Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Gene Borrello on Cooperating, Witness Protection, & Breaking Mafia Code
Thu, 06 Mar 2025
Gene Borrello talks about cooperation. Gene's Book https://www.amazon.com/Born-LIfe-Borrello-Ex-Bonanno-Enforcer/dp/1667805576?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAabgl5rzOHLgE9s24QKECb33XCHl7rgFGmclEwHxuOOR7hLh-zzeY7gfFOY_aem_Y-uyMySLcpR82zgiyv5YBAGene's IG https://www.instagram.com/geneborrello/?hl=enUse promo code COX at https://www.mybookie.agDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [email protected] you extra clips and behind the scenes content?Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news 🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/reFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon6900:00 - Who You're Telling On Matters07:02 - Cooperation and Risks in State Cases ️15:00 - Witness Protection and Corruption24:53 - Cooperation and Its Consequences ️34:01 - The Complexity of Cooperation41:36 - Understanding Plea Deals and Trials ️55:54 - Sentencing Outcomes and Surprises1:02:00 - The Decision to Cooperate1:15:06 - Journey After Release
Chapter 1: What is cooperation in the mafia?
It's not what you're telling on, it's who you're telling on. If you're telling on the right people, you're walking out. Cooperation, it was created for mafia. We vow to not ever do this. Our code, I have it on my arm. I'm a sellout. But I walked out the door. I was facing for 100 years.
You know, you get the rat thing, snitch, rat, all that stuff. So, and this is what I get in the comments all the time, which is basically what they say is, you know, oh, you fucking, you just fucking gave somebody up and you walked right out of fucking jail. Or, oh, it's, you know, like you don't.
they act like you get arrested for fucking stealing $10 million and you go, Oh, Hey, uh, I know a guy who's got a fucking lab. And then they go look and they go knock on his door and they arrest him and they let you out of fucking jail. Like it absolutely.
No, especially if you have violence, you know what I mean? So, um, um, like I said, I'll break down the cooperative, the, the agreement, the cooperation agreement for New York in that state is the best. You can't really compare it to other States. Um, Like, when I was in the units, in the Woodstock units, right, you're with the most high-profile people in the country.
You're with people from all over every state. I was with guys from Alaska, bikers from Alaska, literally. One guy's name was Long Walker. I was dying laughing. Anyway, so you're with people all over the country, and they've all got agreements. And if you sit with a table of 10 of us, all from different states, and then New York, you will see the difference.
Yeah.
So let's say, for instance, I had a friend named Jay-Z. I had a friend named Jay-Z. He was a head Latin king out of Chicago, Illinois.
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Chapter 2: What are the risks of cooperating with law enforcement?
Okay.
They told him, if you have a murder, there's nothing under 20 years, no matter if you tell on God. You tell on Jesus Christ, put him in prison, you're getting 20 years. That's your minimum. And then we could work with you after that on Rule 35 so we could use you in other cases. Right. You understand? But your minimum is 20 years, so do not expect anything under 20. Right. You understand?
That's Chicago. Okay? Yeah. Virginia. Second Circuit. There's no point of cooperating. Okay. There's almost no point of cooperating. Oh, because they get you almost nothing. It is so horrible. When I tell you, I believe it's the Second Circuit. I believe Virginia is the Second Circuit. I'm almost positive.
When I tell you, Matt, they are cooperating for 40 years, 35 years with murders, that's what they're getting. They are cooperating and telling them everything they have and getting 30 years. Coming back, looking like they just lost their dog. Like this, look. They just got 30 years. Then you have New York, seven, eight murders, 10 murders, 12 murders.
My friends, Big Dino, Little Dino, Joey Cave, these guys are serial killers, mafia hitmen. eight years, 10 years, they'll give you a guideline of, so you'll cop out. I'll tell you now, New York, we'll get to the greatest, we'll get to the best cooperation there is. So in New York, federal New York, you'll go in front of a judge, you'll plea out to all your top charges.
They don't tell you what you're going to get, you're not going to get. You're going to cop out to your top charges. So if you have murder, you're pleading out to all six of your murders and all the top charges, and you'll cop out to life plus life plus life plus life plus life plus 60. That's what you'll cop out to. I've seen guys cop out to six lives plus 70 years.
And then when you have the 5K agreement, 5K agreement, and you told on some people in New York, these big guys or whatever names you're cooperating against, you go in front of the judge, and with the 5K agreement, your minimum mandatory is no more. So if you have six life sentences, now it becomes zero to life. So the judge can give you one day, zero to natural life in prison.
