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All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues

It’s Chastity: You’re Blushing Just Thinking About It

Thu, 12 Sep 2024

Description

This week on Sins and Virtues, Pete and Tommy tackle the surprisingly complex concept of Chastity. While often considered a virtue, Pete makes a compelling case for its inclusion in the pantheon of deadly sins.The episode takes a deep dive into the history of chastity belts, revealing a surprising truth: they were likely never actually used in medieval times. Instead, they seem to have originated as a sort of inside joke that later gained a life of its own, becoming a symbol of male control over women's sexuality. However, in a delightful twist, modern interpretations of chastity devices have emerged, flipping the script and empowering women within certain communities.The conversation then shifts to the historical influence of the church on perceptions of chastity. From vows of celibacy to linking female "hysteria" with a lack of chastity, the episode explores how religious dogma has often been used to control and restrict sexual freedom. Tommy raises a thought-provoking question: can we discuss chastity today without getting bogged down by outdated dogmas?Pete and Tommy wrap up the episode by acknowledging the complexities of discussing chastity in a modern context. They emphasize the importance of personal choice and freedom, encouraging listeners to form their own opinions on this multifaceted concept. Join them next time for another thought-provoking exploration of sins and virtues! ---Learn more about supporting this podcast by becoming a member. Visit our website to learn more.

Audio
Transcription

0.089 - 4.25 Pete Wright

Here's another show you can enjoy in the True Story FM family of entertainment podcasts.

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6.693 - 21.866 Tommy Metz III

Hey, Pete, ever wonder what Steven Spielberg's favorite film is? You know, Andy, I've heard he loves classics like Lawrence of Arabia, Meet Me in St. Louis. Imagine chatting with him about why those films resonate with him so much. That's exactly what we do on our podcast, Movies We Like.

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22.326 - 41.42 Tommy Metz III

We've had incredible guests like actress Dee Wallace, cinematographer Eric Messerschmidt, director Steve Miner, and former Disney animators Tom and Tony Bancroft. They share their favorite films and the impact they've had on their careers, offering fascinating insights into the craftsmanship and storytelling techniques that make these movies so special.

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41.66 - 61.912 Tommy Metz III

If you're curious about the magic behind the scenes, subscribe to Movies We Like from True Story FM on your favorite podcast app. New episodes are released on the fourth Monday of each month with early access for our members. Join us on Movies We Like as we explore the movies we all like with the people who make them. And Stephen, our people will call your people. Let's make this happen, puppy.

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62.212 - 63.073 Tommy Metz III

Subscribe today.

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66.515 - 68.436 Pete Wright

What's up, most excellent friends?

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68.816 - 72.178 Chrissy

It's Chrissy and Nathan from the Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast.

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72.512 - 83.597 Pete Wright

It's a podcast where a filmmaker and a comedian and their most excellent guests adventure their way through the 80s movies we think we love or might have missed with our grown-up eyes to see how they hold up.

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83.917 - 90.52 Chrissy

Join us for delightful discussion, rollicking recaps, ratings, and deep-cut recommendations.

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90.82 - 94.782 Pete Wright

Plus, members get some extra fun chit-chat with the hosts after the show.

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95.042 - 98.984 Chrissy

Download the most excellent 80s movies podcast today at truestory.fm.

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99.992 - 102.654 Pete Wright

Or find it wherever the finest podcasts are stored.

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102.894 - 106.777 Chrissy

And do remember to keep the most excellent 80s movies podcast motto in mind.

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106.997 - 111.52 Pete Wright

Be excellent to each other and... Party on, dudes.

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114.962 - 129.652 Robot

All the Feelings presents Sins and Virtues. This episode... Chastity.

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136.496 - 160.327 Pete Wright

Pete, we are halfway through this season already. This is the halfway mark. Last time was what, Wrath? Oh, and then we're really turning things on its head because today, Chastity, Pete, it's like the sweetest, the most demure of all of these things. Did you know much, before we get to Robot, did you know that much about the idea of Chastity going into this?

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160.807 - 165.229 Pete Wright

Meaning, that's just not one of those sins or virtues that you talk about that much.

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166.129 - 185.322 Tommy Metz III

I think this is the thing about chastity. We're going to talk about it. I feel like chastity is listed technically as heavenly virtue, as it is written, right? And I think it should be the eighth deadly sin. What? That's right. I'm such a horned dog. I think it should be a sin. You can't stand it. Yeah, I can't stand it.

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185.362 - 188.784 Pete Wright

No holding back. No hold back, Pete. That's what they never called you. Okay.

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188.804 - 189.925 Tommy Metz III

That's what they never called me.

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190.165 - 193.588 Pete Wright

Well, so let's, should we get, should we ask Robot to get everybody on the same page?

