Phoebe Judge
Appearances
Criminal
The Mirage
Support for criminal comes from better help. That back-to-school feeling can come at any age. I know a lot of people love it. It's not my favorite feeling. I like summer. But the fall is a good time to take stock of where you are and where you'd like to be. Therapy can help. If you're thinking of starting, you might try BetterHelp.
Criminal
The Mirage
Hi, it's Phoebe. Today we're bringing you a story about a bar in my hometown of Chicago. It was called the Mirage Tavern. And even though it sold drinks and had regulars, it was a front. But probably not the kind you're imagining. Our friends at the radio show and podcast Snap Judgment talked with some of the people who ran the bar back in 2018 in an episode they called Night at the Mirage.
Criminal
The Mirage
Support for Criminal comes from Apple Podcasts. Each month, Apple Podcasts highlights one series worth your attention, and they call these series essentials. This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home.
Criminal
The Mirage
His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family. Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. We're going back on tour this November to Austin, Tucson, Boulder, Portland, Detroit, Madison, Northampton, and Atlanta.
Criminal
The Mirage
If you've never seen a Criminal Live show before, it's not like a live taping of an interview. It's a real show. Nine brand new stories, specially chosen because they're fun to share in a room full of people, with music, photos, videos, and animations. We can't wait. You can find out more information at thisiscriminal.com slash live. See you soon.
Criminal
The Mirage
It's entirely online and designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if you don't like them, it's very easy to switch therapists and try someone new at any time for no additional charge. Rediscover your curiosity with BetterHelp.
Criminal
The Mirage
The 25-part series that the Chicago Sun-Times ran, called The Mirage, became a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in local special reporting. The Pulitzer jury said the paper had shown extraordinary commitment in terms of cost and legal risk to reveal widespread abuses by public officials.
Criminal
The Mirage
But in the end, the Pulitzer board refused to give them the prize because the reporting had been based in deception. Pam Zekman and Zay Smith wrote a book together in 1979, also called The Mirage. Two years after Zay Smith spoke with Snap Judgment, he died of lung cancer. He'd been a reporter for more than 40 years. Special thanks to the team at Snap Judgment.
Criminal
The Mirage
Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
Criminal
The Mirage
And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll join our membership program, Criminal Plus. Once you sign up, you can listen to criminal episodes without any ads. And you'll get bonus episodes with me and criminal co-creator Laurence Ford, too. To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus.
Criminal
The Mirage
We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram at criminal underscore podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
The Mirage
Visit betterhelp.com slash criminal today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash criminal. We're going back on tour this November to Austin, Tucson, Boulder, Portland, Detroit, Madison, Northampton, and Atlanta. If you've never seen a Criminal Live show before, it's not like a live taping of an interview. It's a real show.
Criminal
The Mirage
We'll be right back. Support for Criminal comes from Mint Mobile. Sometimes large phone companies promise one price, but the bill you receive tells quite a different and more expensive story. Mint Mobile is trying to take a different approach. When they say you'll pay $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan, they mean it.
Criminal
The Mirage
Nine brand new stories, specially chosen because they're fun to share in a room full of people, with music, photos, videos, and animations. We can't wait. You can find out more information at thisiscriminal.com slash live. See you soon.
Criminal
The Mirage
All Mint Mobile plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even keep your own phone and your same phone number. One of our friends gave Mint Mobile a try and said it was incredibly easy to make the switch and that his service is exactly the same as it was for much, much cheaper.
Criminal
The Mirage
To get this new customer offer and your new three-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash phoebe. That's mintmobile.com slash phoebe. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash phoebe. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower, above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan.
Criminal
The Mirage
Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. Cement Mobile for details. Support for Criminal comes from Quince. Now is the time to think about sweaters. Quince has a lot of very nice, affordable sweaters that cost 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands. They have a new organic cotton fisherman boatneck sweater that I've been wearing every day.
Criminal
The Mirage
It's oversized and doesn't pill, and it's simple and well-made. I also like their cashmere t-shirts. They have cashmere sweaters from $50, pants for every occasion, even washable silk button downs. And it's not just clothes. I also like their bedding. They have three different weights of down comforter, lightweight, all season, and ultra warm.
Criminal
The Mirage
You can stay warm this fall with some new high-quality items from Quince. Make switching seasons a breeze with Quince's high-quality closet essentials. Go to quince.com slash criminal for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash criminal to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash criminal.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Support for Criminal comes from BetterHelp. Fall isn't my favorite time of year. I like summer. And when fall comes around, the days are getting shorter, vacations are behind us, and there's a sort of back-to-school anxiety in the air. If you haven't been feeling like yourself, you could consider a session with a licensed therapist.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
But Mamie says after the hearing, they still felt sure that the land, the 13 waterfront acres where Lai Curtis and Melvin lived, was still theirs. But then, about three years later, in 1982, they received a trespassing notice. The family was told that they didn't own that land anymore. Shedrick did.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
During the hearing that had been described as chaotic, Shedrick's lawyer looked at the rights of the surviving 11 children of Mitchell Reels, and he concluded that Shedrick was the owner of the waterfront property.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
According to the family's former lawyer, Claude Wheatley III, one of Mitchell's sons, Calvin, had given verbal authorization for Claude to sign over the 13 acres to Shedrick, and Calvin died shortly after. Mamie says she doesn't think her uncle Calvin would have done that.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Claude Wheatley III said that Mitchell's heirs received notice of the decision, but Mamie's family said they weren't notified and didn't find out until years later. By then, it was too late to appeal the decision.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
This is Kim Doohan, Mamie's niece. She didn't grow up on Silver Dollar Road, but visited often as a kid. When did you first become aware about what was going on with this land?
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
She says a lot of Black families in eastern North Carolina that had owned land on the water had lost it.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Now they were being told they didn't have access to it anymore. And then Shedrick sold the 13 acres of the family land to a developer. Melvin and Lycurtus lived on the part of the land that was going to be sold off. What were they supposed to do?
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
This is Mamie Reels Ellison. Her mother's family, the Reels family, has owned land on the coast of North Carolina since 1911, when Mamie's great-grandfather purchased 65 acres. What was it like growing, you know, in the summer here, being a kid here?
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Not far from his house, Melvin had built a small club, which he called Fantasy Island.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
For a while, Melvin kept fishing like normal and kept inviting friends and family over to his club. He didn't want to leave, and it didn't seem like the developers were going to start any construction. Here's his brother, Lai Curtis.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
We visited Melvin, Lai, Curtis, Mamie, and their family at their mother Gertrude's home on Silver Dollar Road. When we got there, Melvin showed us around the land. And turning around, so the rest of the property, is it all, the rest of the 65 acres, is it all in here?
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Hurricane Floyd hit the North Carolina coast in 1999, more than ten years after Melvin and Ly Curtis' land was sold. They were still living on it. After the hurricane, Melvin and Ly Curtis and their brothers built their mother a new house on her land. That's where we spoke with everyone. Five years after Floyd, in 2004, Melvin and Ly Curtis learned that there was a court order.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
They had to vacate the land. They also had to tear down their houses themselves so the land would be ready for the developers. The developer Shedrick had sold it to had hired Claude Wheatley III to finally enforce the eviction, the same lawyer who'd originally represented the Reals family as they tried to protect the family land.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
We contacted Claude Wheatley III for this story, and he declined to comment. How did it feel when you were told that you were trespassing on your own land?
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
At first, Lai Curtis thought maybe he could try to move his house, to move it back further into his family's land. But his mother, Gertrude, told him not to. She said, that's yours.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
The Reals family tried again to get the courts to reverse the decision that gave the land to Shedrick, but nothing worked. Kim Duhan told a reporter, That land was never his to sell. We're angry at the courts. We feel like we own the land. Melvin and Lycurtus stayed put, ignoring the court order. And then, one morning, an explosion woke Melvin up. He said he'd never heard anything like it.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
His shrimping boat, named Nancy J., was sinking. He reported it to the sheriff, but they didn't ever find out what had happened. The whole thing made Melvin even more nervous. He said he'd wake up in the middle of the night feeling anxious about someone being outside his house. Sometimes he'd take a flashlight outside and shine it around. It was hard to eat. He says he lost a lot of weight.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Mamie remembers Lai Curtis was anxious too, even if he didn't talk about it. Sometimes she would see him awake early in the morning, walking up and down Silver Dollar Road. In early 2011, a hearing was scheduled. Here's Mamie.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Their attorney warned them that Melvin and Lai Curtis could be put in jail for civil contempt for not obeying the court. Kim Doohan remembers Melvin came to visit with her before the hearing.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, and suited to you and your schedule. Visit BetterHelp.com slash criminal today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash criminal. Support for Criminal comes from Apple Podcasts. Each month, Apple Podcasts highlights one series worth your attention, and they call these series essentials.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
The hearing took place in Beaufort, North Carolina, in March of 2011. By this time, Melvin was 64. My Curtis was 53. Kim says they thought they'd get an opportunity to present their case in front of the judge, but instead, the judge said he was sending them to jail. Kim says it felt like a punch in the gut.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
She remembers they didn't even really get a chance to say goodbye before Melvin and Lycurtus were led away. Melvin made eye contact with her and mouthed, Remember what I told you. The bailiff only had one pair of handcuffs. They didn't usually need them in civil court. So one side of the handcuffs went around Melvin's wrist and the other went around Lycurtus'.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
What did you think when they said you're going to jail? Were you surprised? I was, because I didn't think they could do it. A judge can hold someone in contempt for their actions in the courtroom, after an outburst, for example, or for actions outside of court, like refusing to obey court orders. In North Carolina, the most common situation is someone has refused to pay child support.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Sometimes journalists have been held in contempt for refusing to reveal their sources. Sometimes the person held in contempt just has to pay a fine. Sometimes they spend a short amount of time in jail. It isn't like being charged with a crime. A judge can just announce that they're holding someone in contempt, and the punishment can happen immediately. It can happen without a trial.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
So they were put in jail because at the hearing they were trying to say, no, we're not leaving this, this is where we live. We're not leaving land. And because Melvin and like Curtis refused to say, we're going to be, we're going to leave, they were held in contempt of court and put in jail.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
They expected to be in jail for 90 days. They were there for eight years. Next time, the rest of the Reels family story. Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Special thanks to Ruth Robertson. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. For more on the Reels family story, you can read Lizzie Presser's article. Their family bought land one generation after slavery. The Reels brothers spent eight years in jail for refusing to leave it. We'll have a link in the show notes.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll join our new membership program, Criminal+. Once you sign up, you can listen to Criminal episodes without any ads, and you'll get bonus episodes with me and Criminal co-creator Lauren Spohr, too. You'll also get to come to special virtual live events with our team.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Our next one is coming up on October 30th. We're playing Criminal Trivia. To learn more and sign up, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus. We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram and TikTok at criminal underscore podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Mimi Reels still lives on her family's land, surrounded by dozens of family members living on Silver Dollar Road, the road that runs along the Reels' property.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Mamie is the youngest of nine siblings. She was closest in age to her brother-like Curtis. Their mother had ten siblings. Many of them lived on Silver Dollar Road.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Mamie says at the heart of her family was her grandfather, Mitchell Reels.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
And then, when Mamie was about 10 years old, her grandfather got sick. Her mother, Gertrude, took him to C-level hospital. He had cancer.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Mamie Reals' grandfather, Mitchell, died in October 1970. He was buried in a cemetery on the Reals family land, right next to Reals Chapel. Mamie says people have been buried there since the 1800s. The 65 acres on the North Carolina coast had originally belonged to Mamie's great-grandfather, Elijah Reals. He was born in 1866, and his family had been enslaved.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
He was able to purchase the land in 1911 when he was 45. He lost it when he couldn't keep up with the taxes, but his son Mitchell bought it back from the county in the 1940s. And Mitchell never wanted the family to lose it again.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Very soon, I get to do my favorite thing. Go on tour and meet so many of you. This month, Criminal is coming to Austin, Tucson, Boulder, Portland, Oregon, Detroit, Madison, Northampton, and Atlanta. If you didn't get to come and see our 10-year anniversary show earlier this year, this is your last chance.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
But because Mitchell Reels didn't have a will, the land became something known as Ayers' property.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Ayers' property dates back to Reconstruction and Jim Crow. It's something that was especially common among black families, who weren't always able to access the legal system to make legally binding wills, or who didn't want to. Mimi says her grandfather didn't trust the courts.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
With Ayers' property, when someone dies without a will, any land they own goes to their descendants, who then jointly own the land. But the property isn't cut up and given in chunks to each descendant. Instead, each of them gets a percentage in all of it, like owning shares in a business.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
And the property title often remains in the original owner's name, making it hard for descendants to leverage it. It's hard to apply for a loan. And when there is a dispute, it's hard to hold on to it. The U.S. Department of Agriculture calls Ayers' property the leading cause of Black involuntary land loss. In the 20th century, Black farmers all over the country lost over 90% of their land.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Today, more than a third of Black-owned land in the South is Ayers' property, including the Reals family land. We'll be right back. Support for Criminal comes from Quince. I think one of the nicest things you can do for yourself is to update your bedding. Quince makes it easy. You can get new pillows, a new comforter, or a ribbed cotton coverlet for much less than you'd pay elsewhere.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Quince bedding, like their clothes, is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. I ordered their 100% cotton luxury organic sateen bedding bundle, which comes with a duvet cover, two shams, a fitted sheet, a flat sheet, and two pillowcases. I picked it after reading a lot of reviews and seeing how many people said these are the best sheets they've ever had.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Turn up the luxury when you turn in with Quince. Go to quince.com slash phoebe to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash phoebe for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash phoebe Support for Criminal comes from Apple Podcasts. Each month, Apple Podcasts highlights one series worth your attention, and they call these series essentials.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. After Mitchell Reels died in 1970, his daughter, Gertrude Reels, Mamie's mother, was able to get a judge to put it in writing. The surviving 11 children or descendants of children of Mitchell Reels are the owners of the lands exclusive of any other claim of anyone. Mamie Reels was 11 when her grandfather died.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
By the time she graduated from high school, some of her older siblings had already moved into their own homes on Silver Dollar Road. Mamie's brother, like Curtis, lived in a trailer next door, and her brother, Melvin, built a house right by the water. Melvin bought a boat and made his money fishing and shrimping.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Around this time, Mamie remembers her grandfather's brother, Shedrick Reels, started coming to town. Mamie didn't really know him. He lived in New Jersey.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
You'll get to hear seven brand new stories, most of which will probably make you laugh. I'll even try to come and say hi at the merch table. Get your tickets while they last at thisiscriminal.com slash live.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
In the legal document Mamie's mother had secured from the court, the land was only for Mitchell's children and grandchildren, not his siblings. But Shedrick didn't agree with that.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
In 1978, he claimed he owned a chunk of land on Silver Dollar Road, around 13 acres, right by the water, the most valuable part of the land, and the part of the land where Mamie's brothers, like Curtis and Melvin, lived. Shedrick claimed that he'd had the deed to the 13 acres since 1950, which Gertrude and her children didn't believe.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Mitchell, Mimi's grandfather, had the deed for the full 65 acres, including the waterfront.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
Mamie was in her late teens by this time and remembers helping her mother and father figure out what to do.
