Stephanie Moss
Appearances
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
So not a bad journey from a boy from... Walterboro.
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
Population of... 5,000. Oh my gosh. Okay. So Walterboro to Okinawa. Tell me about that.
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
What a very real experience. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to kind of educate us a little bit. Walk me through this idea of what is intellectual property.
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
So if you have a sales process that is common practice in your industry, that doesn't really fall under IP. That's right. But if you have a process that's unique to your firm or organization. Could be a trade secret.
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
Okay. I know right now it's kind of hot on the docket, this idea of getting rid of non-competes and non-solicitations.
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
So you don't typically hear IP being protected in non-solicits or non-competes. How is that a part of it or is it?
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
Andy, I'm Stephanie Moss. How are you?
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
I'm good. I'll ask that super open-ended question. Start at the beginning and tell me a little bit about you and your super interesting journey.
The Action Catalyst
The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)
Okay. I want to talk about the book, The Ethical Imperative, Leading with Conscious to Shape the Future of Business. Give me from your perspective kind of where this came from, what the intent.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Getting Congruent with Today's Market / Money Talks
Let your employer know you are happy. and you're proud to work there, but you've noticed you're incongruent and you want to try and get congruent to continue being happy.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Getting Congruent with Today's Market / Money Talks
Oftentimes, what most people think is, hey, I'm 20 to 25 percent less than my peers or recent hires. I need to go out and get a counteroffer. to make sure I get another offer from another organization, tell my current organization about it, and that's the only way that I'm going to get caught up.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Getting Congruent with Today's Market / Money Talks
And I have really been counseling a lot of folks that this really is not the most professional way to try and get congruent. In fact, the most effective way is actually to go to your current manager, let them know how happy you are, and that the fact that you enjoy what you do, you like representing who you work for, you know, is the reward for you. But
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Getting Congruent with Today's Market / Money Talks
you have noticed that you have become, because of that loyalty, incongruent with the market from a compensation standpoint. That is a much better approach versus threatening, backing them into a corner, saying, hey, if you don't match this, I'm going to leave. And quite frankly, let's face it, you are happy. You like where you're at.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Getting Congruent with Today's Market / Money Talks
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss, partner with Thinking Ahead Search Firm. Today, I wanna talk to you about recent experiences I've had working with folks in the marketplace who candidly were quite happy in their current situation But they had noticed because they had been with their current organization, their compensation had become incongruent with what the rest of the market was bearing.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Getting Congruent with Today's Market / Money Talks
People don't make moves for money, nor should they, unless they are grossly underpaid. So if you find yourself in a good situation, but you are incongruent with the market, don't go out and get another offer from an organization. That's a waste of your time. It's a waste of their time. And it puts your current employer on the defensive. Instead, have a sincere conversation.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - It's the Little Things That Count
Time and time and time again, The number one reason people leave is they don't feel appreciated. And let me assure you, this has nothing to do with money. There's a phrase that says, it's the little things that count. Let me assure you, it's the little things that count. It's the forgotten, oh, hey, I said I was going to do that, but then I forgot. Oops, sorry.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - It's the Little Things That Count
People don't do what they say they're going to do, but when you do, it gets noticed. The, hey, I noticed last week that you put in a little bit of extra effort to get this done in time. I really appreciate it. Is that a raise? No. Does it make them feel like, hey, my extra effort made a difference? Absolutely. Those little things build up over time and make a huge difference.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - It's the Little Things That Count
So if you're in a leadership role today and you're not sure, gosh, how do I know I've got a good team? How do I know I'm not going to be surprised by a resignation? Take a couple minutes and look around at your team. What have I done lately to show them how much I appreciate their efforts? What have I done today? What did I do last week? What did I do last month?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - It's the Little Things That Count
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss, and today I want to talk to you about one of the most basic principles of business, and that's how you treat your people. People are always asking me for, hey, why do you think such and such made a move? Or, hey, I've heard they're having some turnover issues over there. Or, gosh, I was really surprised by my last resignation. What do you think's going on?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - It's the Little Things That Count
And if you can't come up with three or four things, or even better yet, ask them. Hey. How do you know that you're really appreciated here? I'm just curious. I want to be a good leader. What have I done in the last year or so to show you that I really appreciate your efforts? If they stumble and can't come up with anything, you might want to keep my number handy.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Career Vaccine
But what we are in control of, our career vaccine is ourselves. If you know that you are good at what you do, And that most days of most weeks, you can get up and go do what you're supposed to do in the right way. That's your peace of mind all day, every day. By the way, this message was not sponsored by any pharmaceutical companies. Brought to you only by me, Stephanie Moss.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Career Vaccine
And it got me thinking, as you think about your career, what's your career vaccine? What's your career vaccine? Peace of mind. For many of us, we put it in the stability of the organization that we're working with. We put it in the stability of the leader that we work with.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Career Vaccine
We put it in our book of business, knowing that we have a certain relationship with our clients that we can count on and rely on year after year after year, no matter what organization that we're with. Whatever your career vaccine, your career peace of mind is, it actually really doesn't matter. But let me encourage you in this way.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Career Vaccine
The number one biggest peace of mind, really where we should put our heads down at night and be able to exhale and sleep, your real security should come from you. Not that you don't need other people or that circumstances don't have an impact or an effect, but let's be honest, if we learned anything, it's how little we really are in control of our world.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Career Vaccine
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. One of the things we've been hearing about is the idea that a lot of our challenges and our problems can go away with a fix. One of the biggest challenges was the pandemic. And one of our biggest proposed solutions was the vaccine. Now, when you start talking about vaccines, just like anything else, everybody has an opinion.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Today, I wanna talk to you about my absolute least favorite, worst ever interview question. I am so tired of hearing that hiring managers ask this question, so I'm gonna tell you it. I'm gonna tell you why it doesn't work. I'll give you some better suggestions and beg you, stop using this question. The question, are you ready?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
Walk me through that and then be able to ask or tell them, hey, you mentioned you were successful here. Okay, give me an example of how successful you were and where's the evidence to back that up. You tell me you're great with COIs. Great. Last year, how many new deals did you bring in? Where did they come from? How many COIs refer them to them? How many were cold calling?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
How many were from your current book of business? Hey, if you were to come on board, what would be your business plan in the first 90 days to make an immediate impact? Describe to me an environment in which you feel like you could really knock a cover off the ball. Do these new questions help?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
They certainly should, and they will get you quicker to where you need to be with that candidate to know, is this my next superstar? Okay, now, Not the worst interview question, but a close second. It's a runner up. Actually, not even a question. Tell me about yourself. Really? You want me to tell you about me? I'm five five. I weigh. Well, none of your business. I'm married.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
Oh, that's not quite what you were looking for. then stop asking that question. Instead, might I suggest a couple other thoughts, things that will actually get you information that you want and need to determine if this person is a good fit for your organization. Here's a couple of suggestions.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
Hey, tell me about your last accomplishment or an accomplishment that you have made in the last couple of years in your current role that you are really proud of. How did your current leadership team respond or recognize that accomplishment? In your next role, what are you hoping to accomplish? Why is that important to you?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
These are some questions that will get you probably better answers, more sincere answers, and better insight to the person that's sitting in front of you.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
You have got to stop asking, what are your strengths? And what are your weaknesses? Honestly, you can go back 50 years, find the first ever book on interviewing tips. And that's the number one question people know to prepare for. It is in every other interviewing book since then. Candidates know it. They know how to expect it. They've rehearsed answering it.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
And they're not going to give you what you really want to know. It's outdated and it's ineffective. Let's be honest. What you really want to know is, is this my next superstar? Is this next person going to be the next one on my team that's going to knock the cover off the ball? Because if they are, absolutely. What do you care what their strengths and weaknesses are? You don't.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
What you want to know, is this your superstar? So in order to figure that out, let me give you a couple of other better questions to ask. Here's a better question. What do you do that separates you from your peers? You've talked to me a little bit about some of your successes.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The WORST Interview Question...and A Runner-Up
