Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Unsolved Mysteries: Flint River Killer, Alcatraz Escape & Other Cold Cases
Fri, 31 Jan 2025
Matt and Sheryl talk about various cold cases. Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI from CBS46’s CSI Atlanta, Director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute (CCIRI), a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. Sheryl holds a master’s degree in Criminal Justice with an emphasis on Policing. Sheryl's podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/39AxkVOTQ9HjcNqykeJHX4 Follow me on all socials! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrime Do you want to be a guest? Send me an email here: [email protected] Do you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrime Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8 Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438 The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402 Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1 Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel! Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here: Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69
Chapter 1: What is the Alcatraz escape plan?
Exactly. You couldn't even...
come up with it like this sounds so insane yes it it's almost fake we're at lunch one day and he looks at me and he says hey do you mind if i give your kids some advice and i said of course not you know please so he looks at my daughter who's 10 and he says never
Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Cheryl McCollum. She goes by Mac. She's in law enforcement. She was on CSI Atlanta. She is involved in cold cases. And we're going to talk about some cold cases and just some and basically her background. So check out the check out the interview. Where were you born?
I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. Grew up in Fulton County my entire life. Even went to college in downtown Atlanta at Georgia State. Still work in Fulton County. So I'm right here, native.
And how did you, so what got you interested in law enforcement? Wait a minute. Was it your mom? Yes. Okay.
No doubt. My mother could tell a story that would just stop you dead in your tracks. And she was a tremendous, gifted storyteller. And she knew a ton of history. She was a history teacher. So she would craft it in a way that you would just be on the edge of your seat. Well, we used to take long car trips.
And when you would get outside Atlanta, about an hour and a half, the radio wouldn't work any longer. Well, she had five girls to entertain. So she would usually start somewhere like, you know what this road reminds me of? Well, then we would know here it comes. And the first story that I remember being captivated by was Bonnie and Clyde. And it just went from there.
And so then she would tell us stories about John Dillinger and Al Capone and Babyface Nelson. And it just never stopped being interesting to me. So from the age of four on, it was always, what can I learn about? What can I read about? Who can I go meet? What can I go see? And when I was eight, they took me to see the death car. And then when I was 12, they took me to Alcatraz.
So it just never left me.
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Chapter 2: How did a serial killer become a victim?
So the way he would commit these crimes, he would stash civilian clothes in a locker at the bus station when they docked the first time. Because he was in the Navy.
So when they came around the second time, he would go to the bus station, change out of his uniform into civilian clothes, walk down the street, rob the bank, walk back, change back into his uniform, and literally walk back on the ship. Well, anybody walking in downtown San Francisco or wherever he was, they're not going to look at a naval man twice.
So even if they've gotten some alarm call, they're not going to look at him. And that's not how, you know, the witnesses are going to say he was dressed anyway. And by the time they're really investigating the case, that literally that ship has sailed and he's in another port. And it was just such a brilliant yet elementary type experience. you know, scam that I thought I got to meet this guy.
And then from our first meeting, we just became friends. And I mean, he was funny. He was smart. He would openly tell you different things. And he put a lot of things in perspective. And the first time I got to meet him in person, I got up on the porch. I knocked on the door and he's in the back of the house and says, you know, come on in.
And so I was joking with him that, you know, hey, you know, you're not real security conscious, you know, being funny. And he went, listen, the minute I walked out of Alcatraz, I told myself I will never be behind a locked door again. And I thought, you know what? I get it. I love that. So, you know, you learn from anybody so I can learn.
from a fantastic police commissioner and I can learn from an ex-criminal. They all have an expertise to share that you can use for the greater good. And he's just one of those people that I just connected with on a lot of levels. And he was a family person. He was super devoted to his family. And in a full circle moment, again, when I was 12, my parents took me to Alcatraz.
