Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1043 | Jase & Phil Get Lost in the Fog & Why Humans Are Afraid of the Dark
Wed, 19 Feb 2025
Jase holds onto one big regret about his book “Good Call” and relives the foggy day he saved by coming to Phil’s rescue. Zach gives a behind-the-scenes tidbit about what Phil’s movie “Torchbearer” should have been called, and Al makes a biblical connection to the Statue of Liberty. Plus, why did Jesus choose Judas as a disciple knowing what would happen? In this episode: John 1, verse 12; Luke 11, verses 14-33; Romans 2, verses 6-8; Matthew 28, verse 16; Romans 8, verse 11; Genesis 28, verses 12-15 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What regret does Jase have about his book 'Good Call'?
i am unashamed what about you welcome back to unashamed jace we were um last podcast we've been diving into these first disciples who were called and you had a point about light because i was talking about this idea of in that enlightenment like that paul was enlightened on the road to damascus there seemed to be this idea that
This come and see is like somehow there has to be an illumination to, I don't know if it's the mind, the heart, what it is that gets illuminated.
It's like just spend some time with me, Jesus says, and you'll follow me. It's like the light switch comes on. That's it. And he uses this illustration multiple times when he talks about being blind and seeing. The story I always think about, I know I've shared it before, but... Because, you know, our dad, he was in the duck hunting world.
Chapter 2: What happened during the foggy duck hunting trip?
He was real big about if somebody ever, usually outside of our family, would say, come to this duck hole and, you know, we'll get them. Well, if we didn't get them, my dad, he was like, never follow that human being ever again. And you remember, W.E. got into that category. He had a couple of strikeouts, you know, come up here. And I then learned after a while, I was like, if you get this wrong,
you will be excluded from any future venture ever. Especially the first time. You can have a strikeout later, but not to start with. So in a famous story that happened is one year the river was up. It was up so high during duck season that we were having to get in an outboard motor and go to our duck hole from the river. We usually drive, but all the roads were under water.
It was all water, yeah. And so we were having to track 20 minutes in an outboard, and so we would leave from the foot of Phil's house. But one morning it was so foggy that he was like, now look, follow me. I was like, you know, I know how to get there. Because you couldn't use your lights. You're just basically going by feel.
But what happened was, as soon as, because we had two boats, as soon as I backed out, just everything disappeared. And I didn't realize the current was so strong in the river that it flipped my boat around. So I take off. While I'm looking around for Phil, I say, no, I mean, it's so foggy, you cannot see your hand in front of your face. And we're going down river. I didn't realize it.
The wrong way. I thought I was going up river. Yeah. And somebody said, how come the current's going the opposite way? And I said, this is crazy. We have a supernatural occurrence. Because my first instinct was, I know I'm going. The West Tower River is flowing north. Because I was using the bank as my basis. I'm looking at the bank.
Yeah.
And I'm going due south.
But it's on my left.
I thought I was going due north with the bank on my left. I was going due south with the bank on my left. But now the current is going the opposite direction. And it took me maybe a minute to realize I'm going the wrong way. And so then I remember Phil's words following me, which was impossible because I couldn't see. So I turn around. and now we take off, and we're so far behind.
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Chapter 3: Why did Jesus choose Judas as a disciple?
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Chapter 4: How do light and darkness relate to faith?
And that's why Paul is very explicit when he references Christ as the cornerstone upon which—and by the way, we're living stones.
Well, and the Old Testament references is interesting because it calls it a cornerstone there, but it also calls it the stumbling stone, which is, to Jace's point, the same rock that becomes the cornerstone of everything we build off of was something to stumble over if you missed it. So, again, it's that illumination.
I thought about when you were describing that, Jace, and Zach, you might speak to this because you dealt with it in the movie, the Torchbearer movie that you helped write. I thought about the Statue of Liberty, which is a gift from France that sits in New York when people come in past Ellis Island, coming into New York, all those immigrants.
The idea is they're going to pass by the Statue of Liberty. And you remember she's holding up this torch. And so the idea was, because we had a revolution about the same time that France had a revolution, right, Zach? I mean, it was right in the same neighborhood. The difference between the two revolutions, and this is what the French never figured out, was that ours was based on godly principle.
The idea of our country started with the idea about God and that religious freedom and liberty was a big anchor point.
Yeah, I would say not just principle. It was based on a particular truth of the gospel and the biblical text that man is made in the image of God. So the anchor was that, that man – and it's a very sophisticated but simple argument – If there is no God, then who determines what's right or wrong for us?
Right. And I thought that was the point of the movie, which was so strong. I just find it fascinating that the French would send us the beacon of true liberty and light based on the cornerstone, the idea of who God is, 100 years after the revolution. But then even now, 150 years later, we seem to be forgetting that.
You know what the original title for the film, which they changed it, against my protest, the original title was not Torchbearer.
Imagebearer.
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Chapter 5: What does the Statue of Liberty symbolize in relation to faith?
Well, yeah, it's just like. And the only time I was really hungry is when I was in the Ukraine on that mission trip.
Because you couldn't find food.
