Vanessa Richardson
Appearances
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
we have an exciting update. Mind of a Serial Killer is now Killer Minds, expanding beyond serial killers to cover cult leaders, crimes of passion, spree killers, and more.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Well, it seems like Charles dealt with the disappointment by refocusing on his Helter Skelter prophecy. As the summer of 1969 began, the 34-year-old pushed his family even harder to prepare for the upcoming apocalypse. Their creepy crawling expeditions turned to outright thievery, and his LSD-fueled sermons focused primarily on death.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Before long, Charles started asking his followers if they'd die for him. They assured him they would. But as the days crept by with no sign of a society-ending race war, the family started to get antsy. Charles knew he had to do something. If the apocalypse didn't happen, then his followers might lose their faith in him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
That's when Charles realized, if the apocalypse wasn't going to happen on its own, maybe he needed to start it himself.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
As the summer of 1969 began, 34-year-old Charles Manson decided he wanted to kickstart the helter-skelter apocalypse himself. Inspired by a track from the Beatles' White Album, he was certain that an impending race war would drive the world into chaos. But so far, it had failed to materialize, and Charles was going to do something about it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Could this desire of his to fulfill a prophecy like that himself be an indication that he never really believed in it in the first place?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He'd promised his followers that they'd escape to an underground city of gold in the middle of Death Valley. But if they were going to survive in the desert long enough to find the city, they needed money, and their drug-dealing operation wasn't cutting it. To get the funds they needed, they'd have to steal it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
After cycling through a few options, Charles landed on Gary Hinman, a music teacher and drug dealer he'd met when the family first moved to LA. Charles believed Gary was flush with cash. He had a couple of cars, and Charles knew he had a big vacation to Japan coming up. Plus, one of Charles' best friends, a guy named Bobby Beausoleil, had it out for Gary.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He apparently sold Bobby a bad batch of a hallucinogen called mescaline, and Bobby was happy to help Charles shake Gary down. On the night of July 25th, 1969, Bobby and three of Charles' most loyal followers went over to Gary's house.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
The group included Charles' first recruit, Mary Brunner, the first male family member, Bruce Davis, and Susan Atkins, who joined the family in that first summer in the Bay Area. When they showed up at Gary's door, he didn't suspect a thing. He invited them right in. But Bobby didn't waste any time. He demanded Gary pay him back for the bad drugs.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Gary swore he didn't have any money to give them, and that made Bobby angry. But even after he beat Gary to a pulp, he swore he didn't have the kind of money they were after. When Charles found out, he told the group to keep working on Gary until he gave everything up. For almost three days, Bobby Beausoleil beat Gary within an inch of his life. Eventually, Charles told Bobby to kill him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out CrimeHouse The Show. Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
However Charles felt at that moment, by killing Gary, he realized they had an opportunity to get more than money out of the situation. It was the perfect moment to begin helter-skelter. Remember, Charles was convinced the apocalypse would start with a massive race war. After Gary Hinman was dead, he had Bobby draw a paw print on the wall with Gary's blood, along with the words, Political Piggy.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
It was the symbol of the Black Panthers. Charles hoped it would seem like the Black Panthers viciously murdered an innocent white man, and then the uprising would start. Gary's body was discovered three days later on July 31st. But the race war didn't materialize. Charles' plan was falling apart. A few days later, Bobby was pulled over while driving Gary Hinman's stolen car.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
The police searched it and found a bloody knife in the wheel well. And Bobby matched a fingerprint they'd pulled from the crime scene. He tried to make some excuses, but the cops weren't buying it. Bobby was arrested and charged with murder. When Charles found out, he knew time was of the essence.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Bobby wasn't a patient guy, and if Charles couldn't get him out of trouble, there was a good chance he would talk. To get the heat off of Bobby, Charles decided they would do some copycat killings to make it seem like the real killer was still out there. And Charles had the perfect target in mind. Terry Melcher's old house on Cielo Drive.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Now, there's some disagreement over why Charles chose Cielo Drive as the target. Some people think it was a way to get back at Terry Melcher for refusing to give him a record deal. But others have pointed out that Charles likely knew Terry wasn't living there by that point. So maybe he chose it just because it was a house he knew.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
It was secure, hidden behind a gate, so there was little chance of getting caught in the act or anyone escaping. Either way, whoever was in that house would have a lot of money for them to take to Death Valley. For Charles, that was as good of a reason as any. On August 9, 1969, Charles put a follower named Tex Watson in charge of the operation.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He was joined by Susan Atkins, who'd been a part of the Gary Hinman murder, along with Patricia Krenwinkel and Linda Kasabian. All were fiercely loyal to Charles, and willing to kill in his name.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
The details from the murders at Cielo Drive are well-documented, so there's no need to go over all the grisly details here. For those who are interested in more specifics, check out The Life and Times of Charles Manson by Jeff Gwynn. But just like the Gary Hinman murder, the crimes at Cielo Drive were violent and bloody, and by the end of it, five innocent people were dead.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Stephen Parent, and most famously, the house's current resident, actress Sharon Tate, who was pregnant. Even though Charles didn't get any money out of it, he did get something else he wanted. Publicity. After the bodies were discovered the next morning, it was all over the news. The sheer violence of it was staggering.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
And there was the celebrity aspect. Along with being a famous actress, Sharon Tate was married to the director, Roman Polanski. But there was one thing missing. Even though they left the Black Panther symbol, nobody picked up on the attempt to link the murders to the Black Panthers, which meant Bobby Beausoleil would stay in jail and the race war wouldn't start.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Charles decided they needed to try again, immediately. He sent the group out again the following night, and this time, Charles went with them. In order to trigger his race war, Charles wanted to keep going after wealthy white people, so he decided to head to the upper-middle class neighborhood of Los Feliz. Charles had partied at a house there a few times, so that's where the group went.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
When they got there, Charles noticed the place next door. It was pretty nice, and Charles spotted an older man sleeping inside on his couch. His name was Lino LaBianca. Charles had his followers break in. Then they killed Lino and his wife, Rosemary, in the same violent fashion as their other victims.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
After the bodies were discovered, the murders were linked to the victims at Cielo Drive, but the attempted connection to the Black Panthers went unnoticed once again. There was no denying it. Charles' plan was a failure, and eight innocent people had paid for it with their lives. But Charles didn't spin it that way to the family. He used all the press coverage as proof that it was a success.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
The true apocalypse might not happen immediately, but the process had begun. That meant it was time to get out of town. The family packed their things, and in early September, he and over two dozen followers drove north to Barker Ranch out in Death Valley. To keep the Helter Skelter story alive, Charles sent his followers out into the desert.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Their job was to go on foot to look for the entrance to the underground city of gold. For the time being, the family was still devoted to Charles, though it was split between true believers and those who were just too tired from searching the desert to question him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Does it seem like Charles' followers felt like they had no other choice? Or was there some glimmer of hope that his prophecy could still be true?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
This is the second of two episodes on Charles Manson. Some call him a cult leader, some call him a serial killer. Some wonder if he can even be considered a killer at all, because even though he went to prison for murder, Charles didn't deliver the fatal blow to any of his victims. His followers were his weapon of choice.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Well, naturally, the City of Gold was nowhere to be found. And surviving in the middle of the desert was a lot harder than scrounging for food around the city. Many of his followers remained fiercely loyal, but Charles finally started to lose his grip on some of them. People started slipping away in the middle of the night, risking the difficult walk into the nearest town in order to escape.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
And even though the desert was isolated, it wasn't empty. Locals took notice of the strange things going on at the family's new ranch. Eventually, the police started poking around and realized that Charles and his followers were driving stolen cars. On October 10th, 1969, the authorities raided the Manson family's ranch and took most of them into custody. Charles wasn't home at the time.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He was down in LA trying to round up some food. But when he came back to Death Valley a couple days later, he was arrested too. Charles had gotten out of scrapes with the law before, but there was no talking his way out of this one. Some of the defectors were eager to tell the police about the murders, and that Charles had ordered them to do it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
After some questioning, the police realized the leather cord Charles used as a belt had belonged to Lino LaBianca. The pieces fell into place from there. On December 9th, 1969, he was charged with murder in what was being referred to as the Tate and LaBianca killings. All four of the family members involved in the crimes were charged as well. Charles finally had what he'd always wanted. Fame.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday right here. No need to do anything, just stay tuned. Now enjoy the episode.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Stories about him were plastered over every newspaper. Any time he entered a courtroom, hordes of onlookers were there to see him. The more people learned about Charles, the more fascinated they became. It just seemed inconceivable that such a diminutive, unassuming guy could be capable of such atrocities. Not only that, he somehow got other people to do them for him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
The question was, who would be punished for it? In December 1969, Charles Manson and his followers were charged with murder. The trial began a little over six months later in June 1970. The whole thing was a huge spectacle, not just for the murders, but for the people accused of committing them. People couldn't understand what made Charles so special that his followers would kill for him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Last time, we went through Charles' early life and the road that led him to form the notorious Manson family cult. Today, we'll follow Charles' obsession with fame, his descent into madness, and the tragic murders that still haunt society today. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
It seemed like everyone was paying attention to the Manson trial. The trial was so captivating, it even caught the attention of President Richard Nixon. He was so invested, he made comments about it during a speech on August 3, 1970.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Oh yeah, no doubt. It certainly seemed like everyone wanted to weigh in on the Manson trial. which was why the judge had the jury sequestered, so they wouldn't be influenced by any more media coverage or presidential speeches. There was a lot to consider, especially given the nature of the charges against Charles.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Along with conspiracy to commit murder, he was charged with the murders themselves, which was hard to prove when he didn't lay a hand on any of the victims. And his followers were definitely willing to take the fall for him. In fact, three of them weren't allowed to testify for that very reason. Their lawyers likely didn't want them to take all the blame while Charles got away scot-free.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
In the end, the jury didn't either. When they reached their verdict on January 25th, 1971, Charles was found guilty, along with the three followers who'd committed the murders on his behalf. But Charles wasn't ready to give up, not by a long shot. There was still a lot at stake. The trial was now in the penalty phase, which meant guilt and innocence were no longer in question.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
It was time to determine punishment. And the defendants were facing the death penalty. Charles and his followers were all free to plead their cases for a lesser sentence. It was a pivotal moment, the last chance for the Manson family to turn on their leader. If they argued that he'd brainwashed them or made them do it, they might be able to save their lives.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Instead, they did exactly what Charles wanted, and chose to sacrifice themselves. And it wasn't just Charles' co-defendants speaking up for him, either. At least eight members of the Manson family who weren't involved in the murders came to his defense. They all claimed he had nothing to do with the murders.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
By the time Charles Manson was 32, he'd spent half his life in a correctional facility, from abusive reform schools to federal prisons. He used that time to become an expert manipulator, using psychological techniques, religion, and his natural charisma to bend people to his will.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
And in the end, their devotion didn't really matter. The jury had already determined that Charles was guilty, and nothing they heard from Charles' followers changed their minds. When they were sent to deliberate on March 26, 1971, it only took them a few hours to come to a decision. All the defendants were sentenced to death. Even with Charles behind bars, the world didn't forget about him.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He received hundreds of letters a day. They contained all sorts of messages. Admiration and love, but also death threats. For someone on death row, that wasn't exactly something to worry about. But about a year later, on February 18, 1972, the state of California abolished the death penalty, and Charles' situation suddenly changed.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He and his followers' sentences were all reduced to life in prison. Not only that, under California law, he would be granted a parole hearing in seven years, which meant he had a chance of becoming a free man again, if he could survive that long. Charles' fellow inmates didn't like how much attention he got.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He was moved around different facilities for his own safety, eventually ending up at the notorious San Quentin Prison, north of San Francisco. He spent a lot of time in isolation, away from the general population. But just because Charles was out of sight didn't mean he was out of mind.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
In 1974, the lead prosecutor on his case, Vincent Bugliosi, published a book about Charles called Helter Skelter. It was a massive hit, and so was the TV miniseries it inspired. All of a sudden, Charles wasn't just a notorious criminal. He was a bona fide celebrity. Just what he wants.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
After being released from prison in March 1967, Charles headed for the San Francisco Bay Area, where he started building the cult known as the Manson family. Surrounded by the love and devotion of his followers, he was showered with the attention he'd always wanted. But that wasn't enough for Charles.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Whatever it was that made people so interested in Charles, he was firmly in the zeitgeist, and has remained there ever since. And he also spent the rest of his life in prison. He knew just as well as anyone that there was no chance he'd be released on parole. It's been a half century since the Manson family murders,
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Even though Charles has been dead since 2017, he continues to have a powerful grip on our imaginations. From TV shows like Mindhunter, or movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, people can't help but be fascinated by him, or try to understand the crimes he committed. But that's easier said than done. The Manson murders were violent, random, and indescribably tragic.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Innocent people lost their lives because of his so-called prophecy, which was nothing more than the ravings of a madman. A couple months after Charles' trial ended in the 1970s, John Lennon was asked for his thoughts on the Manson murders, especially since they were inspired by his song Helter Skelter. Lennon was baffled by the whole thing,
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He didn't understand why Charles thought the song predicted some kind of apocalyptic race war. In fact, he didn't understand how Charles got anything from it at all. According to Lennon, the lyrics of Helter Skelter were totally meaningless. And in the end, maybe Charles Manson was too. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He had big dreams of becoming a famous musician, and that wasn't going to happen in the Bay, so in November 1967, he and a handful of followers bought an old bus and drove it down to LA.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristan Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by PAVE Studios.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertsovsky, Sarah Camp, and Sheila Patterson. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was The Life and Times of Charles Manson by Jeff Gwynn. Thank you for listening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Well, unfortunately for Charles, no amount of self-belief could make up for his lack of musical talent. Even with the backing of his friend, Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson, nobody was willing to give Charles a record deal, including an influential producer named Terry Melcher. His move to L.A. wasn't a total bust, though.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Within a year of getting to L.A., the family had grown to about three dozen people. To keep the group together, Charles moved them to an old Western movie set outside the city called Spahn Ranch in the fall of 1968. The days were filled with ranch working in the morning, LSD trips in the afternoon, and group sex at night. But it wasn't all fun and games.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Charles used these activities to remind everyone that he was their undisputed leader, selecting work assignments, overseeing the drug trips, and choosing who slept with who. But throughout it all, he continued to preach the same New Age philosophy that he'd developed in San Francisco. And as winter approached, Charles added something new into the mix.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Loyalty is a powerful thing. The willingness to stick by someone's side through thick and thin creates a deep sense of trust. You know someone will be there for you, no matter what comes your way. It's an unbreakable bond. And in the case of Charles Manson, he used that bond to deadly effect. Charles' followers were so loyal, they obeyed his every order without question.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He'd recently become obsessed with The Beatles' latest record, known as The White Album. He was fixated on one track in particular, Helter Skelter. Charles was convinced the song foretold an apocalyptic revolution triggered by a massive race war. Of course, he had a plan to keep his family safe from the violence.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
They would move to Death Valley, a stretch of unforgiving terrain in California's Mojave Desert. There, he believed they'd find shelter in an underground city of gold, outside of time and space. And by early 1969, there were signs that his prophecy would actually come true. Violent protests erupted in LA and all around the country, fueled by racial tensions and the Vietnam War.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Charles told the family that the apocalypse would be upon them by the summer.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Dr. Engels, how much of this can be chalked up to the massive amounts of drugs they were taking? Can LSD affect our psychology so much that it leaves us susceptible to delusions like this?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Whether or not Charles actually believed any of this, he was certainly acting like it. To prepare for Helter Skelter, he taught the family how to fight with knives. He also took them out on what he called creepy crawling expeditions, where they practiced breaking into people's homes without getting caught. He even found a place for them to stay in Death Valley for when the apocalypse started.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
It was an isolated property in the middle of the Mojave Desert known as Barker Ranch. The place was completely off the grid. Charles sold it to his followers as the ultimate spot to ride out the apocalypse while they found the fabled underground city.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Conveniently, it would also make them completely reliant on him with nowhere else to go, especially if they started to have second thoughts about their plan. Or maybe it's not so convenient. But Charles seemed to be all in. Down in LA, he got a cheap dune buggy and told his followers to get it ready for more rugged terrain.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
He made them gather extra supplies and even taught them desert survival techniques. However, all of this cost money. Money Charles and the Manson family didn't have. Most of the time, they got by with panhandling around L.A. and scavenging around grocery stores. But if Charles' plan was going to work, they needed a lot more. So he turned to a more reliable income stream. Drug dealing.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
To do this, Charles connected with a biker gang called the Straight Satans. They were happy to help him get the drugs he wanted, as long as they could come to the ranch and enjoy them. Before long, the Straight Satans were a constant presence at Spahn Ranch, and so were their drugs. But the bikers used substances more potent than marijuana and LSD.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
They especially liked amphetamines, and they gladly shared them with the family. Charles didn't seem happy about it. These new drugs made his followers moody and tense, harder to control. But with Helter Skelter on its way, he was willing to put up with it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
They left their families, took all kinds of drugs, had sex with whoever he said, and of course, committed murder. But that wasn't all Charles asked of them. In the end, he wanted them to take the blame for what he asked them to do, even if it meant losing their own lives. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
However Charles felt about what was going on at Spahn Ranch, it's possible he was starting to doubt his prophecy, because even with an apocalyptic race war to worry about, he was still trying to get himself a record deal. Charles had stayed in touch with Terry Melcher, the producer who was friends with the Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Terry came by Spahn Ranch sometimes, mostly to fool around with some of the women. Charles was all too happy to oblige him, as long as Terry gave his music another chance. And in March of 1969, Terry finally agreed to come over and listen to some of his songs. Charles was certain this would be his big break. But the day of Terry's visit to Spahn Ranch arrived, and he never showed up.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Charles was furious. This was supposed to be his moment, and Terry had blown him off. On March 23rd, he headed to Terry's house to give him a piece of his mind. The house was atop Cielo Drive, a winding road in LA's Benedict Canyon. But when Charles got there, Terry wasn't home, because he'd moved out months earlier.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
Eventually, Charles did get a hold of Terry, and the producer promised to come back out to Spahn Ranch on May 18th. This time, he showed up, but it was clear he wasn't interested in signing Charles to a deal, and nobody else was either. There would be no music career for Charles. His dream was officially dead.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt. 2
So when dealing with self-centered people or narcissists, are they ever capable of learning from a reality check like this? Or do they tend to double down and only get worse?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Well, Oscar definitely stood his ground. He hired a lawyer and appealed the decision in the court of arbitration for sport, and he won. Later that summer in 2008, Oscar took the competition back to the track, specifically the Beijing Paralympics in China, There, he broke a world record for his class, completing the 400-meter race in 47.49 seconds.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
He also won gold in the 100-meter and 200-meter dashes. And after this series of wins, Oscar felt unstoppable. He wanted to be challenged even further. The words of his late mother, Sheila, rang through his head, quote, "'The real loser is never the person who crosses the finish line last. The real loser is the person who sits on the side, the person who doesn't even try to compete.'"
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Which is why Oscar decided it was time to start training for the regular Olympics. And in 2012, he finally earned a spot on the South African team. That summer, he'd be heading to the London Games as the first ever double amputee runner to compete. But that wasn't the only monumental thing coming Oscar's way.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
When the first Olympic Games were held in 776 BCE, they were intended for the most vigorous athletes in Greece. Participants were hailed as heroes, living gods. But in 2012, one man changed the definition of what it meant to be an Olympic athlete. His name was Oscar Pistorius.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
That year, he'd also meet someone very important, someone most people thought he'd spend forever with. But in this case, forever would only last a couple of months before Oscar's entire world came to a screeching halt. On August 4th, 2012, Oscar Pistorius took to the starting blocks of the London Olympic Games.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
His first event was a preliminary heat in the 400-meter race against five other athletes. As the pistol was fired, the Blade Runner took off with the rigor and stamina he was known for. The crowds in London cheered Oscar's name so loud you would have thought he was competing for the home team. And he made many of those onlookers, including his nation of South Africa, proud.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
That day, he finished second, advancing to the semifinals. But the following afternoon, Oscar wasn't on top of his game. He came in last, missing out on a spot in the finals. Even though Oscar didn't win a medal, he arguably won something more valuable at those London games — the admiration of millions of people. Overnight, Oscar became a global icon.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
He was flooded with requests for interviews and television appearances. Brands like Nike and Oakley signed him to be the face of their new campaigns. Now, Oscar Pistorius was enjoying a $2 million a year payday. That, partnered with Oscar's good looks and sculpted physique, suddenly made him one of the most desirable bachelors on the planet. And Oscar knew it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Regardless of the repercussions, Oscar was basking in the limelight. Fancy parties, award shows, and galas now filled his social calendar. And when it came to dating, Oscar had his pick of the litter. Actresses, models, singers, you name it. However, there was one woman that really caught Oscar's attention. 29-year-old reality TV star and model Reva Steenkamp.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Oscar met Riva at a car show in November of 2012, shortly after returning from the London Olympics. They both had mutual friends who thought they'd be a good match. They got to talking, and Oscar asked Riva to be his date to an awards ceremony later that evening. From that day on, they were inseparable. Like Oscar, Riva Steenkamp was born and raised in South Africa.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Growing up, she had dreams of becoming a lawyer and set her sights on making that a reality. Around the age of 15, though, Riva was scouted by an agent who told her she had a lot of potential for a successful modeling career. Riva took it as a golden opportunity. Now she could make money modeling and put herself through law school. Riva did just that.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
After graduating from high school, she began her studies in law at Nelson Mandela University. She even knew what her focus would be, advocacy for women who were suffering from domestic violence and abuse, an issue that was rampant in South Africa. Between 2011 and 2012, the country had the highest occurrence of sexual assaults worldwide, according to the U.S. State Department.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And to enhance your Killer Minds listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting Crime House bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
This issue was also personal to Riva. She herself had reportedly struggled with an abusive partnership during her college years. But while in her last year of law school, a bad accident temporarily altered the course of Riva's life. She was thrown from a horse and crushed two of her vertebrae. For six weeks, Riva was hospitalized, uncertain whether she would ever be able to walk again.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
While Reva eventually made a full recovery, it changed her perspective on life. It taught her that life was worth fighting for, but it was also too short not to do what truly makes you happy. So while Reva still graduated from law school at the top of her class, she also realized she wanted to make modeling a priority, at least for the time being.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
This accident was almost certainly something Reva and Oscar bonded over. you
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Even before meeting Oscar, Reva knew her good looks wouldn't carry her over the finish line. She needed something to fall back on, something that wasn't reality TV appearances and KFC commercials, but instead skills she could enact later in life.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So by the time she and Oscar were introduced in November 2012, she was reportedly planning to take the bar, get back into law, and use the platform she'd built as a way to get back into advocacy. And seemingly, Oscar was supportive of that. In fact, going into January of 2013, the couple appeared pretty happy together.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
They'd only been dating a few months, but it looked like they were planning for a future with one another. On January 26th, they were spotted out together at a party, both dressed in white, dancing the night away. Friends who were there with them said they looked madly in love. Many of them thought they were headed towards marriage.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Just a few days later, the couple had dinner with some of their closest friends, TV personality Jen Su and her husband, Del Levin. And they also said, based on intimate conversations they had with the couple, that things were going extremely well.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And while Reva wasn't living with Oscar yet, they were spending plenty of nights together at his new house in Pretoria, about 45 minutes outside of Johannesburg. The problem was, according to Jen and Del, Oscar kept saying that he really didn't feel safe there. It may have started back in 2005, when Oscar's last home in Pretoria was broken into.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Or it could have started even earlier than that, perhaps dating back to childhood. As long as Oscar could remember, he was always told to look over his shoulder, especially being from a middle-class family in Johannesburg, where most of the population made less than $65 a month in the 90s.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And in a nation where the violent crime rate was one of the highest in the world, well, Oscar's worries weren't completely unmerited. It wasn't unheard of for families in Johannesburg to own guns to protect themselves. And that's what Oscar's father, Hank, always taught him and his siblings, that you could never be too careful and that you could never rely on the local police to do the protecting.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
So it was sort of ingrained in Oscar to always have his head on a swivel. But ever since Oscar's rapid rise to fame, he'd been especially on edge, at least according to some of his old friends. They stated that Oscar always made sure to turn on his alarm system before bed. Oscar even told one friend that he started sleeping with a 9mm pistol next to his bed.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
This is the first of two episodes about former track star Oscar Pistorius. In 2012, Oscar became the first double-leg amputee runner to compete in the Olympics. With the help of his charming good looks, Oscar quickly rose to fame. only to swiftly fall from grace when his girlfriend, Riva Steenkamp, was shot dead in his own home, and Oscar had fired the gun.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And while he was happy that his new home had more security features than the last, like electrified gates and its own security guards, Oscar still claimed there was a sense of unease, and maybe that was justified. The area had still fallen victim to two burglaries over the last several years, and while that was exceptionally low for the area, it was still notable to Oscar.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Plus, according to Oscar, Riva had been receiving hate mail for her relationship with the athlete as of late, something that only added more fuel to Oscar's paranoia.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Is it unusual for someone who's a new celebrity to feel a sense of fear or paranoia now that they're a public figure? What can paranoia like this do to someone, and how might it eat away at them over time?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Even if Oscar didn't feel safe in his own home, it seems like Reva did. On February 10th, 2013, Reva posted a photo on Instagram with the caption, I woke up in a happy, safe home this morning. Not everyone did. Speak out against the rape of individuals in SA. End quote.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
The message was in dedication to a 17-year-old girl named Aneen Boyson who had been sexually assaulted and killed outside of Cape Town. So advocacy was definitely top of mind for Riva that week, especially as she polished off a speech regarding the cause, one she was planning to deliver to students of a local high school on Friday the 15th.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
She even went to her publicist's office on the afternoon of February 13th to practice it out loud. Riva passionately detailed her life growing up on a farm, how they had little money, and how that led to low self-esteem, which then drove her to stay in an abusive partnership longer than she should have. But that beautifully written speech would never be heard by anyone else.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Because in less than 24 hours, Reva Steenkamp would be dead.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
In today's episode, we'll explore the challenges Oscar overcame in his early years to land a spot in the 2012 Olympic Games. Then we'll follow his rise to fame and the murder that changed Oscar's legacy forever.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Thank you. Thank you.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Next time, we'll dig deeper into the secret life of Oscar Pistorius. We'll dig into his claims that Riva's death was an accident, and we'll look closer at Oscar's past to see if the demons he battled might have played a role. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer? Fame changes people. It alters the way they think, the way they act.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Thank you. Thank you.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
It leaves some people feeling invincible, and others more vulnerable. And it almost always comes with a price. But fame wasn't written in the stars for Oscar Pistorius. Quite the opposite, actually. He was an underdog from birth. Oscar came into the world on November 22nd, 1986, in the city of Johannesburg, South Africa.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
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Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertsovsky, Sarah Kamp, Sheila Patterson, and Carrie Murphy. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was... Chase Your Shadow, The Trials of Oscar Pistorius by John Carlin. Thank you for listening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
He was born with a congenital defect, one that left him without his fibula bones in the bottom half of his legs. So, at 11 months old, Oscar's parents, Hank and Sheila, had to make a heart-wrenching decision about their son's future, and they believed it would be best for Oscar if they had both of his legs amputated from the calf down.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
As difficult as that process must have been, Hank and Sheila knew this was the best way for Oscar to live a normal life. And they were right. By his second birthday, Oscar was learning how to walk with prosthetic legs.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
While Oscar didn't walk away with a medal, he was seen as a modern icon for being the first double-leg amputee runner to compete in the Olympics. He gave hope to those who never dared to dream. But behind his unwavering ambition and athletic prowess, Oscar Pistorius harbored a lot of darkness.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Would kids at that age notice their differences from other kids? Are there any long-lasting psychological repercussions to something like that?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Well, regardless of whether Oscar noticed his differences that young, he never let them stand in his way. And that mostly came at the encouragement of his mother, Sheila. She made sure Oscar was treated exactly like his two other siblings, insisting there was no such thing as disability in their house.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
As she told the kids each morning, quote, "'Carl, you put on your shoes, and Oscar, you go put on your legs.'" It was that sort of thing that made Oscar push himself beyond his limits, and soon he wasn't just exceeding expectations around the home, he was changing the minds of his peers, too.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
By his teens, Oscar had transitioned to a pair of lighter prosthetics, and for the first time in his life, sports became a possibility. Always eager to outperform, Oscar joined the water polo team and the rugby team, and he gained a newfound confidence because of it. But this new high Oscar was riding? Well, it was about to be usurped by a series of unexpected events.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
By 2002, when Oscar was 15, things had already been challenging for the Pistorius family. Sheila and Hank had divorced a few years prior, forcing the three kids and Sheila into a smaller house. In his father's absence, Oscar distracted himself with sports, but things at home took a turn for the worse when Sheila was diagnosed with hepatitis.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
And when a tragic accident took his girlfriend's life, many of those secrets rose to the surface, leaving people to wonder if it was really an accident or murder. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Doctors tried to treat her condition, but she reacted adversely to the medication, and doctors later found they had misdiagnosed her hepatitis altogether. By that point, though, it was too late. The wrong medication had done too much damage. Only weeks after first falling ill, Sheila passed away on March 6th, 2002. Oscar seemed to take it the hardest.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
To drown out the pain, Oscar buried himself deeper in sports, but he pushed himself a little too far. The following year, in 2003, Oscar injured his knee while playing rugby, which meant Oscar's one escape had been taken from him. And suddenly, he felt as though he was left with nothing.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Well, ultimately, Oscar realized his injury was actually a blessing in disguise. During his recovery, Oscar found himself in the hands of the same doctors who'd helped him 16 years earlier when he first got his amputation surgery. Only this time, during his physical therapy, one of them proposed something to Oscar, something that would change his life as he knew it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
They suggested he take up running to get his knee back into fighting shape. Oscar accepted the challenge, and just a few weeks later, by the end of January 2004, the 17-year-old ran his first 100-meter race. With his father Hank watching from the stands, Oscar smoked his opponents.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Not only did he win the race, he broke a record, finishing in 11.72 seconds, faster than any double amputee had before. Now, instead of returning to the rugby team, Oscar took up running full-time. There was just one problem — his prosthetic legs. They were wooden, primitive, maybe okay for high school sports, but Oscar was now in the big leagues.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
Plus, he was starting to train for the Paralympic Games eight months later. So that same year, in 2004, Oscar was referred to an innovative company in Iceland. There, they designed custom prosthetics for the 17-year-old Oscar, state-of-the-art carbon fiber blades known as cheetahs. And when he stepped onto the track in Greece that September, he caught everyone's eye.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
From that day on, Oscar Pistorius was known as the Blade Runner. Not only did Oscar Pistorius win the gold medal for the 200-meter event in the Paralympic Games in 2004, he took the bronze home in the 100-meter race as well, and he continued competing in different races over the next several years. Meanwhile, Oscar juggled school alongside it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
In 2006, when he was 19, he enrolled at the University of Pretoria, outside of Johannesburg, South Africa, to study business management. But that didn't last long. Eventually, Oscar put his studies aside to compete in non-disabled races as well.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
In 2007, Oscar finished second in a 400-meter race in Rome, Italy, and the International Association of Athletics Foundation, a governing body that regulates track and field globally, took notice of Oscar. Though not in a good way. They asked Oscar to compete in a series of rigorous tests alongside six other non-disabled athletes at the German Sport University in Cologne, Germany. The objective?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
To determine whether Oscar's blades gave him an unfair advantage over his non-disabled opponents. The tests included everything from running on an outdoor and an indoor track, to riding on a stationary bike, to measuring his blood and scanning his body for specific data points.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
In the end, they said Oscar's prosthetics allowed him to expend less energy than his competitors, therefore allowing him to maintain his speed longer and more consistently, meaning they believed Oscar did have an unfair advantage and therefore was no longer allowed to compete in non-disabled competitions. But Oscar refused to accept that.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Oscar Pistorius Pt. 1
This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out CrimeHouse The Show.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
we have an exciting update. Mind of a Serial Killer is now Killer Minds, expanding beyond serial killers to cover cult leaders, crimes of passion, spree killers, and more.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Whether or not Charles' improved behavior was for real, he actually kept it up after his release. Now 19 years old, Charles moved to McMecan, West Virginia, bouncing between his family there. Charles was well-behaved. He got a job mucking out stables at a horse track and even met a girl, Rosalie Willis. They quickly started going steady, and on January 13, 1955, they got married.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles and Rosalie settled into a comfortable life together. He made a few friends and even learned guitar. It wasn't long before Rosalie was expecting their first child. But adding to their family was expensive, and Charles was struggling to make ends meet. So he turned to what he did best — stealing. He mostly stole cars and sold them in other states.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But the extra money wasn't enough to give Charles the life he wanted. By the summer of 1955, he'd had enough of West Virginia. He wanted to go west to California. His mother Kathleen had moved there, and Charles figured he and Rosalie could stay with her. So he stole another car, and they headed to Los Angeles to move in with Kathleen.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles kept driving the vehicle around for months after their arrival. But in September 1955, a cop ran his plate and realized it was stolen. Charles was terrified of being locked up. The second he got the chance, he and Rosalie skipped town. They ended up in Indianapolis, where Rosalie gave birth to Charles Manson Jr. on April 10, 1956.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But the new parents didn't have much time to enjoy their new baby. Just four days later, the cops caught up to them, and Charles was dragged back to California. And this time, there was no escaping. In April 1956, 21-year-old Charles Manson was arrested after trying to evade car theft charges.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He was sentenced to three years at Terminal Island Penitentiary in San Pedro, California, just a few miles south of LA. Meanwhile, his wife Rosalie and their newborn baby returned to California and moved back in with Charles' mom so they could be nearby. At Terminal Island, Charles interacted with all sorts of convicts.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Unlike his time at reform school, though, he didn't need to worry about asserting his dominance over them. If he didn't start any trouble, there wouldn't be any trouble. Instead, he decided to use his time to learn from his fellow convicts, specifically the pimps. They told Charles how they recruited vulnerable young women, then controlled them by separating them from their families.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
His disciples were all too eager to obey. They followed his every order without question. even if it meant committing murder. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
To make sure the women didn't try to leave, the pimps would give them just the right mixture of love bombing and fear. Most people would find that advice horrifying. Charles found it fascinating.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Do you think there's actually some part of him that has a desire to be a twisted sort of provider for them?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But there were some things in life Charles couldn't control. At first, Rosalie would bring Charles Jr. with her to visit the prison every week. Then, about a year into Charles' sentence, she stopped showing up. Rosalie had met someone else and was moving on. In June 1957, she and Charles were officially divorced. After that, Rosalie and the baby were completely out of his life.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Yeah, they had given Charles a sense of purpose. But now that they were gone, he needed to find a new direction in his life. It came in the form of a self-help guru named Dale Carnegie, the author of How to Win Friends and Influence People. Carnegie offered self-improvement classes at Terminal Island, and Charles was allowed to join one. He took to it like a fish to water.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Carnegie's book contained advice that would become especially important to Charles. He specifically latched onto the phrase, quote, "...let the other fellow feel that the idea is his," end quote. The course seemed to spark new life in Charles. Like his final stint in reform school, he became a model inmate, and on September 30, 1958, he was released early for good behavior.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Once again, he had the opportunity to take his life in any direction. But he couldn't seem to hold down a job. He was too focused on trying to become a pimp. It didn't go well. After his release, he stayed in L.A. and managed to recruit a couple young women. But he didn't follow his prison mentor's advice because he let them stay in touch with their families.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Almost immediately, one of the women's fathers complained about Charles to the police. Charles managed to talk his way out of it, and it wasn't long before he found himself in more hot water. On May 1, 1959, 24-year-old Charles got caught after he stole a U.S. Treasury check from a mailbox and tried to cash it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He was only able to avoid jail time because one of his few remaining sex workers pretended to be pregnant with his child. And they convinced Charles' parole officer to intervene. Instead, he got a 10-year suspended sentence that let him remain a free man. But in what had now become a predictable pattern, Charles didn't use the opportunity to better his life.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Instead, he dug in further, continuing to work as a pimp and stealing cars. However, Charles wasn't exactly a criminal mastermind. It didn't take long for the authorities to catch on to him, and he was arrested barely a year after being released from Terminal Island. His suspended sentence was revoked, and he was sent to a prison off the coast of Washington state to serve out the rest of his time.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Thirteen months after his release from Terminal Island, 25-year-old Charles was arrested again.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out CrimeHouse The Show.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Well, one thing was for sure. Charles treated this last incarceration as another learning opportunity. This time, he dove into the Church of Scientology, which had been founded just a few years earlier. But like the Dale Carnegie classes, Charles saw it less as an opportunity for self-improvement and more as a tool for manipulation.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He thought he could use the tenets of Scientology to appeal to potential sex work recruits, but he also used his new religion to placate the prison's staff. They liked it when inmates showed a positive attitude and were encouraged by Charles' interest in Scientology. Around this time, Charles also became interested in a science fiction book called Stranger in a Strange Land.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It's about a man raised on Mars who starts his own religion on Earth. The character also uses his mind to destroy his enemies, engages in group sex, and becomes an immortal spirit. These ideas, particularly the group sex, would become a major factor in Charles' ideology down the road.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In addition to learning to manipulate people, Charles used his time in prison to rekindle the guitar hobby he'd started back in West Virginia. One of the prison's most notorious convicts, former outlaw Alvin Creepy Karpis, was also a talented musician, and he was happy to give Charles lessons, although he didn't think his new student was very good.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But the biggest musical influence on Charles during this time was the Beatles. After hearing them on the radio, Charles became obsessed with becoming a famous musician himself. Until now, music had always been a fun hobby.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles' obsession with music helped him stay out of trouble, though, and on March 21, 1967, he was released early. Left with nowhere to go, he called a former prisoner he'd been friendly with. He invited 32-year-old Charles to come stay with him in Berkeley, California, in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
As one of the hippie movement's hotspots, it was the ideal place for an aspiring musician like Charles to hone his craft. But to Charles Manson, the Bay Area must have seemed like another planet. Until this point, he'd spent over half his life, and almost all of his adult years, in some kind of correctional facility.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Now he was set loose in the streets of Berkeley, the epicenter of the counterculture revolution that was sweeping the nation. It was home to people from all walks of life, from the Black Panthers to student protests at the University of California, to people just looking to express themselves freely. That included aspiring musicians like Charles, which presented a problem.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Every street corner was claimed, and every club was booked, so making a living playing guitar wasn't going to be easy. And Charles wasn't interested in working a typical blue-collar job in the meantime. He couldn't crash on his friend's couch forever, though, so if Charles was going to make his dreams come true, he needed to find somewhere to stay long-term that didn't require him to pay rent.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And thanks to what he'd learned in prison, he knew exactly how to do it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And to enhance your killer mind's listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting CrimeHouse bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In March of 1967, 32-year-old Charles Manson arrived in Berkeley, California, with dreams of becoming a famous musician. But the reality of that dream quickly set in. If Charles was going to stick around, he needed somewhere to stay that wasn't a fellow ex-convict's couch. And it wasn't long before he found the perfect opportunity.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Shortly after arriving in Berkeley, Charles was on the University of California's campus when he noticed someone standing out in the crowd, a 23-year-old assistant librarian named Mary Brunner. Unlike most of the people in Berkeley, Mary was very conservative, and she dressed like it. Charles sensed she was lonely in the sea of hippies, and they struck up a conversation.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
That was all Charles needed to sink his hooks into her. One of Charles Manson's enduring mysteries is how he convinced people to do such awful things for him. But when it came to Mary Brunner, all he had to do was be nice to her. He sang her some songs, complimented her dog, connected with her about the environment, he made her feel seen.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And when he mentioned he didn't have anywhere to stay at the moment, she was happy to put him up for a few nights. But Charles had no intention of leaving. It wasn't long before he and Mary were sleeping together, and he'd moved in for good. Charles wasn't really interested in a traditional relationship, though. He frequently brought other girls over to Mary's apartment, and she tolerated it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
As long as Charles still made her feel special, Mary turned a blind eye.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday right here. No need to do anything, just stay tuned. Now enjoy the episode.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And Charles loved the attention he got from all the various women he brought back to the apartment. But that feeling was fleeting. As soon as his visitors went home, it was just him and Mary again. Although she certainly doted on him, it wasn't enough. He wanted that feeling of overwhelming adoration permanently.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
To make that happen, he headed across the bay to San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district. Charles loved going to the Haight, as it was known. It was a hippie neighborhood with easy access to sex, drugs, and plenty of New Age thinking. While the district had its fair share of opportunities for street musicians like him, that's not what brought Charles there.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He liked Haight because it was a hotspot for street preachers. But Charles was fascinated by the hold some of these gurus had on their followers, and after everything he'd learned in prison, he felt like he could build a flock of his own. So he found an open stretch of sidewalk and started preaching. A lot of it was the same hippie philosophy all the others were spouting.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
