US and Russia forge ahead with negotiations without Ukraine and reset ties. President Zelensky emphasizes the need to not be excluded from talks. Also: a special report from eastern Congo, and could we soon grow teeth?
Chapter 1: What is the main topic of this episode?
Hello, I'm Oliver Conway. This edition is published in the early hours of Wednesday the 19th of February. We'll have more reaction to the dramatic reset in relations between the US and Russia, as they agree to press ahead with negotiations on the war in Ukraine, despite excluding Kiev from their talks. Israelis learn the fate of the youngest hostages in Gaza.
And a British couple arrested in Iran last month have been charged with spying. Also in the podcast.
A bomb fell on the child, killing his parents. It was the M23 who dropped the bomb and I lost six members of my family.
We have a special report from eastern Congo. And forget dentures, could we soon grow replacement teeth? But first, according to leaked intelligence from February 2022, Vladimir Putin believed his invasion forces could overthrow the Ukrainian government within three days. In the end, his troops were stopped at the gates of Kiev.
Chapter 2: Why is Ukraine excluded from US-Russia talks?
But three years on, with hundreds of thousands dead on both sides, the Russian leader now appears to have the upper hand after seemingly winning over Donald Trump. The first tangible sign of the new reality came in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, as the top Russian and American diplomats met in Riyadh. Our correspondent Tom Bateman was there.
Hier war die USA, der größte Einzelhändler und Armhändler der Ukraine, sitzend mit ihrem Freundeskrieg. Danach hat die US-Delegation, die von Mr. Rubio geführt wurde, die Diskussionen als aufgeregt beschrieben.
Die Amerikaner sagten, dass sie vier Prinzipien mit den Russen verabschiedeten, die Gespräche zwischen den Delegationen, die breiteren diplomatischen Verbindungen, die Teams ermöglichen, auf einem Weg zu arbeiten, um den Krieg in der Ukraine zu beenden, and then what the US called historic economic and investment opportunities with Russia. But what of any concessions being demanded of Moscow?
Mr Rubio wouldn't set any out to reporters after the meeting, saying only that it would be a matter for future talks. Mr Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, made clear European peacekeeping forces were out of the question.
We explained today that the appearance of armed forces from the same NATO countries, but under a different flag, under the flag of the European Union or under national flags, doesn't change anything in this regard. Of course this is unacceptable to us.
Pressed on why the US wasn't laying down conditions for Moscow in order to agree a durable peace, Mr Rubio said the two sides would only agree to ending the war on terms they were each happy with. But today's events have so far done little to allay the biggest fears in Ukraine, of being forced to accept and enter the war on Russia's terms, with the peace being carved up.
Ich weiß nicht, was ich zu denken habe.
Honestly, I don't know what to think, because Trump is very unpredictable. Essentially, as long as there are no clear actions or a specific demand for deadlines, I can't really form an opinion on this. I think that most likely certain territories will have to be conceded, at least for some time, to achieve peace.
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Chapter 3: How is Ukraine reacting to being left out of negotiations?
I think the priority in our country right now is to save as many lives as possible. But I know that even if there is a ceasefire now, Russia will try to attack our country again. And we don't know what the consequences of that will be in the future.
The view from the Ukrainian capital. So what, if anything, can President Zelensky do to influence any settlement of the war? Here's our Ukraine-Correspondent James Waterhouse.
As two major powers discussed the future of his country elsewhere, in Turkey a visibly irritated President Zelensky highlighted what he saw as the flaws with his country's exclusion from this first stage of talks.
In order for the war to end with a reliable and lasting peace, we must not make any mistakes. This is possible only when the negotiations are fair and Ukraine, America and the whole of Europe are represented at the negotiating table. Guarantees are developed with the participation of all who are really capable of giving them.
Ukraines Leader said he would never legally recognize the territory Russia had seized and called for, in the likely absence of NATO membership, a strong Ukrainian military, possibly backed by foreign troops in a post-ceasefire existence. For Dymko, a soldier we caught up with in Kiev, America's approach has been damaging to morale.
Wir sind absolut fürchtet. Wir wollen glauben, dass Präsident Donald Trump auch ein weiser Mann ist, der seine Politik und seine Verhandlungen ernst nimmt. Was auch immer in Präsident Trumps Kopf entschieden wird, ob er mit der Ukraine oder nicht, wird einen enormen Einfluss auf die Ukraine machen.
Mr. Zelensky was scheduled to travel to Saudi Arabia after visiting his Turkish counterpart, President Erdogan, but he said he had now postponed the trip so not to add legitimacy to the early negotiations to which he was not invited.
James Waterhouse in the Ukrainian capital. Just before we came into the studio, President Trump said he would probably meet Vladimir Putin before the end of the month. In a wide-ranging news conference at Mar-a-Lago, he also said he was disappointed by complaints, presumably from Ukraine and Europe, of being frozen out of the talks.