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193.988 - 195.649 Tommy Metz III

Yeah, let's see what Robot has to say.

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195.929 - 199.652 Pete Wright

Hey, Robot, wake up. Please define chastity.

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200.773 - 205.036 Madonna

Chastity. Noun. The state or quality of being chaste.

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206.448 - 212.274 Pete Wright

Oh, well, all right. Nailed it. Okay, then, Robot, let's go for number two. Please define chaste.

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215.397 - 229.211 Madonna

Chaste. Noun. Abstention from unlawful sexual intercourse. Abstention from all sexual intercourse. Purity in conduct and intention. Restraint and simplicity in design or expression.

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231.243 - 252.654 Pete Wright

Okay, so that was four different definitions of the same word. That was a bit of a roller coaster. It went from bad sex to all sex to let's just conduct ourselves nicely to that dress is a little gaudy. We're in favor of Scandinavian design aesthetic. Yeah. So sex is definitely on the table. Listeners, you will be aware of that.

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253.074 - 254.134 Tommy Metz III

Sex on the table?

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254.435 - 254.875 Pete Wright

Hello.

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255.855 - 281.734 Pete Wright

uh is on the table but there's also a certain demureness or restraint that has to do with the word chastity which i've never thought of before so that is very interesting thank you robot take the rest of the episode off um do we have any opening ideas that we want to talk about or pete there is because you know i like to zoom in i know and zoom in hard i was wondering if you want me to just zoom in real quick everything is going to be a it's not this is an innuendo yeah

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284.923 - 291.125 Tommy Metz III

OK, well, I know you want to talk about a specific I would let's call it an artifact of chastity.

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291.385 - 311.538 Pete Wright

I was going to say, Mr. Pita, that's you. When you think of chastity, is there a certain type of, I don't know, clothing or apparatus that comes in your mind? Because there's one that the very first thing and actually I've talked to three different people about the fact that we were recording that this week. All of them brought up one thing. The belt. The belt, the chastity belt.

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311.578 - 318.544 Pete Wright

Yes, I think one person, because we were going from wrath to chastity, it was drop the whip and put on the belt. That's the transition they were doing.

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318.564 - 319.885 Tommy Metz III

Outstanding.

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320.366 - 331.816 Pete Wright

What do you know of chastity belts? What were their purpose? When? How were they used? I know the answer, but I would like to quiz you to see, because you probably would have the same amount of knowledge about them before I did research.

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332.662 - 348.762 Tommy Metz III

What was it? Was it History of the World? What was the Mel Brooks movie where she lifts? Was it Men in Tights? And she has a massive chastity belt and a huge padlock on under her bloomers.

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349.142 - 357.925 Pete Wright

And famously on the chastity belt, this medal back in the medieval times, whatever, chastity belt says Everlast. Yes. So it's like a boxer.

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358.445 - 365.008 Tommy Metz III

Yeah. So I that is I mean, the extent of my knowledge of chastity belts is lampooning them.

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365.588 - 365.848 Chrissy

Right.

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366.468 - 372.124 Tommy Metz III

So I don't really know what they what they are. I assume the church made them. That's what I always assume.

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372.685 - 378.941 Pete Wright

And to do what? Just take us over the basic, basic finish line, and then we'll get into it. What was the point of them?

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379.805 - 409.029 Tommy Metz III

The point of them was to prevent people from having sex because I think it was like back in the days of Elizabeth I was like the virgin queen, right? Like that was because it was putting purity above all else. And sex was what? A rageful distraction and an immoral distraction from pure living? Cool. Okay.

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409.17 - 438.889 Pete Wright

Yes. I would like to zoom in as I do hard a little bit. traditionally they were used by men in the middle ages to protect their wives virtues while they went off to war. So it's like, like you lock up your wife's downstairs and then the man has the key. He leaves. And then you're not able to, uh, the cat's not able to play while the mice is away. That's not how that phrase goes. Turn that around.

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438.929 - 464.571 Pete Wright

Um, That's actually, that was the old medieval phrase. That's actually quite good. Yeah. Yeah, they would be locked around a woman's hips with the key being held by the husband. And chastity belts appeared in medieval texts dating back to the 15th century. Do you want to know the earliest recording, the recorded mention of a chastity belt? Oh, God. Here we go. Judas. Nope.

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464.791 - 488.471 Pete Wright

It's Conrad Kaiser von Eichstadt. the most German engineer known for designing siege technology. He apparently wrote about the device in a manuscript called Bella Fortis, which means strong in war. And it's usually, it's mainly just a catalog of military gadgets. And then in it, he included the chastity belt. That's the first time that an actual drawing and the idea was officially brought up.