This is the first of two episodes on Charles Manson. Some call him a cult leader. Some call him a serial killer. Some wonder if he can even be considered a killer at all. Because even though he went to prison for murder, Charles didn't deliver the fatal blow to any of his victims. His followers were his weapon of choice.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Self-love, limitless possibility, New Age spirituality, that sort of thing. But Charles delivered it better than anyone else. It wasn't long before his sermons attracted a devoted audience. Along with the attention he was getting, Charles enjoyed the easy access to drugs in the hate, particularly LSD.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
As his mind became increasingly divorced from reality, he started to equate himself with none other than Jesus Christ. He thought that if he could get a few devoted followers, they could recruit more exponentially, just like the apostles did for Jesus.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In May of 1967, 32-year-old Charles gained his first disciple, Lynette Fromey, an 18-year-old runaway he met on a trip to Venice Beach. Like with Mary Brunner, Charles made Lynette feel loved and appreciated. He gave her the meaning she was searching for, and she was eager to accompany him back to Berkeley.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Lynette moved in with Charles and Mary, and by the end of the summer they were joined by two women named Patricia Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins. But it wasn't all love and sunshine. Between the moments of bliss, Charles was always looking to test his followers' devotion. Sometimes he made them stand in front of a tree while Charles threw knives around them.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He wanted to see if they would trust him with their lives. And they did. That wasn't enough for him, though. He needed their focus on him at all times. If Charles felt like someone's attention was drifting during one of his sermons, he could get physically violent. By the end of the summer, Charles may have decided he needed more discipline in the group.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
To him, that meant recruiting some men as well. Sometime in the fall of 1967, he won over a guy named Bruce Davis. Bruce looked up to Charles just like the others did, and was desperate to become his right-hand man. Charles was happy to have a follower who was that devoted to him. And for the moment, the group he called the Manson family felt complete.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
In today's episode, we'll dig into Charles' early life and the circumstances that led him to form the notorious Manson family cult. Next time, we'll follow Charles' desperate search for purpose, his descent into madness, and the tragic murders that still haunt society today. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Well, now that Charles had his dedicated group of acolytes, he decided it was time to move on from the Bay Area. Although being a spiritual guru was nice, he still held onto his dreams of becoming a professional musician. To do that, he had to be where the action was, Los Angeles. So in November 1967, he gathered the family, and they drove down to LA in an old school bus.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
It turned out his old prison mentor who'd taught Charles guitar was well connected in the music scene. He told Charles to seek out an executive at Universal Music named Gary Stromberg. Stromberg actually agreed to see him, and liked Charles' music enough to set up a studio session. But once he got into the booth, Charles was out of his depth.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Stromberg suggested he work on his music some more and they could try again another time. That meant the Manson family needed somewhere to stay. They crashed at a few places in Topanga Canyon, LA's hippie hotspot. A lot of musicians lived there, and Charles spent a lot of time trying to connect with them. But they didn't think he was all that talented, and they brushed him off.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles didn't take it well. He took out his frustrations on his followers, sometimes through physical abuse. But his hold over them remained powerful, and they refused to abandon him while he pursued his dreams.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Even though Charles had plenty of loyal followers at this point, he decided he wanted to grow the family even more. He used the new environment to recruit more people, including 18-year-old Paul Watkins, the family's second male recruit, Ruth Ann Morehouse, a girl who Charles had been trying to get to join them for a while, and Dee Dee Lansbury, actress Angela Lansbury's teenage daughter.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
By early 1968, there were almost 20 people in the Manson family. Money wasn't a huge concern for them, they had plenty of places to stay, and there were so many of them, they could scrounge up enough from panhandling to get by. With this many people at his disposal, Charles was more interested in using his followers to help him make connections.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He liked to send the girls into the city to make friends with anyone who could introduce him to the right people. And sometime in the spring of 1968, it paid off when a couple of them befriended Dennis Wilson, the drummer of the Beach Boys. They introduced him to Charles, who wormed his way into Dennis' good graces.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Within a few days, the entire Manson family was getting comfortable at Dennis' large estate on Sunset Boulevard. Dennis loved Charles. He wasn't interested in joining the family, but he was more than happy to introduce Charles to a few friends in the music business. One of them was a young producer named Terry Melcher. Terry was a verified hitmaker.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
From the moment he was born on November 12th, 1934, Charles Manson's life was driven by deception. His birth certificate listed Kathleen and William Manson as his parents. But for years, Charles had no idea that William wasn't his father. That honor most likely belonged to a con artist named Colonel Scott.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Signing with him was almost a guaranteed success. But even though Charles came highly recommended to Terry, he didn't just sign people as a favor. And Terry wasn't interested in Charles' music. Dennis Wilson wasn't much of a resource anymore, either. After a few months, he'd started to tire of the family's constant presence. What began as a fun novelty had become an exhausting chore.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Charles was extremely demanding and too much to deal with. When Dennis' lease ended later that summer, he moved into a smaller place that couldn't accommodate the Manson family. Charles and his followers were back on their own, and his dreams of becoming a musician seemed farther away than ever.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Dr. Ankles, do people like Charles tend to make excuses in situations like this? Are they capable of introspection and really understanding why someone's upset with them?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
However Charles felt about getting kicked out of Dennis' place, he was certainly adaptable. He moved the family into Spahn Ranch, an old Western movie set outside of L.A. that had fallen into disrepair. In exchange for helping fix up the place, the ranch's elderly owner let them stay in the various shacks around the property for free.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Away from the hustle and bustle of the city, Charles was able to reassert control over the family. Dennis Wilson's house had been full of distractions. Now that they were more isolated out in the country, he could strengthen the hypnotic hold he had over his followers. He wanted more than a family. He wanted a cult. Thanks so much for listening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Come back next time for the conclusion of our series on Charles Manson and the terrifying murders he called Helter Skelter.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristan Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Colonel was Scott's given first name, but if people assumed he was in the Army, he didn't bother correcting them. That's how he caught Kathleen Maddox's attention at a dance club in Ironton, Ohio. He was 23. She was just 15. Kathleen was charmed by the older man she assumed was a military officer.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertsovsky, Sarah Camp, and Sheila Patterson. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was The Life and Times of Charles Manson by Jeff Gwynn. Thank you for listening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
So when she discovered she was pregnant sometime in the spring of 1934, Kathleen had no reason to doubt the colonel when he said he was being called away on duty. He promised he'd be back as soon as he could, but she never heard from him again. After a few months, Kathleen finally realized she'd been duped, and now she needed to find someone to help raise her soon-to-be newborn baby.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
That's when William Manson, who worked for a dry cleaning business, entered the picture. It's not really clear how the two of them met, but by the time Charles was born on November 12th, 1934, Kathleen and William were married. However, it doesn't seem either of them was all that interested in parenting. William wasn't around much, and neither was Kathleen.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Most days, she dropped Charles off with her mom so she could go out drinking with her brother.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
We all want a little guidance in our lives. Whether it's a long-time mentor, a favorite teacher, or maybe even your weekly astrology chart, it's nice to have someone or something to rely on for advice when things get tough. That was especially true in the 1960s and 70s during the counterculture era. It was a chaotic time, dominated by the Vietnam War and the protests against it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
So even if Charles' grandmother was a nurturing guardian, what kind of impact does it have on a child when they can tell their parents aren't that interested in raising them?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
With all this going on, it didn't take Kathleen and William long to realize they weren't right for each other. Within two and a half years, they were divorced. After that, Kathleen turned to petty crime to get by. And on August 1st, 1939, when Charles was almost five, she was arrested after an unsuccessful robbery.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Kathleen spent the next few years behind bars while young Charles was given to his aunt, uncle, and cousin who lived near the West Virginia prison where she was incarcerated.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
And it was a strict household on top of that, and Charles was frequently punished for breaking the rules. And he didn't have it much easier at school. He was small for his age and prone to mischief. That meant he drew the attention of bullies and received discipline from his teachers. It was a lot for a young boy to handle on his own.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
So when Kathleen was released from prison in 1942, eight-year-old Charles was over the moon. But after a short period of good behavior from both of them, things went south. Kathleen had a hard time staying on the straight and narrow, and Charles took his cues from her. He stopped going to school and started stealing from local shops.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
By the time Kathleen finally decided to get her life on track in 1943, she couldn't control her son anymore. In 1947, when Charles was 12, she sent him to a reform school in Terre Haute, Indiana called the Jebeau School for Boys. Predictably, things didn't go well. Within 10 months, Charles had run away multiple times.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
He alternated between going back to his family and living on his own, stealing to get by. When he inevitably got caught, he was sent to even stricter institutions. In 1949, at 13 years old, Charles found himself at a place called the Indiana Boys' School. And that's when his life became a living hell. It wasn't like things had been easy until this point.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
To find a sense of stability, a lot of people looked to spiritual gurus. With so much uncertainty in the world, it was reassuring to put your faith in someone who offered a sense of control over the chaos. But sometimes, that guidance turned out to be dangerous.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
But at the Indiana Boys School, things took a tragically dark turn. According to Charles, he was sexually assaulted by some of his fellow students. And to make a horrifying situation even worse, it was apparently encouraged by a staff member.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Now, it is important to note that Charles Manson was a notorious liar. And as author Jeff Gwynn pointed out in The Life and Times of Charles Manson, it's possible he was not being entirely truthful about the situation. But based on his later actions, it does seem like Charles experienced some kind of sexual abuse at the Indiana boys' school.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
So it wasn't surprising that Charles constantly tried to run away, to the tune of 18 times over the course of three years. And in February 1951, when Charles was 16, he got away from the Indiana boys' school for good. He and a couple other kids stole a car and decided to take it for a multi-state joyride, which got him in trouble with the federal authorities.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Instead of sending Charles back to Indiana, he was placed in the federal system, first at a facility called the National Training School in Washington, D.C., and then the Natural Bridge Honor Camp in Virginia. This time, he was the one attacking others. In January 1952, Charles was caught sexually assaulting another boy while holding a blade to his throat.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
Many of those gurus were self-proclaimed, and oftentimes more interested in boosting their own fortunes than providing the support they promised. And when it came to these false prophets, none were more dangerous than Charles Manson. Charles promised his followers the world. As long as they did what he said, they'd be rewarded with eternal happiness beyond their wildest dreams.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
MURDEROUS MINDS: Charles Manson & The Manson Family Cult Pt.1
After that, he was transferred to a high-security reform institution. With nowhere left to go, it seems like Charles realized he had to turn things around. Or at least pretend he did. He became such a model student that he was released early in 1954.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
And this time he decided to do something about it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
In early 1989, 30-year-old Joel Rifkin seemed to be finally making some progress in his career and his love life. He got an internship at an arboretum near his home on Long Island and even tried to make a romantic connection with a fellow intern. But when she didn't reciprocate his feelings, he started to spiral.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
All of a sudden, the pain, resentment, and shame he'd felt throughout his life came rushing back. Joel couldn't handle it. He needed to take his frustrations out on something. On February 20th, 1989, Joel's mom was out of town. He used the opportunity to drive into New York City like he'd done countless times before.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
He picked up a sex worker who called herself Susie and brought her back to his family's house on Long Island. After Joel and Susie had sex, she asked if they could go out and get some drugs, but Joel had no intention of letting her leave. Instead, he grabbed a heavy metal artillery shell he'd gotten from a flea market and started beating her with it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
After a few minutes, Joel was sure Susie was dead. But when he tried to move her, he realized she was still breathing. That's when Joel finally acted on his twisted fantasy. He grabbed Susie and strangled her to death. As the reality of what he'd done set in, Joel didn't feel any sense of remorse. He felt detached, cold.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
In the documentary Rifkin on Rifkin, Private Confessions of a Killer, he said, At the time, there was no more thought than stomping on a bug or a cockroach.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Too many kids go through the painful experience of being bullied, of being made to feel like they don't belong. It's understandable that wounds like this can linger into adulthood, creating a sense of deep alienation. Most of us are able to overcome those feelings, or at least confront them in a healthy way. But what happens when those wounds never heal, when they grow deeper and fester?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Dr. Engels, after so many years of fantasizing about this moment when he kills Susan, is it odd that he didn't feel more relief here?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
And to enhance your Mind of a Serial Killer listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
However Joel felt in that moment, he couldn't dwell on it for long because he had to figure out what to do with Susie's body. He had some ideas, though, because he'd been reading up on serial killers in preparation for this moment. In the end, he decided to take the body down to the basement and dismember it.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
He even cut off his victim's fingertips and pulled out her teeth to make it harder to identify her. But just like the murder itself, the gruesome task didn't bother him. Later, Joel said he, quote, "...looked at it as a job." After he was done, Joel placed Susie's severed head in an empty paint can and disposed of it near a golf club in New Jersey.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
He dumped the rest of her remains into the East River. And even though some golfers did find Susie's head a couple weeks later, the police were never able to identify her, just as he'd planned. There wasn't any evidence leading back to Joel either. He'd just gotten away with murder. But there were some variables he hadn't considered.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
When the news reported on the murder, they revealed that Susie had been HIV positive. Joel was terrified. Although he wasn't infected, the experience probably made him think twice about what he was doing. But after about a year and a half, Joel couldn't wait any longer. He was ready to strike again.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Sometime around late 1990, his mom headed out of town again, and Joel decided to look for another victim. Like before, Joel drove into the city and hired a sex worker. This time he fixated on a blonde woman named Julie Blackbird. She reminded him of Marilyn Monroe. Like he'd done with his first victim, Joel brought Julie back to his house.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
After they had sex, he bludgeoned her, this time with a heavy table leg. Once she was too weak to fight back, Joel strangled her to death. Then he dismembered her body in the basement. But before he did, he considered emulating one of his serial killer heroes, Ted Bundy, by having sex with her body. In the end, though, he claims he didn't go through with it. He thought it was too repulsive.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Whatever twisted moral compass Joel was following, he decided to be more careful about getting rid of Julie's body. He didn't want to risk having her remains discovered and linked back to him. This time, he put her body parts into a few buckets and a milk crate, filled the containers with cement, and dropped them into the East River. To this day, nobody has found Julie Blackbird's remains.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
And now that Joel had murdered two people with little issue, he was feeling more confident. On July 13th, 1991, less than a year after he killed Julie Blackbird, Joel killed another sex worker, a woman named Barbara Jacobs. In what was now a familiar pattern, Joel brought Barbara back to the house in Long Island, then bludgeoned her with the same table leg he used to kill Julie Blackbird.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Then he proceeded to strangle her to death. However, Joel was put off by the thought of dismembering another victim. Or maybe he just didn't want to go through the trouble. Either way, he simply wrapped Barbara's body in plastic, placed it in a cardboard box, then dropped it into the Hudson River. This change in plans was a critical mistake.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Before we get into the story, you should know it contains descriptions of sexual assault, dismemberment, and murder. Listener discretion is advised. This is the first of two episodes on serial killer Joel Rifkin, also known as Joel the Ripper. In the late 1980s and early 90s, Joel stalked the streets of New York City, preying on vulnerable sex workers.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Just a few hours later, the box with Barbara's body still in it washed back on shore and was discovered by firefighters doing a training exercise. Even then, Joel's carelessness didn't come back to bite him. Even though someone had clearly tried to dump Barbara's body, the coroner determined she died of a drug overdose.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
It's not clear if they didn't notice the impact wounds from the table leg or just didn't want to waste time and resources on a sex worker. But either way, the authorities didn't pursue it any further.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, it made Joel realize that if he chose a certain kind of victim, namely vulnerable, anonymous women, he didn't need to worry about being so careful after all. A little less than two months later, on September 1st, 1991, 32-year-old Joel headed to his familiar hunting ground in Manhattan, where he picked up 22-year-old sex worker Mary Ellen DeLuca.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
But Joel didn't take Mary Ellen back to his house like with his first three victims. Instead, he drove her around the city until sunrise, stopping to score drugs for her along the way. It's not clear if he was trying to make it look like a drug overdose or if he was just trying to make Mary Ellen more intoxicated and vulnerable.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Regardless, they eventually ended up at a cheap motel where Joel strangled her to death.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, Joel hadn't thought the whole thing through. The sun was up, and he was in the middle of New York City with a dead body on his hands. Thinking fast, Joel took more inspiration from his favorite movie, Frenzy. He remembered that in one scene, the killer hides one of his victims in a heavy clothing trunk.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
So Joel went out and bought a similar trunk, lugged it back to the motel room, and placed Mary Ellen's body inside. Then he carried it out to his car and dropped it at a rest stop in plain sight. It took a month for anyone to bother looking at it. By that point, Mary Ellen's remains were so badly decomposed she couldn't be identified. She was buried as a Jane Doe.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
But the experience emboldened Joel even further. At this point, he must have felt invincible.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Does it give them a sense of invincibility? Do they feel like they're able to kill with greater frequency? Or is that drive so innate in them that it wouldn't matter if they're being investigated or not?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
In total, he claimed at least 17 victims, the highest number in New York's history. In today's episode, we'll explore the trauma and alienation Joel experienced as a child, how those wounds festered into adulthood, and how it turned him into a merciless serial killer.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, once Joel realized nobody was coming after him, he certainly wasn't trying to space out his attacks anymore. Later in September 1991, just a few weeks after killing Mary Ellen DeLuca, Joel murdered 31-year-old sex worker Yun Lee. He put her in the same kind of trunk he'd used with Mary Ellen, but this time he went back to his original strategy and dropped it in the East River.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
After that, 32-year-old Joel took a couple months off, but not because he was worried about being caught. Murder had become so routine to him and had lost that special edge. He wasn't really even planning them out anymore. Instead, he later described his thinking as, quote, "'If it happens, it happens.'" Well, just before Christmas 1991, it happened again.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Joel picked up a sex worker in Manhattan whose name he couldn't recall. This time, he didn't even bother going somewhere to kill her. He just did it right in his car.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
With her body in the passenger seat, he drove out to a workspace he'd rented that year to start a landscaping business. He left the body there, then went to pick up a 55-gallon drum from a recycling plant where he used to work. He went back to fetch the body, then headed for an old junkyard along the East River. But the area wasn't as private as Joel thought.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
As he headed back to his car, there were two police officers waiting for him. And they were very interested in what Joel was up to. Around Christmas time in 1991, 32-year-old Joel Rifkin claimed his sixth victim. After killing her, he went to a Riverside junkyard to get rid of the body, but on his way back to his car, Joel was stopped by a pair of police officers.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Now, it's not clear if the officers saw him dropping the barrel in the river, but they did think he was at the junkyard to illegally dump some trash. Joel managed to talk his way out of it. He said he was actually there to look for junk, not to throw it away. The officers took him at his word. They let Joel leave with nothing more than a warning.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
They had no idea they'd just let a serial killer slip through their fingers.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Next time, we'll follow his insatiable addiction to violence, the conclusion of his grisly murder spree, and how the police finally caught up to him. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a serial killer? Throughout his life, Joel Rifkin was always incredibly insecure. Even though he was smart and capable, he felt like he could never measure up to people's expectations.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, in some way, the close call seemed to have energized Joel because he barely waited before killing again. Just a few days later, on December 26th, 1991, Joel murdered 28-year-old Lorraine Orvieto. He didn't even bother going to the city this time. He picked her up close to his family's house on Long Island. Once he had Lorraine in his car, Joel killed her in an empty school parking lot.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Afterwards, Joel put her body in another large plastic drum. Then he drove out to Brooklyn and dumped the container into Coney Island Creek. By the end of 1991, Joel had murdered at least seven women. And he wasn't going to stop anytime soon.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, it certainly seemed like Joel's need to kill was becoming routine at this point. On January 2nd, 1992, just about a week after he murdered Lorraine Orvieto, Joel hired a 39-year-old sex worker named Mary Ann Holloman. He picked her up and took her to the same parking lot where he'd taken his fourth victim, Yeon Lee, just a few months before.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
And he killed her in the same way he'd killed Lorraine Orvieto just a week prior.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
strangulation during oral sex then he drove the body back to long island put it in one of his 55 gallon drums and dumped it in a nearby creek at this point as you said the novelty of killing had worn off so much for joel that he didn't even remember his next victim's name or even when he killed her not much is known about this woman so she's only referred to as victim number nine
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
later on joel could only recall that she had tattoos and fought fiercely for her life but when her body was discovered floating along a creek in brooklyn on may 13 1992 the authorities didn't even suspect murder even though she'd been stuffed in a barrel just like several of joel's other victims the authorities found drugs in her system
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
They thought maybe she was a drug mule who'd died of an overdose and didn't look into it any further. After killing his ninth victim, Joel murdered three more women by mid-July of 1992, Iris Sanchez, Ana Lopez, and Violet O'Neill.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Although they all played out a bit differently, like at various times of day, with different ways of disposing of the bodies, the method was always the same, strangulation. If Joel was looking for a new rush, what happened next definitely accomplished that. On July 9th, 1992, the police received an anonymous tip that there was a dead body on the banks of Coney Island Creek.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
It was the remains of Joel's eighth victim, Mary Ann Holliman. By coincidence, the police also found the remains of Joel's seventh victim, Lorraine Orvieto, two days later. The similarities were obvious. Both were sex workers. Both had been stuffed into oil drums. Both had clearly died from strangulation wounds.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Finally, the police realized they were dealing with murder cases, not overdoses, and that they might have a serial killer on their hands.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
And those feelings stemmed from some of his earliest childhood moments. After Joel was born on January 20th, 1959, his birth parents, who were young and unmarried, put him up for adoption. Of course, he wasn't able to understand what was happening to him at the time, but his adoptive parents, Jean and Bernard Rifkin, treated Joel as if he were their own flesh and blood.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
For the moment, these were the only cases being linked to the same person, and nobody suspected Joel was the culprit. Even so, Joel decided to lay low for a bit. He didn't kill again for the rest of the summer, but by the fall, he was ready to strike again. Tragically, we don't know a lot about many of Joel's victims.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
But we do know a bit more about the next woman he attacked, 32-year-old Mary Catherine Williams. Back in high school, Mary Catherine was homecoming queen and head cheerleader. She was the kind of pretty, popular, all-American girl Joel never had a chance with as a teenager. But as an adult, her life took a turn for the worse.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
She moved to New York to try to break into acting, but things didn't work out. Mary Catherine ended up down on her luck, separated from her husband, and addicted to crack cocaine. She eventually turned to sex work, which is how she crossed paths with Joel Rifkin. He hired her on a couple of occasions and everything had gone fine.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
So when he hired her again on October 2nd, 1992, Mary Catherine didn't think anything was amiss. Joel bought her some drugs and she trusted him enough to fall asleep in his car. And that's when he attacked. Like all his other victims, Joel strangled Mary Catherine to death. After the long break between murders, it seems like Joel couldn't help himself any longer.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
After killing Mary Catherine, he only waited about a month and a half before seeking out his 14th victim, 23-year-old Jenny Soto. On November 16, 1992, Joel picked Jenny up in Manhattan near the Williamsburg Bridge. After having sex with her in his pickup truck, Joel began to strangle her. But Jenny fought back, hard.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
The struggle was so intense, she broke every single one of her false nails and left deep scratches all over Joel's body before he eventually overpowered her. The experience left Joel feeling shaken up. Plenty of his victims had resisted him before, but Jenny was the first to leave a mark.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Now, he didn't just have to figure out how to get rid of her body, he had to figure out how to explain those scratches, too. He knew that in order to avoid suspicion, he had to take a longer break from killing. But like many people who suffer from addiction, Joel couldn't contain himself. And when he went in search for his next fix, it was deadlier than ever. Thanks so much for listening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
We'll be back next time as we discuss Joel Rifkin's last victims and the unlikely event that led to the end of his rampage.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Mind of a Serial Killer ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. We'll be back next Monday.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Mind of a Serial Killer is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristan Engels, and is a CrimeHouse original powered by PAVE Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Mind of a Serial Killer team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro,
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Growing up in Long Island, New York, Joel was comfortable, safe, and loved. But being a Rifkin came with high expectations, particularly from his adoptive father. Bernard was a successful structural engineer who was popular with friends and colleagues, and Joel didn't quite live up to that reputation.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was Joel Rifkin, The Horrifying and True Story of Joel the Ripper by Jack Rosewood and Rebecca Lowe. Thank you for listening.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Joel was a naturally smart kid with a recorded IQ of 128, but he also struggled with an undiagnosed learning disability, possibly dyslexia. It impacted his grades, which seemed to embarrass Bernard. Even typical father-son activities like playing catch in the yard came with a lot of pressure. Joel said that Bernard, who had been a college athlete, wanted Joel to follow in his footsteps.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
But Joel admitted he had, quote, "...as much chance of catching the ball with his face as with his hands."
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Dr. Ingalls, how can unrealistic expectations from a parent linger into adulthood? Of course, they don't turn everyone into a serial killer, but what's the long-term effects of feeling that familial pressure?
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
How far would you go to finally regain power or control? In the case of Joel Rifkin, he went to the most extreme lengths possible. He found vulnerable people he could dominate and made sure he was the one in control. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
The pressures at home definitely seemed to overwhelm Joel, and he didn't have it easy at school either. On top of being a bad student, his appearance made him a target for bullying in junior high. With his thick wire-framed glasses and bad posture, Joel was nicknamed the Turtle. And that was just the beginning of his suffering.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
When Joel got to high school, he tried to make some friends by joining the track team. It didn't work. His lack of athleticism earned him yet another embarrassing nickname, Lardass. With no friends to speak of, Joel spent his nights holed up alone in his room. And even though Joel had an adoptive sister and they got along, it doesn't seem like they were particularly close.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Instead, Joel found comfort and escape by watching movies. And in 1972, when he was 13, one film in particular caught his attention. Sometime that year, Joel watched a horror movie called Frenzy. It's all about a serial killer who terrorizes the streets of London and strangles his victims with neckties.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
One scene in particular features the murder of a character shown close up as she's sexually assaulted and strangled to death. Joel would later claim this movie was the inspiration behind his murder spree, but for the moment he wasn't planning to hurt anyone, he was still trying to make friends.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
In another attempt to fit in, he joined the staff of his high school yearbook, but his camera was immediately stolen, and then he didn't get invited to the group's end-of-year party. But Joel wasn't just being shunned. He was being relentlessly, viciously bullied. On one occasion, he even had a pair of underwear shoved into his mouth.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, considering everything Joel went through in high school, he must have been relieved when he graduated in 1977. Now 18, it was time for a fresh start, and Joel signed up for a local community college. But there was something else he wanted to do before he began. Have sex.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Joel had been interested in women for a while, but considering his social standing in high school, dating wasn't exactly an option. So he decided to try something else. Paying for it. Before starting college, he drove into New York City and hired a sex worker. Finally, after years of being bullied, he was getting what he wanted. And even better, he was the one in control.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
He was able to let his fantasies run wild. Specifically, he liked to think about overpowering and strangling the women, just like in his favorite movie, Frenzy. He didn't act on that fantasy at that point, but just the thought of it gave him an emotional rush, and it's one he chased again and again from that moment on.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
After that first encounter, Joel started hiring sex workers so often it became like an addiction. He spent so much time with them, he only finished a single course during his first year of community college.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Well, maybe he realized he needed a change of scenery, because in the fall of 1978, Joel transferred to a state university in Brockport, New York, over 400 miles from Long Island. And it seemed to do him some good. While he was there, Joel started dating a fellow student. However, it wasn't enough to fill the void in his heart.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Joel was still depressed and lonely, and it took a toll on the relationship. Eventually, things fizzled out. Joel took the breakup hard. A friend who knew him at the time said, quote, he was in love with her. When that relationship ended, he talked about her for a very long time. Following that failed relationship, Joel tried to get his life back on track a few times.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Over the course of several years, he was in and out of college. It never stuck, though. He couldn't break his addiction to hiring sex workers or the fantasy of choking the life out of them. Those thoughts became so overwhelming, Joel finally gave up on academics in 1984 when he was 25. He ended up back in Long Island with his parents, working odd jobs to support his secret addiction.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Then in 1986, when Joel was 27, things got even worse. That year, Joel's adoptive father, Bernard, was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Despite their strained relationship, Joel still really cared about his dad, and the experience was extremely hard on him. Joel later said his father's struggle with the disease was tough to watch.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
During this emotional time, Joel said his father would hug his mother and sister, but not him, because according to Joel, he was still a disappointment. Even so, Joel remained by Bernard's side as his father's health deteriorated. By early 1987, Bernard couldn't bear the pain anymore. He overdosed on barbiturates and died.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
This is Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and violent offenders. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out Crime House The Show.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
At the funeral, Joel gave a eulogy that reportedly brought the mourners to tears. In a poignant moment, he said, quote, "'Though my father did not give me life, he gave me love.'"
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
Even though Joel was still grieving, Bernard's death seemed to take some weight off Joel's shoulders. And for a brief time after his father's passing, Joel's life took a turn for the better. He'd always enjoyed gardening, and in 1988, he started taking horticulture classes at the New York State College of Technology. For the first time, Joel managed to succeed at something.
Killer Minds: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers & Murderers
Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1
The 29-year-old got straight A's in his first year of the program and landed an internship at a local arboretum in early 1989. During his time there, he developed a crush on one of his fellow interns. Unfortunately for him, she didn't feel the same way. And with that, all the emotional progress Joel had made over the past year vanished. Joel felt ashamed, humiliated and most of all angry.
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After Patty, Bill, and Emily made their getaway, they ditched the van and stole a couple different cars to cover their tracks. But just in case the police were onto them, they decided to lay low at a motel near Disneyland. That decision saved their lives. They didn't know it at the time, but the LAPD had found the SLA's hideout.
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One day after the Mel's Sporting Goods debacle, the police surrounded the safe house. The standoff ended in a gunfight and the house caught fire. All six SLA members who were inside were killed. Patty, Bill, and Emily watched the destruction live on television from their motel. After that, the three of them went even further underground.
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By November 1974, about five months after the SLA's safe house was burned down, Katherine and Randolph Hearst hadn't heard any news from their daughter. It seems like they may have given up on ever getting her back. Around that time, the Hursts withdrew their $50,000 reward for Patty's safe return.
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Meanwhile, Patty, Bill, and Emily were quietly rebuilding the SLA, raising funds and recruiting new members. By the following April, they were running out of resources, so they turned back to a tried-and-true method of getting some cash, a bank robbery. On April 21, 1975, Patty, Bill, Emily, and another SLA comrade held up a bank in Carmichael, California.
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During the robbery, an innocent 42-year-old woman named Myrna Opshall was shot and killed, allegedly by Emily. The SLA managed to get away with $15,000, but the heist put them back on the authorities' radar. Patty and the others were able to hide for a few more months, but in September 1975, the FBI identified two of their safe houses in San Francisco.
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And on the 18th of that month, the authorities made their move. At one house, the FBI arrested three SLA members, including Bill and Emily Harris. They found Patty an hour later at the second safe house, 19 months after she was taken from her apartment, she was finally in custody.
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Now it was time to settle the question everyone had been wondering ever since Patty declared her allegiance to the SLA. Whose side was she really on? Initially, she seemed to be loyal to the SLA. When Patty was first arrested, she described her occupation as, quote, urban guerrilla. But once Patty was reunited with her family, things started to change.
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The Hursts hired a top-of-the-line defense team for their daughter's upcoming trial and were adamant that she was a victim. When the trial began, the defense's version of Patty's captivity was horrifying. They claimed she'd been kept in a closet for days, blindfolded. Then she was repeatedly shoved in a garbage can so the SLA could move her from one safe house to another.
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According to the defense, Patty's days were filled with the SLA preaching about their cause and torture. She reported being sleep deprived, raped, and threatened. She claimed that nothing she did was her choice. However, the jury didn't see it that way. In March 1976, more than two years after Patty Hearst was kidnapped, she was found guilty of armed robbery.
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She got a seven-year sentence, but only ended up serving two. Bill and Emily Harris were both found guilty of kidnapping and served eight years in prison. Patty eventually received a full pardon for her part in the SLA's crime spree by President Bill Clinton. She went on to move past her ordeal, marrying a member of her security team and starting a family.
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To this day, the debate continues over what Patty's experience with the SLA really was like. Bill Harris claims that while Patty was never a full convert to the SLA's cause, it was her decision to stay with the group. He maintains that she was treated well and that her version of events came from a need to protect herself at trial.
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Whatever the truth is, the fact remains that Patty didn't choose to be kidnapped. The SLA put their own so-called noble causes ahead of a young woman's life. And because of that, Patty Hearst's life was changed forever. Up next, another kidnapping story that dominated the headlines, and a moment from this week in 2003 that signaled a turning point in the infamous case of Elizabeth Smart.
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On February 3rd, 2003, Ed and Lois Smart called a press conference in their hometown of Salt Lake City, Utah. About seven months earlier, their 14-year-old daughter Elizabeth had been abducted from the Smart's home in the middle of the night. Since then, the investigation had gone nowhere. But Ed and Lois felt like the police weren't doing everything they could to find Elizabeth.
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There was a crucial piece of information the authorities hadn't shared with the public. And if they wouldn't, the smarts would. During their press conference, Ed and Lois displayed a sketch of a middle-aged man. He had short, wavy hair, hollow cheekbones, and light-colored, almost haunting eyes. According to them, this was the man who'd taken their daughter.
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The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart had a huge impact on the Salt Lake City community and the entire nation. It was the sort of thing that just didn't seem possible. The Smarts were a big, tight-knit religious family who lived in an affluent neighborhood. Elizabeth's parents, Ed and Lois, had six kids, two girls and four boys. The Smarts practiced Mormonism, which was common where they lived.
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About half the population of Salt Lake City was Mormon. That meant a lot of people, including Elizabeth and her family, felt like they lived in a safe, like-minded community bubble. But bubbles are notoriously easy to burst. The night of June 4th, 2002, Lois Smart was feeling a bit distracted. She burned some potatoes while cooking and opened a kitchen window to air it out.
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When the family went to sleep, she forgot to shut the window. That night, 14-year-old Elizabeth and her 9-year-old sister, Mary Catherine, read the book Ella Enchanted in the bed they shared together. After a while, they drifted off to sleep. When Elizabeth woke up, it was still dark. She was disoriented but instantly knew what had woken her. There was a cold knife pressed against her throat.
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We'll start today's episode in 1974, when Patty Hearst was ripped from her life of privilege and taken hostage by a group of radical militants. Then we'll skip forward to 2003, when Elizabeth Smart's parents turned their 14-year-old daughter's kidnapping case on its head by publicly sharing information the police had kept to themselves. Both cases made headlines around the nation, even the world.
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A male voice told Elizabeth to get out of bed and threatened to kill her and her family if she tried anything. Elizabeth could feel her sister sleeping next to her and was terrified of what the man would do to Mary Catherine if Elizabeth screamed. So she let the intruder lead her out of her room, then through the front door and into the night.
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Elizabeth didn't know it, but the commotion had actually woken Mary Catherine up. She was so scared of what he'd said, she couldn't bring herself to get out of bed. Finally, after a few hours had passed, she felt safe enough to run to her parents' room and tell them what happened. She told them, Elizabeth's gone. Lois and Ed assumed Mary Catherine meant Elizabeth had just left the girls' room.
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They thought maybe the girls had gotten into a fight or something, and Elizabeth was sleeping elsewhere in the house. But the moment Lois saw the kitchen window she'd accidentally left open, she knew something terrible had happened. The screen was cut, which meant someone had broken in and kidnapped her daughter. They called the police, who arrived by 4 a.m.
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It's unclear exactly how long this was after the kidnapping, but at least a few hours had gone by. By this point, Elizabeth's captor had driven her deep into the mountains surrounding Salt Lake City before stopping. They'd been hiking uphill for a long time, when at some point, Elizabeth realized she recognized him.
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The previous fall, her parents had hired him off the street to do some odd jobs around the house. He called himself Emmanuel. In reality, he was 49-year-old Brian David Mitchell. Elizabeth's kidnapping was the beginning of a twisted mission he'd concocted. Brian thought he was a prophet and was destined to have multiple wives. And Brian had decided Elizabeth would be wife number two.
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But Elizabeth didn't know any of that as she walked into the darkness. After hours of hiking, they reached a campsite on the side of a mountain. There was a tent and a few tarps on the ground. A woman in a headdress and long robe was there, waiting for them. This was 57-year-old Wanda Barzee, Brian's first wife.
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Wanda and Brian put Elizabeth in the tent, forced her to undress, and then Wanda oversaw a marriage ceremony between Brian and Elizabeth. We don't know what the ceremony entailed, but we do know what horrors happened in its aftermath. Brian raped Elizabeth, then chained her to a tree by the ankle with a metal cable. Elizabeth described the days that followed as full of boredom, hunger, and rape.
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She was sometimes kept in a hole with a board over it. Brian threatened her often, saying he would kill her family if she tried to run away. He withheld food and forced her to drink alcohol and look at porn. He seemed to believe wearing her down would eventually purify her. Meanwhile, the authorities were desperately trying to find Elizabeth.
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In the first two weeks after she went missing, the police conducted an astounding 850 searches for her. They deployed everything at their disposal. Bloodhounds, helicopters, infrared cameras. Despite all those resources, it was her own family who came closest to finding her. During one search, Elizabeth's uncle came so close to Brian's campsite, she could hear him shouting her name.
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But before Elizabeth could do anything, Brian threatened to kill her if she made any noise. The whole time, Elizabeth was only a few miles from home. It made her captivity all the more agonizing, especially when she heard her own search party looking for her. Three days after she was kidnapped, Elizabeth could hear her uncle's voice in the woods, calling her name.
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Brian heard it too, and told her not to make a sound. He warned her that if anyone found their campsite, he would kill them and Elizabeth. Elizabeth kept quiet. Eventually, her uncle's voice faded into the distance. In those first few days, the police were also looking into anyone associated with the Smart family.
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They were stories of fear, resilience, uncertainty, and changed the way we think about safety forever. It was around 9 p.m. on February 4, 1974. Nineteen-year-old college student Patty Hurst was at her apartment in Berkeley, California, with her fiancé, 26-year-old Stephen Weed. As they settled in for the night, there was an unexpected knock on the door. Stephen and Patty found it odd.
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It turned out Ed and Lois frequently hired men who were down on their luck to work on their house. And less than 10 days after Elizabeth's kidnapping, they believed they were zeroing in on a suspect. Unfortunately, it wasn't Brian Mitchell. In the aftermath of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart's kidnapping in June 2002, the police zeroed in on a suspect.
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Unfortunately, it wasn't Elizabeth's actual kidnapper, Brian Mitchell. It was one of the Smart's handymen, 48-year-old Richard Ricci, as a suspicious person because of his violent criminal background. There wasn't any evidence immediately tying him to the kidnapping, but four weeks after Elizabeth was taken, Richard was arrested for stealing from some of the families in the neighborhood.
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The police also found something else when they questioned him. Apparently, he revealed he'd driven hundreds of miles around the time Elizabeth was kidnapped, but he wouldn't say why or where he went. It all sounded suspicious. The problem was, Elizabeth's little sister, Mary Catherine, had actually seen her sister's abductor, and she didn't think it was Richard.
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Of course, she was right, but Richard seemed too likely a culprit. Despite what Mary Catherine said, the police continued to focus on Richard as a suspect. By the end of July 2002, Elizabeth had been trapped at Brian's campsite for around 50 days. The police weren't any closer to finding her, and around this time, Brian decided he was going to take another wife.
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According to Elizabeth, she accidentally mentioned she had a 15-year-old cousin. Brian latched onto this piece of information and decided to go after her. On July 24, 2002, Brian went down to Salt Lake City to kidnap her. But it didn't go off as smoothly as Elizabeth's abduction had. One of the kids in the house woke up when Brian tried cutting the screen to a bedroom window.
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The police were called immediately, but Brian left before anyone saw him. Even though this happened to another member of the Smart family, and it also involved a window screen getting cut, the police didn't think this crime was related to Elizabeth's kidnapping.
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The Smart family was going through a living nightmare, and it got worse in early August when the police's number one suspect, Richard Ricci, died from a brain aneurysm. Seemingly, any answers about their daughter's whereabouts died with him. It seemed like Lois and Ed had different coping mechanisms during this difficult time. Lois focused on their kids and keeping the family functioning.
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Meanwhile, Ed decided to keep the investigation moving. He did media appearances and tried to get his daughter's face and name out there however he could. He did a good job, too. They got thousands of tips from all over the country in response to Elizabeth's story. Soon, she was a household name. Elizabeth didn't know about any of it. She was busy just trying to survive.
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After her cousin's attempted abduction, she decided to change tactics with Brian. Instead of fighting him, she tried cooperating. Her strategy worked. Brian decided to finally unchain Elizabeth, and eventually, he even took her and Wanda into the city to scavenge for food. During one of these excursions, he actually took her to a party, hiding her face with a veil.
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There's a haunting photo someone took at this event. It shows Elizabeth concealed in white robes, standing beside Brian, surrounded by people. She didn't scream or run. She was still too terrified to risk it. At some point before the fall of 2002, Brian took Elizabeth and Wanda into town again.
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He was thinking about moving to San Diego, so they went to the library to look at maps and find the best route to get there. Brian dressed Elizabeth in a robe and veil that covered her face and kept her by his side. This time, someone noticed them and got an uneasy feeling. They called the police, and an officer showed up at the library. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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It was getting late, and they weren't expecting anyone. Berkeley was a college town, though. It was entirely possible that it was just a friend dropping by. So Stephen went to answer the door, Patty following behind him. They didn't have a window or peephole to see who it was, so Stephen cracked the door. It was a woman neither of them knew.
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The stranger claimed she'd accidentally backed her car into theirs and asked if she could use their phone. Patty wasn't happy about that. She turned and headed back towards the living room, leaving Stephen to figure it out. A moment later, there was a loud noise as the woman and two men barged their way into the apartment. They were all carrying weapons.
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They beat Stephen until he was barely conscious, then tied Patty up and carried her outside. After a brief struggle, they forced her into the trunk of her car and sped away. Patty had no idea what they wanted or where they were taking her, but she was pretty sure she knew why she'd been targeted. Her name. Patty belonged to one of the world's richest and most powerful families.