What did you do differently from the rest of the folks on your last team that made you had those successes that they did not have? That would be a great question to ask. Another form of that is tell me about your competitive advantage. So what are you doing to differentiate yourself from your internal peers, your external competition?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Today I wanna talk to you about summertime. And for a lot of folks, one of the reasons why we look forward to summertime is because it's a slower time. I know for me personally, I have three kids. Our morning routine To get everybody up, everybody fed, out the door, on time, lunches packed, at the bus stop, pulling out of the driveway, whatever your case may be.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
So as you start thinking about summer being a slower time, let me encourage you to think about it just being a shift of time instead and really encourage you to look at your goals, your business agenda for the year. and say, hey, when it's time to slow down, you need to slow down. Go be with your people, spend the time, do what you need to do.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
But when it comes to business, summertime is actually a great time to run and really get ahead. My theme for this summer is summer fun, summer smart. Here's what I mean. It's summer. People have been working our butts off to get here. It is time for fun It is time for vacations. It is time to celebrate, enjoy.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
It's just such a neat time right now, which leads to the summer fun, the trips, the times together, the silly things, the fun things. However, with all that being said, I also have to remind myself that I need to be smart. Hey, it's summer. When my kids go outside to play, they need sunscreen. That's just being smart. Doesn't mean they can't enjoy themselves. It just means they need to be smart.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
Things like hydrate. Eat properly. Take ibuprofen before I go to bed if I need to. Limit my overconsumption in whatever form that might be for you. It's summer fun, no doubt, but it's also summer smart. So shifting gears a little bit, I want to talk to you a little bit about how to survive. a beach weekend with your colleagues. Couple of different things.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
You wanna go into a beach weekend with your colleagues very well prepared. You need to take a look at the weather, pack appropriately, try and get a layout of, hey, what meals are we eating out? What's the dress code? I mean, these are just basic fundamentals. You don't wanna be the jerk that shows up to the nice dinner that the boss is buying and a pair of flip-flops and a wife beater, right?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
At the same time, you're at the beach, things are a little more casual.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
you don't want to be showing up in a suit and tie to go you know put your feet in the sand and have a beer and a taco so these are just some basic things at the same time i would also recommend if you happen to work with a group of folks that are in shape they like to work out and maybe one of your favorite team members works out a lot and you work out a lot and the two of you guys say hey while we're down there let's make sure we work out together because that would be really fun a couple things i would recommend
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
Number one, don't get hammered the night before so that at the end of the workout, you're puking your guts out. It's just a thought. I don't know. If you do, however, just know that this colleague will walk away from your puking. They'll call back, make sure you're okay. And when you're done, they'll have some nice cold water for you. Sure hope this helps and have an awesome summer.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
It's a hustle from the second my feet hit the floor in the morning. So when summer comes, it's a welcome relief of whew. Okay, we don't have that race. But for so many of us in business, summer isn't a natural slowdown. It's just a shift of energy. I will tell you, oftentimes at work, I'm the busiest that I've ever been in the summer. Search is absolutely still happening.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
I know for a lot of bankers, their portfolios are going through renewal season. It's just a shift. So while there are certain aspects of summertime that absolutely can slow things down, One of my favorite slowdowns is just simply having light longer. When I get home at night, yeah, we've got to do all the normal things. We've got to, you know, have dinner, do whatever.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer Smarts
But because we've got light until 9 or 930 at night, there seems to be more time just to go sit outside, take walks, do all these things. But eight to five, mentally, I'm running often just as hard as I do every other time of the year.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Today, I want to talk to you about resignations. Recently, I was talking with one of my candidates. And she sent me a fictitious copy of her resignation letter. She was obviously very unhappy in her current situation. And although the letter was quite funny, it was obviously fake.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
It makes sense at this point for me to take it. Very simple. Thirdly, stay focused on the transition. Let your employer know that this isn't the right time or circumstances to consider a counteroffer. There are tons of articles out there and why counter offers are ineffective and ultimately don't serve you or your employer. But just communicate clearly. Hey, this decision is final.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
It's irreversible. Let's focus on my transition. What can I do between now and my last day? to ensure a smooth transition for you. Lastly, make sure you're keeping in touch with your new employer to make sure that there's a smooth transition on that way. Candidates, this is a challenging time.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
You need to make sure if you're not working with a recruiter, or even if you are, that you have a good support system with them. Make sure you're talking to them about any of the emotions that you're having. I know that sounds cheesy and girly, but you're going to have them. Make sure you have a very good objective sounding board.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
So as you go through that difficult time of resigning and saying goodbye, you have somebody in your corner reminding you why you're doing what you're doing. It'll help tremendously. I have a couple suggestions for hiring managers who are hiring and for those that are being resigned to, if that makes sense. Hiring managers, as you know, your folks are going to resign.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
You need to be teed up to make those calls of saying, hey, we know this is a tough time for you, but I wanted to call and remind you why we're so excited that you're joining us. I have even had clients say, hey, the day before you resign, let's go out to lunch. And the new hiring manager takes the almost new employee to lunch just to start for the two of them to have that emotional time.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
Again, if you're not sure you want to leave, this conversation isn't for you. You shouldn't even be attempting to resign. But when you know it's right for you, hopefully these suggestions will help and make it a little bit easier. And then thirdly, this is something that this candidate went to resign. The initial reaction of their boss was, hey, great, we'll miss you.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
But candidly, you probably just saved us a layoff. So wish you well, best of luck, you know, leave tomorrow at five, whatever. That was fine. That was a great reaction. However, there were a few other colleagues that didn't take it so well. And unfortunately, instead of wishing this person well,
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
they kind of got a little ugly and put some pressure on them of, hey, you'll never find anything better than what you've got here. What are you even thinking about? And it actually started to tarnish the relationship that they have had of working together for years to come.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
Now, luckily, once they realized the person really was leaving, they came through with shining colors and said, hey, you know what? I was just frustrated and upset that you were leaving. If this really is the right thing for you and your family, we're very excited. Let's continue our professional friendship. Anyway, the biggest message here is,
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
When you've been somewhere a long time, resigning is absolutely tough. And the more empathy we can have all the way around, the better it will serve us all.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
We had a good laugh over it and then transitioned talking about how important, even though she was very disgruntled, how important it was to still leave on the right note. It got me thinking and reminded me how important it is to make sure that when you do resign, you do it in a very clean manner.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
professional way and make sure you never earn a bridge you never know who you're going to interview with next or you're going to end up working for next so it's very important that you leave on the right note and do things the right way Anytime you have a resignation, let's face it, it's a breakup. You're leaving them.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
Even if you have good reason, it's going to hurt just like any breakup does, even if the timing is right. So here's a couple of thoughts and reminders to make sure that you have a good, clean resignation, a good, clean breakup. First of all, make sure you put it in writing. That's always important. Have a letter for you, your immediate boss, and somebody in HR.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - The Right Way to Resign
Another good reminder is keep it simple. A resignation is not the time to go into all the reasons why you left, why you are unhappy. Chances are you really weren't unhappy, but a better opportunity came along. So with the resignation at that time, just keep it simple. Hey, another opportunity has come across my plate that's going to be better for me and my family.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
Thirdly, as you're waiting, being polite, not talking too much, but as you're waiting for the plane to take off so you can snuggle up and go to sleep and they offer you a drink and you say, no, thank you. I don't drink what you just offered. Again, these are signs that usually shut people down. Lastly, when you sleep the entire flight, but then you're stuck on a tarmac for 30 minutes.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
So you wake up and you continue to banter. And it's obvious that your seatmate has been drinking the entire time. And they say, hey, why don't you come out with us? And you say, no, as I mentioned, I'm exhausted. I'm going to go home to my three kids and a husband. Thank you, but no thank you. And they go, oh, I was kind of hoping to see you out this weekend. Sure.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
In between the football games, the birthday parties. Yeah, I'm sure we'll run into each other. I'm sure. But even after all of that, if they don't get the hint, the last thing I recommend is asking them where they're staying. And when you find out that it's two blocks from your house, whatever you do, you do not offer to give them a ride to their house. It's just sound advice, folks.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