Then I befriended Robert. And then his daughter invited me to participate in his memorial service on Alcatraz, which was an experience. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I can't even tell you. It was just... It was overwhelming to see the devotion of his daughter and then the respect from the Rangers. I mean, it was really unbelievable. And we had Michael Esslinger, who's an expert in Alcatraz.
He's written tons of books. I mean, he was basically our private guide along with the Rangers. So we got to go places the general public doesn't ever get to go. So it was awesome.
And you were saying that his daughter released his ashes underneath the cell? Yes.
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Chapter 3: What was Robert's unique bank robbery method?
So he had a face mask, that little dust mask. He had an orange, you know, the little reflecting thing that you wear.
The vest, uh-huh.
The vest. He had the little, we call them Cadillacs in prison. The long thing so you don't have to bend over so you pick up. And the little scooper thing you put it in. And blue jeans and a white shirt. That was his kind of, he would dress up like that and wander around while he watched the schedule of when these guys would come and go.
And then he would take his stuff and roll it up and stick it in the bushes and then leave and then come back and keep watching him.
So he knew the schedule of, of the deliveries and he went out and he got bear mace and he actually sprayed himself with the bear mace to see, you know, it's like, it's mace, you know, just to see if, you know, how bad is this going to decapacitate this person, this guy, because he said, I didn't want to use a gun.
I didn't want to hurt them and I didn't want to be charged with a gun if something went wrong. I didn't want them to say, hey, you had a gun.
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Chapter 4: Did Bonnie and Clyde really escape justice?
They have like the road closed off. He said, they immediately closed the bridges. So they closed the bridges. So nothing but police could come in. He said he jumped out, jumped off the inner tube, ran up the street to a, a title company. Cause he also was a real estate agent, walked in the front door. He said, I stripped off everything, walked in the front door.
And, um, she said, I mean, he was listening. As soon as I walked in, I was standing there and said, Hey, I need a copy of my closing statement from last week or from two weeks ago or whatever. They were like, Oh, okay. And he said, do you hear that? And they were like, what? And all he said, just then you started to hear the, he goes, this sirens or something. Wonder what happened.
And they were like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I do. I hear it. He said, so I knew if I ever needed an alibi, I could say, I was in that thing when I heard this siren. Oh, that's brilliant. Didn't live too, too far from the place. Anyway, so yeah, they searched for him and searched for him and searched for him.
And he's one of those guys that whenever people talk to me and say, you know, do you ever think about doing anything again? I'm like, yeah. And they're like, well, what would be the perfect crime? I'm like, well, I can think of lots of perfect crimes. They're like, well, then why don't you do something? I'm like, because I can't think of the fly in the ointment. That's what gets you messed up.
Got you. Yep. Plan out some great, great crimes where you've never seen me. I haven't done anything. I was nowhere near it. You've got drop phones and you're using different computers and you never have to go in the place. You never have to do anything. Yeah. But I'm saying there's just, there's always that thing you cannot think of.
And in his case, when he took off running, he'd never been arrested. He took his mask and he threw his mask down. He said, I didn't mean to, I was just running. He said, I thought I had kept it with me and it just fell out, but I was running so fast. I didn't, I didn't. He's like, the thing is nobody was chasing him, you know, but he was gone.
Like, I mean, literally before the phone call really went out, he was already on the inner tube. So he dropped his mask. He said, no big deal. They got my DNA. Doesn't matter. I've never been arrested. And that mask could have got come from any place anywhere. Wasn't too worried about it. Um, and he said, so, you know, and they got, they've got nothing.
Well, the FBI came and they reviewed, they talked to everybody and keep in mind, the police show up. They started arresting these guys walking around with the, they're handcuffing all these guys. There's 20 of them walking around. What's going on? Hey, get on the ground. Yeah. So, but not him. They got a lot of suspects.
So he said what ended up happening in that case was the FBI, they talked to everybody and they were looking through all the reports that came in because people start calling in. It might be my neighbor, might be this person. I think I talked to my buddy Joe down in the bar. He said this. He said they went through it all, nothing.
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