Dr. Tristan Engels
Appearances
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
In this case, Oscar has beliefs about himself that are being contradicted by society. So it would make sense that in order to resolve that discomfort, he will stand firm on his beliefs until they're no longer being contradicted. Of course, this is also an example of his tenacity and speaks a lot to his personality.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
On the surface, this sounds like his rise to fame is all positive. He's getting brand recognition and the admiration of millions of people. He's inspiring others, and he's also being recognized as a desirable bachelor. Ordinarily, this isn't something to automatically pathologize, but this is Murderous Minds, and we know where this leads. So
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Circling back to his childhood, we know that Oscar's mother was making every effort she could to ensure that Oscar did not feel different in or outside the home. And remember how I said that her intentions, no matter how good they were, might have been a detriment? The quote he referenced about the real loser really showcases that could be possible.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
In dissecting that quote, it indicates a dichotomous or binary view. The message is that you're either a real loser or you're not. And apparently that was the lens he was viewing the world in.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So let's consider for a moment that even though her intentions were genuine and came from a great place, she may have inadvertently overinflated his ego and instilled that black and white thinking in the process. And by that, I mean he's going to view things as either all good or all bad. He's either the winning participant or the winning athlete, or he's the real loser.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
He's either adored by all or hated by everyone. Not to mention with a possible overinflated ego, Having this sudden burst of admiration and recognition and attention, that could certainly exacerbate any existing grandiosity or egocentric patterns, which are often the core of narcissism and narcissistic traits.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Oh, yes, I'd agree that it certainly did play a big part in what connected them. I mean, we all seek common interests and common ground with every relationship we have, whether it's friendships or romantic relationships.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
But for someone like Oscar, who is surrounded primarily by able-bodied people, finding someone who has experience navigating a world that challenges ableism was definitely an attractive and invaluable connection for him. It's validating, and I can only imagine that it allows for him to feel fully seen and understood, maybe even accepted. Could this be an example of trauma bonding?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So trauma bonding is something that happens in a relationship where there is a cycle of abuse. It's an intense emotional attachment that develops between an abuser and their victim. And at this point in the story, there isn't any known abuse or pattern of abuse that has come up. So without that, it can't yet be considered trauma bonding.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
That being said, if there was psychological abuse occurring, it's possible that the very thing that connected them could be weaponized. in the relationship in manipulative ways.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
For example, if he were to say, I thought you of all people really understood me, or I thought you really got how this makes me feel, as an attempt to control or gain compliance in the relationship, that could be a way in which one would be manipulating their partner's empathy for personal gain.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So in relationships where there's an intimate partner violence or abusive pattern, this is something that you would likely see happening, and then we could likely see a trauma bond occur.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her analyze what drove them to commit their crimes, as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
It sounds like Oscar has some hypervigilance and paranoia related to safety, obviously. But before we immediately seek to pathologize that, we have to consider the context, which you laid out so great, Vanessa. He was taught at a very young age to be situationally aware, and he grew up in a country with extremely high crime. But more importantly, he has a disability.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And people with disabilities are at an increased risk of victimization because of their perceived vulnerabilities. So ensuring that Oscar knew how to be street smart or vigilant is appropriate just in the fact of where he grew up alone. But when you add that component, it makes sense. And his worry, although perhaps excessive, appears reality based.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So I don't necessarily think this is a delusional paranoia necessarily, but most parents teach their children about safety. And that doesn't automatically mean there's an underlying clinical disorder there or that the paranoia is a result of a mental illness, but rather what you're taught, what your experiences are, and the realities that you are facing.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And in Oscar's case, he's widely known, he's getting death threats, and he's got limitations.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
I don't think it's unusual. I mean, having very little place that you can go without being recognized or approached, not to mention receiving letters like that, it makes sense that people would become more acutely aware of their surroundings and their safety.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
I can see how it could turn into something pathological over time, perhaps even a part of complex trauma, especially when if you're that widely known and you are approached by strangers, you never know their intentions when they approach you. I know I'd certainly be concerned about privacy and safety in ways that I'd never considered previously if I were in his position.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