At this point, it should completely shut them down. They should have the message and be on their way to their fun weekend with their guy friends. However... If in case it does not shut them down completely, you know, hey, I get it. They're in town for a weekend. They're trying out their moves. They've got three or four days ahead of them. Want to see how friendly Nashville really is.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
If it doesn't and somehow you end up giving them a ride because their Airbnb is literally two blocks from your house. When you pull in and give them some very sound motherly advice of, hey, have fun. but make good choices. And their response is to lean over the console and try and kiss you. An appropriate stiff arm is all it'll take and then shoo them along their way.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
Again, I hope this counsel helps. And to the gentleman who sat next to me on the flight and obviously wasn't picking up on my cues, I want to say thank you. You've made me feel like I still got it.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
Very interesting to be downtown on a Saturday night now. This is also a message for some folks that might be coming on a plane to visit and they are maybe sitting next to somebody who is coming to town for one of those events. And here's some counsel on things that normally work should you not be in the frame of mind where you're looking to get picked up by your seatmate that should help.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
First of all, I highly recommend dressing appropriately. So, for example, if you're on a plane home from Baltimore and you were just at a bank conference, you're probably dressed very conservatively. A button-up shirt, a cardigan, some long pants. Again, this sends a very clear signal that I am not available, I'm not interested in being picked up or hit on. Point number one.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
Point number two, if you sit down and someone comes to sit in your row and you say, hey, you're welcome to sit there, but you better be quiet because I'm exhausted. I've been up since four o'clock this morning. I've been at a bank event all day long and all I want to do is sleep again. That sends out usually a very clear sign you are not open for business.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - How to NOT Get Picked Up Coming Home From a Work Conference
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss, partner with Thinking Ahead Search Firm. Today I want to talk to you a little actually about Nashville, Tennessee. And this is a message for our visitors if you ever come to Nashville. I don't know if many of you know, but Nashville has become quite the tourist destination over the last several years. specifically for bachelor and bachelorette parties.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
Statistically to date, still the most effective job search technique is getting hired by people who know you or by people who know you, who know you, seven degrees of separation kind of thing. So if you find yourself needing to look for new employment, make a list. What are your competing organizations? Who do you know there? Who can give you the warm introduction?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
Who can speak on behalf of what you're capable of doing? The absolute worst thing is having to submit a resume into the black hole of online jobs. People get so frustrated and there's a time and a place for that, but be smart. Use your network. And then thirdly, you need to own the follow-up process. For a lot of people, this makes them very uncomfortable.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
If you're in sales, this is part of who you are. You got this all day, every day. But for most of us, we're not. So you need to be the one that does the follow-up. You need to make sure that you're constantly doing the legwork. If somebody says, hey, I really enjoyed meeting with you. Let's follow up next week. All right, the ball's kind of in their court.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
But by the way, if it's Wednesday of the next week and you haven't heard anything back from them, you need to be the one that reaches back out. Nothing too aggressive, but hey. You mentioned you wanted to get back together. I wanted to honor that timeframe. Were you thinking about trying to do something this week or should we look for something next week?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
Same thing if they say they're gonna introduce you to somebody. Let a few days go by, but after three or four, if you haven't seen that introduction, follow up. Hey, I just wanted to follow up from our last conversation. I really appreciated your willingness to introduce me to dot, dot, dot. Here's my contact information.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
Feel free to forward it on or reply all and copy them on or whatever the case. You can use all kinds of different language. But the idea is you need to be the one owning the follow-up process. Hope this helps.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
It's giving them some freedom to go be with family, whatever the case may be. But it's also putting them on the offense where they actually have to go out and find their next job. So what I want to do is to give you three strategies if you find yourself having to go on the offense and find your next professional role, there are three things I want you to keep in mind.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
First and foremost, you need to be very well organized. Nothing reflects less on a candidate when they get a call from an organization and they say, hi, this is XYZ, I see you applied. And the candidate says, wait, what, who? I don't remember that role or whatever the case may be. It's a terrible reflection on the candidates.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
Same thing is if a recruiter might call you and you go, hey, you know, I've applied to everything and anything online. I have no idea where my resume is or what it's doing or so forth and so on. Again, if you're out of work, this is your new job. until you have another job. So you've got to be well organized. Second thing is you've absolutely got to use your network.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Out of Work?
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. With restructuring, downsizing, working on efficiencies, a lot of these activities are ultimately leading folks who under their own decision-making would not be out in the job market. By the way, some of these things are huge blessings. They are having an opportunity to be downsized with a tremendous severance. It's giving them a break.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss, and today I come to you with kind of a meh, but exciting message at the same time. The meh part? Summer is over. Labor Day has come and gone. I don't know for the most of you, for me, I actually told my kids this a couple weeks ago, I think... This has been the absolute best summer of my adult life. We just did some really cool things as a family. Work was fantastic.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
And we absolutely do. Strong finishes lead to our bonuses. They lead to how we feel going into the holidays when we actually get a break and get to spend time with our family and friends. But sometimes what we don't think about is how that can really lead to a strong start.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
In fact, some of my favorite conversations this time of the year is when people tell me, hey, I've already blown my goal out of the water. My focus right now is actually pushing some things off to next year. That's an exciting reason to keep your head in the game. regardless of what kind of year you've had. And I certainly hope it's been a great year.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
But when you start thinking about, hey, what I'm doing today is really setting me up for tomorrow, that's a great headspace as we think about winding down the year. I don't know about you, but my years always get off to a better start when I can come into the year refreshed, renewed, excited about what has been and what's to come.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
So remember, a good finish is a good finish, but it's also a good start.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
recently i was talking with one of my managers and his suggestion was to apply this in all things we do not just the big things so for example on a day-to-day basis finish strong your day maybe it didn't go the way you wanted but do something positive at the end of your day to make sure you at least feel good about that part of your day same thing about your week
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
I have a couple things checklist-wise that if I can get them done by Friday at 5, even if I got nothing else done the rest of the week, I can feel good because I at least got those things. Same thing on a quarterly basis. So while the bad news is summer is pretty much over, although for most of us down here in the South, we've got plenty of warm days left, but technically summer is over.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
It's time to get to work and make the most out of what's left.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
And at the same time, we figured out how to chill. Just have a great summer. But now it's time to get to work. Not that I didn't work all summer. But Labor Day is behind us. It's hustle time. For most of us, we've got about three, maybe three and a half months left.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
Whatever you were hoping for, wherever you're at, no matter how far ahead you are, there's an adage that says, no matter how you start, it's how you finish that'll matter. So if you want to feel good, regardless of the outcome, if you want to feel good, now's the time to hunker down. It's always a great time to talk about having a strong finish. Let's face it.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Summer is Over...Finish Strong
The most exciting time to watch any live event is at the end. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like a good first quarter. But if you can give me a nail biter that comes down to the wire in a fourth quarter, I'm on the edge of my seat. The same applies for life when it comes to work. This time of the year, most folks are thinking, hey, we've got to think about really finishing strong.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
I think if listeners get nothing else out of this podcast, what you just said is the grand slam. The conversations in the beginning set the stage. You can't do that on the back end. The trust, the collaboration, that's the difference maker. Because people really feel, and I love that word that you used earlier, ally. It's a word that doesn't get used often in business.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
I think people talk about colleagues or friends. but an ally is something very different. An ally to me is someone you go in the trenches with. You don't care if you like them or not. You don't care. It's not about, hey, are you going to be friends when it's all said and done or whatever, but it's, hey, we're on the same team for the greater good, whatever that greater good is.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Going in the trenches with people and they know they can trust you, they can count on you, and it just sets up for a different process than I would imagine they've ever experienced in working with a search firm. And I'd say with clients too. Do you mind if I shift gears a little bit? Not at all.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
I would love to hear in your 30 years, not quite, but almost years of search, what do you consider to be your superpower?
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Super meaningful right there. Those of y'all that are younger in the business, if you're listening in, learning how to work with your head, heart, and gut, that is the recruiter's secret sauce. And it's not a secret. We just told it to you. If you had to do it all over again, what would you do different?