Criminal
The Family Land, Part 1
There was a court hearing about Shedrick's claims. Shredrick was using something called the Torrens Act, where all you need to do is prove to a lawyer that you own the land, and the lawyer then reports it to the court. The family's lawyer, Claude Wheatley III, later described the hearing as chaotic.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
That basically means the ingredients listed on the bottle are accurate, so you know what you're putting into your body. Ritual's Essential for Women 18 Plus is a multivitamin you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com slash criminal. Start Ritual or add Essential for Women 18 Plus to your subscription today. That's ritual.com slash criminal for 25% off.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Support for Criminal comes from Quince. Quince makes a very beautiful Mongolian cashmere crewneck sweater. It comes in more than a dozen colors, the length is perfect, it doesn't pill, is very soft, and I just got another one in burgundy for Christmas. I already have the heather gray, and I wear it all the time.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
This sweater has more than 14,000 reviews from happy people saying things like, this is my go-to sweater, and love the fit, color, and texture, and mostly the price. It costs $50. Quince's whole collection of essentials come in 50% to 80% less than similar brands.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
If you like the sweater as much as I do, you could get yourself the matching hat or the gloves or buy the whole set for someone as a very fancy gift that you will have paid a lot less for than they'd guess. You can get Cozy and Quince's high-quality wardrobe essentials. Go to quince.com slash criminal for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash criminal to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash criminal.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And then he started kind of panicking, I think.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
In September last year, Ashley Klass was renovating her 100-year-old home and pregnant with her third child. Her oldest, Sailor, had just turned three.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Ashley says at the time, Sailor was obsessed with the movie Monsters, Inc.,
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
It had only been about 30 minutes, but the envelope wasn't on the counter. The money was all over the floor in small, wet pieces. And Carrie, he yelled for you.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
But Saylor kept telling them she was sure that there were monsters in her closet. And she kept getting scared at night.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
It didn't work. Sailor started sleeping with Ashley and her husband in their room.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Did you at any point kind of think to yourself, well, okay, maybe it's not monsters, but this is a really old house.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And then around the end of October, she stopped talking about the monsters.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Ashley had her baby in mid-February. And then, a couple of weeks later, Sailor started to say there were monsters again.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I mean, were you kind of thinking, you know what, I'm exhausted. I have this brand new baby. There are no monsters. I might be at the end of my rope on this one with the monsters in the room.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And then, on the first nice spring day of the year, Ashley remembers that she and her husband spent the day outside with the kids.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Ashley called the pest control company, and they came out and said it was honeybees. They wouldn't intervene because honeybees are endangered. So after a lot of calls, Ashley eventually found a beekeeper who would come over and have a look.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Ashley wasn't home at the time, but her husband called her and put her on speakerphone while the beekeeper headed towards Sailor's room.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Their dog Cecil, a 100-pound golden doodle.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And did you immediately think, oh my God, we were giving this kid a fake spray bottle?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
He also told them that the reason Sailor had stopped hearing them during the winter was because the bees were dormant during those months. And they started getting ready to pollinate again right around the time Sailor said the monsters were back. What did he do next after you found out where the bees were?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The beekeeper started scooping up the bees and putting them into a box with mesh panels. And Ashley and her husband went to pick Sailor up from preschool. They told her what had happened on the way home.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Oh, yeah, we're talking about bees. Do you remember when you heard sounds in your room? Mm-hmm. What did it sound like? Did it sound like monsters?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
It sounds like bees. Yeah, well, you were right. I guess it did sound like bees. Well, Sailor, thanks for talking. I like bees.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I'm glad you like bees, Sailor. You were close to a lot of bees for a long time, so I bet you're going to like bees for the rest of your life. Yes. Yes. Earlier this year, a rumor started going around that there was a small black bear hanging around the road near my house. I was in a place where there weren't really any black bears, and I was intrigued. Could it possibly be?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I started worrying about my new dog, Eight, going outside. She was only seven months old. I knew she was big, like 80 pounds big, and strong, but not strong enough to take on a black bear. She isn't much of a fighter, except when I'm trying to take the millionth sock that she's stolen out of her mouth. My father calls her Socks. I started being extra careful on our walks.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I steered clear of some of the trails in the woods near streams. I have no idea if black bears like streams, but I figured that's where I would hang out. Then one day, I was walking eight up our road, and a woman yelled out, there's the bear. I panicked. I was looking everywhere.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And then I realized that the woman was pointing at eight, who was happily wagging her tail, oblivious to anything wrong in the world. When we got home from our walk that day, I told everyone I'd seen the bear. How long have you been interested in reptiles?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Patrick McKnight works with reptiles. How many reptiles do you own today?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
What is the difference between a turtle and a tortoise? In my head, turtles like to get wet and tortoises don't. That's all I know.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Patrick moved the gigantic turtle in with his other three at their reptile facility. But then a tree fell on it, and they had to remodel. He and his wife moved the tortoises into their house. He says the tortoises mostly spend their time walking. He called it patrolling, usually the perimeter.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
If both Patrick and his wife were leaving the house, they'd put up baby gates. One day, they came home to find the baby gates torn down.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I mean, he hadn't just kind of torn these up. He'd also eaten the bills. Oh, yeah.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Patrick heard his wife yelling.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
He sent us a photo of what had happened. We couldn't figure out what we were looking at. There's a toilet on its side, knocked away from the pipes. There's water all over the floor. And little pieces of lettuce. A lot of them. And in the corner, an enormous tortoise.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Toilets can weigh 120 pounds. Patrick says the turtle is 31 years old. They call him Mega Turtle. A tortoise's lifespan is estimated to be somewhere between 80 and 150 years. But a tortoise named Jonathan, who lives on the island of St. Helena, is estimated to be about 192 years old. What will you do? I mean, Megaturtle is going to outlive you. He's going to outlive me.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I mean, he's going to outlive maybe all of us. What's the plan? Where will he go?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
We'll be right back. Support for Criminal comes from GiveWell. GiveWell is an independent nonprofit that has spent the last 17 years researching charitable organizations. Only after careful and in-depth research will they give donation recommendations to only the highest impact causes. Over 125,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate more than $2 billion.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And GiveWell's research shows that these donations could save over 200,000 lives. They want to help you to make informed decisions about high-impact giving. So all of their research and recommendations are available on their site for free. You can make tax-deductible donations to their recommended funds or charities, and GiveWell doesn't take a cut.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
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Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Steve Smith and Louise Brown work at one of Europe's largest wildlife hospitals. It's in southeast England, near Oxford. It's called Tiggy Winkles Wildlife Hospital. That's quite a name for a wildlife hospital.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Wait, there were enough sick hedgehogs that it could create a whole hospital? Yeah.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Well over 300 at any given time.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Today, people find and bring in all kinds of wild animals, and the hospital treats them for free. Steve is the veterinary surgeon at the hospital, and he's performed surgery on everything from a bat to a toad with a broken arm.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The hospital is busy. They're usually treating more than a thousand different animals at a time. One day, they got a call about what Steve calls a strange large orange bird.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Or are we going to get the money back?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
But you're thinking, I have no idea what a big orange bird in England, what could this be?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The person who had found the sick bird managed to catch it.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And what happened when it arrived?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And it smelled familiar, like curry. Yeah, really strong smell.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The herring gull is one of the most common types of seagulls in the UK. They're always grey and white with black wing tips.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
How do you think he got covered in curry?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Herring gulls are what the British Trust for Ornithology calls opportunists. They prefer crabs, but will eat almost anything they find. They named the bird Vinny. Vinny was perfectly healthy, just needed a bath.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Seagulls, are they friendly birds?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
A herring gull can be about 26 inches long. And when it flaps its wings, the wingspan can be close to five feet.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
One bath wasn't enough. They kept him at the hospital, and over the next couple of weeks, they had to give him a bath every two or three days. Steve says that anything on a bird's feathers can interfere with their natural methods of waterproofing and insulation.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Seagulls are smart. At least one type of gull is able to solve puzzles, like pulling on a string to get a piece of food. And they will sometimes tap their feet on the ground fast, mimicking the sound of falling raindrops, because the sound brings worms up to the surface where the gulls can easily catch and eat them. They drove Vinny to a lake and got him out of the car.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
He was in a dog crate and kept trying to break his way out with his beak. They walked for a few minutes and stopped by the lakefront. Then they opened up the crate and Vinny took off.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
In March, at a different animal rescue in England, the Lower Mosswood Nature Reserve and Wildlife Hospital, a woman brought in a baby hedgehog she'd found on the side of the road. A baby hedgehog is also called a hoglet. It's not a good sign to see a hedgehog out during the day. The woman wanted to help.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
She took the hedgehog home and put it in a box with some newspaper, a hot water bottle, and a little dish of cat food. But it didn't move all night or touch the food. So she brought it to the animal rescue. The staff opened the box and immediately knew it wasn't a hedgehog. It was the furry gray pom-pom from the top of a hat.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The doctor said the woman took the news very well and had just wanted to help. Last November, Brett Ingram had just started a new job near Dallas. She says the first couple of days were stressful, and she got home late on her second day.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Then she looked up, and she says she saw a large breathing ball of gray fur.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
What did the face look like?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Brett called a wildlife rescue person to come help, who told her she didn't do night calls.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
It shouldn't bite you? Yeah. I mean, I don't know much about possums, but I do know that they have teeth.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
You know what I think I would have done? I would have gotten my animals and would have barricaded ourselves in a room until that wildlife rescue would open up the next morning.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
She says that eventually she was able to grab him.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
You tried to calm him down. So you held him for a second?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
How did you smell once you put the possum down?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Brett says she saw him again a few days later near her porch.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And made his way into her Christmas tree where it was warm. Well, Brett, I want to thank you very much, and I wish you good luck this year with no animals.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nydia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Special thanks to the pets of Criminal. You can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program, Criminal Plus. You can listen to Criminal, This is Love, and Phoebe Reads a Mystery without any ads. Plus, you'll get bonus episodes.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
These are special episodes with me and Criminal co-creator Lauren Spohr, telling stories from the last 10 years of working together. And at the end of each episode, we share things we've been enjoying. Recently, I recommended the Ken Burns Leonardo da Vinci documentary. I'm always hoping to get a phone call that they need a new Ken Burns narrator and I can have the job.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And what do you do? Do you just, do you like put it in a colander? How do you clean? What do you do?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus. We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram at criminal underscore podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
So what exact sentence did you say to the bank when you brought the bills back?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Do you think that, you know, there was something about this money, like that he, that this, this is better than a steak. I mean, that he kind of sensed that this was real valuable stuff.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
I think that's pretty disgusting what you just told me about the smell. How much money did you end up getting back?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Did you talk to him about it? Did you try to like show him some of the bills and say no?
