Megan
Appearances
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
After just two years, Megan filed for divorce and left him. When you moved out, in your mind, that was it? That was it. You never had a second thought about getting back together? Never a second thought. Scott reverted to old habits, pleading with her in multiple, often lengthy letters.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Letters that took an ominous turn when Scott got wind that Megan was getting it off with a man he knew.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
He was, even by his accounts, quite committed to pursuing her and getting her back.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But persistence seemed to turn to obsession in December 1996, during that weekend that David and Megan spent together at her apartment.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
When David got home Sunday morning to find his house vandalized, he called police. But he and his friend Craig Foster thought they already knew who was responsible.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Craig advised David to back off from Megan until her divorce was final.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
That Tuesday night, David was found dead. And within hours, Megan's estranged husband was talking to the police.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Three days after David Coffin's body was found, Scott Davis was arrested.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Attorney Bruce Morris began representing Scott Davis the day he became a murder suspect.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Morris was hired by psychiatrist Dave Davis, Scott's father. Have you never met anyone who was acting normally all along and snapped?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But Detective Rick Chambers says Scott came unhinged when his soon-to-be ex-wife Megan started showing serious interest in another man.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Chambers believes Scott Davis killed David Coffin, then tried to cover his tracks by inventing a fictitious assailant.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Police used phone records and witness statements to create a timeline, showing that Scott had ample opportunity to execute the crimes. On Saturday night, they believe while David was with Megan, Scott ransacked David's home and took a few choice treasures.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
On Monday night, they say, Scott returned, this time to confront David.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Then on Tuesday night, Chambers says Scott returned again and set the fire.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But the timeline had a problem. David's stolen Porsche was also set on fire. It was found Tuesday morning, miles from where Scott was seen at work.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
After 90 days in jail, Scott posted a half million dollar bond and was released. Can you definitively answer the question, did Scott Davis kill David Coffin?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
The pending case against Scott Davis had other issues. A gun taken in the burglary was found near David's body, but was too badly burned to have any prints on it.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
The district attorney chose not to seek an indictment. And in June 1998, 18 months after Scott Davis was arrested, the charges against him were dropped.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott's divorce from Megan Lee was now final, but Megan wasn't taking any chances. Megan says she felt she had to get out of town. First, she moved to Minneapolis, but she still didn't feel safe. Eventually, she moved here, halfway around the world to Sydney, Australia, which is about as far away from Atlanta and from Scott Davis as she could get.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But Scott Davis's newfound freedom was not sitting well with David Coffin Sr.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Coffin made relentless efforts to keep the case active. Were you pressuring the DA?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
He offered rewards, substantial rewards. The reward went from $100,000 to $200,000 to $300,000. Correct. But as the years passed, little new evidence surfaced. Megan was now happily married to an Australian man and had two children, but she was never able to shake her past.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott, meanwhile, was getting ambitious. In 2003, California's governor was recalled, sparking a wild free-for-all election. San Jose Mercury News reporter Josh Kwan got a tip to check out one of the 135 hopefuls.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
When Quan asked Scott about his arrest for David Coffin's murder, Scott told him the charges had been dropped. There was no evidence against him.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
With his past outed, Scott gave up his run for governor, but he was now under new scrutiny in Atlanta. Would you describe him as a smart person?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Enter prosecutor Sheila Ross. She was heading a cold case unit and taking a fresh look at the old evidence.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
The state had virtually no new evidence against Scott Davis, but there was now a very determined prosecutor.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
This time, the DA convened a grand jury, and Scott Davis was indicted. In November 2005, Scott was arrested again and charged with murder. So when he was arrested, what was your reaction? Outrage. Just outrage. He was able to post a million-dollar bond and was released. Dr. Davis, is there any, any shred of doubt in your mind of Scott's innocence?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But after nearly 10 years, Scott Davis is about to stand trial for the murder of David Coffin.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Ten long years after David Coffin's house was set on fire, Scott Davis is finally standing trial for murder.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Do you believe him? Absolutely. At his side, Christine Bradley, a paralegal on his team whom he has been dating. I didn't think this would ever go to trial.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Sometimes to do the right thing, you just have to take a chance. Prosecutor Sheila Ross knows there is no physical evidence.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
And defense attorney Bruce Morris wastes no time pointing that out.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Most of that burned in the fire. Virtually all the evidence that was collected, more than 40 items, has been lost or discarded by the state. Only photographs remain. And you believe that any one of these items, had you had access to them, could have exonerated Scott?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But Ross contends she can prove that Scott Davis had a motive to kill.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Ross called Scott's former wife to the stand. Do you recognize the person in state 60-bit 4? That's Dave Kaufman, Gina. Megan Lee, the woman Scott once so doggedly pursued, has voluntarily flown in from Australia. I didn't feel like I could breathe when I first got up there. Is that the person that you were dating? It was, yes.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Over the course of three grueling days, Megan testifies about her failed marriage. The minute we got married, he wanted nothing to do with me. I felt very alone in my marriage.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
She listens to Scott's messages pleading for her to come home. And tells jurors about Scott's fixation with the new man in her life. He kept on saying, I know David's there.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Perhaps most important to the state's case, Megan contends that when she told Scott about the fire at David's house, Scott said something very incriminating.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
David Coffin had been shot in the head. That comment Scott allegedly made is key to the case because at the time, police didn't even know how David had died. So the question is, did Scott slip up and say something only the killer could have known? Are you 100% certain that it was Scott who told you? 100% certain. Remember, Scott said it was Megan who told him about the shooting.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
If Megan knew first, how do you think Megan knew that information?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Megan admits that initially she told police she didn't know how David died. And all the horror, she says, she forgot. But she now remembers she told friends about the shooting after talking with Scott. You did not tell Scott that David Coffin had been shot in the head? No. Do you think Megan is lying?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Ross says the real liar is Scott Davis. He did himself in. He did himself in, she says, by spinning an elaborate tale about being a victim.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Police testify they found nothing to corroborate Scott's story. No evidence that someone took a shot at him.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
No signs that Scott had shot an assailant, despite his claims that he shot at someone five times in his small backyard.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
She says Scott even tried to enlist a friend to provide a false alibi.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Instead, that friend turned on Scott and called the authorities. It is the cover-up that gets them in the end. But Christine Bradley insists there was nothing to cover up. I was sitting next to an innocent man. Was that difficult for you during the trial, dating someone who's accused of murder? Stressful, certainly.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
When the defense lays out its case, Dr. Davis takes the stand. He tells jurors about the toll the accusations first took on his son 10 years ago.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Davis also provides his son an alibi for Saturday evening, around the same time the state believes David's house was ransacked.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Correct. Do you think Dr. Davis was lying? I think he was, yeah. But the state cannot dismiss the fact that David's stolen Porsche was found burning around the time Scott had a meeting at work.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
After nearly six weeks in court. He killed his competition. And more than 60 witnesses.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
With the case in the jury's hands, there is a lot at stake for Scott Davis. In your mind, it's absolutely not possible that he had anything to do with this? Absolutely not possible. There's a lot at stake for Christine Bradley, too. Are you in love with Scott? Yes, very much so.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
After testifying at Scott Davis' murder trial, Megan Lee has flown home to Australia. But she is still thinking about David Coffin.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
David's father is glad he finally got to meet the woman his son was once so taken with.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
As the jury deliberates, Scott's girlfriend, defense team paralegal Christine Bradley, waits anxiously. How is Scott feeling going into deliberations? Helpless. Nervous? Of course. Hours turn into days. Then court recesses for the weekend with no verdict. Scott and Christine relieve some tension by watching his old high school play football.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
The following Monday, after nearly four days of deliberations... Okay, I understand we have a verdict. Scott and Christine will soon find out. They'll be able to leave the courtroom together.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Prosecutor Sheila Ross warns the Coffin family that there are no guarantees.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
It is a bittersweet victory for David's father. When you heard the words guilty.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
While Christine faces an uncertain future, Megan is finally able to come to terms with her past.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
At the sentencing, David's brother Bob speaks for the Coffin family.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
So then was it worth all of the agony and the conversations and the pushing and the prodding?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But just before he's led away, Scott Davis addresses the court for the first time.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
After his conviction, Scott asked his girlfriend to read a letter he had written to 48 Hours.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
How long do you think you'll stay together under these conditions?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But she may be waiting a long time. David's father is determined to keep Scott right where he is. Should he be in prison for life?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
It was on that fateful weekend that his son told him about the new woman in his life. Megan Lee. He said to his father about you, this might be the real deal. How do you feel about that?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
It was late at night on December 10th, 1996, when Megan Lee watched firemen struggle to gain control of the inferno at the home of her boyfriend, David Coffin.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Their grief and fear only deepened when fire officials revealed that David had died before the fire even started. All I remember is laying down on the pavement, hysterical. Adding to the horror, it was the second time that same night someone close to Megan was the victim of violence. The first incident involved her estranged husband, Scott Davis.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott told her he had been ambushed that evening right in front of his house.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Now, hours later, Megan's soon-to-be ex-husband had even more bad news.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
In that second attack, Scott Davis said the assailant used his gun. Patrolman Michael O'Connor took the report.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott also said that before all the shooting, the man set fire to the back of his house by the patio. Scott managed to put it out, but the timing was terrifying. It was just hours after David's house was set aflame.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Homicide detective Rick Chambers naturally suspected there had to be a link between the two victims.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Although she was connected to both victims, Megan could not imagine who would commit the crimes, who would attack her estranged husband, and why would that same person cut down her new boyfriend, David Coffin, in the prime of his life?
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
David was a 41-year-old entrepreneur looking for business ventures in Atlanta when a friend introduced him to Megan.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But there was one rather sticky issue. Megan's divorce from Scott Davis was not yet final.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
David Coffin spent Thanksgiving week with his father and told him about his new girlfriend.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But David Coffin Sr., patriarch of a wealthy and established New England clan, was a cautious man. He advised his son to take his time.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
In fact, Scott Davis was not quite ready for divorce and was having a hard time letting Megan go.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
And were you sleeping with David? And so I crossed that line. After Thanksgiving, David returned to Atlanta. and spent the next weekend at Megan's apartment.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
That Sunday morning, David came home and found someone had broken in.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Most of his prized possessions were there, but a few were missing, including watches, guns, and his beloved Porsche.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Two days later, David's house was torched and he was dead. In the wee hours, Megan went to the police station to give a statement. She wasn't alone, though. Scott Davis was there, too.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
But the more Scott Davis spoke, the more suspicious Detective Chambers grew about what he was saying, especially one critical detail.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Detective Rick Chambers was convinced that the man who murdered David Coffin had given himself away. Even before investigators knew how David died, Scott Davis was telling them it was a gunshot. He said that's what Megan, his estranged wife, told him.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
So this was not adding up to you? No. Scott was the prime suspect, but he was hardly a typical murder suspect.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott's father, Dr. Dave Davis, is a prominent Atlanta psychiatrist.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
A forensic psychiatrist. None of this surprises Dr. Dave Davis. Who made media appearances profiling criminals.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Scott was a 24-year-old graduate student when he met 19-year-old Megan Lee.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
After every breakup, Scott would beg for another chance, often in writing.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
A European magazine featured their wedding with a photo spread, calling the event the perfect American wedding, Hollywood style.
48 Hours
The Haunting of David Coffin
Professionally, Scott Davis' star was rising as a technology consultant, but his personal life was soon in trouble.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
The old bud was sweet and caring. I remember when my grandfather passed away, I remember that day, and he just held me, told me he loved me. I would go to babysit, and he would take my car and fill it up with gas for me before I'd come back. He always told me I was like his fourth child. And then towards the end, I mean, he turned into a completely different person that I didn't even recognize.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And I was honestly kind of scared to be around. It wasn't like necessarily I thought he would hurt me. I just got a really bad feeling whenever it was just us.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 2
I really think she is so sick that she thought she could do this and then just walk into the sunset with her three kids. I think that's how she thought this was going to play out.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 2
And what was she thinking? Did she not understand the impact this was going to have on her children's lives? I mean, she extinguished four lives that day. She murders her ex-husband and basically destroys the childhood of her three children. I just, I don't understand what she was thinking.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 2
He put both hands on my shoulders and he said, Megan, Fred Javelin is lying in his driveway. He's dead.