It's definitely eye-opening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And I'll hop in to discuss things like how Oscar's disability may have affected his upbringing and his path to success, how his success might have played into some of Oscar's deepest fears, and how someone of his nature might act in a moment of panic.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Let's talk about the effects this might have had on Oscar as a child. A lot of people have heard of the term inferiority complex, but few know about its origin. So just to let everyone know, an inferiority complex is essentially a persistent sense of inadequacy or inferiority stemming from childhood experiences.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And this will motivate a child to strive for superiority and compensate for their own perceived shortcomings. This term was identified by Austrian psychotherapist and physician Alfred Adler. Adler was the founder of individual psychology, and he is known for the birth order theory, which we've talked about in Mind of a Serial Killer, actually, as well as Adlerian play therapy.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Adler suffered from his own childhood disability, something called rickets, which is a disease that causes bone deficiency and one that significantly impaired his own ability to walk during his early years, much like Oscar. And his own childhood disability inspired not only his career, but also the concept of the inferiority complex.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So Adler, from personal experience and through his own research, recognized that everyone on some level will experience an inferiority complex. However, when you add in a physical disability like his or like Oscar's, those children tend to feel it more intensely as they are often seen as or feel physically different or less capable than others.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And unfortunately, the people around them tend to treat them differently whether they realize it or not. which magnifies those feelings of inadequacy. And this is why inclusivity is prioritized in schools for children with physical or emotional or learning disabilities, because differential treatment can really impact their self-esteem and their confidence.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Oscar is too young right now to not only recognize his physical differences, but also he doesn't have the cognitive ability to understand any sense of inadequacy. But when he does get to be around the age of four, he will start to have those realizations. It is expected, based on Adler's theory, that Oscar will likely overcompensate for his perceived inadequacies.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And typically, children with physical disabilities tend to lean to overcompensate by excelling academically or socially. Whereas Oscar, as we will learn... He overcompensates with excelling physically.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And regarding psychological repercussions, children with physical disabilities are at an increased risk of peer rejection, neglect, social isolation, low self-esteem, poor confidence, anxiety, and depression.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So let's discuss the effects of these series of rather traumatic events. Divorce can be traumatic for children. And while Oscar is trying to adjust to the changes that divorce brought to him and his family, he loses his mother quickly and unexpectedly. And in what you shared about his mother, she seemed very loving, nurturing, and supportive.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And it sounds like she was an advocate for Oscar and wanted to ensure there was no preferential or differential treatment in the home, which is critical in helping Oscar to build and maintain confidence and hope and empowerment. At least that's certainly how it seems. This might have been to his detriment, and I'll touch on that as we progress through the story.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
His involvement in sports seems to have been a big part of his identity and perhaps was even a healthy coping mechanism or outlet for him. An outlet he definitely needed in the aftermath of such a loss and of the divorce. It is almost as if he lost two core parts of who he is and who he was becoming in a very short time frame.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And if this involvement in sports was really his way of overcompensating for feelings of inferiority, then I'd imagine that this would create a lot of anger or identity confusion, resentment, and depression, especially if he thought that this was permanent.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Okay, so I can certainly touch on the psychological impact of this on a surface level, but someone in the disability community would really be able to speak to the impact of this on a deeper level. But Oscar spent his life trying to have the same advantages as able-bodied people. And he not only achieves that, but he excels, only to be questioned about whether or not he has an unfair advantage.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
This could feel like a constant form of discrimination that Oscar feels he has little control over. Not to mention the way that they scrutinized his body. That was very invasive. And it's probably a feeling that he's felt for most of his life. If we approach this scenario from a conflict standpoint, it would likely feel like a lose-lose conflict.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Like no matter what he does, there's always some form of criticism. So what we know about the resolution of a lose-lose conflict is that most people approach them with a lot of ambivalence and uncertainty, but once they decide which route to take, They are deeply invested. They are all in on that decision as it fits its own form of cognitive dissonance.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles learned how to mirror others and what they want in order to get results, making it more likely than not that his reformation is not genuine. Now, that's not to say that there isn't a possibility for juveniles to be successfully reformed, because that can certainly be the case. But given what I just outlined with Charles, his, quote, model behavior definitely was a con in and of itself.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It was another way to remain in control of how others see him and how quickly he can get released.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Yeah, I would expect he would. His fascination in controlling sex workers really speaks to what I've already been really touching on with Charles. He's overcompensating for a life of feeling no control to ensure he has a life where he is in full control. And this includes being in total control of others. Charles has never really experienced loyalty or
