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Global News Podcast

The Global Story: The AI models invading our feeds

Sun, 15 Dec 2024

Description

AI generated influencers are being criticised for creating unrealistic beauty standards and promoting unattainable lifestyle goals. But are their feeds any less 'real' than the enhanced profiles we have been exposed to for years?

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Transcription

0.089 - 3.299 Joe Tidey

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Here's my colleague, Lucy Hawkins.

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66.277 - 85.32 Lucy Hawkins

We live in a world of influencers. Whether it's our skincare routine, the clothes we wear, or the places we visit on holiday, social media celebrities are shaping our everyday choices. But as technology advances, the lucrative influencer industry is being reshaped by models created using artificial intelligence.

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86.161 - 111.639 Lucy Hawkins

And with some AI influences accumulating massive followings, critics are raising questions, from the unrealistic beauty standards they could set to the accountability of anonymous creators. So as AI models seem certain to play an increasingly prominent role online, are developers conscious of the ethical questions, and are users equipped to decipher what's real from what's artificial intelligence?

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115.526 - 119.468 Lucy Hawkins

With me today is the BBC's cyber correspondent, Joe Tidey. Hi, Joe.

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119.889 - 120.009 Joe Tidey

Hi.

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120.509 - 134.177 Lucy Hawkins

Joe, I think if we were all asked, we would confess that we've tried products, restaurants, clothes, listened to music, all sorts of things, because we've seen it on social media. We are all at the moment being shaped, it seems, by influencers at some stage.

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134.682 - 153.627 Joe Tidey

Oh, yeah, I think so. I think if you say that your influence are immune, then you're probably lying, aren't you? Because there are certain people and characters and celebrities that we look up to or are interested in, and they have got absolutely enormous followings. So even if you weren't directly impacted, what you might find is that someone in your life has been impacted by them.

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154.027 - 159.509 Lucy Hawkins

Can we pinpoint, though, the moment when the concept of social media influences first emerged?

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160.137 - 178.222 Joe Tidey

You have to go back to the days of blogging. So early 2000s, early days of the internet, really, people start off, I don't know, a dishwasher review website and they become very passionate about it. They do regular content updates. People find the blogs, read them, become trusted, these individuals who are doing the content.

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178.642 - 193.412 Joe Tidey

And then eventually, of course, you'd get advertisers and product owners saying, oh, hang on a minute, that person's got an audience and they're a loyal, trusted audience. Why don't we get them to sponsor our product or get them to review our product. And then before you know it, you start getting a bit of money changing hands.

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193.472 - 211.304 Joe Tidey

And then, of course, things really kicked off sort of 2004, 5, 6 with the rise of Facebook, when suddenly your blog becomes even bigger. And then we move into YouTube, and YouTube sort of took blogging to vlogging, and then people became very, very popular on YouTube, so brands came to them.

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211.525 - 218.087 Joe Tidey

And the difference as well, and I think this is a really important inflection point in the whole of social media influencing, is that's when YouTube started paying back.

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230.131 - 241.474 Joe Tidey

So if you were on there doing very, very well, you were getting paid by brands to influence what people bought. But also you were getting paid by YouTube for the views you got, which drives engagement, drives you doing more content, all the rest of it.

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241.694 - 263.514 Joe Tidey

And then, of course, we're now in this era of all sorts of influencing, whether it be through sponsorships on brands or live appearances and fundraising. filling out, you know, halls and things for content creation in front of your audience, even lives at home that you can do on TikTok where people can gift you money as well. It's not just about selling products in advertising anymore.

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263.614 - 267.419 Joe Tidey

It's about having your whole content built around how can I bring in extra revenue?

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267.899 - 279.788 Lucy Hawkins

We're looking for a new oven at the moment. And I literally fell down a rabbit hole of influencers around what kind of oven we should get. It was extraordinary the amount of content that was available just on that one thing.

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279.928 - 283.611 Joe Tidey

And the problem is you've started looking for it now. So now they'll be sending you these things for months.

