Pete Wright
Appearances
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
How am I, secular human, supposed to relate to humility if I'm not religious and don't have that background? Asking a rhetorical question, but I am also curious what you think.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
No, and what that begets is greed, right? I'm keeping my only friend to a begotten son, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Thankfully, you and I don't have to armchair too much because David Hume got there first.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
oh dave i know dave yeah so uh the good dave he has a what what he called a secular ethic right and so this is 18th century now we're we're many many years post-crucifixion we've we've jumped time uh everybody's wearing did you just have me try to do stuff and then you actually have a real smart guy gonna answer the question Isn't that what we do? Yeah, I guess so.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Except mine are usually plagiarists. So he was a massive critic of Christian humility. And this is why I mentioned we were going to come back to this particular word, because he promoted, Mr. Hume, a form of humility that he termed modesty. Oh, involves a realistic self-assessment of the recognition of one's limitations.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
We mentioned that he argued specifically that this form of humility is essential for moral motivation and social harmony. Right. You talked about that because you don't see yourself apart from everybody else. Yeah, exactly. and says it fosters extensive sympathy and empathy and moral judgments based on, this is the part that I love, common human experience rather than doctrine.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
All the Feelings presents Sins and Virtues. This episode, Humility. Hi, everybody. Welcome to All the Feelings, Sins, and Virtues. I'm Pete Wright.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
So I did a little bit of searching on other sort of models of secular philosophical approaches to humility or perspectives. There is intellectual humility, right? It emphasizes the importance of recognizing the limits of one's knowledge and being open to information and perspectives. I think it's safe to say that in many circles, we lack intellectual humility right now in our modern society.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Right. And of course, intellectual humility is very much, you know, valued in scientific and academic communities and formerly in journalistic communities. And it was seen as crucial for the advancement of knowledge and the avoidance of dogmatism, I think is how to put it. Right. Big deal. The other, Confucian humility is another.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
In Confucian philosophy, social humility is rooted in the social and ethical fabric of society. Confucian humility emphasizes the importance of placing social good above individual aspirations and recognizing your own place. in a larger community, which is antithetical to capitalist dogma, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Absolutely anti-humility feels to me in this context, antithetical to the Western way of life, which is kind of, it's really makes me a little bit sick to my stomach.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I know, God, why do I keep hearing that? You know, secular humanism, we've got humanist ethics and, you know, just this the whole idea that there are ethical principles based on reason, empathy and commitment to human well-being. Again, it feels like we're trailing off as we fall off the edge of our flat earth. Sure. Interesting. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I feel like all of this is really useful right now, especially as we just try to rationalize how we can still be good people, how we can still find a way to be modest, if not humble, right? Right. From a non-secular perspective. And and and be able to live a whole life with other people and different belief systems.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I don't think we can find I think where we struggle to find commonality is when we are not able to understand the perspective that we bring to differing communities. Self-awareness with other people. The other. Yeah. Yeah. The other. Isn't that part of it? Very much so. That's what I've been thinking about. That's my whole, that's my whole jam.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I feel like now we've solved humility and what are we going to do for the rest of the episode? I don't know. Um, play a little, uh, yeah. Rochambeau football. Is that a thing you can do? I don't know how football works.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I just spiked a ball on your head. Oh, guess what? You're out. I just, I just took your entire team out of the umpires. You just struck me out. Is that a football thing? All right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Are you ready? First of all, let's just note you were just complaining that I did this exact thing to you and you already had it locked and loaded.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
It means that I was prideful and I had an event that brought me down to earth.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Yeah, I know, number four. And not a single one released. How about that? You're going to tell people that? That's my shame.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
that were hidden. So when you eat humble pie, you're brought down to earth by losing some teeth. Did you know that?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I'm definitely never saying this again.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I'm going to guess it has something to do with mistaking words.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
There is a story, one I heard for the first time a long time ago, but many times in many different forms since. And I'm going to share it in its full state, as full a state as I can remember, as a wee gift for those who are married and sometimes need to be taken down a peg or two. In a small, picaresque town... there lived a well-respected preacher named John.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That's our Netflix model. Yeah, this is the value. We are talking about a... I had a hard time with this one today. We're talking about humility, which is today a virtue, but we're going to come back around to that.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Reverend John was known for his passionate sermons and his unwavering dedication to his congregation. He had been preaching for over 20 years, and he took great pride in his work. His wife, Mary, was his steadfast companion, brilliant and beautiful, and always supporting him from her perch in the frontmost pew.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
One sunny afternoon while cleaning out the attic, Reverend John stumbled upon an old dusty shoebox tucked away in a corner. Curiosity peaked. He opened the box and was surprised to find five eggs and a stack of bills totaling over $10,000. Confused and intrigued, he decided to ask Mary about it. Mary, I found this shoebox in the attic. It has five eggs and a lot of money in it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Do you know anything about that? He asked, holding up the box. Mary's face turned a shade of pink, and she hesitated before responding. Yes, John, I do. You see, every time you preach a bad sermon, I put an egg in the box. Reverend John was taken aback a bit. He'd always believed he was an exceptional preacher. But then he thought, five bad sermons in over 20 years wasn't so bad.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
He felt a sense of pride wash over him. Only five bad sermons in all these years. That's not too bad, he thought, smiling to himself. His wife continued as if she hadn't noticed his silent preening. And every time I collected a dozen eggs, I sold them and tossed the money right in that box. Want to share your love without the baggage of judgy lessons and fiscal responsibility?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
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All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
So jump in now, support the season, and know you're also supporting Pete and Tom from the farm all the way to our humble table. Visit allthefeelings.fun to learn more. And thank you for your support. And now, back to the show.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I think I would rather you define it for me because I have a feeling I might try and give you an example and it'll be wrong. Okay. I'll be like, I'll do a full Linus Morissette. Like, it's not ironic.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Why are your eyes bleeding? I because I don't know how to I don't know how to do. I don't know how to do stuff. Right. Look, the thing I it is you've tapped into an anxiety for me, which is how do I share the work that I'm proud of and not sound like a dick?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That I worry that I am doing this all the time. So as you talk about it, I'm like, ugh. And here's why. This is a big why. Because, you know, as we've talked about, this is me about to humble brag. I'm going to do it right now. I don't know how to do it any other way. I just, with my co-host of the ADHD podcast, we just wrote a book. We wrote a book together. We worked very hard together.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
And we wrote a book and it was hard. And that book is being published. And the publisher has told us that the book is coming out on September 4th. Pre-orders are available now. Yeah, if you're into ADHD, if you're like a real fan of ADHD, you should go get this book. It's Unapologetically ADHD. It's in Amazon. You should go get it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
The thing is, I'm about to have to start learning how to promote this book in a way that people need to buy it. And also, I'm terrible at that largely. And I wish I didn't have to do it. I wish it could just like I wish there was a Patreon for my life and people could just throw me a buck for everything I do. And I would never have to ask for any value exchange at all because I hate it so much.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
So that's where I am. And that's why this gives me heartburn.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I dodged a bullet.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That's a humble brag. So I'm calling them out as I see them.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Humble brag. Okay. You get it? Really? I mean, I get it. But also, I have watched a lot of Leon Gritch, and he's a pretty grounded guy.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Well, now, wait a minute. No, this is I'm going to push back because that presumes people in the industry didn't know that he got an Oscar certificate, like got his Oscar nomination. If this was already news, we know he's already there. And like like maybe he's just calling that out. We didn't need to know that Tia Tequila had a Lambo. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Ouch! Yeah, okay, I get that one. I get it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
And performatively, for sure. But here's the thing I don't understand. Yeah. I feel like you've just humanized an exchange between you, and that is awesome. And you've just found a way into this exchange to get her to come out of her shell. Amazing. At no point did you brag. So where's the brag in the Dumblebrag? Or are you just Dumbledorking? I don't know.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Look, humility is a challenging one because it's in the definition, as Robot said. A modest or low view of one's own importance feels self-deprecating, which feels antithetical to what we believe here in Ye Olde West. Hmm. Explain. That's interesting. Well, I don't know. I mean, don't you just isn't this just a recipe for feeling like crap all the time?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That's the act of humility right there.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Everybody needs to stop and notice how dumb I am.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
You give me an opportunity to say giraffe.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Well, I feel like you all these years have probably been using this like Tom Ripley on me now. And it's making me rethink every exchange we've ever had. So that's good, I guess. You really dumbbell bragged your way into this.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Thank you all so much for joining us for this episode. This week's tune is Humble by Young Lords. And coming up next week, oh, Tom. Yikes.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Yeah, Wrath. We're going to Wrathville, USA. What is in the box?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Yeah. That's the one thing I know about Star Trek. Is Khan was there. Yeah. Well, we're going to see how close you are to that, if you can dumbbell brag your way out of that. Until next week, I'm Pete Wright.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Well, you use self-deprecation as a weapon, a tool. Weapon is not the right word.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
And we're going to talk about modesty in a second, because I think it's interesting that you put modesty in the robot, but modesty in the definition, because modesty came relatively late in the historical sort of evolution of the concept of humility. And this is why I think humility is interesting. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
So when you look at humility, you know, our modern interpretation, as we just said, it's the opposite of pride or arrogance. And what I found a different definition that I actually really like, it is about having an accurate assessment of one's abilities, accomplishments and limitations, which has a different spin on it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
I, for me to have an actualization, that's like, yes, isn't that doesn't that feel a little bit more in alignment with, with humility, as we understand it, the non secular kind of version of humility?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Because then it's not grounded in self-deprecation or meekness. Right. It's grounded in maintaining perspective about where you are in the world. So that's what it used to be, you're saying? No, that's what I think. That's, I think, a really good definition of what it is. Got it. Yeah. Right? I think it's a more complete definition of what it is. But this is the fascinating bit.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
The ancient views of humility. I am really, I feel like I have come into my own as a 50-something. Because suddenly I'm into, like, World War I and ancient Greeks. Are you my dad? Yeah, right. I've just become dad. This is what I think is really interesting. In ancient Greek philosophy, humility was not valued and was actually seen as a form of self-abasement. Pride and honor were the virtues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Greeks. Yeah. Yeah. And that, like, isn't that fascinating? Like, be shocked about that. Pride was a virtue. Humility was effectively the sin.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Because that was it. I'm prime among peers. I am. I'm powerful. I'm strong. I am the best warrior. I'm the best whatever. Like Pride was the jam. when we were in more of a, I don't, I mean, the ancient civilization, right? The Greeks and the Romans that were all about pride.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Well, that, I guess, would be the sin, right, is false pride. But saying you're the best and trying to outdo one another, that sort of braggadocio was the event, right? That's why we threw each other in the Coliseum and fought, right? We fought lions and stuff. Like, what a horrible Sunday.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Right, right. Okay. So what was it that actually, this is where things get a little bit, again, crazy for my brain. What was it that actually changed society? humility and swapped humility and pride. What was that transition of humility from being denigrated to being respected as a virtue?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Well, it is always the one thing. Religion. You can be more specific than that. Jesus Christ. Superstar.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Well, that's what that's what he preached. But, you know, there is an argument that is made in many texts that even that wasn't really understood until one event in his lifetime or in his lifetime. What I know it is pretty well known. You know, I think you might have heard this one.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