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
to the degree that most people do in their family, because he's never really experienced a sense of belonging or family in the traditional sense. He also learned that no one was willing to protect him when he was undergoing abuse in the various institutions he had been in, and it certainly sounds like no one really protected the people that he abused in return.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
So now, as an adult, he's wanting to expand on this control. As we know, he's looking to form a devoted chosen family, or what would soon become a cult, and that he feels will always remain loyal, prove their loyalty, and whom he can maintain control over by isolating them and expecting total obedience.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In a sense, yes, but not because he genuinely cares about them as people. Charles longs to be the one who is provided for in every sense of the word. So he cares more about their belief that he is their provider only because of what he'll gain in return.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And we've talked about just a moment ago about how he's really never had a sense of belonging or loyalty or family. This felt like another abandonment to him because this was probably the first time he might have actually felt some semblance of that. And now it's gone.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Let's discuss why Charles does not seem to learn from past mistakes. And there's a number of possibilities for this. But since Charles has been engaging in theft at a young age, it's possible that part of this is that he struggles with an impulse control disorder like kleptomania.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
That could be a condition on its own, but more often it is a symptom of something else, such as antisocial personality disorder. Individuals who have antisocial personality disorder or have such a severe case of it that it rises to psychopathy have a need for stimulation as well as impulse control deficits and they are not deterred by consequences.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He is also around an age where should he have an undiagnosed severe mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar, those symptoms would begin to become more prominent. But there is also a learned pattern of criminality here from a young age that I touched on earlier.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Not only has he learned that stealing cars and trafficking women is fast and easy money, but he's also been in and out of institutions since he was young, and that can create a criminal cycle. Most individuals who are in and out of institutions suffer serious setbacks financially and in meeting their basic needs when they're released.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It can be very difficult for them to find work, but also find work that pays them enough to get their own place, provide for their needs, pay off debts, let alone save any money. And they definitely have to work longer and harder for less money than what their criminal career is likely provided, making traditional work an unattractive option if they feel desperate.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
After all, the biggest risk for recidivism or reoffending is their inability to meet their basic needs. And Charles was struggling to hold on a job. So with Charles, it's likely a combination of biological, psychological, and social deficits that cause him to reoffend and not learn from his mistakes.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
I want to point out something you said, Vanessa, that's really interesting regarding the book, Stranger in a Strange Land. I've not personally read this book, but given what you described, I can see why he was so drawn to it. A person's interest in a story helps psychologists identify the concept of the hero's journey.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And that's important because essentially that is a projection of their core values, identity, and subconscious desires. Based on his interest in this book, it highlights how Charles has never felt like he belonged anywhere, which we've already covered, but it also shows that he lacked value and resonated with this book as a result.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In the book, the man from Mars discovered a sense of purpose and belonging on Earth by teaching people a new religion. And then there's his interest in Scientology. This has taught him how people find a sense of belonging and purpose and acceptance through religion.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
The other interesting part of that was when you said the character uses his mind to destroy his enemies, much like his interest in how to win friends and influence people. It shows that Charles has an unconscious desire to have connection, but also full control of those connections to avoid any kind of rejection.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He also has a fixation on mind control, and if he begins to truly believe in this concept, he could form a grandiose delusion regarding mind control, and that could indicate signs of psychosis.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Now, it was his life's calling. His interest in becoming a famous musician after hearing the Beatles was likely due to the fact that the Beatles had a massive cult following, particularly with young women.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