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And I just want to comment on that term fearless. I don't love that word fearless because I think it implies that you don't have fear. But I think when you call somebody fearless is what it really means is they don't let fear stop them. That's a quality I would absolutely share about you is it's not that I don't think you have fear. You just don't let it stop you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
What a reflection on professional maturity. Again, I would imagine for a lot of folks younger in their career, that's been a hard line to find. But you're right. I'm on this kick right now with a quote by Brene Brown, which is clear as kind. If I can help, I'll do everything I can. If I can't, I will lovingly let you know and do everything I can to get you in the right direction. Super.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Absolutely. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Kay Linder, you did awesome. Excellent. Thanks, Kay. Have a great day. Thank you, guys.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
So out of my curiosity, when you are either working with a client for the first time or candidates for the first time, how do you evaluate what you need to focus on to be helpful, helping them figure out what they really need? So from where you sit, I think that's a very different approach than a lot of recruiters take. A lot of recruiters are order takers. Hey, go find me this.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And then we jump to work. Sounds like your approach is very different.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
So tell us a little bit of your background with Thinking Ahead and then love to launch into talking about what's on your mind. Fantastic.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Wow. Sounds like right out of the gate. It's a very consultative approach.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
So how do you balance that approach with the for profit side of our business? Great question.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Welcome to the Talent Trade. I am your host, Stephanie Moss, partner with Thinking Ahead Executive Search. Today, I am super excited to have one of the absolute best and brightest that Thinking Ahead has certainly ever had and probably the industry as a whole. Please give a very warm welcome to Kay Linder. It's my pleasure, Stephanie.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And then I have to imagine because of this meaningful level of rapport, it gives you insights into candidates that really change your conversations with clients.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Let's talk about that just for a second in regards to your process. And I'm thinking specifically for recruiters that might be listening in going, wow, that sounds as complex as heart surgery. Break it down. What does this look like in terms of a process?
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Okay. So Kate, obviously you have had a long and dedicated career as an executive recruiter. Tell me a little bit more about why the recruitment profession?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Today I want to talk to you about one of my biggest pet peeves with hiring authorities. I want to talk to my hiring managers. Oftentimes hiring managers are actually a team of folks. It can be the person the position is actually going to report to. It could also be their boss. It could also be key folks within HR. And here's what I want to share with you.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
And by the way, you spent the last three or four weeks being courted by two of your competitors. If you go three, four weeks and then deliver a no, imagine that blow. Because for most of us to buy that kind of time before making a decision, we've probably been giving them little hooks along the way to make them seem like they still have a chance.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
So three, four weeks go by and then we get a big fat no. It just doesn't work. I literally was just on the phone this morning with a client who I thought they had a finalist and was calling to follow up on that. And they said, no, we lost them. I said, well, gosh, what happened?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
Well, they were interviewing with a couple other places and I guess we dragged our heels and they went on and took another offer. And my client was a little flabbergasted. They said, oh, I don't know how that happened. And then here is what is most critical about what he said. He said, I don't even know if they were who we absolutely wanted to hire, but now we'll definitely never know.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
And it just reminded me and brought me back to that idea of time kills all deals. Even if you're not sure the person you're talking to is the one, keep good candidates engaged. Whether we like to admit it or not, we are absolutely in a competitive environment for the best people. And if we drag our heels, it sends a message that we're not interested and they will emotionally detach and move on.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
So here, let me make a suggestion. We know when it comes to hiring key talent, time is of the essence. Before you jump into the market, stop, get your ducks in a row, button up your process. That way, when you do get in front of the right unicorn, it can be smooth, easy, and significantly increase your chance of getting that talent unicorn to say yes. So hiring teams, please be mindful.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
You guys know for the most part, I adore you. If I'm going to work with you, I already have a whole list of reasons why I'm excited to work with you. However, there is an old adage out there. We've all heard it if you've ever done anything even remotely related to sales in any way, shape, or form. The adage is time kills all deals. This is the same in a recruiting process.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
Now, of course, as soon as I say that, there's going to be the one person says, well, there's this one time. Okay, great. Super. I'm so happy for you and your exceptions. I'm not talking about the exceptions. I'm talking about the general rule. Here are our realities. If you are in a hiring mode, good talent is incredibly hard to find, recruit, and lure away. It just is.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Time Kills All Deals
There's all kinds of factors that could make a quote unquote deal fall apart, but you cannot sit on your hands for weeks on end without making a decision, good or bad. It doesn't matter. Even if the decision is, hey, I know it took me four weeks, but now we'd like to make you an offer. Psychologically, that unicorn has talked themselves out of why you're the right fit.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
So that's my message to you today is in the midst of all the poo, even as hard as it might be, try and remember there's got to be a pony in here somewhere.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
And one of the things we were together, we were actually celebrating, but what we really got on the topic was instead of spending our time talking about the difficulties of the year, what we decided to talk about was despite the challenges, what have been your blessings?
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
And as we went around the table and every couple had an opportunity to share, it was so neat to hear all the different things that people could share that were blessings to them. And it got me thinking about a story. And I'm not going to share all the details because I'm not a great storyteller. But the fundamentals are this. Long time ago, there were a set of twins. One was incredibly optimistic.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
One was incredibly pessimistic. Their parents were baffled. How could they be so different? They were twins. They took him to a psychiatrist or a psychologist or whatever the case may be. They put the extreme pessimist kid in a room full of toys, told him he could play with anything, he could have anything.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
They took the other kid that was an optimist by nature, put him in a room full of horse manure and said, hey, this is your room. Go have at it. And of course, the kid who was the pessimist, you know, sucked his thumb, stayed in the corner, said there are too many toys. He couldn't decide. He got completely overwhelmed by the situation and kind of shut down.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
Well, after an hour or so, they went and checked on the optimist kid. And basically, as they go in the room, they see the kid, hands and knees, just digging like crazy through all this horse manure. And the psychologist says, what are you doing? And the kid says, With all this poo in here, there's bound to be a pony somewhere.
The Talent Trade
Talent Trade Tidbit - Find the Pony
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Today I want to tell you about a really neat conversation I was having last week over dinner with some colleagues.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
That's awesome. And thank you so much for joining us, sharing some of your wisdom. Really appreciate your time and energy here. Thank you so much, Steph. It's always so great to chat with you.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
She broke our 20 plus year top first year record and has been a top producer every year since then in the legal recruiting space. Super happy to have you with us. And Jen, I'll let you tell us a little bit more about you and your niche, and then we'll dive into our topic. Thank you so much, Steph.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
Super cool. I'm going to go back and ask a couple questions along the way that I think might be super helpful. I know a lot of folks get pushback from internal talent acquisition folks about working directly with a hiring manager.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
And I would imagine, especially in your niche with attorneys, billing by the hour, what's some of the language or what are some of the ways that you're able to kind of break through that internal stiff farm to really get the time and the attention of the decision makers?
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
And then when you do that, do you ever get that proverbial slap on the wrist saying, hey, I told you not to communicate with them. And if so, how do you handle that?
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
Hello, and welcome to the Talent Trade. I am your host, Stephanie Moss, partner with Thinking Ahead Executive Search. Today, I am super jazzed to have one of the best of the best in the business with us today. Jen White joined our firm three years ago. She came out of the gates swinging.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
Absolutely. And then going back to something else you said earlier about, you know, identifying the kind of companies that you want to work with. You know, it's one thing when you've been in a niche for a while and you know, reputations of organizations, you know, reputations.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
But when you're newer, how do you determine, you know, hey, what are some key identifiers I'm going to look for when taking a new search or looking for a new partnership?
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
We're super. Super thankful to have you. So today, Jen, my understanding is you are going to lead us through a little bit of a discussion as it relates to partnership versus vendor, all that stuff in the legal recruiting business.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
Very cool. Super helpful. Have you ever kind of said, hey, I've done everything I could, try to leave it the best way you can, and then after a period of time, come back to work with them again? Definitely.
The Talent Trade
Becoming a Legal Eagle
Anything else we have not talked about that you think might be helpful for the good of our listeners?