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489.111 - 490.412 Pete Wright

Wait a minute. That's crazy.

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490.432 - 496.015 Tommy Metz III

So the chastity belt was included. It was essentially militarizing abstinence.

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496.495 - 519.882 Pete Wright

Well, yes, because it was involved with when your people are off to war, mice and cats, whatever that phrase is. We still haven't gotten to the bottom of that phrase. Yes. Well, can I tell you something surprising? Because you already hit the nail on the head whether or not you knew it because you said you're really only – present and like cognizant of chastity belts when they're being lampooned.

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520.583 - 520.723 Nathan

Yeah.

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520.743 - 542.334 Pete Wright

You know what, Pete, there's a surprising problem with the entire idea of chastity belts because they most likely never actually existed. What? Hold on. Instead, kind of like the term humble pie that we talked about a few episodes ago, the chastity belt was kind of a joke that got taken way too seriously later on in history.

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545.197 - 553.561 Tommy Metz III

Okay, you told me last night, you said, do not look this up. I say now, I am so glad I did not look this up. That is fantastic.

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553.981 - 574.832 Pete Wright

So chastity belts, do they actually physically exist? Yes, they can largely be seen only in museums, including the Science Museum in London. There is also a belt on display at the Musée de Cluny in Paris, which was alleged to have belonged to Catherine de Medici. It's a word I should know. Medici, the one-time queen of France.

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574.853 - 574.973 Nathan

Yeah.

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575.732 - 601.709 Pete Wright

But here's the thing. They tested the metal in Medici's belt, and it was revealed that the metal originated in the early 19th century. That's hundreds of years after her death in 1589. What are we doing? Is this a prank? What are all these ideas? Where did these ideas come from? Okay, remember I talked about in German. He, before him, let's go back to where so many things begin.

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602.549 - 630.553 Pete Wright

Ancient Rome, Pete. Oh, the sights, the smells, the tunics. I found an article written by Sarah Bond, who is a professor of classics at the University of Iowa, where she explained that brides in ancient Rome wore white tunics, follows up, but with a Herculean knot. These are also known as reef knots or love knots to signify her chastity. And it's just sort of like loosely worn around her waist.

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630.614 - 654.094 Pete Wright

It's not really breaking any contact, but it's there to symbolize ever-dying love and virginity. It's called a Herculean knot because it's extremely hard to untie. And then her husband would untie the knot on their wedding night. A lot of people think this is where the phrase tying the knot originated, even though it would be untying. It's untying, but we get everything wrong.

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655.395 - 676.968 Pete Wright

So the idea of protecting a woman's downstairs from non-husbands started in ancient Rome. And it persisted, but only, it seems, in writing. Because Germany McGerman, von Eichstadt, who wrote about the device in his battle book, he was probably just joking. Because his book also described, like, tanks, and I'm not joking, that run on flatulence.

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677.648 - 700.556 Pete Wright

like fart tanks he talks about certain devices you can step in to be invisible like he makes literal jokes in his book alongside actual seed technology um does it seem like did anybody close the book and see that the title was like dare mad magazine right it was the cracked of its time yeah uh

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701.983 - 719.757 Pete Wright

And so it was just an idea that someone had, but it was so catchy that it kept on, but it was never really used. There's actually a professor, Albrecht Klassen, another German, went as far as to write a book called, and this is available on Amazon, The Medieval Chastity Belt, colon, A Myth-Making Process.

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720.477 - 737.356 Pete Wright

He wrote it because he was so fed up with it keep coming back up and back up and back up in history. And he was like, it was a joke. Why does he say they never really existed other than jokes and ways to sell things to museums? Well, I also, I already mentioned that none of the metal tested comes from medieval times. So the basic premise doesn't work.

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737.816 - 743.884 Pete Wright

Do you have another guess that maybe he might say chastity or else probably weren't in a lot of use?

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746.258 - 769.563 Pete Wright

um i know i'm putting you because you really are because they hadn't invented uh locks nope we had locks the locks were figured out but what we hadn't figured out was hygiene wearing a big hunk of metal on your downstairs was incredibly hygienic and fatal we weren't good at the sniffles back then we certainly were let alone uti yeah We certainly – yeah, we didn't have cranberry juice.

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770.344 - 789.717 Pete Wright

And so instead we're just going to come up with junk handcuffs? No. Do you remember like last episode someone died because they ran up against a gross tooth? And you think that putting metal is going to solve the problem? Even the British Museum has come out on the subject. The British Museum has a number of different chastity belts in their collection. They say –

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790.177 - 809.2 Pete Wright

Quote, it is probable that the great majority of examples now existing were made in the 18th and 19th centuries as curiosities for the purient or as jokes for the tasteless. Ooh, British Museum out. Snap. So British Museum. Yeah. And then they took their little crustless sandwich and strode away.