Well, we ran out of food. We gave away what we brought because the people there were in way more severe conditions than we were. Well, I really know what it was to be hungry. I'm telling you, it was five days. I drank a little bit and ate a couple of crackers in five days.
Yeah.
And when we, I've told this story many times, but we stopped at that Moscow McDonald's after five days. And I mean, it just, I just gorged myself. I was paying people to move up in the line. Seriously. I had a box of money because the exchange rate was so terrible back then. I've never said anything negative about McDonald's since. Right. Because I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever.
But when you're hungry, it's the greatest thing. And they had one in Moscow. Having a place that you need to stop. So when he says I'm the bread alive, just think about the emotions when you're really hungry on what he's saying here. Good point. He's like, I'll satisfy that because he picked the strongest thing. Look, when he says light, well, how are you when you're in total darkness?
There's no worse feeling in the world. It's despair. I mean, people have a phobia of that. I do not like... You lose your mind. Yeah. As a little kid, I remember thinking walking at 50 yards from... Granny's to our house. Yeah, in the black dark. Yeah. And I ran. Nobody had to give me a spiritual sermon on it. I was like... You're just terrified because you can't see.
And every time you trip over that crack in the concrete. Stump toes. Well, and you think about door, gate, what's the significance of that? Well, ask somebody in prison when there's a locked door. I mean, and I'm claustrophobic. I don't even like being in an elevator. So it's like when you start adding all these things up, what he's presenting is really powerful. Well, I'm the good shepherd.
So it took me a second to think about that one. But I thought, well, how many times in your life are you running with the wrong crowd and you feel trapped and you don't know how to break free? And then you just start looking for another crowd. And it's like, wouldn't it be nice if you just had a leader who would say, look, come follow me. Yeah. Because it's all these trap scenarios.
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Chapter 6: Why is self-seeking dangerous according to Romans?
Chapter 7: What is the difference between Judas and Peter?
So I'm saying that. That is, now all these other verses start making sense. Romans 8, 11. If the Spirit of Christ, who raised him from the dead, is living in you. then he who gave life to Jesus will also give life to your mortal body. Once they got the Spirit, you are with Jesus always, but it's connecting heaven and earth.
He's at the right hand of God in heaven, but there's a connection now been formed because he poured out his Spirit into their hearts. Heaven and earth has come together, so he's with you always. Well, to the very end of this age, which is...
pre him coming back new bodies new heaven and earth i don't know any other way to read it well that's why it's why these disciples in john one they they kind of i don't think they obviously didn't understand what you just said in that moment they just understood it in part because he says um
When he's calling all these guys out, and then in verse 43, it says, The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee, finding Philip. He said to him, Follow me. So you see that repeated language of follow me. Philip and Andrew and Peter, like Andrew and Peter was from the same town of Bethsaida. Philip found Nathanael and told him, We have found the one Moses wrote about in the law.
and about whom the prophets also wrote Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. So they understood the arrival of the Messiah, at least in part, in context of the Old Testament. They didn't quite understand it fully yet, because they were thinking too small, as Jesus is going to point out here in just a second. Nazareth? Can anything good come from Nazareth? Nathanael asked.
Come and see, said Philip. When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said to him, Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit. How do you know me? Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you. Then Nathanael declared, Rabbi, you are the Son of God. you are the king of Israel.
So I think that was the context that they are thinking, king of Israel, the Messiah, the one that Moses talked about, but their understanding of what Israel or who Israel is was limited because Jesus said, you believe because I told you that I saw you under the fig tree. In other words, I performed a miracle. But you will see greater things than that.
He then added, very truly, I tell you, you will see Heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. And that's probably a reference to the Son of Man passage in Daniel chapter 7 when Jesus appears before the Ancient of Days.
Well, I don't think it's probably.
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Chapter 8: What does it mean to follow the truth?
It's about Christ, the Son of Man, coming before the Ancient of Days, the Father. And the Ancient of Days then gives him full dominion over everything and puts all the nations under his rule and reign. So it's this picture of a king of Israel, but your definition of king and your definition of Israel is probably too small. Christ is going to reign over all of it.
Going back to your text that you read at the end of Matthew, what does he say before he says any of that? He says, "...all authority..." on heaven and earth has been given to me. And what does he tell them to do? Go make disciples of who? The nations. It's like this perfect picture. God had a plan and he accomplished it in Jesus. And this is what he's foretelling right here.
They don't know what that means yet, but they're going to find out.
Well, I want to read the Genesis 28. So at 28, 12, Jacob had a dream. This is 28, 12. in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the Lord, and he said, I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac.
I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. I'll skip down and read the end of verse 14. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you. All peoples, all nations on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. Verse 15. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. That sounds familiar. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. I am.
Okay, you got it. Which is God's nickname.
Yeah.
I am. But I'm saying I think we missed that one in 28. Then he says, I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I promised you. But here's just a fascinating verse. When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, surely the Lord is in this place. And I was not aware of it. But I just think in our culture, in our time,
thinking of God, that sentence, it really spoke to me because I really feel like a lot of people, they're surrounded by God and they're not aware of it. They don't realize how close heaven is, how close God is, especially when you read all the verses that we've been reading about, even in this dream. He's like, well, God was here. You look at Genesis 1, God was there. He was there.
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