Brittany Luce
Appearances
Consider This from NPR
Over a dozen lawsuits to stop DOGE data access are betting on a 1974 law
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce, and I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Consider This from NPR
Drowning in tariffs, American businesses try to stay afloat
Hey there, I'm Brittany Luce, and I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Consider This from NPR
Trump takes aim at trade deficits. Are they actually bad?
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce, and I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Consider This from NPR
Trump says the economy is in 'transition.' What comes after?
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce, and I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Fresh Air
Seth Rogen Lands The 'Tragic' Job Of Studio Head
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Fresh Air
Seth Rogen Lands The 'Tragic' Job Of Studio Head
Over 70% of us say that we feel spiritual, but that doesn't mean we're going to church. Nope, the girls are doing Reiki, the bros are doing psychedelics, and a whole lot of us are turning inward to manifest our best selves. On It's Been a Minute from NPR, I'm looking at why maybe you and your closest friends are buying into wellness for spirituality.
Fresh Air
Seth Rogen Lands The 'Tragic' Job Of Studio Head
That's on the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR.
Fresh Air
The 'Fog Of Delusion' In Biden's Inner Circle
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Oh, yeah, that's the million dollar question. I have seen some early reviewers saying that it's a memoir, which it is definitely not. I want that to be clear, but I think it's a completely valid question. And I catch myself doing it as a reader, too, like the conflation of the main character with the author. And so, of course, I've thought about this a lot and been asked this a lot.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I think the ways that it is non-fictional are sort of subtler than one might realize. Like... I think the sensory details of my life and the characteristics of the people that I'm close to and that I've spent a lot of time noticing and observing, I think those are always the things that end up making their way into a book, which is sort of like...
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
I always say like the tax of dating or loving or befriending a writer is that all of these sort of like very specific, intimate, sometimes seemingly insignificant details are the things that end up being like woven into the book and making it have like the texture of real life.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And in a way that it's like probably only like that person would see themselves in it when they read it and be like, oh, like that's, That's the brand of perfume that I use. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, that's my turmeric-colored bedspread. Right.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Oh, that's a great question. I think Ruth is lonely and it actually has made me reflect a lot on my writing in general. And I think I'm always writing about characters who are defined by their longing and motivated by like trying to fill the God-shaped hole inside of them to use like 12-step language. And so I think Ruth is a... is a holy person, like H-O-L-E-Y, as perhaps we all are.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Yeah, and I think she has a lot of reservations about her own lovability and also her own desirability, which maybe is one of the many reasons why she enjoys her work as a stripper and later as a dominatrix And I think she's a very curious person, which probably would be the main ways that I think I'm like Ruth.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
I actually think I'm very different from Ruth, but we do share that fundamental curiosity and an attraction to underworlds or shadows, maybe. I feel like she's very unafraid of things that other people might deem seedy or grubby. I think she feels at ease in those environments or with those types of people.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Yeah. Well, I think I wanted it to be real and I wanted it to be empathetic and relatable and realistic and all of these things. And it makes Ruth, I think, a more like a character that we would see everywhere and a person who...
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
yeah, isn't this like flashing billboard image of a woman, even though in the sex work world, that's always, you know, what you're portraying or the role that you're stepping into. But even for the most, you know, like gorgeous woman working as a stripper or whatever, like that would always be a fantasy or a role that one is inhabiting.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I think all women, like regardless of what they look like, are actually like really good at that. and are really learned to play the role and to understand what someone wants before they understand it themselves. That's probably what makes an excellent sex worker, I think, is that almost mind-reading empathy and the ability to shapeshift.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And actually, I think that that's another big part of Ruth's averageness kind of being a benefit to her in these worlds is it allows her to shapeshift. And in general, she's a shapeshifter like outside the club as well.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Well, I guess probably the useless gender studies degree. No, I'm just kidding.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think when I... You know, I had the bizarre and, like, gorgeous but also very weird experience of publishing my book. So I wrote it when I was, I guess, like, 20, and then it came out right when I graduated. So, you know, that was amazing.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I think for me, and still actually like the most important thing to me upon graduating was wanting to have freedom and control of my time. And once my advance from the first book rather quickly ran out, I did the usual food service jobs, bartender, waitress, and anyone who's worked in food service jobs. knows how, you know, taxing that can be like mentally and psychically.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And so I think like many artists and many people, I started to despair because I felt like I was losing this control of my time and my space. And so I think like all of the decisions I made around the types of work that I would originally driven by this desire for freedom and control of my time.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And, you know, like if you can work one day of the week for $800 an hour and then have the rest of the week to write, that's the dream, you know, that's what has... And then I think once I got into it, in addition to the freedom and control of my time, you know, then I started to fall in love with it for...
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
the the curiosities that uh like how it satisfied my own curiosities and and the excitement of it and and just you know like i'm a writer so i'm always interested in stories and i kind of like randomly found this job or these this type of work where people are always telling you not just their stories but they're but they want to tell you their secrets You know, and I love to listen.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
So I kind of felt almost like called to the job, you know, like as someone who wants nothing more than to be like a keeper of these masculine secrets or to be a witness to people's longings and a witness to their grief. Like it felt, you know, not to say that I didn't have like... Weird sessions or rude clients.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Like, of course, like I never want to give off this impression that, you know, everything is always like rosy. Sitting down and talking, right?
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Yeah. Well, I mean, of course, like as a dominatrix and a provider, I have, you know, my own limits and I have the things that I really enjoy. Like I love cross-dresser sessions. I feel like I'm the perfect person for that because I have lots of cross-dressers in my regular life too.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And, you know, there's things that I don't do either because I, mainly more just because I feel like I'm not good at it, but... To answer your question more specifically, you know, like if someone's presenting me with a fantasy, like this disembodied fantasy, I think in general, I would like to think I'm a very open-minded person.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I don't think it's particularly hard to feel into their fantasy when, you know, the central longing or the central appetite behind the fantasy is clear to me or is laid bare, you know, like, So much of the time it's, you know, like it might seem inaccessible or insane, like a certain fantasy, but the heart of it is more relatable or familiar than maybe people would like to admit.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
So, yeah, I guess it's about empathy, which I always like to say that what makes a good writer is also what makes a good dominatrix, which is empathy and curiosity and bravery. So I guess those things all coming together... make it not easy, but make me feel able to receive these fantasies.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I guess I think of myself, I said it earlier, but like to be a witness, you know, like to witness something and hold space for it, you know, even if it's not my particular... Your cup of tea. Yeah, not my flavor. Yeah. Right. But to witness it feels important.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Right, right. Like a therapist, right? Like, I guess when your therapist sees you out in the world, they're not supposed to acknowledge you. Only once, actually, which is kind of interesting that it would only be once. And it was, I was late and walking to the dungeon to have a session with this person who was like killing time on the corner.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I remember he was wearing, you know, like the green M&M. He was wearing like a green M&M t-shirt and eating a piece of pizza. No, I was eating a piece of pizza.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And I remember thinking like, oh, no, this is like so like ruining his fantasy because I'm wearing like street clothes and like wearing like my like ratty like faux fur jacket and eating pizza really hurriedly because I'm late to my session. And I remember we just like locked eyes and then I just like kept walking.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And then, you know, 10 minutes later, he's at the dungeon and we didn't acknowledge it.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Exactly. And, you know, his fantasy of a dominatrix would probably be someone who like lives and sleeps and eats in like a full latex suit, you know. So I didn't want I felt kind of bad. I was like, oh, no, I like disrupted that fantasy for him with my pizza. Yeah.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
I don't think there's a particular age, but I do think that sex work in general is not something that you should plan to do forever. Which, again, you know, is true of many jobs. But I feel that it is so exhausting and there is like a certain amount of like emotional drainage that happens that...
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And, you know, inevitably, you know, it's also like the same thing with like you shouldn't model forever. Well, I guess you can model forever. But, you know, there there is like a like athletes. Yeah. But, you know, it does it does sort of change how you view yourself. if you're not so careful with your boundaries.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
And the reality is that most people start doing sex work when they're really, really young and don't have those boundaries in place. So actually, I would say it's better to start when you're a bit older, like at least 25, when your prefrontal cortex has developed.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
I mean, not that I did that, but now that I'm 30 and looking back, I'm like, actually, I think it's better to start when you're a bit older and to have a plan for your future self.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
I mean, you know, there are, of course, like dominatrixes of all ages, but I just think like how taxing it can be on your like psychic state is something that, yeah, you should take care of yourself in that way, you know, like because you're really absorbing so many people's energies and so much vulnerability and energy.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Yeah, and, you know, we are therapists, but we're maybe not trained therapists. So I think sometimes those boundaries can be slipperier than we realize until it's too late.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Well, literally like therapists. Like I know so many doms and sex workers of all stripes who then become so interested in therapy because they realize that that's what they've been doing.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Ariana Grande / Inside A Dominatrix's Dungeon
Thank you. I had so much fun and thank you so much for reading.
Fresh Air
Best Of: Amanda Knox / 'Adolescence' Co-Creator & Actor Stephen Graham
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it. And I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Fresh Air
50 Years Of 'Rocky Horror'
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it. And I think you will, too. Over the past couple of months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Fresh Air
50 Years Of 'Rocky Horror'
Over 70% of us say that we feel spiritual, but that doesn't mean we're going to church. Nope, the girls are doing Reiki, the bros are doing psychedelics, and a whole lot of us are turning inward to manifest our best selves. On It's Been a Minute from NPR, I'm looking at why maybe you and your closest friends are buying into wellness for spirituality.
Fresh Air
50 Years Of 'Rocky Horror'
That's on the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR. On the Embedded Podcast.
Fresh Air
'Hacks' Returns! With Jean Smart, Hannah Einbinder, Paul W. Downs
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Fresh Air
'Hacks' Returns! With Jean Smart, Hannah Einbinder, Paul W. Downs
How about tomorrow night? Somebody stop me.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
As somebody who wore glasses literally to their wedding reception, I'm going to reserve my thoughts on that. But I'm sure they look amazing. I'm sure they look amazing. Okay. So we know that office siren is glasses. We know it's thin eyebrows. What else does it look like?
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Girl, I agree. OK, my culture is not a costume. OK, I just can't see. And that's that about that.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Well, I can tell you what, it won't be me doing Zoom Chic, okay? Noted, noted. I'll hold you to that. Thank you. Well, Margaret, thank you so much for coming on and sharing this trend with us. This was so much fun. Yeah, Brittany, this was fun. Thanks. That was Margaret Serino. She's a producer over at NPR's Life Kit.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a minute and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
A warning, this segment contains references to sexuality and sexual violence. Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Today, I have a very special guest here with me. Yay. Margaret Serino. Welcome to It's Been a Minute. Hi, Brittany. Happy to be here. Happy to have you.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Why do you think Office Siren has stuck around?
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Okay, so fashion famously happens in cycles. So where do we see this emphasis on business wear happening in the past? Like what's the lineage of this trend of kind of putting a spin on business wear?
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Wait, hold on. So that's where the name white collar actually comes from, from this early 1800s fashion trend?
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Okay, oh my gosh. I love the idea. Also, though, like, I love the idea of a detachable collar. Mm-hmm.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Oh, I think that makes total sense. Like, when I think about iconic suits in the 80s, I think about, like she said, David Byrne of the Talking Heads, like, famous for wearing these big boxy suits that were really absurd-looking, but, you know, it totally matches his lyrics about the absurdity of modern life, or... or like Grace Jones nightclubbing.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
The album cover where she's wearing a suit and smoking a cigarette and she's kind of giving like androgynous, I don't know, it feels like a really interesting play on gender. Yeah, people were really playing with it.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Oh, do I remember? For the record, I didn't wear that much business wear in the club because I was busy wearing spandex, trying to be a hot girl. Like, I was trying to look like Carrie Hilson in Love in This Club video. But that style, that office wear style in the club was so rampant at the time that my friends and family sometimes made fun of me for not covering up enough.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
not covering up enough, in the club. That makes me so sad. And you want to know something? I look back, I have no regrets, okay? Good. But back then, the club was full of blazers, full suits, pencil skirts, cardigans, blouses. It was a thing for men and for women.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Oh, yes. I finished college in 2009. I'm intimately familiar. Yeah, I mean, entering or... Not entering the workforce in my case.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Oh, 100 percent. I mean, my friend John had this phrase at the time that we still use to this day, junior balling. He used it as a term to describe what it was like to get like your first scholarship. solid, full-time job. And junior balling was an achievement, okay? Because finding a full-time job at that time was really hard. Like, I finished college in 2009.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
I didn't start junior balling until 2015, okay? Okay. Okay. So the idea of, like, this stable, secure office job felt kind of like a have those kinds of jobs. Well, they didn't have a lot of extra money lying around for a separate club wardrobe. So office wear was, in a way, kind of like the junior ball uniform.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Okay. So Marge is my colleague over at Life Kit, but she's also one of the most fashionable people at the NPR New York Bureau. Oh, stop. I'm blushing. It's true, though. It's true. It's true. And she's often dressed in a style that's aptly called office siren. Yes. Yes.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
I also want to point out that the idea of office wear in the club back in the day It wasn't just about like fantasy or, you know, tight recession era budgets. For starters, I mean, some clubs have dress codes, right? No jeans, sneakers or gang wear, that kind of stuff. But I think another key part of this also goes back to 2005 when the NBA instituted a dress code.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
They previously did not have one that was like this. Long story short. After what is now called the malice at the palace, this huge fight that broke out on the court at a Pistons-Pacers game, the NBA commissioner decided that the league needed a dress code to help with its so-called image problems, let's say.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
So players went from wearing casual wear like do-rags, jerseys, jeans, big chains, and sneakers to and from games, right? Right. to being required to wear business dress, like suits and ties.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Even though they had to follow these rules that some players definitely felt and expressed that they felt they were racially dubious, at the end of the day, ballplayers are still trendsetters and fans wanted to look like them. And so the fans started wearing suits too. Wow. Yeah, that's so interesting.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Coming up, why office wear has come back in vogue and how it got freakified.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
OK, so there's like a history of this, right? You know, some of which I remember myself. But now we're in, as you described, this freakification moment.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Now, I understand that, but you're saying that it's also freakified, that it has, like, a kind of weird tinge.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
Yeah, I can totally see the allure of expressing all these different tensions and anxieties about work and sexuality and repression, you know, through your clothes. And I have to agree, like, you know, so many of the examples that you cited of freakified office wear are very cool. But I also can't think about the tension between sexuality and the workplace without thinking about Me Too.
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
I wonder how does our post Me Too world play into all this?
It's Been a Minute
Trend Alert: The girls are making office fashion sexy again
So do you think with even more changes to the economy and our workplaces that this trend will keep going?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Well, Esperanza, thank you so much for this conversation. This was so beautiful.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
And congratulations on your nomination. Thank you. And best of luck.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
You too. I love that. I'll take that. Thank you. That was Grammy Award nominee for Best Jazz Vocal Album, Esperanza Spalding. You could hear her collaboration with Milton Nascimento in full on their album, Milton and Esperanza. And one more thing before I go. We're working on a series about loneliness, and we want to hear from you. What does loneliness look like for you?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
How did you come to realize it was a problem? And Have you taken any steps to foster more connection in your life? If you're 18 or older, send us a voice memo to IBAM at NPR.org to tell us more. We're especially interested in stories from men and moms, but we'd love to hear from everyone and anyone else too. That's IBAM.org. at NPR.org.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose. Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Since then, Esperanza has become a music luminary with a sound that defies genres. She's performed with legends like Stevie Wonder and Patti LaBelle and was personally selected by Barack Obama to perform at the Nobel Peace Prize ceremonies. Her latest project combines her distinctive sound with that of Brazilian jazz icon Milton Nascimento on their latest album, Milton and Esperanza.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
The album is truly the best of both worlds. A love letter to the style and sound that has made Nascimento a jazz icon over the past half century. And the complex experimental melodies Esperanza has made her signature over the past two decades. How did each of you first learn of the other person?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
That's a good word to get put in for you.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This is one of those interviews where my parents are going to be like, oh. You talk to her. That's right, Mom and Dad. Today's guest is somebody you know I have been a fan of for a long time.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
That initial encounter led to a collaboration on Esperanza's 2010 album, Chamber Music Society. For Esperanza, it was a lesson in humility. I loved the album. I even got my dad into it. And I ended up going with my parents to see you at the Detroit show that you did on that tour back then.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
One of the songs on the album called Apple Blossom was my introduction to your collaborative relationship with Milton Nascimento.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
It's a gorgeous song. It's about the life cycles of both nature and love. What about working together on that song made you realize that Milton would become a friend and collaborator for life?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Back in 2010, I bought the CD of Chamber Music Society. It's been that long. I bought the CD. I went to a Borders. Oh, my gosh. Whoa.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
I mean, I have to be honest. I had never actually heard of Milton before your song Together back in 2010. But because you introduced me to him, I learned so much more about Black Brazilian musicians like Milton and Gilberto Gil. Like, talk to me about the Black Brazilian musical influences on this album and key moments where they stand out to you.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Flashback. Today's guest is jazz singer, multi-instrumentalist, and composer Esperanza Spalding. She's a 2025 Grammy Award nominee for Best Jazz Vocal Album, but she's no stranger to that golden statue. You might remember her as the winner of the 2011 Grammy for Best New Artist, beating out the likes of Florence and the Machine, Mumford & Sons, Drake, and Justin Bieber.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
But I also felt like throughout this album, you and Milton were having like a diasporic conversation.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Oh, I mean, to me, it felt very clear. I mean, it felt like you were blending your approaches to Black music together and finding... Like the tension where you all had different approaches was great. But then also there were some points where it was like clear you were coming from the same place. Would you describe it as like a diasporic conversation or some other way?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
And talk to me about how each of you communicated and what you were trying to say to each other.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Coming up, wise words passed from a jazz icon to a jazz legend in the making.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Stick around. You all were creating across generations as well, and not just with each other. I mean, the guest spots on this album also span generationally. Paul Simon, Leon LaHavas, the great Diane Reeves, and so many more people all appear on this album. I wonder what kind of intergenerational conversation is being had on this album?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
That's so beautiful. It's such a beautiful way of thinking about it that this is simply your community and these are the conversations that you are having musically and otherwise. Anyway.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
You are actually our third Grammy Best New Artist winner to appear on this show behind EGOT winner John Legend and one of your fellow nominees this year for Best Jazz Vocal Album, Samara Joy. Luscious company. I wonder, though, when it comes to the Best New Artists... Is there a club? A group chat?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
You and Milton, as you brought up, you both share a connection to the late great Wayne Shorter. In the 70s, Milton and Wayne collaborated on Native Dancer, as you mentioned. And decades later, you and Wayne collaborated on jazz opera shortly before his passing. The album is dedicated to him. Where do you feel or hear his influence most on this album?
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
Oh, I'm taking that to therapy. That's that's a good one.
It's Been a Minute
The Grammy nominee you need to hear: Esperanza Spalding
One last question. What's a song from this album that you feel is a perfect blend of your musical approaches? Yours and Milton's.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Well, I want to talk about the final film in this trio. It's a little bit more grounded in reality. There's no substance to speak of. There's no balance to keep with seven days here and seven days there. There's no vampires in this movie. But I think it drives home a lot of what we see in The Substance and Nosferatu. It's a little movie called Baby Girl.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Directed by Helena Rain. Ayesha, could you give us a quick rundown of the film?
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Aisha, Alexis, and I are getting into how women's desire, repression, and disgust have made the monsters that appear on screen all too real. And for those who haven't seen these films, there are some light spoilers ahead. But don't worry, we won't ruin the whole movie. First up, The Substance. The Substance
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
It isn't grotesque in the same way as like Lily Rose Depp, like convulsing with her eyes rolling back in her head. But the way that Nicole Kidman's character Romy treats herself, Is like, she might as well be Demi Moore's character from The Substance. She might as well be Ellen from Nosferatu.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
She is so ashamed and disgusted with herself for simply wanting something sexually, yes, but also I think even emotionally, romantically, than like the course that's been laid out for her when she's not at work. Okay. Clearly, I get the sense that her husband does not out earn her also in this movie. Yeah, he's like a theater director or something.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
But still, not that same. She's like big tech money, right?
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
You make a really good point, Alexis, about her just... It's like she's not able to enjoy herself partially because of this very specific shame that she has around her desires. It felt like she was both having her own very specific journey, but also...
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
very tapped into something that I think a lot of people feel when they are pulled in a lot of different directions between work, family, and marriage. There was not really any room left for herself in the room she took for herself. She was trying to better herself or do something to make herself better as opposed to make herself happy. What I did enjoy about this film is that
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
The ending did not go full Fatal Attraction. No. But I feel like usually in movies where women do something like have an affair, the women are severely punished. I think about that movie Unfaithful with Diane Lane and Richard Gere. Tyler Perry's temptation. Tyler Perry's everything. Tyler Perry's everything.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
So without spoiling the movie, I think that Nicole Kidman's character, Romy, faces consequences. But she also... experiences a catharsis. I feel like the movie kind of shows her having grown and learned from the experience of having an affair. I don't know. It was nice to see a woman embracing pleasure in her life.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
This Oscar-nominated film stars Demi Moore as Elizabeth, a fading celebrity who, on her 50th birthday, is fired from her job as a TV aerobics instructor. Then she's told about this substance, a drug that can make her young, hot, and most importantly, lovable again. She takes it and... Sue appears, played by Margaret Qualley. Sue is successful, beautiful, and gets Elizabeth's old job back.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Alexis, Aisha, thank you both so much for joining me today. I really had fun getting into the nasty bits with you both. Thanks for having me, Brittany. Thank you. That was iBand producer Alexis Williams and Pop Culture Happy Hour co-host Aisha Harris. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Potok.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
But the thing about the substance is you have to respect the balance. And Elizabeth can only live as Sue for seven days. Then Elizabeth must return to her old self. And that starts a vicious, very gory cycle that snowballs into one of the most gruesome body horror experiences that I've ever seen.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Aisha, when you think about this film in terms of women's relationship to the grotesque, or even women's bodies' relationships to the grotesque, what catches your attention?
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. You know the phrase, you don't want to yuck someone's yum? If you start with Orlok at a yuck, by the end, you're like, I see what Ellen is getting into with this.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
But Alexis, I'd love to hear from you on this.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
That scene in particular came up in one of those actress roundtables. Zendaya was there. Mikey Madison was there. Obviously, Demi Moore, Angelina Jolie. And at this roundtable, they're discussing the film, and someone brought up that scene. The going out scene?
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
And, I mean, I've just named extremely beautiful, extremely conventionally beautiful Hollywood actresses. They all also felt just as deeply touched by that scene as I was. You know, these are all women I think many people imagine, oh, if I looked like her, I would never feel this way again. It doesn't work like that.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
The substance was really interesting to me because it is so meta, as you brought up, Aisha. Like, Demi Moore is this gorgeous 62-year-old Hollywood A-lister, ruled the 80s, ruled the 90s, part of the Brat Pack, and she was considered this huge sex symbol. And I kind of wonder, like, if Demi Moore wasn't
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
someone who's still considered to be beautiful, desirable, aspirational, would she be so rewarded for this performance where she is uglying herself? Like, I wonder if there are some viewers, perhaps some Academy voters even, who find safety in the idea that the grotesque image of Demi Moore we're seeing on screen is
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
It's exploring ugliness, but like a very contained ugliness that doesn't need to be engaged with in real life.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Yeah. It is the last week of Oscar season. And instead of talking about the glitz and the glamour, I want to get nasty, but not in the way you may be thinking.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
So moving on to another film, Nosferatu, which ended up being actually one of my favorite movies of 2024. It was directed by Robert Eggers. And Nosferatu takes place in the early 1800s in Germany. And it follows a character named Ellen, who's played by Lily Rose Depp. And Ellen is a very lonely and sad young woman. And she's looking for connection, someone to help her feel less alone.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
And that's how she forms this psychic connection to Count Orlok, who is this evil vampire who also is like, I don't know, it feels like seven feet tall, bald, looks like a rotting corpse.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
And so Orlok wants Ellen all to himself, and he basically possesses her with these psychosexual seizures and fits. This is all happening until Ellen meets the guy who becomes her husband named Thomas. So Orlok... is obviously jealous when this happens and wreaks havoc upon their community. He's basically a plague unto himself, just taking everybody out.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
And Ellen basically has to figure out how she can leverage her connection to Orlok in order to save her town. So Alexis, I'd love to hear from you on this. What about this film and the way it gets into Ellen's relationship to the grotesque jumped out for you?
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
My producer, Alexis, noticed that some of our favorite films from the past year have been portraits of women battling with what disgusts them most, themselves, their insecurities, their desires, their yearning, and how those feelings manifest in a society that's often hostile to women. Think about it.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
I feel like in a lot of horror films, the heroine has to reject her monster or her own desires or overpower them or overcome them in order to triumph. But I thought it was interesting that in this film, Ellen has to become one with her monster, right? in order to not just free herself from torment, but to save her town.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Like when Orlok arrives in their city with this plague, it's not just rats, it's disease. People are getting sick and dying or being tormented in their dreams like Ellen. And Orlok eventually tells her that if she does not return to him, he will kill the people in her life that she loves. So, I mean, Ellen's got some big decisions to make.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
And honestly, she had a lot more agency in those decisions than I was expecting. Yes. I mean, one of the things that has been... also kind of confounded but kind of not to me, are seeing these thirst edits of Count Orlok. Even though we are definitely meant to find Orlok disgusting, we also find him compelling and appealing. Like, you know the phrase, you don't want to yuck someone's yum?
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
If you start with Orlok at a yuck, by the end, you're like, I see what Ellen is getting into with this.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Listen, you begin to see why she may not turn away.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
The substance, Nosferatu, even Baby Girl, all feature women dealing with some type of self-loathing made real. Whether that's through a literal monster or an affair with a younger coworker. But I wanted to dig deeper. So I called up Pop Culture Happy Hours' Aisha Harris to help. Hi.
It's Been a Minute
What women want: to embrace their inner monsters
Coming up, a film that's a bit more grounded in this world than the underworld, but just as fun.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Literally, literally a $35 bottle of olive oil called snake oil. Okay, so I get that part, but another thing I have trouble wrapping my head around is how monastic his life is. As we said, he has no pizza, no late night hangs with friends. He's trying to eliminate the human tendency to want things that may be bad for our bodies, but are, at least for me, good for the soul.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
And he also does some stuff that isn't so basic. like a kind of gene editing that hasn't been approved by the FDA, or not eating past 11 a.m., or wearing a hat that shoots red lights into his scalp. And for a while, he was taking the same medication that keeps people from rejecting their donated organs. This one guy is pretty extreme about longevity, but he's not the only one.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
I guess I want to know, what's the point of living forever if you cut out some of the things that, you know, for me, make life pleasurable.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Are we seeing this longevity obsession leach out into the wider culture? And if so, how is it showing up?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
My gosh, my gosh, my gosh. You know, even just looking at celebrities, I've seen like, you know, David Beckham is selling longevity pills and there's another company called Tally Health that's also getting investments from people like John Legend and Zac Efron. This stuff is out there. This stuff is out there. But Michelle, any final thoughts from you?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
How else are you seeing this obsession with longevity reach out into our wider culture?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
The longevity industry is worth over $25 billion, and other tech magnates are bought in too. But it's all left me wondering, in the words of Freddie Mercury, just who wants to live forever and why? And what does that mean for the rest of us?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Michelle, Tara, you have given me so much to think about today. I don't even know if y'all know, but this was a really great conversation. Thank you both so much.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
You just heard journalists Tara Isabella Burton and Michelle Santiago-Cortez. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a minute and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
To get into what might be a new religion of longevity and what it has to do with a prediction of total AI takeover, I'm joined by Michelle, who you heard earlier. Thanks for having me. And journalist Tara Isabella Burton. Thank you so much for having us. Let's get into it. So to start off, all the stuff Brian Johnson is doing to try to not die, do we know anything about the efficacy of all of it?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
So though Brian is particularly intense about this stuff, he's not the only one who's into longevity. There's a whole community of people, most of whom are kind of rich tech bros like him or adjacent to that world. Sam Altman and Peter Thiel are also investing in longevity. And stay with me while I'm explaining this.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
There is an island off the coast of Honduras that has much more relaxed regulations. So companies doing longevity science like Minicircle, which does gene editing, these companies can bypass the FDA while on the island. And there's demand for that. I think it's normal for people to be interested in living a longer life. But Tara, why to this extreme within this group of people? And why now? Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Have you heard of this guy named Brian Johnson? Tech sent a millionaire turned health guru? Maybe you know him from when he started getting infusions of his own son's blood.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
That is an excellent point. You know, I read one piece in The New Yorker by David Owen that theorized, and to quote him, simple arithmetic shows that if they live a normal lifespan, they won't have time to spend enough of their money. And Johnson himself described the time that he's added to his life as a new kind of wealth creation. You know, the old adage, like people say, time is money.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
And these guys already have a lot of money. What do you think about that?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
You know, at the same time, the healthcare system in this country is famously dysfunctional. It can be hard to access. It can be prohibitively expensive. And one survey shows that doctors and their staff spend, I'm sorry, I have to give a dramatic pause here. the equivalent of two full business days every week just dealing with insurance companies.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Good healthcare plans cost more, and so does living a healthy lifestyle that keeps people from a lot of types of sickness and death. Is a long life a kind of luxury?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Coming up, how is longevity related to the fear of an AI takeover?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Or for saying that he wants to live forever.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Or how he turned that idea into a movement he's calling Don't Die.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Going back to Brian Johnson, the other thing I'm really struck by is how heavily edited Johnson's own desires are. Like he says he's trying to eliminate his quote unquote rascal mind. Like the part of him that wants to eat pizza or stay up late, which I'm like, that's my full brain. He's got a team of doctors working with him to try to stop his aging. But he also has, as you said,
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
and algorithm run his life for him to take the human rascal brain out of control. I'm really interested in that piece. All of this longevity stuff for him is really wrapped up in his beliefs about AI. He says that AI superintelligence is inevitable and that, quote, we are at risk of extinction without a unifying framework to solve human alignment and AI alignment.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
It's about making sure we exist long enough to figure out what's next. So these things, they don't logically follow to me. Could you explain what's going on here?
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
If this seems bombastic, it's because it is. I think he's smart about how to make things go viral, to share his ideas about how to live and therefore how not to die, which includes some pretty basic stuff. Here's journalist Michelle Santiago-Cortez.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
Yeah, or in Johnson's case, that he can be around to figure out the answer. Absolutely. This is the thing, though. Okay, so like, I think where I'm at with all this, I'm like surprised that this total belief that AI is going to take over. And it's either going to be a good thing, or it's going to be a bad thing. But either way, we need to be prepared.
It's Been a Minute
The "priest of AI" & tech's pursuit of eternal life
And that's what Brian Johnson says is behind his movement or religion, as he has called it, don't die. But where are we seeing that belief about AI shaping our culture in other ways?
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
When they, when people were like, Oh, Harry Styles might've spit on Chris Pine. And it's like, I just don't think that happened. I saw that. I was like, I don't think he did that.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
I'm glad I was able to come and commiserate with the two of you because I have been trying to make sense of this. And you all actually at least gave me some good ways to think about and understand what's going on. So Parker, Aisha, thank you both so much.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
That was Pop Culture Happy Hours, Aisha Harris and Code Switch's B.A. Parker. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
This episode was edited by Nina Patak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
It made me think about a phrase that gets thrown around a lot online. Media literacy. According to the National Association of Media Literacy Education, media literacy is the ability to encode and decode the symbols communicated in what we consume. And for me, most importantly, being able to critically analyze those symbols for a richer takeaway.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
And seeing some of this commentary has me concerned that we're struggling with the necessary tools to even critically approach some of the things we're watching for entertainment. So I called up Pop Culture Happy Hours' Aisha Harris.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
To ask them, where else are they seeing this? And what does this media literacy crisis mean for the way that we engage with the world at large?
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Like almost every other person in the country, I flocked to see Ryan Coogler's Sinners when it hit theaters in April. And while I enjoyed the film, part of the fun was seeing all the excitement online.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
It's made plain as day by the people who actually created the thing. But I'm curious, Parker, have you had this experience?
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
And there's like a big, like that's a huge, what you're referring to is a huge emotional scene on the show that makes it very clear that they share some type of very serious, like intimate past.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
But let's get into the meat and potatoes of why I brought you both here today, because the online discourse around the film centers has broken my brain. They had me concerned about not just how people were misunderstanding story, as each of you have discussed, but also how people were misunderstanding pretty common racial dynamics. And a lot of these reactions were coming from Black people.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
I want to talk about a specific situation. There's a character in the film named Mary, played by Hailee Steinfeld. Mary is a character who actually, like the real-life actress Steinfeld, has a grandparent who is mixed race.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
One of the main characteristics of her character is that she is passing for white, but she is aware, and at least privately acknowledged, like many white-passing Black people, that she has Black ancestry and she was raised around Black people. Yeah. And I have seen so many people saying that she actually was white. She should be considered white.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
People simply just not understanding how the one-drop rule worked back then, how segregation worked back in the Jim Crow South. What in the Lena horn are we doing here? It stressed me out. But my concern with this is two-pronged because, you know, this seems like people don't know, A, how to understand history, B,
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
and locate a story within a certain historical context, or B, that they also don't understand storytelling, or in this case, how to understand cues and clues that a movie will give you to understand what it's trying to tell you. What do you all make of this phenomenon? Aisha, we'll hear from you first.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
So when I was finally able to scroll through all the spoiler-heavy commentary, I was shocked to see some of the wildest takes I've seen on a movie in a while. For example, there's a Chinese character in the film named Grace, played by Li Junli. And for those who haven't seen it, this is a light spoiler, but she's responsible for a pretty big moment in the film.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
To me, that seems like straight up denial.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
Coming up, how our digital lives may have changed the way we interpret media.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
I feel like a crucial aspect of this media illiteracy campaign is moralizing. And Alexis, our producer, she brought this up. And I'm like, you're so right. There's almost like this entertainment moralizing process where you watch a piece of entertainment and then spend time researching or processing whether the film matches your values or the values of those around you in some cases.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
And then you decide how you feel about what you watched and whether you think it's good or bad. It kind of becomes less about... Like whether you actually think something is well done or entertaining and like more about whether or not this piece of media makes you seem or feel like a good person or confirms what you already believe about the world.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
But what I, and also the director of the film, Ryan Coogler, felt was a rash decision made by a mother in distress, some viewers thought was a representation of a lack of POC solidarity from Asian folks in Black communities. Even stranger, some audience members thought Annie, played by actress Umi Mosaku, was one of the main characters Smoke's mother.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
I mean, it kind of feels like there's like a newer self-awareness for many people around, whether it's around feeling like a good person or at least having your choices confirmed that like kind of gets, I feel like audiences further away from actually sitting with art.
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Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
Yeah. Yeah. Another thing I think about in all this, we're talking about media literacy and entertainment, right? But there's other ways to be media literate that I think we've seen plenty of examples of. I mean, you know, more people than ever are getting their news through social media as opposed to through traditional news outlets.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
But this makes me wonder, like, if audiences can't accurately read a film or TV show where the writer and director are giving them clues... and directing their attention to what they need to be focused on, how might they understand or misunderstand complex news stories with huge real-life implications?
