. This is heaven. These are the people who cycle in bodies all day long. They get this guy out too early. essentially screwing up his entire life, killing him. They killed him. They put him in another body. He falls in love.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Then they yank him out of that body to put him in another body. Then they take his memory. So all it is for him to essentially die at the end of the movie, he dies. He dies. There's no more Joe. He dies. The dude's dead. He has no consciousness, no remembrance of, no memory of who he was. He's dead.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You could make an argument that this entire time, it wasn't God who was doing all this to him, that it was the devil. That it was the devil trying to get his soul. I'm telling you that the devil trying to get his soul. We actually don't know where that plane goes.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And torturing him over and over and over. It's kind of like the plot of the show. The good place. Yeah. It's like when you look at it, he gets fucked over for nothing. Like the entire time. And it never works out. Some other guy gets his chick.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
because he came in and did all the work and now he's his soul gets her though like they'll they're connected they see deep into each other's eyes in the hallway maybe maybe maybe but that's not how i see it the moment he loses his memory and think about when the guy tells him that he's losing his memory he didn't tell him that before he didn't say hey we're gonna put you in a bottle of this guy you're gonna lose your memory before he
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And then Bugsy becomes such a huge deal. And it doesn't land with a thud, but it doesn't land like he wanted it to.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
gets him out there and swaps the body. He's fighting away like fucking Kenobi, right? I agree that it was completely fucked up by Mr. Jordan.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Right! Like, he is, like, legitimately, you can look at this entire movie as a horror movie if you want. Because, like, looking at it as an older guy, I'm like, God damn, this shit is kind of fucked up. Why is Joe a bad guy?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Think about the horror. They're going around showing him people that are about to die. And it's these people, this is like Final Destination shit.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's too short. This guy's on the high wire. That guy probably fell off, broke his shit. The dude probably like Dale Earnhardt it out when he was like driving the car. This guy probably crashed, probably crashed the car. It's like, it's kind of scary when you think about the metaphysics of it all.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
That was a big premiere magazine movie. But then imagine being me and you were introduced to Carrie Fisher and Warren Beatty in Star Wars and in Dick Tracy and Heaven Can Wait and then you see Shampoo. Shampoo blew my mind when I saw it.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I hadn't thought of that either.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Because then even if you become Tom Jarrett and you're married, but also think about your parents. He might've had a side piece too. He might've had a whole.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
We'll just start doing the things Joe would have done anyway. I have another thought. A sequel horror movie to where Joe Pendleton's soul actually starts fighting. He's coming up. There's a movie like this that I'm thinking about, but he's trying to take over. He's picking up the thing. Tom Jarrett's breaking the fucking saxophone. It's heaven will not wait. Give me my colon. Give me my body back.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. The line play is heavily black. They should have been, first of all, they should have been, the moment that he became Joe, he should have called up his homeboys that was on the football team and he should have had to convince them
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
that he was joking hysterical they're all together think about like the left tackle and like the receiver yeah think about the kookiness yeah of those people in that stuck up like Lily White Mansion, when they come down and the linebacker room is in the living room. When the wide receiver room is out there. This is a funny thing in the movie that they missed.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's a funny thing in the movie that they missed.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, but just the adultness of it and how she was in the movie and how he was in the movie. I was like, oh, that's when people who have seen movies go, no, this guy was like, he was the guy of the town. He was the Richard Gere of his era or something like that.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Being a quarterback is one thing, but then you got to go out into the world in 1978. He's going to think about that for a second. If it wouldn't have been Tom Jarrett, it would have been Derek Jenkins.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He rewrites the record books on it. And he's just playing Italian jazz on his soprano. The reason why they got rid of Joe Milton is because it doesn't matter if you can throw the football 150 miles if you can't throw it to a live person.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Question about that, because that is true. You hear the same names.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, some of the names you hear that was going to play Sonny is stupid. Is the studio system still running things at this point? No, right? No, but they just want to bankroll seven actors.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And this is kind of like, I remember there used to be this, I can't remember what it was.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
No, but although... I think he was the most reliable box office guy. But you don't hear his name a lot when you hear about this. Oh, this could have been this guy. This could have been this guy. It seems like he's got enough cachet to just do his own movies that he wants to do that are only for him. It would have been a good Jack Horner. Eastwood?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oh, that's a good one. I have William Bogert, who's in the boardroom scene. He's the dad.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like, she's third billing. It's definitely a... Well, you think so? It wouldn't be Julie Christie?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You know what? I had a thought, man. New Orleans. I know I'm being a homer. New Orleans works.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
put like a little spiritual since it's a horror movie anyway spiritual voodoo element for new orleans some sort very compact city he's playing for the saints saints going to the super bowl would be a big deal i think new orleans could have worked only four times oh have fast internet research only four times in oscar's history have uh two people have been nominated for best directing oscar
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It wasn't we. I didn't have much to say. Actually, I did. I mean, we went first. You guys don't care about that. Okay, cool.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Well, I'm talking about metaphysical bodies.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Actually, to be honest with you, this is the movie that a lot of those movies are probably mimicking. What about Big? That's a metaphysical body swap movie, not involving heaven, but it's like supernatural type of shit. Big's a good one. Yeah. Maybe. Actually, it's probably Big. Big probably sets the tone for this. It's not like involving God, but it's probably Big.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
She actually becomes... Do you think the Showtime... It could be argued that the Showtime Lakers is actually the Apex Mountain of Diane Kennedy. Like so many people know her. Her in the NBA Fantastic commercial. Know her from just being a Lakers super fan. Being a Lakers super fan.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You could argue that the Showtime Lakers are her team.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
TV show. It's a pretty good mansion.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
A man who went to heaven before his time. I'm not supposed to be here. Well, you guys made a mistake. And came back to life in the body of another man.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I already did it. I wrote up the five.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Because they're demons. This is great.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He's like, he looks good. Yeah. Okay. He looks great. Why don't you go over there and stretch somebody out?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
warren baity was just like i don't want to make a lot of money with this movie or i want this to hit for me in a real way well this that's it kind of did both i guess to your point i wonder if our appetites have changed to the point to where those issue movies that guys make now that like we can't have we can't have fun and be serious yeah
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So they do this same thing in a fantastic movie called Wonder Woman 1984. Are you sarcastic about being fantastic? It's fucking terrible. It's legitimately terrible. Chris Pine comes back as Steve Trevor. However, in a different body. We see him as Steve Trevor. When he sees himself, we see the person that he's supposed to be. They should have done that.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It doesn't matter how much. It doesn't matter if you come in and you go, I'll pay $100 million.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
They talked about the douche push for like 18 months. Yeah.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This fucking guy, bro.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like, why are you getting that?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So they shoot Leo in his house and they don't think they're going to get caught? No, no, no, no. They don't fucking shoot him in his house. Because shoot him in his house means that somebody walks up to him while he's in a closet or he's in some place where nobody knows where he is and you double tap him and then go, somebody broke... No, that's not what they do.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It doesn't seem like the screwball comedy is the type of movie that's going to get taken seriously by the critics or is going to get you lauded in a way. You either have to go, look, it's me. It's Denis. We're in the desert. We're doing something. Or you have to decide, hey, you guys come have some fun. I'm going to go do a movie with the Farrelly brothers or with Adam McKay.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
They fucking... Lee Harvey Oswald him From a window in the house. I know. While he's standing in broad daylight.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. So it makes absolutely impressive shot to time it with the cannon. Yeah. But makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. You're caught. Like, you're caught.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But the funny part about that is they tried every other way to kill him, and then Groan goes, fuck it, I just gotta dome this motherfucker.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The whole Gruden and Cannon thing, they got like an episode or two just by themselves. Yeah. Just by themselves trying to kill them.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
If you could have the version of heaven be actually what it is from any movie, If heaven is, what movies, heaven, to you, is the best heaven that you would like the most?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oh, that's a good heaven. That's a good heaven. Good answer, Craig. What was a beautiful movie? What Dreams May Come? Good heaven.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Not a great movie. I'm trying to think of other heavens. Pretty rough movie. I'll tell you something.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
what you just said about heaven reminds me of something mr dyer told us uh sophomore year christian life academy god damn you get a lot of names of your teachers into pods i gotta tell you mr dyer told us i remember when he was telling us about the fact that there's a there was a dome of water yeah over the earth before the flood which is why people lived that long
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And during the flood, God dropped the water on us, and that's what made the flood. And then right after that, after the flood, everybody stopped living as long, right? This was a whole thing. What did he teach? Well, this was Christian life. Oh, okay. So they're teaching you calculus a little bit, and then they go, let me tell you why if you don't get this right. Well, I got you guys here.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This is what he said. I remember one time he was talking about heaven and doing the whole deal. He's like, I hope you guys know that in heaven, you will work. It's not just going to be a situation where you're hanging out and enjoying it the whole time. You're going to wake up. You're going to go out. You're going to pick grain. You're going to do something. You're going to be a stone cobbler.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
There's going to be work in heaven. And I remember looking around that class at a group of youngsters who thought that if we could only get it right on the earth, that we would be up in heaven chilling for eternity and watching this fucking guy break our hearts. So I'm telling you guys right now,
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
In heaven, you will have to be middle management for some other planet or some other civilization where you're gonna have to find people and get them on the metaphysical plane.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Is your version of heaven New York? Hitting on every bet? No, because it's going to get old, right?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I am so in the latter.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Oh, Jesus. We got to move on. I'm about to freak out.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I'm about to freak out for real, bro. We got to. We got to move on. Literally, I'm feeling anxiety rising in my feet right now.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Corko was committed. The very next day, he fucking loses it. Oh, yeah. So you don't think that when he finds out... Tom gets him fired. The very next day after he has gone through his friend dying, his friend coming back, and then losing it again, his brain completely fucking unravels. He spends the rest of his life... He's the only one that knows. Remember, she doesn't know.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The only one that knows that he came back in a different body, and then he's gotta be around this guy, he's gotta work with this guy.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He becomes an alcoholic, his life completely goes, he tries to, he writes books, he gets a ham radio and starts trying to communicate with people, a public access TV show, like the whole nine, but nobody ever believes him, he goes crazy.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Like it. What do you have? Meet Joe Black. Yeah. It's a terrible film. That movie sucks. You guys, but this is a movie that meant a lot. Okay. To us in the community, we watched it. I had so much clear for Lanny stock.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Do you think the fact that it was so critically acclaimed, like changed your opinion of it going in?
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Jesus. How many movies do you like where God or heaven is in the movie? I love Bruce Almighty. Okay. Because that stopped being a thing after a while. Bruce Almighty. Bruce Almighty is a good one. But I think that in my era, there were still a lot of movies with that.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Warren Beatty. Julie Christie. Heaven can wait. Rated PG.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You know what? When you look at that when you look at that list of movies that he turned down and then you look at some of the movies that he did, it's interesting why he would
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
make some of the decisions like well maybe it's just because okay so he does like dick tracy which is uh yeah like this big beautiful disaster basically right um well the movie that means a lot to me but like the movie is kind of like all over the place or like whatever uh i love dick tracy by the way but like to look at the script for misery and then kind of not want to do it
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But, you know, like there are certain actors and actresses and even directors that are of their times. Sure. And they have a more sensitive cultural exploration date than others do. So for whatever reason, also this also, there was never an unforgiving for him. There was never a movie that made everybody go, Oh my God, this guy was big in the sixties.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Huge in the seventies. And look what he can still do.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Always one that I thought they could get away remaking. Very possible. Always one that I thought if you take this type of story and then sort of tune it up dust it off a little bit and set it in a contemporary world. Like it still would be a lot of fun.
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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Absolutely. How come? It was on all the time when I was a kid. And, you know, looking back at it and doing some research on the movie, didn't have any idea that it was taken as seriously as what it was. Like a real critical and commercial hit.
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, but Cousy can't fucking dunk. The next day, Cousy. The poor can't do shit. Like, so what are you talking about?
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
but I have like a I just feel like Happy essentially invents NIL collectives right like he's like a precursor for that and he's just like friends of the program we owe them this money yeah these athletes generate millions of dollars for the university what do they get nothing what do you get you get a multi-year contract you get a six-figure shoe deal so your team can be a walking billboard and that is all legal and then you get another six figures for that lousy TV show get out of my face
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
We owe it to him. We owe them this money.
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's like, look at this kid. He's just throwing it to the team.
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
No, it's great. No, you got bumped out for a split second.
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I haven't watched it in years.
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I'm like, I want to play a little one-on-one.
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‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And Nolte was just like, that's what Nolte,
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
What's up, Rewatchables fans? As you know, we've done live shows in New York, in Philly, DC, in Chicago, LA many times. We've never done Boston. I've been saving it for the right moment. The right moment is here. It's going to be Thursday, March 27th. It's going to be the House of Blues, which is right by Fenway Park. And it's going to be
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
First Best Picture film since Rocky in 1976 to only win three Oscars. To show what a shocker this was. By about the 10-year anniversary... The first thing, the end of the decade, that was when the first backlash really happened. By 2015, they're writing about it. And Paul Haggis, the director, he said, was Crash the best film of the year? I don't think so.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Crash, for some reason, affected people, touched people. People still come up to me more than any of my films and say, that film just changed my life. I've heard that dozens and dozens and dozens of times. So did its job there. I mean, I knew it was the social experiment that I wanted. So I think it's a really good social experiment. Is it a great film? I don't know.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I don't remember family law. 35-year Scientologist, left in 2009, three years after he wrote Casino Royale, which is like his last big Hollywood thing. And then he's one of the ugliest Me Too stories. Yeah. Had like a civil suit for rape and got bankrupted by it two years ago, claimed that church framed him.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. So yeah, that's part of the history of this movie. Yeah, I don't talk about them people. The cast includes two future Oscar winners. Yeah.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Terrence Howard. Matt Dillon, nominated. Cheadle, nominated. Michael Peña. Ryan Philippe. Kind of tail end of the Ryan Philippe era. Philippe. You mentioned Newton. How do you say her first name? Philippe. Is it Philippe? Tandui.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I call him Ryan Philippe. That was Tandy.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Lorenz Tate. Yeah. Interesting Lorenz Tate role. So I was going to do this later, but I genuinely like him and I like him in every movie. And I don't know why he wasn't a slightly bigger star. He was in a lot of movies that I liked playing guys that I liked in the movie. He had a really nice 10 year run and then he just kind of went to TV and that was it.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
But they're about the same age, yeah.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
He is, for sure. Ludacris is a hell of an actor. Ludacris is... As IMDB, I was looking at it and I was like, man, I like a lot of these movies.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
All right, Joanna Robinson is here. Van Lathan is here. You guys have sorted out all your Marvel stuff? Yeah. Captain America, Brave New World. It's a text exchange.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I just like him. I think he's good. So, this was inspired by a real-life incident where Haggis' Porsche was carjacked in 91 outside a video store in Wilshire Boulevard.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Totally makes sense now. And he kind of had this idea, filed it away, wrote an outline for it, didn't do anything with it for 10 years.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Well, he said he wrote Crash to criticize racists and bust liberals for the idea that the U.S. had become a post-racial society.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
He showed us. They had a $7.5 million budget. He took out three mortgages on his house. They reused locations to try to save money. The cast took way less. And they sold it in Toronto for $3.5 million. Released it in the spring of 2005. Built it wide. Put out the DVDs in the fall. And then Oprah. That was the big stamp of approval. That sounds right. The whole cast comes on the show in October.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Oprah stamps the movie. Then they decide to put DVDs to the different guilds. They were the first movie to send the DVDs to all the guild members. All of a sudden, you win a Best Picture Oscar.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
They created it. Oprah and screeners.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I don't care. I don't care at all. I do care about the biggest Oscars Travis did in the 21st century, Crash winning over Brokeback Mountain. This is a weirdly watchable movie. And I would even say a rewatchable movie. that is also now kind of a comedy.