48 Hours
Two Wigs and A Gun Pt 2
Fred Jablin was a totally involved father. A super, super single parent.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. She had to get iron infusions. She was in, like, the cancer ward getting, like, bags of iron. Yeah, it was really crazy. Her levels were at, like, one and two, her hemoglobin levels. It was really bad. She actually went a season before I did, so I deferred my first season because I was playing in a youth World Cup. So she played a season before, and then I came.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
She was really struggling with her anemia. I was playing, and then my sophomore year and junior year, I was out with knee injuries everywhere. her junior and senior year, our sophomore and junior year, she was out. So we really only played together basically our senior season, which was great. She played forward and I was a winger and we had a lot of fun together.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But it was hard because we were kind of parallel pathing these really difficult things and we were trying to figure ourselves out and had no language to do that. We're twins and the world's comparison when it comes to twins is difficult. No matter what, you're always going to be compared to each other because it's like, how are the twins? How are the babies? It's such a story for people. Totally.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. And so it was, I think, hard for both of us in ways to really understand and navigate that. And now, like 20 years later, we're starting to talk about it. So it's good.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Well, it compounded it because I outed us both to my mom. Let me tell you how I compounded that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. I have a tendency to be spontaneous in the best of ways, but it's also really impulsive. So I'm working on integrating that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think it was your mouth too this time. Yeah. Yeah. It came right out of my mouth. I just honestly thought my mom would be like, well, obviously, we know. When I figured it out for myself, I was like, oh, my God, this is kind of embarrassing, Megan. This is really obvious. So I didn't really have the struggle with it. And so when I told my mom, I think it was just hard for her in the beginning.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
This is not the dream that she saw. Not that it was bad. It was just she was like unprepared for it. Yeah. And I was like, well, Rachel's gay too. Obviously, this is fine. And we're both doing it. Oh, my God. So that was tougher. And I think she struggled with it a little bit more. And she was kind of struggling with her religious views.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And she was in this sort of evangelical, fake, progressive church that was honestly just kind of hateful and really conversion therapy vibe. So I think she was really struggling and struggling to find herself. And then I outed her to my mom. So I'm really sorry, Rachel. I'm still sorry to this day for
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
that well my intuition would be that you would come out to Rachel first and then also I could see where you'd come out to her last because of this shared identity thing yeah it was almost like we were kind of figuring ourselves out at the same time it's like when you're so close you can't see it and so we were both doing that same time and it was confusing and we both went to college for the first time it was like we were in Portland it's so progressive compared to Reading yeah yeah
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Everything was just new coming from such a small place.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, totally. We talk about this a lot. I think especially since we've both retired. I think when we were both playing, it was just naturally separated. Now we have to work really hard to have separate realms. And it's been hard and we're figuring that out. It's really only a year into both of us being retired.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I know. Honestly, we just interviewed Alex Morgan recently. She also retired. And she brought up this one element about showering. So to really make your point about scheduling, when you're an athlete, your shower is built in. You're showering after the game. You're showering after practice. You really don't have to think about showering.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
So even down to the shower. Yeah, I bet. It's disruptive. And this change is disruptive.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. It's like you kind of have to be a little psycho to be a professional athlete. You have to have that routine. The routine is great because it's so structured, but it's also really unhealthy in a lot of ways because you're forcing yourself to do the exact same thing every day. They disguise it with words like discipline. Right. It's really like crazy. It's controlled. Oh, very.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You're rewarded for things that aren't necessarily going to help you in your personal life. Yeah. Right. I feel like when you retire, you have to come face to face with that in a big way. Or at least I did. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's very safe on a team. I always say teams are so interesting because you will simultaneously know who your teammates are dating. For us, I'm like, I know when my teammates have their period. Who needs a tampon? And then at the same time, I don't even know if all my teammates had siblings. I don't know if I know their hometowns all the time. So yeah, you're like simultaneously so intimate.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then also not. But it is really safe because that intimacy is automatic. Once someone comes on your team, that's it. You are in lockstep. You got each other's back. If they got traded the next day, you'd be like, see ya. And you wouldn't think twice.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And it connects you in these really wonderful ways. But I think to your point, when you don't have that, it's been such a safe place. In some ways, it shows up as family. By the way, even with all this intimacy, the differences, you do have very real relationships with your teammates too. Yeah. The ones you click with do become family.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Whether it's the end of a season or retirement, all of a sudden you go your separate ways. And then you just might not see them for months and months and months.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. That sounds awful and sad. It's not. Really? Yeah, if anything, if it's someone you're cool with, you can't wait to go out to dinner with them. And then when you're on the court or the field, whatever, you just do it. You compartmentalize very well with that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
tough not great not gonna yeah so great it just doesn't work in life that way to compartmentalize your emotions and the things that you want you have to ask different questions even to your point about attention it's not necessarily the missed attention it's the very clear value structure for for yourself of like, where do I find my worth?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. Oh, God, that is true. It's like drilled in our existence.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
In sports, it's like, if you're doing X, Y, and Z. It's a meritocracy. Yeah, in sports, it is a meritocracy. Like, you know, I have to do this, this, this, this, and this in order to do this. And then if I do that, then I'm going to be valued and I feel good about myself and everybody else feels good. And then when you stop playing, it's like, well, where do you find your value?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
My sister asked me that the other day. How do you even evaluate yourself? Yeah, she was like, where do you find your value? I don't know. I literally was like, I don't think I know yet because what is life? Assists and goals. Yeah. I'm like, I don't really know. I'm starting to figure out what kind of things I like or even just our relationship to working out and our bodies.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Those questions have always just had answers. Yeah. And now it's like we're having to answer all these questions. And for us, we played for a long time. So it's also coming at this time in life. You're 43, about to be 44. I'm 39. It's already the sort of second coming of the existential crisis anyways. And so it's all coming at that time. And now you're like, well, what even is life?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I just got it. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I overpaid for it, but it's fine.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We did the apartment. The kids were holding off on it for now. But the other part that I would just add to that is For me, especially, you go from never having your needs in the forefront. I got very comfortable, like, my needs don't matter. The team's needs matter. As long as I'm servicing that, this machine works, and then my value gets shown, right? And then I get rewarded.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then you go into your real life and you're like, I have to tell you what my needs are? Yeah. How do you do that?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
What are they? Yeah, so at 43, well, I retired at 41. I was like, how do I tell even Megan what my needs are? I don't know how to do this. Are you guys in couples therapy? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. With Orna? Ugh. No. I love the show, though. We do love the show. We love it. We just love the show.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'm like, is it wrapped up and braided? The show just comes in with something new.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. You're dependent on your body in a way that you have no control over. And we always talk about control the controllables. There's so many cliches in sports, but some of them are true. And you do, you try to control as much as you can. So maybe you eat right, you sleep, you work out a certain way, you make sure you're strong. And yet you still have no control over it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And yet you're totally dependent on it. Because if you tear your ACL, you hurt your finger, whatever it is, you can't play. And there's your livelihood. But it really didn't stress me out till later in my career.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I mean, in my experience, tearing my ACL my freshman year is the best thing that could have happened to me.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, it woke me up in a way. I think I was very talented, obviously. You know, you don't go to UConn if you're not talented. But I needed something that was going to wake me up to really put me on a track where, like, I need to work harder. It was just a reset that I needed. Physically, I was young enough and, you know, you're a little ignorant. You're like, okay, I'll fix this. It'll be fine.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'll move on. You don't understand the magnitude of it. So you're lucky. I was 18 years old. Like, I don't fucking know. When I look back, by far the best thing that could have happened, like I said, it just put me on this other track of focus that I really needed. And now I'm not taking it for granted. I'm actually focused on this, what people call a craft now.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I wouldn't have called it then, but you're focused on your craft. You're trying to get better. I'm doing the shooting workouts at 6 a.m. I'm not complaining about it. It just put me in a whole other place.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
For me, it was more mental. Basically, I went from a relaxed version of myself to an incredibly focused version of myself.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I feel the same. Megan. What did you say? Megan.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
No, you're dead right. You're dead right. You're dead right. I feel the same and I'm really thankful that happened. So it happened after my freshman year, beginning of my sophomore year, five or ten games in. I had a great freshman year. I knew I was good, but I think that year in college, against the best competition, we won my freshman year. We won national championship.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You couldn't tell me shit. I was like, I'm the boss. This is going to happen every year. I'm like, I'm the shit. I'm so arrogant. My head's big. I'm just like strutting into my sophomore year and then got injured. Even that injury, similar to what you're saying. Physically, I'm like, oh, I got this. I'm going to get back quicker than anyone. Kind of like still in that same mindset.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then I did it again a year later. And I was like, okay, I get it. I'm not in charge.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think it took me out of myself and gave me this sense. And I have more language for it now than I would have back then. And this is how I've approached all my injuries since then. It's like, this is part of it. You don't get to control everything. You're not in charge of everything. You're not God. You do what you can. You control what you can control.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You can work really hard and set yourself up. But ultimately, sports, the fittest you are, the closer you are to an injury. The better you are and the more fit you are, I feel like you're always on that razor's edge.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You're playing as hard as you can. You're working as hard as you can. You're pushing the limits. Yeah, you're pushing the limits. You're always kind of right there. That's a risk that you take. You know, I tore my ACL again when I was 30. I obviously tore my Achilles at the end of my career, literally the last six.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We love The Row too, though. Aww. Dream sponsor. I don't think the twins sponsor anyone or give discounts or give a fuck about anyone, honestly.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
step i took i tore my achilles did you feel it go yeah yeah it was like the classic who kicked me i was like you gotta be fucking kidding me i was leaving i was like i'm leaving i was already leaving when i was young i feel like it gave me this perspective that was just like this is part of it this is life could we call it a surrender yeah definitely like a surrender to reality yeah
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But there's also like an opportunity. So I've had probably eight lower extremity surgeries, six on my knee, one on each of my hips. And each one you're a little different after. You can never go back. So that's the surrender part. It's really hard to let go of the previous version of yourself as an athlete and try to now create a new.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But once you do surrender and once you get comfortable, I think with whatever this new adaptation is going to be, you're like, oh, it might be better. And then you get a little psycho about that. And then you get a little addicted to that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Oh, that's a tough one. I feel like I could rank yours. No, I don't know. The most special, special one because it was my first was my gold medal in 2012. That was my first world championship. We had been in the World Cup final the year before we lost. And then obviously 2019 for a lot of different reasons was I feel like the crown jewel in my career. But that one, because it was my first.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It was special. I'm, you know, an American kid obsessed with the Olympics since I was little. Oh, and back to the injury part. A lot of people don't talk about the Olympics is so stressful because if you get injured, that's it. You don't get to participate. It's not a season where you're like, oh, I'm out for a couple of weeks or a couple of months and I'll get back.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I've had teammates that have torn their ACLs or done something right before the Olympics. And then you just don't get the chance. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like Olympics. Hope you're great in four years. Yeah. Again. Again. And it might have passed you up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Definitely. And that definition, I think, has changed over time as I became more educated about the history of America and what I was standing up for and just who I am in America as a woman, as a gay woman, what that means. But I always took an incredible amount of pride to be able to represent America
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's not always the version of America that everybody else wants to talk about or some people don't want to talk about. Certainly after kneeling with Colin Kaepernick, that was a different sense. But I always took a lot of pride in being like, oh, no, I'm American, too. This is also America. I mean, you guys always had that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I feel like women's basketball just intersects with every sort of ism possible. But I always took a lot of pride in being like, well, I'm American, too. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'm like, going back and forth in my head on what I want to pick here. I think for me, it is the Olympics. That's probably the tippy top. And that's because there was no WNBA for me growing up. Right. So yes, I wanted to get a college scholarship and that was kind of the immediate goal. But then it was the Olympics. That to me was, you've made it. You're an Olympian.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You heard about people going overseas, which I obviously did. But, you know, I'm not 15 dreaming about going overseas to play basketball. I'm 15 dreaming about being an Olympian. So to achieve that, for that reason, it's kind of hard to beat. But I am jockeying between what makes something more rewarding. Is it the stakes? Is it what you're representing? Is it the expectations?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I've been on teams where we weren't picked to win and then we did. And there's something special and different about that. But I've also been on teams that were expected. And we did. And there's something special about that. But I think to answer, it's the Olympics.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Sometimes it's just a relief to win. Yes. Like I think in the situations at the Olympics, there's a little bit of a relief. The expectation is perfection. And so once you get there, you're like, well, thank God we didn't fucking lose because that would be terrible.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's scary. It's just like an abatement of fear, really. You're also trying to recreate something from the year before, and that's a trap. Yeah, totally. You're like, but last year, guys, we did it like this. And this happened. Or last year, we did it like that. And it's a total trap that everybody, when they're trying to repeat, falls into. To the relief point.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's like at the end of the day, I'm still an American. So I'm like, oh, no, I am the best in the world. There is something about proving that to yourself. And when you are on those teams that have those expectations and you get to look around and just be like, oh, no, we are who we thought we were. That is special, too.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But there's something just unexpected and a surprise about winning when you weren't expected. That's just a different kind of special, I think. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'm like dating two people. Yeah. Not really, but. Rachel. Rachel, yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
What's going on? I'm also going to stay up for 30 minutes, obviously, to see what's going on here.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
That was a crazy time period in America. I never did an Ambien train. They would, like, give it to us on planes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
A big part of what happens and what gets overlaid is that if it doesn't look and feel exactly like men's sports, which of course it isn't because it's women's sports, then it's lesser. Everything is just automatically like, it's not going to be entertaining. It's not going to be fun. It's not going to make money. Nobody likes it. Nobody wants to watch. And it's like, that's actually just not true.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Women's sports, there's a ton of similarities because it's sports. But it is a different business. It's a different fan base, different business model. Things aren't exactly the same. If you go the business route for the WNBA, a big mistake was we took the NBA CBA 2003, I think is when we first became independent. The NBA actually owned the entire WNBA up until 2003.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then it went to individual team ownership, which is more the model we're all familiar with now. That's how NBA is now.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
So WNBA goes individual. So we now have to have a collective bargaining agreement. And we basically just took the MBAs and like copy pasted it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And it's like, oh, that doesn't fit. We didn't really get to change that until our last one, which was 2019.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Certain ways in which free agency was going to work. Certain ways in which the salary cap was going to work. Certain rules. Well, one big one is that we didn't have maternity leave. So that's different.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
That's the most obvious and most glaring. And then there's other smaller ways in which our league didn't get to have fun free agency.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
NBA, what do we all love about the offseason? The free agency, where are these people gonna go? We were limited.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, it just didn't work for our league. So there's like a business part to it. I think there is like a medical part, right? Nutrition, the way we lift, the way we work out. We've always been following male guidelines and we're obviously different. I feel like where you're going, correct me if I'm wrong, is are we being coached in a way?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I would expect it all for fraternity. Yeah, free 99 for sure. I'm coming in there and you need to tell everyone at every store in the world who I am. And I'm just like, as if it's a closet.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
So I've played for men. I've played for women. There's always been this unspoken understanding or not understanding, maybe like a knowing that like the women coaches are more emotional. Right. And that's been a negative.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Even internally. Like, oh, I don't want to play for her. Like she's just so much more emotional. Oh. Meanwhile, they're not. Men are more emotional and throwing stuff and having tantrums and not being able to control their emotions or name their emotions. It's just anger. But to your point, it's like, I think now we're finally getting to a place where we're questioning that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Like, well, is that bad? Right. Because women are, in my experience, are more collaborative. We do like to do things together. Emotionally intelligent. And we take that into consideration.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think the egos are different in women's sports than they are in men's. They exist.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
They exist. They exist. But I think it shows itself differently. Yeah. And we've always used the male model for judgment on those things.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And I think it's starting to shift and you're starting to see coaches. I'm not super familiar with what the Seahawks coach was saying, but I think in women's basketball, you're starting to find coaches that are looking to do it differently.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I had a coach where we had a player who was dyslexic and she totally changed how she drew up plays, how she described things. I think to your point, it's like meeting somebody where they are.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I have a lot more respect for coaches that can adapt versus the ones like, this is how I do it. I've had success this way. You fit me here.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think historically there's been also the vibe with coaches that they're the boss and the players work for them. And it's like, no, we're all coworkers. Your job is to lead the team and make decisions. And there's certain decisions that are your job that aren't my job as a player. But also I don't work for you. We're all working in an organization together.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We can all respect each other and give each other the space to have different ideas or to disagree or whatever it is. I think historically with men and women's sports, there's also the added layer of sexism. And then if there's sexual abuse that happens or sexual harassment or just like the vibes of it, there's all of that happening as well.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But I think even with men, just the sort of abuse that happens of just like, I'm going to tell you what to do no matter what. And it's a privilege for you to be here. And it's like, no, they're here because they're just as talented, probably more talented than you are, and we're all working together to do this.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