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Her grandfather, William Randolph Hearst, was the founder of a vast media empire. The company is still wildly successful today, generating billions of dollars every year. Patty had been raised accordingly, growing up in a mansion outside of San Francisco with her parents and four sisters.
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But even though being a Hearst came with a lot of perks, it also came with a lot of expectations, and Patty wasn't all that interested in following the blueprint her family set out for her. She was a bit of a rebel, pushing against the high society behavior and expectations demanded by her mother, Catherine.
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And although Patty's father, Randolph, appreciated his daughter's verve, her teachers weren't as amused. Patty quickly wore out her welcome at the various upper-class schools she went to, and by the time she graduated high school, she'd gone to five different institutions. Her final one proved to have the biggest impact on her. It was there that she met her soon-to-be fiancé, Steve.
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Like the rest of Patty's life so far, the match wasn't without controversy. Steve wasn't a fellow student, He was Patty's math teacher and seven years her elder. Safe to say Patty's parents didn't approve of their relationship, but she didn't seem to care what her parents thought because she and Steve moved in together and enrolled at nearby UC Berkeley.
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And then they got engaged in December 1973 when Patty was 19. Even though Randolph and Catherine weren't thrilled, they still printed an engagement announcement in the San Francisco papers. That's where 29-year-old Bill Harris first saw the name Patty Hearst. Bill was a postal worker and member of a Bay Area militant group called the Symbionese Liberation Army, or SLA.
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They considered themselves guerrilla warriors and wanted to get rid of capitalism and start a war with the government. Their motto was, quote, "...death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people." After Bill saw the engagement announcement, he had an idea. Two members of the SLA had recently been arrested for a shooting in Oakland.
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Bill thought the group could use a high-profile captive like Patty to negotiate a prisoner swap. As an added bonus, Patty would be a great metaphor for their cause. An absurdly wealthy family like the Hursts were the epitome of capitalism. By kidnapping one of their daughters, the SLA would make headlines and, presumably, a lot of money.
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After reading the engagement announcement, Bill went to the Berkeley campus and was able to find Patty's address. Over the next month or two, Bill and the SLA found out that despite being from an important, well-known family, Patty didn't have any security. So, on the night of February 4th, 1974, Bill and two other SLA members abducted Patty from her apartment.
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After shoving her in their car, they drove to their safe house and locked her in a closet. Like Bill predicted, the kidnapping made headlines immediately. Along with Steve, multiple people around the apartment complex had witnessed the kidnapping. They went to the authorities, and it wasn't long before the media found out about it.
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During the week of February 3, 1974, 19-year-old Patty Hearst was taken from her home by a violent group of self-described revolutionaries. Almost three decades later, in 2003, another shocking abduction haunted the nation when the composite sketch of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart's abductor was released to the public.
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The next day, February 5th, the media converged on the Hursts' sprawling home outside San Francisco, trying to get a sound bite from her panic-stricken parents. But the Hursts were in the dark, too. Thankfully, they only had to wait one more day to find out what happened to their daughter. On February 6th, the SLA contacted a Berkeley radio station by mail.
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In their letter, which was written in the style of an arrest warrant for Patty, the SLA took responsibility for the kidnapping. However, they didn't make a ransom demand. That came six days later on February 12th. But the SLA didn't ask for a prisoner swap like they'd initially intended to. They didn't ask for money either, at least not for them.
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In exchange for Patty's safe return, the SLA wanted the Hurst family to invest millions of dollars into a food program for Americans living in poverty. To prove Patty was safe, the SLA also included a voice message from her via tape. She told her parents that she was okay and urged them to listen to the SLA's demands.
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Catherine and Randolph were prepared to do as they asked, but the SLA's request was a logistical nightmare. The Hursts had to create a multi-million dollar food distribution plan from scratch and quickly. But they were willing to do whatever it took to get their daughter back.
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And on February 22nd, 10 days after the SLA's request, the Hursts managed to launch a food giveaway program called People in Need. It was an unmitigated disaster. So many people showed up to the first day of distributions that it descended into riots. Making matters worse, the SLA refused to let Patty go unless things improved.
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As the Hursts were trying to organize their program over the next few weeks, the SLA continued to send them recordings from Patty. She didn't sound impressed with their efforts to free her. In one recording from March 1974, she said, quote, I don't believe that you're doing anything at all. But Catherine and Randolph refused to give up.
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They managed to smooth things out over the course of the next month. By March 26, 1974, the Hursts had spent $2 million and given away over 150,000 bags of food. It seemed like this time they'd done enough to secure Patty's release, and it appeared the SLA would honor their word.
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On April 2nd, almost two months after Patty was kidnapped, they promised to send more details about her release within 72 hours. But the following day, the Hearsts received an alarming recording. Apparently, there'd been a change of plans, but not from the SLA. From Patty. In the recording, she called herself Tanya and claimed that she was no longer the SLA's prisoner because she'd joined them.
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The Hursts could hardly believe it. Patty had never been very political, and now she was suddenly joining the group that had kidnapped her? It just didn't make sense. They were certain that Patty wasn't in control of the situation. she had to be speaking under duress. But on April 15th, 1974, 12 days after they heard that tape, everything changed.
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That day, five armed members of the SLA charged into a bank in San Francisco and stole $10,000. As the group held up the tellers at gunpoint, the bank's surveillance system was recording their every move. When the authorities reviewed the footage, they were shocked to see a familiar face among the robbers. It was the now 20-year-old Patty Hurst. She certainly didn't seem like a captive.
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Today, we'll dive into both of these notorious true crime cases, making this week's theme kidnappings. Welcome to Crime House The Show. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Every Monday, we'll be revisiting notorious crimes from this week in history. From serial killers to mysterious disappearances or murders, every episode will explore two true crime cases that share a common theme.
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Patty was armed with a gun and was a full participant in the heist. In case there were any doubts, she sent out another recording after the robbery. She said she was, quote, "...a soldier in the People's Army." No matter what her parents believed, Patty's case changed at that moment. All of a sudden, the authorities were less interested in rescuing her and more interested in arresting her.
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And they were willing to do whatever it took to catch her. On April 15, 1974, the Symbionese Liberation Army robbed a bank in San Francisco. Patty Hearst, who they'd kidnapped a little over two months earlier, helped them do it. And if she was to be believed, she'd done it voluntarily. The authorities took her at her word.
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Less than 10 days later, the FBI launched an investigation into the SLA and released a wanted poster with several of its members. Patty was on it. Shortly after the release of the wanted poster, the SLA moved their safe house to another neighborhood in San Francisco. Before long, they moved yet again to a safe house hundreds of miles away in South Los Angeles.
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Presenting "Crime House True Crime Stories": A Crime House Original
The LAPD didn't know the SLA was there until a few of them attracted some unwanted attention. In May 1974, about a month after the bank robbery, Patty went on a supply run with one of her kidnappers, Bill Harris, and his wife, Emily. Bill and Emily headed into a Mel's Sporting Goods store while Patty waited in the group's van.
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Presenting "Crime House True Crime Stories": A Crime House Original
Apparently, Bill and Emily tried to shoplift, or at least the store clerk thought they did, and chased them outside. Patty could see the confrontation from her vantage point in the van. She decided to help Bill and Emily out by grabbing a gun and firing 10 rounds into the storefront. The distraction worked. Amidst the chaos, Bill and Emily were able to get away and jump into the van.
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Presenting "Crime House True Crime Stories": A Crime House Original
If anyone still had hope that Patty was just playing along with the SLA, this incident all but squashed it. If Patty had let Bill and Emily be arrested, she would have become a free woman. She could have even made a run for it while they went into the store. Instead, she decided to prove her loyalty to the SLA, and now the authorities would definitely be after her.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
To find a sense of stability, a lot of people looked to spiritual gurus. With so much uncertainty in the world, it was reassuring to put your faith in someone who offered a sense of control over the chaos. But sometimes, that guidance turned out to be dangerous.
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Whether or not Charles' improved behavior was for real, he actually kept it up after his release. Now 19 years old, Charles moved to McMecan, West Virginia, bouncing between his family there. Charles was well-behaved. He got a job mucking out stables at a horse track and even met a girl, Rosalie Willis. They quickly started going steady, and on January 13, 1955, they got married.
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Charles and Rosalie settled into a comfortable life together. He made a few friends and even learned guitar. It wasn't long before Rosalie was expecting their first child. But adding to their family was expensive, and Charles was struggling to make ends meet. So he turned to what he did best, stealing. He mostly stole cars and sold them in other states.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
But the extra money wasn't enough to give Charles the life he wanted. By the summer of 1955, he'd had enough of West Virginia. He wanted to go west to California. His mother Kathleen had moved there, and Charles figured he and Rosalie could stay with her. So he stole another car, and they headed to Los Angeles to move in with Kathleen.
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Charles kept driving the vehicle around for months after their arrival, but in September 1955, a cop ran his plate and realized it was stolen. Charles was terrified of being locked up. The second he got the chance, he and Rosalie skipped town. They ended up in Indianapolis, where Rosalie gave birth to Charles Manson Jr. on April 10, 1956.
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But the new parents didn't have much time to enjoy their new baby. Just four days later, the cops caught up to them, and Charles was dragged back to California. And this time, there was no escaping.
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Many of those gurus were self-proclaimed, and oftentimes more interested in boosting their own fortunes than providing the support they promised. And when it came to these false prophets, none were more dangerous than Charles Manson. Charles promised his followers the world. As long as they did what he said, they'd be rewarded with eternal happiness beyond their wildest dreams.
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In April 1956, 21-year-old Charles Manson was arrested after trying to evade car theft charges. He was sentenced to three years at Terminal Island Penitentiary in San Pedro, California, just a few miles south of LA. Meanwhile, his wife Rosalie and their newborn baby returned to California and moved back in with Charles' mom so they could be nearby.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
At Terminal Island, Charles interacted with all sorts of convicts. Unlike his time at reform school, though, he didn't need to worry about asserting his dominance over them. If he didn't start any trouble, there wouldn't be any trouble. Instead, he decided to use his time to learn from his fellow convicts, specifically the pimps.
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They told Charles how they recruited vulnerable young women, then controlled them by separating them from their families. To make sure the women didn't try to leave, the pimps would give them just the right mixture of love bombing and fear. Most people would find that advice horrifying. Charles found it fascinating.
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Do you think there's actually some part of him that has a desire to be a twisted sort of provider for them?
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
But there were some things in life Charles couldn't control. At first, Rosalie would bring Charles Jr. with her to visit the prison every week. Then, about a year into Charles' sentence, she stopped showing up. Rosalie had met someone else and was moving on. In June 1957, she and Charles were officially divorced. After that, Rosalie and the baby were completely out of his life.
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Yeah, they had given Charles a sense of purpose. But now that they were gone, he needed to find a new direction in his life. It came in the form of a self-help guru named Dale Carnegie, the author of How to Win Friends and Influence People. Carnegie offered self-improvement classes at Terminal Island, and Charles was allowed to join one. He took to it like a fish to water.
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Carnegie's book contained advice that would become especially important to Charles. He specifically latched onto the phrase, quote, "...let the other fellow feel that the idea is his," end quote. The course seemed to spark new life in Charles. Like his final stint in reform school, he became a model inmate, and on September 30, 1958, he was released early for good behavior.
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His disciples were all too eager to obey. They followed his every order without question. even if it meant committing murder. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Once again, he had the opportunity to take his life in any direction. But he couldn't seem to hold down a job. He was too focused on trying to become a pimp. It didn't go well. After his release, he stayed in L.A. and managed to recruit a couple young women. But he didn't follow his prison mentor's advice because he let them stay in touch with their families.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Almost immediately, one of the women's fathers complained about Charles to the police. Charles managed to talk his way out of it, and it wasn't long before he found himself in more hot water. On May 1, 1959, 24-year-old Charles got caught after he stole a U.S. Treasury check from a mailbox and tried to cash it.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
He was only able to avoid jail time because one of his few remaining sex workers pretended to be pregnant with his child. And they convinced Charles' parole officer to intervene. Instead, he got a 10-year suspended sentence that let him remain a free man. But in what had now become a predictable pattern, Charles didn't use the opportunity to better his life.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Instead, he dug in further, continuing to work as a pimp and stealing cars. However, Charles wasn't exactly a criminal mastermind. It didn't take long for the authorities to catch on to him, and he was arrested barely a year after being released from Terminal Island. His suspended sentence was revoked, and he was sent to a prison off the coast of Washington state to serve out the rest of his time.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Thirteen months after his release from Terminal Island, 25-year-old Charles was arrested again.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Well, one thing was for sure. Charles treated this last incarceration as another learning opportunity. This time, he dove into the Church of Scientology, which had been founded just a few years earlier. But like the Dale Carnegie classes, Charles saw it less as an opportunity for self-improvement and more as a tool for manipulation.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
He thought he could use the tenets of Scientology to appeal to potential sex work recruits, but he also used his new religion to placate the prison's staff. They liked it when inmates showed a positive attitude and were encouraged by Charles' interest in Scientology. Around this time, Charles also became interested in a science fiction book called Stranger in a Strange Land.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
It's about a man raised on Mars who starts his own religion on Earth. The character also uses his mind to destroy his enemies, engages in group sex, and becomes an immortal spirit. These ideas, particularly the group sex, would become a major factor in Charles' ideology down the road.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
In addition to learning to manipulate people, Charles used his time in prison to rekindle the guitar hobby he'd started back in West Virginia. One of the prison's most notorious convicts, former outlaw Alvin Creepy Karpis, was also a talented musician, and he was happy to give Charles lessons, although he didn't think his new student was very good.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from This Week in History, check out CrimeHouse The Show.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
But the biggest musical influence on Charles during this time was the Beatles. After hearing them on the radio, Charles became obsessed with becoming a famous musician himself. Until now, music had always been a fun hobby.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Charles' obsession with music helped him stay out of trouble, though, and on March 21, 1967, he was released early. Left with nowhere to go, he called a former prisoner he'd been friendly with. He invited 32-year-old Charles to come stay with him in Berkeley, California, in the San Francisco Bay Area.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
As one of the hippie movement's hotspots, it was the ideal place for an aspiring musician like Charles to hone his craft. But to Charles Manson, the Bay Area must have seemed like another planet. Until this point, he'd spent over half his life, and almost all of his adult years, in some kind of correctional facility.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Now, he was set loose in the streets of Berkeley, the epicenter of the counterculture revolution that was sweeping the nation. It was home to people from all walks of life, from the Black Panthers to student protests at the University of California, to people just looking to express themselves freely. That included aspiring musicians like Charles, which presented a problem.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Every street corner was claimed, and every club was booked, so making a living playing guitar wasn't going to be easy. And Charles wasn't interested in working a typical blue-collar job in the meantime. He couldn't crash on his friend's couch forever, though, so if Charles was going to make his dreams come true, he needed to find somewhere to stay long-term that didn't require him to pay rent.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And thanks to what he'd learned in prison, he knew exactly how to do it. In March of 1967, 32-year-old Charles Manson arrived in Berkeley, California, with dreams of becoming a famous musician. But the reality of that dream quickly set in. If Charles was going to stick around, he needed somewhere to stay that wasn't a fellow ex-convict's couch.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And it wasn't long before he found the perfect opportunity. Shortly after arriving in Berkeley, Charles was on the University of California's campus when he noticed someone standing out in the crowd, a 23-year-old assistant librarian named Mary Brunner. Unlike most of the people in Berkeley, Mary was very conservative, and she dressed like it.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Charles sensed she was lonely in the sea of hippies, and they struck up a conversation. That was all Charles needed to sink his hooks into her. One of Charles Manson's enduring mysteries is how he convinced people to do such awful things for him. But when it came to Mary Brunner, all he had to do was be nice to her. He sang her some songs, complimented her dog, Thank you. Thank you.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And to enhance your killer mind's listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting CrimeHouse bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Murder: True Crime Stories
Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
This is the first of two episodes on Charles Manson. Some call him a cult leader. Some call him a serial killer. Some wonder if he can even be considered a killer at all. Because even though he went to prison for murder, Charles didn't deliver the fatal blow to any of his victims. His followers were his weapon of choice.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
By early 1968, there were almost 20 people in the Manson family. Money wasn't a huge concern for them, they had plenty of places to stay, and there were so many of them, they could scrounge up enough from panhandling to get by. With this many people at his disposal, Charles was more interested in using his followers to help him make connections.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
In today's episode, we'll dig into Charles' early life and the circumstances that led him to form the notorious Manson family cult. Next time, we'll follow Charles' desperate search for purpose, his descent into madness, and the tragic murders that still haunt society today. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
He liked to send the girls into the city to make friends with anyone who could introduce him to the right people. And sometime in the spring of 1968, it paid off when a couple of them befriended Dennis Wilson, the drummer of the Beach Boys. They introduced him to Charles, who wormed his way into Dennis' good graces.
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Within a few days, the entire Manson family was getting comfortable at Dennis' large estate on Sunset Boulevard. Dennis loved Charles. He wasn't interested in joining the family, but he was more than happy to introduce Charles to a few friends in the music business. One of them was a young producer named Terry Melcher. Terry was a verified hitmaker.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Signing with him was almost a guaranteed success. But even though Charles came highly recommended to Terry, he didn't just sign people as a favor, and Terry wasn't interested in Charles' music. Dennis Wilson wasn't much of a resource anymore, either. After a few months, he'd started to tire of the family's constant presence. What began as a fun novelty had become an exhausting chore.
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Charles was extremely demanding and too much to deal with. When Dennis' lease ended later that summer, he moved into a smaller place that couldn't accommodate the Manson family. Charles and his followers were back on their own, and his dreams of becoming a musician seemed farther away than ever.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Dr. Ankles, do people like Charles tend to make excuses in situations like this? Are they capable of introspection and really understanding why someone's upset with them?
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
However Charles felt about getting kicked out of Dennis' place, he was certainly adaptable. He moved the family into Spahn Ranch, an old Western movie set outside of L.A. that had fallen into disrepair. In exchange for helping fix up the place, the ranch's elderly owner let them stay in the various shacks around the property for free.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Away from the hustle and bustle of the city, Charles was able to reassert control over the family. Dennis Wilson's house had been full of distractions. Now that they were more isolated out in the country, he could strengthen the hypnotic hold he had over his followers. He wanted more than a family. He wanted a cult. Thanks so much for listening.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Come back next time for the conclusion of our series on Charles Manson and the terrifying murders he called Helter Skelter.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to CrimeHouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristan Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
From the moment he was born on November 12th, 1934, Charles Manson's life was driven by deception. His birth certificate listed Kathleen and William Manson as his parents. But for years, Charles had no idea that William wasn't his father. That honor most likely belonged to a con artist named Colonel Scott.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertsovsky, Sarah Camp, and Sheila Patterson. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was The Life and Times of Charles Manson by Jeff Gwynn. Thank you for listening.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Colonel was Scott's given first name, but if people assumed he was in the Army, he didn't bother correcting them. That's how he caught Kathleen Maddox's attention at a dance club in Ironton, Ohio. He was 23. She was just 15. Kathleen was charmed by the older man she assumed was a military officer.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
So when she discovered she was pregnant sometime in the spring of 1934, Kathleen had no reason to doubt the colonel when he said he was being called away on duty. He promised he'd be back as soon as he could, but she never heard from him again. After a few months, Kathleen finally realized she'd been duped, and now she needed to find someone to help raise her soon-to-be newborn baby.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
That's when William Manson, who worked for a dry cleaning business, entered the picture. It's not really clear how the two of them met, but by the time Charles was born on November 12th, 1934, Kathleen and William were married. However, it doesn't seem either of them was all that interested in parenting. William wasn't around much, and neither was Kathleen.
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Most days, she dropped Charles off with her mom so she could go out drinking with her brother.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
So even if Charles' grandmother was a nurturing guardian, what kind of impact does it have on a child when they can tell their parents aren't that interested in raising them?
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
With all this going on, it didn't take Kathleen and William long to realize they weren't right for each other. Within two and a half years, they were divorced. After that, Kathleen turned to petty crime to get by. And on August 1st, 1939, when Charles was almost five, she was arrested after an unsuccessful robbery.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Kathleen spent the next few years behind bars while young Charles was given to his aunt, uncle, and cousin who lived near the West Virginia prison where she was incarcerated.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Mm-hmm. And it was a strict household on top of that, and Charles was frequently punished for breaking the rules. And he didn't have it much easier at school. He was small for his age and prone to mischief. That meant he drew the attention of bullies and received discipline from his teachers. It was a lot for a young boy to handle on his own.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
So when Kathleen was released from prison in 1942, eight-year-old Charles was over the moon. But, after a short period of good behavior from both of them, things went south. Kathleen had a hard time staying on the straight and narrow, and Charles took his cues from her. He stopped going to school and started stealing from local shops.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
By the time Kathleen finally decided to get her life on track in 1943, she couldn't control her son anymore. In 1947, when Charles was 12, she sent him to a reform school in Terre Haute, Indiana called the Jebeau School for Boys. Predictably, things didn't go well. Within 10 months, Charles had run away multiple times.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
We all want a little guidance in our lives. Whether it's a longtime mentor, a favorite teacher, or maybe even your weekly astrology chart, it's nice to have someone or something to rely on for advice when things get tough. That was especially true in the 1960s and 70s during the counterculture era. It was a chaotic time dominated by the Vietnam War and the protests against it.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
He alternated between going back to his family and living on his own, stealing to get by. When he inevitably got caught, he was sent to even stricter institutions. In 1949, at 13 years old, Charles found himself at a place called the Indiana Boys' School. And that's when his life became a living hell.
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It wasn't like things had been easy until this point, but at the Indiana Boys School, things took a tragically dark turn. According to Charles, he was sexually assaulted by some of his fellow students. And to make a horrifying situation even worse, it was apparently encouraged by a staff member.
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Now, it is important to note that Charles Manson was a notorious liar. And as author Jeff Gwynn pointed out in The Life and Times of Charles Manson, it's possible he was not being entirely truthful about the situation. But based on his later actions, it does seem like Charles experienced some kind of sexual abuse at the Indiana boys' school.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
So it wasn't surprising that Charles constantly tried to run away, to the tune of 18 times over the course of three years. And in February 1951, when Charles was 16, he got away from the Indiana Boys School for good. He and a couple other kids stole a car and decided to take it for a multi-state joyride, which got him in trouble with the federal authorities.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
Instead of sending Charles back to Indiana, he was placed in the federal system, first at a facility called the National Training School in Washington, D.C., and then the Natural Bridge Honor Camp in Virginia. This time, he was the one attacking others. In January 1952, Charles was caught sexually assaulting another boy while holding a blade to his throat.
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Presenting "Killer Minds": A Crime House Original
After that, he was transferred to a high-security reform institution. With nowhere left to go, it seems like Charles realized he had to turn things around. Or at least pretend he did. He became such a model student that he was released early in 1954.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
The local law enforcement almost immediately decided that they had been swept to sea. That there was like a rogue wave that took them out to sea.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Essentially, the Coast Guard has said, and all my research into like wave and tidal patterns have said, like... It is very rare, almost unheard of, for two people to be swept to sea and then never seen again. Almost always what happens is tidal patterns are circular. So essentially they would have been swept out to sea, but then very shortly thereafter come back to shore.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
I've also been to this area on, I think, the week of the 20th anniversary of their disappearance at the same time they disappeared. And it's low tide. And where they were purported to be is like... quite high above the tide level. And there were tons of fishermen out there.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And all I could think is like, even if there was some rogue wave that was able to somehow at low tide drag them off an elevated viewpoint into the ocean, someone would have seen this happen because they both would scream and make noise and potentially get away or, you know, get back to shore.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And the fact that neither of their bodies were ever recovered, no one saw them go in, no one heard them go in. is unreasonable to me.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
When they disappeared from Depot Bay, Oregon, Keys was living in Neah Bay, Washington, which is essentially along the same highway, Route 101, and only, I think, like a seven hour drive.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
You know, for us, a seven-hour drive is quite long, but relatively speaking for him, it's nothing.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
They were slight, they were theater kids, you know, just walking out to go look at the ocean. But from Key's perspective would be very easy victims.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
What stood out to me is the pathway from their condo to this area is mostly along the highway, but there is one little area that is entirely shrouded from the parking lot, from the park and from the highway. And it's where you would enter or exit southbound from the park in a car. So that stood out to me because when I go to these places, I always have to think about the logistics.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Like, how could Keyes have done this? Like, where could he have done it where no one would have seen him? How would he have gotten back to his car? It's all kind of boring and tedious. But here it was like this stood out to me immediately. It's like, oh, this would make sense why no one saw them there that day because they never made it there.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Even though it's such a short span, he could have parked his car here and they could have come up and he could have grabbed them both.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Then, four days later... Jean's shoe is found on a nearby beach. And this is after it's in the press that they believe they had been swept out to sea. And I've seen pictures of the shoe. And again, like pictures will never do something justice, but it does not look like it's been in the water for days.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And she's exiting the outdoor bathroom and she encounters a young man who's asking a bunch of weird questions. Like, oh, what are you all doing here? Did someone go missing? What's going on? How long have you been searching? Have you found anything?
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And no one knows who Keyes is at the time, but she describes him as looking exactly like young Christian Longo, who had recently been arrested for killing his wife and kid. And if you look at pictures of Christian Longo at that time, he looks eerily like Israel Keyes.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
So it's not outside the realm of possibility that Keyes would A, return to this scene, but also B, ask a lot of questions to see if he could find out about the investigation, but also just to kind of like, I guess, taunt people. You know, he got off on emotional and psychological torture, so it would make sense to me that he would go down and just try to toy with people.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And we know that Keyes would look into disappearances and he would search area newspapers that would be covering those cases and look for missing person. And that's how he would read about his crime. So that's kind of the connection we have there. So again, a bunch of circumstantial evidence, but...
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
It's very clear to me and many professionals I've spoken to that they did not get swept away to sea. And so either they ran away, which everyone who knows them has said, like, there's no way, or they were abducted. And it just so happens that they almost identically match Keyes' account of abducting a couple. And there's, in fact, no one else who matches that account.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
We know that Cammy was wearing a bracelet when she disappeared. I have pictures of it. And so we are trying our best to match that up to pictures of jewelry found on Keyes' property in New York, as well as the house he shared with his ex-girlfriend in Alaska. But yeah, I think that's one of those where we're kind of at a dead end unless law enforcement decides that they want to play with us.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And they think that Keys makes the most sense. They haven't said this is what we think happens, but they've said, you know, this makes more sense than anything else we've heard.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Keyes talked about reading about his crimes and his victims, and he was often surprised at what law enforcement or the media determined or hypothesized had happened. What he specifically says is, oh, presumed boating accident, or, oh, presumed lost in the woods, or, oh, presumed lost at sea. And it's interesting that those were the three examples that he chose.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Keys, in the middle of the night, basically leaves a note saying, going to bury guns and disappears for three days.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Jimmy Tidwell was living in East Texas near the Louisiana border, and he was married to a woman named Carol. They had just bought this dilapidated house in the woods and he was fixing it up. By all accounts, it was a point of contention for the couple. It got bad enough that Carol moved in with her daughter.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
She didn't like being in this house because it gave her the creeps, but also she was a school bus driver and her daughter lived closer to her route. So it just made more sense. Jimmy worked for a manufacturing plant in Longview, Texas. What we know is he was at work. He worked the night shift and he was headed back home around 5 a.m.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
He had all of his gear, his hard hat, his protective goggles, all these things he was required to wear for his job. And that's the last anyone has seen him.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Carol's story changes a lot, which has made her, I think, a focus of people's attention. She was living there part-time. There was a lot of contention between the two, so I can understand how her memory is not great.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
What's compelling about this in terms of Keyes is, I would say out of all of the cases we've looked into, this has the most compelling circumstantial evidence. For starters, Keyes was in the area at the time. A Walmart receipt can place him about 20 miles away shortly after Tidwell is believed to have disappeared. Keyes bought a shovel, lubricant, and air freshener.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Where things get interesting is the day after Jimmy disappeared, Keyes set a house on fire and then robbed a bank. In the video of him at the bank robbery, he's wearing a hard hat and he has long, thin, stringy hair, which Keyes at the time had very short, thick, curly hair. When asked where he got the hair from, he said, human hair is very easy to find.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And then he said that he glued human hair inside this hard hat so it looked like he had longer hair. So Jimmy Tidwell's hard hat is never found. We know that Keyes took Samantha's hair. And, you know, again, this could be biased, but if you look at pictures of Jimmy Tidwell and you look at the hair in Keyes' helmet, it looks like the same hair. But again, like...
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
We know that Keyes often would burn buildings after crimes. Our opinion is to conceal evidence from the crimes. This was a not vacant, but I guess abandoned home, not far from the bank he robbed, but far enough that his excuse that he did it as a diversion didn't make any sense because it's about a 20 minute drive.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
They're in different jurisdictions, so it wouldn't be the same police responding to both events and the events occurred four hours apart. So it would be a very terrible diversion. So he can't really come up with a reason for why he burned this house, except that it just needed to burn. There's no evidence of remains, but I don't know that it was searched for remains at the time.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
She was a student at SUNY Albany. She had just transferred there. She'd been at another SUNY campus in New York. decided to switch to SUNY Albany. She grew up in Ballston Spa, which is outside of Saratoga Springs. And so she wanted to go back to the Albany area to be closer to her parents, but also to be closer to her boyfriend who was in the area.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
He did a heck of a job burning it. The house was completely destroyed. In fact, I went back two years ago and like the property 10 years later still smells like fire. There's so much circumstantial evidence. It lines up with a period where Keyes is missing. He told his mom he was stuck in the mud for three days. He had turned his phone off at the time. He stopped using his credit card at the time.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Jimmy disappears from an area he is in and would have reason to go back to because it's not far from where he knows his mother's about to move. Jimmy's hardhat disappears. Keys shows up with a hardhat in this bank robbery. So there's all that, and that was compelling enough. But then we were cataloging items seized from the Anchorage house Keys lived in when he was arrested.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And in it, there was a knife that had the name of a pipe fitting company based in Longview, Texas, a company that worked with the company that Jimmy Tidwell worked with.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
If you plot all of his travels on a map, along with all of his residences or familial residences, along with the name is 45, what happens is you see nine hotspots across the country where all of these places connect within 50 to 100 miles. And so you can target where he was likely committing his crimes.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
She was in a cemetery visiting her grandmother and she says Keyes came running from the woods and tried to grab her. She got away. But what's so interesting is it's this tiny town called Viter, Texas, also near Wells. Keyes would have been traveling from Houston to Lafayette, Louisiana around that time by himself or with his daughter, but no other adults.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And then I just, I don't know why, because it seemed like there was no way, but I looked to see if there were any missing persons cases on that day. And a man disappeared while camping in Vidor, Texas on that day.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
She was big into computers, loved writing poetry. She was really into horses. Even her mom said she was a little bit nerdy, but just a brilliant, really kind-hearted, thoughtful girl. Everyone I've talked to says she was just wise beyond her years, very mature, and just a very insightful, interrogating person.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
What's frustrating about Susie's case is we don't know where she was last seen. So she had been getting ready for midterms and so she wasn't really participating in any socializing.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
So she took the bus to her job at Cross Gates Mall and she got off and she walked out what is essentially an employee's only entrance and it leads into a loading bay, which is not super visible from the parking lot or the rest of the mall. And what she normally would have done is from there walk to the bus depot and take the bus back to her dorm.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
We know for sure she left work that day, and we know for sure she exited through the normal route. They have talked to the bus driver who drives that route, and they talked to a girl on her floor in the dorm, and they both believe they saw her that night.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
You know, we've talked a lot about this. She was part of their normal routines. So weeks later, if they're interviewed, it would be really challenging to say like, yes, on this night we saw her because they saw her most nights in this exact same manner.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
I went there recently with Chris Kunkel, and if she was abducted walking from the bus stop to her dorm, it would not have gone unnoticed. It's a very short distance. It's very open. It's basically a giant circular roundabout with a lawn in between and two, I think, 10 to 12 story dorms.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
so highly visible short distance it also echoes because you're in a quad so you're in between all these buildings and we tried to come up with a million different scenarios where she somehow gets abducted in this short distance with no one seeing and it just there nothing worked so it is of both of our opinions that she likely never made it onto the bus after work
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
The next day, her debit card is used. $20 is taken out of her account. It's used at a convenience store about a mile, mile and a half from her school. And they don't have an ATM camera, but they have a camera in the convenience store. And they find a man who was in there around the time the transaction happened. They call him the Nike guy because he was wearing a Nike hat.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
They track down Nike Man and they can rule him out. But they interview him and ask him if he saw anyone else in there at the time. And he said something to the effect of a tall white man dressed like a farmer. So that lead dies there. And so now they're focused solely on her boyfriend and his family. They can't rule them out, but they can't rule them in.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And then when there's all this debate about whether she was abducted from campus or the mall, her Babbage's ID badge is found on campus in a place that there's no reason for her to have been there. It's an area where, and this was in the press, her boyfriend's parents would pick her up. They would pick her up in that area as opposed to near her dorm.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
But as we know, she had no intent of going there because she was studying for her midterms and everyone agrees she took school very seriously and would not have strayed from that plan. And there's also no communication that indicates that the plan ever changed.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
So it's odd that her ID badge is found after multiple searches in an area that was searched, but in an area that she would not have gone that night. And that's kind of where, publicly at least, the investigation into Susie's disappearance ends. Where Keys comes into play is, you know, I had known about Susie's disappearance before I knew about Keys.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
There was a lot of media surrounding it, particularly at the 10 year anniversary. So when I get the Keys files and I go through the name as 45, I'm shocked to see Susie is on that list.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Then I start understanding Keys and, you know, Keys had never been looked at because no one could connect him to the area, but his cabin is just three hours from Albany. And at the time that Susie disappeared, he was living there full time by himself. So there's that. And then shortly after Susie disappeared, Keyes enlisted in the military.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
And that kind of mirrors what happened with the Deschutes girl as he commits this crime close to home, panics, and then leaves the area almost immediately. Then we start going through the FBI tips. And there's a very credible account of a woman who believes she encountered Keyes in a Marshall's parking lot as the Marshall's was closing. In 1998, Susie disappeared in 1998.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
She said she was walking out to her car. She'd parked far away from the store entrance in an unlit area. And when she got out there, there was a young man who looked to be in his late teens or early 20s. He was tall. Her description of him, which is apt and also hilarious, is that he looked like Beaker from the Muppets.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Like, does anyone know you're here? How old are you? And that's when she was like, old enough, leave me the fuck alone or something like that. And she said that it was only when she got aggressive with him that he kind of scampered off a little bit, but she could see him watching her as she got into her car and drove off.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
What's strange is these questions come up over and over and over again in Key's tips and encounters. He's in a parking lot or a cemetery in kind of the far end of it, and he approaches someone and starts asking weird questions like, would anyone know if you went missing today? Or if you didn't come home, would anyone notice? How old are you?
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
So there's that, which again, like doesn't add up to a lot. But then you look at the witness and she is an attorney. She has a lot to lose for making false reports to the FBI. She also is trained on remembering specifics and details. And unbeknownst to her, like Keyes was in the area at the time, Keyes was known to frequent mall parking lots.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
He's enlisted in the army directly across the street from Ms. Marshall's. So this is an area he knew well. It's in a hotspot. It's close to his house, but not so close that it's in his own backyard. And then around the same time, less than a mile away, Susie disappears from a mall parking lot or a campus parking lot.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
So that was kind of the most compelling evidence for me to take this seriously, in addition to her being on his computer. So then we started looking at more dates. We knew that for Keyes to enlist, he had to get his GED and get a social security card. He didn't get that because he was basically born off-grid. And from where he was living, he would have to do both of these things in Albany.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
It was the closest location for him to do that. So we don't know exact dates, but we do know that between at least October of 97 and July of 98, when he finally enlisted that he had to go to Albany at least three different times. And that location is, like I said, directly across from the Marshalls. And you can see SUNY campus from that location.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
There is also a Hertz rental car directly next to the enlistment office. And we know that he was renting cars at the time from Hertz.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Chris Kunkel, before Keys was on his radar, had always believed it was a serial killer. He just said it was too clean for it to be a first-time act. And then he found out from my show that Susie's name was on Keys' computer. And so we started talking and comparing notes. And I think our cases that it was Keys got stronger and stronger. There's also the computer element.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
Keyes was a computer video game guy. His cabin didn't have electricity, so in order for him to play video games or use a computer, he'd have to go to a store like Babbage's to do that. Susie, when she was at her previous SUNY campus, which was closer to Keyes' cabin, worked at a Babbage's there, also closer to Keyes' cabin. So again, there's a lot here that mirrors the crimes we know about.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
We've got the test ATM use. We've got a tall white guy who dresses like a farmer in that location at the time the card was used. That's how Keyes is often described. We've got Susie on his computer. We've got them both being into online communication. Her working at a store, which is one of few places Keyes would be able to actually access the internet at that time. So very compelling evidence.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
But then in subsequent interviews, they asked him the longest he ever went without killing someone. And he said, well, when I was in the army.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
He says he killed a male-female couple sometime after the military, but before 2005. He says that... The remains were never recovered. You didn't see a lot of press about them. And then he talked about details about the actual murder itself.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 3
What's interesting is... There's only one such occurrence of an unsolved missing male-female couple in Washington or its surrounding states between 2001 and 2005. And it's Jean Hyatt and Cami Volendroff.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Due to the nature of this case listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of death. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. For most of history, humans had no idea what caused the plagues that devastated our world. And while recent decades have brought new insights into what spreads disease, communities of yesteryear were left to wonder.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Mary still did not believe for one instant that she had anything to do with typhoid fever. For over a week, she anxiously awaited their response, asking day after day for their letter. She recognized the weight the word of a scientist could carry. A scientist's word in support of her might be her only way out. And then, finally, finally, the Ferguson laboratory wrote back.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
They had the results from her samples. The letter said, in no uncertain terms, that the laboratory had found absolutely no trace of typhoid fever whatsoever. Her pounding heart stopped for just one moment. The news brought tears to her eyes. She felt like a child, almost giddy with glee. Mary smiled to herself for the first time in what felt like months. She was right.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
She'd been right this whole time. She was going to get out of this prison of sickness. She had to. In 1908, after a year in forced captivity, Mary Mallon finally had a glimmer of hope. Another doctor, unassociated with the health department, tested her samples, and he found no trace of typhoid fever. Unfortunately for Mary, the samples she had sent on her own to be tested were deemed compromised.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
She hadn't collected and delivered them in a controlled way, and so the analyses from the Ferguson lab were dismissed out of hand as inconclusive. Freedom was not going to be easy. But Mary Mallon would not be swayed. She would not stop fighting for the freedom she felt was rightly hers. A more passive person might have been resigned to her fate. But not Mary.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
If science couldn't help her, then it was time to get the law involved. By 1909, Mary was able to secure the services of a New York lawyer, George Francis O'Neill. In June of that year, O'Neill filed a writ of habeas corpus. It was Mary Mallon's right as an American citizen, O'Neill argued, to be brought to court in order for a judge to rule on her detainment.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Without this court proceeding, Mary's captivity was unconstitutional. She was finally given her day in court in July 1909, but the judge was, unfortunately, unconvinced. They ruled against Mary Mallon's bid for freedom. So Mary was escorted out of the court, back onto the ferry, and back to her lonely cottage on North Brother Island. But not even a year later, everything started to change.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
And in 1907, typhoid fever was still a fairly common disease. 38-year-old Mary Mallon was lucky enough to have been healthy her whole life. Even as a child in Ireland, she'd managed to miss the worst of the Great Potato Famine. But now she was in New York City, working as a cook, and even though she frequently migrated between jobs, it seemed like illness followed Mary wherever she worked.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
In February 1910, a new health commissioner offered Mary another deal. She could be freed, but there were strings attached. First, Mary would have to sign an affidavit promising that she accepted the conditions of her release. She agreed. Second, she would have to be obsessively careful with her hygiene from now on, including consistently washing her hands. She agreed.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Thirdly, Mary Mallon could never cook again. This should have given Mary pause. Cooking was Mary's livelihood. Without it, how could she survive? The commissioner offered no further education or training to help her find another job. There was a half-hearted offer of working as a laundress, which wouldn't pay nearly as well. But Mary agreed. She signed the document.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
And with that, Mary Mallon was free. Then, as she often did, Mary disappeared. For over five years, Mary Mallon vanished from the public eye. She was nobody else's problem, and nobody else's problems were hers. Her companion, Mr. A. Brehoff, had died, so she moved to Corona, Queens. No one mentioned typhoid Mary until...