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Let's do it after the break. All right, Van. Retrospective on Oprah's decision-making. Wasn't expecting this in the outline.
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No, Van's not going near Scientology.
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That's an interesting title. I like it, Joe.
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Well, we found out. They made it on Starz.
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That's why the show got canceled.
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Showtime is a great call. HBO Passes. Might be Starz because it was on Starz.
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How about 10 years later is Crash. Is it a Netflix? It's for sure Netflix. It's like the fourth show they make. So a couple other things. Terrence Howard we mentioned a huge year. Bullock is in the movie for like less than 10 minutes but was really important I remembered her being in it so much more. Here's Before we get to the categories, who's the worst person in this movie?
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No, I'm saying character, not actor.
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Oh, I think the Tony Danza scene's good. That's a good scene, too. I thought that was one of the most realistic scenes.
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There's good scenes in this movie, but the totality of it leaves me going. I can't believe this happened.
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It's a shit sandwich as a gift. Yeah.
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I think the worst character in the movie as a human being is Sandra Bullock. It's completely unredeeming in every way. There's not one redeeming thing. I was going to bring that up later. Did she create the Karen character? Is this the first Karen in the movie?
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It's like, Oh, Matt Dillon's running up the hill.
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Well, he's the answer to the other question, which is who's the best character in this movie. Easily. Easily him. Easily him. They probably deleted a domestic violence scene with him or something. Or something like that. I gotta make them not like him.
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He's going to try to save her in the car.
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Yeah, she's holding the purse.
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Where's Nona at? I interviewed her at the Ali Junket. I told you about that.
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How'd that go? She's unbelievable. I don't know why she wasn't a gigantic star. I don't really understand it.
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The Dream Team, me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Ryan Rosillo. That's right. We're all coming back. We're not doing the town. We're not touching the town. That one episode lives on forever on YouTube, Spotify. We're not redoing it, but we'll probably do a Boston movie. And tickets will go on sale this Thursday, February 27th. That's only a couple of days away at 10 a.m. Eastern.
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She was one of the most beautiful actresses of that decade. It felt like it was all sitting there for her.
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Probably. $6.5 million budget made $98.4 million. Lowest grossing film domestically to win Best Picture in 18 years. Last Emperor. It's a great film. One Oscars for picture, screenplay, editing. Nominated for director, Matt Dillon, and one more. Roger Ebert. Here we go. We love Roger Ebert. Every once in a while, he misses. The great ones miss. Larry Bird missed a couple game winners.
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Michael Jordan missed a couple game winners.
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Four stars. Best film of 05. Quote, not many films have the possibility of making their audiences better people. I don't expect Crash to work any miracles. But I believe anyone seeing it is likely to be moved to have a little more sympathy for people not like themselves. Give the context, though. What's the context?
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We're celebrating. I thought it was the 20th anniversary of when it won, but it's actually the 19th anniversary. It came out 20 years ago.
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After the Oscars, he said, as someone who felt Brokeback was a great film but Crash a greater one, I would have been pleased if either had won. And then he said about Crash, it's not a safe harbor, but a film that takes the discussion of racism in America in a direction it has not gone before in the movies.
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directing attention at those who congratulate themselves on not being racist, including liberals and or minority group members.
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Well, Coates called it the worst film of the decade in 2009. This was the first wave of the backlash. He said, I don't think there's a single human being in Crash. Arguments and propaganda violently bumping into each other, impressed with their own quirkiness. It's a kind of unthinking and curious nihilistic multiculturalism.
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Nothing tempers my extremism more than watching a fellow liberal exhort the virtues of crash. Then he just goes on and on and on, killing it. Let's get to the categories. What's the perfect age to see this movie? Exactly. I have 65.
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What do you think? You're a tiebreaker. 15 or 65 for Crash?
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There's a cousin to the 10-minute take, which was my stepfather after we saw Godfather 3. Yeah. Which is the, I've just lost my leg because it got bit by a shark, but my dad is telling me it's okay. Yeah. We're leaving off right there. He's like, no, no, it was okay. It was okay. It was good.
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And I was like, I have a bloody stump for a right leg.
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I think Joe's right. But I think old people still, the 65 and up crowd. Craig, what do you have?
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Can't wait for Craig's take later. Categories. Most rewatchable scene. Carjacking scene. It's a good scene.
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We're going to list a bunch of them. You have Peña and the daughter?
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The locksmith scene? Both being just a bitch from hell as poor Michael Peña's working on her door?
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He wants to murder him later on. Yeah. The locksmith scene, Brendan Fraser not being able to tell the difference between black and Iraqi, kind of an underrated racist moment in the movie.
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He just gets swallowed up by 28 other racist moments.
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Yeah. The Dylan Newton harassment scene, I don't know if rewatchable is the right word, but it's a pretty affecting scene. And I think Terrence Howard... I think she's really good in that scene. Terrence Howard and her are both fantastic in that scene. Terrence Howard's great in that scene. The way his demeanor slowly changes.
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That's the confusing thing about this movie is the actors are really good in it.
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Because he has this and Hustle and Flow the same year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And he had a lot of issues, to say the least, in his personal life.
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Terrence Howard. Yeah. If those issues don't happen, I think... I think he's in the conversation.
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I think he would have been in a bunch of great stuff. I think it made him unhirable for a couple years there. I'll say this. He's had a fantastic career, even still. But I think when he started having... His issues. Because right at the time, he would have been drifting off these two movies.
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Yeah. A couple more. The Tony Danza scene.
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No, I haven't noticed that. Really?
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Wait a minute, wait a minute. You think because of that, the audience won't recognize him as being a black man? Is there a problem, Ken? Excuse me? Is there a problem, Ken?
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Terrence Howard, there was an oral history about this movie, and Terrence Howard said about the Tony Danza scene, I remember Paul telling me about when he worked for a network, there were execs who told black jokes, and his black colleagues had to just laugh along. He wondered what their lives were like and what it felt like to be ethnically neutered. Shit.
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It's almost over for him as a star. Right. Sandra Bullock is like, I'm being typecast in rom-coms. I got to break out of this. I'm going to play the biggest bitch who's ever been in a movie. Meanwhile, Michael Pena is on the rise.
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Tony Danza, by the way, incredible stunt casting. Never thought I could see him like that.
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No way. He's pretty good in it. He's good. I was kind of surprised. Dylan saves Newton. A really well-filmed scene. It's absurd. I think if I'm her, I'd just rather die in the car.
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It's really well done, though.
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Despite it was eight of them? Least rewatchable scenes. And Terrence Howard getting carjacked and then fighting back would be the only other one I have.
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What's the most 2005 thing about this movie, Joanna?
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That's really good. My dad still has a landline. Yeah. Won't give it up. Oh, does he? Yeah. Interesting. I have no camera phones and unironic racism. Huh.
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Yeah. If they're doing this in 2025, somebody's filming something at some point in one of these scenes.
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Yeah. What do you have, Van? Smoking in Los Angeles.
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Yeah. What's aged the best? We mentioned Michael Peña. This is an important Michael Pena movie. It gets the train rolling for him as a movie guy. I'm a huge fan of his. I actually wish he was in more stuff.
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I was so fired up when he was in Landman. And then, spoiler.
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And then he was literally fired up because they blew him up in one episode. I haven't seen it yet. Yeah. What do you have for what stage of best ending?
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Oh, the Persian guy. The Persian guy. You're right. Who helped Iron Man.
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Oh, so he should win the That Guy Award.
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Or Matt Dillon near the end of being a major star.
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It was a 90s thing that I think people had forgotten about a little bit. We're bringing it back.
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Just first rewatchable. She's doing great. Rolling the heat. Really doing great. I have a what's aged the best because I didn't notice this until I watched this movie twice in six days. The very ending when the car gets rear-ended, that's Shaniqua.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. I just for some reason didn't notice that. And the insurance guy. Yeah. That's who?
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I'm not taking your bait. I have Keith David, who I love in every movie. He pops in this one. And just delivers.
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Yeah. I'd say the cast as a wet stage is the best for me. That's a good scene. That's a good scene. Yeah, Keith Davidson is very good.
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Although he did get nominated. He did. Which I was shocked by.
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I have one more. What's the best, but you guys, if you have anything left, tell me now. Uh, no, I like when Sandra Bullock gets a little Randy with her movie pics. Yeah. I like angry, bitchy Sandra Bullock. She did it in The Blind Side. It was a totally different character for her. I liked her in, what's the movie, When She Gets Gravity? Mm-hmm.
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I felt like the seesaw of her with rom-coms versus her pushing herself. And maybe Hollywood didn't take her seriously as a serious actress. But I think she's a really good actress. Well, she won an Academy Award. I know she did. But I think she just got pigeonholed in this Julia Roberts, Meg Ryan category for almost two decades. And then it finally kind of broke out of it a little bit late.
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What did you think on your rewatch?
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But I think she's really good.
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All About Steve. I'm pro Bullock is my point. I like her a lot too. What seems the best is Bullock.
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You'll be getting it on rewatchables this year.
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But you don't fuck with Interstellar at all. I haven't watched it since the year it came out.
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I'm going to sit that one out.
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I love Dark Knight. That's kind of Nolan. I respect all the Nolan movies. I wouldn't crank up, oh, let me get Inception on Blu-ray and crank this out. I think Inception's a polarized movie, though. Yeah. Yeah.
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I might be wrong on Interstellar. I know I'm not wrong about Contact. That's the one where I'm like, that movie sucked. You'll never convince me otherwise. That movie was bad.
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contact jody foster carl sagan joint about aliens and all that stuff david morse hey one time this episode of the rewatchables is brought to you by state farm life is full of reasons to celebrate and now at the state farm personal price plan you can keep celebrating when you create an affordable price just for you when you choose to bundle home and auto talk to a state farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan
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like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Back to the podcast. There you go.
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Great Shot Gorder Award. Most Cinematic Shot.
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This is an ugly looking movie. Matt Dillon pulling...
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I'm going to make Van Reen act that later.
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Wait a couple hours. Yeah. It happened that night. Did we have a Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award for best needle drop? There's no music in the movie. Yeah, there's really no music, right? Yeah.
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There you go. Put a little sauce on that motherfucker.
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Van, you're up with the flex category. You get to pick any category. I knew you were going to screw this up. Any category? I have my own category. Yeah. Okay.
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Okay, so I got to figure out what the category name of this is. Vans Historical... Go for it. The Van Lathan historical take a word.
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It's an amazing list. That's it. Stop it. I really wanted Miss Daisy to be number one, and you didn't disappoint me.
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We've done it. Well, The Help is another one where it's an absurd movie. Yeah. But the actors are pretty good in the movie.
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Ridiculously good. Emma Stone's really killing it in this.
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The Butch's Girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film. This is tough to narrow it down. I have the Persian shop owner because I still have no idea what's going on in that character and what his arc was in this movie. This is a 9-11 commentary. Well, he doesn't realize he has a gun with blanks, even though the box says blanks. He can't read English. He can't read English.
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He says that earlier in the movie.
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But don't the blank box even say blanks where it explodes and there's nothing there? No? What are you... There's a cartoon of... It's very clear that there's no bullets.
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He shoots a little girl with blanks and then everyone's like, okay, we're going to go inside now.
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They just went back in the house. Who wants some cereal?
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Honey, you want a Pop-Tart?
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He could understand it, he couldn't read it.
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Because Pena's like, you need a new door. I fixed the lock, you need a new door.
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But if he's so... dysfunctional that he can't understand he needs a new door how does he run a store like they make it so that he literally can't understand anything but yet we're expected to believe he's working 40 hours a week running a store but we gotta we can't do it he thought an angel saved him this character sucked uh what do you have joanna it's full it's good old philippe ryan philippe
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There's an amazing casting would have for this that we won't say now.
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You want him in Cruel Intentions.
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A bunch of people you could have grabbed.
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They could have had Omar. I mean, they could have picked anybody. What's aged the worst? Sandra Bullock falling down the stairs. This movie won for best editing. I encourage people, if they watch this after, to watch how bad the editing is. It's honestly like if we made a Spotify movie about The Ringer and we just did a quick cut to try to... It's so bad.
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They must have run out of money for that scene. Two movies named Crash in eight years is just weird. I think there should be a rule if I was the movie czar. You get a title, you at least get 20 years with the title for the next one. Yeah.
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I think it has to make at least like $5 million. Okay. Yeah.
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I saw it in the movie theater. That was weird. Let me tell you something.
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Spader has sex with the cut in her leg. Yeah.
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Rewatchables with Spader? Yeah. Do you know the other Crash, Craig? No. Oh, Craig.
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Craig, you got to get dirty.
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We should have just done Crash month.
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You should have done that after the Luka Doncic trade. You should have just started making clips of Crash. What do you have for what stage is worse, Joe?
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Well, there's a reason for that, though, because Howard, they wanted to push him for Hustle and Flow. And I think Howard would have gotten nominated over Dillon.
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I was surprised Newton didn't get nominated, actually, because I thought she was excellent.
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Yeah, for sure. They played that up. More with Sage the Worst. In LA, we're trapped behind metal and glass. You got to crash into someone to feel something.