No, I'm getting everything for free. I know.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Or hug each other or show physical affection to each other. Yeah, grab each other's asses. Yeah, they do that weird pat thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Don't get me started on homoeroticism in male sports.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's like 28-ish years. It's still so new. Since 97, yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. I think the men do take a lot of pride when they play on the Olympic team. But their decision to do it, it's totally different. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
They don't even stay in the camp, I don't think. Yeah, we don't. So USA Basketball, men's and women's, it's one thing. So we do everything together. Oh, you do? Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Like before? Yeah, yeah. So I'm like 23 years old. I'd never met Allen Iverson. So I was like, well, he's kind of cool. Some of my favorite memories were just on the bus going to probably opening ceremony or something. And the whole time he was just like, name a sport. Give me a month. I'll be an Olympian. He was like, name it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
To a certain extent, but sometimes I'm like, well, how do you get it? You know, I guess that's the point. It's the work. I'm on the outside. Sometimes when it's too much. I mean, like the restaurant situation we're talking about with reservations in New York sometimes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
He was like, give me a month. Because that's how insane of an athlete he is, to be honest. And so gorgeous.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, I know. Why does he spend time with all of them? I could go down the list. We have good times. I think what I like most about the Olympic men's basketball team is these guys, they're all the best on their teams. They all have huge egos. They're all just like Mr. Man out there. And then they get there and the hierarchy shows itself.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Psychologically, it's really interesting because they're all good enough to play. And then you get in the game and it's like, oh, no, this is Steph LeBron and KD. Or you get in the game and it's Asia Stewie and really those two were the best. 2004 Athens Olympics is the one I'm referencing with Allen Iverson. LeBron, D. Wade, Melo are on that team. Wow. They didn't play a lot. No. That's crazy.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I was on the team with Diana Taurasi. We were kind of the young bucks. We didn't play a lot. Oh. So the five of us were just like every night like, what the fuck?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. It's an interesting experience. I love the drama. I mean, I'm here for all drama.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. So interestingly, the New York Liberty, who are in the WNBA finals now, they moved to Brooklyn a couple of years ago. So they had to change their mascot up and they have Ellie the elephant. I think it's like short for Ellis Island or something like that. This mascot has tapped into something, I think, in terms of spectators, fans, the connectedness.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's like arguably Ellie is like bigger than the players.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
She was just on stage with Justin Timberlake when he performed at Barclays. Was on stage when Missy and Ciara came through, performed with Ciara. So the show, when you go to the game, is very much about the game and very much about Ellie. People go for Ellie. And I think that speaks to women's basketball fans. If you see her perform, you'll understand what I'm saying.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Long Island, yep. So it's like a coming home, which is really nice. Megan always wanted to live there, so I was like, great.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You have to see it. Check it out. She's working and dancing. She'll do like a Beyonce set. She's like, this is my show.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. I think too, men's sports has not always been an actually safe place for a lot of people to go. If you think about an NFL game.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. Yeah. or the Cowboys or anybody else, you know, take 2016, 17, 18, and you are a queer person trying to go to the game. You're, you know, a black family trying to go to the game. Maybe it's just not always the safest place for you. And it's very much marketed like this is who we are. It's jets flying over. It's explicit conservative patriotism.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And for women's sporting events, I think this has always been true. Basically, it's like, don't be racist, misogynistic, sexist, or homophobic. That's the rules, period. And then have fun. Bring your friends. Bring your family. Be queer. Be black. Be whatever you want to be. And just come and enjoy the sport that's being played.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Have you been there? Oh, yeah, yeah. I've been there for sure.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's hyper-masculine. There's a lot of alcohol. Drunk. It's drunk. There's people fighting. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I mean, traditionally, I think women's sports has just had its own fan base for a very long time. And I think as women's sports has gotten more popular over the last five, six, seven years, people are coming to the games because they want to support something bigger. A woman who's suffering equal pay issues in her own job is like, you know what? I'm going to the soccer game. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It has this culture. They're the ones doing identity politics. I'm going to do my fan rundown. The way I see it is this, in sports, There's like three buckets of fans. There's the diehards. They love the sport. They're in no matter what. They're like doing their own stats.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Then there's the people that don't give a shit. And that's okay too. There's people that don't like certain sports and they just don't care. You'll never get them. And then there's the bigger bucket, which is the casual fan. And I think for women's sports, we've had a really hard time tapping into the casual fan at times. And that's what you're seeing in this rise.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's the more casual fan where it doesn't have to just be about the game. For some, it is. For some, it's not. I remember when the Sounders, which is the MLS team in Seattle, when they started to get really big and they averaged, I think, like a league best. Yeah, they're 40,000 a game. It's like 40,000 a game. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And so I went to a game and the first thing I noticed was, okay, everybody's got the scarf on. People love a scarf in soccer. We'll get to that in a second. In group. In group. That's right. They were doing a tailgate thing. Then we got to the game and a large percentage of the people around me clearly did not know the rules. And then I was like, what is happening here?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And I was like, oh, you're a part of something. There's a community. So for some, it's that. And so I just think that casual bucket, who cares where they're going? Something touched them and they're going. And women's sports is finally tapping into that. Because for a while, we were just the punchline. So the casual fan was like, why do I go to a WNBA game? They're making fun of it on SNL.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Right, right. That's all changing. I might as well go to a baseball game. Yeah, it's cool to be at an NBA game. It's cool to be at an NFL game. They don't care about the sport either.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
No. Honestly, whenever I tell people from California, they're like, cool. And I'm like, not that one. And then they vote North and they're like, cool. And I'm like, not that either. Yeah. They're like, what else is there? Do you surf, redwoods, or snowboarders? I know, Redding is really interesting because it's situated right on I-5, so it's this sort of throughway all up and down the West Coast.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think there's some of that. It's a real sort of counterculture vibe. Yeah. Sounders have that definitely here in LAFC. The chanting. It's like all the football fans have been captured. The baseball fans have been captured. It's classic America sports. And this is like, ooh, it's a little subversive. Right. I think we like that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, it's fun. It's a cool vibe with all the supporters groups and they're yelling and they got the flags and the flares and the tipos and it's crazy. And the scarves. And the scarves, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It started during the pandemic just on Instagram Live because we were like, we know what the people need. Us drinking. Us drinking and fucking around. That's sort of the ultimate origin story. But then we did a couple of live shows and those were just fun. Like at the Women's Final Four. Tell me more.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Like a bar restaurant. Like a little bar restaurant type vibe. The fans come and then we get up there and we kind of do like a version of a live podcast basically.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We're pretty good. We'll go long. Okay. That's kind of our, I feel like we're yacking. We don't know how to not go long. Yeah, same. Yeah. But we're at certain events that beg for certain topics to be talked about. Yes. There's not like as much leeway. We're at the final four. We're talking about basketball. We're talking about that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, so we met at the Nike house, I think.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I always say it's the one place you go, to be honest, to feel like shit about yourself because... Everybody look. Yeah. Even better. So good. Yeah. Like you think you look good and then you see like a track and field athlete.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And you're like, holy fuck. And you're like, oh yeah. Have I ever done a sit up? Like it's happening. Cause like we're obviously in shape, but we're not worried about one 10th of a second. Right. And that's a different kind of shape.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
All the soccer players look the same. When we first started dating, I was actually, like I said earlier, I'm only 5'9". In my world, I'm tiny. Yeah. I'm in the back, in the middle seat, always in the car. Like always. I just took that on as my identity. Then we got together. And her teammates were like, she's huge. Yeah. She's a freak. Shotgun for Sue. Where'd you get this giraffe? Literally. Wow.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Totally, in the meth pipeline. Drug use is, especially historically, totally rampant, especially meth. But then it's right next to the Golden Triangle, which is the best weed in the world.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And it was interesting because I was like, oh, as a soccer player, you have to be of a certain height and build because you have to run. You're not going to be 6'8". You have to be able to run. If you can't run fast, you can't play. Right. And run forever. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
USA has a house. Nike has a house. I'm sure Adidas has a house.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's more like a place to go because the Olympics are kind of wild. And for the athletes, you're in the village. You don't really get to see your family. They can't come in the village. So a lot of brands, a lot of different people have these houses, which is really just a place you can go and bring your family. Oh. See your people.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
They'll have like events or they'll have food or they'll have a little shopping section or sometimes they'll throw a party. And it's kind of these multi-use spaces that's like Nike's setting up here for the Olympics kind of deal.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I was with my teammates. Our team had already gone out. We like bombed out of the Olympics. I think you were there socially. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
A lot of my teammates, we weren't even in Rio for our games. Soccer travels all over. So we hadn't even gone to Rio yet. Most of my teammates, it was pretty devastating loss. We did terrible. They were like, we're going home. This is awful. And I was like, well, I'm going to drown myself in Rio and I'm going to have myself a ball. There was like six or seven of us that went down there.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It was great. So you had not met before. We're in the same agency, not the same agent. And we both play in Seattle in our professional team. We knew of each other. We had met once. But what the Olympics really marked was like, this is dumb. We're both in Seattle. Why aren't we friends and hanging out? Why aren't our teams hanging out? This is stupid. And that's really how it started.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I was engaged to someone at the time. I'm like dating. I was engaged to someone at the time. And yeah, we were going through a little bit of a rough patch and that wasn't going to work. And then obviously meeting Sue, it just became very clear, clear that. Clearly queer. Yeah. Yeah. Then it escalated.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
After I broke up with. Real fun. I broke up with my fiance at the time and then we started talking. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Was it coordinated about retiring at the same time, roughly?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
That's crazy. Is that a record in the WNBA? Were you the longest playing? Maybe. Definitely up there. Yeah, you and Diana probably.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. It was my favorite Derek Jeter quote when he retired. He was like, oh, I went from being an old man to a young man. Because when you're 41 in sports, you're old as fuck. And they treat you that way and they talk about your age and they ask you what you're going to do. As soon as you hit 30, they're like, oh, what are you going to do next? Retirement conversation. Yeah. Wow.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then the minute you retire, like, oh, I'm young again. This is great. I'm not the oldest one at dinners. This is amazing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then there is also traditional granola hippie vibes going on in and around Reading. I think a lot of people go there to like be left alone or have gone there to be left alone. But then it's also just a very normal conservative. And then there's like this evangelical church has gotten really big up there, Bethel, which I don't fuck with at all. And they have gotten into like
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'm like, just let him live. He's just driving his car. Just let him live.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. So what's interesting about that is you're in your late 30s, early 40s, but you're at an expert level in your career. But now you get to go into this, what we call like the real world. And we do have an expertise that's unique. We hit that level of our career, but we're young again. And I think that's really where we are. And that's what makes what we're doing exciting.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Like whether it's the podcast or the other business ventures that we're in, we have an expert level, but we're still pretty young. You have time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
With the podcast, what was so... And even our production company that we started and wanting to get into media and content. Storytelling is the most important thing, whether it's writers and their books or journalists storytelling what's happening in the world or storytelling and narrating around sports. And women's sports has had such a lack of...
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
of storytelling, understanding, conversation, a lack of nuance. And we've lived, you say it all the time in a very non-arrogant way, like we really are the experts. We've lived through this crazy period of basically the last 25 years where now we're at this period in sports where basically all the money's like, okay, fine, women's sports, we're going to do it. It seems like it's a good
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
thing and now there's all this money coming in and there's all this interest and there's all these eyeballs and stories need to be told we are really in a position it's like we know all the stories we know where all the bodies are if we don't know it personally we know the person who does know it personally yeah we've lived it all we've understood how we've gotten to this moment so i think with the podcast and with our production company we really feel like we're in this position to like
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
narrate all the history, but also this is how we should be talking about women's sports. This is how it's different from men's sports. Cause we also know men's sports. We're huge fans of men's sports for our whole lives. And we've had so much, whether it's the last dance or just watching it for so long, we have so much information about it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
This is so exciting for us and why we even want to do this. Cause as you guys know, it's a lot of work to like sit in front of a mic and prepare and tell these stories and do this narration all the time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But it's a really exciting time, I think, for both of us. And what excites both of us about it is we really know what it is and how the story should be told to bring more people in because we're like, this is amazing here. Women's sports is incredible. Sports are incredible.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's one of the most vulnerable things you can watch someone do live is to try their very hardest with their physical body in tandem with other people and like try to achieve this goal. And somebody's trying to stop you. And somebody's trying to stop you. Somebody's trying to do the same thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
conversion therapy and mysticism. And it's to me, bad news bears. And it's just a wild place.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Sports stories are so human. Whether you're climbing the face of El Capitan, which none of us can do, you can like understand the story of what Alex is doing up there. Yes. Or watching Power of the Dream, like you guys documented how they basically saved America. You understand what's happening and you can feel yourself in that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It came out. Oh, my God. So exciting. I know. It's so cool. Look at the ding, ding, ding here. You brought a Barbie. She is a Barbie. You are one. Yeah, I always joke my Barbie has better knees than I do. I'm like low-key jealous. They made her bionic. I'm like, damn. Oh, that's exciting. I need that technology. No, it really does matter. I feel like that's what's so cool about women's sports.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's to see it be it. It's like, yeah, you're talking about gay women and black women and queer women and straight women and white women. It's like there's a million things going on in here and everybody can find their place in it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I was like, am I an F1 super fan? Yes, she is. Because they gave us the protagonists.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's all the story around it. It's all the history around it. It's all of the little things that pull you in. That's why I love the Olympics so much because they show you the pre-story, and especially how it used to be where it was like it's coming on at prime time. They show you the story, and then you watch that person go and run around the track.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I want to see you win. All of those things matter. And then you're invested in it. And then, yeah, sports are sports. They're fun and it's an event to go to. Like a concert or a comedy show or the farmer's market or you go to sports. It's like this is something that we're doing for entertainment. I think there's something that you always say that's like, not every sport is for every person.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You said baseball was boring, but you can maybe go one time and enjoy it. Or you don't go at all and you don't love it. And you say, I'm literally stealing this for you. But it's like, but you don't shit on baseball every day. You don't like spend all of your time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Right. You're not spending all of your time on the platform that you have to make sure everybody knows you hate baseball.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And that's what people do to women's sports. So it's like, you don't... have to even come to the most popular ones that you'll probably like. You don't even have to do that. But why do you have to shit on it? Why do you have to tear that down? Why is it threatening? That's the point. It's okay if you like one thing better than another.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I would argue that, and I can't really pull like an exact example, but I might argue that, I'm not going to argue this, someone might say men's tennis is more, what, athletic, exciting than women's tennis. And yet, Aren't there people that prefer women's tennis? So it is just the preference. And then back to what Megan said. Women's basketball is a great example. We don't dunk.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, no, you tell a lot with your facial expressions, for sure.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We have to deal with this all the time. You guys don't dunk. It's boring. Oh, that's the big complaint? Yes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I love that. But it's like you constantly have to answer that, but it's like, okay, you don't like it. That's fine. But what she said, why do you feel the need to shit on it? Because that shitting on it has infested and gotten in the veins of like the cultural cachet of it all.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
For basketball, I have one. Oh, great. It's very specific to basketball.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Okay, so different from some other sports, particularly team sports, a lot of men, boys, play basketball. They play it. They play it on the park. They play it in gym class. They play it on their teams in elementary school, middle school, so on. and so forth. And they think they're good.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And what do men a lot of times do in my experience is they're constantly sizing the women's basketball players up. And so they're looking like, I could do that. I could beat you. And that is their way of like flexing that they could do it. And therefore it doesn't have value. So that happens a lot. And I think it's because basketball is just such a popular sport in our country.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I can't even tell you how much I encounter that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
No one thinks they're a good swimmer. Soccer, Megan doesn't get this. Rare, if ever, does she have a guy come up to her and be like, I could take you. Yeah. Whereas this is like, well, if it's not an actual one-on-one game, it's a game of horse.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I mean, yeah. I don't think she minds people knowing that. Yeah, that's true.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
All the time. I'm constantly, now a lot of times it's friendly. They're not being jerks. It's like a friendly banter. Maybe, you know, we're out at a bar. I don't know what it is, but it happens all the time. And I'm smaller. Sometimes it's someone who maybe did have a good high school career, maybe played D2, D3.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And I always say, this is always my, I'm like, if I had your body, I'm like, you'd be looking at the highest paid player in the NBA.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's just that I don't, you know, because there's six, seven. Yeah. Anyways.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
My mom was a waitress for the whole time we lived there. She actually just retired a couple years ago, Jack's Grill, which is like a really cool sort of simple steakhouse bar. It was one of the nicer restaurants, but it's not like nice. It's Saltine's. on the table when you were a kid. Yeah, no white tablecloth or anything. And then my dad mostly worked in construction.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Not to say that all men are Elon Musk, but we have questions. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I've been at dinners. We've been at dinners with close friends. And some of them are married couples, men, women. And there was this one topic that went around of who's the best shooter. And by the way, a lot of my friends are former athletes also. Basketball players, the women are. And their husbands didn't play in college, but they played. I've seen them play. They're decent.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And we went around the table. Who's the best shooter at the table? I didn't get picked first.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Or it was, well, okay, yeah, I guess we have to pick Sue first. And I just don't know.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. I'm not even going to go in the Steph Curry route. Yeah, Reggie Miller. Yeah, Jason Kidd. Not even the best of the best, but like they would ever say. well, I guess we have to put Jason first. Because Steph Curry, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, yeah, they'd be like, oh, of course, guys, yeah. LeBron even. So you could argue LeBron's not the greatest shooter of all time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Anyone could make that argument. And yet they would still be like, oh, LeBron's first. And I was just looking around. I was like, guys,