It was the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Yes. And it's like, you know, if somebody strikes you in the left cheek, always turn against him with your right. Like that mentality started to make sense to people. And this is the thing that's crazy. It is documented that humility made that shift from sin to virtue over the course of, and units matter, two decades, 20 years. 2,000 years ago, people just changed belief.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That's how quickly the sentiment changed and humility became the jam of everyone.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
There is a lot of writing and how the writing changes.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Wow. Everyone's writing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Hey, Seuss Washington. Yeah, right. Right. So that is bonkers to me. Like, wow, we can't do anything in the span of 20 years. And the world, the Christian world changed an ideology in the span of 20 years.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Right. I'm just here whacking away at this bookshelf. Yeah. So, yeah. So it was really the Christian, the Christian input post Jesus's crucifixion was hot, hot, hot.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Interesting. And in Christian tradition now, right, the role of humility in counteracting pride, pride is considered the most severe of the seven deadly sins in many circles. Think about that. Right. Over like wrath? Right. Because it involves an excessive love of one's own excellence and often leads to other sins.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
You can do anything you want.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
You can greet it down. And you can do it wherever you want. You could do it in Times Square if you wanted to.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Is it really a sin? Right. If I'm doing it, surely it's not a sin.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
And this was so crazy because I don't think I understood what we were talking. We've talked about pride before, and I don't think I really understood the context at that point when we talked about pride because we weren't looking at it in the context of humility. And until I was able to read about the evolution of humility, pride didn't make whole sense to me. But it does more so now.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Like on the other hand, right, of pride, humility involves having an accurate perspective or view of yourself, right, and recognizing your own limitations. And once you recognize your own limitations, you're doing so with a perspective that you are not above anyone else. Right, it's not you and everyone else. You're not above the rules. You're not above the systems.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
You exist and you understand what is above and below your worldview. And that perspective leads to modest behavior, selflessness, respect for others, right? It's through humility that we... maintain our perspective on our own abilities and skills, right? And foster gratitude and dependence on our community and others. And of course, in the church, dependence on God. Wow.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That's a little bit mind blowing, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
And this, so this transitions because so much of like, we just talked about it, right? The foundation of humility is based on a supremely religious event, right? The crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. You bet. Right. Right. Yeah. And, And so how, like, I'm not, I am notably not a religious person.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
And do remember to keep the most excellent 80s movies podcast motto in mind.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
It's Chrissy and Nathan from the Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
Join us for delightful discussion, rollicking recaps, ratings, and deep-cut recommendations.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
Download the most excellent 80s movies podcast today at truestory.fm.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I had a really difficult time not relating it to Seinfeld. So Vipassana is about nothing. You're just doing nothing. You're just sitting and just looking around and doing nothing. But what's interesting about it is he started with a fascinating example that really works for me. So say you're laying in bed late one night. And I don't know why I laughed at that.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I was about to make some sort of a joke. It wasn't going to be funny. And so I derailed. I ran out of runway. Yeah. So you're laying in bed one night and you get an itch and it's at the bottom of your foot.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Now, you might naturally be drawn to lift your foot up and start scratching it or get up and walk around. It's the unscratchable itch. Maybe it's an itch below a callus. Those are impossible to resolve. But what if you stop and you say something more like, huh, that's an itch. I wonder why the nerve is acting up there. I'm curious about that.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I'm thinking, actually, I'm observing my experience of having that itch. What does it make me want to do? Well, it likely would make me want to reach my foot up and scratch it, but what if I just see where the itch is going? What if I just wait? What if I do nothing and just observe? I'll be damned, Tom, the itch goes away. The itch runs its course.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And I look at what you're describing, that sort of observational nature of introspection and curiosity is this sort of Vipassana approach to kindness and to patience. It is, I'm going to look at the world curiously, but through that curiosity, I'm going to attempt to understand it in a new way. And I think that's really fascinating.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I think that's really... I'm probably... I'm also now making a riddle, I think. But I think it's fascinating.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I start thinking like this entire sort of approach is something that gets me thinking about, okay, let's just – what if we are curious about that situation? My response normally might be, ugh, I'm mad, like you said. I'm just. But what I could be saying is, wow. I wonder what's going on in that car that caused them not to pay attention. I hope they're okay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And that's the kind and patient approach that says, I'm sacrificing my current experience and I'm selflessly now trying to be aware of the world around me in a way that's kind and patient and just letting it go.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Yeah, you're... You're the ass who doesn't recognize that they've just been poisoned by a Russian spy. Yeah, exactly. I just read that in a Jean Le Carre book, and I'm sure that's happening on the streets of Burbank, right? Wherever you happen to be driving, Hollywood mogul you. So anyhow, I think that's really interesting. Now, this is the cultural thing that got me thinking.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Look at the civil rights movement, right? I don't want to talk about any specific sides other than I'm pro-civil rights. Yeah, I think we can be on the record. Civil rights is great. That's not the point. The point is, look at the riots.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Look at any of the riots where you have lines of police and you get the students or protesters throwing rocks and bottles and Molotov cocktails at the lines of authority and there's conflict in the streets. We recognize... That's an unkind situation. And perspectives of each side recognize the other side as unkind, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And we all relate, I think, because of the noisy culture that we're in, that this is a horrific situation and we should not have gotten to this point. And yet... You see a commercial that displays the scene of a riot and you get a child going up to a police officer and handing them a Coke. Yeah. And it becomes the joke that, you know, lasted for ages.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Okay. This is the point. That ad comes from a massive corporate industrialist advertising machine. I get it. Right. But also it's an ad with a message of kindness and it became a joke to the Vox Populi immediately. Yeah. Why is that?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Hello, everybody! It's me, Pete, from the podcast, and that's Tom, also podcasting, and we're thrilled to be here patiently and kindly for our last major episode of this season.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
It's so interesting because I totally agree with you, and I think that is the general sense. But what it tells me is that the eighth sin should be like capitalism because we don't understand the other virtues if this is our answer to kindness, if this is how we're going to try and display what genuine acts of kindness are.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And I think that's the thing that sort of, I don't know, that hurts. That's the thing that hurts. Yeah, I agree. That causes me to be reflective is the gap. So, you know, I mean, patience and kindness, my usual drill. What is it that motivates positive behavior and constrains negative behavior? We got a lot of kindness-focused campaigns that aim to redefine social norms and
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
to reduce aggression and conflict in communities, promoting patience as a virtue discourages road rage and impulsive acts of anger. These are things that tend to work, tend to start early. model good behavior at home and at school, most importantly at home, actually allows kids to rewire their brains and become young adults that actually display these virtues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I think this stuff is really interesting. The biggest challenge of thinking about like patience and kindness is that we don't think about patience and kindness enough as the things that they are. We go about saying, be kind, be patient, And that is not introspection. That's not teaching each other what it means to be kind and patient.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
It's just words. It's just words. It's just like telling people what to do without background. I'm saying that as a parent. And it makes me reflect on the times that I've said, you have to be kind at school without actually saying, what does it look like? To be kind, because I assume everybody already knows.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
When in fact, what just reading about it this week has told me, I often don't really know what the kind answer is to a particular conflict situation.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
V-I-P-A-S-S-A-N-A.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Because neither of us could add, and we got to the end, and I think it was... Our choice was... You know, we could always do 13 episodes. And you said, nope, we do 12. That's all we do ever. Really? Well, I'm just thinking as a fan, the people will revolt.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Yeah, because it was like 45 minutes ago. No. No, we've been recording for 45 minutes. So it probably 90 minutes ago, 90 minutes ago, because I've had a morning filled with just busyness. And that causes a lot of anxiety. Like, when am I going to meet the next day, I had to call you and say, hey, I need to push a little bit because I'm not ready. And it's because my day's out of hand.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I felt bad about that. I was not being kind nor patient to myself. And we've talked about it before. The worst insults you'll ever hear are the insults you use on yourself. And that's just a thing I'm always working on. And having to stop, and I really did. I stopped before we came online when I wrote to you and I said, I'm ready. And I thought, Tom is a calming factor in my life.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I'm going to be ready for that. I'm going to come in open. to not being triggered or angry or impatient and just ready to like laugh and talk about these things and curious about whatever comes next, not anxious that I haven't done enough or I'm not ready enough, you know, or that just curious. If I could just be curious about what comes next in this show, it'll be fine.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Real calming factor. Real calming factor. And now, The Patience of Ordinary Things by Pat Schneider.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
It was the summer of 1939. War loomed on the horizon as a shadow crept across Europe. In a dimly lit office in Whitehall, London, a group of civil servants toiled away on a top secret mission. They're tasked to create a series of posters to bolster the morale of the British people in the event of invasion.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Three designs were chosen, each bearing a simple yet stirring phrase in the symbolic Tudor crown. The first poster urged, freedom is in peril, defend it with all your might. The second, your courage, your cheerfulness, your resolution will bring us victory. And the third, well, the third would remain shrouded in mystery for years to come.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
As the summer waned and war broke out, the first two posters were distributed across the country and plastered on billboards and windows. But the third poster, with its now famous phrase, was never officially sanctioned for public display. Over two million copies were printed, only to disappear into the dusty archives of history.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
The few that made their way into shop windows and government offices were soon forgotten as the war raged on. Some say the design was too similar to the other two posters. Others claim it was held back in anticipation of a German invasion that never came to pass. Whatever the reason, the poster and its message faded into obscurity as the paper was pulped and recycled to aid the war effort.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
For over 60 years, only a handful of original copies survived, tucked away in attics and closets, unaware of the power their simple message would one day hold. That is, until one serendipitous day in the year 2000 at a small secondhand bookshop in Northeast England. The shop owner was sorting through a box of dusty old books when a flash of red caught his eye amidst the yellowed pages.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
As he pulled out the small poster, he couldn't help but chuckle. at the irony of the simple yet apropos phrase printed in bold white letters. It's wine o'clock somewhere. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. It actually read, live, laugh, love. I did it again. I totally had you. This is a riot. No, it was the keep calm and carry on poster.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
You know the one because it's on a mug sitting in the people also bought section on Amazon where you look for world's second best lawyer Tumblr. Not a joke. Anyway. Little did he know the stoic British wartime slogan that had been lost to time would go on to become a cultural phenomenon, a reminder to stay strong in the face of adversity and stay patient for the long fight ahead.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
