The New Yorker Radio Hour
How “Saturday Night Live” Reinvented Television, Fifty Years Ago
Fri, 24 Jan 2025
“Saturday Night Live” turns fifty this year. Profiling its executive producer, Lorne Michaels, the New Yorker editor Susan Morrison sheds light on one of the most important people in show business. Morrison spent years talking to Michaels for her new book, “Lorne: The Man Who Invented Saturday Night Live,” and she includes recordings of those interviews in a conversation with David Remnick. “Lorne was a real student of what I call sort of the hinges between eras,” Morrison says. To keep the show current, Michaels “paid attention to replenishing the casts in a sort of seamless way, so that it would never seem like an old guy trying to do an entertainment for young people.” Plus, one of the show’s most notable alumni, Tina Fey—rumored to be a possible successor to Michaels, who is now eighty—reads an excerpt from the magazine’s review of the show’s first season, back in 1975.
Chapter 1: What is the history of Saturday Night Live?
From the online spectacle around Leo XIV's election to our favorite on-screen cardinals. This week on Critics at Large, we're talking all things Pope.
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This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.
Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.
This is probably as good a time as any to say a few words about an appealing new comedy program called Saturday Night, which is broadcast at 1130 each Saturday night by NBC and is definitely not to be confused with Saturday Night Live with Howard Cosell, which comes on earlier in the evening on ABC.
In 1975, the New Yorker reviewed a new television show that aimed pretty deliberately to redefine comedy, and it came to be called Saturday Night Live.
Starring the not-ready-for-prime-time player, Dan Aykroyd.
The cast was a bunch of unknowns. Dan Aykroyd, Gilda Radner, Chevy Chase, John Belushi. But it became such an institution, you can barely think of a comedian in the last half century who didn't go through SNL as a writer or as a performer. Here's Tina Fey, reading from the review by Michael Arlen, the New Yorker's television critic at the time, published just after the show's debut.
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Chapter 2: How did Lorne Michaels change television?
On the recent Saturday with Candace Bergen as host, the show began with a not very brilliant takeoff of a presidential news conference, which showed the actor impersonating President Ford bumping his head on the lectern, fumbling with his drinking water and repeatedly falling down.
I do have two major announcements to make. No problem. No problem.
But then there was a crisply done parody of a TV news program concluding with a lunatic, news for the hard of hearing, which consisted of a newsman yelling items of news very loud.
Our top story tonight.
Our top story tonight. The release of our Francisco Franco is still dead. Francisco Franco is still dead. Good night and have a great day.
Also, a takeoff of a Black Perspective program with the Black host attempting to interview a harebrained white girl on the subject of a book she had just written about Black ghetto life. Also, an amiable but fairly juvenile parody of Jaws. Also a skit by a fine young comedian Andy Kaufman about a TV guest who couldn't manage to perform properly or at all. And so forth.
I would like to imitate Archie Bunker. You stupid. You are so stupid. Everybody stupid. Get out of my chair, meathead.
For the most part, in the past 20 years, commercial television has largely ignored the important new trends in modern comedy. Whether as a result of the caution of advertisers or of the personal prejudices of network bosses, mass entertainment television comedy has been firmly rooted in the past.
a synthetic Hollywood-style show business past, despite the fact that the new forms of comedy have demonstrated a considerable popular appeal. It's not a matter of wishing to replace Bob Hope with an elitist, in-group kind of humor. The popular audience continues to adore Bob Hope.
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Chapter 3: What were the early influences on Saturday Night Live?
Lorne Michaels also doesn't like to talk to the press very much. So a new book by Susan Morrison about Michaels sheds a lot of light on one of the most important people in show business in our time. Susan spent years talking to Michaels when she wasn't at her day job as an editor at The New Yorker.
Susan, I don't want you to give away your age or mine, but what's your first memory of watching Saturday Night Live?
I definitely watched it in the first season, but my chief first memory is being at the show in the first season. 50 years ago. 50 years ago, we got in, we sat right next to the stage in Studio 8H, and it was Elliot Gould and Leon Redbone.
But what I really remembered was the kind of strange thrill of sitting in a working television studio with sets being hustled by you and cameras on cranes flying over your head. So what really hit me was the kind of strange deconstructed aspect of it. I'm sure I didn't get most of the comedy. So let's start from the beginning of the beginning.
You've been an editor at The New Yorker for a long time. Why write about Lorne Michaels, somebody who people think they know who he is, And maybe they only see him as a sort of fleeting image once in a while on a show on a Saturday night.
My first job in New York City was working for Lorne on his one big public failure. It was a show called The New Show that was a primetime kind of quasi version of SNL. on NBC, and the show flopped terribly, but it opened the world to me in a very interesting way. And, you know, I would say hi to Lorne. And so I always was interested in the culture.