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
For the past three years, one of our last episodes of the year has been stories about animals. And it's always one of my favorites to make. Last year, there was a story about a denture-stealing mouse, a cockatoo named Harry who snuck onto a cruise ship and was given a cabin of her own, and a cat named Onion who could find his way into anything, even a rice cooker.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
And as always, the story that's become a tradition. From the New York Times in 1908, about a large dog that the paper described as a splendid Newfoundland, who rescued a small child who'd fallen into a river outside of Paris. The dog was rewarded with a steak. And then, two days later, another child fell into the river and was rescued by the same dog, who got another stake.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
It kept happening, almost every day. People in the area were starting to worry. And then they discovered that the dog was pushing the children into the river himself, so that he could claim his reward. The headline read, Dog, a Fake Hero. It's that time of year again. Today, stories of animals really going for it. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Carrie and Clayton Law live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
This spring, in Durham, North Carolina, where I live, someone called 911 and told the operator, there's a noise that just won't stop, and I'm very tired, and I want to know what the heck is going on. She described the sound as an alien spaceship. Around the same time, in Newbury, South Carolina, the police department started receiving noise complaints about some kind of industrial machine running.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The sheriff said they'd also received complaints about a constant noise that sounded like a siren or a whine or a roar, and that some people had even flagged down deputies to ask what was happening. When officers responded to the caller in Durham, North Carolina, and the complaints in Newberry, South Carolina, they discovered that they were all coming from the same source, cicadas.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
This spring, for the first time since Thomas Jefferson was president, two types of cicadas emerged from underground at the same time. There were trillions of them. They find their mates by being very, very loud, so loud that scientists who study them wear earmuffs.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Okay. Clayton, you're like lukewarm, but...
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
The Newberry, South Carolina Sheriff's Office issued a statement that said, Although to some the noise is annoying, they pose no danger. Unfortunately... It is the sounds of nature. Here's another story about a 911 call.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Police Sergeant Demir Kaduzovic was on duty. This was North Ridgeville, Ohio, around 5 a.m. There's a bar nearby called the train station, and Demir said that his first thought was that the caller had been at the bar and had had too much to drink and thought a pig was following him. But Demir and another officer went anyway.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Exactly this time last year, they'd hired some people to build a fence in their yard. And they planned to pay the fence installers in cash. Clayton went to the bank and withdrew the money in 50s and 100s. The bank teller sealed it in an envelope.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Eventually, they got the pig into the police car. It sat in the back seat. The police department put up a Facebook post about what had happened. They included a picture of the pig in the backseat of the car. The pig is kind of big. It looks to me like it weighs 50 pounds with black bristly hair.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Someone's pet who dug her way out of a fenced-in yard and taken herself for a walk. In September, a woman on an airplane traveling from Norway to Spain opened her in-flight meal and, as one passenger said, quote, a mouse jumped out.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Reportedly, the situation was very calm, although the man sitting next to her told the BBC that he tucked his pants into his socks, quote, so the mouse would not crawl up his legs. the plane made an unscheduled landing in Denmark.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
Support for Criminal comes from Ritual. In the winter months, the days are shorter and sometimes the sun has already gone down before the work day is over. An easy way to make sure you're still getting vitamin D is to take a multivitamin. I've been taking Ritual's Essential for Women every day for a while now. I appreciate that it's smaller than a lot of multivitamins, and it smells like mint.
Criminal
Turtle vs. Toilet, a Monster in the Closet, and a Surprise Possum
It's a much more pleasant experience. You take two rituals essential for women capsules a day, each containing nine key nutrients, including vitamin D, folate, vitamin B12, and omega-3. And your body absorbs those nutrients slowly, so you don't have to take it with food. Plus, Ritual is USP verified.
Criminal
Valentine
Support for Criminal comes from Squarespace. You can do it all in one place, all on your terms. Visit squarespace.com for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash criminal to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. and leads him to a dark secret about his own family.
Criminal
Valentine
There was a lot of watching British gardening shows and Rick Steves. But more than anything, my mother wanted to watch Larry David. She would laugh and laugh. My father would often come at the end of the day, and I'd head back to his house. He and my mother were married for 30 years, had three children together, and had been divorced for a decade. But they never really drifted apart.
Criminal
Valentine
My father would show up to the hospice every evening around five. And hours later, I'd call and ask where he was. And he'd say, your mother and I are sitting outside, having a glass of wine and listening to Blossom Deary. It's a beautiful night. My mother had been giving him a hard time about his decision to grow a beard. She'd said, Tony, what are you going to do about that beard?
Criminal
Valentine
It's really awful. Then one day he walked in, and the beard was gone. My mother and I were at Captain Jack's, a seafood restaurant, when I realized something had changed. Her favorite thing in the world had been their onion rings. She looked at me after eating a few and said, You know what, Phoebe? I'm not really hungry. She said that day what she said every time we got in the car.
Criminal
Valentine
I'm here driving on this beautiful day with my girl Phoebe. What more could I want? Right around this time I did an interview with the musician Peggy Seeger. It was a difficult interview for a lot of reasons. But there was a point where, listening back now, I think I couldn't hide what was happening. What was it like to lose him?
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Valentine
And when we do, we're never happy with how it comes out. But we tried. We went to the hair salon at 8 a.m. We were on our way to the interview by 9.30. I like to be early everywhere I go, so we got there early. We were sitting in the car in the parking lot waiting. And two minutes before we were supposed to walk in, I got a phone call.
Criminal
Valentine
No, I don't know. I only ask because I wonder if you had been watching someone decline for a very long time and be sick, even though he was good at it. And I wonder in some way... Of course, the easy answer, and that's the answer. Of course, it's hard. It's the worst thing in the world. It's horrible, of course. But that's not really, that's just the simple thing.
Criminal
Valentine
I wonder in some way whether because you had this life with Irene that was happening in some way, and because he had been sick, I just, that's what I'm interested in. You know, is it anything more than just, of course, of course, horrible? My mother had started to have pain. I'd see it in her face, and she'd hold her stomach. She never complained, but I was always watching, constantly asking.
Criminal
Valentine
At one point she said, "'Phoebe, you asked me five minutes ago. The answer is the same.' "'We had this new language. Where are you on a scale of one to ten?' Three we could live with. When it got to five, I went to find the nurses. The nurse station was just outside my mother's room. I passed by it every time I walked down the hall to get her a Diet Pepsi or push her outside to have a cigarette.
Criminal
Valentine
I got to know them all, and they were wonderful. I'd go and tell them that my mother was at a five again, and the answer would always be, well, that's not good. Let's see what we can do. They would come and talk to her and comfort me and find a way to get the pain to go back down. One morning, my mother said, let's go for a drive. It was a beautiful May day. Things were green.
Criminal
Valentine
We drove on back roads to my father's house to pick something up. As we were driving back, I saw my mother grimace a bit in the passenger seat. I asked her about her pain. She looked out the window and said, don't ask me about that anymore. Let's talk about the trees. We'll be right back.
Criminal
Valentine
Building a website can seem intimidating if you've never done it before, but you don't need to worry when you use Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform to help you stand out and succeed online.
Criminal
Valentine
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Criminal
Valentine
Like their website builder called Blueprint AI. It just asks you a few questions about your brand or business, and it uses that information to create a blueprint for your online presence. Plus, your websites will look great no matter what device people use to access them. A phone, computer, or tablet.
Criminal
Valentine
My mother had gone to have a CAT scan of her stomach a few weeks earlier because of some issue with gallstones, her gallbladder. Nothing serious. But during that scan, they had found something else on her pancreas. Pancreatic cancer. I remember sitting in the car listening to the woman and thinking, I needed her to stop explaining things for a second. I couldn't catch up.
Criminal
Valentine
Visit squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash criminal to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Support for Criminal comes from Apple Podcasts. Each month, Apple Podcasts highlights one series worth your attention, and they call these series essentials.
Criminal
Valentine
This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family.
Criminal
Valentine
Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. My sister Chloe died in 2015. She was just about to turn 30. She and my mother were very close. Soon after we found out that my mother had cancer, she started talking about Chloe a lot. And talking to her.
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Valentine
Wish you were here. Hope you're having a good time. But you're having a good time, and I'll be happy if you're not here.
Criminal
Valentine
As my mother got sicker, I found myself talking to Chloe, too. I was on a run one morning, and out loud said, Chloe, get ready. She's coming. I've done all I can here. It's your turn now. I kept saying it. I knew things were really turning when she didn't want a cigarette. I'd try and get her to eat little bites of things. I started calling people and telling them that they should come.
Criminal
Valentine
Come now and not in a week or two when she may be sleeping a lot. A lot about the last 15 years of my mother's life had been hard. And all I wanted to do now was to make her as happy as possible, letting only the good things through. Okay, Mom, what did you just say you were?
Criminal
Valentine
I said that I wanted to be, and I'm going to be, happy and... I forget the other thing.
Criminal
Valentine
My mother was always talking about how she needed a manicure. So I decided I would give her a manicure, not something I've ever done before. She'd been keeping her hands kind of balled into fists, and I gently opened her fingers and painted her nails bright red. My niece and my mother were very close, and we decided that it was time for her to come and say goodbye. She goes to school in Vermont.
Criminal
Valentine
My father went to pick her up, and I met her at the door outside to let her know that Grandma looked a little different. Standing in the hall outside of my mother's door, my niece said, She's dying, Phoebe. And I said, Yes, she is. And she's so happy you're here. And then this 15-year-old walked into her grandmother's room and sat right on the side of her bed and leaned down and said, Hi, Grandma.
Criminal
Valentine
I'm so glad to see you. My mother wasn't really eating anything by this point. We'd started putting Diet Pepsi in a dropper, the same kind they were using to give her morphine and Ativan. Chocolate chip ice cream still worked sometimes. A few bites. She'd let us know when she didn't want any more.
Criminal
Valentine
I had to go and have a meeting with the nurses for a few minutes, and I left Madeline in with my mother. I asked her to take care of her for a little while. She seemed a little nervous. When I came back 15 minutes later, I peeked my head in the door and saw Madeline spooning little bits of ice cream into my mother's mouth and then using a napkin to make sure she hadn't dropped any.
Criminal
Valentine
My mother was staring right at her. I decided to leave them alone. The nurses kept telling me that they couldn't say exactly when my mother would die. I kept asking. I'd been asking that question since December. This was May. They told me she likely had a week or less.
Criminal
Valentine
The options weren't great. My mother at 73 had had some health issues and was not a good candidate for the long and invasive surgery that could be done. Putting her through radiation, chemo, treatment would be hard and probably wouldn't add that much time to her life. Pancreatic cancer. I didn't know much about it, but I'd always heard that it was the worst.
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Valentine
They said that sometimes people need to feel like they have permission to go, so we should start telling my mother that she could leave any time. What a wild thing, I thought. But I would say it. I started telling her that she could go anytime, that everything was going to be okay, that her children would be fine, and she had done her job.
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My cousin is a geriatric nurse practitioner, and I asked her what she thought about this. She said, yes, and that my mother should hear it from each of her children and see our faces, not just voices on the phone. One morning, I got my sister and brother on FaceTime. My mother's eyes were closed, and she wasn't speaking much.