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
What are we doing here? Let's go to this three-point line right now. For women in general, it's like, what's it going to take? Men's ball, women's ball, volleyball, beach ball, pick it. Let's go. I think there is something about, and I think this generally happens in equality conversations, but there is something about women getting more rights that feels threatening.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And it's like, no one's taking your rights away, men. No one's doing that. That's not inequality that we're having more rights, right?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Well, I do think there's something that's generally happening in America with the falsehood of the American dream of if you work hard and do X, Y, and Z, then you'll get X, Y, and Z. Whether that's in a job, which is not true anymore.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
There used to be a path for it and then corporations got greedy and are blaming it on immigrants that now you can't have this pathway to have a job and have a life and success because other people are taking it. It's like really corporate profits have gone up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
crazy so there's that part but then there's also this part of oh you're a guy these are the things that you deserve you're entitled to a woman and it's like no nobody's entitled to anybody else women don't not need men obviously not every woman is a gay woman otherwise that would be a problem that would be a problem but like you're not entitled to this other person so what are you bringing to them yes what are they bringing to you the relationship is just becoming more equal
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Men, I think, have historically been told, be hyper-masculine, do these things, don't show any emotion. And they are going through a crisis. Yeah. We're asking for something a little different. Yeah. And I also am kind of like, and that's not our emotional labor to hold. That's men's. You guys have to take that on yourself and figure that out.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We have to do that for ourselves while fighting against the threat that is inequality. I think men are going through a crisis now. I feel that and I see that and I am empathetic to that. And also, we figured it out like under the boot so you guys can do it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Not even hippie anarchist. Honestly, I don't even know.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
What's the name of your podcast? A Touch More.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Thank you. We're learning. We're figuring it out. It's a good 30. So many questions for you guys. We're still learning. Yeah. The interviewing is probably where, as two people interviewing one person, that's a dance we're getting. That's a hard thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
They were in San Diego, and I was like, what happened?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think so, yeah. We got a couple of cool things coming out. We adapted a book, Clique Cute. The show is going to be called Playing the Field. Okay. Yeah, Sarah Tapscott, who did College Lives of Sex Girls, New Girl. Yeah, sorry, Sex Lives of College Girls.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And then when they got together, they moved to Carson City. I think my mom's mom was sick at the time. They went to take care of her. And then I don't know how they ended up in Reading. I still have a lot of questions of what happened there. And then they never left.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
and the college lives of sexy girls honestly one and the same yeah i'm saying you guys she's our showrunner so we're really excited about that one and then we have like a reality show coming up oh good yeah we're excited okay so you're not going to be sitting around there'll be a shooting schedule schedules in your future we have lots of schedules you know google docs and i know calendars inserted in the calendar maybe literally maybe
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Thanks for having me. Thank you. And maybe let your daughters win in horse. I think I changed my mind. I've been stewing over here.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
You need a tree. It's like five or seven. Yes. My oldest sister is actually my aunt. It's my mom's youngest sister who she raised. And my youngest brother is my nephew. It's my brother's child that my parents raised. Okay, okay. I say seven. It's really five. Who cares? I just leave it out there for people.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It's kind of like that. Like all the houses are the same. You can ride your bike everywhere. Like pretty chill, middle class.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Syosset. So it's in Nassau County, North Shore.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Natalie Portman. Oh, shit. What's her last name though? Hershlog. Hershlog, yeah. So Natalie was a year younger than I was. Oh, she was? She went to your high school? Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
She did. You did too? I also did, yeah. So we only went to high school one or two years. Whoa.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
She came in. Right. I left like a year or two later.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. So she came into school. We're like, oh shit, that's the actress.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah, yeah. Honestly, the way she is now when you're around her, almost unassuming. Yeah. Just kind of chill. Same thing. Obviously, it was just in a blockbuster movie, if you will. And just totally chill.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Yeah. I can't even explain it. I don't want to downplay who she was, but at the same time, it was like, she wore sweats to school. Yeah. Just so chill. Just another kid. Just another kid.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
But only because we had very quickly different lanes. She's way smarter than I am. Academics was her thing. She also played sports, but sports was my thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And so we didn't have a lot of competition in sports. I probably was beating her like very early. Do you have an older brother? Yeah. Yeah. It's different for boys. Like we weren't wrestling. It wasn't like a physical.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It was the greatest day of my life. That's how I felt when I first scored on my dad. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, my dad's 6'3". I'm only 5'9". So who knows what I was then, 5 foot. And when I finally scored on my dad while we were just like shooting at the park, that was like a big day.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
No, you want them to get it on their own. Because when you earn that, that's yours forever.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'm not saying if it was basketball, it's not like you got to block their shot crazy all the time. Every time. You don't have to like, yeah, to come in and tumble them. But no, you don't have to like let them. Yeah, this actually happened. Very sad. With Rachel and I and our older brother, Michael. He kicked our ass in basketball. He's like 10 years older than us.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
He's probably 15 years older than us. He's so much older than us.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
and we played him like 2v1 we were probably 14 years old he was barefoot in the street he tore his feet up so bad he had to put like maxi pads on his feet and he kicked our ass and he gloated about it and we were just like first of all whatever you're fucking grown man you're gonna beat us but we were pissed like he could very easily let us win we were just like no we had to try our hardest i mean we didn't beat him and i'm sure we took it out on some other kids at school probably took it
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I don't know. I don't know. I'm like trying to think. When I play with my nieces, same. I don't shoot like deep threes off the dribble. I'm not like doing that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
That's so cool. Yeah. Played on good teams.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I'll tell you why I shot well in college. So I was injured my freshman year. I basically missed the whole year. So I really only played three years in college. And the fall of my sophomore year, it's very common in preseason, you have these 6 a.m. workouts. So we had them three times a week. After every 6 a.m. workout, he would make me shoot threes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
It wasn't crazy, like 30, 45 minutes, but like three times a week for two months. Just you? Yeah, me and a coach. And then he would watch.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
In shooting percentages, if it goes up 2%, that's ginormous. I bet if you looked at my freshman year to my sophomore year, I bet there was easily a 15% jump. Wow.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We already have Sue. We can't bring them on. But I'll tell you what, he didn't take it easy on me. I'm answering your question. Okay. He was a pain in my ass, to be honest.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I agree. You do agree? Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's both of our experiences. There's, of course, times where they're tired or they're being little shits or whatever. And you're like, no, these are things that are important. My parents were always like, you guys lead. But the one thing they were like, you're going to try hard. If we half-assed or something, they were like, oh, no, no, no.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
We're not putting all this time and effort in for that. And there's certain life things that you've got to teach your kids. But I think in general, it kind of shows itself. In kindergarten, we were like busting kids' ass in kindergarten. We're the most athletic kids in kindergarten. Like from a young age, you're probably going to be showing some signs of athletic talent and aptitude.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Just like if you were, you know. Music, anything. Yeah, exactly.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Sacramento. Sacramento. In the Bay Area. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
They honestly had very frank conversations with us of like, if you two want to do this, great. We'll sacrifice our whole life for this. No problem. No, they were like, we'll do this, but we're not going to be dragging you through it. They made that very clear. And we were like, no, we want to do it. And they were like, OK, let's go.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
I think when we were younger, it was in a play sense. We just played everything together all the time. I think we made it similar to your relationship with your older brother. It was like we made each other better because we could go without any insecurity as hard as we wanted at each other.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
And we played one-on-one baseball, one-on-one football, one-on-one basketball, one-on-one... One-on-one baseball.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
He was like, you're batting and running and hitting all at the same time. And we didn't really have that jealousy of each other. We more so were like, we're playing this together. We always played different positions. We went through different times where like, she was a lot better than me. Pretty much until midway through high school. I feel like I hit puberty kind of later.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
She was always much better and more confident. Midway through high school, maybe like my junior year, I feel like I grew and grew into myself. But we were both great.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird
Portland was a little bit more difficult, honestly, for both of us. We both had a lot of injuries. Rachel was severely anemic her freshman year and she didn't know it and it was undiagnosed. So it was kind of like a shame on her thing of like, you're not working hard enough or you're not fit. But really, she was severely anemic. So all through her first year, it was really difficult.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Animal Attack II
Thank you for supporting us. Always. I appreciate the entertainment.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Animal Attack II
It's on the way. While I was listening to the cookie boy disagree, that's when I purchased it. While I'm walking the dogs, I bought it while you're disagreeing about who would or would not wear the shirt. I would encourage you to wear it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Animal Attack II
All the comments, Monica, were I bought the cookie boy shirt because of that. Oh, my God. We're here for you.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Really good question. We are still friends with quite a few of the people who got us together. We always text them on Valentine's Day, like, thanks so much, guys.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
But like you asked about sometimes your perfect match isn't a one-to-one match. He's a Scorpio. I'm a Sagittarius. So there is a lot of things in common, but plenty of difference. And I think that's what
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
really clicked in for us was that it was all about balance we pushed each other but also challenged and supported so even our careers complemented each other i'm a graphic designer so i work remote so i can go wherever it's like we're moving to wichita i'm like great they have computers and wi-fi there right no big deal okay i'm gonna ask a challenging question now so you've been with i don't know what number boyfriend he was but certainly from your senior year till now adulthood you've been with the same person is there any tension with that
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
No, and he was really my first real boyfriend because I didn't date anybody after that match. I was just so terrified of dating and seeing my friend's heart get broken. My mom was a single mom. And I was like, this is a lot. And I think I just needed to be ready to open up. I think once I started dating Sean, and he was so... kind, so patient, so sweet. I didn't really need to look anywhere else.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
It all just kind of felt right. It just worked.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Thank you too. We love the show. Listen all the time. The genuine heartfelt conversations. It's great. Keep making them.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
The year is 2009. It was October 29th. I remember this because me and a few friends were going to the Jay-Z concert. You lucky fucks. Yeah. He came to London, Ontario.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I think artists come here because it's in between Detroit and Toronto. So it's like another venue stop.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
It's like an OHL arena, which is a level below the NHL hockey arena. But we've had like Billy Joel, Sting, Cher.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
We're really lucky. Hove came. And of course, we weren't going to pass that up. But a caveat in the story was the Yankees were playing the World Series. So it's game two of the World Series. And of course, they're going to ask him to perform. He was flying in late. There was four openers. So it was probably OK that he was late. But as a result, everyone at the venue was getting absolutely trash.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
So he was flying in privately after New York to London, not a long flight, but we got there when doors opened at the venue. So we got pretty inebriated to say the least. I was 20 years old. It was fun.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
He probably didn't go on stage until even like 1030 that night. It was rowdy. It was fun. It was a good show. So after that, we wanted to keep the party going. So we went to a local bar, walked to one. It wasn't too far away. We were having fun at the bar in a booth. I got up to either see a friend or go dance and I left all my stuff in the booth.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I was with friends, so I wasn't too worried about it. But when I went back, they were all gone.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
They took my stuff. They're good friends. But as a result, I was like, I can't go meet them at another bar. I don't have money for a cab. I don't have my phone. They just left you? Yeah, I don't know. We were all kind of out of it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I wasn't mad at them. Happy-go-lucky, having a great night. So I just figured the night's about to wind down anyways. I'll just walk back to their student house a few kilometers down the road. There's a big strip of bars in London. So I felt very safe and not worried. concerned at all. Like most people were out partying that night were students, young people.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Halfway through my walk, this guy starts walking with me. He was holding a longboard. Oh, he wasn't at the bars, but he was a bit younger. So I wasn't again, concerned. And he did say you shouldn't be walking alone. Yeah. And I, again, happy go lucky me talk to everyone. Wasn't very concerned about it. And I said, well, if you want, you can walk with me.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
So we started making small talk and he just said, I just knocked someone out down the road.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I got tripped on my longboard and we got in a fight. I was not too surprised. He was wearing a tap out shirt. So I said, that seems on brand. He mentioned he was a trained fighter. He got a lot out in that first couple minutes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
A few more minutes down the road, three cruisers pull over and they grab him and they grab me.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
And he starts yelling like, let her go, let her go. I don't know her. I was just walking with her.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Right. And we were on like the main street, too. You think he would have cut down a neighborhood street. So ultimately they take him away, but they wanted a statement from me. And I was all jazzed up to talk to the cops and thought it was hilarious. So I gave them one. And they also drove me home and flattered me by putting on the lights.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Time passes now after that happens. I kind of didn't really think much of it. Now we're in spring 2011. Two years later. Yes. I got a letter in the mail, me being subpoenaed to court. So we're going to call the guy I was walking with longboard Andrew. Basically, Andrew's attorney wanted to use me as a witness because he's being charged with assault.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
So I show up at court and I was waiting and waiting. So I sat down beside a different person and I just, again, as I do, I was chatting with him. The guy was kind of annoyed. He was just saying like, I have to take off work to be here. We chatted for about 20 minutes and Andrew's attorney came to grab me and they read me my statement.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Ultimately, after they read it back to me, they decided I wasn't going to be a reliable witness and they let me go home. On my way out, though, I did see that guy was sitting beside and I told him, good luck for whatever reason you're here. And I was on my way.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Yeah, he was involved in one of the trials. But the thing is, where the courtroom is, there's 10 different courtrooms. We didn't get too into it. He was a bit more of a shy guy. But now we're in September 2011, just a bit later that year. I start working at a new bar downtown. And I started doing guest list and cover charge. So I would stand kind of outside the bar.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
And it was quite a popular student bar, young person bar. It had quite a line on busy nights. And if any of my friends knew me or anyone recognized me, they'd try to cut the line as you do. I hear one night, hey, Julie, remember me? It's Curtis from court.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Yeah. I walked over and then I ultimately did remember him too. And he was with a bunch of friends. So obviously asking to cut the line and I let them in. Later, he had a bit of liquid courage in him and he asked if he could buy me a drink after my shift. Ah. I was intrigued and single, so I accepted.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
The sim part of the story is that I was now having a drink with the guy who got knocked out by Andrew. No!
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Oh my god. And the knockout happened in front of the bar I was working at. Oh my god. So another one of the witnesses ended up being a bouncer that worked at that bar too, which is kind of funny. Wow. This is wild. The reason it went to court was this Andrew guy, it wasn't his first assault, but he also hit Curtis so hard that he had brain trauma and was in the ICU for like a week.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
When this guy was saying he was a trained fighter, it all kind of makes sense. So a few weeks after that, Kurt and I started dating. Now we're married. We have two kids.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Obviously, he doesn't remember anything after being knocked out, but he probably did trip the guy. In London, Ontario, after the bars get out, it is like mayhem. There are so many people out on the sidewalk. So for anyone to even be skateboarding down a sidewalk is going to run into someone.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Ultimately, it's kind of funny because me and Kurt are very different. I'm super outgoing. He's a bit more reserved and he's always harping on me for talking to strangers. But I never would have met him if I didn't strike up conversation with him in court and I didn't walk with a stranger who had assaulted him.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Yeah, we love that. Thank you. I wrote in for a few different things. Did you guys ever have sleepwalking prompts?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I wrote in for that one too, but if it ever circles back. If we do a part two.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
It doesn't have to have gone wrong.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I think people do it at sports stadiums all the time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Thank you. It was lovely meeting you guys.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Do everything in your power to bring Ted Seegers to Ontario.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Looking forward to it. So nice meeting you. Take care.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
We are. Did you do that for sound? Yes, that was the advice given. We both wanted to be here because we're both big fans.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Hiking. And we're actually with friends right now, so we did a little couples trip just to get away from it all.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
It's actually right at the end of snowy season, so we haven't had to have the snowshoes or anything. So we only slipped a little yesterday. Oh, okay.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I usually tell this story and Sean fact checks me or helps keep the plot going. So I will kick us off. Sean and I are from Cincinnati, Ohio. Go ahead.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
We went to the same high school. Shout out Colerain High School. The year was 2008. I was a shy little baby sophomore. And Sean was a senior at the time. The junior class was having a fundraiser for Valentine's Day. And they had the whole school take a compatibility test.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I know. Do you guys remember Scantron? Yes. Like those little tickets. So that's what we all use to like fill out our compatibility test.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Very organized thing. And I was type A. So I was like, great. Just tell me who my boyfriends are. Let's just get this whole thing over with.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
On Valentine's Day, you handed over five bucks and then you got your little report of your top 10 matches in the school. The cool part was, is you could see where you fell on your matches list because it wasn't always your number one match. You were their number one match because they could have had someone more compatible.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I have tried to look it up because I've had people like, what is the authenticity here? And I'm like, I didn't ask any questions.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I open up my little report and I see my top 10 matches and I'm like, oh my God, I matched with a senior. That's a man. What am I going to do? I went from like no boyfriend, never been kissed. Now I'm matching with a senior man. So I turn around to my friend in class and I'm like, do you know who this Sean guy is? And she's like, wait, you matched with him. That is the hottest guy in marching band.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Still great. Our school was big, so I had never heard of him.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
So the marching band gets wind of this, and we have interconnecting friend circles. So they all coordinated our little meet-cute in the band room at the end of the day. I was a nervous wreck the whole day, and they had to drag me down the stairs, push me on my heels. The band separates in the band room, and there he is, the hottest guy in marching band. Oh!