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810.461 - 828.42 Pete Wright

So yeah, they were just like the idea caught on and then people started making them later as curiosities. You could go to like traveling carnivals and see them, but they were probably almost certainly never actually used. A very popular joke throughout history. And again, history jokes, you know, we take what we can.

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828.92 - 853.177 Pete Wright

There were always these pictures of a husband locking up, like pictures, I'm sorry, drawings, etchings, locking up his wife with a chastity belt as he's preparing to leave. And then on the other side of the curtain, there's a little scallywag with another key just waiting to get in there. Like, ha ha ha. So it was all about male fear and, you know, trying to keep women unempowered. Yeah.

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853.977 - 870.95 Pete Wright

The basic cool stuff that we always love to do. That being said, and I want there to be a new theme song or something where we turn the tides and say, that being said, do you think that's a good turn? I like that. I love it.

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871.01 - 872.411 Tommy Metz III

We need a new logo, some new art.

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872.811 - 899.281 Pete Wright

They're an enormous amount. And yes, I am on all sorts of internet watch lists now, which is fine. There are huge amounts of devices related to chastity belts on the market today. But the tables, that being said, but the tables have largely turned and in a wonderful way. A popular device in the BDSM community is called a male chastity cage or a penis cage.

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900.222 - 928.393 Pete Wright

And it gives women or other partners complete control over their sexual ability. of their partners, meaning that you are locked up and so you cannot engage in traditional sexual activity until your partner unlocks it. For the locky, there is a masochistic thrill in it. It can also create very non-sexual feelings that are also important in relationships, I have read, like trust and vulnerability.

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929.033 - 931.194 Pete Wright

Most important? Wait, that's good.

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931.214 - 937.912 Tommy Metz III

I have read... I don't know about trust and vulnerability, but I've heard it's important.

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938.213 - 965.364 Pete Wright

Oh, I meant I've read from the community. I'm not personally in the BDSM community, but I've been trying. I've been leaving voicemails. Yes, no, the vulnerability. I think I saw a pamphlet that intimacy and vulnerability is important with loved ones. But no, so the cool thing about it is something that, A, was even a joke, but B, if it wasn't a joke, it was based in taking away power from women.

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965.384 - 988.75 Pete Wright

I'm just going to lean on women right now. Instead now is being used to empower them, to have them be in charge. And I actually do know someone in the BDSM community who has used a... They also call it a cock cage and they love it. It makes them feel very special and valued and they have so much trust for their partner. So women, they get knocked down. They just keep getting back up again.

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989.03 - 992.075 Pete Wright

They are the tub thumpers of history and we love them for it.

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993.962 - 998.966 Tommy Metz III

And that is the shirt. Women, the tub thumpers of history.

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998.986 - 1013.217 Pete Wright

The tub thumpers of history. Like a phrase that no one understands. And then on the back, really small, it just says, whiskey drink? And everyone's like, what are you doing? No one remembers that song. So thank you, women. You will always have the key.

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1013.277 - 1015.539 Tommy Metz III

I'm going to do that for real. Women will thank me.

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1017.786 - 1034.48 Pete Wright

So, yeah, that's Chastity Belts, the thing that wasn't a thing and now is a thing. And I love it. I like when things sort of come all around. I mean, that was, speaking of a roller coaster, that went up and down and all around. And where we are now is a sign of empowerment, which is great.

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1035.08 - 1045.369 Tommy Metz III

You unknowingly have given us a perfect segue into my next story. Peter. I can't wait to share. Are you ready?

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1047.073 - 1048.4 Pete Wright

Hold on, I'm locking myself up.

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1060.7 - 1084.58 Tommy Metz III

We are certainly not ones to kink-shame here at All The Feelings HQ. Anything but. In fact, we think you'll find we're far more kink-celebrant than shamers. But every now and again, a kink-adjacent story crops up that allows us to perform the right and good duty of tech-shaming, right where it counts. And today, I bring you a real leg-crosser.

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1085.799 - 1111.776 Tommy Metz III

This is the tale of the Cellmate Chastity Cage, a high-tech device that allows you to put your love under lock and key. That's right, it's a male chastity device. Here's how it works. You put your... device inside this device, and then you place a hardened steel clamp on the underside. This sticks behind your testicles, firmly locking in place and making the lock nigh impossible to remove.

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1112.237 - 1134.733 Tommy Metz III

Further, it's a smart lock. It's locked over Bluetooth on your phone. You can fully give control over your device to your partner, giving them complete control over your device's use and disuse. Misuse? Anyhow, you will be shocked, shocked I tell you, to hear that this titillating technology has a major flaw.