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Valentine
But when she heard their voices, her eyes opened, and they both told her that they loved her and that it was okay to go. I always had a hard time leaving at night, but the aides and nurses started telling me that sometimes people need space. It felt very counterintuitive. I would get back to my father's house at 7.30 or 8.
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Valentine
My partner Sarah would be there with dinner and our new four-month-old puppy. I'd walk in and immediately call the nurses and ask how she was. I'd tell them that I would be back there at 8 a.m., but my arrival started getting earlier. 8 a.m. became 7 and then 6 and then 5. It was like a magnet. I'd wait outside her room just watching, trying not to wake her. I didn't know what else to do.
Criminal
Valentine
I didn't want to be anywhere else. I kept thinking about the heat wave in Chicago when I was nine. My mother dragged the mattresses off of our beds and put them outside. On New Year's Eve, she would always set up Twinkies and root beer and create a string maze through all the rooms of the house.
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Valentine
Before we went to sleep, she would come in and say goodnight, and you could pick whether you wanted your head rubbed or your back rubbed. I didn't forget that stuff. On May 15th, I stayed in bed until 4.45 a.m., and then left to see her. When I walked in, my mother was still there, breathing slowly and then not breathing. Someone told me that dying is a lot of work, just like giving birth.
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Valentine
I was trying not to crowd her. Sarah and I went to an antique festival, something that I would normally never agree to. My Aunt Jane was there with my mother and texting updates all the time. It was an odd thing, walking around looking at old fishing rods, knowing that the next text I could get might be that my mother was gone. I ended up buying a painting of a man riding on the top of a whale.
Criminal
Valentine
He kind of looked like a pilgrim, and he was wearing these shoes with heels. I kept thinking how much my mother would like that. My father was fixated on making arrangements. It hadn't been so long since we did this for my sister. I remember that funeral director saying we would need an urn of some sort.
Criminal
Valentine
He said he could sell us one, but if it were him, he would go to Michael's and buy a nice cookie jar or something like that to make sure it had a lid. So we did. A white ceramic cookie jar from the mall. We dropped it off. It was a set of threes, so we told them they could keep the rest. When we came back to pick up her ashes, they told me there was a problem. She didn't fit.
Criminal
Valentine
They had really tried, but they were having a hard time getting all the ashes in the largest of the jars. I asked if I could try. I walked back into the office and saw Chloe's ashes there in a cardboard box, a plastic bag the size of a bag of flour. A man showed me that it just wasn't going to work, so I asked if he would hand her to me.
Criminal
Valentine
It's hard to be told that there's nothing anyone can do. When my father was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, I got on the phone and he was sitting with an oncologist a week later, making a plan, signing up for the newest clinical trial. And so this news, to be told that this was it, was odd. Lauren and I walked into the studio and started our interview with PBS.
Criminal
Valentine
And I moved and shaped and stuffed her in there, and I held her in while I asked the man to quickly get the superglue on the top of the lid. When Sarah and I got back to the hospice house, my aunt and uncle and father were outside. The sun was out. I walked into her room to say hello. Her eyes were closed. We changed her into some clean pajamas.
Criminal
Valentine
I'd become a pro at this point, at rolling her over, holding on to her as the aide or nurse pulled the sheets out from underneath. Whenever we would turn her, my mother's eyes would shoot open. She hated it. She was in pain. She would grab onto my hand with so much force, I couldn't imagine that this was someone who was dying.
Criminal
Valentine
I'd tell her that I was right there, and there was no way I was going to let her fall. I'd make a joke about how strong I was. When we finally got her changed and moved, it was always a relief. I'd fall down next to her and say, We did it, Mom. It's over now. And then I'd offer her a little Diet Pepsi. That night, the aides told me that they had her.
Criminal
Valentine
She was well taken care of, that she would want me to get some rest. I was told that people's feet start to look a little blue and get cold at the end. So before I left, I felt my mother's feet. Warm. Warm. The next morning, it was still dark when I arrived.
Criminal
Valentine
I slipped into my mother's room, and unlike the way I'd left her the night before, now her eyes were open, and she seemed to be struggling to breathe. The nurse came in, and we gave my mother her medicine early, and then the nurse put a patch on my mother's neck to help her breathe. It didn't work. I was trying not to let my mother see how upset I was at the fact that she seemed to be struggling.
Criminal
Valentine
I sat down by her side and held her hand and talked to her about the funny painting with the man in the heels. I told her I'd go get us some coffee. Then I went into the hall and asked the nurse what she thought about the idea that people need space to die. She said, well, yes, but also people leave the way they lived. If your mother was a social person, she might like you around. Company.
Criminal
Valentine
When I walked back in the room, my mother's eyes were still open, staring right at me. But her breath was calm. The calmest breathing I'd ever seen. I told her to go find Chloe, and that I'd come find them. And I told her thank you. And then she took her last breath. I had my hand on her shoulder, and I closed my eyes, and I just started breathing. The birds outside the window had not stopped.
Criminal
Valentine
The rain had not stopped. After a minute, I felt my mother's wrist. No pulse. I kept standing there with my hand on her shoulder. After about ten minutes, I walked out to the nurse's station to let them know that my mother had died at 8.16 p.m. The nurse came in and listened to her chest, and then said, Valentine, it was an honor caring for you. I'd never really been with a dead body before.
Criminal
Valentine
I'd been to the body farm for an episode of Criminal, but I didn't really know what to expect. I had no idea how peaceful it would be. I called my father and Sarah, and they started the drive over. I spent the next 20 minutes alone with her in the room. After a while, the aide came in and asked if it would be all right to wash my mother a little so we could get her changed. I said, of course.
Criminal
Valentine
I said I would help. It was so funny. My mother's back was still warm. Her cheek was cold. We washed her and then dressed her back in her favorite gray sweater and put the Phoebe pin on her chest. and then braided her hair, and I put a bow at the end, and sprayed her with Chanel No. 5, her favorite. I put her pocketbook on the end of her bed.
Criminal
Valentine
I remember being asked questions about how I felt about true crime media and what makes a good story, and thinking, none of this matters at all. Two days later, I flew to Massachusetts to see her. I remember walking into her room and realizing that this cancer hadn't taken over yet. She seemed great, happy, hungry. It was that first trip to see her after I found out that I started recording.
Criminal
Valentine
When the funeral home showed up, I realized that this was the one thing I couldn't do. I didn't want to see her being taken away. I stayed in the room until I heard they were outside, and then I did what I had done for so many days in the past months— I left my mother's room and went for a run. Sarah stayed with my mother until they took her away. I ran the same route that I had all those times.
Criminal
Valentine
When I got back, my mother was gone. Sarah told me that when they opened the door to bring my mother out, the whole staff and all the volunteers were lined up on both sides of the hallway, wishing my mother a good journey, telling her how glad they were to have gotten to know her. I wrote her obituary the next morning. It was strange to try to get the feeling of her right.
Criminal
Valentine
I wrote that she loved beautiful things, stone walls, French braids. She loved a good joke. She loved a well-cut suit on a man. She loved Cape Cod. She loved the sun. She loved fried clams but did not like bellies. She loved onion rings, chocolate chip ice cream. She loved a marshmallow sundae. She hated eggs and whipped cream. She loved opera and the talking heads, Italian vogue.
Criminal
Valentine
She loved an event and was a fantastic hostess. She loved her children. I chose the picture that she asked for, for the obituary, of her on the beach on Cape Cod when she was about 38. We had her memorial in Sudbury, Massachusetts, where she grew up on June 1st, in a beautiful old chapel, I wore my mother's skirt. We always called it the butterfly skirt. She'd worn it at Chloe's funeral.
Criminal
Valentine
I played some of the tape I had recorded of her over the last few months, so my mother was there with us in the room.
Criminal
Valentine
Would you introduce yourself? My name is Valentine Judge. I'm 73 years old, and I've been living in Chicago for about 25 years. And now I'm back here close to Phoebe and close to the many humorous acts that we will perform.
Criminal
Valentine
I did see that, honey. You like that? Oh, wow. Look how young I am. Valentine, you looked pretty good then. You did look pretty good then. That was when I was flirting.
Criminal
Valentine
Yeah, but cropped in a little bit. Okay, cropped in. That's the picture you want?
Criminal
Valentine
I said that I wanted to be and I'm going to be happy and I forget the other thing. Comfortable.
Criminal
Valentine
comfortable and I'm both because you're being served donuts in bed I'm being served donuts in bed and my girl Phoebe is here so I am happy and now we just need to find the remote okay I'll sign off okay say you gotta end the show you gotta say something to end the show I have to say something to end the show yeah well the star of the show is going away That's me, yes.
Criminal
Valentine
Okay. Would you introduce yourself? My name is Valentine Judge. I'm 73 years old, and I've been living in Chicago for about 25 years. And now I'm back here close to Phoebe and close to the many humorous acts that we will perform.
Criminal
Valentine
If you'd like to hear even more This Is Love, subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. If you're already a listener, tell someone about it. Thanks very much. Criminal and This Is Love are created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer.
Criminal
Valentine
Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. You can learn more about the show on our website, thisislovepodcast.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisislovepodcast.com slash newsletter. You can listen to This Is Love without any ads by signing up for Criminal Plus.
Criminal
Valentine
You'll also get to listen ad-free to our other shows, Criminal and Phoebe Reads A Mystery. Plus, you'll get bonus episodes and more. To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at This Is Love Show. This Is Love is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge, and this is love.
Criminal
Valentine
I think they know that now. Oh, they do? Okay. Anything else you'd like to say while we're recording? Phoebe, I love you, and I'm so glad you came to see me, and I hope you come back again soon.
Criminal
Valentine
Well, I'll be back tomorrow and then next week. Okay, well, we're going to say over and out for now, and we'll bring it back out.
Criminal
Valentine
I remember meeting with the hospice team. I just started asking questions. My main one, always with the caveat, I know you can't tell me exactly, was what they had seen with pancreatic cancer and how long people lasted. One of the nurses told me, I've seen people live a year and a half, and I've seen people eating a bag of Doritos today and then dead tomorrow.
Criminal
Valentine
But I'd say your mother has about six months. And then she told me how to get something they called a comfort care box, which is an actual locked box full of drugs, morphine and Ativan. I told the nurse my mother had just eaten a pound of onion rings and was in no pain at all. Her response was, better to have it. You never know.
Criminal
Valentine
I stood in line at the pharmacy with all the other people picking up their prescriptions, and all I kept thinking was that they were there to pick up stuff that would keep someone alive. This was about two weeks before I was supposed to go on tour, the 10th anniversary criminal tour. My mother had been very interested in ticket sales.
Criminal
Valentine
I told her that Chicago was going great, things were a little light at that point in New York. She told me not to worry. It was a hard thing deciding to go through with the tour, knowing at any moment I could get a call. We were dealing with a finite number of days, and I would be choosing to spend them in Seattle and Philadelphia. I started calling my mother each day at 4.30 exactly.
Criminal
Valentine
How are you feeling? I'm feeling just fine. Oh, good. When I talked to you yesterday, you said you had low energy.
Criminal
Valentine
Not much. I already looked at the weather forecast. We'll do for a little bit tonight.
Criminal
Valentine
Oh, but... I know, it's all going to melt. How are you feeling? Good, good. Well, I don't have anything else to report. I'm just, you know, working away and that's it. Well, I'll see you on Friday.
Criminal
Valentine
I talked to her about what I should wear on tour. My mother was always very glamorous and loved clothes. I told her how Lauren thought it would be a good idea for me to wear a tuxedo. She didn't agree. But you can see the vision. Yes, I definitely can. If it's a well-fitted tuxedo... Yes.
Criminal
Valentine
That would make a big difference. Who else is on stage with you? Lauren. So she could wear a tuxedo? Oh, well, now, if both of you are wearing tuxedos, then it makes more sense.
Criminal
Valentine
I was absolutely determined to find a way for her to come to our show in Boston... I kept talking to her about it, from every city. I called my mother before the show. I remember standing outside of the Fitzgerald Theater in Minnesota, giving her an update on the crowd. I told her I would see her in a few days. Finally, we arrived in Boston.