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
In 1915, sanitation expert George Soper reportedly received an urgent call from the chief physician of Sloan Maternity Hospital in New York City. The doctor was frantic. Suddenly and out of nowhere, his staff were getting sick. One by one, they were getting struck down, unable to work. In total, 25 doctors, nurses, and other workers had fallen ill. Even worse, two of them had died.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Suspicion had fallen on the hospital's cook, a middle-aged woman named Mary Brown. In a mockery of her and a news story from the last five years, some hospital staff had started calling her Typhoid Mary. Soper felt an ominous chill run up his spine. Was it a coincidence? Was Mary Brown just an innocent woman?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Or was she the alias of a criminal who'd been given a second chance, and then wantonly abandoned the agreement she made? Was Mary Mallon loose in the world, killing anew? Soper needed more information. He knew that he would recognize Mary Mallon's handwriting on site, so he asked for the hospital doctor to show him a sample.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
If Soper recognized the handwriting as that of Mary Mallon's, it would mean that Mary had broken her promise and started cooking again, already putting dozens of people in danger. And, most importantly, it would mean that the debate about Mary's culpability was settled. Regardless of what anyone had argued before, including Mary herself, Mary Mallon was a criminal.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Pairing the handwriting sample with a physical description of Mary Brown, Soper became certain that she and Mary Mallon were one and the same. In March of 1915, Mary was seized from her home and returned to North Brother Island. Health Commissioner S.S. Goldwater stated that Mary would "...never endanger public health again.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
She could not claim innocence," Soper declared, as she had "...willfully and deliberately taken desperate chances with human life." By now, Mary was 45 years old when she was brought for a second time to North Brother Island. There, she took up some of her old pursuits. For example, she could usually be found writing letters.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Without her former companion Mr. A. Brehoff as a correspondent, she most often wrote to those who she blamed for her isolation, including Josephine Baker. These letters were frequently menacing in tone, and some included outright threats of extreme violence. One physician in particular, she promised to murder upon her next release. But that release never came.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
For the next 23 years, Mary remained in isolation on North Brother Island. This time, though, Mary had some trappings of a normal life and some small freedoms. By 1918, she had started domestic work on the island and eventually took on work in a laboratory there. She was good friends with the doctors who ran the lab and seemed to actually enjoy the work.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
And something else had been following Mary Mallon, or should I say, someone. Earlier in the summer, Mary had been working for the wealthy Warren family at their summer home on Long Island. When multiple members of the household came down with typhoid fever, the Warrens hired sanitation expert George Soper to investigate.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
She also had her own side hustles, making beaded chokers and, very occasionally, cooking cakes. For fun, Mary was allowed to take shopping trips offshore as long as she remained cooperative, which she generally did. She likely took great pleasure in these outings, often dressing up and returning with gifts for her friends on the island.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
So, for 23 years, Mary worked, socialized, wrote, and kept herself amused on North Brother Island. By others' accounts, she might have experienced some degree of happiness in her decades of isolation. Then, on the morning of December 4, 1932, 63-year-old Mary Mallon did not show up to her laboratory station as usual.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
All her life, Mary had been a dependable worker, so it was with some concern that the head of the laboratory, a friend of Mary's, went to Mary's cottage to find her. The scientist immediately noticed that the cottage was in disarray, with foul smells percolating in every corner. She murmured slightly with disgust. Her friend was clearly not caring well for the place.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Then, she discovered what might have been her explanation. Mary Mallon lay slumped over in the middle of her floor. The scientist rushed Mary to Riverside Hospital, where she was given a bed in the children's ward. There, Mary Mallon spent the rest of her life. She died on November 11, 1938, at 69 years old. Throughout her slow decline, she remained in isolation on North Brother Island.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
A handful of her friends, along with their families, attended her funeral in the Bronx. Her estate paid for her headstone, whose epitaph can be read as a plea for mercy, something she received so little of during her life. Mary Malin's legacy amounts to more than typhoid fever. It carries a need for mercy and for compassion. And it carries with it a very heavy question. Why Mary Malin?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
In a 2019 research paper, philosophy professor Gabriel Andrade discusses an ethical quandary commonly known as the trolley problem and how it applies to the medical community. Simply put, the trolley problem asks how we place value on life. Should a trolley be allowed to run over two dozen people in order to save one person's life or vice versa?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Doctors and other professionals frequently find themselves in situations where knowing exactly what or whom to prioritize is not always clear. Mary's story echoes the trolley problem. From some perspectives, she can be seen as the one who was run over to save the many. But Mary was not the only one in her situation, unique as it may seem.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
During Mary's life, New York City health officials were dealing with thousands of healthy carriers of various deadly diseases. Many men, including some working in the food industry, were recognized to be, just like Mary Mallon, carriers of typhoid fever. But these men were treated quite differently. If they were isolated at all, their sentences were shorter.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
After all, typhoid fever was thought to be a disease of the poor and working class. The Warrens were neither. After putting the clues together, Soper zeroed in on the Warrens' cook, Mary Mallon. He traced back her work history and realized that almost every time Mary Mallon left another cooking job, it was right after an unexplained outbreak within the household of typhoid fever.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
One of them, a baker, was allowed to continue his trade despite the official's knowledge that his baking was transmitting typhoid to his customers. The difference between Mary and the baker? He had a family, for whom he was the sole provider. If he wasn't allowed to work, the ripple effect would be much greater. But the case of an unmarried, childless woman was a different one entirely.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Dealing with these questions of public health and individual liberty are difficult and complicated. Society is required to make hard choices. In the case of Mary Mallon, society took the easy way out. Thanks for tuning in to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We'll be back Monday with another episode.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
For more information on typhoid Mary Mallon, among the many sources we used, we found Typhoid Mary, Captive to the Public's Health by Judith Levitt, extremely helpful to our research. Stay safe out there.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
This episode was written by Emily Duggan, edited by Joel Callen, fact-checked by Anya Bayerly, researched by Mickey Taylor and Chelsea Wood, and sound designed by Kelly Gary, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Bruce Kitovich.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Our head of programming is Julian Boirot, our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Soper believed that Mary didn't actually know she was carrying typhoid. And how would she? Healthy carriers don't suffer the symptoms themselves. Fever, rash, headache, and diarrhea. Mary hadn't shown any of these symptoms in her whole life. She knew she had never herself had typhoid fever. And in 1907, no one had ever even heard the term asymptomatic carrier before.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
So it makes sense then that when Soper showed up at her home to tell her she was killing people with typhoid, she got more than a little defensive. In fact, when Soper accused her of leaving behind a trail of disease and death, Mary picked up a carving fork and went for him. This was definitely not a promising first encounter.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
George Soper was rattled, frightened, and thoroughly disenchanted with Mary Mallon. he acknowledged that he might not be the man for the job. Because capturing Mary Mallon might not be a man's job. Dr. S. Josephine Baker was all too familiar with sexism. She graduated from medical school at a time when less than 5% of practicing physicians were female.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
And it was Baker who was sent to Mary's home to try to complete the task that Soper had not been able to, get Mary to cooperate and provide samples for testing. On Baker's first attempt, Mary met her, as she did Soper, with unvarnished hostility and a slammed door in the face.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
But Baker had read Soper's initial report, so she was not surprised when Mary turned violent, and by their second encounter, she was ready to play defense. This time, Baker brought a handful of policemen with her. Unfortunately for her, this had no effect on Mary's willingness to brandish her usual weapon, the carving fork. Perhaps Baker felt some degree of empathy towards Mary Mallon.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Fortunately for Mary Mallon, a cook in the early 1900s, that ignorance was exactly what she needed to stay employed. Later shackled with the moniker Typhoid Mary, she was seemingly immune to the disease that ran rampant around her. What Mary didn't know was that she was the cause. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
She understood what it was like to be a woman in New York City in the early 1900s. But any empathy Baker felt towards Mary's plight could outweigh Baker's duty to her work. Breaking the detente, Baker dived at Mary Mallon. But Mary was faster. Carving forks still in her fist, she ran deeper into the house, disappearing into the darkness.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
By the time Baker recovered, Mary Mallon was absolutely nowhere to be found. Baker and her police escort began to comb the house. They threw open closet and wardrobe doors, overturned mattresses, and upended tables and chairs. Through the chaos and clatter, Baker questioned the other women in the house. Tell them where Mary was hiding.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
In solidarity with their fellow worker, the servants didn't say a word. They had never even heard of Mary Mallon, some claimed. Baker and the police tore the house apart, but for five fruitless hours, all their search came to nothing. until finally one of the policemen found Mary concealed in a closet behind a pile of ash cans.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
As he tried to pull her out from behind them, she leapt at him, all the while kicking, screaming, and swearing. After a prolonged scuffle, he managed to take hold of her. Mary Mallon was forcibly dragged through room after room, out the front door, along the front walk, and into a waiting ambulance.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
And even once she was inside the ambulance, Mary did everything she could to fight off the policemen, clawing her hands and swinging her feet at them. It wasn't until Josephine Baker sat herself directly on top of the still wildly belligerent cook that Mary Mallon finally subdued. In their own opinion, George Soper and S. Josephine Baker were bringing justice to the world.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
They were helping keep New York safe. But justice was not on the menu for Mary Mallon. Only persecution. After a five-hour manhunt, 38-year-old Mary Mallon was captured and transported to Willard Parker Hospital in New York City. While it might seem extreme to arrest someone for being an unknown carrier of a disease, in 1907 it was definitely an available option.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
In order to stop them from spreading illness, carriers were routinely separated from all they knew. They were plucked from their jobs and homes, taken from their families and friends, disbarred from streets, shops, and society, and relocated to remote isolation hospitals. Their consent was not required.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
As far as public health officials were concerned, it was a case of one group's needs outweighing the other. Mary's need for social contact, stability, and overall happiness was outweighed by the public's need for safety. Most quarantined individuals were viewed as unworthy of human compassion. They were seen only as the disease they carried. That was certainly how Mary's accusers saw her.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Once at the hospital, they got their samples of her blood and feces. When they came back positive for the bacteria that causes typhoid fever, George Soper was vindicated. Mary Mallon was exactly what he accused her of being. She was Typhoid Mary. Before she had time to process what was going on, Mary was led onto a ferry in the East River, its lone passenger besides the captain.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
The small boat moved steadily through the water towards its destination, a place Mary had never seen before but was aware of because of a recent shipwreck. North Brother Island was reasonably famous after over a thousand passengers drowned off its coast. Needless to say, her associations with the island were not positive.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
But as she traveled on that ferry, she stared determinedly at the small island. She felt neither hope nor defeat. The facility on North Brother Island primarily serviced tuberculosis patients. To avoid exposure from those patients, Mary was to be housed alone in a one-room cottage on the grounds.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
The room was quite small, about 20 by 20 feet in dimension, with a bathroom and small kitchen attached on the back of the building. The closest building nearby was a chapel, and both structures stood at some distance from the hospital and its other captives. A solitary elm tree was stationed by the front door like a sentinel. From the start, Mary did not take well to her isolation.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
A few days into her confinement, Mary's left eye began to twitch. She asked for a doctor, but none would see her. and the condition persisted. For months after, that left eye was a continual bother, to the point where she covered it with her hand by day and bandaged it by night. But to her mounting frustration, no doctor on the island gave her the time of day.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. If you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Today is our final episode on Mary Mallon, the New York cook whose wealthy employers were infected with typhoid from eating her meals.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Eventually, though, her eye, quote, "...got better in spite of the medical staff." The involuntary twitching of Mary's eye was probably a psychosomatic response to what she called her grief at being imprisoned. But she got no real answers about it. The doctors who did see her were only concerned with testing her for typhoid. All they cared about was collecting their samples.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Mary felt totally dehumanized, reduced to nothing but the waste she produced. For well over two years, Mary's said to have lived a simple, lonely life in that small, one-room cottage. For company, she was given a small fox terrier, whom she came to love. How much Mary was able to interact with other inhabitants of North Brother Island, including sharing meals with them, is unclear.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Some reports indicate that she moved freely about the island, and that she might have even actually been cooking for some of the hospital staff. But by most accounts, Mary Mallon was often entirely alone. In handwritten letters and interviews with reporters, Mary describes a sense of rejection and stigmatization at the hands of the island's employees.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Just as she had been neglected by the doctors regarding her eye, even the nurse who brought her her daily meals wasn't interested in interacting. In Mary's account, the nurse would approach her small door, shove Mary's meal hurriedly beneath it, and then quickly run away. It was overall a lonely little life. And Mary wasn't having it at all.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
In April 1908, Mary's friend and former housemate named A. Brehoff was trying his best to support her efforts for freedom. Over time, Brehoff got one doctor to admit that Mary's captivity was inconveniently expensive. This seemed to imply that there might be some financial advantage to the Board of Health to let her go.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
But the doctor who gave that opinion was powerless before the board's authority and dubious about his capacity for, or even interest in, convincing them otherwise. However, the next doctor that Brehoff consulted had a brand new bargaining chip in the case of Mary Mallon. Sitting down with Brehoff, he explained a rather recent scientific discovery.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
It appeared that the human gallbladder had a thing or two to do with typhoid fever. Most of the bacteria associated with the disease could be found there. So, if Brehoff could get Mary to consent to having her gallbladder removed entirely, she would stand a much better chance of arguing successfully for her release. The doctor promised the services of the best surgeon in town.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Brehoff passed this on to Mary with some degree of hopefulness. Here might be a way out, he suggested. Without a moment's pause, Mary shot it down. Not only did she not trust any doctors, but she still fundamentally believed that she did not carry typhoid fever. So she saw the procedure as useless and dangerous. At the time, surgeries like this one carried a significant risk to the patient.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
We'll follow the heated investigation that led to Mary's forced isolation and her feverish attempts to escape it. Stay with us. Various disease epidemics rocked the United States in the 1800s, and New York City in particular was a hotbed for infection. With so many people crowded in unsanitary living conditions, disease often prowled through the city's poor communities.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Mary was so distrustful of the doctors on Brother Island that she half expected them to knock her out with ether and take out her gallbladder anyway, even if she said no. As reports of Mary's fate reached newspapers, some sided with the patient, some with public health.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
A few newspapers sensationalized her story out of proportion, and some skipped over some of the most basic facts to twist the narrative. Some called her by the name her mother had given her, others only as Typhoid Mary. But even the brief recognition of her plight by the public didn't offer Mary comfort. Nor did it nudge her towards acceptance of her situation.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
If anything, her fame hardened her resolve to get out of isolation. She told reporters that in her imprisonment, she'd been treated worse than an actual murderer, who would have at least had their day in court. Mary had been given no due process and no justice. She bristled at the fact that George Soper's investigative reporting always left out a family in the Bronx she'd cooked for.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
None of them had gotten sick, but they didn't matter because they weren't as wealthy as someone like the Warrens. After a little over a year in confinement, Mary Mallon was determined to fight back. She demanded her life back. At first, Mary played it cool, pretending nothing unusual was going on.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Over the course of several days, she continued to dutifully provide the island's doctors with samples of her feces and urine. But on these particular days, Mary hung on to what we'll call the leftovers. She hid them from the doctors, and with the help of her friend, Mr. A. Brehoff, she mailed the samples to a man named George Ferguson.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 2
Ferguson was a professor at the New York School of Pharmacy, and he owned and operated his own scientific research laboratory. Mary hoped that the tests done at Ferguson might run contrary to what the doctors were claiming about her on North Brother Island. More than hoped, she fully expected them to proclaim her innocence.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Due to the nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of rape, torture, kidnapping, murder and suicide. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. If you or someone you know is feeling hopeless or struggling emotionally, visit Spotify.com slash resources for help.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel makes use of the knots he learned growing up, building rafts and bridges in the woods alone. But he doesn't, as he puts it, take it to the next level. He's too disarmed by the girl's behavior.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
The girl talks to Israel. She asks him questions like where he's from, tells him he's good looking. She says she may have even gone out with him if he asked. She tells him her name, humanizes herself.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
After about 30 minutes to an hour, Israel brings her back to the river. She gets back into her tube and heads back to her friends.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
After the assault, Israel gets paranoid about getting caught. He checks the news often to see if there are reports. If there are any, he doesn't see them.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel learns two things from his experience that day on the Deschutes River. First, he's not that into Satanism. For starters, bloodletting isn't practical. It leaves behind too much DNA. Strangling is cleaner. That and a belief in Satan by default kind of requires a belief in the devil's counterpart, God. And Israel just can't get down with that.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He's done attempting to give his violent urges any rationale or meaning.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel developed a travel habit. He often left for days or weeks at a time. He'd tell his parents he was visiting friends or family and go on long drives or hop on a plane. His last girlfriend traveled a lot for work, so he sometimes made use of her miles. He went to great lengths to hide his tracks.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Over the course of six months in 2012, Israel Keyes sits down with the FBI about 20 times. Their recorded interviews produce between 40 to 50 hours of tape. After confessing to Samantha Koenig's murder, Israel begins toying with investigators. He says he has more stories to tell and more cards to play.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He'd book a flight to one city, then rent a car and drive for miles off into another state, another jurisdiction. He'd turn off his phone for extended periods of time by taking it apart and removing the battery so he couldn't be traced. He'd use cash as often as possible and paper maps so he didn't have to connect to GPS.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
For accommodations, he might book more than one hotel and only use one or check himself into multiple hotels at the same time. He'd sometimes book a stay for three days and then leave after two. And if he ever wanted to, he was comfortable living off-grid in the woods. One time, he filed for two fishing permits on the same day, one in Wyoming, one in Alaska.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
And for all we know, he didn't use either. It's hard to know how often Israel left home. Here's Josh again.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
The FBI believes it's possible Israel may have gone so far as to abduct victims in one state, kill them in another, and dispose of their body in a third. And his travels weren't limited to the states. They found evidence he took trips to Canada, Mexico, and Belize as well.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He may or may not have killed every time, but to make it easier for himself when the moment arose, Israel buried kill kits or caches all over the country near areas he frequented. He filled them with things he'd need. Guns, knives, zip ties. Storing them meant putting time between their dates of purchase and the actual crime. He could dig them up whenever he needed.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
But the kill kits acted as more than just pre-crime prep. Josh says they also acted as a post-crime receptacle. Israel would move weapons from one kit to another after using them, presumably transporting them to a new state or jurisdiction. He'd store cash he stole from homes and maybe hid disguises in them as well.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Josh spoke with experts who believe Israel likely returned to these kits to relive his crimes. So much of Israel's life prepared him to be a killer. His childhood living off-grid taught him self-reliance, how to tie knots, how to hunt for food.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
His work in construction meant he could purchase a tarp and chainsaw without raising eyebrows.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
In the military, his peers referred to him as a super soldier. He almost joined the elite army rangers. He could make his own silencers, was adept at camouflage, and knew how to use scopes and infrared sights. Josh discusses Israel's time in the military.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He even built moving targets in the woods so he could practice shooting. And yet, even with all his firearm training.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
That, and he always brought one with him while robbing banks. The fact that Israel Keyes was a burglar, bank robber, and an arsonist, in addition to a serial killer, is often treated as a footnote in stories. The FBI says Keyes admitted to burglarizing between 20 to 30 homes across America, and his arsons and bank heists may have been directly linked to his murders.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
But in all their time together, Israel only gives officials the names of two other victims, a married couple named Lorraine and Bill Currier from Vermont.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
The arsons, presumably to destroy evidence and burn remains. The bank robberies, to fund his life and travels. and also because it felt good.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
The FBI has officially connected Israel to two bank robberies, one in Tupper Lake, New York in 2009, and another in Azle, Texas in 2012, shortly after murdering Samantha Koenig. But they believe he was responsible for many more. The exact number? No one knows for sure. Israel says it was less than a dozen banks. He quotes a similar number of murder victims.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
This is Special Agent Jolene Godin, one of the investigators present during his interviews.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
But there's no way to know for sure. Israel could have been toying with investigators or outright lying. He's certainly never straightforward in the interviews. They can be incredibly frustrating to listen to. We mentioned in our last episode that Israel originally told FBI agents he wanted the death penalty taken off the table. But at some point, he does a 180.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
You'll remember Josh Hallmark from our last episode. He's been reporting on Israel Keys for more than a decade.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
It's hard to reconcile that statement with everything else we know about Israel, how he treated other daughters and sons. It's the kind of statement that doesn't fit neatly into our perception of serial killers. There's empathy, concern, maybe some shame as well, which is perhaps fitting because Israel, based on everything we know about his crimes, worked tirelessly to sidestep expectations.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
In addition to studying other serial killers, he watched a lot of CSI and criminal minds. He read books by famous FBI profilers like Mindhunter by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker. He studied his opposition, the people who'd one day try to put him behind bars, how they worked, what they thought of people like him.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
And he used that to mold himself into something both old and new, something unexpected. Maureen Callahan, the author of American Predator, said that Israel had an unprecedented M.O. with zero victim profile and a mode of travel that rendered him undetectable. But so much of what we know about Israel Keyes and his crimes comes from his own words. and his words don't always match his actions.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
The same Israel who asks to be executed, who acts unfazed by his capture, tries to take matters into his own hands in May 2012.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
That clip comes courtesy of KTUU-TV. It was recorded at a hearing for the abduction and killing of Samantha Koenig. Israel attempts to escape the courtroom. He somehow breaks out of his leg irons and tries to jump over the partition behind him. Security has to stop him with a stun gun.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
And as much as Israel tries to present himself as an opportunistic killer who chooses his victims at random in the moment, Josh believes there's maybe more to the story.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Josh says particularly with Samantha Koenig. We mentioned in our last episode, Samantha hadn't always worked at a coffee stand.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
It's important because, according to Josh, Israel was a huge Minnesota Vikings fan.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Maybe there's more to his victimology. I may not be a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but Josh has spoken to a few in his research.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
As for what exactly Israel wanted to protect his daughter from, we can only guess.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
It's hard to know if Israel wanted to protect his daughter from the other half of his double life, or if he wanted to protect his legacy from the acts he found shameful and embarrassing. Were his demands selfless or selfish? Similar questions come up with the relationships in his life. Were any of them loving and genuine, or were they all just convenient?
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
That is until one day they disappeared from their home in Essex.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Josh talks a lot about duality on his podcast, True Crime Bullshit. He named his studio Both And.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
If you read the coverage surrounding Israel Keyes, his reputation can feel sensationalized, or at the very least, a step removed from nuanced. He's been called the sui generis serial killer of the 21st century, AKA in a class of his own. Headlines call him a monster, vile, unhinged, the most terrifying serial killer you've never heard of, and most of all, meticulous.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
But again, while all those things are true, it's not the whole story.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel said he learned not to commit crimes too close to home, but he abducted Samantha just two miles away from his house in Alaska, then killed her in a shed on his property. The Currier's home was only about 40 miles from a cabin he owned. He made mistakes. He left behind evidence. He hired sex workers, got caught sending messages to men online. He kept tabs on his victims' cases.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He even left comments on websites discussing their disappearances, writing them under the username Israel.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Josh says that when we call people monsters, we can give them too much power. Israel Keyes was a man capable of monstrous actions. It's both true that he got lucky from time to time and that we're lucky he got caught.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Shortly after midnight on June 9th, 2011, Israel walks from his hotel room down the road through the dark. According to Israel, he's looking for the right home. Josh says specifically a one-story house with a garage attached. No signs of kids or a dog. That's how he ends up at the courier's place. They just so happen to fit the bill.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
At some point during his interviews, Israel learns his name has ended up in the media, connected to the courier's disappearance. He begins stonewalling investigators. He discusses other victims, but only in vague terms. He might mention a state like New York or Washington, but little else. That behavior pretty much continues for the remainder of their interviews.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
And unfortunately for the rest of his victims and their families, Israel's apparent need for control leads to an unexpected ending. Sometime before December 2nd, 2012, while in his prison cell, Israel paints 11 identical satanic skulls on 11 sheets of paper using his own blood.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
On December 2nd, 2012, prison guards find Israel dead in his cell. He'd somehow gotten his hands on a razor blade. He leaves behind a strange rambling note.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Since Israel's death, the FBI has slowed down their investigation into his victims, focusing on more pressing cases. But Josh hasn't stopped investigating. He's been working to bring closure to as many cases as he can, with the help of many others, including Bobby Chacon, one of the officers who helped retrieve Samantha Koenig's remains in Alaska.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
And while the FBI thinks Israel is responsible for 11 murders, Josh believes the number is higher.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
This is Israel Keyes talking about his final year of freedom.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
There's that number again. Remember? It's how we started the last episode.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
It's an oddly specific number, not an estimate you'd expect like 15 or round like 10. So what happened right before Israel Key's life split in two?
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He cuts their phone line and then waits in their backyard for the right moment to strike. There's a neighbor next door who keeps going outside to smoke cigarettes, triggering an automatic light sensor. Israel smokes cigars as he waits for the neighbor to go to bed, which finally happens around 2 a.m. Israel's dressed in all black. He wears a headlamp, leather gloves, and a backpack.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
If you go back in time exactly 14 years before he makes that comment, to the month a young woman named Suzanne Lyle disappears. Thanks for listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We'll be back Monday with our third episode on Israel Keys. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. And we'd love to hear from you.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Once again, we'd like to give a special thanks to Josh Hallmark for lending his expertise to today's story. You can check out True Crime Bullshit, Josh's investigation into Israel Keyes, which is going into its sixth season, as well as Josh's other podcasts from Studio Both And on Spotify or wherever else you listen.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Stay safe out there. Serial Killers is a Spotify podcast. This episode was written by Connor Sampson, researched, edited, and produced by Connor Sampson and Chelsea Wood, fact-checked by Laurie Siegel, and sound designed by Alex Button. Our head of programming is Julian Boirot. Our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He ties a cloth to hide the lower part of his face, then begins what he calls a blitz attack.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
When he turns on his headlamp, he's standing in their kitchen. He races down a hallway, past a birdcage with a cover on it, into Bill and Lorraine's bedroom.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel says it only takes a matter of seconds. By the time he's finished, Bill and Lorraine are still waking up, still adjusting to their new reality, that there's a tall, masked intruder in their house pointing a gun in their direction. Israel asks the couriers if they own a firearm. Lorraine says, yes, there's a loaded handgun in her nightstand.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He takes it and orders Bill and Lorraine to get on their stomachs. He asks them what else they have in the house, things he wants. He grabs two suitcases and fills them with prescription drugs, jewelry, the courier's ATM cards. He etches their pin number into the back of their cards so he can remember them later. At some point, Lorraine tries to run away by rolling herself off the bed.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
It makes Israel upset. They're not taking him seriously.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel recognizes a military insignia Bill has in his home, evidence that Bill served in the same unit as Israel, the 25th Infantry Division. Israel lets Bill know he's a military man too. After about 15 minutes go by, Israel has the couriers put on slippers. He doesn't want them stepping on broken glass and leaving a trail of blood through the house.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
On the drive over, Bill and Lorraine tried to reason with Israel.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
They tell Israel he can take what little they have if he just lets them go. Their car, savings, all of it. And they won't tell anyone either. They won't call the police. Bill, they explain, has medications he needs to take. Israel tells them not to worry. He's abducting them for ransom. He's bringing them to a drop house where some accomplices are waiting. They won't be hurt if they cooperate.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
That's Israel Keys speaking with the FBI in April 2012. More than a decade later, we still don't know how many dots there are. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. And we'd love to hear from you.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
They arrive at the farmhouse around 4 a.m., passing a police car parked about 100 feet away. There's a for sale sign in the front yard. The house is set back from the road on a hill, partially hidden by a tree. It's old and run down. A large hole runs through the roof and second floor, allowing moonlight into the living room. The walls are maybe stucco or plaster, covered in dated wallpaper.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
There's not much by way of furniture, an old three-cushion couch, a couple of bare mattresses on bed frames. In addition to Lorraine and Bill, Israel brings a propane stove to the house.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He tackles her to the ground and drags her back to the farmhouse. The escape attempt makes him mad.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Things turn physical as Bill fights back. Bill actually manages to shove Israel a bit, and Israel's not sure how to handle it. As Israel tells the FBI, he had a very specific idea of how the night was supposed to go, and Bill was ruining it. Israel has to bludgeon Bill with a shovel more than once to knock him down.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
with a 10-round magazine. The bullets hit Bill in his arm, chest, neck, and head, but he's still standing afterward. Israel says he's never seen anything like it. Then he watches Bill fall to the ground, dead.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He strangles Lorraine with a rope, his preferred method of killing. But before he does, he brings her downstairs so she can see her husband's grisly murder scene. Israel pours Drano over their hands and faces, puts them in trash bags, and leaves them in a corner of the basement. He'd planned to burn the house down using the propane stove he brought, but there's no time. The sun's already up.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
So he takes what he can, forgetting the ammo shells on the floor, and drives away. He leaves their car, a green Saturn, in a parking lot about a mile from their home. He parks away from any surveillance cameras, walks to his own car, and leaves the state. Israel says the whole night, from start to finish, is over in about six hours.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
In his interviews, Israel talks about the courier's murders in graphic detail. You can hear the tape in Josh's podcast, True Crime Bullshit. It's chilling to listen to. Josh describes Israel's demeanor during the confession.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel tells the FBI about the courier's murders because, in his mind, they're going to connect the dots anyway. He made mistakes. He didn't burn the house down with their bodies in it. He left behind pools of Bill's blood, as well as those ammo shells. If he's going down, he might as well get something out of it. In exchange for his confession, FBI agents give Israel a cigar to smoke.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. This is part two of our three-part series on Israel Keyes. Last time, Israel was arrested for the abduction and murder of Samantha Koenig. He's now in FBI custody, and he has a lot more to say. Stay with us.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
From his behavior, it's clear Israel still feels in control.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Despite the mistakes Israel made with the couriers, their case hasn't quite been resolved in the way you might expect. No one, it seems, entered the abandoned farmhouse after that night. By the time the FBI arrived, it had been demolished.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
They remember the smell distinctly, but it wouldn't have been unusual for a small injured animal to wander inside and die.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
The FBI is confident Israel was responsible for their deaths.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel was wrong. The FBI might never have connected him to the Currier's murders if he didn't confess. And once that realization sinks in, Israel becomes less willing to talk. He only discusses a handful of his other crimes in any detail. He stops short of discussing any more killings. But the FBI baits him with more presence.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
like candy bars, Americanos, access to the internet, and, according to Maureen Callahan, the author of American Predator, a subscription to the New York Times delivered to his cell daily. In July 2012, after a few months spent in the Alaskan penitentiary, Israel opens up about his first ever attempted murder. He was living in Maupin, Oregon at the time, and so was his family.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He was 18 or 19 and grappling with violent urges and existential thoughts. He wasn't connecting with his family's religious practices. Given his inner demons, what he'd later call his black heart, he thought he might identify with Satanism. He'd eventually go so far as to brand an upside-down cross on his chest and tattoo a pentagram on the back of his neck.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
But that summer, he selects a location along the Deschutes River for his first-ever satanic ritual.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Israel knows that area of Oregon well. His family visits the river often. He staked out the bathroom ahead of time. On this particular day, he sees a young girl playing in the river, trailing behind her friends. Israel hides in some bushes near a bend. Once the girl's friends turn the corner and disappear from sight, he leaps out and grabs her. The girl's white, dirty blonde.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
Before we get into this story, amongst the many sources we used, we found the book American Predator by Maureen Callahan and our interview with Josh Hallmark, host of True Crime Bullshit, extremely helpful to our research. The audiobook edition of American Predator is available for Spotify Premium subscribers in our audiobook catalog, where you can check it out after listening to this episode.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 2
He thinks anywhere from 14 to 18. He tells the FBI he had everything planned out. He brings ropes and knives. He says he was really into knives at the time.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Due to the nature of this case, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of death. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. What if it felt like the whole world was against you? Total strangers accused you of terrible crimes. The media called you a menace to society or even a murderer. Mary Mallon was a professional cook.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
The children, already drawn to Mary's jolly demeanor, simply adored their cook, almost as much as they loved her desserts. But this was actually quite a peaceful time for Mary. Surely the grim specter of typhoid fever was finished with her. She began to feel little of that hope she had discovered when she first started doing the work she loved.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
But regardless of whether typhoid was finished with her, it was just getting started with the Warrens. To Mary's dismay, by the end of that summer, six members of the household had come down with typhoid fever. By now, it's clear to us that a dark shadow is following Mary Mallon. We can see its sickly fingers threading these segments of her life together and slowly, slowly tightening the knot.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Mary could see it too, couldn't she? Or was Mary the one pulling the strings? By 1906, 37-year-old Mary Mallon had infected some two dozen New Yorkers with typhoid fever. And as that number grew, this lethal trend got harder and harder to ignore. See, Mary worked as a cook in the summer homes of New York City's most elite families.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
But at the time, typhoid was still considered by many to be a working-class disease. So why was typhoid suddenly surging among these well-to-do families? Unsettled, they started asking questions. And a man named George Soper was going to find the answers. Soper was a sanitation engineer, a man of science.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
After their typhoid outbreak, the Warren family commissioned him to investigate what could have possibly gone wrong. In 1907, so-called germ theory was a relatively new concept to science. But new though it was, it provided scientists with both confidence and relief.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
A growing amount of evidence supported their work, and they were relieved to have something to blame for many of the epidemics ravaging the world in recent memory. The discovery of tiny organisms called microbes gave scientists a culprit they could see, touch, and name. However, despite the optimism germ theory inspired, it was still a surprising idea.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Before microbes, scientists most often traced diseases to polluted air called miasmas. Bad air was how your average American citizen would say most people got sick. At that time, routine handwashing hadn't yet come into vogue, even after using the bathroom. There was only so much soap and water could do to defend against those miasmas that most people thought caused sickness.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
So why waste your time with it? In 1907, the average American had probably not yet heard of germ theory. And if they had heard of it, they might find this new information so surprising, they just might start to think it was a little… unbelievable. But George Soper certainly believed in germ theory. He trusted science.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
And he believed that, with the help of modern science, he could solve this typhoid mystery. Soper learned that the Warrens had changed cooks just before the outbreak, and that cook, Mary Mallon, had vanished shortly after. He took it upon himself to see if she'd worked anywhere else in the area.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
When he found out she had, and that these disappearances had become something of a pattern, he began to suspect what was going on. In George Soper's understanding of the matter, Mary Mallon was a kind of scientific phenomenon that health experts were only just beginning to understand in 1907. Soper discovered that Mary Mallon had never had typhoid herself, but was linked to several outbreaks.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
He suspected her of being an otherwise healthy carrier of the disease. A carrier is able to pass an illness to other people without suffering from its symptoms herself. Because they aren't sick themselves, carriers go about their normal lives without realizing that they're making other people ill. In some cases, they infect complete strangers.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
If Mary was a carrier of typhoid fever, and Soper was pretty sure that she was, then he needed to know everything about her. Where she went, who she saw there, she had to be watched. Because wherever she went, Mary Mallon had the potential to infect anyone. And it was up to George Soper to protect the public by any means necessary.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
A blight or sickness targeted potato crops and had devastated the Irish farmlands. Even more devastating was the fact that potatoes at the time were the main staple of every good Irishman and woman's diet. Thousands upon thousands of Irish citizens died during the famine, to either malnutrition, starvation, or one of many diseases ravaging the country.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
In George Soper's view, Mary Mellon was not necessarily an evil woman, but she was careless and uneducated. She just needed someone to show her the error of her ways. Once Soper explained things to her, he was certain that she would wise up and stop spreading the disease.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Doggedly, Soper traveled across New York City, Long Island, and the North Atlantic to dig up as much information about Mary Mallon as possible. He wanted to be sure he was right about her. As he talked to family after family, he painted for himself a clearer and clearer picture of Mary's role in these typhoid outbreaks. he became more and more sure that he was on the right track.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
And not only was he on the right track, but he was doing the right thing. He was going to save countless lives. But as a man of laboratory science, he knew what he had to do. Up until this point, all he had was correlation, speculation, and hearsay. What George Soper needed was proof. In March of 1907, fueled by his research, Soper went to confront Mary Mallon.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
38-year-old Mary did not realize it then, but as she opened the door to George Soper, a larger, metaphorical door in her life slammed shut. In public reports following his first encounter with Mary Mallon, George Soper expressed surprise and disappointment. Particularly, he was discouraged by her lack of womanly niceties. He thought she was too rough around the edges to be respectable.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
From the moment George Soper walked into her kitchen, Mary was on guard. She eyed him with suspicion, asking him what he was doing there. Mary's terse words and narrowed eyes told George Soper to get right to the point. So he did.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Speaking plainly, he told her that the Warrens had hired him to figure out what exactly had caused the typhoid outbreak in their summer home, and Soper had determined Mary Mallon was to blame. Mary was aghast. She'd never had typhoid in her life. But Soper assured her she was a carrier of a deadly disease. It was the only explanation. Mary's whole body went cold.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
For just a moment, her vision blurred. The only way she knew she was still alive and standing there was the sound of her heart battering away in her throat. That's why Typhoid followed her like a shadow? It had been her fault the whole time? It couldn't be, she thought to herself, terrified and bemused. Then her expression hardened. Her vision cleared. No, it definitely couldn't be.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
George Soper had to be wrong. But before she could speak up in protest, Soper added insult to injury. He needed definitive proof so the New York Health Department could take proper steps. To complete his investigation, Soper required her cooperation. This complete stranger demanded, point blank, that she give him samples of her blood, urine, and feces right here, right now. What?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Mary was horrified. Reading the disgusted look on her face, Soper assured her that the samples would just need to be sent to a lab for testing. He expected nothing more than her happy and willing compliance. Mary could hardly believe her ears. Who was this man, this complete stranger, to burst into her house and say these awful things about her?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
To escape these harsh conditions, a good number of Irish citizens emigrated to England, Canada, and the United States. Growing up in the 1870s and 80s, Mary Mallon was lucky enough to have missed the worst parts of the famine, but her parents, John and Catherine, remembered the bitter flavor of hardship, and they knew they needed to give a better life to their young daughter however they could.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
And why would she do anything to help him support his ridiculous and offensive accusations? Meanwhile, George Soper paused to take a breath. He knew he had her cornered. With all of modern science supporting him, Mary wouldn't dare deny his claims. She simply had to do what he said. She had no way out. And this was true both literally and figuratively.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
While he was talking, George Soper had backed Mary into a corner of her kitchen. So Mary reacted as any cornered creature might. She fought back. A cook knows her kitchen as well as anything. So here, Mary relied on pure reflex. In one smooth motion, she reached over her sink and pulled out her largest carving fork. Mary Mallon hissed at George Soper to get out.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
The look on her face and the tone of her voice were of complete calm. She planted her feet and did not move them. But Soper wouldn't relent. He told her he couldn't leave without the samples. So with the fork clutched tightly and expertly in her fist, Mary Mallon advanced on George Soper, getting closer and closer until Soper turned and fled.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Any thought that Soper had that Mary might be a reasonable person vanished. He warned that anyone trying to reason with Mary Mallon should be prepared to become quite aggressive. She had resisted, so Mary was now to be taken by force. But it would take more than force to stop typhoid Mary Mallon. Thanks for tuning in to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We'll be back Monday with another episode.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
For more information on Typhoid Mary Mallon, among the many sources we used, we found Typhoid Mary, Captive to the Public's Health by Judith Leavitt, extremely helpful to our research. Stay safe out there.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
This episode was written by Emily Duggan, edited by Joel Callen, fact-checked by Anya Baerle, researched by Mickey Taylor and Chelsea Wood, and sound designed by Kelly Geary, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Bruce Kitovich.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Our head of programming is Julien Boireau, our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
So in 1883, when she was 14 years old, they sat Mary down and told her about America. In America, they told Mary, she would learn to live on her own. She would have more opportunities there and more hope. Mary was fortunate to be a healthy young woman. She deserved to go somewhere where she could grow and flourish. So Mary boarded a ship bound for New York City.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
As the vessel pulled away from the Irish harbor, Mary watched her mother and father standing by the docks, waving goodbye to their only daughter. she watched them get smaller and smaller until they disappeared entirely from view. Eventually, Mary arrived safely on the shores of New York City, where she moved in with her aunt and uncle. There, she spent her days doing chores and cooking.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
This work prepared her for a career as a domestic servant, pretty much the only choice she had in America. A good number of women who immigrated from Ireland around this time ended up as cooks. It wasn't glamorous work, but it paid the bills, which was about all you could ask for. Still, it was by no means easy.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
The days were long, living quarters were cramped, there was no personal privacy, and sometimes outright sexual harassment. But a young woman like Mary Mallon had only two choices to support herself. She could either work or get married. But she found herself in a catch-22. Once she started working, the grueling hours got in the way of meeting men.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
There was a lot of social pressure going against Mary Mallon in turn-of-the-century America. At the time of her first work placement, 28-year-old Mary was a single, childless woman. In 1897, this automatically made her an object of suspicion. But Mary was also an immigrant at a time when the Irish were discriminated against. And not only was she a worker, but a domestic worker.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
From her childhood in Ireland through her adulthood in America, she faced her life with grit and self-preservation. She was a hard worker, self-reliant, and proud of her competence. But something else made her more than qualified to work in the kitchens of New York's most elite families. Mary Mellon was an excellent cook, second to none.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
She nourished wealthy families for a living. She couldn't have poisoned them. Mary denied the accusations used against her until her dying breath. Still, Mary's employers continued to fall ill. To this day, we don't know what to call Mary Mallon. Do we call her a serial killer acting with willful malice? Do we call her a victim of circumstance?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
She could wield a kitchen knife like nobody's business, and her dishes were to die for. So the agency had no trouble finding work for Mary. For her first job as a cook, she moved in with a wealthy New York family who spent their summers in Mamaroneck, Westchester County.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
This was likely the first time since arriving in America that Mary had lived outside of her aunt and uncle's home, so this was her first real go at self-reliance. Mary must have felt proud of her first official offer of professional employment. Not only did she have a job, but she was working for a well-respected family.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Standing in the Mamaroneck kitchen one afternoon, an hour or so before dinner, Mary paused to take a look around her. A slight sea breeze ruffled her apron as she tied it back. The summer sun made the pots and pans hanging on their hooks gleam. Now, Mary's life had creature comforts she had never dared imagine before.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Workers in the homes of the elites didn't have to deal with the dirt, noise, and squalor of New York City. She was doing work she was good at, and she would only get better. And having a steady income didn't hurt. Standing there in the kitchen, 28-year-old Mary smiled. For maybe the first time in her life, she felt something like hope. She felt like everything was going to change.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
See, there had been a recent visitor to the house in Mamaroneck, a young man who enjoyed Mary's cooking quite a bit. On that day, he wandered into the kitchen as Mary worked to prep for dinner. She noticed that he looked a little paler than he had since his arrival a few days earlier. Curiously, he kept scratching at his chest through his shirt.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Striking up conversation, the young man asked the cook what was for dinner. As she listed each item menu, though, she noticed that he seemed distracted. He raised a hand to his temple and held it there. She asked him if he was feeling all right. He nodded but kept his hand to his head. It was just a headache, nothing to worry about, the young man said.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
He requested that she open a few more windows in the house when she had a minute, and then went to bed without eating the lovely dinner she'd prepared. Mary was disappointed, but thought little else of it. But the next morning, when he didn't come to breakfast, Mary went looking for him.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
When she got to the young man's room, she found him still in bed, his sheets doused in sweat, his skin crawling with bright red rashes. Even in just the minute she stood by him, he was tossing and turning on the sheets, clawing and scratching. Trying to soothe him, she laid a hand to his forehead, then immediately had to pull it away.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Heat radiated off the young man, and his face was so pale that it looked like he had no blood in him at all. Mary did not have a ton of first-hand experience with disease, but she knew a serious one when she saw it. She knew that this one was a matter of life and death. Typhoid fever had made its dramatic entrance in Mary Mallon's life, and it intended to stay for quite a while.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Day after day, the young man's fever raged. Two weeks passed, then three, then four, and still his body burned. The servants tending to him feared for their own health, even their deaths. At that time, typhoid fever could still be expected to kill 10% of those infected with it. But it was their duty to care for him, so they did their best. Day after day, week after week, the fever didn't break.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Hour by grueling hour, the life drained from the young man's eyes. The good news was that no one else in the family Mary was working for came down with symptoms, and typhoid tended to attack travelers. Therefore, they reasoned the young man must have contracted the disease before he got to Mamaroneck. So the family was safe. Or were they?