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1135.313 - 1161.966 Tommy Metz III

Security researchers discovered that malcontents could very easily exploit a flaw in the code and take control of these devices, like all of these devices, leaving your device in a rather tight spot. Boink. Here's the kicker. There is no manual override. That's right. There is no key. There is no secret password. There is not even a whispered, open sesame.

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1163.035 - 1184.912 Tommy Metz III

The only escape routes involve either bolt cutters, a very delicate operation you definitely don't want to attempt at home, or a MacGyver-esque solution involving dismantling the motor on the top of the device and shocking it with electricity. Want to share your love without becoming disjointed? Become a Feeling friend today.

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1185.072 - 1201.44 Tommy Metz III

For just $35, you can get all the playtime you want while knowing that you're a supporter of this season of All the Feelings. Plus, you'll get access to your very own members-only podcast feed, chock full of member-only extended editions of our episodes, member-only episodes, our trailer archive, and so much stuff.

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1202.02 - 1229.592 Tommy Metz III

So jump in now, support the season, and know that you're also supporting Pete and Tom all without the risk of getting your privates hacked by a 13-year-old Girl Scout in Nebraska. Visit allthefeelings.fun to learn more. And thank you for your support. Back to the show. Tom, hi, it's Pete from the podcast. Pete, this is Tommy from the podcast from before. Okay, good. Thanks.

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1229.612 - 1252.932 Tommy Metz III

It's good that we know everybody on the call. I may have come in hard-edged on podcast, on Chastity in the beginning of the show. You remember. It was a few minutes ago. Yeah. But I still agree with myself then. I think Chastity is ridiculous. That's not saying that the ideas behind it have some utility.

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1253.673 - 1271.521 Tommy Metz III

But historically, chastity, I mean, you already talked about the chastity as it relates to men and women control over wives while the men are away fighting the war. You might be surprised to learn that the church has some opinions on chastity as well.

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1271.642 - 1271.962 Pete Wright

No.

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1273.194 - 1296.081 Tommy Metz III

They do indeed. Okay. It turns out that in early Christian thought, chastity was highly valued and associated with spiritual purity. Sure. When you're praying, do you find that you're non-aroused? Yes. Okay, good. That's right, because they're always watching. During the Middle Ages, chastity was particularly emphasized for clergy and nuns through vows of celibacy.

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1296.241 - 1321.129 Tommy Metz III

Now, in the spirit of everything we just talked about about chastity belts, it starts to ring a little bit harsh that the church is now exuding essentially the emotional chastity belt control over its legions through these vows of celibacy. Okay. which I find unpalatable. In the early modern period, chastity becomes a powerful political religious concept.

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1321.149 - 1338.716 Tommy Metz III

So here we are, politics has gotten involved, and now we have something else to hate people about. Elizabeth I, I mentioned earlier, the Virgin Queen was central to English Protestant identity. Right. This became a thing that was central to how they viewed themselves.

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1339.217 - 1347.784 Tommy Metz III

Purity equals goodness equals I should just, you know, keep it in my pants because that's not because I don't want my spiritual reputation to be sullied.

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1348.164 - 1364.132 Pete Wright

May I butt in with a question or maybe you can tell me to punt it if it's not the right time. Yeah. What was so the reason was because sometimes like especially with religion, certain rules start as like a survivor manual. Don't eat this at this time because we didn't have refrigeration.

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1364.712 - 1389.044 Pete Wright

Don't even potentially you can see the idea of anti-homosexuality because we need procreation or else the tribe will die. And so the idea being what was the reason for this? Was it disease rampant or was it just like what was the social reason or was it just straight doing this? If you're having too much intercourse, you're not thinking about God enough.

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1389.517 - 1413.676 Tommy Metz III

That's a really interesting question, right? The relationship of chastity to health. And, you know, in pre-Enlightenment periods, like pre-Enlightenment art and medicine, women were, well, I should say, in medicine writ large until very recently, women were considered frail and prone to illness, right? Like due specifically to their anatomy, right?

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1413.796 - 1418.5 Tommy Metz III

And so, you know, their lives were thought to be endangered by a lack of chastity.

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1419.181 - 1419.541 Nathan

Got it.

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1419.581 - 1430.852 Tommy Metz III

Because hygiene was rough, whether you put a belt on it or not. Yeah. We've talked in this show now years ago about hysteria. Do you remember? Because it was your segment.

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1430.872 - 1450.864 Pete Wright

I do. I actually just said when you were saying how we used to think about women, I said the word hysterical. Yes, that we had floating uteruses and things that they were completely bound up because of the way that they were made. They were incapable of managing their own emotions, feelings, actions, all of that. Yes, gross.