Criminal
Valentine
I got to the theater early to make sure that her seat would have the best view. She'd be using a wheelchair, and I spent a long time trying to map out the best route for her to get backstage. I told everyone that my mother was coming and that she was sick, and the staff at the Wilbur Theater were wonderful. The security guards were waiting outside when her car pulled up to the loading dock.
Criminal
Valentine
I was shocked at how they treated her, like royalty. We got my mother to the dressing room, and more and more family and friends arrived. We made this little pin for the tour. It's kind of a joke. It's a photograph of me looking at the camera during a local news interview years ago. I gave her one, and she put it right on. I spent the whole show looking out at the audience and finding her.
Criminal
Valentine
She was sitting next to my aunt. I kept looking to see if she was laughing. She was, not all the time, but some of the jokes were landing. She was always a harsh critic. My aunt told me that when the show was over and people were clapping, my mother tried to stand up. My aunt tried to stop her, but my mother said, I'm standing up. And she did.
Criminal
Valentine
The security guys carried her wheelchair down the steps out to the loading dock. I told her we had seven more shows, and then I'd be back to Massachusetts to be with her. She told me to do good work, don't worry about her, and that she'd see me soon. A few days before I got home, I asked if she could have another scan. She seemed to be doing so well. No symptoms.
Criminal
Valentine
I wondered if there had been a mistake. We planned a family weekend on Cape Cod, her favorite place on Earth. She grew up going there with her three sisters. The night before I went to pick her up, the doctor called. The cancer had spread over her pancreas and now to her liver. I asked the doctor what she would do if this were one of her parents.
Criminal
Valentine
And she said, I would let them be and have as much good time as possible. We went ahead with our Cape Cod weekend. My partner Sarah went early and cooked and filled the house with flowers and made a bedroom for my mother. And I sat with my mother and talked and looked at pictures.
Criminal
Valentine
Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. This week, we released our 100th episode of our other podcast, This Is Love. To mark the occasion, we've done something very different. A story about my mother, Valentine, who died this spring. We wanted to share it here, too.
Criminal
Valentine
I do see that, honey. You like that? Oh, wow, look how young I am. Valentine, you looked pretty good then. You did look pretty good then. That was when I was flirting.
Criminal
Valentine
Yeah, but cropped in a little bit. Okay, cropped in. That's the picture you want?
Criminal
Valentine
That whole weekend, we ate and laughed and drove around the beaches she loved so much. She sang old songs with my Aunt Jane. They told stories about growing up. My mother seems so alive.
Criminal
Valentine
When she left, all we talked about was coming back when it got warmer, when the flowers were out. and then I basically moved into the hospice house. I started using her room to do interviews over Zoom for Criminal and This Is Love, or if there was an open room, I'd sometimes do interviews there, or track, which is what we call recording my narration.
Criminal
Valentine
On a Friday night in January 1893, a group of masked men arrived at the jail. Yes? Hold on, Lily. Hello? Hello? Absolutely. Lily, just one second, Lily. One second, Lily. Sorry. No problem.
Criminal
Valentine
Mom, just try to take... Sorry to make you be quiet for a little while, Mom, but I'll be done soon. Thank you very much. Good, good, good. Thank you, thank you. Okay.
Criminal
Valentine
All right. Sorry, I'm back. One Friday night in January 1893, a group of masked men arrived at the jail in a small town outside of New Orleans. It became a routine. I'd arrive around 8 each morning, after stopping to get her a cinnamon roll or an old-fashioned donut on the way.
Criminal
Valentine
I'd walk into my mother's room and sometimes find that she wasn't there, already down in the dining room, having an English muffin and coffee. Always coffee. Or sometimes I'd find her in her room not yet awake. I'd walk in and try to sit down quietly. She'd usually wake up quickly, and I'd go sit on her bed, and she'd say the same thing always. Hi, darling. I'm so glad to see you.
Criminal
Valentine
And then, you know what I'd really love? Coffee. Most mornings, she would remind me that I had my 9 a.m. editorial call coming up. I'd say, I'll be quick. And her response was always, take your time. In between meetings and interviews, we would go out, taking long drives around western Massachusetts, always with a big emphasis on lunch.
Criminal
Valentine
On December 14th last year, Lauren Spohr, who I've made these shows with for the last 10 years, and I were driving to the local PBS television station in North Carolina to record an interview about the last 10 years of Criminal. I remember we decided it would be a good idea to go to a hair salon that morning and have them try to do something with our hair. We never do this.
Criminal
Valentine
And then, usually with a stop for marshmallow sundaes and Diet Pepsi. We'd come back so my mother could take a nap and I could do some work. Most afternoons, sneaking away for a run. The same route up and down Pleasant Street to the top of the UMass campus and then back. 3.2 miles. My mother would say the same thing to me as I left. Please be careful. And I'd reply the same way every time.
Criminal
Valentine
Don't worry, Mom. It's on sidewalks. She'd be waiting when I came back. How'd you do? My mother was very present during work calls. At one point, Lauren was telling everyone that one way to keep cut flowers from wilting is to add a few drops of vodka. My mother joked, same for me. Another time, we were having an edit for the criminal episode about jaywalking.
Criminal
Valentine
I offered to go into another room, but she said she was happy just listening. And then, an hour later, she said out loud, this is the most boring thing I've ever heard in my life. Everyone laughed. Her sisters and cousins would come and visit, and then the singing would start. My Aunt Phoebe would sing the songs they made up when they were little.
Criminal
Valentine
When my mother was six, she made up a cereal she called Crimies, which was just a bunch of healthy cereals all mixed up together. But when you called them Crimies, it made it more exciting. and she made up a jingle. Here's my aunt playing the piano in the living room of the hospice.
Criminal
Valentine
Crimeys, ooh, Crimeys, ooh, Crimeys, they are so good. Crimeys, ooh, Crimeys, ooh, Crimeys, they are so good. One more time.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Support for Criminal comes from Apple Podcasts. Each month, Apple Podcasts highlights one series worth your attention, and they call these series essentials. This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusault was born in Lowell, Massachusetts in 1940. It wasn't uncommon at that time for a family to hold a wake in their home after someone had died. People would come to pay their respects. Growing up, Robert Dusault would attend these wakes in people's houses.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Around 8 a.m., Robert Dusselt entered the Hudson First storage facility. He walked up to the desk and handed a slip of paper to the man behind it. Sam Levine, owner of Hudson Furs. On the slip of paper were four names.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusault tied up Sam Levine and the four other workers in the building, made them put pillowcases over their heads, and told them to stay quiet. Chucky and some of the men came in and headed for the vault.
Criminal
Into the Vault
They had planned to use high-powered drills with specialized drill bits to open the safe deposit boxes. But the drill bits were burning out, and they couldn't get through the locks. But then someone figured out a solution with a crowbar.
Criminal
Into the Vault
When he got to a wake, he would go through the receiving line downstairs and then go upstairs and look through closets and drawers, taking whatever seemed valuable. His sister Dorothy would help him sell what he stole.
Criminal
Into the Vault
It was one of the biggest robberies in the United States. $30 million in 1975 is about $170 million today. Where did Deuce and Chucky go after the heist?
Criminal
Into the Vault
Tim White says that each of the men who robbed the vault got $64,000 and that Robert Chucky and Chucky's girlfriend, Ellen, got on a plane.
Criminal
Into the Vault
They got a suite at the MGM Grand, Chucky was spending a lot of time at the craps table. He proposed to his girlfriend with a ring attached to a bottle of champagne. Robert Dusault was spending his money on sex workers and soon was only hiring one. And then they started dating. Her name was Karen Sponheim.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Chucky went back to Rhode Island. Robert Dussault and Karen Sponheim drove around California. Karen drove because Robert didn't know how. They stayed in luxury hotels until they ran out of money.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Chucky went to the other guys from the robbery, and Tim White says they pooled some money and gave Robert Dussault about $8,500. But he kept asking for more.
Criminal
Into the Vault
On September 3rd, 1975, authorities announced that they had indicted one suspect in connection with the robbery at Hudson First Storage.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusselt's picture was on the front page of the Providence Journal. Police called it a tremendous break in the case and the result of a lot of heel and toe work by the state and city authorities. Police also said they couldn't elaborate on how they got in his name.
Criminal
Into the Vault
He robbed pawn shops and shops that sold rare coins. He was caught after kicking down the glass doors of a clothing store and was arrested for fighting in a donut shop. He had 13 brothers and sisters. His brothers, Paul and Christopher, would plan robberies with him. They would follow delivery trucks. And when the driver left the vehicle, they'd steal everything they could.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusselt and Karen Sponheim were in Texas when he got a phone call from Chucky Flynn saying they needed to talk in person.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Tim White said Robert Dusault and Karen Sponheim left Dallas, afraid that Chucky was coming there to kill him. They drove back to Karen's apartment in Las Vegas. But Chucky was waiting for them there. He traveled to Las Vegas with two of the other men from the robbery. But Robert ended up talking with Chucky alone.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Chucky let Robert go, but law enforcement all over the country were still looking for him. In December of 1975, Karen Sponheim left Robert. He'd been abusive for months. She decided to go to her mother's house in California, but Robert was looking for her and broke into her Las Vegas apartment, thinking she would return there. Karen told the manager of the apartment complex to call the police.
Criminal
Into the Vault
On New Year's Day, police went to Karen's apartment, and Robert Dusault opened the door wearing a bathrobe. They let him get dressed and took him to the police station.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dussault was a sleepwalker, and when he was 15 years old, he fell 30 feet out of his third-floor bedroom window at 2 a.m. It made the front page of The Lowell Sun. His mother told police he'd been walking in his sleep since he was five years old. But at some point, Tim White says, Robert learned that the woman he'd known as his mother was actually his grandmother.
Criminal
Into the Vault
By then, the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970 had changed the way the mafia interacted with the police. The Act had established the Witness Protection Program, and it went into effect in 1971, about five years before Robert Dussault was taken into custody.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dussault had already told the authorities what happened. Chucky was arrested and indicted along with four others. Robert Dusault and Chucky were charged with kidnapping, dangerous weapon assault, illegal possession of firearms and burglar tools, conspiracy, and multiple counts of robbery. Robert Dusault was charged as the lead gunman and a fugitive for his escape from prison.
Criminal
Into the Vault
But he wouldn't be going to prison because he was cooperating. The Womet brothers were charged as accessories to the crime. The state trial was the longest and costliest in Rhode Island history. Armed guards were posted in the courtroom. Witness testimony ended on the 79th day of the trial.
Criminal
Into the Vault
His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family. Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Support for the show comes from Into the Mix, a Ben and Jerry's podcast about joy and justice, produced with Vox Creative.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Raymond Patriarca died in 1984, and his son Raymond Jr. took over his post. Years later, when local journalists gained access to Raymond Sr. 's FBI file, they found that the FBI had an informant who said that Patriarca was the owner of the vault and that he had given his permission to rob it. Chucky Flynn went on to appeal his conviction.
Criminal
Into the Vault
A federal appeals court reversed the conviction, ruling that the presence of armed guards in the courtroom at the trial undermined his right to be presumed innocent. The case was heard by the Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the state. Chucky Flynn got out on parole in 1989, but was indicted again two years later for drug trafficking, extortion, conspiracy, and illegal gambling.
Criminal
Into the Vault
He died in prison in 2001. As for Robert Dussault, he no longer existed. In 2006, Tim White and two former Providence Journal reporters, Wayne Worcester and Randall Richard, started writing a book about the robbery.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Tim White's father, Jack, won a Pulitzer Prize in 1974 for his reporting exposing then-President Richard Nixon's tax fraud. It was in response to Jack White's reporting that Nixon said, quote, I'm not a crook. Jack White died in 2005 at the age of 63. Tim White had always loved the story of the bonded Voltheist and wanted his father to write a book about it.
Criminal
Into the Vault
When his father passed away, Tim decided to do it himself. But there was one problem.
Criminal
Into the Vault
The last thing his father told him he knew was that Robert Dusselt had been given a new name and a job working for Coors Brewing Company.
Criminal
Into the Vault
And then, one day, Tim's mother brought him a box of his father's old reporting documents.
Criminal
Into the Vault
On the envelope, there was an inmate number. Tim used that to confirm that there had been a Robert Dempsey in the Colorado prison system and that he had died in 1992. Because he was deceased, Tim was able to FOIA the government for Robert Dempsey's FBI file.
Criminal
Into the Vault
He started spending more and more time with his best friend, Charles Flynn, who went by Chucky. And Robert Dussault went by Deuce. He got Deuce tattooed on his arm.