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
I don't need this. I'm like, please pay attention to me. But that's a really good point. People's attention is very split. And I see those things pop up in the way that people consume news. I see that pop up in the way that people are engaging with our rapidly changing political landscape.
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
And also, I think that makes me think about algorithms, like people's individual worldviews are now also deeply affected by their algorithms. I wonder, like, where does that take us as a society? Like, where does that leave us? Where are we going, y'all?
It's Been a Minute
Pop culture has a "bean soup problem."
Now, for those who don't know, Annie is the estranged wife of Smoke, one of the two smokestack twins played by Michael B. Jordan. Just wild stuff. But this isn't the first time the audience has been out of step with the content itself. The endless rabbit holes and theories around season two of Severance made me want to swear off the fandom entirely.
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How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Jeez. I got one last question. What is higher education for?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Now, some of this was already in the works. For example, places like Yale University have been steadily increasing their Black and Latino student enrollment for years. And while there has been some expected decline at some institutions like Amherst and MIT, I was shocked to learn that there were some cases where Black and Latino enrollment either stayed the same or went up.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
My gosh. Well, Alyssa, Zach, thank you both so much. This was a really informative conversation.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Thanks, Brittany. That was NPR's Alyssa Nadworny and labor economist Zach Bleamer. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
And that hasn't gone unnoticed. As a part of the Trump administration's policy to end DEI, over 50 schools are being investigated for alleged racial discrimination against white and Asian students.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
At the same time, Harvard just announced that it'll make tuition free for families with income under $200K as a way to make it more accessible. And that made me wonder, as DEI initiatives are being shut down and hefty legal fines threaten longstanding endowments, why do some of these schools seem to be getting more inclusive?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
And more importantly, how are they doing this without racial demographic data? To find out, I'm joined by NPR's Alyssa Nadwarni. Excited to be here. And labor economist Zach Bleamer.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
To get into the mysterious world of college admissions and how higher education is finding its way around an upended system.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
You know, one theory that I've seen is that, you know, schools figured out that socioeconomic status could be used as a proxy signifier for race. According to the Department of Labor, Black folks, for example, make about 76 cents to a white person's dollar. In what ways does socioeconomic status show up in the admissions process?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. A lot of people call what you're talking about in that sense, like, quote, unquote, race-neutral alternatives for decision-making. What do you all think about that term, race-neutral alternatives?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
I mean, and of course, you know, every student, regardless of race or socioeconomic status, has the capacity to learn, to achieve, to do well and what have you in college. But what you're saying is that these are some ways that policy affects who's getting admitted to college.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Fascinating. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. You gave me so much to think about with that. Gosh. Some people have called what you're talking about, even specifically looking at income or zip codes or high schools or whatnot. A lot of people call what you're talking about in that sense, like, quote, unquote, race neutral alternatives for decision making.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
What do you all think about that term, race neutral alternatives?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Got it. So affirmative action is asking how to go beyond test scores and include some additional strong candidates that might be able to benefit from higher education.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
The legal costs of trying to maintain diversity initiatives in higher education and beyond.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
After the Supreme Court banned affirmative action in 2023, many have been curious to see how the ruling would affect college admissions, particularly as it pertains to race.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
So I want to introduce some more complexity into the situation here. There's this man, Edward Bloom. He's the head of Students for Fair Admissions, SFFA, and was also the plaintiff in the Supreme Court case that ended affirmative action.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
And he has already threatened to sue Yale, Princeton and Duke for using what he calls race neutral alternatives to affirmative action, basically claiming these institutions are still achieving diversity, but in admissions using other signifiers and that that is illegal. But legality aside, why? Why would an elite university put themselves in the position to be investigated?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Like why might an admissions office or admissions officers still pursue diversity if it puts them at legal risk?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Okay, but what about private universities? Why would they implement these policies?
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
I mean, there's also in this whole conversation, there is an elephant in the room. And yes, I am talking about Republicans, specifically the president and his administration's campaign against diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, both within the federal government, but also in education. We know that Trump wants to disband the Department of Education.
It's Been a Minute
How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
He recently laid off, I think, over 1,000 department employees and plans to use the Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division to go after private and public companies that explicitly or implicitly uphold DEI in some capacity. I think I just saw this morning that the Trump administration was planning to go after, I think, 50 colleges and universities specifically on the grounds of DEI.
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How "race-neutral" can universities really be?
Yes. How does this set the stage for a whole new culture battle in higher education? Like a place where questions about the importance of diversity have been debated, you know, since affirmative action started like over 60 years ago.
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Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
I have one last thing that I want to say. which is Kiki Palmer needs to be the lead of every movie. Whatever movies are coming out, she could have been the lead in Nosferatu. She could have played it. I'm sorry. She needs to be the lead in every movie. The same way talented young man, but the same way Timothee Chalamet, I feel like every time I turn around, it's a new version of Timothee.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
You just want to replace Timothee Chalamet with Kiki Palmer. I think actually he would love that. I actually think he would love that. She has that, like, not to quote Eli Wallach from The Holiday, but she has real gumption. And I just, yeah, it's a joy to see her on screen. And I just wish I could see more of her. That's how I feel, basically. That's my main review of One of Them Days.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
Kiki Palmer, if you're listening, please, whatever you do, do more of it. That was NPR's Aisha Harris, Stephen Thompson, and Corey Antonio Rose. I'm Brittany Luce, and this has been the Pop Culture Happy Hour. It's been a minute collab that I know y'all have been waiting for. You can hear more from Pop Culture Happy Hour every weekday, wherever you get your podcasts.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
I had fun. I had fun. I feel like the film advertised itself as like a fun, silly movie, and it was a fun, silly movie. I was charmed by SZA. She had a very warm on-screen presence that I was really surprised by, pleasantly surprised by. I had never really known her to act, so I didn't know what to expect. This is her first film role.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
She did pretty good. And of course, Kiki Palmer, you said that she's one of Hollywood's most charismatic leads, and that is just nothing but true. I thought that she was better than the film, but she's also very frequently better than the film. So I don't know if that's really saying a lot. Very true. And that's not necessarily an insult to the films that she's in. That's just Kiki being Kiki.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
I will say... It had been, I think the first time I had seen her like in an adult role in a straight up comedy like this. And I was like, I wanted more. I left the film feeling like, okay, I could watch Kiki do this like six times a year. But yeah, I thought that it was a little slapsticky at times. That's not really my jam 100%. But I still felt like it was a lot of fun.
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Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
They had good chemistry between SZA and Keke Palmer. And also a lot of really great, very solid comedic little roles that were filled by really, really, really great, really funny actors. Like I would see someone like Cat Williams pop up. Or Lil Rel Howery. Oh my gosh, Lil Rel pop up. Now, I will say, sometimes I felt like the movie was getting a little like, it was spinning out a little too much.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
I felt like at a certain point that Alyssa and Drew should not have been friends anymore. We're going to get to that because I have some questions about that. That was one where I was like, you actually, I think y'all should have ended this movie separated. But this was a lot of fun. All right.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. So y'all probably already know this, but here are two of my favorite things in the whole world. One, I love to go to the movies. And two, I love to talk about movies. So, wow, lucky me.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
You got problems. You guys are old. Way too old not to understand how credit works.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour not only asked me to come on their show and talk about SZA and Keke Palmer's new movie, One of Them Days, they even got me tickets to go see it in theaters. Ah, I love you guys. Pop Culture Happy Hour's Stephen Thompson and Aisha Harris team up with me and my producer, Cory Antonio Rose, for an IBAM and Pop Culture Happy Hour collab.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
It was hard to even get a demographic breakdown. But I 150% agree. I think that Drew and Alyssa needed to break up. I thought the end of the film, to me, Drew should have kicked Alyssa to the curb. And I think that she really should have focused on her career and also on her love life with this good-looking... That's what I will say. The film's not lacking in good-looking people.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
Listen, there might have only been a few people in the theater, but there were twice as many hotties on screen. We're going to take a quick break, but when we get back, we're getting into Issa Rae's knack for casting and so much more. We'll be right back.
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
Wait, Courtney, I want to ask you a question. You had mentioned in a chat that we had last week that you were like, I think I had seen the film and you had yet to see it. And you had like some curiosity about like how it was going to speak to like the current moment of being like,
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
black in your 20s and in a city trying to like be on the come up did you feel like it was like relatable in any aspect or that it was like uh speaking in an honest way in in any aspect you know there's a moment at the beginning of the film where they come out or they're they're coming back to their apartment and they see one of their neighbors and he's outside all his stuff on the sidewalks
It's Been a Minute
Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
to tell you why this new movie that gets into gentrification, young black womanhood, and the legacy of black comedy is an 85% success. And just so we're all on the same playing field, Stephen is going to give us all a synopsis of this film.
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Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
Right. Yes.
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Need a laugh in these trying times? 'One of Them Days' is the comedy for you
Yes.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
It's so wild to me. I'm kind of concerned about why we would need computers or even more casual TikTok phrenology or physiognomy to tell us about people's qualities that they can't just tell us themselves. But I wonder, what are the possible consequences of this resurgence in phrenology and physiognomy?
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Because something peculiar is happening. To my eye, there's been more interest lately in some of the ideas behind phrenology and physiognomy. From quote-unquote witch skulls and angel skulls, to the skull geometry of transvestigators, to the question of whether AI can detect gay faces, it seems like more and more people want to categorize each other with just a look at their heads.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Well, Lily, Miles, I really appreciate you all coming on the show today and educating me on all the nuances of our modern day phrenology. I really appreciate it. Thank you both so much.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Thanks for having me. That was Yale philosophy professor Lily Hu and Rolling Stone culture writer Miles Klee. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a minute and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
This episode was edited by Nina Patak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Here's my chat with Lily and Miles to understand the appeal and consequences of fake skull and face science coming back around in our culture. Even if it might not actually work, I am seeing a lot of that same idea that our skulls or our faces say something about who we are as people pop up in our culture anyway. Miles, where are you seeing that out in the wild?
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Yeah. Talk to me about what some of these posts look like. I mean, you've mentioned the angel versus witch skulls, which already gives me pause. I mean, social connotations of who is angelic versus who's a witch. I could see those readings getting racist real quick. You had a great piece that you wrote for Rolling Stone where there's talk of like herbivore eyes.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Please talk to me about what these posts look like and how people are engaging in them.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Right, like Halle Bailey or Anya Taylor-Joy, yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Can the shape of your skull or the look of your face say something deeper about you? Hello. Like if you're a good parent, or if you're smart, or if you're more likely to be a criminal. Well, the answer is no, absolutely not.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Lily, what do you make of this impulse to categorize faces in this way?
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
To get some background, when was phrenology popular and why?
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Yeah, to that point about who's being colonized, I read that scholars believe that there's a pretty direct connection between Andrew Jackson's Indian Removal Act and phrenologists declaring Native Americans as not fit for civil life based on head shape. It's interesting to consider how phrenology and physiognomy justified racism as an answer to these social questions.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
That said, how was phrenology disproved?
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Right. And the scientific consensus is that evidence doesn't support a genetic basis for race or for racial difference in terms of mental capacity either. But I began getting served phrenology content maybe a year or a year and a half ago. I started getting these like posts about Viking-like phenotypes, that language coming up a lot more.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
I mean, phenotype is something I hadn't really thought about since freshman year of high school when I took biology. And for those who need a refresher, phenotype just means how your genes are expressed and how you look. Like for example, I have my dad's nose instead of my mom's nose, even though both are encoded in my genes.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
But I've seen these kinds of like, you know, return type posts about needing more Viking-like things. phenotypes. It just seems like they kind of want more strapping white people. I don't know. Have you seen that kind of stuff as well?
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Coming up, why phrenology is linked to fate and who that hurts.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
But in the past, some scientists used the pseudosciences of phrenology, which studied the skull, and physiognomy, which studied the face, to try to prove that how you look says something about who you are on the inside. Again, it's junk science. Totally fake. However, these junk sciences were used towards some pretty racist ends.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
I also want to zoom out and mention something you said the other day in your pre-interview. There continues to be racial injustice. So long as that's the case, there will always be a population of people, including scientists, who are trying to answer why by saying maybe there's something different about these people. Maybe that explains the disparities.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Maybe not because we haven't invested into welfare or ongoing sources of deprivation. Maybe because these populations are not fit for modern life. I thought that was a really interesting point.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
You know, what Lily's saying, Miles, makes me think of something that you brought up in your writing in terms of like gender policing. Miles, when you wrote about this, you also discussed the rise of transvestigation.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
For people who don't know, transvestigators are people that take pictures of celebrities or politicians and try to look at their bodies and, yes, skulls to prove that they are trans. As an example, Candace Owens recently has gotten a lot of attention, I think, for her podcast and YouTube channel for... quote unquote, transvestigating Brigitte Macron, the wife of the president of France.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Miles, in your article about this, you showed a screenshot of people using skull geometry to try to prove that J. Robert Oppenheimer is trans. How does the rise of phrenology tie into biological essentialism and transphobia?
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Phrenologists used to rank people by race, from most to least evolved, just by using the shapes of their skulls. So phrenology is a classic hit now in the pseudosciences. That's Yale professor of philosophy, Lily Hu. She studies social science, race, and machine learning. She's here with me today, along with Rolling Stone culture writer, Miles Klee.
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Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Right. But the idea that you can tell who is trans by their skull or face is kind of iffy. Again, they're transvestigating people like Oppenheimer. I saw a post where people transvestigated Shrek even. But also this idea of biological inevitability that's kind of undergirding this whole thing.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
also feels very connected to the basically eugenicist idea that some people simply aren't fit to be integrated into society. That idea of biological destiny, it seems like it can be used as a tool to limit people in so many different ways. And unfortunately, we're also seeing some belief in this within the sciences.
It's Been a Minute
Fake skull science is back - and it's still racist
Lily, you mentioned that Stanford researchers published a study that appeared to show that AI could detect Gay faces. I think others have questioned those results, but regardless, I think greater focus on face detection and surveillance just in general might be pushing some of this stuff to the fore. Can you say more about that and its connection to phrenology and physiognomy?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Hello. The other day I was scrolling NPR's homepage and I saw a story that absolutely stopped me in my tracks. An AI video of a manslaughter victim was used to address his killer in a court of law.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Now, what's so interesting to me about this story is that it feels like the start of a new relationship between AI and the law.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
I want to know, how will it change our relationship to the law? And what are the broader impacts we might see on our culture?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
I'm joined by Juliana, who you just heard. Hi there. And Professor Brandon Blankenship, an assistant professor and director of the pre-law program at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
So, Juliana, tell me the rest of the story of this AI video. Why did Stacey feel so strongly about making it?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Interesting. Okay. So why is this different from other attempts to bring AI into the courtroom? Brandon, I'd love to hear from you.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
The law, though, is ultimately about how we relate to each other as human beings, like person to person. And AI is famously not human. So what would it mean for AI to get more into the legal mix than just this one case, this one time?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Are there other cans of worms this opens up?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Coming up, the broader implications of AI renderings after death, both in and out of the courtroom.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Are there other cans of worms this opens up?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
So I called up NPR digital news reporter Juliana Kim to learn more about what happened.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Do you think there might be cultural impacts if posthumous AI in or out of court becomes more common?
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
That's an aspect of this that makes everything so complex to me. I mean, to be honest, it's hard for me to know how to feel about this. I'm glad it gave Chris Pelkey's sister closure and their family closure.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
In my own life, I've had a friend pass away and another friend used AI to remake a really beautiful photo of them in a way that was very heartwarming and very comforting and very soothing and really celebratory. And so I understand how that works.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
But on the other hand, like, I wonder if there are further ethical implications, you know, we should think about as a culture before using this tech more in our courts. Personally, I would only trust like one or two people to speak for my views after my passing.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
And I would never want AI to speak for me, even though, I mean, there's like probably thousands of hours, I'm sure out in the world at this point of me running my mouth, they might be able to build a pretty good learning machine based upon things that I've already said. But I could see in other cases, a family using AI to speak for a victim in ways they wouldn't want in court. Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Wow. These are things I never thought I'd have to think about. But you raise a very good point, Brandon. Gosh, thank you both so much. I really appreciate this conversation. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me. That was NPR digital reporter Juliana Kim and Brandon Blankenship, assistant professor at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood.
It's Been a Minute
A tale of murder, artificial intelligence, & forgiveness
Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
To your point about the possibility that the things that you write about, things that you're thinking about could be weaponized. I mean, I get the sense from reading your work that you cover a lot of stuff that perhaps trans people don't always want to talk about in mixed company. Yeah. And to a certain degree, I get that. In a way, being at NPR for me is being in mixed company.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
This show has a really wide, diverse audience with all kinds of people, which I love, but it's a very different experience than the kinds of shows I worked on in the past. For years, I hosted shows that were primarily speaking to Black audiences. And so, you know, I felt free to talk about certain things without adding as much context.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
But even now, you know, sometimes it's worth saying something a little spicy or getting into a conversation that might, you know, not be so cut and dry because I value having a certain conversation more than the possibility of non-Black people being in Black people businesses. But I see you having this like very rich line of inquiry into all of these taboo topics.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
And it feels like a bid that it's worth discussion. Like you say, it might help somebody, it might free somebody. Talk to me more about how you value, you know, getting into it more than you're worried about anybody or any haters, let's say, weaponizing it.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
So I want to start with the epigraph of this book, your letter to the reader before the book even begins. And in it, you say, what interests me, what has always interested me is the binary between cis and trans. Where is the line? Is it even a binary? Talk to me about that. And what about that binary needs some investigation?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
Yeah, let's talk about that story called Infect Your Friends and Loved Ones, if you don't mind giving us a synopsis.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
First of all, I want to say you were in your bag writing this genre. I just want to say I was like the pages turned themselves. I think it's really interesting to make a world where everyone must choose. But in that world, it's still a very constrained choice.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
It's not like a utopia of gender where, you know, everyone can kind of pick and choose as they wish because it's hard for people to get some of these hormones. Talk to me more about that. Like why having to choose and getting to choose are different things.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
You know, I hate to bring politics up because I enjoyed your book and was interested in your thoughts before this new administration, but... We live in a country now where trans people can't change their gender markers on their passports. And there have been executive orders aimed at restricting health care and sports participation for trans people.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
The T has been cut out of LGBT on things like the Stonewall National Monument website, which I'm like, wouldn't be no Stonewall without the T. It's an erasure. Yeah. Given all that. You started the book with the question, what does it even mean to be trans? Does that question have a different dimension to it now?
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"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
Right. I will spell it out for them in case they don't have Google handy. V-coding is the practice of placing trans women in cells with male prisoners as a reward or a form of social control that hinges on trans women being raped.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
Tori, thank you so much. Thank you for this conversation. This was really great.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
That was Tori Peters. She's the author of the book Stag Dance, which is out now. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. We had fact-checking help from Barclay Walsh and Gerald L. Cohen. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
Hmm. Well, let's get into Stag Dance, specifically the titular story. Can you give the listeners a short synopsis?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
A warning, this segment contains references to sex, sexuality, and rape. Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
I'm really glad to hear you describe this as your Americana Western story, because I want to shout out how incredible the language was throughout that novella. It was all in this old-timey vernacular, and it gave such a clear picture of the world that the characters were in. It gave me such a clear picture inside Babe, the main character's mind.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
The thing I was really interested in with Stag Dance was how Babe came to understand his feelings about gender without having... any of the modern language that we have. But even when there are no available words for Babe to understand his desires, he goes on desiring to feel feminine anyway. In what ways does our language around gender today help people to understand themselves?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
And in what ways does it fail at explanation?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
You mentioned that Babe is the biggest, strongest, ugliest person in the entire logging camp. There was a lot of discussion of Babe's looks. And Babe's actually a mean nickname because, you know, he's described as looking like Babe the Blue Ox, like Paul Bunyan's ox. It hurt my heart a little bit every time I saw, you know, this character respond to that name.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
But there's another person at the camp who's also going to the stag dance as a lady. named Leeson, who's smaller, prettier, more feminine. I understand that this is kind of taboo to discuss, like who passes less naturally, or as my producer Liam tells me, you know, calling someone quote unquote bricky. Why was it compelling to you or interesting to you to explore that?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
That makes me think also about how like in the 1960s and 70s, they mostly let people who were thought to be People who could pass easily get gender reassignment surgery. That also affects who we understand as trans historically.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
My guest today is a repeat guest for the show.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
Coming up, why Tori keeps writing about contentious topics within the trans community, even with increased scrutiny on trans people.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
That's author Tori Peters. She came on It's Been a Minute in 2021 to talk about her last book called Detransition Baby. It was a blockbuster of a novel that brought trans literature to a huge audience. And let me tell you, Tori is not afraid to ask the pointed questions about gender and our culture's relationship to it. Like, what does it even mean to be trans?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
I want to talk about two of your stories together, The Chaser and The Masker. Could you give quick synopses of each of those?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
I felt a little Tinge of Dawson's Creek in there.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
So the reason I want to talk about these together is because they both deal in the ambiguity of gender and sexuality. In The Chaser, you mentioned there's this teen boy who knows his roommate has some kind of gender going on and he likes it.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
But also in The Masker, the main character has to decide whether his fetish for dressing himself up in feminine clothes is connected to a desire to be a woman or not. And I know that this is also contentious to discuss as well.
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
Yeah. Trans people have been accused of only transitioning as part of a fetish, even if they're just trying to live mundane lives in a different gender. But at the same time, gender and sexuality are somewhat interlinked. What did you want to explore about where those two things connect, gender and sexuality?
It's Been a Minute
"Gender is a negotiation" whether you realize it or not.
And what if all of us, cis and trans, had to choose our genders? That's exactly what she dives into in her new book called Stag Dance. It's a collection of four novellas. I'm here with Tori to explore the nuances of gender, desire, and performance, and the stakes of writing this book in our current political climate.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
That's Rommel Ross, director of the film Nickel Boys. It's based on the book The Nickel Boys by Colson Whitehead, a book that's sometimes been called unadaptable because of its unique mix of perspective and metaphor. Now, the film adaptation is nominated for two Oscars, including Best Picture.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Hmm. Hmm. Well, thank you so much for making such a heartbreaking and also beautiful film. And thank you so much for talking with me today. I really appreciate it so much. Thank you.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
That was Rommel Ross, director of Nickel Boys. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
The film follows the lives of two black boys, Elwood and Turner, who meet at Nickel Academy, an abusive reform school in Tallahassee, Florida. The entire film is shot in first person, which I will say takes some getting used to, but within the first few minutes of watching the movie, I felt immersed in a way that felt deeply personal.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Maybe the most refreshing thing about the film is the way it depicts violence. As audience members, we're so used to seeing the horrors of that time period and brutality against Black people, but Nickel Boys takes a different approach.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Today, Rommel Ross joins me.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
to get at the core of what makes Nickel Boys a profoundly new portrait of Black life in the Jim Crow South. We talk about the legacy of Black trauma films and how a different point of view, behind and on camera, made all the difference.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. When you think of the civil rights era, what comes to mind? Do you hear the sounds of bus boycotts and sit-ins? Maybe you think of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. giving a speech.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
It's not contextless.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Bearing in mind this thought that you just shared around context, subjectivity, perspective, framing when it comes to how Black people have been depicted through imagery and since the camera, right? I wonder what does filming in first person add to a film about this era?
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Shout out Jomo for a fantastic cinematographer.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
But also for those of us who are not filmmakers, who are simply film goers, and there's way more of us, we also understand that language and it becomes cultural shorthand for all of us. And it also kind of goes out of your control as a filmmaker once it hits the audience as well.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Right. And that makes sense then, shooting Nickel Boys and POV, showing these not just Black people, but Black children who are in this extremely vulnerable position in this so-called reformatory school in the South in the 1960s. There's already so much in that setting that is working against these main characters that
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
And when you consider the visual language that a lot of Hollywood or a lot of filmmakers rely upon when showing Black people in this way, it seems like this film is a really interesting intervention for that. Thinking about that, I also want to talk about The way that you and your crew chose to depict violence in this film.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Because the film is shot in POV, we rarely see physical violence enacted on the characters. We instead see what they're seeing, you know, the floor, window pane, the backs of their classmates' heads. We'll hear the sound of a leather strap hitting someone's skin. We will hear... like a droning, chilling fan, just like worrying in the background.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
You managed to capture the insecurity and trauma of experiencing violence without showing it explicitly. Talk to me about why and how you chose this approach.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
These are the images that history books and Hollywood have made the calling cards of an era. And that is a pretty accurate interpretation of the time. But missing in all that conflict and struggle is the mundane, the quotidian, the average everyday life of Black Americans simply trying to live. And that's something director Rommel Ross hadn't seen. The story of Black people through our own eyes.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
That's such a good point. I guess you're trying to show the audience something, but I feel like you really pushed past that to get me into feeling like the character in a way that's much different
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Coming up, why do we see certain kinds of Black stories at the Oscars year after year?
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
Rommel Ross's take on Black trauma films and why the conversation is necessary.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
I imagine you're aware of all the never-ending discourse about Black trauma films, this idea that most or even all theatrically released films about Black people are stories about racist violence. And by the numbers, this obviously isn't true. There are still plenty of Black movies telling happy or contemporary stories. Yeah. Talk right now.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
One of them days was number one in box offices just recently. But I do think that this assumption about Black trauma films being most of what Black filmmaking is, is based on something real about how damaging bad movies about racism or bad movies about our history can be. What do you think about this discussion? And was it something on your mind during the making of Nickel Boys?
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
You know, I was really moved by how much visual beauty there was throughout the film. There's a lot of pain, there's a lot of brutality, there's a lot of violence, but you see what a day looks like from the perspective of the main character, Elwood, and it makes you mourn with him for the community that he was snatched away from when he was sent to Nickel.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
And often in period pieces, something that sometimes it don't bother you, sometimes it does, you get a sense for what's happening out in the world, but you don't always get a sense of a character's daily life. I felt like I both understood the world that Elwood lived in, but I also understood his community.
It's Been a Minute
Nickel Boys gives a new point of view to the Civil Rights era
I also understood what he thought was fun and interesting and beautiful, what mattered to him on the individual level. And so much of it was him appreciating and noticing what was beautiful in his world. And I wonder, in a film with so much heaviness, how do you see the function of beauty?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
That reminds me of one of the lines in your book. You said, the critic owes her allegiance to human beings.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
But she also asks, what kind of authority do critics have? And do we need to rethink what criticism should do for us? All right, here's my conversation with Andrea. Let's get critical. To get right into it, you say art can exist for art's sake, but criticism has a job to do.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Thank you so much for your book and thank you so much for joining us.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
That was writer and critic Andrea Long Chu. Her new book, Authority, is out now. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
And in one of your essays, you write that the job of criticism is to give art context rather than art providing the context for itself. I'm really interested in how you do that job. I know that you do a pretty exhaustive deep dive into your subjects. You know, that for book reviews, you read the book you're reviewing and pretty much
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
everything else that the author has written plus all their interviews about their work. So how do you look past what people might say about their own writing to understand what they're really saying with their writing?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Say more about that. What do you mean it's for them?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Yeah, when you say that you feel like artists or writers may not be aware of what they're doing, is it that they're too close to the subject? Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. for a blog that was about watching episodes of Sex and the City?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
You spend a lot of time, as I said, trying to get like really deep into what they think they're doing. But also one of the threads that really comes through is desire, not just in the romantic sense or in the sexual sense, but basically like what people want, why they want it and how that shapes both art and politics.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
You wrote an essay about a bunch of recent books that use mixed race Asian characters to kind of talk about what makes them. I'm an Asian American person, Asian American or not. And you come to the conclusion that for Asian Americans, including mixed ones, the identity isn't made totally of genetics or food or upbringing. You write that it's also about choosing to be part of Asian America.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
I'll paraphrase something that you said. People want race. They want race to win them something, to tell them something they were never told. And sometimes they just want to be something or have something to be. Many people across the country are choosing and it is enough for now to ask why. That is just one example, which is like fab example.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Even like I was reading that and I was like, it opened up a little door in my brain to be like, what? Why did I choose to go to Howard University as the only school that I applied to out of state? But throughout the book, that is something that you are unafraid of even unmasking within yourself. Why do you take care to understand desire in that way?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
To bring it back to sort of like your criticism, you see that showing up across a lot of the things that you are reading or watching or criticizing?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Coming up, do we need to rethink what we get out of criticism? And what authority do critics really have?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
I loved it. I loved it. That's Andrea Long Chu. Once one of my favorite Sex and the City bloggers, now a Pulitzer Prize winning critic. And you know what? I wasn't surprised by the news of her win in 2023. She lends her critical eye to everything from the TV show Yellowstone to the work of Sally Rooney to pro-Palestinian protests and free speech. And she does it with wit, style, and fearlessness.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
So I want to turn now from your art criticism to your political criticism and your criticism of criticism itself. It's all kind of bound up together. But let's talk about one of the new essays you wrote for this book called Criticism in a Crisis. And you go back into history and look at all the ways there's always some crisis or another in criticism. And there's a lot of hand-wringing.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
I wonder what quote-unquote crisis are we in now? And why has criticism sort of always been in crisis?
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Oh, of course, because critics, like the ones whose writing made it to the papers, those were historically mostly men.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Okay, so one of the things you discuss is that criticism with traditional authority almost always insists upon its own political importance. You write, and I'll paraphrase, we are almost shocked at how often the critics of every age have compared bad criticism to bad citizenship until we remember how often we are told today that criticism prepares us to be global citizens.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
In this regard, criticism has long been an apprenticeship to in thoughtful obedience. Its grand historical function has been to make a world without authority entirely inconceivable. A bar.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Like, if you've ever read Andrea Longchu, you know she is eviscerating people in some of these pages. Andrea is here today because some of her best writing has been collected into a book called Authority. It's a lot of her published essays and two new ones. In this book and our conversation, she has given me so many new ways to look at art, from highbrow literature to lowbrow TV.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
Like, I feel like you're saying that some criticism might even be part of what writer Alex V. Green calls the having conversations industrial complex, where having conversations again and again is all that happens and no political change occurs. Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Who gets to be a critic? And why are some so "bad?"
You know, the thing about authority is that people expect critics to have it, but you don't think critics actually need that kind of authority. Why not?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
And I'll say, you know, being from the Rust Belt and like driving to visit family, you can see, right, that industry has left a lot of these places. I don't think that people are wrong, right, for having the notion that like manufacturing has disappeared. It is a much smaller industry now, but at the end of the day, this is a sector that's still struggling to fill jobs. Why is that?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Please say more about that.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
You know, a lot of what you're touching on right now, the conditions that are really hitting the manufacturing sector, at least in the United States, a lot of those things you touched on in a piece that you recently wrote in Vox called Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back. Why can't they?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Bringing things back to the tariffs. Ultimately, what might these tariffs mean for both the fantasy and the reality of factory work?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
As you just heard, one of the biggest reasons behind the Trump administration's tariffs is to bring more factory jobs back into our country. And in case you don't know this about me, I'm from Metro Detroit. I grew up in the Rust Belt, and I know firsthand how deeply our country feels the loss of a lot of our manufacturing jobs. and how we still dream about ourselves as a manufacturing superpower.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Well, Dylan, Jeffrey, thank you both so much for joining me today. I really enjoyed this conversation.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
That was Dylan Matthews, senior correspondent at Vox and Jeffrey Gonzalez, associate professor at Montclair State University. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. Engineering support came from David Greenberg. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
But what does this dream look like for people on both sides of the aisle? Why does factory work seem so central to our politics? And how does the fantasy of bringing it back stack up against the reality of what manufacturing looks like in our country today?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
That's Dylan Matthews, senior correspondent at Vox. I'm joined by him and Jeffrey Gonzalez, associate professor at Montclair State University in New Jersey.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
So to jump right in, according to one poll from the Cato Institute and YouGov, 80% of Americans want more people working in factories here, but only 25% said they would be better off. if they themselves did in fact work in a factory. Why might Americans like the idea of other people working in factories more than the prospect of working in factories themselves?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
A quick note before we start today's show. You may have heard that President Trump has issued an executive order seeking to block all federal funding to NPR. This is the latest in a series of threats to media organizations across the country. Whatever changes this action brings, NPR's commitment to reporting the news without fear or favor will never change.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Or they already like their jobs or just have different passions. Yeah. But I mean, the lasting legacy of like the idea that a factory job is a good job, it's kind of outlived the actual truth of that situation. Salaries for manufacturing jobs are now in the bottom half of all jobs.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
And one paper by researchers at the Federal Reserve shows that the decline in unionization rates is by and large responsible for the drop in wages for factory work compared to other jobs.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Right. For those who don't know, right-to-work states are states with laws prohibiting mandatory union membership as a condition of employment. And this makes it harder for unions to organize. Also, NAFTA was the trade agreement we made with Canada and Mexico in the 90s to get rid of tariffs.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
I think regardless of whether people might want to work in a factory themselves or not, there is a kind of fantasy about factory work happening in our culture, in our politics right now. It's also happening on both sides of the aisle.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Like there's a romanticization of labor and laborers on the left in kind of like a Marxist way, but also another flavor of that on the right that's more about like self-sufficiency and tradition and strength. So what is being romanticized here? What do people think more American factories can do for us?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
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It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Yeah, I mean, that's kind of wild. It's like this masculinity bypass, basically. You don't have to get your hands dirty, but you can be seen as the kind of guy who appreciates getting his hands dirty. And like that by proxy is enough.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Though it does need to be said that women have long been factory workers along with immigrants and people of color and queer people. Butch lesbians were especially associated with blue collar jobs in the mid-century, which included factory work.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Yeah, that's the United Auto Workers Union, for those who don't know.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Okay, I see the fantasy here, but I'm also curious, how did factory work become sort of woven into American identity in the first place? And why is it still there, even if we don't work in factories as much as we used to?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
And if you already support us via NPR Plus or another means, thank you. Your support means so much to us, now more than ever. You help make NPR shows freely available to everyone. We are proud to do this work for you and with you. Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Totally. And now there's that lingering question of who are we without this pillar of our American identity? I'm also thinking about the national security argument for bringing more factories back. Vice President J.D. Vance has talked about this.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
But I also question whether we'd even need to, as we already have over 3,000 nuclear warheads currently stockpiled. Say what you will about the American military, but I'm not sure any of the three of us would argue that it's been under-resourced, right? But there's still an idea here that not having as many factories makes us weaker from a national security standpoint.
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
Yeah. Coming up, what does manufacturing actually look like in the U.S.? And could the tariffs help bring more factory jobs back?