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283.711 - 290.316 Lucy Hawkins

Absolutely. That is exactly what's happening, Joe. But how do influencers earn most of their money now? And how much money are they making?

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291.036 - 306.547 Joe Tidey

It depends on the platform. So, for example, if you're an influencer or a YouTuber on YouTube, then you will get sort of two different revenue streams, one from the video views that YouTube will pay you a share of the ad revenue. And the other one is from deals that you can do in your video.

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306.587 - 319.195 Joe Tidey

So quite often you'll see people pause their video on YouTube and they'll say, hey, have you seen this new technology product? It's amazing. I've been using it for weeks. And then they carry on with the video after that. Whereas if you're on Instagram, there's no money back from the company.

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319.215 - 337.58 Joe Tidey

They've been talking about whether or not to give money back, but it's about the brand sponsorships for your posts, for example, and people can earn a lot. So for example, Kim Kardashian, hundreds of millions of followers, she would probably be able to command hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions of dollars per post if she posts about a particular product.

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337.6 - 351.399 Unknown

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351.859 - 364.242 Joe Tidey

And what we're seeing is more and more of these social networks are realising that if they can get the influencers on board, then they get the audiences on board. And that's what X, or formerly Twitter, is trying to do, is give money back to people who get decent engagement on the platform.

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364.795 - 374.327 Lucy Hawkins

Today, though, we're talking about AI influencers. I think that what an AI influencer is, is probably just in the name. But can you explain to us what we are talking about? What are they?

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374.647 - 379.754 Joe Tidey

Yes, all the people we've been talking about so far, they've all been real life human beings out there.

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380.134 - 381.856 Lucy Hawkins

Sometimes you wonder with Kim Kardashian. True.

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382.677 - 401.141 Joe Tidey

That's a point we'll come to as well. You do wonder with some of these people. But anyway, an AI influencer is a creation that's been built by humans in a studio or by an individual hobbyist or something that doesn't exist. So they'll be posting pictures on usually Instagram or occasionally a bit of video, potentially maybe on TikTok.

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401.562 - 420.758 Joe Tidey

And they'll be living a life as if they're a real person, but they're not. They are an artificial intelligence machine. created product i suppose and that's the reason why this is happening now is because of this rise of generative ai so it's now so simple and easy to make almost well yeah photorealistic images of people that don't exist

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421.806 - 441.782 Lucy Hawkins

You've been to meet the team in Barcelona behind one of the biggest AI influences at the moment, Aitana. I've recently been introduced to her as well, knowing that we were going to talk about her and have very quickly become quite obsessed with Aitana, actually, showing her to everyone, following her online. But how was she created? Tell us a bit about Aitana.

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442.443 - 457.24 Joe Tidey

She was created by a studio in Barcelona called the Clueless Agency. And the story goes that they were becoming a bit fed up with the kind of diva attitude of some of the influencers they were being asked to work with on adverts or sponsorship deals, that kind of thing.

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457.76 - 475.234 Joe Tidey

So they decided to start playing around with artificial intelligence and loaded up things like, for example, stable diffusion, which is a text image generator. So you can type in anything you want, wait a couple of seconds, and then the AI will produce a picture. And they thought, hang on, if we create our own model that can build her own following...

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475.894 - 499.112 Joe Tidey

We can control the person or rather the creation completely. So they did and they started about a year ago. They created this very attractive sort of, if you can imagine what the Hollywood perfect body would be, that's kind of what Itana is. Chiselled cheekbones. Chiselled cheekbones, very slim, all the rest of it, you know. And she's got very distinctive long pink hair.

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499.893 - 512.301 Joe Tidey

And that, apparently, according to the creators, is one of the reasons why she really stands out. And the thing about these pictures is they are very, very realistic. You would be hard pressed, really, to know the difference.

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512.461 - 516.444 Lucy Hawkins

Genuinely, I did not know when she was first shown to me that she was AI generated.

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516.664 - 526.789 Joe Tidey

Yeah, I think some people, they might think, oh, I can tell straight away. But I think to the untrained eye, which is, to be honest, most of us, isn't it? You look at this person, you think, wow, OK, that's a real person.

