The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
*NEW* Body Language Expert: When You Do This You Look like A Loser...(Sorry But You Do)! This Is The Real Reason You're Still Single!
Thu, 10 Apr 2025
Can you make someone like you in seconds? Vanessa Van Edwards returns with the science-backed secrets of dating and likeability - tested in real-life dating scenarios for the very first time. Vanessa Van Edwards is the founder of ‘Science of People’, a platform that gives people skills to improve communication and leadership. She is also the bestselling author of ‘Captivate: The Science of Succeeding with People’ and ‘Cues: Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication’. 00:00 Intro 03:02 How Important Is It to Master the Skill of Communication? 03:33 Are We Set in Our Ways? Is Charisma Genetic? 04:18 Different Types of Awkwardness in People 04:53 How to Make Friends – The 3 Core Friendship Values 06:37 How Do You Figure Out Your Core Friendship Values? 07:34 How Many People Has Vanessa Taught These Skills? And What Do They Want? 08:18 First Impressions 10:24 Profile Pictures 14:10 Add Cues for a Better First Impression 15:28 How Sunglasses Block Connection 16:21 More Good Cues for First Impressions 16:54 How Do I Make a Really Bad First Impression? 18:30 What We Need to Signal to Express Warmth 21:27 Breaking the Script 23:19 Master Communicators and the "Chemical Cocktail" 28:11 Online First Impressions 29:11 Be the Red Apple 30:17 How to Make an Impression on Zoom 32:08 The Story Toolbox 35:07 How Important Is Background on Zoom? 36:29 Where to Look on Zoom Calls 37:16 Date Experiments 43:09 Drivers and Passengers in Conversation 44:23 Micro Wins 45:05 Body Language That Indicates Attraction 49:35 Why Busyness Is Not a Mark of Success 51:16 The Jam Study – Too Many Choices 52:12 Prioritizing Self-Care Over Connection 53:08 Dating Checklists 54:23 Do We Get More Numb the More We Date? 55:32 Two Challenges If You're in a Funk or Feeling Lonely 58:26 Steve Being a Control Freak 01:00:14 Networking Events 01:00:55 Ads 01:09:20 Using the Word "Because" as a Leader 01:11:01 How Do We Know If Someone Likes Us? 01:14:20 What If You're Not a Funny Person? 01:16:09 Can You Learn to Be Funny? 01:16:57 Touch 01:18:10 Hacks for Being Funny 01:19:36 Channeling Other People 01:20:36 Microexpressions 01:21:37 Reading Fear in People's Faces 01:23:24 Seeing Disgust in People's Faces 01:25:09 How to Tell If Someone Is Angry Without Them Saying It 01:27:05 How to Tell When Someone Is Truly Happy 01:28:49 How to Tell If Someone Is Sad Even If They Don’t Say It 01:31:03 How to Tell If Someone Is Surprised 01:32:33 How to Tell If Someone Has Contempt Toward You 01:35:23 Can and Should We Change Our Personalities? 01:37:20 Steve's Personality Traits 01:38:49 Making Your New Partner Take a Personality Test 01:41:20 Conscientious People 01:57:05 Do Extroverts Have Better Immunity? 01:58:04 Personality Traits of Lifelong Singles 01:59:57 Should We Know Other People's Personality Types When We Meet Them? 02:01:38 Feeling Like the Vibe Is Off 02:03:31 What Are You Doing to Serve Others Follow Vanessa: Instagram - https://g2ul0.app.link/4i5lvOnaqSb Website - https://g2ul0.app.link/6KQtfyqaqSb You can find out more about Vanessa’s personality test, here: https://g2ul0.app.link/SnXJL6ntqSb You can purchase Vanessa’s book, ‘Cues: Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication’, here: https://g2ul0.app.link/L0YqrVvaqSb Watch the episodes on Youtube - https://g2ul0.app.link/DOACEpisodes You can purchase the The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards: Second Edition, here: https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb Sign up to receive email updates about Diary Of A CEO here: https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt Ready to think like a CEO? Gain access to the 100 CEOs newsletter here: https://bit.ly/100-ceos-newsletter Follow me: https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Get your hands on the Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards here: https://bit.ly/conversationcards-mp Linkedin Jobs - https://www.linkedin.com/doac ZOE - http://joinzoe.com with code BARTLETT10 for 10% off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: How important is communication in building relationships?
She was physically attracted to him, and I asked her, would you like to go out with him again? And she said to me... Really? Yeah, yeah. And now we are missing opportunities for connection. The thing that's going to make us healthy, happy, and live a long time.
Vanessa Van Edwards has helped over 400,000 students crack the code on human behavior.
Decoding universal body language and sharing science-backed secrets for better dates.
Smoother conversations and bigger career wins.
Vanessa Van Edwards, welcome back. The first place I want to start is can we change who we are?