And around the time of SNL's 40th anniversary, 10 years ago, I was a new empty nester, and I had the preposterous idea that I was suddenly going to have a lot of free time. Right. So I went to Lorne, who knew me a bit, and told him, I've signed a contract with Random House to write a book about you.
I don't need anything from you because you know I'm familiar with your world and your friends and these people, but it would be a better book if you wanted to be involved. And after... you know, looking like he was going to pass out for taking a few deep breaths. He, you know, he loves The New Yorker. He agreed to give me a lot of time and open a lot of doors.
A lot of people don't know that in the very first season of SNL, The New Yorker's famous writer, Lillian Ross, and William Shawn, the editor of this magazine, showed up at the show one day because they were huge Richard Pryor fans. And they loved Lorne, and they kind of took him under their wing and showed him around town. He didn't really know New York at the time.
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Chapter 4: Why is Lorne Michaels considered a unique figure in comedy?
Yeah, and so Lauren definitely got this idea that... he would perhaps be asked to step into Sean's shoes. So I think when I came along, part of the New Yorker, wanting to write this book, I think a penny dropped with Lorne, and he felt there was kind of a continuity.
What's been its cultural import and importance, and why has it been able to last this long?
Well, in the beginning, it really was renegade. It started at a time when television was the Brady Bunch and Lawrence Welk. And because it was on at 11.30 late night, that time slot was like a vacant lot at the edge of town. No executives paid attention to it. No one gave notes. They could do whatever they wanted. But I think the reason it's lasted is that Lorne
He had a lot of really oddball jobs in L.A., writing for people from Phyllis Diller to Perry Como to Flip Wilson and, you know, a lot of schlock. It was that strange period of the early 70s when, you know, some of television felt like the 60s, some felt like the 50s. It was, you know, Dean Martin would have the Stones on his variety show, just almost out of obligation and, you know,
would introduce them in this disparaging way, saying, like, I've been rolled and I've been stoned, but I've never been any... Right, and even Ed Sullivan didn't seem entirely comfortable with the Beatles and rock and roll on his Sunday night show. Exactly. So the reason I bring this up is that I think Lauren was a real student of what I call sort of the hinges between eras.
When the music changes, you have to change. You know, by 1968, you can't do Love Me Do, which worked perfectly in 1965. And... We're, it's Vietnam, it's, we're in the writing offices when they raid Patty Hearst's Sinque thing, you know, gunfire and they kill, you know, all of that chaos of 74, we're watching Watergate every day, you know, it's like...
He noticed how one time slid into another. And I think he was always determined to not be that, you know, the grandmother with a hula hoop. He wanted the show to stay current. He paid attention to replenishing the cast's In a sort of seamless way so that it would never seem like an old guy trying to do an entertainment for young people.
So in a way, the show, which was replacing Dead Air on Saturday night and kind of replacing a Johnny Carson repeat on the weekend, was to become itself rock and roll as well as just the guests being rock and roll.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, Lorne, you know, when he was toiling in L.A. at these kind of lame shows writing for Perry Como, a bunch of times he thought, God, television is just a backwater. You know, the movies, you had John Cassavetes and Terrence Malick really pushing into new territory and rock and roll was so exciting. And television was, you know, it was still the boob tube.
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Chapter 5: What role did the New Yorker play in SNL's history?
So, Susan, now when we see Lorne Michaels in those little snippets on Saturday Night Live, he's wearing an exquisite suit and he's a guy of a certain age, but he did have one big moment in the show's first season. This is from 1975. Thank you.
Hi, I'm Lorne Michaels, the producer of Saturday Night. Right now we're being seen by approximately 22 million viewers. But please allow me, if I may, to address myself to four very special people. John, Paul, George, and Ringo, the Beatles. Lately there have been a lot of rumors to the effect that the four of you might be getting back together. That would be great.
In my book, the Beatles are the best thing that ever happened to music. Well, if it's money you want, there's no problem here. The National Broadcasting Company has authorized me to offer you a certified check for $3,000. This check here is made out to the Beatles. You divide it any way you want. If you want to give Ringo less, that's up to you.
I mean, first of all, it's an incredibly funny bit, and it was Lauren's idea. But it was an example of what Lauren calls the show itself speaking. One of the things that was very unusual about early SNL, or SNL even now, is the meta aspect, the sort of taking apart the show and looking behind the scenes of the show, be part of the action.
I'm talking with The New Yorker's Susan Morrison. Her new book is titled Lorne, The Man Who Invented Saturday Night Live. And we'll continue our conversation in just a moment. This is The New Yorker Radio Hour.
On Radiolab, a story about how the country's most brilliant doctors did exactly what they were supposed to do.
And wound up killing 20, 30,000 people or so before it was over with.
The question we'll ask is, how did this happen?
Yeah, that's not the right question. The question is, why would they do such a stupid thing? Yeah, that is the question, isn't it? Yeah, that's the question.
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Chapter 6: How did SNL reflect cultural changes in the 1970s?