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526.809 - 533.592 Lucy Hawkins

And also when I was first shown her, she was on my phone. And so she's even smaller. So she looks, you know, it's harder to see some of the imperfections.

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533.632 - 539.535 Joe Tidey

Which is how 99% of people would come across Itana, exactly as you say, on a small screen like a phone.

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539.795 - 553.043 Clueless Agency Representative

We intend to always try to make it as similar as what an influencer would do. We take a picture with me in the image and we have to replace it with AI. So we have to play a little bit with lights and shadows to make it as real as possible.

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553.243 - 571.051 Joe Tidey

And you wouldn't really know it's AI. It's in the profile writing that this is an AI made creation. But Aitana doesn't just post. They don't just post pictures of Aitana. Do you see how I almost personified her there? You've got to be so careful with artificial intelligence. But they don't just post pictures of her. They have stories.

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571.131 - 579.593 Joe Tidey

So on Facebook, you know, you have these things on your reels where you can post, you know, this is what I've been doing today. 10 seconds of her doing shopping, 10 seconds of her out for lunch with friends.

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579.953 - 583.414 Lucy Hawkins

Well, let's be more specific. In the past few days, it's been Naitana's birthday.

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583.434 - 584.414 Joe Tidey

Oh, I didn't know.

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586.375 - 591.356 Lucy Hawkins

So they posted her at the table. There were balloons. She'd set the table for people who were coming around for her birthday dinner.

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591.636 - 610.786 Joe Tidey

That's so interesting. I had a chat with them when I was there saying, are you going to age her? Is she going to age sort of in real time? And they're still deciding whether or not to keep her as a sort of mid-twenties or whether or not to age her. Yeah, so it's this whole idea of her being not just a model, but an influencer.

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610.906 - 619.851 Joe Tidey

So that is someone who lives a life of glamour, of fun, of luxury products. Because, of course, as an influencer, that is crucial.

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620.427 - 633.133 Clueless Agency Representative

We spent like two months creating this personality and understanding how she would speak, how she would interact with her community. So this is why we believe she has been working and she still works.

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633.945 - 641.41 Joe Tidey

If you're going to be an influencer that posts about your boring life where you don't do anything, no one's going to want to sponsor that. You're not going to hold many Louis Vuitton bags and stuff like that.

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641.43 - 652.917 Lucy Hawkins

But they're really particular about what she wears, for instance. They make very definite decisions because they've created her with a certain sense of style. So therefore they won't dress her in a certain way.

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653.462 - 670.929 Joe Tidey

Yeah, and that was interesting when we were in Barcelona because we went out on a shoot with them and they talked us through the process of how they take pictures of nothing and then pictures with someone on the team and then they just swap out the person for Aitana. And it's so sophisticated, this artificial intelligence machine they've built.

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671.269 - 686.818 Joe Tidey

They wouldn't say exactly which piece of software it is, but we can imagine it's... sort of stable diffusion plus others. They are open source, of course, so anyone can download those and tweak them and use them. And they wrote in Aitana on a sunny day enjoying so-and-so in the park. Press to go.

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686.838 - 690.501 Lucy Hawkins

I mean, they went up to Park World and it was very famous in Barcelona.

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690.541 - 697.365 Joe Tidey

Yeah, very picturesque already. But the software made about 25 different variations of Aitana in that position.

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697.665 - 709.19 Clueless Agency Representative

And if we want, we can do a simple prompt now, put Aitana, and then... complement all the prompt with more things like the clothes, the acting.

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709.23 - 716.956 Joe Tidey

Different poses, different outfits. At one point, for some reason, it put a leather hat on her head and the team started laughing because they were like, oh, Aitana would never wear that.

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717.287 - 725.355 Clueless Agency Representative

Aitana will never wear this, for example. So it's funny because it's like, wow, I would love her to wear this, but she will not wear this.

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725.575 - 728.137 Joe Tidey

Which made me laugh because, of course, she doesn't exist.

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728.177 - 731.2 Lucy Hawkins

There are other advantages, I suppose, to Aitana. She never gets tired.