This is really showcasing how manipulative and parasitic Charles has learned to become, both of which are very good signs and traits of psychopathy. Like you shared, Charles saw Mary and recognized quickly that she likely did not feel like she fit in as a conservative woman among free-spirited hippies.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
She had a hard time identifying with the culture and making friends and connections and was therefore lonely and insecure and appears he was right because like you said, all it took was for him to be attentive and nice to her. These are predatory and grooming behaviors.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
A lot of these behaviors are learned, most of which are learned and honed while in prison for him, and I think it's also worth noting just how influential institutions can be. If you're incarcerated, and Manson was for the majority of his life, you learn that you must control your environment and the people around you to survive, not just with other inmates.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her analyze what drove them to commit their crimes as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
but with the correctional staff as well, since they're not necessarily safe for him either, as he learned very early on. Individuals who are incarcerated had very little to do. They paid very close attention to everyone else, especially staff.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And having worked in prisons myself, we were taught how to recognize this kind of manipulation and over-familiarity from some of the incarcerated population because this behavior is to be expected. They limit tests to see what they can get away with, and in doing so, are looking for specific insecurities that they can prey upon to gain loyalty.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
The end goal is that they get a compromised employee or another incarcerated individual one who could smuggle in contraband, for example. And then once that individual has done it once, they're trapped in that cycle, or they lose their jobs and possibly face their own set of legal challenges. So this is exactly the tactics that Charles is using here on Mary.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He's preying on her insecurities, and he's looking to entrap her into a cycle, one that makes it hard for her to leave.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
So why was Charles so obsessed with creating a group of devoted followers? I think we've really touched on that. You know, his seeking belonging, he's seeking acceptance, purpose, security, and he definitely has a low sense of self-worth that he's trying to overcompensate for.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But at the same time, because these are such critical unmet needs that he's had since childhood, he's very successful in identifying and exploiting the same needs out of vulnerable women through manipulation, through isolation, and drug addiction.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
The more he can keep them under the influence, the more he can distort their reality and perceptions and keep them dependent on him to supply not just the addiction, but their own sense of belonging. He wants to control their minds and using religion makes it easier to make his following feel a part of something important. And that's why he's drawn to becoming a guru.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
If he can use fear tactics to get them to believe in him without questioning his teachings, then he can indoctrinate and he can brainwash them.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Let's discuss why he would want men to join the family, because that's a deviation so far, right? Yeah. Charles, like we've talked about, you know, he wants full devotion from his followers, and he's starting to notice that he was losing their interest. And if he did, he would become violent towards them.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And if we recall that violence and abuse is a learned behavior, and in prison, Charles learned from other pimps how they were able to recruit and maintain obedience from women. And it's no secret that even if women volunteer to do sex work, If they have a pimp, there is inevitably almost always some form of force or coercion.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles is using violence and psychologically coercive techniques to do the same. So when he starts to notice that women are getting bored or their attention is drifting and his presence was not enough to maintain the discipline, having more men certainly would.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Not only could he use them to keep the women obedient, but if they were ever to get curious about the affections of a man other than Charles, and there are men in his family, they are more likely to explore that within the family than leave the family altogether. And that fear is far greater to Charles than anything else.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It's hard to imagine from the outside looking in that anyone would want to remain loyal to Charles when he is violent and he would take out frustrations on them. Yeah. So why do they continue to stick with him? Aside from how we've already established that he's a master at manipulation, we also need to think about the abuse cycles that occur, especially within intimate partner violence.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
The abuser vacillates between using affection and being loving with being abusive. The abuser isolates their partner and makes them dependent on them for their physical and emotional needs, making it harder for the victim to leave. This is no different, only it's in a group, which is arguably even more manipulative because of a hive mentality or group polarization and groupthink.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It's hard to deconstruct the manipulation of one person, especially when they are surrounded by an entire group who are lacking insight into the manipulation themselves. So imagine you start to question things. A group of devotees will quickly share that information and the pressure to concede or or face total alienation or even retaliation is high.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And that's terrifying, especially for vulnerable people who have no family or nowhere to go and nowhere else that they feel they belong.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