Yeah, so, like, one would be, like, I went to Kansas City with Alec and Marcy to try to— get BTK killer off death row. They said, here comes BTK. I go, you know, his name is Dennis. Just go in to the room and just... Somebody walks you out of the office.
I do the, no, no, no, no, no, I know. Like that is no matter what you tell him, he knows it already. He's the authority. No, no, no, no, no, I know, I know.
We're going to meditate after read through. Your mantra will be Lorne.
It'll be group.
Then we'll face the sun and ask for forgiveness of our sins.
We get the warhead and we hold the world ransom for one million dollars.
I didn't know initially that Dr. Evil was based on Lorne Michaels.
Dr. Evil originated with an impression that Dana Carvey used to do, sitting in the makeup chair at SNL wearing a bald wig. Well, he was waiting for his George Bush wig before he went out to do his George Bush impersonation. And he used to do this funny impersonation of Lorne. And, you know, he's a particular cadence. Sometimes it's kind of pretentious, bloviating.
And so Dana Carvey, the first time he saw Austin Powers... He saw his own Lorne impersonation when Dr. Evil appeared on the screen. He didn't know that Mike Myers did it. Mike Myers is one of the people who did not do a Lorne impersonation around the office. That's hilarious. And complete with the pinky to the lips, which— That's a Lorne Michaels thing, too? A million dollars?
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Chapter 7: What are the key elements of SNL's format?
One of the ways Lorne, I think, dealt with that, consciously or not, was by playing into that with his characters, this kind of bored, self-satisfied, pasha kind of character. You know, he is... in some ways, you know, he plays his cards close to the vest. He is inscrutable. He can be aloof. People are always saying that he is stinting with sort of obvious praise.
Like if you go out there and you kill in a sketch, he's not going to say at the Monday meeting, that was fantastic. But he'll single out somebody who had like a tiny role and he'd say, you know, you're breathtaking as the third cop. So he, you keep people off balance a little bit.
It seems like everybody there is, even years after starting to work with him, kind of terrified of him. And he tells them how to live.
I said, get yourself an apartment you don't believe you deserve. So when you're After you've worked 14, 15 hours, you get to your door and you go, who lives here? This is amazing. And you go, you do. And you feel good about yourself. And the fear that it will all go away, which your parents are giving you, I'm telling you it won't go away. And I'm your boss.
And I can tell you that we'll be here next year and the year after and the year after that. And you will only make more money each year. So treat yourself well because it's the beginning of how you can adjust to other levels of show business.
He also has rules for comedy itself. And you get into this in the book, and I think it's absolutely fascinating. What are those rules?
One that a lot of people talk about is do it in sunshine. And what that means is don't forget that comedy is supposed to be an entertainment. He's always warning, especially young people, against going for kind of a gritty indie vibe. If you think about the posters for the movies he produces...
like Wayne's World and many, many others, they're very often the character standing against a bright blue sky dotted with puffy white clouds. He, Lorne, does never have a coffin in a sketch. You just, you don't want to bring people down.
So even while he's ostensibly being politically, at least oppositional to the moment... It's never that renegade.
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Chapter 8: How has SNL maintained its relevance over 50 years?
Let's listen to Lorne Michaels talking about his culture that he established and his management style.
There's an old Stanley Myron Handelman joke that I told the first time we got a Peabody. It used to be a straight line that you could take 50 monkeys, put them in a room with typewriters, and sort of later they'd write the word Shakespeare. And his was, I let them in there, you know, and I checked, and then I came back and I realized they're just fooling around.
My point with it is, is that's what we do. It looks like we're not doing anything, because they're just throwing jokes around or whatever, and you don't know, and they don't look serious, and they don't look that, but you create a culture with walls around them where they can be that.
He's describing a process, and it's a weekly process, and it has a rhythm to it every week. How does it take shape? How does the fooling around take shape from Monday to Saturday?
Like putting together an issue of The New Yorker. Every day of the week has a particular – there's something that has to get done that day. And Lauren says all the time, we don't go on because we're ready. We go on because it's 1130.
And so it is – Jim Downey, one of the show's most long-term head writers, used to say that if you got a lot of Swiss engineers to try to look at everything that has to happen in a week in SNL and figure out how long it would take, they would say, oh, probably about 17 days to get these things done. But you have six days.
But so it is interesting that within that incredibly tight framework, there is just this amount of foolery. I mean, just goofing around. And that is because that's the petri dish. That's a medium you need for comedy. And that's, you know, a good portion of that is them just making fun of Lauren.
You've been watching Saturday Night Live and studying it to some degree for 50 years, as long as it's been on TV. A lot of people talk about their favorite season. What is yours? Because it seems axiomatic that your favorite season is when.
Well, Lauren always says, people, everyone says that their favorite season is when they were in high school. When I was in high school was, as same with you, was the first cast. But my favorite cast is, I love the sort of Bill Hader, Kristen Wiig, Armisen cast. I think they worked really tightly together.
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