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1451.304 - 1465.991 Tommy Metz III

And you'll be shocked to hear that that connection was also linked to a lack of chastity, right? That women who come in hysterical, one of the early questions they ask is, you know, are you chaste?

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1466.531 - 1466.731 Pete Wright

Right.

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1466.931 - 1471.913 Tommy Metz III

Have you been in the champagne room? Exactly. And this opinion dates back to the Egyptians.

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1473.814 - 1485.704 Pete Wright

And is that because we're saying that it's about health, but really it's just about control and we don't want women to be free? It's got to be, right? It's usually societal control also of women. Okay, got it.

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1486.205 - 1492.828 Tommy Metz III

And of course, in the early 20th century, prostitution and venereal diseases were directly linked.

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1492.908 - 1495.33 Pete Wright

That's the survival manual part. Okay, got it.

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1495.47 - 1516.76 Tommy Metz III

Yep, that's it. And it was part of social reformation, right? That if we are chaste, we can stamp out disease. But the big dog in this particular fight is moral and physical purity, that the idea of chastity is... conflated too often with physical cleanliness and health.

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1517.561 - 1546.397 Tommy Metz III

And in the late 1800s, you end up with this increased focus on personal hygiene and the prevention of sexually transmitted diseases, which is good, and also that The church is levying these, you know, the control mechanisms of being chaste also leads to purity before God. Right. I don't care much for that. I mean, I care for the health. This is the thing, right?

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1546.437 - 1570.493 Tommy Metz III

Don't you feel like it's hard to have a conversation about chastity in this year, like of our times? I find like if we're going to have a discussion about, around sex and celibacy, that discussion should not be aligned anymore with dogma. Is that a fair conversation point?

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1572.034 - 1595.064 Pete Wright

Yeah. I mean, the dogma's dogma. It is the rules for people that believe in it. And so I don't know if you can take it completely out of it. But I mean, there was talking about When I was in high school, college probably, or maybe way after, I'm bad at timing, but there was that whole resurgence of the purity movement. And that was with young people, famously.

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1595.164 - 1618.445 Pete Wright

Famously, like the Jonas Brothers all wear purity rings and then stopped wearing them at some point, which is totally fine. But yeah, I mean, they have these resurgences sometimes. And unfortunately, that can lead to... I'm always so fascinated by how we try to approach abstinence with youth and how it doesn't necessarily work.

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1619.045 - 1632.311 Pete Wright

that the idea of just doing that versus providing a safe contraception, things like that, uh, might attack certain ideas better. But yeah, that's not chastity though. That's enabling. So I'm not sure.

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1632.411 - 1653.742 Tommy Metz III

Right. And I feel like any discussion that makes people feel bad about themselves is the wrong discussion to have. Like to say that your sexual feelings are, you know, not moral feelings and that makes you a not good person. You need to strive to have better feelings, cleaner feelings. Then that's not, that doesn't feel like the way to enable people

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1654.202 - 1671.397 Tommy Metz III

um you know young people and old people to feel good about themselves their bodies their relationships with each other sure so that's that's a thing i struggle with and who do you think of when you think of somebody who's just really nailed the right reason to not have sex

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1674.125 - 1677.548 Pete Wright

Nailed the right reason. Octomom? She's still in the news.

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1679.709 - 1679.97 Tommy Metz III

Nope.

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1690.978 - 1691.279 Chrissy

Yeah.

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1691.839 - 1692.88 Pete Wright

Yeah, that's the best clue.

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1692.94 - 1710.538 Tommy Metz III

I'll just say that you don't have to put out the red light. Sting. Sting. Don't you think? There's a guy who knows why not to have sex, and that is because of Tantra. And so I decided to go down a little bit of a sidebar on what's Tantra all about anyway?

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1711.414 - 1713.856 Pete Wright

Yeah, what is it? All I know is it seems to be long.

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1713.896 - 1735.634 Tommy Metz III

Yeah, right. So tantra relates to different approaches to sexual energy, right? So when you look at tantra and chastity, they both involve the management of sexual energy in different ways. So tantra practices on focusing and harnessing and redirecting sexual energy for spiritual purposes, largely. It's another spiritual practice. Oh.

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1735.854 - 1750.23 Tommy Metz III

While chastity involves taking that spiritual energy and swallowing it, right? Stamping it down. Stamping it down, right? And abstaining from activity or sexual release, orgasm, that kind of a thing, right?

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1750.911 - 1753.793 Pete Wright

So one is redirecting it, one is turning it off like a light switch.