This isn't the first time that Charles has faced rejection in the music industry, and it hasn't derailed him so far. But Dennis rejecting him, I imagine, did not go over well, especially if that rejection was witnessed by his family. Part of why he's so successful in maintaining their loyalty and devotion is he continues to maintain an image that doesn't appear questioned by anyone.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Now you have an influential musician who... seemingly has a fresh perspective of Charles and his family and how demanding he can be. And if he was going to be reactive to his rejection, it was likely because of the fear that Dennis' feelings about him might influence his family and fracture everything he's built. In addition to obvious, the grandiose dreams of becoming a big musician,
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
I don't think someone like Charles is capable of introspection or accountability. In fact, I don't think he's aware that anything he is doing is wrong. In situations like this, I would expect Charles to get angered and project that anger onto the rejecter. He responds with violence.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It's a coercive tactic that he's used to maintain obedience and avoidance conditioning, meaning that he reacts like this with individuals because they're less likely to do whatever it was in the first place that caused that reaction. So he's conditioning them to avoid questioning him, to avoid rejecting him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at CrimeHouse. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Let's discuss the impact of Charles' early childhood. Kathleen was a minor, so her judgment, reasoning, impulsiveness, decision-making, even emotional regulation is impaired because she did not have a fully developed frontal lobe. This also affects her ability to cope appropriately with the demands of being a new mother, not to mention any postpartum effects she may have had.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And given that Charles's father conned his mother, she may have some conscious or unconscious resentment that she projected onto Charles as a result. Her seemingly desperate and impulsive decision to marry William appears to be driven by more societal pressures on unwed mothers back then, not necessarily a marriage that was built on love.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And Charles later learning that William is not his biological father will more likely than not affect his sense of self-worth, his identity, and his trust. Kathleen abandoning Charles to go drinking indicates she may have an alcohol use disorder, and I also wonder if she drank while she was pregnant.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
That could have caused a prenatal injury, and if so, would warrant further exploration to understand Charles's development. Then there's the layer of Kathleen and William's disinterest in being parents. The effects of emotionally absent parents on children is well documented. Those children tend to have more difficulty with trust, with self-esteem, and forming healthy relationships.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And when you compound that with the abandonment, and that William wasn't his biological father, that is pretty profound. Nurturance is critical for a child's development, and if their immediate caregivers aren't providing that or reinforcing a healthy development, that child is at risk of exhibiting poor emotional regulation later on.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
They have an increase in academic struggles, behavioral deficits, and developmental delays.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It's a really good question. Well, statistically, if a child has emotionally absent parents, but they have at least one constant loving and nurturing presence, like a grandmother, for example, they are more likely to be resilient. and overcome those statistical odds that I'd mentioned. And that's why there's so many adult children of emotionally absent parents who are high functioning.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
They are breaking generational cycles and they have learned to have healthy attachments as adults. Of course, this all depends on a number of factors, such as when that nurturing presence entered their life, how long they remained in their life, how available they were to them, as well as other things.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But the fact remains that children will recognize that their parents are emotionally absent at some point, and there is a likelihood that there will be some resentment or anger.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And this is what I meant about those other variables that affect resiliency. If his grandmother was a constant source of nurturance and affection, then taking him away from her and passing him around through different relatives like that really does reduce his ability to gain that resiliency.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Oh, wow. There's a lot to unpack here. So until this point, Charles has had no real stability or security in his life, starting from a very young age, not to mention the many broken attachments he's had until this point.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
His mother was seemingly grooming him into a career criminal and then once again abandoned him, this time to a reform school, because she could no longer control what she herself had actually helped to create. Now, at this boy's school, he continues to lack any control over his life. And once again, the adults that should be protecting him aren't, and instead are encouraging crimes against him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And this, I believe, greatly impacted his ability to empathize with others, or rather his lack of ability to do that, and why he only forms attachments to others if he has something to gain from them. And those attachments will remain superficial. He is learning more versatile ways to be a criminal. And more importantly, this really shapes who he is to become.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
