Crime House has a new original show, "Killer Minds." Every Monday and Thursday, dive into the dark, twisted minds of the world's most notorious serial killers and murderers. "Killer Minds" combines gripping true crime storytelling with psychological analysis from a licensed forensic psychologist. Join hosts Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristin Engels every Monday and Thursday. Search "Killer Minds" now and follow our new show! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is 'Killer Minds' and who hosts it?
Murder True Crime Stories fans, I have got some exciting news. Crime House Studios is launching a new show called Killer Minds. Hosted by licensed forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and Crime House's Vanessa Richardson, each episode of Killer Minds features a deep dive into the psychology of a notorious murderer.
From infamous serial killers to ruthless cult leaders, deadly exes, and spree killers. Along with Vanessa's immersive storytelling, full of high stakes with twists and turns, Dr. Engels will be providing expert analysis of the people involved. Not just how they killed, but why. Killer Minds is a Crime House Studios original. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday.
Follow wherever you get your podcasts. And now, here's a sneak peek of Killer Minds. This is Crime House.
Chapter 2: What era influenced the rise of cult leaders like Charles Manson?
We all want a little guidance in our lives. Whether it's a longtime mentor, a favorite teacher, or maybe even your weekly astrology chart, it's nice to have someone or something to rely on for advice when things get tough. That was especially true in the 1960s and 70s during the counterculture era. It was a chaotic time dominated by the Vietnam War and the protests against it.
To find a sense of stability, a lot of people looked to spiritual gurus. With so much uncertainty in the world, it was reassuring to put your faith in someone who offered a sense of control over the chaos. But sometimes, that guidance turned out to be dangerous.
Many of those gurus were self-proclaimed, and oftentimes more interested in boosting their own fortunes than providing the support they promised. And when it came to these false prophets, none were more dangerous than Charles Manson. Charles promised his followers the world. As long as they did what he said, they'd be rewarded with eternal happiness beyond their wildest dreams.
His disciples were all too eager to obey. They followed his every order without question. even if it meant committing murder. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original.
Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out CrimeHouse The Show.
Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters.
And to enhance your killer mind's listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting CrimeHouse bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her analyze what drove them to commit their crimes as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.
This is the first of two episodes on Charles Manson. Some call him a cult leader. Some call him a serial killer. Some wonder if he can even be considered a killer at all. Because even though he went to prison for murder, Charles didn't deliver the fatal blow to any of his victims. His followers were his weapon of choice.
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Chapter 3: How did Charles Manson's early life shape his criminal behavior?
Colonel was Scott's given first name, but if people assumed he was in the Army, he didn't bother correcting them. That's how he caught Kathleen Maddox's attention at a dance club in Ironton, Ohio. He was 23. She was just 15. Kathleen was charmed by the older man she assumed was a military officer.
So when she discovered she was pregnant sometime in the spring of 1934, Kathleen had no reason to doubt the colonel when he said he was being called away on duty. He promised he'd be back as soon as he could, but she never heard from him again. After a few months, Kathleen finally realized she'd been duped, and now she needed to find someone to help raise her soon-to-be newborn baby.
That's when William Manson, who worked for a dry cleaning business, entered the picture. It's not really clear how the two of them met, but by the time Charles was born on November 12th, 1934, Kathleen and William were married. However, it doesn't seem either of them was all that interested in parenting. William wasn't around much, and neither was Kathleen.
Most days, she dropped Charles off with her mom so she could go out drinking with her brother.
Let's discuss the impact of Charles' early childhood. Kathleen was a minor, so her judgment, reasoning, impulsiveness, decision-making, even emotional regulation is impaired because she did not have a fully developed frontal lobe. This also affects her ability to cope appropriately with the demands of being a new mother, not to mention any postpartum effects she may have had.
And given that Charles's father conned his mother, she may have some conscious or unconscious resentment that she projected onto Charles as a result. Her seemingly desperate and impulsive decision to marry William appears to be driven by more societal pressures on unwed mothers back then, not necessarily a marriage that was built on love.
And Charles later learning that William is not his biological father will more likely than not affect his sense of self-worth, his identity, and his trust. Kathleen abandoning Charles to go drinking indicates she may have an alcohol use disorder, and I also wonder if she drank while she was pregnant.
That could have caused a prenatal injury, and if so, would warrant further exploration to understand Charles's development. Then there's the layer of Kathleen and William's disinterest in being parents. The effects of emotionally absent parents on children is well documented. Those children tend to have more difficulty with trust, with self-esteem, and forming healthy relationships.
And when you compound that with the abandonment, and that William wasn't his biological father, that is pretty profound. Nurturance is critical for a child's development. And if their immediate caregivers aren't providing that or reinforcing a healthy development, that child is at risk of exhibiting poor emotional regulation later on.
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Chapter 4: What was the impact of Charles Manson's time in reform schools?
They are breaking generational cycles and they have learned to have healthy attachments as adults. Of course, this all depends on a number of factors, such as when that nurturing presence entered their life, how long they remained in their life, how available they were to them, as well as other things.
But the fact remains that children will recognize that their parents are emotionally absent at some point, and there is a likelihood that there will be some resentment or anger.
