Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Mon, 17 Mar 2025
Tune in to explore the chilling rise of Charles Manson, from his troubled youth in reform school and prison to his desperate pursuit of power in the late 1960s. Using his dangerous charisma, Manson formed the notorious Manson Family, a cult of devoted followers he manipulated into obeying his every word. Murderous Minds is a Crime House Original. For more true crime content, follow us @crimehouse on Tiktok and Instagram. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What changes are coming to the podcast format?
we have an exciting update. Mind of a Serial Killer is now Killer Minds, expanding beyond serial killers to cover cult leaders, crimes of passion, spree killers, and more.
Nothing else is changing. Same expert analysis, same deep storytelling, now twice a week.
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday right here. No need to do anything, just stay tuned. Now enjoy the episode.
This is Crime House.
Chapter 2: Why were spiritual gurus popular in the 1960s and 70s?
We all want a little guidance in our lives. Whether it's a long-time mentor, a favorite teacher, or maybe even your weekly astrology chart, it's nice to have someone or something to rely on for advice when things get tough. That was especially true in the 1960s and 70s during the counterculture era. It was a chaotic time, dominated by the Vietnam War and the protests against it.
To find a sense of stability, a lot of people looked to spiritual gurus. With so much uncertainty in the world, it was reassuring to put your faith in someone who offered a sense of control over the chaos. But sometimes, that guidance turned out to be dangerous.
Chapter 3: Who was Charles Manson and what made him dangerous?
Many of those gurus were self-proclaimed, and oftentimes more interested in boosting their own fortunes than providing the support they promised. And when it came to these false prophets, none were more dangerous than Charles Manson. Charles promised his followers the world. As long as they did what he said, they'd be rewarded with eternal happiness beyond their wildest dreams.
His disciples were all too eager to obey. They followed his every order without question. even if it meant committing murder. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original.
Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out CrimeHouse The Show.
Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters.
And to enhance your killer mind's listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting CrimeHouse bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her analyze what drove them to commit their crimes as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.
This is the first of two episodes on Charles Manson. Some call him a cult leader. Some call him a serial killer. Some wonder if he can even be considered a killer at all. Because even though he went to prison for murder, Charles didn't deliver the fatal blow to any of his victims. His followers were his weapon of choice.
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Chapter 4: What was Charles Manson's early life like?
In today's episode, we'll dig into Charles' early life and the circumstances that led him to form the notorious Manson family cult. Next time, we'll follow Charles' desperate search for purpose, his descent into madness, and the tragic murders that still haunt society today. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?
From the moment he was born on November 12th, 1934, Charles Manson's life was driven by deception. His birth certificate listed Kathleen and William Manson as his parents. But for years, Charles had no idea that William wasn't his father. That honor most likely belonged to a con artist named Colonel Scott.
Colonel was Scott's given first name, but if people assumed he was in the Army, he didn't bother correcting them. That's how he caught Kathleen Maddox's attention at a dance club in Ironton, Ohio. He was 23. She was just 15. Kathleen was charmed by the older man she assumed was a military officer.
So when she discovered she was pregnant sometime in the spring of 1934, Kathleen had no reason to doubt the colonel when he said he was being called away on duty. He promised he'd be back as soon as he could, but she never heard from him again. After a few months, Kathleen finally realized she'd been duped, and now she needed to find someone to help raise her soon-to-be newborn baby.
That's when William Manson, who worked for a dry cleaning business, entered the picture. It's not really clear how the two of them met, but by the time Charles was born on November 12th, 1934, Kathleen and William were married. However, it doesn't seem either of them was all that interested in parenting. William wasn't around much, and neither was Kathleen.
Most days, she dropped Charles off with her mom so she could go out drinking with her brother.
Let's discuss the impact of Charles' early childhood. Kathleen was a minor, so her judgment, reasoning, impulsiveness, decision-making, even emotional regulation is impaired because she did not have a fully developed frontal lobe. This also affects her ability to cope appropriately with the demands of being a new mother, not to mention any postpartum effects she may have had.
And given that Charles's father conned his mother, she may have some conscious or unconscious resentment that she projected onto Charles as a result. Her seemingly desperate and impulsive decision to marry William appears to be driven by more societal pressures on unwed mothers back then, not necessarily a marriage that was built on love.
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Chapter 5: How did Charles Manson's upbringing shape his behavior?