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss, partner with Thinking Ahead Search, and welcome to the Talent Tree. Today, I wanna talk to you a little bit about interviewing and today's climate. Interviewing today is dramatically different than it has ever been. So interviewing today, it's super wonky. Couple things though that make it great.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
It's definitely different, but let me assure you, it's still very effective. Now, here's some very basic interview etiquette. Super simple and yet it's amazing to me how often folks forget these basic things. And by the way, this is etiquette for both hiring managers and folks being interviewed. Now, let me be clear. I'm not a career counselor. I'm not a career coach. I am an executive recruiter.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
I get paid to bring the right people to the right organizations at the right time. That is my job. However, a big part of that is working with folks because most of the folks that I work with don't interview all the time. It's to coach, train, and teach them how to execute an effective interview. So here they are, six simple things to remember. First and foremost, be on time.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Of course, the right answer is be there early, but be there on time. It is just simply a sign and a show of respect. Number two, be well-dressed. Now look, if you're interviewing for a job that it would be super weird for you to be in a suit, then don't wear a suit. But you know what well-dressed looks like. Whether we like it or not, first impressions make a difference.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
So you got to be well-dressed. Number three, be prepared. Show that you've done some homework on the company and who you're going to be talking with. You have to be prepared. You just do. And the way that you prepare is you go through the background information you need on who you're going to meet with the company, the position. Educate yourself first.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
And then the way you show the interviewer that you're prepared is by forming strategic and thoughtful questions around the research that you've done prior to being there. Another way to be prepared is knowing answers to common interview questions. Let's face it, most interviews, absolutely, you may get a curveball here and there, but
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
But most of the time, we kind of know what we're going to be asked. So have you thought through a clear, concise way to answer those questions? Number four, ask thoughtful questions. Not just the standard interview questions. And again, this is for candidates and for clients. Ask good, thoughtful questions. Five, be clear with your interest. If you are interested in learning more, be clear.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Hi, I'm interested in learning more. Thank you for your time. I'd like to learn more. Simple as that. If you're not interested, just as simple, thank you for your time. You've given me a lot to think about. And then lastly, close for the next step. Hey, thank you so much for your time. I am absolutely interested in learning more. What's the next step? Where do we go from here? Close.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Number one, because so many of the interviews are happening either via phone call or Zoom call or something else, the appetite for hiring managers to spend time with a potential candidate has gone way up. They don't have to drive 45 minutes there. They don't have to commit to being there for an hour and a half, then drive another 45 minutes back.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
In some ways, interviewing is kind of like dating. There's some psychology around it that mirrors those two things. People want to hire people that want the job. Don't get me wrong. There's a time and a place to play hard to get. If you're my daughter, it's going to be for a very long time. Otherwise, we need to make sure that as the interview comes to a close,
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
that you take the lead and express your interests directly and clearly. Hey, Tom, thank you so much for your time today. I have certainly learned a lot in talking with you. And based on what you shared with me were your critical needs in your next hire, I hope I've outlined how I could meet those needs. I absolutely look forward to the next step in the process. By the way, what would that be?
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
That's a super easy, super direct, super clear way to close an interview. But maybe above all, listen, listen. Most interviewers will tell you what they want, how they want it, what it's going to take if you listen to their answers to your thoughtful, strategic questions. Now, look, I will be honest. I haven't been on a job interview in literally years.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
I hope I never have to go on one ever again. And I know if I do, I'm going to be nervous. Even doing this as a professional career for almost 20 years, I'd be nervous. I totally get it. When we're nervous, it's hard for us to be good listeners, but you've got to find a way to get there anyway. When you really can listen, feel free to take notes.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
But when you are very tuned in to what the other person is saying, nine times out of 10, it's going to give you the answers that you need to help decide if you're a right fit. And it's also going to give you the ammunition you need to convince that person that you're the right fit. These are all very basic things that everyone should know.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
And yet, let's be honest, we don't interview full-time for a living, so they're easy to forget. Now, on occasion, things can go off the rails.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Every now and then we hear from candidates who go into a situation where they're so excited it almost filters into nervousness, or the same way, the clients are so excited about the candidate that they're getting ready to meet that their nervousness comes out instead of excitement. And sometimes it can happen where the interview gets a little sidetracked.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
So here's what you do in that situation to pull it back on the rails. A couple of thoughts, and these are critically important. You have to remember, the folks you're talking with, they're just human too. I've actually had candidates say, and this was brilliant, the hiring manager loved it, hang on, hiring manager, let me slow down for a second.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
I'm very excited to meet with you, and I'm very excited of this opportunity, and I think some of my excitement has made me a little nervous. Can we start over? It's that simple. He just said, hey, I'm nervous because I'm excited. Can we start over? The hiring manager loved it. He loved that he could own that, admit it, and they did. Needless to say, fast forward, dot, dot, dot, they got the job.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
It's literally, all right, give me two minutes to dial up Zoom. We're on the call. 30, 45 minutes later, I hang up. I can move on to the next thing. So the appetite has gone up considerably.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
They're there. They're happy. Clients. I actually had this happen where I had a client who was so excited to meet with a banker. They met for lunch. and he actually had several martinis over lunch because he was so nervous and excited to be meeting with this person.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Thankfully, after about the two-thirds of the way through the second one, I think their conscience kicked in and they realized, oh, this is probably not the impression I want to be making, and they did something very similar. Hey, you know what? Let me push my drink to the side. Obviously, we're very excited that you're interested in our organization. Let me start over on a couple different things.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
It's very simple. It's very easy. When you do just kind of open it up and say, hey, let's just start over. It really lets the other person's guard down. And even though some people say like, oh, you can never take away a first impression. I don't necessarily buy into that. I think it can be difficult to overcome a first impression and people will look for evidence.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
to enforce that first impression. But when you bring humanity to it, most people let their guard down. And instead of looking for reasons to enforce the first impression, they will actually look for reasons to see you as you truly want to be represented. Now so far, we've only been talking about a first interview, but what if you get another? Let's talk about some key steps in a second interview.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
This is of course what takes place after you've had your initial interview. Now you're coming back for a second one. Usually it's a little bit deeper dive. It can be a little bit less formal because it's kind of like your second date. So here are a couple things that are critical during that time. First and foremost,
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
Another good thing is, again, even though the Zoom and some of that isn't as good as the face-to-face, if you do it right and with a lot of patience and practice, it can really help you get to know an organization at a slightly different level. Watch how well they're adapting to all these changes.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
If you are meeting with anybody you have not already met with, even though it's your second interview, it's their first interview. So you need to be very smart and mindful of treating it like it's a first interview. They don't know you. They've obviously or probably heard good things. They know you're interested and they are interested in you. But be smart.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
You need to make a very strong first impression with them. And I think it's also okay to ask some of the same questions you asked in the first interview. Hey, I was talking with such and such last week. He mentioned this. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
This is actually going to serve you incredibly well because you'll be able to see, hey, is there consistency in the organization with their answers or are there some discrepancies to which you'd want to find out for sure? Now, let's say you're actually meeting with the same person and it truly is a second interview.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
While usually this can be a little bit more of an informal meeting, this is where oftentimes I see candidates get a little bit too relaxed too soon. I'll use a dating analogy. Second date, you guys had a good first date, second date comes up. You want to be smart. You still want to play the part to a certain degree, if you will.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
The second date isn't where you reveal, oh, hey, by the way, I'm so glad we're meeting again. Here's all my baggage. It's just not going to work. You want to be smart, but again, it is the time when you can kind of be a little bit more relaxed. What is critical is that you ask good questions that show you heard what was said in the first one and you're following up.
