Joe sits down with Ilia Topuria, a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the Lightweight division of the UFC. https://www.ufc.com/athlete/ilia-topuria This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/JRE Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 5/18/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What challenges does Ilia Topuria face with weight cutting in MMA?
My man, what's happening? Pleasure. No, please, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you very much for having me here. My honor. I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm very excited about your journey into the lightweight division. Something that I feel very excited also about that. What are you walking around at? Like, what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45?
I'm going to tell you in kilos. Okay. I walk around 80, 82. What is that, Jamie?
175.
175?
Chapter 2: How does weight cutting affect fighter performance and safety?
180. 180? Okay, so you were losing quite a bit of weight. 35 pounds? 25, 30 pounds. Oof. Yeah, that's a lot.
That was the hardest part of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying all the last couple of fights that I had because it's like, I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in a fight game, you know? And it was taking a lot of time and energy from me, and I'm like, my dream is to become a world champion.
I want to end up this chapter that I have that I started in 145, and now it's time to really enjoy it, and I'm very excited about that. I already have one fight in 155. Jai Herbert.
Jai Herbert. I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way. Why do they allow to do that? I don't. It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do. It's like, you know, I mean, if you're saying you're 180 pounds, you're not really 145, right? So it's crazy that you're the 145-pound champion, but you're a 180-pound man. It's kind of nuts.
Yeah, but at the same time, if you go to the next weight class, you are playing with a disadvantage because the guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight. So if you don't do that, at the end of the day, you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy.
Yeah, like Islam. Islam Akachev is huge. I mean, that guy, how he makes 155 is, I don't understand it. Every time I stand next to him, I'm like, how are you 155? How much do you think he walks around? He's got to be 190-ish in the 190 range. He's got to be. That's what he looks like to me. I never saw him in person. Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and big.
I mean, he's not a small – he's not a 155-pound man. It's just so silly. The whole thing is just – it's an old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes. I've talked to Dana about this. I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC. I said the first thing you should do is get rid of this.
Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes. Because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85, and then 85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps are too big. 20 pounds is nuts.
I would do something with the drug test. If I go to your home to make the drug test, I put you in the scale. If you walk around 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the next weight class. Okay.
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Chapter 3: What is Ilia Topuria's background and path to MMA?
But when I started, I was like, okay, I'm very good with the wrestling. I can take people down. I can control them. I have a great ground game. But what if I go to the highest competition and I find some adversities? I have to be able to fight in the striking also. So I have to develop my game in the striking. And I start from that. And I start with my brother.
We were like the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to leave it. So we were studying every day, all day, like so obsessed. We were watching like all the videos of Julio Cesar Chavez, of Canelo, all that, practicing all the techniques and then putting in interaction, the sparrings and all that. And I was like finding my style, what that I really like to do.
Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts. So you are the first champion from Spain in the UFC. So it's very interesting that you got in there as a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet.
So I was the first guy to get into the top 15, the top 10, the top five, and then the world champion. We had a guy in Spain who fought in the UFC. I don't know if you remember him. Enrique Wasabi.
Okay, yeah.
He did the Ultimate Fighter. Then we have another guy also, Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job also. But before that, we didn't have anyone in the UFC yet.
So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain? Yeah. There was amateur MMA?
I made three fights in amateur. And then I started with a professional game. I did four fights in Spain. And at some point, it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European territory to get a fight. Yeah, and everything started from that.
But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally, well, there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite high-level competition. But it seems like that's not the case with your gym. No, it wasn't.
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Chapter 4: How important is wrestling as a base for MMA success?
Because this is what I exactly think that happens to Omar, because you see Merab from outside, like you are sitting and you are seeing him training or fighting and you're like, he's not going to be able to take me down. He's not going to be able to do that to me. And then you get inside that octagon with him and everything changes. Yeah.
It's like you have a machine in front of you who has like nonstop.
Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title. Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday. Yeah. Murab wasn't home. He was out running. Yeah. He won the title on Saturday. Daniel went to his house on Sunday. Murab's out running. Wow. He's crazy.
He came to Spain also to help me once when I had the training come. I was supposed to fight with Moser. He came to help me. Crazy. The same exactly. We were like finishing the training. He was going for a run. He was going actually to his house running. Yeah, there's no shortcuts. No, there's no shortcuts. No shortcuts.
But, you know, to answer your question, I'm fascinated by all the different styles. I like watching everybody fight. I love Volkanovski. I love watching him fight this past weekend. He's so great.
I was so happy for him this Saturday because he really deserved to get that title back.
Does it bother you to see someone win your title? No, not at all. You good? I'm good. You're like, I'm good?
I'm good. Happy for him.
You established.
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Chapter 5: What mindset and mental preparation does Ilia Topuria have for fighting?
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So it's not as tactical or technical. Exactly. It's just wild dogs. It's just wild dogs. I mean, that's why Michael Chandler is so popular because he fights like a wild dog. Exactly. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That's cool. You need the guys also like him. But I would never recommend my friend to fight like that.