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Chapter 2: Can charisma be learned or is it genetic?
They've actually researched this, and every person on planet Earth has these five personality traits, and they fall on a spectrum, high, medium, or low. and they're somewhere between 42% to 57% heritable. For example, neuroticism, which is how you worry. And high neurotics, like me, produce less serotonin more slowly. Serotonin makes us feel calm.
And so, like, I am having far more negative experiences than the same person in the room, and that's genetic. But there is 30% to 40% potential for change. You want a better relationship? You want a raise? You want a promotion? You want more friends? The good news is anyone can learn these cues and techniques.
such as decoding the seven universal micro-expressions we all do unconsciously, how to spot a liar, the number one mistake people make in a first impression, and how to become a master communicator. Can I teach them to you? Please. Let's start with...
I find it incredibly fascinating that when we look at the back end of Spotify and Apple and our audio channels, the majority of people that watch this podcast haven't yet hit the follow button or the subscribe button, wherever you're listening to this. I would like to make a deal with you.
If you could do me a huge favor and hit that subscribe button, I will work tirelessly from now until forever to make the show better and better and better and better. I can't tell you how much it helps when you hit that subscribe button. The show gets bigger, which means we can expand the production, bring in all the guests you want to see and continue to do in this thing we love.
If you could do me that small favor and hit the follow button, wherever you're listening to this, that would mean the world to me. That is the only favor I will ever ask you. Thank you so much for your time. Back to this episode. Vanessa Van Edwards, welcome back.
Thank you for having me back.
How you been?
Oh my gosh, your folks are so kind. Can I just say, since the last interview, the incredible people have reached out and just been supportive and kind. They ask amazing questions and so I'm just so grateful. So I've been really good.
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Chapter 3: What are core friendship values and how do they impact connections?
I'm a recovering awkward person. I was so awkward. I had a really hard time communicating with people. I was not well-liked. I had very few friends. If I can learn it, anyone can learn it.
I promise. It's almost impossible to believe that you were an awkward person.
I promise. You know, also, awkwardness dresses up in different ways, right? So I think most people, when they think of awkward, they think of that stereotypical, robotic, unreadable, saying weird things. That was not my brand of awkward. My brand of awkward was trying to be impressive when I clearly wasn't, telling funny stories that were not funny, talking too much. Shocker. Right?
It was saying the wrong things and over-communicating. I also had that Labrador energy, you know, like that golden retriever energy where I'm like…
Do you know what I mean? She just stuck her tongue out.
Yeah. I'm like super into people. And that was awkward because people would be like, back up. It's okay. And that was awkward because it created, I was so over eager. I so wanted people to like me that I feel like, you know, I was leaning into everyone all the time. And that created awkwardness for people because I was trying so hard.
So many people write into the show or speak to me in the street. And it's so surprising that the thing, even if they live in these, you know, densely populated cities, the sort of most pressing issue on their mind is, I don't know how to make a friend. And it's funny because sometimes they sell it to me in a gym and I'm like, there's 300 people surrounding us right now.
And not knowing how to walk up and say hello or introduce yourself.
Yeah, but a lot of us, I think, have casual friends. We have, like, you know, acquaintances, people, they know what we do, but then we don't know how to level up. Like, I believe that everyone should have core friendship values. Mine are, for me personally, respect. Meaning they don't show up late. They respect my time. Self-honesty. I actually like honesty, but I prefer self-honesty in a friend.
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Chapter 4: How can I make a great first impression in person and online?
The first place I want to start is with first impressions and how one can make a great first impression. Because first impressions are like, I make them all day, every day. When I meet people on the podcast, in business... in the street, at the gym. Someone might listen to the show, they come up to me. So I'm constantly trying to think about how to make a better first impression.
Because from the work that I've read of yours, they really matter, right? They really matter. They really matter. How much?
Our first impressions are actually very accurate. They find 76% accurate with our personality traits. In other words, people can accurately guess after a first impression how extroverted you are how agreeable, how neurotic. Actually, neurotic is the hardest one to guess. We can hide that really well. Openness and conscientiousness. We're pretty good at guessing that.
I can guess that based on just the first few seconds of interaction, which means they're lasting. So if you've made a bad first impression, It's hard to recover. I hate to be the bearer of bad news. We can work on it. But nailing that first impression will set you up for a lifetime of success with that person. So it's very important that we don't throw them away.
And this is the number one mistake people make in a first impression. They do it like this. Oh, hi, nice to meet you. Looking down at their phone or their iPad or their computer or their notepad or their book. When we are looking down, it looks very much like the universal defeat posture. Universal defeat is when we tuck our chin to our chest.
We usually have our very little space between our shoulders and our earlobes. We have our arms close to our sides. This, yeah, don't you feel kind of horrible? You look horrible. Oh, thank you. When you check your phone, every time you check your phone, you accidentally look like a loser. And I mean that literally in terms of losing and winning.