Criminal
Into the Vault
In 1982, Robert Dusault, under the name Robert Dempsey, was involved in the armed robbery of a coin emporium in Colorado. At that point, he was still testifying in trials related to the bonded vault case. Federal marshals picked him up at the airport on his way to Rhode Island to testify.
Criminal
Into the Vault
According to Tim White, the FBI file said he had escaped prison again in 1985 and was caught 21 days later after robbing another bank. His death certificate states that he died of heart disease on October 3, 1992, in federal custody in North Dakota. He was 51. When Tim White spoke with Robert Dussault's family members for the book, he was the one to break the news to them that Robert had died.
Criminal
Into the Vault
According to prison records, Robert Dusselt's body was sent to a funeral home and buried at Rose Hill Memorial Park in North Dakota. The only people present at the burial were the funeral director, a man handling the casket, and someone videotaping it.
Criminal
Into the Vault
On the tape, you hear the funeral director reading a few passages from the Bible in front of the open casket of Robert Dussault's body.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Once the funeral director finishes reading, he closes the casket and goes to lower it into the ground.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, Megan Kinane, and Lucy Sullivan. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. This episode was mixed by Emma Munger.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. Tim White, Wayne Worcester, and Randall Richards' book is called The Last Good Heist, the inside story of the biggest single payday in the criminal history of the Northeast. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter.
Criminal
Into the Vault
We hope you'll join our new membership program, Criminal Plus. Once you sign up, you can listen to criminal episodes without any ads, and you'll get bonus episodes with me and criminal co-creator Lauren Spohr, too. To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus. We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram at criminal underscore podcast.
Criminal
Into the Vault
We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusselt was in and out of prison through his late teens and twenties. He was charged for things like larceny by check and convicted of assaulting a police officer.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Chucky also spent time in prison. Sometimes they overlapped. In 1967, Robert Dussault, along with six other men, including Robert's brothers Paul and Christopher, planned to rob two banks at the same time. They would rob one bank, and then, when the Lowell police got there to investigate, they'd rob the other bank. But the night before, someone ratted them out.
Criminal
Into the Vault
The police knew about their plan and were waiting for them at the first bank. Later, Robert Dussault's brother, Paul, testified that the whole thing had been Robert's idea. Robert Dussault was sentenced to 15 to 30 years at a maximum security prison in southern Massachusetts called Walpole.
Criminal
Into the Vault
The prison manufactured license plates— And Tim White says that Robert Dusselt got the stamps into a crate of license plates on its way to the Department of Transportation, where a friend was expecting them.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Along the Mississippi River, between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, there's a stretch of land nicknamed Cancer Alley, because according to the Environmental Protection Agency, the cancer rate is more than seven times the national average, reportedly due to a very high concentration of petrochemical plants. Hear how the community is fighting back against some of the top polluters in the country.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusselt was eventually transferred from Walpole to a lower security prison in Greenfield. Inmates were often granted unofficial furloughs to see their wives for a day or drive to medical appointments. And in the summer of 1975, Robert Dusault convinced a prison guard to drive him to Boston. On the trip, they stopped at a strip club.
Criminal
Into the Vault
In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the most powerful organized crime family in New England was based in Providence. And it was all ruled by a man named Raymond Patriarca.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Raymond Patriarca rose to power in the 1950s and was respected by each of the so-called five families of organized crime. He had a pinball and vending machine business, but he made millions of dollars through loan sharking, illegal gambling, and labor racketeering, among other things.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Raymond Patriarca was allegedly a silent partner in a horse track in Massachusetts with Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra. According to the New York Times, people said Sinatra proposed to Mia Farrow with the diamond ring given to him by Raymond Patriarca. He was always at his office at the National Cigarette Service Company and Coin-O-Matic distributors in Providence.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Chucky Flynn went to Providence to work with some acquaintances of Raymond Patriarca that he had met through someone in prison. Two brothers, John and Walter, were met. But John and Walter's parents weren't Italian, and Tim White says that you had to have at least one Italian parent to be in Raymond Patriarca's inner circle.
Criminal
Into the Vault
The Womets were trying anyway, and told Chucky that they were working on something big. They invited him to participate. And Chucky invited Robert Dussault.
Criminal
Into the Vault
But inside the Hudson fur storage facility, there was a secret vault. Inside, there were 148 safety deposit boxes with millions of dollars worth of coins, jewelry, and cash.
Criminal
Into the Vault
It was called the Bonded Vault Company, and it was owned by Raymond Patriarca.
Criminal
Into the Vault
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Into the Mix, a Ben & Jerry's podcast about joy and justice, produced with Vox Creative. Season three of this award-winning podcast is back, with stories about people fighting for justice in their communities.
Criminal
Into the Vault
In the latest episode, host Ashley C. Ford talks to Sharon Levine, who's fighting to protect her hometown, St. James, Louisiana, from petrochemical pollution.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Yeah. For more than 80 years, the petrochemical industry has operated in the region. And now, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, the cancer rate is more than seven times the national average. When Sharon Levine heard about a new multi-billion dollar deal to build another plant near her home, she rallied her neighbors to fight it. I've been speaking ever since. I've been talking.
Criminal
Into the Vault
You can't shut me up now. Subscribed into The Mix, a Ben and Jerry's podcast.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Robert Dusault and Chucky Flynn prepared to rob the vault inside of the Hudson Fir Storage Facility in Providence in the summer of 1975.
Criminal
Into the Vault
Many of the people who worked for him kept their money and valuables, often stolen, in the safety deposit boxes in Raymond Patriarca's vault.
Criminal
Into the Vault
The heist was originally planned for August 13, 1975. But the day before, while some of the men were cleaning out a van they had stolen to use as the getaway car, a policeman drove by. They got nervous and decided they needed to steal a new van. They postponed the heist by one day. On August 14th, eight men got into the van. Temperatures in Providence that week were in the mid-90s.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
The marshal said that two of the fugitives who'd RSVP'd were on D.C. 's top ten most wanted list. Their names were Charles Watkins and Lloyd Golden. In 1983, Charles Watkins was convicted of second-degree murder. While he was in the D.C. jail, he was somehow able to get a prison guard uniform and escape. He'd been on the run for more than a year.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Here's Toby Roach on the morning of the sting, talking about Charles Watkins and Lloyd Golden.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Marshals were brought in from all over the country, so there was no chance the guests would see someone who'd arrested them before.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
He organized the contest. A group of men surrounded the limo. They opened the car door and arrested Robert Harris. There wasn't a flat tire. There wasn't a television station. And there wasn't a breakfast with boy George. The whole thing had been a sting. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Robert Harris, the man who was arrested, was wanted for burglary and had been on the run for 17 months.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
His name was Louis McKinney. He wore a top hat and played the role of master of ceremonies.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
There was an announcement that a car was parked illegally. This was the cue to the SWAT team to get into position outside of the door. Then they waited.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
The people arrested were put in buses waiting outside the convention center. A U.S. marshal described by the Washington Post as exuberant said they were totally caught off guard. CBS reported that Operation Flagship arrested 94 people.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Reviewing his footage, CBS producer Alan Goldberg watched and re-watched the moment that one of the top ten most wanted fugitives, Charles Watkins, was put onto a police bus. And he noticed Charles Watkins saying they had the wrong guy.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
The marshals had arrested the wrong Charles Watkins. They had arrested the father instead of the son. The LA Times reported that later, Charles Watkins Sr. produced identification and convinced the police that they had the wrong man.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Alan Goldberg learned that the other top-ten fugitive, Lloyd Golden, was not actually a top-ten fugitive either. He was wanted for the sale of narcotics, not armed robbery.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Alan Goldberg and his colleagues started looking more into the FIS program and re-interviewed the director of the U.S. Marshals, Stanley Morris.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Alan Goldberg remembers thinking that Operation Flagship was supposed to focus on really big, quote, high-value people. And so when he learned that it mostly brought in people with misdemeanors, he felt misled.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
The U.S. Marshals had been having trouble finding him, so they came up with a way to get Robert Harris to come to them. At the time, Boy George was so popular, The Guardian described his concert tickets as rare as gold dust. And that gave a U.S. marshal named Toby Roach an idea. He made up a fake television station modeled on MTV called W Rock Video 66.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Whether it's legal, do you think it's ethical to trick people into something like this?
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Three weeks after Operation Flagship, 72 of the 94 people who were captured had been let go. Here's how Alan Goldberg's 1986 CBS piece ended.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
CBS reported that of the 10,000 people the Marshalls had arrested in the past four years of the FIST program, half were released within a week. In 1986, fist operations came to an end. We contacted the U.S. Marshals, and their historian told us that to his knowledge, undercover operations on this scale aren't done today. But he said, the concept continues.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane. This episode was also produced by Sam Kim. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris and Julia Harrison.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. please consider supporting our work by joining our membership program, Criminal Plus. You can listen to Criminal, This Is Love, and Phoebe Reads A Mystery without any ads. Plus, you'll get bonus episodes.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
These are special episodes with me and Criminal co-creator Lauren Spohr, telling stories from the last 10 years of working together. And at the end of each episode, we share things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus. We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram at criminal underscore podcast.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
The U.S. Marshals sent letters to relatives of Robert Harris saying that a brand new television station was having the contest and that Robert Harris had been picked as the winner. Robert Harris wasn't the only target. There were a total of eight people arrested that day, all who believed they'd won tickets to see Boy George. Some of the U.S.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Marshals heard that when Boyd George found out about the sting operation, he filed a complaint with the Department of Justice. He didn't want anything to do with it. The Boy George Sting was one of a series of stings that were all organized by a special task force in the U.S. Marshals. It was called the Fugitive Investigative Strike Teams, nicknamed FIST.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
They specialized in finding ways to get hard-to-find people to come to them. This wasn't always the U.S. Marshals' job. For years, it had been part of the FBI's job to track down federal fugitives. But the 1980 budget cut some of the FBI's funding, and the Attorney General announced that the U.S. Marshals would now take on finding fugitives. The U.S.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Marshals Service was first created in 1789 by Congress as officers of the court. They served warrants and subpoenas and handled federal prisoners. Through 1870, they also took the national census. In the 1800s, they filled in as law enforcement in western territories where there was no federal government. They enforced the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 and Prohibition in the 1920s.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
In the 60s, they were assigned to guard students in a grading segregated schools. And in 1981, the Marshals Service created the Fugitive Investigative Strike Teams, or FIST.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
In 1985, they created a fake airline in Miami called Puno Airlines. Puno means FIST in Spanish. The Marshalls made their own Puno airline stationery and sent letters to the last known addresses of people they were looking for, congratulating them on winning a free trip. It included a fake boarding pass to the Bahamas. They even set up a fake ticket counter in the Miami International Airport.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
The sting resulted in 14 arrests. In another operation in Virginia, the marshal sent out invitations to a special event at a Playboy club. When they arrived, attendees were invited to board a black bus decorated with a giant bunny logo.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
When they got on the bus, they were arrested by undercover agents dressed like Playboy bunnies. More than once, the Marshalls set up fake delivery companies. One was called the Fist Bonded Delivery Service, which, according to the New York Times, sent out letters saying, quote, large packages worth $2,000 of undescribed goods were ready to be delivered.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
When people tried to claim the valuable packages, they were arrested. Toby Roach says that part of what was appealing about the Sting operations was that they were less confrontational. They weren't going to people's homes, which he says was safer for the U.S. Marshals. One of the first large-scale police stings in the United States happened in D.C. in the 1970s.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
They called it Operation Sting because the police officers, like the Paul Newman and Robert Redford movie, The Sting, D.C. police worked with the FBI to try to do something about a recent increase in stolen office equipment. They rented a warehouse and pretended to be the D.C. outpost of a New York mob family and spread the word that they would buy stolen office equipment.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
And they paid good prices for all kinds of things, so good that one man went to a department store, bought a gun, and sold it to the undercover officers for twice the price. The police officers dyed their hair black and tried to talk with Italian accents. But they didn't speak Italian. They could say ciao and arrivederci, but they mostly just made up words.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
They served meatballs and would offer you a Chianti or a whiskey and then get your fingerprints off the glass. One officer introduced himself as Angelo Lasagna. Another was Rico Rigatoni.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
After a few months of doing this, the police threw a party, inviting people they'd done business with to meet the head of the mob family, who was actually just a police officer dressed up as the Don and sitting in a high-back chair. So many people were arrested that night that the city jail ran out of space for everyone. One detective said, we played a game with them.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
We were romance, the mob, the greatest thing that ever happened to them. After it was all over, the police received letters complaining about the way the officers represented Italian-Americans during the operation. One of the officers said, we meant no harm except to the thieves. The New York Times reported that it was plain that the police had had some fun. We'll be right back.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
If you won, you'd be picked up in a limo and taken to see Boy George and the Culture Club perform at the Hartford Civic Center. One of the winners was a 22-year-old named Robert Harris. The television station said they would send a camera crew to film him getting picked up by the president of the station.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
In 1985, U.S. Marshal Toby Roach moved to Washington, D.C. He'd just been promoted to the Chief Deputy U.S. Marshal for the District of Columbia. At the time, there were over 3,000 wanted persons in the D.C. area and over 5,000 outstanding warrants. Toby invited his new boss, a U.S. marshal named Herb Rutherford, over for dinner.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
And they did it. They got to work on the biggest fist operation yet. They called it Operation Flagship. They named their fake television station Flagship International Sports Television, another fist acronym. The Marshalls sent out more than 3,000 invitations, offering free tickets to see the Redskins, now called the Commanders, and a chance to win a trip to Super Bowl XX.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
To claim the tickets, you had to come to a brunch at the Washington Convention Center. The invitation included a phone number to RSVP, The marshal set up a phone bank and waited for the calls to come in. As Toby Roach was preparing Operation Flagship, a young television producer named Alan Goldberg was working on a new CBS news show called West 57th.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
I mean, how did you get the marshals to tell you about an upcoming sting? I mean, you'd think that that would be something that they wouldn't want anyone to know.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Allen Goldberg and a CBS television crew were brought into Operation Flagship's phone bank room. The correspondent for the piece was Meredith Vieira.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
After picking up Robert, the limo drove a few blocks and then suddenly it stopped. The driver said he had a flat tire.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
About 160 people called to say they'd come to the brunch, scheduled for December 15, 1985. Very early that morning, CBS filmed the marshals preparing.