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Freaky. Freaky. For like a bunch of freaks. Oh, since the 60s. Yeah, going for it.
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It could have been either.
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Morwitz aged the worst. Cheeto calls his girlfriend Mexican. And she responds by saying angrily, my mother's from Puerto Rico and my father's from El Salvador. And then he responds by saying, why do all of your people park their cars in their lawns? That's an actual exchange in the movie.
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Don't like Don Cheadle too much. She's got this side too. They're just trying to slide that in there. Sidebar.
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She's projecting. It didn't turn out well for the son and it was her fault, but she wants to blame the brother.
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See, Dan's talking himself into this movie. I'm not.
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All information will be on theringer.com slash events. very soon once again the rewatchables live boston thursday march 27th house of blues thursday ticket sales 10 a.m eastern ringer.com slash events and we're gonna have a couple more things we're doing that weekend too so i'm very excited we have not come to boston yet and we're gonna do it right hope to see you there
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What else do you have, Jo?
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Okay. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting award. Ooh, this is a good one. I hate to give it to Michael Peña. But the 10 second scream. What is happening? Why is it so long? It's just weird.
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She's supposed to be drunk, I think, is part of it.
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Well, she comes to his job.
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Ugly cry. Ugly cry that she does. Joe, you have a flex category. What do you got?
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Oh, that's so great. That's a great one. I'm sure I'd be so pleased.
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Hard R for this movie. Yeah.
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Hard R. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Interesting. Soft R, hard R. Soft R. So you just want him to knock some boots.
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Race. I like the nostalgia angle.
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In The Wire or in any of these others. Or they do The Eternal Affairs where it starts with him and it scales back.
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Mal would have been honored. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does it take a word? I already gave mine. I think Bullock's character was the original Karen. You guys disagreed.
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No, she's the... I think it's the first Karen. I think it's like the Neil Armstrong of Karens.
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He's going to be there in perpetuity. Were they trying to say something with one of them goes in a video store and sees all the choices for movies? Is that hitting us in the head with something?
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Yeah. Yeah. He's looking at all the MCU where it's going. Casting what ifs.
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A couple good ones. Forrest Whitaker was supposed to play the Terrence Howard role, but the filming got delayed.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I have Terrence Howard, but it was one of them. Cusack was attached to Matt Dillon, had to drop out. And then the big one is Heath Ledger was supposed to be Ryan Felipe. Okay. And dropped out. And this is kind of a different movie if he's in it.
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Could it be like a Monsters Ball Cop Heath Ledger performance? Wow.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Because he's like, I like I want to be in a place where people have to crash into each other to feel something.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
So Best Act Guy, it's the guy from Iron Man. That's a great one. You know who I have? Who else did you have? Jack McGee.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Fichtner used to be that guy, but then he became Fichtner. He did too much good work.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah, it's probably somewhere in the 90s it flipped.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Yeah. DN Waiters Award. Jennifer Esposito is eligible. Probably, yeah. She's great in this movie. Yeah, she is. I always liked her. I never understood why. They just didn't have anything for her to do. I always felt like there was a better career for her.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
There was a feisty policewoman series that she should have been on CBS for eight years. It's not too late.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Could have been like whatever that when they started spinning off CSI, Miami, all those. It could have been like CSI wherever and just she's the lead. Dan Waiters, one more. The guy who runs the Chop Shop.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I didn't want to forget him.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Recasting couch director or city? Joe has something.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Oh, almost like Departed type character. Departed. Is he too old?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Casey Affleck would have been really good. That's a good one.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I have a director for the recasting. Quentin Tarantino's crash would have been unbelievable. Oh, bro, the N-words, bro. Three hours and 30 minutes. It would have been amazing.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Nona Gaye is having sex with Brendan Fraser. That's what I'm saying. Probably in the first 20 minutes.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Thank you for not doing... I recast Crash in Boston. I was dreading that monologue. Thank you for not doing it. We're just going to keep moving.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
No. I'm not letting you do it. No. Moving on. Half-assed internet research. Crash, first Best Picture winner to be released on Blu-ray.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Haggis had a heart attack during the last part of the filming.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. I'm just making my masterpiece. This movie needs me. People have to see this. In 2015, Hollywood Reporter, they found a bunch of the Oscar voters and asked what we should do if you had to do this over again.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Brokeback Mountain won convincingly. And then I didn't really understand how this went. I'm just going to read what's written down. Newton wore special protective underwear for the assault scene because Haggis wanted it to look real from the camera's perspective for Matt Dillon to go there. I'm going to guess no intimacy coordinator in this movie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
What kind of underwear are we talking about?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Right as Matt Dillon's running up that hill, Van's like, I'm running to LA.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
It would almost have to be like an adult diaper with seven different panties in it.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Oh, shit. I'll just keep reading stuff until you tell me if it was anybody's Apex Mountain. Okay. Sandra Bullock, Brendan Fraser, LA Race Relations, undercover cops shooting each other. Terrence Howard, there's a case because Hustle and Flow came out the same year. Oh, well, that moment. Yeah, for sure. 2005, this is Apex Mountain.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Matt Dillon, no. St. Christopher statues? I don't have a lot of experience. Human trafficking? Probably not. Don Cheadle, no. Michael Pena, no. Ryan Philippe? Philippe? What would be his apex mountain? It's growing. Don Dewey Newton? No.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Probably not. It's just too many people. It's too much schtick.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
What is her apex mountain?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Wasn't she in the first Mission Impossible movie or one of them?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
The worst one. Lorenz Tate, no. Ludacris. It's one of the fast movies. I don't know which one.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Jennifer Esposito, no. No, it's Paul Haggis'. It's Paul Haggis', yes.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Paul Haggis', definitely, yes.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
One more break, and then we're going to do Cruiser Hanks. Cruise or Hanks? And what role would you want them to play in this movie, if you pick? Hanks kills as Brendan Fraser's character.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
He added the hat last year. He keeps adding wrinkles.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Has Hanks ever had sex in a movie? Other than Forrest Gump?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Bet that never happened in my class. Yeah. Got it. Hank's kills in that role. Can I test drive Tom Cruise in the Matt Dillon character for you guys?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Tom Cruise... Helping out the dad. You get the Magnolia angle yet again. With like Tom Cruise's weird dad issues. But then angry like evil Tom Cruise as the cop. But then Tom Cruise trying to save somebody from a fire. I mean, my vote's Cruise.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Because you could also put Cruz in the William Fichtner character, just have him come in for one scene.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
We forgot to do Apex Mountain for Church of Scientology.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Haggis wins the Oscar. Cruise is jumping on Oprah's couch.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
This is great. This is a movie Spielberg would have tried to take on, though. I feel like he easily could have. I could see him doing it.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
But that's the thing. It's like safe edgy. But yeah, Scorsese's the answer. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? One best actor this year, too.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I'd throw him in the Matt Dillon role as well. I think he'd do it. I'd like to see evil cop Philip Seymour Hoffman.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
It'd be funny if he played it like talented Mr. Ripley, Freddie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Just coming in hot. The Van Lathan Award. Did this movie need more black people? Perfect. Nope. We're good. Picking nets. Can't wait. Wow. Where do you begin?
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I don't know how you pick nits inside of this movie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I know she's a horrible person, but you just start screaming with the locksmith like 40 feet away. Nobody does that. She's angry.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Nobody would ever do that.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Matt Dillon runs into Thandui Newton. Twice in like three days? Yeah, and Ryan Phillippe runs... He arrests her and then it just happens to be there when she has a car crash in Los Angeles?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
So that's the thing. So we ride until the wheels fall off. The nostalgia thing, one of you mentioned, which I thought is an interesting point because this did make me nostalgic for this pre-social media era of movies like this where people kind of didn't know any better and they just went for it. And there wasn't like a fear of a backlash because it was much harder to have backlash back then.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Pick up Don Cheadle, his brother. LA's a gigantic city. You could literally go- You could go 10 years without seeing the same person again.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I'm walking everywhere. Phil's always walking.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
It's only really worked once.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Playing by Heart with Angelina Jolie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
It all comes together in the end. It's like, whoa, they all know each other. Gina Rowland.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Wouldn't Matt Doan just let her die in the car? In real life, probably. But remember, he's... He's like, oh shit, this is the lady who could probably get me kicked off the force in a five-year lawsuit. I should just kind of let her go.
The Rewatchables
‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
She's catching it. She's like, he's just walking away. Yeah, that's a better movie. So when Terrence Howard gets carjacked and drives off, And the cops see something happening, right? And then they decide something's happened to the car. They chase it. Chase it to this driveway where he's driving erratically. They don't walk toward the car.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
They don't check out, make sure nobody else is in the car.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. It's the old slouch method. It's a felony stop at that point. So on a felony stop... You're at least putting him in handcuffs for two minutes and you're at least checking to see if anyone else is in the car. Oh, no. You're talking about after. Yeah, when they have him, you know, when Ryan Phillippe comes in.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah, they're checking the car. Well, hold on.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Back then we had newspapers. We had early internet websites. Yeah. We had like deep, deep message boards. No, I'm just saying like there was less of a mechanism to kind of respond in anger to a movie like this. So this was a slow build and I don't think it really, I don't think people really got pissed off about this movie until the Oscars.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Don Cheadle gets into a car accident right where his brother had just been killed. What are the odds of that? One in a kajillion?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
And gets in the car accident. The white van just has keys in it for 12 hours. Nobody just takes it. Sure. The Chop Shop guy knew exactly what to do in an unexpected human trafficking situation.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Thomas Jefferson with this shit.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Are Chop Chop guys secretly the most evil people on the planet? That's one of the lessons from Crash. They're actually supposed to be kind of cool. That's what I thought. Yeah. Any other nitpicks?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. We mentioned earlier it became a stars TV show in 2008. I think there's a prestige version of this show. That you could try to make. I wouldn't want to watch it. But I think it makes more sense in that context than a movie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
That's part of the show. Cord Jefferson's Crash. Cord Jefferson's Crash. But it's a comedy? Yep. Oh. After he does Entourage, he does Entourage. After he does Entourage, he does it.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
He just does it. It's like when Gus Van Sant did Psycho as a shot-by-shot remake.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Cord just does a shot-by-shot Crash remake.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Berg, Sam Jackson? No. Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in The Firm?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
He must have been filming another movie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
You know what that's going to mean, Cheadle? Heartbreak. I think Wayne Jenkins is the Matt Dillon. We won't do a Wayne Jenkins impersonation without CR, but Wayne Jenkins in the Matt Dillon role would have been pretty interesting. You don't want to try? No. Okay.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
No. Just one Oscar, who gets it? I mean, it got three Oscars, but I think in retrospect... I'd probably say Terrence Howard for Best Supporting Actor. If I had to give an Oscar.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
When it won Best Picture and you can go back and watch it on YouTube, Nicholson's the, he's the presenter and he does it and he reads it and he's like, the winners crash and he goes, whoa. And, You hear the crowd, the crowd, which I don't know if I've ever heard this at the Oscars. They make like a what the fuck noise. They're like, oh, it's like one of those noises.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I thought Fast 7, he got robbed.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Probably unanswerable questions. If this movie had a black director but was the exact same movie, what happens?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I'm saying it's the exact same movie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Every single moment is the same, but the director's black, whatever. They'd run him out of town. I'm telling you, man.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I think that had more to do with Brokeback Mountain and where the country was in 2005.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. And old white dudes who were probably 70% to 80% of the vote at this point.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
We're probably doing it this year for rewatchables. It doesn't seem as crazy now when you're watching it as it did in 05, that there was a mainstream movie that was going for some of the stuff it was going for. Now it's like 20 years later, it's like, of course they made this movie.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Well, I think that's why everybody was shocked. I think it was a heavy favorite. Yeah.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Now if you're redoing Oscars, it's one of the first ones you redo.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
What else was nominated that year? Well, Munich was nominated that year. Capote.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Capote was the other one, yeah. And then Good Night, Good Luck, which was not a good one. So not an incredibly strong Best Picture year, right? No. But Brokeback should have won. It's crazy that it didn't win. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? It's probably the fortified underwear would be my pick for the not want. Game-worn fortified underwear. No, thank you.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Probably dumped that one. The St. Christopher statue.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Christopher statue. The most notable thing. Coach Finstock wore a best life lesson. Everyone's a racist. But also...
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
And that was when this movie, it turned.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I was going to say American History X, but Grand Canyon's perfect. Grand Canyon. Because that's like the previous generation of this movie. The kind of same version. Uh-oh, we took a wrong turn coming back from the Laker game. Oh, my God. Oh, no. That movie's funny, too.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Mary McDonnell finds a baby?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
It's our baby. I fuck with Grand Canyon. Who won the movie? I guess Paul Haggis. Yeah, Paul Haggis won.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Craig, had you ever seen this movie? No. I've never been more interested. I had heard about it, certainly. So you knew. You were a little prejudiced by what you had heard.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Well, there was a thing. Brokeback was the only movie to win PGA, DGA, and WGA and not win Best Picture Oscar. Yeah. Which, by the way, Anora, we're taping this before the Oscars, but Anora is the next one that's on that.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Oh, you know what it is? He won't be making a Scientology movie. We've learned that during this pod.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Craig, I guarantee you, they were so thrilled. I know, I bet. I think, I really think it's hard to overstate how weird 2005 was. Well, I could see how in the moment. Just as a stretch in society.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
I thought 9-11 in some ways brought people a little closer. It did. And then Tom Brady and the Patriots started winning Super Bowls and that brought people closer. It did.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Well, but the O.J. verdict starts it, right? The way everybody reacted to the O.J. verdict was illuminating in a lot of different ways. And that kind of led toward... But then by the late 90s... I don't know. It felt like things had... Oh, we were... You know why? Could be kind of moved on.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Joe Francis, girls were going wild. Bruh. 2 a.m. 2 a.m.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Wrestling was the best it's ever been. Wrestling, the attitude era. The 90s was fun. The 90s was hell of fun. There's nothing better than the 90s. The movies were great. Nothing better than the 90s.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah, it was inevitable.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Yeah, that's Crash. That was the rewatchables.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
You can watch us every week on Spotify now on video. Watch us on Ringer Movies. You can see these two in House of R and Midnight Boys. Midnight Boys, yep.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Cue, cue. Wait, did you guys say that? I said beep, beep.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
And higher learning as well. Yeah. Thank you both.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
He loved it. And then I had a second, he went back.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can find us on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can also find us every episode now on video on Spotify. You can see our beautiful hosts, Joanna Robinson, Van Lathan, myself. We don't normally do this. We usually do movies we love and we can't stop rewatching, but it's the Oscars.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
The first hit piece I remember heading into an Oscars, remember reading, was my favorite writer, William Goldman. He wrote a Saving Private Ryan review before that Oscars, and he just fucking torpedoed it. And it was great. And it was like, oh my God, I can't. And it was kind of like, it was a glimpse of where the internet was probably going with some of this stuff. But by 05...