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1754.653 - 1785.535 Tommy Metz III

Exactly. Tantra has this aim toward physicals and psychosocial and spiritual growth and enlightenment. That's the idea. And These practices, according to Sting, seeks to unite the physical and the spiritual aspects of being. And chastity, again, especially in religious contexts, aimed for cleanliness and purity. Cleansing all of those feelings and not having a relationship with it.

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1787.216 - 1810.153 Tommy Metz III

Now, this is where Sting is a role model for all. Some tantric practices involve delaying or avoiding orgasm to cultivate, to harness sexual energy. And that can go for days and days and days. If I take a vacation for a week and you just don't hear from me, there's a non-zero chance I'm trying something new.

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1814.149 - 1818.184 Pete Wright

I'll be like two things are happening. He's in a cave and he's trying something new. Yeah.

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1821.064 - 1843.746 Tommy Metz III

So I think this is really fascinating because the ultimate goal of or not, I'm not going to say goal because I'm not a practicing tantric experientialist. It seems to it seems to me that one of the outcomes of tantric experience is a more enthusiastic experience.

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1843.886 - 1864.298 Tommy Metz III

orgasmic experience right you restrain for so long that it's just a much bigger sort of right holistic experience and chastity again does not says you're not leading to the big finale there is no finale because there was no show because the show is yes got it the show was canceled yeah exactly right

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1865.418 - 1882.29 Tommy Metz III

Tantra is, you know, the thing that's misunderstood about Tantra is that it's not always just about sexual practices, apparently. The reputation from Sting is that, you know, because we get into the pop culture headlines of Sting does this thing. And that was my memory of him in the 90s.

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1882.931 - 1903.672 Pete Wright

Like a six hour long Tantra session. Yeah, right. You're not actually touching each other. or something right yeah and he's always dressed like his character in that first dune yeah he's always dressed like that first character yeah if you don't know what i'm talking about look up sting david lynch dune and enjoy your own town trip experience i will

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1903.752 - 1904.352 Nathan

Don't kill him.

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1905.593 - 1925.059 Tommy Metz III

No, that's totally it. So it's largely misunderstood. And I think by the same token, chastity, when you take it out of the spiritual context, out of the religious context, it does not have to be about complete abstinence, right? It's a really nuanced approach to sexuality and spirituality. And I think that's the important thing that gets lost.

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1925.459 - 1952.073 Tommy Metz III

that everything just becomes black and white when you talk about chastity. You do or you do not. And if you don't, you are better. And if you do, right, and smarter. And the other piece of this is that there are many people out there writing about the idea of the death of chastity and what that does to our relationships, right? That there is this spectrum of

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1952.773 - 1968.011 Tommy Metz III

There's childishness on one side, that if you are chaste, you are childish or childlike, right? And on the other side, there is hookup sex, right? That it is, you're the opposite of chaste. You're just hooking up for the immediate gratification.

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1968.031 - 1970.233 Pete Wright

It's very transactional versus emotional.

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1970.494 - 1996.112 Tommy Metz III

Yeah. Exactly. And there are many mental health professionals out there who are writing and sex experts who are saying, look, maybe if you slow down a little bit and you build stronger emotional relationships under the guise of or the definition of chastity, right, be more chaste for a while, you will have better, more sort of soul-fulfilling sex when you do. And that's the takeaway, right?

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1997.608 - 2018.332 Tommy Metz III

But it's that's not related to dogma. Right. That's related to emotional well-being and mental health. Right. And I think that's the important part that this term that, you know, Ron are Ron Rollheiser writes this this term about it. He says, there's a certain ennui and fatigue and an ultra sophistication that believes all taboos may be broken.

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2018.793 - 2038.726 Tommy Metz III

And there's a vibrancy and happiness that's felt in keeping your shoes off before the burning bush. Note in every one of these dualisms, chastity speaks for soul, for wisdom, for respect, and for happiness. A generation earlier, a renowned educator, Alan Bloom, writing out of a purely secular perspective, came to this conclusion.

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2038.906 - 2054.055 Tommy Metz III

Looking at the bright, very sophisticated young students he was teaching, he concluded that the very unbridled sophistication they so prided themselves in, which he termed the absence of chastity in their lives, had this effect on their lives. It left them erotically lame. Oh!

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2055.055 - 2059.067 Pete Wright

Yeah. Like a horse that needs to be put down.

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2059.087 - 2083.279 Tommy Metz III

Yeah. Yeah. That, that you, that they, young people who engage in and don't have an understanding of, of, you know, a healthy relationship with sexuality and partners, you know, end up being sort of erotically exhausted and they become unable to, to do it with any fulfilling intentions.