The Talent Trade
Incredible Interviewing
It's a great indicator of how they handle change, the way they embrace it, and what kind of technologies they're ultimately interested in investing in when it's necessary. Again, today's environment is different. Zoom is different. I think by now everybody's got at least five to eight outfits that from the waist up look professional. Waist down, shorts, yoga pants, whatever it wants to be.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
You can change the verbiage, but you accomplish the same thing. Hey, Pam, Stephanie Moss, sticking ahead executive search. I don't know that you're expecting my call right now. In fact, most folks that call are not actively calling. looking to make a move, but I specialize in your space. We know a lot of folks.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I am working on a really cool opportunity, but I have no idea timing wise, if it would make sense for you. The purpose of my call is truly just to get to know you professionally. And then if the timing makes sense or shoot, even if you're just curious, I'm happy to share what's what's happening in my market. You have five to eight minutes, super simple, super easy.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
That's handling it on the front end. Now, let's say that you're representing a challenging organization. Then I say something to the effect of, hey, I'd like to share some details about the organization and the opportunity I'm representing. Before I dive in, though, can I get you just to bear with me for a second? I'm going to share with you the name of the organization.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And I know that they've had some recent challenges. So before you shut me down, would you be willing to hear a little bit more about what they've been through? And I can give you some insight as to what those challenges have been and what they're doing to deal with them. Because this really is a neat opportunity for the right person.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I'm going to say about maybe 15 years ago, I got introduced to a different way, a different mentality, if you will, thought process of working with conversation resistance. And that's what I want to share today. The second part of today is going to focus on not the how we handle this, but rather when do we handle this?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
So again, if I say, hey, I'm representing ABC and they go, oh yeah, I've heard their challenge. Oh, totally. Are you open minded enough to let me share with you a little bit of the backstory there? There's a reason why we have the phrase curiosity killed the cat. It's because cats, but also humans are very curious by nature.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Even if they're not interested in the opportunity, they want to know what's going on. It's part of their world. It's in their professional niche. They will at least listen. And by the way, that's one of the services we provide to our clients is we, by doing the recruiting the way we do with lots and lots and lots of phone calls, we get to push the client's story out there.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And that's one of the reasons why we tell folks they should work with us. It's really difficult to push a story out into the market through an email, through LinkedIn postings. People don't read that much and they don't care. But when you engage and say, yeah, you know, if you'd be willing, I can kind of explain what's been going on over there and what they're doing to deal with it.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And again, even if they're not interested, most people are curious enough to want to hear what's going on. And again, this now extends the conversation and the opportunity still may not be right for them, but they may be more comfortable telling you what would be important to them. They may be more comfortable now giving a referral, whatever the case may be. So we handle it before it comes up.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
The second is when it comes up. So, for example, on the recruiting side, it may be, let's say that we don't do a good job prefacing the I'm not looking. So we know that if you approach somebody and you don't handle on the front end and they say, hey, Stephanie, thanks so much for calling, but I'm not really looking right now. Again, we talked earlier about these half sentences.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Oftentimes the back half of that sentence. is what we don't give people time to think or definitely not to say. And oftentimes what they're really trying to say is I'm not really interested unless the opportunity would be significantly better than the one I currently have. So again, we want to practice patience.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
When an objection comes up, pause, give them an opportunity to see if they'll keep talking. Or in that scenario, you have to deal with it before you can continue the conversation. Super easy way to do that is, oh, absolutely, Erin, most of the folks I talk to are not actively looking when I call them. I could only be so lucky.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
However, most of them are least willing to have a conversation, even if it's just out of sheer curiosity. And again, since we didn't really know each other, I thought we could just spend a couple minutes professionally getting to know each other. I'm happy to share a few details and we'll just take it from there. That cool? Another thing might be, again, we'll go back to the commute.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
That's a big deal in my market. So, hey, there's no way I consider an opportunity at XYZ. That's an hour, 15 minute commute day in and day out. Okay, well, I'm going to have a hard time getting that person to engage unless I can address that. And again, it's just conversational resistance. They're not saying absolutely no. What they're saying is based on the information I have, probably not.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
So then you can offer up, hey, walk me through where are you commuting from? What would that look like for you? Get a few more details and then just ask, hey, if they had a three days a week hybrid where you could be home three days a week or only go to the office, would that make a difference at all for you? And again, we're just expanding the conversation.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
We're getting people in an environment where they can relax and we can just have conversation. We are in a service business and that's what we set out to do is to serve our clients and our candidates. This is how we do it, by putting them in a place where they're comfortable talking to us about their professional challenges so we can potentially serve them, whether it's today or down the road.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
So handling objections. By the way, please notice, There's nothing about my style that suggests bulldozing or super aggressive. Never do I say, well, let me tell you why that shouldn't be a concern. This opportunity is so freaking good that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They are so close minded at that point. They're going to hear anything you say. They're going to be offended.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
We here at Thinking Ahead have been using this pretty religiously, and it's made a significant impact, not only in the quality of the work that we do and how we serve others, but I think it's also really helped us have a healthier mindset when it comes to conversation resistance. So let's dive in. First and foremost, you've got to get in the right mentality.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And the next time you call, they're going to let it go to voicemail. Then the third time handling objections is never. This again takes some really keen listening and really intentional hearing with folks. A lot of folks that we talk with are verbal processors and they're especially going to be because we're on the phone with them. So we're setting up our relationship through the phone.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I don't want long, lengthy emails trying to communicate. That needs to be through a conversation. And when you get on the phone and somebody is verbally processing their thoughts, again, hitting that mute button and being patient, as they're talking through their interests and processing information, Let them talk. Oftentimes they will talk through some resistance or concerns or an objection.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And it's something that they can just handle on their own. But we're so anxious, we'll jump in and we actually make it a much bigger deal than it ever actually was. Or we take away the opportunity for them to solve that on their own. And to realize it really wasn't a big deal. So instead, what we do is we wait for them to bring it up again.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And oftentimes, if it's something they can solve on their own, they won't ever bring it up again. And we never have to deal with it. We just were an incredibly patient and respectful listener. and let them process through. Now, if they do bring it up a second time, this is a great opportunity for us to jump in with the laces.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Hey, Kim, that's the second time that you have mentioned that being of concern. Are you okay if we pause for a second and talk a little bit more about that? It seems like that might be really giving you some heartburn. And then you jump into the laces and you can help them determine, is this a stop sign or is this a speed bump?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
We just need to slow down, find a solution, and then keep the process going. Again, works incredibly well on both the candidate and the client side. We here at Thinking Ahead are huge believers in scripts. This can all be scripted out so that you can practice it ad nauseum so it becomes just a part of how you talk with folks.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And that's really the name of our game is just being willing to have really open, honest conversations trusting conversations with folks so that we can serve them. And remember good recruiters are good listeners. Great recruiters are phenomenal listeners.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
When it comes to handling conversation resistance, what we have to understand is this is really an opportunity for us to put others at ease, put our listening caps on and be sophisticated enough to navigate a conversation in a way that is productive.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
let me take the mystery out of all of this first and foremost you have probably heard me say good recruiters are good listeners great recruiters are phenomenal listeners and this is one of the first opportunities we have to really show what incredible listeners that we can be this is often where trust and true rapport not hey how's the weather how are the kids but very sincere rapport can be built
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And that is when we come up against conversational resistance, how we handle it. And the key is handling it through the science of listening. There are five points to being a phenomenal listener when it comes to handling conversation resistance. It spells out the acronym CONVERSATION. Laces. L-A-C-E-S. I'm going to break it down and then we'll give some real world examples. Laces is listen.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I cannot emphasize that enough. Listen, listen, listen. And understand what we are listening for. is not just what people say, but we understand people tend to speak in half sentences. And we are often, especially as recruiters, you know, I love us, but it's true.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
We are often so anxious to talk or to communicate what's rattling around in our brain that when people get the first half of a sentence out, we immediately jump in. And where a great recruiter shines is they allow for a pause to see if the person who's speaking will jump in with the back half of their statement. Second part of LACES is acknowledge. This is also like validation.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Third part is the C and that's clarify. E is expand and S is seek agreement. This is a little bit counterintuitive to a natural way of listening. So we are going to have to practice this for it to become natural to us, intuitive to us. I strongly encourage you to write out a script that you can follow along until it becomes old hat, second nature.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
So let's go back and start again at this listening. Again, the idea here, good recruiters are good listeners. Great recruiters are phenomenal listeners. We're listening for the back half of what people say. We're listening for what people don't say. And a couple of thoughts on the art, if you will, of listening is being able. patient listener.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Again, we as recruiters love to jump in and start talking and start sharing. And especially if you came from that old school mentality where you jump in and want to immediately annihilate a quote unquote objection, or as soon as you hear resistance, you want to squash it. Instead, I want to strongly encourage you to give it space, to let it fit.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I personally haven't found a term that I'm completely in love with yet, even though I don't have the perfect term. The idea today is we are going to talk about when you get in a mode where you are approaching either candidates or prospects for potential business, How do we handle pushback?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I'm a big fan of hitting the mute button so that you have to bring a ton of intention and consciousness before you start speaking. Or even better, you start speaking, but you're on mute so they don't hear you. So then they start speaking again. Patient listening just needs to be practiced with discipline. And my favorite way to do that is through the mute button.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Once we listen, then we want to acknowledge. And this is where we really are validating what we think we heard and validating to the speaker that we are really trying to hear them. Easy things are when you're in the midst of conversation. Hey, John, I really appreciate a couple of things that you just shared with me.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I have some questions, but before we move on, can I just repeat back what I think I heard? And please correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed something or if I'm not quite getting it. What I think I just heard you say was dot, dot, dot. And then you repeat back. Now, you may repeat back in summary, but that's certainly fine. And you repeat it back. And one of two things is going to happen.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