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Or do we simply call her by the one name that stuck, the one name she was never able to shake? Typhoid Mary. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram, at Serial Killers Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. If you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
By 1900, the typhoid fever that had plagued the Western world in the previous century was considerably better understood and definitely better controlled, but it was still out there and still deadly. and no one in the Mamaronek house could point to any known cause for the outbreak. While it was mostly the sick themselves who spread typhoid, it also passed easily through milk and water.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Maybe the family's water supply had been contaminated? An unsuspected filtration worker could track in anything on his boots and not notice. But in the end, none of these theories proved conclusive. No one had any idea what had possibly gone wrong. In the months that followed, no one thought to blame the cook.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Unfortunately, Mary didn't catch typhoid from the young man, but she did decide to move on from the Mamaroneck house. With her health and her distinctive culinary talents intact, Mary Mallon had no trouble finding a new job in another kitchen. In the winter of 1901 to 1902, at 32 years old, Mary found herself working for another well-to-do New York family.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Again, Mary was happy to be working in good conditions. She busied herself making her schedule and her routines, and the kitchen became a symphony of stirring and chopping. The house was full of noise and laughter. Then, one morning, things got a little quieter.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
There was no crank of the rotary washing machine, which everyone had become used to hearing in the mornings, and usually the laundress hummed to herself while she worked, but no one heard that either. Maybe the laundress had accidentally slept in, tired from days of hard work in the summer heat, so another servant was sent to wake her.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Suddenly, the servant was sprinting back into the kitchen, begging for the others to join her. The terror in her eyes was unmistakable. Mary dropped her whisk into a bowl of egg yolks and dashed out after her. Running into the bedroom, Mary saw something that stopped her dead in her tracks.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
The laundress was slumped over in her bed, pale as a ghost, and a now-familiar red rash peeked out from the sleeves and collar of the laundress' bedclothes. Mary's blood went cold. Not again, she almost said out loud. It couldn't be, she just barely stopped herself from crying out. But it was. Typhoid fever was back. Again, Mary left her job and began to look for work somewhere else.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Again, she managed to avoid getting sick. And again, her skills helped her find a new place of employment without too much delay. I should say that we can't be certain that Mary's disappearance was directly linked to typhoid fever. Domestic servants moved about quite frequently, perhaps hoping the next place they found work would be better. Sometimes a job would be seasonal or temporary.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
so there are some logical reasons Mary would have chosen to leave. However, the timeline of her departure and the outbreak does align. By June of 1902, 33-year-old Mary Mallon was cooking in Dark Harbor, Maine, at the luxurious summer residence of New York lawyer J. Coleman Drayton and his family.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
The Drayton family was looking forward to spending an enjoyable summer together in Dark Harbor, a common destination for wealthy families from New York, Boston, and Philadelphia. But tragedy dealt them a heavy blow.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
In rapid succession, five of the household servants and four members of Coleman Drayton's family came down with, you guessed it, typhoid fever, all while Mary Mallon was cooking for them. Only Mary herself and Coleman Drayton were left unscathed. He asked Mary to stay on to nurse the sick. Maybe it was out of survivor's guilt that Mary agreed.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
Certainly, she was well compensated for her additional responsibilities. In this small but meaningful way, Mary benefited from this particular typhoid outbreak. In the case of the Drayton family in Dark Harbor, it was concluded that the sickness had started with their footman. This seemed obvious because he was the first one to have come down with the disease.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
This is our first episode on Mary Mallon. In early 1900s New York, Mary unknowingly spread typhoid to at least 51 people, leading to a suspected three deaths and the moniker Typhoid Mary. Stay with us. When Mary Malin was born in 1869, Ireland was still reeling from calamity and tragedy. The Irish potato famine had decimated the small island country's population.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
What we don't know is whether Mary noticed a morbid trend following her. Sure, some things weren't adding up in the equations, but she was the common denominator. And what made this situation even more confusing and frightening was that typhoid fever was apparently considered a working class disease back then. The working poor were usually crammed into congested and unsanitary living situations,
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
With no room to quarantine their sick, they easily transmitted typhoid and other illnesses among themselves. So it was quite unusual for this so-called working-class disease to find a home in the ritzy, remote, seasonal escapes of New York City's most elite families. But maybe this next one would be different.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
In 1906, 37-year-old Mary Mallon went to Long Island to cook for prosperous New York banker Charles Henry Warren at the Warrens' summer residence in Oyster Bay. It started out an idyllic summer for the Warrens and their cook. Every night, the Warren family gathered for dinner. Seated together around the table, they would happily recount anecdotes from their long days, leisurely spent.
Serial Killers
The Legacy of Typhoid Mary Pt. 1
And the main course? Every night, another home run of a meal by Mary. And even better than these unbeatable entrees was the dessert. The Warren children clapped their hands as Mary plated out scoops of the sweetest vanilla ice cream they'd ever put a spoon to, on top of which sat handfuls of sliced peaches. Plump, juicy, and sunset pink, they glimmered in the fading light like jewels.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
So due to the nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is definitely advised. This episode includes discussions of animal abuse, rape, torture, kidnapping, and murder. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Then the masked man closes the door and just walks away. Dwayne goes inside to tell James. When they return, the masked man's gone. They check the truck. Samantha's driver's license is missing, which is all they notice at the time. The next morning, Israel and his family are up early. They've got a plane to catch. They're flying to Houston, then driving to New Orleans to go on a cruise.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
They're gone by the time Duane wakes up at 9.30. It's been more than 12 hours since Samantha went missing. But Duane doesn't call the cops. Neither does Samantha's father.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Duane later says he didn't think police would do anything unless Samantha was missing for 24 hours. The police are notified later that day.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
At 7.56 p.m. on February 24th, Duane gets a text from Samantha's number. It's been more than three weeks since the last correspondence.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Connors Bog is a popular park in the area. Duane and James notify police before racing there themselves. They find a missing poster for a dog named Albert and underneath it, a folded piece of paper in a Ziploc bag. On one side is a ransom note asking for $30,000 to be deposited in the bank account attached to the ATM card Israel stole.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
On the other is a black and white Xeroxed Polaroid of Samantha. Her eyes are wide open, facing the camera with heavy eyeliner. There's silver duct tape around her mouth and chin, and you can see a forearm enter the frame from the left. It's holding Samantha's hair at the back of her head and wearing a light-colored latex glove.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Her hair was worn down at the coffee shop, but sections now appear to be braided. Perhaps most importantly, prominently featured in the foreground is a copy of the Anchorage Daily News, and it's dated February 13th, 12 days after Samantha's abduction.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
All this time later, Samantha might still be alive, and if the ransom note is to be believed, so long as $30,000 gets deposited in that account immediately and all other demands are met, Samantha will be freed in six months. Two things happen as a result of the ransom note. First, the money is immediately deposited in Samantha's account. Officials want her abductor to start withdrawing money.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
It'll make it easier to find him. And second, since the case can officially be classified as a kidnapping, a federal crime, the FBI gets involved.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
It was a white Ford Focus. They find Israel at a motel room in Lufkin, Texas. After surveilling him for a bit, a patrol officer stops his car for a routine traffic violation. Their radar clocked him going two miles over the speed limit. When the officer pulls up to the side of the car and asks where Israel is from, he doesn't lie. He says, Alaska.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Before we get into this story, amongst the many sources we used, we found the book American Predator by Maureen Callahan and our interview with Josh Hallmark, host of True Crime Bullshit, extremely helpful to our research. The audiobook edition of American Predator is available for Spotify Premium subscribers in our audiobook catalog, where you can check it out after listening to this episode.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The officer asks for a license and for Israel to step out of the car. He does. The officer notices he's carrying two knives, one in his front pocket, another in his back pocket. He instructs Israel to place them on the trunk of the car. Before long, officers will find a lot more in Israel's vehicle.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Highlighted maps, rolls of cash, porn, alcohol, sunglasses, binoculars, a handgun, a ski mask, and a headlamp. They also find a wallet on his person. And inside the wallet is Samantha Koenig's driver's license. So if you believe Israel, had he had his handgun on him the day of his arrest and it wasn't in the trunk of his car, he would have gone down in a blaze of gunfire.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Officers drive Israel to the Lufkin police station. They find the ATM card Israel stole from Samantha's truck in his wallet. Keyes tells detectives that he doesn't want to talk, but he never asks for a lawyer. From Lufkin, he's transported in handcuffs and leg irons to a federal penitentiary in Beaumont, Texas.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Meanwhile, detectives in Alaska tell James Koenig about the man in custody, the one they suspect had a hand in his daughter's disappearance. For James, the name Israel Keys doesn't ring any bells. If there is a connection between Israel and his daughter, he's unaware of it. For the sake of their investigation, authorities ask James to keep Israel's name private for now.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
It takes two weeks for officials to extradite Israel from Texas to Alaska. In that time, the FBI digs up everything they can on him. They speak to his girlfriend and mother. His mother doesn't speak to his guilt, but his girlfriend insists he's innocent. They run background checks, raid his home, confiscate his computers.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The evidence will take a while to sort through, but in the meantime, they learn Israel is finally willing to talk so long as his demands are met. He wants the death penalty taken off the table and his name to stay out of the press as much as possible. But more than anything, Josh believes he wanted control. over his fate, over the narrative. And in a way, he's given control.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Officials accept his demands because, more than anything, they want to find Samantha. And Israel may be the only person who knows where she is. On March 30th, they sit him down for an interview with an unconventional setting at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Alaska. FBI agents are in the room, but the interview's led by the state district attorney and his team.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Many believe it's unorthodox and not in the best interest of the case. For starters, the FBI can lie to Israel and make false promises. The DA and his team cannot. Israel starts the interview by explaining why he's cooperating. He thinks it'll make the process easier in the long run for himself and his family.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
He adds that down the line he'll probably have more requests for officials, demands he expects to be met. Then he talks. He leads detectives through the evening of Samantha's abduction, how he planned to rob the coffee stand after staking it out in advance. How he stopped at a grocery store for candy and cigars ahead of time.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
How he wore a tiny police scanner in his ear so he could track their movements. He knew most officers would be stationed at a festival across town. It's why he chose that night. Importantly, he tells investigators he didn't know Samantha, never met her before that night. He says he only chose that coffee stand because it was open late. Samantha was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
We all change how we act, compartmentalize, hide pieces of ourselves as we move through different spaces. In that sense, Israel Keyes was no different than the rest of us. But none of us are born examining our actions in real time, guessing what others are thinking about us. That's learned.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The district attorney asks Israel where he'd like to start the story of what happened after Samantha's abduction. He says he doesn't want to go through everything beat for beat. So someone suggests they start at the end. What happened to Samantha Koenig?
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
After returning to the shed with Samantha's ATM card, it was late. Israel raped Samantha twice, strangled her with gloves on, and at some point stabbed her below her right shoulder blade. He then went into the house, took a shower, and woke up his daughter for the cruise. Detectives now have a much clearer picture of the man sitting before them, but it's just the beginning of their education.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
After that initial interview, two different stories emerge. The first is an ending.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Israel leads the FBI to Samantha's body, submerged in the vastness of a frozen Alaskan lake. Even with Israel's precise location, it takes teams of divers hours to recover her remains. Her loved ones learned the real origin of that ransom photo, the one that gave them the hope she might still be alive. Israel staged the photograph 11 days after he killed Samantha.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Winter temperatures had slowed the decomposition process. Israel had sewn her eyelids open to make her look alive, added makeup, and braided her hair as well. After so many weeks spent missing, after all the suspicion cast on her father and boyfriend, the ransom note and close calls, no one could have predicted this. The city of Anchorage hosts a memorial for Samantha.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Hundreds attend to honor a life cut unimaginably short. Many come wearing lime green, Samantha's favorite color. They match the balloons released into the sky and the embroidered wings on the back of James Koenig's vest. It's not the ending anyone wanted. The pain and grief from losing someone so young, amplified by knowing what a stranger put them through in their final hours.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Trying to not let their last chapter of life overshadow everything before it. And on top of it all, to be told it was just a random act of violence. A whim. Bad luck. On another day, it could have been someone else. Samantha's boyfriend, Dwayne, learns he was the lucky one. Israel almost abducted him and Samantha together as a pair. At least, that's what Israel tells the FBI.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The second story that emerges after that first interview is only just beginning.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
operating for more than a decade and that they believe there could be victims in other states as well by the time the fbi finishes going through israel's two computers he had already destroyed a third with a hammer they find hundreds of photos of people some alongside missing person flyers and news articles about disappearances nothing obvious connects them
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
There are photos of women and men of all races, body types, and backgrounds, ranging in age from the elderly down to children. Samantha Koenig is one of them, but just one.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
And so the FBI and Israel Keyes begin a long, tedious game of cat and mouse to find out how deep his well really went.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Thanks for listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We're here with a new episode every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast, and we'd love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Once again, we'd like to give a special thanks to Josh Hallmark for lending his expertise to today's story.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
You can check out True Crime Bullshit, Josh's investigation into Israel Keys, which is going into its sixth season, as well as Josh's other podcasts from Studio Both And on Spotify or wherever else you listen. Stay safe out there. Serial Killers is a Spotify podcast. This episode was written by Connor Sampson, researched, edited, and produced by Connor Sampson and Chelsea Wood.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Fact-checked by Laurie Siegel and sound designed by Alex Button. Our head of programming is Julien Boireau. Our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
He's spoken to many of Israel's friends and loved ones, as well as eyewitnesses, FBI agents who've worked Israel's case and some of the world's most prominent criminal psychologists. He's talking about a turning point in Israel's childhood.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Those friends never talked to Israel again, which taught him two lessons.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
So for the next 20 years, the world only knew the side of Israel he curated. He grew up as the second oldest of 10 siblings in a family who lived off-grid, no heat or electricity, no access to public schooling or modern medicine. They didn't trust government oversight and hunted for their own food. Israel in particular developed a love of hunting.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The family moved often, first from Utah to Washington, then Oregon, New York, Maine, usually relocating for their faith.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
At some point, the family attended a church affiliated with a racist anti-Semitic version of Christian identity theology. According to the book American Predator by Maureen Callahan, the family's evolving religious beliefs caused problems for Israel. Socially and romantically, he felt shame over his crushes, hid his relationships with girls. In his late teens, he rejected religion.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Israel and his family essentially severed ties, though he stayed in contact with his mother and sister over the years. Left to his own devices, Israel was resourceful. He had already built his own cabin and fixed an old pickup truck. He branched off on his own. And you could say he flourished. He enlisted in the army at 20, traveled the country, was stationed in Egypt for a bit.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
He was generally liked and respected as a soldier. He held down jobs and relationships. He spent three years in the military before being honorably discharged, then moved to the Macaw Reservation in Washington to live with a girlfriend he'd met online. And in 2002, the couple welcomed a daughter.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Keys was suspected of burglarizing one of the tribal offices at one point, and he got into some heated disputes with his partner. Nothing violent, Josh says. Nothing that couldn't be excused.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
And by 2012, Israel's criminal record included one DUI from when he was in the military, and that's it. But with stories like this, one question always comes up. How did no one notice? Israel wasn't perfect. There were warning signs besides the incidents on the reservation.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
That's Israel Keys. And this is the story he never wanted to get out. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. If you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up to share your thoughts.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Still, that question, how did no one notice? It might cross your mind from time to time the further we get into this story, especially as it relates to the women in Israel's life. His girlfriends, his mother and sisters, his daughter. We asked Josh what he thinks about that.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
To Josh, it's easy for us to see the forest from the trees, especially with the advantage of hindsight, but... We know people how we know them, and we're also living our own lives.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
For that reason and many more, no one noticed that Israel Keys had been killing for more than a decade and studying how to get away with it for longer.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
He was a consumer of true crime. He wanted to learn.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Hopefully, indeed. If you believe Israel, the beginning of his downfall started as all his killings did, with a whim, a chance encounter with an 18-year-old woman named Samantha Koenig.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Josh is right. That does become important. But for now, what you need to know is when Samantha and Israel cross paths, they're both living in Anchorage, Alaska. Israel with a new girlfriend and his daughter. Samantha with her single father, James, and boyfriend, Dwayne. Samantha's working shifts at that coffee stand.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
It's winter in Alaska, so it's not that unusual. The man orders a coffee.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The man, of course, is Israel. He carries a gun and zip ties. It's February, about 8 p.m., the sunset hours before.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Israel tells Samantha he's robbing the place, He points the gun in her direction and tells her to turn off the lights, empty the cash register. Then he zip ties her hands, shoves napkins in her mouth so she can't speak, and pushes her out the door. This happens at around 8.15 p.m. Now, as we walk through what happens next, I want you to imagine how much time is passing.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
This is part one of our three-part series on Israel Keys, the serial killer who may have murdered upwards of 11 people across the United States. His spree lasted for over a decade before he was finally apprehended. Over the next three episodes, we'll be welcoming Josh Hallmark, an expert in this case, to lend us his insight. And we'll also be hearing Israel Keys' chilling interrogation by the FBI.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
There's video footage taken by a surveillance camera across the street at Home Depot. You see Israel and Samantha waiting to cross the street to the parking lot where Israel's truck is parked. a white Chevy. As the light for the crosswalk changes, Samantha breaks free. She runs, but her arms are bound. Israel quickly tackles her and pulls her to her feet. He whispers something in her ear.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Whatever he says gets Samantha to cooperate. They walk to his truck and stop for a second, just outside. There are strangers hovering around the car directly next to his, just a few feet away. He waits for them to leave.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
What time would you say they pulled out of that Home Depot parking lot? Well, Samantha's boyfriend, Duane, arrives outside the coffee stand at about 8.23 to pick her up from work. Meaning, if Duane had arrived just a few minutes earlier, he might have run into Samantha and Israel on the street. And there's a chance he drove right by them. The lights inside are turned off. He looks in the window.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
He sees napkins strewn about the floor, a rag still laying out on the counter. He figures Samantha got a ride home with a friend, maybe left in a rush. Hours later, he receives a text from Samantha's number.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The text doesn't sound like Samantha wrote it. It comes in around 1130 p.m., about the same time as Israel and Samantha arrive at Israel's home.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
The shed is 12 feet away from where Israel's nine-year-old daughter is sleeping. Israel tells Samantha he wants her to be comfortable. He gives her a bucket so she can go to the bathroom. They talk for a bit. At some point, Israel asks for Samantha's ATM card and she tells him her boyfriend has it. It's back at home in their truck. So he leaves her in the shed alone and drives away.
Serial Killers
Best of 2024: Israel Keyes Pt. 1
Meanwhile, Duane and Samantha's father, James, are up late waiting to see if she'll come home. Sometime before 3 a.m., Duane becomes inexplicably called to open the front door and look outside. When he does, he sees a masked man standing about six feet away, rifling through Samantha and Duane's pickup truck. The two men stand there for a second.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
It was only once she told her husband all about the scheme that they realized Mary had raided their luggage. They were outraged and confronted her, but Mary had no interest in righting her wrongs. Instead, she sought to get her latest victims out of her hair for good. She went to the town magistrate and told them her brother was a deserter.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She did so, likely knowing full well that his crime could be punishable by death. Luckily for him, it seems he didn't face the noose. Even then, Mary wasn't done exploiting her brother. She wrote to their mother, claiming he'd been jailed and she'd need 10 pounds to get him out. Her mother obliged, and Mary pocketed the cash. And after that, she went right back to planning her next scheme.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Thinking back to her older tactics, Mary decided that for her next con, she would bring back her imaginary advisor, Miss Blythe. She just had to find a willing target. It was the spring of 1806 when 38-year-old Mary met the Perigos. For some reason, Rebecca, wife to William, suspected that someone had cast an evil charm upon her. She heard about Mary's skills as a witch and reached out to ask her.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Of course, Mary was all too eager to help the distressed woman. As a first order of business, Mary requested one of Rebecca's belongings, namely a garment worn next to the skin. Mary assured her this would help break the curse. So William delivered one of his wife's petticoats to the witch. According to Mary, Ms. Blythe would perform magic on the clothing and prescribe other remedies for Rebecca.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Factories went largely unregulated and workers' rights were practically non-existent. Not that many people were paying attention to their rights as employees. Most people were grateful for any job they could get. The lower classes were hard hit by growing gaps in the social caste, which kept them from living truly comfortable existences.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Sure enough, a few days later, Mary produced a letter from Ms. Blythe with special instructions. The document said that Mary was to place four guineas into the corners of Rebecca's bed, where they should be left for 18 months. There was also one other condition. The Perigos were to tell no one about the magical assistance they were receiving.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Though it was an odd request, Rebecca was desperate to relieve herself of the dark charm. She gladly gave Mary the guinea notes to complete the ritual. Per the letter, Mary had sewn each guinea into a silk bag first. Once the job was done, Mary went on her way. Unfortunately, that wasn't the end of her business with the Perigos.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She soon brought them another letter from Miss Blythe, claiming that more items were needed in order to reverse the evil spell that had been cast on her. Rebecca told her husband to fulfill any request Mary made. Over the next year, Mary requested a large variety of goods from William Perigo, insisting that having them was the only way he could save his wife.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
They included various food items, silk clothing, linens, spirits, and even a bed frame. It's not clear what the Perigos believed Miss Blythe would do with the things they gave to her, but it seems they never questioned her requests. And the items were keeping Mary well-fed. She had found her golden goose.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
To ensure that the details of the arrangement didn't make their way to nosy neighbors who might have better judgment than her victims, Mary always insisted that the letters from Miss Blythe must be burned. The Perigos were being taken for all they were worth, and there was no paper trail to prove it. But like every con Mary committed, enough was never enough.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
It's possible she felt she was running out of ways to convince Rebecca she could remove her evil charm. To extort more money from the family, she decided to up the ante. So in April of 1807, one year after the Perigos first came to Mary seeking magical guidance, the scammer hatched her darkest scheme yet. She was about to inflict a world of suffering the poor Perigos couldn't foresee.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
By 1807, 39-year-old Mary Bateman had extorted a significant amount of goods and cash from Rebecca and William Perrigo. Still greedy for more, Mary decided her victims would be more used to her if they were dead. So in April of 1807, Mary forged yet another one of her infamous letters from Miss Blythe, predicting that one or both would fall ill within the next month.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
The Perigos couldn't believe their luck. They'd spent the last year trying to remove the evil charm that had been placed on Rebecca. Now they were going to get sick? They couldn't catch a break. Worried, they turned to Mary, who assured them that Miss Blythe would have just the remedy. If they followed her instructions, they'd be just fine. So that's just what they did.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Many accepted their grim lot in life, sometimes reduced to scouring trash bins for extra food when times were especially tough. Still, others saw petty crime as a way to deal with scarcity. Among them was 35-year-old Mary Bateman. Her husband John did his best to support their family as a wheelwright, making and repairing wheels for wagons and carriages.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
And the first thing they had to do was bring half a pound of honey to Mary. Mary assured Rebecca that she would add special ingredients from Miss Blythe. She then gave the Perigos a magic pudding-like concoction made with various powders for six days straight. If they felt sick, Mary advised them to take a teaspoon of the specially prepared honey. The task seemed easy enough.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
There was just one stipulation. The perigos were forbidden from summoning a doctor or sharing their food with anyone else. Mary warned them that doing so would only make things worse. The perigos were terrified of ruining the magic, so they kept quiet, never suspecting that they were walking right into a trap. They began taking the special pudding on May 11th.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
By the 13th, both had fallen violently ill. They felt heat in their sore mouths. Their lips were black. They had headaches and prolonged episodes of vomiting. The pudding was evidently laced with poison, but Mary had played her part so well that neither William nor Rebecca ever suspected their witch wasn't so friendly.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Even still, William found himself unable to keep eating the pudding she'd given them. Rebecca, on the other hand, was determined to finish her portion, which Mary wholeheartedly encouraged. When she was too sick to do anything else, Rebecca licked up generous portions of the honey, as Mary had advised. But of course, it only sped up her decline.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
On May 24th, 1807, just 13 days after they'd started Mary's regimen, Rebecca Perrigo died. Racked with grief in the wake of his wife's passing, William grappled with what to do next. He knew his wife had trusted Mary until the end, but now he was feeling skeptical about the witch. So against both of Mary's orders...
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
William decided to seek real medical advice the day after his wife passed, from a surgeon named Mr. Chorley. And as soon as William shared his symptoms with the doctor, Chorley knew William had been poisoned. Though William didn't want to believe the doctor, he did feel compelled to confront Mary. And as always, the self-proclaimed witch tried to weasel her way out of it.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She blamed Rebecca for disobeying orders, saying that Rebecca's death was her own fault. And somehow, despite his better judgment, William accepted this. Though he believed his wife had done all she could to follow the witch's orders, Mary was the one with magic insight. So he carried on with life as it had been, meaning he continued to take directions from Mary for the next year.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She had him wrapped around her finger, keeping him terrified with warnings that without her protection, Rebecca would rise from the grave to haunt him. So William gave Mary whatever she asked for, which was mostly food, though he also handed over some of his wife's clothes too. This carried on until the fall of 1808. That was when the spell was finally broken.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
That October, it seems William was running out of money. That might be why he decided to reopen the silken bags that Mary had sewn into his mattress two years earlier. He ripped them open, only to find scrap paper and half pennies where there should have been guinea notes and gold. He felt delirious with a mix of anger and shock. She'd told them the guineas were important for the spell.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
But even he struggled to bring in a consistent income at times, not to mention Mary and John had several children to feed as well. So it's hardly surprising that Mary resorted to cons for extra cash. It's unclear whether Mary's thievery ever truly benefited her loved ones, but their financial burdens may in part explain her penchant for pilfering.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She'd promised they would give them protection. She'd sworn it. She'd lied. William decided to confront Mary immediately, but she didn't seem phased. She convinced him to return the following day for another meeting. Surprised at Mary's willingness to resolve the issue, William agreed. The next day, he set off to meet her and brought the chief constable of Leeds with him.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
It was then that 40-year-old Mary tried one last con. She faked a vomiting fit and was subsequently taken to the local magistrate, where she announced that William was trying to poison her. By this stage, she was a well-practiced performer, but the chief constable wasn't buying her act. He took Mary into custody and ordered that her home be searched.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
There, authorities found many of the items that the Perigos had given to Mary over the years. It was enough to support William's story, but not enough to hold up in court. So investigators got to work building a case while Mary was kept in custody. It took nearly three months, but in January of 1809, police finally charged Mary with murder.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Her court date was set for that March, and in the interim, the story of the Yorkshire Witch started spreading through Leeds. Before long, it seemed everyone in town knew about Mary Bateman's crimes, and they all wanted to see what happened next. So on March 17th, a large crowd gathered to watch her trial. The proceedings lasted 11 hours,
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
and included many witnesses who came forward to share what they knew about Mary's dealings with the Perigos. There was no question that she'd been conning the couple, but what the authorities wanted to prove was that she'd set out to kill Rebecca. Of course, there was a reasonable case for her guilt, even just circumstantially.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
But the most damning evidence came from Dr. Chorley, who attended to William just a day after his wife had passed. He'd known immediately that William had been poisoned. Wanting to confirm his suspicions, he'd fed Mary's special honey for Rebecca to a dog. The canine vomited immediately and died four days later.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
When Dr. Chorley opened the dog's body, he found a high degree of inflammation, as well as what he called a corrosive sublimate of mercury. In other words, the honey was poisoned. Still, it's likely that even without this evidence, the court had made up its mind about Mary before the trial even started.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Female criminals were treated especially harshly in those times, and the gossip about her had already damaged her reputation beyond repair. At the end of the day, the jury announced their verdict. Mary was found guilty of murdering Rebecca with poison and sentenced to death by hanging. Just three days later, 41-year-old Mary was led to the gallows.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Thousands of people had gathered to watch her die. Some still believed she was magic and that she would vanish before the noose took hold. They were in for a less enchanting sight. When asked if she had any final words, Mary claimed she was innocent and allowed the rope to be placed around her neck. Then, in one fell swoop... Mary Bateman was dead.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
The following day, even more people came to see her corpse. Everyone wanted to get a look at the witch for themselves. Eventually, Mary's body was removed from display and was dissected in the name of science. What happened next was less scientific. Strips of her skin were sold to some unsavory people who believed the flesh would ward off evil. The rest was used to bind books.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
By 1803, she'd already swindled a handful of people with her ominous fortunes, promising that her magical charms would help people evade tragedy. To legitimize her preposterous claims, she invented a character named Mrs. Moore, who had the gift of divine insight. She'd fooled at least five people with this lie, and one of her schemes even led to an innocent woman's death.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Then, when there was nothing else left, her skeleton was donated to the Leeds Medical School, where it remained for almost 200 years. So was Mary Bateman a witch? Maybe not in the way you're thinking. Time and time again, she manipulated her marks with ease. She convinced them of her abilities using nothing more than her words and their own superstitions.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
And by the end of her story, the entire town of Leeds was put under her spell. They were hypnotized, unable to look away. She might not have cast enchantments, But she did have the power of persuasion. Thanks for tuning in to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We'll be back Monday with another episode.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
For more information on Mary Bateman, amongst the many sources we used, we found the book The Yorkshire Witch, The Life and Trial of Mary Bateman by Summer Strevens, extremely helpful to our research. Stay safe out there.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
This episode was written by Lauren DeLille, edited by Joel Callen, fact-checked by Bennett Logan, researched by Nikki Taylor and Chelsea Wood, sound designed by Alex Button, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Bruce Kachovich.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Our head of programming is Julian Boirot, our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
due to the nature of this case listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of murder consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen By the time her story ended, Mary Bateman was known by another name, the Yorkshire Witch.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Anyone else might have felt something resembling guilt after killing someone, even if it was an accident. Not Mary. She didn't seem the slightest bit remorseful in the wake of the tragedy. It's possible she told herself that the killing had merely been accidental, but even if that was the case, it couldn't have escaped her notice that the death had been somewhat convenient.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
All of a sudden, Mary had stumbled upon a new method for shaking off her hapless victims. If the people she stole from were dead, there would be no one around to protest as she picked over and profited from every single one of their belongings. Emboldened by this thought, Mary set out in search of her next target. There was money to be had.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
And though many women throughout history were persecuted for being witches, we now know that it was unlikely any of them were actually practicing witchcraft. But what about Mary Bateman? If she wasn't a real witch, she certainly wasn't innocent by any stretch of the imagination. She lured her victims in, bled them dry, then cast them aside without a second thought.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
In early September 1803, 35-year-old Mary befriended the Kitchen family. There were three of them, a mother, who we'll call Dorothy, and her two maiden daughters, who we'll refer to as Eleanor and Isabel. The sisters ran a draper's shop, where people came to get fabrics for their homes tanned and dyed.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
It's unclear how the women first met Mary, but she took to them like a leech to blood, frequenting the shop and soon helping them out with their business. For all intents and purposes, the time that Mary spent building a rapport with the Kitchens increased their likelihood of trusting her down the line. This may have been her plan all along.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
If so, it worked perfectly, because when Eleanor got sick that fall, she didn't question Mary's offer to nurse her back to health. If anything, the young woman was grateful she had such a tender companion. So when Mary told her that she knew a woman who could prescribe special treatments to make her healthy, Eleanor gratefully accepted.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Unlike her past cons, Mary didn't make mention of her made-up helper, Mrs. Moore. Perhaps worried that the name had garnered a poor reputation in Leeds, Mary invented an entirely new character. This one was Miss Blythe. She wasn't the sacred seventh child of a seventh child, as Mrs. Moore had been, but she did have a convenient knack for miracle treatments.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
According to Mary, Miss Blythe could interpret the stars and fully predict the future as well. With these fibs, Mary convinced Eleanor that her health would soon improve. In the days that followed, Mary brought powders to the sick woman, claiming Miss Blythe had prescribed them. She administered the mystery medicines, but they didn't work.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Instead of getting better, Eleanor felt a burning in her throat, nausea, and abdominal pain. And less than a week after accepting Mary's help, Eleanor Kitchen was dead. Naturally, Dorothy and Isabel were grief-stricken. Mary insisted on taking care of them while they mourned. Despite Eleanor's sudden and unexplained death, they didn't seem to suspect a thing. They trusted Mary completely.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
It was a grave mistake. Over the course of the next week, Dorothy and Isabel fell sick with the same symptoms Eleanor had suffered. As neighbors heard the news, they whispered how odd it was that both women had been in great health mere days earlier, and now they were desperately ill. No one seemed to guess that Mary was behind it all. The mother, Dorothy, was the next to die.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Then, not more than ten days after Eleanor had passed, her sister Isabel did too. The entire family had been wiped out in less than a fortnight, and no one could work out how. Doctors attributed their tragic ends to cholera morbus, a gastrointestinal disease that wasn't widely understood at the time. But Mary herself insisted that the Kitchens had died of the plague.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Though the last major outbreak had occurred in the mid 17th century, people still lived with fear that it might return at any time. However, one doctor didn't buy Mary's explanation and decided to investigate. He reasoned that the only logical explanation for the Kitchen family's sudden passing was poisoning.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
He told authorities that they needed to perform an autopsy to get to the bottom of things. If only he'd gone through with his plan, Mary surely would have been caught. But there was just one problem. Since no family member was alive to consent to the procedure, the bodies were buried without inspection, and any evidence of Mary's crimes along with them.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
So, with nothing to prove otherwise, Mary's claims that the Kitchens had died of the plague spread across town like wildfire. This worked to her benefit. In the days after the Kitchen family deaths, locals didn't dare come near their abandoned drapery They feared that the fine linens may be riddled with disease-carrying germs. But Mary felt perfectly safe.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
And before long, her schemes became deadly. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. If you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She knew she wouldn't get sick, and she hauled out their belongings one by one. Then, as she'd done to each of her surviving victims in the past, Mary likely pawned off every last possession for a quick profit. By late fall 1803, 35-year-old Mary Bateman had extracted all she could from the late kitchens. She knew it was time for her next scheme, but she didn't yet know what it would be.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She spent the next several years biding her time, laying low, maybe searching for inspiration, and eventually it arrived in the form of a fellow con woman. In 1806, England's population felt the lasting effects of the Napoleonic Wars. Taxes skyrocketed, unemployment increased, and families were torn apart as men left to serve their country.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Hopeless times created hordes of people looking for comfort, setting the stage for con artists like Mary Bateman to profit off the fearful. Still, beyond the street-scavenging soothsayer, there were others whose schemes took on more orthodox themes. Enter Joanna Southcott, the self-proclaimed religious prophetess.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Like many preaching zealots who came before her, Joanna made a name predicting the second coming of Christ. It wasn't a hard stretch of the imagination. A multitude of English civilians subscribed to the theory that Napoleon himself was the beast written about in the Bible's Book of Revelation. Joanna Southcott took that idea one step further.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She prophesied that she was destined to give birth to the Messiah through a miraculous virgin birth in 1814. Preposterous as her claims were, given that she'd be 64 years old by the time the baby came, Joanna was able to amass a large following. Faithful Christians clung to her promises. And here's how she capitalized on it.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Southcott told her followers that she had the power to seal them as one of the 144,000 people who would be saved at the end of time. Once they'd paid her in loyalty and cash, Southcott would hand them a token, marking them as one of the chosen. Her believers would, in turn, feel they'd squared away their fates.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