It's Been a Minute
The fantasy vs. reality of Trump's "smokestack nostalgia"
I want to talk more about the reality of factory work in the U.S. These jobs, by the way, they already exist. As of February, there are 400,000 open positions in manufacturing. I've seen reports that some factory owners are desperate for more workers. I think that might be surprising. There's an image, I think, that people have of manufacturing as up and leaving completely.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
As someone who was a young person in the early 2000s, I remember campaigns telling people how harmful the word is.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
And why we should be more aware of the way it can hurt our most vulnerable populations. But it's more than that.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Ableism isn't just found in our language. It's found in our policies and systems as well. And when disability or the implication of a disability is attached to someone or a group of people, the consequences can be dire.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
I mean, you know, there's a case to be made that the way we use and wield language, that can be the butterfly wings that turns into the tsunami of like, you know, free Britney.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Today, Imani joins me to get into how she thinks ableism has shaped our political and legal landscape and why the R word is just the tip of the iceberg.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
So to describe people who were unable or who were deemed unable to take care of themselves, idiot was one of the words used.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
For listeners, Buck v. Bell was a 1927 Supreme Court case that upheld, quote, a state's right to forcibly sterilize a person considered unfit to procreate, which included those who they deemed, quote unquote, mentally deficient.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
When we were preparing for this conversation, as we've been looking into the increased usage of the R word, I came across this concept called the euphemism treadmill. It was introduced by this researcher and scholar named Steven Pinker in a 1994 New York Times op-ed. And I will say, he seemed to have a somewhat cynical view of the utility of the euphemism treadmill.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Basically, the R word used to be a part of I believe like medical terminology, a diagnosis. Yes, it was. And then it gets that negative connotation, almost like because of our society's attitudes about disability, then the word becomes an insult. It becomes tarnished.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
But what he talks about with the euphemism treadmill is that eventually it becomes an insult and then it becomes unspeakable and then it's banished from polite conversation. What feels notable with the R word is that It seems to be running backward on the euphemism treadmill. I can't think of many other words coming back.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
More on how disability, racism, and whiteness are intertwined. I wonder, do you see it as a part of a wave of mainstreaming of offensive language or gestures more broadly? Like I'm thinking about Kanye West and the way that people talk about Kanye West's mental illicit diagnosis. I don't know all the details of his medical history, but...
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
When he says things that are anti-Semitic or deeply misogynistic or racist and anti-Black, people will be like, oh, this is a part of his diagnoses. On one hand, as you've described, I can think of a bunch of examples of disability being used as a reason why someone should not be believed or shouldn't be able to make decisions on their own. But
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Much like FX's English teacher, I've noticed an uptick in a term I thought was long gone, at least in polite conversation. The R-word.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
It seems like there are people who are willing to use disability as a means of making an excuse for behavior that many people see as racist or antisemitic.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
I have seen that sentiment online a lot. What that kind of presupposes then is that racism is something that can't be helped, can't be fixed. It's like something of nature as opposed to of society.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
That also makes me think back to something that I had seen in a New York magazine piece written by Brock Collier about the new sort of young conservative or Republican people who are excited about Trump's second presidency.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Something that came up in that piece that I also have seen elsewhere online is people wanting to feel like they can say the R word specifically and have that be okay or do it without guilt. Many people feel or see a power in that. Some people listening to this might think, at the end of the day, These are just words. So what's the big deal? What would you say to them?
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Disability advocate and content creator Imani Barbarin, a.k.a. Crutches and Spice on TikTok. Thank you so much for having me. Noticed this a few years ago.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
Well, Imani, I really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation with me today. I learned so much. Thank you so much.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
That was disability advocate Imani Barbarin. You can find her on TikTok at Crutches and Spice. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Patak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right.
It's Been a Minute
The R-word is back. But why?
That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
There's going to be people listening to this conversation who think that this has nothing to do with them, that they as American born citizens with American born parents don't have to think or worry about birthright citizenship or increased ICE arrests. What would you say to them?
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Hmm. Jasmine, Ximena, I really appreciate you coming on the show and talking with us about this. This was great. Thank you. Thank you. That was NPR immigration correspondent Jasmine Garst and Homeland Security Department and immigration policy reporter Ximena Bustillo. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
an executive order aimed at changing who gets birthright citizenship. Now, birthright citizenship is protected by the Constitution and guarantees U.S. citizenship to any child born on U.S. soil, with the exception of very specific groups like, say, the children of foreign diplomats.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
It dates back to the period after the Civil War, when the 14th Amendment was revised to include all persons born or naturalized in the United States. It granted citizenship to newly emancipated Black Americans. And since then, it's changed the face of our nation.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
There have been several attempts to challenge the rule. In fact, this isn't even the first time President Trump has tried to roll it back.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
And even though a federal judge has already blocked President Trump's order, getting the order to stand might not have been the point at all.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
My guests, NPR's immigration correspondent, Jasmine Garst. Hi. And NPR's Homeland Security Department and immigration policy reporter, Ximena Bustillo.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Are here to break down what the battle for birthright says about our nation and who is already cashing in.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
The racial dynamics of this are hard to ignore. When I think about the popularity of like the white replacement theory, you know, this idea that there is a plot to, quote, replace white Americans with people of color. I mean, this used to be a fringe alt-right theory, but we've seen members of the GOP embrace elements of the, you know, white replacement theory.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
I don't know, when I look at like the context in which all of these ICE arrests and this birthright citizenship discourse is happening, it's very difficult not to see some kind of connection there.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
If it were to happen, what's the administration plan to replace birthright citizenship with?
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
There are so many other ways in which, as you say, that fear can keep someone's head bowed. It can also keep someone from being able to provide safely and consistently for their families. But it also can keep people from perhaps pushing for other causes that are important to them that they see as a matter of equitable treatment, that they see as a matter of civil or human rights as well.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
I'm just absorbing what you just said.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
The Obama years. How the Democrats disenchanted a generation of voters and prepared them for Trump 2.0.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Regardless of whether birthright citizenship is abolished or not, a lot stands to accelerate in terms of America's immigration enforcement in the coming months. I wonder what industries are profiting from America's immigration crackdown and which ones might stand to profit in the future. Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
I'm just absorbing what you just said.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Yes, you heard that right. Dr. Phil was in Chicago interviewing someone who was actively being arrested by ICE. This was a part of a ride-along operation with Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, amidst the president's much-promised crackdown on immigration.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Right. Biden's secretary of Homeland Security.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
We've discussed this big moment in messaging from Trump and his administration and the Republican Party around cracking down on immigration. But this is something that Democrats also have done as well. I mean, some people even have even referred to Obama as the deporter in chief.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
I feel like I'm seeing a lot of comparison between how Trump is handling things and how Biden has handled things with the assumption that Trump has deported more people or detained more people than Obama or Biden has handled.
It's Been a Minute
On immigration, "what if fear is the message?"
Now, there's been so much action in the president's first few days in office, it's been hard to keep up with the flurry of executive orders he's signed. But there was one in particular that set off alarm bells that could fundamentally change the definition of who's American.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
My gosh. I mean, I had anticipated that the demand for secondhand items could go up, but I hadn't even thought that there could be a possibility that the demand for them may go down. I wonder who are secondhand shoppers or like, is it a niche market or... Is this group going? I know that there's a variety of motivations for why people shop secondhand. Some people, it's cost.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
According to McKinsey & Company, from 2000 to 2014, clothing production doubled, and the number of garments purchased per capita increased by about 60%. That's in part due to the rise of fast fashion. And now, some consumers are seeing the fallout of that.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Some people, it's preference. Some people, it's sustainability or looking for something specific. Some people are like vintage collectors. But I wonder, like, I don't know, who makes up this group? Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
They weren't just there to like to hang out. They weren't just there to see what was around.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Wow, wow. I wonder, you know, when people can't afford either vintage or secondhand higher quality goods or the kinds of goods that you want to purchase, maybe that you can hold on to them for a little while because they are, you know, made pretty well. Yeah. Will they eventually turn back to the Sheehan hauls, you know, that we've seen before? Like, is this a cycle that we've seen before? Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Gosh, Waylon, thank you so much for coming on. It was so great to talk to you. I learned so much.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
That was Waylon Wong from NPR's The Indicator. And thanks again to Veronique Hyland. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Patak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
At the time of our chat, we wondered if the shift would stick in the post-New Year's resolution shuffle. It's no secret that Americans are deeply concerned about the economy, and there are numerous concerns about what fast fashion is doing to the environment. But that hasn't stopped the rise of places like Shein or Taimou.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
However, there's one other piece of the puzzle that may influence the way we buy.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
I chatted with Veronique in January, right before President Trump took office. And since then, we've seen that Trump has decided to go forward with imposing tariffs on goods from Canada, Mexico, and China. So now you might be wondering, what does that have to do with underconsumption? Actually, what does that have to do with fashion at all? Well, everything.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
That's NPR's very own Waylon Wong from The Indicator. I want to make sure everyone's clear. A tariff is a tax that American businesses or consumers pay on imported goods from overseas. So as tariffs on goods from China or Mexico go up, our prices go up. But then you have to ask, if our prices are going to go up, why is the Trump administration doing this in the first place?
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
So that made me wonder, how is fashion, especially fast fashion, going to hold up during this turbulent time?
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Or will the overwhelming effect of tariffs cause shoppers to cut their losses and follow the under-consumption model of thrifting, mending, and secondhand fines?
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Today on the show, Waylon helps break down how tariffs will affect Americans and what these taxes can reveal about who's actually footing the bills in this country.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Two or three months ago, I went into my closet to do my routine purge. Attempted it and failed many times. But this last time, it actually worked.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
So perhaps moving your production center out of China, out of Mexico, out of Canada.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Jeez. I mean, I imagine it's less complicated for a much larger company to make a big change like that than perhaps a smaller one.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Geez, geez. Okay. You know, and something else that matters is also where the goods are from. For this episode, we also spoke with fashion law professor and author Susan Scafidi, who gave us an example, thinking about, let's say, for example, designer shoes from Italy.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
they would be subject to a lesser tariff than, say, an everyday household item that a middle or working class parent might pick up on Amazon or at Walmart that's made in China. Is this another way of widening the gap between the haves and the have-nots if you're thinking about who's tending to buy luxury goods that are from
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
You know, these countries that are not currently being tariffed versus who may not have the wiggle room to be able to seek out products that aren't from these now heavily tariffed countries.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Okay, okay. So back to President Trump. When he was reelected, there was already some preparation from the fashion industry in anticipation of the tariffs that he may propose. Now that we're here, right, the tariffs are in effect. How have fashion retailers, particularly in fast fashion, reacted to this?
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
That is Veronique Hyland. Thank you for having me. Fashion features director at Elle and author of Dress Code, unlocking fashion from the new look to millennial pink. She's followed online fashion trends from Mob Wives to Vera Bradley's TikTok revival. And after watching Emma Chamberlain's closet clean out, she noticed the latest shift in online fashion. Under consumption.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
How tariffs could affect the secondhand market.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
So I wonder, like, is there a world in which these tariffs affect the way that fast fashion has been able to develop in the past few years?
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
But the thing about these tariffs, though, is that they're not applied equally to all goods. In researching for this episode, our producer Alexis found that this depends on lots of things. Like, for instance, gender. In the US, as far as we know, the US is the only country that has gender-based tariffs on clothing, meaning women's wear has higher tariffs than men's wear.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
Gosh, gosh. Okay, so that makes me wonder, though, how the secondhand and vintage reseller market will be affected by these tariffs. The resale market has been hot for years.
It's Been a Minute
Fast fashion vs. Trump: why women may pay more in the tariff wars
And if there's this idea that consumers are moving toward more sustainable practices, or even just this idea that consumers need to perhaps save money for other reasons, I wonder how the secondhand market will adjust to all of this.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Maybe you've heard, maybe you haven't, but I'm here to tell you I have a New Year's present for all of you. Starting this week, I'm bringing It's Been a Minute to you three times a week. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, you'll be getting the freshest, deepest takes on what's going on in culture. That's my present to you. I hope your present to me is tuning in. Starting right now.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
These seminal rom-coms are all the brain children of journalist, director, and screenwriter Nora Ephron. Whose work behind the scenes has paved the way for some of our most beloved romantic comedies. But even though Nora's impact is felt far beyond the screen, her legacy is rarely mentioned alongside her contemporaries. That's why today I'm sitting down with writer and author Ilana Kaplan.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
She wrote Nora Ephron at the Movies, a look at Nora's life, legacy, and why her work still rings true when the clock strikes 12. Ilana, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Thanks for having me. Our pleasure. Our pleasure. Especially to talk about the topic we're going to talk about today. This is exactly the kind of warm, cozy chat that I want to have at this time of year. So I want to take it back.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
to When Harry Met Sally. You say that film revived the modern rom-com. Tell us how.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
I didn't even think about that, like not even dressed casually.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Nora wrote and directed women through the female gaze. And so they were these flawed human beings. They were these flawed messes. I mean, I think about that original scene in When Harry Met Sally. Yeah. And Harry and Sally eat at this diner because they're on this road trip. And Sally's ordering this slice of pie.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Not even the pie? because these female characters get loved despite all of their flaws, like we all hope to be, I think that that also is something that viewers get really attached to.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Happy New Year, my friends. There are so many ways to celebrate the new year. Watching the ball drop with friends, popping champagne. But there's one tradition that stands above them all.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
I also think about, as you described earlier in our conversation and in your book, the How her characters were, if not tough, they were cosmopolitan and somewhat streetwise in terms of dating. They didn't turn away from frank talk about sex. Different scenes throughout her other rom-coms as well, where women are talking frankly, not just with men, but with each other about sex.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
The experiences that they've had with men, the experiences they've had with dating, becoming a little jaded over time. These women were ambitious and smart, and they were the opposite kind of of that lovestruck, virginal woman character from rom-coms of the past.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Talk to me about the impact of Nora's turning away from that kind of dichotomy of the very experienced man who is falling in love with this virginal lamb of a woman.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Well, how else do you think you'd do it? I've got the perfect guy. I don't happen to find him attractive, but you might. She doesn't have a problem with chins.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
You know, you also said that with her romantic comedies, Nora didn't just reinvigorate the genre. She also reinvigorated the film market as well. And in your book, you say that she alone is at least partially responsible for the rom-com boom of the 1990s and 2000s. And that's like a golden era that a lot of people talk about wanting to go back to.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Talk to me about why you say that Nora is responsible for kind of stoking that market.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Oh, Richard Curtis, like, for Weddings and a Funeral?
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
He wanted to follow in her—I mean, I'm not surprised by that, but I didn't realize that time-wise that's how that worked out.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Coming up, I continue my conversation with Alana about Nora Ephron's legacy and how her influence shows up in the modern romantic comedies we know and love today.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
I wonder, where do you see Nora Ephron's influence in either films or TV shows of today?
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Oh, who wrote the book version of To All the Boys I've Loved Before, Love Her.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
You kind of like the writing letters back and forth, or I guess in Lara Jean's case. The letters got sent. I don't think people necessarily wrote back. Writing letters back and forth, like in You've Got Mail or as you mentioned, like in Sleepist in Seattle, that kind of like almost message in a bottle way of communicating where you're kind of waiting a fortnight to hear from somebody.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
There's something very romantic and kind of timeless about that. I feel like every single fall I open up my social media accounts online. whether it's on Instagram, whether it's on TikTok, whether it's on Twitter. And I see screenshots from When Harry Met Sally or from You've Got Mail as, like, fall inspo.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Why do you think it is that these movies are still so endlessly memeable, that they are so sticky on social media?
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Lord, Nancy, don't get me started on Nancy Meyers. I'll be here all day. I'll be here all day. You know, when we're talking about rom-com queens, she's up there in the conversation with Nora Ephron, even though she also is somebody who probably was inspired by Nora Ephron. But Nancy Meyers is somebody who, like, consistently brings people into the theater. Private Benjamin, Baby Boom...
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Something's Gotta Give, and The Parent Trap. Oh my gosh, how did I forget the ones? The best movie of all time. But Nora, along with Nancy, is one of the rare female filmmakers whose legacy actually gets... She's had a huge impact on our culture and on our lexicon.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Why do you think Nora is only one of the few female directors who's actually been able to cut through and have a legacy that has been maintained over time?
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
For years, rom-com fans have set their New Year's Eve countdown to the runtime of When Harry Met Sally. So they ring in the year just at the point Billy Crystal's Harry declares his love for Meg Ryan's Sally. But if you're a true rom-com fan, like me, you know that When Harry Met Sally is just the starter. You gotta watch the whole trilogy. Sleepless in Seattle.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
Oh, give me an example of what you mean when you say the same kinds of praise.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
You can see Nora Ephron's influence everywhere. These days, romance is taken a lot more seriously than it was in the past as a genre of entertainment. And there's always been this historical discounting of romance as a genre because people think it's frivolous or silly or unserious, even though a rom-com, Anyone But You, performed huge globally.
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
How do you think we'd look at Nora Ephron differently if she had redefined some other genre instead?
It's Been a Minute
All hail the queen of rom-coms
I love that movie so much. Well, Alana, thank you so much for coming on and talk with me about a woman we both love so much. Thank you so much for having me. That was Alana Kaplan, writer and author of Nora Ephron at the Movies. The book is available now. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Barton Girdwood Alexis Williams Liam McBain Corey Antonio-Rose
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Wow. So you heard it here first, basically. Josh said if you're getting the ick, it's on you. That's a you problem. That was Josh Rotman. He's a professor of psychology at Franklin and Marshall College and a researcher of cognition and emotion.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
And so to all of you listening, we started this segment with the question, is the ick about your date or is it about you? I feel confident now in saying that it's mostly about you and me. But to close out, I want to pose a new question for all of us to chew on. If the ick is about us, what are we going to do about it?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Let us all know how you've gotten over the ick by commenting on this episode in Spotify or leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. I can't wait to hear your advice. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Jasmine Romero. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. And a shout out to NPR's Corey Antonio Rose and B.A.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Parker for their thoughts on the ick. I'm your host, Brittany Luce. Talk soon, y'all.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
I've got the ick. The ick. Cringe. I mean, the slang that Love Island has made pop in the United States. What a powerful show. But I digress. What exactly is the ick? Here's how B.A. Parker, co-host of NPR's Code Switch, and It's Been a Minute producer Corey Antonio Rose explain it.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
I think of it as this disgust response to something that's mostly innocuous, but might give us pause with someone we're dating. But I wanted to hear about the ick from the people. So I went out on the streets of New York City to hear some of your icks. Have you ever gotten the ick?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
What? I got one. Plumber's crack is a little not... You know what?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Literally, why are you tripping?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
So you get it, right? The ick is something that's not really wrong or bad per se, but it's this tiny bit of disgust that you just can't look past or get over. And it's based solely on your own preferences. And since it's so individual, that has me, Parker, and Corey Antonio wondering, is the ick about your date or is it about you? And to answer that question, we're going to play a little game.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. What is the most notable time you got the ick? Someone's laugh was a bit too much.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Okay, okay, so we're going to play a little bit of a game. I've got some anecdotes here about people getting the ick, and you're going to rule on whether it's icky, like someone really was acting icky, or tricky, like the person submitting actually just didn't like the other person like that, and is just playing a trick on themselves.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Icky means it's them. Tricky means it's you. Okay.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
From a friend of the show. I once dated someone who inserted meow into words, i.e. I'm coming over right meow or that's a meowsing. And she did it all the time. I think I lasted a month and a half. What do y'all think about that?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
I think it's icky. I'm sorry, Corianton. You could deal with a man where you text him and you're just like, hey, what's up? How are you doing today? And he's like, I'm meowsing. You would like that?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Okay. Corey Antonio says we need more context. Interesting perspective. Okay. All right. We got another one from the Reddit page r slash women over 30. This one woman over 30 said, I dated this guy for a few months. He was a nice person, decent boyfriend, tall and nice looking. One day we were making out. We both paused for a second and he looked at me and said, very nice in a Borat voice.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
I knew at that moment that it was over for me. LOL. Shut it down. Corrie and Tony, you're shaking your head. You have a hand covering your mouth and shaking your head.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
So a meow is a little festive, but a Borat voice is out of the question. Time and place. Time and place. Okay. Time and place. Time and place. Okay. So here's one from an article about queer women and their icks from Vice. One person says, I was dating this girl and she kept describing things as artsy. Like she's so artsy. And you're more of an artsy type and artsy skirt.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
It just made me irrationally repulsed. What do y'all think?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
I think when I first heard this, I was like, oh, icky. But you know what? The more I think about it, I think it's tricky because I think it's one of those things that if you really liked someone, you would think it was the cutest thing in the world that they called everything artsy. Like you would just think it was so adorable and so sweet and you would find it to be one of their cute little isms.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Let's find some new words. Mama, let's research. Let's expand. Let's expand. So yes, talking about the ick, thinking about the ick, and laughing about the ick is all fun and games, but there's this psychological thesis that all emotions from fear to disgust were evolutionarily advantageous traits, but are they serving us now?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Later, one professor of psychology explains why the ick is actually very bad for all of us. We'll be right back.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
What did it sound like? Just for the listener to understand. It was like a... Now you're giving me the ick. It has caught like a yawn. It wasn't great. Did you hear that? It's the sound of cuffing season. The time of year where the weather cools down and folks look for a warm body to cuddle up with. But we're getting into some of the less warm and fuzzy aspects of dating.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
So what do each of you think is the purpose of the ick?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
No, I'll tell you what. I think a lot of us struggle with wrapping it up when we see a red flag.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Some of us have sat in with a red flag for a little too long. For a couple years at times.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
I don't know. I think it could be kind of a mix also. Like maybe an ick from one person is not a problem on someone that's really right for you. Like, for example, there was this one guy that I was dating that I got the ick with. I still remember the day. It was the Saturday night before Easter, 2006. Oh my gosh. Because I saw him in his house shoes and I was...
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
disgusted i don't know what it was i was just like oh like i mean i think about it still to this day he was a little bit too at home in front of you is what it sounds a little bit too at home oh but you know what though the thing is is that my husband wears he's like mr slipper i think it's so cute when he wears his slippers he wears his slippers i'm just like oh i love it i don't know it's like it depends on the person depends on the context
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Also, though, I think sometimes – I think there are ways in which, though, it can be kind of aligned with isms. Like on – let's take it back to Reddit. Like on the r slash AskMen Reddit page, there are a lot of entries about their ics being acrylics, like acrylic nails or vocal fry or liking astrology stuff.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Right. But also I saw a woman on TikTok saying that she got the ick because a guy she was on a date with knew more about her lip gloss than she did. Does the ick also sometimes reinforce structural social disgust?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Preference. That word comes up a lot in dating. These personal lists of what you want or don't want in a partner. And while you may think that your preferences are personal tastes, you'd be wrong. Your preferences are as influenced by socialization as your taste buds.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
To dig into this part of the ick, the disgust for things you prefer not to have around, I called up professor of psychology, Josh Rotman. He studies the psychological development of disgust in early childhood.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Now, this question of where disgust comes from has been hotly debated in psychology. Freud theorized that it was a way for humans to differentiate themselves from animals. We got grossed out by other animals and their behaviors as a way to be more evolved. Other theorists thought it evolutionarily developed as a way for us to avoid bacteria, like the smell of bad meat.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
It smells disgusting, so we don't eat it. But Josh has a different theory. That disgust wasn't just a biological development, but a social one too.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Right, it keeps them from licking things in public. Yeah, exactly. Touching things that are gross, yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Does it serve us or hinder us, like with people that we're dating? Is this something that helps us or does it harm us? Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
we're kicking off cuffing season with some of the big questions and big debates about dating. This week, we're getting into one of the common reasons people stop dating someone. It's a little term first used by the 90s TV show Ally McBeal, and then it really took off a couple of years ago on the reality show Love Island. I'm talking about the ink. I say, can I eat?
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
When we were looking for icks to discuss in this episode, some that were unearthed were Millie Bobby Brown, the young actress. She said that one of her icks was men holding umbrellas because she said it was pathetic.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
Another woman we talked to in the street said she found tripping, like a man tripping and falling, to be an ick.
It's Been a Minute
Your date gave you 'The Ick?' That might be a YOU problem.
But it sounds like you're saying more often than not, like, revulsion at those types of things is bad for us.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
That is a good point. And that hat. Because that hat is actually too big to sit next to her in a car. So did the hat have its own car? I don't know. Did she have to lay the seat all the way back? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, category number two, size matters. Who deserves the award for the look that emphasized the biggest or the littlest looks of them all?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
So who was wearing something real tiny or something very big and grand?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Okay, I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. Antoine, though. We're going to start with you. Who wore it best and why?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
It was gigantic. I loved it. I loved it. What about you, Shelton? The biggest or the littlest?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Before y'all go, though, Antoine, I know yesterday you toured the Black Dandyism exhibition at the Met. And I'm curious, what from the exhibition that connects this moment in fashion all the way back to the first Black people in America, what is going to stick with you in the weeks and months ahead?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Antoine Shelton. Thank you both so much for joining me today.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
That was culture writer Shelton Boyd Griffith and the editor-in-chief of Black Fashion Fair, Antoine Gregory. And please, please, please let me know your favorite looks of the night in the comments on this episode. I am dying to hear what you all think too. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams, Liam McBain, Corey Bridges, This episode was edited by Nina Potok.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Oh yeah, she was wearing like a custom design that she co-designed with herself and the famed costume designer, Ruth E. Carter.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Hello. Okay, Shelton and Antoine, you both saw it all. The Met Gala 2025. Were you gooped? Were you gagged? How are you feeling?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I agree. I totally love it. Okay. So who is your best dressed man?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Across the board, Grace Wales Bonner dressed so many people across the board in incredible, incredible ways. I mean, FKA Twigs had this gorgeous flapper-like 20s dress that was totally different than what Lewis Hamilton was wearing. That beautiful, crisp, white suit with the cowrie shell details and all that incredible jewelry and that beautiful hat.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Just across the board, shout out Grace Willis Bonner. You really did it. You really did have a fight.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Dressing Monica Miller. The Monica Miller.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
That was really special.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Okay. Okay. And Shelton, was Antoine right? Who would you say were the best dressed man and woman of the evening?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Oh my gosh. And that beautiful, big structured coat.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Andre Leontali, for those who don't know, worked at Vogue from 1983 to 2013 and eventually became an editor at large for the magazine.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
The outfit felt like something that was very true to her kind of idiosyncratic style. It didn't feel like she was trying to wear an Andre Leon Talley costume. And then, I mean, you know, I watched the red carpet interviews. I saw some people who were like, I'm wearing a white button down and this is a tribute to Andre Leon Talley. And I'm like, girl, I guess so. Yeah. You know, anything can be.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Stretching the references. Stretching the references.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Exactly. Exactly. All right. And Shelton, who was your best dressed man?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Sourced from eBay, right?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Seeing Rosalia, I mean, you described her as a mannequin. I mean, that dress was smooth like porcelain. I don't know how she got there. I don't know how she...
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
enjoyed the evening i don't know how she got home i don't know how she got into the dress but it was like a smooth like it was like perfectly sculpted to her body this long white column perfectly sculpted there was some draping around the hips and further down the dress but i mean the bodice of that was like it was the perfect mannequin um well You know, I did love these looks, but I'm sorry.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I just got to stay. I have to say my piece. I have to say my piece. Oh, Lord. So my best dressed man was Guillaume Jope in Custom Valentino by Ali Santos. I, this, this outfit was so gorgeous. First of all, it was like a beautiful white pant, white shirt underneath, a yellow, like mustard yellow, golden rod maybe even.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Like golden rod with ruby piping, gold button, maybe not gold buttons, but golden rod jacket, ruby piping, double breasted. The most gorgeous coat. I'm like, literally, a part of me, I don't want to commit crimes, but a part of me, I had waited outside of the Met, driven my car up there, waited outside of the Met, and been like, you need to give me this jacket. I'll fight you.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I felt like a lot of the best looks from the men of the night were from men who fully embraced both the sense of humor and also the... Lack of a rigid approach to masculinity.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
My best-dressed pick for a woman was Lauryn Hill, Butter Yellow, Chaney Chan. Very amazing. But we got to move on, okay? So we already touched on this. A little bit. Let's be clear. Every year, every year the Met Gala has a theme and that theme is attached to the Costume Institute's exhibition, which this year is called Superfine Tailoring Black Style.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
That means celebrities and designers were encouraged to style looks for the Met Gala inspired by the black fashion tradition known as black dandyism. Black dandyism is about fine tailoring with flair or exuberance added to it. You know, sometimes feathers or hats or exaggerated finishes and accessories.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
But this was also the very first Met Gala theme that honored a specifically black fashion tradition. Which makes me wonder, y'all have seen just as many, if not more Met Galas than I have. Overall, did a Black theme mean that this was like the Blackest Met Gala ever? I mean, because Black people come every single year and show up and show out.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I wonder, was there anything markedly different about this event than from past events? Other than... Aside from Stevie Wonder performing, which not everybody in that room deserved, but I know that I did.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Wait, say more about that. I want to hear from y'all on this.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
In my mind, I would have thought that when you're talking about tailoring Black style, like I saw Thames wearing Oswald Boateng, but I would have thought he would have been somebody as like, you know, one of the only... black tailors ever on Savile Row. I thought he would have been somebody who would have been a featured talent.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
So what you all listening can't see right now. Is it laying out in front of me or all of my notes from the Met Gala last night? It's only been like 12 hours since fashion's biggest night. And I have just been dying to talk about who had the best and worst looks of the night. Thank God, culture writer Shelton Boyd Griffith is back here with me. Hi, Shelton.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I also want to note that one of our listeners, PL McGee, reached out wanting to know more of your thoughts on how queerness showed up. As you both pointed out in our last episode, dandyism is intimately connected to queerness. And I wonder how you did or did not see queerness on display last night.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Oh, Jeremy's outfit.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Like, there was obviously a lot of, like, uptown pimp references.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
As somebody who has... Seen in Uptown Pimp or two, like the outfit felt very, a lot of the details of the outfit felt very faithful. But also too, there was a little bit of throwback kind of stud aesthetic to it. Kind of like queer references across time. All right. Shelton, Antoine, we come to a point. We got to be honest. Who was the worst dressed of the night? Okay. I have one answer.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Coming up, the moment you've all been waiting for, the worst dressed of the night. We're calling it how it is and awarding special prizes after a quick break.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
All right, Shelton, Antoine, we come to a point. We got to be honest. Who was the worst dressed of the night, okay?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
That actually wasn't one of my worst. That was definitely my most boring list. I had a separate list of people where I was like, okay, I guess you came. I guess you came. You showed up. What about you, Antoine? Who was your absolute worst dressed?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
And the editor-in-chief for Black Fashion Fair, Antoine Gregory. Welcome back, Antoine.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I was disappointed in the blue cape because I was like... At first I saw it and I was like, okay, like I definitely get the Othello reference. It also, even the top of like the detail of like the blue cape, the top detail was like this metallic that had all this texture. I was like, okay, this is kind of reminding me of like the costumes that like the... New Orleans Mardi Gras Indians wear.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I was like, okay, I kind of see this. But, but, but, but I was expecting to see something underneath the cape. It felt like an afterthought to me because I was expecting to see something underneath the cape that matched the cape. So it would feel like this, you know, I mean, a big part, at least I'm from, I'm from the Detroit area. A big part of black style there is matching.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
This is a dream team right here. Okay, I can't wait any longer. Who did it? Who was your best dressed of the night? And before you start listing off, multiple people. Okay, I'm going to be vicious. You can only pick one.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
We love a matchy matchy match. Like going to Howard for the first time and realizing that not everybody would wear. Like matching colors head to toe. I was in shock because it's so important where I'm from. Yeah, I was expecting at least under the blue cape that I didn't expect to see this black and white suit. And I was a little, I felt a little down by the fact that there was no coordination.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Now, see, I want to talk about Pharrell right now. Very safe. I want to talk about Pharrell right now. Because when I talk about my worst dress, it's actually not Pharrell. Although, Pharrell is responsible for my worst dress.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I'm looking at my worst dress like, girl. But also, I'm looking at Pharrell like, girl. It's Lisa Manoval. Lisa from Blackpink. La Lisa. Oh. Custom Louis Vuitton. Now, when I first saw the look, I thought, okay, it's like, it's whatever. It's kind of dry. Like, it's like an embroidered, like sparkly, spangly blazer. And some LV tights.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Why none of the women that Pharrell dressed had on pants, could wear a full pant? To me, I'm like, that's a tailoring issue. Because what do you mean you told Sabrina Carpenter she can't have pants for her outfit? Because she's short. She's short. What does that even mean? But the panties, I got to talk about Lisa Manoval's panties because she said she wanted to be a tribute to black women.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
Why? Okay. So the tribute and Pharrell allowed this to happen. Okay. The tribute was the faces of black women embroidered into the panties. Why is Rosa Parks face embroidered on your panties? Okay. What's going on? What's going on?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
So, you know, Pharrell, listen. I don't know what's going on over there. I don't know. Maybe you're not in charge of the quality control. I don't know what happened. All right. Now, I have a couple more imaginary trophies to give out. We have two categories. Y'all just shout out who you think deserves them. Category number one. oh my God, how did she get in that car?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
This is the award for the look that seemed humanly impossible. Like, how did this person get to the Met Gala? Because I don't see how they were able to sit down or fit their outfit inside of a car.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala: the indisputable best & worst looks of the night
I mean, that was like a 30-foot train. Yeah, I was like, how did that fit? How? That, I definitely see that. What about you, Shelton?
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
All right, y'all. I promised that I had a big announcement and I'm delivering on it. This is my New Year's gift to you. Starting today, I'm bringing you It's Been a Minute three times a week. That's right. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, you'll have new episodes of It's Been a Minute right here in your feed. Starting right now. Hello, hello.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
I appreciate so much you both coming on today. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks again to TV critics Roxanna Haddadi and Ingu Kang. You can find Ingu's work in The New Yorker and Roxanna's at Vulture.com. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Barton Girdwood, Alexis Williams, Corey Antonio-Rose. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Engineering support came from Becky Brown. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
And one of the main characters, my girl Yasmin, oh my gosh, she is pretty, she is charming, but she's not the best at her job. But we still love her, okay? In one episode, after an argument on a yacht with her super rich father, he dies under mysterious circumstances. And I wouldn't say she's sad about it. That would be impossible because I killed him. It is brutal out here for the dads.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
And then there's the bear on FX. This season, Carmi finally stands up to his old boss and mentor, Chef David Fields.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
And of course, there is the corporate daddy of all corporate daddies, Logan Roy, the billionaire mogul from HBO's Succession, who had to choose which one of his kids would take over the family's media empire. The whole show is literally built on the premise that dad has got to go.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
All of these shows are giving Oedipus on steroids. In order for the children characters to progress to the next stage of their destiny, they had to kill or cut down the father figures in their lives. And across even more shows, everyone from biological fathers to metaphorical fathers are getting the chop.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Today, Roxanna, Ingo, and I are talking about what historians see as one of the oldest and most taboo crimes across history, patricide, and what this TV trend says about how we think about our own real-life patriarchs. Patricide is an age-old crime. So I wonder, why are patricide narratives still so compelling today?
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. So excited to have y'all on today. This is like a dream TV conversation. It really and truly is. So I'm super hyped. Woo! I have assembled the dream team, y'all. I've got Roxanna Haddadi.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
I'm glad you brought up our changing thoughts about how we view family. I mean, because at the same time that many people are considering or going no contact with their parents, specifically their fathers, or many people are litigating their childhoods and wondering like, was that okay? Am I okay? We're seeing people work these thoughts out on screen as well, but...
