The Bill Simmons Podcast
Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew
Wed, 09 Apr 2025
The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is in Augusta, Georgia, and he is joined by Joe House to discuss the Nuggets’ shocking decision to fire longtime head coach Michael Malone and general manager Calvin Booth with a week left in the regular season (2:16). Next, Cousin Sal joins Bill and House to peruse some NBA playoff and NFL draft odds (23:51). Then, Bill, House, Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and James "Baby Doll" Dixon do a quick 2025 Masters draft (57:14) before discussing walking Augusta National Golf Course and more stories from the week so far (01:09:16). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Cousin Sal, Dave Chang, Nathan Hubbard, and James "Baby Doll" Dixon Producers: Kyle Crichton, Chia Hao Tat, and Eduardo Ocampo Presented by the all-new 2025 Nissan Armada. Learn more at https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/crossovers-suvs/armada/html The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What was the shocking news about the Denver Nuggets' coaching change?
Just to know the day that ends and why.
Yeah, some sort of bad tariff news. And instead, all these texts about, oh my God, Nuggets, can you believe Denver? And they fired their coach and their GM. And we're going to be one of many podcasts who talks about this tonight. But a true stunner. I don't remember. I have a bunch of thoughts on this.
But to fire your coach and GM with a week to go in the season, when you have a chance to be like a top four playoff seed, this is like the NBA we grew up with. The NBA is going nuts again.
Well, I mean, it is and it isn't. There is no precedent for teams firing their... We have now in 10 days two playoff teams with legit aspirations for getting to the Western Conference Finals firing their head coach.
And Denver... Memphis being the other one.
Yeah, Denver went a whole step further. They're like, we don't like... The internal turmoil of this identity crisis fight that we've been having for what feels like to me, 18 months now, at least between Calvin Booth and his instinct to try and build a team with young guys and Mike Malone, who has in front of him most of the pieces of guys that won an NBA championship a couple of years ago. Right.
And this tension has been affecting this team for two years now.
Well, but think back to the 80s, though. I remember, didn't Larry Brown, like he was coaching the Nets and he just left for Kansas City or for Kansas University with like two weeks ago in the season, they fired him. It was the kind of thing that would happen all the time with the league we loved.
And the league, even though it still has your Sacramento's and these, but now I feel like, here's my theory. I'm going to throw this theory at you. I'm listening. The league is so deep now and there's so much talent. It ties into something we talked about when we did the over under pods with Ursula. It's like shit. there's gonna be some unhappy teams.
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Chapter 2: Why did the Denver Nuggets fire their head coach and GM before playoffs?
Well, you left out golden state and golden state who knew that they needed another piece and went and paid, you know, yeah, that's it.
But at least that's not like, okay. All right, that's not a Hail Mary. This Denver thing is a Hail Mary.
It's a what the hell is going on to me.
We're going to the playoffs and we're going to get smoked and everybody wants to play us and we're in a situation where on Saturday, Sunday, teams might be tanking to try to get a matchup against us. That's the level Denver was at with the way they were playing lately.
That's true. So what does firing the coach and GM have to do with the performance on the floor?
It's a good question. I'm going to try to answer it. Good. I think they thought their season was shot. I think they decided... I think they're right. This coach-GM situation, they were going to get rid of both of them. Josh Kroenke basically said that in the press conference. We're going to do something after the season. Why not now? Why not see if we can save it? This is a Hail Mary.
Again, let's do it precedent-wise. Point to a team... That's done this with a week to go? Yeah. In the last 30 years.
A point to a team that's had Jokic as their best player during this half decade he's had. That's one of the great half decades anyone's had offensively in the history of the league. And they have one title to show for it.
I don't begrudge the instinct of wanting to do something to change the trajectory. But the problem is... It's the players. They're not good enough. They don't have a team that's good enough to compete, to your observation earlier, with the depth. They don't play defense. They haven't played defense in two months. That's why they have a losing record over their last 25, 30 games.
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Chapter 3: How does the current NBA Western Conference depth affect team decisions?
I don't blame him one bit. No. I mean, when you have the best player on earth... and you have most of the nucleus of a title-winning team, then the appropriate thing to do is try and, in the first place, defend that title, and then in the second place, try and win as many as you can while you have the best player in the world playing at the level that he's playing at.
That seems like the right kind of decision, and I think that head coach built a game plan for the season, these last two seasons, around that thesis, around the idea of we should try really hard when we have this guy to be as good as we can in this moment. They just, I do think that this new collective bargaining agreement is a real culprit, is a real. The apron stuff.