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
I was like so shy and intimidated by the whole thing. I was like, great. Hi, we did a hug. And he had that deep voice. So I was like terrified. And he's pretty shy too. It took us a minute to actually reconnect. I ended up texting him when I was a senior and he was a sophomore.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
You let it go to see if it would return. Oh, well. It was almost like too much. It was very intense, very overwhelming. I wasn't ready to get married.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Meet Cute II
Yeah, this is too much. Before my senior year, I went to leadership camp and I got all this confidence. And I was like, I'm going to text the hottie from Marching Ant to see if he remembers me. And he was in college now, so I was ready for a college boyfriend. So I sent him a text and the rest is history. You started dating immediately? Pretty much immediately.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Yeah, I'm sorry that they didn't teach their kids how to grasp the concept of party etiquette. It wasn't their birthdays.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
They want to ruin the damn surprise.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
God, you sound like one of the damn whiny parents that called.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Good. She doesn't want those kind of friends anyway. And where did you guys get off? I hope you're proud of yourself for trying to drag a good mom down on live radio for trying to make her daughter happy. Okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for all of the tips of how to be a good mother. How about I give you guys some advice? Get real jobs.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
My mother gives me that same advice. You really are a good mom. Who the hell works on radio anymore? Nobody.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Oh, no problem. That's refreshing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Yeah. I've already had some other whiny parents call about this issue. So whatever you're about to say, just save it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Yeah. So I don't think any of you really understand that it was my child's birthday party, so I get to make the rules. Oh.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
You know I paid for all the bears, right? I didn't see your credit card plop down on the desk at Build-A-Bear. It was mine.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Tears. Oh, my gosh. Give me a break.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
This was a birthday party, not a charity event to give bears to the less fortunate.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Go get together and report me to the Build-A-Bear police. God, who cares if it's done?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I'm sorry, man. She just said, like, basically you kept making excuses, so I wanted to help her out.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I will say, like, you are a really nice guy. Like, you were really hospitable. You were really cordial. You didn't try anything crazy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Sorry, Michael. I'm actually engaged.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. He knows all about it, and he thinks it's hilarious. Oh, okay. Oh, my God.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Yeah, Michael, you definitely got to be more aware of your surroundings and don't bring people to your house. Okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I'm speaking. Oh. Hey, Megan. Hey. Hey. Hello. You are so friendly.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
oh my god oh my god you're just freaking out you sound excited but uh no that's the word well i don't know what okay wait you said michael like michael called you yeah yeah well
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Oh, my gosh. I cannot believe this is happening.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I don't know if I'd say excited. Okay. Are you embarrassed? Embarrassed for you? Absolutely, 100%. Why? I thought it was him.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Okay, I don't even know where to begin. I really don't even know if I should tell you.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Yeah. So let me just say, I've never done anything like this before. What do you mean?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I swear. Seriously, guys, I'm a good person.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
What are you talking about? Okay, so I kind of didn't bump into Michael at the grocery store, like not by accident.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I don't know if he told you like we met in a grocery store or not.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Yeah, well, I'm kind of like I know his ex-girlfriend. Wait, what? Yeah, like we're in a book club together. So, you know, we're girl pals. We chill, we talk, you know.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Yeah, I kind of followed him there because... Oh, why? She basically was, like, venting one day, and she was like, my ex-boyfriend won't give me back my guitar. Oh, my God. One thing leads to the next. And, yeah, so we kind of set up to, you know, run into Michael at the grocery store.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
I didn't steal anything. That's hers. Oh, man. Yeah.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Michael. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. I really am.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Secret Mission
Yeah, I flipped it outside the door when I went to the bathroom. Oh.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
My actual winning fish, Cleo, gone.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Thank you. Hi guys.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
I haven't even adopted another pet, so not even an option.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
All right. I went on this date with Mark, a very lovely man.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
We met at an art gallery, actually.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes, actually it was.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
So I was just checking out this piece of art and this cute guy just kind of started talking to me about it. And we just kept chatting and walking and we were both very spontaneous. So we just went out for a very late lunch. Okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
He's like, oh, I know this spot with all these food trucks. Let's go there. So we did.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Yeah, you'd think that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
So we get tacos, and we're comparing toppings. We're trying each other's stuff. It's really fun and cute. And I like him. I especially like him because he's asking me very thoughtful questions. Can you give us an example?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
He asked me, what is the weirdest compliment I've ever received?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
I was like, I can't think of anything. He said, well, I have one. He said someone told him that he has eyes that would make a cat jealous. I kind of laughed because I didn't really know what to make of that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
So we laughed that one off and then he goes, all right, well. What is something that you wouldn't normally tell people on a first date?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
So I tell him that I've had some family members might have been in some reenactments of, like, true crime. Their story might have been in some reenactments of true crime. Let's say that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
You said it, not me.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
You know, he was trying to pry some details out of me. I don't give it to him. And I go, what about you? And he says, oh, well, I recently got out of a speeding ticket. By looking like a Jonas brother, which I guess was kind of his like bad boy trying to relate to crime. I was like, oh, OK.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Yeah, I thought it was at least interesting.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
So the final part of our date, we decide to go into a nearby bookstore and we're just kind of perusing the aisles and then... All of a sudden, it's like one of those things, you know, like the door has like a bell attached to it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
I hear the bell ding and I just instinctively look up and there's Mark and he's just sprinting. He's sprinting away.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Oh my gosh. Yes. And he didn't say anything to me.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
I didn't even think of that. But he has my number. And he didn't even... Like, text me to apologize.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Yeah, especially for an impromptu date, yeah.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Yeah, this was like a really big deal to me because this is the first connection I've had since I moved here about a month ago.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Just want to say I think you're overreacting a little bit. I think this is kind of a bit much, given what I mentioned.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Well, I can't tell a lot. I can't really share that. And frankly, Mark shouldn't have told that on the line.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Well, and that's why I thought that was a conversation just between you and me. That's why I didn't say the word cartel. That's why I just said, oh, my family has a criminal background.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
If you think about it, this really is your fault because you were the one who asked me the question, what would I not tell anyone on a first date? So really, it's kind of your fault.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Now that you've heard everything, like, just know if we do want to go on another date, like, yeah, we can't really, like, text the name of locations, but we can, like, do a code. Are you serious? She's joking. If this is true, why are you so casual about it?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
He already outed them. He was the one who said it. I didn't.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
I would be a little bit flattered.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Oh, he doesn't remember. Yeah, okay. I'm not calling him back because he ate my goldfish. My pet.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
Will he even be able to find them? I doubt it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
You don't have to pay for me. I'm financially taken care of already.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Taco Truckstop Mystery
You guys are making light of this, but I'm going to call you later, Mark. We're going to hang out. I'll have a car pick you up.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
My name's Megan, and I grew up in Heartland, Four Corners, Vermont. She was a very close childhood friend. I met her at Harland Elementary School. My memory is that she came to town in third grade and we were very close. It's a very small school.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Oh, yes. Yes, I'd be over pretty often. Typically, it would be me and Heidi and Jason would often be there. Jason was a few years younger and really looked up to his sister a lot and was often present. But yeah, we certainly would be at her house a lot. And we had a good friend that lived right across the street. Can you describe her home? What did it look like?
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
It is a one-story, I believe a Vermont log home, Vermont log cabin with a basement. Heidi had the bedroom in the basement and it was a really large room. It was just filled with family photos everywhere. It was tense. I don't know what I really want to say about her home.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
My answer differs with the lens with which I'm looking at it. So when I was young, I felt a lot of sadness for Heidi because... The things that were important to me as a child, the celebratory things like birthdays and holidays, the things I would get the most excited about were things that I would watch her be excluded from. And that always really puzzled me due to her religion.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Her family was Jehovah's Witnesses. So there would be numerous times throughout our childhood where Heidi would have to be picked up from school and taken away because the school was going to celebrate a birthday or celebrate a holiday event.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And I knew that that always made her very sad that she'd often be crying when she'd have to leave her friends over to wait in the hall for her parents to pick her up. So one of the things that I used to do was buy her secret birthday gifts and take them to her. She really loved like Snickers bars, comic books.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
So I didn't have a lot of money myself, but I'd always make sure that I at least would sneak her cards and candy on holidays and her birthday so that... She would know she was loved because to me, that was part of showing love. I think acknowledging people, making them feel special on days like that. So that always puzzled me.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
After she died, Barry and Linda surprised me by giving me back all the gifts I'd given her. So I think they knew I had done that. I always wondered... if I was unknowingly causing her trouble. But again, that's sort of what I mean by the lens with which I view whether her home was happy or not is different as an adult versus when I was a kid.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
In our generation, you didn't ever talk about what was happening at home. Everything was always perfect and you had to always act like everything was fine and not talk if there were things that weren't fine. That was what was normal. So you never really knew what was going on behind closed doors.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Not at length, but I knew that she would be upset or sad sometimes. And you just didn't really ask. It isn't what was done. If you kind of sense that your friend wasn't happy, you would distract them. Maybe it's like, just let's just go do something. And it's more of an escape distraction tactic, I think, is what we would do.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Yeah, it was a Sunday. And I was at a neighbor's house hanging out. And we got a call from her parents, maybe mid-afternoon, asking if Heidi was with us. And she wasn't. So my friends canvassed our other friends looking forward to see if she was over. So I lived a village away from where Heidi lived. I lived in Heartland, Four Corners. Very important distinction.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
She's Heartland, Three Corners, a mile down the road. So I looked with our other friends in the Four Corners village and she wasn't anywhere to be found. And we reported that back. The next morning, I got on the bus to go to the high school. And one of the stops was her house on the route. So when the bus stopped at her house, I asked the driver in small town. So could you hold on a moment?
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Let me run in and see if she's there. I said she's been missing. And I think in a small town, the driver knew everything. He paused and let me run in the house in the morning to see if they had found her. And they hadn't. And Barry and Linda were at the kitchen table with other people that were there, pretty distraught. So I just left the house, got back on the bus. I didn't know what else to do.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
What else could I do? Early in the afternoon, I was playing tennis. I was a tennis player through all the high school. And I was on the court. playing tennis, just trying to go on as if everything were the same and nothing was. And I'm on the court and out of the corner of my eye, I see a guidance counselor and he's making a beeline right for me. And I looked past him and I saw my parents' car.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Now, that was a sign something was seriously wrong. My parents were dairy farmers and never left the farm. I thought, oh God, and I just knew. It was an incredibly dark and incredibly difficult time.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I'm ready to do that, yeah. She reached out to me two years ago and wanted to share some views that she had and some information that she had gathered and wanted to float something by me and asked me if I had ever had reason to wonder about this individual. And when I saw that message come through, I had
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
a reaction unlike anything I'd ever had before where I literally dropped my phone out of my hands to the floor, like a bad direction in a film. But I was so shocked when I saw the name because I had never told anyone outside of my immediate family of what had happened to me. And here was this name with a, do you think this person could have been involved?
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
There was a shift that I was working at a supermarket in one town away from Heartland. And I was working as a cashier. And it was probably around dinner time in the evening, five or six o'clock shift. And when he came through and went through my line, said hi, chatted me up. Thought nothing of it. Watched him leave through the windows of the grocery store and get in his truck.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And I didn't think anything about it. And I just was on to the next person. I would like to say 9 is when the grocery store closed. It might have been 9 or 10. But at the end of the shift, I went out. And this is a very tiny town. I can say it was Windsor. It was in Windsor. So that's pretty important. So this is a very small town.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
It would be very unusual for there to be vehicles in the parking lot at this grocery store at the end of shift because everyone in the tiny town knew it closed at 9. And I went out and saw that he was still in his truck and he had moved it off to the far end of the parking lot. And I didn't, again, think too much of it. Lights were off. Well, I got in my car and started pulling out.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I noticed that he turned his lights on and started following me out of the lot. And again, not overly concerned by this. He's following me back toward Heartland, which makes sense. And I would occasionally check on my rearview mirror and saw he was still there. But then there is a intersection where I would be turning left and he would be turning right to go to his home.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And I noticed he didn't turn toward his home. He turned and followed me. And I turned left and looked in the mirror, and sure enough, he was still behind me. And I thought, well, that's really odd. So then I started doing the math on that and thought, well, this person has relatives down the street from me. Maybe that's where they're headed.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I went home, and as he went by my driveway, he got into the truck very loudly and sped off. And I sat and I watched to see if he would stop at the relative's house that was down the street from me. And he didn't. He went down to the end of the street and turned right and I could hear the truck just kept going. So he was headed back to his house.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I thought it's very odd that he would follow me home. There were other times that I was followed home from work by the truck and But I never, never could definitively say that I knew that it was him. I didn't see him in the lot when I would leave. But it would again be, it was dark. He was trapped behind me. He was following me. I'd pull into my driveway. I would have gone off.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I'm like, this is so odd. So my bedroom at this time was on the first floor of my parents' farmhouse. And I was on a corner. I had three windows in that bedroom. And kind of a sloping front yard and a dirt road. And it's really hard to...
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
convey to people that didn't grow up in New England how remote and how isolated and how tuned in you are to the sound of your neighbor's cars, to the sounds of the street. There isn't a lot of noise. There isn't much. And it's really important that you understand that because without those details, you'd think...