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
some of the crash pieces, they're really funny to reread. People were on it pretty early. This movie made people mad. I also like that movies like this exist where people either get super mad or super defensive about it because now, where do we have this in movies in the same way anymore? We don't because everybody kind of runs and huddles to their corner. Everyone's in their little spheres.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
You're saying the fantasy people?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
They're on Letterboxd logging that they saw Amelia Perez?
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
Cheeto gave it real credibility for me when it came out. The fact that he was a producer.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
And just at the point of the career he was at, I just really liked him. He'd been in stuff I liked. And the fact that he was in it was like, oh, maybe. But it was even in 05 pretty notable that it was a white director. And that's something in 2025, there's no way a white director makes this movie. I think it's zero chance. No, it's interesting.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
And we're going to do Crash, which won the 2006 Best Picture Award. And it's unbelievable. And it's next.
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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson
And I think it was like 12 hours later.
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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He liked to get wet.
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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
People were like, yeah, fuck yeah. Yeah.
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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I would go for Halle Berry as Lara as the ex-wife. That'd be cool. Yeah.
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‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre
What does that have to do with anything?
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‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre
I think it's going to be a bit inhibiting.
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‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre
Well, I don't imagine you can jump her from behind just because all of a sudden you get excited by the way she bends down to pick up the soap. You remember that, don't you?
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‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre
Of course you do. Life's a series of trade-offs. Isn't that what you tell yourself?
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‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre
I wouldn't want you to. That's exactly why I can trust you. You have a lot more to lose than I do.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
How does Boise State get it by? I don't get it.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Van, did you see that conclave?
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I don't know if you know me, I got a lot of followers on Letterboxd. I saw the brutalist.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You know, like, that's not inspiring.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I just want to get myself a big duster. Want to go try on some leather jackets? Yeah.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's too long. It's too long. It's too much reading.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
A huge moment in any father's life, but you've got half a dozen South Pacific Islander linemen and a cop killer named Ray Merriman by your side. It's not a prom night we will soon forget. Oh.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
We could have just been doing this for two hours.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Right. Tom Cruise saying it would be just as crazy. We come here for the ass.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I didn't know I was watching Kramer vs. Kramer! Don't you know about having a burner phone for strippers? I hope you had a prenup. You better get a mediator in here, Big Dog, or you're going to be paying alimony a whole fucking time!
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He says it so much cooler than that.
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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You do it. Do your version.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's old. Look, I will say that we reinvented the lightsaber battle in the prequel trilogy. Like, obviously, Ray Park.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Doing flips. But Lucas even used story to explain that. He goes, there were thousands of Jedi. It was a more elegant time, like Obi-Wan says, and they fought with more flair and more style. Seven different styles of lightsaber defense.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But that's the future, not the past.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Now these guys haven't used a saber in a long time.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Okay. Oh, man. So you don't think Chewie deserved a medal? I mean, if it's a participation trophy, we can give it out. Not only do I think that Chewie deserved a medal, I think the droids should have got medals, too.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
There's a cutaway to the droids, and they're just like... They all shined up, but I think they should have got medals, too. But just to let you know, the fact that Chewie didn't get a medal is a gigantic deal, and in, I think, it's Rise of Skywalker. Yeah. An abomination of a film.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Right. Yes. And they ended by giving him a medal. They gave him his medal. They gave Chewie his medal.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
First of all, he is an expert pilot. He's actually an expert shot.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's the co-pilot of the Millennium Falcon.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I don't know. Highest take. That's a great take.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The muscle, once again. I want a little more.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's what I wanted. And by the way, it is Chewbacca that Kenobi talks to. That's absolutely right. In order to get Luke and Kenobi onto the ship. He arranges the whole deal.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's between the two scenes. It's including them getting off the plane. It's the end of Top Gun. It's between these two scenes to me. I could make. Maybe, maybe an argument for the entire sequence where they're actually dressed like stormtroopers and they're rescuing Princess Leia.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's a prisoner. We're transferring him. If we're talking about Again, Chewbacca sucks. The scene that has been the most recreated, my blood's boiling, is to me the trick run. It was, to me, the most signature scene from Star Wars.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's my most rewatchable, for sure.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. What do you have for most 1977? The creatures. The fact that the creatures are not CGI, they're real, they're, you know, guys in suits, you know, all of that stuff.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The number one thing that's aged the best to me in the entire movie is Darth fucking Vader. Like, Darth Vader goes from being a cool, mysterious villain to a cultural icon that really, now, the entire franchise is oriented around. So, more than anything, I got ILM on here, Death Stars, period. They put a Death Star in something every two years. The lightsaber...
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
has become an iconic toy that everyone fucking has. It revolutionized the sword. It was like a new sword, a new take on it. But Darth Vader, to me, has become so important, not just as a villain, but as a flawed hero. Because we get so much more of his story after this that really... As much as this is about Luke, it becomes about him too.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And now that might be the most recognizable Star Wars thing that exists. Even the voice of James Earl Jones, completely recognizable.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I love that guy. And he is, he's so certain and he doesn't know who he's fucking with. He's but the first one to be choked out because after Tarkin is dead, Vader's fucking on. He's off the leash for the next couple of movies choking out everyone.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Is there more of the Darth Vader meat bone? What I will say it does, though, is to me, it does have a big hand or plays a big part, should I say, in investigating the motivations of our villains. Because midway through the next movie, or not midway through the next movie, at some point in Jedi, Luke is going to start thinking, not that I have to defeat this guy, but that I have to save him.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And that kind of changes the trajectory of the entire three-film trilogy.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Greatest villain in film history to me.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And once again, you see him first because... You're kind of in his story. You know what I mean?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's really fucked up. All his shit is fucked up. His eyes are burned to a crisp. His ears, his eardrums are burned to a crisp. He's got no arms. He's got one leg. Nothing's inside him, just like the husk of something.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Did they actually explicitly say that?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I think I'm pretty sure that most of his opinions just burned off. Oh, man.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Axel Braun did Star Wars XXS before parody, and in that one, it was working just fine.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I saw this. So- When you first see the movie, I hadn't seen it before, when you first watch the movie, you go, well, he's treating Leia like shit, right? But Leia has a termination order on it, and there's a way to watch the movie to where Darth Vader keeps stalling.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Dylan's body language, not the greatest there. See why he was up against a bigger lion.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, like, Vader's gotta be up there, right? So Reggie White is up there. Yeah. Reggie White.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Those guys are out there. Mo Vaughn. Mo Vaughn. Oh, great one. Is way up there. But like as wrestlers go, like Andre Giant could move around. I don't know. I'm talking like kind of stubbier fat guys who actually have some. Earthquake, Tubboat, those guys.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Here's what aged the best.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Their chemistry is undeniable.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Bang! Luke, looking up at the two moons is, I mean... Is it Two Moons or Two Suns? It's Two Moons, Two Suns. I think it's Two Suns. It's Two Suns. The Two Suns. It's a cool shot. It's a great shot. And also, you're reminded that you're somewhere else. You're somewhere otherworldly.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But then, I've always been partial to the destruction of Alderaan. Just the first time we see the Death Star in action, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, boom, and then watching a planet be destroyed.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Like, so high stakes.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Really rendered well.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Well, do you think they know 3PO and R2-D2 from before?
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I couldn't think of one. Okay. I legitimately tried to think of one.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I couldn't disagree more, but I'm interested to hear the takes. Not that good of an actor.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
No, it's great, because by the time Jedi comes around, he has got a full grasp on Luke. And once again... Flawless 3 movie arc. All I'd say is if you look at where the characters are, you have two characters in Leia and Solo that are incredibly sure of themselves. Solo is the most sure of himself character maybe in movie history. And Leia is saddled with all this responsibility. She's a princess.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Right, so during... Droid bias. Well... During, well, not the Clone Wars, but prior to the Clone Wars. See, this is why I can't be a Star Wars fan.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
She's a double agent for the Resistance. She knows what she's doing. Luke's performance is off kilter because he never really feels like he is where he wants to be. And so there's a, there's a tension in a back and forth that kind of kids go through. He is young. She's his, the same age as twin sister, but experience has aged her up a lot.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So he's annoying because he always has questions because he's not confident because he's sometimes too earnest. I think in that, that Hamill plays it pretty well.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
For sure. He enters Jedi like Vader, talking about how powerful he is and choking people out. But he's got to get there. He goes through so much that hardens him to life.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
We don't know what kind of cantina they're in. Yeah. Like cruising? Oh, my God. You guys are assuming with your heteronormative brains.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
We don't know what kind of cantina they're in.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
They're playing the cute little music. We don't know what's going on.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Hold on.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But the original, when the Trade Federation, when it first started, everybody that they were fighting, it was all droids. So maybe they didn't like droids. They didn't want droids around.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And by the way, one of them is giving you as much sex appeal as possible. I'm just saying. God, I'm milfy. Yeah.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I mean, it depends, right? The stormtroopers are supposed to have some sort of armor.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Not really.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So many drinks they need to turn over.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
By the way, which I'm coming back to in my hottest take, but the incest is the stuff that... It never really gets over the line, though.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
There's not that much Vader in the film. I could have used some more Vader. Lecter, 16 minutes. Vader, 12.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I'm going to disappoint a lot of people probably. Okay. There's two things that can be true at the same time. One is that I understand... First of all, they answered the question of the film kind of, sort of, with Lando Calrissian coming in in the next movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Perhaps. I understand that... particularly in fantasy properties, seeing Black characters is reassuring in a couple of different ways. One, it's reassuring because you don't want to think that you're living in a world where when white people fantasize that there are no Black people. Like that in and of itself is like odd, right?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
At the same time, I don't think I'm, I don't think that I'm in a huge minority when I say sometimes I don't want to think about it. And when I'm watching Star Wars, particularly, what I want to do is think about a world where all of the handcuffs and the societal barriers that exist. All the baggage. That I don't have to consider it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I understand why we have to consider it, but when I'm watching a movie, I'm really not thinking about that because I'm in another galaxy, in another world, and I'm having a good time being there.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Well... I actually want to use my flex category time for my hottest take, actually. Point of order. This movie is a lot.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Okay. Thank you. Okay. So this is the deal. This movie is the trilogy, not the movie, but the trilogy is a lot better if Luke and Leia mistakenly fuck in this movie. Okay. Okay. The Van Lathan did this movie to be more incestuous? If Luke and Leia mistakenly fuck in this movie, not mistakenly because they didn't want to fuck. And that's why he goes to Dagobah? And he actually banishes himself.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He feels it. And then think about Luke and Leia are fucking and Obi-Wan is in the back. No, Luke. Like slow motion? Like Obi-Wan knows. He's trying to tell Luke not to do it. but the dick is just too strong, the dark side of the dick. And Skywalker just wants it. He's got to have it. Leia's into it. There's a connection. They don't know what the connection is.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Of Peru or her. Luke is obviously a virgin. He's asking for permission to go to Tosche Station for power converters. Like, you're 17, just fucking go. You know what I'm saying? So if they fuck and then they have to deal with that guilt, Luke is maybe more apt to the dark side. The whole trilogy is better. A little darker if they mistakenly fuck in the Millennium Falcon.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Because it's central to Han Solo's character.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I won an Oscar. I'm not such a bad pilot myself. That's one that stands out when he's mad at Han. I'm not such a bad pilot myself. Shut the fuck up, kid.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's chasing Starman.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a ton of shit.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It was Richard Dreyfuss. Richard Dreyfuss.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Richard Dreyfuss is hysterical.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
They change it to where Greedo takes a shot at Han.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And then Han kills Greedo.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's funny. If you want to give it to Vader, Vader's presence is so big in the movie, I didn't even consider Vader. That's actually probably it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I have him on my list. I have CGI Jabba that they stuck into the movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You're really doing some great linguistics in this fight.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I hate that they do it, but it's such a big deal to have that character in the movie for one scene. Then I went with CGI Jabba, but... If Vader is eligible, it's got to be Vader, right?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I like Mark, but think about it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And this is the thing, right? This is, to me, emblematic of what happens to something when it is consumed by the masses. Solo has already been established as a good guy. He goes from being a scoundrel and someone who only thinks about himself to being a good guy. We don't need to make him a good guy at his core.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
His character arc is that he finds value in his friends and in his relationships and then becomes- He comes back at the end. That's the value of it. We don't need him to always at his core have been a good guy. He is the type of guy that says, oh, you're here for this. I recognize my opportunity. I will kill you before you have the opportunity to kill me.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
As a director, it certainly is because the next three movies to the point of people... To the issue that people had with his directing style, the next three movies, the performances are wooden. They're not very well directed. It's just a fact.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But you can almost... I mean, like, whine. He just gets more powerful and relevant as the deal, as Star Wars kind of gets bigger.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I don't know. Lore starters? This starts- Fictional mythologies. Fictional mythologies. I mean, I'm not talking about books, obviously, all kinds of stuff. But as far as movies that start incredible lore, you have The Terminator, you have The Matrix has some great lore, but this has spawned a world that's way bigger than anything else. Mark Hamill, definitely.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I liked her in Loverboy. Remember that one?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Field of Dreams, Coming to America.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Mufasa.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He just became the fucking coolest older actor. It seems like he's too important for a voice to be his apex mom. Moonlight Grom!