Criminal
Operation Flagship
Going over the PA system, what's going to go over there is, welcome to Flagship International, and now we have a special surprise. You're under arrest, put your hands on your head. So, unsurprised, you're going.
Criminal
Under the Wall
Siobhan is in love. She and her boyfriend are maybe thinking wedding bells. And even though there's no one she'd rather be with, she still wonders, what's the chance of this lasting? How do you get from that point to also being like, I cannot stand you, to the point that I want to cut my ties with you? This week on Explain It To Me, we find out, are we less likely to get divorced than our parents?
Criminal
Under the Wall
Follow Explain It To Me wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Wednesday.
Criminal
The Reverend
Support for Criminal comes from Shutterfly. For the holidays this year, I'm going to print photos of people in my life and give them as gifts. Shutterfly makes it incredibly easy to get your favorite pictures off your phone and to your house. I also really like their photo books. I've done them to remember special trips, a big house project, and now, our first year with a puppy.
Criminal
The Reverend
His doctors thought he had years to live, but in May of 1971, he suddenly died. No autopsy was performed. The cause of death was listed as pneumonia.
Criminal
The Reverend
The suspicious deaths continued. In February 1972, Willie Maxwell's brother was found dead. Attorney John Denson.
Criminal
The Reverend
In May of that year, Dorcas Anderson and Willie Maxwell had a child. And then, in September, Dorcas Anderson was found dead. She was found in her car on the side of the road, just as Mary Lou Maxwell had been found.
Criminal
The Reverend
The police were not able to prove that any crime had occurred. Coroners ruled that Dorcas Anderson died of natural causes. Willie Maxwell was free to go. And free to begin requesting payment on the 17 life insurance policies he'd taken out on his second wife, he collected $80,000.
Criminal
The Reverend
The life insurance industry began in earnest after the Civil War. Casey Sepp says that by 1920, there were almost as many life insurance policies as there were Americans. And she says that by the time Willie Maxwell was taking out policies, the industry had become large, lawless, and lucrative. It was easy to take out a policy and easy to do it without anyone knowing.
Criminal
The Reverend
Willie Maxwell had policies on everyone. His mother, his aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews, even his own infant child.
Criminal
The Reverend
Tom Radney filed so many lawsuits on Willie Maxwell's behalf that he was running out of potential jurors. Casey Sepp writes, It seemed there was hardly a man or woman who had not heard the Reverend plead his case against one insurance company or another. Casey Sepp interviewed Tom Radney before his death in 2011.
Criminal
The Reverend
In 1976, Willie Maxwell's nephew, James Hicks, was found dead in a car on the same road where Dorcas Anderson's body had been found. The medical examiner said there was nothing, quote, which would adequately account for the death of this subject. We'll be right back. Support for Criminal comes from Mint Mobile. With Mint Mobile, what you see is what you get.
Criminal
The Reverend
Specifically, you get a three-month plan for $15 a month. All of their plans come with high-speed 5G data and unlimited talk and text. A friend gave Mint Mobile a try. He's not a fan of contracts or expensive things. He's happy with Mint. He said it was easy to switch and his service is the same, but much, much cheaper. He didn't need to get a new phone or a phone number.
Criminal
The Reverend
He says he wishes he switched sooner. To get this new customer offer and your new three-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash phoebe. That's mintmobile.com slash phoebe. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash phoebe. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only.
Criminal
The Reverend
Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for Criminal comes from Quince. I think one of the nicest things you can do for yourself is to update your bedding. Quince makes it easy. You can get new pillows, a new comforter, or ribbed cotton coverlet for much less than you'd pay elsewhere.
Criminal
The Reverend
Quince bedding, like their clothes, is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. I ordered their 100% cotton luxury organic sateen bedding bundle, which comes with a duvet cover, two shams, a fitted sheet, a flat sheet, and two pillowcases. I picked it after reading a lot of reviews and seeing how many people said these are the best sheets they've ever had.
Criminal
The Reverend
Turn up the luxury when you turn in with Quince. Go to quince.com slash phoebe to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash phoebe for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash phoebe. At this point, five people closely associated with Willie Maxwell had died. He got married again. His third wife was named Ophelia Burns.
Criminal
The Reverend
They lived with two children, the son Willie Maxwell had had with Dorcas Anderson, and a teenage relative of Ophelia's named Shirley Ann Ellington. In 1977, Shirley Ann Ellington was found dead, a mile from their house. She was 16.
Criminal
The Reverend
On June 18, 1977, the funeral for Shirley Ann Ellington was held at House of Hutchinson Funeral Home in Alexander City. People didn't expect Willie Maxwell to come, but he did with his wife.
Criminal
The Reverend
Harper Lee was born in 1926 in Monroeville, Alabama. She's best known for her book, To Kill a Mockingbird. She submitted the completed manuscript to her publisher in 1959. Five days later, she packed her things and moved to Garden City, Kansas, to research a crime that had been making national headlines. The Clutters, a wealthy family of four, had been murdered.
Criminal
The Reverend
One of Shirley Ann Ellington's relatives, a man named Robert Burns, stood up in the pew behind Willie Maxwell and fired three shots directly at his head.
Criminal
The Reverend
Robert Burns was arrested. When he was asked why he did it, he said he was worried about the safety and well-being of the people around Lake Martin. He said he didn't want anyone else he loved to be murdered. The Montgomery Advertiser reported that people felt a, quote, sense of relief that Willie Maxwell was dead.
Criminal
The Reverend
District attorney Tom Young said that the case against Robert Burns would be, quote, treated as an out-and-out murder. Robert Burns hired Willie Maxwell's longtime attorney to defend him. Tom Radney takes his case.
Criminal
The Reverend
The district attorney, Tom Young and Tom Radney, had argued against each other many times in court before. Tom Radney had to figure out what, if any, defense he could make for Robert Burns, and what defense Tom Young wouldn't see coming. He decided to move forward with the defense of not guilty by reason of insanity.
Criminal
The Reverend
She went with her childhood friend and next-door neighbor, author Truman Capote. He'd invited her to be his research assistant. They agreed on a fee of $900. She was excited to work on nonfiction, to learn how to tell a true crime story. She later told a reporter, "...the crime intrigued him, and I'm intrigued with crime, and boy, I wanted to go."
Criminal
The Reverend
Tom Radney also reminded the jury about all of Willie Maxwell's own relatives who had died under mysterious circumstances. According to the Alabama Journal, Radney questioned witnesses continually about Maxwell being an alleged voodoo practitioner and his involvement in the five deaths.
Criminal
The Reverend
Harper Lee was in the courtroom. She'd met Tom Radney a year before at the Democratic National Convention. They'd gotten along. He sent her a summary of the case, and she was intrigued. She set up camp in Alexander City. In the end, Robert Burns was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Tom Radney had won the case, and Harper Lee got to work.
Criminal
The Reverend
After the trial, Robert Burns was briefly institutionalized at a psychiatric hospital in Tuscaloosa. A psychiatrist who evaluated him said, in a way, killing Willie Maxwell was the sanest thing anybody did all summer. Why, I probably would have killed that man myself. When Robert Burns was released from the hospital, Harper Lee interviewed him twice.
Criminal
The Reverend
She met with the family members of the people Willie Maxwell had allegedly killed. Tom Radney gave her a suitcase full of documents, insurance paperwork, legal briefs, everything he had relating to Willie Maxwell. He told her to keep it as long as she needed to write her true crime book. She was calling it The Reverend.
Criminal
The Reverend
Over the years, people have said all kinds of things about the status of the reverend and whether the book exists at all. In 1997, 20 years after Willie Maxwell was killed, Tom Radney said that he and Harper Lee still spoke twice a year, and that each time she told him the book was still in progress.
Criminal
The Reverend
Reconnect with the people in your life this year with personalized holiday gifts from Shutterfly. Visit shutterfly.com and start customizing today. Get 40% off your Shutterfly order with promo code CRIMINAL40 and send something meaningful this year. Get free shipping on qualified orders. See their site for more details.
Criminal
The Reverend
Others have said that Harper Lee told them the book was nearly done, that it just needed an ending. Someone said the book was finished and locked in a trunk. Someone else said they'd read it and it was even better than in cold blood. Casey Sepp writes that Harper Lee was so elusive that even her mysteries have mysteries. Harper Lee died in 2016.
Criminal
The Reverend
Casey Sepp's book about Harper Lee and Willie Maxwell is called The Furious Hours, Murder, Fraud, and the Last Trial of Harper Lee. Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nydia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane.
Criminal
The Reverend
Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll join our new membership program, Criminal Plus.
Criminal
The Reverend
Once you sign up, you can listen ad-free to criminal episodes and episodes of our other shows, This Is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery. I just finished reading a new book on Phoebe Reads a Mystery about a detective named Lady Molly who solves crimes at Scotland Yard. I really enjoyed it. To learn more about Criminal Plus, go to thisiscriminal.com slash plus.
Criminal
The Reverend
We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram at criminal underscore podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
The Reverend
Truman Capote published a series of pieces about the clutter murders in The New Yorker, then later expanded them into a book, In Cold Blood. Harper Lee had spent six years helping him research and shape the book, and her role was widely known to the people in Kansas. But Truman Capote never acknowledged that she'd helped report or tell the story.
Criminal
The Reverend
Some people have speculated that he didn't give her credit because he was jealous. To Kill a Mockingbird had made Harper Lee famous. She won both the National Book Award and the Pulitzer Prize. Here she is in 1964.
Criminal
The Reverend
In 1977, people in Alexander City, Alabama, began to see Harper Lee around their towns. A man named Robert Burns had gone to a funeral and shot someone in the head in the middle of the day in front of 300 people. He didn't deny it. His lawyer didn't deny it. And Harper Lee thought it might be time to write her own true crime book. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Criminal
The Reverend
Robert Burns was on trial for the murder of Willie Maxwell. Both men were middle-aged. Both were African-American. Newspapers reported that on his way to jail, Robert Burns told a police officer, I had to do it. And if I had to do it over, I'd do it again. His defense attorney was a man named Tom Radney.
Criminal
The Reverend
In his opening statement, Tom Radney told the jury, We admit he killed him, and we admit he shot him three times, and we admit he died as a result of the gunshot wounds that Robert Louis Burns put in him.