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731.581 - 731.861 Joe Tidey

True.

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732.201 - 739.248 Lucy Hawkins

Never moans. They can work her 24-7. I mean, what else do they say about the benefits of having Aitana rather than a real person?

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739.528 - 758.666 Joe Tidey

Well, that's the one they always come back to is the fact that they are fully in control of this person. They can run her ragged because she doesn't exist. But I think there's also an element here of the novelty factor, because there are some brands out there who know that Aitana is AI, know that she's got this almost iconic background of how she created and how she's become so famous.

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758.906 - 776.322 Joe Tidey

We should say as well, she's got 335,000 followers on Instagram. So she is As far as I could find, the most popular, this new wave of realistic looking models. So there's the novelty element, but there's also the fact that she looks how she looks, that are really getting people excited. And she's done a lot of brand deals.

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776.342 - 783.288 Joe Tidey

They reckon they make thousands of dollars a month through advertising and sponsorship with her. The best they've done is 10,000 a month.

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785.683 - 802.465 Lucy Hawkins

So we've looked at influencer culture and how recent AI developments have transformed this industry. Next, I want to look at the ethical considerations surrounding AI models like Aitana and the future of these digital celebrities as the pressure for perfection intensifies online.

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877.554 - 903.796 Lucy Hawkins

You're listening to The Global Story from the BBC World Service. There's a fresh episode available as a podcast each weekday. Just search for The Global Story wherever you get your podcasts. With me is Jo Tidy. Jo, Aitana, when you look at her, many people would say she's perfect. Is there a sense that AIO influencers like Aitana are setting really unrealistic beauty standards?

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904.347 - 925.187 Joe Tidey

100%, yeah. I think if you look at the pictures of Aitana, and it has to be said there are others like her out there that are AI-generated models and influencers, they're all very sexualised. They're all very slim women with big breasts and they all act and look in certain sort of coquettish ways. There is very much a male gaze running through this kind of

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925.928 - 938.038 Joe Tidey

art or culture, whatever you want to call it. And there are some pretty heavy critics about this because, of course, already with influencers, we see perfect lives, particularly Instagram, being displayed to us. People are super slim.

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938.378 - 952.75 Joe Tidey

They use very clever lighting to make themselves look even better or angles, you know, and then you have this extra level that's now coming in of artificially generated women who are looking an unattainable level of traditional attractiveness.

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952.97 - 975.113 Unknown

I see huge issues with the rise of AI models and influencers. I think they're setting an unrealistic beauty standard that is close enough to being real that a lot of people who follow them don't realize they're not real, especially teenagers, young teen girls. But then the perfection is so unachievable because it isn't real. That is something like none of us can ever reach.

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975.413 - 979.536 Lucy Hawkins

Have they tried to create an artificially generated woman who is more realistic?

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979.836 - 998.048 Joe Tidey

They said they have because the two things that this agency in particular does is they do Itana, which is an influencer, brand sponsorship deals, that kind of thing. But they also do bespoke AI creations for brands. And they said to me that they have tried to do kind of more curvy models, for example, or different diverse looks.

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998.488 - 1005.173 Joe Tidey

But really, according to them, the advertisers only want the traditional Hollywood style woman because that's what gets the most eyeballs.

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1005.533 - 1019.536 Clueless Agency Representative

In the beginning, we tried to make more curvy models, for example, or more not standardized models. And clients didn't like that. They usually want like a perfect model. But you can see this everywhere in publicity.

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1019.836 - 1024.217 Joe Tidey

They have said they're now experimenting. They've built some men, some male AI.

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1024.257 - 1025.177 Lucy Hawkins

I was about to ask.

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1025.197 - 1036.6 Joe Tidey

Yeah. Yeah. Well, no one wants them. No one's interested. They haven't released any as influencers, but they have released some as kind of models that they could put on different advertising campaigns. And according to them, no one wants that.

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1036.7 - 1051.004 Lucy Hawkins

There have been a few occasions, Joe, where online content created with AI has not been signposted correctly. Are they obliged, these influencer accounts, these AI influencer accounts, to declare that they're enhanced or even who is behind them?