You're going to hear John go, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. Or he's going to say, well, I'm not sure. And then he's going to keep talking and he is going to naturally move us into the next step, which is the clarifying step. Now, if he goes, yes, thank you. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. You go, awesome. Okay, I just wanted to make sure we're tracking.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And then you guide into clarify. And a way that you do that is phrases such as, hey, now that I think I understand, let me ask you a couple clarifying questions. Or can you tell me more about this? Or you mentioned the commute could be an issue with this opportunity. Can you tell me more about that? Or if you're in a business development call,
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Hey, you mentioned that you might have a need for your team in the next six months, but you weren't sure you were going to need a search firm to help fill that. Help me understand what's happening. Where's your bench strength coming from? Walk me through that. Or, you know, hey, you've been super successful hiring on your own their last couple of hires. Clarify. Help me understand.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
What's your secret sauce in this incredible talent race? We are hearing folks are really struggling. What are you doing well? Help me understand. And clarifying what you're hearing, things like, help me understand, can you tell me more about that, etc. And again, keep in mind, this is when we hear objections, resistance, etc. So then we want them to put a little bit more meat on the bone for us.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Then we can come in and expand the conversation further. Expansion can look like, hey, John, so again, if I'm hearing you right, you might have some talent needs down the road.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
However, your system to recruit on your own, work through internal referrals, work through your internal talent acquisition team has really provided you with the level of talent that you've needed to fill your back couple positions, right? And they go, yes. They go, question, if that wouldn't work, What would you do? Or if that wasn't working, what would that look like?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And you just try to expand and you're not necessarily providing solutions, but you're asking them to guide the conversation on what's a plan B and how would they come up with a solution to their problem? Same thing if you're in a recruiting mode. Hey, the commute would be an issue.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I will say that having spent the last 24 years plus some years in college in sales, objections were always something that mentally were like, they fell into one of two categories. I am very non-confrontational. Now, if you know me, that might surprise some of y'all. I've learned through the years how to confront when needed, but much prefer setting boundaries so I never have to confront.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Right now, you've got a commute that is 30 minutes and it gives you the freedom to drop the kids off at daycare in the morning and your partner picks them up in the afternoon and it works out great. If you take this new job, you're going to have to rearrange because the commute's in an opposite direction, dot, dot, dot, dot. We don't offer to solve that challenge for them.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Instead, you say, OK, tell me more about this commute. How would you see if this really was the right fit for you right now? How would you handle that? And you get them to talk through some things. If it's about challenges of an organization. I was talking with somebody earlier today and they really like the hiring manager.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
However, they know the organization is really challenged and they're talking through like, gosh, I would love to go work for this person. I think they're awesome. But the organization as a whole is really challenged for numerous reasons. So again, they haven't asked for help. My help.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I'm just guiding a conversation and they haven't told me they don't want the job, but these are reasons they may not take it. So how would you handle that? Tell me when you think about that. You love to hire your manager, but you're concerned about the organization. How do you process that? And just listen, listen, listen. Then we can start talking about seeking agreement.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And this is where if we've done our part, we are often invited, which is best case scenario, invited to share our thoughts.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
and suggestions and an invitation often sounds like i don't know stephanie i mean you know my wife could take me in the morning i could leave early and just go in the other direction and fight the traffic going back i don't know i mean do you think the client would let me come in 15 minutes late every day so i could do that do you think they let me work from home and that i don't know stephanie what do you think or hey what have folks done in the past but anytime they turn it around and start asking you for your input that's the invitation if we don't get an invitation
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
we can ask for it. Hey, John, I can see you're really struggling with this. May I offer up a couple of suggestions that I've seen folks similar in your situation do? May I offer up a couple of thoughts? If you're in a biz dev call, hey, it really sounds like you've had great success in the past on your own. However,
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
If you needed to do a search and you didn't find the talent within 60 to 90 days, that would put you in a little bit of a compromise scenario. May I offer a suggestion for how we could handle that? And by the way, a simple suggestion would be, let me call you in 45 days. Let me just see where you're at. How would that sound?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Welcome to today's Talent Trade. Today, I am going to talk about one of my all-time favorite topics. Today's topic is the idea of handling objections, although I don't love the word objections. In fact, I've heard other things, recruiting resistance, pushback, or whatever the case may be.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Would you be willing to take my call in 45 days for me to see how you're doing? God willing, you're doing great. You just don't need me right now. No problem. No foul. We'll talk again in the future. But most of the time they go, yeah, that would be great. And now you have an agreement on where we go, what we do next. Go back to the recruiting scenario.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Hey, let me give you a couple things to think about. You offer some suggestions, and then you set a follow-up call. Hey, I know I've given you a couple things to think about. Before we move forward, let me have you noodle through that. Let's connect again tomorrow morning or tomorrow afternoon, and let's talk through really what makes sense, if anything, in terms of a next step.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
This is how we work the LACES model. Again, keep in mind it is based on very active, intentional, and patient listening. This is how we start handling conversation resistance. And by the way, if you've been in the search business and made more than five phone calls, you know unless you're getting five voicemails in any given conversation, There is going to be some resistance.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
One of the things, whether you're five years or five minutes in recruiting, I encourage you to do is script out what are your most common objections. If you're recruiting and your most common objection is, hey, I'm just not looking right now. What's a good response for that? How do we get folks to relax and still want to talk to us?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
We here at Thinking Ahead take such a long-term approach to how we do search that Even if they're not currently looking to make a move, they're still, from my perspective, and I believe there's tremendous value in talking with me for another eight to 10 minutes. You just never know in this wonky world what's going to happen. So great.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
So in sales, I typically find people have one of two mentalities when it comes to objections. They either want to bulldoze them and shut them down, annihilate them. They just have this really aggressive approach. Or they're more like me where they kind of want to pretend like they don't exist because we get super uncomfortable when we think we're facing some resistance in a conversation.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
If you're not looking right now, most of the people I talk to aren't. No problem. Here we still spend, I promise, no more than eight to 10 minutes just getting to know each other professionally. That way we know how to stay in touch for the future. And if anything happens, we know each other and we're comfortable working together. Are you okay with that?
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
In my entire career, I have only had two people ever ask me to never call them again. And by the way, one of them, I now talk to on a regular basis because after about five years, they reached out to me and said, okay, I got to be talking to you. Sorry, I was dense. Of course, I was very forgiving. But I'll never forget because it's not very many people.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
Most folks may say, hey, I don't have the time right now, but I'd welcome. Let's set up a time. But again, what we're trying to do is to put people at ease and continue the conversation. Now, with that being said, let's talk about the when. When do we handle objections? There are three key times when we handle objections. The first time or the first option is before they even come up.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
The second time is after it gets mentioned. And then the third time is never. And we'll talk about that too. So let's start with this.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
If you know on a regular basis that you're going to get certain objections in a recruiting mode, if you know that you're representing an organization whose reputation has recently been challenged, or if you know the position's in an undesirable location, or if you know the hiring manager is a pill to work for, or there's always something. No place is perfect. No opportunity is perfect.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
But it doesn't usually take us very long to figure out why somebody right off the bat might have some concern. It could also just be general, like they don't work with search firms or we don't have the budget to pay or I don't have a need. I don't need a firm right now. I don't need to talk to you. These are common objections that we know we're going to get.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
So let's try handling them on the front end. One of my favorite ways to do that is in business development calls. It's just to come right out of the gates. When I'm talking to a decision maker, whether they're in HR or talent acquisition or they're hiring on the line or for the department, I like just to open with that. And again, this is assuming it's a pretty cold call.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And I'll say something like, hey, Tom, this is Stephanie Moss with Thinking Ahead Executive Search. Let me just right out of the gates. You and I have never spoken and you probably weren't anticipating a search firm call right this minute. Let me share with you who I am and why I'm calling. And you can let me know if I caught you with just a couple of minutes. And then they usually go, okay.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And I'll say, I work with a search firm, specialized commercial banking, commercial finance, specific to your market. I cannot imagine, Tom, that today was my lucky day and I called you and you're ready to give me a search. Instead, the reason why I wanted to call is we work a lot in the same space. I think we know a lot of the same folks.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
And I just simply wanted to do a professional introduction. If he responds with, hey, Stephanie, thanks for calling. I don't have a need. I know he didn't hear anything I just said. Because I basically just said, I'm not calling to see if you have a need. And if he wasn't listening to me, then I need to go back. Oh, yeah, absolutely, Tom. As I said, I'm not calling to get a search.