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
You know, you might doubt the senses, you might doubt, but those auditory senses are very real and something that you don't even realize maybe that you're constantly aware of it, but you do, you just know, you pick those things up. It was in the winter specifically that the stalking took a different turn. So I would be in my room and the lights would be on.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I would always have the shades pulled and I would hear these footfalls crunching through very icy snow, breaking the snow. And there's a very specific sound for that. I just remember the first night this happened, I was reading and I could hear these boots, these footfalls coming toward me. off the dirt road, right up to the house. It was maybe 10 or 11 at night.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And the footfalls came right up to one of my windows where my lights were on, right outside. And I was absolutely petrified. I could barely breathe. I could barely move. I was completely frozen, completely petrified. And I felt like so much time had passed that I started tricking myself that maybe I had imagined the footballs and they weren't really there.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And right around when you think, I must have imagined that. The footfalls, the steps turned around and started leaving and walking back out, scrunching their way out to the road. And I hear the car door and that truck, that same truck zooming off.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
There was very light tapping on the glass. Almost as if it was an enticement to pull the blind. But there was no way in hell that was happening.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Oh, my God. It's absolutely horrifying. Did you ever look out the window? Absolutely not. I was so petrified. I mean, I am learned about myself. I'm I absolutely froze. I could barely it was just I absolutely could not have done that. Nope.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
That's absolutely the state of mind I was in. All the women in town wondered why. Who had killed our friend? Was there going to be another murder? There were strings of murders throughout that area at that time. We all were afraid. And it was apparently more important to protect, but protect the wrong person. That happened to me numerous, numerous times before.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Every morning I'd get up and I'd go out and I'd tell my dad, you know, and my dad just, I don't know what was with, weren't overly concerned. But the boot pattern were Sorrel work boots, which is, again, a very specific pattern. It's a star-shaped pattern, little tiny stars. And I noticed the size of the boot. This was a boot that this person always had on.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
The footprint looked about the same size. I just knew it was this person. And this occurred on and off throughout the winter. And I would never know when it would happen. It scared the hell out of me. My parents didn't want to do anything. They didn't want to go to the police. They didn't want to cause any problems whatsoever.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
They didn't want to approach this person because they felt like this person was in pain and had emotional reasons for behaving in this manner and that I wasn't really in any danger and what was really the harm. What happened next? During this period, I was definitely trying to avoid contact with this person because I had developed a healthy relationship Fear, I suppose.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And was definitely trying to limit interactions with this individual because it was incredibly difficult to act like nothing was going on. There was a reason why I had to reach out to this individual.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I often would babysit for different families around town, like most people my age. And I was babysitting down the street from across from the farmhouse that I lived in. And I was taking care of a young infant. So I waited until the baby was asleep. I put the baby in bed. And I picked up the phone and I reached out and made contact. And I explained the reason for my call. And I made the ask.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And that all seemed fine. I should say he is the person that I was speaking to directly when I called. That's who answered the phone. There was, you know, attempts to act like everything was fine and normal and this was light and bright and easy. And, you know, hey, what's going on? What have you been up to? And here's what I'm doing. And, you know, are you at home?
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And I, again, you know, wasn't thinking. I'm like, well, no, I'm babysitting. And I said the name of the family I was sitting for. Didn't really think too much about it. The conversation started taking this really dark turn, very sexual overtones. All of a sudden, kind of out of nowhere, I didn't see it coming. I didn't expect it. And he said to me,
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
You know, one of the things about you that I've always noticed is you have a mischievous glint in your eye. I was like, why is that? I kind of laughed it off and I'm very uncomfortably. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. You know, I'm just kind of a rascal, I guess, you know, I don't know. And he said, well, you know, I've been growing a beard recently. And I'm like, okay.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
He's like, yeah. He goes, you know, it's really, really soft. And I think I'm going to come over there right now and show you how soft it is. I hung up the phone at that point. I was so disgusted and thought, What is this? I already had great fear of this person. And again, that incredible cold fear just went through me. And I thought, I'm in trouble here. I knew he meant it. I knew he meant it.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
So I'm frantic. I'm like, what am I going to do? I'm alone in this house. There's no one here except me and this sleeping baby. I tried calling my parents to let them know that I have this situation going. And back in the day, my parents were real fond of taking the phone off the hook so that they couldn't have incoming calls coming in that would wake them up. There was no way to reach them.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
911 didn't exist back in those days. I didn't know what to do. I...
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
made a split second decision that i'm not proud of but the baby was sleeping and i thought i need to race over to my parents house and wake them up and have them help me because again i knew i knew i was in trouble i just knew it i left the baby i ran across the street as fast as i could went into my parents uh bedroom i woke them up i told them what was happening uh they didn't
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
do anything they didn't come over um i raced back to the house and i got in and i shut the door and as soon as i shut the door here's that truck racing up that the road i could hear it well before i could see it muffler is very loud High rate of speed. It just came blasting down the road, turned into that house where I was at. And he flung the door open off the truck and hopped out.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And this wasn't a winner, too. And this is important to note. He was standing in a white car. undershirt, those sleeveless undershirts, green workman's pants, those very thin cotton pants, no shoes, no socks. And he came right up to the door, ripped open the screen door and tried to get in. And it was a big, heavy wooden door, but like the top half was glass with panes.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
So I could see him and he could see me. We were right on the other side. It's like he saw me and he started screaming at me. He's like, you fucking let me in this house right now, you goddamn bitch. And I'm just swearing at me. It was like he was a different person. There was a manic anger and a zeal and a mission. The energy with which he arrived on this doorstep. I'll never forget.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Incredibly aggressive. I really thought he was going to break the door and the glass. I was... almost anticipating a shower and blast that was going to be coming at me because I really thought he was just going to go through it to get in. It was a very predatory feel. I had sound like prey for months. And then here it was, right there. And my heart was racing out of my chest.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And he was just looking at me, trying to get in. And I just... The only thing I could think to say is, my dad knows you're here. And he's coming over with his gun. I saw his face...
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
completely change and there was just this look that came over him almost like someone had shaken him awake is the way i would describe it and the whole energy shifted and then there was almost sort of a panic almost on his part where he thought what am i doing how am i here and he just hightailed it and got in the truck and immediately left
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I have no doubt that I would have had physical harm if I hadn't gotten back and locked that door in time. I have no doubt that my mom probably sat there with her arms folded in the living room window trying to see what was happening across the street.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
As far as my dad, I have a memory of being told by my mom that after that night, he called that individual up, and told him that he had better not ever make appearances outside my windows. following me home from work, or showing up anywhere, or my dad was going to take matters into his own hands, which completely sounds like the sort of thing that a man of those days would have said.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And it did stop. That was the last time. I never noticed that I was being followed after that. And the steps outside my window stopped. The visits outside my window stopped. It all stopped after that night, to my knowledge. It's tough. You know, it's a small town. Everybody knows everybody's business. There were reasons why.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I absolutely believe that. One of the things that April and Jason shared with me made me believe that some experiences that they have had with being scared through windows in their home for reactions, there's some behavior I've seen and heard of that's really similar. I absolutely suspect that
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
that at least one of my other friends probably has had some similar experiences, but that's absolutely just an instinct.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
That's really hard to say. Do you ever know what anyone's capable of? I feel I have seen glimpses. of if the right provocation is there, this individual goes to a place in their head or maybe outside of their head where something else takes over. Or yes, I do believe that that could happen. I do.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Because what I've seen with my own eyes and experienced is certainly not the actions of someone incapable There's, I think, a strong streak of violence, of meanness, of cruelty in this person, a real mean streak. And quite frankly, I just think this individual at the very least is a very, very nasty piece of work, almost sadistic with the right opportunity and provocation, desire.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Eight people is an eight. That's a lot. At least that we know or that we're considering. Right. All of them. I don't know what I look at. The ones really close to home, Barbara Agnew. Oh, my gosh. Let me count the ways. And Heidi. With Heidi, I don't feel like that was intended to be the way that the others happened. I feel like there's a way to say it.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I feel like she disobeyed, did something she wasn't supposed to do, made someone incredibly angry. They went and found her. And I think things got out of hand. And I think what they've done to others is what happened. If this person hadn't killed before, I don't think Heidi would have been killed. I think Heidi set off a different motive. I don't necessarily think the intent was to take it there.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
But my guess is... Knowing her personality, the way she would have stood up for herself, the way that would have incited anger for disobeying an order.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
No. She was mouthy, sarcastic, funny, quick. And I maintain no one could have caught her. Whoever caught her knew her. She stopped. Same conversation.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
Because she also knew she had to hurry up and get back. Because she knew what would happen if Barry caught her. Sorry. No, but it's true. Like, she was petrified of her parents. So they were very strict disciplinarians. And she was sneaking out to go for that run. And trying to get back before her dad noticed that she had gone. So, and she wasn't one to go socially chit-chatting with, you know.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
No, she wasn't. maybe overly, I would be more like that. I think I was a little more of that people pleaser. I would probably be much more likely to have chatted up somebody I didn't know than she would have. Shy, kind of more shy and reserved.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
I don't know that for a fact. So I just know what I was told to, because again, I wasn't hanging out with her that weekend. I hadn't seen her since Friday and school. But it was not, it makes sense though. So I knew Linda was working. I think she was working a shift at Howard Johnson's. And because Linda was a, worked at a bank, but she also did cleaning at hotels and,
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
And I know that Aaron had a friend at the house or was playing with the neighbors, but was not in charge of Jason. And Heidi was in charge of Jason. But Barry was on the property out back, like splitting wood or something. But he was there.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
So I don't know that she was babysitting per se, but it would be totally normal, I think, in any day life in that household that she was expected to watch Jason play. Well, Aaron did whatever Aaron wanted to do. And Barry was, you know, out working in the yard, which he would always be out working on the property. Always. So I think that tracks. I don't doubt that story.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
But that's how I remember it as well. I mean, just but again, I wasn't there. So I'm hearing that, you know.
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
just is what the scenario was people like where is she this is what we thought she was doing and she wasn't supposed to go running she supposedly asked Aaron will you watch Jason so I can go run and Aaron said no I don't want to because I'm doing this with my friend and she just left anyway it was again willful they what the family told me about what was happening that day when they were recounting it and that's why I doubt it's I doubt it's wrong what am I saying so I don't know yeah might be wrong
Dark Valley
Chapter 15 | Megan's Story
It shook me to my core. I saw that because... The resemblance is, it absolutely resembles the person that I'm discussing and referencing. But if I were to try to draw or have a police sketch of that individual, that's what the drawing would look like. Music
Dark Valley
Chapter 13 | A Good, Quiet Girl
My name's Megan, and I grew up in Heartland, Four Corners, Vermont. She was a very close childhood friend.
Dark Valley
Chapter 13 | A Good, Quiet Girl
She was an incredibly bright and funny, loyal friend, very quick-witted. She had a real love for animals and sports. She was very athletic, rode bikes and skateboarded and was a runner, as many people know. And she really loved her family, her brothers specifically and sister.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
My heart hurts, Richard. Richard, you make my heart hurt. Why? Why?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That scared me! I'm gonna eat your breakfast!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Bless you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I didn't.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Shut up.
Nobody Should Believe Me
Case Files 16: Mom and Dad
You had said you had thought when an intervention was brought up that it would be like that sitting around the conference table. How naive is that? I mean, that's what they show us on TV when they say it's an intervention, right? I think it's like what we think it is. But I think I would love to know...
Nobody Should Believe Me
Case Files 16: Mom and Dad
in a world where, what would have that solution, what would have been the idealistic version of this, where it was the sit down at the table, what would have happened?
Serialously with Annie Elise
269: The Controversial Case That’s EXPLODING: What Happened to Austin Metcalf
Obviously, this is not about me. I have a 17-year-old son. I live 20 miles south of you. My son's in Frisco every night playing soccer, and we have a lot of friends of friends who knew Austin. So the circles got tight, and this hit really close to home. And I'm just so sorry for you. Can you explain to us at all today how you feel?
Serialously with Annie Elise
269: The Controversial Case That’s EXPLODING: What Happened to Austin Metcalf
It's just got to be so... The word I keep coming back to, Megan, is incomprehensible. How could this happen at a track meet?
Serialously with Annie Elise
269: The Controversial Case That’s EXPLODING: What Happened to Austin Metcalf
Hunter, I know you were there. Thank you, Megan. Take your time.
Still My Baby
Welcome to the World, Mike Mike
And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Still My Baby
Welcome to the World, Mike Mike
Hi, I'm Megan, and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today.
Still My Baby
Welcome to the World, Mike Mike
Hi, I'm Megan, and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today.
Still My Baby
Welcome to the World, Mike Mike
And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Hear new episodes each week ad-free on Amazon Music. You can also ask Alexa, Alexa, play Confessions of a Female Founder with Megan on Amazon Music. And she will.
The Charlie Kirk Show
The Hand of God: Looking Back on a Magical Year
Megan, I want to get your analysis here of the state of the race. The debate is a distant memory. It's only like nine or ten days ago. Where do you think things stand right now? And has Kamala Harris successfully introduced herself to the American people?
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
They're not even really in a place to afford the house that they own with the money that they're making. And we're starting to get this feeling that they're expecting us to take care of them at some point or to do something to help them. And without tapping into our own retirement or savings for our children's college and things like that, we're just really not in that type of space.
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
And so my question is, Is it too late for them to start putting together a retirement plan? What are some options for them? Or how best, really, what kind of boundaries do we need to set as a young family in helping out that other generation in retirement?
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
Yes. Every single day. And he's one of these people. He loves to work. So I think he always will. And at one point, if he can, it's a white, but you can't always, you don't always have that as an option.
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
So he's, I want to say he's making around right at about a hundred thousand dollars total. Cause he does have social security coming in as well. Um, but around a hundred thousand dollars and, and, but my mom has never worked. And so the question kind of is if, and when one of them passes before the other, what are they going to do?
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
And that's where they're turning to us is this younger generation and asking us that question. Um, And I don't really know what to say. You know, the Bible teaches us to honor our father and mother, but how does that translate into something like this?
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
And that's what we've been worried about. And we want to see them do well. And we've had some of these initial conversations saying, we don't have that bandwidth. Okay, what do they say? So I think it may be just some of their own nervousness coming in. They kind of laugh it off a little bit and kind of joke saying, and this has been said by my mom, like,
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
well, I'll just move in with you guys and help take care of your children. And that's not really the plan that we want.
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
Okay, so I have a question. And just to paint a small picture, my husband and I, we've been married for seven years. We have no debt other than the mortgage on our house. And so we're very thankful and have worked very hard for that. We've got two young kids, able to establish an emergency fund and retirement accounts and college savings for them.
The Ramsey Show
Learn the Power of the Magical Word, “NO”
But with all of that said, my parents are really not on a same financial path as we are. My dad is in his 80s now and still works full time. My mom does not work and she hasn't worked before. But just recently, they've been bringing up to us, kind of my husband and I, that they don't know what they're going to do for retirement. They have no retirement savings, very little in a savings account.
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
Well, mostly there are multiple properties involved as well as a business that my father-in-law owns. And we have no idea because we're not in that specific field what we would need to do in the event of, you know, potentially selling that or his passing. So, yeah, that's our major concern.
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
So my husband has brought them up. He is the oldest and we have a young family. So he's kind of more thinking about the future for those reasons. And they've also made it very clear that they do not want me involved in the conversations. Why? So that throws another added bonus.
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
Barely. I mean, we're not best friends, but it's not, you know, adversarial.
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
Three properties, two are rentals, one is a main home in which they live in, and the total is about $2.5 million. Okay, great.
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
Hi. So excited to talk to you today. I listen every day, so this is kind of surreal. Oh, thank you. I'm looking for some advice on bringing up estate planning with my multimillionaire in-laws who are unwilling to have a conversation with my husband and I, but state that he and his brother will both be taken care of when they pass.
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
How do we inquire so we know where the assets are in the event of long-term care or their passing?
The Ramsey Show
If You Want to Build Wealth, Stop Acting Like Everyone Else
Yeah, essentially. Yeah, it's a 50-50. You know, it's just my husband and his brother, and he said, you know, you're taken care of.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Well, I am in love with my best friend of about 17 years, and I need to figure out how to let this go. This is not working for me at all.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
You know, I think that that is the biggest part that I'm struggling with. We met a long time ago. I've always been interested in him, and he has been vocal about the fact that he does not feel the same way. It wasn't a big deal or anything. you know, the longest time. I just kind of let it go. He had his relationships. I had mine, whatever. But he opened a business a couple of years ago.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
And I thought that it would be a great idea to just push my way right in there. They weren't hiring. They don't have any other employees. And I was just like, I'm going to work here. And they eventually were just like, okay, fine. So now I work there. And since that,
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
happened our relationship has just become so much closer so we see each other all the time we talk all the time like if if it's slow at work we could sit there for five hours and just be chatting but nothing has changed on his end in terms of like yeah you're my friend and i think you're cool and i like talking to you but i'm not looking for anything else no no definitely not and i'm not um i'm not delusional to that um
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
But and I feel like it's not even the point that he doesn't want to be with me. That's the issue is that I won't let it go. So he he uses me a lot as like his emotional support.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Well, I guess I shouldn't. I mean, sometimes I do actually feel that way.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
But yeah. I try to put up boundaries with him more than once. Like what? Don't talk to me about girl problems that you're having. I can be your friend and support you in other things, but I don't want our conversations to always focus on all of the girls that are surrounding you all the time. But then when I put up that boundary and he follows it, we don't talk probably at all.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
And I mean, he has told me, he's like, you, I'm really sorry, but like, you give good advice and you're a girl and you listen. So that's why he's like,
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Right. And so I like, I'm not sure, should I, do I remove myself from the environment?