His lack of control is going to be overcompensated by a need to always be in control of everyone and everything around him, which we will definitely be getting into in detail as you take us through his story.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And this is how I mentioned we're starting to see his overcompensation for years of feeling out of control of his life. He is ensuring he has all the power and control now. And control is what sexual assault is motivated by.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Let's talk about this alleged reformation and why it's not genuine.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
By now, Charles has met the criteria for conduct disorder, which is a precursor to antisocial personality disorder. Since he's not yet 18, he cannot be given a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, but he is showing signs already of juvenile psychopathy. Criminality runs in the family.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
His biological father was arguably very cunning, charming, and manipulative, and was actually using stolen valor to con Charles' mother, Kathleen. Kathleen also has a criminal history, one that took her from her son's life for a number of years.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In a family, history of criminality is important for us to look at because it shows there could be a genetic component for mental illness or psychopathy, but also it gives insight into learned behaviors. People who are abusive and manipulative are taught those behaviors, and Charles clearly had that influence and exposure with his mother and the institutions that he had been housed in.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
His biological father was arguably very cunning, charming, and manipulative, and was actually using stolen valor to con Charles' mother, Kathleen. Kathleen also has a criminal history, one that took her from her son's life for a number of years.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
In a family, history of criminality is important for us to look at because it shows there could be a genetic component for mental illness or psychopathy, but also it gives insight into learned behaviors. People who are abusive and manipulative are taught those behaviors, and Charles clearly had that influence and exposure with his mother and the institutions that he had been housed in.
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Charles learned how to mirror others and what they want in order to get results, making it more likely than not that his reformation is not genuine. Now, that's not to say that there isn't a possibility for juveniles to be successfully reformed, because that can certainly be the case. But given what I just outlined with Charles, his, quote, model behavior definitely was a con in and of itself.
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It was another way to remain in control of how others see him and how quickly he can get released.
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Yeah, I would expect he would. His fascination in controlling sex workers really speaks to what I've already been really touching on with Charles. He's overcompensating for a life of feeling no control to ensure he has a life where he is in full control. And this includes being in total control of others. Charles has never really experienced loyalty before.
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to the degree that most people do in their family, because he's never really experienced a sense of belonging or family in the traditional sense. He also learned that no one was willing to protect him when he was undergoing abuse in the various institutions he had been in, and it certainly sounds like no one really protected the people that he abused in return.
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So now, as an adult, he's wanting to expand on this control. As we know, he's looking to form a devoted chosen family, or what would soon become a cult, and that, he feels, will always remain loyal, prove their loyalty, and whom he can maintain control over by isolating them and expecting total obedience.
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In a sense, yes, but not because he genuinely cares about them as people. Charles longs to be the one who is provided for in every sense of the word. So he cares more about their belief that he is their provider only because of what he'll gain in return.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And we've talked about just a moment ago about how he's really never had a sense of belonging or loyalty or family. This felt like another abandonment to him because this was probably the first time he might have actually felt some semblance of that. And now it's gone.
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Let's discuss why Charles does not seem to learn from past mistakes. And there's a number of possibilities for this. But since Charles has been engaging in theft at a young age, it's possible that part of this is that he struggles with an impulse control disorder, like kleptomania.
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That could be a condition on its own, but more often it is a symptom of something else, such as antisocial personality disorder. Individuals who have antisocial personality disorder or have such a severe case of it that it rises to psychopathy have a need for stimulation as well as impulse control deficits and they are not deterred by consequences.
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He is also around an age where should he have an undiagnosed severe mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar, those symptoms would begin to become more prominent. But there is also a learned pattern of criminality here from a young age that I touched on earlier.
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Not only has he learned that stealing cars and trafficking women is fast and easy money, but he's also been in and out of institutions since he was young, and that can create a criminal cycle. Most individuals who are in and out of institutions suffer serious setbacks financially and in meeting their basic needs when they're released.