What began as a failed wartime propaganda campaign has now inspired countless generations to do just that. Keep calm and carry on and laugh and love and drink too. Want to join a club that doesn't even need a wartime slogan to be cool? Become a feeling friend today.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
For just $35, you can get your patriotic jolt of the old-fashioned way, knowing that you're a supporter of this season of all the feelings. Plus, you'll get access to your very own member-only podcast feed, chock full of member-only extended editions of our episodes, member-only episodes, our trailer archive, just so much stuff. So jump in now.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Support the season and know you're also supporting us and our continuing efforts to launch our own political party, the Anxietatem Party, under the banner of the ostrich. This week's update, look for our new wartime poster, Always Aware, Never Prepared. Visit allthefeelings.fund to show your wartime support today.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
G.N. Roses.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I bet it'd be patchy as heck. What would I give to see you in a beard? AI?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I think ours is every two months.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I'm trying to imagine. Like, do you want us to send an ambulance because you might be drowning in the water we're pumping into your apartment? Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And just so you know, that's about $21 a minute. Yes. Based on your bill.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Not at all.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
All the time. Everyone calls customer service.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
But still, I still live in my apartment and I'm doing great. And yet I'm going to pitch it to Disney Plus because, you know, they might want to get a tight six episodes out of it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
It'll be experimental, and that's what'll get people to watch. I think probably kindness is my number one attribute in a human being. I'll put it before any of the things like courage or bravery or generosity or anything else.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I like themes too, and I think I had two big awakenings. One, the number of, well, it's seven out of seven, pretty much, the number of sins that were used to control people throughout history for reasons that were not based in moral fabric. They're used to control people. That was illuminating to me, I think.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And the other is the number of sins that today can be seen as virtues in some cultural context. That is alarming. And also, you know, let lust off the hook, everybody. Come on. Sure.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Well, this is super fun to answer the question that no one's asked yet. Are we coming back? Well, guys, yep.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
You never know.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
But I do know that we have already scheduled hiatus episodes for members. We've got five of those bad boys in the tank.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
So you're saying there's a chance. Okay. Thank you everybody so much for joining us. We appreciate you being here and hanging out. This week's tune is Sin Control by Donner and Ty.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
And I'm Pete Wright. And this has been All the Feelings, Sins, and Virtues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
That was an excellent exercise, though, don't you think? In the world of AI, we just really are crushing it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I want to know what you think about when you think of patience and kindness, especially right now. And I'm going to date us, right? I'm going to date us probably pretty hardcore because as we record this, we've wrapped up the Chicago DNC. Right. And have you watched any of it?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Nope. What was your take on the general tone and tenor of the DNC? It's a loaded question.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I think so, too. And I think, you know, the watching just the clips that seem to have resonated out of the DNC, the clips of of Waltz's son crying in the audience. And I mean, those kinds of things I find really moving and motivating in a way that the antithesis of those feelings do not. Right. Right. It's it's harder to motivate in response to rage and and.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
It is interesting.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I was not robbed or murdered. Yeah, exactly. I still take water out to traffic accidents at the corner. We're okay. I think that is the most interesting perspective is when your worldview runs headlong into a contrasting ideology.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
What we're hearing is one thing. What we experience is something completely different. And I can choose to believe what I experience or believe what I hear. But when you can't rationalize those two things, I think you run into just confusion. And I have less confusion in some of the messaging that I'm hearing now from Chicago.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
So, you know, patience traditionally seen as the ability to endure difficult circumstances. According to the histories, circumstances include delay, provocation, or adversity without becoming annoyed or upset. It's often associated with forbearance, perseverance, and the ability to wait calmly. Okay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
So I'm interested in some of those words because that's not necessarily, I mean, we look at patience, the capacity or habit or fact of being patient, bearing pains or trials calmly without complaint, right? I think those things are in alignment, but that's never what I think about when I think of patience. When I think of patience, I think about, oh, I need to chill out because someone's late.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
I'm line committed. That's totally it. And not, oh my gosh, I'm being provoked. Right? Patience is not the thing I call on if somebody's, you know, trying to get at me.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Yeah, but that's not a heavenly virtue restraint.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
You spend a lot of time at Ralph's, yeah. What's interesting about the way you said this is that patience doesn't necessarily have to be a passive response. Patience isn't just standing there. Patience can be an active internal journey to do something which is not get provoked. What happens if patience becomes active?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Well, maybe it's all in the same bucket, but maybe that's what it is. I feel like mindfulness, then it becomes mindfully aware of where I am in space and the interactions that I have with people around me. And I can exacerbate difficult situations by being aggressive. Or I can actively choose not to act in a way that would make things worse. I think that's the interesting thing about it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
A type of kindness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So kindness, another of the heavenly virtues. You know, I mean, kindness, friendliness, consideration. It is seen as the antidote to envy. And it is really a central theme in many religious teachings, right? It's a banger in spiritual circles. That's what the Pope says. Kindness is a banger.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Unto you. Throughout history, kindness has been used to foster community and social cohesion. Foster, yep. What do you think about that? Like social cohesion encourages people to act selflessly and consider the well-being of others.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
How then do you see kindness and patience? The dynamic duo of passive goodwill. Yep. How do you see these things motivating and constraining modern culture?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
He gives away a bunch of stuff.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
What's interesting is I think you're actually describing Vipassana. What? Have you ever heard of Vipassana? No. What? Vipassana? Can you spell it? Vipassana. Can I spell Vipassana? Yeah. V-I-P-A-S-S-A-N-A.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I. Fair enough. Go ahead. So Vipassana is an ancient Indian meditation technique. Okay. Okay. And... It's, it's why I mean, like 2500 years old, this, this thing, Vipassana, and it is a practice of transformation through self observation. or just general observation of the world.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
So it focuses on the deep connection between mind and body and curiosity about that experience and what you're seeing, what you're taking in from your senses. And it encourages exploration there. So Vipassana meditation is a meditation of curiosity. I interviewed a Vipassana expert on a different show. And it was fascinating because on the surface...
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
And it is such a myth, right? It's such a grotesque misinterpretation of humans living together, that particular thing. To me, I think that's really tough to read, that stuff. Mostly because the data,
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
goes the other way the data says that men and women can lust equally that lust is when it becomes negative it's a loss of control but when it's positive it's erotic sexual attraction that serves a purpose right that serves a purpose in us so it is I think it's really a complicated thing because it's like a derogatory term for sexual attraction that is used to
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
No, I don't – I mean this – I think it underscores why it's such a complicated – Yeah. Like topic. Right. Because I think you're absolutely right. There is healthy sexual desire and attraction, which is good. Like we like that we support sexual attraction. And then there's what obsession, unhealthy obsession with the thing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
And that could be like you mentioned it, a lust for money, a lust for food, a lust for when lust becomes shorthand for a loss of control in our desire for a thing. That, I think, makes sense. That becomes like the maladaptive behavior. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
All the Feelings presents Sins and Virtues. This episode, Lust. Hello, everybody, and welcome to All the Feelings. I am Pete Wright, and right over there is my lusty partner in crime, Tommy Handsome.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah, now we've gone to full ASMR. Gross.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
That was the worst. So, yeah, so I don't even remember what that slur got us to.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah, lack of control, loss of control.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Maybe not. Like, okay, so I look at my own relationship, right? I think lust is an important part of a healthy sexual relationship. And I think the idea of lusting after my long-term partner is awesome. And I want to be lusted after the same way. I want to be objectified that way too. That makes it fun, right? Yeah. That's fun.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
It is super consensual and kind of like using the word lust is kind of naughty and feels like invigorating and tantalizing. And that that feels OK to me. But again, the complicated part is like, you know, meeting somebody for the first time and saying, hey, totally lusting after you right now.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah. Then it's like super seductive, but destructive at the same time.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah, that's interesting. Well, because what you're doing is you're personalizing it, right? You're talking about your state and your behavior and not the act of chase or pursuit of someone else, which then suddenly seems creepy and uninvited. I think so.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I found a number of resources that were like looking at channeling lust. Lust could be a motivating force for positive change.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Maybe. I think it goes to... Oh, gardening. Oh, crafts. Arts and crafts. A hoedown. I... I feel like that may be what they're talking about. In this case, it was just like looking at a redirection of energy and passion around things, around like goals, objects, charity, whatever it is. What I don't understand is...
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I mean, I understand trying to manufacture the feeling of the same level of energy and excitement that is behind lust. I understand the ideal. I don't understand the direct correlation because I just feel like, oh, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say I'm so horny for food bank work.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
But isn't that entire thing rooted in some way in shame?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I think the idea on the surface of finding that clarity, but isn't it like the converse is also true, that I should finish that book because I am so distracted by sex, I should be ashamed at not having the willpower to finish the book in absence of this massive distraction that I can't get myself out from under. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Right. At some level, at some level, I feel like that's I feel like that's where that hits me. And that makes me it makes me a little bit nervous to to talk about because I know like I already already dropped maladaptive behavior. I know there are there are people who's who's. relationship with sexual ideation is maladaptive and they need help, right, to regain focus.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I don't feel like any of this is necessarily talking to those people. But I also think the line between normal sexual attraction and maladaptive behavior is big and fuzzy.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
and and not clear and i think that's the that's the challenge with the whole conversation when you're talking about lust is how do you know i i feel like like what is the what what is the the red flag for being in uh uh for being attracted to someone and or being attracted to just looking at the appearance of someone and knowing that your lust is now maladaptive acting on it Yeah, I guess.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I mean, don't go to Rome. There are a lot of sexy statues. Maybe they'll get you all hot and bothered.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah. Right. Right. That's exactly what a lustful person would say.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
And we're making a hard right. That was hard, too.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I came to a place where no light shone at all, bellowing like the sea racked by a tempest, when warring winds attack it from both sides. This infernal storm, eternal in its rage, sweeps and drives the spirits with its blast. It whirls them, lashing them with punishment. I learned that to this place of punishment, all those who sin in lust have been condemned.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Those who make reason slave to appetite.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
But it is legal. I so yeah, well, let's start. So we're talking about lust. This is all part of our journey through the seven deadly sins and the seven heavenly virtues to match. And I don't know, I feel like we this is it's so funny to me as I was thinking about, you know, this topic that we haven't gotten here sooner.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Is having it come up later a problem? No, luckily. Oh, good.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
after so many seasons of anxieties, is neither one of us anxious about sexuality at all? Are we just so chill?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I'm just a boy standing in the headlights of your car. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