The Talent Trade
Overcoming Objection
I really just want to call and do a professional introduction. We're in the same space. Your world is my world. And based on who we know and the markets we serve, I thought it made sense for us to at least know each other. And you go from there. That's handling an objection on the front end. Same thing if you're cold calling somebody about an opportunity.
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
Even though we're certainly not perfect, and America, as we all know and see in the media every single day, has plenty of challenges, it is still an amazing place to live, to work, and to play. And I am extremely thankful for those who are willing to sacrifice not just their lives, but their time away from the ones that they love to make sure we have the freedoms that we do.
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
So today, I especially want to honor all of those who have ever been in, are still in, work with, whatever the case may be as it comes to our military. For me personally, you are a huge reason why I think America is great. So thank you. Thank you very much. I want to say thank you to you. I certainly appreciate you letting me be in your world. It allows me to create an amazing life for my family.
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
So thank you. I hope you gather. I hope you celebrate. I hope you drink cold beer if that's your thing. I hope you eat a hot dog if you like hot dogs. Most importantly, I hope you spend it with the ones you love and celebrate, honor, and remember how we got here. Happy 4th of July, be safe, be smart, and be well.
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
And it always brings up really interesting and fun emotions for me. I have to be honest. I'm incredibly proud to live in America. What I'm proud of? is when we see injustices, we fight them. When we see wrongs, we work hard to make them better. No place is perfect. We all know this.
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
Hi, this is Stephanie Moss. Today I want to share with you my 4th of July message. The 4th of July is one of my absolute favorites. I love everything about it. It's the victory of the underdog. It's parties and celebrations without gifts. Hot dogs, hamburgers, cold beer, love it, baseball, all the things that I think make America great.
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
But I'm incredibly thankful for the example that has been set for me to remember it's always the right time to do the right thing. It's the 4th of July. Think about everything that we conquered, everything that we worked through, blood, sweat, and tears. If someone said, hey, how would you define a great America?
The Talent Trade
Happy 4th of July from The Talent Trade!
One of the things that was very difficult for me not to think about in regards to what makes our country great are the men and the women and their families that serve us in the military. I am once again reminded of all the sacrifice others have made for the freedoms that we get to enjoy every single day.
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
down super complicated, but good. Okay. So you have been in this niche, you rule the roost. Tell us, what do you do different than other recruiters in your space, other recruiters, period? How do you stand out from the crowd?
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
So folks, a couple of key takeaways here. Treat your humans like humans. Use technology to give you an edge and get to those humans faster and recruiting in a niche that you have a passion for. It is a difference maker and it sounds like you have definitely found your people too. Thank you.
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
Jessica, what I'd love to do is turn it over to you, do a little bit more of an introduction of yourself and your niche. And then we'll talk about how you as a recruiter in that space stand out from the crowd. Great.
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
It sounds like one of your cornerstones for standing apart from the crowd is how you treat people it's about them not about you you do follow through you do what you say you're going to do there's consistency sounds like you bring a lot of empathy to your practice and just have made a practice of treating people well
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
And that definitely makes you stand out. Now, what I think is super fascinating about you is you have this high human touch relational approach. And yet you become one of the firm's kind of gurus, innovators of this technological approach to doing what you do.
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
Welcome to the Talent Trade. I am your host, Stephanie Moss, partner with Thinking Ahead Executive Search. Today, I am super excited to have one of Thinking Ahead's greats from the life sciences practice with us, Jessica Gurley. Welcome, Jessica. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Yay. So Jessica recruits in our life sciences practice, a life changing niche.
The Talent Trade
Treat Your Humans Like Humans
Dude, that's awesome. I really feel like you bring this yin and yang of being incredibly focused on the human, the individual. And yet at the same time, what we just heard was a tremendous amount of relying on technology for efficiencies and to get to folks you wouldn't otherwise get to, to get to the humans.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Wow. So now let's talk for just a second about the client debrief. Again, I think this is a part of it that's like a no brainer, but because so many people just take it for granted, it doesn't end up adding anything to the process. So walk us through your client debrief.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And, you know, it's funny, too, because through the years, the folks that we represent, both on the client side and the candidate side, they're not professional interviewers.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So I think this is an area where in terms of prepping and debriefing them, we have a huge opportunity to make a difference because oftentimes people are incredible what they do, but they don't know how to advocate for themselves. They don't, you know, hey, it's been five years since I interviewed last or whatever. I'm usually the one doing the interviewing.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Candidly listening to you talk, two huge takeaways. Number one, your candidates have got to feel like you are a huge ally and advocate for them. Again, to our point earlier, most folks interviewing is not what they do for a living.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So getting into a situation where you're really preparing them, and I love what you said about the authenticity, you're not preparing them to be a quote unquote candidate. good interviewer, but rather preparing them to put their best foot forward to maximize the time that they spend with folks, knowing that they're covering, you know, thoughts, questions, concerns.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Yeah. Anytime you have to have a meaningful conversation, a prep would be super helpful. That's incredible. And then on the client side, the attention to detail that you provide has got to give them tremendous confidence when it's time for them to make a decision.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
I think it's a huge advantage for working with a boutique firm versus, and again, everybody has the right to earn a living however they choose and different models fit different people.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
But at thinking ahead, being a boutique firm versus a resume broker or a volume shop, this is an area that we really have an opportunity to make a significant impact, even to your point on the folks who don't get the job.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
So I think this is a super valuable topic. So jump right in, walk us through your philosophy a little bit, and then just walk us through how you do what you do.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Thank you so much for your willingness to share this with our listeners. I'm going to encourage if anybody has any additional thoughts or questions or wants to see some of the documentation that Heather sends out, I know she's incredibly approachable. You can find her on LinkedIn, reach out. You can find her through our website, thinkingahead.com. Thank the listeners for being with us.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Can we just stop there for a second? Because I want to just spend a minute on the value that you think this brings from a holistic perspective. This was something I was taught very early on in my search career at Thinking Ahead was to prep the clients. And yet, as I've been out networking with other recruiters, attending recruiter events, I've
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
This is a topic that I'm constantly surprised at how many folks don't do this. So I'd love to hear from your perspective, kind of why you're dogged about making this a part of your process.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Do you ever get pushback from clients? How do you set it up with the clients that this is going to be a part of what you do?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Super cool. And then just for those of us that maybe want to try this for the first time, help alleviate some fear for us. If you do get pushback saying, hey, we're good. We don't need that. Thanks. I've held interviews before. How do you handle clients that maybe don't buy in right away or don't respond positively to your assumption of, hey, we're going to do a client prep here?
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And if I heard you right, it sounds like the way you position it is really that this is in their best interest. But I even sometimes throw in that language of like from a legal standpoint, I want to set this up to protect you. But again, the kudos to you is setting it up in a way that you don't get a lot of pushback. Okay, so then you get them on there. You're on your schedule.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Well, welcome. We're super excited to have you here. And another thing that I'm super excited about is kind of your topic. I remember many years ago learning from kind of one of Thinking Ahead's gurus and him saying at one point that at the end of the day, if a search is meant to come together, it will with or without us.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
Hello and welcome to the Talent Trade. This is Stephanie Moss with Thinking Ahead Executive Search. Super excited to be here today with one of our rock stars from the nonprofit team, Heather Campbell. Heather, welcome. Thank you. Go ahead and tell us a little bit about you and anything you think our listeners would want to know.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
And he shared that to kind of take the pressure off, especially because when he shared it with me, quite frankly, I was rather new to the practice.
The Talent Trade
Perfect Prep
But at the same time, he also said, but hey, when you have opportunity to earn your keep in a search, kind of take it serious and make sure that you really are, if you're going to be a part of it, make sure you really are earning your keep as a facilitator of that process. And that's something I think that we're going to talk a lot about today with you.