That's his range now. Now, if you don't have the 5K, your minimum mandatory is life, obviously. So... With the 5K letter. And I had friends. Sammy Cavano, 19 murders, 5 years. Joey Caves, 7 murders, 8 years. Big Dino, 11 murders. 10 years, okay? I'll keep naming them. In New York, this is. 15 murders, 8 murders, 6 murders. They work with anything.
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Chapter 3: What are the consequences of witness protection?
And I'm going to tell you why they do these deals. Now, I'm not saying New York is the big gang city, but it technically is. All the high-profile guys, a lot of big-timers come out of New York, especially with organized crime. Cooperation came from mafia. It was created for mafia. They had no way to put these guys. They were cooperating. They were scared for their lives, you know?
So they made these deals so scrumptious because at one time, Mafia ruled the country. So now, okay, how are we going to get these guys to cooperate? We got to make it, you know, worth it for them. Sammy Guevara. That paved the way for everybody. They said, oh my God, this guy got five years for killing 19 people. He was the head of an organization.
They basically, when you sit with prosecutors and you sit with the agents, they tell you, we have to make it worth your while. We can't tell you what you're going to get, but nine out of 10 times, you're going to get a really good deal. So when you go in front of a judge and you cooperate against John Gotti's or these Vinny and Saro's, in my case, these big-time guys, time served.
I walked out the door right off the courtroom. I did six years, but I walked out the door. I was facing 100 years. Well, so why did you do six years?
Because it was that long while these guys are fighting their cases?
No. Because you have violence. They want some time out of you. So when you have violence, you have so much crime. And now I remember I had three different conspiracies. I'm a violent, predicate, persistent. I have multiple felonies already. And I'm going to front. I'm admitting to a thousand violent crimes.
All right.
Think about that. You know, you got to get some time out of me. Something. It's not like, now if I had like a case like yours and I'm cooperating against the people I did, I probably wouldn't do, I probably would literally be out on bail the whole time. Right. I would be out on bail the whole time. With no violence in New York and you're cooperating against big people, you won't even be in jail.
My cousin Anthony, he didn't do a day. Only six months before he, only reason why he did six months because he didn't cooperate yet. He waited to get bail. When he got bailed out on $2 million, he never did another day in jail. He got time served, not one day. Right. Think about that. And he had murder. He killed his own brother-in-law. But at the end of the day, he was older.
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Chapter 4: How does plea bargaining work in mafia cases?
Nicole Justieri, who's the attorney general of fucking Eastern District right now. That was my prosecutor. She's huge. She's fucking, this girl's brutal, by the way. Friendly when you're with her. When you're not, she's brutal. She told Florida, okay, so you're not going to drop the charges? We gave you the evidence. Okay, well, he did it for organized crime. Take care.
And pulled the whole case from them. They were furious. They wanted to give me 20 years out there because I was sticking up jewelry stores. Right. Tying them up in the jewelry store. So they wanted. Not good. No. They wanted. I mean, I was taking the whole store. Right. You know what I'm saying? We were taking the store, you know, tying them up and taking the store.
So I says, well, they had me on wiretaps. Florida never had no evidence against me. My cousin was wearing a wire. So Florida was able to indict me with my cousin's wiretaps. So Nicole wanted me to cooperate. So she's throwing everything at me. You know what I mean? When I sat down and cooperated, he says, hey, listen, I'm going to be honest with you. Florida's looking to hang me.
If you're not going to get rid of Florida, there's no point in me doing this. She goes, I'm trying. They're being hard asses. They don't want to drop the charges.
Yeah, I'd rather do my time in the Fed.
I'd rather just take my time. They're going to railroad me. So it's PBL out there, punishable by life. If you blow trial in Florida on an armed robbery, they give you natural life if they want. You know that, right? It's called punishable by life. So if you blow trial to a robbery in a one with a gun, it holds natural life in prison. I don't know if you know that. It's called PBL. Yeah.
So I was at a 20 guideline with them. So if I blow a trial, I get an extra life. Right. So I'm telling them, if you don't get Florida out of there, they're trying to hang me. Nicole Agitieri goes, okay, you don't want to drop the case? Well, he's organized crime. And they pulled the whole case from them. Right. They literally pulled it. Didn't exist in one. I got sentenced to that in New York.
That's how much she looked out for me. Other than that, I was fucked. Florida was looking to bang me over the head. They didn't give a fuck if I told on fucking kingpins. They don't care. They wanted my head on a stick. I went to their state. I was on wiretap saying I'm going to tear the state to pieces. I'm on wiretap saying that. I'm like, yo, I'm going to tear this thing to pieces.
And they were really after me. That was Boca Raton. So let's go back.