That was a great story, but I just want to call out real quick that Weinstein's On My Floor is somebody's biography about their experience in Hollywood with Miramax Pictures.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
You're particularly jacked today. That's what I was noticing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Thank you all so much for joining us on this lusty episode. This week's tune is Going Home With Ya by Captain Jaws. Coming up next week, humility.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
And I'm Pete Wright. Thank you for downloading. We'll be back next week right here on All the Feelings, Sins, and Virtues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
We should talk about what it is. Let me introduce my dear friend, Robotron.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
So can we start, so I'm going to, so behind the scenes, you know, every, every week, Tom and I talk about who's going to do the feeling friends bit. Right. And that's the bit in the middle where we talk about something historical and it's really delightful.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
And this week, because I'm so out of sorts and we skipped a recording week last week, I did one too, but it's Tom's week, which means I get, there is no utility for my thing any other week going forward. So we're going to talk about, just briefly, before we get into the meat, so to speak, of our conversation, we're going to get into kissing. And specifically, French kissing. Oh, okay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
What do you, I mean, like, I don't need to say it. When you think of French kissing, what do you imagine? Don't answer that question. But do you know what the technical word is for a French kiss?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
It's called a cataglottism. Oh, God, that's why I don't know. I know. That's so sexy. Anything with glot. Oh, God, it makes you lust all over the place just hearing cataglotism.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
So this was really interesting. So it's, you know, of course it would be France that would come up with this idea to kind of brand a cataglottism as a French kiss. Right. Because it's the French that are so lusty and they're the ones who say, Hey, look at that sexy mouth. I want to put my tongue in there. Right. Like that's of course, but of course that's also not true.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
So when you think about, uh, kissing, uh, it comes from the Americans and the Brits. During the war, French kissing was branded after World War One when Americans and Brits went into France and discovered what they would call a more sexually adventurous people. OK, the French.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah. Yeah. And so there are scholars that actually there are kissing scholars.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
that's that's a thing and they believe that kissing with tongues uh was actually practiced in ancient cultures because come on you've got two mouths eventually you're going to figure out how to put them together and um india and china and japan document tongue kissing ancient rome kissing with tongues was seen as a sign of affection among lovers and family members um yeah you're gonna be thinking you're gonna be thinking about that for a while i think yeah um
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
We wrote the history, so we blame it on somebody. You know what? They can have it. It's a title of honor. Good for them. They figured out something great. Sure. What was interesting to me is that there are some real – this is my American slash French kissing bias. I like to kiss. I really do. I'm a real kisser.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
You should not just kiss the alphabet is what you're saying. I'm sure I heard that somewhere.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
how do you kiss when it's not french kissing was it just well like weirdos we were well we were very prudish very prudish and and um and eventually we figured out hey it can get more popular and more fun than that um but it was also it's also this cultural thing like so when you look at the variety of different cultures appreciation of kissing for example like in spite of the kama sutra
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
India's legacy of kissing is that you don't kiss in public. You're only permitted to kiss after marriage. And then all the Kama Sutra hijinks kick in, I guess. I don't know, but it feels very much like- So it goes from zero to a hundred. To a hundred. Yeah, right. Japanese people, culturally, apparently, Kissing is it's a big kissing culture, but kissing is is directly tied to to sexual foreplay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
So they don't kiss in public because that means they're going to start having sex.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Right. On the other hand, the Germans and Austrians have embraced a much more public kissing culture. In fact, they are measured as having the longest average kisses in measured in seconds of an average of 12 seconds. The average German's public romantic kiss is 12 seconds. That's my deep, deep research.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
The Mexicans love to kiss so much that they actually are in the Guinness Book of World Records for having a kissing marathon on Valentine's Day in 2009. Okay. That also checks out.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
All the time. All across South and Central America, it is much less of a kissing culture the further south you go and to the point where people don't kiss at all and they see kissing as like a weirdly reviled kind of a thing. Why would you put your mouth on there? And then there's one last kind of kiss, the socialist fraternal kiss. Have you heard of this? No. Okay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
This kiss was exchanged between leaders of communist countries during the Cold War, and it involved a series of three kisses on alternate cheeks. And in some cases, when ideological connection ran particularly deep. Those kisses went straight for the mouth. So you'd get like Brezhnev and Marx kissing. I don't know if they ever kissed.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
That's very well known. But this was mouth kisses, the socialist fraternal kiss. And it was a demonstration of ideological lock. Like this is how close we are as countries and nations.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
What do you know when you think about lust, our topic today? What do you think about? How does it hit you? How do you feel when you think about lust?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah, for sure. We don't necessarily need to perseverate on that particular angle of the church because you're exactly right. I mean, it's a sin because it... takes away from spiritual purity and attention to the church. But what's really interesting about lust in particular is its association as original sin and its deeply gendered interpretation over sin.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
centuries and centuries and centuries right because um it is you know when you look at at the first sort of interpretations of of lust and original sin it's because of adam and eve it were were you know thrown out of the garden of even because eve was was in inciting lustful feelings in adam and tempting right the garden of temptation wait a minute is that right
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
The original sin is believed to have been a corruption of human nature introduced the inclination toward vice. Lust was a consequence of human nature's corruption, right? This is the manifestation of humanity's fallen state, right? That's where it started. That's where we started. That's the first time we started talking about it. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Like the sin, the original sin of sexual temptation and lack of purity. I see.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I know too much about the Bible. You sure do.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Yeah. The books that were not allowed in the Bible. Yes. It's like the Cimmerillion from J.R.R. Tolkien. You read a lot of that. Sure. You don't even know. Nerds are with me. Yeah, okay. I think I mispronounced it. The Cimmerillion. Oh, sure. Okay, got it. You get it now. Yeah, of course. All right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
So anyhow, the thing about lust being so super gendered, like that has stayed with us over thousands of years.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
I did some searching for the, you know, the myths of lust. And I found so many, I found a lot of pages of people talking about the immodest woman, right? That it is, and this is the genderfication of lust. This is the big misconstruction of lust that blaming women for dressing a certain way, looking a certain way, behaving a certain way, for creating an environment that is lusty in men.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And do remember to keep the most excellent 80s movies podcast motto in mind.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
That's that's kind of where I feel like I started reading about this stuff. I was like, oh, this will be a fun one because, you know, that scene in seven is so great and gross and we'll talk about food. And then I realized, oh, this is actually actually underpins the unraveling of our entire culture and society. So that's great. That does not feel as good as I wanted it to.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I better have a Snickers.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Gluttony by Joseph S. Salemi.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I'm famous for splurging at fast food places. I'm currently obsessed with Taco Bell's bean and cheese burritos with extra green sauce and extra cheese. Gluttony.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Oh, absolutely. The twins of success, hunky and dory.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I can't believe it's been so long.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Oh, we're on the farm. We're on the ranch.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
When you're coming out of a meditation, it's best to do it like cold turkey. As abruptly as possible. As abruptly as possible. Yeah. You just have like an air horn next to your box of Kleenexes. Right. How are you feeling, Pete? Feel good? I don't understand why you decided to, your segment made me feel so bad. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
We did Chastity. That was good. You'll remember Chastity because of the Bluetooth-enabled lock for your genitals.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Well, I just want to ask because I'm such a narcissist. What have I been saying about – what has Head Pete been saying to you? You are free and clear.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah, good. Because if your ears are burning and literally on fire, that's a problem.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And I am hurting. And today, yeah, we're talking about gluttony. We're talking about gluttony over the years and our relationship with gluttonous behavior. And, oh, I'm here for it. It's once again, like chastity, made me a little mad.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yes. You're in charge of the light and the cues and everything. Right. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Three to four weeks. All right. What was the what was the first one? Was that the show that you did?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Like, it's just, I think it's sometimes good to remind yourself in the cold light of podcasts. What is the utility of that? Right. Like so rethinking about that. And I you know, it's sort of a meaning. What do I see? What do I think I'm getting out of it? What is the utility of of relitigating your performance in that video after the the initial curve of enthusiasm has has sort of gone down?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Let's just start with the performance because I think that's the interesting thing. You picked up on this performance and you felt so strongly about your head canon of it that you decided to initiate a review of it with the director. Right? And you open yourself up to criticism in a way that feels a little bit like... You know, remember the young ones at Great British Show?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Well, in order to get there, we need to engage the support of our own AI malcontent, the ATF robot. Robot?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah, BBC, MTV. Yeah, it was on MTV here.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
It's just awful. British humor is outstanding. But that's kind of what it feels like to me, right? Like, it's all dissipated. So I want to ask the utility of opening this up again and trying to find pain and recruit others into examining pain on your behalf. Right. How good is it?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
No, I think it does make sense. It makes a lot of sense from the irrational I'm up at night thing. But also because I know you are you have when there is that conversation, potential conversation that's happening outside of your purview. You want to regain control of the narrative, right? Like I'm a part of this. If I'm not a part of it, I have no agency.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
But it only works. Like that whole plan is great. Like I am an absolute advocate for imagining the worst so that when something slightly better but also bad happens, it's not as bad. But that only works if you can stop yourself from perseverating about it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
We've had incredible guests like actress Dee Wallace, cinematographer Eric Messerschmidt, director Steve Miner, and former Disney animators Tom and Tony Bancroft.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
This goes back to the first definition of gluttony, right? That habitually greedy and voracious eating and drinking and will substitute eating and drinking for negative behavior. sort of negative narcissistic thought spirals. Right. Right. Maybe our favorite word, perseveration. Right. Exactly. And so I think that's the, that's the, the piece that like it's habitually greedy. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And I am, I really think that, that an object lesson here is to figure out like, how do you break that habit? If you get into this spiral and you are unaccustomed to being in that spiral and you are not living with sort of, um, you know, chemical imbalanced OCD, um,
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
that leads you to those sorts of spirals that maybe there is something that you can, you can think about that, uh, allows you to break that habit, find some new triggers. You know what I mean? You know, and, and I would say like, does, does it potentially coincide with a change in medication? What does Bonnie say?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I have not brought it up to Bonnie yet because that is the sign of a perseverative narcissist right there. Interesting. Okay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
There was a change in something. There was a change in something. And I think that that's one of the most interesting things for me. It's like I can go on a med for a long, long time and there is no change. But something changes in me that causes the medication to have a different effect. And right now, everything's hunky-dory. I'm feeling fine.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