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Centric movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Absentee fathers? This or He Got Game? He Got Game is up there. But absentee fathers, you don't know what your son is doing. He comes around, he's trying to fuck over you now. You don't even know. Absentee dads? As a movie premise? Well, it's not a movie premise, but when you look at it now... No, I'm saying for... It's probably Empire, then.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's a good one, too. Just absentee dads. This is the greatest absentee dad story ever. Because by the time Vader comes back to Luke, Luke is now a first-round draft pick. And he wasn't before. When he was just a little dude on Tatooine, he didn't give a fuck about me. Now I got the Force. Now I got another dad in my life who cares, right? Obi-Wan has come on, you know. I got friends.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I got all of this now. You want me? No, that's not how it works.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
His name is Greedo, though.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Craig is cooking.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's the Apex Mountain of Apex Mountains. Yeah, Craig is cooking right now. I'm surprised you didn't think of that. The Apex Mountains? Yeah. I'm Craig's Obi-Wan. Sean is Jack Sanders. Craig is actually a perfect Luke. Craig, you got a lot of Luke to you, brother.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
We should go down to Watts. We should go down to Watts. That's what we should have had in for this. Like the actual... Star Wars and the Star Wars pod in Watts? In Watts. We should have gone down and did it with the Grape Streets. They'd have been... I'm going to move on.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I'm going to try.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I've already done too much.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Or another theory that R2-D2 is Force-sensitive. What does that mean? Are there any droids that have the Force? That in some way there's a theory, there's a fan theory that in some way R2-D2 is Force sensitive because there's a lot of stuff that happens around R2-D2 that we kind of don't explain why it works out the way that it does. That the Force loves him or there's some kind of connection.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The whole thing doesn't work. If the stormtroopers are better at their jobs. If they can aim. Yeah. They're legendarily in conflict.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Isn't outer space just infinite? But we're in one galaxy, though. So there's a Star Wars galaxy that's outside of that galaxy.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Of this galaxy.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So there's the galaxy, and there's the outer rim of the galaxy, and then there's stuff outside of there that people don't really travel to. So how big is the galaxy? Pretty big. They have hyperspace, so they can jump around. They can travel back and forth. They can travel at light speed.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I thought we were going to talk about something different about the outfit. That wasn't a nitpick.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Maybe he just made the one movie. When they gave the sides to Harrison Ford and to them and the reveal was in there that Vader is Luke's dad, Harrison Ford said back to George Lucas, did you just make that up on the plane? Like, did you just make that up? Because they were trying to keep it a secret.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
When they gave them the thing that that was happening, there are people who think that the fact that he had all of this stuff sketched out is actually not true. It doesn't make a difference now, but there are people who think that that's not the case.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's already 2-0 against him. Well, it finishes 2-1. It finishes 2-1. With a loud 1. I am still, after all of these years of being a Star Wars fan, unclear as to why Kenobi did it. Still unclear. Because he has to do it for Luke to fulfill his destiny?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I guess my thing is they would have escaped anyway because all of the stormtroopers... Because they were letting them go. Actually, the fact that he gets cut down is what makes the stormtroopers turn around because Luke then freaks out and they go, oh my God, they're getting away. So I've never... I've had this conversation so many times. He didn't have to die.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Like, actually, he didn't have to die.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, I think he knew, like, I'm too old. Well, he hasn't been able to do it two times before. He didn't have two chances.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's not. Grand Admiral Thrawn... did not want the resources going towards the Death Star. I was just telling Ben to feed the dog. No, no, no. No, I'm not doing it. No, do it. It's disrespectful. No, seriously. Grand Admiral Thrawn did not want the Death Star project to go forward. He had a plan for an advanced TIE fighter that he thought would have been a much more...
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
pertinent use of the, or appropriate use, shall I say, of the Empire's resources, and that the Death Star was a waste of money and time and resources, and that it would lead to their ruin. And he was right. Grand Admiral Thrawn is the blue guy with the red eyes.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And now you're fucking like, oh yeah, I'm all Jedi. Speaking of that, how much time on that equipment did Luke have? I know, they were like, he's a good bush pilot. On the X-Wing, yeah. He's just up there, full uniform, with the rest of the Air Force.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Except I know a lot of people in the Star Wars universe. You know who you are. I've been begging for the all black Star Wars movie. And let me tell you why it should be made. To piss the fucking people off on Twitter, man. Just piss them off. They get mad every time there's one black person in a Star Wars movie. Fucking do Star Wars Ghana. You know what I'm saying? I'm serious. They get so mad.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
the weapon sets the stakes of the movie yeah also look at the sheer shock and horror on her face when he goes ready the weapon system fire when the fire will and would you say you're far too trusting yeah fire will what and then she has to watch everyone her family everybody she's ever known blown up to be fair though she gets over it pretty quick yeah
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
By the way, I know people who are very high up in the Star Wars thing, and I've told them, just make an all-black Jedi trooper. I'm talking about Star Wars with a Z. It's just Lando and Mace Windu. Lando, Mace Windu, all of their people do the whole black Star Wars movie. It would be dope. It would be super dope. There's a planet with nothing but white people.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Why couldn't there be a planet with nothing but black people?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's the only thing. Of all of these things, it's the only thing they haven't done. Sequel's been done. Prequel's been done. Prestige has been done. The only thing they haven't been done, the true frontier that they haven't gone to, Star Trek, is the all-black cast.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
We don't know that he doesn't. He might be a hider. He's a Wookiee, and so there are many, many Wookiees.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Ooh, easy. Sarah Connor.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Two.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I came across time for you, Sarah. Sarah Connor. Princess Leia. Mm-hmm. I'm going to throw a new addition in there. Zendaya.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
In Dune 2.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You're not into it?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So when we say sci-fi, are we talking about the entire realm of sci-fi? Yeah. Okay. So do Marvel movies count as well?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
If Marvel movies count, I got Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's an all-time white girl right there.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
If I was going to do Blade Runner, though, I'd actually do Sean Young.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Oh, Einhorn is Finkle. That's what I'm saying.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But Ellen Ripley.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Hans Blaster would be cool.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Hans Blaster would be very cool. But it's Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber, though. Can I make the case for the thing? Wait, no. The red one. No. No, no, no, no, no. Luke has Anakin Skywalker's lightbulb.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Well, no, no, no. So I would still take Anakin Skywalker's lightbulb.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Well, there are three lightsabers in the movie. There's Vader's. There's Obi-Wan's, which we don't really know what happens to it. I'm assuming Vader takes it for a trophy or something like that. I felt like Luke could have grabbed that before he... He's across that whole... He's getting shot at by Stormtrooper.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, so it's there. So I'm assuming Vader takes it as a trophy, whatever. But then there's the other one. Which lightsaber would you take? Of all the three, if you had to have a piece of memorabilia?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I have Denis Villeneuve's Dune. The first one or the second one? The first one. Sand Planet, kind of same thing. I like to go outside of the Pantheon with the double feature choice.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Oh, go full Lucas.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
What do you think? It's got to be Lucas. That's a compelling argument for Harrison Ford. But I don't know that anyone in this industry has won any single movie as much as George Lucas has won this movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Can I make the case for Aunt Beru?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So Bond has some good video games, but they don't compare to the Star Wars games in totality. Because you have Jedi Fallen Order. You have Battlefront. You have the original arcade game where you were in the TIE Fighter, right? Then you have the one for Super Nintendo, Super Star Wars. Like, probably, yeah. That came from a movie?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Probably, yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's interesting. Essentially, like, we talk about Star Wars and I talked to a friend about it. He goes, essentially the movie is about like fathers and sons. It's very, it's not really, it's a complicated lore, but not a complicated story.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I like, but I tell you one thing, That is a fantastic ride, and it was one of the best experiences I've had as an adult man. Not doing commercials, but have you been on Rise of the Resistance?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You're in Star Wars, Bill. You're in it. They got stormtroopers everywhere. You're inside of Star Wars. We all went as a Ringerverse family.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Did they close it?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But they closed. When we did Star Wars Celebration a couple of years ago, they had a place where just the media could go. And me and Mal and the Midnight Boys, we wrote it a bunch of times. How'd we do? I think you did a great job.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The questions that you're asking, by the way, about Chewbacca, we've asked. We just asked them in like 92.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
How dare you talk about Chewbacca this way?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's been hiding it this whole time. You know? What? What the fuck? Why are you treating Chewie this way? Chewie's the muscle. You gotta have him.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's like... A presence I've not felt since... What is this? Yeah. Feeling of... Remember, that's his master. That's his teacher. They're locked in the Force. And this is their third duel that they've had. There's Mustafar. Then there's the duel that happened in the Obi-Wan movie. We don't recognize that. I agree. And so this is the third duel that they have.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But this is a guy who's been training them since he was a little boy. So they're connected in the Force.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
They're still on journeys. Vader is still on a journey. Vader has a journey that was outlined for him and for the Emperor. The lore is so dense here. But for him to... And Obi-Wan actually has a journey as well. He makes his decision to become one with the Force so that he can become a Force ghost and all that stuff.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So them facing each other is a separate battle than the one that's happening between the Empire and Rebellion. A little pro wrestling in this.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
They're going to get squashed. Yeah. It seems like every time you're so happy that 3PO comes through. Because they're so elated. Yeah. They don't get squashed.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And then Chewie's like, Stop! 3PO gets such a raw deal because a lot of Star Wars fans don't like 3PO. Really? It's kind of annoying. He's annoying, but he's got some good lines. R2 is a hero. R2 is a hero.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Come on, you're doing so well.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Like Draymond with no flagrants or anything. And he always comes through. He's brave. He fights. He's resourceful. Hold on, he's a brave little droid.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And so when you watch the film now, he's annoying, but I'm watching him. I'm going, let him go. Let him go. That's Luke fucking Skywalker. You don't know what he's supposed to become. You guys are muting his light. To that point.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's right. Let him go. When Uncle Owen kind of gets burnt to a crisp, I'm kind of like, all right, cool. Now the movie can start. You know what I mean? Right. So all of that's happening and he's bratty, but it's a part of the most perfect three film arc to me in movie history.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I'm going to dig around in your past. Don't let me find out you were like William Zabka, 80s, cool kid, karate kid.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Frank Herbert was pissed off about the fact that he thought the movie was too derivative.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But also... a demonstration that even though we're telling the same stories that invoke the same emotions, it is how you tell them. It is the world that you put people in. It is the ideas and the concepts that you're able to create when you're telling these stories. You have a new, not a new form of government, but you have a new style, a new look.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You have the technology aspect of this, which was revolutionary in and of itself, right? You have all the things that you take to take a, that you need, should I say, to take a classic And making it into something that people have never seen. Can I ask you a question?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I see how we've changed. Yeah. So during that time, you trusted the audience more. All right? Door opens, seven-foot... black droid, black in color and in voice, rest in peace, James Earl Jones, pops in, this guy is evil, the death march plays, you know, it's fucking on, right? When you say the Clone Wars, the audience then is going, oh my God, Clone Wars, Clone Wars, like, and then,
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The audience now, we're like, what are you talking about, right? So we kind of demand this interrogation of story that is good. It makes us more sophisticated moviegoers. But it also sometimes, and I can say this about Star Wars fans even now, puts the handcuffs on what filmmakers are able to do. Because it makes you want to roll out the story faster than what it is that they're giving it to you.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
This movie, the pace is a little all over the place, but it's expecting you... To actually do a little work and putting yourself in the world. And it's giving you enough visually at that time, which I'm assuming we hadn't seen too much stuff like this.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Right. So it's expecting that you'll be wowed by what it is that you're seeing. And you'll sort of succumb to or surrender to what's on the screen. And by the time you know it, you're on a wild ride.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Okay. It's already begun. One of the single most important moments of my life is watching Star Wars with my father. It actually opened up my mind to an entire, realm of cinematic possibility. Being that deep in space, all of the lore that goes on around it, all the mystery. When you first see it, you're wondering what's happening, what's happening, what's happening.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's got so many different ways of saying this. And the most interesting thing about it is this. By the time we get to the point that George can tell the story that he wants to tell with the technology at his fingertips, he makes three movies that aren't very good. And it's interesting because...
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The prequels, which I love Revenge of the Sith, by the way. Just came out, made $25 million.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, I love it. I like Sith. I like Sith.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, they're not very good. They're deeply political, like almost the inverse of the first three.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I fell asleep during Phantom Menace when it first came out. I refuse to believe that it wasn't good. I lied to myself for months, and then I woke up one day.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You know what?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's good. No, it's fine. We're okay. We're okay. They're very similar.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So it's interesting because he talks about this all the time, and he'll have a Star Wars situation with anyone, but the constraints on the movie kind of made it what it was. Oh, yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
How do you explain some of the things that are going on? It assumes that you understand both the natural hero's arc but also that you kind of get and understand the stakes of the world. It sets you up for, for me at least, to understand all of the nerd culture stuff and all of the science fiction stuff that I will go on to love for the rest of my life.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And I thought it was bullshit at first. Like, he would say... You do four, five, and six because you didn't have what you needed to do one, two, and three, right? And one, two, and three, they're going to be hundreds of Jedi running around and all of that stuff, and you didn't have what you needed. And so technology has gotten to a point to where I can go back and actually shoot these movies now.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And I'd be like, ah, that's bullshit. I mean, maybe he didn't have the story worked out, or maybe all of this stuff about how much of this stuff that he had ready and planned is just legend, but he continues to prove it because he won't stop tinkering with the movie. He tinkers with it and tries to get it closer, tries to perfect perfection, and actually kind of doesn't get there with doing it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Not just the job thing.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He don't got a... Oh, he's married again, right?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Lucas got him a... You know what I'm saying?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
What did you say? I'm not like, that's what I'm saying. It's like that ended up itself. Once I learned that, I was like, I see where the soul comes from. I see where the light comes from. He's well, the force, the force is well taken care of.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
What is he saying in the duel? I am the master now.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Where's my camera? Shout out to Ryan Clark. So look, I'll say this. I gotta disagree with Sean. So, there's a religion, okay, that my grandmother was a part of at one point. I was not allowed to watch Star Wars in my grandmother's house for a little while. And I remember, there's a religion, I won't talk about the religion, but that...
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
There was a videotape that you watched when you were getting into the religion. My grandmother was a part of this religion. And they were talking about all of these things that were bad in society. And there's a part of it where Star Wars comes up. And it says that George Lucas believes in the Force for real.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Seven years old.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And he thinks that the Force is a substitute for a belief in God and for a belief in religion. And when I was over at my grandmother's house for a little while, she's no longer with the religion, I could not watch Star Wars. And I remember, it's so funny that you would say that.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Back in the day, she deconstructed to me how Star Wars is actually a movie that is giving religious dogma to people, telling you that you'll be powerful if you believe in this thing. Darth Vader is the devil and Luke Skywalker is Jesus Christ. And she was doing it from trying to like, not poison me, but trying to save my soul. But she was also telling me why the movie was so resonant for me.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I took movies. Seen any movies? I took Marie Rout to see Phantom Menace like the third time. I saw it. And at the beginning of the movie, both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, they force dash into the area where they're trying to get. And she goes, how can they move so fast? And my blood started boiling. Yeah. Is that a hot date? It was a hot date. My blood started boiling. I'm like, they're using the force.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
She goes, what's the force? I said-
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You have that 50K.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I think to split the baby there is our appetites were expanding, period. There were more ways for us to experience things. Home video was having a boom. There was more space and opportunity to build these big multiplexes, right?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's in the 80s. So what you're seeing is that People want more stuff. Cable television is starting to dominate. We could talk about almost any industry that we love. We could talk about the NFL. We could talk about the NBA. The appetites for these things were met by people who could translate them culturally.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Wrestling, porn. All of that. Like, in Boogie Nights, they talk about what it was like going from film to video in porn and how that exploded the industry.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But it depends on the weight. So this is what I would say. I can't say that... You're wrong, but it depends on the way that you look at it, right? Because I could make an argument.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's got a different way of doing things. I could make an argument that there is no Axel Braun or Kevin Moore. These are porn directors, by the way. That these guys don't exist if there's not an explosion in pornography. I could make an argument that if movie studios don't become corporations, then the smaller films that guys were taking chances on don't get made.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Are you still talking about porn or are you talking about... Either way. That because of Star Wars, there are more movies and more movies is good.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Some of its life, Coppola went through some personal tragedies that changed the way he... Wait, the pop-up's now murdered him. You know what I mean?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Like, oh!