By 1806, thousands of people had paid up, and that's likely when 38-year-old Mary Bateman noticed Joanna's sizable, profitable flock. Mary was baffled by the power Joanna wielded over her followers and decided that those might be easier to swindle than most. The wheels in her head turned as she pondered how to get a piece of the pie.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She decided that she could manipulate the community by making her own prophecies about the Second Coming, which she hoped would bring in plenty of coin. By subscribing to the idea that they would be saved by God during the Second Coming, Southcott's followers were undoubtedly managing their terror about their own mortality.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Their willingness to subscribe to a modern, unconventional concept to sustain these beliefs convinced Mary that they would be easier to con. But she knew that Joanna's followers would be easier marks if they believed she was one of them. So, Mary got her hands on one of the precious tokens that promised her a place in heaven and slid into character. Then, when she felt ready, she made her move.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
This week, we're concluding our story on Mary Bateman, also known as the Yorkshire Witch. We'll dive into Mary's dabble into poison and the doomsday plot that angered an entire city. Stay with us. In 1803, England was plagued by a major societal shift, the Industrial Revolution. Cities boomed before housing could accommodate rising populations.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She used a vinegar solution to etch the words, Christ is coming, onto an egg that her hen had laid. Then she ran it to the first person she could find, eager to show off a supposedly miraculous inscription. It was a neat parlor trick, but one that drew an outsized reaction. Upon seeing the egg, people grew hysterical.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
As word spread of the message from God, Mary decided she'd make a spectacle of her magic hen. She hosted daily viewings around town, promising visitors that for just a penny, they too could be saved when Christ returned. The swindle worked like a charm for a while, but Mary certainly had her skeptics. Several people questioned why Christ was spelled C-R-I-S-T without an H.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Mary might have been more educated than some women of the time, but the simple spelling error was a big mistake to make. But what really shattered public illusion was when one man set out to prove Mary was a fraud. He spied on her early in the morning, watching until the magic hen laid its egg.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Then he watched as Mary picked up the clean egg, added the message, and then forced the thing back into the bird. He was disgusted, but not surprised. He promptly exposed the scam to the public, who scorned Mary for her trickery. While they were relieved to learn that the second coming wasn't as near as they thought, they hated Mary for deceiving them.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Following her exposure, Mary sold the hen for a meager profit, no doubt still insisting that it was divine. But of course, the hen never laid another doomsday egg again. Having disgraced her family's name once again, Mary moved with her husband and children to a different area of the city. But even a new neighborhood wouldn't be enough for a completely fresh start.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
For a while, it was important that Mary keep a low profile. Public skepticism from her prophetic hen scheme made it harder for her to get away with her regular soothsaying plots. But that didn't mean she couldn't target other victims. Sometime after the hen incident, Mary's brother deserted the Royal Navy and rushed to the Bateman residence with his wife. His departure was a significant crime.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
In fact, if caught, he could face the death penalty. So he was happy to have somewhere to stay while he decided on his next move. Mary didn't care about her brother's legal woes, however. She was more concerned with how she could profit off him. So she got to plotting. One day, Mary pulled a repeat of a trick she'd used on her husband about a decade prior.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
She told her sister-in-law that she'd received word that the woman's father was on his deathbed. Of course, this was a complete lie, but Mary feigned sorrow before rushing her brother's wife out of the house. Alone with her brother, Mary was able to carry out the next part of her con. She told him that his wife had been disloyal to him and was spending his money recklessly.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Shoving a pen and paper into his hands, she urged him to write to his wife, explaining that their marriage was finished. So he did. Then, as he set out to send the letter, Mary zeroed in on what had motivated her from the start, the couple's traveling trunks. She pulled out anything of value and likely pawned it off. As far as plans go, it wasn't foolproof.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 2
Mary's brother was sure to ask questions when he saw the ransacked trunks. As for her sister-in-law, well, Mary suspected that woman would be gone for good once she received the letter. Unfortunately for Mary, that wasn't the case. The besmirched wife returned to the Bateman house, now fully aware that Mary had tricked them both.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Due to the graphic nature of these crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of animal abuse, child abuse, child sexual assault, insensitive language, and discussions of kidnapping. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. They say that you only find love once you stop looking for it.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But almost immediately, Wanda noticed a change in her groom's personality. While he never hit her, Mitchell's timidity gave way to bouts of screaming. Temper tantrums were now common. Wanda kept these rages to herself. She wanted others to think she'd found the perfect mate this time, but at home she felt alone again.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
So in the fall of 1986, 41-year-old Wanda reached out to her children and asked them to live with her. Only the three youngest, Derek, Mark, and Lou Ray, gave her the time of day. They still lived with their father while the older kids were out on their own. Life under Talmadge's roof was still hard for the children, even in Wanda's absence.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He hadn't found reliable work, and his temper was formidable. They thought it worthwhile to give their mom another shot. So by By the new year, the three kids moved in with Wanda and Mitchell. Wanda was elated, determined to prove she could be a better mother now. She even let Mark bring his dog, and little Lou Ray bring her pet bunny, Peaches.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But when the kids settled into the newlyweds' apartment, they noticed their mom was acting even weirder than before. For starters, Wanda was even more withdrawn than they remembered. She never looked them in the eye. She ignored their attempts at conversation. Within days of their return, she unearthed an old crutch, her dusty, discarded baby doll collection.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Once again, she began to care for them, as if they were alive. While we can't be entirely certain what led Wanda back to this coping mechanism, she may have been afraid of a second rejection from her children. If they went back to live with her father, she'd have to face her shortcomings as a mother a second time. But her dolls would never leave her.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Dr. Susan Morrow and Mary Lee Smith at the University of Utah Department of Educational Psychology conducted a study. They found that being sexually abused can produce intense emotions of grief, pain, and rage. Their research showed that to avoid threatening feelings, some victims nurtured themselves by playing with stuffed animals or dolls.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
One participant in the study confessed to playing with paper dolls. She said, As if she'd never missed a day caring for the stuffed babies, Wanda picked up right where she left off. She sewed new clothes for the dolls and swaddled them in cozy blankets. Wanda spoke to the dolls and marked their responses. She even carried them with her outside or buckled them into a car seat when she ran errands.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Her actual kids were keenly aware that something wasn't right with their mom. But it wasn't like they could bring their concerns to their mom's new husband. They noticed that something wasn't right with Mitchell either. He practiced hypnotism. He locked up the television at night. He even shot Mark's pet dog with his hunting rifle.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When Mark asked why he would kill a sweet dog, Mitchell remarked the creature had gone mad. Beyond Mitchell's obvious oddities, 12-year-old Lou Ray was frightened by something in him she couldn't describe. His glances at her were invasive, as if he was staring past the surface of her body to make his way into her soul. If she gave him a hug goodnight, he held her just a tad too long.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
To quiet the noise in her head, her mother suggested she take up piano, but even that became pathological. She practiced maniacally, night and day. At times, her mother had to drag her away, kicking and screaming, so her sisters could practice too. By 1952, seven-year-old Wanda's anxiety increased.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When she greeted him in the morning, he kissed her just a bit too eagerly. But Luray never complained. One night during the family's nightly prayer session, Luray was kneeling between Mitchell and her mother. While Wanda was lost in prayer, Mitchell nudged his stepdaughter. When she turned to see what he wanted, he pulled something from his pocket, a stash of explicit photos.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Slowly, he shuffled through them for Luray. Luray turned from Mitchell to finish her prayers, excused herself, and ran to her bedroom. She never told her mom about how uncomfortable Mitchell made her. Soon she'd realize that it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Her mom was too far gone. One day soon after Luray's 14th birthday, she came home from school and the apartment smelled divine.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Her mother was in the best mood. When Luray asked what's for dinner, Wanda smiled. Mitchell answered, chicken. Then Wanda told her daughter to wash up. Supper would be ready soon. Luray was starving. At the table, she dug in. It had been so long since she'd had a home-cooked meal, she didn't come up for air. Lu-Rei cleaned her plate. Grateful, she thanked her mom and stepdad for the tasty dinner.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Wanda giggled. Mitchell laughed, too. But when Lu-Rei asked what was so funny, Wanda said nothing. Mitchell said they'd had fun cooking for their baby. The next morning, Lu-Rei got ready for school. Before breakfast, she went to the porch to feed her rabbit, Peaches, but the cage was empty. She ran into the kitchen to find Wanda at the stove. "'What happened to Peaches?' she cried.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Robotically, Wanda replied, "'You ate her for dinner.'" Luray was disgusted, mortified. Days later, she ran away, back to her father's house. Apoplectic, Wanda didn't understand why her little girl left. But Mitchell assured her Luray was overreacting. Everything would be okay. She'd come back home for sure. And if she didn't, he'd go out and find Wanda a brand new daughter to love.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
In 1990, 45-year-old Wanda Barzee tried to reconnect with her youngest children, inviting them to live with her again. But the kids noticed right away that her new husband, Brian David Mitchell, had a troubling effect on Wanda. It all came to a head when Wanda fed her youngest child, 14-year-old Lou Ray, her pet rabbit for dinner. She ran away and never came back.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Wanda decided if she couldn't have Lou Ray, she wanted nothing to do with the other two kids living with her, so she asked her sons to get out too. She told all of her kids they were dead to her. Having severed her family ties, Wanda and Mitchell's lives completely unraveled. By 1995, temp work dried up. Bills went unpaid. Wanda neglected to pay the rent on their tiny apartment in Salt Lake City.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They got kicked out, scrambled to find a new home, then got kicked out again. Eviction became a pattern. They barely scraped by. Mitchell coped by throwing himself deep into his faith, which started to look less and less like Mormonism. He turned his back on materialism, too. Little by little, they inched away from the Mormon church, even though it had originally brought them together.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She grew even more bashful as she aged and clung to her mother's leg for far longer than any child should. Even her little sister sensed that Wanda was, at heart, a follower. While little Evelyn could be pretty self-sufficient, Wanda trailed her mother, forever angling for warmth and attention. She just wasn't a fan of being left alone.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
The couple could no longer endorse the church's greediness. They insisted they were the only true disciples in a world of hypocritical sinners. Mitchell even accused the church of ignoring the destitute. The more he slammed the church, the more he realized his purpose. He'd been called by God to be a prophet to help the homeless find their faith.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Mitchell told Wanda he had access to the spirit world. They held hours-long seances together. He could hear the voices of forgotten prophets. She hung on his every word. When Wanda asked what messages the prophets had for Mitchell, he said they wanted him to sell their worldly possessions.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Based on what we know about Mitchell, it seems very likely that he truly believed he was communicating with heavenly prophets. If this is the case, the voices he heard might have been hallucinations. This would be consistent with his eventual diagnosis of a delusional disorder. But Wanda had no idea her husband might be schizophrenic, so she felt compelled to do what the prophets said.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
After all, she was the perpetual follower. She let go of almost everything. The only thing she insisted on keeping was her favorite dusty old baby doll. By 1993, they'd sold all their belongings and changed their names to David and Elida. Mitchell chose his new name to honor the Old Testament's King David, who he believed was Jesus' ancestor.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
And Elida meant eternity of God, which to them seemed a right fit for Wanda. In 1995, they shunned modern apartment living entirely. Instead, they scraped up enough money to purchase a rusty trailer. Wanda and Mitchell rattled across Utah, calling on family, but the visits were fraught with tension. They'd accuse relatives of being too materialistic or hurl insulting epithets.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Needless to say, they quickly wore out their welcome. So they set out in the trailer to crisscross the country. They headed to Ohio, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Alaska. Wherever they went, Mitchell introduced himself as a preacher. On street corners or in parks, he spun nonsensical, radical gobbledygook, mostly on deaf ears.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Sometimes they panhandled for loose change or food, but they never earned enough. Eventually, the camper was repossessed. By the end of 1995, 50-year-old Wanda and 42-year-old Mitchell were truly homeless. They shacked up at shelters or camped along roadsides. In 1997, the couple hitchhiked home to Salt Lake City. They wandered downtown looking for shelter, but couldn't find anything.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
So they called the only person they could think to take them in, someone they hadn't seen in three years, Wanda's mother, Dora. It didn't take long for Dora to realize that her brilliant daughter was long gone. The Wanda she knew and loved had been replaced by a lost soul. There was nothing in her eyes. No love, no want. Her dissociative behaviors had taken over.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
To Dora, there was only one part of her baby girl she recognized anymore. The follower. Wanda had experienced multiple complex traumas throughout her life. The sexual abuse by her father as a young girl, the physical abuse by her first husband, the emotional loss of her children. It all began to add up and eclipse or reveal the truest parts of her.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
perhaps because bad things happened to her when her mom and sisters weren't around. Wanda was allegedly molested by her father, Marvin, when she was just a girl. Notable psychiatrist Dr. Noel C. Gardner confirmed after reading Wanda's private diary that Barzee had emotional problems related to abuse in her childhood, so she had lots of emotional concerns.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
For Wanda, checking out seemed the only way to escape the emotions set off by her distressing past. She was happy to be a follower to Mitchell. She filled the role of disciple to a self-styled prophet.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
According to a study by Italy's Del Ponte Hospital and the University of Insubria, although dissociative symptoms are a defense mechanism against stress associated with traumatic events, they also may arise as a way to diminish the emotional responses triggered by traumatic memories, even after a long period from the traumatic event.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Thus, thoughts are disconnected from emotions, and some behaviors can become automatic. Wanda disconnected her thoughts from her emotions almost entirely. The result? An emptiness that caused her to disappear behind robotic behaviors. Dora tried to warn her daughter that Mitchell had gone off the rails, but Wanda couldn't see it.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Instead, she worked to convince her mother that Mitchell was a man of God, with her best interests at heart. But Dora didn't buy it. She and Wanda spent the days doing chores and making clothes, but argued non-stop about Mitchell. All the while, he was hatching a plan. He told Dora that he and Wanda would only stay a few more days.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They had to isolate themselves so they could focus on building their new religion. Mitchell confessed he'd begun writing a new faith's holy book. He'd secured a teepee and wanted to take Wanda to live in the Wasatch Mountains, north of Salt Lake. When Dora voiced her dissent about his plans, Mitchell flew into a fury. Seeding, he demanded Wanda grab the few things she owned.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Again, she did as she was told. On their way out, Mitchell slammed the door so hard it shook the house. That was the last time Wanda saw a close family member for years. Through 1998 and 1999, Wanda was entirely at the mercy of Mitchell, following wherever his fancy led them. They lived on the streets of Salt Lake City or hid in the hills.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
All the while, Mitchell recited his new doctrine to his wife. Wanda took down his dictation in perfect calligraphy. On Thanksgiving Day 2000, as they were finishing up their new religious text, Mitchell changed his name yet again, this time to Emmanuel. And he demanded they rid themselves of their street clothes. Wanda stitched simple robes in colors fit for royalty.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She wanted her man to feel confident in deep purples and pure white. Newly clothed, Mitchell was optimistic. He took to panhandling, preaching as he begged. Wanda remained by his side, a dead-eyed, silent, subservient bride. By December 2000, 55-year-old Wanda had become nothing more than Mitchell's prop for begging.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He'd point her out as commuters passed, shouting that this poor woman needed charity, that she'd lost all she had. Wanda never put up a fight. She'd given into him fully. In some way, though she had nothing, she still believed she had all she ever wanted. A man to love and protect her. And she wanted to support him.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
So when Mitchell told her he'd had a revelation, she asked him to share every detail. Mitchell told his wife that God made him the prophet Immanuel David Isaiah, and she was now to be called Hephzibah Eladah Isaiah. He said God told him he should accept seven new brides and that they would be Hephzibah's sister wives.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Wanda was to accept these girls as thy dearest and choicest friends from all eternity. God was explicit. that Emmanuel's brides should be very young to ensure their minds and spirits weren't yet fully formed. Shaken by the news that God asked Mitchell to take on new wives, Wanda questioned him, but he reminded her of his promise to give her a new daughter when Lou Ray left.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Researchers have long tried to parse out the effects of childhood sexual abuse. It's become clearer lately that such trauma may negatively disrupt brain development and function. That kind of child abuse may also predict lifelong psychopathology. Before we continue with Wanda's psychology, I'm not a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist, but I have done a lot of research for the show.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He asked her to think of his new brides as her babies. Wanda agreed. As they prepared to search for the brides, Wanda gripped her last baby doll tightly. She never let it go. Soon after, Wanda and Mitchell completed their radical doctrine. Mitchell titled the 27-page book, The Book of Emmanuel David Isaiah. Finally, the time was right to spread the word.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
The pair washed up in a mountain stream, they cut their hair, and Mitchell shaved. Now somewhat presentable, they took their book to the streets. The plan, as always, was to preach and beg, preach and beg. It was a crisp November morning when well-to-do mother and wife Lois Smart took her daughters out for a shopping date.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
In front of the mall, she was stopped by a slender, soft-spoken panhandler with big, gray eyes. The beggar was clean-cut and polite, but clearly malnourished. Lois took pity on him and reached into her pocketbook. The man asked her about her faith, and she said she was Mormon. He said he was a preacher for Salt Lake's homeless. Impressed, Lois asked the panhandler his name. He replied, Emmanuel.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She handed him $5 and set off down the street with her two young daughters, 9-year-old Mary Catherine and 14-year-old Elizabeth. Mitchell tagged behind the smarts for a moment, carrying on the conversation with Lois, but locking his eyes on young Elizabeth. He was fascinated by her. Her innocence was apparent. Suddenly, Mitchell knew... This child was to be the first of his new wives.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She would be his gift to Wanda, the new daughter he'd promised over a decade ago. Then, as if prompted by God, Lois made Mitchell an offer, a job. Her husband couldn't pay much, but they needed some help with a leaky roof. If he was interested, the work would take about a week. Mitchell eagerly accepted. As the smart ladies said their goodbyes, Mitchell's thoughts raced to concoct a plan.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He watched them cross State Street and kept his gaze on Elizabeth as she faded from view. When he was sure she was gone, he raced to his wife. His voice trembled as he shared his divine news. He found her. He found Wanda's new baby. The only thing left to do was bring her home. It was a brisk October morning in 2001.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
48-year-old Brian David Mitchell slowed his breathing as he approached the Smart family home. The 6,600-square-foot monstrosity boasted affluence. This house and its surrounding Federal Heights neighborhood were represented everything he and Wanda loathed about materialistic Mormon families. But the homeless preacher ignored his ire.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He had more important worries today as he knocked on the front door. When it opened, a handsome mortgage broker in his mid-40s, Ed Smart, and his wife Lois welcomed Mitchell inside. Just then, the Smart's daughters, 14-year-old Elizabeth and 9-year-old Mary Catherine, scurried by. Mitchell extended an eager good morning to the girls.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
According to the article Brain and Mind Integration, Childhood Sexual Abuse Survivors, the psychological trauma of childhood sexual abuse usually results in deleterious mental and health effects such as depression and anxiety disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, dissociative disorders, and recall impairments.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They offered polite smirks and shuffled up to their shared bedroom. Mitchell clocked their course upstairs and down the hall. He'd met Lois, Mary Catherine, and Elizabeth earlier that week while panhandling. Lois had taken pity on him and offered him work at the house, which he enthusiastically accepted. But during their interaction, it was Elizabeth, the pretty one, who piqued his interest.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
To him, she would make the perfect virginal bride. Ed inadvertently interrupted Mitchell's stare by suggesting they patch some worn shingles on the leaky roof before clearing the yard of autumn leaves. When the day's work ended, Ed handed Mitchell $50. He asked the panhandler to return the next day, and Mitchell agreed. But it would be 15 months before he found himself inside the smart home again.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Mitchell raced back to his makeshift camp in the Wasatch Hills. There, his wife Wanda desperately tried to follow as he frothed at the mouth, ranting about plans of abduction. He insisted they bring Elizabeth home to the woods. The beautiful girl would be his new bride and Wanda's true sister-wife. Wanda was well-versed in her husband's prophecy.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
After all, she'd transcribed 27 pages of his dogmatic rambling in fine calligraphy. She knew God planned for Mitchell to marry seven young and comely virgin brides, but Wanda always assumed these sister wives would be raised as her new daughters. Having been estranged from her own children for the better part of a decade, Wanda was once thrilled at the prospect of a new family.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But now that the day had arrived, she was wounded by Mitchell's desire for new spouses. She even wrote in her diary about it. In the end, however, she talked herself into accepting Mitchell's decree as an Abrahamic test. Mitchell always said a time would come when Wanda would have to make sacrifices to prove her devotion to God, just as Abraham had to when God demanded he kill his only son.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
And while Wanda had no desire to share her marital bed with another woman, she'd given up on thinking for herself some time ago. It was easier to endure God's test and obey her prophet husband. That was the deal she made in exchange for her husband's love and protection. Not that he was much of a protector.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They lived in a jerry-rigged teepee in the wild, urinated in buckets, and begged for scraps of food. But Wanda made every effort to keep up her end of the bargain because she couldn't bear to be on her own again. While it might be hard to understand why Wanda would continue to follow Mitchell, it's important to remember her past.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She was sexually abused by her father and routinely beaten by her first husband. By the time she met her second husband, her fears of being used, hurt, abused, or abandoned guided her every move. Mitchell was Wanda's safety, and she clung to him no matter what.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Before we continue with Wanda's psychology, I'm not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but I have done a lot of research for this show. According to her article, Terror, Love, and Brainwashing, social psychologist and cult expert Dr. Alexandra Stain said, People run to a safe haven when they're afraid.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
In some cases, abused children dissociate by digging deep into an imaginary life with unseen friends. The younger the child, the more intricate their imagined life may become. In fact, the youngest children who dissociate may not only set up a handful of imaginary relationships, but they might also throw themselves into unprovoked tantrums that come seemingly from nowhere.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
If the brainwasher has been successful, the recruit, now having had fear instilled by the brainwasher, runs to the only safe haven available, the brainwasher himself. This creates a trauma bond that is difficult to break so long as the person remains isolated from alternate safe havens. The person goes into a freeze mode and is unable to think clearly,
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
This explains why perfectly intelligent people can find themselves unable to rationally view a brainwasher. The lack of alternate information and true havens undermine a follower's cognitive processes on matters regarding the brainwasher. Wanda Barzee didn't seem to have a will of her own anymore. Mitchell's prophetic delusions became Wanda's safe haven, her reality.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
So when he insisted she help him kidnap Elizabeth Smart, Wanda complied. It's unclear why they waited so long to put their plan in motion, but about a year and a half after he worked for the Smarts, on June 5, 2002, 49-year-old Mitchell was ready to do the deed. He left 56-year-old Wanda to prepare the camp while he retrieved his new bride.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
It took hours to make it down the mountain, but once he found himself outside the Smarts' home, it didn't take long for him to discover a way in. Earlier that evening, Lois Smart had burned dinner. To clear the smoke, she opened a narrow window off the patio, but she neglected to close it before going to bed. The cracked window presented an open invitation to Mitchell.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He used his pocket knife to cut the screen and slipped into the house. Once inside, he tread carefully so as not to wake the sleeping Smarts. He kept thinking, if God wanted him to take the girl, he would allow it. With the exception of the light creaks of the floorboards under his feet, the house remained silent. He crept upstairs. In the darkness, he slithered down the hall undetected.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Slowly, he turned the door handle to the child's room, the heat of adrenaline coursing through his veins. Though the room was dim, his eyes landed on her body. He inched over and, for a moment, hovered above Elizabeth, who slept soundly next to her little sister. Mitchell almost hated to wake the child. Still, he placed the steel blade against her neck. She woke startled.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Before she could make a sound, Mitchell leaned in and whispered for the girl to stay silent and get out of bed, or he'd kill her and her whole family. Suddenly trapped in a nightmare, Elizabeth kept quiet to stay alive. The kidnapper pushed her toward the door, and she knew better than to fight back for fear he'd hurt the little sister she left sleeping in her bed.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Mitchell moved his hostage down the stairs, and when he noticed a lineup of the family's shoes, he demanded Elizabeth grab a pair. Then he pushed her out into the frigid night air. Mitchell guided his hostage into the foothills behind the home as her family slept. The night was wet and cold.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
If a car passed or Mitchell heard something suspicious, he threw the girl into the brush and lay on top of her, knife to her throat. They climbed for hours until they finally reached an open grove of old oak trees. Mitchell pointed and said that his wife was up there. Then he yelled, "'Hepsiba!' Wanda appeared and called back, Emmanuel? Wanda sized up the child.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She pulled the girl into her, but this was no hug. Instead, it was a dominant grip, a threat that demanded the hostage's obedience or else. Satisfied she'd communicated who was boss, Wanda jerked the girl into the tent. She pushed her to the washbin and barked at her to take off her clothes or she'd have Emmanuel rip them off.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
"'Wanda displayed what could be seen as dissociation "'with her vast collection of baby dolls. "'To Wanda, her toy babies were as real to her as her sisters. "'She cared for them as intensely as she practiced piano. "'A diligent doll mom, she swaddled them up in blankets "'and stroked their little stuffed heads.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Elizabeth tried to run, but Mitchell intercepted her at the tent's entrance. He grabbed her and said if she let out so much as a whimper, he'd duct tape her mouth shut. Then he threw her onto the ground. She begged him to leave her be. She screamed that she was just a child, but it made no difference. Mitchell advanced. Elizabeth blurted out that she hadn't even had her period yet.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
This gave Mitchell pause, but when he shot an inquisitive look at Wanda to ask if it was wise to proceed, she nodded that it was. The first night of her captivity, Mitchell raped 14-year-old Elizabeth, and Wanda Barzee watched it happen, doing nothing to stop it. Wanda made no effort to comfort her hostage. She forced the girl to sleep on the hard dirt with moldy old blankets.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She ignored the girl's bruises and cuts. Even when Mitchell wrapped an industry-grade steel cable around the girl's ankle to keep her from escaping, Wanda just grinned. Elizabeth tugged at the wire. She ripped at the steel cord until her fingers bled, but there was no hope. It was strong, bolted to a tree.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Even when Elizabeth's fitful attempts to free herself gave way to great sobs, Wanda ignored her. The morning after the abduction, Wanda finally offered comfort. She said it was the girl's wedding day, which meant it was her time to cry. So she'd best get it out, but know that she wouldn't be allowed to go on crying forever.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When the tears dried, Mitchell said Elizabeth was Wanda's handmaiden, the second wife. Wanda was mother and Elizabeth was slave. Then he disrobed the girl and asked her to follow closely as he and Wanda played Adam and Eve. Wanda stood compliant while Mitchell began his anatomy class.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He pointed to the first wife's private parts and explained what he intended to do to them, and to Elizabeth's parts, too. When he saw Elizabeth had closed her eyes in fear or disgust, he erupted in anger. He raged, "'You're self-righteous and weak, no better than a homeless prostitute.'" Then Mitchell said, The Bible teaches that before one can rise above sin, one has to descend beneath it.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Hepzibah and I will show you the low things of the world, pornography, booze, and drugs. Then you can ascend with us. Wanda backed him completely buying into Mitchell's delusions once again. She said God demanded they all get in the gutter before rising to show their holy worth. At every turn Wanda proved herself Mitchell's willing accomplice reinforcing her commitment to his invented faith.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
This was painfully true for the subject of today's episode, Wanda Barzee, who had a habit of looking in the wrong places to begin with. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and welcome back to Criminal Couples. Today's installment comes from female criminals. When Wanda met David Brian Mitchell, she thought she'd finally found her white knight. But it was a match made in despair.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She even stood there and watched again when after the biology lesson Mitchell raped Elizabeth for the second time in 24 hours. For the next several months, the days repeated themselves as if on loop. According to her autobiography, My Story, Mitchell raped Elizabeth almost every single day, and Wanda never intervened or tried to help. Not once.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
"'She clutched her babies so tight "'there was usually no prying them from her skinny arms.' Wanda rarely let the babies out of her sight. She protected them fiercely from harm. In fact, if her sisters tried so much as to touch her dolls, she'd scream at the top of her lungs, She's mine! Her sisters and mother learned to steer clear of Wanda's doll collection.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Having been brainwashed by her husband, she'd given into his system of belief. Even though Wanda was a mother, even though Wanda herself had suffered sexual abuse, she had no sympathy for Elizabeth. Perhaps because she was no longer Wanda, she was Hepzibah, and Hepzibah's duty was to Emmanuel. Therefore, it wasn't her place to interject or condemn the rape of the child.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Her husband's delusions were her own. She didn't see a problem. According to the article, Shared Psychotic Disorder, by psychiatric researchers Firas Al-Saif and Yassir Al-Khalili, shared psychotic disorder is an unusual mental disorder characterized by sharing a delusion among two or more people in a close relationship.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
The inducer, who has a psychotic disorder with delusions, influences the induced with a specific belief. The majority of cases were among married or common law couples with poor interaction with society.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
The induced can undergo influence under frightening conditions in the absence of social comparison, and the conviction to certain ideas will eventually prevail as the only solution to maintain a mutual relationship. The only thing Wanda really wanted was to maintain her relationship with Mitchell. She couldn't face the thought of having another husband walk away.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Still, she grew upset over his attention toward their young hostage. Try as she might, she couldn't contain her mounting jealousy. By September of 2002, 56-year-old Wanda began lashing out. She fell into fits of screaming, calling Mitchell lustful and berating him for obeying every carnal impulse. But Mitchell could usually calm Wanda with little shows of repentance.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When Wanda got upset, Mitchell begged her for a blessing only she could perform. This always softened her mood. She would take Mitchell's hands and, together, they would pray. During these blessings, Mitchell reminded Wanda he was the chosen prophet, but that he still needed her. He would say that even Moses had the help and guidance of his family, his older brother, Aaron.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Mitchell needed the guidance and understanding of his first wife, and she believed him. In these moments, she re-upped, choosing to stay strong for her prophet husband. Usually, after these rows, Mitchell felt newly energized. To make good, he headed into town and refused to return until he could bring back food. One night, Mitchell returned to camp, thrilled to share the booty he'd scored.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He snuck into the tent and quietly opened boxes of fast food, allowing the aroma to waft and wake the wives. Wanda and Elizabeth ransacked through the bags of stolen snacks. Over the moon that her man actually provided for her, Wanda uncorked a bottle of wine and raised a toast. Mitchell beamed.
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Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He told the wives that Christ's true disciples recognized him as their prophet and handed him money, food, whatever he said he needed. In this case, that even included a bucket of fried chicken. Mitchell poured himself a hefty glass of wine. He ripped a biscuit into three pieces and recited the prayer for the sacrament. Once he'd gulped his booze down, he passed it to Wanda.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She partook and gave the glass to Elizabeth. At first, the hostage refused the alcohol, but Mitchell insisted she drink it. Wanda, too, urged her sister wife to chug it down. When Elizabeth refused again, Mitchell threw a fit. He marched over to Elizabeth and said if she didn't drink at all, right then and there, she wouldn't get any food. But she was starving. She needed to eat.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They assumed she'd lighten up as she grew older, but she didn't. But even as she approached adolescence, Evelyn was troubled by her sister's intense behavior. But she chalked it up to Wanda being sensitive. As a teen, Wanda showed no interest in boys. Her classmates wondered why such a beautiful, smart girl never went on dates. But they all assumed Wanda was just painfully shy.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
And though she had never touched alcohol before, she took a small sip. But Mitchell insisted she drink more. He pinned her down and forced the wine down her throat. He filled another glass and repeated the torture. After Elizabeth swallowed every last drop, Mitchell tossed her a bucket of fried chicken. She hadn't eaten in close to two weeks.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Binging on biscuits and oily meat, Elizabeth thought she might throw up, but she couldn't stop herself. She was ravenous. Meanwhile, Wanda and Mitchell devoured their food, too. All the while, they laughed at Elizabeth. When she finally stopped eating, Mitchell made her wash everything down with more booze. The captors noticed she might be sick, so they tossed a metal bowl in her direction.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But Elizabeth was too drunk to aim. She threw up violently, then passed out. The fact that she was unconscious was no deterrent for Mitchell. Again, he raped her. The next morning, Elizabeth woke disoriented. Her hair was crusted with vomit, and her spirit was broken. If only she could send some signal home. Down in Salt Lake City proper, a search was underway, but to no avail.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
It had been months since Elizabeth's abduction, and most of her family had given up hope. The one person who believed Elizabeth was still out there was her little sister, 10-year-old Mary Catherine. Mary Catherine had actually been awake when Elizabeth was taken. She'd pretended to be asleep because she was scared of the strange man in their room.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She told her family she thought she remembered the kidnapper from some work he'd done on the house. She said it had to be the preacher from the street, Emmanuel. But when Mitchell worked for the Smarts, he was clean-shaven with short hair. He passed himself off as a legitimate preacher, and the composite drawings the police had worked up were based on that visual.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Had the police considered Emmanuel at all, they'd be looking for the wrong man. Meanwhile, up at the mountain camp, Wanda continued Elizabeth's religious education. She recited their doctrine, the book of Immanuel David Isaiah, out loud for the girl to absorb. When she ran out of religious text, she read her journal aloud.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Every second Wanda kept Elizabeth engaged was a second she didn't have to watch her husband prey on a lesser wife. But the longer they lived with Elizabeth, the more Wanda saw her as competition. Shackled to the trees, the child was never out of sight. She even slept between Wanda and her man. Wanda needed space, a change of scenery.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
So the next time Mitchell announced he was heading into the city for provisions, Wanda insisted she and Elizabeth join him. Mitchell eventually caved on one condition. The wives had to wear veils. Wanda stitched veils of thick cotton onto canvas headdresses. The head covers shrouded anything above the eyebrows, and the veils hid everything below the eyes.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When they wore them, both Wanda and Elizabeth were unrecognizable. Pleased with the costumes, they hiked down to town. But at the base of the mountain, Mitchell stopped to remind his hostage that he had no problem killing her. He'd kill her whole family if she gave him reason, and Wanda confirmed. He'll do it, and you won't be able to stop him. He is Emmanuel.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Mitchell led the girls through town in search of food and drink. He caught wind of a party. Wanda had no interest, but Mitchell put his foot down. There would be free food and free booze, and they couldn't afford to pass that up. By morning, Mitchell was so wasted, he couldn't make it back up to camp. So Wanda decided they would buy time at the library. It was a good hideout, too.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
So it came as quite a surprise to her schoolmates and to Wanda herself when in 1963, days after graduating high school, she attracted a young boy from church. Wanda sat on the pew beside her mother. She focused on the preacher when she heard a soft psst. She turned and an eccentric boy passed her a note. It read, Hi. She stared ahead, ignoring him, but he was persistent.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Until the trio was approached by a casually dressed man. As he drew close, he pulled out a badge. The man was a homicide detective and had a few questions. Wanda's eyes darted to Mitchell, but he stayed cool. The officer said he'd received several phone calls suggesting the veiled girl could be a child reported as missing. He asked Elizabeth to remove her veil so he could see her face.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
At that moment, Wanda felt Elizabeth light up with hope. Her own breath, however, grew tight with panic. She clamped her nails down on Elizabeth's leg and dug into her thigh. Mitchell was sober enough to think on his feet. He claimed that Elizabeth was his daughter. He told the officer that only her family could see her face, as she was pure and needed to be protected from the sin in men's eyes.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
All the while, Elizabeth stared at her potential rescuer, wanting so badly to rip off her veil and reveal her identity. but she was too scared Mitchell and Wanda would go after her family, so she remained still and silent. And eventually, Mitchell convinced the officer to continue on his way. It was too close a call. On the way back to base camp, Mitchell plotted a move.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
It was too dangerous to stay near Salt Lake, and with winter on the horizon, it would be too cold to stay on the mountain. They had to move somewhere warm and sunny. Suddenly, he knew where to take the girl. San Diego, California. Fourteen-year-old Elizabeth Smart was taken at knife point from her childhood home in Salt Lake City.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Her kidnapper, Brian David Mitchell, brought her to a camp in the woods, where he and his wife, Wanda Barzee, raped, beat, starved, and humiliated the child to the extreme. To Elizabeth, Wanda was more of a monster than Mitchell. Wanda knew the depth of the girl's suffering, but never lifted a finger to help.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Elizabeth wondered how another woman, a mother even, could stand by and let this abuse happen. As winter approached, Mitchell decided it was time to leave Utah. They loaded onto a bus and rode 800 miles to a campsite in San Diego County. But this move was by no means a fresh start. By the time the trio arrived, Wanda was sick of Mitchell's neglect.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He never looked at her the way he gazed at Elizabeth. Entirely insecure, Wanda demanded some changes. She felt jilted and needed to remind her husband that the girl was only just the second wife. But Mitchell never took Wanda's concerns seriously. He let her rage simmer, constantly boiling under the surface.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Every day, Mitchell went out in search of food and booze, but every day he returned to camp empty-handed. Wanda and Elizabeth were starving to death. Finally, in late December, Mitchell came back with good news. He told Wanda he'd been invited for a home-cooked meal by someone he met while preaching on a street corner.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He boasted of chicken, mashed potatoes, green beans, and cake, but he'd brought none of it back for his wives. Wanda flew into a rage. She asked Mitchell why he thought so little of her. She laid into him for shoving his face full of food, but coming back with nothing but a story about it. She screamed she'd been eating like a mouse. How could he bring back nothing?