And Charles later learning that William is not his biological father will more likely than not affect his sense of self-worth, his identity, and his trust. Kathleen abandoning Charles to go drinking indicates she may have an alcohol use disorder, and I also wonder if she drank while she was pregnant.
That could have caused a prenatal injury, and if so, would warrant further exploration to understand Charles's development. Then there's the layer of Kathleen and William's disinterest in being parents. The effects of emotionally absent parents on children is well documented. Those children tend to have more difficulty with trust, with self-esteem, and forming healthy relationships.
And when you compound that with the abandonment, and that William wasn't his biological father, that is pretty profound. Nurturance is critical for a child's development, and if their immediate caregivers aren't providing that or reinforcing a healthy development, that child is at risk of exhibiting poor emotional regulation later on.
They have an increase in academic struggles, behavioral deficits, and developmental delays.
So even if Charles' grandmother was a nurturing guardian, what kind of impact does it have on a child when they can tell their parents aren't that interested in raising them?
It's a really good question. Well, statistically, if a child has emotionally absent parents, but they have at least one constant loving and nurturing presence, like a grandmother, for example, they are more likely to be resilient. and overcome those statistical odds that I'd mentioned. And that's why there's so many adult children of emotionally absent parents who are high functioning.
They are breaking generational cycles and they have learned to have healthy attachments as adults. Of course, this all depends on a number of factors, such as when that nurturing presence entered their life, how long they remained in their life, how available they were to them, as well as other things.
But the fact remains that children will recognize that their parents are emotionally absent at some point, and there is a likelihood that there will be some resentment or anger.
With all this going on, it didn't take Kathleen and William long to realize they weren't right for each other. Within two and a half years, they were divorced. After that, Kathleen turned to petty crime to get by. And on August 1st, 1939, when Charles was almost five, she was arrested after an unsuccessful robbery.
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Chapter 6: What led Charles Manson to form the Manson Family cult?
By the time Kathleen finally decided to get her life on track in 1943, she couldn't control her son anymore. In 1947, when Charles was 12, she sent him to a reform school in Terre Haute, Indiana called the Jebeau School for Boys. Predictably, things didn't go well. Within 10 months, Charles had run away multiple times.
He alternated between going back to his family and living on his own, stealing to get by. When he inevitably got caught, he was sent to even stricter institutions. In 1949, at 13 years old, Charles found himself at a place called the Indiana Boys' School. And that's when his life became a living hell. It wasn't like things had been easy until this point.
But at the Indiana Boys School, things took a tragically dark turn. According to Charles, he was sexually assaulted by some of his fellow students. And to make a horrifying situation even worse, it was apparently encouraged by a staff member.
Oh, wow. There's a lot to unpack here. So until this point, Charles has had no real stability or security in his life, starting from a very young age, not to mention the many broken attachments he's had until this point.
His mother was seemingly grooming him into a career criminal and then once again abandoned him, this time to a reform school, because she could no longer control what she herself had actually helped to create. Now, at this boy's school, he continues to lack any control over his life. And once again, the adults that should be protecting him aren't, and instead are encouraging crimes against him.
And this, I believe, greatly impacted his ability to empathize with others, or rather his lack of ability to do that, and why he only forms attachments to others if he has something to gain from them. And those attachments will remain superficial. He is learning more versatile ways to be a criminal. And more importantly, this really shapes who he is to become.
His lack of control is going to be overcompensated by a need to always be in control of everyone and everything around him, which we will definitely be getting into in detail as you take us through his story.
Now, it is important to note that Charles Manson was a notorious liar. And as author Jeff Gwynn pointed out in The Life and Times of Charles Manson, it's possible he was not being entirely truthful about the situation. But based on his later actions, it does seem like Charles experienced some kind of sexual abuse at the Indiana boys' school.
So it wasn't surprising that Charles constantly tried to run away, to the tune of 18 times over the course of three years. And in February 1951, when Charles was 16, he got away from the Indiana boys' school for good. He and a couple other kids stole a car and decided to take it for a multi-state joyride, which got him in trouble with the federal authorities.
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Chapter 7: How did prison influence Charles Manson's methods of control?
His biological father was arguably very cunning, charming, and manipulative, and was actually using stolen valor to con Charles' mother, Kathleen. Kathleen also has a criminal history, one that took her from her son's life for a number of years.
