Episode 1: Reporter Zach Mack thinks his dad has gone all in on conspiracy theories, while his father thinks that Zach is the one being brainwashed. In 2024, after the latest round of circular arguments, they decided to try something new, an attempt to pull each other out of the spell each of them thinks the other is under. Can one family live in two realities?To listen to this series sponsor-free and get early access, sign up for Embedded+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What is the premise of 'Alternate Realities: A Strange Bet'?
It's called denying us freedom of speech. No. It's called denying us freedom of speech. It's misinformation. No.
Who gets the right to label it misinformation? These circular arguments never go anywhere. Nothing's ever resolved. So how do you reason with someone who's gone deep down the rabbit hole? And can you? A year ago, I decided to confront my father and tell him I thought he was being radicalized online. But as always, he didn't agree. But what he did next surprised me.
Dad texted me a photo of a sheet of paper where, in his barely legible cursive, he had written out a list of 10 predictions. 10 things that he was positive would all take place sometime in 2024, assuring me that when all of these things happened, I would see once and for all that he was right. At the bottom of the page was a challenge to a bet for $10,000.
And let me just say, Dad and I are not big gamblers, nor are we rich. 10K is easily more money than either of us has ever wagered in our entire lives. Looking over the list, it was filled with politically apocalyptic predictions. And I remember being some combination of perplexed, horrified, and weirdly amused. The bet seemed really over the top. But I also saw it as an opportunity.
Instead of just arguing until the end of time, we were actually going to settle this. And now we had a deadline. January 1st, 2025. And hopefully that'd give me enough time to change his mind, bring him back to reality a little bit. That is, before his beliefs tear the family apart. From NPR's Embedded, I'm Zach Mack, and this is Alternate Realities.
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Chapter 2: How did Zach's Dad get into conspiracy theories?
Looking back over his list about treason and martial law, I'm still surprised that this is what he wants to put his money on.
What happens if you're wrong? Just what I said. I will pay you $1,000 for each one of these 10 things that are wrong.
But I mean, I think the way you've laid it out here, there'll be a pretty clear case of, like, who's right and who's wrong.
Yeah. Yeah, I think it will be very black and white. And if you are wrong... Then you're $10,000 richer.
Yeah, but look, I'm not... This isn't just about the money, right? I would like to make some positive strides for our family.
Well, I think that once you see that I haven't been duped by AI and social media and the algorithms, I think you will gain a lot more respect for... who I am and how I think and how I've come to believe.
I do think for both of us, this is about respect. We each feel dismissed by the other and we're fighting to be heard. And I'm not going to lie, it's also about winning. Because at the end of the day, these predictions will either happen or they won't.
Right. But when they do happen, you're going to go, wow, that's amazing. How did he know that? 100%. If and when they do happen, I will definitely say, wow, that is amazing. The other thing I want to have you say after each one of these is that, wow, dad, you were right and I was wrong. Same goes for you then. Okay. Absolutely. All right. Deal. Happy to do it.
So this bet, it was always about the opportunity it presented, a chance to shift my father's perspective. I picture his beliefs like a giant cruise ship, and I'm just trying to nudge its trajectory a couple of millimeters, knowing that with enough time, even that slight adjustment will land the ship at a completely different destination.
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