In 2021, we set out to cover the case of Rhys Pocan, a 35-year-old Indigenous woman who was murdered in Wisconsin in the ‘80s. But while we were in the field, we uncovered a disturbing pattern of murders with similarities to Rhys’ that were just too blatant to ignore. So, we spent the next three years working with local and federal law enforcement to try and get to the bottom of it.Before you listen, make sure you’ve listened to WANTED: Justice for Rhys Pocan & MMIW Part 1!In Part 2, we look into cases of two other female dismemberment victims in Wisconsin with striking similarities to Rhys Pocan’s. Rhys’ own cousin Rae Tourtillot’s remains were found just two years before Rhys’ disappearance. And Julia Baez’s remains were found buried in plastic bags the year after. But without a statewide task force, investigators are slow to put things together.If you have any information about any of the cases below, please contact Det. Nathan Hatch at the Sheboygan County Sheriff’s Office at 920-459-3135, or email him at [email protected]. You can also reach out to us at [email protected]. Other Wisconsin cases to note:Jane Doe, 1982, Caledonia, Columbia CountyHelen Sebastian, 1983, Racine, Racine CountyEric Hansen, 1983, Petrifying Springs Park, Kenosha County,Jane Doe, 1984, Westby, Vernon CountyTerry Dolowy, 1985, LaCrosse, Vernon CountyRae Tourtillott, 1987, Menominee ReservationRhys Pocan, 1989, Sheboygan CountySusan Poupart, 1990, Price CountyJulia Baez, 1990, Brockway, Jackson CountyDoris Mcleod, 1991, Goose Lake Wildlife Preserve, Dane CountyJane Doe, 2002, Houlton, St. Croix CountyCharlee Pocan Russ has started a GoFundMe to raise money for solving her mother’s murder. If you would like to donate or learn more, please visit this link. And keep an eye on The Deck feed for Susan Poupart (7 of Spades, Wisconsin), or listen right now in the Fan Club! You can learn more about The Good segment and even submit a story of your own by visiting The Good page on our website! Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit: crimejunkiepodcast.com/wanted-justice-for-rhys-pocan-mmiw-part-2/Did you know you can listen to this episode ad-free? Join the Fan Club! Visit crimejunkie.app/library/ to view the current membership options and policies. Don’t miss out on all things Crime Junkie!Instagram: @crimejunkiepodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @CrimeJunkiePod | @audiochuckTikTok: @crimejunkiepodcastFacebook: /CrimeJunkiePodcast | /audiochuckllcCrime Junkie is hosted by Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat. Instagram: @ashleyflowers | @britprawatTwitter: @Ash_Flowers | @britprawatTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!
Chapter 1: What is the focus of this episode on Rhys Pocan and similar cases?
Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flower. And I'm Britt. And this is part two of our look into Reese Pocan's story. So if you haven't heard the first part, please go back and listen because we're picking up right where we left off. When our reporter, Emily, realizes that this case goes way beyond Reese,
And she discovers a disturbing pattern of dismemberments turning up all around Wisconsin. This episode will focus on two of those other victims and everything that we could find out about their cases from loved ones, detectives, tribal chiefs, coroners, and police reports. This is the story of Ray Tortolat and Julia Baez.
By searching through newspaper archives and public records databases, our reporter Emily started finding more dismemberment victims in Wisconsin. In the years surrounding Reese's murder, at least 12 people, 11 of them women, were found whose heads or hands had been cut off during or after their murders.
Now, a handful of these women are still unidentified, and most of the cases have never been solved. All in different jurisdictions? For the most part, yes, which we're thinking is maybe why no one has kind of looked at this holistically before. And like when you see this, we haven't come across something like this. Like who are you supposed to tell?
I mean, we have the most badass group of women here at Audio Check doing the absolute Lord's work. But like try calling up the FBI and saying that you have a podcast and there might be a serial killer. Right. Honestly, it's going to be a little easier because Crime Junkie actually is pretty well known now. We have a lot of law enforcement fans. Like, thanks, guys.
But other podcasts have made fools of themselves by calling the FBI and they end up becoming the butt of like internet jokes. So Emily tried reaching out to various FBI field offices in Wisconsin, but like only ever got connected with a PIO who then never even returned a call or an email.
But undeterred, she, you know, compiles everything that she's found into a document that she sends off to Detective Hatch, who trusts her. And in turn, he sends it to the FBI field office in Milwaukee. And here is what was in that document. Our list begins in 1982 when the partial remains of a Jane Doe are found in Caledonia, which is in southeast Wisconsin.
According to the Doe Project, they're still trying to identify her. But the woman was likely between 45 and 60 years old and had given birth at some point in her life. Then, in March of 1983, in Racine, which, by the way, is just 11 miles from Caledonia, a woman's arms, hands, and legs are found buried in a backyard. She's identified as 51-year-old Helen Sebastian.
I have truly become obsessed with Helen's case, and I hope to bring you a whole episode on her one of these days, but today's not that day. So seven months after that, in October of 1983, dismembered partial remains of a man are found in Petrifying Springs Park in Kenosha County, a mere 15 minutes south of where Helen's dismembered body was found.
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Chapter 2: How were the dismemberment cases in Wisconsin connected?
And of course, we know the extended family is also reckoning with the death of another relative.
And were they close? Like, I know cousins can mean, like, very different things for different families.
I know. We don't know exactly how close they were as cousins, but they definitely crossed paths on the Menominee Reservation where they grew up. Reese's daughter, Michelle, remembers seeing Ray perform at powwows or, like, traditional Native American culture celebrations. She performed as a dancer. And I know that Reese knew about Ray's murder,
because of a tip that Hatch found buried in Reese's case file. A tip in Reese's case file about Ray, and it is chilling. The tip is from a woman named Geraldine, or Jerry, one of Reese's friends from church. And when interviewed by police in 1990, Geraldine reveals that just two months before Reese went missing, Reese confided something in her. And here is Detective Nathan Hatch.
Reese had stated that she was scared and depressed, and when Geraldine questioned her, Reese indicated that Reese was in danger. Reese confided in Jerry that she was afraid that she would end up like her cousin Ray Tortellat. Reese had commented something to the effect that, he's going to cut off my head, he already killed my cousin.
Reese had supposedly made this individual really mad at her, and he swore he was going to do this to her.
He who? This is gonna eat you alive. She told Jerry a name, but Jerry couldn't remember the name.
You gotta be kidding me.
I wish.
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