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Mitchell reminded Wanda who she was speaking to. He warned her to be careful, for he was the true prophet. But she couldn't stop. Weeks and weeks of pent-up rage had been sharpened by hunger and exhaustion. She kept on screaming until finally he fled from the camp. Mitchell stayed away all day and night, and he didn't come back the next morning. Or the next.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Losing him was always Wanda's worst fear, and now he truly was gone. Mentally, she'd beat herself up for causing his disappearance. If she could get a do-over, she'd never have yelled at him in the first place. At least a week went by before he came back. At first, she was elated to see him. But then he told her where he'd been. Jail. He was arrested for drunkenly wandering the street.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He handed over a few more notes before closing with, I'm Talmadge Thompson. What's your name? Dora answered for her daughter, mouthing, "'Wanda,' to the new suitor. The motherly endorsement was enough for Talmadge to send an alluring, "'Will you go out with me?' The off-center couple married in 1964.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He expected Wanda's sympathy, but she was all out. She hated him for getting meals in jail while she had to forage tree nuts. She railed on him for getting to sleep in a real bed and take showers while she and the girl were left for dead. Wanda had enough. For days, she'd worried that something had happened to him. Instead, he was just relaxing in jail, living the sweet life.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Irate, she reached for Mitchell's serrated knife and pressed it against her own neck. Death would be better than one more minute with him. But Mitchell was nonplussed. She doubled down. She was going to do it, going to kill herself right then and there. Still, Mitchell offered no discernible reaction. Wanda stormed off through the brush.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She was gone for at least a full day, and when she returned, she was different. Fire filled Wanda's eyes. Slowly, she moved to grab the book of Immanuel David Isaiah. With her hand on their scripture, her eyes went dead. Then she methodically ripped out every scribbled page. She let the sheets of calligraphy blow away in the wind as she tore, shredded, and destroyed.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
At first, Mitchell just laughed. He didn't need the written word. The doctrine was locked in his mind. But when Wanda's outburst came to an end, she explained she'd been with Satan's hosts all night. Mitchell's ears perked up. Now she was strong and knew what her next course had to be. She had to leave San Diego. As if rehearsed, Elizabeth chimed in with support.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She said it was time to hitchhike home. Surprisingly, Mitchell agreed. The trio hitchhiked back to Utah, clad in old street clothes and cheap wigs. They weren't recognized or even questioned. By March 12, 2003, they were only about 20 miles from home. But their hitchhiking luck ran out. They couldn't find a ride for the last leg. They'd have to take a bus instead.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Worried that someone might recognize Elizabeth, Mitchell made her wear a gray-haired wig. The bus was packed. Forced to stand, Wanda surveyed the other passengers. She knew she and her crew stood out. They were in too close a proximity to maintain anonymity. The other passengers were clean, well-dressed. They were in dingy rags. Then Wanda noticed a man staring at Elizabeth. Her heart raced.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She nudged Mitchell. When he made contact with the man, the guy asked, "'Who are you?' Mitchell ignored the stranger, but the man followed up with, "'Where you headed?' Again, Mitchell kept his head down, but then the guy said, "'Why is she wearing a gray wig?' Mitchell curtly responded that it was a religious practice and pulled the stop cord. He and Wanda quickly edged Elizabeth off the bus.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When they were in the clear, Mitchell grabbed her. Shaking her, he said, "'Once I get you back to camp, you will never leave. I will not put myself in danger again. I am too important to the world.'" Just then, police sirens blipped. As the captor berated his hostage on the street, a cop car pulled up beside them. Wanda cursed and pulled Elizabeth along the sidewalk, but it was too late.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
In the beginning, Talmadge was a prince, always romancing 19-year-old Wanda and offering affection. As newlyweds, they welcomed their first daughter, Rhonda." By 1966, Wanda had three babies to care for. Already an anxious person, she was quickly overwhelmed. But Talmadge wanted to have a child every year. By Wanda's fourth pregnancy, she'd fallen into a deep depression.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
An officer approached. The trio walked fast, heads down, but then another police car arrived, and another one. Mitchell ignored them as they called out, Sir, we need to talk to you. Please stop. We need to see your ID. Finally, the officers pulled Elizabeth from Wanda's grip. One kindly asked, What's your name? The officers' eyes assured Elizabeth she was safe.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She opened her mouth and three words trickled out. I am Elizabeth. The cops pulled Elizabeth into a rescue car and brought her back to the station where she was reunited with her father. Since she'd been taken nine months earlier, the police had undergone a wild manhunt. Finally, they had their kidnappers. Finally, Elizabeth was home.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Criminal reports were filed on March 18, 2003, in Utah State Court, charging Wanda Barzee and her co-defendant, Brian David Mitchell, with two counts each of aggravated burglary, aggravated sexual assault, and one count of aggravated kidnapping. Before proceedings could begin, the courts had to decide if Wanda was mentally competent to stand trial.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They needed to determine if her delusions would persist now that she'd been separated from Mitchell. But her mental health issues extended farther back than her interactions with her husband, nearly 20 years. The evaluation showed that, even with space from Mitchell, Wanda was delusional. She was not fit to participate in court proceedings.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Instead, she was ordered to spend time in treatment at a state facility. It was a long time coming. Wanda had struggled with untreated mental illness for most of her life. Even Wanda's children confirmed that her episodes had always been a taboo topic in their home. Her son Derek said that he and his siblings knew their mother was sick, but she had a lifetime of refusing help.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
While Wanda was in treatment, the legal proceedings marched forward. On March 5, 2008, she was formally charged with kidnapping and unlawful transportation of a minor. Wanda pled guilty in federal court. The following year, the Utah court sentenced Wanda to 15 years in federal prison. She served seven years in a federal penitentiary and was transferred to the state prison in early 2016.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But in April of that year, the state board realized they miscalculated her sentencing terms. They credited her for her time in prison and the state hospital pre-conviction, but failed to credit her for her time in federal prison. At her parole hearing on June 12, 2018, Wanda's lawyer addressed the issue, contending that her federal sentence ran concurrently with her state sentence.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Thus, the board issued a revised sentence set to end on September 19, 2018. Due to the miscalculation, Wanda was released six years earlier than anticipated. Her release was controversial, but ultimately upheld. As of this episode's release in 2021, Wanda is 75 years old. She's a registered sex offender and was last reported living near a Salt Lake City elementary school.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
And hosted by Vanessa Richardson. This episode of Criminal Couples comes from Female Criminals, hosted by Vanessa Richardson. Sound design by Anthony Valsick, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden, and Aaron Larson.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
This episode of Serial Killers was written by John Levinson, with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon, fact-checking by Haley Milliken, and research by Mickey Taylor.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Still, Talmadge apparently insisted on expanding the family, whether Wanda liked it or not. As the years passed and her responsibilities increased, Talmadge's behavior became juvenile. He compulsively showed off with attention-seeking dances or by jumping off tables. Though he projected a larger-than-life spirit in public, in private he became a different man.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
At home, Talmadge reportedly grew bullish, domineering. Suddenly, he had no problem berating his wife. When words weren't enough, he hit Wanda and the kids. But Wanda hid her husband's alleged abuse from church friends by peddling images of the perfect family. She gussied up her kids just as she did her childhood collection of baby dolls, suits for her boys and tailored dresses for the girls.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She was desperate for her neighbor's approval, but acquaintances felt interactions with Wanda were forced, insincere. They commented that she seemed weirdly submissive. Her sister always said she was a follower, and others agreed. Nobody could get a sense of who the real Wanda was. Adding to the stress at home, Talmadge couldn't hold down a job.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
He surrendered to financial difficulty, which only made him angrier. He spent money they didn't have and drove the family to duress. Ashamed, he fled home regularly during the 1970s. Wanda tried to keep the family afloat. She paid what bills she could and struggled to provide basic care for her kids.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She took odd jobs doing hair or teaching piano, but clients hated coming to her chaotic house, so she had trouble holding on to work too. When she lost a client, Talmadge refused her the same benefit of the doubt she gave him. Instead, he beat Wanda and the children or whipped them with leather belts. And while, at least initially, Wanda didn't hit her kids, she did let the abuse happen.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
And when her children came to her for comfort, she distracted herself to avoid vulnerability. She met her kids' tears with apathy. If they accused Wanda of not being there for them, she responded by grabbing a knife and threatening to kill herself. She'd ask what they would do if she were gone, really gone, forever. Wanda's early threats were just precursors to future abuses.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Her kids would soon be forced to survive much, much worse. In 1964, 19-year-old Wanda Barzee married childish ne'er-do-well Talmadge Thompson. But once the honeymoon glow expired, Talmadge beat Wanda and her kids without remorse. But Wanda never once made an attempt to halt the battering or defend her children.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
In time, the years of abuse took their toll and Wanda became an abuser in her own right. When her oldest kids reached eight or nine years old, she threatened them regularly. She said that if they were dead, the family would be okay, maybe even better off. Sometimes she locked the pantry for days on end. Then she'd choose just the right moment to make a piping hot meal for herself.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She'd call the kids to the dining room and indulge in front of her starving children, moaning in delight. As her kids got older, Wanda escalated to physical abuse. She hit them or pulled their hair, but the psychological torments were the ones that left lasting marks.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
As one of Wanda's daughters put it when interviewed by Oprah Winfrey, "...the physical wounds could always heal, but the scars of emotional abuse remained." Perhaps even worse was Wanda's neglect. The Thompson kids had no knowledge of right and wrong. In school, they acted out. Her boys even vandalized the neighborhood church.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Wanda Barzee grew up in a full household. She was the middle child of three sisters. Janice, Wanda, and baby Evelyn were close. The girls stayed up most nights talking about their dreams of the future. Wanda's goal never changed. She wanted a man to love and protect her. It was all she cared about. While all three girls were well-liked, Wanda seemed, naturally, to garner extra attention.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But instead of meting out healthy discipline, she threatened suicide, hid from her children, or fell despondent. By 1983, 38-year-old Wanda wanted out of her life. It seems she came to the conclusion that since she hated her life so much, it was time to draft an exit plan and leave. Wanda's youngest daughter, Lu-Rei, was about to turn eight.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Around her birthday, her mother insisted she get baptized. Wanda stitched a new dress for Lu-Rei, styled her hair, and promised to let her ride in the front passenger seat to the ceremony. In the weeks leading up to the baptism, Wanda seemed almost happy. But when Luray's day finally arrived, Wanda was in a state. All the kids could feel it.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Their mom was teetering on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Still, despite not wanting to go to church at all, the Thompson kids piled into her car. On the family's arrival, Wanda dropped the kids off at the entrance. She told them she'd be in after she found a parking spot. She watched her six children walk into the building. Behind her a line of cars honked to encourage her to move on.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
When Luray finally stepped up to the altar to be baptized, she looked at the congregation, but Wanda was nowhere to be seen. Suddenly, she knew. Her mom was gone, and she had a hunch Wanda wouldn't be returning home anytime soon. Wanda drove to her mother's and begged to stay. Dora eventually caved. Every day she suggested Wanda contact her kids, but the days piled up.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Wanda never picked up the phone. After months of hiding out, she finally found the guts to face her children and husband. But it was too late. Wanda's family had given up on her. The kids pulled away, ultimately refusing to see her. They knew they couldn't rely on her to be a real mom. Talmadge ignored her too. In 1984, a year later, he filed for divorce. The children stayed with him.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Ashamed and angry, Wanda retreated deep into herself. Her dissociative behaviors flared up. Wanda knew she'd never repair the damage she'd done to her kids, so she stopped reaching out. She tried to make a fresh start instead. To that end, Wanda saw a doctor who prescribed psychotropic drugs, but she hated the idea of chemically altering her mind and simply refused to take them.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
To her, pills weren't the answer. God was. Devout as ever, she sought help through a group therapy program within the Mormon church. Even there, Wanda had trouble making friends. Still, she worked on picking up the pieces of her broken life. She secured a tiny apartment and volunteered as a church organist. She took typing courses and found a temp job, too.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Though she was starting from scratch at 40 years old, Wanda was optimistic. But her positive outlook may have been the result of something else, meeting a handsome new man at group therapy. Brian David Mitchell was a thin man with gray eyes. Eight years Wanda's junior, 32-year-old Mitchell was a recovering LSD and heroin addict. Despite this, Wanda and Mitchell had quite a bit in common.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
They were both the black sheep of their families and both trying to get over troubled marriages. Like Wanda, Mitchell was timid in his demeanor and found it difficult to make friends. They were both artistic. Mitchell designed jewelry and Wanda played the organ and could sew. And they shared a commitment to the Mormon church.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
But more than anything, Wanda and Mitchell connected because they were nursing shattered egos. Add that to their broken confidences and how much they feared being alone, and you had a match made in despair. Unlike her previous husband, Mitchell was a leader. Despite this, he was soft-spoken. He appeared steady, kind, too wonderful to be true.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
She was the quietest, the primmest, and the most proper of the three Barzee sisters. Plus, she was a devout Mormon, the most religious in her family. But from an early age, perhaps five or so, Wanda's sisters noticed in her a disquieting intensity. Her thoughts always raced to anxious worry, which made her a tough companion.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Kidnappers" - Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell
Perhaps if Wanda hadn't been so smitten, she'd have noticed his flaws. To others, Mitchell was a hopeless addict, sexually twisted and narcissistic. But she was blind to any red flag. The courtship was rocket-quick, and in 1985, Mitchell proposed. On November 29, 1985, the very same day Mitchell's divorce from his previous wife was made official, he and Wanda married.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Due to the nature of this case, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. In 16th century England, some people believed witchcraft was behind any bad fortune like plagues, poor harvests, or even death. It went so far that Parliament passed a law that made witchcraft a crime.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
So whenever people thanked her for her service, Mary acted as though she was genuinely devoted to the cause. Still, not everyone ignored Mary's cons. People definitely talked, and she faced her share of derision over the years. Eventually, it got to be too much for John. His wife had sullied their name with her schemes.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
When it was just the two of them, he might have put up with it, but they'd had two children recently, and he wouldn't have wanted them saddled with Mary's baggage.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
so perhaps seeking to leave behind mary's burned bridges john made an executive decision in 1796 he enlisted in the armed forces specifically he joined the supplementary militia which aimed to protect england from various threats mary had little choice but to follow john and stay in military quarters
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
While there, she might have dabbled in witchcraft and fortune-telling to make a little extra money, but it's also likely she kept herself busy raising their children. Caring for the kids would have consumed much of Mary's time while John was with the military, but before she knew it, John was ready to return to Leeds.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
In 1799, he left the militia and moved 31-year-old Mary and their two children back to the city. Maybe John thought that enough time had passed for his wife's reputation to recover. Maybe people had forgotten about Mary's schemes and cons. But it wasn't to be. As soon as she got back to her old haunts, Mary conjured up her old business. It started small.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
She prepared love spells, sold trinkets, and told fortunes for eager customers. She also advertised herself as a professional agent for screw-er-down charms. Mary explained the term like this. In a world where people lurked around every corner, wishing to do harm to others, Mary had access to someone who could screw them down with a magic spell.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
It was a sort of preemptive strike, and it preyed on her customers' paranoia and gullibility. If anyone ever did question her, Mary had an answer ready. She told skeptics that much of her power and the knowledge she had came from a mysterious woman known only as Mrs. Moore.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
According to Mary, Mrs. Moore was the seventh child of a seventh child who possessed the gift of second sight, or divine intuition. She was the one advising Mary from the shadows. She saw all. She knew all. She... didn't exist. Most ate up the lie, believing that Mary's source was as powerful as she claimed.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Eventually, young maids whispered to their mistresses and friends, spreading the word about Mary's services once again, now with an added element of mystery. In short, Mrs. Moore was Mary's masterstroke. She manipulated her clients, playing them for fools, watching as they danced to her tune. And as she pulled in more and more believers, it occurred to Mary just how powerful she was becoming.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
She could make people do anything she wanted. And who was there to stop her? No one. After returning to Leeds with her family in 1799, 31-year-old Mary Bateman began practicing witchcraft again, or so she claimed. Just like she had when she worked as a seamstress, Mary found that people were easy to dupe with the well-told lie.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
When fearful customers came to her for advice, she eagerly answered, citing the mysterious and fictitious Mrs. Moore as her source. and some fell helplessly under Mary's spell, with disastrous consequences. Around 1800, a woman by the name of Mrs. Greenwood came to Mary with grave marital concerns. She told Mary she'd been worried for her husband's safety since he'd left for a trip.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Playing on Mrs. Greenwood's fears, Mary announced that Mr. Greenwood had in fact been imprisoned during his travels. According to Mary, his only hope was Mrs. Moore. Only she could secure his release. And her help, well, it didn't come cheap.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
In order for Mrs. Moore to properly screw down the jail guards, Mary requested four pieces of leather, four pieces of blotting paper, four brass screws and four pieces of gold. It's likely that Mary only cared about the gold, but she had to convince Mrs. Greenwood there was a recipe that would save her spouse.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
But providing a specific recipe for success likely instilled in her victim a temporary sense of power over her fate as well. Dr. Ellen J. Langer termed this very phenomenon the illusion of control. Published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Langer's research explains how people are able to expect a higher likelihood of a positive outcome than logic would allow.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
In other words, during situations where the outcome is unknown, illusions of control grant people a greater sense that they have influence over what happens to them. Though Mrs. Greenwood couldn't personally control what happened to her husband, she could fulfill Mary's request, thinking it might help him. So with her instructions clear, Mrs. Greenwood leapt into action.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
But she wasn't fast enough, and Mary was eager for her payday. So she announced that Mrs. Greenwood would take her own life if she didn't save her husband. Now terrified for her own life as well as her husband's, Mrs. Greenwood secured most of the ingredients for Mary's spell, but she couldn't get her hands on the gold. That's when Mary encouraged her to simply steal it.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Luckily, this particular request triggered Mrs. Greenwood's better judgment. She realized Mary was tricking her and walked away. Maybe a little humiliated, but somewhat wiser too. Mary's next victims wouldn't be so lucky. Barzillai Stead was a nervous man. After failing in the business world, he worried that his creditors would soon come to his door, seeking money he didn't have.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
With nowhere else to turn, Barzillai brought his concerns to Mary. Of course, she had little interest in helping him find solutions to his problems. True to form, Mary exploited Barzillai's fears, charged him for mystical advice, and then convinced him to join the army. But like every great magician, Mary was a master of misdirection. As it happened, Barzillai wasn't her main priority.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
The real subject of her latest scheme was the desperate man's pregnant wife, who we'll call Roberta. Shortly after convincing Barzillai to enlist, Mary told Roberta that her husband was having an affair. She claimed to know that Barzillai had impregnated this woman and that he would soon run away with her. Roberta was mortified and heartbroken.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Naturally, Mary promised her that mystical intervention was the answer to her woes. To seal the deal, Mary called in the help of Mrs. Moore. Mary told Roberta that Mrs. Moore would screw down Barzilai's lover so she was no longer in the picture. But it could only happen if Roberta paid three crowns.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
According to author Sommer Strevens, this would have been over a week's wages for a skilled craftsman at the time. And, impatient as ever, Mary told Roberta that she only had until Barzillai left for the military to act. Otherwise, all hope would be lost. Though Roberta and her husband were already struggling financially, she decided it was best to invest in the help of Mary and Mrs. Moore.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
So she scraped together the cash. Then there was just one other ingredient the witch needed, two lumps of coal. According to Mary, they were to be placed on the doorstep of Barzillai's mistress. Mary told Roberta that when the other woman found the coal at her door, she'd bring them to her fire. That's when magic smoke would rise up and taint all of the woman's fresh clothes.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
With nothing to wear, she'd be unable to pack a bag to elope with Barzillai. And with that, Roberta's marriage would be saved. Obviously, it was all nonsense, a tale that Mary made up as she went along, but Roberta was totally convinced. So she supplied the coal and the money just in the nick of time. Satisfied with her payment, Mary told her client that the spell was complete.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
I'm going to tell you now, Mary Bateman's death is well remembered. But despite this, the details surrounding her birth are frustratingly vague. All we know is that she entered the world in December 1767 or January 1768. Let's imagine that the winds blew a bit more ominously that day, as the people of Assenby, England welcomed the wicked cries of a future witch.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
And the next morning, Barzillai Stead left for the military without taking on a new bride. Roberta was overcome with a sense of relief. In Roberta's mind, Mary had saved her from ruin, and her gratitude was a dangerous weapon, one she unwittingly handed to the so-called witch. And Mary? She fully intended to use it against the poor woman.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
We're not sure how, but Mary somehow convinced Roberta to pawn off various items from around her marital home and give her the profits. Apparently, the original payment of three crowns hadn't been enough. It's entirely possible that while grateful for the witch's help, Roberta was also scared of Mary's powers. And with her husband away, there was no one to notice or intervene.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
as she steadily sold off every last belonging until she was almost destitute. Weeks later, nearly penniless, Roberta felt hopeless. No matter how much she gave Mary, it seemed it was never enough. Seeing no way out, she attempted suicide. But she didn't die. Mary was relieved. She wasn't done exerting her wicked influence over the vulnerable woman.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Following her brush with death, Roberta managed to get financial assistance from a charity known as the Leeds Benevolent Society. Mary took part of the payment. Then she told Roberta that her father-in-law was out to murder her, but that Mrs. Moore could stop him. So the desperate woman pawned off her remaining possessions to pay for magical protection. Even then, Mary wasn't done.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
She convinced the fretful woman that her eight-year-old daughter would soon take her own life or be killed by a seducer. Unless she wore a special charm bracelet Mary just happened to be offering for sale. By this stage, Roberta was in too deep to see reason, too afraid to understand she was being conned. And when she was completely tapped out, Mary lost interest.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
That's when Roberta began to finally question Mary's powers. When she told neighbors everything that the witch had done for her, they didn't believe Mary was the real deal. They urged Roberta to run from the nefarious con artist, but she just couldn't do it. so they suggested she try a smaller act of defiance instead.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Each day, Roberta wore charms on her clothing that Mary insisted would keep her alive. Roberta's neighbors told her to remove them, just to see what would happen. The poor woman was terrified. For weeks she'd followed Mary's domineering instructions. Now, as she reached to take off the charms, her hands trembled.
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She removed one trinket from her pocket, another from her blouse, terrified she'd fall ill at any moment, until finally, with a final held breath, she took off the last bauble. A long silence followed as she waited. To her surprise, nothing happened, and suddenly it was as though she'd snapped out of a trance.
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Angry, Roberta threatened to have Mary arrested unless she returned all the household items and money that she'd given her in the preceding months. Mary reluctantly agreed. What choice did she have? But as you can probably guess, she didn't have the money to repay her latest victim. So, Mary moved to her next victim, a pregnant woman we'll call Elizabeth.
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The father of Elizabeth's child had run away. Knowing this, Mary figured she had a perfect victim. People who were uncertain about the future were always easiest to manipulate. So, keeping with tradition, Mary treated Elizabeth's fear with prescribed superstitions. For the price of several charms, Mary assured the young woman that she could bring back her absent lover.
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Of course, she could do no such thing. The charm failed. The man did not return. But Mary had no shame. She assured Elizabeth that for an additional payment, she could secure her the love of an affluent suitor. Shockingly, that spell failed too. Determined to squeeze more blood from this stone, author Summer Strevens writes that Mary offered the woman medicines that would induce an abortion.
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Daunted by the prospect of raising a kid on her own, the woman accepted Mary's concoction. It did the trick. She miscarried. However, it also made her gravely ill. Emaciated and weakened by the potion, Elizabeth died. She was possibly Mary's first murder victim, and no one thought twice about it. Perhaps most affected by the death was Mary. She couldn't extort money from a dead person.
Serial Killers
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In childhood, Mary was nothing if not mischievous. Born to farmers, she was the third of six children, which might have left her feeling overlooked as she tended to her wide array of daily chores to support her family. Perhaps it was a reaction to a lack of parental attention and frustration with her tiresome life that led Mary to wickedness at a young age.
Serial Killers
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So on she went in search of new prey, desperate to pay off Roberta's stead before she was exposed. She found her next targets when a vulnerable woman came to Mary begging for guidance. It was a familiar story. Mrs. Cooper was anxious about her husband's loyalty. Hearing Mary could predict the future, she sought mystical answers. But Mary's prophecies were anything but comforting.
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Mary told Mrs. Cooper that her husband would soon leave her. Worse than that, she claimed he would sell all of their home furnishings in secret, then leave her behind with no wealth to support herself. The only way Mrs. Cooper could remedy the situation was to keep her belongings with Mary until Mr. Cooper changed his mind.
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Mary would know when it was safe, of course, and promptly return the furniture to her customer. Unwilling to risk losing her marriage and her money, Mrs. Cooper did as Mary advised. She moved her furnishings to Mary's place, in reality, the most dangerous spot she could have left them. And as soon as Mrs. Cooper left, the witch started selling the lot.
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With the cash she made, Mary quietly paid off her debt to Roberta Stead. Now in the perverse game of musical chairs, it was the Coopers left standing. But as far as Mary saw it, they were lucky. They had gotten away with their lives. Elizabeth hadn't had that privilege. Not that Mary cared. Death was nothing when there was money to be made.
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And though the death of the expectant mother had been an accident, Mary's next kill would be anything but a fluke. Thanks for tuning in to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We'll be back Monday with another episode.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
For more information on Mary Bateman, amongst the many sources we used, we found the book The Yorkshire Witch, The Life and Trial of Mary Bateman by Summer Strevens, extremely helpful to our research. Stay safe out there.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
This episode was written by Lauren DeLille, edited by Joel Callen, fact-checked by Bennett Logan, researched by Mickey Taylor and Chelsea Wood, sound designed by Alex Button, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Bruce Katowicz. Our head of programming is Julian Boirot.
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Our head of production is Nick Johnson, and Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Like another certain well-known witch, Mary couldn't resist a beautiful pair of shoes. In 1773, when she was just five, she laid eyes on a particularly stunning leather pair. She promptly stole them, then stashed them in her father's barn. Her efforts to hide her loot suggest that Mary understood what she did was wrong, so we know she had a moral compass.
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It's just that she didn't ever seem interested in following it. Months later, young Mary retrieved the loafers from her secret storage spot and brought them to her parents. She acted like she just happened to find them and pick them up. Of course, that was a total lie. Even at this young age, Mary was already displaying some worrisome tendencies.
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For three days every July, Mary's parish was transformed by the Topley Fair. Visitors and locals alike loitered down cobbled streets between the troves of trinket stalls, food vendors, and street performers. Usually buttoned-up people tossed aside their regular ethics to make the most of the frivolity. Men fought in public brawls and boisterously courted maidens.
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Meanwhile, the streets teemed with merchants eager to make a quick buck. Among them were a few who fascinated Mary. Every year, these visitors traveled to the annual event to help others spend their money. Mary watched, enchanted, as they sold potions and told fortunes.
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These were tricks of a trade Mary didn't yet fully comprehend, but she did understand that their exaggerated stories were lucrative. So Mary started telling myths of her own. We don't know exactly what kinds of stories she told the locals in her small town, but by the time she was 12, she'd earned a reputation as one of Assenby's most notorious liars.
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Between 1560 and 1700, 513 people, usually poor women, were put on trial for witchcraft, 112 of which were put to death. The laws were repealed in 1736, but sorcery was still in the public consciousness nearly 60 years later when a woman named Mary Bateman became known as the Yorkshire Witch. The charms she crafted certainly convinced many of her magical power. But was Mary a sorceress?
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Eventually, her lying got so bad that her parents didn't know what to do with her. At their wit's end, they sent Mary off to the bustling town of Thirsk to work for a family as a maid in 1780. But Mary, who was around 12 years old, had no intention of changing her ways. In fact, her new job did little to incentivize any improvement in her behavior at all. She woke every day before sunrise.
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She washed floors, lit fires in all the rooms, emptied chamber pots, fetched hot water, and prepared the kitchen for breakfast, all before her employer woke up. She had to complete her chores without question, and if she didn't do them properly, Mary faced the risk of a beating. Other girls of Mary's station accepted these terms in exchange for room and board.
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For them, such difficult circumstances were simply a fact of life. But Mary wasn't so resigned to such an existence. She tended to her responsibilities well enough, but when no one was around, she likely stole things. And if her mistress ever questioned her about it, she lied to weasel her way out of punishment.
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It was a repeat play out of the shoe incident from years earlier, only the stakes were far higher. After several years, it's possible that her thieving ways became so bad that the family fired Mary. So she went to another family, then another after that. Each time she was supposedly dismissed for the same reasons. She was a liar and a thief.
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In 1787, 19-year-old Mary found one final job as a maid. But perhaps when she was caught stealing from her mistress, she was fired again. And this time, she was forced to leave without packing, which meant she had no money and no clothes. The dead end marked a turning point for Mary. While she didn't enjoy working as a maid, it had at least been a living.
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Now, without recommendations from past employers, she needed to find a new job, something in a field where she hadn't blackened her name. So in 1788, 20-year-old Mary moved yet again, this time to Leeds, a town about 40 miles southwest of Thirsk. Similar to the Topley Fair she'd loved in her childhood, there was a sense of boisterous freedom to Leeds' growing metropolis.
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What's more, a reputation would take far longer to tarnish in such a big town. That idea might have occurred to Mary as she desperately searched for a job. Luckily, she found one when one of her mother's friends referred her to a seamstress who specialized in making mantuas, a kind of fashionable overgown.
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Mary likely learned how to sew in early childhood, but now at 20, she finally had the opportunity to put that skill to use. Recognizing it was her way out of a life of servantry, Mary treated the new gig with more respect and diligence than she showed in her old jobs. At least, it certainly seems that way, because as far as we can tell, Mary was never caught stealing from this boss.
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Though that might be because she decided her deceptive smarts were better applied elsewhere. Not long after she started her new job, Mary took up a side hustle, telling fortunes for servant girls who came into the shop. Twenty-year-old Mary copied the fortune-tellers she'd watched during childhood, spinning eccentric stories to convince gullible maids that she had special abilities.
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In turn, the young women gushed about Mary to their wealthy mistresses, who came to witness the magic for themselves. Doing this, Mary learned how to best exploit the fears and biases of others in her favor. She liked to tell some of her clients that someone in town had placed an evil wish upon them. Then she promised that she could remove the curse for a price.
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Eager to rid themselves of any dark magic, Mary's clients usually paid up. For other seekers, Mary relied on old wives' tales to peddle magical advice. For example, she might tell a woman who wanted to get pregnant that she should rock an empty cradle to make her wish come true.
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These kinds of superstitions had floated about England for centuries, and now they provided a reliable way for Mary to convince others of her mystical powers. So in this way, Mary spent her first few years in Leeds perfecting her cons. The result was that by late 1792, the 24-year-old enjoyed a good reputation as a witch.
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However, the nature of her cons shifted slightly when she met John Bateman, a well-mannered wheelwright, in early 1793. Though Mary's witchcraft side hustle was certainly controversial, John didn't seem to mind. Either that, or he didn't know about it. So the two hit it off rather quickly. After only three weeks of courtship, the couple married in February of 1793.
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They promptly moved into a furnished room at High Court Lane and were happy for a spell. But before long, Mary's darker side emerged. According to Summer Strevens, author of The Yorkshire Witch, The Life and Trial of Mary Bateman, within two months of the wedding, Mary broke into a man's private box at their building and stole his watch, some silver spoons, and two guineas.
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It didn't take long for the man to confront Mary and threaten to bring the matter to authorities. In the 1700s, theft of more than 40 shillings in value from a dwelling house was a capital offense, and Mary risked hanging if found guilty, so she had little choice but to return the pilfered items. It wasn't ideal.
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Or just a scammer? I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. If you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. This week, we're examining the story of Mary Bateman.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Mary knew that if she wanted to continue enriching herself with other people's money, she'd have to be more clever about it in the future. So with that in mind, she turned her sights to linen stores. She'd visit the merchants, claiming that her employer had instructed her to select three silk petticoats. Of course, her employer didn't exist. Mary gave the shop owners a made-up name.
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The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
With the valuable garments in hand, Mary assured the merchants that her mistress would look them over, then return two and pay for the other one. After leaving the shop, Mary's plot was half done. She'd return days later with two of the pieces, as promised, then direct that the third be charged to the account of the made-up mistress.
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It took quite some time for the cashiers to realize they'd been tricked. That only happened once they asked around and learned that Mary's mistress wasn't real. By then, Mary was long gone, able to wear or sell her expensive new petticoat. It was her most elaborate swindle to date, and it was so successful that she started thinking about new schemes she could carry out.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Mary Bateman was just getting started. By 1793, 25-year-old Mary Bateman had spent four years in Leeds, establishing a reputation for herself as a soothsayer. But she returned her focus to petty theft and cons when she married John Bateman that same year. Perhaps his financial support meant she no longer had to maintain her seamstress job. So, left to her own devices, Mary reverted to old habits.
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Her husband further enabled Mary's thievery by moving across town with her every time she fell out of favor with their neighbors. But around 1795, 27-year-old Mary faced a new kind of dilemma. That year, one of her victims threatened to expose her as a thief, so she cut a deal with him. If he stayed quiet, she'd make it worth his while. There was just one problem.
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She didn't have any money to pay him off. Desperate to save herself, Mary decided she'd sell the furniture in the lodging room that her and John rented. Mary knew John wouldn't be on board with her plot, so she devised a plan to get him out of the way for the time being. She forged a note claiming that John's father was on his deathbed. Then she found John at work and handed him the letter.
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Distraught, John rushed to his father's side in a neighboring town, a full 40-mile trek. When he arrived, John was relieved to see his father up and about. But relief turned to confusion when his bewildered dad revealed that he'd never been sick in the first place. Mary's letter had been a cruel trick.
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When John returned to Leeds, he was shocked to find that all of the furniture from their room was gone. Mary had sold it all. Like in childhood, Mary's willingness to wrong others, as long as it benefited her, suggests that she still paid no attention to her moral compass. Now older, however, Mary's actions were harder to excuse.
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Still, when John asked her about the furniture, Mary explained that she'd owed money to someone and she had no choice. Selling their belongings was just the quickest way to pay off the debt, she said. The incident with his father likely put a strain on their marriage, but John apparently remained true to his wedding vows.
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He stayed with Mary despite her faults, perhaps believing that she'd see the error of her ways and do better. He had no idea that Mary's long list of deceitful acts was only going to grow, and all it took was a small spark. On February 13th, 1796, a fire started at a flax mill in an industrial district on the edge of Leeds. Firefighting teams showed up, but there wasn't much they could do.
Serial Killers
The Yorkshire Killer Witch Pt. 1
Known as the Yorkshire Witch, Mary started out innocently enough, telling fortunes to wealthy women in her village. But soon, Mary learned how she could use her supposed powers to lie, steal, and even kill. Stay with us.
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10 people died in the blaze, and still more were injured and had to be rushed to nearby hospitals. After the tragedy, locals hurried to support those affected. They saw an opportunity to help their neighbors, but 28-year-old Mary saw an opportunity to make a profit. Pretending to be a charitable volunteer, Mary went to the doors of aristocrats, asking them to donate bedsheets to lay the dead upon.
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She also pretended to be a nurse and asked for fine linens, claiming they'd be supplied to the wounded who were stuck in the infirmary. Once she had the linens, Mary took the fabrics to a local pawn shop, where she sold them for a tidy sum. No one ever noticed what she did. They only remembered her selfless efforts to collect the sheets.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Due to the graphic nature of these crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder, suicide, assault and kidnapping. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and welcome to Criminal Couples.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Clothes, jewels, cars, whatever she wanted was hers. Of course, some sacrifices had to be made. For instance, Catherine left Pauline on the Paradise Farm with Ora and Boss. This was probably for the best, because her romance with Charlie was, let's say, passionate. Both of them were extremely jealous and hot-tempered.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In fact, Catherine threatened to kill her husband so many times, it became something of a running joke. Among the tumult, the pair kept up the bootlegging. Catherine managed the deliveries, while Charlie stayed behind, tending to other parts of the business. Or so he said.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After about two years of marriage, when Catherine was on one of her runs, she caught wind that Charlie was cheating on her back home. When she heard the news, she flew into a jealous rage, feeling the bitter sting of betrayal. A 2017 study published in Frontiers in Ecology and Evolution found a strong connection between feelings of jealousy and the part of the brain associated with social pain.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
According to neuroscientists, this pain affects the brain in the same way as a physical hurt. Needless to say, Catherine was hurt by her husband's infidelity. For most of her life, she'd been an object of desire, and if being desired was the ultimate form of validation, then infidelity was the ultimate insult.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Her brain likely processed her husband's betrayal as both a literal and metaphorical slap in the face. and she was determined to make him feel the same. She took off like a bat out of hell, screaming that she was on her way home to kill that goddamned Charlie Thorne. And this time, she meant it. The fight that broke out when she got home was worse than all of their others.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Eventually, Catherine picked up the phone and called the police. But when they arrived, the cops found Charlie with a bullet in his head. After they searched the home, they found a note left in a typewriter. It read, "'I love my wife. I can't live without her, so I'm ending it all.'" The thing was, Charlie was illiterate.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
You see, the Brooks were small-time farmers, and in the early 1900s, that meant endless hours of backbreaking work. While people in the big cities could afford the latest fashions and dine at fancy restaurants, the Brooks family was barely scraping by. Over time, Cleo became acutely aware of her socioeconomic status and decided she wanted more.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Everyone knew that, but it seems no one was interested in working too hard on this case. After all, who was going to miss a criminal like Charlie Thorne? At first, the coroner determined Catherine had probably shot him in self-defense, but a judge ultimately ruled his death a suicide, and from a legal standpoint, that was that. But to everyone else, Charlie's death was suspicious at best.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
For starters, Catherine had so much to gain from his death. In addition to the house, Charlie left her somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000, which would be around $200,000 today. He also had a $1,000 life insurance policy that was meant to go to his parents, but as they'd already passed, Catherine pocketed that too.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Newly single and flush with cash, Catherine returned to her nightlife ways with a vengeance. She became a regular at every jazz club and speakeasy in Fort Worth, and she spent her money with reckless abandon. Fortunately for Catherine, she knew how to keep her pockets lined.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
At some point, she returned to her old schemes, luring unsuspecting businessmen out to abandoned roads to be ambushed by thieves. And that wasn't all she was up to. As much as she loved shopping, she didn't always like to pay. Even though she could afford whatever her heart desired, sometimes it was just more fun to go for a five-finger discount.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Catherine was flying high, feeling untouchable, but what goes up always comes back down. At some point, while using the pseudonym Dolores Whitney, she was arrested for and convicted of shoplifting. But as ever, Catherine's luck prevailed. She was released on a technicality of some kind and was never required to give back what she stole. It was yet another close call.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But it didn't scare her straight. Not even a visit to an actual prison could do that. In fact, jail, it seemed, was a great place to meet men. Around 1927, 23-year-old Catherine paid a visit to her uncles, who were doing time in Leavenworth Penitentiary in Kansas. There, she made the acquaintance of one of their fellow inmates, the very handsome 32-year-old George Kelly.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Though they met only briefly, Catherine made quite the impression. George asked Catherine's uncles for her address, and the two started exchanging letters. Initially, their flirtation was based on mutual attraction, but after a while, Catherine realized she and George had much more in common than their looks.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Unlike most of the other gangsters she knew, George seemed like he might be on her level. The son of a middle-class Catholic family, he'd graduated high school and even attended a little college. But just like Catherine, he didn't see the appeal of staying on the straight and narrow. He dropped out before he graduated and had been wheeling and dealing in the criminal world ever since.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
It was a match made in heaven. But Catherine wasn't the type to wait around for a man. So while penning love letters to George, Catherine started seeing a bootlegger known as Little Steve. He was a big deal in Tulsa and Oklahoma City, which allowed Catherine to return to her old turf. Before long, the couple were running a profitable business together.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
That is until Catherine got a letter that changed everything. In February of 1930, after three long years of nothing but writing, George announced that he was getting out. While she'd found a good partner in Steve, the thought of seeing George made Catherine giddy as a schoolgirl. Of course, she hid those feelings from Steve when she told him that she had a friend who was looking for a job.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Desperate for a different future, she dreamed of being one of those city women, beautifully dressed and glittering with jewelry. But more than anything else, she wanted to be somebody other than Cleo. At some point, while still a schoolgirl, she decided to change her name.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Katherine stressed that before he landed in jail, George had been running a profitable, multi-state bootlegging operation, so it only made sense for him to join their venture. At some point, Steve agreed, and George made his way to Oklahoma. When Catherine and George finally met in person, the embers that had burned for years grew into full-on flames.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Steve may have been suspicious of Catherine's intentions, but hiring George was ultimately good for his bottom line. With his charming good looks and clean-cut style, George fit in with respectable society in a way most gangsters didn't. Known as the society bootlegger, he sold liquor from a briefcase, taking the goods directly to wealthy clientele.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This influx of well-to-do customers improved Steve and Catherine's operation. But even though George was great for business, Steve probably should have kept a closer eye on him and Catherine. Because in September of 1930, while Steve was out of town, 35-year-old George took 26-year-old Catherine out to dinner. Before their drinks even arrived, he spontaneously proposed.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She accepted without a second's hesitation. They rushed back to Little Steve's place and stuffed all of Catherine's things into Steve's Cadillac, which they took to Minnesota. By this stage, there were more than a couple of warrants out for George's arrest, and probably Catherine's too, so they needed to keep government paperwork to a minimum.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Fortunately, George had connections up north who could arrange a hasty wedding. Afterwards, the newlyweds returned to Texas and spent their honeymoon doing their two favorite things, partying and shopping. Between the two of them, the Kellys could spend a fair amount of money. Their wardrobes alone were worth thousands, and that was just one of their expenses.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
So once the fun was had, they needed to get back to business. Unfortunately, by the 1930s, the power of the temperance movement was waning. The end of Prohibition was in sight, and bootlegging wasn't as lucrative as it had been. But George had a plan. He'd made a few friends in prison who dabbled in a much more profitable business than liquor.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
They robbed banks, and the Kellys wanted in on the action. In 1930, 26-year-old Catherine Kelly finally married her perfect match, 35-year-old gangster George Kelly. Together, they embodied the ideal image of the Prohibition-era underworld. They were a gorgeous couple, living it up with the finest fashion, diamonds, and Cadillacs.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Before we continue with the psychology for this episode, please keep in mind that I'm not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but we have done a lot of research for this show. According to psychologist Jean Twenge, a name is more than just a name. That's because it can become a symbol of the self.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But with bootlegging on the way out, they needed a new way to stay flush. So, after a quick trip to Minnesota for an even quicker marriage ceremony, George reached out to some folks he'd met during his time at Leavenworth Penitentiary. His friends put him in contact with Harvey Bailey, the most successful bank robber of the period.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Bailey took George under his wing, passing along all of his hard-earned criminal wisdom. The trick, he said, was to focus on mid-sized towns and little cities, places where there'd be enough money to make it worth stealing, but not so much that local police were likely to be on guard. Bailey taught George how to study the banks, how to track business activity like payroll deposits.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
With a few days of careful observation, George could nearly pinpoint the day the take would be at its highest. And soon, George could too. He absorbed all the lessons Bailey had to offer. Well, all except the most important one. Don't ever work with women. especially when it came to their lips. In short, he believed women were gossips.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
And okay, Catherine liked to chat and share secrets, but she was also a major asset. She was smart, she was cunning, and she was ruthless. Once George struck out on his own, he was more than happy to include her in his schemes. While George and another associate went inside a bank, she waited in the parking lot, manning the getaway car.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She was often disguised as a man and armed just in case of any emergencies. According to the FBI, she was an expert shot. We don't know how or when she learned, but between growing up in Texas and years of dating gangsters, she was bound to pick up a thing or two. For his part, George wasn't all that interested in firearms.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
He carried them for the power they conveyed, but he used them only sparingly. Unlike his wife, and unlike many other bank robbers of the day, George had never killed anyone, and he never intended to. But guns were part of the gangster ethos. Even now, the image of the 1930s gangster in a suit and fedora wielding a Thompson machine gun, or Tommy Gun for short, is iconic.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
That's thanks in no small part to Catherine. Though it's true gangsters already favored the machine gun for its sheer power, she was the one who put it in the hands of her husband, George Machine Gun Kelly. Purchased secondhand from a pawn shop in Fort Worth, Catherine gave George his first Tommy gun and urged him to practice it at her family's farm.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She then used her love of gossip to build up George's reputation as a fearsome gangster with deadly aim. Catherine boasted about her man every chance she got. She talked him up at all the speakeasies, telling tales of his expert marksmanship. According to Catherine, her husband could shoot walnuts off fence posts at 30 feet.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
As such, when people dislike their name, they tend to not be well adjusted psychologically and have lower self-esteem. This can lead to a host of negative outcomes, such as anxiety and depression. To combat these feelings, many change their names to one that matches their inner identity. To Cleo, her name probably sounded like the name of a girl destined to spend her whole life on a farm.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
One of her favorite stories was that George was such a good shot, he could write his name with his gun, which he called the little stenog, short for stenographer. This detail quickly worked its way into the growing legend of machine gun Kelly. And that legend spread quickly. Soon there were rumors around the entire country about a bank robber who signed all his heists in bullets.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
And these alarming tall tales piqued the interest of the relatively new Federal Bureau of Investigations. At the time, the FBI's reputation was badly sullied from years of corruption. When J. Edgar Hoover was made director in the early 1930s, he did his best to weed out the bad apples, but the stain was hard to remove. Despite the U.S.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
government's less than stellar reputation for law enforcement, some officials promised to clean house. During his presidential campaign, Franklin D. Roosevelt swore he'd declare war on the forces tearing the country apart. Once he took office, he was ready to make good. FDR wasn't just talking about the economic powers causing the Great Depression.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
He also meant to take on widespread corruption and the lawless gangland in the country's West, which meant Hoover needed to prepare his FBI agents for battle. However, public opinion just wasn't on their side. A series of poorly handled cases meant no one had confidence in the Bureau's abilities to solve cases. The most highly publicized of these bungles was the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In 1932, aviator Charles Lindbergh's 20-month-old son was taken from his home and held for ransom. Though the president himself put the FBI on the case, New Jersey law enforcement refused their help. It made Hoover and his men seem like laughable, ineffectual buffoons. And it happened at exactly the wrong time, because crime was on the rise in the U.S., and no one knew what was coming next.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
As the Depression wore on, robbing banks became less of a sure thing. By the early 30s, even they were running low on cash. At the same time, support for Prohibition was dropping dramatically, and a repeal seemed imminent. That meant both of the Kellys' major income streams were on the verge of drying up. But they noticed the kidnapping racket was booming. It was the new, easy way to make money.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Snatch someone important, demand a ransom, and collect your cash. The more Catherine thought about it, the better of an idea it seemed like. Bank robbing was dangerous because there were so many variables. With kidnapping, she'd have more control. They could even name their price. It sounded like the perfect move. Though to be fair, it's possible Catherine was just eager to try something new.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
A 2013 study titled The Phenomenology of Specialization of Criminal Suspects found that age can play a critical role in a criminal's pattern of specialization. According to researchers, younger criminals tend to be generalists, while the older generation is made up of specialists. Specialists explore only one specific group of types of crime.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Generalists, on the other hand, partake in more than one type of group. At 28, Catherine was still pretty young in her criminal career. As such, it makes sense that she was open to new schemes. She had no problem escalating her crimes or jumping around while looking for a specialization. George, however, was in his late 30s.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Perhaps it was hard for her to imagine a cosmopolitan existence with a name she thought better suited to a country bumpkin. So Cleo gave herself the most sophisticated one she could think of. Catherine. As Katharine Hepburn proved in the 1920s, it was a name that sung with star quality. It was elegant, grand, timeless.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
He'd been bank robbing for long enough that jobs tended to run like clockwork. Switching this late in the game might have felt like courting disaster. especially since he'd helped out on a kidnapping a couple of years earlier. The job had gone wrong, and his partner at the time killed one of the victims. It had left a bad taste in George's mouth.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Despite that, in January of 1932, George attempted his second kidnapping, likely at Catherine's insistence. He and an old bootlegging pal nabbed a banker on his way home from work. They left a note for his wife demanding $50,000 for her husband's safe return. Then, George held the man for two days, but the money never came.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Eventually, the victim convinced him there was no way his wife could come up with the cash. So, feeling like he had no other option, George let the man go in exchange for a promise that he'd raise the money himself. Obviously, that didn't happen. George wrote the man plenty of threatening letters, but they were all ignored. However, he didn't report George to the cops, so that was a plus.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But ultimately, the whole thing was a waste of time. Catherine couldn't possibly have been pleased with the bungle, so she decided to take the reins and started studying the society pages of various newspapers. They read like a who's who of targets that would actually pay.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The articles held everything she needed to know, from names and relations to a general idea of potential Mark's routines and schedules. Armed with an actual plan this time, Katherine set her sights on the son of a Fort Worth oilman. She got to work setting all her ducks in a row. which included reaching out to a crooked detective she'd been cultivating a professional relationship with.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
At least, that's what she thought was happening. In reality, Detective Ed Weatherford had been monitoring the Kellys for years. He had hopes of turning Katherine into a valuable informant. Thinking they were on the same side, Catherine told Weatherford about her plan to kidnap the oilman's son. He gave his word that she could count on his help if things went sideways. And then he called the FBI.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Thanks to the tip, the Dallas Bureau assigned a security detail to the intended target and his family, and the extra men were impossible to miss. The heat was so intense that Catherine called the whole thing off. As frustrating as these early attempts were, Catherine pushed on. She'd become accustomed to her lavish lifestyle and had decided that this was the way to keep a hold of it.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Pouring over the list of potential victims she'd collected from the society pages, Catherine started whittling down her list to a few well-chosen marks. With the right moves, she was sure they could net however much they'd need to set themselves up for life. The goal was a cool million dollars. It was as audacious a plan as anyone had ever dreamed.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But if anyone could pull off such a feat, it was surely Catherine Kelly. In the second half of Catherine and George Kelly's story, we'll see the infamous duo set out to commit the crime of the century. But when the going gets tough, well, even the toughest lovebirds get going in different directions. By 1933, 28-year-old Catherine Kelly had everything she'd ever dreamed of.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After all, it was a name shared by two wives of Henry VIII and a handful of saints. But to truly make herself stand out, she opted for the ultra-modern variant, spelling her name with a Y instead of I-N-E. The staccato of the two syllables, Cath-rin, gave the classic moniker a modern edge, like a pop of bullets fired from a gun.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
A closet full of clothes, jewels to rival any queen's, and the latest luxury car parked in her driveway. But no matter how much she had, there was always a part of her that wanted more. To call her materialistic would be putting it nicely. No, Catherine was greedy.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Before we get into Catherine's psychology, please note I'm not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but we have done a lot of research for this show. In a 2014 study, researchers Hudela Krekels and Mario Pondelaire defined greed as an "...insatiable desire for more resources, monetary or other."