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It can be very difficult for them to find work, but also find work that pays them enough to get their own place, provide for their needs, pay off debts, let alone save any money. And they definitely have to work longer and harder for less money than what their criminal career is likely provided, making traditional work an unattractive option if they feel desperate.
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After all, the biggest risk for recidivism or reoffending is their inability to meet their basic needs. And Charles was struggling to hold down a job. So with Charles, it's likely a combination of biological, psychological, and social deficits that cause him to reoffend and not learn from his mistakes.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
I want to point out something you said, Vanessa, that's really interesting regarding the book, Stranger in a Strange Land. I've not personally read this book, but given what you described, I can see why he was so drawn to it. A person's interest in a story helps psychologists identify the concept of the hero's journey.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And that's important because essentially that is a projection of their core values, identity, and subconscious desires. Based on his interest in this book, it highlights how Charles has never felt like he belonged anywhere, which we've already covered, but it also shows that he lacked value and resonated with this book as a result.
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In the book, the man from Mars discovered a sense of purpose and belonging on Earth by teaching people a new religion. And then there's his interest in Scientology. This has taught him how people find a sense of belonging and purpose and acceptance through religion.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
The other interesting part of that was when you said the character uses his mind to destroy his enemies, much like his interest in how to win friends and influence people. It shows that Charles has an unconscious desire to have connection, but also full control of those connections to avoid any kind of rejection.
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He also has a fixation on mind control, and if he begins to truly believe in this concept, he could form a grandiose delusion regarding mind control, and that could indicate signs of psychosis.
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Now, it was his life's calling. His interest in becoming a famous musician after hearing the Beatles was likely due to the fact that the Beatles had a massive cult following, particularly with young women.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her analyze what drove them to commit their crimes as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
This isn't the first time that Charles has faced rejection in the music industry, and it hasn't derailed him so far. But Dennis rejecting him, I imagine, did not go over well, especially if that rejection was witnessed by his family. Part of why he's so successful in maintaining their loyalty and devotion is he continues to maintain an image that doesn't appear questioned by anyone.
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Now you have an influential musician who seemingly has a fresh perspective of Charles and his family and how demanding he can be. And if he was going to be reactive to his rejection, it was likely because of the fear that Dennis's feelings about him might influence his family and fracture everything he's built. In addition to obvious, the grandiose dreams of becoming a big musician.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
I don't think someone like Charles is capable of introspection or accountability. In fact, I don't think he's aware that anything he is doing is wrong. In situations like this, I would expect Charles to get angered and project that anger onto the rejecter. He responds with violence.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
It's a coercive tactic that he's used to maintain obedience and avoidance conditioning, meaning that he reacts like this with individuals because they're less likely to do whatever it was in the first place that caused that reaction. So he's conditioning them to avoid questioning him, to avoid rejecting him.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at CrimeHouse. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Let's discuss the impact of Charles' early childhood. Kathleen was a minor, so her judgment, reasoning, impulsiveness, decision-making, even emotional regulation is impaired because she did not have a fully developed frontal lobe. This also affects her ability to cope appropriately with the demands of being a new mother, not to mention any postpartum effects she may have had.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And given that Charles's father conned his mother, she may have some conscious or unconscious resentment that she projected onto Charles as a result. Her seemingly desperate and impulsive decision to marry William appears to be driven by more societal pressures on unwed mothers back then, not necessarily a marriage that was built on love.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And Charles later learning that William is not his biological father will more likely than not affect his sense of self-worth, his identity, and his trust. Kathleen abandoning Charles to go drinking indicates she may have an alcohol use disorder, and I also wonder if she drank while she was pregnant.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
That could have caused a prenatal injury, and if so, would warrant further exploration to understand Charles's development. Then there's the layer of Kathleen and William's disinterest in being parents. The effects of emotionally absent parents on children is well documented. Those children tend to have more difficulty with trust, with self-esteem, and forming healthy relationships.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And when you compound that with the abandonment, and that William wasn't his biological father, that is pretty profound. Nurturance is critical for a child's development. And if their immediate caregivers aren't providing that or reinforcing a healthy development, that child is at risk of exhibiting poor emotional regulation later on.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
