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Chapter 1: What is 'Signal-Gate' and why is it significant?
I'm joined by former Ambassador to the United Nations and former National Security Advisor, Ambassador Susan Rice. Welcome. We really want your help to help us navigate what's going on with these text messages of war plans that they invited a journalist on in this Trump regime. Let me just share with you what Tulsi Gabbard said during a hearing in the Senate.
She said there was no classified materials. I read it. I want to get your take on it, but let's play this clip.
contact the defense secretary or others after this specific military planning was put out and say hey we should be doing this in a skiff there was no classified material that was shared in that so then if there was no classified material ambassador you've been able to see what's been published publicly is there classified information in there and what do you make of her response
It's laughable. Let me explain why I say that, Ben. And by the way, it's great to be with you. Any meeting of the national security principals, this is the cabinet level senior most national security team, and that's what this was.
is by definition in itself on almost every possible occasion, those are classified discussions because even the topics that they choose to discuss tells our adversaries something of relevance. So having a meeting of the National Security Council principles is by itself a classified matter. Then next, here we are,
talking about whether or not and when and how the United States should attack a foreign adversary. The fact of that conversation and its contents is inherently classified because if an adversary were to have the ability to learn of those plans and intentions in advance, then that adversary could prepare.
both by hardening their defenses or evading attack, but more worryingly, by going after the United States and our assets as we conduct the attack. So military plans and operations are inherently classified. Add to that
that we know from Jeff Goldberg's reporting that Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, shared sensitive military plans, including attack targets, timing, sequencing, the ordnance or the bomb types that they were going to use. That is all inherently classified. Tulsi Gabbard is either lying or being deliberately evasive by trying to say no intelligence material was shared.
She may be trying to be very cute by half and suggesting that no product produced by the intelligence community, as opposed to the Defense Department, was shared on that chat. We have no way of knowing that. We do know, apparently, that the CIA director exposed a covert operative's name on the chat. That's inherently classified.
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Chapter 2: Did classified materials get leaked in the Trump regime?
the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence and the CIA Director engaged in a sensitive conversation about military operations on a non-secure platform, they would no longer be in those jobs. That's just how it works. We can't afford to have such recklessness and irresponsibility among the people who are meant to guard our national security.
Ambassador, do you see anything here that could potentially rise to criminal violations of the Espionage Act and how this is handling or other things like that?
I'm not a lawyer, and so I'm not going to make that judgment. But those that are lawyers and who have spoken on this have said this could well be a violation of the Espionage Act or a series of violations. It seems much more clearly to be a violation of the Presidential Records Act unless the people on that chat very deliberately then copied and downloaded the chat to a government agency
communication system, a classified or unclassified system, then they will have violated the Presidential Records Act. On that, I have enormous experience and I'm pretty confident in saying that. But for Donald Trump to say, well, Mike Walz has learned his lesson and won't do it again is ridiculous. More than insufficient.
The president who campaigned in 2016 on Hillary's emails knows very well how important it is to safeguard classified information. And if he can't hold his team accountable for this, then clearly he's not interested in safeguarding classified information.
seeing a recent poll that just came out about 74 of americans find this to be a very serious issue only eight percent say they don't find it serious then there's a group of undecideds there i just have to ask you while i have you on the show
You've been observing what this Trump administration, I say regime, has been doing in terms of attacking our allies, consistently talking about taking over Canada, annexing it, annexing Greenland, annexing Panama, throwing tariffs on this country, pulling the tariffs back.
really pushing our allies to isolate us form their own kind of defense groups we're seeing that in europe with canada making deals with australia while i have you i just would want to hear your kind of overall also by the way trump's attacks on ukraine a lot to unpack and i want to have you back on the show to go over all of those issues of course but while i have you here now ambassador you're just your overall thoughts of what you've been observing
Well, let me give you my overall thoughts, but let me give you, before I do that, a specific thought that relates to what we've been talking about, this so-called signal gate that is relevant to your question. J.D. Vance is revealed on that signal chat to have expressed a really shocking view that is consistent with the concern inherent in your question.
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