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Additionally, another thing that's happening in real life is that the role of the father has changed considerably over the past 70 years. I think that might even be informing... why some people are thinking so critically right now about how they really feel about fathers or their fathers. I mean, today, American fathers are much more involved in caregiving than previous generations.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
And fewer fathers are primary breadwinners or solely the disciplinarians of their family. But still, the bad dad, the kind of father who's absent, neglectful, unreliable, or even abusive, remains a constant in our culture. We still, if you think about it, even, you know, looking further back at TV, we are obsessed with these like terrible fathers, like a Don Draper.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Whether we are transfixed by these characters, like Eric Tao on Industry, who is like the worst mentor, like boss, father figure you can imagine.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Did I tell you that you could do that? ! Or a guy like Tony Soprano who is neglectful and also a mob boss. Before we end, is there anything you'd like to discuss? How about the fact that I hate my son? Whether these guys are the heroes or the villains of the story, why are we still so obsessed with awful father figures in the TV we watch?
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
I know it's not lost on me that these shows are happening in the context of intense wage stagnation. And in a time where the younger generation of Americans seems to be sincerely asking if the current power holders have to literally die before the younger generations can build wealth and gain power. How do you think these shows are speaking to that anxiety?
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Roxanna, I'd love to hear from you first on this.
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
She's a TV critic for Vulture Magazine and the New Yorker's Ingu Kang. And we're here to talk about daddy issues. This is the Olympics of patricide. Ha ha ha ha. You thought Oedipus? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 2024 TV is going to do you one better. Because here's the thing.
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Well, keeping it global, I mean, to ask even a bigger question, right? It's already a big question. Like, am I going to end up just like my dad or am I going to end up just like my mom? But a bigger question than that is like, can we really kill the patriarchy? I mean, you know, these characters, they're cutting off or trying to cut off
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
toxicity from their lives through killing their father figures. These characters often end up adopting habits and repeating behaviors that they learn from their father figures. Explosive anger, lying, backstabbing, emotional and verbal abuse, insider trading, or doing dirty business deals. I mean, you know, they get it from their dad, you know?
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Exploiting women, literally. Even if the character who is committing this patricide is a woman, she's still going to take on that same mantle from the daddy figure. It feels to me like these shows are asking an even bigger question, not can any of us really change? Can we really change? But like, can the patriarchy actually die or does it just become a different version of itself?
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
All right, I'm going to take a quick break, but we have so much more to dig into, so stick around. I'll be right back. Can the patriarchy actually die, or does it just become a different version of itself?
It's Been a Minute
Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
When you look at the lists of the best TV shows of the past couple of years, there's a trend that nobody is talking about. A bunch of these shows are offing their patriarchs like the dads are dying. And I will warn you, there are some spoilers ahead. Let's look over at HBO's hit show industry. Its third season was huge this year. People couldn't stop talking about it.
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Oh, yeah. Based off of the graphic novel. Sure.
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Love it. Right. One of the most iconic scenes from Game of Thrones where Tyrion Lannister, after a lifetime of being bullied by his father, finally kills him.
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
Hmm. Hmm. Like it's, it's like this, it's like a, perhaps a satisfying little fantasy, but the actual questions and ideas that we're, that we want to engage with, or maybe that we feel that we need to engage with on a deep level, they're so indigestible.
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Kill your daddies? TV's obsession with patricide
She goes from being the daughter of, you know, the CEO to being the wife of the CEO. Yeah. Yeah. And still continuing to aid and abet all of the things that, you know, whichever evil man is doing. Well, oh my gosh. Roxanna, Ingu, thank you so much for coming on today and talking with me about, I guess, one of the most taboo things that you could show on television.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
I have one last question. What will it take for us to build a healthier culture around body image for young boys and men more broadly?
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
It's like decoupling those skills that they want to gain or the experiences that they want to have from Anything having to do with the body.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Roberto, thank you so much. This was such a great conversation. I learned so much. This was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. That was clinical psychologist and lecturer in psychology at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Roberto Olivardia. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
That's Dr. Roberto Olivardio. He's a clinical psychologist and lecturer in psychology at Harvard Medical School.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
He's worked with a lot of people using steroids in non-medically prescribed ways in order to achieve a certain muscular aesthetic. An aesthetic you'd maybe connect with WWE stars or professional athletes trying to get a leg up on the competition. But according to Roberto, we're seeing a whole new motivation for using steroids.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Negative body image, which can oftentimes lead to body dysmorphia. It's something we're very familiar with when it comes to girls and women, but something that's flown a little under the radar when it comes to boys and men. For many men, body dysmorphia stems from feelings of not having big enough muscles.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Something known more specifically as muscle dysmorphia, which Roberto has pioneered research on. Here's my chat with him to better understand the uptick in steroid use among boys and men and the culture that's contributing to this rise in muscle dysmorphia. So first off, tell me a little more about the people struggling with muscle dysmorphia.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Gosh, I have never dealt with an eating disorder, but I have had the American teenage girl experience. And so I have seen plenty up close and personal throughout the span of my life. And so much of what you're describing is the kinds of behavior that's really common with eating disorders like anorexia or bulimia. Yeah.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
I see. I see. And how does social media play into all of this? I mean, you know, just to come clean myself, I'm always looking at it. And I feel like one of the great pillars that holds it up is people sharing their quote unquote fitness journeys, right? That is like some of the lifeblood of social media.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
And I wonder, where is the line between wanting to maybe be jacked or whatever or having goals for your appearance versus muscle dysmorphia? Where is that?
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
And he's like getting up at 315 and like working out like three times a day. Exactly.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Do you get a sense from your research that like muscle in particular has moments where it's more popular than not? Because, I mean, you've been looking into this for like at this point decades. How have you seen that play out in your work?
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
I know that body modifiers like Ozempic and other semaglutides are getting all of the attention right now, but I want to shine a light on another supplement that people are obsessing over. Steroids.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Wow. That is so interesting. I mean, there seems to be some correlation there between this change in male body ideals that we might see in advertising and then also how men wanted to look in real life.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Okay. All right. They wanted to look like Brad Pitt in that movie.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
It sounds like even if the body ideals change, they're still interested in the steroid use. They just maybe don't want to give the impression that they are using steroids.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Politely roided. That's a good term.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Just like people speculate over whether Ozempic is to blame for their favorite celebrity getting smaller, they're also wondering whether steroids are making their favorite social media influencers bigger.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
Coming back to our current moment. You know, body ideals and beauty standards sometimes have a habit of like following trends, kind of like fashion. I wonder, why do men feel this pressure to have this super jacked appearance right now? Like, what was the tipping point for that?
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
It's like an expansiveness as opposed to a contraction, which it sounds like many men perhaps experienced the expansion of women's rights and roles as a diminishment of their own. Exactly.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
You have said so much with all of this. And I feel like we can't talk about male body ideals without talking about Marvel superheroes. I feel like the kinds of almost like physique unveilings that Marvel films as like a brand does for their stars.
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Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
I think about the transformation of the actor Kamil Nanjiani when he was acting in the Eternals Marvel film, like the before and after that he shared on Instagram. I remember it broke social media. I remember that.
It's Been a Minute
Men have body dysmorphia too. That's why some use this drug.
I think more people probably have familiarity with his like physical transformation than even the film itself. No disrespect. I love the director.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
There's also a lot of power from Silicon Valley behind legalization pushes and new companies that aim to market psychedelics to the public. Maxime, you've been critical of this. You basically said that CEOs of tech companies aren't just trying to insinuate themselves into our lives through tech, but to also guide our spiritual lives through psychedelics. Can you say more about that?
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Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
Right, not him personally, but his venture firm that he runs with his brothers. I'll read the description from the Praxis Nation website really quick. Praxis is, quote, A home for the brave who strive for virtue and wisdom. Our purpose is to restore Western civilization and pursue our ultimate destiny of life among the stars.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
The Praxian way of life is driven by vital energy that seeks transcendence through heroic action and contemplation.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
You know, ultimately, given all that power behind bringing psychedelics to the public, what does the future of psychedelics look like, not just for tech bros and CEOs, but for people who do want to bring them into their own spiritual practices?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
The trips people have on these substances are often described in spiritual terms. And some of these psychedelics have a history of spiritual practice spanning millennia. But there's a new group that's really taking on the psychedelic mantle. Tech bros and CEOs. OpenAI's Sam Altman.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
Gosh, you both have given me so much to think about today. I really appreciate this conversation so much. Thank you both.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
Thanks for having me. That was Maxime Twarundun, PhD candidate at the University of Tokyo, and Emma Goldberg, business reporter at the New York Times. And wow, I am so grateful you made it this far. Yes, you listening right now. It must mean you really like the show, which is awesome because it turns out I really love making it for you. And I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
You can become an even bigger fan of the show by signing up for It's Been a Minute Plus. It supports this show and all of public media. Plus, you get to listen to every episode of the show sponsor-free. There's a link in the description of this episode, or you can go to plus.npr.org slash itsbeenaminute to sign up. And seriously, thanks so much for hanging out with me.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Engineering support came from Robert Rodriguez. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
And Google co-founder Sergey Brin, to name a few. These substances have different shades of legality throughout the U.S., but some of these tech bros are trying to change that by funding startups that might bring psychedelic therapies to the public. So what does it mean that psychedelics are getting championed and sometimes financially backed by the tech elite?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
And how might that affect our culture's relationship to psychedelics as spiritual tools? I'm joined by Maxime Tvarun Dunn, PhD candidate at the University of Tokyo. Happy to be here. And Emma Goldberg, business reporter at The New York Times.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
To find out. Okay, so we are here to talk about psychedelics. How do you see them fitting into a spiritual but not religious practice?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
A warning, this segment contains mentions of drug use. Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. America is a deeply spiritual nation. Over 70% of us say that we feel spiritual in some way. But at the same time, we're also getting less religious.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
Right. A common selling point for ayahuasca, for example, is that it's like 10 years of therapy in one day, that you can get all that processing without all that time. But also, I think more and more psychedelics are being associated with tech bros and CEOs who either do these substances or fund psychedelic startups or both.
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Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
And Emma, you just published an article a couple of months ago about a retreat you went to called The Psychedelic CEO. This feels kind of different to me from the 60s and 70s stereotype of a psychedelics user that I feel like, you know, was associated with progressivism and radicals and free love, you know, etc., etc.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
How did psychedelics go from that kind of association to being like the favorite drug of tech bros and CEOs? Yeah.
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Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
But it's come back around again, it seems.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
But something I'm also thinking about is a thing journalist Jane Hu pointed out to us, which is that the center of the psychedelics counterculture and Silicon Valley are are born out of the same place geographically.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
That's very fair. That's a very fair point. As we're discussing how some business leaders like to use these psychedelics because whether they're going on trips or they're microdosing, maybe they think that it helps them with work. Their spiritual journeys might be parlayed into maximizing shareholder value. Some companies are even trying to offer them to employees as a mental health benefit.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
But I think one of the things that makes me personally somewhat confused is that I have a pretty decent separation between my work and my personal life. I just don't get why doing something that has such a spiritual or personal significance would be introduced into the workplace. Like, I don't know, what's behind the impulse of bringing something
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
When asked to check a box next to their religious affiliation, 28% of Americans check the box labeled none. The nuns, as they're sometimes called, are now the biggest religious group in the United States. And 22% identify as spiritual but not religious, otherwise known as SBNRs. But for SBNRs, what's replacing organized religion? What do they believe?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
that kind of personal or sacred spiritual aspect of your life into your working hours.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
And beer taps and all that, yeah. And no unions.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
Coming up, who gets the cultural cachet of using psychedelics?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
Gosh, you know, some of these psychedelics like ayahuasca and peyote are substances that have historically been used in indigenous spiritual practices. What does it mean that substances like those are getting picked up and popularized by tech bros and CEOs?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
And where does that belief show up in all our lives? Well, on our new series called Losing My Religion, we're going to find out. Today, we're getting into psychedelics. That's an umbrella term that includes LSD, magic mushrooms, peyote, and often ketamine and MDMA too, among others. And more people are taking psychedelics now than ever before. Ever heard the phrase spirit journey?
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
I get the sense that when these guys are doing this, they are optimizing, they're expanding, their minds are getting an edge on the competition.
It's Been a Minute
Why tech bros worship psychedelics (and think you should too)
But when others use some of these substances, you know, and depending on where they might be policed in the United States, or even culturally, I'm not sure that indigenous people engaging in their own practices with these drugs would get the same kind of cachet. I wonder why our psychedelics may be seen as more culturally permissible or even laudable when rich tech bros do them.
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Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
You raise a really good point. I'm curious why specifically like the degree is sometimes a marker of difference as far as feeling isolated. I imagine it's because college for many people is like one of the last opportunities where you are kind of specifically placed in an environment with making friends being one of like the major points of being there.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
New York Times reporter Brian Chen looked into the studies on this, and he found a consensus of researchers agree. There's a very strong correlation between tech use and loneliness. So tech might be part of the problem, but could it also be the solution?
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
I got one last question for you both. How do we get out of loneliness?
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Like they say, the best time to plant a tree was yesterday. The second best time is right now. This was really great. Sam, Wahini, thank you both so much.
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Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Based on my interactions with AI, maybe not for me personally, but there's a crop of new startups looking for all kinds of ways tech could combat loneliness.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Yeah, this was awesome. Thank you. That was Sam Pressler, who studies community and social connection at the University of Virginia's Karsh Institute of Democracy, and Wahini Vara, veteran tech reporter and author of the upcoming book, Searches, Selfhood in the Digital Age. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Nina Potok.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
But are more apps really the answer? To find out, I'm joined by Sam Pressler, who studies community and social connection at the University of Virginia's Karsh Institute of Democracy.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
And Wahini Vara, veteran tech reporter and author of the upcoming book, Searches, Selfhood in the Digital Age.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
To start, I don't think anyone can say for sure that tech creates loneliness, but we do know that they're linked. What are the ways that tech and loneliness kind of go hand in hand?
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Okay, I'm asking chat GPT, can you help me get less lonely? Enter.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
You know, at the same time that we're having this discussion about loneliness in tech and all the ways in which one can sometimes help the other to grow, we're seeing some new startups pop up that are trying to use tech to address, you know, this same issue of loneliness. There's this app called Mino. I'm like so interested in this. It's a mentor-like relationship advice app.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
for humans powered by AI, okay? There's the SoulCycle founder's new venture called Peoplehood, which does guided group conversations. There's Time Left, which matches strangers for dinner. And of course, Bumble for Friends, which is a separate app from their dating app. What do you make of all these tech solutions to what may be at least partially a tech problem?
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
The new startup from the SoulCycle founder, right?
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Right. A month of peoplehood is $165. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
That's a really, really, really excellent point. I've seen some memes floating around about how if someone proposed the idea of a free public library today, they would get laughed out of the building. It's very troubling to think that access to community might become a paywalled thing or something only available to certain classes of people.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Do you relate? Well, you may be lonely, but you're not alone. One third of Americans report feeling lonely at least once a week. And 16% of Americans report feeling lonely all or most of the time.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Yeah. Wahini, you made a really good point in your pre-interview with our producer, Liam. You're so brilliant. What did I say? You said capital is so powerful that while we know there are other ways than investing in tech startups to address issues in our society, there seems to be less money for other kinds of solutions.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
When we come back, do these apps help the people who need it most?
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
So I think to a certain degree, people can... understand the value, or at least they see the utility in getting on dating apps and looking for people to date, right? But also there's so much fatigue from people matching apps like, you know, OkCupid, where admittedly I did find my husband. Congratulations. Success story. But people are tired of them.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Would people even be excited to do the same kind of song and dance to meet friends? Okay, I have a hot take. Okay, I'm ready.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Welcome back to our three-part series, All the Lonely People. We're diving deep into how loneliness shows up in our lives and how our culture shapes it. So we've heard a lot of theories about why we're lonely, but one of the things that kept popping up was technology, how our reliance on our phones and the internet could be pushing us apart.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
And that's a problem. I mean, we talked about the app time left matching strangers up to go out to eat dinner together. And that's one of the problems that that app is having, you know, is people meet and then they leave the app to start their own WhatsApp groups. You know, the founder is trying to keep reconnection in the app.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Thinking about another type of digital companionship, you know, aside from Mino, the mentoring relationship advice, AI powered app for humans, there are also a lot of AI companions out there that are being touted as a possible solution to loneliness. As opposed to, you know, these other companies that are more focused on human to human relationships. And I actually, I tested one out.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
I tested out having an AI boyfriend for a week on the show, which my ultimate... Thought was like, when you have an actual husband, AI boyfriend is lacking. Like I would really need some really compelling conversation to get me to really start cheating for real. The AI cheating was not doing it for me. But there have been some studies that show that. these companions do reduce loneliness.
It's Been a Minute
Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
And we talked to a great journalist about this a couple of years ago. She'd spoken to people who were widowed or who had illnesses that made difficult for them to be intimate with other people. And the AI companions were helpful. But I wonder, are users missing other benefits of human-to-human interaction?
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Lonely? There's an app for that... but should there be?
Yeah, that's the one that I used.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
this remembering your spirit, New Age spirituality, the secret kind of thing, the same kind of stuff that was also espoused by the people that she's platformed, including Marianne Williamson, John of God. I wonder, why is this combination of individual personal responsibility and New Age spirituality so attractive to so many people? And what are the dangers of this line of thinking?
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Hmm. That's really, really interesting. And so it's like because. that way of thinking, whether it's the Puritan work ethic or the Calvinism or prosperity gospel or even Catholic guilt. There are so many different ways in which it shows up throughout. Or even like, you know, like I think about the Black American bootstraps mentality or working twice as hard.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Like there are so many ways in which that uniquely American perspective, the model minority myth, show up across groups, right, across groups in our country. that it makes sense that that unique combination would cut across every single sector of the American audience. That makes so much sense. You know, I wonder, have we seen another figure like Oprah since her time?
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
The impact of The Oprah Winfrey Show cannot be overstated. It was the place to go to talk about any and every hot topic. Celebrity interviews, relationship woes, family trauma. She had it all. Starting from its debut in 1986, The Oprah Winfrey Show was the number one talk show in the country for 24 consecutive seasons.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Kelly, Marsha, this was so much fun. Thank you both so much. My pleasure. Thank you. That was historian and co-host Dr. Kelly Carter-Jackson and professor of Africana Studies, Dr. Marsha Chatelain. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
That influence, also called the Oprah effect, made her no stranger to controversy. In fact, in the 90s, she had an episode about mad cow disease. And after learning about the dangers of infected beef, she declared that she was done eating burgers. After that episode aired, Oprah was sued by the cattle industry, who claimed that her program led to an $11 million loss.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
This is also when Oprah would meet a psychologist by the name of Phil McGraw.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
That is Dr. Marsha Chatelain, professor of Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. After Dr. Phil helped Oprah through her trial, he eventually joined her show as a sort of no-nonsense self-help expert. And that led to his own Oprah-produced show called Dr. Phil. Heard of it? But that's not the only doctor that was put on by Oprah. Welcome back, Dr. O!
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Dr. Mehmet Oz, former heart surgeon and newly confirmed head of Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, also made his claim to fame on her show.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
And while both of these men started out as highly respected in their fields, over time they have left behind their traditional careers for the limelight. And that has come with some pretty bewildering political evolutions. Dr. Phil went from psychologist to talk show host to now joining the Trump administration's ICE raids in Chicago.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Have you or someone you love been confused by the push to make America healthy again? No. If that's the case, then you, my friend, are in dire need of our new series. The Road to Make America Healthy Again.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Yeah? How do you know me? And while Dr. Oz started out as a well-regarded heart surgeon, about half of the recommendations made on his show were found to be unsupported by scientific evidence.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Both men have also come out in support of the right-wing Make America Healthy Again, or MAHA, political movement. And while Oprah has distanced herself from Dr. Oz, I think her show has become a time capsule of how we got to this cross-section between entertainment, politics, and health.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
So today, Kelly and Marsha joined the show to walk us through how the queen of talks influence may have led us to this moment in American health care.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Okay, so I have a good idea of why, like, Oprah was probably drawn to Dr. Oz. But how do you explain Dr. Phil? Like, you mentioned that he was Oprah's trial coach, to which I say... leak the practice tapes. Okay. Stop being shy. Leak the practice tapes.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
So we have Dr. Oz, the former heart surgeon. We have Dr. Phil, the no-nonsense psychologist. I wonder, like, what is Oprah's personal brand here when it comes to self-improvement? Because she's not just platforming other people's she's definitely selling something too.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
For the next few weeks, we're delving into some of the origins, conspiracy theories, and power grabs that have led us to this moment and what that could mean for our health. For the final episode in our Road to Maha series, we are talking about the one, the only Oprah Winfrey. She is the ultimate self-made woman story.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Yes. Yes. It's kind of like Oprah has a fabulous life. She managed to do it through grit, hard work, determination, and a little bit of luck. And now she wants to share the secrets of the spoils of this life with us.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
I have a question, though, about audience. The three of us are talking. And for those who don't know at home listening. We're all Black. So obviously I know that we were like, I think, an implied sector of Oprah's audience. But I don't think we were the only people that she was trying to reach or the only people who were picking up what she was putting down.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
Talk to me about Oprah's audience then and now.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
That is Dr. Kelly Carter-Jackson, historian and co-host of You Get a Podcast, a show about the queen of talk.
It's Been a Minute
The Oprah to "Make America Healthy Again" Pipeline
You know, in thinking about these different versions of Oprah, I think one of the things that kind of accelerated this change in Oprah is this bootstraps mentality was perhaps, you know, inspired by her own exceptionalism and overcoming poverty and abuse and so much more. And also...
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
A whopping 48% of men 18 to 49 have an account with at least one of the online sportsbooks. Now, if the term sportsbook sounds unfamiliar to you, don't worry. You probably know these ones. DraftKings. Now, I know Super Bowl and all, but everyone gets a free bet?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
I love betting on the NBA with FanDuel, especially when I've got the world's greatest basketball mind on my side.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Platforms like FanDuel and DraftKings give potential bettors access to all types of odds, wagers and bets just with a swipe of their finger.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
That is Manny Fidel, a writer and producer who sometimes bets on sports himself.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
He wrote an article in GQ about his sports betting experience and how he's opting out of participating in sports betting's biggest and most enticing moneymaker.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
While it can be a fun way to spice up a game, sports betting has become so ubiquitous that it almost feels separate from gambling entirely. And for me, that raised some alarm bells.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Now more than ever, finances are at the top of everyone's mind. And young people are feeling that pressure especially hard. But sports betting seems to be hitting a cultural nerve that has some young men in a bind.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. As you all know, I was obsessed with the 2025 Papal Conclave. There were TikTok edits about all the potential candidates, a Twitter account called Club Conclave, dedicating to following the updates.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
And for the next few weeks, we're looking into the ways everyday people are trying to make ends meet and what that says about how our culture views labor, basic needs, or even our favorite pastimes. Today, Manny and Danny join me to get into how sports betting has gone from pastime to potential side hustle, even changing the way we watch sports.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
And I want to know, what does the rise in sports betting mean for the love of the game? Okay, first off, how has sports betting gotten this kind of brand makeover or change in framing that's been so appealing to young guys?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
The long arc of time will get you something.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
And before Pope Leo XIV was chosen to lead the Catholic Church, the media was in a full speculative frenzy. But there was just one aspect of the process that I did not expect. People betting on the outcome of the conclave. Similar to the 2024 presidential election, the conclave became a type of sport to follow. And where there's sports, there's sports betting.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Say more about that. I learned a little bit about this, and it kind of blew my mind, and I think a lot of our listeners are going to be in the same place.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
The same game parlay, is this a type of bet that's always been around? Or is it unique to sports betting now?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
I don't know. For a long time, gambling was sort of seen – as like this seedy thing, right? And now you can see, you know, your favorite sports analyst giving bets or Kevin Hart commercials for DraftKings. I wonder, like, has sports betting rebranded gambling more broadly?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
I wonder about the ways in which we're seeing young men think about sports betting as a side hustle or as a smart financial move and how that kind of fits in with the way that they have gravitated toward other types of financial risks like day trading or cryptocurrency.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Not even just talking about the money-making aspect, but there's a bro culture around those things that to me feels very similar to sports betting. Is that something that y'all are observing as well? And if you are, I'd love to hear what you think about it.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
That is Danny Funt. He covers sports betting for The Washington Post and is currently working on a book about the sports betting boom. He's been following how sports betting is changing sports and attracting new groups to the possibility of winning big.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
How has sports betting changed how we engage with sports?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
I feel like sports is one of the few like arenas in society or culture more broadly that Where a lot of it, when you get down to it, is really about the joy of hard work. And the joy of hard work is also appreciated in the fandom, right?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
There's a real simplicity in what the spectacle is, which is seeing people do these incredible things with their bodies that they have been, through a combination of heredity and luck and a lot of hard work, they've been able to achieve. Like WNBA, World Cup, I'm a different person, okay? I'm like sports is the universal language, baby. And there's something really beautiful about that.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
At the end of the day, when you get down to it, that's to me what I've always felt like sports is for. But with this uptick in online sports betting, what is sports about now?
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Gosh.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
Jeez, oh Pete's well. There's a lot that's going on, a lot that's still emerging, and I'm so grateful that I was able to discuss all of this with the two of you. Manny, Danny, thank you both so much.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. That was writer and producer Manny Fidel and journalist Danny Funt. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams.
It's Been a Minute
Get rich or die trying: how sports betting is changing our love of the game
This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
That came from other places like yoga that are now completely divorced from, in many ways at least, they're presented as completely divorced from the spiritualities and the cultures that they come from.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Oh my gosh, you all have made me see so many things about the wellness industry very differently, but in a good clarifying way. So I thank you both so much for coming on today. This was great.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
That was Alyssa Bereznack, wellness editor for the LA Times and Rina Raphael, author of the book, The Gospel of Wellness, Gyms, Gurus, Goop, and the False Promise of Self-Care. And wow, I am so grateful you made it this far. Yes, you listening right now. It must mean you really like the show, which is awesome because it turns out I really love making it for you.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
And I'm going to let you in on a little secret. You can become an even bigger fan of the show by signing up for It's Been a Minute Plus. It supports this show and all of public media. Plus, you get to listen to every episode of the show sponsor-free. There's a link in the description of this episode, or you can go to plus.npr.org slash itsbeenaminute to sign up.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
And seriously, thanks so much for hanging out with me. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Engineering support came from Zoe Vangenhoven. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
I want to know, what do people get out of a wellness-based spirituality? And is it a spirituality of the self? To find out, I sat down with Alyssa Bereznack, wellness editor for the LA Times. Thank you so much. And Rina Raphael, author of the book, The Gospel of Wellness, Jim's Guru's Goop and the False Promise of Self-Care.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Take a deep breath in and out. And let's get into it. Okay, I want to define some terms first. Wellness. It's a big word. It's a big word. And it describes a huge number of different practices. And it's a term that seems like it's getting broader and broader in definition all the time. So my first question, what even is wellness?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
I'm sorry, who's thinking of CBD leggings? I've never heard of those before. Yeah. Got to get some, Brittany. They're all the rage. I'm not on the right email list service. I tell you what. But I think about like the way that yoga, it's a practice that promotes a spiritual connection through the body.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
And, you know, I think about other things like Reiki, which I mean, I mean, myself have done some Reiki from time to time and enjoyed it. But I mean, you know, Reiki is really about, you know, connection to spirit anyway. And I think I've also done breath work. sound baths, but there is definitely a lot of spirituality woven throughout a lot of these practices.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
And so I'm wondering, wellness and spirituality, how did these things get connected?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. America is a deeply spiritual nation. Over 70% of us say that we feel spiritual in some way, but at the same time, we're also getting less religious.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so we know that spirituality is integrating into wellness, but I wonder in what ways are some of these wellness practices shaped like organized religion? Like are people worshiping wellness itself? And what do people get out of that?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Speaking of drawbacks, this is not at all to say that religious institutions are better than more alternative spiritualities. But are there things that organized religions offer that wellness is missing?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Wait, what does that mean? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that phrasing before. Americans are choosing more spiritual practices based on their feelings?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
But again, what I'm hearing is that these, as you said, self-serving kinds of spiritualities are often more internally and personally focused and less externally and community focused. What do you think about that, Alyssa?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Yeah, there are traditions of giving to the needy or supporting community programs connected to worship in religions like Christianity and Islam.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
When asked to check a box next to their religious affiliation, 28% of Americans check the box labeled none. The nuns, as they're sometimes called, are now the biggest religious group in the United States. But for people who are spiritual but not religious, what's replacing organized religion? What do they believe? And where does that belief show up in all of our lives?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Are businesses doing a good job of filling the void that, say, a church may have filled in the past?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
That's an excellent point. I mean, really what you're saying is that it sounds like wellness just fits more easily into capitalism than perhaps traditional religion.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Coming up, how wellness culture can promote conspirituality, meaning the intersection of conspiracy and spirituality.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Sometimes that kind of intense focus on the self, as we're discussing, doesn't leave much room for the messiness of other people, but also doesn't leave much room for things to be outside of your control. I think that partially because of that, there are ways in which some of the, you know, body-based spiritualism or spirituality kind of happening is
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
can curdle into things like orthorexia or even, you know, conspiracy. I think a lot of us have seen that pop up in the past few years. Some people have discussed like the wellness to QAnon pipelines.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Well, for the next couple of weeks on our new series called Losing My Religion, we're going to find out. Today, we're getting into wellness. It's a global industry worth $6 trillion that's starting to encompass all kinds of things, including spirituality, from the spirituality of wellness practices like yoga and Reiki to treating wellness itself like a religion.
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Wow, I'm sorry. That's a phrase for the ages. The flip side of optimism is gullibility. My gosh, my gosh. We've been talking a lot about spirituality of the self, the spirituality of these very market-friendly wellness practices. But let's also talk about the way wellness can show up within religion. I've seen some reporting that
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
Churches are now trying to offer some wellness practices like yoga and sound baths. Do you think that those kinds of spiritual but not religious activities could integrate into a more traditional spirituality?
It's Been a Minute
Goodbye, church... Hello, Wellness Industrial Complex!
You know, we're talking about the way that, you know, different sects of religion and houses of worship have come to adopt wellness practices as a way of drawing people in. But also, conversely, across the wellness industry, there are all these different kinds of spiritual or spiritual-ish practices that
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
And I think a lot of women saw this narrative about male loneliness and they were like, oh, please do not make this my problem. Yeah. But clearly a significant number of men are finding it hard to make friends or reach out to people for connection when they're lonely. So what needs to change?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
That was Ali Volpe, senior reporter at Vox and Harris Sokol, writer and content lead at Medium. If you or someone you know may be considering suicide or is in crisis, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide in Crisis Lifeline. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
We asked our listeners what that looks like. And here's what a few of them had to say.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
That was Rick Klebanow, Jonathan Ellis, and Devin Burns. You'll hear more from them throughout the episode. But while a lot of men are lonely, some surveys suggest that they aren't actually more likely to be lonely than women are. But if that's true, then why has there been so much attention on men's loneliness?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
And if the problems men are having don't boil down to loneliness, what do they boil down to? I'm joined today by Allie Volpe, senior reporter at Vox. Thanks so much. And Harris Sockle. He's a writer and content lead at Medium. Thanks. To break it all down. According to Pew, there's only a 1% difference in reported loneliness between men and women.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Do you relate? Well, you may be lonely, but you're not alone. One third of Americans report feeling lonely at least once a week. And 16% of Americans report feeling lonely all or most of the time.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
How did the narrative about a men's loneliness epidemic spread anyway?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Yeah, it's interesting. It's like we got all these different threads, isolation, lack of friends, you know, perhaps less dating or increased celibacy, combined with some of these other things that you mentioned, Ali, like taking up the majority of the suicide rate, unemployment, under education, some of those things might be correlated with each other.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
But they've all kind of been lumped in together with this idea that men are uniquely and especially lonely. I've also seen, though, the idea that men are uniquely lonely, too. used to explain the rise of people like Andrew Tate and the reelection of Donald Trump. Why did loneliness get latched onto as an explanation?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
That's true. Some recent research has found that men expect more benefits from romantic relationships and are more motivated to seek them out compared to women.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
You know, thinking more about the data, like even if men don't self-report loneliness at a rate much higher at all than women, at the same time, I don't want to minimize that something is definitely going on. The same Pew data that we discussed earlier shows that men on a whole are less likely to reach out to people for emotional support compared to women. Other data shows that 15% of men
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
It's hard to say definitively if loneliness has gotten worse, but what we do know is that a significant amount of people are feeling it. And we also know that chronic loneliness is really bad for us. Studies show loneliness is associated with a higher risk for heart disease, dementia, stroke, even premature death. But who is at greater risk for loneliness?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
say that they have no close friends, none. Other data suggests that the emotional quality of men's friendships are not great. They get emotional support from friends half as much as women do and also say, I love you half as much. What is going on here? Why are men generally so bad at connection? Harris, what do you think?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
I also wonder too if... it can feel safer to be in a group because then you get more reinforcement that you are doing friendship the right way.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Whereas like maybe, you know, as we've been kind of circling in this conversation, but I guess I'll say it, maybe perhaps in a one-on-one friendship, because there is so much homophobia in our society, it can feel like, you know, maybe this one-on-one friendship with another man is feeling too romantic. Where in a group, maybe it's more of a way to make sure like the emotional depth is like...
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
You know, something else that each of you brought up when you talked to our producer Liam in your pre-interview chats, we don't get a lot of man-to-man friendships in media really outside of buddy comedies.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
And for those of us stuck in the loneliness loop, how do we get ourselves out? I'm Brittany Luce, and for the next few weeks on It's Been a Minute, we're launching a series called All the Lonely People. We're diving deep into how loneliness shows up in our lives and how our culture shapes it. This week, we're talking about men.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Yeah. Another thing from the Pew study gets at something that each of you have brought up, which is that men were just as likely to reach out to their spouse for emotional support as women were. But for every other kind of relationship, they were less likely to say that they'd reach out. You've each kind of discussed this phenomenon of men putting more of their eggs in
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
into the relationship basket. But I wonder, what does that do to them when they do that? What do they lose out on by doing that?
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Oh my God, splitting chores. Budgeting.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Outside of the general loneliness epidemic, there's also been a lot of discussion about a men's loneliness epidemic. Study after study is showing that loneliness is on the rise and men are being hit especially hard. It's called the male loneliness epidemic, where men tend to be more isolated than women. And a lot of men are lonely. About one in seven say they're lonely all or most of the time.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
Connected to this idea. I mean, I think there's a lot of women out there that feel the weight of being relied upon in that way. I mean, I feel very fortunate. I adore my husband. One of the things that I really loved about him and I was very intent on looking for was When I was like looking for a partner was that he had friends, had good friendships and was a good friend.
It's Been a Minute
The men's loneliness epidemic might not exist
He's always making new friends, having plans, got different groups of people that he has dinner with, wine country trips, wine tastings, reality TV, watch parties, all types of things. I have, though, been in relationships where I felt like, oh, my gosh, like, is there anybody else that you could talk to? Is there anybody else in your life? And it's a lot to carry.
It's Been a Minute
Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
I get that. I don't know. I used to watch that show on NBC. It's not on anymore called This Is Us. I felt like watching that show every week. They were trying to tell me that I needed to have three children. I don't, but that's a story for another time. Our story today begins with none other than Ms.