Exactly. Yeah. I never would recommend to someone, watch this guy and learn something.
Right.
Right.
Right. Learn. Yeah. It's like he's so entertaining, but sometimes it's best to not be as entertaining and just to be better. Exactly. Yeah. And shut people down. At the same time, you don't have to be Bilal. Right. I see what you're saying. But Bilal, I think, gets too much bad rap. Like Bilal, when he beat up Sean Brady, that was very entertaining. And Sean Brady's very good.
I think Bilal just does what it takes to win. And also, he didn't really have a background in wrestling at the level that a lot of these guys did. He had to develop that over time.
Yeah, but there are two types of champions for me. There are champions who prepare themselves to win, and there are the other ones who prepare themselves to dominate. I prepare myself not to win because I know that I'm going to win. I want to win in fashion. I want to dominate. I want more people. I want people to be entertained.
I want people to be like, wow, I'm happy that I spent the money this Saturday night going to watch this guy. This is what I want.
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Chapter 6: What are Joe Rogan and Ilia Topuria's views on UFC weight classes and rules?
He's he's wealthy. He's done. Maybe. I mean, what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40 and his body just doesn't have it anymore, you know?
So right now he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could fight him. Right, right.
They could fight right now, yeah.
They could fight. Because if they put him against Paddy, I think Paddy beats him easy now.
Well, a lot of years off, right? A lot of years off. You know, on the feet, Conor's a motherfucker.
No, on the feet, he's a motherfucker. I know that. He can knock out, like, everyone.
If he's still the same guy.
Yeah.
But the thing is, he's 36 now, you know? And if he's natural, also, reality. Okay. When he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right? Because he's got to do something to heal his leg quicker. So what is he going to do? Well, you're going to take steroids.
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Chapter 7: What are their perspectives on performance-enhancing drugs and steroid use in MMA?
Then they're going to fight again. And then the day of, he hurts his back.
100%.
100%. I wish they... I tried to tell him that this weekend.
That would be a great fight. That's the fight to make. Because you have a world champion versus a world champion. Like, if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class, it's you. It's simple. It's simple. You knocked out Max Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You knocked out Alexander Volkanovsky, one of the greatest of all time. It's simple. That's a no-brainer.
That's the fight. You know, he doesn't want to fight 45 anymore. He wants to fight 55. World title shot. I mean, nobody would argue with that. That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Hopefully they make that fight happen. Yeah, hopefully. I don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage. I'd get rid of stand-ups. I'd fuck everything up for them. I would make it less marketable, probably. I would.
Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be a good one.
That's a great fight, too. That's a great fight, too. There's a lot of guys in that division. There's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds. Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155?
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Chapter 8: What are Ilia Topuria's future plans, fight goals, and business ventures?
Oh, wow. He said that on Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too drunk.
I don't know. He was talking shit. I mean, it gets people to pay attention. He's really good at getting people to pay attention. Yeah, he is. He's really good at that. I mean, he could be the next Conor McGregor star, like that kind of a star where the whole world is watching.
He has that weird personality.
Yes. Yeah, he has that. Well, he's very disarming because people, they see, I talked about this in the last pay-per-view. I said it's a very sneaky trick. Because guys like you, look at you, the way you carry yourself, that's a fighter. That guy's a dangerous motherfucker. But when you see Patty, he's dancing like this, his hair's flopping around like he's in the Beatles.
He seems silly, but then he fucks people up. And so I think people get confused.
Yeah, but he fucks people up like Michael Chandler. But when he faced a real fight, who did he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone that good yet.
But he fucked up Michael Chandler better than Charles Oliveira did.
And Charles Oliveira, this is what I was telling you before. When you got 10 loses in your record, that's not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. That's 10. When you're walking with a guy that has 10 loses... The level of confidence is completely different. It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that is undefeated. He's a dangerous guy.
In the striking, in the ground game, everywhere you look at him, he's a dangerous guy. He never takes the loose. That's a different mentality. You've got to have to kill him to give up. He's not going to even give up. You've got to have to kill him. In the case of Charles, if he finds some adversity,
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Chapter 9: What potential fights and UFC matchups does Ilia want next?
Wow.
Look at his face. Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg. Click that one with Mike Goldberg. Yeah, click on that. My God, look how fucking skinny he looks. Look at his face, his cheekbones. He looks like he just got out of some Russian prison. You know what I mean? Bro, that one on the right is insane.
It's fucking insane. With muscles.
That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost.
I think he walks around in 185. So he lost 40 pounds before he fought?
That's crazy.
He fought also at the welterweight division, right?
Yes. He fought – well, he fought Donald Cerrone, who was really not a welterweight either. He was a 155-pounder. But he wanted to fight welterweight when he came back. When they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight. And Chandler was like, okay. But part of me wonders whether he was ever really going to come back. It's –
You know what I mean? I really think that at some point he's going to come back because I don't think that he wants to leave the sport with a defeat. Right. That's what I don't think. I think that he's going to come back, try to get the win, and then retire in the octagon. Well, I'd like to see that.
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