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1051.164 - 1071.151 Joe Tidey

Yes, it has to be labelled in some way saying AI generated. That's according to Instagram's terms and conditions. And all the ones that I found when I was researching this story, they do. They are open about that in the profile. Not at the top, perhaps. It'll say influencer from Chicago, interested in this, this, this and this. AI generated at the bottom.

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1071.331 - 1078.816 Joe Tidey

And that's even worse when you look at the pictures, because, of course, there's normally a caption to go with the pictures and then right at the bottom it'll say, this is AI generated.

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1078.956 - 1091.905 Joe Tidey

So I think potentially there is an issue there because, of course, most people don't look at the profile of a picture that pops up on their For You page, for example, or their algorithmically generated suggestions of what you might be interested in. They'll just scroll through it.

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1092.265 - 1106.779 Joe Tidey

And I think even if they are labelled, there are some people that haven't really understood that or they haven't read that. Because if you look at the comments on some of Aitana's pictures, for example, they say things like, wow, I wish I had your body. What's your gym routine? That kind of thing.

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1106.919 - 1127.796 Joe Tidey

And I don't think it helps when Aitana does posts about being in the gym and working out and great workout in the gym today. This is the nutrition brand that I use, or these are the sports equipments that I have in the gym. This all kind of perpetuates the myth surrounding Itana as being a real person that works hard in the gym, watches what she eats and looks like she does really.

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1128.749 - 1141.817 Lucy Hawkins

Itana though is controlled, but are we going to get to a point where these AI generated influencers are going to become more autonomous and actually create content without that kind of human input or control?

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1142.378 - 1160.73 Joe Tidey

Quite possibly. I think the whole point of having an AI influencer under the control of a person or a studio is that you can control them and that you can do anything with that character to make money for yourself. So I think there will be a little bit of a point in which the automation becomes a problem. So right now, yes, you could make a chatbot, for example.

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1160.93 - 1177.023 Joe Tidey

You could talk to Aitana for days if you want to. And that could be a good idea for fans, for example. But then you wouldn't want her to say something wrong or do something wrong, which affects her image, because this is all about image. That's all it is. It is very superficial. And it's all just about how you can use an image of someone that doesn't exist to make money.

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1177.203 - 1181.567 Lucy Hawkins

That will then raise the question, though, who is ultimately going to be accountable for the content?

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1181.767 - 1193.298 Joe Tidey

Yeah, and that is a conversation we will no doubt be having in a few years' time. My mind just drifted off to another story that I've been doing recently about an AI chatbot that was created to keep scam callers on the line for as long as possible.

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1193.598 - 1207.088 Unknown

Oh, isn't that lovely? A survey, you say? I'd be delighted to help, dear. Give me a moment, though. My hearing is not what it used to be, so I might need you to repeat things now and then. And that is completely automated.

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1207.288 - 1223.278 Joe Tidey

So they just trust that that AI that's pretending to be a sort of doddery, confused old lady is not going to go off script too much and say something silly. The stakes are very low there because this is an organisation that's trying to annoy some criminals. It doesn't matter if this AI says something silly.

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1223.318 - 1227.161 Joe Tidey

But if you've got AI influencer that's gone off the rails a bit, that is a potential problem.

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1227.401 - 1244.237 Lucy Hawkins

Is Aitana and other characters like her the precursor to not just what you've described in terms of the scanning, but just the more widespread use of AI models in other industries? Thinking about one of the jobs that I do as a BBC news presenter, am I about to be replaced?

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1244.457 - 1264.576 Joe Tidey

Have you heard of Notebook LM? No. This is a massive thing that's sort of gone viral recently. Google has created a new AI system whereby you can put whatever information you want into it and then it will read you a 10-minute, 20-minute, half an hour podcast with two fake people, two Americans, and they're having a very, very lifelike chat about the topics.