It's Been a Minute
Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Beyonce Giselle Knowles-Carter, who spent her Christmas day performing the NFL halftime show in her hometown of Houston, Texas.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
the performance lasted more than 12 minutes and brought many of the things we associate with Black Southern rodeo culture, horses, line dances, and even real-life rodeo queens to the homes of more than 27 million viewers in the United States alone. But as the singer ascended above the crowd, belting songs from her latest album, Cowboy Carter, some viewers got a different message.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
In the days after the halftime performance, a TikTok user that goes by the name Han posited that through Beyonce's widespread usage of the American flag and her embrace of other symbols of Americana on the world stage, Mrs. Knowles-Carter was acting as America's best press agent.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we're connecting the dots between the American flag, the Catholic Church, and Beyonce. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
This spurred a flurry of responses.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
The girls are being very disingenuous. Nobody not once said that Beyonce is above critique. Real quick, if you were not raised in the South, I need you to shut your mouth. This went on for weeks. Now, Beyonce is no stranger to using her music to communicate the message. Who can forget when she performed in front of the word FEMINIST in all caps and huge lettering on the MTV Video Music Awards?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Or when she posed on top of a sinking New Orleans police car in her music video for Formation? She's also not the only superstar to traffic heavily in political imagery. You know, artists across genres have done this as well, from Michael Jackson to Bruce Springsteen. But the question of whether these acts constitute propaganda has me asking, just how prominent is propaganda in our pop culture?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
So, Daphne, Nick, is propaganda the right word for what Beyonce did with her NFL halftime show?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Do you think propaganda is the right word?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like what you're both saying is that perhaps propaganda is not the right word here, but it is important that people read culture critically, even the culture that they enjoy the most. It feels like we're in a time where people are highly concerned about the role of propaganda in the media.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
I mean, there's been many such times in the past, but I feel like that's definitely something that's coloring the world that we're in right now. You know, even looking at the platform of TikTok itself, one of the concerns the U.S. government has is that its algorithms could be used or will be used to disseminate propaganda.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Meta, the social media company, has announced that it will end its fact-checking feature in favor of quote-unquote community notes. This is the soup we're all stewing in right now, right? What do the concerns about Beyonce and propaganda say about this moment?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Well, we're going to find out with music and Black feminism scholar, Dr. Daphne A. Brooks, and mass communication historian, Dr. Nicholas Cull. Daphne, Nick, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Great to be here. Thanks for having us, Brittany. Okay, so I got a real quick question for you. Have you ever watched something on TV and thought, okay, now this is propaganda.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Coming up, what you and other Americans may have fundamentally misunderstood about propaganda.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
What each of you... Our saying is what Beyonce's doing isn't exactly propaganda, but what she's presenting and how she's presenting it isn't coming out of or into a vacuum. I mean, first of all, the American flag is not a neutral symbol. Not at all. For many people in this country and outside of it. not a neutral symbol. But also Beyonce engages with politics in real life.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
I mean, she supported democratic presidential candidates like former president Obama and vice president Harris. She's donned black Panther inspired costuming at the Superbowl, another NFL jump scare in 2016. And we all know the Carters, both Beyonce and her husband, they both have friendly business relationships to the NFL. After the whole Colin Kaepernick scandal,
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
situation after which the NFL had a serious reputation crisis on their hands, right? Allegations of racism on their hands. And Beyonce seems to jump back and forth between anti-establishment and pro-establishment imagery. But like I've said, she isn't the only one. Why is it important to take note of the dissonances in this kind of messaging from huge public figures?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
I have one last question. When we are presented with media, that has political messaging, what are the questions we should be asking ourselves as we interpret it?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
You mean you enjoy the feeling of being reached out to?
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
Hmm. So it sounds like you're both advocating for critical thinking. And that is something that I can 150% get behind. This is not propaganda. Well, Dr. Call, Dr. Brooks, I've learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Thank you, Brittany.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
That was music and Black feminism scholar Dr. Daphne A. Brooks and mass communication historian Dr. Nicholas Cull. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose. Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right.
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Is your favorite pop star spreading propaganda?
That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
I mean, I even think about when the United Auto Workers organized that huge strike, I being able to get a different view on what their concerns were, what they're worried about, what's vital about what they do.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Well, Isabella, I really appreciate you coming here and talking with us about this. Thank you so much for having me. That was NPR culture reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Her article titled, Why Would a Musician Join Only Fans? Because Making a Living is Only Getting Harder, is available right now on NPR.org.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
And while artists doing sex work is not a new thing, what is new, at least to me, is why they're doing it.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
I don't know about you, but I was always under the impression that artists make the bulk of their money on tour. But that income model has changed drastically over the years.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
This is Money Troubles. And for the next few weeks, we're looking into the ways everyday people are trying to make ends meet and what that says about how our culture views labor, basic needs, or even our favorite pastimes.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Today on the show, Isabella joins me to get into why artists are opting out of traditional platforms and what it says about our growing divide between the haves and the have-nots. I want to talk more about what's going on with touring and why that seems like it has become less and less of a solid economic opportunity for artists, especially independent artists.
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In your article, Stephen Parker, executive director of the National Independent Venue Association, names Live Nation as the, quote, biggest threat to live touring in the United States because of their monopoly on the live music market. Can you give an idea of the allegations that artists or legislators have made against Live Nation or companies like it?
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You know, something else that I have seen is other established artists talking about how difficult touring has been. I'm thinking of artists like James Blake and Little Brother. Little Brother has been critical of also venues themselves that are asking for a cut from independent artists when they previously had not.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Do you all remember this line from Megan Thee Stallion's Savage remix?
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Little Brother is embarking on what they say will be their last tour this year, which is wild to think about. You know, a group with such a solid fan base saying, hey, touring isn't worth it for us anymore. That's something that definitely caught my attention.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Whether that means, you know, they stop touring or they start doing sex work on OnlyFans, there are plenty of artists who have had to make these career-altering decisions to how they approach their careers in the past five years, you know, since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
At the time, this was just a cheeky line from Beyonce about the meteoric rise of OnlyFans during lockdown. For those of you who are out of the loop, OnlyFans is a subscription or pay-per-view based social media platform. It's mostly known for sex work, as many adult stars and performers have moved to the app to create and upload content on their own terms.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
But, I mean, there's also, on the other hand, artists like Taylor Swift, who's selling out, you know, the Eros tour. Would you say the music industry is experiencing, or maybe has always experienced, a little bit of a haves and have-nots dynamic? And what about a music industry middle class? Is there anything in between?
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
One of the things I've been thinking about is a lot of these musicians seem to be moving towards OnlyFans or digital sex work because they're not making as much money perhaps as they are used to making or as much money as they think is fair for their music.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
But setting that aside for a second, I mean, OnlyFans is known for being a platform where sex workers can take control of their careers within the adult film industry or within just like the sex industry more broadly. I wonder how has this celebrity presence on the platform affected the non-celebrity sex workers on OnlyFans?
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
But it's also become an avenue for music artists to share exclusive content.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
What the music industry's shrinking middle class means for artists and fans alike.
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I wonder, you know, as we're talking about this idea of like a music industry middle class, like that it seems is perhaps dwindling. Like who was a middle class artist, say, in like the 90s or earlier 2000s? How would their business or lifestyle have worked? And how does that compare to now?
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
Wow, wow, wow, wow. A lot of people listening to this conversation might think, okay, so these musicians, some of whom probably have more money than I ever will, are no longer able to make as much money as they could in the past. Why should I care? I wonder, why is it important for us everyday people to take notice of this happening in the music industry?
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
That is NPR culture reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. She recently wrote a piece about musicians on OnlyFans, and she found that while big stars often use it to give a behind-the-scenes look, into their creative process. Smaller independent artists have turned to sex work on OnlyFans to pay the bills.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
You raise some really good points. The thing that this really does make me think a lot about is the SAG-AFTRA strikes in Hollywood nearly two years ago. Absolutely. The impact of the strikes sort of gave... everyday people insight into the TV and film industry.
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
And the fact that, you know, despite making, you know, this work that's highly visible that we all watch and stream and love, there is a significant unprotected middle class or working class within the film and TV industries. The public was able to really make that connection possibly for the first time. I wonder why do you think musicians haven't had that same kind of breakthrough moment?
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Can OnlyFans save the music industry?
That is such an interesting bit, like the fact that the kind of collective power that comes with a union is not just necessarily even just a show of power within your industry towards managers, owners, bosses, but also can be a show of power for people who are outside of your industry and may not fully understand what it is that you do every day.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Yeah, I was going to say it's almost god level. Yeah. I think that part of it is that like I don't know if stans necessarily see being a fan of their fave as like being a fan of celebrity in general. I think they identify with their fave. Like they see aspects of themselves in their fave. And they think like their fame is not like other girls.
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And listen, it's already enough that Ryan Reynolds is constantly trying to sell us a budget cell service, but now Harrison Ford is selling me an all-terrain vehicle. That's just a bridge too far for me personally. But what really shocked me was the reaction to Beyoncé's Cowboy Carter tour ticket prices. This is why bell hooks call Beyoncé a terrorist. These ticket prices are an act of terrorism.
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So they're like, oh, I'm just defending this person who I identify with myself as opposed to thinking about like, oh, I'm a fan of this celebrity or just like I'll I'm a fan of any celebrity. Like I'm not I think they don't want to feel like rubes.
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Yes, my friend, Lord, Savior, the whole thing interchangeably. You know, one last thought. We've established that more and more celebrities seem to be cash grapping, overexposed, out of touch. Americans seem, at least the national tenor seems to be that we are growing increasingly disenchanted with them. And yet here they are. And so I wonder, what would it take for us to divest from celebrity?
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And is that something we even want?
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Then we're free. Yeah, then we're going to be fighting for water.
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Oh, you know they have their own Wi-Fi down there. You know it's going to be like, oh, my gosh.
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Then people will be fighting over which of their faves bunker is the best one. Yeah. Oh, that's grim. That's grim.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
All right. Well, oh, my gosh. This has been such a fun conversation. Thank you both so much.
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A round of applause for our fantastic guests. That was Vulture's Rachel Handler and Vox's Alex Abad-Santos, live from On Air Fest in Brooklyn, New York. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams, Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
The very first thing I should have seen come from Beyoncé after this ticket debacle is a lawsuit against Ticketmaster. You're pricing, not pricing, ma'am. After the whole ticket debacle, Beyonce went on later that week to promote her perfume on Instagram. And the comments? I did not know the hive had it in them.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
But Beyonce is far from the only celebrity to sell, market, be the face of, or the face behind a product. And the way these egg prices are set up, all this product pushing is getting a bit stale, if you ask me. So when I got the opportunity to host It's Been a Minute Live. Hello, hello, everybody.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Last month at On Air Fest in Brooklyn, New York, I knew exactly who to call to get to the bottom of this. Vulture Features writer Rachel Handler.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
and senior correspondent at Vox, Alex Abad-Santos.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Alex and Rachel joined me live at On Air Fest to get into the depth of celebrity culture, and if that's something we even want. But first, I had to know, what moment made them think celebrity culture had started to take a turn?
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
That's a really good one. She was kind of like I think in many ways one of the last like rock stars I feel like that we had in her behavior. Right, right.
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Look at that. Look at that. One of the big things I've been thinking about in terms of like why celebrities feel so tiresome, I think, to so many of us right now are that they are everywhere. We have, in some ways, it feels like unlimited access to them. I mean, they're on every channel. Yeah. Social media, commercials, interviews.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
I mean, going back to these celebrities at the Super Bowl and how many of them were in commercials, some of whom I haven't seen act in a minute, right? But someone was like, just come here for six hours. We'll give you a check. And they're like, all right, I'll get up. I do kind of see this as a recession marker. I say this as somebody who is not an econ reporter. Don't come for me.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
This is just... Think about this the same way you might think about astrology, okay? But I wonder, how do you think... The high level of access we have to celebrities now is kind of feeding into the moment that we're in with being disenchanted with them.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
Yeah. That makes me think about another aspect in all this. I think with that kind of illusion of access, the way that not just even celebrities, but everyday people communicate with each other or with the masses on social media has changed.
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The kind of very manicured Instagram posts that we all remember has been replaced by people literally rolling out of bed on TikTok and being like, hey, what's up? Or being like, get ready with me. Or being like, look how nasty my house is. Or-
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To your point, Rachel, I think that that veneer of authenticity, whether or not it really exists, that has become a lot more valuable in how celebrities represent themselves. I think about like Chapel Roan and Dochi, like two people who have the capability of being very glammed up and having this stage persona.
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But as soon as they get on social media, they're like talking back to people in the comments. That's very different than the kind of relationship that really big Hollywood stars have like with their fans. it might seem de classe for them to like actually connect with people authentically.
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I mean, Chappell already doesn't speak as much to people. She used to like be in her room on TikTok or whatever. I mean, again, like all roads do, it takes me back to Britney Spears and thinking about like sort of like the two halves. The first half is kind of like a, I'm your dream girl.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
And then that sort of second half of her career where lots of people love Britney for that, where she's this real, raw, authentic person who is also going to fight with a photographer. The public wants both. And sometimes- We want both at the same time, which I imagine is very hard to give.
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You have? Okay. You have her cleaning spray?
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More on the death of celebrity culture after the break.
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I like that. I like that. If you ask me, I think celebrity and celebrity culture are in a really precarious place. For example, we've talked about the oversaturation of celebrities at the Super Bowl. This year alone, Martha Stewart and Matthew McConaughey did an Uber Eats commercial. Issa Rae pretended to file her taxes with TurboTax. Ben Affleck continued his Dunkin' Donuts partnership.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
You know, I think the biggest part of all of this, why celebrity culture feels like it is withering and dying on the vine, is actually a phrase that you used earlier, Rachel. Class consciousness, baby.
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If I'm worried about the price of X, or if I'm worried how I'm going to save for a down payment on something, somewhere, at some point in my life, which is how it feels currently, some point in my life, it might bother me to see a multimillionaire You know, movie star or pop star who's, you know, been famous longer than I've been alive, you know, making an ad on Super Bowl Sunday.
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Or someone who's been profiled recently by Netflix for everything they've overcome in their business over the past four or five decades. Martha Stewart, I love the documentary. Additionally, I think some of these celebrities are trying to get us to buy stuff that doesn't even make sense online. for them to be selling. Like I think about Beyonce for a long time did not drink.
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And then she came up out of nowhere and she said, I'm selling whiskey. I said, to drink with who? Is it for you? Is it for you? And you know, I've heard it's tasty. I don't know. Cause I mean, I'm not buying it. Like, like I said, I'm on a budget. This one really got me. Courtney Cox. Courtney Cox, as you all know, she played Monica on Friends.
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Courtney Cox is selling hand soap, which I guess I get. Candles. Okay. Yeah. Cleaning spray? Courtney Cox cleaning spray? When was the last time you think she cleaned her bathroom was? Just a guess. Just a guess. When was the last time you think she cleaned her bathroom?
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
You have? Okay. You have her cleaning spray?
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
When Goop first came out, I was subscribed the first week. That's like my secret shame. And I said, what about your girl? How you doing? What's going on? What's going on? But this is the thing. I also think about just the insane amount of products that celebrities are selling. I mean, Machine Gun Kelly, in case you didn't know, and Megan Fox have a nail polish line.
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"Celebrity" just isn't hitting like it used to...
And see, and now you do. And now we're all worse for it. Yep. Brad Pitt is selling cashmere sweaters. What Brad Pitt has to do with cashmere? What? I don't know. How do you see the public as receiving these kinds of celebrity endorsements and product lines? How do you think that has kind of tipped the scales on the class consciousness angle of it all?
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No! Please tell me you got a TJ Maxx.
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I like that. I like that. You know, you can't bring up Beyonce, Nicki Minaj, Taylor Swift, Miss Private Plain herself. You can't bring their names up anywhere in line, sometimes not even in public, without like...
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And Harrison Ford got in on the action, too.
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waking up the stands I'm looking over my shoulders right now because you never know or getting doxxed you know like if you say something that you don't that someone doesn't like about their fave they're gonna like pull up your mom's social security card you know what I mean I wonder why do you think stan culture seems to be more prevalent in some ways more toxic than ever as celebrity or the idea of celebrity the dynamic of celebrity is kind of falling out of public favor
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The acute loneliness of moms
You know, thinking about all this stuff, we've unpacked a lot today. And let me tell you, as somebody who is mom curious, I have learned a lot today in this conversation. But how do we fix it? What needs to change?
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The acute loneliness of moms
I'm Brittany Luce, and for the next few weeks on It's Been a Minute, we're launching a series called All the Lonely People. We're diving deep into how loneliness shows up in our lives and how our culture shapes it. This week, we're talking to moms.
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The acute loneliness of moms
That was Jessica Gross, New York Times opinion writer and author of the book Screaming on the Inside, The Unsustainability of American Motherhood, and associate professor and parental burnout researcher at Ohio State University, Kate Golick. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams.
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The acute loneliness of moms
Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
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The acute loneliness of moms
A 2024 survey from Ohio State University showed that 71% of moms said that the demands of parenthood made them feel lonely sometimes or a lot of the time, compared to 59% of dads. But why are moms so acutely lonely? We asked our listeners, and here's what a few of them had to say.
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The acute loneliness of moms
That was Ashley Ludwinski, Tayana Teal, Natalie Crowley, and Yasmeen Baroon. You'll hear more from them throughout the episode. But to break it all down, I'm joined by Jessica Groves, New York Times opinion writer and author of the book Screaming on the Inside, The Unsustainability of American Motherhood. So happy to be here.
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The acute loneliness of moms
And associate professor and parental burnout researcher at Ohio State University, Kate Golick.
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The acute loneliness of moms
Kate and Jessica are experts, like their jobs are to talk to moms. And they're also both moms themselves. So they're here to tell me why moms are so lonely and what we can do to alleviate mom loneliness. To start, Kate, you have four kids and you told my producer Liam that you've experienced some of this mom loneliness firsthand. What did it look like for you?
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The acute loneliness of moms
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Do you relate? Well, you may be lonely, but you're not alone. One third of Americans report feeling lonely at least once a week. And 16% of Americans report feeling lonely all or most of the time.
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The acute loneliness of moms
If you've never been a mom before, how would you even making friends is already can sometimes be tricky enough in adulthood. Like how would you even know to go about how to find mommy friends? Yeah.
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The acute loneliness of moms
You just mentioned right now that it's different, like having a mom friend is different than the co-parenting connection you might share with the spouse. I wonder, why might moms feel lonely even if they have a partner, a supportive partner that they love or love?
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
Or even if they have friends, mom friends or non-mom friends, why might moms feel lonely despite having these other kind of supportive connections in their lives?
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
Oh, yeah. It's a very common thing that mom groups start. It's like, you know, you all have kids due February 2025. Then you'll, you know, be in a local mom's group together because, you know, you're gonna have kids around the same age.
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
Kate, I'd love to hear from you on this. Why do you think moms feel lonely even if they have a partner, even if they have friends?
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
Coming up, we get into the structural reasons moms can't catch a break.
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
I want to zoom out for a second. What are some of the cultural reasons why moms feel so lonely?
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
Like, just like, yeah, it's so wild to me, too, because I mean, I don't know, baby's got to go places. People act out on airplanes and they're grown. They fight with the people at the airline.
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
A lot of attention is being paid to loneliness right now. After the former American Surgeon General declared a loneliness epidemic, news organizations from the New York Times to the Atlantic to NPR jumped to cover it. And it's hard to say definitively if loneliness has gotten worse, but what we do know is that a significant amount of people are feeling it.
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
I think I read a statistic somewhere that working mothers today spend more time with their children than stay-at-home moms did in like the 70s or something like that.
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
We've been talking about mom loneliness, but dads are also pretty lonely. I mean, you know, 59%, as per the survey I mentioned earlier, I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. Why do you think dad loneliness is comparatively lower than mom loneliness?
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
And we also know that chronic loneliness is really bad for us. Studies show loneliness is associated with a higher risk for heart disease, dementia, stroke, even premature death. But who is at greater risk for loneliness? And for those of us stuck in the loneliness loop, how do we get ourselves out?
It's Been a Minute
The acute loneliness of moms
You know, we talked about the cultural reasons for mom loneliness, but I wonder what part of mom loneliness is structural?
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Well, I appreciate you both coming on the show and talking with me today. I have learned so much here today.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Thanks for having us. That was writer and co-host of the Conspiratuality Podcast, Derek Barris, and biomedical scientist, Dr. Andrea Love. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams. This episode was edited by Nina Patak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Now, when you hear the word crunchy, you may think about hippies in the 60s and 70s or people making their own kombucha, you know, practicing veganism, folks with left-leaning politics who are living off the land, stuff like that. But these days, that's not quite right.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
That is Derek Barris, writer and co-host of the Conspiratuality podcast. a show dedicated to dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis. And he says that the link between this return to nature ideology and conservatism is a pattern we've seen throughout history.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Now, you may be wondering, what does a crunchy conservative look like today? Well, there are the crunchy moms.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Have you or someone you love been confused by the push to make America healthy again? Side effects may include being inundated by uncredentialed wellness influencers and crunchy mommy bloggers selling supplements.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
The wellness influencers who spread misinformation about the food we consume.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Even right-wing commentators who suddenly have the cure for poisons and toxins.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
That is Dr. Andrea Love, a biomedical scientist who has been ringing the alarm on the harm of pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and of course, crunchy conservatism.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
And somehow these conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and wellness influencers have coalesced under the Make America Healthy Again banner and its leader, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Listen, this is a lot, but don't worry. Derek and Andrea are going to walk us through this meeting of the minds between what we thought was the far left and the ethos of the right. Where do you think this intersection, this crossover between crunchy and conservative is rooted?
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Hmm. You all have pulled up so many different historical examples of how this kind of crunchy granola or crunchy conservative thinking has crested at different points in time throughout American history. But I wonder, like, why are crunchy conservatives so prominent right now?
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
How crunchy conservatives found RFK Jr.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Feeling perplexed by how RFK Jr. went from an environmental champion to an anti-vax conspiracy theorist. Or maybe seeing the names Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz more and more in your feeds. If that's the case, then you, my friend, are in dire need of our new series. The Road to Make America Healthy Again.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
I hear what both of you are saying, but for a lot of groups, this skepticism of experts, doctors, the medical system, science, that skepticism has some historical grounding. I mean, I'm thinking about the inadequate research around diseases that primarily affect women, about the unethical medical experiments done to Black and Latino people in the United States.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Now, I imagine that that also factors into some of the skepticism that people feel.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
And I just want to step in here because there's a lot of misinformation about this incident in particular. So for those of you who don't know, Tuskegee refers to the Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the Negro male. which ran from 1932 to 1972.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
Now, the study was meant to observe the effects of untreated syphilis in black men, but the researchers of the study did not collect informed consent from their subjects. And when a treatment was made available for syphilis, the researchers did not offer them the treatment. Contrary to popular belief, the men were not given syphilis.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
They were chosen because they already had syphilis and were not given treatment for the disease. But because of the legacy of this experiment and many others, there has been an understandable distrust of doctors among some people in the black community.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
I want to zoom out for a minute. There's a big elephant in the room that we have been discussing in terms of the prominence of crunchy conservatives right now. And that's the Make America Healthy Again movement, Maha. And as I've looked into the Maha movement and kind of like who's a part of it, it's not one group of people who follow conservative ideology.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
It's several different groups coming together. Derek, I would love to hear from you on this. Talk to me about some of these different crunchy conservative archetypes.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
For the next few weeks, we're delving into some of the origins, conspiracy theories, and power grabs that have led us to this moment and what that could mean for our health. Today, you and I are going to go down the crunchy to conservative pipeline with some guidance, of course.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
How exactly did he become a leading voice for Crunchy Conservatives?
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
You know, I would guess that there are a lot of not particularly crunchy Americans that are still really concerned about their health. But They might be eating a lot of processed foods or they might be vaccinated. So they don't subscribe to some of these emerging crunchy ideologies.
It's Been a Minute
Crunchy conservatives want to 'Make America Healthy Again'
But I'm wondering if the overwhelming majority of people aren't necessarily following these ideologies, how does crunchy conservatism affect the majority of Americans? How is this movement shaping all of us?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
You said, my producer, that you think of sobriety as just being in the world more. So how has just being in the world been important in your life?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
And our Surgeon General just recommended adding cancer risk labels to bottles. Alcohol is also a leading cause of preventable death in the U.S. So I get why dry January is popular. But Ana Marie Cox says we don't need to wait for January to come around.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
I don't think your gratitude sounds strange. I don't think it sounds strange at all.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Well, Ana, thank you so much for this conversation. I feel very grateful that we got to speak today.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Thanks again to Ana Marie Cox. You can find her work at The New Republic, NBC, and elsewhere. And if you're curious about dry January and looking for tips, our friends over at NPR's Life Kit have you covered. They're running a special newsletter this month with expert strategies for how to successfully give up alcohol.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
You can find more information over at npr.org slash newsletter slash zero dash alcohol. That's npr.org slash newsletter slash zero dash alcohol. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Jessica Plachek. Jasmine Romero. Engineering support came from Becky Brown. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
And while she's been sober for over a decade, she's watched more and more people opt out of drinking, be it out of preference or need.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
I went out on the streets to talk to people about how they feel about drinking and whether their relationship to alcohol has changed. Do you feel like you drink more now or less now generally? Much, much less. I'm now in my 40s and the body does not react the same.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Almost everyone I talked to said they don't drink much or drink less than they used to. And according to Gallup, the amount of Americans that drink is 58%, the lowest number since 1996. And 41% of Americans who do drink say they want to drink less. The appeal of a more sober lifestyle is even showing up in bars, where I'm seeing non-alcoholic options on menus. People are cashing in.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
And the alcohol-free beverage sector is now a multi-billion dollar industry. But how does the rise of sober curiosity jive with our alcohol-centric culture? And what would it look like to live in a more sober world? Here's my chat from last winter with Ana. Ana, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
It's great to have you. You wrote in your column for The Cut called Sober Questioning that sobriety was life-saving for you, but you also framed it as something everyone should try at least once, like camping. Me, myself, I am meant to be an indoor cat. But I think that's such an interesting way to put it.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
How did you come to that philosophy, even though you, like you said, came to sobriety not as a visitor?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Our conversation in this episode isn't necessarily about our country's relationship to drinking, but more about our relationship to not drinking. Having been sober for over a decade, would you agree that there's been a shift in our society's relationship to not drinking? And if you do agree with that thought, where do you see that shift happening?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
No, but I mean, even being in New York, I forget, like, honestly, how legal it actually is in many other states.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
And a lot of us are getting started on our New Year's resolutions.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
It's something that touches everybody, yeah. I wonder, you know, we're talking about all these trends that we're noticing that could be possible factors as to why there's been this rise in sober curiosity, I guess. What has it been like to watch these changes as someone who is 13 years sober?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
And according to Pew, 79% of New Year's resolutions are about one thing, health. But there are so many different aspects to our health, and it's hard to separate fact, fiction, and fad. We're kicking off 2025 with a little series called New Year, New Me. We're getting into some of the big questions and cultural confusion around our health and wellness.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
I could see how that can be a complicated tension to hold, especially as there is like this commodification. There's these new products springing out. I could see what it's kind of like, OK, well, now there's all these people here.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Maybe you've heard, maybe you haven't, but I made a 2025 resolution to bring you more deep dives into what's going on in culture and to keep you up on the latest trends. I'm bringing you a new episode of It's Been a Minute every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. That's right. We get to hang out every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday in this podcast feed. But enough about me. Let's get back to Anna.
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Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Something you've reflected on as a sober person, and I can attest to as a person who just doesn't always feel like drinking, there's like an expectation that alcohol is always going to be central to our social interactions. How does that shape our social lives?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
What might our lives look like if we didn't default to socializing or celebrating specifically with alcohol as a default?
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
Yeah, just some random person. And also you have somewhere to put your hands. Somewhere to put your hands. Whether you're holding a drink, you put it on the bar.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
This week, many people are starting the year off by taking a break from alcohol, at least for this month. Last year, one quarter of American adults participated in Dry January. I've done a few myself, and for many, it is about health. The World Health Organization says there is no amount of alcohol consumption that is safe for our health.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
It's not the point.
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Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
have so many interests and they have like their swim class and their dance class and they're like drawing and they're just like, I'm learning a language. Children with their interests. Yeah. They're always doing stuff. And it's cool.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
I mean, I did a lot of stuff when I was a kid, but I feel like as an adult, I was talking to one of my best friends a couple of weeks ago and she and I were just like, oh, remember hobbies? Remember doing stuff other than going out to eat, going out to have a drink? Remember like doing stuff? And we're going to take a tap dancing class. anywhere, which I'm really excited about. I love it.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
When you have any sort of default and you let go of that, you release that, it leaves a lot of space for new experiences and new opportunities. And I think that that's something that I think a lot of people need, myself, especially in the wintertime.
It's Been a Minute
Sober-curious? Why your friends (and maybe you) are going dry.
We've been discussing how many people are embracing sober curiosity and how there seems to be less of a stigma around deciding not to drink at dinner or during a night out. But there's definitely still a stigma around alcoholism. How can the sober curious or anybody be better allies to those who are in recovery?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
I would love it if Big Boy was there, too. And they're about to be, like, inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I just would love to see the two of them together.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
You know what? I want to see Mahershala Ali. I just feel like that man's face was made for a beautiful hat. Every time he wears a hat, I feel like a tear, like an angel just cries because it's so beautiful.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Well, we will see. We will see. And actually, we will all be back tomorrow to review the best and worst looks of the gala. Y'all are going to be able to fully celebrate and judge who did that. And for y'all listening, be sure to check out this feed tomorrow for this extra special bonus episode. And Shelton, Antoine, thank you both so much for getting into all of this with me.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Great, great, great, great. That was fashion writer Shelton Boyd Griffith and Black Fashion Fair editor-in-chief Antoine Gregory talking about what to watch for at the 2025 Met Gala. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
With the tuxedos and the updo and recalling James Brown.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Absolutely. Absolutely. In practice, it's all about tailoring and exaggerated or flamboyant takes on menswear. We're talking suits with a twist, top hats, traditional menswear with black flair.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
That's because dandyism is rooted in the very first transgressive fashion statements enslaved Black people made when they first set foot in America. We'll get into that later. But first, fashion writer Shelton Boyd Griffith.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And Black Fashion Fair editor-in-chief Antoine Gregory.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And I are going to pretend we're dressing up a celebrity for the Met Gala to give you a better picture of the sophistication and swagger of Black dandyism. Let's pretend you're a stylist and you're dressing someone. Pick any celebrity you want. Anybody. Who would you want to dress and how would you style him?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
I love that. I love that. Especially, I mean, I feel like Black Dandyism shows up so much across how athletes dress. Yeah. But for me, though, I would absolutely want to dress Queen Latifah. Queen Latifah is a Tom Brown girly. Tom Brown queen. Okay. So she's very often wearing something that is structured and kind of referencing menswear anyway.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
I just feel like Queen Latifah would really be it in a full tuxedo with the tails. She would body that. I feel like now that she was at Coachella, I'm like, maybe she'll actually be out and about and want to mix with us. Because she doesn't have to.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Let's talk Met Gala themes for a second. This year, it's Black Dandyism. In the past, it's been punk or camp or something called Heavenly Bodies, which is a celebration of the aesthetics of the Catholic church, which I'll admit, I love that one. But no matter the theme, the thing is sometimes people on the red carpet get it and sometimes people don't.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Do y'all have your scorecards ready? Do you have your live stream links ready to go? Are you ready to judge the rich and famous?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
I'd say Kim Kardashian actually gets it about 30 to 50% of the time. Now, I did think that she did good though with the camp year when she did the full water drop thing. I thought that was incredible.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Right, because for people who don't know, the Met Gala is tied to an annual exhibition at the Met Museum.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
They want to look good. They want to look like their definition of what's good as opposed to... I want to wear my, you know, my gown.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Okay, so I'm wondering, though, with this theme, do you think that black dandyism is something that people are going to know how to interpret? And why or why don't you think so?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Well, I will say, I feel like Vogue has been very intentional about explaining the theme. Like when it was announced last year, some people, even I myself was like, oh, we'll see how this goes. Because sometimes when people want to interpret Black style, they get a little too creative. And also this time around, they have not just their chairs who are chairing the event.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
They also have a hosting committee. I get the feeling that they really want people to understand the theme, maybe even just for plausible deniability in case Kim Kardashian comes through with a do-rag. They could just be like, listen now, we didn't say to do that. That's hilarious. You decided to do that. We'll see who gets the theme right.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And tomorrow, we'll be back in this feed with a special bonus episode rating the best and worst looks of the night. But ahead of the event, I want to get more into the history of the theme, especially with how it relates to this moment. This, after all, is the very first Met Gala theme that explicitly celebrates Black fashion.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
It's been decades of Black people topping the best dress list, and now fashion's biggest night is recognizing Black contributions to fashion. What do you all make of the Costume Institute highlighting a Black fashion lineage in this moment when diversity and inclusion are on the outs?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Hmm. That's something that's been in the back of my mind as well. We're kind of still having these same conversations over and over again within the fashion industry. I have had similarly mixed feelings myself where I'm excited to see someone like Dapper Dan be able to get the spotlight on him. Somebody who was thought of as an enemy to a brand like Louis Vuitton 40 years ago.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
now be featured at this event that's sponsored by Louis Vuitton. But even the tension of that to me is kind of, hmm, you know what I mean? At the end of the day, this big brand still gets to profit from the association with this person whose work they did spend some time trying to suppress decades ago.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Because tonight, we all get to be fashion critics as celebrities and designers show out at the 2025 Met Gala. And this year, I'm here to give you a guidebook for how to judge the best and worst looks of the night. So every year, the Met Gala has a theme. And every year, some people get it and some people just don't. This year's theme is a special one and a bit complicated.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Coming up, Antoine Shelton and I are looking at the history the Met Gala theme is pulling from, from quote unquote luxury slaves, all the way up to the most powerful people at Vogue magazine. Stick around.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Okay, so Monica L. Miller is one of the co-curators of the exhibit at the Met. And she wrote this book about the history of black dandyism. It's called Slaves to Fashion. And in it, she talks about, quote, luxury slaves. Some enslavers treated the young black boys that they enslaved like pets or accessories and dressed them in fancy clothes.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And you can see this in old portraiture featured in the book. As Miller puts it, these boys were, quote, luxury items collected like any other signifier of wealth and status. And on days they were allowed to dress up, some enslaved people would mend or adorn their own clothing with flair.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Sometimes they had these very fashion-forward looks with the clothes they were given or would, quote, borrow from their enslavers. This was one of the only ways enslaved people could express their individuality and bodily autonomy, and even despite some states' sumptuary laws that limited what Black people could wear or how they could style themselves.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Now, that's the starting point for Black dandyism and really Black style, Black fashion in America. How do you see that reaching all the way into this moment in fashion?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
Andre Leontali, for those who don't know, worked at Vogue from 1983 to 2013 and eventually became an editor at large for the magazine.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
It's called Superfine, tailoring black style, and it's a celebration of the black dandy. You might already know what a black dandy is, but if you don't, here's a picture.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And Monica L. Miller talks about this, how the foundation of dandyism is less about following trends and more about self-education, having a deeper knowledge of styles and textiles and culture.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And Miller also writes, better clothing allowed them to pass more easily for free men and to enter the market as consumers, meaning that enslaved people could sell or trade their clothing, using it like financial currency or social currency. And that's something that still exists. It's still a part of the language of how Black people dress today.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
And it's very literally the kind of thing that Andre Leon Talley was talking about in both of his memoirs, like using this self-education, this refinement and style of dress as a means of accessing a different life than the one that he was born into.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
You know, bringing things back to the present, this exhibition is coming at a time when Black men have reached some of the highest levels in the fashion world. You know, I think about the legacy of the late Virgil Abloh and Pharrell Williams, you know, who has brought, I mean, he's something of a Black dandy himself and has brought that Black dandyism styling back.