They have an increase in academic struggles, behavioral deficits, and developmental delays.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
That's a really good question. Well, statistically, if a child has emotionally absent parents, but they have at least one constant loving and nurturing presence, like a grandmother, for example, they are more likely to be resilient. and overcome those statistical odds that I'd mentioned. And that's why there's so many adult children of emotionally absent parents who are high functioning.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
They are breaking generational cycles and they have learned to have healthy attachments as adults. Of course, this all depends on a number of factors, such as when that nurturing presence entered their life, how long they remained in their life, how available they were to them, as well as other things.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
But the fact remains that children will recognize that their parents are emotionally absent at some point, and there is a likelihood that there will be some resentment or anger.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And this is what I meant about those other variables that affect resiliency. If his grandmother was a constant source of nurturance and affection, then taking him away from her and passing him around through different relatives like that really does reduce his ability to gain that resiliency.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Oh, wow. There's a lot to unpack here. So until this point, Charles has had no real stability or security in his life, starting from a very young age, not to mention the many broken attachments he's had until this point.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
His mother was seemingly grooming him into a career criminal and then once again abandoned him, this time to a reform school, because she could no longer control what she herself had actually helped to create. Now, at this boy's school, he continues to lack any control over his life. And once again, the adults that should be protecting him aren't, and instead are encouraging crimes against him.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And this, I believe, greatly impacted his ability to empathize with others, or rather his lack of ability to do that, and why he only forms attachments to others if he has something to gain from them. And those attachments will remain superficial. He is learning more versatile ways to be a criminal, and more importantly, this really shapes who he is to become.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
His lack of control is going to be overcompensated by a need to always be in control of everyone and everything around him, which we will definitely be getting into in detail as you take us through his story.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And this is how I mentioned we're starting to see his overcompensation for years of feeling out of control of his life. He is ensuring he has all the power and control now. And control is what sexual assault is motivated by.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Let's talk about this alleged reformation and why it's not genuine. Mm-hmm. By now, Charles has met the criteria for conduct disorder, which is a precursor to antisocial personality disorder. Since he's not yet 18, he cannot be given a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, but he is showing signs already of juvenile psychopathy. Criminality runs in the family.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
And that's where I come in. My name is Dr. Tristan Angles. As a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, I've dedicated my career to understanding offenders and what drives them. As Vanessa takes you through the stories of history's most famous violent offenders, I'll be analyzing their minds, their motives, and their murders.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
Let's discuss the impact of Charles' early childhood. Kathleen was a minor, so her judgment, reasoning, impulsiveness, decision-making, even emotional regulation is impaired because she did not have a fully developed frontal lobe. This also affects her ability to cope appropriately with the demands of being a new mother, not to mention any postpartum effects she may have had.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
And given that Charles's father conned his mother, she may have some conscious or unconscious resentment that she projected onto Charles as a result. Her seemingly desperate and impulsive decision to marry William appears to be driven by more societal pressures on unwed mothers back then, not necessarily a marriage that was built on love.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
And Charles later learning that William is not his biological father will more likely than not affect his sense of self-worth, his identity, and his trust. Kathleen abandoning Charles to go drinking indicates she may have an alcohol use disorder, and I also wonder if she drank while she was pregnant.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
That could have caused a prenatal injury, and if so, would warrant further exploration to understand Charles's development. Then there's the layer of Kathleen and William's disinterest in being parents. The effects of emotionally absent parents on children is well documented. Those children tend to have more difficulty with trust, with self-esteem, and forming healthy relationships.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
And when you compound that with the abandonment and that William wasn't his biological father, that is pretty profound. Nurturance is critical for a child's development. And if their immediate caregivers aren't providing that or reinforcing a healthy development, that child is at risk of exhibiting poor emotional regulation later on.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
They have an increase in academic struggles, behavioral deficits, and developmental delays.