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1264.656 - 1278.203 Joe Tidey

So people are using it for their research. If you're, for example, you're doing a paper on photosynthesis and you're down the gym, you don't want to read that. Put it into the notebook LM and you can hear two fake AI creations having a chat about your paper.

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1278.403 - 1287.568 Unknown

All right. So you've been asking about this whole brain rewiring thing and how to actually use it to get stuff done. Not just like the feel good stuff, but real change, you know?

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1287.808 - 1298.056

Exactly. No sugarcoating today. We're going deep on this. Straight from Bob Doyle's Evolve Your Excellence handbook. Stuff he usually reserves for his paying clients, but we're giving you that inside track.

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1298.196 - 1316.469 Joe Tidey

Love it. No fluff, just straight to the good stuff. We're racing towards a very synthetic future when it comes to media. I think that people know that influencers on Instagram, they are projecting a perfection anyway without AI. Even, for example, do you know some of these pictures that you see of quite rich people in private jets?

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1316.629 - 1334.722 Joe Tidey

They might not be on a private jet because you can hire a private jet that doesn't leave the airport and just take pictures of yourself inside a private jet for clout, you know. So there's already a real layer of fakeness to social media. So some people would argue, is AI much of a leap on from that? And that is the argument from the clueless agency.

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1334.822 - 1338.705 Joe Tidey

They will say, well, if you compare Aitana to other influencers, she's the same as the rest.

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1339.085 - 1356.711 Clueless Agency Representative

At the end of the day, she is an influencer, but comparing her to the rest of the influencers, she looks the same as the rest. I believe that we are here to stay and AI technology is here to stay as well. So in a way, we have to combine and hold hands and see if we can do it together.

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1357.051 - 1367.755 Lucy Hawkins

For so many people listening, this is all actually quite worrying. Does it also mean that we can expect some other regulatory action to be taken by governments? Or how would that work? Or what would that look like, Jo?

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1368.26 - 1386.837 Joe Tidey

I think it would be really difficult because you could argue this is art. You could argue this is using computers to create art in the same way that a portrait photographer would do that. I suppose what we're seeing already is social networks getting on the front foot and trying to do something. So they've written in the last few years, if this is AI generated, you'd need to label it.

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1386.997 - 1405.533 Joe Tidey

Whether or not they're enforcing those rules... I'm not sure. As I mentioned, the ones that I found were labelled, but kind of in the smallest way possible. The way that governments are going, particularly in the UK and in the EU and in the US, we are seeing a drive to try and protect children online. So if there was any legislation brought in, I imagine it would be something like that.

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1405.573 - 1412.88 Joe Tidey

So, for example, you would have no AI influencers on the feeds of children, something like that, but so hard to police.

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1413.482 - 1417.683 Lucy Hawkins

So from what you've seen in your experiences in Barcelona, where is all this headed, Joe?

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1417.843 - 1435.067 Joe Tidey

What I found really interesting when I was in Barcelona with the Clueless Agency is what they're working on right now is a project that is very, very 2024. They are trying to come up with the face for the AI in-car voice assistant for a major car company. And they've called it Eileen because everything they do has an AI in it.

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1448.076 - 1467.261 Joe Tidey

It just strikes me as something that is inevitable because we're talking to AI now by voice assistants all the time. It's going to increase. I'm not just talking, obviously, about Alexa or Siri or Hey Google. It's going to go on and on and on. And we are going to want to humanify these robots and these machines. So that was quite an interesting point and I can see that happening a lot more.

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1467.341 - 1482.167 Joe Tidey

The other thing they're doing, which is potentially interesting and exciting for them, is they've created another AI influencer, because ITAN has been so successful, who is less sexualised. Again, it's a young woman, but she's got a blonde buzz cut and she is a musician.

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1482.567 - 1500.853 Joe Tidey

As well as the pictures and the stories, they're adding music as well, because of course music is now very much up for grabs when it comes to generative AI. So that's something I could see going quite fast in that direction, because I think if you're a commercial entity, you're looking beyond the influencer sponsorships and the brand deals. You're looking at appearances.

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1501.313 - 1506.494 Joe Tidey

And if you think about some of the appearances music-wise we've had in the last few years, for example, with ABBA.