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
to a new generation, you know, as, you know, the head of Louis Vuitton and Louis Vuitton also co-sponsored this event. I know my answer for this question, but do you think the fashion world has embraced black men truly? Like, is it a full embrace, a hug or handshake?
It's Been a Minute
The Met Gala is tonight, and it's already historic. Here's why.
All right. One last question for y'all. Just for fun. Who do you hope shows up at the Met Gala? And who do you hope stays home? Just to be a little shady. Just to be a little shady. That is hilarious.
It's Been a Minute
Want to be less lonely? Here are five tips.
That was a conversation between Dr. Jeremy Noble and NPR's Alison Aubrey for Life Kit. I highly recommend checking out the show. They have an episode on how to make friends as an adult that really hit home after all these convos about loneliness. You can find those at npr.org slash life kit. This episode of Life Kit was hosted by Marielle Segarra.
It's Been a Minute
Want to be less lonely? Here are five tips.
It was edited by Megan Cain, Carmel Roth, and Jane Greenhalgh. Engineering support came from Joshua Newell, Rebecca Brown, and Phil Edfors. Additional production editing was done by Liam McBain and Jasmine Romero. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Want to be less lonely? Here are five tips.
Thanks to Corinne Averill, Rick Klebanow, and Lisa Stewart for sharing with us. Now, my friends at NPR's Life Kit did some really incredible reporting about how to get out of loneliness too. I wanted to share it with you because I think their advice lines up with a lot of what you all were sharing with me. Here's Mariel Sagara, host of Life Kit.
It's Been a Minute
Want to be less lonely? Here are five tips.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Do you relate? Well, you may be lonely, but you're not alone. One third of Americans report feeling lonely at least once a week. And 16% of Americans report feeling lonely all or most of the time.
It's Been a Minute
Want to be less lonely? Here are five tips.
A lot of attention is being paid to loneliness right now. After the former American Surgeon General declared a loneliness epidemic, news organizations from The New York Times to The Atlantic to NPR jumped to cover it. And it's hard to say definitively if loneliness has gotten worse. But what we do know is that a significant amount of people are feeling it.
It's Been a Minute
Want to be less lonely? Here are five tips.
And I know a lot of you have been feeling lonely too. That's because so many of you wrote to me sharing your own stories about loneliness and how you got out of it. It was really incredible how many of you responded. It really showed, I guess, how not alone we all are in our loneliness and that there's no one way to reconnect with people. Here's what just a few of you said.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
So I think that, you know, not holding ourselves to some standard of being, you know, I'm a machine that has to finish 500 pages by, you know, such and such date, because then it becomes just another chore slash it becomes just another kind of gamified or kind of optimized activity, you know, at a time when we are surrounded by sort of pulls to optimize every part of our lives.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
The thing that gets you out of fatigue is not someone, you know, cracking a whip at you and being like, we'll read more peon. Like, well, no. You can have marathon reading and enjoy that and tear through books. Or you can just be like, you know what? I'm spending this year with...
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
To jump right in, according to a Gallup survey from 2022, Americans are reading fewer books per year than ever before. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics Time Use Survey, the time people spend reading has dropped steadily over the past 20 years. What do you think is behind this decline? What are the main factors here?
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
The first chapter of War and Peace, and that's what I'm doing, and I'm not holding myself to more than that, and I'm just going to really live in that world. The word, I think it was you that used it, Brittany, was intentional. The care that we can put into reading intentionally will ultimately help
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
do what I think all of us are looking for when we're trying to recover from fatigue, which is to renew ourselves to the world, you know, to feel like, oh, I don't feel like a sack of potatoes or like a desiccated corpse of myself. I actually feel and believe and think things again.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
My imagination is working again because, you know, in the face of all of the kind of addictive algorithms, et cetera, sometimes I think of readers as like, conservationists in which the endangered habitat we're thinking about is our imaginations.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
My gosh, Elaine, Abdullah, this has been such a great conversation. You all have me so reinvigorated and so hyped up to read. Like, thank you so much.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Thank you so much for having us. That was Elaine Castillo, author of the book How to Read Now, and Abdullah Shihibar, research associate at the People, Place, and Health Collective at Brown University. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
I think sometimes the issue I have with the way that the supposed decline in reading is framed is that massive corporations have essentially captured the capacities in us for reading, which is to say our attention, our capacity for critical thinking, imaginative thinking, all of which are things that are baked into us, into our code, into our evolutionary processes.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
you know, selves the desire to information forage, but that innate code in us has essentially been captured. And maybe I'm using this metaphor because I'm currently on a sobriety journey, but a lot of it is really about thinking of that type of doom scrolling and the algorithms that go with it as essentially putting some of us in a kind of
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Active addiction, because it offers a kind of momentary dopamine hit or momentary pleasure, essentially for the enrichment of the wealthiest people in the world. I'm saying this, hopefully it's coming across with compassion, because I'm also speaking about myself. Massive corporations have... eaten into the time that might otherwise be spent reading.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
But at the same time, they replace reading, but they're not replacing the restorative aspects, the way that it works on our brain, reading books versus doom scrolling. So it's an illusory kind of replacement of that impulse in us.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. In the words of RuPaul, Reading is what? Fundamental. But are we losing our grasp on it? Our ability to read books, or our lack thereof, has been in the zeitgeist lately.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
That's really interesting. I 100% understand. To open up about myself a little bit, I am 37. I had a television, cable television with a remote in my bedroom from age six to like, I don't know, maybe through the first two years of college. Then after that, I have never had television in my bedroom ever again.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
I grew up watching a ton of TV, but I maintained a reading habit really strong, no matter what was happening with me having a television in my bedroom. My reading got troubled once I got a smartphone, and then it really went downhill once I got TikTok. For me, the phone is the thing. But Abdullah, I'm wondering, why is it harder to read than to watch TV or to scroll on social media brain-wise?
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Yeah, I mean, screen time is an issue that people of all ages face, but I hear it brought up constantly in regards to kids and young people. Abdullah, you said something really interesting to our producer Liam in your pre-interview about how you see less of an emphasis on reading, even for young people. Is the culture around reading different now?
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
There's been some viral reporting on college kids struggling to finish longer texts. I've seen multiple posts on X where adults are bemoaning their waning attention spans and asking for advice on how to read books again. I mean, you know we're cooked when Oxford's 2024 word of the year was brain rot. I'll say for myself, I've been there.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
but also even thinking about how adults interact with reading now. I think it's something you have to be a little bit more intentional about now because it's so much easier to indulge in other kinds of media intake. To me, reading also kind of feels more like niche hobby. Like there are strong communities of people who read a lot who are on social media, on BookTok or BookTube.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
But our producer Liam mentioned that he thinks reading might be going the way of sewing, like something that used to be a more widely utilized skill, but is becoming kind of a niche pastime.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
I would prefer reading not to become a niche activity. I'd prefer... social media and apps to become like smoking or sort of repetitive head injury that they come with certain general warnings. I appreciate the ambition.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
So when AI did the reading for them, their comprehension went down. And when AI did the writing for them, comprehension went down even more.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
I love to read, but I feel like I've really had to work to be able to enjoy books like I used to. And the data says the same thing. Polls from Gallup and the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that Americans are spending less time reading than ever. So I wanted to know, why is that?
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
You know, it's interesting you bring up AI. One of the things about AI that has been confounding to me are the types of tasks that are being used as selling points to consumers. When I think about problems that humankind needs help with, I don't know if reading is at the top of my list.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
The thing that scares me the most around AI and how we use it is that we ourselves are prepared to abdicate our own humanity and our capacity to read, to contemplate, to wrestle with difficult concepts, to imagine our lives and the lives of others, to read the terms and conditions of our own lives, essentially.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Because it is work to think critically, to practice media literacy, and to do the kinds of things that ultimately build a soul. But I think for centuries and centuries, literacy has been a thing viewed as hostile by people in power, right? That there's a capacity for defiance that's built into reading. Why? Because you're able to critically understand...
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
the world around you, the world in which you find yourself, because you're able to imagine other people's lives. And if you're able to imagine other people's lives, you're also less likely to dehumanize those lives because you've built the capacity in yourself to imagine them.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
And if you've built the capacity in yourself to imagine other people's lives, that means you've also built the capacity in yourself to imagine your own life differently. doing the kind of work that restores you to being able to imagine the world differently is defiant.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
There's so many good observations you just shared. To talk more about what you mentioned with literacy and literacy education, I recently learned that around half of American adults read below a sixth grade level, and 21% of US adults are illiterate or functionally illiterate. So, you know, This is not new.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
And it's not always an issue of whether or not people want to read, but rather, if they can at all. And to say more about this, only about a third of illiterate American adults were born elsewhere. That's not a comment about literacy rates elsewhere. But to point out that the majority of illiterate American adults ostensibly had some kind of interaction with the American school system.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
So how is the school system failing so many people?
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
The desire to information forage. That innate code in us has essentially been captured.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Coming up, sure, reading is fun, but can it literally extend your life?
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
What do we as people miss out on when people stop reading books?
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
It's incredibly pleasurable and innately fun. to us to be in intimacy and imagine lives that aren't our own. And it's also such a gift to be able to spend time, even when we're in isolation, with the shape of another person's mind. Over the summer, I read for the first time The Lord of the Rings. I'd never read that series ever. I'm now like a Tolkien stan.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
And really annoying people around me because I'm like, have you heard of this up and coming writer, J.R.R. Tolkien? So then I went down a rabbit hole of reading his essays. And there's a really beautiful essay that he's written called On Fairy Stories.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
But he talks about the joy of the happy ending and that the point of the fairy story or what he calls eucatastrophe, which is to say sudden and miraculous grace, you know, happy ending, consolation. which is contrasted to die catastrophe, sorrow, failure, poverty, loss. And die catastrophe are the things that people are wanting to escape from. I mean, Tolkien himself was in the First World War.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
That's Elaine Castillo, author of the book, How to Read Now. Hello, thank you for having me. I'm also joined by Abdullah Shihipar, research associate at the People, Place and Health Collective at Brown University. I'm happy to be here. Thanks so much. They are here to walk me through the battle for our brains, how reading helps develop our souls, and what we can do to get our reading grooves back.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
So the happy ending, or eucatastrophe, as he puts it, is a sudden and miraculous grace never counted on to recur. And it doesn't deny the existence of... you know, sorrow, failure, absolute loss. But what it does deny is universal final defeat. What it offers us is a glimpse, a fleeting glimpse of joy, joy beyond the walls of the world, as poignant as grief.
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
That is what we get when we read and when we truly connect with stories that we know will matter to us and that we know will change us. We get that glimpse of joy beyond the walls of the world or beyond the walls of the smartphone or whatever the walls of the contemporary world.
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
I also wonder about like the health benefits of reading. Like why might reading be good for us as like human beings?
It's Been a Minute
Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Part of the reason why people have been talking so much about reading, I think, also is because it's top of the year. You know what I mean? Everyone's feeling a little bit like a sack of potatoes. So I'm not surprised that people are thinking a lot about reading now. But for people who want to get back into reading, how can they do it?
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Books vs. Brain Rot: why it's so hard to read
Well, I completely agree. Each book is its own kind of individual time dilator, right? And there are some books that you're like, I'm flying through this. I'm finishing it yesterday. And there are some books that want you to spend... hours and hours or days on one page.
It's Been a Minute
Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
She's focusing here on heterosexual relationships and found that women are prioritizing other parts of life, like buying property, investing in their careers, and developing friendships because they're not finding what they're looking for in the dating pool. And the numbers back it up. Women are more educated, more liberal, and typically have a much lower opinion of single men than vice versa.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
And as a result, fewer and fewer women are choosing to march down the aisle. So what does it mean that men increasingly want to get married and women don't? And what consequences does this have beyond just having a bad date? So to start off, what does it mean that American women are hitting a breaking point and aren't all that pressed to get married anymore?
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Minda, I'll hear from you on this first.
It's Been a Minute
Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Okay, y'all, today you and I are connecting the dots between Steve Harvey, a.k.a. Something Old, the latest season of Love is Blind, a.k.a. Something New, credit cards, a.k.a. Something Borrowed, and women's disappointment, a.k.a.
It's Been a Minute
Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Yeah. Rachel, talk to us about your research.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
It's interesting that you bring up what young people are thinking about when it comes to dating and relationships. I mean, I think about some of the messages that I got as a young adult from, for instance, Steve Harvey. And look, I think Steve Harvey is very funny. I think he is the perfect host for Family Feud.
It's Been a Minute
Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
But I don't know if he should have been giving dating advice in his book, Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man. He was definitely a part of a chorus of voices, but I don't know if that was necessarily the best resource.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Now, marriage has long been considered an ideal to aspire to, especially for women, as it was historically a pathway to economic security. Rachel, I wonder, how did we get here then where so many American women are like, eh, about marriage?
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
I love hearing your reporting on this, the statistics and the data, and almost sociological breakdown of what's going on, because it's something that I've heard anecdotally from friends and loved ones for a long time now.
It's Been a Minute
Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Yeah. Part of the reason why, for many women, dating is just not working is because of this return of old school gender roles. Why are these old school gender roles making a resurgence in today's dating scene? And what's leading women to say, uh-uh? No, thank you.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Something Blue. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected? Well, we are going to find out with Rachel Wolf. She's an economics reporter for The Wall Street Journal and author Minda Honey, who has written about power and relationships in Los Angeles Review of Books, The Washington Post, and in her memoir, The Heartbreak Years. Rachel, Minda, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
That is a big, big, big reframe. I think that idea that men of our generation are perhaps the first to grow up in a world where it's not assumed that they will have that kind of financial upper hand is a really important reframe.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
It's like a whole value system. Exactly. Coming up... What have you learned is driving this political gap between men and women?
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
I think for many people who are big reality TV fans like me, this came to a head in the most recent season of the Netflix show Love is Blind. On this season, there were several couples wherein the women and the men had serious foundational political differences with society. The men being much more conservative and subscribing to those old school gender roles, or at least wanting to.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Thank you so much for having me. Thanks so much. So just really quick, what do you think? In our year of 2025, is marriage in or is it out?
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
And the women being more on the liberal end of things. This culminated in, you know, people deciding not to marry each other when they finally got to their wedding decision day. And also a totally viral clip from one of the women who was on this season who decided to share the specifics of the differences that she had politically with her fiancé from the show.
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Okay, Amanda says in. What do you say, Rachel?
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Is marriage worth it? Single women say no.
Okay, see, this is what I love. Point, counterpoint. Well, that question is more and more something that American women are asking themselves. This past week, Rachel published a report in the Wall Street Journal titled American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage. And y'all, when I say I could not click that link fast enough.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
All right, I'll accept the cop out. I'll accept the cop out.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Luckily, this isn't a battle at all. It's just a good old conversation about what could happen to our nation's education system if former WWE CEO and co-founder Linda McMahon is confirmed as the Secretary of Education. And to start,
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
The non-answer. The non-answer. Yes. Okay, so to bring this all full circle, we've been dancing around this idea that Trump has long been closely connected to the owners of the WWE, that he loves wrestling. And in some ways, he and his allies have adopted the WWE's playbook. To close this conversation,
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
What does the connection between all these dots say about what is real and what is fake in the debate over the future of the Department of Education?
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Gosh, well, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Corey, Josie, I have learned so much here. I have really appreciated talking to you both. Thank you both so much.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Yeah, thank you. That was NPR's education correspondent, Corey Turner, and New York Times bestselling author, Josephine Reisman. Her book about Vince McMahon and the WWE is called Ringmaster, Vince McMahon and the Unmaking of America. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Barton Girdwood. Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
I want you to remember this, that for every time President Trump does something unprecedented, he's also doing something that's been done over and over and over again in American politics. Because just like fashion, our politics are always getting recycled. And right now, what's getting rehashed is a nearly half-centuries-old debate over the U.S. Department of Education.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Now, for those of you who don't know, the Department of Education was established under President Jimmy Carter in 1979. And the very next year, in 1980, when Ronald Reagan was running for president, he pledged to dismantle it, calling the department President Carter's new bureaucratic boondoggle. Gotta bring that word back, boondoggle. Just listen to Reagan's State of the Union address in 1982.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Sounds a lot like President Trump when he pledged to close the department in office and on the campaign trail.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Republicans have been dogging the Department of Education for decades, but none of them have ever actually dismantled it. Because when it comes down to it, they do seem to like it. So today, I want us to look at this love-hate relationship Republicans have for the department and how this debate looks a lot like a WWE wrestling match. How it's real and how it isn't. So, Corey, help me out here.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
What do Republicans hate about the Department of Education?
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, everybody. This week, you and I are connecting the dots between public education, Ronald Reagan, and the WWE. I know. I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Now, on the flip side, what do Republicans love about the Department of Education?
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Right. Just from population density. Right.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Well, to stay on this topic of love, hate, tension, that specific tension was on full display at the confirmation hearing for President Trump's pick for education secretary, Linda McMahon. Josie, you've written a whole book about Linda's husband, Vince McMahon, and his reign over his company, World Wrestling Entertainment, aka the WWE.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Vince McMahon has been in the limelight for decades. Much more so than Linda, though she has been a part of storylines on the WWE.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
I want to know, what do we need to know about Linda McMahon? And since she's slated to be the next secretary of education, can you tell us, like, who is she? What's her worldview?
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Hmm. Corey, is there anything significant that you reflect on that you learned about Linda McMahon during this hearing? Um,
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Well, we are going to find out with NPR's education correspondent, Corey Turner, and bestselling author, Josephine Reisman. Corey, Josie, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Oh, it's great to be here. Perfect.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Yeah, I was going to say that sounds like a non-answer. Okay, okay. Now, I want to take us back to something you brought up a minute ago, Josie. The fact that Donald Trump and Linda and Vince McMahon have known each other for a very long time, since the 1980s. Yeah. Basically, since the time... that the Department of Education was born.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Obviously, that meeting has led to a lengthy relationship. I mean, Trump appeared in a WWE wrestling match.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Josie, you know, for you having researched the McMahons and Trump's long history together, what's an example of how Trump and the McMahons share a similar worldview? I mean, I don't know. I've heard you say before that Trump answers Vince McMahon's phone calls differently than Coming up, how Trump answers one McMahon's phone calls differently than almost anyone else.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Who these people are and what that says about the future of our education system. After a quick break.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
Okay, so which one of these battles do you think you are more likely to win? A congressional confirmation hearing or a WWE wrestling showdown? I myself personally, the showdown, I think I would win. I think I have big face energy. To use some wrestling terminology, I think I have big face energy.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Josie, for you having researched the McMahons and Trump's long history together, what's an example of how Trump and the McMahons share a similar worldview? I mean, I don't know. I've heard you say before that Trump answers... Vince McMahon's phone calls differently. Well, at least used to.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Gosh, thinking about the length of this relationship, you know, starting in the 80s and extending all the way to today, fast-forwarding to the presidential election, 2024, last year, Josie, there was this moment when we saw... The intersection between education policy and the WWE and Trump and the WWE wrestler The Undertaker all converge in a surprising way just mere days before the election.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I don't want to assume, but I don't know if everybody who's listening to this show is an Undertaker listener as well.
It's Been a Minute
The WWE vs. the American education system
And to be clear, all of this frustration over Title IX is because the Biden administration expanded Title IX to include protections for transgender students. And as we all know, Republicans were extremely energized by this. Anti-trans rhetoric became a rallying cry for the Trump campaign.
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The WWE vs. the American education system
But Corey, all this anger and frustration Republicans have at Title IX over transgender rights is kind of moot at this point, right? Yeah.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Well, I should say some clinicians think that this high top model is also flawed and would point out that there isn't any empirical evidence that shows it would work better than the DSM. But regardless, what are the consequences of so much personal and cultural investment in diagnoses or in any particular diagnostic system?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Thank you both so much for this conversation. I really appreciate learning from you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, thank you so much. That was culture journalist Kelly Maria Korducky and Manvir Singh, assistant professor of anthropology at UC Davis.
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a minute and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood.
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
all these online voices start to make it seem like anything could be a sign of a diagnosis. Now, I'm not trying to say ADHD looks one way or that it can't affect many parts of people's lives. Trust me, it affects many parts of mine. But this all has me wondering, what happens when a diagnosis goes viral?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
And when people say, oh, that sounds like me, how do you separate personal identity from a diagnosable condition? So Kelly, Monvir, a lot to get into, but I wanna first focus on adults. Adult ADHD diagnoses have soared in recent years. Count me in that number. Kelly, your reporting showed that there was over a 100% increase. What's going on here? Why the increase?
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, y'all. This week, we are connecting the dots between TikTok, a neurological diagnosis, and that food molding in the back of your fridge. don't think these things are connected?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Hmm. I definitely hear what you're saying about the possibility for kind of, this isn't an elegant term, almost like a market correction for people who maybe previously should have been diagnosed and were not. Like you said, women, people of color, check, check. That definitely, I think, was a little bit a part of probably what happened with me.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Like I had a teacher reach out to my mom about me having inattentive actually, not hyperactive, but like inattentive ADHD symptoms when I was like in kindergarten. We didn't come back around to that for about another 28 years, but it's all good. But what benefits do people see from getting a diagnosis?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Yeah. I mean, I've seen some of that play out for sure online, but also, I mean... ADHD content more broadly is super popular online. Like on TikTok, ADHD and related hashtags have garnered hundreds of millions of views. The Reddit thread r slash ADHD grew from like 643,000 subscribers at the start of the pandemic to over 2 million today.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Kelly, you wrote a piece in The Guardian about this, and I was really into your idea of separating the neurological disorder of ADHD from hashtag ADHD as a quote, algorithmic content incentive and affirmation of experience. Why do we need to separate those two things?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Yeah. Like a lot of creators are making videos discussing their symptoms, and some of them are backed by science and others are not. There's a bigger list that clinicians use, but some of the recognized symptoms of ADHD include task avoidance, easy distraction, forgetfulness, and fidgeting. But I also saw, you know, a bunch of TikToks about how people with ADHD like...
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
have a hard time doing fridge management. Like that's its own symptom. You know, what food is in your fridge, how long it's been in there, making sure your nice produce isn't going bad and the takeout leftovers are moldering in the back. And I'll say that's not a problem for me. And I also know a lot of people who don't have ADHD who struggle with fridge management for whatever reason.
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
And one study found that over a third of the claims about ADHD on social media weren't related at all to ADHD or even other diagnoses, but were instead just, quote, reflecting normal human experience. This study, to me, suggests perhaps people are over-pathologizing aspects of their own lives. But what I really don't understand is what do they get out of this? Like, why do people...
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Well, Kelly, Manvir, and I are here to prove it to you. Kelly Maria Korducky is a culture journalist, and Manvir Singh is a professor of anthropology at UC Davis. Kelly, Manvir, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for having us. I am so thrilled to have you both here. So to set the scene, let me share some videos that have been popping up on my social feed lately.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
What diagnosis and what does it add to their identity?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
You know, I've seen a couple of writers describe what's going on as quote unquote diagnosis culture.
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
And going off of what you just said about diagnosis becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, I think some people might use it as a full explanation for what's going on in their lives at the expense of thinking about how their personal history might factor in or even thinking about some social or systemic reasons why people might find it hard to cope with their lives. What do you think about that?
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Coming up, is the diagnostic system itself the problem?
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
Some researchers say that even with this increase in diagnoses, ADHD is still underdiagnosed specifically for people of color and women. And I think that that can be true, but there are also business incentives that go along with these cultural incentives to see ADHD in everyone.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
You know, like there is one telehealth company accused of and another whose executives have been criminally charged with distributing Adderall and other ADHD drugs to patients who didn't need them in order to allegedly boost bottom lines and keep patient retention. Also, it bears mentioning that a lot of these drugs are addictive.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
How do we balance getting people with ADHD the help they need with not allowing situations like this to arise?
It's Been a Minute
Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
For people who don't know, the DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders, which is the book that doctors use to diagnose people for all kinds of mental health issues and disorders. Right.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
But speaking to the issues with it, even after getting diagnosed myself, I noticed so many discrepancies between how that process happened for me and how that process happened for other people I know who got diagnosed with ADHD. I had to jump through way more hoops. That's kind of when I had an inkling that maybe the diagnostic tools that we have are not perfect.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
These are all from the hashtag ADHD. And these kinds of videos from how to self-diagnose to how to manage a diagnosis are all over social feeds. And one study found that over a third of the claims about ADHD on social media weren't related at all to ADHD or even other diagnoses, but were instead just, quote, reflecting normal human experience.
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
So what would a better model look like?
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
For example, everyone is on a spectrum between not socially anxious and really socially anxious. And there's some point along the spectrum where clinicians might say someone needs therapeutic help for it, right? And there are all kinds of traits people have that exist on these lines, and some of them are related. And looking at
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Think you have ADHD? Here's why so many of us are saying yes.
All these dimensions more holistically can help us sort out what's going on with a person and, you know, what interventions might help them rather than a label that might not fully explain people's symptoms.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Thank you. That was defectors Samer Kalaf and the guardians Mona Chalabi. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
I can't say I relate to Pep, but when I needed her, she was there for me, repeating the same words over and over again. This week, we are connecting the dots between the children in your life, humanitarian aid, and your First Amendment rights. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Well, we're going to find out with Defector Managing Editor Samer Khalaf and the Guardian's Data Editor Mona Chalabi. Samer, Mona, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
So today we are discussing someone who needs no introduction.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Outside of her show, Ms. Rachel, whose full name is Rachel Acurso, has also advocated on Instagram for the safety of children around the world, including Israeli children who were taken hostage in the October 7th attacks and children suffering in Gaza, which she doubled down on in an interview with journalist Mehdi Hassan.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
And this week, she posted again to her Instagram, making another plea for empathy.
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
But let's go back a bit. Last month, a privately funded pro-Israel advocacy organization called Stop Antisemitism asked the Department of Justice to investigate whether Ms. Rachel was being paid by Hamas to share her messages on social media. For the record, Ms. Rachel has denied receiving any funding from Hamas.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
But these accusations have reignited conversations surrounding what constitutes antisemitism. And in light of the fatal shooting of two Israeli embassy workers in D.C. on Wednesday night, people are feeling scared. But the blowback against Ms. Rachel makes me wonder why some people feel like stopping anti-Semitism and wanting health and safety for Palestinian people are mutually exclusive.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Since October 2023, at least 15,000 children have been killed in Gaza. Around 17,000 have been orphaned. The World Health Organization says the entire 2.1 million population of Gaza is facing prolonged food shortages, with nearly half a million people facing acute malnutrition, starvation, illness, and death. And of course, children are the most vulnerable to these atrocities.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Today, we are talking children's TV characters. Who is the GOAT?
It's Been a Minute
Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Samer, Mona, why is advocating for the safety of all children causing all of this commotion?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Disproportionate in the sense that some critics feel like she's posting too much about Palestinian kids.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Mona, I'd like to hear from you on this. Why do you think people are up in arms about Ms. Rachel right now?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
I mean, one of the critiques of Ms. Rachel right now is that she hasn't been staying in her lane as a children's TV star every time she speaks up specifically about the health and welfare of children in Gaza. What do you make of this critique?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
You know, she's used her platform to speak out against the bombing and starvation, systematic oppression of children in Gaza right now. Why do you think she is receiving backlash, though, if the messaging isn't on the show or in the songs themselves? Like, this is something she's doing in places that typically children are not going to see it. Like, she did an interview with Zateo Essimo with CNN.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
You know, this is happening on her Instagram. The children that she's singing to are very small, like they're not going to see these things or hear these messages. I wonder why is the backlash so strong if children aren't really being exposed to this?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Stay with us. Speaking of headline-worthy, all of this hullabaloo has attracted the attention of major news organizations. Obviously, we're talking NPR right now, but also The New York Times, who spoke with Ms. Rachel directly, or at least corresponded with Ms. Rachel directly through email. The New York Times said that in an emailed response to the publication's request for questions, Ms.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Rachel denied having received money from Hamas. What do you make of that, Samar?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
And look at you now.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
It paid off. I have a character who I did not grow up with at all. It's Peppa Pig. I love Peppa Pig's attitude. Listen, listen. I'll explain why. I have a personal connection. Because I have been taking Spanish tutoring for the past year and a half.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Like, it sounds like the claim was completely unfounded. I haven't seen any evidence that would indicate that it would be something that a journalist would need to follow up on.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Hmm. Hmm. I mean, at the end of the day, it blows my mind that a very popular... children's entertainer from YouTube and Netflix, had to deal with unfounded accusations of having ties to Hamas. But that is actually in line with the Heritage Foundation's Project Esther, brought to you by the makers of Project 2025.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Project Esther is basically a plan to characterize dissent against Israel's actions as support for Hamas, really conflating two things that are literally different. What do you make of this?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Right, right. Like just because you might not agree with Zionism doesn't mean you're necessarily anti-Semitic. And you're right. A lot of Jewish community members are also speaking up on behalf of the health and welfare of Palestinian people. I mean, the situation for children in Gaza is so dire right now.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Just this week, United Nations humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher described the situation on the ground as, quote, catastrophic. Also, he said that the Israeli blockade was putting 14,000 babies specifically, not just 14,000 children, 14,000 babies at risk of dying in the next 48 hours. And this was on Tuesday that he said that.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
One of the things that was suggested to me when I was like starting off was that I should watch children's programming to kind of like, you know, get into, you know. And so I started watching Peppa Cerdo on YouTube. Yeah.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
I guess I always consider the health and welfare of children to be one of those causes that everyone could get behind. Why is talking about the health and welfare of children suddenly so controversial?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
You know, Miss Rachel, a beloved American-born children's entertainer, like this bubbly woman, she's got her little headband on, she's got her overalls, she's wearing pink. If she can't talk about kids wanting to be safe, what are the freedom of speech implications for the rest of us?
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
Well, I mean, literally the pope, I think, actually just called again for the Israeli blockade to end. I renew my heartfelt appeal to allow the entry of dignified humanitarian aid and to put an end to the hostilities whose heartbreaking price is paid by the children, elderly and the sick. So, yeah, I mean, this is something that the Pope is calling for as well.
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Why can't we (or Ms. Rachel) talk about Gaza's children dying?
And he also specifically mentioned children. Mona, Samer, I'm really grateful that you both came on to talk to me today. I really learned so much in this conversation. I really appreciated your time. Thank you so much.
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
But without further ado, the final question.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
It is not a health policy question. Okay. Which of these is Meghan's last name? By Meghan, I mean the princess married to Prince Harry. Is it A, Markle, as in Meghan Markle? Is it B, Duchess of Sussex, as in Meghan, Duchess of Sussex? Or is it C, Harry, as in Meghan and Harry?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
I didn't wear business casual to the club. The sheer, the spandex, the thigh-high boots. Wow. I was Miss in the streets for real.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Oh, it was A. The answer is technically, according to Megan, B, Duchess of Sussex.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
This is interesting. According to Megan herself, she refers to herself as Sussex. That's according to her on her new Netflix series. There is this scene. It is one of the most bizarre.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
She does poppers. Well, she and Mindy Kaling make a... So she and Mindy Kaling, Mindy Kaling's her guest, and she's showing Mindy Kaling how to cook or make something. And Mindy keeps referring to Megan as Megan Markle. But then Megan, very awkwardly, very stressfully, corrects Mindy and says, you know, I'm Sussex now. This is our family name.
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
And in fact, Sussex is actually what appears on her passport.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
And if she invites you, she'll correct you. She'll show Mindy Kaling. She doesn't care how famous you are. All right. Well, that's it for But Did You Know? For this week, congratulations to Alex on your win. Oh my gosh.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Wow. And Selena, Alex, thank you both so much for joining me today.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
All right. That was NPR's Selena Simmons Duffin and Vox's Alex Abad-Santos. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR.
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
But I really was a 365 party girl. Wow. Well, 365 party girl is, of course, a reference to my favorite brat, Charlie XCX. We'll come back to her later. But first, let me set the scene for this conversation. Last week, the FDA allegedly raided businesses who produce amyl nitrite, aka poppers.
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we are connecting the dots between gas stations, RFK Jr., and Charlie XCX. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Poppers are a liquid chemical compound typically found in tiny bottles, and the chemical is sometimes used by doctors to treat heart conditions. But when huffed as an inhalant, it gives people a euphoric high that lasts for a few minutes. Now, poppers have been around for over half a century and have existed in a legal gray zone for decades.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
But over the past decade, they've gotten more and more popular. So popular that you can find them at a bodega or a gas station. So why is the FDA apparently so interested in stopping their production? And does that have to do with who uses poppers the most? So question, Alex, who uses poppers and how prevalent is their use?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Yes, yes. I mean, you can still see that image surfacing on social media today. And then there is Charlie's touring mate, the gay Australian pop star, Troye Sivan, love his music, whose global hit from 2023, Rush, loved it. That was my husband's song of the summer, by the way, Rush, in 2023. But Rush was named after the most popular popper's brand, which is also called Rush.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
All of this shows how ingrained poppers are in gay culture, but also how their reach goes beyond gay culture. kind of making their way into the broader culture. Talk to us about poppers as a cultural symbol, Alex.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
So this all kicked off last week when the poppers company Double Scorpio posted a statement to their website saying that they had been raided by the FDA and had to basically shut down their business. for the time being. But I wonder, Selena, why did or why might the FDA allegedly go after this poppers producer, Double Scorpio? Like, is there something dangerous about poppers use?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
I'm curious why poppers might even be on the FDA's radar.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Like a little bit of a panic around misuse.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Well, we are going to find out with NPR's health policy correspondent, Selena Simmons-Duffin, and Vox Senior Culture correspondent, Alex Abad-Santos. Selena, Alex, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Hi.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
I mean, the thing I keep thinking about also is that he's not necessarily alone in thinking that. Like Joe Rogan and NFL quarterback Aaron Rodgers have both echoed similar claims in high profile media appearances. Like, I don't know. I wonder, like, is this all pointing to a new era of HIV and AIDS denialism? Yeah.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
It's good to have you, Selena, for the first time. It's good to have you back, Alex. Yes.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Yes. Well, first of all, I got to ask y'all just a little icebreaker. So do... Either of you identify as a 365 party girl?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
You know, a lot of people have expressed concern that this was yet another red flag from our current administration, that the government was targeting queer people. I wonder, how does cracking down on a substance, consciously or unconsciously, function as a crackdown on culture?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Selena, Alex, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Yeah, great to be here.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
And as a thank you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a game with the two of you. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer? Oh, yeah, for sure. Sure. Love it. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, What Did You Know? Stick around.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
All right, all right. We are going to play a round of But Did You Know? Here's how it works. I'm going to share three pop culture moments from the past week and ask you trivia related to each. This game is multiple choice means the right answers in there somewhere. And the first person to blurt out the right answer gets a point person. The most points wins and their prize is bragging rights.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Are you ready to find out who really knows what's going on this week?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Great. Let's do it. All right. Question number one. This past week, Donatella Versace stepped down from her post as chief creative officer for Versace. She's done a lot in her 30 years at the company, but which of these internet staples did she inspire? A, Apple iMessage, B, Instagram Stories, or C, Google Images?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Well, Alex, you're correct. The answer is C, Google Images. Back in February 2000, Donatello Versace put Jennifer Lopez's And that iconic blue and green jungle print dress for the Grammys. And so many people searched for the image on the internet that Google was like, oh my God, we need to have an image section in our search engine. And thus Google Images was born.