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Nobody had sequels like that.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah, pretty smart. One of the all-time, I'm not stupid, you're stupid movies where it moves where in the moment, you think, oh, he sounds like a kid that's high on his own supply, doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. He's dumb. But either he knows something, Or he doesn't know something.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Either he is so blissfully ignorant that he goes, I'm going to do this because he doesn't understand how it can backfire. Or somewhere in the recesses of his brain, he goes, I know something about this lore and this mythology that everybody else doesn't get. And I'm willing to take less because we're talking about a half a million in 70s brand. It's a lot of cocaine.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
a lot of different types of movies.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I mean, a comeback, yes. The 80s were rough. He was in the wilderness for a while.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The 80s were tough for, we're talking about Scorsese.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
King of Common Bonds, but these movies are... He made Raging Bull after Star Wars. You know what I mean? The Last Temptation of Christ, in that particular time, talk about another movie that, down in the Bible Belt, we had, there were whole Jimmy Swagger sermons about The Last Temptation of Christ.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Louis Cypher.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Don't worry. We're not doing Angel Heart. So what I'm saying is like, I get it, but Martin Scorsese to me was still able to like, you know.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You know, when I think about the movies that were gigantic movies of the past, obviously like The Ten Commandments is a gigantic production, right? That is... a biblical epic, but that's a piece of commerce. That's something that is tapping into something that everyone in the country is behind, which is, you know, Judeo-Christian values. It's a story that everyone knows.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And you're trying to do a story that everyone knows to get them into the deal.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Mass appeal. I think what really changed was and what Star Wars might have changed was kind of what was mass appealing. Right. Because if you had all of these biblical movies before and these epics and all of these things that you would pour all of this money to, these were some of the highest grossing movies of all time.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
When you talk about making movies for kids or making science fiction pictures, maybe there was a thought that that changed the seriousness of moviemaking to making movies that were in outer space or making movies that were in the future. Or maybe it changed that.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But as far as I can remember, the films that I think about that grossed a lot of money were always big, huge films that were relatable to people.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
40 theaters initially, right? But now they understand. But in the 80s, they began to understand. Because you saw big, huge movies for kids. You saw the never-ending story, a lot of creatures, different stuff, like all the Dark Crystal stuff.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Dude, I was about to cry like 30 minutes ago. I had to stop myself. I was starting to get chill bumps talking about the movie. It's weird because you know what though? I will say this though. A lot of people listen to the stuff that we do over on The Rigorverse and it's difficult for me to sometimes... be the actual grown-up that I need to be because the nostalgia is just, it's too thick.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Like, I can't wade through it, right? I can't wade through, when I look at this, when I watch this movie for this podcast, I have the exact same feeling as I did when I first saw it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But never quite this way. George does something. Every couple of scenes... he gives you something cuddly. Because when you think about it, the first scene is Vader brutalizing somebody, right? Like Vader is... He kills like a dozen people and chokes one guy out. Yeah, he kills a guy.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
What are you doing? R2-D2, cuddly. By the time you get to, oh, well, no, Chewbacca, big cuddly guy, you want to give him a hug. He never lets you get too far away from the fact that you're safe and you're okay watching the movie. 2001 will make you like, re-examine life and the universe. And it's cold versus warm.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Even the scroll that begins with Star Wars. Now, I realize that that's something that he got from older film reel, Buck Rogers. Serials, yeah. Serials and stuff like that. Serials, Buck Rogers type of stuff. When I was a kid watching it, I just remember trying to read everything and feeling like something insanely important was being said. Yes. Something really super important is being said.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The original Roach bomb. You're reading it. Should the NBA playoffs do that?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
game six okay princess leia and then you're trying to and even that there's this majesty and this wonder to it and i know that it wasn't new but it felt you're studying like bible it's called the scroll it's like you've unfurled of something that moses read you know it's it's purposefully it's starting in the middle it's episode four you're like how did i miss the first three what happened you're like immediately the urgency of watching is instantaneous
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
In Boston, it was the Yankees?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I want to send a sequel. Why not? Let's take it to the 90s.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I don't understand. Why do I have to get dunked on? Obviously, Jon Favreau. Obviously, Dave Filoni. Those guys are definitely fruit off Lucas's tree. But you know, this movie also revived... The David Lynch Dune movie gets made because of Star Wars.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
There was scarcity as well.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Like we didn't have a lot of Star Wars material and content. Obviously they went on to be television specials and it was constantly referenced and all of that stuff. But, you know, there weren't like, there were comic books and stuff like that. But then you, until you get to expand the universe stuff and all of that stuff that we spent all of those years
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
This is what I will say is changing. Because I thought about this a lot before we got on here. So... When we talk about the dead period in Star Wars, we're talking about a point to where there's not a lot coming out and we're talking in class about the books that we're reading. Now, there's still all kinds of stuff. There's still toys and there are conventions and there are all of that stuff.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But if you want to watch Star Wars stuff on TV and movies, you have to watch the old stuff. Now, there is something that's happening that's interesting. We're starting to wonder if we're running out of stories. That is new for Star Wars. I'm saying that whatever they put out, we are going to watch it. New people are being turned on to it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
But there is something that's happening right now to where we're relitigating this exact same time that this movie is set in. There's a show that's set right now in this same time. It's telling the story in a completely different way. You want to laugh. But we're starting to wonder how much Star Wars we need.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Into that movie. When Solo came out, this was the first time that I was like, there are limits. I like Solo. But here's the thing about Solo. And what's the lead actor's name again?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's good. Yeah. That movie changed his career to me because he was on his way up. Everyone loved him. He had this personality. And then somebody asked him to be Han Solo. Somebody asked him to be Harrison Ford in the most perfect role of all time. And I don't give a fuck who you get. You can't do it. You can't do it.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
reading and then they just said doesn't exist after hours and hours and hours of reading it, still feel a way about that. You had to make the mythology up in your head. You had to wonder how was this a big deal? You had to think about what the Clone Wars were, like how they fought, what a Jedi looked like when a Jedi was 25. We only knew old Jedis and then baby Jedis.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So there is a part of Star Wars that every Star Wars fan has to come to terms with that cannot be done like the way it was done in the past. And I think people are having a hard time coming to terms with that.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
We never knew a Jedi in his prime. You had to think about all of these variables because It wasn't given it to you yet. We were still in the baby stages of how gigantic the universe would become. And that sort of gooshed your imagination to fill in the gaps of the stuff that you hadn't seen but wanted to see.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
That's why David's going four times in two weeks. Back to Sean's point about that first shot. You see the first shot. The Rebel Cruiser is trying to outrun the Star Destroyer. I thought to myself watching it back, you guys must have lost your fucking minds.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Because even the depiction of a space battle. When the laser is coming and then it kind of dissipates, there's not really very much sound. They invented the way space battles are supposed to look. They had to invent that from scratch because we never went to the moon. That was all like, you know... made up by the government. They shot that in Burbank.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So we don't know what space is even like at this point. So we, they had to invent what space travel looked like out of nowhere. That stuff never happened.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Pew.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
There is a case. I mean, for real. When you're... Is he the goat? What? When you're looking at the Star Destroyer or the Death Star, you're wondering, I wonder what that does. I wonder what that does. I wonder what these things are. Is that a satellite? What's happening here? And those are the things that spawned decades and decades and generations of wonder and curiosity.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
You better get it right for this one. It's crucial, yeah. You better get it right.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
This is the argument. Is there a better movie role than this? I went to a bar mitzvah one time where there were two tables. It was a movie-themed bar mitzvah. And at one table, there was this guy that was Harrison Ford, and he was Indiana Jones. And at another table, there was this guy, and he was Han Solo. At that moment, I was trying to think to myself... Is this a recent bar mitzvah?
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I was thinking to myself, is Harrison Ford...
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Indiana is more important for him. Probably. I think it's his most enduring role.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Every moment, he's the coolest guy. I love Indiana Jones so much. I think he's Han Solo.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I mean, look, Indiana Jones is probably his most...
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He must have been a fucking child.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Not bad. Because here's the thing. Han has to be dashing. but not too pretty because he has to look a little rough around the edges. He has to be an asshole, but he's got to be lovable. He's got to be somebody that like a face that you can kind of forget because he's got to get past.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
There's an argument to be made, and it's just artistically, that he is the most successful person to come out of the movie, artistically.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
And he's just rocking in the hundreds doing this. You know how Harrison has the... I would say that not very many actors have that experience. to that level are you Indiana Jones or Han Solo John Williams has that is it this is it Indiana E.T. is it E.T.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
is it Superman yeah like Jurassic Park like ridiculously recognizable you I would say that it's Star Wars Eddie Murphy's Axel Foley shut up that's Faltermeyer man I'm trying to think of like if you just associate one thing with oh you're talking about what music who is Eddie Murphy yeah what's Denzel
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I don't know.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I know, but think about the fact that everyone is so memorable. Now, Donner's Superman is not as big of a movie as the rest of these movies. It's a pretty big fucking movie, but it's not. But the theme from the movie is as enduring or even more enduring than the movie itself.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I haven't seen all three. I saw The Goodbye Girl. I don't know what Turning Point even is. What is that? The Annie Hall thing is kind of nuts.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's still hard for movies like, to be honest with you, it's hard for movies like Star Wars to win the top award.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I knew that, and it jumped right out of my mind.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's the guy that kind of, in a film with a bunch of newcomers and kind of new faces, was like, okay, this is a serious movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Or... Ziering Medical in Beverly Hills.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It seems like it's higher.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Empire was the serious movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It was the movie where Star Wars grew up, where there was a defined romance in the movie between Han and Leia, where Luke...
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Where Luke has this adversity and personal crisis about who he is and how he's going to get there. And that's the movie where they went, okay, let's take all the ideas from the first one and then evolve them into a movie that is for the movie goer. That's a little bit more of a grown up version of it because it's a lot darker and there's a lot of double crossing and things that are going on.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
So they... actually kind of made empire for the guys like yourself who were probably, you know, I mean, you were still pretty young at the time, but were more serious film goers and film watchers.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
I was like, holy shit. We don't need that from him.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Star Wars is a good movie.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
It's funny. The movie is about him. It's his story. We didn't get it, though. We didn't get it. We did not know that then. Yeah. We didn't know that then. But when you watch it through that lens now, you're still watching his story and the story of his kids and the story of the entire universe. And his surrogate father.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Completely fucking confident. Every scene is like the movie is written for him. People are talking about stuff, and Han's going, that's bullshit. And you're going, what's that guy? Are we sure we should be doing the right... perfectly fast.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Yeah. He's like, I can take this down right now. And he's playing with Luke. Luke is like, what do you think of her? He's like, whatever, I try not to. And then Han sees that Luke is, you know, a little into her and he starts fucking with him a little bit. Still, a lot of spirit though. A lot of spirit.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Let's get into the double feature situation. But here's the deal. Here's what I know now that they built lore around that we didn't know then. Luke is being protected very directly by Kenobi and by his uncle, right? Yeah. Luke's call to action is mystical. The Force is calling to Luke.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
The thing that's making Luke look out at the stars, and I'm actually feeling the weight of talking about the movie. It's difficult to explain.