But everything you're describing says to me that something changed, and it's either emotional, behavioral, or chemical.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah, right. I think it's – man, it's so hard when – because those part of the – The reason those things are so diabolical, these kinds of changes in patterns, is because it is a specific lack of agency or lack of control that allows them to fester. Right. And it is only when it's like, I don't know, it's like ants in your kitchen, right? You see one.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I'm so sorry. I even brought that up. But for the listener, I feel like I have to finish. You see one, then that's one thing. But you see a couple more, and there might be a million in your wall. Nope. Nope. Nope. You see one, and you say, that's the only ant in the world.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Well, and I don't think, yeah, I think that's like, you know, we talk about other, as the evolution of gluttony has, as it's adapted over the cultural shifts of our Anthropocene era, like the glutton for punishment is the other most used term, right? Like that's exactly what you are right now. This is the worst and you are begging for more of it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And repetitive and negative thought spirals is no joke.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
What do you think? I think it's good. I think you need to make sure that it's balanced with some conversation to their face.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
It's just fascinating to me where this came from, right? Because, of course, gluttony is classified as one of the seven deadly sins, naturally. It's why we're here. But why? Why was it a deadly sin? Do you know? Like, do you have a sense?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I'm about to aggro fan fiction. The fact that I can see your nipples through that tight shirt, dude, and it's unpleasant and you should just know about that because my journal is going to be heavy with ink tonight.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
I told God, I'm coming to your country. I'm going to eat up your cities, your homes. You know, I've got a stomach full. It's not a chip on my shoulder. I've got this growl in my tummy. And I'm gonna stop it today. I eat too much. I drink too much. I want too much. Too much. Thank you all so much for joining us this episode. This week's tune is The Lollipop is Poppin' by Captain Jaws. Jaws. Nope.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Jaws. Yeah. It says Joe, but that was an autocorrect. It's actually Captain Jaws.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah. Coming up next week, Tommy, what are we talking about?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Anakin is not a great example.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
He was good, then very bad.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah, you did. That's not great. No, okay. All of this is staying in, by the way.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
So we're just staying in gluttony from now on? We're going to be in gluttony for a while, everybody.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And I'm Pete Wright. Thanks for downloading. We'll be back next week right here with all, and I mean all, the feelings.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yes. I think about Monty Python and the Holy Grail. When I think about this concept, because what you just said is spot on. Right. And in the beginning, in the medieval times, right. When you had like, you remember when they have the filth farmers, they come and talk to the people and they're like, Oh, and they're just like moving. And they're just moving mud around. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And they, they start talking about politics. And I think that's really, really funny because, you know, the church is,
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
came together and said gluttony is a serious moral failing right if you are taking more as you said more of than your share then you are contributing to moral decay and spiritual emptiness but also we don't have the capacity to make enough food for everyone so we need you all to believe that it's a moral failing so you won't eat so much so it's just a survivor manual again right Yeah. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And so being religious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly it. And that's why when food production improves, it's the French who are the first to lift up their heads and say, hey, you know what? It turns out we actually like food and. When we put our minds and hearts to it, we're really good at it. And so they came up with this synonym for gluttony, gourmandise, which is the variant gourmand, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Gourmet. That's a synonym for gluttony that has a positive connotation.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Well, I think you're right on both counts, right? But what we're talking about here is that food production improves, scarcity decreases, attitudes change, right? And gluttony becomes something that's less of a cardinal sin and more of a, I ate too much and I'm sick. And that leads to more modern sort of interpretations of gluttony.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
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All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And I think that's where it gets really interesting because we have... You know, the certain understanding of eating and mental health, eating disorders, binge eating disorder. Right. And those are very, very complicated mental health disorders. But there are actually reports of religious figures petitioning the pope to say we need to take gluttony off the list. It's just it's really too much.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah, there are. It's just a really sort of complicated, you know, complicated thing. And because we have such a moral, it has such moral weight, it's hard to change cultures. But just like the French did, when scarcity decreased, you can change cultural identity around culture.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
gluttony so i think it's really interesting and gluttony has the way it's evolved over time is when the first thing i think of when i think of gluttony is seven and the second thing i think of when i think of gluttony is wall street oh sure oh sure right
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
So that's the thing that's actually more interesting to me about all of this is that it went from this thing that we were so preoccupied with food and having this moral failing, spiritual emptiness related to food. And now gluttony implies greed of other things, taking more than your share. How do you relate to that?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
sin that's interesting i've never thought about the relationship between the two before isn't that interesting i think it's really interesting how do you separate gluttony from greed like gluttony is and maybe that's why we're you know we look at the changing impact of gluttony as a cardinal sin it's sort of already covered right right it's also already covered in lust right like uh you know we've got this sort of over indulgence in a thing and we have decided
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Yeah, I can totally get that. And I think that's why we get so much. That's why I think about Wall Street, right? Right. That's why I think about this idea of gluttony and its relationship to capitalism.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And the change from feudalism to a capitalist market was a drive for power and acquisition and consumption, right? And that's sort of how we land here. where we are today, a consumerist society that has no real democratic, significant democratic ownership of goods. And as a result, we each need our own thing of everything that we have, and we need to consume
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And when COVID strikes, we need all the toilet paper. We're in buttons for a toilet paper. Right. Like those those kinds of things, I think, are are a really interesting model for how we think of acquisition and consumption and frankly, continuous growth and profit. Right. Profit is we can be gluttons for profit, too. Sure. So it feels to me this is why I think this is so interesting.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Like if you look at the bell curve of like, you know, understanding of gluttony, it starts as a moral sin, but it's a moral sin to drive appropriate consumption of food because we can't produce enough food and people are starving. Then we figure out how to handle food. That changes in the Middle Ages a little bit.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And we have entire cultures that develop around appreciating food and eating a lot of it, especially when we look at, you know, the royals, right? Like those are the best examples of lampooning gluttony, right? Is that they have these feasts of forging themselves. Like that's the stereotype. Gluttony changes and it's sort of becoming a sin again, right? Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
It's Chrissy and Nathan from the Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Like we look at the people who are hurt by a culture of consumption and profit, the furthers class separation. And I think that's all rooted in sort of the evolution of gluttony toward capitalism.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Well, and you I think you just made a really good point that it's that it is gluttony is the immediacy of consumption to write like that is the present that's living in the now and consuming in the now. Like, yeah, like being able to to do that. Do you have a tendency to be a glutton over anything?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Kind of makes my tongue hurt after too many.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Join us for delightful discussion, rollicking recaps, ratings, and deep-cut recommendations.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
So this is what I'm getting at. And I feel like this was the interesting awakening for me is that this cardinal sin of gluttony, this thing that is in this movie that is so important to both of us that was a horrific, sequence in the movie, you know, this cardinal sin actually sprouted a whole new thing for us to feel bad about, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
That we have created this overconsumption culture that is truly damaging because we're only able to live in the present. And I think that the shift towards sustainable consumption has to involve
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
reducing individual consumption, just like the pope did in the 17th century, and also challenges these underlying economic systems and social structures and things that we've put into place that are poisoning us.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Or by like six o'clock that night.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
This is what I've been thinking about so much, which is just, and I think you, you just opened the door to it, which is how quickly we trick ourselves into believing this thing is normal and indispensable.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Download the most excellent 80s movies podcast today at truestory.fm.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And it goes back to what you were saying earlier, like as a kid, like someday I'll – well, as soon as the floor resets, someday I'll have all of the whatever it is that we are fascinated about. So I think it's really – like I laugh about it because – It is to keep you from screaming, not laugh. You would be screaming. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah, right, right. And so you have these, like there are psychological traits that are linked to greed. And in terms of personality and psychopathology, greed is linked to antagonism, disinhibition, and negative affectivity. It's associated with negative emotional states like depression, anxiety, which we already said. And can deteriorate self-esteem and life satisfaction.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
So it eats away at your own sense of self-worth.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yes. You know why? That's what I get from it. Yeah. Yeah. It shares similarities with narcissism, both arising from the sense of self-doubt and the need for external validation. While narcissism involves emotional self-aggrandizement, greed focuses on material accumulation. But both are addressing the same whole. Got it. Right? That's the thing that feels so gross to me.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
There is something about this idea that That any of our desire to have a thing, right, is motivated by something else we're running from.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah. When legacy is one of those terms that should be approached with both capital L legacy and lowercase L legacy. And most people think that they're building capital L legacy when really what is most important is small L legacy. The stuff you leave behind is your, you know, the most important relationships. We hear this all the time. What the hell is it going to take to believe it?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
What did what did when Harry met Sally, wasn't there a bit in when Harry met Sally about rationalizations and orgasms? Have you ever gone a whole day without a rationalization? Do you remember that bit? No. There's a bit about rationalizations orgasms that orgasms are the most important thing that we strive for. And the argument is, no, it's rationalizations.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Have you ever gone a day without a rationalization? Well, that's how I rationalize that acquisition is that, well, I'm using the whole buffalo. I really am investing my time in trying to do better, create better, and be better with the stuff.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Are you greedy about anything? Like, does it feel, do you have the same? I don't mean greedy about anything. Do you have the same sense that I have about my, my devices that are important to me about anything?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Hi everybody, it's me, it's Pete, and this is Tom, and we are... I don't know how to do a podcast.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
It's just to prove that when people walk in that you know how to read. I think so.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
It's like, but that's back to the idolatry, right? Like, like that's the, that is like part of the definition is that you're putting the thing above the acquisition and demonstration of the thing above, you know, all else. I, you know, I don't know.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
If you start now. By the time the iPhone 17 or 18 come out. You'll be, you're, yeah. I'll have everybody covered. You'll be in a real groove at that point. They'll write themselves. Well, AI could help. I'll just have AI do it. There's nothing problematic with that idea. Oh, no, not at all.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Well, there's a mall and there's like trunk parties, you know, at school parking lots where everybody puts candy in the trunk and you go around. That's not a thing you probably ever did. Yes, people trick-or-treat. Okay. But I do think there are, you know, there are other gatherings, especially for younger kids to get the job done in other ways.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
How are you, Pete? Today's a big one. It is a big one. I feel like this is one... We're in Sinville, and we are... This is one that is... Close to our hearts because it's also, you know, has an anthem in the form of the movie Wall Street.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
There is a mentality where kids are like, well, hey, it's one house for each of us. We'll take it all and then no more trick-or-treating.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
I didn't say anything, of course, because I was – Only on Halloween does your social justice warrior persona come out.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
What do you know about marshmallows? Tell us. Well, the marshmallow test is the, I don't remember who pioneered the marshmallow test.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
I wasn't there. Yep. That's what I'm saying. You couldn't make it. Everything I know is hearsay. Yeah. that they would put people in front of the table, and there are all kinds of different ways to execute the marshmallow test. You can say, hey, I'll give you a marshmallow right now, and you can have it, or you can sit here for some...