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, I definitely could get a different job. It's not the most convenient job for me, but I do enjoy it.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I guess I wouldn't necessarily be losing... really much of any.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yes. And I, I just, I, maybe I, maybe I can't find the ladder. I understand that in some aspects, I feel like I'm being kind of stubborn about it because for some reason in my brain, I keep thinking that like, if I do this or if I, and he's not asking me to do these things.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
And I guess I just wonder if keeping the friendship... You're not friends.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yes, I guess that is very true. I guess we don't really move in a way that I would with any of my other friends, whether they're male or female, I guess.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I guess that that one's a little hard to swallow.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
So then I guess I'm not really his friend either.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Right. Oh, that sucks. I mean, I did want to talk to you for this specific reason. If I talk to my friends about it, you know, they're very gentle with me about it, even though they all also agree that I need to just get out of there and forget about it.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Right. I guess the sooner that I actually let that sink in, the better, um, When I had originally ran in, it was kind of like there was a lot of explosions going on in the relationship. And now it's kind of like settled down to where... Why explosions?
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
No, we ended up having a bit of an argument because there was a situation where I was kind of stranded somewhere. And... I was hoping that he would let me chill in his house for a little while or something before I could go home. He suggested that I contact one of our customers where we work and go stay with them instead. So I did, but I was like, this is so weird.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Why am I going to stay with strangers when you are right there?
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Right. Well, he, he, um, he explained to me that, um, pretty much. And, uh, the conversation just kind of went on from there and he, um, ended up, uh, telling me that he feels like I have essentially had like a force field around him for the last 17 years and that he feels like that makes it so like I push other people away from him and that,
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
we could never be together, that we would only last three days. Like it was a pretty intense blow up. So after that, I did try to like change my thinking and be like, okay, this is obviously not working. So then we had a conversation and I told him that I think that we should like take a little break from like talking all the time and hanging out. And now since we did that,
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Now we just like don't talk or hang out at all. And I guess that that is good. It is helping.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah, I didn't really plan that out very well. Yeah.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, I can definitely see where and why he would put that boundary.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah, because I feel like in the long run, it really has like prohibited me from being in, you know,
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, even the last couple of guys that I have dated would tell me like, why are you even here with me? Why don't you go be with this guy?
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I guess that's a very valuable thing that I will take away from this, that he didn't ask me to do it, but I'm doing it to myself.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
And it definitely is wasted. It has been wasted the entire time.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, when you put it that way, I should be pretty frustrated with being in this for so long.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I feel like if I, but I think that this is also, you know, just going back to The whole issue is like, I've considered quitting multiple times, but then I'm like, well, I don't want to disappoint him. I don't want to put... He doesn't care.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
You're not the first person that's told me that, Nick.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I'm going to hear you saying that in my head over and over. You get to listen.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, it is sinking in. I definitely hear it. I obviously am just having trouble applying it, but I guess I just have to do it and stop telling myself that there's a hundred reasons not to. When there's one good reason to stop, and that is to just save myself from doing this for another 17 years.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I think that I've had that problem my whole life, just in general, where I'm investing everywhere else. I'm investing my thoughts everywhere else.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I certainly have had a lot of therapy. It doesn't seem to be working.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Not this situation as it is right now. I mean, I feel like I have, I've talked to everyone to death about it, you know, just in general over time.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Like, I mean, over the course of time, as things have come up, like maybe, I don't know, when I started working here or.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
So like, I guess I have to change my mindset to like, no, this is something that you have to do and you need to do whether you want to do it or not.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I guess that might make it a little bit easier to handle.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I think I definitely needed the tough love. That is exactly what I needed to hear from you for, for sure. Because, I mean, I know these things in my head, but it's different when somebody who is not involved at all can see it in a matter of 20 minutes.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
It is. Even two and a half would be too big.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Like, I feel like I really need to quit working there. Saying for 100% that I'm going to is really difficult.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
And I don't even necessarily need the job. It's like, it's just a... This is a part-time job? Yeah, it's not any of my main jobs.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, it's always nice to have money. You know, I always need money. But it's not like if I woke up tomorrow and this job was not there.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
And it's not even close to me. I have to travel like an hour away to get there.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah, that's been a struggle for a long time.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah, I definitely don't. I'm very aware that I don't invest nearly as much into myself as I do in trying to fix everything else around me instead.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah, I think that's a good analogy. The pool is really working for us here today.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I think that they would all appreciate that.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I mean, everybody tells me that that's what I need to do. I'm being stubborn. by taking my time on making that decision.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah. Getting the guts to work on them, I think is the tricky part. I guess I am probably a little scared about what I would find out about myself.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yeah, because facing my self-worth over whether men want me or not has not been working out at all.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
I'm hoping that this will be a good push to begin.
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E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
You know, I just might, you know, do a good job on this just so that you can tell me I'm not pathetic.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Yes, they are. I agree. I'm going to try to make myself proud in this situation here.
The Viall Files
E931 Ask Nick - Should I Take Him Back?
Thank you for the tough love. That's exactly what I needed. I appreciate it.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Hi, my name is Sylvia. I'm 43 years old and I wanted to ask how I can get over my insecurities or jealousy with my husband.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
see that's that's like the main issue is there's not really anything that it's just it's me i'm i'm insecure i'm jealous of other women of how they look i'm afraid like when like we stop i stop myself when we're gonna go places um because i'm i got constantly thinking like who's gonna be there what are they gonna be wearing are they gonna be attractive women is he gonna think about them later like it's just my mind okay does not stop
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
So I would say it's probably a combination of both. When I was a teenager, my first boyfriend, you know, there was a lot of jealousy on both parts. Then my first marriage, when I was in my 20s, He would tell me things like, oh, men think like this and men think like that.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
And he would kind of put things in my mind about how men think when they look at other women or how men act or what men are thinking in terms of like, if a friend of mine came over, he would make comments about them, right? So now fast forwarding to my husband, he doesn't really. So in the beginning, I was extremely jealous and I would make it known.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But I, you know, as I've gotten older, I suppressed it a lot. I don't, I don't say anything to him. Like, I never express jealousy. Like, he'll be like, oh, you know, I want to go, I want to go over here. And even though inside me, I'm like, I don't want him to go because I'm afraid he'd leave somebody or I'm afraid. So what is he doing?
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Well, he won't do it. So for example, like he'll be like, oh, I want to go to a car show. And then he'll be like, do you want to come? And he'll always invite me. And I'll be like,
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
uh no that's okay but you can go like just like that you can go and then the time will come or the day will come i'll be like are you gonna go to the car show like me i changed my mind so he doesn't do anything like i'll be honest with you he's a good guy you know and he does know about my insecurities because we've been together for like 15 years now so in the beginning i was i was very mature about everything but now you know he knows that i'm way more laid back i let you know i don't
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
say anything but it's like in here so for example I'll just give you a recent example we went to a Halloween event and we went with two other people that I don't know and they were friends of a friend and In my mind, I'm thinking, like, you know, does he find this woman attractive? You know, what is he thinking? Like, this is all in my mind.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
When we jump in the car to head back home, we just start talking because it was an hour drive home. And we just start talking. We're just, you know, talking shit. And then I'm like, what did you think of the girls that were there? And I named them by their names. And he was like, I mean... they were attractive. And so that right away started making me feel some type of way.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
And then I'm like, well, well, what did you find attractive about them? Like, just, just like talking though, you know, he wasn't picking up because I'm really good at kind of like, I don't want to say manipulating, but I guess it was manipulating the situation to make him feel like it was okay to talk to me about this. And so then he's like, oh, well, to be honest, she had a nice butt.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
So then that was a stab in my heart. Okay. It was literally a stab. And I'm like, oh, we, you know, Kiki laughed a little bit. And then on to the next subject. When we got home, he was like, my favorite part of tonight was in the car back home with you. All the talking that we did, it was just like, it was my favorite part of the night. And I'm like, oh, you know, whatever. Nothing.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But then it just kind of stood in my head. Then I'm obsessing about this girl. I'm looking her up. I'm trying to see what does she look like normally? It's just so unhealthy. But he has no idea because I don't act like that in front of him. I'm very nonchalant about it. I don't want him to feel like he's doing anything wrong because he's not. It doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't really do anything.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
This is me. This is my internal whatever. And let me tell you, I've I've tried to listen to podcasts. I've tried meditation. I've tried everything. This in particular part of me doesn't grow. Like I can't evolve. I can't grow from just being the 16-year-old me. with this insecurity, you know, and he'll sometimes say things to me that I feel like he's trying to make me feel better.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But in turn, I switch around in my head, like he'll be like, oh, you know, you were the most, you're always like the most beautiful girl in the room and, you know, things like that, you know, he'll say. And then I'll start thinking like, oh, so he is looking at other women and he is judging, you know, like it's just so bad. Yeah. And I just hate, I hate it. I hate it. I hate feeling like that.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
I get hurt from it. Like, I feel like, like jabs in my heart and my stomach.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
No, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. I mean, there was nothing like, No, I'm not bored. It's not because this has been going on since the beginning. I just have changed how I am, how I process that and how I deal with it. Before I used to just be like, oh, oh, you were looking at her. I saw you looking at her and oh, I saw your eyes turn that way or whatever the case may be. I would confront him.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Now I just kind of be like, I mean, there's going to be attractive people where we go. Like I can't.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But that's a different perspective that I've never thought about.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Yeah. And not to mention the fact that he's younger than me doesn't help. How much younger? He's six years younger.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But, It's just, I don't, I don't know. I just, I just, I hear you talking to other people and I'm like, oh my God, that's great advice. You know, my God, that's, you know, that's something I would have said to my friends. And then I'm like, maybe he can, But I know it's like, it's like more in here, like more in my head than anything.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But like, I, I also, I want to know like what he's thinking and you know, it, it, it hurts. And I don't, I don't, I don't, but, but, but I do.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But the reason why I feel like I don't do anything about it is because I feel like I still wonder and I still want to know. So even though I didn't do anything about it, I still like, kind of, like I said, I suppress my feelings and just kind of, okay, whatever it is. This is how I feel and that is what it is. But like, for example, like I won't bring...
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
you know, people to my house, like females. I won't bring female friends over when he's around. And sometimes he'll be like, oh, your friend's coming? Great. I'm going to leave. I'm going to go to my cousin's house or I'm going to go, you know, over here.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
And I just, I don't know if he does it because he senses how I am or if it's just because he thinks this is an opportunity to get the hell out and go hang out with his cousin and his friends. But I don't know. And I've talked to therapists, actually. I have. I've seen several.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
and i don't know why but that's no that's what i'm gonna say it's like i don't know why but i don't ever bring this up this is not something that i it's like i'm ashamed i'm embarrassed i don't i don't want to to talk about it with you know somebody and and yeah i don't know like like you know it's really up to you how much energy and time you want to keep putting into this yeah you're right um
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Yeah. So, so, so asking him is not like, I shouldn't be asking him, right? I shouldn't be like, so what did you think? Well, I mean, I don't know.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
I mean... You may be right. I mean, I don't sit there and be like, oh, my God, this guy is so fine.
The Viall Files
E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But that that's that's where I feel like, well, like it's different because men are wired differently. So men might.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Right. No, and, like, we used to have fun when we were a little younger. We used to play those little games, like, oh, you know, drive down Lake Shore Drive and be like, oh, look at that, look at that, whatever. But then, like, I don't know if it was maybe too much for me, or I don't know, but... And I've been really good about everything.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
But I think this last, like this Halloween thing that happened kind of brought everything back up. And then we were throwing a party. And I was like, oh, you know, we're throwing a party. And then I started to overthink it. Like, what are these bitches going to be wearing? And like, I just start like overthinking it. And then I'm just like, you know what it is? It's out of my hands.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
It's a Halloween party. They can wear whatever the fuck they want. I don't know, you know, what else to do or, you know, and everything was fine. Like nothing.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Yeah. We, yeah, no. And I think, I think we have a good relationship. You know, we, we do things probably that, you know, may seem boring to other people. Like, You know, we watch Love Island or we'll watch like shows together. That's great.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
No. Well, I feel like, I mean, that's true, but you know, we, we do, we do, we talk a lot. I think we're now, now we are more connected than we've ever been as far as like in our relationship where, where I think at our peak right now, we've been really good. We, you know, we do fight and break or whatever, like everybody, but nothing crazy.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Like I would consider to be my, I think I'm a lucky person. I know that it's rough out there. So I feel like I'm a lucky girl to have, you know, him. And I feel like we do have a great relationship. I, there's no complaints, you know, intimately, not nothing. Like we make sure that we make time for each other. We go out on dates. We, you know, no, we, That is true. I can't complain about that.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
Like I said, it's just in my head. I'm ruining it for us. He doesn't even know it because I don't bring it to him. Maybe you should.
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E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays
No, I've never done that. And even, and I don't know why, like maybe during therapy, I just, I don't, I don't know why I never brought it up. I just.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I like that plan a lot. Because you're right, I do care. And that's just a joke to say to myself, I don't care because it's But I like caring is setting a boundary with.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Has this ever happened before where people reach out about their partner and they tell them and then their partner is like, no, you can't do that?
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
She'd love you for saying that. She's like, maybe you should go on, and I want to know what he's got to say. I'm like, he's not going to just side with me because I'm the caller.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
We've talked a lot about this this morning. Honestly, I think she's most upset that she kept saying, I'm so sad that I took this opportunity away from you. I know how much you love this podcast. And like, I honestly think she felt guilty more than anything.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I told her to disconnect Bluetooth and that you guys said that I could have this alternative question that she's like, you could talk about whatever you want to talk about. I'm like, don't say that if you don't mean it.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I mean, I have eyes and so does everyone else. So she asked me after she officially told me and it was like, she asked me if it was obvious. I'm like, yes, this is painful, but she's best friends also with his wife. So that was what everyone was like hanging their hat on was like, well, she would never do that to his wife. She would never do that to his wife.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Yes. She works from home. And she works like a financial company and talks on the phone about like advising people about retirement.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
She just scrolls. And I've actually like, since I'm off work, it's just hard to be, I'm not weight bearing for two months, but I'm like on crutches.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
And it's just like depressing to get on social media and see people doing fun things and blah, blah, blah and comparing myself to whatever. So I just got off and I started choosing to do other things because I kind of felt myself going down this like not depressive thing, but just like dark place.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
And so then we pulled into Target one night and she was mad because I said, I want to talk to you about something. And she thought the Target parking lot was not the place to talk about this. Who cares where you're talking about it? I said, I think like being on social media has been really good for me. Like, and she's just like, I love that for you, but I don't see what that would do for me.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
And like, I just feel like we could focus more on like each other. Like we're hanging out and you're like just scrolling. And I'm like, I don't know. So that ended up being a fight. But then yesterday after that, I heard back from you guys and said, yep, we're doing this.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
So I told her, I was like, I don't want them to ask me if I told you and have me say, no, I didn't tell you because we're literally going to be in the same house. I'm on crutches. I'm not going to go find a spot, Nick. And she was like, oh my gosh, that's so awesome. Blah, blah, blah. And then last night she was like kind of angry cleaning. I could tell. And I'm like, are you okay?