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
And that's all according to Google itself. We really do owe so much to Donatella. So thank you, Donatella. Thank you. Good for her. All right. Next question. It turns out the rumors were true. This week, which of these musicians went public with their alleged relationship? Was it A, Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars, B, Lucy Dacus and Julian Baker, or C, Kendrick Lamar and SZA?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
A 0-1-2 party girl. Yeah, a 0-1-2 party girl. I'm retired. I refer to myself as a retired 365 party girl. I really did used to be a 365 party girl.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
So yes, B. Well, the answer is B. You're both technically right, but Alex, you were first. Lucy Dacus and Julian Baker. The two gals are bandmates in the band Boy Genius alongside Phoebe Bridgers, to which I say I love love and I wish them all the happiness. Although I have never listened to Boy Genius.
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Right. I was watching the video this morning. Relationships. I was like, this is so good. This is so good. I got a question. Which two musicians do either of you wish would announce that they were dating?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Yeah, like matchmaker. Let's matchmake or start a rumor. Who do you wish would say they were dating?
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Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Okay, I love this gossip because it sounds plausible. Right? They're very close. I love this matchmaking because I'm like, yeah, that sounds plausible. I'm into that. What about you, Alex?
It's Been a Minute
Poppers, the FDA, & a crackdown decades in the making
Oh, my God. Beyonce would have Rihanna up every day. She'd be like, get up, girl. Get in the studio. All right. Well, to recap the score, Selena, you are at zero points. And Alex, you are at two points.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Well, Jay, you were right. The answer is Daniel Tiger. Yes, I have littles in my life, so I know. There's a song that I still know from that show. When accidents happen, you should tell someone and it can help. I watched it with my niece and I was like, yo, and then we were able to use it later that day. It's very cute, very effective, super helpful. Very effective.
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Artists vs. the White House
Well, the show Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood, an animated series for kids, has run since 2012 and centers on the tiger's adventures in the neighborhood of make-believe. There you go. All right. Well, that's it for But Did You Know? for this week. Congratulations to Jay on your win. I'll take it. Yes. And Joan, Jay, thank you both so much for joining me today.
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Artists vs. the White House
Truly. That was Paper Magazine's Joan Summers and New York Times Magazine's Jay Wortham. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose. Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Let's get into it. Over the past couple of weeks, there's been some major leadership changes at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, a major cultural institution in Washington, D.C. that promotes the arts through nationwide programming, scholarships, events, and more.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
And by honoring artists from Aretha Franklin to Stephen Sondheim, the Kennedy Center has become a symbol of the best the American performing arts community has to offer. The center has historically been run by a bipartisan board of trustees, but last week, President Trump replaced 18 members of the Kennedy Center board with his own picks.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
The new board then unanimously voted the president as chairman of the Kennedy Center for the first time in the center's history. For the record, President Trump, as of last week, said he had never been to the Kennedy Center and never attended the Kennedy Center honors during his first term as president.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
In the aftermath of this whole upheaval at the Kennedy Center, several artists have cut ties with the institution, from TV and film producer Shonda Rhimes to opera superstar Renee Fleming. Dancers have protested outside the building, specifically citing their concerns about the institution's future.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
And now with the nation's highest elected official at the helm of the nation's premier cultural institution that, again, it hosts lots of performances, but also provides scholarship, education, all these other opportunities outside the building, right? What does that signal for the broader arts community nationwide?
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Artists vs. the White House
But first, Joan, for the average Joe or Junie, why is the Kennedy Center important? Because I'll be honest, before, you know, when I was just a wee one and I was living, you know, in Michigan, I didn't think about the Kennedy Center that much. But I do know it's a large and important organization. But explain to listeners why.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we're connecting the dots between the NFL, Aretha Franklin, and authoritarianism. I know. I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
So no president, no president has taken an active leadership role with the Kennedy Center since it opened in 1971. So we're in uncharted territory right now. What are the implications of having a government-run or even government-influenced national cultural center? Jay, I'd love to hear from you first on this.
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Artists vs. the White House
We're discussing kind of what this shift or this change means for us here in America. But I mean, thinking about the world, right? The U.S. exports a lot of things. One of our biggest exports is American culture, and that includes art, movies, TV, music. American culture has created a lot of soft power, right?
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Artists vs. the White House
What does that power have the potential to look like in the hands of the Trump administration?
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
I will say it was a big improvement from the 2017 inauguration 100%. Was it Jackie Evancho was the big headliner? This time, Carrie Underwood is a step up. Yeah. I'm being serious.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Yeah, she definitely faced her fair share of criticism before the performance. She had technical difficulties during the performance. And then after the performance, Carrie Underwood's streaming numbers went down by 6%.
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Artists vs. the White House
thinking about this in a larger sense, Jay, what questions is all this bringing up for you?
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Well, we're going to find out with paper magazine writer and co-host of the podcast Eating for Free, Joan Summers, and New York Times magazine writer, Jay Wortham. Joan, Jay, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Hi. Hello. Who would you want to do your Kennedy Center tribute?
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
To that point, we are in a moment where we're seeing our government take aggressive executive action towards the vision of culture and American identity that they want to see, from anti-DEI orders to anti-trans orders. executive orders.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
And this is also happening as more and more of our major cultural institutions, whether it's the Grammys or Saturday Night Live, and even major artists that themselves have become institutions like Beyonce, thinking about her halftime performance on Christmas Day, or Kendrick Lamar, thinking about his halftime performance at the Super Bowl this year.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
They're being met with mixed reactions, all of these institutions and major artists. They're when they try to comment on the moment. I mean, I wonder, in times like these, what is the role of the artist? And what do people, whether they want to admit it or not, want from artists in these moments?
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Artists vs. the White House
Jay, Joan, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Well, as a thank you to the both of you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a game with you all. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer? Love a game.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Yay. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, What Did You Know? Stick around.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
All right, all right. We're going to play a little game I like to call, but did you know... Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story. And as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it. But don't worry, it's all multiple choice. And the first one to blurt out the right answer gets a point. Person with most points wins. And their prize is bragging rights.
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Are y'all ready? Yeah, please. Yes. All right. To start, this week marks 57 years since the first broadcast of the beloved children's show, Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. But the show, as we know it today, was not the first iteration of the puppet palooza. In what country did an early version called Mr. Rogers air? A, the United Kingdom. B, France. C,
It's Been a Minute
Artists vs. the White House
Feels like something they would do. Well, unfortunately for you both, the answer is Canada. Dang it. Whoa. Mr. Rogers aired on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, the CBC, for about four years, where several set pieces that would help define the American version, such as the trolley or the castle, were created. So there you go. All right, next question.
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Artists vs. the White House
Every single one. I know. So to recap the score, Joan, you are at zero points, and Jay, you are at zero points. Without further ado, the final tie-breaking question. Question number three. Daniel Tiger. Daniel Tiger. Jay says Daniel Tiger. What say you, Joan?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
That was NPR's Gene Demby and The Ringer's Joel Anderson. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a minute and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Potok.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
are not really a sports fan, I'd argue that we still need to pay attention to this box newsification of sports media, meaning it's personality driven, it's bombastic, it thrives off of conflict, and it's increasingly concerned with politics. For instance, ESPN used to be a place to watch the highlights, and now it's where you go to watch endless debates and hot takes.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
And then there's ESPN's own Stephen A. Smith. He is known for his loud and brash style on his daily debate show, First Take.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
He's also one of the most powerful television sports personalities and just signed a massive $100 million contract with ESPN. And one clause in that contract caught my attention. It's a clause that gives him more freedom to talk about politics. And he's taking full advantage of this, as seen in his recent interview with ABC News.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
So yeah, we live in a timeline where a man paid to sling hot takes about LeBron James is claiming that many people want him to become the next president of the United States.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we're connecting the dots between LeBron James, Bristol, Connecticut, and the 2028 election. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
I've had folks— So what does that say about our current cultural and political environment? Why have sports commentators become so omnipresent in media outside their lane? And what can history tell us about the connection between sports and politics? But first, for listeners like myself, who may not be super up on sports, who is Stephen A. Smith and what is he about? What is this whole situation?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Okay, so I can see how, based on what you said, he would want to run for office or at least say that that's something that he's going to do. Because you can get some juice off of just saying that that's something that you want to do.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
But I wonder though, like what does Stephen A. Smith believe? Like what are his politics?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Pat McAfee is another sportscaster who's been criticized for wading into politics. He was called out for platforming quarterback Aaron Rodgers' conspiracy theories during COVID. And, you know, McAfee came to ESPN from Barstool Sports, which is a media company with... a real bro-y feel that really seems to resonate with a younger conservative audience.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
And it's even at times been, I suppose, like credited for shaping some of the discourse within, you know, conservative American politics.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Hmm. Especially in the world of sports. That totally makes sense. Absolutely. But, okay. I'm remembering back to 2017 when former ESPN personality Jamel Hill tweeted, Donald Trump, who was then, you know, at the beginning of his first term, Donald Trump is a white supremacist who has largely surrounded himself with other white supremacists.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Well, we are going to find out with co-host of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Gene Demby, and former senior writer at ESPN and current senior staff writer at The Ringer, Joel Anderson. Gene, Joel, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Welcome back to It's Been a Minute. You both have been here before.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
And there was a huge backlash.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
That is why it is so wild.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
So I wonder, like, what's changed since then? I mean, why does it seem like sportscasters have so much more latitude to be able to talk about politics now, a time that I argue is just as much, if not more highly charged politically than 2017?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
It's like its own taxonomy, basically.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
It's good to have you. Okay, quick question. Who do y'all have winning the NBA finals? I don't know the answer to this question because I don't even know who's in the NBA semifinals, quarterfinals. I don't know who plays. I don't know who's in there.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Well, oh my gosh, Joel, Gene, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. I appreciate you always, Brenda. Our pleasure. Have us back. Yeah, of course. But before you go, as a thank you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a game with the two of you. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
All right. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, But Did You Know? Stick around.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
All right, all right. We are going to play a little game. I like to call, but did you know? Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week. And as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it. But don't worry. It's all multiple choice. The right answer is in there somewhere.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
First person to blurt out the right answer gets a point. Person with the most points wins. And their prize is bragging rights.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Don't worry, the news story this week is something that even a so-called wash dad would know about, okay? Question number one. Earlier this week, Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin completed a highly publicized mission to space featuring a star-studded crew that included Katy Perry, Gayle King, and Bezos' very own fiancee, Lauren Sanchez. How long did this flight last? Was it...
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
A, 11 minutes, B, 18 minutes, or C, 26 minutes?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
I'm going to go on the opposite end.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Oh, Joel, you have so much more faith in that. You have so much more faith. I appreciate it, but the answer is A, 11 minutes.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Well, the flight took the women 62 miles above Earth, crossing the recognized boundary of space. So basically, they just crossed into space.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
And then they turned right back around. They basically were in space long enough to have a few moments of weightlessness, which I have to ask y'all now, would you ever get on a rocket ship?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Me either. I just don't. I just feel like. Did anybody else read the story of Icarus? Yeah. Why would I fly that close to the sun? We are all in accordance. No ongoing space for 11 minutes. All right. Question number two. Gayle King, she looked a little shook after exiting the capsule, but apparently Katy Perry wasn't.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
What song did Gayle say Katy Perry was singing while staring back at Earth from space? Was it A, Fly Me to the Moon, B, Rocket Man, or C, What a Wonderful World?
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Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
It would be appropriate, but unfortunately, the answer is C, What a Wonderful World.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
So you got a competitive edge.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Without further ado, the final question. And I'm just going to do a little something that I love to do in these situations when the score is a little stacked. Yeah. Question number three is going to be winner takes all. Okay. Winner take all.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Well, these are the kinds of conversations that you'd expect to hear in your typical sports talk television show. However, there has been an interesting shift in the sports media world. The sports bros are getting political. And hear me out. If you, like me...
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
We just want to keep things interesting. Okay. We got to keep it interesting. All right. Question number three. Space tourism doesn't appear like it's going to be available to the average person anytime soon. And while full ticket prices haven't been set for future Blue Origin space flights, what is the deposit required to reserve a seat? Is it... A, $150,000. B, $250,000. Or C, $350,000.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
I feel like I would be inclined to say it wasn't the hiring, just because.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Ja Rule. Yeah, right, Ja Rule, yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
So what did each of you say? Oh, man.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
I'm like, who knows? Maybe down the line, I'll break off some retirement change and skedaddle on up. And by then, it could be even cheaper. So who knows? Who knows? Who knows?
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
No, I'm not going to go up there. Like I said, they don't have like, I can't go to Cheesecake Factory in space. I can't hang out with my friends. I can't text.
It's Been a Minute
Are men in your life getting more political? This guy may be why.
Well, listen, until there's a Cheesecake Factory in space, they can keep it on the playground. That is it for But Did You Know for this week. Congratulations to Gene on your win. And again, Gene, Joel, thank you both so much for joining me today. It's so great.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
The social media landscape in the U.S. is changing fast. While TikTok is potentially on its way out, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced his platforms, aka Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, and so forth, We'll be taking a step back from fact-checking.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
We love you, L.A. Love, all of us. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Barton Girdwood. Corey Antonio Rose. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
I want to draw attention to the word censorship. It's the word some Republican lawmakers have used to describe efforts to combat misinformation online. In the same announcement, Zuckerberg said, Now, all this signals a vast shift in the social media landscape. One major social media platform could go dark in the United States.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
While the CEO of several of the biggest platforms we have left is doubling down on culture war politics. And people are wondering, where do we go from here? Naomi, when it comes to the relationship between disinformation and social media, how would you characterize the moment we're in right now?
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Gosh, so it sounds like we are moving toward a place where people will be gathering and fewer and fewer sort of like big town square kind of... locations online the way that Twitter used to be or that TikTok kind of is, or I suppose maybe in the future was for a lot of people. People will kind of be in their own silos and also looking at in some cases, maybe their own versions of what facts are.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, here we go. This week, we're connecting the dots between alleged bullying, fact-checking, and Russian election interference. I know, I know. How are all these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Is that kind of what you're saying?
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
This Zuckerberg announcement that these metaprograms are going to be rolled back is coming after his claims of bullying from the Biden administration. And there are some people, some critics saying that Zuckerberg is pandering to the new Trump administration. Jingnan, can you give us a breakdown of Meta's history with the White House and how this moment might be different?
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
We do turn now to a story breaking overnight. Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg claims he was pressured by the White House to censor content related to COVID-19 during the pandemic.
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Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
I mean, you know, like Zuckerberg made some accusations saying that the Biden administration would call his employees and yell at them until they took their content off their platforms. I mean, it sounds like this could be perhaps, you know, old business dressed up in new clothes for a new president.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Right. And in an interview with Fox & Friends, Meta Chief Global Affairs Officer Joel Kaplan further clarified this reasoning.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Well, we're going to find out with NPR's Huo Jingnan and The Washington Post tech reporter Naomi Nix. Jingnan, Naomi, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Hello. Hi. What is your favorite dearly departed app? I got to say for me, My top two, probably Vine and the Kim Kardashian Hollywood game.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Like you said, that's the call that Meta would make. not the actual fact checkers. That's interesting. Well, I want to talk about another change that we are seeing at Meta. Meta has also revised its hate speech policy. The latest guidelines now allow allegations that LGBTQ plus people are mentally ill because they are gay or transgender.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Coming up, what Meta's new guidelines might mean for the safety of LGBTQ people online.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
I want to talk about another change that we are seeing at Meta. Meta has also revised its hate speech policy. The latest guidelines now allow allegations that LGBTQ plus people are mentally ill because they are gay or transgendered. Here's what the guidelines say now.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Quote, I do want to note here the use of transgenderism and homosexuality, which are words primarily used by people who want to denounce queer people. On top of that, Facebook will also move its trust safety and content moderation team from California to Texas in a move that Zuckerberg said was intended to quell concerns of political bias.
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Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
And both Meta and Amazon are scaling back their DEI initiatives. So that's a lot. That's a lot happening at one time. I wonder what do these changes mean for marginalized communities in online spaces?
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Is it worth it? Yeah, it's a very good, it seems like it's a question that's going to be coming up a lot in the future in regard to some of these platforms. But Naomi, I'd love to hear from you.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Yeah, it still exists, but it's not anywhere near as engaging as it used to be. I think I miss the time when I don't have to look at apps anymore. Here's the thing. We do not know the fate of one of this country's most used apps, TikTok. Will Trump be able to save the app or will it shut down because of a law passed last year? Time will tell. But here's something we do know.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
They, in a big way, are moving the goalposts on what constitutes acceptable. civil engagement.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
Bespoke realities. That's a really that's that's a very helpful and sobering clarification. I really appreciate that. Jingnan, Naomi, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Thank you. Thanks for having us. That was NPR reporter Guo Jingnan and Washington Post tech reporter Naomi Nix. I want us all to pause for a moment and show some love to the city of Los Angeles.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
For the past week, wildfires have ripped across the L.A. area. I have been heartbroken seeing images of the wreckage, and I know many of you have been too. We know these places and we know people who've had to evacuate. L.A. is an iconic city. It lives in our collective imaginations, but it's also a very real place that millions of people call home.
It's Been a Minute
Is fact-checking "censorship?" Why Meta's changes are a win for conservatives.
So I reached out to the NPR staff and the public to share what makes Los Angeles so special to them. Here is our love letter to L.A.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Wow. You both have given me so much to think about with this conversation. And like I said, regardless of what happens in the courtroom, regardless what the outcome of this trial is or what the jury decides, they always coincide with big swells in conversation about very difficult topics. And so I really appreciate you both bringing so much to this conversation.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
I think it's what a lot of people need to hear. So thank you both so much. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. That was author Beverly Gooden and Loyola University law professor Lori Levinson. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Pathak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Diddy, is a music mogul and business executive known for his Bad Boy Entertainment music label and his associations with various celebrities in Hollywood. And now he's facing federal charges of sex trafficking and racketeering. One of Diddy's primary accusers is the R&B singer Cassie Ventura, with whom he had an on and off relationship for over a decade.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
And she claims that she went through years of abuse during their relationship, which ended in 2018. Diddy pleaded not guilty to all charges. Federal prosecutors have alluded to a trove of evidence against him, including video documentation, surveillance footage, witness testimony, firearms, drugs, and more, suggesting that he wasn't following the law.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
So it caught my attention when I read a Washington Post article quoting defense attorney Mark Agnifilo, saying there was hitting on both sides and we're going to take the position that there was mutual violence in the relationship. This concept, often referred to as, quote, mutual violence or mutual abuse, suggests that both parties engaged in abusive behavior.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
And it might sound familiar to anyone who has followed celebrity abuse trials in the past. So I wanted to talk to Bev and Lori to understand what is mutual abuse in a legal context? Where have we seen this tactic used before? And could this strategy really help Diddy avoid a potential life sentence in federal prison?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
But it wasn't mutual abuse. Yeah, this idea of mutual abuse is something that I've seen floated by Diddy's legal team as a potential strategy. It was a part of their opening statement. Bev, could you define what mutual abuse could mean to Diddy's team?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, all right. This week, we are connecting the dots between R&B, racketeering, and Amber Heard. I know. I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
As our legal expert, Lori, is mutual abuse a viable defense strategy?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Okay. Okay. So Lori, you're saying that mutual abuse is not really a legal defense strategy. And Bev, you described mutual abuse as not even like a true concept in terms of how patterns of abuse work. So I wonder, Bev, why is it so easy for many people to believe that mutual abuse is a thing?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
You know, I find it interesting that Diddy's defense team is citing mutual abuse as part of their defense strategy because in doing so, they have to concede that he took part in abusive behavior on some level. So, Lori, why might the defense see this as a beneficial strategy?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Coming up, why it can be so hard for us to recognize abusive behavior in the people we look up to.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Well, we're going to find out with author Beverly Gooden and Loyola University law professor Lori Levinson. Bev, Lori, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
You know, I remember seeing the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial unfold on television, across social media, newspapers and magazines, and seeing a similar kind of reframe in mutual abuse come up a lot. One of Diddy's primary accusers is the R&B singer Cassie Ventura, with whom he had an on-and-off relationship for over a decade.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
And she claims that she went through years of abuse during their relationship, which ended in 2018. Critics of Cassie and other women who have alleged similar abuse in their relationships, they often ask, why would this person stay in the relationship so long? Bev, could you help us understand why domestic violence situations can be so difficult to escape from?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
So first off, what is your favorite courtroom drama? My Cousin Vinny. Oh, that's a good one. Mine is not a drama. Technically, it's not a drama. But there was drama going on in the courtroom, and that's Legally Blonde.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Mm-hmm. I'm thinking about how all of this reverberates outside of the courtroom, regardless of what the outcome of this case is, regardless of what the jury finds.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
As we've seen happen many times before, whether it was the OJ Simpson case or the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, or even in situations where things didn't necessarily escalate to a trial, like in the case of Chris Brown and Rihanna back in the 2000s. These...
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
very public allegations of domestic violence or abusive situations that we as the public become aware of later, they generate so much conversation on social media, in barbershops, beauty salons, group chats, all the time. I find that the way that these cases are framed or covered really affects the way that everyday people understand abuse and talk about it with each other.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
I'd love to hear from both of you on this. How do you see the possible reverberations of this mutual abuse strategy rippling outward into how everyday people think about abuse? Lori, I'd love to hear from you first on this.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
No way! Oh, my goodness. Lori, that's so major. Oh, my goodness. A celebrity. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Well, I'll tell you what. Right now, out in the world, we have a courtroom drama that I wish I could say was fiction with a criminal case against Sean Combs beginning this week. Sean Combs, a.k.a.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Well, Chenjerai, Rick, thank you both so much. I've learned so much here.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
That was historian Rick Perlstein, an NYU journalism professor and host of Empire City, Chenjerai Kumunika. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Patuk. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Well, President Trump said Khalil's arrest is the first of many to come as part of a policy to punish protesters who his administration claims are terrorist sympathizers or supporters of Hamas. This is something that President Trump himself campaigned on during the 2024 election.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
To be clear, Khalil has no known ties to Hamas or any terrorist organization. And of course, protesting is a right protected by our First Amendment. As soon as this story went public, people, and I mean everyone from political pundits to regular everyday folks were like, how is this possible? Isn't this a violation of the First Amendment?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
You know, one of the things that we're taught makes America America. You know, what makes Americans American is that we all have the right to free speech and the right to peaceably assemble. So in what ways is this one protester's arrest a rewriting of what it means to be an American? So, Rick, Chenjerai, the question on everyone's mind.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Is Mahmoud Khalil's arrest the beginning of the end of the right to protest?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Hmm. Hmm. Chandra, what do you think? Is the First Amendment essentially kaput?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, everybody. This week, we are connecting the dots between Columbia University, Cool Hand Luke, and William F. Buckley. I already know you are asking, how are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Okay, I want to get deeper into this fighting for the right to protest because of two reasons. One is that we have seen both Republican legislatures and Democratic cities attempt to curb in the last couple of years the right to assemble. All of this was happening after the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
But at the same time, both Democrats and Republicans are vocal about wanting to protect the right to free speech. I mean... Even conservative pundit, Ms. Ann Coulter, Ann Coulter, was pushing back against the Trump administration's arrest of Khalil.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Ann Coulter posted on X this week, there's almost no one I don't want to deport, but unless they've committed a crime, isn't this a violation of the First Amendment? So all that said, why is protest historically so important in the U.S. ?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Yeah. And when you say put protests down, talk to me about what that can look like in terms of how protesters who are speaking out against those in power are regarded or treated.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
OK, yeah. Give me an example of that long history that Trump is tapping into.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
And that makes me wonder why, of all the campus protesters, Mahmoud Khalil was targeted. Like, what message is the Trump administration trying to send? And how does the university play into all of this? Help me wrap my brain around this.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Right, right, right, right. And in fact, Reagan's education advisor famously said to be selective about who is allowed to go to college. Otherwise, his words, we are in danger of producing an educated proletariat.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Well, today we are going to find out with NYU journalism professor Chenjerai Kumunika and author Rick Perlstein. His books like Nixonland and Reaganland trace the rise of conservatism in America. Chenjerai, Rick, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
You know, to your point, just this week, President Trump called Tesla protesters, to quote him, domestic terrorists.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Yeah, it kind of looks like the administration is creating this scaffolding to restrict this kind of protest.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Coming up, Mahmoud Khalil's arrest also raises some other really big cultural questions, like what does it mean that a green card holder can be deported? And why many Americans and Jewish people are skeptical this arrest has anything to do with curbing anti-Semitism?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Going back to Mahmoud Khalil, Khalil's wife, who has not been named publicly and also is eight months pregnant, she was also threatened with arrest by ICE. She is an American citizen. And it's notable to me that she was told that Khalil would be detained somewhere close to their home in Manhattan, but he wound up being transferred about a thousand miles south to Louisiana. Wow.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Happy to have you both. All right, so let's set the stage for this conversation. Last weekend, Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil was arrested by federal immigration authorities. Khalil was one of the student leaders in Columbia University's campus protests against the war in Gaza. He's now a graduate of the university.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
What's the purpose of these tactics and what effect are they meant to have on green card or visa holders?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
You know... The administration, the Trump administration, has tried to frame its thwarting of protest as a way to combat anti-Semitism. Oh, my. And that's a claim that some Americans... You're my wheelhouse, Brittany. That is a claim that some Americans have been quite skeptical of. I have seen plenty of Jewish Americans be quite skeptical of that claim.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
I want to point out, though, that Donald Trump has been closely connected in the past with anti-Semitic figures like Kanye West and Nick Fuentes.
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
Yeah. And so I wonder, why do you think anti-Semitism is often ignored on the American right?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
I have one last question. You know, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble. These are all foundational parts of the American cultural identity. So if those freedoms become conditional, if those freedoms are in jeopardy, how does that change what it means to be an American?
It's Been a Minute
What's more "American" than the right to protest?
What's important to note about his arrest is that Khalil is in fact a green card holder, meaning he is a lawful permanent resident of the United States. So why are federal immigration authorities going out of their way to detain a legal resident of the United States who hasn't committed any crimes yet?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
That's it for But Did You Know? For this week, congratulations to Marion on your very tidy win. And Marion, Will, thank you both so much for joining me today.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
It was. That was NPR's Will Stone and public health nutritionist Marion Nessel. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Lewis. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
has contracted bird flu from eating eggs or from drinking raw milk. But over 20 million egg-laying chickens have gone up to that golden coop in the sky in the last five months alone. And scientists are concerned about the virus's ability to mutate and the risks it poses to human health. The thing that gets me about all this, this outbreak has been going on for years.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
It has killed over 100 million animals since 2022. So why is it that now the public is finally taking notice?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we're connecting the dots between eggs, the jungle, and the pandemic. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Marian, what about you? What do you think makes this moment unique with bird flu?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Yeah, yeah. I echo that concern. And also, I mean, even just thinking about like kind of this moment that we're in right now, thinking about not just bird flu and how it's affected our egg supply, but just thinking about other kinds of, you know, food related recalls that have been happening over the past like four to six months.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
I mean, just this week, there's a recall of some canned tunas, some canned tuna brands over concerns about botulism risk. Marion, is there a time when the American people were deeply roused to care about our food system and how their food is being prepared and grown?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Well, we're going to find out with NPR health reporter, Will Stone, and public health nutritionist, Marion Nestle. Will, Marion, welcome to It's Been a Minute. Hey there. Glad to be here. It's good to have you both. I'm curious, what is the highest price you'll pay for a dozen regular eggs?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
1906, that is a long time ago. Marion, why do you think more people aren't having that level of outrage about the safety risks within our food safety system today?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
I also imagine that some companies may not want to welcome intense scrutiny from consumers or the government about where their food comes from and how it's made.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
I see. I see. But also sometimes when you think about like the ethical or even the safety concerns that come up in really understanding how our food is grown and raised and where it comes from, I think a lot of consumers might not want to be thinking about that either.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
That's a very, very, very good point. Something that you've said, Will, that makes bird flu so difficult or complex to address is that there is an animal response. Like, there's a response to... Herds of animals that are being affected, but also there needs to be a response to human infection. How are we seeing our government respond or not respond to the crisis at hand, Will?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
You know, all this is happening as Trump's Secretary of Health and Human Services pick, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., was confirmed by the Senate this week. So now the person tasked with preparing for and responding to national public health threats like, say, bird flu, is someone who has shown deep skepticism for vaccines in humans, let alone animals.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Will, how does RFK and the cabinet have the potential to shape the future of food safety?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
You know, a lot of people have been worried about how to shop in the face of all these headlines and all these discussions about avian flu. And no one that we know of in the U.S. has contracted bird flu from eating eggs or drinking pasteurized or even raw milk at this moment.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
But aside from buying or not buying something, what are other ways consumers can take action if they're feeling concerned about how bird flu is affecting our food supply? Cook your food. Cook your food? Say more. That's one I haven't heard before, Marianne.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
I wonder, you know, you talked about these individual solutions, very helpful, might I add, keeping the hot foods hot. I'm not going to say too much. Sometimes people don't want to hear that one. But I also wonder about like thinking beyond the individual. If someone is concerned about these things, what are some things that they could do to maybe try to affect change in a larger sense?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Well, given the headlines, I think you might want to reconsider those numbers. Let's get into it. Across the country, egg prices are continuing to rise. If you were to walk into a grocery store today, you can expect to see prices for a dozen eggs as high as $10. That is $1 more than Will's tap-out price and almost double the cost from this time last year. Why?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
You know, Marion, I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you on that. Well, I am just going to add bird flu to the long list of concerns I have for my elected officials. Well, Marion, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Thanks. My pleasure. And as a thank you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a very quick little game with you all.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Another game? Yes! This is the game, Marion. It's the game. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, But Did You Know... Stick around. All right, all right. You are listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce here with NPR health reporter Will Stone and public health nutritionist Marion Nestle. And we're going to play a little game I like to call, but did you know?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week. And as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it. But don't worry. It's all multiple choice. And the first one to blurt out the right answer gets a point. Person with the most points wins. And their prize is bragging rights and a carton of eggs. I'm just kidding.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
We're not going to give you all a carton of eggs. Are you ready?
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
All right, to start this weekend is Valentine's Day weekend. The candy-hearted holiday is named after St. Valentine, a Roman clergyman in the third century. But of course, to join that sacred sorority of sainthood, one must perform a miracle during their time on earth. What miracle was St. Valentine said to have performed during his lifetime? A, giving sight to a blind girl.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
B, calming a raging storm. Or C, curing 14 men of leprosy.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
I'll say the storm. Well, unfortunately, you were both wrong. The answer is giving sight to a blind girl. Valentine was said to have healed a blind girl named Julia, the daughter of his jailer, before he was executed around 270 AD. That wasn't very nice of his jailer. I know, right? I'm kind of like, wow, that was a little... He did one nice thing for you and boom.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Well, it gives a new meaning for love at first sight. All right. Question number two. Valentine's Day is a huge milestone for many couples out there, and there are quite a few who celebrate anniversaries on the holiday, including my aunt and uncle, Cassandra and Gary. Happy anniversary. There are also two states in this country that achieved statehood on Valentine's Day.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Which state does not celebrate the anniversary of its statehood on February 14th? A, Oregon. B, Arizona. Or C, Montana.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
Montana. Well, you know what, Marion? I'll tell you what. You were absolutely right. The answer is C, Montana.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
You sensed it. You sensed it. While Oregon achieved statehood on V-Day 1859 and Arizona achieved it on the same day in 1912, Montana achieved statehood November 1889. To recap the score, Will, you are at zero points. Marion, you are in the lead with one point. Without further ado, the final question for the win. This is winner takes all.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
When it comes to Valentine's Day, the flowers, chocolate and jewelry can really add up. According to the National Retail Federation, how much money are Americans expected to spend this year on Valentine's Day? A, $15.8 billion. B, $27.5 billion. Or C, $32.1 billion. I'll pick the middle one. $32 billion. Well, Marianne, you got the magic touch. The answer is $27.5 billion.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
That figure is actually up from last year's $25.8 billion. So maybe it's a sign that those relationships are still going strong. I don't know. I don't know. We eat a lot of candy in America. We do eat a lot of candy in America. Although I have to say, I am not really a big candy on the day. I'm a big candy on the 15th when it's half off kind of person. That's just me. All right.
It's Been a Minute
Eggs are expensive, but are they safe?
The avian flu, also known as bird flu, is causing outbreaks in poultry. But it's not just in birds. It's been found in U.S. dairy cows, and there have been several recent human cases found in workers at dairy and poultry facilities. Don't panic just yet. Right now, the risk of mass human infection is low. And there's no evidence that anyone in the U.S.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
What about you, Waylon? What is your favorite unscientific recession indicator?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
The answer is correct. C. C. It turns out we are also incredibly busy with life activities that we don't feel like we have enough time to read, which honestly, I mean, that's relatable. I'll also add that this is the number one reason by a huge margin.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
43% of Americans say this is the reason compared to the second most popular answer at 32, which is a preference for other mediums of entertainment, aka TV. And I have to say, I don't want to say people are lying. But the 32% of you that said that TV is the reason you're not reading, I just want to commend your honesty right there. I'm not even going to front. I'm having too much fun watching TV.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
All right. To recap the score. Oh, I love it when it gets to this point. We got a tie. Jeff, you're at one point. Whelan, you're at one point. Oh my goodness. Okay. Without further ado.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Tiebreaker. That's tiebreaking. Final question. We've talked a lot about the people who don't read, but I see you readers out there and it turns out for those of you that do read- What is by far the most popular genre according to the NPR poll? Is it A, fantasy, B, thrillers, crime or mystery all lumped in together, or C, romance?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
That's too bad. The answer is B, thrillers. Really?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Listen, I love a thriller. I love to be shocked and surprised. And also, I love mystery. But at the end of the day, I feel like people love crime. I hate to say it. I hate that that's a true thing.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Well, 37 percent of respondents to the survey said that thrillers were their favorite genre. That's relatable. But now I'm like, maybe we should just like maybe we should blow this popsicle stand and start a true crime podcast. OK, get this money.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
All right. That's it for But Did You Know? for this week. Congratulations to neither of you.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
But you know what that means? That means you've got to come back and have a rematch. Yes. There we go. There we go. Oh, my gosh. This was so much fun.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
That was co-host of NPR's Indicator podcast, Waylon Wong, and co-host of NPR's Planet Money podcast, Jeff Guo. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Patuk. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Listen, listen, it's getting to be that time for a lot of us. And also, I mean, it's not just us. Everyone from hedge fund managers to online content creators are thinking a lot about the state of the economy right now and for good reason. Threats of new tariffs shook global markets all week and are prompting companies to adjust to the uncertainty.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Nintendo's brand new Switch 2 console was set to open pre-orders in the US this very week, but that has been delayed because of newly imposed tariffs. But it's not just about luxury game consoles. People's retirement savings are disappearing, and this current moment doesn't feel like...
