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Fresh Air

Remembering The South African Playwright Who Defied Apartheid

13 Mar 2025

Description

Athol Fugard's plays, like Blood Knot and Master Harold and the Boys, were about the emotional and psychological consequences of Apartheid. He also formed an integrated theater company in the 1960s, in defiance of South African norms. The playwright, who died Saturday, spoke with Terry Gross in 1986. And we remember soul singer/songwriter Jerry Butler, who sang with Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions before going solo. Jazz historian Kevin Whitehead marks the centennial of the birth of Roy Haynes, one of the most in-demand drummers of the genre.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Transcription

Full Episode

0.429 - 16.394 Sam Brigger

Hey, Sam Sanders here with KCRW, personally inviting you to check out my new podcast. It's an entertainment show that tries to figure out what makes the culture tick and tell the stories behind creators we love. New episodes are out every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts.

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17.054 - 20.815 NPR Host

Listen to The Sam Sanders Show, part of the NPR Podcast Network.

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23.649 - 43.29 Terry Gross

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. As a playwright, actor, and director, Athol Fugard defied South Africa's apartheid system, and the government punished him for it. He died Saturday at the age of 92. We're going to listen back to the interview we recorded in 1986, eight years before the end of apartheid.

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44.111 - 63.863 Terry Gross

Fugard was a white South African who wrote about the emotional and psychological consequences of his country's white supremacist system. When Fugard co-starred in his 1961 play The Blood Knot with black actor Zakes Mukai, they became the first black and white actors in South African history to share a stage.

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64.603 - 86.751 Terry Gross

Soon after, Fugard was approached by a group of black actors seeking his help to start a company. Together, they formed the Serpent Players. The company was frequently harassed by the authorities. A few members were imprisoned. Fugard's reputation for defiance spread, and in 1967, the government revoked his passport. It was restored four years later.

87.611 - 110.786 Terry Gross

Fugard wrote more than 30 plays, including Master Harold and the Boys and Bozeman and Lena. He co-wrote the plays Sizwe Banzwe is Dead and The Island with the black South African actors John Connie and Winston and Shana. His plays have been staged in the US. Six of his plays were produced on Broadway. He won a Tony Award for Lifetime Achievement in 2011.

111.487 - 119.778 Terry Gross

When I spoke with Fugard in 1986, I asked him why he remained in South Africa, where he lived under the apartheid system he opposed.

120.484 - 149.041 Athol Fugard

I suppose it's a question of my continued existence as a writer. I just couldn't see myself writing about any other place or any other time. I have on occasions in the past described myself as a regional writer, not meaning to be falsely modest or anything like that, but a regional writer in the sense I think that Faulkner was a regional writer in America and my region is South Africa.

150.199 - 158.642 Terry Gross

Do you feel constrained there at all by limitations of what will be allowed to be performed on stage?

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