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
an amount of time and not eat the marshmallow, but look at it. And at the end, I'll give you a whole bag of marshmallows or $1,000 or whatever, right? And so do you take the immediate gratification and go steal more candy? Or do you sit there and get gift candy after you are forced to wait while looking at the marshmallow? Is that close?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
It's literally written in the title of the show. Weird, right? The ghost has been given.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
It's one of those things, not specifically, but I feel like I kind of knew there was a craze about it as a parent of kids, right? Like you hear about it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Talk more about that. What is that? Untrustworthy where?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
You're setting a standard.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah, that's really interesting.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
So what's so fascinating about that, it connects to what we were talking about before Ponzi Alley, which was what do you need to do to cultivate anti-greed behavior? What are the things that you do if you really are struggling with greed and these feelings and the behaviors that lead you to do things like fight scarcity with greed? What do you do?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
There's a cognitive behavioral therapy, a therapeutic intervention. You can address feelings about money and self-worth and healthier attitudes toward possessions and all those things. But at its root is let's reframe your feelings about or your understanding of empathy. Right? Right? Because that would have addressed all of these things. It would have shifted from a me, me, me to a we, we, we.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yes. Exerting their Halloween vent. And you're right. The marshmallow test really doesn't address that. But the marshmallow test isn't designed to address empathy, I guess, in that regard, right? It's not like you're looking at here's one marshmallow and you could have it or you could cut it into 10 tiny pieces for all of these orphans. That would be different. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
That would be a different test. Yeah. And just like pretending to be an asshole in front of a preschooler does not lead toward lessons in empathy. Correct.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
I don't know. I just think that greed in a... This is a show... Here's the thing. I am coming at this without a whole lot of knowledge about the pop culture view of greed in the rest of the world.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Let's go. Let's go back to Gordon Gekko. Okay. Because greed is good. Greed works. Greed is good. This is something really interesting to me. What is going on for this character that was created as a form of dark satire of Western culture that did exactly what you're talking about with a lot of money behind it? Right? This guy was extraordinarily wealthy.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
And he used that wealth essentially to take the whole bowl of candy off of the porch. Right. Right? I mean, is there something more going on with, I guess, Western finance than that, than just this desire because we're manufacturing scarcity and we're going to create our own alternative to it by just taking everything that we can?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah, good.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
My view of greed is rooted in Western capitalistic kind of foundations. Sure. And it's not great. It's not going great. You mean America's reputation or just generally what you think of? Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's so loaded. Like it's such a heavily loaded term. And I also think that there are a lot of people who feel like greed is a motivator these days and not a classic, you know, cardinal sin.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Well, I'll tell you. I mean, we are sort of, I don't know, we kind of exemplify that, right? In the family, we have a business that was thriving for 18 years, and it was sold to essentially a venture capital-backed firm in acquisition mode. And here we are two years later, and that company doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist anymore. They created nothing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
They only destroyed as an effort to move figures around a spreadsheet. So I don't know that I would have had the same sort of feeling that this entire mechanism is quite so poisonous had we not lived through it. It is poison. It's poison. To have something just stripped for parts.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
At its grossest. At its very worst. And I think it is the lack of empathetic approach to these things, like not realizing what the true value is. And the true value is what the people there create. Like you said, what is the painted house of that business? And do you realize that when you're moving these figures around, you may be doing damage to the painted house?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
And in fact, in this case, you were lighting the house on fire. Right. I find that just horrifying. It's just horrifying. And so I think that goes back to empathy, right? And that is what the Gordon Gekko exemplifies. That's what all of the things like we, you know, the fight back against the Gekko in that movie is the empathetic one. It's like, look at all the people.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
The people are standing up for what they do. And I think that's the... That's the thing that puts me sideways behind rationalizing acquisition at scale. Right. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
You're really taking us down the severance road. Maybe we could play some aggressive jazz at the time.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Next week, our last show, because we do 12-episode seasons and we have too many things to talk about, we're talking about patience and kindness. I don't remember how we got there, but it's going to be great. We're going to find a way to weaponize patience and kindness because that's what we do.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Well, that sounds great. Until then, you're Pete Wright. You're Tommy Metz III. Thanks for downloading. We'll be back next week with all the feelings, sins, and virtues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Exactly. I'm just going to this greed for lack of a better purpose motivates me to succeed. Right. I want things. Therefore, I fight hard for them. I work long hours. I make choices in order to acquire.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah, well, that is the thing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
So here's the thing. When you look at – I don't know if you know this, but the Bible has an opinion. Yep. Something about camels.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
No, that was outstanding. I love how you just had that right off the dome. It was perfect. It could not have been stated better. This is the thing about sort of the biblical definition. It was viewed as a spiritual and moral failing, right? Described as excessive and selfish desire for more than is needed. It's pretty much what robots said, which is really important.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
It's also linked to idolatry as it places material wealth above spiritual devotion and ethical behavior.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah, love of money is the root of all evil. That's the Bible thing, right? That's the Bible thing I got. So spiritual and moral failing in the Bible, pop culture definition, natural human inclination with social implications, right? Okay. It's a moral failing, but it's also human nature. Okay. That's what's confusing about this stuff, right? Because it's just so natural.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Yeah, idolatry and spiritual ruin or... Economic growth and social responsibility.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Right. Especially when greed is so tied to economic growth leads to spiritual distance from God and ruin. Can drive innovation, but also cause societal harm. But innovation is the thing that we tend to lean on. Like, hey, we work harder. We have factories that, you know, I just read this article that they're gearing up for iPhone 16 manufacturing. Whoa.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
And that they just hired 50,000 new factory workers in Taiwan to put these things together. That is an extraordinary number of people living in factory dorms to make a thing that we, like, what is the motivation behind wanting the new phone? And I have a hard time with this because I want the new phone, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's where does it become selfish or excessive?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
That's the line. That's the thing. This is what I tell my wife. There are certain areas of technology that I love and I want to keep up on. And I say, look, I don't have any girlfriends outside of our marriage. I don't do a lot of drugs. I don't gamble.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
These are my vows at the wedding. I don't even remember what that is. I don't gamble. There's just so many things I don't spend money on. And here is an area that's important to me, is the gear. I feel like by these definitions, in this one area, I am greedy. Right. Well, how do you feel about that? Pretty good and bad.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
You have a – But it also does global harm. I think you can make more of a case that my greed is doing 50,000 people. Extensive harm to humanity because that represents the capitalist footprint, and that's the thing I feel so shaky about. Like my consumerist habits – Um, and the things that are important to me that are material. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Are, uh, have, you know, wide ranging reaching ripples in that particular bond. And so then it gets back to like, how is greed associated with materialism and the things that you just want? How is greed associated with your DVD collection? Oh, Pete. Pearls.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Different show, Tom. That was charity. We already covered it. We're not talking about that. It's not opportunity costs.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
How many parentheses do you think you've used so far? I do commas. You're a Russian nesting doll of commas.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Well, it doesn't feel greedy because I didn't have to do anything for it. Yeah. That's not right. That is great.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
I, I have to, I do, this is the thing that I wanted to land on. This is if we're lack of a better, a better direction, this is my bit. Um, I wanted to talk about modern psychological theories on materialism, and I have summarized a couple of sources thus. Modern psychological theories describe materialism as a value system that prioritizes possessions and wealth as key to personal happiness,
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
and social progress. Materialism is often linked to negative mental health outcomes such as depression and anxiety, and it fosters a continuous cycle of desire and then dissatisfaction. The pursuit of material goods is seen as a coping mechanism that ultimately fails to provide lasting fulfillment, leading to lower life satisfaction and well-being.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
It is the pursuit that is emotionally damaging because the acquisition of things that you are in pursuit of leads to a very short dopamine hit of satisfaction and immediately back into the cycle of pursuit and acquisition.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
You think it's shaped in the form of an iPhone, but it's not. It's always shaped in the form of next year's iPhone.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Here's another show you can enjoy in the True Story FM family of entertainment podcasts.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
So, yeah, that's Chastity Belts, the thing that wasn't a thing and now is a thing. And I love it. I like when things sort of come all around. I mean, that was, speaking of a roller coaster, that went up and down and all around. And where we are now is a sign of empowerment, which is great.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Hold on, I'm locking myself up.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Be excellent to each other and... Party on, dudes.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
May I butt in with a question or maybe you can tell me to punt it if it's not the right time. Yeah. What was so the reason was because sometimes like especially with religion, certain rules start as like a survivor manual. Don't eat this at this time because we didn't have refrigeration.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Pete, we are halfway through this season already. This is the halfway mark. Last time was what, Wrath? Oh, and then we're really turning things on its head because today, Chastity, Pete, it's like the sweetest, the most demure of all of these things. Did you know much, before we get to Robot, did you know that much about the idea of Chastity going into this?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Don't even potentially you can see the idea of anti-homosexuality because we need procreation or else the tribe will die. And so the idea being what was the reason for this? Was it disease rampant or was it just like what was the social reason or was it just straight doing this? If you're having too much intercourse, you're not thinking about God enough.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
I do. I actually just said when you were saying how we used to think about women, I said the word hysterical. Yes, that we had floating uteruses and things that they were completely bound up because of the way that they were made. They were incapable of managing their own emotions, feelings, actions, all of that. Yes, gross.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
And is that because we're saying that it's about health, but really it's just about control and we don't want women to be free? It's got to be, right? It's usually societal control also of women. Okay, got it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
That's the survival manual part. Okay, got it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yeah. I mean, the dogma's dogma. It is the rules for people that believe in it. And so I don't know if you can take it completely out of it. But I mean, there was talking about When I was in high school, college probably, or maybe way after, I'm bad at timing, but there was that whole resurgence of the purity movement. And that was with young people, famously.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Famously, like the Jonas Brothers all wear purity rings and then stopped wearing them at some point, which is totally fine. But yeah, I mean, they have these resurgences sometimes. And unfortunately, that can lead to... I'm always so fascinated by how we try to approach abstinence with youth and how it doesn't necessarily work.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Meaning, that's just not one of those sins or virtues that you talk about that much.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
that the idea of just doing that versus providing a safe contraception, things like that, uh, might attack certain ideas better. But yeah, that's not chastity though. That's enabling. So I'm not sure.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Nailed the right reason. Octomom? She's still in the news.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yeah, that's the best clue.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yeah, what is it? All I know is it seems to be long.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
So one is redirecting it, one is turning it off like a light switch.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
I'll be like two things are happening. He's in a cave and he's trying something new. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
No holding back. No hold back, Pete. That's what they never called you. Okay.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Like a six hour long Tantra session. Yeah, right. You're not actually touching each other. or something right yeah and he's always dressed like his character in that first dune yeah he's always dressed like that first character yeah if you don't know what i'm talking about look up sting david lynch dune and enjoy your own town trip experience i will
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Well, so let's, should we get, should we ask Robot to get everybody on the same page?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Hey, Robot, wake up. Please define chastity.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
It's very transactional versus emotional.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yeah. Like a horse that needs to be put down.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Oh, well, all right. Nailed it. Okay, then, Robot, let's go for number two. Please define chaste.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
practice right with the new and then i mean the huge backlash why we don't talk about purity culture anymore is there was an enormous backlash from it talking about that it was just shame based and people were growing up filled with shame and regret and grossness and feeling like they must be dirty because they're feeling these dirty things and yes erotically lame is officially the title of my autobiography
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Before we go out on tour? Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yeah. When you're doing your crowd work. I completely, completely agree. I think the best thing, you've said 900 best things in this episode, but my favorite one is always black and white. Whenever we reduce things to black and white, that's where the mistakes are made. It's a cliche to say, but life is in the gray. That's the whole point.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
But finding your gray that makes the most sense for you, but is also helping another person, is also doing things in a healthy, fulfilling, and hopefully meaningful way, will always be a more valuable experience. And you will not find that in the black and white.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
It's the right thing for you unless you're being pushed into it by your community. If it wasn't your idea or if it's peer pressure or your flock or your anything, if you're doing it just to be able to fit in with people, then that's not. A hundred percent.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
It's like intermittent fasting.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Right. Well, Sting would, apparently. I don't know what he's doing. Brother's got errands. I can't.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Okay, so that was four different definitions of the same word. That was a bit of a roller coaster. It went from bad sex to all sex to let's just conduct ourselves nicely to that dress is a little gaudy. We're in favor of Scandinavian design aesthetic. Yeah. So sex is definitely on the table. Listeners, you will be aware of that.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