Yeah, because they were, so they were like 5 million under the second apron. But next year, they're going to get killed by the apron. And I think they seem really scared of it. And, you know, there's some real money stuff with this team that has to be mentioned.
I think around the league, if you talk to people who know shit or who have a vested interest in it, they're like, thank God Denver's not spending more money. They have this incredible asset and they seem pretty good being middle of the road. It's the same thing people felt about the New England Patriots during the last 10 years of Tom Brady. Thank God they're not spending more than they are.
Then you look at the Philadelphia Eagles in your division and they're super aggressive and they're like trying to maximize the moment. I think that's what most fans want. I would not say Denver's doing that.
I wouldn't call Denver middle of the road. I wouldn't characterize.
I'd say middle of the road. They have the best player in the league, and they're not even a second apron team.
Well, they're going to be middle of the road this season. They went for it last season, and I think they paid the price. I think that they flamed out the way they did because they saw the one seed as a viable possibility. They played balls to the wall at the end of the regular season, and it took a toll on them because Minnesota ran them out the gym.
I have a couple other theories in this. The play-in, I think, puts a crazy amount of pressure on these teams. Not only do you not want to be in the play-in, you're in a situation where you could just lose two play-in games and then you're not even in the playoffs, which was a real thing for Denver, right? True story.
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Chapter 4: What do the latest NBA playoff odds reveal about contenders and sleepers?
Chapter 5: How is the Denver Nuggets' team chemistry impacting their season?
No, all the Denver fans.
Internal tension. They've been observing it. It's more than tension. They didn't fucking talk. I don't like it because that's on Cronky. That's on Josh Cronky. They're like, somebody needs to be the boss. At least he owned it today. The boss is the boss, right? You see guys not getting along.
You need to sit in a room and reconcile whatever the differences are because, again, you have the best effing player on the planet on your team playing at his absolute best. So the thing to do is try and – Capitalize on that. That would be my instinct. So how can everybody get along?
So you don't think it's Zeke Nagy extension? Reggie Jackson. Peyton Watson, who could be something eventually, maybe someday. There's some really bad team building. We knew there might be signs of trouble. Kevin O'Connor, when he was writing for The Ringer, did that big piece about the Nuggets and their team building. And Calvin Booth gave all these secrets in the piece.
Yeah.
Which is like GM 101, don't do that. If you're doing stuff that's working, don't talk about it. What is the upside? What's the upside of... Here, let me tell this reporter all of these things we're doing that we think are cutting edge. How are you winning with that? Now you're just giving your secrets to the other 29 teams in the league. Again. And he does this whole link thing.
And it was just weird because it felt credit grabby. And anytime something's credit grabby, You know, like, well, why is this guy doing it? Obviously, he had a thing with Malone and it was already there jacking. Where's the boss?
From that moment on. When that story came out on The Ringer, which is what, 18 months ago, 16 months ago?
Remember he tried to disown it after? He was like, I don't know. I thought I was off the record.
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of Jamal Murray's health on Denver's future?
I'm just saying we're talking about the Denver Nuggets.
I didn't want you to applaud yourself because you did go. By the way, I went under on the Clippers and under on the Lakers.
I don't know. The observation I'm making is that the concern at the outset of the season for me was Jamal Murray. Do you trust that he's going to be able to play at the level that this team requires through the balance of a season for them to get into the mid-50s and wins? And I didn't trust it at any time that he's not. He has been excellent, Jamal Murray, for a good stretch.
And they won eight games going into the All-Star break.
It was like, welcome to the season, Jamal Murray.
Yeah, but you know. It was like, okay, so Denver is legit. So we love Denver at this level playing at that, you know, and then Gordon went out with some injuries and Michael Porter Jr. has been doing Michael Porter Jr. stuff. And we have too much time and too many high leverage moments where the basketball finds its way into Russell Westbrook's hands. But he just shouldn't play in crutch time.
That's true. I almost don't blame Russell Westbrook. I don't either. I don't blame him.
When my son leaves the pantry open and my beloved dog Murph is just like, cool, I'm going to eat all the potato chips. Is that Murph's fault or is that Ben's fault? That's right. That's right. Russ sometimes in crunch time, he's just going to eat all the potato chips.
And it's like, you left the pantry open. He has to be on the floor doing that, though, because they are trying to do this rotating rest thing with their guys. I get it, too.
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