Criminal
The Reverend
Willie Maxwell was a well-known minister. Most people called him Reverend Maxwell, and by the time he was killed in 1977, everyone knew who he was. As one local paper reported, the attraction of the case is expected to be generated more by Reverend Maxwell's life than by his death. Six people who had been close to him had died in seven years. most of them family members.
Criminal
The Reverend
In each case, there were rumors that Reverend Maxwell had been involved, but the police could never prove it. People were afraid of him. He was born in Coosa County, Alabama in 1925. He was drafted into the Army during World War II, where he became a sergeant. When he returned from the war in 1947, segregation limited his access to jobs that paid well.
Criminal
The Reverend
He worked several jobs at once, in the timber industry, at a rock quarry, and in the same textile factory that manufactured the uniforms that he'd worn in the Army. He married a woman named Mary Lou Edwards.
Criminal
The Reverend
Casey Sepp says that Willie Maxwell was gaining a reputation as a charismatic and charming preacher. He was sometimes invited to various congregations and to speak at revivals. He had been ordained in 1962 and went on to get a certificate of theological study from Selma University. On August 3, 1970, he was invited to preach at a revival in the nearby town of Auburn.
Criminal
The Reverend
Reverend Maxwell called Mary Lou's mother and sister. They hadn't seen her. Then he called their next-door neighbor, a woman named Dorcas Anderson, who was very close with Mary Lou. She had seen Mary Lou, but much earlier in the day. Then he called the police. He said he thought his wife may have been in a car accident. He said they might go look on Highway 22.
Criminal
The Reverend
The Maxwells' neighbor, Dorcas Anderson, told police... that Mary Lou Maxwell had been worried and anxious all that day, and that she'd come over that night saying that Willie had called because he'd been in a car accident. Dorcas Anderson told police that Mary Lou said that Willie needed her to go get him. This was the opposite of what the Reverend had told them.
Criminal
The Reverend
No matter how busy we are, even through the holidays, there are small things we can do to maintain our routines, like taking a daily multivitamin. I've been taking rituals essential for women every day, twice a day, for a while now. This might sound funny, but I like the way they look, and I like the way they smell. So many multivitamins are big tablets that don't smell very good.
Criminal
The Reverend
Ritual vitamins are small, easy to take, and smell like mint. It's a much more pleasant way to ensure you're getting nine key nutrients every day, including iron, vitamin D, folate, vitamin B12, and omega-3. The capsules are made with a delayed-release design that basically lets your body absorb what it needs when it needs it.
Criminal
The Reverend
You also don't need to take it with food, so it can fit into your schedule how you see fit. And Ritual is USP-verified. That just means the ingredients listed on the bottle match exactly what's inside. Ritual's Essential for Women 18 Plus is a multivitamin you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com slash criminal.
Criminal
The Reverend
Start Ritual or add Essential for Women 18 Plus to your subscription today. That's ritual.com slash criminal for 25% off. In the weeks after Mary Lou Maxwell's death, Willie Maxwell began to write letters to life insurance companies.
Criminal
The Reverend
Willie Maxwell's trial for the murder of Mary Lou Maxwell began and ended on the same day. He hired a lawyer named Tom Radney to defend him. The neighbor, Dorcas Anderson, was slated to be the star witness because she was the last person to see Mary Lou alive. The prosecution expected her to repeat what she'd told police. But when she took the stand, she told a different story.
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The Reverend
She testified that there was no way Willie Maxwell could have committed the murder. Later, when Dorcas Anderson was called to testify in one of Willie Maxwell's civil lawsuits against a life insurance company, she introduced herself as Dorcas Maxwell.
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The Reverend
This is John Denson. He represented an insurance company in one of Willie Maxwell's civil lawsuits. His job was to prove that if Willie killed Mary Lou, the life insurance policies he'd taken out on her would be invalid.
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The Petition
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Madison tried to go back to school, but she couldn't sleep in the dorm anymore. And so she moved back in with her parents. A few days later, she had her first panic attack. Madison's mother, Mandy, kept thinking about what the county prosecutor told them. I knew he was so terribly wrong. She went back to his office.
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She wanted to talk through the results of Madison's rape kit and her written statement. But the county attorney said the same thing, that he wouldn't bring a rape charge. Bethany College did its own investigation under Title IX. Title IX is a federal civil rights law that was signed by President Nixon in 1972.
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The Petition
This episode contains a detailed description of sexual violence. Please use discretion.
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It prohibits discrimination at schools and colleges based on sex, including sexual harassment and sexual violence. Bethany College found Jared Stolzenberg in violation of its sexual misconduct policy and complaint resolution procedures. He was suspended and later expelled. Was the county attorney's response to Madison unusual?
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The Petition
Justin Boardman is a retired detective and advised Madison and her family on her case. He spent seven years working in a special victims unit in Utah where he would interview victims of rape and domestic violence. But he didn't feel his training had prepared him well. He realized he was approaching victims with the same instincts as he did suspects.
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The Petition
A number of studies have shown that it's normal for victims of sexual assault to act unemotional after they're attacked. They might even forget the details of what happened. They might be able to laugh and joke around.
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The Petition
He says victims of rape also don't always act the way law enforcement expects them to during an attack.
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Justin Boardman left law enforcement. He started to run trainings for other police officers on how to better understand people who report sexual assault and violence. But most people never go to the police in cases of rape, and most rape cases don't end with a conviction. In the United States, it's less than 1%.
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One study funded by the National Institute of Justice analyzed thousands of rape cases across the country to figure out why they weren't resolved through a jury trial. The principal investigator of the study said, quote, a lot of times detectives felt like they had really good, solid cases with enough evidence to make an arrest, but prosecutors declined to go forward.
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The study found cases where prosecutors declined moving forward based on their own sense of a victim's credibility. It found that some prosecutors thought a jury was less likely to convict if alcohol or other, quote, risky behaviors were involved. Prosecutors also seemed less likely to pursue so-called he-said-she-said cases.
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The Petition
The county attorney in Madison's case told the Associated Press that sex crimes are, quote, extremely challenging to prosecute because the jury looks for, quote, that CSI type of evidence. In September 2019, over a year after Madison first met with the county attorney, she learned that he had decided to charge Jared Stolzenberg with aggravated battery for strangling her.
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Madison Smith grew up in Lindsburg, Kansas. Lindsburg is a small town with just under 4,000 people.
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He told the Washington Post, quote, Jared Stolzenberg pleaded guilty. He received two years probation. We reached out to Jared Stolzenberg for this episode, and he told us, quote, He went on to say, quote, At the sentencing hearing, Madison said she felt grateful for some sort of conviction, but she told the judge, quote, I feel angry that he was not charged for the sexual side of this.
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The Petition
Madison and her family weren't ready to let it go. A few months before, Madison's mother had heard Justin Boardman on a podcast.
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The Petition
Mandy and Justin eventually met in person, and he started to help Madison and her family think about other ways she could have a chance to present a rape charge to a jury. Then they came across an old law in Kansas.
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The Petition
The law was used during Prohibition by people who wanted to investigate bars that kept serving liquor, while state officials seemed to look the other way. In the last few decades, it's also been used by anti-abortion activists to go after clinics. Kansas is one of only six states where citizens can petition to do this, as long as they collect a certain number of signatures.
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Which means Madison would need signatures from 329 registered voters to convene a grand jury.
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While Madison thought about whether she wanted to use the old law, she said she heard about another woman in town. She said she'd also been raped and had also wanted to take her case to trial, but said that she'd heard the same thing from the county attorney.
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Some of the people who walked by knew Madison and her family, but a lot of people didn't know anything at all. The streamers and balloons worked to get people to stop.
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Madison and her family stood outside the hair salon for six hours, telling people what had happened.
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Madison says they collected just under 200 signatures that day. They still needed over 100 more. And over the next few days, if Madison or her family heard of anyone who was willing to sign, they would go to meet them, wherever they were.
Criminal
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Eventually, they got the full 329, and they sent their petition to the district for review. But just a few weeks later, they learned it was rejected.
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Madison remembers that around this time, she'd heard about another person who'd heard the same thing from the county attorney's office about their rape case.
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Madison liked living in Lindsberg, but when she started looking at colleges, she thought about leaving Kansas.
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The Petition
Since Madison had already told her story to hundreds of people to collect their signatures for her first petition, she and her mother decided to reach out to some of them again.
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The Petition
Madison was babysitting for a family friend when she found out that the state had accepted her second petition. How long had it been at that point?
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The Petition
A grand jury was summoned to hear Madison's testimony in October 2021. Fifteen jurors were selected, just as they would be for a district court. They were given instructions by the district court. Their job was to determine, quote, whether the facts support allegations warranting a true bill of indictment.
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The Petition
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Madison remembers that the jury wrote down their questions on a piece of paper and gave them to an attorney to ask her. She said they asked why she felt like an additional charge needed to be brought beyond the aggravated battery charge. They asked her to recount the night again. They asked if she had gone to therapy. She testified in front of the jury for almost an hour.
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Her mother had to wait outside. And when her mother testified, Madison had to wait outside too. The rest of the proceedings were kept confidential, so they don't know who else testified, but they said they heard that the grand jury also questioned Jared Stolzenberg and the county attorney who declined to bring a rape charge.
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The police officer who'd first taken Madison's statement told her that he'd testified. After Madison appeared before the grand jury, she went back to her job at a local health clinic. About two weeks later, she got the jury's decision.
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Instead, Madison went to Bethany College, a small Christian school three blocks from her house. She planned to study biology, and she made a good group of friends. They did game nights every Wednesday and studied in the dorm together after classes.
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The grand jury's decision didn't come with an explanation. Madison had already graduated from Bethany College. She'd gotten married to her boyfriend, and they'd moved into their own house a few minutes away from her parents. She felt ready to move on with her life. She told the Washington Post, From the very beginning, I have said I want my day in court, and I got it.
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Even though it didn't go the way I hoped, I know I tried as much as I could. Today, she's almost done with nursing school.
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Madison says she wants to start a mobile SANE-SART unit that can go to small towns so victims don't have to travel. The nurse who did her SANE exam was one of the first people she felt comfortable with after what happened. She says she still thinks about how the nurse made her laugh. piano plays softly Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer.
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Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. This episode was mixed by Emma Munger. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
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On February 11, 2018, during her second semester of her first year, Madison spent the day with her parents and friends and then headed back to the dorm.
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We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show and Instagram at criminal underscore podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
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The Petition
She saw a text from one of her friends, Alana. Madison went to Alana's room and told her what happened.
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In 2021, Jared Stolzenberg told the BBC that he regretted what happened. He said he had been rough with Madison. He said he was, quote, new to sex and wanted to try a, quote, sexual kink he'd seen online. He said he was, quote, stupid to try it, but he maintained that it had been consensual. After she read Alana's message, Madison told her parents she'd be coming home for dinner.
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Alana came with her. When they got to her house, Madison's father was in the driveway. Her mother was on the way. Madison wanted to wait and tell them at the same time. She remembers watching her mother walk up the driveway.
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Mandy Smith, Madison's mother. Madison's father had been a police officer and asked her if they could call the chief of police. Madison said yes. The family sat around the dining room table, waiting. An officer arrived to take her statement. She also gave him the written account she'd made the night before in Alana's room.
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The police officer who came to their house asked if Madison wanted to take a SANE-SART exam. SANE stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner, and SART is Sexual Assault Response Team. During an exam, evidence is collected for a rape kit. Madison said yes.
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Madison remembers liking the nurse who did her exam. She made her feel comfortable. She even made her laugh. A SANE exam can take hours and can include taking samples of DNA from all over a victim's body, from fingernails, mouth, and genitals. The nurse noted in Madison's exam that she had bruising on her neck and the back of her throat. Madison decided she wanted to press charges.
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People convicted of rape in Kansas are added to a public registry. She says that was important to her. She had a meeting scheduled with the county attorney to talk about what would happen next.
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When Madison met with the county attorney, she brought her parents. But when they got to the office, the attorney asked to speak with Madison alone.
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We reached out to the county attorney for clarification and didn't hear back. Madison remembers he explained that because the sex had started consensually and Madison never verbally withdrew consent, he would not prosecute what had happened as rape. Madison thought that didn't seem right. She says his hands had been around her throat and she couldn't speak.
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But without the county attorney prosecuting, Madison's case couldn't go anywhere. So they left.
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