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2083.379 - 2104.342 Pete Wright

practice right with the new and then i mean the huge backlash why we don't talk about purity culture anymore is there was an enormous backlash from it talking about that it was just shame based and people were growing up filled with shame and regret and grossness and feeling like they must be dirty because they're feeling these dirty things and yes erotically lame is officially the title of my autobiography

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2109.763 - 2137.111 Tommy Metz III

You know, it's funny. As a parent, it's interesting. You get these choices that you get to make about how you talk about sex with your kids. And, you know, I know that that conversation is mixed with, you know, all of the signals that they're getting from everywhere else. Right. That, you know, school and teachers and peers and all of that.

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2137.785 - 2138.306 Robot

Madonna.

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2138.666 - 2165.121 Tommy Metz III

But ultimately, I heard once that I've often repeated it to my kids that sex is fantastic. And it is the very best thing that you can do with your body with a partner that you know, as you mature, because it gives you all the fun and all of the dopamine and the release. And It's not drugs or alcohol.

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2165.161 - 2185.538 Tommy Metz III

I'd vastly prefer my kids explore their young adult lives sexually than through substance abuse because before their brains are developed, there's just more of a likelihood of addiction and making bad decisions. And so teaching them not just that it's okay to have these feelings and

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2186.298 - 2194.226 Tommy Metz III

But to do it healthily and with consent and like those are the guidelines to talk about, not don't do it because you're not a good person if you do.

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2194.406 - 2194.646 Madonna

Right.

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2194.846 - 2209.035 Tommy Metz III

Right. If you feel strong about doing it, do it right. Do it respectfully. Yeah. Respectfully. So I don't know. That's me. I don't know. Does this give you any new material for your bit for a tight 10 on sex?

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2209.136 - 2210.817 Pete Wright

Before we go out on tour? Yeah.

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2210.877 - 2211.418 Tommy Metz III

Before the tour.

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2211.478 - 2231.302 Pete Wright

Yeah. When you're doing your crowd work. I completely, completely agree. I think the best thing, you've said 900 best things in this episode, but my favorite one is always black and white. Whenever we reduce things to black and white, that's where the mistakes are made. It's a cliche to say, but life is in the gray. That's the whole point.

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2231.362 - 2246.546 Pete Wright

But finding your gray that makes the most sense for you, but is also helping another person, is also doing things in a healthy, fulfilling, and hopefully meaningful way, will always be a more valuable experience. And you will not find that in the black and white.

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2247.006 - 2261.157 Tommy Metz III

No. And you know what? Like it goes back to, I feel like you brought up purity rings and I don't want it to seem like making a vow of purity is, or of chastity is, is the bad thing. It might be the right thing for you and your relationship.

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2261.177 - 2275.628 Pete Wright

It's the right thing for you unless you're being pushed into it by your community. If it wasn't your idea or if it's peer pressure or your flock or your anything, if you're doing it just to be able to fit in with people, then that's not. A hundred percent.

0
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2275.888 - 2276.228 Tommy Metz III

That's it.

0
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2276.549 - 2277.589 Pete Wright

It's like intermittent fasting.

0
💬 0

2277.629 - 2279.571 Tommy Metz III

Then you wouldn't want to have sex all day.

0
💬 0

2280.212 - 2293.542 Pete Wright

Right. Well, Sting would, apparently. I don't know what he's doing. Brother's got errands. I can't.

0
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2295.144 - 2304.431 Tommy Metz III

I'm happy on my own. Making coffee just for one.

0
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2305.012 - 2313.849 Tommy Metz III

And eating Thank you all so much for joining us for this episode. This week's tune is Happy on My Own by Kyle Cox. Coming up next week.

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2316.269 - 2331.395 Pete Wright

All of that was true. We are eight years old. We are. Next week. So let's see. This was Chastity showing a lot of restraint. And tomorrow we're loosening our belts, Pete. Because next episode we are talking about gluttony.

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2331.996 - 2333.416 Tommy Metz III

Unless you're a glutton for Chastity.

0
💬 0

2333.837 - 2334.077 Pete Wright

Right.

0
💬 0

2335.117 - 2336.578 Tommy Metz III

I can't get enough of not doing stuff.

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2337.398 - 2357.532 Pete Wright

Yeah, I thought you at first were saying a glutton for jazz, and I thought that was fun. I'm a real glutton for jazz. It's the notes they don't play. Yeah, so we're going to be talking about gluttony, which is exciting and already gross. Already gross. Yeah, the first thing I'm thinking of, nachos. Until then, I'm Pete Wright. And I am Tommy Metz III. Thank you so much for downloading.

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2358.113 - 2365.218 Pete Wright

Six down, six to go. We will be back next week with all the feelings, sins, and virtues.

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2369.151 - 2392.339 Tommy Metz III

I'm happy on my own At least most of the time I guess some of the time Maybe none of the time I'm happy Happy on my own

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