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
the vibes session of a few years ago when people felt bad about the economy, but the numbers still looked good, right? If we're being honest, it sort of feels similar, and I was around for this too, to the 2008 moment I'm sure a lot of us remember quite vividly, myself included. So this had me wondering, are we actually barreling headfirst into a recession?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
How do we prepare culturally for this potential economic hit? So Jeff and Waylon, lots of big weighty questions, but I just want to start with how do we define a recession and how do we know when we're in a recession?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Yeah, that, you know, I'll say, I mean... You're blowing my mind a little bit right now, y'all. I mean, oftentimes regular folks will feel like they're already in a recession personally before financial institutions officially declare one. Mm-hmm.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, all right. This week, we are connecting the dots between chaperone, skincare dupes, and the Nintendo Switch. I know, I know. How are all these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
So should we be preparing for a recession right now? Like, what should we be doing?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
So speaking of shopping, like what are people buying more of right now?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Interesting, interesting. I wonder about dupes, you know, dupes for the uninitiated are, I mean, they could be anything from a product that works really pretty close to the way that like a big brand name, kind of fancier product does to just something that seems like it's kind of similar, but really doesn't work as well.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
But the big thing is that a dupe is always going to be less expensive than the original.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
There have been all these studies on the millennials who graduated into the 2008 recession. Myself included, and I still remember it. You're like, I'm still processing. I'm still processing it now. And the long lasting effects that that economic moment had on the rest of their lives. Is there anything that Gen Z can learn from what millennials experienced in 2008?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Well, we are going to find out with co-host of NPR's Indicator podcast, Waylon Wong, and co-host of NPR's Planet Money podcast, Jeff Guo. Waylon, Jeff, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Ah, my gosh. Yeah, I mean, you both bring up such good points. So I think back to that whole period. It was a hard time. I was at least fortunate enough to be able to go back and live with my parents.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
I had one friend who had his own apartment at that time.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Only one and everybody else, everybody else I know is living with their parents. But, you know, between this recession or looming recession or real vibe session, we're experiencing and these tariffs, especially the tariffs that are being placed on Chinese goods, aka where tons of the little treats that people buy themselves online every day are coming from.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
It'll be interesting to see how, you know, younger consumers will respond to both their budgets changing and also the prices changing on, you know, some of these formerly super cheap goods.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Hi. All right. So I have a question. What is your favorite unscientific recession indicator? Lipstick. Lipstick.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
That's a really good point. Oh my gosh. Well, talk about all this. I mean, it just reminds me that America is a consumer economy. Americans love cheap goods from China. I wonder, like, how would these increased tariffs fundamentally change how we live in America? How would that affect how we see ourselves as Americans?
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Yeah, I also wonder if there's an opportunity there too for Americans to consider why these goods may be so cheap in the first place and how fair some of the business practices are that allow for Americans to pay so little for goods that are still being made by human beings in other countries.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
You raise a really good point, Jeff. There's an opportunity for people to rethink their attitudes toward how we participate in a global economy and perhaps understanding that we are much more interdependent on other countries than maybe people previously assumed. For sure. But Waylon, Jeff, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Thanks. This is great.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
You made me think about so many things. I loved it.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Both so much fun. And as a thank you to you for teaching me something. I'd like to teach y'all something by playing a game with you all. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer? Yes.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
All right. Jeff, you seem a little trepidatious.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
It's okay. It's okay. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, What Did You Know? Stick around. All right. All right. We are going to play a little game I like to call, What Did You Know? Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week. And as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it, but don't worry.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
It's all multiple choice. The right answer is in there somewhere. And the first one to blurt out the right answer gets the point. The first one. Okay. I'm so worried. Person with the most points wins and their prize is bragging rights. Those good old NPR bragging rights, baby.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
No, you'll see. You'll see. It's going to be fun. So this week, we got an update on the ongoing war between books versus brain rot. According to a brand new NPR Ipsos poll looking at American reading habits, what percentage of Americans read a book, one book, in the month of February? Was it... A, 34%, B, 51%, or C, 68%? I'm going A. B. Well, Jeff, look at C. You were nervous and you got it right.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Waylon, I thought it was even less than 34%. You and I are on the same page.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
You know what? You're saying something right there. They could be lying, but you were right.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
Well, unfortunately for books, 80% of Americans say they watch TV during that time. I know I was. I was watching The Pit. To which I will now force both of you to pick a side. Whose side are you on, books or TV? You're going to make us pick? I know.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
I'm going books. Oh, my gosh. I love you all for choosing books. I think that is so virtuous. And I love books.
It's Been a Minute
This podcast is a recession indicator.
And see, and you know what? That's the kind of thinking that would get you rewarded in Hollywood, Jeff, okay? All right, all right. Question two. What is the number one reason Americans say they aren't reading more? Is it... TV. B, lack of interest in reading, or C, not enough time because of life activities? I'd say C. C. Waylon says C, and Jeff says C. Waylon, you were first.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Now, protein is an essential macronutrient. We all need it. But I've been noticing some confusion about whether we're eating enough protein or not. So I went out on the street to see what the people think about their protein intake. I'm saying bulk of what you're eating. It should be more protein focused. How much protein do you think you eat in a day?
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Okay, let's actually talk about how much protein we probably should be eating. How much protein do we really need?
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
So even as we're already kind of having more than enough, at least in the United States, there are lots of Americans that are like, God, I get my protein up. That's right.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
So people aren't having enough fiber.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Well, I, for one, am a huge fiber girly and I welcome any and all to the Fiber Club. Samantha, Kenny, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Thanks for having us. That was food writer Samantha Maxwell and Vox senior reporter Kenny Torella. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Jasmine Romero. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
It's honestly so confusing. And the obsession is so deep, it's even changed the way food producers market their products.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
That was Vox senior reporter Kenny Torella. I sat down with him and food writer Samantha Maxwell to understand the cultural tides bringing protein to the front of our minds. Why it's increasingly tied to politics... and how much protein we actually need to eat. Samantha, Kenny, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Thanks for having us. So we are here to talk about protein. I've seen it in pancake mix, cookies. I'm getting served, you know, these recipe videos on Instagram where there's like 50 grams of protein in one serving of a dish. You know, maybe there are some people who need that, right? But it just sometimes seems like a lot. And so I wonder, where do y'all think this is coming from?
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Like, how did a big focus on protein become a new fad?
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Another thing that I think about, I recently saw this photo floating around that compared what Hugh Jackman looked like shirtless in the first X-Men movies versus how he looked in the most recent Deadpool movie, Deadpool and Wolverine or whatever. And he physically looks very different.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Like even 20 years ago, I think even for men who were in like action films, let's say, who were meant to look very muscular and muscular. have an appearance that some people might call quite jacked, they still had a physique that wouldn't be out of place at a local gym.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
But Marvel movies, they consistently feature physiques that required constant exercise, super restrictive diets, and at times even severe dehydration to make their on-screen male characters look way, way, way more jacked. I think that male body image has also probably been deeply affected by that.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
And according to Pew, 79% of New Year's resolutions are about one thing, health. But there are so many different aspects to our health, and it's hard to separate fact, fiction, and fad. We're kicking off 2025 with a little series called New Year, New Me. We're getting into some of the big questions and cultural confusion around our health and wellness.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
To your point, Kenny, I find that some people, especially men, might not want to call their protein obsession, protein consumption, dieting. But it seems like counting macros and being very attentive to how you train in the gym and counting calories, those things are very much in line with traditional notions of dieting.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
I mean, a lot of those things are coded as very feminine, which may be why some people might run from that name. But protein does have a more masculine bent to it. So I could see how it's easier for men and women to partake in like heightened protein consumption and perhaps not call it dieting or not call it restrictive eating, even when it could be.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Or not even cooking them like the liver king.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Thousands of dollars of steroids every month. Yes.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Ah, with factory farming.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Yeah, that seems like a lot to take on every day. But I think that where we are with like America's big protein kick right now, it seems to be reflecting something broader about shifts that are happening in our culture. In your eyes, what does the protein kick reflect about these broader changes we're seeing in our culture right now?
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
This week, we're diving deep into a diet obsession that's been making me scratch my head, protein. If your algorithm is anything like mine, you've probably seen recipe videos like this one.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Kenny, what kinds of connections do you see between conservative politics and emphasis on protein?
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Hmm. That iconography around meat or cattle or livestock is very baked into a lot of American iconography. It's very much there. Going back to what you said about like the Maha rhetoric, it feels like there's this widespread idea that's causing a lot of people a lot of anxiety that what we're eating or the way we're eating is not right. We see that in the
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
clean eating, some strains of veganism, people who eat raw, people who are keto. There's a lot of cultural noise about what eating right actually looks like that might be playing into all this.
It's Been a Minute
Bad news for protein bros: you might be getting scammed
Let me show you how to make a quick and easy lunch that has over 60, yes, 60 grams of protein.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Claire, Rachel, it has been such a joy to talk to you both. I've learned so much. Thank you.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
That was founder of the Up and Up newsletter, Rachel Janfaza, and New York Times reporter, Claire Kane Miller. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
I'm feeling very youthful right now. I feel as I sit here with my middle part that I've maintained for the past six or seven years because a Gen Z person got me together. Exactly.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
This episode was edited by Nina Pathak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Hello. A quick note before we start today's show. You may have heard that President Trump has issued an executive order seeking to block all federal funding to NPR.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
You know, I'm going to actually definitely second that one. That is something over the years I have learned a lot more about from Gen Z colleagues, I'll say. Well, if you haven't heard, there's another big difference in the headlines that's raising eyebrows. And that difference can be found... in their political views.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Recent polling and survey data suggests that young women ages 18 to 29 have become increasingly liberal in their politics. And this isn't just a case of youngest generation being more liberal than their older peers. the data actually shows that Gen Z women in particular identify as even more liberal than older generations did at the same age.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
For example, Gallup's polling data says that 28% of women aged 18 to 29 self-described as liberal between 2001 and 2007. If you look at that same age range from the years 2017 to 2024, the number of young women self-identifying as liberal shoots up to 40%. No other cohort polled saw a change this dramatic. So that has me wondering, what is behind Gen Z women's apparent shift to the left?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Why aren't other generations seeing a similar shift? And what should we make of the growing political gap between Gen Z men and Gen Z women? But first, just to like set a foundation for the conversation, why is it that younger generations tend to be more liberal in the first place? Claire, we'll hear from you first on this.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Interesting. Interesting. And what do you think, Rachel? Why do you think that younger generations tend to be more liberal in the first place?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Well, the latest Gallup poll about political leanings and gender uses data from the beginning of Trump's term into the beginning of his second term. Claire, do you think that Gen Z women becoming more liberal is a reaction to the rise of Donald Trump?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
This is the latest in a series of threats to media organizations across the country. Whatever changes this action brings, NPR's commitment to reporting the news without fear or favor will never change. Thank you. We are proud to do this work for you. and with you. This week, we're connecting the dots between Dobbs, the Manosphere, and Gallup. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Interesting. All of the political moments that you mentioned, I remember feeling extremely monumental. And there's Gallup data that looks at people between the ages of 18 and 29 from the years 2001 to 2007. And in that data, Gen Z men aren't significantly more or less liberal than when their millennial counterparts were the same age, right?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
So millennial men back in the 2000s and Gen Z men today are kind of hovering around the same kind of place as far as like who's liberal and who's not. But on the other hand, there's a surge in Gen Z women identifying as liberal. What effect do you think this trend could have on the broader culture? Rachel, I'd love to hear from you first on this.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
A gender war. My, my, my. Claire, I'd love to hear from you on this.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
And that feels new. I feel like it's typically been the other way around. Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Coming up, a theory on the political divide within Gen Z itself.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
What caused it and how it potentially impacted the 2024 election? After this quick break.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Rachel, you've done some interesting analysis on the political divide within Gen Z itself. I am so riveted by this. Your research suggests younger members of Gen Z are actually a little more conservative than their older counterparts within the same generation. What do you think is behind that?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
really, really interesting. We've discussed on this show plenty of times how outcomes educationally, professionally for young men have really changed in this past generation. But it makes me wonder, like, Rachel, what are young men saying in your listening sessions, like about how they feel in this particular moment, and how that informs their political leanings?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
I'm also thinking about some of the reporting that you've done, Claire, and also some of the research and conversations that you've had, Rachel, where young men that you've spoken to say that what made them want to vote for Trump, like the economy, even if the Trump campaign's economic propositions were a bit hollow or unclear.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
And so I'm wondering, like, why would Trump be so appealing to these young men? even if his platform didn't necessarily speak clearly to their concerns or their concerns might have been more addressed by a Democratic platform.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
Well, we are going to find out with founder of the Up and Up newsletter, Rachel Janfaza, and New York Times reporter, Claire Kane Miller. Rachel, Claire, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
This growing divide between Gen Z men and Gen Z women, do we see this trend continuing to grow, this gap between young men and young women continuing to grow politically?
It's Been a Minute
The political power of Gen Z women
It's great to be here. So you two, what do you think is the biggest difference between Gen Z women and millennial women?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
But there's a difference between this version and the way the song is traditionally sung. What time signature did music director Ricky Miner change the anthem to? A, 3-4. B, 4-4. Or C, 2-4. 4-4. 4-4.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Oh, my gosh. Wow. Jonathan, first of all, you gagged me with your Whitney knowledge. I know. Yes. Now, Whitney did sing live, but the lip sync is what viewers at home heard, which is most of us, honestly. You've given the listeners something to hold on to. I have to say, you're both correct. The answer is 4-4. Danielle, you did get it first. You did get it first. The point goes to you.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Congratulations. But on the decision to slow the anthem down, Minor, the musical director, said, you've got to leave some room for magic. And that is where Whitney came in and really just sang from her heart. And I am inclined to agree. All right. Well, that's it for But Did You Know for this week. Congratulations to Danielle on your win.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Is this the first time you've ever won or is this not the first time you've ever won?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
I have to say, Danielle, Jonathan, thank you both so much for joining me today. It was great to have you both.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Before you could understand what one executive order means and how it might impact you, bam, another three decisions have been made and you are stuck between Googling what tariffs are and making sure you can still access your health care. But what if I told you that this strategy had a name that's been circling since before Trump 2.0?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Back in 2019, former chief strategist for the first Trump administration, Steve Bannon, told Frontline PBS that Trump's real opposition wasn't the Democrats, it was the media.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
As in, hit the American people with such an overwhelming barrage of government action that we don't know where to look or what to address first. We got a taste of this strategy in the first Trump presidency, but this time it seems to be in overdrive. And let me just say, it's working on me. I am overwhelmed. But will this strategy work at getting the president's agenda accomplished?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
So first, I want to know, what's the immediate effect of flooding the zone? And why does it feel so different this time? Danielle, we'll start with you.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Jonathan, I'd love to hear from you on this. Why does it feel different this time in 2025?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we're connecting the dots between the stroke of a pen, handmade biscuits, and late-night truth social posts. I know, I know. How are all of these things connected?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
I wonder, why is this strategy so difficult to counter?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Hmm. What you witnessed on that call, that indivisible call, kind of, it seems like it matches with what some voters are experiencing on the other end of things, feeling like there's like a lack of Democratic action or lack of action from the Democrats. I wonder, does this strategy work from a policy perspective?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Like, I know some of Trump's executive orders, like the challenge to birthright citizenship, have already been stopped in the courts. So how effective is this at actually accomplishing his agenda?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
And then it moves you through time. Music is architecture in time. If you engage in the moment with what you're listening to, you do lose a sense of the time around you.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Well, we're going to find out with NPR's White House correspondent, Danielle Kurtzleben, and MSNBC Morning Joe co-host, Jonathan Lemire. Danielle, Jonathan, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Yeah, I mean, there's a little bit of theater in that. It reminds me, different, but it reminds me of this fast food chain in North Carolina called Biscuitville. There's like this plexiglass room or part of the kitchen where somebody is always making biscuits by hand, hand cutting these biscuits. I mean, they taste fine, but there's a little bit of theater added into the mix.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Like, it goes without saying that if you're a president, we expect that you're going to be sitting at your desk signing things. To put yourself in the middle of an arena doing it, that is a very, it's a very deliberate choice. It's definitely meant to communicate something very baldly to your constituents.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
You know, among those who oppose these policies, there seems to be two major camps of thought. Camp one seems to be, you know, this is all bluster and Trump has no plan. And camp two seems to be, there is a very organized plan. perhaps a la Project 2025, and this is the execution of it. How much would you say of one or the other are we experiencing right now?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Are we kind of in a planless moment with Trump? Or is all of this kind of going according to plan?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Always happy to be here. Would you rather be caught up in a tornado or a hurricane? Hurricane.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
So, you know, I think it's fair to say that the zone has been flooded. And so I wonder, what can we do to stay afloat in the flood? Like, what can we as everyday people, as news consumers, as constituents, as voters, do to kind of stay afloat in this overwhelm of information?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Interesting. I choose tornado. Maybe that's just because of where I'm from, you know, the Midwest. And I would just go down into the basement and stick there as long as I can. But I think we can all agree that the past few weeks have felt almost as overwhelming as natural disaster with the amount of news there has been to cover and follow. Sometimes it feels like I am drowning in information.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
I agree that this is not the time to disengage as far as letting the overwhelm take over. But yeah, it is a lot to keep up with. And we're only a few weeks in. Well, Danielle, Jonathan, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much. Yeah, of course.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
And as a thank you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a game with you all. Can you stick around?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
All righty. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, But Did You Know? Stick around. All right, all right. You're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce here with NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben and The Atlantic's Jonathan Lemire. And we're going to play a little game I like to call, But Did You Know? Here's how it works.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week. And as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it. But don't worry. It's all multiple choice. And the first one to blurt out the right answer gets a point. The person with the most points wins. And their prize is bragging rights. Are you ready? Yeah.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
All right. To start, Super Bowl 59 will be held on Sunday, February 9th at the Caesars Superdome in New Orleans, Louisiana. This game is a rare rematch between Super Bowl 57 competitors, the Philadelphia Eagles and the Kansas City Chiefs. That Super Bowl also featured an appearance from which original Broadway dream girl singing lift every voice and sing?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Was it A, Jennifer Holliday, B, Loretta Devine, or C, Cheryl Lee Ralph? The first one, Holiday. Danielle says Jennifer Holiday. Jonathan, what say you?
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
I'll go with B. Loretta Devine. Well, unfortunately, you're both wrong.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
The answer was C, Cheryl Lee Ralph, the original Dina in Dreamgirls. She delivered the Negro National Anthem 123 years to the date after its first public performance in 1900. How about that? Ooh.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
All right, question number two. One of the time-honored cultural traditions of the United States is the Super Bowl halftime show held between the second and third quarters. In 1996, the boss, not Bruce Springsteen, but Miss Diana Ross took over the 30th Super Bowl halftime show, finishing her routine with what stunt? A. Being lifted into the sky by a helicopter.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
B. Sinking into the ground in a sea of pyrotechnics. Or C. Being carried off the field by a group of Navy SEALs.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
And that feeling might be by design. Let's get into it. We are a little over two weeks into the new administration and President Trump has signed at least 45 executive orders with a stroke of his pen addressing all manner of American life and government from the military to K-12 education. And it's happening kind of rapid fire.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
Okay. Well, Danielle, you are absolutely right. No. Really? You did a good job with that one. Yeah, the answer. And when we were prepping this game, I did not think, I actually had the same answer as you, Jonathan. I was like, there's no way they had a helicopter that close to the ground. That seems dangerous. But the answer is A, being lifted up into the sky by helicopter.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
With hair blowing in the wind, Miss Ross was lifted up and out of the stadium while I Will Survive played below her. Talk about a visual.
It's Been a Minute
Why is Trump "Flooding the Zone?"
No kidding. Well, you know what they say. A true diva knows how to make a grand entrance and an even grander exit. All right. To recap the score, Danielle, you are at one point. Jonathan, you are at zero points. Without further ado, the final question. Winner takes all. The most revered version of the Star Spangled Banner is undoubtedly Whitney Houston's rendition for Super Bowl 35.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Oh my gosh, this is so beautiful. My parents named me Brittany. And that was only because they felt like Ashley wasn't quite right. Little do they know they are functionally in 2025, almost the exact same name for all intents and purposes. So I suppose if Brittany captures my essence, there's probably millions of other women my exact same age that have the same essence as well.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Okay, 21. Well, Naftali, you got the Midas touch today. The answer is B, 19. 19. Johannes von Baumbach is 19 years old and heir to the world's largest privately owned pharmaceutical company, to which I say, if I had that much money at 19 years old, Forever 21 never would have gone bankrupt. Let me tell you that. All righty. Well, that is it for But Did You Know?
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Congratulations to Naftali on your win.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Yes. I was like, where are you going to spend your bragging rights?
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
And to all the billionaires who are listening to this show right now, a reminder that you too can donate to NPR or to me personally whenever you like. And Netta Naftali, thank you both so much for joining me today.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
That was NPR's Netta Ulabi and Washington Post senior national political correspondent Naftali Ben-David. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. Barton Girdwood. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Well, whether you love your name or you hate it, one thing is true. Everyone's name is deeply personal. But what you might not have realized is that your name is deeply political, too. Let me lay this out. Netta and I were on a call last week and she blew my mind when she started talking about the reddest and bluest, you know, Republican and Democratic baby names.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
She found this survey that tracked the top 500 names in states that had gone red or blue in the 2020 presidential election. For Republican boy names, I would have guessed, I don't know, Mike or Peter or Ryan, you know, traditional white guy names. But no, one of the most popular boys names specific to red states was Cohen, a Jewish holy name for priests.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Now over in blue states, some of the most prevalent boy names were Moshe, Santino, and Muhammad. And 84% of baby names specific to blue states were primarily pulled from languages other than English. We will come back to this. The big point here is that names signify something. They, of course, signify us. We hear our parents, friends, and coworkers shouting our name from another room.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. All right, dear listeners, this week, you and I are connecting the dots between a mountain in Alaska, an oak tree in the Midwest, and President Trump's new favorite hobby. I know, I know. How could these things be connected?
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
The barista at the coffee shop either knows how to spell it or not. And it's the easiest way to identify someone. But our names are also cultural heritages. They come from our parents. And our parents are consciously or unconsciously pulling from the culture they were born into and an imagined culture they want each of us to be a part of.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
So what do these newly popular baby names say about the culture parents are trying to build today? And on top of that, since his first days in office, our newly elected president is deeply invested in renaming our cultural landmarks. So whether it's a baby's name or the Gulf of whatever we are calling it this week, how are names powerful political tools that shape our culture?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
One of the statistics in the survey that gets to a bigger picture here is that 84% of the top names specific to blue states, places with more diverse populations, were derived from non-English sources, while 90% of the reddest names come from English sources. They have English origins, these names, like Baylor or Stetson or Sutton or Tripp.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
That immediately made me think of how earlier last month, President Trump signed an executive order declaring English as this country's official language. Now, Tali, how does that line up with other ways that Trump and conservatives are actively renaming cultural landmarks in the United States? What story of America are they trying to tell?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Yeah, speaking of a different story of America, I am also thinking about how Mateo became a top 10 name, a name like Mateo that is derived from Spanish.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
And now I kind of got the sense that when President Trump moved to make English the official language of the United States, that Spanish, which is becoming more and more prevalent and more and more useful to speak in the United States, couldn't help but think that Spanish was one of the languages that perhaps the president was trying to avoid being spoken in the country.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Yes, I definitely think that question of identity, you know, like what traditions you want to link your children to, it comes up especially when you look at the new names popping up in red states. There's this theme that's emerging that connects with nature. We're seeing names like Renly or Sailor with a Y. Nada, what surprised you about some of the newly prevalent red state names?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
I don't know. When I hear these names, Oak Lee's, L-E-E, L-E-I-G-H, L-E-Y, the Wren Lee's. Oakland, even they feel very culturally white to me. It almost kind of invokes to a certain degree to like the kind of trad wife culture that has become so, so, so popular on social media and reality TV and beauty influencing.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Also, like they're kind of pointing towards a specific kind of whiteness that is perhaps becoming more prevalent in the United States and American culture more broadly.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
zooming out into the political. Naftali, you know, we've been talking a little bit about nature and President Donald Trump and his administration, they have chosen to put forth changes to some of America's big landmarks.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Well, we are going to find out with NPR culture correspondent, Neda Ulabi. Thanks, Brittany. And Naftali Ben-David, senior national political correspondent for The Washington Post. Thanks for having me. And, you know, you both have such beautiful names. I'm wondering, do you feel like your parents got it right? Do you feel like your names capture your essence?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
You know, as you mentioned, Trump announced that he wanted to change the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America or change a mountain in Alaska, currently named Mount Denali, which is the traditional native name of the mountain, back to Mount McKinley. And then there's the Anahuac, National Refuge in Texas, which is an indigenous name that Trump wants to rename after Jocelyn Nungere.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
I know that one of the most important examples of Trump's renaming obsession for you, Naftali, was his renaming of two military outposts to Fort Bragg and Fort Benning. Those had been changed following the post-George Floyd protests and moment of 2020 because they were named after Confederate generals. But Trump has changed them back.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
But also, I thought Congress had passed a law that people literally could not name things after Confederate figures. So how did Trump get here?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
What's the theory for why the Trump administration would want to go to such great lengths for this? Why is this renaming so important?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Well, Netta Naftali, thank you both so much. I've learned so much and you both have given me so much to think about. Thank you so much, Brittany. This was great.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
And as a thank you, I would like to teach you something about some of the richest people in the world. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer? You bet. Of course. All right. We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, but did you know, stick around.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
All right, all right. We are going to play a little game I like to call, But Did You Know? Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week and ask you trivia about it. But don't worry, it's all multiple choice. And the first one to blurt out the right answer gets a point. The person with the most points wins and their prize is bragging rights.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Are y'all ready? Ready. All right. That's what I like to hear. Okay. To start, Forbes just dropped its annual billionaire list. And for those who have been listening for a while... you might know that we played a game on this last year. So Naftali and Netta, I hope you were paying attention because in 2025, the billionaire list has a new record of total billionaires worldwide.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Hint, none of them are me. How many billionaires are there? A. 2,028 billionaires. B, 3,028 billionaires. Or C, 4,028 billionaires.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Oh, that's beautiful. What about you, Netta?
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Naftali says B. What say you, Netta?
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
All right. Well, I'll tell you what. Naftali, you were the early bird and you got the worm. The answer is B, 3,028 billionaires. Does that number surprise either of you?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
If I met one, I would definitely give them my bank account number.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
That's what I'm saying. You know, just from an ethical perspective, it's like, I don't know, like just spread it around, share the wealth, share with me. Personally, if I had that kind of money, I would fund public media for the next decade and buy myself an affordable home and a walkable neighborhood. But what would you do with it? Oh, I would fund public media for the next millennia.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
You're so much more generous than I am. What about you? What about you, Naftali?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
I love that. But no fun purchases? Like nobody wants to water ski? Like no fur coat?
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Oh, that's a good one. Okay. These are good answers. Y'all are so great. I'm like, I would find out who's making Beyonce's custom wigs and fly them to my home. That's art. That's art. Exactly.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
That's what you were going to say? That was your answer now, Tali?
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Great minds. Okay. All right. Well, question number two, which of these newly added celebrity billionaires is worth the most money? A. Jerry Seinfeld. B. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Or C. Bruce Springsteen.
It's Been a Minute
Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
The answer is, in fact, C, our blue collar icon, the boss, Bruce Springsteen. And just so you know, Jerry and Arnold are valued at $1.1 billion each, while Bruce tops out at $1.2 billion. Maybe that's some of that catalog in there you're talking about, Netta.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Although I have to add that Mr. Springsteen claimed to The Telegraph last year that he is not a billionaire because he, quote, spent too much money on superfluous things, to which I have to ask, what do you think Bruce spent all his money on? Do you think it was an affordable home in a walkable neighborhood? Yeah.
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Oaklee, Cohen, & Mateo: why are these Gen-Alpha's hottest names?
Maybe he's just getting all of his blue jeans repaired. I don't know. I really feel like it could be denim related. Like maybe he has, I don't know, a denim addiction. Who knows? All right. Well, to recap the score, Netta, you are at zero points and Naftali, you're at two points. All right. So without further ado, the final question, and to keep this spicy...
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Question number two. Pope Leo XIII's 25 years as pope made him the fourth longest serving pope of all time. Pope Urban VII is famous for having the shortest reign ever. How many calendar days was his papacy? Was it A, five days, B, 10 days, or C, 12 days? I think A. I'm going to go C. Wow. The answer is C, 12 days. Wow. Wow.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Pope Urban VII was elected pope on September 15th, 1590, but unfortunately died 12 days later on September 27th at the age of 69 due to malaria. Oh, my God. R.I.P. Tragic ending. R.I.P. All right. Well, to recap the score, Antonia, you are at two points. Jason, you are at zero points. It's not right. It's not right. There's so much more.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
And during this process, the cardinals, they get a little messy as they form political factions and jockey for votes to become the next pontiff. Well, we are about to see that same process play out next week as the world's cardinals converge on Vatican City.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
No. All right. So something that I like to do to shake it up. So third question is going to be winner takes all. Okay. Okay. Pope Leo X was one of the most lavish popes in history, known for his spending on the arts, charities, his friends, and even himself. I wish I could have been his friend. He sounds fab.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
He even managed to spend all the treasures of the previous pope, driving the papacy into debt.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I know. Diva down. What powerful, wealthy family was Pope Leo X a member of? Was it... A, the House of Borgia, B, the House of Habsburg, or C, the House of Medici?
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Jason, by a razor-thin edge, okay. The answer is C, House of Medici. Pope Leo X wasn't the only Medici to hold the papacy. The wealthy European family produced three other popes in Pope Clement VII, Pope Pius IV, and Pope Leo XI. The 11th. Jason, I feel like it's the end of the Super Bowl. You just won the ring. I'm stunned. I'm stunned right now. Oh, my gosh. All right. Well, that's it.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
But did you know for this week, congratulations to Jason on your win. Congrats. Holding it down.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Well-deserved. Well-deserved. Jason and Tonya, thank you both so much for joining me today.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
That was NPR's religion correspondent, Jason DeRose, and the host of LAist's Imperfect Paradise, Antonia Sarahito. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our executive producer is Barton Girdwood. Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
And there is quite a bit at stake here because these men are going to ultimately decide the ideological direction of a church with 1.4 billion followers globally. So that has me wondering, what are the current factions within the Catholic Church? How will Pope Francis's legacy impact the upcoming conclave? And what should we make of Catholicism's broader cultural influence right now?
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I know, Jason, that you have seen the movie Conclave, like many of us have. But you are somebody that covers this stuff hard by. You are in Rome right now, okay? So I want to hear the real from you. How exactly does the Conclave work?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. This week, we're connecting the dots between Hollywood, Vatican City, and Lampedusa. I know, I know. How are all of these places connected?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Wow, okay. So what does the actual voting process look like?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I was going to say, I feel like in this conclave too, many of them have never even met. I don't know if I could recognize the handwriting of a complete stranger from a hundred something other people.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Yeah, I read that they used to meet like twice yearly or something like that. And even that hasn't happened in a while. So this is going to be a good mix. How have you all seen people or the public at large in general kind of attach to or talk about these papabilas, these possible popes?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Yeah. Jason, what are you hearing? You're in Rome right now. You're on the ground. What have you observed?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I mean, I could see a little hometown bias in that, for sure, for sure. As I was researching, I had a whole list. I was starting with like 25, 30 names and I was like whittling it down.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
The full board, like some strings connected.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I want to reflect a little bit before we get into this upcoming conclave. I want to reflect a little bit on Pope Francis's papacy. What was his influence on the church and how will he be remembered? I want to start with you, Antonia, on this and then go to you, Jason.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Well, we're going to find out with NPR's religion correspondent, Jason DeRose, and the LAist's Antonia Serahito. Jason, Antonia, welcome to It's Been a Minute.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Wearing that hard like Montclair-esque winter coat that was clearly AI generated, but I wanted one.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Yeah, Jason, please.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
All right, second question. If you were a cardinal in the Vatican right now, would you be one of the chain vapors? Like everyone's like third favorite cardinal from the 2024 film Conclave. Would you be chain vaping right now in the Vatican? Jason, would you?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
And that seems like a significant move.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
But one of the things that was so interesting is that even though Pope Francis became something of a political figure, you know, there's not really a clear cut way of thinking about the various political positions of these various cardinals. And so I wonder, like, if the new pope were to be more conservative than Pope Francis, how would that affect the global culture overall? around Catholicism.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
And is that even the right way to think about all of this?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I love that principled answer. What about you, Antonia?
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Yeah, even when you consider the acrimonious relationship between, say, Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and the Pope. The Pope had some pretty strong words for J.D. Vance, who is a Catholic, shortly before he passed away. Some people have made humorous remarks, like trying to insinuate that – J.D. Vance upset the Pope so that he simply could not go on living.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
But yeah, I mean, you summed up a lot of the reasons why I have become, you know, conclave-pilled, as some people have been saying.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I got one last question. Jason, your editor, Daniel Burke, mentioned that the Cardinals are essentially picking their boss, which kind of blew my mind when he brought that up, because most people don't have the opportunity to do that at their jobs. So why is it helpful to think about this conclave as a workplace saga? I'm wondering. I'd love to hear from both of you on this.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
I actually don't vape myself at this point in my life. If I was doing something that consequential, I could see myself getting a little jewel. That's just my opinion. Now, I will say I loved the scenes of any cardinal vaping in the Academy Award-winning film Conclave. It follows a fictional portrayal of the papal conclave following the sudden death of a fictional pope. Sound familiar?
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
It's kind of sick. I'm kind of into that actually. I'm like, maybe we need a conclave at more workplaces and see who survives. Maybe that's the key. Well, Jason, Antonia, I have learned so much here. Thank you both so much.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Thanks so much. And as a thank you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a game with you all. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer? Absolutely. Okay. I'm nervous. Don't be nervous. I am so nervous. Listen, the game is a blast. Okay.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
We'll be right back with a little game I like to call, But Did You Know? Stick around.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
All right, all right. We are going to play a little game I like to call, but did you know? Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week, and as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it. But don't worry, it's all multiple choice, so the right answer is in there somewhere.
It's Been a Minute
Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Are y'all ready? Okay, yeah. I'm ready. All right. Well, we are going to stick with our papal theme and quiz you two on your knowledge of fun facts about popes in history.
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
You never know. You never know. You never know. You never know. First question is, at 88 years old, Pope Francis was the second oldest pope in history. What age was the oldest to have ever served? Was it... B. Antonia says B. What say you, Jason?
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Are you pope-pilled? Here's your guide to the 2025 Conclave.
Well, Antonia, good job on that one. The answer is B. You were technically both right, but Antonio, you were first, so you get the point. Pope Leo XIII reigned for over 25 years and died at age 93 on July 20th, 1903. He's known for his intellectual spirit and his openness to more secular and scientific ideas compared to previous pontiffs. So there you go. Good to know. All right.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-16-2025 2PM EDT
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it. And I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 03-22-2025 4PM EDT
Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Luce. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it. And I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.
Up First from NPR
Trump's Tariff Response, Economics of Tariffs, SCOTUS Rules on Deportations
Hey there, I'm Brittany Luce, and I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called It's Been a Minute, and I love it, and I think you will too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.