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Chapter 5: What are the sentencing outcomes for cooperating witnesses?
Which it hit gangland the next day, bro. If I got out of there. That's how fast it went there. So when I told them, they said, okay, we're going to get you out of here. They put me, they called for me and says, Borrello, medical. They called me down for medical and I never came back. I told them, oh, I don't know what's going on. I went down to medical and I was gone.
They put me in Somerset County, a regular county prison under a fake name.
Okay.
And waited for me to get into the Wood Sack show. Because you got to take a lot of tech to task. You got to do all the bullshit to get in there. What is that? That's the whole thing.
I don't know what any of that is.
When you go into the Wood Sack units, right? You can't just go in. You have to be approved by everybody. And it takes like a year. Okay. You have to wait to get in there. So what? Because you got to understand something. There could be other... There's only six units. Okay.
Yeah, I was going to say everybody always thinks that, oh, you can say they'll put you in witness protection. It's a big deal to get you in there. It's not like they're doing 2,000 of these guys a year. I think the whole program has ever taken a little over 1,000.
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Chapter 6: Why do individuals decide to cooperate?
I was an automatic shoo-in because I'm testifying against organized crime, so we're automatic. There's no ifs and buts about it. Mafia, it's created for organized crime.
I heard that the number was, and I heard this a few years ago, they said the total number of people that have ever been
brought into the program is around between a thousand to fifteen hundred like that's not a lot of people for 30 for 40 fucking years in the program in the prison system you mean no well i don't side you think there's more yeah 100 i know that but in the in the prison system there's remember the jail is only six units and it's not a big unit so it only holds 80 people
Okay. You get what I'm saying? Oh, so there's 80 people there at all times?
No, it's not even packed because people are dying to get in there because it's such a sweet spot. You know, there's nothing going on, but you can't get in there. You have to be all high. It has to be where the prosecutors feel like, all right, are you really in danger? Who are you telling on? Are you really known? Mine is automatic. I'm going to be in newspapers.
I'm going to be all over the internet. My guys just beat the biggest case in the country, LaTanza High's case. He just won the fucking LaTanza case. So, you know, I have to go in there. They put me under a fake name. I had to take a lie detector test. And what they ask you in the lie detector test, are you going in here to hurt somebody?
Because people, cartel guys were trying to send people in there to kill the witnesses. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't even think about that. So let's say you're in Mexico. You're dirt poor.
Yeah.
Your family has nothing. They'll say, hey, listen, go in there, kill a witness. We'll take care of your family. They'll do it. Right. Just go in there and kill that guy. He's testifying against so-and-so, a drug leader. So they have to make sure that you're not doing that. It gave you a lie detector test. Are you being paid to go in here? All kinds of crazy questions. I passed it, obviously.
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Chapter 7: How does the journey after release affect cooperators?
Guys, I'm sorry. I have to say this, but I was so wrong. I hit him with a chair afterwards on top of it. Like I not only knocked him out, knocked his teeth out, I took a chair and smacked him across his head with it. Like I was fucked. Like you have no idea. And there was no signs of him being aggressive. He didn't want to clean the phone after he sneezed on it.
He said something nasty to me and I just wrecked him. There was no signs of him doing anything aggressive towards me. And the problem... And the warden goes, in my 30 years of experience, I feel he was defending himself. You can't make this shit up. And they didn't arrest me and got me into Woodside. Okay? So that's how much, like, when they need you, you know, they need you.
Yeah, they're going to look the other way.
Yeah, and, you know, it's on camera, me just wrecking this guy and beating him in a chair, and the warden stuck up for me.
So once you're in witness protection, I mean, how, like, are they, so you're in a special unit. Yeah, Farrington. Okay, so you're in a special unit. So, like, listen, when they were coming to question me, it was, I went six months before I saw anybody. And then, of course, then they have to fly everybody in. They're at a fucking hotel somewhere.
And then they're seeing you every day for four or five days, 10 hours a day. So I'm wondering, are these people, are they coming, going, coming?
Well, organized crime cases, they have a lot more funding. You know what I'm saying? So they have like unlimited funding almost when it's testifying against mafia. They spent $7 million on the Latanza case and lost it. They spent $7 million. So they have unlimited funds when it comes to these kind of high profile people. So they had me basically in an area where they have like safe houses. Right.
Or like places where they have like, yo, the door was crazy. Like you go inside like a building and it's like on the sixth floor of like a commercial building where it's like other businesses. Right. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And you just go up to the sixth floor and then they have like do-do-do codes and they go into like these rooms. But you're still cuffed up.
Not when I go in the room.
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