In a family, history of criminality is important for us to look at because it shows there could be a genetic component for mental illness or psychopathy, but also it gives insight into learned behaviors. People who are abusive and manipulative are taught those behaviors, and Charles clearly had that influence and exposure with his mother and the institutions that he had been housed in.
Charles learned how to mirror others and what they want in order to get results, making it more likely than not that his reformation is not genuine. Now, that's not to say that there isn't a possibility for juveniles to be successfully reformed, because that can certainly be the case. But given what I just outlined with Charles, his, quote, model behavior definitely was a con in and of itself.
It was another way to remain in control of how others see him and how quickly he can get released.
Whether or not Charles' improved behavior was for real, he actually kept it up after his release. Now 19 years old, Charles moved to McMecan, West Virginia, bouncing between his family there. Charles was well-behaved. He got a job mucking out stables at a horse track and even met a girl, Rosalie Willis. They quickly started going steady, and on January 13, 1955, they got married.
Charles and Rosalie settled into a comfortable life together. He made a few friends and even learned guitar. It wasn't long before Rosalie was expecting their first child. But adding to their family was expensive, and Charles was struggling to make ends meet. So he turned to what he did best — stealing. He mostly stole cars and sold them in other states.
But the extra money wasn't enough to give Charles the life he wanted. By the summer of 1955, he'd had enough of West Virginia. He wanted to go west to California. His mother Kathleen had moved there, and Charles figured he and Rosalie could stay with her. So he stole another car, and they headed to Los Angeles to move in with Kathleen.
Charles kept driving the vehicle around for months after their arrival. But in September 1955, a cop ran his plate and realized it was stolen. Charles was terrified of being locked up. The second he got the chance, he and Rosalie skipped town. They ended up in Indianapolis, where Rosalie gave birth to Charles Manson Jr. on April 10, 1956.
But the new parents didn't have much time to enjoy their new baby. Just four days later, the cops caught up to them, and Charles was dragged back to California. And this time, there was no escaping. In April 1956, 21-year-old Charles Manson was arrested after trying to evade car theft charges.
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Chapter 8: Why didn't Charles Manson learn from his past mistakes?
Once again, he had the opportunity to take his life in any direction. But he couldn't seem to hold down a job. He was too focused on trying to become a pimp. It didn't go well. After his release, he stayed in L.A. and managed to recruit a couple young women. But he didn't follow his prison mentor's advice because he let them stay in touch with their families.
Almost immediately, one of the women's fathers complained about Charles to the police. Charles managed to talk his way out of it, and it wasn't long before he found himself in more hot water. On May 1, 1959, 24-year-old Charles got caught after he stole a U.S. Treasury check from a mailbox and tried to cash it.
He was only able to avoid jail time because one of his few remaining sex workers pretended to be pregnant with his child. And they convinced Charles' parole officer to intervene. Instead, he got a 10-year suspended sentence that let him remain a free man. But in what had now become a predictable pattern, Charles didn't use the opportunity to better his life.
Instead, he dug in further, continuing to work as a pimp and stealing cars. However, Charles wasn't exactly a criminal mastermind. It didn't take long for the authorities to catch on to him, and he was arrested barely a year after being released from Terminal Island. His suspended sentence was revoked, and he was sent to a prison off the coast of Washington state to serve out the rest of his time.
Thirteen months after his release from Terminal Island, 25-year-old Charles was arrested again.
Let's discuss why Charles does not seem to learn from past mistakes. And there's a number of possibilities for this. But since Charles has been engaging in theft at a young age, it's possible that part of this is that he struggles with an impulse control disorder like kleptomania.
That could be a condition on its own, but more often it is a symptom of something else, such as antisocial personality disorder. Individuals who have antisocial personality disorder or have such a severe case of it that it rises to psychopathy have a need for stimulation as well as impulse control deficits and they are not deterred by consequences.
He is also around an age where should he have an undiagnosed severe mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar, those symptoms would begin to become more prominent. But there is also a learned pattern of criminality here from a young age that I touched on earlier.
Not only has he learned that stealing cars and trafficking women is fast and easy money, but he's also been in and out of institutions since he was young, and that can create a criminal cycle. Most individuals who are in and out of institutions suffer serious setbacks financially and in meeting their basic needs when they're released.
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