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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Follow the force. Rocky was good too. I'm getting chills. Luke is being called to something more because it's his birthright.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Until he pulls the glasses off.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But then... So you basically... When Apollo is narrating all this stuff of like, I don't want Bob Justice or whoever the fuck he's going to fight. Like that's the only thing that kind of keeps this movie going for a while. Cause otherwise it's just people wandering around in the dark, you know, like it's.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And how he doesn't train hard enough. Exactly.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
What are you up to? He's like the Roadrunner and the Coyote now. Yeah. I make The Watch. Oh, great. A lot of good TV lately. Twice a week. There's some great television on.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And he's conducting a little bit of a symphony. It's Philly, they're going to go for this Italian guy, Columbus, the Bicentennial. He's orchestrating a story.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, the Rainmaker hits almost.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And I think also, I mean, I don't remember. I'd have to go back and look, but like, I don't know that Damon and Affleck
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
would have said no if they were like we're gonna make this script but like these two giant movie stars are gonna be in you guys get paid for the script like I think they may have been like hey we're keeping it moving and we're I don't know it was like Stallone was basically like I'm either writing it and starring in it or it's not getting made well there was a piece that I didn't know about how he sold it to ABC with Henry Winkler yeah because they worked together and then ABC was basically like we're changing everything thanks for the script here's some money and he convinced Winkler to give it back to him
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Well, no, and crucially, it's like Winkler has to go back to ABC, ask for the script back. They're like, no thanks.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And then he's like, I'm Fonzie. So if you don't want to fuck with Happy Days, you'll give it back or you sell it back to me at cost.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But he has suggested, or when he talks about it, I think that he has suggested that that's a career he would have happily had. That he really wanted to be a filmmaker and he thinks of himself as an artist more than... In some ways, Rocky is Golden Hand Cuffs, right?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He's returned to this franchise over the decades so many times, but... Rambo 2, Rambo... Yeah, but I wonder if he's like, I would have liked to have made more movies that are on the waterfront or whatever. Well, he definitely...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. And obviously he spends most of his career like in and out of that persona really until Copland.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I thought you might crash into Hackman at the last second here.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
How many more Stallones are still sitting? Are you scouting? Are you at the Combine looking at stolen movies?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
When you were watching this, I know you're kids, maybe you just assume, but like did you watch, were you watching this being like, and of course like Rocky's got, got a win at the end, right? Like, Oh yeah. Sports movie, like idea of like, this was bad news bears too.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
A different time in the American economy when a woman could make a living working in an exotic fish store in South Philadelphia or in Kensington.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And they're just getting fucked over. Yeah. $6, yeah. That's okay.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's also like shows making this like incredibly, I mean, maybe not self-consciously vulnerable way where he's like, look at, look at the newspaper clipping of me. And you're just like, Oh, this is a guy who has newspaper clippings about himself, like stuffed into his pockets. Like he's, he's kind of pathetic. Yeah. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So for Best Picture, definitely, I think All the President's Men should have won Best Picture. Now, you can make the argument that Taxi Driver cinematically is more importantly in movie history, but I just think All the President's Men is a perfect Oscar Best Picture movie.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I wonder how they even quantify the economic impact it had on Philadelphia. You know what I mean? They don't have points on that, but it's crazy how this is in a lot of ways a world-changing movie. Yeah, like...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I was trying to think of an example of what happens in Rocky I, and it's basically imagine if Godfather was entirely about Kate and Michael, not in New York City. Mmm. Kay and Michael just hanging out, going on dates, going to the movies, reading books to each other, checking out the Sunday Times.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You refer to Rocky as like, oh, it's like a Rocky story. This guy's coming out of nowhere. I mean, we still do it today.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But the crazy part about it is when you watch it, you would never think that. When you watch the first 45 minutes of Rocky, you're like, wow, I'm watching a really, really sad character.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
At 13. Do you need to be in puberty and care about girls a little bit or care about romantic relationships a little bit? Because otherwise you're going to be really bored for the first two turns of this. I said 13 in 1993.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Just to back up a second, if you don't get the theme song and the title sequence and the fight in the beginning of this movie, I think a lot of people would be like, what the fuck am I watching?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
because it gives you the sense if you just start with this guy like wandering through the night Philadelphia smoky yeah like I think people would be like yo I thought this was a sports movie you know but this gives you hey just so you know at some point yeah it's coming yeah and this guy can fight right and so you stick around you think you could take Spider Rico
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And at the very end, Don Corleone dies. And he's like, I have to take over the family. So it's crazy. Boxing does not happen until the last 13 minutes of this movie.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
fucking disgusting and terrible and exploitive in the whole night and i was thinking about how they you know in creed which very closely follows some of the structures of rocky like the first fight is in tijuana and it's like no creed can fucking fight like creed's knocking this dude out like and it's not like oh like this why is this guy fighting you're like you're watching me like he can fight yeah yeah we were at the creed he's but he's the guy who's already knows that it's over yeah
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And every time he pops up, I'm like the driver. Easily the most 1975 thing in this movie.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
What did Rocky do? Well, Rocky's not a very good collector. Rocky's letting a lot of guys off. Not breaking enough thumbs.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
We stopped using the phrase ham and egger. Him asking the secretary for the business card back so that he can keep it as like a keepsake. Yeah. There's so many good subtle touches like that. You're right. Oh yeah. This guy, this guy thinks this is like the only proxy, like the closest he's ever going to get to success is being in this office. So he wants to keep everything he gets from it.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Running up the art museum steps. Steady cam. Yeah. It's actually great shot Garrett because he's the steady cam inventor. Great shot Garrett. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He hears the punches, right? Yeah. Because Duke's got his back to the TV and then he turns around slowly. He's like, what's going on here? He hears the punches.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Seriously, inside of that building, the art museum, is some of the greatest works of art in the history of the world. There's like... Medieval suits of armor. There's like tombs from Egypt. There's paintings from Impressionism. The dress could kill ladies glove. And it's just literally like every day there is a line of cars and vans waiting to take pictures of the Rocky statue there.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It is still like this iconic thing.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I don't see a lot of dudes being like, man, Rocky's really means a lot to me. But it's like, you have to remember, Iverson's 25 years ago now. So it's like, this is a very long time ago.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Awesome. You hear people chanting like Frasier in the background. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The guys jumping around. In the first round as they're like sort of feeling each other out. It's never like... Those are like, he's actually like missing. Like they're not like, that's not bad stunt work.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This is because it cut me, Mick.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But is that also why you've been a little bit reticent to do it? No. On the pod?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, because don't they say Apollo's bleeding internally, basically?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
During the fight, especially on repeat viewing, I think you can tell that the stadium's empty when they're fighting or very empty.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Some of the ADR sound effects stuff could have been better. But that bell... Everybody rushing in, the overhead shot of everybody rushing in, the music, him just being like, you automatically kind of intuitively know it doesn't matter if he's won or not. It's because he's stuck through the whole fight. He did win.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's just like, holy shit, man.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Going to fly now? I think I'd probably go with the training. Yeah, the finally getting up the art museum steps to go to fly now.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I love the fact that the guy keeps yelling, eight minutes. Oh, seven minutes. But it's like it gives their date urgency. Like if you can't close here, you know?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
White Doo-Wop. That's up there. Yeah. I get it. Maybe not 1976. I mean, did we still have such voices back then? I don't know. White Doo-Wop.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Do you remember, have you ever seen a group of men singing in harmony on a street corner in real life? No. Yeah. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
A lot of the stuff that we lionize on this podcast, smoky dive bars, 1970 streets and stuff. this is the real shit in this movie. And it kind of makes me second guess whether I would love to be in a smoke filled bar, the lucky seven Tavern overhead lighting and three absolutely like guys dying of kidney failure. Like, right. I don't know. Polly upset that the mayor is broken.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Gary Brown, inventor of the Steadicam. And he basically was trying to get people interested in the technology. And Rocky winds up becoming more or less the guinea pig for the technology that changes cinema.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The actual Turtles. Still alive as of 2021, which is the last reference I could find of them, but Stallone kept them. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's amazing.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Turtles do smell too, I got to say.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You know what I was thinking about the other day is how come in sports media, we're pretty obsessed with the great teams, the dynasties, the burgeoning dynasties, the Chiefs, the Pats, the like, we're always talking about the Lakers and the NBA or whatever. Yeah. But in movies, we're never interested in the great teams. We're interested in the underdog teams or the underdog player.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. You wouldn't watch Moneyball about Brian Cashman. You know, you'd want to watch Moneyball about a guy trying to put together a team with less money than Brian Cashman. Like we don't ever make movies that are about like, oh, this is the story of the three Pete.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But I was wondering if this was the first time you remember seeing in a movie sports narratives and storylines getting manipulated from behind the scenes in a kind of dark arts way to create... a sensation, right? Cause like all the stuff that Apollo and, and Juergens are doing where they're like, well, we got to pick this guy because they'll believe in this guy.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
If a random wild card baseball team wins, it's kind of like, this is annoying. Yeah. Like we don't. It negates the regular season.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And this is like how we're going to do this. And what I'm going to do is knock them out here, you know? And it's like all this stuff that feels like it's not the, the, uh, pure athleticism and the, the triumph of, of like the little guy over the big guy. It's like, actually like there's all this other stuff happening in the grimy seedy underbelly.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's also explicitly discussed how manipulating people's racial biases will lead to a bigger payday, lead to a bigger audience, right? Yeah. Let's get this guy because of this city, because of this time. And like, here's the story we're going to tell about him.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It is a pretty good one. Do you ever have moments in the gym where everybody stops training at once because something has happened in the gym? Yeah. That is like when Mick and Rock are yelling at each other and everybody just stops.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I can't remember. I couldn't really think of an example of a sports movie that did that, where it's like, here's all this gross shit happening underneath. I'm sure there's like 1930s and 40s boxing movies where like a mafia guy is trying to get a boxer to take a dive or whatever. But Apollo is like manipulating the media in this.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oh, he's the one with the glasses? Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. I mean, you could get into some trouble out there. It's like when Philly was really in a lot of economic despair.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I think it was pretty fucked up everywhere. I think the 70s were rough. Yeah. So it's mostly Kensington, kind of like Port Richmond shot there. You put my stuff on Skid Row.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You kill her like your father. What an intense scene. Come on, come on. I was watching Godfather the other day. The amount of times somebody's like, you think I'm going to make my godson an orphan? And it's just like, I am. And they just kill.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's so cool that you don't really leave the ring.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
person because even I mean Rock is a dude but he's very over the top kind of as well you know like but I think like her subtlety and vulnerability kind of yeah she's like and she's also the person who's just like look around me like this sucks so much I have to make myself small so that this doesn't right kill me like you know she's just like I don't want to like see it I don't want to hear about it I don't want to like talk about it one of my hot takes about this movie is I don't think Pauly was a very good brother
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I had Reflections, which is the one that samples Cool and the Gang, which was later used by Fresh Prince. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This is also the weak link of the movie.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He says... I go out and get your meat every morning. You forgot that. Then even give you my sister too. You're such a loser. I didn't get married because of you. You can't live by yourself. I put you two together and you don't forget it. You owe me. Rocky should have punched this guy to death. Rocky should have at least thrown him out the fucking window, but should have hit him.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And you know what would have happened? Nothing. Not a single person in that neighborhood would have been like, not Pauly. It would have just been like, it was, he had it coming.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And it's like a really normal response. It's not like she's like, I have social anxiety. I can't go on a date. She's like, I've been making your fucking dinner all day.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And she's got to go out with Rock on Thanksgiving. She's got to go to the stink house after the ice rink with no Thanksgiving dinner.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Can you imagine living in between Rocky and Pauly where those two assholes are yelling out the window, like, oh, Pauly, I got your sister. My sister's a pig. It's just like, I would just be like, come on, guys.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I think the problem with the skating rink is it could have just ended with a kiss at the skating rink, and that would be the end of the first date. And instead, he's like, let's go back to my house, and I'll show you my throws.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And then he starts denying his bodily fluids. That's the tough part. You know, gets her hooked on it. And then he's just like, no.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He also, I mean, she doesn't have a lot of options in that scene. Like he's kind of like. Especially she has nowhere to go. I got my phone taken out. Right.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
She's like, can I use the phone?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But we need to maybe add another cigarette award here, which is the Sylvester Stallone Award for smoking so much in a movie that you quit smoking. In real life? In real life, he quit after Rocky because he was like, it was too gross. I'd smoked so much on Rocky, I had to quit. Oh, interesting. Didn't know that. That wasn't in my research CR. Stallone is for quitters. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
No one says, Pauly, you piece of shit. Shut up. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I thought about quitting drinking last night watching Pauly.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Maybe James Cameron could stop making Avatar movies and instead single-handedly populate the spectrum.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Fincher is like moving curtains in Panic Room. We can get Fincher on the crowd here. You guys want James Cameron to fix Rocky?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I think Rocky's advice to that 12-year-old girl, you use bad words and maybe you end up becoming a whore.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And Adrian's dead by this point. Adrian's dead. And he starts hanging out with. Marie LaLure from the Atomic Hoagie Shop. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
By far, the most interesting non-Big 3 character in this movie, not Rocky, Adrian, or Apollo, is by far Gotso. And... I don't know how much of a... Whether it makes it a better or worse sports movie, but it's a much more interesting movie if Gotso tries to assert his control over Rocky for the second half. Tries to get him to fix the fight? I just think Joe Spindel is awesome in this.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Obviously also in The Godfather. Or Godfather 2. And it would just be so cool if he was like... everybody's putting money on you going down the third.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
That's when you think he's starting to like maybe try to get in on him a little bit. And I was like, this would have been so cool if we had two more Gotso scenes and two less Pauly scenes.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
In this movie, he's just racist against Italians. Right.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
First of all, Delaware is a state. Hot take. Delaware is an entire state. That's fine.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Wait, well, Philadelphia has actual real legendary bosses. In 1980, they win the fucking NBA championship. I get it.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I get it. Yeah, but like Philly...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Look at Jem from the fucking town over there. It'd be Baltimore if it wasn't for this. I'm just trying to bring the hottest take back to where it used to be.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Was this like an early watching it on cable over and over again? Or did you have it on tape? You didn't see this in the theater, right? Oh, I did.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So I was going to save this for recasting couch. You could even call this a lukewarm take. What is this movie if it's James Caan as Rocky and Harvey Keitel as Pauly? Oh. Or John Cazale as Pauly?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oh, Cary Snodgrass was in Bill Rider. I remember.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, the doo-wop guy. Now, do you think Frank was like, me and my boys have a doo-wop group and we'd love to get just 10 seconds of screen time?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
No, I was just saying, like, I think that there is a different version of Pauly that's, like, a little bit more... Likeable? Palatable. Yeah. And that... John Cazale may feel like he's played the failed brother a few too many times. Yeah. He's got a shit ton of charisma.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, like, what if he was, like, a skinny, kind of, like, nobody ever paid attention to him guy? Not, like, a raging alcoholic who tried to put logos on the back of people's robes. That's smart.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He takes a slug of whatever he's drinking in the meat locker once. Yeah. Like his lower lip is all wet. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah, they were like, oh, you do this and I'll do this.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Because they kind of cast Weathers off of like a sparring session anyway. So I think they were probably like, we can just fight.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. I think that there's, you could make the argument that one of the things that's aged the worst is like, they leave this conception of Rocky in this movie. And then he gets, I think even more, he gets smarter and more physically talented as he gets older, which he's already probably is not the case for the boxers. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I don't know how they did it. It just felt like you were very on top of things.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And then the spectrum was like, let's put everybody close. But if you watch the Kentucky Duke highlights from the Leitner shot game, people are so close. They're so up on the game.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oh, wow. I was gonna say, I don't know if you were gonna do my flex category, but it was gonna be... Yours is coming. Okay. Isn't it coming? I think I deleted it. Damn. No, do it now. Okay. My okay, motherfucker moment when the movie... Wait, let me redo that. My okay, motherfucker moment when the movie jumps up a notch is when Gonna Fly Now drops like 90 minutes in. Because you're really like...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