I think I have the power to end this war. Und ich denke, es geht sehr gut. Aber heute habe ich gehört, oh, wir wurden nicht eingeladen. Na, du bist da seit drei Jahren gewesen. Du hättest es drei Jahre enden sollen. Du hättest es nie angefangen. Du hättest einen Deal gemacht. Ich hätte einen Deal für die Ukraine gemacht, der sie fast alle Lande geben würde. Alles. Fast alle Lande.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of a US-Russia reset for Ukraine?
Both Europe, the EU, as potential guarantor of any peace deal, and Ukraine as a party to this war, which interestingly Marco Rubio kept calling conflict only. So there was a slight shift in vocabulary, if you want. So I think that would not be interpreted or looked at kindly by Ukrainian side either, because they see...
Es gibt einige Zeichen, dass die amerikanische Position auf die Entschädigung der Sanktionen schwingt. Und dafür braucht die USA Europa, weil, interessanterweise, auch in Lavrovs Lingo, Europa ist der Feind, Europa ist eine Anti-Russische Kraft, auch wenn es eine europäische Krieg ist. Und es wird eventually auf Europa gehen, würde es nicht sein?
Olga, eine der anderen Dinge, die sich heute in der Frage gestellt hat, war die Möglichkeit, Putin und Zelenskyy zu sprechen. Ich glaube, ich bin recht, wenn ich sage, dass Putins Sprechleiter das in seiner Antwort auf die Gespräche gemacht hat. Wie wahrscheinlich ist das irgendwann?
Well, I guess that is possible, of course. I think Putin is very pleased that currently negotiations are going directly between US and Russia. And Ukraine is not at the table. Putin is definitely very happy with that. And it seems, at least they try to show that they feel very empowered, very confident. But the truth is that there are still issues they...
So I guess that's possible, but once again the crucial thing is what the details of this meeting and this agreement will be.
Was ist mit der ökonomischen Seite der Dinge? Es gab viel Diskussion darüber, nicht wahr? Der Chef des russischen Direktinvestitionsfonds war da, nicht involviert in den Gesprächen, aber er war definitiv sehr nah dran.
Yes, definitely Russia is interested in lifting some of the sanctions in start of business as usual. Definitely they are interested in that. What that means for the democratic world is a very different question, which I guess the West needs to find an answer for.
And I mean, just finally with you, what is next for Zelensky on this front? Does he need to corral his European strategic partners a bit more? Where does he go next?
Er ist zurück in Kiew, wo er morgen das erste Face-to-Face-Meeting mit Keith Kellogg, dem neuen US-Repräsentanten, auf der Ukraine hat. Und hoffentlich bringt er für ihn, für die Ukraine, die Botschaft. Und er versucht auch, sich zu korralieren. Europe at large.
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Chapter 5: What is the humanitarian situation in Eastern Congo?
Chapter 6: Could we soon grow replacement teeth?
But three years on, with hundreds of thousands dead on both sides, the Russian leader now appears to have the upper hand after seemingly winning over Donald Trump. The first tangible sign of the new reality came in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, as the top Russian and American diplomats met in Riyadh. Our correspondent Tom Bateman was there.
Hier war die USA, der größte Einzelhändler und Armhändler der Ukraine, sitzend mit ihrem Freundeskrieg. Danach hat die US-Delegation, die von Mr. Rubio geführt wurde, die Diskussionen als aufgeregt beschrieben.
Die Amerikaner sagten, dass sie vier Prinzipien mit den Russen verabschiedeten, die Gespräche zwischen den Delegationen, die breiteren diplomatischen Verbindungen, die Teams ermöglichen, auf einem Weg zu arbeiten, um den Krieg in der Ukraine zu beenden, and then what the US called historic economic and investment opportunities with Russia. But what of any concessions being demanded of Moscow?
Mr Rubio wouldn't set any out to reporters after the meeting, saying only that it would be a matter for future talks. Mr Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, made clear European peacekeeping forces were out of the question.
We explained today that the appearance of armed forces from the same NATO countries, but under a different flag, under the flag of the European Union or under national flags, doesn't change anything in this regard. Of course this is unacceptable to us.
Pressed on why the US wasn't laying down conditions for Moscow in order to agree a durable peace, Mr Rubio said the two sides would only agree to ending the war on terms they were each happy with. But today's events have so far done little to allay the biggest fears in Ukraine, of being forced to accept and enter the war on Russia's terms, with the peace being carved up.
Ich weiß nicht, was ich zu denken habe.
Honestly, I don't know what to think, because Trump is very unpredictable. Essentially, as long as there are no clear actions or a specific demand for deadlines, I can't really form an opinion on this. I think that most likely certain territories will have to be conceded, at least for some time, to achieve peace.
I think the priority in our country right now is to save as many lives as possible. But I know that even if there is a ceasefire now, Russia will try to attack our country again. And we don't know what the consequences of that will be in the future.
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