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
And she's like, no, I thought about it more. I'm really annoyed about the podcast and just I had her to laugh because I kept saying, you sound like Lisa Barlow talking about the podcast.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
you've crushed it I think we could do this like if you because I think you can I mean if you want to talk about this I think you can teach me like a lot be on her side like
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Um, I don't, she says it's not, but she's kind of cut me off since she told me because I was way less than impressed.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Um, I had surgery on my ankle at the end of October. So actually I'm off work until like the beginning of January and thank God for that because it was getting bad for a while.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think my delivery, I think could, no one's ever told me that actually. And I go to therapy. So I love that you told me that.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Nick, that's exactly what she was hoping you were going to say. Like, to the T. She was like, he's going to be like, yeah, she deserves a break. She deserves to let her brain rot for a little while.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
We kind of have a trio of friends and, um, The other friend doesn't know, but her grandma just died, the trio, the other trio. And we ended up going to her funeral together. And it was a very superficial conversation the whole time. And I mean, she was a very, very good friend until this all happened. And then it literally all came crashing down.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
thanks for setting me up for success no problem uh was this helpful yes you're amazing all right uh so thank you so much what are we gonna do with your friend um focus on what she's doing and the type of person she wants to be and not how she's affecting me, how she's affecting other people, I guess, in it.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
That's a good tool. I like that. We're going to therapy tonight. This is going to be the head topic. So I appreciate it.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
We went, we had one really good serious conversation about this. And I said, She cut me off because I was less than impressed, but then everyone else.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I think she thought I was just ride or die and would always be there.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I said that I was so hurt. I felt like my workplace was affected. I felt like she chose him over our friendship because She left me alone at a bar in a really sketchy area the night that I found out she was like, I'm leaving with him. And they just left. So I've always been very hurt by that. Sorry, I feel like I'm so nervous. I'm not expressing myself well.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
It's hard, too, because this is not what I was going to talk about.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Well, I was going to talk about my wife's addiction to social media, but then I was like, what if he asks me if I've told her I'm coming on here? And she works from home, so she's just upstairs. So she might be on lunch break at any moment. And I told her, I was like, I'm going to go on Nick's podcast.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Like, if you were going to go on the toast, you would totally, like, I would let you go on the toast, whatever you want to talk to them about. Like, you know, that's my thing.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
She does, and I try to get her to listen to Nick all the time. Tell us it's a good show.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
My tagline on the subject, which she was so offended by, and I probably shouldn't have told her the subject line. I'm like, I wonder if all the other callers tell. She actually feels really bad about this, and I think she wouldn't care if we actually did talk about this, because I think I'm more natural.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
That's how she feels. And I'm like, is that, am I the asshole for that? Like, Because I said the tagline was, is she rotting her brain? Because she scrolls on social media constantly with housewives arguing in the background. And I'm trying to read and I'm just like.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
And I feel like I... mostly focused on probably my feelings themselves, but I remember one specific line. She said, are you judging me? I said, I'm just kind of judging you for being like a shady person when you're around him.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I mean, there's a lot of kids involved, lots of family vacations taken together. It's
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
yeah it's terrible so yeah I think you need to draw a hard line in the sand and I don't think you should keep her secret either and I think you should make that very clear to her that was kind of the hardest thing about it was people were coming up to me because they knew we were best friends and they'd be they actually saw them leaving in the parking lot together and they'd come up to me and I would just worry myself so much about it stress out like keeping this secret and finally like with our serious conversation I was like I can't
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
keep your secret anymore. And she didn't like that. And then we don't really talk anymore. So that's kind of, this was a big conversation. Like, but I've honestly listened to your podcast so much and have taken, I mean, like I just quit caring, I guess. And I'm just like, if she doesn't care, I'm not going to care. So I don't know.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
I mean, that friendship. Cause I mean, we were tight. We were thick as thieves.
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E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Good. My name's Megan. I'm 29 years old and I can't go over my best friend having an affair with our boss.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
Right. I said... Um, if you're not going to care, I'm not going to care. And you're right. That was about my feelings. I remembered it after you.
The Viall Files
E863 Ask Nick - My Best Friend’s Affair
No, I met them in nursing school. All right.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah, that's essentially what I'm thinking too. If it's going to happen, we can at least plan for it and have some sort of idea of what to do.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Good. Hi, I'm Megan. I'm 34 and I'm afraid a conspiracy theorist is going to ruin my sister's wedding.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah. That sounds good. That's what we'll do.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So the conspiracy theorist is my husband's grandfather. So this is my husband's sister. She's getting married to her partner of 10 plus years later this month.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yes, it's the bride's grandfather, yes.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
She wanted our advice on whether to uninvite him because they've already RSVP'd, yes.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So a little bit of background, like throughout COVID in the last like several years, he's really just gone like deep into the rabbit hole of like dark political conspiracy theories. And we're not talking like tinfoil hats or like the pandas aren't real, but like he spends all day, all night, like online with this extremist misinformation cult, I guess you could say.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And so like for the first few years, he wasn't like so far gone that you couldn't have a regular conversation with, And we only really see them like once or twice a year around the holidays. So we would just kind of deal with it and try to redirect the conversations.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Over time, my in-laws would tell us stories about them getting into like screaming matches with them for like hours when nobody else was there. We kind of like brushed it off. We thought it like was somewhat of an exaggeration, but yeah.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
um christmas of 2023 we went over for dinner grandpa was back in the room um that he stays in all day all night um he didn't come out until dinner and something got said that triggered him to start yelling about how he's a reborn alien the aliens are in charge the whole um
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
you know, thing about, um, children being trafficked and exploited so that their adrenaline could be taken from them and pumped into celebrities faces to stay young. Um, so it's really like extreme, um, conspiracy theory, a lot of antisemitic conspiracies.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And so, you know, uh, really just don't want there to be like a scene at the wedding because it's kind of gotten to the point where he can't have like a regular conversation with him anymore. Yeah.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
All of that. It's just so dark. It's sad because there's really no talking sense into anyone. Like they won't even hear it.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And I, you know, I think she's, she's torn because she doesn't want to look back and know that one of her living grandparents, like wasn't at her wedding, wasn't in,
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
photos but yeah there's a major conceit a concern about causing a scene embarrassing them and you know really like just the fact that their values and belief systems are like so 180 opposite that i just feel like it's a recipe for disaster and i think she should set some boundaries belief systems there's like hey we voted for this guy and you voted for that guy and let's just you know you know who gives a fuck today grandpa's giving like
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Yeah, and I think that that's my concern is I don't think there's a way that a scene would not be created at this point, given how far gone he is.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
No, he's just out on his own island. And it's really pretty sad because he's kind of alienated himself and their grandmother from everyone because he's done this with every different side of the family at this point. That's crazy. I mean, it is crazy. And it's also just so sad because my husband is... like one of the calmest, most stoic people you've ever met.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
And last Christmas, when this blow up happened, like he even lost it. We left and we did not come back for the rest of the holiday gathering. And so.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So I think that's the sad part is, yeah, I think she still wants Grandma to come. And I think Grandma could come alone, but we just don't want to necessarily make her feel, you know, some type of way by... Is there... Chris Lee excluding.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
He tried. Yeah. He tried. Um, and was told to fuck off.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So, I mean, that to me in itself is the answer that we need.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I don't, yeah, no, I don't know. I don't think so either. But I guess, too, like, you know, my husband doesn't want him to come. His dad does not want him to come, but you know, it's her choice. So like, if she, for whatever reason did decide to let him come and he does cause a scene, like, how do you think that should be handled? Well, who should be responsible for removing him? Probably his dad.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I personally don't know. I think she's just so empathetic and she's always trying to like give people so many chances. And again, just her other grandmother is ill and not able to come. Her other grandfather is not alive. So I think she's just trying to keep like what she can in terms of like that family unit there.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
Probably like 150 people. Okay. It's big enough.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
So her future wife's mom is the pastor and, marrying them. And I don't think a lot of her future wife's family is aware of grandpa and his behavior.
The Viall Files
E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?
I think that probably it would end up being me that would, you know, sort of be one of these people because my husband is a bridesmaid for his sister. So he's, he'll be preoccupied. Everyone in the immediate family would be preoccupied.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
So I'm trying to figure out how to forgive an absentee father after four plus years.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
So, short backstory of my life. My parents divorced whenever I was a year old. My father was pretty much in and out of my life my entire life. It was to the point to where I didn't even really want to spend time with him. So my mom kind of left that to my discretion. If I didn't want to see him, obviously she could not make me. Even as I got older, he didn't really
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
much make an effort to see me or talk to me or anything. Fast forward to my adult life. I even tried to take him out for Father's Day one year and he told me no. I ended up marrying a military man. So anyone knows about military relationships, they do move very fast. So I met my now husband in 2020. We got married after probably about five or six months of dating.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
I had not heard from my father any that year we moved. out of state across the country. And I don't even think my father knew that I moved. And then a year after us being there, I got pregnant with our son. He is now two and a half years old. After I got pregnant, I ended up blocking... My father and his wife have a joint Facebook account. I blocked that Facebook account because...
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
In my mind, I was like, if he did not make an effort for my whole life, I didn't really want him to know that I was starting a family of my own. I kind of feel like that's a privilege. So fast forward the whole three years we were in that state, did not obviously hear anything from him. We've now been in our current state for a year now.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And probably about two months ago, my aunt, so his sister, found me on Facebook, sent me a friend request. At first, I declined it because I have not spoken to her since I was probably about 16 years old. I gave her a chance to reach out to me. She never did. So I ended up messaging her. We kind of conversed for a day or two. She kind of gave the same excuse as the, you know, life gets in the way.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Always wondered about you, you know, never did anything about it. And then she asked me, could she give my father my phone number? I hesitated, but Gave it to him. He called me like a couple of days later. He gave a lot of excuses with his phone call, kind of the same way that she did, saying life gets in the way. Always wondered about you. I know where you were living for three years.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
I know that you're married and I know that you have a son. And I found out that he actually had pictures on his phone. of me while I was pregnant and of my son, which was a hard pill to swallow because I felt very violated. I had blocked his Facebook page for a reason, you know, and he kind of kept saying how he came very close to calling my job to reach out to me. And obviously he never did it.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Like I said, the phone call was filled with just a bunch of excuses. So now I'm in the state of Do I try to work with him to forgive him or do I protect my current family that I have now? Because now we just found out that I'm pregnant with our second kid. And do I let him kind of start fresh in a way or do I protect my family?
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
So, like I said, obviously, he wasn't really a father to me my whole life. And I feel like knowing my son and my future kid is a privilege. I have the fear of him doing the same thing that he did to my kids that he did to me.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Because the way I see it, my son is in no shortcomings of love. He has us, he has my mom, and he has my in-laws.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Yes. So I feel like I also have a negative light for my dad, aside from him being very absent. The last time I saw him in person, I had a different job. I was like sexually harassed at work and I kind of like briefly told him about it and he laughed. And in my mind, I was like, I'm your only child. And on top of that, I am a female.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And for me to tell you about that and you laugh, I feel like that just painted him in a different light. So I don't know if I'm holding onto that as well.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And I did tell him that during our very long awkward phone call. I told him that since I am now a parent, I surely hope that nothing ever comes between me and my son to where I don't talk to him for several years. And in my mind, I cannot fathom anything that would keep me from wanting to speak to my son and my future child. And he was like, well, you know, it's not really like that.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And I was like, but it is like that. If you say you wanted to write me a letter and mail it to me or you wanted to call my job. but you didn't do these things. How do I know you're not just saying that in the moment? And like I said, he just kept saying, well, it's not like that. And then I think I have been trying little by little to allow him to certain things.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
So he did ask for our address to send my son Christmas presents and he did. But he keeps bringing up, it's been a few weeks since I've talked to him, but he keeps bringing up Like, you need to let me know when I can come visit you guys. And I'm like, whoa, pump the brakes a little bit. This does not need to be a huge thing of you're also seeing me for the first time in five years at this point.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And you're meeting my husband and you're meeting my son. That is just a lot all at once. And I don't think that he understands that.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And I don't think that we haven't gotten too much into it, but I've already talked to my husband about it and my mom. My mom's very much, she never bad mouthed my dad when she very much could have. She always left it to me to make my own opinion of him. But I've talked to my husband about it and I've told him, because we live probably about six hours from where he lives.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
And my mom's probably about the same distance, but my mom comes up pretty frequently to come help me out with my son whenever my husband is gone. But I've told my husband that I want it to be like two separate trips. I would like for him to come up and meet my husband one day and my husband can kind of assess the situation. And then another time, maybe we can meet halfway and him meet my son.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
But that just feels it's already a kind of not a guilty feeling, but it is kind of hard to share your kid with people and then to have to reintroduce or introduce someone completely into your child's life. I think that's just a scary thought for me because obviously my son is, my son is at the age now to where whenever I mentioned Nan or grandma or Gramps, he knows who I'm talking about, you know?
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
I just don't know how to move forward from this. Like, how do I begin to get, I guess, the forgiveness? My mom, I talked to her about it. She was like, well, I was very mad at your dad for a long time until I went to like a church meeting and the lady spoke on forgiveness. And she was like, after I left that meeting, like a huge weights.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
felt like lifted off of me because I realized that I needed to forgive your dad. And I don't know what it's going to take for me to get to that point. I don't even know how to begin to get to that point because I don't know. I just have a lot of questions.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Right. And it's even harder because my mom assumed that he would be a great dad because his dad was the same way that he is. So when my parents were married, my mom always saw the hurt from him and his sister because their dad didn't know how to be a dad. So it was kind of like an apple doesn't fall far from the tree situation. So he ended up being just like his dad. And my dad actually said that.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
I think I have a lot more in common with him than I would like to think that I did. And I was like, yeah.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Right. I think for the last five years, whenever someone brings it up to me, I'm always quick to be like, I don't care about it. But then it's like whenever I get to thinking about it or something triggers me, like you said, that's when I'm kind of like, well, maybe it is affecting me a little bit more than I think it would. And I think I only have felt this way since becoming a mom.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Because like I said, in my mind, I just can't fathom the thought of never having a relationship with my kids. I don't care what happens. And God forbid anything ever does happen. I'm sure I'm going to piss them off several times in their life. But in my mind, nothing will stop me from trying with my kids.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
So how, how long or how do you think that it worked best for her to realize how to forgive her dad? What, what do you think that she had to realize in order to forgive her dad? Just accepting?
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Right. And my in-laws kind of say the same thing. My father-in-law doesn't have a relationship with his sister, not for lack of trying. He's left the door open for her many times, but she continually fucks up. And my father-in-law just kind of says, well, all you can really do is give him the opportunity. If he fucks up again, cut him out.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
I agree. I agree. I think it's going to just take some time little by little. Yeah.
The Viall Files
E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage
Yeah, I didn't think about it that way. And I don't think anyone else has told me that. But yeah, that makes sense.
This American Life
851: Try a Little Tenderness
And I just remember she was screaming because I said, OK, May, you got to calm down so you can still get ready and get out the door. And she was just screaming that the only way she could calm down was if she punched her sister in the face.
This American Life
851: Try a Little Tenderness
And I said, well, that's not an option, so can you think of some other way to calm down? And then I had to get ready, so I just left, and she was still kind of making quite a bit of noise. And then when I came back, kind of miraculously, the tears had dried. She was smiling. Johanna was smiling.
Uinta Triangle
The Tyranny of Distance
Hi, I'm Megan, and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today.
Uinta Triangle
The Tyranny of Distance
And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. You can also ask Alexa, Alexa, play Confessions of a Female Founder with Megan on Amazon Music. And she will.