All of that was true. We are eight years old. We are. Next week. So let's see. This was Chastity showing a lot of restraint. And tomorrow we're loosening our belts, Pete. Because next episode we are talking about gluttony.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yeah, I thought you at first were saying a glutton for jazz, and I thought that was fun. I'm a real glutton for jazz. It's the notes they don't play. Yeah, so we're going to be talking about gluttony, which is exciting and already gross. Already gross. Yeah, the first thing I'm thinking of, nachos. Until then, I'm Pete Wright. And I am Tommy Metz III. Thank you so much for downloading.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Six down, six to go. We will be back next week with all the feelings, sins, and virtues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
uh is on the table but there's also a certain demureness or restraint that has to do with the word chastity which i've never thought of before so that is very interesting thank you robot take the rest of the episode off um do we have any opening ideas that we want to talk about or pete there is because you know i like to zoom in i know and zoom in hard i was wondering if you want me to just zoom in real quick everything is going to be a it's not this is an innuendo yeah
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
I was going to say, Mr. Pita, that's you. When you think of chastity, is there a certain type of, I don't know, clothing or apparatus that comes in your mind? Because there's one that the very first thing and actually I've talked to three different people about the fact that we were recording that this week. All of them brought up one thing. The belt. The belt, the chastity belt.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yes, I think one person, because we were going from wrath to chastity, it was drop the whip and put on the belt. That's the transition they were doing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
What do you know of chastity belts? What were their purpose? When? How were they used? I know the answer, but I would like to quiz you to see, because you probably would have the same amount of knowledge about them before I did research.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
And famously on the chastity belt, this medal back in the medieval times, whatever, chastity belt says Everlast. Yes. So it's like a boxer.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
And to do what? Just take us over the basic, basic finish line, and then we'll get into it. What was the point of them?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Yes. I would like to zoom in as I do hard a little bit. traditionally they were used by men in the middle ages to protect their wives virtues while they went off to war. So it's like, like you lock up your wife's downstairs and then the man has the key. He leaves. And then you're not able to, uh, the cat's not able to play while the mice is away. That's not how that phrase goes. Turn that around.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Um, That's actually, that was the old medieval phrase. That's actually quite good. Yeah. Yeah, they would be locked around a woman's hips with the key being held by the husband. And chastity belts appeared in medieval texts dating back to the 15th century. Do you want to know the earliest recording, the recorded mention of a chastity belt? Oh, God. Here we go. Judas. Nope.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
It's Conrad Kaiser von Eichstadt. the most German engineer known for designing siege technology. He apparently wrote about the device in a manuscript called Bella Fortis, which means strong in war. And it's usually, it's mainly just a catalog of military gadgets. And then in it, he included the chastity belt. That's the first time that an actual drawing and the idea was officially brought up.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Wait a minute. That's crazy.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Well, yes, because it was involved with when your people are off to war, mice and cats, whatever that phrase is. We still haven't gotten to the bottom of that phrase. Yes. Well, can I tell you something surprising? Because you already hit the nail on the head whether or not you knew it because you said you're really only – present and like cognizant of chastity belts when they're being lampooned.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
You know what, Pete, there's a surprising problem with the entire idea of chastity belts because they most likely never actually existed. What? Hold on. Instead, kind of like the term humble pie that we talked about a few episodes ago, the chastity belt was kind of a joke that got taken way too seriously later on in history.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
So chastity belts, do they actually physically exist? Yes, they can largely be seen only in museums, including the Science Museum in London. There is also a belt on display at the Musée de Cluny in Paris, which was alleged to have belonged to Catherine de Medici. It's a word I should know. Medici, the one-time queen of France.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
But here's the thing. They tested the metal in Medici's belt, and it was revealed that the metal originated in the early 19th century. That's hundreds of years after her death in 1589. What are we doing? Is this a prank? What are all these ideas? Where did these ideas come from? Okay, remember I talked about in German. He, before him, let's go back to where so many things begin.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Ancient Rome, Pete. Oh, the sights, the smells, the tunics. I found an article written by Sarah Bond, who is a professor of classics at the University of Iowa, where she explained that brides in ancient Rome wore white tunics, follows up, but with a Herculean knot. These are also known as reef knots or love knots to signify her chastity. And it's just sort of like loosely worn around her waist.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
It's not really breaking any contact, but it's there to symbolize ever-dying love and virginity. It's called a Herculean knot because it's extremely hard to untie. And then her husband would untie the knot on their wedding night. A lot of people think this is where the phrase tying the knot originated, even though it would be untying. It's untying, but we get everything wrong.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
So the idea of protecting a woman's downstairs from non-husbands started in ancient Rome. And it persisted, but only, it seems, in writing. Because Germany McGerman, von Eichstadt, who wrote about the device in his battle book, he was probably just joking. Because his book also described, like, tanks, and I'm not joking, that run on flatulence.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
What's up, most excellent friends?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
like fart tanks he talks about certain devices you can step in to be invisible like he makes literal jokes in his book alongside actual seed technology um does it seem like did anybody close the book and see that the title was like dare mad magazine right it was the cracked of its time yeah uh
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
And so it was just an idea that someone had, but it was so catchy that it kept on, but it was never really used. There's actually a professor, Albrecht Klassen, another German, went as far as to write a book called, and this is available on Amazon, The Medieval Chastity Belt, colon, A Myth-Making Process.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
It's a podcast where a filmmaker and a comedian and their most excellent guests adventure their way through the 80s movies we think we love or might have missed with our grown-up eyes to see how they hold up.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
He wrote it because he was so fed up with it keep coming back up and back up and back up in history. And he was like, it was a joke. Why does he say they never really existed other than jokes and ways to sell things to museums? Well, I also, I already mentioned that none of the metal tested comes from medieval times. So the basic premise doesn't work.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Do you have another guess that maybe he might say chastity or else probably weren't in a lot of use?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
um i know i'm putting you because you really are because they hadn't invented uh locks nope we had locks the locks were figured out but what we hadn't figured out was hygiene wearing a big hunk of metal on your downstairs was incredibly hygienic and fatal we weren't good at the sniffles back then we certainly were let alone uti yeah We certainly – yeah, we didn't have cranberry juice.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
And so instead we're just going to come up with junk handcuffs? No. Do you remember like last episode someone died because they ran up against a gross tooth? And you think that putting metal is going to solve the problem? Even the British Museum has come out on the subject. The British Museum has a number of different chastity belts in their collection. They say –
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Quote, it is probable that the great majority of examples now existing were made in the 18th and 19th centuries as curiosities for the purient or as jokes for the tasteless. Ooh, British Museum out. Snap. So British Museum. Yeah. And then they took their little crustless sandwich and strode away.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
So yeah, they were just like the idea caught on and then people started making them later as curiosities. You could go to like traveling carnivals and see them, but they were probably almost certainly never actually used. A very popular joke throughout history. And again, history jokes, you know, we take what we can.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
There were always these pictures of a husband locking up, like pictures, I'm sorry, drawings, etchings, locking up his wife with a chastity belt as he's preparing to leave. And then on the other side of the curtain, there's a little scallywag with another key just waiting to get in there. Like, ha ha ha. So it was all about male fear and, you know, trying to keep women unempowered. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
The basic cool stuff that we always love to do. That being said, and I want there to be a new theme song or something where we turn the tides and say, that being said, do you think that's a good turn? I like that. I love it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
They're an enormous amount. And yes, I am on all sorts of internet watch lists now, which is fine. There are huge amounts of devices related to chastity belts on the market today. But the tables, that being said, but the tables have largely turned and in a wonderful way. A popular device in the BDSM community is called a male chastity cage or a penis cage.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Plus, members get some extra fun chit-chat with the hosts after the show.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
And it gives women or other partners complete control over their sexual ability. of their partners, meaning that you are locked up and so you cannot engage in traditional sexual activity until your partner unlocks it. For the locky, there is a masochistic thrill in it. It can also create very non-sexual feelings that are also important in relationships, I have read, like trust and vulnerability.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Most important? Wait, that's good.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Oh, I meant I've read from the community. I'm not personally in the BDSM community, but I've been trying. I've been leaving voicemails. Yes, no, the vulnerability. I think I saw a pamphlet that intimacy and vulnerability is important with loved ones. But no, so the cool thing about it is something that, A, was even a joke, but B, if it wasn't a joke, it was based in taking away power from women.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
I'm just going to lean on women right now. Instead now is being used to empower them, to have them be in charge. And I actually do know someone in the BDSM community who has used a... They also call it a cock cage and they love it. It makes them feel very special and valued and they have so much trust for their partner. So women, they get knocked down. They just keep getting back up again.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
They are the tub thumpers of history and we love them for it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
Or find it wherever the finest podcasts are stored.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It
The tub thumpers of history. Like a phrase that no one understands. And then on the back, really small, it just says, whiskey drink? And everyone's like, what are you doing? No one remembers that song. So thank you, women. You will always have the key.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
locus of violence and prohibition right and um and and so i don't know why specifically maine but you know let's just say this and no offense to mainers sure but when there are fewer states every state is more relevant that's a good point everybody's got a big spotlight on them sure there's no flyover states there's no no everybody can touch
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It always starts with one guy. And when you have the name of Neil Dow as the guy who spearheaded legislation in Maine in 1851, whose buddy is
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
right made neil do this yeah because it was dave neil's buddy he lived right next door to dave who was embarrassing and he was constantly playing the fiddle late at night and not very well because he was drunk and neil woke up with like just trash in his yard and uh inappropriate signs no and and dave would come out with like a penis on his forehead that somebody had drawn he just embarrassed everybody
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
So I think that's really interesting. And so from that – but then what – I mean what – how does – this is the next thing. I'm going to skip a lot of stuff because I want you to talk about it. But then how does temperance really take over a movement beyond alcohol, right? What other things did we try to temper? Oh, I don't know that. Did we? Well, I – you know, sort of.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
The problem, I think, is one of words, because really the abstinence movement is a temperance movement for sex. Like they already have it. I was wondering if the temperance movement actually ever tackled sex. And it turns out, I think they already had a movement for that. They didn't need to glom on. to something else.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
But there were sexual morality campaigns and educational efforts from the Women's Christian Temperance Union, WCTU. They were founded in 1874. They have been big in this space for a long, long time. And they promoted sexual morality campaigns. So they promote conventional sexual morality. So chastity and don't sex if no baby. And this was part of their effort. That's their bumper sticker.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
All the Feelings presents Sins and Virtues. This episode, Temperance. Tom, it's Temperance Day. We're teetotaling on the podcast. Are you excited?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It goes on the back of all their wagons.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Their horses' asses. It was part of their broader effort to protect women and children from the perceived dangers associated with male drunkenness and sexual exploitation. Male drunkenness.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Of course. Yeah. So so I thought that was really interesting. But really, the temperance movement came back for not specifically towards sexual maladaptive behavior, but just broader moral reform over the years. And it has been they've had sort of tried to tried to have their shadow sit over public morality issues.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
um urban centers uh prostitution and domestic violence as another big category which is important that's one of the things that's so interesting about this that when you look at their legislative influence like i'm not kidding when i talk about the women's rights to vote and
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
The temperance movement, the temperance movement, temperance activists included Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and they were early advocates for women's voting rights. That's just awesome. It's awesome. So the temperance movement, while I don't love the moral judgment that kind of comes with the whole vibe, there's some legit history of getting some good progressive things done.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Right. under their sort of movement their their gangbanger advocates is what they are like they are they they know how to get stuff done sure early punk rock you know who we have to thank in effect i mean we just switched to women but dave uh women next time you vote
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
In the shadowy corners of American history, a movement was brewing. It was the year 1869, and temperance, an idea as old as the republic itself, found a new champion in the form of the Prohibition Party. Born from the righteous fervor of its founders, this party sought to cleanse the nation of its most insidious vice, alcohol. Picture this, a dimly lit room, smoke curling from a single candle.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Around a table, men and women of stern conviction plot a course that would change the nation. Their weapon? Not bullets or bombs, but ballots. They aim to elect politicians who would outlaw the sale and consumption of intoxicating spirits. Thomas Nast, the famed cartoonist who gave us the Republican elephant and the Democratic donkey, gave us the Prohibition Party symbol too.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
The mighty and noble camel, a creature that drinks only water. The Prohibition Party was a trailblazer. It was the first political party to welcome women as full members, recognizing their critical role in the temperance movement, and their efforts bore fruit. By 1920, the 18th Amendment was law, and America entered the dry era of prohibition. Yet, as with all Crusades, there were shadows.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Prohibition gave rise to speakeasies and bootleggers, the underworld thriving in the darkness created by the law. The Prohibition Party's influence waned, but it never disappeared. Even today, it stands as a testament to a time when the nation's moral compass... pointed fiercely towards temperance.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
A relic, perhaps, but one that whispers of a time when the battle for the soul of America was fought over a bottle. Want to join a party that isn't shouting at the kids trying to spike the prom punch? Become a feeling friend today. For just $35, you can get drunk on the knowledge that you're a supporter this season of All the Feelings.