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1506.714 - 1520.58 Unknown

During a five-week recording session with 160 cameras, they had to wear special suits with digital devices to capture every movement. That's The performances today will be edited with their faces of yesterday.

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1520.68 - 1522.241 Joe Tidey

You've seen the ABBA show they're doing.

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1522.401 - 1522.641 Lucy Hawkins

Voyage, yeah.

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1522.661 - 1524.282 Joe Tidey

Yeah, Voyage, where they have holograms.

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1524.322 - 1525.003 Lucy Hawkins

Holograms, yeah.

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1525.463 - 1530.827 Joe Tidey

Why not do that if you're an influencer agency and you're trying to branch out and get into different industries? I can see that happening.

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1530.967 - 1539.673 Lucy Hawkins

If you had a group of teenagers here with us right now, what would be your best piece of advice to them around how they're using AI and what they're consuming?

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1540.123 - 1552.308 Joe Tidey

I suppose there's two different things there. What you're consuming, I think, is really important to know what's real and what's fake. The easy way in this example would just be to read the bottom of the captions because it would normally be labelled. Go to the profile.

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1552.328 - 1554.489 Lucy Hawkins

Have you seen a teenager scroll, though, on their phone?

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1554.509 - 1575.32 Joe Tidey

Yes, I've seen me scroll as well. Hours without... Stopping to read the captions. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Whereas in terms of the other question of what they could be doing, I think it's very exciting. I think if you're a teenager, it's way beyond what it used to be. So when I was at university, Facebook was just starting and, you know, the idea of being an influencer in some way.

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1575.34 - 1594.309 Joe Tidey

Yeah, there were bloggers out there, but no one was making serious money or having an entire career where you can fill out arenas and stuff just from social networks. But that is there now. And when you've got AI on your side as well, if you use it responsibly, you can do some pretty amazing things. I don't think we should be scared of AI. I think that we should work out how to use it responsibly.

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1594.529 - 1596.729 Lucy Hawkins

Joe, thank you. I hope we see each other again.

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1597.93 - 1598.55 Joe Tidey

The real people.

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1598.85 - 1604.992 Lucy Hawkins

Real people. And yeah, I'm not out of a job very soon because of the AI-generated newsreader. Thanks, Joe. Thanks.

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1605.092 - 1605.292 Joe Tidey

Thanks.

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1608.78 - 1609.38 Unknown

Until then, bye-bye.

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1630.956 - 1645.348 Unknown

Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by. And in 2017, Miranda, a university tutor from London, joins a yoga school that promises profound transformation.

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1645.368 - 1651.833 Unknown

It felt a really safe and welcoming space. After the yoga classes, I felt amazing.

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1652.373 - 1664.725 Unknown

But soon, that calm, welcoming atmosphere leads to something far darker, a journey that leads to allegations of grooming, trafficking and exploitation across international borders.

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1664.745 - 1675.875 Unknown

I don't have my passport, I don't have my phone, I don't have my bank cards, I have nothing. The passport being taken, the being in a house and not feeling like they can leave.

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1676.716 - 1695.201 Unknown

World of Secrets is where untold stories are unveiled and hidden realities are exposed. In this new series, we're confronting the dark side of the wellness industry with the hope of a spiritual breakthrough gives way to disturbing accusations. You just get sucked in so gradually.

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1696.422 - 1724.583 Unknown

And it's done so skillfully that you don't realize. And it's like this, the secret that's there. I wanted to believe that, you know, that... Whatever they were doing, even if it seemed gross to me, was for some spiritual reason that I couldn't yet understand. Revealing the hidden secrets of a global yoga network. I feel that I have no other choice.

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1724.783 - 1754.441 Unknown

The only thing I can do is to speak about this and to put my reputation and everything else on the line. I want truth and justice. and for other people to not be hurt, for things to be different in the future. To bring it into the light and almost alchemise some of that evil stuff that went on and take back the power.

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1757.082 - 1762.564 Unknown

World of Secrets, Season 6, The Bad Guru. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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