So in a first impression, you're waiting in the waiting room for a big job interview. You're waiting for your date, for possibly your perfect person. And what are you doing? Checking your phone.
So I'm sat there looking like a loser.
Yeah. That first impression that happens in the first few seconds of seeing you, and this is another mistake introverts make, they think their first impression starts the moment they start talking.
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Chapter 5: What are some common mistakes people make when dating?
So many single people I know, they'll tell me they have a list. They have a list of things that they really want. When I met my husband, I did not have a list, but there was just a connection there. And even though we're very different on paper, it just worked. And so I think that when people have a checklist, it actually blinds them to seeing a connection right in front of their face.
Yeah.
And she said to me, I don't know if this is on camera or not, so hopefully it's okay if I share it, but she's like, you know, I just, I don't know if he's as career-oriented as I was like. That's really important to me. And I knew that was on her list. On her list, on her internal list, career is right up top. Now, they didn't even talk about career.
So I said, well, do you, did you even know what he does? Well, no.
So she was judging him based on his personality.
That's it. And it didn't check the list. And so what can happen on these dates is they become very conversationally transactional. What do you do? Check. Where are you from? Don't know. Check.
So you're trying to get through the list.
So these checklists, I think, are creating a lot of rigidity. And then you add in the busyness trap, which is I'm so successful, I'm so busy. Busy is not a mark of success.
Do you think there's also an element that we've got more and more ambivalent with... The more and more we date, the more it becomes transactional, the more we show up without passion or interest or curiosity?
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Chapter 6: How does busyness affect our ability to connect with others?
I was just thinking that about something someone said to me a couple of days ago, which links to what you're saying. Someone said to me that much of the
of the incel culture is these young men spend lots of time playing video games and the video games gives them the sense of accomplishment the sense of building it also gives them the like dopamine hit when you like win a sword or some coins or something and so I was just also thinking about that in the context of being like a workaholic like if I'm working all day every day on a screen and I'm constant which is what I do when it comes to like going out and meeting people and networking for me it's like hell and I'm wondering if there's a link there I'm like maybe if I wasn't on the screen or for like
12 hours a day i'd have more dopamine left over to go speak to somebody
Dopamine and also the energy flip wouldn't be so massive. The energy that you're using on your computer is very much output, right? Like you're putting your energy into your machine to create content of some kind. When you go out, it's a feedback. It's back and forth. Having your brain switch from one to the next is very jarring.
And if you already get dopamine from your screen, what's the motivation for going out in person? There's only downsides.
My computer has never energized me, but these conversations always do.
Yeah, why would you go out? You're already having the best conversations you can do, and you're in control. And look, I don't know, just saying, I think you like control.
Do you think I'm at control? In what context would you think I'm at control in?
The reason I bring up the control thing is if you are on social media, you are in complete control. You decide how often you scroll. You decide where you click. You decide when you're done with something, you just exit their video. Well, you know, in conversation, if I don't like your answer, I can't go off. I can't turn your volume down. I can't double click on your like.
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Chapter 7: Why are modern dating challenges linked to too many choices?
Ask me the questions.
Well, I asked you the one about control, but you didn't really answer. You tossed it back to me. You don't think you're a control freak?
Probably.
Okay, thank you.
Yeah, probably. It's all context dependent because when you said control freak, I was like, well, I don't have any control in that part of my life. That's like a democracy. But typically in business, I think that I'm a control freak.
Yeah, that's why he's successful.
I think if you asked my team, they'd say, yeah, he's a control freak. Am I a control freak?
Am I? Yeah.
He's laughing.
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Chapter 8: How can leaders communicate more effectively in business?
No way.
Yeah. It was like one of those things where after it's over, you're like, wait a second. I wasn't that happy.
I have to say, I don't think he should call himself a code monkey. Yeah.
It's a bit, it's demeaning. Yeah. And also people, people don't know what it is really.
Like I didn't even really know what it was. I was like, what? It sounds kind of, her reaction was telling. She went, oh no.
Oh no. And so, so, so she says, oh no. So first of all, I said to her afterwards, why did you do that? If you disagree with someone, you can disagree with them, but then give them something else. So she was basically like, oh no. And then he's like, yeah, I love what I do.
Yeah, but I think he has responsibility there because he shouldn't describe himself as a code, a monkey anything. Yeah. You sound like you are a, like a, involuntary slave to something against your will. Totally. If I said I was a podcast monkey, you wouldn't think, oh, amazing, I'm so happy for you, would you? No. I'd be like, weird. Exactly.
It's the word monkey that they're adding that makes it seem painful.
I think you're right. He came up with a better answer. And this is the takeaway for leaders, is what question are you asked all the time? I know people in business are asked the same questions all the time, either networking or in their business pitches. I always think this when I watch Dragon's Den or Shark Tank. It's like you knew this question was coming.
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