all right, man, this is kind of a sleepy boxing movie, man. What are we going to do? And then it's like, you just, it really, it gets the adrenaline going. He's racing the boat and Sierra's like, you know who they're looking at?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yes. Yeah. Is this apex mountain for a woman taking her glasses off and getting that much hotter? Oh man. Wow.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I don't actually... When she takes her glasses off, I'm not like, whoa, Adrienne's hot. But I'm just... It is a classic kind of like... She takes them off and it's like now all of a sudden...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
See, I was very much more... I think I might have first seen Rocky IV in the theater. Yeah. Went backwards. So Rocky I exists in this really weird... In the prequel world. Yeah. Well, it just is like... When you watch it when you're younger, you're kind of like... this sucks. You know, like this guy's a loser. Everything's does, does not pay like the most flattering portrait of Philadelphia.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Yeah. Jason Schwartzman tells this really funny story about like for most of the beginning of his life, people calling his mom, Adrian. And I forgot that's his mom. Yeah. And like, he's just like, why are they calling you Adrian? And she would just be like, yeah, they're confused. They don't understand.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And then like, he starts to realize like a hundred people can't be wrong when they're like, Hey, Adrian. Apex mountain for shy girlfriends. CR. It might be.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It might be. I was also going to ask, is this Apex Mountain for withholding sex while training and or competing in sports? Is it this or Bull Durham?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
What, you think Rock is still having sex?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Cause he's like, I, you know, I'm trying to save all my juices.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I don't think sports science was really... Did they ever cover this with John Brankus?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Should they try this with Embiid?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You know, I think the founding of our nation, probably 1776, is a pretty big one. Solid. For some. And then... Not everybody was in the same. The 83 Sixers title? Beating the Pats in 18. This is up there, though. Ending the Mahomes dynasty? Yeah, I think that this, if you were carving a Mount Rushmore of Philadelphia, they'd put Rocky with his hands in the air on it.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Uh, and you're just kind of like, Oh man, this is a real bummer. I much prefer two and three and four. But then as you get older, I think you see the artistry of it and you realize it's part of like the context. It's essentially like Stallone making mean streets.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So give me... How are you defining this? Because a couple years later, Raging Bull comes out. Like, you know, I think...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You take Rocky. I would take Raging Bull. Really? Yes. Interesting. Yeah. Raging Bull is a lot more interesting to watch than Rocky is. Wow.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I know, I always, Rachel Bullfell is a little bit of Rocky. I mean, you got Pesci kind of playing the Bert Young, Moriarty's the Adrian, you know?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You can buy Tom Cruz as a heavyweight boxing challenger?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I'm going to say Hanks, but you guys obviously win this democracy. Cruz? I go with Cruz. Okay. Scorsese or Spielberg? Is this the perfect movie if they co-direct it? Huh. The inspirational side of Spielberg, the gritty side of Scorsese?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Can you imagine if Spielberg got his hands on the last fight? I think it's Scorsese. I mean, I have Scorsese, but a co-director situation. He directs Raging Bull a few years later. The opera entrance into the ring is...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
So many people are taking that. But Apollo picks Rocky for the specific story, right?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
He's like, oh, he's in England. It's like, he can get back from England.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This is something that I thought.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And I got a guy who's going to open up your eyeball in the 15th round.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Um, there's that scene where Van talked about being quite moved by Rocky, you know, doing the, where were you 10 years ago scene with Mick and the blocking of that scene is kind of weird, but it's like, you know, the doors are closing and opening and mixed all the way down that hallway and then almost outside.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
And he still is hearing the speech that Rocky's giving for the most part at like regular speaking voice. Yeah. I can't hear my wife in the other room if the water is on, so there's no fucking way that Mick can hear this monologue halfway down the stairs. 76-year-old Mick? Yeah. He's been punched in the head 7,000 times in his life. There's no way.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Well, I think in the movie, it seems like he's been going in a lot and making his like, I make a joke in the morning and a joke in the afternoon, right?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
She's spending money that he hasn't made yet.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
She's like, I got a red coat. You better get in that ring.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
sequel prequel prestige TV all black cast are untouchable they've done they did them all pretty much all of those they haven't done prestige they haven't done a TV adaptation of this universe yet oh you know what they were going to right wasn't there a television show of some sort coming with the Creed in the Creed universe no am I making this up no I mean I think cause this was bought by Amazon in the MGM purchase yeah and I think that they were going to do like the usual make it a universe kind of thing
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Take her to the zoo. The movie is better with Gotso's Driver. I was going to say, oh, Mike, you see, you don't just have to take Adrienne to the zoo.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Just what, Oscar? Who gets it? I got Stallone for screenplay. Okay. I think that's fair. And this year, you know?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This is where Gatsu gets involved.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
This is where Gatsu gets involved. You go out there, you can acquit yourself decently the last two rounds and then you got to go down.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
What happens to the live odds once Apollo goes down in the first round?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I gotta tell you, not a lot. There's not a lot of showering going on in this movie. So I don't really know what I would walk away with.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
The one where he's fucking bleeding all over them from punching the meat.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
You have to fucking fumigate it. Yeah.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It would be cool if you started having, like, every day me and Sean and Mal and Van had to put our shit in lockers and then every once in a while we'd come in and put our shit on Skid Row. Like last week's podcast.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
When do you stop counting Rocky movies? Four? Yeah. Well, you know what?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Rocky V is the one with Tommy Morrison Tommy Morrison I like Rocky V it was V and then Balboa I despise V but I will admit that the last like 30 minutes of V is pretty good I gotta go see Rocky Balboa to see if Marie's in this fucking thing that's the whole it's a huge part of the movie I've seen the movie before I don't think that I connected that that was the character from the first movie so who won the movie obviously Sly Stallone here's my question
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
In fact, I would say we could rename it the Stallone who won the movie award, but no one's ever really done this.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
There's also not that many times where people have successfully, like stars born, where people are like, I'm directing this shit or I'm writing it and I'm starring in it and I'm going to learn to do something. That's the problem.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's nowhere near the accomplishment. And even he, I was going to say Orson Welles, doing Citizen Kane, but he was already considered a boy genius coming out of radio plays and his theater company. He had already done War of the Worlds on radio.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's funny that it's outlived CR. Because you're not 50. Nope.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Two years before I was born. Yeah. Or they shot it two years before I was born. I was going to say that what they need to do is get back to what makes this story so meaningful is that it's a guy out of nowhere. And you can't do that if it's like it's a Paul Creed son.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's also like when you talk about Karate Kid and you even talk about movies like, I don't know, the John Hughes movies and even up to Top Gun. It's just a much different portrait of American life because this is so urban. And then you see movies sort of start to look towards the suburbs for storytelling because it's a lot safer and cleaner and prettier to do that. But this is so like...
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
I like that they're like, we got to rush in and do this. Like, we got to make it. This movie starts the second the first one ends.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It looks like the Depression.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Didn't you have a big Forrest Gump reinvigorated jogging, but you think Rocky started jogging?
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's Tarantino crossed with acting almost? Yeah, but I was trying to think of also the people who have broken big and then stayed big with the story of making the movie mirrors the movie itself. His self-belief, his, I believe in, I'm betting on myself on this one, and if it means I can't even make the movie at all, I'm not going to compromise.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
To actually catapult yourself into this kind of level of fame is astonishing.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
It's really cool reading William Goldman break it down. He talks a lot about the locker scene and all the different things you learn about Rocky from just him hitting the locker to open it up.
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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
But it's a great juxtaposition too, because the three or four of the main characters of this movie are like almost nonverbal. They're like barely articulate. Right. No, you're right. That was like a nice way to put it. Yeah. Like, I mean, Adrian Pauly and Rocky are kind of like either drunk, shy to the point of petrification or like brain dead.
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The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
They got to train somebody else. She was looking at Ellie crazy. It's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. You good? Mm-hmm. That's not what good people say. And I know it's a little bit in jest, but she don't care about Joel, man. Joel died. That's her up. Ah, that's tough. I mean, yeah. I'm sorry, Ellie. It's not. Ah, you're not the only person to ever lose somebody. That's kind of crazy, my man.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Ah, you know what I mean? It's like. She was looking at Ellie at that meeting when she was talking like this.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I liked the, the, we talked about the council a little earlier, but it's eight to three in the most, like I'm watching them. Like you're not, this is not happening. Oh yeah. You lost this battle, but the it's the three is important. The three yeses are important because I'm pretty sure like, again, they don't tell us, but I'm pretty sure Tommy, Maria and Jesse are, Probably voted yes.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
You think Jesse voted yes? Because Jesse voted yes. I don't think Jesse voted yes. I think Jesse voted yes. I'm standing up for Jesse, man. Jesse definitely voted no. I think Jesse knew she didn't have the numbers. He was like, you know, I'm going to throw you this little pity vote so you can have it. Maybe not. But I would hope that after everything they've been through, he could be the homie.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I'm like, she's standing. What about old boy? He was like, well, I've been thinking we bitches are going corn. Corn grows better. I love that guy. It sounded like a Parks and Rec episode. He was making points.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
You know what I'm saying?
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
You think he's overcompensating? You think he felt really bad about it? Hell yeah. He's just kind of like, hey, man, I said sorry.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
What? You gotta remember, Killmonger, all he wants to do was give back to the black folk around the globe, right? All he wanted to do was give back to his people. And they made him kill a lady. Once he was spent, he was spent true game. And the movie was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we have to have him kill a lady, make sure that we know he's the bad guy.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I think Bub Rub is right. E-40 is probably out there with the Wakandans, man, doing community outreach.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Because I'll be like, I gotta see it.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
But that's why the show did such a great job in that conversation with Catherine O'Hara because Joel's like, or Tommy's like, this is who Joel is. did he bring Ellie up to also be like this? Kevin's like, no. Man, these are two people who found each other, but through some cosmic coincidence are the same person. who are going to go in there, guns blasting first, asking questions later.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
There's nothing really Joel could have done to keep her from that. That's just who she is. So at the end of the day, you want to be like, oh man, did Joel do this to Ellie? Nah, man. That's just who she is. I mean, that's who she is.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
That scene, I mean, yeah, going back to the empty house, horrific. I think the scene, the part that got me specifically is when she's the bomb, the jacket that Jolo is wearing. She's crying. And then Dina shouts out. And she's got to be like, I'm good. What's up?
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
She went back to Jessie when Ellie was in the hospital. You know what I mean? Look, situationships are tough, man. Dina's a fuckboy. I'm going to be so honest.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
She got a whole roster.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Horses have to- Well, even before they leave, right? They have that scene where Ellie's getting on the gear together. Yeah. And Dina's like- Hold on, player. This is not going to go down like that. You're not locked in. Here's what we got to do. Here's what we got to take. Forget the converse. We're wearing boots. It gets cold as hell.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I'm glad you guys had that experience.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I will not be there.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I'm singing Rusted Root on Send Me On My Way just in my head send me on my way like I liked it I thought it worked though I thought once it started I was a little bit like huh but once they got a little bit more into their journey
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
All right. Hey, there might be.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
This is how the Bene Gesserit started. What are you doing?
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Can I be further from the truth? He's got armor on. I die immediately.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
They got tanks, man.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
My nigga got so much corn. I don't know how far you can get a tank from Seattle.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I think, I mean, something you said earlier, Charles, about the difference between Jackson Hole and Seattle. I think when they were like looking at me like, oh, they got generators, they got electricity, they got all this. It's less about like all the stuff they have It's the fact that it looks like a community, right?
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
It looks like these people have like banded together to do something for the greater good versus just like take over a city and you come up, we're going to bomb y'all. You know what I'm saying? We're going to start shooting like very much ran like a military versus like a family. I think is when they're like looking out at Jackson and go, Oh, man, y'all really like each other over there.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
That's real cute. We ain't really got that over there. We beefing all the time. I think, like, that's a core difference. And I'm interested to see if or I'm sure when Ellie and Dina, you know, trying to sneak up and handle business with Abby, how different it is for them. Because, again... It looks like there's a lot of people who will kill them if they try to, like, step out of line.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
And so, like, you can't... I don't know if you do the whole Abby thing where, like, oh, I'm helpless. Look at me. Any help? Come save me type act. How do they infiltrate Seattle? Well, they've seen them. So you can't do that. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? You can't do that. Yeah. So it looks like there's... They're going to need some help that's not coming.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Probably, yeah. Anywhere that there are people that's going to be infected.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I mean, shut the fuck up. You got to turn them into glue sooner rather than later. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
That's what I said. Is he overcompensating? Like, is he doing too much? That was the moment where I was like, they always do that, bro.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I mean, how much time do you want to spend with them watching them fish? I want to see somebody catch a fish. Catch one fish.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
She was doing pushups and crunches when the doctors weren't looking in the hospital. Good straight right though.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Y'all was hating, she handling business.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Perfect. What's a movie theater popcorn? Movie theater popcorn. They just have that? They just be selling that? Everybody can get movie theater popcorn everywhere?
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
It's popping off over here. Last of Us and or Thunderbolts. Don't get left behind.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I mean, you could get the kernels and get the... Well, I have a popcorn maker.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I'm about to say, that's your best.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
It's coming right up. We're going to talk about it. If you don't want to miss it, lock in. Come on, Chuck. Come on, Chuck. Come on, jump. See, there's a... Come on, jump. Come on, jump. Chuck saw all the good news and he was like, nah, nah.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
To me, if last week's episode not to keep making the Thrones comparison, but this would be the episode nine of Thrones. Episode 10 would be kind of the calming down and everybody getting put in position for the next season, right? But this is episode three of seven, so they have to keep moving.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
And to your point, they did a really good job of not only letting people be hurt by what happened last week, but also moving us forward in regards to Ellie and Dina and their journey to Seattle, right? I thought the episode...
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
was emotional and I thought that it did an excellent job of putting us in that moment especially with Gabrielle Luna Tommy and he's gotta like wash his brother's dead body he relieves the other person and he's there and I was just like dang and then you get the shot of Bella Ramsey just like screaming her screaming their lungs out and it's gut-wrenching that was a gut-wrenching moment I can't find the words it was hard it was just hard to watch
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
And then again, three months later, we're supposed to just like, you know, hey, yeah, I'm fine. You know, I just thought the show did an amazing job of picking up where those characters are emotionally right after three months later and their journey going forward. I think this episode is a great palate cleanser to last week's.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
Yeah, they're not hitting it that far out. She's fine. They ain't got Shohei out there. Nah, man. I thought, to your point about Jesse... The show did a great job of, you know, showing us, not telling us, right? Because they're rebuilding, right? And Tommy's trying to, you know, get the hammer in the wood, whatever. And he can't do it. Getting a little old. And he's like, yay, Jesse, come through.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
And Jesse's like, bam, I got it. Thursday edits are going to go crazy for that one. I'm cooked. I'm washed, man. I got it like I used to.
The Ringer-Verse
‘The Last of Us Season’ 2 Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys
I'm not going to lie to you. She was not cooking. Well, I don't know. Well, no, because that's not what Shushi is. I immediately, when Jessie's like, write your thoughts down, be coherent, and just keep on script, I thought she would start off and try it and then be like, actually, fuck you. Just how she would do.