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
They say that there's a great woman behind every great man, and while that holds true in a lot of stories, it might be more accurate to say that those women were standing right beside their great and powerful men. That's certainly the case with Catherine Kelly, who chose a husband who could help her get everything she ever wanted.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Kreckles and Pondelaire further noted that greed may have evolved as an adaptive trait in resource-poor environments. By acquiring as many resources as possible, greedy people might feel more confident of their future resource access during times of uncertainty. As we discussed last time, Catherine came from humble beginnings.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Growing up on a farm, she likely lived with the feeling of never having enough. As such, it's possible she obsessively gathered more than she needed as a survival mechanism. Perhaps she wanted to decrease her anxiety about a future that was becoming less certain by the day.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
With Prohibition coming to an end, Catherine's lucrative bootlegging operations would soon dry up, and the longer the Great Depression lasted, the more fruitless robbing banks became. Simply put, most Americans had no money left to deposit. Fortunately for Catherine, a new criminal venture was emerging.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
By 1933, kidnapping was a nationwide scourge so common, the New York Times dedicated a regular feature to updates on high-profile cases. Insurance companies even started offering kidnap coverage. While the country's richest had avoided the worst of recent suffering, they now had a target on their backs.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
It got so bad that social elites began hiring private security for themselves and their families. Even so, enterprising criminals like Catherine were undeterred. If anything, she likely saw the heightened security as a challenge. You see, when the snatch racket first began, it was as simple as grabbing a target off the street and waiting for the cash.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Chances were that the authorities wouldn't even find out what had happened until the victim was safe at home. And by then, the abductors were already states away. That said, kidnapping definitely took both brains and skill, two things Catherine prided herself on having plenty of. And with her 38-year-old husband, George Machine Gun Kelly, beside her, she had the muscle, too.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
They'd been married just three years. But in that time, George had gone from an unknown bootlegger to a near legendary bank robber. Of course, this was entirely thanks to Catherine. His nickname and accompanying mystique were her inventions. She proudly claimed that George was a sharpshooter so skilled he could write his own name with the Tommy gun.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Naturally, everyone in the criminal underworld wanted to bring him along on their jobs. But as much as a hard reputation helped the Kellys line their pockets, it had its drawbacks. By 1933, the FBI had heard about Machine Gun Kelly, and he'd found a place on their watch lists. But Catherine was oblivious to this development. She was too wrapped up, planning another daring spree.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
As if the universe were rewarding her boldness, when she was nine years old, Catherine's family moved farther into the Wild West to Coleman, Texas. Though it was still a small town, Coleman was much larger than Saltillo. For Catherine, it probably felt like the big city. But the excitement was short-lived. After the move, James and Ora divorced.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After a few failed kidnapping attempts, Catherine had developed something of a system. She studied the society papers for the names and whereabouts of America's richest tycoons and magnates, people with more money than they'd ever know what to do with. It was within those pages that she learned of the marriage of 43-year-old Charles Urschel to Bernice Slick.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Charles was an oilman from Oklahoma who had amassed a fortune of his own, and his new bride was also flush with cash. She was the widow of Tom Slick, another oil baron who'd left behind an astounding fortune. The Associated Press estimated that between them, Charles and Bernice were worth about $75 and $100 million back then. Adjusted for inflation, that would be in excess of $1.5 billion today.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The number had Catherine practically salivating, and the Urschels sprang to the top of her list of marks. But while she prepared for the big score, the rules of the game began shifting. That June, Congress passed the Federal Kidnapping Act. It gave 36-year-old FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and his team of agents unprecedented authority over kidnapping cases.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Not only that, they could chase offenders over state lines. Unfortunately, local police departments weren't keen on handing over the reins to the new organization. As a result, the first wave of FBI-led cases ended disastrously. To cut out the uncooperative middlemen, Hoover created the first crime hotline for tips and information.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
That meant anyone who needed help could dial in and instantly have the ear of the FBI. Hoover was so serious about cracking down on the snatch racket that he even had a line installed at his private residence so that he'd never miss a report. Needless to say, the odds of completing a successful kidnapping seemed to be diminishing by the day. And yet, the Kellys weren't phased.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
On the night of July 22nd, Catherine sent George to nab their prey. Al Bates, an old bank robbing buddy of theirs, went along as backup. Around 11.30 p.m., the men rolled up to the Urschel estate in a Chevy, likely expecting everyone to be in bed. Instead, they found the Urschels were wide awake, drinking and playing a game of cards with another couple.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The foursome were out on their screened-in back porch, with the doors flung wide to dispel the late summer heat. What's more, Charles had recently fired his bodyguard. There was literally nothing standing in the bandits' way. So, armed with his namesake, Machine Gun Kelly burst into the home, with Al close behind.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Bernice screamed until George pointed the Tommy gun in her direction and ordered her to shut up. Once she fell silent, he looked the two men over and asked which one of them was Charles Urschel. When neither answered, George grew annoyed and threatened they'd have to take them both. Still, neither man responded, so George and Al gathered up the men and pushed them towards the door.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But before they left, George gave the women a chilling warning. If they called the cops, their men were as sure as dead. Then, George and Al hustled their captives outside and towards their getaway car. While neither kidnapper had been masked, they made sure to blindfold Charles and his friend before shoving them into the cramped back seat.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Once the car was out of the driveway, Bernice sprang into action. Despite the warning, she was smart enough to know the kidnappers wouldn't kill Charles, not before they got any money, at least. Even still, she took the extra precaution and locked herself in a room with a telephone. Then she called Oklahoma City PD, who promised to send officers. But Bernice wasn't content to just sit and wait.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
And while it wasn't unheard of, the sudden dissolution of a marriage was still somewhat scandalous in the early 1900s. Even still, Ora held her head high and pushed forward. She found a job as a hotel manager, which came with a room where she and Catherine lived. To Catherine, hotel living must have been a dream come true.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Her mind reeled with what had just happened. She felt like she had to do something, anything. That's when she remembered reading about Hoover's national hotline. Around 2 a.m. in Washington, D.C., the special line at J. Edgar Hoover's home started ringing. Within hours of the abduction, the FBI was hot on the Kellys' trail.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But by then, George had already put hundreds of miles between them and Oklahoma City. Charles had also finally identified himself, likely hoping that his captors would release his friend. Everything was going according to plan. But as pleased as George was with their progress, his accomplice seemed jumpy. Sure, things had gone fine, but not entirely to plan.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
They had an extra hostage on their hands, and now the question was what to do with him. Al wanted to make sure the other man couldn't talk. He warned George that they shouldn't leave another witness behind, but George wouldn't hear of it. Despite the name and reputation that Catherine had built for him, Machine Gun Kelly wasn't as vicious as people believed.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
He certainly wouldn't just kill an innocent man. That's why he chose the middle of nowhere to drop their excess hostage on the side of the road and speed off. George, Al, and a blindfolded Charles spent the rest of the night and a good portion of the next day in the car.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
To throw potential pursuers off their trail and make sure their captive was disoriented, they took the least direct route possible. It was well over 12 hours after the kidnapping that they arrived at the Paradise Farmhouse in Texas, where Catherine was waiting for them. When the men climbed out, she directed George and Al to an empty bedroom to deposit Charles for the night.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But while Charles was kept in quiet solitude, the rest of the farm was bustling with activity. The property belonged to Catherine's stepfather and bootlegger, Robert Boss Shannon. It's unclear if he and Catherine's mother, Ora Shannon, were in on the plan from the start, but when they heard of the score, they got on board and agreed to keep an eye on the prisoner.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This allowed George to focus on things on the farm and Catherine to take her 13-year-old daughter, Pauline, to her home in Fort Worth. There, she contacted Detective Ed Weatherford, a crooked local cop she'd recently befriended. Or that's what she thought anyway.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In reality, Weatherford was working Catherine in the hopes that she'd turn state's witness against anyone and everyone in the criminal world. So when she called him for a quick chat, he came right on by. But Weatherford wasn't the only one with an ulterior motive. Catherine knew the detective had connections and hoped he'd warn her if anyone was after them.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She also wanted to establish her presence in Fort Worth as a sort of alibi. When Weatherford came over, she not so casually told him that she'd just got back from a trip to St. Louis. But because he hadn't heard about the Urschel kidnapping yet, there wasn't much else he could offer Catherine just then. So she made sure the conversation was a quick one.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She likely crossed paths with affluent visitors on the regular, people like doctors, lawyers, and wealthy world travelers. But the dull reality wasn't nearly as grand as her fantasies. Many of the guests made her keenly aware of how little she really had. While they all slept under the same roof, it was abundantly clear that she and her mother were simply the help.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The two said their goodbyes, and Weatherford headed back out. But as he passed Catherine's parked car, he noticed something peculiar. While Catherine had said she'd been in Missouri, she had a newspaper from Oklahoma laying on her front seat. Weatherford's detective senses were tingling. There was only one reason she'd lie about where she'd been. Catherine Kelly was up to something.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In July of 1933, 38-year-old George Kelly and his accomplice Al Bates kidnapped 43-year-old Charles Urschel from his home in Oklahoma City. It was just the start of a kidnapping spree that George's wife, 28-year-old Catherine, had planned as a grand finale of sorts to keep them set for life. But thanks to the FBI's newly established hotline, the feds were on the case in record time.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
And unlike previous investigations, the local police were more than happy to hand the reins to the feds. That's because the special agent in charge of the Oklahoma City Bureau was an old colleague of the police chief. The serendipitous connection meant countless agents and officers were working together on the case.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This made it nearly impossible for the Kellys to get their demands directly to the victim's wife, Bernice Urschel. Anything sent to the house would be intercepted by the FBI, something the Kellys adamantly didn't want to happen. So after nearly three days of brainstorming, Catherine finally came up with a feasible plan. They'd have Charles reach out to a third party.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
By now, the Kellys had moved the wealthy oil baron into a small shack that belonged to Boss Shannon's son, 22-year-old Arman. They'd also made sure to keep Charles blindfolded, and his ears were stuffed with cotton for good measure. But Charles' world wasn't entirely silent, just muffled. Through the fluff, he could even hear the changing of the guard.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
One day, George dismissed Armin so he could have a word with his captive. He removed the cotton from Charles' ears and told him that he was very disappointed in Bernice. He'd expressly forbidden her from going to the cops. Not only had she ignored that, but she'd gotten the feds involved too. Now, George explained, Charles needed to clean up her mess.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
They wanted a name, someone they could write to with their demands and instructions, who would then take them to Bernice without alerting the fuzz. Charles knew just the person. He was given a pen and paper and sat facing the blank wooden wall before his blindfold was removed. George warned that if he looked anywhere other than the page in front of him, it would be the last thing he ever saw.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
When the letter was finished, the blindfold was put back in place and Charles was left once again in the dark. The letter went to John G. Catlett, a friend of the Urschels from Tulsa. As soon as he read it, Catlett contacted Bernice and arranged to meet her at a hotel in Oklahoma City.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Bernice's brother-in-law, Arthur Seligson, and family friend, E. E. Kirkpatrick, went with her, as both of their names were also mentioned in the letter. Needless to say, seeing Charles' handwriting sent a wave of relief over Bernice. While it had only been a few days since he'd been taken, she'd already received several fake letters from opportunists attempting to take credit for the abduction.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
As she watched her mother struggle to provide for her family, Catherine made up her mind. There was no way she'd end up like Ora. She was determined to be the one calling the shots, staying in lavish hotels and being waited on. But Catherine didn't fancy working hard to reach her goals. Even though she believed she was destined for finer things, she knew school wasn't how she'd get there.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Now that they knew they were dealing with the real kidnappers, the authorities could finally make a move of their own. Of course, this first meant following the Kellys' instructions. A second letter came through demanding the largest ransom in U.S. history, a whopping $200,000, or the equivalent of $4 million today. Also included was a script for a fake classified ad.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
If their terms were accepted, the ad was to be placed in the Daily Oklahoman. When veteran FBI investigator Gus Jones took one look at the letters, he knew they were dealing with professionals. So Bernice did as she was told, getting the money and placing the ad that same day. Meanwhile, Catherine sent another letter from an address in Joplin, Missouri, to throw investigators off their scent.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This time, the directives were for Kirkpatrick. He was to take the bag of cash on the 10 p.m. train to Kansas City and choose a seat in the observation car. Once the kidnappers were sure there was no funny business, Kirkpatrick would see two signal fires at various points along the track. After the second fire, he was to throw the loot from the train.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
If anything went wrong, he'd receive further instructions at the Muehlbach Hotel in the city. Brushing aside his terror, Kirkpatrick agreed to the mission. As a precaution, he wrote a goodbye letter to his wife, asking Bernice to get it to her if he didn't come back. John Catlett decided to go with him for moral support.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
On July 29th, the men boarded the train according to the plan, but then everything started going awry. The observation car was usually the very last on the train, but thanks to the World's Fair happening in Chicago, two extra passenger cars were tacked on to accommodate more travelers.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Not sure how this might affect the kidnappers' plan, Kirkpatrick and Catlett paid an attendant to allow them to stand on the tiny platform off the back of the train. They spent the entire night there and never saw a single fire. When they got to the designated hotel, a message was already waiting for them. A telegram reading, "'Unavoidable incident kept me from seeing you last night.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
We'll communicate about six o'clock.'" As promised, Kirkpatrick and Catlett received a call to their room just before 6 p.m. A man identified himself as Moore and told Kirkpatrick to take a walk in the direction of the nearby LaSalle Hotel. He was to bring the package alone. Out on the street, George watched Kirkpatrick coming toward him.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The man was twitchy, practically jumping out of his skin at every bump and jostle. When they were finally shoulder to shoulder, George reached for the bag and murmured, "'I'll take that grip.'" In that moment, it seems Kirkpatrick felt a burst of confidence. He demanded some assurance he could pass along to Bernice. George told him that Charles would be home in around 12 hours.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Then he yanked the handle from Kirkpatrick's hand and disappeared into traffic. Meanwhile, Catherine was back in paradise, watching over Charles. George and Al had been gone two days, and she was starting to worry. To calm her nerves, she sat chain-smoking on the porch with her eyes trained on the driveway, until, finally, she saw the car in the distance and breathed a sigh of relief.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
When the car stopped in front of the farmhouse, George jumped out and sprinted towards Catherine, wrapping her in his enormous arms and spinning her around. They'd pulled it off. Al followed the happy couple to Catherine's room, where they dumped their prize out on the bed and stopped to admire the largest pile of cash any of them had ever seen. But the moment was short-lived.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
It was boring and stuffy, and no one expected a woman to be book smart anyway. So just after the seventh grade, when she would have been around 13, Catherine dropped out of school. Unfortunately, the teenage stunner had other options. Less than a year later, while visiting family in Oklahoma, Katherine met 16-year-old Lonnie Frye.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After dividing the ransom money, the only thing left to do was figure out who was taking care of Urschel. To George's horror, both Catherine and Al agreed there was no way they could let him go alive. The feds were waiting for him at his home, and he'd give them up in a heartbeat. Even still, George did his best to reason with his partners.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Aside from the night they grabbed him, Charles had barely gotten a look at them. They'd kept him blindfolded pretty much the entire time, and if Bernice or the other guy they'd nabbed hadn't been able to ID them yet, Charles didn't stand a much better chance. Fortunately for Charles, George was pretty convincing.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
He reminded Catherine that the Urschel kidnapping was only supposed to be the beginning. They still had plans to kidnap three more wealthy businessmen. If they killed Charles after they got the ransom money, they could kiss the other jobs goodbye. While George's rationale made complete sense, it seems Al couldn't care less. He was ready to take his money and run.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
So he did, hopping on the next train to Denver, Colorado. For all he cared, the Kellys could do whatever they wanted with their captive. Eventually, Catherine softened and agreed to let Charles go. They put a pair of sunglasses on the oilman to hide his blindfold, then loaded him into the back seat of their car.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The Kellys took the longest, most roundabout route possible from Paradise toward Oklahoma. When they were within 20 miles of the city, near a town called Norman, they let Charles out of the car and sped off. With Charles out of the picture, the Kellys were flying high. They drove north through the night until they reached St. Paul, Minnesota.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
There, George's contacts helped them launder their score. Meanwhile, the couple did a little shopping. George bought Catherine a new fur coat and an $1,100 diamond bracelet. Then in Cleveland, Ohio, he bought himself a brand new Cadillac. It was there that they got the first sign that things weren't quite right. They heard that the feds had nabbed a few of the men who'd just helped them in St.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Paul. Catherine knew they had to keep moving to keep the lawmen off their scent. They drove the new caddy to Chicago, then continued on to Des Moines, Iowa, where they rented a hotel room and were just settling in when another bombshell landed. The feds had arrested Catherine's mother, Ora, and her husband, Boss Sherman. How had it all gone wrong so quickly?
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
To answer that, we need to backtrack a little. While Catherine and George had bounced around the Midwest, Charles had made his way home. But after nine grueling days as a hostage, he was so haggard his own staff didn't recognize him. In fact, the guard at the door even tried to turn him away. Luckily, someone recognized Charles and called for Bernice to come quickly.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Within minutes, lead FBI investigator Gus Jones was at the house, and by the next morning, Charles had given the feds more information than either he or the Kellys ever could have imagined possible. You see, Catherine and George had made the mistake of kidnapping a man who had a memory like an elephant. Since his early career as an accountant, Charles had been meticulous with details.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In fact, it was almost a photographic memory. and it seems the trauma of being kidnapped only heightened these abilities. According to Jim Hopper, a Harvard teaching associate in psychology, being in a high-stress state puts the brain into super-encoding mode, so much so that the central details of the event get burned into a person's memory and they may never forget them.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The son of a preacher, he had a good head on his shoulders and the physique of a laborer. The two were instantly smitten, and flirtation quickly turned to talks of marriage. While still very much children themselves, Katherine and Lonnie tied the knot. Soon after that, they had a daughter named Pauline. This should have been the start of a new, exciting life.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Even blindfolded, Charles had made note of seemingly every detail of his ordeal, And he recounted all of it to Jones. Jones deduced the oil man had been taken to a farm in northern Texas. Charles also said that he'd heard planes passing overhead, so Jones looked into flight routes and schedules. He studied weather reports for the area, looking for the closest match to Charles' description.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But they didn't land on Paradise, thanks to Jones' analysis alone. Detective Ed Weatherford from Fort Worth had convinced the Dallas Bureau that the Kellys were almost certainly involved in the plot. So when Jones asked them for help, locals pointed him toward Boss' farm. With all the pieces falling into place, Jones organized a raid on the evening of August 11th.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Taking several agents and Charles with him, a caravan of cars pulled up to Paradise Farm. When Boss demanded they state their business, Charles immediately recognized his voice as one of his guards. Then, Jones sent agents to search the house. Inside, they found Ora, who'd ordered everyone to keep their mouths shut. But Boss's son, Armen, caved under questioning. He told them everything.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
With it all out in the open, Jones arrested Boss, Ora, and Armin. Now they just needed to figure out where the Kellys had gone. As luck would have it, the Dallas Bureau already had a few ideas where they could be. Before the arrest, they'd been watching Boss and Ora's mail for weeks and had already intercepted two letters from Catherine. From the address, they knew the Kellys had been in St. Paul.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The second letter's return address was General Delivery, Indianapolis. Jones assigned agents to watch the post office there, But the real break came when they followed up on a bill from the Cadillac agency in Cleveland. There, agents found out they were just three days behind the Kellys, the trail was hot, and the hunt was on.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
By the summer of 1933, the feds were closing in on 28-year-old Catherine Kelly and her 38-year-old husband, George. On August 11th, they arrested Catherine's mother, stepfather, and stepbrother for their involvement in the Charles Urschel kidnapping. That very same day, another accomplice named Al Bates was apprehended in Denver, Colorado.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
He'd been spotted by investigators from American Express, who'd been looking for him for over a year. The feds did their best to keep the arrests quiet, but three days later, they were in all the papers, including the one in Des Moines, Iowa, which was how Catherine learned about her mother's arrest. The news infuriated her, and she knew exactly who was to blame.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She'd had the entire thing mapped out perfectly, but George had failed her. She had told him they needed to kill Charles, but he didn't listen. And now her mother was in some terrible jail cell, locked away for God knows how long. They needed to help Ora. They needed to go back to Texas. So after a night of bickering, the couple climbed back into their car and headed south.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
During the long drive, Catherine came up with a way George could make it all up to her. In her mind, there was nothing but circumstantial evidence linking her to the crime. If they got caught, she wanted George to take the fall. It seems George truly loved his wife more than anything because he agreed to her demands. He was willing to do anything to make her happy.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Catherine had the love of a good man, the blessing of a beautiful child, and the freedom to run her own household. But she wanted more. Lonnie worked long hours for little money, which meant that Catherine was hardly the kept woman she'd longed to be. After two years of dismal reality, the bloom was off the rose, and the couple divorced.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Psychologists call actions intended to help others pro-social behaviors. This includes everything from doing simple favors for someone to taking the blame for another's crimes. Such behavior is strongly influenced by many factors, so there are a few theories to explain it. One is the close relationship theory, developed by psychologist Dr. Josephine Korchmaros.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This framework suggests that relationship factors, like emotional closeness and obligation, dramatically increase one's inclination to help another person. Generally, relationships don't get much closer than marriage, so it was probably a little bit of both that made George agree.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Whatever the case, it seems Catherine was placated, and the two eventually stopped at Catherine's uncle's house in Coleman, Texas. There, they buried the ransom money behind a barn. The next day, Catherine went to a nearby town and bought a beat-up old car. She left it and George with her uncle while she took the caddy to Dallas to hire a lawyer for Ora.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
When she returned a few days later, she was horrified to discover George was long gone. The FBI had rolled into town, intent on questioning her family in the area. When George heard the news, he split, leaving behind a one-word note that read, "'Mississippi.'" Catherine cursed her husband, calling him a damned fool.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She knew he had a friend in the city of Biloxi, so she drove day and night across two states, but there was no sign of him. By now, she blamed George entirely for their predicament, and it was starting to feel like every woman for herself. So later that month, she wrote a letter to the FBI agent overseeing Ora's trial in Oklahoma City.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In it, she promised to give up Machine Gun Kelly in exchange for her mother's release. If her pleas were ignored, she predicted, the entire Urschel family and friends would be exterminated soon. The letter was postmarked Chicago, but by the time it arrived, Catherine was already on her way back to Texas. She arrived in Waco in September, purchased a red wig, and checked into the Hilton Hotel.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
By that stage, she'd been on the run for a month, and she was exhausted. From her room, she tried to call the lawyer she'd hired for Ora, but before she could ask a single question, he told her not to call his office and hung up. It's possible he knew he was under surveillance. In a fit of frustration, Catherine got in her car and started driving to Fort Worth.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She needed to talk to the lawyer one way or another. On the way, she passed a family of hitchhikers. They were the Arnolds, Luther, Flossie Mae, and their 12-year-old daughter, Geraldine. The bank had foreclosed on the farm where they lived, and they'd been roaming Texas looking for work. Likely suspecting that the Arnolds were just as desperate as her, Katherine pulled over and picked them up.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After some time together, she told the family who she really was and confessed that she needed some help. For a very handsome fee, Luther agreed to be her go-between to help her make contact with the lawyer. With that issue seemingly solved, Catherine turned her attention back to finding her husband and decided to head back to Coleman.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Catherine took custody of Pauline, and the teenager started her new life as a single mother. Fortunately, she had her own mother to lean on. When the divorce was finalized, she and Pauline returned to Coleman and moved back into the tiny hotel room with Ora. But things were not as she'd left them.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
To Flossie Mae's despair, Catherine took little Geraldine with her, likely to help her blend in. At some point, Catherine and George finally reunited at her uncle's farm. But the weeks of separation didn't end in a tearful reunion. The first thing Catherine said to her husband was, "'I don't know if I should kiss you or kill you.'" But there was no time for either.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The feds were still canvassing the area, so the pair lit out, taking Geraldine with them. They ended up in Chicago, where Catherine read everything she could about her mother's trial. Meanwhile, George tried reaching out to his underworld contacts. But between the national media craze and the FBI closing in, the Kellys were persona non grata. Anyone caught helping them was going to pay big time.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Realizing that, George was too paranoid to stay in the Windy City, so they headed to Memphis, Tennessee. He had a few hideouts there, as well as an acquaintance named Langford Ramsey. They called him and arranged to meet up. That night, George told Langford that he was the infamous Machine Gun Kelly. At first, Langford didn't believe him.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Even still, he took George seriously enough to agree to a massive favor. The Kellys sent him and Geraldine back to Coleman to retrieve the ransom money they'd buried there. But when Langford pulled up to Catherine's uncle's farm, he was turned away. The FBI had been sniffing around for weeks, and the uncle was sure he was being watched. He told Langford he'd better split while he could.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Langford needed to let the Kellys know what had happened, so he located the nearest place to send a telegram. Meanwhile, Geraldine missed her parents and desperately wanted to go home. Feeling for the girl, Langford made the fateful decision to drop her off at the train station in Fort Worth.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Last Geraldine knew, her mother was instructed to wait for them in Oklahoma City, so that's where she planned to go. Before boarding the train, Geraldine fired off a quick telegram, letting her mother know she was coming. But Flossie Mae had already been picked up by the FBI, and they intercepted the message. So when Geraldine arrived at the station, officers were waiting for her.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Back with her mother, 12-year-old Geraldine told the cops exactly where to find George and Catherine. So in the wee hours of September 26th, three FBI agents and a handful of local police raided the Kellys' Memphis hideout. The notorious machine gun Kelly was arrested in his underwear, armed not with his iconic Tommy gun, but a simple .45.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Sure, they were in love, but it was the kind of romance where one person was always calling the shots. You've probably heard of George Machine Gun Kelly, but I'll bet you didn't know that his loving wife was the one who helped build the mythos around him.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Hearing voices, Catherine came out of the bedroom in green silk pajamas. Taking in the scene, she put her arms around George, saying, "'Honey, I guess it's all up for us. The G-men won't ever give us a break.'" Though she knew it was over, Catherine demanded she be allowed to get dressed.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After about 15 minutes, she emerged looking like a movie star in a slinky black dress, but she wanted it known that her best clothes were still in Texas. Needless to say, the media adored Catherine. She treated the perp walk to and from the courtroom like a red carpet, always made up and dressed to the nines. When she took the stand that October, she stuck to her story.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
By the time Catherine was back in Coleman, the Roaring Twenties was upon them, and the mood in America was changing drastically. The end of World War I filled people with a celebratory spirit, and an economic boom meant the party never stopped. Flapper girls in particular were the life of the party.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The kidnapping was entirely George's idea. She batted her lashes and claimed she had no idea about that crime, or any of his others for that matter. She simply thought her husband had made all of his money betting on horse races. But Catherine put too much faith in her charms. Though she was right that the evidence against her was slim, she was still found guilty.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
For his part, George Kelly tried to keep his word to his wife. He wanted to testify that it was all his fault, but his lawyers wouldn't let him. Not that it made much difference. In the end, the couple received the same punishment. His and hers life sentences. But their stories diverged after that. In 1954, the notorious Machine Gun Kelly died behind bars at the age of 54.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Meanwhile, Catherine appealed her sentence for years with little success. But in 1958, she and her mother were both granted a retrial. In the end, both women were released. Thanks to a technicality regarding a handwriting expert, Ora and Catherine left prison together and lived the rest of their lives quietly in Oklahoma.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Perhaps that's why history has turned most of Catherine's legacy over to her husband, George, the machine-gun-toting gangster. Despite this, J. Edgar Hoover remained convinced that Catherine was the true mastermind of the pair. She lingered in his mind for years after the case. In his memoir, published in 1936, Hoover called her "...man-crazy,"
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
clothes crazy, and a cunning, shrewd, criminal actress. Misogynistic overtones aside, his assessment wasn't that far from the truth. Catherine Kelly was the beauty and brains behind it all. And don't you forget it. and hosted by Vanessa Richardson.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This episode of Criminal Couples comes from Female Criminals, hosted by Vanessa Richardson, with sound design by Dick Schroeder and production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, Bruce Katowicz, and Joshua Kern.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
This episode of Female Criminals was written by Megan Hannum, with writing assistance by Jane Oh and Joel Callen, fact-checking by Haley Milliken, and research by Mickey Taylor.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
They wore their hair like they wore their skirts, short, and they hung around bars and gambling halls. They also drank, smoked, swore, and did other things as freely as men did. In short, flappers challenged the norms of traditional femininity. Enthralled by the exciting image of the free-spirited 1920s woman, the town of Coleman suddenly felt suffocatingly small.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Aching to make her mark, Catherine knew she had to leave. So after just a couple of years, she set out on her next adventure in Oklahoma City with her daughter in tow. It was here, in the hustle and bustle of the big city, Catherine likely cemented her hard partying ways. It's possible she partook in copious amounts of drinking, dancing, and non-stop debauchery.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But partying wasn't the only thing on her mind. She had to support her little family, so she opened a one-woman beauty salon in a room she rented. However, it was far from the easy living she was looking for. To find that, Catherine needed someone else to bring home the bacon. So, shortly after moving to the city, she gave marriage another shot.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
But the relationship lasted about as long as the first, and the result was the same. Divorce. At this point, the divorce rate had been steadily climbing in the U.S. Even still, two divorces for one woman was something to be frowned on. Catherine and her lifestyle lent credence to the growing fear that the moral fabric of America was unraveling.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Stoking this fear was the growing temperance movement, which sought to prohibit the production and consumption of alcohol. According to agitators, alcohol was the root cause of all social ills, divorce included. The movement's biggest victory was the 18th Amendment, which banned the manufacture, transportation, and sale of all liquor throughout the United States.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In this episode from Female Criminals, we're diving deep into Catherine's life, her romantic false starts, and the love that landed her in prison. Our story begins in the middle of nowhere, Mississippi. Dusty and isolated, Saltillo was so far east of the river, it rode the border of Alabama.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Of course, making something illegal isn't a guaranteed way to stop it. Instead, the making and selling of booze went underground, which made it more fun for those determined to break the rules. These renegades gathered in illicit jazz clubs and secret speakeasies.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Catherine, of course, frequented all the hotspots, and it was there that she started rubbing elbows with criminals, ranging from the petty thief to the professional crook. Around 1925, she met a gangster known as J.E. Barnett. He seemed to be making good, easy money, and that's exactly what Catherine longed for in a man. By this stage, 21-year-old Catherine was struggling.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
She was likely up at all hours of the night drinking and partying, and if she wasn't hungover the next day, she was exhausted, and her salon business suffered for it. Desperate to provide for her six-year-old daughter, she started dabbling in sex work, and it appears this opened her mind to other criminal activity.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Given her slow slide into criminal activity, Catherine was likely experiencing the phenomenon of ego depletion. In psychological terms, the ego is the part of the personality that makes decisions. According to psychologists Roy Baumeister and Kathleen Voss, a person with a healthy ego will keep social norms front of mind when deciding on a course of action.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
However, when a person lacks essential resources like time, money, or rest, the ego gets weaker until it ultimately depletes. By the mid-1920s, Catherine was exhausted, broke, and spending a lot of time with criminals. In other words, she was psychologically primed to begin her criminal career. Together, she and Barnett the gangster hatched a lucrative scheme.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Catherine would lure unsuspecting victims, usually wealthy businessmen, with her charms and good looks. She'd invite them to join her somewhere private, like the nearby lake, for a late-night swim. Once they arrived, Catherine would disappear and Barnett would rob the mark at gunpoint. The scam ran flawlessly until Catherine got greedy and chose a target too close to home.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
One of her neighbors was a woman named Bessie, and she made decent money as a stenographer. She also wore a diamond ring that Catherine fancied for herself. So, one night in June of 1925, Catherine invited Bessie to join her and Pauline for dinner and a drive. At some point when they were driving by the lake, Catherine pulled over, claiming to have tire trouble.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
While Catherine checked the tire and Pauline dozed in the back seat, two men leapt from the bushes and robbed Bessie. They took everything she had, including her diamond. The plan had been a complete success, or at least that's what it seemed like at first. But then Bessie realized that she recognized one of her assailants. She'd seen Barnett hanging around Katherine's room quite a lot.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
Then, when she reported the robbery to the police, she learned she wasn't the only one who'd told them a similar story. It turned out a previous Mark had filed a report almost identical to hers. It didn't take long for investigators to put things together, and Catherine and Barnett were arrested for the robberies.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
For the first time in her life, Catherine was about to face consequences for wanting more than she had. She was about to learn a steep lesson, but not the one the authorities were trying to teach. In June of 1925, 21-year-old Catherine Kelly was arrested for the first time. She and her partner in crime, J.E. Barnett, were charged with at least two counts of robbery.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The evidence against Catherine was particularly overwhelming. Not only was she linked to both crimes, she'd been identified by her own neighbor, so her conviction was swift. But for some reason, that decision was thrown out on appeal. After this close call with justice, Catherine decided it was time to get out of the city.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
So she and her six-year-old daughter Pauline packed up their bags and returned to Coleman, Texas. But that wasn't their last stop. By that stage, Catherine's mother Ora was engaged to a wealthy rancher named Robert Boss Shannon. He owned a farm in Paradise, a town over 100 miles north of Fort Worth. and he was doing a lot more than raising cattle and growing crops.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The small town was barely more than a collection of farms, with a population of only a couple hundred people. It was there, in 1904, that newlyweds James and Ora Brooks welcomed their first child, a daughter they named Cleo Lyra May. There aren't many specifics about Cleo's childhood, but it's safe to say her life was far from easy.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
In the era of Prohibition, bootlegging was the criminal enterprise. Miles away from nosy neighbors and the authorities, a farm was the ideal base of operations. Boss made a killing manufacturing illicit liquor on his isolated property and was eager to have both Ora and Catherine to join the family venture.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
After nearly going to prison for robbery, you might think Catherine would have hesitated joining another criminal operation. But at this point, she developed a craving for fast money. So rather than being scared straight, Catherine dove in deeper. She moved to paradise and became a rum runner for Boss. And she was perfect for the job.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
The beauty dazzled her way into all the important dives and clubs in Texas. Soon, she knew everyone who was anyone in the business. Who bought, who sold, who was small-time, and who was big news. One of those people was Charlie Thorne, a mid-tier bootlegger who worked the same turf as Catherine. It could have been the start of a gang war, but Catherine was a lover, not a fighter.
Serial Killers
Valentine's Special: "A Couple of Gangsters" - Kathryn and "Machine Gun" Kelly
So rather than make Charlie an enemy, she made him family. In 1926, 22-year-old Catherine followed her heart down the aisle for the third time. She'd steadily improved her prospects with each marriage, and Charlie was no exception. He was so well off, he bought Catherine a $30,000 house in Fort Worth. And thanks to his exceptional wealth, she could finally live out her fantasies.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
Today, we'll dive into both of these notorious true crime cases, making this week's theme kidnappings. It was around 9 p.m. on February 4, 1974. Nineteen-year-old college student Patty Hurst was at her apartment in Berkeley, California, with her fiancé, 26-year-old Stephen Weed. As they settled in for the night, there was an unexpected knock on the door. Stephen and Patty found it odd.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
It was getting late, and they weren't expecting anyone. Berkeley was a college town, though. It was entirely possible that it was just a friend dropping by. So Stephen went to answer the door, Patty following behind him. They didn't have a window or peephole to see who it was, so Stephen cracked the door. It was a woman neither of them knew.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
The stranger claimed she'd accidentally backed her car into theirs and asked if she could use their phone. Patty wasn't happy about that. She turned and headed back towards the living room, leaving Stephen to figure it out. A moment later, there was a loud noise as the woman and two men barged their way into the apartment. They were all carrying weapons.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
They beat Steven until he was barely conscious, then tied Patty up and carried her outside. After a brief struggle, they forced her into the trunk of her car and sped away. Patty had no idea what they wanted or where they were taking her, but she was pretty sure she knew why she'd been targeted. Her name.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart had a huge impact on the Salt Lake City community and the entire nation. It was the sort of thing that just didn't seem possible. The Smarts were a big, tight-knit religious family who lived in an affluent neighborhood. Elizabeth's parents, Ed and Lois, had six kids, two girls and four boys. The night of June 4th, 2002, Lois Smart was feeling a bit distracted.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
She burned some potatoes while cooking and opened a kitchen window to air it out. When the family went to sleep, she forgot to shut the window. That night, 14-year-old Elizabeth and her 9-year-old sister, Mary Catherine, read the book Ella Enchanted in the bed they shared together. After a while, they drifted off to sleep. When Elizabeth woke up, it was still dark.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
She was disoriented, but instantly knew what had woken her. There was a cold knife pressed against her throat. A male voice told Elizabeth to get out of bed and threatened to kill her and her family if she tried anything. Elizabeth could feel her sister sleeping next to her and was terrified of what the man would do to marry Catherine if Elizabeth screamed.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
So she let the intruder lead her out of her room, then through the front door and into the night. Follow Crime House True Crime Stories, a Crime House Studios original, now. New episodes drop every Monday. Again, that's Crime House True Crime Stories. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad-free access, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
There are some true crime stories out there that we can never forget. Whether it happened yesterday or a century ago, the details stay with us, creating a lasting impression that never fades. On Crime House The Show, those are the stories we're telling. Every Monday, we'll tackle multiple true crime cases from that week in crime history, tied together by a theme.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
Think of us as your true crime calendar, telling you stories that occurred that week in true crime history. The murder of Gabby Petito, the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, the Heaven's Gate mass suicide. These are just a few of the unbelievable events we'll be covering on Crime House The Show. Crime House The Show is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Monday.
Serialously with Annie Elise
245: Introducing: CRIME HOUSE TRUE CRIME STORIES
Follow wherever you get your podcasts. Check out this clip. During the week of February 3, 1974, 19-year-old Patty Hearst was taken from her home by a violent group of self-described revolutionaries. Almost three decades later, in 2003, another shocking abduction haunted the nation when the composite sketch of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart's abductor was released to the public.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
Every Monday and Thursday, join us as we explore the psyches of the world's most frightening offenders. Killer Minds is a Crime House original. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. And now we're excited to share a clip of Killer Minds with you. Check it out. From the moment he was born on November 12th, 1934, Charles Manson's life was driven by deception.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
His birth certificate listed Kathleen and William Manson as his parents. But for years, Charles had no idea that William wasn't his father. That honor most likely belonged to a con artist named Colonel Scott. Colonel was Scott's given first name, but if people assumed he was in the Army, he didn't bother correcting them.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
That's how he caught Kathleen Maddox's attention at a dance club in Ironton, Ohio. He was 23. She was just 15. Kathleen was charmed by the older man she assumed was a military officer. So when she discovered she was pregnant sometime in the spring of 1934, Kathleen had no reason to doubt the colonel when he said he was being called away on duty.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
He promised he'd be back as soon as he could, but she never heard from him again. After a few months, Kathleen finally realized she'd been duped, and now she needed to find someone to help raise her soon-to-be newborn baby. That's when William Manson, who worked for a dry cleaning business, entered the picture.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
It's not really clear how the two of them met, but by the time Charles was born on November 12th, 1934, Kathleen and William were married. However, it doesn't seem either of them was all that interested in parenting. William wasn't around much, and neither was Kathleen. Most days, she dropped Charles off with her mom so she could go out drinking with her brother.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
Follow Killer Minds, a Crime House Studios original, now. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Again, that's Killer Minds. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad-free access, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
You know the names, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, John List, Eileen Wuornos. You may even know their stories. But on this show, you're going to get a peek inside the minds of these notorious serial killers and murderers. What drives a person to kill? Is it uncontrollable rage, overwhelming fear, unbearable jealousy? Or is it something deeper, something in the darkest corners of our psyche?
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
Those are the questions we're asking on the new Crime House original, Killer Minds. I'm Vanessa Richardson. As the host of true crime podcasts like Crime House True Crime Stories, along with cults, female criminals, and serial killers, I've covered some of history's most notorious crimes. But what really fascinates me is the people behind them and trying to understand why they did it.