With all this going on, it didn't take Kathleen and William long to realize they weren't right for each other. Within two and a half years, they were divorced. After that, Kathleen turned to petty crime to get by. And on August 1st, 1939, when Charles was almost five, she was arrested after an unsuccessful robbery.
Kathleen spent the next few years behind bars while young Charles was given to his aunt, uncle, and cousin who lived near the West Virginia prison where she was incarcerated.
And this is what I meant about those other variables that affect resiliency. If his grandmother was a constant source of nurturance and affection, then taking him away from her and passing him around through different relatives like that really does reduce his ability to gain that resiliency.
Mm-hmm. And it was a strict household on top of that, and Charles was frequently punished for breaking the rules. And he didn't have it much easier at school. He was small for his age and prone to mischief. That meant he drew the attention of bullies and received discipline from his teachers. It was a lot for a young boy to handle on his own.
So when Kathleen was released from prison in 1942, eight-year-old Charles was over the moon. But, after a short period of good behavior from both of them, things went south. Kathleen had a hard time staying on the straight and narrow, and Charles took his cues from her. He stopped going to school and started stealing from local shops.
By the time Kathleen finally decided to get her life on track in 1943, she couldn't control her son anymore. In 1947, when Charles was 12, she sent him to a reform school in Terre Haute, Indiana called the Jebeau School for Boys. Predictably, things didn't go well. Within 10 months, Charles had run away multiple times.
He alternated between going back to his family and living on his own, stealing to get by. When he inevitably got caught, he was sent to even stricter institutions. In 1949, at 13 years old, Charles found himself at a place called the Indiana Boys' School. And that's when his life became a living hell.
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Chapter 5: How did Charles Manson's time in prison influence his future actions?
So it wasn't surprising that Charles constantly tried to run away, to the tune of 18 times over the course of three years. And in February 1951, when Charles was 16, he got away from the Indiana Boys School for good. He and a couple other kids stole a car and decided to take it for a multi-state joyride, which got him in trouble with the federal authorities.
Instead of sending Charles back to Indiana, he was placed in the federal system, first at a facility called the National Training School in Washington, D.C., and then the Natural Bridge Honor Camp in Virginia. This time, he was the one attacking others. In January 1952, Charles was caught sexually assaulting another boy while holding a blade to his throat.
And this is how I mentioned we're starting to see his overcompensation for years of feeling out of control of his life. He is ensuring he has all the power and control now. And control is what sexual assault is motivated by.
After that, he was transferred to a high-security reform institution. With nowhere left to go, it seems like Charles realized he had to turn things around. Or at least pretend he did. He became such a model student that he was released early in 1954.
Let's talk about this alleged reformation and why it's not genuine. Mm-hmm. By now, Charles has met the criteria for conduct disorder, which is a precursor to antisocial personality disorder. Since he's not yet 18, he cannot be given a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, but he is showing signs already of juvenile psychopathy. Criminality runs in the family.
His biological father was arguably very cunning, charming, and manipulative, and was actually using stolen valor to con Charles' mother, Kathleen. Kathleen also has a criminal history, one that took her from her son's life for a number of years.
In a family, history of criminality is important for us to look at because it shows there could be a genetic component for mental illness or psychopathy, but also it gives insight into learned behaviors. People who are abusive and manipulative are taught those behaviors, and Charles clearly had that influence and exposure with his mother and the institutions that he had been housed in.
Charles learned how to mirror others and what they want in order to get results, making it more likely than not that his reformation is not genuine. Now, that's not to say that there isn't a possibility for juveniles to be successfully reformed, because that can certainly be the case. But given what I just outlined with Charles, his, quote, model behavior definitely was a con in and of itself.
It was another way to remain in control of how others see him and how quickly he can get released.
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Chapter 6: How did Charles Manson learn to manipulate and control others?
But the extra money wasn't enough to give Charles the life he wanted. By the summer of 1955, he'd had enough of West Virginia. He wanted to go west to California. His mother Kathleen had moved there, and Charles figured he and Rosalie could stay with her. So he stole another car, and they headed to Los Angeles to move in with Kathleen.
Charles kept driving the vehicle around for months after their arrival, but in September 1955, a cop ran his plate and realized it was stolen. Charles was terrified of being locked up. The second he got the chance, he and Rosalie skipped town. They ended up in Indianapolis, where Rosalie gave birth to Charles Manson Jr. on April 10, 1956.
But the new parents didn't have much time to enjoy their new baby. Just four days later, the cops caught up to them, and Charles was dragged back to California. And this time, there was no escaping.
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In April 1956, 21-year-old Charles Manson was arrested after trying to evade car theft charges. He was sentenced to three years at Terminal Island Penitentiary in San Pedro, California, just a few miles south of LA. Meanwhile, his wife Rosalie and their newborn baby returned to California and moved back in with Charles' mom so they could be nearby.
At Terminal Island, Charles interacted with all sorts of convicts. Unlike his time at reform school, though, he didn't need to worry about asserting his dominance over them. If he didn't start any trouble, there wouldn't be any trouble. Instead, he decided to use his time to learn from his fellow convicts, specifically the pimps.
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