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Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
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Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
So jump in now, support the season, and know that you're also supporting Pete and Tom as they launch their own political party, the Anxietatem Party, under the banner of the ostrich, a symbol of unrealized potential, and voted a top three most anxious creature. Visit allthefeelings.fund to learn more, and thank you for your support. On with the show!
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I know they told me not to drink and that my eyes aren't as bloodshot as they would have been.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Okay. See, just asking the question makes me think that I'm going to fail the test. Interesting. I'm going to say no. I think it was prohibited.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Oh, that sounds exactly right on. That sounds like enemy of my enemy is my buddy territory right now. I'm going to say true.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I was vastly more interested in this topic than I thought I would be. Interesting. How come? Do you remember why? Well, first of all, because I expect it. I have an expectation now that all of the heavenly virtues are just straight-up religious tools of the early church. Sure. And it turns out this one has a much richer historical texture than I expected. Oh, interesting.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
There is no way that's true. They're the worst.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I'm trying to game it a little bit. Because wine is a spirit. It's booze. It's an alcohol. Yeah, yeah. It's an intoxicant.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But... Was there some 18th Amendment loophole where they called wine art or something and art was protected somewhere else?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
So did they start saying that alcohol was medicine? No. This is just about wine. I'm going to say no. The wine industry was not decimated because that would just seem right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
So this is unprecedented, but I actually have a few questions for you. Oh, no. Pete, this is exciting. Wait, is this still a game show? Or are we done with that? You can do what you want with it. All right. Welcome back to this. I did it. What famous brotherly duo was the angel and the devil of Chicago's Prohibition Empire? Brotherly duo? Yeah. Elliot and Stephen Ness? I have no idea.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Other side, Al Capone's oldest brother was a prohibition enforcement agent, James Vincenzo Capone, who later changed his name to Richard Joseph Hart. And he enforced prohibition laws while his brother built a criminal empire. Wow. What do you think of that? That's pretty good.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Okay. You want to find a place to drink in Chicago or Boston or New York. What signal are you going to be looking for as you wander around town? I'm going to make a guess and say a green door. Oh, you're right ahead of me. And I wonder, the reason I asked that is I wonder if that's connected to Green Hat Man.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It's fantastic. And the last, oh, I have maybe two more. So this is the reason I got that one question wrong about bringing together things, groups. Races and groups. Because in the age of segregation, prohibition did bring groups together and created a lasting effect thanks to their love of alcohol and jazz. Whoa. Do you know what those were called?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
And it is rooted in... There's still a lot of just straight-up moral code that is driven by this, but just the fact that it is so anchored in our...
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
You are a real hep cat. I am talking, of course, about black and tan clubs where white and black patrons came together to drink. and listened to jazz music. And that was from 1920 to the end of Prohibition. I thought that was interesting. That's very interesting. The end of Prohibition made U.S. constitutional history. How so?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
unamended right it was the 21st amendment is the only amendment written all the time that we that the constitution has been amended by state conventions instead of state legislatures too and so i think that is amazing it's like congress says we need a do-over because poor cat george cassidy
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It'd be littered, mostly with Hamilton, but a lot of John Adams, too. Yes.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
human history with alcohol i think is really funny yeah yes correct like the temperance movement yeah it's like the anthropocene like era had to work to make temperance be about stuff that wasn't don't get drunk like now it's about other things but if sure like when it was really big it was about don't get drunk those were the hands yeah it It leads to also women should have the right to vote.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
That was much more fun than I expected. I thought this was going to be a real drag.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Well, thank you all so much for joining us on this episode. This week's tune is Nowhere Fast by Ateller. What are we doing next week, Thomas?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
We're doing greed.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I honestly, I'm worried because apart from, apart from lust, it's possible that, this is an episode that could get us both canceled somehow.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
If you're not a feeling friend, get in. We don't have a group for feeling foes yet, but if you give us money, I'll set one up. Agreed. That'll be a good one.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Limping to the end.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Like that comes out of the temperance movement. Women's suffrage. That's fascinating.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Yes. Yeah. So I was just fascinated by it. I was fascinated by kind of the history of it. So, yeah, this one hit me out of left field. Where do you want to start? What do you want to do? Do you have a thing? Do you want to talk about anything specific?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
So you start looking at temperance. You start looking at what is really the historical background? Well, it's derived, as you might expect, from the Latin temperantia. Temperantia. Yeah. It's just fun. Sure. Meaning moderation or self-restraint. It is obviously one of the cardinal virtues in classic philosophy and Christian theology. So sure, it's got one foot in religion.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It goes back to Aristotle and Marcus Aurelius and Immanuel Kant, as well as religious figures and movements. Interestingly, in classical philosophy, Aristotle, for example, in Nicomachean Ethics, defined temperance as a virtue that avoids extremes and finds a balance between excess and deficiency. and views it as essential for achieving eudaimonia, or human flourishing.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I feel like my view of temperance is Aristotelian. Who knew that I would be in the same camp?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Well, and Marcus Aurelius too, the Roman emperor, the Roman emperor and Stoic philosopher described temperance the same way, a virtue that opposes the love of pleasure, emphasizing rational control over one's desires and appetites. Now, interestingly, opposing the love of pleasure is, I take issue with. I don't think we should oppose the love of pleasure. I love pleasure.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
But emphasizing rational control over one's desires and one's appetites is not teetotaling to me. It sounds, again, pretty rational.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I don't know, because it's not really until the 18th century that we start seeing temperance movements that exist as a response to something specific. Right. That it takes shape as a response to widespread alcohol abuse.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
And we see we see public figures coming out and starting to criticize the social and moral impacts of specifically drunkenness.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
right right okay and we're still idiots when we're drunk as humans like that's just that's settled science so uh we've learned we in fact through all of this have learned nothing and it wasn't until the 19th century that temperance societies emerged initially advocating moderate drinking and gradually shifting toward complete abstinence. So they even started Aristotelian.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
They even started saying, you can drink a little bit if you're careful. And eventually we're like, you know what? You can't be trusted.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Is impossible, right. And here's where it comes back to tying social reform to moral reform and rooting it in the church. My hypothesis is, not being an expert on this, but my hypothesis is that the founders of the temperance movement, while being Christian themselves, knew that if you put moral weight to it behind the weight of the church...
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
people will use guilt and shame as a way to modify their own behavior, right? That's the idea. We've talked about it with lust and gluttony and all of the other ones. When you root them in the church, guilt actually will out. And we have a social movement and something to fight about.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
I don't know that from the church is necessarily a modifier, right? Is social pressure the thing, right?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Okay, so talk to me then about cigarettes. Did the church smack the cigarettes out of your hand? Should they? Do they? No, they don't. They never did. No, they never did. Interesting. Right. And cigarettes, like, objectively, are works. Eventually, right? Do you know what you get from smoking cigarettes? A very high risk of lung cancer. Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Well, and we're coming around to that same sort of feeling culturally around marijuana use, right? It doesn't make you act like a buffoon. It makes you munchy. And that's, I think, a really important thing. And one of the things that's different about the temperance movement related to alcohol is they never got to the thing that makes me drink only in moderation, which is
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
my grandfather standing next to his urologist at the golf club over a urinal and having his urologist see in my grandfather's urine stream pieces of his liver that have been decayed by his martini abuse. He abused those martinis. You've told this story before.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It does. And that's why I'm saying, I'm like, I know we've talked about it before because I, that's one of those like gravitationally powerful stories in my head. Any story will eventually come back to my dad peeing out or my grandfather peeing out his own liver. The point I'm trying to make here is the health and safety aspect of, of, of,
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
too much alcohol or alcohol abuse i feel like was overshadowed for a long time and it was strictly hey you act like an idiot and it makes you drinking too much alcohol causes social and moral failings in people ignorant of the fact that it's also poisoning you
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
And I think that's really, that's, that's like a big deal because as soon as you tell people not to behave a certain way in public, there is a subset of people that's specifically going to go out and behave that way in public. You're humans. That's what we do. Like we don't like authority. Right. You can't tell me what to do, tempers movement.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Yes, we really did. And so I think that's sort of my take on it. Like when there are rules as Americans, somebody has to push back on them. Right. And this one, particularly interesting because it is poison. Yeah. It's, I mean, and I'm not, I drink. I get it. Right. On this show, we actually made an entire member episode about us drinking hard liquor. Like that's, we're fine with it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
So let's just put that on the, that's table stakes. But sociologically, I think this is a much more interesting background. It's a good point. Yeah. Then the other piece that I came back to was like, how does this, how does this tie to, well, I, you know, I don't, I don't want to necessarily get too much into prohibition because I know you have a real corner on prohibition.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
But what I, what I was interested in is, you know, how does the temperance movement, how did the temperance movement influence social policy?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Yeah. And how do the states and the federal government kind of go – like what does that tug-of-war look like around the temperature movement? I mean do you have anything on that you want to talk about?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
It's the same thing. It's the same thing. And so you do have – you did have a lot of states, individual states trying to regulate. Maine Law of 1851 was one of the earliest and most influential prohibition laws, which passed by –
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
advocate neil dow and served as the model for the other states that started popping up and what was the answer to the main law of 1851 as it over the next 50 years started to to propagate as more states uh joined the the united states was the 18th amendment in 1920 right which said hey we're gonna go ahead and not and not do booze anymore good luck everybody right
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
That's a really good question. I mean, Maine was the 23rd state. It became a state in 1820. So it had, you know, 31 years of statehood under it. I've always had the impression that temperance moved South. Like, and when you think about like what I knew going into this was like, it started North moved South and by prohibition, Chicago was the big thing. Like that was the-
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Wrath: A Love Story (Just Kidding, It's Mostly About Honking)
Be excellent to each other and... Party on, dudes.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Wrath: A Love Story (Just Kidding, It's Mostly About Honking)
What's up, most excellent friends?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Wrath: A Love Story (Just Kidding, It's Mostly About Honking)
It's a podcast where a filmmaker and a comedian and their most excellent guests adventure their way through the 80s movies we think we love or might have missed with our grown-up eyes to see how they hold up.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Wrath: A Love Story (Just Kidding, It's Mostly About Honking)
Plus, members get some extra fun chit-chat with the hosts after the show.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Wrath: A Love Story (Just Kidding, It's Mostly About Honking)
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All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Feeling Green: Our First Clip Show! The Pride & Jealousy Review
All the Feelings presents Sins and Virtues. This episode...